>> Approve the minutes of regular meeting of April 16th 2024. Motion to approve the minutes. favor say Aye. post. And police call the next item. Consent agenda items, one through 19. items to be pulled from the consent agenda for discussion. >> Madam Vice mayor, like to pull item 10. >> I'd like to call item or pull item number 9. >> Anybody else? Is to approve consent? A jai agenda items. One through 9 team. -9 10. have motion in a second all in favor say Aye, Any opposed. Motion carries 6 to 0. Councilmember Johnson. >> Thanks, Madam. Vice mayor to to a personal conflict of interest. I have to abstain from voting on this item. >> Is there a motion to accept item 10? >> I have a few questions. First. Ball. That's probably a question for you. I notice arm and packet. There's an additional analysis that says now sending the this will not be binding on the buyer or the buyer be required to enforce the terms of the section. Once a buyer no longer owns the property. Can you elaborate on I just wasn't in the original a vote. And on April 9th and why this was amended. I'm going to let staff give additional information. But it's my understanding that it will not be binding on on the current buyer. >> But will be the conditions will be placed in the deed at the time they transfer it. So the conditions passed on to the new person through the game restriction. Is it that that is correct? Good morning, Gerri. For real estate analysts >> the >> it the second paragraph of Section 13 is a paragraph that was in the original agreement and what it was was the intent that habitat had for that, that specific language is that they did not want to be personally held responsible for those deed restrictions going forward. The deed restrictions that the city has applied to that contract. We'll be in with the sale of the property. But the habitat itself did not want to be responsible for enforcing any of those deep restrictions in the future. So with the amended agreement they could pursue building, they could sell it the next day. >> No, they have in the contract itself. It says that they have a two-year commitment to that property. Still and in talking Habitat for Humanity, establishment of the new headquarters for them was in their short-term executive plan. So they have intended to be in They have intentions on being in this property. So it might. >> So if we didn't passes that restriction but applied to the next buyer, if they stay for 2 years. So to somebody else that that next buyer would be required to stay for 2 years. >> No, it's not a continuous. It's not carry over in That is just. What we negotiated the contract, they agreed to be in the property for a minimum of 2 years. >> But but but all of the but all of the use restrictions. >> in cherry to yes, those with Kerry in perpetuity, those would take council action to remove. >> What happens if they don't say there are 2 years. >> That's a good question. We haven't had that discussion because I know they are planning on with their investment in this property and this being part of their their mission as an organization to find a recall. A new headquarters and the investment into the property. for them to be in there is no expectation for them to be in there for less than 2 years. plan to be there. >> I assume will some type of claw back just a matter be up to law to determine how we clawed back property. That's correct. The city would look at what action could be and should be filed to enforce that provision. If that happened. I do have one additional question. have one for the party as well. Says the parties agreed to place the restrictions in the >> What exactly are those restrictions, if not for that to your cousin, one of the additional restrictions, deed restrictions. I don't have the contract in front of me, but the deep restrictions are spelled out in there. >> It is limiting their ability to use the property. They cannot use the property as a halfway house. Casino, if cetera, OK, that's item number 12, anybody thinks, yes, that's correct. we have legal? >> Add language in there. If it's told before 2 years that possibly referred back to city the same price or some language like that. >> Good morning. If that is a cause that is deserved by both parties, there could be an addendum to this contract negotiated after any time in the future. >> I think that's an appropriate call back is if I'm not saying that habitat has no intentions on another like I hope they're there for decades. just to be good stewards as well. I would be interested a clawback that it would revert back to the city at the same asking price. And so so I would echo Councilman Johnson's comments. >> questions. I move to approve the consent agenda. Number 10, there a second second? There's a motion and a second all in favor. Please say Aye. Any opposed. Passes 3 to 3, 2, 3 S is. Who knows. One of center. >> Without for votes, the motion does not pass. >> Motion to defer this item. so 7th Council meeting. >> And the motion in a second. all in favor say Aye. I Any opposed. I'd like like legal to go back. just put that provision in there. That if it if they do sell before 2 years ago is revert back to the city. Language there. Casas. Yeah, says. One of such. just have consent. And the number 9. Why are we doing that? 10 day extension? I'm a Just curious. Thank you. Anyone else have any questions. I move that we approve consent Addenda item number 9. there a second? It's been a motion in a second. All in favor. Please say Aye. Aye. post. 6 to 0. Madam Clerk. Board of bids and contracts dated April 22nd 2024. >> Rick. Good morning. Vice just offered apartment finance. the board is in contrast between April 22nd 2024. With the following recommendations. For engineering. We have the water distribution system, storm water system, sanitary sewer, paving the server. Some ridge 4th edition for now at Construction Company, Incorporated for an aggregate total of $272. Excuse me. For purchasing. We have the 5 by 9.18, inch and 24 inch rip prep for Bopper camp construction company incorporated in the amount of $138,600. This is an award redirection. This is a asciende elect 6 X one. 65 tractor for Schmidt and Sons in the amount of $169,951.11. Compact pickup trucks for rest. Ford Incorporated in the amount of $84,297. We have the water meter communication hardware for I Tron Incorporated in the amount of $81,590. This is how to become a vendor with the city of Wichita. These request proposals out on the street today. We have to try to answer your questions and I recommend approval. >> Questions for staff. I see none. >> make a motion to approve the. >> of bids and contracts as presented is their second second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion. All in favor. Please say Aye. Aye. you post. Motion passes 6 to 0. Please call the next item. Petitions for public improvements. >> Warning Vice Mayor City Council members, Paul guns and went court to utilities for the record morning. I have it. New and revised titian's for your consideration. signatures on the petitions represent 100% of improvement district and the petitions are valid per Kansas Statute. Petitions for your consideration. Bridger at Central. And District 5 projects will provide. Storm water. Drain improvements, sanitary sewer improvements and paving improvements for new residential development. Revised petition for your consideration. Renick addition face to located in District 6 on December 10th 2021, the City Council approved water cyr and paving petitions for Redick Edition. Phase 2, the developers submitted a revised petition with revised budget to meet current market conditions and to cover the cost of a credit bid. It is recommended that city council approved the new and revised petitions and budgets, doctor new and amending resolution to not harassment, sir signatures, that would stand questions. Questions for staff >> seeing none. I make motion to approve. The petition Public improvement. Contracts as presented is their second. >> We have a motion a second. Any discussion. All in favor. Please say Aye. Any opposed. Motion passes 6, 2, 0, Madam Clerk, please call the next item. >> Councilmember appointments and comments. Thank you. I would like to point Pat Thompson to the animal Control board. Well, it's I do. >> I'd like to Mike Hill from consideration for the ethics board. Seems there are some qualifications that to you to talk to the a joint us and campaigns, including mine. And so I'd like to remove his name and also been a day later. >> I have a few appointments would like to marker. Let to animal control reappoint. Tom, you for Park board and reappoint Jason Jones for Transit. there a motion to accept the points motion to accept the appointments? >> Second. All in favor say Aye. A post. Motion passes 6 to 0. Any announcements. >> This Saturday is Park River cleanup. >> From 9, 1, at first and Waco, a cargo we providing a meal while supplies last and they will be providing gloves trash set. Hope to see you all there. I do have an announcement on Saturday have the privilege of being able to >> be the emcee at the Impact Awards that highlights are child care providers and service providers across the community. got to be the speaker a couple times at this time. I'm going to be the emcee. So credit all the names, Because there's a lot of words that are given out. But it's just another opportunity to really highlight in. Think our childcare providers in our community who not only keep our most vulnerable safe, but also make sure that we have a dependable workforce within the city of Wichita. So more to come be sure to share details next week. Thank you. Thank you. Is there a motion to adjourn? All of 8? All in favor say Aye. I post. Motion passes. 66 year-old. Thank you. Vice Mayor. >> We have 3 items for you today to or continuation discussions that councils had previously. First one is on your economic development policies we're going to get a little deeper in the weeds on that. The second item discussion of the recommendations that are coming to you from the Animal Control Advisory Board for changes in our program. And then the last one is a part of your ongoing discussion about 2025 2026 budget. So without turnover to Troy Anderson, 2 of the 2 discussion, our economic development policy covers. Thank Far will vice members of council. Thanks so much, Troy Anderson, assistant city manager. >> So this is what I'll call a comic development policy part we had. >> Part one back in January. And so just to remind you kind of where we left off, these were the last 2 slides from the January workshop. Some of the key takeaways from that workshop were number one. We want to continue to build upon the work before us right work trying to reinvent the wheel. We're not trying to takes the city and wildly different direction. We're just simply trying to kind of carry out execute implement the plan's strategies recommendations that have been laid out before us. We want to continue that. Emphasize shifting the risk away from taxpayer dollars. want to continue to drive towards performance-based programs right? And then otherwise, we want to try to continue to remove the barriers to broaden and diversify the tax base and courage, capital investment, create employment opportunities and promote economic growth and welfare in the region. Last slide was so where we had in the process, right? Art ultimately is to try to mend our economic development guidelines to make sure that we're all clear and concise and that we're all trying work towards the same goals and objectives. Those our macroeconomic stability again, removing barriers aligning strategic investment with community goals and objectives. And then again, our current work, some of the stuff has changed, obviously since January as a result of feedback from our first for one workshop. So one of the things we've we're all familiar with, but I want continue to kind of highlight, right? Is this called important Matrix. Obviously, economic development is on the forefront of a lot of individuals mines lower quality, higher importance continues. Drink really, really high community surveys. So what are we doing to continue to grow the economy? And I kind develop a sort of a broad conversation but I think generally we're talking about is growing all of the ancillary benefits that As we continue to dive into this. I just want to continue to frame the conversation right? Here are the incentives that we're generally all talking about. We're talking about property tax abatement for property tax exemption, property tax rebate sales, tax exemption, sales tax rebate, special assessments. obviously we have the authority to waive fees unreimbursed certain eligible expenses. The programs by which we carry out those incentives, right? Our programs such as IRB is or industrial revenue. Bonds. Sometimes are called by other things. Right. At the end of the day, they're all revenue. Bonds could be a multi-family residential revenue bomb could be any number of other. So. Most folks recognize by the Industrial Revenue Bond B. talk a little bit about PDX, although Edx and star State programs. But obviously there is some involvement of the city how we approach projects that want to utilize those programs. and our endeavor Hood Runners, Asian area, others Ricciardi reinvestment House and Senate districts. There's a TIF tax increment financing Zerbe a community improvement District Starr, special If we get caught up acronyms. Forgive us. But that's the explanation of what each of those archives are. So this is oftentimes a table that we will kind of show to align. You know what the incentive tool is with what the program offering provides for ready. So if somebody is looking for a sales tax exemption, the only tool we have in the toolbox is an industrial revenue bonds. Right. However, some of these looking for sales tax rebate, might have a program or a star program that just kind of helps 0 on exactly how those to work together. So for the purposes of today's conversation, really want to begin to separate. Because I think there's some in and around the community we handle private projects differently. Then we have the projects that are public-private projects right? A private project owner developer owns and controls and wants to do something. And as a result. >> May want to take advantage of one of incentives and subsequent programs right? That's really what we're going to focus on here today. We want to separate that is. I want to be able to come back in the future with an addendum or a supplement to these amended guidelines to really talk through work through how we'll deal with sort of public-private projects. I want to talk about public-private projects. Want to talk about is where the city is. This some sort of taxpayer dollars to make some sort of improvements as it relates to the project right? And so and those public-private projects again, will. Bring back a supplement as part of that. But the focus of kind of today's conversation right is we just want to amend the guidelines for just those projects that. Don't request or don't require some sort of public investment, right, using taxpayer dollars to make some sort of investment. Improvement. Okay. So with that being said, one of the things working on is we're amending the guidelines right? As we're going to organize those guidelines. Based on the incentive type right right now. It just bases and on the program. So it's a little confusing or really kind of trying to do is reorganized guidelines based on incentive type. So there will be a section of overview and incentives sort of just generally and then we're going to get into there will be a section on property tax abatement exemptions, property tax rebate, so on and so forth. The last part of guidelines will we're going to roll and and we're going incorporate our real estate acquisition and disposition policies to make sure that those are clear. And I've got to slide on that to help. So, for example, one of the first things we want to do right is recommended that we strike the section that relates to downtown development Centers K. This section was introduced downtown development incentives, contemplated evaluation of the use of public investments. addition to traditional economic centers. This is that supplement that we ultimately want to come back and introduces a supplement to the guidelines. That's why we're striking the section now because there may be opportunities for the city to enter into sort of public-private partnerships to make investments and public infrastructure otherwise outside of