Sometimes you'll have an idea. Vanessa and I have been trying to find like fire station. >> We're trying to find $10,000 for neon signs for the Greenwood fire station. That's going to happen. for the main >> for like the main for the main as part of like their main street program about funders or foundations >> like maybe even for 5K >> so it's like making for a fire station like all these list of foundations but it's like communication placemaking fire station. So, I was trying to figure out America doesn't as you This is circle. right now. Okay. And if nothing else, spaces. I don't know what We're ready. Next time it'll be better. as usual. And I forgot the time. I start Okay, we're out of recess. Item number four deals with >> So, we have a presentation. The working group is Bingle, Lincoln, and Bush. I'll just tee it off just to remind everybody kind of where we were and how we got here. So, this work around fines and peace really did emerge during the equality indicators project, the justice theme. Um we obviously brought together a team a act after I should say we heard from the national experts um consisting of the courts the mayor's office TPD the more office treasury division e restoration working group and many other partners so uh we got on our first call uh TPD's perspective on really the same issue before us was different than the courts was different than other parties as you might imagine we're trying to solve the same thing, but we're looking at it from different perspectives. Um, we created uh three overarching goals. The goals are addressing underlying causes of m municipal offenses, ensuring every person has an equitable path to compliance, and then customer service. How can we just provide better customer service? Lucked out, we got ARPA funds. um courts made a very good proposal to us to pilot a bunch of initiatives so that we could really test which initiatives worked best and measure their outcomes. And so luckily we had overwhelming support obviously from the the council and now we need to really share with you some of the outcomes of these projects so that we can determine how we best move forward in continuing to fund those that are producing the best returns. So I think Ashley, you may take it from here and then the group at the far end who's been working diligently on this for a long long time is going to provide greater context and then we can go through questions. So it's all yours. >> Great. Thanks for having me. Um I'm Ashley Herren, the performance and innovation manager here with the city. If you don't know me, I've been working with the municipal court team on evaluating sever several of their programs that were funded with ARPA and CRF dollars. So to give a little uh preview of our agenda, we're going to talk kind of just at an overview level about this RPCRF uh funding. Then we're going to step into a uh discussion of program evaluation that we did on three of their seven uh funded programs, driver's license restoration, court advocate, and night court. Then we're going to talk a little bit about court operations support and then transition to the FY2720 budget proposal, at which time I'll turn it over to our court team. All right. So, just want to highlight here for you the three major categories that were funded by ARPA uh CRF dollars. So, first off, there was technology and facility. This was spent primarily on uh monitors signage audiovisisual equipment and the courtrooms etc. Then the broad category of programs. You can see the seven programs listed there and they each had a different runtime. Some were um in implementation for one year, some for two years. And all of these programs are really focused on enabling residents to achieve compliance to access court and social services and to reduce financial burdens. Then the last piece there is court operation support. So these are staff positions 13 staff positions uh to conduct court operations. So now to get into the program evaluation piece of it. So the first program we're going to discuss is the driver's license restoration program. This is where a service Oklahoma hearing officer is embedded in the courthouse. And of course, service Oklahoma, previously uh DPS, previously DMV, the entity that we're talking about. So to for each of these uh program evaluations, we're going to look at three broad categories. Cost, results, and benefits. So to start off with costs, the estimated cost per participant for this program is uh 30 about $36 for co for cost per driver's license reinstated and third right at $13 for cost per visitor. So, a couple things I want to highlight here is that these uh cost estimates come from uh information provided by the court management team about the annual cost that it takes to run each of these programs including court staff time. So, then we took that uh that estimation of the annual operational costs and multiplied it by the number of years the program was in operation. For this one, it was one year of operation. And the second thing I'll highlight there is for the service Oklahoma hearing officer, generally folks will, you know, arrive at court to have an arraignment or deal with some court matter and then they'll go down the hallway and speak to the service Oklahoma hearing officer. And at that time they can ask a variety of any questions that they have. They may also be able to get from that hearing officer a list of steps that they need to take to achieve restoration of their driver's license. And so that's just a little bit to highlight that distinction between the driver's license that were actually fully restored and then those who came as a visitor, they asked questions, maybe they got that uh sheet of action steps they need to take. So the next item here is results. This program ran for one year August to July 24 to 25 and the number of driver's license reinstated through this program over that period was 2249. and the number of folks who came and received information was about 6,300. So, moving over to the benefits area, there are three broad constituencies that we're going to talk about for uh the benefits of these various programs. First off being program participants, people who actually uh [snorts] participate in the program. Next is the city itself and finally the broader community. So for this program, uh, participants in the program are able to have prompt access to a service Oklahoma hearing officer. Um, there's actually a Q time list. We were able to consult, uh, with, uh, service Oklahoma. And their Eastgate primary location takes about 29, uh, minutes of folks waiting to meet with the hearing officer. Whereas at the municipal court, it's 2 to9 minutes. So less than 10 minutes. So 24 minute reduction in the wait time. And for folks who come into the court are able to walk down the hall, meet with this hearing officer, they're saved from making a separate trip over to Service Oklahoma to get this information and figure out what steps they need to take. So for someone who is making minimum wage and has to take a half day off work, maybe a full day, that's an opportunity opportunity cost of $58 if they have to take the full day off of work. So that could really, you know, be an impact on folks if they have to take that extra time. The next benefit to highlight here is faster resolution and that faster resolution making it easier to secure a a stable livelihood. So the idea here is that you're getting folks to the hearing officer faster. They're getting the information and they can start making progress on that path to restoration um more quickly. And there are a lot of jobs out there that require a driver's license. Studies show 30% of jobs are required to have a driver's license. And this uh stat isn't on there, but 86% of folks uh in the US are uh estimated to be driving to work each day uh according to census figures. So, it's really important. Obviously, we all live in Tulsa. We know the importance of having access to to safe and reliable transportation, typically in the form of a car, and uh being able to get that faster resolution to drive legally. And that's very important for most people's livelihoods um in the city. Next, for uh program participants, you have a decreased risk of further penalty and financial burden. So, we were able to calculate uh the decrease in relevant failure to appear warrants. So, we looked at that year of program implementation and calculated how many warrants uh for driver's license suspended and uh revoked uh were issued and compared that to the previous year uh when there was no program operating and there was a 3.57% reduction and that reduction is associated with about $1,100 in staff cost saving. that would be the time that they're spending on doing the administrative work to either issue or recall warrants. Um the last item here, it's listed as future evaluation. So, we do want to look into whether we're seeing a increase, decrease, or no change in the fees, fines, and costs imposed for folks who are uh for the uh time that this program is in implementation. We didn't have the chance to really dig into that data uh as we were going through this process, but it is on our list to explore in the future. I think that's something important to to really look into. And finally, for the community, the b the primary benefit is having more compliant drivers on the road. Uh that's a benefit to everyone in the community. So the next slide that I'm going to show you is getting into the kind of foundational idea of the program that getting fester faster resolution for folks with a suspended or revoked license uh is going to help prevent them from getting into a negative cycle of additional fees, fines, warrants, and potentially even uh jail time. So the fees and fines working group action plan uh that was uh developed several years ago kind of demonstrates this cycle. So, I just wanted to kind of highlight it for um some of you may have seen it, some of you may not have seen it. So, for example, there's a compare and contrast of person A and person B. For uh individual A, if they receive a citation and they have the means to pay a f a fine upfront in full, their justice involvement >> [clears throat] >> uh ends pretty quickly. They're able to pay that and move on with their lives. However, person B, if they don't have the means to pay that fine upfront, they may choose to go on a payment plan, which is a great thing that they have the option to have a bit more time to pay uh that fine. At the same time, that opens up a bit of a period where they may miss a payment or they may miss a court date and either of those things could result in additional fines, warrants, or even ultimately jail. So those uh outcomes are you get into sort of a negative downward uh cycle with that that can be hard to extricate yourself from. So the idea being that the quicker you can get folks to on the path to resolving and actually uh taking care of that uh court matter, the less likelihood they have of entering into that negative cycle. Shifting gears a bit, we're going to talk about the court advocate program. This is where a mental health liaison is embedded at the court. So the costs here, estimated cost per participant is $119. And in terms of results, this program ran for two years. And the number of participants seen during that time sits about 1,500. You can see a very large jump from year one with 220 participants in then an increase to about 1300 in year two. So there was that large jump as the program became more well-known uh judges and other court personnel made more referrals because they became increasingly aware that this uh resource was available. And in addition, the court advocate began meeting with inmates before their release. The number of resource referrals during that time period is about 1,400. Each individual who comes uh and meets with the mental health liaison probably is going to have more than one referral. That's why those numbers don't quite uh line up. 77% of all those referrals were for housing. And we have a few demographic figures here. Those individuals uh who participated in the program, 79% of them were unhoused. And in terms of kind of racial ethnicity breakdown, 57% white, 35% African-American, and 7% American Indian. So, shifting over to benefits for program participants. They have the ability to get resources and referrals on site and the ability to connect with a case manager for kind of ongoing support. There's also the benefit of crisis stabilization. folks uh at the courthouse at times are in a crisis mode, crisis situation that requires um some sort of deescalation and stabilization. And that is a real benefit that they're able to uh have a a professional uh there on site um to kind of handle some of that. And then there's of course the benefit of viewing the municipal court not purely as a punitive place, but somewhere that uh they're able to access resources and get help. So, for the city of Tulsa, this uh there is a about 2,000 hours staff saved per year valued at almost $80,000. And the bulk of that comes from time spent working on uh working with folks on deescalation or researching referral information or putting together resources so that they are available uh for when folks need them. And that work has primarily uh previously to the program been done by municipal court supervisors. So now they're able to shift their time and attention back to their true job functions. And for the wider community, there is an increased accessibility of resources to individuals who need them at the time that they need them. For our next program, nightcore night. So, this is a Thursday night docket that runs from 400 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. that handles simple traffic cases. So, the cost per participant is estimated to be right at $50. And this program also ran for two years. So, the number of defendants served in that time was about 4,000 with a pretty big jump from year one to year two. The number of cases heard sits right around 9,500 with again a corresponding pretty big jump from year 1 to year two. And the balance of revenue collected during uh the night court period was about 215,000 which represents 3% of total revenue collected from for the courthouse. If we shift over to the benefits for participants, you're seeing improved court access. So these are expanded hours for the for the dockets where people can come and be arraigned have you know deal with their matters before the judge as well as the cashier is open during those times. So people have expanded hours for payments. There is also a faster arraignment and add-on process because this docka only handles simple simple traffic. Um so folks are being able to kind of move through the docket in a faster manner than at regular court. There's also uh the element of better customer service. 98% of night court participants said they were seen in a quickly they were seen quickly and efficiently according to a survey administered by the court staff. And we calculated that 41% more warrants were recalled at night court than at regular court which is an interesting uh element of this program. Then for the city of Tulsa, we calculated that there was a 6.35% better appearance rate at nightport than at regular court. And for future evaluation, we really want to look into demographics of folks who are attending night court versus regular court um and really look at the question, are we reaching populations at risk of being impacted by warrants? Um the fees and fines working group [clears throat] uh action plan indicated that warrants are significantly impacting minority and female populations uh more than other populations in our city. So this is something we want to explore further and see uh really what what we can find out in that area. And then for the community there is increased access to court which is a a general benefit in our city. So to shift gears a little bit, those were the three pro well let me wrap this up for the program evaluation. Here we've presented the results of three programs. There were seven programs implemented and we are intending to go ahead and evaluate the remaining programs prior to uh the submission of the budget in January. So we are on track to continue these evaluations and have a bit more data about all of the programs. Shifting gears to court operations support. So I so in that uh three categories we had the facility technology we had the programs and then we had the core operations support. So this is to kind of go into a bit more detail on the core operation support. What was that and why was it needed? So why were ARPACRF funds needed for staff to conduct uh court operations? Not exclusively the programs the seven programs that we were just talking about but truly the work of the daily work and operations of the court. So the simple answer is an increase in docket size and complexity. So those elements were necessitating and uh requiring additional staff. So the reasons for that several of these you have probably heard already. The uh court team included them in their last budget presentation, but we just kind of wanted to rehighlight them here. That uh number one, there's been an increased volume from 2018 to 2024. 