knew this already, but today is Willie Nelson's 93rd birthday. And in tribute to Shotgun Willy's famous song, On the Road Again, we've arranged to have two public hearings, both related to cars. If you'd like to speak during community comment or a public hearing, please note the process has changed. All public commenters should state their name when beginning their remarks, but we no longer require commenters to state their address. Instead, please fill out a speaker registration card with your address and hand it to senior communications coordinator Lauren Sebanoler before speaking. [snorts] Excuse me. So, now we'll call the meeting to order and do a roll call, please. >> Commissioner Brennan here. Commissioner Hanimman >> here. >> Commissioner Felt >> here. Commissioner Day >> here. >> Commissioner Smith >> here. >> Commissioner Bennett >> here. >> Commissioner Padilla >> here. >> Chair Elker >> here. >> Oh, and Commissioner Nelson >> here. >> There he is. All right. Thank you, uh, Carrie. Before we approve the meeting agenda and the meeting minutes, I wanted to just take a minute to correct an omission from our April 15th meeting. Uh we have a new planning commissioner, uh Joe, and already become so comfortable with his presence through work sessions that I neglected to give him an opportunity to introduce himself last time. So Joe, would you just uh tell Adina who you are? >> Yeah, hello Edina. Uh uh lived here for 4 and a half years, two kids, six and four. Uh general contractor by trade. Uh and a and an interest in knowing what's uh going on in our backyard. So happy to be here. >> Glad I got selected. >> Welcome. >> All right. Is there a motion to approve the meeting agenda for tonight's meeting? >> I need to make a correction to Oh, sorry. The agenda. My bad. >> Yes. Motion. Is there a second? [snorts] >> Second. >> All right. There's a motion and a second to approve tonight's meeting agenda. We'll have a roll call vote, please. >> Commissioner Brennan, >> I. >> Commissioner Haniman, >> I. >> Commissioner Feld, >> I. >> Commissioner Day, >> I. >> Commissioner Smith, >> I. >> Commissioner Bennett, >> I. >> Commissioner Padilla, >> I. >> Commissioner Nelson, >> I. >> Chair Elky, >> I. Uh next is there a motion to approve the meeting minutes from April April 15, 2026 and I believe there may be an amendment. >> Yes, this is need to amend the previous meeting minutes. Uh I was not in attendance at the last meeting [snorts] and I'm noted here multiple times in roll call votes is for I votes. So should probably just correct that. >> We can make that correction. >> Okay. >> So is there a motion to approve the minutes with that correction? Move to approve. >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Brennan, >> I. >> Commissioner Hanimman, >> I. >> Commissioner Felt, >> I. >> Commissioner Day. >> Hi. >> Commissioner Smith, >> I. >> Commissioner Bennett, >> I. >> Commissioner Pia, >> I. >> Commissioner Nelson, >> I. >> Chair Elky. >> I. Now we'll move to uh community comment. We'll now hear from residents in person who would like to speak about something not on tonight's agenda or scheduled for a future public hearing. You may speak for up to three minutes. After giving your speaker speaker registration card to Lauren and stating your full name for the record, the green light at your podium will turn on. When you have 30 seconds remaining, the yellow light will turn on and when you're out of time, the red light will turn on. Is there anyone here who would like to provide community comment? Seeing none. Oh, is there one? Yes, please come to a podium. Wait for the public. >> Okay. Yeah. You wait for the >> Yeah. For the public hearing for the subject that you'd like to talk about. >> Okay. So, we now turn to public hearing. The first public hearing has to do with an ordinance amendment to the parking requirements at 50th in France. And Addison Lewis will introduce the subject for us. item is for a proposed ordinance amendment to the parking regulations at 50th in France. Uh, currently section 36-1312 of the Adina zoning ordinance allows commercial properties at 50th and France to rely on the public ramps to satisfy their parking requirement up to a floor area ratio or an F of one. uh buildings that exceed an F of one must provide additional parking for the square footage exceeding an F of one. Um so this requirement goes back to 1978. It was viewed as a way to distribute the available parking uh in the public ramps in a way that was fair to all the property owners. And you probably remember that last fall we had a variance requested from this provision for u for a restaurant, the Americana restaurant at 5036 France Avenue to allow F up to 1.2 2 without providing any additional parking. And that variance was approved and it was strongly supported by the community including the uh 50th and France business district. And so as a result, the city council asked staff to look into amending the zoning code um in a way that would allow other property owners to have that same opportunity to um do modest expansions. And so, um, staff took some time to analyze the parking utilization of the three ramps as well as the potential for expansion, uh, and redevelopment within the district. And, um, as a result, we're recommending that the amount of F allowed before additional parking is required be increased from 1 to 1.25. Um, and that recommendation is based on a few reasons. So, uh, number one, not all properties in the district are going to want to expand up to the maximum F. Um you can see in the table that's provided in your packet there's a number of properties that are not built up to the maximum today and we've also identified a number of parcels that we think are um unlikely to expand just due to site constraints. Um so looking at the remaining parcels um the most most of the potential for additional commercial square footage to be added in the district [snorts] is attributed to just two properties. It's the US Bank site and the Luns and Berley site. And you know, these two part properties are not likely to add the maximum amount of commercial square footage um without adding additional parking. That would be I think for uh the US Bank almost 100,000 square feet of commercial square footage. Um they're not likely to do that without providing any additional parking because um their investors will require proof of adequate parking before adding that much commercial square footage. Um, you know, for example, we saw with the Nolan Mains project that added 139 public parking stalls. Um, and that only has a commercial F of point.4. Um, with some other recent developments we've seen such as the the Opus headquarters just over here and the Macy's furniture redevelopment, um, developers have been proposing more parking than even the city's code is requiring. Um number three is because um all properties in the district are not going to redevelop at the same time and redevelopment of any individual property will not use up all the remaining parking capacity. Um if there is significant redevelopment, the city can re-evaluate the parking situation um and always change the code again in the future. Um so you may ask why 1.25? Why not go even higher to 1.5? And we did uh look at that. We think that uh we probably could and would probably be fine for the reasons that I stated. Um but you know this is essentially a 25% increase in the amount of F that they're allowed without providing any additional parking. So we think this is a significant change. Um this is also um enough of a change that it would have negated the need for um the variance for Americana which was kind of what triggered this in the first place. So it would allow other properties in the district to do kind of those similar modest expansions. Um, as far as outreach, I did meet with the executive director of the 50th and France business association. She had some communication with the businesses. We also sent a letter to all of the property owners in the district. Um, I did not get any comments um nor did we get any on better together. So, I think uh an actual restaurant expansion is more exciting than a a change to the zoning code. So, um didn't get any feedback, but with that uh we are recommending um approval of the ordinance as proposed. and I'd be happy to take any questions. >> Any questions for Addison? >> That's it. >> Thank you, Addison, for the presentation. If a business owner wanted to create more parking, where would it go? >> Yeah, and that's why they have a challenge, right? that's why they're allowed to park on um in the ramps is because a lot of the properties there do not have the ability to add that or they they don't have the ability to expand and add additional parking. Um and so that's why this F limit is really kind of a cap on how much they can develop because they most of those properties don't have room to add parking unless they were to you know demolish some some portion of the building. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else? Mayorweather, >> just a comment and I appreciate the F table [clears throat] um quite a bit. That made this very easy to understand and notice that um at the peak hours now there are 388 spots open right around that. >> That's correct. Yep. On a on an average day about 388 stalls at the time of peak demand are still available. >> Okay. and about 128 in in the south ramp. >> Mhm. >> Um which is where a lot of our restaurants are. I'm still advocating. I'm just It's not necessarily a question, but I'm advocating for using a couple of parking spaces for bicycle. >> Yep. >> Because I think we could use a few more bicycle. >> Yeah. I know that um Andrew Scipion, our transportation planner, is working with the business association on additional bike parking and they're still figuring out the locations and I think those are I think planned to be installed this this year. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anyone else? Paul, I can't see you, so I'm going to count on you to chime in if you have a question from the virtual world. This is >> I do have no no questions. Thank you. >> All right. Thanks, Paul. All right, this is a public hearing, so we will now hear from residents who would like to provide comment either in person or by phone. For those who may be on the phone, if you want to provide comment, please call 312-5358110 and enter access code 2863 729 2903 followed by the password 5454. Then press star three on your telephone keypad to indicate you would like to speak. To provide comment in person, please first give your speaker registration card to Lauren. All speakers must state their full name. Then you'll have three minutes to speak. And the yellow light is your warning that you have 30 seconds left. Is there anyone here in person who would like to provide com public comment? Yes, please come on up. Sweet. Yep. My name is Michael Jaring and uh so uh now I I'm here to comment on the 616 Vernon uh proposement. Um so as a neighborhood res resident I do Oh, sorry. >> That's the next public hearing. Sorry to keep getting you sideways, but wait. Well, that subject will come up after this subject is complete. >> Yes. Sorry. Fair enough. Is >> there anyone who'd like to talk about make a comment on the 50th and France parking? There anyone on the line? >> There's nobody on the line and I believe it is safe to proceed. >> Okay. So, is there a motion to close the public hearing? >> Motion to close. >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Brennan. >> I. >> Commissioner Hanimman. >> I. >> Commissioner Felt. >> I. >> Commissioner Day. >> Hi. >> Commissioner Smith. >> I. >> Commissioner Bennett. >> I. >> Commissioner Padilla. I need to abstain because I need to recuse myself from this vote. So I'm abstaining >> commission just to close the public close. Sorry. >> Okay. But I'm also um need to recuse myself from the discussion in the vote. >> Okay. >> But I'm fine to close the public hearing. >> Commissioner Nelson. >> I chair Alire. Hi. So, now's the chance for the planning commission to ask any other questions they may have or to provide their own perspective on this particular ordinance. Who'd like to get us started? Jimmy. >> Yeah. Just want to thank uh Addison. That's a great presentation. That summed it all up really nice. I really don't have anything to add. I just thought that really spoke to the the facts of the matter real well. >> Anyone else? >> I agree. I really appreciated the F table. It seems like [snorts] three out of four, if I have the ratio right, three out of four um or 47s and 37s of the properties or out of seven are greater than the F of 1.25 and three out of seven are less than the 1.25. So it's pretty evenly split right now. So it seems like half the properties are already taking advantage of a greater F ratio than the 1.0. I know. >> So I agree with this ordinance change. >> All right. Seeing no other comments, I think the only thing that I would add is I think it was great presentation, Addison. Thank you. Very clear. Um I guess my only concern about it is that we might not be going far enough, but I think it's definitely a step in the right direction. The F table was great if you eliminate um the properties that already have big surface parking like Luns or Luns bys and the US Bank and the eliminate the gray ones. The average of that set is 1.5 as it is today. So I think you could probably make an argument for 1.5, but it feels good to be making a step in the right direction. So with that, is there a motion to approve the ordinance? Amendment to parking requirements at 50th in France. >> Motion to approve. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Brennan, >> I. >> Commissioner Henman, >> Commissioner Felt, >> I. >> Commissioner Day, >> I. >> Commissioner Smith, >> I. >> Commissioner Bennett, >> I. >> Commissioner Padilla, >> abstain. >> Commissioner Nelson, >> I. >> Chair Elk, >> I. [snorts] So that amendment will pass. Now we move on to our second public hearing, a comprehensive plan amendment site plan and variances for 616 Vernon uh for an EV charging station. This is a project that uh we had a sketch plan review I believe not so long ago and uh looks like Carrie will introduce the subject for us this evening. Okay. Thank you, chair, members of the commission. As mentioned, this is the site that you're familiar with. You did a sketch plan review not too long ago, and we've had three development proposals in the last oh, three, four years that have not gone forward. Uh the proposal this evening is as mentioned at 616 Vernon Avenue and the proposal is for an EV charging station. This site as shown on the screen here is zoned PCD4 planned commercial district in which gas stations auto repair are uh permitted use in that district. The site is guided in our comprehensive plan for medium density residential. So we have a conflict between the comprehensive plan and the zoning ordinance. It it mirrors the property to the west which is medium density residential. That designation has been in place since about 1980 going back um in our comprehensive plans. Here is a look at the uh proposal. This is a a night image of what the project could look like. So again, it's just a remodel of the existing building. They would have inside a convenience store that would be self-mated. It would [snorts] be um not open to the public 24 hours a day. Uh between the hours of 9 and 6 9 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. it would be open. Any hours beyond that, you need a QR code to get in. So there would be access 24 hours. As you can see, the proposed canopies are the lower canopies. We talked about that at the sketch plan. um to emit less light to the adjacent properties. Uh you're seeing some of the proposed landscaping. There would be a boulevard style sidewalk. There would be seven uh charging stations on the site. There would be the five that you're seeing and then three on the south lot line. Here's a look at the floor plan. Oh, just to to go back, um there wouldn't be an employee on the site. they would contract with a security uh company that there would be security cameras set up and would be monitored that way. They have said if that's a problem, they would uh have on-site staff in the future, but they're not anticipating a problem. The site would be cleaned daily with a cleaning service. So, again on the screen is the floor plan. You can see the uh the market. There would be restrooms and a lounge area. So this request requires a comprehensive guide plan change uh to reguide the site from that medium density residential designation to neighborhood node and again the PCD zoning district. Um the use would be allowed. Site plan review is also requested and there are multiple variances and I'll go through uh those in a little more detail but a lot of them are for existing conditions as they're resurfacing the existing parking lot. They [snorts] are adding um you know a trash enclosure in the front, mechanical equipment. Those require a variance. We'll take a look at a an image that shows those specific variances. There's also a patio on the north side of the building that requires a variance as well. So the proposed guiding is for neighborhood node and this graphic here highlights the existing neighborhood nodes in the city. This is our smallest land use category in the comprehensive plan. It's 44th in France area, 54th in France. There are two gas stations within that 54th in France area. Uh Valley View and Wooddale, there used to be a gas station there, now turned into the the a restaurant down at 70th in Cahill. Uh there was a a gas station there. It's turned into an auto repair. We take a look at this slide. This is the pyramid of discretion that was put together by the League of Minnesota Cities just to give the planning commission an idea of how much discretion you have here. Because there's a comprehensive plan amendment, we do have discretion to approve or deny the request. Part of it is, you know, this is the city's doing that we don't have the zoning synced up with the comprehensive plan. You know, if those two did sync and it was a just a uh a site plan review with the variance, we would be up in this area here for the amount of discretion. You know, variances we do have have some discretion. [snorts] Here is a look at the site plan. Um this also shows proposed landscaping along the north lot line. This is the patio area north of the building. the mechanical equipment and trash. Uh the um where the trash would exterior trash would be located. You can see the uh the proposed charging station. So it's it's reusing basically the existing site. They would be installing boulevard style sidewalk along Vernon for our bike and pedestrian plan. So now I'll just run through some quick images. Um a day daylight image uh of the same one that we saw the night vision or the night view. You can see the patio there to the north. This is the mechanical area and the trash enclosure would be well screened with the fencing and landscaping. This is a look from the residential area to the north. So we're looking into the site. You can see the proposed fencing and some of the trees uh located outside of the fencing. This is a look from Vernon. I I would note that the signage that's shown here likely doesn't meet our zoning ordinance. Uh there's no variances requested for the signage. They've indicated that they would meet all of our signage regulations as part of a a building permit should the project get approved. Uh lighting has come up. you may have noticed in the um some of the better together feedback uh concerns about lighting. So what's on the screen here is a phototric plan that demonstrates compliance with our uh city code. So the lumens along the north lot line would roughly be would be zero. Our code allows 0.5 and along a street 1.0 is allowed by code. So the lighting would be code compliant. There's also been some concern about from the feedback at better together about noise generated that would be subject to our noise ordinance which mirrors state statute. So if there's any noise complaints um staff has a noise monitor and we can monitor that and make sure that it is compliant. Uh the applicants are confident that noise would not be an issue. City Hall has some charging stations outside here. At least when I walk by, I don't notice a noise. Um but that would be covered again by city code and state statute. So this graphic demonstrates kind of the difficulty of the site. The triangle represents the buildable area on the site and the boxes with the numbers represent the variances that are requested, the specific setbacks. So the patio here on the north would have a two-foot setback. There's an existing parking strip along here that has a zero foot setback. they would maintain that same setback and same with the with the canopy itself. [snorts] A 10-ft setback would be required from Vernon or the variance. Uh the mechanical equipment also requires a variance. A 13oot setback is proposed. And the sixes and twos here, city code requires a 10-ft strip sidewalk essentially along the building that separates the parking area. That's an existing condition and they would maintain that. Primary issues for consideration um of the planning commission is is the comprehensive plan amendment reasonable and are the proposed variances justify and do they meet the criteria? Uh staff believes the comprehensive plan is reasonable. The project uh the subject property has been used as a commercial site with proper zoning for over 50 years. Previously, there was a gas station on the site um and auto repair, so it's been a permitted use. Uh the [snorts] proposed amendment is reasonable uh given the consistency of the proposed use with those past uses. Um and the comprehensive plan amendment would bring the site into compliance with the zoning. Uh the existing PCD4, as I mentioned, allows automobile service centers, gas stations, and car washes. The proposed neighborhood node uh would accommodate smallcale commercial use which uh this is [snorts] um again this is a category where our gas stations are located in the city and the pro proposed use would be supported by existing roads. The number of vehicle trips to the site uh would be minimal. Uh traffic study was done by Stantech. Ed Terhar is on the call with us this evening should any questions come up in regard to traffic. In regards to the variance, the variances again we believe that those are justified [snorts] uh for the following reasons. Uh the existing use again on the site um has been commercial for over 50 years. The [snorts] closest residential adjacent structure would be well screened uh by the proposed fencing and landscaping. Practical difficulties include the small size of the lot, the irregular shape, you know, that small little triangular air. Basically, you couldn't really build anything on the site without the need for a variance. Um, and again, that the fencing and landscaping would minimize impacts on the adjacent residential neighborhood. Um, and the proposal would be an improvement over the existing uh conditions. the the site has been basically vacant for the last well at least two years. So with that uh staff is recommending approval of both the comprehensive plan amendment the site plan and the variances subject to the findings and conditions that are outlined in the staff report. Um we have included because you do have discretion to approve or deny there is an alternative for denial with findings should the planning commission choose to go that route. So with that, I will stop. The uh applicants are eager to make their presentation as well and then we can all answer questions at the end. So if it's okay with the chair and planning commission, I'll turn it over to the applicant for their presentation. >> That's great. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Appreciate. >> Uh thanks Carrie. um would just like to express my appreciation for him. He's been extremely helpful uh through this whole process and hopefully makes my job here tonight a bit easier. Um you know, I really just going to kind of hit on a lot of the same points that uh he hit on and just expand a little. Uh so my name is Declan Wilkerson. Uh I'm the lead site designer uh with Ayanna. Um, and for those of you who have not heard about who we are and what we do, uh, we are a joint venture uh, that was started between eight of the largest auto manufacturers in the world. Um, with a singular vision to come together and create a nationwide charging network uh, that focuses on putting the driver first. Uh, we aim to give our drivers the coverage they need, reliability that they deserve, and the amenities that they crave. Uh this graphic is honestly outdated by now but shows you know kind of just a visual representation of where we have sites across the country and where we're expanding to. Um I'll touch on that in the next slide. As Carrie said we are proposing seven uh 400 kilowatt um fast charging units here uh which would produce 14 EV charging bays um two of which would be ADA accessible I believe. Um, we'll also be proposing in the building, uh, restrooms, miniature sea store, uh, Wi-Fi capabilities, mini canopies as as you saw over each of the charging units, um, and then 24/7 monitored security. Um, and then nationwide connectivity. Um we believe that this is a very you know unique opportunity for the city of Adina um to kind of plug into our network um of about 108 sites live across the country today um which equates to about 950 plus um charging bays across the country. Other areas in Minnesota um that already have IANA rechargery stations include Leno Lakes, Brooklyn Park, Oakdale, and White Bear Lake. Um, but I'd like to point out this one is more of a uh kind of like a flagship store for us um as opposed to a standard um standard site like the other ones. So, as you saw, um this is kind of just a site plan overview. Um in particular, I believe this is our landscape plan. Um which as Carrie pointed out, shows the general site improvements, um landscaping, um sidewalk, um and the overall kind of layout of what we're trying to do. Um, so to expand on that a little bit more, um, in particular the charging units. We use the Alpatronic Hick 400, um, which are some of, if not the best EV charging units on the market. Um, they provide very fast and very reliable, um, you know, charging capacity for electric vehicles. Um, and we, our units are set up in such a way that they service pretty much any electric vehicle on the road. So, as I mentioned before, we're founded by eight, you know, the largest audio manufacturers in the world. Um, so we