downtown. So it was a little new, wants kind of missed the mark a little bit of I think there's a lot of really good stuff in there and probably be the foundation for how we bring that supplement back right. But it will be a somewhat of broader supplemented really deals with just how the city will respond to public-private partnerships. But the first go-around of an amendment to the guidelines. You'll no longer say that downtown development incentive. Against a full reintroduce some of these concepts as part of a future supplement of the guidelines. Continue to reinforce the difference private projects for public-private projects. OK, this was that. Every section kind of overview we'll have been sent to sort of generally submittal requirements, evaluation process and there's always opportunities to way the policy. How does that? Right? So that will be just overall king umbrella for the entire guidelines. OK, let's jump in the next section. Real fast property tax abatement exemptions. Again, there will be a subsection to sort of generally about property tax abatement exemptions terms of conditions section the existing guidelines contemplate a cumulative percentage of property taxes to be abated based on new job creation, capital investment and additional considerations currently, additional considerations could should include things like, is it consistent with the city's comprehensive and or urban infill strategy right? Is the project proposal consistent with other economic plans and strategies such as the 2015 conference of Housing policy. Regional Growth Plan, etc, and utilization of other federal, state and local incentives. So, for example, if somebody proposing a project and it meets the comprehensive plan and it meets the housing policy. Right now start to know and understand that this project is meeting the goals and objectives of our community are least trying to respond to the goals and objectives of our community and obviously ranks higher scores higher. For example, one of the things that we have traditionally not talked about is the use of these tools for multi-family residential or just housing in general, right? We have a huge how a huge housing a crisis but issue we need a lot of housing. We need a lot of different housing types. So how do we begin to use some of these tools? So, for example, property tax abatement while still being sensitive to, you know, they're taxing jurisdictions like the school districts on and so forth, right how do we make sure that the project is a warning with our? Community goals and objectives. quick toward When we score those or when we look at these. >> As affordable housing, does that figure into this at all? Is there any benefit to somebody is proposing an affordable housing plan as opposed to just the get all regular or luxury apartments, possibly. >> Rice. So we go back. And as we're drafting the revised sort of these amended guidelines to your point, yes, we want to start kind of calling some of that stuff out under our current guidelines. No, there is no emphasis on, you know, whether or not a project scores higher as a result of the fact that is an affordable housing project for so just a housing project, right? And so we want to try understand better. The metrics and impact something like But to your point in that example about to walk through, right, that you could potentially a higher score, higher ranking based on the fact that somebody is proposing affordable housing project. First, just traditional market rate housing project. So, yes, look, look to that in the guidelines thank you. Okay. so one of the things I want to walk the real fast is this is a an example that actually comes right out of our guidelines today. And I want to use this as sort conversation point for the next couple of slides. Right? So, for example, if a company is projecting that would create 10 new jobs, it would qualify for 30% of big. If it is investing 4 million dollars that would qualify for an additional 40% of If the companies in a regional growth plan sector. Add another 10% of 8. And if the companies also utilizing state incentives, another 10% for a total 90% of So this is not but they have. Indicated that this particular project meet certain goals and objectives of the community that there's a line so they could qualify for 90% of Under current guidelines, right? That's just a flat 90% of bay. It's been suggested that perhaps a sliding scale, the considered with the percentage of abatement decreasing over the ten-year period. Right. And so I want to show you here on the next flight how that could look right. But in the previous example to follow, I know this is maybe a little hard follow, but bear with me for just a minute. And the previous example, assuming the total tax obligation, we're $100,000 a year. 90% abatement would result in $100,000 being added to the tax roll over a ten-year period. Right? If $10,000 a year over the next 10 years would generate $100,000 in additional tax base being added for the next 10 years. Right now that here's a live here live right in the fact that every year, $10,000 however and a sliding scale example, $100,000. Again, we're not adjusting the actual tax saving and talk tax contribution. But the same 100,000 could be realized either by. Progressive linear Jake or so. For example, you might see something like this, right where? On a developer realizes sort of greater savings on the front end of the first couple years. But over the back and you know, that tax contribution gets added to the tax rolls greater. So you see there the blue line is where we're at today. The yellow line shows sort of a way shorts, just a percentage based or J curve might show how greater tax obligation can be added to the tax roll in later years were still exploring this. You know, maybe this is a practice. Maybe this is an option. But we did want to show you that we did here the feedback and we are considering this as part of amendment. >> So the X axis is number of years the Y axis is the >> savings per year for it is the tax additional taxes being levied. A. Big paid out. All the taxing jurisdictions to The blue line. As I just went through that example, right? They're getting that 10% abatement. So they're saying a $10,000 savings in year one year 2 and year 3. So the dollars that are coming into the community is the 10,000 their value of what they're being abated is the Blue Line $90,000 a year over the course of the 10 year right? So the and the yellow line where the green line right? let's look at on for just a minute in your won, the honor might see 100% abatement and then your to 98 and the 96. Whatever that looks like. Rice with east still see that same 100,000 being added to the tax roll. Same with the J Curve. Right? There's going to be a greater tax abatement exemption over the first 5 years. But then after your 5. Increased to that actual becomes greater rater. Okay. that number be 10,000 or 100,000? That's that's the tax abatement, correct? This is the tax debate. example. The value was 100,000. correct P f. So let's go back to the example here. So in a previous example, right where they were getting 90% of it. 10% is being added to the tax roll every year. Okay. So if we just put a brand value want that, and let's just say that. Overall tax bill ever years, $100,000, OK, OK, getting 90% of They're adding 10%. All of the taxing jurisdictions every year for 10 year period for a total of $100,000. That's $100,000 could be added to the tax roll. In a number of different fashions. If you want to just look what the contribution of the tax role is, this graph would be flipped, right? Yes. So this does not the appraiser Justin values up, correct. This is just an assumption of ignoring controlled environment. Yes. Okay. Okay. With that being said. Just kind of set the stage, We watch for generally we watch terms some of the conditions that we want to walk through right are some of the service fees making sure that those service fees continue to get passed on to the owner developer so that taxpayers not been obligated to pay the service fees. >> Some other things have dove into right or just jobs, wages and salary criteria, metrics generally right. There is a reference to a salary criteria that may not necessarily be consistent. What's going on out there in the market right now. And so we're going to take a close look at those. Metrics. Additionally. Food for thought, right? Is primarily deal? Am. >> Property capital related. Incentives, right? Property sales, tax, etc. Most of the incentives that we deal don't really deal with jobs, job training. And right when we talk about economic belt developed, we talked about capital investment and jobs, creating those kind of things. There's not really a direct correlation between capital investment and jobs created. We all know that we're in highly tech Nicole. Right? And we're seeing more and more capital investment that's being made. And not necessarily equivalent jobs being created because of that technology that is being introduced, right as we're walking through that of trying to understand really wear jobs and jobs created and wages plays a role in the incentives that we have to offer, which are really property sales tax base and not the Now the state offers a lot of job training and other labor related incentives. But generally we as a city, we're focusing on capital investment capital, outlay. >> That real quick thanks, Troy. sorry. I'm sorry. I'm so are we saying that we're going to move away from winning it towards jobs created not necessarily. But we just need to understand what implications Okay, because I think that's one of the main incentives to pass something like this is the jobs created. I understand getting them on the books. Were property taxes want not as important as well. But that's what makes some of these projects a little more palatable. Is the jobs created. So my to to send some put on We don't want to diminish in any way, shape or form the value of the jobs and the wages that those jobs create. Again, we want to make sure that we continue to be in attracting and retaining businesses and saying that business growth economic growth and stability. >> Of the community. But absolutely we don't undermine in any way jobs are critical to that ride. The jobs are their community. Troy. >> We do take into account the job the wages when the WSU does its review. The cost benefit analysis that's done is does take into account, not just sales tax property, tax values that are increase, but also the wages created by the company that that's correct. So council is considering that when they look at what that return on investment, that's correct. there's a couple of different labor wage And so we just want to take a close look and make sure that we're consistent. Yeah. >> Kind If an employer looks labor standard right for wages and we're looking at a different labor wage standard, which want to make sure that we're in alignment. >> We're working with those businesses to understand what's appropriate. >> Yeah, I get that. I just like I said, I just don't want to move away just want to make sure that's really one of the top priorities that we have with this degree. I heard what our current guidelines with a return on What is the >> goal? Our ally for all of our were through W should go. We're looking at that studies. So that's a good question. In fact, later on in one of the slides, I'm going to touch on that the language in the guidelines isn't really clear, right? And so we want to really address that in one section that talks about sort of 2 to one capital versus in another section that talks about 3 to one capital to invest right. There's no real. Percentage of our ally that identified. I would. Caution us to keep about kind of putting in the hard number right but to your hit on here in just a little bit. We want to revisit that to make sure that we're being clear and concise about. >> Where the city is and regards to. >> The capital investment that's being made and and the actual dollars. owner developer is bringing to the table versus what is being asked to be. Abated are or rebate. >> yes. And our cost benefit analysis for IRB. Yes, there has to be a minimum one to one. If there's a property tax abatement that is being offered under the IRB at a minimum, you have to hit a one to one. our own personal standard. We're not going away from that. We're not going to it used to be one to 3 in the council. >> to 1.0, 1.3 to one. And then the council asked us to reduce that to give more flexibility on some projects. So is the one to one for every taxing jurisdiction has to fall underneath that are a result of the city which dot the city. >> So what what happens we do? I mean, I think we're on the low end of the arrow line compared to the other taxing jurisdictions. But what happens if it does come in under one for for us for, know, for like the school board or 4. Councilman never consider that before. >> So let me kind of maybe respond to that a little bit right? There's nothing in state law says it has to particular return on the best particular cost benefit analysis. right. Well, the state says that you have to do a cost-benefit analysis. >> We have created the traditionally one to 1.3 and now the one who right. >> But your point there could be a scenario. Look a low-income housing tax credit, affordable housing project right chief. Some sort of local goal. And objective, but may not necessarily reach a one to one because longtime doesn't necessarily create a lot of jobs or wages. Right? And so we haven't had that has been presented to yet, right? But there could be a scenario I say that that's might exist and something that we've been continuing to work with Wichita State University on these cost benefit analysis also looking at the turn right? I'm just looking at a cost benefit analysis over a 10 year term in which the tenor is being abated. You can imagine lot medically going to be operating sort of from the red and it takes jobs and wages to create a one to one ratio. If I look at the 15 or 20 year term. That cost benefit analysis, which was a different right, because now you're 11 12. Now the property comes back on the tax roll. If I'm looking at a 15 or 20 year term on the cost benefit analysis. So there's a couple of different influences on that cost benefit analysis that we want to make sure that we are taking into consideration. But to the point of, yes, we currently have a threshold of one to one. Right now we get to present anything that doesn't mean that won the won. But we've got to speculate sort of in our offices that there could potentially be a project that achieve community desired goal and objective. That may not necessarily reach one to one. And that's where council just have to take that under advisement. >> Is that mostly affordable housing that you say that that's probably easiest low hanging fruit option that you can imagine quickly without creating a lot of jobs and wages. If you're looking at just a 10 year analysis. It may not So there's the other benefits to that that would be quantum fund. That would be the one, I think maybe exception not be willing to to look at is affordable housing, very often real quick going back jobs. I know we have talked about. >> Previous but I would support a higher score for folks who hire folks with felony backgrounds. That continues to be a struggle for a lot of people who have a record trying to get a good paying job. And if there's someone willing to create those types of jobs, I think they should get some additional benefit. Great feedback. Yeah. Appreciate that. Thank you. >> While we're on topic right of just making sure that we're also revisit the 5 plus 5 versus the 10 year adjusted, right? If I go back to kind of this chart right in the history. We're still combing through records and I would love for somebody tell me I'm wrong. We've yet to sort of a 5 plus 5 every 5 year window. Even if they didn't initially meet the job projection, the jobs that they did create exceeded that one to cost benefit ratio, right? And so we want to just be thoughtful about doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for us to continue to offer up to 5 plus 5%. Just looking at the 10 year window. >> my camera. The company there was at least one that the council did withdrawal with the agreement of the company. They knew that they had not met the requirements and didn't have or didn't believe that meet in second 5. So we did not. I don't think we clawed back, but we did not offer the second 5, but that's very rare. The other item in here goes back to what I think Councilmember Glasscock talked about. Blast time and that is a sliding scale not to point system and you talked about, but over a ten-year period started with 100% and then dropping down every few years. So you phase out exemption. >> with the the IRB is a 5 year checking theirs. 