okay madam chair we are now live good evening everyone i call this meeting to order this is the land use planning and zoning committee of the city council councilor borrego is excused from today's meeting all committee members are present today via zoom this is a remote or online meeting where all participants will be on a video or audio conference we are holding this meeting remotely so that everyone can participate safely while we are conducting business in this way we appreciate your patience members of the public have the opportunity to address the committee if they have signed up for live public comment for the rules published on the agenda and on our website friday but i understand no one has signed up to address the committee today written comments were received for today's meeting and have been distributed to all committee members members of the public city staff and the media have the ability to view this meeting live through youtube and zoom webinar the live stream can be accessed from most smartphones tablets or computers for those watching on the live stream thank you for joining us we will now go to agenda item a bc406 ec 406 is the mayor's appointment of mrs jonah lynn pfeiffer to the environmental planning commission i move confirmation um madam chair does that require a second if it does i will uh offer a second yes it does thank you and now we can move on our counselors are doing questions or comments and then we will ask uh our candidate to speak if she would like no questions or comments no i do i do oh okay thank you counselor gibson please i was letting other people go first if they wanted to so um you know we have this council looks at many many appointments um and for all all sorts of things there are two uh boards that uh you know in my experience on being on council are um probably the toughest one being the uh cpoa board and the other uh being this board the epc uh of and they're both really require an awful lot and i i respect and i'm grateful to all of the people who serve on on each one of those um but on the epc that's such a technical board that um it uh i i think we need to look at um you know as we have in the past for this board people who come on who have professional experience or some educational experience on on this so i i'll say that uh a little surprised to to uh uh see uh mrs janna on uh on this uh ec and i guess i would like to ask her if um did did you seek this out ma'am or or did somebody tell you about it and you decided to to seek it out if i may ask for that please miss chair madam chair yes of course miss piper would you like to answer that please good evening good afternoon thank you madam chair judy don't have to do isn't it that doesn't seem possible thank you good afternoon uh counselor diane i appreciate your question um yes i was actually um reached out by councillor lan senna for this position i think so um can you tell me um what about this uh what about this particular uh committee or board i guess i should call it that appeals to you and and uh um you know just how you feel about about that work i i understand that somebody has told you some of the you know some of the things that they look at and and the the tasks that they're charged with thank you counselor diane i appreciate your question um first of all i would just like to introduce myself is that okay of course great thank you um my name is jenna pfeiffer i'm originally from cajon mesa utah which is the northern part of the navajo nation i'm a citizen of the navajo nation i grew up in farmington new mexico from there in 2008 i had moved here to the city of albuquerque um it is through this process of living within the four corners area and raising a family in farmington and i'm seeking out education here at the university of new mexico that i finally um was able to plant my my footprint here in the city of albuquerque so i'm really excited that i was um able to kind of just research and you know go into the background with the environmental planning commission and to see more and from seek more information about this commission as well through my experience working here in the city of albuquerque i've been able to work in the anti-violence capacity mainly on the public safety side of our community members our tribal nations and as well as a community member myself through that experience i've been able to interact with federal state and local agencies and through that process i truly believe that when it comes to the environmental planning commission a diverse voice and perspective is needed and my understanding um is that a few a couple months ago that we have seen a resolution where diverse voices um you know are are you know what our counselors are seeking out to you know definitely represent our commission and our boards and i truly believe as an indigenous native person um that is a an important value um to the multi um diverse city that we have here and it should be a reflection within the commission board and i think that through my experience as being a indigenous native person to this land as being a steward of this land um recognizing that our pueblo nation are the main lands that we reside on and it is through my journey of moving here realizing the background and the history of the public nations and specifically for district one how we have um the zoning and the public land use that's being used here we are we we are on pueblo land and you know we definitely border the isleta the sandia the santa ana and so forth and i think that that's something we have to take in consideration when it comes to an indigenous voice and perspective and how they can represent the commission when it comes to district one thank you for that and and you know i neglected to start out and i should have uh but i'll say it now thank you for um for your interest and and for volunteering for this um for this position thank you i absolutely mean that because i really am grateful to everybody uh who does serve the city on these volunteer boards and i recall that that uh the passing of that uh legislation also to make sure that we try our very best to get representation on on our boards in commissions and committees that do better represent people who have been underrepresented i get it i voted for that i don't think anybody voted against it um but so let me just make my point instead i don't