[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] I now declare that the Plano City Council preliminary open meeting is reconvened in Open Session that all council members are present council member Prince will be on Zoom soon as you pop her up all right our first item on preliminary agendas is consideration and action resulting from the executive session our next item uh discussion and Direction regarding the bond referendum mayor and Council Jason Gregor as is pinch hitting for Karen rhods this week but tonight we need to um uh get down to a final uh number including the projects as well as the propositions uh the number of propositions to be able to go through this so Jason you want to lead us off ask for a password sorry so good evening Jason M Gregor I'm the budget CIP manager as Mark said we were last year on 13 and you had a presentation on the list of projects that are preliminarily included sorry in the proposed 2025 Bond program grouped into propositions tonight we're here seeking Direction on which projects you would like to have included and how you would like the propositions to be ordered as it goes before the voters on May the 3D we will then come back on February the 10th with a resolution to call the election happy to answer any questions you may have thanks Jason any questions for Jason yeah okay go ahead oh sorry um there you go so uh Jason I I I have a question about the traffic improvements part so there are there it's broken into 1 two 3 four five six seven seven sub parts so can you just give me a very very very summarized um meaning for each one of these I'd be happier if our director of engineering were available to answer that than me you were you were there the other night I was so and so that was he he went over all those so are these the ones that was from that tour yeah right and they are as it says they are tentative at this point council member RI thank you mayor and thank you Jason I don't know if this is a question for you or maybe Chief bigger staff but I was just wondering if we could go over um as I was really digging into this one thing that struck me is that it looks like the 20 million for the fire station 8 remodel is almost as much as the cost for the Fire Station 14 new build and so I was just trying to um you know figure out what's driving the uh the renovation cost being you know almost comparable to a new build uh in that regard just to for greater understanding that's a great question so the way that was set up was during the last Bond we received money for a uh for the remodel and as we begin to work on station five and on Station 8 looking at them together uh a little bit of a change in what we needed for station five and a significant increase and the cost of construction caused us to move some of the money over to from Station 8 over to station five and if I don't know if you've had a chance to go by station five and look at it but we it's called a remodel but for the most part it's it's truly a rebuild more than more than it is a remodel um at that at that station we'll have a total of five Bays increase the number of bedrooms did increase the size of the the living space all those things Station 8 would be very similar to that it's it's a remodel but it's closer to a rebuild by the time you add the two additional Bays that we're talking about adding that way we'd have space for an ambulance if we needed it have space for a reserve apparatus as well there uh you would also have to add living space for additional firefighters there lockers bathrooms bedrooms all those things so and doing that along with all the the major items that needed to be done which were your Ro your AC all those major items uh it was the recommendation at that time facilities for us to do this significant remodel there'll be parts of it left but for the most part it will truly be closer to a rebuild than a remodel okay well thank you for that information Chief bigger staff so that makes more sense and so it's still your opinion that it's more costeffective to do kind of the remodel that's Clos to a rebuild for Station 8 rather than doing say what we're doing with Station 3 where uh you know where we just kind of build a new one and and move into that I think so and it's in a great place okay where it is right now it's got a larger lot which gives us more options than than we had at station three so I do think it's probably the the best option and just getting the opportunity to watch what happened at station five and how good that's turning out um I then I would I would say yeah that's that's probably the way to go okay fantastic thank you Chief beger staff you bet okay all right thank you Jason appreciate it so um Mark sent us this um spreadsheet that was that was I thought it was really effective so it's got all the the list of items on here and to to try to move this thing along I'm just G to go around the dis and I'm going to start with council member Smith and on on those three categories you you got okay you've got reduce if if that's something you want to talk about or uh if if we would suggest moving it to uh four years from now so um I I'm hoping that that everybody's kind of spent a lot of time on this and has come some thoughts really put together on this so that we can kind of get through this uh at the end of the day the voters will decide and so that's that's what we're we're doing but I do want us to to be thoughtful on how we want to present this to the voters and so uh councilman Smith if you don't mind uh you're you're a veteran here you're one of the big veterans here so you can you can you've done this before yeah so I'm going to let you start us off uh if there's any thoughts uh if you want to leave everything alone you want to uh look at look at some uh uh items that that might might be able to put into 29 uh I'll I'll I'll give you the floor thank thank you mayor uh it's we've all spent a lot of time reviewing this as our staff has done I know we started out uh Mark I believe originally we were uh at uh what 1.6 billion when the full wish list came in when you ask everybody just tell us what you need and what you what you want and then staff did a good job they cut that down a half but then we're looking at 700 you know million which is uh which is is a huge huge number but uh I think the important thing to for me to start with is for our uh citizens to realize that we're we're all doing our draws we're trying to look at the needs of the city but ultimately we're only asking for the authority so whatever number we come up with tonight uh that doesn't mean we're going to actually issue bonds and borrow that much m money all down the road good good point uh as example would be I think our our police training facility which which I believe we we we definitely need because it's it's not just a training facility for those of you know it's a full-fledged Police Academy that trains and puts out peace officers for the whole area around here and I think that's that's a good thing to have but we're showing that at 51 million for instance and uh we partner one of our partners is the City of Richardson and and my understanding is that uh they will potentially put in approximately $18 million for for that project so there's an example that 51 million that we're asking for because although there are partner they you know will put that in contractually it's not something we can count on should something change on their side they might not do it so we have to ask for the full 51 but that's a great example of that uh we're asking for more than we may actually end up uh you know end up issuing uh the other thing is we've had multiple reviews uh staff Council looking at this thing and trying to pair it down uh as most we can what I looked at is what what I've always looked at since I've been on Council is our job uh as a governmental entity really I used to say two things there's only two things that that we must provide uh I've included that to be three because I always considered you know public works as part of infrastructure but we provide for public safety first and foremost no matter what we provide for Public Safety uh second thing is infrastructure even though we get yelled at a lot because our roads are under construction they're under construction because we're not a a new city anymore and a majority of our infrastructure is 30 plus years old uh we've done a good job maintaining it because we have gotten this point and we only need the 300 something million of infrastructure because we've got so much that needs to be replaced but that's uh that's where I came down so what I did is I looked at the uh all the categories that that we asking for and I think we can probably get it down closer to the you know you know depending on how like things like the training center all work out we can get down closer to the 600 600 to 630 million you know plus or minus fairly I say fairly easy some may not have that same opinion but for instance uh I think we must do our Public Safety and our infrastructure and Public Works projects with the exception of that is some items uh in the uh streets section I believe we could pull out uh independently and fund those out of general fund Capital maintenance you know other other areas to on a pay as you go kind of basis and that I looked at would be the uh let's see where's my notes here that we would be the the downtown RightWay because I think uh we can do that Capital maintenance and we also have a tiff uh set up for that area that we could uh potentially set it up and pull money from Tiff to have Tiff fund that so that would be one thing that could come out uh screening walls again big necessity but I think again that's something that could be paid out of General funds Capital maintenance as we move down the road and then lastly would be uh sidewalks same thing sidewalk number could be pulled out and and done on a pay as you go you know type basis uh other than those three three or well there's four I guess there was two items in in the uh the public works but if we combine those as one public works there those three things must get taken care of the the rest of the projects land Acquisitions uh Library repairs all these things you I I agree that they probably need to be done but I just I don't think that we need to borrow longterm to pay for those things again those are items that I'd like first to see uh done in individual budget sessions and paid for of ongoing expenses so that's pretty much what I see and then the last thing is no matter what we do it's important to remember that the public the voters are the ultimately the ones that are going to decide all we're doing is making recommendations it's going to be put on the ballot our citizens are the ones who are going to decide what gets done and what doesn't do so anyway that's my thoughts and I'll pass it on to councilman Williams thank you councilman Williams oh um ah there we go there you go okay sorry uh thank you mayor and echoing uh councilman Smith's sentiments that our primary responsibilities are Public Safety and infrastructure um my calculus combined a couple of things first it's the perceived criticality of uh several of these items based on the uh burx that may be the last chance I get to say that uh the buraks recommendations and their sentiments uh as well as um how well defined some of these were so prioritizing Public Safety and infrastructure um I think it's um it's beyond dispute for anybody who's been in it that we need a new police station and I have been on the fence about the training center but I have um come down on the side of the fence in uh favor of just building a new one and making sure it lasts us 50 years um but that is that is an investment now um I've also looked at things such as um land acquisition recognizing that land ain't going to get any cheaper so uh it would be better to do it now to the extent that we've identify the need than to wait um when it's going to be more expensive but then uh things such as um arterial Concrete Street construction and overlay no disputing that we need it but it's $130 million item which is a conspicuously round number and it um it suggests that the specific needs under that category have not been defined now I have no doubt and I did the math several years ago if you laid out all of Plano streets and end to end it would stretch from Los Angeles to Washington DC so I have no doubt we could spend that money and more but when we're looking at an historic size for our bond package $700 million which as last meeting we discussed was a bitter pill to swallow um and looking at the desire to get this down to I don't know just shooting from the hip what I feel is a semi more palatable number of 600 million uh there are several things that that the the Burak indicated were lower priority that I said let's look at deferring those to 2029 or seek other funding um uh but then for arterial uh Concrete Street construction and overlay I marked that as reduce or needs further discussion to see how much of that is critical truly in the next four years um again recognizing we could spend all of that and more in the next four years and um probably invest quite a bit in Orange traffic cones at the same time um and likewise with residential and collector Street reconstruction I wanted to see um what opportunities there were to combine that with residential street and Alley repair because in a recent um in a recent consent item there was uh alley reconstruction uh designated for a certain part of the city and I drove it before the meeting and there were certainly areas that absolutely needed repair or replacement in the alleys that I drove but not all of it so in the budget budgetary discussions we've had of late and the challenges we're facing um in operating as a built out city rather than a growing city and some of the challenges that go along with that um I want to see again with the residential construction while it might be more efficient overall to go in and redo everything in an area all at once I want to see um is that worth the immediate price tag given our other budgetary considerations and so I'd like to at least have more discussion um with the items that I said uh I would like to see move to 2029 or other funding uh there was about $50 million that I said I would like to defer and with the remainder out of um uh about $250 Million worth of a street repair I'd like to see if we could Whittle that down a meaningful 50 million without sacrificing the um uh the quality of the infrastructure we have in the city okay thank you Mr Casey on she's not okay we'll we'll come back to her Deputy Mayor protm gosh I'm really falling apart here there we go already been said I meth pointing out the fact that this is just a bond Authority that we're um agreeing on the amount that is going to be available for us to um to put out there but it's not um council member Williams was talking about the driving the Alleyways and and so before we do get to the point of making these large expenses count um city manager israelson correct me if this is is is correct to say that that anything over $100,000 is going to come to Council in advance yes so so I mean it it it seems like we could go through and line item everything but I know we're on a time schedule here to to be able to put this on the ballot and I do feel like it's important that we give the voters the opportunity to weigh in on what they feel is important um as it was already stated the public safety and infrastructure has always been of top priority to all of our citizens um that comes out to our top two proposition A and B items 585 million of the 700 million so a large chunk of of the the money we're talking about does go towards that um appreciate all the hard work the committee did and reviewing the items um there weren't a lot that were rated very low some of them such as screening walls I mean maybe it's not a priority safety wise but to me that's kind of the first impression you see when you drive into our city so that I I just really had a hard time with um being able to to Mark anything off the list I also do recognize that a lot of these projects uh will lend themselves to additional cost savings for example building um some of the new facilities will eliminate leases that we are currently paying for um at our Public Works U Maintenance building if there there aren't enough Bays there to do maintenance on vehicles so we're having to actually Outsource um some of the work that we can't do in inhouse so that costs us more so long term we'll have some cost savings on reduction in leases um reduced Outsourcing um and quite frankly just the less disruption to our services to not uh be trying to add on and put Band-Aids on what we've already got to to extend the life of the facilities um I think it will be a lot less disruptive in the case of the police headquarters and the Public Works building to be able to build new facilities um and then move into them and then we have have plans for them down the road the the really the only public feedback that we've received um that's missing from the um proposed items at this point in time is the Arts and um I haven't heard much feedback from any other council members in the discussions so far or from um others about about how we will address the Arts um I know this is very important to a lot of people um um I also know that if we are successful in in passing this Bond and building our new police headquarters and moving the existing one out of downtown we will um have some properties that will be available that we can look at and decide how they might be used or sold and give us some additional money um the um unfortunately the timing of this hasn't worked out really well with the the comprehensive plan for the Arts which is going to be presented to us in beginning of March I believe it is so uh we really can't be very um thoughtful and and and how we will execute long term but um one thing I did notice when we were viewing some of the facilities some of the needs such as at the police headquarters and the new training facility was for uh larger classrooms and one desperate need for our community and the Arts and and other groups is to have have spaces to meet to rehearse um just community space and I know our mission statement for Plano Police includes in partnership with the community so I would just like to see that we entertain the idea of of being incredibly thoughtful if the bonds pass and we do build these new facilities and looking for ways to partner with police and other other buildings so that um our other departments so that we can um get the best maximum use out of any any new facilities um I think that would be beneficial to everybody um so I you know I I'm of the opinion that we should let the the voters decide what they think um what they think we should should pass so that's where I'm at right now thank you mayor protim um thank you for um for all the previous comments and statements because that makes my job so much easier um so I I after looking at all these numbers I finally realized why I'm a a a criminal lawyer rather than an accountant because I frankly um cannot look at the numbers and tell you exactly where I am with you know a million dollars here a million dollars there all I can do is look at it from a standpoint of somebody who lives in Plano and somebody who raised her daughter and raise a family here in Plano and I look at the proposition as is proposed and currently there are a through F and looking at um the proposition in the in the um priority that is set out um I believe it is really a good idea for our residents to tell us tell the city of Plano um what is important what is their priority the way it's laid out right now I believe is is definitely my priority we definitely want to