you you good evening ladies and gentlemen it is now 5:30 and I will call this regular meeting of the Burnsville City Council to order it is our tradition to stand for a moment of silence followed by the Pledge of Allegiance and we invite you to join us I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all the next item on the agenda is announcements and our announcements have to do with all of our upcoming meetings regular council meetings are scheduled for Tuesday February 4th at 5:30 p.m. and Tuesday February 18th at 5:30 p.m. we also have work sessions scheduled Tuesday February 11th at 5:30 p.m. and we have a closed work session on Tuesday February 4th at 6:00 p.m. and this is for the city managers annual review we also have an all-day work session scheduled for Friday January 31st at 9:00 a.m. all meetings are held here in the council chambers except for the all-day work session and that will be at the Nicollet in boardroom at the niccola 10 yes madam mayor clarified the meeting will start at 8:30 so the meeting the all-day work session is at 8:30 a.m. not 9:00 a.m. thank you okay very good thank you the next item is citizens comments this is the opportunity for anyone in the audience to address the council on an item that is not on the printed agenda and not an application form that will be coming before us at a future date is there anyone who wishes to address the council and an item that is not on the printed agenda for tonight and not an application form that will be before us at a future date anyone seeing no one we will move on the next item is additions to the final agenda and this is emergency items Oni miss mescaline are there any emergency I don't know madam mayor okay members of the council do you have any emergency items okay thank you the next item is the consent agenda the consent agenda is a group of items that's considered to be routine and will be enacted by one motion however and item on the consent agenda can be removed for a separate discussion and vote is there anyone in the audience who wishes an item on the consent agenda to be removed for a separate discussion and vote anyone miss Moscone no madam members of the council may I have a motion to adopt the consent agenda please councilmember workman makes the motion second by councilmember Schultz all in favor please say aye opposed say nay thank you and no motion carries the first item on the regular agenda is a public hearing and this is a resolution ordering the improvement approving the plans and specifications and ordering the advertisement for bids for the 2020 Street improvement northeast area and to authorize the joint bid with 2020 concrete elements rehab rehabilitation and signal modifications presenting as mr. John's mailing our assistant city engineer mr. smiley good evening thank you madam mayor members of the council I'm here before you tonight for the items 5 a and B which are public hearings for our street improvements northeast area contract 20 - 101 as well as the West area contract 20 - 102 I'll be running you through just an overview of the improvements we're proposing our improvement strategies the schedule proposed funding special assessment methodology and then a little bit about project communication after that then we'll jump in to just a few specifics on each contract any unique items show you some condition photos and then all the talk about estimated costs and then all the public hearings this year we're proposing a wide variety of street improvements in the north east and west area in the city northeast area consists of the travelers trail area north highway 13 frontage road like Industrial Boulevard River Hills Drive happy area and park would drive drive / 12th Avenue the West area consists of henan Road area Forest Glen area Dakota Place area 141st Street 143rd circle and Nicollet Court this table show is kind of just an overview of the street improvement strategies we do we are proposing this year all to do all reclamation and rehabilitation reclamation is essentially full-depth pavement replacement partial curb replacement and then we also do sanitary sewer repairs and storm sewer repairs and upgrades and then for rehabilitation generally we just replaced the top two inches of pavement sometimes a little more depending on the street condition still do a partial curb replacement and then do still do sanitary sewer repairs all these different strategies were proposing would also have associated sidewalk repairs and the Americans with Disabilities Act upgrades miscellaneous tree removal and we will evaluate all the streetlights in these areas to see if any warrant replacement the schedule for the street improvements is we held a neighborhood meeting back in November they didn't put this on here but in December you guys approve the preliminary report tonight we're holding the public hearing on the proposed improvements in March we'll be awarding contracts and I just want to point out that is sooner we're doing that sooner this year to try to get ahead on some of the bidding climate's been really tough lately so that's why you're getting this hearing sooner they new used to and we'll be awarding contracts a month sooner than in the past and we plan to continue to do this going forward will hold a pre-construction open house in April prayer to starting construction will have April to October construction season in August we'll mail final assessment letters and hold a final assessment hearing in September funding for these improvements comes from a variety of sources including taxes special assessments utility funds municipal state aid funds and for a signal modification proposed to be bid with this project Dakota County will be contributing towards that so moving on our special special assessment methodology we are proposing assessing on a frontage basis based on the frontage measured 30 feet back from the front property line and the assessment rates are set based based on street widths for residential multi-family and other theirs and each rate is set based on a certain street width for each of those categories it's based on assessing forty percent of the street cost what we don't assess for with these projects are utilities it's sixty percent of the street work and any other work being included with the projects we set the frontage rate based on the past three years average cost and we set those rate per foot yearly this is an excerpt from actually our fee schedule which states the rates this is all reclamation and rehabilitation again we have rates for single-family multifamily and other as shown for reclamation and rehabilitation also of note rehabilitation is a much simpler strategy so hence the lower rates for those in the reclamation assessments can be pre paid in full by November 15th I should change that with it so November 15th to 2020 is or they need to be prepaid otherwise if they're not prepaid at that point they would be spread on the taxes over a period of years at a 4.5% interest rate I left this slide in here this was done for 2016 but just showing that there are some other cities that do a SEP do assess and our assessments generally are quite competitive as far as they're at or below what other cities we're assessing and we at some point we'll probably study this again but they're showing you that for a project communication our main way of communicating is through our website at burns element gov backslash roadwork we have individual pages for each of the project or each of the contract areas where we post almost weekly updates during construction as well as any other relevant information that the public might want to see we also have on our roadwork page a notify us form for people who use to let us know if they have an irrigation invisible fence let us know if they've had any drainage issues sewer issues and then one of the big things with that is gives them that opportunity to let us know if they have any special access needs for whether it be for medical or special events and we let the contractor know that and do our best to accommodate those needs as feasible in addition as I said before we have our website as well as an email for construction questions construction at Burnsville MN gov we also have an email for assessment questions assessments at Burnsville MN gov and then lastly we do have email notification subscriptions available for the different contract areas so this concludes kind of more of the general scope for all of our different project areas now I will move us into talking about item 5a which is contract 20 - 101 again this area has travelers trail area north highway 13 frontage road like industrial boulevard River Hills Drive happy area and park would drive / 12th Avenue some items unique to this contract other than the general ones I've already covered our first in the rehabilitation areas there are three spots we do plan to do full depth milling and repaving we're doing that on Windsor Court Court and then one section at travellers trail from Stratford Lane to Parkwood Drive it's so deteriorated we need to repave next would be the 20/20 signal modification that's been brought before you for authorization as a separate project previously and we're proposing joint bidding that with this contract what that consists of is modifying the signal like cliff and River Hills Drive to have flashing yellow arrows on it to help with off-peak traffic movement another thing we're doing is we're gonna be adding a couple restraint since we're restriping with this these projects we're gonna add a couple of turn lanes on 12th Avenue at River woods we got plenty of room to do that and then park would Drive just south of 13 we're adding a term lane to some of the apartments there again cuz we have the room to do it now add some safety also we're planning to do some pedestrian crossing enhancements on the frontage road there's a pedestrian crossing we'll be adding additional signage as well as crosswalk striping to that it's not directly in front of the high school but it is when friend returns thereby kind of across from Burger King also and I'm going to go into this a little bit deeper in my next slides that we're proposing on travelers trail from Edel Ridge Drive to Parkwood Drive doing the new striping with dedicated on street bike lanes and then lastly we are proposing joint bidding with the 2020 concrete elements rehab this is actually something you saw last year we had proposed some concrete repairs at the intersection of Eagle Ridge and travelers trail we got bids for it even we're gonna move forward with it but we got a suggestion from the contractor to maybe look at a couple different options for it we had proposed kind of cut out the bad areas and Replace option but there were so many that needed it that we're gonna try doing a alternate bid where we do either piecemeal or just replace the colored concrete and put in wider joint spacing so we want to see if that would be more economical so that's why we're proposing rebuilding that with us and then we're proposing it with this project because we're at traffic control for the adjacent street improvements as promised I don't want to talk a little bit more about the travelers trail proposed on street bike lanes to start off this map is just an excerpt from a 2018 multimodal study that we had a consultant work with us to do and we're proposing implementing dedicated on Street bike lanes on travelers trail from Eagle Ridge to park wood drive other items of note there's a future Orange Line station planned on the southeast corner of Nicollet and we 13 well as is noting the heart of the city location so we're proposing these on street bike lanes because if you look at this map on the north side of 13 we've got a dedicated mix tears trail already in place south of 13 that in terms of east-west access there really isn't anything except for a regular narrower sidewalks and then there's so there's potential to put bike lanes on travellers trail to kind of help facilitate the bike traffic and allow for safe biking and that would be useful for access to the future Orange Line station that would connect up with the wide wider sidewalks in the heart of the city that are basically their sidewalks but they're of a width that they're basically like a decorative trail so we are proposing these dedicated lanes some of the benefits other than what I've already said include what they utilize Complete Streets principles they're cost effective because we're already erasing all the striping with the road project they utilize the wide streets again they connect to the heart of the city and they can help with access to the future Orange Line and in the future they could be extended whenever we do road improvements on 122nd to get all the way from heart of the city to the trail that is on County Road 11 I will also add to I have been in contact with Minnesota Valley Transit Authority they do operate the 444 which I believe goes to Mall of Americans their busiest route is on travelers trail working with them there in support of the bike lanes as it does help with their buses their buses all have bike ranked bike racks so and then just to show you there's the two different segments that would modify first travelers trail from Eagle Ridge to Portland currently is a four-lane road with no parking will no allowed parking and we're proposing converting it to a three lane with center turn lane with dedicated bike lanes in both directions as well as a dedicated 8 foot parking Lane on the south side with that I would mention we did have a traffic count done and with the level of traffic on this segment it's 3,000 cars per day which definitely is in the range to warrant a three lane versus a four lane segment and then also of note with this is we're actually adding the parking language you can park there now if you're not you know if you want to but this would make a safe spot for parking that's not currently there and then the other segment which is travelers trail from Portland Park would currently is two lanes with basically parking lanes on both sides we're proposing converting it to keep it two lanes your dedicated bike lanes and then limit parking to the south side now so that would be being honest it would take away parking from the north side you've retain it on the south we have done some outreach on this back in December we sent out a mailer to approximately 300 adjacent residents and businesses as well as held an open house in December pushing the people who take an online survey and then in January we had communications push it out with social media and email up email notification to their general public to also take the survey as of January 12th there had been 76 respondents about 40% were support of the change 30% approx were against and about 30% we're kind of neutral didn't really have a strong opinion we also asked some questions about utilization about 50% of the people that responded said they would use the bike lanes at least once a year or more if you're looking at it from what I use it a once a month or more 20% said that we also asked about parking 40% of respondents said that they would year's parking at least once a year or more looking at it from the once a month or more that goes to 20% and then about 50% identified themselves as novice or recreational bikers and as I said before I did talk to MBTA and they are in support of this change so with that given that there wasn't over fifty percent support the staff recommendation is to proceed with installing the bike lanes as proposed evaluate them over the next several years and if safety issues occur remove the bike lanes with the future CEO code or maintenance paving and that would be really only if we're getting seeing real safety things occurring you know a couple people don't like the bike lanes and there's not really a safety issue we probably wouldn't recommend removing them but if we are seeing issues we would recommend reverting back to what it was or something else so with that I'll move on to show you some before pictures of these streets I'll run through them quickly I think we have some questions here from members of the council councilmember Gustafson yes you said we plan on taking this lane to eventually connect with the one on 11 yes what does that do for us as far as biking in the city well you provide so currently on 122nd and travelers trail which kind of goes that whole stretch currently we just have five-foot sidewalks on each side so by putting the bike lanes it kind of dedicates a place for bikers to go to we're hopeful that that would take some of the biking off of the narrow sidewalks and put it on the street and give them a stripe condition once we hit 11 where does that take us once we get 11 once you hit 11 well you can go north or south and then actually in the spring we'll be finishing or our striping on River Hills Drive from cliff to 13 which is dedicated bike lanes which then in conjunction with the County Road 11 trail gives you a full connection all the way up to the trail on cliff the off street trail by 13 that's north of 13 so it kind of completes the loop so it would be our beneficial if we're not seeing issues with this these bike lanes to make that extension so you get that full connection between harness City Highway 13 and County Road 11 just one more following yeah the marathon yep so I'm just I'm looking out her heart of the city it's a high density area it's gonna become even more high density I'm assuming there's gonna be more biking there and so I'm assuming there's gonna be good connectivity between the heart of the city and our other bike trails and some of our neighborhoods because right now I don't think there's but sidewalks to get into the heart of the city if you want to bike in - yeah yeah thank you I'm council member hschultz so you said if there are safety issues not just a preference issue then the striping would be removed is that correct yes okay my question too is are there safety issues not preference issues now concrete safety issues now I wouldn't necessarily say that there have been some people have said well yeah are you sure you want to put people on the streets biking so but I wouldn't I wouldn't say I feel like that's a super concrete safety issue so you're saying there's a preference issue now because we don't have a safety issue now in the same way that you would judge a safety issue yes and we're proposing these lanes another reason that we're proposing him but so I said cost-effective so with these it cost us about 15 it would cost about fifteen thousand dollars to add the extra striping and signage it would take to do this three-quarters of a mile for Poznan Street bike lanes if we were to say ever want to do off Street trails those cost about a million a mile so that'd be about 750,000 so we feel that this is a good way to utilize the white street we have for a pretty fairly minimal cost the whole project cost of just the travelers Trail project is about a million and a half so we just feel it's a good investment of a relatively small dollar amount okay yes come to my results so looking at this and seeing what they're experiencing in Minneapolis and the accidents they are having there why are we choosing to have parked cars bike lane and traffic because Minneapolis is starting to zero in on maybe that wasn't a good idea see one thing I would argue is that Minneapolis is a much higher density with absolute of a lot more traffic this is a lot lower traffic for 3,000 cars per day is quite low now to be honest I don't know what Minneapolis traffic ends up being but relatively low traffic and when you when you do have some of the mix of the bikes and these lanes it will have somewhat of a traffic calming effect so even just converting that four lane to a three lane can help with traffic calming as well in addition to putting the bikes into their proposed lanes okay and I asked that because I do have concerns about when you sandwich the bike lane in between park parking