3 benchmarks. Is that what we look at U.S.? 3 separate benchmarks to consider is not just the job creation right? >> have to go back the capital investment. Obviously that the jobs created. >> because I do seem remember one that and that 2 of the 3 benchmarks here within the last 2 years or so. >> And I think the guidelines talk about the fact that if they need 2 of the 3 of them, they will have satisfied the requirement. >> Yeah. And that we invoke condition, the economic condition index, right? So if it's downturn in the aviation industry, right there's an alliance there. >> Which is also played into why and some of the 5 plus 5 evaluations that hasn't been recalled is because there's been economic downturn met that criteria, correct? Absolutely. Last Obviously, we always want to be thoughtful of payments lieu of taxes, oftentimes called origination fees. Right? Because we want to be very conscious of not taking tax dollars away from any of the other taxing jurisdictions, right? So that was just tax base. Doing everything we can to continue to make sure that existing tax base is made whole on the taxing jurisdictions are made whole as if the project work to never occur. Even if we are something like 100% of Okay. specific property tax payments generally. Yes, there are 2 programs that have subsections. >> Industrial revenue bonds media says real fast and I are ba. And I are be financing the bond issue or acquires ownership of the property leases it to the business. The long payments or lease rentals are used to repay the bonds with interest. The business is given an option to purchase property and then the lease term for a nominal sum. One benefit of fire be is issued by cities and counties as eligibility for tax abatements for the financial facility for up to 10 years. get into the 2nd half here later. Once we get to sales tax exemption. But that's generally how our bodies work. What's this bond or issues? The proceeds can be used for the purpose of paying all or part of the cost of purchasing acquiring constructing reconstructing, improving and equipping furnishing, repairing a large remodeling facilities. Again, we're going to revise the annual administrative fee to read origination fee. That's consistent with state statute just to make sure that we're been consistent in our stories. We're going to revisit the speculative industrial flex office and hangar building programs to better align with other IRB offerings and some of the scenarios we walk through our it actually could be more restrictive. It you may not necessarily see greater benefit by doing next pet project than you would if you just called it a project. that's baby contrary to some of the goals and objectives that we're trying to achieve in our community. So we just want to make sure that those 2 are alive. So >> moving administrative fee to origination when we first started discussion around the origination fee, it was in lieu of but parts of the city that may not need infrastructure investment from the city. So the project. Before councilmember totals on council. But district to that we all kind of thought that money that need to be invested there. So their origination fee was for the developer to be able to pay fines that we get the news in the area of town that needed it instead of them required to use it in that specific area. Are you saying that the administration fee? Would become that or are we doing away with the original intent of the origination tree? >> So that particular scenario just went through is under the cip program. Under the IRB program, there's an annual administrative fee. Well, under state state statute calls an origination fee and we can only spend it on economic development stuff right? The administrative fee, this was a process that our auditor helped us identify that if we're calling it administrative fee, right? We've got to go back and show >> where and how those dollars are being directly tied to administration of the program and fees as opposed to. Putting it towards economic. There's a provision under state law that allows us to. Put that toward to the situation you were just describing falls under R C ID program. And get to that here in just a second. But yes, there So with that. >> Do you think there will be confusion from applicants looking at an origination fee under IRB versus origination fee and or see it? Because I have the same name. But mean, 2 different things right? >> Which is which is when we get to see we want to rebut make sure that we're being clear. And so we may look ad and we may look at FIA something different. origination right? This is consistent with state law. So we want to make sure that were consistent with state law. The program that you're describing under the sea, Isn't necessarily consistent with state law. It's consistent, but yes, and that's why when I get to see ID's, I highlight that because we want to revisit that. Make sure that confusion. >> And with all of these programs, again, underlying. No taxpayer risk, right. We want to continue to that IRB does not put taxpayer dollars at risk. This is entirely. Risk averse shift the risk to the owner developer. It's got to be performance-based. They don't realize the benefit unless they go to the project. see on every one of these under the amended guidelines until we come back with the supplement. But all of these programs. No taxpayer risk. PDX. I try to breeze through this one really fast this estate program. Very similar to the IRB is only offers a property tax abatement. No sales tax exemption. Its limited the following industry sectors, manufacturing warehousing this research and development utilize for companies expanding real property and adding jobs. Same thing. No taxpayer risk. These are very few and far between. Truong. Property tax rebates. There will be a section property tax rebates, generally terms conditions and then we'll introduce these 3 programs under this. The neighborhood revitalization area, the Reinvestment Housing Incentive District. These 2 programs. We'll talk about in just a second. But they're not currently identified in our guidelines. Obviously they exist and can be utilized. And we've got that do some more stuff with. But we want to make sure that the guidelines are in the guidelines or been comprehensive. So those 2 will not currently identifying the guidelines will be introduced. But I'll touch on those here in just a second. obviously tax increment financing. Okay. Let's talk about neighborhood revitalization or fast. So Internet? Alright, property owner improved property within certain designated areas such as urban renewal, our neighborhoods revitalization plans. The owner then make substantial investment property improvements. And those that tax increase is a result of the increase can be rebated back to the owner to offset some of the costs associated with investment. An NRA requires and a local agreement with county and school district City used to have an NRA program. And for whatever reason. Didn't last. And so. It is a tool in our tool box. It does require and a local grandmother with that being said, we are having conversations with us to 2, 5, 9, about what standing up a new and are a program would look like. So I don't have any specificity around this yet. But at least there will be a section that will talk about yes are is created how it would Folks could apply take advantage of that and center. But again, this is currently. Not in the guidelines we will at it. But this doesn't suggest that we're going to we still have to come back with that local agreement creator, geography. Establish the rules, right regulation, which in which is no different than any other. TIF, District C ID district center. >> When did the sorry? When did the NRA program that we have been running? When did we? Kind of move away from that? And is that also going to be the basis for our redesigned or or or just starting from scratch? >> So to answer the first part of the question, it was like 15 years ago, it's been. Many, many years ago. I can get you the exact to hear that we sort a folded out up. But no, we're going to somewhat start from scratch. From what I understand, one of the biggest challenges was that was because the geography was so large right, that there was terms about the impact. We want to make sure that we're aligning any program offering with those goals and objectives. Perhaps, you know, aligning it with those no 2 court orders that we've been identifying things. >> those details have been sorted out. Yeah, we're just simply having preliminary conversations about whether or not school district County would be amenable to creating a new and program district. What are any of these still active? We part of me. >> Any of the NRA's know the it's probably been a little more like 10 or 12 years. was place when I first got here both jurisdictions dropped out over time. So we were the only ones that are offering a tax payment. That's why we terminated the program because didn't have same impact it was so anything we bring forward is if we get agreement with the school district county. >> And be in line with the Urban Infill project is really the same reflection of, hey, if you're and filling you make it substantial improvements within this district, then watch for this except it will be even more narrowly focused the previous job or fees was somewhat. >> The entire easy. I mean, it was right. And that perhaps part of the problem. So we want to make sure that we're being really thoughtful about. >> The impact that could have all the other 2 jurisdictions right? so be it probably much more narrowly focused and we see a substantial investment property improvements. I imagine it's more than just paint nice to to find substantial. Is that for very extreme blighted properties that are trying to bring a backup or >> put substantial in here because you have to imagine that whatever improvements are being made have to be enough to increase the value of the property, right? So yes, if I'm just painting my house. Is that really going to raise my property value, which then increases my tax bill so that I can get precept tax obligations. made it back That's what no sort of hard line on what a substantial improvement is. Obviously the greater best month, a greater that increase to the property values. The greater rebate could be returned. But to your point. Painting house probably isn't going to increase the value of the property to cause a rebate to be relaxed. Yeah. >> And so its current property, not new property could be a new property to the new probably because Bill development. Yeah, because take an existing. Perhaps bacon and develop lot. I know you're putting infill development your creation value of the property and that property. It works very similar to tip, which will get into here in just a second, right? But so can't wait to see it. Yes. >> Another one real fast. This wine is the reinvestment Housing incentive District. This started out rural housing and Senate district many years ago over the last couple years. It's expanded to include city is over 60,000 population and that's why they remember the reinvestment House Senate District. Again, functions very similar to tiff and that the property tax rebate. There are 2 project types under state statute right? There's subdivision infrastructure, which is sort of this Greenfield development program and there's an upper Urban infill, housing redevelopment program. So we're going to recommend that the city focus entirely on the upper story program to coincide with comprehensive plan. Urban infill strategies. We've already got tools in the toolbox to respond to sort of Greenfield subdivision infrastructure. That may work really, really well on some of the rural cities. But I think this community's focus is really towards upper story. Urban infill housing program. And so we're going to continue to emphasize to. And so you may see some language in the guidelines that. Does not include that subdivision of structure, Greenfield Development program. little bit more about the progress program. The developer the project is reimbursed by the interim increase in tax valuation of period of time. What was unique about our each ad was the increase in eligible expenses and the increase in term, right, which is someone made this a little bit attractive but we're still kind of working through what the impact is whether or not that could be realized, particularly if you're taking an existing. Commercial building and covered into residential. There's immediate loss value because of just how commercial and residential is valued. All and all just essential tasks. Right? And so we're saying is there's actually almost twice the investment that needs to be made. we're still kind of trying to But the program exists. We will have a tour guide lines. There are allowable costs. So in order to establish our JV need to complete a housing units, analysis. Happening now, a sus on the books now from 15 and we've been in. A conversation on council. But with that being said, we're actually undergoing of housing needs analysis as we speak should be available perhaps by the end of the year. sets the physical boundaries of the rjd. You don't have to pass a resolution to establish a district. Plight of the secretary of commerce for approval of the district that create a development plan. Again, this tool, there's no taxpayer. Okay. Let's talk about to fall Used to fund the revitalization of designated areas existing tax base is preserved for pilot originations for that. We're kind of talking about the portion of new tax revenue representing the tax increment used to pay for eligible redevelopment costs. TIFF does not increase sales tax or property tax rates. It only allows for property tax rebate back to the owner developer based on the increased. we do. That is added to the property again. And this scenario there is no risk to the taxpayer. This is the traditional TIF All you see circulated. They're in orange is the existing tax base which is continued to be realize all that action jurisdictions are continue to be made whole over that 20 year period. You see in the light blue area just on top of the existing tax base is the incremental tax. you obligation that is realized as a result of the project that increment that that can be rebated back to reimburse for certain eligible expenses. And obviously the great thing about after that, if retires, Baxter Miss 20 years, often times we'll see temps. We're tired early. Maybe you're 16, 17, 18. And then you see a windfall of all new tax contributed to the tax base. Probably one of most popular tools across the nation. Next section sales tax exemption. terms conditions this will be pretty fast. The only tool we have industrial revenue. Bonds. So one benefit B is not only the property tax abatement for up to 10 years, but also a sales tax exemption for labor and materials purchased for new facilities. could take advantage of sales tax exemption under the RV. By itself. They could do a property tax by itself or they could do both under the program yet. And council approval. Materials include construction materials. One thing that we always continue to remind folks of this also includes furniture, fixtures equipment, right? So depending on there may be additional furniture fixtures, equipment that could become sales tax exempt. And there's real is a Liability sheet, Associate with that project for furniture fixtures. So it's not just limited to construction commodities labor, but also. Stephanie, same scenario, no taxpayer risk. Let's talk about the sales tax rebate. Generally terms conditions will be on that included in the guidelines. Obviously community improvement, district and star Bonds. Okay. under the sea, I D. This adds additional retail sales tax to the district can be used for commercial industrial or mixed use projects. City tax can be used to pay a wide range of capital development costs and certain ongoing operational costs. Cities may impose a retail sales tax up to 2%. One thing about see 80's is there's also a special assessment component, which is fuel recall as we sort of terminator facade improvement program under the former. Structure. Are improvement program. Those special assessments are sort of rolled up undersea. It will talk a