e e [Music] good evening and welcome to the June 6th 2024 meeting of the Bloomington Planning Commission the Planning Commission is made up of seven volunteer Bloomington residents appointed by the city council tonight we have seven which is a quorum the commission advises the city council on development proposals development standards long-range planning and transportation issues our work is informed by the city's comprehensive plan various District plans and the city code for some items the Planning Commission makes a recommendation with the city council having final decision-making Authority there are two such items on tonight's agenda in other cases the Planning Commission can approve or deny an application subject to an appeal to the city council we have two of those types of items tonight for each action item there will be a staff report an opportunity for the applicant to present and then time for any member of the public to provide testimony our first order of business tonight is the Pledge of Allegiance please stand as you are able I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right the first item on the AG agenda tonight is a request for a conditional use permit for a rooftop patio at an existing restaurant with revisions to final development plans and planner oday has the presentation I do thank you chair and commission members um yeah so the first item on tonight's agenda is is for a conditional use permit and major revision to final development plan for Full Tilt Tavern so full tilet Tavern is located at 8301 Normandale Boulevard uh surrounding land uses are to the north uh there are Apartments to the east um an office tower to the South an ex uh existing gas station and then to the West is the Normandale Office Park so Full Tilt Tavern that has changed um this building has changed hands over time currently it's Full Tilt Tavern um and they have 113 indoor seats and 100 outdoor seats couple photos uh looking directly at the building entrance on the left and then on the right hand side you can see uh the existing outdoor patio so a couple notes about uh land use for this uh application restaurants are permitted use in the B4 zoning District however when you associate an outdoor patio uh that does require a conditional use permit and then as well as their building addition does require a major revision to final development plans so getting into what they are proposing uh they're proposing a total of 2900t uh Total Building Edition and that comprises of a 2600 fot Edition on the southwest side of the existing building um a twole slide just south of the uh building Edition and then a 288 ft cooler Edition located to the North and then a 65t elevator and staircase Edition and then uh this uh shaded green shaded area kind of covers what the uh rooftop area will be and so it covers kind of the western half of the building um so the images that I have on the screen the north um is the aial with kind of the yellow squares um outlining the addition area and then on the south or the bottom image on my screen is their um civil site plan getting into the floor plans um the ground level would include 70 seats uh games and um the perimeter would be outlined with folding windows that can be partially or fully opened um the cooler uh would be for employees only and would be accessed from within the building and then the uh elevator and staircase would be added of course and then the remaining floor area would be um unchanged and then getting into the rooftop floor plan um like I said earlier it's covering the Western half of the existing building and they're showing 156 new seats a pergula would cover the area and then of course the twole um slide would take patrons from the rooftop to the ground floor so here are a couple building renderings on the um top left is the Western elevation and then the bottom left is the South elevation and what they're proposing is a mix of um primarily glass uh which is a benefit because the B4 zoning District does have specific um structure design standards so the the building materials are compliant with our B4 standards and then on the right uh right side of my screen is the um building rendering to give you an idea of what they're proposing so getting into the um requested deviations um so in 2008 the city pre pre excuse me proactively rezoned the site from B2 to B4 um and so the B4 zoning district has a point 2 F So currently what they're having is1 111 and with the building additions um they're showing .13 just to note that the rooftop area does not um is not calculated into the floor area because it's not a fully enclosed uh finished area um staff is supportive of the development flexibility because um it does provide a public benefit it complies with the Normandale Lake District plan um it's more in line with the before intent than um present day um and it does provide um additional foot traffic and activity to a very prominent uh section of Bloomington and then another uh request for deviation that they're requesting uh the B4 zoning district has a minimum 10t uh building setback and a maximum 40ft building setback along streets and so the addition would bring um it closer to 46 ft from the property line along Normandale Service Road um and we are supportive of this request for deviations um as previously mentioned so getting into uh noise um outdoor patios obviously um uh have sound and so this outdoor patio must meet our noise standards and so at the nearest residential receiver which is to the north uh the outdoor patio must not exceed uh during daytime hours a DBA