We will call this meeting to order. Can you  please stand for the pledge of allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the  United States of America and to the republic   for which it stands, one nation under God,  indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Madame clerk, can you please call the   first item? Approve the minutes of the  regular meeting, September 16th, 2025.   Are there any items to be edited or removed? I see  none. I move to approve the minutes for September   16th, 2025. Second. Motion and a second. Any  further discussion? I see none. All those in   favor say I. I. All those opposed, same sign.  Motion passes. 6. Madame clerk, please call the   next item. Public agenda. The public agenda allows  for up to five speakers to have five minutes each   to address the council. No action will be taken  relative to items on the public agenda other than   the referral to the city manager for information  as necessary. Speakers will please state their   name and address for the record. A time clock  will display the speaker's remaining time to   speak. Ordered rules of decorum will be observed.  We did have a speaker Faith Martin this morning,   but she emailed me and advised she will  not be here this morning. Thank you,   clerk. We will now open it up for anyone in the  community who would like to address the council.   You can just move to the mic, state your name, and  you will have five minutes to address the council. Good morning, council. Thank you for allowing me  to speak this morning. My name is Eric Hargrade.   I am with Fountain of Life Ministries and  uh representing the Dad's Care 2 program.   I wanted to come and talk to you all about the  family builders conference which is held this   weekend on the 19th and 20th. We were able to  get together a lot of community involved leaders,   other organizations that can provide support  to our dads. uh we have a uh a program that   has been working since 2008 where we have been uh  addressing the needs of the fathers uh that are   uh disadvantaged and can uh or people coming out  of re-entry. So we were able to talk about a lot   of key subjects uh that are plaguing the city uh  kids going into foster care, people coming out of   incarceration and not having a foot forward. Uh so  we have built a a program that can bring together   501c3s and different agencies in order to address  these issues. Um so uh over uh a lot of fathers   uh some service providers, educators and  policy makers sat and talked in discussions   uh surrounding uh re-entry and fatherhood support,  co-parenting and maternal collaboration uh system   change and agency um readiness and trauma-informed  care and mental health. Uh the conference created   space for collaboration for healing and commitment  to building stronger family systems through   father focused l through a father focused lens uh  through our father empower fatherhood empowerment   initiative. Dadare 2 delivers a 12-week  trauminfor program centered around fragile   families curriculum with our partners out in DC  the national partnership of community leaders.   Um each cohort provides weekly classes facilitated  by the certified uh certified peer leaders. So   we train all of our fathers that are mentors in  trauma informed uh trauma-informed care. Uh and   they are all certified. We also have case managers  for different organizations like the abundance   joy of uh therapy and um other organizations that  provide mental health counseling to our fathers.   We also have financial counseling uh financial  uh literacy classes that we offer to the people   so that they can start to stabilize themselves  financially. Uh we also have housing programs   so that if they need housing or anything we could  partner with the max center we partner with other   housing agencies so that we can get them stable  housing so that their kids have somewhere to   come back to. Our system of care referrals also  offer job training through the TRIO program and   other partners that offer free job training uh for  people so that they can get skills needed so they   can get adequate jobs for um taking care of their  family. Our intention is to serve those that are   justice involved, unemployed and underrepresented  fathers aiming to heal generational trauma and   foster resilience. As I look ahead in 2026, we  want to include the council. We want to include   the city in our decisions as we move forward to  take care of these issues and do them together and   not in silos. Uh we include more citywide agencies  and state level partners. We want to elevate the   youth focused content expanding collaboration  with our school system in USD 259 as we partner   with prime fit who's in most of the schools in 259  so we can provide mentoring mentors for those kids   that are borderline and family engagement panels  to foster unity across parent roles because we   can't have the fathers to build up without those  mothers supporting them and getting them stable so   that they can be good fathers to their children.  We anticipate doubling our attendance next year   and deepening the strategic alliance to create a  true father-friendly Witchah. How can you support?   Uh we invite local leaders, funders, and city  agencies to collaborate on our 2026 planning,   sponsor cohort-based programs for justice involved  and underserved fathers. We want to help amplify   fatherhood narratives across Witchah systems  and join our system of care referral network.   So we work also with the uh the um homeless  coalition with the um with uh United Way and   try to collaborate more than uh just uh compete.  So having the 501c3s that are providing each of   these services, it's key that we pull together  to make this thing happen for fathers that are   hurting within this community. We want to draw  down those numbers of kids that are in foster   care and be involved to contact those dads when  those kids are in this situation so that we can   make sure that we put those kids not in a foster  home but with their families where they belong.   Thank you. Thank you very much, Eric. And I know  that Dennis is here as well. Um I was the one who   asked the two of them to share. Uh, Chief Sullivan  and I both attended the family conference this   past Saturday and I just want to say thank you  for hosting that workshop which was free to the   community. So my question really is uh centered  around the 12week program. Can you share if   anyone in the community can take part in this and  what's the cost to the community member? Yes. Uh,   so we do hold the 12week class at the Urban League  currently. The new class starts October the 2nd.   It is free to the fathers. Uh we do feed them,  bring them in, have an hour and a half class   going over different subjects, anger management,  relationship building, things like that. Uh for   the 12week course, again, it is at no cost to the  father. Um we are going to start October the 2nd   and we are looking to have 15 to 20 fathers in  this next cohort. And if people are interested,   whom shall they contact and how can they learn  more? Um so if you're if you are interested in   it you can go to our website dadscare2.com uh  to sign up. We also have uh the number 5301723 that is our contact number and they can  email contact atthefountainlife.com. Thank you very much. appreciate the work that  you guys are doing and again um appreciate that   this is a free service to community members  who may want to attend these free workshops   um and again for strengthening families but more  particularly fathers. Thank you very much and   again thank you again for coming by and speaking  with us. Uh that was very wellreceived and a lot   of people enjoyed having someone there to listen  to their issues. So, thank you for talking   directly to the dads that were there um because  they really really appreciated being listened   to about their concerns in regard to being able  to reestablish themselves here in Witchah. Yes,   sir. Uh quick question. Um you had talked about  kids who are in the foster care system having   their dads alerted to any situations. Have you had  that dialogue with DCF and what's their thoughts?   I know they're pushing for the kinship. I'm  trying to make sure kids stay within kinship. So,   what's their reception been to that ask?  We have worked closely with DCF. Uh,   I'm going to allow my founder, Dennis Fonoy,  to answer that question if I can. Good morning. again. Good morning. And yes, we do work with  DCF. Uh we've worked on several projects with   uh Director D. We've over the few years that we  have uh been doing this work. We worked at KCSL.   Uh we worked on the statewide boards, the IAB  boards, St. Francis. We helped initiate the team   decision makingaking uh uh program with NDCF which  allows for both sides of the family to sit down,   mediate, negotiate, and work out a a plan  between the two families for those kids to   go to either either family. Okay. Thank you. You  guys are doing great work. I I really appreciate   the work you're doing. Please reach out and let  us know how we can help you guys in the future.   Thank you. Thank you. Would anyone else from  the community like to address the council? You   may just come to the microphone. Please state  your name and the district you live in. Please Steve Randall, District 1. There is a petition  or I guess option to have a short-term rental   at 226 South Pinerest. Um, it was, I guess, put  forth on the 9th of September and it said that   there would be a 3-w week time period there  before it would be voted on. And apparently   on the 12th it was approved. And then from that,  which was a Thursday, you have until the 26th to   either approve or disapprove as a neighbor,  which leaves very little time to uh submit   this very formal letter that you have to do. Um,  knowing that we have a new procedure based on an   event in that same neighborhood, Crown Heights on  Baton Street. Apparently, this owner is the who's   applying is the same owner of that house where the  incident occurred. And so, I'm just curious of the   fact that it says that it's going to take three  weeks to approve. It was approved in three days.   And then now the owners have very little time to  notify council members, city council on whether   it gets fully approved. And I understand that, you  know, you all are talking about transparency. This   just doesn't seem very transparent. It seems very  convenient to uh quickly act on approving someone   who clearly has a history. So thank you. Thank  you, Steve. Can city manager have someone from   staff address how the rental program works and  the procedure for this specific property? Mayor,   I I don't see anyone from planning here. Um the um  the gentleman is correct. The neighbors do have a   a protest period of time uh before uh short-term  rental approval is finalized. I we'll go ahead   and circle back with property owner. If he could  leave his contact information with the city clerk,   that would be helpful. Mr. Randall, can  you please um provide your You can come   up to the clerk and provide that contact and  the city manager will connect you directly. Would anyone else from the community  like to address the council? Ellie,   I see none. We'll bring it back to the bench. I'll wait until the city clerk is ready. Madame clerk, can you please call the next  item? Consent agenda items 1 through 11.   Council members, any items to be pulled? I see  none. I move to approve consent agenda items 1   through 11. Second motion and a second.  Any further discussion? I see none. All   those in favor say I. I. All those opposed,  same sign. Motion passes. 70. Madame clerk,   please call the next item. Order and  contract dated September 22nd, 2025. Mayor, would you mind delaying this item  so we move on to public improvements? No   problem. Madame clerk, can you please call the  next item? Petitions for public improvements. Sorry. Thank you. Good morning, mayor, city  council members. Paul Gumpleman, public works and   utilities for the record. This morning I have  a couple petitions for your consideration. The   signatures on the petitions represent 100% of the  improvement districts and the petitions are valid   per Kansas statute. Area 151 edition located in  district 5. On June 6th, 2023, the city council   approved water, sewer, and sanitary sewer and  paving improvements required for a new residential   development. The developer has submitted  revised petitions with revised budgets to   reflect current market conditions and Clear Creek  third edition located in district 2. On June 6th,   2023, the city council approved water and sewer  improvements required for a new residential   development. developer has submitted revised  petitions with revised budgets to reflect current   market conditions. It is recommended that the city  council approve the revised petitions and budgets,   adopt the amending resolutions, and authorize  the necessary signatures. And as a reminder,   these are paid by special assessment. Thank you,  Paul. Any questions for staff? I see none. I move   to approve the petitions for public improvements.  Second motion and a second. Any further   discussion? I see none. All those in favor say I.  I. All those opposed, same sign. Motion passes 70. We'll madame clerk, can you  please call the next item? Council member appointments and comments. We'll  start with council member agenda. Um any council   member agenda items that council members would  like to bring up. I will bring up a topic. Um this   is one that I've been asking uh the city manager  for updates. The new or revised um illegal camping   ordinance went into effect January of this year.  It has now had several months uh in operation.   I would like to get a status report regarding  this ordinance, how it's being carried out. Uh,   in particular, I have a question regarding um  what is deemed as um a safety hazard when it   comes to sidewalks. Uh just last week, we had a  conversation regarding the size of sidewalks. U   most sidewalks around the city of Witchaw um  are around the four to six feet in width. Um,   and usually wheelchairs are about three feet. Um,  so I wanted to know what constitutes a immediate   removal of a camping site that is blocking  a sidewalk or what is considered blocking a   sidewalk. Uh, thank you, mayor. Um, if it's all  right with you, what I'd like to do is have law   department talk a little bit about the ordinance  that you adopted. Um I'll ask Sharon to to address   that and then ask the police department to talk  about how they have been um working with the new   ordinance and then I'd like uh park and recreation  to talk about the actual encampment work that they   have done, the cleanup work they've done since  January. So we'll start with Sharon. Thank you. Mayor, city council, in reference to your first  question, Mayor Woo, we do have city ordinances   dealing with loitering and blocking access to  and from certain buildings. Um, generally those   ordinances require the person to be given the  opportunity to move or disperse. If they fail to   do that, then they can be cited with a violation.  um the ordinances that were passed regarding   illegal camping setup as I think you know a  two-tiered system allowing for immediate cleanup   in areas where um it is more disruptive to the  community on the sidewalks ingress to buildings   um areas that it is unsafe to camp under vios  in flood areas um and those types of specific   areas that were specified in the ordinance Um PD  has been working on cleaning up those areas. Um   I think that there were and I'm not want to speak  for the chief about 180 um uh incidents where they   made contact with uh campers and and I think there  needs to be a distinction made between loitering   camping um and being there with your items for  lack of a better way to say it. Um, camping there   there has to be an intent to sleep or to stay or  to camp as that term is defined by the ordinance.   Um, loitering would be the offense which would  be most applicable to if they are blocking access   on the sidewalk and there's not a clear pathway  through the sidewalk. And if Oh, go ahead. Quick   followup to that question. You had just said that  a distinction needs to be made. Does that need to   be codified or is that a distinction in terms of  interpretation or does that need to be codified   in the ordinance? I I think it's a expectation um  clarification. I mean that we are limited on what   we can do. Um homelessness as a status cannot be  criminalized. Um it's not a crime to walk downtown   or sit on a bench or even sleep on a bench. Um,  however, once you get into the arena of I have   items that I am blocking people's access, I can't  get to the building. I can't use the sidewalk from   an ADA accommodation. I can't get the wheelchair  down the sidewalk. At that point, then you are   reaching over into an area where there are  ordinances that would apply to those specific   situations. So, more specifically, um I actually  was downtown on Saturday and underneath um the   railroad tracks on Douglas, uh there were several  individuals with items uh with the intention to   sleep. And the question then I had was, is that  um is our ordinance allowing that to continue? Um,   we've seen multiple individuals underneath that  overpass. Um, and there was a fire that actually   remnants of that fire were evident. I have photos  of this. So, that becomes a safety risk. Um,   and I know that our officers are already very busy  working with actual emergency calls. Um, but I   don't want this to become a fire hazard. Um, what  can we as a council do to make it more specific,   especially in areas like that underpass on Douglas  Street right next to NASCAR? I think you have the   legal ordinances in place. Um, because we do  not allow camping under bridges or vioadox. Um,   we allow immediate cleanup for those specific  areas. Um, I think you're you're looking at an   enforcement and staffing um process um as to  how resources are allocated and and the chief   or Captain Moses are going to need to address  that issue. But but the framework is there.   Um it's just a matter of getting those violations  enforced and PD can't be everywhere all the time.   Um and what is the priority for their resources  but but the framework is there in my opinion.   Do we also could there also be a more specific  um I think right now I'm I'm really talking   about the downtown core, not necessarily other  areas of the community. Um I saw a a mo a mother   uh with a a baby stroller that was afraid  to walk underneath there. Thankfully,   we were walking in a group and so she kind of  walked with us. So that makes me um that concerns   me knowing that people might feel unsafe.  And so I want to know what we can do. Could   there be a a more specific ordinance regarding  just the central business district, the Smid,   or just that core right there? You could look at  ordinances specific to the downtown core area.   you would need to establish some rational basis  for treating that area different than others. So,   is it a is there a legal or factual distinction  walking under a bridge in downtown where there's   people under or walking in a bridge in West  Witchah where there's people under the bridge?   We would need to have a justification for treating  the downtown differently than um other areas. Um,   we could look at perhaps some guidelines or some  ordinances, especially ingress and egress. Um,   but but again, being is not a crime. Being  there is not a crime. And I understand that   we want folks in downtown Wolf to feel safe. Um,  we just need to make make certain that we comply   with those legal requirements and recognize what  is and is not illegal. But there but there are   things that we could look at, especially  ingress and egress to public businesses,   private buildings, um, that we could look  at revising if that was the direction. So,   what I hear you saying is that our ordinances are  in place, but the enforcement of it may not be to   the level that we're able to maintain and enforce  the entire ordinances. So, the language is there,   but the enforcement it may not be there. I'm not  I can't speak. I'm not quite sure that's what   Sharon's saying. What I'd like is Captain Moses to  talk about two things. First of all, since we're   talking about downtown and this situation, I'd  like him to talk about our general enforcement uh   work and what um hot and community police officers  are doing on issues uh that impact the homeless.   And then also, if you would after that, talk  about enforcement of the encampment ordinance. Oh,   can I can I butt in really quick for a second? I  want to make sure too that we're considering that   our footprint has been reduced right now at Second  Light because of capacity. And so maybe you can   make sure that we're addressing that correctly if  we can't offer them a space at Second Light. They   can camp at some capacity. Correct. Uh no, Camping  is still illegal. So we would still be able to   clean up a camp. What we can't do is cite someone  for a violation of the ordinance. That's how the   ordinance is written if there's no shelter space.  Now, we're working closely with Second Light and   other uh and United Way on some things moving  into the winter season. Um specifically like   an application that our officers would be able to  use that shows available shelter space across the   system. Uh I just learned about that yesterday.  So, that's something that will definitely help us   uh moving into the winter months. uh specifically  related to uh in enforcement of the ordinance. The   manager was correct. We have 184 cases since  April 1st, which is when we uh created this   case classification to track this where officers  have uh engaged with and educated someone about   or cleaned up or sent to to uh parks a cleanup  request for a camp. So, it's 184 across the city.   Majority of those are in the downtown uh core area  or or along the river uh but mostly focused in the   downtown area. The homeless outreach team uh  themselves uh in the last month have had 147   dispatched calls, 52 selfinitiated calls, um 486  unhoused person contacts, and 98 911 hot requests.   uh they've received compliance related to  the camping ordinance 76 times. And that's   something that I wanted to highlight is uh  just because we're not citing people for   violating the ordinance doesn't mean we're not out  enforcing and educating about the ordinance. We   generally see voluntary compliance when it comes  to the unlawful campaign ordinance. when we tell   someone you are in violation. Um, specifically  related to the concern downtown on Douglas,   I think it's important to reflect back on what  what Sharon said. Just being is not a violation   of the ordinance. And that's where our officers  have to go out and make a judgment call. Are is   this person just being? Are they just there uh  with their things? And if that's the case, then   I don't think that's a violation of the unlawful  camping ordinance. Uh if they are there and they   are sleeping or if they are there and there is  a tent or a box or some other uh evidence that   they are intend to camp, then yes, that would be  a violation of the ordinance. Um our general focus   is on tier one camps uh due to due to bandwidth  and staffing. That's really what we're focused on.   Especially the homeless outreach team is focused  on tier one camps. Um, having a camp on a sidewalk   itself does not make that camp a tier one camp.  Uh, based on my reading of the ordinance and I I   feel well, I'll let the council make make the law.  