little bit about that. But have for 22 years. first and foremost, we want to revisit the origination fees. So back to council member Johnson Point right? Oh, yes, there was some language in the guidelines about contributing 10% of the project's return right towards some sort of specific community improvement. There's some language in there about if there's not a specific project, maybe it goes into the land bank. You know, he's really taken advantage of that. So again, we want to revisit the whole section of make sure that we're being consistent town. And especially if Continue to talk about revisiting eligible expenses right? If we're going to continue to focus on public improvements as the eligible expenses, right? And you would hope that those eligible expenses are going towards public infrastructure and public benefit anyway, which so are we checking a box twice. That's why we want to revisit that origination fee and just make sure that we're continuing to be consistent him. The will of council and making sure that there's nexus associated with that fear that contribution. So. We want to revisit the origination. That we want to take away. We just want to make sure that we're being consistent. Making sure that it is going to those public improvements. okay. Undersea ad special consideration is given to projects located existing target areas. It talks about opportunities on Central Business district. So 2 different sections of our guidelines, we're talking about 2 different documents, a standard right? I kind took a step up from IRB, right? We want to make sure that we're all saying the same thing. Whether you're using our various see a day. Are you being with cities conference of plan? Urban infill strategies? Are you being consistent with other economic plans and strategies? Are utilizing other federal state, local incentives, right? We just want to make sure that we're using the same sort of document and guiding principles regardless we're program. we're not saying, if you're going to use this tool comply with this guideline, if there's not have to play with those want to use the same What going? >> I was just going to ask and answer for should know the answer to this. it is anything still happening with opportunity zones. I know back in to those in need 1920, there's quite a bit you know, I haven't heard anything more about opportunity zones and South >> So opportunity zones upper when when opportunity zones or first. Implemented, right and creative cities had a role identifying where those zones right. And they have to align with qualified census tracks. Once those opportunity zones were designated. Really, there for cities to do right. This is a private sector. If I want to go and I want to put tax dollars into project, it's really it's between you and your tax attorney and there's tax savings from the federal yrs require city don't really have a to your point that, yes, there was a clef right, that it was for 10 to 15 year period wants it was 10 years and were public. Coming up on the clip of when that I haven't heard anything about them, extending that benefit. So to your point, if somebody wanted to get in now, they're only going to probably realize 2 to 3 years for says the 10 year savings that was originally and actually remember, a lot of this was to roll over to prevent capital gains and with the window was very short is like the first year or 2 of the opportunity zone program. And then you could extend over a longer period talk. So my guess is there's probably nobody participating. There are probably no new projects that would go that would participate opportunity zone because they lose at capital gains But again, we don't have anything to do with that. If somebody wants to stand one out. >> They don't require council city approval. Okay. Okay. So thing about this light, I want to make sure that we're talking about because of the next Goodness. >> Is geography, Jabal expenses. It sounds like reason that those are some one of the 2 criteria that really helped drive decisions about when where, how to approve projects right? Geography, eligible expenses. So, for we're going to recommends striking some language. There will be other language, but these are kind of some of the highlights. >> Currently, the guidelines say that this year it will support projects with total cost of not less than 5 million dollars for projects where bonds are issued up front. >> This does not apply to pay as you go projects. So again, under these guidelines, not the supplement that we're talking about. We're not putting up any bombs. So why do we need this language and the guidelines? Telling might occur in the supplement or talk about where the city's props bombing, some sort of improvement. But this doesn't make necessarily want to get if we're trying to be taxpayer risk covers. We would put this language in the guidelines. You might see something like that some point. But in the guidelines. So that one example of language that we're going to strike for recommends striking to the question what we want to revisit the minimum private capital investment ratios. Existing language may be confusion, even within the same paragraph folks will doesn't mean that doesn't happen to want to have to 3 to one. So we want to clean that up. There's another specific. We hot topic. The restaurant chains will not be considered for see. 80's Henry infill projects, the 4 being responsive to. >> Where see Mayor Curt geographically. >> And Belichick bull expenses can be used. But I think you sort of solve this. Question right of whether or not because there may be a scenario where. You may want to approve a see ad that includes some sort of restaurant chain, right? So I throw it out here. Everybody asked, what are we going to contract right? Technically chain restaurant right? think about the history of Pizza Hut and Freddie. Is right? Our community is kind of built on 10. So it's not necessarily the I thinks the community wants to exclude restaurant chains from being eligible. But I think what it is, the geography of where these restaurant chains are. They continuing to drive economic growth. Are they are eligible expenses, right? So if we're going to to expense is too. Maybe that the restaurant is driving sales tax, but it's only going to reimburse for eligible expenses that are public improvements, right? And it's not for maybe tenant improvement or something like that, right where there's. There's public benefit. There's public improvements to sort of everybody can enjoy and it's not necessarily going back to any one business that you might have to actually frequent in order to enjoy those benefits to some extent. So we want to continue to focus on just the geography associated with when and where the east. And so we may propose striking this particular sometimes I think we can achieve some of the same goals and objectives by focusing job. If you're eligible expenses and certainly have to call out any one particular use. >> I think some of the concern with restaurant chains is the fact that they have. You know, capital to invest themselves. I think that's kind of the concern with that. And getting involved in kind of playing favorites potential chains coming in. So that's just my my take on it. In regards to restaurant chain and restaurant chains. How capital. >> Others don't write. You might be a franchisee and you might be getting into the franchisee world for the very first time. And you may not necessarily have the capital as a future investor and a franchisee right? So, you know, we've been presented with some of those drugs pasta. Yeah, it is the question, the fact that because actually. Restaurant chains are some of the biggest drivers of sales tax. commend contributed back to the project for those public infrastructure improvements, right? And so. There's also you're you're cutting off, said one of your primary funding sources by not including restaurants, >> That might be the selection that you used. A few would have said Waffle Whataburger might have been a little different. But she said she is kick factor we try to be really careful not to. I put names on the boxes. And I think that was it. I don't think it's necessarily the fact that the restaurant has. What are those eligible expenses? Are we using those eligible for things like a tenant improvement that only those people who frequent that establishment kind of joy? >> Or are they eligible expenses? Things like trails intersection improvement and extension of water and sewer that can't drive or economy is at a park is a public amenities right? One of those eligible expenses that that sales tax rebate go to reimburse We might not otherwise have enjoyed. And then there does kind of come. Some will come. Are we OK great field development? You score do we want to try to ranked? We'll sort of see now full disclosure. see these were created specifically for Greenfield develop right? And so that, in fact, you go back some of the state statute, want to it was intended to drive. Greenfield develop that if that's appropriate, our community great, if fine. But that's where we want to kind of balance to. Geographically where we're using tools to continue achieve the goals and objectives of the community. One of those eligible expenses, I think the rest of us will sort itself. I have a problem. >> Bringing in new businesses to compete with our president businesses paying taxes for years. felt the solid business and they don't getting has missed 2. There. Streets are neighborhood, you know, the new one that the new county and town gets all that sum. The thing. So I just I really went Given those advantages. New businesses coming in. So we could have >> Restrictions on. kind of this poaching type of idea, right where you can simply relocate a business within a radius. Right? So we're not just continuing offer up. >> Program, so send to just move the same businesses within our community around right? So there is some of that that's baked into this oftentimes these are simply to grow the economy right? There working, maybe a franchise that maybe a restaurant chain, right? But it may be due to market. It's not necessarily locating from one end of town to other. It could be adding 2. And that's why continue to kind of focus geography, ineligible expenses because just because the restaurant chain doesn't necessarily preclude us from attracting, there are some really exciting popular restaurant chains out there that can actually contribute Grohl. You're a cop that aren't necessarily competing with existing businesses right? And so how do we continue to remain competitive? Ourselves? And we will pass that we're having to revisit exemptions are exceptions to the rule rather presenting options letting the governing if I can reframe the issue a little bit. >> The way Troy's describing the program is the way was adopted by the legislature and it wasn't. That was the program's intention back in during the recession 2009, 2010. And we've had water discussions with one of the people that was an author of that legislation. Wanted encourage us to maximize the impact to see it. Council has progressively over time going a different direction. And I guess that's what we're asking you to to give us guidance on. Council really is look at this almost like an urban renewal tool and has I think, occasionally varied from that. And then this provision specifically and restaurants in Greenfield, was kind of buyer's remorse over a project and to say no, that strayed from our issue of urban renewal. And we don't want to do that again. So I guess what we want to do is check in with You know, we've I think most of our CI do you not all of them, but most of our projects have been more along those redevelopment of struggling properties are properties that could do better if they had to see ID. We had one down south just recently. We've is will side and Central Central and Oliver all Side. That's right. We're all over, which was one of the very first projects. We talked about it again. That or renewal project a way. That's that's the way I'd like to frame it because it's really 2 very different philosophies and how to use the So. >> On the for say my comment on the CI the with a suggestion that you made about special assessment to that still be. customers will still pay a one or 2%. for what that just go, special assessment to owner of the property. Show. Great question. That city program offers coasts a program. You can do a sales tax and no special suspect. >> Were you can do just special assessment sales tax or you can do Right. And so every project will be a little bit unique. We want to try and focus this. Section of amended guidelines as if that were a whole private. So you might see in that particular scenario where if somebody is doing both the sales right, landlord might reimbursed for investments to make occur. But in sort of a triple that scenario, right? There's a special assessment is being added to the tax base because the tenant has to pay that right to reverse that. key points down. So it doesn't necessarily have to always included city bonded special assessment. You can have special assessment on the property and not necessarily be sitting on run to make sure that we make that distinction as well. If it were the latter come out. And that's something talk about when where and how cities played a part too private. Partnerships. This in this scenario. Yes, it could be, but could up to 2% doesn't have to be 2% of the one percent. That could be 1.2%, right? It's whatever that pro forma looks like to reimburse for those eligible expenses, there's a sales tax will return from other >> So for me, just like I'm kind of a council has been doing. I would prefer to see that more for. Areas and reinvestment, not necessarily the Greenfield and specifically encouragement to the special assessment side. Not not. Not specifically the sales tax because I would really like to see since we took out opportunity zones for all of our senators looking at historically redlined areas that really need some investment now, this could be a really good tool to do that. But instead of charging the folks there were lower and calm that extra sales tax. If it was more of a special assessment, I project I think that would be. Pretty beneficial. >> To a co-counsel Johnson and the request for guidance. I would also I don't problem for the restaurant chain component of it. I probably do have more concern to the Greenfield development side. And so it's more of the infill project. I think that's where I would want to use the see it. it's confusing community improvement district. How do we improve our current areas of influence? I think you said the geography is probably more. My concern, less restaurant chain aspect of it. Okay. I can agree that >> On the facade replacement program or how we replaced the facade program is that mostly city bonded special assessments. The problem necessarily. >> Historically, has been a little bit of both right affect. You all have entertained some of very days of late, right? We? Trying to be very specific about what the city's role in some of those and why the city got involved in some of those right. But as far as this first generation of the amended guidelines, this would be entirely just. It would be a private sector. No city bonding know city tax dollars being contributed to the project no taxpayer risk. And it's only that something to become back was later the talks about okay, what if there is a project? So for this conversation, a here today, I'm trying to keep that on. is a wholly private project. To your point, yes, there's no bonding or city related. We'll come back with something. Those are preferable something else that we even thought about. Right? Because I think there's a 3 D and it sounds like an urban feel that there's greater focus and emphasis on urban infill strategies. I think that's consistent with our comprehensive plan and everything else perhaps school or ranks higher, right to get greater incentives. We're not saying that we don't want to see feel development, but perhaps at rank as high. And so there's could still be an opportunity for you for somebody to utilize the ad and a Greenfield development, but perhaps to. Isn't necessarily as great as somebody cheating or community goals and objectives. Is there any appetite there? >> And green development to be. That may be one of the ways. One of the only ways that we can attract business industry, right? Because they need the space they need the location. So. I'm just fearful of anything that restricts it so that we don't continue