[Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Good morning, Witchaw, and good morning  to all of you. Thank you for joining us   for this morning's city council  meeting. We'll call this meeting   to order. With us this morning is Pastor  Ryan Emmens of Friendship Baptist Church   by I35 and Pawnee. Pastor Emmens will  provide our invocation. Following that,   we will have our pledge of allegiance.  And we ask that you please stand for both. Dear heavenly father, as we bow our heads in  prayer, we just know that as your word says   that unless you build the house, they labor  in vain that build it. And so we ask that you   would give us wisdom and direction this morning.  Yeah, I should be with our council members and   our our madame mayor and give them understanding  and wisdom to help the city of Wichita that we   might be the best we could possibly be. Lord, we  ask for your wisdom in the ways that would help   not only for protection, Lord, but would help each  citizen be able to be the best they they can be in   a city where there's lots of people with different  varying opinions and varying backgrounds. And we   recognize there are many cities um problems that  we have and we we understand Lord that there are   wicked people out there in the world. And so it's  our desire that we would just be the best light   that we could possibly be and that you would  give us protection and wisdom discerning these   types of things. We also know that your word is  what gives us the wisdom that we need for every   opportunity we have. And so we thank you that  this city council meets and opens in a word of   prayer to ask for your guidance in every step of  the way. And then father obviously by the crowd   this morning there's a lot of people that are  here for varying reasons. And I know that days   like this can be very stressful. So I ask that  you would just give calm hearts and a readiness   of mind and that the proceedings would happen  very um refreshing and at the end of the day   people would be look at today's meeting as  very impactful and helpful for the different   tasks that are laid ahead. And then lastly we  think of Jesus Christ who died on the cross for   our sins and gave his life and came back to life  again to prove he was almighty God. And we thank   you for the relationship we get to have with you  because of what your son did on the cross for us.   We thank you for letting us be able to meet today,  for this great nation that we have and for this   wonderful city that you've allowed us to be a  part of. And we ask that you would just bless this   meeting in a way that is by your hands abundant  guidance today. In your name I pray. Amen. I aliance to the flag of the United States of  America and to the republic for which it stands.   One nation under God, indivisible,  with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Pastor Emmens. And again, thank you to all of you who are still  coming in. We do have an overflow room in the   council chamber um sorry, the council boardroom  on the other side of this hallway. Thank you   again for joining us this morning. Madame clerk,  can you please call the first item? Approve the   minutes of the regular meeting October 14th,  2025. Council members, any items to be edited?   I see none. I move to approve the minutes of  the regular meeting October 14th, 2025. Second.   Motion and a second. Any further discussion? I  see none. Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion passes 70. Madame clerk, please call the  next item. Awards and proclamations. Today's   proclamations are domestic violence month,  national chiropractor month, and mindful ICT   coming to our hearts day. May I please ask the  city of Witchah Law Department and anyone in   support of the domestic violence month awareness  proclamation to come forward at this time. The proclamation reads, "The city  of Wichita, Kansas, founded in 1870,   whereas the city of Wichita and Cedric  County Coordinated Community response   team are committed to taking a firm position  against domestic violence and remain focused   on ensuring that victims are safe and abusers  are held accountable for their crimes. Whereas   domestic violence and sexual assault result in  widespread victimization of adults, children,   and families throughout the world. Whereas  in 2024, more than 17,000 calls for service   related to domestic violence offenses were made  in Wichita and the local criminal justice system   dedicates tremendous resources to arrest and  prosecute perpetrators. Whereas the theme of   this year's domestic violence awareness month  campaign is love shouldn't hurt. This campaign   calls on new partners and community members  to help expand domestic violence prevention   and awareness efforts ensuring that the next  generation fosters attitudes that promote   healthy relationships, equality, and respect.  Now therefore, be it resolved that the Wichita   City Council does hereby proclaim domestic  violence awareness month. [Applause] [Music] Good morning. My name is Amanda Myers. I'm the  executive director of the Wichita Family Crisis   Center. We are a one of the shelters and crisis  centers for survivors of domestic violence.   Uh domestic violence awareness month is about  educating the public about domestic violence,   about supporting survivors and about uniting  to prevent domestic violence in the future.   Unfortunately, I don't think that Wichita needs  any educating about domestic violence. In the   past few months, we've heard about some pretty  severe domestic violence. And unfortunately,   um I am going to talk about it a little bit. It's  really hard to hear, but it's incumbent upon us to   bear witness um on behalf of these survivors.  There was a 20-year-old young woman who was   pregnant and lost her life as a result of domestic  violence. A law enforcement officer was gunned   down reporting to a domestic violence incident  in Hayes. Um a community support uh worker who   we all many of us knew well um was murdered by her  boyfriend stuffed into the trunk of her car last   month. Um and uh you know we made national news  as a result of a woman being brutally abducted   um on a and it was recorded on a Ring camera um  and it took days to identify her. So education   is not the issue. Supporting survivors is is about  honoring the heroes that stand behind me and some   of whom didn't come up here this morning. The  community support workers, the law enforcement,   the victim service providers, they are heroes. But  you all here today are also heroes because I know   that prevention and uniting to prevent domestic  violence is a priority for this community both   with the city council, the mayor, and you  all here today. So, thank you very much for   this proclamation and for being here to support  survivors and ending domestic violence. Thank you. One, two, three. One, two, three. May I please ask the Kansas Chiropractic  Association to come forward at this time? Good morning. The city of Wichita, Kansas, founded  in 1870. Whereas chronic muscular skeletal pain   is a widespread problem in the United States,  including Wichita, due to factors such as aging,   obesity, and sedentary lifestyles, and back pain  remains the single leading cause of disability   worldwide. Whereas pain medications, especially  opioids, have long been a default treatment for   these conditions. However, research shows they are  not an effective long-term strategy for chronic   low back pain and safer non-drug approaches are  preferred by many patients. Whereas national   clinical guidelines, including those from the  Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and   the American College of Physicians, recommend  that patients with common muscularkeeletal pain   seek non-drug treatments first. And research  demonstrates that chiropractic care can help   reduce reliance on prescription opioids. Whereas  chiropractors are experts in muscularkeeletal   health and provide evidence-based non-drug  approaches to address back pain, neck pain, joint   pain, and headaches while also offering guidance  on nutrition, ergonomics, injury prevention,   and healthy lifestyle choices. Now therefore,  be it resolved that the Wichita City Council   does hereby proclaim October 2025 as National  Chiropractic Health Month. [Applause] Thank you,   Madam Mayor. Uh I obviously should have brought  more friends. I am happy to share this message   though such a a packed house today, though. Um,  on behalf of the Kansas Chiropractic Association   and the American Chiropractic Association,  I'm honored today to speak as we celebrate   National Chiropractic Health Month 2025. This  year's theme, Get Started with Chiropractic,   highlights how chiropractic care can be the first  step in managing car managing pain and improving   health without drugs. The American Chiropractic  Association emphasizes that chiropractic care   can help reduce reliance on opioids, supporting a  safer and healthier approach to pain management.   Today, we extend our deepest gratitude  to Mayor Lily Wu and the Wichita City   Council for officially proclaiming October  as chiropractic health month in Witchah. This   proclamation underscores our community's  commitment to health and wellness. And we   encourage everyone to take this opportunity  to learn how chiropractic care can be a key   part of their journey toward better health.  Let's celebrate this month by c by spreading   awareness of the benefits of chiropractic  care and by encouraging friends, family,   and our neighbors to get started with chiropractic  and embrace a healthier lifestyle. Thank you. May I please ask council member Ballard and  retreat to joy to come forward at this time. Hi, good morning. The city of Wichita, Kansas, founded in  1870. Whereas Mindful ICT is a grassroots   public health initiative sponsored by Retreat  to Joy created to increase both mental and   physical wellness in the Wichita community through  mindfulness practices, education, and connection.   Whereas Mindful ICT brings together community  partners including Network Kansas, the Rearen   Clinic, Mindful Leader, and the Mindful Teacher  Community Network, MTCN, to expand opportunities   for mindfulness-based learning, collaboration,  and community growth. Whereas this proclamation   celebrates the inaugural mindful teacher community  network retreat coming to our hearts which honors   teachers and community leaders for bringing  mindfulness into our hearts, workplaces,   schools and neighborhoods. Whereas Wichita is  a community rooted in compassion, innovation,   and collaboration. proud to support initiatives  that elevate wellness, strengthen connection, and   showcase the city's beauty, strength, and heart.  Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Witchah   City Council does hereby proclaim October 18th,  2025 as Mindful ICT coming home to our heart day. Wow. Good morning. This is the biggest crowd  I've seen and I'm so happy to be here. My name   is Constance Parasa and I am founder of Retreat to  Joy and it was a lifetime in the making. I come to   mindfulness from mental illness background  and right now we have collective insanity   going on. It's it's an epidemic. So 57 million  Americans struggle with depression, anxiety,   relationship problems. That's one in four canons.  So my company has been around for 10 years and I   have it's the biggest transformation I've had  in my mental health and I could give you you   know some occurrences but we don't need  to go there. This is fresh. So this came   about it's a public health initiative because  the old ways that we've treated just mental   illness is it's not working. So mindfulness offers  more prevention management of excellent mental   health. So I'm very happy that I was teamed  with Rearen Clinic Network Kansas Mindful   Leader and Mindful Teacher Community Network.  and we're going to pick up other businesses,   other individuals along the way who can  contribute to mental wellness. Thank you so much. May I please now ask the nonprofit organization   gathered and its supporters  to come forward at this time. The city of Wichita is recognizing gathered and  issues this certificate of recognition in honor of   dedicated service to the children and families of  our community through collaboration, compassion,   and innovation gathered has strengthened the  network of care surrounding Sedgwick County's most   vulnerable. Their commitment to supporting those  who care for those others embodies the spirit of   unity and service that defines Wichita. The city  of Wichita celebrates Gathered's fifth anniversary   and continued efforts to build stronger families,  connected communities, and lasting hope. [Music] Thank you. It's such a great opportunity to serve  the community. Um, this is my plug, gathered.com.   If you want to help us build a continuum of care  to support the vulnerable children and families in   our community, we would definitely appreciate that  because um, anything that we're facing, whether   it's domestic violence, drug addiction, other  substances, um, that's a community problem and the   only way we'll um, solve them or get any progress  is working together. Thank you. [Applause] [Music] One two three. Tuttle to come forward. Matt Martinez and   the parks and recck department  to come forward at this time. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Thank  you. I'm Becky Tuttle and it is my honor to be   here today to recognize someone whose vision and  dedication has transformed the way Wichita moves,   connects, and celebrates our great community.  Matt Martinez. Matt is the recreation supervisor   with the city of Wichita Park and Recreation  Department. Back in 2016, Matt traveled all   the way to Portland, Oregon to see how their open  streets events were done. He came home inspired,   full of ideas, and determined to bring the  same energy and sense of community to Wichita.   And because of his passion and his incredible  leadership, the very first Open Streets ICT was   held in 2017 on Douglas Street. That first event  was something special. We closed more than four   miles of Douglas on a Sunday in September. All  to get people outside, active, and connecting   with other people and local businesses. More than  15,000 people came to the first Open Streets ICT   event to walk, dance, scooter, stroller, and  explore our beautiful downtown. Many saying   they hadn't been downtown in years. And from  there, the event has just kept growing. It's   estimated by 2019, we had 35,000 people attend  Open Streets ICT. But Matt didn't stop there.   The success of Open Streets ICT on Douglas  inspired other neighborhoods to want to join   in. In 2019, community leaders in Nomar reached  out to MAD wanting to host their own Open Streets   ICT on 21st Street. And of course, Matt jumped  right in to make it happen. And then in 2022,   Wichita State University came on board hoping  hosting their first event on 17th Street.   Since then, Matt has been organizing three Open  Streets ICT events each year on Douglas, in Nomar,   and at WSU. Each of them brings thousands of  people together to be active, engage with local   businesses, and enjoy everything that makes  Wichita so special. behind the scenes. People   don't see it, but Matt works diligently with park  maintenance, with the Wichita Police Department,   and community partners and other city agencies  to ensure every event is safe, successful,   and enjoyable for everyone. His teamwork  and attention to detail have been key to the   program's continued success. The impact has been  incredible. families getting together outside,   neighbors connecting, local businesses thriving,  and a stronger, healthier community. The feedback   from residents has been overwhelmingly positive,  and it's clear that Open Streets ICT has become   one of Wichita's most beloved traditions.  Matt, your leadership, energy, and passion   for the community has made a lasting impact  in our city. On behalf of the city of Wichita,   it is my pleasure to present you with the Open  Streets ICT Championship belt and a symbol of   your championship spirit and your dedication  to make Wichita a more active, connected, and   vibrant place to live. Matt, congratulations and  thank you for all you have done for our community. Thank you so much, Becky. Um, I appreciate  everybody's support. If it wasn't for the team   behind me, these events couldn't happen. So,  I appreciate everything and, uh, it's a great   team to work with, and I look forward to the next  Open Street coming up in April. Thank you so much. [Applause] [Music] You guys are a team. One, two, three. One, two,  three. Thank you. [Applause] May I please ask the Wichita  Airport Authority and all its staff,   including most especially Valerie  Wise, to come forward at this time. Good morning. This distinguished service citation marks  31 years of service to the city of Wichita.   This certificate and award is for Valerie  Wise, presented in recognition of dedicated   service rendered to the community and  citizens of the city of Wichita, Kansas.   In her 31 years and four months of service,  Valerie Weise has served as an an administrative   secretary, administrative aid, air service  development coordinator, principal planner,   air service and business development administrator  and is now retiring as division manager.   We want to say thank you to Valerie for her  dedicated service to the citizens of Wichita. [Applause] It was in 1994 when I applied  for the administrative assistant position,   never ever thinking I would get the job because  I was six months pregnant. And my husband and   I thought there's no way. Well, God had another  plan for me. And in April of 1994, Bailis Bell,   who was the director of the airport,  hired me. Later, I asked him, you know,   why did he do that? And he said, well, you're  going to get pregnant sooner or later. So, so I   I had no airport experience, but I quickly learned  the job. I studied the the consultant reports. I   learned from my mentors and I quickly learned  how dynamic and exciting the airport industry   is and I just loved it and I learned and I studied  and got involved in more projects. 12 years later   the air service and marketing position opened up  and Victor White was the director at that time.   I reluctantly applied for it because it would  involve public speaking. It would involve media   interviews and I was always one to shy away from  the camera, but I felt I could do it. And so I   applied the very last day that they were taking  applications. And once again, God showed up and   he got me the job. And I will have to say that um  it has been a career that I have loved. Um I have   enjoyed the people in this industry. My co-workers  back at the airport authority are the best people   you'll ever meet because they are hardworking.  They are dedicated to the airport and to its   success and its safety. And they're fun people and  they're like family to me and I will miss them.   I've had the privilege of meeting so many people  in the city, um, leaders in the city that I would   never have been able to meet before. They're good  people. There's so many good people in this city.   Um, as I reflect on my career, I'd like to think  that I leave the airport in a good position. We   are seeing record traffic. In fact, the first  quarter of this year, we had lower average   itinerary affairs than Kansas City had, which  has never happened before. Um, so I want to   thank Jesse for putting up with me. Of course,  I think it goes both ways. uh and um my husband,   my family who have um not seen me much during  my career because I put in pretty long days. But   um I feel like any successes that I have  had have been blessings from God and he   gets all the credit. I want to thank you for this  recognition. [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] One, two, three. One, two, three. Thank you, [Music] Madame Clerk. Please call  the next item. Public agenda. The public   agenda allows for up to five speakers to have  five minutes each to address the council. No   action will be taken relative to items on the  public agenda other than referral to the city   manager for information as necessary. Speakers  will please state their name and address for   the record. A time clock will display the  speaker's remaining time to speak. Order   and rules of decorum will be observed. The first  speaker for today is Arthur Stokes, Black Mold. Good morning everybody. My name is Arthur. Uh  I'm at 2614 South Topeka apartment 202 and I'm   speaking on the topic of black mode but it really  tops on the topic of environmental indoor health   quality. It's it's like the mental health but  indoors. I mean, you have a a lot of different   uh type of indoor problems and uh mold is to me  it's kind of sneaky. You know, you don't really   have it's kind of like COVID 19 that we just  experienced. you don't really have a list of one   group of symptoms from it. And uh you know it it  it really sneaked up into my life. You know I had   so many different symptoms from it. I had planned  it uh this morning to try to get uh speakers in,   but I I I'm end up I'm doing what I can to hold  the podium. I've been talking to a lot of people   and people just aren't really processing on how  really graphic this topic really is. You know,   we don't really want to talk about that. This is  a topic, you know, it's it's kind of underground,   but you know, my target is to try to like bring  people in that spent more money. But uh you know   and let them share their experiences and strength  and you know and talk about really how really bad   this stuff has really affected them and you know  trying to come out on the other side. I feel like   uh this topic chose me. I didn't choose this  topic because it it affected me. You know I have   uh I have numerous of experience. I have an  athletic background. Uh I played some high school   allameans. Uh one of them was OJ Simpson's protege  Tyrone Young who's now deceased. And uh you know   life hits us all in in some type of way. This  was one that was, you know, really had me looking   around with, you know, trying to keep inventory  on my life and, you know, my finances and stuff   and the the amount of uh goals that I had set for  myself, I came up really short. I mean, this this   stuff can really clean you out. It can clean your  bank account out. Big farmer can clean your bank   account out. So, you know, my goal is if uh to  try to talk to legislature, city council, and   uh next year hopefully try to bring more people  in on this with me. This is such a huge topic.   Uh we have the auditorium full this morning.  The auditorium should be full of people that   have stories to share uh about how this stuff has  affected them as well as their families. I mean,   I' I've talked to a few. I think I'm going to  get a few on board, but you know, it's it's a   slow process in getting people to open up. I think  a lot of us are really not processing uh how this   stuff has affected us or else they're embarrassed  to how much money they spend in remodeling the   house. And then when you talking about finances,  you know, all of us want to cover that up. I mean,   I don't have a whole lot of money. So, you know,  I didn't have no problems in open up. You know,   it's it's still affecting me. I have uh yet to get  uh ulcers, but I'm right on the mountain for it.   So, I I really have to be cool. I have to kind of  like stay defused from uh external situations that   I can't control because uh I don't want users, you  know, uh I'm going to pick one of these meetings   to talk about my early experiences and challenges  that almost took me out. So, I feel like I'm a   miracle being here. If the council members have  anything to add or say. Thank you, Mr. Stokes. Uh,   you may have a seat. We will have comments.  Council member Johnson. Thanks, Mayor. Thank you,   Mr. Stokes, for being here and continuing to use  your voice as always. Sorry that you went through   that experience, but uh, promise kept today.  We have items to hopefully address that. Um,   we'll see how that goes today. But there are a  number of things uh in our first item that would   address the things that you've talked to us about,  you just again appreciate you continuing to use   your voice and show the living conditions that  some people have to deal with here in Witchah. I know that we have a lot of new people in the  room at the current moment. There is an overflow   room across uh the hallway if you would like a  seat. Um there are also some seats right at the   front if you would like to again have that seat.  In addition, I just wanted to make uh folks who   may not have been to city council before aware  of public agenda. There are five individuals   that have signed up either early um or will be  able to speak uh during public agenda. However,   the very first item that I think a lot of you are  here to speak about will be coming up in shortly.   So you don't have to speak during the public  agenda. There will be public comment for   that item. Madame clerk, can you please call the  second individual? Rhonda Whiters, public safety. Is Rhonda here this morning? Madame Clerk, can you please call  the third individual? Laura McIntyre,   Religious Freedom and Human Flourishing Summit. Good morning. I'm here to announce not only to  the city council but to everybody present that   on this Thursday, October 23rd from 9 to 1:30  p.m. people from all faiths and no faith at   all will gather at the Wichita Marriott for the  Kansas Religious Freedom and Human Flourishing   Summit. This gathering is free and open to the  public. It is not a conference for one religion   or one point of view. It's a chance for all of  us to come together, learn from one another, and   explore how the freedom to believe and to worship  contributes to the well-being of individuals and   our entire community. The theme for the summit is  religious freedom and human flourishing. Studies   from across the world have shown that when people  are free to live according to their conscience,   to gather in community, and to express their own  values, everyone benefits. People are healthier,   communities are more resilient, and nations are  stronger. At the summit, we'll hear from three   respected leaders and scholars who've devoted  their lives to protecting that freedom for all,   including those who believe differently.  There will be time for a dialogue and   asking questions and building friendships across  faith lines. Uh we believe that religious freedom   isn't just about protecting rights, it's about  promoting respect. It's about creating a culture   where we can disagree without division and where  differences become a source of strength. So again,   I invite everyone on this Thursday in two  days to come to the Wichita Marriott at 9:00   in the morning for the Religious Freedom  and Human Flourishing Summit. Thank you. Thank you, Laura. Uh, city, sorry, Vice Mayor John Stone. Thank you,  Mayor Laura. Thank you very much for uh coming to   speak and promoting the event. Uh, I plan on  being there at least for part of it. So, uh, I   do appreciate it and I think it's a great thing in  our city to get everyone together. So, thank you. Madame Clerk, can you please call the fourth  individual, Karen June Cahale, homelessness It's me again. Um, now last year, um, last year  when I spoke to you, um, I talked to you about   some initiatives about homelessness that actually  have been proven to work, like direct payments to   people. Now, instead of making the direct payments  to people, you've been spending $440,000 to clean   up the encampments, but you could have just given  that money to the people and they could have,   you know, added that to what they had and got  some place to live. And um you decided to go   ahead and go your way. That's what you did last  year when I talked to you. And um this is where   we are now. I mean, $440,000 to clean up homeless  encampments when you could just give that money   to the people that are homeless and they'd have a  home. It doesn't make any sense. You're um keeping   people homeless, you're wasting taxpayer money.  And do you know that with I don't this silly thing   where you have to have three times the income for  rent. Um I have never in my life except for two   years had three times my um my my rent and income  ever. And some of us are poor. And for somebody,   they say the average price of an apartment is $600  to $1,200. I go with the middle 800. But to rent   an apartment that's $800 a month, a person working  minimum wage would have to work 80 hours a week.   80 hours a week. You'd have to make $15 an hour  to only work 40 hours a week to be able to rent   that apartment. And so I I think that's stupid  and we should get rid of that. And um that's the   way I feel about that. And also um there's some  policies that county um that's making people   homeless that are on social security because if  if they set your you know if you don't have if you   get arrested in in January for probation violation  you did in December. You don't go to court until   February 22nd and then you get out March 5th which  should have been 3 days after. Um, then the court   sets your official hearing date two months before  your hearing. And so that way the jail gets $400   a month. And you get saddled with a threemonth  overpayment. And you come out of there with two   months not paid, plus you're not getting your  whole check. And the average um social security   check is like $1,800. So that would be a $5,500  overpayment they'd get saddled with. So that the   jail would get $400 a month. And um I think that's  a bad policy that needs to change because social   security law says that until a person is convicted  and sentenced and they start serving their time   ignoring all time before the the the the trial,  there has to be 30 continuous days that they're   locked up. But if if you only get sentenced to  three days, then there shouldn't have even been   an overpayment. But you're sad with $5,500 so the  jail can get $1,200 and you're homeless. they're   causing it for some people that are on social  security and that's ridiculous. And um I heard   you talking about um the thing about the tenants  and the um the landlords and I'm wondering why   um the landlords would be mad. I mean, why aren't  you working with them to help them get the grants   for the community, you know, or the block grants  or the the 504 thing? I mean, there's grants   out there to bring things places up to code for  low-income people. So, why aren't you guys working   together to help them um get those grants? That's  another question I have. And um anyway, those are   my concerns. And I just um sometimes get a little  frustrated with you guys um spending all that   money on cleaning, throwing people's stuff away.  I mean, there's people they already don't have   enough stuff. I mean, they already are already  out there homeless and you take all their stuff   away and go throw it away when you could just give  them the money so that they could have a place to   live and it would make a lot more sense and then  we wouldn't have any homeless people. And um I'm   done. I'm not going to use the rest of my time,  but thank you. [Applause] I'm going to ask for   some decorum in this council chambers. I know that  there's going to be a lot of conversation between   two stakeholder groups. I'm going to ask that  clapping stop at this moment just to have decorum   here in this chamber. Um so I'm just asking kindly  to please follow the rules that we have had set   for council chamber uh decorum. Council member  Johnson. Thanks Mayor. Uh to our last speaker,   just two of the points that you made. Um your last  one, the Kansas Housing Resource Conference is a   great place for landlords to go and learn about  all the resources there and get connected with   that. Our um housing director also goes to that.  So that is a great place to do that. I believe it   was your second point. Um that is not a policy of  the council that folks are required to pay two or   three times or make two or three times their rent.  That's up to the property management company or   andor landlord. Um, to your point, it is very hard  for some people to to do that. And that's why some   people live in substandard conditions today. Two  people can be fully employed, gainfully employed,   and not make that amount, and they cannot move  from wherever they're at. That's a terrible place,   and go to another one just because  of those arbitrary rules. But again,   that's up to that property management company and  landlord. Um, that's something I've been saying   for a number of years and I hope more people  pay attention to that and understand that it is   um causing some people to not be able to have  housing even though they can afford it. They   just don't make that that amount of funding. But  I just wanted to highlight that's not a policy   of the council that's in the free market. I just  want to address something uh since this topic was   regarding homelessness on the agenda. Uh the park  and recreation operations uh is available online   for folks to see. Um homeless remediation. Uh in  2023, there were 289 work orders totaling 229,795. So far this year, there have been 375 work  orders and the total cost has been down to   $156,74 and that is due to having this now  inhouse rather than contracted out. Um again,   the topic was regarding homelessness on um  the public agenda item. This means that we   have two open spots for anyone who would like to  address the council on any other topic beyond the   scope of what we will be talking about during  council today. Are there any individuals who   would like to address the council? I see  none. Oh, I see someone right over here. Can you please state your name and your  address? My name is Sarah Cowling and   my address is 2116 South Senica number  302. I actually have an address now. Um, uh, I just wanted to speak on kind of building on  something I wanted to I guess I talked to Steve   from housing and the municipal ID has been it's  been a really good idea and it's helped a lot,   but there's been a couple things that I wanted  to address cuz I've got some friends like right   now like we're not going to be able to house all  the homeless by the winter, but it's going to be   cold. And so I kind of talked to some people out  there and one thing that I'm seeing is um a lot of   people have like menial warrants, things for like  missed court dates out there. And I just wanted   to ask for like maybe a recommendation as uh how  we would go about maybe changing some policies   that when people come in for like the municipal  IDs, if they have warrants for those things,   maybe setting out a court date. Um, I presented  something to you guys, I think in March,   talking about like how costefficient it  would actually be to in order for them   to set out court dates instead of have people  arrested, book them, house them just to come   out and get an ID because right now the easiest  thing they tell people is if you go to jail,   you can get things taken care of. You know, I  think that's a lot of wasted money and a lot of   wasted effort. And it also reduces the security  that these people have. You know, we have people   that don't want to get caught because they don't  want to sit in jail where, you know, you might   wait a month or two to go because you missed court  and being out there not having a phone or even   like a time something to remind you what time it  is. You know, I just there's a couple things. Um,   another thing that we're finding people are having  issues with with the I9 compliance is that um it's   not on the drop- down menu. So, some people are  still not taking those uh municipal IDs. Um,   that's basically what I have for right now on this  topic. So, I'm glad to see you guys. And I'm also   in the civic engagement academy and supposedly  next week you guys are supposed to be there at   least some. I hope to see all of you. Thank you  very much, Sarah. Thank you for participating in   the citizens engagement academy. Um, we really  want to have more individuals in our community   participate in that and I'm glad that you're now  housed and uh talked about the municipal ID. Um,   I do want to make mention that tomorrow, sorry,  Thursday, second chance Thursday is happening   um over at Evergreen Community Center and  Library. again this Thursday, October 23rd,   from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. That's where you can  have um resolutions regarding traffic uh notices   to appear as well as environmental warrants.  Uh so again, that's second chance Thursday,   this upcoming week. Council member Glasco, Sarah,  thank you for coming out today. Congratulations   on housing and congratulations on moving to  District 4. um I'll be your representative   and so if there's any way um I would love to sit  down oneonone and talk about some of the items you   just mentioned and so my email is d glasscock  atwitchaw.gov um reach out and I would love   to connect over coffee. Thank you council member  Hoheisel. Thank you mayor and thank you Sarah for   coming up. Um I'm wondering if our comm staff um I  just like to echo the mayor's uh sentiments as far   as second chance Thursday goes. I wonder if maybe  we could print flyers with those and have them up   there whenever we are doing IDs. Um, just that way  people are aware of when those are coming up. So,   more a comment to our comm staff to maybe  see if that's something we can jump on. We have room for one more individual  who would like to address the council. Thank you, Mayor Woo. I would  like consent agenda item number   eight pulled from the agenda for  separate discussion. Thank you. I see no other individuals as we had five  individuals speak for public agenda. Madame clerk,   can you please call the next item? Consent agenda  items 1 through 16. Council members, items to be   pulled. Council member Tuttle. Thank you. I  would like to pull item 15 and 16. Thank you. I will pull item number eight. With that, I will move to approve the consent  agenda without items 8, 15, and 16. Second   motion and a second. Any further discussion? I  see none. Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion passes. 70. We will go in numerical  order. We will start with consent agenda   item number eight. The subject is funding for  Crystal Prairie Lake Park phase 1 in council   member Maggie Ballard's district. I would like to  get a briefing regarding this um project and also   I would like to know if this project will have any  further phases. I know that the community has been   uh shown graphics and renderings regarding future  plans. I would like to know if that is happening.   Mayor, I'm going to ask um maybe Reggie Davidson  to talk about the park as a whole. I will tell   you the approved capital improvement program has  $2,250,000 over a 10-year period allocated for um   improvements at Crystal Prairie Lake Park. Reggie,  you can correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that   is for bike path extensions around the lake. None  of the development that is outlined in the master   plan other than bike trails is anticipated at this  time. At least that's my understanding. Reggie and Tim. So Tim's going to give a overview  of where we are with the process. Uh but   the master plan was done uh roughly about  10 years ago with Crystal Prairie Lake,   what's going to be the improvements and  the first phase of that is going to be   the trail and access to the park and the  parking lot along Hoover in that area. So,   we're in the process now getting ready to go  through our park master plan and part of that   is going to be looking at all of our assets  that we have and see how we move forward with   future development. So, that's kicking  off uh at the beginning of next month. Hello. Uh Tim Kellum's public works and utilities.  Uh so, a little bit of background on January 7th   uh earlier this year, city council approved  supplemental design agreement number three with   RDG. RDG was part of the team that has worked on  the master plan. Uh and they've been working here   in Witchaw for decades and on the project for  for many years. Uh so this was a a supplemental   design agreement to kickstart uh phase one  for improvements. I will note that there is   um public art as part of the project that'll be  coming back to uh city council at a later date.   So that's not part of this uh agenda item. Um so  analysis just kind of giving you a graphic on on   uh the project. This is pretty similar to what  was shown uh back in January. The parking lot has   uh moved uh to the north to help increase with  traffic flow. Uh made more sense to move it up   there. Otherwise, the uh project has stayed pretty  much exactly the same as what was presented to you   uh in January. Uh so kind of a brief overview.  It'll be a multi-use trail along Hoover Road.   There'll be a gravel parking lot. Gravel  parking lot is is proposed because if there   are future improvements, we're not building  some giant parking lot that we're going to   have to renovate or move later. So feel that  gravel parking lot would be a good idea to do   for phase one. There will be a fence around  the landfill. Again, that's to help separate   the park from the landfill. Right now, there's  no fence, so we need to put a fence in to help   uh protect the park and the landfill. And then the  multi-use trail will ultimately go down to um will   be along Hoover Road and will collect uh Crystal  Prairie Lake Park down with Cedric County Park. Um here is a graphic uh showing  the illustrious site plan. Um,   I will note that uh kind of going back one  slide here, the uh Crystal Prairie Lake will   uh or the trail along Hoover Road, there are a few  gaps in that project connecting from the Crystal   Prairie Lake Park down to Sedick County Park.  The renovation or um improvements along Hoover   Road will help create that connection.  So ultimately, there'll be a connection   um after these two projects are done connecting uh  these two parks. So, just a lesser site plan again   uh creating a connection. That's 45th Street uh  on the left there. So, that will um be able to   go into the park pretty smoothly. Um there will  be a trail that runs along Hoover Road. Um kind   of going down here a little bit further. Again, uh  trail will be inside the park moving it off of the   um off of Hoover Road. This allows some separation  and provides a safer environment for users.   And again, there'll be a seating node with future  art in that area. Again, that's not part of this   conversation now. We still need to go to design  council for approval. And then there will be a   pedestrian crossing across uh Hoover Road there  connecting, I believe that's Edgewater Development   to the park. So, creating a safe signalized uh  crossing um for pedestrians to go back and forth   between the community. Again, this will be going  down further. One of the biggest challenges with   the project is getting under K96. Uh so that's  kind of we've had been having conversations with   K DOT uh in order to do that. Um there'll be a  retaining wall under the bridge again trying to   make sure that we provide a safe environment  for all users and eventually we'll go down   and connect to the u the existing trail. You can  kind of see there at the lower part of the screen   uh that they'll connect again into the existing  pathway that's already there. Just a few photos   uh of kind of some examples again. You see there  on the left example of a trail under highway.   Pretty straightforward. Uh biggest thing is  just getting that retaining wall in to make   enough room for the trail. And then there'll be  the uh signalized crossing to to allow people   to get across Hoover Road. Just want to chat a  little bit about um the donation agreement. Um   there was a donation uh made to help uh kickstart  the project. Uh that was $1 million and again that   was part of the uh agenda item that came before  you on January 7th of this year. Um there is   um about $2.5 million in ongoing projects for  Crystal Prairie Lake Park. Again, part of that is   the $1 million donation to help start the project.  And then there's $50,000 allocated for our work.   Wanted to pull a few notable uh provisions  within the agreement. Um, again, that was the   uh donation there that uh notes the $1 million  that will be donated. And then here just kind of   want to describe exactly what park is agreeing to,  what the state is agreeing to. Um there is you can   see there on point B uh the minimum donation of  one to one uh over the aggregate of the term. We   would then be fulfilling that agreement by already  by allocating the money to do the project. So we   would be absolved of any required future matching  or anything along those lines. Uh with this did   want to point out here that the um these are  future funding. I will point out that there is   ongoing section. Uh I'll go back just one slide  for you or a few slides here. There is that 2.5   roughly. It runs out to about 2.6 if you add in  the art budget that was already approved. That's   already in the ongoing section. So, we're here  today to help initiate the remainder of those   funds that was uh allocated in 2000 or 2025. And  then here is the remaining funds uh allocated in   the CIP for Crystal Prairie Lake Park. There's no  associated grants or agreements or anything along   those lines with future funding. This is just uh  wanting to help push forward, continue to develop   the park. We know that it's a big interest of the  community uh to uh have improvements and get this   park activated. So that's what this is for. Um  so staff recommends initiating um $2,370,000   um with a budget of a little over 2.6 million. Um  the law department has reviewed and approved the   amending bonding resolution and has recommend  that city council approve the revised budget,   adopt the amending bonding resolution, and  authorize the necessary signatures. And I'm   happy to stand for any questions. Thank you.  questions from council members. Beginning with   council member Glasco. Thank you, mayor.  Can we go back to slide three real fast? Okay, just to confirm, when we're talking  about the blue area that says future phases,   those are bike lanes. Those are not phase  alleged uh development projects in these areas.   Uh correct. We don't know. You know, we have the  master plan again. that that's an old master plan   that uh is a great thing to kind of provide us  as we move forward. But no, I don't think we   have anything locked in place or anything along  those lines. I think Reggie mentioned having the   uh the systemwide park master plan will help us  determine kind of what's needed in the community.   If something should come up, that'd be great. But  no, there's no So that's not what these future   phases are. Correct. Yeah. If it if they're  bike plates, great. if there's something else   we're g want to get feedback from the public for  that. And then can we go to slide 12 real fast? So this this will work. Um with the second one,  the future CIP funding is not associated with   any grants or agreements. Um our except or our  accepting of the donation doesn't stipulate or   require anything beyond the economic match.  Correct. Correct. We would by I guess moving   forward and doing the project for this first  phase, we would fulfill the agreement of the   matching requirements. There's no subsequent  things we have to fill. Correct. You're correct.   Thank you, Council Member Hoheisle. Thank you,  Mayor. Um, Council Member Glascock just answered   one of my questions here. Uh, can we go back  to slide 10, please? Okay. So essentially,   we are we obligated to do 200,000 a year or if  we decide not to do 200,000 a year, um what does   that agreement look like? Does that just simply  mean that the donation wouldn't come in in that   amount? So if it's 800,000, would it just be  matched up to 800,000? Um I believe right now   we have um the $1 million to help get through the  project. I'm not sure exactly uh the exact timing   of all the funds that have been paid. I'm not sure  if uh what Mr. Russell's numbers are on that yet,   but I do know that obligated to provide that $1  million. Okay. And he did donate in 24. Correct.   I believe so. Yes. Okay. And that was before  we had the agreement signed. Correct. Okay. So,   we brought it. Wait a second. Uh no, I believe  we do have Yeah, I guess that would be from 23 to   27. So, yes. Okay. And 25 is when the agreement  January 25 came to us. That'd be correct. Yes.   Okay. Was there any violation of policy in that  or as far as um locking in an agreement before it   comes to council? Uh I'm not sure. I have to ask  the city manager or law to help with that one. council member. Uh, no, we had we had  that money um in an account and if the   council had not approved the project, we  would have returned the funding. Okay. So,   it had not been spent it has not been spent by  the city at this point. Okay. So, that would   have just been that would have just canceled  the contract if we had not approved it. Well,   there was no contract to cancel if you had not  approved it, right? Okay. I I see. Um, and just   a bit more history about this project. It was  a $25 million project a couple of years ago and   we took that money from the CIP and spent it on  fire stations if I remember correctly. I I think   some funds may have been used for the ballpark  as well. I don't recall exactly what where and   where all those went. Okay. Yeah. Um just wanting  to just put that out there to the public as well   that it was a $25 million project and now it's 2.5  million. So, I appreciate that. Thank you, Mayor.   City Manager, my recollection is a portion of the  funding was uh used for the uh baseball stadium. Council member Ballard. Thank you, Mayor. I was just going to ask Bob  to clarify that there was $5 million in the CIP   that was pulled for the uh ball stadium. Thank  you. Can I go back to the map one more time? there. Thank you. Again, the proposal that came  forward 10 years ago is not the same proposal   that is here before us in 2025. Is that correct?  In the master plan, there was always a trail along   Hoover Road. This is just a portion of that. So um  guess this would be a part of the master plan but   the big ideas that were part of the master plan  um they have not come to fruition and they're not   uh planned or anything beyond them staying in the  master plan. I will ask that question to the city   manager. What are beyond our commitment to just  make sure that there is a connection between   Cedric County Park and Crystal Prairie Park.  Do we have any other commitments that we have?   um outstanding with this person who is donating a  portion of the dollars? No, mayor, we do not. And   and in fact, I think the future of this park  will be determined by the park master plan   update. And I know that the community has seen  u renderings of uh the proposal of this master   plan for this park. Can you tell us how likely  that actually is going to come to fruition? Well,   until the council considers uh the new master plan  or the park plan, it's hard for me to answer that.   The council when it diverted money to the baseball  stadium at that time, they stated their intent not   to move forward with the original master plan. Um  but that can always change with every council and   then when a new plan comes forward, um it'll be  up to the council to make a decision on what they   would like to do. Um I and I can't guess where  we'll be after, you know, during that process.   And again, this will just be a 10-foot uh  multi-use sidewalk that can have bicyclists,   scooters, individuals walking, and it  will connect the final piece between   Cedric County Park and Crystal Prairie Park.  Is that correct? Uh yes, in conjunction with   the uh Hoover Road project. So those two tied  together will help make this total connection.   Thank you, Council Member Glasco. One last  question. The item we approved in consent,   item 4A, is part of this contiguous path that's  going to connect this project, the existing path,   and then uh the project approved in 4A will  be the final connector from Central County   Park all the way. Correct. U I'm not sure what  Yeah, I'm looking at a map that may show that Paul Councilman Public Works and Utilities.  Yes, that will connect the path. That is a   Hoover Road project that is uh scheduled  to begin construction in 2026 from 21st   Street to 29th Street. Okay. Thank  you. I see no further questions for   staff. Thank you. We will now open it up  for public comment regarding this item. Thank you, Mayor Woo. Um, Celeste,  West Witchaw, longtime Witchaw native.   The reason why I bring this up, and I  apologize to everybody who's waiting,   is what bothers me about this whole situation  is we accepted donations from a local developer,   Jay Russell, two of $200,000 in 2024 before we  had any kind of agreement with city council. And   there is a policy, I'm just not able to pull it up  right now. I think it's an administrative rag that   discusses accepting money ahead of your approval  of accepting that money. He also, you know,   as a local developer, has been advertising Crystal  Lake on his subdivisions for years now. Edgewater   advertises the lake. If you go to his website,  he's been advertising Crystal Prairie Lake Park   for years in the hopes that his donations would  spur you to do this development out there. And it   says phase one. So if you say phase one, that  leads me to believe that we could be going on   to phase two and phase three. Not that we are,  but it could lead to the $9.5 million he wants   for Crystal Lake Prairie development. And that was  in the original master plan. So, I guess what I'm   here to say is I know he makes compa campaign  contributions and I'm not going to go there,   but my concern is when you accept money from  developers a year ahead of having an agreement,   you're going down a shady path with our taxpayer  money. So, thank you for allowing me to pull this   agenda. I won't go on any longer, but I'm  concerned it's phase one. What is phase two   going to cost us? And that's why I'm bringing  this to your attention and I will find that   administrative regulation and send it to Bob when  I get back to the office. Thank you. Thank you,   Celeste. Council member Glascock. Mayor, one quick  question to Bob just to solidify the fact any   phase two, any phase three beyond what we passed  today would have to come back to this body to be   approved and have some public comment. On multiple  occasions to start off with, it has to be in the   uh park plan. Second, it needs to be in the  CIP and actually a third time then you have   to approve the project. So, a lot of action and  review by the council and the public. Okay. Thank   you. And one more clarifying question. Since  there were dollars allocated in the CIP in 28,   30, 32, and 34 those are for what phases or  what will those dollars be used for? Mayor,   right now those are placeholders. Um, if you were  to ask me today, I would say probably for bike   path extensions, but the projects had there are no  projects that have been designed and the council   actually would have to approve those projects  before they go forward. And I and I said before,   I think the park master plan will determine  direction for the park going forward. And again,   that park master plan will begin next month. So,  we will have lots of opportunities for community   to be engaged in the park master plan process as  we're wanting to be cognizant that we have over   120 parks. Um, and we want to be responsible  with the assets we currently have and think   forward with what to do with our park system as a  whole. So, again, this will only be for phase one.   uh even if there were other phases beyond today,  they would still have to come back to the council   for public comment. Is that correct, city  manager? That is correct, Mayor. Thank you   very much. Council member Hohheisle. Thank  you, Mayor. Uh Miss Ret, um could you please   also send that email to the rest of us as well  as soon as you find that administrator, right?   All right. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. Anyone  else from the community who would like to speak? Yes, I'm Craig Gable, 150 East 44th Street South.  And I didn't come here to speak on this issue,   but it came up. Um, any I just wanted to point out  another thing. If you, and I'm taking this picture   from my head, whatnot. There's no housing to  the east because we've got the landfill. There's   no housing to the north and whatnot. There's no  housing to the south because the highways there.   Now, we're going to make some kind of crossing  thing, but I don't remember much housing over   there. So basically this park and this expansion  and this what we're talking about today is going   to have one beneficiary Jay Russell and his one  community or multiple communities. He's building   it to the west of it and it just doesn't seem  quite set quite right. You know what I mean? When   was the last time we built a spent $2.5 million  on a park in South Witchah? Long time not. So,   and I said there would be beneficiaries all  the way around because there are no areas   where there's land. Well, maybe the sewer plant  might keep keep it, but you know what I mean? You   there's and then the maintenance for years. These  are just the beginning numbers. What is it cost to   maintain a park? Especially when you build it up  so that it's made for daily use for people getting   in there and use it. You've got to mow everything  right down at the water. You've got to keep it up   and stuff like that. And we're having a hard time  with that. I go to Watson Park and it's covered in   trash. It's not being taken care of. It's eroding  into the ponds and stuff like that. Let's spend   the money on the assets we already have instead  of expand them out for a single beneficiary. Council member Hoheisle. Thank you, Mayor. Uh  thank you, Mr. Gable. A couple of points. One,   we do have to work on uh connectiveness throughout  our community. So, it's not just the beneficiary   of somebody nearby, but it's the beneficiary of  anybody on the north side or west side who wants   to get from one part of town to another. Uh,  I'm glad you brought up uh spending on parks   down south. I guess you're not familiar with  the $5 million we spent recently on Clap Park.   Uh built a playground for kids with disabilities.  So, it's really neat. I encourage you to come out   and check it out. There's a big boom. You can  take a kid up on a wheelchair. They can go to   the top of a slide, go down the slide. zip lines  for kids on wheelchairs, a little section for kids   with hearing disabilities to actually be able to  talk to other kids as well. Uh like a little sign   language post. And as far as the sewage treatment  plant goes, yeah, I'm hopeful that after the major   odor control upgrades that we have going on right  now, that should be complete this time next year,   that there will be a lot more room for development  down south, both with anemities and with housing   as well. So, I appreciate your opinions on  this, sir. I just wanted to offer a little more   background as far as the things we do have going  on down south. Council member Glascon. Thank you,   Mayor M. Greyel. Thank you for speaking.  I'll also kind of tack on to what Councilman   Hohisel said. We've invested in the last couple  years more than $1.8 million Pony Prairie Park   a little bit further southwest. In addition,  we just approved the Oage Park Fitness Court,   which will be the second in the community. Uh  the other one is over in district 6 in Maggie's   district. We spent more than 130,000 for an  outdoor fitness center that's currently be   constructed. It should open in the I believe it's  the second quarter of 2025. Reggie could probably   correct me if I'm wrong. And uh made significant  investments to the basketball court there as well   and then looking at some investments. Uh we're  working on an RFP and a partnership at South   Lakes as well to activate South Lakes uh with  some potential um uh outside organizations as   well. So there is development happening in a  lot of the parks in South Witchaw and Clap is a   great facility and a a great example of that too.  Any further public comment regarding this item? Richard Hill, 4555 South Laura. Is the area  we're talking about on this? Is that county   or is that city? If it's county, let the county  deal with it. If it's city, we need to examine   where the money is going. But if you're taking  my city money and putting it in the county, even   though it may end up doing good, I don't trust  Jay Russell. That's all I've got. City manager,   this city manager, this is city property. Is this  correct? That is correct, mayor. Thank you. Any   further public comment regarding this item? I  see none. I want to say thank you to Celeste,   to Mr. Gable, and Mr. Hill for speaking during  public comment regarding this item. I was the   one that pulled this item. Um, and again,  it's only for phase one, and I see no further   uh commitments regarding phase two. So, I am  going to move that this item uh get approved with   the revised budget, adopt the amending bonding  resolution, and authorize necessary signatures.   Council member Ballard. Thank you. Since this is  in my district, I have a couple um comments to   share. The beneficiaries of this project or are  all of the people that live in the community.   There are several HOAs in the area. We talk about  um providing a walkable, ridable community almost   every week somehow on council. So um I'm excited  for this project and for all of the residents that   live in the area and I'll second your motion.  