25% increase in total cases and 50% increase in arrest cases. There's been an increase in the appearance rate, which is a good thing, but it also brings more people in the courtroom that has to be then staffed appropriately to deal with that volume. Um, arraignment appearance rates increased uh from 54% to 63% uh from the period of 2022 to 2025. The cases heard at the court increased 94% which to me is a bit of a staggering figure to see. And finally, defendants um appearing multiple times for the same case increased by 54% from uh 18 to 24. And we'll talk in a moment a little bit more about kind of some of the elements that's causing that. The third uh element here is a decreased clearance rate. In 2011, 85% of cases were closed within a year. by 2025 that drop down to 69% of cases closed within a year. And some of the the primary reason that's happening is that judicial discretion is being utilized to give citizens more time to correct their violations. So if someone is not immediately, you know, find and close the case, they [snorts] have the opportunity to pass. They have the opportunity to work on correcting their violations and that's going to bring them in for a second, potentially a third appearance. And it may stretch longer than one year. So that's definitely one major thing that's going on with that piece. Um four there the staff levels have been down uh in the past several years. That said, a couple of positions have been la added in the last two years. The court operations supervisor and public defender moving from part-time to full-time are two to highlight there. There have also been here on five state law changes that occurred in the middle of the grant term that required additional staff. So no real uh choice there. This was specifically the cost compliance officer. And finally for number six, the restorative approach. This is kind of an element of uh two and three. So this restorative approach that the court has been moving towards allows uh folks more time to correct their violation and it's really aiming to increase compliance, decrease financial impact, enable uh citizens to connect with services when they're needed. So all of these things increase the number of touch points and often the intensity of the interactions. Again, all good things, all things that uh the city and uh the mayor, the council, the court staff are the direction that everyone wants to be moving in and part of using that approach is having more frequent touch points, having folks potentially being in the court more often. All right, that is the end of this portion of the presentation. uh focused on evaluation. So I'm going to turn it over to Grace Bowlinger and she is going to look at the FY2728 budget request. >> Hi, I'm Grace Bowlinger, deputy court administrator over programs. So you can go ahead and go to the next. Yeah, so this is an overview um of our positions that we want to be transitioned over to the general fund. As you can see, the total is $861,91 for the FY27 financial plan. The J one of the judicial clerks was included in that. So, if we do get that, then it's going to be the 7 uh790,747. So, what we did instead of that's a big chunk of change. So instead of asking it all in one cycle, we did a phased approach. Um so if you'll go to the next one, this shows our phased approach for the position. So for the FY27 budget request, we will be requesting a public defender and two judicial clerks. And as highlighted there, one of the judicial clerks is in the FY27 plan. So that would put us at 234,000 almost 235,000. Um if we need to add in the judicial clerk then that would put us at 305,000 for the FY27 budget request. Then in the FY28 financial plan, we're going to add four more positions. Two municipal clerks and two office admins. One is bilingual in court records and the other ones is in bonds. So, that total is going to be 270,455. And we're showing you just to let you know what our three-year plan is, the FY29, where we will add four more positions for a total of 186,584. Now, just to note that we predict that we're going to have about $99,000 left in grant funds. So, we're going to partially fund those four positions um that are listed there, the two cost compliance and office admin and the community engagement coordinator. So, that's why that that FY29 the ask on the general fund will be a little bit lower because we will still be able to utilize some of those grant funds. >> What the What's the grant? ARPA. >> It's ARPA. >> CRF. Okay. CRF. Yes. Um on the next one is the programs. This is our going to be our FY27 budget request for the programs. We will have three months of ARPA left that we can put towards the programs in FY27. So what you're seeing here is a 9month request and that comes in at 252 almost 253,000. So we in the financial plan we had court services program funding at 227,000. So if we do get that then we'll just need about 26,000 for the FY27 budget. For the FY28 financial plan, we will need 347,440. This is um for those contract employees and we went ahead and put the 3% increase in there. Um, so and then I do want to point out, you will see there the financial counseling with the financial empowerment center. I want to point out that that is not coming from the FEC budget. Goodwill is paying that directly to the municipal court for their services. This is just an overview of what we just talked about. So for FY27 budget request, positions would be a total of 305,000, programs would be a total of about 353,000 for a grand total of 558,000. For the financial plan of 28, we're going to add four more positions for 270,455. And then for the programs, it'll be 347,440. That's a full year um on the general fund for the programs for a total of 617 or about 618,000. Then just showing the FY29 again just so you can see our three-year uh period adding four more positions that will be partially funded through grants about 99,000 and then from the general fund we'll need about [clears throat] 186,584 >> and one cent >> and one cent. [laughter] >> Make sure to get that in there. Okay. Okay. Thank you all very much. Yes, sir. And >> thank you for your this presentation. Um I'm not a this is, you know, I'm a newbie and so I'm super interested in this working group. I probably know the least about um you know, so this has been very helpful. My um I have a couple of questions. There's four more programs that need to be evaluated. Um, when you talked about the first three, I didn't really get a clear picture of how much each one of the three programs, maybe how the money was allocated as far as they cost or when you make the budget request, how much of those these positions reflect each one of the programs? Can you kind of see how what I'm saying? And so I um and then also the ARPA funds. Uh you said that some of some of the the positions are covered by the ARPA funds. I'm curious how much do we have in ARPA and in the in the chart. I'd be interested to see um that in the chart. So at our present day what we have ARPA has been fully exhausted for position cost. We do have the money there through 9:30 of 26 for programs through contracts that we have with outside vendors but our uh personnel is all CRF currently. Okay. >> There's a budget amendment in process that might change that but I'm just talking about what's there today. And then as far as programs, did one of our sites not have the breakdown by program >> about how much it cost? >> Yeah, for each I have it. So this is for Yeah, they don't have that piece though. >> Yeah. >> So for the actual cost of the programs, that's what you're asking per year for like the for like an FY27. >> Is that what you're wanting to >> So it's up on the screen. >> Yeah. So because it's showing we're only showing nine months I can understand. So for the special services court the full year funding is 79,000 for the court advocate. >> Oh sorry do for the FY28. It'll show you the full plus the 3% that I put in for the contract employees. >> 3% >> our contract employees are the special services court. the court advocate and the service Oklahoma liaison >> and the financial counselor. >> Okay. Which is the 40,000 >> 200. Yeah. >> Um All right. Um I'll follow up with you a little bit later, but I'm I'm curious about the um you know, seeing the other four evaluations. So, >> we'll get you those numbers so you >> Yeah, we're hoping to have them by budget, >> which is the end of January. >> Great. >> Thank you. Uh, councelor Leak's been the lead driver on this. Who's on the committee now? I missed that. >> Oh, it's on the agenda. I read it to you. >> Oh, sorry. >> Bingle Gilbert's. >> Oh, okay. Oh, the the big agenda, not the laminated one or the Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Um I think we've seen a lot of impacts and it's exciting to see how the vision is coming through. >> Um I don't have numbers on the slides. There's the one called municipal court budget request and that's the 99 that's still coming from the CRF. >> Okay. So that's like the final trail out of the CRF funds. Um, on the next one, I just amplify the 40,200's going to be funded by Goodwill for the FEC. And then on that next slide after that, municipal court budget request with the three-year plan. >> Yeah. >> On the Can we go back to that? >> This one >> the FEC, it's not funded through goodwill. We pay Goodwill. >> Okay. But repeat then to me that you said the financial counseling empowerment center is going to be funded by Goodwill, >> right? Goodwill pays dur Sorry, I was trying to make sure that you guys didn't think that that money was coming out of the FEC budget. It's a separate a separate thing. I'm not >> a separate >> from the city. >> Are we paying Goodwill or is Goodwill paying us? >> We're paying Goodwill. >> Okay. We have good. >> It's coming from courts, not >> FC. So FC has like 150,000. This is additive out of the municipal court budget, >> right? Okay. >> From what we understand, the FEC budget supports only their personnel cost and doesn't include the embedded >> person that's in the courthouse. >> So, this is additional, but it's still city dollars. It's just bifurcated between >> the Sheridan location and the municipal court like Okay, got it. Let me I was like not understanding that cost allocation. Okay, next slide where we're in the three-year kind of table. Next one. The next one, that one. So, the overall cost if we do all of this is a 1.36 million over the next three years. Just kind of want to >> Yeah. 1.362. Yeah. Yeah. 1.362. Um, >> and then if y'all look at the fine print at the very bottom, it says does not include any costs associated with the move or fourth courtroom. So uh I wanted to ask what are these costs and what limitations will we encounter should we not do that fourth courtroom that's something we've been discussing with the mayor's office with the fourth courtroom so this this presentation was strictly our CRF >> okay >> but there are impacts definitely um and we're working on the capacity pieces trying to reduce the volume >> in other ways Sorry, I have a little bit of a scratchy throat. >> Um, to reduce the volumes that I've been working with Laurel on that. Um, so I don't know how much we want to bring that up here in this forum. I mean, I'm happy to talk about it, >> but we could put a pin in it, but I think we need to >> think about that. And the reason I'm not trying to put you on the spot, we continually revise our ordinances and um, right when law enforcement enforces those ordinances, a lot of those folks end up at the court. And so we are part of that and I think we're making good choices, but we cannot make those choices and wash our hands of it and not look on the back end of the consequences of when we put more people in front of the court. >> At some point they're going to be at max capacity. I know councelor Bengals observed a lot of court. I've observed enough to know that they are doing the most with the least in a lot of ways >> and they are our judges are very dedicated. But again, when we talk about working conditions at animal services, I would say we have similar working conditions at our court. >> Very substandard. >> I'll give you one uh just kind of a simple takeaway for me. That's the biggest takeaway on our volume. In 2022, our jail capacity was 32 inmates. Now it's 70. Plus, we're carrying another 40 at David El Moss. So, we have like 140 inmates at any given time. and we're staffed for 30 and that's a daily grind on a docket. >> That's a lot. And that's where the fourth courtroom comes in is having dedicated >> docket just for that. >> Yeah. And I would kind of segue from your com from what you just said. I'm still challenged by the visual aspect of our general docket as part of >> the normal docket of our judges. Our judges do a great job. I think if you haven't gone and sat in each one of those three judges dockets to kind of really understand what they deal with, they're very fair. They give citizens every opportunity to avoid um any kind of infliction to their driving record and and to get right. And so that's why some of these programs are very significant impacts to our citizens, especially um service Oklahoma, right? that has been a huge impact and it >> doesn't cause people to come back and forth, back and forth and make multiple trips to the court. So, >> the jail docket has really been hard for me to watch. Um, when you have citizens in there, you're in there on your worst day. You're shackled, you're handcuffed, and I don't know exactly what these people are in there for until the judge reads the charges specifically, but that is not a good way for a person to come in from the public >> and I'm still challenged by that visual. >> I have um one more question. So, could you remind us or um answer later? We did some revenue recapture adjustments in the last year or two. Could you remind us what those were? It was like >> Is that the technical changes? Is that what that would be? Revenue. >> Yeah, we like how we No, something different. >> The collections. >> Yeah, collections. So, there was a one and I have on the slide. We did very first. >> There was like an expected one time like cost bump just for past collections and then there was an annual cost buff. I bet Sherry numbers off the top of >> Yeah, I think it was about 500,000 >> for one time. >> We're getting ready to to kick that off in the month of November. >> Okay. >> Uh we'll have our first round going. Sure. >> And then we're only expecting about 60 to 100,000 annually after that. >> Okay. I just >> I knew we had looked at like revenue side. Um so yeah, I just did want to highlight that. um this doesn't anticipate moving out of the facility, right? Because that's on the capital side or the staffing >> um challenges that we're all observing. And uh I did just want to remind our newer counselors um the way that our municipal court is set up in Tulsa, the administrator reports to the administration, the judges report to us. And so I always feel very strongly as this body that renews their contracts that we do need to advocate for their working conditions like they otherwise they're left not that Sherry's not but you know we're responsible for them and we're responsible for retaining them and making sure that they're um salaried appropriately which I think we've made big strides on and been very thoughtful about adjusting salary. Um, as councelor Bengal said, and we all know they're so dedicated, but if you've sat over there on those dockets, the amount of compassion they they just continually shine out to these citizens who may this may be their only interaction with the city of Tulsa outside of their water bill and the the ticket they got from a police officer, right? So, um, but we also have to make sure that they're not being asked to do more with less. And that to me outside of new facilities which we've did the tour and understand understood very quickly like that facility is no longer appropriate. It's it's to me a parallel to what we've been seeing with animal services. And so I just want to make sure that as we're crunching