level of 60 and then 65 for the L10 noise level and then during nighttime hours because they are proposing to be um open past 10 p.m. so these noise standards would apply so the um noise level can exceed 50 DBA and then 55 DBA for the l50 and L10 levels and so staff um is proposing a um noise condition that was printed in the packet and we do have a previous uh rooftop patio that was approved a number of years ago go um and so with that application um we had approved or attached the condition related to noise and so um staff is recommending the same um condition for that previous uh rooftop patio cup and applying it to this uh proposed patio as well um and then uh the applicant has expressed concern about this uh noise related condition and so to address concern staff is recommending um this modified uh condition for your reference and basically what IT addresses is it uh addresses complaints from three separate um parties instead of uh the previous condition that could um create the same person complaining three times and then uh kind of a more stringent um condition gets at uh verifi noise complaints so this condition um would involve a completion of a noise study um and if there were uh violations then they would have to mitigate noise um under A and B and so these uh conditions are for your feedback and um staff is looking for um guidance But ultimately is recommending the condition that we had provided in the packet and then just a couple miscell items with the uh previous cup for this property there was a cup for indoor entertainment and Recreation due to their uh games on site and so that previous cup required a sidewalk connection to be installed from the building entrance to the public sidewalk an inspection verified that that has not been completed and so we are recommending a condition that they install that sidewalk um and their lighting is is compliant today and so that just must be maintained and then lastly um a liquor license must be approved by city council prior to opening and so with that we are recommending approval um and I believe the staff or the applicant excuse me is in attendance tonight for any questions thanks for that could you refresh uh for the commission's memory uh I know we had quite a bit of discussion about the other property that was referenced which I believe is the William McCoy property with those conditions because there there were similar concerns at the time how have those conditions um played out over the last six seven eight years they've been there uh chair um yeah so we were able to um ask our environmental health staff if there have been complaints and there were complaints early on uh back in 2016 and Willie McCoy has been able to address um some of those noise concerns by putting up um like a sound a sound wall that mitigates um noise to the neighbors um but since then we haven't received any complaint not since they took the mitigation corre correct okay thank you questions for staff commissioner Al uh thank you chair my question is related to the floor area ratio I'm just questioning if you had added the rooftop where would we be at for floor area ratio chair uh commissioner albrech if we included the rooftop area it would still be below the0 2 um so they would still need a request for deviation if we included that area significantly below or I don't know significantly Below close to point2 but still below thank you yep question other questions for staff commissioner cookton thank you Mr chair uh M OD can you um remind me where we're at with Landscaping on this uh on this site thank you uh chair commissioner cookton uh I do have the landscape plan they are showing a compliant number of um they're required to have uh one tree per uh 2500 square ft of disturbance air so they're they're meeting the tree quantity um in addition they have to um replant what has been deceased or missing over time and so they do have to kind of do an inventory of what's on site with uh the approved Landscaping plan and just replant what um has maybe died over time or have been um taken out commissioner gozman thank you chair um Mr day can you talk a little bit about a signage plan for this property I know that there's a large mural on the side of the building today and it looks like that would be changing uh commissioner or chair commissioner gozman I'm not aware of any signage um plan I know that um with this application they're not changing kind of the name or anything um I guess I would defer to the applicant for any um signage related questions thank you any other question commissioner Curry thank you chair um is there a city code that covers a slide like this like we're talking about a kind of Second Story patio where I assume people will be uh drinking and hanging out at at night so not sure if slide is something that we need to be concerned about uh chair commissioner Curry no our code doesn't specifically address um the slide uh they will have uh Stans I'm not sure if I'm saying that word right um but at the top and um below where people get off um but maybe I can have the applicant address kind of how they're going to address um safety um and other things thank you had that same question because it appears to be an open a slide not a enclosed slide yeah other questions for staff commissioner albrech uh thank you Mr chair uh for the sake I guess of the record what's the what is the general cost of a noise study what would that cost the applicant do you have any idea I I do not have any estimate okay okay thank you um other questions for staff thank you would the applicant like