make sure our streets are improved we definitely want to make sure that we have strong police U presence we want to make sure that when we have um any type of uh weather U type um storms or any fires that you know our fire department is right there if we have medical emergency we want our medical 911 to be there so um those three are my top priorities as for um for the uh things that are related to to our our future which is our children um uh our future Plano residents who are going to make an impact I think the library as well as um the um what was the other one yeah the libraries and the parks those are all very important as well and I like the fact that it is lower on the priority because at this point um it is a big Bond and you know the the the residents are going to have to decide whether or not they they're willing to invest now or push it down the road four years later and then invest in an INF inflation inflation type amount later on so I have a little markings of where I believe my priority is but after looking at the proposition I believe it it is exactly the way that I would have um present the proposition in the priority that it is and I I would just leave it I like I like um uh Deputy Mayor protm I I would leave it for the residents to make that decision and I I I believe that the um the the board that put that put this proposal together they worked hard and and and you know it's not it's not it's not something that they like presenting to us as a recommendation for a bond referendum just because they too are residents and they don't want their taxes to go up but it is it's going to because Plano is getting old we need to fix it in order to be competitive you know so that's how I'm going to end it okay council member Prince I don't know if you heard but I just wanted you to kind of give me your synopsis on what you'd like to see out of the uh uh the dollar amount and any other um item listed in the props so yeah I missed some of the earlier conversation so I don't know how much of this has been disc gu but um on the police headquarters and um the uh replacement I have heard some concerns from residents just about this being used for that location um because it was initially set aside for Parkland so I would like there to be um some more discussion about that as well as um just the just the thought about is this land you know far enough East because I know some of the recommendations when I read through the um through the bond information was we needed more um we needed to serve the east side as well and so I just didn't know if this was the ideal location for that um same thing with the hall Park that speeds into that so I'd like to have more discussion about that I would like to remove the miscellaneous the 810,000 for miscellaneous under traffic improve ments and then also um I would like to see us instead of completely rebuild the police training center I like that amount to go down and see if we can refurbish instead of rebuild and then um I would like to see um um potentially us focus on for the residential and collector Street reconstruction that was lower on their priority list so I'd like to focus on repairs rather than then um oh I'm sorry I'm talking about the alleys I'd rather um see us on the Alley reconstruction focus on repairing alleys and not building new alleys so those were the main main things for on my list got it thank you councilman horm thank you hold on let me get you on there you go thank you um I spent a considerable amount of time looking over these projects looking over the the dollar amount uh please understand that the emails that just of most of the emails we get are concerned with our streets and infrastructure everybody says you're voted on fixing potholes and that's pretty much what we're faced with today but also plano's uh fire and rescue and our police are I would put them in the best in the nation so Public Safety is certainly high on our priorities uh I love of my life within the city of Planos is Parks and wreck because that's where I got to start serving and I think this our city of Excellence we have an outstanding Park Ser uh system as demonstrated by all the awards we're getting and then it hasn't been until recently that I've seen our population really I've SE witnessed personally a population visiting the uh library system that we have you go in there anytime in the evenings on the weekends it's packed there's activities going on all the time but an area that you probably never see or even think about is our maintenance facility who keeps our fire fire engines running who keeps the police station or cars running who retrofits the new cars the new tahos that we get it's our maintenance facility who maintains the lawnmowers who maintains every day 247 our trash trucks is the maintenance facility and we went I toured it and it is cramped I mean it is it's it's it it just has to be bigger if they're going to do repair on our new engines they have to take the engines outside if they're going to do that because there's not enough Bay space in it so when we look at all these projects I would like to say I'd like to have them all at the single time but I'm a taxpayer also and when I looked at the dollar amount there's sticker shock when we look at just the street component that's almost higher than all the bonds that we've had in the pre previous 15 16 years just on the street improvements and infrastructure so I felt like from a sticker shock perspective something had to give and in that I felt like that there were several approaches it's a matter of timing I look at Hall Park that was tied to where we're going to have placement of Fire Station 14 our new station which by the way we need because of the response time what we're going to improve on with regards to Colin Creek and Heritage Creek Side and also uh Central Plano but also our new police station which we desperately need and the PCS PSC uh component of it I think because of the amount of construction that's going on in with those two facilities if this P this bond gets passed that we can delay the the procurement of the 10 million for the improvements on Hall Park again just a matter of timing being a guy who used to work in the federal Arena one of the things that perked my attention was miscellaneous so I said okay I I'll give him some miscellaneous but I also reduced the cost of that I had another novel approach I would like to push the police training station to the next Bond or other funding source and the reason why this was a novel approach we have a new police station if that gets built what do we do with the old police station we can sell it I mean we have we as a council we can sell it if we sell that Prime real estate downtown it will pay for that police training facility and give you temperature control firing range I guarantee it but that's just a novel approach there we wouldn't have to ask for Bond money for that and then likewise as I go down there I thought we'd be able to push off using uh either Tiff funding or some other ways of methods the screening wall reconstruction alley reconstruction and uh I also had in there oh I pushed off the facility maintenance facility the land acquisition so I was able to take from my calculations here I was able to reduce uh the Bond as we were going to present I know it's not a big number but but it's still able to reduce it to about $600 million still more than what we were looking for but they're asking us to provide outstanding services and at the same same time trying to be fiscally responsible so those were the approaches I took when I looked at these numbers thank you councilman horn councilman rodelli thank you mayor so I'll start by briefly echoing a lot of what's already been said um you know we we always hear about public safety and Roads as being priorities th those are priorities for me as well I I think you know when you look at at you know I always say that uh you know for police and fire there's nothing I do in my job where if I don't do it right in five minutes somebody might die you know so that that's something that we have to get right um and Roads as council member horn and so many others have alluded to uh you know uh if uh if citizens didn't email about roads we might actually be able to save on technology Services a little bit you know some of our some of our servers might uh might free up but uh anyway so that that is a a constant priority so I mean we have to prioritize those I also agree with what I've heard about choices the great thing about a bond proposition is that the voters of the city of Plano get to vote on these Bond propositions uh directly they get to vote on this themselves but for them to do that I think we have to give great information and so that's why uh that while I'm going to go through some specific changes I'd like to see to the bond package itself I think the most important change is in our voter information materials I would like to see us give the 20y year uh cumulative impact because historically what we've done is we've given the year four one-year impact and I think people frequently misunderstand that and think that's the all-in cost of this bond package if we could do this all for 224 bucks you know for the average homeowner I'd say let's do this and quite a bit more you know I'm in for for 400 right you know but uh actually if we look at the overall cost if if we were to stay at 700 million staff has calculated that the payments for that would be uh you know including the interest on the debt would be 1 b85 million over 20 years and then if you just do some back of the envelope math about 50% of our tax base is residential so that means that more than 500 million is being paid by homeowners uh through their property taxes and then when you further break that down into the fact that we've got about 72,000 single family residences in the city if you do the math again this is you know back of the envelope math um but it's it's more than $7,000 for the a for the the mean average homeowner I don't know if that's the median over 20 years oh over 20 years I'm sorry thank you for that clarification mayor not not in any one year but I just want to make clear that you know if we approve this bond package that's that that's I want residents to understand that's what we're signing up for you know the average mean average homeowner paying a little over $7,000 uh over the course of 20 years it it might be even a little bit more than that but it's it's on that order of magnitude so that's um you know that is the uh but you got to remember all the seniors are frozen absolutely and and that's another thing I had asked about all the seniors are frozen and so so that that's a great Point mayor so so for th for those of us who have not yet attained the honor of the the tax freeze you know the actual impact could be quite a bit more you're right for for the seniors could that in right there but uh but anyway you know so that that's so you're right some taxpayers won't see that impact other taxpayers will see a greater impact as a result of that but that that's a great Point mayor and so um so that information is critical to provide those choices and also uh council member Prince and I think I've heard some others say this breaking out some of the big ticket items is really critical um for giving voters meaningful choices so I'd like to see us break this out a little bit more I I think you know every item that's over $50 million I think should be broken out as an individual item I think it's it's that significant we only have a few of those on this list so I don't think we would have too many um too many things on here um I will also uh you know address kind of where we are as a city we're we're reaching maturity right in terms of buildout we have very little developable land left and so our Focus really needs to be on maintaining the excellent infrastructure we have not as much on adding uh new things though certainly rebuilding existing things is a is a maintenance mindset um so taking all of that into account going through these specific items um one thing I I I looked at was uh um Hall Park as council member horn mentioned you know I asked about that have have citizens been asking for that and you know the the response from the staff was at this point in time citizens have not demanded that Hall Park be built uh and and then there was more information about it not being widely known that PDQ uh uh could be built there you know as part of this bond package but I I I would defer that given given that there are so many pressing issues if there's not really a citizen demand for that $10 million project I would I would defer Hall Park um I would further um go through and the parks maintenance West facility which I think does need to be rebuilt that's part of the parkway Services Center um rebuild but you know I I I looked into that it's uh it's got a $9 million price tag for a 6584 ft building um with related facilities on about three acres uh and uh the construction cost per square foot uh the way that we've got it now is $755 per square foot you know I um I checked with my wife who works in in commercial real estate and right now in Uptown Dallas including land costs class ablea office is being built for around $1,000 per square foot um high-end industrial is being built for anywhere up to $180 a square foot so I just I I think we've got to Value engineer that a little bit I I would probably uh you know just cut that number in half and say let's value engineer this and obviously we have to build it but the per square foot cost is just higher than I can support um you know so I would just say let's cut that in half and value engineer and and and I think we can still build a great facility um miscellaneous a couple council members have mentioned this but miscellaneous under traffic improvements I I just you know I I can't get behind sending miscellaneous to the voters the miscellaneous in my mind has to come out um what else uh on the libraries you know we have five libraries and the life of our bonds is 20 years that lends itself perfectly to remodeling one Library every four years and so I would be supportive of putting shim fig on the ballot but I would take hagard and Par off and I will tell you this is against my own self-interest I live walking distance from par Library I go there all the time I love par Library I hope the excellent employees at par Library who I see there uh will not be too offended but par library is only 24 years old uh every time I walk in there I think man this looks great you know and so um it just does not strike me as something that is an urgent priority for being remodeled at this time uh Haggard Library I used a lot growing up uh you know uh and it's it's by where my parents still live uh but it's it's 35 years years old and shim fin is 43 so I would defer Haggard to 2029 and Par to 2033 and get on a cycle where we look at one of our five libraries every four years because the life of our bonds is 20 years so over a 20e cycle we'll do all five libraries so anyway that that would be my uh suggestion um on that and then uh a few other things land Acquisitions uh for Parks you know the staff has put a lot of work into figuring out what the cost of getting the acreage that we're talking about at leavon farms is but I'd like to look at seeing if we can either negotiate with uh with the developer or or reduce that acreage because when I look at uh Bruce glasscock Park which is you know a park that's designed to build a very dense or to serve a very dense area of town um and uh uh in a very you know high cost High land cost area of town uh that being at 10 million and leavon Farms being at at 15 million it it I can definitely see that the land would cost that for that much land but I I just I feel like when we're faced with you know having to trim somewhere to get down to the 600 million number that some of my colleagues are talking about that I support as well uh that's an area where I think we've got to go down from 15 to 10 um and then also the 5 million for unidentified land purchases uh given the pressing needs right now I just I think we have to defer something that has not yet been identified and so I would defer that um and then shell Park um I would defer that as well I I will tell you same as par Library um my my oldest son my 10-year-old uh played PSA baseball at Shell Park and you know it's it's definitely quaint you know it kind of reminds me of my childhood in some ways which I actually really enjoyed but um but there there was nothing when I was there that I thought was not good enough for my own children and so I think that one can wait four years you know using that Ste standard of you know I would not say it's good enough for anybody else's kids unless it's good enough for my kids but it is good enough for my kids so anyway um you know so that that that's another place that I I would look to trim um you know and then the downtown RightWay infrastructure council member Smith mentioned this this is also something I brought up at the last meeting we have the turs number two specifically to invest in downtown uh that's the whole point of it and so to me to say we're going to take on Citywide debt instead of using the turs on that as a little bit of double dipping you know because that TS is supposed to support infrastructure in um in the tour Zone and so I would say let's dedicate the next two years of tur Revenue we can do that as a council I know that's not the normal process but we can do that let's dedicate that next two years at 3 million a year that comes up with that 6 million and then it's funded through the turs instead of being debt funded and incurring more interest you know more debt for the city um then also the uh facilities maintenance facility land acquisition that 3.93 million actually is not the money that we're using to acquire the land itself it's money that we're using to repay the land bank for uh for acquiring that land I agree that that repayment should happen at some point but if we take out debt and we're paying interest you know there's there's interest on this money uh and then we're doing that so that we can repay the land bank so that the money sits in the land bank until we have a use for it to me we're taking out a loan and paying interest just to move money from one account to another and you know I think if the land bank runs out of money that might be the time where where if we had to take out a loan we we might but I I just don't think we should be taking paying interest and taking out debt to move money from one account to another um and then um screening wall reconstruction as council member horn and others have mentioned I agree with council member Deputy Mayor PM Homer screening walls are important but uh they were ranked pretty low by the bond review citizen advisory committee they they were toward the very bottom and only one out of eight ranked that a high priority so I would say that's something where we can as others have have mentioned move that to our Capital maintenance fund and and try to fund the needed screening all work through there so I I would uh either reduce that or take that out and uh and then um finally on the 5 million for the unidentified Park improvements you know I think we need some of that because we do get Uniden unanticipated request we got a petition today you know about Razer Park um but I would reduce that to two million uh just because you know again things where um where we don't have identified needs yet I think are are things that by definition we don't know yet what we would spend the money on that has a better chance of being able to wait than uh you know than something where we have an identified pressing need and then finally on the uh on the police training center uh