like to beat around the bush i think you're very intelligent very very capable woman um and you do have you do your your perspective your life perspective as you describe it really does lend itself towards advocacy for for people who not only not only not only a native american people but but you know people who have not had voices at the table uh here's my hesitation um my hesitation is that uh this particular board is really really technical i i i would love to have you uh you know working with it with the city in in a capacity where you have some you know prior understanding and prior background um and i i i i think that you'd i think that you'd be a really good advocate particularly in is in a position like that where you where you do have um some knowledge and and background uh because i think that you could use your skills as a representative and as an advocate much more effectively than you may be able to on epc so that's my hesitation but i'm really glad to hear hear about you and where you come from and um i'm glad you're here in albuquerque and i i really hope i don't this sounds like a criticism and it really isn't i don't mean it to be a criticism and i'm i don't feel critical of you at all it's just that i do feel like you could be a much better advocate working in an area um where you where you do have some uh experience or or uh education or whatever so that's really all i have to say madam chair thank you very much for this chance to talk counselor gibson and councillor benton your next [Music] thank you madam chair and thank you miss pfeiffer for stepping up really appreciate it um as as councilor gibson said um i was very interested in reading about uh your involvement with bears ears and the land use in that very loaded and unusual situation and you were chosen to to well you can describe your role i i read what i saw in that in our packet but uh interested in that specifically and uh wow that's the ultimate land use question right of what do we preserve and what do we recognize uh of long-standing land rights let's just call it that but i was interested in your perspective on that thank you counselor benton for that question i appreciate it um first of all i just want to note that i think that as an indigenous woman from an indigenous community we tend to take all considerations whether it is the individual leader um count associates or consultants or a state federal but as an indigenous person to be in that perspective where you're directly impacted seeing how you're told your land has to be utilized is a very um important perspective to note that that experience myself was really important where i am the only second generation of an educated granddaughter i was able to come forward and be able to articulate for my uncles and my grandparents and community members that don't have a professional education or background and help them understand this process of what was taking place in our ancestral homeland and their ears monument that's originally where my great great great grandfather chief ayeli comes from he was born at bear ears monument we were able to find refugee from the long walk when we stayed in the barriers monument so it's a very deeply um contentious you know land dispute but at the same time i understand that the current era that we're in and the protections of sacred land but also in addition to that understanding that the tribal community that is adjacent to this barriers monument also have rights to understanding their ability to utilize the land and whether that is gathering wood or herbs or ceremonial practices that was something that compelled me to come forward and to be able to help my family understand that these things are still not impacting them on this monument is here whether it's through the different federal administrations of going back and forth and i think in terms of the leaders of our communities they were able to voice that on a collective level and sometimes you know i think we have this stereotype or stigma um where we are as an indigenous native person that we're radicalists in terms of when it comes to environmental protection and our rights but i think we do understand that collaboration consulting with federal and state agencies is something not familiar with our indigenous communities and and i truly believe that tribal consultation is very important done in a very professional manner and the outcomes do not always have to be contentious that we can find a very middle ground and really balance our our way in this modern era when it comes to our tribal communities but still have ties to our our tribal lands our sacred spaces and really our inherent rights to some of these locations maybe reservations that were outlined by the federal government so i think that in terms of indigenous perspective i have a full life experience being a community member at the same time some of the challenges i've have that have occurred for me is moving in the city understanding that there's a different urbanized way of living as an indigenous native person where is that middle ground for myself when it comes to my children and raising my two children how we identify ourselves in an urbanized setting what is a safe place our health and well-being so i think in terms of what counselor diana was mentioning the technical aspects of that i i believe that my experience has afforded me roles and responsibilities to advocate for many years i've asked to to speak i've asked to represent i've asked to come forward to participate on this commission board and i truly believe that my co my years of experience has allowed me to understand what is put before me and to be able to carry those responsibilities and those roles out i have no um [Music] i have no i i don't believe that what counselor diane was talking about that the professional technical responsibilities will be a challenge but i can say that i am willing to learn i'm willing to come forward and to be able to um discuss these things with my fellow commission board members as well so i do understand um your concerns on that but i truly believe that i am the right person for this position i don't care if i may continue yes councilman and thank you muscle painting i see your hand i will get to you shortly thank you and miss pfeiffer i i very much appreciate that that is a compelling argument uh with regard