e e I'd like to call this evening's Cork Room Planning Commission uh meeting uh to order uh attendance brummond here uh Lind here lantman here kazii here and I'm sorry Peter how do I pronounce your last hard Greaves hard Greaves uh thank you uh so we have enough here uh I would uh ask you all to join me in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge alance to the FL of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation God indivisible withy and and before we dig into tonight's uh material we do have uh two new uh planning Commissioners and uh if you could just take a moment and introduce yourself hi I'm Cecilia kazaki my husband and I built a home here 37 years ago now and um over on H County Road 19 in ster Farmstead we' got a five acre lot over there um I just retired recently from a job at srf Consulting group I worked there for 23 years I was a graphic design manager and worked with a lot of Engineers and planners and designers so got kind of an interest in that type of thing and decided to check out the city council or City Planning Commission my name is uh Peter hard Greaves I'm a practicing architect uh I got registered in [Music] 1986 and I'm a recent transplant from the Washington DC area thank you and uh we do appreciate your your commitment and your your volunteer time to the city of corkran so thank you um Commissioners and staff are there any amendments to tonight's agenda Mr chair staff would like to remove item 8 AI the commercial industrial update discussion we are anticipating additional work direction from Council in the next couple of meetings and so that discussion reserved for uh potentially April maybe me okay do we need a motion to remove that no um it would just be a part I think of the motion to approve the agenda okay uh I'll make a motion to approve the agenda can I get a second I'll second oh I'm sorry commissioner did you have a comment I I did so I'd like to make a recommendation perhaps for next month's agenda where would this be the time to do so or when would it be the right time to do so uh I'm I'm sorry to to do what about next month's agenda I'd like to add a topic for a future month okay to perhaps propose an amendment around public notice for proposed PUD applications and I say that because I think in our last experience with Hope Community church and just the impact on the community that that had and I know the neighborhood meeting is required um we had good participation here um from residents but I'd like to see if we can propose um an amendment for perhaps broadening that scale whether that be through signage or additional mailers but driving additional visibility to the public about when those hearings and open forums will be so typically the practice has been for priorities to be forwarded to council and then Council weighs in on what is a they agree as a priority and that directs staff time to bring additional topics forward to the Planning Commission um so I could certainly certainly relay it that that but typically staff time supposed to be authorized before we dive too much deeper into a discussion like that okay is that something that you can maybe draft a short couple of paragraphs up and submit it to staff if that's how Natalie maybe our staff would like us to handle it I can however the appropriate way to do that is but I think it's an important thing for us to figure out how to address in the next few months um so I can follow up with you to see how the council would like us to direct that conversation because it just we already had the we already have a work plan adopted for 2024 uh so just making all just go through the process of seeing if we can amend that and how they'd like to have that brought forward if that's a discussion at a council meeting versus starting the conversation here so I can off with you sounds good good thanks thank you uh I'll again make my motion to approve the agenda can I get a second I will again second okay all in favor say I I opposed thank you uh I'm now going to open the floor to uh you folks and I don't think we're doing Zoom anymore correct correct okay uh so I'm going to open up the floor uh to the attendees here tonight to participate in the open Forum so this is your opportunity to address us and uh but understand that this is only for items that are not already on the agenda uh is there anyone who would like to address anything with us a topic that is not already scheduled for discussion tonight buer buer anyone okay thank you uh do I need to close the open form or we just move along okay uh let's see with respect to the February 4 or February 1 2024 Planning Commission meeting uh minutes can I get a motion to uh approve those minutes I'll make that motion and I will second it all in favor say I I all oppos I did notice one typo of a resident name 15 that's all and what was that Mike patteron which which page is that on I'm sorry page two B subset two number 15 we'll have that corrected okay is that it all right thank you uh Natalie I don't think I need to close anything can we just move right into new business correct good okay uh and I'm I'm sorry I I know I'm gonna mispronounce this can someone here tell me how to pronounce your organization K Center it be okay I'm I'm slow can I just call at the center is that okay I don't want to sound disrespectful it is Center okay I have nine kids so big words elude me okay so uh Natalie will you present the staff report thank you so the first hope hearing tonight is for I've already forgotten colling Center um it is a conditional home occupation license which we issue through interim use permits so the applicant drupa Ros and the other property owner is watai wwin and they are both applicants in request approval of an interim use permit for the conditional home occupation license to allow them to teach meditation and Buddhism classes at their residence 233 Oakdale Drive R Poe is the Buddhist chaplain of koling Center in Minnesota it is a nonprofit organization as the chaplain and Resident teacher he is the sole employee the primary activities of the center are classes on Buddhism and meditation classes are free of charge and the center is dependent upon donation the applicant also provides counseling services to those seeking spiritual support and bereavement care uh code enforcement first became aware of the center uh when we received a complaint at the uh middle of 2023 end of the summer of 2023 that there appeared to be a potential place of worship operating at the property uh once staff reached out to the property owner and explained that it was a potential or that it was a zoning violation to be operating the applicant immediately ceased inperson classes and moved to an online format to determine and pursue the proper approval processes with the city to allow for in-person classes to resume uh so classes have continued but they've been entirely online oh that's me I'm next okay in working us have someone else do it so in working with the building official and the City attorney it was determined that this use did not seem to fall under the umbrella term for place of worship classes typically have 10 to 15 attendees typically there are five to six additional cars as many attendees car pulled together because they're coming from similar directions for the Minnesota building code spaces used for less than 50 people are not classified as an assembly use as a typal church would be the applicants stated that they consider kaching Center to be a center for studies not a religious institution the house is not open to the public previously the applicant considered the classes to be open to the public where anyone could attend or invite someone else however in understanding the limitations and concerns of the building code and operating within a residential neighborhood the African committed to implementing a pre-registration process for classes in order to manage the number number of attendees so staff Compares this use to that of someone teaching a yoga class out of their basement more so than a formal princi worship facility this is a screen a zoomed in screenshot of the site plan um what you see is the uh the existing house on the left and the meditation room is where these classes would be Health it is a large finished recreational room uh and then the proof of parking is what's shown so it does they proposed parking lot 20 parking spaces this was actually done at staff's request to show that parking could be accommodated should they need parking regularly for more than five to six cars their park their current driveway would accommodate five to six cars on a typical week however should they have um additional need either documented by the city or should the applicant determine that they need to have additional parking we wanted to make sure that there would be enough space to accommodate the anticipated attendees worst Cas scenario if everyone's driving their own car so that's the exercise we ask them to do this is considered proof of parking they are not proposing moving forward with expanding the driveway at this time if they were to expand the driveway in the future they would have to go through an administrative process to have the grading plan thoroughly reviewed and where the driveway is currently shown to expand there's a potential Wetland so they would have to go through a wetland delineation um and if there is a wetland it would have to get Wetland impacts approved so potentially you would actually see this driveway move more North so than West it might be easier for the applicant um if that is needed in the future so the proposed iup for the license would allow the following once a week classes of up to 25 people the term classes includes meetings or Gatherings related to the controlling Center or a similar organization as he is very involved in mini foundations um and then Sundays from 10: a.m. to noon would be those once a week classes that's currently anticipated oneon-one Counseling Services these are by appointment Wednesday through Saturday between 2 p.m and 6 p.m and then larger Gatherings of up to 49 people up to five times a year is what's currently allowed in the resolution the Africans narrative States larger events would be seld them PS two times a year so this five times a year was just a starting point from staff to try to balance uh a properties owner right to gather uh with the fact that this is um there's an organizational use behind it so no structural alterations are proposed at this time the resident already has the finished recreational space for the meditation room and again the driveway expansion would not be happening at this time it was the the site plan was just for proof of parking should it be needed at a later date so staff finds that the standards for an iup can be met with conditions added to the use so those conditions include that pre-reg pre-registration for events and classes would be required classes can only be up to 25 people once per week maximum attendees for larger events capped at 49 people and then parking must be accommodated on on site we cannot be uh overflow parking cannot go on to Oakdale in the front yard parking must be on an approved surface uh for the city code to be able to comply with our parking standards and then should the city find a documented reason or the African determined expansion of the driveway is needed they would go through that administrative approval process and potentially Wetland um approval so uh the last week staff did become aware that the applicant had a gathering at his house the applicant posted a spiritual leader that was visiting from India last week and it was unrelated to the kalling center however an impromptu meeting for a separate Foundation was held at the property uh so when staff went out to the property and confirmed there were several vehicles that would have been and that it would have been more in line with the parking anticipated for a larger event as defined in the proposed IP standards so the applicate explained to staff that this particular event uh was one time unexpected occurrence kind things kind of snowballed from what he expected uh additionally he there was some confusion as to well if it was not related to his Center how does that work um and I would also say some of the parking of where the parking was occurring that was just a matter if he hadn't had the chance to read the staff report quite yet to realize that that parking couldn't happen in front yard on grass so some of that would be resolved by the standards outlined in the iup and so the draft resolution also clarifies that the frequency in conditions of approved classes in larger events would apply to similar organizations just to make it clear that this is all under the same scope uh and the applicant does understand that at this time uh and then just to provide a little bit of background on interim use permits because we do have a couple of new Commissioners and uh as well as large attendees today a large public attendance tonight so standards can be added and modified in the proposed draft resolution and an effort to ensure the proposed use fits within a residential neighborhood iups have a sunset Clause unlike their counterpart called the conditional use permit which runs in perpetuity in the land so the iup would automatically expire when classes cease um he's no longer holding classes he's no longer operating the center neither applicant leaves lives at the property or the property is sold so it's not transferable iups are reviewed administratively at least every three years to confirm ongoing compliance and then iups can be modified should the city or applicant find a need at a later date finally iups can be revoked should conditions of approval be violated at the this time uh staff recommends open opening the public hearing to take testimony staff does recommend approval of the interim use permit granting the license the Planning Commission uh can definitely make changes to the draft resolution and uh if they choose to if they find uh denials more appropriate then findings of fact should be provided to staff so we prepare that resolution for the city council great thank you for that great report Natalie uh do we need a to open the public hearing or no um no you you open it as the chair we take a motion to close it okay well with that I'd like to open uh the public hearing at public meeting I'm so sorry do I do do we want the applicant to say a few words first typically we do it right before the public hearing yeah yeah that would be fine and then that way they can hear what you have to say instead of usually it's the other way around hello good evening my name is and thank you very very much for making time to be here I know in America time is really precious that you all have made time to be here and of course I didn't want my meet my neighbors this way but this is the situation so I'm happy that you know my neighbors are here maybe lat have personal handshake or something so basically I wanted to introduce myself so I came from India I joined Monastery at a very young age and then I was in Monastery for over I don't since 1988 so I studied uh in Monastery over 17 18 years I graduated and then I had the opportunity to travel to Malia to do English courses then I studied English and then I had the great Fortune to do I had a great Fortune I had a great Fortune to do uh psychology bachelor's degree in Psychology so that led me to do Masters in positive psychology in America so that's how I ended up being here and then I have a friend in Monastery who has this who owns this Center so after I graduated the United States gave me one year to gain experience to work so I came here to work uh and I found a job at University of Minnesota to do uh as a researcher so while here ruch my friend asked me could you please you know teach at kuling so that's how I ended up being the resident teacher so presently I am a chaplain at uh nor Memorial Hospital so I'm an intern so so that's about me so my classes over there so what happened was this place was given to me and culing even though it was established started in 1997 puling doesn't have its own property so when I inherited some kind benefactor offer this place so I said that why don't we use this since we have to keep moving from one place to another place all this so it's kind of a a difficult situation for us so that's how we started so I thought that you know because this is just my property and I'm not having a big Gathering so I can just teach there and after covid things have changed most people prefer to do I mean to uh listen from online so we started the classes and then yeah we received a letter from City and then that very moment we Seas every activity and then we came here uh sof guidance what to do next and that's how this application uh went forward and I think the recent incident I think there were quite a number of cars there I want you to explain the how this happened it was not a public event it was not a culing cent classes nothing to do with culing what happened was this year the we started because it's his Holiness 90th uh year anniversary so there's organization they oh we wanted to uh organize this great three-day prayer Festival prayer session for also to uh commemorate his Holiness every sh his Holiness is kind of show gratitude and also for the world peace so they started having this as three days prayer event in uh New York in Minnesota and in California so when they were coming here so there's this preing uh what do you call a very a prominent uh uh M Lama so they were looking for place or the person to stay so I said my house is available so why don't you you know let the person stay here and he came with the anach I think four so to five and then R being that prominent ruch and he has many students so people started to come to see him so you will see these people coming in and going out and then the last day after the event they wanted to brief about this three days event and then they also wanted to seek guidance so the kind of closing advice what should we do next so for that they have other plans and the Lama said that I'm too tired why don't you all come here and then at the last minute they say oh we were so busy we are unable to finish the account let's first fix the accounts so that's when they all came there first doing all that account and then the R's relatives and those students since this is the last day we want to spend spend the day with M so that's why certainly so many people came and that's what it happened so it was not a public event I really followed the CD's guideline so that's what I wanted to uh explain and I'm sorry if it has caused you you know any nuisance but I hope we haven't made any loud noises or anything so that's I want to say and I really hope you will support me in this application and I I can understand why people are very about you know these small things sometimes people oh are they cult or something else I'm follower of the I think you most of you know