service cars with that plug type, but we also service, you know, Teslas that have the the different plug type. Um, and then, you know, as I touched on the canopies, as you can see in this um this rendering, this is not a sight specific rendering I'd like to point out. It's just one for visual purposes. Um, but you can see how that surfboard style canopy kind of comes out um at an angle. So the lighting will be kind of angled away from um you know the residential areas um and onto the cars and it you know kind of just covers the the charger and you know the individual that is that is utilizing the charger at the time. Um and these ones we are going to equip with an auto dimming feature. Um, so during, you know, dark hours, I believe, I think we said 8:00 p.m., 8 or 9:00 p.m., um, maybe 7, whatever, you know, we have to work with with you guys to kind of find that sweet spot. You know, those chargers, uh, the lights above the chargers will dim down and only become active, you know, if a car pulls up late at night and kind of parks in one of those stalls, you know, it'll it'll increase, um, in lighting, but not to the full 100%. Um, and you know, kind of like Carrie touched on, the lighting design will be compliant with the city ordinance in section 36-126. Um, and it will not exceed the foot candle count on any property line. Uh, we believe that the impact to the surrounding area will be minimal. Um, you know, this ion chargery, uh, we pride ourselves on, you know, what we like to call ion speed, which is getting things done quickly. Um, so this would be, you know, no different. we'd come out and, you know, if approved, aim to build this site quickly and efficiently um with minimal impact to the surrounding environment. Um we would connect to the community as mentioned uh by Carrie and touched on in other meetings. Uh we will be proposing sidewalks um not only for pedestrians but for cyclists too. Um, and then I believe that one's on Vernonav. And then a new sidewalk along Eden Prairie Road for neighborhood connection um was in the proposal as well. And then landscaping again like he touched on and as seen in those renders uh will adhere to the city city's code minimum um which is also in section 36 of the code of ordinances. Uh again, here's a picture. you know, we just saw um and like Carrie touched on, the signage that you see is for, you know, visual representation. Um it's what we'd like to do, but obviously we will comply with, you know, signage requirements that uh the city of Adina may have. Um you know, screening adequate screening uh from the the main road there um just to kind of help the site blend in a little bit more. Um here's that angle again from the the opposite side coming in and the same one at night. And you can see that the lighting here is is dim and it's angled away from the the surrounding neighborhood. So hopefully, you know, we won't see any bleed kind of over that fence and beyond those trees. Um and then just a again a rendered aerial view that shows the general layout, sidewalk connection points. Um you know, ADA path of travel to the building. Um, again, the building itself, we just looked at this little plan, but we're proposing a lounge area, um, that's open, you know, it's, we call it the, you know, the customer lounge, driver's lounge, whatever, whatever fits. Um, but it wouldn't, in this case, be just for Ionic customers. It actually never is. It's it's really for anyone who wants to use it. Um, some of our projects have, you know, different cities have required different things where it is only accessible by QR code at all hours of the day. You know, scanner on your phone, you get a text, you put in your email or whatever, and then, you know, you get access to unlock the doors. Um, that would be for the main points of entry as well as the restrooms. Um, it really is just kind of AHJ dependent. We're we're very flexible on that front. So, I believe what we propose is that during normal business hours, the entire building is, you know, unlocked. um you know, drivers, you know, customers of Ayana, but also to the public. Um you know, joggers or bikers on the trail who might need to use a restroom or um stop in and get like a water refill a water bottle. Um we have a little lounge area there that could be used by the public for, you know, like a quiet space. Like I said, we provide free Wi-Fi. Um so if people want to come, you know, get work done outside of the house, they'd be more than welcome to. And then the convenience store aspect, um which is we'll get into a little bit later. this this element of the building would be accessible only by QR code and that's primarily because you know you need a form of payment um you know to access the store as Carrie mentioned the site is fully autonomous um the sea store element is powered by Amazon's just walk out technology um which is you know kind of up and coming new trending but essentially what it is is you know you walk in one door you either scan a QR code and input your payment info or you tap your card Um or at some some places, you know, we have one out in in Garner, North Carolina, where you can even scan your palm and it lets you in and you it's got cameras all over the ceiling that track your motions and you pick up your items and you walk out the other door and you're charged for it on your way out. So, with that in mind, the store would be controlled by QR um or you know, you would need some sort of payment method, but that's just due to the nature of um that you're buying something. Not necessarily that we want to keep people out. It's just kind of the way that Amazon runs their their business. Um, these are there's some black and white elevations um of what we're proposing and then, you know, some more architectural kind of colored elevations. Again, with the signage graphic representation, we are um we will make sure that all signage aligns with what you guys require. Um, and then the building, like I said, we just touched on the Amazon just walk out technology. Um it's completely autonomous and would be open 24/7. Um so even after hours, you know, when the rest of the building kind of locks, um that's that's when the entire building, you know, sea store and lounge included would be you would need a QR code um scan to access that. Um but during normal hours, which I think we wrote there, 9:00 a.m. to 6 p.m. again, free access u for customers and for the public. Um and we are proposing the addition of a coffee niche um a water fountain station and a few arcade games that we deploy um and have deployed in a couple of other uh locations just for again drivers public something do other car charges. Um and then these are just a couple of images that kind of reference similar projects. So this is in Apex, North Carolina, one of our very first sites that we got live. Uh this gas station was about 100 years old. Um, and we did the very same thing, which is retrofit the interior of the building. Um, we actually partnered, you'll see the, uh, the food truck um, trailer. They actually own and operate a piece of the interior of the building and then have their food truck outside. Um, and then the other half of the building is is restrooms, lounge, vending, and then our chargers are kind of behind. Here's a look um, kind of inside looking out. You can see through the picture window there. Uh, the canopy in the background with our charging units. Um and then again we provide you know seating and work area. Um there's a little arcade game in the in the corner. And then we also provided a few uh quiet conference work rooms um in this particular project. This is one where we actually utilized the the Amazon Just Walkout Market. This is in Garner, North Carolina, the one that I referenced before. Again, another old gas station that was retrofit um for our needs. And then here's an interior shot of uh what what we would be going for with the customer lounge area. And then you can see the uh the mini sea store there in the back. A couple just operational details. Again, 24/7 surveillance that is done through interior and exterior cameras. Uh we contract a security company, an off-site security company to kind of monitor um everything 247 um and kind of just generate reports on, you know, potential site activity that might not be desirable. Um, and if for some reason that you know we needed to escalate from off-site security, we could contract a third party security um, you know, company to come kind of patrol the site regularly and um, you know, hopefully keep any any um, undesirable behavior to a to a minimum. But we haven't had to do that at any of our sites up to this point. I'd also like to point out if somebody, you know, was trying to access the building, you know, they got their they aren't in an eye on a customer and they're not necessarily a resident looking to just utilize the building for something good. If they scan their QR code and gain access to the building and, you know, start acting a fool and, for lack of a better term, we we do have the ability to blacklist their phone. you know, we can go into our records and see when that um individual scanned the QR code, you know, who they were um and just kind of blacklist their phone so that that device would not be able to access the building again. Um again, that kind of bleeds straight into access control. Um we've touched on that. And then upkeep, we will hire a local facilities maintenance contractor um to clean the building um daily, remove trash um from the trash enclosure and you know trash bins around near the chargers um and they will also be generating you know kind of a formal report back to us um so that we we can really keep tabs on exactly what's going on um with the project. And then you know to close out just a couple other um reference reference images for you guys. This is a site in Houston, Texas. One of our most popular. Um, this is a more standard site. A couple of these we have around Minnesota and those places I named earlier. Um, with our canopy over the top. And then, you know, another standard site. I believe this is in Fra, Colorado. Um, yeah, besides that, I do not have any other slides. So, thank you for your time. >> Thanks for the presentation. Are there any questions for staff or for the applicant? Claire, >> thank you very much. Uh Carrie, I have um two questions, I guess, for you. Um conceptually, can we amend the comp plan with or without approving this particular project or do they inherently have to go together? >> They wouldn't have to. If we don't amend the comprehensive plan, it it continues to be in conflict with one another, >> um we should get them to sync up. The Met Council uh requires that uh but they don't absolutely have to. I did run that by the city attorney. >> Okay. Um given the parcel has had um a lot of options and feedback uh over the various iterations, I guess how would you advise us to think about both um the lease versus ownership structure and that some of the business i.e. the market piece is um uh beyond what we here on planning can look at, but it is one of the drivers of why this proposal is receiving um the positive comments that it is. >> If I followed that right, um yeah, you it's not really the commission's perview whether they lease own. We're just looking at the use itself, >> but the use interior, all the comments in better together that I read that were supportive of the project were mentioned the market, the interior market. So, if there's a universe where you can approve a project and then inside the building on day two becomes used differently. So, as I think about uh the variances and the comp plan amendment, I'm sort of torn a little bit that part of what the neighbors who've been very vocal against other projects, what they're supporting here is something that is beyond the conversation of the land use, if that makes sense. in terms of regulating what's inside the building. >> Just that the things that have been compliant that have come before have been poorly received, but much of [clears throat] the positive reception of this is something that no one at the city can control on day two. So that's sort of where I'm struggling. that to get the amendments to give the comp to I'm sorry to approve the variances to approve the comp plan for this project on its own doesn't feel responsive necessarily to the neighbors I if I'm following so the concern is if we amend the comprehensive plan to neighborhood node could someone come in and do a restaurant >> no they would have to reszone the site because a restaurant is not allowed in the PC BCD4 zoning district only this use with that internal convenience store. Yeah. So if they wanted to change the use into a restaurant, they would have to come back for a reasonzoning and the city has discretion whether to approve or deny that. >> Y >> thank you for your presentation and the changes in the plan. I really appreciate them. I appreciate the sidewalks on there and the sidewalk in the back. Um, I wanted to ask, you said clean daily and the trash clean daily. They go through the site, too. >> Mhm. Yes, ma'am. That's right. >> Okay. And pick up any trash that might be around? >> Absolutely. >> Okay. So, the evergreens in front um look like they're quite tall. >> And I appreciate the screening of the headlights. Um, but my