to grow because if we have to offer to do is to get new businesses to come maybe existing businesses got incentives in the past. And so, you but if we the mission and one of the 4 pillars of our mission is to grow our economy. and so that's what I want to make sure that we're not limiting ourselves for potential opportunities. >> What I'd like to do if you don't mine is you. We've the next item, a star Bonds I would like to. And after that where next month we're going to start pivoting towards affordable housing and some of the last elements are kind of a nice transition into that discussion as well. You still have kind of meaty issues are and take some time. And I I don't want this go on Till 11. And you know, at 2 o'clock we're still talking about budget or whatever turned away. These guys out take for that. Yes, we have always come Certainly enjoying that. And think we've got some good feedback the last one of them might take 2 minutes to discuss. But then yes, I can breeze through star Bonds because we don't really have one last question about the see it. The last part. >> Maybe I'm just reading or wrong. the only petition signed by personal property owners will be accepted. So let's say 90% of the people want to be under the C ID but 10%. Terms of the development area. Does that mean all 100% are still have to participate in the increased taxes? Part of as part of the see it. >> I'm glad you bring that up. That's that was my exact point right of. >> If you only create see 80's were 100% of the property owners can petition to state statute on their cars. 55%. Okay. You could essence and up. We've seen some of these right where you end up with someone of a Swiss cheese district, right where you have some folks that are contributing to the district and other folks are right. You have some folks that are bearing so burden of contributing to those public improvements and others are, but they're enjoying the benefits of those public improvements. And that's where one of the things that we would maybe recommend it is eliminating the 100% requirement. Big for inconsistent, too. The district boundaries that are being proposed, right. And you're not letting one property owner, the holdout or preventing really good economic development economic growth from occurring right? And theoretically enjoying all the benefits of what the district might create but not having to contribute write. So to your point, rather than a barrier to economic growth improved. >> probably come back and recommend striking that. >> That is their percentage maybe becomes kind of arbitrary at that point in time at least getting back to the state. 55%. of the district. But this could be a recommendation that could be coming out. Probably like to talk about that a little more often, just like Anderson, because I would have concerns there's an increase of taxation of certain district and the business owner. >> Doesn't want that. Will that negatively affect their business of people are coming in. So just 1, 1, I would love to probably talk about a little bit more that real quick. Would there be a distinction between specials and sales tax because that that's where to foresee there being an issue. If you're. Making them increase the sales tax on people in a particular area. Maybe it's a you know, somewhere that a food desert or whatnot where the property owner does not want to increase the sales tax. So is there a distinction that you guys are working on between? See, it is a focus on special assessments and sales tax. I that's a great question. The way that it's currently written know, there is no distinction, right? So absolutely. It's great feedback. >> We kind of go back and kind of talk about what looks like from an application standpoint, are we imposing additional special assessment on the property owner that may not necessarily want However, you got to find that balance of there may be amenities that are being added as a result of the district. How do you then say, well, you didn't contribute so therefore, you can't enjoy those public benefits, right? And so this is somewhat of a balance sheet of. If we're focused on the eligible expenses or folks on the geography of those public improvements that everybody can somewhat enjoy. It really starts to What are some folks have to contribute and why do others? right. And that's kind of what the basis is behind Star Bonds. I won't spend a lot of This is a state program. Really? We we don't have any projects that were really its tourism destination focus. You must have a major commercial entertainment tourism project. There's a minimum 75 million dollar investment. 75 million annual gross cells. There's additional sales tax revenues for bond payments associated. You have to have a certain percentage from outside the the jurisdiction, right? It's got to be from out of state. And so there's a lot of benchmarks to tie to a star bond. does not increase sales tax rate. It's additional sales tax above and beyond that to go back and reimburse, which put in the category of sales tax rebate. And that will pass. We'll come back with. Part to be. Haha. Any questions? Again. Thank you so much. so on the housing peace camp. >> I know that the state statute said one thing. Can we really look at? actually have the ability under home rule to require the developer wants to use our incentives. Can we impose a requirement for affordable housing? I know what the one sentence S. Below that sunset, the end of that paragraph that specify zoning changes and not actual. Requirements on our incentives. really would like to know if we can do that under home rule. And have a charter ordinance that would allow us to do so. >> look to our city attorney and this becomes a little bit of a letter of the law. Yeah, practice of the law becomes was different and perhaps the letter of the law. >> Councilor we'll look into that. I know that's a question that's been raised will will get it. Get an opinion on that for thank >> on the topic. You may see a low-income housing tax credit. Waive a resolution come to you in the near future. I didn't want to forget that. Thank you so much. think we're headed to the discussion recommendations from Animal Control Advisory and I believe is handling this. >> Good Vice Mayor Council Janet Jarman with a lot of Hartman over here. I didn't. My side is Lieutenant Purcell with the Wpd. I thank you all for giving time today. I know you've had busy set items. So I appreciate time. try not to take too much of it. We're here today because actually this all started in 2023. when the animal Services Advisory board convened a subcommittee to discuss changes that they wanted to see made some of the ordinances and procedures that were happening with animal control. That committee met for some time and they took those recommendations back to the Animal Services Advisory Board made some recommendations. And and here we are today. After those recommendations were we've had some meetings between law and finance licensing division and Wpd to determine which of those recommendations that we thought we could handle at this time. And which of those we thought needed the table. So I'm gonna go over the recommendations that were made by the subcommittee. And I'll tell you the position our position on each one being wpd licensing and with laws input. One recommendation was that licenses be issued for both cats and dogs? Right now in Wichita, we only license talks. We don't license cats. And really at this point, we do not believe that there is current staffing available to license cats. That is a huge project. We don't have a lot of staffing. Animal services licensing was there's not enough people in licensing the handle. The vast number of cat licenses. And and we think that we have a lot of work to do in agreed with the subcommittee that we have a lot of work to do to get dogs licensed. Not enough. Dogs are licensed in the city. So we would rather attack that issue deal with that issue before we move working on cat. That's the position on that. Another recommendation was made that there be mandatory microchipping of cats and dogs. We agree. That's a great We think it would get animals back into their homes when animals are found running the streets. If every animal was required to have a microchip, it would help us keep them out the shelter, which is our goal. So and we think we can implement that. >> real quick, and this is more of a policy question whether it be possible to have chip readers, maybe in the vans with animal control officers or even at our neighborhood centers. So that way, somebody finds a stray they can bring in scan the champ at one of the center's and able to kind of bypass the hole, animal control process season. He's up the pressure on you guys. Not way we can returned them in a more timely manner. Yes. So we have Mike Richards readers and all the fans and some of the substations of Mike Richards readers and we have with the shelter. >> Veterinarians offices have him as well. There becomes issue. And what what information is released to the public? Because information on this microchips private. So we have to because that. So as far as putting out all the information all the time, that's a little more difficult. But if someone went to a substation to the shelter, we could we could help get the animal back to its owner. thank you. >> Another recommendation, is that right now people can get their get rabies vaccines for 3 years. One vaccine last 3 years. But our licensing doesn't allow them to get a 3 year license. we would like to see that change we would change the ordinance to allow a person to get a 1, 2 or 3, your license depending on how much they want to pay for in advance we would not refunds if someone license or pet for 3 years. And the pet they give the pet to someone else or the pet died. We wouldn't be issuing refunds in those situations. But we will let this isn't decide how long they want the license for and that would be dependent on if they had the three-year vaccine that bring You can only get the license for the amount of vaccine that you have on your pet. Another suggestion this was a more controversial the Ford right. The subcommittee recommended changing and the licensing price to $15 for altered a dog and $50 for an unaltered and that we would eliminate the fence discount in the microchip discount we agree that eliminated the fence discounts. Great idea without any way to check whether someone has a fence. So everybody just marks a have a fence. We agree that you should eliminate the microchip discount if everybody is required to get under new ordinance, then you wouldn't give a discount for it. We put out that that we recommended a $20 license fee for an altered animal 40 for other way around for an altered and then 40 for an unaltered the board really disagrees with this. They want to keep the prices as low as possible because they worry if we increase the price that it will discourage from getting licensed. And they also worry discourage people from picking up their if their pet is lost and have to go to the animal shelter. We talked about We'll leave it to what you all think. We know. I understand we want to take it to 15 right now. The current price is $15. So if we leave it at the current price of 15, comfortable with that we picked. 2040 because it's just easy. Remembers twice as much set. But people feel pretty strongly that you need to have much higher price if you choose to have an altered pets. So we're also comfortable with the 15, 50 and would be interested what you all think. Thanks >> Have we done any studies or did the or do any studies as far looking at comparable cities when they did increase that there, the number people registering for licenses. That number go down to do to stay even. >> I don't anything they didn't present numbers on on the rate licensing. They did percent numbers on what other communities charge and it really I think if I remember right, Omaha, some of them are more than us. Some of them are up to 30, but some of them are very as little as like $5. But there was no information on whether that had any correlation whether or not animals were licensed. Look into that. Okay. Yeah. I wouldn't mind seeing I do have a question just for context, altered and alter what I mean. That's Payton is made me OK. >> The next suggestion they made was to allow 3 dogs and 3 cats per household. The current wise to into. And if you have more than 2 then you have to get it or to catch up to get an animal maintenance permit. We were comfortable with 3, 3, It might decrease the number of animal maintenance permits that requested, which would be It be good for licensing. It would be fewer a applications that we would have to look at. Also, it seems to be a reasonable number that seems to be in line with other what other communities do. 3 dogs is not uncommon. 3 cats is not uncommon. So are there still restrictions pit bulls? Would that still be? >> To limit of 2 pit bulls? It >> Animal maintenance permit. If you have more than 3, then you have to work currently to sorry. You have to get an extra license for that. So now it would go up with this suggestion. Another recommendation was to add a dedicated employee to administer a pet licensing program that would be probably out of our licensing department. We just don't have sufficient funds at this to add a whole new position I will say, I'll say it later on because we're working with licensing. They're working with their vendor to some of the software that will help us with licensing issues. And we think that's a realistic thing that can be done but this time there isn't one person who could do that. Another suggestion was to partner with the Kansas Humane Society to vaccinate for rabies and license animals before they leave the shelter. great idea and Wpt is currently working with KHS to get that done. So it's that idea is supported by bias. >> There's there hasn't been any discussion about animals that should be required to be spayed and neutered. Also doing that while there it the Humane Society or is that? Maybe too expensive for? >> And you can add it was a if if your dog is and and is required to be spayed and neutered based on how many times has been running loose. >> They issue a You have to pay prepaid to get spayed and neutered and you get a voucher to go do that. So we there just I don't think they have capacity. KHS to do all the spay and neuters right now. What you want to. >> So khs space invaders, every animal that they offer for adoption. So that comes into their facility from Mars. It will be spayed and neutered reports turned out. >> Beyond all the animals that would go to rescues and things like that. The rescues are required to have those animal spayed or within 10 days of the. >> Of having obtained those animals, their state statutes that require these things as far as not releasing animal until it is spayed or neutered, then you come down to your at the shelter and the longer the length of stay, the more animals you have in the building that period taken off the street. So we operate with that model where we take a spin, deposit, a $75. That's in most places. Not going to cover a spay neuter in some of some of the low income service providers that will. But we take that deposit. And then that's redeemable upon receipt of this pain being provided. Thank you. >> Another suggestion is to increase license enforcement by sending reminders and phone calls. And we believe that this already happening to some extent. And we're going to strive to do more. Licensing says they do send reminder letters, but they're also willing to work with their current software vendor to see if we can add email addresses to the license applications. So maybe we could renewals out by by email which would be preferred for some >> don't always go get their mail on time. So maybe email would be a better way to do that. Right now there's not sufficient staffing to people who don't have their licenses, but we are committed to to really working hard to get more of these animals by since in the city to really something in the parks. Maybe that's a discussion >> our our parks director. But now that we have the dog parks popping up all over may be a sign out there says you need to have your dog's requirements need to have him license and even have a That's hard to our >> yeah, that's coming up. But QR codes, a great idea of the park. suggestion is to improve online information about dog licensing. We support that and we're working to get that done. And along with that, the suggestion is to upgrade online license applications, allow