all these numbers that are flying through us in these 25 minute presentations, you know, we take note of the things that we still need to plan for. >> Agreed. Definitely that we're move on. So, oh yeah. >> Okay. I would be uh interested. I would be interested in the median age of the utilizers for these programs as well as do we have information on zip codes. >> We have both of the we don't have them with us today, but we do have and can get you both of those. >> Yeah, I would really like to see that. and also the breakdown of female and male, what the percentage looks like as far as that goes along with the demographic information that you've provided. Um, and that I think that will show us as counselors where maybe better community programming can occur to break down >> resources. >> Yeah. where we can have more resources outside to prevent even that need to come downtown. >> One of the things you'll see in our data when we do drill down into zip code data is there are a lot of unhoused and so they will report just downtown. Just so that you're aware, it kind of skews how it looks because there's not a zip code. >> It's just whatever the officer puts in the box. >> Okay. Yeah. I think it would be great to have programming within our to be able to prevent >> upstream >> yeah upstream costs that keep increasing. >> Um yeah, thank you. Um so I I just this is a little off topic, but I just wanted to take this time to thank uh the city courts, Sherry and her staff. We just held the seventh expungement expo this past Saturday, and the city always supports. Judge McHune and Judge Diller came and stayed almost the entire time and they usually do that. So, I just wanted to say thank you because that's even over and above what you were doing. >> Sherry was there the whole time. >> All right. So, >> it was a great successful event. >> Thank you. >> Yep. Last word for me. Um I would just say, you know, there's so many qualitative elements to this that we still are trying to evaluate. Um you know, so the cost for the court advocate is 119 bucks. But the benefits are ability to get resources and referrals on site, ability to connect case managers, crisis stabilization, so many things. How many of us would put 119 bucks of our own into something with those good outcomes? We probably would do it all day long if we had enough $100 bills >> in the grand scheme of things. Same thing on driver's license restoration. It's just highly beneficial to get that driver's license restored >> at the at at the point of contact so they don't have to drive to >> East Tulsa. East Tulsa is a bad place to have drive. >> No license to get there out there, but [laughter] >> get it right there. Don't run the risk of not doing that, getting pulled over, having an issue that puts you in in jail or cost you a lot more. >> So, there's just so much value to continue to invest in this and I can't thank you all enough. You've been telling us for a very very long time and thankfully we did have the ARPA and CRM funds to invest in this to make most of it come true. Now we just have to work within the budget process to continue to make it happen. Okay, we're off to agenda item number >> five prehosp working group and I'll kick it off to whoever's leading us. >> I am taking this one. Um, thank you so much. Just to level set prehosp community healthcare working group uh started in February of 2023 and it was um councilors Harper Q Bangal and myself that started that. Obviously councelor Q retired last year and so we've added councelor Gilbert to the ongoing work. Um, from February of 2023 through February of 2024, we were meeting weekly as a body and then transitioned into more of a monthly interval. Um, and now have stayed on a monthly interval with a little hiatus over the summer because we were in the RFP process. Um, just to remind those of you who were here and those who are new, immediately uh, in fiscal year 24 budget, we knew we needed to make some in investments. And so at that time, we did a $350,000 increase on um, fire paramedic supplies so that when they're arriving on scene to augment what is doing, they have the supplies necessary. That had not been increased in like 15 years. And then we got a um onetime $150,000 allocation to hire a consultant to help us do a citizen focused analysis of the customer experience um of the prehosp health care system in Tulsa. And for us, that's really from the time somebody says, "I need to call 911" and places the call to whatever resulting um outcome, whether it's they get a first response, an alternative response, or they say, "I'm good. I'll go to urgent care," or, you know, just, you know, refuse service alto together. Um, in 2023, the working group uh went to San Antonio to observe their prehosp community health care system and their mobile integrated health system and came back with some really best practices and strong recommendations. Um that led to us having a pretty robust discussion about what does 911 look like today and what could it maybe look like in the future in terms of positioning the fire department to be supervising training and having direct oversight to their own dispatch. That continues to be an ongoing discussion. But out of that in the fiscal year 25 we did secure two positions to um help fire dispatch start to strive to meet those national standards. Um initially I think both those positions were going to be fire focused as I understand it now. One is fire focused one is more of a hybrid police fire um position that Chief Baker and Deputy Chief Brooks worked through. Um, those positions were funded in fiscal 25. They still have not been hired, but I got an update that fire supervisor position is in the process of getting the job description written and the position will report directly to Chief Baker. So, that is a change. Right now, none of the dispatchers report to Chief Baker. And then the CAD's administrator job, which is that hybrid job between police and fire, uh was just reclassified this past week from AT32 to AT40, and it'll be posted soon. Um and that Chief Baker and uh Deputy Chief Brooks are working through the administrative um details of how these positions will work. So, just for our um counselors who haven't been as in the weeds, right now our Tulsa Fire Department is dispatched at Tulsa 911, which is under the administration of the Tulsa Police Department. Our working group um I think wanted to look at these two positions so that we can strive to get Tulsa to meet the National Fire Protection Association standards and practices, specifically 1221 and 1225. So, when we go back to the red dot on national um standards to be, you know, America's safest safest city, I'm just going to put a pin in like NFPA is probably something that we should put as a criteria. Um on the request for proposals on the consultant, the contract was negotiated um over the summer. Councelor Bengal and I were on that review committee along with Commissioner Roberts, Janna Easley, the CEO, um, Chief Baker with the fire department, and Deputy Chief Brooks. We had several applicants and went through a robust scoring process and narrowed it down. And so the contracts been offered to um, public consulting group and that was just sent to them for final signatures on the 21st of October. Um, we have requested that they be on site. Their initial proposal was going to be all virtual and councelor Bengal and I felt strongly that there needs if we're really understanding the c customers experience. So we need to have them engaging with the customers. I think there will be an opportunity for counselors to also help facilitate some of the constituent informing and gathering and you know getting feedback. Um we want to move past anecdotes and really drill into like data so that we can analyze where the gaps are or where we just need to strive. Um Ashley Murphy will be serving as the project manager. So that's kind of like launching us into now um the u presentation here. You saw I just talked about the >> I wasn't watching the slides go. I was just talking. Okay. >> You cover all you breeze through that pretty quick. >> Yeah. >> You didn't need any slides. >> You didn't need slides. You did it. >> I did it. The public consulting group remind me where they're based. Was it Austin? Austin, Texas. And they've done work in the city of Tulsa and Tulsa County. I'm looking at Commissioner Roberts because she'll remember. We I don't remember how many applicants we had. Maybe >> it was like 11. >> We had 10. We had one withdraw. >> Yeah. >> So, we had a lot of choice and there were a lot of um >> this is a two-phaseed approach that the um working group has put forward and so this would just be phase one. So, it's not the full $150,000. will have dollars left over for phase two. Um I know the wheels of government turned slow and I'm this is my opinion getting funding approved and two years later we're still writing job descriptions. I don't know what the holdup is. I know we've had issues in the past with other things >> called feet dragging. >> Well, is is it an HR? Like I don't know what it is, but I'm just going to express that when we work that hard to scrape and scrape and scrape and negotiate down to $70,000 for an X-ray machine in the same year we're asking for 150 for an RFP. >> Yeah. >> And that took as long as it did, and I understand there's administration changes and things. Um, >> I I want to thank Commissioner Roberts for jumping in and leading on that side because she really had to pick up and understand what we've been talking about and get in. So, since she's come on, we've seen an acceleration and, you know, checking some boxes. So, I did want to say that, but it should not take us two years. And you all know, and we don't need to get in here, but our fired fighters have been very public about what they want to see changed. And so when we talk about a sense of urgency and looking at how we're going to be the safest city in America, we have got to have these conversations. Um, so I think I covered everything on the slide deck and I just wanted to say that we will continue to meet. Um, we've been very focused on on these elements of the prehosp community health care system, but there's a lot more there. Um, and so now that we've kind of got progress on the things that have been in the pipeline, we're regrouping. Obviously, the consultants will be here and and we'll see what their reporting and their research tell us. And then that should inform some of these priorities we continue to set. >> Bellis and then Bush. >> Thank you. >> Yep. two follow questions or like putting pins in budget elements. I know we've talked about good Sam or something similar in the past as far as technology goes, right? The like because I know part of the challenge of like the prehosp space has to do with integration across these departments with our public health infrastructure with like dispatch times and things like that where we know these like minute seconds make a huge difference in outcomes. Um, and that there's been that technology discussed in the past, right, which could stand as a quick summary is like someone calls 911, if their phone's able to do it, like they can send the link, they can click, video comes up so that the person can help see. >> Oklahoma City Fire Department's been using it for a year quite successfully. >> That's that's awesome. Well, the concept is also it can help make sure someone's assessing a situation, providing that person support and like taking some type of action or also assessing if we don't need to dispatch certain vehicles. Like there's a lot of >> life and cost saving that can happen. So I really hope that that can be something that's pursued like or made space for in the upcoming budget. >> Um especially given like to your point where like this RFP process has happened now they're assessing by the time we get like reporting outcomes. Who knows what budget cycle we're looking at if we are thinking through okay what are the quality improvement measures for 911 and we know that people's as the fire department's been clear people's lives rely on us improving how some of this plays out. So maybe that's something that's like a mitigating technology that could happen sooner potentially. Um and then my other >> just to be clear the technology can't happen without a change in the staffing pattern and just like the >> operation. Okay. That's and it it's above my pay grade to figure out what that is. I just know when we were in San Antonio and now we can look right at Oklahoma City, which I do want to say was not >> first in line to talk about this, but they're now going to show us how it can be done, which is another point of frustration for some of us. >> Yeah, I would love to like whatever we can do as a body to support continuing to pursue that kind of both like life and cost-saving measure. Um, especially since it's like a technology that's not incredibly expensive and it's like an upfront and then like licensing fee. And then the other my other curiosity or like this is something I know in some ways less about but I know the fire department has the jelata system and then that's like there's that kind of case management referral aspect where they're able to then send that info to family children's it could go into like a hospital ER setting for some of these frequent flyers. >> Um especially like the people they're kind of case managing. Um does that tie in with like because I don't think the police have a similar case management software. I just like I've been really curious about the data sharing ability between departments related to that or the case that case management aspect and like our ability to kind of track like the fire department and maybe these hospital and family children's all knows when they've interacted with ex person if the police department are interacting with the same person or they do they know >> yes I'm trying yeah I'm just trying to understand because I know that's also one of those like it's streamlining it might help us >> efficient >> be more efficient in that prehosp response that's a curiosity or if that is a tech budgetary need to like make sure that we have that software available elsewhere. >> So I'll I'll answer your first qu question first. >> Um we do have software that's similar to good Sam. We're operating with prepared 911 right now. Okay. >> Um the fire department did put a request in last year for good Sam during the budget cycle. We did not approve that because of the prepared at that point. there was not um a clear delineation as to what benefit one had over the other. One is far costlier than the other. Um and just as of um so we have taken some steps with the fire department. We've had part-time personnel actually we had somebody over there on a temporary basis for about three months uh with the fire department to do a very deep dive into it, give us some recommendations on it. We've revisited some of those and just recently have started to pick up the ball again on on the positions and whatnot. And the good Sam conversation is part of this. What does good Sam deliver at a much more costbenefit um uh compared to prepared 911. So I would expect to see some of those conversations around budget cycle as to to what each one of those software, but we do have the capability to drop a pin to a caller or drop a link to a caller, live stream that into dispatch. Um, and so we're we're working through those changes, but we we have noticed the success of Good Sam. Um, and Chief Baker is a huge proponent of it. Um, and so I think we're we will revisit those conversations and see what the best option is in our next budget cycle. >> That's exciting. >> Gelato. Um, I don't really see how that, um, other than the very specialty mental health units within the police department, how Gelato would really be helpful just to your average patrol officer responding. But >> is that something that the mental health units in TPD already have access to? I don't know that question. I can find out the answer to that. >> I think that could be I've just been thinking about we know that sometimes it's like 100 people that whether it's police, fire, etc. are constantly. Yeah, there those high utilizers who are in and out of like their get out of the ER and they're circling back around. And so that integration with family children's the ability to send those referrals to the hospital systems. I would just be curious if those same mental health folks have access to that or how that's integrated across police and fire knowing fire has that tool. >> So the CIT response or the response is embedded with a firefighter