Based on the context provided about the Hermantown city officials and the internal cues within the transcript (such as roll call and specific agenda items), here is the formatted transcript with speaker names. **Note on Commissioners:** While not all were on your staff list, the roll call identifies the Planning & Zoning members. **Brett Colquist** is the Chair (and the applicant for item 5B), **Cory Clark** acts as Chair during item 5B, and **Samuel Olet**, **Beth Simmons**, and **Jere Winsloff** are the active members participating in the discussion. *** [0:00] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Welcome everyone to the city of Hermantown Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for July 18, 2023. It's currently 7 P.M. We'll go ahead and get started. We'll start with roll call. Commissioner Peterson is absent, Colquist is here, Commissioner Olet? [0:15] **Commissioner Samuel Olet:** Here. [0:16] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Commissioner Clark? [0:17] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** Here. [0:18] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Commissioner Winsloff? [0:19] **Commissioner Jere Winsloff:** [Present/Inaudible] [0:20] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Commissioner Simmons? [0:21] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** Here. [0:22] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Commissioner Thomasoni is absent, and Councilor Geissler? [0:25] **John Geissler:** [Present] [0:27] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Right, moving on to agenda item number two, approval of tonight's agenda. Can I get a motion for that? [0:32] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** Clark with a motion to approve. [0:34] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Clark with the motion. Can I get a second? [0:48] **Commissioner Samuel Olet:** Olet second. All in favor? [Chorus of Ayes]. Motion carries. On to agenda item number three, approval of tonight's minutes for June 21st, 2023. Can I get a motion? [1:10] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** Simmons with the motion. Can I get a second? [1:15] **Commissioner Jere Winsloff:** Winsloff second. [1:17] **Chair Brett Colquist:** All in favor? [Chorus of Ayes]. Any opposed? Motion passes. All right, number four this evening is public discussion. Is anyone here to speak on anything that isn't on tonight's agenda? No one's here to speak on anything, we'll move on to number five. [1:35] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Public hearings. Number 5A, an application by Doug Golden for a special use permit for the construction of a 1,600 square foot accessory structure. The property is located at 5491 West Arrowhead Road and is located in R3 residential zoning district. Eric, what do you have for us tonight? [1:55] **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Great, thank you very much. If I could ask Mr. Wicklund if he's able to bring up the location map associated with this. Thank you. So what we're looking at this evening is a special use permit for an accessory structure, and that's a term—something as garage structure type—that's greater than 1,200 square feet. This property is located at 5491 West Arrowhead and it's an R3 zoning district. [2:21] **Eric Johnson:** As you can see on the map here, the property lies just north of West Arrowhead Road and approximately about an eighth of a mile west of Dahl Road. It's essentially right across from Lindell Road for the most part. As I mentioned, this is a two-and-a-half-acre lot. It's an R3 zoning. What the applicant is looking for this evening is concurrence from the Planning and Zoning for a special use permit to construct a 40 by 40 foot accessory structure, which is a total of 1,600 square feet. These are allowed with a special use permit in the R3 zoning district provided they meet some different items associated with it, i.e., setbacks, lot coverage, etc. In this case, the zoning district allows up to 35% lot coverage with buildings. This proposal brings a current lot coverage up to 5.2%, so they'd be well under. The setbacks that are proposed as part of this building construction either meet or exceed the city requirements for the accessory structure—that would be the front, side yard, and the rear yard setbacks. Joe, if you could scroll a little bit more to show one of the site plans associated with this. Right now on the property, there's an existing home that's located closer to Arrowhead Road with an existing garage behind that. The applicant is proposing to continue that driveway up to the Northeast for that proposed garage building there. And if you scroll one more, please, Joe. This is an example of what the existing building is on site right now, and the applicant proposes to match that same type of steel siding and steel roof. As part of this, there's no business activity as part of this proposal; that's one of the conditions of approval for the special use permit. This would require that this goes to the city council meeting as well on August 7th for final approval by them. So what we're looking for this evening is a recommendation from Planning and Zoning for this application to go forward to city council. [4:25] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Perfect, thank you Eric. Commission members, any comments or questions? [4:30] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** I have none for this now. [4:32] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Not hearing any... is the applicant here? Would they like to speak at all, or did Eric do a fine job? Okay, perfect. All right, we'll go ahead then and open up the floor at 7:05 for public discussion. Is anyone here to speak on this matter? All right, not hearing anything, we'll