Obviously, we just enforce it. But at this point,   a camp on a sidewalk is not a tier one camp. Um,  can you share what tier one is? Just so everybody   in the room knows, there's a list I have it on  my computer. There's a list in the ordinance that   that that talk about immediate removal camps and  anything under that list under immediate removal   would be what we are considering a tier one. Uh  and I think that also is an important distinction   for us to talk about. Immediate removal simply  means we can if staff is available clean up that   camp right then and there. there is going to be  a natural delay in getting those camps cleaned up   as we coordinate with park staff to get them  out there to clean up that camp. But again,   we generally see voluntary compliance. The area  around Second Light is a great example. Um,   for a while there were camps to the west of Second  Light around along that sidewalk. Um and the chief   and I ourselves go out and check that area on  a regular basis and we haven't seen camps there   in weeks because of the education campaign that  we've been doing and gaining voluntary compliance.   Captain Moses, um so in my particular situation,  this would have been Saturday evening. This is   underneath a bridge um again between Navascar Park  and Union Station and the intent was sleeping as   one of the individuals was sleeping literally.  Um so in that situation uh can you address how   the council would how the council or any community  member would then contact police? Should they call   911? Should they call HOT? I know that HOT is not  a 247 uh team. Can you address how we should be   um addressing these? Yes. Uh mayor, so there are  multiple avenues in which to report an illegal   camp. One of which is 911. Uh we've educated all  of our officers on the unlawful camping ordinance   and the case uh to case classification to use to  track all of that uh and how to refer camps to the   parks department. So any officer can go out and  investigate a report of unlawful camping through   a complaint made to 911. Now all of our calls into  emergency communications are entered on a priority   basis. A report of unlawful camping would likely  be entered as a suspicious character uh which is   a level three call for service. So anything  higher priority obviously would be dispatched   first. Um so there may be a little bit delayed  response time in getting to check that camp,   but that is one way to report them. Another  way to report them is through the Cclick Fix   app. Um those those reports are referred directly  to the homeless outreach team. Uh and they follow   up on those based on essentially a list and they  focus on the what look like tier one camps first.   Um but again there's an inherent delay there  in when the homeless outreach team is working   uh and and their capacity to get uh to those  reports. So there's really two distinct ways to   file a report on on a unlawful camp and it would  be to call 911 or enter a complaint through Cclick   Fix. Thank you. Um and just so that everyone is  aware you mentioned tier one public property. Uh   the areas include in or under bridges, overpasses,  and or highways within 50 feet of bus shelters,   medians, roadways, highways, traffic circles,  roundabouts, railways, bike paths, walking trails,   wastewater delivery systems, water delivery  systems, electric substations, or communication   transmission systems within 20 ft of any doorway,  loading dock, elevator, stairway, or fire escapes   located on public or private property. Any land  deemed dangerous by virtue of contamination. Any   land used for flood control, including the big  ditch within 500 feet of playground equipment,   schools, or child care facilities.  Whether such playground equipment, school,   and childcare facilities are located on public  or private property. Within 500 feet of property   being utilized as the multi- agency center within  500 feet of a public or private swimming pool,   splash pad or private or public golf course.  Inside or within 100 ft of park pavilions,   community centers or park shelters, or inside or  within 100 ft of a public restroom. Those are all   deemed tier one properties. I have a followup to  that real fast. This might be a sharing question,   too. When we're talking about sidewalks, are we  not defining sidewalks as walking trails or bike   paths? Are those codified differently in law? So,  I would imagine a sidewalk is a walking trail. The ordinance prohibits camping on  public property or public rightway. Um,   public rideway is defined as the area from the  property line to the property line, including   I'm going to skip some areas designed or used for  vehicle or pedestrian traffic and the area between   the roadway and property line. Um, so it it is  the sidewalk and the sidewalk and curb would be   within that definition of public rightway. Okay.  So that would be one of the tier one. Yes. Okay.   Yes. Um question for Captain Moses as well. Um  is it lack of resources at times for enforcement? I I want to be careful how I answer that question.  So we're actively working on on rebuilding the   staffing within our department. You all know that  we're getting closer and closer to our authorized   strength every day. Uh the chief has had  conversations, I believe, with each of you about   what that means and what that doesn't mean. Uh our  priority remains emergency calls for service. Um   when people's lives are in danger, that's going  to continue to be our priority. Um I think there   is an opportunity for a much larger discussion  about what the right response to homelessness,   unhoused individuals, and unlawful camping is.  Is that an immediate is that an initial response   from a police officer or not? Are there other  resources that should go out and contact these   individuals and offer assistance, transportation  to shelter? Probably. Uh we know that people don't   take our offers for help because we're in a police  car and we're in a police uniform. Um you know,   we put ourselves in the shoes of unhoused  individuals and you have a police officer   who shows up, our job is to enforce the law and we  say, "Get in our police car. We're going to take   you to a shelter." It's not the most welcoming  response, right? Um, so there's an opportunity   for a much larger discussion there, I think,  about how we're delivering resources to unhoused   individuals and the right coordinated response to  unlawful camping. Simply enforcing the ordinance   and citing people for violating the camping  ordinance, I think, uh, is missing a key aspect   of that of that community outreach aspect and  offering resources to unhoused individuals. Um,   so it's not as simple as saying it's a resource  issue. We we have rebuilt the homeless outreach   team to full strength. Um, as we've continued  to recruit and have larger academy classes,   they can only go so many places at once. Um, and  like I said, our officers, our patrol officers   are going to continue to remain focused on uh  violent crime, crime prevention, um, and ensuring   the safety of of the community. Now, uh, unlawful  camping does have the potential to cause danger   through fires or other, uh, issues, but generally  our our focus is going to be on on victimization   of our community. Well, so that leads to one  last followup I have at least for now. Um is   and this might be a question for Sally saying if  Sally is here, but where is housing in this? Um   do they go to each call that's made um what is  the coordination between the police department   and housing? Because I would like housing to be  at a lot of these calls to plug people in with   resources. And so I don't know if Sally is here  or not. I do not see her. Steve is here also.   Steve B. What I'd like to do if if if you gave  the chief an hour, he would talk about the role   of social services, about support services, and  that the police are really kind of the last line   of defense, so to speak. So we, this council has  committed 8 million for the construction of Second   Light, 5 million for continued operations so that  we do provide a much more comprehensive approach   to dealing with these with issues for our homeless  residents and the underlying causes and things   that are keeping people from being successful  in being rehoused. Um, Sally can talk a little   bit if you'd like about what's happening in that  realm. I'd like Steve to talk about an approach,   Steve and Sally talk about an approach that we  think is going to make a difference as well. Um,   besides having outreach teams, this is we have a  a very specific pilot project that is having some   success and I'd like to talk about that as well  because ultimately that's where we want to go u in   terms of getting people rehoused. Well, I want to  thank you for saying that too. We have committed   significant resources and tangibly or anecdotally  I haven't seen change in the streets and so with   the amount of resources we have I want to see hard  numbers of if there are changes in the streets   because if we're committing this many resources  I want to make sure the outcome is to get people   off the streets and I see that I I'll just be  honest you're not going to see it immediately   right we've got it's going to take a while we  won't be fully operational until the end of the   year at MAC and even then only about 90% capacity  but then we'll have room for the agencies that are   going to be providing the services. We still have  beds currently that we did not have prior to this.   Correct. So, we still do have additional beds  that were beds. We have shelter beds and those   are reduced today because of the construction  and I think uh council member Ballard referenced   that. But let me let me have housing address what  I think is some systematic ways that we're trying   to tackle this. City manager, before we move to  housing, can I just ask this simple question? Um,   the intention is not to site individuals who  are unhoused with an additional legal hurdle.   Can you just address how many actual citations  have been issued since the revised ordinance? I   believe the answer is zero. I'm glad that was  brought up. A lot of this conversation, I was   just listening. It's it's a bit troubling to me  because when we talk about downtown, we know what   happened with the emergency shelter in District  1 and a lot of the conversation was a concern   about seeing homeless people being homeless. Um,  mayor, you talked about somebody being sleep.   um while someone was scared to push their stroller  by someone's sleep. We we this conversation from   what I've gathered is literally we are still  seeing too many unhoused people and I think that   that's just a bit of a concern as we even talked  about codifying ways to get unhoused people off   of a sidewalk which is the public right away.  Our real conversation should be how do we get   the legislature to invest resources into more  of the things we need when we talk about open   beds at Second Light. If you've talked to any  unhoused people, often times there's a distrust   of going even into something like Second Light.  They haven't had positive experiences in shelters   or they may know that there's just too many  people in there for them or they may not want to   be around a lot of folks. And until we can engage  like Officer Nate does, hold hands, let's talk,   let's build trust. This is a trust trustworthy  space. It doesn't matter that we put millions   of dollars into a space if we haven't had that  trust built yet. And we're going to continue to   see unhoused people until they feel safe enough,  until they have enough trust to go into a space.   It doesn't matter what resources we share if we  don't build trust first. hand, there's not enough   resources because Second Light is just one piece  of the equation. We've seen what 5,000 mental   health beds lost since the '90s because the state  legislature won't fund those things. And while   they're trying to with the mental health hospital,  that's only 100 beds. I mean, there needs to be   significant investment. And it's not just the city  of Witchah that has to do that. That's federally,   that's state, and we're not seeing that. And until  we collectively talk about that problem with our   state partners and not just we're seeing too many  unhoused people, um I don't see a real solution   there, even if we tripled the size of the homeless  outreach team. If the unhoused folks don't trust   that, if they don't want to be in that space,  there's going to be a few people who are going   to move through that and go from being unhoused  to housed. But so many people are one paycheck   away from being homeless. And I just feel like  this this conversation started with and currently   lacks compassion for the humanity of somebody who  is unhoused right now. And truly, we need more of   the resources to build that trust to to try to  find more spaces almost like a cure violence.   As Captain Moses talked about, cure violence can  connect to young people in ways that WPD cannot.   And outside of the homeless outreach team, we need  stronger partnerships with the justice together or   other organizations that are going to go out there  and engage with our unhoused community and build   that trust and try to walk them through these  processes. I didn't agree with the ordinance that   we passed, but it is passed and I think any pushes  to codify more specific definitions of sidewalks   and all of that looks to criminalize homelessness.  While we haven't cited it, there's the opportunity   to criminalize that and say that you can be  cited for this. You you have to do this. Too   many people see you sitting here tired or sleep on  the sidewalk. You need to move rather than what's   your name? What's your story? How can I help  you? Let me get you to a place where you can   get something to eat. Let's start talking about  some of the challenges you face and how we can   help you. There's not enough of that. and too many  reaching out to us to further try to codify things   to force people from being seen. And I think being  unhoused reminds us the failures of society. And   some people just don't want to see that. And I  think we need to do more work to help and get more   state or federal resources rather than look to  codify our own ordinances or try to get police to   not focus on what they're focusing on and try to  get somebody who's sleeping to wake up and move so   that other people just feel better about downtown.  Well, we have a law specifically that says you   cannot camp. that it's not about um not being  compassionate about individuals who are facing   homelessness. It is about having public spaces  that are open for the entire public. If a mother   and her child do not feel safe because someone is  sleeping and blocking a portion of the sidewalk,   that is a concern. That is a concern. And it's not  because um of seeing homelessness, but rather it   is a concern for both the individual because  the individual who's sleeping there because I   would love to connect them to Second Light and  have that space for them or this was a male so   they could have gone to Union Rescue Mission  which is our men's shelter here in Witchah.   So, if that is not where we're at, then is the  $13 million that we are investing into a shelter   plus services really going to work? If if people  are too afraid to go to a shelter, is this really   going to work? Then then we need to ask, are we  investing wrongly into this? It's going to work   for the people that are ready. And there needs  to be a balance of the two. enforcement of law   and compassion, bringing people to the resources.  If we're capacity of 120 beds and it's full, where   is it acceptable for people to go besides Union  Rescue Mission? Where is it acceptable for them   to camp if we can't offer them a bed? And I'd just  like to jump in. I'm on the Union Rescue Mission   board and we had our board meeting last night and  this was a topic of much discussion because we are   very worried as a board and staff that um because  of the la the less beds that we have at Second   Light that more people will come to Union Rescue  Mission and they have a limited capacity too. Um   they certainly want to serve everyone but they  also want to be more than a shelter. They want   to serve people with program um and so this is a  it's a community issue. It's not just, you know,   shifting bodies from one place to another. I just  want to just add in my two cents. Um, last week,   Commissioner How and I actually got to go to the  uh Haven for Hope in San Antonio and two of the   premises. Um, we were both struck by uh how  clean the area was, how efficient it was. Uh,   65% of people that go through the program  do not return. They get into stable housing.   uh something like that is the goal because until  then regardless of what we do and I understand   the safety concerns too because I feel it  in my district I think as much or more than   anybody else on council. Um but we are just  playing whackable and we have to realize that   uh with limited bed space you can't if you force  somebody into there again it fills up the space   and there's still going to be people out there  we don't have enough bed space for the people   out there. So, the long-term solution has to be  the investment into the MAC, into Second Light,   making sure we get as many providers in there as  we can, making sure that that is as efficient as   we can. That way, when we do start cleaning up and  um enforcing some of these campsites, there is a   end solution for it as opposed to right now where  it's people pick up and they move somewhere else.   I know every time we go into somewhere and we  empty out um encampments that are deep in some of   the wooded areas, uh South Broadway for example,  it just pops up so much more in areas like that   in around my district. And again, it has to be  about the long-term solution. So again, if we keep   cleaning up campsites and I again I understand we  do need to get to a lot of these that are public   health hazards, but we have to keep our foot on  the gas towards the ultimate solution here, which   is getting people back into housing and addressing  the underlying issues that they have. Otherwise,   it's just going to be north side screaming one  day, that gets cleaned up, southside screaming   the next day, that gets cleaned up, downtown  screaming, then west side, then east side,   and it's just going to keep happening in a  rotation around the city. Right now, we just   don't have those resources to get people in there  and then into housing. We have a limited amount of   vouchers. Um, our housing department's going to be  in trouble. The Senate budget, I think they said   17% reduction in the housing staff. uh the house  budget 43%. So when these budget comes, our budget   cuts are coming, especially with the vast majority  of our housing department is funded uh through HUD   and through the federal government. When those  cuts are coming, that's going to be even less   resources that we have. The only solution we have  to actually address this long term, and that's our   job here, is not just short term, but long term,  is to keep the investments going into the MAC into   the ultimate solutions that we have to get people  back into housing and address those underlying   issues. I will I will concur on that. The the  bottleneck in this whole equation is housing.   There's just not enough room and all the resources  we have to put all the homeless people into   temporary shelter. The key word is temporary.  Um we do need more housing. Uh we have people   in the community working on that uh very hard.  Um I think I'm I'm working on hard too. So So we   do need more housing. Depends on who you talk to.  who are 3 to 5,000 units short of housing. That's   a lot of units, but you know, how do you eat  an elephant? It's one bite at a time and can't   do it overnight. So, I think that that's what we  need to to to focus on and in the private sector,   too. And there are community members that are  stepping up in the private sector uh and doing   something about it. So, I appreciate that. I  appreciate their leadership in that. I would jump   in and say it's not humane. It's not compassionate  to let people live on the streets. This council   has invested more than any other council in terms  of addressing this issue with beds and resources.   Yes, there's more resources to come and I'm  thankful for those resources, but we still   have more resources now than we did previously.  And you know, for individuals in our community,   still report encampments, report them to the  city, report them to me. I will make sure that   they're addressed because the only way that we're  going to get people to help is by addressing those   encampments. Whether that be law enforcement going  out there or a housing department going out there,   they have to have a touch point. And our job from  this bench and the job for this institution is   law enforcement. Our job is to make laws and to  enforce laws and if there's laws on the books,   they should be enforced and enforced to the full  extent. And we are pouring resources to also   address that. But when I have people reach out  from Topeka or Kansas City that our challengers   are more when I go to DC, when I go to Chicago  and I see less people living on the streets than   we are, I don't know if we're addressing this well  and that's a challenge and I know we're continue   to make investments and I hope we continue to  move in the right direction. I'm confident this   council is committed to doing that. But we  have to see more change because individuals   have not seen change over the past year despite  the investments that we made in this community.   And part of the challenge is we continue to want  immediate results on a problem that or a challenge   that is not going to see immediate results. The  investment in Second Life was great. This council,   former council's invested in that. Awesome.  We see community organizations coming to the   table. Awesome. We see private sector starting to  make investments. Awesome. That does not mean by   December 31st, you're not going to see somebody  unhoused. It means that the foundation to help   address the issue is being built and it's  going to take time and we are still in the   midst of that going to see someone sleep on the  sidewalk or against a building or at a pavilion   like it is going to continue to happen until we  get to a space where all of that is laid and as   we every few months say where are we at? I still  see unhoused people. You're you're going to see   them because the foundation's not done yet. Second  light is not complete yet. Transitional housing is   something we've talked about. I don't think all  those units are built yet. Um there's a few folks   in the private sector I know that are working to  build some homes. They they haven't broken ground   yet. So again, it's we continue to see folks who  are challenged and housed and face these things,   but the foundation's not done yet. The full  infrastructure to support it is not done yet.   And truly, as the vice mayor said, if  we are looking at housing, this body,   not just making laws and enforcing laws, should be  looking at how do we address this issue. We have   the power of incentives. So, how do we incentivize  more housing or transitional housing? I know we   have a workshop coming up, but our focus should  be on how we continue to build out that foundation   to make this community better, empowered, and  to see less instances of people losing homes,   better paying jobs. so they can stay in some form  of housing and then resources to pull people from   homelessness into being stable again so that they  can have a decent life. We've talked about those   things, but as we again because this conversation  started with ordinance and codification,   as we focus more on that and less on those other  things, we'll continue to have this cycle until   that foundation is set. And we have to continue  to build that foundation and lean harder on the   legislature and the federal government who right  now, as council member Hohheisle said, is looking   to make cuts. They should not be making cuts.  