This transcript identifies the speakers based on the municipal context provided. Please note that **Allan** refers to the City Attorney (common in Minnesota municipal proceedings), though he is not explicitly listed in your provided staff roster, he is identified by name in the dialogue. *** **[0:22] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** We good? It's 6:50. We'll call this meeting to order. Um, everyone is here except for um, Council Member Sperl, who has an excused absence this evening. We will begin with the call this public forum. **[0:42] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Um Barton, would you like to speak? >> Okay, >> we forgot that. Go ahead. >> We don't. >> It's not on our agenda. Barton, would you like to speak? **[0:58] Barton Winter:** Barton Winter, 15 Oaks Lane. And um I again want to reiterate that I appreciate the chance to flood the rink this season. And uh I got to have it mostly the way that I want it. So, uh, I I do have um um some complaints, which I I don't always want to be complaining, but I reiter I I spoke last time about um problems with the snowblowing when we had to snowblow in the first part in December and how uh I felt that we got delayed by our city employee. **[1:37] Barton Winter:** And uh so what I really want is u a different large snowb blower one that's reliable and and I I want to have access so that I can do the snowblowing when it needs to be done and it's not a a difficult task. **[1:56] Barton Winter:** um on the line of uh our city employee who I have worked with him and and I don't want to say that I've never worked with him but um you know some issues about things leaving the premises down at the warming house. most prominent is uh two yellow scrapers that were in the shed and we had used them sporadically and on or about January 1st they both were gone and never to be seen again right and um I did ask the mayor in a text and he got back to me and said oh well Jim says he doesn't know where they are okay then later February I spoke with Allan and uh **[2:45] Barton Winter:** he said it's talked with Jim and Jim told him he had them in the back of his pickup and uh that these were in poor poor condition and he made uh a discretionary decision so that he took them out of the shed. Well, I'm saying one that you know he should have let everybody know that hey if if they're not acceptable then we need to replace them right away. It's not a big deal. $50 a piece and Fatalone has got those. They got the exact ones. **[3:13] Barton Winter:** So, I didn't like that. And also the um ring close sign disappeared from the the shed, too. And I believe that was Jim acting under his authority uh what he considered to be his authority. But, you know, we needed that and I wanted to know where it was and and I got no response. **[3:33] Barton Winter:** So um I'm complaining too about um just recently we had uh a warmup in February and uh the mayor decided to close the rink on or about let's say Thursday, February 18th or 19th and uh I did present some information about oh it looks like it's getting colder and uh initially they presented a warm forecast then they were uh scaling that back. It was going to be colder and we still had quite a bit of ice and I I wanted uh Allan to show these photos. Is that going to happen or **[4:16] Allan (City Attorney):** um working on it? **[4:16] Barton Winter:** Oh, okay. Well, maybe it won't happen. >> **Allan (City Attorney):** Show them on the video, but in person. >> **Barton Winter:** Okay. Well, anyway, there was the um figure skating or pleasure rink was fully covered with ice on u February 19th or so 20th and we had cold weather and the uh the hockey rink was like I'd say about 80% covered with ice. So I I implored the the mayor. I thought in my understanding May March 1st was our cut off deadline for closing the warming house and she didn't want to do it. And I I thought well you know give me some kind of a bonus for doing all this work and could have at least flooded the figure skating rink with ease, right? And had something that lasted. **[5:03] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay, Barton. Um your time is up so can you wrap it up, please? **[5:03] Barton Winter:** Okay. And uh you know just in general I'm I'm not too happy about the fact that uh it seemed like communication disappeared in February. I was the mayor had been gone out of town and then uh when she was back and I knew she was back there just wasn't any response and she wanted to make a decision about the rink without me. And you know I wasn't too happy about that. and then trying to talk with Allan about it and um you know he was like well I don't know anything or or it's none of your business but you know that those are not friendly kind of things to deal a way to deal with me and uh so I'm um I'm unhappy with that too thank you **[5:49] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** thank you Barton **[5:49] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** thanks for all your work this winter Barton **[5:49] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** rink was lovely **[5:49] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** yeah I I will say I heard compliments from a lot of people on on how nicely It was done that down there. So, **[5:49] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** my daughter and her friends love. **[6:10] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** I just meant a thank you. Is anyone else here to speak during the public forum? Um, seeing nobody, public forum is closed. We are um fortunate this evening to have Chief Greg Peterson here from the **[6:26] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Could we approve it? **[6:26] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Oh, yes. Sorry. Sorry, Chief Peterson. It's >> **Chief Greg Peterson:** okay. >> **Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Just make the anticipation. >> **Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Oh, yeah. Could I get a motion to approve the agenda? >> **Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** So moved. Kathy, **[6:53] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I would like to make an addition, please. Um, I'd like to add an item relating to the hiring of the deputy city administrator, please. **[6:53] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Where do you want to put it? um **[7:10] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** with I mean it it's going to go along with the treasures report which I'm going to pull out. So I don't know if you want to order it there **[7:10] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** or if **[7:10] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I would put it as number three under city business. **[7:10] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Then put it as number three under city business. And what is the topic? **[7:10] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** um the hiring of the deputy city administrator Genevieve Beold. **[7:31] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Anything else? **[7:31] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** No. **[7:31] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay. **[7:31] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Kathy, can we amend your motion? **[7:31] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Yes. Uh with the addition >> **Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** addition of number three, deputy admin hiring Genevieve. I Okay, accept the >> **Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Could I have a second, please? **[7:48] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Second. **[7:48] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** All in favor? >> **Council Members:** I >> **Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes. Thank you. Um, now we have Chief Peterson. Chief Chief Peterson is from the White Bear Lake Fire Department. And White Bear Lake, for those of you who might not know, um, they service us for fire protection and EMS. Yeah. So, thank you, Chief. **[8:23] Chief Greg Peterson:** Thank you for having me out. I've got a brief presentation. I know you guys working on IT issues. So, if it comes up, great. If not, I'm just going to use it to guide my conversation so I don't forget anything. So, thank you. Like, like the mayor said, Greg Peterson, the fire chief for White Bear Lake. Just a reminder to everybody. So, we cover the city of White Bear Lake, the township, Birchwood, Delwood, and Gem Lake. So, it's about 35 square miles. It's a very large area. It's over 38,000 people that we serve. So, it's a a pretty pretty good size area and pretty good uh I have a very nice picture of our department members here on the screen. So, our staffing is myself uh in full-time. I have two full-time assistant chiefs, three full-time captains, 15 full-time firefighter paramedics and three full-time firefighter EMTs and then also eight firefighter EMTs. So we have a pretty good sized department able to respond to a lot of calls, a lot of simultaneous calls that are going on. Last year we had about a 7% increase in our call volume which um during COVID just after COVID we had a high highest run volume ever was just over 5200 and then it went down the last two years which was a little bit surprising but we had some frequent flyers that um passed away and so that made enough of a a drop that our call volume went down but I I I figured that was only going to last for so long and I and my guess was right. Um and so it went up. It was due to a lot of different reasons but nonetheless it's on on the rise again. So our demographics within our whole response area uh is about 64% of the people are over the age of 60 um which is pretty significant to us. Um and then that group is supposed to double um from 2024 to 2075. So, what does that mean for us as the department that provides firefighting and EMS coverage in the area? Means we're going to continue to get busier and busier um because of of the call demand, which is is fine. We're aware of that. Um we plan for that. The uh last in in 2024, uh the Minnesota fire death, there was 67 fire deaths. Um 63% of them were 61 years or older. Um, and this is something we've seen since I've been chief. Uh, the the fatalities that we've had are all older adults. Um, and so the the the issue with that is mobility issues and then proper notification and being able to just simply get out in a timely fashion because fires uh are burning hotter than and faster than ever. Um and so the US Fire Administration, adults 65 plus have had 2.3 times greater um likelihood of a fatality in the fire than the average population. **[11:06] Chief Greg Peterson:** And so again, we we've seen that um if you could see my screen, so la in 2024 our call volume was 4,784. Last year was 5,112. And so it kind of dipped down and went back up again. And we anticipate that'll that'll keep happening. Most of what we do is EMS calls. So we provide, you know, fire, rescue, all hazards type of response. Most of what we do is EMS calls. So about 72% of our call volume is EMS and 28% of it is is everything else. The five most common types of EMS calls, six person, breathing problems, psychiatric problems, falls in unconscious. And pretty much every year, year after year after year, those five categories are are the same all the time. Our department was recognized again last year for from the Office of EMS uh for clinical excellence. So the national average for cardiac arrest survival is just over 9%. Ours last year was just over 30%. Um so it's pretty phenomenal. A lot of that had to do with citizen CPR. So encourage anybody that's watching out there to learn CPR if you don't know it. The sooner that can happen, the better off it is and then we can get there with the advanced skills and take care of people after that. We also started a program uh using IV acetaminophen. So this isn't like over the counter. This is a vial, a heavy duty dose of acetaminophen. And what we're trying to do is reduce the amount of people that are on narcotics. And so a lot of times people's narcotic use start with a a broken this or a broken that or surgery and then they get onto those drugs and that feels really good and then they have a hard time, you know, getting over that or letting that go. So they're doing this also in the hospital a lot. **[13:00] Chief Greg Peterson:** We're the first uh EMS agency at least in this state to do this program. So we're working under medical direction to do that and it's been successful thus far. We do a ton of community events. Uh, one thing I wanted to highlight was we have we created uh what's called the vile life program. Um, can I share this with you? **[13:18] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Oh, yeah. **[13:18] Chief Greg Peterson:** So this is a single approved basic medical emergency and we if they'd like to have one. It has a magnet on the back so everybody has a fridge. So, we encourage people to stick it on the fridge because we can see the fridge. It's pretty