to speak on this item inconvenient timing fracture your foot that's for sure my name is Mike Tupa and I'm the proprietor if you could pull the mic to your so the people on the video can hear you okay I'm M Chupa I'm the proprietor of full til Tavern and so um slide is definitely on my mind um I've spoke with my insurance agent and kind of talked through the idea of putting in an enclosed slide you know versus the open slide so we think it would probably benefit us just an additional Safeguard so it's something we're put in consideration and we'll most likely wind up doing and the signage there's no change in signage questions for the applicant commissioner alre uh thank you chair I'll just stick on the slide for a second here um if someone is going down the slide and then just decides to stop how would someone know at the top before they go down I'm just thinking like at a water park for example there's usually a lifeguard or something making sure that someone comes out of the slide right yeah at this point I haven't thought through actually Manning you know a staff member there sure I view it I mean no different than going to a playground I suppose there's no one Manning a slide sure thank you other questions for the applicant thank you okay this item is a public hearing so at this time I will open the public hearing and ask if there's anyone from the public who would like to speak on this item we have a number of people online I don't know if any of them are here for this item yeah chair Roman everybody online is either for other items or staff members okay thank you um seeing no one online and no one in the chambers to speak on this item I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing so moved second thank you we have a motion and a second to close the public hearing any discussion in favor say I I I opposed the motion carries the public hearing is closed discussion on this item I think my only observation is the one that commissioner Curry raised I would um I think the slide is an interesting idea I'm not terribly concerned about the you know the red light green light part of it but I do think in clo given the nature of what we expect many of the patrons will be doing at this establishment I do support um and I don't know if it needs to be a condition necessarily maybe it does maybe it doesn't but I think an enclosed slide is probably a good idea um beyond that I think the FL area ratio with I know we don't consider the rooftop patio but this whole area like B4 where we want up we want height I think and given that we we know that people in the city like outdoor patio dining uh I think getting that closer to point two with that I feel good about commissioner alre uh thank you Mr chair uh regarding the slide I actually had the opposite thought about the slide being an open slide so you could see who's going down and making sure they're going down versus a closed slide so I think leave it to the experts and probably your insurance agent what what is uh what is appropriate um I'm also in support of that I think um like uh chair Roman said the getting that F closer to point 2 I really supportive of that I think that rooftop is considered usable space um and probably highly used space in that area given the number of people who work and also live uh along that Corridor um the other thing that I had to say about this um site is I think the design is really well done keeping the uh the patio on the Southern and the western side more towards the office rather than the residential so I appreciate um the uh Forward Thinking in that um and I am in support commissioner cookton thank you Mr chair um you know we were asked to look at a few things with this so with the floor area ratio I too am supportive I think we're getting closer and when you when you back calculate the math as to what it would take to be a 02 you'd have to like double the size of this establishment which is not economically feasible I imagine so um I I don't have an issue with that um the sidey yard setback we were also asked to look at again I think it would be impractical it's kind of a funky ship lot it's a very unique site I think trying to meet code by pushing that building another six feet is Impractical and I think we can take a practical look at this and say that's just fine what they're proposing um and the modified condition they've put before us with the uh complaints that seemed reasonable to me so I don't have any problems with that um so my overall thoughts are it's a it's a good expansion to a good local business you know we don't have a ton of local restaurants in Bloomington necessarily and I'm happy to see this one uh being successful and expanding and I'm in support of it commissioner goldsman thank you chair um I would Echo what commissioner cookton said about the F setbacks um I also looked at this as a local company that's helping support amenities for our families um places that we can bring our kids and have a dinner and have some fun and in a safe and controlled environment um I'm excited to see uh this expansion obviously this location has gone through many different names and hats and it's just nice to see it being successful enough that they want to expand um I hope they take reservations for summer fet so we can watch our fireworks so I'll be supportive um I was realizing that one of the questions that planner oday asked us was about um the two different approaches to the conditions uh one was the conditions that were very similar to what was at Willie McCoy and the other one was the one that would require a noise