[Music] [Music] [Music] Good evening and welcome. Tonight is Monday, May 5th, 2025. Um, happy Cinco de Mayo and uh, happy birthday to Council Member Kley. Um, I will uh, I will call this meeting to order. This is a regular meeting of the Minnitankka City Council. Um, and please join me and stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Miss Faulk, would you please call roll? Foster Bolton here. Shaq here. Wilbur here. Kelbert here. Remey here. Kley here. We here. Next item is approval of the agenda and there is an addendum. Um Mr. Funk. Now thank you mayor. Good evening city council. There's one agenda item for your consideration this evening and that is related to item 14B. Excuse me, which is the Minnotonka offly strategy and guidance plan. The addendum consists of email comments that were received after the distribution of the council packet from last Thursday. So really the window from last Thursday till today. Email comments can be found in the attachment labeled agenda in your online I legislate packet under agenda item 14B. There's no action required and that information is for your information only. So with that, mayor and council, there is no other agenda except for 14B. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Funk. Um is there a motion um on the agenda? Council member Calbertt. Thank you, Mayor. I uh make the motion to approve the agenda as amended and a second. Council member Romey, I'll second. All right, we've got a motion by Council Member Calvert and a second by Council Member Romey. Um Miss Faulk, please call roll. Foster Bolton, yes. Shack, yes. Wilburn, yes. Calbertt, yes. Ra, yes. Kley, yes. Wears, yes. Motion carries. Next item is approval of minutes. There are two sets of minutes. The first is the April 21st, 2025 regular meeting minutes and the second is the same date, April 21st, the local board of um equalization meeting minutes. Um, Council Member Calbert. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I just want to point out that for item 5B, the um local board of assessment and equalization, um, I was not absent. I was only absent for roll call because I made the very first motion. So, I did tell Mr. Punk that. And with that, I move approval of uh the minutes for the April 21st, 2025 regular meeting and the April 21st, 2025 LBAe meeting. Thank you. And is there a second? Council member Foster Bolton. I'll second. All right. We've got a motion by Council Member Calvert and a second by Council Member Foster Bolton. Miss Faulk, please call roll. Foster Bolton. Yes. Shaq, yes. Wurn, yes. Kelbert, yes. Raley, yes. Kley, yes. We yes. Motion carries. So, we've got two special matters tonight. Um, one is the um senior community services proclamation and the second is the bike month proclamation. Um, since I am a senior citizen, I will read the uh senior community services proclamation. And uh whereas the senior community services was founded in 1950 which is actually before I was born and has served the community for 75 remarkable years. And whereas the organization has grown to serve thousands of seniors and caregivers annually making it one of m Minnesota's top nonprofits in the field of aging. And whereas senior community services embodies the vision to reimagine aging by serving compassionately, connecting communities and supporting independence. And whereas the organization will celebrate its 75th anniversary on Thursday, May 15, 2025 at the Madina Entertainment Center. And whereas Senior Community Services has consistently demonstrated extraordinary commitment to empowering older adults and supporting caregivers through innovative programs and compassionate services for the residents of Minnetonka. Now therefore, the city the Minnitankka City Council hereby proclaims our sincere recognition and celebration of senior community services 75 years of dedicated service to our community, honoring their profound impact on the lives of seniors and their families. We commend their unwavering dedication to ensuring every person can age with dignity, connection, and independence. So that is the proclamation for senior community services 75 years of service. The next um uh proclamation is an important item too in Minnitonka and that is the bike month proclamation and uh I think we have quite a few um bikers on our comm on our uh city council but I know that council member Wilburn is the most avid of them. So council member Wilburn will read that proclamation. Whereas cycling is an important and healthy activity that encourages physical fitness, promotes environmental sustainability, provides significant travel cost savings, and fosters a sense of community. And excuse me. Whereas biking provides residents with an enjoyable and environmentally friendly transportation option that reduces traffic congestion, air pollution, environmental damage, and the city's carbon footprint. And whereas Minnotonka is a city known for care and dedication to outdoor access for people of all ages, backgrounds, and ability levels. And whereas Minnitanka is home to more than a 100 miles of biking, running, and walking trails and more than 50 parks that provide residents and visitors with tremendous opportunities to explore the natural and inherent beauty of the city. And whereas cycling enhances the quality of life for individuals of all ages by improving health, promoting mental well-being, and reducing stress. And whereas cycling is essential to the affordability, livability, livability, and sustainability goals of the city of Minnitonka. And whereas Minnotonka's robust cycling community includes passionate cyclists, local organizations, and businesses dedicated to promoting bike safety, education, and advocacy. And whereas the celebration of bike month in May encourages residents to embrace biking as a regular activity and recognize the benefits of cycling for health, recreation, and transportation. Now therefore, be it resolved that Minnitanka City Council does hereby proclaim the month of May 2025 as bike month in the city of Minnitankka. encourage and encourage the community to join in the celebration by cycling for transportation, fun, health, and sustainability and to support efforts efforts that make Minnetonka a more bike friendly city for all. Thank you, Council Member Wilburn. And I I do want to encourage everyone to get on their bikes this month and all summer long um um for fitness and um and transportation. So, thank you very much. So, next item is reports from city manager and council members. And I'll turn to Mr. Funk first. Again, thank you, mayor. Good evening, council and community. Few things for your consideration this evening. The first is this last weekend, the marsh hosted an open house marking its two years since the city acquired it and reopened it. So, I just want to acknowledge Kelly OD and all of our recreation team for all their work this last two years. A lot of folks were at the marsh this last weekend. So, I want to say thank you to everyone that participated. And also want to acknowledge community development sustainability division. They organized a clothing swap uh during the event. The event garnered around 190 attendees in the community swapped 875 pounds of clothing and that was all donated to his house foundation. Um so quite remarkable and again want to thank our staff and many staff members that participated in that event. Uh pivoting then to solar panels. As you know, council, solar panels is part of the city's sustainability goals. Uh this uh just recently the solar panels have been installed on top of fire station 1. And that again is a important project as the city achieves many of our upcoming goals. Also then want to mention that it is international firefighters day which was yesterday, Sunday, May 4. It recognizes firefighters across the world for their service and remembers those who lost their lives during uh 9/11. And so again, we appreciate all of our firefighters and EMS service members. Uh, also want to mention that street sweeping is ending for the spring season. Um, love the weather. Hopefully everyone enjoyed the weather this last week and last weekend and certainly more good weather coming up ahead. I really appreciate our public works department. Uh, street sweeping takes about three to four weeks every spring and so our crews are just getting that wrapped up. Also then our forestry division hosted an Arbor Day planting event at Ford Park. And so again, our acknowledgement of uh Arbor Day was taken by staff and worked with uh folks on getting some plantings uh done at that park. So appreciate their efforts. And then two more things quickly. Uh want to acknowledge John um our well our wreck department and John Hecman over at our ice rink who is our ice rink manager. This was our 50th annual Silver Skates Ice Review and it took place over this weekend. Uh I have an I think I've mentioned this in the past. I have a niece that's an ice skater and just a wonderful event. I was there on Sunday which is the last day of their event and they convert for those that attend uh they convert the entire ice rink for that ice skating event. It was a packed house there. I I'm just guessing 800 people in ice rank A. So again appreciate uh all the work of our staff uh with that event. And then last just want to acknowledge our annual tree sales is starting. Uh for the past 20 years, Minnetonka residents have purchased more than 21,000 trees and shrubs at a reduced cost. This sale has helped the community maintain the region's largest tree canopy. And I know we often talk about that uh varying statistics on it, but around 58% of our city is tree canopy and that uh sale is coming up. So I encourage people to go to our website. The pre-sale starts this week and then the general sale starts on May 12th. So, I turn anyone to our website for more information and certainly call city hall as well. So, with that, mayor and council, I'll turn it back to you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Funka. Council members, anything that you would like to report? Anyone? Um, council member Romey? Thank you, Mayor. Uh, two quick things. I wanted to say that in addition to stopping by the marsh and the clothing swap, I was also at Resources West annual fundraiser on Friday, uh, this past Friday, May 4th. Um, for anybody who isn't aware of Resource West. It is located just down the road a little bit on Minnetonka Boulevard. It's a hyper hyper local community organization that does great work uh, for, you know, our neighbors in need, especially for children. um in terms of everything from school backpacks and supplies to academic tutoring to job support and and much more. And again, they are very hyper local organization here. And if you don't know about them, I would highly encourage you to get to know them and consider uh volunteering andor uh supporting their work here in our community. Um, and then secondly, uh, since we're talking about energy efficiency and sustainability, uh, thank you staff for making me aware and, uh, reiterating that Minnetonka residents can get free home energy squad visits if you sign up by May 31st. This is a great thing because, uh, they'll come out and do a blower uh, test of your home. also install I think a few um you know LED bulbs kind of some weather stripping things like that that'll help energy efficiency and then you will they'll kind of give you advice on and recommendations on other things that you can do to increase your energy efficiency lower your bills um and also give you information about rebates that um you can use to do that. So great opportunity. I just found out that as city council member I am eligible to participate. So, get in line ahead of me. Um, there are only again until May 31st, uh, you get it for free. After that, it it will cost you money, so take advantage. All right. Thanks. Thank you, Council Member Mey. Uh, Council Member Kley. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I just want to say a couple weeks ago, I went to community u mediation restorative services annual um recognition event. Um and I just want to say that's a um really good organization if folks don't know about it. It's an organization that support community around mediation issues. So it could be housing, it could be parks, it could be neighbor to neighbor, it could be um any type of issue, community issue um that may occur. Um I would encourage the city to continue to use this service um as a service to our community. Um and um um it's just a great organization and they do really good work. Um I had volunteered on it for a little while and I got a chance to go to Hidden County and do some mediation for housing and so I would just encourage um us to continue to use it and if anything comes up in our city um whether it's in the schools or just like I said in other places um it's a great service to use. So thank you. Thank you council member Kley. Um, Council Member Calbertt. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I just want to wish everyone um who cares to celebrate Cinco de Mayo a happy Cinco deio. And uh I I may have mentioned I'm on the Southwest Suburban Cable Commission. And um it's an interesting time with a lot of rule making rule making changes at the federal level. So, it's actually a really interesting time to be on that commission. Um, but I just I was elected chair um partially because of an impending uh retirement uh in our uh IT department here and um so I am glad I've been attending all the meetings and I hope that before uh Patty Leam leaves she'll uh impart her wisdom. Thank you, Council Member Calbertt. Anyone Anyone else? Council member Wilburn. Just very quickly, uh, what was it? [Music] Um, let's see. Anyone else? Um, just a couple of quick things. I had the opportunity to go to Hamlin University today to speak at Professor David Schultz's um a graduate class and uh um so I was with the students for an hour talking about um city government uh what cities do um the opportunity to be close to the customer because uh this this government is closest to the customer um of any of the levels of uh government and so we had a good time. It was um I enjoyed the students. I think they learned quite a bit. Professor Schulz even indicated that he learned a little bit. So um hopefully some of my cont content uh was meaningful to the recipients, but it was it was very nice to be in his class and um the students were appreciative and I think they I think there were some things that they learned that will help them as they look at their their their political science graduate students and uh as they look to the future hopefully. I was at the last question I had was about jobs and jobs in cities and uh and I directed them both to our uh city website as well as to the League of Minnesota Cities website because uh there are um cities are great places to work and uh there are opportunities. So if anyone's interested, check that out. So that's all I have. So that um takes us to um the next item on the agenda, which is citizens wishing to discuss matters not on the agenda. So, if you have something that you would like to share with us and it's a matter that is not already on our agenda, please come forward and tell us what you want us to hear. We will not take any action on the item that you identified tonight, but we will turn it over to staff and there will be followup with you concerning your issue. So, is there anyone who would like to come forward on this item? Anyone at all? All right, seeing no one, we will move forward. Uh, next item is bids and purchases and we have one item in this section. It is uh bids for the 2025 mill and overlay project and Mr. Manchester that is your report. I do. Thank you, Mayor. Good evening, Mayor and Council before you the 2025 uh mill and overlay. This is a project that provides in line with our CIP and our pavement management program. We have two recommendations tonight. The first being to award the contract uh for the mill and overlay and the second being to um authorize our city engineer to spend the funds without exceeding a budget. Um it's related to our strategic profile through our infrastructure and asset management uh desired outcome 52 for our safe quality and well-maintained roadway system. And the project includes these pavement management improvements in a cost-effective manner to improve the surface and extend the life. Uh we have a project location. We have a number of streets included. A lot of these are in the Opus area. Um these streets have been just held off on just due to the amount of work that's going on there. Uh it includes a portion of Bren Road East and Red Circle Drive. These would be um finished in 2026 following some other construction activities. So rather than do those projects fully now, we are proposing to allocate those funds in 26. It also includes Minnitanka Terrace, Minnitankka Industrial Road, and Deval Place. Uh bids were opened on April 18th, 2025, we did receive four bids. Our low bidder is GH Asphalt Corporation, who has done similar work in Minnotonka. Uh per all these projects, uh we do make sure that residents have access. Um during construction, we make sure that mail, garbage, all those services are coordinated. Um our construction hours are 7 to 10. Generally, these contractors work until around 5:00. It's very rare that we go past that. uh but they would have the ability and then Saturdays um those are as approved so we don't anticipate a lot of work on Saturday either as mentioned bids were open on the 18th uh your consideration tonight is to award the contract and then construction would begin uh as part of all our projects this is on our website through Minnetonka Matters so if uh residents or businesses would like to stay connected they can sign up for updates uh Mitch Hatcher is an engineering project coordinator who's leading this project. Um, as part of that update on the website, we also uh put signs in the neighborhoods and the areas where the work is being done to make sure we can get residents to sign up. They can just text right to that sign. We send out newsletters and then uh send out periodic updates as the work progresses. So, that I'll keep it short. Uh there's two recommendations tonight. Award the contract for the 2025 Milan Overlay project to GH Asphalt Corp. in the amount of $1,494,727.75 and then authorize our city engineer to expend the allocated funds for the project costs without further council approval provided the total project costs do not exceed the budget of $1,780. And I'll turn it back to the mayor and council for any questions. Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Manchester. Uh council, any questions on this uh pretty significant project? We don't see mill and overlay projects um of almost uh almost $1.8 million. So, it's a big expenditure. Any questions or comments or a motion? Oh, council member Mey. Yes. Um just a quick question. Can you remind me uh water and sewer and street overlays? Like Minnetonka is kind of different from some of our neighbors in that we don't do special assessments for those. Correct. So, this is something that we all pitch in as neighbors and our community. So, you know, when we get our street work done as well as our water and sewer, um, you know, it's something that we share amongst the community instead of getting an extra 10 or 15 or $20,000 hit on as a special assessment. Is that correct? That goes for overlays, milling overlays as well. Yep. Correct. Mayor, Council Member Mey, the city does not ex ass assess for project of this type. It's included in our street fund as well as our utility fund and our uh storm sewer. So there's no assessments for project of this type or reconstruction. Right. And so instead of waiting for systems or streets to fail, we are doing this as part of our preventative uh maintenance to make sure that our roadways are consistently high performing. Correct. Thank you. Any other comments or questions or a motion? Council member Romey, I make the motion. Oops. I make the motion to award the contract for the 2025 mill and overlay project to GH Asphalt Corporation in the amount of $1,494,727.75 and authorize the city engineer to expend the allocated funds for project costs without further council approval provided the total project costs do not exceed the project budget of 1,780,000. Thank you. And a second. Thank you, mayor. I'll second. All right, we've got a motion by council member Romey and a second by council member Calbertt. Miss Faulk, please call roll. Foster Bolton, yes. Shaq, yes. Wilburn, yes. Calbertt, yes. Rome, yes. Kley, yes. Wears, yes. Motion carries. Um, next items on the agenda, item 10 is the consent agenda. And these are items that require um consent agenda items that require a majority vote. Um, we have four items tonight. The way um consent agenda items work is that I will read them into the record and if anyone would like to pull an item for separate consideration um please indicate whether somebody either in the audience or a council member um then we will uh review the item that gets pulled or excuse me we'll vote on the items that have not been pulled um in one motion and one vote and then if something has been pulled we will take that off the list and we'll circle back to it. Um, and then the person who um pulls it will um make the point they want to make or ask the question they want to ask and then we will um uh return and vote that item individually. So, I will read these into the record. If someone would like to pull one, please raise your hand and um um and um shout out and let us know that you'd like to have it pulled. Otherwise, we'll just work through this. So, um, item 10 A is a resolution supporting the 2020 the fiscal year 2026 community project funding. Um, and then item 10B is conditional use permit for an attached accessory dwelling unit, ADU, at 4219 Oak Drive Lane. Item 10 C is a conditional use permit for a detached accessory dwelling unit AD ADU at 9597 Sandra Lane. And item 10D is the strategic plan quarter 1 report. So would anyone on the council in the audience like to uh pull any of these items for separate consideration? If not, is there a motion? Council member Calvert. Thank you, Mayor. I move approval of a consented agenda items 10 A, 10B, 10 C, and 10 D. Thank you. And is there a second? Council member Shaq. Thank you, Mayor. I'll second. All right. We've got a motion by Council Member Calvert and a second by Council Member Shack. Miss Faulk, please call roll. Foster Bolton, yes. Shaq, yes. Wilburn, yes. Calbertt, yes. Raley, yes. Kley, yes. We yes. Motion carries. Item 11 is consent agenda items requiring five votes and we have no none of those tonight. Item 12 is introduction of ordinances and there are none of those tonight. Item 13 is public hearings and we have none of those. So we're moving along smartly here tonight. And so um item 14 is other business and we have two items. The first is 10A items concerning First International Bank and Trust at 10801 Weisetta Boulevard. And um Miss Thomas, I believe that's your report. Thank you, Mayor Worerome. Uh council members, this property is located in the southeast quadrant of the Hopkins Crossroad I394 interchange. The existing building, it's roughly about 15 55,000 square feet in size and was constructed back in 1985. First International Bank purchased the property at the beginning of this year and are proposing significant remodeling to the the 40-year-old building and the site itself. [Applause] The building changes would include refinishing the building's brick facade, uh addition of some metal paneling, uh throughout, and construction of a more prominent uh front entry feature. A drive-thru window would also be constructed on the east side of the building, and that window area would be covered by a 5- foot wide metal canopy. um that canopy itself would not be structurally integral to the building so could be removed at a future date um if a different user were to take over. Site changes then include um some pedestrian improvements. There's currently no sidewalks north or south of the building. They would be installed as part of uh this project. And then indeed that installation of the drive-thru lane um to service the drive-through windows here on the east side of the building. That lane would be a single lane uh 12 ft in width and would actually be bridged over uh the driveway to the existing underground uh garage. To accommodate the site work, there would be some earth work that would need to occur resulting in removal of some landscaping, but that landscaping removed would all be replaced. And I I would note that the landscaping removed is not in a a natural area, but is landscaping that's uh installed or or replaced over the the 40-year life cycle of of this building. The changes do uh require approval of a master development plan because there's not one in place for this site, approval of final site and building plans and then the conditional use permit um for the drive-thru facility. Staff does support um this for two reasons as were pointed out in your staff report. First, uh, all of the applications would meet, uh, city code standards outlined, uh, for their, uh, specific application. And then also staff really, uh, supports kind of the modernization of the 40-year-old building and the ability to allow for reuse uh, of that site. The planning commission did consider this proposal at its last meeting and concurred with staff's recommendation uh recommending that the council adopt the master uh development plan and then approve the conditional use permit and final site and building plans. And with that, I would turn it back to you, Mr. Mayor, for any questions. Um thank you, Miss Thomas. Um council, any questions for staff on this project? Anyone? Council member Romey. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, just a couple of quick questions. Um, first of all, just preface it by saying I think the project looks great. Um, but I did have questions on the trees and native plantings. I saw that in the acquirement. I was just curious, do we have any followup like, you know, sometimes we do with trees where we require, you know, we do a look back at that, Miss Thomas? uh chair and uh council member Romele. Um the city does require uh as part of this project I'll just hold for a minute. Uh the city does uh require as part of this project the the landscape plan uh be put in place. Uh typically we require some type of cash escrow or a letter of credit to ensure that those plantings are uh made. um we do go back then within a year of of the planting, so one year of the growing season to ensure that um everything has survived. Um beyond that, and there's many properties throughout our community, if if landscaping is not in place that was required, at any time, city staff can be called out to that site and require um replanting of things that were required. Oh, great. That's good to know. Um just another couple of quick uh items. Let's see. Um so the roof is the roof going to be repaired and replaced as part of this. Uh Mr. Mayor and and council members, I believe there is going to be work done on the roof, but I can um refresh my memory. Okay. Okay. Just wondering if this was going to be a solar ready roof and uh if we have a list of any um energy improvements that are going to be, you know, uh um enacted on this or constructed on this. So, it's good to know and set an example, you know, for other um reconstructs in the community. And so, if if those are going to happen, you know, if there's any way that we can encourage it. I know they're not code yet, but um you know, kind of help facilitate that by educating or informing um the developer of that. You know, that would be great. Yeah. Mayor Worerome and council members um uh you are really echoing a lot of the comments at the planning commission. They also uh encouraged um uh solar readiness. That's not something that the building owner at this time is is prepared to do, but there are going to be significant improvements just in energy efficiency to this building. Um perhaps the applicant is here tonight and can speak more directly to those. Okay. Well, if not, hopefully in the future that's something we can take up either as a as a community, as a council in terms of our our codes or regionally um you know, through the Met Council or other things. Something to hopefully keep in mind for the future. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any other questions from council? Um I I've got one quick one. Um as I looked at this, we know we're going to have a drive-thru. We know drive-throughs, you know, are getting more and more controversial just from an environmental perspective, but it's pretty tough to have a bank without a drive-thru. But I was having a conversation um on this topic and the other thing was that you know we talk about stacking and and how many cars you can have waiting and so forth, but in reality while I was talking to Mr. Funk about this um when's the last time you went through a drive-thru at a bank and when's the last time you had to wait in line? Because with online baking and you know take a picture of your check to deposit it, um the need to go through a drive-thru is dramatically reduced. And so, um, I understand the need, but the question I had was, um, a lot of drive-throughs now have ATMs, and I did not see any indication that this, uh, project at the drive-thru included an ATM or access to an ATM. So, I was just curious about that, Miss Thomas, do you know? U, Mr. Mayor, I I do not know other than that there will be a drive-thru window. Um, the same application would a process would apply. It wouldn't be a separate conditional use permit application. Um, a drive-thru facility, whether it's serving via window and ATM or either or. Um, is the same process. Okay. I didn't see anything designated and I'm I assume that the process is the same. So, I don't know um if the applicant is here and has anything to add. Um, they're certainly welcome to, but not required to. Um, but if you have anything that you'd like us to know about um before we uh vote on this um please um come forward, state your name and address and uh and share any comments you'd like us to have. Hello, my name is Andy Fet. Uh address is 212 Greenway Drive in Devil. Uh I am here on behalf of First International Bank and Trust. I work for JLG Architects uh as a project manager. I can talk to a couple of the questions here that were asked. Um, first I'll address the kind of building envelope energy upgrades that we're doing. We are not exploring uh solar panels at this time on the roof, but we will be uh replacing the roof. Uh, as of right now, we're planning to completely tear off the existing roof and replace to meet the current energy code. Um, we're also planning to replace all of the existing aluminum curtain wall. So all the glass that you see on the building will be replaced. It's it's really in need of complete replacement. So there will be a pretty significant uh energy upgrade with that process. And then the the drive-thru itself, yes, it will have a kind of a traditional transaction drawer, uh but it also will have an ATM there associated with it, too. So very good. Well, thank you. And council, any other questions um for the applicant otherwise? Yeah. Um yeah, go ahead. Thank you, mayor. Um just would encourage I understand that, you know, you might not be ready to put solar panels on. I do hope that you will consider having a solar ready Sure. roof. Um I know it's a little bit more expensive, but given that site, it's a really good site for potential solar panels in the future. And um you know, if there's any way we can facilitate information about rebates and things like that, um would love to see that happen in our community. That's something that's really a value for us. and uh you know would appreciate you helping us lead on that. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, council. Anything else? All right. I think we'll we'll bring it back to the council, but thanks very much for your comments. Um so I'll bring it back to the council and um we uh we need and well any comments from council or or a motion? Council member Calbert. I'll do both. Um I think that I think it looks great. Um, I appreciate um all of the comments and suggestions being made and the observations about uh drive-throughs. And I did have some trouble visualizing what the drivethru was going to look like based on the images that we were sent. So, I appreciate Miss Thomas um saying that basically it's bridging over the um garage access, which is interesting and I'm very interested to see how that will look. But I think I think it'll be a really attractive building. Um, so I am very pleased to move approval of the or uh of the ordinance adopting the master development plan and the resolution approving a conditional use permit and final site and building plans. Very good. And a second. Um, council member Romey. Thank you, mayor. I'll second. All right. And maybe I jumped ahead a little bit. I don't know if anyone has any any other comments they'd like to make on this project. Council member Shaq. Thank you, Mayor. Just very briefly, you know, I appreciate it. It's very uh much an improvement on that building attractive and I think it's a testament to the corridor, the Ridgel corridor and keeping the area vibrant and it seems like a place not right at Ridgel but you know we're continuing to make it a place where people want to be which is um which is very good for the city. Thank you councelor Shack and and I was going to add but I don't want to cut anybody off. Um, you know, it's to me it's very encouraging that a building of this size is being repurposed. Um, there are so many buildings um in the metro that they're talking about how what are we going to do with them? How can they be converted? Um, are the demand for office space is down dramatically. Um and uh and so to have a building that is going to be improved, be more en energy efficient and stay an office building in Minnetonka is I think very um a positive statement as council member Shaq said, but um really good news environmentally and everything else because scraping a building is not great for the environment. I mean, a lot of things go to waste, a lot of things go um into landfills and uh we're going to have a building that is, you know, pretty close to state-of-the-art. Um, and we're retaining a 40-year-old building and reusing it. And people who know me know I hate throwing things away. So, so reuse of this building to me is very positive for our community. So, we have a motion by Council Member Calbert and a second by Council Member Moraley. Um, Miss Faulk, would you please call roll? Foster Bolton? Yes. Shaq, yes. Wilburn, yes. Calbert, yes. Rome, yes. Kley, yes. Reome, yes. Motion carries. Um, next item, uh, 14B is kind of the actionpacked part of our, um, council meeting tonight. And, um, thank you all for coming. And I will say, you know, this is a little bit like a worship service. There is space in the front row if anyone would like a chair. Um, um, not a lot, but we do have space. So, if someone would like a chair, they're welcome to that. Um, and so the next item is the Minnitonka off leash strategy and guidance plan. And so, um, I'm going to turn this to Mr. Funk and Mr. Kuma will follow. But, uh, Mr. Funk, take it away. And, uh, thank you all for being here. Thank you, Mayor and Council. Just a couple comments before I ask Mr. Kuma to present. First, just want to just as a prelude to our whole conversation. And I I know I've said this to you I think a few of you o over my time in Minnetonka and that is in my 28 years in public service in service and working across five different communities I found that two topics consistently rise to the top when it comes to complex and passionate public policy decisions parking and barking and we've tackled both uh in the last couple years. Uh the off leash dog policy is one of those areas where strong passion exists on on all sides and and and for good reason. Uh there's no one-sizefits-all solution, no clear right or wrong. The real challenge lies in balancing a wide range of perspectives and interests. It seems like the most difficult task in these types of conversations is threading that needle between competing interests and that takes compromise. And I think I alluded to many of these comments I just made uh to the work group here uh recently. And as all of us know, compromise is at the heart of achieving balance. And I want to thank our staff for their thoughtful, measured approach to developing this strategy. Tonight, you'll hear a presentation from Mr. Kuma, our parks and trails manager, and his thoughtful work aimed at achieving just that kind of balance. Additionally, I want to take a moment to acknowledge and thank all of our staff who have worked on this uh for their efforts in crafting a strategy that is practical, forward-looking, and grounded in community needs that meets our strategic goal of inclusiveness. I also want to recognize the contributions of our off leash work group and the Minnitankka Park Board. These volunteers gave their time, energy, and perspectives in good faith, bringing insight in the desire to help Minnetonka find a sustainable path forward. As you'll hear from Mr. Kuma's presentations in just a minute, I would encourage you to consider a foundational question and that is what is the appropriate number of acres that Minnetonka should dedicate to off leash dog recreation particularly as it relates to Purgatory Park. And if you can find that clarity around how much I really think that will help guide the decisions around where that goes. And in closing, I'd like to just really turn it over to Mr. Kuma and really want to thank everyone involved. I know many in our audience have reached out to uh council and to myself and I appreciate um everyone that's taken uh part in this conversation. It goes without saying that we've spent u this conversation going back over a year. Um certainly more intense moments than others and really look forward to the thoughtfulness uh the respectful dialogue and the spirit of compromise that this conversation truly calls for. So with that mayor and council really like to turn over to Mr. Kuma for his presentation. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Funk. Mr. Kuma, welcome and and thank you for all the work you put into this. I know it's been um um significant. Thank you so much, Mayor uh council. Um thank you so much for this opportunity. It's it's it's been a long journey, but we're excited to be here tonight. So the question and recommended action at hand. Do you have any changes to the Minnotonka off leash dog strategy and guidance plan, including the implementation of off leash areas in Purgatory Park? And then the recommended action is the motion to adopt the Minnotonka off leash dog strategy and guidance plan including the implementation plan for Purgatory Park. So um some strategic plan relatability here. Um safe and healthy community. We want to create initiatives to enhance community well-being to engage residents to build trust and prioritize programs education, hazard mitigation and emergency response. We have a focus on sustainability, resilience and the natural environment. And of course we focus on community inclusivity inclusiv inclusiveness. Got it. Thank you. So a little bit of background. The Purgatory Park master plan was adopted by the city council last fall. It included extensive public engagement during that process. Um we identified the need to consider off leash dogs in purgatory as well as other park spaces. So, a little bit, this was uh previous data that had been presented to the council during that Purgatory Park master plan. And you'll see really uh um um a mixed bag here in terms of opinions. So, um 50% of folks think that the city of Minnotonka's off leash dog ordinance should be changed to not allow dogs. So, 50% strongly disagreed with that. Um 49% agre thought that the off leash park rules are appropriate and should not be changed. Um we have um strong disagreement on whether purgatory parks should have a fenced in off leash dog area. Um and then this 40% strongly disagreed that off leash dogs are a safety concern in the parks while 24% strongly agreed, 19% somewhat agreed, and 17% somewhat disagreed. So really a mixed bag of opinions out there. Um, so out of the survey responses we've received, 47 of those survey responses to this particular question, things that discourage park use, 47% of those respondents issued the presence of off leash dogs would discourage their potential park use. Now, this is just the responses we've got to this particular question during that master planning process. So, a little bit more on the background. November 2024, the city council adopted new ordinance that came out of the master planning process. Dogs to be on leash, a 20 foot retractable leash at large citywide and in parks except for designated off leash areas. This park ordinance goes into effect on May 19th, which is coming up on us. The council directed staff at that point to convene a citizen-based community off leash dog workg group to assist in finding these designated off leash areas and providing recommendations around them. In April 2025, just recently, the park board reviewed and recommended alternative options. So, included in the report is a is a broad outline of the surrounding communities and their general statistics around off leash areas. Um, so a variety of stats in here available for deeper de uh dive in the in the report. Overall, the community work group was comprised of representatives from a variety of community groups in the city, uh, public works staff, police, park board members, and other residents. Um, we recruited folks through an application process. These were appointed by the city council last winter. We met three times between January, February, and March. We developed criteria based on priorities and as broad of a shared understanding as we could reach. The process focused on identifying agreement and facilitating trade-offs among various interests of that group. We identified guiding principles and relevant plans to to advise our work. The importance of off leash areas. We understand that it's a social exercise opportunity for many longtime park users. We also all agreed that the importance of welcoming as many park users into our park spaces as possible that really they should be open for as many residents as we could and that generally park uses that uses that infringe on others enjoyments through under under unwanted interactions degrade in the overall experience throughout the park system. We also agreed that there was an importance of natural resources protection, that all land uses should be implemented with the goal of reducing impact wherever possible, and that a healthy world is highly regarded in Minnotonka. Um, related documents, our parks, open space and trails plan, this one's a few years old now. It lays out broad approaches throughout the park system. The natural resources master plan, um, I'll refer to it as the NRMP, laid out strategies for restoration and assessment of natural resources throughout our park system. And then finally the purgatory park master plan that I referenced earlier. The community workg group came up with a summary of recommendations. Um these focused around three buckets. Planning, design, and operations. So planning would be criteria related to the location and distribution of these off leash areas within Minnotonka throughout our park system. Design would be criteria related to design aspects of the specific off leash area wherever it may be located. And then operations are how we would run that particular area. Things like trash, things like signage and education and the enforcement of those rules applied to those off leash areas. The planning recommendations um had some key characteristics to them. Specifically, a distance from residential properties to alleviate the sound and disturbance of these off leash areas, a general size. We understood that, you know, folks want to be able to walk with their with their dog in the park and and available site considerations and applied criteria would some somewhat limit the size, but we'd ultimately try to get as large as we could. We certainly wanted access and parking. We wanted dedicated parking with some ADA compliance. We generally wanted these to be distributed throughout the city knowing that we're we're fairly large city and folks are everywhere. Um, these two planning recommendations sort of fit two buckets that I describe here. So, sort of naturalized areas. This would be a minimum of two acres. They'd have a loop trail system. They would comp be comprised of both hard and soft barriers, which I'll get into in a second here. And then the suburban style, I hesitated to call it urban style because we are Minnitonka after all, but these would be your more of your traditional dog parks, fully fenced, um, highly trafficed areas where people could get off on and off our busier roads and use these off leash dog parks. The design recommendations I hinted at barriers. So hard barriers would be fencing and gates. So controlled ent entrances such as the numerous dog parks in our surrounding cities and communities. And then this idea of soft barriers. Where could we sort of create edges to these offly spaces? Could we accomplish that with long sight distances where dogs wouldn't be able to see people walking in the distance or other dogs? Is there a nature to the topography or the vegetation that would essentially be able to distinguish and separate off leash dogs from other park users? Operations, how we'd function in these spaces. So, um with a focus on environmental protection, signage, amenities, waste management, and other um variety of considerations that you see in dog dog parks. We generally want to locate these in lower quality or altered plant communities. Um these would be areas consisting of invasive species where possible possible. We certainly still have some of those left in Minnetonka. We'd ideally want to be um some buffer from open water bodies, natural flowing waters and lakes. Clear and concise signage that would clearly convey the rules to people in the city and people visiting our parks. Um signage to help clarify where these quote unquote soft barriers would be as necessary. ideally not cluttering the park too much with um signage and an appropriate sighting and location of waste bags and trash cans so you don't have to carry that about that that bag around too long. So the group also talked about implementation in Purgatory Park and we identifi there was we did our best to identify for the immediate consideration of development in the designated off leash areas knowing that on May 19th the park ordinance was going to kick into effect. The work group did their best to apply these criteria with varying results. There was really no final consensus on specific location details, although I'll get into more specifics here. And staff recommendation was ultimately two areas that did our best to um work with this established criteria, input from the workg group, and it was really an attempt at a compromise. So staff recommendation that was presented to the park board. There are two areas here, area one and area two. These proposed areas would have barriers determined on site according to those criteria. So really a blend of hard and soft barriers depending on the specific site conditions. For instance, area one, there's a primary trail, one of the trails that we actively maintain along the north and the east side of area 1. That would likely require a hard barrier. Um we'd we'd obviously want to update signage and amenities through there such as waste stations and trash recepticles. Um, these areas are generally limited to lower quality or degraded habitat, but there is some concession in a highquality area that I'll showcase in the next slide here. Some of these areas could be accomplished with invasive spee species removal that could open new areas to the dog walkers. Um, currently there's some tunnels through buckthornne and other dense vegetation that folks travel through to get to the more open um, prairie, the open vistas. Um, the off leash use could be generally contained and limit unwanted interactions as best as possible with general enforcability working with our police and public safety to enforce the ordinance. Area two in the south um is is generally accomplished on a topographic null. There's an old homestead site there. There is a primary trail to the southoutheast side which would probably require some gate gate and and hard barriers through that area but generally the topography is such that it's pretty distinct that you're up on that particular node. So area one was representing on this map 7.2 2 to 9.7 acres and that's knowing that there'd be some field fitting of these barriers in in the park and area 2 is 6.1 to 8.3 acres. So as a reference the natural resources master plan we a couple years ago worked to establish habitat quality. So what you're seeing on this map here is the green areas are what we considered a quality habitat. The tan yellow was Bquality habitat and the pink was Cality habitat. So a range of um high quality canopy trees all the way down to essentially 100% invasive species and a blend in between. So shown in red now are the two staff recommended areas. So area one and area two. So you can see area one does encroach on the green high quality area. Um but generally through that location is where a lot of off leash folks gather. Now um there is a highly used entrance from Stadola although there is concerns about traffic coming off Stadola sort of on the southeast corner there. So that the thought was that that arm or tail from area one would would somewhat connect to a southern entrance and that there could be some entrance there. And generally speaking, that trail that's commonly used by off leash folks now would remain in this designated off leash area. And then that area too on the south is all sequality habitat, lower quality habitat. There was a house there back in the day. So again, the hard barriers would include fencing in key areas along the primary trails and generally easy access and entry points that would limit this on leash, off leash tension when you have a dog on a leash versus a dog off leash. Um so designing these barriers and gates in a way that would limit that as much as possible. We would establish these soft barriers based on the visibility of the primary trails. Um, we do want to recognize that the wetland certainly freezes in the winter and how much of a barrier is there is is somewhat to be determined. Um, and really the proposed areas in the staff recommendation really were our attempt to recognize a a balance and a concessions of a variety of considerations based on the criteria that the work group produced. Um, so that was our stat. So we presented that to the park board. The park board back in April um referred back to the Purgatory Park master plan figure that can be seen here. This is on page 45 of the Purgatory Park master plan. This is dogs in the park map. So this shows on leash areas and limit conflicts in areas such as primary trails, buffers along trails, the parking lot, trail intersections, etc. Off leash areas would include all the other spaces. A hard barrier. The park board referred to a hard barrier being required along the eastern primary trail and they included the south ridge. So there's an oak ridge through there that would be primarily off leash. They recommended adoption of the Minnotonka off leash dog strategy and guidance plan amended with this inclusion of of the motion with this figure above. So they also asked that we bring an expedited implementation plan for up to three additional parks based on the workg groupoup criteria guidance plan and the natural resources master plan with a special distinction on that particular plan. So again the park board recommendation this what we did here was we created a an updated version of the master plan figure and we sort of um brought in the language of the staff recommendation figure. So, this includes five areas in total. Um, and sort of translates the inverse of those pink areas on the map on the right to to being the on leash or the off leash areas in the map on the left. And there's a variety of areas and acreages associated with each one of those areas. And I'll get into that further. So, overall additional considerations. Um, the Purgatory Park is 155 acres in total. The staff recommended size would range from 13.3 to 18 acres and that would constitute 8.5 to 11.6% of the total park. The park board recommend recommended the purgatory park master plan figure which is 92 to 124 acres uh 59.4% to up to 80% of the park. Also included on this figure are the city inventoried wetland areas. Those are those blue stipples. So, uh, that sort of helps visualize the park. Those are broad cattail and and and sedge meadows through that the shallow part where purgatory comes through the creek. Those represent 47 acres. Um, there's a couple outliers in area two off to the southwest. There's sort of a pocket wetland in there. Um, and there's a really beautiful perched wetland in area three with some trails around it. That's really interesting. Sedge. Um, but they represent about 30% of the park overall. Also, area four is the northeast corner. This was identified by the community work group as has having a ton of potential to it. Um, this is approximately 8 to 11 acres. It would represent 5 to 7% of the park. Um, this includes the Red Barn site location. It's not officially part of the park yet, but the master plan identified folding it into the to the border of the park overall. Um, so this is a rolling hill area. There is some high quality maple basswood forest in there that the NRMP identified. Um, but otherwise it's adjacent to Excelsier Boulevard. It is quite rolling and topographically beautiful. It's an open canopy. There would need to be some buckthornne removal in there to open it up, but broadly speaking, it's it's about 8 to 11 acres in total. And then the other area of note that came up from the community work group is area five. That's got kind of a hatch to it in the northwest corner. It is surrounded by residential homes and it is densely infested with invasive species and it's very thick shrubs at this point. It would take some um mowing forestry mowing of that area to sort of open it up to make it a bit more available to the off leash dogs in that area and that also is 8 to 11 acres about 5 to 7% of the park. We also discussed in the community work group the need for considering areas throughout the park system, not just purgatory. So the the park group or the community work group did apply these criteria to a variety of parks. We printed out maps and drew all over them. Um both large community parks and smaller neighborhood parks. Um we look to accommodate these natural off leash areas and the suburban style off leash areas. So those more fenced in discrete urban style parks. We look to distribute these off leash areas throughout the city to accommodate as many folks as possible. We also wanted to recognize that the park master plan has a process to it that we we go out to citywide and local community outreach and engagement when we perform these master plans and that there's a variety of master plans scheduled through the CIP in the coming years. The one happening this year is Big Willow, which the community work group did identify a potential area in Big Willow. So that would be presented via the master planning process to the community for additional outreach saying the community workg group identified this location applied these criteria and we would uh solicit feedback on on that part particular consideration. The park board as mentioned earlier did request concepts for three additional parks at their upcoming meeting. So staff will be delivering those for discussion. So, I wanted to turn it briefly over to Captain Mayan to talk about enforcement. Welcome. Good evening, mayor, council members. I'm here tonight to talk about enforcement. So, most importantly, whatever is decided, we just need to make sure that the boundaries are clearly defined, whether that's physical boundaries or visual boundaries. Um the problems that we have now is that's one of the main issues is that those areas are not well delineated and so people don't know where off leash ends and on leash starts and vice versa. We found that signage alone while important to have to explain the rules by itself is often disregarded or ineffective. So we need more than that. Some of the limitations that we do have is that because some of our parks are so big and so spread out, it's sometimes difficult to locate um the violators and sometimes they have already leashed up their dogs and are on their way before we get there. We also have limited resources. So, we can't be at all the parks all the time. So, it makes those constant patrols impractical. And there is some concern that as these uh rules go into effect in May 19th is that the high volume of complaints about uh unleash dogs could put a strain on our resources that we do have. Um there's a concern that some of our dog owners may actively resist or ignore the new rules, but we're hoping that with education and a visible presence, we'll help build voluntary compliance. Our initial outreach is going to include a lot of education including signs, flyers, and maps and in park engagement. We're going to start with uh Purgatory Park and make our way through the rest of the parks. The information will be dissemined through our city website, the Minnitankka memo, and other city and police social media sites. We're also going to be deploying extra patrols, which includes our police staff on our newly acquired ebikes so that they can get further into the park faster. And again, starting with purgatory and then working our way through the rest of the parks. Our long-term enforcement