obvious it's red. Um, and we within one week of us starting this program, we are at a call and it helped us figure out what was going on the patient because she couldn't speak for herself and so that worked out great. So, if you want some of these, we can drop them off here at the city for you and have them available for constituents. We started up the Citizens Fire Academy again last year. Um the sign up for that is going on right now. So if you're interested in that, it's a program. It's eight weeks long. We take everyone through like the history of the department, tours of the trucks, the stations, and then we do fire behavior, um extrication, search and rescue, all these different things that we do as firefighters. Put you in our gear, let you wear our stuff. Um, and you get to learn a lot about what our jobs are like. So, and it includes, uh, EMS stuff as well. Uh, training. Uh, you'd love this picture because the mayor is in this picture. So, this last fall, you can't see it right now. Great picture. **[14:49] Chief Greg Peterson:** She's all got all her gear on. Uh, she joined us for live fire training, which was fantastic to have her there. Um, and I don't know, Mayor, do you want to talk about that at all? Did you enjoy that? **[15:05] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** It was the highlight of last year. Hands down. **[15:05] Chief Greg Peterson:** Not Chicago Fire. **[15:05] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** No, but it was great. **[15:05] Chief Greg Peterson:** Yeah. So, it's a it's a very **[15:05] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** No, seriously, it really um was so educational. It really changes your thinking about what goes on with you guys during a fire, you know, it's um really eye opening. So, I appreciate it being invited. Thank you. **[15:05] Chief Greg Peterson:** And when we do it, when we have the opportunity, these opportunities don't always come up, but when we have a house that's available, I get how asked every year if if we will be interested in raising a house via fire, most of the time they're too close to their neighbors. Um, and so it's not possible, but once in a while we get one that'll work. And it is for us it's the best way to train. **[15:05] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Do people ever volunteer their neighbors house? **[15:05] Chief Greg Peterson:** Let's not start the um the uh the uh it is very very unique. Nobody nobody really knows what it's like. And even for the firefighters themselves, there's nothing like it. We go to a training facility, but it's a concrete building. Everyone knows it's not going anywhere. It's controlled. It's the same layout all the time. So, a a regular house is a huge deal for us and it's a great opportunity. So, it was a lot of fun. Um, and it was a good good experience for everyone involved. So, if we do it again, I will invite all of you again. I would encourage you to to go. So, **[16:36] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** yes. And also, I never left his side. Wherever the chief was and I was going to be right there. **[16:36] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** You're lucky he didn't run in. **[16:36] Chief Greg Peterson:** We We are We were all in. **[16:36] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** I just wanted to be with him when we got out. **[16:36] Chief Greg Peterson:** That would make sense. Yeah, we were. Uh, I'm with that guy and Uh it it was a a a pile of pallets and cardboard and straw on fire and we just sat there and let the fire develop and then we had the crew come in and knock it and put the fire out like they normally would so that she could see and and the rest of the people that participated could see exactly how this works um and how it develops. And even though it was just that it's it's amazing how much fire is is from pallets and straw and how hot it is. **[17:17] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** How hot it is. **[17:17] Chief Greg Peterson:** How hot it is. and that was cool in comparison to what we usually deal with. So, it was great. Uh, we have our rescue swimmer program. Uh, this is something we started a few years back now. Unfortunately, we had to use it last uh last summer and recovering officer that didn't survive. Um, unfortunately about we one oneish a year we have a drowning in the area. Um, so that program is good. our our rescue swimmers are actually the ones that brought her up to the surface um and got her up onto a boat and then brought her in. So, we tried to resuscitate her um unfortunately couldn't. So, but it's a great program. Um we are prepared for things that go on on the lake. We had one call earlier this year, somebody that car went through at least the back end of the car went through the ice and so um you just you never know. It's a busy lake, busiest lake in the north metro. That's for sure. Uh last year, another thing of note, and hopefully it doesn't repeat itself this year, is wildland urban interface, which all of you live in this area, what we would consider that. So, you live in the woods here, and then we have a lot of when it gets really dry like it was last spring, those fires, I've never seen them burn as fast as they did last spring. Um and so they they develop rapidly. um and anytime they're near structures that becomes a problem uh very very quickly. So again, we have we have the ability to fight those. We rely like all of us do in this area, all the fire departments are relying on each other to help out. Um and so we get a lot of departments responding to the same calls, but uh it it was really something to to see last year. So that's all I have for you now. want to say any questions for me. **[19:05] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I just want to There was a fire down on was it Iris Street Lake Avenue down there and um I know you did some investigation. I don't know how formal that was. It sounds like you just made some calls. Um, I just want to say I heard from residents down there that they had some concerns about how Washington County Dispatch handled that, but everyone was very appreciative of the way you handled that and and worked and and worked worked through it. I don't know if I got ever got back to you, but I just want to say I thought you did a really good job down there. Um, so thank you. **[19:43] Chief Greg Peterson:** I appreciate that Henkins. Yeah, that was a difficult situation when I when I got that information. I was just I had I didn't know what to say. Um because I was like, we we got here within minutes. I don't know what anyone is talking about. And so I immediately the next day was on the line making phone calls, sending emails, asking for data to see exactly what happened. So um never never like to hear that message. Fortunately, it didn't get very far. Um, and the neighbors saw the fire right away and started spraying it with water, which slowed it down and it was on the outside of the building instead of the inside of the building. But once we got there, and I know some of you were there that night. Um, and once we got there, then we had to open up the roof to make sure it was out uh in in the mansered siding around it, but um it uh it turned out okay. But boy, I I I really pride myself in doing a good job. By no means are we perfect, but we do a good job. And um when I heard that, it was very troubling to me. So, I really wanted to get to the to the bottom of it. But thank you. I appreciate that. **[21:07] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Um I have a question as well. We have an AED at the back of the room here. Mhm. Um, do you guys service those regularly at all or **[21:07] Chief Greg Peterson:** we pay for another agency like a outside agency? We don't service them. You can check them. **[21:07] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Okay. **[21:07] Chief Greg Peterson:** You can look at the battery the expiration date and then u there's a expiration date on the pads. **[21:07] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Okay. **[21:07] Chief Greg Peterson:** Most of them if you take the battery out of it for wait for about a minute put it back in it'll go through a self test cycle. Okay. Then it'll tell you whether or not there's something needs needs to be serviced. But even at the city, we have AEDs kind of scattered throughout buildings and uh we hire an outside firm because we don't want to be the ones responsible to say that, oh, it's good, you know, and so we they come in with some computer thing and test everything, make sure they're okay. **[21:56] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Uh can you look and see when our last service was on that? Just **[21:56] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** This is a new one. This is a new one. We just last month. **[21:56] Chief Greg Peterson:** Well, great. actually a brand new one. **[22:13] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** I don't know if we did much with the pad, but I know we replaced the battery. Okay. Thank you so much. **[22:13] Chief Greg Peterson:** Welcome. Anything else? **[22:13] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate having me on. Okay. Um, next up on our agenda is Marcus, our city engineer, who's going to be talking to us about um our 2026 road plan. **[22:39] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Hi, Marcus. Hello, everyone. All right. So in front of you should be just kind of a breakdown of uh the budget that we have carryover from last year and then the list of kind of projects page one hoping to get through. Um, behind that is kind of um what I'm estimating fees to be and then a schedule behind that with some maps of just the locations um and whatnot. So, um any any questions? The only thing I don't have solid numbers on is the street condition assessment, which is like the robotics, and we're just kind of swamped on that to get numbers. So, I just haven't heard back from them yet. Otherwise, storm sewer televis cleaning and televising. Um, we found out on Birchwood that we maybe need some more digging into what storm we have. So, I'm not I'm not sure exactly how much storms we're going to be able to get to this year, but we're going to try to get as much um done with in that budget um as possible. And then sanitary sewer, it's a little bit easier to estimate. We're pretty solid on those. So, um ideally we televise and clean these before put out our 2026 project to make sure we know. That's kind of why the um timeline is kind of staggered like that. Um **[24:57] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** yeah, Marcus and I have been talking about this plan that you have in front of you and basically I mean it just doesn't make sense to go ahead with road improvements until we know what's under the road. If we have leaks in our either sanitary or if there's problems with uh storm water management, it should get fixed prior to putting new roads on top. So that's why we're going forward with this. Or we'd like to go forward with this. **[24:57] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** San sewer should usually be televised every fiveish years. and White Bear Township said they don't think it's ever been televised while they've been um in the in town. **[25:16] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** are you saying televised? **[25:16] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yeah. Put on TV like it's literally Yeah. The sanitary sewers. **[25:16] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** I thought all of our sewers were televised uh in like 2017. **[25:32] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** That sounds right. Yeah. Okay. They were lined. The last lining was **[25:32] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Yep. Okay. Then they have to be relined from time to time. **[25:32] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** You don't usually have to reline it, but you still want to check to make sure that ruts didn't infiltrate or there's not a clog or anything like that. Cuz those will only show themselves in the winter. But um the main main concern is the the storm sewer of just making sure we have a good handle and good mapping so when we have a clog we know where to go. Any other questions? **[26:09] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Did we decide which roads we're doing officially? Because I know we had several plans last. **[26:09] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** It's on page one. Listed. That was the That's what we've settled on. Then there's it's the third map back. **[26:09] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Oh, okay. **[26:09] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** So my my fees to um I have the roads for 2026 and then I have um figured of just sending survey out for 2027 um just to kind of try to get ahead of the ball a little bit. So the 2027's also in there as well. And then I guess um since we are haven't done our road botics review yet, we're fairly confident that the roads you've selected are the