study um and so I don't know I think they were hoping to get some direction from us I I lean toward the conditions that are similar to William McCoy they've shown to be effective uh and did lead to modifications when there was an impact on the residential nearby but I don't know if others have thoughts commissioner Curry thank you chair yeah I I would agree I think um the Willie McCoy's uh conditions have been effective I'd go that direction um generally I'm supportive I don't know how to manage a slide I guess i' would leave that up to um the proprietor and just glad to see uh someone investing in the in the site because it has turned over a number of times and good to see uh yeah some more money being put into it commissioner goldsman thank you chair um you know I think I see the the applicant's point of if you have three or more complaints it's pretty ambiguous if we have three of the same person calling um that really opens the door um for maybe someone to call that three times and the fourth time you're out um so I'm supportive of the change but I also struggle with inconsistencies in our applications and so I don't know how to rectify that um if there's a way that we can somehow administratively make that comment I don't know I just I I don't want to change it for one but not for the other that makes sense commissioner cookton commissioner Goldman if I may perhaps we you could view it as a Improvement on what we're doing so if we stay the same all the time that's not so good either right so I I look at this as more of an improvement than uh uh we're doing this for somebody we're doing this for somebody else I would hope that um I'm fine with the the revision um I would hope that in the spirit of um being a good neighbor even if there was one um who had a problem more than once that there would be an opportunity to make some improvements because again I think the improvements that were made at William McCoy were not terribly um they cost some money they weren't terribly expensive and they they were effective and so um well I appreciate there's a Hardline I think that um whenever we can be good neighbors and appreciate the softline that's um that would be my hope other discussion or a motion commissioner McGovern uh I'd like to make a motion please in case P 20 24-50 having been able to make the required findings I move to recommend the city council to adopt a resolution approving a conditional use permit for a rooftop patio at the existing restaurant subject to the conditions and code requirements attached to the staff report second thank you we have a motion in a second to recommend the city council adopt a conditional use permit any further discussion in favor say I I opposed the motion passes um and anyone else commissioner cookton Mr chair in case p 20245 I move to recommend the city council approve a major revision to final development plans for an addition onto an existing restaurant subject to the conditions and Coda requirements attached to the staff report second thank you we have a motion and a second to recommend uh major revision to final development plans further discussion in favor say I I opposed the motion carries this item will appear on the June 17th city council agenda in the consent agenda the second item is another conditional use permit and final development plans for a new restaurant and we have planner OD day as our restaurant expert tonight thank you chair commission item two is an application by Pig 8 my pizza they are applying for a conditional use permit and final development plan so getting to the property uh this is at 10700 Bloomington faery Road uh surrounding land uses are to the north there's a school to the east a church and then to the South there's the rest of Countryside Center and um Dread Scott and then to the West is um the rest of Countryside Center and single family residential so here's a couple photos of existing conditions um this is a 3200 uh squ foot former gas station and pigate my pizza would occupy uh this entire building um so on the left hand side of my screen is uh looking at the uh building entrance and then to the back um standing on landal Circle uh looking at the back of the building so getting into uh land use uh very similar to the last application restaurants are permitted use in the B2 zoning District um and outdoor patios do require a cup and then the building addition that they're proposing does require a major rision to final development plan so getting into what they're proposing uh they're showing 75 indoor seats and then uh 1300t building Edition which is outlined in red on my screen uh they will be having uh 72 outdoor seats um uh sorry I'm missing a number there uh 24 um of them would be seasonal only and then um they're showing a play area just to the north of the patio and then they will be constructing uh three additional parking stalls in the front of the building um so getting into the deviations that they are requesting um the B2 zoning District requires a 35t setback from the street and landow circle is considered a street even though it's a culd saac um so what they're proposing is 2 52 ft from the property line and staff is comfortable with the uh request for deviation due to the ReUse of the building um as a former gas station um they're uh adding more foot traffic and activity to a a neighborhood commercial node um so overall we are supportive of the building setback request getting into parking um we require uh kind of a list of of all the existing use um at Countryside Center and then I calculated the parking required for