tree bank 50 trees that we can plant along along the boulevard if the commission wants to recommend they do less trees than the staff report recommends you can certainly do again that's a maybe a better question for the council i just wanted to bring it up because i'm trying to figure out you know what if they they can't get all those trees but on their site [Music] chairman may i ask a question related to trees on the boulevard absolutely i noticed that in the staff section it did say that you had worked significantly with saint therese and that this had to be closer on this uh this section f this one that runs right along the boulevard just because of the unique design that they had they wanted to draw people in and i guess i'm just asking in the pictures it does show balconies on that side and i meant to note it earlier but are you really going to be able like that would be the place where it'd be beautiful to see some of those overstory trees that grow 40 to 70 feet tall because those are the highest buildings but is that going to be possible to get the breadth of growth with some of the balconies uh with as close as it is that was just i don't know if you want to answer it or if it's just to be noted but question happy day that was actually a concern of ours as well there was a we learned that there was a 15 foot maximum setback for the building so we actually had to move the building closer to the street for recommendation from landform uh canada so yeah it is it's a concern of ours but we were meeting the requirements in order to do so and is can i ask a follow-up question i'm really sorry no um is is that because is that i know that that's a requirement that's in the southeast design district design is that for the like more of the commercial type business that that maximum was set in rather than residential mr chair commissioner no that that is a maximum setback that applies for anything that would be developed anything okay okay thank you um and so i i wanted to comment um on the the uh the safety memo uh the wonderful illustrations page three and four the fine level of detail um i'm surprised though that they didn't come colored fire truck reds i looked it i first didn't know what i was looking at a lot of fun internally with those imagery yes we did okay all right um not city of corcoran created images i will say that no corcoran staff participated in the creation okay all right so um does anybody have any other follow-up questions or discussion now it was suggested throughout the staff report that we discuss four different items street edge architecture signage and landscape i is everybody fine with where we're at on those issues i i mean now that you brought it up though that street edge thing um you know a minimum build to um line at 15 feet it's hard to put any kind of tree in there and to get any shade for those top story residents who are getting the morning sun all day i mean i i guess i would i don't understand maybe some of the logic there if you can't hardly put a tree in there without it hitting the building at some point in the future yeah mr chair so as far as the design for the parkway it would be a tree-lined median as well as tree-lined between the street and the sidewalk so there's two opportunities for trees from the public infrastructure so the public tree infrastructure versus private essentially okay and then assuming all that pruning all that trimming then is maintained by the city correct and i'm assuming this is very premature that the type of trees that will be planted in the median whether they're over story or you know in terms of its height right yeah and chair and and commission members that's something that more significant planning is going to have to take place really this plan is it's well and detailed until you're about ready to construct it and you find out how many other details are the next level to do so i think that's certainly a discussion that's going to have to be had okay so regarding uh signage so then as i see it if if saint therese wishes to put signage on their property at one of the entrances there's only three points that they could do that correct mr cherry i believe that that would be correct the primary based on the site plan the primary entrances are going to be in that southeast corner and then i think the other day idea is that other access point to the west going up to that main parking lot shown about halfway up and then i suppose theoretically they could put a sign [Music] facing city center drive for our discussion this will be more of a service entry i believe yeah so their main entrance would really be this yeah down here those two areas we the cities require them to connect this corner otherwise they would not even connect with this area so it's really meant to be more service oriented for the building well so on page three of the first resolution uh item f and and this may be totally irrelevant as far as discussion of signage but it says mechanical equipment must be fully screened from view in a way that is integral to the architecture of the building this equipment may not be located in the front yard the plants must be revised to show compliance so what are we considering to be the front yard then i mean they basically have well they don't have frontage right off of 116 so it can't be anything on the west side mr chair that's correct so basically we would define the front yard as the area um adjacent to 79th place in city center drive so really most of it is front yard i believe from discussions with the applicant they've talked about rooftop mechanical equipment and so we're just asking for a screening plan for that where i don't think there is concern about it really being placed in a front yard at this point did you get an explanation for what the white things were on the elevation of it it kind of odd place to put it but you know i could see it all right okay um any other planning discussion questions mr chair yes okay if i answer the questions for both dan and by all means henry as well by all means proud please so uh we talked about main entrance locations so as we've talked about here um there's the 79th place which is basically across from your house there right here um and then really the south entrance of city hall would be the main entrance to the downtown so eventually that would have a stop light at the south entrance of city hall at that location at 79th place across from your house it would be a full intersection but not not a stop sign or a stoplight but our whole goal is to design this area to slow down um the city worked with hennepin county for many many years to really make sure this area is able to be able to slow down to not a 50 mile per hour power zone in the future and that's actually why it's no longer a state aid highway because you need to maintain speeds for that to happen so it's a different level of road that we intend to pump as much down as possible for speed but those would be the main locations there well will that other drive to the east go all the way down to 10 not the idea so this image here so this we're talking about the south entrance of city hall currently and then this parkway correct would go all the way down to county road 10 to another main