[0:00] Mayor Luke Hellier: I will call this August 28th work session to order that you will join me for a moment of silence and pledge allegiance. [0:20] Mayor Luke Hellier: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all and I have number three citizens comments moving on to item 4A proposed rental registration ordinance I'm sorry it doesn't show on this new Civic part I'm learning however the presenters thank you mayor members of the council back in April we discussed the options of rental licensing or rental [1:07] Tina Goodroad (Community Development Director): registration we looked at several different codes there's several cities in our surrounding area that do the rental licensing and there's several that do the rental registration and Council directed staff to prepare resident rental registration ordinance so that has been attached in the packet so this is kind of a first step towards this kind of implementation some of the advantages of implementing registration is to have an inventory an ownership or manager information of our rental properties including single family and Town Hall so it provides also an opportunity for us to send out and make accessible education materials for both owners as well as those who are renting so the draft ordinance explains [1:53] Tina Goodroad: purpose and intent provides definition and then the ordinance goes into who it applies to and so it'll be any rental residential rental unit which is defined in the ordinance except for licensed facilities hotel motels in single family owner-occupied dwelling units each rental unit would have to have a designated rental manager and that can be the same the owner can serve in that role does it have to be a separate person and the whole intent behind that is for us to have a contact person so whether let's say there's a watering break we are able to to then reach out to that property owner or that manager I should say and be able to speak to them about that so then the ordinance goes [2:39] Tina Goodroad: through the required information which we would have on a fillable format on the website once this is implemented so it'd be the address of the property owner information the manager information and then we're asking questions we're not requiring that we're asking questions on whether or not a background check is being done whether or not a release is being used and whether or not the lease addendum for the drug free crime free is being used they are making those requirements we're just asking if they're utilizing them so it'll be just a check box and then one thing that the council can weigh in on is whether or not we want to require a fee I'm not necessarily suggesting it I think this will be fairly straightforward once it gets implemented we're proposing a 90-day start once it's [3:26] Tina Goodroad: adopted so that we have time to develop the list it's really easy you for all of our stacked multi-family we have an inventory and contact information for those but we want to go through and generate the list for single family town homes that we don't know that might be rented and do that through evaluating utility billing and there's a difference between the the names of the where that bill is going to that'll be an indicator we can cross-reference that against Homestead not Homestead we'll send letters out letting people know what we're doing and if you receive a letter and you shouldn't have received a letter because you're not renting that property they could call us and let us know so we can take that name off the list but then provide some education as to why we're [4:12] Tina Goodroad: doing this provide some resources and then give them the start date when they would need to register and then we will have a fillable form on our website make it as easy as possible for people to register and start building that inventory so this is a very kind of straightforward first step basic approach I think the intent initial is for Community Development Department to initiate this if we move into a higher level of license and down in the future we may need to do some more work with the police department but I think to get this initial phase out we can handle this in the Community Development Department um so the draft is before you um if you're comfortable with it we can get this on a future agenda and again we [4:58] Tina Goodroad: want three months or 90 days to kind of get our ducks in a row um before we start this requirement can I stand for any questions sorry I have one question um related to one of the questions on there yes the owner let's say single family home is owned by somebody if they allow well maybe this is under the drug free part where they allow cannabis consumption so I asked that to say you know let's say there's a house that has and just a whole lot of cannabis activity in their backyard and they complain is it treated the same under state law as a single family or is it because it's rental it's treated differently you might not have an answer that I do [5:43] Tina Goodroad: not know the answer to that do you have an opinion I don't I mean the the Cannabis kind of the outdoor use or multi-family housing use is kind of under the uh smoking realm where that is so a form of a private single family dwelling I'm not sure where that would I Advil to look at that and if I had an answer and move them off the top of my head we can look into that other questions um I'm saying that I want a fee but the only reason I would ever want to fee is if we're trying to offset our administrative costs so I don't know if there's a time that when you'll know what that like a yearly [6:30] Councilmember Dan Wolter: cost would be and a phenomenal let's say a 25 yearly fee is something that would cover um cover us for the extra work I think that's something that can be examined I think honestly the work is going to be on The Upfront before we're even collecting any registrations and working with finance department and GIS to kind of come up with that database and then do the work of getting the letters out and you know any fee that we would charge would kind of backfill any time spent on that but then going forward having the fillable form we can kind of monitor it maybe in that first year and see if it's taking a lot of time but I really think the time spent by staff will be up front well but the [7:18] Councilmember Dan Wolter: time spent by staff um number one you're gonna have to at least a couple times a year make those comparisons for people moving in and out and the utility changes to when it comes time for I mean how long does this last I I think um the ordinance requires you know re-registration after a change in ownership or change in um yeah basically change in ownership there isn't an end um to the ordinance it would be on it would be continual ongoing I suppose if in the future the council ever shifted to licensing this would transition into that um and then so [8:05] Councilmember Dan Wolter: um it has to do with the violations there is no line there's no penalty I mean I guess what I'm trying to figure out is the violations are so benign that why force me into having to report it and I think that's the tricky thing and I can talk to Andrea a little bit more about this but I think that's a tricky thing doing registration it's just kind of the light version versus an ordinance which um you can get into and more effectively have a violation so I think that's the difference I do think though that about Body Shop City organism [8:51] Tina Goodroad: that's just the standard yeah yeah so I mean if we have it here it's unlawful for any person to operate because we operated any property as a residential rental without first registering and they don't do that that's a violation of an estimate should it maybe be outlined in yeah we don't do that with the rest of the code you don't and Andrea did do a first review of this maybe the letter that goes to people for the initial registration would you know at least tell them that there is a a penalty that would go along with it yep we can certainly do that um is this public information so if I [9:36] Councilmember Joshua Lee: apply for a if I register my house and all that information can the neighbors go and find out I think it is other licenses is that the case yeah maybe when we did dog licenses periodically we get requests for those you know from beds or places like that I'm pretty sure I know they were signed up in the legislature a couple years ago I didn't do some revisions on licenses but we had to check your intensive published they would have to do data purchases um and then my second is um I guess to me one of the biggest bigger concerns here is kind of out of State corporate ownership of single-family houses and I guess my question is do we [10:24] Councilmember Joshua Lee: need to ask for more more information if they're a corporate owner rather than just name address telephone number something about where the corporations domiciled or I don't know maybe overthinking that but not really I think it's a good question yeah if a corporation owns it so ABC property ownership would be the owner who files it and they would say our local management is def Property Management I suppose name and address you have the ability to look it up and find that yeah I think what I'm here we need to know the corporation [11:10] Councilmember Joshua Lee: right like what they're yeah yeah well that's a good point I'll look into that with Andrea because they're proper their rental managers are going to be local you know potentially yeah but they wouldn't have to have one [11:35] Councilmember Dan Wolter: the manager doesn't have to be local that's it no just has to be somebody but I guess my point as to the corporation information when when we're only asking for the registration person and the property owner when uh I mean the rental manager um then you're kind of leaving out the ownership part yep um I like the uh I like the draft uh I would suggest no fee um as you said our objective is to get an inventory and I think we want to make it as easy as possible for people to fill this out and complete it there is [12:21] Councilmember John Bermel: some work I mean you will not really know if somebody's status has changed unless a problem pops up but then this gives us the ability to address the problem so that's I like the draft um the other thing that I would say is this is a great first step I think if we have the proper relational and educational uh efforts around this so somebody fills out a lease and they go oh we don't have a crime-free drug-free addendum well let's get those people together and go hey this is what a crime