Thank you, Council Member Ballard. We have a   motion and a second. Any further discussion? I  see none. Madame Clerk, please open the role. Motion passes 70. Madame clerk, please call  sorry. Coun consent agenda item number 15. Council member Tuttle. Thank you.  Due to a conflict of interest,   I will be abstaining from this vote. Any questions for staff regarding this item? I  see none. This gets public comment. Would anyone   like to comment on Hangar Dynamics Jabara 2020  uh LLC? I see none. I'll bring it back to the   bench. I move to approve the agreement and  authorize the necessary signatures. Second.   Motion and a second. Any further discussion? I  see none. Madame clerk, please open the role. I. All those in favor say I. I. All  those opposed, same sign. All those   who abstain? I. Motion passes 60 with one  abstension. Consent agenda item number 16. Council member Tuttle. Thank you.  Due to a conflict of interest,   I will be abstaining from this vote. Any  questions for staff regarding this item? Again,   this item is Witchah State University, Campus of  Applied Science and Technology recognition. I see   none. We will open it up for public comment.  I see none. I'll bring it back to the bench.   I move that the Witchaw Airport Authority  approve the recognition, adornment, consent,   and a stuple agreement and the memorandum of lease  and authorized the necessary signatures. Second   motion and a second. Any further discussion? I  see none. Madame clerk, please open the role.   Motion passes. 60 with one abstension.  Madame clerk, please call the next item.   Board of Bids and Contracts  dated October 20th, 2025. Good morning, Mayor, City Council. Josh  Lber, Department of Finance. I've never   seen so many members of the public interested  in bids today, so I'm excited to see that.   Um, for engineering, we have the water main  extension from Via Christy Street to Teresa   Secondary Feed for Noak Construction  Company Incorporated for $85,341.75. We have the water distribution  system to serve Clear Creek   third and fourth edition phase 8 for me  Construction Incorporated for $105,67. We have the sanitary sewer to serve  Clear Creek fourth edition phase 8   for Mis Construction Incorporated for $119,469.60. We have the downtown two-way street  conversion concrete street repair   phase 4 for Rostston Construction LLC  as the lowest responsive bidder for   $120,100 awarded from their  original bid of $114,332. This is how to become a vendor with the  city of Witchah. This is our purchasing   calendar of small business resource partner  events and items that will be occurring. Um,   specifically on 1024 in Topeka, we have  our reverse vendor fair for professional   association. Encourage anybody that wants to  attend. We have our open public opportunities   out on the street today and I'd be  happy to try to answer any of your   questions and recommend your approval.  Thank you, Josh. Questions for staff?   I see none. This does not get public comment.  So I will move to approve the board of bids and   contracts dated October 20th, 2025. Second motion  and a second. Any further discussion? I see none.   Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion passes.  70. Madame clerk, please call the next item. Bear with me. It's a long one. A charter  ordinance repealing charter ordinance   number 159 pertaining to judges of the  municipal court by the addition of the   position of judge of the neighborhood court.  A charter ordinance amending sections 2 and   11 of charter ordinance number 223 pertaining  to judges of the Witchaw Municipal Court. An   ordinance repealing section 104150 of the code  of the city pertaining to the establishment   of the neighborhood court. An ordinance suns  setting title 801 and title 2004 of the code   of the city of Witchah repealing sections  applicable to property maintenance. An   ordinance creating chapter 2005 adopting the  international property maintenance code with   amendments. An ordinance reinstating the board  of codes standards and appeals. An ordinance   adopting a procedure for the acceptance of fire  insurance proceeds. an ordinance amending the   city's non-discrimination ordinance to include  source of income and an ordinance chapter 2006   requiring registration of rental units with  property maintenance violations. [Music] Honorable mayor, members of council, Troy  Anderson, assistant city manager. Um there's   a lot to unpack here. So uh I'll try to go over  this at a really really high level. But again at   any point in time if you have any questions,  comments, concerns, feel free to jump in. So   first and foremost, a little bit about how we  got to where we are today. Right? This has been   a conversation that's been got been ongoing  for several years now. Uh more specifically,   we can kind of point back to August 2023. um  staff, particularly myself, stood here in front of   city council and presented to city council. Um a  little bit of background on property owner rights,   but also property owner responsibilities and then  the enforcement process uh particularly as it   relates to property maintenance codes. Uh at that  point in time, staff was directed to review the   city's existing property maintenance codes, our  existing policies and procedures and performance   measures. And we at that point in time promised  to come back to you all with a recommendation.   As part of that conversation, we also introduced  the idea of adoption of the international property   maintenance code. So fast forward to earlier  this year uh specifically June 3rd, 2025,   uh we stood in front of you again with some of  those recommendations, right? Um we provided   again a high-level overview at that point in time  of how we arrived at where we are at that point in   time. We started diving into uh the existing codes  and ordinances a recommendation to consider the   international property maintenance code and then  we even walked through sort of a little bit of   chapter and verse of how that property maintenance  code works. Um as well as kind of threw out some   recommendations. uh but also at the same time we  asked for your feedback on a couple of items and   and a couple of issues as it relates to property  maintenance codes and enforcement. Uh so following   that we went out to um before I go on we went  out to uh the various district advisory boards   um through the course of uh July, August,  September. We uh took that presentation out to   all the district advisory boards also got feedback  from the community in that context and are coming   back to you um with those recommendations today.  During that conversation back in June, however,   though, there were also conversations  around including a source of income   um as a discriminary uh protected class. Um I'm  just going to read this so I don't misrepresent   this. A source of income discrimination refers  to the practice of denying housing or imposing   different terms on applicants based on the  lawful source of funds used to pay rent.   Commonly affected sources include housing choice  vouchers, social security disability v benefits,   veterans benefits, child support and other  public or private assistance during that   time period. Uh there were also discussions  around rental registry uh creating a again a   formal record of rental properties uh helping  municipalities oversee rental housing quality   and enforce property maintenance codes. Um, there  were a couple of different iterations of where a   a landlord registry or a a rental property  registry even so far as inspections might   uh go. And so based on all of the conversations  we've had, feedback we had uh were able to kind   of garner the drafts that are before you today  are are simply that drafts. is the first turn at   uh what what a community might use to  start to create a rental property registry. I'm going to go back and touch on that point the  last one too also that there is uh some language   in there about a um having a point of contact for  outofstate or out of region landlords. Okay. So   then this kind of dives into the documents  that have been put in front of you. Uh more   specifically as it relates to kind of the first  trunch uh the uh property maintenance code and the   adoption of an international property maintenance  code. There was an ordinance drafted creating   chapter 20.05 adopting the international property  maintenance code and then thereafter a handful   of local amendments. um that code would become  effective as drafted uh January 1, 2026. Um there   are also amendments to the IPMC that were drafted  to bring that code into compliance with Kansas   statutes, specifically the nuisance abatement  procedures, condemnation proceedings, and unsafe   structure removal. We also included amendments  to create an exception process. Uh owners may   request an administrative exception through the  board of code standards and appeals. Uh again,   this allows an opportunity for property owners and  homeowners to claim economic or other hardships. Along those same lines, uh an ordinance  was drafted specifically to repeal section   1.04.150 of the city municipal code establishing  neighborhood court. Um, there are also two charter   ordinances in your packet that were drafted to  repeal charter ordinance 159, which established   the position of a neighborhood court judge and  sections 2 and 11 of charter ordinance 223. Additionally, uh, an ordinance was drafted suns  setting existing property maintenance codes in   chapters 8.01 and 20.04 4 with an effective date  of December 31, 2026. I'm going to pause there and   just make sure that everybody understands right  that there's an overlap. Those are not kind of   mis represented dates. There's an overlap.  So, as we continue to transition from our   existing codes and ordinances, properties that  may be going through the abatement uh process or   the violation process today, uh there will be an  overlap between the existing property maintenance   codes. We'll continue to run through December  31, 2026, and then the new international property   maintenance codes can go into effect January 1,  2026. There'll be about a year overlap where we   can start to transition again, develop solid  policies, efficient processes and procedures   for proper enforcement without compromising  our ability to enforce either the rules and   regulations we have on the books today or the  new rules and regulations that we're proposing. Additionally, uh during the IPMC ordinance  amendment process, it was discovered that   uh there were two ordinances that were repealed  previously during the adoption of the latest   version of the building code. Uh so we're coming  back and uh introducing ordinances to reinstate   the board of code standards and appeals and a  procedure to accept fire insurance proceeds. So that's kind of the first trunch of uh and  I'll get to the recommendations here in just a   minute on property maintenance codes as it relates  specifically to kind of income discrimination. An   ordinance was drafted to amend section 2.0660 of  the non-discrimination ordinance to also include   source of income as a protected class which would  include lawful income from work, legal benefits,   and public assistance. And again, I'm just going  to continue to read this just to make sure that I   don't misrepresent any of this. The amendments  would clarify in city code section 2.060 that   the prohibition on source of income discrimination  would also not limit the authority of landlords to   participate in public rental assistance programs,  would not prevent real estate transactions   in cash, and will not otherwise affect the  legal obligations of landlords and tenants.   Lastly, um, is the ordinance that was drafted to  create chapter 18.30 to require owners of property   which have two or more housing, building, or other  environmental code violations within a 12-month   period to have to register such property with  the director of the metropolitan area building   construction department. Again, there will be a  $50 registration fee. It's valid for one year.   Property will remain registered for a period of  two years. After the latest code violation is   corrected or adjudicated, any property owned by  an individual or corporation located within 60 mi   outside of city limits must have that that locally  designated agent. Um, we touched on that a little   bit ago. With that being said, there is no impact  to the general fund contemplated at this time.   law department's reviewed and approved  the ordinances to form. Okay. So again,   our recommendation is that you consider this in  sort of three parts or in three tanches. The first   one is as it relates to property maintenance  codes and sort of environmental court action.   Number one, we would recommend city council place  one, the charter ordinance repealing charter   ordinance number 159 pertaining to judges of the  municipal court by the addition of the position   of judge neighborhood court. Number two, the  charter ordinance amending section 2 and 11 of   charter ordinance number 223 pertaining to judges  of the Witchaw Municipal Court. Number three, the   ordinance repealing section 1.04.150 pertaining  to the establishment of the neighborhood court.   Number four, the ordinance suns setting title  8.01 and title 20.04 of the code of the city of   Witchaw repealing sections applicable to  property maintenance codes. Number five,   the ordinance adopting the international property  maintenance code with amendments. Number six,   the ordinance reinstating the board of  code standards and appeals. And seven,   the ordinance adopting a procedure for acceptance  of fire insurance proceeds, placing all of those   on first reading and authorizing the necessary  signatures. Again, we want to just pause just   a minute and make sure that knowing and  understand those are charter ordinances.   They do require a supermajority vote. I'm  sorry I missed that. Could you read that again? The second action item that we would recommend  that you all uh consider today uh is to place the   ordinance amending the city's non-discrimination  ordinance to include source of income on first   reading. Authorize the necessary signatures. And  then the third action that we would recommend you   all consider here today is to place the ordinance  requiring registration of rental units with   property maintenance violations on first reading.  authorize the necessary signatures. And with that   being said, I'll stand for questions. Uh our our  humble assistant city attorney, Sharon Draft,   was also instrumental in all of this. Would be  more than happy to answer any questions. And also,   we wouldn't be standing here today without folks  from uh project management. Denise Peters and her   team did an amazing job uh of bringing all this  together. So, I just wanted to take two minutes   and just acknowledge and thank everybody for  bringing all this to fruition. Thank you,   Troy. We'll begin with Council Member Ho Heisel.  Thank you, Mayor. Um, I have a feeling there's   going to be more questions coming along in  the following discussion. Uh, just a few   right here. Um, how many international codes do  we already have in play through our building and   inspections department? I I'd have to go back  my, if I had to say off the top of my head,   I think sixish. I mean, international building  code, residential code, um, existing building   code, um, probably mechanical code, uh, fire  code, there might be one or two others, but   probably about a half dozen of the international  code series. Okay. When we talk about um having   point of contact for people who live more than  60 mi outside of the city limit, um I know one   thing that we had looked and I think most people  here would agree. Um there's a big problem with   uh outofstate owners. Um that was something  that I looked at when I first got on council   and learned there's a whole not a whole lot we can  do about it because of uh constitutional issues,   the interstate commerce clause. Um so um if we  have that requirement for point of um management   is that something that we're confident passes  uh the constitutional muster there. I'm going   to defer to legal on constitutionality under  under the current ordinance as it's stated.   Yes. Um the the registered agent isn't required  unless there has been a policy violation. So there   would be a rational basis to require that extra um  enforcement or extra information from the property   owner. Um about 12 to 14 um cities around uh  Kansas have similar type registration ordinances   and most of them have the similar type of  provision. Okay. Thank you. Um can you go through   this process now? like if you get a violation,  currently we give you 30 days to to fix any   violation, whether it's tall grass and weeds or  um aesthetic violations or anything like that. Um   if this passes, what would that process look like?  And I understand we're still kind of developing uh   some of that. That's that gap year to come up with  the policy, but um what are the general ideas now   as far as how would that go? So at a really high  level, generally speaking, yes. Um if there is a   violation uh that is identified, a property owner  is giving a given a period of time to abate that   violation, right? Um it depends on the violation  type, right? Uh some violations may only require   a couple of days to abate. Other violations  may require perhaps several months to abate,   right? And so, uh, there's always going to be a  period of, um, opportunity to comply with sort   of self performing abatement of that violation.  uh that doesn't change in this uh what this and   you may may recall back in our June conversation  right where we went through uh how kind of the   property maintenance code and how shifting  from environmental court uh to other court   models right is this is an opportunity to um sort  of reimagine sort of re retool our enforcement to   become slightly more assertive Right. Uh a lot of  the uh processes and procedures that we have in   place today are are uh as they were intentionally  designed, right, to continue to work with property   owners, continue to work with property owners to  the point where we may not ever see improvements   ever completed, right? And so some of the feedback  that we've heard over the years is a want or a   desire to become slightly more conservative. And  that's what this process does is provides policies   and procedure leads to policies and procedures  that allow us to be a little bit more assertive   in getting these property maintenance violations  corrected. Right. We have an 85% compliance rate,   voluntary compliance rate when people  get the fix it. So, I just want to make   sure correct that's still in here. That's still  possible. We don't want to crack down on people,   especially little old grandma who has no means to  mow her lawn. making sure that we give that period   for people to address and fix the issue. It's the  15% the problem properties that come up over and   over and over again and continue to get delay and  delay and delay and uh to the negativity of the   surrounding areas. Um so uh another question um  the two code violations that would trigger this   um is that per property is that per um ownership  group? Um yeah, just a little clarification on   that. That's going to be per dwelling unit as  that is um defined in the in the code which is   currently a building or a portion of a building.  So that would be per unit. Um and as Troy and I   have discussed, this is a draft. It can be amended  and changed however the council wants to after   this conversation. Um I was asked to come up  with options and this was one of the options   that has been moved forward. Okay. So two proper  or two violations per unit per year within a   12-month period. Within a 12-month period. Um and  currently I know one bone of contention is that   it does not require a conviction. Again, you can  require conviction. If you required a conviction,   I would recommend that you increase the amount of  the look back time. Um because by the time it goes   through the court process. Yeah. It you're  you're not going to be able to get too many   uh violations through the entire system within  a 12-month period depending upon the violation.   Thank you, Council Member Glascott. Thank you,  Mayor Troy. I'm going to do rapid fire questions   because I have this many questions for you and I'm  going to do round questions of you, take a break,   and then I'll do round of questions for Sally as  well. Uh first off, um I'll start with uh really   the code as well. When we're talking about um  the code official could enter or inspect your   property when they whenever they have reasonable  cause, would this be a the same standards as a   criminal search warrant or would this be different  standards than a criminal search warrant? So,   there's two ways in which uh a a code enforcement  officer uh could enter into a property and inspect   for a violation. Uh either one, with the property  owner's permission, or two, they would have to go   through the administrative search warrant process.  That's the same process that exists today. We're   not suggesting making any changes to that process.  you'd have to go make sort of a case to a judge   and obtain an administrative search warrant  in order to get into a property to confirm   or deny a violation exists. Okay. The standard  is slightly less in an administrative case than   a criminal case. Um you still do have to show a  level of probable cause. A warrant would have to   be approved by a district court judge. Municipal  court judges don't have the authority to approve   any sort of a warrant. And I again know there's  been allegations made that this is a terrible,   horrible thing. All of those provisions are  already in our code. Um, title 20.04.090 has   pretty much mirrored what is in this ordinance  regarding um authority to entry and authority to   entry is not a right to entry. Um, the officers  are still going to have to comply with all of   the legal requirements for search and seizure  under the fourth amendment. Okay. When we talk   about source of income includes child support also  includes tips. How are we verifying tip income?   How would a landlord verify that? So we should  probably talk a little bit about just kind of   what the nondiscrimination ordinance talks about.  Right? It becomes a scenario and a situation by   which and I'm going to tread lightly here until my  attorney steps in and corrects me. Right? But the   relationship between either an existing landlord  or a potential landlord and a existing tenant or   a potential tenant is that if for whatever reason  that tenant existing or or considered feels as   though their their renewal or their um denial of a  lease agreement is a result of a income or income   discrimination, then that is a cause for that  tenant to then sort of file a a non-discrimination   claim and then there's an investigation. If  there's sufficient evidence to believe that   there's an invest then it goes through the entire  non-discrimination process. There's nobody doing   sort of oversight so to speak of that landlord  tenant transaction. And it's only in those cases   where a tenant again either existing or considered  feels as though they were they were denied a lease   agreement for income an income discrimination.  Would they be able to file a claim and then it   goes through the process just like any of the  other discrimination? How many cases have we had   go through the INDO process so far? In regards to  income discrimination in regards to anything. Oh,   I don't have that information. I I believe that  15 and none of them have been found to be none   of them have been found. Okay. Yeah. Have been  upheld. So when we look at um regarding the rental   registry, does this include let's say trivial or  administrative citations? Is there any difference   between let's say a landlord knowingly having  a facility that has mold in it actively growing   versus a lawn that is too long? Is there any  difference in terms of citations that is mentioned   in this ordinance or are both of those treated the  same? I'm going to venture to say a violation is a   violation's a violation. So there's no difference  if somebody knowingly has mold versus just a   long yard currently. No. And I need to clarify  something. None of these offenses are required   in intent. They're all strict liability offenses.  They've always been strict liability offenses.   So whether I intentionally let the mold grow or  whether I just didn't care and didn't know, um   there's no distinction. Currently, as the registry  uh ordinance is written, it would be any type   of violation. Again, that can be significantly  narrowed. If the council wants it to to um exclude   the I'm going to say exterior, the nuisance type,  the cars, the weeds. um if if it wants to be   limited to interior type violations and structural  type violations that that's something that could   be easily done through this discussion process and  it's not a conviction correct currently is not a   conviction but again that could be changed but I  would recommend that your time frame be extended   okay and if I could chime in for just a minute too  right simply because the code enforcement officer   goes out to inspect the property and identifies  a violation We're also not necessarily suggesting   that have they been given an opportunity to abate  that violation that it would then require this   registration. Right? There's always going to be  that opportunity for that property owner to abate   that v violation voluntarily. Okay. I may let you  off the hook now. I'll have other questions for   Sally in a minute. Thank you, Council Member  Johnson. Thanks, Mayor. Um, first, thank you,   Troy. There's a lot of people to thank and Sally  and the team and council member Hohisel and Becca   and Tasha and Becca or um Brooke just a lot of  work has been done. Appreciate that over the   years. Um just two quick questions for you.  Um you answered one or Sharon answered one,   but my first one there was some talk about  the administrative process. got a few emails   and uh even a couple phone calls yesterday that  complained that MABCD would write a violation.   MABCD then hears an appeal to that, but there was  no mentioned of the board of code standards and   appeals. Could you walk through maybe what that  process would look like as written today? Yeah,   so um metropolitan area building and construction  department um is different than the building code   standard of appeals, right? I just want  to make sure that those are two different   groups. Um they they have overlapping sort of  uh interests, right, in building code standards,   right? But at the same time, um probably giving  you too much information here, but uh the entire   international city uh international code council  in every volume there's a provision that addresses   building board of appeals, right? And what that is  is it specifically lays out where that body who is   members appointed by you all governing body right  to serve in that role and that responsibility to   hear cases in which they uh an individual feels as  though the building official is incorrect in their   interpretation or application of the particular  code section. number one. Or number two,   uh it's usually a little more nuanced in that  there may be new technology that exists usually   or an alternative means of compliance with a  building code provision, right, that maybe hasn't   been adopted or considered by the international  code council that the building code standard of   appeals could hear those cases, right, and rule  separately from the building official and in   this case, MABCD. Those are the two that sort of  international code council lays out for this body.   The third role that this body is is in the code  sort of adoption recommendation process. Right? So   this body makes recommendations around what codes  could should be adopted, local amendments, so on   and so forth with which ultimately come to you  all for adoption. The way this has been crafted,   right, that this body could would then sort of  take on this fourth role and responsibility of   hearing those appeals or those exceptions, right?  where uh we talked about hardship or economic   hardship, right? An individual who feels as though  maybe again one the code enforcement officer's   interpretation of the codes or ordinances is is  wrong or or inaccurately applied. Maybe there's   a different way of complying. Um maybe it's an a  hardship. It would be that body that would then   hear that appeal that would stay any proceedings  or process. Depending on how that body uh rules,   we would then sort of pick up and and make a  determination on whether or not that satisfies   abatement of the violation or otherwise or  whether or not we need to continue through   the the prosecution of that. And then for  what what's in our packets now, the board of   code standards and appeals would be folks with a  specific expertise that would be appointed. That's   correct. Okay. Can can I correct something  because it's been misinterpreted? I think   um the current um ordinance creating 1810  essentially puts back in place what was there   before regarding the appointment of the board  of code standard and appeals. There's been some   literature that those are all city appointments  and that's not correct. I mean the the the   composition of the board has not been changed by  any of the proposed ordinances. Um the proposed   ordinance brings back the code of standards and  appeals because sections were deleted. Um it   also to add this exception process is going to  require some ratification by Seduit County. um   which is why that particular ordinance is written  in the manner that it is is that it goes effective   on January 1 subject to their ratification of  adding this exception process onto the board of   code standards responsibilities. Okay. Uh my other  question also have to thank Chris and Kayn. Um I'm   pretty sure I got on you guys' nerves for a little  bit. Um, when we look at the number of violations,   I know right now it just says two and and there  was a comment made about potentially looking at   um, when you look at the registry. Um, I know  there was some concern from some property   owners and landlords I heard from yesterday about  having external violations count towards that. Uh,   Sharon did say we could increase that number if we  wanted to. I think back to um and rest in peace to   Miss Overton, she would always complain about five  to 10 maybe specific properties and it was always   an external thing. Our staff always knew that  these properties were probably going to come up   every year and they normally did like clockwork.  So it would we would be able to increase that   number for external. Therefore, we're dealing  with life and safety, but also dealing with   some of those outside issues that we continue  to hear about from neighborhood presidents. So,   it I guess that would be a discussion for later  after we hear from the public. But I I do think   with every change that we've made, we were also  looking to address some of those issues cuz there   are specific properties that we know of that  will continue to have tall grass and weeds or   some type of blight or some form of dumping on  it. And it's year after year. And as you said,   Troy, going through environmental court sometimes  gets resolution, but often times we also don't   see resolution. So I think it's definitely worth  considering as we're going to hear from the public   what that looks like. Um either two or more what  that what what may happen, but again addressing   some of the more serious issues that we've seen.  [Music] Council member Ho Heisel. Thank you,   Mayor. Uh two quick questions. One was spurred by  council member GlassCox's uh question. Um we said   that there were two as an administrative warrant  and then also invited in by the property owner as   far as being able to get inside to do inspections.  Um does the tenant inviting us is that part of   the administrative warrant or is that separate?  No. A a tenant has a response or has the ability   um to have a code inspector enter the premises.  Um they're they're it's their lease. Um they can   control who comes in and out. Um and we'll just  leave it there. Okay. So that's essentially the   same as the property owner. Yes. Okay. I just  wanted to make sure that that was clear as well.   Uh the second there had been some dialogue going  around that we were considering uh rental caps.   Is that part of this at all? Rental caps. Uh  caps on rent. Oh. Oh, no. That is not included   in any of this. Okay. So, that's an untruth  that's out there. No. Okay. Thank you. Council   member Glass. Thank you, Mayor. Back for round  two, but this time I have questions for Sally. Hello, Sally. Good morning. Sally staying with  the Housing and Community Services Department.   Thank you. This actually might be for legal or  you. Maybe one of these can answer it. I was   reviewing the notes from um stakeholder meetings  that Councilman Johnson had sent out. One of the   notes said there's not a landlord registry. It's  illegal for city governments to have a landlord   registry. Lawrence and another city did it and the  legislature banned it. Can I mean maybe Councilman   Johnson can speak to what was in his notes or  legal could speak to what was in the notes?   I can probably answer that. Um there there are  two two two things that work. There is a state   statute which bans rental registries which require  interior inspections. Um nothing that we is before   you today is talking about an interior inspection.  Does section 8 require an interior inspection? Yes, it does. So those things  would actually conflict. Correct.   We we we can't have a city ordinance that requires  annual or interior inspections from an ordinance   standpoint. Now, now the state can't overrule  a federal program because of of of supremacy   issues. So section 8 and the federal government  could certainly require inspections. And there   was a bill the last session that Topeka asked  for that ability for section housing for section   8 housing. I would think under the federal laws  they would have that ability anyway. Um but that   bill was not passed and the or or the statute  was not amended. So by forcing a landlord to   accept section 8 vouchers were not necessarily  requiring for interior inspections. But we are   if they accept a voucher because they have to  get an inspection from the federal government.   There's nothing in the income discrimination  ordinance that would require a landlord to   to accept those types of payments. It it is  discrimination if I come to you and and I'm   already have my voucher and you say, "No,  we're not going to do that." Okay, Sally. Now, my questions are probably directed towards  you. How many vouchers go unused in Witchah   currently? Well, we have more vouchers than we  have funding available. So, HUD allocates us   just about 3,500 vouchers. Right now, we're only  able to use 2,700 of them just due to the the cost   of housing and not increases from from HUD for  uh for those rental, but every voucher is being   used currently. We we have people that are out  looking for units consistently. We have 30 to 40   uh vouchers that turn over every month. So, we  have 30 to 40 people who go off the program. So,   for good reasons, for bad reasons. Um so those  units are consistently turning over but it is   about 30 to 40 per month. Okay. And then just  confirming HUD does require annual inspections by   annual inspections actually unless the property  goes into abatement which means they did not   correct uh a previous deficiency within the time  frame and then it it reverts to annual. Okay. And   then also bypassing let's say the uh section 8  portion of this or the non-discrimination income   non-discrimination um would we be compelling  landlords to do business with the federal   government? No, that the contract is not between  um the the landlord and the federal government.   It's actually between the landlord and the PHA.  Okay. Um sorry, I have a few more questions. Actually, that may be all my questions for  you. Thank you. I'm going to go back to   a couple of things. Um, can someone give  the background on the non-discrimination   ordinance and reiterate how many cases have come  before um and how many have been substantiated,   how many have been thrown out. Um, I  would like us to all level set on the MDO. I I'll I'll try to answer what I can. Um  there's been about, as the manager said,   15 cases that were filed. The process is that the  law department um we assign an investigator. The   investigator then um reviews all the information  provided by the person making the complaint. Um,   it can be referred to mediation if both  parties want to go to mediation. Um,   I think we've had two attempted mediations that  I'm aware of. Um, none of the allegations um have   been found to have violated the non-discrimination  ordinance. A few of those I do know were appealed   to district court and eventually those  were dismissed at the district court level. Then I wanted to know since environmental  court would be um eliminated from this,   can we uh get data regarding how many cases  come through environmental court? Um how   many are found guilty, not guilty? Um and also  some background regarding charge disposition. Yes, we can work on getting you that information. I can I can supply that information. Mayor, um you had asked for some data on  environmental court outcomes from for the   last five years from 2019 to 2024. Um during  that period of time, there were a total of   roughly 6,900 cases. uh about uh just slightly  less than 4500 of those uh which is about 65%   had were dismissed. Um the about 900 guilty or  diversions and five were non not guilty and then   there were about 1,500 where we couldn't process  couldn't serve the the um person uh because   uh for various reasons that that we couldn't find  them for service. Is is it accurate to say that   over the last five years of environmental court, a  large majority of these cases are dismissed? Yes,   mayor. But require time from both staff as  well as individuals involved in those cases   in order for it to come to this final stage. That  is that is correct. Can you quantify that amount? I don't know that we provided that information  in terms of the hours involved in the cases.   I think it would be important to have this data  point um for community to understand uh the amount   of time both for tenants, landlords and the court  system uh to go through uh each of these cases. I   feel like our green sheet does not provide enough  data. Uh this data that I asked was only provided   to me because I asked for it. However, I think it  would be appropriate for the rest of the council   to receive it. I just got it last night. Um, so  I'm asking these questions because I feel like um,   oftentimes we are lacking data and trying  to make decisions without full data. Um,   and again this would be eliminating  uh, that final process that currently   is being utilized. So I want to know um,  if this can be provided to community also. city manager. Yeah. Yes, we can figure out  a way to do that. Thank you, Council Member   Glass [ __ ] Thank you, Sally. I'm sorry. I  have one more question that just popped up. I'll ask a question while you're coming down.  How does pending how does the current government   shutdown especially on relation to HUD affect  payments to uh landlords? I know that there is   reserve funding through November but if  it extends beyond that what would happen   uh in terms of payment vouchers? So we were  just notified yesterday um that HUD is allocated   actually through the end of December. So the the  PHA funding budget actually doesn't run on the   federal fiscal year. It runs calendar year  and so this last quarter was covered under   last year's appropriations. So for the voucher  program, we are definitely covered through the   end of December. Um if it were to roll into  January, I sure hope it doesn't. Um we do   have some reserves that could come into play  for at least most of January. Okay. Thank you,   Council Member Ballard. Thank you,  mayor. I have Well, so what happens   to the 1500 complaints that are not able to be  processed or served? They just go away or like they are generally dismissed for  lack of process. Um, in some cases,   the inspectors will uh go out and try to find  better addresses. Um but but generally those   are dismissed along with those that  we can get served. Okay. Thank you. I see no further questions from the bench  at this moment. Um so we will open it up   for public comment. Here are a few um ground  rules that are at every single city council   meeting. Please come up to the bench. Say your  name um so that the clerk can have your name   for the record. Please state your address.  Again, for the record, you will have up to   five minutes and the time clock will be  at each of these monitors. Once 5 minutes   um has expired, we ask that you please sit down.  Uh the next individual can then come forward and   the process begins yet again. We will now open  it up for public comment regarding this item. Good morning, Mayor Woo, council members, staff.  I'm Tony Porter, vice president of government   relations and military affairs at the Witchah  Regional Chamber of Commerce. I'm here today to   express our opposition to the proposed charter  ordinance that would significantly restructure   Witchah's property maintenance, rental housing,  and municipal code enforcement systems. While we   support efforts to improve neighborhood standards,  this ordinance introduces sweeping changes   that risk unintended harm to Witchah's housing  market and business climate. First, adopting the   international property maintenance code replaces  our local responsive standards with a rigid   national model. This could lead to inconsistent  enforcement and higher compliance costs for small   property owners. Second, the rental registry adds  bureaucracy and fees for landlords, even those who   promptly address minor issues. This discourages  reinvestment in older neighborhoods, and adds   unnecessary administrative burden. Most concerning  is the elimination of the neighborhood court. This   specialized court has been a proven, efficient  tool for resolving nuisance and housing cases.   Moving these matters to general dockets will delay  resolutions and increase costs for both the city   and property owners. We urge the council to defer  action and convene a working group of business,   housing, and neighborhood stakeholders.  Together, we can modernize our codes without   overregulating or dismantling systems that  work. Thank you for your time and leadership. Before we continue, I did ask for decorum and  I appreciate that there are individuals for and   against um multiple issues. So, I'm going to ask  that you please not clap um during this portion   of public comment. Thank you. Thank you. Uh mayor,  vice mayor, and council members, good morning. Uh   my name is Kurt Holmes, uh 445 North Waco here in  Witchah. I'm an attorney here in Witchah for over   40 years. My office since 1983 has represented  property owners and landlords in this area,   including large apartment communities uh to rental  owners with familyrun businesses. In addition,   I grew up painting uh rental properties uh  owned by my father uh and my uncle and I   have been a rental owner for 35 years. Because our  practice has been in existence for over 40 years,   we have a large network of rental groups, the  Apartment Association of Witchah, as well as   hundreds of landlords. We believe that if a policy  is going to be implemented that affects landlords,   the landlords and property managers should  be informed. These are major ordinances that   all of us for the most part had four days to  review before being voted upon. This was done   with little collaboration from the groups that I  have mentioned and affect so many households in   this city. Given that these ordinances are being  implemented in response to properties like Emery   Gardens that has become the poster child for  change in our 40 years of practice, I've seen   that property rehabbed. I've seen it destroyed  and I've seen a continual cycle and now we have   it houses tenants that's being reported that have  mold and bugs. That's wrong. We all agree the city   has the power to stop it. you inspect them,  you find them, and you have the power to shut   them down. We know that has not happened. Uh you  don't want to be the ones to do it and add to the   homeless situation. We understand that. Um I don't  know um if the funds are available with federal   cuts. I know that funds are limited, but given  that, let's collaborate on what can be done and   implement plans to help those folks that need to  be moved from these properties. Educate tenants.   Um if a notice uh if a notice the tenant has a  right to file a notice and give a 14-day notice   and terminate that uh many tenants don't know that  and lease can be uh terminated and uh they can be   allowed to move. I would suggest more workshops be  done to get new section 8 landlords. I would like   to see that housing be approved immediately uh or  be approved immediately with plans for immediate   payment while any see that um while any items  that need to be repaired be done in association   with the tenant and inspector. Taking three months  to implement a new house and having inconsistent   inspectors and lack of oversight discourages many  landlords from taking section 8. It needs to be   voluntary. I was chairman that saw two phases of  tax credit properties built at Central Community   Church for incomequalified tenants called that's  uh called Central Landing on the grounds of the   church. Some of you at the in the council I think  were at several of those opening ceremonies. This   is an example of a win-win for both tenants  and landlords. If a house has to be torn down,   then a new one needs to be built so that tenants  can have quality housing that they can afford.   Any ordinance that seeks a source of income in its  protected class is problematic for landlords. Um,   turn down a one-time payment for a tribe, say no  to a one-time payment for a nonprofit, or say no   to an assistance program that the owner may then  face a discrimination complaint. an ordinance um   that requires tenants or requires registration  of residents can and will result from minor   infractions where the registered owner becomes um  the offender and um warning other renters to avoid   renting from them with little safeguard to the  causes that put the owner there. If a tenant does   not mow, has a junk car, or is just unclean as  defined by the ordinance, and the landlord fails   to move quickly to remove the tenant, the landlord  becomes the offender. Finally, um, and again,   these hurt property owners and discourage  investment in housing. Finally, why pass an   ordinance that threatens to put property owners in  our city in jail? Find them exorbitant amounts and   remove any judicial discretion. We all know that  this is uh this will not happen with LLC's and   outside owners who are protected by that. Property  owners and um property managers should never be   threatened with jail for code violations. We can't  house our criminals now. You have the tools. Use   them. Let's work together. I encourage you uh to  vote no on these ordinances. Let's find ways to   help both the tenants and landlords operate  in a market that for many is very tough and   financially draining. I thank you for your time.  Council member Hohheisel. Thank you, Mayor. Um I   just add a point of clarification. I don't know if  Troy wants to speak to it to uh Mrs. Porter's um   comments earlier. It's not just the international  code, but we are also keeping many of our codes   with property maintenance in the uh in this  proposed ordinance as well. Is that correct? So, I want to try to answer your question.  There's the overlap between the existing   property maintenance codes that we  have on on record today. Those are   If adopted today, that would sunset  those codes. December 31st, 2026,   it would adopt the International Property  Maintenance Code effective January 1, 2026. Um,   and so there would be that overlap, but yes,  eventually by January 1, 2027, the property   maintenance codes that would be on the books are  the international property maintenance code with   local amendments. With the local amendments that  includes all of the local amendments, right? Uh,   in fact, the International Code Council recommends  local amendments. In fact, there's a number of   local amendments where the property maintenance  code is actually drafted in such a way where it   says sort of fill in the blank depending on  your local jurisdictions's preference of of   certain standards, right? And so included in the  value is not just adoption of the international   property maintenance code cart blanch. It is  amended with local amendments to comply with   state statute as well as to coincide with the  the history and practice of property maintenance   codes locally. Okay. I just wanted to make sure  that was clear to everybody. Thank you, Council   Member Ballard. Thank you, Mayor. Uh Sally,  could I ask you a question really quick? Sorry. I just want to say also thank you so much for  everybody being here. Um, the question that I   wanted to ask Sally is I'm grateful for everyone  that is here, whichever side you're on or whatever   um, feedback you're able to offer us because uh,  Sally has worked hard on working with landlords   and it has been really difficult. I don't know if  we're not getting the word out in the right way,   but we have tried to engage landlords, even had  incentive programs even for damages that could   potentially happen and we just have not gotten  very much traction on it. So, I sorry that you're   all pissed off and that is what took for you to  get here, but we really have tried to engage. Um,   so if you guys have any other ideas of how we can  communicate some of these programs that we have   been trying to work on, um, I think we would  all be grateful for that. But can you speak   to the couple things that we've done just to try  to engage landlords? Sure. Um, obviously we hold   the Greater Witchaw Housing Conference. It's  an opportunity to try and engage landlords also   provide training on fair housing and other issues.  Uh when funding was available through the CARES   Act, we launched a landlord incentive program.  It at that point it was ESG funding. So it was   um designed just for landlords who were taking  people coming from homelessness. And we had CARES   money set aside for that program. Uh held $100,000  for damage claims, rental vacancy. In a year we   had zero claims. and that funding went away and it  dissolved. Based on that experience, we actually   launched when we had ARPA funding available, an  additional landlord incentive program that wasn't   limited to just new tenencies for people coming  from homelessness. It was all tenencies that   started in January of 2023. Um, for new landlords  who had never leased section 8 previously,   there was a $1,000 signing bonus for those that  were returners. So, someone who hadn't had a teny   in the last year um but took a new teny, they  got a $500 signing bonus. We also made vacancy   um claims available as well as damage claims. We  actually had two claims. We had one for vacancy   that was a domestic violence situation where we  had to move the client in the middle of the term   and we had one damage claim covered 683 tenencies  in 18 months and had two claims. So, we still have   a couple more questions. Sorry. uh to the rest of  the individuals. Council member Tuttle, thank you.   Um and this is for Troy. I feel like Troy and  Sally should just kind of park it right there,   right? You're gonna burn a lot of calories today.  Um Troy, thank you for all your great information.   Thank you for all your work on this. Um I have  lots of comments and questions for later. is   kind of waiting to have the process. But you did  say something that um I wasn't aware of and didn't   see it in in the packet that the International  Property Maintenance Code kind of has a section   where it says fill in the blank locally.  Correct. So when we are filling in the blank,   who do we consult to get that information? Are we  reaching out to property owners? Are we reaching   out to tenants? Are we using staff? obviously  content expert but has there been who do we   reach out to to fill in the blank? So probably one  of the easiest examples right is in the property   management for example high weeds and grass right  it says high weeds and grass shall be maintained   at a height of no more than fill in the blank well  we already have those provisions in our codes and   ordinances today I think it's 12 in 12 in sorry  so we just took that from our existing codes   and ordinances and sort of filled in the blank  right so uh a lot of it is taking from uh what   we already have on our in our codes and ordinances  today. Uh number two is uh uh just throughout the   years better understand there's another uh we we  made a local amendment while we're on that topic,   right? Uh we went to one of the district advisory  boards earlier this year, right? And we uh I met   some ladies who talked about uh some of these  alternative garden types, right? And so we said,   "Yeah, you're right. We've got some of that  language on the books today. That language   does not appear in the International Property  Maintenance Code. So, as part of the draft before   you all today, we've incorporated that language  uh being responsive to folks in and around the   community who said we also need to understand that  there are these sustainable gardens and those kind   of things and strict interpretation and literal  interpretation should be amended, right, and   looked at to take into consideration what we're  now seeing out in the So, just other examples.   Thank you for that and and not a question but just  a comment that one of the things that I've heard   consistently in the last few days is especially  for land owners, property owners, landlords,   whatever term we want to use, they haven't felt  like they've been engaged enough, especially in   this process. So wanted to see if there was some  engagement, you know, all the way along as there   should be. So thank you very much, Trey. Council  member Johnson. Thanks, Mayor. Um I was going to   wait, but Mr. home said something that um I  really think should be out in the nexus. So,   we talk about Emory Gardens and everyone's seen  that in the news and how terrible it is for a   lot of the folks there. Um as the council member  who's probably been in the most terrible spaces,   it's not just Emory Gardens. There's apartment  complexes on the west side. There's apartment   complexes also on the south side. There's more in  District 1. I've been in individual homes and I   know that in the code when we talk about the fines  or even the jail, it may not be some of you fine   folks in this room, but there are some people that  probably need some much more assertive penalty for   what they're doing and forcing people to live in  those conditions. So, that's not saying that the   folks in this room need to go to jail, but when  you go into a space where there's a pregnant   woman who has a 9-month-old and they've been to  the emergency room eight times and they can show   you how many times they've reached out to try  to get something addressed or to get something   remedyed and it doesn't and it gets ignored. What  do you do with that person? You just keep finding   them. What happens for the justice for that young  lady or that baby? And that's just one story. I've   got plenty in my phone. I've been in those places.  Anybody who follows me on Facebook has seen those.   So, as we've talked about being a little more  assertive, council did say uh at the workshop,   we wanted a hybrid model. So, it's not just  big stick on every landlord, but there are   certain situations that somebody should get a  bigger punishment and they deserve it for what   they're treating people like and the conditions  that they're putting them in. And those folks   aren't selling their properties to good folks like  you all. They're continuing to get a paycheck and   they're not fixing the problem. So somewhere  in there there needs to be more assertiveness   and that's what this is trying to get at. Happy  to hear more ideas on u what folks think about   that. But when you have seen what I have seen when  you've seen these folks break down. Council member   Ballard and I went into a space where a woman uh  in district 6 who had been to the emergency room   I think eight times and went to the emergency room  the same day that we left after that. something's   wrong with that and we got to be able to do  something to address that. So, some of this may   seem assertive and I know folks are um concerned  about some of that, but those are the issues that   we're dealing with. Again, it might not be y'all  in this room, but there are some folks who have to   deal with these types of things. And to the point  of if we were to do something about Emery Gardens,   where are these folks going? The speaker this  morning already talked about that. What happens   when we say they give their 30-day notice because  things aren't being addressed and they want to   move out, but when they find a place, they have  to have three times the rent that they're making.   They can't go. If they don't make it, they're  stuck. They are very much stuck in a space like   that. And there's a lot more people than what  you might realize in those situations. So again,   people's real lived experiences out there,  and you may hear from some of them today,   but most of them get retaliated against. So,  you may not see them at the podium. And some   of them won't even send emails to us because it's  a public record. It happens. It truly does. You've   seen it. And if anybody invites me back out, most  of the time they get retaliated against. Happy to   show you. But I've seen some real terrible stuff.  I've even had staff tell me I shouldn't have went   somewhere because it was so much black mold and  pest infestation. These are some bad spaces here.   And unless we do something more than what we have  been doing, people are going to continue to live   in those spaces. So happy to hear more ideas on  that, but just wanted to say it this is not just   some one-off and one apartment complex. It's a lot  happening in the city of Witchah. Council member   Ho Heisel. Thank you, Mayor. I I guess I was going  to save some comments for later, too, but I just   want under people to understand where we're coming  from in the Emery Gardens incident. And it's not   just again to Council Member Johnson's point, it's  not just unique to Emery Gardens, but I will speak   on this one. Uh we had pictures coming in from  people um with their children with their backs   just ridden with bed bug bites. Uh these people  had been paying $4 a month for pest control. Um   this particular property owner was taking that  money and not actually doing the pest control.   So that that was an issue right there. Um we went  in there, we looked around, we saw just again the   black mold, uh doors off their hinges, all all  the conditions that we were looking at there.   We reported it. We tried to work to get  it addressed. Um, a couple weeks later,   we finally tracked down the property owner after  going through, I believe, seven different LLC's,   a couple of different states. Um, he was  out there that day. Uh, we went out there.   Um he had in his hand a list of people who had  made complaints, a list of people who had been um   open with their criticisms, a list of people who  had worked with the uh current property management   system who the current property manager said,  "Okay, we understand about this uh infestation   issue. You don't have to pay rent until we either  get it taken care of or you find someplace else."   He had in his hand this list and was going around  that day evicting people, including single moms.   