all right I'm calling the Wednesday January 25th 2023 code review task force meeting to order 5 30 PM Welcome to the New Year glad to see everyone back uh the clerk will please take role um Donna Jensen here andrewsman here Nancy neiston here Joshua's here Shelly Ward here Sarah Albright let's see Tim Hall and Steve Roush oh all right we have a quorum item one is the adoption of the agenda uh secret to staff have any changes do any task force members have changes may I have a motion to approve the adopt the agenda let's move by Donna second by Shelley all those in favor please say ionize your hand aye motion carries second order business is the approval of the minutes from the November 30th meeting uh staff any changes nothing from staff all right task force members any changes may have a motion to approve first by Donna and seconded by Godin all those in favor please say I raise your hand I I motion carries all right item three review outstanding items title 3 chapter 24 Pawn Brokers secondhand goods and precious metal dealers the city staff has an update on this thank you chair yes um we are bringing back the in-ear package you have brought we've brought back the pawn broker secondhand goods and precious metal dealers chapter 2u at the direction of the city council um there was a couple of concerns about the wording that had been changed in there specifically as a as it may affect costume jewelry or it may affect other businesses uh since that time there's also been a small addition to the uh chapter which I believe can you it's on page 17 Page 17 under 324-9 Is that real 17 out of 92 or 17 out of 92. and it's a which would require the employees within 30 days of hire or annually to reading the city code chapter and complete the City's basic knowledge assessment test and this is to replace what used to be a city conducted training and then also sorry to interrupt Michelle but on page 22 of 92 there is an addition to that the city will conduct audits once per year okay I was curious about that I know what an audit is but what are they auditing and the fact that there is an audit um I just I just felt like maybe I was missing the context of well what happens if they find that things are right we have the police department here to answer those questions perfect uh I can answer that for you yeah so the audit basically we would go into leads online the system that we use we it just randomly picks a transaction we would then meet with a manager pull that transaction and just make sure that all the information is accurate that they entered the serial number correct that the description is correct that the clerk has been trained gone through the training that we're requesting them to go through once a year and taking that test it's just to make sure that everything's matching up and that they're complying by the city code of what they need to do when they take in a Ponder or buy a pawn okay and um speaking of the training is there a certain when they take the knowledge assessment is the city recording that or do they need to print it off and keep it in their records and show you so the way it's set up right now is it's done through the city's website they take the test and then it'll automatically send an email to the investigator years and to the city as well so that we can track I think we're going to change it so that it would send an email to the store as well so that they could keep their own internal records as well but that's the way it's set up right now okay and then if you found that they had missed something what would what happens as a result of that I mean I think a lot of it is about um about you know making sure that we don't see continuous problems with the same stores or problems where they're entering stuff wrong or incorrectly describing the items or serial numbers or things like that I think if we saw continued failures of the Audits and they could have I think most of it will be teaching moments with the with the business to make sure that they're complying to the city code but if we saw continued problems with the same store over and over again then that could result in suspension or revocation or fines or some some things like that I guess thank you do members of the task force have questions about title 3 chapter 28 or General conversation on it Shelley we have one question about the language proposed back by the city it says all employees are required I'm wondering if it should read all employees and owners sometimes an owner is rather an absent owner and maybe requiring the owners to do that would actually be helpful foreign yeah we can do that um I just got the wording from the liquor ordinance so it's identical to what we did there yep yep so but we can certainly add all employees including owners could I ask a clarifying question is the intent that imagine an owner they just own it but they don't operate the business would you thought that they should um that they should understand it or just people that are doing the transactions I would think that the person who owns a business should be held accountable and fully responsible for the activities of the business not just an absentee owner I don't know if it adds value or not it is uh do other members have an opinion on the item I don't have a problem with ownership having to go through and understand if they're brand new at it you know and then they're up to date on what exactly is required if you're asking your employee to do something you should be aware of what you're asking on that part of it so you know because you're going to get somebody to push back well here's why Nancy uh I understand it if there are participating in it I'm I have no idea if they're allowed to be you know absolute they only provide the money and they hire managers who would then be the people who would need to know the rules so I I don't think we need to get real technical that if you're if you're an on hand Hands-On owner then you need to do this and if you're you know some Investment Company in Florida then you maybe don't need to do it um I don't know who to ask this to but if an if an owner is operating the business would they also be considered an employee okay all right I think I think probably that is sufficient at least in my opinion okay thanks for the question any other questions on this section okay I'm on the costume jewelry section um can you give us a page for that it's page seven of 92. thank you was the council aware that the definition of jewelry says costume jewelry is excluded and still we're uncomfortable with this section in the precious gems we did not discover that until after we went back and went we're going through the definitions with the police department okay unfortunately that was not brought up during the council Okay so we could just say we're comfortable with it as is and I agree they would have okay um the other um concern was about adding the two additional um items to the definition of second-hand goods and if that would affect new owners and so we did identify potential new um licensees that it would affect and we've reached out to them and asked them and so far we've had no comments a clarifying question on that uh am I correct to assume that the city's General position is if you notify the people and they don't comment on it that um they must agree that seems to be what they do for the City Works things the the Public Works things I I don't think that we assume that they agree that that they agree um but we hope that if they don't agree they at least let us know okay foreign well I would make a motion to approve uh three chapters 24 through uh well I guess except chapter 24 in its entirety as uh as submitted to us tonight [Music] can I get a second all right second by Shelley uh any just any further discussion on the matter okay all those in favor of approving title 3 chapter 24 as presented tonight please say hi and raise your hand hi hi all those posts please say nay and raise your hand the motion carries right that takes us [Music] to title 3 chapter 28. licensing um before the police officers leave I have a question and Title Five there's a section where it says that bomb threats are illegal to make in city code do you know if Bond threats are generally illegal notwithstanding city code so do you think that uh in your opinion if you're willing to provide it would you think that um eliminating the section and city code that says you can't make bomb threats and here's what Bond threats are is not needed because it's illegal otherwise in the state I mean it would be covered under State Statute too well generally we've been kind of eliminating things that are redundant that are covered by state statutes long as you know obviously as long as we're able to to use State Statute to prosecute something if you don't make sense place a bomb threat and you cause fear in people and causes people feel like their lives are in danger or cause Panic or you know like at a school or whatever yeah I mean that would be covered under State statutes and that's the direction we would go as far as parallel charges okay okay thank you very much appreciate it you too uh next order of business is the final review and approval of title III chapter 28 rental licensing which is included in the packet um let's see I don't