like council members Williams Prince and Horn I I was on the fence about that one as well just because it's you know it's it's 34 years old you know was wondering last meeting can we get uh more life out of it but I toured that facility uh it's it's you know uh in need of very significant work and so I don't think if we were to go the renovation route I don't think we could wait on the renovation and I have questions about whether it's the best use of money to spend 30 million to renovate rather than 50 million for a new build and so I I would I would Echo comments that I think council member Williams made uh I think horn and Prince made made comments to this effect I I I would put put this on there I and I I would say we need to build something really good that's going to last 50 years and I also think we need to pursue better cost recovery from other departments that are using that facility because that is a big number it's a big burden on our taxpayers other communities taxpayers should be paying for their Public Safety the way that we're paying for ours and so while it's important to partner with surrounding agencies I think we need better cost recovery there so uh with those changes and then finally what council member Williams said about streets streets are absolutely critical again I said public safety and Roads th those are the the the the 1 a and 1B that we hear about that that we absolutely have to do um but a lot of those roads emails are my goodness you're doing too much at the same time I'm really upset about all the closures and traffic and so I think if we were to scale back the pace just slightly you know without um you know without falling behind on maintenance but you know maybe maybe you know uh give our roads a just slightly more Breathing Room the community might actually appreciate that and I think we can still keep up with uh with road maintenance so if we do all of that I think we can get down toward that $600 million money well I may have regretted going this route but um let me be real brief because we're going to start our regular meeting in in just five minutes um I'm not sure I got a whole lot of of clarity there um but uh I I do uh agree with all of you I think we all agree on ABC and D are are very important uh with with some exceptions that everybody spoke of um I'm I'm I'm in fully support of the training center uh being built it's U it's critical it's important there are some some areas that that could be pushed on to 29 and I I think a lot of you mentioned those um I think what we have to do and we'll come back to that um after we start our meeting but um what what we have to really establish is what that number is going to be and and then the propositions uh and whether or not we want six of them or just four of them and and I think that's that's something that that we're going to have to work through um I do understand a lot of your logic on uh the hall Park and and the the downtown uh infrastructure those kind of things I I I certainly agree with but I don't want to and and as Deputy Mayor protim said and and mayor protim says I don't want to um micromanage the work that's been done by City staff and and and all all the work that theyve put into over over the last year uh based on our quite frankly it's arbitrary what we think that number should be and again I I know it's a big number uh we're a big city we're the ninth ninth largest city in in Texas and um we we have to take care of our city uh to be this city of Excellence that we always talk about and U companies and and and our residents move here because we take care of it uh we're the safest city uh in in Texas and and all all across the United States and we we do that because we make sure that the police are trained properly that they have a uh a good Department to to work out of good facilities good automobiles all the technology they need to be effective same with our our fire department and and then as you all know and we hear it every day and all of you uh let us know that we do prioritize our infrastructure and so many of our companies that have moved to Plano appreciate the fact that our infrastructure is a high priority to us and and it's obviously a big priority we we knocked out about 25 miles in the last four years and we hope to we hope to outdo that over the next four years years so you see how how expensive it is to not only repair the concrete underneath but the overlay just just makes it a smoother ride and it also lasts much longer and we have gotten so many good uh feedback so much good feedback in regard to what we're doing in our roads and we really do feel like that um they're going to last much longer longer than they have in the past uh our commitment is still there we're going to commit to doing that uh uh as we as we move along um but when we start up again here after we start our regular meeting uh I we need to kind of come to a consensus on a number a total number and then come to a consensus on the propositions because we got to do this tonight so with that being said I'll take a recess and we'll start the meeting right now I now declare that the Plano city council is reconvened in Open Session that all members are present council member Prince is on Zoom we'll begin tonight's regular meeting with the invocation led by Pastor Sam vinroy with Mount Olive Church of Plano in the Pledge of Allegiance and Texas pledge led by law enforcement Explorer post 911 would you please rise I guess that's just a happy New Year since this is my first time can I also pray for brother Fred Moses family he did pass father in the name of Jesus again we just thank you for bringing us into this brand new year thank you for this Council God thank you for the wisdom that you give them to lead this city I pray God that as you add you would add people wisdom that you might be able to conduct business in this city for all people now Lord we lift up Fred Moses's family we pray God that you would comfort them and all of those who lost loved ones God thank you thank you for an opportunity to be a part of this great city in what you're doing in Jesus name amen be seated you guys want to take a picture let's let's face this all right come on over here back up you got it all right thanks guys thank you for doing this appreciate it okay there we go my please don't support your we with them you may not be happy about what happens this is not a climb thank you guys appreciate it did you get one I did you already put it away thank you so much right app thank you thanks again appreciate it all right here we go so we have a couple of proclamations today and we uh we prepared a proclamation today uh is international Holocaust Remembrance Day and so uh I'd like to invite some friends up uh Rabbi Weinberg who's the board member with the American Jewish committee and Senior Rabbi with the congregation and shitor in Plano Tim waserman president-elect Jewish committee American Jewish committee with the Dallas Regional Office and Joel schwitzer Regional director of am American Jewish committee Dallas regional office would you all like to come on up don't do that we don't want that thank you thank you thank you thank you okay so whereas January 27th marchs the international Holocaust Remembrance Day designated by the United Nations General Assembly to commemorate the anniversary of the liberation of oshatz bur burkau the largest na concentration and extermination camp and whereas January 27th 2025 marks 80 years since the Liberation and whereas today and every day we remember in honor the memory of the Six Million Jews who were systematically murdered by Adolf Hitler and the Nazis along with millions of other innocent victims including people with disabilities political dissidents and other targeted for persecution whereas the city of Plano reaffirms terms its commitment to promoting tolerance understanding human dignity while standing against all forms of hatred and discrimination and whereas it is our duty to ensure that the lessons of the Holocaust remain a Cornerstone of our Collective memory and to honor the resilience and courage of those who survived and rebuilt their lives now therefore I John muns Mayor of the city of Plano Texas do hereby Proclaim January 27th 2025 an international Holocaust Remembrance Day in the city of Plano and call upon all residents to join in solemn remembrance of the victims educate themselves about the Holocaust and commit to building a more tolerant and compassionate Society all citizens are further urged to honor the lives that were lost and do their part to end anti-Semitism thank you congratulations thank you good to see good to see you so now we have a presentation for the avenon windh Haven HOA is being recertified as the best neighborhood plano's best neighborhood designation was developed to recognize neighborhoods that have had created a community that is beautiful engaged safe and thriving the best right Curtis all right so Curtis is already here our director of Neighborhood Services Stephanie peacock neighborhood engagement manager peara laara associate planner Amelia Ahmad Hi how are you president of aanon wih Haven HOA and Zeb Conan vice president of aanon wih Haven HOA welcome guys it's so good to see you you going to give a lawyer a mic oh okay no well mayor thank you very much I just want to I just want to tell you how much I appreciate uh aan wih Haven for doing all the work as the mayor talked about best is uh is beautiful engaged safe and thriving and what it does is is it takes a lot of work to prove that you are uh not only engaged in your own neighborhood but engaged in the in the city and it's it's your work and the work of all your neighbors that really make Plano a great place to live and play so thank you very much and congratulations all right thank you okay we're gonna uh go back to uh preliminary open meeting I will uh we'll come back to item number two but uh for the sake of time and and making sure our board members don't hate me for this I want to bring bring uh let's move on to item number three Dart presentation uh Paul wagan and Nathan Barbara are members of the dart board of directors for plan now good evening here to take questions from the council members okay go ahead so um I guess I have a whole bunch of questions but um but first of all I wanted to thank you I I understand the work that you guys are doing are very thankless because we're one of the Cities who are pretty much um uh as others think we're more privileged so it feels like we should contribute more to subsidize um the DART program and um so I understand that um the two of you are working very hard for the for the best interests of Plano and I want to recognize that so the second question I have is are there any updates is there any progress as to where we're at with regard to our um discussions with dart that's a a good question with with not an easy answer there has been work done by D to facilitate some of the concerns that that uh come from the city of Plano unfortunately that discussion has focused more on service than on expenditures which I know is not necessarily the answer that uh this Council or the City PA and I are are looking for therefore we think the current approach of working with Austin on the issue is that we need to continue that course yeah I would say councilwoman that Dart is finally engaged with the City uh it's taken way too long to get the meetings to occur there have been Frank conversations had by the D Representatives with the city and and Nathan and I but the answer is the board and I don't believe the senior staff really wants to address the key issues that mayor muns articulated in the letter he sent to our board chair um you know we just have a issue on the board where there's either lack of confidence in the rep report that eron young prepared and and circulated to all the cities um you know some of them just don't believe that Plano is subsidizing or supporting the operations of the agency so um you know even on the service front they're talking about projects that this city has been wishing the agency to do for multiple years these are projects we should have as a matter of course they are not to amarate the fact that we're subsidizing the agency to the degree we are and so even in the case of the service they haven't identified funding to provide it so as we head into a new budget year um the agency will either continue to status quo budget which is to fund everything we already are um perhaps they'll consider funding additional items for Dart in other cities dart's not the only city in this situation thank you council member Williams yes thank you both very much for representing the city on the uh dart board um three questions so you mentioned that um while Dart is engaged the discussions have revolved around service not actual funding um or at least not much on funding for the discussions that yall have been involved in and witnessed regarding service do you see what's been proposed for service adjust adjustments of any significant value to Plano or maybe just an incremental value or characterize it as you wish I don't know that I would use the word significant um like Mr wagan said they they are things that we have been asking for for a long time such as a circulator in the Legacy and Legacy West areas and a perhaps an Express service to DFW from from that same area so I think that they are certainly things that that will benefit the city I don't know that I would call those significant what I would call significant would be perhaps removing the if not all the majority of the bus services and going onto a go link zone for the entire city that would be significant however we have not um I haven't seen the temperature of the board and the meetings that I've attended uh to really want to take that on have there been sorry this is a follow-up question to that have there been any um appreciable discussions about a Citywide go link zone is it yes there have been there have been substan of discussions about that without without a doubt uh I just don't know that the temperature of the board with its makeup and with its Dallas being able you know having the the majority of the board I don't know that I see that coming to fruition in this current discussion okay thank you and while I of course want Dart to be engaged in meaningful discussions um I want that to engagement to be on a sustained basis what's your sense of dart's willingness to engage beyond the end of this legislative session well that's an excellent question council member I you know I would just be be conjecture on my part uh the fact that Plano and other cities are considering legislative action to try to remedy some of these issues I think is certainly and finally gotten the attention of the agency uh however we've been down this path before this is our third legislative session where we've had an issue important to to Plano in other cities and uh as we've seen when uh that action does not result in the passage of legislation that the agency sort of returns to its form in the interim so um you know where I'm standing this is an existential issue to our city we cannot sustain the level of uh subsidy that we provide Dart we just can't uh We've articulated that to our staff and to our board and honestly I just don't think there's widespread support to address that issue for Plano and for the handful of other cities that are in the same situation and you say widespread support do you mean amongst the dart board I'm sorry when you say there's not widespread support do you mean amongst the dart board well certainly the board but I don't honestly the staff doesn't seem to embrace it either and so um you know we're we really don't have a commitment from the staff or our board to address the issues that were identified in the letter from the mayor uh or by the ernston young report okay and thank you and my last question uh with respect to the silver line um I've heard a lot of people talking up and talking down the benefit of the silver line to the city now we're still a ways from actually having it of course um based on what you have seen from dart's plans and all of your discussions um what kind of real benefit would that present to the city when it's online in your estimation particularly with respect to the subsidy well so it'll be a new asset in our city it'll be two stops um I think there's a total of approximately 10 stops it's about an hour from Plano to the airport on the silver line honestly I don't know how much you you'll get with that kind of a time um you know certainly we've experienced significant uh development around Rail stations in plan own so there will be that opportunity uh so it'll increase the amount of um service obviously to the to the city but will it address the funding Gap in a significant way you know it'll address some of it but certainly not the majority of it thank you very much gentlemen council member uh Prince has her hand up go ahead thank you so even if the darkart staff and um the the leadership there disagrees with the erston young report what would you say their views are on the amount of money that we are spending to subsidize citizens from um our nor Northern cities traveling down to the South to use the system or the current lack of ridership we see and the amount we're investing for the few amount of people that are currently using the system I think with regard to the report there is a some hesitancy on the board to adapt it I don't think it matters if it's adopted or not the report is what it is it's done by erston Young with the most respected consulting firms in the country so whether the board adopts it or not is immaterial and you know the numbers are what the numbers are the the member cities that complain about it are the the Don the Don cities opposed to plan which is a donor city um and even if you took $20 million off the subsidy we're still paying 45 million more a year than than we're getting out of it based on the report that's with a $20 million reduction if the report is skewed in any fashion so I I don't think it matters if the reports adopted I think the numbers speak for themselves and I don't think it's a sustain able path for the city to keep going down this path that we've been going year after year after year is providing this subsidy I think one of the benefits of adopting the report uh and the intention always was is that this would be replicated on a frequent basis perhaps not every fiscal year but possibly every other year uh council member Williams you're well aware of the legislative effort was to be able to have the agency provide to every member City what what it spends in their City each year and so um I don't view this as a oneandone it certainly is a a snapshot in time U I think it needs to be done on a regular basis so all the cities understand uh what the benefit is of their membership council member Horn uh again thank you gentlemen for the hard work you put in on this dart board um I'm sure it's a thankless job job uh getting back to uh What uh councilwoman Prince was talking about the ey report as you alluded to Mr Barbaro the ey is a highly reputable firm um they have Reams or scores of staff to do quality control of their accounting practices a couple of weeks back we had Miss Lee here give a presentation and frankly I failed to ask her at that point she did not VA she would not validate the number that ey was presenting as what as far as value to us what we were losing it was around $66 million do you per year do you see uh someone within their staff coming up with another methodology to come up with a revised number to counter what ey came up with do you see something like that I mean because it seemed to me after she left here I was left with the impression that they were going to come up with