and a bike lane and then you have you have lanes of traffic that I am I mean frankly I'm uncomfortable with that if we're going to do that and we're gonna we're gonna do the money and I do realize that Minneapolis has a lot a lot more traffic definitely they do have a lot more traffic but seeing what they're experiencing with that also talking with biking advocates and what they're experiencing I'm I'm not sure if that's the way to go or not let me follow up with do we have any bike lanes dedicated bike lanes on street in Burnsville today not really yeah so right now we've got River Hills Drive kind of halfway there that's gonna get finished in the spring and then we are moving forward and that's already been awarded Lac LaVon Drive from County Road 46 to 42 yeah and that'll be a similar idea same thing with parking on one side and dedicated bike lanes and one lane in each direction so you're proposing this because we're doing reconstruction in this area yeah it's because we're doing rehab if if I could have a my way I wouldn't necessarily Russia to here but because we're erasing the striping it's the cheapest point to do this if we were to do it later then we have to pay to remove all the striping that would already be out there and so if you're gonna do it now would be the time to do it otherwise if you wait we would have if we did want to do it in the future we'd have to remove the striping so it's an opportunity to do it and that's why we're why we're proposing it now he'll be at the lowest cost okay Portland from McAndrews down to going south to 42 that was a four-lane and it is now a three lane with a two lane with a turn and then you have parking that is also that Lane is used for four bikes correct it's not a dedicated bike trail but people use it because I see it yeah I mean they can utilize that area even though it's not by yeah okay have we had any conflicts that you know of I would defer that question to Ryan are you aware of any no matter Mary I'm unaware so the big difference there's we've lose all our parking if what we're trying to do here is provide a place where you can work and have dedicated by humans on Portland you basically if the car parks there then then we have to bike around the car mm-hmm yeah no I get it I'm just trying to understand what we do have in the city and what you're trying to do now because you it appears to me that you're moving towards Complete Streets methodology and when you're doing reconstruction is when you're saying while we're here doing this let's look at the a bike trail but I also understand what because in Minneapolis and I think it's Portland when I go down to st. Mary's and I'm coming back and I have to take a left to go south you have that same configuration where you have the two lanes you have a bike trail in it and it is kind of especially at night for me to make that right turn and you're turning right into a bike lane when you're making that right turn to catch 35w going south yeah so I get what you get you're talking about councilmember Schultz but I'm trying to understand what we have in the city have we had any conflicts because I think Williams Drive is another one that we have we had four lanes and to get down to two and and of turn lane and then you also have conversions yeah in the past this is attempting to get us to a more multimodal environment yeah we do get people asking for this kind of thing yeah because I see some bikes on I'm William strife um yeah that's um Williams Drive would be a lot better example to Portland yep then Travers trail much less traffic there for sure yeah okay councilmember kini thank you madam mayor I live on travelers trail right in that area and one of the things I like about going to three lanes is slowing down traffic I just a few days ago I was walking my dog and and someone was going what appeared to be 70 or 80 miles an hour going westbound toward the intersection they were coming you know down and it's it's a bumpy ride right now because the road conditions pretty bad and I hollered you know slow down and and you did this but you know they went past me so fast they probably never saw me so I would like to see some some mitigation of the of the traffic there and there's a park right across the street and there's all summer long there's a lot of kids going in and out of there too I'm I I'm a fan of getting bikes off streets and on 10-foot wide trails and that's why I like the the trail system that is essentially a replacement to the sidewalk but it makes it wide enough to handle bikes and walkers you know i it a lot of cities and I'm working with the NLC on multimodal and micro mobility and and we're talking about you know scooters and scooters are basically every city I've gone to that I've ridden a scooter they they make it very clear you're not allowed to be on the sidewalk they're basically forcing scooters to use the street yeah I have yet to find more than a few people ever be in the street everyone rides on the sidewalk and so really what people are saying is it's too dangerous for me to ride a scooter in the street I'd rather ride on the sidewalk even though they're Navi pedestrians and that's creating friction and problems they just don't want to they don't want to get out in the street and I think it's a lot was the same for bikers it's just nerve-racking to ride a bike with with 35 mile even 40 or even 70 in this guy's case mile per hour traffic flying by it if it feels intimidating and unsafe and so as much as I am a fan of being able to use our streets where we have the width and there's low traffic it concerns me to move forward with something like this when I would prefer to see the sidewalk on one side or the other just turned into a 10-foot wide path and become part of the trail system that connects with the rest of the trail system that the county is doing and other cities are doing so we can connect I get why you're doing it I just and maybe this is a test because it has that something that gets restriped in a couple big three young one because we will we do plan to do maintenance which won't include crack CO and likely a seal coat and the fare relatively near future maybe just uh one last question you mentioned the numbers but I was trying to do the math this distance that we're doing on street bike lane versus turning the five-foot sidewalk into a 10-foot sidewalk trail what's the difference in cost for the mileage that this segment oh okay so does added striping saying they're just 15,000 for this 3/4 mile segment to add a off street trail and and and again just one he wouldn't yeah both sides to be there's only about three quarters of a million inning reasonable yeah rough numbers and we saw that with numbers mr. Peterson's expensive yeah put this up more from previous discussion but just so you're aware you would in all 30 you've approved us to remove the striping on like the long drive 46 all the way to 42 doing the exact same thing yeah so um you know we just were here saying this is the way transportation systems are moving they're moving towards having folks you know do this type of thing on the streets because you know for the reasons John brings up it's - well it's very expensive to retrofit trails and where sidewalks are and now you're using this extra width I mean if if we were to go back and build this road today we would never it would not be nearly the width that wouldn't right so we got this extra width at our disposal and that's the intent here is to go to a more multimodal Complete Streets type of church and with a built out community and you're gonna look at a 10-foot trail we're gonna have to do do we have enough land in an easement to do a 10-foot trail just using travelers trail for instance um we got federal funding for a 10-foot trail and Cliff Road no I mean for you for this because now if you're taking it off the streets and you're gonna put it on a ten foot trail do we have land I haven't studied this particular section that's the other one we are putting a trail on a cliff row we're having to obtain easements yeah that's what I'm getting on you need to get easements yeah okay you want to answer that before I go to other members of the council who have questions and I apologize for interrupting if you look at this section here for a traveler's trail for meto Ridge to Portland you'll notice that the sidewalks are set back approximately fifteen and a half feet from the back of curb to point that out no I saw that but I mean if you're gonna do a ten-foot trail around there you're going to get closer you're going to let you have five foot right now you're gonna have to go closer to the street to add five more feet council member schultz so you did point out that council had approved putting a bike lane such as this on another Street when council approved that the conversation was that we would approve that it would happen we would study it and then we would proceed from there we're now being asked to just go forward when the other one hasn't even been done yet and I I get the cost savings but I don't agree with the rush if if the agreement was we do that we look at it see how that goes assess it for the future if that's the way we go forward or go in a different direction I am comfortable with that I'm not comfortable acting as if we have made this a policy to go forward on because as far as I know we have not voted that this is now our policy for how we're going to handle this okay tell us some of the work Minh thank you we've got a growing subset of people here and I think they've been a part of a lot of these projects and I'm not a biker but what is the perception among those diehards on this particular way out I mean just in the conversation we've had to this point I mean is among the really commuters I guess is the word I'm looking for is this something that's frowned upon or is this something that they're seeking or kind of somewhere in the middle I'm not asking you to speak for it yeah sure I'm gonna go to a mr. Peterson as you know the home they've been very active with us on the trail down by the river yeah trying to get that so there's been other conversations that occurred I don't Fitz Burnsville biking there's a group like that when they heard we were evaluating or saying we're gonna evaluate these sections when we do these projects arab ericsson to hear that we were going to take a look at these case-by-case situations okay the biking community would most definitely want this because then they have a place to take their bike as opposed to you know you can like whether we have bike lanes here not you freedom by gonna road so now they have a dedicated place that's theirs okay I guess I think about my sister who has a learning disability and can't drive but does bike that route to Cub Foods often and I think she would use that Lane I think would probably make that right a little bit easier for her than on the sidewalk and that's kind of where my been on this so thank you okay cut to member Keeley thank you um I absolutely hear what councilmember Schultz is saying I think we're we're basically proposing a second test area of Street before we have we've done two and maybe I don't know maybe the solution is going to have to be a combination because we do have ten foot paths trails in a large area because we've been building and out over the years to connect with the Dakota County trail and connectivity to other cities and so person can go to link fill on a trail which is made up of ten foot white paths and some on street I would say not on street dedicated bike lane but on street buffer you know we're the the striped between the the lane strafing there's an extra what looks like parking but it's usually just an extra five years or so of a street that is you know leaned off so you mean I I'm I'm torn because personally I mean I live on the street I want it to slow down so we're gonna go to three lanes anyway the question is we stick a six foot bike lane on both directions and stripe it out right now which I guess I I can't say no to it because we don't know yet just how much of a safety benefit or issue or feedback it is because none of them are completed and used in a summer time period of time because the 13 - cliff segment is is just getting basically wrapped up for this coming summer and like LaVon is going to be under construction this summer as well as this one will be under construction so remember Keeley your wife is a biker does she bike on the street she actually was one of the people who responded to the survey by the way yeah and her concern was it this was just a short segment that really what she's looking for is what's the the entire trail plan and this one segment from Eagle Ridge all the way to 11 basically is just a small piece of you know a distance to ride type of thing and my response was this is one segment that puts the puzzle together to connect with other pieces that are already done and/or going to be done and and this one happens to be on street in a methodology that our staff always have for things like this is that if they're going to work on a street and rehabilitate or reclamators then it's the time to look at that you know do you stripe it for four bikes at this time it is leveraging the resources so that's all I'm hearing what's going on tonight it's a piecemeal me yeah we've been doing we trail segments one segment at a time yeah for years yeah be able to build out the entire system okay tell us a member hschultz so Mike my question on doing these roads and then studying them and checking if there is improvements in safety how exactly will we do that when we have zero accidents do we go to negative accidents and that's how we know that they're safer what is our measurement would say we would look for are there accidents when there weren't before Ryan do you ever know there might be some metrics that you could find from other cities in terms of bikers and safety I'm sure there are metrics and I had asked the question before on the number of accidents I believe the accident we had to go back to was something in 1982 I mean Minneapolis and st. Paul must have something because they have a lot of bike lanes in my opinion this is more about providing options than saying it's a yes I get it no I get it I get that you're you're working on a street and you're safe of a moving noise towards complete street models then you're adding it to it and it that cost is lower since you're working on the street right I agree but you said customer soles the other two are not done yet the only reason were Time Lord is because we're doing street budget so one percent concur with that and you know like John said my recommendations tells me before with this but like John said if we wanted to go backwards we would be able to whenever we did the silk coding the same thing could occur whenever we do sealcoat the road we could straight that the with the three lanes with the bike lanes at that point as well so there is you know that might be seven to ten years off you know there's just yep I get it okay all right mr. Schmeling you completed with 20 - 101 because you know I have to hold the public hearing here I know I just got I'm going to run through some quick pictures a long time and then we can get to that part yeah because I you do have another public hearing yeah luckily a lot for your items that one to discuss but okay I will move us for a deaf ear okay you have some pictures yes go quick so in fact so just looking at Eagle Ridge travelers trail Windsor Court crown Hill Court and shyboys trail park wood you can see they're all in need of repair 12th Avenue frontage road like almost done 16th Avenue River Hills Drive north south and north end well it looks awful yes they all do they all need it so all right then lastly just parking on this for just a second for contract 20 - 101 the overall estimated project costs would be four point three two million with assessments being approximately fourteen percent of the total cost this again reiterates the assessment rates then with that I staff recommendation would be to well after we hold the public hearing adopt standard resolution awarding the improvements authorizing the joint bid with the two other projects and then I wanted to make sure you knew before we go into it two movies improvements forward would take for at least four four minutes so if if this bike lane thing seems like it's kind of can we pull it out there mr. Schmitt I'm already there if we're going to need to get a supermajority I'll find out which one is the is the is the stumbling block yeah and pulled the stunt pulled that out so then now we're there for the public hearing for 28 - 101 Thank You mr. smiley this is a public hearing is there anyone who wishes to speak to the project for the North East area of our community anyone who wishes to speak to them yes please come up and give us your name and address for the record right here I guess I just wanted to mention that we're looking at this from the viewpoint of the people that are using the street but we live on Windsor core and so we have to pull out into traffic all the time and we have buses going by and we have bikers and cars and everything and it's gonna be a mess okay do you see a lot of bikers what do you see a lot of bikers in your area I mean so you're on Windsor Court and that comes right out to travelers trio cut-off of near Portland and yeah travelers true yeah um a fair number I guess I'm on the sidewalks I'm on the street yeah because I live in it in the area so I'm just trying to yeah that's difficult and different times of the day cuz I have to pull onto it the Parkway all right and that's where you pull out yeah I just want to make sure that's been considered as well as the fact that we're you know a la you know kind of moving into the the new age with the bikes and stuff I mean I think that's a great thing but I don't know that that's the way we should be doing it what how should we do it for me how should we do it to accommodate bikers well ideally be nice to just have a dedicated area I guess my concern is that there's gonna be buses I think there's gonna be a bike lane between where the buses are on this sidewalk right now this is on travellers trail and you you you're right off of the yeah but usually when a court right once it is that one support yeah it's a car so long that one yard yeah so my concern is just yeah all this stuff going on I remember coming out of the end of the street interaction really okay I just wanted to mention it I mean I can see from my fan they just freakin see some safety issues yeah okay very good thank you because even if we have a you know a bike trail that's off the road you're gonna have bikes bike trails still through that intersection coming out so whichever way we do it it's going to have it unless you say no bikers yeah okay is there anyone else who wishes to speak to this item anyone see no and I will close the public hearing members of the council your thoughts so this is an area that needs to be done we've seen all of the streets are you okay with the streets and let me talk about the bike lane are you in favor of moving forward with the complete Street model while we're doing reconstruction at this time or not because if that's a stumbling block I'd like to move it out and and and and approve the rest of the project so council member Gustafson well as I've been watching this whole thing it's I think this is the perfect way for us to connect the heart of the city to the rest of the city as we move forward with that whole Tod area with our transportation or any development which is a big part of what we're all about today here in the city we're bringing in many many market rate type apartments and housing which is going to change that demographic in the heart of the city both through age and economic demographic give me a lot of bike riders in that and so it will connect our people to the orange line as well so you can come from your neighborhood right into the heart of the city