so there's not a prompt I don't know if the city had any comments on it in particular [Music] I did have a question did anyone have questions about this fancy I was not at the meeting when things were discussed but it appears that the vast majority of things that are highlighted uh were mostly moved or shifted around so that it's not really substantial substantive changes I think that I think perhaps an exception is the 75 mile rule I don't know if that was in there before but we eliminated the specific counties okay now and they also added in the licensing for the manager another a question that uh that I had was on on the wording and this would be let's see find the page here yes thank you page 51 of 92. um so I had questions about this last time uh I was uh something that I had not realized I talked with um Jared about it and he clarified was that this long list so item 13 is a list of you know like 19 different things that if someone does they can be uh constitutes disorderly use I didn't catch the part where in if you go back to page 49 it says that it has to be on the license premises so if someone say has a DUI but it's just at Walmart that doesn't count and they have a DUI on the license premises then that's a then that counts and that to me I think is I like that it means it's pertinent um I was a bit um I see the wording specific on page 51 and we we took part one two crimes deleted part one or two uh because those were defined in Minnesota State Statute and we shoved it together it's a bit um rough the way it reads and something specific that I was curious about is it says narcotics drug laws which isn't a crime murders a crime assaults a crime but narcotics drug laws isn't a crime but also I was curious you know in Minnesota we've now legalized some forms of THC not derived from cannabis but the federal laws haven't changed and I was you know there's this um bridge between the two where things are still illegal federally but our state is taking action and I know right now there's pending legislation whether or not I'll make through the house and the Senate that's anyone's guess but I was curious if people had thoughts about the narcotics part or if we could clarify that somehow um because I think that we probably don't mean if you're doing weed in your apartment notwithstanding if it's like illegal smoking your apartment that that should be a reason to be evicted um do people have opinions on that I'm open to any suggestion maybe to just make it more readable as well I think that the where it says weapons also because it's not illegal if you have a permit to carry it's not illegal to have a gun but if there was some sort of weapons violation that would be a different situation so I think that you're right that there could be some cleaning up of this language okay I do agree with that and I would actually maybe ask the city to take a stab at that and bring it back I mean is THC even a narcotic that's what I was wondering I mean that's the one it's a drug but is it is it actually a narcotic if Kara was here she would know um I won't ask why no she has a small business but I I think we could clarify what is illegal drug use or something or violations of State narcotics state and federal law I mean we could clarify that in the wording I I appreciate trying to be specific about this because I imagine it's a difficult issue in real life but spelling all these things out feels um it's just a different set of difficult um you know I'm not exactly sure why these particular things were picked versus other things um so I'm guess I'm just wondering if we could uh refer to them more in general rather than you know carnal abuse wow that's kind of a open question about what that means um so I guess in the wording of it I'm wondering if we could be a little more General and refer to broader areas of uh crime if you want to call it that do you think that uh felony might be a right word or I don't know if there's well here that aren't felonies there are gross misdemeanors which are probably considered fairly serious serious also so Jared do you have an opinion on a simplifying term we could use well I think there's no there's no uh exact simplifying term for all of it I mean I don't know that you want to just specify gross misdemeanors and felonies because there are crimes you may not just think are pertinent to um having in the Crime Free Housing ordinance I don't know but we can certainly try to to tighten it up in terms of the list um I I think the question that I have is whether or not we you know we have this on the agenda for approval do we need to bring this back or do we want to just give some direction to staff to kind of tighten this section up and approve it assuming that's going to be kind of edited and tightened up by staff I'm I'm open to that I think that uh for from my consideration I'd like to see the language clarified I think that's the first concern um the second concern is I'm not I personally don't think that say drug possession alone should be a sufficient reason for someone to lose their housing um selling drugs that's a different story but that's that's my personal consideration um I don't know how much I am I don't know how much I care to fight it because I don't really suspect that the city is going to really railroad a person out of housing because they had marijuana I that doesn't seem to be the character of the city um but a baby Chris can comments no it could not be the characteristics of the city okay yeah basically what we want to say is that we don't want any uh criminal activities for why list all these things just criminal activities um just one word isn't that adequate to cover all these things or is there certain criminal activities we allow and some of them we don't allow is that kind of why you list some of them I would suggest actually going to check this out and maybe dealing with an eviction having specific lists is very helpful because the average person reading this isn't going to be a lawyer it's going to be probably somebody who owns a single unit rental family and wants to evict somebody from their property and they want to understand what qualifies I think it's very important to give both the landlord and the tenants some specifics in this case rather than referring to vague criminal statute that they have no clue where to look up and find I think that has immense value in the code okay whether we like the detail or not because or does that mean that we are listing here for the help of the plant order plant or somebody to look at that then by but by listing some of them are we excluding some other you know I don't know what is the whole list of criminal possible criminal activities that that's my that's one of my concerns I don't know if if an easy example comes to your mind Jerry that there's a really good crime we should consider including in the list well I think the the point of this is to list crimes that have an effect on others within the vicinity of where they're living so if you could think I don't know like golden said I don't have an entire list of crimes that I carry around in my head but if I can think of um think of a cyber crime or something that that it might be illegal but is this not necessarily something related to the the use of the property right so I think you you want to think about to the extent that you're gonna edit these which ones are are related to that use and which ones are not I thought the example that just popped into my head would be like credit card fraud if you committed credit card fraud that doesn't necessarily mean that that it affects the people that all that live in your building unless it was fraud fraud against them but that that type of thing I think is maybe something that wouldn't be listed in here so so it seems like it's the crimes which affect people directly in a physically you know like a credit card crime does not affect you physically but it can affect you monetarily so it's the physical part of it is what we are trying to avoid is that kind of why we list some of these I think that's partially true but embezzlement and fraud are listed and I would call those financial crimes myself um and I could understand that landlord just flat out not wanting someone who commits a bunch of crimes living in their meetings I don't know that that's that makes it legal for them to kick them out so there's processes for all of that to go through it's just this is one thing referring back to here's another documentation it also means that the property the ownership of that their lease is also Prime too this is just kind of like an adjunct to that of being able to reference back on I mean because earlier in this we refer very specifically to 609 321 through 324 uh blah blah blah so uh so maybe maybe to that end maybe we could strike the weapons Clause because that is covered by 0.7 which prohibits the amount of possession transition sale use weapon and the way you use a weapon is to assault someone generally and that's in the list probably a couple of different places okay do people have opinions on removing the clause about drug laws or amending it in a way I guess I'm wondering if we need 13 at all or if this is just a catch-all summary that is just getting us all hung up and we don't even need it Jared