the entire Center as a whole and so what they required is 212 spaces for the entire um Countryside Center shopping center and so what they're having today is 179 spaces which includes the three that they're proposing to construct um they are showing a 30 um stall proof of parking um space area and so with the proof of parking um the deviation is 2 .5% from city code um and then staff is is comfortable with that level of deviation and then lastly um this parcel is um separate from the larger uh Countryside Center and so should it sell off to a separate owner in the future uh we're requiring uh the owner to file a shared parking agreement that just covers maintenance um how uh parking will be shared if there are two uh property owners owners in the future uh just getting into Landscaping overall they're showing a compliant number of landscaping material a couple revisions uh to parking lot islands are missing trees so they do have to show that and then as well as Foundation plantings along the northern um building edge of the addition um and then patio screening has been provided along the north and east side um and and then similar with the last application the outdoor patio must meet uh noise and um liquor license must be approved by city council prior to opening and with that we are recommending approval and the applicant and architect are online for uh questions thank you questions for staff commissioner gozman thank you chair um one question I have is around the play area this proposed um can you talk a little bit about how that'll be screened uh or fenced for safety sorry you said screened screened or fenced yes for safety yep uh chair commissioner gozman so they are showing um kind of vegetation around the um around the area I'm not sure if there will be a fence I guess I'll have to defer to the applicant um if there'll be a fence um around the area great thank you other questions for staff commissioner mcgan uh being that it's former gas station um is the existing uh underground tank still there uh chair commissioner McGovern I believe they're not there um I drove by uh a couple weeks ago and I did not see them so I think they are gone but I'll defer to the applicant for verification thank you other questions for staff commissioner cookton thanks Mr chair I think commissioner MC govern brings up a interesting point has this site ever been cleaned up uh as like a Brownfield chair commissioner cooked in I'm am not aware of any cleanup um activity happening on the site very well other questions for staff for um this is more of an educational question but you know when the applicant originally brought this and there was the parking deviation and then there was some additional spots constructed given that to the north but it's across the culdesac there is um a church which has a lot of parking which sees very little use could the applicant have chosen to do a shared parking agreement with a property that's across a street chair commissioner uh chair um yeah I suppose they could have um a shared parking agreement if that property um agreed to it just just curious is we've had multiple conversations in this body about right sizing parking um there are some times when we need more but there are a lot of times where we have too much uh and so it just was mostly a curiosity question commissioner MC gabrin uh piggybacking um what you're saying uh could the school parking lot also be an alternative uh being that you don't have to cross the road and it's in the same area as the restaurant I think in general I think what we heard was that it can be um if they chose to do that thank you true other questions for staff no seeing none uh would the applicant like to speak on this item I think we'll gotta pop them online one second here while we get them loaded up hello um can you hear me we can fabulous um I just wanted to respond to to the few questions that were deferred to us um we are not currently showing a fence around the play area um but we are intending that there would be a rather thick vegetative Edge to that um and then the tanks from the fuel tanks have been removed and we have documentation of an all clear to move forward um seeing as the soil was cleaned to the best of my knowledge other questions for the applicant thank you very much this item is a public hearing so I will open the public hearing and ask if there's anyone in the chambers who would like to speak on this item same situation online all right um seeing that there is no one in the chambers and no one online I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing so moved second thank you we have a motion in a second to close the public hearing any discussion in favor say I I opposed motion carries the public hearing is closed discussion on the application commissioner cookton oh sorry commissioner Alber thank you Mr chair uh uh I am in full support of this I think again as we mentioned in the last application having an additional restaurant and a place for families together is always a good thing for the city of Bloomington um I also think a reuse of a gas station is also a really great thing um since those are a hard thing to figure out what to do with afterwards um and uh I appreciate the the well thought out design of the patio and also a location for kids because there are we are in need of places for children in the city so uh I'm in support commissioner Goldson thank you chair um just a couple of comments I wrote down here I completely agree uh with the ReUse of this underutilized space um and and the applicant being flexible and and making