good evening ladies and gentlemen it is now 5 30 and i will call this regular meeting of the burnsville city council to order it is our tradition to stand for a moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance we invite you to join us i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all will the clerk note that all council members are present uh we we continue to look at how we find creative solutions during this global pandemic and so tonight our meeting is being conducted in person all of our city council members and staff are in the council chambers and practicing social distance members of the public may attend in person if they like members of the public may also watch this meeting online at burnsvillemn.gov meetings or comcast channel 16 or 8 59. if you would like to participate during the meeting remotely you may call 651 372-8299 or join the meeting online at zoom dot us slash join more information is available on the on our meetings web page and in the council agenda packet the next item on the agenda is announcements our announcements have to do with all of our upcoming meetings we have scheduled upcoming meetings regular council meetings are for tuesday september 8th at 5 30 pm and tuesday september 22nd at 5 30 pm we have a special work session scheduled for tuesday august 25th at 5 30 p.m and a work session scheduled for tuesday september 15th at 5 30 pm the next item on the agenda is citizens comments this is the opportunity for anyone in the audience to address a council on an item that is not on the printed agenda and not an application form that will be coming before us at a future date okay seeing no one we will move on the next item is additions to the final agenda and this is for emergency items only miss muscali no matter mayor members of the council okay thank you we now move on to the consent agenda the consent agenda is a group of items that's considered to be routine and will be enacted by one motion however an item on a consent agenda can be removed for a separate discussion and vote is there anyone in the audience who wishes an item to be removed from the consent agenda for a separate discussion and vote ms muscoli no matter mayor thank you members of the council may i have a motion to adopt please second there's a motion and a second all in favor please say aye aye aye opposed nay and the motion carries thank you uh we now move on to the regular agenda and the first item on the regular agenda is a public hearing and this is a resolution to adopt the continued 2019 street improvement assessments and presenting miss uh desert our city engineer thank you mayor council members um this is a holdover from last year at the meeting for the 2019 public improvements for special assessments accounts we've requested the staff requested that you continue one property because there was some issues with a contractor error that led to some damage for the property over the past year staff has been working with the the insurance and the contractors and everything seems to be almost resolved except for the matter of the deductible um a thousand dollar deductible is in our hands right now we will release it to the homeowner should uh the insurance company not um so the they could use that to pay towards their assessment or or for whatever they'd like so we think that uh everything is resolved and i don't believe that the homeowner had planned to come today they did not um issue any objection to levine assessment tonight so they they're happy with the outcome i think as happy as one could be okay any questions for miss dejrud okay thank you this is a public hearing i will open a public hearing is there anyone who wishes to speak to this item anyone who wishes to speak to this item seeing no one i will close a public hearing may i have a motion to adopt please council member workman makes a motion second by council member keely all in paper please say aye aye aye opposed nay and the motion carries thank you the next item is also a public hearing and this is to approve a 3 2 off sale liquor license for quick trip uh inc doing business as quick trip number 585 and presenting this evening is our city clerk ms collins thank you madam mayor um yes this is a quick quick trips application for their new location they also have a location over on crystal lake road west they have had that location there with the liquor license as well since 1995 and there have been no issues their new location is set to open on september 10th investigation was not necessary for the manager of this location because they it was the same manager that came from the other location to manage same with the investigation of the officers was not necessary because same officers were involved the reviews have been conducted from the planning and building department and everything is in order the application is also in order and the fees have been paid staff finds no reason to deny the application we did receive a phone call that the council received regarding a complaint about having a liquor license so close to crosstown liquor and we both know um we know that they're not the exact same type of liquor license but um this is a public hearing elliot is here from quick trip if you have any questions otherwise i stand for any questions any questions for miss collins no and i'm i understand the residence who was opposed to granting this liquor license but she's not aware that this is very different from a liquor store and this is 32 percent off sale so it's not as if we're looking at apples for apples and the other thing is that this is something that we do and there is no reason to deny okay this is the public hearing is there anyone i open the public hearing is there anyone who wishes to speak to this item anyone who wishes to speak to this item seeing no one i will close the public hearing members of the council um i need a motion to approve i still move second okay councilmember schultz makes a motion second by council member said all in favor please say aye aye opposing a and the motion carries thank you the next item on the agenda is a discussion item uh this is an accessory dwelling unit ordinance check-in and miss regina d now assistant community development director is presenting miss dean good evening mayor members of the council um the apple i'm sorry not the applicant but the property owner which sparked this conversation tonight is um in the lobby so i'd like to invite them in just so that they could hear the discussion tonight give them a couple seconds to walk in thank you so accessory dwelling units um again this request um is really a check in with council typically you would see this at a work session kind of as a sketch plan to get feedback and consensus to move forward but because of timing and my understanding that work sessions are pretty full and and we thought this would be a good opportunity to bring this forward tonight so we had a recent request through our building department permit came in for review for an r1 lot so single family lot and we require a minimum 10 000 square feet for our r1 lots and this particular request was for a detached accessory dwelling unit which we do allow on properties that are one acre or larger so forty three thousand six forty three thousand five hundred and sixty square feet or larger and detached accessory dwelling units are subject to maximum size and so when this was going through the review planning planning staff noted that one the detached accessory dwelling unit is not a permitted use within that particular because of the particular lot size and that the size of the accessory dwelling unit even if it was allowed would not meet our threshold for for size because it would exceed the maximum allowed that was brought to the attention of the applicant and an option was given that they could pursue an attached accessory dwelling unit this is an example of the submittal drawings that the applicant provided with their application just to give you a sense of what this could look like of course it would have to meet all of building codes and accessibility requirements per those standards but that's something that we put on pause to just before so this hasn't thoroughly been vetted by our city staff yet because of the