plan is going to be a complaintbased model. And so, while we'll spend a lot of park time in the parks with education at the beginning, it will eventually move more to complaint-based. I just want to reiterate that as uh both Matt and city manager Funk have said, there is no perfect solution for this, but we believe that a consistent approach can improve our safety and compliance and build our public trust. Thank you, Captain Mian. And with that, I'd like to offer the opportunity, mayor, councel, to answer questions as necessary. Um, do you have any changes to the Mitaka off leash dog strategy and guidance plan, including the imple implementation of the Purgatory Park features? Thank you. Very good. Well, thank you, Mr. Kuma. Are there um first of all um I'll turn to council and say do you have any questions based on the report that we've just received for staff council member Rome. Thank you Matt. Um thank you for that very comprehensive report. Thank you mayor. Um could you go back to we kind of went through the slide really quickly which was the comparatives what um other parks in the area are um in the metro area. So what's the average um of of for municipal parks in the area? Uh, Mayor Wearsome, uh, council. Um, we didn't calculate an average, but I think generally it would be somewhere in that 10 to 20 or so range. There are some quite large ones, um, in the mix here. Some of the three rivers parks are are quite large. Um, but generally, I'd say it's between that 10 and 20 or so acreage. I actually did take a look. So, um, for both municipal and regional parks, first of all, there are 40 dog parks within a 20 mile radius of Minnetonka. There are 20 18 to 20 within 10 miles. So, I didn't know if staff was aware of that, but that's certainly something that I think, you know, maybe we want to take into consideration as we're doing our planning. Um secondly, the vast majority of parks were under 10 acres total um from my count and that um there was a handful of uh others between 15 and 20 at the municipal level at the city level. Um the regional level kind of went more from about 15 to 30 acres total. There was two outliers that I found in the entire metro area and all of them were fenced except for two that I found and one was out in Woodbury um which is a 70 acre park. It's a dedicated park that um was donated for a dedicated purpose. It was never been used for anything else. Um and the other one was right out here in Long Lake, which is about 39 acres. Again, donated, dedicated park. Um you know, those are both partially fenced to my knowledge. So those are the outliers. And most of even the regional parks, the biggest regional parks at around 30 and most of the uh municipal parks were coming in at 10 or less with a couple between 15 and 20. Does that sound about right? It does. Yes. All right. Thank you. I'll hand it over as I think that's important context for all of us to keep in mind going forward. How no I'll tell you what you know um people will have a chance to comment but we don't need any outbursts or any commenting from the audience. Um we're going to have a respectful orderly meeting tonight and you will have your opportunity. Um we don't allow signs. We don't allow cheering or jeering. And if we have to shut the meeting down, we will. So, please be respectful. And if you have comments, come to come forward, state your name and address, and make your comments. But we're not going to have um comments and uh uh cheering or jeering or anything like that um during this meeting. So, I just want to be clear so that everyone knows what the rules are. So, thank you. Um other questions, comments, council member Foster Bolton. Yeah, Mr. Can you go back to the um map where the in area one where the prairie is? Okay. Yeah. So the red um is area one and so there's you know large percentage of high quality prairie there. Is there any separation between that and the other side? Do you know what I mean? Is that a fence right there that that separates that area? Is that a fence? Are you speaking to the west or the south? Yeah, sorry. To the west. We had considered that being accomplished with a soft barrier that potentially that there are sight lines of such a distance that would accomplish that. So then I mean to the east to the east is our primary trail through that our our managed and maintained trail. So that would require a hard fence and the the work group did acknowledge that. Okay. Sorry. No worries. Um so there would be a fence through the through the high quality. Yes. Okay. And then I don't know if you can answer me this, but how many acres do we have in Minnetonka of highquality prairie? Do you know? I do not know. Okay. How many here? Do you know in this park? [Music] Um 125 12 15 acres. I know that area one shown here is 7 to 2 to 9, right? 7 right and I mean I I asked the question how many other acres there is another um two to three acres and I forgot where it is if anybody on this council knows but it's like the it was um it's 2 to three acres I think it's in another park but it's in in Minnetonka it's not used do you know what I'm talking about in Adjacent to Jadana Park to the west is Hickory Island. Yes. Thank you. How big is that? I don't know. Five, six, seven. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I know. Okay. Sorry. Huh? He's He's going to work. All right. Um Okay. So, it looks like this is a you know, I would say I don't know. I'm terrible at percentages, but like 30% [Applause] would you say? Seems accurate. And this is the And that's the only area that we have in of high quality prairie in other than Hickory Park in Minnetonka that I could find. Okay, just so we're clear about that. Um and then so when you talk about consensus of the work group, so my idea of a consensus isn't a unanimous vote. It's one where you know a a vote where areas where people even if they don't like it, they could live with it. So there were none of those So there were none of those areas at all. Unfortunately, there were some areas that generally were agreed upon as being possible in the future. That would be area four and five. Um, can we go look at those again? Yes. So, the northeast and northwest up there. Um, area 5 was looked at via the Purgatory Park master plan process and did get some push back and frankly doesn't meet the criteria related to adjacent residential homes. So that was some of the criteria consideration that staff made trying to you know reach some sort of um, you know, general option that would meet the most criteria possible. Okay. Because from what I understood reading the the minutes of the workg group, it did look like because it looked like people were like in diff on different tables circling different areas and it looked to me like there was general consensus around those areas. But am I wrong? For the most part, area four and five, there were some of the tables that didn't circle them at all, and a lot of interest went into area 1 being mostly that's where a lot of the dogs are currently. Um, so I think there was some interest in that, but generally, um, area 5 wouldn't be ready for the May 19th opening. Area 4 would certainly require some hard fencing to be made into a designated off leash area because it's adjacency to Excelsier Boulevard. Okay. and the difficulty of having that fence installed by May 19th. Okay. [Music] Um I think I think I think that's it for now. For now. All right. Thank you. Uh Council Member Shack. Thank you, Mayor. Um I just my primary question is about um you know, one of the problems we've had in the past and I'm sorry, Mr. Nelson cuz I'm going to ask you a question that I know I think the answer is it depends cuz that would be my answer. But um uh one of the problems we've had in the past is that where there's been an enforcement issue, tickets have been challenged successfully in court because of the ambiguity. And I guess when I look at these, especially with soft barriers, is there a concern that we would face that same challenge if there was an enforcement issue that resulted in ticketing that we wouldn't have a clear enough um direction in our ordinance for any kind of legal enforcement? Mayor Mayor Weerson, Council Member Shaq. Um that's a good question and I think Captain Mi um sort of raised that point pretty clearly that there have been there there is difficulty in enforcing something where you don't have a clearly defined uh an understood boundary. People have to be on notice of um uh where a boundary is in or and and and our enforcement personnel by that same token have to be advised of that in order to enforce. So the answer would be it depends. Uh there may be ways to to um uh if I were more familiar with um some of the issues in creating these areas, uh there may be ways to clearly delineate that in some ways using the natural features uh and other associated, you know, signage and other things where we could maybe, you know, get to where we are. But I think I think it is likely that there would potentially still be some enforcement difficulty. Yes. Okay. Thank you, council. Other questions? Council member Wilbur. Um, so I wanted to to follow up a little bit on on what council member Foster Bolton was asking about. So I watched the park board uh meeting. Um, and it seems to me that there was a lot of or not a lot, there was some reticence around this May 19th deadline. Um, but to my understanding, and I voted on the ordinance, that the May 19th deadline doesn't mean that everything has to be in place by May 19th. It means that areas have to be designated. And it would be possible to say designate an area like designate area four before May 19th and then designate another area later because I will concede that area five is not I mean a lot it needs a lot of work before dogs can actually get in there and they're humans. Um, so I don't I guess I I don't that's a comment, but so um what is my understanding correctly on the May 19th deadline? Mayor Woram, uh Camp Council Member Wilburn. Yes, you are correct. The May 19th says that dogs would be allowed off leash in designated areas. If there are no designated areas at that point, then there would be no dogs allowed off leash in our park system. We've made it clear and we use that phrase designated areas that we we could designate those areas with signage in the field and mapping that that would that would accomplish the designation at that point. Okay. And then um could you explain to me on this picture you talked about uh southern entrance to area one. Is that like are you um that one? Thank you. Yes. Um, first of all, is north is at the top of Yes. Okay. making sure I'm getting this correct. So, right. Yeah. So are you envisioning like people are coming from Stadola Road and there's some sort of gate that they have fencing that they have to go through to enter on the southern and then is that the same thing happening on the northern side from people in the parking? Yes. So, my understanding both living near the park for over a decade now and walking with um dog folks out there is that they do come from the south across the bridge that crosses the creek and they leave the primary trail um sort of northwest through there and walk amongst the aspens. There is sort of a double trail there, one that's closer to the PI primary trail that we had considered removing in favor of the more western one that would lead to this area that's somewhat adjacent to the entrance from the Scenic Heights Elementary area. There's a trail that comes um east to west through there. There's a a bench, a memorial bench in that area that a lot of people gather at. So, an entrance could be compromised of some um uh split rail fencing that's staggered to some degree and could potentially acknowledge that this area is where you would be permitted to let your dog off or it could be a chain length fence with a gate situation. I think initially we were proposing that it would be more uh visually distinct. Okay. Thank you. Um just one final question. Could you um explain a little bit more about the the and I'm going to get my areas wrong, in area four, I believe, the the high quality tree area. And would that would you consider that more vulnerable to dog traffic than the than the prairie foot traffic in general, dogs or humans? Um erosion does build up. Um it's it's hard to say. I mean certainly there would be trails that would form. We could place trails using sustainable trail building methods. We'd follow topography in certain ways to reduce that erosion where possible. Um it also has to do with the soils. So in the prairie area there it tends to be sier through that area. I'm not really sure of the nature of the soils in area 4, but being woodland, more canopy, probably richer soils in that area could be more prone to erosion. But there are practices that we could employ that would reduce that as much as possible. Okay. Thank you. Other questions? Council member Romey. Oh, and then C, excuse me, Council Member Klay. Thank you, Mayor. I just had a couple questions or maybe even statements. I don't know um if it's okay to say it now, but if we're trying to preserve the area and we're trying to maintain the park and we've been really investing in the park. Um I'm just curious why would we I know we probably picked it that area because a lot of dog owners are in area one um and I had to go to the park to kind of understand like the area and cuz I'm more of a visual learner. But when I was looking at the area and I thought about a fence being on the east part of the um trail, I just it didn't really make a lot of sense to me as far as the visual. And then I know that um owners are concerned about having their um dogs to be able to run free. But when I think about um that space um as I stated before, I had experience where dogs did come up and I know the the fence would help with that, but um I kind of think about, you know, areas where you wouldn't have to sit in front of a fence because there's a bench there and I've sat there many times and I think about um just being in a space where now you're um surrounded by a fence. But then also um uh I don't know. I guess I guess for me I think the fence would kind of take away from the quality of the park area. And um yeah, so I I don't know. I just kind of was thinking about that. But um another question I want to ask if there's um if we have I didn't see anything talked about this in the master plan or any other plan. I know I brought this up before. Do you think if we had a paid park where people had to pay to have their dogs in different areas? Do you think that would help with our master plan? Because I know my sister was just telling me yesterday that she took her dog to Eden Prairie and they actually had a security standing at the gate and she was just trying to find a place to take her dog and the security came up to her, asked her questions, asked her, "How can we help you?" Um he explained there's a um a slot box where you can put money cash in. There was a place where you can do a monthly bill. So, I'm just wondering, have we considered that as part of our plan because I feel like um you know that's something that we should take into consideration as well. Mayor Wearsome, Council Member Kley, we did talk about lensure and paid programs during the master planning process and it didn't get a whole lot of traction in general. There were some concerns about the the logistics of running an additional program in the city. It was generally discussed, but it it didn't end up making it into the final draft of the purgatory master plan. Okay. Thank you. All right. Other questions? Council member Rome or Calbertt Council and then we we'll come back to Council Rome. Thank you, Mayor. Um I I've asked this before. I'm just curious, what are the penalties for violating the leash ordinance? Captain Miad, mayor, council member Culver, the violation for a first-time offense is a petty misdemeanor, which could be a fine up to $300. Um, subsequent violations or if the dogs are dangerous or or are endangering people in any way, could be a misdemeanor offense or higher. Well, that's all the that's all of the enforcement questions I have. Um, one one question I had, I just didn't see it in the report and because, you know, I'm just reading notes and there was a lot to read. Was there any discussion of a you know for instance we're we're mostly concentrating on Purgatory Park and one of the one of the criteria is trying to protect the creek and so forth. Um and I know that people especially on hot days they probably let their dogs jump in the water and drink some water. Um is was there any talk of a water source like that? You know, I go I we used to go to Bryant Lake uh dog park and there's uh a dog and human fountain at the entrance. Um Mayor Wearome, uh council member, we did talk quite a bit about standard dog park amenities including hydration and shadier areas and bathrooms. Frankly, we got lost in the sauce some to some degree related to Purgatory Park and the specifics there. Generally, there was agreement that these things, especially in the suburban style park that I referenced, would be very desired and and we could manage those as a as a park board. Um, some of my other questions have to do with, you know, there when I was reading the report from the working group, I I mean, there were clear camps and very little. I mean, you could just see from the scoring that that there were camps and, you know, strongly held opinions and there wasn't a lot of alignment. Um, and but there were criteria that had been somewhat agreed upon. And I'm just thinking back to the Lone Lone Lake Park mountain bike trail where that was not the original proposal and it was equally as contentious if not more so and you know we had to develop criteria and start scoring areas and so one of the things that I didn't was there a scoring rubric when you came up with I I just feel will there be for future Was there for this? Will will there be for future sites? The uh Mayor Wears, council member, there was a variety of voting related to the particular criteria. I felt the the consultant did their best to track those. We did some voting in person while on site. Um they applied sort of heat mapping to the ones that got the most interest and and generally ranked them as best as they could. Um but frankly the consultant didn't quite know the nature of our particular problem here as residents of Minnetonka. Um so we did sort of need to reboot the process midway to some degree and that's you know the looming deadline was always you know casting a shadow over us to some degree. Um and maybe some more conversations could have occurred around the criteria but we knew we had somewhat of a short fuse. Um, so generally they did their best to apply some sort of voting and ranking to those criteria and then the ones that rose to the top are the ones that you see in the report. And this is this is my last question for now. I have a million but I'll try to limit them. Um, and it may be one for actually uh Mr. OD or Mr. Manchester. So, one of the one of the suggestions from the working group was use of ice rinks in the off season and considering the um shorter skating the increasingly short skating season because of uh unseasonably warm weather. It seemed like for certain kinds of dogs in certain kinds of situations a creative solution and I see other communities Golden Valley does that. What are the considerations? Is are would is there like a number of dogs that would be like like would we have to put up a sign saying two dogs per rink at any given time? and what are the other considerations for that? Uh, Council Member Calbert, we did talk about um these seasonal rink usages. Other cities do that to some degree. Um, that would be applied during our master planning process. So, we do have a number of parks coming up that do have ranks. Purgatory doesn't have them. there wasn't a whole lot of general interest in those tiny style parks. I I do think they could be folded into the general understanding of a city-wide strategy. Um but because of our short views and our focus on purgatory, we didn't really dive into it. Council member Romey, your turn. Thank you, Mayor. Um I wanted to kind of get at something that I got a lot of emails about. Um, can you confirm or discuss the difference or what's being called the Purgatory Park master plan? Um, cuz it seems to me a lot of people are thinking that was the permanent plan. Can you go back to that and and discuss that because that has never been my understanding and I don't know if that was something that you know just kind of got mis accidentally misrepresented um in the park board meeting or not. Can you just please go back to that map and then and look at that because my understanding was that it codified the pre-existing use that it at most it was supposed to be a a temporary solution like 1 to 3 years max while a more permanent solution either in purgatory or elsewhere was identified but maybe I'm wrong so can you just kind of clarify that certainly council member Romele um mayor we wor Um, it's important to remember that master plans are about trying to identify a prioritization list of things that need to be rolled out in the park. So, because off leash dogs was such a big deal in purgatory, we knew the ordinance rule at that time, we we thought it important to include a figure saying this is what the ordinance currently allows for off leash areas in purgatory. As you can see on the left here, the recommen recommendations did include better identifying and going through a process that would determine where those areas would be, which is what we're doing currently in the future as sort of, you know, with with particular goals about mitigating mitigating conflict where possible. Master plans, even the natural resources master plan are to generally guide decision-m in the future and sort of prioritizing what would come before the park board. and you folks um moving forward. Um thank you. But again uh just to clarify that plan was never intended to necessarily be a permanent plan and indeed did the purgatory park master plan not recommend um perimeter location of dog parks and what you know basically the north corner and the red barn corner. Could you you know I just want to be clear on what because I think there's some misapprehension about what the Purgatory Park master plan was is and was meant to be. Understand? Yes. Uh despite it being horizontal in this particular figure, there's text on the left side here. A recommended action for short-term 1 to three years and a long-term recommendation for a longer time period. The goal here in this master plan as adopted was to critically look um if we were going to change the ordinance, we would need to better determine where those areas would go. At that point, it did identify this potential fenced in off leash area in the what is currently area five now. So, it was considered at that point adopted as we're going to look at this closer and essentially temporary. And my understanding from the purgatory park master plan that the red barn area which then wasn't part but was being considered to be folded in and I believe we have decided that we are probably going to do that that was also a recommended area in the purgatory park master plan specifically is can you confirm that? Um I don't recall saying that that area we never pointed at that particular area. There was talk about the Red Barn site being a potential for a climate change nature center and that we would study that further. Um perhaps at some place in the document said dogs could Okay, my recollection may be wrong on there, but then that's my my recollection. I'll I'll take your word and we can take a look back at it. But anyway, again the the main point being that um that that interim plan which you know basically encompasses most of the park um was only was to be a temporary one to threeyear max plan. Plus I'd add the consideration for the red barn site is it's you know user focused. It's it's adjacent to the street. There's a lot of human activity there. it could be applicable for some other highintensity use like a dog area, right? And at this point, we have no snowballs chance of getting funding to re renovate the Red Barn at this point. So, um yeah, so there's no imminent plans for developing a nation a nature center there. All right. Thank you. Other questions, council members? You know, I've I've got a few. Um um this is uh this is challenging and it's it's complex and um I I see that there you know there's there's a number of uh moving variables if you will um you know first of all I mean just to kind of simplify we have the we have figure one which shows the two um the the staff recommendation um and we have a finite number of acres there and we've talked about that a little it um as um as when this item was introduced. I mean to a certain extent it's an acre counting exercise to a certain extent um and and how much space is right. One of the questions I have is um and I don't know if you'll have the answer and it's okay if if you don't, but before the May 19th implementation of the new ordinance throughout the city, do you have any idea of how many acre off leash acres there are within the city? And you know, I mean, and and I'm not expecting that you do. I mean, I haven't counted those acres. I've counted the acres in um in Purgatory Park, but as I look at, you know, what we're trying to do here, um we we want we we as a council decided that we need to tighten up our um dog leash ordinances. And the reason for that is one um voice command is in the eye of the beholder. And um I know very few dogs and people who love their dogs who have true voice command. I mean voice um um voice command means that um you have voice command under all circumstances. Um if a squirrel runs runs by your dog and you say heal, the dog stays healed. I don't know many people or many dogs who will do that. So we had a very very problematic um uh ordinance um in terms of what does it mean? Um how do you how do you manage that? How do you enforce it? Um the other thing about enforcement is that you know how many people who have been harassed by dogs or threat felt threatened by a dog um um have ever called the police or called 911? And I'll bet it's one or two percent of the people who've been in that circumstance. And the issue is that if we're going to implement changes, we also have to say, you know what, if there's an incident that you're concerned about, you report it. Because the reality of it is if it doesn't get reported, the incident does not exist. So when when people say, "Well, boy, we don't have many problems. You know, call the police. How many dog complaints have we had in Minnetonka?" and it's a handful. It's because people may be upset. They may talk to their neighbor. They may talk to their family, but they don't call the police. And so, if we are serious about implementing rules that everyone has to abide by, we also have to do our job. And if there's a circumstance that's less than ideal, we have to provide the data to the um enforcement agency, which is our police department, um so that they have the information necessary to realistically assess whether we have a big problem or a little problem. So that's that's just one thing. But as I look as I look at what we're trying to deal with and I do see it as um significantly an an acre um counting exercise um I wanted to know how many acres are available under the current um ordinance that um that's in effect today. We don't really know the answer but it's you know it's it's hundreds of acres hundreds of acres. And so when we talk about um some of the alternatives that are in front of us, um it's clear that we're taking a lot of area away from dog owners. I mean, you know, and we're taking something away. Never popular if you're an elected official to take something away from your residents that that that feel it is a is it is a right. At the same time, I think we as a council, and council members, please correct me if if you think I'm wrong, um um you know, we really felt a need to take some action because the circumstances that we had were were pretty much untenable. So, what we have before us tonight is the park board recommendation. And I did the arithmetic on the on the um on the acres there. And if you see the the chart in front of you, I just took the midpoints of the number of acres because I don't like ranges. So I just picked the midpoints and say that's the number of acres we're dealing with. And so areas 1 through five on the map here are 108 acres in Purgatory Park available for off leash dogs under the park board recommendation. And and I I did the same thing with the um with the uh proposed off leash area at Purgatory Park. Um and the numbers came out to be let's see where is it? It's um you know I can do this arithmetic but it you know it's less than 20 acres. So you know going from one recommendation which is um which is uh 100 um 108 acres uh to um basically 20. I mean, that's that's a big reduction in