paramedic >> who does have that capability. So there's a >> partner on board that has that. So if there's not the access 24/7 for that >> do the people who are the um social last question the social work folks that are embedded in the different like divisions right now also have that access >> I don't think I don't know that >> that's just an interest yeah just as a curiosity >> and even as we're dealing with the homelessness issue I've asked that same question >> when we're talking about case management and keeping people out of that perpetual cycle of homelessness >> that those service providers ers have access to that and that it's a shared database >> so that you can do good case management to your point. >> Yeah, it's just yeah big curiosity >> and efficiency. >> Y councelor Bush and then we'll go to break. >> Um [clears throat] real quick and then probably for you what's the new timeline? I mean you've been at this we're going on three years how do we accelerate this and get let's get this going? [snorts] >> What's your timeline? My timeline was two years ago. Thank you. I got the dollars. We got it down and here we are. >> I I think now that we have a contract signed and a project manager, I I would not anticipate much between now and the holidays. Um so my goal is to get that started right after the first of the year. Uh PCG um [clears throat] was a four to five month timeline to do their >> once they start. Once they start >> Yeah. So we should have some results by summer. summer coming into the end of the budget. >> Yeah. Well, that's what my question. Are we coming? I mean, we do budget in June. So, are we going to have any information? >> I would anticipate. Yes. >> Early indicators. I I will just say this. There are certain things that a consultant will tell us about ourselves that we don't know. But I think the vast majority, at least from the working group, >> yeah, >> we know. >> We know. Right. Things are mystery. >> And we should listen to the people closest to the problem who's been repeatedly telling us what needs to change. So, It's just going to take, right? We're having conversations about how do we get all of our needs met with the dollars we have today, maybe dollars down in the future, but I think when we go back to priority setting, that red dot on meeting national standards really stands out to me. And I will just say around this, we know what the standard is. We're making >> steps there. >> Yeah. >> Um but we we also need to invest where it needs to be invested. And I think, you know, over the years we've had grant dollars and things fund stuff that um we can pilot. We certainly have proved that out with alternative response and CRT and >> Sure. >> So I just we need to stay on it and I I I am grateful to this working group. I know we've kind of had real intense times of being together every week and then it would kind of not. But um we'll get back at it now that we actually know that we're going to have a four to five month project coming through. So, and um Commissioner Roberts is on our working group, too. Sorry, I did not say that before. So, >> she has nothing else to do. >> Well, when we launched, we didn't have a commissioner. Now, we do. So, >> it's great. >> It's been very helpful. And I want to add one more win that we got out of this and it was really >> low because when you talked about the the funding of supplies, >> we also had the the vendor >> supply issues where you uh MSA was able to get required equipment at one cost and then Tulsa Fire would be left out there to negotiate their own cost and it would be somewhat higher, >> three times higher. >> Yeah. than what EMS was paying. And so we fixed that issue uh with Donnie Teeman who's the director of >> purchasing >> what is he what is he acquisitions or whatever purchasing. Thank you. >> And so that issue has now been fixed. So both uh entities that are required to have that equipment mandated by the OMD will now get that same vendor pricing. So that was a huge win. >> Yeah. Thankfully, we tried a couple of times beforehand and it just didn't work. But >> hours over the line and yeah, saving money is crazy. >> Exactly. >> Okay, let's take five minute break. >> Thank you. >> Be back whenever you watch this. Hello. >> Good morning. [clears throat] How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Okay, we're off to the next item >> and it [snorts] relates to city housing administration. >> You taking us from here? >> Councelor Bush's. >> Oh, there we go. Yes, >> you were looking at me. I >> was you. We've already Yeah, we've already we already actually talked about that and it was taking the lead on this. Okay, >> councelor Bush. >> Here we go. >> All right. Well, next up, uh talking about the development process improvement initiative. Um this stemmed from um for a year of campaigning the number one issue that I kept hearing from was some of the issues that we may be having in the development process that is hindering some um projects from taking off the ground. And as you said earlier, councelor um let's not do it for him without them. >> Um councelor Leaken had heard some of the same things. So we uh pulled together a group of users of our our systems and asked them to come to the table and share uh with everybody about um the issues they're having. And what was really cool about our first meeting was they didn't come with just complaints. They came with ideas of how to better improve it. Um so you know we talked about inconsistencies and a culture, some tech issues. Um, Michael Skates is sitting here. It's uh, he's all of them said, "Well, if we want something done, we just have to go straight to Michael." So, we can't have Michael just doing all of that, right? So, how do we better improve the system? So, uh, that it's not all just falling on Michael to get some of these inconsistencies taken care of. And with that, I will turn it over to Miss Sarah. So, fast forward to after after you all um entered your terms this year, um we had the mayor council retreat in January and the development process um was under that bigger economic development category um that you came away with and there were really two action steps um that related to that. One is as councelor Bush emphasized increasing our customer communication and developing solutions really incorporating them in that process. Um and the second was um the reduction of what were some like perceived um regulatory barriers. Um before we get too far into it, just to emphasize development process is everybody in the city from the people who fund um the development processes to the first person that they meet at the front door at security um to public works to fire development services. Um there are a ton of people touch the development process. So this isn't just one department or or issue like that. it's more systems and and processes um that we've been looking at. Um and so through this um these were the action steps and we'll talk a little bit more as we go through the presentation um on how we have been looking at these processes um and not just we sitting at the table but um the people that work in this every day. >> Good morning counselors. Um, I'm going to just touch a little bit on a few of those initiatives that Sarah referenced. Um, there is a lot happening, I think, in terms of how we start to look at our process and how it touches all of those different departments, but also how developers play a role in that. Um, there's shared accountability in in this conversation. I think everybody embraces that and understands that. Um, so a few of the things that we have going on just as kind of a recap. Um, many of you recall the pre-approved plans conversation that we've had. That's developing a catalog of essentially construction plans that are ready for building and development and reviews kind of done. I'll say um for the most part that process is really focused on allowing us um internally to even experience what it's like to go through and get permits and have your plans reviewed and pay your fees and go into the portal and etc etc. Um, yes, very focused on housing specifically, but again, I think what we are hearing and learning through that is very broadly applicable um to development in general. And so we have a a report that's going to be coming out um here very soon um from that program and that project that was funded um uh to identify recommendations and different things that need to need to be changed, things that need to be done to help improve that. Um and what we're learning through that. Many of you know Housing Forward. Um fortunate to have them based here in Tulsa. Housing Forward, they provide statewide solutions um both from research, data, policy, and advocacy as well as just kind of development expertise. So, we're working with them. We have a data sharing agreement with Housing Forward to where we're basically giving them access to everything that they need from the city to begin to look at, you know, what's happening in the process of development. Um, so we've kind of given them the keys, so to speak, um, to allow them to kind of use their team and their time to begin to develop and look at a lot of that. Um, and have already, I think, started to do a lot of that work. Um, and we'll continue to kind of do that throughout until we get things right. And this is, I mean, this is a process that we learn something, we we make a change, we do something a little bit better, we find something different. I mean, it's it's going to take time and we're going to continue to put our best foot forward. housing acceleration team's a good example of that. So this is kind of a new program um developed under Mayor Nichols and Jean and I and working with Michael and the many others who are involved in that. So as a [clears throat] again focused on housing development project um we meet every day we sit down. We talk about the issues. We figure it out. We communicate in person around a table just like this um on the other side of the wall. And we did that with the Hilltop project. Um, and our goal for that, and I think what we learned is it was very much like how can we get permits issued, building permits issued within 30 days. What we're finding is not every project is maybe that time frame. You know, maybe there's projects that in fact with this one, we probably got a little bit ahead of the developer and what they necessarily needed, which is great. Um, but those [clears throat] are conversations that I think Gan and I have several throughout the week talking about projects. Councelor Bush, we've visited with Tim Yardy and the Moxy and we just had a conversation with him earlier this week. So, we're open to having those conversations um with anybody who's looking to do, you know, larger developments within Tulsa. And we know that there's going to be a planning and a zoning or an infrastructure or we're going to help them figure that out. Um, so that's been really beneficial, I think, again, for us to kind of take a peek under the hood, um, and kind of go through that. We're successful, you know, on our first attempt getting permits issued within that 30-day time frame. Every project's different, and that's kind of the point of that that team. So, that's an internal team where we really kind of roll our sleeves up and get to work. And then Sarah touched on the development process improvement initiative, but that's been really more focused on hearing from external stakeholders at a high level. We may not get into all the nuance detailed weeds of every single project, but um hearing from folks in the development community, allowing them I think is always kind of an open format for them to tell us what's going on, what they're experiencing. So, >> so in that initiative um and council and councelor Leak were present in that um several of us sat I think it was all day on a day in July um through four sessions. July. >> It was on July 9th [laughter] um on through four sessions um with various individuals. Um some um were connected with HBA, others had directly reached out. Um Travis I think even went in the permanent system and found people currently in the system to reach out to. Um we wanted to talk to people across the spectrum um who were involved in this um based on their professions. So people who are developers may have very different experience than people who are builders um versus architects and it and it really helped us see the the wide array of those um things. Um through that process um there were some themes um they also complimented though staff on things that they had done over the last several years. Um some technology upgrades that they had found were helpful. um comments on those were just you know minor improvements on those um as well. So the themes that were developed um were um culture and customer service um inspections not really related towards um consistency. Often in a large organization you know one person looks at something different than another person um but we want to have consistency for our customers. um infrastructure resources isn't just physical infrastructure resources but um this is maybe more over on the public works side um just better information about what the current infrastructure is and available um the development and application of codes um you all know uh we've learned a lot about an organization called the UBCC in the last few years um and how those processes are adopted at the state and then how that impacts um here. There's a lot of recommendation that we need to be further involved in that and some of these things we we go and check on. So um and Gan will tell you a little bit more about this, but we've got we do have representation um on technical committees and OBCC. So sometimes it's just communicating those things with the public. Um re-evaluating some regulatory requirements. Um that again is with UBCC, but also um is maybe a role at this table. um depending on what the regulatory requirements are and then a lot of workflow work process um and end of process surprises. This this had a lot to do with um maybe not so much what the regulation was but just the communication about it upfront. Um going you know again big organizations so silos um and so how can people know about all of the processes up front? um hear a lot about sidewalks and a lot about trio. Um which [laughter] >> I can understand why that would have come from community. >> Yeah. So um and and I that was that was actually pretty across if I was to say one regulation that was pretty across the board. >> Um and so that under all of those themes, they had several suggested action steps. A lot of those action steps align with some action steps we're seeing out of the other work. Um we've gone ahead and taken a few and Jean's going to go over those with you. >> Cool. Yeah, thank you all. Um so yeah um we have on this slide kind of 10 initial steps that we've either have taken or in the process of taking um some before that July 9th meeting or whenever that date was. And in addition to those 21 folks who came in all day, all day on that day, I've been out in the field and listening to people almost on a daily basis um hearing both [snorts] comments, compliments, and criticisms or suggestions. Uh so I just want to make uh that clear that not everybody um is upset. Uh there are some people who say great things. Um and also it is partly in my opinion is perception of development services gets a bad rap. Um because people think, oh, permit process, but as Sarah indicated, sometimes that includes, you know, how long it takes a individual architect to do something or an engineer to respond to comments from development services or inspections or planning. And so a lot of people just lump that together and say, "Oh, it took me nine months to get a permit when really it took three weeks to get the permit from when they submitted it. Um, but it took them three months for the architect to draw plans and it took them three months to go through a zoning process. So just want to kind of put that in perspective that um development services often kind of takes it on the chin for uh a lot of other things. Um so with that kind of go through some of these uh at that day all the developers are there I think it was councelor Leaken who suggested to them that we as a city or or councelor Leak and Bush would come up with kind of a quarterly progress report to keep those who came and spent their time and energy giving us feedback a quarterly progress report of here's what we've been doing or are doing in the process. So, we are working on that. I think we're slightly past that quarter deadline, but