ones that are in the absolute worst shape, right? **[26:54] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yes. Yep. Um and the robotics I I'm kind of thinking of just waiting till after the mill overlay for this year so we can just get most recent data. So then those will show all good. These roads were chosen based on the road products that were done the previous road. So they're all the ones that were marked red. **[27:20] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I assumed as much but **[27:20] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yep. Did you want to talk a about Excel or No. **[27:20] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Yeah. You want to hold off on that? **[27:39] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yeah. Um so Excel reached out to the city last two weeks um along Birwood um they have an 8 inch main that is from the 50s that they're hoping to get um replaced at some point. So they after talking with them, they ultimately would like to wait until the city has a bigger construction project where um they can kind of partner with the city. Uh being like when we're going to be doing utility projects and stuff like that. So, they've offered to um unofficially, we don't have numbers yet, but tenatively um offered to pay for some of it if they can be in the area when we're working. So ideally they would be coming in right before the city comes in, put in their new main, run services main, then we would come in afterwards and um put in city utilities, make any drainage issue that we have in town, and then redo the street. Okay, that would be the ideal situation. So we're kind of talking about if and how we can make that work. **[28:57] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Where' you say that was, Marcus? **[28:57] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Um, well, it's all the way along uh Wildwood. Did I say Birchwood before? Sorry, I meant Wildwood. From East County uh County Line E to um to the Iris, wasn't it? Iris Lake. It's all the way to like the Hall of New section. **[29:13] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Oh, and then down. It's actually down Iris and one over by Iris and Iris and Hall. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. **[29:13] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** By your house, Kathy. The one up from it though. Cedar and Hall. **[29:29] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yep. Yep. And the main actually does run down Cedar um to like the Midi. **[29:29] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Oh, okay. Um as well. But is it is it is the gas line coming up Iris to Hall or is it coming up the other cedar to Hall? short cedar. **[29:53] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Um, it is coming. **[29:53] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** I thought it was Iris. **[29:53] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Iris. Yeah. Yep. Yep. It runs down Cedar, the very southern part of the the city. **[29:53] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** That's okay. Gotcha. **[29:53] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yep. So, they were **[30:14] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** I don't think we have those roads on our **[30:14] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** We don't at all yet, right? **[30:14] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** No. No. So, I'm asking the city if we want to look into I guess partnering with them and trying to come up with a plan and funding that essentially. If no, then we'll stick to our roads, what we have in the CIP, and we'll just continue our day when that happens. **[30:34] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** It doesn't follow Lake, does it? Because the Iris Okay. Because I was going to say they just replaced that one. Yep. **[30:34] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Five years ago. The stuff that we're doing this year, they're they're going to be replacing all that this year because it's a kind of a mix between um steel and and PVC, but those are all 2in mains and you can put that in way less invasive than anything else. With an 8 inch man, they're it's they have to string it out before they put it in. it's a lot longer of a process. And then they're also concerned of if we if they come in and then five years later we come in and then adding storm sewer, curbon gutter or anything like that or new services. Um they don't really like digging around. Yeah. It's it's a big main. **[31:29] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Why do they want to replace the main? Did you already say that? I'm sorry. **[31:29] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** It's a It's from It's an old steel main. I guess I didn't mention that. It's an old steel main and from the 50s, same time as like your guys' water mane and it's just uh just getting to the end of its life. They're trying to be proactive before there's more. **[31:45] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** That seems like the sort of thing you'd want to fix before problem, right? **[31:45] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yeah. Before you have leaks and stuff like that. So, cast iron mane from the 50s is no good anymore. Okay, sir. That's their word, not mine. Okay, just checking. **[32:01] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** What are you trying to say? I was trying to say that. **[32:01] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** So, if if we'd like to start considering like our options, I think it'd be worth it. It's going to take some time to even get the planning part of it down. Um, and there are I mean, we don't really know a whole lot of funding sources available with how everything is right now, but we have those options. But, and it would be a phase it would be a phase thing. Um, so they can only do 2,000 feet every eight weeks. how many feet are I'm talking a lot of feet. So it'd be like a two-year thing. It'd be at least two years to do the whole the whole stretch. **[32:44] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Do they do that in the winter then, too? I assume. **[32:44] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Nope. Well, we wouldn't we wouldn't let them number one, but Okay. Yeah. **[32:44] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** The only reason I wanted Marcus to talk a little bit about it just to get you guys thinking about how we want to handle replacing infrastructure. You know, it's very expensive like we're talking about funding grants pretty slim nowadays. Um but we do we just need to think about it and we don't have to go forward with partnering with Excel but something to consider. Yep. Yep. We can also push it out to 28. We were talking about that a little bit. **[33:28] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Sure. However long. They're just they're trying to They've been having the conversation since I've been in town and and now they're starting to push a little harder. So, I asked them about if we do end up milling overlaying part of Wildwood next year if they'd be interested and they said they'd prefer that like a recon situation, but that's off the table then. They'll figure out something, I guess. Okay. **[33:56] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Thanks. And then you wanted to talk to about the crack and seal. **[33:56] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yes. Um county came came back was got their prices on bids. It came $500 cheaper um than what we had estimated. It was 21,900 before. Um it's 21,500 and change. Um, they're just asking if the city has any concerns and if they had the green light to go ahead with that. So, everything looked good. There wasn't really any surprises came in lower. So, which is always good. So, okay. **[34:29] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** And do you need um a decision from us for anything to move forward with the 2026 um project? **[34:44] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** If council is okay, I'd like the green light to um get a plan together for the cleaning and televising and then have surveys start um doing their work so we can start that planning with 2026. **[35:02] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay. Are there any other questions for Marcus about the 2026 plan? Okay. If not, could I get a motion to approve the plan? Am I authorizing funds? **[35:19] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yeah. **[35:19] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** And is that this plan right here? This plan. Okay, Marcus. Um, and I think you're 100% right. Like, we have no idea where the We don't have an accurate map of the storm sewers. **[35:34] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yep. **[35:34] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Like, do we even really have storm sewers? **[35:34] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Uh, yeah. So this the one we just cleaned out a storm sewer. um they might not know about that. Oh um the Halls Marsh stuff. Um we may or may not have leads in there. I was going to go and clean out or at least our leads and stuff and get those eyes so we know exactly what's in the ground. **[36:03] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay. Um, and then otherwise there's a couple on Wildwood, but there's few in town. **[36:03] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** I was going to say most of them are just straight shots to the lake, aren't they? **[36:03] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yep. **[36:03] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** I don't know how else to put it. **[36:18] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** They're actually Well, the the one that we found is not It was nothing any like anything like we saw in the plans. was like a 90 degree difference. Yeah. The plan showed the 300 and something longer than what it start going one way and when the we had um just to fill everybody in um what street was that? Birwood A. **[36:44] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Yep. **[36:44] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Um Birwood A had a a flooding problem and the water was halfway up a resident's driveway and it was deep and so of course it was all frozen in there with dirt and ice and whatever. So, we had um a company come out and blow it out, but according to our map, the water was supposed to go under the road into this swale thing, but actually it did not. Went behind the house, the total opposite direction. So, basically, someone flip around on the map. What we want to do is figure out what we have going in this city and get accurate data because we don't have it. **[37:31] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Wow. Where was it at, Jen? **[37:31] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** It's 700 Birwood. **[37:31] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** I actually have it drawn in roughly kind of, but Oh, I think maybe. Anyhow, but anyways, we have storm sewers everywhere. We don't know. We have that random catch base in Paulie's Park that's on my list to clean out and and figure out if there's anything connecting to that or if it's just a structure. **[37:52] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** You going spelunking or what they say? **[37:52] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** They said you going spelunking or what are we doing? I might have to. Yeah. If you want to invite I can let you know and that quick warned about his kids. **[38:08] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Sorry. We have talked about this before too is getting that all that information into the GIS. So future councils will have data, right? Accurate data that they can make good decisions based on. So **[38:08] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** yep, that's our goal. **[38:29] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Are we fairly confident on the page eight that the uh orange and yellow storm sewers are lines are where they go? That's the one that goes into Halls Marsh and **[38:29] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** No. Um Tyid. No, that is this one of the sections that I'd like to clean and tell. We're planning on working on that for the Tyid Park. So, Right. Yep. That would be good to know. That's why it's on my list. Okay. Yep. **[39:00] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Well, great. Um, I I mean, so you asking for 35 K? Like, you do you really think it's going to take that to figure out what **[39:14] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** I'm trying to be conservative because it's easier for me to come and say, "Hey, worst case scenario, this is what it's going to be." Um, I don't want to spend 35k if we don't have to. I didn't I didn't think so. Surveying wise, I put 10, but I think it' be less on that. Um, it's easier to come and give you guys worst case