dealer thinking on that well it's certainly a laundry list of crimes so the question it's really a policy question do do you think that these lists are that these list of crimes are are relevant to um you know the ultimate end goal here of the Crime Free Housing policy or not and I'm not trying to put it off on you but ultimately I mean yes um as Task Force member Nation says you could you could excise the whole section and you still have a you know 13 14 15 other crimes listed um but if you think some of these are still relevant you could include them I would I think that Nancy has a good suggestion and I think that we should remove 13. because the items if I look through this list you know one is about gambling two is prostitution three is controlled substance four is alcohol five is a disordering house which is pretty vague and could mean a lot of these things noisy assemblies uh weapons and assault um Etc so I I think that we could remove 13 and still be adequately protected by the other 18 items on the list yeah I tend to agree with that that to take 13 out basically the other items here one through twelve or so this all that but not that's the same effect I think and 12 also says in like B and C she'll not engage in an act attended to facilitate illegal activity or won't allow the household to prevent the dwelling or the or the dwelling to be used to facilitate illegal activity if we're going to do that and send this back and not do a final vote on it I would propose that we edit the list a bit I don't see any Clause that prohibits forcible rape robbery I mean those are very egregious crimes against a person and I'm all for editing the language to to make some minor edits but I think we have really gone through this code quite a bit and I don't necessarily want to see it come back for another vote over something that really is not a significant or necessarily needed change could I ask a clarifying point on that um number nine says it gives two codes which prohibit assault as defined and so I don't know I wouldn't presume to know the strict definition of assault but I don't know uh Jared I'll ask you do you think that assault would include sexual assault um off the top of my head I can try to look this up now let's see but I don't know I don't know the answer to that okay I just interject on this quick BJ from the fire department sure sorry I had to join virtually I'm out of town for training but um I I can't tell who's in the room but I know we had a long discussion uh last month about this uh with PD is there anybody from the PD in the room because I I thought there were some specific reasons to keep parts of this section uh intact so I would just want to make sure that we had background from them if they're not there they have uh left for the evening here okay Shelly do you think that um would you agree that 12a that says that the household or guest will not engage in a legal activity I think that that's a blanket statement and I think that if we if we have missed an enumeration that we do care about that it would be an illegal activity and that would be sufficient maybe maybe not I mean you know there's a lot of times yeah you know you've engaged in this but then they have to prove it I really would I kind of would defer to fire chief there I think was who was on that I wasn't here for the meeting last month so I don't I don't necessarily want to see changes and have to go back but I think if we are going to make changes there that are substantive we do need to check with PD and so this would need to be re-reviewed and I don't know how strongly you and Nancy feel about that change other than the cleanup but if you feel strongly enough I think we should take the time and go through the process but if you really don't I would propose that we let the city clean it up and vote to pass it with the clerical rewarding on this hmm it's up to you or well um sure I I do think that it is worth clarifying um substance hmm perhaps it's a matter of tabbing the time to look at it make sure there are statutes in reference to for that so that that is covered in the list rather that that the statute reference that pertains versus the paragraph list so that we cover those specific categories in the statute so that there's time to verify yes this statute covers that category then that would take care of making sure everything is listed in there but not the big paragraph but it's referenced by Statute would it be overly onerous to ask if it could be cross-referenced if the city would be willing to say uh you're actually missing forcible entry I don't know I mean that would probably be what we'd have to do to find out if we're missing something um chair and members of the task force week we it sounds like it might make sense that we go go through it again and identify the statutes and match them up with some of the crimes listed in section 13 and then also have someone from PD here to explain because even if we do that there may be some that that the task force says well I still understand why we have that in the list and having someone from PD here who can explain you know the basis for that why we've had it historically I agree so we could um you know motion to table this item to the next meeting and do that work I think that would be um appropriate any disagreements I'll even make the motion for you okay make more table this until we've got the make the corrections and vote on it sure I'll second that uh all those in favor say aye aye aye motion carries okay uh so that item notwithstanding is there anything else remaining in the in the rental licensing that we'd like to work through [Music] sure could you could you uh come and sit in front of one of the microphones please and could you tell us your name for the record [Music] Condominiums and I don't know if any I don't know any of you people really damn maybe a little um I don't know if any of you own rental property or not because I do and it's a concern to me owning a property at Ridgeview when it talks about all of these things that you're talking about the not necessarily leaving in yeah tabling it I think but it says at the top of this um eviction for three violations so when in reading through this is it saying that three violations or three police calls and then the landlord has to evict that tenant that's my understanding for example um the resident shall not engage in illegal activity so does that mean that person has to do illegal activity three times before he can be evicted or before the HOA board can request that he be evicted for example if a if a tenant is caught selling drugs illegally or stealing breaking and entry or cutting the catalytic converter off a vehicle he has to be caught doing these types of things three times it would before we can require the landlord to evict that person police it depends at least as a property manager it depends on the seriousness of the crime or the activity let me rephrase that the seriousness of the activity taking place in the documentation to it I over my course of years of being at the property I've had I had one incident based on the severity of that incident that homeowner lost his home but it was based on the severity of the incident I've had other cases where it did take three times because it was a difference and it was a preponderous of the activity so in your case it would also be your um your rules you so your your bylines bylaws what are they what activities are they would be one thing looking at for a condominium use on that because mine is my lease here are my rules here's what you can and cannot if you violate these here are the consequences so part of that comes with city code is using and part of that is coming on what documents that person is signing and agreeing to abide by the other question that I have is how does the city of Burnsville know when a property becomes a rental property I'll direct that to Chris we we hope that the property owner comes forward is knowledgeable the laws and applies for a rental license but we don't always know that properties change hands all the time well at Ridgeview there's 402 units correct and there's no City control over how many rental properties there are there we can't control it it's your mylars it's the association has control over that yeah we look to the city says in that because of the fact that rental properties have to be inspected every three years you have to have a rental license so if the city is requiring a rental license of rental property why isn't the city aware of the rental properties we are aware of the ones that are licensed yeah of the people who were truthful and came forth and said I have a rental property right but those that are not doing that how does the city know and how does the city can I interject real quick Chris would it be accurate to say that someone could inform the city that there is a rental at a location and then the city could uh investigate that and make a determination whether or not it is a rental and has to be licensed absolutely okay so a lot of our uh unlicensed properties that come in are almost exclusively our police and fire department as well okay I'm sorry I didn't hear so a lot a lot of the information we get for uh properties that are unlicensed may come from police and fire