Three Packers right here. Andrew's a Packers guy, too. >> Jeez, I knew that about you. >> Packers. >> I didn't know that about you. >> Your stock just went up. >> So, we need What do you want? >> What do you want? >> A new public services building. >> I would like a whole new building, please. >> You got to ease off during the election season. You know, as if you're running, you can't see you're a huge Packers fan because you need every, >> you know, I agonized over that a little bit. I think on my city bio it >> Yeah, >> I think it says Packers like maybe I think it does. Yeah. >> Aren't they just like I don't really know. >> Yeah, somebody said that. They're like, "Oh, I'm not >> talk issues or issues." >> How are you by the way? >> Great. Good. >> Well, I didn't even say hi. >> Bren mentioned that. >> You knew she was going to take a while later on. >> Yes. Right. >> Can you believe it? >> Communications. >> Can you grab We haven't had any coyotes living in the city lately, huh? >> Oh, really? >> That's like three years ago now. >> I know. Life goes by fast, doesn't it? It worked out okay. I mean, he >> Good old Floyd. We took Floyd to Indiana and >> the park the farm. >> Yeah. Did I ever tell I think I mentioned that my wife was at the Eden Prairie dog park with our dogs and she came home. She's like, you're not going to believe it, but there was this like coyote at the park. I'm like, are you kidding me? I'm like, you don't even know half of the story. I'm like, we have this issue. >> I think Wonia has one. >> Do they? >> Like presently. >> Really? >> Maybe. >> Okay, it's 5:30. Uh, let's call the meeting to order on November 17th. Um, up first we have new employee welcome. Brian, welcome. >> How are you? >> Good. You guys? >> Good. Did you get the warning about two truths and a lie? >> I kind of did. YEAH. >> The truth. >> Well, we'll go around and we'll do introductions while you think about your answer that question. >> Uh, good evening. My name is Courtney Johnson. I'm the mayor of city of Pepper. >> I'm Lyn Shooi. the finance director. I'm Brenda. Admin services. >> Aaron Schmidt, city engineer. >> Brent, we've met. >> Oh, yeah. >> City council. >> Kayla Pasco, city council. >> Christy Conrad, city council. Lori Ser, also city council. >> Mark, county attorney. >> Uh, I'm Brian Lupkey. I am uh your new uh utilities technician one. I came from the city of mayor. Okay. >> Uh ran waste, water, water treatment, did everything there. We were a very small crew. We were at one point down to one of us at one point and then as high as three. So yeah. So uh >> so with your hire, we took a third of their staff away in public service. >> Uh no, we actually had when uh when I left, they were we were actually up to the three number. Okay. >> And it brought us back down to two and now they're back up to three as of today. >> Oh, good. Good. Yeah. >> So Brian gives us a good good experience, gives us extra depth on our utilities team. So we're very glad to have him. So really strengthen strengthened our team. >> I was in I was in mayor just about 5 years. >> Okay. >> So have my class C water license and uh we actually had a wastewater treatment plant. So I know more I'm on that end of it too. So I know a lot about the wastewater side too. So >> awesome. Where do you live? >> Uh New Germany. >> Okay. >> Just on the north side of Highway 7. So >> Okay. >> About a half hour drive, but not too bad. >> That's not too bad. >> Awesome. >> So cool. >> Do you want to do two of the line? >> Yes. >> Yeah, I guess I can. Yeah. >> Can't use I live in New Germany, so sorry for that. Okay. >> Uh I am a farmer. We have about 60 head of cattle. I like snowmmoiling and winter sports and I love broccoli. >> So, we all put up the finger that we think is a lie. Mark, you can participate too if you want. >> Sorry. >> Oh, >> just in case a lie. Um, >> no. We have a we have a we run 300 acres and we have right around 70 of cattle all the time on our farm. So >> nice >> between my dad, brother and I. >> For milking? >> Nope. We are steer. We do steers. >> So >> So >> Packers or Vikings? >> Impartial to that. >> All right. >> My brother-in-law is a big Packers guy cuz he's from Wisconsin. >> Okay. >> So I'll usually root against the Packers whoever they're playing. Oh, well, we were starting off, >> but yeah, I'm kind of impartial to football. I'm more of a baseball guy, so >> Got it. Okay. Awesome. Well, welcome, Brian. >> Well, thank you. >> You are welcome to stay all night long if you'd like. Otherwise, now is an acceptable time. >> I think I'm going to take it. Got to feed cattle, right? >> No, actually, I got the night off. So, >> thank you guys. >> You're welcome. >> Um, okay. Up next, we have the prosecution services contract with county attorneys. Welcome. >> Nice to see everybody again. We've been through this a number of times. So, okay. Starting off as you know. >> Is it working? >> Next one. So, we prosecute 101 cities. It's trying to get the cost for the city of Chanhassen who hires Campbell Kudson. they have I think just a bundle cost for their city attorney so it's hard to break it down um but was trying to figure out well you know what are comparables and what do they charge but um we had a longstanding history and relationship with the various cities and and you know about the the focus prosecution that we have and um we're centrally located we're very victim centered oriented so we control all bail hearings we really try to have that quality relationship with victims and help them through the process. No matter whether it's I got property damage when somebody hit my car, ding my car to, you know, DUI, they injured me to a domestic assault, you know, obviously for the felonies as well. All right, next slide, please. >> I think it should work now. >> Okay. Okay, great. So, this these fees, the staff costs, we look at that again. When I first came in here, I took a look to see what's the value that we're getting and that the cities are getting. So, we're going to really break that down next year and and reassess that. Um, and hopefully get ahead of it for you all because I know your budgeting is usually before our budgeting. So, what would be a time if we're looking at next year we should get you something so you could plan? Is it spring? Late spring? >> Yeah. June. >> Like June, July would be okay. Good. >> Yep. I We start seems like they you know they we go through the whole budget cycle with the county and I've seen their presentation 20 times now and and then we start all over again like I'm going to end it never ends but okay so so we'll look at doing that but we have the the staff costs we take the revenue from fines and this cost allocation which is what the county contributes which to be frank is I I don't know if that's going to be there going forward in the future because the county is really looking at their finance like everybody else is too. So I need to talk with our administrator more about that and our finance team. So that's how we come up with the search charge. We have this um searchcharge down below too. So the search charge sorry about 96,660 is what's split across all the cities and based upon how many cases we handle for you. But then below that, this is the search charge based on um a 3.5% county personnel cost allowance. So that goes up and down. Last year was 9%. So it's a lot more. So it's we try to have it standardized with our auditor's office. So we're not just trying to pull some numbers and we get that from our finance as well. So that can fluctuate. This year it was 3.5%. Which is lower. the cases the 2023 was a little lower for the city of Carver with 37 cases and then back up to 53 cases. So the average is 48. You can see that's how you come up with the average compared to the other cases. Um I'm trying to think we did a lot more cases you can see in Waconia. So I was wondering about that like when you fluctuate with certain cities like why would that be? Is it more patrolling? Is it just the crime or what is the reasoning behind it? Uh I know our DUIs are up significantly. I mean, we've had a lot more DUIs in the last 6 months. I don't know why that is. I mean, that seems to be a crime that should be going down historically over years, especially now that it's pretty easy to get an Uber or any education behind it. >> Is it Can I ask a question? Yeah. >> Is it always alcohol or maybe you don't know or is it >> That's a really good question. So, it's alcohol. I mean, we have some others in drugs sometimes, but with this new marijuana law, I think one of the main reasons the county attorneys across the state were against the legalization is because it's very difficult to prosecute people that are impaired. We have a set if you're an '08 test within two hours, you're over the limit. So, we don't have to do this impairment. I mean, they do their field sobriety test, right? But now with THC, somebody just says, "Well, you know, I use it every single night, so that's why my level was higher." So, I wasn't impaired. So, they do the drug testing on the side, but it's really difficult to get a jury, get six people or 12 people to convince beyond a reasonable doubt that, you know, the person was impaired