I had to look a single mom in her eyes who was  getting evicted. This is illegal on the state   level, but there was no enforcement arm on it  at the time. Um, that's when we came up with   the landlord retaliation. But seeing a single mom  who shared the pictures of her one-year-old child   with the bed bugs just ridden up and down that  child's back and knowing there was very little   that we could do. So, talking to her about it, my  the reason I'm here is because my family at home,   drug issues, major drug issues. I will not have  my child around that. So getting the eviction   notice in her hand, she looks me in the eye and  she says, "Well, I have a car." So my child and   I will be sleeping in this car until we can find  housing. We managed to actually get her into some   temporary housing until she was able to find  a place. But just understand looking a woman   like this in the eyes, seeing elderly people who  are getting evicted, uh people with disabilities   who are getting evicted and knowing there was very  little that we could do to actually protect them   and help them. That's what spurred this. That's  what has spurred this entire conversation. So,   like Council Member Johnson said, I'm eager  to find ways that we can work with people. I'm   eager to find ways that we can actually address  these issues. That's the goal here. It's not to   be punitive on anybody, but it's actually to hold  the people accountable who are making a profit off   of people living in substandard living conditions  who run it extreme just straight like a business,   dollars and sign, dollars and cents. That's  all that they're looking at right here. So,   um I did just want to put that out here before  this discussion. And again, please if if you   have suggestions to make this more effective,  less punitive on people uh the good landlords,   but more effective for the bad landlords, for the  people who are forcing people to live on this,   especially people who have nowhere else to  go. Let's let's have this conversation. So,   I appreciate that. Thank you. We  will continue with public comment. Hello, my name is Dakota. I am with ICT Tenant  Union. My address is 1746 South Glenn. I also   work at Pixus, a program that provides a safe  and stable environment for children in foster   care without personal um permanent housing. I'm  speaking out for future renters and all workers   who couldn't make it here today because they can't  afford to miss a day of work or didn't have enough   time to plan ahead. I do see a lot of landlords  uh in line behind me. Um but the decisions today   impact the renters of this city. Their honest  hard work can hardly make up for rent, bills,   and basic healthcare, let alone groceries,  schooling, or emergency crisis. A lot of these   emergency crises are due to the state that their  property is in. Whether it's a flood, infestation,   destruction of personal property, health hazard,  or the foundation of their home deteriorating,   most renters are the working class of Witchah and  the backbone of the city. They're what's keeping   things moving, yet they're being taken advantage  of. Everyone deserves safe and affordable housing.   If you can't supply that as a landlord, then why  are you renting out your home? Forcing people to   live in a home that you wouldn't consider fit to  occupy for yourself or your family is inhumane.   I am speaking from personal experience. Not only  living in uninhabitable conditions, but being   treated as though my safety was not a concern. I  dealt with infestation, constant flooding, mold,   and eventually unlawful eviction. This was 10  years ago, and I was only 16 years old. Now,   all this time later, I am hearing the same stories  and the same treatment from tenants living in   the same building with the same landlord. No  child should have to suffer unsafe housing.   No parent should feel the burden of not being  able to supply a stable home because the demands   from landlords are unaffordable and the  lack of care is unlivable. It's not just   big landlords like the one I experienced.  We've been hurt by the small landlords,   too. They learn all the tricks of the  trade from the out ofstate developers,   and they're only mad at the big landlords because  they're losing money from them. This has nothing   to do with their concern for tenants. Not only  that, but children are constantly aging out of   foster care, having suffered unfair treatment and  unstable housing. their entire lives. Ensuring   landlords accept section 8 housing or any form  of assistance and holding landlords accountable   for providing safe housing would mean children  who have a disadvantage growing up can not only   find a home but feel safe and secure for the  first time in their lives. Slipping through   the cracks of an unjust system begins before  many people even become workingclass citizens.   It's time we strengthen the renting class to  not only benefit individuals and families,   but our community as a whole. And don't forget,  tenants are the core of our economy. Thank you. You just wait. Is this two minutes? Cool. Hi, I'm Cat. I'm a staff member at Safe Streets.  I'm an advocate and I'm also a member of the ICT   tenants union and I live in District 1. My  zip code is 67214. Now, I believe that tenant   rights and harm reduction are deeply connected as  stable, safe housing is a foundational aspect of   an individual and community well-being. Protecting  tenant rights such as income protections and   access to habitable habitable living conditions  and freedom from discrimination helps reduce harm   by preventing housing insecurity, which is a major  risk factor for poor health, substance use crisis,   and criminalization. Now, I got laid off  during CO and I learned firsthand how brutal   the housing system can be for people who are  working and without it. Without steady income,   I got screened out of every rental even though  I was actively looking for work. Took me seven   applications to actually secure housing and that  spent $350 to get those in. I couldn't imagine   doing that if I were like homeless or had less  funds available. It felt like extra discrimination   and screening for conditions that are beyond  my control. Renters like me need protections   that recognize housing as a necessity and not a  luxury. Renters in which are some of the hardest   working individuals in this city. They are young  people looking to buy and save homes. Elderly who   have retired from a long life in the industry.  Workingclass people working to just get by. Our   tenants union knows that strength comes from the  home. These tenants need strengthen. They deserve   homes conducive to building strength. I'm sorry,  conducive to building strength and maintaining   their health. These ordinances don't just take  the heat off of some of those that we've mentioned   like Emory Gardens, but uplifts it uplifts and  strengthens the tenants of tomorrow. Mayor Woo   stated during her campaign that Witchaw needs  to focus on the basics. These ordinances are the   basic rules and regulations for rental homes.  If landlords are to lord over their tenants,   they ought to respect and steward the land and  property that their tenants live on. Vote yes for   the good of the tenants and strengthening  of the workers in Witchaw. Thank you. Mayor, Vice Mayor, uh council members, my name  is Garrett Holmes at 445 North Waco. Um I'm also   an attorney here in Witchah. Uh and I come from  the same office as uh Mr. Kurt Holmes who spoke   earlier. Uh like he said, our office represents  property owners and landlords across the city   from large apartment communities to small  familyrun operations, mom and pops. Uh those   are the people who who love Witchah and who are  keeping Witchah housed. When these ordinances were   released last week, our office issued a memorandum  explaining why we think they're dangerous. They're   an unprecedented expansion of the city's power  and an infringement upon property owners rights.   Unfortunately, the proposed ordinances, if  made law, would not uh be effective policy   and achieve their stated goals that u we've been  told that they would achieve. The truth is is that   the ordinances weren't born from collaboration.  They were written with one side in mind. The very   people who provide housing, the ones in this  room, weren't invited to that table. And that   matters because when policy is written without  collaboration, you don't get cooperation. You get   conflict. Instead of building bridges between  landlords and tenants, these ordinances build   walls. They divide. They discourage investment.  They create red tape and resentment. Now,   we've all seen the headlines. Um, uh, Council  Member, uh, Johnson just spoke about them. Uh,   Witchaw doesn't have a landlord problem. It has an  Emery Gardens problem and some other properties.   And we all know who those properties are. A  handful of bad actors have ignored the city for   years. They've ignored the headlines, the the news  articles. Um, and they've allowed the conditions   in those in their properties to rot. They've made  every responsible landlord, the ones in this room,   in this city look like a villain. And that's  wrong. The city already has the power to deal   with these properties. Uh, you can find them, you  can inspect them, and when they refuse to comply,   you can shut them down. That's where the focus  should be, not on punishing everyone, but to   enforce the laws you already have against those  properties who refuse to comply. These ordinances,   if made law, would not get the properties like  Emory Gardens uh to all of a sudden probably   clean up. Uh property like that isn't going to  pay your fines. They're not going to all of a   sudden invest millions into the rehab process um  because they've already ignored it for years. The   only action that the city can take against a bad  actor like that is to uh take the stand that we're   not going to allow that shut that place down.  Um and when a property is shut down, you need   uh a place for those those people to go. And  that's where the collaboration should really   come from the city's perspective and where the  focus needs to be. Work with the good landlords,   the people in this room who care about Witchaw.  Incentivize them to take in the displaced tenants.   Help fill those gaps. incentivize those government  programs that already exist. Um, strengthen those   and really try to build build real solutions. The  best way to move forward is not through blame but   through partnership. These ordinances, they don't  uh they don't achieve the goals that they're set   out to. They expand power um but they don't expand  fairness. In particular, the pro proposed property   maintenance code gives a single official the power  to be the investigator, the prosecutor, and the   judge. That's not due process and that's not how  a fair system should work. Landlords are long-term   stakeholders. Long after you all have moved on to  your next opportunities, uh, wherever that may be,   the properties are still going to be here. And a  lot of the property owners will still be owning   the same properties. They're here for decades.  They maintain properties, improve neighborhoods,   um, and provide homes to our community. They're  not the enemy, but part of the solution.   So, I'm asking you respectfully to vote no on  these ordinances, not because you don't care   about tenants, but because you care enough to get  it right and invite everybody to the table. Use   the enforcement tools you already have. Shut  down bad properties. Work with the good ones   to rehouse tenants. Build trust, not tension. And  this is our opportunity to turn a divisive moment   into a collaborative one to show that Witchto can  solve problems without punishing the very people   who keep our city moving. So, let's take this  opportunity together. Thank you. Before we move   on, Council Member Johnson. Thanks, Mayor. I do  want to highlight, it's been said a couple times,   I was looking for my list. Um, while we again  may not have met with everybody in this room,   we did actually meet with uh private landlords,  landlord companies, and I know personally went   to rental owners incorporated twice in which in  those meetings, I think there were anywhere from   25 to 40, um, landlords in there at the time.  So, uh, as it continues to say, um, that we   did not we did and we talked about these things  and we got some feedback. That's where some of   the um current even amendments came from because  there were some additional things that we were   interested in and that feedback uh helped out. But  that did happen. Just want to put that out there.   It wasn't us doing this in a vacuum. We have  been talking to people. Council member Johnson,   do you have those dates so that people know? Yes.  The uh we met with private landlords. This was   back when this was supposed to come up in 2023. We  met with private landlords in August, September,   um October of 22, January of 23, and then  there were some additional conversations   I had in 24 over at Atwater Neighborhood  Resource Center with private landlords. I before we move on, I did ask  for this very question which is   can you provide a list of dates in 2025  where you have engaged all stakeholders. So, uh, going back to sort of public meetings that  have been conducted, um, I can say specifically,   we had the city council meeting back on June 3rd,  2025. We went to district advisory board one on   Monday, June 7th. District advisory board 2 on  Monday, September 8th. District advisory board 3   on July 2nd. District advisory board 4 on August  11th. District advisory board 5 on August 4th.   District Advisory Board 6 on July 14th. And I  know that I met with a gentleman representing   some landlords specifically. I don't know why his  name is it's going to come to me representing some   landlords. I met with him personally during this  period. I'd have to go back and get exactly when   uh I met with that that one gentleman. Um this is  just a comment really quick before we move on to   um more public comment. To me that is not full  public engagement. Um and I understand that   each of the six council members have monthly  district advisory board meetings. However,   as I've gone around the city, um I've asked  people, "Do you know which district you live   in?" And most people don't even know that very  answer. they don't know that their council member   hosts monthly meetings that are specific to their  districts and specific comments uh that come out   of there then at some point will come to a city  council meeting and so I feel like there has   not been enough engagement because of that very  reason the dates I think thank thank you council   member Johnson for reiterating that some of the  dates that you have were from 2022 2023 and now   um assistant city manager Troy mentioned 2025  dates. I always believe that you have a seat   at the table and I can understand the frustration  whether it's tenants or even landlords that just   saw this item come forward last week even though  it has been discussed in multiple different   settings. However, never in this length and in  this detail. And so I first and foremost want to   encourage people to number one get to know these  uh individuals who represent your districts um as   they have these monthly council meetings. And then  in addition to I believe that um you mentioned the   renters association um that was not engagement  recently and um a greater group of stakeholders   needs to be engaged and that is the landlords as  well as the tenants and I hear that there's that   association for tenants. So I want to make sure  that real full engagement is actually happening,   not just one landlord and one tenant speaking  on behalf of all tenants and all landlords. So   um I see that there needs to be further  engagement. Council member Glass. Thank you,   Mayor. I think this room is evident uh evidence  that we did not properly engage people. Um because   when we properly engage people, this many people  don't show up to a meeting. So I think that's   evidence number one. Second off, and this might be  somewhat disingenuous about the District 4 meeting   on August 11th. I did not, our District 4 board,  I'm there every single month, did not hear source   of income. We did not hear rental registry. The  only thing was about the International Property   Maintenance Code. And it was more of a high level.  And so, we have not had public engagement since   the language of these ordinances published at my  district advisory board or any other meeting. A   lot of the meetings that happened in 2023, I  was not even on the council during that time.   We didn't come in until August of 2024. And um  again, I think today shows that we did not do   proper engagement because that would not be  the outcome that we would hear from people.   Not to even mention the hundreds of emails that  we've all received over the past couple weeks.   Council member Johnson. Thanks, Mayor. Um Troy,  I also don't have his name written down, but he   is actually the new president of the group that I  mentioned that I spoke with. So, you did talk to   um that gentleman. And then two just want to  highlight as we talk about public engagement   um there is it's it's tough um we always say we  want public engagement and we encourage people   to go to district advisory boards and that is  public engagement I guess in that sense but at   this point when we talk about going to district  advisory boards it's it's definitely not enough   now yes we can reach out to more groups but I can  guarantee that with naming specific groups and   having that we still wouldn't touch everyone.  So the goal is to get out there and get as   much feedback as possible from as many people as  possible. Often that is a district advisory board,   but um there's always going to be some named gap  in trying to reach people where they are. And so   again, I'm glad to see so many people here today.  However you found out about this was coming,   I hope that everybody stays engaged, not  only um as this continues to get developed,   but over the next several years, cuz there's  always some issues to engage with and it's   great to have people to be able to talk to and  we don't always have an ability to reach out to   this many folks. So again, thank you all for being  here. Council member Tuttle, thank you. Um and and   it also I appreciate everyone who's here today,  everyone who has reached out um either email,   text, phone call, grabbing me at the restaurant  last night. Um I do want to have a call to action   if I can for the people who are speaking, other  people who may come up and speak, people who   may email us or contact us after this. I I I think  I'm hearing there's going to be consensus probably   that we want to delay this um to try and get  more feedback from land owners and from tenants.   I I can't say um I'm prepared for a motion when  the time comes if if that's a a probability,   but when you are speaking to us, if you could  provide I know it's last minute. Some of you   towards the back will have more time to think,  but how do you want to be engaged? What might   that process look like to be the most effective?  Um you know, is it having a town hall like this   and letting land owners and tenants come and speak  to us? Is it a committee that we form to help us   look through the international prop maintenance  property property maintenance code and see what   revisions might be possible? I'm just really  curious if we can take this unique opportunity   when we have so many um passionate witchins here  to see if we could also not only hear your opinion   but provide us with suggestions on next steps. So  thank you. We will continue with public comment. There there have been two lines that have formed  since the beginning of this public comment series.   If you mind, please stand in line. I know that  there a line has naturally formed on each side.   Thank you. Appreciate that. We have someone  at the podium that had done it before and I   just wanted to make sure that I was getting  in. Yeah, they they should not have done it,   but thank you. Well, it's a passionate topic, but  uh my name is Nella Bay. I'm the owner of Cedar   Mills Property Management here in Witchah. Um I  am opposed to this being passed today. However,   I think that this has a lot of very important  merits that we as a community need to talk about   and make action uh forward on. Uh I think the  reason there's so much presence from both tenants   and landlords is there's a lot of ambiguity that  people don't understand exactly some of those gaps   of how it will play out. How will a small nuisance  be compared to like the larger ones like Dalton   asked? How will um the protected class of source  of income impact the people's ability to actually   pay or a landlord's potential to be exposed to  getting sued? So I think these are the concerns   we have. I think that we need to move forward  with this and we need to have a more strict   process to deal with folks who are not complying  because it makes the rest of us look very bad. And   most of us are are good landlords. Like I know my  company, we do a make ready checklist before any   tenant moves in. We proactively try to address  any maintenance issues, cleanliness, smells,   all the things. And I don't know if everybody does  that, but I think being proactive provides the   tenant a better move in experience. and it creates  a better partnership for us to work together. Um,   so most people are doing those type of things,  but that 15% that are not getting hammered when   they need to, I think that's the issue we need  to resolve. We need to find a path to effectively   holding people accountable like um, Councilman  Johnson said. And I would like to participate and   I think there are a lot of other property managers  and folks who are stakeholders in the community   and tenants alike that have opinions and have good  ideas because we are in the trenches so to speak   every day dealing with these problems that arise  and they're not all landlord problems. They're not   all tenant problems. Sometimes they're economic  problems. I mean we've seen what inflation's done   to our community and the affordability  of housing. But at the end of the day,   if you want me to follow fair housing laws, I have  to have standards and precedents to outline what   are the qualifying criteria. And a three times  the rental income is one of those because we have   found when we make exceptions, people struggle  and then they end up getting evicted and on the   street and that's not really a good solution. I  don't want to move a family in or a single mom in   or a young person in and then have to evict them  because they're behind and they cannot pay rent.   So, while there may be other ways to create a  process that we as a community come together to   have more emergency funding for people who are in  bad living situations, I'll use the Witchaw flag   license plates as an example. That program is so  successful. I mean, people pay $50 a year to have   this specialized license plate and there's a huge  fund for parks and wreck and they're trying to   come up with ways to use it in the community.  What if we did something along those lines,   but that benefited housing and make it voluntary?  Not a tax, not a forced item, but I bet you if   you had something really cool to offer, like a  flag you can hang outside or some other I mean,   I'm not creative on the spot right now, but  something like that where people can say, "Hey,   I care about my neighbors and my friends, and I  want to make sure that if they are in a hardship,   there is something we can draw upon to get them  out of a bad situation." I think you would get   a lot of support and participation. So I guess my  point is I think we need to take a little bit more   time um because it is such an important topic  and and bridge those gaps of the details that   are lacking and come together um and support each  other and then hold those people accountable who   are not carrying their weight and are not doing  the right thing and make sure that they have the   appropriate consequence so they can either  get out of the rental market or do whatever   they need to do. so the right people can start  administering those properties. So, thank you   for your time. Thank you. We have questions from  council members. Council member Glascott. Mayor,   uh to the speaker's point of this would be maybe  for the city manager and council member Tuttles's   comments. If people want to stay engaged, I know  we don't have a list that people are writing their   information down right now. What's the best way  for them to continue to gauge the process? Do we   want to put a list outside if they want to engage?  Is there an email that they should reach out to   so that they can be involved in perhaps future  correspondence? Well, as much as we have people   identify themselves and their addresses, the  clerk captures that. Uh, in terms of followup,   um, we could probably get a list out in the lobby  if people want to sign up for that. Okay. So,   let's maybe plan on that. Maybe on your way out  there'll be a list that will be outside of these   two doors in the middle that you could put your  information down and we'll have comms put that   out there. Thank you. Vice Mayor Johnston.  Thank you, Mayor, and thank you very much   for your comments. I do want to just clarify  one thing that the flag revenue goes to the   parks and Rex Foundation, which does help parks  and wreck. For instance, they paid part of the   uh the fee for the uh uh planning, the year-long  planning they're going through. I want to say   that I've engaged with a lot of landlords, uh,  some tenants also, and all the landlords I've   engaged with want the bad landlords taken care  of and punished. They absolutely want that. So,   and they want to find a way to do that and they  want to be engaged in trying to do that. And, uh,   one one of them gave me a pretty good analogy. He  said, "You don't kill a fly with a sledgehammer."   And I I think in in some respects that's what  we're doing here. Uh we do need to take care of   it. Uh I'm with Council Member Johnson. We do  something needs to be done. Um I'm just don't   think we're there yet. So, but I do want something  done, but we we just have to make it so it just   punishes those 15% or six or seven landlords, not  all the good ones. So, thank you, Council Member   Hoheisel. Thank you, Mayor. I did just uh want  to add give some additional information to the   last speaker uh regarding our ability to help with  affordable housing, affordable housing funds and   whatnot. Um a lot of it's been cut. I think 98% of  our housing department is funded through HUD and   uh currently we are looking at somewhere between  a 17% cut to those services in the Senate bill   and a 43% cut in the the House bill. So, with the  upcoming budget discussions, the upcoming budget,   um our ability to actually help with vouchers,  with affordable housing, with any of that,   um will be severely limited and less effective  going forward. So, that will have to be part of   our discussions as well is how do we help with  affordable housing? How do we help with vouchers   with the people including seniors who are getting  squeezed in the middle? Um, I know it's the same   thing with property taxes went up 8.6%. Uh,  social security that's not keeping up with   that. Disability, that's not keeping up with that.  Uh, rental prices have gone up more than that as   well. So, there's a lot of people who are being  hurt and are being squeezed in the middle. And   that's going to have to be part of our community  discussion also going forward because our housing   department's in for um a number of issues in  the upcoming years due to uh federal budget. Mayor Council, I'm Joseph Tex Doer 215 North  Parkwood Lane. I'm here today also as a DAB one   uh DAB one member. Um, this came up in large part  focused on the codes as council member Glascock   mentioned and there was only one single slide at  the end that referenced some potential policies   that makes makes up the bulk of this. So, I just  found out a few days ago and I'm more here in   my capacity as a DAB member giving feedback as I  would having found out like before a DAB meeting   um on some things. Um, I'm not a landlord uh  but I have done past advocacy work with local   property owners as well as community organizing  in Texas, Chicago, and elsewhere. And so we have a   good opportunity to look at comparatively at other  cities at what they've done. Not a sledgehammer as   council member Johnston said, but maybe a scalpel  approach that is able to focus on the bad actors.   First and foremost, predictable rules protect good  housing, not bad actors. And right now, we don't   have much prediction and much clarity on certain  things. Council member Hazel might say that this   does not mean to uh crack down on people who maybe  the grass is a little too long, but unless the   letter and the law is there on clarifying,  we don't we need to do that. After all,   I think about politicians who uh when they came up  with federal income tax said only the top 1 to 3%   would be taxed at a 1 to 3% rate, but because we  didn't put it in writing, we now deal with what   we deal with these today. So, I I like the idea  that we have if we adopt the international codes,   we need to have our own American guidelines within  them. Uh administrative warrant, I would say,   skimming through this, define imminent hazard  clearly and narrowly for no warrant emergencies.   I would pause per day fines while verified work is  underway. And most importantly, uh, it was brought   up earlier, prevent stacking penalties across  overlapping codes for the same defect. Uh, with   the reinstatement of the boards of code standards  and appeals, I'm not sure on their full process,   but out of respect for landlords, there should  be a guaranteed timelines of like 30 days for a   hearing, 15 days for a decision ideally. And then  the biggest threat I think and potential risk for   a backlog is the cross the boards violations  registry. I would uh probably look at cities   that uh have success with a risk tier system. Uh  violations across the board often just bogs down   the system. Detroit's own violation heavy registry  became a failure and Buffalo's got weighed down so   much so many years that the courts had to step in.  Higher courts had to step in. It's lots of paper,   little compliance in single digit percent digits  on compliance. Huge backlog. Let's learn from   others and look at cities like Minneapolis where a  risk tiered system is triggered from adjudication   for life safety violations. Minneapolis has a 123  model where the first tier for best performers on   an 8-year cycle and a chronic three tiers get  annual visits and higher fees. Grand Rapids and   other other cities in I cities in Iowa also use  longer certificates for clean records and they   don't drown city staff while punishing good  actors. So, we should look at these and tie   fees to risk, not to any local witchins who  fix things when you actually call them. Uh,   source of income. If you want landlords open to  vouchers, make it don't make it a big government   unfunded mandate. Make it a good deal for them.  If this is about housing, clearly limit the SOI   to housing within the language so it addresses  some of the things that homes and others have   brought up. Add safe harbors for objective  screening the credit if it pass eviction   history and inspection funding timing failures.  pair. I I heard the ESG there was some funding,   but maybe we could look at Kansas City. Kansas  City has a $1 million landlord risk mitigation   fund when they updated their policy and so we can  maybe see if there's success from that. They don't   dictate to their own property owning citizens.  They recruit them to be a part of the solution.   They pull housing supply into voucher acceptance  voluntarily and much more efficiently than just   by si alone, which is slower. Uh finally, fees  and transparency. If fees must be set by council   resolution, I would encourage a specific  additional public notice before such would   happen. Uh maybe include a brief cost recovery  memo and if there is a reasonable annual cap or   any discussion of that, uh that could maybe bar  be only exception barred for the supermajority   vote of the council. Um it sounds like there's  a good sunset and transition policy in place,   but it's important to measure to manage and  publish the trust for the predictability. Uh,   I was thinking of how uh the sledgehammer  was mentioned in football season right now.   We often say go big and go home in sports.  But that's the opposite here. Going big even   with well-intentioned policies can often keep  us from real reforms that make the greatest   lasting impact. It can mean higher rents and  fewer providers, especially the smaller local   ones who we care about so much and against the  frustration of a lot of the out ofstate folks   that I know we've encountered with zoning cases in  district one. So the council should provide strong   tiered oversight that targets the worst while  not t taxing the rest and the best especially our   local witchins who keep so many housed. By doing  so we'll hopefully get safer homes, faster fixes,   more voucher leases as proven in those incentive  programs and most importantly more places for   widgets to live in peace and in prosperity.  Thank you. Thank you. I'm just going to make   a mention. Communications has witchah.gov/out  GV/outreach. Again, witchah.gov/outreach as a way for you to stay connected to tell us how   you want to be communicated.  Again, witchah.gov/outreach. We'll continue with public comment. My  name is Gail Clark. I live in Sedick,   Kansas. I don't reside in the city of Witchaw, but  my husband and I have nine rentals here in town.   I don't know what districts they are in. I would  guess out of all you guys, we are going to hit at   least half of you. So, for us to pay attention,  but to investigate when you're having your   uh neighborhood meetings, um I find it odd that  I can get phone calls every week, at least five,   and written communication from investors who want  to buy my home, but the city can't notify us of   um when when this uh type of uh communication  and uh meetings things occur. Um, one of the I   have a two pages that I have spent a couple  days on preparing and a lot of people have   already covered the issues so I won't recover  it. However, in the people that have talked here,   I've heard the word high level come up five  times. And if this has been brought up since   2022 and started to to be looked at at that  time, why wasn't the devil's in the details?   And this has got a lot of devil in it. Um why  wasn't uh the details presented at that time?   The assistant city manager was mentioning that  pass this and and we'll work on policies. No,   that's not good. You either pass the policies  before you approve the ordinance or then you   get more public input um uh as it moves forward.  So, that's a concern. I also think there's a big   concern where we're trying to add more bureaucracy  to an 85% compliance rate. I don't have any   examples of people or industries that have a 85%  compliance rate, but if my occupancy rate was 85%.   I'd be I'd be skipping rope here. I'd be loving  it. So, um 15% complaints. Um the none were found   guilty. Again, making an issue out of a non-issue.  Um the register or registry of of landlords who   have violated or maybe not violated. Um I would  say that's a really bad idea. And if it passes,   I would like to see a registry of tenants who  have willfully damaged our properties. And um   that's illegal. Again, I just asked for decorum in  this council chambers. So um we have our networks,   but um unfortunately um they're not farreaching  enough. So, um, keep that in mind when you're   when you're thinking about the registry.  Um, the, uh, reduced appeal rights, uh,   when you consolidate and you remove, um,  uh, oversight down to a few minute people,   um, you know, that's just unconstitutional. Uh  first amendment amendment gives um citizens the   the right to petition government for what's  called a regress of grievances or the right   um to correct a wrong. Um, and I see that um  being ignored by if these ordinances were passed.   um with respect to um a suggestion on how we  get um better housing um and and for tenants. Um   socioeconomic status does not absolve someone from  keeping property clean whether it's a landlord or   a tenant. Okay. So that is a is a huge issue. Just  because someone is on um uh uh disability or what   have you doesn't absolve them from taking care  of your property. But did you know that I cannot   garnish disability or social security. So if you  want to make that a protected income, probably   ought to work at a higher level, whether it be  state or federal, for me to garnish said protected   income because right now we can't do it. So if I'm  going to rent to someone whose sole income is on   is social security, um I'm I have to look really  hard uh about doing that. Not because I don't   want to be a good landlord, but because I have no  repercussions of getting my money back for damages   and lost rent. I I hope that you defer voting on  this issue. We'll continue with public comment. Well, you can go. Okay. I guess I was here first,  but thank you so much. I really appreciate this.   My name is Beth Snyder and I live at 2302 North  Rosemont Circle. My and my h me and my husband   own Empower Homes LLC, a small family-run business  here in Witchah. We're what people call momand pop   landlords. For us, this isn't just an income, it's  a mission. We take great pride in providing safe,   beautiful homes that are well-maintained and  thoughtfully decorated. These three proposed   landlord ordinances were introduced with almost no  notice or collaboration with local local property   owners. I believe your intentions may be good, but  the process was too rushed and the consequences   could harm the very people who are keeping  Witchah's housing stable and affordable. First,   the property maintenance ordinance adds new fines  and inspe and inspection layers that will punish   small responsible landlords right alongside with  the bad actors. Empower homes already maintains   its properties with great care. Yet, one misrepair  or subjective inspection could bring heavy   penalties that's not fair or sustainable. Second,  requiring landlords to accept all housing vouchers   may sound fair, but it forces small landlords into  complex federal programs they aren't equipped to   manage. If that becomes mandatory, many of us  will leave the market. Reducing, not expanding,   quality, affordable housing. Third, the  expanded tenant protection ordinance,   while well-intentioned, goes too far. In reality,  90% of tenants are wonderful people, hardworking   and respectful, but about 10% know exactly how to  exploit the system. They file false complaints,   delay payments, or weaponize laws to harm honest  landlords like us. These new ordinances would   would hand that small group even more ammunition.  I've learned that not everyone shares the same   honest values I do and these rules could easily  destroy the very people trying to do the community   good like me and my husband. If these measures  pass as written, good landlords like us will   leave Witchah's rental market and that will  increase homelessness and housing shortages,   not solve the problems. I respectfully urge  you pause these votes and invite landlords to   the table. Let's work together to craft fair,  balanced solutions that protect tenants and   preserve the small local landlords who make  Witchah a wonderful place people are proud   to call home. Thank you for your time and for  listening to those of us who truly care about   this community. And I think it's wonderful.  I can I can hear on both sides, you know,   there are definite reasons for this. And what  I would like to say is I think 90% of landlords   are just like me and my husband. We're trying  our best to provide quality, affordable housing   for the citizens of this city. And I really hope  that you will go in, the city will get stronger to   punish those truly bad actors. I mean, it sounds  terrible to live in places like that, but that is   definitely not what we have. In fact, I would say  my husband and I through trying to be really good,   honest landlords sometimes end up getting abused  by some of the tenants that we had great faith   in because there are those people that do know  how to exploit the system. Thank you so much. No questions. Craig Gable, 150 East 44th Street  South. Um, I want to you to understand upfront.   I want good law landlords. I want everybody to  be a good landlord and I want tenants to have   good good places to live. And you know,  you've got put forth an idea here that   uh seems we already have the mechanism out  there. We already have laws that should punish   people. I do agree on one thing. There should be  a landlord registry for anybody that lives or any   uh uh group that owns rental property from outside  the city limits. Just outside the city limits,   not 60 miles, not 100 miles, not whatever. Anyhow,  cuz those people are the ones with all the empty   houses that the homeless people are breaking  into. Those are the people that you can't get   served and they get by over and over and over.  Anyhow, so with that said, um I want to tell you   a little bit about myself before we get started.  Uh, I bought my first rental house in 74. I think   in 74 a huge percentage of these people were in  grade school or younger. Anyhow, and uh I bought   my first rental house here in Witchaw in ' 84. At  one time I owned onetenth of 1% of all the rental   houses in Witchaw. Anyhow, that's a lot and it  was crazy. I was crazy when I was younger. Anyhow,   um, but I said I've been in it a long time. I've  been on the end where, you know, we're short on   money and didn't do as good a job as I should  have. And I've, you know, learned and learned   as I've gone along. And u what I've learned  is if you make a house as nice as possible,   you you're pretty discreet on how who you rent it  to that they'll stay with you forever. And if you   answer their call and do fix something within 24  hours, you're going to keep that renter forever.   And I've had renters that 17 years and 126 years,  and both of them died before they moved. Anyhow,   so with that I have recommendations as opposed to  uh complaining about this thing. Um the problem is   this communication to start with. Okay. Um anyhow  to fix this this this communication problem, it's   both for the renters and for the landlords. Okay.  The uh to fix the problems require every lease to   contain a rental checklist for in and out. In  when they sign in, out when they sign out. 14.   It should contain a 14-day 30 notice which allows  the tenant if the property is not fixed properly   within a reasonable period of time, a few days  to give a 14:30 to their landlord. And that gives   them if they don't fix it in 14 days, they're out  in 30 days. They can go find something better.   Uh contact info for uh central inspection. There  should be a sheet in there so that they know who   to call if they have a problem. And theoretically,  if they have a 14, give a 14th day 30 notice, they   should call central inspection. Let's get central  inspection out of there. Um, uh, we need a section   8. If you want us to take section 8 renders, we  need a section 8 checkout, outgoing checklist,   because what happens with section 8, and I did  section 8 for years, and I finally quit it,   uh, is the, um, the tenant gets in there and they,  some of them have to pay a partial of their rent.   Well, if you give them a notice to pay part of  that rent, they do some damage in the house,   pull a plug in out, take a a smoke detector down,  they call the inspector. Well, then you can't   collect your rent that much. You get it up there.  You'd call the inspector to come out. By the time   he gets back out there, it's down again. And then  when they finally do get around to moving, their   lease is over and you're not going to renew it and  stuff, they leave the place this deep or trashed.   And I said, they need a checkout list. And those  people need to be penalized inside the system so   that they don't rent again or at least a month  or so they can't rent. in in order to be fair   um require an automatic small claims case whenever  an eviction is filed so that the you know right   now a person has to go in evict somebody and  then you have to go file a small claims code   it turns into a nightmare and a timeconsuming  one um you know let's talk about emery gardens   okay you know it's bad okay you could get with  that inspector you could get a a a warrant to go   in and inspect every one of those properties  you could put a case against every property   you could put the the bill for that into the  hundreds of thousands and whatnot. And like I   said, then whenever you you guys identify those  15%, make sure that there's some kind of little   resource out there to just help somebody  get from one to the other. Maybe the the   um deposit, you know, might be 300, might be  $500 or something like that. And I said, you   could fix this problem a lot. Please delay this  item until it can be fixed. Thank you. [Music] Council member Hoheisle. Uh thank you, Mayor. I  did just want to I appreciate some of the insight   there. I did just want to touch on one thing that  you had brought up. Um the vacant homes that is a   big issue in a lot of our neighborhoods for a  variety of reasons. You're not lying. A lot of   people do break in there. They cause damage. Um  squatters and whatnot, some drug issues that come   with it. Um, so I did want to just talk about  um two things here real quick. One, the state   has been considering uh doing a probate process  because one of the reasons for a lot of vacant   homes is there's no designated um inheritor after  somebody passes away. So, the state is looking at   possibly doing a probate process for homes under  I think maybe they were looking $180,000 or so   to help with that process because it can often be  an expensive and timeconuming um issue that leads   to little or no resolution. Um, another one is  so I just want to put that out on your radar so   that way if you are having discussions with some  of your elected officials, you might bring this   up and see if that's something you would support  or not. Another one is um and this one is kind of   touchy, but right now we have to wait for vacant  properties to fall five years behind on taxes   before we can have any action. Um and that's  that's fine because I want to give everybody   I don't want to kick people out of their homes  for not being able to afford their taxes. Um,   but whenever there are bad actors who are just  letting their property sit on a corner and   depreciate and fall into disrepair, uh, it would  be nice to have some sort of recourse to get that   property. Either we crack down on it and are able  to, uh, move it along or get somebody in there who   will actually take care of their property.  So, those are two issues that we are facing   with vacant properties in our neighborhoods and  some solutions that we are looking at, including   on the state level. So again, just um some  information to provide for the public out there. Okay, so it's back to public comment now. Okay.  Um Tracy Terrell, um address 1526 Northwest   Lyn and Witchaw, District 6. Um but I also have  property in every single one of your districts.   Um, I do want to thank you for the ones that took  my call and text messages over the weekend to try   to understand this clearly. Um, couple of things  that I do want to mention. Um, I was going to get   up here and give a speech pretty much that  everyone else has already given, right? But   as a realtor and somebody who cares about every  housing, everyone's housing needs in this city,   even our unhoused neighbors, there's a couple  of recommendations um, uh, Council Member Tuttle   that I would like to bring up. Uh Malcolm Gladwell  wrote a book called The Tipping Point. And one of   the things that they were able to change, make  major systemic changes in the New York system   um or in New York City crime system was about  doing something very small like catching people   who were jumping bears to get on the subway. And  what they found is whenever they had enforcement   on those little issues systemically it created  the ability to be able to change the directory   later. And I think sometimes on these complex  social issues we have to look at what are   some things that are within our control to be  able to facilitate this conversation further.   While there are some really great things on  this and one of my biggest concerns is that   all of this will be completely tabled and I know  most of you from having conversations know that   we do need to have accountability to property  owners. I have vacant houses right now because   they were just remodeled and they were trashed  in 2 and 1/2 months later. Right. And with that,   those property is that property is going to sit  until I'm able to get back to it and rehab that,   right? Um, with that being said, there are  also things and initiatives that are going   on right now to increase landlord engagement.  United Way, the COC, continuum of care, um,   is currently hosting landlord engagement times to  try to increase the number of landlords that can   learn about all the bureaucracy and the things  that happen behind the scenes with section 8   housing or housing choice vouchers. Right. So, it  all goes back to when Mr. Anderson, when you first   presented this back in August of 2023, one of  the very first items on that agenda was education and education for property owners, education for  tenants, right? So, the city of Witchaw Housing   Authority created a handbook and that handbook  is available on the city of Witchaw's website.   Now following you on Facebook, I see all of  the concerns from tenants that are voicing   their opinions and feeling like they have been  unheard. Right? So I think it's an opportunity   for us right now to then go out and say what's the  communication strategy that tenants have to feel   respected and validated when there are concerns  to ensure that there isn't going to be retaliation   and uh having evictions and understanding what  that process looks like. I have a tenant right   now across the street from one of my properties  who's having an issue with her property owner and   she's like, "Well, what do I And I said, "Well,  hun, these are real concerns. I'm not providing   legal advice, but what I would tell you is that  there is an avenue called a 14-day 30." I said,   "But you have to be prepared at the end of that 14  days. If he doesn't correct it, then you need to   be finding another place." And she's like, "Well,  I can't afford to find another place." And I said,   "Okay, so here's the thing. Here's the power  that you do have is let's come up with a plan,   an action plan of how we can try to get you out  of this situation. Now it may not be right now   but it could be that next step. So when we go  back and we look at these issues I also have to   look at where's the community support services to  protect individuals that are facing these types of   situations and we are having those discussions and  those discussions are ongoing. But I do think as   our council, we need to be doing a better job of  communicating what are things that tenants can do,   what are things that property owners can do to  start bridging that communication gap. Because   at the end of the day, guys, it doesn't matter  what relationship you're in. Whether it's a   tenant landlord situation, whether it's a council  and your constituents, it all starts with having   communication with one another to bridge that  gap. Thank you very much for your time today. I'm short. Hello. Good morning, Council Mayor  Woo. It's nice to see you guys again. For those   of you who are not familiar with my work,  my name is Donna Garcia. I'm a nurse and a   family nurse practitioner doctorate student. I'm  getting ready to graduate. Next time you see me,   I'll be Dr. Donna. Um, so what we do, I'm the  executive director and co-founder of Grassroots   Bridgebuilders ICT. We're a nonprofit organization  providing trauma-informed homeless um, uh,   advocacy and peer-based housing navigation.  So, every day I'm working alongside tenants   and landlords, case managers to help individuals  transition from homelessness into stable housing.   One of our uh our team operates at the direct  intersection of public health and housing access.   Grassroots builders is built on collaboration.  We partner with property owners who open their   doors to voucher recipients, low-income families,  and individuals rebuilding their lives. Most of   these landlords are not large corporations.  They're small business owners who live here.   They care deeply about their tenants, and  they often carry the financial and emotional   burdens of maintaining older properties on super  tight margins. Through these partnerships, we've   learned that communication and collaboration work.  When landlords, outreach providers, and tenants   collaborate, evictions decrease, units stay  habitable, and neighborhoods stabilize. That's   why I'm concerned about the proposed landlord  registration and code enforcement changes,   which we don't have time or my personal scope to  go into right now. So while the intent to is to   improve housing safety is commendable, a broad  registration system without a path to resolution   could unintentionally harm the very people that  we rely on to uh keep housing affordable. Many   code violations already fall under HUD's inspire  inspection requirements, which I believe Sally can   correct me are coming on uh line in 20 uh 26.  Creating the second level layer of reporting   and penalties can result in duplications and  conflicting standards particularly for landers   landlords who are renting to our voucher holders.  If we uh increase this regulatory complexity as   we've heard without support we're risk losing  these good landlords that we've worked so hard to   identify. They're doing their best but they simply  lack the c the capital or the manpower to upgrade   immediately. And every lost landlord means fewer  affordable houses for the next family trying to   get off the street. There's a better way. Witchaw  already manages restoration and rehabilitation   funds through that we've heard of. Um these funds  can be expanded or redistributed to help small   property owners achieve the compliance rather  than penalizing them for a lack of resources.   Imagine if we created a clearly advertised pathway  within city hall. a one-stop application process   connecting landlords on the registry to local  nonprofits, LLC's, and contractors who can   assist with affordable repairs or make ready work.  This would transform the registry from a list of   violations into a community problem-solving tool.  One that promotes collaboration, transparency,   and a shared accountability. Now, I didn't come  to you with just recommendations. I came with   results today. At Bridgebuilders, we've developed  exactly that kind of pathway. and you'll probably   hear from a couple ambassadors who are living it.  Our trauma-informed housing restoration program   pairs property repair um and healing with skill  building. When a unit is vacated or in disrepair,   we bring on individuals who are waiting for  housing, many overcoming trauma, addiction, and   years of instability, and they help prepare the  unit for the next family moving in. This approach   gives landlords labor and fast turns around, and  helps participants get hands-on job experience,   structure, and most importantly, purpose. It  transforms code compliance into a community act   of rebuilding. Each project involves the property,  strengthens the neighborhood, and helps people   rebuild their own stability at the same time. It's  proof that restorative housing is both possible   and effective. Real solutions that save money,  build equity, and restores dignity. If the city   supported and scaled community-based restoration  like this, and if tenants got involved feeling so   passionately to give their time and their sweat  equity, then we can see uh compliance that no   longer relies on property loss and punitive uh  measures. We would be able to achieve safety   and health without sacrificing ownership. I do  have a couple recommendations for the council   as written. We should add citizens and nonprofit  oversight to any advisor or appeals board as is   mentioned in the language. Um create city uh hall  restoration pathways that connect those landlords   on the registry. Um and publish annual resort uh  reports. All those good things that we can do to   keep accountability. Mayor Woo and council  members, Witchah's housing future depends   on collaboration, not on punishment. The registry  alone cannot fix code issues, but a registry with   built-in pathways for assistance and partnership  can. Let's connect people with those who need uh   help and are ready to provide that kind of help.  The resources are available to keep units safe,   preserve affordable housing, and promote dignity.  So, thank you for your time. Appreciate you. Thank you. Good morning, mayor, vice mayor,  council, and Mr. city manager. I do have a   couple of questions. My name is Leavant Williams  and I do have a question. Even just starting out,   I thought I heard something about  69 cases that have been presented   and went forward. I thought I heard 45,500  were dismissed and maybe another 500 that   went nowhere. Are we asking why they're  dismissed? Why they didn't go any place?   That would be one thing that I would ask and that  I would like to know. Why are the cases not going   any place, especially if there's something  wrong? I appreciate everybody who is here,   everybody that is here. I appreciate the  landlords, but you are hearing very little   from renters, especially renters that have some  type of a situation in the place they are in.   So yes, I I hear the landlords and and I just want  to say from the beginning, it's not an attack on   landlords. We know that there are many many many  responsible property owners doing great work and   doing great things to provide safe quality  housing. But this is about some that don't do   this. Some are not there. I would say that right  now I'm representing those little kids that go   to school. Runny nose, sneezing, breathing hard.  That could be from mold. I'm talking about kids   that could pass away from being exposed to some of  the things that our young people are being exposed   to today. Then as a teacher, I I see those kids.  As a person who looks at equity, I'm wondering,   are all rental homes the same? No. There are some  people who fix up a home just barely enough that   it will pass code. That it will pass code. And  sometimes it doesn't pass code. And sometimes we   don't know what happened. There are some landlords  who have a 100 plus homes that they rent out.   what is the quality that they're renting out? Do  we have any idea of those types of issues as well?   And then I I look at things from uh the position  of myself as being a AARP volunteer and I'm   looking out for my seniors because that was what  I stood on as a council member, my seniors and my   young people as a teacher and now as a senior  myself. Those are very important things that   we need to look at. Are all rentals the same?  Obviously not. And then I I look at the time   that I was a city council member and and I look at  some of the things that I did that really hit the   tip of the deal pretty much like council member  Johnson Hohheisle who went into some of these   places that were not livable. Later on, I went I  went into one and found out you should have worn a   hazmat suit because that's what the inspectors put  on, a hazmat suit. No, I didn't do that. And then   there was an area that is a huge it was a huge  concern for me. It was an area where we took a   survey of that part of the community and they told  us that the city forgot that they lived there.   It was in terrible condition. The city forgot  they lived there. That was the way that group of   people felt. And so we checked even further. The  person that was working me with me at the time,   she said, "Miss Williams, don't go in there and  sit down." Well, I did. I went in there and I sat   down and I talked with people. But there was one  lady who just sit on the porch. A seniorly lady   just sit on the porch most of her time. She had  a a a bed sheet that was around her porch area   and she would sit there. I lost this little old  lady to death and I know that it was because of   the living condition that she was in. Is that on  the document, her death certificate? Probably not.   But I know that she died because of the living  conditions that she was in. So I applaud you. I   applaud you for moving this and looking at this  again. But think of all of those that you don't   know that have passed away because of where they  live. That is so important. Please think about   this. Don't wait another year. For 10 years, we  didn't move it. You have the opportunity to move   this in the direction that it needs to go. Thank  you so much for the opportunity, Council Member   Hoheisel. Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, Levant.  I appreciate all that. Um, I I don't want to be   respectful of the people standing in line. So,  when we're done with that comment, if maybe we   could have somebody from our inspection units or  MABCD or maybe Troy come up and talk about some   of our difficulties in prosecuting some of these  cases. And then also to touch on Levant's issue,   one of the complaints I get um most commonly is  um slum lords essentially just painting over black   mold, trying to cover it up that way in order  to pass inspection. So, uh, yeah, that's another   concern that I hear quite a bit of as well.  Thank you. My name is Michelle Small Clifford,   330 West 2nd Street North, number 48812, Witchaw,  Kansas 67201. This is Darla, my service dog. I'm   here to provide a more personal firsthand account  to what it's like living in a contaminated space.   I became disabled after living in an  apartment with very poor air quality.   And I'm very sad to report that the  same has now happened to my mother. Um,   I'd like to say right off the bat that 15%  dismissal of the environmental complaint   cases does not equate to 85% compliance on the  part of the landlord. Mold is very slow growing.   