that who the Lima is so there won't be any loud noises or anything we just have Sunday two hours classes that's all be yeah so thank you very much that's all I want to say thank you thank you so we ready to open the public hearing I have three comment cards Mr chair and then unfortunately we did not have more comment cards prepared for tonight so we will start with the three that we have and then we'll open it up to additional comments okay thank you so first I have um I think it's John is it John ra might and as he's coming up I see him coming could you just run through the guidelines for public comment real quick and just for review please so I do so we do ask for remarks to be limited to five minutes particularly since we have such a large group tonight we will have to be strict with that limit tonight um indic and then please start with your name and address for the record and um typically also if if you have comments that have already been stated previously uh you can you can just confirm that um that you agree with comments or certain comments that have been stated and then if you have anything new to add then that is helpful to help continue the discussion thank you thank you good evening my name is John Ray I live at 10639 Maple Lane East and I and my wife Paula are steadfastly against the approval of the proposed resolution and strongly disagree with the staff report agenda 7A specifically mentioned um specific specifically some sections I'm going to leave out in order to maintain time part 5A this section indicates that the approval of the CH L would allow multiple variations of classes and other large events of a non-determined quantity this uh can be interpreted as several types of class I'll get it I'll get it Focus thank you there we go by uh it would be PR 2020 part 5A which section indicates the approval of the CH will would allow multiple variations of classes and other large events of a non-determinate quantity the nondescript paragraph can be interpreted as several types of classes held weekly in addition to the large events which are also defined as a specific maximum quantity while five is mentioned no specific maximum is defined the c h is written as it is written is in fact clear and distinct departure as well as being in direct contradiction to the previous residents chol a dog grooming business where CH Michelle britz P 06119 23132 clearly states in condition number two no more than five cars or 10 vehicle trips per day are permitted therefore again the chol request should either be denied or modified to comply to the letter with the forementioned chol precedent to bring them into compliance with the city's stated standard for this home part 5c the document States it's not expected that this use will generate nuisance conditions I disagree with the intent of the statement in that it is their instated intention to hold multiple large events most of these events would be described as outdoor events which would be held during summertime early summer to fall that means with a quantity of five there would be May June July August and September we hold this area very dear in the natural settings in which we reside again the chol should be denied um skipping ahead here uh part three zoning and land use they have demonstrated their intent to grow and expand excuse me this business into a large operation which will require 20 a 20 car parking lot firstly no CH approved by this city should have need to accommodate 20 cars bulldozing those trees and putting up a parking lot negatively impacts the nature of the neighborhood as well as removing the sound barrier that Shields us from some of the traffic noise on Oakdale further the parking lot has been identified as containing a portion of a larger Wetland complex during heavy wet rains this it this would redirect the water right into the adjacent yards and potentially into our basements we are against the proposed parking lot and formally requests that it be removed from any further consideration part 4B and C consideration being made for potential property devaluation of adjacent strong properties and the use is currently is about as impactful as a weekly book club or family gathering I disagree the history of repeated large Gatherings with multiple cars after being told not to by the city and the further stated intent to hold multiple large events with tents and Porta poodies in addition to the proposal to put in a 20 car parking lot excuse me clearly negate the comparison of a book club or a family gathering part or F the impact of the neighboring properties shall be considered before issuing a chol I have detailed multiple reasons why this proposal will negatively impact the neighborhood and demonstrated the fact that this in fact is not indeed a homebased business but is in in fact an attempt to create a formal business Enterprise leveraging a single family home any one of these points indicate that this chol should be denied and the property be used only as a single family home as was intended the intent to take a wonderful single family home and convert it covertly to a major business Enterprise of any kind is unacceptable and is not permissible by the city of cour con codes to quote our own t our own mayor Tom mcke budgetary and City Planning decisions made this year will determine what corkin looks like forever we are at a crucial point in our developmental history there is no second chance we do it right or live with a consequences forever do we retain our rural charm or become a halfhazard patchwork of unchecked development corkran needs to refocus on City Planning that's assisted by experts and created with residential consensus thank you John thank you hey everybody please please V the next speaker we have is Carrie Horton please state your name and your address my name's k Horton I live at 10512 Maple Lane with my husband Mike a lot of what I say is going to be similar to what John said but it's from a little different perspective anyway the back corner of our lot shares a common boundary with the Oakdale property and we have a full view of their backyard from our property I've lived on Maple Lan for 14 years and a neighboring Greenfield for 19 years we choose this rural residential setting because we value the peace safety space and privacy that this neighborhood currently provides we know our Maple Lane neighbors we respect them and we look out for each other it truly is a great single family home neighborhood and we've always considered the Oakdale property as part of our neighborhood this application request is from a well-organized nonprofit that purchased the Oakdale property specifically as the location of their spiritual center a spiritual center does not sound to me like a home or a residence nor does it sound like a homebased business the persons who are part of the center are referred to as members on their website this is an organized membership group similar to a church not a homebased business that has customers the applicant States in his narrative that parking has not been an issue because people tend to car poool especially given that Oakdale Drive is a fairly long drive out of the city does this sound like a neighborhood Gathering of friends in a book club no sounds to me like a group of people that live nowhere close to this Oak property in the city code it mentions there is a clause that mentions authorizing and regulating uses for a property which may be beneficial to the general welfare of the community whose Community are we benefiting by allowing this request it seems that the community who benefits doesn't even live within the boundaries of corkran but are strangers to our neighborhood the applicant also states he thinks that the neighboring land uses are mainly Farmland has he looked in his backyard remember I said we have a full view of their backyard as do most of the other single family home properties adjoining the Oakdale property one of the provisions in the request is that overflow parking will be allowed on the lawn in their backyard as we sit on our backyard decks enjoying a beautiful summer day we could be looking at a parking lot instead of the natural partially wooded backyard view in our neighborhood we don't invite 25 people that have requested to visit our home via a website who do not live in our neighborhood into our home each and every week to meditate attend a class or for any other reason and we certainly don't invite 49 people over five times a year and put up a tent and porta potties my question to you is who's going to continue to monitor the misuse of this property the neighbors as we already have been doing for you this organization has not asked for permission or followed city code already if this application is approved what is to stop this continued Disobedience or ignorance of the code regarding any future expansion or plans their erased online history tells us that these classes have been open to the public in the past at other locations without a preapproval to attent I don't think the request you're considering today is their endgame keep in mind that the recently remodeled meditation room which is part of the no longer existing attached garage in that house is over 1100 Square ft that size room alone can hold 100 attendees this request will definitely negatively impact our neighbor neighborhood for all of the above reasons to maintain the intent and integrity of our rural residential neighborhood I ask that you deny this request thank you chair lman may I speak please yes real broke the mic we're g to be all night if we're going to Applause and everything else our our Planning Commission is listening to every word we don't need to do that and it will not be tolerated at city council either so if you could I'd really like it if you would step through that be resp go from there I keep breaking the mic I'm sorry little further my voice I'm little bit of levity you guys all have good ideas good thoughts this person is requesting something and we're here to listen but the Applause and stuff is not necessary thank you very much thank you Mr chair thank you Council next we have Arnold be okay please state your name and your address my name is Ary gy I live at 10638 Maple Lane East Rogers Minnesota which is Corp I formly request that the Coran Planning Commission reject this approval of iup or chol for Ching Cent I met with Natalie Davis am I doing something wrong there okay I met with Natalie Davis M on March 4th 20124 and told her that there was 18 cars at the kaching site she said that they cannot do that and she would look into the matter she also said they are not allowed to have meetings at this time I also have concerns about the commercial parking lot of 20 cars and extra emergency parking I do not think the Planning Commission should approve at least 50 people at this site for five times a year the coaching Center said it will provide outdoor tents and Port portable toilets this property is a single family residents on a lot that has serious drainage issues on parts of the property our house is directly behind the coaching Center a parking lot will make the problem even worse the coaching Center plan are more similar to yoga class than a place of worship they also claim to be like a weekly book club and on large family gathering the culing center also States parking may not be a problem because many members will carpool because of the distance from the cities they said that more people come they can park on the lawn that was written by these people here the celing center will adversely affect the affect the perception of our neighborhood and potentially our property values I don't feel L sing Yi or lob sing Yang two different names there is being honest or truthful about the use of this caching Center lobing claims his name change is a typo he his name is spelled differently on all the documents this is not a couple of letter Miss prints I once again respectfully request that the Planning Commission reject the coaching Center plan I have pictures I have a picture here of when he had 18 cars there and I went talk to Natalie and she went out and talked to him and I took pictures and I seen her go out there and talk to these people uh this they're not following the directions here that's kind of what I see so so once again once again I respectfully request as the Planning Commission reject a coeling uh Center plan sorry about this that's okay real quick couple of things short please um please address the commission not others in the audience including the applicant again we're trying to keep this respectful a b uh the last name was my eror that was not it was not a typle on the Africans part that was completely my error I simply wrote The N the name that rhymed with this first name so that is my fault just to be clear I don't want him to be accused of providing false information when it was completely my eror so just to be quick can I make a state am I yeah briefly just one or two minutes please okay uh ask you know that the uh his name is still double on what you have or his name's on two different places written differently what you're sending to the council so there was a revised report that was uploaded last night to the website I looked at it it's still on there name so at this point what's in front of the applicant or the Planning Commission tonight is a resolution that says his proper last name which is yesi so I will make sure that it's corrected for this the city council meeting but again that was me reading the name incorrectly and typing it incorrectly that was not a fault of the applicant okay thank you thank you do we have any more cards we have no more cards okay well hold on are there any other members here any other residents here tonight that would like an opportunity to address the Planning Commission I saw a hand in the back please no no sure thank you Mr chair just again repeating was said you can say agree and then if you have something new to add or like I said we'll be here all night okay name and address um hi my name is Molly canor um I live at 10500 melline we are to the west of the property and we share that property line my husband and I moved out with our kids three years ago from New Hope um and we wanted the bigger space and just to raise a family in a a more rural area um we have a 5-year-old boy and an eight-month-old daughter and I'm not comfortable with a business of any kind in my backyard um with the potential of strangers coming into the neighborhood I feel like it's a safety concern um and um possibly you know the same thing about the larger Gatherings I'm not comfortable with that um that increases the number of people coming into the neighborhood and the number of cars and again kids and cars you know it's a safety thing we're right there we see everything that goes on um I'm just not comfortable as a parent with any type of business in my backyard um I think businesses like this are great but not in a residential neighborhood not when we moved out here to get away from that in New Hope I could see the railroad tracks I could see all houses just a block away from us I could have stayed there but chose to come to corkran and I'd really like to keep it that way so I urge you to please reject this proposal um this business needs to go in a business area not a residential area thank you thank you anyone sir please state your name and your address sure I I'm kind of a loud mouth so we okay without the microphone well no we have people on zoom and people out in the in the lobby if you sure my name is Mike berer I reside I could just comment my my wife calls me a loud Mouse so I think we have something in common please I'm sorry go ahead sure my name is Mike biner I reside at 23160 Meadow View Drive which is near Oakdale Drive and uh County Road 19 I can see the at issue premises from uh the living room in my home I've been asked by my neighbors to address a few policy issues and how the city code applies in this matter um you've already heard from other folks in the neighborhood and I'm sure there's more that are going to speak but I'm going to try to just address code real quickly and then an issue I see with the application and the resolution ofself so the city code is abundantly clear with regard to home occupations in section 10:30. 100 the purpose is clearly defined the purpose of this ordinance is to maintain the character and integrity of residential areas if I could are you referring to subdivision 7 uh no at the very beginning of 10:30. 