and take the bus downtown if that's where you work and you want to want to play so it's is it the the best way right now no I would like to see the 10-foot Lane too but I don't know that we want to experiment with three quarters of a million dollars to see if that works out for us and so I think we could start with this and if as it grows we can make some changes along the way because you're absolutely right it's it's not working then which the stripes on the road and $15,000 initial cost is a pretty low investment to actually connect the city and be able to tell that we we do we do like bikers in our city and we want to give them a place to go so I will support it with the bike lane okay councilmember Keely thank you madam mayor if we were to choose tonight not to do the bike lane striping what would we do with the extra 12 feet probably refer back to what it was but if you talk about other things that don't seem like I don't want four lanes anymore there it's too dangerous they speed too much I think going to three lanes is is a great safety mechanism because it does slow people down and maybe not because two lanes you just have a wide road people tend to just go faster right lane striped or not but I think this would that we and we've seen it happen on other streets were a center turn lane and a single lane and a buffer bike lane or parking like would you just put parking on both sides of the road potentially because there'd be mr. Peterson thank you Avenue is did it doesn't did work well that used to be four lanes it's now three things with the center and it's just you can park you can ride your bike but if someone is parked and you got to ride your bike around it so that certainly as an option that it would be better than going back to the four lanes yeah angry because it's working well O'Byrne Williams Drive - that's a little trickier for begginers really high speeds there what I know so I'd like the Portland one better yeah I do too but you know I'm looking at what we've done in terms of trying to get to complete Street the truck the the speeds on William there's a lot higher than Portland yeah 911 Dakota County just changed four lanes to three lanes from like 130 forth up to 120 seconds not long ago so we have another example of that okay uh uh cousin Marie Schultz so looking at this yeah three lanes I think would be appropriate we could look at some parking I how I'm looking at this is for the bike lane so staff is already articulating that this is not in a proposal for safety this is a proposal for options for persons so looking at doing something just for options if if we're going to do something and we're gonna spend city funds I want us to be doing something the right way and the right way would be to check the streets that we're already going to do in this manner see how that works and if that's something that we then feel should be the policy moving forward for how we want to connect our streets we do it at that time rather than kind of rushing and and this would be not just another street as a test Street this would be starting to move forward to say this is the policy of Burnsville of how we will do our streets this is now normal this is what we do and I'm not ready to say that I also do want to investigate and I realize that those there's extra costs connecting if we're going to do bike paths and we're also going to be planning for scooters and we're also gonna be planning for more persons with mobility issues and those types of things looking at how we do our sidewalks and is that then we start to incorporate into our plans going forward in a little more of a measured coherent way I don't feel that this is measured or coherent so I am not ready for this okay uh councilmember kini Thank You Man we're um I have a question why is the bike lane always in next to the lane of traffic which means the parked cars are actually more protected why isn't the park cars six feet away from the curb and the bike lane run between those parked cars and I think it's less apt to get a more like a heathered that's why it's because if you give people it's the only thing it's easier to take okay let's hug that curb when we park versus but that's really kind of the premise I just I've been in cities where the cars parked a distance from the curb I most cities they visit the bike lanes are right next to the car traffic right I mean this is this is the norm like I'm wondering why we're giving such preference for safety to a parked car and not to the people on the bike okay council member work me I like the idea bike on this section I don't - councilmember Schultz's statement I think this is our policy on every rehab project that we have moving forward but given that this touches the heart of the city and what we're trying to accomplish there this seems to make sense and then I'm going to take on summary Keeley's point about you know lane reduction helping speed reduction and when we talk about parking I don't see a lot of parking on that section of travelers trail very often just because everything that happens there it is off of travelers trail so I I guess where I'm at is I'm okay with this section but I agree with council member hschultz that I need to understand where you're at I you it's because I need for boats I'm okay to proceed with a YES on the bikes on this one yeah but also want to make abundantly clear that I don't think we need to see a bike trail on every road street improvement project we do I mean this seems warranted given the circumstances of the hoc connectivity and the bus line okay so I hear you saying you would support to tonight's recommendation from staff for project xx - 101 and I see that council member hschultz you're a no one the bike and council member Gustafson you're a yes council member kini I'm okay with this with this because yeah I think it's well it's minimal cost but I'll echo both council member hschultz and Councilman will work when I think I understand why we're doing it we've been talking about this for years and we're now doing it well now we're also probably able to garner a lot of safety experience writer experience pedestrian experience because there we're not the first city to do this there's a lot of cities that have converted at Complete Streets for the last several years and so there should be some yeah some data on safety and also on biker you know biker surveys on are you using it or do you feel safe on it doesn't work etc it is a very cost-effective option compared to the ten foot path but yeah I would have I would prefer the ten foot path I don't necessarily want the cost that's expensive I support the bike trail because of everything that has been mentioned but the biggest thing is that it leverages our resources we're doing reconstruction in that area rehabilitating that Street striping is less expensive and if there are issues you can restrike it's not that much that comes out of your budget to do this so I think I have a supermajority so may I have a motion to adopt the recommendation for to adopt a standard resolution a4 and we ordered the improvements and approve the plans and specifications and order the advertisement for bids for the 2020 street improvement for North Area and authorize the joint bid for 2020 concrete elements and the rehab and 2020 signal modification councilmember Gustafson makes the motion second by councilmember workman all in favor please say aye all right opposed say nay and clerk has a division of the house Thank You mr. smiling the next item is yours and it is also a public hearing and this is to adopt a resolution improving plans and specifications and ordered the advertisement for bids for the 2020 Street improvement West area all right thank you madam mayor this project contract consists of henan Road area Dakota Place area Forest Glen area 143rd circle one 41st Street and Nicollet Court there are two unique items much simpler than the other contract one is again here there are a couple spots where we are planning to do a full depth milling and repaving 141st and Nicollet court and then lastly we are proposing on city property at the end of henan Road adding a cul-de-sac for emergency vehicle turnaround whereas currently we have a dead end with no turnaround of any kind the rest of the scope is consistent with what I've covered back at the beginning these are just some of those before pictures again you see a lot of poor streets and the less part ones are perfect for rehabilitation so then jumping to the overall budget estimated cost is 2.5 1 million for this contract and assessments consist of 19 percent of the total cost and again reiterated here are the rates for reclamation and rehabilitation and with this one know a joint bidding recommended with anything so we're just looking to adapt the standard resolution again for votes required Thank You mr. smiling do you have any questions for mr. smiley the streets do need to be done we're trying to catch up with all the streets and we only do how many miles per year because of the cost yeah yeah so anyway thank you this is a public hearing is there anyone who wishes to speak to this particular improvement project anyone who wishes to speak and close the public hearing members of the council your pleasure I need for affirmative votes to approve second councilmember Gustafson makes a motion second by councilmember workman all in favor please say aye aye opposed say nay and emotion carries thank you very much the next one is also a public hearing and this is a development to policy update this particular item has been discussed in work session miss Jennie Faulkner our Community Development Director is presenting and this is to adopt the revisions to the development tool policy application miss Faulkner thank you madam mayor members of the council I won't go through the report in detail but I do have two slides to share with you in the audience as you said we've talked about this item probably the last three or four months and we talked to had a joint session with yourselves on the EDC in October at that time you reviewed the existing Paula and perhaps what needed to be changed then in December we went into a lot more detail looked at what's out in the marketplace what other cities have looked at what Roseville has theirs was most recently updated and as part of that discussion the direction was to continue to allow spec buildings as part of our development tools policy wanted to allow it for retail since retail is often part of blight or redevelopment remove the references to bonds and we included language that it means better or best in our architectural guidelines the proposed policy before you updates a 25 year old policy application a hadn't been looked at since the late 90s it's much more clear it's much more concise and it certainly includes your policies and directions so with that asking that you hold a public hearing before you adopt the new policy okay any other questions from miss Falkner thank you for including the bonding you know I do know I'm not using public money on it all right okay thank you this is a public hearing is there anyone who wishes to speak to this item anyone who wishes to speak to this item seeing no one I will close the public hearing members of the council your pleasure motion to approve yeah I only need three votes this is a simple majority yeah I already work I already opened and closed it so are you making a motion to out a second and kind of everyone makes the motion second by councilmember Keely all in favor please say aye opposed say nay that was councilmember Gustafson on the second okay thank you and then the next item is the application for Northland real estate group for rezoning from r11 family residential to mix PUD mixed-use development a preliminary and final plat of a to lot commercial subdivision known as the retreat on Crystal Lake a concept and development stage PUD a variance for setbacks and building height conditional use permit for improvement of surf surface coverage and grading in Street slope and steep slopes for an apartment building to be located at 1 5 3:09 Maple Island Road were asked to approve a rezoning a preliminary and final plat a concept and development stage PUD a variance and a Cu P and to adopt the findings of fact and the development contract PUD agreement and ordinance miss Deb Garros our city planner is presenting this evening miss Garros good evening Thank You mayor councilmembers the application that you have before you is not new to the council you have seen this in various stages over the years Grace United Methodist Church has been in with several sketch plans over the years trying to look at a way to develop their property last year you did see a sketch plan and recommended that they proceed forward there was a comprehensive plan amendment which was done and that changed changed the land use of the site from single-family oryx's low density residential to mixed-use what we're doing for this first application is the rezoning to implement that comprehensive plan change with the rezoning of the site from r1 single-family to mixed use and Planned Unit development that does require a supermajority of the council for that rezoning application in terms of the subject site itself the Grace United Methodist Church properties can include about 6.1 acres of land there are a couple of encroachments meaning there are some items that are associated with the church but actually located on city parkland one in this location which is basically just fire pit benches those types of things and then also the access to the site is actually within the city park there's long history behind that there's a lot of history for this project that's included in your planning report so I can address any questions you may have but otherwise do not attend [Music] in terms of the site plan itself what is proposed is the existing church remains on the property the site plan includes using one access this access so that currently goes to the church and then using that to come in to the site doing a joint parking lot in between the church and the proposed 100-unit senior living apartment complex in this location here so they are proposing actually the changes that are shown there's going to be additional parking lot for the church that is located just to the west of the church and then they're going to basically take out part of the existing Drive or the existing parking lot and then put in additional parking there's overall about 22 new parking spaces in this particular area which would be just directly adjacent to the proposed building the site does meet our standards in the ordinance for vehicles emergency service vehicles to get through to the area and the the project includes development of both the parking lot areas and the senior building what I'm showing you now is the grading plan and this is because with all of the various applications that we're including one of them that's probably most significant in terms of shoreland or with respect to Department of Natural Resources it's related to the city shoreland ordinance and the application includes in relation of four retaining walls one here adjacent to this new parking lot one here adjacent to additional parking here and then one in this location in one in this location there is also a retaining wall that's proposed to enclose the patio area which would be available for the residents in terms of the subject site you can see that when we have areas where the topography has these lines closer together it's very steep topography so in the case of a shoreland district there are specific provisions that we need to deal with with relate or that are related to steep slopes this green line shows what the top of the top of the steep slopes area are or the top of bluff the area in yellow is 20 feet measure 20 feet back from the top of bluff and that's called the short impact zone and nothing really is allowed in the shore impact zone except for stairs steps landings those types of things and then we have this purple line which is the 30 foot setback standard and that's a 30-foot setback from the green type of bluff line and it's here that the variance for the shoreline district is requested to allow encroachment within that 30 foot setback and basically the areas of the building that are shown in red in this area here here and then a very small part here encroach up to a maximum of 10 feet into that 30 foot setback so the variance requested is allowing a 10 foot up to a 10 foot setback variance from that Bluff line the subject site is proposed to be basically four different parcels combined and then divided into two pieces the church will retain a lot to the north a lot to the south which is somewhat larger will be sold and developed by Northland who is the applicant and what I wanted to note for City Council again is that in this area that church has additional property the majority of which is you know steep slope area but the development itself is staying to the north of this line so they have modified the building location and size it's quite significantly over the various blends that you've seen and even since their comprehensive plan there is no encroachment of the building any longer shown within any of the public park they have also realigned the building to be a little bit more straight moved it further to the north so it's a way for their away from those that Bluff area and now there is not any encroachment within the city park that's proposed as a result the items the areas in yellow are part of the subdivision ordinance that requires standard drainage and utility easements to be planted and this is for all subdivisions five feet along the side lot lines ten feet along the front lines they can be additional area if needed what we're looking at in this case as a result of the project the four retaining walls are very close to the property line in this location and then also in this location and rather than having the applicant revise the plans yet again to try to move these retaining walls further to the east and closer to the park what staff is suggesting is to instead have the applicant apply for a variance from the subdivision ordinance to vacate those drainage and utility easements so they're going to have to come back yes and they are aware of that and the are amenable to all the conditions that are recommended the site just wanted to note for benefits there are PD benefits and deviations associated with the project they can remove up to sixty percent of the existing tree cover they're proposing about half of that so they will maintain the majority of the tree cover which basically is around the entire site you can see what it is so they are preserving many more trees than they would need to based on the ordinance for their landscaping their green space standards are quite a bit higher in all instances than the ordinance standard and they will be adding another fifty three evergreen trees and a hundred ornamental or shrub type trees that the smaller shorter trees to the site in addition to shrubs and I just wanted to call your attention to the majority of the evergreens are proposed in these locations which will also help to provide additional screening when viewed from from the proper adjacent to the park the one area that does not meet the ordinance is the existing church only has 43% of the perimeter of the church's landscape church has been there since 1962 it's been added on to a couple of times but it's a pre-existing condition and we did include with that the overall building perimeter landscape is 58 percent versus the 50 percent standard when you look at both buildings but lot one the existing church is a little bit short so that is shown as a deviation as far as the project it looks very similar to what council has seen in the past they are looking at a project that kind of emulate sort builds upon Buck Hill kind of a retreat type construction something that you would find in a wooded area and they also have the various