scenario and come in low than it is to **[39:30] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Is that assuming that we have pipe everywhere and if which short of that it's less, right? **[39:30] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Right. So, even with like the storm sewer cleanup, if we can if if there's less pipe in the ground than what we're thinking, we'll keep doing more. **[39:49] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** So, what am I hoping for here? Am I hoping for more storm sewers or less storm sewers? That's a tough one because you're hoping for it to be clean and and issue free. Yeah. You know what the thing is? We had that money carried over from last year. So, it's a great opportunity to get the city kind of up to speed. **[40:06] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** I think we need accurate maps and the fact that we're discovering these things, we need to rectify it. Yeah. Uh I would I would Authorize activity here. Um, I don't know if I need to say a specific amount here, though. I'm looking for it. **[40:26] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Um, you can cap it. The specific amount would be $187,724. That's for total for the uh does that also include the crack seal amount too? Okay. Okay. **[40:47] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** 17 87 1877 2024 I think we got to authorize that. Yes. So I I move to do the 187,724 as a max amount. **[40:47] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay. Do I have a second, please? **[41:04] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Second. **[41:04] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** All in favor? >> **Council Members:** I >> **Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** oppose. Hearing none, motion passes. And is is Bridget is on the screen. Are we counting her as voting or not? She says yes. And I've asked her to text or otherwise. We were trying to get audio for her. She can hear us, but obviously we can't hear her. She did the thumbs up. Yeah. So I'd ask her to give give a give an indication. Anyway, Julie noted bridge. All right. Thank you. Is there anything else, Marcus, or is that Not unless you guys have anything for me, but I think that's it. **[41:51] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Thanks, Marcus. Thank you. If you find any treasure down there, if you need somebody to like hold your legs to do a sewer investigation or something, let me know. **[41:51] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** Well, if you hear someone is swimming away and white bear is probably or shrieking terrain, roped to his foot. All right, thank you. **[42:06] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Um, we'll move on to city business. Now, point of order here. Um, Alan, if I would like something um pulled from the consent agenda, do I do it when we get to the consent agenda or now? **[42:06] Allan (City Attorney):** Um, you can do it when we get to the consent agenda. I mean, if something needs to be pulled just for clarification or for some thing to be identified, you can pull it long enough to talk about it and still just move the slate. So, it depends on how you want to do it. **[42:28] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay. It just needs just a correction in the minutes. So, let's wait. Um, city business number one, resignation of planning commission liaison. I believe this one's yours, Mr. Henkins. **[42:28] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Yeah, I don't think I need to say too much. I put my concerns, I think, into writing in the agenda. Um, I have significant concerns about the ability of the city to handle zoning matters legally going forward. And as a result, I am resigning as the liaison of the planning commission. **[43:03] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Does anyone have questions for Ryan? Do you have a question for Ryan? **[43:03] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Yeah. One second here. Okay. Collecting my thoughts fast. assume we need to uh well I have questions not necessarily related for Ryan on that portion but as far as the if we are concerned as far as our current planner their ability to do their job correctly I think we had an RFP that we were planning on doing that never went out it did not go out it was never posted to the League of Minnesota cities in spite of the resolution Oh, it was it never it never went out. So, as far as like we How did make because I sent him a request personally, but you'll get four or five applications if you actually post it to LMC and that was a resolution. It was a resolution. We should follow the resolution, right? **[44:00] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I would. We didn't. I mean, I'm just resigning. If people want to follow up on that, that's up to you guys. **[44:00] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay. That may have been It was during transition times for sure of I don't know which time. But I mean this is kind of beside the point Alan, but to to that matter there there's probably resolutions that fell off that didn't get executed during all of that Scott or when **[44:43] Allan (City Attorney):** I don't think Scott as far as I know or anything just like the door handle resolution. Um, so can we just like get a list of the resolutions that we've passed as a council and just make sure just tick the boxes making sure we did all of them when we voted on them. It should be executed. Is there like a I think there's a time limit on it. There's a master list for sure. **[44:43] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Okay. If we can just make sure we're ticking the boxes. And I feel like that RFP needs to be posted if we're having concerns regarding the efficiency and effectiveness of that group since we had planned on doing an RFP for that so that we can hopefully get some additional options. **[45:30] Allan (City Attorney):** Yeah, there's very few independent planning agencies. So, you'll probably get the same group that you saw the last time come in. And depending on how business is going, you might get all the same ones. You might get less. Who knows? You won't get too many more. I can almost guarantee you that just because it's just a small sandbox. Mhm. **[45:30] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** So, this issue has been addressed um with staff and also I I personally called or have spoken to four out of the five members of the planning commission um who appreciate Ben's work and I understand Ryan's concern. I'm not saying that Ryan's wrong at all. I appreciate his concern. I'm just saying that the planning commission feels things are going well. Ellen, Ben and I have talked about going forward when a variance comes in a new procedure that's going to be followed um to make sure that nothing is missed. Um we've talked about sitting down with Ryan so he can interpret tell us his interpretation of the ordinances. Um, so there's we can put the RFP out, but just know that this is it's also um something in progress as well. Okay. It's not like we're not doing anything about it. **[46:35] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Um, go ahead. I was just going to say like for situations where there's a variance typically how many variances do we get a year? And I'm trying to think of my time on the council. We've and I can think of less than a handful like three off the top of my head. It's not the volume's not super high. **[46:57] Allan (City Attorney):** It's not 30 for sure. Correct. We never had a variance come in while we were on council. Those were all ones that were in progress. **[46:57] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Okay. Even better. There fewer variances. Um, would it be worth our time to and I don't know how much money this would even be to to get some sort of variance land use attorney I guess would be just to be like, hey, these are the variances. What do you think? Like a third opinion on these things or should city staff be able to handle these on their own? **[47:48] Allan (City Attorney):** I think frankly now that I'm doing this and I'll be putting eyes on this, I would hope that things get a little tighter. Mhm. So, our last variance, I attempt to do the very same thing that we're talking about now, which is, you know, having more of a checklist and making some findings cuz I agree with Ryan. It's important to do that. How How many years have you been the city attorney here in Birwood, Alan? 12 13. **[48:05] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Okay. And to date, it has not been within your mandate to review variance applications for their legality? **[48:05] Allan (City Attorney):** Nope. I mean, when someone asks, I look at them, but that's was in the job description. Well, it's it's not uncommon unless there's something that's really unusual. So, I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus and say that I should be involved in every step of the way, but I've certainly been here long enough to see what happens. So, that's why I'm kind of doing this. So, yeah. I mean, it's hard for me to say that there's been so much turnover and so many things have changed. Like, I don't know how much like like I feel like things are getting better. And so, and I guess I was just seeing a a third set of eyes on something would be beneficial. And if it's only a couple a year, I don't think the cost would be **[49:28] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I I mean, I think we raised variance fees significantly basically as a matter of getting some oversight on there. And you know, like we saw with the Mahoney Herod dispute, somebody like Chris Duffy, I think was did a really good job there looking at all the land use requirements there. I think it would be very wise for the council if people are um you know don't want to shake up the status quo too much to get somebody to look these over so that this isn't my job. **[49:57] Allan (City Attorney):** It shouldn't. For what it's worth, I plan on having more of a group effort involved with these. And I think one of the things that's missing is the left hand never knew what the right hand was doing. And in some cases when you've got people, I mean, goodness knows she did a good job. But when Rebecca was here, she's not a city administrator. She's not a permit person. She's not a planner. She's not a zoner. She's not an engineer. And so it was all kind of foreign language to her. And so if you don't know what you don't know, then you can't really help in the process. And so we haven't really been tested too much on this. But um that's all I can do is promise to have a little more oversight and you know double check the math on these things. Sometimes it's tough if you don't want to go scouring through the entire code for every little thing and we do put it on the applicants to do that. **[50:18] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** It took me 15 minutes to find this one. **[50:18] Allan (City Attorney):** I'm not saying that it didn't. I'm just saying that I mean it's a certain amount of this is on the applicant too. So no it's not on the applicant out. Well, I mean, I'm fine. That's It's not on the applicant, and applicants can submit whatever they want to us. We have to be able to review it. **[50:41] Allan (City Attorney):** Yeah, I don't dispute that. I'm just saying we can only review what applicants come in and ask for, too. So, anyway, we're trying to make the process better about all I can say. So, yeah. And I'll say if you ever feel like, and this is just from my experience reading this, if you ever feel like out of your depth on this and we need to bring in third party help, like I'm get confused. I've got other people I can certainly call too. **[51:09] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Yeah. I mean, it's hard for me to say there's been so much turnover and so many things have changed. Like, I don't know how much like I feel like things are getting better. And so, and I guess I was just seeing a a third set of eyes on something would be beneficial. And if it's only a couple a year, I don't think the cost would be... I mean, when I when I see stuff like this, it it just I I chalk it up just a sloppy head in work. I don't think we've done anything really wrong or the decisions we've made are wrong or we've really had like incorrect information to make our decisions. I just want to make sure that, you know, we're crossing our tees and dotting our eyes essentially. Um, and I guess the only thing I was concerned about in Hanken's resignation letter was um there seems to be discrepancy between the minutes and the city planner's defense of what happened. the defender of defense. I don't know. It's in his It's on the second page of his letter. The planning commission actual finding and then um yeah, the two bullet points on the second page. I mean, my understanding is **[52:02] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** and and that's the other thing. If there's a if there's it's it's I guess Henkins, do you want to I guess I'm a