while they're driving high. >> And so, that you're going to see that it's going to be really problematic. and and we've had we've had some we had a um a fatality where the person's level was very low. Um but it was dark at night. It was in Chanhassen and and it was was raining and didn't see this person crossing the road and so we didn't charge a crimicular homicide. And I think that that the level was was very low but it was concerning when we saw that test that there was some THC in their in their system. So anyway, that's a good question about that. It's it's going to be interesting to see and um it's difficult to prosecute those cases. >> Um how big is Watertown? How what's their population? >> Water town,000. >> Okay. >> I'm just curious because that one is kind of high for those small cities. >> For small city, I don't know if it's extra patrol or >> Yeah. >> Lyn lives there. So get the dirt. We'll talk about some trends at the end as well, but this is how we come up with our usage rate. So, it's going down a little bit, $445, city of Carver. So, it's a it's obviously a very good value. It's a good very affordable for the cities to prosecute with our office. Nothing else kind of see some went up. If you look at, you know, Wonia went up a more and some others went up doing just doing more cases. So that's the the breakdown of that. That's our our case law trends still continue to be unfortunately we've had a lot of criminal sexual misconduct cases and those are some of the most difficult cases to prosecute and because they're not done with witnesses and victimization is so intense and you know everlasting for these individuals and so we're we're we do the very best we can to try to prosecute those cases. I think we've gotten some of the best sentencings across the state with crimex cases and child pornography. We have We're very aggressive in our office with those and so we get a lot of prison cases and and so but unfortunately that you know that has a a tremendous impact upon the community and these victims and and they take a lot of resources for our office too and you need an expert and so we do have an expert prosecutor to really know how to handle those types of cases. But that's been uh sobering to think that those have increase they've increased since co I don't know if that's because more people are at home there's opportunity so those are some of the trends that we've seen there I think it's always been the challenge not always but recently it's been a real challenge to uh recruit with the market the attorney market which is surprising and so we haven't had a lot of turnover but right now we have we're down a civil attorney we went through all the interviews and we weren't able to really find a a person that was the right fit so we repost because it's better just to do that than hire somebody that isn't going to work out in their office. But we just made an offer to an experienced prosecutor from Iowa, which we're excited. Hopefully, you know, they'll be accepting, but the market's really poor for attorneys. It turned we we had a better market for administrative support staff, which was interesting. So, we had a lot of really highly qualified people for that. But the attorney market and the quality is is it's uh it's challenging. >> Is that just competition with private sector? >> I think that's probably it. And I don't think it's as much competition. Yeah, probably. But um some of it's pay. You know, our county board adjusted that because we just couldn't compete with some of our other counterparts, really other county attorneys. And so they stepped up and I give them a lot of credit because we were going to lose some really talented people and they stayed and one of them came back and they're like, you know, if I can go make $20,000 more, Mark, I've got a family. I said, yeah, I get that. We try to provide for them. We do I'm a big proponent of teleworking. I don't know what the city is, but I think that's a great opportunity for us to recruit and to retain people. So, and for our civil attorneys, for example, they don't need to be in the office. They might have some commitment hearings or other hearings you have to appear in court, but otherwise I'm fine. They're productive and they're performing and it really has been, I think, good for our office to allow that. And so our veterans and drug treatment courts are really doing well. And we, you know, we joined with our counterparts in Scott County and Dakota County to join for our veterans courts. And so recently, in the last couple years, we've had a first judicial district that score. And so we weren't reluctant because we knew we had to do this to be viable because we don't have as many numbers. We were just it was just hard to get numbers where the state would support us. So we actually shifted our probation to Scott County and we have court in Scott County. And so we have one of our prosecutors, Kelly Small, handles all those cases. Um and that's working really well. Same thing as our our drug court. So I I did pull some numbers. So we've had three graduates from substance abuse court drug court um this year. So that takes almost two years of really intensive services that we provide and it's shown through best practices that recidiv is lowered with both these courts. And so we started that in 2020. We've had 23 graduates. So it's been a really great success. And I think last year I read some of the testimonials. I have more testimonials, but it's really impactful when you hear about, oh my, this just dramatically changed my life. I have value in my life and and so that's really working well. In vets court, we've had seven graduates this year and and I don't know how many it has. We started in 2014. No, 2014. Was it 20? Yeah, I think 2014 we started. So, probably on average we have that. So, we're always looking at, you know, tweaking it, making it better. Who should we allow to have come in there? Should somebody that gets a DUI, you know, should they should they be allowed to get a state of adjudication, for example, where it might go off their record, but it's still in hand, you know, things like that. They're tough questions that people might disagree about, but you have to have some carrot for them as well, an incentive. Um, but there's consequences. I mean, the judges, they go to jail for sometimes when they test positive for drugs. So, you got to do a weekend in jail. You know, there has to be consequences. So certainly something we're really proud of in our office with these treatment courts and it's the trend across the state and we've gotten financing grant money from the state now by joining with our counterparts in the first for vets court and then we're still on that big grant. We got a a initial grant of $500,000 for our drug court and then we got an enhancement grant $750,000. So that's great. So we've been preparing our board. But I've been preparing our board that we're we're going to need your support financially eventually and they're supportive of this because that's going to run out and >> but right now it's fully funded by these grants. >> Yeah, pretty much. >> Okay. >> Yeah, pretty much it is. And so we use and then we're using some of the money from our opioid lawsuits. So that's been a really uh positive outcome because if you maybe if you remember but my focus was we have to hold these pharmaceutical companies accountable. That's our first and foremost and we have to stop them from pedalling these products, right? I didn't anticipate we were going to get much money because when you think about it, you're like, "All right, are we really I don't want to make promises to the constituents, you know, you're going to get a lot of money out of this and you know who makes all the money. It's these are the lawyers. So, they're going to get a lot of money out of this." And so, we hired a separate attorney's feet, you know, office and virtually every county attorney's office did that, which is fine. They're doing a fine job and they know how to handle the resources. But we've ended up getting I I don't know the total, but I know we just got an additional $80,000. So, it's going to be like a million dollars over a period of time. And so, we have a committee that's needs to talk about how that should be used. And I was okay with that, but I definitely know we're going to need some of that money eventually when our funding ends. And so, um, but that that's yeah, that's been very positive for me. >> Is there Can you apply for more funding after this or is it done? um will the enhancement grants possibly >> but I don't know how the new administration is going to be favorable to I mean you've seen these other grants that have been affected fortunately like our we get a a domestic abuse grant that uh pays for one of our victim witness coordinators and so that's been fulfilled this year which is good because we have two full-time people that work in our victim services Nancy Aids and Donna Storms so they did a they do a fine job, then we have a part-time person, too. And so, you know, that that's that's tough. We're looking at going, okay, is this going to be affected by this? >> So, the trends also are that we need we do need another