some type of new accounting to come up with a value added to the city of Plano do you see any evidence of that coming from their direction or personally I I don't um see anything that would happen to change the report but that's not I previously said so okay let's change it let's drop 20 million off we're still paying 45 or 46 million a year into a system more than we're getting out of it so even if there was another way to look at it I don't think it's going to change it enough to where for Plano s it changes the problem it just may put a different number on it but it's still going to be a significant financial problem that was just a question I got because if she was questioning a way ey was coming up with her methodology as far as coming up with that number then I don't know how else you're going to come up with it you can only uh massage the number so much there's a reason it took three years to get the support because everybody knew what it was going to say and lo and behold it does say that so that's why there in my opinion there's been the hesitancy to do this um because it said what everybody thought it would say right thank you Council mayor RI Deli thank you mayor well uh first of all uh uh Paul and Nathan thank thank you so much for the hard work you do uh I know it's it's probably harder these days uh than uh than most roles and and thank you for uh you know for serving uh in such a thankless capacity we really appreciate what you're doing not just for the city of Plano but for the region and for public transit so thank you um I I appreciate you uh you know describing this Paul as an existential issue uh or maybe Nathan maybe you both said that uh but obviously we cannot can't that big of a word that was definitely Paul so well there there you go there you go but I think you both said it in as many words that we cannot sustain this subsidy uh and I I really thank you for representing not just plano's interest though thank you for that uh but representing what's good for Regional Transit what's good for cities partnering together through an agency like Dart and all you know having uh a you know a fair seat at the table uh it's really not an either or so thank you for that um with that uh when uh Miss Lee was here I did ask her about the ey report and uh as you talked about Nathan ernston young is is you know a big for accounting firm it's one of the most reputable consulting firms in the world um missley would not commit to the ernston young report she did mention uh not having had sufficient time to review it yet which which is fair for a certain amount of time um you know because obviously we all need time to dig into things uh at this juncture uh does Dart leadership accept the ey report and if not have any reasons been given for doubting its conclusions yeah they don't accept it they view it as a work product that was requested by the 13 cities or a significant number of the 13 cities um you the reality is we finally uh obtain the services of ernston young because plain uh excuse me Dart produced a number of reports that did not find um merit with certainly this city other cities and the Texas legislature I believe there was one report that essentially said we got more in service than we paid in and uh you know this is because they're using other calculations like enhancement to the tax base and things like that I think you know again I don't want to speak for council member Williams but this really started with we know what we pay you we want to know what you provide us in the way of service and uh this effort by Aron young was their uh the result of that request um certainly you could do other models and you can put put in other inputs and you might get a different answer but I think fundamentally we were looking to understand how much does the agency spend annually into the city well and thank you for for getting that number I do remember one report where it was just broken out based on population of member cities which of course does not tell how much is being spent in each member city um so thank you for for your perseverance in that regard um have y'all noticed any uh difference in how the the staff at Dart relates to representatives from the city of Dallas versus other member cities I wouldn't say that there's a preference toward city of Dallas I would say that they um they work with all of us um I would say that on a Time an occasion it seem that whatever the Dallas decision U or preference is that Tims to be the same opinion of of Staff but uh I wouldn't say that they there's a preference towards Dallas or that they work more closely with Dallas I might actually argue the opposite because I know sometimes they we have trouble getting meetings with people from the city of Dallas on Transportation issues but that's a whole another story a whole other work but no I don't feel that way but I do feel that at times um and it's been discussed that there's you know you rarely seen a a board vote where the Dallas majority controls the vote by one vote it's really not so much the formal votes that happen when we have our statutory meetings on the fourth Tuesday every month at six o'clock it's the control of the discussion in our committee meetings and it's in in our work sessions that um in my opinion could be a little problematic okay thank you for that answer and then uh finally just to talk about expenditures versus value because that was a point Miss Lee highlighted when when she came here um you know some some of the expenditures in Plano uh I I've observed to produce results like buses with low ridership and uh um certainly I see on on Spring Creek you know frequently buses with with no or a minimal number of riders on them uh you know driving east and west on on Spring Creek Parkway to give one example um does Dart have a solution for uh fixed drought bus service that is in a in a low ridership position yeah the agenc is committed to increase headways on buses in areas where it makes sense that's not our city uh we don't have the density or the ridership to really justify that so what we're asking for is really eliminate the local bus routes I guess there are some Regional or multi- city routes that either emanate or terminate here in Plano that might still need to be uh utilized or operated uh we're we're asking that we have more microtransit and um on demand service yes as Nathan mentioned uh you know in fact make the city an entire Zone yes Citywide go link and and and circulator routes and things like that correct the the push back we get is it's expensive and it may well be expensive but it's certainly less expensive than operating empty buses I think the prior budget year we had a budget for go link of $19 million we spent hundreds of millions of dollars on buses all over the city we pay we spend hundreds of millions of dollars in operating costs and capital costs on uh commuter rail that moves very few people so but you have board members that do not want to see additional goaling service because they view it as a Cadillac service and you know they don't get it U and so the reality is the agency needs to change what it's doing and it's not just for Plano it's really for all 13 cities there is not a single City in our membership that has honestly fully adequate Transit service for its people thank you and and my my last question regarding underutilized buses uh does Dart ever undertake environmental analysis of the impact of large underutilized buses versus microtransit and and whether it might be more environmentally friendly uh not to be you know having you know huge fuel consuming buses uh uh you know where utilization is low to be honest with you I don't know the answer to that question um from the environment veral analysis and I'm sure we could get that answer but it's it's not something that's that I recall coming up in any of the uh meetings that I've attended well thank you both for for working hard for what's good for the city of Plano and what's good for regional transit for the whole region I appreciate yall doing both of those things yes thank you mayor um uh because uh Mr wagan said he didn't want to speak for me I'll go ahead and speak for myself but that's correct going back to 2019 um we've sought simple fiscal transparency from Dart and we have gone through two legislative sessions now because we've come up empty every time um and we have Faithfully tried to work with dart work through our board uh for many years now and gotten pretty much nowhere and that's why we're looking at going through the legislature one more time this legislative session um but just to be clear um and so I can not put Paul in the position of speaking for me um yes this this is coming up in the legislature again because we've made no progress with all of our attempts to work with dart for fiscal transparency and just a model that makes sense for the Plano citizens who are putting in about as much into the dart system Vis their sales tax as they're paying in property tax so okay I think we have some speakers all right go ahead if I could just one one last point it's important Regional Transportation is incre increasingly important in north Texas it's important for Plano to be involved in that but the system that we are currently in is just not financially feasible and for the money that we're spending with this I feel like we could come up with our own system or part perhaps partner with some of our neighbors in col County um to have a system like Denton County has that makes much more financial sense and operates better for the citizens thanks gentlemen appreciate it thank you all right we do have nine speakers how much time Mr Mayor uh minute each minute each got it the first speaker is William Cravens Mr Graven did you sign up for the wrong that's okay that's okay I when I saw your name I thought boy you are involved in everything um okay then the next speaker is Daniel Rodriguez all right thank you Plano my name is d a Rodriguez I am um I'm not from Plano but I'm I also commute there from Fort Worth to get to my business and my work uh for for daily lease I usually usually take the TR to Plano to get to my work and Al from evening rush and morning rush I feel like I heard that um I've been hearing that the goalink if we change the goalink services to like all of Plano I felt like it would it would result but at the same time I feel like it wouldn't be insufficient although I feel like the bus routes that I seen around that I usually take a lot to either like Northwest Communications ride and also part more efficient we should keep the fixed bus routes that we have usually that we have and keep the D as it is thank you thank you the next speaker is shyam ganish RAM hello um can y'all hear me hold on just one moment hello hi I we'll need you to turn on your camera go ahead hello I am sham a resident of Frisco although my mom does commute to Plano and I go to Plano often to catch the red and orange lines and catch some buses Rail and buses are on a fixed schedule and are more dependable on like goaling so I believe that focusing on improving bus and drill service is more important than trying to improve building service in Plano thank you thank you the next speaker is Tyler Wright not here it's not here okay we'll move on to Nathaniel Adam on Zoom go ahead hello Plano city council my name is Nathaniel Adam and I'm a resident of Plano at 7128 Libby Road as a regular user of the bus routes that we have in play like the ones that are are only in Plano I think that the the the proposal to change it to a city right goinging Zone will be both significantly more expensive and also significantly worse service because it just that's this misunderstanding of how Transit works I also think that you should not be as concerned as you are about the funding inequality portrayed by the eii study because I think that since Dallas is such a Powerhouse of this region I think it does make sense to invest in their transit to make sure that they can still function well as a city um I also don't like how this the Precedence that this sets as it can C Cooperative Regional development in the future thank you thank you and Mr Wright is on Zoom so Mr Wright if you'll turn on your camera and microphone of course uh ahead thank you uh for the flexibility good evening uh mayor and Council I apologize I could couldn't make it in person after all um I did want to Echo some of the statements of some of my other friends and compatriots there with Dallas Area Transit Alliance I think the biggest concern with us is um golink services and other kind of uber like uh microtransit um does have serious issues once they start to scale when it comes to reliably servicing people um timely as well as uh the money and subsidy for passenger so if somebody goes from one end of plan up to the other because you eliminated the bus route that's going to be more expensive than just having the fixed rout service um I've ridden dcta gozone as well as seconds other services of course um the way times are variable I I strongly recommend try it yourself go take take gozone and then realize what you're going to saddle your people with um I do believe Plano deserves more I just ask that we've got to consider the context of the region as well as a commuter to Plano if you cut bus service find a new job thank you thank you the next speaker is Dariel Solis um then we have Ariel Herrera hello my name is ARA Herrera and I'm from Dallas but I go to UTD which is near Plano I think we should keep our fix bus route so that people from your UTD can commute to your school in a predictable way without having to worry about U go Lings and uh often long wait T which I often hear from many people I think the buses um offer a more predictable schedule in the trains to than goink and also the running the buses is cheaper and than go as many Studies have [Music] shown and thank you thank you Corey [Music] Riker good evening mayor and Council my name is Cory Riner I moved to downtown Plano 15 years ago after finishing College in Ohio arriving in Texas I was amazed to find in car Centric Dallas of all places a built out rail net light rail network complete with walkable Urban station areas I found employment accessible by rail we purchased our house to be within walking distance of the DART station and for about seven years I was a daily Redline commuter I worry that clawing back funds will imperil the substantial improvements that have been made uh to security and cleanliness on Dart um and I worry the about the precedent that this sets uh for the relationship between Dart and its member cities while there's been constant demands for transparency from Dart I feel that there's been a lack of transparency from City leadership here I've not heard any clear consistent vision for the goal goals objectives um from our leaders with Plano uh as a mature City uh and the population of Colin County um undergoing tremendous growth thoughtfully implemented Regional Transit is as important ever as ever thank you thank you and our last speaker is David yuban he was supposed to be on zoom and is not and so that will finish it out okay thank you this uh this presentation was for information only and so they're we're we're just here to hear from our board members the next item is uh oh I'm sorry Mark go ahead sorry mayor just want just wanted to add a few few quick elements in um you know I I see a lot of the email coming across to to the city council and I would strongly encourage folks to make sure that they are going and um and looking at the resources that are available to the community uh specifically Dart system maps and really looking at when we talk about fixed route service and we're talking about um some of those elements that that PO people are speaking passionately about um make sure you go look and um look at how many routes are really in Plano and then look at some other cities few quick statistics these are from darts reports from fiscal year 2022 the city of Garland had 718 bus stops and two light rail stops for $38 million Richardson has 355 bus stops four light rail service stops For $52 million Irving has 457 bus stops seven light ra rail stops for 94 million Plano has 289 bus stops two light rail services for 104 million part of the fiduciary duty that the council and the staff face here is making sure that for the money that we're getting as a partner that Plano has the same level quality of service and the same Equity as other cities we are an early user of go link it's actually been absorbed fairly well in Plano which is one of the reasons why um the suggestion of looking at go link for city-wide service so that people regardless of where they are in Plano can get to the hospital can get to the grocery store can get to their family um or can get from West Plano over to the Rail lines in um in East Plano so I would ask um that folks that are looking for more information on this please study the the service maps and study some of the data because I think it's really important that as we're talking about services in Plano and we are talking about people in Plano who need service that we are talking about Equity we are talking about fairness and we are talking about Plano getting the um the value that uh we've requested so with that mayor turn it back over all right thank you Mark uh next item is Silverline stations area plan good evening Council I'm Drew Broner comprehensive planning manager with the planning department and I'll be presenting an overview of the Silverline stations area plan which will be presented for your consideration on the regular agenda this is a Transit oriented small area plan which will establish the long-term vision for the areas around plano's two future Silverline stations at 12th Street and Shiloh road and topics I will cover include the project timeline overview this document is the culmination of many years of planning effort including two prior analysis reports the public input and Outreach process robust public input was critical to developing the plan's goals and vision alignment with the comprehensive plan policies and actions and then long-term use of the plan as a policy guide for future zoning and development decisions and project implementation this is a visual timeline of our planning efforts staff began work back in 2020 developing two analysis reports to establish an understanding of the conditions and Trends in these areas first a market assessment this looked at regional market trends and real estate strengths and challenges of each station area then an existing conditions report report this looked at the planning history in these areas to best practices built environment inventory and a zoning analysis these reports were presented to the pnz commission which then directed staff to begin the planning process for these stations the planning process began in Spring 2023 starting with station area gold development then specific strategies and recommendations were identified and refined through multiple rounds of public input a full plan document was developed throughout last year and was unanimous unanimously approved by the pnz Commission in January the plan goals and vision were driven by public input that included the formation of an Advisory Group this included residents property owners and other area stakeholders as well as representatives from the pnz and Heritage commissions this group was critical in providing in-depth knowledge of the issues and opportunities of these two areas additionally broad Community input was sought via imperson and online Outreach this slide provides an overview of the public engagement process public input events are colorcoded by type of Engagement the plan started with a series of Advisory Group events in green this included a virtual visioning Workshop to discuss