issue that was brought up through zoning just as a quick overview background i think all that council member workmen were on the city council at the time that this went through a governance process so council member workman was on the planning commission at that time so is very familiar with this as well the governance process basically was sparked through an all-day work session in 2017. council gave direction for city staff to go through this process so it was an environmental scan white paper was provided that looked at our market cities as well as minneapolis-st paul a handful of other cities in the twin cities metropolitan area i think we looked at oregon and connecticut new york examples there was a handful of other examples throughout the country that we provided um expert testimony we had people come in and a realtor came in a tiny home people that lived in tiny homes advocates of accessory dwelling units came in lennar came in and spoke about their multi-generational housing and then there was some the next meeting was council dialogue and discussion and at the end of that council directed staff to prepare an ordinance to allow accessory dwelling units within within burnsville giving a couple of options one the detached version for the acre or larger and then an attached version which would be allowed on all of our r1 lots and r1a as well i do want to note that we do allow it it's not necessarily classified and as an accessory dwelling unit but we do allow i would say multi-generational housing where there is no separation between the units or maybe a door that doesn't lock and no firewall that would not be classified under our ordinance it's basically allowed and people can pass through but generally it feels separate or can feel separate i do also want to note that with our accessory dwelling units we do allow people to rent out the accessory dwelling unit if they choose they would of course have to obtain a rental license for that with accessory dwelling units we have not had any applications to date through our building department for attached or detached we do anticipate that we might receive another detached accessory dwelling unit they've been working with staff but i believe that one will be on an acre or larger parcel but that's not we have not received any formal applications since the ordinance was approved in 2018. you may or may not remember this map from our process in 2018 but these maps just highlight our 10 000 square foot properties and then our one acre or larger property so not or i would say um most of our single family um properties and burns burns will need that 10 000 square foot threshold there might be some anomalies out there that are under that but um but just a point of reference there are it's a good makeup of our housing stock and then just a visual example of what we allow in burnsville for accessory dwelling units you'll see in the blue graphic the attached version i highlighted that area and to be an official accessory dwelling unit you would have to have that firewall separation or two and two separate entrances so um we did think of some options for city council to consider should you decide that you do want to make changes to our city code and they're outlined in the background as well as on this powerpoint slide option number one you could consider to allow accessory dwelling units that are detached on all r1 lots as long as they meet the setbacks for accessory structures so typically like a 10 foot set back on side or where you could allow accessory dwelling units um and and allow an increase um let's see here let me read this uh you could allow detached accessory units on all r1 and r1a properties and increase the maximum accessory dwelling size to less square footage than the principal structure footprint so what this means right now we have a cap it's 33 of the principal structure or a cap of 960 square feet and point of reference this was modeled after after the eagan ordinance which that was part of the direction of council at the time that we developed this accessory dwelling unit ordinance so you can decide you know what burnsville is different we want to eliminate that that percentage cap and just um say as long as it's less than the principal structure we're we're fine um you can allow detached accessory units on all r1 and r1a properties and increase the maximum 80's adu size to 50 of the principal structure again we allow 33 now make it an even 50 um and but have that cap still at 960 square feet um or other maybe you have some other ideas that might work or keep the ordinance as is like i said we haven't had any formal applications for accessory dwelling units um and maybe you know this was changed two years ago maybe you feel that it's fine as is meets the overall general public's needs um and direct the property owner um to work with staff to meet zoning code so tonight i am asking for recommendation or direction on next steps certainly open to any questions or further discussion but the direction that i've recommendations that i've presented are to either direct the owner to request an ordinance amendment via the development review process it says about a 60 to 80 day process indicate that their support for no change and encourage the property owner to revise their building plans to meet code or direct staff to add this change to the housekeeping list for 2021 if you feel that more research is needed but have a good indication that you do want to make some changes but just want more information maybe you want to change that section of the code all together and look at more items more performance standards that are in there make more adjustments add that to planning commission work plan for 2021 or add this to the list of city code updates that we anticipate will start in 2021 that may be it could be i don't know a year year and a half long process before um you know that's all vetted through and and complete so some things to think about certainly happy to answer any questions like i'd mentioned um the property owners that sparked this conversation are in the audience as well thank you does the applicant want to speak yeah please can i take this off sure your name and address for the record my name is fred wiese excuse me um i live at 13605 wellington crescent i've been in resident now three years my wife and i just got married three years ago next week so three years she's been a long time resident of burnsville she's a doctor at the fairview hospital her parents and her lived at the property for 20 25 years combined a little bit about me i guess a little background on me i'm in sales i'm an auctioneer i've been an auctioneer since 1992 i do a lot of fundraiser benefit auctions non-profits and stuff like that i've been in sales all my life public speaking is not a big deal to me i'm passionate whatever i do i'm i like to do it 110 if you see the blueprints here you you talk about eagan and you talk about various cities what they're doing why not burnsville be the leader i'm bringing to you probably the best adu that you're gonna see come down the pike in a long time i i'm sold on burnsville i'm going to be here this is a business that's going to take off you look at the pandemic and what's happening in the accessory dwellings i have two parents are in a nursing home down iowa okay they're spending time they've been quarantined i'm looking through a glass window i would have loved to had them in that unit in my backyard that's what we can do the article you talked about in 2017 2018 i actually read that and i thought wow what a town that's progressive that's actually thinking down the road a little bit and so um my background auctioneering i was a home housing director for park construction out in the north north north dakota in oil fields and i was sent out there because i have agricultural background i have an ag business my dad bought cattle out there um and there's a lot of feeders so i knew the farmers and i could talk i had to find housing and one of the things i came across was there's a guy out of idaho that was building tiny homes and i ended up going to work for this guy because i i ended up renting a ton of his buildings he built them for me and it sufficed and it was great