free drug-free addendum is and this is how it can help you manage your property etc etc so I think in addition to the ordinance this can be it's going to be really it [13:08] Councilmember John Bermel: would be really good to have some kind of educational effort along with it and I'm not an attorney but I did just look up uh the crime free drug League freed Lisa dead and it's just a standard throughout the country and IT addresses uh uh prohibition against illegal drugs so whatever drugs would be illegal so I'm not sure work sure one more thought when we're looking at the boss to this I guess I would add in the cost of um a lot of times when you have rental properties I'm not trying to stereotype but you're going to have uh police calls to those types of properties [13:53] Councilmember Michelle Volk: and so I'm not really sure how we um oh we account for that but we should probably be looking into you know is there an increase in these types of properties and would the fee if there were one you know go go to help offset that cost too of Police Service you include fired ambulance on that as well um so that maybe because my mind is being so stereotypical I'm just thinking of the um the the calls to the police I don't I guess I'd have to leave that up to you [14:39] Councilmember Michelle Volk: guys I mean do you really think that um these properties are more prone to have those types of service calls I guess I was just thinking that they'd be more prone to having a police officer there than they would fire and um but I could be just being biased seems like a data point though assess once we have an inventory but I don't know that there's really data up there to verify that at this point banana good way it really depends on the type of conflicts of Senior Living we have a lot of medical related calls you know fire and EMS um I think just by essence of a large amount of people in a one unit generate more calls for service but it [15:27] Fire Chief Mike Meyer: really is is uh complex dependent to a management and some does a very good job of Boeing clients and renters some don't to those increased level of calls per service so it's not a completely a broad rush to say all rental properties create more calls to there certainly are some that do and I guess I wasn't expecting I guess I was just looking at you said you're going to look at it over the year and the next couple years or whatever I just wanted to make sure that it would be another day nothing that we'd have to know today yeah to be part of the evaluation yep um the only other things for us to think about I don't know if we needed to the point but I do know like neighboring communities have had situations that had [16:13] Mayor Luke Hellier: to revoke um licenses because of what I think there was like a really tough probability in Burnsville this last year that you know to protect the tenants more than anything I don't think this allow us to do that I also don't think we have buildings in that shape just it's good to have something as a starter to protect the people that live there or something bad language so and to that point too I mean this is one piece of the puzzle we have building codes uh that really can help address some of those really extreme circumstances and cases end Code Compliance equal compliance so we do have ordinances and state codes it really hits something that's [16:59] Tina Goodroad: drastic other questions or comments you feel too yep okay we're good all right we'll move on to the Dakota County elections jvpa and I believe in I figured out it says right here at the top is presenter [17:20] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: good evening comes up early back in 2022 a group of clerics got together and asked the elections Department if they would consider taking over the mail portion of absentee voting the number of Voters that are casting their ballots the absentee had increased so much that the clerks are starting to become overwhelmed with that along with in-person voting and get preparing our precincts that we have in Lakeville we have 18 and it happens all at the same time within that last two weeks before the election day um so after the election Dakota County assembled a working group of city clerks and administrators and they got together to prepare this draft joint Powers agreement that I've attached to your memo tonight [18:06] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: um the jpa is going to help centralize absentee male voting Services it'll allow the process to be consistent across the county and Dakota County already has a central ballot counter and that machine is designed to stay valid Jam free and to accurately process thousands ballots at a time instead of the individual cities processing them by hand so it would go much faster and it all happens during the crunch um in 2024 I just want to remind you that there are three elections we'll have the presidential nominating primary so the 46 days of absentee voting like again in January because that election is the first Tuesday in March um the state Primary in August [18:54] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: um absentee voting will begin in June for that and then we'll have the general election and voting starts at the end of September and City Hall would still remain open if we were to ship to this city hall would still be open for residents to come and vote in person it's just the ballots that are received in the mail they might come back to city hall or be dropped off at City Hall the ones that are dropped at City Hall would then be couriered by Dakota County staff back to the county to be processed always go you put it in the mailbox it'll always go directly to Dakota it would yep but if you were to if someone didn't trust the mail and wanted to drop it off [19:40] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: at Lakeville City Hall we would receive it we would scan it in that we'd received it and then Dakota County would have a career pick that up um in other counties I've worked in they've hired staff to be that career and they that's literally their job all day is to drive to each of the cities and pick up so um in your packet I have the draft GPA I also provided a little bit of um history going back to the election data as well as the costs that we've had for absentee voting where we built the last few years um and Courtney designed that pretty flow chart that helps kind of show the chain of custody of the absentee ballot do you have questions [20:26] Councilmember John Bermel: yes that just so I was looking at the cost and trying to make sense of that so uh the jpa with Dakota County there's Dakota County share a partner sharing and we're part of that partnership before 1747 dollars but what I'm reading here on the smaller one that follows is um uh if we uh did this on our own it would be about 70 million thousand dollars yeah roughly roughly yeah more than 40 more than 41. yeah and then I had Luke's question too so if your mail went in it goes out to Dakota yeah [21:11] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: we have to bring on like 10 or 15 election judges to help us process and open and receive those ballots in that two-week period as well as five judges that are helping us in the front lobby for the in-person traffic and then we've got staff behind let's see it's trying to prep all the materials and machines equipment for the 18 precincts it's just starting to become a lot this has been a common a lot of counties across the state have operate this way um Dakota county is kind of one of the last come on boards so the clerks are are hoping that we can move forward in this direction I'll let real quickly I was one of the the kind of a task force and City [21:57] City Administrator Justin Miller: administrators Clerks School District officials on the county I was lucky to be chosen is when it's a city administrator Representatives this has gone through a couple different revisions with the county in fact as a group we all rejected the first plus that the county gave us we just didn't think it was it was that it would so they referred him to put this together um we are probably kind of at the time the County Board is planning on taking us to their status plan on taking it to the County Board the next week or two I believe um and today's what I've heard is that all the school districts in the county are on board all the cities are with the exception of Mendota Heights so far [22:43] Mayor Luke Hellier: and is that because they haven't talked about it like us um so can you explain the career process somebody obviously brings outside the 18 days they're bringing absentee ballot here then what happens what I I don't have the specifics as to how the county plans to operate but Scott County had a career and I can explain their process to you because I'm assuming Dakotas will be similar um so they hired some seasonal staff to be their careers they would go from each city to pick up the county provided a drop box for the city we already have that in place because we already aren't this is already happening [23:30] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: where people drop off their ballot at City Hall and we have to keep the mail ballot separated from the direct ballot process so those interior draw books right sorry it's not the Dropbox you're outside that you drive by and no one's watching it's right at the front desk of City Hall and there's somebody staffed at that box doing it slacked um so they would drop it in that box and then at the end of the day we open that box and we scan the barcode for each pallet to show the county or the voter because you can log into the state's Secretary of State's website and track where your ballot is at so when we scan the barcode it shows them that that ballot that's delivered to City Hall and we've received it we have it [24:16] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: um and then the next day um I have to log in and spreadsheets and track how many we accepted that day and how many I'm sending to the county and that Courier signs that sheet then that the career drives those ballots to back to Hastings and they have to confirm with these things that the number of ballots I had matches the number of ballots they have and then the county locks that barcode in so that the voter can see that now the county has received their ballot and it's safe and it'll stay there until they're going to open and receive acceptance bill and have the accounting laws changed from the state legislature so that they can the county can start counting the ballots when they receive them or do [25:02] Councilmember Dan Wolter: they how does that no the county will have to hold them up until that 18 days prior so they too have to wait until then to open and process ballots okay so they'll store them in elect facility until then um other counties though can bring in they bring in multiple trained staff at the time and they can knock that out in three days their machine where we'll bring in 10 to manually hand feed ours into a separate machine and it'll take twice as long for us to do it as them and we are still faster and at that time the County's not as busy so they're they prepare everything and test everything for us and at that point two weeks before it's go time for [25:49] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: the city so we're testing the equipment we're preparing and getting ready the counties aren't as busy so it's kind of a good time to reassess and ship that we're going back um so let's say somebody asked for an absentee is that fulfilled by the city or for the county so I had somebody asked me today you know does the county understand different precincts and send you know like oh yeah so if it's how does that processor say if you live at 11 and they accidentally say 14 like the county actually holds the the overall database for that so work as new developments come into like well I have to give them an apps and addresses so they can enter that info so somebody can register and vote and get their ballot um but yes I mean that's happening right [26:35] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: now if you do a mail if you apply for a mail ballot it first goes to the county and they verify that it's in the right County that it's sent to us through svrs to mail it out so are we taking out of that process now yeah okay um other questions Michelle I just have a comment um so this is my concern is that we have um had and we probably will still have in this next election season um residents of the county and of Lakeville that are highly monitoring the election process [27:21] Councilmember Michelle Volk: and I know that um there was some tough meetings at the county level um with residents of the county regarding Integrity of ballots Etc everything I've all you know one thing that I've always felt good about is that I never had to worry about Lakeville you know I I mean I just never have to worry about the clerks that are and the judges and our systems Etc and so now I realized that this is a huge cost savings and a huge Time Savings for um you know you folks but I'm I'm still a bit concerned that I don't know that [28:09] Councilmember Michelle Volk: we have really really um have really made those folks feel like um they've been heard and that the issues have been taken care of them yeah I disagree I think it would strengthen it because instead of those folks having to travel to each of our cities to watch us go through that process and each clerk each city has their I mean we all have to follow statue but we all have our way of processing it as well um now that's all going to be in one spot one location they can all go to Hastings and watch the Press um I mean trained staff but the same [28:54] Mayor Luke Hellier: if I maybe I um misunderstood this part at the colony level but at lakeville's level we've always made sure that our judges are coming from both parties that were evenly dispersed if I remember correctly the county just hires people and so I I just you know these are I want to do this that's but I and but the thing is is that I'm really nervous about it that we are somehow or another um just throwing the accountability somewhere else well if it I mean if it makes you feel better if you follow this [29:40] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: absentee process yeah so there are certain steps of this process along the way that have to be done by um party so when they review the envelopes and accept or reject the ballot so the signature you have to have a one from each party the county will have to do that too that's statue that's everyone has to do that I I'm just you know what I'm just putting out the concerns that I heard over the last sure um election season so and and the same thing when ballots are open to be reviewed to see you know if there's any tears or if someone accidentally filled into ovals um or maybe just asked their vote instead of filling the oval in the X's it won't be counted by the machine so [30:26] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: two judges will sit down and re fill out that ballot exactly the same way that two judges review the ballot to decide if it needs to be duplicated or not it's that's the state statute that's the process that's the same anywhere in the state of Minnesota so that's not going to change you Dakota County will be doing that too and they have been doing that and I know that when they've asked for volunteers for their absentee work in this last year they do they had sheets spreadsheets of Republican judges and dfl judges and they have to have representation from each they're very careful about that um my question that I've been talking about [31:12] Mayor Luke Hellier: since last year and was twos four and six years before that is a concern of Dakota County's inability it's a timely return results and I have said that I'm not any changes have to come with some change in the county and their accountability and so I have been hesitant to say to go in this direction because I'm just disappointed that now three Cycles in a row which included a mistake that as a candidate I had to file a lawsuit against the county to ensure that the results were verified that was in 2020. I still never got my 300 back that I was supposed to get but um I I just don't have a lot of confidence [32:00] Mayor Luke Hellier: just say that I also think that this there are some really good efficiencies here and so I know that there's the timing of 24 and 26 is their ability in the JP to just say okay we're going to agree for 20 December 31st sunsets we're going to evaluate hotline if it went poorly again then we're going to say this is this is not going to work out moving forward so is there a way to exit the agreement without having to go through a jpa process um because I and then I also need to understand this is jpa just us in the county it's not like how the dbb was so they needed to have all the members say oh you have anything so you can leave so those are legal questions that I'd like [32:47] Mayor Luke Hellier: that would make me feel more comfortable to try this out and then if it goes well then great we can keep going with it but I just I want us to have some sort of something there uh determination language says that it can be terminated without caused by the county or city effective at the ending initial term the initial term goes through um 25. [33:17] City Administrator Justin Miller: so December of 25 right so if we were to have an election in 25 which you know some school districts do that's why they have been some cities do so you can um you can cancel it at the end of the initial term about providing written notice no later than June 1st and the year prior so we'd have to give notice by June so yeah the challenge there is we would only have the presidential primer to gauge which I that wouldn't be enough of the dentist no the election would have taken place yeah 225 24. I mean to cancel it at the end of the term [34:03] Mayor Luke Hellier: which the end of the term is December 31st 2025. we'd have to give them notice no other than June 1st and a year prior in the year prior year and a half six months and the reason they're doing this is they're standing up so you know they plan on hiring um you know these two additional people I know look it went through this yeah so um I want to I want to be I want to make this work but I also want to hold another account I think the extra staff is going to help with all that up there well not only extra staff they've had changes in status well there's no [34:49] City Administrator Justin Miller: leadership up there too so we have to give them this opportunity to prove that they can do it in a timely manner accuracy has never been an issue so I want I just want to make that clear that yeah Dakota County has been Laden reporting the results but they have not been wrong that's not important themselves so the accuracy has been there [35:15] Councilmember John Bermel: and that's the problem with the these groups getting so involved is because they feel that there has that it has not been accurate I you know I'm not involved with them so I don't know their side of the story completely I just know that it was enough to get people very impassioned about as accounting before uh producing from Lakeville have been transmitted internally yeah and that was an error however this last election the statutory recounts as required right and they all came back fine right right [36:06] City Clerk Ann Orlofsky: I guess just because people complain doesn't make it right and I think we in the county have always tried to answer their questions and if you don't take the answers you know we can only provide the answers that we have and you cannot believe them but that doesn't make make their accusations any more correct well I'm not trying to fight you on it I'm just trying to make sure that I'm representing some other viewpoints that come into this for us to think about and and it is kind of concerning that we won't have enough data to determine whether or not this was a good move till another election cycle basically [36:54] Councilmember Michelle Volk: so I I do feel like the the PMP is going to be enough to get the County's feet wet um I mean if it goes horrible we're gonna know um we don't want to go forward I think we'll know after that I also think then they'll ramp up even more for the the August and then it'll give them more they'll have more experience for the general um you guys start somewhere at where the last County to start doing this I think that this is a big part two of why things are slow I think that we got to change processes and the way we're doing things right so I'm hopeful that this will help but this is the standard in every other [37:40] Councilmember Dan Wolter: Metro County accounting handles all the absentee why don't we just change the the June provision to December we could certainly prevent that feedback it's my guess is this is the jpa that it's going to be they're not going to change it just for us it's going to be standard across the entire accounting further code and then can you just tell me how the the the um counting Commissioners feel about this whole change of the situation have