100 where it has purpose okay um that's just what I'm speaking to there and then I was going to uh discuss subdivision 4 Fe okay thank you um Within 4 C it says any home occupation shall be clearly incidental and secondary to the residential use of the premise shall not change the residential character thereof and shall result in no incompatibility or disturbance to the surrounding residential uses the proposal before you violates the requirements set forth in the code and in the Pro proposed resolution my first point here is that the home occupation is not incidental in secondary to the residential use of the of the premises in explaining this I'm going to rely on some of the words of the gentleman to my right the puling center maintains an active YouTube channel um there was videos posted on July 5th where the gentleman explains that a kind benefactor P purchased the home and she wishes to remain anonymous this benefactor is a very sincere and diligent student who expressed to me her long-held wish to provide a place for me to give teachings on July 9th in a live stream the gentleman States I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the benefactor Pro for providing this huge place as per her wish to to Really to benefit and reach more people so I hope and pray together we will be able to fulfill her wishes and we will be able to reach more people and help more people as we know the Counseling Center is an organization has a board of directors Minnesota Texas and New York so I ask the commission does the center sound like a home occupation or is this the purchase of a single family home by a f benefactor to be used by an organization for purely organization purposes again the vote the code is very clear that the purpose of the ordinance addressing home occupations is to maintain character and integrity the second point I would like to address is based upon the application submitted to the city sure I'll I'll make it quick the application States the applicants as laang yesi and na na win they list their address is 82 or excuse me 8924 Olive Lane North in Maple Grove not the Ed issue premise on Oakdale Drive looking through penipen County property records in January of 2023 Miss win conveyed the property in Maple Grove to Mr Yi that property is currently a homestead property in Mr yashi's name on July 7th of 20 excuse me on July 3rd of 2023 the property at issue was conveyed by deed to M Mr yesi and Miss went what the city has not provided to us is where these individuals actually live and reside in the resolution it specifically states that this permit is non-transferable the permit shall terminate upon any of the following if the applicant ceases operations if property ownership changes if neither individual to whom the license has been issues issued ceases to live at the subject premises we do not have Clarity of where these folks actually live we know there's two properties they have conveyed property between each other before I know I'm running out of time so I'm not going to go through everything but one thing I do want to say um to the Commissioners to the council members the gentleman here brought up the fact that he worries that people will think he's a cult or his organization is a cult we don't believe that sir and what I what I would suggest is that the City Planning Commission city council try to find an acceptable properly zoned property for culing Center and its activities a residential neighborhood and a single family home is not a proper place for their activities thank you thank you you in the back and hello hello hello neighbors um I'm Cody Holland I live at one24 one420 County Road 19 I am the horse farm that he refers to in the application that's across the road from them and we moved to to corkran seven years ago looking for a rural place for our horse farm and I agree with everything that's already been said um we want rural residential we don't want a business and mostly what I have for you is just I agree with the part about how um they need a they need a business location not a residential location and I didn't even know this was going on as an iup application until the letter came in the mail what three weeks ago at which point I read it and it said you know we pulled the stuff off the website and it said all all activities ceased when they were found out from the city in October that they weren't supposed to be doing this and I'm like well that's not really true because my window looks out at their place and lots of things have happened since October when supposedly everything immediately stopped but when I got the letter I started taking pictures and I have a few of them um the March 4th one you all know about because somebody came to the city and reported it um but I have some other ones to share with you thank you I also have a copy of the prev owner I you can give it to the chair he'll pass it down thanks thank you m i do you want a copy um I take a copy for the record you need a copy for the record that's my question yes I'll okay sir thank you my name is Mark jerf I live at 10647 mle Lane East just Northeast of the property that we are discussing today I had a wise man once tell me seek to understand before you seek to be right in a world that focuses a lot of attention on being right I thought it might be fitting to start by trying to understand now while there's a lot I don't understand admittedly I want to begin with a few things that I'm trying to understand first I understand that corkrin is changing from the construction I witness every day on my commute to the development at Hope Community Church corkin is changing every day and change isn't necessarily good or bad it's an escapable part of life and we've entrusted you with a major role in guiding that change second I understand that it can always be easy to sit in your chairs you are asked to marry the colliding world of Rural America with a bursting Suburbia and the decisions you are asked to make rarely make everyone happy I want to personally thank you for your hard work and for those of you who came in as well to be here tonight and ask that you would continue to advocate in battle for what is best for our city and its residents it is my understanding that the cul Link Center has done many good things over the years I understand that it was founded to support Tibet nuns and now continues to promote the values of kindness selflessness and inner peace under the teachings of dbra renum who is here tonight I understand that after 25 years in one location the kachu link center was found without a home and that this was believed to be the long sought solution to a long journey I understand that you as a Planning Commission are making an effort to accommodate this request I think that's probably your job the changing language across several documents the past months shows me this to try to get the request in compliance and I'm glad that you are an accommodating body it's a good quality and I hope that our city is an inviting place that welcomes diversity however I hope we agree that accommodating this request should not come at the expense of the surrounding neighborhood now we can argue about whether or not the kacho link center is and their use of the property uh qualified as a place of worship and the code ramifications of that decision is it possible to have Gatherings with shrines and and golden Buddhas and yet not be a place of worship the answer to that is semantics and politics and I don't really want anything to do with either of those but what I will argue and my perception is this is that the property was purchased with the intention of using it primarily for classes events and activities of the kolink center there's abundant language in many places to support that statement and the use of the property thus far confirms that I would call it a religious or cultural Community Center I believe this is a better comparison than using it uh the comparison of a yoga studio or a Christian Church in fact the owner wrote in a January 25th document that in quotation marks we agreed to permit the center to carry out its activities there the center to carry out its activities those of us who drive by several times a day can attest to this most nights when I drive by the lights are out the house and there are no cars in the driveway you already know that the garage has been remodeled to create a large meeting room my understanding is that Mr yesi was not the one without a home when this property was purchased but the caching Center was the one without the home I'm very concerned specifically about the provisions granted in this proposal in regards to large events in addition to large events the document from 1026 also mentioned weekend Retreats for 40 to 50 people unless otherwise specified this could mean a multi-day overnight events this is a safety concern in addition to sanitation and septic concerns while I'm very much supportive of a Buddhist resident teaching meditative classes out of his home and I mean that sincerely I am very much opposed to this property becoming a religious community center the activity on the property the Kat Link Center website and videos posted online all give compelling evidence that the latter and not the former is what's happening at 23360 Oakdale Drive for this reason I'm asking you to not recommend approval for this request if you choose to recommend approval I would like to specifically ask that any language allowing large events and a potential parking lot would be eliminated from The Proposal as many other have mentioned and I would implore the city of corkin to be accommodating to and work with the owners of 23 360 Oakdale Drive to find an appropriate venue for larger community events I'll close with this my 8-year-old daughter plays often in one of the backyards adjacent to this property she and her friends build frog land a big mud trench in the back of the yard we're all thrilled about it with the frogs that they catch in the neighborhood I can send her down the block all the way to the other end of the neighborhood confident that we know each of the neighbors and that she'll get back and forth safely please don't disrupt the wetlands behind her friend's house please protect what is a rural residential neighborhood please don't build a public parking lot in our residential neighborhood I wouldn't let my 8-year-old Walk Alone down the street in a commercial area please don't change the dynamic of this neighborhood by allowing a community center to operate on a residential property thank you okay thank you any other comments questions can I ask a question sure he brought his daughter with and I was wondering what she thought of him thumbs up or down did he do okay she doesn't want to answer I'll I'll stop a future politician she loves frauds too any other comment we've already heard heard from you I'll give you two minutes if you can keep your comments I'm sorry he's not an applicant to be clear oh I'm not allowed to speak oh okay I'm sorry I thought you were one of the applicants go ahead no no I'm I'm not an applicant I'm a non-resident my name is Ken tobacman I live in Brooklyn Park 10792 Kyle Avenue um for 18 years I was the president of the board C Center I'm the longer president of the board I've been part of that Community for a very long time and um I based on comments that I before the the meeting um I I expected this kind of response from all of you and I have to say is a great deal of disappointment um you you know um caching Center has met in people's homes for decades um in in um Richfield Minneapolis um we had Retreats out in my house when it was in in um East bethl a number of years ago um we have never had anyone in the community question us or or have any questions about what we were doing and so of course I'm very very disappointed when R bought this property he planned to spend part of his time living in the house and part of his time living in Maple Grove it's a long drive out here and he has a lot of responsibilities in town yes I grant you that you know he would not have bought not interested in teaching with in that house in in here in corkrin um but I'm I'm really disappointed that the community isn't more welcoming um this is this is a community you know it could be people meeting with him that neighbors could when we first came out for his welome in party we saw someone walking down the road and she very friendly and very friendly waved at us and smiled and kept walking with her dog and I thought yes this was a a good place for ruche to buy a house so I'm disappointed I would hope more from this community I don't think that we're doing as as his guest at caching Center disturbs this as a rural community um there's no construct interal and visible to you all I understand concerns paring parking area um I had some concerns about that too but in terms of the use of the property and his residence there and what we plan to do there I'm just very disappointed in all of you I would hope that Minnesota kns would would have some Sway in the decision here and your decision as as the commission the Planning Commission thank you for your time thank you any other comments two two minutes thank you very much I understand because uh and I not only understand I respect your feeling but some of the things that you mention are not true so right to clarify so a lady when I okay sorry when I mentioned that we seize all the activity what I meant was all the classes of course there are people coming in and because I'm in the middle of renovation remodeling so there are people coming in and also there are people coming to see me and it's my house and I think I have the right to have visitors so when some when you mentioned that oh the they even claim that Seas the activity but did I could see from my window that's not true there was no class held since we received the notice all the classes were held online and then another person kind of accus me for being fed giving you know using different that's also not true that's not unfair I respect your view I understand you have your own concerns and of course I leave it to the Commissioners to to decide but I don't really agree when you you know accuse me of all this so anyway thank you I respect you and I leave it to the Commissioners to decide thank you okay thank you with that can I get a motion to close the public hearing I'll make that motion I'll second it all in favor I I all oppose uh Natalie thank you again for the work that you've done on this uh report you did a very nice job um is everyone okay uh with me going first on this is that okay Mr chair did you want me to speak any of the items that were um brought up during the Planning Commission I'm sorry during the public hearing sometimes sometimes for deliberation that's been helpful in the past so it's up to you that we can do it later yeah no we we'll do that later okay so again uh Natalie thank you um like uh one of the previous speakers here tonight uh I read the city code and section 10301 100 requires this Planning Commission to consider the impact on neighboring properties and I don't know how we can do that effectively without notice of this meeting being shared with the neighbors so first can staff please confirm for me that neighbors were notified of tonight's meeting absolutely Mr chair as part of our normal public hearing process we do mail out notices to every property within a 500 foot radius additionally notice was posted on the city website in in the Crow River news finally uh the development sign policy uh was a little vague but we went ahead and to put up a development sign to make sure that notice was clear to anyone driving by the site as well great thanks for clearing that up for me so I I cannot think of a better way to get the facts we need to deliberate tonight than hearing from Neighbors and uh I just wanted to make sure that we have a complete record to evaluate so because of this I am especially grateful to all of you in attendance here tonight so thank you uh based on the comments received uh tonight almost all of which express some sentiment against approving this application uh I believe that we have a record sufficient to show that neighboring properties which are residences will be negatively impacted by approving this application one of the things we as a commissioner uh as a commission are to consider is the the general character of the area where the chol is proposed on that point I tend to agree with the um neighbors uh with the comments I heard tonight neighbors who believe that something like this application should be in a non-residential Zone especially considering that a 20 space parking lot is contemplated by the application uh additionally I understand that land owners want to be free to have family bar uh barbecues and the like but I think that this has a distinctly commercial aspect to it and for that reason uh I think that this uh commission should recommend denial of the application and those are my comments um okay I will yeah um thank you uh commissioner lanterman firstly I want to say I just recently took a trip to Thailand which is a majority Buddhist country and I have great respect for what you do and your faith and so I appreciate that um I also want to comment that many years ago I was a student at Handover Elementary and I used to drive Oakdale Drive every single day and it's my favorite Road in Corker to drive so I totally agree with the great Community you have and how beautiful of a road it is in your overall Community um I support the comments that you made I think also the nature of the business being donation-based versus a transaction tangible service present presents a challenge in that business is always on if a someone visits has a good experience decides to make a donation the nature of the business I think will be difficult for the permit to control um and and to make um something very controllable and in the control the experience for residents um I also certainly agree that a 20 car parking lot is inappropriate um for the neighborhood and um many of the reasons stated tonight I I certainly came to similar conclusions so um if I also recommend denial but if we do um go other ways I have thoughts on adjustments to the uh to the proposal as well so we can get there if we need to thank you yeah I have a question for Staff first um and that question was what was driving the pro again um it was helpful to know that it was proposed that basically it was an exercise to determine that enough parking would be um would be uh allowed there but my question is what drove the exercise in determining the number of parking spots how is that determined I know how it's determined when we have a commercial business um what drives it when we have a home occupation and part of the reason I'm asking this folks is that as we go online the nature of home businesses is changing um and so I just I just want to ask so it it there was no formula used because it it there really isn't a formula used for home occupation businesses for example we have um iups for car repair and we don't use our typical formula for car repair um for car rep facility and the home occupation so the the number 20 I believe was just thinking well if you if you're having up to 25 people worst case scenario probably would need um up to 20 additional spaces in addition to the parking lot I'm sorry I keep that the driveway they already have it's already a fairly significant driveway and it probably accommodates more than five to six cars as it is today and so that's why it does the like staff agrees to if for this to move forward to require them at this point to put in uh an additional driveway expansion to accommodate 20 many cars is excessive especially when the experience that they had prior to ceasing the classes was that they have five to six cars on a typical Sunday uh which fit on the drive way as it is with room to spare but really that was just an exercise that okay well worst case scenario you guys do have some growth and trying to figure out the limitations of the I the iup how would this be accommodated and it was basically an exercise driven to show that parking could be accommodated here and then being able to also um infer that it would also be able to go to the north theoretically there is space to do that it's a 3 acre lot so that was the that was the thinking behind it from the planning level and that was um and that was not a proposal from the applicant the original site plan really uh the original thinking was that they wouldn't need any additional parking that was entirely driven by staff's request just to try to make sure we thoughted through okay so is it possible in theory to to um issue the conditional home occupation license with restriction around that like because for me that parking lot for some reason even though it's an exercise really does push it to Beyond residential and So within the parameters of of allowance is there a mechanism in which an a modification can be made that really limits that if additional parking expansion is needed then that is a part of what what moves this from being able to be a conditional home occupation license to needing to be a center that operates somewhere else or you know I guess I'm looking for what is permissible for us in that so if it's something if you wanted to say that there the driveway cannot be expanded and but parking must be accommodated on the driveway um limiting it to the cars that are on the driveway uh as it is today um I