department as well so if the report to a call they'll indicate that there's tenants there they didn't talk to an owner and we add that information at with that information know that we have an unlicensed rental so here's the case in point I manage a mobile home park I have homeowners and I have renters in our lease it states as a homeowner you may not rent that home if you rent that home you then violated your lease and yes I will come after you for that so it's your bylaws the association bylaws that have the greater strength in that the documentation may come from them saying we were at your property for this police call this fire call and there were persons in there and you guys are going well hey that's not the ownership Therefore your bylaws would come into play how they're written whether or not you allow rentals and if you do how many you allow and that's something your Association would have to go through as far as those rules go by we have many associations that don't permit rentals yeah and that's all up to the association and its members make that determination yes correct me if I'm wrong I think there are some associations that say up to a certain percentage of the units can be rented no more than 20 or something like that right and one of the problems with that is once a building becomes owned by a lot of rental owners they're not going to vote to get rid of the rentals and they'll a lot of times throw the majority of the building now and so exactly you're stuck with that I think that Ridgeview has police calls almost every day and a lot of it is because of the rentals and if we could only get more cooperation from the city if the city could go just to those 402 units and say I do are you owner occupied we have worked with the Association Management Group down there as early as last year on this um as you know these properties change hands all the time and we simply cannot have one person working on their full-time to try to get cooperation from the owner's donor there's too many it's very much of a dilemma and they're just trying to get some help somewhere to try to control we've had two really really bad fires caused by tenants thank you I really appreciate your time thank you thank you did you have any other concerns that you wanted to talk to this group about I'm sorry did you have any other concerns that you wanted to talk to this group about and that's in the code it's okay okay thank you thank you um are there any other remaining items on 328 we'd like to discuss before we move forward um did we take a did we take a vote on that list uh we took a vote we got the motion the second I didn't get the the vote yeah okay uh then we will proceed to item five which is questions and comments from the task force um submitted for this evening uh two City attorneys or staff have anything to add to the attached packet which is uh well empty except for one comment from the model yeah we didn't have any questions from the task force that needed outside address addressing and we did get the one comment regarding recreational bonfire permits which briefly summarized is the language should be clearer and more straightforward if someone fills out an application they should be asked to acknowledge each of the items listed on the current form rather than one box roll this way the information can sink in a little better um that's really not a code item that's more of a policy item and um I would I guess probably say that's something for the fire department are they the ones in charge of that form okay if I could just add that it's not related to this but I think there are several homeowners who happen to live right next door to me who are unaware of any uh necessary anything necessary for them to have their fire right next to their house with grass and to start from my fans so as we're discussing all of these things it's like wow it's great we have all these rules and regulations for you know bonfires and fire pits and whatever but I think that we have lots of homeowners who don't know about that so that's probably another policy thing of just when do you just stating that when do you think the code can do anything about that but if you have a chance to let the citizenry know that'd be great um I so does the I know the city does a great job in Public Communication does the city ever send out uh something like that like hey it's May it's kind of bonfire season start of it or it's the fall but I would give an example that's a little off track recently this week the city had trucks out trimming trees now a notification was come out now if it came on my water bill that's not something I'm going to see unless you bowl that bad boy out scared the heck out of my kids at home also my trees are being cut the driveway's blocked I can't get into my home and it's like okay who are you so for that being said it's how you get that information out to people so that it's not just something you see every day and recognize it because like new people you do need to remind them that hey here's the rules you come into our city or every five years I haven't had a bonfire a couple years want to have a nice little fire here as a rules for it so a little bit I know it's policy but a little way of doing it because yeah it was quite as surprised to see these big trucks all there in my driveway blocked and I'm like okay well they said they notified okay well I'll take that up with my city so here's a perfect time to say how do you do this so people do get the reminder that yes you want to be more than two feet from your house and more than two feet from your neighbors and yeah all that yeah and the City of course attempts to notify people in many different ways um like something like that maybe that's uh usually like in the springtime we do send out um some information in the Burnsville bulletin because we found that that is the single most effective way to get to our community members and so you know yes maybe the and maybe they have in the past that I never really paid that much attention put something in the Burnsville bulletin about recreational fires and those kinds of things and if they don't it's a it's a great idea to do that but um I I'm I'm not sure if if BJ's still on with us here maybe he knows oh yeah come on yeah we we communicate through social media the Burnsville bulletin um there's a number of different mediums we try to to get across to folks about uh uh recreational fires I would tell anybody that if their neighbors having one of their concerned call 911 and we'll come out and chat with the folks and educate them um when we did a survey there was no one way to to reach everybody so we try to cover a bunch of mediums and that still doesn't necessarily reach everybody so Nancy did you get that number or do you want them to repeat it let's say you're not you don't have a huge concern but maybe a slight concern that they're not aware of the information and I think you could probably um either let your neighbors know there are these rules and if you don't feel comfortable doing that there's always an anonymous way that you could submit that to the city so that we can let them know that they have girls okay good well and so that we can let them know that they have girls okay good well and in that case Matt if I can just say honestly everybody's worried about calling 911 it's confidential who called so we can't disclose that so I would encourage people to call in real time because the challenge is we get people that call us on our on our 10 digit number and if it's not happening at the time it's tough for us to track down who was there what what were they burning all that kind of stuff it's much easier if we can in real time talk to the folks so I know people are intimidated to call 9-1-1 on something that's not that big of a concern but I would encourage people to do it or unless you want to go talk to your neighbor yourself as Mac and said so I it's hard for us to go days later and chat with people so the best solution is if you chat with your neighbors and I would tell you that most of the time when we get wreck fire complaints it's less about the wreckfire and it's more of a neighborhood dispute that just boiled over because of the wreck fire so if I could add to this to a that's an ongoing conversation that the city is how do we communicate where everything Public Works to fires to you name it and you can put it everywhere and someone's still not going to read it they're not going to pay attention to it but what doesn't stop us from trying to improve at all times to get the message out in better ways that's a lot of times it's like they're talking about just tell your neighbor you know There are rules for this and the city has them and they should be pulling a permit for that fire anyways I won't be talking to them [Laughter] well then there's 911. okay well let's jump into title four and five then assuming there's no further questions um as is our traditional kind of take a page by page I think there's probably going to be a bunch of pages that we're just going to skip because they were all deletions but um I did see that looks like there was a suggestion on so on page 60 of 92 Nancy had a suggestion that I think was just put in place so I don't think probably any real uh questions there um so I