go ahead and close that at 7:05. Commission members, any last thoughts? Okay, I look for a motion on agenda item 5A. [5:15] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** Simmons with a motion to approve 5A as stated. [5:18] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Simmons with the motion. Can I get a second? [5:20] **Commissioner Samuel Olet:** Olet second. [5:22] **Chair Brett Colquist:** All in favor? [Chorus of Ayes]. All right, any opposed? Motion carries. [5:25] **Chair Brett Colquist:** All right, for agenda item 5B, I am going to be abstaining, so I'm going to pass this off to Commissioner Clark. Do you want to take it from here? [5:45] **Acting Chair Commissioner Cory Clark:** Agenda item 5B this evening is an application by Brett Colquist, Colquist Trucking, for a commercial industrial development permit for the construction of a 5,000 square foot district office building with associated site and stormwater improvements. The property is located at 498X Lightning Drive and is located in a BLM (Business and Light Manufacturing) zone district. Eric? [6:00] **Eric Johnson:** Great, thank you. Mr. Wicklund, once again, if you can provide the map. Thank you. So right now this property is being proposed to be cut out of an existing city-owned parcel. This is about a 20-acre parcel that exists within our industrial park. This proposed four-acre parcel, as you can see, is essentially in the southeast quadrant of Lightning Drive and Getchell Drive. The applicant, Mr. Colquist, contacted the city about the ability to obtain this four-acre parcel through the business subsidy program through our Economic Development Association (HEDA). This would be the third building within our industrial park that essentially fell under that. So part of what we're looking for this evening is the commercial industrial development permit (CIDP) approval for this proposed use and building. [6:56] **Eric Johnson:** As I mentioned, this is a four-acre site that's shown here on the screen. It's zoned Business Light Manufacturing. Joe, if you can scroll up to the next site plan, please. What the applicant is proposing is a construction of a 5,000 square foot building. Right now on this property, there are existing overhead power lines associated with this, and there's wetlands generally in the southern and eastern portion of the property. This particular building and this use fits in quite well with the available upland that is there right now. As I mentioned, he's looking for a 5,000 square foot building to relocate his existing trucking company to. As part of the HEDA requirements and the CIDP, the applicant will be creating a paved surface to access this building. The site has been looked at from a technical evaluation panel regarding the wetlands; it has received approval. The applicant has the ability to impact up to 5,800 square feet of wetlands under the de minimis exemption, and they fall well within that. The building will be hooked into city sewer and water, and the building setbacks either meet or exceed our requirements for front, rear, and side yard setbacks. In the BLM district, we allow up to 35% of lot coverage; this is approximately 2.9%. The building would be approximately 25 feet in height. [8:29] **Eric Johnson:** Mr. Wicklund, if you could scroll through a couple more slides. Thank you. The applicant is proposing a metal-sided building, but as part of the HEDA requirements, they will be constructing a three-foot brick or stone wainscot along the front of the building. It will also have a metal roof associated with that to shed the water. The applicant has engaged JPJ Engineers that have prepared the preliminary level site engineering and grading plans as well as stormwater. Staff had the opportunity to meet with JPJ and the applicant further this morning just to discuss a little bit more final site details. Trash service would be located in the interior of the building and, as I mentioned, it does meet or exceed all the building setbacks associated with the zoning district. [9:35] **Acting Chair Commissioner Cory Clark:** Thank you, Eric. Commission members, any questions or comments on agenda item 5B this evening? [9:45] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** I just had one clarification for Eric. With a CIDP, we are the approving board for that, correct? [9:50] **Eric Johnson:** That is correct, yes. This is one of the things that Planning and Zoning does have direct approval of. [9:55] **Acting Chair Commissioner Cory Clark:** Anywhere else? All right, hearing nothing, I will open up the floor at 7:10 P.M. for anyone in the audience that would like to speak on agenda item 5B this evening. Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing at 7:10 P.M. Any remaining questions or comments? Hearing none, I'll look for a motion on item 5B. [10:35] **Commissioner Jere Winsloff:** I'd move to approve 5B. [10:38] **Commissioner Samuel Olet:** Olet second. [10:40] **Acting Chair Commissioner Cory Clark:** All in favor? [Chorus of Ayes]. Any opposed? Motion passes. With that, I will pass it back for you. [10:55] **Chair Brett Colquist:** All right, thank you. Moving on to agenda item 5C: Review proposed Tax Increment Financing (TIF) District 1 and 2, the Greenhouse. Eric, what do you have for us tonight on this? [11:00] **Eric Johnson:** So I'm going to backtrack a little bit on my conversation with Mr. Clark. What is before us this evening is one of the rare opportunities for the Planning and Zoning Commission to actually approve a resolution. Traditionally, resolutions are approved by the city council, but in the event when we start speaking about development districts and tax increment finance districts, we do have an intermediate step with the Planning and Zoning where they actually would look at a resolution. So