would just just keep in mind that yeah residents today can have as big of a driveway they want as long as it's not in durage in utility ement and we have residents whether whether or not they're operating a business that have quite large driveway right I know and I'm not looking to make anything I think the distinction there is that they're operating residentially entirely and so I guess that's that's what I'm looking for within the framework of a conditional home occupation license is there um are there different boundaries that we can put around that that would really make a distinction between this is no longer a conditional home occupation license this needs to be you know in a different and I know it's new so maybe it's just not anything we've we've additionally explored I think if we're um you know I guess in my framework up to this point their conditional home occupation license are available for residents to use their homes if they can meet the standards so I think someone made the comment earlier about not wanting any business in their backyard but that is a that's a restriction that is something that's available to everybody um so I I lend myself to to seeing if there's a middle ground here um and allowing um the conditional home occupation license maybe with some different parameters um if it's if it is I understand that there's a lot of uh discussion about whether or not um things were being followed up to this point but I just want to review the fact that an iup can be revoked if certain standards are set out and then they are not met and so in good faith I guess I'd rather offer somebody the opportunity to comply with um an an iup for a conditional home occupation license rather than deny it all together um that's a part of where I am at I also want to indicate that um it over in Maple Grove there is a residential neighborhood that does buns backyard which is like an outdoor theater experience for families and they have I would equate that to these large gatherings I guess on a different um they actually have far more people at that residential um location but it's it's an entirely rural residential neighborhood and so I guess in a framework I was thinking Matt I understand again that the distinction here is it's not a residential home I and I don't feel like any restrictions we're putting on those large Gatherings would impact residents who want to have family reunions or want to have a wedding in their backyard like you know what I mean I just want to be careful that that is the the Lynch pin for me that that is really the distinction as we're talking about operating a business but I am in favor of discussion and then trying to find a middle ground by just uh amending some of the um conditions of use so that's where I'm at right now [Music] I'm T um similarly to what you mentioned as I was reviewing this at home I kept on looking at ways to amarate some of the what's in this document because um Ju Just because I'm sensitive to the fact that this is a residence and it's impacting everybody that resides around that property so I was looking at ways to ameliorate that that impact and uh and I and I I do understand that the parking is an exercise but you can't deny the fact that the potential exists for that to be there in the future which I think would be um detrimental to the residential character the other aspect that uh I guess really got my attention is the gentleman back there that started talking about the different zoning requirements and how this meets or does not meet the zoning requirements and um that caught my attention because I think there is some significant ambiguity that resides there so I think we need to we need to vest you know we need to make sure that we we're within that those requirements so I guess I'm between denying it and and looking for further uh further additions to this document that would provide the neighbors more control and if in fact this does move to something that uh is just not residential reading it at home I was under the impression allly in the house minimal cars more like a the club more like a yoga I don't think that would be very disruptive listening to the neighbors seeing the parking lot I think the parking lot's nonstarter I don't think a 20 car parking lot gravel belongs in the front yard of anybody's house in a residential neighborhood I also listening to some of the comments and the size of the center and the maybe it's a fact I'm not sure the possibility that it could accommodate up to 100 people and the potential for growing your your community of worshippers but you can decide every three years you all okay hold on sorry yeah I I don't think growing it in this area would be a good use of the residential neighborhood I think keeping it small like a book club parking in the driveway having it inside very little impact to the neighbor you know very less impact than a lot of things that go on in neighborhoods we have Big Lots in corkin too so Oakdale isn't a gravel road it it can accommodate traffic but I I certainly don't agree with growing the business there putting a parking lot in and I and you know that made not suit your ultimate use either if the building was made to accommodate the larger Gathering the larger way of worship thank you could you clarify staff for us all that conditional home occupation licens the iups for that are specific to the actual home occupation um that is taking place right um each is an individual application I guess that's what I'm getting at right so it takes a look at what the home occupation uh being requested is and then what it is the applicant is requesting and formulates whether or not it would uh be permissible correct so there's there's standards outlined and code but yeah the basically an iup for condition it's not like there's a specific list of businesses that are per permissible it's if these standards are met it's a requires just a registration and that's an allowable home occupation and then we have the administrative permit uh process which is what the previous business went through and so if these standards are met then it goes through an administrative permit process um and so those are you know five to 10 trips uh I'm sorry 10 trips a day so five cars going to the site T from the site a day and a couple other standards and then anything that doesn't meet those standards from those categories goes into the conditional home occupation license and so it is very tailored it's non-transferable um and it is something that's there there's ability to ongoing evaluate how it fits within the neighborhood okay so I guess at this point in time like uh having heard where everybody initially stands I would be up for setting like a trip limit right which would help to control size um in terms of right and then then either when when number of trips exceeds that or um or the three years is uh threee points is up for growth it can be determined whether or not this is uh still a home occupation um who is counting the trips yeah I know but it's also a part of I mean right now the neighborhood is I I um I understand but I'm am trying to find a way if if trip number of trips is not something that you would be in favor of do you have a different kind of proposal or are you just unwilling to consider a middle ground at this point because you feel like it's not working well my I guess my position is that the applicant needs to follow city code and the code and the application in front of this commission does not meet city code therefore I'm going to recommend denial but the part of the code it's not meeting specifically for you is that it is not my job to help the applicant with his application help me understand that's what I'm asking uh because the part that I recall you discussing was the changing the uh disturbance to the neighborhood around it right okay and so that's IDE that's solely the basis for which you feel like this is not uh well that basis is based on city code 10301 100 which requires us to consider the impact on neighboring properties we've heard from the neighboring properties and I think that we have a record that supports the recommendation of denial may I ask a few more questions to staff is there a particular reason why signage is not addressed or restriction on signage there would be no signage there would be no signage that's assumed okay is there ever any opportunity or flexibility in time binding an iup and I know every three years we check it for compliance but so uh so staff would respond on a complaint basis uh I I believe we would be within our rights to have a a review period separate from that I think Cod says every three years but I I think it would be permissible for us to have a special condition that it be reviewed at a one-year marker to confirm compliance throughout the year and throughout the year uh if they wanted to have a quick or a check in sooner uh I'd want a double check with the city attorney but I think that would be something that could be added to the resolution and here's why my head went that way in the spirit of trying to accommodate all parties and figure out what works and based on the code of disturbing of not disturbing the neighborhood you know if somehow we found the right controls for this to make the impact minimal and is there an opportunity to pause and collect feedback from the community um or any type of opportunity to receive maybe that's okay shaking head now uh commissioner Lynn tonight you would want to make a recommendation one way or the other I wouldn't want to pause mid meeting uh the 60-day time rule uh they do have a complete application um so I would and I meant after the iup went into effect after a certain amount of time it stops we then revisit but never mind oh okay U just to clarify we I think that potentially we could revisit the standards to make sure they're working and readjust based on findings absolutely um I don't think we would be I think it would be harder to allow it and then completely stop the use while we're reevaluating those standards so I would say if if the standards are you know only 15 people per class no more than 10 vehicles on the site that's all that's allowed once a week um and something like that and then have it reviewed in a year to confirm compliance and to confirm that the impact of the neighborhood I think that would be potentially something just to does that answer your question a bit better yes okay I have two more and then I promise I'll be quiet um is there any particular requirement as to the percentage of time a resident would need to be in the home to have this to be considered a permanent to be like you know like when you have multiple State residences it's like you have be a homesteaded property it should be their primary place of residence so that would be my understanding is that it is a homestead of property and it is his primary place of residence I don't know how much time he's living in Maple girl that would be but that is a standard we could make make sure it's clear that majority of the time he needs to be living here even if he has other residences throughout the Twin Cities based on the services he provides I think that could be something added to the resolution the applicant agrees to as well but who is responsible for knocking on the door and seeing if living there that day needs to be a homestead of property that's as far as I can really take it needs to be a homestead of property and then I think similar to like how there's laws on like where you can file your taxes based on where you say it's in good faith so at a certain point in time we can set the standards but then we have to say I'm not gonna you know if you're filing your income taxes saying you live in South Dakota nobody's checking to make sure you're there six months plus one day every year you know what I mean last question um the language around flexibility of similar organizations I worry about that in that it could provide more opportunity to use this Beyond its expanded intention that's why I was very specific about changing the wording to once a week classes and making sure that the classes appli to all M meetings and gatherings I think it actually limits it further because it you can't have a class for uh the kalling center on a Sunday and then have another class for a different Foundation another day if he has a foundation meeting on Sunday then that's that's it for the week so it would just to make it clear that um any any organizational meeting or gathering that he's assoc with an organization he's associated with would be under the scope of the iup so I actually think that it does more to protect to that concern than it did in the previous draft understood thank you for explaining that I think again back to one of the original points I made the nature of the community center being a resource particularly maybe at any point in time for people to visit I think is makes this a challenging case um so I've have some I think one of the things that I heard of a big concern going forward with it as it is written is the larger Gatherings up to five times a year that that would be considered excessive I think in a residential neighborhood if you had a neighbor that had a big party with you know 50 guests you know once a year or once every well I guess five times a year that that to me would be considered excessive and I think most neighbors would consider that excessive um even if you have a neighbor that has a big party once a year that neighbor usually go ahead talk to the other neighbors make sure they're okay with it make sure the neighborhood's cleaned up afterwards make sure everybody's invited in the neighborhood I mean reach out to the neighbors and make sure they're okay with it before each Gathering but five times a year is I I would think a lot of people would have a problem with that in in a neighborhood setting to add on to that I think particularly if we didn't have a community resource host an event where we have if it's in the summer we have a we do have a rentable space and opportunities to host elsewhere as well well with that I'd like to make a motion to recommend denial of this application can I get a second I second all in favor say I I all opposed I or nay nay I never know am I agreeing to oppose or am I disagreeing to oppose it's that double negative I know just real quick there's a lot of folks Mr chair if I make want to know when this is going to come in front of the council that's a good question Natalie March 28th March March 28th yes okay March 28th thank you thank you for coming out today thank you for your time thank you thank you for your time these than so much refresh yes thank you recing I I believe so you w yeah plus the busy season here is always the busy season out no not not right now do I have to really okay I'd like to open the public hearing for agenda item 7B this is an intricate mult step application for a comprehensive plan Amendment rezoning preliminary plat and a few variances the city file number is 23-33 Natalie you're you said you said you wanted to open the the public for or public hearing and so she was like ready to pounce and be like no iy I'm the rookie you only been sitting ear Years thank you Mr chair thank you so our second item tonight is um the applican is Woodland Hills the cork Incorporated it is for a subdivision at the northeast corner of County Road 116 and Hackamore Road it uh contains a 60 single family residential lots one Community recreational lot and five out Lots um and so yeah there are several components to the application the first component is that comprehensive plan Amendment currently the land use for this site is guided low density residential which has a density requirement of three to five units per acre the proposed predevelopment density of this project came in at two units per acre uh so the proposed comprehensive plan Amendment would establish a new land use designation currently titled very low density residential and allow development at a density of two to three units per acre and it would reu this project site to the new land use designation and this would still allow for the city to meet its overall requirement of three units per acre the math was provided by the staff report and staff finds the comprehensive plan amendment makes sense as it would allow for reasonable development at the site catered to supply and demand for development with a variety of lot sizes and has Merit beyond the interest of the proponent of the request as we are aware of at least one uh incoming application that's facing a similar issue while trying to meet the stand or meet the platting requirements with a 65 foot lot width or around that size um es especially with things like our Shoreland overlay District it makes things very complicated to hit that three to five sometimes uh so it does seem to have some Merit Beyond just this application the second component are two zoning ordinance amendments uh a map Amendment to rezone the site from residential single family two to residential single family 3 this would allow for a smaller lot size as low as 7500 Square fet in a smaller lot WID of 65 foot wide and then to do this we also need to do a text Amendment because right now the intent of the rsf3 district uh makes it clear that uh it's specifically for land guided as low density so we need to clarify that or very low density um and then we also are taking out the specific dens Target within the uh ordinance language and just broadening it up to whatever land designation comprehens needs to be consistent with our comprehensive plan so staff finding staff finds that there are findings of fact to support both zoning ordinance amendments assuming that comprehensive plan amendment is made is what um approved approved so this is uh the site plan it's a little cut up on the top on your screen I apologize uh but so it's 60 Lots we have the main access point coming off of Hackamore road to the to and then we have three uh oh my goodness this is the wrong s plan I apologize I don't I sorry and we made them change it too so it's my fault um so actually let me see if I can find a different site plan that has different correct uh as the correct s plan um so the do you need a five minute um should not take me five minutes I have it up but is the one contain the pack at the correct one it should have on the left side two where the two c saacks were on the left side it should be one street now no no then we don't have the proper one either yeah I don't think we he's prepared yeah I don't know I just [Music] yep it is in our packet folks it's in the one that contains the yellow with the red so look at the big one and then go to page oh there's no page number listed on this one but if you shoot past all the photographs and look at the first map that is the proper site plan okay so I didn't completely fail just a little all right so I apologize thank you for your patience let me get the screen up so this is the site plan um we in our Southeast District called facts