they been work shocked at all or so we don't have any idea what their opinion is on taking this offers accounting it goes to their board I want to say [38:25] Councilmember Michelle Volk: September 12th or something like that yeah when the meeting's here in September um I don't know if they've I don't think they've had directly talked about it in a meeting okay my guess is that the staff feels comfortable moving forward with it at this point that it had I don't think it would have gotten to this point if they didn't think it was I don't know that the concerns outweigh the benefits on this one I mean I obviously there's there's a way out if we need to take some Express interesting but the to consolidate this process to me makes sense and it's hopefully going to improve the process as we've seen it in the last couple of Elections so [39:12] Mayor Luke Hellier: I'd like I'd like to give it a go we have consensus on yeah good job yeah I think it's worth it to give it a go there's a mechanism you know if we don't it's not an ideal mechanism there's something there question about that so if we don't opt out June of 2024 we're in Forever there's another period or even 26 election and I'll need to clarify because as I read this later it says no later than June one of the prior year but then it goes parentheses the odd year and the two-year term which to me would mean 25. yeah so we'll [39:58] City Administrator Justin Miller: be you can okay if that's accurate it changes yeah that would be cool so I I would like to be able to have me here trying this and then Publix opinion on it too good I'm I mean I'm more comfortable with this out with that interpretation is accurate how many votes do you for jpa okay sorry we'll move forward with that then thanks Aaron yeah um this is a side note if you guys get any questions about the public about how elections work or what the rules are how things are supposed to operate or what the procedures are happen clock and she's the expert on it she knows all the answers she's good and she does it she [40:44] City Administrator Justin Miller: can find out so just to try to catch the misconceptions and this information out there as much as possible just shoot a question on the Anne yeah all right we we it's a 4C this is the national Community survey results and I really important for us while she's doing that I'll just add I think informed the council this is presented to the task force two weeks ago I guess um yes they had some good questions I think uh [41:28] Mayor Luke Hellier: all right mayor council uh I'm going to be presenting the community survey results um that is part of the division length update uh for 2023 the survey was sent out to 3 000 um randomly selected households of that 3 641 um households completed the survey so that's about 22 of of a response rate you can kind of see the numbers for the surveys in 2018 and 2013 along with the response rates for those and then this year we also did the open participation option um which we received 424 responses um the data in this slide deck doesn't include the open participation survey [42:13] Allyn Kuennen (Assistant City Administrator): it's going to focus on the statistically significant survey um but um I'm trying to remember if it was I think it was included in the packet where it showed the differences between the open participation at the the survey so if you have any questions about that I can answer uh this here represents the demographics of those who completed the survey um so this information was then taken and waited to like those 2020 census data um I'm gonna go through a couple um well the next several slides here are going to highlight questions that were asked in the survey um each question you'll be able to see how it was rated in 2013 2018 2023 and [43:01] Allyn Kuennen: also how the same question was asked in surveys other communities um and if we're rated similarly higher or lower than those benchmarks so what these percentages represent is the number of people that either rated these questions as good or excellent the two highest options for the question so this percentage will not include people that send or or Fair um I'll kind of go through these if you want me to pull up questions or if you want to discuss them more just me but for this one here governance overall confidence in legal government 62 that's both similar to the National benchmark a quality of life you'll also see on [43:47] Allyn Kuennen: some of these slides I'll highlight if we were higher or lower than the national Benchmark one thing the task force was more interested in that though was how we're ranking in 2023 versus 2018. so um I'm sure you're interested in that as well what we're ranked higher here that the national average is the overall image or reputation then the national Community survey breaks down the remainder of the survey in uh 10 Central facets of a community so I'll go through those like I said stop me or tell them to slow down economy overall economic health we're higher than the national Benchmark um at 85 percent of folks rating that [44:34] Allyn Kuennen: positively linkville is a place to live and the economic development are also retired [44:47] Councilmember Dan Wolter: economic impact of your family income is that how they feel that their income is gonna survey question [45:12] Allyn Kuennen: well I remember 2018 it was looking pretty good organization looked a lot better yeah so the full question is what impact if any do you think the economy will have on your family and come in the next six months okay so the 19 is the positive impact versus right yeah 80 of people in town think the last six months here yeah which is similar word all right Mobility um this category I guess is uh Link bill Lakeville is ranked much higher than on [45:58] Allyn Kuennen: the national average um traffic flow on major streets is a public parking use of traveling by car sidewalk maintenance and then this is also the only category in the entire survey where we're like ranked below the national average um and that's if someone had reduced public transportation instead of driving all right uh can you do you have that question handy yeah that's just to say they used it not necessarily to say that they want it to use it yeah or the level of experiencing it I just I just think what a challenge the 467 has had in the last years the full question asks please indicate whether or not you have done each of the following the last 12 months well there's no bus anymore yeah yeah there's only four [46:45] Councilmember Dan Wolter: minutes yeah it doesn't surprise me as we're all seniors it's all nine percent yes the people that run though it's um Community design uh higher than the national average in well-planned residential growth variety of housing options overall appearance um as you'll see in some of these questions the non-applicable as if the question wasn't considered [47:17] Allyn Kuennen: I should note that to be higher than the national average we have to be 10 percentage points higher to get that designation um and then lower is 10. so we see higher and simular but it would have it'd be have to be more than 10 exactly yeah that's a lot yeah that's a lot utilities um overall quality of utility infrastructure is higher um as well as storm water management the task force members it made her happy to know that the rest of the country was bad about their high-speed intervention incredibly affordable affordable affordable was the [48:03] Allyn Kuennen: key word there because it's pretty expensive several of the questions and safety are rated High almost all of them at least I pulled from the survey are in that 80 percent um realm or 90 and three of them are also higher than the national average um remind me again why 2018's n a for feeling safe from violent crime the question was asked but it was asked in 2013. [48:32] Councilmember Joshua Lee: oh that's weird yeah there are a couple of those decisions I think people called Poco yeah okay all right natural environment um the overall quality of the national environment is shown on that graph there similar to the national average 85 percent higher than the national average with cleanliness Water Resources recycling Parks and Rec um the exact graph shows the overall quality of Parks and Recreation opportunities 85 percent and higher than the national average was the availability of paths and walking trails [49:22] Allyn Kuennen: very health and wellness overall health and wellness opportunities came in at 84 rating positively and similar to the national average but higher than 2018. [49:37] Allyn Kuennen: education arts and culture also have quite a few that are higher than the national average um overall opportunities for Education culture and the Arts at 81 percent inclusivity and engagement residents field of connection and connection and engagement with the community 67 percent 93 uh Persona people think Lake bills think of Lakeville as a place to raise children positively think of like if that's a place to raise children um and taking care of vulnerable residents any questions on any of those Central facets of a community [50:23] Allyn Kuennen: okay then we'll go into the custom questions the first custom question was please let the area that you go to the most for each of the following activities in the packet I also provided kind of the not the raw data but more of a breakdown by ZIP code um is that something you want me to pull up or do you business okay in the packet was great so thank you so kind of nice visual I'm not sure if there's any surprises but um then the other custom question um how important if that all is it for your local government to do the following things to strengthen the sense of community [51:10] Allyn Kuennen: on Monday that was more essential only within to provide opportunities to learn about diverse perspectives including races and cultures and support neighborhood watch groups all right and then the third custom question was the open-ended question um and it asked and thinking about the overall direction that label bill is taking what one change could the city make to better Act of the interest of the community um what Poco did with this um chart here was I think all those responses and group them into these categories so I think you all received the Excel document of all the responses but um thank you [51:57] Councilmember Joshua Lee: I was disappointed in how they did this one because in the packet that they provided they only used the first response and if there were multiple responses the rest of those responses were categorized based on that first one so in terms of coding you could be