plan goals and opportunities and a three-day design shet to develop the initial plan Visions opportunities for broader Community input followed first with a public openhouse number one at the conclusion of that 3-day design charette a community survey which received over 250 responses and a virtual openhouse to engage Eng with people online recommendations were refined through another round of in-person events with The Advisory Group and a public open housee number two and the draft plan was presented to pnz as a series of discussion items concluding with the approval Hearing in January of this year a public engagement summary report is included as a plan appendix this includes event details online Outreach methods which which included a project website and social media posts and key takeaways from the input next this is an overview of the comprehensive plan policies that guide station area planning the transit oriented development policy encourages proactive mixed use planning near planned Rail stations next the land use policy action six gives guidance for the development of small area plans for focused development and Redevelopment efforts Tod action 2 provides direction to prepare plans within half mile of stations with consideration of Market potential and TOD action 3 encourages the city to proactively work work with property owners to align zoning with adopted area plans and this is identified as a near-term implementation step in the plan the comprehensive plan gives direction that small area plans are to be used as an extension of the comprehensive plan upon approval the station areas plan will be used when reviewing future zoning requests based on the greater specificity of the land use vision and development type recommendations in summary the plan is intended to be used for Z zoning change and development request evaluations to consider necessary future Services programs and studies for these areas and guidance for analyzing and implementing infrastructure projects the main components of the plan include plan goals grouped into three themes land use transportation and open space and character these set the overarching direction for the future of the station areas these goals are represented through vision maps for each of these themes the land use Vision Maps identify the locations of development types each with a recommended set of character defining elements such as building Heights block pattern and parking orientation transportation and open space Vision Maps identify improvements and project opportunities to support the land land use Visions a recommendations and strategies chapter is included that provides detail on plan priorities and how to implement the identified plan Vision elements and finally an implementation actions chapter provides an actionable checklist to track plan progress next I'll walk through examples of the land use and development guidance provided by the station areas plan this slide shows the future land use map in relation to the Rail stations this map gives guidance for appropriate uses and development characteristics across large areas of the city in comparison this is the land use Vision map for the 12th Street Station area this map provides development guidance tailored to the opportunities and goals gos of the station areas as determined through public input this offers more precise direction for the appropriate locations of uses in building form for example this slide indicates the proposed building Heights in the 12th Street uh stationary Vision map the future land use map on the left gives broad guidance that buildings in the neighborhoods category should be one to two stories and the downtown quarters category up to five stories whereas the proposed land use Vision map for 12th Street provides more specific guidance for appropriate maximum Heights this guidance helps to maintain the character of residential neighborhoods while also focusing density near the station this slide shows the resulting mix of uses guidance compared to the current future land use map the 12th Street Station land use Vision provides more targeted direction for where mixed use development would be appropriate resulting in 39% of the station area recommended for mixed use development next the Shiloh Road station area land use Vision map the recommended mix of uses and Heights is largely unchanged the main change is the addition of the mixed use activity Hub development type which supports a moderate amount of mixed juuse development nearest the station and the result of this addition is 5% of the station are would support mixed use development with the area south of 14th remaining primarily non-residential and primarily residential to the north the the plan provides guidance for protecting residential character of neighborhoods near the station areas with residential adjacency transitions for 12th Street Station this includes a three-story height maximum adjacent to the Douglas community and the addition of the evolving industry development type which serves as a land use intensity transition and these transition areas are identified here on the map with the three-story height transition area for the Douglas Community with the hatched blue area and the evolving industry in the red area which provides a use transition between residential areas nearest the station and the heavier uses in the light industrial district similarly for the Shiloh Road area a residential height transition is recommended to preserve existing single family neighborhood character with a two story height maximum near existing single family and up to four stories closer to the station and then finally the plan includes a density bonus recommendation for the 12th Street Station area current comprehensive plan guidance recommends that greater density should be focused nearest The Rail stations this bonus would provide an opportunity for up to three additional stories if development provides Community benefits and examples identified in the plan include uh including public open space public parking or a percentage of affordable housing and in the case a development does not qualify for the bonus then the five-story maximum would apply development of a zoning tool to implement this bonus is recommended as a near-term action and the transit center makes use development type in blue in the 12 Street area is the only area where the bonus would be supported and this concludes the plan overview and I'm available for any questions appreciate it any questions for staff terrific thanks for your work on the yes this is uh really well done moving on to consent and regular agendas any item uh council member would like to remove I think there is one requested to remove which one a citizen requested K and Mr Williams did you request D K and B D like okay I K okay I no I'm suspect yes okay um items for discussion or future agenda items all right let's let's go back to item number two on the bond referendum um like I said when we finished I think uh I think Deputy Mayor protim mayor protim and I are satisfied with the number but we'd certainly be glad to compromise on on that number I know council member Smith had some items that uh would would would definitely I think would work is as far as uh I think you you were talking about uh downtown the perimeter walls sidewalks and what what else brick sorry right right away what anything else here let me turn you on I'm sorry U there you go the uh the main three items that uh that I was let me start I guess generally by saying I think most of us a lot of us I heard were kind of hitting around that 600 million number uh and I think after a nice discussion I think Mark and everybody look at we probably be able to get somewhere close closer to that number than the 700 million number I did find it interesting I think you know council member Rick Deli I love the way he he has such an analytical mind and council member Williams also when it comes to you know the math mathematical analysis but I found it interesting that that if you break it out to the 20-year figure that on our for our residential tax ta payers is about seven about $7,000 you know dollars over that time FR so essentially what what we're talking about if you really want to break it down into something that's understandable you're basically talking about a a Netflix premium subscription that you're paying for you know every month and for instead of doing that you're getting the benefits of the public safety the infrastructure and everything else so I I I found that you know that very helpful it really makes me a little bit more comfortable with you know the type of numbers that uh that we're talking about uh but but I would say again Public Safety I'm I'm good with everything that's in public safety the uh the streets everything except for the the three items that they mentioned there and then I would uh I know we had the abcdf whatever and we broke out uh Public Works and the public maintenance facilities in two separate ones I would suggest uh blending those into one item uh and still providing those and then everything else uh could be covered on a uh pay you go basis either Capital maintenance uh Tiff funds or you know uh you know General funds so somewhere along that one to gets down to it okay I I think i' I've got it would it be better if we just looked at uh and voted on Street improvements as proposition a and whether or not everybody is satisfied with that would that work better Anthony I know I I know where you stand but but we we we've gota we've got to let um somehow we have we have to get a majority of the people to to agree on all of these items and we can certainly uh uh consolidate uh those that that we feel like need need to be may I think on stre uh if I'm not mistaken in proposition a is where the downtown RightWay was that I think I've heard a majority of council talk about and also uh the screening walls that council member Smith was was talking about that I think a several council members would everybody be okay if we took downtown screening walls sidewalks and miscellaneous is miscellaneous in yeah I think that's in street if we took those out of Street improvements definitely okay is that okay yes thank you gosh this is great okay proposition B Public Safety facilities um let me see where was I uh we I think we have is everybody okay with Public Safety facilities M okay in including the training facility yes yes I think I think there's votes for training excuse me go ahead hold on on let me get you let me get you up again I I I'm all for the new training facility don't get me wrong with that but I think once we have the new headquarters built we'll have a surplus building in Downtown that'll be worth a significant amount of money correct and I'm thinking because of the timing of what we're looking at here that with the transition and I don't know what the economics are going to look like in four years I mean if I had that crystal ball I'd be wouldn't be in Plano but the point being is is I think we may have an Avenue to pay for that building without having to go through a bond and that's that's what I was trying to to again push that forward yeah to the or look at another Avenue on how to pay for that well that and that was the only reason I was hoping to do that no I appreciate the fact that but the the the issue is for something like like the the police headquarters it it we'd be thrilled if it got built by the end of this bond issue oh it's going to be a put that one as a separate line item if we're going to have that yeah I I I I would support anything over 50 million being a separate line item well I I I think that's you're good you you're really trying to educate the voter but that is really going to confuse you put that's going to be 15 line items and I I think I guess yeah sorry I mean I'm I'm okay if you want to separate that but I'm saying the less propositions we have and I'm again I'm not trying to consolidate I'm just saying the less we have I think the the voters going to understand what they're voting for so here's my thing I I just feel like the more all of us are on the same page and supportive of all of this and that we can get behind that we we all uh feel like the things on this we feel strongly about going to the more that there's going to be support for the community to go out and get behind these so I feel like if um you know the the thought that we're going to reduce this sum and come with a more reasonable number I think is a plus but I still do I would rather us um get some of these passed then to come and say oh people thought Public Safety facilities was way too high at 243 million so it didn't pass at all that's what I'm concerned about okay but so you you'd like the police headquarters by itself if we could I just don't understand having City maintenance facility I know the bond Council had things I don't understand having a line item for 3.9 million and then having ones like 50 million lumped in together I I just I I I'm concerned that we risk um not getting some of these past with these massive numbers for people who just see a massive number and are like nope when they haven't been educated okay all right hold on uh council member Williams yeah I agree with what uh councilwoman Prince just said and I think I'll speak for myself at least but I think where councilman ricelli was coming from was any individual project in excess of 50 million meaning the police station or the training center not a category like uh residential street and Alley repair separate from arterial concrete like i' I'd rather have just one streets and alleys item I'd like to whittle it down to 300 million but still one streets and Alley's item but for any individual project that is over 50 million um like a police headquarters training center and then all the fire station work I'm good with the total amounts and I'm good going with the bonds for them now but I I agree with breaking those large items out okay all right was also that that was better stated than I stated it but I would also say the uh Parkway services and Fleet phase one is a $54 million kind of Standalone item that's a similar scope of of project so I would add that into that list you know just giving the residents choices for claric for clarification making sure so combined items like arterial Concrete Street reconstruction overlay do not count these these are individual facility items so it's Parkway Service Police Headquarters and it is the fleet Fleet Maintenance and then police training those four stand out as individual items that you would like to see as individual propositions correct I it that's right I thought the parkway service and Fleet phase when we had it uh hitting 54 together um because as I understand it that's all on that same traed land right it's correct but you can't move the fleet without the the park side of things because you have no place to put it correct so I would I would say that's one project yeah that's I was Vie that as one project so we have four of those that are 50 million and above correct okay I think so making sure I'm tracking along here just yeah okay thank you okay thank you Maria I'm sorry did you have something well sorry Rick I'll get you I guess instead of going line item Mr may I I I think well now that I heard everybody's starting to talk I I'm I'm getting it it's but what I was going to suggest is that instead of going line by line with what we are agreeing to to reduce or or move over to the future is maybe just agree to like you know have the staff go back and reduce it to the amount that we're comfortable in in in presenting to the bond referendum uh that that's all I would I I appreciate you saying that but I'm I'm not sure I can get there just but I think we're we're making some Headway I think we're really we've knocked off the majority of the the bonds right now so all all that's uh Rick I'm sorry I was going to let you you had something to say oh that's okay I think I think we passed by I just to say council member horn I I really appreciate the statement we made where he's coming from but the one thing I did want to point out again is that I would rather have something and not need it then need it and not have it so remember all we're asking for is the authority to issue those bonds so the fact that we have that Authority if the police station sells and we get a great thing that we could always still do that and never issue the 51 million that that's all say I just think it's very important that we we do that project or we have the capability to do that project however that that comes about and and not not have the capability to do it okay appreciate that so uh oh Rick you got something sorry clarification I I understand the need and I appreciate the need I was just trying to help us get to a point where we didn't have that sticker shock to the voter who's not going to come to our meetings you know what I mean who's not going to take the energy and time to see the the work that our staff has done that didn't take the time to see the needs analysis I'm just trying to help us get to that area there okay and so really that's where my position was all right so we we're at uh uh parks and wreck Proposition C I will tell you one thing Mr rodelli sir I played Pony Baseball on shell Park so yes it has been there a long time so uh I I can U I can understand your logic but I can also tell you it's um it's very old so um it it could definitely use an upgrade but again uh these are these are areas that you know I'm willing to to to hear if if if the there's a consensus on Council to do anything or go with the the 60 million Rick again uh Mr Mayor again when I I made my original statement particularly Hall Park if we're fortunate and the voters vote for both the headquarters and the police station we're looking at a four-year timeline that that whole area is just going to be torn up from an infrastructure perspective okay and I would like to push the hall Park finish out if you will to the next Bond because that's when we'll probably need and start looking at the work okay but that was my only reasoning for that I could I support I support that and I would also support uh councilman Riad deli's of removing removing or reducing the land Acquisitions under parks to help us get to the 600 number councilman ricelli can you reiterate your uh land acquisition numbers that you proposed thank you yes I was going to decrease that uh if it's okay with the council from 20 to 10 uh because what we've got currently is 15 for leavon Farms you know we absolutely need a park there uh because of what's going on in the Oak Point area but you know I thought the precedent of of uh I think I saw 10 million uh in Authority for the Bruce glasscock part I I think I think that's already a very high-end Park wind Haven Meadows was 10 million for for uh you know uh or I guess that was the finish out but anyway um you know so I I think we can do a great Park negotiate with the developer for 10 million and then there's 5 million you know in there for uh kind of unidentified possible future land and you know I I would take that out at this time just because we are trying to get down closer to the 600 million and I think something where we don't even have an identified use for it yet where we don't know how we would spend it is something that you you know we might be able to look at look at that and maybe look at it again in 2029 no it's I think that's down to 50 at the 50 because I think take out a hall park right and then and then 10 out of the correct yes so you're yes so it' be got it it'd be 40 yeah y okay Fleet operations is everybody okay with that I'm sorry excuse me all right the park or the well I I was parking rack at 40 and then Fleet operations we I mean Shelby go ahead oh everything