acorage available for dogs. And and you know what? Dogs do need places to run run. But there's other interests, too, and other important interests. I mean, Purgatory Park is uh is a prairie in a in a city that has very little prairie and we do have real valid reclamation efforts. And as I consider what we are going to do, and I'm I mean there was a question in there, but I also think that the challenge that we're faced with is um I've been told and I've been doing this for a while, the best compromise is when nobody's happy. And and to be honest, that's my goal tonight. I want everybody to be unhappy when they leave here tonight because I think real compromise is going to be necessary. And if there is not real compromise, we're going we're not going to get to a solution. So, we have to be honest about that. Somebody people in this room are going to have to give up on something that is really important to them. And so, that's what I think we as a council um have to confront. And then the other issue is timing. You know, May 19th is not very far away. And I spoke to Mr. funk about that today. And he said, "Well, that was a that timing was agreed to by the council and it was a council imposed timetable." And that's true, but I'll tell you what, I'm going to with all due respect to my fellow council members, we are not always right. And so, I think that there are some issues in play here that we have to consider. Part of it is timing and part of it is number of acres and part of it is where are those acres going to be. That's that's kind of trying to simplify a very very complex set of circumstances. That's what we're going to have to decide. And and everyone here tonight if if there is a winner and a loser, we've failed. We need everybody to feel like, boy, I don't like where we ended up, but it's better than where we were. Because if we try and if we um come up with a solution tonight um and and don't and we also have to consider the timing aspects we we need people to be unhappy with the result because um because if we try and satisfy one group versus another then then we failed as a council. We have to be objective and I believe the park board I believe I believe staff has worked really hard to come up with something that makes sense. But this is really hard and guess what people are you know my little dog at home is perfect just so you know. I mean um and we all view our kids and our and our and our animals as being you know something that they're not and because none of them are perfect. But but as we as we deal with this we have it's very emotional. We get emotional about our family members and we view our dogs as our our family members, but people also get emotional about this city and and the hard work that's being done to preserve the the nature um and the natural areas of our city. I mean, for some people that the city and these parks are their children. So, we've got an emotional issue before us. It's challenging and we're going to have to make some tough decisions tonight. But I really think it's it kind of comes down to um acres, location, and timing to me are the is the essence of what we have to decide tonight. So, council, I don't know if you have any any other questions. I hope I didn't comment too much. Um we are going to take um a public comment and I will um kind of lay out the way that's going to work, but council, anything before we ask the public for um their thoughts and what what they would like us to know. Is there anything council members would like to share with me? Well, we're saving your comments. All right. Yes. No, that's correct. So, okay. So, it's it's quarter to 8. Um um what we're going to do is um I'm going to lay out the ground rules for the public comment. Then we're going to take a 5 to 7 minute break because um you guys can leave and go use the restroom. We have to uh we need a break to do that. So, we're going to take advantage of that. And then we will take public comment. We are going to take public comment. We're going to really ask people to limit their comments to two minutes and uh we want to hear from as many people. We've got a timer up there and up there so you know where you stand on the two minutes. We are going to do two hours of public comment and when the two hours is up, the public comment ends. So, if you really want to be heard, stand up and get in line early. And that's the other thing we're going to do. Um, we're going to have people line up because it is a big waste of time for people to um look around and say, "Are you going to comment?" "I'm not sure." And we wait when when we have time um gaps uh between people's comments. We want to hear what you have to say. So, um when we start the public comment, we're going to ask people to come forward and line up. We're going to ask you to restrict your comments to two minutes each. And I will be kind of tough on that. Um and then um when when there's nobody left in line, the public hearing will the public comment will end. If if um if um there's still a line at the end of two hours, well, at two hours, the public comment will end. So, if you really want you you really want to have us hear from you, get in line early and make your comments early. The other thing is um we've gotten dozens I want to say hundreds but maybe not hundreds but dozens of emails. Um we've read most of those but not all of them because I'll admit some came in later and are in the um in the addendum. So I'm not going to pretend that we've read every single comment but we've read most of them and and so try not to be repetitious. I know people are passionate passionate, but if somebody just made a point, you don't need to make that point. Try and make your comments to add new information so that we as a council can make a good decision. And this is a this is a tough one. Um we will not people will leave here unhappy tonight. Um, but we are doing our best to be fair, to do what is be what is best for our city and we know that this is a passionate important issue. I mean, we're talking about um things that you value, your values, and we're talking about your family members. Those are those are two good ways for a council to get in trouble. And uh we're probably doing both of them tonight. So, we're going to take a 5m minute break. We'll come back at about five at 5 minutes to 8 and then we will open uh the public comment. Thank you all for being here. All right, we've all had the opportunity to chat with our neighbors and thank you all for being here, but we're going to try not to go too late tonight. So, we'll uh we'll get things cranked up. [Applause] Um, so I would like us to come to order again and um ask everyone to be sit seated. I've got all my council members here. And um we are going to pardon me. Okay. All right. Better. So, thank you all for being here and thank you for indulging a short break. Um, we are I'm going to open the public uh comment. I I'm going to make a couple more comments. What a surprise. Um, you know, uh, we've said two minutes and, uh, we're going to hold to that. However, if you are representing a group and are the spokesperson for a group um and need a little bit more time, please indicate that and how much time you think you will need. We're not going to give anybody 15 minutes, but if you say, "Well, I'm representing a group of x number of people and my comments are going to take uh four minutes, not two." Um we'll allow that. But if you're coming up here as an individual, um it's two minutes per. Um if you're part of a group, we'll um we'll allow a little bit more time, but indicate um who you're representing if you are representing a group. So with that, um I will open the comments. I ask that you share your name and address and then um make your comments and uh welcome. So please come forward. Good evening. Uh, my name is Laura Harpistad, 14606 Carroll Drive. Um, my husband and I have lived in Minnetonka for more than 20 years. We've walked dogs off leash at Purgatory all of this time and we would like to continue. Um, we pay taxes and feel that we should be able to bring our dog to a park within the city we love and help support. We follow the rules and we have a well- behaved dog. There are more than 45 parks in mot in in sorry in Minnetonka. Purgatory is 155 acres. There's certainly room for everyone and all dogs on and off leash. And I know we were shown a graphic with surrounding towns with the size of the dog parks, which I think was informative, but shouldn't I feel be an argument towards keeping our park small with regard to the dogs? Um, I think we're lucky to have 155 acres and I think we should try to be able to use it as much as we can for for the dogs, especially off leash. Um, off leash dog should not be contained in a small fenced in area. It's not particularly fun. It can also be unsafe. Um, and it's kind of boring actually. We we have a dog that needs a lot of energy to be released. Um, and my last point would be the one thing that I like about the proposal that the park board gave was that not only did it give a lot of area for off leash, but also the the fence along the east main trail I think would eliminate a lot of the issues that people are having. The dog to dog issues and some of the dogto people issues um I I think would be eliminated. So, thank you. Thank you. Please, you know, please we we just don't applaud. We we just don't do that. If you want to applaud, go to a play. But no, no applause, no cheering here. It's we're just gonna That intimidates people. Um and people start playing to the audience. So please listen politely and if you want to speak, come up and speak, but no applause, no none of that. Welcome. Hi, I'm Jim Sacerson. Um 3984 Hunter Hill Way. I've been a member of this community for 40 years. My wife and I have um dogs. Uh we also have had a kennel for the last 30 years. We've also had over 55 champions. And we both judge both confirmation and obedience. And so we have a lot of obedience dogs. And I know exactly what you talk about, Brad, when you say you can't completely turn around and uh trust your dog on everything you do. Um, at any rate, I I enjoyed um the barking and parking uh and the balancing which you talked about, Mike, that you have to have between different parks because the middle school is not the same as purgatory. And um also I like the fact that you have a process plan for doing these things. I know with the 49 parks and over 400 acres you have uh I'm sure you you plan to individually turn around and make some rules. What I don't know and you didn't mention was what's happening on May 19th. Are you not doing this balancing? Are you then turning around and making all parks have some sort of sanction until you decide that this process works on the other parks? You know, for those of us from probably the Gidana group, which has multiple areas which I don't think you'll be able to fence in along with the island in the winter, how you gonna handle that and what's your plan? In other words, are all parks off limits now except purgatory for a while or what's going on? So, um, and I'll tell you what, we will make as we as you people comment, we will make note of the questions and we will circle back to the questions after all the public comment. We're not going to have we're not going to go back and forth. Okay, good. Thank you. Good evening. Hi, my name is Kristen Vanderine. I live at 3916 Miriam Road. Um, so I wrote down a few comments. Um, I'm a mother of two young kids, a burderer, a gardener professional who works with children and mental health, as well as an active member of the Scenic Heights BTA where our family actually helps uh maintain the gardens and the grounds there. So, right up kind of near Purgatory. Um, we also do a lot of uh help with the cleanups in Orchard Park. Uh, we also have a rescue dog, an 11-year-old border collie who still needs big runs. Um, so with that perspective in mind, I just kind of want to say there, you know, we know there are very big uh health benefits to having a dog, having the ability to have a dog. Um, from social connectedness, improved mental health, cardiovascular health benefits. Um, and that shouldn't just be to people who have a fenced in yard. That is an equity issue. If we don't have dog parks that families can bring their kids to, um, then that isn't a a community that is open to everyone. um and it doesn't promote that wonderful benefit to families. Um so yeah, I guess that's the first point. Um I also I came from Austin, Texas. Um I lived there for about a decade before coming here with my family. Um and we it's a big it's a dog friendly city, super dog friendly. I think someone had mentioned that the smaller um communities around here um or some have smaller dog parks and nothing has anything as big as purgatory. We need to look outside of Minnesota to see what other places are doing. Austin is a vibrant, fun place to live and is super dog friendly because it has bigger parks. We would go on hikes in areas where there are big off leash areas just like Purgatory. Um my sister, we moved to Adina first when we came here. There were no dog parks to go to with our dogs. Uh my sister-in-law said, "Come to Purgatory. Check out Jadana." We moved to Minnotonka. We chose Scenic Heights to be here with our family because of having young kids because I can take them. I'm not locked in Bryant Park with young kids where you can't bring young kids. You can't go to a fenced dog park with young kids. But you come to purgatory. It's our happy place. It's literally why we moved here and it's why I encourage other people to move here. But if it's gone, I don't know that I want to live here. Thanks. Great. Thank you. And and um Minnetonka is better than you, just so you know. [Music] Okay. Good evening. Good evening. Um do I have to give my actual address? I had a safety issue. So Okay. Well, um tell us what part of the city you live in. Minnetonka. next to the high school. Okay, very good. Okay. Um, my name is Jen McFarland. I am a nurse. I am a mom. We were just hearing about equity issues. I disagree with that. I feel like equity is for everybody. Um, there are tons of children that go to Purgatory Park for field trips and there are children that are afraid of dogs that have anaphylactic shock to dogs. And so if you're going to allow this, I think that an EpiPen would be necessary for all parks that have off leash dogs to help any anaphylactic shock reactions. Um you also had talked about oh my gosh in the two minutes um as far as not having a fenced in area. Um my question to you is gardener snakes and all snakes are protected in Minnesota per the Minnesota DNR. Snakes are considered protected wild animals. Um, it is illegal to interact with threatened species in Minnesota beyond taking a picture. So, are you able to ensure that the dogs in these off leash dogs area are not going to be endangering any snakes that are considered protected. Um, so that is another thing to consider. And then my last thing, as I heard the giggles in the background, um it just takes one moment to leash a dog or have them in a fenced area. It is a minimum of 12 steps when a person is bit by a dog. um they have to seek medical help, get a clean bandage, report to authorities, monitor for infection, get a tetanus booster, rabies vaccination, antibiotics, wound um repair, police, and legal counsel. And so most children who are bit by dogs are between the ages of one and five, off leash dogs. They're bit in the face. This is my last thing. There is significant damage to the face which is the area most commonly affected in children who sustain dog bites may require specialized skills of a specialist who can reconstruct the complex functional and aesthetic components of the affected anatomy. That means takes 26 plastic surgeries to put their faces together. Good evening. Hello. My name is Eric Morer and I live at 5554 in Nantucket Place. Uh good evening, mayor and members of city council. In the May 1st, 2024 parkboard minutes, Mr. Ingram was recorded as stating that quote, "It's hard for him to have a master plan that leaves any ambiguity about our position about the importance of public safety." If that's the case, then why did the park board just ignore the off leash dog strategy from Manka Parks, deem roughly 90% of Purgatory Park as a dedicated off leash area, and provide no clarity on how this addresses the importance of public safety. There's no discussion of how the areas will be designated, no new timeline for any kind of offense, and no regard for the CSOS trying to enforce the new ordinance because the designated areas will be as vague as they were before. I'm also here to because of a recent post on Facebook that I'll get to in a moment. My wife had a terrible interaction with an off leash dog in February of 2024, which she did report to the police. After that, I decided to get a GoPro camera to document interactions as needed. I've been wearing it ever since then, and my wife has be been wearing it for the last few weeks. Recently, the following post was brought to my attention. Quote, "Words of caution, folks. I want to make everyone aware of a couple of things. One, police patrols are stepping up in the park last few days. Not only in the parking lot, but by the bridge as well. You don't need a $130 ticket, and our cause can be hurt by there being a bunch of off leash incident citations where we shouldn't be. Please be vigilant and help others understand. Two, we also have reports of anti-off leash people on the north and east side path between the lot and the bridge that seem to be looking for bad off leash behavior and potentially even encouraging that behavior. It appears that these people may be trying to record these events on camera. It's important though our folks to be very mindful of this situation especially in the coming days. A well choreographed video could damage all the progress we have made. Let me see let me know if you do see that behavior. Again, please be vigilant. End quote. Um regarding number one, if there are supposedly no problems, why would there be a bunch of incidents that warrant tickets? Regarding number two, I'm not sure if this post is referring to me as one of these people, but I can not read. I can of equivalently tell you that I'm not choreographing nor encouraging anything. I'm walking my dog and documenting as I see fit. If there are no problems, then I have nothing to record. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Good evening. Evening. Uh my name is Ben Fable. I live at 15017 Cherry Lane in Minnetonka. Um couple of things and then I have a couple of questions to circle back for at the end. Um, one, uh, I have yet to see with my own eyes a quote unquote negative action with a dog at a dog park. I don't know what constitutes that. I assume that you have some police report somewhere about people who've been bitten by dogs at Purgatory Park. I have yet to see anybody who was bitten or has filed a police report being bitten talking at one of these instances. and I've been here. This is not my fourth meeting on this topic. Yet to see anybody. Maybe you guys have that info, maybe you don't. I don't know. Um the second thing is um there is a big difference between what we're proposing up here on these two things. Um taking away hundreds of acres that people have when the park board has put forth a proposal to have that included. That's a tough pill to swallow for people who feel passionately about this. And I caution you as elective representatives to remember that. Uh third thing is uh any paid dog park that I've ever been to has been a three rivers park uh where you also need to pay for every other service that you need to do there. So if we're going to start making dog people pay for every service, are we going to make everybody else pay for that service as well? My last two questions are this. uh increased patrols in the parks. Does that include the community service pickup truck rolling down pathways in the park as hap as has happened at Purgatory? If you want to talk about public safety, I would caution you against driving pickup trucks down a path where children, pets, and elderly people are walking. Um that's really all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening. James Hogensson. I live at 4748 Gaywood Drive. I'm a homeowner. I've lived there for over 25 years. And one of the reasons that I live here is because of Purgatory Park. It makes a special community. And yes, I did live in Edina and grew up there. So did my wife. I still mar I still married her. I I might even know her. But uh yeah, it makes it special for us. I've been a dog dog dog owner my entire life and for the last 25 years we've enjoyed Purgatory Park and since I'm retired I can choose to live anywhere I want and Purgatory Park plays an important part in that. So please keep that area available to us and if you're not able to do that have other parks that we can use for off leash. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Hi I'm Tom Jones. I live at 16607 Helm Drive about a mile away from Purgatory Park. I've lived here for about 40 years. I typically walk at that park at least twice a week, sometimes more often. I uh all the seasons I've never encountered a problem with a dog at that park. The dogs have all either been very friendly or not interested in me at all. And the people I've met out there have also been a lot of times because of my interaction with their dogs, I've enjoyed their meeting with them. [Music] Uh how much would it decrease the usage to make it no longer available to off leash? Would there be a significant number of people who would no longer use the park? And that park is for the public, the general public. Uh earlier the it was said that it was untenable. There were a handful of reports. I don't know how many reports there have been of incidents, but I'm not aware of any. Uh and a handful doesn't sound like a large amount. If there is fencing that's going to be put in, I'd appreciate it if it would be as unobtrusive as possible. I I personally don't have a dog. I enjoy just walking at the park and I enjoy seeing the uh nature around me and I'd rather not have bright chain link fence in my view. Thank you very much. Thank you. Good evening. Thank you. Uh my name is Kathleen Nelson. I live at 4717 Forest Circle. Um, just to help people visualize where that is. We're right down the street from Tower Hill Park. Just wondering if anybody uh frequents that park at all because that's that's what we have in my part of the city. So, we use Jadana, we use Purgatory. Um, and uh, I really think that um, there was one member of the park board, I was at that meeting who said that he thought that all residents of Minnetonka should be able to access all parts of every park and they should not have to worry about encountering an unleashed dog. So basically, one member of the park board is saying there should not be unleashed dog parks in the city. I would think if we opened a brand new one, he'd complain about that. Um, and I just have a question about the how things work because I was at the park board meeting when they got the information from the city employees and it seemed like the two sides had no idea what the other one was doing. And what the park board settled with um was very different from what the employees here had suggested. And I just don't know which voice is more important to you as a city council. I'll end it there. Thank you. Good evening. Hi. Um before you start the timer, there's four of us that are going to speak sequentially on the same threat and uh so eight minutes total. I'm going to speak at the beginning and the end of the four of us if that's okay. Very good. Thank you for thanks for identifying that. Okay. And we also have a handout. So when we say next page, all right, flip through the next page. Thank you. Uh, and I just as a Sorry. Are these different than what we've been presented? Are these any different than what have been presented by staff in the staff slides? Yeah, this is this is Yes. Oh, okay. Is do you have this digitally so audience can see? I do. Yeah, I have. Can we can we see that? Yeah. Okay. Just Okay, we we we can just All right, here we go. Thanks, Julie. I just thought it would be helpful. Thanks. Also, I just want to state that um our statements represent a number of people, but not any organization. Very good. Individual residents. Uh I will start Heather Holm. I'm not going to give out my address. Um and I am a Minnotonka resident. So, our statement reflects and represents Minnetonka residents who are current and former dog owners, dog lovers, and non-dog owners who recognize that off leash areas are a valued community amenity. We also value nature, environmental sustainability, and equal access to our parks highquality natural resources. We are nature lovers, birders, hikers, photographers, wildlife observers, and people who enjoy experiencing awe inspiring views while walking, running, or biking in the park. We also acknowledge the values of the 64% of Purgatory Park master plan survey respondents who walk the park, the 16% who bike, 15% who bird watch, and the 47% of people that are discouraged from visiting the park because of the presence of off leash dogs. When determining where an off leash area is located, we request that you consider the stated values of the city and all its residents and seek a solution that reflects community values and the values outlined in the strategic plan. According to the 1996 NRMP, so the one before the present one, between 1996 and 2002, the city invested $632,000 or in today's dollars, $1.2 million in the restoration of Purgatory Park. The subsequent 20 plus years added additional investments. And most recently, we've had the park master planning and resurgence of more investments in the restoration of the park. Since 2019, volunteers have contributed over 1,800 hours or the inind dollar equivalent of about $59,000. Good evening. Hi, thanks for allowing me to speak. Gerald Gerson 1311, April Lane, Minnetonka. I'll pick up where Heather left off. Given this investment, we have become increasingly concerned about the diminishing ecological integrity of the restored prairie in the middle of Purgatory Park, a unique, rare, and highquality natural resources resource, one of a handful of fragments across the park system identified in the natural resources master plan. That's the red areas on the map of the guide that you have. We respectively request that the new off leash area avoid this rare and unique ecosystem to prevent further degradation and loss of biodiversity particularly when many suitable and equivalent alternatives exist. Moreover, we believe that the prairie should not be fragmented by a single and incompatible use. All plant diversity in a prairie occurs in the vegetation on the ground whereas in a woodland most of the plant diversity occurs at the tree level. Intensive use and trampling of a prairie inherently results in the loss of plant diversity directly implant impacting the organisms that rely on this rare ecosystem. We are recommending an alternative solution that does not negatively impact the prairie. Prairie is an exceedingly rare ecosystem in the state of Minnesota. Less than 1% of original prairie remains. The purgatory park prairie is a sand prairie which is even rarer in Minnesota. Sand prairie supports some of the rarest plants, animals, and pollinators. The Purgatory Park Prairie supports a federally endangered rusty patch bumblebee and seven additional native bee species that are at risk. In addition to the restored prairie in the middle of the park, Purgatory Park hosts the only remnant prairie in the city. When these parcels are restored and thereby connected with the scenic school for savannah restoration, it creates the largest prairie or grassland habitat in Minnitonka. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening, um, mayor and council. I'm Angela Mura. I live at 5554 Nantucket Place. The prairie is not a good fit for an off leash dog park because it places the off leash area in known conflict zones and fails to provide adequate separation from other park uses. It also displaces other park visitors from enjoying this valuable community resource. It does not align with N natural resource master plan recommendations which were one to return the prairie to on leash and create an off leash dog area in the north section of the park in an area of low ecological quality and two to connect the grassland areas including the school forest eastern boundary prairie remnant and restored prairie in order to create a diverse core in the middle of the park. It abandons the Purgatory Park master plan recommendation which was to quote protect and reinforce the designation as a nature preserve. And lastly, it was the area with the most disagreement among working group members. Next page, we are proposing an alternative solution in the area between the Red Barn and Fire Station. This alternative site line aligns with the purgatory park master plan because it avoids identified conflict areas by sending user groups in separate directions from the parking lot. It will avoid wetlands and water bodies. It reinforces that park preserve designation by not disrupting scenic views, especially if there becomes a need for hard fencing. And lastly, it uh would um not disturb the quality of the natural resources due to the fact that the natural resources is in the tree canopy, not on the ground, and therefore it would not negatively impact the ecological quality. Next page, [Applause] Cindy Iden, 16824 Excelsier Boulevard. Um, also the proposed alternative site aligns with the working group criteria because it provides adequate parking, nearby restrooms and water, separation from other park uses at least five acres and that would be expanded as we moved into area five. Um, and it is a site with lower bioder diversity quality which is was already stated. It would provide at least one mile of trail and serves multiple user groups and is accessible for staff maintenance. Next, next page. In addition, this site is one of two areas in Purgatory Park reaching agreement by working group members. It avoids further degradation of the Purgatory Prairie and allows for equal access to the prairie. It provides a sustainable solution for gathering and social play on the lawn and it's adequately sized to service to serve multiple user groups from trail walking, dog social play, and ball tossing. Last lastly, this alternative site provides shade in the summer, beautiful wooded walking trails and roll in and rolling topography and it has a unique destination with the troll with the historic trolley bed and the red barn sites. It balances the preservation of na natural resources while still providing desired recre recreational amenities. We believe this alternative solution reflects the stated values of the city and all of its residents. It improves public safety and balances the preservation of natural resources while providing desired recreational amenities. We ask that you consider a delay in the start date so staff can adequately prepare this site and um not cause the the people with dogs to not have their their ability to have their dogs off leash. We respectfully ask that you um with the two sites together it would be 5 to 7 acres total of uh 14 to 17 acres. And then if you also added site two, there would be really quite a reasonable amount of of uh off leash area. We respectfully ask that you recommend this win-win proposal for our community. Thank you for your time and your consideration. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening, mayor and council members. Diana Houston, 12201 Minnetonka Boulevard. And so thank you for the opportunity to speak. I know a lot of people have already expressed a number of concerns regarding safety and preservation of natural resources. I'm addressing a different aspect of this project which has been touched a bit on the comments you have made tonight. Uh through the work group they reached an agreement on a couple of sites already mentioned at Purgatory Park. The recommendation by the park board however submitted as you know is contrary to any agreed upon locations and solutions by the work group. In doing so it just looks like the question is why was this group invited to find common ground and then have common ground because they did have that at their working group on a couple of sites. They had it literally literally and figuratively. Yet it was completely dismissed. During this time of divisiveness at a broader level, it's important to recognize, honor, and respect the agreed upon common ground of the work group, which is not outside the realm of implementation, but it'll take a little work. It's important that an elected body and leaders of our community um as the council to build cooperiveness and collaboration to find that common ground. In your remarks tonight, I know you're reaching for that. You want to strive for that and we hope and help you support that compromise mentioned a couple of times by Mr. Funk, by members of the council, has much value. It recognizes everyone gives a bit, everyone gains a bit. And then I respectfully ask that as you reach a decision, you know, by selecting the common ground areas that were identified by the work group and again appreciate the time to speak tonight. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Welcome. Good evening. Hi, I'm Jennifer Johnson. I live on uh Kingswood Terrace in Minnotonka and I've lived here for 25 years. Um, I agree with everyone here that we are lucky to have many wonderful parks in our city and the opportunity to use them the way that we choose and that we uh care most about. The proposal that we are discussing seeks to greatly restrict the park usage of thousands of dog owners in the city. Um, I I would go back a couple of steps and say it would be helpful to know how many people want the off leash area to remain and how many do not. We've seen no data collected as actual numbers of people or of numbers of visits. We have had a petition that was signed by more than 700 people uh saying that Purgatory's off leash area should stay the same or nearly the same. So, I know there are at least that many people on this side of the issue. Um and the dog owners that I meet up with are in the park many times a week, including my family who go to the off leash area twice a day every single day. Um that's a lot of visits if you add that all up. And um I don't think we have any idea how how many visits there are to the park as it is right now. There's like you said there's how many acres 100 acres um how can we adequately gauge what would be an appropriate reduction? What would be like if we go from 100 to 20 that how are all those visits that we are currently able to make? How how is it even possible um that we could do that? I think number one um there's going to be if there's a smaller area, it's going to be more crowded. That's going to lead to physical degradation of the of the sites that are chosen. Um and it will quickly lead to um more negative interactions because quarters are too close. um limiting the space while having a high number of visits visits and visitors per day seems counterintuitive and it seems less safe and also not good for the environment to have such a big um restriction. And the only other thing I wanted to mention was as the mayor has already said the timing issue is really really critical. We all have routines and plans and we need exercise every day and we just don't want everything to suddenly change radically um in two weeks from now. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Johnson. Please do not do that. I'm Derek Mitchell and I represent a group AF. So, might take a little more than two minutes. Um, sold my house. What group do you represent? A fantastic experience. So, um, yeah, I sold my house, moved to Purgatory Park. I've gone there 466 times now. No instances. Don't know where this is happening. I document every day I'm there. No incident. I got babies, everybody. So, when I'm here, I'm so confused. Unbelievably confused. And I'm scared of my life now. They could have cops on the ground like emotionally. I was beat up by what is that? An endminute talk of police now. You want them to run off this park? That's insane. I can't walk. This park is my sanctuary. My dogs are my anxiety animals. I've never like we don't have bad instances here and you guys are seeing all this. Like I know we're trying our best, but why don't we make a spot for the comments? Sorry. I've just listened to them. Sorry. Put Why don't we make a spot for the people that claim that they're scared of the lice for dogs? Put them in four or five maybe over here. I'm with my dogs every day. We have no interactions. The prairie is great. Nobody cares to play in the prairie once the grass gets this tall. We're not talking about that, are we? These the park adapts and changes so much. How can we destroy it? You can't. There's areas where I'll never be able to walk here in about a month or two, couple weeks. I live it. I need this for my body, my sanctuary, my seness. And you guys just sit up here and go, "Oh, over here. We can't do this. We can't do that." You're talking about bees. I'm allergic to bees. And I go to the park. If I get stung, I can die. I go there every day. Not scared to die. Like, so I just cannot understand how this incident is so hard. Like literally five, maybe four. Put people over there without dogs. Then they have their great area. Maybe get beepers. Right. If I go like this, makes everybody aware. I've never heard of this, but you have a beeper. My dogs come on point. No instance. Makes everybody else aware. I use this park. Do you guys use this park? Everything I hear, I don't hear people talk about using the park. You guys talk about a park. You said you sit on a bench and you don't want the fence there. I've sat on the benches and documented the There's a lot I think I know what they want to talk about. There's a lot of areas. It's not even going to impede it. Why aren't we putting out signs that have already said, right, that maybe to warn people? When I first moved here, I had no idea these issues were even happening. I was told it was a great place and then now there's no signage. Now we might put up signs. Why don't we put up signs now and then see what happens to warn people. How can you how can you expect someone not to know there's a dog off leash? There's no sign. Right? So what I'm saying is I just can't understand this like at all. And you want to put police and you want these people who are sitting there recording already trying to get people in trouble now recording having the power to a 911 hangup call cuz that's what happened to me. I was a DD on a 911 hangup call. Nobody knows what happens, but Minota police can laugh at me and go, "He'll bleed out. I have to have surgery. They cut my leg in half pretty much. It sucks. I used to be fat. Now I'm here. This park was my sanctuary. I gave up my life, my house, my everything for it. Now I'm listening to a bunch of biats almost. Like no one's damaging the park. The dogs are fine. Like I said, I've never heard of a dog complain. All I hear is people. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. And last but not least, if someone gets attacked and hurt, who's liable here? You're acting like this police aren't. I'll send you the paperwork, mayor. You'd be embarrassed to the police department straight up. Like, who's going to be there? Who's who's going to save us? Because last time I checked, they can say my body camera doesn't work. You literally give the people that are going around being crazy. Thank Thank you for your comments. Not least, these people are intoxicated at the park. We're only talking about that. They're complaining about dogs. I'm sober. It's pretty easy to see them up there three times a day. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening, mayor, city council members. My name is Shannon Riley. I'm a 17-year Minnotonka resident. I've enjoyed Purgatory Park as a non-dog owner and also as a dog owner. I must note if it wasn't for dog owners, Purgatory Park would hardly be utilized. And as a non-dog owner, I never felt threatened or infringed upon by dogs or their owners. Not each and every Mitaka park can be all things to all residents. We have some parks with playgrounds, tennis courts, etc. And now we even have uh Lone Lake Park as a designated mountain biking park. And this is great. The city needs to look at its park system globally. Recognizing that not each and every park can be all things to all residents. And it makes sense to design designate certain parks for certain activities. And I'm asking the city council and mayor to designate uh the area shown on the red and green map in accordance um with the park board. Um let's see here. Um and I also agree with signage. I think that could solve a lot of problems. And also I do believe that the land that was donated by the city was designated to be off leash. Uh I talked to a real estate attorney about this. Um he indicated that just because the city wasn't aware of such a covenant doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Uh he said it's possible that that covenant was misfiled or not recorded at the time. I'm still intending to look into that more. Um also I want to note that area by the um the I guess the red barn and the fire department. It's basically inaccessible. I have severe arthritis in both hips and there's no way I can navigate which essentially is a wooded cliff. Um, also I did um request a freedom of information request on March 6 of 2023 and the city only partially complied with that. Um, I had asked for prior notes concerning dogs in Minnetonka. Um and also I wanted to know um the amount that was spent um on consultants concerning Minnotonka Parks. So I would like that. Thank you for your comments. Good evening. Good evening Mayor Council. Uh my name is Greg Johnson. Uh 18810 Kingswood Terrace. Uh I'm a 25-y year resident. Uh 25 year two decade user of Purgatory Park with uh probably five dogs over the years. Love the place. I'm a founding member of PAUSE. Uh great group. It's done a lot of great work out there. So I would like just a short amount of time extra if I could. Uh I was also a member of the working group. I found my time on that enjoyable. I learned a lot. Matt, you did a good job with what you had to work with. Uh so congrats to him. Uh so a couple items I do want to uh maybe shine a little bit different light my own opinion on the prairie and uh maybe the views aren't doing the disastrous harm that has been shared. We've had a many hard long hot droughty summers. Uh plants and grass have become gray browned dead uh same as many people's front yards. Um, uh, the creeks that flow through Purgatory dried up several times and, uh, the dogs didn't do that either. It's pretty clear that last summer with May and June with the heavy rains that we got, if you guys walked through the park last summer, it was beautiful. The grass was tall, lush, and uh people that were walking dogs through that park could barely get through the tunnels of the prairie grass, and it was beautiful, and we're respectful of the prairie grass, but uh we're not doing the immeasurable harm uh that's claimed. Um moving past this, I'd like to share uh my own belief. The conservative estimates that 354% of Minnotonkas like the rest of the United States, 35 to 40% of the population has a dog in their household. um um several thousand families then in Minnetonka then could be impacted by what we do here tonight. Uh prior to the ordinance that was passed in January, a family was able to be off leash with their pet in dozens of natural areas across the city and that kind of reiterates a little bit what you were saying, Mayor. Um thousands of families have already been impacted by the reduction in where they can enjoy a park off leash with their dog. Uh since that ordinance has passed and as of May 19th there will be one location in the entire city of Minnotonka uh where a person can enjoy walking with their dog and there's only one place where a person can throw a ball or a frisbee outside of their own backyard and that's in Purgatory Park. I urge the council to not restrict the current off lease space in Purgatory at least not drastically. It's too much. Uh we've got thousands and thousands of families impacted once and if possible the master plan could be recommended and put forward. The boundaries could be established with strong fencing, barriers on the eastern path, new clear signage, and routine enforcement. It will make a huge improvement in everything going on there, eliminating negative interactions between residents and safety. Finally, the pause team very much wants to be part of the solution that works for all the park users. Uh we're hopeful that our team and our large membership will be able to partner with this uh council and the mayor uh and the city to help make per make Purgatory a uh great place for all users well into the future. Thank you very much, council. Thank you for your comments. Thank you for your comments. Well, appreciate that. Good evening. Oh, my name is Ed Wans. uh 6016 Pinewood Lane. We have a little technicality. Thank you. Um but uh what I'm going to talk about is in a PDF that I've sent all to you. The first thing I want to say is this. This is a DNR uh map showing vegetation. Uh this is also reflected in the master plan for natural resources. And you will notice there is none of this that shows prairie, which and I've been concerned I've been concerned that some of these designations kind of bother me because as I go through the park, it just really doesn't correspond to what I what I did. So what I ended up doing is getting aerial photographs of the park. And what's most interesting, the the area, this is 1947, the area that is most pristine is that area just south of the creek. And I think the park board got it right when they said that should be off leash. But it's also an indication of this is what the park used to look like. So if we were to get into reconstruction, if we're going to talk about reconstruction of the park, this is the area that we should look to. And as we look over time, this this is the south area of the park, south of the creek. Um this is farmland. And then in uh 1990, but as time goes on, as time goes on, these areas are filled in. And that's this is not buckthornne. When my wife and I went through and did a catalog of the trees, these these trees in this area are similar to here. So what that tells you is this area will naturally go back to that wooded area. So let's So what I want to do is talk about what's been going on in the area that we're talking about in area one. In 1947, this was converted farmland. And you could see right along the right along the border lines, that's where the trees abruptly end. And it's very clear in uh 47 and 35 where this is actually all been farmed. Okay. In 1970 uh in the 70s, this is basic. This is where it looks like a prairie. But it's really disrupted farmland. That's really what we're talking about here. As time goes on, what you see in this area, this farmland now becomes repopulated. So the nature is repopulating what was naturally there. Um and this the same thing here. So when we talk about So I just wanted to say um this picture from page 23 of the master plan for Purgatory Park shows this area of the park. These trees have all been removed. And I have to wonder why in the world are we removing trees? There's never been a dog owner who has come into this park with a chainsaw. So, I'm questioning these these designations and it does matter because that's what we're talking about, right? Thank you. Thank you. And we did receive your presentation. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening. Uh my name is Chris Kapishki, 4528 Saddlewood Drive. Um, and I too am a me a founding member of Minnetonka Paws for Parks and our mission is to really work with the city to maintain as many off leash areas that we can. And I think what's really important is that um, yes, there's needs to be compromised, but work with us on the compromise. I feel like there's been a lot about restoration, which is really important. We all believe that. I've been walking at the park for 10 years with my dogs, and I value it greatly. Um, I think I also sent you the information about the petition. I created the petition. Um, over the weekend we talked to hundreds of people that really, really care for Purgatory Park, not just to have their dogs off leash, but it's been said it's mental and physical well-being. I walk in an average 2 miles a day. And so, and that's really important to kind of put people in a corner. Um, you're putting more dogs. So, those 700 people that signed that petition right now, as of May 19th, we are going to really lose a dramatic amount of space with the city staff plan. And so I I'm worried that we would have more negative dog interactions because containing dogs into an area is there's more resource guarding. There are more in you know conflicts between dogs. There's a lot of not more disease. So we just want to make sure that we're thinking about this the right way and you know please work with um Minnitanka Paws for Parks. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Hi uh Kevin and Jane Stucy 5903 Bill Circle Minnotonka. Uh nice to speak with you, mayor and council members. Um so we're dog people. Um we have been for a long time. Uh we live uh adjacent to the park. Um and with all truth, we um my wife has raised service dogs for years and we don't take our dogs in the park because of the off leash dogs. It's too risky to do that. We've had them attacked on multiple times in our own yard. in our own yard. Our own yard. Um, so we really don't utilize the park much because of the off leash dogs. Um, and we that puts us in the 47% that don't or maybe wouldn't because and um I hear a lot of uh passion up here about um this is my life going for these walks and stuff. What's the difference if your dog's on a leash? It's just you're still getting the exercise. It's still beautiful. You don't have to agree with me, but it's the truth. Sure it is. And u we're not Excuse me. We're not debating things here. Yeah, we're not. These gentle these people get to speak. If you want to come up speak, but no comments from the audience, please. Yeah. And I would also add um that yeah, we walk our dogs on the street because it's safer um to do that. And we have had many uh issues with loose dogs coming through our yard. they continue to do so. Um, I would estimate 30% of dogs that we observe are nowhere near their owners. They have no idea where they're defecating. We live where we can see quite a ways. Um, we've had negative interactions with multiple people and their dogs when they're when we come and say something to them because their dogs are in our yard. Um, I was attacked cutting a tree in my own yard with a loose dog. Yes, he was. Um, one of our neighbors has been bit twice running in the park. Um, I'm for dogs, but we love dogs. I live for dogs. The other thing I wanted to add is this map you have here that the park board came up with. One of the things I heard you speak of is being concerned about boundaries to properties. And I it looks like all that's been removed on that map to me. I don't know why that's not considered. We would actually be quite happy if there's an area the dogs can be. They're not in our yard. We don't have to run into them if we walk into the park behind the house all the time. Um, that's really what we had to say. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Appreciate your comments. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening. Curtis Henry, 1901, Vernon Drive, Minnetonka, Minnesota 5535. I've been using Purgatory Park for approximately 30 years now. As a disabled veteran, it keeps me out of the hospital. You know, I need these people that are in this room here. We are community at Purgatory Park. It's not just a park. It's where we gather. There's a lot of misconceptions on how the park is used. One thing people think that people walk through that tunnel of buckthornne from the parking lot and and gather at that bench. No, we gather at the bench, form into groups, three, four guys, women with our dogs, then we walk. And my average walk per day is between two to two and a half miles. And I'm sure my dog is doing five to 10. Um, I asked the park board to adopt the master plan as was um adopted by the council in 2024 and passed on by the park board. And as for the prairie, that is a farm field that has been seated over in prairie grass and wild flowers. If we want to bring it back to before white settlers showed up in Minnetonka, we would put it back to a maple basswood forest like it should be. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening, council. Um, I'm Dr. Dennis Yuckers. I live at 3648 Hazelmore Place in Minnetonka. It's good to see your faces again. Um, my wife and I moved here 12 years ago. Um, one of the reasons was because of you had so many amenities and one is was your parks and trail system. So when I got here in that I jumped in right away and volunteered the best way I could post plan, natural resources management plan, energy ed plan, sustainability plan. And why did I do that? I spent 33 years working for the state of Wisconsin. the DNR and the College of Natural Resources doing natural resources management and education. I figured I could offer my services to that. I've worked with Matt for years on all these efforts. I'm not you've seen all my information act, but I'm going to make a I'm going to go back to a few points. It's really difficult coming up here sometimes and listening to people talk about scientific data and information. If you go back through all the maps, presettlement and that remember I'm a scientist. I've got a PhD in ecology, Minnotonka was primarily oak savannah, which is a type of prairie and wetlands. Now, someone says, "Well, they're just planting prairie seeds out there." Well, it was farmland. We cut down the whole thing before to make it farms. That purgatory a little bit was big woods, but not. It was oak savannah. It's a prairie. My concern is 100 acres, 120 acres. That's the size of about 87 football fields. I don't think we need 87 football fields for off leash dogs. But I'm just going to go back to your point that you stated in the beginning, and I stated that a year ago when this process started, and I shared with you materials from over in Australia how they dealt with this issue. It's a comprehensive issue. It's not a one park by one park deal. You said acres, location, and timing. Right now, we should be planning and looking at all those other parks. I know Matt wants to be concerned about park plans and that, but we need to sit down and look at the city as a whole and say, "Yeah, this would be the best place for an off leash area because it's naturalized in that." Well, then that goes into the next plan that's developed for that area. And the last thing I'd want to do is I hear rights. We all have rights. Yeah, we do. But you know what? We also have privileges. And we have privileges in the city of Minnotonka. However, privileges require responsibilities. And I think that's what we have to be think about. Thank you, Dr. Yers. Good evening. Hi. Um, my name is Karen Schuler Hansen and I live at um, 17001 Sidel Road. I've lived there for 35 years. Our family have used Pertigoratory Park primarily in the back south area for off leash walks for 35 years. I'm also a founding board member of Pause for Parks. Uh, recently we're at the north entrance to remind people to follow the rules and leash up when on maintain trails. I would say 80% of the people in my hour shift were off leash dog walkers on two hours on a Saturday. We've also hosted several dog poop pickup events. I'm also a nature lover. We make honey, which we call Freedom Creek honey because nobody wants to be in purgatory, right? We also um have bees in our backyard. I'm an avid gardener, hiker, enjoy all the wildlife that we are privileged to view from from our backyard. But I'm going to talk on a more personal level as I'm saddened to see how divisive things not only in our nation are but in this particular situation. I believe the original survey was extremely small. I don't feel it was representative. I think that survey would look completely different if we did it now. I want you to know that I always leash my dogs whenever crossing trails. I do this even if there's no one around and I remind other park users to do the same. And some people get pissed at me for telling to do that and I still tell them. I want to keep our privileges. I've never seen any dog to people bad interactions. I'm not saying that they haven't happened. I I I don't think people are making this up, but I believe that most of it is on the east side where there's it's so close to the trail. I sent a picture to the park board of a fence that I thought looked really nice and it was low, see-through, people could look through it. I know people come to the park that don't have dogs, but they like to see the dogs. Um, I think if we had more signage of our existing rules and enforcement, we'd be in a lot different situation. I've heard from a number of people that things are different since we, our group, and other people are encouraging people to follow the rules. Am I already over time? Oh my gosh. I have a bench on the top and I would hate it to be um fenced in. So, I'd have to go through a gate to visit the bench that my son has. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Hansen. Good evening. Good evening, mayor and council members. Thank you for letting us all speak. Lots of good thoughts on both sides. I I appreciate it. I really am up wanting to preserve more than the unleash. So now you know where I stand. And your name is I'm sorry, Jill Banley, 5209 Clear Spring Drive. So, we raised five children and about 37 years ago, the park was just a very natural park. It was not there weren't even paths through it and around it. And what happened is a neighbor and I decided when we found out it might become a golf course, we said, "Oh, this is really sad." So, we went about to save it. Now, there's a little history that I think people should know because back then, I believe this the the the mayor or the I mean, I'm sorry, the council member and the Minnetonka mindset was let's preserve this beautiful, priceless little treasure, right? It's really a magnificent place. We also had a dog. So, um we did a lot of stuff. We had Ottoman walk through there. We made the sailor. We we really did research and there's lots of neat things that live there and grow there. Um ground nesters can't be trampled. You know, birds, maybe our favorite friends, the deer, but we know that these things do get trampled by humans and dogs. My thought was to maybe go ahead. That clock is really nervous. Can I talk really quick? Um, I think that if I could just condense what I was trying to say is I like the idea of compromise. I think people are going to go away happy, some sad or both. And I really appreciate that. And I really also want to say I think with enough dog parks coming into Minnetonka or the ones that are surrounding us in other, you know, locations would be a lot of areas for dogs can run unleashed. Now, I like the idea of it being on the barn side, the unleashed park, and I would really appreciate I appreciate all the thoughts of people who have made a lot of time made spent time researching what's really there and what could be devastated by, you know, a lot of area for unleashed dog. So, I thank you and I, this is my third time up in front of the council people over 37 years and I thank Thank you. Thank you. Have a good night. You too. Good evening. How are you? Good evening. Good. How are you? Good, thanks. Thank you, Mayor Council. Um, my name is Thomas Wesling. I live at 3916 Miriam Road. I'm an environmental engineer and a father of two children. Uh, a lot of the arguments being made about the negative impact um of dogs on the ecosystem, uh, I can't quite see how they get, um, relieved if the dogs are required to be on 20 foot leashes instead. The ecosystem everywhere in Minnotonka and the area is being bombarded by invasive species like buckthornne, creeping bellflower, and all the herbicides and pesticides that the majority of people use in their yards. Prohibiting dogs from being off leash won't remove these significant threats to the wetlands, but it will exclude thousands of families from enjoying the natural beauty of the park. If we want to maintain the unique wetlands, we should be working harder to recruit community involvement uh and not ex but and not by excluding those who can utilize the resource. A suitable uh alternative clearly does not exist. A fenced in area encourages dog owners who don't uh train their dogs. um in my experience and would really prohibit families like mine with young kids from attending. Uh if we want to draw young families to Minnotonka, we need to provide unique spaces like this and not eliminate them. Uh my wife was up here earlier. We we didn't move from Austin, Texas um to Minnetonka so that we'd have small fenced in spaces. Uh once you take away access to natural space, it becomes impossible to get it back. So, please don't take this incredibly unique natural uh space to those of us who want to enjoy the parks with our dogs. Uh I appreciate the opportunity to speak tonight. Thank you for your comments. Good evening. Welcome. Hi, Suzanne Williams, 4840 Gaywood Drive. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. And thank you, Matt, for all the hard work you've done. Um, I think my the end of my story is going to be the park board and Matt have spent a lot of time working on this and I feel like they know this as well as anyone. So, I would request that you pass the Purgatory Park master plan. Um, but I'm going to read my thing I wrote. Preserving the spirit of the park while downsizing the off leash nature area is a step backward. Turning the existing off leash nature park into a much smaller fenced in area would not only diminish the quality of life for dogs and their owners, but it would also undermine the unique community space that this park has become. Um, unlike typical dog parks, this nature area provides dogs with a chance to explore diverse, enriching environment, something a small fenced in plot simply cannot replicate. Dogs are animals that thrive on movement, stimulation, and variety. Restricting them to a limited artificial space deprivives them of the mental and physical benefits that a true nature experience offers. This park isn't just for dogs. It's a place where people from all walks of life gather, connect, and build relationships, often sparked by the simple act of walking their dogs. Reducing the size and changing the nature of the space risks eroding the sense of community. A small fenced area encourages short visits and limits meaningful human interaction. Ironically, a large open area can be safer than a confined one. In a crowded fence space, dogs are more likely to feel stressed, territorial, or overstimulated, increasing the chances of conflict. In a sprawling natural environment, dogs have room to deescalate, avoid confrontation, and regulate their own energy levels. Accessibility and inclusion. Many people, especially those with a large or high energy dogs, mobility issues, or mental health concerns, rely on this park as a peaceful, low pressure way to exercise and enjoy nature. Fencing in a small area, and removing the open access could make the park feel less inviting. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Good evening. Hey, good evening. Thanks for listening. I'm John Roach, 5110 Kimberly Road. I've been Minnetonka resident 39 years. been walking my two different dogs at the park over the last 20 years and I can honestly say I've never seen a bad interaction between dogs or between dogs and people or anything. So, I'm I'm sure they happen, they just are very infrequent. Um, I just have a a question or statement regarding the goal to reduce the impact on the high quality prairie areas. It's not the dogs that do that, it's people walking through there and walking through the park. So, is the goal to reduce the amount of people that use the park so we can keep these pristine areas? It doesn't really seem like that should be the goal of any park is to reduce the number of people that use it. So, that was another statement. Um, regarding the master plan that area one, all that stuff west of the creek, um, that's totally inaccessible. So, I think it's a little bit misleading to say we're going to have all this area for this area, one for dog walking because half of it is cattails and swamp that nobody can really get into. Anyway, um note on the ice ranks. Um the ice ranks, at least in my area, are asphalt. I can't imagine in July trying to bring a dog in there or even I don't care what time of year with a rough surface to throw a ball or whatever, the dogs would get hurt. And they certainly can't handle the heat of the asphalt, too. So, um I came to the first meeting a few years a or about a year ago and I we had a vetinarian that got up and spoke against these fenced in areas and he said the fenced in dog areas lead to aggression between dogs, increased aggression and increase of um spread of disease. So, um I I really, you know, I really don't think a small fence in area is going to be good. Um and I guess the last thing, you know, if we're restricted, you know, there's hundreds of dog walkers there every day. We're there more in the winter and we're some of the only people there. My dog's too hot in the summer to be there. But the dog walkers are really the only people there for a good portion of the year. And if in the summer though when we're busy, if we're all on that outside trail, that's not going to be much fun for all the other people either when you got hundreds of people with dogs on leashes walking in that area. So, thank you. Thanks, Mr. Roach. Good evening. Good evening. Uh my name is Dick Thompson, 5220 Leeway. Um, and I am a founding member of Posher Parks, too. Um, we've been talking about these smaller dog park um, fenced in areas, and I'm pretty sure that the hundreds of cars that stream into purgatory now wouldn't use those. So, I would just not advise to put them in at all. Um, personally, I walk 3 to 5 miles every day. Um, and my dog runs and my dog is a runner and he's there. We're there all the time and I've only seen one incident. It was it was a dog incident. Um, and my dog's pretty tough dog. Um, and I've always had my dog collared and he has great recall. Um, but I I think the last thing I'd like to say is Pause for Parks wants to work with all of the groups and we want to come up with a with a plan that allows people to walk great distances as great as we can and we've got 200 members and we've got 700 petitioners. We're here to help. And if you were to reach out to enlist to us to help in the park some way, I think we'd be a great resource for you. Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Appreciate it. Greetings. Greetings. Uh Denny Harpistad, 146 Carol Drive. I've been in Minnetonka nearly 21 years, walking at Purgatory for about 20 of them now. Three different dogs, big wyers. they run. I understand the compromise. Maybe we have to do that. I would prefer to stay as it is. I love going up to the benches. I've seen these memorials to all these people. It fills my heart with pride for Minnetonka. Um granted, if we have to make it smaller, I don't know what I'd do. Um the smaller areas you've you've heard too many dogs in one area they get wound up. Um not everybody knows their dogs. I can sense when my dog is nervous. I pull them away from other dogs. I head to the hills. It's my sanctuary. Somebody use that. I relax. I am actually of retirement age. planning to retire at the end of the year just as our mayor is. I anticipated using it more, taking a lunch out there in the middle of the week, just sitting watching nature. I also feas feeasant hunt a lot. Prairie grass is meant to be trampled down over the time and mostly it's it's not the dogs as somebody mentioned it's people. Um I've been out there when you've had you've burned it and that's perfect. That's the way to regenerate the prairie grass. Continue doing that. Don't close it off to just a small group of us or regular non-dog people. Quickly, I'm going to add I ran into a young man Sunday pushing a stroller. Two young kids. He's running and his black lab is running with him and he said, "This is how I get rid of stress. Where can he take his children and dogs and run? Just take off. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Back Tom Socker, 5524 Dominic Drive. This has all been said, so I appreciate your comments at the beginning about the balance. Uh I appreciate uh what everyone's trying to do here. I would like to have a sense of urgency with the park board's efforts to find other parks throughout the city so we don't have just one dog park in the south southwest corner of the city, maybe city center and all those things. And I think there should be a sense of urgency for that. Thanks. Thank you for your comments. Good evening. Good morning, Mr. Mayor, Council. I'm Karen Matson. I live at 17380 Hampton Court. I have lived here for 33 years and have been a dog walker for about 18 of those. I am a dog walker outside of purgatory. I am a dog walker in Jadana, Lone Lake, um, Big Willow. And I think one of the challenges we have tonight is so much focus is on our jewel purgatory. But I would maybe ask you to consider changing the timing of your ordinance on the 19th to explore. Otherwise, what you're doing is you're forcing all of us who use the dog parks mostly all those beautiful natural paths and you're going to kind of potentially focus into a small part in this very rare section of purgatory. So maybe it's time to just step back and once again take a look at the big picture. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Good evening. Good evening. Cornell Anderson, 5731 High Park Drive. I think I win the longevity award. We have lived in our home 45 years and I' walked in purgatory for 45 years. I think it's in the thousands of miles by now. Um we our neighborhood which is on Stadola Road has a serious concern about what's going to happen when this is the only dog off leash park that we have. We have a problem now with people coming down to that quote parking area. It's not a parking area. It's a turnaround. It was never meant to be a parking area. So on a, you know, almost every day there's a number of cars in there. It gets full. On weekends it's totally full. The streets are lined on both sides of Sedola. It's a public safety concern. It's it there is not enough room when they're parked on both sides to get a fire truck through, an ambulance through, and there's there's no signs. There's no one side parking. There's it's just there. At one time there was a no parking sign and it's gone for whatever reason. Don't know. But this is a serious concern to the neighborhood. We have many kids. We have bikers going down Stadola. We have walkers, um, dog walkers. This is not really about the dogs. This is about a problem that's going to be increased by not having, you know, by being the only off leash park um in Minnetonka. Where are all these people going to come go? How many more people are going to use the park with their dogs when this happens? We are very concerned and we hope you look into this. It seems like this should have been part of the planning. not sort of a tag on now, but how is this going to be managed? And just putting signs will help maybe, but we know they don't to a great extent. So, please add this to your deliberations. It's an important issue to our community of the people that live in that neighborhood around Stadola. Thank you, Mr. Addison. Thank you. Good evening. Hi, I'm Richard Owen, 16615 Jellum Road. I moved to Minnesota in 1980 and uh rented an apartment and but used Purgatory Park and uh the associated area around Purgatory and and uh for about 5 years, but I've actually owned a home since 1985. So over 40 years of actually living only a block or so away from from the park. And during that time, I've I've bicycled, run, uh dog walked, and in the winter cross-country skied, snowshoed, and my wife Jackie daily for for the last 30 years, has walked one of our dogs. We've had three three different shelters, but she's walked every day, at least three hours a day, no matter the weather, rain, shine, or the weather. And u she follows the rules. She she's leashed around uh other other people that are uncomfortable with dogs or of course on the the the marked areas where you're supposed to be leashed. But she prefers to walk with all of her friends throughout all the the open areas hour upon hour upon hour. And she has so many friends, so many dog friends and people friends. And uh we'd certainly like it to remain that way per the master plan uh with as necessary some fencing on the east side and uh as necessary more more signage and as the the PA pause group and others say to educate people and to to just just educate people and ask people to comply. In all those years I've been there, I've never seen a a serious issue issue. Yes, we have a dog that occasionally when I'm running or or I see others, a dog may may come up and jump up and you you may get a couple paw prints, dirty paw prints on you, but that's that's the worst I've ever seen. It's never bothered me. Again, I'm a a dog person, but I but I respect others that are less less familiar with dogs, so I can understand a few efforts, but we really would like to follow the master plan and leave the area open as others have recommended. Look into other areas for a dog park. Purgatory should not be a dog park. It's an open area where large areas remain off leash, but it's not a dog park. look into dog parks for the people who really want a dog park and have an uncontrollable dog that would off leash needs to be in a quote dog park. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Owen. Good evening. Hi there. Thanks for waiting. Yeah, no worries. I'm Dan Phelp. I live at 55 uh 5501 Nantucket Place. Uh so I'm right at the end of the culde-sac of Nantucket. Um so if you look at the little corner of area 4 and the park, that's that's me. um and my neighbors. Uh so I lived in Minneapolis for many years. Uh my wife and I got married. Uh we had our first child and then we moved out to Minnotonka actually after taking a walk around Purgatory Park. Um and we identified a house that was for sale and we purchased that exact house because we love the park so much. Um I literally don't have a dog in this fight. I don't have a dog, but I do have three children. Um, uh, one goes to Scenic Heights, the other will next year, and, uh, hopefully my son will as well. Uh, Jack, what the reason that we moved out here was because the park, yes, there was dogs, there were no fences. Um, there were no fences anywhere. It was a wonderful place to walk around. Um, but I also have a lot of respect for my neighbors who have done a lot of restoration work um, outside of their backyards and through the prairie. So I would simply ask is there a way that we can just better protect these highv value areas in the park and leave the rest open. Um one thing that I am concerned about is if the u area 4 project that um some others discussed today happens. What what I didn't buy is a house that abuted a very highly concentrated dog park um where there's a lot of dogs fenced in in one area. Um, and I don't want to be a nimi person. Um, I'm certainly not saying that. But I would prefer if the park was open and there weren't a bunch of ugly fences everywhere. Um, but if it'd be nice if that you could somehow protect the high value targets because I do have a lot of respect for all of the uh environmental and restoration work that's been done. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Oh, sorry. Last one. Can I say one more thing? One more thing. Go for If there is a project that happens in that area for I would just ask that the um property owners that do abut that um be somehow involved in the design work or some somehow contacted about it. That was not in the master plan originally and it's something new that I just heard today. So very good. Thanks. Good evening. Hello. I I am the last. Okay. Um my name is Ellen Hag. Um 717080 Chilton Hills Road. Um, I think as I've been listening here tonight, the takeaway that I really had was, um, just in the future as a council, if you could collaborate more closely with the key groups involved here today, um, the deadline you said of May 19th was frankly impossible to meet. Uh, you work in government. You know, government works slowly. To have had only three of those meetings um, just was not realistic. By forcing this issue, you increased the polarization and intensity of this topic rather than setting a realistic timeline that allowed for real collaboration and compromise. The lack of recommendation coming from the working group is a testament to that. Um, a meaningful compromise can be found and you're right, mayor, that it will require um, some hard feelings on both sides. Um, and I think many of us here are prepared for that. Um, and yes, this has been talked about for years. I was at the meeting in November and but it hadn't been coordinated. the can had just been kicked down the road by group after group after group and there wasn't good data. Um so the sincere and coordinated effort was frankly very very short. Um so I would urge you to consider as my friend Karen said delaying the ordinance to give this more adequate time and now that you have created a working group keep that in play. Um, and in the meantime, I strongly hope that you will uh approve the park board's proposal to allow us something somewhere to be if you won't move the ordinance. So, that's my request. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. So, I see no one uh left in line and so I am going to uh close the public comment period and um and bring it back to the council. But before I do, um you we did talk about the timing element and the um Miss Hag, the last speaker, um commented on that as well. So I'm going to turn to our city attorney to understand what um to better clarify for me and for everyone here what options may exist in terms of timing. Um the time the ordinance has been passed. It is it is an ordinance in the city. Um, but the the city council makes the ordinances and we have some some flexibility. So, I'm just going to ask the city attorney Eric Nelson to uh kind of explain what options potentially exist if there was any desire by the council to change timing. Sure. Thank you, Mayor Worerome. Uh, I think there are a couple options. Um, the fir the first is as you mentioned the the work of the ordinance and crafting the ordinance and adopting the ordinance was done last fall. um the the um effective date which is a part or was a part of that ordinance and is a part of that ordinance um is really key for enforcement. Uh and so on the one hand you could take the very formal approach and take the necessary steps to amend the ordinance which would just be changing the effective date. Uh but that would require introduction at a council meeting followed by second reading and adoption at a subsequent meeting which would take us past uh the 19th. So, I think um as Captain Mi said, the the police are approaching this with um what what I would call soft enforcement um for a a significant period of time, which would largely consist of education. Um, and in light of that, uh, and if the council wanted to emphasize this point, I think another way you could approach this, uh, is considering, uh, making a motion where you could actually direct staff to suspend enforcement, uh, until such time that the off leash strategy and guidance plan is adopted if that if there was a will to do that for more time. Well, thank you for that. I I think it's important to clarify that and I and I appreciate that and I think that can be um part of any conversation we have as we as we consider okay what are the uh what are the steps going forward. So um with that I will um you know I'll bring it back to the council. I I see some um um interest and council members perhaps to ask any questions associated with that. maybe some questions with um what was just said and then uh we'll bring it back for comment um and uh we get to make a decision tonight. No. Um, so Council Member Romey. Yeah. Thank you, Mayor. Um, if I could just follow up with councel. Um, if we were to amend the ordinance, I understand the timing issue. What if we convened a special meeting to do the second reading? Is that an option? Uh, Mayor Wear, Council Member Romey, that conceivably is an option. I don't think you need to do it. I do think um the easiest way to do it is to um have you know heard the testimony of of the police but then to go ahead and make a formal motion to direct staff to suspend enforcement so that nothing would happen. Um that that's that's really the key really. It makes me nervous to do things like suspend um enforcement especially if there's no deadline or timeline. So anyway, just thank you. Um, Council Member Wilbur and following up on that, like sorry to keep coming at you, but um, it isn't it possible to uh, introduce an amendment to the ordinance tonight and then at the next meeting uh, vote on it, which would be the 19th, which would not be beyond the the You know what I'm saying? [Applause] Um, Mr. Nelson. Yeah. So, Mayor Worome, Council Member Wvern, I'm I'm I'm learning the the council process each each day. Um, yeah. So, the so the the charter and code require introduction at first reading at one meeting. Conceivably, if there was a way to accomplish that tonight on the floor, I don't know. Typically staff like to be deliberative about these things and submit both a and I know this would be a very simple amendment but you would have a draft of the amendment form. You would have to put a specific date in then. So keep that in mind. With an effective date, you're going to have to put in a date. Um, which is another reason why I think if you had a more of a motion tied to suspension of enforcement, you could you could leave that tied to the to such time that the the the council adopted the off leash strategy and guidance plan, which gives you a little more time. Perhaps you would like a date, but you could also put a date in that as well, but that's that's for you to decide. Okay. Well, I will say at least one council member suggested that it might be something we want to do tonight. So just saying very good. Well, I don't think we're in the action phase of um uh you know, I think we've got a lot to talk about and a lot of things to consider. So um you know, one of one of the things um I think people who have observed me in this role, I've said numerous times and whenever there's change, I mean, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the stop. and uh and it's the sudden it's sudden changes that I think are bad um um and hard for people to absorb. And so, you know, I think we are talking about um May 19th being a pretty sudden um moment and a pretty significant change. So, um again, I think we should discuss this more holistically. Um um but I think timing is is a factor that can be considered. So, Council Member Wilburn. Okay. So, I have all kinds of thoughts about where what areas should be considered, but I I will just make these points and if we decide that we're going to hash it out tonight, so be it. Um, one, I I just want to point out the Purgatory Park master plan has been approved. The plan is in place. The map with the red areas is a map that was included to show where on leash areas were required at the time of the of that the plan went into place. It was not a plan for where off leash areas should be. There's a suggestion of the one one area, but so that that's just not what it was. Um, as far as timing goes, as you've probably gathered, I am I am willing to uh address the timing however works best. I I'm kind with Council Member Rome. It makes me a little nervous to have something on the books and say, "Oh, we're just not going to enforce it." As opposed to just making an amendment. But whatever council decides, I I I would rather have us uh spend more time getting to something that works better. Obviously, again, we're never going to have a perfect solution than to to put something in uh for this date. There was there was concern when that date was picked. I remember there was there was there was talk about it and that we thought it was a pretty tight timeline and that's why it was included that it would just be designation and not it actually being completely ready to go. But again, there are some areas that we're considering that just aren't I mean would are going to take some time before they're even accessible. So um so yes, I'm in favor of pushing the time back. I am also in favor of looking at other parks at the same time so that it's there isn't just one park where people can go. Um, and again, I I understand the the staff's wanting to do a master plan before every before uh places are chosen, but I think it's possible to to find some reasonable areas to put uh off leash areas in and then work that into the master plan when the time comes. Um, and my final thing I will say is which I said at the at the meeting when we passed the ordinance to me this is not just a numbers thing. It's not well 100 people want it and 50 don't when we're talking about safety. And I know that a lot of you have not had had bad interactions or seen bad interactions and that's great. And I know that like the bad interaction there may not be that great a number as the to the mayor's point. We don't really know how many because most people aren't going to think to report uh an incident to the police. Um but we know there have been some. We had a lady stand up at our podium crying a dog owner who had been walking her dog and was attacked with her dog and she was terrified. Um, so it does happen and I believe it's incumbent upon the council to consider safety when we're making our decisions. Um, so that's where we are. And if if we have more to, you know, if we're going to decide tonight, then I have more input. But that's that's it for now. Thank you, Council Member Wilburn. Um, Council Member Foster Bolton. Um, yeah, there's there's so much um and I I agree about the timing as well, but I and I I also um think that it needs to be said that Purgatory Park was never intended to be a dog park. I mean, it was a it's been a preserve. I mean, that's what it's read. That's what I read in the Purgatory Park master plan. That's what I read in the post. That's what I read in the natural resources master plan is that it's a it's a park, it's a reserve and preserve and um and I and you know, and I hear it