There should be more investment in this. And what   we're going to see is a sad and unfortunate trend  like this legislature did decades ago. When you   start removing mental health resources and other  investment, you find ourselves in the situation   we're in now. The federal government's doing that.  I don't see the state legislature putting any real   dollars other than the little bit they've done  so far into addressing this and it's going to   continue to impact us and this body will hopefully  not but then this body will look at what else can   we codify to make sure that we don't see unhoused  people and we can force them into a shelter that   they don't legally have to stay in and may not  want to go to because we haven't done the work   to build the trust so that they know that we are  a helpful hand and not something just trying to   penalize them. Bob, did you mention that Sally  and Steve have a pilot project they'd like to tell   us about? Yes, I have a couple just a couple of  comments. Um, going to the vice mayor's comment,   you eat this elephant, a whole lot of people  taking one bite at a time, right? It's a it's   all it's us and our partner. I will also note  that you have made a difference already with   your investment in Second Light. There are this  summer there are 150 people that were in Second   Light on a regular basis that would have been on  the street otherwise. So you have been able to to   bring people into a more permanent into a shelter  arrangement and then hopefully get them the kind   of services that they need. I'd like Sally to talk  about the the housing piece of this um which is   goes well beyond the the shelter but trying to get  people into a more permanent housing situation. If   I can before I transition over to Sally I think  I have a good segue for that as well which is   uh speaking of compassion I want to follow up  on that you you all know as a council and we've   shared in the cold winter months the people that  are out making contact with unhoused individuals   and offering them transportation to shelter are  with the Witchaw Police Department. All of our   offic all of our officers mobilized to go out  and make contacts hundreds of contacts in that   extreme cold and offer transportation to shelter.  Now bedspace is a challenge with that because we   have to have somewhere to take them. Second, uh  we've seen success as we shared last week with   our ICT team model, a true coordinated approach  to addressing challenges in our community and we   would love to re replicate that with our homeless  outreach team and homelessness services. In fact,   that's something that I brought up and the chief  and I brought up to Second Light uh just a couple   weeks ago that as we move into the winter season,  we would love to see when we have these cold cold   weekends or days that it is the Witchaw Police  Department and homeless services provider in a   vehicle together going out to make these contacts.  And I'll hand it over to Sally with that. Mayor, members of council. Um, yes, our team  right now has resources and we do go out into the,   you know, into the field and make contact.  That's not their primary job responsibility,   though. Those are case workers who actually have  um case loads higher than I'd even like to see,   who carve out time to go out with a hot  team, to go out with neighborhood, you know,   with communitywide outreach. Um that happens once  or twice a month. In our normal circumstances,   we don't have any funding to be able to do that.  We are launching a pilot program that's a little   bit separate that um Steve is going to talk about,  but we've taken advantage of some opportunities in   the past few years to make that available. So we,  you know, we had CARES funding that came through   ESG and CDBG. We went for the Project Hope grant.  We had ERRA funds that we were able to be creative   um to be able to deploy these type  of resources. But I'll tell you,   Project Hope funding ends September 30th.  ERRA funding ends September 30th. Um, so the   positions that those funded would be eliminated  on September 30th, but we've found a little wedge   of of CDBGCV to continue it till June 30th of  next year. Once that expires, we're continuing   to look for additional funding opportunities to  continue that, but we haven't secured any. Um it   is unfortunate because the relationship we have  with the hot team and our teams are are talking   and meeting with the hot team several times a week  often um to try and engage people where they are.   Uh so we will continue to work in that realm but  until we identify additional funding to continue   that activity which includes the social work  interns which to me has been one of the most   fabulous programs. um it helps us get at either  masters or bachelor's level social work students   um at multiple universities and have them working  handinhand with our case workers as well as   with the hot team. Um oftentimes we're getting  permanent employees through that. That is a great   program. Funding is going to go away for that. So  it means we have to be more creative. We have to   lean on our partners in the community to be able  to uh do that outreach. One of the challenges   we have with the MAC uh right now and it'll  forever be the MAC in my mind is Second Light.   The original vision for that really was the multi-  agency center. This is resources. This is how we   connect people quickly to housing with shelter and  it seems to have turned to shelter with services.   Okay. So, you know, we we really need to be  focusing on that exit plan because if we just   continue to bring more and more people in, we're  just creating a backlog. We need to secure all of   the resources necessary so that when someone does  engage at Second Light, there is a path that we're   getting them to that next step, whether that's  rapid rehousing, permanent supportive housing,   transitional housing, whatever that resource. But  once we, you know, that place is full, where else   are we going to be placing people? That's one of  our bigger challenges. So then I want to turn it   over to Steve Burke to talk about the new direct  to housing initiative. It's a pilot project. Oh yes. And project three. Sorry. Thank you,  Steve. Um project three on the campus over   at Second Light is building housing. We're able  to use the the proceeds from the sales of those   public housing properties to build a 75 unit  building. Things are moving along great. We   are ex actually expecting uh to be able to break  ground have a break uh groundbreaking ceremony   in December with really moving dirt by February  about a year to build. We're talking 50 units   of permanent supportive housing definitely  studio apartments about 360 ft and 25 units   of non- congregate shelter that'll be focused at  those that have the most critical needs for their   health and safety. So, we're very excited that  that's moving along and it's going to help the   process. But again, the idea there simp just like  I say for the shelter is that's not, you know,   we want people to move even from that housing,  have them staying in that housing until they're   stabilized and then because we're going to be  layering project based vouchers on it, it gives   them the right that once they're stabilized and  been there at least a year, they can move on with   assistance. So it builds in that move on strategy,  that path, that bridge to the next step. So we're   very excited that that's coming along well. Real  quick, Sally, um I know there were plans for an   additional uh couple of units of housing built,  maybe close by campus. Uh do you have any updates   on that? We at this point we said let's make  sure we get project one finished, project two,   the shelter renovation done, project three going  strong, but we are still talking about potentially   a project four which um is would be a low-income  housing tax credit project off of North Broadway.   So, we're still having conversations with Petra,  who is our developer partner on that as well as   um Ascension Via Christie and other partners in  the area. Yes. Thank you, Sally and Steve both   this question. Um, Council Member Johnson, Council  Member Tuttle, Chief Sullivan, and I all attended   the United Way uh, impact on the planes last week.  And one of the things that they did was they've,   um, within a minute and a half, they raised  $20,000 for housing navigators. I would like   to know how those housing navigators uh, work  with the housing at the city of Witchaw and then   in collaboration with our homeless outreach team  to go and help these individuals. If everyone has   their own housing navigators, why are we not  collaborating more or having a central unit   regarding our officers being able to be with a  housing navigator? Because I don't believe that   police should be the first to have contact with  individuals facing homelessness. But if everyone   is doing their own thing, I feel like we're just  thinning out the resources. Um, we are moving in   that direction, mayor and council. Um the housing  navigation model is that with which the person who   is a housing navigator can connect somebody who's  asking for a housing resource to that housing   resource, help them identify a unit and then help  them move in. So, let me back up just a little   bit because um if you recall, uh Mandy Chapman  simple uh model of Houston and how they reduced   unsheltered homelessness in the downtown corridor  of Houston was something that we grasped onto and   we had her team come and train us on this direct  to housing model. This direct to housing model   has three case manager models and this is what the  United Way has leaned into as well as us in terms   of creating this housing navigation model. Yes,  there are street outreach workers and these are   people who are tasked with going out and building  rapport and making sure that people are safe and   alive. And then there's that that connection  case manager called the housing navigator that's   primary responsibility is to connect them to a  housing resource. And then a third level of case   manager takes over. That's a housing stabilization  case manager. If you've been living on shelter for   many years and now suddenly you have a roof over  your head, you're going to have some problems.   you're going to have some challenges that that  need to be overcome and having assistance with   that is definitely helpful. So, what we've  launched is this direct to housing pilot   project. We've chosen a camp. Um not going to  say exactly where it is. It's on South Broadway.   It's on private land so that we could quickly um  consolidate our resources and get that closed once   we housed everybody. And I'm happy to say that the  camp has 12 individuals in it, eight households,   and they all will be housed by 1010. then that  camp will be closed. We're currently communicating   with city leadership um including um the police  department as well as the hot team as well as   the city manager about where are we going next.  So that encampment work is respectful of those   individuals who don't or can't find their way  to shelter. We have to acknowledge that shelter   may not be for everybody, but to drive everybody  to make the assumption that everybody must drive   through shelter in order to access services is  something that we're investing a new lane in to   see if this can work. Obviously, this was a pilot.  We've got some bumps in the road that we need to   work out. It's taken us about 72 to 75 days. We  hope to move a whole lot quicker moving forward.   Sally, as amazing as she is, identified a home  tennis based uh rental assistance resource. So,   we're going to be working with our community's  housing navigators. We are walking in as the   voucher holder. We're not walking in to offer a  bottle of water. We're walking in offering them   a housing resource. This is real. This is true.  Also, the United Way has a uh landlord engagement   process that they have stood up recently, and  it is because of that program that we're able to   identify landlords and open units and quickly  connect them. These are long-term homeless   people. It shouldn't happen in 75 days. These are  people who have been out there for 10 plus years,   and in 75 days, we're getting them  leased up. That's extraordinary.   We're hoping to replicate the model at our  next encampment starting as soon as next week. That is amazing. I just appreciate the work  that you all are doing and we need to see more   of that. Thank you, Mayor. Just in conclusion,  um this started with discussion of enforcement,   police work. Uh Chief Sullivan is here to  be able to address any outstanding issues,   maybe put his spin on this conversation as well. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. So, we  gave you the number of contacts that we had per   the ordinance. The person voluntarily leaves. We  are not supposed to issue a citation. Not quite   sure what good it would do to issue a homeless  person a citation that they don't have the money   to pay. But the actions are being taken and I  have been a very strong proponent since the day   I arrived here that there has to be a combination  of police and civilian outreach. I think we have   one of the best mental health co-responder teams  in the country. And I just sent all of you the   statistics to show that the the new teams  that that we invested police on are actually   producing more than those without police. As as  my captain said, when it's 5 degrees below zero,   we're out there trying to house people and  we're out there alone. And I've objected to   that as well. Enforcement is not the answer to  this problem. And we've seen around this country   time and time again too often tragedies that have  occurred because of confrontations between police   and unhoused citizens. And we have done our best  in the police department to make sure that our   officers are trained to prevent those type of  incidents. But the best way that you prevent   those type of incidents is make sure that there  are a body of individuals out there that we can   call upon just just as we call upon the mental  health outreach teams every single day to be   the forefront of contact between uh themselves and  homeless individuals. And we're there to support.   That's the only model that I believe is going to  work. So, um I'm kind of disappointed in some of   the things that I've heard today. Um I'm kind  of confused. I look forward to talking to all   of you more to find more of your questions. But  hot cannot be the default answer to homelessness,   nor can the police. It's not going to work and  has the potential to to end up a tragedy. And   that's my priority is preventing that something  like that from happening. So to any questions,   chief, thank you very much for that. And that is  exactly where we need the actual resource which is   the outreach worker. So I would like to know from  housing, should we be calling housing instead when   it comes to when we interact with someone in our  community who is facing homelessness? Is there a   specific number? Because right now it seems like  we need to call 911 and I don't believe that that   should be the number. So who is the outreach team  that we should be reaching out to? Has that even   been created? If there is a group of one or two  individuals, who is that person? Because I don't   believe that our community actually knows that.  And so I'd like to know from the city manager,   is there an outreach team? Is there maybe whether  it's a housing division outreach team or a United   Way outreach team, whom should we be actually  calling? That's what community wants to know. We   we don't want to confuse the public with another  number or another set another team. What we want   what what the chief is outlining is there's not a  problem with calling a hotline, whether it's 911.   uh we don't have a direct call to the to  the hot but if it's 911 or cclick fix we   have a system in place then where they will make  sure that the necessary resources are available.   I think what the chief is saying is he needs  people to come alongside his team that's that   are doing the first initial review to try to  provide the services through case workers and   um uh other outreach folks. I mean that  that's if we introduce new numbers,   we're going to confuse the public even more. And  I don't believe I can staff a team for 20 on a   24/7 basis so that if somebody called at 2 in  the morning that I could get guarantee you I'd   have an outreach team out there. To that to that  question or to that end when the chief needs more   resources who like who can we say today is going  to be the person going out with them to be able to   do this? Yeah need Sally's help here because of  the multiple parties that are involved in this. There is no specific outreach team. The folks that  we have doing outreach, like I said, those are   case workers who are pro providing case management  services and we asked, can you go out twice a   month and do this in addition to your overloaded  case load? We do not have a team of hours. Also,   when I asked the question earlier to Captain Moses  about what resources, is there a plan that if you   give us a plan tomorrow, we can allocate $500,000  towards this plan. Is there a plan and a person   that if we say yes today that we can move forward  tomorrow on it? If if there was funding available,   we could we the problem is again, we just don't  have funding to fund people to just to be doing   outreach. 99% of the funding that comes through  our department is federal and it is very specific   on the activities that they can do. Um and and we  would need to get around not around that through   that. So that if we're the you know if we're the  taxing jurisdiction and we can allocate resources,   we can allocate additional resources. And  so if that is what is the missing piece,   what is the amount that is needed depends on what  like like the manager said, are you looking for   247 coverage? We would have to sit down and figure  out that type of schedule. That would be a great   opportunity to match those because I don't want  to lose the the social work intern piece because   funding is going away because we are building  up future case workers. We have a lack of case   workers across this community. But that would  be a fabulous opportunity to leverage if you   had designated outreach teams who then could have  the also the assistance of and the of um social   work intern students would be fabulous. we'd have  to sit down and put the numbers against it to see   um you know what it would cost in a year. Well,  one of the things I do agree with Councilman   Johnson on today is that we can't rely on the  federal government and the state government.   We have to address this oursel and we have to  address address it aggressively and so I would be   interested in what resources need needed to make  sure that we're partnering with law enforcement   on every call and we can make sure we're going out  there. Sally, go back to the also Second Light and   when Second Light is fully operational, what is  their role? The agencies that are part of Second   Light, what is their role? You know, honestly,  that's not being shared with us by the Second   Lightboard. Yeah. I I the concept when we put  it up together, the concept was that you would   have social, you'd have those wraparound services  that be able to support police, that police would   have a single place to go to take people or to  come alongside them. That's the concept. Also,   I I'll remind you right now, you're the only ones  that have put significant resources into this. I   don't know where what it's going to take to get  the remainder of the provider community to come   alongside what you're doing. That's a challenge  for the Second Life board right now. They have to   find continuous funding past your $5 million. But  that $5 million is supposed to be more than just   running a shelter. It's supposed to make sure that  we have the support services in that building. Um,   I would like to tag on to that too. I I agree with  that. That was that was the intention of Second   Light from day one. Not just to be a shelter, not  just to have everybody work in that shelter, but   to have navigators to help people find housing.  And the pilot program that Steve and Sally are   doing is fantastic. uh I think navigators to help  people get to housing right away, not even go to   the shelter. That should be a function of second  light also. So, we need to hold their feet to   the fire to make sure they do that. Also, I I  completely agree and I've spoken with several   of the board members and and they know that they  understand that they also are hoping that people   who are not unhoused, but maybe the working poor  who are that one paycheck away from being unhoused   will also use second lights so that they're not  in the situation where they need shelter. Perhaps   they can, you know, be preventative of that. So,  um, you know, we we all need to support the Second   Lightboard as much as they can we can because I  think they really understand that's their mission.   I just want to add really quick when I'm out in  the community talking about mental health in our   community. I always talk about the four lights to  the stool and it's biomemed expanding the crisis,   the multi- agency center and the state  hospital. you know, we have gotten into,   you know, the situation that we're in, this mental  health crisis over like several decades. And while   we are all extremely impatient and totally being  judged on what's going on on Broadway, we we never   celebrate the successes that we have. And so I  appreciate the data that everyone has shared.   We are making incredible strides in our community  and unfortunately it's not fast enough, but we   are really laying the groundwork for projects  that have been talked about for decades and for   areas that have been cut for decades and we are  literally trying to pick up the pieces for our   community and it is going to take some more work  and we are not done. But we are doing incredible   work and we are helping people and the numbers  are showing. But the encampments that we're   still seeing are really difficult. But we can't  just continue to bulldoze them. And you know,   I don't understand what the purpose of a citation  would be either. It's just kind of exacerbating   the the same issue. So I appreciate um that nobody  has given a citation. I think the hot team hasn't   either in as many years as they've been working.  