before us this evening is one resolution that covers basically two items. The first one is the expansion of the Development District associated with the city. Joe, maybe if you can... thank you, we have the map. The expansion of the existing development district within the city. The second thing is to approve the ability to create a TIF district on the 26-acre property that's known currently as the Ingwalls project. [11:57] **Eric Johnson:** On the map on the screen right here, this shows how the development district is proposed to be expanded. Right now, the existing development district lies within Ugstad Road to Haynes Road and it follows generally the Anderson Road alignment to the northerly part of the city. That's how it exists today; that was created in 1993. What we're looking at this evening is once again that expansion of that development district to essentially still keep Ugstad Road primarily as the western boundary, continue obviously Haynes on the eastern boundary, expand the district down to the south all the way to our southerly borders, and then to expand the district over into sections four and five which run along Highway 53. Within this development district, this allows for the creation of a TIF district on any of the parcels within this boundary, assuming it meets the TIF requirements and thresholds. [13:08] **Eric Johnson:** The rationale behind the expanded development district is twofold. The city has been in discussions with the property owner of the Arrowhead Refinery site, which essentially exists at the intersection of Highway 53 and the big bypass. That has been a site that's been vacant for a number of years; it's a de-listed Superfund site. The city as well as the property owners are currently working on what's called an Alternate Urban Wide Area Review (AUAR). It's an environmental scoping document that helps answer questions associated with this property so it moves more towards a development-ready parcel. The expansion of this development district, including sections four and five in the northeast corner of our city, could allow for a potential future TIF district associated with this particular site. [14:39] **Eric Johnson:** The rationale for the expansion down to the south is to basically address the Ingwall's property that's located at Hermantown Road and essentially Oakerson Road and Haynes Road. The city has been contacted by a local developer for the potential development of that property as a residential housing site. At this stage, there are no applications for that; the applicant does not currently own that site. It is still owned by Rod Saline of Ingwalls. What we're just looking at this evening is the ability to create a TIF district to aid in the redevelopment of this site. LHB has looked at this particular property and deemed that yes, it does meet the criteria associated with a Redevelopment TIF District. There are blighted buildings on this property, and by being able to create a TIF district on this, it starts to bring another source of financing for the potential development. Staff looked at whether the redevelopment of the site meets the comprehensive plan. The city envisions this property as a residential development that clusters the homes in a narrower building envelope in order to protect Keen Creek as well as the city trail that runs adjacent to the creek. Once again, assuming that we have the ability to create a TIF district, that opens up other avenues for financing. At this point, I'd be happy to answer any further questions. [17:35] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** Eric, just one question. You state that it meets the comprehensive plan. Is that the new comprehensive plan that we're working on as well, or just the one from 2001? [17:45] **Eric Johnson:** Since the new one is not obviously enacted yet, we're just looking at the existing as it is. In this area, it identifies for residential development and the protection of natural resources. [18:05] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** I would hate to approve this and then have it not fit with the new comprehensive plan. [18:10] **Eric Johnson:** Right now, we're not enacting the TIF district. What we're doing is looking for the ability to create one at a future date. At that point, we would start a process over again and look at the merits of that potential development: Does this still fit within the city's comprehensive plan? [18:40] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** Eric, just... I guess my question to start here would be so I fully understand, why is it being brought forth together? Can you explain the development district expansion? You mentioned where it was, but it didn't come in our packet what the current development district is, because that's part of what we're voting on tonight, right? [19:17] **Eric Johnson:** That is correct. If you look at this map on the screen right now, that Ugstad Road boundary on the west holds true with what's existing there today. Where you see the label of Highway 53, those two sections up there are currently not within that existing development district. Generally, the Ingwalls property does not fall within the district today, nor the Ugstad 53 area. [20:02] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** Okay, and this development district expansion is open and encouraging more growth along Highway 53 as well as the Ingwalls property? [20:10] **Eric Johnson:** That is right. Some cities disencumber the entire city. We said no, we want to still preserve the rural character associated with Hermantown, and generally, that's why we picked Ugstad Road as that dividing line. [20:55] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** Okay, so what the city is proposing today is Districts 1 and 2—the expansion—and then the