housing well i came back after that experience that's a long story and i'm not going to go into it but i came back and i built a better mouse trap he was doing a sprayed foam stick building these things if you look i got information we can go over but they're a sip panel i don't know if you know anything about them but sip panels are a great product it's a panelized building my goal is to build you know sign contract four weeks later deliver it i want to make a business out of this and in sales guess what if you don't how do i you got to believe in the product you're selling i work for midwest outdoor resorts up here in bloomington right across from the state from all america i'm their top salesman we're selling campground memberships this company's looking at buying 10 to 12 of these okay i used to work for breezy point number one top salesman for him bob spiezel's looking at buying these so this is something i want to have in my backyard as a model a little mini me that's going to look exactly like our house it's going to aesthetically pleasing i've already the trees if you look at the lot if you can go to that photo there's huge mature trees my neighbors will not be able to see it i've actually built a retaining wall and added to that photo and put evergreens in that are going to be 10 12 already done and ready in place so it's going to be evergreens year round i'm just appealing to this board i mean i can go on i'm a talker you can tell okay but the reality is i don't know your position i haven't even met you yet but i appreciate what you said i don't want to wait a year or year and a half for some you think about it are you guys gonna i want some action in a sense i'm gonna be building these things in arlington i got a warehouse rented uh the frames are gonna be built in henderson and in a little tiny farm that i just bought down there i'm staying here and living here i work it three days a week at bloomington but i want to be able to show this location is ideal i'm on 35w that's why burns i the minneapolis have you noticed that thousands of people are leaving minneapolis they may be coming here okay so i'm hoping that you have a little bit of vision look at this i need this as an example and a model and i want to be able to show people what you could do if it's an airbnb a mother-in-law special the heat shed she shed market um i wish i had it built when my parents went into the nursing home stuff like that and it could be a little extra income now i know you guys want to be aesthetically pleasant i'm going to bring it to you aesthetically pleasing it's going to be professionally done this meets the obama codes and exceeds them if you guys have any vision with green going forward in this town this is going to help you and get you some of your percentages or stuff like that i've read articles on certain cities have to get certain amount of green is that true any nods heads there we have a sustainability plan yes so this could help you guys hit some of those numbers um i'm actually working with a gal out of colorado that's actually going to create a finance package for this where um it's going to meet and exceed they're going to get tax breaks uh you know when you go to get a bank loan what are they going to do they could look up on their little app and see which loan you qualify for well this one's going to be a green app that she's created she saw my design she said this is the future she actually wants to put electric car i could sell a house and a electric car i could put a tesla shingle on this thing batteries underneath this thing i'm hoping to sustain and charge i'm not doing on the first model but this is something i'm i want to go down the road i came to town three years ago and we got married my wife is excited about this obviously i'm pretty passionate about she's we'll get a game plan put a business plan someone up to your score place up here uh and put a business plan and that's a couple of ceos retired guys and they say here so i got the business plan i've got the demographics i got the research this is the future for a lot of not everybody but for the adus and i would encourage this board to really don't kick this can down the road i'm i'm a mover and a shaker i everything i i i don't do anything wrong i don't think you can pick apart my design sip panels this thing's to code and bum beyond i had the state building inspector because i wanted red flags to go up before i even got this far if there's going to be any major issues and there is the state building inspector told me get this thing to market before other people build these little tiny homes and they don't do at the code or they cut corners and somebody dies in an accident or a burn or and then guess what they're going to change the rules they're going to stop the adus he says you're going to pass and exceed and you're going to set the standard and it's not going to be here it's going to be here okay that's how excited about this product this has been a four year process it's kicked in gear in the last two and a half years my wife came up with the idea of putting in our backyard i actually was going to rent a lot and put it on but i thought why wouldn't i want to show people what they could do with their home i don't know i'm hoping that you guys receive this well i'll shut up because i can i can talk forever i'm very passionate about this um do you have any detailed questions i can go into more any questions yeah is this portable can you move this around actually you're right part of my demographics and my research with this is i'm looking at the baby boom generation and i'm looking at the millennials i know it sounds weird to compare those two but the reality is is the baby boomers are scaling back and shrinking and they're looking at selling the big house and going into something in mobile now when i say mobile there's no chassis under it it fits the modular home rules with the state building inspection um that was one of my biggest hurdles to get over you know everybody wants to build a tiny home they want to go get a trailer that's you know eight foot and it's you know 10 feet wide and it's going down the road like a camper right well it's got a chassis and if you know anything about engineering and stuff but look at your mobile home parts where are they all the purlins are hanging out here and they're going down the road bouncing and you walk in any mobile home and the windows are ajar the doors are crooked and they're the crap okay i'm sorry for the french but that's just the reality of mobile homes mine have a frame all the way around the outside okay there i had an engineer that uh beefed it up and i i said what's the minimum and then and and double it okay my frames are going to go down the road the key or i had about two years ago and my hold up was how do i get them down the road it's an oversized load 16 wide 44 feet long how do i do that well there's a guy i went to church in hastings three four years he he's uh he has a company that does cross-country boat these big yachts and he has a high performance low profile trailer that's 18 inches off the ground and i talked to him he says i can haul he's actually going to designate one of my tr one of his trailers to haul these things because he hauls boats east coast and west coast and he sits in the middle of the country and does the great lakes so he's going to do back hauls for me and my my business plan has a five state territory i'm actually when i talked to the state building inspector he was telling me you're actually going to be you're going to be zoned at the highest level uh snow loads i can sell them in canada if i want to but i don't want to right now but i can do a five state area i'm licensed to go that far um but minnesota has probably one of the highest standards okay and so if i meet minnesota guess what i can sell north and south dakota uh iowa um wisconsin and so i'm going to try and stay in a five-state territory until this thing takes off um either i franchise it or you know get territories for somebody else but it's going to start right here in burnsville and trust me if you guys help me get this burnsville is going to get a lot of credit okay because i'm not moving i'm not going my wife said when we