entrance to downtown so 79th place would be right here and i think you're right there and then eventually i think we have a plan right in right out down here as well in the future so would they add turn leads on 116 correct and we'd have to design what that would look like in the interim conditions because we envisioned the house for you and dan being there for as long as possible so we'd have to make sure we designed interim conditions of what that looks so there's space whether it's so that'd be part of the design and then i don't know if it's okay to ask calvin could you talk through dan's conversation on garbage pickup and when that would take place um he doesn't or barb i am bob rodie i'm the ceo of centuries and usually on our campuses we have them picked up two different locations but yeah we usually have two different locations for trash but they pick them up twice a day and certainly it would they would any vendor that we have come in would adhere to any of the ordinances as far as noise and sound and things like that and i have to tell you that [Music] our residents make very good neighbors i mean you couldn't ask neighbors and people there so they don't make noise a lot of them are in bed by eight nine o'clock like myself but they're great neighbors so and i have to say the city has worked so well with us you know we're willing to do whatever they recommend for us because we would follow any ordinance unless there's some approval to change something so um i think we've done really great together to to get those you have a lot of great people in the city so i just wanted to add that because i never get to tell that to the cities that you have any other questions and the lights we will make sure that they're dimmed down i mean they're focused down we've done that on all of our campuses that doesn't shine on to the neighbors or anything like that okay and mr i will add actually the council just approved new standards for garbage collection that are between 7 a.m and 6 p.m yeah so we actually will have those teeth starting next year for holidays correct yeah so we will follow that with them anything else i just also would like to add um speaking about noise the city council did approve a ordinance amendment last week that will take effect january 1st for construction activity so that will be further limited eight to four on the weekends and seven to seven during the week so hopefully that will give you a little bit more of a reprieve than what you're getting right now i'm sure since you've asked i should have mentioned in the public hearing that um jim chamberlain and i'm on 20969 county road 50. and i just thought it was pretty interesting in the in the preamble natalie mentioned that this building and this facility matches the current proposed vision for downtown and i thought that was interesting and i don't really have an opinion on that but i just thought can someone elaborate on what that vision is and what i don't know in 20 years that you expect the downtown courtroom to look like brad by all means i mean i think i know what the answer i mean we have a we have a uh a section in our ordinance that's that's got all the information that we've planned but of course it it they're just guidelines and they're just plans that map is always subject to change depending upon uh you know uh future development you know timing and and and market trends and and whatnot so um there there is a vision out there but boy i'll tell you it's anybody's guess maybe right now as to when that might happen i i think the reason why we kind of drew it this way is because we keep trying to make sure that people don't feel like they're coming to a nursing home because that is the worst thing for anybody to say i don't want to go to a nursing home it's uncomfortable it it they don't want to be kind of segmented that they're old or older and so we are trying to make sure that we do the best we can in just there's another generation but this is a little bit more modern style or something to that effect when they talked about urban that's when all those these ideas came through and i'm just going to tell you that the storefronts there's going to be one for residents to sell their crafts and so people from the community can come in and buy or look at their crafts that they sell which so many are absolutely talented we have authors we have real painters and things like that the other one maybe an ice cream store if we can partner with the store in town you know when we have the amphitheater going everybody can come get an ice cream cone so it's stuff like that that we really want to highlight on our campus so it draws in that the residents to like run the store things like that so it's better for the residents definitely to have a purpose and to show their talents that they have thank you may i address this question um so being a newer um resident to the area if you it's really really long but if you go to the code the city code and you start at about 540 page 540 they have developed in there which my understanding is it started in 2015 was kind of when it was being developed under the guidance of some input from the met council as the musa line begins to extend this way um so anyway there's a plan in there that kind of talks about a vision for that area to hit a chairman's point who knows if it will like things can flex and change i think it's interesting um you know if yeah how much wiggle room that vision gives but that's where it was helpful for me to at least start there and to begin to understand this so that's where i would say if you have the time and the access and if you don't i'd be happy to give you my copy for a while okay any other further discussions comments all right um so then as we look at the resolutions that we must [Music] take our pulse on as a recommendation to the city council is there any changes that anybody can think of that we need to or wish to make and i'll just bring it up since i've brought it up before we'll talk at age three of the resolution item eight k two do we want to change anything regarding the minimum of the overstory trees or do we want to just leave it as is all right to clarify right now it just says as is they need to up the number of trees and shrubs and some of the ideas that you had proposed were possibly giving them an opportunity to utilize some of those trees to be future trees that the city puts in the boulevard yeah i'll think it outside the box you know i'm not a landscape architect um but uh you know there i think there's there's maybe some creative things we can do if we want the 259 trees but maybe they don't fit on the site i'm just again throwing it out there if our recommendation if we don't change this then the city council they have of course the authority to do whatever they wish to it as it is or as as we recommend um but if we don't feel that strongly that you know hey it's 259 trees or nothing or you can make it to the equivalent by substituting with understory trees then then that's if the council agrees to that then um it'll be up to staff and and the applicant to determine that mix at some point in the future well i'd like to jump on on the idea of a couple of more mature trees particularly because of the height