missing quite a few additional data points which we can see in the response open-ended response yeah data set but I just I would have expected them to pull out every theme in each response and tally that yeah so no I understand that um in looking through some of the raw data you can see that maybe some people provided like three responses but only the first one was [52:42] Allyn Kuennen: included in this so did we do the this is the first time we did the open-ended thing because that was a recommendation of the cultivated sense of community task force so I appreciate I mean I think this is fascinating just to kind of a comment card well I like the people's mind the two highest or economic activity and development so it's like we got pulled in both directions yeah I want more restaurants yeah there should be more people no more people yeah yes worse received and all the raw data responses too you can filter through them some of the highlights of the survey [53:27] Mayor Luke Hellier: um residents continue to enjoy high quality of life in Lakeville 9 out of 10 um gave excellent a good ratings uh selectable as a place to live um safety remains strong in Lakeville and is a continued priority for residents um 80 or many aspects of lakeville's economy are on their eyes um residents are showing some concern for General affordability and the natural environment and Recreation are a bright spot for Lakeville all right then I took um the biggest differences between the 2018 survey and the 2023 survey largest increases of positive ratings opportunities to volunteer employment opportunities Lakeville awesome place to [54:14] Allyn Kuennen: live and work overall quality of business and service establishments and the vibrancy of downtown commercial area was the highest um changed positive change 19 percent the decreases because decreases cost of living traffic flow on major streets overall quality of new development quality of Code Enforcement Services availability of quality housing importance for Lakeville to focus on residents connection and engagement with their community in the coming two years and then the biggest uh decrease of positive ratings was the quality of bus or transit services Bernie you said live on the Lakeville [55:02] Councilmember Dan Wolter: place to visit wine a couple times is that intended to be where we live or as like a Visitor Bureau place to come to and visit are you talking about this one here like it was a place to visit yeah I interpret it as people coming here to to come for the day to come for an event and leave uh yeah non-resident okay yeah got it going to Lakeville for spring but then I guess that question fondant [55:48] Allyn Kuennen: you know so that's how I consider it all right that's all any questions on the community survey I thought quality of Code Enforcement was interesting there does that mean people feel oppressed or like their neighbors in bad shape is there an opportunity for additional crosstabs on this survey I believe so um yes for a cost of invest that in the past like we got cross tabs from the last survey during the all business Community task force sure what what sort of feed are you interested in the only thing I was thinking about as I was looking through [56:34] Councilmember Joshua Lee: this is how we could separate out our folks that live in single-family homes versus our town home and apartment complexes or renters versus homeowners to see if those data points are different um and how they perceive services and the quality we have that data yeah so I I can take it and put it into um basically a PDF PD I learned how I put that custom question in the packet I can filter by I think it housing type is the filter and then it will show the responses for each different how they break it down so I can get that to you all thank you [57:20] Allyn Kuennen: the only other thing that I thought was interesting is in one of the attachments it was um comparing the two surveys and in the other survey there are only five areas that are an increase and that's their engagement with Ghana and so that means to me that the people that took that survey have much higher engagement involvement they are part of our committees whatever but they also then had 14 areas that hold less or less desirable than the statistically significant version so I mean it's all the points that are highlighted yeah well and there could be more I guess I could have counted [58:06] Councilmember Michelle Volk: incorrectly but I just thought it was interesting that I guess the more involved you are more under the hood you see it the more pessimistic you are about city services that is how I interpreted them I looked at it as it was more of the activists of the community made sure that they took the survey to get their points out there which could be two well I took it as a reflection that people in social media are just more negative [Laughter] it wasn't I mean we only recording only highlighted the ones that were more than 10 or less than 10 yeah almost all of them were less than um the standard survey yeah yeah so so for me that means you know when you see the [58:52] Mayor Luke Hellier: comments on the various websites and take that with a grain of salt that's a couple people just to make sure it's not necessarily reflected in the entire company it's just an interesting dynamic between the two because it's really the only ones that were larger or more positive or more involved so it's been task force only looking at the statistical data when they're making decisions no they have all of the data they'll also have that same uh um document that kind of showed the differences between the two okay um they'll have everything and they already have it all actually it's on the website [59:38] City Administrator Justin Miller: yeah if you go out to our Envision like the website you'll see all the raw data that nobody's looking at we presented everything to them at the last meeting and then at this next meeting coming up on the 13th of September it'll be digging for that and coming up with some if they're they're revisions to the efficiently goal um goals but then also that data includes Council interviews that you get guys into Craig rad it was department head interviews survey open survey all the task force members also did their only surveys in their own communities uh economic development plan housing study I mean there's a ton of information going on right all this business survey all the way up [1:00:24] City Administrator Justin Miller: if we have those results in time we'll share that with one thing the task force is targeting a little bit when in the discussion was they thought that the comparison to the National Benchmark was helpful they were more looking for was how we should share those cities that were similar to us that took the survey unfortunately polco will get us that information they said it's proprietary but they did say how many cities took it effort it was thousands of shows yeah to give us the number of cities and also their population so I can kind of be helpful to the kind of thing this is the name of this to their website and just pull it I mean I mean I just searched National surveyor survey and you know a handful of cities [1:01:10] Allyn Kuennen: pop up so I mean you can do it the hard way all right and I know we gave them our comparable cities from a regional standpoint they said oh yeah a lot of those cities [1:01:25] Allyn Kuennen: that's a change from since Paul kobada because I know when it was just the National citizen survey and they used to list all they were sitting on their website prominently maybe they lost a person maybe but you know it's also important I think in general cities that survey themselves are usually higher achieving cities yeah you know right because you're if you know you're going to get better results you're probably not going to commission surgery yeah don't ask a question you already know the answer yeah so the fact that we're higher than the national benchmarks on so many I think and the other reason is um you know we talked about how [1:02:10] City Administrator Justin Miller: almost across the board our answer or positivities fight to 2018. and the reason that you still feel comfortable at least I do is that if we're still above the national benchmarks 2023 as opposed in 2018 that means everybody probably saw that same trend [Music] yeah when when you're the economy goes down there you're not feeling as good about anything that makes sense can you talk about timeline again just where are we at with the conversations of the task force Vision like book tests the task force will have two more meetings one in September and one in October both those meetings will focus on analyzing the data [1:02:56] City Administrator Justin Miller: um and also coming up with ideas or suggestions um if they have any or any changes to the individually Field Report so they'll meet two more times um with Craig rack staff um have you seen anything else so we'll probably come back to you in October November time questions it was okay with five in the break before we give them the versions here well it takes five minutes um we'll move on to 4D proposed well sorry we're going to find the CIP and also the budget and um Justin I just touched based on this there really is only just one change in the CIP okay um and it was one [1:03:44] Mayor Luke Hellier: item so it was the adage of the fiber optic cable cloths to some of the existing Transportation projects so it wasn't a large dollar amount even I think it's like 40 or 60 000 um so that's the only changes we're just kind of wanting to wrap up these two things together okay because the CIP is built in but with the Levine pieces and general fund transfers the funding for the CIP agents are built into that so if you don't mind I'll go into the um so we do have some key factors driving the increase this year um as you well know the transition to the full-time fire department um so we've got six full-time buyer [1:04:30] City Administrator Justin Miller: fighters in the budget um we as you know have applied for the safer Grant we don't know if that's going to happen or not so that Revenue source is not factored in here so what we're looking at is the levy covering these this first year of the transition um they're starting April 1st is what the budget includes and so um if if we get the safer Grant That's How we'll be able to reduce so let me easily by that it's roughly 700 000. [1:05:01] Finance Director Julie Stahl: so keep that in mind there's a lot of things about playing this year what's the timeline on that again pardon what's the timeline on the saber Mike they're