to but again i kind of gave you a little lead-in of a fundamental uh question about the land and its use and who really owns it i mean there's a lot of let's face it there's a whole lot of deference given to to what's called land rates in this country and and that has to do with with whatever the land rights may be on any given at any given time but uh how what's the legacy of those land rights how did they come down this really gives me a lot of reason to think about the role of the epc and yes if you read these descriptions as we're late were described uh that were read by by counselor gibson that is what it says in the you know formative ordinance but uh but i think you offer us some very important food for thought about what the role of that body is and it has been a body and i've stood by this over the years that just looks at the facts as uh joe friday the old tv detective used to say just the facts ma'am and um and that's the way it operates but it just looks at the rules on the books and um you know what is our comprehensive plan what are those goals that are laid out in our comprehensive plan and i urge you to take a look at that if you haven't already i shouldn't assume that you haven't i don't uh but the comp plan which is the fundamental policy document and that our zoning code which has been controversial but it's called the integrated development ordinance and it's what's on the books and a lot of what the epc's role is to to interpret and to ensure that it's followed so um but yeah where did these land rates descend from and i i believe is the native american population of albuquerque around 15 of the population i believe that's my understanding do you know anyone know that figure miss pfeiffer i think i think it's in that vicinity that's a pretty important part of our community that needs to be heard from and and i like the the uh also your statement about uh you know kind of the legacy of native women being problem solvers and people who bring people together and and look at all sides and very much appreciate that but i'll yield the madame chair i might want to say something more before we're done but again thank you miss pfeiffer for stepping up thank you councilman uh councillor pregnant my battery on my mouse must be dying so thank you madam chair um welcome miss pfeiffer i'm sorry i got on a little late but you know i'm just hearing the conversation i just i'm encouraged to see um someone of color especially a native american wanting to serve on the environmental planning commission as you know it's a such an important board in our in our community actually i think some of the strength that came with epc has has dwindled a little bit because we have most of the stuff going to the drb but it's still an important board um that we have in the city of albuquerque you know i reside on on the west side i've always partnered with um former councillor um ken sanchez and then obviously um counselor sena and as you know um that's really the area of the city where we're growing and you know it butts native land and so i think you know your perspective and bringing as our city grows um bringing um a balance between growth and and what the native american community has to offer is an important um an important part of of how we grow um um more unified and holistically right i have my grandmother is from uh isleta so you know i don't know what percentage i am but you know i'm uh i'm in in the row somewhere but i wanted to ask and i don't know who from the staff is here and there's some conversation about um experience and we have miss um shanna schultz and if you could talk to me about what are the requirements of seeing on epc because i really believe that it's my understanding that this is a board of community members um obviously encouraged to have some kind of expertise in the field but that it's not required as a as a requirement to sit on this board um i'm a former epc planning commissioner i know there's a one or two commissioners now that don't have direct experience so i just kind of want to dispel that a little bit because i think this this um young lady has like lots of off got lots to offer and we could learn from um as a city so uh michelle's can you please um explain the requirements chair counselor pena sure i'd be happy to do that the qualifications for the environmental planning commission are set forth in the integrated development ordinance in the section of the ido where it talks about the roles and responsibilities of the board it also talks about the qualifications for the board and i will just go ahead and read directly the the sentence um from that document um the epc membership includes one resident per city council district with experience in community planning architecture landscape architecture urban design real estate development transportation civil engineering and or real estate finance um so candidates are expected to kind of fall into one of those buckets as outlined in the document so it's not so if you have some experience in that it doesn't require that you have any kind of degree in in in any of those fields right uh madam chair counselor pena there are no education requirements it's all kind of broadly talked about as just um uh experience perfect perfect thank you michelle so thank you madam chair i i just think um i'm sorry the environmental planning commissions i'm sorry we've lost you counselor penny would you say that last sentence again please i was just saying thank you madam chair i think that um miss pfeiffer would be an excellent addition to the environmental planning commission thank you thank you um counselors any other comments if not i would like to uh say a few things um jan thank you so much for uh being willing to do this this is a and one of the most important committees that serves with the council and with our city uh i'm sure you have seen that the major role of this is to interpret and deal with the documents that we have in place for development and how things are done unfortunately it is not um it is very technical it is very technical and many people have been on it without those technical skills but um tell me please what give me a little bit about your background what have your your education which is not essential incidentally uh your your employments what jobs you've done and what you've enjoyed and uh what you think