So, I'd also just like to celebrate and say thank   you to the good work and the foundation that is  being laid. And unfortunately, it's still going   to take a little bit longer for us to feel all of  the benefits of all of these different programs,   but we should be really proud of oursel because we  are doing work that has been put off for decades. I think one of the questions that um both council  members right here are sharing is resources,   dollar resources. Um and just recently, a few  weeks ago, we actually uh increased the mill levy   for the downtown Smid. So, downtown Witchah is  going to implement a clean and safe program. So,   maybe this would be the opportunity for this  outreach group. um because I really don't believe   that police should be the first to interact with  individuals who are facing homelessness. And so   is there an opportunity there for maybe this  new clean and safe team to be the first group   that sees and interacts with these individuals  as we've seen them around our community? If   they're asking for a job, I'd love to give them  a number or a person that they can connect with.   they're looking for a specific item, we want to  connect them to those resources. And and again,   the whole point is that this council has invested  $13 million into Second Light. And that's just one   portion of this big challenge, a communitywide  challenge. So now we also have downtown Witchaw   with the Clean and Safe. That's an additional  dollars that we've been allocating. So can we   maybe now come together and really stop these  silos? because what I'm seeing is just too many   silos and if we don't know what the left hand is  doing and the right hand is also doing the same   thing, we just need to come together and I think  that this discussion proves it right here. Um,   if there is no such thing as a specific outreach  team and it's just a couple of people maybe twice   a month that are going out to outreach, that's a  problem because we are seeing individuals who are   right now in the very streets of Witchah needing  that help and they don't even know that Second   Light exists and that's a problem. So maybe it  should be the outreach team. So I would like to   see that as more of the priority to help connect  individuals to those resources and it should again   not be law enforcement as the first barrier.  Uh two issues there, mayor. First of all, yes,   I think we can do some work with uh downtown  um development regarding the role of the safe   and clean team. Uh I I we're just having a  conversation with them uh with I think with   Jeff Flor late last week about that and so um I  want to make sure that there is proper training   for that team and that they are connected to  our police department as well as Second Light   and our housing department so that they have they  are aware of our resources and um our issues. Um   and then the second piece of that is I think we uh  need to further engage with Second Light regarding   the services that they're going to provide and our  expectations of Second Light as primary funer and   uh the role we'd like to see the providers  play as originally intended and we I have   no problem at all having that conversation  with Second Light representatives. I think a   great follow-up would be the next workshop which  would be October to come back with Second Light   um and have that conversation. I think it needs  to be in public. Um I believe that we need to   set that expectation. Um if it is an expectation  from this body, it needs to be in public. Mayor,   I don't disagree. In fact, I have it scheduled  for the November workshop. Um because um there had   been the vice mayor had asked to have uh a status  report in November. We'll know much more about   where they are not just in terms of construction  but what full operations are going to look like   and I think we can have a pretty meaningful  conversation because by then you'll know what   providers have committed and what providers will  be in and what services they're going to provide. Does this body is this body okay with  delaying I guess two months to get   this report rather than in October um as  we're getting near to that winter month?   I'm good with delaying it. And again,  honestly, I think if we're serious,   it's not just a conversation with Second Light.  We need to talk to the CLC. I mean, there's so   many partners at play. And if we truly want to  bring people together around one common cause,   that's what we should be doing. We can demand  all we want to a second light, but you still   have your other organizations through the CLC  and other nonprofit providers that may not be   at that table. So, it should be a more of a  collective conversation together and trying   to figure out goals and objectives, strengths and  weaknesses, and see how we can meet those. But,   I'm I'm fine waiting two months because I  think more comprehensive work should be done. I'm okay with uh November again if we add the  additional COC. So that's the continuum of care   for those that don't know. Um, Second Light  as well as the housing department. [Music] That's all we had. I Reggie was going to report  that we're on target to probably have about 400   encampment cleanups by the end of the year. I just  have one quick question for I'm not sure who it   is for, but um if Second Light is at capacity,  I think their capacity is 120 right now. Where   can folks go? If you're a woman, you can't go  to Union Rescue Mission. I don't know about   Salvation Army. like where are you allowed to be?  Cap Captain Moses referenced that. Right now the   um director of Second Light is pulling together  all of those resources and then trying to put   together an app that will show as close to real  time as we can where beds are available on a daily   basis. And that's been requested by the chief and  his staff. So, I don't know all of those. They are   identifying those that are available. I think  we all know about Indian rescue, but there are   other players as well. Well, I was just curious.  So, mayor, like when you saw the people under   the bridge, did you talk to them or did you call  the police? I'm just I know how other some other   people handle or they email me. I'm just curious  how I guess how everybody's handling it. Yeah. So,   I actually was going to call 911 as that is the  number one thing that we're asked to do, but   knowing that um that is not necessarily blocking  a sidewalk. I wanted to get understanding of this   ordinance. So, you're not blocking the sidewalk  as long as a wheelchair can go through. And in   this situation, a wheelchair can go through. So,  therefore, 911 would not be the appropriate call.   Therefore, I'm bringing it up. I brought it up to  the city manager. What really prompted this was   um just yesterday as I was driving here to city  hall, I saw a man on Central pull down his pants   and start defecating on the street. And that  is not indicative of this community. That is   not a healthy community. A healthy community is  compassionate and would allow this individual to   get inside to utilize a bathroom or to have a  phone number where I could connect him to the   actual resource. And that's what I'm asking from  this conversation. We if we don't have an outreach   team right now that we can call upon and say, "I  just saw an individual literally in some sort of   crisis because he just pulled down his pants and  it should not be 911 where I'm asking an officer   to to attend to this individual. I want someone  who's compassionate that can go and interact with   this individual and say, "This is not what you're  supposed to do. What What do you need? Do you know   that there's a a shelter literally a few blocks  away? That should not be law enforcement that I   should be calling. It should be a number I should  be calling and any community member should feel   comfortable calling. So, is it the 988 number?  I don't know. And that's why I'm asking for this   conversation because that is what prompted the  actual conversation had being had at this moment.   It is that individual yesterday on central that  then I sent an email to city manager Leighton. And the last thing I'll say about this  is despite our conversation today,   the one thing I know we all universally agree on,  we had a lot of disagreements from this bench is   that we want to address homelessness, that we  want to address this in a compassionate way.   And I think every single person on this bench  is committed to that. I know you are committed   to that. I know the manager's committed to  that. I know all of our staff's committed   to that. Our community is committed to that and  often people get frustrated when they don't see   tangible change. Um, and I know things are slow,  but we put investments in there. And I think   the community wants to see change as well. And  they want to see change not just for, you know,   their personal gain when they're trying to do  downtown, but I think we have a compassionate   community that wants to make sure people get help.  And so, despite maybe our conversation up here,   I know we all universally agree on this. We're  pushing the right direction. We put our money   where our mouth is and invested in this. And  I think Councilman Johnson's point, we have   to be met with state partners, county partners,  federal partners as well in this. And if they're   not going to help us, then we have to figure  out a way to have an outreach team that we can   address it and fix it oursel. And we can't rely on  other institutions to come in and save us from it. Thank you, Sally. Thank you, Chief.  Thank you, Captain Moses. Steve,   um, appreciate the information. I think we're sitting actually. Madame  clerk, can you please call Josh? Oh,   sorry. Appointments and stuff. Uh, we  still have boards. Bet Josh wishes it   was on time. Okay. Board of bids and  contracts dated September 22nd, 2025. Morning, mayor, city council. Josh Lber,  Department of Finance. The board of bids   and contracts convened yesterday, September  22nd for the following items. For engineering,   we have the construction of  concrete path at Sycamore   Park for PPJ Construction Incorporated  for an aggregate bid total of $124,170. We have the South Oliver Waterline extension from   MacArthur to 47th Street South for  PSC contractors LLC for $1,285,270. for purchasing. We have the 31,000 gross  vehicle weight restriction cabin chassis   flatbed winch truck for Omaha Truck Center doing  business as Truck Center companies for $316,648. We have trash carts and collection  services for housing community services,   Waste Connections of Kansas  Incorporated for $17 a cart. and the service and maintenance of groundwater  extraction remediation wells for hydro resources   midcontinent incorporated for base bid of  $14,784 uh requesting your authorization   to accept the base bid and optional task listed  that will be found in the um fieldwork as items   are found we have valve boxes lids and rings  water work supply change order core and main   LP for an amended amount of 88,225,000 per Here  we have waterworks supply groups 2, three, four,   five, and six. Change order for corn main  LP for an amended amount of $737,876.40. We have the employee condition management services  exchange order for Daario Health Corporation doing   business as Daario Health for an estimated  $340,000 annually. We have the citizen survey   services software prescription change order for  policy confluence incorporated doing business KCO   uh requesting authorization to amend at a $4,500  expense annually. And we have the process server   contract change order uh requesting authorization  to extend the contract for one year with Red Spade   Investigations Incorporated. And we have a  legal dumping cleanup contract change order   for HD Mills and Suns Incorporated requesting  your authorization to extend the contract 60   days while staff work to bring that back to you  for presentation for a new contract. We have the   pre-employment physical examination to substance  abuse screens contract change order for work   safe physical therapy incorporated requesting  authorization to accept additional rates not   previously contracted and amend the contract.  This is how to become a vendor with the city.   This is our purchasing calendar of small business  resource partners we're interacting with or we're   hosting. And this is our open public opportunities  out on the street today. And I'd be happy to try   to answer your questions and recommend  your approval. Thank you, Josh. Questions   for staff? I see none. I move to approve the  board of bids and contracts for September 22nd,   2025. Second. Motion and a second. Any further  discussion? I see none. All those in favor say   I. I. All those opposed, same sign. Motion  passes. 70. Madame clerk, can you now call   council member appointments and comments? Council  member appointments and comments. Council members,   any appointments? I have an appointment. Uh,  appoint John Oswwell to transit advisory board. Any other appointments? I see none. I move to  approve the appointment. Second. motion and   a second. Any further discussion? I see none.  All those in favor say I. I. All those opposed,   same sign. Motion passes. 7 zero. We'll now  move to council member comments. Any comments,   council members? Council member Johnson.  Thanks, Mayor. Um, not to be the dead horse,   but you know, I've often talked about what we  should be investing in as a city government,   local government, and earlier this year, I made  the comment that I'll repeat today that we made   some cuts to our budget that resulted in losing  $2.3 million. And this conversation to me is   again looking at what the investments in quality  of life mean. The pilot that Sally and Steve are   operating out of housing, it's amazing. And being  that federal funding may dry up, I can think of   2.3 million reasons why we probably could support  those types of efforts to address the challenges   that were talked about today. So, as we continue  to look at the challenges we are going to face,   that decision's made, the money's gone. But  I just feel that over the next several months   and years, this body is going to continue to see  opportunities that we could make some strategic   investment to improve the situation here, whether  it's our in-house community or programs like that   to really continue to make Witchah better. And  today, to me, as I listen to the conversation,   as we heard about the programs and opportunities,  I just continue to think about the dollars that   we no longer have. I know the arguments that were  made about it, but that type of investment into   these opportunities through housing and and  others. We don't know what will come out of   the conversation with the COC, um, Second Light  and others. There was opportunity there that now   is going to be uh hopefully our community  coming together to to fund those things,   but we have some real opportunities and today just  highlights again the impacts of those decisions.   Mr. manager. Just uh Councilman Johnson's point  as well. I know when we've had the conversation   about reducing the mill levy for the first time  in 39 years, there was it had passed this council.   Um but we also had a conversation about uh the  possibility of looking at a sales tax referendum   to go out to the public uh next year. Is there an  update or maybe when we could expect a referendum   or a vote to come to council? Council member,  I still need to have some conversations with   all of you regarding your desire to move forward  with that and what the timetable would be. What   I understood the preliminary discussion uh  to be was that you were looking at a spring   referendum. I believe it's March by code.  Is that right? By the state code, Jennifer,   that sounds correct. I think it's I believe  March is your opportunity. Either that or   um in the primary in August or November. So those  are the the three options that the council wants   to pursue. And when when would we have to vote on  that to allow it on a March ballot? So 90 days.   I don't I think 90 I can circle back to get an  answer about that later. Yeah. I I believe you   I I believe the council needs to make that  decision. Well, from a practical standpoint,   you need to make that decision this year. Okay.  And I I just am super curious about this whole   process because I was in three different meetings  last week that were talking about potential sales   tax referendums. And I I'm just not sure how  as a community, not just the city of Witchah,   I know the county's interested. I know there's  a couple other um organizations, you know,   interest groups that are interested in it. There's  some forprofits that are talking about things that   could be done. I'm not sure of the process  of how we coordinate everyone so that it it's   um strategic. Um and it's something that the  city can't lead. We can't be the ones who are   advocating for it. It has to be communitydriven.  So, I'm just curious if maybe there can be some   sort of thought put into how do we do this in a  coordinated manner. It can't be one council member   wants this and one council member wants that and  the county wants this. We have to be strategic.   Do you have thoughts or suggestions of how we  try and move this forward in a methodical way? I'm not sure. Okay, I put you on the spot. Can  we think about how to do it in a methodical way?   It's it it will take leadership from  each organization that's considering   some type of voter action next year to  get on the same page regarding what that   looks like. Um I too have heard about two other  jurisdictions that are considering some kind of   um referendum next year. So um something to put  some thought into for sure. Yep. Any further   comments from council members? I see none. I will  move to adjourn this meeting. Second motion and a   second. Any further discussion? I see none.  All those in favor say I. All those opposed,   same sign. Motion passes. 70. We're ending  at 10:38 to start the workshop. C. Uh,   city manager Le. Thank you, mayor. Um so let's  start with fireworks. Um it fire department is   fire department is uh prepared to brief on the  2025 uh fireworks program and to bring back   some observations and recommendations for the  future. That I'll turn it over to Chief Snow. Good morning, city council. Morning, city  manager. Uh Tammy Snow, fire chief, and   uh with me today is Chief Joseé Okades,  and he's in charge of the community risk   reduction section, which leads our  fireworks efforts each year. So,   I am going to turn over to to him um  to make the presentation. Thank you. Good morning, Mayor Woo, City Council,  City Managers, uh Jose Alcatis, Witchaw   Fire Department. Um on behalf of Fire Chief Snow  and Fire Marshall Dugan, I'm here to present the   2025 fireworks review. I would like to begin the  25 uh fireworks review by just going through some   history of our fireworks ordinance throughout the  city. Um we had um prior to where we're currently   at in 2025. Prior to 2023, our fireworks ordinance  um enforced a fireworks that wasn't allowed to be   uh no higher than six feet. Um that was designated  as a safe and sane type of fireworks. Also part of   the original um fireworks ordinance was the fact  that we required all vendors to submit a inventory   um product list along with three items of  each device to the Witchaw Fire Department   for us to confirm and test that those  fireworks are not going to be over 6 feet.   So after the 2022 fireworks season um  and looking at all the data that we had,   one of the things that we really noticed was the  fact that city of Witchah within the city limits,   we were on an island on our own compared to all  the communities surrounding the city of Witchah,   which really followed the state statue of  allowing all consumer types of fireworks.   So after the 2022 fireworks season, Chief Snow  tked the community risk reduction division to   come up with some ideas and plans and possibility  of allowing aerial fireworks within the city of   Witchah. So part of that plan is that we con  um got together and we created three types of   committees to be able to have some input from  internally and externally. Those committees   consisted of the city of Witchah citizens and they  were members from a member from each district that   were part of that citizen fireworks committee  along with our vendors um had their own committee   and give us feedback on what was beneficial for  them as a business but also internally with the   city of Witchah staff from legal witchaw police  department. We had two council members along with   uh parks department and legal and also with  licensing I'm sorry with licensing and witchaw   fire department members. So in 2023 we submitted  um a proposal to city council and city council   approved a new fireworks ordinance to allow aerial  fireworks and we were going to implement this in a   two-phase uh project. Phase one was going to be  in 2023 which we were going to allow or we did   allow aerial fireworks from July 1st through July  4th. Um the only difference from the phase two and   phase one or phase one and phase two was going to  be that aerial fireworks in 2023 were not allowed   to be sold. Safe and sane fireworks was June  27th through July 4th. And also part of phase   one was an increase of fines that was associated  with not abiding by this fireworks ordinance,   which was previously $250 to um the initial  first offense to $1,000 all the way up to a third   offense of $2,000. So 2024 came. Uh 2023 fireworks  season was a success on the aerial fireworks. Um   and basically what we did was collect all the data  from the 2023 fireworks season. We met with our   fireworks or uh committees again and in 2024 phase  2 we allowed the sale of aerial fireworks but we   made some modifications on the dates specifically  of aerial fireworks on the number of dates that   were going to be shot. We reduced the number of  days but we in we added a day to match the city   or or this to match the state statute of uh of  July 5th. So all fireworks were allowed to be   shot June 27th through July 5th with the addition  of aerial fireworks July 3rd through July 5th.   So come to right now where we at in 2025. We  had state legislation passed a new state statute   regulating fireworks sales earlier in 2025. That  new state statute allowed for yearround sales   allowed for yearround shooting and for sales  to be allowed in brickandmortar facilities and   for throughout the state of Kansas. Um once  that state statute was uh voted in um which   taught fire department along with legal met and  basically proposed a uh an amendment or a new   ordinance to fireworks for the city of within  the city of Witchah and what we come to on city   council approved in May of the pre-existing 2024  fireworks ordinance. We mirrored exactly what we   did in 2024 to be able to um uh deal with the new  state regulation of firework sales. We also added   language that firework sales was not going to be  allowed within brickandmortar facilities. So come   to conclusion of the 2025 fireworks season,  Witchaw Fire Department responded to a total   of 92 related firework calls. During that time  frame um we gathered all the information from   our reports from our fire investigators and our  fire officers on our national fire reporting   system uh incident system. Uh and basically  we come to the conclusion that we did have   three structural fires involved in that involves  fireworks. Initially when I first reported the   uh the preliminary data from our fireworks season,  I reported zero structural fires. But again,   after reviewing all the narratives and  the reports from our fire investigators,   um it was determined that fireworks were involved  and they were the contents. So that was classified   as a structural fire. The the main thing is that  firework detonation was not the ignition source.   it was some other type of ignition source that  caused the fireworks inside the residence to   catch on fire. We had a 20 report of 29 injuries  reported to medical facilities within the city   of Witchah and also the 911 emergency uh non  non-emergent complaint lines received 1,188   calls. Out of those calls, remember emergency  communications is a San Countywide uh facility or   receives phone calls countywide. Out of those,  1100 calls, 866 were specifically within the   city of Witchah. And out of those 866, 410 were  actual calls violating the fireworks ordinance.   