starting to we're starting to hear that you know they're um giving word back to people and it has been uh the ones that are getting it are for retention and recruitment of firefighters um whether we were either before um recruitment yes um we've been working on the Assumption lead here in November okay so that's we've got that built in here um part of the that's also driving this obviously so we've got when we're looking at the letting increase it's sent increase over last year [1:05:47] Finance Director Julie Stahl: but three percent of that is the park Levy that was approved in November of 2021 2020. and that's a second year no there's a 20. but this is the second remember we're doing it in phases so the bonds are starting to pay back next year basically antlers this year to build Handler um so that that's the bigger driver of the increase the general fund is uh just a 5.6 increase over last year so um breaking that down on that page three of the memo um we also get our debt service is 2.25 of our 10.5 increase [1:06:34] Finance Director Julie Stahl: um so it looks like a lot and but when you're looking at the overall you see 4.174 million um the breakdown of that and you're looking at the hospital fire you're looking at three percent colas and step increases those it's always the labor pieces that drive this those in our general fund Levy um the overall attack capacity rate so now we've now that we're still a resort um recognizing some growth in the city and that helps offset this dollar amount that we're increasing so that what we're proposing it only increases that 2.6 percent um it is slightly more than last year so [1:07:19] Finance Director Julie Stahl: our last year we were at a 29.67 which was the lowest we've ever been um and so now even with this this increase we're looking at 30.4 which is still lower than what the tax capacity rate was at in 2009 which was almost 34 um so still um still well below where we've been and as if they said that the tax growth in our tax base is helping uh to absorb a lot of these costs um when we're looking at the impact on just the so for instance our median valued home it went up to 446 000 what they [1:08:06] Finance Director Julie Stahl: would see in their taxes for the city portion of that their taxes it would only be at 34 annual increase um again that's you know that tax rate just inching up a little bit that's so it's a very minor impact to individually um individual homeowners uh let's see what other things that are factored in here we did the traffic safety um or the um we have factored in the revenue from the Satan sober is that it and the brand that was put in so we're there's some things that were still that staff we um could reduce this more that we've identified that we couldn't get in here in the time frame [1:08:52] Finance Director Julie Stahl: um some we were able to put in some we are still sitting in so what we're anticipating with those additional decreases that staff said we could probably do this all it would do is help our general fund balance stay just a bit more healthier because right now the way we've got this position and the transfers out of the general fund it does take our general fund Reserve balance down to 37 still within the 40 to 50 percent range is where policy is set but again there's a lot of transfers um of general fund balance helping to fund some of these things so I'm going to get to that um age nine sorry 90s [1:09:39] Finance Director Julie Stahl: what is the so I don't understand how this Market Works what's the Big Driver in working that's comp going on is that just there's a ton of claims Statewide and so it just spreads out that um it's actually more of our own experience our own modification rate time so so let me step back since you did mention that with the word count increase and those other things that are increasing a huge portion of the budget increase is our software implementation to bsna and and the Neil government increased costs and lodges so when you look at those software increases just across the different departments it's 383 thousand dollars so it's a it's a large hit that we're [1:10:25] Councilmember Dan Wolter: taking in this year getting change over to the new software um but just remember that would have been a lot more if we had stayed with lodges yeah thank you um other key things that are driving some of the increases the fuel costs still running High contractual Services those are costing more which is what the economy and what and what we're seeing there um Arts Center does have some increased costs With The Changes application and I'm thinking that's what that is but we do have some Revenue increases from the Arts as well so those are also factored in yeah Joe's will pretty much factoring [1:11:12] Finance Director Julie Stahl: and doubling of revenues on the art center side of things with all the programming is planning so even though the expenditures are going up there's a good mentoring Revenue makes sense um so then um and just recapping tool we're not what's not reflected in these numbers um any of the other position additions that were requested from staff um and that's what I tried to show on page eight is what it would take if we were to fill any of those other positions that were requested um it's only going to increase where we would come in so for all of those if we were to add the additional police officers and the facility attendant um [1:11:58] Parks & Recreation Director Joe Masiarchin: it would increase our lobby another 2.2 percent so keeping that in mind as as you as you direct us how we want this preliminary to be presented um I'm sorry did you give a figure for the monies that you earned in the report yet on how much you estimate might go might decrease where we're but the current report is saying um I don't have the dollar total on that because some departments got their decreases in on time and some came in like on Monday before so we don't have all of the members built no that's all right I was just looking at the 2.2 thinking wondering if some of that would wash if we were too [1:12:44] Finance Director Julie Stahl: one for one for sure okay so I asked every Department to go back and just and trim off one percent on top of their request uh their initial request after I was intriguing before that so um I would say that the major ones have come in so I would put a couple hundred thousand at most okay um looking at the change in the fund balance uh top of page nine on the EF and we are looking at the um year-end estimates coming in or transfers coming in of 1.1 million and transfers to other funds going out of 2.3 million so net change [1:13:32] Councilmember Michelle Volk: in our fund balance for this year going down just 860 000. what we um we did factor into this is the public safety money we're going to get in December so we've got 3.5 million coming December 26th we put half of it um planning on that coming into the general fund to help absorb the fire department increase um the other half of it going to the equipment fund to help fund fire trucks lease cars so we still have that money money to decide how we want to handle that if it if it turns out we get the safer Grant um we could easily put all of that 3.5 Public Safety money into our equipment [1:14:19] Finance Director Julie Stahl: or the traffic but somewhere it is how are we where does that play in and how much I mean what's the engineering looking like based on what the funds are in the so if you look at the facility plan which is later on you'll see that we put about 14 million in there we put as an NX expense but we've also put 14 million dollars on the sources of funds mostly as a to be determined we know we have seven um Alan just got back estimates Friday from Architects just for design fees remember we are we already have money for a design fee um so that's can be covered but [1:15:06] Councilmember Michelle Volk: it's going to be intended 14 million dollar project most likely unless we really shave it down to the very basic so my other maybe this is not the right time to talk about it another crazy question that is are we thinking long term enough on full-time fire and knowing what our needs will be for adequate fire station and does that make sense to do it all anymore project where you do training and new fire station obviously it's going to be a much bigger price tag but then be able to apply does that make sense so next month uh the plan is to bring to you the fire facility study that Mike handled the [1:15:54] City Administrator Justin Miller: group called cnh has done that we have our draft right now we're reviewing it um just just be ready it's it's not going to be cheap I mean either either remodeling stations or building and relocating um those numbers are not in factored in here and that's it's going to be expensive to house full-time firefighters and I hate to be the person that's always rain cloud here but um if we don't get the grant for the 18 firefighters the plan is for us to get to 18 by doing six each year so if it's two percent this year to get six or as if it's two percent all value for 24 imagine it's going to be two percent 25 and 26 as well if we don't get the [1:16:41] City Administrator Justin Miller: grant so yeah I mean I guess my thought would be for us to think about how to if there's efficiencies to do you know if if the report calls for needing something different versus renovation versus new construction think about doing those projects together we could I mean it depends you know it's also station location yes bigger issue for fire stations it is for shooting range sure so we'd have to look at that as well um can you tell me if it's going to be I realize that's only proposed but [1:17:27] Mayor Luke Hellier: um for the new positions but for the police officers so it's another four um being you know proposed um is that are we looking at for a year or is that gonna slow down some um I mean if you look at the cities across across the uh across the Metro even with us adding we are still I would say in the bottom two or three in terms of a measure of officers per thousand now that's not the gold standard that's not the only way to look at how many police officers you need but if you look at it from that [1:18:12] City Administrator Justin Miller: standard we are in the bottom literally the bottom two or three even adding four I mean we're adding a thousand residents a year right so so please don't take this and the negative what I'm trying to figure out here is is that this is two or three times in a row where they end up on a separate page versus just being budgeted so I I guess I'd have to ask the rest