would say perhaps we jump all the way to page 68 of 92 which is swimming pools there are no objections okay [Music] uh piping called Reserve um you know so oh okay we don't regulate that is that kind of what he says or yeah what is the in parentheses Reserve uh headings for so as you've seen when you come along some of the codes there then the code for that has been removed but the chapter titles had been reserved in most of these situations we're removing them completely now so just because they say reserve there was no code underneath that it was just the the chapter title was reserved for future code as if needed and in most cases we're going to ask you to remove those at this point so for example go to page 61 of 92 on the top it says chapter 42 4-2 plumbing and gas piping reserved that is being recommended to be removed or chapter 4-3 heating code reserved again makes sense so so what does you know I'm used to these kind of chords here and we usually see the code so uh there's no at this point are you saying that plumbing and gas piping there's no code no not for us there's no language no city code right this is not city code okay so because it's further down it says that we are using uh Minnesota building code right that's why we don't need it because we use the state code not we don't need a city code okay it's the first sentence on page 59. so basically this is almost like saying uh that these things are superseded by City core but we just didn't take this out because in future if you want to add that it's a placeholder it was it was a pleasure they left a placeholder in there where it used to be okay and we're saying we don't need that placeholder anymore we're gonna we think we should remove it yep and we're if I'm interpreting this right we're going to remove chapters two three four and five it looks like completely and we go right from the building code to swimming pool regulations because it's not okay so uh do people have questions on swimming pool regulations Nancy made a comment that wanted more specificity on what the fees would be for yeah just says fees shall be established uh and now it says for building permits but I'm guessing that it's for um building a swimming pool building permit piece which is a building permit all right okay so we have fees established instead of it's just old journalism training don't just say peace when I mean all right I'm good we don't we don't charge people to swim in their backyard yeah okay um am I correct that uh so on page 69 it says prefabricated swimming pool so that's referring to the prefabricated it has to be made of molded polymeric or fabric walls so if someone has a prefab pool made out of concrete for example that would be a prefab tool it could be anything it would it could be anything as long as it falls under certain parts of the building code or plumbing code so I think what I'm confused by is the definition of prefabricated says describes the materials that are in it so if I made it out of any other material not listed there it wouldn't be a prefabricated tool where do you see that on the definitions on page 68 of 92. otherwise it's swimming pool right which does require a permit right so basically they're saying you don't need a permit if it's of this type I'm losing my definition is I'm sorry 68 the next page yeah so I'm just confused by the definition okay could you tell me what a molded polymeric is what you buy the it's the Kitty pools you see the plastic kiddie pools in people's yards that's what that is they're pre-molded and you go pick them up in shape they hold their shape if they call them storable originally you keep them in your garage in the winter even that some that are of a type like a tarf style that's also the type of clasp that's easy okay so any plastic okay that would be okay so to be pedantic if it was made out of concrete it's just cool then okay well it would it specifically says here something that is designed to be storage stored readily disassembled or and then reassembled to its original integrity there's many different types of concrete and there's some lightweight concrete that's very very lightweight it's very porous right like a um stones that like a pumice stone or something as an example probably so I have to be open to all of those uh prefabricated not just thank you I have to campus can't be just for the Plastics that have to be for the concrete and the steels um the next time I see comments in depth are page 71 um comment we have no delegation uh we have four authority of authority to regulate operational public pools um I see something stricken um we have yeah I see that I guess repeated multiple times that we can't regulate public pools except for Construction then I think there's a a comment at the bottom about so I think there's that Nancy makes the question about the date May 31st through September 1 and then a follow-up question is that even valid anymore so should the date be removed from this text um I I think that next question related to chapter 1305 rather than that I was just confused about the need for specific dates requiring people to have their backyard pool operating on May 31st even if it's we're just talking about the prefabricated ones is that right no no no preparation requirements I would think we would especially be talking about in-ground which is what I call them [Music] um again my question is if it's just you don't want people's filtration systems to break down and then you have an algae pond in someone's backyard but um it's requiring these particular dates just seems a funny way to do that but usually operate Memorial to Labor Day but at least for a lot of properties right I'm thinking a different neighbor has a pool right behind me and they don't always get it ready until June you know and I'm thinking wow are they in violation this just because they don't open it up and swim in it until later in the summer so I'm not going to turn them in but I think that it is are we talking private homeowners here I think we are because it says all pools we have a lot of problems with pools that they've been abandoned they're not in use during an extended period um maintain they're not maintained they become safety hazards we don't have fences up around them um you know a cover is not considered a barrier and unfortunately I'm terrified we're going to have a kid floating in one one of these days um and they do become nuisances whether people stagnant water mosquito breeding areas it is a problem but our dates of operation the way to I think they're pretty consistent around that I think that I I think they're pretty consistent I don't know if any of you jumped in a lake on a week before Memorial Day it is real comfortable and uh but it but during that time frame I'd say 98 are we going to go out there in June 1st that somebody's pulling that operation no this is just uh right now I think more of a guideline that we want to keep that water circulated we want to keep keep them maintained we want to make sure your fences are in good shape and you're taking care of your pools would it be sufficient to say all pools and their filtration pumping units shall be maintained I mean because if they don't run them it's like they're not going to be maintained but you could have someone that just not running it because they don't want to run it so is that in service covering the fact that you're utilizing it as well as maintaining it in good condition they'll be in-service and maintained yeah it's hard to say in-service in the winter so it I mean the intent here is that it's open and running in the summer right correct during what is generally considered to be the season in our climate there you go obviously if we had a snowstorm in in May and it was still frozen we probably wouldn't enforce that okay we also had incidents where some multi-family housing have have pools for their residents and then maybe because they're uh poor property manager there they're not opening the pool for the summer when it's supposed to be part of the amenity of the complex but those are that's not the point of this is it though those are considered public pools and we have no authority to regular public pool the homeowners association would that be a public pool if the if there's a homeowner's association involved group of town homes or is that a private yes probably okay thank you sorry chair members of the task force I think um we do need a point of clarification here I it's not designed the sentence is not met to make someone open up their pool for the summer and as it's written it kind of says that so I think there should be an edit all pools under filtration pumping units shall only be in service and maintained through May 31st through September 1st but that would mean that that would be the inverse that they had to close it down exactly September 1st and they couldn't open it May 15th and I think that if we say it has to be maintained period because the winter maintenance is well I'm not using it so there's nothing to do until I start using it again and if you're running in the summer and you don't maintain it my neighbor has a pool it'll break down it won't be maintained so if you're not running your pumps they're going to fail they won't be maintained I think the maintenance Point alone is