So with the partnership with our city  communications team, uh we did a re very robust   media outreach program this year. We attended  mayor briefings, attended local television   interviews, but also our social media sites uh  made contact to over 262,000 people. And again   with the partnership from our city comms, we were  able to acquire Spotify meta and also addressable   martin displays from July 25th through July 5th  to be able to remote to promote our city ordinance   and safety precautions, but mostly on proper  disposal on which fireworks allowed to be shot   and the time frames itself. So we were able to  make over a million impressions with those other   types of uh outreach programs and accessories that  we utilized. Here we have a comparison. This is   what we use on all our data from the number of  fire incidents. As you can see in 2025, we had   three reported structural fires and a total of n  of 92 incidents that we responded to. We did have   an increase of estimated loss compared to 2024.  But in reality, uh the the structural fires did   not go up. Um they remain the same. But also we're  still in the same time uh the number of responses   the past couple years um we have gone up from 2023  but right now we're steady um on flatline on the   number of incidents that we responded to. And this  is right here is the comparison to the number of   injuries that we had u for the past few years. As  you can see we have been decreasing for the past   couple years and the range of a of injuries  this year was two years to 48 years of age.   and 22 was incomplete data. Correct. Yes sir. Yes  sir. We did not receive uh all the information   from all the medical facilities that year. Okay.  Thank you. So enforcement efforts um this year was   our very first time that we did not regulate  or enforce the fireworks um throughout the um   non-erial uh fireworks allowable dates. uh we  reduced our our our patrols by 50% comparison   to last year. We patrolled really what we were  allowed to be easily enforced and that's after   hours fireworks shoot uh after hours shooting  from midnight to 2:00 a.m. We patrolled July 4th   through July 6th and including in the evening of  July 6 to make sure that there were no fireworks   being shot at all throughout the city of Witchah.  We had 14 fireworks enforcement teams. 12 of those   teams were our partnership with the Witchaw Police  Department. One firefighter, one police officer in   a uh vehicle patrolling our hotspots uh throughout  the city and we had two additional teams that   consisted of um fire investigators. A total  of 19 citations were issued um this past year.   So this is here for this map here shows you  for the 2025 on the locations of where our   citations were issued for this year. The chart  on the left hand side does have information   for 2024 on the districts. The number of  citations written for each district but   the map itself on the right hand side is just  specifically for uh this past year of 2025. One of the things that we were tasked also is  that we were we were asked to be able to get   an update on this the citations that  were issued in 2024. Um working with   uh um city courts, uh they were able to share  that out of the 34 citations issued in 2024,   16 citations have been paid. Three of them have  been dismissed. 15 cases were either disposed,   outstanding, pending, sent to collections for  entered in some type of divergent agreement.   And one of the options for uh when you get  issued a citation and you go to court is   some type of community service in lie of um  being uh paying for a fine. There were no   citations or no type of agreement for any  type of community service in lie of fine.   This map here is what we utilize for 2025 on our  hotspot maps um throughout the city in our patrol   enforcement efforts. Um this information  and this data is collected from the 2024   non-emergent lines when individuals are calling  and we able to create a hotspots to be able to   determine on where our patrol uh enforcement  efforts are going to be concentrated on. Financial considerations. This year was the  most firework tents that we had inspected and   reviewed from the permitting process. We  had a total of 75 firework tents that we   inspected with the sales permit fees totaled  of $112500. $112,500 was a total number of   uh permit fees that we collected. Part of that  tent permit fees funded our enforcement efforts   this year along with the remaining fees remaining  revenue was going is going to be utilized for our   marketing in 2026. Uh do we have any information  about any illegal tents that we came across? Uh we   did have a report of a few uh we went out and  investigated at that time but we didn't find   any type of uh they were not illegal fireworks  they had proper fireworks. Okay. Thank you. So,   getting ready for 2026 fireworks season. It'll be  here sooner than we think. Um, we will continue   to meet with our fireworks committees, get some  feedback of the past previous years, and but also   we're going to be working um diligently with our  city comm's team in preparation for America 250   celebrations, which is going to be um going to be  a big busy year. Next year the 4th of July will   fall on uh Fourth of July weekend will fall on a  Friday, Saturday and Sunday. So we'll have um see   what type of uh recommendations and what we'll do  from enforcement and also from a outreach program. I stand for questions. I had a quick  question. I think it's slide 39 for you. Um yes what is the difference between dumpster  trash and grass trees compost trash? So in   our infers our national fire reporting  uh information incident information   system is basically they have from uh trash and  compost and that is contained specifically for   um the purpose of compost and then there's also  just loose grass or loose type of vegetation and   trees that aren't contained in just sitting along  the side of a house or even out in a yard. Okay.   I was just wondering um I may take this back  now because I thought we could combine those,   but sometimes with certain trash companies if you  put too much out there, they'll come back and put   a sticker on your trash can saying you can't do  it. And I wondered if it would be of benefit maybe   the week before the 4th if we encouraged those  companies to put a sticker on people's trash   bins saying don't put hot or exposed um fireworks  in the trash can. Make sure they soak with water   or something first. But if we encourage them, not  making them and they may just do that. Yes, sir. U just not not necessarily a question, just a  comment. Um a lot of the complaints that I do   get from my people are um more in the week leading  up to um the Fourth of July weekend. Is there any   discussion or any options as far as getting maybe  additional patrols out before that time? I know we   kind of uh restricted it a little bit this year.  Um I think budgetary issues were part of that. Um   yes. So so when we'll be be meeting internally  with our fireworks committees and also with the   citizens to be able to get some feedback on you  know the possibility of re-engaging and prior to   the area or the the main time of the Fourth of  July weekend. Um, one of the things that what we   I spoke with specifically with uh city courts is  that um some of those citations that we issue um   are always being questioned because did we really  witness the fact that they shot illegal fireworks   which is aerials outside of that window versus  finding a whole bunch of debris. We see mortars or   the tubes for the mortars and is that enough from  a legal standpoint to issue a citation even though   we didn't witness it. So when those individuals  contest and come to court and contest that   citation, that is where there is a lot of gray  area in judgment for the the judge to determine if   it's going to be a a legitimate type of citation  or they'll throw it out or dismiss it. Are there   any plans to um utilize the real-time information  center or perhaps some of our drones? Yeah, that   that's uh drones have been brought up quite a bit.  Um we're still in discussions and we'll be meeting   with the Witchaw Police Department on their real  time um software that they have available. Okay.   Thank you. Quick comment. Uh first I apologize  that Mike and I's district is 10 of the 17   citations. Uh South Witchah likes fireworks. Um  so apologize for that. Uh also good luck next year   um with the Fourth July falling on the weekend.  If we go back to the other slide that was just up   there, that one. Um, I think this shows success  of the program and success of the new ordinance.   And I just want to thank you guys for uh running  this program and for the council members that sit   on the committee to establish this ordinance.  I think this was a success and hopefully we   continue to use the same uh metrics that we did  this year uh in the future as well. Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh, city manager  may our next um item is one that's been   talked about uh through the last year  and it has to do with a problem hotels   and motel in our community and a way of  possibly addressing some of the concerns   um that have been expressed regarding those  properties. And we have a presentation from   uh Jan German with our legal department  uh to outline a possible solution. Good morning, mayor, council. Uh Jan German with  the city law department. Um today I'm going to   talk to you about an idea and we are really in the  introductory stages of developing um a notion of a   lodging establishment ordinance or a hotel motel  ordinance. So let me tell you about what we've   done so far. Um hotels and motel currently do not  have a city of Witchah license. They are regulated   by the state of Kansas uh by the department of  agriculture. Unlike uh some of my research showed,   unlike a lot of other cities our size, Witchah  does not currently have a licensing structure for   lodging establishments. A lot of other cities do.  Um and when issues arise pertaining to health and   safety of occupants and residents, we have to rely  on outside agencies. So, if we get a complaint,   if police get a complaint of um something bad  happening at a hotel or motel, maybe it's bed   bugs, um maybe and they might have to direct them  to call the US, call the Kansas Department of   Agriculture, maybe they get a complaint about  violence at a hotel, motel. Um really there's   not a lot they can do other than obviously they  can enforce the laws against the crime itself,   but there's not much they can do to hold a hotel  or motel accountable at this point. Um multiple   lodging establishments in this city have been  the center of criminal activity in Witchah. Uh   personally I get phone calls uh from citizens  who complain about activities that happen at   hotels and motel. I know council does too. I know  police department does too. And uh we call the   department of agriculture and finally we will  often well not often we will get their buy in   and they will come down and do inspections but  it takes time. Um they're enforcing the entire   state and so they don't always have time to come  down on our timeline and address it as quickly   as we would like. So we're stuck waiting for the  Department of Agriculture uh to to respond. Um,   not only do we have questions or complaints  about issues of violence at some of the hotel   motel or crimes or prostitution, um, we also have  complaints about trash. I myself have driven down   Broadway and noticed um, a couple of the locations  have just I can't even explain how it happens,   but an entire parking lot littered with trash.  Just littered with trash. Um, and certainly   MABCD can respond and they can write a notice  of violation and give them weeks to respond. Um,   but our idea is that an ordinance that licenses  hotels and motel might give us more ability to   keep them cleaner longer. Um, and some lodging  establishments also have unsafe living conditions,   which we've also found. So, we proposed an  ordinance. It's it's a very rough ordinance   at this point and we have already started to get  some comments um from some in the industry and   those comments have been useful in creating this  ordinance. I also researched other hotel motel   lodging establishment type ordinances across  really um across the region. I thought it would   be best to look at the ones that are in Kansas,  Missouri, Oklahoma uh to get some inspiration   from. Uh and at this point, we have an idea to  require a license, but not require an inspection   on when you initially get your license. Um we  would use the initial inspection by the state   of Kansas Department of Agriculture as our first  inspection. So, when you apply in Witchah, you   would come to us with your state of Kansas license  in hand. Uh, and and with a few exceptions,   you would be issued your license. We would require  some insurance uh to cover problems that happen at   hotels, motel, and we would issue these licenses  every year. We would uh we started with the idea   of a $200 license fee uh per year regardless of  size. I have found uh that some cities uh will   issue fees based on size of the establishment.  Um some just have an overall fee. I have a few   comparisons for you. Independence, Missouri has a  $300 fee. Jackson County 160. St. Charles is $450,   but it's every two years instead of every year.  Um Callaway County, Missouri is 200. Kansas City,   Missouri is 150 to 350. That one depends on  the size of the establishment. I will Jan I   do have a question. Any in Kansas? Um the can  there's a Kansas City Kansas and uh there's I   cannot remember the the feed that they use but  Kansas City Kansas has a hotel motel licensing.   I haven't looked at Topeka. I need to do that. Um  I was really mainly Missouri has a lot of them.   So I focus most of my research there. I will move  and make sure I've done Topeka. Um, Kansas City,   Missouri is the only one that had a sliding scale  based on size. Uh, the only reason I'm I'm moving   us, my suggestion is a $200 fee period is it's  still a reasonable fee. Um, and it would be less   work to determine the size and proving the size  and instead just pick a middle amount of 200. Jan,   another uh question regarding uh fees. So, do each  of these hotel motel that get a license from the   Kansas Department of Agriculture, what's their  fee or is there a fee? There is a fee and it's   a sliding scale also. I didn't include that. Um,  but they and that was one of the complaints is is   just more money that they're going to owe and  and I my memory is it's about the same amount.   And does Missouri have the Missouri Department of  Agriculture license and then a city license? They   have a state license. I don't know that it's under  Department of Agriculture, but there So, they also   pay for two licenses then. Yeah. Yes. And and  I know that some people wonder um you know,   why do you want these licenses? It's just more  control. It's just more money. I got to tell you,   this is not a money-making opportunity. Um $200  isn't going to pay for all of the people in the   city who are going to have to put effort into  into working on this issue. department of light   our licensing our department of finance already  have so many licenses this is a big ask of them   uh and and they're always willing but it's a big  ask because it's a lot of licenses which I think   is on my next slide we'll we'll get to that but  it's about 106 licenses um our complaint procedure   would be uh related to lodging establishments  with complaints from citizens um perhaps from   police uh visible violations that would make  them subject to inspection. Uh if in inspection,   we would have MABCD. I've talked to them and and  figure out trying to figure out how they can spare   a few people to help us with some inspections.  Um police, fire would eventually have to be part   of the inspection. I haven't wrapped them into  this conversation yet. I've started with MABCD.   But if you get to the point where we're doing  our own inspections because there have been   complaints or there are visible violations, then  you have to figure out whether or not you have   lifethreatening issues or non-lifethreatening  issues. Um, the point of this ordinance is not   to revoke someone's license or suspend someone's  license because they have minor violations. Uh,   the point is to get them cleaned up, to  get them looking good in the community,   uh, to get the complaints taken care of, and to  make sure everyone's safe. So they would issue   a basically like a notice of violation like MABC  does now and that would be the start. Obviously   it'd be different if you have life uh health life  health safety issues then we might have to work   into immediate suspension if if people's lives are  in danger. I can tell you from experience we have   in the past filed injunctions on some motel. Uh we  found at one of the motel a few years ago I did an   injunction on that they had an upper deck and it  was a life safety issue. It could have collapsed   at any time and when we brought the state in from  the department of agriculture they shut them down   because they found it was not safe for citizens to  walk on that walkway and they had to they had to   invest a whole lot of money in order to make it  work. We have other motel right now where we've   had to bring in the department of a where they  found that well where there were fires and there   are holes um where there are like rotten spots  uh and it's open to the elements. Um there's   all kinds of issues uh that could be addressed  through this ordinance. Um lodging establishments,   you know, we have the chronic nuisance ordinance.  Uh, and if you have a lot of crime coming from any   establishment, be it a lodging establishment, be  it somebody's home, be it an apartment complex,   the police department can declare that area  a a chronic nuisance. And all that means,   just to remind you, is you have a meeting with  the owner of the property, you develop a plan   to address the problem. If they follow the  plan that you have developed, then we would   not bill them for services. But if they refuse  to develop a plan or if they don't follow the   plan that they develop, then they're deemed a  chronic nuisance. And we would use that against   their license. If if they're deemed a chronic  nuisance under this ordinance and they're not   following the plan that they created or they've  refused to create a plan, then their license   could be suspended or revoked. So, it's another  arm that we can use with that chronic nuisance.   Um I already told you that we the goal would not  to be suspend for a single incident. Um we would   include some rules that lodging establishments  cannot charge by the hour and if we found out   that they were that they would face administrative  penalty or suspension or revocation depending on   the number of violations they've had for  that. Um we would include as a condition   of license that the establishment is up to date  on all monies owed to the city of Witchah. So,   if they're supposed to be taking in some sort of  tax and they're not doing that, um that could get   them suspended or revoked. If they owe some  sort of uh administrative penalty, if if they   were in trouble in the past and we gave them an  administrative penalty and they refused to pay it,   they could get suspended or revoked for failing  to pay. Um if there were parking fees that they   refused to pay, then then they could get their  license revoked or suspended for that as well. So,   it's just another idea of how we can enforce some  of the rules honestly that we already have. Um,   and as I already said that lodging establishments  would have to follow their chronic nuisance plan   if they if they have one. So, Witchah currently  has 106 hotels and motel that are licensed by the   state of Kansas. And we know that a challenge for  this license thought pros and cons seemed kind of   negative, so I said challenges. Um our challenge  is our licensing department which would have to   um look at 106 more licenses. And it's  not just licensing that looks. Um we put   those on license track and those go around to  different departments. The police department   would have to have a person look at all the  applications. The law department would have   to have a person look at all the applications.  Maybe MABCD. So it is it is additional work,   but but we do think it's probably worth it. um  MABCD, fire and police would have to perform these   inspections. The reason we're not suggesting we do  them all in the initial licensing phase is there   just isn't enough staff, but I do think we could  keep up with uh inspections as problems arise. So,   that's the idea. The possible benefits though are  many. Um we can engage with lodging establishments   regarding complaints sooner and we don't have  to rely on the state to do it. um we can make an   impact uh sooner and and be more responsive to the  complaints we're getting from the community. We   can inspect the interior of lodging establishments  without the state being present. We do have the   ability to do that with the fire department.  I'm not saying and even MABCD. I'm not saying   we don't have the right to do some inspections,  but it will lead us to the ones when we do it on   complaint base, it'll give us the ability to go  in faster and get it done. and we can develop a   team to do that so they're more prepared. Um, we  can enforce trash and nuisance problems easier   uh than the notice of violation with MABCD. Um, we  get a call on about two uh hotel motel uh several   times a year on complaints of trash. So, uh, if  they knew that their license was being impacted,   if they didn't get that cleaned up, uh, then  we're hoping that maybe that would be something   that would would get them to clean it up on their  own without us always have to go there and asking   them to clean it up or telling them to clean it  up. Um, and we can address address establishments   that are not addressing the current uh, chronic  nuisance status. So, this is early. Um, we're   trying to take our time on this one to make sure  we get it right. Uh, we know it's going to be a   lot of work for people, but the police department  is interested in this. They would like more tools   on how to deal with some of the problems. We have  a lot of, uh, high crime areas. They're emanating   from hotels and motel. In the past, we have sued  three that I that I did personally, and it is a   very long and laborious task to go to district  court and sue. um we could have just as much   control if we had a licensing uh structure and we  would instead of suing them we would take them to   uh we would take their license if they refused  to uh comply with the licensing uh restrictions.   Questions or thoughts? What was the cost of the  three establishments three establishments that   were sued? What was the actual cost to the city  to follow through that process? Well, it it it's   staff time. Uh no no additional staff time. It  was my time and a lot of police officers that put   in a lot of time um putting together the amount of  crime reports that came from those establishments. Some brief comments. Uh first, I want to  admit that my mind was changed on this   through conversations with you and particularly  uh Councilman O'High as well. isn't supportive of   uh some of these regulations and maybe licensing  requirements regarding hourly motel and I think   both of you changed my opinion about why this  is necessary. So, thank you for the work on this   first and foremost. Uh there were a few things  in there that I maybe have a few questions on.   I also wanted to echo there was part of here  that right now we have to rely on the state and   echo Councilman Johnson's point from earlier. We  should rely on the state or the federal government   for most of these things. So, I'm glad that we  are uh licensing this in house. Um, regarding   digital licensing, and this would be more of a  question for the manager. I know we've talked   about now our licensing requirements going through  a portal. I know that we're only bringing a few on   at the start to make it easier for businesses to  submit applications. Would this be something that   would be easy to onboard into that licensing tool  so we don't have to do handwritten licensing like   we've done previously? That would be our goal.  