of the council I mean if this is and we constantly add them back in do you know I mean and so I'm just wondering to the rest of the council would you prefer that they would just budget what they need or do you always want to take a look at the new position for officers [1:18:58] Councilmember Michelle Volk: if they're going to be coming up every year to be to be fair we've only done it this way maybe the last two years and that's really last year I think it's the first year because we did it before that one that's only because even without these the levees have been coming in much higher than what we've traditionally done and so I mean we I have we have added positions into the recommended preliminary library before um I just remember one other year besides last year for sure last year it goes against everything that Julie and I think about when bringing you a preliminary Levy to represent that starts up to one um it has a zero on the end so I don't know I agree so we just wanted to [1:19:45] Finance Director Julie Stahl: that's it can to your point it can still be on the table if the final comes back and we decide to change that because the 25 budget you're adding a huge you're adding two and huge parks 24 and 23 and 24 you're adding any others and you're adding going to be adding out on the next year it's going to take staff to it's going to take additional part staff to add to maintain avantly in 25. mostly most likely we're going to be coming to you probably the request for at least two new parks people to 25 this year streets and utilities are asking so the needs aren't going to get Auto upward Bangor right now [1:20:33] City Administrator Justin Miller: just suggestion but to your point let's Okay so is 10-5 or whatever the number is right let's say the final comes back A5 and we can go and say okay four officers that are in Essence no I I know that's how we've been doing it I guess what when I when I found out that it would be let's just say four offices a year I'm just trying to figure out why we wouldn't just budget for four offices a year every year instead of having to verbally make our support I guess we're verbally making our sport on the whole budget but I I don't know it's [1:21:19] Councilmember Michelle Volk: like it's like we're pitting them against the other rest of the budget and if the standard is that we are automatically going to offer I mean um going to have for office of a year then it should just be part of the regular budget it's my thought process does that make sense yeah but I think that that in itself it's departments against each other because that becomes the only Department of guaranteed increase when the whole operation is required to in the demand of our growth and check so you know I to me it is kind of an uncomfortable number but it shouldn't be a surprise here that we're we're at 10 or more [1:22:07] Councilmember Dan Wolter: um as a preliminary budget I I'm sure there are some cuts that we should be talking about but with three percent being voter driven and the other seven and a half being growth which how much percentage of growth have we seen in the last couple years to me this this is not that out of line with where we should be looking for for Budget growth um but I I think it's important to to look at every position and scrutinize every position that is proposed every year as opposed to having an automatic yes I don't well to your point I mean when we ask the voters to approvement that doesn't mean to replace the other priorities absolutely right [1:22:52] Councilmember Joshua Lee: the priorities I mean from my perspective because I was thinking that for me the struggle is the growth piece and I look at this and I go okay 24 25 26 27 and possibly even into 28 I mean it's going to be just a bunch of expensive years because of the growth I mean new parks New Roads more roads more development requires more Public Safety it requires more utilities it requires everything for me it's it's I'd like to be able to evaluate I'm not sure because I'm looking at some of these projected webbies I'm not sure there's like this I would hate to be a [1:23:37] Councilmember Joshua Lee: slave to say we have to stay under a certain percentage especially looking at we're talking about a few years here and for me all is thinking about okay what is this at what point are we where we need to be to serve the city um and at what point does the growth going to slow down so we don't need as many people we need new people we need these positions uh to keep up I mean you look at the survey of Public Safety is number one it's a fire that's police it's it's deported what 11 is it's a very important piece of for our citizens the other little nugget that's in here [1:24:24] Councilmember John Bermel: that's kind of glossed over is if you look on the typify them of the memo we're showing of 536 thousand dollar reduction in revenues so every 397 thousand dollars basically is one percent on 11. round that up to 400. so you're looking at about a one and a quarter percent reduction or increase in the levy because of reduction in revenues and this is solely tied to contract Administration that comes through the engineering department when the final plaque comes through we charge a percent or so to administer that contract we're looking at the final plots that are coming through we don't see those coming through next year there's a lot of preliminary plants that [1:25:09] City Administrator Justin Miller: have come through there's but uh final plants that have already been done and just phases that are coming in we just don't see a lot of large-scale final plants coming in next year um there's a little bit of a blip in them the system I think we budgeted for 300 single family permits next year so um you know more on that pace maybe a little bit more this year you always are a little conservative about that though actually so the question would then be you're looking at every percent at four hundred thousand dollars so either in Revenue but in theory [1:25:55] Councilmember Joshua Lee: uh I don't think this is going to happen but all of a sudden you know another explosion again we can adjust the budget and go out and hire staff if we want to interior room speaking of revenues I mean what is our ability to adjust revenues for example through the liquor store by trying to increase our margin there as a you know is that something to look at for Revenue sources because I know we're on the lower end of uh we sell a lot but that margin is on the lower end of it lead well we're looking at 25 26 percent and our peers are like a 27. so it's not [1:26:40] Councilmember Dan Wolter: a huge gap um but I know in the Auditors do that report every year they tend to highlight that for some reason because they need something they need something yeah you're going to see the liquor budget and November I believe so is it October or something so um I mean your next work session um that's always a tricky one because there's no standard about how cities report their profit margin um we considered a true business and that we charge ourselves for snow plowing you know the city crews don't go out and file the parking lots we know some cities that do that we charge all the time and staff that we I mean that we [1:27:27] City Administrator Justin Miller: can to the liquor budget so and we also price competitively in some places take advantage of that Monopoly but we can certainly when the Budget Liquor budget comes to you you'll see what our plan transfers are out we could probably talk about it at that time well when you price competitively you increase sales I know that sounds really crazy because the price is lower but it does increase the the volume so internet does a good job I mean they're consistently looking at their competitors around here making sure that it so John and Joshua are you saying that tool that you want and Michelle really to the four officers in [1:28:12] Councilmember Michelle Volk: Iowa that they were just in there yeah yeah what that's my purpose because that can just stop it or I mean this is city girls I should add I just noticed it we have two of them being hired on January 1st if we can't do that we can never turn that around so um that number would come down a little bit you know if we did a April hire or something like that your problems July oh yeah we'd work with police and see if they let how big like phase two and two I wasn't arguing against it I was just trying to help us Center ourselves on where the levy is now the the need is there and I'm sure there's [1:28:58] Mayor Luke Hellier: other positions on that list that was probably just as needed in different ways but that if that's the case I think we also then need to be comfortable but essentially double digit increase but that increase in other years doesn't feel the same as this year when it's a 34 dollar increase for the median home value to me that's a different type of message than the actual percentage because we are growing so fast that it's being distributed out to to more residents because of the services needed for those residents so I don't know well and some of the past drivers too is ever is the home value for you know personally their value when I'm substantial I think only one four [1:29:45] Councilmember John Bermel: percent on average this time so that's why if it's two years ago it was 28 or whatever and announced four minutes obviously so that's why it's also how it compares to the commercial industry right I mean they went down last year they went down yeah so now they're going yeah like this is the big joke last year that the Vikings got a tax cut on their facility um I'm comfortable with that in in the police and just I mean Preston and wise we're here Dan but the way we talked about this a year ago was this is the levy number and setting aside is the parks referendum voter approved and we obviously we have to [1:30:11] Councilmember Dan Wolter: report it as one but the way that we talked about it was too separate you know when I want to just Echo what Joshua said there I mean it's the number that's getting reported is that I mean I've got to say I looked at this and saw ten and a half percent in crotchety old taxpayer mode kicked in like where's all the fat in here and it really there really isn't anything I think this is a Bare Bones budget um it's just messaging that percentage overwhelmed by you know overlapping with the growth is is critical because they're just going to report the so I guess my thought is is that I wouldn't message a percentage I would message the dollar amount and ten dollars of that is what they already approved so it's a 24 increase