suggestion, would you be a minimal if they were only like 54 in tall, 4 and 1/2 ft? I do think it'd be good to see if people were back there, >> but that it screens headlights. >> Sure. Uh, yeah, honestly, the height of that vegetation we would we would absolutely be open to >> altering. Um, yeah, without a doubt, we could do that. >> Okay. And I'd be interested if anybody else feels that way, too. Um, I would have appreciated evergreens on the north side of the fence, but I don't think they're going to get enough light on the north side of that fence. Um, I'm wondering if it there's no fence variance requ um request on this. And that fence is six feet tall. >> Uh, yes, ma'am. Give or take. So here, and I appreciate the canopies, too, with the wraparound lights and the dimming feature. Um, and this is my take on LED lights. Even if there's zero at the property light at the property line, you can still see them. Like so that for the residences across the street, if the deciduous trees don't have their leaves in the winter, the back side of it is about 12 feet tall. the front side of the canopy is 14t tall. I'm guessing they might still see a little light. >> Yeah, I think that's a fair comment. And we can I mean we can look into ways to we can make the fence taller. Um we could, you know, thicken the vegetation that's back there. Like we're we're open to ways to fixing that. >> Okay, that's what that's what I'm wondering. Maybe someone else has some comments about those things, too. But those are Melanie. I even appreciate the sidewalk in the back >> helps neighborhoods. So, I'm I'm >> other questions. Joe, >> um, hi. Thank you. Do you have any information on average uh charges per day for a a site this size and even compared to a typical gas station, I guess? >> Yeah, sure. Uh, great question. I think now again the average is always fluctuating just because we get so many sites live and they're all different sizes, different amount of bays, but the typically the number that we work with is about 10 per bay per day roughly. Um so I guess that would equate to at max absolute max capacity 140 cars in and out a day. Um, but typically we again it it completely depends on just kind of environmental factors where the you know where the site's located, you know, how how much traffic the area gets in general. Um, but yeah, we could we could work with the number 10. >> And I'm I'm no expert, but I imagine that's significantly less than a gas station. >> Absolutely. At this point in time, for sure. Thanks. For sure. Anyone on this side? Bonnie, >> uh, thank you for the presentation and your accommodations to the suggestions that we made last time. So, um, that was great. You heard us and, uh, that's great. Um, how many cameras are you going to have? >> It's a great question. >> That's a great question. Again, um, we're flexible. I I would imagine, you know, if we're not counting the cameras that are included in, you know, the Amazon Sea store area, three, maybe four inside the building, um, one maybe two on the on the exterior corners. Um, and then we could always look into putting a security camera on each of the canopies itself as well. >> What do you how do you do it in all of your other stations? Um, again, it depends on a site with a canopy. Um, we we can integrate security canopies or security cameras onto the canopy. Um, if it was like that picture I showed, that big massive canopy, they're kind of just spread out equally. Um, but sites with the building, yeah, it really is just kind of wherever is needed, wherever is needed, the most trafficked areas, um, exterior corners, things like that. So, >> um, and generally speaking, what kind of maintenance do the charging stations require? >> Typically, little to none. Um, you know, I know of instances in the past where, you know, a charger's gone down and, you know, we have to get somebody from Alpatronic to go out there and service it and they're very quick, very responsive to get out there and do it. Um, but typically not much at all. Not much at all. Um, and is the uh parking or the the in in entrance and exit going to be one way so that the eastern driveway will be entrance and the western driveway will be an exit. >> I believe we were working with the idea of entering and exiting from both points. Um, is that correct? >> Out both ways, right? in and out both ways. Yeah, I remember that's what I what I um had had talked about the first time, but if that's an issue again, always open to >> I think that that's going to be um a a challenge. Um so with the limited amount of space that you have in turning around and things like that and the flow of traffic. So >> um >> those are my questions. Thanks. >> Other questions? I I do have a number of them if >> Okay. Okay. Paul, go go go ahead Paul. >> Yep. Um, initially the concerns were lighting and signage and I I think those will be both be taken care of via the permitting process. It sounded like Carrie mentioned that at least on the sighting uh the signage and the lighting is uh appears to have gotten better from the the last uh iteration. So, I appreciate that. One question. Uh, and I don't know if this is Carrie or what, but the sidewalk, at least along Vernon, seemed like it went so far and then it didn't make it down to the corner. I don't know. Is it is it will the sidewalk tie in with any other sidewalk or is it just a lone lone wolf out there right now? >> Yeah, I believe it would. Yeah, the idea is eventually it would tie to something, but um at this point, no. >> Right. >> Okay. I might I mean I might ask that either the city or or the the applicant would at least go to the corner, tie into the there is a it looks like there's a sidewalk coming from the other side, but maybe that's their own sidewalk on that where it comes down to a a point. I think we I think we had um I remember seeing an iteration of drawings where we did connect on the corner. I believe that was the intent, but we'll you know we can make sure to take care of that. No problem. >> Yeah. Another question relating to the sea store that the stocking of the sea store is that done by Amazon or who how often does that occur and I guess who does it? I believe it is Amazon um if not Amazon directly one of their third party you know contractors um and I believe that's done weekly um at least um and if it's trafficked enough where it needs to be more then you know we can we can tick that up and do it more often. >> Yeah, I imagine since it's all autonomous it'll it'll they'll know when when it's getting light and needs to be restocked. But anyway, uh just wondering again adding a little bit of traffic but probably not much throughout the week. Um and the last thing is is more about the the concerns that were raised uh on better together and some of the other uh notes we got regarding uh loitering on the site um ride share services that might pull up charge and and just sit there all day long. Um, I have noticed that that that does that type of activity kind of occurs over at the park at 50th and Wooddale at least in the morning hours. And I don't know how Carrie more so this is for Carrie. How is that monitored? And is that is there a loitering I I should know more about it, but is there a loitering uh anything to address loitering if it if it becomes an issue in the city and or on the site? >> On this site, I I suppose it's possible you could recommend a condition. Um I I don't know um if that's a police issue, you know, if there's a concern, contact the police and and they would enforce that. I drive by that park on on 50th the one um I I I just am failing on the name of the park but down at 50th and in Wooddale and every morning there's you know three or four cars sitting there. So again, I can kind of see the concern of neighbors having people loiter all day, but um I guess is there a limit to the time or is there is there a loitering ordinance in the city or anything like that where you can't I mean somebody goes there at 8:00 in the morning and leaves at 8 at night? Um >> yeah, not not my um area of expertise, but I can look that up. com. >> Yeah, I I just don't I don't know if that I don't know that it be becomes a concern either, but um once we approve it, it's gonna if it starts happening, I I just don't know how how that gets addressed. Other than that, um you know, I'm generally in favor of of the project. Um it's certainly it in my mind, it's a uh a filling station for a filling station. It is kind of a like kind uh deal and and it certainly improves the area with the uh landscaping and the uh and the updating of the of the building somewhat. So that's really all I had. Thank you. >> I can comment on the loitering ordinance as it's written in the city code. So chapter 22 um division one says that loitering um no person shall lurk, lie in weight or be concealed in any house or other building or in any yard, premise, street, [clears throat] avenue, park or parkway within the city with intent to do any mischief or to pilfer or to commit any crime or misdemeanor whatsoever. That is what's on the city code. >> Okay. Thank you. Other questions? >> David, could I ask one? >> Yes. >> Um, Commissioner Padilla's question about cameras um made me curious. You I think you said, if I understood correctly, that there's offsite monitoring, um, of the footage of the cameras. I'm not sure if that's done by a human or computer intelligence. Do you have any information what your response time is? you know, if somebody breaks, you know, buys something at the Amma store and it drops and shatters and there's glass everywhere or there's a slip and fall in the bathroom or harassment or kids being obnox like what what kind of communication in real time do you have with whatever is watching the with the cameras from a safety perspective, I guess. >> Sure. Yeah, it's a great question. Um, so to start, yeah, camera footage is monitored by humans. Um, like I said, it's 24/7. I think we we contract, you'll have to forgive me, I don't know all the details. We have a dedicated like site operations team that kind of handles that. Um, but during, you know, normal working hours, I know that our our site ops team is um, you know, we have people who are, you know, flicking through sites and monitoring things and, you know, detecting blips of when things went, you know, the cameras caught something and, you know, kind of taking looks at that. In terms of response time to an emergency or something that needs to be addressed quickly, um I honestly don't I don't think we've had any, you know, instance of things like that. So I don't I'm honestly not sure. I do know that, you know, we have again a c like a customer service helpline um with people who answer the phone, real people who answer the phone. Um and you know, those signs and phone numbers will be posted in and around the building. Um so if somebody called that number, somebody picked up the you know the situation was explained you know that again the side ops team has like a very you know outlined kind of flowchart of like if this then this and I'm sure it would involve you know slip and fall and somebody's hurt somebody calls our helpline you know it's going to involve you know calling somebody from the city of Adina emergency services or you know if we needed to get something cleaned up quickly because it was you know, an injury or a fall hazard. Again, that's something that hopefully would be reported um by whoever knocked a glass jar over. Um but if not, again, we have plenty of cameras that could catch that and a side ops team that would, you know, work diligently to resolve it. Quincy, thank you for the presentation. Uh couple questions. I'll go down my list here mainly around business operations. So uh this is a high level question. I I didn't see Ford on your list of vehicles. Is is is Ford a partner or would be able to use or or or charge at your at your stations? >> Sure. Uh Ford is not one of our founding OEMs, but yes, we we do service Ford. >> Gotcha. What is NACS versus CCS? I I was confused on on that terminology. >> Sure. Uh CCS plug type refers to pretty much every EV vehicle that's not Tesla. Um and then NACS is is Tesla's plug type. >> Gotcha. And you mentioned this this is like your flagship store. Um, so the other stores across the country, I think you mentioned Brooklyn Park and a couple other cities, which is pretty far away. So tell me more about why this would be your flagship location. >> Um, yeah, it's a great question. Um, like I said, flagship, we have a few kind of building renovations um, across the country. this one in particular um you know the city of Adina is a great you know kind of connection point um near major thorough affairs and you know an airport um and honestly it's one of those things where we're trying to as a company be different than other third party EV charging companies um and when we see you know properties in kind of more strategic locations um that you know as Carrie mentioned kind of fit or have like an allowed use um those are ones that our site acquisition team is looking to negotiate on and you know either ground lease or purchase. Um and that that's really why is because you know there's there's the connectivity aspect of where this is on a point on a map where we need you know a site to service. Um, you know, we base our sites on on