elevations and building components that are proposed it does meet the ordinance in terms of all of the standards with exception in this zoning district again because it's a shoreline district there's a 35 foot height maximum height standard the building height is 60 feet overall and variances requested and needed because it's in the shore land district you have removed building height requirements like in the other districts but because this is Shore land we're dealing with that so that's a particular variance to the shore land regulations the benefits we highlighted in the report one of the major ones for the shoreline district and for the site in general is that the septic system that the church currently utilizes will be removed and this will be hooked up to full city sewer and water they will also install storm sewer they have three it will be three different storm sewer facilities that are located underneath the parking lot so there will be stormwater management on the entire site where there has not been any up to this date and then the parcel the southern lot will become taxable property the entire church property is exempt but when it's sold to the private sector that will become taxable property they are also under ground existing overhead utility lines I talked about the orchestra and the other green space that's exceeded they're moving about half the amount of trees that they could remove and they also removing a non-conforming shed and they are proposing actually one and a half levels of underground parking so with the project they are exceeding the underground parking standard it would be typically require 100 they are proposing 129 stalls the project does even though they're proposing a joint parking lot there is enough parking in the project to meet both requirements for the church and for the apartment and for guests yes as far as the pud deviations I tried to kind of categorize these it seems that there are a lot there are a lot but part of that is really related to the different sections of the zoning ordinance that apply for instance in the shoreland district we don't have any PUD provisions so we have to file a separate variance and conditional use permit for the building height for the setback and then also for the project to exceed 50% impervious surface they can go up to a higher amount than they are requesting but that still requires a shoreline CEP so included these in the deviations the orange ones are basically elements that are allowed by the ordinance but you have to go through CU p or PUD review so those are the first ones the yellow a F and G these are based on the existing conditions of the church its relates to existing signs which will be actually planted and located on the adjacent lot so they need to have easements to so they can maintain their signage and just off-premise signage is another PUD deviation that's requested items H and I are two things that I previously referred to they are deviations to a lot area standards but they are based on the zoning ordinance that has different standards in the mixed district as opposed to in the parking schedule on another note the parking schedule will be corrected so this will no longer hopefully be an issue before for the future once we get to that point and then there are deviations for setbacks and these I primarily went over these are usually related to the property line setbacks for the parking lot and drive aisles there is a another setback deviation that's requested and it's actually item number and this is not the shoreland district but a city standard that when you have a residential building adjacent to a collector Street or higher level Street there's an increased step back from 30 feet to 50 feet they're requesting a deviation to allow them to be 50 feet back and then let's see here a residential density the overall density of the project meets the mix district standards lot 2 is needs a deviation so we included that with this however with a PUD you can use the green space the density several kinds of elements can be reviewed based on the entire PUD area and you're not subject to just the individual lot so that's being proposed in this case and with it I'm gonna turn this part over to our city engineer Jenn des rues to talk about some of the public/private improvements metameric Council so this project does have some unique elements and that we are proposing currently the project does not have sanitary sewer access and so with our deed host community grant we're proposing to cost share with the applicant where the city would with our grant funds put in the public force mean and then the private property owner would build a private lift station and connect to it so then both the church and the new development would have access to the sanitary sewer the estimated cost for the D grant funds would be 177 of our four hundred and fifteen thousand that we are typically get from that grant so we have some left over from the grant if we're only using 177 yes but we have another project so if if our cost estimating is way off and we exceed the grant then the developer would be assessed we don't anticipate that happening but we have that written into some documents in that just in case the private law station we estimate will be about a hundred and fifteen thousand that would be paid for by the developer maintained by the developer and owner we're also proposing to use part of the host community grant and park dedication to pay for a new multi-use trail that would go on the along Maple Island Road the line in yellow is the existing multi-use trail it is not all seasons we we aren't able to keep it in cloud in all seasons so this new proposed 10-foot trail would be available all year round and so we would that is 750 thousand there's quite a few retaining walls needed to build this trail we would propose using the perk dedication from this project and then the remaining deed host community grant of 238 and then if the costs exceeded both of those funding sources the developer has agreed to be assessed up to $60,000 if our costs and when we are bidding this come out in differently than we anticipate then we'd have to reevaluate but that's where we're at where we think the cost will come through so you're saying that the city will have a benefit with this trail because of this development yes we will yep the trail will be available to everybody it's a public it's a public we do have a standard development contract and PUD agreement that goes with any project of this type but because we're having public improvements that are being constructed by the city using a multitude of of funding sources we have that development contract drafted and already in the developers hands typically those are recorded at the time that the plat is recorded in this case I have a schedule that shows we need to record this pretty quickly to proceed with the deed post community grant it also specifies maintenance responsibilities the public improvements are maintained publicly and that lift station will be a private improvement maintains I believe and then it speaks to the schedule back in November the City Council approved the use of the deed host mini grant for these two purposes the Planning Commission had their public hearing last week tonight we're at the City Council meeting in order to keep on schedule with the deed host community grant the developer would need to sign that development contract within 10 days and then we'll submit our application to deed they can still deny this but we've already gotten some pre-approval from them that these are projects that they would support and then the developer would need to pay their part education by in mid-march and have their final plat recorded same time and then obtaining building permits in June with a substantial complete completion by the end of 2021 so all these are terms that are in the development contract that are a little different than a typical development because we're using public funds and and making public improvements yeah and this is the reason I have some questions around all of that since we're using the deed grant we're usually it's about our infrastructure in making things accessible for potential development here we're using this grant fund for a particular development that's been there but you're telling us that there are some benefits to the city I can see a couple of benefits the multi-use trail is a benefit and then getting the church off of septic is a big benefit from our environmental perspective yes I see that because getting that the other part that with the contract so they wanted to be senior housing does the contract speak to that that it has to be senior housing they're using public funds and they're you know and we want to make sure that that's what they're going to build and I do know that we don't have control if they sell the building and make it into general rental you know because we're we can't do that correct mr. Germany yeah that's correct I'm trying to cross these T's as we go along here the development contract and PUD agreement describes this development as what they're going to be building I need to check to see if it specifies senior it specifies the number of units and multi residence it's a it's a partnership they're gonna use some of our grant funds then I think they need to agree and so that we know because our citizens are concerned about that and we'll be hearing from mrs. Laura about you know do we know that it's going to be for senior housing or is it going to be general market Mary council we can certainly look at the language I think that is something we should do and I see that you have 37 33 conditions yes mayor councilmembers before we get to the recommendations the there was a neighborhood meeting that was held in November attended by about 15 people the application as it now stands is much I think far superior to what you've seen in the past one of the biggest items of contention previously was that they had wanted to take a sewer and route that through the park and we did a lot of study on that the applicant asked us to study that and paid for a study in that there's no longer part of the application with that the Planning Commission did hold the public hearing they have recommended for zero for approval subject to the 33 conditions that are identified the the information that has been submitted and discussed in general from the public on the neighborhood meetings I think they feel better in general that the park will not be disturbed but there are still folks that have issues with being able to see the building from the park or from the lakeshore and and also the erosion control and how that is proposed to be handled and even that one of the conditions with regard to the erosion control yes okay yes at the applicant dead state at the public hearing that they would state of the project would be marketed to active living people 55-plus and they will have bylaws mandating residents be at least 55 years old so that is what is part of the public record related to that good so they have a declaration and bylaws that speak to that and it would be part of the of the contract okay well okay well we'll see what staff does okay with that the conditions are outlined again the ones kind of in this yellow color are pretty much standard type conditions that you see with most developments the specific ones are number one nuts talking about the variance to the drainage and utility easements they would need to make application for that number two we would need an access easement to be recorded over that part of the driveway that is within our city park and that the fire pit and benches that are encroaching be removed there private property number seven the septic system would need to be removed we want that a condition because that is one of the big I think ticket items that is positive related to this application number eight is related to noise mitigation in that will need to be included in construction plans that is something that was also noted by the Minnesota Department of Transportation and they do need to meet Minnesota Pollution Control Agency standards and they have indicated that they will do that in an address that condition item number 15 an easement will need to be provided allowing Grace United Methodist Church to cross over - lot to that private property to access and maintain their signage and then on this one the kind of grayed out items are ones that were referred to by our city engineer that are included in the development contract or addressed by this and the as far as other things that are associated specifically with the development would be 32 and 33 and those are offered up by the fire department and they do want to have the hydrants meet their standards to be able to provide fire services and the water lines to be sized accordingly to meet that and that's primarily because this building will not be accessible around the entire building but just three sides is that in the contract these are conditions of the PUD so yes all of these conditions would be included yeah yeah it would be a joint development contract plan agreement I can stand for questions what happens if the developer doesn't meet the goals of the contract because it appears to me that you have specific goals about the park dedication when that needs to be paid when they need to pull permits and begin so what happens if that doesn't doesn't materialize then the contract is not it's it's not void correct so what happens to our money so that is the reason why we have such stringent deadlines so that if the development falls through we can apply to deed for a new project and so that would be happening we come to you and your first meeting in April with a new project okay so you're going to hold them to those conditions of the contract and of the PUD okay because they what I'm hearing from you is that there are deadline dates we have to have that check for the park dedication fee in half they have to be pulled permit by June and so forth okay but if they miss those states the contract is null and void okay okay thank you any other questions for Steph good presentation okay mrs. Cisco you you wrote that you wanted to speak this evening please come forward and we did get your email and it's also in the record here I'm here concerned about the project called the retreat and Crystal Lake for many reasons first of all is housing complex is called the retreat on Crystal Lake it doesn't include include the word senior in it if this is what the Northland real estate group is intended this property to be used for seniors then it should have it in its name also it states that this retreat is located on Crystal Lake it is not in Crystal Lake and should not every peak should not include that terminology with it this proposed property is located on a bluff next to Crystal Lake Park this project name is very deceptive in retrospect it could be called the senior retreat on the bluff it will offend homeowners or play hefty taxes for their houses on the lake unless they own property on the lake and pay these top taxes associated with it this real estate group should not be allowed to have quote on Crystal Lake and its title name this real estate group states this 100 unit complex will be for 55 years and up in age can they guarantee this in writing without this in writing this 100 unit complex will contain more than 4 hundred people these units are up to three bedrooms the term they use as death is considered another bedroom and will be used as that so the two bedroom plus den will really be three bedrooms and can accommodate up to six people per unit the one-bedroom plus den will accommodate four to accommodate four people so the average unit will consist of four people per unit without the anything and writing that states that they are 55 and it's been raining it's just word of mouth this real estate group are great sales people remember that they will see what you want to hear if you approve this agreement tomorrow they can exclude the word senior and the age 55 and up to rent to anybody and everybody please remember this do not let this complex become 8 for more renters within 3 acres of land that was only single-family this proposed apartment complex is exceeding the shoreland variance put forth for the land at 1:5 309 maple Island rolled it looked seen in height by 25 feet that's over 2 stories tall well exceeded with extra width extra 10 feet into the city park bluff area this will cause serious erosion or possibly a collapse and a bluff over time what happens when it rains five to ten inches like in California in the houses slide down the hill this complex needs to be limited to 35 t-top feet tall but no more than two stories do not this is real estate group pressure and allowing them to build a 60 foot tall building it doesn't need to be that tall it's against the Shore land regulations we who live on the lake have to follow every rule and every regulation are we getting a serious trouble don't let this Real Estate Group make their own rules they must abide by the rules like lead who own homes on the lake and near the parkland please do not then ruin our beautiful view of Crystal Lake Park was an oversized extra-wide complex also this complex is exceeding the amount of units per square feet as allowed in the proposed new zoning mixed-use the maximum number of units should be between 45 to 60 3 total not 100 that is proposed do not let these salespeople can miss you that they need a hundred units they don't and it certainly exceeds the maximum number of you know and a hundred for the three acres that they are proposed to require acquire do not let them stop on us the city and make it so easy for them please have this real estate greatly follow all the rules and regulations and limit their number of units for this oversize building only on the southwest side of the church land or trees stated as 56 to 62 feet tall modest complex is proposed to be 60 feet tall what about the north east and south sides which are seen from Crystal Lake Park path houses located north east south and from Crystal Lake this building were pursued so high up in the sky over the trees from the north east and south sides where in the summer in the winter will be an eyesore the only side that this complex will face will be as high as is the trees that will face 35w freeway everywhere else the trees are located below the bluff it will now be higher than this complex you will see this multicolored apartment from all angles other than from the southwest which has seen from the freeway site anyway do not let them build this complex up so high keep it at 35 feet tall per the shoreland regulations remember the only reason they want taller is more money in their pocket faster do not let this complex get out of control keep it no larger than two-story complex the color is proposed are so loud there are seven different colors and materials on this facility they should be neutral and limited to one not a multicolored mess it should be a brown and brown signing to fit and blend in with the nature and church around it blues oranges and grace of all shades will not fit will Stan don't be seen miles away the colors put bullets are too many too loud in too much of the serene area please make them change the colors to a neutral non multicolored collage there also be 261 parking stalls at this complex there are 117 right now for the church that means 260 people 61 drivers driving down a single lane furniture this maple Island Road was lined up for half a mile every day of cars waiting to get onto 160th Street to get out to the 35w freeway to go north to go to work remember these soul cards seem called seniors 455 and probably have a job they are not sitting at home staring at a church these cars will block off access to the speedy gas station Dunkin Donuts and other businesses located there they'll block access to the maze of Island Road and the maple Island Road intersection Solly's cars