There are very there are many uh opportunities  to abate for a watchful landowner, a watchful   landlord. The International Building Code also  I'd like to amend. It does not specifically   address mold, mildew, or fungus. However, it does  include provisions related to moisture control   and unsafe conditions that can could contribute  to mold growth. emphasizing the need to treat   the underlying causes of excess moisture. Experts  have said that mold can cause respiratory issues,   but it's not against Witchah's housing code. You  can read more on this at https www.canansas.com in an article provided by Celia Hack from kmuw  July 10th 2023. Our National Institutes of Health   Clinical Center writes, "Chronic exposure  to air pollution causes cytogenic damage,   DNA strand breakage, epigenetic changes, and  altered gene expression." I think this is very   important. We need to understand landlords  that it's tantamount to holding a loaded   gun to the heads of your tenants. It doesn't  affect just this generation. gene expression,   you're reaching into their future  generations. Okay. All these changes   are associated with higher risk factors for  many diseases, especially for cancers. Gorani   Azam and others 2016. Mold is present in every  environment to some extent. But when a resident   claims that mold is causing or worsening a health  condition, it then becomes a fair housing issue. I want to say thank you as many others have  to the landlords who cared enough to show up,   the property managers who care  enough to keep the properties   in good good condition for those of us  who need places to live that are safe. But I sadly want to highlight that  the memorandum which Councilman   Johnson has cared enough to move  his feet to put on the board today,   it's in minority compared to the number  of states across the country which have   bothered to do same on behalf of their  paying citizens, many of them well-paying.   I know someone who spends $2,500 a month on rent  in a luxury building and has had a problem getting   their maintenance to remove a a black moldy  minlit. That's a relatively easy problem to fix. Nonetheless, we do have predatorial landlords,  predatorial property management companies who   are slow to respond. They have a tendency to  ignore or avoid the states where the laws are   more stringent and they tend to go to places  where there the laws are more lax and they   can find vulnerable populations on which to feed.  They make their money on the backs of sick people   eventually sick people. And I have to say that  they're often underinsured. So we spend our days,   well, not me anymore since I'm disabled,  but honest people spend their time going   to work day after day to pay the bulk of  their expense, which is rent or mortgage.   And then they find that after all of that,  they're left with tremendous medical debt and   nowhere to live after their homes are found to be  condemned and unlivable and they're recommended   to move out by their doctors. So, we have to  stand up. There has to be a standard. Witchita   has to make a law to say that mold is not okay  in homes. It's got to be illegal. Thank you. Hi everyone. Uh my name is Lisa Hatrop. Um  my address is 297 South Persian. Um madame   mayor and council members. Uh my husband and I  have accepted section 8 in the past and would   like to relate to you why we stopped. We have  been hearing it claimed that if we had problems   with section 8 tenants, the city will back up  landlords and hold tenants responsible for any   damage they cause. But in our experience,  we have never had a section 8 tenant that   did not cause damages far exceeding their  deposit. And the city has been of no help   whatsoever. Our last experience with section 8,  the experience that resulted in our decision to   no longer accept section 8, was a tenant who  deliberately vandalized our property. Briefly,   every single wall in the entire house had multiple  holes. Multiple windows were broken. Every window   screen on the house had been sliced. And there  is more, but I won't go into the entire list.   This house has passed section 8 inspection for  her to move in. These were most certainly not   pre-existing conditions. We did call the section  8 office to inform them of the damages. We thought   they might like to know what this tenant had done  because this tenant was still in the section 8   program and still had a voucher. We requested  that an inspector come out to view the damages.   The first person we spoke to actually laughed out  loud. She said only a supervisor can authorize an   inspector to come out. So we requested to speak  to a supervisor. A supervisor did call the next   day only to tell us the damages were our own  fault because we did not mitigate by conducting   monthly walkthrough inspections. So we informed  the supervisor that we would no long that we   would mitigate against future damages by no longer  accepting section 8. He responded that he did not   care. What m what landlord does a monthly walkth  through? Would you not consider that harassment?   The cost to repair that house was $4,400 in excess  of the deposit. And we received no help from the   city. Instead, we received laughter and blame.  Every single section 8 tenant that we have ever   had caused damage, and that comes out of our  pockets, a momand pop operation. Why would you   force section 8 on us? We do the majority of  our work and we pride ourselves on being good   landlords and taking care of our tenants and our  property. We have tenants that have stayed with us   for over a decade, but section 8 has been nothing  but a nightmare for us. We don't understand why   you're punishing us. Thank you very much. I have  a follow-up question to that and that will be if   you can provide the name of the individual uh that  inspector's name or supervisor who laughed at you.   um and basically um did not hear you. Can you  just provide that name to the city manager? Okay. Hello. Uh good afternoon, mayor, vice mayor,  councilman. Thank you for having us. Uh thank   you for this opportunity to speak with  you all. Uh my name is Cody Arnett. I   um my family and I own PMI Witchaw. It's a  property management company here in town. also   a landlord. I'm also a tenant. I've been a tenant  in slums before. Uh I'm born and raised Witchaw.   I love this city. I love the people here. I I  can't express enough of to all of you tenants,   landlords. My heart's with you because I've been  in multiple situations. I've been, you know,   the kid whose mom's trying to make it and we're  living with mold and we're living with I've had   to, just as you, Councilman Johnson, I've had to  look a a single mother in the eye and tell her,   "I don't know what to do for you cuz she  has mold and she can't afford to move and   a landlord can't afford afford to remediate  the issue." Well, then the questions asked,   "Well, if you can't afford it, you you  shouldn't rent out your home." Well,   they they were able to afford it before, but then  taxes and insurance go up. Uh maybe neglect and   abuse from the tenant happens. Just as we've heard  before, we've made it we've made this property as   clean and as functional as possible. We we vetted  the tenant. We made sure that they were good   um and that they were qualified and they take  care of the home. Something happens, you know,   they get hit in in a car accident, they get hooked  up on paink painkillers, crack, whatever. mental   health issue. This perfectly fine tenant destroys  the place in months. What a situation. And I I've   just I've seen it in so many being a property  manager, I've seen both sides. And our job in   property management is to be in the middle and  to be an advocate for both sides just as your   job is in the city to a degree, right? I I I want  tenants to have good homes. I want landlords to   be able to be landlords and to afford it. We  have to have some better collaboration here.   Uh these these ordinance though I don't oppose the  intention. I oppose punishing the landlords. Let's   collaborate. Let's not punish. If you pass these  ordinance today or if you pass them as they are,   I I'm I'm telling you, mark my words, it's going  to give it's going to be an adverse effect. Rents   are going to have to jump. They're going to have  to increase. They're already so high. In the   years that I've been doing, the years I've been  doing this, I've seen rents go way up. And as a   landlord, great. But it's just to keep it's  just to break even, man. Like, it's it's not   to make money. We're not rolling it down here.  We're just trying to survive as landlords. But   same as tenants. How can how can you afford  three times the rent when rent's so high?   Well, I can't move you into a property and half or  more of your income is going to rent. That's not   going to work. I'm putting you at a disadvantage.  I'm putting the landlord at disadvant or myself at   a disadvantage. That's not fair for anybody. So,  if we're going to make that a protected class,   good luck. You're going to see tons of evictions.  And that's terrible. And I don't want that for   anybody. And I just I I can't express enough that  this is important. I'm glad this is happening.   Probably unpopular opinion, but I'm glad it's  happening because we're finally getting a dialogue   going here. And instead of passing these ordinance  the way they are, let's keep the momentum going.   Let's keep the conversation going. Let's bring  everyone to the table and let's solve these   problems for our community because it's it's  generations after us that are going to get the   negative or the positive impact from our decisions  today. And you know that, I know that. Let's let's   get together. Let's solve these problems together.  Let's not just punish one side or the other. Both   sides have their issues and we shouldn't have this  division. We should be people. We're human beings   at the end of the day. We're human beings. Let's  be human beings to each other. Thank you. I'm just   going to make a quick comment. Uh please put your  name uh on the list outside uh communications has   uh provided a list uh outside these doors if  you want to be part of that engagement process. Before we continue, I just want to make mention  that we did order pizza for the individuals who   are here today. I know that this is going to  be a very long meeting. So, outside the chamber   um hall, you'll be able to grab a slice of pizza.  You had me a pizza. Hello everybody. Madame Mayor,   vice vice mayor and council members. Uh my name  is Jerry Mendoza. I work for Menanite Housing uh   2145 North Topeka. And we focus on um affordable  housing um and uh income based housing. And so,   uh, we work with LITCH, uh, HUD and section 8, uh,  programs throughout the city. And I, my values,   uh, go in line with what, uh, Menanite  Housing is is as a transplant from,   uh, inner city Dallas. Uh, don't hold that  against me, though. Uh, I appreciate it. Um, but,   um, their section 8 was a bad phrase to hear  when I was growing up. It meant like like he   was saying, there is there's unlivable conditions.  And what we strive to do is make these conditions   for these tenants uh that can't normally  afford regular housing um to where it's it   you can't tell the difference between regular  housing and affordable housing. And so that's   our goal. Um and so with that, we we see I'm  we're advocates for the tenants as well. Um we   want to make sure we we are offering anything we  can. We're working with programs too that uh are   reaching out to homeless individuals as well.  Um but with this with with this new ordinances,   I feel like we're it's it's open-ended to  where it's going to it's going to double   uh or it's going to duplicate the charges that  we work with or the inspections that we have   with Inspire. Our LiteTek and our uh our section  8s are are with Inspire. And as as they mentioned,   HUD is going to start in 2026. Um, and as they  also mentioned, HUD um has more vouchers than   than they do um um funds for these this program.  And so I'm afraid that with these increased fees,   uh we will not be able to offer as much uh  affordable housing as we have in the past because   of the of the the the increases in fees. And so  we we'll have to increase uh rental um rates. And   so we want to make sure that uh like they've said  before, we have an open dialogue and um have a a a   round a round table or a a a gathering where you  get both tenants and landlords to come together   uh both from the the affordable housing side  and the regular um conventional housing. And   so to get to get an idea of where we can meet in  the middle because it is a problem. Uh we do see   it. Um and I'm standing here. I can't say that all  our housing is perfect. There are some issues with   some of our aging housing. You know, we have  issues that that that come up more regularly   and and we try to to get in front of those, but  there are issues. There are times where, you know,   it it it has to it it it's more time than when we  we feel like it needs to be. And so, um we we feel   like if we get together and work together, we can  create a program that that benefits both sides.   uh it doesn't harm one or the other. It it it  penalizes those people that are are are doing   it on purpose are are out there for just the money  and they don't care who gets in in the way of that   of that money train. And so I appreciate you guys  all the hard work that you've done and I just ask   that we just temporarily delay it so we can get  more information and and figure out who can come   to the table and and work as a team and and get  that get that program to the best of anywhere.   um you know in in other states they'll they'll  replicate what we have here in Witchto. Thank you   very much. Have a great day. Thank you, Council  Member Ho Heisel. Thank you, Mayor. Uh just one   quick question, sir. And for anybody else in the  crowd who maybe has a experience with this, how is   the new Inspire um method? It's very strict. Very  strict. But yes. Yes. We've been working with it   with for LITC uh a while now and so we know what  to expect and so um we get in front of it. I'd   like to say most of our well our maintenance team  has gotten an average of maybe 97 98% on all most   of our inspections. So, uh it is it is meant  to keep us on on the straight and narrow and   so and they they get they get on us if we have any  issues. Okay. I know it was also designed to maybe   give some leeway on the bottom end with things  that aren't necessarily as serious issues. So,   I am curious. They give us a a a a variable date  time to get those uh corrected. Some are are   life-threatening, so they give us a 24 to 48 hour  uh time to turn it around. Others are not so much,   so they give us a little more leeway. U but  the ones that that do affect the tenants,   they they do focus on getting them uh turned  very quickly. I appreciate that. Yeah, I have   just been curious how that's been working out  since it's rolled out. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Hello again. Um, excuse me. I may get  really good at this one of these days. U,   my name is Sarah Calling and I'm 2116 South Senica  number 302. Formerly I was homeless at Tin City.   I also lived at the economy in. I also lived at  the Frontier. I also lived at 2141 South Erie and   before that I lived at the residence behind  Grace Baptist Church as a facility manager.   Um, some of those addresses you might recognize  as things that have had violations and some of   those things, um, the house I had before I was  homeless on Erie, um, it had an incident that   happened there. But before something had happened  there, we had several nuisance reports on,   um, whether we had no trash service at our house  after during COVID when we lost our jobs. Um,   our grass is too long, we didn't have a carport  that was enclosed enough. Uh if we had our   trailer on the side of our house, it could not  have trash on it. It was repeated um repeated   calls and um violations like in a certain amount  of time. And it came to the point where like our   yard we had moved into a house that had been  basically abandoned. It the person the land   uh landlord was um the pastor's stepmom and  there had been she took care of the house.   They had electricity which meant that people  were breaking into the house and you know but   she didn't want to lose that house and we moved in  into it after our pastor had passed away. We had I'm trying to think of how many calls we had  just as far as the trash when we moved into it   was trashed. And so we had moved in and there  was things that we had to do in order to make   sure that it was um safe. But we were getting  calls about stuff that was happening in the   yard. And my point, long story short, um some  of these calls that people get are neighbors   that multiple calls and a lot of the times people  aren't seeing what's going on with the tenants,   you know, and this hold on sorry I have one  hand and this is something that's perfect. I   just got housing and then I was in a car  accident. I broke both my ankles and my   wrist which could jeopardize me because I  can unable unable to work and uh sorry I'm sorry on maintaining safe healthy and comp housing  is essential. We must recognize that removing   homelessness starts before we put people in  homelessness. And this is our chance as Witchaw   maybe to start something new. Because if we always  do what we always do, we're always going to get   what we always get. We keep changing ordinances  and making policies to enforce on these tenants   and on these land owners. But what we're not  doing is addressing the people inside of those   house. Like with the church, the house is only  as valuable as the people that are inside of it.   And people are real people. You know, I like um  gathered with gathered strong. I love the idea   that they have all of these organizations that  collaborate and like we have all these resources   that are provided for the homeless, but a lot  of people are disqualified because they might   fall under certain categories, but not others.  I mean, some of the people that we have that are   homeless don't have a phone or contact to. But  before they were homeless, they did have houses,   too. you know, they didn't I was a according to my  neighborhood, I became one of those bad tenants.   You know, it didn't matter that nobody saw that my  grandson had passed away or that my son-in-law was   killed. They saw my trash was piling up. We need  to I believe and before we start just cracking   down on things because they don't fit into code  or because they're they're violations, we need to   address maybe why these things are happening in  these neighborhoods. Why is the person down the   street, why isn't their lawn getting taken care  of? Why did all of a sudden their trash piled   up and you know things looks they look vacated?  You know, it's usually something that has nothing   to do with the actual building. It has to do  with people going through things. You know,   maybe their lawnmower broke down. of a violation  or penalizing them or the glass gets too long.   Something breaks in a house and a lot of people  are too afraid to ask um their landlord to fix   it because they're worried that they're going  to be moved. When stuff like that piles up,   then nothing I wanted to say a lot more. Um I will  write it but I think that this gives us a chance   to maybe create a board of people that will go and  before it becomes a violation talk to these people   you know have services and like an umbrella to  if they are having problems taking care of these   violations services provided so that nobody loses  their home nobody gets it's not a legal problem it   is a person problem. Thank you council member Ho  Heisel. Thank you mayor. Um, we do have a program   like that with the city. They do reach out um  and try and help people, especially people who   do have issues, disability issues, aging issues.  I know we've worked with SP Mowing uh quite a   bit to help get some issues resolved that way as  well. So, we do have that program out there. Um,   I think we can request it whenever people  do call in to see if that's an appropriate   um path to go go on. And of course, we don't want  to be punitive. A lot of times we start with the   education piece given the 30-day fix a ticket um  and really try to be humane in how we deal with a   lot of these issues. Can I say something? We'll  take two more, one from this side and one from   this side and take a short break if that is Sure.  Mayor, when we do that, can we also have a list so   these individuals can go in the line that they've  already lined up as well so we don't have to   recreate the line? That would be great. Can this  clerk provide a list of names for each side? So,   we'll take one from this side and one from this  side and then we'll take a short break. Hi,   my name is Destiny Williams and I am an ambassador  for the Grassroots Bridge Builders. Um, I became   homeless in um at the end of April. I do now have  housing. I am happy that I have some place to call   a home. Um, but it was a struggle to even get to  that destination. Um, I went through the whole   summer with looking at buildings while I'm walking  down the street. Um, having my homeless moments,   you know, looking at like empty buildings that  are, you know, across the city. Why couldn't these   be, you know, refurbished? Why can't, you know,  like the hospital that's just vacant, you know,   why can't that be something that is for, you know,  transitional housing for the homeless? Um, I went   through a lot just being in that situation. But I  also started understanding what was the point for   me being out there. You know, I have education.  I am a CNA by trade. Um, you know, and it was   hard when I lost my job back in April. I had lost  it at the beginning of the month and then towards   the end it was just one of those, "Wow, you're  on the streets. Look at this. Nobody to help me,   no nothing." And at that moment, I decided  that I wasn't going to ask anybody for help.   But one particular day I seen my friend, she's  coming along with this uh RV. She kind of helped   me out of my situation. There is no kind of  to it. She helped me out of my situation,   guiding me to a destination that has me with my  daughter and we are both striving and surviving.   I just want to say that maybe y'all should  revisit the whole landlord thing because   some landlords are pretty good, but their  houses, you know, their facilities might be   in some type of disarray. Maybe, you know, look  into seeing how you could help them instead of   uh uh throwing people out because they're  u their housing isn't up to par. Um, I thank you for at least hearing  my side of the story. Thank you. Reset this or My name is Kristen Williams. Um,  8603 East Malbury. I own a property management   company called Granite Key. Um, the reason that I  created that company, I'm not going to take a lot   of time, but I was on the opposite end. I used  to work in aviation, um, and I was a single mom   for a while, and I would always have trouble  with landlords, um, getting something fixed,   whether I was paying for a higherend house  or a low-end house. When you're a single mom,   you just get the end of your lease and you get But  a lot of times, I've I've had landlords show up   while I was breastfeeding and com I mean, it's I'm  being graphic, but and walk in your door with no   notice. I've had air conditioners go out and say,  "I don't know what to tell you." And but however,   that said, I was also an aviation professional  and my um studies at Witchaw State University is   international business. One of the things you have  to remember, I know everybody's focusing on and   I do care for people. I love people, but it's a  business primarily. There's a small percentage you   inherit property. It's been in your family a long  time and you're just the landlord by default. Um   and you don't really know all the laws. And that's  why um when I decided to create um the company,   I did have um was working on a homelessness um  project with Witchaw State. And we interviewed and   videoed we we made a whole production of different  people that have been in and out of homelessness.   Found out some came from really good homes,  went through a divorce, some had drug issues,   some were abused and abandoned. There's a We are  just an area of people. So, one of the things I   get is a lot of my clients are international. Some  of them are not even American citizens and they   just want you to take this certain amount on. It's  all about budget. It's all about profit and loss   statements. It's all about But one of the things  that I do when I first get somebody is I I try   to look them up and find out more about who they  are. Cedric County does not have a good database   for that. It just tells you who owns it. You see  a lot of LLC's like you said, you got to look them   up. you've got to dig down and find out more about  that person or the owners of the conglomerate, the   individuals that um I do a lot of work for um all  in Kansas and we're also in Oklahoma. So Oklahoma   City has a a situation like like this. One of the  things is that I would suggest that we table this   and you have to remember we have multifamily  properties, we have single family properties,   we have different kinds of situations that where  you can't just put it all in low section 8.   I couldn't take a section 8 customer recently  because their voucher was for 2400, but the zip   code said that the rent was too high and it was  only 1300. It was a really nice fully remodeled   home and they could not use their voucher because  they were turned down by section 8. So, there's   a lot more than you realize that goes on. It is a  business and it's governmental. You've got to have   a finance background, a marketing background.  You're you're a counselor sometimes. I there's   times I love hearing a tenant has gotten married  or they had a baby. Um different things. But then   we also have real issues. If I have an owner that  will not fix a mold issue, if I I we literally   this whole pile here is checklist. I'm very nerdy.  So we get the property, we checklist the house. We   do a property inventory inspection and then we  make a a a report for the owner. Say, "Listen,   this is what we're seeing. We have all the assets.  Your HVAC is bad. You need to clean your vents."   And then they get mad. They think you're trying  to spend all their money because it is again a   business. So we try to find the spread. What do  you need to have? And then we have to stink for   our supper as a property management company to  say we also have to follow fair housing laws,   fair credit act, uh America with Disabilities  Act and on and on and on and every new thing that   comes forward. That's why for people that wonder  about why they say three times the rent, it's just   an average put out there. What that means is your  rent is one amount, but you have electric, gas,   water, insurance, utilities, I mean, yard care,  cleaning the house on top of that. That's why we   say it's not that you have to be a millionaire to  rent the house, but if your rent is $500, well,   then you've got, you know, you're going to have  city of Witchaw water, you know, it adds up. So,   well, we want to make sure you can afford to  move in or you need to look at a different   house. And so we have there's a song called um  well I'm not going to sing it but um Fiddler on   the Roof has a song called Matchmaker and we  we do interviews to match people with their   properties. So honestly there's owners that I  have quit because they won't and it and have   lost income. But there's also owners that I  praise and most of our landlords are awesome.   So, some of them here spoke today that we do some  leasing for and we know that every checklist that   the tenant has the chance to find out what's wrong  because we see every house has scars because they   do brand new ones. I've seen them put faucets in  backwards. But the the point of it is I really   think we need to table it into workshops based on  is it multif family, single family, rural, local,   and then really give it a more serious thought on  how to handle the situations case by case. Thank   you. Thank you again. And we have now taken the  names of individuals in both lines. We have not   uh the city clerk will be doing that right now.  We will take a short 15minut break so everyone   can go take a quick break. 15 minutes  120 we will return. Thank you very much. most council members here in the  room. I think we have all council   members now in the chamber. So, we  will continue with public comment. We will now resume council um  sorry public comment regarding   the item. I know that we had two lists.  We will begin with the right hand side. The first individual is Joe Corey. Was an older seem to have issues with his Are we ready? Okay. I'm sorry I'm late. I  was born late. My wife says I'm always late,   so I'm late again. Uh, thank you for hearing me.  Thank you to the council for having this meeting.   Uh my name is Joe Corey. I live at 3117 North  Ridgeport Street, Witchaw, Kansas. My wife and   I are small landlords. Have a small property  management company. I'm the single employee.   I've had a hard time convincing my wife to come  work for me because she doesn't like spiders,   uh roaches, and mice. So, you're looking at the  only employee here today for my company. First,   I'd like to say that uh as a small landlord, I  consider these proposed changes to be an undue   financial responsibility put on myself and my  wife as well as other companies. Uh we have a   lot of financial responsibilities that you don't  hear about every week, every month, every year.   uh and we don't need you know undue necess undo  unnecessary uh uh financial responsibilities   anymore. I kind of liken this sort of and I don't  want to put this all out of context but is another   attempt by a ruling class to play Robin Hood and  to take from the rich and give to the poor except   most of the people that you're taking from  aren't rich. We're not, you know, we're not   rich people. We're just everyday taxpaying people  just like most of you in the city council are. Um,   I think that most of the rules and pro changes  you're talking about are already on the books   in one fashion or another. Maybe not specifically  spelled out, but there are rules and regulations   in the Kansas statute for landlords and tenants.  Uh, you have local ordinances that are that are   on file already for things like mold and and and  the health issues you're talking about that can   be enforced with the current laws. Uh currently a  landlord has no recourse and no way to recapture   money on a tenant causing some of these property  violations either interior or exteriorly. I went   through this several times this year already  where tenants were were causing violations to   the yard with trash and debris and tall grass  and I ended up cleaning those up because the   tenant would not do so. even had to go to court  and pay fines for those because the tenant would   not do that. Even under the duress of a 30-day  notice or 14:30, they still would not do it. So,   I ended up doing that uh to to save the place from  being shut down by the city. Um the uh there are,   like I said, there are other solutions for the  tenants. Uh they can give written notices to the   landlord. They can call the city inspectors. They  can even call the police perhaps for violations.   And uh they eventually at the end they can  also give a a 30-day notice to move out and   have a landlord pay for those moving charges  and also pay for you know uh loss money by   going to small claims court. So they have legal  recourses that they can do on their own. Uh,   also I'm thinking that at this time I'm I'm  recently uh cleaning up two properties at this   time that the tenants left uh many violations,  code violations like tall grass, uh debris and   furniture outside in the yard. Uh I'm repairing  damaged walls, ceilings, lighting fixtures,   water damaged floors, broken doors, windows,  pet damaged carpeting with pet urine and pet   defecation stains in them. These are all caused  by the tenants. uh not to mention the un the loss   of rent. Uh so in the end here I'm trying to say  that basically if you're seriously considering   this new proposal and it's been mentioned earlier  by several people that if you're going to start   some type of a penalty system and develop list  for tenants, you should also probably do that   for tenants as well. You know we have a lot of  proposed lists nationally for people. You know   you're talking about putting landlords on a list.  You know what would be next? you know, somebody   who carries around two $200 bills in their wallet  or maybe the single mom has more than three kids,   we don't need any more list or or or type things  like that where people are publicly noted for   that. Uh, but if you're going to have this type of  list, I also would say you need to create another   list and another violation list for tenants  who do these things purposely and repeatedly.   I've had many tenants do it repeatedly. And if  you're if you're going to put me on a list and   take me to jail, you should also allow us to do  that. For tenants as well, do this repeatedly. Uh   and I'd say that if there would be a fine or  a fee to pay, I and most of the landlords in   this room would probably gladly pay the tenants  fee if they're not able to to be put on that   list and be registered as a as a as a repeated  violator. Thank you very much for your time today. Hello, my name is Lonnie. I live on 837 North  Gal and I'm a tenant and member of the ICT tenant   union. Members of the union have been involved in  bettering the community of Witchaw for years in   other organizations. They urge all of you to vote  yes on new IPMC standards, yes to ordinance number   52827, yes to ordinance number 52828, and yes to  the reinstatement of the board of code standards   and appeals to ensure housing is habitable. There  should be updated code standards to include black   mold, for example, to be a safety and health  hazard, plus the bare minimum standards to   hold property owners accountable. Tenants provide  their landlords their livelihoods, meaning they   pay rents and are expected to do so even if the  property has issues and is uninhabitable. And   renters have nowhere else to go. If city council  voted yes, this could help reduce slum lords. The   regular landlord that is doing their due diligence  should have nothing to be concerned about. Renters   are the backbone for the city to function. their  time, labor, and money contribute to the future   of Witchah. And if we want to keep dedicated  individuals to investing in their future of   the city, we must establish protections for them  that are long overdue. Just as regulations for   hospitals that are a core function to society,  landlords also need to have some set regulations   because they provide housing also a core function  to the society yet have the least amount. The   need for the proposal approval is affirmed when I  speak to tenants as they're living in conditions   with leaks, black mold, and is making them sick.  Broken appliances, no functional AC in the summer,   no heat for their families in the winter, their  foundations of their home are falling apart,   and the list goes on. Yet, their concerns  are met with demands to pay rent instead.   Tenants need to live in habitable homes and feel  safe enough to bring up any issues that may arise   without fear of retaliation. Currently,  there are more repercussions for tenants   who do not pay rent if they are rather than  when landlords do not acknowledge or pay or   make necessary repairs to rented homes. I've  seen it repeatedly where renters will address   concerns in their living spaces for months or  even years and are ignored and that breaks my   heart. But the moment they are behind on rent for  even one day, property managers and owners will   address the payment firstly instead. Renters in  Witchaw have shared their stories with us about   homes that lack heat during the winter or concerns  that their landlords are about but becomes their   issues become so severe that it has landed in the  hospital. We had someone comment to us that they   addressed a concern of the gas leak with their  furnace and it got so bad that even when the CO2   um and the gas leak was monitor going off, they  were so under uh the they were so sick that they   didn't understand that the beeping was to tell  them that they were in danger. They called their   parents to tell them like maybe you need to  call uh 911 and they ended up in the hospital. So whether it may be mold, leak, or other hazards,  tenants have to survive and are expected to pay   rent because there is nowhere else for them  to go. And income protections, for example,   aren't necessary to ending homelessness in  Witchaw. It's inconceivable to expect someone   in Witchaw to find a home if discrimination on  income is enabled. It is compassionate to vote   yes on income protections and a bit hypocritical  to vote no if preaching to end homelessness in   this city. As someone who works in grassroots  efforts with our unhoused neighbors and income   discrimination is one of the biggest obstacles  that people face when looking for housing.   If you want to make Witchaw an attractive  city, please vote yes. Keep tenants safe   from arbitrary standards set by landlords.  If residents cannot afford to buy a home,   they look to rent. If they cannot afford to rent  or cannot find a property that will accept their   form of income, they become unhoused. Landlords  choose to be landlords. Renters do not have many   other options. So why not make renting safe and  an accessible option? Thank you for your time. Madame Mayor, uh vice mayor, council, thank you  so much for your time. My name is Pat Daniels.   I'm the uh I'm sorry, my address is 14700  East Timberlake Road in Witchah, 67230. I'm   the president and government relations officer for  Rental Owners Incorporated, which is the largest   independent landlord group in Witchah. Um, we  are not a haven for slumlords or for anybody that   is a negligent property manager. Our group was  formed in 1967 with the charter of helping good   landlords become better landlords. Every month  we seek speakers. We've had Sally Stang speak   uh about section 8 and it's very encouraging some  of the changes in that group. However, we have had   tons of reports about horrible issues dealing with  section 8 in the past and that is one reason that   a lot of property owners are very gunshy about  taking that. Uh there are tremendous variances   from one inspector to the next. Um one will  pass the house, another one would violate it for   multiple different things um dealing with the same  house. And again, this is older information. This   does not necessarily impact what's happening there  now. But that is a real concern for people about   being forced to take section 8. Um, I believe I  am the mystery person that council member Johnson   was trying to think of their name. And the same  thing with Tory Anderson. Uh, I did meet with Troy   Anderson on July 24th. We met for a little over an  hour. I did not get a copy of the uh IPMC, but he   showed me different excerpts on his computer. It  was a productive and positive meeting, and I did   go online and look through it. However, what I saw  online was a generic boilerplate version of it. It   did not have all of the modifications in it. Um  I begged him at that time during the meeting to   please be involved in the process. We have worked  hand in hand with the city on previous ordinances,   worked with staff in a positive manner. It was not  adversarial in any way, shape or form. And at the   end of that, we ended up putting our full support  behind the legislation that came forward. But we   did need a little bit of input into that. Being  in this industry and professionals, we do have   insights that may not be something that staff or  others would think of. Uh so we very much want to   be at the table on this and work positively to  move forward and try to reach a point. I'm not   even sure if this is needed or necessary, but  as we delve into it, we can determine that the   number one thing that I see as an issue with MABC  was back when it was called central inspection,   Tom Schultz became the director and he was trying  to solve a problem that nobody before him could   solve. So, he tightened up the amount of time  on the inspections to a 30-day window with one   possible extension beyond that. The courts were  immediately flooded with minor nuisance things,   exterior paint jobs. This is the middle of winter.  You cannot paint a house in December, January,   February. And at that time, there was a no  tolerance policy. I think they have taken a little   more common sense on that now, but there's still  a very short window before you end up in court.   And I think the courts may have inadvertently  become a little apathetic about it because   they're so flooded with cases. Um, court should  be the last resort. The inspector who has boots   on the ground that is looking at your house, that  should be the person that makes the decision about   extensions along with their direct supervisor.  As long as you're making demonstrable progress   on the property, it's a large house. you got a 20%  painted, maybe 30% painted in the first 30 days,   that is absolutely grounds to give another  extension. Now, when they give an extension   and an extension and nothing happens and there's  no valid reason for that, then maybe it's time   to look forward to going into court. But I think  under the current system, things are rolling into   court too quickly and it's almost a production  line type of thing once it gets to court. But we   need to have a lot of carrot and a lot of stick.  But there needs to be a large divide between those   two. And as far as Emmery Gardens and places like  that, it is my understanding that they have the   authority to close that down now. But there is a  huge problem with displacing the people that are   living there. That's bad optics and it's a human  tragedy. They're living in horrible conditions,   but at least they have a roof over their heads.  So, that's a decision that has to be made by the   council and by MABCD. Um, but it's a very, very  tough call, but that can be dealt with without any   of this being added into it. Uh, thank you very  much for your time and I look forward to working   with the city staff and council and and I've  talked to the city manager on numerous occasions   and he's been very proactive and has always been  positive to work with on it. Thank you so much.   Thank you, Pat. Council member Johnson. Thanks,  Mayor. Uh Pat, glad you're here. Sorry that you   were mystery earlier, but glad you were here. I  just had a quick question for you, though. You   said the court process is too fast. Is that the  process now or the process that's being proposed?   They go into court too quickly now. There's  a very short window. You receive your notice   of violation, you get one extension, and then a  uniform criminal complaint, and you're appearing   in court. And again, I think Tom Staltz did the  very best that he could at the time trying to cure   a problem that nobody had been able to cure up to  that point. And it still seems to be a somewhat   uncured problem. But the inspector themselves,  it's our belief, should have the latitude to grant   more extensions, maybe two or three depending on  the size of the project, an 800 ft house versus   a 3,000 foot house. and it's on the same time  frame to do an exterior paint job and rescreen   and rewind. Uh they're not comparable. And then  of course with their direct supervisor, but these   are the boots on the ground people that are really  dealing with it, walking around and looking at it.   When it gets to the judge, it's almost abstract.  He just has to listen to what the inspector says.   And I think we're wasting the judicial time. Um  I think that needs to be reserved for the people   that are really violative and negligent on their  properties. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. Uh good afternoon, Councilman, uh vice mayor,  madame mayor. Uh my name is Michael Mscaro,   and as a member of both ICT Alerta and  the ICT tenants union, I want to speak   today on behalf of the workers and  immigrant tenants in our community,   the ones who are hard at work right this moment  because they can't afford to take time off.   I urge you to support the proposed ordinances  on income protection, the landlord registry,   and stronger housing uh code standards. The union  has uncovered landlords in a local online group   openly advising one another to call US Immigration  and Customs Enforcement, ICE, on tenants as an act   of intimidation, discrimination, and violence that  cannot be tolerated. At the end of last summer in   Aurora, Colorado, a property manager and his  property management company spread rumors of   a gang taking over an immigrant majority  apartment complex. That complex had long   since grown dilapidated. Tenants were asking  for menial repairs and the property manager was   facing legal repercussions for multiple code  violations at multiple properties. Instead,   these rumors were used to justify intimidation  and evictions. In February of this year,   an Illinois landlord faced consequences for  their discrimination when they were ordered to   pay more than $80,000 for threatening to call ICE  on tenants based on perceived immigration status. Despite that win for tenants and immigrants,  those inflammatory narratives from last year   had real consequences. At the end of last month,  a Southshore Chicago landlord profited from the   violation of their tenants constitutional and  human rights regardless of tenants citizen   citizenship status for the purpose of evicting  37 people and intimidating the remaining tenants   in an act uh in an attempt to evict them. This  is the violence that our landlords have been   joking about. And tenants are already being met  with violence and retaliation because they have   asked for repairs by landlords that say if you  think tenants are annoying now in reference to   repair requests and the power these ordinances  offer us. The question I have to ask when an   inconvenienced landlord, property manager, or  rental company is able to profile a tenant rather   than provide the required updates to keep their  property in code. Are my immigrant friends and   family safe under this current system? The tenant  union believes no. Not yet. As I've said before,   local landlords are already comfortable posting  online as though immigration enforcement is their   tool. They casually talk about how annoying  tenants and their repair requests are.   If this is how local landlords speak in public  when they think no one is listening, what kind of   culture exists behind closed doors that leads one  to think this isn't this is appropriate? Not just   from not just as mom and pops or small business  owners, but as individuals in our community. Without a robust landlord registry, code  enforcement, and income protection protections,   our most vulnerable renters remain at risk  of being exploited, harassed, evicted,   or even having their lives further threatened  with immigration enforcement. These ordinance   are not only about housing. They are about  dignity, equity, and safety for all workers   and immigrants who simply want a home and  to live without fear. If we must delay,   then I must ask on behalf of the working tenants  that I am representing today that we return at an   accessible time in the evening after most  are finished with their work for the day.   It isn't fair to the hardworking tenants of  Witchah to go without representation after paying   the wages of these landlords to come and represent  themselves. Thank you each for your time today. Madame Mayor, vice mayor, council members,  Eric maybe. Maybe property inspections address   is 143 North Rock Island, unit 202, Witchaw,  67202, District 1. I come as an inspector. Um,   I'm a third party inspector. I inspect hundreds  of homes every year. I see a lot of what Brandon   Johnson does see. I see it from both tenants and  landlords on both sides. One of the things that I   do like about this bill is the incorporation of  the code, international maintenance code. One,   it sets a standard of what we're inspecting. Two,  when I go to inspect for a tenant, I can pull   through that. If I go to inspect for a landlord, I  still have the the same paperwork to do so. Again,   I'm independent. I'm not representing either case  or either side, but we do inspect hundreds of   properties that are neglected either from tenants  or landlords. Um, we talk about 15% when we put   that into numbers, we're talking thousands of  homes um that are in that condition. 15% sounds   small until we we talk about the number of homes.  That being said, it needs to be fair on both sides   because we do see um the complaints from both  sides. I do we I mold spoke a lot today. There are   landlords out there that do take mold seriously  that do do mold test and and do followup. Those   um landlords should be, you know, u put on the  spotlight because they're doing what they should   be ahead of time before this even came up. That  being said, there are landlords you could do a   million tests, you could do a million inspections  and nothing's ever going to be done. MABC. I kind   of I don't have a lot of trust in them. We  do a lot of new inspection, new construction   inspections, and they're scary. Um, and now we're  adding one more thing to their plate. I don't   see how that's going to accomplish anything.  Something else needs to be done. Um, as far as   that goes as well. Um I heard HUD and um Inspire  brought up the difference about um international   maintenance property code. It actually does have  tenant responsibilities where HUD only has the   financial responsibilities. It doesn't actually  have the maintain maintenance responsibilities. Hello, my name is Adelia Carter and I  live at 4831 Eastwood. I'm a tenant,   a civic engagement graduate, and a sorry, civic  engagement academy graduate and a founding member   with the ICT tenant union. I am here today  because of my conviction that every one of my   neighbors deserves a safe and affordable place  to live. Here in Witchah, Kansas, the minimum   wage still sits at 725 an hour. At that rate, a  tenant would need to work 81 hours per week to   afford a one-bedroom home at fair market rent.  That any one of my neighbors is spending their   days hard at work only to return home at night to  pests, black mold, inadequate heating and cooling,   or hazardous structural conditions is unthinkable.  And yet the time I have spent going doortodoor and   speaking with my fellow tenants has confirmed  that not only is it happening, it's common. I would like to tell you about a few of  the tenants I have met. United not only   by the fact that they are elders and on a  fixed income living with COPD and asthma,   but by their conditions. Burst pipes and other  units led to issues like a sagging ceiling and   rampant mold growth. The mold was painted over  but quickly grew back. One tenant confided in me   that they suspected the mold spread to their air  ducts, saying that coming home to their apartment   and turning on the air made them feel sicker  and that they were afraid of what they might   be breathing in. As if the blow to their health  wasn't injustice enough when their AC broke,   maintenance did not address it. The unit ran  non-stop, unable to keep up, racking up a   staggering bill month after month. The alternative  was suffering through the heat of the summer while   ill with no air flow at all. They fear getting on  management's bad side because they cannot afford   to go anywhere else. Pest control refuses to spray  every room in the unit. So, they are few forced   to use their own money to fight off the roaches  and bed bugs, desperate for some relief. Again,   their story is not uncommon. It is reflected in  countless properties across our city owned by   slum lords who neglect and take advantage of our  neighbors. We are here today to put a stop to it. My heart is also with those of our neighbors  who are waiting with housing vouchers, tribal   benefits, or social security in hand. If only they  could find a landlord to accept them. Their money   is good, regardless of where it came from, and  their need is dire. Some case managers report   needing months to find a landlord willing to say  yes to housing their client. It is unacceptable to   me that multiple people have lost their vouchers  altogether because they expired before they could   secure housing. The city of Witchah has made  a great financial commitment towards ending   homelessness and many city leaders have been  vocal in their support of that goal. The next   step is voting for policies that make it possible  for people to find and keep their housing. The   point has been introduced that landlords also have  grievances with their tenants that there are they   are sometimes faced with thousands of dollars  of damage and repair costs after somebody moves   out of or is evicted from their unit. To put it  bluntly, this is a red herring. There are avenues   that a dissatisfied landlord can take to seek  resolution. But the aim of these standards and   ordinances is to make immediate improvements to  the protections offered to the tenants of Witchah,   and they will do that. The landlords of Witchah  should not hold the safety of their neighbors   hostage until they get what they want. To  close out my comment today, I would like to   read a quote from Pope Leo the 14th's apostolic  exhortation, I have loved you. Popular movements   invite us to overcome the idea of social policies  being a policy for the poor, but never with the   poor and never of the poor, much less part of  a project which can bring people back together.   If politicians and professionals do not listen to  them, democracy atrophies, turns into a slogan or   formality. It loses its representative character  and becomes disembodied since it leaves out the   people in their daily struggle for dignity  in the building of their future. Thank you. Hello, mayor, vice mayor, and council  members. My name is David Robinson. I   live at 11603 West Berdo. Um, I'm a landlord.  I'm very, very lucky because my wife is very,   very active in our business. Um, I had a whole  bunch of stuff drawn out and it was been mentioned   over and over. I did want to key on something that  the lawyer had said on the registry. She because   I didn't read it this way, but she said it was  two violations on a property, not two violations   on properties. I am concerned with that because  there's a vast difference and obviously you know   it and you know it. There's a vast difference  how some landlords react to getting a notice of   violation. I got one last summer. I had a tenant.  He got informed by FedEx that he wasn't going to   make the cut when they merged. His mower broke.  He just locked up. He went home and went to sleep   every day. The day I got the notice, I loaded  my mower up and I went and mowed the yard. Well,   if I had gotten two of those, the way I read  the law, then I'm going to have to register.   Even though my reaction wasn't to give him a 1430  notice, I went out and took care of the problem   on that because I was concerned about that. I  don't want to put up with things in that I won't   I won't put up with things in the neighborhoods  I have homes in that I wouldn't put up with in my   neighborhood. And I have I said I told JB I have a  house just up the streets from the clinic that he   does great work at. I have houses I don't think um  I don't think I have one in yours. Um possibly not   yours and then Maggie's but everybody else I have  rentals in. We start in College Hill and go all   the way to 119th in Central. Okay. I wasn't sure.  Um, on the issue of section 8, I've never applied   for section 8. I've heard horror stories from some  of my friends that have taken it. I'm really have   an issue with a law that's compelling me to have  to enroll into a voluntary federal program. And I   understand I said as I've heard the horror stories  about Emerald Gardens. I'm actually going to go by   there this week just to look at it, just to drive  through. Um I understand cuz I have a friend that   knows you and I've seen some of the pictures on  your Facebook page. Those landlords need to be   held accountable. I'm wondering why that there's  not a vehicle right now to do that. You know, you   talked about tenants being afraid of retaliatory  landlords. Is there not a law that that a landlord   cannot do in a retaliatory eviction? Is there not  a process that if someone feels that they were   evicted in a retaliatory manner that they can seek  redress in courts? Just like that young woman said   is if I have a tenant that destroys my property. I  can seek redress. I can go in and sue that person   in court. Now whether I get paid or not on it is  a completely different matter if I win. but is an   author a process that prevents the landlord from  doing a retalatory eviction. And the lastly, I'm   I'm really concerned with this. I before I Googled  what an average landlord was, I actually thought   I was a real small landlord, but the average  landlord has his home in two properties. Um   I'm actually because after reading all this, I'm  wondering is if my investment in rental properties   is worth it. What's the What's the landlord with  two properties going to think when he goes, "Oh,   wow. Look at all this stuff I've got to do now."  There may be a consequence of going through and   passing everything that's been listed here. And  what that's going to mean is you're going to have   less rental properties available. And probably  the ones you're going to lose are not the Emerald   Gardens and not the guy not the people that are  that that you've been in the homes to see how   horrible they are. They're going to be the guy  that's just doing a really decent job and he's   renting houses that he would not have a problem  living in and he's going to go out and seek a   different investment. Thank you for your time.  Council member Hoisel. Thank you, Mayor. And I   appreciate you coming up and speaking, sir. You  do sound like a very responsive landlord, so I   do appreciate that. um two of the issues that you  were talking about. Uh one, I don't believe that   it's just simply getting a fix it ticket that will  trigger or getting two fix it tickets. It's having   that go without it being taken care of. So the 30  days when I read it, it said notice of violation,   no conviction required. And it said two notices  of violation. It didn't say per property. She did   clarify it. I would love the law to be adjusted  to clarify if there's two violations for a   property. I still think that's a little excessive,  especially if I'm able to react and get everything   handled on that. The landlord that is my mentor,  one of the things he always said to do is before   you do a 14:30 notice, if you got a problem with  the tenant, you need to sit down with them. You   need to see if you can find a solution before you  have to start putting pen to paper. And that gives   you the quickest way to resolve problems. So if  you got a car parked where it's not supposed to   be parked in a backyard or in a drop in in a front  yard or whatever, if you can talk to the person,   you can get them to move it. If you put the  notice up there, then everybody's got their   back straight up and they don't want to agree to  it. And then the tenants going to wait 15 days to   move the car. That's just an instance. No, I I  can appreciate that. And I know Council Member   Johnson's the same as myself. And anytime we do  discuss these issues with landlords or tenants,   we um we encourage dialogue and we also encourage  keeping a record of that dialogue. Um to to the   point of some landlords, I remember council  member Johnson talking about um a time that   it was written in the lease to actually there was  no fan in the bathroom, so you have to have the   window cracked um in order to to uh give some air  throughout the space. And the tenant hadn't been   doing that. and that's um something he had talked  about as far as making sure you keep records of   your dialogue and whatnot. So that way we can  get to the bottom of a lot of these cases. Um the   second one I did want to touch on is a landlord  retaliation. You're correct. It was illegal on   the state level. The problem was was there was no  actual enforcement arm to it. Um and then also we   are beholden to the landlord tenant act. So, what  landlords can do, it was obvious to us that the   reason that they were being kicked out was and  the guy admitted it to me. We didn't have any   enforcement at the time. Um, but you can go back  and you can look 6 months in the past and say,   you know, you were 3 days late with your rent  6 months ago and that can still be grounds for   eviction. We can know that that's retaliation  straight up. Um, but just having that and that   again that's the state landlord tenant law  that we are um preempted on that. We have to   uphold as well. I'm not super sure that's true  and Kurt and Geral and Garrick would probably   be able to confer. I don't know. Would you ever  take anybody to court because your landlord came   to you and said, "Hey, the tenant was three  days late three months ago for an eviction. I'm just I I'm We'll we'll keep it just so that  everyone is trying to hear from um our YouTube   channel. We'll keep this conversation at the  bench if there are direct questions asked of   uh the individual. Would you like that individual  to come forward? Uh council member Hisel. Um Sally   is the one who if he wants to. Yes. Um but  Sally's also the one who um has talked this   issue through us. Sally, can you address  this? Oh, there she is. Way back there. Um, we are beholden to the landlord tenant act for  sure. Uh, we don't see a lot of cases. We do see   cases though where someone will file a complaint  and then all of a sudden they're um being will be   served eviction notice for things that have been  allowed in the past. That's for sure. Okay. Yeah,   that's I mean that was one that we had talked  about during that the whole landlord retaliation.   