drive time, um, ability to connect to other sites nearby. And as the network grows, we're looking for ones near, you know, major cities like Minneapolis um to kind of be like a more central hub and then have like um smaller sites like I mentioned um when I say Leno Lakes, Oakland, Brooklyn Park, uh White Bear Lake kind of that help feed it and they all work together to feed the larger um I guess radius if you will in that state. >> Gotcha. Um, so just tell me a little bit more about the alternatives. Right. I I don't have an EV today, but definitely want to have one in the future. I know folks uh purchase and set up home charging stations. Uh I'm guessing that's not your target market, right? Your target market is is something different. Just share a bit more about what are the alternatives to using you guys uh service. >> Sure. Uh yeah, great question. Um, I don't drive an EV myself, so I'm I'm kind of with you in the dark on like what like what is what is living with an EV like? How do you get around? How do you charge? But what I do know is that um usually the chargers that are installed in a home are not like, you know, fast chargers. They don't charge quite at the rate that ours do. They don't have the output. Um, so ours are fast chargers. Um, and it's really more, I guess, about capturing drivers that are either passing through the area, like I say, kind of off, you know, get off the highway, come find, you know, your local Adina or Ayana. In this case, it's in Adina. And then surrounding surrounding residents, you know, if they're low on their way home from work and they need to, you know, charge quickly on their way home, um, you know, they're they're more than welcome to. IANA is, you know, aims to be for everyone. If you have a charger, you know, installed at home, that's great. Um, I hope it works. If it doesn't, you know, you know where to find us. I hope. [snorts] Gotcha. How about the pricing? Is Is this like a load pricing situation where if you charge it at night time, you get cheaper rates. If you charge in the daytime, it's higher rates. Like, or does the price stay consistent throughout the day? Um, it's similar to a gas station, you know, where the price fluctuates, of course. I would say not as much as gas stations do, just because there's not as many kind of global and environmental impacts to the price. Um, I mean, but we do have the ability to set the price higher or lower. I guess again that's kind of all done on the business side to decide I guess the flat rate um or any discounted rates for a limited time or anything of that nature is really set by um you know the business as a whole um you know decisions that I'm I'm not a part of. Um so I would hate to speak out of turn on that aspect but I do know that you know the price does fluctuate but I do not it it it shouldn't be affected by whether it's daytime or night time. Yeah, the reason why I asked that question is, you know, depending on if it's load pricing, you might see a higher volume of customers at certain times of the day. Um, you know, I I I I expect joggers, people with their dogs walking by, you know, they might want to pick up a snack. Tell me a little bit more about the type of convenience items that would be in a in a location like this one. >> Sure. Um, you know, very similar to your typical gas station convenience store, 7-Eleven or Circle K. Um, you know, snacks, candy bars, bottled drinks, um, you know, chips, things like that. Um, just kind of your average. I I think that we do have the ability to kind of contact Amazon and, you know, specifically request things that we'd like to see. Um, you know, I'm thinking about things like I don't know again if we do we do cold drink I don't know if we have like a frozen section or could get a frozen section you know things like that or you know like the the package ramens where you could you know get ramen pour hot water in it from the coffee station have raw like things like that I I'm really again a little fuzzy on so I'd hate to speak out of turn but I do believe we have the flexibility to kind of stock it with what we choose from Amazon that they provide. Yeah, the reason why I bring up that question is because in this part of the city, you know, we don't have a whole lot of uh restaurant options for residents, right? If you want to run out and grab a carton of eggs or grab some milk or something like that, if you guys had it, they'll they'll come, right? But if it's just candy bars, snacks, and water, then, you know, they probably won't do that. So depending on what you carry could impact how much residents engage with the site. Um in some of your renderings you showed like a food truck, you know, as a amenity or a type of service. Do you guys typically provide additional services for for your clients like on an annual basis like a welcome or celebration or anything like that where you might have to bring a third party to provide some entertainment or food or anything? That's a great question. Um I know that you know at sites and you know in states in the past we have had kind of public outreach events that's really coordinated by our um you know our PR team. I don't anticipate um I don't anticipate that being a regular thing here. I don't see you know first of all the site I guess just kind of the size and the irregular shape of it. it doesn't really open itself up to any sort of like future partnership or like hey like this is a great spot to host, you know, customer events and, you know, community outreach. Like I don't I don't anticipate that being a thing. Um at least not regularly. Um and I I assume that you'd ask that because you know inviting you know even more third parties into an area that's surrounded by neighborhoods. I mean, on the one hand, like I said, it could be a great community outreach thing, um, a neighborhood node as, as you know, that term's been thrown around, but on the other hand, I could see, you know, the argument of it not being helpful to invite more third parties in on a regular basis. Um, so I guess it depends on, you know, kind of why you're asking that question. If you want to see more of that, I mean, that's something I could take back to the PR team and be like, hey, you know, they're all about community outreach. What can we do? And if you're like absolutely not, you know, we can we can go that way too. No problem. >> That's a good answer. Um, which leads me to my next question. In terms of community engagement, um, have you guys done any kind of, you know, reaching out to the neighbors and say, "Hey, we have this idea. What do you guys think?" Or is this like the first time that you're, you know, coming with a proposal essentially? or did you have any kind of community engagement uh before this? >> Sure. Uh you mean community engagement prior to this site specifically? >> Uh prior to you guys presenting like if you had to pitch it to any neighbors or residents at all >> on this particular project or just projects in the past >> on this project? >> Um I would say yes. I would say, you know, kind of the communal um feedback that we've gotten on this project, both positive and maybe not so positive, um has been, you know, significant compared to other projects that I've worked on. Um and I think that's largely due to the fact that, you know, it is surrounded by neighborhoods. Um I know that we work, um and have been pretty good contact with a guy, um Mr. Pepper. Um, and you know, he's kind of been our liaison to the neighborhood surrounding. Um, you know, where we talk to him and he kind of, you know, talks to people that he knows in the neighborhoods. Um, you know, kind of gathers feedback. Hey, you know, so and so said this, like, you know, maybe be thinking about this or like this is going over well. This wouldn't go over well. Um, so he's kind of been our ambassador, I guess. Um, we kind of go through him and kind of get the get the load on on what we should implement. um between the first meeting and this one. Um so yeah, there's there's been a I'd say a greater amount of of public kind of outreach and you know reading the room um than on than on other projects I've done. For sure. >> Yeah, I think for this particular site, you know, that would be important to do. Um [clears throat] you talked about security quite a bit. the rest of the commissioners ask you some really good questions on that. And what um what I've observed really is you your approach to security is we have a lot of cameras, right? We'll monitor the situation. If something does arise or persist as being a problem, you'll find a way to escalate to resolve it. Um, so it seems like you're willing to take the steps to address anything that comes up is kind of the the posture that I get. Um, would that like same posture really extend to, you know, if certain aspects of the development, you know, like noise or um, traffic or anything like that does start to become an issue, you guys would respond to address it just to make sure that it doesn't get out of control. if he noticed something. >> Yes, sir. Absolutely. >> All right, that's it. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Any other questions? Then we'll move on. This is a public hearing. So in case you want to get prepared to uh participate by phone, uh please call 312-535 8110 and enter access code 2863 729 2903 followed by the password 5454. Then press star three on your telephone keypad. Um, is there anyone in the room who'd like to provide live commentary? Michael? >> Yes. [laughter] >> Yes. Hi. Yeah. Hi, my name is uh Michael Jiren. I'm here to provide commentary on 6016 Vernon. So, um, yeah. So, I understand the recent history and challenges uh with this uh specific uh lot and you know, as a as a neighborhood resident, I do want to see this lot be useful. Um, however, I'm concerned about the proposed plan. The comprehensive plan amendment is being requested from medium density residential to neighborhood node. Per the staff report linked in the agenda, [clears throat] a neighborhood node serves primarily the adjacent neighborhood. Uh I don't believe this plan serves the adjacent neighborhood and uh I request the planning committee and city council to deny this proposal uh for the following eight reasons. Um I don't just the EV station doesn't provide a need for nearby residents. This location is primarily surrounded by single family homes and I expect the primary customer base won't be residents in the neighborhood due to programs that support slash encourage residential charging. Uh the charging cost that they do advertise of 39 cents per kilowatt hour is really high to me, which would encourage residential charging because Excel does have programs that support and encourage residential charging at rates as low as 3.8 cents a kilowatt hour uh which is an order of magnitude less. Uh I don't think the location fits with their other trends of locations. you know, they mentioned uh the Brooklyn Park one. Uh their trend being businesses close to uh or they're coll-located to businesses and close to major roads. So the Brooklyn Park one is in a HY parking lot off of Highway 610. The White Lake station is in Culver's right off of Interstate 694. Um I don't think the 247 operation fits the neighborhood either. uh the closest two gas stations up the road, the BP and Sub uh Speedway aren't even open 24 hours and they're also near um other businesses. So, it just doesn't make sense to me. I don't like the fully autonomous smartphone operating model of the convenience store. Uh there is no on-site employee presence. I think the lack of a human presence does not build a sense of community and could lead to maintenance and safety issues, especially if kids um are going to be using the store, which I think is great, but I do think there should be an adult present in the building. [clears throat] Um the canies have been talked about. I still think they're too tall. The the plan says they're 11t tall. I do think the light still could be obnoxious to homeowners in the area. Uh the Tesla chargers don't have canopies. Um, additionally, I do think some of the renderings are a little uh deceptive because they don't really show what the station will look like from until like years from now when the trees are mature, but they also show it during the part of the year when we actually have leaves on the trees. So, I am concerned about the obstruction that was brought up. Um, I do question like the seriousness of the support for Adina. Like their narrative mentions um Interstate Corridor 5, which is not even in Minnesota. It's in it's on the west coast. It serves as the west coast. Their language is generic. I think they're asking for too many stalls. They're asking for 16, but their parking study only says they're going to need seven. So, I'd like to see that reduced. That maybe could bring the floor area ratio closer to 30%. Um, so I I also would like to see if there's a health assessment been done. Um, just new technology, health issues often get overlooked. Um, I'm I see I'm out of of time, so thanks for considering my input. >> Thank you for coming. Is there anyone else in the chamber who'd like to give comment tonight? >> Welcome. >> Thank you so much. Where do you want me here? >> Yes. >> Um, first of all, I'm all for the plan. I think it's great and I I applaud the tenaciousness