prosecutor in our office. And so, I've been asking the last two years, our county board administration, for another prosecutor, and I haven't been successful. I know we're at the top. So, I understand the balance from city councils and the county board and with budgeting, the challenge that you have when you have 20, 30 FDE requests. What can you do? But hopefully we can get us those resources, you know, in the future uh so we can continue to, you know, prosecute these cases. And um yeah, that's kind of a I think what's going on then wanted to bring attention. >> How many how many people participate in the drug and veterans courts each year? I know you it you told us the graduation rate, but yeah. >> What's the percentage? It's probably the like the vets we have on average less than 20. >> So, I mean it takes one to two years, usually two years for the drug treatment and probably two years for vets. So, there's probably there's probably more. I don't know if there's 40 or 50, but um I'm not positive how many are in the drug uh court as well. But, you know, they meet uh consistently on Mondays to with with their whole team just like in a room like this with probation, with law enforcement, with our office, with the judge, with the coordinators talking about, hey, how's Joe doing? How's Susie doing? You know, what what do they need? What are we doing? And and so they go through that whole process. And it's intensive. I mean it's more it's resource heavy but the benefit is that these people don't keep reoffending espec like with drugs you think about that that oh I finally got sober for a period of time that they haven't been that's one thing I I always remark about with prison with people it takes a lot to get in into prison to go to prison in Minnesota I think that's a misunderstanding is that oh my gosh we got people in there that have marijuana and stuff no it's by the time you get sentenced to prison you've earned it and you've had 20 probation violations, you've committed a really serious offense. But um so you know that it's interesting because for certain people that commit these high level drug offenses, if they get sentenced to prison, say for two years or four years, that's probably the longest time they've been sober at least. Like you can literally save their life because at least when they're in prison, they come out and they go, I've been sober for three years now and now I know what that's like instead of kind of that rotation. and and we had a woman that she was charged with thirdderee murder in Chaza and she provided uh along with another man carfentel which is used to tranquilize elephants. So it was it's worse than fentanyl. >> So this guy was came from was really sad. He was like 25 years old and he came from Alabama. He came up here for treatment. He went through treatment. He's living with his counselor and this woman just texted and said, "Hey, you got any of that stuff tonight?" It was like, you know, midnight. She wasn't going to he wasn't going to use that night. Yeah, I'll meet you in the parking lot. And it was heroin. He shot up in the parking lot and had carfentel in it. He was dead. And so we charged we were able to Jasa did a really nice job. They actually get the surveillance and all their their phones, which is the key of these text messages and saw her going into the Super America and Chaza and coming out. And so he went to prison because he had a record. And for her, we agreed to um she agreed to cooperate against him and testify against him. And so she successfully went through the teen challenge for a whole year and was like a mentor and was doing really great and then got out and then within like a year she was with some of the old back with kind of these old people again and she spiraled. And so she's in prison. My point would be, you know, three years in prison, she's sober for at least three years, longer than ever. But yeah, we've seen, I mean, the fentanyl's terrible, but the number one drug is still methamphetamines. So, I I know people think, oh my gosh, there's, you know, there's so much fentanyl and it's dangerous because it's fatal, but methamphetamines is the most abused chemical in Carver County, probably in the state. But yeah, fentanyl just kills you and it's mixed with all these drugs. I mean, it's hard to get heroin. It's just fentanyl. because it's cheaper and the drug dealers know that and so you don't know what you're getting. And that's what's scary. That's what I tell people. It's like don't even I mean they're not listening to me probably when I say don't do that, right? It's not not that simple. But if you experiment, right, you go, "Oh, I'm going to have some Molly or I'm at a party or it's your kids and stuff like that." You're like, "Well, I went on a bad trip." No, you're probably going to find some stuff that literally could kill you because they mix it with this fentanyl. They don't care. and these drug dealers. It just it's a business and and it's not Yeah. So, it's uh but knock on wood, we haven't had a homicide, you know, we've had a murder suicide in the Chanhassen car complex you probably read about. So, but other than that, we haven't had um we had an attempted murder and that guy got really low bail and was let go and he end up killing himself like a week later. This happened like three months ago or maybe six months ago. So yeah, so it's we've had there's there's always something going on, you know, and I said that this job is is interesting in many respects, but the last slide was really, you know, we have a a new uh chief deputy Peter Ivy retired after 37 years. He's actually coming back part-time this week just to help out. But so Jennifer Tishi was the head of our civil division. So, I promoted her and we have usually about 34 employees and 17 assistant county attorneys myself. And then really sadly, we we uh our office is really hurting now because we lost one of our senior administrative assistants, Beth Young, died of ovarian cancer October 15th. So, we had a funeral two weeks ago as a real gut punch because she's really was a special person and was my administrative assistant when I got hired at Carver County in 2006. So, for four years I worked with her and so she just she's 61 years old. We have the same birthday July 7th. She's a big Vikings fan. I'm a big Packers fan. So, we always had a bet every year that the loser had to buy the other person their favorite cake and decorate it. >> Decorate it. So it killed her. She lost a lot of cake. >> She got she Oh, she lost every year. She finally said, "I'm not doing it, Mark." And then they beat us. >> So, but it was she's a really one of those people that is so steady and kept that group together and was so solid, had a really good sense of humor, a great work ethic, and she got diagnosed and she went through all the treatment and she was still working and and unfortunately she just uh didn't make it. So, we had a really nice celebration for life. But I I say that and I've said this at the meetings because it's important to still recognize these people that are so special, you know, that you work with on a day-to-day basis. And it was a real gut punch to our office. When you work, I mean, every single day you see this person and and she was so committed and and she, you know, her husband was the city administrator for Deep Haven for over 20 years. >> So, Dana Dana Young and he retired and then they have two adult children. So, they really had some really nice remarks about their mom and so but yeah, but thank you for letting our office prosecute for you and you know we're there and I I know Brett has anything he needs. He calls me recently, you know, just like our our little friend Floyd or something. But those the relationships are really important to me. So, I I think you know that that's we try to work together. I think that's what's special about Carver County is the collaboration and not everybody's always perfect, but we try to even we have every serial position like we can get along and the job's hard enough, right? Like you might disagree about something, but at least listen to me and I'm open to have my mind changed and things like that's how we try to treat people even if they're charged with a crime. It's like we're not going to judge you that you're a terrible person and you might have a physician that could change our mind and same goes. So, but yeah, thanks for their relationship. I appreciate it. >> Mark, thank you. Your updates are some of the most informative I think that I sit through. I really appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming in. I'm sorry you're lost. >> Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. You mind if I don't stick around? Huh? >> Oh, well, it's totally up to you. You can stay all night long. >> Should I get you on the the text change of the Packers? No, I didn't want to be on it either. >> Thanks a lot. >> Thank you. Thank you. All right. Up next, we have the draft troop and taxation. Would it be easier if my set over there? Would you guys rather? Okay. See? All right. So, here we are already um preparing for the December 1st meeting where we're going to have tens and tens of people in the council chambers to learn about