were dating hey i'm not moving from the house i love going to shakopee the women's prison when the traffic is going the other way and vice versa when she comes home she loves burnsville and she sold me on it and guess what i like it too okay so that's why i'm here that's why i'm investing this isn't cheap i paid all the engineers the frame is engineered to the nth degree sip panels can back up their product um 36 dollars a month to heat and cool this thing there's no furnace no duct work it's all in floor heat solar roof if i want to as an option or a generator i want to experiment with batteries that's the future of solar excuse me i give you some water and that's what i want to expand and go into but it's it's like i talked to bob spiezo and owner of midwest outdoor resorts do you guys buy a car without test driving it most people don't but you know what i got to have this model built and pretty soon i like to get in the ground before snow flies okay the footings and the frame i could build it in four days it won't take me long but i need to have permission i've done everything right by the books and went through the process it's been a very good one i've had no red flags everybody treated me nice and professional and i was greeted well even though when i was turned down i emailed back and i appreciate you getting this to the agenda as fast as you did if it was you or if it was somebody else any other questions i can keep going and yet councilmember schultz uh so you are almost the poster child for the type of person that i was hoping would come to burnsville uh when i brought tiny homes and adus forward is it you okay um i'm very excited about what you're doing i'm extremely excited that it's also a business that would be operating out of burnsville that's tremendously exciting um uh frankly if if it were if it was my vote today and we'll see i would allow detached adus on all r1 and r1a properties as long as the adu does not exceed the footprint of the principal structure and the setbacks are met and i would motion and i would vote on that today but i will listen to my fellow city councilors first i would also recommend that we do look on the rest of it as a change in 2021 for a city code update but i do not want to uphold this project while we take a deeper look at the rest of it so with that i will leave it to the rest of my counselors councilmember gus simpson well you didn't talk about what i thought you were going to talk about when you showed up here this evening good or bad no it's good you brought up a port you know i've when when kare actually brought it up years ago i was supportive of the adus at that time as well in the in the days of the colvin our economy and what's going on i believe living styles are going to change we're going to need housing as the economy is going to do what it's going to do over the next few years this isn't over by a long shot i also know that from my commercial real estate life uh business models are changing and where we do business is changing as well and there are so many home businesses today that we're always relegated to the office buildings and the office parks and a lot of them aren't there anymore their people are in their homes doing this thing and it's it's really helping the economy move along as best we can in these times i don't have i've never had a problem with adus i think i think it's the future my i will tell you i have an 86 year old mother who we struggle with at home and there's no way she's going to senior living we know that and if i had something like that in my backyard it would work i live in a split she could never live in a split because she could never get out of the four other bedrooms on so it would be very difficult for her so i i see these as a wave of the future i really do i think it's the way people are going to live i think you're going to find parents moving in with their kids their kids moving in with their parents and one of them's going to live in the adu or vice versa it's going to happen for a while and that's just where our economy is going to be so i would i i personally would be supportive of getting this business started because i think i think it's a i think it's something we could really use in this country no doubt it and it took me you know i thought this side three years five years ago when i was out in north dakota and i went to work for the guy and i sold a bunch of them i sold 43 i love sales when i believe in a product guess what it sells i didn't get to the number one salesman in every job because i did but i when i believe in something watch out okay and so i have to jump through some hoops here um but there's going to be some and i don't i'm not here to cut corners you know and i'm sure you get this i haven't been to your meetings but i'm sure you come in here so many people want to try and cut a corner just let this one slide let this one in i'm giving you everything i've given you the architect i've given you the engineer i got a business plan that's it's right spot on i have the state building inspectors and tell me get to market now okay and that was before the corona thing or the pandemic that we got so um i mean thank you those are words of encouragement i didn't know what i was going to come into today i appreciate that um one of the things that i i wasn't aware of that the potential for the whole business model and and one of the things that i just want to make council aware of um we do have a home-based business section of our city code that does talk about where i was going to go does talk about businesses and accessories structures so i'd want to look at you know based off of some of the statements that we learned tonight that may be something that may need to be explored or caution you know the property owner that certainly you know an adu can be lived in but for business purposes um that may be something that can i inject lou sure my i'm not going to have anybody living in it it's going to be a model okay no we we understand that mr ruiz so one of the things that what the product you have is a viable product it's where you want to put it and it's a a model and so you're going to have people coming in and out the other part has to do with the neighbors we always want to make sure that when you're going to be doing something that impacts your neighbors property value i've already talked to the neighbors okay so yes but it's not just your neighbors because if we change the code to allow detached adus that's not just your neighbors it's throughout the whole city the 27 square miles in burnsville and so we need people to have a voice because it has a direct impact on their property value when this product is a product for sale it's not where you're going to have someone come and live in but it is a product that we believe is viable but is this the right place for you to have that model if you will because you said you wanted to do it elsewhere but your wife convinced you to build it in your backyard um you know and that's and that was a sales technique in a sense because it's like if you don't believe in the product and if you're not willing to do it you know all my bosses i work for you got to own the product that you're selling and guess what that's i truly believe in that so i put my money where my mouth is okay it's going up in my backyard it ain't going to be a model forever uh i'll eventually hopefully this i've already got four or five people and two companies looking at 10 12 of these so the reality is it may be shut down after a year and then i use it for guest friends or relatives of my own so this isn't going to be a long term maybe a five year or less model because if this takes off like i think i've actually talked to i don't know if i should say the company's name here on the meeting but i've talked to a business that's actually looking at maybe putting the model there so it isn't going to be long that it may go out but i want to be able to say when i look you in the eye and say will you buy one of these adus and i have one in my backyard i mean it's just like if you're a chevy dealer you know do you own one do you drive a chevy you know what i'm getting that you got to be able to back it up and that's that's how my beliefs are