So it's correct. I mean I I understand and I again  I I understand your perspective here sir and I   respect that. I just um I don't take section 8, so  I I don't I I don't have her to call and complain.   If I've got to move somebody out because they're  not paying rent, then I'm dealing with with my   lawyer. And I'm pretty sure my lawyer would look  at me and just tell me I'm stupid if I was going   to want to want to get somebody evicted for  not paying part of rent three months ago or   still living there. I I can appreciate that, sir.  Thank you, Council Member Glascock. Thank you,   Mayor. This might be for MABC. Uh, quick  question. So, um, without any particular ones,   let's say we have a bad faith actor, they have  a multi-family uh, dwelling place. Instead of   condemning the whole property and pushing hundreds  of people at the same time or dozens of people   at the same time out into homelessness or try to  find another solutions, is there a way that unit   by unit could be condemned um to try to get them  in compliance unit by unit and that way we're not   exacerbating the system with so many people on the  streets? The the unit byunit strategy is exactly   what we normally employ. That's what we find to be  the most effective with what we have at hand. So,   we would not specifically condemn a unit, but uh  we would list it as uninhabitable. So, if if a   tenant is in it at the time, then we would seek to  work with the property manager or the landlord to   uh get them temporary uh quarters if if it was  needed for the repairs. If the unit is vacant,   then there to repair it before uh they move  someone else in. So, we have existing tools   already in place. Yes. That we can utilize  to do that. and and that tends to to be the   most effective again given given access and  authorization if we can keep a tenant engaged   where we have a valid complaint and a tenant who  is still there and still engaged um to that's the   way we work through it and we're we actually just  like everything else that's been discussed today   high percentage of our cases go exactly like that.  Uh there is always that percentage of outliers   where we have problems that bring us bring us to  a discussion like this today. But even on those   outliers, we could still do a unit by unit to make  sure. Correct. The biggest challenge we have there   is so many of those complaints come to us after  or as the tenant is leaving. Okay. Thank you,   Council Member Holis. Thank you, Mayor. Chris  just actually answered my question about what   happens and how far in the process is it are we  able to actually do an inspection and reinspection   of the unit. So sometimes accessibility is the  issue and again we have to rely on the tenants   to actually invite us in or the landlord um to  actually be able to inspect a lot of these units.   I follow up to that and this would have been a  question for legal earlier when we had said that   we already have administrative tools to be able to  do that administrative warrants to be able to do   that. Wouldn't that be able to solve that problem?  It and it is a possibility. We do have that   uh at our disposal. The challenge there tends to  be getting the evidence to uh gain the warrant   and and to to get that. So if you look at a large  multif family uh complex uh the the effort um that   is involved in trying to to bring that through  a process like that is is fairly large. And then   again too and Sharon could could probably speak  to this better than I, but we we have to have   just like with any other case, we we have to have  enough hard evidence to uh to warrant the warrant.   This seems like a great tool to be able to hold  bad faith actors accountable if we figure out a   way to refine this process. what you're talking  about and maybe add more teeth to that particular   process, then the rest of this conversation  may not be needed. If we can make sure we're   holding bad faith actors accountable through that  type of process, exactly. So, you feel the same   that that that and then, you know, anything that  helps us kind of increase our ability to retain   uh access where we know we've got violations,  but based on a technicality, um we're we're not   authorized back in. Well, let's strategize about  that because I love that pathway. Thank you. We'll continue with public comment. Hello,  my name is Ayana Stenham. I am a realtor   and property manager. Um, I would like to say  that I highly oppose the entire ordinance. Um,   so instead of saying what everybody has already  said already, I will say this after prayer. Thus   says the Lord, I am the Lord that teaches you  to profit, who leads you in the way that you   should go. I am a just God. It is unjust what  they are proposing. Witchah realtors and land   owners and property owners that are gods. We are  God's people and children. We invoke, you are to   invoke your tithers rights. Rebuke, resist the  devil and his devices from stealing from you.   No weapon formed against you shall  prosper in Jesus's name. That's it. Amen. Thank you. Mayor, vice mayor, is there?  Yeah. Uh council members, city manager, and   council. Um my name is Corey Harkle Road. I own  HJH Investments. Uh it's a commercial real estate   uh syndication firm. I am a landlord and I am  a tenant at 300 West Douglas Suite 1031. There   is much that is wrong here. Um this is a rush  to get something passed before taking the time   to get it right. Brought forth by parties  that are only thinking about one set of   priorities. intended unintended consequences  will be plentiful. The way this is written,   it'll create a mess. It'll cost us cost the  city significant amounts and city employment   alone. On the flip side of that, having a  big single decision maker playing police,   judge, and jury creates a system that  allows for abuse and significant abuse. I'm a commercial guy. There's been  no consideration of of the effect   on the commercial world that I can see in  anything that is written in here. And yet,   the commercial people will be affected by these  same policies. These sources of income clauses   don't consider what's going on in the commercial  world. I have to make a decision on behalf of my   investors that I have a fiduciary duty to to  make a decision as to whether or not I have a   large corporation come into a space or a startup  business that has very little income to pay for   their rent. Now have both as tenants but I have  to make a decision as what's right and what I   need to do in each circumstance and that decision  should lay upon me as manager of that property.   and not a city bureaucracy  or a single abuse of power. Property ma maintenance registrations on large  properties two violations is too small. If you   think about the size of some of the properties,  the commercial properties in this town,   it's very easy to have two violations in one  visit from a code enforcement person. These   things need to be considered and they haven't been  considered in what we're reading. Registration of   leases. This is a data grab. This is this is big  data grab. Purposeful data grab that's going on and that should not be allowed. It'll also  slow down the leasing process as it exists. I'll let you guys answer this. Did we reach  out to the CCIM chapter in this town? Did we   talk to the large real estate companies  in this town and ask for their advice? I didn't hear anything and I haven't heard  anything from any of my compadres. You guys   can answer that. If you guys approve this in  this form, the way that it sits right now,   you guys are going to create a mess  that you won't have to deal with.   Most of you won't be involved by the time that  the consequences actually start occurring. And   these are control measures that we see  in big cities like Chicago and LA and New   York. Do we really want to act like those  cities? If you really care about everyone, you'll vote to wait until all stakeholders  have a voice. Thank you for your time. Good afternoon. My name is Philip Garcia. I live  at 1818 North Stony Point, Witchaw, Kansas. I'm a   property manager and a property owner in Witchaw  for over 10 years. Majority of my personal   properties are section 8. It's been a program  that has worked for me and my business model.   In fact, I wish I had more capital to invest in  other housing to serve these citizens in need.   The standards and requirements of this program, in  my opinion, keep people honest and has has allowed   me to sleep well at night. Do we have landlords  who are not following the rules? Absolutely.   I see it all the time when I drive down to  my properties on the south side of Witchaw   and it upsets me. Does something need to  occur to correct these issues? Absolutely.   But to force landlords to accept public  assistance or face claims of discrimination   or require a registry to include having  fees, I believe is government overreach. I wanted to offer special thanks to Kurt  Holmes for bringing this to our attention.   Um because I do think it's very important  to get stakeholder feedback. I would hate   for something in its current form to be  shoehorned in without stakeholder input,   which I think is very very important for  something that's very very important to   the residents and assistant or residents and  landlords of the Witchaw community. Thank you. Good afternoon, uh, mayor, vice mayor,  council. Uh, my name is Carl Mushwick. Uh,   I live at 497 Northeast Price Road up  in Elorado, but I have a large chunk of   rentals here in Witchah. The vast majority  of them are section 8, SPC, humankind,   and the like. Uh, I am what's known as probably  a second and third uh, chance landlord. Um,   we don't discriminate based on income source or  anything like that. But I am here today to tell   you that I am very concerned with what I am seeing  here with these ordinances and requiring folks to   uh take section 8. Uh, for one, anytime  that you raise the cost of doing business,   we have to pass that on. And I can tell you  right now as a section 8 landlord, our spread,   just kind of give an idea here, you get a $100,000  loan. You have a certain amount of money because   you have got to go by zip codes for section 8.  And you have your interest payment, insurance,   property taxes, all of what has gone up there. And  then you have their payment. And now we're talking   about adding more cost to somebody like me. I can  either raise the rent, which unfortunately means   that section 8 tenant can no longer it's no longer  affordable for them. They're going to either have   to move out. The second thing that I wanted to  talk about is is the compliance cost. And I want   to share a story with you all. In April of this  year, I had at one of my properties an individual   that agreed to move out due to non-payment of  rent. We had served the three-day notice. We   were going to go through the eviction process. And  on Monday uh of April of that uh month, he said,   "I'm out. No problem. We're going to set up  and we're going to go do what's called a make   ready." 3 days later, that individual showed up  to my property with a saw and literally sawed   the front door off and reoccupied the property.  I called Witchah's uh police department and they   came out. You know what they said to me? We're  not going to get involved. This is a landlord   dispute. This dispute didn't end there. While  we're waiting for the eviction process to happen,   this individual started to destroy the house.  If it wasn't for a city inspector who came out   when they were trying to play cart this house and  said, "Hey, something is not right here." I would   have been on the hook for, you know, all sorts of  problems and issues. Probably damaged, I want to   say, in excess of $15,000. I cannot imagine going  through that experience under these ordinances   that you all are proposing. I'm trying to do  the right thing and I would have been punished   because there was more than two violations.  So I'm asking you all to think about it as as   a you know whether you call me a business owner,  whether you call me a landlord, whatever there is,   the cost of compliance here is going to go through  the roof. The other thing that I think that we're   not talking about here is other cities that have  adopted these types of ordinances, these types of   uh, you know, uh, you know, whatever you want to  call them, non-discriminatory payments there. They   all have ended up in court. City of uh, Kansas  City, Missouri is currently right now in legal   battles about all of these types of ordinances  that we've passed. looking at the arbitrary   decisions when it comes to inspectors, looking at  forcing people to comply in a uh voluntary federal   program on this local level. So, I'm asking you  all right now, please either vote this down or at,   you know, you know, at minimum or let's pause,  let's take a breath, let's get stakeholders   together. Everybody wants good, safe housing.  But the way that we're going about it right now,   you're going to force myself, who I am very  proud to say I house probably about 65 people,   65 women, children, some men, but mostly women and  children in my section 8 homes, in my SPC homes,   and these humankind homes. I don't want to see  them on the street. I want them to be able to live   in these safe environments there. So, I'm just  asking you, please stop this madness. Let's get   uh regroup. Let's come up with a win-win  solution for everybody. Thank you all. Good afternoon, Mayor, Vice Mayor, and Council.  Danielle Johnson, executive director for Witchaw   Habitat for Humanity and District 1 resident.  Um, I will share that I did send an email earlier   and thank you for those of you that had the  opportunity to reach back out and I also had   some team members, board members, and folks that  did reach out as well. So, my hope is that you   all get the opportunity to review those emails.  Millard Fuller, one of Habitat's founders, said,   "For a community to be whole and healthy, it  must be based on people's love and concern for   each other." I also want to start by saying,  "We have no shortage of incredible landlords   that myself and my team are proximate to,  some of which serve on our board. My dad is   a mom and pop shop landlord, if you will, and  my daughter is now currently experiencing what   it's like to get up early in the morning over the  summer to work on some of those homes herself."   What I truly believe is there is an opportunity  here to have some accountability truly put in   place and I do believe in the spectrum of  housing which includes affordable housing be   it fair market to high-end to affordable rents  shelters, rental, home ownership. We need the   spectrum in our community. We also have great and  horrible tenants. We as Habitat have offered to   support other organizations in helping to support  classes for tenants um so that we can have some   opportunities to do some home education there like  we do with our homeowners. So be on the lookout   for that information. What I'm here in support of  is safe and quality housing. All Widgets deserve   safe, well-maintained housing. I've seen firsthand  how substandard conditions impact and affects   tenants health and well-being. Some of which  are are the partner families that are homeowners   today. Adopting the IPMC with local amendments  ensures clear standards and accountability for   property owners and landlords. Fair access to  housing choice vouchers should not be a barrier.   Everyone deserves an equal opportunity to rent a  safe, affordable home. Accountability for repeat   violations, those who continue to violate  codes leaving tenants in unsafe conditions.   Registration of these properties is a necessary  step for accountability. I believe a happy medium   is being proposed. Not everyone being on that  registry, but truly the offenders that continue to   offend and create harm in our community, and there  are quite a few. Strong enforcement and guidance   for judges will help ensure repeated violations  are addressed and not ignored. It's important to   note that tenants obligations to pay rent remain  separate from a landlord's repair and maintenance   obligation. That means even if a rental unit is  still in bad shape, tenants may still be required   to continue paying rent on time. While renters can  give 30-day written notice to to terminate due to   unlivable conditions or take the appropriate legal  steps to withhold, which have been shared earlier,   the 14-day30, many, and I do mean many, don't  have the means to just move out or go seek legal   support to withhold rent. Oftentimes, runners are  paying more than 30% of their income in housing,   and many are cost burdened. And so are those of us  that are homeowners. We are paying more than the   amount that you should be paying. If you withhold  payment, the landlord can begin eviction for   non-payment of rent and you might lose your legal  rights to counter claim. There are a lot of rights   for our landlords. You're aware of our tight  housing market and rising rents. Often reporting   conditions or triggering an inspection results  in retaliation and eviction. We've seen it time   and time again. I have partner families that have  spoken to that as well. A point was made earlier   about paying three or four times of the rent.  And while that's not within you all's control,   as a payee to a family member with extreme mental  health issues, I know what it's like trying to   find just substandard housing for my family member  to be able to live into. And she is on disability,   no ability to maintain or engage any more dollars.  So just to find and know I'm putting my family   member in substandard housing is problematic.  Having been someone that has had to pay the   rent for her time and time again, be it in an  apartment, a single family home, or a duplex,   and seeing a myriad of varying landlords treating  myself and my family member very poorly with no   true recourse. Trying to get a hold of LLC's,  state owners through personal experiences can be   incredibly hard. in my hat as the executive  director and within our organization,   we are looking to buy land and oftentimes we're  looking for those homes to be able to purchase,   but getting a hold of an out of town LLC  is incredibly hard. So, I can only imagine   oftentimes what tenants and some of our  partner families experience trying to get   a hold of someone to do basic fixes, things that  are within the contract when you're paying your   rent on time. I believe in the both and we can  provide decent livable conditions and hold both   tenants and landlords accountable. And it would  be great to see this get accomplished within the   next 30 to 60 days through collaboration with  tangible accountability that works. There is   common ground here. The same fervor of folks  that show up to stop these measures, I hope,   are the same fervor of folks that will show  up to ensure that no one lives in substandard   housing. Some of the same folks showed up  when former Councilwoman Levant Williams did   some of these same measures. So, this is long  overdue. Let's make a change today. Thank you. Hi, I'm Lori Lawrence. I'm at 321 North Lorraine  Avenue, 67214, and I am in Council Member   Johnson's district. I have lived there for many,  many years. Part of my time there, I was I lost my   house because of a divorce. So, for a year, I was  a renter. Now, I rented this house that I loved   cuz I'd seen it. It was in my neighborhood. I was  so excited. It was It's the cutest little duplex,   but I didn't know when I got it and did the walkth  through. You can't see everything when you do that   walk through. When I signed the paperwork and went  back in there the next day to try to use the oven,   it was closed only by a magazine. You had  to take the magazine out, open the door,   close it with the magazine. That's not against  code. It's not against code. But I thought it was.   So I called my city inspector who I knew would  know. And he said, "The last tenant was supposed   to call me when they moved out. There's open  cases on this apartment." I had no idea. I said,   "Well, it's this it's the oven, right?" He said,  "No, it's not the oven. That doesn't qualify."   But he came I invited him into my home and he came  out very quickly and told me that of all the many   things that were that needed repairing, the major  point was that the furnace was improperly vented   and I could be killed in that duplex. This  landlord knew that he had a case against him   and he still put it back on the rental and put  a sign in the yard that I walked by and saw. I   hope that this ordinance passes. We need to  manage these people who are not taking care   of their properties. I love all the landlords  that are here today that do take care of their   properties. I wish they all would. I hope that  this sort of ordinance would also help get my   situation so that I wouldn't have had to live like  that until he could get in there and get things   fixed. It was a hazardous situation. We need to  make some changes. And everyone here has said the   same thing. Landlords, renters, property owners  have all said the same thing. Things must change.   putting it off and putting it off and putting  it off may not make the change that we all agree   on already. If all of you landlords want to get  involved, do it now. Don't wait. Do it. We need   to solve this problem and we need to solve  it right away. There's too many people that   are suffering in our city, in my district, in my  community. Thank you, council. Thank you, members. Uh, thank you council members for having us  here. My name is Gary Stuber. Um, I actually   live at 2907 East Douglas. I have a company  called GMS Properties and um, I do currently   work with HUD Housing and other associations. So,  it's perplexing for me knowing what I've had to   go through in order to qualify those houses that  were really here because we've already heard from   Mr. Johnson that he has seen people that have bug  bites and everything else. We've heard from you   um that you've experienced this too. We heard  from a past representative here, Mrs. Williams,   that she saw it as well and that's four to six  years ago and this shouldn't happen. And the   people that we're I think we're all concerned  about are helping the poor. And it should be a   fair even situation. But I think you can ask Mrs.  Ballard how much problem that we've had in an area   where I have a house and there are other rentals  around it that should be condemned. And we have   over and over and over gone to the city again and  nothing has been done. and I will be more than   happy in private to tell you those addresses,  but honestly, I've been in litigation from the   person for four years. And this can go on because  people have an interesting way of representing   themselves. They're not doing it with an attorney.  They're prosay to where they can manipulate the   system to benefit them. Why are these landlords  even Why are we discussing this? And if we are   coming to an agreement, is it really fair for each  city council member to have to vote on something   that obviously is flawed that needs to be revised?  Shouldn't we consider this a town hall meeting and   think about what we've heard from these people?  Not each one of you have rented to low income. Are   we going to make this another Douglas Design  District situation where only half of us are   informed and then at the end of it, we have to go  doortodoor, personto person getting um a petition   signed so that it can stop so that it doesn't hurt  all of us. Do you realize that you're hurting the   poor? We're not helping the poor. What we're going  to do is all those people that call us that can   get a hold of us, but you know, you're right, you  can't. They're asking about our properties. Do you   honestly think that some of these people that  you're having a problem with live here? No. And   why are you continuing to have this problem?  Shame on you. You're a board member. My god,   you have all the power in the world. If I saw  somebody with lesions all over them, of course,   I'm going to go to the city attorney and have  that done. Why are we here five years later?   Why is Williams talking about what she can't get  accomplished? And if it was really such an easy,   easy, easy thing to do, why is the city selling  off 300 plus rentals that were HUD housing to   begin with? Why aren't those open back up? Why is  it something that we're supposed to bear as the   audience out here of evil people that are trying  to house people legitimately and the nuisance   ordinances? Well, that's because we had a nuisance  ordinance due to the fact that a few landlords,   one which I actually took some training from  and didn't even realize I was training under a   slum lord, has broken every single rule of this.  And what's been done to them? They have 100 plus   rentals. You know what? I have 20. And you know  why I don't have anymore? Because they're not   going to finance anymore. I can barely get paid  as it is. So, you know, and we've all had issues   with mold and things. My mother died from an  immune situation and she was forced into an area   in San Antonio because she was on a program. I'm a  landlord trying to make a difference. Do you think   I don't think about that when I go into these  places? I would never put someone in harm's way.   I have video monitors, cameras done all the time.  Absolutely right. But the way this is written,   if you will look at it, all I have to do is  sell to an out of town corporation. They're   going to have an agent. There's nothing they can  do to them. And all the people of Witchita are   the ones that are punished. And all of our money  continues to go out of Witchah. Is that what we're   interested in? Because big corporations love this.  They're able to make a killing. The group that's   sitting in here, we're not making a killing. We're  trying to make a living and we're trying to make a   difference. Please revise this and review this  before you vote on it because once again we'll   have another thing petitioned and poor people will  get hurt and we're talking about helping the poor.   Thank you. Council member Hoheisel. Thank you.  Mayor Sally, could you talk about the dispersion   of our city-owned homes and the plans for that and  the plans for the revenue raised with that? I'm   sorry. Nope. Nope. Yes. Um, we are in the process.  We've actually sold now 197 of the 352. So,   an effort started back actually in 2017 um to  try and pull them uh funding together in order   to renovate the homes that have been greatly  underfunded by HUD for more than 40 years.   um that effort failed and HUD pulled together  a team of national repositioning experts and   their recommendation was that um those homes  be sold back to the market and the proceeds   from the sale of those homes be invested in new  multifamily affordable housing. When we tried   to pull the uh to tried to pull together the  financing necessary to complete those repairs,   we were unable although we secured tax credits,  we were unable to find an investor willing to   buy them, saying single family homes were  too expensive to manage and maintain. Even   HUD went for a 2024 loan, refused to issue  a loan because once again that the model was   too expensive to maintain and manage. And so  we are on that path. Um as like I said 197 to   date. We'll get the remainder sold off. Uh the  the housing authority board council has already   approven the investment of 10 million from that  for building new uh supportive housing going   forward. So that's that's where the money from  uh the sale of the house is going is to build   affordable housing units. Correct. Now that  that'll be just the first project. There will   be additional funds. We'll be identifying future  projects going forward. Thank you. You're welcome. Richard Hill 4555 to Laura. I look at the city  codes kind of like a parking violation down on   Greenwood. They can't cure it. It's not going  to get cured. There's ways around everything.   You're you're talking two sides of the coin.  You're talking about affordable housing,   yet you're putting more restrictions on  landlords, more expense, them all got to   be passed on. And if you got somebody in here,  whether it's a mother and father and two kids   and they're just barely making it, and now it  cost me $300 to get a air conditioner guy to   go out and fix it where two years ago it cost  me and a quarter, that money's got to come from   somewhere. Property taxes go up, that money's  got to come from somewhere. Insurance goes up,   that money's got to come from somewhere. It's a  pass through. We've got all the laws on the books   right now to do anything you guys want to do. You  can go after Emery. You can seize the property,   convert them into lowincome housing. You can do  it without adding more laws. What I see on this   whatever the international building is California,  New York get together and that's what we've got.   We've been pushing the California laws in Witchto  for the last 15, 20 years. They keep changing it   more and more and more to the California laws.  This system will not work any better than what   we've got now. You've got tenants. The gal on the  news said she hadn't paid rent since August. Okay,   September and October. That ought to be enough  money to go move somewhere. If you don't like   where you're at, and that's what I tell my  tenants. I've got a lease. If you want out,   tell me you want out. You're free to go. I'm not  going to hold you there. I try to keep them up,   but at the same time, I've got tenants been  with me 15, 20 years. At the same time,   you get people that you think are doing  okay, and then boom, all of a sudden,   you get a letter from the city saying this  violation, that violation, and you go by and look,   yeah, it was that grass was cut the last time  I went by there and looked. And he said, "Yeah,   it wasn't." But he got everything taken care of,  but which is what I always do when I get that   letter. But like I say, we don't need more laws.  We got tons and tons of laws to cover everything   you want to do. You've got a city code. You  guys need to look from within. You've got code   enforcement. If they're not enforcing it, maybe  some of them ought to go find a new job. Enforce   what you got. Get the courts to force what they've  got. When you go to court and they say, "Oh, we'll   give you 30 more days." that no, if it has to  go to court, somebody gets fined. The inspector,   like the guy said earlier, the inspector should  be able to say, "We're going to grant you 30   more days. You're making an improvement. Keep  keep going." I've had them do that with me.   I used to run lowincome apartments and some of  the trash that you get in there and I don't care   how good you screen them, there's always one  that knows how to play the system and every   landlord knows it. If they're new, they might  not, but they'll learn it soon enough. They're   called professional tenants and they know their  ways around everything. But like I say, we don't   need more laws. We need to enforce what we've  got. Thank you. Greenwood is still a problem. Thank you, Richard. Uh, Commission, thank  you for having us in today. What I want to   do right now is just kind of give you three  or four little snapshots and then I think a   uh solution, possible solution. The first thing  I want to say is that as housing providers,   we have to deal with the entire community. And  that means we have to deal with mentally ill   people and elderly people that don't know how to  work a thermostat, don't know how to turn it from   cold to warm, have to be told different thing,  have you have to show them different things.   uh people that don't know when the toilet  keeps going that you're supposed to reach   down and shut it off or call the landlord because  the $600 water bill uh is just around the corner.   Um, so we have to deal with all types of people  and occasionally we deal with people who even   though we try to smother the tenants with good  service and good maintenance and and caring   attitude. They were brought up in a mentality that  they have to curse and swear and become verbally   violent at you and you have to do everything  within your power to stand there and take it   and take it and take it while they go off on you.  And then they explain, "Well, this is the way I   was born." or you know have the the children come  out and say, "Yeah, mama tells that to everybody.   I'm just saying we have to deal with the mentally  ill." Uh, and you sometimes you don't have to. Um,   a quick mold story. You know, we all nobody  likes mold in their home. I had a nice little   two-bedroom house. I rented to a family and is in  the middle of wintertime. I went to check on it   for one reason or another and the people hadn't  paid their gas bill. And so how were they going   to keep the house warm? Well, they had decided  that they were going to put pots of water on the   electric stove and turn the heat up and boil those  pots to stay warm. They also had a had a twoburner   uh pot maker in the uh living room with boiling  water. Well, what happens when you introduce all   of that moisture vapor into a house in the middle  of wintertime? All that condenses on the windows   and it runs down and it creates mold. So, I'm just  saying some people create their own mold problem.   It's not just the landlord. Another picture here  real quick. You know, people see these high rent   prices that landlords charge for rentals. They  don't realize that a giant portion of that rent   dollar goes to pay taxes and insurance that we  have to pay if we're going to stay in business.   The other thing is people don't realize things  that have to be replaced every now and then   at a terribly high cost. Uh it can cost up to  $10,000 to replace your roof. It can cost up to   $10,000 to replace your sewer pipe and it can  cost up to $10,000 to replace your central heat   and air. And so the landlord has to keep funds  on hand that can be used to do this. And so,   you know, they say, "Well, why didn't the landlord  plant pretty flowers and put shutters on the house   and make it look all pretty and everything?"  Well, maybe it's more important that he spend   that big chunk of money putting in a new sewer  line. something that we all have to have,   but nobody runs around saying, "Wow, the landlord  just spent more than a good used car on my house,   and uh at least now we can flush the toilet." So,  those are some things we don't think about. Taxes   and insurance take a big bite. Some repairs take  an enormous amount of money. Some people create   their own mold problems. and we have to deal  with the mentally ill. One quick solution is   if you've got an out ofstate or out of town owner  that's not fixing, why not just sequester his rent   from that apartment into a separate account with  30 days proper notice or whatever and then the   money could say for example the people have an  uncontrollable bed bug problem. Okay, $500 came   in for the rent. Hire the bed bug guy. Take care  of that. $500 came in for the rent. Hire the mole   guy. Sequester just that one apartment, not all 29  of his apartments. That's but do that with proper   notice because the people send their rent to the  manager and then that rent goes someplace else. Thank you. Uh Rob Perkins, 8918 West  21st Street North. Um did I just hear   that the city council is getting out of the  landlord business? Yes. That you're selling   a couple hundred units and then you're  turning around and telling us that we   have to take all income sources for the  units that you just ran into the ground. I mean, that that just doesn't make any sense as  a taxpayer or as a landlord, and you're going to   build brand new apartments with that money.  So, you're getting out of the of the market   that you're now telling us we have to be in or  that they have to be sold to homeowners. Yeah,   that that just doesn't seem fair or seem right  to me. Um, most landlords are good landlords.   uh we don't discriminate, but telling us we can't  discriminate on income sources. It sounds like the   city's doing the same thing. I mean, you're  getting out of the landlord business. You're   handing these units back and you're telling the  people that bought them, you can either live   in them, but if you rent them, you have to take  all income sources and you just admitted we just   ran them into the ground. Don't make me work for  Sally. I don't want to work for Sally. Okay? I'm a   private landlord. If I take her funding source,  which right now the government's shut down,   you know, I'm not guaranteed that funding source,  but you're saying I can't discriminate on income.   You're you're forcing me to take income that now  the city doesn't even want to take. I'm done. Mayor, Council Member Johnson. Thanks, Mayor.  Um, just a point of clarification, the uh,   public housing that we have, if you go  back to, believe it was February 2019,   our actual initial plan was to keep those  houses, renovate them, and then bring people   back into them. It's actually HUD that said  we cannot. It's not that the city council or   local government didn't want that. HUD said we  can't. So, we're in the process of, excuse me,   we're in the process of selling those off. That  was a plan that was approved by HUD and that's   what we're doing. It's not that we're saying  you need to do something that we're not going   to do. We actually did fully intend to do so.  And who's Sally's funding source? We're talking   about the federal government that is requiring  us to sell. She's the funding source of HUD.   And then you're telling me I have to take that  same funding source. So, we're talking about two   different things. You made the allegation that  we were trying to make you do something that   we weren't going to do. And I'm telling you, the  full intention in 2019 when we had the plan was   to renovate those and keep people in there so  that they would have a great place to go. When   you say that we ran those down, the federal  government hadn't given funding for that. So,   it had been what, 40, 50 years since those have  been renovated. We were really excited to see that   the federal government had put some money into  that. And again, as the administration's changed,   we had to sell those off. And now you're telling  me to use the same funding source as source of   income. And you just heard that there was an  extension on that funding for those folks,   right? But the funding source that wouldn't  fund these houses is now the funding source   that you're asking me to use. Those are two  different same department, two different funds. Hi, I'm Jason Carmichael, 329 West Carile. I've  got a question that I didn't hear answered or   brought up yet. Uh, what value do I get  if I volunteer register as a landlord, Council Member Johnson or Ho Heisel? Um, well,  I mean, if you're looking at volunteering,   again, what this ordinance is looking at  is people who violate. So, I don't know   what I would tell you a benefit would be  other than you would be on the registry.   People would be able to see that you don't  have any violations for your property. But,   uh, our goal, as we've continued to  talk about, is looking at those who   continue to have issues and they would be  required to register after those issues. Do we have anyone else in the  community who would like to speak? I see none. Thank you to the 38 individuals  who chose to attend city council today and make   your voice heard. Um, we are now going to close  public comment and bring it back to the bench. Council member Glascon. Thank you, Mayor. I have  a few comments and first off I want to say I'm   very encouraged by all the conversation today of  people engaging in the process of republic form of   government. So thank you for being here. Thank  you for engaging. Please continue to engage on   future items as well and I hope that staff make  sure to reach out to you and we're continuing   these conversations. Um I maybe have some uh  future comments based on maybe what some of my   colleagues say and see if there's any conversation  up here as well. Specifically, I just want to   talk about a few different items when it comes to  the International Property Maintenance Code. Um,   I'm interested in delaying that for 90 days to  be able to encourage stakeholder involvement. I   think that's what we heard today. People that  want to be involved and want to be engaged in   that process. Um, when we're talking about the  rental registry, I have no interest in continuing   to suspend that. I don't support the rental  registry as presented today. I'm afraid of just   slight adjustments without wholescale change will  do nothing uh to benefit this body. Um the lack of   uh needed conviction bothers me that then there's  no differential between trivial versus extreme   violations. Um that I would be interested in  maybe something that came back with a tier   level violation. Um I think again cutting your  grass is very different than having extreme um   environmental or life um endangering um aspects as  well. In addition, I will not be supportive of the   source of income. Um I think when we're talking  about making people reliant on any federal funds,   I think that there is a challenge there. Um and  I don't I believe that people should have the   free will to not have to engage with some of the  federal funds. I also have some concerns about   how do we do source of income when it's a tip? How  do I verify what somebody's monthly tips are going   to be and use that as a s source of income? So, I  also don't have any interest in delaying that in   the future because I won't support um that coming  back. Um I'm not saying that we don't do anything,   but what we're doing today does not solve the  problem that we're trying to fix. This doesn't   make units more affordable. This often will  probably raise rent on individuals. And we've   talked about that this is going to be passed for a  few bad actors. Well, when Chris from MABC came up   here, we have tools right now that could be used  to enforce bad actors and we're not actively using   them. So, let's invest in the tools that we have  now to make sure that we're holding bad actors   accountable. And as uh Chris said, those exist  in their current form and we just need to be   uh doing those more. Um I probably maybe have  a few few other comments, but I look forward   to seeing what my colleagues have to say as well.  Council member Tuttle. Thank you. Um, I just want   to thank everyone for being here today, especially  the people who are staying till the very end.   Really appreciate it and it demonstrates your  commitment. Thank you to everyone who reached out,   phone, email, text, in person, as I mentioned.  Um, one of my biggest concerns, Mr. Robertson,   Robertson and I are tracking today, and I said  this yesterday to some folks when I was talking   about this is that I'm concerned that by adding  more regulations, we may actually pe keep people   from becoming property owners and and landlords.  Um, the comparison I'm going to make is I'm a   huge advocate for child care and Kansas is the  third most regulated state for child care in   the nation. Witchah had regulations that were more  prohibitive than the state of Kansas. Keeping kids   safe is paramount. That's the number one concern.  But what can we do to make it easier for people   to become a child care provider, aka roll out  the red carpet and not the red tape, right? So   I see the same thing here. The number one priority  should be health and safety of our renters. 39% of   Witchans rent their home and it's their home even  if they rent, right? It doesn't matter if it's an   apartment, a duplex, whatever it may be. So 39%  of our witchins, our neighbors need our assistance   to make sure that health and safety should be the  number one priority. Um, I do want to mention real   quickly too for anyone who's watching or anyone  who may have issues or knows somebody who does,   and I appreciate Miss Johnson mentioning she had  a family member. I love when people tell stories.   It really helps to to resonate with us. But anyone  can call 211 if they do need help with emergency   rental assistance. Help is available. So, please  make sure that you share that information with   folks. Um, I agree with everything Council Member  Glascock said except one thing. Um, I'm going   to suggest and we'll see what happens and how  the motion rolls out that we ask for a 90day a   60-day delay and not a 90-day delay. And and my  rationale for that is two twofold. Number one,   I think this council should make this decision,  right? Two council members worked hard to get us   to this point, even if some of us don't agree. But  I do think that they should have the opportunity   to see it come to fruition. And if it's an issue  that is that serious and health and safety is of   utmost concern, we should try and address it as  quickly as we can. But when we have either it's   a you know I do I like the idea somebody said  this is already the town hall. I kind of agree   with that. if we pull together a committee, if we  have a task force, I I don't know how the process   is going to happen or what's going to happen, but  I absolutely think if we're going to address the   International Property and Maintenance Code,  the content experts, landlords, and tenants   need to be at the table. Um, we certainly need  to have staff, we need probably MPC and Troy and   Sally and whoever else from us, but I always say  our job sometimes is to be the advocate and we   need to lean into the experts. So for some of the  folks today, I'm pretty sure that we're going to   call on you and ask you to be a part of this task  force committee, whatever it may be. But again,   just thank you for everyone. Thank you for all my  colleagues. I know that um it's been a long day.   We got a long day ahead of us, but um I think  we're going to come up with something hopefully   we can all agree on. Thank you, Council Member  Hoisel. Thank you, Mayor. Um I had hoped to have   some action today, but it doesn't sound like um my  fellow council members are on board. it might be   too soon for some of them uh to really work these  bills or these ordinances. Um I've heard a lot of   people in here um discussing these issues and I I  take your comments to heart and I also take your   desire to actually crack down on the bad actors  to heart as well. Um, so if we do do a delay, um,   I would encourage everybody to come to the table  with that spirit, with that in mind, to actually   do something that will reform, that will crack  down on the bad actors, that will give people   um, real options as far as protecting the tenants,  protecting their health, um, just making sure that   we we go in this with the real spirit, and that  includes everybody, including tenants at the table   as well. So, if we do uh delay this today, that is  my ask of the community is to actually go through   and address this. And I agree 100% that this  council should be hearing these ordinances. So,   um I guess I'll see what the the rest of my fellow  council members have to say. And uh I would think   that would all should be delayed as a package  for us to um discuss further down the line. Council member Ballard. Thank you, Mayor.  I appreciate everyone's patience today   and everyone's hard work on this. Um, I have a  question for Chris. Um, Council Member Glascock   mentioned that or and you did too that we have  all of these tools in the tool box, but we still   have some of these bad actors, slum lords, what  whatever um you want to call them. But are we not   enforcing them in the way that we are able to or  can you just talk a little bit about why we have   these tools and maybe it looks like we're not  um holding some of these landlords accountable   in the way that the ordinance is written today.  Now what what I will say ma'am is the so rental   registration is something that we do not have  and have not so that that would be a completely   new discussion that is part of what was presented  today. Um other than that correct we have forms of   uh these and and what is there we do our best  um again access and in ensuring that we don't   overstep legal access boundaries uh plays a  factor in that. Um there and this there's a   lot of factors in this. So we we found our find  ourselves in the uh wonderful position of being   between everything that you heard today. Um we  know that there are tenant issues and we know   there are landlord issues and um some some of what  we discussed today um was is the enforcement arm   of that. For us, I guess we feel like maybe that's  the difference. We don't see a lot of changes in   ordinance in as in rules so much as uh where maybe  the body is seeking to go with ability to enforce   or to follow through and to add some tools there.  Um if if that makes sense as part of the as the   explanation for that. So I I think some of that  would be a follow on to this discussion as well.   Okay. Thank you. And just for my colleagues, I  would be interested in a 60-day delay but not 90. Council member Johnson. Thanks, Mayor. Um, we  heard a lot today. Um, the one thing we didn't   hear a lot of is from the folks who have had to  live in these really bad spaces. There's a lot of   reasons for that. Um, we were made aware of in an  email about some Facebook group that names people   and shows IDs and shows retaliatory measures. A  lot of these folks don't want to be retaliated   against if they want to find a place to live with  maybe one of the folks I was here or somewhere   else. Those things do happen. As we continue to  talk about delays, I know that this may be new to   some, but preparing for today, I look through my  emails. I found an email from myself to Sharon on   December 31st of 2018 talking about this. I know  I have spoken about this in just about every space   I could to every landlord who liked me or did not  like me to various groups that I've went to visit   with all the people that I have um had the ability  to visit their residents and see these things.   I know my predecessor who was here and who  was mentioned by a speaker had been working   on this. There was a 2015 effort. There was  an effort prior to that. That was an effort   in 2017. We even had some blight efforts  that even went to the state legislature,   passed both houses vetoed by the governor, went  back again. Chris Labram testified twice. We've   continued to try to do something about substandard  living or substandard properties. And while all   of this engagement is great, I don't see this type  of engagement when someone reaches out to me about   their gruesome situation. I'll get a few messages  of saying that it's sad, but we don't see a full   house saying that we need to do something or a  full house with multiple suggestions of how we   can do something more than what we've been  doing. And while we continue to talk about   the tools we do have, there's a few cases. One I  won't mention because of what happened last time,   but those tools don't always work. You might  think we have them. You might think that, hey,   just it's great. You can go shut something down.  You can't. I've tried. Trust me. And you all have   seen some of the spaces I've been in. We need  to do something. And as we talk about delaying,   I think there are some things that may come  from a delay where whether it's education on   what we're talking about. I know not everybody's  had an opportunity to read this for themselves. I   know that there was a letter that went out that  said some things. I think there was some some   misinformation in it. There was some accurate  information in it. I think a conversation is   warranted. But the question that everybody  who continues to reach out to their elected   representatives on this body to hope that we will  do something that hopes for a better place to live   is what will we do? And there's the sad thing  for me and I what I would hate to see 30 days   60 days is that we come back and then we end up  doing nothing because it's been 10 years since   Levant tried. It was years before that. And as  we talk about even exteriors, I will tell you   before I learned about a lot of what Habitat for  Humanity does, when Anne Fox was the director,   I remember walking down a neighborhood south of  Murdoch in District 1 and I found two homeowners   or two renters who were in a residence and  there was a hole, a gaping hole in the back   of their unit where I could clearly see outside  and rodents were coming in and out And I talked   to them about going to code enforcement and when  they did they got evicted and they're forced to   live in places like that. And I just wonder when  we will have the will to do something about it   so they don't have to continue to come to us  crying or sick or with emergency bills. They   may not mean a lot to some people, but not one  person should have to live like that. Not one.   I hope that with the delay there's some real  engagement but there's not a you guys are doing   too much because those folks deserve us doing a  lot more. They absolutely do. I think it's our job   to do so. I understand not everybody has been in  the spaces I've been in. The gentleman Eric maybe   um the inspector who spoke about he he's actually  been in there. I follow him on Facebook. he has   and what he talked about is real like we we have  to do something and again you know I'm I'm sure   my colleagues or majority will want to maybe  delay I think IPMC is fine personally I heard   a little bit today most of what I heard was source  of income and rental registration as I was keeping   track but we got to do something and I just really  hope that um you know this is not delayed and the   conversations had And the fear of harming folks  that probably won't get harmed from doing all the   right things that we heard that they're doing  today won't allow us to do more to the people   who deserve some stronger enforcement and deserve  some higher fines. They need it. We know it. We've   seen too much of it. And I guess selfishly,  I like to handle issues while I'm in office.   I've tackled every toughening that has come before  me. I don't care about the push back if it's right   and I don't want to kick something that could  be solved to another council member like it was   kicked to me and it was from no intention of my  predecessor. But these tough issues deserve us to   make some real tough decisions and actually do  something about it. Because again, if we don't   do something about it, whether it's today, 30  days, 60 days, hopefully not 90 days, these   individuals are still going to be living in these  conditions for every day that we take and wait,   every day that it's not approved that we can do  more. And if we end up not doing nothing, I hope   it's not another 10 years that people have to live  in this type of condition without a willingness to   do more to hold these folks accountable. And I can  tell you, even though it may not have been talked   about by dates and times today, I know our staff  has tried hard on some of these folks. We didn't   talk about all the issues of environmental court,  but you know, if a inspector retired and they were   the prime witness on the case, you got to start  over. That could be a violation, but you got to   start over and do all that work again. It's it's  just it's a lot there. And I'm just hopeful that I   won't take up 20 minutes talking. I'm just hopeful  that we truly actually do something. Even if it   is delayed, I'm not really supportive of that cuz  I've been talking about this for my whole term in   office. But if we do delay it, I hope actual work  is done. We're talking to the folks that are here.   I hope there's real solution that comes to us  by reviewing the policy that has been presented,   whatever those tweaks might be, but always  remembering that the goal is to hold folks   accountable. And that is what we should do. And it  may not be the great folks that came in here who   take care of their tenants and and do such a great  job, but there are some bad actors. 15% may sound   like a little bit and that was I think one of our  speakers talked about if they had 85% success rate   that'd be good. 15% is thousands of units. Those  are people's lives that they got to deal with this   type of thing. And I just hope that we all keep  that in mind as we go forward. And that's not to   this body. That's everybody who wants to join  in this conversation and actually do something   about it. Keep in mind that that 15% is people's  lives that are truly being impacted in substandard   housing. And it's important it it's it's as  important as breathing for them. We're debating   policy. It's their life. Vice Mayor Johnston.  Thank you, Mayor. Council member Johnson. I agree   with you. We shouldn't kick it down the road. Um,  and I think we can get it before you leave before   you leave office. I really do. Um, I think talked  to a lot of landlords, including Mr. Robinson. Um,   and they all want to get the bad landlords out.  Gives them a bad name. Um, they all want that. And   I think we can get there. Um, I don't think this  is the solution right here, right now. Um, but   I think we can get there. Um, I would recommend  appointing a task force in the next probably two   or three weeks and let them work on it for a few  weeks uh task force to work on it to to find the   solutions, the right language to to accomplish  that. Um, I'd also suggest that we bring it back   at our December 9th meeting. Um, we could go the  16th, which would be 60 days, but everybody knows   nothing happens during Christmas time anyway. So,  we're gonna have to get it done in November. Um,   so that's what I would suggest. And I think we can  get it done. And, uh, I know you've been working   on a long time and I want to get it done for you.  And, and I have been in those houses, too. Had a   little brother years ago. Big brother, little  brother. And it's worse than anything you've   described. and and it's it is terrible as a single  mother with four kids. Um a good outcome there   because the city did find them suitable housing on  Murdoch actually. So um that was a good outcome,   but I would suggest put a task force together,  get them activated quickly. Um I got a couple   good people that would love to serve on it and  I'm sure everybody here does too. And then I would   suggest bring it back at our December 9th meeting.  Council member Tuttle. Thank you. Sharon, I just   have a question. Um I'm hearing a lot of consensus  that we probably want to make a delay. Um I had   mentioned a task force. Vice Mayor said the same  thing. Um I think we're all kind of tracking on   the same date. I was thinking of the 9th or  the 16th. So if a motion if you know I think   there's a few more people on the board, but I'm  prepared to make a motion or however it rolls out.   Can we just can the motion just be that the item  is delayed and a task force is created in the   date that it comes back or does it have to also  include all of the language in the original item?   I think you can make a motion that all of the  parts of this item be delayed and a task force   appointed. What if we just want it to be the the  international property code? Because it's in three   different items. So we can just address the first  item and then take the other two separately. Is   that correct? I believe that was how it was placed  on the agenda. Yes. So, you could take the charter   ordinance, excuse me, charter ordinance and the  IPMC and the court. I'm just look looking to see   how it's how it's and then the other two would  be the income source and the rental registry and   those would just address separated out. Okay.  Okay. Thank you, Council Member Glasgow. Thank   you. Followup question to that. Do can there be a  motion to deny uh not item one, it's on the second   page, but the uh source of income and rental, or  does it just fail if it doesn't receive a motion? If if the motion is to only defer item one,  then those items would be moved. If there's   no motion or no action taken on two and three,  then those would just die. Okay. Thank you, Council Member Hoheisle. Thank you, Mayor. Uh  my response and my thoughts on that is it should   all be moved as a package. Um I know uh some  members of council have shown some um interest   in a slumlord registration. Maybe that is a higher  barrier, but that is something I think that a task   force could look at and bring back. It doesn't  mean that everything that we pass here um or part   of this package will be coming back because again  the task force may just say this is unworkable   that that's unworkable. Um but I think it should  all be considered seeing how that was a point of   all the discussion today and we had people from  both sides of all the issues considering it.   Council member Tuttle, I was going to make  a motion, but I see some other people got   on the board, so I'll wait. Excuse me.  