little confused of what that is as well, but it seems like there's a discrepancy between what you read in the minutes and then what the planner told you. Okay. So, I I think it would be good for me, it's a little long, but it would be good to read the um entire email from Ben. And this is in response to an email I sent saying I didn't think it was needed for the planning commission to discuss findings affected its meeting because I think it needed better inputs. **[52:36] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Before you read that, um, Ben also sent me an email about discussion you had with a homeowner. So, I'll have to that I had with a homeowner when you were taking pictures down there. Sure. Okay. No, I mean I don't need Jenny email. I just want if I just want to make sure everything is on the up and up if if what's in the minutes is like accurate and then what's in you know that there's not any discrepancy there. I guess that's it. I mean I'm just you have to admin work and I think that's what we're doing right. So yeah **[53:01] Allan (City Attorney):** and I want you guys clean fight at the planning commission process because their job is critical. So if if if they do things right, this should be as easy as just adopting the findings that should be established at the planning commission, and I agree with Ryan, they should be justified, and there should be findings in there. And so I'm not going to say the planner makes short shrift of them, but we need to we need to define what a reasonable use is. And if it's as simple as saying, hey, it's a residential neighborhood. They want to put up a house with a garage that's a reasonable use, you know, and right now some of those things get glossed over maybe a little bit. **[53:38] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Allan, the planner, the planning commission minutes explicitly said that the statute wasn't met. This isn't a matter of some interpretation. This is a matter of specifically that the planning commission said the statute wasn't met. Hence your bullet point. Hence my bullet point. And you know, this is not the first time this has happened. And I don't understand why it keeps happening and why other council members seem to be so um you know, accepting of this level of um planning services. And so I'm going to step back from this. But I have an expectation that going forward. I guess I don't have any expectation because I don't think there's any reasonable plan here to actually do legal zoning going forward because I think when you have a planner who won't who won't um come and tell the council that the statutory criteria weren't met, no process is going to overcome that. And so I'm stepping back because I don't think we will do this right going forward. And I want to say to people who come up here for a variance, I'm sorry, but you um you know, I can't vote for this because it doesn't look like it was legally done. I resigned from the planning commission liaison ship because this was a problem. And next time this comes through, I expect to be to, you know, to say four council members basically supported continuing with the status quo. They said we understood that this would be fixed and now it's not. **[55:42] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** So, this is the same thing we went through with the um when the planner didn't understand the difference between a setback and a height variance, right? Oh, yeah. Well, I'll go fix that. And then again, not fixed, right? So, I don't have a whole lot of confidence that some sort of process change is going to fix this here, right? I also would just raise what Jen is raising here down at 131 Wildwood Avenue. It appears that the planner just allowed a retaining wall that was illegally allowed there. It doesn't meet the the zoning criteria. I took some pictures of it. I don't doubt that people were upset, but when I asked the city administrator about this, Allan, um you stated that no variance from birchwood or even a permit was necessarily needed. You said you would just let it go. Even though for retaining walls on shoreline, we've typically allowed we required those things. So, it's a little unclear to me how we're even able to handle our our codes at all when we're allowing retaining walls on shoreline without requiring permits. So, yeah, I took a couple pictures. I can show them the requirement, the zoning requirement in Birwood is that everything be 3:1. three a distance of three horizontal and one vertical. And so my concern down there, and I think I'm glad this was raised to Ben because I don't think it met that in the code, is that when you build a a retaining wall of a higher of a higher um degree than that, a higher angle than that, it has to go through the variance process. I don't and I have concerns all over the place where we're just generally not meeting our code. It's not generally a variance issue or generally a find a fact issue. It's an issue that the city city and Ben fundamentally cannot do the job. **[57:13] Allan (City Attorney):** I understand. And the work down there is permitted and inspected and everyone seems to think it's just fine. **[57:13] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** And I don't know who thinks that because you can clearly see it doesn't meet the 3:1. **[57:13] Allan (City Attorney):** All I can tell you is what I did after the complaint came in, which was check with Rice Creek and they said it was permitted and it was fine, but not permitted through birchwood that let me finish please. So they said it was permitted and that it was fine and that in fact on the same day that I called Washington County went out there and was actually actively inspecting it and they approved what was happen. **[58:02] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** But there was no Birchwood permit issued as required. I don't know if it was required. It's clearly required in our code. There's no ambiguity about that. **[58:02] Allan (City Attorney):** I don't have any opinion on that. So, what I did was I checked to see that the work was permitted and whether it was a replacement or otherwise. And all the other governmental entities were fine with it. So, not going to start a debate. I'm just telling you that's what I was told. So, I went out there and looked at it and took a picture of it, too. And there another Oh, you took a picture, too, huh? Another complaint came in about the actual um corduroy, I guess I would call it, the the wood planks that were put down there just to make sure they were doing what they were supposed to do with their permit to use the easement to get out there, too. So anyway, everyone seems to think it's okay. I'll do whatever he has asked me to do at this point, but again, I went out there, it looked **[59:08] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** All right. Well, thank you. I do thank you for going down to look at it. I mean, I don't see any problem with going down and taking pictures of stuff. So, what I'll talk to you about it later. I just I stopped and told the contractor what I was doing, so they didn't call the cops on me because I'm in my private vehicle. Can't call the cops on you for taking a picture. Well, I didn't want to be well called on, put it that way. So, I just stopped and said, "Hey, I'm going to go check what's going on." That's all. **[59:30] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Yeah, I just from my perspective sometimes waiting through this stuff is like reading Greek and I don't have a background in city planning or this type of stuff. So that's why I'm I'm like, you know, getting another set of eyes on it. What what what's the harm in that, you know, but I kind of want to see what how the new process plays out. **[59:50] Allan (City Attorney):** Well, all I can do is promise you that if I sit down and say, are we sure about this? You know, about the best I can do moving forward. **[1:00:00] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Yeah, I get it. I mean, it's been so much turnover and **[1:00:00] Allan (City Attorney):** advance one other subject relative to this and it came up this last week was the actual cost of the variance since you touched on that too. And so it's $5,000 right now and that's not an escrow. That's actually the the fee for a variance, a single variance. And we just had a variance basically get walked back and the application didn't come in. Whether or not it was because they were quoted the $5,000 or not, I don't know. But that seems maybe a little bit high for a single variance issue. I'll just throw that out there and see what you guys think. **[1:00:26] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I'm happy to lower it. I guess I think the idea is was that we would basically be using those funds to pay for expanded oversight on variances. It sounds like one variance application though, that's a little heavy. Well, it depends on what it is though. It might be and and we can lower it down. I do think it would be good. I mean, if we have clearly call it an escrow, right? Yeah. Or even have just a lesser charge and then high initial charge, not 5,000, but then have an extra 1500 per bar. **[1:01:01] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I'm I'm fine with reducing it down, but I want to have a discussion of what oversight we do in that process. **[1:01:01] Allan (City Attorney):** Sure. That for this person, it was kind of a hard swallow. So they just said, "You know what? We'll figure it out." And just pulled the They didn't bother with the application. **[1:01:17] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Yeah. Because I mean some of these variances have been in the past very very expensive, right? To the city. **[1:01:36] Allan (City Attorney):** Well, that's the concern. That's right. I mean, I understand why we did it. I'm just saying that the first time it's been tested, it was like, "Holy moly, that's a lot for a setback or whatever it was." So, we don't know because it didn't come in. But is that something where I know we have fees based on the cost of a project? I don't necessarily want to go down to like way low because of just the administrative aspects of a variance and then Ben needs to be involved, etc. And we're supposed to be covering Ben's cost. This was a swing that kind of went the other way because we get left holding a bag and then had to figure out how to do very large bills that the city had that we were trying to recover. I like I like the escrow idea. I understand why it happens. But the problem is when it's just a flat fee, it becomes very hard to justify for that reason, right? Because the fee should be more or less commensurate with the labor that's expended. So you're not making money off of planning and zoning services. I think what we expected was that what we saw we needed a long time ago was that basically variances were just kind of getting pushed through with very little analysis and we're getting sued a lot. **[1:02:40] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** We're getting sued a lot, right? And so were well wait we haven't been sued in about four yearsish three years three years you know I guess what I feel like is there's a lot of I I'm concerned that when we don't uphold our zoning laws when we allow retaining walls in the OWL without even a permit when we allow variances to go through without knowing what composes the retaining wall that we may be at lower risk than than we are. And a lot of my efforts have been trying to reduce the risk to the city. And I feel like sometimes that can be a little bit of a thankless job because that adds I you probably appreciate that too as a lawyer, Allan. Sorry if I was a little hard on you. Um, but to me there's expense, but that's effectively an insurance we're buying in paying for adequate oversight. And the applicants bear that. And part of it is just because, as Justin used to say, this is a litigious city. And um you know you have people down here, people who for example like in December, people who were going to claw through their neighbors project and that will happen to us again and we don't want to be coming back after the fact and saying, "Oh, what did we do wrong?" We have to do everyone right even though it's probably only two or three or 5% that we get screwed up. And so, is there going to be a lawsuit on 131? Probably not. Were the two lawsuits in a row a fluke? Were there a couple city council members there who were kind of nuts and made a scene and pissed people off and then they went and hired a lawyer? Probably some of that, too. But like, I still think What's that? I said, I wasn't here. I don't want the chief thinking that was me. It was pre-you. It was It was pre-you. It was pre our previous lawyer. We're not naming any names here, right? But like well you will not see I mean that's a commitment that I made to you guys and I will continue to make. You will not see those things happening again. Well Henkins to be honest with you I feel like this has brought way too much undue stress on you and it it shouldn't be strictly your responsibility to do it. Uh personally I think that