a first-time application online right now. You can apply for first time license online. And we also support that the board the board would also like to support all klice unseen uploads for vets. At this point, we make it very difficult for vets to help us. And we require input and we may. It's still antiquated and we are committed updating how on that's can enter the information that we need and we would like to encourage vets as much as possible to help us get these animals licensed. you know, we're going to work toward that goal. We agree with that goal. >> Another recommendation, it they want it as a benefit of being license because the board put some time into trying to committee tried to think of like how can we encourage people to get a license? Well, one way they thought to encourage people is to offer one free ride home instead of taking the lost animal to the shelter but we don't think we could follow through with that promise. For one something microchips migrate, they go down in other spots and you can always find the microchip but more important we're committed to getting the animal home, whether it's the first time it's lost or if if we can get the animal quickly to back to its yard instead of to the shelter, we would rather do that. I appreciate their effort. They're really trying to brainstorm and find ways to get the community to be willing to get a dog license but but I'm not sure we would rather just see the animals get back to their homes so that that's only reason. We disagree with that. Another recommendation was to improve the quality and readability of the licenses. And this is our last like 3 suggestions there like 12, 13, 14 when if you were to look at their numbered it it's all about our current licensing. Really. They're very antiquated. And they would like to see their suggestion again, as are trying to brainstorm ideas on how to get people to get licenses. You know what, the kids go around your neighborhood and they sell you the little coupon cards that, you know, buy one get Their idea was to put that on the back of a license. So if you bought a license, you would also get a coupon for sandwich and that's really cool idea. The problem is we just don't have the staffing to do that to go out and and find people who are willing to donate or perches these kind of plans. I love their idea on the licensing. They've they spout some other communities that have these like cardboard licenses or you can even put a picture of your dog on the license. Those are all really great ideas. We're committed to making our licenses better. They are definitely antiquated right now, but we just don't have the staff or the funds at this point to make of that great we are, though, committed Letting vets help us by using were docks instead of the form that is created by the city. I think we can get away from you triple platform. So we use a real small and really thin paper. So we do think there's some on improvements we can make. We're working with licensing on how to make those improvements at this time. And we are committed leave that old system behind. We're just not ready for the the nifty new license. It would be cardboard with your animals. Photo on to there may be a swag bag that comes along with that of. >> They animal control board wants to on their own, put together something like that through It's not taking up staff time. That can come along with a license or 3 or license. We can continue to brainstorm ideas that might encourage people. Maybe if there are events where it's a great idea, maybe if we want to Woodstock and we had some kind of table out there, we're getting people to license their dog. Maybe would have a swag bag. >> Those are all great ideas that we I think we probably could work on events and things like >> So where are we on our recommendations? We we went through the 14 points that the board recommended. have a few recommendations. In addition to that. So I just want to briefly go over with the ordinance changes to this point. Have we written and at this point on Page 7 of the proposed ordinance, we would mandate microchipping for all dogs and cats. On Page 10, we would eliminate mandatory outdoor kennels for dogs deemed dangerous. So right now, if you have a dog this deem dangerous, you have to have a candle that cemented into the ground. How many >> it's >> a it's a difficult process and we support. We know that there are dogs that need these camels. But we also know there are some dogs deemed dangerous that don't necessarily need the kennels. And if you live in an apartment where we've your dog dangerous. But we don't think it's that much of a problem with the community. We've we've just Destin, your dog for a euthanasia because if you live in an apartment complex, you can't get the kennel period. So either you move. >> Or or >> you're going to lose your job. So we would like a little flexibility where animal services could look at it and determine if that camel is necessary for the safety of the community because that's what dangerous dogs are all about. We dangerous so we can notify the community that there's a dog they need to watch So that's why we're looking to change that and remove the mandatory portion. >> Number 3, would eliminate the certificate of mailing on the notifications of letters for dangerous dogs to technical thing. It's literally that's Page 12. ordinance they do notify they notify in-person if your dog has been deemed dangerous, if they can, they will personally serve it. If they can't, they will certified mail. It and we will continue to do that. A certificate of mailing is a legal term that you put at the bottom of of a notice that says this has been bailed on this state. But since animal services use of certified mailing, it's not really necessary. And I'm not really sure that we're meeting that portion. So we'd like to just eliminate that. Number 4, we would increase the dog bite fines to $500 for a first offense $1000 for a second offense. $2500 for 3rd or subsequent offense. We would actually, though seem strange, maybe, but we would reduce possible jail time from 12 months to 6 months because really it should be a Class B misdemeanor, not a class, A misdemeanor battery to a person is a Class B, misdemeanor battery or domestic Viles batteries, a Class B misdemeanor it's just a technicality. But the important thing is we want to raise the fines on dog bites because we have a real problem in this community and we think it would be a showing of force to people who have dogs that are fighting other people that we mean business and we're not necessarily looking to put in jail, but we want you to control your animal. So what the current rates what increasing from But that down. >> think it's to 5501,000. >> And regarding the possible jail sentences how many people have jailed for dog bites. I can't think of >> Maybe a very rare. It would be a situation where we felt like it was intentional. Not just you had a dog that bit, but you knew are you sick to on someone? >> And that to get in the weeds but would have you just pay or would they don't have the ability to pay, then what happens? What's the next step? >> If well, if they don't pay goes to collections, you don't go to jail for not paying if you don't have the ability to pay but you're willing to do something you can always do community service that this was just to make sure happens. The only thing you can't do community service for court costs knows roundabout $100. Thank you. >> Number in ordinance that we are going to propose at some point we would allow citizens to obtain the 36 month license with the appropriate vaccine. The next we would simplify paperwork for vets to submit for licensing actually change the ordinance a little bit to allow the vets to turn in. The people worked less often and in a different manner. Number 7, we would remove the inspection of premises for the fence. And that's because we're not going get a discount for the fence anymore. And we don't really have anyone looking for the fences. So we were just remove that. >> Number 8, we would change a licensing at this point, we're not sure what to do, but we're open on that. But we would have to do that by ordinance. Number 9, we would clarify the language as to the rules of this is an interesting one will clarify. The language is the roles as to which dogs are exempt from licenses were not making any change. And what that means is if you are a service dog, not an emotional support dog, but if your service dog or if you're retired service dog from the U.S. like armed forces, you don't have to pay for a license and the way the ordinance is written is in a confusing manner where it makes some veterans. believe they don't have to get their dogs licensed. But really it was trying to apply to dog not to the owner. We're not exempting all veterans from licensing. We're trying to exempt special dogs from licensing. So we're just fixing that. So it will match what we actually do in It will just make more sense. Number 10, the number of dogs and cats allowed without an animal maintenance permit will be increased from 2 to 3. Number 11, an animal maintenance permit. We'll still be required for dogs or forecast. >> question about number for again, the increase dog, but fines. Is that also like dog to dog or is that just dot the human? >> It would be dot. anybody. >> On number 11, and 10, I suppose. What is the rule currently regarding roommates as pose to people living for the property. Dogs at the property. Is it? You're allowed to have 2 dogs per property. It has property, OK? So it's not per person at the prom. Every person, the help right? >> they try that sometime Property >> now a number 7, the inspection of premises where fans will still have the requirement that they have to be either fenced or tethered, correct. I'm sorry will still have the requirement that dogs are either fenced in yards or tethered secured essentially. Yes, we're not changing, run a large law at all. and will there still be inspections if it is a dangerous dog that we are looking to bring back? We'll still have to go back in. Check out the property and give the recommendations for for the Yeah. all. Okay. So yeah. I just wanted to make sure that we still have that. Yeah. And what you said earlier that one of the many things are trying to do is alert the public that there might be a dangerous dog in the area. I think the main thing we're trying to do is keep the dangerous dog away from people in areas are just one of the at that as Number 4, I'm okay with keeping it a 12 months just to get the Judson discretion in case there is a crazy case where somebody is taking a dog on on people. So that's my personal take us far that particular recommendation. Okay. as Mister Martin back here today. Did you guys do any city to city comparisons? As far as the licensing. >> the BBB of Microfilm. stand for. >> We looked to 10 other cities that are comparable in basically just said how big is Wichita on 5, bigger and 5 smaller. We look at all the different licensing situations happen. How many dogs and cats say aloud what times and links they did. What was your original question? it was the cities where you see a higher registration fee that the. >> Okay. Numbers were all over the place. >> Most people have utilization of there and Licensing. Are We had very good. We've had very low and falling. Revenue from animal licensing where where a a A a 20 year low right now, we've lost probably. What would they say? The what was the numbers? But a number? >> yeah, million millions of lost millions of dollars. Tens of millions of dollars 20 years. >> And when we increased the fees, there is a slight dip. What really seems there is a jump in revenue. Raising the I want to say in 2010. If excuse me by numbers are about a year old and my head years To wing it. but then the the number of people registering their animals has declined. And that's largely through a lack of veterinary for participation in the whole program. And public awareness and a lack of enforcement general decline. A lot of the other stuff that we had that what what said would require another person. There's a shortage of staff to do it. Those other seem like icing on the cake. But those are also the place with the fancy licensing. They get a advertisement involvement from the community, dozens of places that have the highest percentage of animal licensed. because you wind up basically with an incentive program where you have a license that gives people coupons every time there renew their license. They went to the consumer to the for some of the public. They wind up with a license that pays for itself with from supply places and things like that. But the city sees much higher participation and gets much more money out of it. And the business community, involvement with the public and another direct advertising. Levees. So it's one of those things that seems like it be expensive, but it's super super strong driver. And we would really like to see it just for the participation because for us on the our hope is to get people's animals home and back to them. And that's why we would like to see. more involved measures and true the cats to go take a lot of people, but it also all of money. That it would be an investment that would pay almost immediately. And the cats home. We don't get very well at all. About 2%. Of animals turned into the animal shelter. Get back to a person. That they came from and about 25% of them out too. Adoption. >> 25 1% of dogs come back And we'd like to both of those numbers go way up. >> I appreciate it. Thank you. I'm good with this. Last items related to the budget update. people. >> morning. Sure, everyone. Good morning. I'm Elizabeth Goltry from the finance Department. I'm giving you an update on the budget this morning for people who may be joining us for the first time. Whether online or in person this is our 4th birth Budget workshop this year. All previous can be found on YouTube as well as our social media town hall events that occurred earlier this month. And then additionally, if you'd like to catch us in May, we'll be at the district advisory boards next month and then we'll have another workshop toward the end of month. The topics today are to an updated financial outlook for the general fund and then to connect the budget outlook for 2026. Back to the quadrants from the community survey to provide some feedback from residents ageman as well as our next steps. And then get you up to date on the process for the CIP, the Capital improvement program. And this is an update of the graph for the general fund It's relatively similar to the one that was provided to you earlier. However, the gap in 2026. To 2028 has grown since then. And that's for a variety of factors. Mostly on the wage side of the General Fund budget. just as a at this point, the balance and the permanent reserve is just a little bit over 30 million dollars and the gap. Barely be enough for 2 years of being that gap. So it's imperative to come up with to start working out on some structural adjustments in advance 2026. quickly on the budget and this year we're expecting a modest to the 2024 budget is pretty similar what the adopted was. I'm to mostly due to revenues in franchise fees is why that surplus is expected this year. And the 2025 budget is close to being We're not quite balanced yet, but any changes that would be incorporated into the budget to help 2026 most likely would have an impact on the 2025 budget. So I'm hopeful that those 2 things in tandem can get the 25 budget to be in balance. I'm part of that. The challenge there is we have there's some continued cyclical revenue growth, but heavier public safety cut costs and that budget. And then in 2026, deficits are expected to jump in the much larger to to cyclical revenue declines. I'll show you that. And then new public safety expenditures. So what this means for developing the is it in 2024, that most likely will be available for one-time community priorities and they connect to the Citizen survey or the community survey at the end of the year 2025. Relatively is expected to be a year service service service, stability. But it is not not a time of It will be time a service stability. But with there's needs to be a lot of work to be done in order to have U.S. balance in sustainable budget starting in 2026. So it's a period of transition. And then 2026 in order to be balance, it's going to require to address structural issues. So this chart here shows you the difference in the budget from 2025. To 2026. So the deficit is not the difference between 