Council member Brandon Johnson. Thanks,   Mayor. I just wanted to say I agree  with Council Member Hoheisle. Um,   if we are going to go out and engage uh  landlords and tenants, I think it should   be the whole package. and they may come back  and say they don't want a part of it or uh we   may disagree with what whatever might be said but  since everyone came today for the whole package   I think if it goes out in deferral it should be  the whole package as well. Council member Glass   I will wait to hold a motion to see if there's any  further comment. The only comment I have is just   thank you again to everyone that participated  today. anyone who's watching online, there are   215 individuals still watching online. Um, I  want to remind everyone that witchah.gov/engage is the landing page to remind people to uh stay  connected. There's also a signup sheet outside the   doors if you want to stay engaged in this process.  In addition, uh when it comes to engagement,   I simply want to say thank you. Um the idea is  not to um have closed door meetings and create   ordinances that then affect everybody in our  community. And when I had learned uh that it   was only the six district advisory boards and  a specific individual uh engaged in the process   before it came to us today. Um, I knew that this  was going to be something that I could not support   knowing that I have been a big proponent of ga  getting more engagement and true stakeholders at   the table and that includes landlords and tenants  equally. We need both in order for this situation   to be fruitful for all. And so again, I appreciate  uh the landlords who came and spoke. I appreciate   the tenants who gave their testimony. um and spoke  on behalf of other tenants who could not be here   today. I want this to be a workable solution  and I think that we currently have a system   uh with actual laws that are in place and maybe  it needs refining and if there's a focused effort   instead of talking about a million different  things focusing on one specific item and really   working that item uh will be how you get actual  results. And I and that's why I'm a proponent of   really focusing on on the item number one which  is the international code since that has a lot of   components to it. Um and a task force would be  needed to really look at this and discuss. Um,   so my only comments really are to really focus  the effort so that we're not trying to talk   about multiple different subjects um and really  focusing our efforts on the international code.   Council member Tuttles. Thank you. I'm prepared  to make a motion. I would move that we delay   all the recommended actions in item one until  December 9th. A task force shall be established   including landowners, tenants, stakeholders,  and staff. Just to provide a little clarity,   um I know Mr. Daniels was here today with Renters  Owners, Inc. I would consider that to be an entity   of stakeholders that would be really important  to have included. Perhaps Habitat for Humanity   or Menite Housing who were also here would be  important stakeholders. So when I stakeholders,   that's that's the intention that I have. I'm I'm  saying December 9th instead of December 16th so   that way we would have one more council meeting  if we needed to make any tweaks. I do believe   that it's fair to have this item addressed by  this council. So again, my motion um with the   qualifications that I made is to de to delay all  of the recommendations and action one I do think   we should take the other two separately is to um  actions in item one until December 9th. A task   force shall be established to include staff, land  owners, ten tenants, and stakeholders. Second. We have a motion and a second. One point of  clarification. Wanted to make sure that we   actually have one more meeting before a new  council would come into office. So January 6,   2026 is actually the last meeting that will for  sure include council member Johnson. Just for   point of record, we have a motion and a second,  and I still have a board full of people that want   to speak. Council member Glascock, I'm ready to  make motions on the other two, but I'll see if   there's comments first. Council member Ho Heisel.  Thank you, Mayor. I'd like to make a substitute   motion that all three items are considered  and uh for delay until the December sorry   the December 9th meeting uh for said task force  to take a look at with recommendations. Second. We now have a substitute motion with a second  and we also have this one takes precedent over   the original uh motion. If it fails then it  goes back to the original motion. Um so we have   council member Hoheisel who moved the motion  and seconded by council member Johnson. Any   further comments? Council member Hohheisle. Nope.  Okay. Madame clerk, can you please open the role? The motion does not carry three four  to three, which means now we're back   at the original motion that was um moved  by council member Tuttle and seconded by   Vice Mayor Johnstone. Any further discussion?  I see none. Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion passes 70. Madame clerk, actually,  let's take a short break. May bear with a   motion. We have one more. We have two. Two more.  Uh with a motion that we deny amending the city's   non-discrimination ordinance to include  source of income on first reading. Well,   I guess the motion would be to deny authorizing  the city's non-discrimination ordinance to include   source of income. Second. Motion and a second. Any  further discussion? I seek council member Tuttle.   Thank you and and thank you for the motion. I I  thought it was interesting today. I out of the 38   speakers and I think 27 of them were against  this or were proposing some sort of delay. I   anticipated the folks who were the advocates for  the tenants to be the only ones that were against   source of income. But I heard pretty loudly also  from the landlord community that they felt that   it was something that could become a conflict  of interest and and quite possibly, you know,   convolute the system. I think the intention  was good, but I think the way that it it was   presented. This doesn't mean that the task force  that we're establishing can't also address this,   right? They certainly can, and I hope they would.  my true intention um and my true desire would be   that this task force that we're establishing or  whatever we want to call it um they're not just   looking at the code that we discussed, but maybe  they're looking at other items as they arise. So,   um it's not as much that, you know, I I I  appreciate the sentiment, but I heard pretty   loudly from both sides that there was going to be  an issue with it for different reasons. So, that's   my reason for my vote. Thank you, Council Member  Hoheisle. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I'm planning on   voting against this because I do believe that  it should have been part of the package. So,   I just wanted to offer some clarification, the  package that we would want a task force to look   at and address. So, I I just wish that that we  would and maybe they will. Um, but I do wish   that maybe that that would be discussed at some  form with the package. So, that's all. We have a   motion and a second. Any further discussion? I  see none. Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion passes 4 to three. Council member Mayor with the motion. Um I move  that the city deny requiring registration of   rental units with it with property maintenance  violations as presented in today's ordinance.   Second. Motion and a second. Any further  discussion? Council member Johnson. Thanks,   Mayor. I'd offer a substitute motion that the city   uh approve either the rental registration  units or property maintenance violations   on first reading or added to the uh  December 9th meeting with the task force. You can you that that's not an appropriate  motion. You can't have an and and an or.   Okay. Because if if I will modify my motion to  add it to the December 9th meeting and have the   task force address the item. Second. Motion and  a second. Discussion. Council member Tuttle. I'm going to withdraw. I was going to make a  cop a comment before the substitute. Sorry. Vice   Mayor Johnston. Yeah, I I'll speak to that. Um,  I think as presented now, it's not good. I think   task force can look at that when they look  at everything. So, but as it presented now,   I I'm not in favor of that. So, I'll be voting  against it. So, Council Member Hohisel. Thank you,   Mayor. I I concur with um Vice Mayor Johnston.  I do see things that we could change and make   it different and make it um a little easier and a  little less um aggressive towards good landlords.   Um but that would be the reason that I would  want the task force to look at it. It doesn't   mean this particular ordinance as drafted would  come back in its present form. It would just mean   that that's part of the what the task force has  to look at. So that's why I would support this   um if it's a amendment or the um ordinance  presented. Now, I would want to work it to make   um make some changes as far as um the number of  violations, the type of violations, the class of   violations and whatnot. Um just to make sure that  we're actually getting the slumlords and not the   um the good landlords and property owners,  not being overly vindictive towards them. So,   that's that's my thoughts on this particular  motion. Council member Glascott. Thank you, Mayor.   I can appreciate Councilman Hohheisle's comments,  but as this is presented now, this is not workable   for me. If the committee comes back and they  want a substantially different um ordinance,   I will take it and look at the merits of it, but  just slight adjustments to this ordinance I cannot   support. Council member Tuttle, thank you. Um  just one quick comment for me. Um this has been   so helpful to me. I've always said that we are  beholden for community engagement, but today   really just solidified it. One of the landlords,  and I'm sorry, I think it was Mr. Robinson, but I   can't remember, talked about one of your tenants  and he was having mental health issues and wasn't   taking care of his lawn. And you know, then you  went and did something, but you could have been   put on the registry really kind of on accident.  And so, again, I think this is something that we   can address and there may be a potential need, but  not not as it's presented today for me. So, thank   you and for thank you again for everyone sharing  their stories. We have a substitute motion moved   by council member Johnson and seconded by council  member Hohheisle. If that does not pass, it goes   back to the original um motion. I see no further  comments. Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion does not carry 4 to three. We're back to  the original motion by council member uh Glascock   and seconded by Vice Mayor Johnston. Any further  comments? I see council member Johnson. Thanks,   Mayor. Um my hope is that a task force will  look at this anyway. We are already, in my view,   taking some steps backward and even just  recommending a conversation to a task force. Um,   and it would be nice to see an official council  recommendation of these items rather than   just saying, "I hope you talk about it. You  have direction to talk about item one." Um,   but we couldn't get the other item. So, I think  that's unfortunate and I'm already concerned   about what this will look like coming back  because we aren't even saying that we want um   the registry looked at and everyone today talked  about wanting to address the bad actors and this   was an item that actually did that. whether you  liked it in its current form or not, encouraging   a task force to address the current form and make  some recommendated uh recommended changes I think   would be good. But now the direction will just  be one item and hope that you talk about that and   maybe some other stuff. So, um I think that those  paying attention and especially the tenants who   um didn't show up today and probably feel  a little bit let down by that, but again,   I hope the conversation does include that. Um  and I hope to hear something back from folks   after that that will include some form of holding  these folks accountable and some form of registry.   um so that they so that folks can see that  and help our team out in addressing some of   the issues. [Music] Council member Hohisel. Thank  you, Mayor. Um I'm the chatter box for all of you   that stick around all day. Um but I do want to  say that again, I hope we do come together as a   community. I do hope that we keep um those who are  really struggling uh with health issues and with   um economic challenges in mind. Uh we do have a  great community. We have a great city. Um, we want   to be a great community and a great people.  So, I I do ask that we all come together and   see what we can do to truly address these issues  moving forward. So, thank you all who sat through   today. Uh, we're still on item one. I don't  think we've ever had that before. 3:30 almost   uh just on just getting to item one. So, it's  been a long day. Thank you all for coming out   and sharing your stories and I hope we again come  together and actually find ways to address these   issues moving forward. Council member Ballard.  Thank you, Mayor. Uh Bob, I just have a question.   How are we going to decide who is on the task  force? I think that's incredibly important. Do   we all appoint somebody or I I'll plan on visiting  with all of you about that process. I I'll need to   talk to staff, too. I think the idea is to try to  get something in place quickly. Um it may be that   we just consult over that. Um I I don't know and  I also I'm conscious of the public requirements   um in terms of uh coma and kora. So we want to do  everything in a transparent way but give us a day   to think through that and I'll visit with all of  you about approach. I just want to make sure we   have representation from tenants, landlords and  so on. Yeah. Um, one thing is I do I'm not sure   there was a speaker today that didn't agree we  have a problem with a certain percentage of our   landlords that are creating unsafe conditions  for the people that live in their their units.   I think that's going to be kind of one of the core  issues that this group will look at and we'll try   to frame the issue to make sure that they talk  about that whether that's a registry or changes   in the in the IPMC whatever but that that'll be up  to the task force but I'm confident they're going   to talk about those really unsafe conditions  that some of our residents are living in. I see no further comments. Madame  clerk, please open the roll. Motion carries 4 to 3. It is 3:25. Can we take  a five minute break? We'll be back at 3:30. all for allowing us to have a bit  of a longer break than 5 minutes.   We now return at 3:35 p.m. and we will  resume council meeting business with the   next item. Madame clerk, can you please  call the next item, police equipment? Good afternoon, mayor, council. Jason  Culie, captain, Witchaw Police Department. This is the uh police equipment and the CIP  for 2026. Uh the Witchaw Police Department   uh uses a variety of equipment to protect  staff including body armor, helmets, shields,   and breaching devices. Additionally, department  cell phones are used to communicate internally   and externally along with voice and photography  evidence collection. Uh most police equipment   carry a 5-year lifespan due to wear or warranty  limitations. Uh WPD identified a shortage in   current inventory for emergency services and  to address future emergency equipment needs   systematically uh staff developed a replacement  plan and funding was incorporated into the CIP.   Uh financial considerations the adopted 26 to35  CIP includes 980,000 in ongoing in the ongoing   project. Uh the recommendation is approve and  initiate initiation of funding and authorize the   necessary signatures. And with that, I stand for  questions. Thank you, Captain Kulie. We'll begin   with Council Member Hohis. Thank you, Mayor. Um  with the newer technology that we have nowadays,   um do we see any extension of a 5-year lifespan on  some of this stuff in the future or is that pretty   much just standard that we will be going on?  So that comes from uh NIJJ. Most of that stuff,   the national standard for that and most of  that fiveyear lifespan is uh our bunkers,   a lot of ballistic material, our vest.  Uh it has been 5 years before my time.   Um I don't know how far back it goes to be  in that 5year standard. Um there has been   no indication that it's going to extend  seven, eight years of lifespan for that   warranty. Okay. Thank you. Yep. What was that  national board that you mentioned? Uh, NIJJ. Thank you, Captain Kulie. Any further questions  for staff? I see none. We will now open it up for   public comment. I see no one from the public who  would like to speak on this item. I'm going to   bring it back to the bench. I will go ahead and  move this motion. I move that the city council   approve the initiation of additional funds  and authorize the necessary signatures. Second   motion and a second. Any further discussion? I  see none. Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion passes 70. Madame clerk, please call  the next item. Police heavy equipment vehicles. Again, mayor, city council, Jason Kulie, captain,  Witchaw Police Department. Uh this is the capital   improvement for police heavy equipment vehicles.  A little bit of background on our vehicles. Uh the   Witchaw Police Department uses a variety  of vehicles to protect staff as well as   uh the community to transport personnel and  equipment. Uh WPD maintains a limited amount   of armor and heavy vehicle in our fleet. Uh  one example is uh the one of the bomb unit   vehicles is approaching nearly a 21-year uh span  of inservice. Uh SWAT and bomb utilizes specialty   specialized heavy equipment vehicles to respond  to emergencies within the south central region.   So it expands farther than uh just the uh city of  Witchah. Uh WPD does not have a unified command   vehicle for emergencies or national disasters  currently. Uh financial consideration was the   adopted 26 to35 capital improvement includes  3,2 there's a typo there uh 3,2500,000 in general obligation bonds. Now the  recommendation is approve the initi initiation   of funding and authorize the necessary signatures.  And with that I stand for questions. Questions   for staff. Council member Hoheisle. Thank you  mayor. Um is this similar to the the fire command   response vehicle as well that they have? Yeah.  So essentially um in the cap yes in the capital   improvement plan uh I submitted multiple vehicles  all with different needs. Um there is in there um   a command vehicle. It's not as large as the fire  vehicle. Um it is a smaller uh vehicle. That's   a that's a 40 foot vehicle. Um we were looking at  something in the 30 foot range. Um there'll be two   of them. Um plus uh different capital improvement  line items for the bomb vehicle. Um there is a a   SWAT armored vehicle in there. I'm trying to  remember what else. Um and essentially what   we did is uh we are asking to create one total  funded project of the 3.25 25 uh and under that   one project there'll be sub projects if I'm  speaking financial terms I think there's sub   projects under those for each of the vehicles and  the thought process is is if there's 600,000 for   um the swap vehicle but it cost us 610 we can  use 10 from one of the other vehicles instead   of coming back and asking for 10 we just use all  that 3.2 two million. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Any   further questions for staff? Vice Mayor Johnston.  There we go. Thank you, Mayor. Captain Culie,   I was going to ask the same question. Uh the  fire department has a command vehicle for natural   disasters and things. Can't we just utilize that?  Um work together. We have tried that. It doesn't   fit down some of our city streets. Um, we use it  for Riverfest where we can drive it to a location,   park it, and jack it up like an RV. Um, that's  more of a motor home. Um, that requires a   different driver's license. Um, getting them down  residential streets uh during a SWAT call, it's   we've tried, it just isn't practical. We can't get  them down the neighborhood. Um, we've got to have   fire personnel on scene to help us with that uh  vehicle, drive it there, park it. Sometimes they   leave, then we're stuck with that vehicle.  Um the 30-foot one and a smaller 26 ft one   um is what you see as common standard for police  departments. Uh the Secret Service, all of those   um they none of them are running the 40 foot coach  buses essentially for that same reason that we're   running into for a natural disaster where we're  going to be out there for a month cleaning up a   tornado. Great vehicle. Um it just isn't practical  for the amount of times the police department   needs it out. Currently um you know a SWAT call  we had at Central and Ridge uh was pouring down   rain. Kids are coming on school buses. We're in  the rain. We were operating that SWAT call in   the rain. There's nowhere to go. Um we piled in my  SUV as much as we could. Then we were just in the   rain. Um we we had so much shutdown that school  buses couldn't get through. So bringing their bus   out wasn't an option for that one either. That was  by my house. It caused a lot of commotion. Yeah.   Sorry about that. Yeah. Um do you think you need  two of them or would one vehicle do it? Yeah. So   the the reason that there's two in there is one  of them is a uh larger Riverfest natural disaster   of July um vehicle. Um the other one is a smaller,  more practical one. Um, plus if we're running two   operations at one time, um, we don't have the  capability to run two unified commands at one   time, let alone leave one on scene right now. Um,  I in the ideal world, we'd have one approaching   20 years old, and I'd just be asking for a  second one. Um, but we don't have any. So, um,   we have contemplated could we get by with one. Um  on that particular call that we were discussing uh   it involved other agencies as well. Um again had  they had nowhere to to stay. Um so we weren't able   to move from one vehicle to another for briefs.  We went from inside my SUV to pouring down rain   for a brief. Um, so the thought process with two  is we can run two scenes at one time and oftent   times even a homicide or a vehicle crash. We're  working those in the rain, in the snow in 30°. Um,   you know, when I was a lieutenant, I lost the  feeling in my right hand just working a homicide   standing out on the scene. There was nowhere  for me to go, nowhere for me to brief the media.   um we had another scene working at the same time.  So unfortunately we are spread thin with running   our scenes through the city. We feel two is the  adequate number for us. Okay. Thank you, Council   Member Glascott. Thank you, Mayor. So we have zero  right now. How many times would we have utilized   two this year at one point? I didn't put together  those stats. Um I mean like if it's one time   versus 50 times, that's a substantial difference.  It's going to be in the middle. I would say   um you are probably talking once every two weeks  for one of the vehicles. I would say probably once   a month for two of the vehicles. So if we did one  vehicle essentially the second one would be needed   once a month if that makes sense. I don't know if  I explained that. Okay. I think um it's a it's a   matter of how do you appropriately deal with some  of these multiple incident weekends we've had for   instance and I think it's you're not going to  it's not going to be all the time but it we   unfortunately we all do know that there have been  difficult periods of time where we're the police   department on a weekend is at multiple scenes and  so I think that's why the recommendation why we   support the recommendation. Do we get a discount  for buying more than one? We'll see. We'll see in   the RFP process, but Okay. Um, this might be a  question for Bob. Something that you mentioned   just stood out to me that our fire one cannot go  down residential streets. Was that talked about   when that came before the body at some point? I'm  not I it's never been brought to my attention that   they are unable unable to operate at a scene uh  because of the size of the vehicle and the scene   that they're serving. They may be around the  corner or something like that. They may not be,   you know, parked where a pumper would be or  where a ladder would be, but I I'm not aware   any operational issues that have been brought to  my attention. Yeah. And to and to clarify on that,   it's not it's not like every city street. I  mean, it's the size of a village tour bus.   If if there is a scene mid block, depending  on where we put our command post, we've had a   some neighborhoods where that bus can't make the  turn. Every city block is different. There may   have been a tree or something where we couldn't  pop over a curb or something with it. Um, we've   just stopped requesting it because you don't know  until it gets out there if it can make that turn.   I can't speak on how often fire brings that  out and if they're running into that. I can   just tell you that there's been a few times  where we have requested it and we've ran into   that. Could be that particular block, could be  that street, but it was enough for us to say 40   foot is too much. I think it'd be a challenge  if a fire command vehicle can't go out places,   then we should probably be addressing that if it  is a as big a problem as you're talking about use   not be able to be utilized. I I will say that  fire runs a different type of uniform command   unified command than police does. So when fire is  attacking a fire, they are running it differently   than how we run a unified command. Are you going  to let fire use your asses now if they can't go   to places? Yeah, we're we're a great partner  with fire. We've I just went to training on   uh uh hazardous training for all these events and  stuff Tuesday, last a week ago with fire. Um so,   mayor, if I could, this is just to authorize the  funding. Um you'll approve going out for proposals   or bids on a on each of the units. You have one  in front of you at the next council meeting. Is   it the bomb unit or SWAT? It's a SWAT unit. let  us do a little more work on the on these and we'll   bring it back the justification and the reason  why it was included in the CIP. Thank you. Okay,   you we haven't even started the RFP on it yet. So,  Council Member Hoheisle. Thank you, Mayor. Um, uh,   that did spur kind of a question. Right now,  we do use the fire command unit to go out for   forest fires, woodland fires, and whatnot. Um, you  had mentioned in the presentation about it being   restricted to South Central use. Do we see this  either of these being potentially used um outside   of Witchah? And what would those circumstances be?  Are you talking about the police ones or fire? Uh,   the police ones. Okay. The police ones. We are  not obligated to respond to the South Central   region unless it has been funded by the South  Central region. So, for example, one of our   armored vehicles, all of our bomb vehicles, um  whole slew of equipment, those are funded by the   South Central region. We are obligated to provide  that mutual aid. If it is funded by the city,   we're not obligated to bring those pieces of  equipment as mutual aid. We participate in   mutual aid for our SWAT team, for our bomb team,  for our negotiators, but it depends on where   the funding comes from. If you're obligated to  provide those pieces of equipment in mutual aid,   so they would be active in like an emergency  management situation, disaster response, tornado,   something like that, they would be eligible to  go out on the scene and help with that. in the   city out outside the city like if it's um Andover  or Hazesville or that would be up for the chief   and and city management. Okay. Y thank you. Mhm. I  just had a question regarding the storage of these   uh new vehicles. Where would those be essentially  stored? I know that that has been an issue   um with space. Yeah, so I'm currently uh looking  for storage now. Um we've got a couple uh places   that we're looking at very very preliminary  nothing we don't even know if they're going   to work type spaces. Uh right now where we're  currently at is full uh both for bomb uh and   SWAT. Um so we are looking in the CIP funding  there is uh uh funding for storage but it's   several years out 29 and 30 maybe 31 uh so it's  several years out um so we are actively looking   uh none of them places have been brought uh to the  city manager yet because none of them uh have been   viable options Yeah. Can I put it on the record  that um one of the options we have the uh evidence   building? Uh could that be a location? Yeah. So,  we've looked at that in the past years. There's   um some parking lot concerns with that. Uh these  uh pieces of equipment are uh heavy um very heavy.   uh even though they're built on some of them on  a 550 chassis, it's by the time you make them   armored or they are very heavy. Um some of them uh  may fit inside that facility, some of them are not   going to fit due to the size of the garage door  and how tall these are. Um plus the I think the   um final nail in that is that building is  full. Um, when you open the garage door,   it is full with vehicles that we are mandated  by the district attorney to hold as evidence. Thank you, Captain Kulie. I see no further  questions for you. We will now open it up   for public comment. I see no one from the public  who would like to speak on this item. I'm gonna   bring it back to the bench. I will I see no  comments from council members. So I will go   ahead and move that the city council approve the  initiation of funds and authorize the necessary   signatures. Second motion and a second. Any  further discussion? I see none. Madame clerk,   please open the role. Motion passes 70.  Madame clerk, please call the next item.   Public hearing and request by Lang Gen Y LLC  for approval of a letter of intent to issue   issue industrial revenue bonds. Honorable  mayor, members of council, Troy Anderson,   assistant city manager. Um, we're going to call a  little bit of an audible here. I know there's been   some conversation about postponing this item. Um,  and so I could go through the whole slide deck,   but in the interest of everybody's time, um, with  that being said, this was advertised for a public   hearing. So, an alternative recommendation for  you today, hold a public hearing and then you can   either continue the public hearing to a time in  which you postpone the item or you can close the   public hearing and then postpone the item. But at  a minimum recommendation is to uh hold the public   hearing and then take whatever appropriate  action. Otherwise, I'll stand for questions.   Uh questions for staff. Council member Gl. Thank  you, Mayor Troy. Does that mean that we could just   open it to public comment or do we have to open  a public comment for the public hearing? It's a   public hearing, but yes, it's opening for a public  hearing. Yes, you would have to open the hearing   and have anyone's comments and then you would  close the public hearing. So, do I need to make   that as a motion? Uh if that's what we're going  to do. Yes. Okay. But I don't know whether you   want the presentation. If you're going to have the  public hearing so people know what they're talking   about. Likely the the applicant is not here. I  would extend the presentation for the November   6th meeting. So would I make a motion to open the  public hearing, provide public comment if there   is any, close the public hearing, and extend to  November 6th. So, you'll close the public hearing   after you hold the public hearing. Do I have  to make a motion to open the public hearing or   Okay. So, I move that we open the public hearing,  take public comment. Yep. Yes. That's my motion.   Without the presentation. Yep. Second. Motion.  Second. I'll mad clerk please open the role. Motion passes 70. We will now open it up for  public comment. I see no one from the public   who would like to address the council regarding  this item. We will bring it back to the bench.   I do have one question for staff. I want  to make sure um we are clear. Right now,   the property is levied $63,752 in property taxes.  If this was to move forward, they would still have   to pay those property taxes or they would be able  to abate the current amount that they currently   owe. As it's contemplated, any abatement would  be on the increase in property value. So,   they would still have to make the city whole  with the 63,752 with the addition of inflation,   etc. So, they would still make  the city USD259. Yes. Payment   to all taxing jurisdictions. Yes. Thank you,  Council Member Blasco. Thank you, Mayor. Um,   quick question. So, now would I make a motion  to extend the public hearing or make a motion   to close the public hearing and then we  would have to open a new public hearing? Okay. I make a motion to close the  public hearing ex and defer action   until the November 6th city council  meeting. Second motion and a second.   Any further discussion? I see none.  Madame clerk, please open the roll. And point of clarification, November  6 is our nighttime meeting. Everyone,   it is not a Tuesday. It is actually a Thursday. Motion passes. 70. Madame clerk,  please call the next item.   Public hearing and request by Larksfield Place  Retirement Communities Incorporated for approval   of a letter of intent to issue healthc care  facilities revenue bonds. Honorable mayor,   members of council, Troy Anderson, assistant city  manager. So, this application comes to us from uh   Larksville Place Retirement Communities. Uh you'll  hear me refer to them as Larksfield throughout.   They are a notfor-profit comprehensive retirement  and nursing facility. They've operated in Witchaw   for more than 30 years. They are requesting a  letter of intent for the issuance of healthc   care facility revenue bonds and an amount not to  exceed $60 million. They're going to use those   proceeds to finance construction of 48 independent  living units and then also expand upon and modify   other amenities on site. We're going to refer to  this as the project. With that being said, uh,   property tax abatement's not being requested as  part of this. Uh, as a notfor-profit, Larksfield's   generally exempt from ad valerum property taxes.  The property is and the project is eligible for a   sales tax exemption. Though the approximate value  of the sales tax exemptions about 2.25 million,   city share being about 168,000. My standard  disclaimer on IRBs or excuse me, in this case,   healthcare facility revenue bonds. Um, they're  a mechanism for achieving a sales tax exemption   or property tax abatement. In a revenue bond  transaction, city's not lending any money. Bears   no risk. Company's required to acquire all of its  own financing. No taxpayer dollars are at risk.   All costs are borne by the company requesting  the use of the bonds. Larksfield agrees to   pay all costs of issuing the bonds, paying the  annual obligate or excuse me, origination fee   and then ultimately the bonds will be purchased  by Larksfield or a related entity. All the bond   documents will be prepared by outside council  but ultimately approved by the law department   in their final form prior to the issuance. With  that being said, it's recommended city council   hold a public hearing subsequently then close a  public hearing adopt the resolution and authorize   the ne sign signatures. We do have representatives  here uh from the applicant that uh if you have any   questions I'd be more than happy to answer those  as well. questions for staff or the applicant. I   will since the applicant is here um I know that  Larksfield Place provides a lot of um housing   for individuals who are older. Can you just tell  us the plans that you have for Larksfield Place? Hi, I'm Mike Campbell, uh CEO of Luxfield  Place, and our plans include the 48 units   that was mentioned. We currently have  185 units of independent living. We have   um 80 uh units of uh skilled nursing  and 72 units of assisted living. So,   the additional 48 units would be independent  living added to the 185 that we already have.   Thank you very much. I see no further questions  for staff or the applicant. We will now open it   up for public comment. I see none. I'll bring  it back to the bench. This resides in council   member Tuttles's district. Thank you. I just  want to thank Troy as always. Thank you for   all your hard work in this. Um I appreciate you  shephering the applicant through the process. Um,   I also want to thank Larks Place Retirement  Communities for investing in Witchah. Um,   I I know there's a need for this type of housing.  We need all housing. We heard that earlier,   right? We need apartments. We need multif family.  We need single family. And we also need places for   people to be able to age in place. And if we don't  have that, then unfortunately people will have to   leave our community at a time in their life when  we certainly want them to stay close to us. So,   thank you again for investing in Witchah. And  with that, I would move that the city council   close the public hearing, adopt the resolution,  and authorize the necessary signatures. Second   motion and a second. Any further discussion? I  see none. Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion passes. 70. Madame clerk, please call the  next item. Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility   Act public hearing and approval of the issuance  of revenue bonds. Honorable mayor, members of   council, Troy Anderson, assistant city manager.  Um, this one's a little bit different. The we see   these every once in a while, but kind of generally  follows the same construct. Uh, this one though is   uh the Indiana Finance Authority, which in  this case will be the issuer of the bonds,   is a multi-state issuer of bonds. Um, the  issuer intends to issue 501c3 bonds in an   aggregate amount of uh not to exceed $1.4 billion  to actually 1 4 billion7 million to be loaned to   Ascension Health Alliance. You'll hear me refer  to them as Ascension to finance or refinance   capital improvements. These capital improvements  will occur across nine states in including Kansas   specifically. There's $60 million worth of  investment that's going to occur in Witchah,   $35 million for Ascension Via Christie St.  Francis, 20 million in a new facility at 12108   West Kellogg, and 5 million in renovation to  the Ascension Via Christie St. Joseph property.   Um but because these are a multi-state issuance,  uh the issuance of the bonds by the issuer must be   approved by the city because these particular  improvements and these facilities are located   within the territorial limits of the city. There's  no economic incentives being offered as part of   this. Not for-profit hospitals are generally  exempt from adaler property taxes. There's no   direct financial consideration for the city. Legal  considerations for you. Uh revenue code requires a   local government to hold a public hearing. The  issuers bond councils provided the form of the   resolution to approve. Therefore, it's recommended  the city council hold a public hearing and then   subsequently approve the resolution, authorize the  necessary signatures. We do have uh council for   ascension uh as well as our own bond council here  if you have any unique questions as it relates to   sort of this particular process and application.  But otherwise, I'll stand for questions. Questions   for staff? I see none. We'll open it up for public  comment. I see none. Oh, we see some individuals. I'm Carol Samson. Um I am worked as a nurse for um  the ascension facilities for 41 here years here.   I'm an ICU nurse on the St. Joseph's campus. I  belong to the National Nurses United Union. Um   I our concern about this is um you know when  Ascension came in and combined St. Joseph and   St. Francis they consolidated a lot of services.  St. Joseph lost neuro, we lost gastrointestinal   services, we lost um orthopedic services, we had  limited cardiology services. Now we have they took   away our cast lab. We have IV services and EEG  services that are served at both hospitals. So   that limits us. We also have limited MRI services.  Now due to staffing, we only have it um 8 to 3   Monday through Friday. and radiology services  are um amongst all three hospitals. So our big   concern is you know we can't we have problems  staffing this now and staffing our hospitals.   So how are we going to staff another facility  that um you know our ERS are both understaffed   now. Our other concern is if they build this  building are they going to get rid of like um our acute our primary facilities and um our urgent  care facilities because you know our community   needs finances that are available for people  to go to. ER services are very expensive. We   do want to make sure they don't get rid of  the urgent care services. Um that being said,   you know, those are our big concerns.  Erin's going to talk a little bit about   a couple other things. We'll have one  individual at a time. So, um are you   finish with your comments. Well, I think that's  the big thing. You know, we're underst staffed   now. We all all of our units have beds closed. A  big concern to all our staff is how are we going   to staff these? Where are these nurses going to  come from? We have travelers now. We don't even   know how we're going to travel the opening  of the expanded St. Joe ER right now. So,   I think those are our main concerns.  Thank you. Thank you, Vice Mayor Johnston. Oh, Council Member Ballard. Thank you.  Is there somebody here to represent? There was. Okay. Unfortunately, yes. I would  be curious to have a response to I mean I think   our concern legitimate there is legal counsel.  He may be able to respond but Okay. Thank you. Hi everyone. I'm JT Clausen with Spencer Feain  here in Witchah. I'm actually assisting the bond   council in Sacramento, California that's issuing  these bonds on behalf of the Indiana Finance   Authority. Um we did have Christopher Dodson here  today, the chief strategic officer, but uh he just   couldn't stay any longer. I'm going to do my best.  Um the uh 60 million that they would dedicate for   use in Witchita would be to replace all of uh the  beds and equipment at St. Francis which should   provide both for better patient care as well as  uh be a a boon to staffing who will be able to use   all new equipment. Um, as for the uh West Witchah  facility, um, I I think we can all acknowledge   there is a staffing problem, uh, but there is also  an emergency room problem uh, in Witchah. And I   know that Ascension feels like this will go a long  way towards helping assist with that project and   and slowing down the wait times in the emergency  rooms. The 5 million at St. Joseph is all for   equipment. Um there's no additional services being  considered or provided at those facilities, just   all new equipment, including diagnostic equipment.  That should be a benefit uh to the uh staff there,   including the nurses. So that's the purpose of  the bond issue. If that helps, I knew that, so   I thought I would provide it. I'd be delighted to  try and answer any other questions you have. Thank   you. Thank you, Vice Mayor Johnston. Okay. Thank  you, Mayor. I can probably speak to it, too. I was   on the board when the two on the hospital board  when the two uh entities combined and the thinking   at that time was there were three hospitals doing  three of everything and Witch didn't need three   hospitals doing three of everything. They needed  basically two hospitals still keep the competition   and still cover the the city. So, it was a  financial decision uh for the hospital and for   the city and I think they've realized uh savings  from that. Um secondly, um I was at their opening   I or pre-opening for their emergency room in St.  Joe. It's really nice. Um it will address the   uh mental health in our community. Um I think they  have 21 beds just for mental health. um which is   greatly needed in this community because that's  where almost all the mental health patients are   taken by the police department. So third thing I  will say is I did ask them about uh the west er   is it needed and they have data and research that  says it is needed. I said will it will it hurt the   St. Teresa ER and it won't. Um they say they're  still going to have and I can't remember the exact   numbers. I think it's 15,000 patient visits at  St. Teresa. They'll think they'll have the same at   uh at uh which they have now the same on West  Kellogg. So it just it speaks to the tremendous   growth in that area. It also speaks to the need  for a Northwest Expressway and improving West   Kellogg, which this hospital will be on one of  those intersections that is slated to be improved.   So, I hope that answers your questions. Um, I was  in on those conversations years ago, so about it.   Thank you. We'll continue with public comment.  Thank you. My name is Aaron Ruber. My address   is 1519 North Timothy Lane. I've been a nurse at  Ascension Via Christie St. Francis for eight and   a half years. I work in the neurocritical care  unit there and I'm also a member of National   Nurses United and today I'm here to represent all  the nurses at St. Francis and St. Joseph and to   bring up some of our concerns related to this. And  so we want to start out by saying our main concern   is not adding more health care facilities  to Witchaw. We stand here for our patients,   our community. Our main concern is Ascension has  a a kind of a dubious track record of disguising   their initiatives and actually causing detriment  to the health in the these communities. They're   they're a profit driven nonprofit organization at  the end of the day. And we see that in our patient   care every day. They they're their only goal is to  honestly uh kind of drip every dollar they can out   of us and our patients. Um, in some conversations  with our our CNO, our chief nursing officer,   she has brought up that the bottom line, no matter  what, is productivity. And we have asked her what   that means, and she describes that as the maximum  number of patients for the shortest number of or   for the lowest number of nurses. And that makes  makes us worried about like what will happen at   this Westside ER that will open. Are they going to  take nurses from our hospital, St. Francis and St.   Joe, and just drag them to this Westside ER? Is  the short staffing going to get even worse? And   we understand that we do need more ER beds as  well. But then when we're blocking beds at St.   Francis and St. Joseph, these reduced ER weight  times are just going to actually continue to   grow or the ER weight times will still be there  because there's nowhere for these ER patients to   go because the the hospitals themselves are still  blocked up with block beds and reduced nurses. So, and along with that, um, I would I'm sorry,  Carol already mentioned it that ascension,   we want to make sure that they keep  their primary care services open and   their urgent care facilities  open. And along with that, I think we're bad. Um, mo most of all, we just  want to reiterate, we we're here to help the   healthcare of our community, and we're not  opposed to this opening, but we just want   to make sure that it's done right. And we're  asking the city council if they do issue this   bond that they hold Ascension accountable to the  money because at the end of the day, Ascension   will see that dollar sign that comes forward and  they're going to go, "Give me, give me, give me,   give me." But we want to make sure that that money  is used appropriately and for the community and   for the patients, not for Ascension's pocketbooks.  And I mentioned that Ascension has a track record   of actually harming communities and their  healthcare. We have some more information   about that as well. Okay. Thank you. Councils Vice  Mayor Johnston. Thank you. Uh I'm going to come to   Defense of Ascension. Um it's a great hospital.  I will tell you that of the two systems in town,   they're the ones who take care of poor people.  They're the ones who set up uh ERS for us free   of charge to get our patients um uh surgeries,  MRIs, other things. So, they're they are a great   community partner. Now, sounds like there's some  uh employee relation issues that they've got,   but uh they are absolutely a great partner. They  do their research. They they do what they say. Um   they do need to operate like a business because  if you lose money, you're you're not going to   be in business. And they're their profit margins  are really really slim. Um I knew they they were   uh early in the year things were not good. Um I  know them well. Uh lately it's been been pretty   good. So they've kind of turned the corner.  So I believe in their leadership. I believe in   what they're doing. um they're very strategic  and uh they have to present everything to the   corporate office to get it and justify it. So  they research it really well. Um also mentioned   that the the WSU School of Nursing is going  to be renamed Ascension School of Nursing. So   they're investing in that workforce and trying  to get scholarships for people to get into the   nursing field. Uh Newman University does the same  thing. So they're really investing try to invest   in future workforce too. So I think you're being  a little hard on them. Um it's a great system and   I think they would do a wonderful job. So may I  give you this information then? Sure. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Hoheiser. Thank you,  Mayor. Um I appreciate your perspective. Um   especially from somebody with boots on the ground.  Do you think it's more of a barrier of educational   opportunities that's leading to this shortage? Do  you see with WSU Tech, maybe the KU, WSU biomed   school, if there will be more opportunities  to backfill some of these positions? Um,   there's I wouldn't describe it as a nursing  shortage. There's there's plenty of nurses across   the country who have actually quit working bedside  because they've been pushed away because of the   job climate that companies like of Ascension have  created at the bedside. They are constantly short   staffed. They're expected to take care of too  many people. There are too many patients that   they don't have the resources to take care of. And  because of that they suffer from moral distress,   moral injury because they know that they what to  do and how to do the right thing but they don't   have the resource to to do that. And so instead  of working at like hospital bedsides, they go   and work at a surgery clinic or in physician's  office or something. So there are plenty of nurses   who can have the opportunity to work at those  hospitals and reduce that short staffing problem,   but they don't feel supported by the comp  companies that who just are only seeking that   productivity. I can appreciate you sharing your  perspective here and I'm glad to have uh somebody   in the medical field here because I think there's  seven of us up here that need flipped to avoid the   uh bed source from this long meeting today.  So um thank you for sharing your perspective,   sir. Thank you, Vice Mayor Johnston. I will point  out that there is a nursing nursing shortage   because a lot of nurses have figured out if they  become traveling nurses, they can make two and a   half to three times more than what they make. So,  a lot of them went traveling to to Portland. I've   got a a cousin that does that. They travel all  over and then they're resented by the nurses like   you. Well, I I do not resent travel nurses.  They fill an important role in the hospital,   even though they're making three times more than  you and you're working right alongside of them.   How how could I resent somebody who's providing  an important care and taking care of my patients,   my community? Okay. I've I've heard it from other  nurses that, you know, why are they making two and   three times more than than what I'm making? I  guess. May I ask you a question, sir? Sure. Do   you think it's appropriate that they're making  two to three times as much as somebody who's   here supporting their community locally? No, I  don't think it's appropriate. Ascension will pay   them that much. Do you think that's appropriate?  Well, every every hospital in the in the country   is doing that because they have to st they have  to have minimum staffing standards, as you know,   and so they have to have nursing. So, they keep  the dollars keep going up until they can get   their nurses nurses to their hospitals. So,  it's not something they want to do, you know,   it's it's millions and millions of dollars  to them. Um, I understand your perspective,   sir. It just seemed backwards to what  you stated previously. So, yeah. Okay,   thank you. Thanks for being here, Council Member  Johnson. Thanks, Mayor. I just wanted to say thank   you for being here. Appreciate your perspective.  Um, talking to anybody in the medical field after   the pandemic. Hats off to you. Thank you for what  you do. Um, for this item though, I just wanted   to know what you were kind of looking for us to  do. We're having a public hearing on this. Are   you looking for an approval or denial or you just  wanted to share a perspective? From the beginning,   we want to say we do not oppose this. We just  want to make sure the funds are used appropriately   by Ascension. We support more health care in  the community. We just want to make sure the   city council holds attention to using those  funds appropriately. Okay. Thank you. Yes,   we'll continue. Council member T. Oh, thank you.  Just a quick question and I'm sorry if I I did   miss it. What union what is the organization  again that you're with? National Nurses United.   National Nurses United. Thank you. Thank you  for being here today. I know it's been a very   long meeting. yellow troopers. So, thank you.  Thank you. We'll continue with public comment. My name is Doug Prader. I have been a nurse  in the Witchaw area since 1997. And uh really   all I wanted to say was uh the experience that I  have had has been as a bedside nurse in coronary   intensive care. I have been a travel nurse. I have  changed jobs a couple of times here in the uh city   of Witchah because of market conditions. At one  point in time, the only true way to get a raise   was to change jobs. I have worked bedside in ICU.  I have worked bedside as a med surge nurse and   I currently work as a step down uh ICU nurse in  cardiothoracic care at St. Francis Hospital. Uh,   I will support the nurses that have been before  me here. My only concern is to make sure that   the money is used appropriately and that we hold  Ascension accountable for the usage of that money   in the way that they say they're going to use  it. My biggest concern, the reason for stepping   up here is currently we have um patients being  held in overflow in the emergency department.   I am not sure that creating more emergency  department beds is going to do anything for   that overflow. I would much prefer to see actual  inpatient beds or this money go towards inpatient   bed placement to get these patients that are  being held for extended periods of time in the   emergency department. some coming to me 24, 36, 48  hours after arriving at the hospital. Additional   emergency room beds does not seem to me to resolve  this problem. The problem would be resolved more   with inpatient beds. New equipment is great. I  need new equipment. I support this the bond issue,   but I'm not 100% sure that I support 20 million  of it going for additional emergency department   beds when I need additional inpatient beds to  place those already in the emergency department.   I appreciate your time. Thank you, Vice Mayor  Johnston. Thank you for your comments. um by your   own admission, there's not enough emergency beds  uh in the city. Now, it used to be when I was on   the board, St. Joe Hospital had the busiest ER in  the in the state of Kansas, including Kansas City.   Now, it's St. Francis that has the busiest ER.  So, I think I'm just guessing, they didn't tell me   this, but I'm guessing that some of that Westside  er will take some of the the stress off of St.   Francis because people come from from Goddard and  Maize and all those western communities are coming   in and they're going to St. Francis Hospital.  That's the closest one besides St. Teresa. So   I I think that's the thinking is they can take  some of that weight off of St. Francis. So they'll   probably transfer those patients to St. Teresa. I  would guess. Well, I do understand and appreciate   that line of thinking. However, my emergency  department would not be backed up if I had the   correct number of beds, inpatient beds to place  them. If I have 50 patients holding in the ED and   30 only 30 beds available, I can't get them out.  That creates what appears to be a need for more   uh emergency department beds. when in fact if I  could open up every bed in the hospital I could   clear the emergency department then we wouldn't  have the need for the additional emergency broom   beds what the real need is is for inpatient  beds so that patients being held in properly   in emergency rooms can be admitted inpatient  and treated properly by nurses trained to treat   patients as inpatient not nurses treat trained  to treat patients in emergency situations. I I   agree with you and I think 30 million of this is  going to St. Francis and I don't quote me on this,   but I think they told me that there are will be  some more inpatient beds so they can clear that   emergency room out easier. So I'm pretty sure  some of that 30 million is going to that. So thank you. We will continue with public comment.  I see no further public comment. We will close   public comment and bring it back to the bench.  Council member Glascon. Thank you. Briefly,   I just want to say thank you for spending time  waiting and coming here. Most uh would have   walked out by now. So, thank you for engaging  the process and sticking through us today. this project. Again, I want to make sure that  the applicant has the time one more time to   tell us the $60 million is mostly for beds and  equipment and the new facility on West Kellogg. Yes, Mayor Woo, that's correct. And there's  uh 5 million for additional equipment at   uh St. Joseph as well. Uh in response to one of  the questions that asked, just like in the city   of Witchah, these monies when issued through bonds  are placed in trust and held by a trustee and can   only be withdrawn for the purposes for which they  were applied for and which were approved by you.   So for instance, they could not spend the money  somewhere else or on something else other than   you're approving today, which is the purpose of  this taffer hearing. And I thought you might might   want me to acknowledge that. One more question for  you. Yes. The dollars that would be approved here,   which again we're not giving you a loan of $60  million. Um, however, those dollars are not to   staff. Correct. This is for equipment. Uh, the  bonds can improve. The bonds can only be issued   for capital improvements and can't be used for for  uh what we would call operating expenses. And so,   they will be used for uh new equipment. A lot of  that is new diagnostic equipment, quite frankly,   at at St. Francis, as I understand it, new CT  scanners, uh, things that are needed there,   uh, in order to prove improve health care in our  community. Thank you. Again, thank you for the   investment and thank you to our healthcare  workers. Uh, we appreciate that you took   the time again to speak today. Um, and we're very  appreciative of public engagement in the process.   Um however again as the applicant representative  just mentioned this is not for operating expenses   but rather for capital improvement um equipment um  things that again do come before this council and   those dollars will be allocated for just that not  for staffing which is operating expenses. I wanted   that point of clarification and I appreciate  it. With that, I will move again this uh affects   council members in districts three, four, and six.  So, I will move that the city council hold the   public hearing approve the resolution approving  the issuance of the bonds by the Indiana Finance   Authority for the benefit of Ascension Via  Christy Hospitals Witchaw, Inc. Second motion   and a second. Any further discussion? I see  none. Madame clerk, please open the role. Sorry. And district five. Uh motion passes 70. Madame clerk, can you please call  the next item? First amendment to the   amended and restated development  agreement with EPC Real Estate. Uh, honorable mayor, members of council,  Troy Anderson, assistant city manager. So,   this item comes before you um holistically as  an amendment to the development agreement. Uh,   let me give you a little bit of background  and context around kind of how we've arrived   to where we are today. Uh first and  foremost, probably one of the underlying   um issues at play here is uh a base grant award.  So back in April of 2022, the city received a $5   million base grant award. At the time, the  performance end date was set for July 25,   2024. We'll come back to that date here in just  a little bit uh as we kind of better understand   the timeline and the impacts that that's had on  on the development. Um so leading up to that,   we end up going through what you all may recall as  uh the amended and restated development agreement.   