the city is starting to run a lot better and I appreciate all the efforts that everyone's made to do that. kind of want to see how that plays out, but I do want to leave the option open in the future. If these kind of things keep happening, number one, switching that to an escrow so people think they're getting their money back. And if these things become an issue, we can hire somebody else to take a look at these things to make sure that we're crossing our tees and dot or lowercase J's. **[1:05:34] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** And if we make asks of the planner to change the way they're presenting things and that doesn't happen, then I think there's probably some merit to put the RFP out there to see what's out there for interest. I have no problem doing that. Yeah. Right. I think we this is also someone who we know and someone who's in place and I think from your conversation the planning commission finds them to be helpful. So that's helpful when you've got a planning commission that actually respects the person that's doing the work. So do we have to fine-tune and and round some edges? Sounds like it and I agree with Ryan. So that's what I'm here to do. So, I'll look into Wildwood again and I'll see what happened with the **[1:06:18] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Well, I wouldn't look into it permit that we've issued. I would just There's no variance for that. You're correct. I would just don't know if we need one. I would make an administrative decision. It sounds like the decision has been made. I don't think anyone's likely to appeal it. I wouldn't go revisit it because I raise it in a council meeting because that's not our process and I really don't want to get back to the process of haul everything. So, I would really prefer I have concerns about that one. I have concerns about how things have are handled in general and that's why I'm resigning. But I don't want to go down this road of Ryan complains about something in a council meeting. If I complain about it outside of a council meeting, then it should be handled the same way it hand is handled from basically every other resident. But please don't go revisit that because I don't want to go down the that's another thing I want to get away from is this thing we used to do four, five, six years ago where three or four times a year there would be a a weird a weird zoning right at a council meeting with a lot of yelling about some issue. I remember some lady down on Wildwood who put in a few patio stones and got into a giant mess on a on a variance. And I really don't want to do that. If we're going to do it, run it through the planning commission and run it through the whole process. But if honestly I don't think my I'm not filing an appeal. My complaint was essentially overruled. Like let's just move on from that and not revisit it, please. So **[1:07:49] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** yeah. And hopefully Henkins I hope you find it in the goodness of your heart to still help out with some of the stuff you are whether you like it or not. the sub subject matter expert when it comes to all of this stuff. So, even if you could help out staff shoring up the administrative process, I don't know what that even looks like, but I hope you don't wash your hands completely of helping the city out. And I understand your resignation from the the commission, but you're still the SME. **[1:08:15] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Thank you. I appreciate that. So, **[1:08:15] Allan (City Attorney):** and all I can say is there's going to be a little bit more flow control. That's part of the problem is just not knowing when it goes to Marcus and certainly you've been here long enough to make comments if you want about the process too. You know, it's just getting the team together because right now it just feels like there's a silo here, there's a silo there and it all kind of comes together and gets thrown at the planning commission. And so I don't think that's entirely helpful, but it certainly is a great opportunity to miss things. So I don't want that to happen going forward. **[1:09:05] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Bridget, did you want to say something? **[1:09:05] Bridget Sperl (Councilmember):** Yeah, I don't think you can hear me, though. Can you? Oh, you can. um you know I echo all the sentiments about um all the good work and the passion with which you um do this thing. I also process through of how this the software and and there's two. So as as um Alan says, I I think a lot of this concern with the school with the process procedures and we can tighten that up then it goes forward much more strongly into the planning commission. **[1:09:53] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Thank you Bridget. Thank you Ryan. Thanks. Hold our feet to the fire man. Uh, you're on your own. All right. Um, let's move on to number two, which is the consent agenda. Um, I just **[1:10:14] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** I have a question on this one quick on the consent agenda. No, no. On the uh liaison, do we need to appoint a new one? You're doing it. Oh, you want to vote on it? I'm I'm good with you doing it if you're okay. I can't for work, but it's the third Tuesday. Do we have to vote on it? **[1:10:35] Allan (City Attorney):** I assume that if you're appointing yourself, might be helpful to take a vote. As opposed to just saying I'll do it. **[1:10:52] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Okay. Could someone make a motion to appoint me to the as the liaison? Anybody you would like to be appointed? Sure. I move to have Jennifer appointed to the planning commission as the planning commission liaison. **[1:10:52] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Can I get a second, please? I'll second Kathy. **[1:10:52] Bridget Sperl (Councilmember):** Second. Bridgette will second. Okay. **[1:11:12] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Um, I don't think an appointment of a new liaison is an adequate remedy. **[1:11:12] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** But there needs to be. There has to be one though. **[1:11:12] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I'm going to vote no. And that's what I'm saying. And you guys are going to vote yes. And so we're all going to vote and that's then we're going to move on, right? **[1:11:32] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay. Uh all in favor Council Members: I opposed. Ryan Hankins: Nay. Okay. Um I don't know how to do this. So motion passes. One, two, three. Four yays and one nay. All right. Um consent agenda. I'd like to pull out, excuse me, A, which is the minutes of the last um council meeting. Um, does anyone else want to pull anything out before we **[1:11:50] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I want to pull out the treasures report, please? **[1:11:50] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Yeah, I I agree. It's not what it needs to be, right? Anything else? Um, I had a question on how we were doing the consent agenda for the third part. So, C Okay. So, what are you saying? You want C pulled out? Yes. Anything else? We got D&. Anyone have any opinions on that? You want them in or out? In. In. In. It's good. We can talk about it. All right. So, can I get a motion to approve the consent agenda with A, B, and C pulled out? **[1:12:43] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** So moved. Kathy. **[1:12:43] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Second. Second nicely. **[1:12:43] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** All in favor? Council Members: I opposed. Are you okay with passing? **[1:12:43] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Uh yeah, with the two pulled out. **[1:13:01] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** All right. Um motion no one's opposed. So motion passes. Thank you. Sorry, guys. Um, A is just the minutes from the last meeting and I believe it was page 21 number eight on the minutes. Um, Ryan actually approved up to $700 and the minutes reflect 500. Okay. Apologies. Yeah, no problem. I move to approve the minutes as amended. Second. All in favor? I I opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes. Thank you. B. Approval of February 2026 treasures report. **[1:13:41] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Oh, okay. So, I have some questions. Actually, I just have one question. Okay. Um, a new deputy city administrator was hired by the city. That's not her title. She's a Where is she? Administrative assistant. A new administrative assistant was hired by the city. Are there any wage payments to her on this treasur's report? **[1:14:16] Marsha Olson (City Treasurer):** I don't think so. **[1:14:16] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Okay. So, you just started. With that, I move to... Oh, I'm sorry, Bridget. Go ahead. That's all I had. Bridget. **[1:14:16] Bridget Sperl (Councilmember):** Bridget. Yeah. The only thing that I would say, and I'll I'll work with Marcia and with Allan. the the reporting is still not what Ryan and I would envision it needs to be. Um we don't even know where we sit for February. I did not see the um the actual line by line budget and results. And then I do think that Marsha needs to do a better job of summarizing what the results are and whether we're on plan if there were un any unexpected expenditures. And I did send her a format. Apparently, she didn't have time to use it for this month, but it will be better next month. And I don't know where we sit from a budget standpoint in February. So, we need to understand that. I don't think **[1:15:01] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** I also had a a concern on this one, I guess, as well because on page 27, we list on here city council pay, which would have been for the payments received in last um last year, but the date listed on it is 2/29/26. So I was I was curious what that was in general because our mayor council etc. we get a payment once a year and it's actually for 2025. So as far as like what this payment is because if it's in February which one the one that's uh it says city council pay on page 27 date is 2/29/2026 and it's for uh $1,384.74. I don't know if that's when **[1:16:05] Allan (City Attorney):** that was probably 27 of the PDF. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Page 27 PDF. Okay. um, page 25 of the packet. Sorry. That was probably to me, Kathy. I had donated my salary, but the way that it was done uh was not right. Mayor on it. So, I was like, why what's going on there? because it's Oh, the council pay is usually under mayor. Well, it's voided. Well, no, there's the voided and then directly below it is another entry. Yeah, I think what happened is they put my name on check. and that's why they voided it. Okay. And they did it twice because her name is on the next line too. Your is is Oh, mine is as mayor. **[1:17:14] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** So anyway, so as far as like what that was cuz I had seen your name for December and if that's incorrect because I was like we don't get paid in February. It's not a bimonthly or something like that. So I wanted to bring that one up too just to have that corrected because I don't think it was to Jennifer. No, it wasn't. True. Okay. Um but that was something that I noticed in this. So we all found our own little fun. **[1:17:33] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** What's your thing, Ryan? Oh, well, we'll get to that on the additional on the additional item. I was just wondering about the any payments to the new administrator. **[1:17:33] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Oh, okay. **[1:17:57] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** So, are we okay with the treasures report then or I know we're not Bridget? I am. I know we're not okay with the format, but are we okay with the accounting? **[1:17:57] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I move to pay the bills in the treasures report and express our extreme disgust at the format. I I move to pay the bills. **[1:17:57] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Can I have a second? **[1:18:17] Bridget Sperl (Councilmember):** second, you know, maybe I'm not seeing it in my in my um deck, but do we see a February report? **[1:18:17] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** No. **[1:18:17] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** No, it's not. **[1:18:17] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay. So that's just got to No, you're not wrong. It's not there. **[1:18:17] Bridget Sperl (Councilmember):** Okay. As as we put together uh these this this should just be basic operating procedure that we've got to... One in January was good. **[1:18:17] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** If you talk to Bridget, we should be getting the annual financial reports. If you talk to Marcia, sorry, did I say Bridget? If we should be getting the annual financial reports pretty soon, I think. **[1:18:59] Allan (City Attorney):** Yeah, I would hope so. And then um slightly related to treasures report, I know we didn't have it on the list, but the audit, any update on doing that, scheduling it, planning it because it relates to treasure. Have you had a chance to um contact anybody about an audit for a quote? Yeah, we have a quote basically on two different fronts. Um, Abdo, which is a group that everyone's probably either heard of or or knows generally. They do a lot of work with Marsha, so they already kind of know her style. She knows their style. And I would budget 20. So, there's two different ways they can do it. Um, I'll just leave it at that. One's 17 and one's 20. So, I would just make sure that you have 20 available. Um, we could probably get one in May if you wanted to do that. might be more effective to let things shake out and then just budget that for um 27 at this point. **[1:19:44] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Okay. **[1:20:02] Allan (City Attorney):** Spend at the end of the year contract with them. They said they had some capacity if we wanted to do it this year. That assumes that Marsha is ready to do it. And so I'm not sure if it wouldn't be rushed and kind of silly to do it this year. It's up to you guys. They'd be happy to take us on as a client, too. So, I did confirm that. **[1:20:02] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Okay. That's something to budget for for next year. Okay. Well, let's talk. Can we put this on the agenda for next month? I have other things I want to talk about the audit and whatever. Okay. All right. **[1:20:17] Bridget Sperl (Councilmember):** Um, could I just swing back? Hey, Ellen, could you send us all of us the February financials? I'm sorry. Could you send us as a followup to this meeting, all of us the February financials? Thanks. **[1:20:33] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay, we have a motion and a second. Um to approve the treasures report. Approve the treasurer's report. Yes. All in favor? I I opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes. I see. Is consider resolution approving summer hire for maintenance and park support? **[1:20:49] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Yes. Um, I just had a a clarification question on this one because I assume it's going to come up in the parks committee meeting. Um, we currently do hire I think it's true green to do our mowing. Is this a person in addition to that or replacing? **[1:21:12] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Is in addition to in our 2026 budget we had put $40,000 extra into maintenance. Okay. Um, so part of this whole GIS mapping is finding all the curb stops. Is that correct? Curb stops. Um, again, we don't have exact locations for that. Marcus was and I were talking it might be a good idea to have someone go out and figure out exactly where everybody's curb stop is. We can put all that information to the GIS and it's just building a database for us. **[1:21:54] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Oh, so this is a person specifically for that not for maintenance then. **[1:21:54] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Correct. And if that it would be like for 20 hours a week, but if we cannot fulfill the 20 hours a week with just doing something like that, this this person would also be maybe shoveling, you know, shoveling out the culverts or whatever. Okay, you can think about it. **[1:22:25] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** How long would it typically take to find a curb? I don't even know what exactly what that is. So, **[1:22:25] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** it's the little um round shut off in most people's driveways. **[1:22:25] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** So, at least that's the curb stop is actually down below the ground. That's where you actually shut off the water. **[1:22:42] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** It should not be below your driveway. Henkins. Well, it is should not be Well, no. Mine is mine is to **[1:22:42] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** So, just a just a second. That's the the There's the curb stop is the box that's actually down underground. Correct. And then there's the thing above it. That's the That's the knob. I don't know. It's all considered the curb stop. It's just the riser. Okay. Curb stop itself is the valve that shuts off your water. And the valve is down below the ground cuz otherwise it would freeze. Right. So Yep. **[1:23:13] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** And ideally, it should have a cover on it unlike mine that's actually paved over. **[1:23:13] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** So is mine. There are others I know of that are paved over. You have that nice cover, how do we fix that, by the way? Uh, I assume I have to pull up part of my driveway. Yeah. Anyway, **[1:23:29] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** do you want to talk about why it's Oh, I'm sorry. You had a question. Well, I was curious what the curb stop was, but as far as like as far as how how easy it should be, it shouldn't be that hard to find, but there are obviously like your case where it's hard to find. um if there's better buried metal cuz all all you can do is take a metal detector until we have a better system down. Take a metal detector and find metal in the yard. Then you dig it up. You either see a curb stop or you see junk. um randomly, and I can't remember if it was this year or last year where Mr. Manship had mentioned that there was a specific tool for this thing. **[1:24:16] Marcus Johnson (City Engineer):** So, for this year, um, where he wanted us to buy him this tool, remember this year, I was just going to let you guys use one of our GPS's. Okay. So, so you guys will be able something that's you guys will be able to use it. Yeah. And then once they collect it, we'll review it to make sure it's right and then put it in. And then from there, once everything's in the the GIS, um, however you guys want to go about it, but you can just take a GPS and go right to it without needing um a metal detector essentially really we're looking at 21 times for like the the streets we did the last two years we have all those curb stop shot we have some long wildwood that are along like the driveways things like that we have some but it's the ones that we don't have that are harder to find okay Yep. And if you don't want to pull it out of the maintenance budget, we can pull it out of somewhere else. It's not going to be a lot. **[1:25:18] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** It depends. We would get this job done and then move on to maintenance because the the contract would be from like May 15th to August 15th. Yeah. You know, 20 hours a week. Sure. If it doesn't take that much time, then we could use this person to do something else. I mean, there's plenty to do around here. Well, I'm not concerned about the amount of work. I'm more concerned about the uh so like last year I spent almost a week out and got I don't know it was like maybe 80 of them 100 out of the 300 some. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's what I was wondering what exactly they'd be doing to confirm if it was mowing or something else, etc. Yeah. between I just did for 15 weeks would be $6,000. Which budget are we planning on pulling this to? I still was going to do it out of the maintenance. I got to pay for daycare. So, and with the rain with the rain gardens coming and um Tishman and stuff in the future, we figured they can work on maintenance with that and like... I don't know that they'll be doing it this year, but Right. No, not this year, but looking forward when we got out of the curb stop shop, we don't have to worry about that. Okay. Yep. **[1:26:50] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I mean, I'm okay with that's the intent of the money. **[1:26:50] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Yep. All right. Um, can I have a motion then to approve C? **[1:27:07] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** So moved. Uh that was for a summer hirey. Second. **[1:27:07] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Second. Thanks, Bridget. All in favor? Council Members: I opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes. Um number three is hiring of Genevieve. **[1:27:07] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Okay. So the city hired Genevieve Bold. Is that how I say her name? Genevieve. Genevieve. Beold. and av Okay. And what was her start date? **[1:27:51] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Um, she started 2/20. **[1:27:51] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Okay. And in what minutes of the city council did the city approve her hiring? **[1:27:51] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** I don't have that information right in front of me. **[1:27:51] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** As far as I know, approved to to bring another office person in. As far as I know, the city never the city council never approved her hiring. So, I would like to make sure that's true, but it appears to me she was hired illegally. **[1:28:08] Allan (City Attorney):** We can correct that. Certainly, she's just been here for a few days and so just started. **[1:28:08] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** Was she replacing was it Theresa's sister? We did. We that was the last one we approved. Yeah. **[1:28:27] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Yeah. So, I'm more than happy to bring another resolution forward. It's just a replacement for that person who was here. I think **[1:28:46] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Well, it's not so much being happy to do it or not. It's that that's a legal she went forward with the authority that we had. If you want another resolution, we can do Alan. I want things to be done legally. This was not done legally if she was hired without a resolution. Boy, it's hard to find since none of the minutes already the approval there for that position. Then show me where it is. I don't have it in front of me. Okay. Well, then let's make sure it's there if you're claiming it's there. And if it's not there, I'm sure I think she's there in person. I didn't bring a resolution naming her to that role. That's true. So So she was not authorized to So there was no authorization to hire that position. I think there was authorization to hire the position. We didn't bring anything forward for her specifically. Oh god. Well, just by name is all I'm saying. So, well, I don't think there's anything there for even an unnamed position. Well, we already had Teresa's sister in here providing that extra. She left and then you must do another resolution to hire a new person. We'll bring another resolution. And I'm not sure this can be done retroactively. She was hired illegally. I think we may need to make an insurance claim on this. And furthermore, I think we may need to request how we handle this from the state auditor. An insurance claim. An insurance claim because I don't think we can pay someone who wasn't hired legally by the council. **[1:30:08] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** All right. Well, we'll look into that from a staff perspective. Oh, I don't have a direct answer for you other than what I just said tonight. **[1:30:08] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I think the first step here is to make sure there was a council action authorizing us to hire this person. Okay. Well, we'll have to look back through the minutes, Ryan, and see what we can find. I didn't prepare when naming her, so I can tell you that. So, I don't think that we need to look back through the minutes for that specifically. Well, you can't just hire someone because someone else leaves and claimed that was all blessed all along. That's not legitimate under the law. **[1:30:41] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay. Well, give us some time and we'll see what we can find. I think we're all in agreement. Let's do what needs to be done to make it right. Unbelievable. See you. See you. Well, if that's not the case, what's the process of delegating that authority to the city administrator for for someone like that? I'm sure that the council can can delegate that authority, right? So, as a council, we could say Allan, we give you like the authority to hire someone in the future, which is what we should have done, which is what I thought I had. So, okay. I've already hired the position once. It's just Well, she wasn't hired if there wasn't authorization to hire her. So, all I can do is say we'll make it right. I don't think there's anything wrong with what we've done. So, no. **[1:31:26] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Well, I think we I mean one of the problem I mean I think before we go into this I think we we what I would suggest we do is validate that there was such a resolution to hire her and if there wasn't we call a special or emergency meeting to deal with that