with ten [1:31:18] Councilmember John Bermel: dollars of it being you know a thirty four dollar increase but ten dollars of it you already approved so we're we're requesting the other 24 dollars and 12 is a big number I can tell you though that Jilly and I talked to our peers a lot there's a lot of AIDS and nines out there in preliminary levees right now even in non-growing cities I mean Dakota County cities are all plus plus six plus eight I've got a factor in inflation inflation there's future State mandates too a lot of cities are Transit doing the same transition to full-time fire that we are um I will say I'm not I never want to tie us there's our conversation plus if there's [1:32:05] City Administrator Justin Miller: a voter approved for the schools it'll be a pretty those together will be in eye open or anything with people open their tax bill information [1:32:19] City Administrator Justin Miller: if you live in 194 or 186 one of those dishes past a huge level their biggest in history yep so I think that there's consensus from us to adjust to add those four and then phase them based on what what changes other questions or comments about I guess I was just hoping because the number um the dollar amount that went with the police also included squad cars so I was hoping we were going to be able to just kind of offset that with that other monies well uh well look at that I don't know if that's necessarily I don't think we'd be including new squads into the budget I think it's just Replacements yeah but it's a cost is I tried to show it here because it is [1:33:08] Mayor Luke Hellier: a cost one way or another we've got to pay for it well I just thought it the what two police officers get equated to needing the new one new car I guess that's how I equated that it's not bad and make sure it's okay are we is there still a big backlog on squads too do you remember Brad what the order is you just got 11 in the last month um that we ordered when and we ordered in February March of 2022. so um we're being told this loosened up a little now we haven't ordered our 2023 Squad yet I'm told we can't yet so those will probably cure this fall yet but there's a little bit of a backlog not as bad as it blows on this current quarter [1:33:55] Finance Director Julie Stahl: we just got in but so we don't retire some right away we would physically have squads to meet the demands to bring new officers and then there's a three-year backlog on ladder trucks [1:34:17] Police Chief Brad Paulson: good so the Subway on the other question is so I'm sorry I don't know what a lead facility attendant is Paul do you want to talk about that sure it's uh to help mode our facility manager with routine maintenance facilities so um strongly with um the uh our schedules for Gene maintenance or facilities so it's going to help out with uh you know anything it's like a handyman light bulb boiler issues you know just regular call All Things how much do we spend per year on or do [1:35:02] Councilmember Joshua Lee: we on contract of that and is there a savings to have does that include anything that's included and so there's a lot of things that was potentially can take off from what contractors so that will try to do those I'm on the Street Maintenance one and two what is that job does two just mean the second person or is there a level of the Personnel that you're looking at yeah so so maintenance one person that's kind of like your entry level okay your position so Parks painting inside that was the last year they uh hired or losing the budget through the field is one position for their uh for their division and it seems to work out well [1:35:50] Mayor Luke Hellier: and yeah it's kind of a apprenticeship um type of position where they can work out to the maintenance two positions that's you know has more responsibilities and those same things so this is kind of a maintenance one position it's more light duty it kind of helps out with the maintenance tasks but this is one position or uh you know falling streets or let's see a lot of CDL things just to help out in different uh situations like molding and sidewalking Industrial means those other things and the maintenance too is the full-time hot regular main Institution chainsaw operators [1:36:39] Public Works Director Paul Oehme: I don't know I guess my thought process to the rest of the council is that um you know I would like to see us try to work these people in so see what that other looks like with this yeah if by trying to trim down on other you know I realize see if we can find a balance to bring it because you know I hate for us to be so understaffed too so just so I understand so if they bring you take all of the staff in this little chart here it's the number is 12.7 probably a little bit less than that because the we're not going to hire the chief officers in January yeah a little [1:37:25] Public Works Director Paul Oehme: bit and we can probably play with the numbers on the street maintenance positions too [1:37:33] Councilmember Joshua Lee: I'd rather see it in the preliminary so if the positions are that necessary I think we need to look at what that means in other areas for budgeting purposes to trim in other ways to help manage the increase um and I'd like to see what the staff can come up with for that whether it ends up in the final budget store and like you said reducing possibly contracted Services right they're able to get more staff than they'll have to and they can be the most contracted work if that's the case on these but you know sometimes the contracted workers are [1:38:20] City Administrator Justin Miller: less expensive than us hiring within so um it really depends on that but um am I interested in going to 12.7 no I'm they always bring it in higher I know that it's going to get a little bit lower and I'm just saying if we need these people to be able to do the work that we need to figure out a way to put it all in there and still try to you know stay at a reasonable rate if you two and versatile committee these specific positions yeah we have a meeting next week so are you guys comfortable like digging deeper into a little bit and give us the recommendation [1:39:09] Councilmember Michelle Volk: you need to put this though in it's going to go at the September 5th meeting the preliminary will be adopted September 5th meeting so yep so we would have to do the 12-7 because we have [1:39:27] Councilmember Joshua Lee: well it'll just be have to be explained very thoroughly that when the paper quotes us they're quoting you know this is we're just going with the higher number yet we're still working on lowering this and that and the you know my guess is two more percent probably only gonna communicating it's probably less than ten dollars well ten percent probably it's 340 for every percent right 3.40 I mean ten percent yeah so I guess you know I mean six dollars the percent here is isn't usually that's what we always focus on is the percent [1:40:13] Mayor Luke Hellier: when you come up with the dollar that relates to it this time around the focus should be switched to the dollar the other in my mind to the other fourth numbers that tax rate be curious to see all that because it's always been a loss seriously when it gets with other communities I know obviously we don't have any control of this but because of what's happening in the homeowners insurance Market two people I mean if you if you ask for your taxes you're going to see a pretty substitution School District s alone there was a pretty good gap between us and Eagan is the lowest [1:41:00] Mayor Luke Hellier: and uh Noah against coming up around 80 percent as well so I think it would still be right down there very much tax capacity range rate that's right [1:41:15] Mayor Luke Hellier: it's a household battle Yeah [1:41:25] Mayor Luke Hellier: any other questions good thank you thank you thanks to uh Julie on our first budget yeah a little bit about our processes and everything that I know she'll be the first to complement her staff as well so um it is um oh it's a wonder to me to have the staff that actually working on this different blood pieces and feeding up because my history but I've been all working on all these budgets be able to look at it self um and work with them because they are that is a great team how are you finding working with the finance committee [1:42:10] Mayor Luke Hellier: [Laughter] it's too early to tell them we can talk our first meeting this past week so last week we had some great um suggestions or ideas I post a question to them about how as our labor force continues to get harder and harder to keep filled to some reach out to them different ideas and actually Dakota County person that had a lot of great ideas so thank you um item five items for future discussion [1:42:55] Finance Director Julie Stahl: um I have a little thing maybe I don't know um so I don't know how to say this let's see I've had it posed to me wondering if if the electric grid were to go down does that mean that water services Etc and I'm wondering if we shouldn't be just looking at the bigger picture of an emergency of what is what is lakeville's emergency plan if there is some sort of EMP you know I know these sound up apocalyptic ideas but people are very concerned about them today and so I guess I was just wondering if in the future we could add that topic to just [1:43:43] Councilmember Michelle Volk: kind of relieve our citizens to know that we do have a plan and what that plan is and how they can supplement that plan in their own households okay anything else um committee or city administrator updates been nice yeah yeah like I said my commission man didn't really mean cancels their meetings um I release mad after um was the meeting after Pana product and so there it was a very successful waffle breakfast that's all I heard so I think [1:44:28] Councilmember Dan Wolter: the changeover to doing it in-house and uh riddles on hand and everything are going to be great for the relief um and the board's been also already working on basically the next cycle and just as promised at the the last time they were here talking about what uh pension increases might look like for next year they have a conversation about the different seniors yes the the firefighters have they already go out um uh the survey is ready to go out soon um to the firefighters to kind of get a sense strop hole on what their thoughts are on the dressing schedule and that'll be going forward in future discussions [1:45:18] Councilmember Dan Wolter: so yeah more to come on then okay if not I will take a motion to adjourn second I was a fair say aye aye opposed everybody thank you