are not are highly discouraged in the favor of providing connectivity wherever possible so this calleda here in the uh Northeast portion of the site makes sense due to the fact that there's already an existing neighborhood and then there's features such as Wetlands that really prevent a connection same with the southeast P stack however there were two P stack as previously shown on the screen and staff pushed for that connectivity that was engineering and Public Safety recommended uh to be able to have that connectivity to comply with their Southeast District as well as allow for more efficient Public Safety Services um as well as infrastructure anding things like that so uh the applicant worked with the staff to change their plan and he didn't lose any Lots so that was exciting for all of us um and that is the plan that's currently proposed to have that through Street uh and then in addition to the 60 Lots we have the amenity lot located here on the C stack in the Southeast portion of the site that contains right currently is proposed for pool and a seasonal pool house and we will talk about that further let me go back to my so thank you for your patience so the 60 so for the preliminary plat they going have 60 residential lots 42 lots are proposed to have a lot with of greater than 75 ft 18 Lots would have a lot between 65 lot withd of 65 to 75 ft so even though they're requesting to have that minimum lot size changed actually very few of the lots are going to be at 65 uh but the minimum lot width in rsf2 is 80 ft so that they do need that flexibility they that change in the district to be able to accommodate the 60 Lots uh they are request typically for a side setback we require a 10 foot setback on the living side five foot setback on the garage side with a minimum building separation of at least 15 ft between detached homes uh the is requesting a variant needed for seven uh 7 and2 foot s setback and we'll talk about that further um going back to the amenity lot uh staff including Public Safety continue to be concerned that there is no on-site parking proposed for the lot um it is located in that far Southeast corner at the end of a cult stag it's not a very central location um and no parking is allowed in called Stacks so some on street parking would be on the north side of the street leading to the Colac um and but staff is recommending based on looking at the American Planning Association parking standards uh and previous approvals granted to for similar use in renia at least three parking spaces on site one of which would be a dedicated handicap space so uh the one of the there are several components evaluated in the staff report uh one of the areas where some adjustments need to be made is regards to landscaping and wetlands uh the Wetland buffers in The Proposal needs to be corrected sever Wetland buffers currently drop below our required minimum buffer width so that's something that need to be adjusted and could impact a couple of lots U it would be something we need to continue to work through with the applicant uh additional Landscaping is needed on the amenity lot based on the non-residential you the non single family home use of the lot um and then enhanced Landscaping along County Road 116 there's an area where it either needs to be extended or lot 7 needs to have a setback of 100 feet uh applied to the entire lot and then for the most part the plan shown does meet the bucker yard requirements though some plantings needed to be added along the north project boundary I think they just used the wrong formula and then how the applicant is concerned with the long-term viability of the Landscaping plan as it's proposed and so that is again one of the variance requests that we will talk about so again the first set back variance is for the I'm sorry this first variance is for the stepback of s and a half fet uh the applicant provided a one of the best detailed narrative I've seen for a variance as to why the request meets the Practical difficulty standard outlined in city code staff believes that the requested set back is a distinction without much of a difference since a 15t building separation will be maintained uh it does seem to make practical sense that a consistent size effect be applied to avoid coordination concerns especially on the city Staffing level with multiple Builders and Property Owners looking to create custom homes um staff would prefer that it gets handled as a zoning ordinance Amendment but the applicants receive direction from Council to move forward with a variance application at the concept level the applicant offers a 25 foot front setback as a way to mitigate the impact of granting flexibility in the side setback and I did confirm each and every lot is currently shown at a 25t setback where 20 ft is currently required by the district uh the second variant is from the garage maximum percentage standard so in this district there are architectural standards that need to be met and the applicant um and that includes I'm sorry the fact that on the ground floor elevation the garage is not supposed to exceed 55% um and that's not including the second level and that historically has been a problem for three car garages and the African anticipates that most these homes will be three if not four car garages uh so again the AF provided a very detailed narrative and then staff finds that it may be reasonable to Grant the variance considering it has been a common PUD flexibility particularly for three car garages death prefers the households have the ability to park their vehicles comfortably without relying on street parking particularly since city ordinance prevents street parking overnight in the winter the applicant offers a requirement that a second offers to add a requirement that a second story be required and a 30 foot front set back as a way to offset the impacts of granting this variance uh staff agrees that the it would make sense to have that Second Story requirement um but does does not think a 30 foot front set back is necessary um so that's definitely a discussion for the Planning Commission finally the third variance is for the for the buffer yard flexibility um staff remains concerned that granting the variance to the standard will lead to several more request as it won't be a unique uh complaint among applicants that there are concerns regarding the number of trees and best management practices there are multiple options provided to meet the buffer yard requirements and if the commission and Council agree that tree survey andite photos showing an existing buer submitted by the applicant um it would be better for the city to make a finding that these areas are exempt from the ordinance due to an existing withed area then it would be to open the door to VAR um or and then I think in my staff report I said if a variance is desired for this then I do think a zoning ORD Amendment long term would be an appropriate uh change if that's desirable uh so at this time so that is a brief overview there it was a 25 page report so there was more to it those were the main concerns opening the at this time staff recommends opening the public hearing to take testimony and recommends approval of a comprehensive plan Amendment zoning ordinance amendments uh the resolution supporting the zoning ordinance amendments the preliminary plat and then the variance resolution in Fr you tonight approves the side setback and garage maximum variances but denies the buffer yard experience great thank you Natalie um Natalie I don't need any motions to open the public hearing correct correct okay and uh do you have any cards I do not have any cards Mr I assume you folks are the applicants or yes okay would you like to step on up and please state your name who you represent and I I'm okay on your address thank you chair members of the commission staff and couple council members that are here my name is Steve Jet and I represent the developer uh which is Woodland Hills of corkin a I'm going to spend a couple minutes talking about some of the things that Natalie did some of the things I agree with some of the things I want you at least to consider and then certainly when I'm done let the rest of the public talk and then I'll answer question you have questions of me um start with we're excited about the site the site is a nice site probably one of the most challenging sites I've ever seen because of the number of what LS on the site and to actually get a density of any sort is almost impossible because of the wetlands with that said the comp plan amendment allows us to do some of the the residential developing that we like to do um so we certainly support staff's recommendation on the comp plan resoning would follow that as well um and example of a not a similar project but similar lot siiz project um if you go to Plymouth holidale is currently being developed I don't know if you had the opportunity to drive through it some of them are largely lot some of them are 90s 95s but if you go to the Northwest part of that site there most of those houses are 65s concern of one of the residents is that the houses that are showing on that was showing wouldn't fit on 65t wide Lots those houses with three car garages have pads around 49 ft wide so they would fit on 50 foot wide pads so the the houses that are showing at 4 to 5,000 square ft will fit on a 65t wide but then there are more 75s 65s out there talking about the preliminary plaid Natalie is it possible to pull up the right one all right one second I got your back now no that well I'm gonna explain a mistake I made to here in a minute so it's it's it's it is also on page one of our development narrative too I found so so one thing I ask you I realize it's not necessarily in your perview but there's discussion very briefly about W in the southern part of the property anything you can do to help us frankly we'd like to fill it and mitigate for it because we don't feel it's providing any natural benefit to the site plus we'll be ponding in that location we have to provide ponding for Hackamore so we really need that Wetland to be or allow us to fill it and to mitigate it elsewhere those Wetlands were all preserving so we're really only asking for three small Wetlands to be filled two of them really have no issues one little one here and one up there that's the one intention I just bring it up as far as a landscaping plan Wetland buffer yeah we have to amend the Wetland buffer to make sure meet you no issues about that and I don't think there's a lot of spaces there's a few tens that we have to go to 15s or 20s I get it we we need to do that uh B do you have the landscape plan by chance I um go through the landscape plan a little bit um if you on the West Side along 116 the staff report mentions lot seven that whether or not the 100 foot setb back that what I did is I measured lot seven I measured where the pad was for the house and that it's over 100 fet so my stupidity I go it's going to be 100 ft what I wasn't thinking about is in the future somebody wants to add a deck or 36 and porch so an updated landscape plan we will bring 116 Buck of land escaping down so includ slot 7 to to meet the city's ordinance i i i s I opened it it's just not loing that actually it wasn't the landscape plan but it I actually landscape plan will be helpful cou the other you can still um staff report mentions the need to make sure we round out yes we update the landscape planing along 116 absolutely round up the way buffer landscaping for wetland is three and five whether or not we need buffer along those um both three and five have existing trees within those Wetlands plus there is some substantial distance I frankly don't even know see these houses from 116 in the summertime with Landscaping with the trees that are already in those puffers so my contention is the landscape plan does not show new trees there I think that's appropriate given size of the wetlands the distances from the property lines the existing trees there we go so you see there's no there's no buffer there and no buffer there uh update detail the a now this is where we've got the buffer Landscaping that Shan meets the Cod if you look right here that is I think where you Natalie talked about the number of trees and then if you count the trees that are in there these trees are less than that what happened was when we this may surprise you this isn't the first gr condition of this the land plan we gone through different changes with staff originally there was no RightWay up here and there was we had buffer Landscaping here that buff Landscaping plus that buff Landscaping equal that so what we put in the right of way the number of trees dropped and that wasn't change so the truth is I think numbers in detail a are right we just have to update what it says there either way assuming we don't get a variance for it what show on and we'll meet the ordinance speaking of that Lot 19 Lot 19 is this lot here I guess I wasn't under the understanding or maybe I didn't understand that if we gave the city the right of way that we also had to buffer to the same level to the north property lot I mean if we do we could squeeze it in the sidey of that lot but I still don't know I don't know if it's clear enough in the ordinance for me to understand that it's really needed there but we'll get to the variant in a minute um amenity lot down Sol Corner we' got amenity lot once again I didn't completely understand the city's ordinance on how much Landscaping we would have to add more Landscaping understood uh we'll meet the ordinance shrubs won't be a problem because we always put provide shrubs around all of our amenity lots that we build um what I would say is that the concern we've got the amenity lot and the condition is we don't believe there is a need for three parking St street parking stalls you know the staff report talks about it you know Public Safety department talks about the need but we have strict covenants that we put in place that say people can't park by the amenity lot can't park at The Amity lot they do have to walk and it it's it's it's enforced so we don't think that three parking a three parking stalls are necessary so I hope when you get into this that conversation happens the variance I think the variance one with the seven and a half and seven and a half versus 5 and 10 and Natalie presented it appropriately it's the same 15 ft 7 and A2 and 7 and a half gives the builders a little more flexibility when they put a house in garage right garage left as opposed to everything happen to be all on the same side if you do a five and a 10 garage is always on the let's say the right side or the left side you don't get variations can't promise you will anyway but 7 and A2 and 7 and A2 provide more flexibility in the future for Builders and and future homeowners to put the garage on either side help can I ask you a question yeah how is this a hardship granted it it's it's a hardship I tried to explain it in the in the narrative it's a hardship because it reduces the flexibility that future Builders and homeowners have in place in the house I get it I I I get it but to me seven and a half and seven and a half is becoming the standard in other communities and I think even at the council when through the concept not to speak for them but they somewhat agreed with the the idea that maybe we go through a variance at this point but the ordinance gets changed I get I get you my only concern is that city code states that a hardship cannot be caused by the developer or the landowner so how is this a hardship I can make something up I believe the hardship is got a lot of wetlands in here okay and the flexibility and the need of the I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt that's F that's fine I I appreciate the questions absolutely variance two to the 55 um or 55% ground elevation um we just think we can provide a better quality house if you allow us to have larger garages with the caveat that we have two stories above it so from the streetcape there still appears to be a large amount of house versus Gage I think the ordinance probably was put into place many years ago to prevent the now houses these aren't anywhere close to that type of a house these are twostory large homes um three and four car garages and again if you drove through Hollydale yet you can see the garages but the reality is they don't dominate the front of these houses so would you agree with me that instead of a variance perhaps a um zoning ordinance Amendment would better address this I think both the first variants and the second one absolutely absolutely but reality is because we're in the middle of an application to get the application moving fair enough but absolutely I think I don't disagree with that so variance three this is the the buffer Landscaping so what we're asking for in short is no changes along here we're we're okay with everything here it really is up here along the north property line and the East property line there's a difference between the North and the East property lines there is a large amount of existing trees just off the property on the North property line on the East property line there's a larger number of trees off the property but there's also trees along the property line on this property side that will be saved so we're asking for and the reason that's an issue up on the North End is the concern that if you put more trees up there or a lot more trees that the competition of the trees and the best management practices how you grow quality trees will be affected because you'll have too many trees fighting for the for the safe sunlight if you will so our concern is not putting Landscaping in we put Landscaping in all of our developments Landscaping does help us it sells product and everything Our concern is it too much will it actually survive and at the end of the day will we all be happy 5 10 years from now with the quality of the trees that are going up so what we're asking here is not to get rid of it all but is there a possibility to reduce some of the numbers up there on the east side and are you asking for a reduction in the numbers because you're being told by an expert that those plantings will die or that trees will die I thought I saw something about someone telling me our landscape architect um yeah there's a caveat on the Landscaping plan no to the contractor these buffer quantities are required by city ordinance and it should be noted they are not recommended by the landscape architect the quantity and spacing may be in complex with best manit practices so our landscape architectur has come out and said that to us and you put it on the plan because she wanted to make sure people are aware that it wasn't her that put it into place sure the north right on the east side it's a little bit different B till B is what we proposed to landscape and again we showing it at what the code requirement north of there and a little bit south of there we don't show anything because we do feel there's