sufficient to carry I think we have uh alternate methods if we have a private pool owner who's either abandons his pool or does it maintain it we find out that we have the start of an Ice Pond in November that we could probably address that issue we again if you're like I assume the city isn't going out and doing something because someone opened it on the May 15th or they uh you know closed it August 15th or something um so I'm it's not a huge deal I just thought it was kind of an odd way to put in a rule but I no I I think you're right Nancy I don't think that uh I think there's a better way to word this and accomplish the purpose so I'll suggest again if if the language only said all pools and their filtration pumping units shall be maintained period would that be sufficient to say that you have to keep it maintained I'd like to see maintain the defined if you were going to go that near that broad because you know if you've got four inches of water in it are you maintaining it you have a toddler you want a toddler pool now all of a sudden well it is defined actually it's defined at the very beginning as it says all pools have been maintained in a proper state of repair and operated according to the manufacturer's printed operating instructions so perhaps that entire sentence is redundant because it already says it must be maintained and operated according to the correct instructions I have a question um so if somebody doesn't open their pool for a particular summer they leave it closed have they maintained their pool if it's been properly closed I assume it has been that'd be my assumption as well if they maintain it during the summer months because now you have a thought out Pond that if you don't keep some kind of chemicals in there you're going to go to scum they're going to get algae growth you're going to get things on that part of it just because if that water's sitting there and it falls out yes that has happened right I'm just saying because I know from years of experience that we've never with a certain main we've never had a green pool because it's been properly maintained that includes before the freeze and that includes once that water starts to thaw that you do have to do you maybe not test it but chemically you do have to support it to keep it from turning into the algae Pond I think the first two sentences are sufficient all pools must be maintained in a proper state of repair and operated following the manufacturer's printed operating instructions During the period of pool is not an operation it must be closed and maintained in Appliance with the manufacturer's printed operating instructions so by my reading of that there is no point in which a person is allowed to not have it in a maintained state and that is obviously contextual based on the season if it's the winter it's empty and if it's the summer it's not an algae pond so what what you mean is emptying emptying the pool is adequate to avoid no it depends some pools you can actually completely empty most you can't um cannot because of damage property that did and she popped her out of the ground so you do have to leave some water in that pool yeah keep it down yeah yes majority of them I I'd say 99 of them you're going to have to leave some water in there and but since we're saying maintained again if they cite the pool's not open for the summer they're still obligated to keep it not an algae pond because we say it has to be maintained it has to be in a proper state of repair all right well I'll ask this in the negative do you how many disagreements with that Chris I mean because I have a very narrow view up here so you actually work with it I do not okay all right fancy just to get technical uh does everyone's pool manufacturer provide printed operating instructions they're supposed to are they I would have no idea I don't know the you know pools are us puts in yeah pool in your backyard do they have something in writing for how to maintain all the equipment has very detailed information of how to maintain that system okay whether it's built on site the the equipment is still has the instructions of what to do okay maybe we can remove the word printed because we know now that a lot of these things are digital yeah we have a good idea Josh is there a delineation uh between public and private because you see the Minnesota Department of Health which is going to drive majority of all this for both yes is it the Minnesota Department of Health that takes care of all public does the city get into does the city start to override any or fill in some of the gaps of the four public tie in as we do look at it for building code purposes there's Plumbing electrical and sometimes HVAC equipment that's a type that that we look at from the city Side that's but I have that in in our codes in the State Minnesota State Building Codes it falls under those tools and food pools and lodging yeah sure yeah they also do the engineering for public pools Doh yep yeah yeah okay and then with private it just falls under construction requirements under the building code so building code May mean Electrical Plumbing HVAC building and then just making sure we don't compromise structures a lot of people want to build a pool within their house or outside of their house we just want to make sure that when they're Excavating they don't compromise their structure at the same time is there any objection or I'll say would people support the deletion of the sentence all pools and their filtration pumpkins shall be in service and maintained from May 31st to September 1st so people support the removal of that sentence as a way to clarify okay I have no objection to it okay all right I think we'll call that a consensus but I'm not hearing a strong opposition okay uh that I believe takes us to uh page 72 and I I don't know if there's anything left in pools I think we're on to official Maps let me see and Nancy had a question about the definitions and moving it before the purpose I didn't know what an official map was and we dive into the purpose of it and I didn't know what it was so I wondered if first and the purpose second but it might be the only one who didn't know what it was uh I think Regina you deal with zoning right is that I do how does the city declare you know this is an official map that's a great question I think I might defer to Jared on that there's reference to in some sections of title 10 the zoning code that reference the zoning map as a zoning official map and then there's this section of title IV that talks about official map and this was adopted it looks like in 2005 and they're looking back at some of the history it looks like the city used this as a way to bring in kind of small areas of the city and propose some um future changes to some city streets which they anticipated to come through at some point so that people were aware that future roadways would come through but it is a way to recognize basically future roadways and future expansion of our their transportation plan um it's allowed through State Statute or is it required through State Statute through the Minnesota Planning act um I think Jared had some comments in the um in the sidebar stating that maybe this is better to be located within our zoning code or maybe even our subdivision section of the city code so after Consulting with our City attorney idea is when we get to that chapter and title 10 when the Planning Commission reviews that that that's something that will be transitioned over to that section just makes more sense to be in that area so cool I'd like to propose that Nancy's right though and you put the definition first the definition because the Planning Commission needs to host a public hearing for any amendments to title 10 and city council makes those approval it'll have to work its way through that process if there is agreement to remove it and place it in title 10 or 11. sure we could switch the definition first and this go around and then when it migrates over to title 10 it's all ready to go I like that I like that [Music] um I think that takes us to the fire prevention code five chapter five one two and that is Page seven six and maybe two we still have as a BJ on the phone yes okay um I had a question about um 511 B2 and it's fuel storage prohibited no personal shall store or use any fuel barbecue torch or other similar heating or lighting chemical or device and the locations designated in the previous section P1 I'm slightly confused by that when you say you can't store any barbecue does that mean the ribs have to go inside but also when you say other similar heating like would that be like a George Foreman grill you can't have that outside on the that that's my actual question um I don't know what barbecue means in this case that's a weird definition but when you say similar Heating do you mean by combustion or if someone has an electric skillet they can't have those on a balcony right so people can't have a propane grill on a balcony um or you know something of similar to chemical or or oh any type of similar heating right so if someone plugs in an electric griddle out there that's fine okay ah but this this is specific to uh anything three or more dwelling units so we're talking about that have a common hallway so they're not Town Homes right