uh we are working on that. Um if we had nothing else to do, we would have done that a lot quicker. Uh there are a few other things going on around here. So, uh we are working um with getting that update so that you counselors can send something out kind of a version of what we're going through today. >> Great. Thank you. >> Um you're welcome. um the housing acceleration team Travis sort of mentioned um but in addition to kind of prioritizing specific developments and we are kind of exploring other second developments to look at but a big part of that to me is kind of takeaways. So after we issued those permits for the Tulsa Housing Authorities Hilltop project which by the way is six buildings 107 units um and we issued those permits in 30 days which is pretty remarkable I think. Um but we then kind of did a debrief both with the internal team that spent those daily meetings and with the Tulsa Housing Authority to kind of take lessons learned from that um as to if and when we do a second project what we learn and so we do that better and also things that we can take away from that process that we can apply kind of more globally to all permits. So to me, one of those kind of to the sidewalk and driveway concept, one of the big takeaways to me was during the housing acceleration team daily meetings develop individuals in the room would often say, "Well, this isn't going to hold up issuing the building permit, but at some point they're going to need XYZ permit." Um, and so I thought that was really important that a we discovered that. I'm not sure how clearly we are communicating that to applicants. And so that's one of the things we're figuring out. I'm a big fan of clear, consistent communication. If you say something 20 times, people are a lot more likely to act upon it than if you say it once. And so we are trying to figure out ways that we can be more clear upfront that when we issue a permit, here's your building permit. Here are the 10 other permits or approvals that you're going to need. Here's roughly how long they take so that the developer can then kind of put that into their planning schedule. Um so that to me is a really important takeaway from the housing acceleration team. Uh housing forward um was mentioned earlier that um they are a great resource. uh in addition to the advocacy and policy work they're doing um we have a they agreed to donate some of their time I think council approved a donation services agreement from them a few months ago and that's kind of more towards the communication um I think as Sarah mentioned development services have been doing a lot of work we have the smart growth America recommendations kind of issued early this year um and just in the regular course of business development services constantly looking at processes and improvements that they can make and making them I think we as a city haven't been as good as we could be about communicating that. So, um, to council Bush's point earlier, I think some developers have a perception or had a bad experience that might have been a couple years ago, but they don't know that we've changed. And so, they're often saying, "Oh, I had a bad experience in Tulsa x number of months or years ago. I'm not working there anymore. They're too hard to deal with." So, part of what the housing forward has agreed to do is kind of help us get the word out. So, it's one thing if we say it, it's another thing of housing forward who hopefully is an independent third party has a better reput has a different reputation and they can help us spread the word of the improvements that we have made and are in the process of making. Um, so I'm really excited about that. Uh, the pre-development meetings, um, as you probably all know, uh, kind of bigger developments before they submit their building permits, they typically have a pre-development meeting where all the different departments come and provide feedback. Um, we've talked about some ways that we can kind of streamline those processes. So, for example, typically that it is left to the development team to kind of take notes uh on those meetings. We think it might be more helpful if somebody from city staff takes notes. Um and that way we can kind of have a consistent format that those n notes take and we can make sure that those notes are what we actually said during those meetings and what our expectations are. So, we're working on some improvements to that process which again will make the whole from that date to the actual submission of permits and the review process a lot smoother um and more consistent. Uh, I just recently learned what the OUBCC is, the Oklahoma Uniform Building Code Commission. Uh, quite a mouthful, but um, as Sarah indicated, right, we have this had city legal department looked into that. We do have representation from city staff on that. Um, and so we are um, involved in that. Um, and there's also kind of a state advocacy as mentioned. Housing forward has done a lot of work. They made recommendations. They went up to Oklahoma City earlier this summer um, and made some recommendations. Based on those recommendations, the OUBCC created a whole new committee um to kind of explore simplifying requirements. So, um for kind of the missing middle three to eight unit buildings um kind of um simplifying some requirements. For example, there's two different codes. There's the international building code that is triggered at I think four or more units. That also applies to like airports and manufacturing facilities. Uh and then the residential code which is like three or fewer units. So, look and and like where when fire suppression is required. So this new committee is looking at those issues that would make recommendations to the full committee the commission sorry uh which then might make changes at the state level which we could then adopt. Um so and obviously we're we're trying to balance uh we we're not interested in compromising safety. We're not saying we should never have fire suppression. We're just trying to figure out what the best balance is as to when that should be triggered because obviously there's a cost with imposing maps. So we're trying to be comprehensive and and realistic about um changes that are made. um legal analysis of city code. Um there were some conversations at that day that developers said, "Well, even if the state code says this, the city can make changes and we can do different things." And so we had city legal look at that. That's not actually correct. Uh we cannot be more lenient than the state code. Uh there are some possibilities that we may have some flexibility around interpretation. Um and so we are again looking at that and trying to figure out um what sort of interpretation we make. But obviously we need to be consistent and again communicate that clearly. So that's an ongoing process that we are uh exploring. Uh fasttrack permits uh you probably all know I think you had to uh act on this but in July the city reinstated a fasttrack permit uh process which had been going on in years past. I think fell off uh during COVID. So we've reinstated it and this is a program for interior residential remodels um that permits can be issued in one day. Um, so that's kind of a step in the right direction. Uh, small task because we don't want to say all permits can be issued today and not be able to meet [clears throat] demand. Uh, so we have uh had a number of those permits issued. We're kind of continuing to review that process and see is it is it working great? Should anything need to be anything that needs to be tweaked or adjusted or if and how we can expand that. So um again we're we're trying things on small scales to make sure that we can do it right and then figuring out ways to uh do more uh exploring software efficiencies. Um we've met with some service providers to explore different options. Um but obviously that requires funding and time to implement and changes. So not necessarily the best idea, but we're at the same time looking at ways that we can use the existing software that we have more efficiently. Um, and so we just had a meeting last week with half a dozen different departments on making sure that they are all using the same software. So apparently there are some some reviews that uh for either sidewalks or driveways or easements that each department has to look at it and the second department can't look at until the first department does and they either walk it from one department to another or send an email. And we're trying to figure out ways that maybe we can have more departments look at it at one time and or be in the same system so that department two can see in the system, oh, department one approved it, now it's my turn instead of having to wait for that email or or physical walk. >> Is that the Taylor system? >> Uh, it's gov uh which I think used to be. Yeah, I think Tyler is the company. Energ is the system if I'm >> Thank you. >> close to correct. Um >> um also kind of back to one of the um housing forward communication concepts as as we're working with housing forward, they are kind of sitting down with with the development service department to figure out what our processes are and what software systems we use. One of the benefits that we've identified or one of the issues we've identified is right now when when [snorts] a developer submits an application say for a single family home they submit a permit the developer can choose to be the contact person and so they are the ones who get notified uh when development services does the review and issues comments. We're talking about for again on on a pilot basis trying to make sure that the owner of the property is also included as a contact. The developer can issue can decide how many contacts are issued. they can put in their developer and the builder and the contractor and the fire or they can just do themselves. And I think for simplicity sake often times they just do themselves which means that when they get the comments it's up to them to update their client as to what happens. And so kind of my earlier point I think there's this perception of oh I submitted it to the city and the city took x number of months to review it which may not always be 100% accurate. uh sometimes the city responds very quickly and it's that developer or contractor or builder who may not get to it or may not update their client very immediately. So we are um exploring the ways of making sure that the owner is included as a contact as a required field so that they get notice at the same time as their builder or developer um because I know we just built our house and if we got notices from the city I would be on my contractor to respond to them quickly. Um so that's just another kind of takeaway from one of the things that we're already doing. Last two things and then I'll shut up. um sidewalk driveway process. Um the planning department is doing a survey. They've reached out to 60 cities um looking at policies related to sidewalks, [snorts] when sidewalks are required, when developers can choose to pay a fee in loo um cost sharing programs, things like that. So far, 20 cities have responded. Um and so the planning department is still kind of working on getting more followup and kind of evaluating that data. Uh we'll come up with some suggestions or best practices that we'll make recommendations. Uh so again, more to come. Uh and then lastly, number 10, sidewalk uh sidewalk driveway process. Um sorry, I might have gotten mixed up backwards somewhere here, but um as I mentioned, that was kind of one of the permits that we've talked about through the housing acceleration team. That is typically an issue that's raised towards the end, but if we can identify it up front and say, "Hey, you're going to need this sidewalk driveway permit. When you get your permit, it typically takes 60 to 90 days. You develop a plan accordingly." Um, I think that'll make kind of avoid some of these last minute surprises that we we've heard about. Um, so, uh, in summary, there are a lot of good conversations going on, a lot of work being done. Um, staff is doing some amazing things. Um, and we're continuing to evolve. It's not just kind of a oneanddone thing, but we are constantly going through the process. Um, and I'm looking forward to the momentum continuing as we continue to make process. Happy to answer any questions you all may have. >> Yeah, you have a question. I do. >> You had the floor to begin with. You can jump right back in there. >> Oh, well, I'm used to getting in queues. >> We're very casual. >> Well, I'm in queue. >> The other CP is in Q. >> I know there's been a lot going on, [clears throat] but I have had some of those developers ask about the quarter, our first report. Can [snorts] you give me an idea of when that's going to be available? >> In the next few weeks. >> So, before Christmas. >> Yes, absolutely. Before Christmas. Hopefully before Thanksgiving. >> Before Thanksgiving. Yeah. >> We are working on a draft to get to you all for input and feedback to send. >> We will be even more thankful. >> Yes. >> Yes. We'll celebrate. >> All right. CD2. >> Okay. >> So, if I steer the car into incoming incoming traffic, steer me back the other way. Uh, so I have go back a slide if you would real quick. So, I had some questions. Um, one of the things that I was kind of uh kind of interested in when we were in Salt Lake City and some other of the other cities that I've seen, why do we not impose an impact fee as part of development? Has that ever been discussed? >> I don't know the answer to that. It hasn't been discussed in my 10 months here. Okay. because I consider sidewalks and driveways as part of infrastructure, right? And as we have these conversations about infrastructure, >> these developments um some of them are hyper scaled >> uh when you have RS5s RS5 and you have lack of infrastructure >> um and you have fewer opportunities to advocate for capital improvement funds. Why aren't we imposing or considering the uh impact fees as part of developments? And then let me add to that question by with a second piece. I've heard rumor that folks who do development locally uh when they're complaining about this process, their plans aren't fully mature or their designs and things that come to the table. So the folks, this is just rumor, so I'm not pointing who I I'm not going to name who I heard it from. >> I hear that, too. >> But what I have heard is that local developers are really the cause of their own pain pain points with the city of Tulsa. Anyone outside of the city of Tulsa who does business with the city of Tulsa through this same process doesn't have these pinch points. So >> that's pretty general. answer that answer to that rumor if you've heard that. >> I'll I'll try to answer both those questions and then others can fill in. But I think on the first question, um again, I'm not aware of it. Something we can look into. I think sidewalks as part of that policy recommendation that may be something that comes up but it's also kind of a twosided coin of you know we hear development is difficult in Tulsa and so adding impact fees obviously adds to cost and so yes that is a way of funding things but on the flip side of that that's going to then make that house more expensive if the developers because developers not just going to pay an impact fee out of their pocket they're going to add that to the price so it is something we will look at and I I will get back to you all with some more information I I checked here with the table nobody has a lot of feel information about that but um we can look into certainly the pros and cons a possibility I'll just add it has been discussed I just >> the two of us and others but just haven't been in the room in those conversations I mean it's Oklahoma City has impact fees my understanding >> um so it's it's been discussed but we'll have to yeah >> yeah I'd like some exploration of that publicly right >> because that's always a concern when you do hypers scale developments is having the most developable space in the city. I constantly have high density development requests come and there's not infrastructure to support that. Even councelor Dector right and I and understanding what development is coming, we planned ahead for a specific [snorts] corridor. So the next bite, these folks are going to have to live for a decade with [clears throat] that development till we can get to the next iteration of capital improvement and fight for the construction funding. And so that's kind of the challenge. And I've seen where cities have been able to create sustainable growth by charging those impact fees. >> Yeah, I