some large trees that we are preserving on the site that meet the ordinance as far as an Exempted exemption again we think that there's probably too many trees in there and BB and if we could get some reduction in that that would be helpful for the long-term health of those trees have you identified for staff which trees would stay and which would go yeah good questions um the answer is yes to a limit and I say that because we measure trees so they so veryable out in trees and measures any tree over 8 in in diameter Cal per inch there are probably another 25 to 30 between 4 in and 8 in that are in there that are saved that aren't surveyed it's not the standard practice to call and Survey those um you kind of can see it but then there's also a lot of lower thre that are growing up that are CA that in the summertime will create a buff okay so yes but not every 2in tree b or is survey um so that's what we're asking for in the variance for the Landscaping far as the full resolutions again the comp plan resolution we support the resoning we support understand the preliminary plat uh the variance request we support to the seven and a half the 55s and and ask for some discussion and flexibility on the landscape you meet the buffer staff will certainly is going to continue to work with your engineering staff and the planning staff and the requirements that they put in there um the various letters and hopefully we'll come forward through this process with a project that meets your expectations as well as our expectations great thank you can I ask are we able to ask you qu further questions sure yeah okay I was gonna ask you who is your Target customer consumer of these products homes most like they're going to be second third time buyers families I if the example is our holidale community a lot of families um second third time surprisingly there's a lot of families with Elementary age kids moving in there but if you go to the second third time you're looking at high school as well um don't like pin pointing an exact price range but those in alale same school district I don't know if we've gotten too many less than a million dollars and that's why I questioned where people and families could afford them but that's not for me to decide um okay thank you and um ideally you know the the multiple Builders um and attracting multiple Builders I think is great um how many Builders ideally would be the goal to have so right now that hasn't been decid they honest there could be one Builder but they have such a variety could be two builders in the in the narrative there's two different Builders plans showing um generally you get more than that and there's not enough for a builder to truly Market a project it's only 60 Lots so we can't have five six seven builders in there because the builders Can't Get Enough traction so chances are it's probably going to be one or two builders solid I would like to end the public we haven't actually opened the public forum yet this is just the applicant giving his Nar like giving his talk so if members of there's nothing for me to close no not yet but we need to begin don't go away I have left okay with that I'd like to open the public hearing and uh anyone here have any comments yes all right and please just state your name and your address if you're a resident sir my name is Fred vanus and I live at 6215 half circle which would be minute okay that so you said he wants to go from a two hey hey folks folks I can I can only listen to One thanks I'm Sor me if he does that you could put multiple home I think it states in the code that they can have single family family homes and multiple family homes if you go to uh a three are you talking about density yeah okay okay so he gets free builders let's say and they buy those free Lots four lots and this guy says well I'm going to put bus in can you do that say multiple we will note the question in one's public forum is Clos then we'll give staff a chance to address any questions that came up and there seems to be a lot of variances you know I mean we need a variance for this we need a variance for that the width if you want to see what a 65 foot lot looks like go to your dining to the terter section see their houses they all end up to be 51 52 53 ft they need a variance because they got to have three car garages they got to have the whole office space they gotta have that whole porch so I'm not sure about all the variances my next question is if you put he's going to put his swimming pool right next to my laot right so you're going to walk down this hill down this road down that Hall the sack to get to that pool if you drive down to the the site no no mother is going to take their five six year old kid from up here and walk down to there she's going to drive them so where are they going to park they're either going to park in this cuac or they're going to park in this CAC and walk the new path to get to the pool what time does the pool open and what time does it close you know am I going to have noise am I going to have things like that um he mentioned the Wetland I'm not an expert about Wetlands but you guys just redid hackmore Road and I believe you you check with the contractor they got drain it going down to where he wants to fill in your weing I'm not sure you'd have check with the contractor and the buffer zone you're adding going to add water to this is all the drainage from the road project all goes into that P so I don't know if they checked with the the city the city engineers and the contractor on the road because we're getting water from D across the street it's underneath the street through this Culver the Culvert ends about it right here and goes into that pond I know that pond then brins back to Plymouth on hack more and 101 that's where that is but if he's going to build these 50 foot houses on the 65 foot Lots they're going to be right next to each other they're not building small houses they're building big houses you think they should have a big lot I mean 80 feet isn't much I know he needs want us to make money I I realize it and I know when they sold the property that they were going to houses there I knew that but they were going to be single family 80 foot loss now we're asking for baranes and a lot of variances it's just not one or two every time they build a house they're going to have to have a variance and the thing that thing that I read on the website was from it goes from mult the single family twos to threes it says multiple family hous so that's what concerns me all right and if he's going to have three contractors in there and they're going to buy so many Lots all right because of like he's building house yeah and understood so just for the sake of time yeah I'll give you 15 more seconds okay but and like I said you tell me how you're going to walk from here to there probably with my feet yeah I don't know if mom's gonna do that well then Mom Mom Mom has that prerogative okay so all right thank you I got nothing I don't okay fair enough please state your name and your address good evening yes Jonathan schmidth uh 6340 County Road 116 so we have I don't want to compete with this gentleman here but I might have the most bested interest to be able to bring up the map again I have the one house in that top corner lot surrounded fully surrounded almost by this development um so we uh here we are so uh we moved here about two years ago actually bought it from my father-in-law who lived there for 30 plus years owns Hanah Lumber um we wanted the land we wanted the space for our kids two twin daughters um and so much so that I love nature so much that I joined the Parkson parks and trails commission here last November um just because I loal city um and I can understand that um there's probably not much we can do about it going in in general but I think we'll probably become good friends in Partnership because I've got a lot of questions so I think before I get into the questions I need to make sure this is the appropriate time to actually ask some of the questions but I do have about 20 questions and yep now would not be that's not going to work so what would you recommend is the best way to yeah well if you if you have 20 questions if you want to prioritize one or two and we'll do our best but really it's not for us to answer questions and we typically refer questions to staff so here is what I would prefer I would prefer that you submit your 20 Questions uh to the city and a wait a response and I will ask staff to make sure that your questions and the answers are attached uh to the application that gets submitted to the city council is that fair yeah that's fair and so the city council not to speed here or any part of the development team Natalie how would you prefer that uh we just to clarify so what are the what are um I think sending them to staff is fair and you could even send it to C you could copy Steve certainly um and then I would say if you have like concerns that like a few questions now could certainly be answered we typically don't have a back and forth I do try after that public hearings closed I do try to address questions that I have immediate responses to so we definitely don't want to turn down your questions but if it is a long list it might be something better that we have time to compile that information for you absolutely so absolutely so um you know I just give this and then this will at least give you guys an idea of kind of where my mind is at on some of the questions this like I said we're not going through but I just just want to share these with you get as many fine nonetheless I think you know I'm also representing the neighbor to the north there he couldn't be here tonight um I'd say one of the biggest concerns that we have here is really the the drain so we're very appreciative that we're keeping this wet land it's actually absolutely beautiful and gorgeous and and and keep that to wonder T um back behind here though and you'll see it on the very front of that hacket that I gave you back behind here it's actually about a 40ft drop you can see there's a wet land under here and it's it comes down and then it comes way up as as it comes back to this so really currently a lot of that a lot lot of the water drains right into there up through here and then on to the the neighbor's property so what I guess my biggest concern is well for one all the vegetation that is here that's unfortunate that would be gone so I mean obviously there's any way to move these further out and and preserve some of the the natural um you know the natural barrier there I guess would be appreciated but it's not looking like here but really the concern is when this where will this water go um that typically drains up to that side that's that's clear there but then what we north of here and off my property onto this you know how are we so if you do look on page like I said this will just be the main concern that I have today if you look on page two there you can see a side picture I'm standing about right here looking this way you can see how much it comes down from my property up there on the top left and then you know goes back up so and then the last the other picture there on page two is I'm standing here at the bottom facing this way up so it's it's really it's a hill so what I'm curious about is are they are they filling all of this in to be level you know is this a this a level plane right here everything gets filled in and now our runoff is to go I guess where you know all their backyards or or how does that work yeah no no no no no no your questions are for us not for the applicant okay so if you have that question again feel free to submit it to staff and the staff I know will get back to you in a timely manner and I think I heard you say are you on the par parks and trails or Y and do you anticipate hearing uh input about this property absolutely yeah well if I were you I I would recuse myself because I think you have a conflict of interest okay would it be for this one topic Mr chair is that the planning I'm sorry the parks and trails commission perview is specifically to the park dedication uh so he he they already did make that recommendation because was a complex only because I heard the gentleman say and we're gonna have a lot of questions for you and I'm just concerned about that sure no I I I I totally he but I I I think the the parks and trails commission their purview is very limited in scope and and so I don't think that was a complex good to check them to but but yeah thank you so um so really I I think that's uh one of the biggest thing it's just and just the preservation of some of those really um Majestic massive trees that are on the whole L not just my space there's two huge ones here that you see on the backside there nice Falcon family those types of things we appreciate your comments we've gone well over the time I I do appreciate your comments I don't I'm not trying to give you the bunge rush but it is getting late okay all right thanks thank you so with that can I uh get a motion to close the public hearing I'll make that motion I'll second it all in favor say I I I'll opposed Mr chair could I speak to the first element's question about two okay about the two family lots like two family for two family homes okay so just to clarify the zoning District does allow for two family homes that is accurate um so if you look on the screen here two family homes have a minimum lot width requirement of 100 feet none of these Lots I think maybe one lot had an 100 foot lot width so they would require we platting as a single lot to do a two family home or for most these lot um a the um and I don't even I I have to look I there might not have been a 100 foot lot with I'm up to one is what I can recall maybe having a 100 foot lot with um and then there is an HOA that the applicant is proposing so as currently proposed this is a single family development that would be under HOA Covenant I I think that that's uh the African would have to speak to it but I I think two family homes would be fairly big departure from single family but he can speak I think I'm all on board I don't know do you guys need the applicant to speak to to that point or can we just keep moving forward that's my question I'm sold no two family homes multi family you can you can sit down for a second you know I guess what I'd like to do you know this is a pretty large application and what we've done in the past as you know we we've broken down the application into the key requests and in this case I think the key requests are the comp plan Amendment zoning to rsf3 the preliminary plat and then finally the variances am I correct Natalie okay so what I would like to do is I I'd like to break the application down into those four separate asks and that we we focus on on each one instead of just going all over and trying to get our arms around it so um I would suggest that we start with the comp plan Amendment does who would like to start or does anyone have comments about the comp plan amendment I approve it I approve too oh so you I don't need have any okay all right so no discussion correct I'm in favor do I understand that that allows for Less density per acre as long as you meet the density required within the muso overall this would yes so I guess I guess my only comment is that I think we've had a couple of amendments to our comp plan recently and uh a plan is not really a plan if we just kind of do what we want you know and you know any which way uh but here I do agree with staff and I am in favor of the amendment I think that it will provide diversity and housing options across Corran uh there's no question that corkran is rapidly expanding additionally we're not like older cities like St Paul and still water uh that have housing and neighborhoods that have been built across time So to that end I think it is a good thing that this comp plan Amendment uh will ensure that our growth has uh options which is what I think this is offering the city has options available for home buyers and uh developers um would you like us to make motions and vote on each of the four so with that I'll make a motion to approve the comp plan Amendment can I get a second I'll second all in favor say I I all opposed okay anyone want to discuss the zoning to rsf3 isn't it zoning okay perhaps there needs to be a clarification is it rezoning to rsf2 or rsf3 it's resoning to rsf3 currently it's zoned rsf2 and then it's all also adjusting some of the verbi in ARP 3 to to account for the to accommodate the very low density yes I would love to kick off um and I'm I'm super glad to see that we have multiple members of council here tonight as well to to listen nope I'm just saying I'm glad you're here because um I think you know there's just been a lot of really important discussions happening with the city now and I think that if I think back to particularly maybe Jay or Mr Tobin's comment when we uh when it was approved of the Hope Community Church development you know providing opportunity for higher density in certain areas of the city will allow for lower density in others um also the the burden of proof or sorry hard ship required to particularly make an adjustment to our city plan needs to be demonstrated and other than the effectiveness to add lots and profitability and feasibility of more lots to um this development I don't see particularly hardship evidence um to justify making this change to our overall City Direction and strategy I think we're in a really important time where we're setting precedence we're setting our strategy as a city we're setting the tone for how we are going to be adjusting and this is not a PUD so we have an opportunity to think really hard about this and why we would do this and for those reasons I particularly would like to hear um if anybody is for this and maybe I can understand that a bit more because right now my stance would be that I don't see why particularly other than for the developers interest we would move to to uh three I believe it's so that we can meet an overall density of the city so it is not toor to the developer it is deater to the fact that we are being held to a requirement regarding density and so in order to do that on this particular lot because we look at it as a development by development basis is how that calculation is is made so in order to meet that at this particular development it needs to be rezoned you can correct me if I'm wrong I don't think that's true so just to clarify there isn't a hardship standard for rezoning that is for variances your correct there is a PR difficulty standards it's a little different than hardship it used to be hardship legislation was changed to change the threshold to be practical difficulties and complying with the ordinance um so the zoning ordinance amendment to rsa3 uh I I I do agree to be able to right now the pre density is coming back at two units an acre granted that could go up slightly but I to a drastic change to that is not anticipated um