it a vibrant place for our families um to the application looking at the existing conditions um I'm okay with the setback um deviation that's been requested um I am fully supportive of the deviation parking even the you know I think we're overp parked in that area there's a lot of area um right now for cars thinking about as a neighborhood commercial note I'm hopeful that residents can walk to this restaurant and not even need to drive as well as there's a a a large um bike trail that's very close by as well as the the um baseball diamonds so I think it's a great place for people to walk to versus Drive um and then would just say from a patio perspective um I would be in supportive of the same conditions that we just talked about for the other application for noise um to be applied to this one as well thank you commissioner Curry thank you chair um yeah I guess I also apologize I didn't really get into the think about the noise thing so much until this moment um so I don't know how much that's been considered but I guess I would consider you know think think that's something that maybe we should look at here um I do you know there's less outdoor seating I suppose at this site versus Full Tilt but I think it's also much closer to neighborhoods than uh the busy Normandale and 84th intersection I think it's 84th um so I mean I recognize the you know some of the letters that have been written in and folks concerned about noise and drivers in the area I'm not so concerned about uh drivers given the exit uh or the yeah the exit from the property back onto Bloomington and West Old Shaka Road um but noise might be a concern planner o Day do you know what the distance is from the proposed patio to the nearest residential I think it's fair distance I do I suspected you might oh W so a couple different um uh aspects from this application um you have the building kind of um shielding from at least to the West it's also um ground level so it's not up on a rooftop um so it's not at the same level as Full Tilt uh also their hours they're planning on closing at uh 10: p.m. they're not uh Full Tilt they're planning on opening till or closing sorry at uh 2: a.m. and so this has kind of an earlier closure uh so a couple different um aspects from this application um yeah I think the commissioner Curry pointed about some of the public comment we received about um the the bike trail uh potential an establishment that involves alcohol we already have that in this Center um I've been there a number of times I've not at different times of day and I've never I mean any any place can have that any place that serves people has the potential to over serve and have issues but um I think that I not I'm again we've got we've got that already there and I don't know that that's the the responsibility of this body to to govern that uh I think the 300 ft is actually closer than I thought it might be and so I don't know to the question about noise standards what that looks like commissioner gozman thank you chair I think the the piece that was my swaying or two things is obviously the height of the patio um Mak a big difference and then I think their closure at 10: p.m. has been that that was really what when the threshold for the other noise um kicked in um so I'm okay with it as proposed um as as long as it's at that location and also with those hours those hours commissioner cookton thank you Mr Sher mizo day for our conditions is this a conditional use permit okay so for our conditions of approval is it the same conditions we were using for Full Tilt regarding the complaints no so the complaint the three complaint is not on piget Pizza application okay but they are required to comply with noise at all times and that is a condition on their application just not the three complaint how did staff determine arrive at that determination of making that difference uh due to the hours of operation this is slightly further away from residential and then the kind of grade difference between like the rooftop p being more kind of um a higher sound travels um and this is just at grade um so we didn't feel that it was necessary to have the three complaint condition on this application okay thank you uh okay keep going thank you Mr chair um so I don't know I I could be swayed either way that is some inconsistency there and um if we're going to be inconsistent I think we should have rules for inconsistency you know okay 300t above you something like that I don't know I'm a little uncomfortable with the inconsistency there although I do understand why staff is has different conditions on this application um aside from the noise uh My overall uh sort of thoughts here I think it's a huge win for this neighborhood you know this is one of the less well-known areas of Bloomington it's not an area I find myself in very often and I think this is going to be a regional draw I think this is more than just a local spot I think we're going to see people from other cities coming here and I'm a little surprised to see it going here actually I would expect a a regional draw like this to go to some other neighborhoods and I think it proves that uh some of our other areas in the city that refuse to add in retail space is is ridiculous there are people that want to come here and and and could go into other neighborhoods and and I think people should take notice of that um so I think it's terrific for this neighborhood I think they're going to see a lot of folks coming in I think it's going to be very successful F and I'm supportive of it commissioner Curry thank you chair um