councilman Rick odelli just said well and and Rick you you were talking about you visited that and that it's critical and I've I've seen it several times and most of our fire trucks don't fit into the Baye and they're too big yeah so that that's a that's a real critical uh public facility but um I think somebody was talking about the facil maintenance uh land acquisition was that you answer that that that was me I guess I was I was several of these things but so here's the thing about the this is uh proposition F but the facilities maintenance uh acquisition is uh uh basically we're we're moving money from one account to another we're buying the uh we're already buying this land with with the land bank money and then because we would be using it for a maintenance facility we would be reimbursing the land bank with these bond funds the point I was making is that we have money in the land bank and if we uh if we sell bonds and pay interest we incur debt uh just to repay the land bank then we've got money sitting in the land bank that we don't have a use for yet but all the while we're paying interest because we we wanted to move it from one account to another we wanted we wanted essentially to use a bond to repay the land bank so we would be paying interest on money that's sitting there in the land bank would be the net effect of that and I think rather than pay interest on money that we don't have an identified use for yet you know this kind of goes back to the five million of parks land that didn't have an identified use yet um I think it would be it would be better to just you know repay the land bank at some future date when we have an identified use for those funds in the land bank rather than paying interest before we do and councilman rodelli and I did have a discussion um and and what he says is accurate I I just want to reiterate to council that the part of your purpose of the land bank was to have um funds available for opportunities um we are close to the top of the use of the land bank so um your opportunity availability for those funds will be impacted by that if you were not repaying it um so those are are elements of that and again if once it's exhausted we won't have the opportunity to to do that so it's just again it's it's however Council prefers to to move forward but I do think that if you've committed those funds and we exhaust those funds then again um should an opportunity come up uh those those funds will not be available and I think part of the purpose for the land bank was discussion of replenishing it through the repayment of of that land so are we talking about are we still talking about C we're talking about D actually I think this is I think this might be F uh on the oh sorry that both yeah it's both quite frankly Okay C and D no d and f d and f and if we take the 3.9 out um then that's all that f is that's right and then we would also have one fewer proposition so as we split a couple other things out as we mentioned we would not be having you know so many Bond propositions on there I know I'm okay with taking that one out where we at no where where how do you stand on that on F Shelby I'm good on F we're taking it out yeah you okay RI the public works if it I I'll leave that to Marks folks if it's not absolutely necessary at this moment and we can cover it another way I'm good with taking it out but as everybody was talking about I mean being able to maintain our equipment and everything that we have in this city that provides the services is is critical so as long as we're not affecting that I'm okay with it um as I understand from city manager Israel and we we are doing that we're already doing it with uh acquiring that land with land bank funds it's just a question of whether we would issue debt to pay back the land bank and my concern was while I do support replenishing the land bank and having that money available for an opportunity I don't know that we want to be paying interest on the money that's sitting in the land bank and actually take out debt to do that but as I understand it we're going to do this facility we need it for sure Maria um so I I I I I guess I don't understand I mean why can't we let the voters do I mean this is a separate item is at the last of the proposition is $3.9 million versus all the other ones and we're talking about um we're talking about critical items that you know I think the V the resident should make that decision I mean it's already separated so but the problem with the way this is created it makes it sound like that 3.9 million is going to be for the city maintenance facility not for the the purchase of the land right so like to to the point that council member horn has made if you're just going to the voter and the voter is just seeing this on the ballot and they're not actually doing all their research beforehand this doesn't this looks like proposition f is to build the facility and what if I'm understanding our conversation right that is not what this 3.9 milli ion is four then it's more on the description in the proposition language rather than taking it off because we don't need it I mean this is I mean everything that's been proposed was went through the Advisory Board of our you know the citizens who you know who put this together and make the recommendation I just don't think we could just go in and and if and that on it I don't mind if we want to try to get to a certain dollar amount for example million look at what they did it was listed as facilities maintenance facility land acquisition 3.9 and it was one of the lowest ratees like I said if we want to try to get to a certain number on fine and you know having you know go through line item for the staff to get to to whatever but I mean one area of proposition F I mean this is this is all by itself I mean I think the resident should have the um the the choice of deciding whether or not they want it or not you know instead of our own personal opinion whether or not we should put it on there I get it I just think it looks misleading this way to people well I I just don't like okay Shelby uh yes I agree with uh council member Prince the way it appears on the bond item it says a facility residents will be led to believe that it's a facility that's being constructed leading them to think that there's a need for such a facility um and yes while an individual Bond item is up to the voters to vote on the the bond referendum citizens advisory committee Burk act thank you um did not present us a Whitted down list they took the entire list that was presented by staff and simply prioritized it so I understand that the 600 million we're trying to get to collectively is a uh somewhat arbitrary number but so was the 700 million that was given to the committee um that down from I think 1.4 billion six 1.6 billion um which may have been an arbitrary number by itself um so uh that's why I'm in favor of taking this off is because it is for the land and because we're trying to um just basically Shuffle our assets around but I'm trying to get down get the total amount of interest that we're paying on our debt down as it is um so quickly mayor and councel um and kind of working through that one of the things I am looking at is is to what y'all are talking about as far as facilities and and what we might be able to group together we can go back and talk with Bob dransfeld about trying to put some of these together with the understanding that those over $50 million would be their own Standalone facility so we can look to see if some of these smaller ones but if you'd rather not have these embedded in there just because the purpose of it doesn't match with what you're trying to do and it needs to be pushed out for future years or you know look for other opportunities I mean candidly Council there's there's not funds just sitting around that we're looking to do this we we would have already done it had had we had that um but if we want to push it out for four years again um that's the council prerogative to be able to do that and I I know that we're just trying to balance to a number that we think the community can can accept um but I think we can go back to our bond attorney and talk to him about some of these groups and see if we can't um collapse some of these together and then look at those other individual items so if you're concerned about that I think we can work on that all right so finally is the library facilities I think outside of that we we we kind of agreed on everything um are we okay with that I I I think Anthony Anthony you had um uh I think uh par was was one that you wanted to yes mayor thank you so you know I I hope uh hope the staff will not be mad at me next time I go in there as I frequently do I use par Library very frequently and I love it that's actually why I think it could wait because I I was candidly surprised to see it on here because I think it's in such excellent shape and so I I mean it's it's consistently about my needs my kids needs you know my wife's needs you know we so anyway and and I I would say you know while certainly it has more needs than par we could look at taking Haggard off as well because again we've got 20 uh these are 20 year bonds we've got five libraries so if you divide 20 by five that's four so if every four years during every Bond cycle we tackle one library then you know over every 20-year Bond cycle will refresh every library and so to me I would say let's do the oldest shimlin this time and then uh Haggard next time par in 2033 and so on and so forth so that you know every Bond cycle we we refresh one of our five libraries shall we uh I really like councilman relli's suggestion but um one of my questions as well regarding the bond uh uh item for libraries relates to the consent item that I asked to be pulled for individual consideration tonight which was so this Bond item for the shim fenig renovation is almost $2 million but on the consent agenda tonight we had almost $400,000 for shelf replacement at shim fenig and I'm wondering well I I went to shim fenig on the way here to look at the shelves they're a bit scratched up but otherwise look serviceable but I'm wondering whether that sort of thing is contemplated in the shim fenig model and if we're going to be paying 400,000 now to replace the shelves that we're going to replace in a couple of years anyway Libby would you mind thank you sorry you had to come down early living am I allowed to touch this okay yeah just don't scream short good evening question yes so um on the consent agenda tonight was an item for almost $400,000 for uh shelf replacement at shim fenig library but then we're talking about the bond item to remodel shimlin maybe uh what was the word youed yeah Remodel shimlin and the question is in the remodel almost $2 million was replacement of the shelving contemplated in that it's it was not part of that so if I can speak to just the shelving piece first so every budget year we um share what our projected couple of years what are we looking at in needs for our buildings or resources and shimlin it came up a few years ago in our bond discussions and in our budget discussions but there's no funding uh budget made us aware that there was some potential funding but we didn't have capacity and Facilities to do the work so we've waited a couple years and now the two have kind of we have the funding and the capacity that's why we're asking for the shelving right now I see for the bond for shimol fining it's more the the paint and the um the paint the carpet and some furniture type of things it's not Shing okay um thank you for that that helps um and it actually emphasizes the notion of doing a holistic remodel once every four years for each of the libraries so that we're not kind of patchworking the work that ultimately needs to be done at all of them um a little shelving here a little paint there but uh doing a a full proper remodel periodically sure okay thank you Libby okay my pleasure any other questions no thank you okay so if um can I provide an update real quick yeah I've been trying to track this Council to make sure that I'm getting it right and I hope to read it off to you to make sure that again things are are being explicit and I hate to do that but it's we only get one more shot at this now we got to print it out and bring it back to you for the community to see so let me let me see if I can get this correct and I'm just going down the list so that that yall see and talking about adjustments so the first adjustment is Hall Park in Hall Park we're going to push out to 2029 so that's completely coming off the list next is miscellaneous and we are completely taking that out from the um traffic improvements the next item is the Haggard Library remodel it is coming off and going to a future year if I'm going too fast y'all tell me to slow down the next thing coming down is land acquisitions in land Acquisitions we are shifting to $10 million in total regardless of whether it's leavon or anything else it's just $10 million so it basically took that 20 and cut it in half and so we're just going to say it's $10 million for land Acquisitions so far I'm getting nods from a few folks so so far we're doing okay all right just making sure all right and then the next thing coming down is going to be that par Library remodel we're bumping out again since we're doing one Library this year downtown rideway infrastructure is going we're going to look towards Tiff funds to see if that is possible to program that sidewalks we are going to look to Capital maintenance to see what we can Fund in in for sidewalks facilities maintenance uh facility land acquisition we are going to bump out for those four years screen wall we're going to look at Capital maintenance alley reconstruction we're looking at Capital maintenance and get What's the total I just want to make sure I'm looking around everybody did I get everything right anybody missing anything M material uh councilman horn yeah go ahead hold on I got you br go thanks I have a question if we're going to be doing a library every four years now requesting bonding funds to remodel that then when I look at the library I mean what we're talking about now what uh Libby was presenting was basically paint and carpet and tile and furniture and stuff if what we're looking at to remodel an entire Library do we need to look at more from the mechanical systems the plumbing the engineering on that sort of thing because I'm I'm looking here that we had you know two million here a million here another million and a half here should we look at that if we're going to keep that library and that's only what we're going to do in four years should we consider bumping that value up I know we're trying to reduce the number but you know what what are we going to look what's that going to look like in another four years that's what I'm getting at on that title so go ahead Council hold on let me get you all right go we're you're Mercy mayor um that's one of the things I was going to say since we've got this consent item for shelving for shim fenig um maybe bump up the shim fenig uh Bond budget here to Encompass a more proper remodel I think that's what you were referencing councilman horn right I'm just looking at from from a total from a plumbing and mechanical systems to to everything Electronics to highspeed internet everything that's associated this is just beyond what we're looking at with regards just to paint and carpet so councilman let me if you don't mind no inter real quicking um so councilman I I hear where you're coming from and I think that that's part of what we look to do and this becomes a little bit of a blend between our our bond dollars and our Capital maintenance dollars and replacing some of those mechanical that we have on a scheduled program so we have roofs on a a tenure cycle we have some of these elements on on um you know replacement cycles that we work through to to your point um so as far as what's included in this particular aspect Paul do you have a a I know that there you have the list but as far as the the um maybe more enhanced or more comprehensive uh update is there anything that you can add to add color to that sure good evening poza facilities division manager I can tell you on what's on shim Finning I tell you what's in all three libraries what we have included for all three libraries we have three large study pods and three small pods that's the furniture part of this that you see in support of that we have the electrical connections to all those study pods all of the libraries have restrooms that let's just say need a lot of help they all need remodeling they're all very old and so for shimi shimlin we have four large Li um restrooms and three small restrooms that we're going to get a complete basically Gutt it down to studs refresh the plumbing everything um paint throughout shimlin and all new carpet and to speak to Mr Williams we constantly will go behind underneath the shelving depending on the age of it we have technology we can lift the shelving up and replace the carpet so depending they don't necessarily have to match the timing of each other so we do that quite often um did you guys want to hear what's also in Haggard and and in um par as well I think the focus is on a single library today Paul okay all right any other questions Anthony did you oh thank you I I was just going to say you know if if there's more work that was anticipated on shim fig in a near future bond package I would be supportive of adding that into this bond package you know obviously not making the number bigger than it previously was with three libraries in there but with the idea of of kind of you know a comprehensive refresh but you know focusing on long-term items like the ones you were talking about because as you talked about city manager Israel and we have the capital maintenance fund all already for routine maintenance and bond funds are typically for things that last 20 years or longer that are going to you know kind of be you know a real sort of capital Improvement to uh to the library so but I mean if there are other things that were anticipated for 29 or 33 for shim shimle fin let's do it all now it's roof is less than five years old so we don't need there so I think we're okay perfect all right so is is everybody okay with with what Mark just ran through okay are you okay brick sorry go ahead we're talking 52 million bucks that we've reduced so yeah that's exactly right all right it's close so do you all want to know the total yeah Rick already told me what did he say it is yes so it's it's 647 m911 th000 okay so all right not quite um but we will work with our bond uh Council to make sure that we we work on breaking those out see what we can consolidate we'll bring back the final language the final uh project list but Council um thank you this is this is huge to be able to take to the community um it is very meaningful I know this is not easy um but appreciate all your work towards this thank you thank you all thank you staff for for all the work you put into this um let's move to consent agenda oh I'm so sorry Maria yeah okay my apologies I I meant to do this at Proclamation time Maria yes I think you have something to say yesin yay every year I do this and I figured this is a really good insert for something happy yeah um so Chinese New Year or Lunar New Year is going to be this Wednesday it's January 29th it will be the new year for the year of the wooden green snake wood green snake so in many parts of Taiwan we call those born in the year the snake as quote unquote Little Dragons why it's because many mothers tried to get pregnant during the year of the dragon and they missed a day so they end up having Little Dragons which is born the year the snake um so you'll find a lot of the young kids who are born