Um, again, we're just starting that process and   have identified a vendor or actually taking vendor  proposals. Um, we will add that to the list. Uh,   in a perfect world, it' be great if no one had  to come into city hall, fill out paperwork,   could do all of that online. Good. Well, thank  you for taking steps on that. I think that's a   huge one for the community and hopefully this will  also make that easier. Licensing 160 of these. Uh,   there's two more questions that I have.  Uh, first off, West Kellogg. We had a   shutdown uh or the state shut down a hotel  in West Kellogg last winter. Unfortunately,   we were just given very short notice. It was in  the winter months. It was right before. And so I   want to hear about uh that transition. How  did we how did the city of Witchaw help in   u making sure that individuals living there  were uh taken to at that time it was the MAC   now Second Light. Can we talk about that  as like a case study of what went well and   what went wrong and maybe how this will make  this better in the future? We had a staff team   that was put together. Council member and  uh Sally, do you want to talk about that? Thank you, Council Member Glascock Sally Stag with  the housing department. Again, for the record,   it was a real world whirlwind. We did not get much  notice. Um, I got a call about 9:30 in the morning   saying, "This is going to happen. We're not sure  when the state uh fire marshall is going to show   up to shut this down." At that point we uh you  know were working in tandem with the Witchaw   Police Department. We called in uh United Way  sent their some of their staff over and it was   actually one by one meeting with people who were  staying there to figure out what is the next step.   Can they go to another hotel? Are they a veteran  who could get services through the VA? Could we   get them convince people to go over to Second  Light? It was all day long and and the transit   department stepped in. They were phenomenal  because people had to take all the things   with them too. So many people were staying there  more like a permanent residence. So there was a   lot of things to be gathered. Um we were pretty  successful. Most people we were able to place   that night in some sort of um either shelter or  connect them to another hotel or another resource.   There were a few that refused assistance. Um  we did come together afterwards to go what   happened? How did we do? what can we do better?  Um and and we realize that we need that constant   communication between different organizations. Um  more notice would be absolutely fabulous because   then we could prepare and have resources aligned  before getting there and this ordinance would give   us the ability to have more notice for those.  That's exactly right. We'd have control over   when we would execute. So that would give us some  advanced planning time. Well, thank you. I want   to say thank you to your team um and everybody  that stepped up last year in that time. Uh I was   only maybe on one or two of the conversations and  you guys led especially when our hands were tied   by the state and I think it was a success story of  how so many departments came together to make sure   that people could help. So this may be a question  for you maybe a question for Jan or the manager   um regarding that's something that I don't want  to exacerbate through this ordinance is increasing   our homelessness as well and homeless population.  It's more shutting down motel because they're out   of compliance. Well, then those individuals likely  will have nowhere else to go but the streets. So,   how can we make sure that's mitigated by this  ordinance? And maybe it will be mitigated because   we're trying to get them in compliance quicker and  make sure that people have a higher standard of   living in these facilities. Though this maybe  it's not ideal for people to live in hotels,   but we know that people are. I I can definitely  speak to that. Uh I the WPD and I talk about that   on a on a very consistent basis that some hotels  and motel are alternatives to shelters and it is   where when a family can't go to a shelter  sometimes they'll go to lowerc cost hotels   and motel and that is true across this country and  you can Google this issue and it is one that's not   just our problem it's everyone's problem that with  that sometimes comes problems but we it's good   for all of us to keep them open. Um, we need more  housing and we think that if we intervene sooner,   uh, that we can keep them from being shut down.  That motel you're talking about, the one that did   shut down is a great example. Um, they have now,  uh, I personally, the PD and I went over and met   with them at another location. They have multiple  locations in the city and they're about to enough   time has passed. They may have already opened  the other location that was shut down. They're   opening it in sections. um because we got their  attention and they're now putting some money into   it and they are making it better. And I'm hoping  this type of ordinance will get the companies to   invest sooner and make it better so we don't get  to the point where we're telling everybody they   have to get out. Maybe we could do it in phases.  If we if we do an inspection and find the motel   not to be if it's if it's a life safety issue,  they're going to have to leave. But if it's not,   um maybe we could shut the motel down. That was  a pretty big one. So you could shut it down in   phases um so you don't have to evict or tell a  lot of people that they have to leave. So that   is a good ending to that story. I think what they  found out in that story also was that it was the   management that was causing a lot of the problems  and they have changed the management. So when they   start opening it again in the phases, they have  the person who's running the other location who   is going to manage both and she does a fantastic  job. Um so there's hope in all of this. The point   of this is not to shut everyone down. The point  is to intervene early and and try to get some of   the problems taken care of. Well, I know most of  the challenges we have are along West Kellwalk in   my district and South Broadway in Mike's district  as well. So, thank you. Thank you. Look forward   to I I I can I I would like to highlight also  this ordinance should allow us to keep people   from praying on some of our more vulnerable  residents that are living in these situations.   So, some of it has to do with the management  of the properties in poor conditions,   but a lot of it has to do with illegal activities  and people taking advantage of those residents. It   I I I should say that I have had conversations  and it's not just those areas you talk about.   It's extreme east, extreme west. I'm getting I  talked to management all over and they want help.   They do. There are many hotels, motel that call  and say, "How can I how can I get people out?"   um they they want to do things, they're just  not sure how. Law can't give them the answer.   I'm not their attorney. I can't advise them  to evict people. Um but it but these are not   um all owners who are absolutely unwilling.  Some of them need to be given the tools and   I'm hoping we can help develop some tools for  them without giving them legal advice. But uh just one question. Um, just a clarification,  when it talks about all monies owed to the city   of Witchah, does that include uh any  property taxes that have not been paid? I mean, it doesn't the way it's written, but it  could if if you think that is a good idea, we   could definitely include that. Okay, let's think  on that. I I would prefer that because that's a   number of the hotels that we do have issues with.  They do wait until the very last minute. They're   five years behind and then they pay to stay just  right before the auction hits. You're right. So,   thank you. Thank you. Thank you, city manager.  Thank you, mayor. Um, I didn't hear a lot of   suggestions for changes, so we probably will keep  moving forward to bring an ordinance to you this   fall. Thank you. The last item is actually  the start of what I think will be an ongoing   conversation. I don't believe we'll get through  this conversation uh this morning, but the uh we   want the council was asked to revisit our economic  development guidelines and uh Troy Anderson is   going to start that conversation with you. I  expect a robust discussion. Please, you're never   bashful anyway, but please don't be bashful. There  are a lot of issues here that uh have come up in   previous reviews. The whole idea is to try to get  a set of guidelines that give predictability for   incentives and other city assistance going forward  on economic development projects. Uh thank you,   city manager, honorable mayor, members of  council, Troy Anderson, assistant city manager.   Um, as the city manager indicated, this is a a  status update. Uh, this is, um, kind of showing   you some of the progress we made, how we continue  to fine-tune, uh, make revisions. It's kind of a   work in progress. Uh, and so some of your feedback  here today will also help us um, deliver a final   product in the coming weeks and months. But  um just to kind of back up a little bit uh   remind everybody about some of the underlying  foundational goals and objectives that we're   ultimately trying to to achieve and maintain. Um  remember we're going back to the conversations   we had last year during the three-part worksharp  series. We're going to continue to build upon that   2019 local incentive policy analysis. Um, we're  going to continue to make sure that we reinforce   what it is that we're trying to accomplish, right?  Begin with the end in mind. We want to achieve   economic growth and prosperity, right? What does  that mean? That means Witchaw's open for business.   We want to continue to keep that at the forefront  of all of our minds. Um that means macroeconomic   stability, removing barriers and aligning those  strategic investments with those community goals   and objectives that the city has already adopted  and already put forward. Um you'll hear a little   bit more about some of that. So some of the  key takeaways from those 2024 workshops again   continue to build upon the work before us. Um we  want to shift the risk away from the taxpayer.   We want to make sure that any incentives are  first and foremost performance-based. Uh and   otherwise again we want to continue to remove  barriers, promote economic growth and welfare,   broaden diversify the tax base, encourage capital  investment and spur employment opportunities.   So, one of the big shifts that we're going  to make in the guidelines, not necessarily   um um individual amendments, is just how the  guidelines are formatted, how the guidelines are   restructured. We're going to move away from more  of the traditional programbased organization and   more to the incentivebased type of organizational  structure. Again, remembering that programs   um are things like industrial revenue bonds or  tax increment financing or community improvement   districts. Those are the actual programs that  achieve the incentive. Um the incentives are the   things that we actually have in the toolbox by any  other name remains the same. Those are property   tax abatement, property tax rebate, sales tax  exemption, sales tax rebate, so on and so forth.   The other thing we're going to introduce in this  uh process is uh we really want to begin to kind   of standardize the process regardless of what  the application type looks like, right? We want   to standardize the application process. We want  to standardize the review process. We want to   standardize the approval process. There's going  to be some nuances just because under state law,   some um some programs require certain things  like a public hearing where others don't. So,   there'll be some deviation in that, but for the  most part, we want to standardize that approval.   And then ultimately that compliance process,  right, reporting requirements, monitoring,   so on and so forth. That'll all get  laid out in the new guidelines. Troy,   can you address something really quick? I  think um prior to this council and even some   uh most recent councils have moved away from  the city giving a check to a developer. That   is not the practice of this council nor in  recent years. Can you address that because   I think that is one of the things that um we want  to make sure we don't do. Um, again, number one,   we don't have the dollars, and number two, we're  not cutting checks to specific individuals. Yeah,   absolutely. Uh, put simply, yes, the city's  not giving any money away. If you look at the   incentive types that are on, uh, the screen in  front of you, right? It is it is exempting or   abating things like property tax or sales tax,  right? It's rebating. And when we say rebating,   it's that those property taxes are paid or those  sales taxes are paid and then through a review,   audit, compliance process, those are then rebated  back to reimburse an owner developer for certain   eligible expenses. To your point, absolutely  nothing on the screen here has anything that would   suggest that the city is handing over sort of  cold hard cash to anybody to go do anything. Um, but thank you for that. Yes. Okay. Um, I'll just  kind of breeze through this a little bit. Like   I said, we want to continue to create greater  alignment with those goals and objectives. Um,   those start from kind of a hierarchy, that  overarching community investment plan. That's   the comprehensive plan. Spun out of that. Uh, f  future land use strategies. future land use plan   came places for people. Uh there were some really  great uh concepts in there that we just really   didn't latch on to. We're going to continue  to uh reinforce. Those are the things around   uh neighborhood investment framework,  evolution of revitalizing neighborhoods,   concepts like adjacency, momentum, things like  nodes and corridors. Um you're going to see a lot   more of that coming into the guidelines and  again trying to align goals and objectives.   um also project witchah regional growth plan  specifically those uh uh those regional growth   plan sectors. So one of the things that we really  wanted to highlight seems like it's been a a point   of conversation over the last year as we've come  out of the uh workshops last year and that is our   our property tax abatement kind of schedule uh  matrix. This is how it looks in the guidelines   today. Uh so depending on the capital investment  that is being made, the jobs that are being   created, perhaps some of these other ancillary uh  you know, is it a regional growth plan sector? Are   they utilizing state federal utility incentives?  you could begin to build an incentive stack   that could achieve potentially 100% property tax  abatement uh using and this is primarily tailored   towards the revenue bond uh incentive type. Um and  so one of the first things we started looking at   uh is some of those areas in which arguably  historically nobody's ever really taken advantage   of. Right? Nobody's ever really taken advantage of  the sustainable development um percentage or the   entrepreneurship or the talent attraction plan or  the community and workforce development benefits.   So, one of the first things we uh suggest to do  is just striking those nobody's ever really taken   advantage of. Uh and instead, what we're going to  try and propose, this is a draft. This is still   a work in progress. In fact, I'd love to kind of  present you with maybe an alternative that we're   working through uh and analyzing, but this is  built on what we've using is is the three-legged   stool when we talk about economic development,  right? That's a category. One leg of the stool is   uh stool is capital investment. Uh the second leg  of the stool is job creation. Uh and the third   leg of the stool is uh quality of life and quality  of place. One of the subsets of that is just that   alignment with community goals and objectives.  So if you can imagine kind of behind this is this   idea of could I achieve a a maximum 30% in the  capex capital investment leg? Could I then achieve   up to 30% in the job creation? I'll explain  the the units here in just a second. or then   could I achieve a 30% in um the the quality of  life, quality of place, alignment with goals and   objectives sort of leg and then if I'm achieving  all three legs, kind of that holistic approach,   do I then obtain sort of that additional 10%  bonus to potentially get to 100% property tax   abatement? Um but it's really building on sort  of a holistic of approach around those three legs   of the economic development stool. Thanks,  Troy. Um, just two things real quick. Um,   council member Glass had maybe a year ago or two.  I mean, time flies on council, right? Yeah. Uh,   talked about a step down process to where it was,  for example, 100% at the beginning of the 10 years   of the IRB and then stepping down 10% a year  up until 10%. Uh, was that given any thought in   this and kind of what are your thoughts or the  development team's thoughts on that? Yeah. So,   uh I mean technically that option exists for a  owner developer today. So, let me explain, right?   Um if for whatever reason, let's say a project  qualifies for a 60% property tax abatement, right?   If you quantify the value of that incentive,  right, whether or not that is sort of front-loaded   over the first two or three years, whether that  is is um flat across the entire 10-year term or   whether it's backloaded. I don't know why anybody  would want to backload that. The idea is that you   could quantify what the value of that incentive  is and then we could spread it across however many   years as necessary. Um that option exists today.  Um nobody's ever really taken advantage of it.   Most folks have taken the the the perspective of  if I qualify for a 60% I'll take the 60% across   all 10 years. But theoretically, we could quantify  what the value of that incentive is and you could   frontload it. For example, maybe it's 100% over  the first three years and then it just falls off,   right? Or maybe it's 100% 90% 80%. I we could  do whatever sort of math. At the end of the day,   it's all just math, right? But making sure, and  we showed a slide during the last year's workshop,   right, that kind of illustrated this a little bit.  I don't have that with me today but depending on   um how we approach this right obviously 100%  abatement over 10 years you wouldn't be able to   do this and the higher percentages 90% you would  see a gradual um but it certainly exists today and   we could continue to offer it up in the future. Um  this was achieving a calculation of figuring out   what percentage of property tax abatement might  be eligible given this holistic approach. How it   plays out over the term is is certainly something  we're open to. Okay. Uh the second thing is when   we look at the revisions is there is there any  consideration for having something specialty uh   specially for housing? That is something that we  definitely want to encourage people to do. I know   such as Vice Mayor Johnston talking about um the  public coming alongside to build some additional   affordable housing units uh kind of what are  our thoughts and explorations of that. Yeah,   that's a great segue into really kind of diving  into the next layer of this. So, thank you so   much. I appreciate the the T segue the foresight  here. Yes. Um, one of the biggest things that,   uh, you know, we're going to you're going to  see introduced into the economic development   guidelines is just housing and housing in general,  right? Traditionally, our economic development   guidelines have concentrated been focused on um,  industry, manufacturing, um, commercial, but we   know and understand the need in this community  in and around housing, right? So, traditionally,   and if you go back up to kind of our stand our  our existing model as you see it on the slide   in front of you, there's nothing in here that's  taken into consideration for housing other than   the capital investment maybe, you know, location  within a redevelopment area. Right? So what we've   introduced here is we know that housing doesn't  generally translate to a lot of job creation,   but it does satisfy at least locally that need in  our community. Um if if again we're thinking about   that three-legged stool and a holistic approach  where you might not necessarily find a lot of job   creation, we've introduced the idea that um if for  whatever reason you were to create, for example,   in the first tier 18 to 36 new dwelling units per  acre, you could achieve perhaps 20% property tax   abatement. If you were to achieve a higher  density, 36 to 72 dwelling units per acre   and maybe kind of a tier 2 approach, you could  achieve 25% property tax abatement. And again,   this is not additive. This is kind of one of those  tier structures, right? Or if you're creating more   than 72 dwelling units per acre, a higher density  product, you could achieve up to the 30% in that   leg of the stool. Um, and so that's how we've  introduced the housing component into the model   to make sure that we're being responsive to the  need of housing in the community. Um, we're still   keeping some of the other, as you see down below,  and this is where I'm going to segue into another   iteration of this that we're we're analyzing,  we're looking. of if I can achieve up to 30% in   capital investment if I can achieve up to 30%  in either employment or in housing units that   other 30% you see their alignment with goals and  objectives maximum 30% one approach one idea was   okay are you also then utilizing state or federal  utility incentives could achieve that other 30%   locating in a node or corridor you'll notice that  Um we have removed the the redevelopment area um   that exists in the guidelines today. We're going  to migrate toward this idea of nodes and corridors   which was a concept that was um introduced in the  places for people plan. Um or for example, if I'm   bringing an employer that is part of a regional  growth plan sector, maybe each one of those on   its own, you could achieve 30%. The alternative  to that that we're playing around with is creating   more of a buffet style where maybe the maximum  in each one of those is 10%. And that you have to   begin to kind of put together, okay, I'm utilizing  state and federal utility incentives 10%. I'm   bringing a regional growth plan sector 10% and it  might have a half dozen other somebody suggested   the other day uh maybe if there is a percentage of  equity above and beyond you know a typical 10 15   20% that's being brought to the table maybe that  could achieve a greater kind of a 10% right that   way we're we're we're minimizing the the incentive  that is being offered erred sort of across the   table, right? And so if there's more equity that's  being brought to the table, that could be maybe an   additional uh alignment with goals and objectives  and eventually they could choose through sort   of a buffet style how to get to that 30%. But  then again, if I'm bringing capital investment,   if I'm bringing jobs or units, if I'm aligning the  strategic goals and objectives, if I can get to a   30, 30, and 30, then you might also introduce  that 10% bonus by kind of checking each one of   those boxes and then ultimately trying to get to  a possibly 100%. Yes. Can we back up a little bit?   Sure. Um, so if somebody does, we just approved  a couple projects that have 50% tax payment.   So, what I hear you saying is they could do that  stairst step plan if they if they wanted to. 90 80   70 60 50. Yes. Why wouldn't they do that? I'm I'm  sure they would probably do that if they if they   know it was available. I would do that. I would  take everything up front I could on the front end.   