situation because I don't know that we can just make this retroactive. I mean, from my my quick two second search right now, it seems like there's a ratification process to to do this retro retroactively. I'm not an attorney. I don't pretend to be an attorney. I can't I can't go through this. But the problem, I think, Ryan, is that I I really don't want to get our head over ourselves. Let's make sure Allan thinks the resolution exists. I didn't say that, Ryan. Okay. Does So, what is Let's make sure a resolution exists. hiring her and then go from there. And if none exists, I think we need to have a meeting as soon as we can to deal with the situation. We need to make sure that uh whatever we do that we pay her for the time that she's We can't necessarily do that. I think we'd get sued if we don't pay her. I think that's why we make a liability claim to our insurance carrier. Let's figure out what the facts are and then go forward. I think we have to figure this out before I think everybody wants to go down the road of what's next. And I think we need to figure out that there was an authorization to hire her. And if there wasn't, then I think we we deal with the next steps from there. January, I missed. Again, you don't have a resolution. I don't think you'll find one naming her specifically. Well, I don't think you'll find one for Okay. Well, all right. Fine. Well, I mean, let let's let's just not put the cart before the horse. Allan, do your research, figure it out. I think there's probably a legal process to make it right, and that's what we'll do. It was no mystery. I mean, we posted the position. We had interviews and so so you're saying that we ended up with with Genevieve but that was also after we actually had the administrative support that we needed to help Theresa get caught up with the exact same position. So that was a paid position and so this is essentially the same position. So Hanks, let's let's just figure out what we need to do, let Alan do his research um and then we can try to fix it and let's make sure we're doing it above board. Easy peasy. Yeah, I don't have any problems with making a correction if that's what needs to happen. So, wait, I wouldn't have gone ahead someone if I didn't think what I keep saying is we don't yet know. Are you saying there is no resolution hiring her? Is there our name on it? But there is there a resolution? I don't know, Ryan. I sit here and tell you. I've told you. I I'm trying to do exactly what you're doing here, which is I'm saying that you don't know that there's a resolution. Let's make sure that we prove our negative and that if there is no resolution, then we call a special emergency meeting and deal with it if we need to. Yeah, we'll do that. I mean, you guys have to agree that that needs to be done. So, I can't just agree with one person. I think we need Okay. So, you keep saying that and I can say my concern here is that if she was hired illegally, which as far as I can tell is the case, that that we have a concern here that that was you were the one Allan that hired her or that worked through the hiring process. And because the city attorney and the city administrator are the same person, there's a conflict of interest there in you providing us legal advice on this matter. You can't provide us a legal advice on a matter where your actions are in question. I'm not following the track there, but Well, what I'm saying is this is a legal question, right? You acted to hire this person and bring her into the city. Well, we did. I can't say I did it personally but Okay. So, someone else in the city acted to hire her and fill out her paperwork and and get her on the payroll, not you. Well, the city did it, so yeah. Oh, come on. It doesn't matter. We'll research this and if we need to do a special meeting, we'll do a special meeting. Yeah. We just We're not going to get anywhere today. already being paid for the position. That's all. So, no, that's not the question. The question is whether she's been legally hired or not. Okay. And so, there's a question of unjust enrichment. Absolutely. Is we can't she can't be employed for the city and not get paid. But it's not clear to me that we can pay her necessarily retroactively. I think that's a question that has to be resolved. If she wasn't hired legally, we can we I think we can ratify. I'm just reading about this right now. I think we can ratify I don't we need to do more research. I'm not saying this is the gospel, but we can ratify an action that otherwise the council would have the power uh within the power of the municipality. So, it seems like there is a legal process to do it and this is what we got to do. If that's not the legal process, we'll figure it out. I and all I'm saying is let's just check with the state auditor. They answer questions like that and make sure that that's the appropriate process. Okay. Yeah. Need us to make a motion to ask and look for the thing. Well, just tell me what the consensus is to do and we'll we'll we should uh find said resolution for the hiring of that position. And what would I ask the state auditor? Can you just email me what the question would be? Ryan, question state auditor. I can email it to you. But the question to the state auditor is if a city employee was hired without council authorization, can the city hire this employee retroactively and pay her retroactively? Okay, that's simple enough. Yeah. Well, I don't want that. If if that's the case, though, um do we need to crank out a resolution right now to hire this person? I think we should. I think we should crank out a resolution tonight. So, how am I doing that? If you guys just give me a, you know, take a short recess and stretch your legs. Okay. I'll add a resolution. It's simple. Please do. We're in recess for 10 minutes. I'm going to the jungle gym. **[1:53:22] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Can I talk again? Can you hear me? Yes. Oh, Jennifer, I sent you a quick text. Okay, that might be helpful. So, Kathy, did you want to read this? **[1:53:37] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Yeah, I can read it. Um, approving the hiring of administrative support staff at the regular meeting of the city council of the city of Birwood Village held on Tuesday, March 10th, 2026 with the following members present. Mayor Arsenault, council members Eisele, Hankins, and Weier and the following absent council person Sperl um the B. Do we need to say that she's zoomed in? Sorry. **[1:54:09] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Yeah, I mean I'm quoting you're here. Okay, maybe we adjust that one. Yeah. Okay. Uh, sorry. **[1:54:09] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** The Birchwood Village City Council resolved whereas the city is actively seeking a long-term half-time administrative support employee and whereas the city of Birchwood Village has posted advertised for the position will evaluate candidates that emerged. And whereas the city of Birwood Village still has a present need for administrative support that has identified an individual willing to work in a true on call part-time fashion. Is Genevieve Beold. Beold. Thank you. And whereas the city of Birwood Village desires to hire Ms. Genevieve Beold to provide such needed administrative support to current staff and will compensate the position at a rate of $28 per hour. **[1:55:07] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** I would excuse me before you go on. I'd like to add one more whereas um whereas this position will be retroactive to this her date. **[1:55:07] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I don't think we can do that legally. **[1:55:07] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** If we can't, we'll throw it out. But according to we'll just say if possible if if if approved by the city auditor if approved by the state auditor 20th. Yes. February 20th. Can can you put if if approved by the state auditor in there? Sure. Okay. I wouldn't do that. I would just say due to an administrative oversight in the formal approval process. **[1:55:46] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I don't think this is a big deal. I I think this is a bigger deal than that. So, I'm... Okay, you guys vote for it. **[1:55:46] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** It was an honest error. We're two weeks late. Was that the end of your whereas? **[1:55:46] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** I will continue reading. Now therefore, be it resolved that the city council of the city of Birwood Village hereby authorizes the hiring of Miss Genevieve Beold at the rate of $28 per hour without further benefits for on call administrative support not to exceed 20 hours per week and until a permanent hire for the support position is made. **[1:56:17] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** No, she is a permanent hire. Oh, for the support position. So, I'm sorry. Uh as a permanent hire for the support position. No, just let's just put it 20 hours per week poop and end. Yep. Okay. Uh then it says votes in favor, votes against abstaining votes. Uh resolution duly seconded and passed this 10th day of March 2026, signatures attested, etc. Okay. Um would someone like to make a motion approving this resolution with the additional whereas um stating that her start date was February 20th? No. Can I get a motion for that? So move it. **[1:57:12] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Second. I'll second. Kathy. **[1:57:12] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** All in favor? **[1:57:28] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** I would like to say uh I don't believe that the um the city should go forward with this without getting a quick phone opinion from the state auditor on whether we can um circumvent the statutory requirement that the council control all hiring. **[1:57:28] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** that's in part of the whereas is is are we including in the whereas that there's a clause that we just double check with the state auditor before we make this retroactive. **[1:57:59] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Okay, then I'll vote for it. **[1:57:59] Allan (City Attorney):** And Ryan, just so you're aware, I'm taking the note for the extra whereas. So I've just got simply that uh this motion is retroactive to February 20th, 2026 uh subject to the approval of state auditor. Okay, thank you. That's great. Perfect. Want to hear? Nope. Nope. That's perfect. All right. **[1:58:32] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Okay. All in favor? Council Members: I opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes. Well, thanks for catching that for us, Ryan. Um announcements. Uh Alan, did you want to read those announcements? **[1:58:32] Allan (City Attorney):** Uh nothing other than what's in the uh deal. We talked a little bit about the variance um cost and so work on modifying that. Do we want to put is five grand just as an escrow? Is that acceptable? Just as a tweak to that? **[1:58:54] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Well, since it's an ordinance, are we going to have to do the first and second reading? **[1:58:54] Allan (City Attorney):** Oh, yeah. I'm just saying what do we want to do? How do we want to change it? **[1:58:54] Ryan Eisele (Councilmember):** That's fine. **[1:58:54] Allan (City Attorney):** I can just put it on. We can talk about it next time if you'd rather. **[1:59:15] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** Yeah. I just brought it up as something because it was just within the last, you know, 10 days that this came up. So, **[1:59:15] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** No one's project's getting delayed because of this. **[1:59:15] Ryan Hankins (Councilmember):** No. Nope. **[1:59:15] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** How about we um put something in writing and then we can vote on it next council meeting? Would that be okay? **[1:59:15] Allan (City Attorney):** Yep. And at least have a discussion. I'm just saying for direction, do we want to keep the five grand and just call it an escrow? We've already got the 3500 in escrow as opposed to an escrow for the actual cost to the city as a permit. So, isn't the permit a thousand? Wait a minute. Stuck in that chicken and egg trap, right? If you just have a minimal one and then you've got costs that exceed what what what's there? Um, that's where we got in trouble last time. So, how about we um how much is the escrow? 3500. The escrow is 3500. All right. Which is not the same as the variance fee, right? So, that's five grand. Okay. Well, let's think more about this. We can come back next month. Okay. Okay. Um, any more announcements than the ones printed? Sheriff's monthly reports included and our next meeting is April 10th. There's nothing else. I move to adjourn. Can I get a second? **[2:00:20] Kathy Weier (Councilmember):** Second. **[2:00:20] Jennifer Arsenault (Mayor):** Second. All right. All in favor? I council's adjourned. Thanks, guys. Can you guys sign this, please, before you leave?