so i get where you're going and i never thought of that and we can explore that and i'm not i'm not i want to do it correctly but and i want to make sure that the people in the community also understand what's going on because we're changing something that took us you know over six months to go through that process and people had a voice that and and when we start to make those changes it has a it has a financial impact on them so we need to make sure that they understand what what's happening here and this is a business a home based business that you're because well the model is going to be uh my business is in arlington i rented a facility down there your model it is a business yeah you you said that it's a model that you're going to have people coming in and taking a look at it just like selling a car you bet i'm not disagreeing i'm not disagreeing yes so one of my thought though is when you guys did it three years ago guess who read that article you reached out three so it's been a slow process you know sometimes it goes high and low but guess what that encouraged me just to look at burnsville and that they're progressive that they want to do something like this i've heard inklings of people interested now you know i'll jump through the hoops whatever it's going to take you know because i just think it's an opportunity for everybody councilmember gustafsson yeah i'd like to respond to the home-based business and i know we do have ordinances on that uh but i would say in these times we probably have a whole lot of home-based businesses in the city that are happening right now and if we were to tell them they couldn't do it we'd pretty much shut down our economy in the city so i don't take i can see where we may we need to look at that under for legal purposes but i don't look at that as a deterrent right now as to allowing new businesses to get started in our city councilmember schultz i well actually before i go i would like to default my time to um both counselor workmen and also to my other cousin i just i want all of our council members to check in on this before i come back on it councilmember workman thank you um yeah i was fortunate enough to be on the planning commission when we first reviewed this and a lot of the time spent was kind of walking in a room with the lights off because we we weren't sure what this was going to look like when it came to us a lot of it was kind of anticipating what it might be or or you know speculating which is why we landed on the code that we have which i think has worked you know to this point but here we are with kind of our first legitimate application and we're seeing just an area that might need to be massaged a little bit and it's clearly a good product a well done product and so to council member schultz's point earlier this does seem kind of like the poster child um for what i think we all thought the adu ordinance would be when we worked on it you know three three plus years ago so i'm i'm comfortable with this and um i'd be up for discussion on which of the three options here we're comfortable with but um i've liked everything i've seen so far councilmember keeley do you have a comment to make i know you didn't press a button but i do um thank you madam mayor uh well i am impressed with your presentation i appreciate that um i i had a similar concern that miss dean pointed out as far as turning the backyard of your property into a business but um i i'm i'm kind of highly doubtful that you're going to have a lineup of cars and just it's not a high traffic kind of business it's an occasional visit that's no different from any other type of event but um so i'm i'm not concerned about that but i do appreciate bringing that out because i was thinking the same thing oops what kind of vape this is i'm glad you did yeah um i do recognize that we have a pretty serious housing problem in in burnsville in the country and a lot of it is affordable housing and some of it is just the availability of housing because we have a we have a severe inventory shortage and it's i think it goes beyond just the intergenerational housing issue with baby boomers uh retiring it's exacerbating it and this is the kind of idea that i think helps it's one option that helps mitigate that there's a lot of different ways that every city can address the housing issue and making more housing available and i think when i reviewed our current ordinance that we created a couple years ago it looked i mean we put a lot of thought and process into it we came up with a good one the one thing that always bugged me back then was the one acre minimum made it very limited and who could even take participate in it's like okay we kind of created this really for southwest burnsville and a few other random lots but it really wasn't a solution that was broad and covered all of burnsville or more of burnsville and so i think we have a lot of standards in place that are good you've followed them because the product that you designed is a reflection of your main house so it looks great i mean it would look great it would tie in and you've also included a bunch of screening which i'm not sure that that was a requirement uh miss dino but you've decided to put in all these trees to really respecting the neighbors like so um i'm i'm open to this i i tend to like i like the size that you chose um because i don't think what people and maybe the lot size would dictate that everybody's going to want to see a 1800 square foot house with a 1750 square foot adu sitting behind it that might maybe the setbacks wouldn't even allow that anyway but i do like option number three revising the code and allowing the edu size up to 50 of the original structure i think does that fit your particular example uh what's your the size of your primary home 2500 i just looked it up today 2500 and you're proposing to build 705 710 square feet so uh well within that 50 and um and so i i think your particular application and your project um well it fits easily into that particular suggestion by staff i don't think it's uh too big and i the lot's big enough for it under the spirit of the discussion that we had two years ago or whatever was this is kind of what i was envisioning and i think we even had some sort of it but when we when we got to that minimum lot size we just eliminated 80 percent of the city from even participating in it so um i i hear what madam mayor is saying and i'm definitely sensitive the fact that we went through a very thorough process and we invited a lot of the community involved to make that decision to create what we have today i think what we're faced with here is um just a slight modification to that to allow more people into this party because we like i said we really limited it by having that one acre lot minimum so i anticipated this discussion would end up coming back for that reason and i think uh a council member or two may have made note of that one acre being a potential but it was a heavy lift back then just to get where we were are today and look at the evidence no one's staff pointed out no one has come before you no one has come since we've updated our adu to put in an accessory dwelling and i have a feeling that's a lot to do with we've only made it available to a very small slice of the city so i wouldn't expect a lot coming in we sort of designed it not to bring a lot in so i'm i'm open to updating that i like number three with a 50 cap personally councilmember schultz i i will i would i would settle for number three i lean towards number one um however i'm happy to work with my fellow council members if they are feeling good with option number three my only question is can we have it at the 50 of principal structure and just remove the 960 square feet long as it's 50 percent of the principal structure yeah i don't i don't know that that cap yeah my aversion to that one is just an arbitrary cap again 960 which is a 4 000 square foot house versus a 1700 square foot house the 960 is not conducive to the as a ratio it's like it's an arbitrary fix the 50 i think just fixes a problem yeah i i agree with that hear your i agree as well okay is someone making a motion or direction to staff staff is looking for direction it's not so that's what they're