of the project and so i would like to suggest that maybe i'd be willing to give some credit for more than one tree if it's not just a you know beginner tree okay in some well-placed locations yeah now the code is very specific about landscape requirements tree sizes i know that there was a comment in the staff report that out of the number of trees that the city would like to see i think there's five or seven the applicant has chosen to delineate on their plan only two the staff would like to see a greater variety [Applause] [Music] so [Music] our our city councilors are here so they heard that i would like to agree with you on that and maybe that's something we could codify later you know to say well we're willing to codify if you put in bigger trees you get credit for some other number but at this point it's just going to have to be hey we'd sure like to see that and if they can if they can come up to agree to something to that to that that's up to them yep so i like it though all right um well on page two then under eight we talked about um the curb the street edge um is there anything that are we comfortable with as it's written we didn't really talk a whole lot about it whether fences low-rise concrete trees bushes again they don't have a lot of detail here so i think if we just leave it as is and let the staff and the applicant work on it they'll come up with something that'll yeah i don't have any strong feeling personally that it can't work but i don't have a design in front of me you know me if i made one comment at all i understand this street edge concept but um i i think that maybe there ought to be and we could certainly always suggest it but maybe there ought to be a little bit more flexibility based on the your particular lot or the particular building type that maybe we can give them you know we allow people to encroach upon setbacks all the time you know if they want more room or need more room to set it back you know we can certainly allow that but okay all right is there any mention of the primary building the proposed mix of building materials in the resolution i don't use that i believe it is i just need to locate it let's see it okay so it's uh eight c two and it's actually on the top of page of three seven so primary and secondary building material percentages as required by the southeast district plan okay so then the only other thing and i don't know whether it needs to be written in here is whether they would it's just an idea to consider of adhering to those percentages on the primary on the public building faces and perhaps some leniency on the interior building faces of the site and that i come across that quite a bit actually because it's a way to it's something that everyone you know it's exercised a lot i would see it i think the one one problem that we might have here is what's public almost private well no it's just that if the front if the front is 79th avenue there's not nearly as much siding or as close to the road as what we would now consider the backyard which is a long city center drive well i'm saying any public street so i'm saying 79th and city center trying that covers three-fourths of the building that's right because otherwise they have to do 100 of it so this is a break and you know what it's up to city council this is a suggestion it's something that i've seen done and it you know maybe there are other you don't think that's enough of the break enough of the compromise okay so are you suggesting a change to the resolution no i'm not actually i think the resolution should be written as it's written i just offered that as a something to consider i don't want to change the text okay the staff we've heard you loud and clear so yeah it's fine you've got it okay all right so we have two resolutions uh we can if there's no changes to either one we'll just take uh one vote to approve them both at the same time so we have a proving a recommending approval of a preliminary plat for the town center edition and we have a resolution recommending approval of a site plan and conditional use permit for the property 8200 county road 116. would anybody like to make a motion [Music] to recommend approval to measure drummond or bremen go for it sure i'll make a motion yeah cut your teeth sometime right all right do i have a second i'll second that oops all right all those in favor of recommending approval of the preliminary plat and the site plan and conditions permit say aye aye opposed it is so recommended approved thanks everybody for all your work and help and we look forward to your development i have an elderly okay [Music] [Music] okay um are we good to go or does anybody need a break you know the pregnant lady needs a break [Music] uh is 9 27 uh how about 9 35 is that would that be sufficient okay we'll stand in recess until nine thirty five meredith do you want to mention anything at the end of the meeting do i i can he knows that's up to you don't you know what i'm resigned well i did not know that i had a chance to catch you before meredith put a resignation on us this week why because there's how many other people who want to be planning commissioners it's great i've had a chance and it's time for someone else to have a chance look we got mark well we're certainly gonna miss you i mean yeah but i've been doing it a while i gotta i gotta do some other stuff too yeah so no i will miss it i can always come back yeah okay but yeah so you know with so many applicants i thought now it was a good time wow i got nothing else to do but golf with my father boy i wish i had to roll my lawn until until my wife fully retires do you start parties or do you serve the horses or did you get you're right now we're trying to find in the packets but we're going to do a better job of them describing them well yeah amazing you're exactly right yeah but they're both still good trail horses and stuff but uh yeah the feeding requirements getting a little intense i have two arthritic layers i can ride one provided i give her a joint injector joints pretty much yeah the other girl i can't ride her i mean i can sit on her but she's i mean her joints click when she walks she's she's had it jeremy i got your chest she didn't have a good answer for you yet and my husband says they're gonna leave for another time up north you know i don't want to have to then all of a sudden go all right now i got to get rid of the horses i got to close in 30 days i know you can't as soon as our girls as soon as i'm used interesting nobody was jumping at the bed you know except for maybe our original which is our best trailhead you know for a little bit of strength yeah you know and they've always said oh yeah we'd love to have that john you want something building 45 50 horses it's hot on old points and and it was just like i we don't have heard horses and i can see where you know you don't want to work you don't get to eat yeah all the horses don't do well because they don't i just went no it's got to go to somebody who's a couple maybe yeah they won't get the care it's as soon as our two girls go i'm moving back to australia as soon as they go see the girls oh you're fine i'm selling them waiting i can press arrows i've got to get home but i can't like i can't i