of everybody trying to find something that actually will work in the neighborhood and not be offensive to the neighbors. I live a block away, so it it particularly affects me uh firsthand. Uh just a couple of points. I too would like to see the the stations or the the pumps, what do they call them when they're EVs? Uh they're not pumps, I guess, but limited to seven. And also, if uh I see no reason to put a sidewalk on the north side of Vernon, it's kind of starting nowhere and going nowhere. And there is a sidewalk if you get just past this property that connects the neighborhood. So I don't see any need for that. And I don't see any need for a gate at on Eden Prairie Road coming into this site for the same reason. There's easy access on the east side of the site. So that's all I have to say. And the neighbors that I've talked to are all in favor of it. And we really appreciate you finding something that isn't noisy and loud and having food smells and so forth. And as far as what they're serving in the in the little market, if people want eggs, I think they can go to Jerry's. It's only a mile away. So that's it. >> Ma'am, I wasn't quick enough to stop you at the beginning. Can you state your name for the record? >> Sure. Pam Allen. >> Thank you. Anyone else in the room? >> Come on up. >> [snorts] >> Hello, my name is Tom Colby. I live at 6004 Kmart Drive, which is about a sand wedge away. Is two doors away from the north side of this. And I too um am generally in favor of this. We need to get something going here. Um but I think I've got a couple of concerns. Um I echo the concern about the lack of need for a sidewalk and a gate on the north side. Um, I had heard through Matthew, with whom I'm in constant contact, that the latest discussion had been possibly to have a gate on the east side near to where that existing sidewalk is to come in as opposed to coming in off of Eden Prairie. And I would vote for that. Um, the other thing that I'm concerned about is when I hear the word node, that makes me think commercial, which is a different zone type than what this is. And that sort of bleeds into the discussion about what is going to be offered here to the charging customers. And I think too that eggs and milk and all that stuff is more of a commercial use than a car charging use. And I think we need to be careful about that. And I think in that same vein of the food truck issue, that to me is another commercial. That's like a restaurant except it's on wheels, which is a commercial use and not a charging use. So I would strongly urge us not to get a shady line to say what's really commercial what as opposed to what's really an auto body gas station charging kind of thing and keep this solely on what it's positioned as which is a charging station not a not a gathering 71 place with a club room for people to play cards and whatever else they want to do there. that isn't what this is really for. Um I think most neighbors would say if we had a magic wand, which we know we don't, we'd much rather have it be residential. But after hearing the other three proposals, which were all commercial in nature and how that would really disrupt the neighborhood, I think we're much more in favor of something like this. The only other thing I would say is with regard to the fence, the drawing in the fence looks like slats with little gaps in between the paneling, which is going to let a lot of light through to the north side. I would much rather have any kind of fence where the boards are contiguous or whatever you use for materials so that there's not slats for light to get through and noise to get through. Um, I didn't hear anything about snow removal and here in Minnesota, that's a big issue. And I, um, given the residential nature of this, I wouldn't be too keen on having the snow blow going at six o'clock in the morning so you can be ready for a 9:00 customer. I think that needs to be addressed somehow. Um, and other um, you guys have certainly been in touch with Matthew Pepper and we appreciate that, but unlike some of the other all of the other proposals, there hasn't been any communications outreach to anybody beyond him in the immediate neighborhood that I'm aware of. I don't know that we need it, but the question was, have they been talking to us? And the answer is no. they have coordinated with Matthew and for that I'm grateful. >> I appreciate your efforts on this because we do want to get something other than a vacant lot and I hope you make a good decision. Thank you very much. >> Thanks for taking the time to participate. Anyone else? >> All right. Is there anyone online? >> We do have one callin commenter. So, I'm going to unmute their line here. and caller, if you could please state your name for the record, that would be awesome. Thank you. >> Hi, my name is Karin Reed and I live at 6012 Eden Prairie Road. [clears throat] Our house is four houses from this site and um we've been active in the neighborhood on each of the different suggestions that have come forward to the plan with plans [clears throat] For us, this seems like one of the best options. We feel it's low impact for our neighborhood and uh doesn't change the zoning, which means that if it doesn't work, somebody else would have to come back to you, the planning commission um to change things uh if they wanted to reszone. As far as low impact the neighborhood, we feel it'll be quiet um that electric cars are quiet. There'll be minimal traffic. There won't be many people coming and going from there. Um we feel it will be low impact to Eden Prairie Road and to Kmart um with no entrance directly to the site um from our roads and so there won't be a need for people to drive there or park on our roads which other plans had shown. Um we feel that uh this is a a good thing. We thank um the company for the responsiveness uh to our previous suggestions with the building hours and lighting. We would like to see um perhaps lower lamps on this. As far as heights, we would request uh no sidewalk or um gate uh to In Prairie Road and uh uh take a close look at the security cameras to make sure there's enough to catch anything that wouldn't be there. Thank you for letting me have comments tonight. Um and I will stop here. >> Thank you very much. Anyone else online? Nobody else is online, so I believe it is safe to proceed. Right. >> Thank you. So, is there a motion? >> Motion to close the public hearing. >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Brennan, >> I. >> Commissioner Hannaman, >> I. >> Commissioner Feld, >> I. >> Commissioner Day, >> I. >> Commissioner Smith, >> I. >> Commissioner Bennett, >> I. >> Commissioner Padilla, >> I. >> Commissioner Nelson, >> I. >> Chair Elk, >> I. Who would So, [clears throat] now we're deliberating as a planning commission. Who'd like to start? Bunny. >> Well, generally speaking, I think that um this is a good use of a small space. Um and I think it fills a need, although it's not necessarily a need of the neighborhood. Um I think they sound um sounds flexible and accommodating, but for me, I am really struggling with turning this into a neighborhood node. And I have said this many times with every with each successive site plan that we've looked at is you know one commercial use does not a node make. Um so I I'm really struggling with the the change uh in in the zoning more than I am with what is being proposed here. So I don't necessarily have an issue with it. I think there's so little that can be done in that space and if we you know get to a use that works and the city council approves we can only meet once a month because we spend so much time meeting talking about this particular um parcel. Um but again as I said um I I when you think of a neighborhood node particularly I think of like Valley View and Wooddale to me that kind of really constitutes what a neighborhood node should be or look like or or function like. Um you see you see a lot of mixed use. you see just all all kinds of things and um this isn't that nor do I think um that's where we that's what we want this to be. Um so that's where that's where I land which isn't decisive. >> Thank you. Anyone else? >> Mayor Weather. Oh, sorry. I'll get you next. I [clears throat] was going to say I think it's worth deliberating that point first maybe before we just go down the row. Um so I mean I think it's a good one and something that I'm struggling with as well, right? Given the definition of neighborhood node being, you know, that serves primarily the adjacent neighborhoods. Um and this is just like you said, not one commercial property is not a node make. So um torn on that one as well. So I'm really just trying to get the discussion going and say curious to hear what others think on that particular point. Um can discuss that further. Claire, [snorts] I I was going to say I think the last um plan that came before us uh was um not uh approved by council in part because the comp plan guides it currently for medium density residential. And there was a comment made that um people who live in that neighborhood have expected this parcel to not be commercial anymore, but to have something come in that was medium density residential. So I think we we've talked ourselves in circles on this. Um and I yeah, I'm I'm with Bonnie. It's not a decisive answer. Um, but it does feel like sometimes what um what is driving the decision is how it's guided in the comp plan. Sometimes the conversation has been, well, it's been a commercial use for however many decades, so it's reasonable to assume that it could stay some sort of commercial use. Um, and I'm not sure I've squared that circle. If we're going to stick on that point, I'd build on both of those all those comments and say I mean I have the same struggle and yet um if you look at the other neighborhood nodes in our city, it's hard to really make a rockolid case that any gas station or any car repair shop is primarily for surrounding homes. So I agree that there's I mean I have some [snorts] processing issues with that but it we're uniformly inconsistent in the application of the neighborhood node. Not a huge fan but I don't know a better way to I don't know a better comprehensive plan category to use other than that. and isn't part of that because the neighborhood not at 54th in France has a gas station on it and there's a gas station at 44th in France and there was a gas station at Wooddale and Valley View. I mean I think that's the reason even though it is not a node. Is that fair? >> I think that's fair. Yeah, it's the smallest commercial category that we have in the comprehensive plan. So, you know, we tried creating a whole new category with the previous request. That didn't work. Um, it's something I guess there's a couple of options. We could not take action on the comprehensive plan, address it when we do the update here in a year or two. Um, that's one option. Or you could reguide it to neighborhood node for now. and we still take a look at it as part of the next update. Whether it's creating a new new category, um expanding the area, I don't know what exactly that would look like, but I think those are a couple of options we could consider. I do appreciate the fact that it is our smallest commercial designation and we don't have anything smaller. It's it's also would be a commercial designation with no employees. >> Other comments? [clears throat] >> Mayor Weather, did you have something? >> Go ahead. Um, I do like the public that the public can access this from 9 to 6. Um, and I believe there are seven pumps and each pump serves two for a total of 14. Okay. So, the seven pumps in the was correct. Um, I'd be completely okay with moving the gate to the east side or taking it off the north side completely. And although I love sidewalks, um, if the neighborhood does not like sidewalk on the north side of that fence, I'd be okay with getting rid of that. Um for me the lighting issue, our lighting ordinance um was made in a time that did not have a lot of LEDs and I do think the LEDs are quite bright. Um so I agree with the fence being built in a way that it blocks a few more things and maybe considering how to light those canopies. So there really is no way to kind of look at the bulb because even though the illumination at the lot line is zero, looking at an LED light is still very bright. And those are my comments. >> Jimmy, I got a lot. Okay, >> go for it. Well, first I I want to appreciate the applicant presentation and the changes based on our feedback from last time. Um, specifically the sidewalk on the north side of Vernon. I'll get into that later or or now. I guess it's important that we think beyond a site, especially with connections in our community, and we've pointed this out on every single uh proposal. You have the Nine Mile Creek Trail a half a mile west of there. Like, we need to make it easier to get to places. Um, so if you're on that side of the street, we don't want you to have to cross Vernon. So, we got to connect the missing strip, which is literally just this half block. So, thank you for adding that. The patio on the north side, I think it's good to have a patio. I vaguely recall the north side was contested in a previous one just for noise to the neighbors. So, I'm a little surprised with the support of that. Um, so I'd recommend putting the trash back