your role would be on the epc knowing of course sorry to interrupt before i get to let you talk knowing of course that there are eight other members of this planning commission great thank you madam chair trudy jones i appreciate your question um i think that with in terms of my education obtaining the bachelor's degree that i have at the university of new mexico which was in native american studies and a minor in women's studies i truly believe that we are in an era where as indigenous people we're recognizing our inherent sovereignty when it comes to our tribal nations our people and our land and what we've contributed to here in the state of new mexico so it was important for me to choose a degree that allowed me to further understand the complexities of our history when it comes to the assimilation era maybe the land allotment that took place the checkerboard regions when it comes to native lands in addition to that understanding the social justice movements that are occurring within the environmental impacts whether it's oil and gas some of the other impacts i can think of is even just the the government the navajo nation government and our pueblo governments in the way that they are structured and modeled it really kind of dives into the intersections of where our tribal nations are during this time i truly believe that there is a movement when it comes to our youth on these topics they are they are definitely becoming more aware and that's something that i continue to teach as a mother what i learn i also teach my children it's important for me to provide that perspective that we have come a long ways when it comes to you know being alive today and current in current modern times so that native studies was important the women's studies was also important in terms of understanding my work and the anti-violence capacity and seeing growing up as a child many of the domestic violence and sexual assault um cases that occurred whether it was in my family or whether it was in my community or a friend that may have experience that deeply impacted me in many ways seeing childhood trauma and being able to say that i have solutions to bring forward to our tribal communities and that's another um theme that i'm i'm recognizing is the public safety of our people that's something that i truly advocate in the well-being of our tribal communities and in addition to here within the city urban lifestyle when it comes to my employment throughout the years i've been able to work at a non-governmental agency and be able to oversee many of the key stakeholders that were assisting the coalition to stop violence against native women i would have some experience when it comes to facilitation working with key stakeholders when it comes to the outcomes of some of our grant objectives in working with some of the governors and counselors within the tribal communities as well on their decisions on how to make their tribal communities more safe and again another theme that is important to me public safety and through that experience i moved into direct services when it comes to working with the most vulnerable people here in the city of albuquerque it was a grant that i oversaw with the department of justice that grant in itself allowed me to work one-on-one with individuals who were being trafficked here in the city of albuquerque through that experience i was able to see the clinic and its role and responsibility to our most vulnerable population here in the city and also mapping and understanding certain spaces within the city that were particularly not safe for women and children to mention bus stops locations along the i-40 and i-25 and give a general overview of how our city of albuquerque um certain spaces are really not safe for our community members and that's been something that i've always constantly spoke about some some of the presentations that i've worked with whether it was on behalf of this grant or working at the national criminal justice training center speaking about the geographic nature of the city of albuquerque in the state of new mexico as well for the new mexico attorney general's office i think that role in itself was really important in understanding that at a state level we have a responsibility when it comes to working with our most vulnerable and then on understanding that having an indigenous person within the state agency you know public service again was important for my my role being at the new mexico state attorney general's office through that experience i've been able to work with a lot of the federal fbi agents homeland security as well and then also overlooking the new mexico state human trafficking task force um through that hannah janna i'm sorry to interrupt you but um i i think we need to move on with this your your job experience is fantastic and very impressive but what we're talking about here is a committee that interprets the laws that have as far as development and the way things are built within the city of albuquerque and it is an interpretation of the laws that are on the books uh so just to to make it a little clearer where we're going and i appreciate what you have done very impressive very impressive young lady so thank you for uh being willing to serve on this um counselor gibson hasn't oh counselor committee did you have another question counselor gibson has would you like to say something uh yes thank you so the more you talk the more i i like you but i want you to be successful and and you uh you just mentioned three or four things that i thought wow you know you could make a really incredible contribution on things like public safety or or uh you know something a little bit closer to home like domestic violence so that's and other things too um you know it's hard it's hard for me to find the right words without sounding critical of you and i really don't want to sound critical of you but um i i i would like to put somebody on the epc who uh has had the um for example the upbringing that you've had that has uh known a different culture than what for example what as a white woman would what i knew you know i would like to bring somebody like that on to epc who is a planner or an architect or an engineer or or somebody who knows something of about zoning and land use um uh so i and i guess that sounds critical and i apologize for because i do not want to