know it's going to be a cost to the developer. It's going to be a cost on the front end, >> but at the same time, they're the beneficiaries of that infrastructure improvement. So >> it also affects infill, by the way. >> Yeah. >> Like D9 is all infill. So they take away a little bungalow that's tying into a 1 in >> with a McMansion that needs a 6 in. >> I mean it causes problems which is why D9 is also completely underwater >> and so [clears throat] going to number seven on your list here. >> I can answer your second question first. >> Oh yeah, I'm sorry. >> I want I have heard similar forgot about my rumors. >> That's okay. I have heard similar rumors. Um, and I think there is there is some truth [clears throat] to it. Again, I don't I don't want to generalize and throw, you know, 100 developers in in one bucket. Um, but I have also heard similar rumors both externally and internally. Uh, and there is I will say there I think there is some truth to that. I think some developers kind of again to my initial point, there is some perception of, oh, I'm just going to submit it to the city and that way I can tell my client that I've submitted it and then, you know, blame the city when it takes them two weeks to get back to to me. and and the the response is you have not you know so we're talking about again communicating that and also like whether we should reject it if there isn't some level of completion um right just reject it you have not submitted complete plans we're not because it takes time right and and so we are trying to be >> customer serviceoriented but you know we shouldn't be doing the professionals consultants jobs for them either so um it is an issue that has come up we are having conversations about it um we are also yeah stuff Yeah, because we did hear from some of those that were at the table that some contractors >> they just let the city of Tulsa do the work. >> Pencil sketch and that's >> this was kind of what the fire, right? And [clears throat] so we even talked about a school of some sort or a training. It's like you can't submit something until you go through our training on what it is. I mean we've we kicked around a bunch of ideas that day. >> Yeah. So we're still exploring those options. We're still exploring ideas of, you know, it the the the the scale of that problem and ways to address it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz this even when the fire marshals were here, I think it was last year, and they were talking about the submission of fire suppression plans and they were actually having to tell them and design the plans for them. So, I want to make sure that people really understand the message about doing business with the city is that the truth and not necessarily the uh >> false claims and perceptions that are that are communicated. >> Can I just add a little flavor to that counselor? So part of you know this it's harder to do development or you know for out of state is easier local kind of what you were saying conversations that I've had some of that's because the work that a lot of these larger groups do nationally they're dealing with much large you know restrictive regulatory requirements. If you think about like coastal cities and things that they've got to deal with environmentals and different like we don't do we don't require that. we don't have you submit permits or reviews or etc. And so I think for some people that's why they come to Tulsa and it's like you just need these XYZ things. That's great. I don't have to go through all these other reviews and permits. Man, this is the best place to come and do business, right? >> Because it's a lot easier than some of the things they have to deal with in other cities from that perspective. >> But I personally, if that's your profession, if you're a developer and a builder, you need to adhere to the standards. [snorts and clears throat] Yeah. You should know what you're what's expected of you. If if this isn't your first bite at the apple, you should already know what's expected of you. >> And real quick, if I could add one more thing, we are also kind of exploring ways to kind of um share data um about our average processing review time. So, you know, how long it takes development services to respond once they get something, right? And then the flip side of that is then how long they're waiting. We are waiting. So, we review something typically, I think Michael Craig was wrong, on an average of 10 days we're responding. Um, but it then may then take architect, engineer, builder three months to get around to it and provide feedback, right? But then they add that to the whole process. And so then the the the con the rumor or the the conversation is, oh, it took four, you know, four months. Well, we can't control how quickly people respond to us, but again, we're taking the the blame for that time. So, we're trying to use data to tell our story um and figure out ways of kind of incorporating some of that information maybe on our unit tracker or things like that where we track just trying to be transparent and accountable um but also um dispel some rumors. >> Oh yeah. >> So, going back to number seven right on your fasttrack purpose. So, smaller developers where they've done a throw a name because I don't know a lot of different developers. So too that I do know Casey Robinson and Mark Ruiz who do smaller type developments, right? And alternative housing solutions of duplexes and things of that nature where we [clears throat] have good vetted small developers. Do we give them some sort of concierge type service to get [laughter] them through the process quicker so that they can get housing >> uh or rehabilitation of structures faster? >> Yes. Uh we have implemented a community builder program which is a pilot which is exactly that. So for um a few small developers who have multiple properties, yes, they have a concierge. Jesse Marorrow uh is their one point of call. He gave them their p his personal cell phone in a kickoff meeting we had. Um and both on the construction side and on the code enforcement side, he is intended as their one-stop shop. So if they have issues with code enforcement, he they call him, he works with the code enforcement team. He also works the development services team. So yes, we are trying that on a pilot basis because we don't have like, you know, if we make one person be a concierge for every single developer in Tulsa, they'll be overwhelmed. We don't have the resources to do that. But we've tried with a small group of developers who have anywhere from 10 to 100 properties. They give us the list of properties so that if code enforcement gets a complaint, uh Jesse will reach out to them and be like, "Hey, we got a complaint about this property of yours. Fix it right away." Uh code enforcement will still do their normal process, but the hope is that it can get fixed a lot quicker and more efficiently this way. And then the benefit to the developers is yes, they have an issue uh with permits or anything, they get expedited service. And I think we're working on a draft ordinance which will come to you all hopefully soon uh to explore potentially for this group uh reduced fees or lean waiverss um for you know that might have been uh leans that might have been imposed on properties before they acquired them. Um, so we're we're exploring more options that we can try to provide to incentivize these builders and developers to take uh dilapidated, problematic unsafe unsanitary properties, turn it back into productive, hopefully housing that's affordable. Obviously, >> and I think that's the model for some of these developers. So, I appreciate that. >> Yes. >> And finally, the last thing I would say is thank you to Michael because anytime you go to Michael, >> he makes sure you know exactly what's going on with some of the concerns that you have. So, thank you to you and your staff. of what Dean said. >> Well, you have to come up here, Michael. >> Yeah. >> Well, folk folks like Mark Ruez, you know, who who are doing like duplexes and other folks that are doing multiples of things, if they will tell us up front, you know, >> add on to what Jean said so that she guys know what we try to do in development services. um you know, my staff, you know, are always trying to find ways to help people. And if we find out that, hey, we have a development or we have six or seven lots that are all going to be the same duplexes, then if they'll share that plan with us rather than just turning stuff in and so staff don't realize that they're all the same, >> then we can review one and then that speeds up the process on the other ones because we don't necessarily have to go in there and look at them to the detail that we did on the first one. And and so when folks like Mark Ruez reach out to me, then I'm coordinating with staff across the divisions to make sure that everybody understands what's taking place and it ends up speeding up processes and it it ends up speeding up our ability to get reviews done. And so we have that happen on apartments like Vista Shadow Mountainer which is now the heights of 61st. We have it on many other apartment projects that are going on in the city and other types of projects. And then I think that that one thing that I see with out of state people versus instate is out of state people ask a lot of questions. They and it and it's like what uh Jean and and Travis said is is they're really excited that a [snorts] lot of things that other cities make them do we don't require but then they ask questions and then they follow everything to the tea where local folks just because they've been doing it so long with it doesn't matter how many checklists we have what our website says how to do the process they get this feel of they think they know how to do it and when they turn stuff in they miss things, you know, and even when we have pre-development meetings, you know, we go over things and it's like, well, we talked about it at the pre-development meetings. How do you miss that? You know, and then it comes down just to the lack of of doing their own QAQC, which is quality assurance and quality control. You know, I'm always saying kind of taking over uh you know, Gary Magcguire is help us help you. You know, you help us >> say it like him. >> Yeah. >> Help me. Well, sometimes sometimes >> sometimes I do when you see [laughter] me walk my headset on and walking around my office, you know, listening to people on different projects and seeing the knot they've got themselves into and trying to figure out how to undo that knot so that we can get them moving forward. and and and and it's not you know permitting is this huge umbrella that involves so many different folks in the city and you never know where the knot is of where of what has been occurred [clears throat] right so oftent times I'm I'm spending a lot of time talking to other directors and and top level managers and other divisions of departments to try to figure out what the issue is so that we can figure out how to undo the knot sometimes Sometimes the knot gets so tight that [snorts] you can't figure out a solution. You just got to cut it and try to piece it back together and say, "Hey, if you'll do this, if you'll do this, this, and this, we will do this, this, and this." Because sometimes you get into this position where nobody wants to take a step forward, right? And and we have to take a leap of faith and say, "We'll make this happen in order for you to continue to go forward." And so we spend a lot of time and you know I think that yes I'm the director so when things get to me I know a lot about what happens in the city so I'm able to kind of network and get things done and and and work within my department to make things like like I'm talking about take place because oftentimes the managers or or supervisors and staff can only take something so far. they don't really know that they can, you know, h how to do some steps, right? And so that's where I step in and I'm talking to staff and managers. Well, what happens if we do this, this, and this? What what impact does that cause? >> Well, we didn't think about that. So, we got to keep going, but yeah, >> that's all really important. I will say one thing. I've got to leave for a real quick event that's being held at noon. Councelor Gilbert's going to take over, but I want to advocate real fast for those who sat around this table and gave us a lot of detailed information. They get on site, they get one piece of advice from an inspector, that inspector says, "You have to do this." The next day, another inspector comes out and says, "Oh, no, you don't have to do that at all." And they get all worked up. There's there's a lot of points of communication oftent times that they're telling us about, and they get confused. And so from their standpoint, they need city hall to speak with one voice. They need one one thing so that they know how to how to carry on. They're also very concerned about sometimes only having one point of contact where they think that they can get things off of dead center. And they do they they directly say, "Hey, if I can get to skates, then I can I can probably get this knot cut and things tied back together." But you you can't be that guy. um in all of these cases. So, there's a lot of really good constructive feedback. We can say, "Hey, um sometimes it's their fault." They're going to say sometimes it's our fault, but it's collectively uh something that we can solve together. And and I think we're going to make huge strides forward just if we focus in on these 10 points. So, it's Bellis, Dr. Wright, then Dutton, and Councelor Gilbert's going to get us back on time. [clears throat] We're like 30 minutes over. with this lineup. [laughter] >> Everything will be on time now. We're all back. >> Come on. I got to babysit, too. >> It's too um >> I'll be I'll be quick. >> All right, counselor Bellis. >> Okay, one also looking at those like software efficiencies, you know, just if that ends up having a budgetary impact or there's a recommendation that we need to look at for this year. Just flagging others hearing that to everybody. That just seems like something to follow up on. I know that, you know, especially since things tend to be licensed, cloud-based, whatever it is. It doesn't have to be a huge cost, but it sounds like potentially an investment that'll be worth making. I know I hear from constituents who are engaging with development services that they just have trouble sometimes, even though you all have like really I do think like a lot of transparency where it's like here's where you are in the process that there's other technology or platform that would help everybody just flagging that. And then um councelor Bengal like I've now like blown up your jeans phone with links because I got super into a quick deep dive about those impact fees which Oklahoma City uses. There's a website called impactpiece.com that has like surveys of like other cities and what they use those for whether it's like parks uh water and sewers like storm water um like streets just like it and I even saw some that did schools libraries you know it can really vary very of course by your government structure but that looks like a really interesting revenue stream thing OKC updated or changed theirs or maybe implemented them in 2017 and I found a PowerPoint that lays out like you know their projected revenue from that which I'm sure has grown over time seems like a really interesting revenue stream to really pursue. Um that impact view site has survey data from various years across a long list of municipalities for and it shows in granular detail what they collect revenue-wise for those things. I just want to name that I think that's something that's really worth pursuing as we have revenue discussions. Um >> so apologize for the filibuster comment. >> No, I take it back. No, it was I was just teasing. Um, and again, I've sent you all these surveys that I just found. But anyway, what I think something that's interesting there that falls within this permitting development process is sometimes you you hear this a lot about different things that if we raise a cost in X, Y, or Z, what if it deters people from investing? But I'm glad councelor Bengal already brought up [laughter] that this is money that goes right back into helping those developments um [clears throat] in a variety of ways or also offsets cost for future ones. a whole entire um PowerPoint I found again that was like presented in 2017 related to the like what OKC was working on at the time actually lays out the ways that it then helps future developments of course