we're talking about really Apartments um or quad homes that have a common hallway um and then they can't use something of that type of heating on the deck or inside the building in any case so does that include charcoal yep yep grilling yep former grilling any type of combustion yep do you think that it would make sense to clarify combustion because I and now I now I'll be serious uh what do we mean by barbecue shall not use any fuel barbecue or torch a barbecue grill right underneath there you enter number three it says gas-fired barbecue grills okay um so this would be some this would be like a propane fired barbecue grill so maybe it should just say barbecue grill right yeah that was what I was gonna say I think Andrew's right the word barbecue yeah that versus it looks like a word was missing there and we just need to make sure that we keep the fire or because we also can't have people having fire tables on apartment decks either so this this really is to any type of open flame on a multi-family dwelling okay no tiki torches right well would that actually be prohibited when it says lighting chemical I assume that meant not illumination but to start something on fire use of fuel so any fuel burning would be a torch yeah so tiki torches would be okay not alone okay chair oh I'm so sorry I I've been walking this way uh do we have any instances where we have fire sprinkler out on patios I've seen certain complexes that were more than three and they had patios out on the deck you know decks and patios above grade on grade what have you but they each had a sprinkler from above that was allowing them to justify to be able to have each tenant have their barbecue their charcoal their gas grill and I thought that that was the most craziest design that I've ever seen I would I wouldn't want to live there to open something up like that so do we have our situations I'm sorry I thought you were done well do we have any situations like that in Burnsville so we have a handful of apartment complexes that do have uh sprinkler heads out on the balconies because they've been built recently enough where they're required uh but we still do not allow grills out there the only exception to that is in in sub 3 about listed gas or electric grills that are permanently mounted and are essentially meant for that okay they're self-contained right so they don't they don't have the issues that the open combustion ones do but we don't we don't have an exception that because it's sprinkler we allow them we don't do that in Burnsville because lots of times you're trading off the sprinkler system and allowing combustible siding things like that and it's just because you have one sprinkler head doesn't keep it from being a catastrophe exactly that's a great piece of mind yeah everything else around is combustible yep thank you all right so if we as we progress through onto page 77 I'm not seeing anything that stands out there um I guess there's a question this appeal process is different than the other code section should a few things to be consistent so BJ maybe this is something that Eric and I noticed that the appeal process in this it basically says that the first point of appeal is to go to the fire chief and have them re-uh consider reconsider um but we were wondering if you would prefer that this go through our normal appeal process let me check on that I there's a piece to this that I think is fire code reference so let me double check on that but if it uh if it's not prescriptive in the fire code and how we have to adopt this then yeah I would prefer to follow what we're already doing all right so we'll research that and come back to you uh so if we progress to page 78 and 79 I'm not seeing anything there and I don't see anything substantive until perhaps page 83. [Applause] I'll pause for a second does anyone have comments or questions before page 83. [Music] okay Nancy had a good question magazine yields means a building or structure is there another term that can be used I'll have to do some research but I assume that comes out of the the fire code and what they consider where their housing the um the substance so where the explosive substance is being held so indeed magazine means a building that is that is an appropriate term for a story explosives yes how to help their definition that comes up and then or for arms ammunition explosives and Provisions for use in military operations okay now we know uh then there was a question about railway and it appears that let's see Railway is defined as such only if passengers are carried I don't know the background behind that one but I don't know why we wouldn't say passengers are Goods or something like that and or Goods because I would think that the staff on cargo trains might not want to be exposed to yeah explosive Etc but maybe it is allowed because otherwise they I don't know they may have to actually transported separate from we may want to double check that one just because the how close the rail line we have in town is to the Quarry where they do blasts so uh we can look up that one as well okay just to make sure that we're covering this correctly actually I'm not seeing Railway mentioned otherwise in the document it's just a long turn so perhaps we don't need to understand okay uh page 84 and 85 um the city clerk does not issue these who does talking about permits that should get changed to fire chief or designee okay I missed that one I think Nancy has a very interesting point about I'm sure how convictions of moral turpitude would disallow permits for explosives I know that and and 10 years that seems to be the highest one that I recall seeing you can sell I'll call a lot quicker I think for alcohol addiction you can't get a permit which I don't know someone had it in for alcohol I looked I I had to look it up because when I saw your comment and by definition I'm very much in support of it it's um I don't know if you did you look up the definition of memorial uh no I feel like I know it well enough it's a legal concept and uh it's an actor behavior that Gravely violates a sentiment or accepted standard of the community so if the community has a standard I know it's been used against gay people a lot I can see where that would be why that's antenna got it um do you believe that it's a discriminatory comment against well I just don't I I honestly don't understand what that has to do with a with a permit for explosives or that you were treated for alcohol addiction eight years ago and somehow you can't so it's a 10 Years Part Two that's a problem it's the it's the content of the things that uh keep you from getting this and the length of time I can see that if you had a conviction for bombing a building or something that that totally makes sense um so I I would just tell you from my perspective the I don't have a ton of background with this but just thinking through this we're talking about commercial explosives and we're talking significant commercial explosives is that we don't want anybody that could be potentially unstable or wanting to do harm with those um to have access to them so I think that's the length of time and why some of these have been chosen could you give me some context on the city of Burnsville do we have a lot of explosive licensed people uh no we have one plus the fireworks vendors so I mean there's one that's commercial that that blasts multiple times a week so um and and is that licensed for the individual or the business uh I will have to check I I think it may be both to be quite honest I think the State Fire Marshal does part of it and then we get to do part of it as well so okay I noticed that it says the council shall deny the issuance to do all of these permits have to go to council for approval I don't think so that's where I gotta I gotta now that we're digging into this I unfortunately farmers are going to be here we had a fire tonight he would notice off the back of his hand so I uh okay you need to pick his brain on this all right so we'll have to come back with me okay okay so I think the discussion still on the table is um what discriminatory criteria do we want for people to not get explosives permits I don't know if I have a strong opinion I mean we other than any other time I've had a strong opinion for moral reasons but well I think one of the things this task force was charged with was removing discriminatory language and one member has already caught the wording at least of moral turpitude has been used against homosexuals in the past and so we probably would like to consider other language um in that case I don't know I would look to counsel or the city to maybe the fire marshal to work together to propose appropriate language to replace moral turpitude at a minimum I think the stability of character comments raised by the fire chief makes sense and since it's not something that the average person is likely to experience applying for that I don't think it's onerous for the other requirements for what it's worth I will just register that uh requiring someone 10 years after treatment is a long time and so anyway just gonna put that out there I think you're right I think it is a very long time this seems to be the longest discriminatory discrimination I've seen I think that to Parrot the arguments previously