can't wait good job yeah i'm well you know i attended that planning commission maybe i was there i attended a planning commission meeting by zoo but i wasn't there no i was with my sister i mean i was just visiting [Music] but yeah i know it's hard with the older horses i love the mayors but it's just any location all right that could be that bright your house and there's no way they ended up [Music] [Music] okay [Music] so we had that difference [Music] well we'll again we'll sure miss you yeah i'm going to miss it but i think it's you can watch this on zoom you know you just raise your hand and you can talk anything listen here chair idiot i remember when what are you thinking no i think it's a good time i think there's people that are interested and that's great because we never i mean there were years when we needed people right you know we're all missing we're all missing the monthly happy hour well we need uh building activities [Music] tomorrow all right that gets nearly ready [Music] okay can you turn us on yeah all right we will uh call this planning commission meeting back to order and our next item on the agenda is item 7c public hearing zonium amendment for [Music] non-conformities and i must admit after reading this whole report and stuff i my i think i was saying non-conformities in my sleep at night it was kind of scary but um anyway we will entertain the staff report please thank you mr chair so a 2021 priority identified by staff was to update the non-conformity section of our city code as it has not been updated for several years and the minnesota state statute has been updated so this is to bring the city code into compliance with state statute as well as provide some clarity in areas where we have found to be lacking so the prevailing minnesota statute provides protections for non-conformity and was revised in 2004 2005 and 2009 we have not revised our city code since march of 2004 so the definition of non-conforming lot was under debate earlier this year at a council meeting and staff was directed to clearly define this term within city code so this is addressing both of these concerns the section first section that we would be changing basically includes adding or slightly tweaking eight different eight definitions in our definitions section uh specifically the expansion enlargement or intensification improvement replacement reconstruction or restoration and that's i should make that clear that's one term replacement reconstruction or restoration interim use non-conforming buildings and structures non-conforming lot non-conforming use and then changing simply just changing the title of use permitted to permitted use to be in line with the rest of our phrases this next section we are proposing to remove subdivision one of section 103.010 and replacing it with general standards of applicability this clarifies the authority for non-conformities to continue clarifies that there is a burden on the property owner to establish the legality of their non-conforming use structure or lot and that also goes over safety regulations subdivision two specifically focuses on non-conforming uses and identifies how the city will handle ordinary repairs and maintenance structural alterations expansion of use specifically that they that is not permitted changes to non-conforming uses discontinuation or abandonment and damage or destruction to non-conforming uses subdivision iii is specifically looking at non-conforming buildings and structures the proposed language does add limited protection for recently approved structures but not yet existing in addition to clarifying rights granted to existing non-conforming buildings and structures staff proposes continuation of an administrative and conditional use permit process that does allow expand expansion of non-conforming buildings and structures under specific conditions subdivision 4 focuses on non-conforming lots it removes a clause that we have for a lot combination in shoreland overlay districts that is believed to be in direct contradiction with state statute so we are removing that it covers how the city will handle vacant and redeveloped lots and develop lots and lots within our shoreland overlay district it also clarifies that sorry clarifies that lot within the rural residential and urban reserve must have a development right in order to be developed subdivision 5 simply would be completely added this is not we currently don't have a subdivision and it would focus on exceptions to our non-conformity regulations specifically and this is what has allowed per state statute and would specifically give the city a little more wiggle room for non-conforming non-conformities within floodplain areas when we need to avoid increases in flood damages or obstructions and then non-conforming adult uses if that would ever pop up in our community so at this time the planning commission should open the public public hearing and take comments and staff recommends approval of the ordinance amendment the resolutions of private approving findings of fact and then the summary ordinance for publication [Music] okay great thank you um all right at this point we'll uh open up the public hearing uh is there anyone in our audience that would like to speak right now is there anybody online members of the public joining us by zoom please utilize the raise your hand function under the reactions tab or under the participants tab if you'd like to participate in the non-conformities public hearing at this time no one is raising their hand mr chair i really thought this was going to be the hot button issue if it didn't just lull everybody to sleep while reading it but um or you know trying to trying to figure out all the sections um but all right uh it doesn't look like there's anybody to speak uh in the public hearing um do i have a motion to close the public hearing i'll make that to anybody all right all those in favor of closing the public hearing say aye aye opposed this public hearing is closed all right commission discussion and recommendation commissioner lanternman would you like to lead off for us please or you can defer i really don't have anything to add did you read this okay all right commissioner brummond i don't have anything to add other than like it it reads like code right so if there was any way to change that but otherwise nothing okay commercial why did it take why has it not been updated since 2004 did it just was never contested or it looks like the state had updated several times we didn't have a natalie for a long time okay yeah commissioner it was identified i think as far back as 2019 something that we needed to change and no one had i don't think anyone anything's really come up with the shoreline district and that was like the glaring one i think there was a couple other things that i was like we should probably remove that when consulting with the city attorney but nothing has ever been really contested um it but we did want to go ahead and get this updated so it doesn't come up in the future okay yeah i don't actually have any questions i mean it took it was some pretty happy reading i don't actually have any questions about it i do i must have looked into this way too much no that's okay that's all right