it then adds of course to property values as well and how they kind of divvy it up based on if it's for single family homes versus you know other types of corporate developments anyway just super interesting revenue stuff we should all pursue and again I found that really cool very in-depth website impactfviews.com that it seems like we should will delve into. So, >> awesome. >> I got excited about the revenue aspect of that. >> Okay. All right. Uh, councelor Dector, right? >> Thank you. Um, thanks for doing the work. I love that you all dovetail with the habitability working group. Um, I think some of these policies might have some crossover. I wanted to make sure that as we talk about incentivizing the things we want that we also look at the policies that we may need to prevent the activities we don't want. So, um it doesn't have to be a a conversation for today, but item number seven on fasttracking permits. I want to better understand how people become eligible for fasttracking. Um we can all think of stalled out or no momentum projects in our districts. Um and I want to make sure that in in our efforts to get those moving, we don't put people on a fast track that haven't proven to be trustworthy. Um, >> who could that? >> Uh, well, I got I got at least one in my district, but I'm looking at other people that have that. So, from a policy standpoint, we definitely need to look at that as we are trying to activate more housing, especially in conversions and um infill, right? Um, one [snorts] issue that came onto our radar over the summer is partner Tulsa gets affordable housing dollar. um funds for us. We're going to have a item before us. If if the [clears throat] developers interars on a note, they can still qualify for some of these other things because they're not like those dollars are in a separate entity. But I just think there's some of these things we need to look at as we're activating all these different dollars. Um, and then the other thing, I don't know how we could maybe put this into the permitting process or if it's already there and I just don't understand it, but how do we get confirmation that they actually have a capital stack that's actually going to lead to performance and outcomes rather than just kind of here's a thing I want to do? Um, I think of Yale a lot. There's like that big >> unfinished thing that's there. I think about 41st Street. There's just a lot of these things and I think they've got their permits, >> right? >> But as we're talking about the whole process and for outcomes, I want us to be thoughtful and there's things beyond everyone's control. >> But I do think there's probably a ven diagram of projects and or people behind them that ends up in these little places where we're then looking at code enforcement or chronic nuisance things which also cost us time and money and have impacts in the community. So it might be more of a 30,000 milei view from this which is very technical but those are the things that popped up for me. So um I think from a policy standpoint those are the things I'd like to look at and when it concerns our dollars it's the things like you're talking about like we have some projects that have been ready to go but we can't because of infrastructure. And so I want us to be able to look at like if they've done all these steps and we're ready to go, like how do we go, oh, we have these dollars that are going to come for this for our side of the fence in two years, what can we do to get them going faster? Because time is money. Time is money. And that's my frustration that I'm hearing from um developers who are either trying to make stuff go in my district or live in my district trying to make stuff go in your district or councelor Harper's district. And there's to your point a plan. We've got design. We know it's coming. But it's like how many things are we going to say sorry we can't get there with you, >> right? >> I know on one um parcel in my district, we have turned away 300 units of new apartments at least two or three times. I think fourth time might be the charm, but we shouldn't have that. >> Yep. I agree. >> So, thank you. >> Thank you. Uh councelor Dutton. >> Yeah. So, um, I was going to ask initially about the community builder pilot program. So, I'm glad that you brought that up. Um, back in February, I know it was brought to council and, um, there was discussion about a suggested six month or two-month check-in and the possibility of monthly updates to capture early operational issues. Is that something that you guys are still working on? because we haven't had any updates and um the portal to access uh to actually track the housing um publicly and what's actually going on with the program so that we can see outcomes. Um I haven't I don't have any information on that and I think it would be helpful because housing forward is partnering in that and that it would also give us insight as to the actual vacancies and what exact permitting processes are happening fasttrack permitting processes that are happening for these vacancies. >> Um >> sure. So there's a lot there. So the community builder pilot program took a little bit longer than we hope to get off the ground. We just had a launch I think last month. Uh I don't remember October >> is September October. I think it was September maybe. Um so we haven't we'll we'll we'll figure out a time to update you all. Um but it has launched. Uh we just I just had an conversation with Jesse kind of who's the concier administering that program the point of contact of the developers who have applied and who we talk to and communicate with. So we'll work on getting you an update on that. >> Well that would be really helpful. I mean, and that way we would know progress and who's doing what I because I think that we're still kind of in the lurch as to who's doing what and where and the cost involved as well. And the pilot program, how long is it expected to go? >> Um, I don't know that we've set a date. Uh, we're open-ended. We'll see how it goes. We'll tweak as needed and we'll continue to keep uh going at this point. Okay. >> Keep you updated. >> What's the soonest we can get an update on? Um, I don't know, maybe January, just knowing like schedules. Yeah, January, February. We'll we'll work on figuring that out with with Sarah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right, Councelor Archie. [clears throat] And this is our last one on this item because we got to move on. >> Absolutely. So, thank you all for being here. Very great presentation. We uh, you know, we have the housing goals. We talked at the YMCA concerning um, permitting fees. I don't know, I'll call them the Midtown McMansions. And and um my question is thinking about our our density goals, is there room to adjust some of those fees um to sort of encourage folks uh you know for density or is or is that also with impact fees? Is that kind of rolled into that or >> so? Similar conversations but different I think right impact fees we [clears throat] don't currently charge. That would be something we would have to decide as a policy to start implementing. Uh permit fees we do currently charge, but again that would be a policy discussion to determine whether we adjust them based on size or affordability or things like that. I think you all would have to determine that. So that' be an ordinance that you would all have to vote on, but we are exploring that option um to try to to try to come up with policies. And yeah, I agree. We're trying to figure out every way that we can incentivize positive behavior, especially things that we want goals towards housing and housing that's more affordable uh and make uh negative behavior, you know, um less, you know, disincentivize negative behavior. Um so that is that is a a good idea and it's something we're looking at. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. Sorry to keep you sorry to take you off schedule. >> You you weren't the only one. It's okay. It's okay. It's Phil's fault. >> Yep. So, that's why I'm going to stay here. >> Item number seven, presentation and update from council representatives on the Route 66 Commission on their or their design regarding commission activities, current projects, and centennial events. Um, Archie, Dutton, Gilbert, and Bangalore on that. >> Okay, now you're really going to see a filibuster. >> Oh, man. It's lunch time. I'm gonna set my timer. >> Well, it's not my fault we're off schedule, so don't blame me. >> Okay, you got 10 minutes. Let's go. >> All right. Obviously, so obviously Beth and Brandon uh are there as council staff. Um, so thank you for their cat hurting skills, uh, because they keep us on track, keep us on agenda, bests. There's a lot associated with this. To each of the counselors who, you know, are able to get there as their schedules will allow. Thank you for being on there. And to the council as a whole, thank you for funding uh, the centennial, right, and making it a priority because uh, Route 66 is a tourist asset. And as I learned in Detroit when we did that inner city visit, when we invest in our assets, we attract more tourism dollars. So um and then of course the commission uh and and their uh work on this as well. And then of course the three grant funding sources that we have, the facade uh vision and neon sign grants. Uh those have been great programs to revitalize the corridor >> and special events. >> Yes, and special events. Thank you. Uh which we just talked about the other day. So I'll jump into this real quick. So we're going to talk about ARPA beautifification funds, the Route 66 cruise, and then of course the mural project that's come up, which is about $100,000 if you're not aware of it. Um, so $200,000 of ARPA funds were allocated by the ARPA working group um as part of Route 66 beautifification to prepare for the centennial of 2026. 100K of that uh is allocated to public works for street sweeping and tree planting strategically um throughout the city. uh public works is spending about 57,000 uh and with up with trees to plant 100 trees prune trees along the corridor and provide uh 20 stump see I can't even speak removals and grindings of those stumps and so uh the challenge that we had initially with the RFP in the $200,000 was the second half uh of that $200,000 and what that was initially going going to go towards And so, Councelor Dutton and I and Archie and Gilbert uh talked about uh how we should reappropriate those funds specifically so that they actually went towards beautifification. So, um you'll see the that proposal. Um the balance of that 100k is allocated to street sweeping every two weeks along the route uh all through the city of Tulsa, end to end. Um the ARPA funding will pay uh from January 26th through the end of June and then of course the normal uh public works street sweeping fund will continue [snorts] throughout the rest of that year. Um so the intent in using that second 100k um just like we talked about um uh part of that being uh the trees and all that stuff the 40 we're uh asking for an allocation of 40,000 for vinyl wrap traffic control boxes along the route corridor. Um and I think that comes out to 40 different ones with little to no public art. Uh the time frame will take uh about two and a half to three and a half months uh for the RFP and selection artist contracting and installation. Um and of course there's some constraints around whether um for those to adhere to those structures. So we want to make sure we have all that in place before the centennial. um 47,48676 for 8 to 12 new historic markers that highlight untold stories along Tulsa's historic route. Um and so those um stretch all along all along Tulsa. Um and the time frame for installation is 26 weeks. So definitely want to make sure we get that done, those two projects done in my opinion. Um staying on your script as much as I can. Uh the remainder of those funds 12,513 will be used for the replacement of security camer upgraded footage storage uh for the Cyrus Avery Centennial Plaza. If you know anything about that, there's been some um destruction and uh some issues along that in that plaza. And so this will kind of help provide some security and oversight to that. So there we're not constantly having to pour funds to maintain that. Um vandalism obviously as I just stated is probably one of the biggest biggest concerns and this u will take about 30 days for installation. Then of course the big cigraw of it all is the centennial cruise. And when I heard this initially in the commission when it came to us it wasn't fully baked out. So, we've been discussing this for the last two years. As soon as it came to the table, and I immediately got excited about it. Um, if you were at the press conference that we had last month, >> last month we did the press conference out at the Admiral Twin and Councelor Dutton's district. Um, we talked about um what that cruise uh path will look like. Um and again this the restriction of this was funding and the logistics. So even though it wasn't going to stretch the entire corridor um this would allow for um us to add the other portion which we can't really announce specifically but it is going to be a world wrecking world record breaking attempt. >> Um and so there's obviously a missing piece. >> What's that? We hope we don't have wrecks like >> Yeah, exactly. Well, it should be enough that we shouldn't have that problem. >> So, there's going to be a lot put in poured into this and I think if you went to the press conference at the Admiral Twin, the backdrop that was set up for that just ensures me that we're on the right path and that um we should see significant return of investment. So, the $500,000 between uh the Route 66 Commission Reserve and $314,000 uh fully funds um that specific event. And so I fully expect us to see a full return of investment on this. And so um let me see. >> Thank you. >> So, oh that is a good point. Um the city has allocated which is us uh 500k. So of course I appreciate that which consists 180k from the vision Tulsa 2016 and 314 from the vision 2025 Route 66. So um and those really old vision funds to your little point here your notation is are from 2003. So, um, let's see. Uh, and then finally, the last piece is the mural. Um, this is about $100,000. And believe it or not, this will focus mainly in East Tulsa. >> Um, so there'll be a significant investment. I think it touches 13, five, and six if I remember correctly. Um, and so $100,000 of Vision Tulsa 2016 funding will be used to do that. 12 m murals uh uh will be strategically placed throughout the city and select they were selected by the city staff and approved by the commission. Uh the selective locations heavily focused on like I said the eastern corridor. So I would entertain any questions. >> Thank you very much. >> Visuals for this are I love the good job. >> Marissa did such a good job. It's not me. I did the content. She did the design. So, >> yeah. >> Okay. Any questions on this item? >> See, look how efficient I am. >> I know. I got like five minutes. >> You did. See, man. >> Okay. Thank you for listening and following directions. You still don't get a gold star. Um, item number eight, [laughter] discussing dogs. >> Discussion of a long-term funding strategy or strategies to support tourism efforts in the city of Tulsa. I'm going to hand it over to Sarah and Jack. >> Yeah. So, um, the timing of us having to post our agendas and your Wednesday meeting, I wasn't sure how many follow-up questions you have from Hotel Motel. There was a a question that we documented. Um, and it was just on effective date for Hotel Melto. So, right now that's proposed as a February election. if you decide to proceed with that. There was a question on on when that one versus the sales tax. So Jack has looked into that and has an update for you all. [snorts] >> Yes. So the ordinance is currently drafted has an effective date, [clears throat] excuse me, of July 1, so the start of the fiscal year, the start of calendar quarter. Statute requires excise taxes to begin at the beginning of a calendar quarter. There's also a provision for sales tax that uh you have to provide um 60 days notice to vendors. Um we've looked at that and we think because the city um implements and the taxes remitted directly to the city rather than through the tax commission. We think we can avoid the 60-day notice provision, but we think we still have to have the effective date at the start of a calendar quarter. So, the upshot of that is July 1 would be fine, but I think also April one if you really wanted to accelerate this um would would work. We looked at Oklahoma