It's entirely up to their investors and and  as long as it equals that 50% on the 10-year   term. Sure. Okay. Any consideration given to  just oneoffs, single lots, infill lots? What   what would an infill lot would could apply to  anything or does it have to be five units or a   million dollars? So if if you look at the numbers  right we we also tried to balance we heard from   uh council right that one of the reasons why some  of the original numbers were put in here. So,   for example, five jobs, creating five jobs is  not a really high benchmark, right? For all   intents and purposes, a million-doll project  nowadays is not that sort of unfallenable,   right? Like pretty small renovations run up a  million dollar tap pretty quickly, right? So,   one of the comments that we heard from the  governing body, right, was making sure that   we're not ruling out the opportunity for small and  emerging businesses to take advantage of the tools   that we have in our toolbox, that it shouldn't  just be for the large scale projects. So,   for example, a million-doll project that maybe  is only creating 18 to 36 dwelling units per   acre or five jobs quickly could achieve 40%  if they're located in a node or corridor,   they could achieve an additional percentage,  right? And pretty soon you could see that even   a small project, even small businesses, even small  projects could achieve. Now, an individual lot,   an individual infill development lot probably  isn't achieving at least this benchmark.   There's a lot especially when you're talking about  revenue bonds. Okay, when you're talking about   revenue bonds, especially when you're talking  about property tax abatement, which is what we're   modeling here, there is there's a lot of expense  that goes into that, right? You almost have to   kind of hit these thresholds. You have to get  above the this bar. You have to get above in order   for the juice to be worth the squeeze, right? You  might spend 30,4 $50,000 on legal fees and if your   project doesn't isn't of a certain investment,  etc., you're not going to make that money back.   I get that on revenue IVS and stuff like that.  But what about just a single lot? Is there any   chance infill lot to have a some sort of property  tax abatement to incentivize those lots being   utilized? We've already got the utilities there,  streets, water, sewer, everything. Yeah. So,   there's a program uh that exists out there that  is not in our economic development guidelines.   In fact, that's one of the um good segue. Uh so,  there's a program out there that exists. In fact,   we used to have one in which it was about 12 to 15  years ago that ultimately it um it was canceled,   it was terminated. There's a program under the  state called the Neighborhood Revitalization Act,   right? And what it is is it if it works similar  to tax increment financing, right? where basically   the the value of the property maybe it's a  individual single lot that is is unimproved   right the the base value much like in a tiff model  if it is redeveloped right it's the property tax   increase that then can be rebated back to that  property owner for the investment that they made   and the basically the tax value that they have  created as a result of it basically works much   like tiff in the context that it is a property  tax rebate program. Okay. Um under NRA you have   to create a district and basically that district  is a is an interlocal agreement between school   district, county and city. Um and then it's each  of those taxing jurisdictions agrees to sort of   rebate back right or give up those those property  tax. Um, again, very similar to tax increment and   financing. We used to have one on the books  about 12, 15 years ago for whatever reason,   and I don't know exactly, I'm going to probably  butcher this, right? But school district pulled   out, said, "This isn't really working for us."  There was a really large district. Eventually,   county came with, "Yep, this isn't working for  us." City kind of folded up, too. But it does   exist. We started having conversations  with school districts uh up until about   um spring summer of last year, right? Uh with  school they were amendable to re re-engaging   the conversations. Uh they were a little more  concerned with kind of a general entire ECA and   they were when we introduced the concept of node  and corridor they were a little more amendable to   kind of trying to put it into a box. But there  is a program out there that exists today that   could for individual lots, urban infill lots, etc.  NRA would be a really good program for something   like that. Sound looks like a lot of work, a lot  of paperwork. It is. Looks like getting a lot of   people on board. Yep. For one house, infield  lot. Nah, probably not worth it. Is there any   way we can do a property tax abatement for that  lot? I know this is the program, but this convers rehabilitation of existing housing stock as well.  And so at its peak, I can't remember how many we   had, but we had a good number of properties that  had been upgraded. I don't know that we had as   much new construction as we did rehabilitation  work that was done. And it was I it wasn't a bad   program and I think we probably would still have  it in existence if the county and school district   had said they wanted to stay in. You have to  remember when that happened when they pulled   out we were at the bottom of the recession and  they were concerned about giving those dollars   away and I think they also wondered whether or  not they should be a player in encouraging infill   development. We had not done places for people  yet. We had not established any kind of clear   guidelines. So, um, obviously we've talked a lot  about affordable housing. All of us are going to   continue to talk about that. That could we'll  look at whether this is the one of the right   tools. I think Troy's highlighting it to say  this is one of many tools that could help us   address that issue. Um, but you're right, it is uh  labor intensive. We have to process those rebate   checks. I do want to pause if we can for just  a second. I'd like to go to the previous slide. this our economic development policy as the  mayor mentioned has evolved over a period of   time. However, there was a a a point when we  had a different three-legged stool regarding   economic development. The project first of all  had to have a public purpose and mostly that was   capital investment and job creation. The second  piece of it was that there had to be a sufficient   return on investment to the city and today that's  it has to exceed one to one. And then and back   then it was higher. I think it was 1.3 to one if  I remember correctly. And then the last was there   had to be a proven gap. Some of you have talked  to me about this gap recently and I wanted to   pause right now because this is a formula that  doesn't necessarily take that into account. Um,   I like what Troy was talking about in terms  of equity and substantial investment by the   business. I think it's more important to me  that they are providing that private equity   in a project than if they went out and got state  and federal and utility dollars to help finance   their program or their capital expenditures.  Doesn't mean that it it still not important,   but I think they should be rewarded  more for investing their own dollars.   But I I'd be curious of how you want to talk  about the gap in this context because we're   not taking that into account here. Um and instead  you're achieving you're really heavily looking at   their capital investment and their job creation  and then some other factors that help them.   I would concur that uh the equity portion  should be emphasized here especially having   the conversation earlier that a lot of state  dollars and even federal dollars may not be in   existence and this takes into account that they  could they will forever be there well that's not   um guaranteed so if someone is willing to put up  that equity higher than what they currently would   I think they should be incentivized because  they are putting more of their own investment   and more of their own risk into play and that is  not being captured here. Well, and I want to echo   I think what the manager said. It's in my notes.  I was going to ask it at the end. Um, regarding   a gap analysis, I don't believe that there's no  way that every project is unsustainable without   government support. And I don't think it we should  just be approving every single application that   comes before us when there may not be a gap  to that project. I don't think it's our job   to mitigate every single risk that a business has  in opening up something. Yes, if we can make it   easier in bringing a large-scale investment or  jobs, then maybe we should look at that. Um,   and I think we should look at that a case by case  basis, but our job is not to mitigate every single   risk that a private business has when they come  before us. And I want to see that there is a gap.   And if if the industry comes back and says that  every single project in the city is unsustainable   without some type of government assistance and  we have a much larger macro problem to address   that if every single project has to be supported  by the government in some capacity. So I'd be very   interested in some gap analysis as being part of  the equation. Um I don't think just because you   come and request something you should be given it.  Um, it should be based on that there is a gap that   we need and that you might need public assistance  to cover if there's a public role for the project   as well based on either capital investment or new  jobs created. I support um also having that gap   analysis as part of the project, but I would like  to see some additional goals and objectives. And I   might just be by myself on this one, but if there  was an opportunity to highlight blended rent at a   certain amount, so a thousand and below, maybe  there's some incentive there if there's blended   rent. So that's not saying every unit is that,  but if there's blended rent at 1,200 a month,   you know, some maybe lesser incentive there, but  some way to show uh in black and white that we   want to see more workforce housing opportunities.  And to council member Glascock's point, that may   show a real gap. If you have to have a new build  and you want to keep rents that low, it may show   a gap. But I think highlighting that is good. And  it also shows that this body really wants to see   more workforce housing. I know that's expensive to  some people, but just looking at the market today,   it's not. Uh but if we maybe could highlight maybe  some of those levels in the goals and objectives.   The issue of gap is not easy because it takes into  account return on investment for the investor.   So we would want to spend some time with the  partnership and others and maybe get the council   to approve some thresholds um by project type. I  mean it will take some work. Um it can't be just   because otherwise it becomes a seat of the pants  analysis and an eyeball um type of determination.   I don't think that's what we want. But if  that's the direction you want us to go,   we can talk more about that and try to bring you  some concepts. Yeah, I mean I agree. Our job is   not to just increase the profits for shareholders  in a company. I want to make sure that there is   a need for us to be involved in this process  and not just increase their revenue margins.   But it has to be market driven because that you  know somebody may say in order for this to work I   need a 20% return on my investment and that may  sound on its face to be exorbitant but in the   industry anything less than that and they're  not going to make that investment. So and it   probably is industry by industry specific. It  isn't just a blanket um over all industries. I   know this is a staff presentation but Andrew do  you have any initial thoughts? I do. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, manager, mayor, and members of the  council. Thank you for the the discussion. Um,   I would say that um absolutely a worthwhile  endeavor to have a GABA analysis as you all are   um the um as the governing body are looking out  for the the public's use of these funds. That's   a a pretty complicated question when we're talking  about the different types of projects. So, keep in   mind what we've historically seen this matrix  used for is for primary industry development,   whether that's job creation or capital investment  in primary industries. And what we all long since   forgotten since freshman econ class, primary  industries are those industries that bring   dollars into your economy. It's base economic  theory. We are trying to grow the economic   base of our community. Too many times I think in  economic development we have conflated the the the   discussion or the debate on incentives about big  versus small has nothing to do with necessarily   the size of the company although that's a proxy  for us to see a a sense of scale and impact on the   economy. The bigger the company, the more job  creation, the more investment, the larger the   impact in the economy. But I think too many times  we get conflated with well it's a big company it's   a manufacturer that we care about. We don't care  about the small company. What we should care about   is where are their customers and where do those  dollars come from. That's the most important   thing. We are trying to grow the economy. In a  21st century economy that gets really complicated   because historically 50 years ago it's pretty  easy. Your retail business was selling to this   retail geography. That's no more. Businesses  sell all over the all over the place now.   and your manufacturer that used to only export  internationally or to a core set of customers now   have customers locally, too. So, it's definitely  gotten more confused and more conflated, but I   never want us to lose track of we're going after  base economic. We're trying to import wealth into   this economy. Historically also when we've used  gap analysis most of my experience of doing this   20 years over two states use a gap analysis  in a lot of ways but primarily when we when   the city is exposed using city or county funds.  Think of tax financing when we're incentivizing   a development whether it's we typically don't  do um publicly funded or financed tiff projects   here. We do pay as you go tiff in this community.  that historically you've seen a gap analysis used   when the public is backstopping the financing  of like a tiff project. I don't know of a single   community in Kansas that does a true gap analysis  on a manufacturing tax abatement request. Partly   because what my team sees is when we get those is  about competition. that manufacturer is deciding   where to plant, where to site that plant, where  to put that manufacturing facility in Witchah   or in Bair in our market or maybe in Kansas City  or maybe in Tulsa or maybe in Texas or locally,   if we're working with an expansion, sometimes  it's not about geographic competition where that   local Witchah machine shop is looking to expand  to another place. They're not likely going to do   that, but it's a competition for their resources.  Are they going to invest in their building and   their physical infrastructure this year? Are  they going to buy down their stock? Are they   going to invest in their building and expand their  facility? Or are they going to buy new equipment?   Are they going to go into a new market? So, it's  always about competition. What are we competing   against? Another geography or we competing for  those resources. So, I would encourage the council   to keep a a very keen mind on competition. I have  a report that I was going to jump up and highlight   from a national site selection group called  site selection group. That's the 2025 report   that shows a doubling, a 2x increase in national  economic development incentivized projects from   2023 to 2024. More than 4,000 projects have  been incentivized at some level nationally.   That was double the year before. Obviously, a  lot of that's a rise coming out of CO. So, we've   seen lots of things increase from a development  perspective, but incentives are getting more and   more competitive across the country. Kansas is the  lowest state of our surrounding states to offer   economic incentives. So I caution whether that's  at the state level or here at the local level.   Everything we do to to reduce our competitiveness  gives me concern and gives me caution. How do we   make sure that we're more competitive? Absolutely  need to be evaluating these these programs   effectively and their use 100%. But I I want to  keep a keen eye on competition because now with   the advent of new industries coming in, we did not  see five years ago when we updated this policy,   the industries that we have today. Evatl, drones,  space, defense, our office has seen a 4x increase   in those types of projects. We're seeing more of  those projects which are capital intensive more   than other industries, more than your traditional  job creation projects. data centers. You're going   to hear me come before you and working with  Troy Steam right now on data center projects.   That's a whole different type of project. There's  very little job creation and massive amounts of   capital investment, massive amounts of honestly  tax tax revenue. So, the industries have shifted,   competitiveness has shifted. I just counsel you  to be very cautious when we look at making our   toolbox and these these tools uh less competitive.  I I would echo what Troy talked about the NRA.   Most of my career, the communities that I've been  in have utilized the NRA program. When I got here   a number of years ago, I was frustrated that we  that that tool had expired. JB, it's a very very   powerful tool. And the beauty of it you you keyed  on the key the key issue is is the complexity of   the tool. Ironically, the complexity of the tools  at the front end for the staff to gather all that   information, to gather all those approvals at  the front end. The beauty of the NRA program   compared to a traditional tax abatement is  that all the work's done at the front end.   Not that the applicant doesn't come forward and  have some paperwork or some criteria with your   staff, but the vast majority of it is done at  the front end, not at the applicant level. So,   it's a beautiful program. Lawrence uses it. Topic  has used it. Northern Johnson County has almost   entirely redeveloped because of the NRA program.  We would be wise to adopt that program again.   Happy to answer more questions. Kind of segus  into a concern I have and I think maybe some of   this comes to the housing given tax abatements  to housing. uh 50% tax abatement. Um you know,   is that too much or not? Are we just giving extra  money to developers? Uh my concern about that   is if we discontinue or decrease that percentage  to developers, then they don't develop anything.   Then now we're now we don't have this workforce or  affordable housing being de developed because we   think we squeeze a few more dollars out of these  developers they're doing 40 50 units whatever that   is. So that that's my concern is we're trying to  squeeze people and their message is going to be oh   I'm just going to stop doing it. It's not doesn't  work anymore. Um, so I'm I'm concerned about that   in in a in an environment where we do need a lot  of if we're going to get these new industries,   we need housing for them. We need workforce  housing. Um, so I think I think think it's   important for us to continue that. Um, and not  try to squeeze them too much on the incentives,   make sure they're there so people are are taking  it's still a risk for them to do this. Um,   they're still putting their their their dollars  on the line. um and they're getting their own   financing. So, I I think it's important that we  don't try to squeeze developers too much um and   do maintain margins or opportunities for them to  do have workforce housing. Council, I would agree   with you and I would say that what what you're  doing is what you're controlling what you can   control. You can't control the price of lumber.  You can't control the price of concrete. Many of   the macro factors that are affecting the housing  crunch in this country, you do not have the   ability to to affect. But your ability to reduce  temporarily some of the tax exposure I think will   help. It has to help. Now the fundamental question  is will it help enough? Will it help too much?   In which case then this governing body has the  ability to to slow that or turn that off. But I   I do think it will help. The question will be will  it help enough? Your property tax bill even on a   single family home is a very small portion of the  total cost of developing that structure. So just   like a commercial building. It might be enough to  make the difference though. Could be. You know,   and I'd like to echo Vice Mayor Johnston's  uh remarks on that, especially regards to   housing. Uh that's certainly something we  can't let our foot up off the gas side. We'll continue to work on this. I'm in favor  of the gap, too. just to go on record learning   more about you know copying you know following my  colleagues comments about learning more about that   and seeing what we can do so sorry so you have in  your packets what went out Friday there were about   a half dozen slides that showed and again don't  take my work word for it right there was some   there's some work product that was done um and  whether it's development strategies or anybody   else across the nation, right? That gap is real.  Um, in fact, we're going to dig into that a little   bit more next month when we start talking about  places for people. Um, we moved it out of this   slide deck uh just to be thoughtful of everybody's  time uh here today. We're going to revisit that.   We're going to uh continue to emphasize that  next month's workshop when we talk about places   for people. But that gap and that gap is real.  whether it's single family, whether it's multif   family or residential. There's some good slides  that are in that slide deck. Again, we didn't   include them here. We're just trying to kind of be  thoughtful of everybody's time, but we'll be more   than happy to go through um and show you that gap  exists and it's real on projects just even back a   napkin type of math. So, I have a question.  So, I'm looking at a council member agenda   um on May 6, 2025. This is a project in council  member GlassCox's district 721 West Maple. In this   specific um ask, it was 75% tax abatement because  uh 25% was allocated for redevelopment area. If   we're taking away the re redevelopment area, would  this not have qualified because or does it qualify   because it is in a node or corridor or does it  not? So, I would have to go back and find out   whether or not that exact location fits within the  context of the new nodes and corridor map. Again,   we we're going to kind of highlight that and show  you why um the redevelopment area historically.   We we sort of have the metrics. We went back and  we did an analysis of the city's two-year pilot   project where we waved um building permit fees  and we waved um landfill reimbursements, right?   And it was because we hinged that program on urban  infill in formative areas and after going back and   looking through two years of building permit data,  we know that it didn't move the needle. Well,   the reason why is because a whole host of reasons.  Again, we're going to get into more of that next   month when we dig into the places for people. But  the reason why was because it wasn't adjacent to   sort of free market momentum, right? We're not  seeing the increase in property values that now   I can go and take advantage of and get lending on.  