our budget and levy for 2026. So, this is just a draft um here to get some feedback on our budget and levy. Um so, truth and taxation, what is it? This is more of an informative slide and as is the next one. So, there's three main components when we talk about um truth and taxation. So there's the proposed levy adoption piece and that's a requirement that local governments over 500 residents they are required to adopt a proposed levy in September. Um and that is the highest that the levy cannot exceed and so we already did that. Um so anything we adopt in December has to be lower than that. Uh the second component is parcel specific notifications and so Carver County auditor should be mailing each homeowner and business proposed property tax notices. I have not received mine. I'm hoping that they come this week um because they do have a due date that they have to send those by and I believe it's this week. So, um hopefully those will be showing up in our mailboxes. Um and then the third main component is a public meeting. So, we have to hold a public meeting after the notices are sent and we have to actually state when we're holding that meeting and it can't be um it has to be before the adoption of the levy. And so, ours is December 1st. Um and then why is this important? Uh transparency. So it shows how budget spending connects to property taxes and it also keeps local governments accountable to the taxpayers and it allows um the residents to come in and provide public input uh share feedback, ask questions about projects or budget line items and then perhaps influence council's final budget decisions and tax decisions. And then finally, the third factor of importance for the truth and taxation is it prevents hidden tax increases. If we didn't have these public meetings, um if we didn't have any of these meetings on uh taxes and levy, we could be increasing taxes and residents may not even know about it. Um so, you know, we're putting these this information out on our website. You know, we're putting it on Facebook. we're having multiple meetings and um so we're not we're making sure that any kind of property tax revenue isn't automatically rising with property values. So once we get the property tax um proposed notice, I will post a an example here and then I'll redact any information um that's specific to any sort of homeowner. Um and then the city of Carver tax is only one portion of the total property tax. You also have the county tax and then you have the school district tax um for the Eastern Carver County Schools. Um the deadline to dis dispute any value of your home. So any value that the the assessor has assigned to your home value that that deadline has passed. That I believe was in June. Um and so they the Carver County assessor assigns that value to your home. Speaking of assessments, um this document is provided by the Carver County Assessor's Office and it is a sum of the city of Carver's assessed values. Um so it's broken out into categories, residential, commercial, apartment, agricultural. Um and in each category, you can see how it has been affected in this past year to 18 months because it is a it's a conglomerate of different values that they've taken over the past 18 months. Um, so the net change is about 8% increase for the city of Carver and that's a collective amount between apartments residential. If we're just looking at the residential um, new construction amount, then that's about a 4.2% increase in new construction. And I will note that on this slide I I point out the average value home um, for this year is $453,100. And that too is set by the Carver County Assessor's Office. Last year that amount was $433,000500 $433,500. So, and then I did note too that last year the total percentage change was $4.98%. So, we did get a a bit more of a boost this year. This is just graphing what I just showed you on the other page, but it's a historical new residential construction by assessment year. So, you can see the peaks and valleys of that new construction. This is a slide that I just want to differentiate between the general fund versus the enterprise fund because we do get a lot of questions here at city hall. um what are my taxes paying for then or what is my water bill paying for? So this slide I just like to point out the general fund is the revenue source comes from property taxes, permit revenue and other city service fees whereas the enterprise funds is more like a our business and it comes from selling water, selling something. Um so it's utility revenue. Um, and so we in no way, shape or form can use that utility revenue to pay for things on the general fund unless we, you know, take out a loan or take out a, you know, inner company or inter fund loan. Um, so I think that's a misconception a lot of times in city government, um, that those two things are separate. Um, so the general fund does act as a city's basic operating fund. So when we're talking about paying for certain wages and um keeping the lights on, that is where a lot of the the funding will come from. So the city tax rate and levy must support the current and future operations of the city. Whereas our rates on our utility bills, um it's it's created from that standalone business and that must sustain for the enterprise funds. So, we have successfully not paid um or charged our residents in the city of Carver any franchise. Have posted on their Facebook sites as of late um you know proposing franchise fees for the upcoming year. Um but right as of right now, the city of Carver does not charge um any sort of hidden I don't want to say hidden, but they're charged on their utility. Um, so it could be gas, it could be electric, and a lot of times it just says city fee or city tax. And so it can be very often confusing. Um, and right now we do not collect any of those. So just a quick general fund revenue rundown. Obviously property tax revenue is our main source of revenue in the general fund. Local government aid. This is not a promised um funding amount, but right now they do release these amounts ahead of time. So, we're looking at receiving 210,000. In 24 and 25, that amount was just $1,000 less. Um building permit revenue, we are increasing this um a little bit because we are anticipating a little bit more building activity going on in the city of Carver next year. And so, um rightfully so, we increased that dollar amount. And then we have fire state aid. Um so fire state aid is received through um the state of Minnesota, but we also book an expense on the expense side because it passes through to PAR. Um and so our all of our funding for our firefighters retirements are is done through PAR. So just graphing this out, I have a more of a visual. You can see that the property tax revenue um fire contracts and um fire contracts, building permits, it's listed and then on the very far column you can see the percent of increase that it's increasing for 2025. The overall revenues are budgeted to increase by about 9% over 2025. >> Does anyone have any questions? Yeah, >> I do have a question. Yeah, and you've probably said it before, but the one that jumps 24%. What is different this year with um fire contracts and >> Sure. Um so it looks it looks like a lot. It's about um 40,000. What what Yep. But what we're doing is um right now we have $20,000 budgeted in additional fire pension um that the city will contribute to the fire department's pensions. Okay. >> Um and then that aid amount for the fire department does go up. you know, it's based on a formula that the state comes up with and so it's increasing from about 60,000 to 77,000. So that combine the 20,000 combined with that 17,000 that's quite a jump. So but yeah, good question. So the general fund expenditures also going up by 9.4 because it we have to have a balanced budget in the general fund. Um so again this is more divided by the departments um public services, administration, fire department and again um some of the departments are increasing while some are decreasing. Um and so you can see there that the overall effect is a 9.4% increase. And this is just more of an analysis. So the first on the left hand side we're just looking at what percent of the budget is each department. Okay. Um so the public services that's the roads that's the plowing that's you know the trees the trails the parks. Uh that's 26% of the budget all the way down to like our law enforcement which is 8.45%. That's that Carver County Sheriff's contract. Um so sometimes people like to kind of piece it out like that. Um whereas the the chart on the right hand side is just comparing 25 to 26 and how much of an increase it is. Sometimes you like to see the dollar amount and the percentage amount. So let's talk capital equipment and improvements. Um not too much going on next year when we're talking fire capital fund. We have an extrication equipment plan for 45,000 in the fire department. in the general capital fund in the public services. We're planning for a hot patch box replacement. Um so they will be replacing their old one and then a one ton truck with plow replacement and um that amount will be about 90,000 once that whole truck is put together. Street maintenance fund. Um this is just a local portion of it where it has the mill and overlay streets within the Carver Bluffs for 570,000. There will be a state aid portion of this project too. So >> So when we're replacing >> these um under the general capital replacing those, how old are those? >> I mean one they're both replacements. Do we know how many years? >> I'd have to reference the management plan. >> What's that? >> The car >> the low low to mid20s. >> Couple of soup warm in that thing. >> So that thing is >> okay. I'm only wondering if we're going to if this is going to be this is for a proof of taxation. Yeah, >> it makes sense to say how old they are. >> Sure. Perfect. You meant the truck. I thought you meant the street. >> No, general fun. I don't. But the streets are old also. So, I mean, we can put >> We can put the ears on. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Good plan. And put Can't keep a cup of coffee. No super use. No super use. Okay. So, when we're looking at the levy, um, we're increasing the street maintenance fund by 620,000. Um, street maintenance fund and we're talking about transparency. Again, we broke this out in 2022. Um, just to show that we're making real efforts in Carver to improve our streets. Um, and then when we go down the line here, general equipment, we're making an effort of 150,000 and then fire capital 100,000. parks capital 75,000 and this year we're having um a little bit more of a different approach. Um and this is because of the public services design um plan and that is for the facilities capital we're planning on doing $412,958. Um and that that is just a temporary amount as we get this design um in in progress here. So, this is the capital levy and the street maintenance fund. So, that ties into kind of what I was talking here. The staff is recommending using fund balance to pay the debt service um for three bonds in 2026. Um, and we're reallocating that back over here to that facility's capital. Um, so that's why we're able to collect that facility's capital because we lowered this amount here. Um, so it looks like it's decreasing by 30% for 2026 and that's temporary. Um, we passed a resolution on this, I believe, at the last meeting and then that will be submitted to Carver County. Um, just to let them know, hey, this is a one-time thing. We plan on um, you know, levying for our regular bond payments from here on out in 2027. General fund levy um, history. I just went back uh, to 2024. I do have um more history if anybody's interested in seeing it. Uh but we were at 11.84 last year. We're at 11.38 this year. This breaks out the history based on type. So we have general debt, street maintenance and equipment levy. And then we have the his historic um city of Carver tax rates. And you can see the trend line is generally going kind of in a more of a lower direction um as we you know e toward 2026. Um the highest rate on here it looks like was 2019 at 50.59%. The average tax rate over the last 10 years is about 46.23%. 23%. So keep that in mind as I go to the next slide. Just as we compare to the Carver County cities, um we just received these as well from the assessor's office. Um these are all Carver County cities and these are their proposed 2026 tax rates. And so again, these are the highest rate that they will have because anything that they submit in December must be lower than this. Um, but I calculated a what would their city tax be on a $453,000 just for their city tax? This doesn't include any school district um or county tax. And then all the way down to Chan um which comes in at 22% at $988 and Carver is in the mid to lower half. That's the yellow there. So, I will um be reaching out to our benchmark cities. It's a little more difficult because we have a right county, we have a Henipin County, and it's not always as accessible as Carver County is to to retrieve those proposed rates, but I will have this data. Um it will look just like this only for our benchmark cities um for the actual meeting. Um and then this is just what um seeing how how much has our average valued home increased in the last 10 years. Um and it's quite a job. So proposed 2026 tax impact um you take what the carver county assessor provided us for um tax impact uh market values and we plug in what we need to fund our budget and we get a 43.36% um tax rate and that would calculate out to a city tax of $1,94 $40 for this average valued home and that's about $135 more annually than they that this home would have paid in 2025. >> No question. Tax capacity. Do we make that clear that that's what we the city could uh we have we have the ability to go up that high. you get all of this work we do comes out to less than half of that. Do we say that in plain English anywhere? >> When you say less than half of what? >> Well, so the capacity, my understanding is that 4473 number is what we could uh impose for a tax on an average home. We don't. who go through all these girrations and all this work to make that as little of an impact as possible. And someone might not realize looking at that that um the county has said this is how much we could charge for that home. We don't. We charge less than half of that. Does that even make sense to call out? >> I think you the tax capacity rate is a byproduct of what we're levying. So that is what they're being charged. It's not half of that. It's the full amount. >> I think he's saying like by state statute we could charge up to $4,473. >> We could charge 100%. >> We could It's a number that makes it when you look at it on a chart like on the graph like you have the two pages before. Yeah. You can see the one down or back to the actual graph. Oh >> no, >> slide slide 19. There we go. Yeah. So >> over time, you can see it as an aggregate over time like over time we're decreasing >> but in the abstract 43% of what? >> But you can tax and I think one of the Carver County communities did tax over 100%. >> At one point it was 105. >> So it's not that's not the ceiling number. Yeah, I know. I I'm just looking for a way to put it in plain English so that you can >> because it in the absence of that, >> you're right. >> What are you comparing it to? >> Yeah. >> Um >> I have the same question. >> Okay. >> 43% of what? >> Um it's but that's it's not 43% of anything. So the tax rate is what your value is. It's a it's a math equation. So the the rate is uh calculated by taking the levy amount. >> We go back >> against Yeah. Can you do the uh >> I have a really cool document too I can pull up. >> You can go go back all the way >> the like assessed value slide with >> from the county. >> Yeah. We're going way back >> right there. >> Yeah. >> So the that estimated market value, the county will do another step and they create what's called a t tax capacity value. So they'll >> so each of the types so residential is uh the tax capacity is based on 1% of your value. If your home is above I think it's like 550,000 it's taxed at 1.25. 25 commercial industrial at 1.5 and so that gets that tax capacity. The county adds up all that capacity and then they take our levy number and divide it into that capacity and that's what the tax rate that's how the tax rate is created. And so that rate is then multiplied against your tax capacity value to come with the taxes. So when you think of um that 43.36%, don't think of it as a percent. Think of it as that's the rate that's charged against your tax capacity value. >> I that makes I get that that you walked me through that. Thanks. And maybe my question is doesn't really have any value. I'm just I'm trying to think of a way to make it easier to digest. You know, what does that number represent? And maybe that's not an easy something easy to express beyond how you've already done it. Um >> I believe the number could only be higher if our levy was higher. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that's the like It's kind of like a catch 22. Like there's a benefit to explaining more. There's also a risk in trying to explain to someone how property taxes are calculated without like any background and not a lot of time. Like I've been doing this for a bit and it's like every year you still go back and like okay, how does that work again? And so like >> at the end of the day, I think I got feedback from the council once just don't show us story, just show us what the like what they pay in taxes and that's what we want to compare to other cities. And so that's kind of what you see. But we can >> I >> we can put it in any way that you think would be the most helpful that it's a kind of an ongoing narrative. But I think I've I feel a number of times when I start talking about tax capacity versus market value versus tax rate, it's like tell me what the bottom line is. And I think we see that expressed in just when people get their tax statements. Like a lot of the feedback that we tend to get is not specifically to the city. It's the bottom line number of county, city, and school and the other pieces. And I think you'll see that on the first as well. Um, but we are always open. If you think there's a better way to express this, we're happy to do that. >> Far be it from me to suggest a better way. I just, you know, when I see those numbers, I worry about somebody looking at that going, "Oh, geez, my taxes are uh when I see a percentage, >> I don't equate that to to anything else. I just see, oh, 43%." You've explained it. I'll I'll noodle over it before I decide that. >> Meanwhile, we could we could take the percentages off and just put it as 43.36 as the tax rate that it's helpful. >> I don't know that >> I don't think >> that's helpful. >> I don't think there's anything about it that's >> Sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to discuss. I agree because I see that number and I want to multiply it against something like is that 43% of my home value? is that 43% of like I and it's a big number and so I completely agree with Eric with what he's saying but there's not I don't think there is >> doesn't map in the traditional way we're trying to make it >> exactly >> I can just change the slide al together >> we'll just look forward to this super cool document you have >> well you said that >> it might be something we can experiment with instead of saying like 43.36 6. We moved the decimal cuz when they actually >> Yeah. >> do the equation 4336. >> It's 4336. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. I like >> that better. >> Uh-huh. >> Those of us who imply that it's the decimal, >> but someone who's >> I didn't imply that. >> Yeah, I was just trying to make it small. Yes, I can. >> I can absolutely make >> Okay, we can do that. Yeah, >> that makes sense. Yeah. Awesome. >> It helps for folks like me that are math challenged. >> I think educated in this will get that number and go every time. >> Yeah. >> So I I like to give up examples and obviously these are estimate estimates of um city of Carver tax. Um we have seven homes. I've been using the same seven homes. I think this is the third year. Um I know the address. You don't. Um but it's it's nice to compare the same seven um from year to year. So we have the actual market value and then the estimated market value. The estimates were available online, but they don't have the actual statements out to people yet. Um so we're able to see that from home one to home 7, the estimated market value, you know, it it varies depending on the home and and each home tells a story. That could be a deck improvement. we don't know uh what's going on there, but that also reflects on the actual city tax that that home is going to pay. Um and so you can see that it ranges from a decrease of $32 um in 2026 all the way up to $126 increase. Um so it's a calculation, it's math, but I like to give examples. Do you want this table to be simplified and just show actual versus estimated or >> No. >> I don't think there's anyone with this one. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Besides that one like it's higher than >> And also the one that their property value went up 5% but their taxes went down. >> Those are examples. You guys know real homes in our community. I know it's just I know. I know. >> I I don't fault the slide. I >> Yeah. >> They're just like, "Huh, that's interesting." Mhm. >> So then this this represents um a monthly city service invoice uh by taking the average valued homes tax, city of Carver tax, dividing it by 12 and saying, "Hey, if your property taxes for the city of Carver were a monthly bill, what would it look like?" So the average value of home would pay $161.64 a month. And what would it be for? Well, they would pay about $27 for parks maintenance, snow plowing, fleet, and facilities. Um, they would pay $24 for debt for streets and facilities all the way. Um, so I kind of like to do that. Fire protection, uh, $1753. That's a fun one. >> I love that one. >> I slide because it makes it you can understand where >> Right. Right. So, questions, comments. I got a lot of really good feedback already, but I'll take whatever else you pay. >> You go back to that last slide. >> Absolutely. >> The general government operations. >> Yes. >> All of us. >> So, general government operations, that would be a city buildings v, you know, like uh the church. It would be like um just um I think prime is in there. Um it would be >> Is that your ketchup? No, there's certain things that are assigned to it. Um building certain building repairs like the build some certain building repairs here that uh we have. So I can give you a list. I think am I anticipating your next question correctly and that it would be great to have that defined a little bit more >> especially if prime's in there like let's let know they're paying for prime. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> So a little definition. >> Yeah. I like maybe the, you know, the catchy ones that people will identify with. >> Absolutely. Catchy. >> Yeah, cuz you can kind of >> cuz everything else >> figure out everything else. Perfect. >> Any other thoughts, comments? chimp up to >> it's a bargain at any price. >> Um my only thoughts and I don't know Lynn we we harp and we harp and we harp on franchise fees but I think because our community doesn't have franchise fees it's hard to make that tangible. Is there any way to add just a little bit more of a definition in there of like in neighboring communities it could vary from$2 to $10 per utility per month or like figure out what that means, quantify it. >> Yeah, I would take direction from you. I because I don't know. I always use the stat of one year I looked and the city of Chaska made more in franchise fees than we had in our general fund budget that year and was a while back. I think it was like $3 million and that was significant for me. But I just think like that slide is great and we know what that means and I think there's a sense of pride that we don't have franchise fees but quantifying that so that my next door neighbor knows what that means kind of >> didn't we talk about this maybe a year ago and I think the hope was we would find one of our similarsiz cities that did this is there a public record like Chaza of what they collected so we could say that a similar size city collected not using that. Yeah. Now that you're saying that, I think I remember that the push back was that some people do it as a percentage of your bill. So if my cable bill is $300 a month, >> yeah, >> and yours is just a hundred. It's not a uniform. >> But they wouldn't matter if you're comparing it to the city as a whole, right? >> Oh, in general, would they their revenue? I don't know that we can compare ourselves to Chaza, but there are other cities closer to our size. And if they if there's a public record of how much they've collected in franchise fees, then you could >> we have that in your peer city review that we did for the strategic plan. >> You could make a comparison to a peer city of similar size >> to say this is money that >> Carver doesn't >> bill you, >> you know, any other ways. This is not part of what you pay the city. Yeah, >> if we think that's worth doing that, but that I think would be the way to do it. >> Yeah, if we I forgot that we had that from the >> Yeah, I mean we have the total number. I mean, a lot of times the percentage comes in on like where they make the big bucks is like the commercial and industrial properties. So, >> another >> right. So, you I would just based anecdotally, you're probably at $2 per. So, it's probably no more than $10 a month for a resident. So, you're you might be unimpressed with like the it might be $120, >> but it might be good to see the total numbers of you know, Jordan makes >> Oh, yeah. We have that already. >> $600,000. Yeah. >> Is that something anyone want to put on there? That would be helpful. >> Be good to know before we put on >> Oh, well, we had that in Lyn's memo for the long-term financial plan. Those numbers were in there in our meal. >> Of course they were. I remember that. >> Yeah, >> I think we all do. >> Second franchise fee side >> just to quantify it for folks because I think we say this thing and it's words, but my next door neighbor might not understand that it means real money that folks are making on these franchise fees. >> Not that we're leaning that way, but just like that's the alternative. And >> and I like >> don't compare us to Jordan and say their taxes are so low because they're digging you on your >> cable bill. And I like kind of more defining it about how it's collected like on Excel. Maybe it would be per bill, you know, or percentage, >> right? Okay. Great. And I for the record, I don't know if Jordan is collecting franchise fees or not throws in that metal. Um but I Yeah, that'd be great to have that happen. Um the other thing that I was thinking of and you probably saw me kind of switching back and forth a little bit to the strategic action plan is I was trying to think of you know like tying the two together because we talk so much you know we did so much work on our strategic action plan to have enhanced financial strength and I think the work that we're doing to set up our capital funds a little bit more um really demonstrates that goal and if folks wonder why it's not because we just want to put in more money in these funds. It's not so that it like it literally all comes back to that. So I don't know if there's a way even if that's just kind of part of your talk track for the presentation just to tie it back to that because again like everything we do here comes back to a plan that very specifically comes back to the strategic action plan. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think we I think that sounds great. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> May only other smile minor minor thing is on your actual slide eight on the bottom you have all of 2019 2020 and then the last one says just 26. Can you put it as 2026? >> Oh say but it doesn't match the rest. >> The words didn't fit. >> Proposed one didn't fit. >> Proposed 2026 didn't fit. >> Yeah. It looped around. So you have room. >> Okay. Yep. Slide eight. Uh, it's on 18. No, it's on 18. >> 18. Okay. All right. And we're all set for the taxation. Beautiful in a couple weeks. All right. Um, okay. Up next, uh, Mr. Schmidt, we've got the LI grant application. Yep. Cute. All right. Good evening, Mayor and Council. So tonight, um, what we wanted to do is we wanted to run over the LI application, talk about the scope of that application for that project, and then ultimately we'd be coming back to council in December to do a formal resolution um, for that application. Um, so that application is due on December 12th. So that's kind of the cadence of what we're trying to do here. But tonight, we just want to look at the scope with you. Uh just so you're all aware of of what we're going to be applying for. So, um just some background. This is on the the old County Road 40 turnback. Um this has been um a corridor that has been in the works for a few years. The council approved a corridor, a turnback agreement with the county in December of 2022. And subsequently the next year um a corridor uh vision committee was was put together and we developed some some visions for the corridor and that was ultimately approved by the council in late u November of 23. We therefore turned around and we put together an application for LRIP in the spring of 24 um in which we were not successful for uh we were pretty close. We just missed the cutoff and LRIP came out again this fall which is the local road improvement program. It's a through the office of state aid at MIDOT and that opened up again and we're hopeful that um putting together another application for that we could be successful this time around for funding. So >> is it an every other year thing or is it as as funded >> as as funded by the program? So, okay. So, just for some context, I think everybody knows what Old 40 is, but it's basically stretches from Jonathan Carver Parkway through the heart of downtown Carver and then out towards uh County Road 61, stopping at the city limit line just short of that intersection at 61. So, just a few um photos for context which we'll be talking about here. Obviously a few key intersections in downtown, one of which is by Casey's, another by Broadway and Main Street, and then um just a a view going out of downtown there towards 61. And then also a lot of things on the west end of the project um that we're going to talk about tonight, not specific to LRIP, but um some things that we're looking at doing in the future along that piece of the roadway as well. So what we've really identified is there's a key two key intersections like I mentioned in the downtown area which I highlighted there in yellow and then there's just some core roadway rehab needs obviously the piece going out of town towards 61. That's um you know Andrew had to make some repairs to that this summer and those issues are going to continue to uh degrade as as time goes on. So, we need to start thinking about making some some long-term improvements to that uh piece of the corridor. So, we'll be talking about that. Um, good. Keep going. We'll be talking about that here tonight, what we want to do with that. So, um, with that being said, what we're proposing to the council is number one, that core roadway maintenance out towards, uh, 61, that would be a reclamation project. So, you get a brand new pavement section in that stretch of the roadway. Um then from Sixth Street down to Fourth Street, which is kind of the area by Casey's, we'd be looking at um rehabbing the pavement, but then also looking at improving that intersection at Mount Hope Road with the bad skew angle. So really um trying to make that sight line better and um improving those intersection uh turning movements. So, um, here from Fourth Street through Broadway, there's a mill and overlay planned on that stretch of the roadway on these two blocks. And then lastly down here by Broadway and Maine, looking at some intersection improvements there with some um, additional parking enhancements as well in that piece of downtown. So, what are some of the things that aren't included in the application at this point? Number one, um we talked about wanting to make a trail connection out to Jonathan Carver Parkway along Main Street West. Um that stretch of the roadway is actually planned to have um street maintenance done in 2033. So due to the the cost of that trail extension, that's it's about a $3 million extension to go all the way out to Jonathan Carver. Um we we think it's best to defer that. um let's put together a dedicated funding plan for that piece of trail and then by 2033 we could do all that work together um in a coordinated project with the roadway itself. So that's one item that currently is not in the application. The second is we've been talking a lot about Mount Hope Road. Um that's actually part of the 2026 street improvements project. So that's a planned project already in our system. It's a state aid project. Um, and that would be where that would be captured is part of um a future review by the council um here in December to talk about the 2026 streets. So, here's just the project location map. Um, I included it here. This is what we'd be referencing in the LRIP application for all those things that I just mentioned. Uh, next what I want to do is I I kind of want to just go through each area and just talk about some of the nuances. Um, so we'll start out here. This is the first um entry point into downtown coming from Chaza. Um, this is where that Mount Hope intersection improvement would would be happening. So you can see here the Mount Hope road has a very flat skew angle. It's a dangerous sight line. turning movements are very difficult um for a collector roadway network. So, what we'd be doing is looking at making some substantial improvements to that area. Um in addition, looking at some um pedestrian mobility pieces for navigating this, you know, you're close to Depot Park um and the regional trail network for Minnesota Bluff Regional Trail. So, really trying to make this a nice central hub into downtown. Um, making it feel like you're entering kind of a gateway to the city and also slowing traffic down and allowing for those pedestrian movements at this intersection to occur in a in a safe fashion. So, this was the original concept that we put together during the visioning phase. Um, one thing that really kind of changed the game was the 490 Old Carver Road acquisition. So, this is something that the council um, authorized here. What was it last meeting? So, that that in itself provides for a lot of flexibility. It really kind of opens up that area and allows us to kind of think more freely into what what we could do in that area. Um, we've talked about a number of things from, you know, just making it more of a conventional T intersection. Um, we've thrown about thrown about the roundabout concept. Um, so the the key for tonight is we don't need to decide on any of those things tonight, the intersection, for the reasons that I just stated. So, we don't have to to talk about, you know, what does the intersection look like exactly tonight. if we move forward with a project, that is a time when we'll we'll talk about all those things and be able to really, you know, get down into those details. But >> I have a question for you then. Yeah. >> So, if we if you're going to put this as part of a grant application? >> Yep. >> So, then you don't have to put dollar amounts in because obviously the two um options that we've been presented with are going to be very differently priced, I would assume. Um so, how does that work? working for sending in a grant application. >> It's for for purposes of the grant. I I put enough money in there to make sure that kind of regardless of what we did, we're going to be safe. So, they're actually not that much difference. You know, they're going to be plus or minus, you know, probably one to 200,000 to be honest with you. It's not going to be like a half a million dollar difference. So, we we allowed I I'll show you when we get to the estimates. We have some like scoping contingency and those sorts of things built into it. So um that's that's the approach that we took at this phase >> because I think there's going to be some heavy discussion about these two options. So but you can still send in the grant application >> in the slides we he has both of those and we'll want feedback tonight on like design elements that you like and don't like so that we have a little bit of a clearer picture. You don't we're not going to put you in a position where we have to say I want this there