be critical of you i think you're a wonderful person and uh and could really make an incredible difference to our city and i i do mean that thank you so um that's all i have thank you council gibson uh councillor benjamin council venturing your sound is off i'm sorry there i go again um i like to make a motion to uh send this appointment to the full council um and my drivers would be to send it with a a full recommendation but i think some questions have been raised and so i would i'm moving to send it without recommendation so the full council can consider uh the appointment of miss pfeiffer because i think this is a fascinating discussion from my perspective as to uh the importance of of not only land rights but land use and how it affects all sorts of folks who live in our city and um there are these technical questions that have been raised and their legitimate tech technical questions ms pfeiffer i i do i i'm confident that these aren't questions about uh whether you are fit to serve or anything of that sort but rather some technical questions about a technical committee let's put it that way so i would like to move it for uh to the to the full council without recommendation if there's a second for that i'll second that there's a motion and a second to move to full council without recommendation are there any comments on that um unfortunately i see councillor senators on maybe she'd like an opportunity to speak um counselor sena would you like to make a statement on this thank you madam chair and thank you councilor pena i do appreciate i know i'm not part of lux uh and appreciate just being able to to jump on to to speak on behalf of my appointment uh miss pifer you know the reason why and many folks have asked me uh why did i hold up for so long and for me it's really finding the right person like miss pifer i think the conversation today is important but also noting that we as a city council have voted in support and have the commitment to really put forward diverse voices on boards that we believe need that diverse voice and for me it was really seeking out someone like miss pifer to really serve on this board as we see and shape our community when it comes to environmental planning and our own land use and i believe that for experience especially with something as complicated and what we see with even their ears bears ears that federal local municipal you name it has been intertwined with her work and i believe that she has the skill and the technicality that would serve uh epc and even our city very well so i'm very grateful for her having accepted really me requesting her to sit on this board and the importance of actually having indigenous voices shape how we use our land and i think what was said today and really what ms piper is really aiming for and how she serves our community and how we can give back to her as well i think for us being on tiwa land it's important to recognize that really in some ways where um we should be renting this land and giving back to community and for me having someone with the experience like miss pifer to serve on this commission is really critical and essential and something we have never had and in fact if she does receive this appointment she'll be the first woman and first indigenous voice to actually be at this table um and so thank you again for for entertaining me coming to this uh committee and actually uh speaking on behalf of my appointment thank you councillors any other questions you know comments i guess i'm going to get to say one more comment before we talk with counselor pena i had my hand up oh i'm sorry i didn't see you again i was looking at your face and you didn't nod at me counselor opinion thank you madam chair i was just going to ask the staff if they could get me the full list of the epc commissioners and um with their experience in their resumes um before the next meeting adam chair counselor penny i'd be happy to compile that for you i will get that to you as soon as possible thank you thank you thank you council pena councillor yeah thank you madam chair um and and uh also just for staff um you know a um counselor penis question makes me think of like you know what has been the history of in in recent years and folks and i know uh counselor pena served on the apc as a community activist as far as i know i'm sure she's involved in all sorts of development uh in her career outside of that as well but but this really raises such important questions about uh the policy and and of course as as was stated by counselor pena the fact that the the mandate of the epc has changed somewhat and does this change that at all uh the intertwining with the comprehensive plan which i mentioned to miss pfeiffer is something that that i think is a wonderful document by the way that that how we you know it's true that the drb was given more technical authority under the new zoning code which may or may not be a good idea but they they were always a technical board i hope and i think we have to ensure that there's still a technical board and that the epc is a board that uh is more looking at the bigger picture and the nuances of uh of urban life for everyone in an inclusive manner so um i i think we're kind of stuck behind this somewhat of an eight ball here with with what the uh the uh supposed um qualifications are for the board uh and and i like some staff analysis of that as well as along with along with what councilor pena asked for madam chair councillor benton i'd be happy to provide that as well to you okay any other comments counselors uh counselor gibson i have a question um and maybe uh uh counselor senate can answer this maybe uh maybe miss schultz can answer this do we believe that we could not find uh a another person who is as much of an advocate and has a uh also has a perspective a life experience of being non-white non-anglo uh you know maybe from uh you know from a reservation or other place that has not been represented well on city do we think that we cannot find someone like that who does have technical experience is anybody madam chair counselor gibson it's um typically been the role of the counselor for that district to kind of seek out candidates or to at least put the word out there that they're seeking candidates for their district seat um and i would maybe defer that question to councilor senna to to comment on