lined up and the reverse coming home from work it will be a mess they are planning a two level below ground garage with this complex parking isn't that going to sturb the natural environment below has this been looked into won't is proposed underground garage be level with the pathway below and in the city of Burnsville property won't has caused serious environmental issues won't this cause the buff to clothe road faster or just collapse I don't know I was just thinking there should be more of you to search done on this matter please have a natural environment come first there will be criminals juveniles partiers drug dealers and addicts roaming all around the hidden pathway is along Crystal Lake Park the police will be called there continuously whether if the complex are into the park the letter will include beer bottles cigarettes dog messes garbage will be scattered everywhere there will be drug deals done between Crystal Lake boat launch to the Crystal Lake Beach West and this parking lot is gonna cost the city more money than what they will be receiving and tax benefits from this unit being built and it'll be a waste it would be nice if the people in the surrounding area would have a say in this matter we were not giving sufficient time to state our opinions or be heard the only reason 15 people attended 15 people attended November 20th meeting was that that there was not sufficient time in advance to attend this meeting the post date of the letter was November 15th it was received November 20th by us an edition was only addressed to my husband I have copies if you'd like to see that this is not appropriate to have their dress am bulb addressed just to my husband's specific name mines no where we found our houses in both of our names it should be addressed to residents add or mister mrs. or both of our names this is the serious discrimination is myself without sufficient time within hours of the meeting and with very serious discrimination with this dreadful apartment complex they should not be able to break ground I have a couple concerns for Deb that I was funny maybe you guys can ask as to a lot of the things in the contracts referred to staff and I'm not sure as to when she talks about so-called staff if that's just her or if there's other people in the contract she's referring to her how many people are in that staff that are proving different things also another question I have I'd be saying that people have access from this new trail that they're putting on there in the wintertime like they're saying it's not plowed anywhere it's not followed that trail along anywhere along the frontage road so it's like only gonna be plowed from this new facility only to Crystal Lake and that's it or is it can be plowed all the way from Crystal Lake Road all the way over to maple Island Road I don't know where it's gonna be plowed if it's just strictly for the apartment to Crystal Lake Road it's just for them it's not for everybody to share please do not allow these salespeople from this Northland Real Estate Group to purchase this land do not let this Real Estate Group put up an apartment complex for 400 people learn more do not let them exceed far above the height required by the shoreline regulations do not let them build 100 units surpassing the maximum amount do not let this complex be able to use quote on Crystal Lake when it's not do not let them use multi colors all over the building do not rush into this project just because of funding do not let the Lord North land real estate group or Deb or anybody force you in accepting this project it is not right NORs and real estate group must have something in writing to stay in this unit is for those 55 and older they must redesign this apartment to fit within the shoreland regulations it must be no more than two stories tall and must have forty-five to sixty three units and must be located further than thirty feet from the block and must be a neutral little further palette to blend in the natural surroundings you must change the project name to not include the quote on Crystal Lake they must add senior living to the name of their project they must make sure when they are building down into the precious Bluff for their to level below ground parking that this is environmentally safe safe for the billing and safe for the environment which is it surrounds remember this unit is already infringing on the bluff way too close do not do not make your decision to that decision today people living near this area need to be informed with a decent amount of time to address all this information there are too many concerns and serious schorle and variance rules being broken the land will not be the same please take all this into consideration with your vote remember this Northland real estate group has only one thing in mind its how much money they can make as fast as they can make it in the cheapest and shortest amount of time it's about getting the biggest bang for the buck they are great salespeople and sound very convincing but without any of the above and writing as false advertising make this Northland Real Estate Group have its important details in writing for the group and any future property owners of this parcel of land this Real Estate Group must make this changes before you approve this non-senior complex thank you appreciate thank you mrs. Cicero and we have read your letter and so I'm going to ask our attorney because you've had a lot of things that you said we ought not to do there are some things we can and there are some things around the law that we cannot so you want us to tell them to change your name we're not in charge of their branding mr. genic do we have any authority to tell them what their name is supposed to be no matter we have none it's a business transaction ours is only about land use and Zoning and that's what we're here to do also miss Garros is this the third time reiteration in the last three or four years that we have seen this project from one development group and I think this is the third second time or third time that northland has brought the project forward and no it's before that because we had a different developer yes it was a different developer before and this is the second developer mayor councilmembers the first time that we met just with the church was back in 2015 yes yes for a sketch plan I believe that you have probably seen you know an iteration of this type of plan probably five times mm-hmm yeah and we've had meetings because one of the concerns that our residents of Crystal Lake it's so concerned about is the park concerned about the shore land and so all of that from those meetings have been addressed yes okay so these are the kinds of things so it's not that it's overnight we have been working we've listened to our residents from the Crystal Lake Association who was here during the first hearing and that was the first developer and also with this developer I'm happy because what to say that they didn't go through the park because I was opposed to that the park is a public park and to pull their utilities through the park is I don't think was a good idea so they continue to to work and have done it the way that we wanted them to do it and that's to pull it down and go down maple maple Island Road yes yeah which is what we suggested to them at the very beginning but that was the other developer and we were at the time reconstructing that road and it would have been the appropriate time for them to do that then but they didn't have the finances that's why I want to make sure that in the contract they hit all of the markers Deb will share with you when it says staff there's a whole lot of people including the attorney can you talk about the way that we do development review and all of the people because even in the in the conditions fire is involved so please let mr. Sisler know when we say staff who all isn't included in that develop and review committee thank you madam mayor for all development reviews we have a development review committee that is involved in reviewing all land use and zoning applications that development review committee is set up with one person from every department at the city that's involved in any type of review that would include the planners our economic development coordinator the police fire department natural resources city engineer trying to think of building official and fire so its staff is referring to that holding the entire yes can we all set the first time missus Oslo the Department of Natural Resources also weighed in on the application so we try to cover everything and we listen to our residents and try to understand all of those things but for us our attorney tells us what our what authority we have yeah but thank you for coming in and sharing and I just wanted you to know that some of the issues that you were concerned about you know I'm I'm confident that the contract and you heard me ask the question if they don't hit those goals and the dates then the then the contract becomes null and void well thank you very much thank you see council thinking madam yeah thank you mrs. thistle okay council do you have other questions for Miss skiros thank you the Planning Commission meeting I think the bigger concern here is that if the church sells that the potential for another big project to go up next to this one exists I think that's probably the bigger certain this doesn't look hardly anything like it did when we saw it at planning because you guys have done so much work on this and come so far we can't predict the future on what that site's gonna look like if that church were to go away but just given the density of this project and what would be left it would be difficult to duplicate a project of this size right next to it with just the parking and everything else that would be required with it and I'm not asking you to say that could never happen but it would be a challenge to do something like this right next to it mayor council members need co-sponsor member workman the reason that I did not get into this at the Planning Commission level is because anyone can make an application for anything at any time yeah you would as the City Council you do have provisions in your ordinance that allow for density increases provided certain things are are done with the development and it's ultimately the City Council's decision that probably the north part of the property is if the church were taken down would probably have a little bit better development opportunity because there's just more flat area yeah it's hard to speculate of course I know but I wanted to give some acknowledgement to that concern and I agree it would be tough to do something like this twice on one spot but I don't know what the development culture is on putting two buildings of that size you know right next to each other if that's even something that so anybody would be even been interested in and that all assumes that the church doesn't persevere and and by all accounts it looks like they're doing fine so I I just again I just wanted to give some acknowledgement to those concerns and any other comments with that I will entertain and I need four votes for this what we're asked to do is to approve the rezoning the preliminary and final plat the concept and development stage PUD the variance and the Cu P and were asked to adopt the findings of fact the development contract the PUD agreement and the ordinance councilmember Keeley question for the developer yeah um yeah can you hang on just a moment do you want to come here and give us your name and address for the record please okay because I just had one person who signed up for this item my name is Mike Young I live at 361 Maple Island Road in Burnsville okay at the Planning Commission meeting of October 18th 2018 Connie Morrison a former mayor of Burnsville and a member of the Grace Methodist Church stated the following we are just trying to cut down on the terrible expense that bill that we have when we had a fire for people don't know this fire occurred back in to July of 2003 it was set by an arsonist who broke in yeah in early January of 2020 the United Methodist Church stated that it is looking at splitting the church due to LGBTQ issues the following is from an article of the Tampa Bay Times published on January 2nd of this year the plan announced Friday through the church's new service would allow congregations that mean for the church's traditionalist stands to spin off into a new denomination taking 25 million dollars from the denomination and keeping their local church properties just for clarification that 25 million isn't for each congregation that's a sum total to be split amongst whoever decides to go that direction this proposal would have to be approved at a meeting of the churches governing bodies and called the General Conference scheduled for May 20th excuse me may 2020 in Minneapolis at the Planning Commission meeting last week Burnsville resident Curt and US Fed raised the concern of the church eventually vacating the property due to financial issues he asked a question of the city regarding the density of the property as mixed-use in the 2040 comprehensive plan it states for mixed-use 15 to 30 units per acre if you take 6.1 acres and you multiply it by 30 you get 183 units in other words an additional 83 units that could be built beyond the current 100 unit four-story development at the same Planning Commission meeting last week there was a discussion on transit orientated development zoning ordinance the person who spoke on this issue noted that up to 80 units per acre is allowed for this type of zoning so if maple island road were to receive the transit orientated development designation the church's property could expand up to 488 units the way the city is playing loose with the 2040 comprehensive plan does not give one comfort that a future designation from mixed-use to transit oriented development is not possible [Applause] Apple Valley lakeville in prayer lake have not nor have a plant are they planning to build mixed-use developments in the middle of an open space park and that held true for Burnsville until this project and for Crystal Lake Merritt Lake Marion Orchard Lake and Pryor League no mixed-use zoning exists either on the lakeshore or one lot removed until this project it was also mentioned in the past by city staff that this property was being brought up to current standards regarding zoning as this property came into existence before the zinthus the city of Burnsville existed and a single-family residential was how this property was zoned at that time this conformed with the rest of the properties around Crystal Lake and it still does so its current zoning is not out of the ordinary it is the ordinary it fits with the surrounding open space Park in the neighborhoods of Crystal Lake taking a look at places of worship I counted 25 such properties in Burnsville of which 60% the majority 15 of them are low-density residential zoning next on the list is business zoning with six places of worship which constitutes 24% there are only two places of worship located in mixed use zoning why is Burnsville bending over backwards to rezone the property from low density residential to mixed-use and not the other 15 properties that I have identified in fact River Hills United Methodist Church is also zone low density residential in Northland real estates 100 unit four-story development it belongs in locations that are already identified as mixed used in the 2014 comprehensive plan what you are doing allowing this project to go forward is to flush the 24 comprehensive plan down the toilet and make up rules as you go I wonder why the city has taken such a great interest in rezoning this land which lies in the middle of an open space park from low density to mixed-use and I have a question I think for the attorney here sir to make the restriction on the property so that it would stay 55 a senior living type place wouldn't that have to be something a restriction put in the deed to run with the land mr. amer come so that is correct so by not having anything legally they can do pretty much what they want and if Northland decides to sell a year from now or whatever they're not going to be holding this forever somebody else can change what they want to do with that property so what you're suggesting is that we asked the developer to put it in the deed the developer this it would be the owner of the property that would put that in because they would be asking that this remains as a restriction on the use of the land and the selling of the land that's correct yeah mr. Chen I believe you're both correct my understand is the developer tends to do that which will be the owner of the property yes so that's something that we can we can do legally so that it can restrict it okay okay I hope you take the rest of the things I stated tonight as well as the documentation did you look at that man earlier which documents all the stuff I wrote for the Planning Commission oh yeah yes I did okay yeah so in the other part that you spoke to which I think gives us a time right now to take a look at the rest of that property that belongs to United Methodist and what they what they intend to do with that but if that we can take a look at that and really make sure that we protect the environment because for me as part of it is protecting the environment and that hold area okay thank you very much okay thank you mr. earnest vet good evening Thank You mayor and members of the council and staff as well my name is Kurt Aniston that I live at 8:50 Bluebell Bay Road on crystal lake and I have lived there for 36 years and I want to give the current council and staff some history of what happened on crystal lake when I came to the lake in 1983 for the lake was in bad shape and about the mid 80s to late 80s we came to the city and said can you help us get this Lake improve because of all the runoff that was going we're at the top everything runs down from Crystal Lake and your response to us was you find us the money and we'll spend it so the Crystal Lake Improvement Association called other cities Bloomington Minnetonka White Bear Lake what how do you raise your money to do these dredging and do this stuff that needs to be done in these ponds I said we because all the runoff comes from the streets and the roofs of all the citizens we put a tax on the water bill we came back to the city and that's what the city did and we have raised many many many and the city has spent many many millions of dollars on not only Crystal Lake but all of the watersheds here in Burnsville and and due to that fact we have taken Crystal Lake off of the impaired waters list just last year I never expected that to happen with end with in my lifetime so then about another 10 years down the road the mayor and the council and the staff came to our Lake Association and said we need help we need a shoreland ordinance that coordinates with the DNR and and helps everybody and protects the water bodies so we went to Crystal Lake Keller Lake Allie magnet twin ponds early lake sunset ponds and a partnership with the city and we worked and we worked and we worked on this this city is filled with everybody now and we gave notices about public hearings to everybody on all of those bodies of water multiple times because we have multiple public hearings including we gave it to the church and the church was included in that so what I ask are two things please do not give them a variance that you will not give to the residents on that bluff make them back off the required 30 feet and that's what we did as a partnership with the city those ordinances were put in play to protect that lake so we do not go back and so that setback I want it to be 30 feet instead of 20 feet and the second thing is please require them to put in 55 and older we do not need a whole bunch of kids running around there guys come on help us out we're paying the taxes here thank you Thank You mr. Ennis but