when people say, "Well, does that mean that people can't go on the prairie at all?" I don't I don't think that's that's not what we're saying. And um you can see like I was out there this weekend and I see the prairie where the dogs go and just across the path there's a stairway that goes up on top of a hill and there's prairie grass there and it's clearly different. It's clearly growing and healthy compared to the to the area where the off leash dogs are. I mean, it doesn't take a scientist to see the difference between these two areas. And I mean, with a with a with it trampled like that, I can't see how snakes are ground nesting animals can live. I mean, it it doesn't I don't see it anywhere. Um, and it's it was never meant to be and it has grown into that in in the years. There's more dogs. I mean, since co there's just more dogs and more dogs. I mean, I I work at a hospital and it's this this issue has been on Carol 11 and um I have people coming up to me and saying, "Oo, there's an off leash area. I'm coming to Minnetonka." and that and the fact that it's the only one in the in the area scares me because then it's going to be trampled even more and there's going to be more dogs from all over the regional area. Um, and the other thing is is that we haven't really said much about the wetlands and every time I've gone there, which isn't that much because I I'm one of those people that are terrified. I mean, I I'm fine with leash dogs, and I have a grand puppy that I love, but it it might be, you know, irrational, but when a dog approaches me, whether they're there to be uh friendly or, oh, the dog's fine, it doesn't matter. I don't know. And it scares me to death. And I my I don't I've run these I've trained for seven marathons in this city and it's just been in the last seven year excuse me few years that I have switched my running to go on the streets because I'm running into off leash dogs everywhere not just Purgatory Park and people and I don't call the police every time that happens. Um, I don't, you know, even tell the city manager, but I've been yelled at a number of times, too many times, you know, profanity when I asked, "Put, can you please put your dog on a leash?" I'm scared. And that, you know, oh, the dog's fine. Don't be blah blah blah. And and and I and so now I change my route and I think about it twice before I go running. And I won't go walking through the trails unless I'm with my friend who isn't afraid of dogs um that are off leash because it's going to happen. And my fear is that I don't want to take away dog parks from from PE. It's like but from from you guys but I do want to and and I don't think this purgatory park like the area four or area five I think we can have we can have those areas and not have that fence like they can be soft barriers. Um they're far away from they're farther than it seems to me and I don't know how people re how people feel about that but it's close to the I mean there's walking trails and it's close to the parking ramp lot and you know non you know off leash dog people can go one way and and off leash dog people can go another way. I mean I I saw it and there are trails through there in area five. I mean, it's it needs to be forest cut, but it seems like you could forest cut a loop. So, then you'd have a loop. I mean, I think that there it's solvable, and I think it is without a fence. I mean, I think we can do this without a fence. But my concern is also that we have other off leash areas that aren't fenced within Minnotonka Parks. Like I feel like this should be we should have one off leash area with no fence in Minnotonka and that's it. Like for the rest of the areas, they need to be fenced whether they're 18 miles or 10 miles or however long. Um if if that's not the case, it feels like we're we're just going to be the unleashed dog mecca to me. And maybe maybe I'm wrong and maybe other people on the council don't feel that way, but um it it that worries me. I mean, so I'm just wondering how people feel about those areas and and it, you know, and and moving the time as well. But if we can, but having this be and and we can heavily monitor like you know and have it be easy for people to report like have some kind of like whatever you know thing we can hold up to our phone and report it right away either to the police or to the city and gather that data and make some changes based on that data. But I think we can I I think we can have an area in Purgatory Park that isn't fenced that's off leash. I think it's possible, but I don't want to include the prairie. I mean, I don't want to. So, that's all I have to say right now. Anyone else? Council member Kley. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. So, I heard a couple things that stood out to me tonight. Um, one thing that we haven't talked about enough was the parking on Sedola Road. Um, um, I think that's really important. Um, I know that in the master plan there's, um, talk to address that parking area or not even a parking area, but street. But I uh really what the resident said in regards to living on um that street really resonated with me because I have went to that road and parked and I remember thinking like this is a turnaround and you know cars are here parked here and I even myself I parked there because I saw other cars doing it and that was like a one-time thing for me but I just remember that situation thinking that it wasn't a safe spot and so So, I feel like um we have not addressed that enough if we're going to approve this plan. I also feel like that um I feel like it's being rushed. Um I feel like it's being rushed because it's so many people here tonight who have different opinions and I know that, you know, we have had three working groups, but I feel like um maybe we could do more. Um, and I I don't want to dismiss the work that the staff have put in put into this work and in the community um the groups, but I just feel like we're going to need some more time because it's just so many unanswered questions. Um, and I think um, it's going to take more time to really find a place and also not just in the um, prerogatory park, but in some of the other parks, too. Um, I know that this park does get really busy. Um, I've been there several times where I mean it's the parking is full off of Excelsier. Um, it gets really busy in the summertime far as the street gets busy. I live right off Excelsier, so it's it's pretty busy. Um, I've been in the park. I walked around the park several times. Probably not as many times as some other folks, but I've had the experience with a dog coming from the savannah running up the hill. You know, my friend freaked out like she really did. I mean, I was I'm kind of a little bit more tougher than her, but she did freak out and I was just like, just be still. the dog is fine. But um I have seen that happen. So um you know that is can be an issue. I'm sitting here thinking about okay well area one if you did have something there. Well I mean I know it's not the ideal place but even I mean I don't know about how folks feel about it but I'm like well what about electric fence? I know people don't like that too much but I'm like sure electric fence at least you can't see it. You know, that's my thought. I'm not, you know, that's I mean, I'm just telling you what I'm thinking, but um I'm I have a little grandd dog, too. Um I don't know all the issues around dogs and how extra fences um impact dogs, but I know I see in Minnetonka, there's a lot of folks who have them cuz I walk through Minnetonka and they have them and I walk and I like, is it this dog going to come out on the road? But no, they stop right there. So, I'm like, oh, that's nice. But you never know if they have it or not. So I thought about that. Um I thought about how many experts are in the room that can um really address you know the the savannah can address the different areas in the park. I mean that was a question like there was a couple I know that came up tonight and I think it was a sc a doctor either scientist he said something that was really I thought was good. Um he like he made a lot of good suggestions around the park and so um just wanted to say that. What else? I know that um someone talked about the three river parks not being a paid uh the three river parks are the ones that was the paid parks. So I just wanted to know did we know of any cities that had parks that are not part of the three rivers where they have a paid park um leash park. So, I don't know if that was true or not, but I don't have a dog to be taken to park. So, I just wanted to ask that question. And and then another statement was about I know that we really care about the natural spaces here and I know there's an argument that this is not really a real savannah. I don't know that answer or not. You know, if you talk about the natives and who was here first, we'll go back through history and we know that it don't belongs to none of us. Like, let's let's get real. So, um I don't know. Um I look to staff to explain that part, but um I don't I don't know. It's a lot to take in tonight. I mean, there's so many pulling points on all sides and so I just think we probably could take some time to really digest it some more and then come up with some more solutions or something. Council member Shaq. Thank you, Mayor. I, you know, I'm hearing the sentiment to kick the can, which I, you know, I I'm a little reticent to do because I think we're not realistic about what that involves necessarily. My concern, I mean, and and and I want to get to a resolution one way or another, but my real concern is we would be lying to ourselves, I think, if we thought that we could push this out a few months and designate two, three, four more areas without doing any real public engagement. you know, if we talk about Big Willow, for instance, um I know that the folks over there and and even though there's maybe an area that's less connected to residential, it is connected to residential. And I do believe that those residents would want us to hear from them before we designate an area off leash or a dog park. And likewise many of the other areas identified by the working group. I think they are great. I think there are great options. I think if we are doing this we are saying we are kicking the can down the road probably for a while. And that makes me nervous because I I feel strongly that if you are going to do something that you should stick with it and try to do it. And I think the longer we we delay the less likely we are. But if that's, you know, I I can be swayed and I would like us to get to some kind of consensus tonight. I will say, you know, I have three concerns. My one concern is, you know, we say we want Minnetonka to be a place where all people feel welcome. If I owned a mall and I took a survey and people responded and 47 peop 47% of the respondents said, "I'm not going to come to your mall because I don't feel safe there." Whatever the reason, they don't feel safe. They're telling me they don't feel safe at my mall. And I would be in crisis mode if I received that information. And it may be perception, right? I know my mom is afraid of dogs. She loves my dog who's a jerk, but he I love him. He's a very sweet dog. He's just not um you know, he he doesn't have good manners despite a lot of effort. Um but if she were in a park where there were dogs that could run up to her on a trail, she would leave. She would not go to that park and she would never go back. And I think there are a lot more. I think there are people we've heard from those people. We've heard from a lot of those people. And I hate to say you're not we don't care. We don't care that you don't feel safe in our parks. That is not the message that we want to relay. So if we are going to kick the can down the road, we have to have a plan for how we are going to because what kicking the can down the road does is it delays the new ordinance and people can have off leash dogs anywhere throughout the city. We we know this, right? We know that's the problem with the old ordinance. So I'm struggling because I think there are solutions. I think there need to be other locations identified and implemented throughout the city. I do think we want to do that, right? And we also want to try to get to the point where we have people feeling safe like they can come into our our parks and they can have dogs. You know, somebody wrote and and I'll wrap it up because I don't need to, you know, belabor it, but somebody wrote in an email over the weekend that they said, "You're going to kick dogs out of the park. We're not kicking dogs out of any parks with the exception of a preserve that we have in the city. There are no areas where dogs are not allowed. It's a question of whether they need to be leashed or not. So, you know, I it is an issue. I'm concerned about it. I want to do this right, but I also want to address this thing that's been hanging out there for many years, which is 47% of the people who responded to the survey said they don't feel safe coming to the park. Council member Calbertt, thank you, Mayor. You know, here's the thing. I agree with everything. I agree with people that want to kick the count down the road and I understand 1,000% what council member Shaq is saying about, you know, doing the right thing and keeping people safe. And um I think what makes this so hard for me is I truly appreciate and empathize and understand all of the perspectives. Truly, I have two rescue dogs at my house at any given time. More often I have three or four. Um I I'm I'm on a national environmental committee. My husband was a wildland firefighter and um was the ranger for the largest um ecosystem in the lower 48 states. and uh the environment is hugely important to me. Um and he was also a public safety officer and public safety is very important to me and I really hear the people that feel threatened by dogs. I really did hear from people in this very room who were crying because they and their dogs had been attacked and hurt. So it it's not that it doesn't happen, it's it's that it's not often reported and enforcement is another issue. And um so I have a lot of thoughts. My feeling is that human behavior is human behavior. And I was talking with Mr. Funk and we were sort of talking about that this morning and This ordinance is sort of like speeding laws. You know, if people were common sensical, we wouldn't even have to have this conversation. They'd understand. Like, I have I have a pitbull mix who wouldn't hurt a fly, but she does act loud and she makes people afraid. We stopped taking her to dog parks uh because even though she'd never heard a dog, people kept on saying that they she scared them. I have a golden retriever who you can tell from from 5 miles away just wants love and you know sticks to us like glue and also will not relieve himself if he's on a leash. He will not. So to re so he can relieve himself, I have to let him off somewhere. Human nature is human nature. And I know that people are going to violate the leash law if we implement it right now, especially if we don't have sufficient places for dogs to for everyone to sort of adjust to a new reality. And this is a pretty radical radical change. Um, so, um, you know, I'm trying to be realist both in terms of what council member Shaq is saying and also the fact that I know that people are just not going to they're just not going to follow the rule right now because we don't have adequate alternatives for them in place after they've truly lived a lifestyle for a long time. And by the same token, I have people sitting in this room that have worked their tails off doing amazing environmental and restoration work alongside our amazing staff. And I truly value it and I want it to be honored and protected and not trampled. And um you know so to me what we're fixing here is you know speeding laws are there to make sure that people don't do things like drive so fast that they ram into the back of a teenager and kill him or speed around a bus with the arm down uh speed around a school bus which I see occasionally on Baker Road where I live. And so, you know, if people were common sensical and saw dogs coming and they put their dog on a leash to avoid a conflict, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. But that is not what happens. And even if we had um education um and signage, I'm not sure that everyone would comply. And when people do bad things and there no laws governing them, um, it makes enforcement and behavior change that much harder. So, this is really a conundrum. And I will just say I always I I I have so much respect for Council Member Shaq and um her lawyerly mind and I understood why she wanted to set a fairly aggressive date, but I always thought it was too aggressive because it would affect such a drastic change in a community that that I will say like my parents just moved here a year and a half ago and they've never seen seen so many dogs in their life and they've always had a dog. So, [Music] um I also was really concerned about the the condensed timeline of the working group. Um I have some concerns about I have to first of all just give staff kudos because there really wasn't a whole lot of consensus. the the timeline was too condensed. There wasn't enough time to really get the big group together. It was a bunch of small groups. They had surveys and I think, you know, basically staff had to tabulate the the results without a whole lot of, you know, sort of hashing out of differences and had to come up with a plan. And I think they did they did a pretty responsible job under uh difficult circumstances. And I also um want to commend the new park board members, some of whom were here tonight because they were I think that was their second meeting and it was really intimidating to have such a controversial issue. I was just talking with one of the park board members at during the break and um he he goes, "Yeah, that we got thrown into the deep end, but they did an amazing job learning the history, learning the issues, and I have to say they several of them really did identify some of the issues with the process." And I I think there were definite issues with the process and I don't know that we have great data to go at this time to make a sensible decision and um because in my mind people are not going to you know if we go ahead and and and implement um the the leash law without adequate space for dogs. And I I personally do think that there are dogs that need to run, like really run. And it's not just about them getting their energy out. It's an experience that the human shares with their animal. And um they don't want to be in some sterile um environment. That's why people love purgatory. And I really do understand that. So, um, and I do understand that it's a preserve and so we're we're in quite a bind. So, for me, I personally, um, you know, kind of a nightmare when you're when you're running for reelection and we may be voting on this two days before the election. And you know what? I'll take a courageous vote and we're going to take the vote. I just don't know that we are uh ready to do it. But um I am willing to work for consensus here and I am also convincable um either way because the merits of council member Shack's arguments and the other arguments for waiting to me both make sense. Council member Romey or did you have a No, go ahead. Council member Romey and and then I'll circle back to Council Member Wilin. Thank you, Mayor. And first of all, thanks to everybody um who kind of came up and and kind of spoke from your heart and I know this is a really hard issue. Um and it's a hard issue to kind of examine and weigh. Um I think you know I I got a lot of emails. I tried to respond to a lot most of them through Friday and you know basically said this is a an issue where we have to weigh a lot of different factors. It's not just public who come numbers of who who's coming up and writing us emails. It's like looking at our our our key planning documents really for the city which you know we've talked about are the NRMP, the natural resources master plan, the post plan, purgatory park master plan. Those are all um key things. Um I do want to kind of reiterate, circle back to a couple things some of my colleagues have said. Um Council Member Wilburn, you know, noted again that the park board, and I don't think we can, this doesn't seem to be getting through um very well. The park board uh passed recommendation. I don't know how it happened. Um, but that was a misperception of that plan. That plan was never intended as the permanent plan. It was codifying what was in current practice. Um, so I don't know how how else how many times to say that. So when people say, can you just pass the the park the purgatory park master plan? There is no permanent purgatory park master plan for off leash dogs. It's not there. So, I think we need to, you know, please uh disabuse ourselves of of that misapprehension. I don't know how it happened. I also know that several of the park board members clearly didn't think that they were um in in what they passed, they didn't believe that they were passing a permanent solution even even with that. So they came back later and they said really we didn't think that was permanent. So that was you know I I am having trouble even taking that into account to be honest. Um, so, uh, I think you know, per Paty Foster Bolton, our our my colleague, this is a preserve. It's not a dedicated dog park like the other large ones that are in the area. If somebody can find um that cautisole from a deed or a donation that says that it was donated as a dedicated off leash dog, by all means, produce it. I'd love to see that. Um, you know, per council member Shaq, um, you know, public safety is job one for us as our mayor tells us often. Um, you know, I have a dog whom I love, 12, 14year-old now, Tibetan terrier, tiny little thing, sweetest thing in the world. I've been at purgatory and had to stand between her and charging dogs on main trails multiple times. So, you know, when you tell us you've never seen this, maybe you haven't, but we're also hearing other people who have, including ourselves. Um, so I'm not saying it happens all the time, but I I am empathetic to the fact that people don't report it because I didn't. Um, you know, I think, uh, we've got groups that want no fences, large natural areas, places to run. Um, and we want people who want to preserve high value natural environmental areas. I think we can have all of those things, but I don't know if we can have them all in the same park. So, after hearing everybody tonight, my thoughts are this. I, you know, at first was I wanted a fenced area, hard fence area, because I just, I don't have confidence. Dogs don't read signs. Um, so, you know, I was really having trouble with that concept. However, um I heard uh Council Member Foster Bolton's suggestion of areas uh you know, the Red Barn area and possibly forest mowing the Buckthornne area with a trail. Um and I and not having, you know, hard barriers because that they were so segmented and separated from the rest of the park. And I thought, well, okay, I could maybe live with that. Um, even though I'd prefer hard barriers, I'm I would be willing to do that on a trial pilot basis um with strong compliance monitoring and a complaint system so we can gather that data on how it works whether it's six months to a year. If everything's going everything's going great, we have you know substantial significant compliance, not a problem. then it stays. If not, then we have to look at other options which may include looking at another dedicated park. Like somebody else said, we can't have maybe we can't have all parks be all things to all people. Maybe we do need one dedicated lower value natural environment area park that is only for off leash dogs. I think we do have parks that would be that. They're not going to be 155 acres. They might be 20, 30, 40. But there would be areas where there wouldn't be multiple users. It could be a dedicated. So maybe that's an option that we try a pilot. My least favorite option um but I could support would be keeping the interim plan that the park board uh voted on which I am having trouble understanding. Um, but taking out all of the high value uh prairie areas and doing that as a pilot, but very limited time, very limited time. In fact, I would prefer not even to do that as a pilot. I would prefer that to do that as a temporary, which is what it was intended to be in the first place according to the purgatory park master plan while plans are being made for another isolated dedicated park because at the end of the day, you know, I think these uses probably are best totally separated to be honest and I would prefer to have limited, you know, I'm willing to see a segment mented area of of Purgatory Park for off leash dogs. I am not supportive of having a 100 acres or even 50 acres of Purgatory Park, you know, having so, you know, that is so out of balance with our neighboring communities. um when there are plenty 40 20 to 40 uh other dog parks in the area within 10 to 20 miles of Minnetonka. I think we look look at not only as a comprehensive Minnitankka approach but as a comprehensive regional area approach and um and so you know those are those are the things that I've been thinking about and I've been thinking and looking at all of the plans and studying this a lot and I came to council uh my first meeting was or second meeting was another very controversial issue and it was in my ward and there was also environmental impacts and I had to go against what the environmentalists wanted to do because I had to look at the data, the facts, the evidence and balance those you know against individual group and community interests and responsibilities and I think you know it's really incumbent upon us to do that here. Um, you know, I hear the off leash dog proponents. I understand. I totally get that. I've had big dogs that needed to run. Again, I think if if we're looking at that sort of situation with larger acreage, we need to look at another park. And I will throw that out to my colleagues to discuss react to. Council member Wilburn. Okay. Um, so I 100% understand where you're coming from, council member Shaq, and I and I do agree with you as as that safety, you know, that's the whole reason we did this is about safety. And so delaying does does, you know, not protect the people that we're we're hoping to protect. Um, I will share my thinking on why I wanted to delay. Um, but I also have some very strong opinions. Um, which I am willing to share tonight if we decide to to go forth. So, um, my hope, as I'm sure all of ours, hope was that this the the process with the work group would produce a compromise that took into account natural resources, safety, um, an area for dogs to be off leash, an area for for, um, reactive dogs or nervous dogs to be on leash, and not have to interact. And that took into account the neighbors um and not having dogs run onto their property. Um things did not go perfectly. It would be an understatement. Um and so I I appreciate all the work that the that the work group put in. Um, and I know there were some areas that and we're looking at some of the areas they discussed. Um, I understand that staff, uh, you know, the attempt to to follow the criteria and come up with a compromise. Not 100% thrilled with the staff recommendation um, because of the effect of the prairie and because it's not separate. And I agree with Council Member Bolton that we need to have off leaked dogs going one direction and everybody else going a different direction. Um, so, you know, going going into the park board though, you know, I still I like it. I'm like I'm not thrilled with the staff, but maybe, you know, maybe they can make a few tweaks and and and come up with something better. was not expecting what's what came out of the park board recommendation. And at that point, you know, like we we were not we were expecting to get a recommendation or some recommendations to choose from, not having to do it ourselves. Um, and it's 10 10 already. Um and I think like you know even just a study session or something where we we sit down and discuss these things like it doesn't have to be six months from now but at least I I think we just need more time to discuss this but I am also like if we want to stay and figure it out tonight I am willing to stay and figure it out tonight. Anyone else? Just just just one more thing and that is just one. It's only one. Okay, I'm counting. It is just one. I'm counting. It's actually something that that um we've noodled on and it's been kind of thrown out there. we have is you brought it up earlier about sort of acorage and I mean we're talking about a lifestyle change here. This I I get a little frustrated about sort of compartmentalizing needs so you can exercise your dog and you know that's sort of what we're trying to accomplish and that is not um that's not necessarily what we're trying to accomplish. I I