and to move to a minimum 80 foot lot withth requirement we're talking about even lower than two units an acre uh so I think to be able to Contin to minimize deviation from our comp plan Amendment while still allowing for uh lower density to be had in the city within the Musa area uh I think rsf3 and it does say in the purpose of rsf3 it is intended to be the primary district for new development new single family home development within the city uh so or I'm sorry within the Musa so it um I think it would be very difficult for them to meet density requirements with that 80 foot lot requirement and the larger lot size requirement with rsf2 are we saying the overall density requirement of the city I'm saying right now the comp plan Amendment would allow for Den density at two to three units an acre and at rsf3 standards it's coming in at two units an acre so if we move to rsf2 standards it'll be even lower than that so it's both here and as City overall to to be able to make sure that we are not counting our eggs before they're hatched in terms of density being granted elsewhere um but allowing for some deviation in our plan now and then staff does want to take a closer look at all of this with our 2050 update but right now it's a very narrowed scope yeah because I was wondering you know the approval of Hope Community and these large Apartments like how is that changing our strategy and our plan as a city and if we're saying yes to every single opportunity to build smaller Lots like how are we looking at the overall calculation and how it's fluctuating in changing as we're making these decisions additional density is anticipated with hope very strongly anticipated again I want to be careful of counting eggs for the hatch we have not seen a final plat U I do hope that those some numbers will be available for 2050 update in terms of being able to count some of those final Flats towards our calculations um I think that we have enough reason to move forward with a proposal or two coming in at two to three units an acre but I do think need to be very mindful as to which projects get that change at this time again it's just a very narrow Scope when you start pulling it strings sometimes they more come so um I would say that it's there's there's re I think that the goal the goals that I keep hearing from our city council so we would like to allow for lower density development I think that does this um and I would say it's very telling that even with rsf3 standards is coming in at two units in acre I would also like to note that the location of this particular property being at the crossroads of two major roadways isn't necessarily the place uh I think it makes a nice transition from some of those what we I don't know what we were calling them a while ago but those established kind of rural neighborhoods um it it and what's across 116 from it which is like a significant number of of row homes right so it is in in terms of making a you know making sense transition I think it's a place to be if we're going to shoot for the stars and make some kind of on theine decision about where we're going to come in under to I don't know that this is the location to do that um uh in terms of the the clientele that would be buying homes like that or be affording you know do you know what I'm saying like you're at a busy intersection and so if you're going to make that argument for a really um a neighborhood with really really wide lots and all that sort of stuff is this location even to put those uh do you know what I'm saying okay thank you it's 9:30 so the language is not coming as eloquently but I'm just saying I think that where this is uh the transition and the type of neighborhoods that's already surrounded it makes sense to go to the rsf3 so I would be in support of um making that Amendment or that change well with the comprehensive plan amendment I do not have any issue with resoning to rsf3 especially since the minimums have been met or exceeded and with that I will make a motion to uh recommend uh resoning to rsf and I would second okay we have a second all those in favor say I I all opposed i n negative okay all right and then if we can move to the uh preliminary um any discussion on that piece the only uh question that I had is that here is a situation where we have a road on road and I know that that has come up before um there is the neighborhood um off of Bass Lake Road just past cook Lake Highlands where again we have a road on road where right so my and I guess I'm bringing it up in the preliminary plat just because that addresses kind of where the lots are I believe that for future residents it would be far more beneficial to be on the side of the road that it's planted right or the side of that cuac um rather than making the homes a but hamar you know what I mean and then pushing them so I think it makes sense I'm just wondering um if there is going to be any additional uh lands like what is it going to look like in that space between the road and the road because I think there's a walking trail am I correct right right up too he could answer yeah if you could I know we have those big boulders that's the neighborhood that I'm talking about just off the just past cork yeah um and that's kind of what Shields that road on road view Oh I thought Oh no you're right you're right you're right okay so we do show expensive l between that road and the trail in um not that it's a perfect example because they PL plant them towards the end of the year you go about a half a mile East on pamore 47 I've never been able to pronounce what they changed it to so I'm going to keep it at 47 we go about a half mile in there in clma they have got a fairly similar example in that case there's I think eight homes our escaping is more intensive than them but I also think at the end of the day it's it's a straight shot parallel 6 622 [Music] yes 6 second there um so they're parallel so I don't think there's a need to block headlights if you will the Landscaping will have a nice buffer but I also think if you saw that you looked at those pictures of the houses the front elevations of those houses are so nice that I think from Hackamore it would be a very very nice streets game okay so but we do show shrubs lower level plus a lot of everything okay and so that's what breaks that up that was just my my question regarding that and I don't think I have a lot of other questions and I'm just not sure where they fit in um it as we break it down this way and not questions but um we can get to that I guess whatever we do what we traffic study conducted or is that okay I didn't see any info about traffic study and infrastructure feasibility study uh was completed typically the engineering memo will touch on that um no let's see here but yeah the um that was where the emergency access was discussed in terms of um City wanted it evaluated whether it made sense to have a connection to 116 now uh but through working with henen County they are not allowing for that uh connection at this time they did allow for a public emergency access uh so that's shown on the west side of the project um right here but yeah I think there really are no improvements that are offside improvements that are required at this development because we're already updating heckamore Road as city um and then they don't have any direct access to kind time so that will fall on a development whenever the north is redeveloped the are used to the north are redeveloped I bring this up to note that the public comment that was sent via email Express concern around traffic in this area so I also didn't read that part so thank you uh Natalie uh you wrote that one of the two Wetlands would be removed has that been approved by the DNR uh so there's two small Wetlands that I believe are going to be a non-issue because they were fared Wetlands it's the one in the southwest yeah and then the Southwest one that is still that is part actually we're having a discussion with engineering inter Wetland specialist in the applicant tomorrow so I don't believe that has been approved that I think is what he was talking about in terms of any help the Planning Commission can provide but it's a little out of your purview because it is up to it is unfortunately sorry it's a question the one thing that I will point out uh that I don't it again I don't think it fits in this and it's actually not directed really for um the applicant at all I just wanted to highlight it that on page seven um of the staff report under um I don't even know what its original number is here if I flip back but it's basically D on page seven it indicates that the applicant indicated that the development will have a homeowners association which will be required by the city with the proposed Outlets outlasts excuse me and the reason that I want to bring that up is this has been a concern as we move forward trying to preserve um space Green Space is that it's actually requiring uh homeowners associations and so if someone wanted to live in corkran and not live in a homeowners association neighborhood they're significantly limited to where they can move and so I just want to note it because you guys are here that I think obviously the intent of it is wonderful I mean if we can preserve environmental but if it is requiring a homeowners association I would ask that that be something that's reconsidered um just because HOAs can be used as a factor for exclusion uh in terms of home buyers so I feel like it has been HooHa heavy so I just wanted to make that note not for you not that I want to change it for this particular neighborhood but I wanted highlight that yeah if I could comment I don't think we have the authority to make that recommendation well the only reason I'm bringing it up is that one of our the well you can you'll have better language around it I can already tell it because you've got it in your eyes but it's as we move forward we're trying to create um we're trying to tip the scales in terms of promoting and encouraging reservation of open space but when you have that open space that's not owned by individuals because you opt for smaller lot sizes and larger open areas it through our city code that is uh someone has to maintain those outlots or that open space and preservation area and by default then that becomes a homeowners association and so because that uh is something that originated through city code that's the only reason I'm highlighting it I'm not asking necessarily for an amendment but I'm just continuing to highlight the fact that something that is well- intended is perhaps having a um an unintended consequence a question is that something that would be addressed in the comp plan no so if I if I can Mr chair to be clear the require so basically the alternative would be for the applicant to draw the lot lines over uh completely over the wetlands so that is a that is an option it's not that the city is ultimately by to like because they're preserving these Wetland spaces they have to have an eoy it's because they're showing them in Outlaws uh but that's the best way to protect the city's interest is to have these HOA um otherwise uh without them having without Outlaw without an HOA the likelihood of a going tax forfeit tax forfeit is very high so that's what's triggering the HOA um hopefully some rest assured to you planning commissioner is uh that was the applicants intent since the concept plan to have an HOA that was not so this is just because they're having an HOA it's fine um so it wasn't something that well if you're going to do it this way you're going to have to have an HOA and then they were talking about implementing it um so I but sure it was more in the standards that we just recently passed where uh so anyway if it wasn't applicable to this one the Pud standards correct y so the only reason that I'm addressing it in this case is because happened to be an opportunity to highlight it not because it was relative at all to the applicant in in question tonight Mr chair can I make a can I ask a question to the developer sure please um regarding the pool you know and and its position and its accessibility to Residents and the parking is certainly a concern for a lot of people um is there another place to put it or what or is there bu a pool versus another type of amenity I'm I'm curious kind of the story there there's a lot there chairing Commissioners there is a lot there let's see if I can answer them I'm not going to answer them succinctly I'll just answer the questions as they come into my mind pool versus something else uh from our experience this price point a pool is an amenity that the homeowners like okay okay so that's why pool different location absolutely the issue is when we originally came with our sketch plan that KAC bubble on the Southeast Corner we had it smaller so we could have had another lot of two the city asked that it be a full-size CAC understand why for emergency vehicles so we expanded the culdesac which reduced the depth of that parcel that parcel can no longer be built as a single family home so it made sense if we're going to have an amenity lot that that one makes that that one seemed appropriate because of because of the size of it could it go somewhere else sure but we'll lose a lot and I honestly don't know what that does to density outlot e is in the center of the development and it looks like it has a face by by outlot that that Center out lot there's a lot of topography there getting roads down the I will say if we're just addressing the parking for that pool house um it reminds me very much of a neighborhood Implement that's off of Vicksburg and 55 or 55th Place and similar although that neighborhood is huge and their pool house for that neighborhood is right at the entrance so it it reminded me of that in in terms of this only because it's not centrally located it is at one end of the development or the other um they the way that they accommodated uh parking was just to have a I'm GNA use the wrong word but the curb in right okay off the street so but I'm reminded that we don't need to make this a huge deal because what a pool is open probably from Memorial Day to Labor Day so three months out of the year three quarters of the Year this isn't going to be a huge deal um I guess I would be in favor there is parking there I do think that people will park I think that anybody who lives probably more than 10 houses away is going to want to drive um so I would be in favor of kind of what staff proposed if there's a way to create the the three parking spots there um and then maybe bike rcks you know let's encourage folks to bike to the i' say Bike R but anyway that was what I those were my thoughts regarding parking I think par I think more parking there is probably not necessary especially if you're not supposed to drive there supposed to be walkable supposed to be in the neighborhood kids can bike let the kids bike well I'd like to make a motion to approve the preliminary plat can I get a second I'll second all those in favor say I I I all opposed nay nay yes okay n you got the double negative corrected okay and I think that leaves us with variances correct so um I guess in my view the variance requests that are rolled into the application are the most difficult part for me um it seems that these asks are very much like those that the commission heard in the Pud context where these items would be packaged as flexibility my instincts tell me uh that they should be approved and I and I indeed um think that the asks make a lot of sense but PUD flexibility is not the standard to apply here because there is no PUD um however uh that is one of the things that I do appreciate about this application uh the resoning application Cuts directly to what it should be so uh you know Natalie I see one of your suggestions is that these variance requests should really be a zoning Amendment and I agree with that um so uh in a bit Natalie I'm going to ask you to describe what that process would would look like is it simply a request to the applicant to recast their request as a zoning ordinance Amendment um also because it's so close to a PUD flexibility request won't changes to the zoning ordinance es need to be made anyway after the puds move from PUD to their under underlying zoning so I guess what I'm asking is uh that wouldn't this be a solution to modifying now what we uh would need to modify in the future uh anyway um briefly with regard to the side setbacks um you know i' i' I'd like to uh tackle one thing here is uh this 7 and2 foot side setback uh my comment on this is that if I were a homeowner uh it would be good for for my census to have my property lines the same on both sides especially when when when mowing and uh as staff noted this is really a distinction without a difference but I uh I um also am not clear whether the property's boundaries are enough to show a hardship especially since homes will still be 15 feet apart either way uh so for that Natalie in your view is this a zoning ordinance amendment that provides seven and a half foot side setbacks as an option or in lie of the current Arrangement 10 foot on garage side five foot on uh living space side um and I guess you know ultimately I could be SED either either way on that point with respect to the garage door percentage I agree with staff that this doesn't seem to me to meet the variant standards um you know it's a it's a taller should I say a wide order little lame attempted humor okay I tried um I got it for that reason um I just want to say that I do not think that this request uh is in response to a hardship you need to a parcel I would support a zoning ordinance uh Amendment and then just my final comment on the buffer yard uh this variant uh variance request seems very reasonable and the hardship is that the plantings will not survive and we have uh I want to say expert testimony but we do have expert feedback on that do answer his question so um I'll be it a little bit convoluted since we already voted on the zoning ordinance amendment I think that it I don't think we can change the vote at this point um of the three potentially the side setback could be addressed um with the with an additional text Amendment and our zoning ordinance Amendment um for the project I guess I mean I'm fine with the buffer yards so um do we have any discussion on the buffer yard no I do but that's just because um how do forests grow you know I mean like it's dense trees and made up in narrow trees I do understand that that when you have mature trees they are going to take most of the light from what it is she's planting so I can understand the landscape um comment um I I just feel like so much changes when development comes in because even the removal of trees changes the way the wind moves through there and so it could really harm you know the trees that have been there for a really long time so I just find that I would rather stick with the um implementation of denying that variance how about the buffard bar which which