17 million 5 and a half because as you remember 2025 already a little bit unbalanced. But the big drivers for the expenditure growth first employee compensation in case you're not familiar with that. We don't have any contracts in place for 2026 yet. So when we employee compensation changes that are outside steps for employees who are on a great step plan. Those are budgeted in employee compensation. So that's budget globally. And then the other item worth noting expenditures is the retention of the safer grant positions. That's something we've talked about for quite a while. And included and and our projections. But it's itemize here. And then the other line budget increases that are throughout the rest of the general fund departments and including other other and create other increases. Escuse me in the fire department go through those next. On the expenditure side, we expected decrease in interest earnings and 2026. Compared to 2025. the interest earnings are expecting in Twenty-twenty 6 are still quite strong in any period 5 or 10 years ago, we would have been thrilled with them, but it's still a decrease compared to 25. I'm property franchise fees and local sales increases that are pretty typical of a study that growing economy are budgeted and 2026. and one interesting thing to note a property tax for 26 is that 2025? Is the last year that the next test is collecting. So that will go into the general fund and local governments >> If I'm a real quick so are we saying on we this is including us. not getting any grants like the safer Grant or any replacement grants for those positions. >> That would be that the period for the safer grant ends. So the grant. period of time. And so there's no retention requirement for that grant. But what's been modeled is to keep those 42 positions and transition into the general fund. >> As of this is just we keep those positions. We don't have any additional grants aside from safer. Also to help pay for. think you could get a second grants for positions that you already have. All right there for new positions this year. >> Those are the for another batch positions. >> did not apply for Safer grant this year because of the concern about sustainability in that regard and adding those positions. There is a provision that if your you could get you can apply for super funds if your Limon a team because it potentially eliminating positions. So if the budget show, but the 42 positions are being eliminated, there's a chance you could be eligible whether or not you should be funded for the extension. It's probably not very but I believe that criteria. So we are looking into that, right. We have to look at that you can apply now. You have to wait until you're at the end of that safer grant period. You can overlap the 2. So it we reapply for safer grants and kind of reallocate the 42 positions too. >> New like positions, I suppose. Is that a little trouble or? >> No. The only thing that would be eligible for these 42 would be if truly are looking at layoffs. And to him be tried to save those positions. And again, I think that's that, you know, the chief would know better than I in terms of the criteria, but it's not the same as adding new positions as we have in the past because it we've had targeted purposes for those positions. thank >> I'm sorry, We talked about this yesterday. Would we actually have to lay them off and then apply for the grant us you have to least have plans layoff Whether try to do is prove >> That provision tries to prevent a layoff. But normally that's if you're and other budget conditions, you're talk about laying off existing staff, not necessarily just to continue a grant, but it I mean, I think you you could still apply. But you have to be at the end of the grant period. So the budget increase of the 5.4 million for expenditures. >> Is increases excluding employee compensation, correct? >> Yeah, it could be steps for employees and departments >> 7 create plan so could still include aspects of employee compensation. Well, yeah, it employee compensation is a broad term that we use the pool. Does that make sense? But in the other category, guess this one includes steps for people who still have You are represented. What else could be included it could be increases in. New They're like 4 and a half million over all the departments isn't much. So it's mostly complete calm. It's mostly wages and benefits. So we do budget is 6% increase each year for health insurance. The increase for 24 was less than that. But that's what we budget each year for help. But that's, you know, that's across yeah. entire rest the budget. So you're talking about increases in contracts, commodities but Elizabeth help me in that other category, isn't that also staffing for a new fire station in 2026? No, not more. we had to. >> Well, for retaining see for granted. It's just surreal. >> think there's a little disconnect. because you've got to slide. Later on that. I think talks about. Additional expenses for fire station yet. Anyhow. >> And then next, if if you don't have to all do have questions about this one, I can move into how these budget changes connect to the quadrants and the survey. That's okay. So here's again. Departments in the for those of us. Those in your home that's up also up on the screen. So what I've done is I've able been able to connect about half of the increases in expenditures from 25 to 26 back to this same topic says in survey. So again, employee compensation is global, but some of these connect back 2 divisions. So the green quadrant is things that have lower importance and lower satisfaction. so. Generally you would expect there to be less in of an increase because these are lower important services. And that's the case There's pretty modest increases here from 25 to 26. >> If I can, I got to speak up on this one animal control is obviously a really big issue in my district. So I I see that it's over on the lower left hand and the green low importance. Low satisfaction or might not that is one that I do think we need to beef up because certain areas of the city, it's that's going crazy with the the increase and the number of animals intakes, just some of the issues we're facing with dog bites and male Aleman getting attack. So it's it's definitely something I'd like to speak up for him. Bump it up and be put up as best as we can. we'll get into that discussion. But there's tradeoffs, right? So you'll see you were in a pretty strong deficit position. And 26, so it's what would you give up? And I don't even know yet how we're going >> Fill that gap. And 26, we have ideas on what we're doing. But >> to have. And then next is blue, which is the upper left. These are things they were rate is being lower importance during the last survey. But there's higher satisfaction even less growth here than in the green quadrant. And a lot of that is street lighting. There's it's only contractual specially for utilities and some repairs and then swimming pools and splash pads. The budget. There's a lot because it they have seasonal employees. So this is the changes there. And then the bridge into is area of focus for this year's budget process. These are things that have been rated as high importance yet low satisfaction. Crime. Prevention is one that I have not itemized out yet and that something on the to do list. But for street maintenance, municipal Court and public Information Services those divisions in the budget. And so I connected those back to this. And again, pretty modest growth for municipal court. That's the entire department. So it's it's entire department of lots of people. So very small there. >> do see the need for? fairly large increase court? >> Pardon they that they have. There's a lot of employees. with employees come thing, if it's in so health insurance increases by 6% a year in the budget. So are they running behind? Are more demand municipal court? Why they a lot of employees. Why do they have a lot of employees like they? You know, have it's Increased employees was no, no, it's just it's it's a relatively large department. I think it's one we don't talk about a lot. It's not as big as fire police public works, but they do have quite a few employees. at $130,000 increase and their budget from year to year. Just all parking, it doesn't seem like it's that that there's no new positions. And that number now. that's me. That's a of effort. >> Level as well as probably a little more work and diversion some things we're looking at in terms of service. Better service of outstanding award for outstanding warrants. Some things like that. >> Yeah. So these are all as is Even though we had the socially you town hall event. So we got a lot of good feedback. We haven't incorporated in any of those suggestions into the budget yet. So then there's the orange quadrant. So this is the one >> where >> residents rated the services being high importance but also higher satisfaction than other services. And when we started with the budget process, it's year one of the stated goals. Let's to continue to provide well rated services in the orange and >> and in it, the orange quadrant is inherently challenging because police services and fire services. Those are 2 of our larger. Those are 2 largest departments in the general fund. >> And so even with modest increases, you're going to see large as a dollar value large amounts. And that's been the case with the last 2 contracts that have been approved. There's also a longstanding history of funding these services. which is probably. It reflects priorities. And so. It's just it's challenging to attack the magenta quadrant when there's so much already allocated here. Just a matter of dollars. So during resident engagement, we had this to social media town hall events on street maintenance in crime prevention. They're interesting. And there are a lot of and they're all very topical again. I think that we will be able to incorporate some of those concepts into the budget simulator that we're developing from a and then we will also be presenting district advisory board meetings. And we're looking forward to that as well. So regarding the capital improvement program, we got a lot of great feedback at a previous workshop. We're working. Project review is ongoing. And the focus on maintenance is really The development for this year, a focus on that rather on expansion. we're really focusing on projects and looking at those and making sure that they're consistent with prior planning processes and using the survey results to guide Project So time. It's happening to says you just as you told us, we're making that happen. >> Regarding cip aspect of the. When we're focus on maintenance rather than expansion. So I know that it's often president to take things from Cip to operating budget. However, we're facing a pretty substantial deficits. >> In terms of rejecting Cip says there are any standing policy. Something's rejected that. It goes back to the operating budget. How does that process work? So let's say we reject some of the cip in terms project. Does that automatically go back or workers? The So I think there's as far as projects not making it into the cip. There's 2 types of projects. One would be a proposed project that never. >> He's incorporated into a cip ever. And then the other type of projects to community conditions are priorities may change in a project may be removed from the cip. There aren't very many cases where projects removed from the cip and then it becomes an operating budget expense because they're usually not interchangeable. >> I think the question, oh, yeah, I think the question is, if you drop projects from the cip, can you then revenue for the operating budget? And council has done that the once or twice. I think in the time I've been here it's difficult because what you do that as you lower your debt levy and then that creates a problem in the future as your capital needs grow. Typically what's happened is you kind of project. Another project comes along is deemed to be of higher importance. >> Yeah. And the other thing is for Z impact on the operating budget goes, I'm focusing on maintenance projects, rather expansion hopes the operating budget. Potentially on the building. The facility site focusing you know, things that make a building a little efficient or HVAC more efficient can save costs. And then avoiding expansion projects that lead to more expenditure. Pressure is also helpful for the operating budget. So just a really prudent approach in this climate. >> Ask a question that we are going to have some expansion projects, right? mean, degrees. There's one in my district that we've been working on for several years, that its 6th and expansion and we have received outside funding such as grants. But we need capital dollars for match money or, you know, things like that. >> Yeah, you know, when we score the projects projects that have outside leverage received higher scores and then there's a slight, I think the last presentation about, you know, the first thing is you look at existing debt service projects are in progress and then projects it are under design. Your land has already been cast those sort of or not. This is not a shutting a stopping current projects. Yeah, this is more looking at projects that may be worth 3 or 4 years into the future that had and there's no land. There's no designed planning hasn't occurred yet and thinking is it better to prioritize something in the vision to quadrant for something that is just and that makes her I just wanted clarify because there's objects that are already in designer. You yes, that it would be. >> Yeah, I I forget sometimes that. I can make people really sorry, that that's really I think that we've heard that from. You guessed it will be some expansion projects. I mean. >> Technically, I'm a new police station would be considered an expansion project. really what we're doing is we're making we're building a police station. The police staff that we have. We're not adding police staff to staff the police station they're overcrowded and COVID really hot that to our attention. So so when we're talking about expansion projects that those are the kind of projects that were avoiding. Its projects where there's been little planning. There would be outside its operating costs, that sort of thing. >> it's a yes. how about 2 fire stations that we are? Working the one south and the one north. So since we've acquired land and all of that, those are so forward. >> I think that land has been acquired for one of today. that correct? Right? We've acquired the land for the Southwest, but not for the Northwest And we're looking at again because of the numbers we're looking at the financial impact of both of those stations and whether or not there's a way to get the service to delay the construction of one and get still not see a degradation of service still still see improvements by adding one of those 2 stations. We just started that process covers looking at options on how we can get this budget I don't know if we're going to bring the recommendation forward or not, but that's one of the things we're considering because of the flight. The financial. Of adding fire fighters for 2 stations. I think >> big concern is that we have a have a new fire stations since 2009 and I did the math between the population and the population from 2009 10 hours, 170 people estimated that we've had and we haven't added any more fire stations. So we know that there's been a lot of growth, you know, in Southwest and definitely northwest in. I'm going to really hard trying to pull those projects. We talk about public safety all day every day. How it's one of our top priorities. And I'm just going to really hard time trying to minimize those projects. I think we need the police stations as well. But there are a little more Then fire firefighters at the front. The fire station. Sorry. Meaning that the police on the street. I know there's they go to substation as well. But a little bit different for the fire for the fire station. So I just want to make sure that we know we have some difficult decisions to make. But I think those are incredibly important, too. Stay focused And we'll be bringing forward will be data driven. we've already seen drop in response times improvement in service levels just by shifting equipment on the West side. >> Because we had to do that this past year to address some of the service issues so that we're going to look at what the impact will be. We have projected response times and other data for both of those 2 stations. That's what we used to justify the stations. And so what will you so says the benchmarks as we go forward? I appreciate looking at the I just like the vice mayor's concerns. That's the one area, a town where we have the land and the openings to have some growth here in the city. I know. >> My district's pretty much locked in a number of our districts are locked in that we are anticipating as saying the majority, I think of the growth out west here in the near future. So just making sure we have the infrastructure in place beforehand. Again, it goes back to public safety as well. So that be interested to see how this conversation goes on the future. But I share the same concerns as a vice mayor. So are we looking at DeLand, Northwest? >> Fire station. We have landed a fight for that. We just haven't been able close on the deal. Timetable remains in place, though. Fans, if we can get that parcel of ground right now, that's what we're talking about is what the timetable would be for that station. And we're we're looking at the buzzer simulator. When you go to the orange quadrant where the increase for fire over the course of 25. 