uh especially boys who are born in the year of the snake they're called literally their nickname is little dragon so um also another interesting tidbit many people have asked me why Chinese New Year always you know now politically correct to say Lunar New Year but why is it always later than January 1 well let me just tell you um the Chinese New Year has always been um around and it's always been in existence since 1912 it wasn't until after 1912 that the the insertion or the incorporation of January 1st being the New Year came into existence in in the Asian countries so um why is it Chinese New Year rather than just a regular Lunar New Year because it's technically not um it's not lunar calendar it's the the strict um basis for lunar calendars actually um practiced in Islam but the Chinese New Year is the incorporation the lunar calendar and the sun calendar and incorporate it into the Four Season so they do a little bit of adjustment each year in order to incorporate um all the calendars to make sure that it it sort of reflects the agricultural conditions reflect the seasons as well as what is necessary all right so the Lunar New Year is um the I guess based on the moon is actually only 29.5 days so the sun calendar is 30.2 days that's why when we um when we use the sun calendar um every four years they have like a leap here they add one more day well in the moon calendar they can't just add one more day because there's technically 11 days difference between the Sun and the Moon so they actually add a month an entire month um every two or three um month every two or three years so that's the reason why when you look at it the Chinese count the Chinese New Year is always about 15 days to 30 days after the um the January 1st New Year all right so many of us know that the Chinese has a tradition of giving out red envelopes with money to Children looks like the ones that we have here and so a little legend the legend says that there's a monster that's called year quot unquote year that comes out at the end of old year and harasses children and elders while they're sleeping so the monster is afraid of bright colors bright lights and Loud Noises so it is customary for people to stay awake to guard against the attack of the monster year on the eve of the new year to keep themselves awake the people gathered their friends and families to play music eat drink and talk together inside the house outside the house they set off firecrackers bang the gong laugh and yell to keep the energy of the house High die well unfortunately it is very difficult to keep children awake so one of the mothers back in the old days decided to give her children some coins to play with and to keep them awake well the children tried they play with the coins and then they got tired and the CH and then they splashed the coins on top of their pillow and then they went to bed well the monster year came and looked at the coins and it was really bright so um you know they got scared the monster went away so there in lies the reason why children start getting money during Chinese New Year because you know they give them to coins to put under under their pillow to make sure they're safe all right so that's how it came about um we want to keep the children safe we want to keep the elders Safe Keep The W off the U the evil spirits before the end of the New Year red envelopes became a part of tradition because Chinese people love the color red in the old days it is considered to be one of the most difficult color to die and the most expensive to purchase the color red stands second to the importance of the Imperial yellow that the Emperors wear so red signifies success prosperity and luck so if you're wearing red that means you're you're you're going somewhere in life giving red envelopes filled with money are a symbol of giving good wishes to those who um receive it so so the Chinese New Year is 15 days so starting from January 29th that's where you count 15 days it is said that those elders and young children who can make it through the new year will have survived the monster not before so it is not safe until the 15 days is over so look into your elderly parents and your neighbors keep your children closed stick a red envelope under their pillow to wear off the evil spirit and have a safe and prosperous New Year Happy Chinese New Year yay thank you well done Maria thank you okay we're we're gonna stay where you're at Lisa but we're we're going to go back and just confirm with everybody the propositions and and make sure everybody's in agreement on on how they're categorized so we've got streets at 342 we got b as police headquarters 155 we have c a PD training facility 51 we have D Public Safety facilities 37 we have e uh the parkway services and Fleet 54 F Municipal facilities that's okay I'm getting ahead I'm reading fast can you do them okay um now we got no yeah couple more that was at C we I'm at F Municipal facilities is that did you combine that did we combine yeah okay so F would be libraries 1.8 and then Parks is that what you got parks at at 40 yeah we can put you want to swap parks in libraries shim finic okay and so it' be a through G A through G is what it'll end up being or or something in that heard uh 342 on streets which I thought I thought that was the number we started with tonight and then we took out downtown right away and I thought screening walls and you're correct you did we we we we're just trying to categorize oh okay I I thought we were saying that was the number we were sticking with you're right so we'll get number number you're right but basically the proposition so we'll we'll we'll get the numbers correct but the propositions will be a is streets B is the police headquarters and Public Safety Communications C is the police training center D is public saf other Public Safety facility so it's going to be fire yeah e would be the parkway Fleet building F would be shenic library and then G would be parks and I think we have everything covered at that and we can be be more descriptive if need be we'll get Bob's recommendation on that we'll get it out to you'all ahead of time okay um are you all comfortable with that are you all comfortable with that order okay good thank you okay consent agenda did Rick Le okay yes in casing so nobody El consent agenda the consent agenda will be acted upon in one motion and contains item items which are routine and typically non-controversial items may be removed from this agenda for individual discussion by a council member the city manager or any citizen the presiding officer will establish time limits based upon the number of speaker requests all right do I have a motion wh I got you go ahead motion to approve um the consent agenda except for item number is it k kdi kdi k d and I yeah do I have second thank you say it again second thank you thank you okay I have a motion a second to approve the consent agenda with the exception of K D and I please vote Casey went to looks like Casey's gone as well sheap yeah so we're down to this is all you got all right okay motion passes seven to zero seven hold on let's let's redo that yeah I don't I think I hit a wrong button yeah Casey didn't vote Rick Rick's gone all right do you want to vote again yeah let me get this back in here okay let's try it again my apologies no it's okay new technology okay please vote there we go well Shelby did you vote there you go okay we're good I'm GNA just now that should be six and vote okay motion passes 6 to Z terrific okay item you want to go alphabetical sure let's do D item D to approve the purchase of shimlin shelving produ project in the estimated amount of 383,899 documents okay say that three times real fast Lisa um based on the discussion we just had and uh based on my observation of the sheling um it's like I said it's scratched up but it's perfectly serviceable I would like to uh defer this item until the actual remodel of shimlin and I don't know whether I need to make a motion to table for a year or indefinitely or deny for now what would be Council I think I think denial for now is the cleaner version and then we can bring it back to you in in future um uh at a future meeting just understanding the the direction of council so uh not knowing when that uh when that project is going to take place I think that's a little bit easier these are funds that we do have I think Paul is at the 2021 Bond referendum that these are still bond funds from so we will be holding those forward so uh just to be aware of that as well well if that's the well go ahead I I was just gonna ask Mr Mayor if I if I could ask go ahead Li a question thank you because I will I will tell you continuing the the weird synchronicity of our minds I actually emailed Mark about this item for the same reason because uh we have a we have 25 shimlin Bond issuance and then we have uh this item separately the the response that came back was that essentially there there's no um there's no efficiency to be gained by Rolling this into the um the the remodel for the 25 bond package is there that's what I understand yes because the there's also well yes I'll just leave it with that I don't think there's any efficiency from what I understand from facilities in doing that with the bond so I guess actually this may be a Paul question I'm sorry I I'll answer what I can sounds like maybe that's a facilities question I'm sorry but I think the the bonds have already been sold plus we're just looking at higher price yes because say we're already paying interest I think on these ones because these are 2021 bonds that we that we issued in the last issuance right or or no yes sir that is that is true okay and and so um uh I I actually asked the same question for the same reason as council member Williams but if there are is that correct Paul that there are no efficiencies to be gained by we no that was my comment earlier of we go underneath Library shelving we have ways to lift it up in repl carpet there is really no efficiencies based on what is scoped currently for shim fin to defer this okay all you're doing is costing us escalation okay so so there's cost escalation and interest in the meantime and there there's no the replacing the shelving now is not going to cause any issues with the remodel where it would have been better to wait not as we have it currently scoped no sir okay okay so um well I guess I guess council member Williams has has a motion I was just going to suggest that as much as I asked the same question for the same reason because I I liked the idea of roll it all into one project the fact that we're already paying interest on this debt that there could be cost escalation if we wait and that there's no efficiency to be gained by Rolling this into the remodel for the 25 bond package makes me think that it might be better to move forward with this now and then uh you know and and then do the rest of the work after the 25 bond that makes sense I would like to understand the expected life of the new shelving because I mean there's a lot of shelving in there but um $400,000 is a lot yeah um so the original shelving is about 40 plus years old I mean it's it's held up there you go um uh par Library would be our newest library at 23 24 years um this aligns with the shelving that all the newer libraries have so the ability to swap or share things is really helpful um in terms of extending life for everybody actually across the system how do you mean swap or share things it's the same shelving units so we can share between buildings if we need to or if something breaks um a lot of shelving at times gets bent or broken or just well loved over the years so we we share oh okay I wouldn't have thought that we share all things in the libraries okay and this one wasn't required to go out for competitive bid and I'm I have no idea what the going rate for Library shelving is um any any kind of reasonable comparison to what we've spent in other libraries on similar shelving oh gosh I don't have those numbers right now sorry um the last Library we would have done would have been Davis Library with the bond money okay yeah because of the price tag this one jumped out at me which is why I looked into it this closely um since um okay I I understand the rationale behind not uh um denying it now but I would like to better understand the the cost involved in the shelving and understanding that the last shelving has lasted 40 some odd years um I have a reasonable expectation the new shelving will last but I would um request to table this to the next meeting to just get some uh Better Price information sorry Maria Mr Mayor counc Williams if you look at the background does say that um the quote was on January 9th 2025 and the project in cluee replacement it goes on and says that the lowest responsive and responsible quote was submitted by Libra Tech Corporation there was only one submitter there were a total of four vendors notified of this project only they gave a quote so technically there are four bits we asked four people to come in and give a quote and only one person decided to do so so I wouldn't consider this just an individual one um one quote the other three have basically decided they're not going to um and that was the lowest response a responsible quote I I I mean if we have the money I you know part of the bond so so anyway sorry second the motion to table I I will tell you I I have had the experience where you come to the meeting having thought as as council member Williams did I'm going to move to table or deny based on rolling it into the remodel and then when information came out that said you know maybe there's no benefits rolling it into the comprehensive remodel um you know you might not get past that in your thought process having planned to come to the meeting and do that and so then other questions may not have yet been answered and so I would support tabling it to the next meeting to uh to get council member Williams questions answered and I don't think we'll lose anything by tbling for two weeks Rick just for clarification how many shells are we talking about how many linear Fe of shells do you know ballpark does it say on there simple answer is all of them oh there's all of them okay and that's installed cost yes sir and are they going to be taken away the old shelves yes sir well that's a bargain that's a bargain no matter how you look at let's let's go ahead and vote on the the tabling I have a motion in second okay so I I have a motion in a second to table uh item D please vote okay motion is 3 three so it fails is there another motion do have another motion oh hold on she has to go back um okay it probably fail Maria motion to approve okay second okay I have a motion a second to approve okay please vote to approve item D motion passes 5 to one okay you next item is item a oh I excuse me I'm I need some help sorry you're doing good item I item I to accept the findings and opinions of the annual audit and authorizing the city manager or in his absence the Director of Finance to publish the results thereof and providing an effective date who who pulled this Anthony did you I I thought uh oh sorry this is the audit I thought we were doing uh K next okay yeah sorry sorry I thought we were on the trying to go alphabetical and I oh sorry sorry yeah no I that that I I got mixed around but so okay well then so the only reason I pulled this is because uh council member Williams and I are on the finance committee so we had the opportunity uh to meet with our excellent finance department uh including uh Denise tacky Allison fro and and the great you know the great uh leadership there at the uh uh at the finance department um and and and and also our outside Auditors and here honestly the same thing that we hear every year which is that uh we have the best finance department in the world uh I'm paraphrasing their worlds but their words but that's basically what they say you know we always get a an unmodified opinion which is the best you can do uh Plano is always the first to get their ducks in a row every year and uh I believe we are on track for what our 44th a year in a row to win uh a gfoa award uh so I just wanted to compliment our finance team on y'all's excellent work thank you so much uh wanted to report on the on the excellent opinion from the outside auditor and with that I will move to approve this item I'll second and ditto everything councilman rodelli just said yall have my deepest appreciation thank you thank you thank you so much congratulations all right I have a motion a second to approve item I please vote all right motion passes six to zero item K item K an ordinance to amend section six - 4912 political signs non-commercial purpose signs of division 3 permitted signs of article 7 or excuse me article 12 temporary signs of chapter 6 building and building regulation of the code of ordinances of the city of Plano and to amend regulations for political signs non-commercial purpose signs at strictly a publicly owned active polling locations and providing a repealer clause of sever Clause a savings Clause a penalty Clause a publication clause and an effective date okay this was U this was pulled by um a citizen oh there you are all right and um uh I I just wanted to we we talked about this in November was that right Soo okay so we we talked about this and talked about um uh our IL to U enforce it and and without uh liability of lawsuits and so uh paig Mims our City attorney uh would I would like you to uh tell the opinion that that we've received from from you and staff all right is all of council comfortable with that yeah okay so we um had initially raised some concerns under suem suem court case law about um regulating the number of signs because when we're doing it on city property in order to enforce that we would have to read the signs which creates First Amendment concerns and so um we have had a letter from an attorney for someone that had signs at the properties also raising these concerns and so Council expressed the desire to to create the ordinance to be more legally defensible and that way we remove those restrictions on numbers but we're going to keep the requirements for size and we're also not going to allow them right by the curb we'll still have the area designated by celso's department for which you have to place the signs behind that line Thank you thank you and with that being said I'll I'll take a motion did you I'm sorry oh go ahead please I'm sorry Mr Stafford please come up okay and September of 2021 just John Stafford 1401 Harvest Glen Drive um in September of 2021 you guys fulfilled a campaign promise and I stood here and I thanked each and every one of of you for fulfilling that campaign promise and passing the signed ordinance so imagine my shock and surprise when come November in this last general election we're no longer enforcing the sign ordinance that you all had passed in November of 2021 a sign ordinance that is in line with what Plano ISD requires at their locations what Colin college requires at their locations and is even more free than what Allen allows at its locations because Allen only allows four at its City locations same with Allen ISD they only allow four signs per candidate at their at their sign locations and so all of a sudden Plano has gotten rid of the ordinance and I was apoplectic at that I was angry at that and most of you got text messages and phone calls from me afterwards uh because of that okay um because of the non- enforcement of this as a campaign operative and a Precinct chair I heard from numerous people that they felt scared and intimidated when they were going to vote because we had these big walls of signs up there that were just scaring and intimidating it's like okay one side had 30 40 signs per candidate there and the other side followed