VAR the landscape yeah the which is the buffer yard so the landscape variance I can understand that you wouldn't want to plant a Tall Tree there because it's going to try to lean away from the wooded area that's already there but you could require understory trees there and they're very attractive and you know they're high enough to be still be a variant though because of how many overstory trees are required for a buffer yard ordinance formula I I would if there's a way to say put in underst stories instead of overo stories I guess that would be a good solution to it and it would be attractive I don't know if that's possible although a varians I think that's a good idea that's some too the problem with relying on existing trees also there's a lot of ash trees that are dying right now large large overstory trees we have dozens of them just on our 5 acre property that will be gone in a matter of years they've been debarked this winter by the pated wooders well I I'll make a motion to recommend approval of the um buffer yard variant can I get a second is that for land scaping also um I I just the seven and a half foot no I think the S and a half foot is the side setb I made the I made a motion to approve the variance with respect to the the buffer yard buffer yards and it's based on the fact that he has a uh Landscaping expert who said that plantings may not survive I don't I don't want to force someone to to pay for plantings that we've been told are going to die does by an expert does the city have a like a a natural expert or is this in the engineering memo or do we have any validation of that not to say it's not correct I'm just you know what what's our what's our other external opinion on this do we have one uh we don't have a Landscape Architects staff at the city landform does have a landscape architect that we can get an opinion from my understanding is that the um city that the ordinance was taken from has said that there's been problems with the trees on viability my concern is that we're taking the Developers opinion and I would prefer not to do that so then what is the solution for if there is because again I don't want to make somebody pay for something that's going to die although that is happening regardless of um of whether it's because of the competition for trees like it just sometimes happens right and so um my understanding is that as long as the developer still has the um management of the property they're responsible for replacing that once it's gone to the homeowners association then that responsibility is dispelled to replace anything that dies am I yeah correct for the property so the trees that are in the buffer yard don't necessarily need to be um in an outlaw they can be on a lot y so it either be the property owner depending on how it's broken up so it looks like some of it would be um some of it on Lots so I don't think it would be necessarily the HOA but individual Property Owners required eventually to replace trees that have died if we deny it are there other options for them to meet that requirement that might be more flexible other than planting trees where they're going to not where they won't Thrive so there are a couple options within the ordinance to to have different like if there's a fence then there's less Landscaping required um also there is some flexibility if the area has been an existing wooded area then they can be exempt from the buffer yard ordinance it seems like it could potentially apply here probably better than a variance and I think the long-term solution would be a zoning ordinance amendment to reevaluate the number of trees we requiring in these buer yards so I do have a pending motion to approve the uh variance is there a second hearing no second is there someone else who's going to make a motion so the proposal from staff was to move forward by just saying that the existing wooded areas would qualify for buffering uh correct and then denying the variance okay so I'm in favor of that one however I just want to ver like I want to run something by you we had the um self storage place right at the edge of Greenfield and there was the question about counting uh Landscaping that was on someone else's property as a part of this buffer zone and I just want to make sure that all of a sudden we're not finding ourselves here in contradiction of what the outcome of that um decision was I I I think we are very close very close to contradicting ourselves same issue yeah okay and will you remind us if you remember what the solution the ultimate decision in that by Council was made or unless you guys remember they told them to either apply for uh oh can't remember now I think it was either to apply for an actual variance because maybe they brought it up too late in the application or a zoning ordinance amendment that was something that was discussed um I think it was discussed but they hadn't applied for a variance when it came in front of you and it was too late to add it in um and so instead of having Council adopt something on the fly or try to provide flexibility on the Fly that didn't fit within her code they like either Fly for a variance or um some kind of Zing end Amendment or they need to proceed with the buffer yard as required um so yeah it's it's it's a little tricky so in this scenario for us to not contradict ourselves what is the best P of action recorded the applicant needs to plant the buffer yard as required okay so then I would make a motion to approve the two variances for the seven and a half side yard setback on either side the um garage uh percentage and then deny the uh buffer yard variance can I add one comment if we're going to all three now sure oh yeah for sure I can pull my motion I pull my motion for further discussion okay um regarding the garage I think it's awesome that the Second Story I think that's good staff removed or recommended to not require or take them up on the offer the 30 foot setback I would say that's a public benefit I don't know why we don't take off on it if you remember if I can just add something if you remember early in my presentation I said I made a mistake I was all confused about the 20s and 25 I really do want 25 for everything I I I The Narrative says 30 my preference was spe dis with 25 for everything so the 25 is a 5 foot increase what's required so my preference and I can my N I say 25 30t oh come on five more feet although although to say if you took it from the front or if you added it to the front you're just taking it from the back and as a resident I think most people would prefer a larger backyard than a okay so we have 25 feet within our current as proposed okay so to keep things moving I will make a motion to recommend denial of the buffer yards can I get a second second a second all in favor I all opposed nay uh that passes is does that include the two variances that we're approving or do you need to make a separate motion for that no there'll be two more motions coming up I'd like to uh I mean does anyone want to make a motion on the side setback I would make a motion to approve Pro the side set back to 7 and2 ft the variance and you don't want me to throw in the garages at the same time you want to keep them separate throw it all right that's my motion anybody second I'll second that all in favor say I I all opposed nay one nay anyone want to make a motion with respect to the garage door area I'll make a motion uh um I'm G to I'm going to agree with staff that this does not seem to meet the variant standard so I'm going to make a motion to deny the garage door area of percentage can I get a second second all in favor of denial say I I all opposed nay so we need an affirm motion though to recomend approval if that was two three unless I got the numbers wrong well I think it was three to2 okay yeah yeah I'm sorry it was a a yeah it was 3-2 to deny the garage door area variance did you vote nay I voted nay okay so if you voted nay to deny for a motion to deny recommend denial and that means that you are in favor of approving the Vari approving the variance understand that okay so then so then it was okay so then what you're saying is someone needs to make an affirmative so that it can go forward so I make a motion to approve the variance for the garage uh percentage a second wait what just Happ we have three V yeah we were out we were out numbered three votes to deny okay I apologize if I got num to approve sorry that was my bad too I thought I heard three say nay so that's why I apologize okay can we take a poll I'm you're n n okay three nay oh on the second motion now okay no so I apologize go back to the first one yeah I heard three names there were we were we were we were correct okay so with that I'm going to make a motion I mean oh wait we still have some more stuff to do yeah yeah a seconded my little oh here we go all right and Natalie you removed I think we're on AA you've remove excuse me you have removed AA correct a AI yeah correct and we have no other business okay no other business uh we have two Representatives here from city council any are you done with them I yeah we're we're all done thanks for coming out thank you for your feedback I'm sorry I interrupt that's okay uh any any reports or anything I know usually we ask questions of you staff wasn't I there's any staff report you want there isn't a staff report it's just a planning project update oh but not a council report you guys got any questions for us is usually what I ask you guys absolutely not could could I say a couple things please yeah uh so um I I hope that the Planning Commission is paying attention to the things that are happening in the legislature yes uh there's there's a lot of big deal things that are going to have serious implications for corporate and so if you don't know what I'm talking about please check into it uh because there's at least three bills on the floor right now and they're trying to do an Omnibus Bill that is really going to change the way that development happens in this community and so uh if if you have thoughts on how that impacts you I encourage you to contact your other elected officials and make those thoughts note uh if I could um so I wrote a a letter to members of city council about this I sent them to to our uh elected officials um I sent them to the Star Tribune uh my comments are being republished on Sunday in the Star Tribune I am very disappointed in every one of our elected officials because the only response I got from anyone was from the Star tribute oh not even the canned response that you get when you just submit an email not even the and response okay so essentially the state wants to strip uh local government of uh their uh their right to determine what their cities are going to look like moving forward so M Mr chair I do I do want to clarify that when he's speaking about elected officials he's talking about those that are on the committee uh I met with Senator limmer and I met with with representative provins when I was at the at the capital on Thursday and they are both understanding of corin's situation and supportive of our position then tell them to respond to emails from their constituents fa um but I I just want to make sure that you're keeping a pulse on it there's going to be another hearing that happens on Thursday that's the next one it was it was going until :3 today the next hearing it's going to go to state city and veterans committee uh no that's that's the name the committee that's a we that's the next hearing that's happening uh for some of those bills uh and pleas please pay attention to it because there's going to be serious very serious implications for us and they're trying to backdate it so it becomes immediate uh so so some sometimes these we have time as City staff to try and prepare and if these changes really happen it's going to be Swift and it's going to be huge is it possible because you meet with them I mean they won't even return my emails is it possible for you to ask just a a yes or no have they received uh or have they been influenced by lobbyists so uh I will say I asked not quite that point blank but but I asked that question as it pertained to the PHS and uh one of the responses that I got is they're making an intentional uh choice to kind of distance themselves in order to me that was the response that yeah know because when I spoke with the Star Tribune reporter he said that they acknowledged that they have been contact acted and and heavily lobbied by the developer lobbyists so I I'm I'm surprise to do this hor houses yeah yeah you're exactly right well you know we're just not smart enough to govern ourselves yeah and now they're looking back one of the big gaps in the proposals didn't deal with the realities of some of the utilities infrastructure who pays for water capacities those sorts of things they're now trying to talk about that uh but I understand why it makes a lot of sense for for some of the communities inside the 494 Bo as they're trying to address it uh it doesn't take into consideration those of us outside of the 494 Loop and and the fact that responsible development is happening there's good discussions people can agreee or disagree with the decisions that are happening but conscientious choices made by elected representatives or appointed Representatives within our communities take that away uh for people who have no idea what's going on work or any of our neighbers is irresponsible and uh before we adjourn that was the best application I've read since my time here I a little bit she well that was it was because I'll tell you what I am I it was nice having uh having an application that just checked the boxes without asking for a hundred you know different uh you know different concessions and I I appreciated that so may I ask One update of city counil um what is first first no no please just give I just want an update on what is the status of the Organics recycling program because I know that they are in discussion and um I know that one company chose to charge right and the other didn't and so I just wanted an update because I know the city clerk was working on that so so I'll respond because waiting for the same thing for me uh so our our staffer that was handling that action um has been out of the office and so I will be getting an update later this week and and trying to provide that I was hoping to provide them an update at the council member or at the council meeting on Thursday I I simply don't I'm doing the work for like four people right now sure so uh the reality is we hear it I've gotten calls it's very important I just haven't been able to and I don't have anyone else action of it right now I called oh Republic and I've been extremely clear from a council member's position that they're wrong for what's written in the law and whatever that as long as we have a centralized area nobody they can't charge the whole group somebody asked for containers they can try and the person was not the person I wanted to talk to they gave me the administrative phone number and our administrator has to make the call they won't talk to anybody else so I Tred it as far as far as a council member goes and uh if yall want to know I'll say it I told them straight up um curbside will not charge you Republic does and and that's the stands right now so that's probably one way it's been changed yeah before we adjourn I have had a question and I interruped her I'm sorry um I'm not sure if this is the Forum actually so I'm going to pass oh come on I am okay fine let's do it um I I'm interested in in thoughts because I feel like I beat a dead horse on this every meeting I'm sorry maybe it's why I'm here um we're at such a crucial time right now as our mayor said over the next 12 months of decisions we make I'm Gravely concerned about precedence and the whole Community Church passed okay um referenced in that you know the Precedence of Prior puds I'm curious what the council's perspective is or maybe it's yours and if this is a controversial question you don't have to answer it but what's the stance on you know what precedence how how we revert from setting some sort of Precedence of accepting setbacks and variances without significant reasoning or like what what's the perspective on PUD applications going forward and how are we going to work with precedence that's going to be continually building either one of us can I I need more specifics Lindsay what precedence have we set or you feel well just talking about setbacks I'll give you a general answer okay could could we adjourn yeah that's that's why maybe I passed yeah we can JM I this I'll give you my personal opinion because I can't speak for the council sure but puds are negotiated instruments so there really is no precedence they're all different everyone is different everyone is negotiating and we've had discussions on variances in the past variances don't set presences either so okay I wouldn't worry about precedences as much we don't think there's legal risk not for no very so there's very limited window where variance might set precedence of a similarly situated application in time location and conditions it's very similar then arguably there might be some precedent um but the city is allowed to learn from previous decisions um say that we did at that time it didn't work we don't want to do it anymore um but like for example if one house came in and got a setback variant uh to put on a deck and then another house that had the same conditions comes in two months later we' probably be a little little to deny that but puds specifically that there's no legal risk no no we're able to negotiate public benefits and the and then the flexibilities on a case- by case basis but even a debt variance they have to prove a hardship right and there has to be a similar hardship to consider presedent exactly so it's is very important that the findings of fact and their variances are unique um So to avoid setting a precedent or having something look like a precedent could be set so thank you April 25th I am currently scheduled to be the uh city council liaison I will be in Delaware that day and unavail is there anyone willing to swap days with me I think I can't just let me check or maybe not swap I think I owe you oh de you I think I owe you well let's Natalie can you speak to April's meeting at all in terms of uh uh light lightness or heaviness the public hearing notices going out this week are for PUD um the CH property uh which is off of map in new and then um a cup for a a garage okay sidewall I think right yeah like the third to you success on that meeting okay thank you appreciate it lman I'll take it thank you yep and let's see commissioner Kiki am II so I see that you're um you're scheduled for the April uh uh city council meeting I'll be in attendance as well commissioner BR you intend uh assuming that all works yes I intend okay well with that can I get a motion to adjourn I will make that motion second all in favor say I I all opposed thank you we're done okay