26 U.S.. 5 Million 150 thousand. >> Doesn't include the fire station. Crux of this cip project, not an operating budget expense, right? This is the concern is not capital. I think we put capital side for both of these stations. So I don't think that's the issue. The issue is the ongoing operating So is the staffing of that station included in that number the last? is. think the southwest excluding that way, I guess is by are not the 5 million dollars in class just wagered it's just which increased its the retention of the 42 safer position so. It's implementing the 42 Saturday for But they go from being in the grant to being the general fund. >> so in addition to those, we still have. So some of those are in our model. I believe some of those can can be shifted to help with the fire station. But there is also, I think 7 team new positions. Associated with the new stations of our remember on top of the 42. Something like that. I don't trust my math. I have to go back and look at notes on There's above and beyond hiring in order to both stations. >> Can you remaining what about arpa dollars? We were using arpa dollars for fire police in and if we don't proceed with something only the capital side. Yeah. Read if we don't, personally would substitute another project that eligible in the Cip. >> Okay. So It could free up the little cip capacity but it help with operating 26. Yeah, understand the operating budget. I just thought hypothetically, I'm not saying this is what's going to happen, but we don't proceed with one of the new facilities. Then the money that we have dedicated from Arpa would go to another project that we knew we could accomplish an in the arpa time which is. >> Therese committed by the end of this year and spent by end of 26 6. Yeah. the only are only cip are for projects control east which yeah. >> Moving right along and then the library project actually which are relatively small. >> And then we've used our budget cash fund, some equipment and maintenance projects. So heavy equipment things like that. yeah, sorry. There's so much one the 2 and a half million for the medical response for a fire. That was our part to write. Yes. >> And that will yet we're not be we will not be spending that. >> So where's that money? you have an allocated where? We'll come back to you with that discussion. >> We're all likelihood the recommendation from staff will be to put it into Mack to offset the And you made the decision that cut that program for the 2. And believe we have the staff level because we can't reach agreement on a accomplishing that project. All it would do is help you cover a deficit for 2 and a or 2 years and then we'd be week. It's not sustainable after that. So least a million dollar loss in the medical program every year after given our budget climate, I can't bring that forward to you with that problem. >> And and technically, it don't think the entirety of the arpa funding has been initiated. Get the gist partially initiated. Pass time. >> like to projects that we talked about that we've talked allocating money or it's already been allocated. I just don't like hearing about things getting cut from. Firefighters or police officers just was that he could do a better job. That hearing that from staff other than outside of, you getting a text message or an email from somebody that is freaky now and then I have no idea what they're talking about. So if we could do a better job, educating us before it leaks out and comes to us and we look like we don't I just appreciate To the council to make a final decision medical. But I I did include that my weekly update. >> Recently, so. >> Yeah. And and technically I know this isn't helping. People are upset that technically projects maybe ten-year cip. But it's it's a plan. It's a program. They're not initiated until the city Council takes action. And the same is true of any we have to plan the city Council takes action each time we projects initiated. I know that doesn't help and people are upset, but that is the process. >> So if if we put some of the money, DARPA money into like the libraries that you say, the funding that we have a lot of for that are going to put that into the where we want to put that in the savings. What's planned for any of the replacement funding? >> I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. All of the money plan for the library's is going to the library's to the branch library complexions. I'm saying if you have extra unspent arpa money. >> That we have to reallocate at the end of the year and we're going to put it into projects that are ready. we are to have funding identified for those projects. Is that funding that we already have identified for those projects going into the permanent reserve going in all likelihood. >> I don't think we're going to have much to be honest with you. What we do have available council will have to allocate. Probably this summer rate in order to make sure we can get call fully committed before the end of the year. And right now, the only thing we've talked about is allocating money to the All right. Thank you. >> All right. In the one place Arpa funding can mother suitcases and one of them is a reserve. So, yes, extraordinary pension expenses. So we do have those so. All right. be ready for approaching the next slide approaching the operating the 26 budget. >> you know, the budgets of financial plan, it's an operating plan and it's a strategic plan. And this slide really falls into the operating plan, part of the budget. So there is a lot of staff work on this slide and that will be happening. under the umbrella process improvement we've been talking about a lot during the budget process. Is efficiencies that make our staff more as if you if you remember from the prior charts from earlier salaries and benefits are about 3 quarters of the General Fund budget and a lot of our departments. There are more than 90% of the budget just weren't very service ribbon business at the same time, it's no surprise to any of us. We have a lot of vacancies in our departments. And so the I think that's just coming through over and over again. process improvement is using technology and also just. Doing process is more efficiently so that people employees can focus on their core work. And so that a big It's. Across departments to that would be innings. Just shouldn't be medically what process would be. And that also ties into service efficiency and effectiveness. we doing it through a review of how services are performed. just a lot of changes on the demand side and also just and how work is performed in the last few years. And there's no better time than when you're facing a situation like this to buckle down. A look at those. Technology and data-driven decision-making is also somewhat An example of this. We've been talking about quite a bit is in our fleet operations. They serve. They largely they police and fire, but they also serve our utilities and public works and parks. And person public works have been facing persistent vacancies. It's really looking at what those employees are doing that also what is the right size composition of the fleet for those departments and then leveraging technology? To look at interval cycles. replacement intervals and that has a impact on the general fund as well as the cip and heavy equipment is in the cip and then also They've been forced to outsource a lot of repairs to aging fake in-season fleet. using that information determine what are the best repairs to be doing in House versus what are the best repairs to be extremely that's really I say this is staff It's very operational. But just an example of the sort of things that we're going to be doing >> during this period and lastly is the cost recovery period, which the presentation before was a nice segue into that. They set their fees administratively in a force already personally seen that they've been increasing some to increase or cost recovery. When I tried to sign up for some summer things, which is good news because their cost of increased to, you know, just the cost of lifeguards and instructors and staff planning their fees are increased by governing by the governing bodies. That's something that they plan on doing relatively soon is increasing those fees. So they they increased their cost recovery know they'll be. >> Let's burden on the general fund of both governments and then also the discussion dog licensing was very relevant to this conversation less. There seems to be less of a focus on increasing the fees and more focus on increasing the number of people who have the licenses. And and so that could have a positive impact on animal control operations post. Sounds like and efficiency and how they operate so they can tell to whom animals longs. And as an increased revenue stream. >> Quick question the 2026 budget because 2026 was probably a 2 million $1.14 to 16, 14 to 16 and going out with 2020. We're looking at 20 million dollar. Discrepancy. Yeah, it grows. >> So when we're thinking about I know of the manager in our one-on-one showed us how many vacant positions there were, how we don't. Any analysis of what's a position has been vacant 2 years. Chances of that position likely to be filled. Our tough compared to position when you're even the some of the positions or 3 years as the report that in a budget analysis of something's been open 3 years. It's probably in continue to be open. >> Yeah, we're you know, we're working on that. We've on the other side of the positions that have been so multiple times. So so nice for you in a very short term employees. So looking. The retention recruitment and retention side of it, which public works is taken on the challenge. And I think has some. You spoke hurt approaches that can be applied in other situations that they've been experimenting was because they face the challenge head on right in their service delivery. But then also looking at some positions that may be very hard to fill in this environment and I know some departments that are looking at alternative ways of doing that work. It's hard to give up that position but I'm looking at different ways doing or so. Looking at both sides of it. >> So, some things, you know, not filled for 3 years, but I imagine department has adapted to that change over those 3 years. maybe that's a huge cost savings as rice and and then it applies to the heavy equipment in the cip. How many of these people, you know, apparatus to we need? Are there different weight? You know who who? How many people are going out on this each day? >> Force tree was ahead of the curve with the gravel trucks. They purchased one and now they have a second. And so that allows them to do. You know, to automate some of their work. I don't know that there's that many other opportunities like that out there. But you know, we're always we get plenty of suggestions from departments and that's the kind of challenge that, you know, what are the what's the right mix physicians? What's the right mix of equipment? What can we are to me? What can we do more efficiently? All of it what do you budget for you? Budget for full employment? >> we we include planned savings based turnover rates that we've experienced in comments in the past. >> What are the national economic forecast you're basing this off of I know there's a lot of been saying for about 3 years going to be in a recession just around the corner. So it is planning for a possible recession in the future. Know, as I mention in this light on slide 6 about revenue I think that the revenue assumptions that are in this are >> they they're they reflect steady growth during a period. So around 4% for sales or property tax, which is. >> Pretty strong growth. 3% for sales tax to know why not, if not models a recession into this. So that would change the outlook significantly, particularly to most likely interest interest rates decreased. So the interest earnings, but Foley would decrease even faster. Thank you. Good question. Here's like why we're on the topic of side stories. Like >> so so those that that slight is what what we're doing. This is the budget is an operating plan works. So there's a lot of there's a lot of good things to be done here. I'm so over on the budget is a strategic plan I think there's a lot to be done to. I mean, best case scenario is you can come up with 14 million dollars and efficiencies and service delivery. >> You know, rate, you know, putting all these things together in the background and nobody ever notices. Unfortunately, 14 million dollars seems like considering that we have a longstanding history efficiency, the well-run city, part of our mission statement starch, there's room for improvement. But I-40 million dollars is a big bite. And so that being the the budget is a strategic plan, particularly for 2026, really needs to reflect the strategies in schools of the organization at large, as well as particular departments. The community survey will be out in the field again this fall. I don't expect big mo movements, but it's always good to have refreshed data. And the 2 social media town hall events had lots of good feedback from residents. And I think as we move more through this process years. Probably room for more so that's that's really you're you're rolling your feedback And in. >> And getting to a balanced budget for 2026. So set a reminder of the calendar. Again, the simulator we're working on getting that ready. And then we'll be out of the jobs that may another work sharp right after Memorial Day. And then we'll wrap up the budget in June will be presented June and July will be presented on July. 16th. So that's what's ahead for the budget process. At least this will be the 2025 proposed budget will have the 2026 pitches in it. And and so suspect that the 2026 budget that will be on in the next budget document, very much work progress. quick question. I all the budget projections, our 2028 are projecting us to exceed revenue neutral rate. That's correct. So was. >> Our projections of that isn't the case. Do we have like just a model that too? We did one last year in response to that question. >> Mark, what do remember the amount of revenue that was cut if we us went to the neutral rate. >> that was my recollection is a loss of right. >> So twenty-twenty a deficit of 20 million could increase to 35 Yeah. Price since you Because just speaking to between. 25 and 26 is 4.7 million. But that's an estimate. And that's >> investment. We don't know what be okay. So and then it would be the 4.7 plus, if it was another 4% growth at the forefront 7. Plus 4 point, you know, it just it just keeps growing. So now it's a great it's a great question. >> So but this is based on our prior practice, which has always been set them the levee at the same rate as the previous year. >> Vice mayor, that's all we have. If I can. Real is it okay if we get a breakdown? I know we looked at it before when it's come up a breakdown of the positions that we're paying for with the safer grant. >> That would in budget document. If you go to the fire department section, there's that pay. Well. There's a there's it's. There's it's all fire for its first saying, oh, it's for adding firefighter positions to its all firefighters. That's my recollection as well. we'll get Okay. I believe there was some training. >> Some positions and there are 2017 safer Grant has 12 firefighter grant funded positions and then the 2021 safer Grant has 42. Okay. appreciate you go carry this around. Anything else. ♪