asking for i'd be happy to make a motion so i'm asked if i'm interrupt i'm asking for direction not only on the options to consider for changing code but then also the timing of making the changes so from a staff standpoint we do have a lot of projects in application or on our current plate right now so we're suggesting um that one um the applicant to the property owner applied to make the change this is similar to the um i would say the medical dispensary um recently because they have not put an application in right to make a request to change the ordinance or that this be placed on the 2021 perhaps housekeeping agenda or we do have some items later on in in the year in the next couple of months that could be shifted such as changing the mixed use for some of our properties that can be pushed further and then this could rise higher as as a compromise and staff is just asking for direction because of their prioritization of all of the work that needs to get done uh councilmember schultz okay i understand that staff is looking for direction um but it also appears that we have an applicant who would like to do this and they would like to be on a timeline as well so i will make a motion that we change our ordinance or change our zoning to allow detached adus on all r1 and ra properties and increase the maximum adu size allowed to 50 of the principal structure as long as setbacks are met do i have a second second there's a second and there's a discussion i will call on council member gustafson for discussion there i agree with your motion um can they do a very interesting so they can proceed with their project while we're going through this okay so um the variants not only our city code ordnance but also state statute has very specific language that talks about practical difficulties and and you cannot create um it can't be a self-imposed um i guess request and maybe our attorney can get into a little more further detail if there's a track that they can take to expedite what they're doing while we go through what could be a protracted discussion i would say the ordinance amendment would be the more appropriate routes that's going to take a year um if the property owner makes application for that we can fast track that we'll what we'll end up doing is likely having one of our consultants um review the request or we'll manage it so that we review this in one of our consultants reviews of you know different projects that are in right now the other a little bit of shuffling how long will that take how long will that take 60 to 80 days okay and that accommodates for public hearing notice that needs to occur we have a publication in the newspaper um and also landing on a planning commission date that that fits so the typical um review process is about 60 to 80 days the joel that would make all the legal um mr chairman that is as fast as you can go with the landings change okay you are statutorily obligated to have this go through planning commissions so it is a two-step process yes so as ms dean indicated we will have to have if council we take the council's direction with or without a development application we will have to have a two-step process planning commission then back much like the kmm agenda item that you have on your agenda this evening there's still a 60 to 80-day deal then for us correct all right thank you yeah so there's emotion and discussion one of the things that is troubling for me is not having the voice of the community at large because you're making a change where the community was aware of and um you have a very good product yes there is a public hearing i would just interject because we are suggesting a change to the city code yep there will be a public hearing notice for the ordinance amendment so the public will have an opportunity to review and advise the planning commission which will help them formulate their recommendation to the city council yeah and that's where i was going that i with an ordinance change there is a public hearing because my first concern is that the community doesn't have a voice and community needs to have a voice on something like this that will have an impact on the value of their property because what i look at is that if everybody they just need to know for me that's what it's about they need to know what's happening and how it will impact them you have a product and everybody agrees it's a good product and everybody agrees that it's a different product that may be useful not only for burnsville but for others so i don't think the product is the issue here it's how we deal with it so that we have we all live together in harmony and how it affects other people's property that's one of those i think i took it to another level of professionalism aesthetically pleasing i understand no it's not the product it's how the ordinance and and the zoning changes that affects other folks can i ask a question yes please so you you've been mayor now 20 some years right yes okay so you're plugged into the community i've been here three years this is i'm looking at a demographics and more of a macro sure how do you i'm going to really listen to your answer how do you see this being received by the community as you say well the product will be received well it's how it's stacked in a 10 000 square foot lot okay so what staff had put in place and that's what the council has directed staff to do is to revise the city code to allow detached adus on all r1 and r1a properties and increase the maximum adu size to allow to 50 of the principal structure and that you need to meet all setbacks meeting all setbacks but now it'll go through our process where the community will have a voice because there will be a public hearing i encourage that that's good okay yeah all right council member schultz um this is still discussion there is a vote and a second uh so looking at the 60 to 80 day and if i may ask for clarification from our city manager this could be past 60 to 80 days is that what we're saying i'm looking for a firm clarification of timeline well i think madam mayor and council i think if we look at the calendar there's we've got planning commission meetings and that timeline and the advanced notification to be considered so um i'd look to the assistant community development director dean to help with the timeline i don't have the calendar in front of me but um we'll have to make sure that one we were able to prepare the planning or the public hearing notice get that to the newspaper do the mailing or there won't be any mailings because it's excuse me it's just in the newspaper so then we'll have to write the staff report get it on the right planning commission meeting they meet the second and fourth mondays of every month um and then ultimately the following city council meeting i don't know off the top of my head if there's any holidays mixed in there or adjustments to the calendar i don't think there are um but again we we have other agenda items and and [Music] and that's what i was going to say are there other applicants that you're going to kick off to get this one on i would say we we have limited staff i know planning i i'm thinking about all of those things so that um as far as the staff review and the report that goes into this uh we may have to either take something to our consultants for them to review or we may have to shift some some items but as far as the the dates i don't have the calendar in front of me maybe melanie was able to pull that on her computer miss muscoli yeah thank you madam mayor and council i think what councilmember schultz's question is is from a ordinance amendment process the timeline not the review of the applicant yeah is that what i'm hearing the information that i'm looking for is if we change this ordinance and if this applicant comes before us and they everything fits within it going through the process if we follow the one that you are outlining when can they put a spade in the earth um councilmember schultz i want to talk and we've got planning commission on the 14th and 20th of september and they have to file a an application that hasn't been done yet so if i'm if i'm just i'm going to back off a little bit they've got those two council or planning commission meetings a subsequent