TIF specifically for the Greenhouse project? [21:10] **Eric Johnson:** The second thing is actually the ability to create one. We're not creating one as part of this action. Planning and Zoning is saying "yes, we agree that this expansion and the ability to create a TIF district meets with the comprehensive plan." [22:40] **Commissioner Samuel Olet:** Eric, then if that site's created as a TIF district and a developer wants to move ahead, does the city put any stipulations or requirements or guidelines on that to enable it to use the TIF? [23:06] **Eric Johnson:** That's the public benefit aspect of it. We want to make sure there's some sort of a public benefit associated with it, whether it's the rebuild of Hermantown Road, the extension of public city utilities, or stormwater requirements. It's not just a matter of handing a developer cash. [23:55] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** But before that is done, how do we know that it's truly going back? How is that placed or how do we know sitting here today that that will actually happen? [24:10] **Eric Johnson:** That would be the next part when an application comes through with a CIDP. There would be development agreements in place that would be reviewed and approved by the city council. [25:00] **Commissioner Samuel Olet:** And has Hermantown done a TIF district before? [25:10] **Eric Johnson:** This would be our second. The first one that we did was in the Hermantown Marketplace associated with the Holiday Inn Express. [26:55] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** But couldn't you redevelop anything in there then? It's commercial zoned. [27:10] **Eric Johnson:** It would still have to go through a process. In this case, LHB determined that there are blighted buildings on it, and that meets the requirements of the TIF laws and rules. [28:40] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** One of my concerns is that we don't have the criteria of how this would be a TIF district specifically laid out. It seems very specific towards PNR Properties instead of just "anyone could apply for a TIF application," especially since all the information is already in the agenda. [29:40] **Eric Johnson:** And we're not looking for the fact that this is specifically for PNR. Yes, PNR are the people that have approached us, but there's no application in place and they don't own the property. [30:40] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** My last thing is, I feel this is more personally a city council decision, not as much a decision that I would make. [30:50] **Commissioner Samuel Olet:** I have a question if I could. So it's clear in my mind: you're not asking for this to be a TIF district today, just the ability to create one? [31:10] **Eric Johnson:** Exactly. [31:33] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** If the development fails in doing what they say, do they lose the credits then? Do they have to pay back the city? [31:45] **Eric Johnson:** There's a whole process. We engage companies like Ehlers out of the Twin Cities to engage us with this. There will be a very lengthy document when that time comes. My understanding is there are safeguards, terms like "clawback." [32:20] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** Eric, help me understand this. Even though it's referencing these 260 apartments on that site, you're saying that property still belongs to Saline? [32:30] **Eric Johnson:** It's still Saline's property right now. [33:12] **Commissioner Samuel Olet:** It seems like that's a big step without a commitment. I was not aware single-family housing could go into that. [33:25] **Eric Johnson:** It can as part of this development. The whole 26 acres has been deemed for a redevelopment district. It's a redevelopment-based TIF. [34:30] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** I'm normally not the chair, so I don't know... can I call on Mr. Mulder? Is that okay? Mr. Mulder? [36:13] **John Mulder (City Administrator):** In regards to the development district, the district is drawn along Ugstad Road and includes sections four and five because we anticipate development happening there. In terms of how we drew the line, we followed the urban service line in the comprehensive plan. This specific TIF district allows for housing infrastructure, the trail, and protecting Keen Creek. If at some point in time we want to look at a TIF district, that will come back to you. What you're recommending here is that this development plan and district are consistent with the comprehensive plan. Any plan for a TIF has to meet statutory requirements. In 14 years I've been here, this is maybe the third or fourth where we've actually done any serious talking about it. What we're asking you to do today is simply look at the existing comp plan and identify if this is consistent. I am suggesting to you that it is because it meets the urban service area. [41:33] **Commissioner Samuel Olet:** I have a question if I could. Let's just say "Josh Moe Contractor" comes in and he's going to put in eight houses on a cul-de-sac. Could anybody apply for it if they could prove they're having offsetting benefit? [42:10] **John Mulder:** You've got to show that it's redevelopment and that there's a certain amount of blight. Not every housing project is going to qualify. When we look at tax increment financing, we always say there’s got to be a public benefit beyond just the developer. [46:55] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** I would suggest in the future... I'm glad I'm not the only one here tonight with these questions. If we were given more of a criteria of what they're looking for and why... I felt very blinded. This has helped, but I wish I could have had that ahead of time. [47:35] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** I