these are minor things so i'd like to start on page six of the report section d1 so it says a change in use is deemed to occur when existing when an existing non-conforming use has been terminated and another use has commenced any change in use in violation of these ordinance is zoning ordinances deemed an abandonment of the previously existing lawful non-conforming use what if the what if the other use is lawful is not in violation of the zoning ordinance um change of use is deemed to occur when an existing non-performing use has been terminated that another use has commenced it so basically even if it is a legal use that they've changed it to you cannot go back to the non-conforming use i think the the latter is just a clarification that anything in violation of the zoning ordinance is definitely an abandonment of the previously used as well you can't go back to the non-conforming use so basically we're saying but so if it changes in use again i i don't have quite the legal mind as as our as our um other commissioner uh landerman has but as i read it then it just says that you know one has been terminated another has commenced okay any change in the use in violation of the ordinance is deemed an abandonment but if it's not in violation of these zoning ordinance is a change in use then allowed a change in use in viola not in violation of the zoning ordinance is definitely allowed in fact encouraged that's what we want to see what we're saying is you can't go back once you've changed the use you've abandoned it and you can't go back to it so basically okay i can understand yeah so i mean we have we have a couple of parcels where they are now non-conforming uses because they're in our commercial district but they have houses so if they go to get to a point where they're not using those houses for residential use anymore and they're using it for office space they can't go back to using it for residential they have to continue using it for office space if they were to use those house for an illegal use they still can't go back to the residential space okay but to go from residential then to a use in an office assumes then i or i'm assuming then that the office use is permitted under the zoning correct so opposites would be permitted in that situation but if they were to like trying to think of an example if they were to use it for something in violation of our code i'm trying to think of a good example here um rental would then would that be something oh what would it be multi-family or rental or it would be a violation no rental wouldn't be in violation of it because it's residential use um but if like let's say they're using the space in a way that's more industrial than it is for a commercial it's a violation of our zoning ordinance but just because it's they they then can't say okay well we'll go back to using it for residential use we're saying absolutely not you've abandoned that use you need to use it for conforming use going forward on the same page section e discontinuation or abandonment i find this particularly interesting at this point in time because of covid and i think that there is one business that i'm just wondering you know how do you determine the timeline and i'm i'm speaking relative to the 1050 yeah so now i see here at the bottom of section e the period of such discontinuance caused by government action or uncontrolled events must not be included in calculation in calculating the length of the discontinued use of this section so you know say they've been closed out you know they have not opened officially for business or let's just say 18 months but 14 of those months they they couldn't i mean i'm just throwing numbers out there um who kind of who kind of determines what these timelines are in the amount of time and and to that number i mean to that extent assuming that the 1050 is still you know meeting code health health codes and all this and that let's say they open their doors for two weeks does that then end the discontinuance but then they close it again i mean somebody doing it just so that they don't fall into that 12 month just that that 12-month time period where they're not open is there a time of period when somebody can open the door conduct business and then close it again and restart the clock mr chair theoretically yes they could do that if that's if they're really but i mean at that point why what are you hanging on to if you're only operating two weeks out of the year well and they are conforming use the 1050 right okay it's a commercial its own commercial yeah so well i would think their parking makes them a non-conforming that would be that's a non-conforming lock sure yeah that's a non-conforming parking would be non-conforming structure so that's different um this is specifically for yeah like a use yeah okay but my question still goes what who's who would be determining when this is no longer hey you no longer can use that as a bar and restaurant because you've been closed for 12 months so when is it considered abandonment now i understand in here it says that legality falls on the burden of the owner so the owner would have to come and argue that point to the city but it's but they'd have to determine what those dates are and then it would be up to the city council i assume they would be the governing body to make that determination yeah we'd do findings of facts we'd investigate and then if they yeah came up and said well here i have receipts showing i had business these days that'd be under consideration okay i'm gonna be the city to present the findings of fact to move forward with that and then for the applicator for that a property owner to dispute that okay um under section f uh and this would be [Music] well both in one and two [Music] specifically it says if uh damaged or destroyed to an extent that is greater uh in number two or less than or equal to fifty percent in item one um which is determined based upon market value at the time now in the old language it said that value was determined by the building inspector now i when i see the term market value and i think of a building inspector i'm thinking two very distinct values a a building inspector can certainly look at what something might cost but as as we all know cost doesn't always equal market value so my question is in the old verbiage it gave responsibility for determining determining value to a city official the way this is rewritten it doesn't give determine it doesn't give that responsibility to anybody specifically what is what is what is our guiding principles in on this and it shows up you know in other places within this report there's another section i think it comes under land or something i neither here nor there but um any well yeah it would be on page 10. um so it would be under non-conforming business or buildings and structures and page 10 it'd be section f damage or destruction of that and again we have a 50 over under um as to how long you can you have to start replacing it but what what is the license appraiser yeah okay we don't have one on staff okay but here's now we get back to who's responsible so it used to be the city's responsibility to determine market value because it was a city inspector now the language says that legality