meeting we'd go to council we have public hearing um we have a building permit application at this point so if we're if the direction is to direct the property owner to make application to amend the ordinance similar to what we did with the medical marijuana dispensary then they would have to fill out the application submit any application fee associated with that and then that starts the process um and so once we're in receipt of that application then it's 60 to 90 days from from there depending on meat and availability sometimes we can even bump that up um to 45 days i would say 45 days is the bare minimum the bare min and that's if every all the stars align and if the application comes in and there aren't any issues with the application yes uh yes mr jam nick come here to interject i understood council member schultz's motion yes to basically be a council direction it is to change the ordinance as outlined in the motion yeah so we would not need an application from the property owner with any application fees or escrow that's right it would be a council initiated direction that's right to have the ordinance drafted have the planning commission hear it and have it returned to the city council for final action i don't know whether you could reasonably expect to get that draft and the public hearing notice for september at least not in the first meeting for the planning commission in september that's a pretty quick aggressive time and that's a separate process from the application then correct that's right and that's what people are understanding depending on work plans for the planning commission and their schedule it would be timeline certainly by the second meeting of september to have that ordinance heard and then it could come back as early as the first meeting in october but that's without looking at any of the other items that are on the planning commission or the city council agenda and that's not even the review of the application because the review of that we will not have a review of an application because we're changing the code yeah and then once that has changed they don't do not have to come before us if it is it complies with the ordinance and the new ordinance it sounds to me like by early october this could be done which then would allow more than enough time to put i can't create i could live without the ground freezes if you were looking at january and february i get a little nervous you know footing and it's going to go on sauna tubes you know hit the frost line and it's going to be done right the code whatever and there's a steel frame so if i can get the sauna tubes in the ground uh the frame the welder you know it can he can work in a little bit of cold i'm not i i know you guys are compromising i appreciate the efforts and i do like this last discussion well that's whatever you want that's part of the process we get the ordinance and the codes changed and if it meets what you want then you don't have to come before us but if it doesn't meet and then you're going to have to come before us again that's that's fine um that's why i did my homework the first time i did it right you got the architect everything's the code stay i think it will fly through and that's just my gut feeling and there may be a red flag and we'll work if i'm going to be working with you i i only work thursday friday and saturday i i'm going to be here tomorrow filling that if i don't have to i would love to but you're going to see a proactive guy this is the grass doesn't grow under my feet i i move okay um madame are based on the discussion tonight it appears that the council is looking to move this forward the applicant or the potential applicant has heard the com the council's comments and feedback and so he would be able to draft whatever application to meet what i think he's heard from the council i know it doesn't have to come before the council i'm saying from a staff review perspective so the conflicts should be minimal i would say because you got staff review anyway yeah and in your case you're you you're well under the 50 limit so uh they're really and you've got your setbacks in place so okay so there's a motion and a second on the floor you want to call the question i'm going to call the question if there are no other um comments the question is called all in favor please say aye aye opposed say and the motion carries thank you very much thank you for your time the next item is covet 19 response update and uh our city manager miss mascaoli is presenting that's my scully good evening madam mayor and council i am going to sit in for our community development director jenny faulkner and provide an update on the grant program that the council adopted um just a little bit of a reminder and a background the program was adopted several weeks ago we underwent a pretty aggressive marketing plan sent out over 2 900 postcards a number of emails we also worked on digital marketing we had had over 216 000 digital impressions that means it's showing up on someone's screen 800 almost 9 000 engagements and then um almost 400 clicks to our website itself so we had a lot of good activity on our site the application process closed last friday um and we as of that day we have 161 applica excuse me 165 applications 161 of them are for profit businesses and then the four non-profits that the council adopted um the total dollar amount including public excuse me non-profit and for-profit is three million one hundred and seventy six thousand six hundred and forty two dollars i will say that's a gross number so that is not without you know we've got a consultant that's doing the review for that to see what eligible expenses might be so that is a that is a total number we did have seven individuals who applied more than once we talked about that our last meeting we talked about the number of applications um the council would be interested in um accepting uh and then we have been doing the review as they've come in so as of uh late last week we reviewed 90 excuse me 79 applications as they came through if an applicant is missing anything we're following up with them and they haven't one week to provide any information to complete their application so they're not disqualified we do have a goal to get the get them all reviewed by the end of this week and then that would mean that there would be one more week for any missing information to be submitted to us and we are on track to hold the lottery the week of september 7th and then i believe we've got a quick turnaround with checks i think within something like three days we'll be able to have a check out to those that are successful with the uh with the lottery with that those are the stats as we have them today i'd be happy to answer any questions any questions from miss muscali okay great and it's good for our community to hear what's going on just a i'd like to talk about our um our formal action uh was to put a million for the for-profit and we all voiced support for going to two million if the applications uh and the volume no we didn't warrant i don't think we said two million i we looked at one five because of the hospital yeah no i said two million and i heard knotted heads and support so unless the record is different i'd like to discuss tonight what we're going to do make a final decision with that second million to go up to the 2 million cap because clearly the demand was there well the other that i would still like to for us to wait on and that's one of the things before we go to because we talked about 1-5 with the hospital but i want to understand uh where our expenses are and what we can do and how that affects our 2021 budget i will uh like to hear from the rest of the council what they remember discussed but i thought it was fairly clear well no i know you you said that but i don't think we agree at least i didn't i was going to so i'm going to go to council member gustafson uh yeah we did have the discussion and and i was okay with this going to 2 million after we figured out what we needed for the city needs my biggest concern is and i want to as far as i'm concerned we can give it all to business to help them out in the city would be great i don't want us to get to a point where we're laying off staff in