And that gap you'll see in some of the slide decks   going from formative to emerging to flourishing to  right that the gap gets smaller because you see in   the adjacency momentum areas as property values  start to rise that gap gets smaller. Now we can   come alongside and you'll continue to hear  me kind of drive home the point of adjacency   momentum. That was a concept that came out of  place. We just we sort of ignored when we put   out that pilot program. We now have that pilot  program that comes back and says, "We know that   didn't work right." And so had that location been  in a noted corridor, yes, under our new program,   they would have achieved because they're in a  noted corridor, not just in sort of that blanket   redevelopment area. Okay, continuing on, talked a  little bit about NRA program. There's another one   um that's reinvestment housing incentive district.  We're going to introduce that into the guidelines.   That was a program originally uh introduced  by the state as a rural housing incentive   district. Didn't gain a lot of momentum. Rural  they retoled it to be the reinvestment housing   incentive district. It too operates a lot like  tax increment financing. The term is extended   from 20 to 25 years. The eligible expenses are  increased but then on the other hand there's   some restrictions on when and how you can use it.  So we haven't really seen anybody take advantage   of it yet. Um but it is a tool. It is a program  that exists out there. We're going to put that   into the guidelines to make sure that folks know  and understand that that's available to them. Um,   we wanted to be really really careful on the  spec building program. This has been a really   successful program. Um, there's a few minor tweaks  that we want to make to that program just to   align. We've learned a lot over the last several  years about uh kind of the the shift in whether   it be industrial buildings or flex facilities  or office buildings or hangers, right? There's   been a little bit of evolution in speculative  buildings and so we're going to make a few minor   recommendations to changes in that. Um special  assessments is something that uh this community   is is familiar with. We're going to kind of roll  up our special assessment um under statute what we   can use special assessments for. We're going to  roll that into the guidelines just to make sure   that everybody knows understand that that tool  is available to them as well. Uh everything you   see on the screen is basically what we're doing  today. We just wanted to kind of highlight how   the program works. And again, we're going to roll  that up into the guidelines. It's really just kind   of floating out there on a web page somewhere. We  want to make sure that it's all inclusive in the   guidelines. And so we're going to include that.  Uh, additionally, same thing we we talked a little   bit about this last year, making sure that um our  acquisition, disposition uh policies are rolled   into the guidelines, so it's a comprehensive sort  of all-in-one reference tool. Um, can you go back   to that? Sorry. Can you address the surplus real  estate? So, um, if community members want to see   any real estate the city of Witchaw has for sale,  where would they go? Uh, so we have a website. Um,   you can get to it through our economic development  page. I don't have the exact address, but you can   see all of the city's real estate that has  been specifically identified as, excuse me,   surplus and that is uh up for sale. Now, that is  not all of the city's real estate. That is just   the real estate the council has taken the action  of quote unquote surplusing. Okay. So that's the   surplus real estate. The conditional real estate  category, right? Um is a scenario where there may   be property that is owned, operated, controlled  by the city. Um it has not quote unquote been   surplused, right? But at any point in time,  somebody could approach the city and say,   "Hey, I would like to purchase this property from  the city. Here's my development plan." The city   go could go through the process of selling or  disposing of property that hasn't necessarily   been surplused if a development proposal is is  presented. And then ultimately that process goes   through city council to to approve or reject um a  proposal. Um and then the last one is this idea of   there are tracks of land. Other communities take  this approach that um these are tracks of land. Um   um for example uh the city went through  it a couple of years ago where you   identify a track of land and you really want to  achieve something um specific or unique. Hey,   the city is disposing of this land and we're going  to put it out for a request for proposals and that   the conveyance of that land, the disposition of  that land comes along with some sort of specific   development goal or objective. And that's kind of  sort of the gradient of the disposition process.   there's either surplus properties, there's  these kind of additional real estate proposal   uh dispositions or specifically um the disposition  in the form of kind of a request for proposals.   So, we're going to make sure all that again not  necessarily changing anything in our guidelines.   We're just making sure that those are included in  the guidelines. Troy, real quick before you get   to that discussion, um can you go back to the  spec building? Have we considered um not just   new builds but also building renovation? I know  we had that one project in district 4, I think,   where they renovated a space, but if we have a lot  of buildings that we could get renovated for spec   purposes, could that be something that we consider  as well? Absolutely. We we have on the books today   that if a building is vacant for more than two  years, um it gets it gets into a really sort of   uh questionable area. I think we absolutely should  consider them. Um they probably have a certain   level of gap analysis threshold that we ought to  kind of take a long hard look at because much like   in that case, you have a building that is on the  tax role that maybe contributing to the tax role   that you may be asked to take sort of dollars off  the tax role. Um, and we should make sure that we   know and understand that the level of investment  and that return on investment, that costbenefit   analysis lends itself to a really successful  return on investment for not only the individual,   but the community at large. We we'll continue  to make sure that that's included in our our   guidelines. We're not proposing striking that or  removing that. that's still in our guidelines. Um,   in a future iteration, we can talk about maybe  what that specific subset of the spec program   looks like, but absolutely we we intend to keep  that in that that program. Okay. I um without   talking to any developers, so I don't know if  this is a good idea or not. I was more inclined   to support a property tax freeze rather than  taking away from the tax base. And then that   way any of the additional taxes that would be  created from the investment, we would abate that   piece. But the what everyone's collecting right  now, they would continue. It's kind of where I   was thinking on that. Agreed. I'd be interested in  just the feasibility of that as well. And I think   it would be turning blighted properties into  usable properties more than just new builds on   green space. And so that would be supportive  of looking at. Yep. Okay. Okay. Okay. So,   a couple of other discussion items that have come  up over the last couple of months. We just want to   make sure that we we uh acknowledge uh that we've  heard you and we're going to start incorporating   this stuff short of any any deviation from that  here today. Right. There was uh some comment about   exclusions for businesses or individuals involved  in a lawsuit with the city. We'll introduce that.   Uh an exclusion for businesses or individuals  that are delinquent with the city. I know there   was a comment a little while ago about maybe being  delinquent on property taxes. That is absolutely   our intent, whether it be property taxes or  any other delinquency with the city um that   they would not be eligible to pursue any sort of  incentives. Um talk a little bit about background   checks. We do have some language in our existing  guidelines right now about background check,   but I want to you may recall one of my earlier  slides of standardizing that background check.   It's in in some applications we did this sort  of fullon $5,000 sort of background check and   um in some of the other ones it was just sort of  are we making sure that this individual that we're   um entering into an agreement with, right, is not  a criminal or doesn't have any sort of criminal   background. It's sort of that $250 background  check. We we want to try to normalize that,   right? And make sure that we're being consistent  across the board around that. Uh I want to go back   to that really quick. Y for full transparency,  I think that in each of these proposals that   come forward to us uh moving forward should  have a background if we are in lawsuit or   either being sued or suing uh the entity. It  should be on our sheet for full transparency.   So, want to differentiate that just the way  that we're going with this, right? Is that if   we are suing somebody, if we're involved, I'm  going to back up. Yes. If we're suing somebody   um or if we're in a lawsuit with somebody, for all  intents, they are not we're not going to bring an   application in front of you, right? That that  should get resolved before we bring any sort of   application in front of you. There was a comment  about, okay, maybe it was um somebody tripped over   a crack on a sidewalk and they're suing us.  I mean, we can kind of try to make some some   gradient level decisions and if that's the case,  we'll bring that in front of you and we'll make   sure to highlight that. But for all intents and  purposes, if there's a pending lawsuit going on,   we're not going to bring any applications. I  think it's more uh it goes beyond just economic   development. I think from now on I would like  to see our green sheets if we are involved in   any lawsuit with the entity that it should be  full disclosure. So you don't have to say what   the incident is but people should be able to know  that either we are being sued or we are suing the   entity in the green sheet. I I think Chicago has  a kind of a policy about that as well. It might be   something to look into. Um, and just a point of  clarification, that is where we are suing them,   not necessarily they am suing us for anything that  they feel. I'm not sure if they are suing us over   wrongs that they think that we did. Um, should  that be included as well? Because that might be   something that's not on them, that is on us. So,  I think that's just another point of discussion   for us is if we're engaged in a lawsuit where  we are actively suing them because of perceived   wrongs as opposed to them suing us. I I think  for both I think I I don't think we need to go   into the detail of the actual lawsuit. But it is  um I think that green sheets they become public   record and they are part of the conversation. And  so if that conversation, again, this is not it   goes beyond just economic development. I'm talking  about any other entity. If you are being sued by   the city or the city is being sued, that should be  full disclosure information on our green sheets.   I'm I'm just more referring to any policy we might  put into into play here going forward. And again,   I think it just strikes just a little deeper  discussion on that one. I agree with Councilman   Hohheisle if I think somebody has a right to  air their grievances with government and if that   includes suing us because they believe that we're  in the wrong. I don't want to have them negatively   affected by our policies just because someone  would be airing a grievance against us that   might be rightful or may not be rightful and the  court of law can determine that. But I don't want   to deter anybody and I don't want it to use as a  weapon if they're applying for an incentive where   they can't um you know let's say that we were in  the wrong. I don't want that to be a chance for   them applying for something. So, I tend to agree  with Councilman Hwise on that. And I I support   I think where you were going, Troy, if if we are  suing someone, it just shouldn't come to council.   They should just know right off the bat. We're  not entertaining that. Um, so I would support   that. I have my concerns, but my colleague just  brought that up about people suing us. Um, but I   do have a question on the background check. So,  what what would that look like exclusionwise? If   someone had a potential felony background, hasn't  done anything in a while, but they're applying   for incentives, would that exclude them, or is  that something that, as the mayor was saying,   maybe is on the green sheet that shows this person  has a potential criminal background or challenge   background, or is that just something internal?  So, from our perspective, it's it's not hard and   fast, right? The things that we're going to look  at are what did that background check reveal,   right? Um if there are if there's a history of  of for example, I'm just making something up,   right? That uh inability to manage money well,  right? That's probably going to be an indicator   of of just a caution. Hey, as we move forward, do  we need to do an additional layer of investig? we   need to do an additional letter of vetting to make  sure that that those issues may have been resolved   um or that that that pattern has changed, right?  That pattern may have changed. If it's something   uh that is unrelated to kind of what they're okay,  so be it, right? That it it's just something that   we need to be cognizant and aware of. Now, it  wouldn't necessarily rule anybody out. Um but   it is an opportunity to just daylight, hey, maybe  there's something to be concerned about because   ultimately, again, we're entering into some  of these agreements. We just need to know   um who we're entering into agreements with. Okay.  I I'm supportive, I think, of of us knowing,   but I just have my concerns. In this country, we  always say we for you pay your debt to society,   you're good. And that really isn't the case. So, I  would just hope that maybe it's something that we   stay on our P's and Q's with that information, but  not necessarily punish someone again for something   that they've paid their debt to society and is  trying to move forward. Totally agree. Agreed.   Y Okay. Um there's a conversation quickly  about clawbacks and so I wanted to spend   a little bit of time on on this. This is a um  this is a term that gets thrown around a lot,   right? And so I wanted to kind of highlight there  is some language that appears in our guidelines   today. It's a little bit of a cautionary tale.  Um first and foremost because once a development   agreement is satisfied if a development agreement  doesn't have the language baked into it simply   having this language in our guidelines may not  necessarily give us a lot of legal standing in   being able specifically as it relates to this.  So this is the language we have in our guidelines   today. What I won't read it word for word. I'll  let you all read it. But the context behind this   is if a business or an industry leaves or vacate  after their incentive period ends that there's   this attempt by the city to go and try to claw  back whatever incentive was offered up as part   of that term. Right? So, for example, um if you  were offered up a a revenue bond for 10 year term,   you have prop and then in year 11, that business  vacates and leaves, you know, what this sets   forth is the city could try to pursue some sort of  clawback of whatever that percentage was. Again,   if it's not part of a development agreement, um  I think it would be really difficult to sort of   claw that incentive back, especially if all of the  other terms and conditions of the development were   agreement were satisfied. Uh I think you'd have a  hard time kind of clawing that back. Number one.   Number two, more importantly though, right, if we  go down this path of continuing to make sure that   that we are are shifting the risk to the owner  developer uh and not taxpayer dollars. If it's   performance-based, they've got to go do what they  say they're going to do and then they receive the   incentives and the benefits. Um by the time  you get to year 11 and beyond, right, um that   incentive will sort of have run its course. um  there will not have been any risk to the taxpayer.   Uh we'll have seen the capital investment and  ultimately the property tax ad valerum obligation   will continue in year 11 and beyond. Um and so  we're going to play around with this language in   the the guidelines, but again just the fact that  it's in the guidelines doesn't necessarily give us   uh a lot of faith that we're going to be able  to do anything with it. It is something that   we're cognizant of that if we do enter into  development agreements with with another party   to be thoughtful about um making sure that we're  not getting taken advantage of. But if it is truly   uh shifting risk away that there's no taxpayer  dollars involved and it's performance-based, there   really shouldn't be much to sort of claw back, so  to speak. Now, what we're kind of offering up that   isn't in our guidelines today is an an expiring  of offering, right? That's something that we could   offer up and that way council approves an offering  and for whatever reason that project doesn't   commence construction within a certain period  of time. Okay, fine. That that offering expires.   If you want to come back and ask for that again,  you've got to go go through the process all over   again. Right? So, we'll we're going to introduce  some kind of expiration of offering language in   our guidelines just to make sure that uh everybody  knows and understands that again as that approval   If that's the action the council takes takes that  that offering will have an expiration date. I   support the expiration of offerings. Just help  me understand the last part of that paragraph   because I read that as each year the repayment is  reduced by 20%. So that means after five years so   if you stay here 15 so you did your successful  10 and then 15 then it'd be zero. Correct? Okay.   which as you can see might be really really kind  of difficult to sort of enforce. There's a lot of   administrative oversight associated with that,  right? Does that mean that we're continuing to   monitor businesses in year 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15  even after they've satisfied all of the terms and   conditions of the development agreement? Um,  so we'll play around with this language, but   um, understanding that our first intention is to  shift risk away from taxpayer, make sure that it's   performance-based so that we don't have to climb  anything back, we'll just expire an offering.   Yeah, I I think it makes sense. I mean, I know  the public would probably be frustrated if again,   even if it was a successful 10 years and then  you're 11, you leave and you only or you're 12,   you leave and you only have to pay a certain  amount, then it's like you really were just   here for that benefit rather than for the  community. So, to me that makes sense. Okay. Um, and I think this is my last slide.  Um, there's been some conversation around these   five-year reviews. Um, And this just continues  to build on um the language that we have in our   ordinance, excuse me, in our guidelines today  is kind of this five plus five. Uh we've had a   little bit of a conversation here if there's  not a job requirement associated with this,   right? Um perhaps what is there to review after  that fiveyear? because we'll know when the bond is   issued, which is what we use as the commencement  date for that 5 plus 5 when the bonds are actually   we'll know at the time that the bonds are issued  that the capital investment was made, right? That   the for example in the housing units that the  number of housing units were built that basically   it's that performance check spot. Did they do what  they said they were going to do? Did they do what   the other than sort of the job creation component  um or perhaps the spec warehouse spec program   there's not maybe necessarily much to review  at the 5-year period to sort of terminate going   forward. We will in an effort to uh standardize  our our compliance process. We we'll do reporting.   We're we're we're amendable to doing reporting and  putting hey at the five-year review of whatever   happened five years ago that yep they made the  capital investment and we can kind of do a a   baseline report on what has transpired over the  five years and where they're at in the process.   Are they still in business? So on and so forth.  Um in addition to that, as part of the standard   compliance, we're going to introduce quarterly  progress reports during construction, annual   performance reports during the incentive period.  There's also going to be uh last year state house   bill 2304 was approved by uh the state uh that  provides for annual reporting of incentives and   those so these are some things we're going to  have to kind of do anyway. Um in addition to   that I think you'll be excited to see we're going  to put out a comprehensive annual report coming   out of our offices here in the near future.  So I think this is all going to come together.   we're going to be a lot more um inclusive  of reporting and numbers and data points and   metrics around all of this stuff. I think that'll  bring up a lot of questions and concerns. I do   see the value in the 5year review as we talk about  housing. If if our goals and objectives look at a   um you know $1,000 a month or,200 a month to see  if they did keep that. I I really would love to   see a 5% rent increase cap. But if all of that was  on there, that shows what they did or didn't do.   And I think at that point, if you see that they  they maybe started off in a way that would get   our support and then shift it, that would be an  opportunity at that point, not only for council   to see that and hold them accountable, but also  for the public to see that they tried to deceive   um the city council and the public in general.  So, I I see a benefit there. I get your point   about some of the others, but I think is if  we're going to incorporate housing into that,   that is one of those opportunities for  accountability. I would agree with that. I'll answer any other questions. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. We'll  pick up again on the specific components   regarding the places for people next week  or next month, excuse me. And then we'll   probably have at least one more of these  conversations at workshop. We'll also be   looking for your input. How do you want us to  engage others in this discussion? Obviously,   the partnership represents one uh stakeholder.  Are there other stakeholders you want us to be   talking to as we try to finalize these? And I  will remind you our policy is a joint policy.   So the county commission will be involved as well.  Quick questions. Ranger, we have additional slides   in here. Is that just for the additional slides  were the ones that originally those are the ones   that you're going to talk about next month. Places  for people talks about housing affordability and   we'll talk more about nodes and and corridors  and all of that. I think that the neighborhood   revitalization act will be a good conversation  for the next trigo governmental meeting. That's all we have here.  Thank you. Have a good week.