happen to agree with Beth. To be honest, this was rezoned commercial because PNR Properties had information on what they were going to do, and now it's being made into a TIF district because of what PNR is going to do—and PNR doesn't even own the land. It really seems like we're just doing this for PNR Properties. [49:40] **John Mulder:** Back in 2012, we were having a work session with the city council... at that point in time, the city council said they weren't worried about housing; the market would take care of it. But about two or three years ago, as housing became a real issue, we said we may need to rethink that. Now with some of the redevelopment, you've got to make some corrections, so developers are asking for TIF more often. [55:15] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** So I kind of a full understanding then: the redevelopment is a criteria for TIF because we're tearing down existing buildings. Housing, I think we all can agree there's a housing shortage. The water mains—if I'm understanding correctly, PNR is going to run extra infrastructure so there could be 26 single-family homes? I think that's a huge value add. Is there anything else why this property would qualify for TIF, or did I touch base on everything? [57:15] **John Mulder:** The infrastructure includes a new internal road connecting Hermantown Road to Anderson, water main extensions, and re-routing the pond. As part of this, we'd say there needs to be a trailhead there with parking spots and potentially a gazebo. [59:15] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** So you are asking us to accept the pre-written letter here then at the end, stating that as a Planning Commission we "adopt the facts and conclusions set forth in the staff report"? That is my last sticking point. We're having to put our faith and trust in you guys without having anything written that we have an actual plan. [1:00:20] **John Mulder:** But in the packet, we talked about the development plan: that it would be 240 units and 26 single-family homes. [1:01:00] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** I'm not sure if it's appropriate to say no or to ask the city to revise and resubmit. [1:01:30] **Eric Johnson:** Obviously, if it's tabled, we would come back to the August 15th meeting. If it's tabled, I'd look for some direction. What is the information that you still need clarification on? [1:04:18] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** I think you've brought some great points up. I guess I'm looking for specifically what the existing development district is, where it's being expanded, and then specific criteria for what counts as a TIF. Because you're really asking to allow tax financing and that's not in the agenda packet tonight. [1:06:40] **Commissioner Jere Winsloff:** I like what I see and I'd like to consider moving this forward since it's just the availability we're looking at. I like what I see here; it brings in more developers. Hermantown has been notorious for not recognizing any of this and we have had difficulty. I'm excited, but I'm still hesitant. [1:11:45] **Eric Johnson:** And that's why we engage companies like Ehlers. At the end of the day, the city needs public benefits, and we've identified what those public benefits are. [1:17:00] **Chair Brett Colquist:** All right, well then I look for a motion on agenda item 5C. [1:17:10] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** Simmons with a motion on 5C to approve as stated with the one resolution covering the two items. [1:17:15] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Simmons with the motion. Can I get a second? [1:17:21] **Commissioner Samuel Olet:** I'll second it. [1:17:23] **Chair Brett Colquist:** All in favor? [Chorus of Ayes: Colquist, Olet, Winsloff, Simmons]. Opposed? [1:17:26] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** No. [1:17:28] **Chair Brett Colquist:** All right, so four in favor, one opposed. The motion passes. Moving on to agenda item six, continuing business. Eric, any? [1:17:40] **Eric Johnson:** No, there's none. [1:17:42] **Chair Brett Colquist:** New business? There is none. Eight, communications? None either. All right, that's a quick part of the meeting. Number nine, commission member reports. Myself, no report. Commissioner Olet? [1:18:05] **Commissioner Samuel Olet:** No report. [1:18:07] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Commissioner Clark? [1:18:08] **Commissioner Cory Clark:** No report. [1:18:10] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Commissioner Winsloff? Commissioner Simmons? [1:18:12] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** No report. [1:18:15] **Chair Brett Colquist:** All right, Counselor Geissler? [1:18:23] **John Geissler:** A couple meetings ago we talked about looking for a Utility Infrastructure Director. Well, it so happens that the city hired that position and she's sitting in the back of the room there. Trish Crego. She was here representing another client today, but starting next Monday, she's going to be a city employee. Other than that, maybe Joe can give a two-second recap on the activity that's going to happen with part of Summerfest. [1:19:00] **Joe Wicklund (Assistant City Administrator):** Over the next two days, there'll be a lot of opportunities for folks engaging in the planning. We'll have two different sessions for the community to participate. [1:20:07] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Awesome. All right, well then I look for a motion to adjourn. [1:20:10] **Commissioner Beth Simmons:** Motion to adjourn. [1:20:12] **Chair Brett Colquist:** Can I get a second? [1:20:15] **Commissioner Jere Winsloff:** Winsloff second. [1:20:18] **Chair Brett Colquist:** All in favor? [Chorus of Ayes]. Thank you.