and that there. But if there are elements that you like and dislike about either, that'll be helpful to us as we continue. >> Mhm. So, uh, this is just a slide. I think we know, you know, why this was an important decision for council. So, we'll just keep moving on. So, so based on that, we kind of put together a refined um concept design, I'll call it, for these for this intersection. So, you know, option one was that kind of more conventional teed intersection. And as Brent alluded to, there's there's pros and cons to both, which we'll be able to get to at a later date. But, you know, looking at what what does the council want that parcel to to look like post project? I think that's a key consideration that we'll need to look into. Um, impacts the depot park on the opposite side of the road. you know, how how those two things work together is going to kind of dictate our guiding principles, per se, for how we lay out the design. Um, another big piece is obviously speed control, you know, coming into downtown. So, I think, um, we can all probably acknowledge that we want to really try to check traffic speeds coming into this area. So, that'll be a big piece. And then ultimately, what what aesthetic treatments do we want as kind of that one of two gateways into the downtown as we're dubbing it? So, >> I I do think it would be helpful just to have the council say what they like and don't like about each of them. Sure. Just so we can have some >> um big picture concept. So, if the council wouldn't mind just on this one, say what elements they like and don't like, you know, um that'd be helpful as we kind of start uh workshopping this at a staff level. >> Aaron, is this slightly different from the original concept? >> Yeah. So what what we did on this is we really we sat down at a staff level and we said let's let's try to accommodate turning movements for you know truck traffic in this area since they're two collector roads. So this this geometry is set up to accommodate um a small, you know, semmit truck turning movement and then also a large single unit like box truck without fully having to like encroach into the opposite traffic lane. >> A right-hand turn coming I assume this is north coming south. >> Yes. South then up to Mount Hope >> without having to like swing way into the other lane. So that was >> one of the things we really focused on. And does that take out the original concept had kind of a new driveway into Casey's? >> Yes. So what what this one shows is with that new geometry, the intersection kind of slid more to the north >> just to make that radius work. So that's a great point, mayor, is at what point like how far north is too much to get into the depot park, you know? So that's we're just kind of keeping the driveways as shown now. Okay. But you could you could still bring a driveway in um to Casey's, but it would just start to kind of creep into the park area. So good discussion item. >> No, I So just to be clear, the entrances to Casey's remain unchanged in this concept. >> Yes. Correct. >> No, I I don't love the idea of taking more away from Depot Park than we have to. >> Okay. >> You got thoughts on this one? >> Lot of thoughts. Um, no, I like So, this was the the original concept that we had. This is similar. So, I did like that one a lot of um all the things that we're going to be looking at. So, this to me is very similar to it. Um, I like this that we I don't I don't want a roundabout in that location. Um, I just think it is kind of an obnoxious thing to have in this this area where I think this solves the problems that we're looking to solve with, you know, being able to take the right up the hill. And when you come into place into town areas that are established for hundreds of years, sometimes it road configurations are just what they are going to be. They can't be perfect. So, I don't think I think if we're looking at a gateway into town, a roundabout there, it's not this like nice gateway. It actually blocks it blocks your view as you're coming down the road. So, I would prefer this one to the other one. Whatever that actual configuration kind of looks like in the end. I mean, I'm assuming because we've got like the little paper bricks and stuff. This one doesn't have the aesthetics obviously in it, but uh I prefer this. I think this works well. Again, we we acquired that property. we can make that turn there. I also do like the fact that Casey's entrances just stay and remain where they are and they're working now, so they can just continue to work. Um, yeah, this would be my own vote on this one. >> Lori, >> um, can you go to one of the earlier slides? It's I think it's number 14 out of 22 or it might be 13 out of 22. Um, so I noticed that there's the three um like >> configurations. >> I want to make sure that we roll that list like >> if there's anything else we would consider. Um, >> and I know right now we're actually looking like to see what each of our each of us think. Oh, but >> two items. We're considering two things right now, >> which is >> slides. The slide that Aaron was on and then the following one is a roundabout. Um, so that one has the roundabout. >> No. So, can you go back to >> Yep. Yeah, >> please. So, we're considering this one and then we're getting feedback like one at a time. So, >> Okay. Okay. >> This is what's on the table right now. >> Okay. Got it. Um, but I guess the thing is I only see two and I would want to see, you know, >> and maybe we don't spend much time, but just really a >> I don't want to only have two options. like maybe maybe we do need a a traffic light. I mean, maybe not, but >> I think that's an I think we know we don't need a traffic light there. I think that's an kind of an exercise in futility that we're just going to be, hey, Aaron for all the work. There are costs associated with that. So, best steward of the taxpayers's dollar, >> I'm fine with these two options. I think >> I would want to know why we ruled out a stoplight and I >> because we're not putting a stoplight there. like I >> it won't meet signal warrants. There's not >> Okay. Okay. So, it's just if it's not warranted like it won't solve it won't solve what we're trying to solve. Okay. So, that was one of my things. Um I do like the um option. Do they both take into consideration the truck turning? >> Yes, they do. >> Okay. That to me I think is great. That's important. Then my next thing would be safety. I guess all of us, you know, and then the speed like we've been able to do things for other stuff where it's like that calming effect. um that um would be important. Um I am okay with a roundabout if it accomplishes what we need to with those other things coming first. Um it's maybe not as aesthetic pleasing, but if it has to be done, um and I could give up some of the green space at depot park if we can depending what we would gain, you know, if it was going to be parking or made it more walkable. But I mean, obviously in this design, it's doesn't seem to warrant it, but um >> do I hear you saying of these two you prefer the roundabout? >> Um >> I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I just want to be clear on where you stand. >> I I lean towards the roundabout, but I'm open to even more than just these two ideas, but we're beyond that. But um I lean towards the roundabout. >> Ask you a question though, right? >> Yeah. >> If you're leaning towards the roundabout, so when we see we've owned the property, now we're the get or getaway for the gar. Um so if you look from these slides to slides, we're actually because we are >> one of our options is to resell this property, right, for resale. Now, if we go with the roundabout, we've actually taken up more of that property and we've taken depot park property. So, you're saying that you're fine with taking park property and taking property that may become resale and we taking off land square footage on it? >> Yes. >> Okay. I can explain why, but >> just because we're short on time, I want to give you guys >> Yeah, I just needed to on this and then we'll break and we'll resume it at the meeting. >> Sure. >> Oh, I didn't realize. Sorry. >> Uh I am I much prefer the T intersection. Um, I don't think >> Great. Next. Not kidding. >> I I don't think that the amount of traffic that goes through that intersection on a frequent basis warrants the additional impact to the traffic pattern and to the land surrounding it as well as to the aesthetic value in order to have a roundabout. That's my opinion. >> Thank you. If I can be quick, uh, I prefer the T for all the reasons we just discussed, preserving future repurposing of 490, not taking away from Depot Park. Uh, I'm for the first one, >> and I think I already alluded to this. I have nothing I have no issues with the roundabout. It would be awkward there. However, if we can turn a truck or a fire truck or a box truck or an 18 wheeler, whatever we need to from Old Carver Road up Mount Folk Road with the T, then that's my preference. All right, with that, um, we will give you more time in the meeting. Perfect. >> Um, but I would entertain a motion to make a motion to adjourn. >> Motion by council member. Second, second by council member S. All say I same. Motion passes.