falls upon the owner so is it the owner's responsibility then to go pay for an independent appraisal to determine the loss in value to a damaged structure which could be expensive so who's going to be responsible for that cost mr share the way the ordinance reads it would be up to the burden is on the property owner to show the legality of the of the non-conformity so it i would say that that would fall on them we simply don't have an appraiser on staff to refer to and our bill our building code official is not going to be able to identify a value well again i anytime i i see the word market value the last person i want placing market value on anything is is a building code guy right i mean they're not appraisers they can you know they can look at a building and maybe estimate costs yeah but if if we're specifically dealing with market value as to whether or not you can or cannot continue with a a non-conforming use or a non-conforming building there could be a lot of money at stake there we could be talking about an entire business and their livelihood and i i just think that the term 50 percent of its market value should probably be determined and if i'm the owner of that building i would want a value to be determined in my best interest instead of something and so it might require a different type of appraiser but again if if the if the burden is on me then i would want control of that and i wouldn't want a city inspector and it's not calling for one here i understand that in its language but yeah okay um and last i had on page nine [Music] um kind of curious under section d so expansion of legal non-conforming buildings and structures and there's basically two different avenues and and i found this interesting because i've always been under the impression that if you are in a non-conforming building you know we look at some of the public institutions here and you know somebody'd say well i don't know why they don't you know why can't they make their bathrooms 88 well if they do that well then they have to have everything become ada and that the cost of those things then it would require they have to pave their parking lot and they'd have to do this and do that and it was just too expensive and that's why people don't improve their buildings now this here says that they could expand um and i find that interesting there's two there's the administrative approval and then the conditional use permit [Music] and under administrative building expansion will have no external negative impacts upon adjacent properties or public rights of way so can you maybe just flush out for me what external negative impacts upon adjacent properties would be are we talking about noise light traffic things like that mr chair correct i would say any any of that would qualify possibly drainage if there are some drainage concerns with the additional building had i would i also kind of read it to mean we don't want something that so it's non-conforming because it doesn't meet the front setback so they could theoretically we're fine with them expanding to the rear setback but we wouldn't want anything that is going to become non-conforming further so i think it's just that's more of the issue i think and then we have the negative externalities so if it's something that would be have a lot of light i would say that is a perfect example um i'm trying to think what else would be a negative i think the other issue would be drainage that's the one that just comes up the most so if it could cause an issue with drainage if there's some field tile or something that's just not going to be able to support more of a building or impervious surface then that would be something we would have to consider okay in in general just because i just want to you know next time i'm sitting at the bar talking about expansions of non-conforming uses or something i just want to make sure i understand the general theme so if a building right now is considered to be non-conforming because of say a setback the building could but let's assume they're too close to the road but they have a lot of space in the back or on the side they could be expanded under one of the administrative approval or conditions permit whatever is most applicable as long as that expansion is towards an area where they can still meet the setbacks and the architectural standards would that be correct mr chair that is 100 correct it has to be the expansion that we're talking about has to comply with all applicable standards yes we're saying that it might be some kind of a technicality where the building or the structure is not conforming and we're not saying it can't be expanded we're saying it can't become any more non-conforming than it is today so okay because a lot of this stuff leading up to this just says you can't expand it for greater occupancy you can't you know there's nothing you can do with this you can you can fix the light bulbs but you can't you can't expand it and then all of a sudden you get to this one section and it says all of a sudden it's like lo and behold i guess you can't expand these under certain circumstances mr chair correct as the staff discussed this then we felt that buildings and structures should have some way forward because it's not necessarily that we don't want to see those if it's a business that's a use that we want to see we don't necessarily want to see that go away because of the technicality with their parking if they can expand within code and the building official can say if something's a technical infeasibility and it's existing like i've done upgrades for accessible bathrooms where i couldn't meet all the requirements in the existing building and they've still let me do it because it was an improvement but it wasn't it wasn't increasing the non-conformity of the general building okay okay that's all i had okay anybody else questions comments discussion okay so we have um he said man i've read the word non-conforming so many times it's like all right we have an ordinance pass right over all right amending the text of sections 10 20 and 10 30. and then we have another resolution [Music] for findings of fact is that and and no and then we have an ordinance amending the text so we have three ordinances right mr chair correct there's us i think it's the ornaments amending the tax findings of fact resolution and then the ordinance for some republication oh i'm sorry that's for publication oh it so the only difference is it's not red correct it's it's just a quick summary to post in the newspaper to minimize okay cost okay all right do we have any changes that we've suggested to the city council all right we'll just take then if that's all right with the rest of the commission we'll just take a vote to approve or recommend approval of the amendment [Music] of the ordinances to the city council all at one shot um i have a motion to recommend approval i'll make a motion very good bye this is your last meeting you can second i'll second it okay all right all those in favor say aye aye opposed all right and it is it is recommended for approval thank you everybody [Music] all right um all right we are on item number eight uh reports and information uh planning project update does anybody have any questions or