we have fireworks vendors and one licensee um it doesn't appear that people are knocking down the doors to be explosively licensed if they are why uh Jared do you have an opinion on the phrase moral turpitude is that a is that a legal term or is that a term of art that perhaps is antiquated well it both perhaps [Laughter] you know it does show up in a lot of city codes I I certainly understand the the concern about how it's been used in the past historically I also understand the concern about you know the vagueness of it too um so we can you know I guess the question is and maybe this is something uh staff just needs to revisit is what particular kind of going back to the same question we had with Crime Free Housing you know what particular crimes are we really worried about well what are indicative of um you know the red flag is a danger for someone who's licensed and I don't know if it's it's you know all felonies or a subset of felonies or subset of gross misdemeanors and then of course you know you know raise a good point about 10 years for you know drug convictions or drug addictions whether that's you know far too long and so I don't know that we can sit here and solve all this we may have to regroup at a staff level and come back with a recommendation um DJ can you tell me I assume that it's more than just Burnsville saying you can have explosives to allow people to have explosives right it's a it's um I think ours is somewhat specific given the uh uh the Quarry uh to some extent and uh the Fire Marshal's Office does do some licensing of of explosives so yeah I I think we're in a bit of a unique situation on this so and it's frankly also regulated federally a little bit by ATF and um um by the BCA in the state so there's a lot of moving parts to this whether you're talking about the substance the person the company the transportation all that kind of stuff so uh ours is a bit more focused on the use within the City versus the transportation and the education all that kind of stuff I wonder if there is a I would imagine there has to be some sort of similar discrimination at the state level where they would say this person is not uh responsible enough to have a permit to have acquire and use explosives and maybe we could glean something from that I was honestly I was trying to find it uh after we're done a rental housing before we got to this topic and I on the State Fire Marshals website I can't find anything like that but I'll we'll do some more checking so okay well I I'm thinking maybe the consensus says we have the city do some research and get back to us and okay uh Dan's got a comment about is the 25 fee correct it just feels useless yeah so many years in the last 20 years plus so this is a big commercial permit I think we could get more out of them or just leave it see whatever the fee structure is at the time all the fees are in the fee schedule so okay foreign all right uh that takes us to page 86. [Music] um and it looks like this is just noted that written or electronic was added Shelley uh in a bound book I'll tell you how long ago that was looked at I have a lot of those bound books in this building so so if we go to I guess recreational burning then is the next section and I'm not seeing any comments other than when we get to uh fire protection so anything on recreational burning that we'd like to discuss Havoc with my allergies explosives still probably unlicensed no less good price okay so fire protection Water Supplies there's a question on 553 inspection our inspections of fire hydrants really done annually yes yes okay are they mine are my Park is okay yep mine are done I think twice a year so the the city on just a point of reference for everybody is the city uh flushes the um the uh public hydrants twice a year and make sure they're inspected at least once a year but a little uniqueness to Burnsville is anything that's not on the public right-of-way so all of our apartment complexes are larger commercial have private water systems and the property owner actually owns the fire hydrant and the water main underneath it to where it connects to the city and it's important uh that that those hydrants are exercised at least once a year as well when they tell you a decade ago we were having close to 20 failure rate on our private fire hydrants at our highest risk apartment buildings so this is a program that we put in the last decade to make sure that those all get done and the wording down below allows people to opt into a city programmer to hire their own depending on however they want to go about meeting the requirements but it's it's definitely improved the reliability of our water system and our fire hydrants a clarifying question on that so I live on a cul-de-sac there's a fire hydrant um in my yard um but I think you said because I'm on the I it's on the public right away then it's a public fire hydrant and not a private fire hydrant that's correct it's more when you get into bigger properties where the fire hydrant isn't right on the roadway okay as soon as you get off the public roadway and the private roads or parking lots things like that um those are all private fire hydrants and uh homeowners aren't assessed for public uh hydrant pair right other than just generally taxes correct yeah and you're just um you pay through your water bill for that to be done right that's it's a standalone service essentially through the city as an Enterprise fund um the only other thing I would add to that is it could be a single family home if it was an association so we do have some of these that are single family or Twin Homes that are private roads so there there are a few of those circumstances as well gotcha any other questions on the Romania statutes so starting fuels I saw can you give us a page number yep absolutely age 88 underneath starter fuels okay the last sentence says propane gas torches or other clean burning devices causing minimal pollution must be used to start an open fire that you know I'm sure we all get what they're trying to say there but perhaps instead of saying that just saying devices that cause minimal pollution can be used or something to that nature versus it making it sound like that's how you have to start your fire yeah I can come May is probably more appropriate than a musk there what's that [Music] we're having technical difficulties [Laughter] great no presentations um okay so is that a change then okay how do we change it less to me uh and I actually I had a related question and it's uh it's back in the recreational Fire part and it's see if I can find the page rules adopted by reference let's see it is five it's five four and five four nine right here oh yep okay so it says that it must be ignited with an improved starter fluid what is an approved starter fluid not your kerosene can a can of gasoline okay I mean should that be clarified because in my mind if it burns it works right it seems like the intent is to have not too much smoke so shouldn't we just say that starting the fire for involved it deals that doesn't make too much smoke I would say in addition to smoke we're also worried about people dumping gasoline and things like that on there to get a fair amount of people doing things like that okay okay do you think it'd be helpful to clarify I mean maybe it's not but clarify what approved starter chair and the members of the task force I think Carter because we have it defined up in the definitions that's right my apologies just change it to starter fuels instead of starter fluids okay perfect all right [Laughter] all right well uh in record time we went through a lot so thanks everyone just because you brought this up earlier in the this evening okay bottom of page 86 top of page 87 bomb threats oh yes right can we eliminate the information on uh bomb threats five three Tim as uh superfluous as it's in state statute and that's how they said they'd prosecuted they're not going to bring a city civil thing I'm going to send you to jail is that a motion uh if we want one but I think probably consensus is I'm hoping strong enough I'm not seeing any disagreements I'm having I'm ambivalent okay then let's strike bomb threats [Music] all right uh so miscellaneous items the next code reviews three task force meeting would be February 22nd 5 30 p.m here in the council chambers meetings will typically be held on the last Wednesday night of the month our homework distributes title VI police regulations um staff suggested edits will be emailed to us soon and comments will be due by February 8th excellent I've got to I just got those today for my review and as soon as I'm done with them they'll go out perfect all right perfect um I think that's it if there's no other common questions all right Nancy just noticing it isn't an issue for me but the next meeting is on Ash Wednesday if anyone can't be available from 5 30 7 30 because of that but February 20 seconds there is no statutory requirement all right um for that there is if it's like election day but not for not for any holidays um for Ash Wednesday Jared I'm not aware of anything those who do that if uh if this body has some preference to change the schedule due to that then let's okay it works for me it works for me it's fine with me all right meeting is adjourned thank you everyone