there and moving the patio toward the street. um or condition it that way. Um also shorter canopies um would be preferred and then whatever type of function inside that does get people to linger is something um I do support. I I support your vision as a company and as a business. I guess just for me it's just not here and not now. And I I mentioned during the last meeting it'd be nearly impossible to get my support for this and the way um in the way that's pursued and the way that we're kind of forced to make a decision and this gets to like the bigger picture. So in terms of our discretion, I know Carrie mentioned it, but we have this pyramid. So when it comes to comprehensive plan um at least the question or the the stance of like it's better than what it is now um it's better than nothing like I have a higher standard to achieve in terms of making a comprehensive plan amendment and we all have different discretion here so that means my perspective and my goals and aspirations for the city are different than some of the neighbors for just fellow commissioners. So, taking a step back, if this was a beautiful multifamily residential that just knocked out of the park, I' I'd probably support that. Um, but it being a commercial use in a neighborhood node type of designation. I have a much higher standard of what should be there and this is just not hitting it for several reasons. Um, first, the vision for Dina of like inclusive and connected. Um that's that's as we look to the future, we have very few opportunities around the city as we connect places and people to like have points of interest along the way. So while this is something nice like we we can't forget what has been proposed here that we know could work like a restaurant like a very small scale where you are bringing in people and there's energy and vitality and livability associated with that. So for me if I were a neighbor there like I think differently I would very much welcome something with more energy and this doesn't have that. Um, so what we've seen before, you know, with a like a redu reduced version of like a pizza joint, you know, there is a creative reuse like this one. There's a a place to gather which is kind of critical for me and my vision for the future for my kids and for future residents is providing more places around Edina and not just in these disparit nodes of places to gather. A place for the neighborhood. So neighborhood node place for the neighborhood place for local employment. a place to walk to, a place to bike to, a place to linger, something with energy. And I think this is one of those weirdly unique opportunities that we've actually had something different there for a long time in the middle of houses. So, I think with that opportunity, if we're going to keep it like that, it needs to just be more than what I'm seeing. Uh, which is again, there's some like they're hitting good points like creative reuse. I really like that. Um, but it's a place for vehicles to gather. It's a place for commuters, like non-locals to to kind of add traffic to the roads. It's not right off the interstate. So, there's going to be more people that aren't from there just going there. And that's not the goal of a neighborhood node. No employment. Uh, you could walk and bike, but again, to uh one of the comments, like it's it's lifeless. There's no one there. So, and there's a lot of risk that comes with that. Um, in terms of like our comp plan and its vision of small areas and this network of connections, I mentioned the NM Creek Trail. Um, we had we would have the opportunity to attract people on bike to this site, but we're attracting vehicles to the site. So, while it's a sustainable energy, it's still focused on vehicles. Um, and I mean simply the neighborhood node should serve the neighborhood and this doesn't. So like just fundamentally like I just I can't get behind this and I said it last time. I really appreciate like the effort that you guys did to take our feedback um which I shared knowing like I probably won't support this. It it hasn't changed. I just I just can't. But thank you. Yeah, lot to process on this one. My sense is that what we're getting from the residents is that this site has been undeveloped for a long time and continues to be a blight and would like to have something in this location that could at least uplift it. Right? If we look at what was there prior, just a gas station, and what's being proposed now, it's very similar. Um so it would be considered low impact where the site gets to be developed a little bit further and people could start using it. Now the neighborhood node designation it's ideal that it serves the neighborhood and has based on the other neighborhood nodes some some more commercial aspects to it including employment and other services. But if the neighborhood node is what the smallest designation that we have to choose from, I'm okay with making this a neighborhood node. Um my bigger concern right now is the traffic patterns that could occur um at this site. Since this is a flagship location and most of the of the alternatives would be folks charging at home, I could see this more servicing people who don't live around here than people who do. It's certainly open to folks who live here, but I'm guessing most of the users would come from outside. That being said, you know, we would certainly want the ideal situation, which I think Commissioner Bennett talked about. We have to deal with the reality situation which is it's a really small congested location that's difficult for previous developers to have any successful development here. That also agrees with what the neighbors want. If we look back at all the other proposals, there was either concern with noise, traffic, smells, lighting. It was always something that was a bigger impact than folks wanted, right? This one is certainly much lower impact. And so it's a balance between how do we get something going as previous residents kind of shared. At the same time, if we try to think long term, what's possible in this location, right? I'm leaning it in the favorable bucket on this one because I think it's a low impact similar use to what was in the past and given the dimensions of the site and the location I think this would potentially work here. So, I'm leaning more on the side of voting in uh for this development. Um, I'd love to hear any other points of view from the rest of the commissioners. Um, the neighborhood node designation I think would would work because that's what we have available to us now. And I would use that and I think Commissioner Haniman asked Harry Director Tigga a good question earlier which is if this were to change in the future uh we put in neighborhood node with something bigger coming to this location and I think the response was it would have to go through this process again. So it's not just going to be an automatic I'm going to drop a big commercial restaurant tomorrow if this doesn't work out. So I feel like those guardrails are in place. Um, so I will be at this time in favor of this development to keep the process going, but want to make sure that it it meets the needs for the residents on the on the points that were brought up today. >> [clears throat] >> Brian. >> So, I'll start with saying that uh I might losing my voice a little bit, but um the inclusion of the comprehensive plan amendment makes this more interesting discussion than some of the variance requests that come in front of us. Introduces a different element. Right. So I'm a sickler for code um and quickly reference it if you couldn't tell by how quickly I pulled up the definition of loitering. Um mutadina is a is a bookmarked site on my computer. So um the variance is like typically we would just consider are the variance requests reasonable? Um, when a comprehensive plan amendment comes into discussion, then you start talking about well things that we're not typically charged with being city planners or vision for the city because really the comprehensive plan is our vision for the city. Um, and we have that element of discretion that Jimmy likes to talk about a lot. Discretion is one of his favorite words I think on this on this commission. Um, but it is I mean it's it's very applicable here, right? We do have discretion to say does this fit with how we envision this portion of the neighborhood or this this parcel of land serving the community um based on how we designate it, right? Whether we designate it neighborhood node, medium density rent me, sorry, medium density residential or something else. Um, I tend to I tend to lean to, you know, in most cases to not let perfect be the enemy of good. This is good. It's not perfect. Um, but I am still hung up on the how whether it actually serves the adjacent neighborhood in the way that we would hope a neighborhood know it does. And I know you brought up the exceptions of gas stations and how we've designated neighborhood nodes before and I think that's worth discussion. And even when we talk about neighborhood nodes, there is a note in the um comprehensive plan about neighborhood nodes. Now like in Lincoln Londereerry, we've included industrial which really doesn't maybe necessarily serve primarily the adjacent neighborhood. Um but I think here in this location, we would want it to serve the serve the adjacent neighborhood as best as possible. Um, and this in its current use maybe doesn't do so in the way that I I would like to see. Um, it's kind of like Jimmy said, bringing energy and activity to that corner or really serving the community in in a different way, I think makes it a better would be would be a better um proposal or, you know, something that would come forward that would do that. And so therefore, you know, the comprehensive plan amendment piece is is probably what I'm hung up with. Um, and would have a hard time here supporting the variances, I think, can be justified. Um, if you make way for the comprehensive plan amendment, I think then you're okay. But it's that sticking point. And I'm still, you know, I'm leaning towards kind of what what Commissioner Bennett said um and his general feelings on this, but there's still time for and further discussion. So, I'm still curious to hear what other people say. >> Anyone else down here? Claire. >> Um just going to add that um like Commissioner Day, the neighborhood node piece um in this circumstance is more challenging for me um prior pro I don't know what that feedback is. Prior prior projects um had been previously declined because they didn't align with the comp plan. here. We want to change the comp plan to align with the existing use. I just I feel like we've gone back and forth so many times and and I think Commissioner Bennett said it really well like our job when we have the most discretion is to think about the the parcel in the context of the city. and prior projects that were more neighborhood focused, they didn't get moved forward in part because of the comp, you know. So, I just I'm I'm really struggling here. Prior projects had 50%, you know, of neighbors were for it or residents were for it. 50% were against it. We have more better together comments here. We have a smaller, I don't know, lift to just go from a gas station to a to an electric charge station. Conceptually that seems smaller, but I but I don't like giving up the concept of how this piece in a neighborhood will serve that neighborhood and serve the larger community. And that's where I'm I don't want to flip a coin, but I I I've talked myself into and out of four different times this evening. >> Joe Um, [snorts] yeah, I'm for context, I'm newer to the this commission and so I don't have the intimate uh familiarity with the history of the site. I've heard about it, so I appreciate the concern of sending mixed messages to uh previous applicants before us. Um, I mean, I I I'm I'm falling in support of this project. It's um it's a tough site. That's the reality of of a a triangle, I'll call it. There's um yeah, bird in the hand, two in the bush type philosophy. Uh uh blight for the neighbors. Yeah, that's a real concern. It's um not fun to look at that every day. I imagine it's a a proven business, well capitalized, etc. Um um so I'm I'm leaning in support. Thanks, Joe. I'll add just a few comments. If I have my dates right, um the first public hearing for this parcel was September 2022. So, we had just dropped our youngest off for college and he'll graduate next week. And here we are still talking about the same parcel. And I guess I feel like many of us have developed a relationship with this parcel over the years. And early in my relationship with this parcel, I was very insistent on medium density residential because that's what the comprehensive plan says it should be. Um, so it was complicated for me then. It doesn't feel complicated for me. I'm not saying it shouldn't feel complicated for anybody else, but it doesn't feel complicated for me anymore. And I think the reason I've made myself comfortable with it is as much as I think it's a better place or MDR is a better solution for that area, the property is just too small and weird to have any effective application of the way we've guided it in the comprehensive plan. So I can think all I want about what I might prefer, but I I just don't see it happening here. So, I'm for