um how the journey has gone so far on on looking for candidates counselors well counselor gibson i think for me what was most critical and especially for district one having so many spaces and like i said we are on still on two land but specifically for district one the complexities of whether it's petroglyphs whether it's sacred spaces that really is secret to our indigenous communities why it was so important to have miss piper and like miss pifer even stated that i i sought out her to serve on this board and that does not mean that we did not come across others who sought to sit on this board as well but for me specifically for the needs of district one and the complexities of why we've never had this representation to sit on this board whether intentional or not i think that it's most important to actually have um a voice like miss pifer there it's not to say that no one else has tried to to seek this position and of course many have but for me it's really myself going out into community which is something that city council has really um i think strived for you know city council voted to really make sure that we have these diverse voices to sit on these boards and commissions that's reflective of our community and for me it was miss piper i am still wholeheartedly in belief that she can serve this position and serve it well and regardless of the technicalities of it i think that it's most important that actually having her voice at this table regardless of you know if someone else is out there i'm sure there are however for me it was actively seeking and going into community and asking for these recommendations and her name wholeheartedly multiple times has come forward and so for me it's really thinking through of why it's important to have her serve and it's my commitment still um to have her serve thank you council center are there any other questions i'm going to make try to make sure that we have this correct then before we close the counselor penny you have another question yeah um thank you madam madam chair yeah so i just wanted to make sure also if um staff can make get the makeup of the board um um for for us as well i i mean i don't know if counselor or any other counselors but um for me at least and then i just wanted to kind of reiterate a little bit of what counselor what i had stated and then what counselor benton stated about that really the technical expertise has really been deferred to the drb that because that that actually puts um a lot of um ability i guess for lack of a better word in terms of our city staff you know and i think when epc was able to do this and it had a makeup of community members and people who had experience as described earlier it really made for a really good balance and i think it gave at least perspective i know oftentimes my vote um died on lots of issues just because you know um maybe i didn't see but at least i had an opportunity to have my voice heard at forum and so um when we're talking about our you know our being equitable in the city of albuquerque too you know i think that if we have a border commission as important as being described here today and that we um have barriers to participation um i have concern with that so um you know we may need to revisit um some of the requirements and part of people's ability to be able to sit on this board especially because this is about land use and development and when you have folks who are you know sometimes often you know people of color who don't really necessarily have a seat at the table and then we have um processes in place that um limit of acts it it just kind of concerns me so i just wanted to have that on the record thank you very much thank you madam chair thank you council pena by the way any comments or i'm going to try to confirm here that the motion on the floor is flatness shots yeah madam chair the current motion on the floor as proposed by councillor benton was a motion of no recommendation to the full council councillor benjamin are you comfortable with that i am and just again to make clear uh reflecting that when on my opinion of the candidate however i think this has been a fairly nuanced discussion that uh deserves uh hearing by the full counsel without this committee making any statement one way or the other about it that's my intent thank you counselors any other comments so the motion on the floor is no recommendation um and there is this was a second on that so ms montoya will you take a roll on that please absolutely counselor benton yes counselor gibson credibly no counselor pena um mine would have been for to support just the appointment but um i guess if this is necessary yes counselor jones no that motion bails on a 2-2 vote and the result of that is madam chair that that vote fails and so there will need to be another motion made to deal with the agenda item whether that's a deferral or a motion other than no recommendation counselors uh counselor event i'll move a recommendation of acceptance of the appoint confirmation to the full council thank you thank you there's a motion in a second for um no recommendation but move to the full council madam chair i believe the motion was to confirm the appointment as distinct from the no recommendation motion that just failed thank you michelle okay so there is a a do approve motion on the floor with a second um mrs montague will you call the girl please counselor benton yes counselor gibson no counselor pena yes counselor jones no that motion fails on a 2-2 vote counselor benton thank you madam chair um i move uh deferral uh until the next uh lups meeting i guess this is our only uh choice at this point thank you councillor is there a second on that madam president um i mean madame chair when is our next lupus meeting about a month matt madam chair counselor pena the next regularly scheduled lups hearing is on december 15th okay thank you there is a motion in this segment for deferral any other comments was there a second cancer oh thank you [Music] any comments miss montoya counselor yes counselor gibson yes counselor pena yes councillor jones yes that passes on a 4-0 vote thank you counselors and and and thank you ma'am for being here and we'll go on to the next step um are there any other is there any other business see none any counselors any questions or comments seeing them this meeting is adjourned goodnight you