is there anyone else who wishes just making yes and this is a developer please come forward give us your name and music with the record madam mayor members of the council thanks again for your time and consideration night I know you know there are a few comments here and from a snapshot not being involved in this project for two-plus years it might seem like we're about to make it a and it seems whimsical but it's been about two years and prior to this I evaluated three other potential projects that were proposed here and with the dozens of meetings that we've had and staff has been phenomenal to work with what you have in front of you today truly is a collaborative result this isn't me pushing if it was reassuring you know could it have been different yes but this has been truly a collaborative result you know from a view perspective of the lake if we were all to think what are the most valuable units on the lake it's it's the ones that can see right over it and if you look from the lake you're looking lengthwise versus width wise on the building and that's by design we could have had that building jog to the north and that would have been more impactful from a view shed standpoint those trees are just as high as our building not to mention I don't know the exact footage off the bluff from the lake but if you're on the main body of water is gonna be very difficult to see that building because of this setback because there's 70 plus feet going down to the lake and we're set back you know 100 yards so not to mention we're built into the side and overshadowed by Buck Hill so what we're trying to do here is fill an unmet need we've analyzed Burnsville and there is truly an unmet need for quality housing for active adults so we've always envisioned the site to be senior focused in the beginning it had higher acuity there was a neighboring project that went up quicker than ours and we adapted and actually feel that this is a better use for the site anyways given its direct access to the trail system so these are folks that predominantly are retired and they want to be out they want to be active and they want to be immersed in a beautiful setting and you know I I grew up on a lake I loved the lake I'd want to protect it at any cost and that is the same sentiment that we have here currently the runoff going into the lake is a hundred percent so it's not captured it's not treated there are no systems in place after we are done we're gonna capture 90 percent of the rain or snow events so we capture we treat we infiltrate so and we went above and beyond the requirements that the city put in front of us just to mandate that currently there's erosion going off the side I walked around down below on the trail system you can see it eroding our goal is to stop that the second was the septic tank you know it is dangerously close to the lake we're gonna get it out of there before it fails because imminently it will fail at some point we as you had mentioned we collaboratively work to ultimately agree to a rear out of the the sewer lines and you know we truly work together there was grant funding that will be mutually beneficial where we'll be able to complete and incomplete trail loop for the public it's not just serving us that's for the public so not to mention I mean we're putting a a lot back on the tax roll that currently is not on the tax roll so you know to assist with some of these tax dollars I guarantee you we're gonna be parent and paying our fair share um we're excited to create a new attractive housing option for folks that no longer can or want to maintain a home anymore it's real easy for someone to say that lives on the lake that owns a lake that shouldn't change the lakeshore but what I'm trying to do and what we're all trying to do is create that option for those folks that currently don't have it and what a beautiful setting to be in wake up to every day not share that with other people and allowed them to experience it as well so that's our goal it was asked that would you put language into that it's the the development is for 55 and older before I speak to that I'd have to consult with my attorney I'd I never remembered any project that I've worked on where I've been asked that and actually had conversations you know with cities on this where they say frankly that they legally can't mandate so I'm gonna have to go back and and look at that but I can't agree to that house but it's it's our complete goal to keep this 55 plus cos wells in our architect is one of the best architects in the city and their full focus is senior housing so that that's why we had them here that's why we're designing these larger units we have other projects where we're doing traditional market rate non age restricted and I'm going smaller units these larger units I mean I'm losing money if I'm going towards a market rate environment without age restricted because frankly they just don't need them if you have the small families traditionally the small families for a living and the single-family homes these larger units are for folks that are leaving their single-family home and not used to living in 800 square feet or less that's why we have an extra bedroom that's why we have a den it's for an office or for the kids not for five extra people but it's to create how attractive housing options for folks that are downsizing and to create a unique living experience will they stay in your community otherwise what we're seeing is they leave the community and go somewhere else so we feel it's a beautiful sight again staff has been great to work with and this has not been a quick process and I feel truly it's a better project today you know based on everyone's input so I appreciate that well I have to thank you that you reroute at the sewer lines because I did not I wouldn't have voted for it and I think you knew that we're going to go through the park yeah well we're glad to collaboratively work together and I think we're at a good spot huh okay I'm gonna thank you so much uh they're questions for the developer I have put council member key I I didn't see your name so my bikini turned it back off thank you madam mayor I just had a question one of the earlier drawings had a lower elevation on the lake side with a rooftop deck did that get taken out in the multiple revisions of the design before it got to where we're at today is it specifically just the rooftop deck portion yeah I thought it actually dropped down a level where it was three levels on that end for maybe a couple units with a rooftop deck overlooking the lake yeah we you know from that point I think till now we've probably gone through 50 different iterations to make this work and we had to push and pull for parking for setbacks and to maintain our unit count not sure if that's where it ended up I understand but we did pull it back I don't just I don't think I've ever seen a project with 33 conditions on it I think 6 to 12 is more typical and if we had if we had like if we break - honey it's pretty rare 33 is I mean I would agree with your sentiment that you have it's taken a while saying a lot of times you've come before us over the last few years to finally get to a project that staff the Planning Commission has been able to live with and and you've accumulated 33 conditions to be able to get it done I do appreciate and I'll just repeat what I said early on for the protection of the water shed district I I'm glad we're gonna have you know city sewer and it's not septic tank anymore I think there's a benefit to the trail I was not aware that our trail that goes down by the lake isn't plowed also all winter long so I'm not sure why that is but it'll be nice to get around there there's there's there's a lot of benefits to this and I think the comment was made by one gentleman about the the need for the church to sell and honestly that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the decision that that that I made early on in supporting this project I don't really care we don't get into judging the motivation of the seller that has nothing to do with us this is this is a project that I think fits well and offers a very high end product in a position that is well off the lake that is well out of the view of the lake and I you know I think you've addressed all the concerns that anybody has had except there's still some some folks that clearly have that don't want the project to go forward for for a lot of their own reasons and I and I understand that I used to live on this lake and I would and I have been concerned about preserving that into the lake and what that view from that Park for the rest of the lake has and and I think you've done it and so I just don't see any reason to deny this but is it any other for mr. Farrell any other questions thank you so much thank you um miss Garros and the variance that was spoken to by mr. Ennis met and mr. young this year I think I'm trying to pull up the the shoreline ordinance variance is and then I want because masoom that we haven't done any variances down in Crystal Lake but I know of two homes that we just recently that we did variances down in that area yes and so tell me about the variance here and how it compares in terms of the homes the single-family homes that we had to address down and crystal Crystal Lake right on the lake yes madam mayor and councilmembers the typical variance is that you would take a look at on the lakeshore single-family lot usually relate to setbacks to the ordinary high water mark this site doesn't have that because it's hundreds of feet away Lake yep it's different I also I don't I don't know if there are any additional bluff areas that have not been developed yet on the lakeshore so if you have someone that wants to come in and do something they they do need to address the standards just like this applicant if not they can apply for a variance they can also apply for a PUD those things are available for everyone in this case with the bluff this is one of the few that I have worked on in my 15 years here just because we don't have a lot of land that meets the shoreline definition of bluff the most bluff area we have that meets that definition is along the Minnesota River and it's land that's already owned by the city for the most part so we're not usually seeing development towards that the some of the earlier plans showed the building encroaching out into the city park which I did not evil yep were not for that in this case when they made application earlier actually the building did did encroach into and over even the top of bluff so they have worked to move the building back and to modify the design is shrinking the width and now you just have these four areas that are red those are the only encroachments into that setback and the maximum is 10 feet most of them aren't 10 feet but the maximum is 10 and that's why we included that 10 foot variance but the only encroachment are these 4 red areas of the building so it's kind of like points of a building as opposed to the whole building and so you all have worked very hard with the developer to address those concerns that came out of all of the other 5 reiterations that we saw and that was before whether that was at a work session or before the Planning Commission and then to us so this has really been shrunk down so I just wanted to make sure that we're addressing that we do do variances whether they're single-family on the lake and it is very important that we keep our lake by our our water bodies clean and I was very much a part of that whole initiative that first of all cleaned up our water bodies got early lake off the impaired waters list and now the Crystal Lake last year was very difficult to do but I believe that the citizens of Burnsville care very much about our water bodies those who live on the water bodies and those who do not live on the water bodies so we're all working together to ensure the our environment because we have a sustainability plan that speaks to that to that and we also included in that is the pristine of our water and and also our drinking water so a lot of those things are included so I see that you have addressed that with the with the developer I just wanted to mention the variances and that a lot of work has been done with this so councilmember Keely thank you actually I have to point out something and we've had a lot of variances over the last 13 years I've been on council come to us on Crystal Lake and many of us I'm not saying I'm by myself many of us have been extremely flexible and supportive of granting those variances to allow people who own property on the lake to make the kind of Lake home that they wanted and envisioned and they were running into constant problems with our our shoreline ordinance and our and our restrictions in and I've been a pretty tireless advocate of getting those to be supported and approved to allow a person to basically use their property I I can't you know turn around and say well because this isn't a single-family home I'm not gonna be more open-minded to them I think I have to be consistent with a property owner whether they're a property owner being a developer buying some property that is setback significantly far from the lake and the people who own properties that go right up to the water so this is this has been a constant need for some variance of some sort and I've been very very supportive of helping individual property owners to be able to do what they want to do to build their dream home on the lake and and/or modify the dream home on the lake so I glad you brought that up madam mayor I think it's a big point I'm not changing color because of this project I'm still gonna be the same as I am if any one of these folks in the room that are objecting to this project came up and needed some variance office are there any other questions for staff mr. Farrell or anybody else are you ready to make a motion members and I need four votes I move to approve no second councilmember Keely makes the motion second by councilmember Gustafson all in favor please say aye opposed say nay and the motion carries I think what we've done is to work very closely and I think our attorney having some discussion with regard to the deed and to see where that is and I know mr. Farrell you will have a conversation with your attorney and also would be with the church so as we continue to move forward the other thing that I think we need to do with the members of the church perhaps our staff can have a conversation about your your future and what all of that is about so that we can in looking at it into the future and so whatever that may look like for you and so we can all work together thank you the next item is the ordinance amending Title 3 chapter 1 intoxicating liquor and a 3 2% malt liquor to streamline the licensing process and the miscellaneous housekeeping updates okay you can put your name down mrs. Collins so I'm saying who's okay mrs. Collins is presenting this ordinance amendment this evening mrs. Collins thank you madam mayor City Council the proposed amendments are intended to streamline the liquor licensing process removing steps in the current application process that we're not statutorily required or that could be performed administrative Lee the amendments are outlined in your background some of the examples of these changes are eliminate specific license categories remove the three quarter-mile separation restriction remove the freestanding building requirement eliminate the need for an annual public hearing for renewal license administrator approval for changes in ownership corporate our officers partnerships etc eliminates of residency requirement for the owners to live within 75 miles of the city removes language that is redundant from state law your background also included some feedback from our local OpSail business owners and I believe some of them are and the even here to address you this evening I stand for any questions any questions from mrs. Collins thank you I think the first person who wishes to speak on this item mr. Holtman please come forward good evening my name is David Hoffman I'm with bred Lion lickers at one to four zero zero Nicollet Avenue I want to thank you for the opportunity madam mayor councilman staff for letting me speak I have some concerns and I did thoughts on this um I've been up here before when there has been ordinance changes and the deregulation of this industry is is really an important item in my mind this is an industry that is controlled at three levels of government federal state and local I understand and agree with some of the free market ideas for businesses but that's you can't let that fall together the alcohol is a specific industry that can affect people who don't use it there's laws of alcohol Thurs for that age factor for hold you have to be it was 21 back in the 50s and 60s it went down to 18 in the mid 70s and then back up in the late 70s early 80s it went back up to 21 people have to be responsible when they use this product it is an item that like I said it can affect other people you know there's laws about demand of alcohol you can drink a drive a car we that's a good regulation to have it's a very important regulation to have we don't want that to go away we don't want and even the reducing of the alcohol level in one system was a good move to do the part about alcohol being controlled controlled substance what we have to look forward to in the very new future is recreational marijuana that's going to come in and it's going to come in and it's if approved it will be just like when alcohol came out of prohibition when when they made that legal it was highly regulated because they were worried about this mind-altering product this isn't bread this isn't the local hardware started thing this is alcohol this is something to control people's lives you know we all we go into liquor stores and you see how they operate and you may be in the liquor store for 10 minutes you don't buying whatever product you might see but what you don't see is what's behind the scenes the training that our employees have the responsibilities that the owners and the management have because there's people that will come in just for a recreational use but there's other people that come in and they need the product they have to have the product it can be a demon in their life and we really have to take that into consideration it's it's a extremely responsible position we put ourselves in when we decide we want to get in to this industry up and in this industry for 40-plus years I've seen multiple changes in Burnsville regarding alcohol but after every change has been made they still realize people you have still realized that you know this is not just another commodity this is a controlled substance that we do have to deal with so I am afraid of the saturation that have seen in other communities surrounding us Eagan st. Louis Park Chanhassen Bloomington we have two other stores in Bloomington and South Minneapolis Minneapolis is pretty strict they have geo restrictions and they they do pretty good job we all do a pretty good job because of the ownerships responsibility in what they're they're taking in burn so we have the freestanding building I've always said and believe that when you have a free-standing building you're easier it's easier to patrol within our store and outside of our store because a lot can happen outside the store I worry about strip malls you know because there's you know different kind of there's cars for different businesses there and the owner of that liquor store inside he can't keep an eye on what's going on with in these big massive parking lots when when the strip malls are involved we are I get nervous here when I have to talk like this but we are is our mission to keep to distribute this product in a in a very responsible manner the the deregulation has been happening at at different levels in different states and where it's where wine and beer has gone into grocery stores