the city next year and cutting services because we gave away the only money we have to the businesses i think we need to take a look at where we're at we're going through our budgets right now we're going to very shortly know in the next few months what we can do if not sooner and if there's money left over then yeah let's talk about it but yeah let's make sure make sure let's not make make sure we don't cut ourselves short end up cutting services and affecting the families of the people that work here that work here in the city uh council member workman um thank you um yes i recall the discussion i think i was coming in the door at one five and announcement was at two um but we all kind of landed on let's see how this goes and then we can pivot at that point i think i actually said those exact words using the word pivot and um so here we are at 3.176 million i'm in favor of looking at a bump to this program it might make more sense to get to the final final and see where that is after we've vetted and gone through all everything um but the uh the concept of supplementing this for another million i i was in favor with when we first discussed it and i would be in favor of it as we are discussing it now so you're in favor of two million councilmember schultz uh so just checking on council here um it sounds like we also have a question of timeline because if we wait a few months if it's going to take a few months to find out what the city needs that's past the deadline of when we have to disperse the fund no we're going to have the max tax here discussion that comes up uh in the last next week it's before next week so madam mayor and council i can maybe talk about timeline and answer some of those questions yeah just then the council can provide some feedback for us next week on the 25th we're having a a max tax five-year cip discussion with the council kind of sharing with you kind of where we're at we're weaving the cares dollars into that as a as it plays into the overall picture um one component that i'd like to talk about councilmember workman references a little bit um the state has a grant program the county has a grant program and the city has a grant program in order of kind of how the programs closed out the state program went first so our program says that anybody who who received deed funding isn't eligible for our program now the way these programs are rolling out with different deadlines and vetting and whatever we're we have to kind of coordinate with the state so we will coordinate with the state once they make their awards and make sure that nobody on our list has received that right and then subsequently um we'll go through our list and then dakota county is the kind of the third leg of that stool that grant stool and so there's a couple of different things going on here that we don't really have the total the net net of the dollar amount quite yet um we expect to have that here in the next several weeks and that'll be a part of the discussion that i think you would find helpful as we as we go forward um when we when we are preparing the 2021 budget and we're preparing our 2020 cares act allocation they they tie in very closely with respect to um 2020 eligible expenses fund balance um and the 2021 budget and levy so they're all i that's going to be my four-legged stool i guess i'll i'll call it for next week's discussion so um i'll pause and see if there's any other questions that you might have for me but i would just ask my my colleagues to wait till after next week we have a better picture of what our expenses are and how it affects the levy for 2021. well on next week i believe on the timeline in our background city manager lee mentioned september 7th the week of september 7th was when you would actually be finished vetting all the applications and ready to actually do the lottery pick we would hope to um yeah that would be the timeline that week of september 7th so that would be the goal yep okay and next week is when we take a look at our budget and uh in a conversation with city manager early earlier the it was it became clear that dakota county would take longer to go through their process and do their picks and even though we were going to do it much quicker anyway it sounds like even though the their deadline for applications was the same as ours they're going to take significantly longer to be able to get through the picking and then getting information from each of the applicants that were picked and and vetting them to to eventually decide the awards i suppose yeah put it that way yeah different processes yeah but yes same end result is to get a grant grant dollars out the door okay okay well one more week it's it's uh there are businesses failing every week out there and and uh yeah you know this this cares program was signed by president trump uh what uh very early april and the money was awarded to the state of minnesota a long time ago many many weeks ago and it took unfortunately it took our state government a long time they sat on the money and they took a long time to eventually allocate it to us and we are really the the best line of providing help whether it's to our hospital to our nonprofits to all our businesses in burnsville and so i'm very proud as i and very happy with our city staff and how fast they turned this program around i'm kidding um it it you know we're i don't know there's other cities that have already uh moved even faster but what we were extremely as much money but they didn't give out as much right we're far more i think uh responsible to our to help save our businesses who are still um you know if you're in hospitality you're i don't know how they can still stay open uh and so this this is going to end up being the difference of someone not reopening or reopening and that may sound uh you know maybe a stretch but it's true because there are a lot of small businesses that put in applications and uh i just heard of another business today that the city manager lee and another council member mentioned that uh may not reopen and then they're in the hospitality business and and so this this prolonged time of the of of the money getting to the states and then the states taking too much time quite frankly to be critical of them far too much time to get the money to us um has created a situation where we just watch businesses fail left and right or hear that they're not going to be able to reopen and here we're sitting on money that could actually help them reopen and save those businesses so i want to be very generous and that's why i pushed for the 2 million because that's more businesses that we can help in hopes that they can make this turn and and survive this i am concerned about the city's finances but not as concerned about saving businesses today with that cares money because the cares money was meant to cover our heart costs and it was also meant to help our community and our businesses and our nonprofits and so i don't i don't subscribe to the to the um the bus to abilene that most cities went on with a 10 allocation or less in some cases i think that was highly irresponsible of them uh in my opinion yeah what was lakeville's lakeville allocated ten percent i believe they had a four point eight four point nine million and there was larger money than us they had a lot more money than us yeah i'll call my colleagues out uh again i think it was highly irresponsible to take money given by the federal government to the cares act to help their businesses and their nonprofits survive this and they're hoarding the money to try and help their own budget and i think um that's that's just ridiculous well i think one of the things is that when we're saying we're taking care of the city we're taking care of all residential because if it helps us to reduce the levy then it helps everybody no question and also helps businesses yes we have a lot of tools in our toolbox to do that this is one that was meant to help businesses too yeah okay are there any other comments anybody wants to make if not i need a motion to adjourn so moved okay there's a motion in a second all in favor please say aye aye aye opposing a and emotion carries good night and thank you for being with us why'd you change your math again you