I'll refer to it as the 2023DA throughout. Um that  was the agreement where whereby we we separated   what was previously a three-party agreement  involving the city EPC and WRLP to then just at   that point in time separate agreements between the  city and EPC and the city and WRLP. Um so this is   specifically the amended and restated agreement  the 2023DA with with uh EPC real estate. So,   it was for the construction of and the development  of tracks of land immediately east of the ballpark   on either side of MLAN, building 150 unit  apartment complex, 10,000 ft² of retail space,   a 260 stall parking garage, all of that sort of  being on the west side, what we'll refer to as the   multifamily sort of mixeduse project. Uh, and then  a 155key hotel on the east side of MLAN adjacent   to the river. the hotel project. Okay. So,  coming back to the base grant for just a minute,   right? Um, understanding that there's a there's  a period of time in which we are allowed to go in   and lower the river and make improvements to the  channel to uh and so as part of that base grant,   there were river bank improvements, but there's  a limited window in which we can go in and   make those improvements. Okay. So the end of  channel construction season about February 28,   2024 again that base grant performance end date  July 25 2024 the next time we would have been able   to get into the channel would have been September  1, 2024 sort of months after that performance end   date. So when we approved the amended and restated  agreement at the end of 23, we had a really really   short window and we tried really really hard  to hire an architect, go through the approvals,   onboard a contractor, and in essence were unable  to get in, make the riverbank improvements. So,   we immediately knew that we were going to need  to start engaging the state and requesting an   extension uh to asssure that we were going to  be able to spend all $5 million of those base   grant funds um to help support the riverbank  and riverfront improvements, which would then   again provide the necessary infrastructure to  see these projects, the multif family mixeduse   project and the hotel project come come up out  of the ground. So, fast forward to October 31,   2024, we finally get the extension from uh the  Department of Commerce. We worked really closely   with the Department of Commerce over several  weeks and months. Uh eventually had an outside   Otter Whit O'Brien that um we engaged in. Had to  bring them up to speed on kind of the history and   the timeline. um garnered their support and again  October 2024 got the extension. We immediately   are in the in the channel making the riverbank  improvements. Fast forward to June 25th, 2025,   which is when that performance end date was  extended to and we make all of the necessary   improvements. Uh we have since um closed that  base grant. uh have received confirmation from   the state that all $5 million uh was expended  appropriately for all the necessary improvement.   In fact, we're making, as you all know, uh an  additional $7 million in capital improvement uh   fund. So, it's actually about a $12 million  sort of riverbank uh improvement. And so,   we've deployed those first $5 million  uh specifically of base grant funds.   So throughout all of this, uh, there's been a a  kind of a conversation question around just kind   of the history and the timelines of what we refer  to as kind of Ballpark Village. Um, the first   trunch there you see is kind of going all the way  back to the original development agreement. Kind   of what that timeline would have looked like would  have extended clear out into 2028. you see kind of   the 22DA um where we'll come back with a condensed  version EPC is onboarded by WRLP couple months   later they immediately extend that um but then  as you all know where we pick up in 2023 where   we kind of separate those agreements. You see  the timeline kind of in that dark blue there um   of the trajectory of timeline that we're on right  now. And then ultimately knowing and understanding   that the substantial completion deadline as we  originally contemplated it was supposed to be   April of 2026. We know that's not going to happen  for all of the reasons we've somewhat described   here already. Delays in deploying the base grant  funds. had an incredibly sort of wet rainy season   this year that caused construction delays. Uh and  so you see there down in the uh on the bottom in   black kind of what the suggested extension of some  project milestones would look like uh as it might   affect that timeline. kind of touched on a little  bit of this. Um, given uncertainty surrounding   the base grant extension and the deployment of  those $5 million in funds, weather delays, other   macroeconomic headwinds. I'll I'll let sort of the  uh applicant describe those maybe in more detail.   Um, so we've we've boiled this down sort of really  simply to some basic amendments. on the one hand   bifurcating the rights and responsibilities.  Right? remember there's there's sort of two   projects going on. On the west side there's the  mixeduse project with um uh with the retail and   the parking garage and then on the east side is  the hotel separate and kind of unique investment   portfolios and then subsequently needing to  continue to extend the project milestones to   asssure that the developer will will uh complete  the project in time. um for a whole host of other   reasons I think we're all aware of. So you see  here, here's the amendments uh extending the   vertical construction milestone to July 31, 2026,  extending the substantial completion uh milestone   to July 31, 2028. Currently, there's no impact to  the general fund by taking this action here today.   The amendments have been reviewed and approved  as a form by the law department. Therefore,   it's recommended that city council  approve the amendments and authorize   all the necessary signatures. I do have a  representative from the applicant that would   like to say a few words. Um, and at this  point in time, I'll turn it over to him. Good afternoon, Mayor, City Council. Austin  Bradley with EPC Real Estate Group uh 8001 Metaf   Avenue sweet 300 Overland Park, Kansas 66204.  Um thank you again for your time. You know,   Troy did a great job kind of outlining where we've  been and where we are. Um really today what I want   to do is reaffirm our commitment to you all to  build the project that has been approved. We   all have the exact same goal. it is build that  project as fast as possible and this amendment   ensures puts this project on the track to to do  that. Um I hope you see diligent progress despite   all of those uh forces uh out of our control. Uh  we've been juggling a lot a lot of curve balls,   a lot of headwinds. It's not happening as quickly  as anybody wants to. We are as unhappy as anybody.   I can assure you of that. Nonetheless, we have  made diligence progress. You're seeing that on   site and there's an immense amount of work that is  happening in the background. Um not to belabor the   amendment itself, it does two things. One of which  is it separates it out. This is two different   ownership groups. Uh to make these projects  financable, we have to bifrocate the project   that that must happen. And secondly, we're simply  recasting sliding out the schedule um to align   with everything that has happened to date. That's  it. Again, these the approval of this amendment is   critical for this thing to move forward as quickly  as possible. re kind of coming back around to   some of the benefits that we've talked about at  length in the past. This project is going to add   much neededed housing to Delano. It's going to add  density to the downtown urban core. It's going to   introduce this mix of units it uses. And probably  most importantly, it's going to generate a lot of   sales tax. That project has not changed. We're  not asking for more incentives. We're not asking   for a dilution of the program. It's made our job  very difficult to deliver a project of this scale,   size, and quality, but nonetheless, that's  what we're committed to, and that's what we   will deliver. So, with that, we ask for your  approval of this amendment so we can continue   to work diligently as quickly as possible, get  this built as fast as possible, and I'd be happy   to answer any questions that you have. We'll begin  with Council Member Tunnel. Thank you. My question   is for Troy. Thank you, Austin. Troy, could you go  back to slide 79, please? I'm sorry, which slide   number? 79. 79. And sorry if I should know this.  I think I do, but I just want to confirm. We we've   talked a lot about parking um this last year. Can  you say more about the 260 stall parking garage?   Is it just for the hotel and for the apartments  or does the city get any of those spaces or how   does what's going to happen with parking? Yeah.  So, thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Um, thanks for   giving me an opportunity. So, this uh the way the  development agreement is structured today, uh,   the the developer will build the parking garage as  part of a mixeduse project. Um, upon substantial   completion, the city will purchase the parking  garage for a uh sort of not to exceed amount,   which has already been negotiated as part of  the development agreement. Um once once the city   acquires the parking garage again because it's in  substantial completion, we are immediately able   to sort of release some of that parking garage,  kind of a majority of the parking garage. There's   percentages laid out in the development agreement  uh to provide the necessary parking for the hotel,   for the apartments, for the retail. Um it's not  entirely 100% available to this development. There   will be public parking available uh and we'll  manage that as part of our parking management   assets. Um but ultimately, yes, we will acquire  the parking garage. It'll be owned, operated,   and controlled by the city, but we will be able to  lease back uh a percentage of those stalls in that   garage to benefit this particular development and  really folks in Deleno and beyond. Yeah. Way back   in 2019 when we approved the baseball stadium,  parking was, pardon me, was a huge concern and   one of the things that we kind of assured the  community is that when the development around   the baseball stadium happened, there would be more  parking available. So, this helps kind of fulfill   that that past obligation that we made to the  community. So, thank you for clarifying. Y Council   Member Glascock, thank you. A few questions.  Um, and this would probably be for Austin, the   applicant. Um really just two questions. When so  the vertical construction date would be July 31st   for things to go vertical according to the new  agreement. At what point would you know if that   is possible or not? Yeah, it's a great question.  Um sometime in early Q2 I think we would have a   good def we would have to frankly um we would  have a negotiated contract with our contractor   uh GMP in place. Um, a lot of that work that I  mentioned that's in place is building the pad,   a lot of the earth work, moving a lot of utilities  that have been there as part of the development   initially. Um, that all is is behind us, which  is great. We got a huge head start. Um, and so   that's really going to uh promote our ability to  jump in and and quickly go vertical. Um, obviously   our goal is to beat July 31st um, significantly,  but nonetheless, I would say early Q2 we should   have pretty good indication of that. I just want  to get to July 31st and nothing be done. And so   if we're going to know Q beginning of Q2 that  it's not possible to be completed by July 31st,   I'd be interested in that as a deadline. Um do you  have pen to paper regarding the hotel project? Pen   to paper meeting an official hotel um brand name.  That's Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we have a hotel   management agreement executed binding agreement.  Thank you. And that's a Hyatt affiliate. That's   that's not confidential. Thank you. Council member  Ballard. Thank you, Mayor. I don't know if this   is for Austin or Troy, but how can we ensure  the community that this is the last extension?   I know some of it is beyond, you know, what we  can control. But for anyone that may be losing   confidence, you know, just everybody's been really  excited, the ballpark's here, it couldn't be open   for a year, then it was open, you know, during  COVID basically with one handi tied behind our   back. just how can we ensure that this is the last  extension and that this is happening and so so on   and so forth. Yeah, great question and certainly  understand that. Um rewind three years ago I could   not have forecasted what's happened today. Um  you know so I I certainly don't have a crystal   ball. Um what I can tell you is you know we are  as close as we've ever been and have an immense   amount of capital uh resources uh deployed to get  us to where we are today. Um, so we are confident,   you know, that this is going to proceed. Again,  I don't have a crystal ball in terms of what else   could pop up, but at this g point in time, we feel  extremely confident about it. Thank you. Yeah,   Vice Mayor Johnston. Thank you, Mayor Austin.  What what happens if you number one is it   maybe for Troy? Is it is it for uh vertical start  vertical July 1st on the hotel or the apartments   or both? It's July 31st on both. on both. Yeah.  Okay. What if it doesn't happen by July 1, 31st? So from a technical legal ease process,  um within the development agreement,   there are sort of default pro proceedings, right?  Um we would generally inform the developer that   vertical construction has not commenced. They  have a period to cure. I believe the development   agreement also has kind of a second and final  notice. Uh and then at that point in time,   then we can uh take whatever necessary default  proceedings uh that are spelled out within the   development agreement. You guys at two 30-day  notices. I think that's right. I is that what I   read? Yeah, I I believe that's correct. Yeah. Yep.  Okay. Okay. I if that happens at that point, do   we go to court to get the the land back or do we  just get the land back or so? So So that becomes   a really nuanced question. Um a lot of it circling  around not necessarily vertical construction but   definition and and interpretation of commencement  of construction. But um yes, that probably becomes   uh arguably a very long drawn out process. Okay.  Well, I hope we don't get there. Yes. I don't   think we will. I don't think so either. So, yeah.  Let's start with questions for Troy. Can you go   back to the timeline? I think there are some dates  missing here and I think it's important for our   community to level set again with information. Uh  many of us on this council were not here when the   very first star bond was uh approved back in 2008.  Um there are actually two star bonds if I am not   mistaken that deal with this uh property. Um and I  have asked communications to provide that timeline   and I hope that um communications can put that  online so that community sees this information. I   know that Celeste uh reset often talks about this  and it can get confusing because we're talking   about two separate star bonds. um the star bond  that started in 2008 and then the star bond that   was established in 2017. The 2008 star bond was  for the river district. Um and so that's one area   and then the b the star bond in 2017 that's the  stadium project. Um and so again I know that there   are concerns uh because of a slide that you have.  Um, Troy, can you please go to slide number 84? This right here concerns me a lot. I know  that currently at this very moment, there's   no financial consideration um, regarding impacting  the general fund. So, those are taxpayer dollars.   However, because of the topic I just brought up,  which is the star bond and how to pay for the   stadium, um it does become our problem, meaning  taxpayer problem. Uh, can you please address um   how number one, the stadium was built, how it was  paid for, and I'm pretty sure we have a a a debt   payment coming up. So, please address how this  will be affecting us if we cannot fulfill. So,   in other words, we're it's going to be part of  our general fund if we can't generate enough   sales taxes to pay for this baseball stadium. Can  you please address all of those things which is   really it will affect the general fund if it does  not produce? Yeah. So I if you notice I'm looking   around hoping uh Mark Manning will dive in and  correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. So let   me try to kind of lay this plane a little bit. Um,  it's my understanding there was approximately $13   million in community improvement uh district funds  uh that were ultimately uh used as part of the   ballpark. There was $15 million in tax increment  financing funds. Another $42 million in what you   refer to as the star bond funds. Um there was  phase one as you alluded to the star bond project   circuit 2007. Uh and then the 20 or and then the  phase two project which was to your point 2017. So   uh phase one will sort of retire in 2027. 2027 all  of the development that is contributing to uh uh   the starbond payments will retire in 20. So 2028  is kind of this critical year, right? in 2028, um,   all of the phase one revenue will sort of go away.  It'll still continue to be captured and collected,   but it's no longer part of that starbond  district to go back and retire the debt. So,   we're left with um kind of the stuff east of the  river, right? And so 2028 becomes that critical   year where that doesn't expire until 2038, right?  So there will be from sort of 2028 to 2038 there   will still be another 10 years of of um star bond  revenue sort of C. I don't have the C tiff dates   on hand. I can get those out to everybody. But  we'll continue to collect not only the property   tax which is the tiff component but also the  sales tax which is the C and the star bond   component from 2028 to 2038. the debt retires in  2034. So there's sort of four years that we're   still going to be able to capture revenue on the  back end if for whatever reason to your point that   the general fund or the debt service fund needs to  make payments to cover the debt service obligation   in years 2028 through 2034. that transition  from sort of 2027 to 2028 becomes that critical   um transition period. Right now our trajectory  and our projections are uh particularly for   the C and the TIFF look look positive um uh and  look promising. Doesn't look like there's going   to be risk to sort of the C and TIFF. Uh but  obviously continuing to see development such   as this come online hopefully earlier then but  it by 2028 is going to continue to shore up our   ability to mitigate and reduce that risk to  sort of the general fund or debt service fund   in 2028 to continue to make those debt service  payments. I hope I articulated that well enough. Don't have fun, but I can get you a more detailed  explanation of all of that. Um, we're super   cautious about projections of those kind of things  just simply because we have no idea to the point   of the crystal ball, right, if if something's  going to happen. But just looking at trend lines   and just looking at trajectories, we still feel  pretty good about where we're going to be at with   retiring that debt associated to the ballpark  by 2038. Um but again, continuing to clear the   runway and make projects like this happen or  or assisting in making these projects happen   um is critical to long-term success. This question  is now for the city manager. city manager. This   obviously um many of us were not on the council  at that time, but you're the constant here. So,   I'm going to ask you questions. Um I know I have  talked about the debt um that the city will bear,   not this debt, but in general, we have a deficit.  And I've brought this up. I bring it up often,   especially during the budget, because I  know that there are looming things that are   happening that are also going to be put on the  backs of taxpayers. And so, while people think   I'm just the lone no against the budget because  I'm against spending dollars, I I want us to be   prudent that we have looming budget deficit  plus debt that is going to be accumulating.   Can you address how this will continue to not only  will we have a deficit, we also have this debt   that's looming and as of right now there there's  there's nothing that's generating sales taxes   on the property that we're about to consider.  Can you please address how councils before us   uh thought about this as something that was wise  to do um when we're in 2025? I know you cannot   predict COVID, you cannot predict weather,  you cannot predict the base grant delays,   but I just I have a lot of um concern uh because  I don't want this to again fall on taxpayers   backs. Um mayor, so let's you know, let's talk  a little bit about the history of the project.   Um, it was I think the council wanted to put a  package together, wanted all of us to work on a   package that would recognize there's always risk  when we're talking about uh development. The idea   was that the development that occurred around the  stadium would then help pay for a majority of the   debt. There's a portion of the debt that it was  u out of the go and that was actually referenced   earlier today when we talked about money being  moved over from Crystal Prairie Lake. Portion   of that was um then assigned to the stadium and  uh incur we incurred debt. Um a lot of moving   pieces on this one as Troy said um so far we've  done pretty well. Um it looks as if we are moving   forward in a way that um our tiff and CD debt will  be satisfied through revenues that have been gener   generated so far and into the future. Um the in  ter star bond seems to be the only wild card and   the state did have a had a backs stop provision  uh that we were to transfer transfer funds um if   there's any uh deficiency in our ability to pay.  So far we have exceeded our expectations on the   uh sales tax to support star bonds. in fact to  the point that in 2024 the uh trustee for the   star bonds uh redeemed an additional $8 million in  principle um which was beyond what was scheduled   for that year and then the following year this  year has redeemed an additional 815 on top of   what was scheduled. though we've advanced paid  on a almost just slightly less than $9 million   which is good in terms of how that helps us going  forward because that principle coming off will   reduce then our interest obligations going uh  to the end. Should a project not go forward and   we don't have revenue, they're probably right now  just what's in today's district and assuming that   uh well, not assuming, we know that we will  have the phase one debt go off at the end of 27,   there's probably about a gap of about $250,000 a  year. And if uh this project moves forward as is   anticipated that any money that would be needed  in the early years say 28 29 would operate just   like a tiff district and there would be  more than anticipated revenues in the back   half and we would make up for the any money  that came out of pocket. So in other words,   this will work just like a tiff district and  we anticipate that the debt of $42 million   in principle, actually total 62 million with  interest, will be paid off at the end of 2038. I was not here when we made a vote on a  new stadium. Um, and again, I would have   not been in support of it had I been on this on  this council. However, it is built and there is   debt and that means we have to be responsible with  how we're going to pay it back. And one of the   ways to pay it back is when there's development  on that property so that there's sales taxes that   then are generated to help pay for said new  capital investment. So again, this is a very   um difficult conversation for all of us because we  just two months ago had another conversation about   another failed development and that's um just  across the river. And so I feel very um concerned   for citizens because they feel as though every  couple years we ask for either extensions or a   renewal of something that should have been already  completed. And so I have expressed my concerns to   the applicant um knowing that this community wants  a real commitment. And again, I don't think the   commitment has changed from 2023. The proposal for  this project has maintained its quality and also   what they are expecting to provide. So now I'm  going to ask a question to the applicant. Austin, do you actually have the funds to carry  this project forward? Happy to report we   have our financing in place on both. um equity  conversations are advanced on both. We have the   majority of the capital stack pulled together.  This is a crucial amendment that has to happen   to allow us to finalize pulling that capital  stack together and part of that on the front   end of the amendment bifurcating. This is a direct  result of those engagements with our our bank on   both projects. Then my next question is this. Um  obviously this is going to be delayed. However,   out of the two properties, hotel versus housing,  the the property taxes for the apartments have a   abatement for a while. However, the hotel can  start generating dollars and sales taxes that   can help pay for what we currently have as debt.  Can you talk to me about moving up the timeline   for hotel versus the apartments? And can you do  that so that we can start generating dollars to   help pay for this debt? Yeah, quick clarification.  So the apartments that do have 10,000 ft of retail   and so obviously that could be a office use  potentially if it's commercial space. It could   also be retail. So that will generate some sales  tax that will help. Obviously it's not 158 key   hotel with two FNB components to it. So totally  understand the question but wanted to make that   clarification. Um, as far as the hotel, again,  there's an immense amount of complexities on   these sites. It's with any urban development in  any city. We have a baseball stadium next door.   We have a river, two active uh corridors,  um, MLBs involved relative to our cranes.   When can our cranes be vertical? When can  be operating relative to game days, keeping   pedestrian friendly paramount at the forefront.  So, it's really limiting from a means and methods,   our construction ability. So, all that said, yes,  I think that's absolutely possible. And frankly,   that's our intent. We are still working through  that however with our contractor relative to   layown space, parking, so on and so forth. And  so that that'll be an ongoing exercise that our   team will continue to diligently pursue. What  I can tell you though is both the hotel and   the apartments, our goal is to get those going  concurrently as quickly as possible. Can I ask   for the hotel to come online sooner than even  the apartments? And I know that there's parking   concerns because there's a parking garage  to help with your guests, right? However,   um we want to make sure that we have some sort of  commitment here regarding at the very least this   hotel. Yeah. Um I'm going to ask city manager what  can be done in order to have at least the hotel   start generating dollars. So this project while it  will be bifurcated, can you have the hotel come up   sooner? Well, it's going to be a function of their  ability to get out of the ground. I do think in my   discussions with Austin that he has the ability  to get that hotel moving quicker and to possibly   get it completed beforehand. Um, I I don't know if  there's anything we can do that will help expedite   that uh other than to continue on building review  as we have done, but I believe that it's your   intent to move forward in that regard. Yeah. And  and the hotel will go quicker once we start. So,   if if both start at the same time, the hotel  will deliver before the multif family. Um,   it all we'll need a a cooperative kind of workable  neighborhood, right? So, if we're going to lose   our layown space, we got riverfront improvements  we're dealing with. We got potentially another   development to the north on the church property,  active game day site. So, it's really just going   to be a a collaborative effort to ensure that we  can effectively build this deal by the time we   need to have it complete. So, by function, the  hotel is a shorter construction duration the   apartments. So, I think it's it's absolutely very  possible. We just need to think through, you know,   what that means from a a means and methods and  a logistics standpoint as we build the projects.   Mayor Mayor, if I could, I'm sorry, I misspoke  on the deficit. If we if this project doesn't   go forward and we uh only rely on our revenue  today in the Starbond District, it's 2.5 million   annually, not 250,000. and I went back and looked  at my notes and uh I apologize for making that   mistake. So that tells you about the importance  of this project in terms of eliminating that gap.   So again, $2.5 million we would have to find in  the general fund in the in sales tax revenues.   Yes. Which would probably either would come in  debt service in the CIP or it would come out of   the general fund. And there's different ways to do  it in the general fund, but yes, that is correct.   So again, can you explain that one more time? How  imperative something actually gets delivered? And   I understand frustration from community wanting  to see things happen sooner. They think that they   could build it themselves. And I and we know from  having conversations uh because all seven of us   have had uh conversations with the applicant to  understand the project just how difficult it has   been to get to this position in time. However,  I do want to make mention that we are giving   away free land and also a lot of different tax  incentives to get this ball rolling. And so it is   a little bit frustrating and I speak on the behalf  of the community on their frustration that nothing   has come online uh so far. And I understand  that there have been things out of your control,   but that is the sentiment of this community,  their frustration in seeing things keep on   getting delayed. Um and so again my question will  be back to the city manager. How imperative is it   that something actually gets developed here  as promised? It it is very imperative mayor   and I think uh in your discussion or your uh  inquiry regarding the hotel that's why it is   so important if we we need sales tax generated in  this district as soon as possible to be able to   satisfy the star bond debt requirements and that  also goes for the retail portion of the project.   We have been fortunate. The baseball stadium has  generated more revenue than we anticipated and the   district is doing well today. But um that uh we  need to continue to have development in order for   us to meet all of our debt obligations. Council  member Ho Heisel. Thank you, Mayor. Um so yeah,   there's two issues here that I see. One is  making sure this project gets done ASAP as   quickly as possible. The second is how are  we going to fill the the gap in between   when we start having to pull out of our general  fund. So one of the star bonds is set to expire   in 27. Yes. End of Okay. Is that is there any  possibility to spitballing here that we could   get that extended? Is that a state thing that  they could look at to help pay off this debt?   So I want to make sure that we're all saying  the same thing too point of clarifically sort of phase two. It's the phase one. Um the  phase one is what sort of falls off in 2027.   We still have the same one star bond district  right that will continue. To answer your question   about the extension probably not right. I I don't  know if we can get an extension on it, but again,   some of the conversations we've had is that  right now the debt is slated to retire in 2034,   but the district won't retire until 2038. So  we still have years on the back end where we're   capturing sort of the whole trunch of revenue  in those out years to cover any delta or gap   that existed in year sort of 28 to 34. Right. I  I get that. It's just how do we fill that gap in   between so we're not paying for it out front  out of the general fund in a time that we're   going to be pinched. And so just a point of  clarification, when you say phase one expires,   does that mean that there's less revenue  coming in from the start bond? Yes. Yes.   Okay. So again, is that something that we can have  a conversation with maybe our state? We can. Yeah,   we can reach out to the state and see if there's  um some options, right? We can talk to our bond   council. We can reach out to the Department of  Commerce. we can have those conversations and see   um what there are things that we can do  to help mitigate that risk in those out   years. It's absolutely something we can start  talking to folks about now for sure. Okay. Yeah,   I think that's a conversation we need to have.  Yep. Thank you. I see no further questions for   staff. Thank you, Troy. Thank you, Austin.  We will now open it up for public comment. Thank you, Mayor Woo. Celeste, West  Witchaw, longtime Witchaw native. Anyway,   I got to go back. I I try to correct things that  are said and I apologize when I'm incorrect,   but earlier um it was misspoken that there was  not an administrative regulation to keep track of   donations from developers. So I went to my office  and printed it and I can give a copy to you. I   can give a copy to city manager Leighton. But  this administrative regulation was violated when   there were two donations received from developer  Jay Russell in 2024 because the administrative   regulation that you all are to follow as the  city of Witchaw is that any amount that exceeds   um $250,000 or more in a year and his was  400,000 needs an agreement, needs an agenda,   and needs minutes. And neither one of those were  done until a year later. So, if you want a copy,   I could hand it out. But, um, I wanted you to know  I was correct. We violated our administrative regs   when we took that donation from Jay Russell,  which I've got copies of here, before we signed   the agreement in 25. I I I don't want to get this  into a debate. Technically, we didn't because that   was not adopted until after this time. We did  not have that donation AR in place before that   to my recollection. And it was adopted I believe  in April of 25. Was there one before this though   that you were amending? Not if we did it was  substantially different I believe. But on top   of that we did meet if you read there it talks  about accepting donations in advance of council   action but making sure that the council then  because I looked at this Celeste after you and   I visited this afternoon. So we can debate this.  We can debate this later if there was another   amendment. Again, I'm just trying to say we're  missing information when the public hears from you   all. And if there was a previous administrative  regulation, it'd be nice to know that without me   having to guess when I come up here. Celeste, I'll  let your time start back over since again this was   regarding a different topic and we don't usually  take that, but because there was a clarification,   I'm going to just start over the time, but can we  stick to this specific issue? Absolutely. Okay.   So, what I want to say about this ball stadium is  that it is actually kind of a convoluted mess. And   there are two of you that were on city council  when the ball stadium was approved. The rest of   you, you're right, are new, weren't part of this  agreement. But the contracts were written without   strict clawbacks. Land was given away without  strict timelines. So, the debt that we are facing   right now from decisions that were made before the  rest of you came on board. We've got 42 million in   star bonds. We've got 13 million in SID bonds.  And we got 14 million in tiff bonds. And yes,   the clock has started ticking. In addition,  we gave away prime real estate land alongside   the Kansas River for a dollar an acre. And the  promise was for apartments, hotel, restaurant,   and retail establishments. But several mistakes  were made from the get-go. There was no vote   for taxpayers. You all on city council that have  been here, there's two of you, made this without   any vote by taxpayers. We had no voice. Projected  revenue was overstated. Instead of using what the   consultants had said we'd get from the revenue,  you allowed the city manager to increase those   revenue estimates. And Topeka now with Star Bonds  has clamped down on that and said you must use   third-party estimates. You can't use in-house  estimates. So that's good. But you let the city   manager up the estimates. So, we overbuilt and we  didn't meet these deadlines and there hasn't been   enough happening to meet the schedule that we were  relying on. So, let's start with talking about the   C debt. I've got the schedule right here. This is  the C debt and the payments are going to kick into   starting in 2026 to over a million dollar a year.  And I will give you a copy if you want it. This   should be published on our website so taxpayers  can see this. I also have the statements from the   state of Kansas on the CI revenue and it does not  equal a million dollars a year in this area. So   we have a difference right now between revenue  and debt in the Ball Stadium area. In fact, I   created an Excel worksheet so I could track these  monthly invoices we get from the state of Kansas.   This should also be done by economic development  staff and posted on our website. So you can see   the difference between revenue and debt when we  have these discussions on the ball stadium. The   debt on the C is also going to increase each year,  which means we've really got to get that C tax   going in that area. So as been mentioned before,  the clock has started ticking. Everything we can   do to continue with this development short of  giving more incentives, I support. In fact,   I'm not here to say no to this extension. I'm here  to support it because we are stuck and we've got   to meet this debt schedule. That's just CD debt  that we're not currently meeting. Now, we can   talk about starbond debt. And you're absolutely  correct, Mayor Woo, in that the bond agreement,   which I have right here, is very clear that  if we cannot make the debt payments based   upon sales tax revenue, it will come out of our  general fund. And this is nowhere published in   our financial statements so that taxpayers could  see this is like a hidden debt obligation that's   getting ready to hit us really hard if we don't  start ramping up revenue. I also have the debt   schedule for phase one. I don't care what you call  it. It's phase one and it ends in 2027. And that's   been providing us with about two thou $2,500,000  a year in revenue that will be gone. $2,500,000,   this is right off of the schedule, will be gone.  And that means that any other development in phase   two, which is the ball stadium, has to be in place  generating revenue to keep up with the $42 million   debt plus the $20 million interest, which is $62  million that must be paid off on these bonds. So, I'll just end by saying this. The debt payment  in 2025, though we did make a principal payment,   was roughly $3.9 million. But the revenue, which  is depending on phase one, just about makes that   payment, but they're going to increase. The  principal is going to kick in on the starbone   debt. They're going to get higher payments,  and yet we're losing two and a half million   in revenue to meet it. So, your questions are so  valid. I appreciate hearing the council members   ask these questions. I really do. It gives  me hope that you all know where we're at,   what we need to do. I am not up here to say  do not support the extension because with   the clawback and the 30 days, oh my gosh,  I don't know how we'd find a developer to   take over this mess. I believe EPC has  the best of our intentions in mind. So,   I would say approve the extension. Thank you.  Thank you, Celeste. Council member Glascott. Thank you. We'll continue with public comment. I  see none. I'll bring it back to the bench. Council   member Hoheisel. Thank you, Mayor. Um something  else I think we should consider. We do have   um I don't know, maybe around 27 28 million still  in the permanent reserve. Maybe look at tapping   into that to float that as well. Um, if we expect  that, we will make that money back on the back   end. I think that just should be another option.  That way, we're not taking more money from the   general fund and having to cut services anymore.  So, just putting it out there, that might be a   possible option as well. Um, something that we  have to discuss as this becomes clear as we move   along. Thank you, Council Member, sorry, Vice  Mayor Johnston. Thank you, Mayor. I I've done   a lot of research on this and Celeste, thank you.  Got the same numbers, so that's a good thing. Um,   you know, I did I had a lot of angst for this for  this project. Um, however, when I did my research,   one thing was common and that was everyone had  good things to say about EPC. So, that that's   encouraging that everybody does. So I know they  want to keep that reputation going forward and so   I think they will really value this project. So  I I will be supporting this project and uh just   want to see some steel up this summer. I will  just add a quick comment. I had mentioned that   um we had some timelines those have been added to  the equity bank page on the city's website. Um I   also wanted to address a comment u made by uh our  public comment speaker and that is um information   regarding debt payment. I know that Mark just  arrived. Uh so I wanted to make sure if this   information is already available on the website,  where is it? If it's not, can that be made   available so people understand that this is not  numbers that we're making up. This is literally   debt that could be on the backs of individuals  here in our community. So either economic   development or Mark, can either one of you  address where on the website this will be located. Good afternoon, Mayor Mark Manning with the  Department of Finance. Well, uh, of course,   every time we issue debt, all of our, uh, debt  service is public information is and is provided   on a variety of websites. Uh, however, sometimes  some of our debt is embedded in multiple series.   So sometimes the series may not be broken out  specifically by SID and by TIFF. But having   said that we certainly can do that without any  problem at all. We have done it in the past.   We've done it in response to chorus. So it's  absolutely no problem at all to do. So yes,   we can do that. For um point of transparency if  that could be available that would be very helpful   again for community to understand how this is um  sure getting us to this point of talking about   debt. Thank you. I see no further comments. Um  I will just add thank you again Austin and to   the team. Um what I heard from you is a commitment  that you have not changed the quality of what you   have promised this community. Um, I know that we  have seen renderings of what will happen at that   corner and we want it to be successful because we  want to again not only provide an asset to this   community but also help us pay for the debt  for this asset that was created years ago.   With that, I know that this community um  again wanted to get some answers and we   wanted to make sure that those answers were  provided in public comment. So, I will move   that the city council approve the amendments  and authorize all necessary signatures. Second.   Motion and a second. Any further discussion? I  see none. Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion passes 70. Let's  get her down. Madame clerk,   please call the next item. Municipal  court competency evaluation services. Good afternoon, Mayor Council. Nathan  Emory, court administrator for the record. The background on this is uh that the city  of Witchaw municipal court does competency   evaluations to determine whether individuals  are competent to stand trial. Our municipal   court rule 25 uh provides the procedures and  we use qualified mental health professionals   uh to make those determinations. On July,  uh we put out an RFP to identify or to uh   request proposals for qualified mental health  professionals uh to provide those services to the   court under contract. We uh had two respondents  and those respondents were uh individuals who were   previously and are currently providing those  services uh to the court. Jodie Patterson and   Shelby Hendrickson independent clinicians with  the therapy center. Uh they were selected be   both of them were selected for contracts to offer  flexibility and because of their experience having   already completed over a 100red uh competency  valuations for the court understanding of court   rules and procedures and competitive pricing ra  relative to state reimbursement rights rates.   The contract is for $500 per evaluation.  Won't exceed $100,000 and the term is for   one year with the option to renew. Uh it's been  reviewed as to form by the law department and   it is recommended that the city council approve  the contract authorize the necessary signatures   and approve any necessary budget adjustments.  And I'll stand for any questions. Thank you,   Nathan. Council member Glascott. Thank you,  Nathan. Two quick questions that just stood   out to me. It says two responses were received  and then we're awarding two responses. Um,   which just seems a little unusual. So, how many  people uh was this sent to to maybe apply? Um,   and maybe how many people do this work in  Witchita are qualified to do this work? Yeah,   I'll tell you this work is kind of niche because  typically uh it's done in the district court and   so comare gets state reimbursements. Most of the  people in this space work for the defense bar,   not for uh cities. And so uh previous to this,  we worked very hard to find clinicians who were   willing to work for the city and found these two  individuals. So we communicated uh prior to even   the RFP, prior to having any clinicians uh to to  try to find uh health care professionals who'd   be willing to do this. I got several responses  from people saying not a chance. So, it's very   niche. Yes. And so, these two individuals have  been doing it. Uh we put it out um through the   normal uh city channels. Uh and these were the  folks who who wanted to do it. Um I think that   we would have potentially space to have more folks  contracted with if if we so found them and there   would be no problem with that. Uh but these are  the folks who identified themselves as wanting   to do this work for the city. Okay. Thank you.  This is maybe not exactly gerine to this but you   said there's 100 evaluations and they're ruling  competency. How many people were ruled um not   competent? So I uh I can tell you that this year  alone we've had 79 evaluations. Uh presently we   have seven evaluations. Out of those 79 pending,  37 of those individuals were found incompetent,   23 of those individuals were found competent,  and two uh refused with 10 kind of indeterminate. How does that compare to 2024? When we first  started the program, we had a much higher rate   of findings of incompetency. Uh what that kind of  shows me is that uh you know, it's not something   we had done before. And so the the the least  capable people were the folks who were getting   reviewed, right? So there was a very high level of  incompetency. I think as the program has gone on,   uh, the judges are looking and saying, "Hey, you  know, I've got a question." And so there's more   borderline cases. And so we're seeing a lot more  cases where the evaluators come back and say, "No,   I I think this person has the capability uh rather  than a vast majority at coming back incompetent."   So it represents kind of a uh a a growth and  maturation of the program of the cases that are   uh coming before you for competency. Uh can you  share what the majority of these infractions are?   I mean so it's a it's a wide variety. Uh it could  be environmental, it could be domestic violence.   Um so it really is across the board. A lot of the  individuals are identified by counsel. And so, uh,   if they have counsel and and counsel is struggling  to communicate, struggling to be able to artic   have the individual articulate their defense  to them, uh, that's when they would identify   to the judge, hey, I think this person may be  struggling with competency. I'd request that you,   uh, request a evaluation. So, it could be in any  one of our courtrooms. It could be in any one of   our case types. What happens after an incompetency  has been identified? So what what uh will happen   typically is the case will be dismissed. Uh then  the city attorney's office refers that case to   the district attorney's office to see if they want  to take it up and that's where they can uh access   restoration services. I can tell you it doesn't  get picked up very often but you know that is the   opportunity. We don't have restoration services on  our side. Uh so we uh do if someone got a new case   uh we do do re-evaluations I think uh after  90 days. So if someone uh was was evaluated u   the judges will generally deem them uh still  incompetent if if that evaluation is within   90 days and they haven't received restoration  services through the county or or any identifiable   restoration services. If it's uh older than 90  days then they would probably refer that person   for uh an additional evaluation. Sorry I'm asking  all these questions, but uh this has brought on I   guess another layer of uh inquiry having had the  conversations about housing earlier this morning   and you mentioned that some of these cases are  environmental court which we were talking about   that this morning and also dismissal of some of  these cases. So in situations where an individual   has been deemed incompetent then it is the case  will be dismissed. Um, and the DA's office more   than likely more often than not does not take  on that case. Is that That's correct. So then   what happens in those situations? I think that  can can you explain maybe a real case scenario   um more specific to environmental court though.  So I I really don't have personal experience   observing an individual case in that environment.  So I I I don't think I could I would ask the city   manager u for this specific topic if that I don't  know if that can be part of the discussion when   the task force comes around because we this does  talk about dismissal of cases and if if there's a   case where a home is um or an individual is deemed  not competent and the case gets dismissed but yet   the remediation's not available. I think that's  part of the frustration that some have mentioned   uh regarding housing. So can that also be part of  that conversation? Yeah, that may be better or uh   discussed by our staff in terms of what resources  we have available? I'm not sure I want to bog this   committee down with that or task force down with  that, but yes, we'll be a Yep. Yep. Thank you.   Yeah, I I would say that I think that's likely a  very low frequency occurrence off of that docket,   but that's um once again that's what I believe.  It's not based on numbers. Thanks, Nathan. I see   no further questions for you. We will open it up  for public comment. I see no one from the public   who would like to speak. I will bring it back to  the bench and I will go ahead and move that the   city council approve the contract, authorize the  necessary signatures and approve any necessary   budget adjustments. Second motion and a second.  Any further discussion? I see none. Madame clerk,   can you please open the role? Motion passes.  70. Madame clerk, please call the next item.   Amendments of sections 602010 60202 602030 of  the code of the city of Witchaw pertaining to   the animal services advisory board. Good evening  mayor, city council, Jan German with the law   department. I am here to tell you about uh a  pretty minor amendment to title 6.02. That's   the animal service advisory board. Um, Shenita,  how do I move this along? Oh, I can just use this.   Okay. Um, just to remind you, the animal advisory  board was created in 2015 um to allow citizens   more input into what's happening at our Witchah  animal shelter. The board currently consists of   seven at large members appointed by the city  council and mayor um with the goal of one of   those members being um from a local rescue group.  In addition to the seven, um, a few years ago,   uh, under a different mayor, uh, there was an  addition of an eighth member being appointed by   the mayor, and that person had to be a vet. That  was a requirement, not a goal. Uh, at this point,   an eight member board isn't always a problem, but  it can be a problem. Um, because you could have   a tie. Although our our uh chair on that board  doesn't vote, but we'd like to make this like a   regular board where there's seven members and the  chair gets to vote along with everybody else. Um   the ordinance also changes just some housekeeping.  We're trying to change the name from uh the animal   control advisory board and to the animal services  advisory board because most of title six has   tried to change the wording to animal services  instead of animal control. A small thing. So,   um, we are asking in this ordinance amendment,  uh, that we, um, I will tell you that the board,   this did go to the animal service advisory  board. They voted on it. They asked for a   couple changes which were made. Um, originally  when we wrote it, it was not going to have a   goal at all of a rescue or a goal of a vet, but  they felt real strong that they wanted that to   remain a goal. It is still at the discretion of  each member of council to appoint their person.   Um hopefully one of you will try to put a rescue  on there and one of you will try to put a vet,   but it'd be at your discretion. Um so they  approved it and at this point we would ask uh you   to approve it as well and authorize the necessary  signatures. I stand open for questions. Thank   you Jan. Questions for staff? I see none. Thank  you. We will now open it up for public comment. George Theo Harris 2115 South Chiakqua. I want to address this ordinance change. I  have been appalled to think that we went to   eight way back in 2016, nine years ago. you  you don't put even numbers on any board for   the fear that there would be a tie. But of  course, maybe you really didn't care because   we just we're an advisory board. And although I  would say on this animal and bicycle board that   I was on previously that I have been able for  you to listen to us, but the old saying goes,   just because it's not happening when you  expect it to doesn't mean it will never   happen. But that being said, it sickens me that  everything is like slow motion in this city.   I don't have to have everything now, but within  reason. Like the bike path on East Mount Vernon   from Woodlon to the river was supposed to be  done in November 2019 before CO. Then they blame   CO why we didn't get it done till 2026, 6 and 1/2  years later. And it's still not done. Just wrong. I put this on because I appreciate. So, I am  so thankful that this mayor is seeing that   the ordinance should have never been changed  to eight and now we're changing it back to   where it should be at seven. So, thank you,  Mayor Woo. so much of being transparent as I   take this mask off to represent that you're  being transparent and thank you again. Now,   mind you, nobody on this city council was there  in 2016 when this backroom deal was hatched,   but now I can barely get a front door meeting with  the mayor. So, I know there aren't any backroom   deals being done with Mayor Woo. Thank you for  your transparency. Again, it has taken years to   get the city to work on the dog licensing process  problem. And finally, you listened. The other six   cities are size licensed cats, not just dogs.  Please listen to us, or at least me, as I am not   as dumb as I look. My wife agrees. Thanks, Doge.  Department of George Enlightenment. Thank you. Thanks, George. Any other individuals  who would like to speak on this item?   I see none. I'm bringing it  back to the bench. With that,   I move that the city council adopt the ordinance  and authorize all necessary signatures. Second.   Motion and a second. Any further discussion? I  see none. Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion passes. 70. Madame clerk,  please call the next item.   Funding for converting central  library to event venue. [Applause] Good evening, Mayor Council Lindsay Banaka  with the city manager's office. A little bit   of background on this project, which is just  to initiate funding for the uh remodel or the   uh converting of the the library property. Uh the  former central library building was built in 1966.   It's primarily composed of cast concrete, glass,  steel, and is representative of brutalistic   um style architecture and design. The initial  design, structure, and most of the systems have   not changed throughout the building's 59-year  history with only minor interior renovations   over the years. In 2020, the building was placed  on the National Register of Historic Places. The   building offers a unique opportunity to address  Witchaw's growing demand for event space. Uh the   project that we're initiating tonight uh is  to repurpose the building's main floor only   into flexible revenue generating venue  opportunities for weddings, banquetss,   meetings, and more activities. Uh the initiative  will activate the currently vacant city asset,   enhance the Century 2 campus, and support  the city's cultural and economic v vitality.   And a little bit of analysis. The budget and scope  of work assumptions for this project were made   utilizing the evaluation uh conducted by ASM, our  property manager of Century 2. Um and as well as   the building assessment information generated  by GLMV, now Tesser uh that they did for the   city back in 2019. The facility itself is about  90,000 square feet with four levels uh including   a mezzanine. For the sake and of scope of this  project, we're only uh considering the first floor   uh of the property. Um this the the improvements  will account for accessibility issues or concerns,   life safety systems, heating, ventilation  and cooling and electrical systems and an   underinsulated building envelope. It'll  address asbestous lead paint abatement   and interior finishes. Again, we're really just  looking at the first floor only. This is a very   loosely estimated timeline because we really  don't know until we start getting in there uh   because the last assessment was done uh six years  ago. Upon approval of the project budget tonight,   uh we'll open a request for proposals uh to begin  concept development, a selection of an architect   and design services will return to city council.  Uh depending on how quick we can get that RFP and   selection process turned around, we anticipate  coming back in January of next year. Uh design of   the improvements are anticipated to be completed  uh throughout next year with construction being   completed possibly in third quarter of 2027.  That's our best estimate right now uh in kicking   off the project um if we're able to do so after  tonight's meeting. For financial considerations,   the adopted CIP includes $2 million for this  project which is funded out the TGT or the   transient guest tax fund. The law department  has reviewed the bonding resolution as to form   and staff recommend uh that council approve the  project and budget adopt the bonding resolution   and authorize necessary signatures. And with  that, I'm able to answer questions and I'm hoping   my public works colleagues are still in the room.  if you have any questions for them as well. Thank   you, Lindsay. Council member Glasco. Thank you,  Mayor Lindsay. Great project. I'm excited to save   this historic building and I think this is the  type of project that can save the building. So,   thank you for your work on this. I know this is  a long time coming for everybody on the bench   and I think the community as well. And I think  this is really the perfect plan for it. Just one   quick question and I know you have an answer  for it. When I toured a couple months ago,   um it's probably this all blends together. It was  probably a year ago. Um, obviously there was water   damage from the roof. The roof's been replaced  now. Is the water damage fixed on the third floor?   That's not going to have negative effects on the  first floor because we are just doing renovations   on the first floor. Um, I can confirm that the  the roof has been done as you you said. Um,   in terms of renovations to the third floor or um  water damage, uh, there's likely still appearance   of damage, but there's no further damage uh  of water uh, intrusion coming in. It's just   not going to affect any of the involvement or  action on the first floor. Um, not not that   I'm aware of. I'll ask Gary to confirm that  as I am not the building expert. Awesome. Mayor, council members, Gary Jansen, public works  and utilities. can't give you a firm answer on   that specific. But what I will tell you as we move  forward with the project, assuming your approval   this evening, those are one of the items we would  take a look at because even though the focus is on   the first floor, we can't have anything above that  that's going to impact what will happen on the   first floor. So, we'll confirm that the roof has  been replaced, took care of those issues there,   we don't want anything else finding its way to  the first floor. So, we'll make that part of the   initial analysis going forward. Thank you. Does  that be state-of-the-art? Just want to make sure   it doesn't affect the rest of the project. So,  correct. Thank you, Council Member Ballard. Thank   you, Mayor. Just kind of piggybacking on that.  