before the three to beer and the strong yeah three to going away well three to is not going to go away and actually it's gaining momentum in other portions they called FMB star flavored malt beverages like the white clouds that we see out there now you know there's white class 70s I'm very very popular that's three two so that's still growing three two area is still growing so I wouldn't be changing and this this is an argument that we're gonna have at the state level I wouldn't there I I wouldn't believe that this is going to happen this year or next year or ever for that matter we just don't know so I don't I wouldn't like to see the city of burns will change ordinances in anticipation of this of the state changing their laws you know we do when you saturate a market you look at Bloomington you look at Eagan you look at these other communities without with with very little restrictions you have businesses that are just barely stings of this they're just staying above water it's it's hard for them to survive they have we have in this industry a we have to pay for our alcohol our beer and wine within 30 days if we do not pay those bills we cannot buy from any other wholesaler nobody can sell its product well if we can't buy product we can't do business and if we can't do business we can't pay our bills what happens with a lot of people what I have seen and what I've heard is you know people when they're desperate because their businesses are failing they may not go do have abide by all the regulations imposed on them they have you know it's like if this guy is intoxicated you know you know I really need to make the sale I really need to make payments are if this kids 21 years old maybe 20 you know he looks I'm gonna take you know thing I'm not gonna they may take risk desperate people do desperate things I I have you know back to the dual restrictions I think that's a good idea it does not saturate American you know we have pawnshops in Burnsville we only have two but there's a Geo restriction on those that's a good thing you know pawnshops you know you wouldn't want to see those on every corner neither would you want to have liquor stores in every corner we talked one woman was talking about the building about not having a well liked wanted to have a lot of kids running around the trails and seeing beer bottles see how often you hear about beer or alcohol was this involved and this was it involved in that you know you hear about accidents on the roadway domestic violence and that they'll always point out was alcohol or drugs involved this is something this is a commodity that has to be regulated and my in my personal view it has to be regulated I'd hate to see that go away I'd hate to see things just deteriorate um you know Burnsville has got great regulations when we reinvested into the heart of the city we had thought you know is this gonna be a good thing to do and there was rules and there's codes and regulations what made the heart of the city what it is today this big you know all the building is going up everything looks nice down there it's because of regulations it's because of codes I don't believe that we need to deregulate alcohol or or other things to make our community less beautiful less safe regulation is a good thing you know over-regulation you know on some things yes you know that might be a problem but with alcohol I wouldn't I wouldn't change a thing I think Burnsville is community the way it's set up here it works well and nobody seems to be complaining that it's over there's there's there's too much regulation on it so when you have a nice when you have regulation like this you can have a positive business environment where businesses are more able to succeed and when businesses could succeed they can do other things and what we do what about I do with Red Lion I am I pretty deeply involved in community events I sponsor for big events every year and burns Owen cork which you've probably heard of the burns will fire must fight to craft beer tasting and that had been so successful that five years ago I brought in 360 communities and we started charging people or just making a suggested donation which helps out the 360 communities I helped a mom's few Liam I helped a moms program and these people all count on us because you know as we all do budgets you know we're looking at where our funding is coming from well when you have an environment where businesses are able to donate and help out you know it's just a good mix it's good community involvement if things if markets get saturated you know I've been doing this for with with these charity events for about 18 years now and they these people count on me and I will continue to do so as long as I can but you know when things get saturated and business goes down and we start to struggles things are gonna kind of they're gonna dry up I'll do as much as I guys can but I know all these liquor store owners have their own charities that they excuse me that they donate to so I don't think it's wise to change this environment I think it works well for us I don't know where the change is coming from but that's my thought on this whole so listening very carefully to you mr. Altman you want to retain the geo distance quarter-mile and I in its record about yeah and everything that and just listening to everything that you said the other thing I was listening carefully to is so you want to retain the freestanding building required yes you know that's that's a smart idea it's a smart idea the owners those properties have a bigger investment into it and if owners have bigger investment they're gonna be more in tune with day-to-day operations and the success of their business they're not gonna want to take chances they're gonna you know it's well because the the reason I'm just listening very closely because when we changed the ordinance for the Burnsville shopping center area we made sure that there was a boundary so that there everybody can and we did it because we wanted Costco yes yes past the first one of the first changes yes yes and then Haskell's came in well MGM was always there and then Haskell's came in and and of course Total Wine and I don't know if we oh well bluemax is within that boundary right so you're you're okay with the boundaries because you were part of that yes composition we were and because it was a mile the Geo distance was a mile before and all of you agreed to a three-quarter mile distance and so I'm hearing you say that you want to retain that distance yes outside of the shopping center area yes the reason it went from a mile to 3/4 mile because there was a store that wasn't compliant it was with the end of my horn that's why they changed if you look at the change that was done by the burn zone center retail district nobody new came after total and that was just a big-box player everybody else the only people the only new liquor license I came up there were Target Cup of foods and the grocery store to the west and those people were already had there they already had their footprint up there any nobody else has gone up there because they look at that they look at the saturation up there and it just wouldn't be a wise business decision to go up there and they look what they pay for the square footage and they would look at the competition and look not just the competition the amount of stores up in the oil you know that's not a good business decision I wouldn't do that and I don't think you know in this out outside the the retail area we've had two properties change hands but within the peers but Burnsville burns a liquor outlet and then blue max just sold now these people have bought these built or has bought these businesses and and they pay more for having this freestanding building because it's just it just costs more than than being you know renting eleven hundred feet out of a strip mall so I don't I don't think change would be necessary for outside for the ordinance at all at all I think we have an ordinance that works the people here that are in business are running good businesses they've been successful they donate to their communities it's we don't have the problems that Egan has I think Egan has 24 licenses and what I had heard at 14 we're for sale businesses you know businesses are good they're they're not gonna be for sale you know that people are struggling out there so that's a big concern when you saturate when you deregulate you know a market okay thank you at least I know what it is you're asking for wanna retain the the Geo distance a three-quarter mile double dip and the other is to retain the freestanding building outside of the County Road 32 shopping center area I am I did have a question on one of these on page two the issuance of licenses it says until intoxicating liquor license on sale a intoxicating liquor license shall be granted to restaurants including brew pubs bowling alleys centers and exclusive liquor stores how can an exclusive liquor store have an on sale license you know we're only allowed to pour I have not so I'm just a my I'm not understanding the wording on that okay mister Jam Nick page two right under definition types yeah and it's um yeah it's page two ordinance number page 200 definitions and it's number it's a three one three yeah yeah and it's the very first one yeah I mean it's a mayor-council and David it's its current language in the city called current it's in the current code it's probably something in the amendments that I should have deleted as well yeah okay I I think you have your answer so that's going to be deleted because well mayor council what are what I'd recommend doing is on some of these just to make sure we don't have unintended consequences that I put it in for a future amendment rather than make a change now on the fly and research whether or not we had a situation where we had a combination store or establishment or those types of things I mean this is this is a nation store of selling food and a liquor store selling food probably yeah it's not uncommon for most commonly was done in municipal liquor stores and smaller and smaller and smaller towns where you would have an off sale wing and an on sale bar and the clerk would shuttle back and forth from the two areas there's a string wall a strict wall from net and that's for the state regulation just for like Costco or a cub or you can't they have to have their own entrance zero checkout and all of that yeah so yeah that's a good cat well and I just kind of you know it when before you vote on a minute to an ordinance I I just feel that you really should know the business and you know the exact language of it I am like I said you know when you come in the store you to see this you see these smiling faces that hopefully they recognize your face and then great you and everything but what you don't see is what what's going on behind the scenes how important it is to the employees and the owners and the managers the responsibility that they have to distribute this product so like I said bernsen's got a good thing it supports this industry it supports its business owners and and things are working well it's theirs it's not broken I don't think you'd be able to say if it's not broken don't fix it oh so it's just a concern when things you know you just hate to see what we're what unintended things could come out of this down the road that none of us saw here thank you for the catch yeah but we understand we understand your what what you're talking about problem you you want to make sure that we retain the Geo distance and and the single first and if it was freestanding building step and even the wording of the liquor license I can't find it in here I still think it should be an exclusive liquor license for four strong beer liquor and wine in a exclusively on sale yep yeah yeah I think that's important to have that there as well okay thank you thank you for your time yep uh John period yeah good evening my name is John Perrier my brother and I opened a store a little for two years here I've been on Burnsville residents for about 16 years one of the reasons we came it was the freestanding building we've put a lot of investment into that building and it was over by a valley naturally by Valley natural foods one of the things I don't think a lot of people understand is you know we're told who we can hire who we can't hire when we need to do business while we can't do business how we pay our bills when they pay our bills it's a highly regulated type of business and and it's it's good yeah that's that's what a lot of people need to have in their lives and stuff again so when we looked at this location it was with the thing of the radius the 3/4 mile it was the freestanding building we have stores in other cities and it's it's hectic when you're in a a mall type of setting regulating looking for cars who's in cars that they're you know younger one of the things you know we look at us we want to be part of this city we're we're heavily involved with the larger nonprofit cherry that's based in Burnsville we have been for many years one of the things I think people need to realize is that you know our job is to bring a service to the city that's meeting people's needs and if we want to do that and we need a partnership for both of us well I thank you that you're a resident of the community but you also decided to also have a business in the community since you have businesses in other community but two years ago you also chose to do this and you chose chose because of the Geo distance and because of the freestanding building like I said I'm the major investments we've put into this building you know it it's substantial and for you guys to change things it puts this kind on a not a level playing field with other people want to come in afterwards okay thank you so much thank you yeah mr. cop Oh miss Scott yeah mrs. Scott yes I'm sorry mr. cobson with the new madam mayor council members staff my name is Jamie cop I live it with awesome Lakota Blaine I have lived in the city my whole life I read yes I bought two homes in this city I also work with my father I co-owned Crosstown liquor with him co-owned it for about two years now I wanted to point out that we're here and we're talking about alcohol and I know it's already been talked about that alcohol is a drug in a controlled substance and I think it's easy to forget these rules and regulations because alcohol is so socially acceptable you go to parties someone offers you a glass of wine you know everything people joke about it you know games you have a beer you know it's not nobody looks the other way at you like oh you had a beer today you know what we forget the consequences of alcohol were us owners and managers see it on a daily basis we see what the drug does to people we see what negative effects it really has alcohol affects people in different ways yes it could make you happy it also is a depressant and it also can cause a lot of anger and violence we daily deal with people in those situations and by getting rid of the three four my rule my biggest concern also as a citizen is what is that going to do to the community because now you've opened up all these other locations that this drug is available and if you look where our store is located on County Road five and burns a Parkway we have technically if you go from 13 to south cross there are seven different locations that can sell well therefore it's 3-2 or full and if you get rid of this how many more people are gonna come in do you really need alcohol every point three miles in your city my other concern is for the minors you send a minor interest or and they stick out like a sore thumb our staff is trained to keep an eye on any young people any activity in parking lots and the fact that getting rid of three-fourths means that they'll have more options more places if they go to a gas station they don't stick out like a sore thumb they're just getting a pop well they steal a bottle or use a fake ID where everyone that we have hired has been through training through the city that we appreciate that you guys provide so it's I know it's socially acceptable and you think nothing of it but if you really in the industry you can really tell what it does to people I also like it was brought up about cannabis cannabis eventually will come to Minnesota and I hope that the city isn't planning on putting it on every corner that there will be restrictions just like alcohol and cannabis technically has less side effects and alcohol it doesn't make people angry or violent it makes you more calm it's still a drug yet it's not as socially acceptable and people look different at that like you think of cannabis you're like wait we need to restrict this but why don't you have that same opinion of alcohol and as far as ownership and freestanding buildings outside the 42 district I agree when you own something when you own that freestanding building you have that investment you have your heart and soul into that business and if you lose that ownership in Minnesota or the 75-mile you're not they're not having their heart and soul into it it's just a number it's just they threw some money there an investor they just want to see the profit on paper they don't care about all the little things that US owners here today do you say you wanna hear themes is you belong here that's the city thing why should that be any different for business owners why should we open it up to let some guy from New York or wherever come in and open a liquor store and just have it run and not have anything really invested besides his money into it if you want people to belong here they should be from here thank you mrs. Scott thank you mr. Hiller hi Colin mayor members of the council my name is Scott hello I own crosstown liquor mm West Princeville Parkway that's the address of the liquor store I also live in Burnsville and I am bred here yeah it was back in 58 actually first along in red burns the lumber my dad corporated burns the lumber on my birthday which was in April of 58 we'll just leave it at that so you know we've been I've been part of Burnsville my family's my heritage has been we we know a lot about Burnsville I could tell you stories but we ain't got time for that I'm gonna just reiterate some of the stuff that's already been talked about I'm not gonna touch deep depth of things but just my concerns or what Harpal said and you know the other people from the other liquor stores just reiterating that and just saying that you know you need to look at that you know um you know an example I'll just write notes down there you know a strip mall you know they a couple people are on at the point you know versus the freestanding building and it is a strong thing that you might not see but we do you've got we got the cameras on site we can see the cars out there we see we see a car full of kids and you see one person come in and these are these are things that happen on a monthly or weekly basis there's a kid out there they send up the 21 year old and then we go out and ask for IDs for the people in the car and we'll deny that person the sale you know they're sending in the 21 year old I'm sorry you got a bunch of minors in the car you going somewhere else we're not going to sell to you because we're responsible for what we're trying to do we're not just letting you know there might be 20 year olds and then there's one 21 year old so he's going to buy for everybody and there's examples you know you're not going to get that in a strip mall situation at all or gas station you know if you're doing the 3-2 thing which I heard they pulled from that at least for tonight you know which was a good choice or whatever I think it's premature the you know which what you're trying to balance is free enterprise do you want free enterprise or do you want you don't safety you know in in your oh hey I'm for free enterprise and that carpel says we're selling we're not selling widgets we're selling things and control people and it's you know