literally feel like Solomon, you know, we we need I'm praying for some wisdom here. And I do feel like people have sort of used the parks the way they've used them for a long time. And so the people that enjoy um the off leash have had a tremendous privilege. And now and now we're trying to enforce as Dr. Jockers mentioned the responsibility and not everybody is responsible and I try to be responsible and in terms of like interactions my own pitbull mix was on a leash and you know barked at people walking into the park. So not really an an altercation but some people just don't like that and they you know she needs to be leashed unfortunately for her. I do have to find places to let her off because she needs to run around. That's why I'm so sympathetic. So to me, I again have so much respect for uh Council Member Rome, but I do feel like people are accustomed to 100 acres of running around. And I think we don't have to be like every other community in my opinion. I do think we have to try to be very respectful of the areas that the staff and volunteers have been working hard on to restore. And I do have a certain amount of skepticism. That was a farm. If you walk around, you can still see the fence posts. It's it was it was a farm. So, it had already been degraded and now we're hoping to regenerate it. What I'm saying is I do think that there might be a way to cut this baby in half and make sure that there's still accessibility to all areas of the park and keep people safer and make sure that there's a dedicated area for dogs and a dedicated area for people who don't want to interact with off leash dogs. And I also feel like we need to have we need to sort of think holistically about the amount of acreage that we allow for people to to run their dogs and where it does make need where it makes sense to allow that to happen and I don't want it to be highly concentrated areas because some of the uh issues that people brought up before about concentrated areas are also true. So, um, disease spreads more easily. The it does get degraded. If you go to Bryant Lake in the spring and the fall, it's just a giant mud bog. And when it starts icing over, it's really icy. So, I know what people are saying. But we're going to have to figure something out. And pe it's going to be a real comp compromise. And people aren't going to have what they had. We're we're going to change and it's going to be painful. and that's just the way it's going to be. And there's not a person in this room that's going to get everything they want. So, anyone else? Otherwise, I'll throw in a few comments. Um, anyone? I I um I know you're itching, so Okay, you're good. All right. So, um one, thank you all for being here tonight. Um you know, challenging emotional issue. Um, I think uh, Council Member Calvert's Old Testament um, um, uh, comment about Solomon is really um, a lot of what we're having to do tonight. There is no elegant, beautiful solution that we could just put a bow around and and deliver and have everybody walk out of here with a smile. Um, that's that's not available to us. Um, I really think timing is a factor. Um, and um, I respect Council Shaq a lot, but I really don't think adding time is kicking the can down the road. This is a controversial, difficult topic. And clearly, we would like to be done with it. I would, the park board would, staff would. We'd like to be done with it. I think all of you would like to be done with it. But there isn't an elegant solution that is particularly satisfying. And I have a there's a number of cliches that I live by. And one is you don't make strategic decisions for tactical reasons. And I think we picked May 19th kind of tactically because it was convenient. And boy, we wanted to be done with this and we wanted to move forward. But the fact of the matter is what we ended up with was options that really didn't reflect a strategic view, a big picture view of what needs to get done. So we squeezed this decision into a short period of time and we're now somewhat surprised with a with a narrowed process that we don't like the options that we're confronting. And frankly, I don't like any of the options that we're confronting. Um I, you know, um because what's really happening, I mean, again, I got an email from somebody and said, "You're turning Purgatory Park, and I said this earlier, into a a dog park." And I thought, "No, we're not." Um Purgatory Park's a park that everyone should use. And then I started thinking about it. We're taking all of the off leash areas away in the city. There's only going to be one place where where people can have their dog off leash. And uh and I mean, what's the definition of a dog park? I mean, it sounds like we've turned our biggest the the the crown jewel of Minnetonka Parks into a dog park. Now, if that had been if that had been presented as um as the option that we were considering tonight, um the council has to decide on turning one park, the biggest park, the crown jewel park of Minnetonka into a dog park. How would we vote? Well, that's really what we're being asked to do. And I'm not satisfied with that. Um, I think that, you know, I I I commented that this is an issue about acres, location, and timing. And I really think those are the three the three key issues. But timing, we need more time because we need more options to say what's a more holistic view going to look like. If the answer is only if the answer is only Purgatory Park and we're not going to have any other dog um off leash dog areas in the city, I'm going to say, "Okay, let's draw a line down the middle of Purgatory Park and figure it out. We're going to cut it in half and figure it out." It's not a good solution. It's the solution. But I'm not recommending that either. I mean, there's a lot of issues here and I think it's going to take more time to to take a strategic view to make a strategic decision. the options are not going to be any any easier. But I also want to just comment on a couple of things. I'm going to tell a dog story, too. Um the um um you know, the idea that an on on leash dog is under control is a fallacy. Um I have I have a little snouser. Um I'll tell you what, I I love that Snower. Like I mean that that little dog gives our family, my wife and me, so much joy. Um um and we got her just shortly after um our previous schnowzer died unexpectedly and we were devastated. And so little Lizzy is a great and Lizzy um our our our previous schnowzer Lucy died the day Queen Elizabeth died. So we got Lizzy, we were fortunate to find her. We drove to Nebraska to find her and um and we named her after Queen Elizabeth Lizzy uh because of that connection with our previous dog. And so we love this dog and I we take her for a lot of walks and I was taking her for a walk across the um the boardwalk on um um by Grace Bay and there was a a young family coming toward me and it was a mom and it was a dad and it was a yellow lab and it was a stroller and it was and these people were not paying attention to the dog. They had the baby and the stroller and this and that. And that yellow lab jumped on my snouser. I had reeled her in, jumped on her, picked her up in its mouth, broke her skin. Um, and uh, and oh, my dog never did that. You know, that never happened before. Well, it happened to me. Um, and I had reeled my dog in. Dogs are unpredictable. And most dog problems are not dog problems. They're people problems. But the reality of it is dogs are unpredictable. And so we're going to have to deal with the reality of we are a dog friendly city. Um we um the the old ordinance, let's just be honest, was a bad ordinance. I mean, it gave people with dogs a lot of freedom, but it was not enforcable. It was unclear. And the council took the action to change that. we took the right action, but um we really need to to think through the implications of changing that law and and and having a strategic solution. And we don't have a strategic solution tonight. So, I think, you know, I think I'm going to turn to um my recommendation is that we extend the effective date and however we want to do it. I mean, if we want to pass another order, it's fine. But I'm perfectly satisfied with saying, you know what, we're just going to delay enforcement. It's the simplest thing to do. Is that the is that the most elegant legal answer? No. But we need more time. And how are we going to get it? Let's get it as expediently as possible. And then let's let's take back create a plan um so that we can get to a better, more strategic answer. I mean, it's going to put us all through a lot more pain. I mean, we're going to be talking about this for some months more, but we need to get to the right right solution that reflects the the values of our community and frankly the past practice of our community um so that we can get to a good a good position. Um it's going to require compromise. It's going to be painful and and I appreciate council member Wilbur willing to stay here. Well, let's wrestle it out. I really believe that unless we have some specific areas where we can expand off leash capability in our community, we cannot make a good decision tonight. And so I recommend that we um extend the effective date. We can talk about what that should be. Um, I don't really want to keep working on this, but I I I much prefer that to making a bad decision, a tactical decision on a strategic issue. So, that's my view. I don't know if my council members um agree. Council member Shaq, thank you, Mayor. And I'm, you know, I'm fine going along with this, but I think we need a plan. I mean, I think it is unfair of us to say staff, hey, we don't like this. Well, now what? So maybe the plan is we need a special study session so that we can come up with a plan, but we need to do the work because we can't keep farming this out. You know, we have to do the work. And so whatever, you know, I I will vote yes to push this out, but I would feel a heck of a lot better if we had more of a plan and how what that looks like. I agree with you. I think it's our job and I apologize to staff for um dragging dragging it out but um and I agree with the mayor that um there's just more sort of higher level strategy um ident you know working with some of the criteria that that the working group and staff did successfully identify um to give us more options. So I agree with you. I think it should be us. Um, and it may be and it might be more than than one session, but I think we could probably come to some kind of highlevel agreement, you know, in a separate meeting. And council member Foster Bolton. Well, so can we part of the plan be that we need it we need it easier to to um report any incidents like and and I don't know how we can do that. and also maybe cameras. I mean that if if it's going to be uninforcable, we have to um do what we can to make it safe until then. And I think I mean I don't know but I think that should be part of our plan that Go ahead. Go ahead and council me. No, no, good. That's fine. Thank you. Um I completely agree and I think the other thing that you know I presented two things that didn't seem to land or weren't discussed which is one go with uh the actual Purgatory Park master plan recommended areas as a trial basis without hard barriers with soft barriers. I take it that's not going to fly tonight. If we are going to go with the uh you know interim plan for purgatory master park which was the interim plan which is what the park board mistakenly approved as a permanent plan. If we are going to go with that I would be supportive of that only if we exclude the high value natural resource areas i.e. the prairie and if there are significant uh signage compliance and enforcement mechanisms uh that means clear signage and mapping um even if it's temporary and I would really like to see you know community service officers or others patrolling just like other communities have um you know I don't know that we have any significantly less resources than Eden Prairie or you know some other of our surrounding cities. Um, supposedly we're a well-resourced city. Um, or maybe volunteers can do that. Um, and you know, let's collect the data. You know, I to be honest, this is a little bit frustrating for me because I've been pushing for data collection for over a year. Um, and here we are. we don't have any or don't have enough or we don't have the type that the the off leash dog um folks proponents seem to need which is actual physical proof and and a complaint system. So let's build that robust easy to use complaint system and I hope that you know it's not just when we're in a park um because people don't always report right when they're in the park because they're traumatized. they only report after they get home or they go to the police station and do it. We shouldn't tell them, "Sorry, you're not in the park. Um, we're not going to accept your report. We're not going to note it. We got to we need to have policies for um, you know, kind of compliance and complaints." So, that's how I could support this as an interim as an interim measure. But I still at the end of the day um really feel strongly that it's not going to be possible that the our best solution is to separate these users and to have a dedicated park area which can be significant. Um you know we can have that 39 acre park maybe is you know comparative to Long Lake. We can have something we have very low usage areas. Mooney Park, which was talked about in the park board meeting, you know, behind the civic center, there are plenty of areas. So, not everybody gets what they want. You know, in my view, this is how it should be. Like the mayor was saying, at the end of the day, you know, people want to be in purgatory and they don't want hard barriers. Well, I mean, in my view, you get one or the other. um that's what it's going to take at the end of the day because if you don't have hard barriers and you're having it intermixed throughout the park, there's not going to be compliance. But I'm willing to, you know, collect the data and the evidence to do that. But again, I would can can support this as an interim measure only if we take out the high value natural environment areas and we have compliance. Thank you. Anyone else? I um you know, I think we're going to need a motion. Somebody's going to have to have to create that. Mike or Mr. Funk, excuse me. Thank you, Mayor. Maybe she called you Mike. I mean, Mr. Funk, excuse me. No, no worries. It's um I go by Mike. So, thank you, Mayor Council. Maybe if it's if it's helpful just to summarize a little bit for you just for what I'm hearing. Maybe I'll first by try to bring some levity that I think I mentioned earlier. Parking and barking are always fun issues, aren't they? Always are. That was never too late to get a little chuckle out of that one. Okay. Um, so yeah, it is hard hard issue. I think just what I want to just um leave with you before you u maybe take a motion is to just highlight what your options are. Um, so so I'll just run through those and I'll look to our city attorney to correct me if I'm mistaken in these options because they are a little bit nuanced. Uh, what the city attorney mentioned earlier. One one option is to make a motion to delay the enforcement. Now the advantage of doing that is it does not have to be date specific. And I think what uh the city attorney referenced was it could be a motion to delay the enforcement of the current ordinance until a Minnotonka off leash strategy and guidance plan is adopted. So, so that is one option. Uh the other option is to we could do an ordinance this evening. Uh staff would recommend we just take a short break where we could craft an ordinance for your consideration. Uh that could be approved tonight and then come could come back at the next meeting. Now the challenge with doing that methodology is that you need to be date specific and so you would actually have to pick a date for a future uh implementation. So it provides you less flexibility. Uh a third option is a little bit nuanced from option two. Maybe it's more 2 A and 2B and that is you could bring an ordinance at the next meeting uh which would be the 19th I believe of May. Uh where you could do an ordinance on the 19th of May. you could do the subsequent or the second ordinance or the adoption of the ordinance then on June 9th. So you'd have a twoe gap in there where we just wouldn't do the enforcement but we could follow the methodology that way. Again with that option you would be have to be date specific and so if you do an ordinance you have less flexibility and you have to be date specific on when the new implementation would would need to occur. So we would want to ask staff your feedback on that tonight. Um or again I think the simplest um methodology and the mayor already alluded to that is to make a motion to in essence suspend the enforcement of the ordinance until again that Minnetonka offly strategy and ordinance plan is adopted. Now that all being said that one of the things that staff would want guidance on and I think council member Romelia has already alluded to some things that she's brought up and that is we'd want direction. So if you're going to for example suspend the enforcement, if that is option one, you'd go in that direction. That basically reverts back to our current ordinance. And so I think staff would suggest that we do come back to a study session to really kind of flush out the interim. What does that mean in terms of ordinance education because I think that's also a major component of this is how we educate the public even on an interim basis on what the rules are or not. So, I think we'd want to I would suggest we'd spend some time in an upcoming study session. You know, our study session schedule is full. Uh our next study session is dedicated to budgets. Uh but we do need to then find some time dedicated maybe it's a special meeting where we just dedicate some time to this where we can flush out even in the interim period what you would like to do in terms of enforcement, education, signage, um all of that. And then as you proceed with um the long-term strategy, what does that look like in terms of process? You I think I've heard a couple of you say you want to do it as a council. And then what does that look like in terms of timing? What outcomes are you looking for? If you're going to look for other areas in other parks, that just takes time to pull together designs. Um so there's a extort inorortant amount of time. I would I think it's safe to say probably a year plus to go through a deeper strategic discussion on this issue. So I think you're you're a year or more out uh by the time you get there and then again we'd want to flush out what do we do in the interim time frame. So I just leave you with those thoughts from staff perspective as you make your decision and stand for your questions. Thank you. Other comment um I'll go um I have a question council member Calbertt and then council member Romey. So let's say we we vote to uh suspend enforcement. What is the mechanism? How does it work to reinstate it? How does that work? [Applause] Mayor Worerome, Council Member, I I think they answer that question. So the motion what staff would recommend would be a motion to suspend the rules until I got to look at my language here. motion to suspend the rules until the council approves a Minnotonka offle strategy and guidance plan that gives you then flexibility whether that happens maybe in 6 months 12 months 18 months so it's so it's automatic there's not a separate motion that that was my correct okay all right and then I know um council member Shaq and then council member Romey council member Shaq I it my suggestion is and it as much as I hate to do this but it feels like we're not going to get a lot of clarity tonight. I think my suggestion would be to sorry table this issue have a special study session that starts at 4:00 p.m. on May 19th before our regular council meeting and build some consensus in with fresh minds. Mr. Nelson can have a proposed ordinance available if we decide to take that route. If we don't, we can we will open this issue back up on the 19th. We can also direct make a motion. We'll have two options, right? an ordinance or a motion to suspend enforcement, but we will have the ability to talk about it um in a maybe a more candid way with not at 11:00 at night and get to where we need to be in time. That's my suggestion. I don't know how everybody else feels about it. Um Caser Mey, I know you had a comment and you can comment to the question, too, but go ahead. I actually just had a question, but I'll also comment. I think that's a good idea. I just had a question. When we say the rules are suspended, I think what we're saying is that the um designation is delayed, but we're still going to enforce the rules as they stand now. Correct. Or are we not are we we're are we going to still have are is there going to be any difference in you know, we're still going to enforce off leash dog? I mean, it's not going to be like all of Purgatory Park is off leash now, or is that what we're saying? Functionally, all of Purgatory Park is off leash. It's it's the same as what is now. So, the the the picture to the right here is what is and would be until we enact um a new ordinance. So, there's no way to kind of protect any natural resource areas because we're just suspending enforcement. Can we still institute? Sorry. Um, is it still darn um still poss possible to kind of start implementing, you know, kind of putting out information on, you know, complaint systems, um, you know, kind of signage and that because it looks like we're not going anywhere fast on this. The mayor, Council Member Mey, I I think it depends on what action you take tonight. Um, council member Shaq has suggested having a special meeting at 4:00 on the 19th, right? I'm assuming that if that if that mo if that is a motion and that is approved uh I think staff would sit tight uh for 2 weeks until May 19th where the council I think as council member Shaq noted the council could talk about those options if on the 19th you as a council decide to right that's do one of those motions I think we'd want to talk through what that all looks like at that but we'd still be enforcing the rules as is right now correct yeah that's that's just what I Yeah, cuz it was kind of like we were not going to enforce rules and I think what we meant was that we're not going to enforce the new ordinance. We be to suspend enforcement of the new ordinance. Great. Got it. Nothing. So, we're currently enforcing the the current ordinance until May 19th unless directed to do otherwise. So, any any other comments or questions of clarification? I I mean my takeaway is that with Council Member Shack's recommendation, we get a brief additional bite at the apple on May 19th. We have a we have a city council meeting that starts uh at at 6 PM that night. So, we're only going to have a maximum of um of two hours, and that assumes we're all on a diet. Um, so, okay. All right. All good. But you can't eat it in council chambers, just so you know. Um, so, um, you know, and so I'm not convinced that two hours of additional discussion is going to get us to where we need to go, but I am supportive of the suggestion because obviously if we can move this forward and get where we need to get to um, in in two weeks, I I want to do that. But I think we may be in the same position at the end of that study session that we and and that we would be um now. But I don't know that and I'm I'm an optimist. So let's let's see what we can do. I kind of agree with you, mayor, and I you know I think this is I'll just be honest. I think that there were gaps in the data for the park board to make a decision. I think we had three very new park board members who did amazing work getting up to speed on the issue but felt really overwhelmed with the sort of monumental decision that they had to make with poor data. And I think that is part of the missing ingredient that actually to Council Member Rome's point, I know she's been advocating for that. And just walking around the park myself, you know, there there were things that I would like to know about what goes on there, what what's affected by what there, and uh I just feel that would apply to any area that we're considering. So, I am not sure we're going to get there before the meeting. I have an appointment that afternoon that I hope I can get back here at 4:00 for, but okay. I'm willing I I I mean, I'm willing to do whatever we need to do to keep the discussion going. I guess if I could clarify, my suggestion was just to use the time to get to be able to give staff instruction about what next steps are, what conditions, if any. you know, council member Romeli was suggested some things about, you know, possible conditions and and um data gathering and to really be instructive about how we're going to do that. So, I but I'm sensitive to people's schedules as well. So, and mayor, yes, that was my understanding too. Okay. is that it wasn't we weren't going to develop a plan on that day. We were going to I mean we weren't going to de you know figure out what areas of the park but there was going to be a plan in place. That's what we're deciding for those two hours. And also um part of that I I want to emphasize too is that data collection like however we could do it and easy um reporting like like by that time however I mean maybe it's just a website that we can go to just for the dog parks. I mean I I don't know but but that's what I thought she was saying as well. I I get it. That's good. Say that's what I was going to say when I So, but but let's let let let's be clear. So, what are we going to do at four o'clock on May 19th? Assuming that we can all be here? Council member Kley, I just had a question. Um, if we come back on May 19th, are we able to do the amendment amendment at that time and come up with a solid date for the next time we come back? Because that's what I was thinking that we're able to do. We so the the meeting at 4:00 would be a study session. We take no action there but we u develop agreement but then we have a regular meeting that starts at 6:00. We can take the action that we want to to you know to um extend however we do it date specific or um open-ended um because we have two methodologies or three methodologies available to us. Is that correct um Mr. Funk? Does that make all make sense? Council member Kley. Yeah. So we'll come back on um the 19th to discuss the three um concepts. Right. Right. Okay. Right. Okay. Well, this is this is a little muddy. Um but um would someone like to venture a motion? Council member Kley or Okay. Very good. Counley. Go for it. Come back on. to convene and come back at four o'clock on um May 19th. Table tonight. Yeah. So, I make a motion to table the um issue tonight and come back on May 19th at 4:00 um for a special study session. Is there anything else needed? Is that clear? Did you hear that? I'm sorry. Could you repeat that? Mayor and council. Thank you. Um we were we did a really nice job. Please do it again. Okay. So, I make a motion to table the issue for tonight and come back on May 19th at 4:00 um for a special study session. Mr. Nelson, any concerns? Mayor, Council Member Kley, I I I think that's sufficient. We can also look at in the interim period now. If there are other things we need to do by law, we'll be able to do those. We can cure those deficiencies, but but that making that clear on the record here now, I think is sufficient. Excellent. So, we have a motion by Council Kley. Is there a second? Council member Wilburn. Second. All right. A motion by Council Member Kley, a second by Council Member Wilburn. Um, Miss Faulk, would you please call roll? Foster Bolton? Yes. Shaq, yes. Wilburn, yes. Calbertt, yes. Yes. Kley, yes. We motion carries. Um, I do want to thank staff um for I want to thank Matt Kuma and um our natural resources staff and our parks and recreation staff. I mean, a lot of time and effort has gone into this. Um, it's difficult to be Solomon as uh as you've observed. We chose not to do it tonight. We're going to do it another night. But I'm hoping that, you know, I I hope you can see that this council is really agonizing over um a challenging issue, fixing an ordinance that was less than optimal um but at the same time doing it in a way that's fair and considers the many varied interests that um are impacting this. And uh it's not going to be easier um in two weeks either or however long we we take, but but I I appreciate everyone's indulgence. So, um, let's see. Motion carried, right? Or did we? Okay. So, all good. So, that takes us here. I have to look at my agenda and we That's item 14. Item 15, appointments and reappointments. We have none. So, item 16 is adjournment. Council member Wilbur, do you have a a motion? I move adjournment. And is there a second? Council member Calbert. I'll second. All right. We've got a motion by Council Member Wilburn and a second by Council Member Calbert. All in favor say I. I. We are adjourned. [Music] [Music]