the law and only planned for five signs and that's what they got at every single location so um when we get down into state law uh state law 2592 allows a limitation of one sign in certain location okay state law 2593 allows cities to create their own limitations on signs um the First Amendment complaint that you had that you're expressing page okay yes everybody gets to have speech if they have five signs at a at a polling location that everybody is allowed their speech but there is also a 14th Amendment which seems to get ignored in these which is the equal prote under the laws and that we have everybody if we have five signs per candidate that's equal protection for everybody so I am asking you to reject this because this ordinance sents us right back to where we were in 2020 before the TW before that amendment was passed please please just reject the reject this thing because even worse the worst part of this particular ordinance is it allows the walls of signs okay they can only be 42 Ines but we can still have the walls of signs there and that's an even worse State because we put all right Johnny appreciate it yeah please um from all the VI you've been given over the years we can regulate the limit to limit the number of signs on private property because I can just count signs Salos group can just count signs I don't have to read those to enforce those limitations on private property which I believe is the state law reference that he was referring to but when it comes to public property it's a different equation and so you know others may have those I don't advise those cities but our goal for this city of Plano is to mitigate legal risk and especially when we think there's an inability or um problem with defending the city and that helps keep taxes down that helps keep your budget in line and so that's where we come with our legal advice to you okay Maria um I'm struggling I'm sorry um I I would ask ask for maybe um potentially just defer it for a couple weeks so that table it for a couple weeks so that I have a chance to discuss this with other people but that you know but I I changed my mind I was going to ask for approval but after hearing the comments I I would like to have this table for for temporarily so that's my motion Jo I'll second that okay I have a motion a second to to table item um K Shelby go ahead yes thank you um I just wanted to point out that um I I don't like the Clutter of signs myself but uh back in 2021 I voted to um leave it as it was without restricting the number um I am not just a Precinct chair I'm a county chair and I had precisely zero people relate to me that they were intimidated annoyed yes but not intimidated um so I'm I'm in favor of um I'm in favor of this okay we have a motion a second to table this item what an Anthony oh thank you no I I was uh I was just going to say that I think as a practical matter Council we we've uh we've already authorized our City attorney to divulge the legal advice that we were given publicly if we were to do anything other than to enact this repealing ordinance we would get sued and and certainly lose because we have uh said that our legal position as a city is that it's not legal to enforce the ordinance as previously written so anyway I I'm I'm sympathetic to the point I don't I think most people don't like clutter at polling places but you know having having divulged legal advice that um that we don't think we can defend the ordinance as previously written I just don't think we can leave it as is all right I have a motion in a second to table item k please vote Okay it's 3 three so it fails um okay yeah let's go I think everybody's I brick i' like to make a motion that we approve item K and I will okay I have a motion and yeah all right I have a motion in a second to approve item k please vote motion passes five to one all right next item all right items for individual discussion public hearing items applicants are limited to 15 minutes presentation time with a f minute rebuttal if needed remaining speakers are limited Limited to 30 total minutes of testimony time with three minutes assigned per speaker the presiding officer May amend these times as deemed necessary non-public hearing items the presiding officer will permit public comment for items on the agenda not posted for a public hearing the presiding officer will establish time limits based upon the number of speaker requests length of the agenda and to ensure meeting efficiency and may include a cumulative time limit speakers will be called in the order the requests are received until accumulative time is exhausted item number one public hearing and consideration of the Silverline station areas plan a long range planning policy for the 12th Street and Shiloh road station areas um this item is consideration of a silver line stationaries plan longrange plan planning document for the station areas given that you've already received a detailed presentation on this I'm going to skip to the end and let you know that the Planning and Zoning recommended approval with a vote of a to zero I'm happy to answer any questions you may have all right thanks Mike Anthony thank you mayor uh one question I just wanted to make sure um this as I understand it would be in the downtown corridor's dashboard uh and if I'm understanding correctly the dashboard calculations from the comprehensive plan p that that apply to the downtown corridors dashboard would would still apply uh within this uh uh Tod plan is that correct uh no sir so this as a small area plan the language of the comprehensive plan specifically states that due to the extens of public Outreach and the detailed information that the small area plan controls okay okay gotcha well thank you for that clarification it would still control outside of the stationaries though okay so basically just in in the station areas okay thank you thank you all right thanks I'll open the public hearing do I have speakers we do have speakers on this item the first speaker is William Cravens well you can both come up and speak together and how much time mayor um just a minute this is a this is not controversial okay well first of all U thank you for uh having us here today and we appreciate uh all the hard work that the planning uh staff has done they conduct a number of shetes I attended each and every one of them uh there was a tremendous Outreach to the public and they were able to come up with uh what I think is a very very fine plan uh it took a great deal of time and effort for them to do it uh and my hats off to them uh it includes something that we think is really important to the transit area especially with the silver line and the red line now coming together 20 seconds I I I'm giving everybody a minute we we we understand and and consequently uh the efforts that that that the staff put together on this were so extraordinary and so outreaching to the public and the public uh commented and they took their comments and uh they performed on them so I hope the city will consider this uh positively and move forward with this uh 12 Street plan thank you thank you thanks Mr Cravens he not there's only one the next speaker is shyam ganam that's joining us on Zoom he he's not we only have one sign yeah hello are youall able to hear me go ahead all right um hello my name is Sean and I am in support of the Silver Line Station planning I believe that the placements of the stations are great for communting around the Metroplex and be convenience stations thank you thank you um the next speaker is min and they were supposed to be on Zoom are they in the audience by chance okay um then let's see the next speaker is tan do please turn on your camera and microphone hello can you hear me yes go ahead uh I'm my name is pandu I'm a board member of the medicine estate neighborhood this neighborhood is the only neighborhood along the Silver Line in city of a PLO the railway just is behind the fence of this neighborhood between Railway and the fence there is a ditch it's a drain for the water come from the railway during The Heavy R however Silver Line engineer they get the bushes and the tree along the fence line and ditch done so the soil seconds the soil just get Eren with time the power line will also get done so we request the silver line to put a retainer wall so that the neighborhood can be still survive with big engineering work okay that's all thank you thank you um Ariel Herrera I think they left Corey Riker good evening again um I'm just here to register my support for this uh I participated in the the stakeholder input uh as a resident of the Oldtown neighborhood which is just adjacent to the state uh station areas and I think that the this plan does a lot to refine the the Community Vision and most importantly is going to be adding lot of provides the opportunity to add a lot of Housing and density around these new stations which is uh so important for the city so that's what I got thank you thank you okay and um we're gonna call the other William Cravens because we think he was dropped off inadvertently hi Will Cravens I live at uh 10281 17 Street in downtown Plano uh very supportive of this plan and hopefully it's adopted this evening um I am hopeful that Council will retain some flexibility in considering some proposals from property owners and developments developers uh that are impacted within this plan uh I'm hopeful that street improvements will be prioritized to create the character and walkability that we all seek and uh create an environment for further development to commence um the plan also indicates that the property south of 14th Street be rezoned to BG which would be a wonderful idea um 2 seconds the cost of Zoning for smaller pieces of property is difficult to amortise uh due to the size of the property so if the city can help with that I think it'll uh spur further development so thank you so much that concludes the speakers okay all right no more speakers I'll close the public hearing confine the comments to the council Rick M Mr Mayor I make a motion we approve agenda item number one got it Julie second okay I have a motion and a second to approve uh item number one please vote motion passes six to zero thank you comments of public interest comments of public interest this portion of the meeting is to allow up to three minutes per speaker with 30 total minutes on items of Interest or concern and not on items that are on the current agenda the council may not discuss these items but may respond with factual or policy information the council may choose to place the item on a future agenda and we do have two speakers this evening the first speaker is Alex Stein can you guys see me go ahead Mr Stein uh okay you guys can see me hold on uh it's hard okay ladies and gentlemen boys and girls children of all ages it's me Prime Time 99 Alex Stein you guys skipped me last week and you know that we had a lawsuit against the city so for you to say that it was just some sort of accident I just find that hard to believe I know you guys are too busy with your dang peanut butter drive and nobody even gives a dang about peanut butter it's not even any good without jelly let's just be real so you guys are trying to raise a bunch of peanut butter yet you have one the highest incomes per capita of any city in the country and youall worried about dang peanut butter you guys need to get your priorities straight now what we do need to worry about is the I don't know if you guys are familiar with uh Nick Rada though and what's going on with him in steel toe morning show this is Nick cada right here this is Aon and mol they recently were doing a wife swapping situation and then they told on each other for being on drugs and Nick Rada recently took a plea deal so his life is back on track so we love that that's good now now we got to talk about Jerry Jones we're in the city of Plano all right I love Plano you love Plano even though a bunch of Dallas Cowboys died of heroin overdoses in Plano uh Mark T and A you know the list goes on there's a whole opioid epidemic in Plano because there's a bunch of Rich affluent parents that just have their housekeepers raise their kids and they're not even involved in their lives and they don't even really care about them because they're basically disconnected and worried about their own stuff so the kids get hooked on fentol and opiates next thing you know they take a hot pill and they wake up dead and that's a sad reality happening in Plano so you guys are trying to mess with me but you guys have still limited the ability for speakers to come speak to you in person because you guys are cowards I can't even see your face on the zoom call right now you guys are just as cowardly as Jerry Jones hiring Brian Schottenheimer who's not qualified to be the coach of the Dallas Cowboys because he's never even been a head coach at any organization or team that he's ever been a part of the Dallas Cowboys are ran by a bunch of imbeciles just like the city of Plano surounded by a bunch of hote heads a bunch of old people that have no idea what they're doing they don't care about their fans they don't care about their constituents they don't care about their dang citizens you guys are wasting not only your time but my time when I sit at these dang meetings for hours and then you skip over me so it's not going to work that's not going to work with me Jack so mayor Ms you got Prime Time 99 pimp on a blimp I went insane for the Ukraine in your Chambers you know what they don't even look that good whoever designed that your lighting looks terrible you look like a dang a corpse you're so white you need to get some color in your skin you need to try to you know pep in your step whatever you got to do to look more alive because the lighting makes you look like you're 100 years older than than you actually are so mayor Ms you need to fix that you need to tell the Dallas Cowboys that no player should live in Plano we should Outlaw any Dallas Cowboys from from being in Plano and luckily Donald Trump's kicking out illegal immigrants even though there's not really any illegal immigrants in Plano I know there's one Asian lady on the council and I hope they don't kick out any of your illegal family members if they are illegal I'm not sure just saying if they are I hope they do not get kicked out even though I support Trump kicking out all um illegal immigrants with criminal history so I just want to say don't ever skip me again I was really laying off you guys and then you guys have awakened a be so I'll be back in person you need to fix it so we can come speak to you in person so I can see your faces because I know you're scared Mar mons I know you're shaking in your boots right now I can hear you I can feel you the next speaker is Christopher ricelli how much time do I have go ahead how much time do I have three minutes okay three minutes my name's Chris richelli uh I'm a resident of Plano for 14 years I'm here just to address the concern of buz Buzz Razer park at mcder and KO intersection on the west side we had over 250 uh signatures from local families just over the weekend uh for a petition I had sent it to all Council me all council members at about approximately 3:50 p.m. today uh just to give a highlight of the petition uh it's to just the Curr in state of the park it fails to meet the needs of our community and poses significant health and safety and accessibility challenges for children families and elderly uh updated Park improvements are needed immediately uh other Park reasons are lack of restroom facilities uh for anybody who needs to use a restroom the absence of bathroom of restrooms has led to situations where children have experienced accidents or families have had to leave had to leave the park prematurely uh additionally the park uh also is a uh rway for Preston Ridge Trail Runners uh a bike path on Ridge View and the Legacy Trail all three Converge on the intersection the children's equipment is outdated it needs to be redesigned it's only uh designated two through five leaving older kids without suitable activities there's flooding issues on the West and East sides uh leading to uh improper drainage was critical uh preventing poor pooling of water uh which creates unsafe slippery conditions and diminishes the ability of the park additionally stagnant water becomes a breeding ground for mosquitoes posing a health risk including potential westn virus several community members have noted that during the summer the park becomes unusable and due to the mosquito population larger Pavilion is needed to address population increases in activity in the area uh Bridge connectivity because a lot of kids Cross mcder Road on the southide uh parking accessibility for ADA Compliant uh elderly people are not able to access the part during rainy during rainy times uh currently parking is only available on Rock Ledge Lane on the on the west side of the park which is a high traffic area and then also teral Trail which is a semic cold saac uh safety concerns need to be improved immediately the lighting fencing update update surfaces which will create a safer environment preventing injuries and discouraging unsafe behaviors uh restrooms will promote proper hygiene practices such as handwashing reducing the spread of illness and shared recreational space and Community accessibility would increase allowing all ages to make the space usable for families uh we the upgrades cannot wait and would be highly utilized by everybody Med the area especially with having over 250 uh about 250 signatures within a 10-hour period uh uh it would highly benefit everybody we thank you for the city council for reviewing our concerns and taking the next steps for our community needs and we uh want to live up to the reputation as a city of a community of Excellence thank you so much that was the last speaker one of the gentlemen that had signed up to speak earlier tonight is now on Zoom did you want to hear what he has to say say for it was for one of the dart items Silver Line sure okay one minute one minute David go ahead and turn your camera on you have one minute H hello are you Bo hear me yes go ahead I apologize uh for not joining earlier I was having some technical issues um thank you for allowing me to speak um I just want to say I'm very excited for the silver line I even though I currently do not reside in Plano um uh I conduct a lot of business uh in Plano and um I think the city of Plano uh will benefit greatly from continuing to support Dart and doing everything it can to support Dart uh support um uh the finishing of the Silver Line in any way that the uh uh City can do that uh I think is uh extremely important um additionally uh just to comment on that the inappropriate comments of the pre uh gentleman um uh from uh the one before uh Plano has a wonderful Asians South Asian Community uh beautiful uh immigrant Community I hope Plano continues to be more and more welcoming uh uh to all people thank you thank you thank you we we had a meeting today Anthony oh with Chris oh fantastic and I thought we had an understanding of our next steps and then he decided to do this too but I we we're going to work with Ron and and find out you know what what we're looking at oh okay fantastic I I was just gonna ask for a you know feedback on the position that we so it's you know we've already done this once already today now it's twice oh gotta we'll we'll we'll get the information oh sure fantastic there being no further business we're Jour okay [Music] [Music] [Music] began and so we have uh downtown design standards and we have uh Heritage preservation uh procedures in place to help preserve downtown and a lot of these locations we're talking about the reimagining this place downtown Plano has become an Arts District well this all began really in 2002