it's worse than cannabis as I'm hearing you know you know that the safety issue versus free grinder prize and it's your job a City Council to look over the Burnsville and say what ordinances should we do to make it safe you know we worry about a bike trail and whether the car should be on the outside or the inside of the lane that we just do seem like an hour-plus on that subject but whatever just you know I'm saying here we're worried about the safety of a biker but we don't care about the safety it's not you don't care but it's like well we just look you know it's okay we just have liquor stores everywhere it's okay because we want free enterprise and it is a different thing in City Council you have to be responsible for that you're the one who's going to either do you know either happen or not happen because you're gonna vote it in or you're gonna vote it down you know or you're gonna pass and say you know what let's just sit on this or we'll leave it way it is and you know we'll dress this horrible night joked about this we've been at this subject pretty much our whole life it goes back into the 70s that we've hit these issues you know andand you know and it's been a good thing that it's have been happening and there's private people out there that are being helped by that you know um so I covered that events but events and in you know you know I was up here a few weeks ago getting some award for something whatever anyway but because of the because of the the events and that we we helped the community my family has helped the community a tremendous amount I did a little hair line I did about this much for helping the community compared to what my father has done or my family has done you know what I mean we've done a tremendous amount in the community you know and so by having us being part of the commune owning ownership and being here I think that's really compelling to you know we're also giving help to you know whatever organizations that weren't healthy you know and I just want to reiterate that you're not gonna get that you're not gonna get the community Burnsville being helped you know all throws out that there's Total Wine how much does he how much are they help the community on a day-to-day basis they're you know down in the town and the you know the community the people themselves you know so I want to bring that up I'm for the same thing that Harper was saying about that you're mayor you're in reading the you know freestanding you know keep the license you know off sale you know the language that you were discussing you know I just want to say that I'm you know beaten that same girl or whatever so and that's about it okay just so it appears to me that you all are all right with us the amendments with regard to the public hearing and the initial application and licensing you all are okay with all of that the thing that I'm just hearing all of you talk about is to retain the geo distance and also the freestanding building but you're okay with you're okay with making sure well removing where the owner of the establishment needs to live 75 75 miles away you can you can live on you give up without yeah you can win for something I'm not speaking for the undermount pure yeah so you those yeah but all of you all live live in the city or or or in Apple Valley or Rosemount but but you're okay with all of the amendments to clean up a lot of this is something making a streamlining the process for all of you yeah yeah I think the thing that I'm hearing from all of you this evening is retain the geo distance retain the freestanding building but the rest of it except for what mr. Holtman identified yes and that way our attorney has that and that's going to come back yeah it's just a mob liquor sterling yes in the language yeah but also item three on the first page of the agenda report this minute this amendment eliminates specific individual license categories that should stay okay that should stay oh that's important that's that's where it is liquor license is granted to an exclusive liquor store for strong beer wine and liquor that debt should stay okay [Music] mayor and council I don't think mr. Altman's reading it correctly in a sense that the laundry lists a through em the legislature frequently adds categories of licensure under state statute and this is just intended to be that if the state adds M through Z that the city doesn't have to review and adopt that we can this council can issue a license for it so it just takes out the list it doesn't change anything substance but we're just but we'll still comply with state law that is correct okay but is is that written in because of maybe the impending three-two beer going away and stronger yourself so a liquor license for a liquor store is going to be different than a three-two license or we don't know that because the legislature has an act right that's correct Samantha I wouldn't want to change any wording in the way the current yeah no and so we will address that once the the legislature acts and to mr. Jennings point whatever that is we will comply with with the estate statue okay okay right now we don't know anything about it and until they act it doesn't make sense for us to do that so just two things that you're okay with all of the other amendments I think so I don't know Maya just yesterday I just I got this last night and I just started reading through it and I know there's a I don't know if I have missed anything and there probably is something I miss but the most important thing is I just I just fear the change of a system that has been in place that is working well it's just it's not broken so I don't know why change okay yeah mr. Perry Eric please come to the I guess I'm trying to figure out what benefits the city gains with somebody who lives in New Jersey owning your liquor license the pay taxes for their yeah they pay taxes but are they living in the city are they living clothes are they spending money in the city no did they and I said here five years ago and Tobal came in and Iran said I gave we did almost 1.5 billion dollars and I gave way to over a million dollars to charity and my fly over math that's not even 1% it's just a thought you know we do more than that mm-hmm would be interesting to see some of that money stay here okay and we like that and we yeah for me personally I love that I see all of you involved in the community so I really thank you for that you're involved in the events you are involved with nonprofits you help you you're engaged it's a little um our average employee part-time it's been with us almost nine years and our stores you know we have employees who live in Burns oh yeah and and we want to keep them you know that's our turnover rates very low so just stop yes thank you okay okay it appears to me members of the council they're okay with all of the changes except for - well man counts on basically both of those are encompassed as mr. Holman indicated in 3 1 3 yeah paragraph e yep okay so though it's at the councilmember Gustafson I was I was just gonna say we have this 75-mile thing how does it cost coal or Total Wine get a license uh miss miss Coley uh madam mayor and councilmembers I don't know that that's a provision that we've ever recently vetted orange is in there but we don't force her yeah so therefore that's why you want to eliminate cuz we're trying to eliminate things we just don't do anything yeah well that's correct and there is a provision on page six three one eight twelve dealing with corporations partnerships and associations for managers on-site or designee and managers so it's it's it as a outdated provision that that was carried over and just seemed to be difficult to administer enforce anyway so yeah so we should get really yeah okay council members at Keeley I have been a pretty vocal proponent of free market principles and rules apply to everybody that no business is afforded government protection I don't I have espoused that opinion when we've talked about liquor license over the last 13 years I had a great conversation with one of the owners represented in the in the audience and recently and and the discussion and I think I may have brought it up of the potential of us having to take up recreational marijuana and I thought to myself okay if we're gonna open this up and let everybody play by the same rules no matter what kind of business they're in then we have to do the same for marijuana shops if they're gonna come to Burnsville and we the council decided to allow them in if the state does pass a law and legalize is recreational and that course makes a person pause and think because everyone's you or your comments are spot on there's there are social impacts but they're not as great as alcohol and yet in an in theory today in all the states that have passed recreational marijuana that I have studied I haven't I haven't found a single one that has allowed them to be in the same positions main street call it as a liquor store so it's being excessively regulated and driven by primarily out of fear I mean it's it's never been legal before well at least in modern times but so it caused me to really think about this and I I think the other thing is I'm I'm not gonna change my feeling one day I believe that's going to work we're gonna these restrictions should go away but I do believe there's some mitigating factors that don't force us to make the decision today or don't put upon us the rationale to make the decision today number one some people in their current businesses have made investments that that aren't that dated and and so we should afford them some respect out of the investment they made and number two the state is considering you know strong beer in grocery stores getting ready three that are going to have some impact on the business and so I don't have a problem taking out three one three for the time being and moving forward with everything else that's in this proposed amendment I don't think the freestanding building should stay for it quite frankly I think when you if we're gonna keep this the three-quarter mile separation I don't I don't think freestanding building is a requirement but I can go either way on that is to me that's less of a factor than the 3/4 mile separation but I will I would be willing to set aside for the time being in anticipation of state law changes potentially coming and potentially decisions that are similar in nature because it's a controlled substance with legalized marijuana potentially coming to us and removing number three three one three provision out of this amendment and moving forward with the balance okay councilmember Gustafson I had agree with Councilman rickielee although I think in the three one three I would want to change that language at least four so the work of plant whatever the license the state issues we issue I did that part of that here no need the geo distance although free-standing bill guns and bold basically yeah okay well you're it's 3 1 3 e is what you're talking that's for you and three as a whole no yes three one three yeah yeah I was learning at all three one yeah sorry I didn't know that so I was right everyone 3e I'm I'm fine with takedown with the other language I think just for streamlining purposes so that we can just whatever licenses the were allowed to by the state issue we can just issue it doesn't have to keep coming back to us okay any other comments councilmember Schulz I would be out voted for this I feel awful that businesses up until this point have had to incur costs that they shouldn't have had to incur I understand the pain of a city making you put in extra costs such as having a free-standing building such as being restricted on the possible locations that you could have I also think that that two wrongs don't make a right and continuing with something that would if somewhere someone else wanted to come in that they would then have to incur those costs as well to me is is compounding a long-standing error and I'm I'm sorry that happened I also don't think it is well I have a huge amount of appreciation for the support and also the fact that you've been long-standing businesses you are obviously extremely conscientious responsible citizens extremely involved just pretty much everything you could ask for for a business I don't I mean I would include all of it including 3 1-3 e I do understand the difficulty but I also don't think that it is a city government's role to protect businesses from competition and I'm also pretty interested to find out what other businesses we have a Geo restriction on pawnshops were mentioned I would love to know what those businesses are I think it's awful that we treat businesses unfairly or unfavorably there was a mention of pawnshops we have a sitting city councillor who works for a pawn shop and I find nothing immoral or disreputable about that industry so I do want to be clear about that however if my fellow city councilors do you want to remove that section I'm gay anyone else yep council member workman um I have struggled with this because all of you are good people continue to do that and that's why I think much trouble comes in because I kind of echo what councilmember Schultz says I don't think you I wish that those provisions weren't here that puts you in those positions in the first place because then we would be here talking about this I when I look at the provisions I don't see any major issues with the residency requirement I think with Costco and Total Wine I know there's some workarounds and our code that allowed for that and we're not really enforcing it so I'm okay with moving and then as this discussion took place I look at freestanding building or geo spacing and I think if one of those were to go away but not both were relaxing but not caving I don't know the great word is for that but I would be more I would be comfortable removing one but not both of those but if the wish is to get to the state and see what their decision is with grocery stores I would be ok reacting to whatever happens there if KUB and these other stores are allowed to sell wine and beer then that changes this conversation with freestanding in really geo spacing because I don't know if that would supersede local authority or not so I'm comfortable kicking the can on e to see what the state does and it sounds like they might be acting on that this session so I may be so officially second counselor Keeley's so real retain 3 1 3 e yeah but I you know I want to see what the states what the state decides to do on I'm calling a grocery store beer but three too strong yeah they allow the sale of wine and beer with in grocery stores and gas stations then this whole conversation changes and I don't know if preemption exists in that scenario so I want to thank you all for coming in and speaking because you're the ones who are in the industry and you know that's great things about the industry and the things that are not so good about the industry and you spoke to it this evening I believe that when the when this ordinance was put in place by the mayor and council then back years ago it was looking at Allah not to saturate the community because there was one time when there was a gas station in every corner and what they're looking at is that how do we maintain the public safety you talk about a substance that you that's regulated and it has consequences and you can either hurt yourself if you've taken if you've been by too much or also kill someone else and and we see that so there is a reason why this particular product is regulated and I appreciate that you all care about that and that you send your employees to be trained and to understand the consequences and what the ramifications are going to be you know one of the things that I continue to look at is not only the economic piece of it but also the health and welfare vaping anybody can buy tobacco anywhere and now we see the unintended consequences of something like that and what it has does what it has done to two people so I look at that and I say right now you all are in the industry and you're saying to us keep the Jews spacing at three quarters of a mile and keep the freestanding building right now you're saying it works anybody else who wants to come into the community and can meet those standards they can with in the shopping center area there are places where they can other liquor stores I can go they can go into the shopping center they can have a free-standing building close to Hill there's open spaces there but no one has come in so first I want to thank you for your diligence and thank you for caring about the community and that you take time to make sure that you have cameras outside of your building so you too can help the police because one of the things they say we all have to be conscientious about the health and safety of our community so thank you for that and I agree that we should remove we should keep the geo spacing and the freestanding building and that we can will continue to work with you as we go along because it is a controlled substance and it is a substance that has hurt people not only killing the driver who is intoxicated or someone else so it is a product that has a mind-altering consequence and it can impair one's behavior and so I like what we have and you said that it's working and you're okay with it so we're ready to make a boat you don't need to come up Scott I think you're okay thank you for that clarification so what I'm hearing is that everything else that we're amending is okay except for the 3/4 mile yeah 3 1 3 P to retain 3 1 3 e may I have a motion please so moved there is a motion like councilmember Gustafson and a second by councilmember Keely all in favor please say aye aye opposed say nay and it passes thank you so much and thank you for your contributions to the city I really appreciate that you're engaged and you continue to give back thank you members of the council I will now recess the Burnsville City Council meeting so the Economic Development Authority meeting can convene president Gustafson if you met Ameri like to call to order the Economic Development Authority are there any additions to the agenda seeing then we'll move on our next item is election of officers and I need a motion for what we want to do this year make a motion motion to adopt the slate which would be a continuation of last year slate do I have a second second you say we have a first in a second any other listen let's vote on it all in favor the slate remains the same we'll move on to the consent agenda prove the minutes of lat loved our last meeting and December I need a motion on that all in favor all right and the consent agenda passes on to our regular agenda and that's the development tool policy update can we get the presentation again I forgot it's been so long you want to vote on it would you like to vote on it yes piece okay a motion move to approve yeah second counts all in favor aye aye passes our next was the adoption of the 2019 annual EDA report miss Collins sorry I'm busy typing but I didn't go back to look at the slate I just wanted to let you know that you do have I did put it in a little bit different format this year and in your background you did have a list of all the items that were approved in the 2019 here for the EDA and do you have any questions and otherwise it's just the annual report any questions commissioners the annual report Commissioner Kouts moves both all in favor hi mrs. no miscellaneous so our next move is on to a germinating a motion motion to adjourn motion to adjourn blatant that can I show you the second by Commissioner Schultz all favor all right and we'll move it back to medium thank you madam mayor thank you um I will now reconvene the Burnsville City Council meeting and members of the council there are no other items to come before us this evening and a motion to adjourn is an order so moved motion and a second all in favor please say aye opposed say nay and emotion carries good night and thank you for being with us