comments for staff on the update garage 2 is up for hearing with the city council on next thursday next wednesday [Music] okay and bechtold farms is on november 22nd is that would that still be relatively accurate uh yep bechtold farm would be on november 22nd monday november 22nd and the assembly uses zoning ordinance mr chair that is coming back to you guys for one last public hearing to hash out the performance standard language um and that is december 2nd i believe and then it will go to console december 23rd ideally to be finalized before 2022. okay so it it's scheduled to be back before the planning commission on december 2nd and is that a public hearing it is a public hearing one last time yep everybody else okay let's move on to eight b city council report counselor nichols how you doing today welcome karin thank you for joining the planning commission pleasure to have all of you here of course uh in terms of updates for the last month october was relatively eventful we had a extensive discussion with lennar about their tavara development and the additional piles of dirt that they erected uh that the council debated with the lennar about an hour on so that was a an issue that still remains to be resolved we're looking forward to seeing what the plan is to deal with that problem at our next meeting seeing some questioning so if anybody wants to interrupt you any time please uh we also completed a couple of paving projects which are i think relatively rare in the city to this point but there was one particularly troublesome stretch uh that had worn away considerably that we were able to replace we closed the improvement hearings and assessment hearings over the last couple of meetings uh as natalie mentioned i think it was nothing he mentioned we did recently approve a trash haulers ordinance as well to deal with standardizing hours as well as levels of service for garbage and recycling services in the city okay can i stop you just there before you continue so um a lot of the residents in my my little neck of the woods you know all signed up with curbside you know all of a sudden it's cheaper grander whatever um and i noticed immediately after that now of course we just got our asphalt repla we got an overlay uh it'd be two years ago this november and um man are they dropping oil everywhere i mean you can see where they stop on a regular basis to every can and i called them to coo to file a complaint i just said i don't know what what it is about your trucks but you know we all know what oil and and other petrochemical type based fluids do to asphalt and i said it would be an awful shame not only does it look terrible you know um and they were very nice and they said well here's the process so we will contact the city of corcoran and we will we will get a hold of the public the public works folks and then we'll all go out there on site and we will evaluate those things and come up with a plan to mitigate and to clean those up now has that is that been part of any of the contract discussions that you've had is is is curbside i mean don't you don't have discussions with them about regular garbage hauling right isn't the only discussions you have for recycling correct so we awarded a recycling contract that went to randy's yeah as far as garbage hauling there's a new procedure for licensure that haulers will have to go through with the city before they'll be able to continue provide service so at that point there will be a mechanism that the city could use if there are abuses or problems uh like violating the hauling hours and things like that there will be a chance for brad or brad's successor to deal with those haulers with a little bit more than uh what we might have had in the past so there's a potential there i don't know that anything has actually happened in regards to your specific complaint however well i can guarantee i haven't seen anybody out there and you know i just sit and watch the grass grow most of the time nowadays if i'm not golfing but i you know i i was surprised i was generally surprised that she came back with an answer that said there was a process to get it cleaned up and have it addressed in conjunction with the city and i was like okay you know i don't know how much that's going to go to maintain your darn trucks you know so that you're not constantly leaking oil all over the place but i brad you you don't know anything as far as being contacted by garbage haulers about no it seems like they were trying to pass the buck pretty well there um so really that's so gullible you know equipment i was just looking at the section here approved we have a section under holler's equipment but it's really regarding leaking of solid waste not so much the equipment so it would be something we probably won't have a conversation we would need evidence and a complaint and it would be something whether maybe we'd have an opportunity if there was enough of these where we deny them from getting a license in the future we'd have to review the what was established and maybe but that's just maybe well i i'll follow up with them i i just you know i just haven't seen anything i just want to know if you guys have ever heard anything or if it's part of contract negotiation i thought it was just you know fluid flowing through the truck but it's still there i mean you would think that that would be something that dried up or got washed away in the next rainstorm but it hasn't and you know it's funny because you can just you can see where that truck stops and it's you know this hydraulic arm leaks right here and this hydraulic arm leaks right there and they're all parallel with one another and if you put your garbage can in the same spot it just gets worse and worse and worse and um you know it's like i said and then you get a line exactly but okay well i i just um i appreciate your input and i'll call them up and you might want to complain to the city rather than to the waste hallway as well if you want to be official was there anything in there about the trucks being enclosed because we had an issue with a garbage hauler where we would see all of our garbage along cane road and it was just blowing first we thought it was because the wind was blowing and then we realized that they did not have an enclosed truck so we ended our service with them because robert and i were picking it up off came road i mean it was terrible to brad's point uh there is a provision that they have to ensure that the solid waste stays contained so if it's blowing out of the truck that would be a problem okay we also discussed capital improvement plans so there's a pre-order process to purchase lawn mowers and police cars and dump trucks and snow plows and things like that so we have a lengthy discussion reviewing plans to place pre-orders to get some items on order before prices go up in 2022 we had a extensive discussion october 28th about water supply planting and specifically about potential locations for water towers and water treatment facilities in the northeastern part of the city we didn't arrive at firm conclusions there but i think we had successfully surfaced several issues that staff was working on getting through the next couple of months and then at the october 28th