We've heard a lot about mold today, so I just   want to make sure that any water damage doesn't  didn't create any problems such as mold. Yeah,   I think one of our uh most recent analysis took  a look at that and that'll certainly be part of   what we'll do going forward. That's a pretty quick  analysis and be able to take a look and make sure   there's no impact as we reactivate this building  for the public. We want to make sure that that   is mitigated. Lindsay, a couple questions for  you. Um, the central library has sat basically   dormant. I know that there are nonprofits that  have utilized this space. Um, can you give us   just a little bit of background in terms of how  long it's been vacant um, officially and then   I'll have a follow-up question. Sure. Um to the  best of my recollection uh it's been vacant since   the advanced learning library opened in 2018 2019  17 um between 2017 and 2019 it uh as soon as the   advanced learning library came on on online that  this library was vacated. It has as you mentioned   um been utilized by several nonprofits um and  Cedric County obviously for the vaccine clinic   but throughout the years um there's been pop-up  events have happened. Salvation Army is actually   um in the space right now getting ready for  their operation holiday um work. Um you have had   a special event there. So it has been utilized  but not in a long-term capacity because of the   significant building needs uh that the facility  has. We did issue a round of RFPs or not RF,   I think we did an RFI as well um to to work with  the local nonprofit community to see what kind of   activation for the space uh could possibly exist.  Uh we did have several respondents throughout   those various RFPs, RFI, RFQ's. Um but we didn't  have any viable applicants who were able to put in   the capital necessary to make the renovations  needed to make it a habitable space. Does   that answer your question? Okay, it does. Thank  you, Lindsay. This question now is for the city   manager. Um, obviously this has sat vacant for  a good portion of almost eight years since 2018,   June. So, seven years. Um, I wanted to know since  again many of us were not on this council at that   time, what was the plan for that building? And  again, I say this from the bench often because   I know that we have a lot of assets that this  community has invested in and it's important   to maintain assets that we have invested in. That  includes sidewalks, that includes things that are   not uh the flashy topics, but it's important to  maintain what we have. So can can you tell me give   me context of uh what was the conversation about  what was supposed to happen with this building?   Mayor the discussion at the time was that it there  was a feel that it would have some uh relation to   a relationship with the uh Bob Brown and Century 2  buildings and that it would play an important role   in the redevelopment. But at that time um I think  we did have a redevelopment plan. didn't really   uh but I I think it was somewhat dated. There  was discussion about updating the plan and then   determining how that could be used for at similar  to what we're talking about now is a possible   uh venue space or ballroom space. Um but there  was nothing firm at that time. It was to be   determined in the future. And city manager,  one more question regarding that timeline. if   it was 2018. Um, this was about the same time  as the conversation regarding baseball. Uh,   can you address why baseball went forward but  nothing on the east side of the bank? Why that   took precedence over the other when we have  been talking about a lot about the asset you   just mentioned Bob Brown that was mentioned last  week also. Century 2 has been mentioned multiple   times and then this facility right here. I guess  I want to help this community understand um that   how decisions are made um when it comes to uh  focusing our efforts. Sure. I don't think it was   ever considered an eitheror type of uh discussion.  I may get my dates off a little bit, but I think   this is around the time of the discussion about  the riverfront master plan as well. And I believe   that the discussion was what would you do to uh to  generate um activity on the east bank and that was   um I I'm pretty sure that was the time frame  that uh uh that discussion started. So they   weren't turning their back on the east side. I  think that there was an approach that would have   um that was trying to provide a redevelopment  plan for that area. Thank you, Council Member   Johnson. Thanks, Mayor. Just adding to that, um  2018 was a conversation. I know Mayor Longwell   had a committee on Century 2 that was looking at  a potential reuse recommendation came to council   at a workshop. I forget which date that was that  led into 2019's conversation of the riverfront   development master plan. Um all of that community  engagement somewhere around 60 80 meetings in the   community. um recommendations were coming back. So  after kind of no decision was made on Century 2,   it was just kind of a placeholder until the  riverfront development master plan came through   which was going to have a plan to either save  the structures or demolish or reuse in some way,   shape or form and then COVID hit. So it  wasn't that it wasn't being considered. We   were looking at both East and West Bank.  But then the riverfront plan, of course,   everybody remembers what happened with that. Um,  but that it was going to be a part of that and   that was kind of where it ended up and then after  that we were trying to figure out how to use the   building since we kind of stopped moving forward  with that plan and leads up to today. Thank you   and thank you Lindsay for addressing that there  have been multiple requests for ideas or proposals   um regarding uh reusing or reactivating this  space. However, as you mentioned, um none of   them were viable because it required capital. Um  and so this in particular is an opportunity to not   just reuse the space, but more specifically just  the first floor for now so that it can generate   revenue to then continue to make improvements  into this building. So again, it's just the first   floor. Um and this has not gone out to request for  proposals. that this gets approved, it will then   go out for a request for proposals uh for anyone  in the community that thinks that they can design   uh this first floor. But in that scope, it will  also look into some of the water uh concerns uh as   I'm hearing correctly regarding this uh proposal  as well. So I am very appreciative that within   the last 7 months and you addressed that I had an  event there that would have been this state of the   city address that I had on March 16th and in that  conversation I simply asked what can we do with   this building. I gave an idea that did not come to  fruition but it got the conversation started but   it also refocused the effort and that is what  I hope um we can glean from this when we have   engagement from this community just like we did  this morning and afternoon this community comes   up with really great ideas uh win-win solutions  for all and I think that this is an important   um building and I'm very appreciative of  the individuals like Salvation Army that are   uh going utilize it for um the holiday g giveaway  time uh this year. Uh but moving forward,   this will become a space that can have revenue  generating that can then go back to renovating   and keeping this building um into its civic use  again. So, thank you uh to the entire staff for   coming up with ideas, entertaining um some of  these um requests for proposals and ideas from   the community, but we didn't want the community  to think that they were not being heard. It was   just capital dollars that would have renovated the  entire building we simply don't have. But for the   first floor that can then generate revenue to then  continue to make improvements is the most viable   solution. And so thank you again to staff. With  that, we'll open it up for public comment. I see   none. I'll bring it back to the bench. I will move  that the city council approve the project budget,   adopt the bonding resolution, and authorize  the necessary signatures. Second. Motion and   a second. Any further discussion? I see  none. Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion passes. 70. Madame clerk,   please call the next item. Agreements for 29th  and Grove Environmental Remediation Project. Uh good evening, mayor and council members, Gary  Jansen, public works and utilities. Uh I'm happy   to be here tonight to talk about multiple elements  of an effort to provide groundwater remediation   in the area of 29th and Grove. I've got uh  representatives here with me from Union Pacific as   well as their engineering consultant, Arcadus. and  I'm going to introduce one of them here shortly to   help walk through some of the critical components  of this project. Um what we're looking at tonight   and asking for your approval on includes use  uh use of public rideway and public storm   water management system agreements. These are in  place to allow for the remediation system to be   constructed and also to help with cost recovery  on our end for maintaining our systems and staff   time involved with that. Uh it also includes  lease agreements for use of public property   in three locations which will be talked about  more within the uh presentation here shortly.   Um and then we'll wrap all that together here at  the end and talk about what the timing of this   looks like. Uh some quick background uh location  is generally near 29th and Grove in northeast   Witchaw. Just some history. There was a chemical  spill discovered in the 1990s. Original owner was   Missouri Pacific Railroad. the current owner being  the Union Pacific since 1982. Uh the TCE is the   primary contaminant with other U VOCC's at lower  concentrations is what the focus of this effort is   going to be with this remediation. The groundwater  plume is generally bounded by Minnesota Grove,   Murdoch Streets, and Union Pacific Railroad to the  north. And and you'll see more of this as we go   through here. Uh I'm actually going to introduce  William Simmel with Arcadus. He's going to walk   you through uh really the what's happening with  this project, where it's happening at, how the   remediation systems going to work, what's going  to be happening within the public right away,   talk about some of the timing. I'll come  back then and talk about the agreements,   financial considerations, all those things,  and talk about the timing of the project. So   William is the principal environmental  engineer with Arcadus and the engineer   of record for this project. I'm gonna let him  take you through the next handful of slides. Thanks, Gary. Hi, everyone. My name is William  Suml with Arcadus. Um, I'll first talk a little   bit about the remedy that we're proposing to  continue at the site and then I'll talk about   implementation of the remedy and how it pertains  to the agreements that Gary talked about at the   beginning. Um, so there's been extensive soil  soil vapor and groundwater uh tests conducted   at the site since 2000 under the supervision of  KDHE. Um, we've also done a lot of remediation   at the project. There's a hydraulic containment  system located on Murdoch Avenue that's been in   operation since 2009. There's also been insitu bio  remediation in the source area since 2018. Moving   forward with KDH's approval, um, we are going to  add three new groundwater treatment systems. Two   of them, we call them transexs BC and DE, and they  are dynamic groundwater recirculation systems. We   essentially take ground water out of the ground.  We move it to a centralized treatment system. We   treat it. A majority of that water gets reinjected  via injection wells and then the remaining water   will get um put into the storm water sewer system.  The third system is an expansion of the existing   system on Murdoch Avenue. We call it transct F.  Um we will be adding two extraction wells as part   of that system. Um unlike the first two systems,  there's no reinction component. So all the treated   water will be discharged into the stormwater  sewer system. When we implement this project,   we're going to have three different treatment  system buildings. Um, similar to the photo at   the top right, a little metal building. Um,  the diagram at the bottom right of the slide   is a schematic of all the process equipment that  will be inside of these buildings. We'll have a   fence around the system and then we'll have um a  conveyance line going from our extraction wells   to our injection wells. And this will house water  conveyance lines, power and communication lines. If I use my mouse, can you guys see me move  my mouse around? Okay, so this is the site   as Gary showed on the previous slide. So we  have our three systems. We have transsect BC,   which is the top one, transsect DE, which  is the middle one, and then transsect F,   which is the expansion of the existing hydraulic  containment system on Murdoch Avenue. So this is   um it's flipped a little bit. So north is pointing  to the right. So this is the transect BC system.   So you can see 21st here in um Opportunity Drive.  I'll break down kind of our features and how it   pertains to the agreements that Gary discussed.  So, right here on Opportunity Drive, we have the   um location of our treatment system building. This  will be covered under the lease agreement. All the   colored um lines that you see going throughout the  page are our conveyance lines in the rightway. And   this will be um the water conveyance lines, the  power and the communication lines. This will be   handled under the right-of-way agreement. Um I  will note that there are two instances for this   transct. Um there's a little strip mall here just  south of 21st Street and then the Boys and Girls   Club on the north side of Opportunity Drive. We  have some infrastructure there um that we will be   installing but it's not it's privately owned. So  Union Pacific will have a separate agreement with   those two entities to get those work completed.  And then the third component of this is the storm   water discharge. So the treated water um will go  into the storm water sewer connection existing   manhole that's located just north of the system  on Opportunity Drive. For transect DE, it's a   lot of the same. So, the white box you can see  here, just north of 13th uh street and by highway   135 is the location of our proposed treatment  system building. Again, the colored lines are   our conveyance um lines that we'll be installing.  And then the storm water discharge location is um   just to the west or east, sorry, of our treatment  system location on 13th Street. And then finally,   we have transct F, which is located on Reddock  Avenue. This is an expansion of the existing   hydraulic containment system that we have. We'll  be installing two extraction wells um towards the   east. Um our current system actually is on the  north side of Murdoch, but we had a meeting with   the board of park commissioners in April um to  relocate that system south of Murdoch on this   parcel right here, which is actually owned by the  border of park commissioners, and they approved   this sighting in that meeting. Um and then  similarly, we have our storm water discharge,   which would be on the north side of Murdoch,  just north of the treatment system building. So I think if there's any  questions or Gary back to you maybe. Thank you, Williams. So I mentioned earlier  the two agreements that are in place that we're   requesting approval of uh this evening. From a  financial considerations perspective, there's no   direct cost responsibility for the city. However,  um, as with any other use of public rideway,   uh, per code, there are fees associated  with that. Uh, you heard William talk about   the discharge of the the treated groundwater  through our storm water system. Um, there's,   uh, fees associated with that for  utilizing some of the capacity. Uh,   also, if we look at the system could be in place  for 10 to 15 years, that will have an impact on   our storm water system over time. So we have  uh cleaning and repair fees built into these   agreements. So I think we're in a good place with  our overall cost recovery over the course of time.   So the private use of public storm water  management system agreement is to govern   the safe discharge of treated groundwater to the  public storm sewer, facilitate the lease of public   property involved or remediation efforts which  William talked about the three locations including   the one that was approved by the park board and  and ensure recovery of all public costs involved   with administration oversight of the agreement  because we'll have staffing costs um throughout   the period of time monitoring the discharge to  the system uh including the amounts The rideway   use agreement that I mentioned is to authorize the  use of public rightway for installation, operation   and maintenance of remediation infrastructure  involved in those same efforts and ensure require in place to mitigate uh increased flood risk.  So as the system is operating and taking up   some capacity within our system, we want to be  very cognizant of what happens uh when we have   if we have any large rain events. So we we've  got uh that in place that will be activated when   needed if the system has to shut down and that's  what'll happen for the period of time it takes uh   to evacuate storm water not cause any additional  issues. Um the law department has reviewed and   approved the agreements asked to form. Uh the  agreements align with existing city code and   regulatory requirements. William mentioned  this. KDH will oversee the remediation plan   and compliance construction assuming your approval  this evening. Construction and remediation systems   are projected to begin in the third quarter of  next year. Um I mentioned the I noticed that I   didn't have a financial considerations part on  this par PowerPoint, but I kind of talked about   all of that. there's no uh upfront direct costs.  We do feel good about the agreements that in place   are for cost recovery over this full period of 10  to 15 years. This has been a considerable effort   uh across multiple departments to get to this  point. So, I'm really happy to be here tonight   to know that we're moving forward. We've worked  very closely with Council Member Johnson for some   time now. Uh there's been multiple divisions  in public works and utilities involved. our   uh multiple um parts of the city manager's office  including the office of project management uh and   our real estate experts have been in this uh city  attorney's office has been involved. So it's been   a real uh collaborative effort to get to this  point. So we're ready to move forward with that.   Staff recommends city council approve the private  use of public storm water management system and   rideway use agreements, lease agreements, and  authorize the necessary signatures. And we   would be happy to stand for any questions. Thank  you, Council Member Johnson. Thanks, Mayor. Um,   I can't say thank you enough to you, Gary, and  the team and Denise and legal and city manager's   office, UP, and just working through all of this.  Arcadus. Um I am glad that we are here. I wish   third quarter of 2026 was fourth quarter of 2025.  But um the only question I had I saw on that map,   are we moving that facility from the north side  of Murdoch and Murdoch Park to the south side   of Murdoch? Is that what I understood? Correct.  Okay. So that whole building will be taken down   and that'll go back to just basically parkland.  That's correct. It's actually on um I think DOT   K DOT land. Okay. But yes, it'll be it'll be  decommissioned after we build the other one   across the street. Okay. Thank you, Council  Member Ho Heisel. Thank you, Mayor. Uh yeah,   just a couple quick questions. One, um is there  any federal funding as part of this source? I   know with the water center at Herman Hill Park,  for example, there was. But just kind of curious   to make sure that we can count on the funding a  little over the difference here is this cost is   all the responsibility of Union Pacific. Okay.  And there are no cost obligations for the city   of Witchto. We chose to with the water center and  the remediation of the groundwater contamination.   That was an agreement we had with the EPA that  we chose to take on that treatment ourselves.   We're going to have oversight uh and monitoring  of a private system uh that the Union Pacific   will have responsibility for through KDHE. Okay.  A second question. Uh these buildings are just   going to be strictly for the infrastructure for  the project. Correct. Okay. Uh the last one real   quick. Um you indicated 10 to 15 years. Is that  kind of the timeline we can think about as far as   when the water source will be safe again? Yeah, I  think based on the what I've what I've heard from   from Arcadus in particular on the the monitoring  now um the sampling the test results we've seen   over the course of time. It makes sense with that  projection. So 10 to 15 years is what everybody's   thinking at this point. Okay. Thank you. I see  no further questions for staff or Arcadus. We   will now open it up for public comment. I  see no one from the public. We'll bring it   back to the bench. Council member Johnson.  Thank you, Mayor. Um before I make a motion,   I I just want to say I'm I'm really glad  to be here today. Uh, anybody who's been   following this knows that one of the key things  I wanted to get done before I left this seat was   to make sure that these remediation devices got  into the ground. We know it's at least a decade   to clean that groundwater and that clock doesn't  start until these devices are in the ground. So,   I'm I'm excited today that we are at that step  at least on our end to get hurdles cleared and   agreements done to move forward with that. And I  am looking forward to third quarter of next year   for those devices to get in the ground. One of the  most important things is getting the groundwater   cleaned up and that way the community can feel  safe again with the concerns that they have and   and knowing what's there. And this is just one  piece of every other effort. But today, this to   me is the most important piece and that's making  sure that we can get those devices in the ground.   So with that, I would move that the city council  approve the private use of public storm water   management system and rightaway use agreements  and authorize the necessary signatures. Second.   Motion and a second. Any further discussion? I  see none. Madame clerk, please open the role. Motion passes 70. Madame  clerk, can you please call   the last item 2026 cultural funding  operational grant recommendations? So sorryize second to last. Happy to be your  closer of new business today though. Uh Lindsay   Banaka with the city manager's office here  for one of my favorite presentations to give   each year which is the um recommendations of the  cultural funding committee for grant allocations   for fiscal year 2026. A little bit of background  is uh the city's strategic plan was adopted last   year uh in relationship to cultural arts. Um as  a reminder, our mission is to ensure everyone has   equitable access to cultural arts opportunities  by activating and strengthen activating uh the   creative potential of our community. Our vision  is that Witchaw is recognized as a community   where artistic expression is an integral part of  the city's success, where arts thrive, and where   cultural heritage is preserved and celebrated.  Within the strategic plan, there were two key   areas that impacted uh tonight's action. Uh one  was to evaluate the cultural institution program   to and assess it for accountability and community  impact. And then the the latter of which was to   revamp the allocation structure of the cultural  funding program to support growth, creativity,   and accountability. Uh so the recommendations  that you're going to hear tonight are a long time   coming. Uh the plan was adopted in 2024, but we  spent several years in development of that plan,   working with community partners, working  with longtime recipients of the program   uh and prospective recipients of the program who  couldn't quite figure out how to navigate it. Uh   so several years in the making to make the changes  uh for next fiscal year's grant allocations. Um,   and the best person to describe those changes  is Jesse Koser, our cultural arts administrator   who oversees a cultural funding program.  So, with that, I'll pass it over to him. Thank you, city council. Jesse Kosa, cultural  arts administrator with the Division of Arts and   Cultural Services. Um, to continue the background,  uh, I wanted to walk you through the changes for   this year. Uh the city has funded arts and  cultural organizations here in Witchah for   a very long time. Uh about 20 years ago, an arts  task force recommended the city of Witchah start   a competitive grant program and that put into  motion what we now now call our operational grant   opportunity. Uh through these grant opportunities,  the cultural funding program provides support to   local nonprofit arts and cultural organizations  and to our local individual artists, all of whom,   I will quickly remind you, uh are small  businesses. These grant opportunities are   overseen by the volunteer cultural funding  committee. There are 11 committee members,   seven of them appointed by the mayor and city  council and uh the remaining four appointed by   the arts council. The arts council also chooses  the chair of the committee. The committee reads   every application for each of our opportunities  and after dozens of hours uh comes comes up with   these recommendations that we're presenting to  you today. Part of that work is making sure the   application continues to be in line with our  cultural plan. Uh our grant program is offered   every year and historically applications are new  and competitive every year. Uh I want to point out   very quickly that this most recent cycle had seven  people reviewing applications instead of 11 due   to some uh vacancies on the board and an excused  absence. Uh so we're currently looking for three   new members for the committee and applications  for that are online. Another quick note, there are   many factors that go into these recommendations  and that's why they historically uh tend to shift   from year to year. The funding pool changes as  the mill levy value changes though that can be   consistent. Uh but we have seen an increase in the  number of applications. Uh historically we've seen   20 a year. Last year it was 39. This year it was  34 applications. So the number of applications   continues to rise. The slices of pie shrink  every time we get new applications. Right? Uh   the amounts those organizations qualify for also  change from year to year for various reasons.   And we also have turnover on the committee.  So the scoring and that affects the awards   uh tends to lead to adjustments in the awards.  So back in 2013, the city started offering three   types of grants. Operational grants, artist access  grants, and developing arts grants. Operational   grants were divided into three categories, small,  medium, and large. And those categories were based   on budget size. And like most things, it worked  well uh for its time, but it needs some adjustment   to meet the moment today. uh we started looking  at the program in earnest about a year after I   started uh making some of the changes uh meaning  that some of the changes you're seeing today have   been discussed for well over two years. Um and if  I can very quickly soon after I started uh Lindsay   gave me a sheet that listed uh major initiatives  for the division of arts and cultural services.   There were 30 major initiatives. If you know  Lindsay, that's about a tenth of what she wants   to do. Um, and uh, cultural plan was number one.  1C was revamping the cultural funding program. So,   I've been here a little over three and a half  years. We've been working on it for that long. Um,   so our new plan divides our grants into two  categories. Operational grants, which I'll   get back to in just a moment, and activation  grants. Now, activation comes from that mission   that Lindsay just read to activate and strengthen  Witchah's creative potential. The activation grant   combines two of our older opportunities,  artist access and developing arts. These   uh provided capacity building or professional  development funding for individual artists and   local organizations respectively. Uh and the  activation grant will do the same thing, but it   also provides programmatic funding for artists or  organizations with good ideas. You might remember   last year we had the Arts Thrive grant. Uh we've  seen two of those three projects already happen.   The third one's going to happen in early 2026.  Uh, and this is a continuation of that spirit. So,   we've got this new grant that does essentially  four things. Uh, capacity building or programmatic   funding for individuals or organizations. Uh,  for capacity building for, excuse me, capacity   building for individual artists um, who serve  our residents could be professional development   or skill building opportunities like workshops,  conferences, website development, anything that   helps them advance as a working artist. uh for  organizations capacity building might look like   strategic planning, audits, board development  and so on. And like I said, it can also help fund   art and that again is either for individuals  or organizations and that can be things like   public art, exhibitions, films, performances so  long as that work serves Witchah's residents. Uh just a couple more details and I'll move on to  the operational grant c category uh opportunity   because the activation grant has a wide variety of  things it can do. The potential ask is also very   wide anywhere from $500 to $10,000 and that's  again all the way from artist access to arts   thrive. Um I'm happy to say that the applications  for the uh activation grant are open right now.   Uh if you're watching online, kudos to you  for your stamina. Uh, and you can just open   a new tab and go to witchah.submittable.com to  apply. Uh, they close at 11:59 p.m. on Monday,   November 3rd. Uh, I did record an information  session for anyone who wants more info and you can   find that on the city's YouTube channel. Again, I  recommend you check out witchah.submittable.com. So uh our new operational grant uh program like  the old version this new plan uh divides our   organizations into three tiers but instead of your  budget size now it's about your organization's   experience both on your own and uh with the city.  It gives us the ability to develop a relationship   and build trust with these organizations. Uh, I  want to note what I'm about to describe is for an   organization with no uh, history of city funding.  We've got a few dozen uh, organizations that have   experience with us already. So, we're dealing with  how that grandfathered experience uh, is going to   work. Organizations that are coming in new to the  opportunity started our base tier. We call those   recipients our cultural partners. This tier works  a lot like the previous system. You have to be   a 501c3. You have to be around for at least two  years and you apply for funding every year. And   just like every other tier, you have to hit your  performance measures to continue to be considered   for funding. The funding you can request is based  on your uh your organization's budget and it's   capped at $15,000. The new part is this. Once the  organization is at least 10 years old and once   it's received funding from the city for at least  five of those 10 years, they can apply to move up   a tier. If accepted, they will become a cultural  anchor. Uh and you'll see in a moment from   Lindsay that the cultural funding committee has  recommended almost 60% of this year's applicants   be placed into the cultural partner tier. Again,  because of that grandfathered experience, that's   not meant to suggest that those organizations will  have to wait five years to move up to the anchor   tier. Uh it's uh a lot of things we're trying to  grandfather in on a case-byase basis. Uh I will   confirm though that any organization moving  to a new tier will at least meet the minimum   requirements for that level. So cultural anchors,  this is our middle tier. Uh, as it says in the   top, these are organizations that have served our  residents for at least 10 years and have received   funding for five of the last 10 years. Uh, there's  some grace there because we know capacity can be   an issue for new or small organizations. Sometimes  you just don't have the time to fill out a grant   application. What makes this tier special is  that anchors receive three-year contracts from   the city and their funding is consistent across  those three years. That funding is based on a   percentage of their budgets. again capped at  $35,000 which they will receive so long as they   continue to meet those performance measures.  When that three-year contract ends, they can   apply for another one. Uh to be clear, anchors  will give us annual reports every year and they   will apply for funding every three years. So there  are lots of opportunities for us to check in and   course correct as necessary. After three of those  contracts or nine years total, uh they can apply   for our final tier, our top tier, which we're  calling cultural institutions. Uh if approved,   and I want to point out there is a budget minimum.  They have to have a budget of at least $500,000 to   move up into that cultural institution tier. Uh  they will have a year tacked on to their final   anchor contract, making it 10 years that they've  been a cultural anchor. And then following that,   they will move up into that cultural institution  status. So, cultural institutions, which is a term   we already use, but we're co-opting it. Uh, they  are again 501c3 nonprofit organizations that have   served our residents for at least 20 years, and  they've received funding from the city of Witchah   for at least 15 years, preferably 15 consecutive  years, and have budgets of at least $500,000. Once   accepted, organizations do not need to reapply  for funding so long as they continue to meet those   annual performance measures. We do have several  uh oversight and cancellation opportunities built   into those contracts. So, if something were to go  wrong, worst case scenario, we're not stuck with   these contracts forever. Obviously, we hope to  never have to use those things. Our goal is always   to make sure that our institutions are healthy and  around to serve multiple future generations. And I   don't want to suggest that we have any concerns  about the organizations being recommended for   cultural institution status today. They are like  you would hopefully expect trusted with long   traditions of successful use of city funding. Um,  you'll see these terms come up in a little bit,   but informally we refer to these uh these cultural  institutions as new cultural institutions and our   existing ones as legacy cultural institutions.  So to very briefly recap, we've got our base   tier cultural partner at least two years old.  Cultural anchor at least 10 years old with five   years of city funding. Cultural institution at  least 20 years old with uh hopefully 15 years of   consecutive city funding. Tier shifts don't happen  automatically. An organization must be accepted   must apply for and be accepted into that tier.  and they can be relegated down a tier or out of   the program entirely if they're not consistently  hitting a majority of their performance measures. Uh so the application the application has three  specific connections to the cultural plan uh   including increasing by 10% per year in each  zip code the number of underserved residents   who access arts and cultural opportunities  establishing Witchah as a regional hub for   cultural arts and partnering with organizations  to increase the number of paid professional   opportunities for artists and art organizations  in the community. Uh the application itself has   several narrative questions and asks for a lot of  data including audience and impact data, board and   staff info and financial information. It is a lot  that we ask of our applicants, but we do view it   as a capacity building exercise. Um we are trying  to help them know what information to gather, help   them gather the information, and to be able to  make the argument for the work that they're doing.   Uh it's uh smaller text there uh in the middle,  but you can see under uh objective 1.1 the   zip codes that staff have gathered. Um we did  gather baseline data from our organizations and   identified uh a few zip codes that we're trying  to target. Our current funding recipients are   required to track uh zip code data in 2025 and  we have been slowly directing their attention   to these uh identified zip codes for 2026. Uh we  don't know yet what kind of movement we're going   to see. Again, this is we're in year two of this  data. Uh but we have been raising awareness that   these areas need some extra attention. Uh those  zip codes for those of you who can't see them   are 67210, 67211, 213, 214, and 67217. Uh one  other thing I'd like to highlight is objective   4.1 partnering. The cultural funding committee  is very big on partnering on collaboration. Uh,   and I will say that partnerships among our grant  recipients have continued to bloom in the past   few years. They know how important it is. They  know how important it is to us. They know how   important it is in general. Um, and one that  came up a lot uh this past grant cycle was um   organizations partnering with a group called Music  Youth Partnership. If you don't know Music Youth   Partnership, they help get instruments into  the hands of underserved students uh and they   provide professional musician mentors for those  students. And so several of our local nonprofit   musicoriented groups have been either donating  their time as mentors or donating instruments   to eventually make their way to those students.  I've got one more slide for you and I'll give it   back to Lindsay. Um just our timeline very quick  uh to remind you discussions around these changes   have been happening for a little over two years.  Um and we started open openly working uh on the   specifics with the cultural funding committee  in March. Uh we opened applications in May and   we closed them in August. Uh staff were available  to help applicants make sure their applications   were complete during that time. Uh and we did work  with several of them to make sure that nothing was   missing. After closing, the committee uh started  reading the applications and prepared questions   for the Q&A, which is a 15-minute slot where the  committee just asks clarifying questions of the   applicant. Uh and that was held on September 18th.  Deliberations began thereafter and culminated a   week later on September 25th. Overall, committee  members averaged about 42 hours of volunteer time   each uh for this one grant opportunity. Uh and we  do hold multiple of them per year. Uh it breaks   down to about 10 hours of strategic work sessions  to help adjust the program and build out the   application, 16 hours to review the submissions,  nine hours in the Q&A session, and seven hours   deliberating the final recommendations. So, we  also know what it is to have an extremely long   meeting. Um, so sympathies. Um, we're very  thankful to chairperson Dominic Ghana and   every member of the cultural funding committee  for their incredible work and their effort in   making this program successful. Um, continuing on  the timeline, we are seeking your approval today   and should we get that approval, contracts will go  out in November. Uh funding will be available on   January 30th and we will be performing site visits  in Q1 and Q2 of 2026 and final annual reports will   be due by January 30th, 2027. And that's what we  use to track their performance measures. So, uh at   this time, I'd like to pass it back to Lindsay for  the rest of the presentation. Thank you very much. All right, we're getting there. uh some general  feedback that we received from both applicants and   committee throughout the the program we thought  was important to share with you all tonight and   um definitely share with the community as well.  Um throughout all of the application process,   especially this year in particular, uh a lot  of applicants and local nonprofits are really   concerned about unstable public funding. Uh so  we're exceptionally proud to bring this program   to you tonight because this is one of the uh  very relied upon uh funding opportunities here   at the local level. I do want to highlight two of  these concerns at the state level. One being the   sunflower summer program, uh, which I'm sure  you're all aware of and have all been great   advocates for over these last few years, but  uh, when the state cut that program in half or   the funding was cut in half for this summer, it  had a really big impact here in Witchaw, which   makes up the lion share of the attractions in the  state. Um similarly, the Kansas Arts Commission,   which is our state counterpart or our state  arts agency, um we received some interesting   legislation in state budgeting this year, uh which  the the state legislature put a 6040 clause on,   um the state's comparative operational  grant program. And that 6040 clause required   uh that all 60% of funding for operational grant  support goes to counties with a population of   80,000 and below which disproportionately impacted  Cedric County organizations and ultimately Cedric   County residents. So because Cedric County  has the most arts organizations in the state   now were competing for the least amount of money  available. a lot of local arts organizations who   have been longtime recipients of state funding  saw dramatic decreases in their funding uh for   operational grants as well. So, that's something  that we're keeping an eye on at the state level.   U but those two programs in particular are big  lifelines for for our local arts organizations   um that have been particularly unstable in this  current fiscal year uh that we're really concerned   about as we move forward. Obviously, the federal  government is making lots of changes right now.   So there's some additional concerns happening at  the at a variety of those levels including the   uh agencies that are listed here. Additionally,  like note, all sectors are facing cost of goods   and services continue to rise despite our budget  uh for this program is not rising at the same   rate. Um the need for performing arts venues  continues to rise both rehearsal and performance   spaces. And something that we really wanted to  highlight, especially if anyone's still listening,   is the need for board development and board  members. and all local nonprofits rely so heavily   on volunteer support. And all of our applicants  and recommended uh funding recipients tonight are   in in the need of more volunteers to help execute  their missions. Um all of this to to bring to   the attention that many of these organizations  provide a lot of lowcost and free programming   throughout the community. Several applicants um  indicated that they might not be able to offer   those free programs or as many programs as they  have in the past because of all these funding   concerns and their general operational needs.  Moving into the operational grant background,   I won't belver this slide too much. Happy  to go into detail uh in Q&A if it comes up,   but just so you can see the growth and changes in  the program over the last few years. uh because of   the strategic changes made this year, uh we have  what we think is more reasonable requested funding   level that's a little bit more comparative to  the amount we actually have to give out. Um   but so we've we've adjusted uh instead of asking  applicants to tell us how much they're requesting   uh because they would request way more than  we would ever potentially be able to award.   Uh we we've kind of capped it out what their  eligible ask could be based on the tiers that   Jesse described. Why do we do this? I would  be remiss if I didn't include the arts and e   economic prosperity slide. Uh the nonprofit arts  sector in Witchaw in 2022, so it's the data is   even a little bit outdated, is $185 million uh  industry of which uh the allocation of about   $500,000 being recommended tonight is about 1.5%  of the total operating costs of our local arts   nonprofits. Jesse mentioned our legacy cultural  institutions. So here's that list. These are   organizations that are not eligible to apply for  the funding uh because they're grandfathered in   uh to a long-standing relationship with the city.  That being said, all of these organizations have   various levels of contracting with us and all  have the comparative performance measures that   uh all cultural funding applicants re receive.  Um as applications or as uhus and operating   agreements with these organizations  come up for renewal, we're updating   um their performance measures to make sure that  they're in line with the strategic plan as well. So the recommendations from the cultural funding  committee um they awarded or are recommending   awarding 31 applicants out of uh 34 received  applications uh with the remaining funding   for the activation grant applica opportunity.  Uh, of that $175,000 to cultural institutions,   $176,000 to cultural anchors, $146,500 to  cultural partners with 55,000 in change   going to the activation grant opportunity.  So, here are the five organizations that the   uh committee is recommending putting into that  cultural institution uh category and with a   recommended funding level of $35,000.  Arts Partners, Music Theater Witchaw,   Exploration Place, Witchaw Symphony, and the  Olrich Museum of Art at WSU. For cultural anchors,   here's the list of uh recommended organizations.  There are eight here. Again, these are the ones   that would receive three-year contracts with  equivalent funding. And 18 organizations have   been recommended for uh cultural partnership  funding recommendations. I do want to note that   we had two first-time application applicants  and um recommended funding opportunities here.   Malberry Art Gallery and Great Plains Nature  Museum or Great Plains Transportation Museum,   excuse me, are two first-time applicants who are  being recommended for funding. And with that,   uh for financial considerations, the estimated  amount uh to be allocated for the program   uh is $553,190 uh based on the anticipated  mill levy results. That number does change   a little bit as we confirm the mill levy uh  in the next month or two. The committee's   recommendations are aligned with that budgeted  amount and we'll be back in December with a   uh recommendation for those activation grants  and and the allocation of that of those funds.   The law department has reviewed the contract  templates as to form and staff recommend approving   the 2026 cultural funding program operating  grant awards as recommended by the cultural   funding committee and authorized the necessary  signatures. And with that, I would love to take   a point of personal privilege to echo what Jesse  said to thank our committee and our applicants for   sticking with us over the last few years as we  made these changes. And Dominic is still in the   room. He's been here all day, our our chair of the  cultural funding committee. So, shout out to him.   And I believe we still have uh some some of our  grant recipients or grant applicants are in the   room tonight. I know there are several more  that wanted to be here today who I believe   have already reached out to you. This program is  incredibly important to our local arts community.   And with that, I'm available for questions as is  Jesse and Dominic. Thank you, Lindsay, Jessie,   and Dom. Council member Hohheisle. Thank you,  Mayor. Uh thank you, Lindsay, and everybody for   your work on this. Shout out to my appointee.  He's been suffering through us all day with us.   Um yeah. Um another district three appointee who  is chair of the committee. So I may have the most   um on council here. Challenge. We'll have to look  that one up. Um I do ask this I think every year.   Um the ones who miss the cut. Um do we reach out  and give them advice? Give them um here's maybe   where you fell short. um how do we reach out  and engage those people? Yeah, great question   and something that we were really strategic with  this year, especially with the activation grant.   Um so there were three organizations that were not  recommended for funding and the committee was very   clear that they wanted to see them apply for the  activation grant. Um so Jesse's already reached   out to them to let them know that they were not  recommended with a handful of reasons and has   offered to meet with them and encourage them to  apply for that activation grant. Um we definitely   treat every organization a little bit different  because they all are very different. Um but we   have an open line of communication with all of the  applicants to help guide them through the process.   But the organizations who are not recommended for  funding um we've already pointed put a touch point   with uh to make sure that they know about this  next grant application opportunity. And with   that we provide feedback to all applicants  um which you can see in your agenda packet   of uh bullet points of areas for opportunity or  areas for improvement or areas uh to highlight   success of the organization that the committee  provides to each applicant. So, we have a really   good report. We believe we have a really good  report with all the applicants. Okay. Thank you,   Council Member Johnson. Thanks, Mayor Lindsay,  Jesse, Dom. Appreciate all your work uh on this.   I like the new direction. Also wanted to mention,  Jesse, nice frame. So, I like those. Um, but I   I really appreciate this direction that you're  going. Um, it looks good all the thoughtfulness   and effort that you all put into it. So, I  appreciate it and definitely am supportive of it. I have several questions. Sorry,  Lindsay. Um, I first and foremost,   thank you for the new process. I think it is  very um transparent. It also um provides more   uh parameters that are more realistic. I know  that last year the over $1 million ask and then   really we didn't have a million dollars and so the  expectation was just not there. Um and so I'm glad   that it is now much more realistic on what the  dollar amounts are available. However, I did look   at those dollar amounts. So last year uh $510,000  roughly for 39 organizations. Is that accurate?   Um, let me pull up this slide again if this is  what you're referencing. This one about 495,000   I believe 510 included included the artist  access grant equivalent but so that yes that   was the total funding pool and last year I know  that um several of the institution organizations   um received more than what they're getting this  year. Um I wanted to hear the feedback from those   uh institutions. What have you heard? Because  now it is capped at 35,000. Um I know that   music theater last year received 40,500 but now  we're recommending 35,000 since that's the cap   for institutions. How will this impact them? Sure.  Great question. Thank you for bringing it up. Um   this is the tricky part of this program every year  is figuring out um how to set clear expectations   um without utilizing too much historical data  for all the reasons that Jesse indicated that   the program is new and fresh each year. What we  have heard from institutions and all organizations   is that sustainable funding models are really more  helpful than anything. So while organizations can   uh receive a big swing in uh funding allocations  year-to-year just depending on the funding pool   available, how many applicants there were, who  was on the committee, how they wrote their grant   application, uh knowing how much funding  you're going to get as an organization,   uh in this case for institutions potentially  in perpetuity is much more stable than   uh seven to$10,000 here or there. They don't have  to apply for the grant anymore. um they just they   still have to uh do their performance measures,  but the the staff burden that this takes off   the organizations to to apply for from what we've  heard from institutions in particular is worth it.   So they know what they're getting, they can budget  it in. Um that that stability is worth more than   anything. Follow-up question to that institution  um conversation. So uh a large majority of these   institutions have gotten a score that is the  highest numbers um compared to partners and anchor   organizations. Um was there ever a consideration  amongst the board regarding the highest scores and   how you would uh reward I guess high scoring.  Um I see that highest scoring is exploration   plates followed by Witchaw Symphony Orchestra.  Was there ever a consideration of if you got a   very high score you would be rewarded also? Great  question. So yes in the institution category they   were all award recommended for the same amount of  funding just to kind of set that stable amount.   But what you'll see is in the anchor and partner  categories uh is the the highest scoring applicant   isn't always the highest uh recommended  funding because of the eligible ask. So we   still take in consideration the budget size and  the organizational size um and their capacity to   receive funding. So um the highest score doesn't  always indicate the highest allocation. However,   it should be comparative um within their eligible  funding recommended amount. Does that make sense?   Okay. And then I know that um an institution  obviously Arts Partners is an institution they're   getting 35,000 but Arts Council is actually uh  one of the other organizations that is not even   part of this conversation. However, how do you do  how do you make sure that people are organizations   are not overlapping um in terms of services  provided? Uh that's an interesting question. Um,   we definitely have some organizations that provide  comparable services or comparable programming. Um,   we have several dance organizations. In the  Q&A this year, uh, that was one question that   the committee asked all the applicants like what  differentiates you from this other comparative   organization and all applicants had an incredible  response to that. Uh, that our community is quite   large. Um, and all of these organizations  serve their different pocket of the community   in different ways. So, that's kind of how the  committee approaches that. um really looking at   a universal approach to who's impacting uh the  the greatest good in the community. So we have   two different a two-prong approach of funding  deeply and funding broadly. So deeply within   um a financial structure but and broadly within  community impact. So although there might be some   like-minded uh services um that's not necessarily  taken into consideration of we're only looking to   fund one dance or one music organization because  fundamentally they can operate quite differently.   So, I'm going to go back to the um performance of  the scoring system and maybe Dom was about to come   forward regarding this, but I know that obviously  when it comes to an anchor institution, the   highest scores were Mark Arts and Harvester Arts.  They both got the highest amount, $30,000. When it   came to partner organizations, the two highest  scoring were Oreium The Orium Performing Arts   Center and Witchaw Grand Opera. and they got the  highest amount. But when it came to institution,   and this is where I'm going to push back just a  little bit because again, the highest scoring out   of all of these applicants is exploration place.  And so I wanted to make sure that you're rewarding   um obviously results, you're rewarding um  rewarding organizations that are performing   at a stellar um pace or a stellar scoring. No,  we have this discussion every year. One of the   challenges was great thing that staff created this  new programming was organizations like Exploration   Place MTW have the resources and the grant writing  experience. We're not looking at the level of work   that we see they do in the community. We're basing  this operational grant on the proposal they've   provided at that year. So those scores vary from  year to year, but we're looking at what they have   out there. Traditionally exploration place would a  and our old funding model is a percentage of what   they were asking for where we're getting there.  We're trying to create some equity during the   cultural planning process. If you remember the  arts council had these little meeting sessions   to review. What they mentioned earlier was these  organizations said this extended funding model   would be much more appreciated. So they know what  they're going to get as opposed to asking for say   $120,000 and we only provide them 50. But then  the next year we provide them 25 and all these   scores out there. I do feel as an organization  and as a committee we are trying to fund these   ex exceptional organizations like the top five we  have out there. They are extremely deserving. They   would receive money. Unfortunately, there is no  guarantee based on everyone in that group with the   7 to 11 bodies coming to agreement on what that  funding level is. One of the things we've done a   very good job over the last two to three years is  making sure that we have unanimous approval of the   plan we're presenting to you. And there were years  early on I voted against I didn't agree with the   funding levels some organizations were getting  because I didn't believe they met the metrics   that I had laid out for them. Um so I understand  where you what you're asking. We don't have the   money and you're not going to give us more money  to fund these arts organizations. This is the most   equitable and fair mindset from everyone involved  from the committee with the challenges we had um   from an arts plan that wasn't functioning to our  needs to the needs of these arts organizations.   Um I believe there may even be did we get what who  did MTW send an email that was going to be here?   Yeah. Even expressing how appreciative they are  of this new funding model. Again, I cannot go more   or say more about the work Jesse did to get the  input of all the stakeholders because for when I   was came on the committee in 2020 about two weeks  before the actual grant process and what Jesse's   done, this plan we feel meets everyone's needs  and funds these organizations, exploration place,   music, theater, arts partners to the level that we  think this city can give them. and provide success   for everyone here. Thank you, Dom, and thank you  to the committee. Um, I will just again put it   for the record that I I see that the highest score  literally out of all of these is 95.7 and that's   exploration place. And I want to make sure that  we are always being mindful that if people are   performing or organizations are performing at a  stellar mark that they get compensated that way.   and and I understand that all institutions got the  same amount 35,000 um but if there would have been   for the most exceptional I mean some amount that  is a very challenging thing because the resources   they have present the scoring system out there  with an application they have the resources that   arch partners doesn't have so it's really it's  harder to say that this score is again we're   judging it based on the evidence provided for  this year and what they have with the numbers   how well it's written because it's it's kind of  challenging to kind of say I'm going to give an   example of Juniper Arts and Exploration Place. The  level of staffing and knowledge they have to ask   for fund and where they are is night and day. And  if we're looking at these applications and judging   what's in front of us, it's hard to say this is  just a score based on 7 to 11 people's personal   scoring system. And that number changes from year  to year based on who's on that committee. I try to   keep the same system in place since I've come on.  But it's hard. It is hard. Like I know the work   that these groups do. I've now for most of the  organizations on this list, I've actually seen   the work they do. But we don't want to think  about that. We need to look at it purely from   the level of what they're performing from dollars  and cents levels. There's two organizations which   applied for institutions which didn't meet the  criteria we fit we felt needed at this time. So   we are providing the resource and the opportunity  for them to move up. And again, we use those based   on the scorings we have on that system, too,  because those organizations don't fit in within   the same scoring levels as the other organizations  on there. I understand what you say. We go through   this every year. It's been a major challenge for  us and this there's no perfect system. This is the   best that we have and I'm confident with it with  where we are. Thank you, Dom. Vice Mayor Johnston.   Thank you, Mayor. I would say I really like the  system. I think the the three years and know what   your funding is and not having to go through a  process every year. So I I really do like it and   I appreciate all the work you've done with it.  So thank you. Last question [TRANSCRIPT TRUNCATED DUE TO EXCESSIVE LENGTH TO PREVENT PROCESSING COSTS]