City. They adopted their ordinance on May 21st. The election was three months later on August 27th and their effective date was the start of the calendar quarter, October 1, which was a month after the election. So, I think we'd be consistent with that. If you wanted to accelerate that to April one, I think we could make that change in the in the ordinance. >> Hold on. So, um, sorry, >> that's okay. >> Um, I have Dector, right? Sure. And then >> since we know Oklahoma City did it, the business impact of this, is it just they go in their like computer system and change the rate >> or, you know, Yeah. Yeah, >> I'm just thinking like when we change addresses on businesses, it's a long process and that's really surprising what you just shared about Oklahoma City. >> I think it's [clears throat] >> Yes. And I think a large number of hotelers are kind of supportive of this and so we'll >> we'll be aware of >> it's like a fast implementation for them. It sounds like >> I we could follow up. I know Rene has done a lot of discussing of this with the hotels, so I could just reach out to her too. And >> yeah, I'm just thinking about these like conventions that have already booked, >> right? That's a significant like if you're bringing 10,000 people to town, >> that's a significant increase on their budget for like the room blocks and stuff just from my experience of been being on that side. So from the hotel's implementation, that's a question, but also like what are the impacts? And maybe Rene is like she's not worried about it, but we should just find out. I'm an unintended consequences logic model person. So, I just want to >> I I think it's smart to um >> to do, but I also >> don't know about a February day. If we call a special for hotel motel in February, there's costs associated with that. That's what like $150,000 or something. Yep. So, I just when we're literally looking for for dollars to do a lot of these priorities, I just want to be mindful about the sense of urgency um about all of these kind of revenue discussions. But I thank you for the quick turnaround on that question and it's on our agenda. It came on our draft agenda, so we'll get to talk about it more next Wednesday. So, we have some time. Yeah. >> Okay. Councelor Deon. >> So I was um unsure can we have an election on one item and not the other PSO? [clears throat and cough] >> Okay. So >> it's been proposed that they are coupled together but >> right. Okay. Yeah. So if we were to vote on the hotel year hotel motto tax in February, that would still cost 150,000 for a special election. >> February is a special >> because you have to have your precinct staffed your ballots. >> Okay. And then if we were to have uh the election in April, that would not would that still be a special election? It would be a municipal special election >> which would cause >> but there's other elections going on in the municipality. >> Okay. >> Um the point I was trying to make earlier this week is some of us do not have a TPS school board race. >> Yeah. Right. So when the idea is tossed out like oh we already have one we can just go with that. It's like no there still be definitely >> but what I heard from uh Jack is like let's say we did an April one then we would still trigger on July one because we're going with the fiscal quarters. So when we think about when [clears throat] collections come in, there is a bit of >> I guess you're saying if we go February, we could start April collections. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So I just wanted to be clear on my understanding >> um >> that we could definitely separate the motel hotel tax from >> do all of it. None of it. Some of it. Yeah. >> Some other things. I will remind everybody >> it's a cafeteria. >> February is notoriously very low. >> Yes. Yeah, I think that's a counselor. >> It is the strategy. But on something like Hotel Motel, which we're pretty much all in agreement, we need it. And >> what if because of low voter turnout, it doesn't >> Right. Right. >> pass, right? I mean, I just think there's a lot of considerations. There are a February ballot. >> We also have a municipal race election day in August. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> For all municipal questions, concerns. >> Well, yeah. I I'll just keep saying it. It's already on the budget to pay for. >> Well, and then we wouldn't have to pay for it, right? >> Well, we do have to pay for it, but it's not the 150. >> I mean, it would be for all the things all those are good questions. >> You have to think about how these all interact. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> And we do have a OMG franchise agreement that has to I don't know what the timing of that is, but that is also something we >> putting in the works >> on the ballot for 26 >> looking at August. We looking at >> Oh, we're looking at August. So, lots of questions. Makes a lot of sense to be efficient. >> I saw them coming. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Ding ding ding ding ding. >> The people who really care about Tulsa will show up in August. >> They will because it also gives us time to educate them. >> That is a charter amendment. >> That is one thing that I've um I'm working on as like with Oh, I'm so sorry. [laughter] >> Sorry. >> Have over talking. I'm so excited to be here. >> I'm trying to >> I said sorry. So that's everyone. >> Thank you. [laughter] >> Um so I um one of I've gotten and I'm sure we all have a lot of constituent questions about right timing and all sorts of next steps related to this whole array of topics. And one of the things I know is also that from the time we determine that something's on a ballot, city resources can't then like the education discussions that we might want to go have about all these different >> it has to be external because then it's from the time you go it's going to be on a ballot now it's campaigning and city resources can't go to it. So, I just want to factor that into when we're talking about timing for whether it's like lodging tax or any other of these ballot issues [clears throat] is that from the second we draw that line and say, "Hey, if we're going to put this on a ballot and it's going to be on this date," then those kinds of town hall functions with city like support and time and staffing that shifts. And so, that really does affect our ability to have community conversations with in a city supported way. And I think that's a really key thing for us to think about as we think about the timing of when we're putting things onto different elections dates. Yeah. >> Okay. Councelor Dector Wright, >> can can we get from Renee McKenna in her next week? Um, so it is Route 66 Centennial. Obviously, people come to see Route 66 now. They'll come in 2027, whatever. [snorts] But is there already an idea in our hotel year community of like that peak time that people are staying in hotels? And if the answer is yes, like from a revenue standpoint, it's like, oh, we should >> increase so we get the revenue. From a welcome to our city, you've planned your family trip here for two years and now I don't know even what the impact on like a regular person's bill would be. Um, that I just don't understand. And and is it enough to be like, well, I'll go stay down the street in the next largest city that doesn't have that on their hotel motel. Right. I mean, >> it's like $425 per >> 100 bucks, >> right? >> So, to your point, the centennial that May 30th date is going to be our expected high. >> Well, I don't know. That's maybe the start from the hotel year standpoint. I don't know. Right. Like that's what we're focused on. >> That's going to be our high point. >> Yeah, that's what we're focused on. But I mean, summer travel also tends to be the higher time. I just want to make sure again >> if we can just say it's not it's negligible or it would be beneficial to do it. You know, um what Jack was saying, I don't know if you heard it, but if we go February, then collections could start April. If we do later than February, then the next opportunity would be July because they're on fiscal quarters for collections. >> Yeah. And and that's what I try that's what I asked Renee last well Wednesday. It seems like it was last week. >> Two days ago. >> Two days ago. And yeah, Feb February would allow us to collect whenever this was taking place >> sooner. Yeah. Yeah. >> Council Bush, >> quick question just because I'm new. Do Airbnbs, VRBOs, do they get taxed? Is that part of hotel >> if they have five rooms or more? >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions on that? We just have um I just want one comment that >> we have a lot of affordable motel on the east side in district three. So that [laughter] that 4% might not even be noticed. [laughter] >> I had to throw that out there >> for like those $50 a night Airbnbs. >> Yeah, >> only five rooms though. >> Five rooms or five bedrooms? >> Four rooms total. >> As long a studio. >> All right. U moving on. Item number nine, facilitated discussion and debrief of the agenda items listed above. as well as discussion of next steps and items for future consideration in the FY 262.7 budget process. So, I think for today because we are running up and I know people had some some times that they needed to go. Let's kind of quickly go over some follow-up items from the earlier discussion and make sure we captured everything. Um, currently the mayor council retreat, the next one I think is held on January 9th is a date on your calendar. Um, and so we obviously have time to talk in December if we want to do some more preparation for that retreat. But recapping today's conversation on early settlement, we want to start now reaching out to our partners rather than waiting into the future. Um, we talked about our overarching public safety goals and there's potentially two paths to those. That more traditional view of public safety versus kind of those community indicators of public safety, quality indicators and neighborhood condition index. Um, on Mayor's Office of Children, youth and family, we want to keep monitoring um, our initial investment and those outcomes. Um, we didn't say this actually in homelessness earlier, but I wrote it down. Look at all of you just taking pictures. So cute. [laughter] >> I want Well, yeah. I wanted to take a picture of you taking a picture. [laughter] >> I don't want to be. >> So, uh, you didn't say this today on homelessness, but I I've watched a few of your discussions on that. Um, and one I I've heard kind of this theme of I want kind of an overall comprehensive financial strategy um on homelessness. what is our one-time investment, what are our ongoing, what are our potential revenue buckets for that. >> Um, not just kind of uh programmatically. Um, and then another was actually councelor Bengal, I think you said this the other day, more of a 32.0. So I call it a a comprehensive collaboration as we implement like so many great programs um to keep not only us internally but our external partners um all on the same page moving forward. um on animal welfare. Um your kind of two takeaways that that we documented today were upstream investments of spayneuter. If we did um you know one large investment, how does that um impact even the staffing strategy, the kind of staff, the number of staff that we need and then the state policy and regulations, what could change there that could really help us out, especially as an urban area versus rural. um fines and fees, the big push to finish our program evaluation. Um looking also at how can we reduce cases um through different methods that municipal court mentioned versus increasing operational cost. Um there's definitely a trend in jail volume um when they talk about our ability to handle that. I don't think they're talking about the people in the jail working. I think they're talking about um the court staff to handle a jail volume um and the public defenders needed and and the additional court staff to help process those. Um get a check-in update once that new um collections ordinance has had time to really go into effect. Um and then the further breakdown which they have of the demographic program use but just getting you um those items on prehosp um it's we have an update on those two job descriptions but there was a concern on funding positions and then the time it has taken to get those job descriptions. So maybe um that might be even outside of of prehosp a look at that. Continuing on the RFP process as planned and then there was a costbenefit um discussion between different technologies um and the capabilities that they offer. And then Gelato was just a who has access to that kind of update that we'll look at getting. Then we moved on to development services. um we will issue that report back to those people who uh donated their time to us um to give us their input and their feedback. Um we're we'll say Thanksgiving um as that time. Um looking at policy, we all we all learned a new website today, impactfees.com.org. >> It was.com >> and and counselor maybe Bellis and Bengal have have started something new here on >> I think so. Um I'm already talking to Housing Ford about finding us like an expert to talk about it so we could like follow up more. >> Yeah. So um >> they did flag that we shouldn't apply it to affordable housing projects though, which is fair. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um and then um there was just a flag for software budget impacts if there are any. [snorts] Um looking at making sure those that we are fasttracking still are meeting our community standards. So understanding better the eligibility requirements for that. um and accountability generally for development. Um the examples of projects that start um and then they kind of seem to sit there and so um understand what we could do at the municipal level and then just a general community builder program update. The project launched in I think they said September so probably a February update. Um and then Hotel Motel is on your 1:00 next week. Um I I don't know that Renee is available. Hopefully someone from the chamber will be here. Um but looking at the impact of election timing and also some of those hotel peak times um were the follow-ups from that. >> Councilor Dr. Rice. >> Thank you. On the hotel millale discussion too. As I understand it, some of the negotiations that are happening right now to bring in hotel years are predicated on some sort of rebate strategy in the capital stack and and so that timing thing I think we need to understand again. >> Yeah. >> Like in conversation [clears throat] >> how does a delay then like lose something that we're trying to get done or does it just delay it? >> Yeah. I've heard that mentioned for like two larger potential developments where like they're kind of banking on an increase of the timing >> project. I think they're using the concept of a increase as a carrot to incentivize [clears throat] jumping in. Yeah. So >> helps inform our decisions if we know all the implications. >> Any other questions? Yes, councelor Benel. >> Just one quick one. Gelato, >> I kind of want to add that to the homelessness thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It would I think the question was who in TPD has access and who in the other um provider space. >> Maybe it's like across the way for Tulsa too. Like just like getting an understanding of how integrated it is. >> Okay. >> Because I brought that up to Mark Smith when I had a meeting with him the other day >> because it is hardly prepared for it. >> Yeah. Well, different case management softwares like it's like what talks to each other. How are people doing this case? >> Yeah, >> I really enjoyed this process and I'm really grateful to our staff and to all of you for coming in an extra day. But >> this is different way of doing it and I approve. >> This is really good. This is >> it's very good information coming out today. So I know we all have our own little working groups and everything and we all know what each other you know those working groups are doing but for all of us to have this discussion and uh transparency to everybody else what's been what everyone has been working on has been fantastic. >> Oh I got one more comment >> and we need this kind of time for two times. >> I'd like to thank the vice chair for like shortening this a little bit. >> Yeah. The immediate pastor has her favor. Oh, >> that's that's why I I have been subjected to this item. [laughter] >> Whatever councelor Harper, >> can we take somebody's sausage? [laughter] >> You may take some. >> Okay. Any other questions, comments? >> Thank you.