meeting [Music] we did review the zoning member for assembly uses that you sent back to us and council proved rather quickly so we're looking forward to get your final feedback on the draft language for the appropriate controls for performance standards to include in that updated ordinance we also discussed the construction hours update which was also referenced a little bit earlier today and i made the appointment of corrine to this august commission any specific items you'd like me to address that i didn't touch on i raised mine a little earlier to ask a question um commissioner rancherman you've often advocated for a clear updated set of code what were your thoughts on review of the code from today was this clear enough or would you like to see something a little bit different in the future well ideally i think it should be clearer i think it's better than it was any improvements i'm all for but um i i think that there's still some ambiguity that that should be addressed but i'm i'm more comfortable with this language and coming into conformance with state statute and then but we shouldn't just forget about this for another 20 years you know we should you know baby steps so this was a good step i think we can still improve very good what are the advantages of having a law professor on the planning commission is we get the opportunity to ask for a second opinion wow yeah well thank you thank you um okay item 8c other business and so uh we would be remiss if we didn't i just heard tonight that uh commissioner wu has put in for a resignation from our friendly commission and [Music] was surprising to me and but she feels that since we had so many people apply before that maybe the timing is right to get someone allow someone else the opportunity yeah it's a great opportunity really enjoyed it but it's been nine years i can't believe it nine years yeah yeah you're an alternate before then right right so maybe it's more like 11 i don't know i don't remember and there's an alternate it used to go to those meetings right oh yeah so did i yeah i remember i used to that's all that's how long we've been i was an alternate man i was darn proud of it i used to actually go to the meetings now we don't even have an alternate no in place anymore so well certainly the city and this commission oh you uh debt of gratitude it's been a lot i've enjoyed it and i've learned a lot and i'll miss it but i think that it's encouraging that there are people who want to serve because i know that in past years we didn't have people joining and you know that was kind of like wow you know people had joined and yeah it was just a couple years ago we went for months without being able to fill yeah an open vacancy so and what you had six applicants was it jerry's i mean five well six but one dropped out right yeah one dropped out one we couldn't get it yeah okay so yeah and i could come back if needed i can go to parks and trails which is a complete mystery to me well i you know you can always read the packet and join the public hearing and stand up and give your viewpoint just like you've always been good at doing so we would strongly encourage you to come back anytime okay well thank you thanks again and i suppose to our mayor and to counselor councillor nichols we'll have a go through another process for finding a replacement i don't know what that means with the apple the remaining applicants that we just reviewed but maybe there's a you know maybe this will be a quick and and simple process so yeah anytime you guys want to talk let me know okay any other business mr chair if i may it's my last planning commission meeting so i just wanted to say thank you to everybody for my education over the past eight and a half years um i know lately i have not been here thanks to natalie um which has been really important for other things to focus on but this has been a lot of fun and i mean talk about full circle when i first got here we were talking about our new water system and our ordinance to establish that and so potentially a town center might happen someday and in my last meeting the town center starts so it's been a really great really fun ride yeah thank you are you taking a break before starting your new position i'm taking a week off oh just wait i i was on that committee that that interviewed you know the candidates which was very interesting and uh while i well i i fully supported you know your appointment to the position of that he's so young he's just so young but you know we don't really have a lot going on right now you know this might be a good thing for you know someone to cut their teeth and i tell you you've brought us from you know clearly an entirely rural uh existence into one with you know now we got suburban neighborhoods and and whatnot so you've grown we've all grown but you're you know your leadership and and uh and your organizational skills and everything been incalculably uh valuable to us as a commission and so we do definitely thank you and i i'm sorry for the oversight no no you know so i appreciate it thank you yeah we're having a big surprise happy hour for you after tonight sounds good okay um [Music] all right any other business all right uh let's go to our last item commissioner liaison calendar uh so commissioner bruhmann uh this is um in case you you're unaware so as uh counselor jeremy nichols is here he's our liaison with the city council we also put somebody from the planning commission at every city council meeting so we rotate out and as you can see from that you have been scheduled for january 13th to attend the meeting you'll be receiving a packet of that night's information um so to the extent that you have any you know you're there to help answer any questions that they may have about our meetings and the items that are on their agenda so um anyway um if there are any conflicts in this we've never had a problem in hey can you cover me this day you know we just you know rotate switch out so um so yeah your schedule for uh january 13th i'm up for the 10th when is that wednesday next week next wednesday okay um and then commissioner lanternman on the 22nd is it the 22nd that close to thanksgiving yep monday monday that's a monday okay so track of time uh and then commissioner sholak and i hope everything goes well with uh jim um for the issues he's dealing with but so you know too too too far away to tell whether or not we may need to help cover that uh time spot so if nobody has any changes uh well i suppose we need to pick somebody for december 23rd nobody wants december 23rd the new person yeah that's not fair yeah the new person it can be done virtually too yeah so that's true it doesn't feel quite fair at least i'd have like a little more you know familiarity than the new new person but so well i mean that's that's still uh that's still over a month away and and we'll be meeting here again uh in a month so um why don't we tackle that issue at that point but um yeah one one of us will need to cover that day so all right any other any other items discussion if not i'll have a motion to close this meeting i'll make that i'll second it okay all those in favor close in the meeting say aye aye opposed this meeting is adjourned thank you everybody looks good