myself personally, I'm ready to settle. Uh, and I think it's and I'm I don't want to be negative about the project. I think it's a good project. I think it's good for the city. I think it's good for the community. I think it will it's a good use of the land, even though I might be disappointed in another part of my personality. I think it's a good use of a very odd shaped lot in a in that location. I had a similar but different reaction to the landscaping that Merryweather did. I was thinking more of uh the height of the landscaping on Vernon, the bushes, from the perspective of somebody leaving rather than somebody looking in. Um I feel like they're too high for somebody pulling out onto Vernon to be able to see traffic going either way, frankly. So, I'd like to see him I don't know if 54 inches is what you recommend. I don't know if that's low enough to be able to see over in a Prius, but that was my concern about the height of the landscaping there. Um, so I'd like to see that I'd like to see that changed. I'm curious whether so that's the end of my comments except for the question we have raised a couple of times about in and out and whether we want as a commission to recommend to the city council that it be in on the east and out on the west. Any feedback on that, >> Jimmy? >> Yeah, this came up on prior ones. Uh the the proposed the one that was formerly supported is in on the west out on the east. So then if you're [snorts] recirculating, you're turning right and not turning left out into traffic. >> So in on the west, out on the east is what has been supported in prior proposals. >> Is that backwards? >> Okay. >> Just from uh if you want to re-enter the site, you don't want to turn left into traffic across the lanes. >> So in on the west, out in the east, >> that's what prior ones were. Carrie, maybe you can add to it. That seems right to me. We do have our traffic expert with us and he may recall he's done the traffic studies for all the other requests. So, um, Mr. Terar, if you could, uh, give us some advice on that. >> Yep, I'm here. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Um, I believe you're correct on what was decided in the on the previous plan. Um, from a traffic operation standpoint, the the traffic volumes are low enough that in my opinion, it could be two-way. I don't see a reason why it would need to be one way. Um, on this site, there's not going to be a lot of vehicles conflicting with each other. Vehicles come in, they're going to stay for half an hour, 45 minutes. It's not going to be a quick turnover situation in my opinion. So, I think it could be they could be two-way. You know, probably the way it was when it was a gas station. >> Yeah, I was going to go back to Paul. Paul, I'm sorry I forgot you because I didn't see you on the screen. Do you have any any comments to add before we go to to the next step? >> Yeah, other than the lighting in this room is awful. Uh, I apologize. [laughter] Um, uh, yeah, the the the sidewalk situation. It It is on the sidewalk plan is being uh proposed for that area. And really the only spot that as long as it connects up to the the corner on the east, um the only missing part of this sidewalk from the neighborhood node all the way over at Lincoln and Londereerry all the way down to this site is that um th those two condo buildings on on Eden Prairie Road on the on the Vernon side of Eden Prairie Road of those buildings. So I I mean I think the sidewalk makes sense there. Um, as far as the access to it on the against Eden Fair Road, I I don't really have a feeling one way or the other. I thought it would be a nice amenity to the neighborhood, but if the neighbors don't like that, that's fine. Um, yeah, the traffic, uh, just what Ed mentioned a few minutes ago, I don't see a problem. There's not enough traffic going in and out of the site to warrant a one-way uh, situation there. I I don't see at all. Um, the the other thing I guess I'm wondering about more is the this neighborhood node situation. I mean, I'm in favor of the variances and I I I don't know from what Carrie said earlier tonight, I I guess I took that we could approve the variances and not approve the change to neighborhood node. But is that is that not what I heard, Carrie? I believe you. Yes, you can. So, yeah, I would recommend and this is what the commission usually does is you start with the comprehensive plan, vote on that and then take a vote on the site plan and variances. >> Yeah. So, so I guess with the site, I mean, we're looking at the variances and the reason they're doing the variances because they want these seven chargers on the site. If they came in with with three or four chargers, this is what we talked about the last time they were in. If they came with three or four chargers, I think they could put that on the site as is and and wouldn't come before us at all. Uh because it's a similar use and uh I is that correct or not? I mean, we're really just looking at the variances here. >> No, they would still have to come uh >> because of the change of in in code. >> Correct. Yeah. whether there's >> four chargers or seven, it would still have to come forward. >> I mean, if they didn't ask for any variances on the site, >> if there were no variances permitted, yes, >> the use is permitted, right? That's I guess that's what I was getting at. Well, if they were able to fit it in there, which it's such a small site, they weren't able to do that. I guess I I'm just I don't want to ramble here, but I I just am I'm in in favor of the proposal. Um a little concerned about the lack of personnel on site, but um again, it's their operation and uh if it if it goes into a I mean, they have they have several of these across the country and they they don't seem to have problems. If they have a problem here, I think uh they're going to want to have somebody on site um down the road. So, that's really my comments. Thank you. >> Just wanted to comment on the, you know, deliberation about the comprehensive plan amendment and variances, right? I mean, it is one of the variance requirements or question we're supposed to consider whether the variance is consistent with the comprehensive plan. So, they kind of go hand in hand here. Like if you can't if you can't get behind an amendment to the comprehensive plan, you can't really get behind the variances in this in this scenario. It would be really odd. I mean, I don't even know how we would go about that. You know, not supporting the not supporting the amendment to the comprehensive plan, but saying the variances are okay. Um, that would be procedurally incorrect. So just worth I think worth highlighting again. >> Yeah. Just [snorts] to to build on that, just thinking out loud with you like if if to not approve the comprehensive plan amendment, you'd have to have a vision of what would be better in the next comprehensive plan for this parcel. And I'm not sure what that would be. Anything else? Any other comments? So, Carrie, your recommendation is we vote on the comprehensive plan amendment first. >> Yes. Separately? >> Yes. Uh, Commissioner Day raises a good point. One of the variance criteria is consistency with the comprehensive plan. Staff's recommendation is assuming the comprehensive plan is approved. >> All right. So it >> So do we need to separate it? >> That was the recommendation from the director. >> Yeah. >> It's only one more roll call. >> Yeah. I mean, we shouldn't have to from this point. Correct. >> Well, isn't there a universe where you think the neighborhood node is the correct comprehensive plan designation? >> Yes. But that the use of this site by this party in this way is not consistent with the neighborhood node. >> That's possible. >> There's un there's a universe where the other components of the variance question would be not fall in line, right? You'd say that you agree that neighborhood note is sufficient, >> right? >> But that like for example, um the plight of the land owner is not is not due to circumstances unique to the property. Therefore, you can't grant the variance in this in this scenario or again that they're not using the property in a reasonable manner, not permitted by the zoning or so. So, you could say, you know, you don't support the variance request piece, but you support the neighbor the comprehensive plan amendment. >> Not to put too fine a point on it, but we could have got we could have gotten through one of those votes already by now. >> Fair. Let's vote. >> I just want to make sure I can >> You could make one motion for both comprehensive. Could I just make a recommendation? Of course, >> what I'm hearing is that we we take two votes. The first vote, if it passes, that this is our neighborhood node, then that allows us to make the second vote. So, the first vote has to be agreed that this is a neighborhood node. And then if that passes, then we could say, does the site plan, everything meet? And if we all agree to that, that's what I'm that's what I'm hearing. >> Unless there's objection, we'll go ahead and do it that way. So, is there a motion for um the just the comprehensive plan amendment for 616 Vernon Avenue to neighborhood node? >> Is that a motion? >> I was asking for a motion. >> I I I would make that that motion. >> Okay. >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Brennan, >> I. >> Commissioner Henman, >> I. Commissioner Felt. >> I. >> Commissioner Day. >> I. >> Commissioner Smith. >> I. >> Commissioner Bennett. >> I. >> Commissioner Padilla. >> I. >> Commissioner Nelson. >> I. >> Chair Elky. >> I. So that was unanimous. Is there a motion for uh site plan uh site site plan and variances for 616 Vernon Avenue? >> I would make that motion. Is there are there any stipulations that anybody has for that beyond the the clear and the clear motion? >> I did not hear consensus on any, but that's not always I'm not always accurate. Is there I floated the condition on the in-n-out and didn't get a lot of take take up on that. But is there any any conditions that people would like to propose? Doesn't appear to be Paul in the room. >> Okay, I'll make that motion then. Is >> there a second? >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Brennan, >> I. >> Commissioner Henman, >> nay. >> Commissioner Felt, >> I. >> Commissioner Day, >> I. >> Commissioner Smith, >> I. >> Commissioner Bennett, >> nay. >> Commissioner Padilla, >> I. Commissioner Nelson. >> Hi, >> Chair Alky. >> I So that looks like 7 to2 to me. So the motion carries. Thank you for coming tonight. We'll move on to We don't We don't have any reports and recommendations tonight. So chair and member comments. Anyone? D plant sales next week for next week Friday at Arnest Acres Park. Remind what time? >> It's on the It's on the sign outside driving in. That's what reminded me of it. Uh I think it starts at like 8 8 a.m. >> Yeah, I think it's 8 a.m. >> Okay. Anyone else? >> I had one uh brief thing to mention. So, uh, when I first joined the planning commission, however long ago that was, I always struggled with the title of having to say commissioner and then someone's last name. And then listening to staff, like I'd always struggle to remember Chris Oer's title and not want to promote her or demote her accidentally just using the wrong title. So, what I've done, started to do is just use first names. Um, I asked Carrie and he didn't seem to think that staff would be insulted by using first names. So, I don't want to do that. Um, so I just wanted to be candid about that and invite anyone else to do that or not and use the titles if you want and don't use the titles if you don't want. And if anybody has would like to discuss that further, doesn't approve of that, it's totally fine, but just see me after class and we can just talk about it oneon- one. Um, >> I'm going to start calling you sir. >> Sir, [laughter] be good. >> Um, thanks for >> I I agree. Chair be good. >> Yes, chair. Except me. You have to call me chair. And then uh one other thing I wanted to mention was uh I think it was last week the city council had a work session on comp plan prep. It was about an hour. So if you want to listen to it, I'd recommend it just to hear what they're thinking about the process as we head towards that for next year. The RFP for the consultants for the next comp plan will be coming out this summer sometime. >> Carrie staff comments. >> Can I just >> Oh, sure. Sorry. I didn't know you had something. >> I'd like to thank the city for the beautiful socks. >> Yes. [laughter] >> Yes, they are cool, aren't they? Oh, you have one, too. Anything else? >> Didn't either. >> Director Teague. >> Uh, no update from city council, but just a reminder, we we will have a regular meeting um our next um meeting in May and then our second meeting in May. Just a reminder that we'll have a work session with the uh consultant on the zoning ordinance and they will be here in person for that one. >> Oh, good. >> So that's it. >> Is there a motion to adjurnn? >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Roll call. >> Sorry, almost forgot. And in adjourning the meeting, I did get verification. We don't need a roll call. You could just adjourn the meeting. >> Show hands. >> Don't even need to vote. You can just adjourn the meeting. >> Meeting adjourned. >> Gavl, >> small efficiencies. We'll take it. Camel.