you I guess I just noticed on the on the patio it does look like there is a six foot high privacy fence on the east side of the property and then a 3 foot high uh Ceder privacy fence on the north side of the the patio so yeah again I don't know about the inconsistency but um given the smaller patio the time of day and the the cedar fence maybe it's you know not as big of a deal and see if see how things go commissioner alre uh thank you Mr chair Miss OD day the the condition that we used in the last uh application that condition was specific to after 10 p.m. I just want to be clear about that is that correct that's correct okay then um that being said I am comfortable since it's supposed to be closing at 10 p.m. um with uh not using the similar condition uh and being okay with uh traditional noise uh code that we have already any other discussion or a motion commissioner gozman if I could make a motion uh in a moment you may thank you there we are perfect thank you in case p2024 d61 having been able to make the required findings I move to rec men city council adopt a resolution approving a conditional use permit for an outdoor patio at a new restaurant at 10700 Bloomington Ferry Road subject to the conditions and code requirements attached to the staff report second thank you we have a motion and a second to recommend city council approve a conditional use permit any further discussion in favor say I I opposed the motion passes commissioner gozman thanks chair in case p 2024 61 I move to recommend city council approve a major revision to final development plans for an addition onto a new restaurant at 10700 Bloomington Ferry Road subject to the conditions and code requirements attached to the staff report second thank you we have a motion in a second to recommend major revision to final development plans further discussion in favor say I I I opposed the motion passes these items will also appear on the June 17th city council meeting in the consent agenda all right um item number three is a public hearing on Final site and building plans for stadium improvements and site improvements at Kennedy High School um before we begin I want to let anyone know who did not hear ahead of time there is a sign-in sheet over at the table by the entrance for anyone who would like to speak on this item or the next item um we will be calling folks through the list in order to have uh accurate information for the role when we do get to public testimony we have our shot clock which uh everyone who like to give testimony has the opportunity to testify for three minutes I'd ask that people respect the time limit I get that this is a big issue there's um strong perspectives passions on both side and I want to make sure that we give everyone who would like to be heard the opportunity to be heard um and so I don't know do we have any before we launch into this with senior planner cenario okay the floor is yours of the staff report thank you chair Commissioners next on agenda is final site in building plans uh for uh the Kennedy High School athletic Stadium on nicholet Avenue oh my not sharing I'm sorry there we go great and it's it's been a little bit of a journey so far um the school district originally applied last September uh we had a couple continuances to November 2nd then it was continued to November 30th and then on November 30th it was indefinitely continued uh to allow the school district some time to prepare a sound study or a noise study um and we were bringing the item back to the May 9th Planning Commission meeting uh but then on the 7th we received notification from the Minnesota environmental equality board or eqb that a petition was received and that petition uh essentially petitioned uh the city to require an environmental assessment worksheet or eaw so uh the commission wasn't able to take action on the 9th uh we had to wait for the city council to make their determination on whether or not an eaw was required well the council did that on Monday night and they made the determination that an eaw was not required uh for the stadium project and so here we are tonight for the for all the folks who regularly watch the Planning Commission meetings um you may have heard us talk about the discretion pyramid uh I think it is relevant in this for the for this application and so you know as you get higher on the pyramid you have a lower amount of discretion as you get lower on the pyramid you have a higher amount of discretion you know at the top you have permits which is strictly a ministerial action if you are meeting city code requirements we are obligated to approve it right below that are site plans which is what you're reviewing tonight where there is there is lower discretion and so we're really looking at the findings that are required for final St building plans uh which direct relate directly to city code and so here are the findings and so in order for the Planning Commission to consider approving uh a site plan application the commission has to make these findings uh and I highlighted the FI a portion of the finding that I think is at issue with a lot of folks related to this application and that it's not injurious to the surrounding neighborhood uh you know a lot of these words can be subjective but there is a distinction between injurious and inconvenient or um less than ideal uh injurious is really harm so just keep that in mind as you consider uh the testimony that you're going to hear and and before you vote so touching on existing conditions at Kennedy uh here's an image of the campus uh outlined in red is the the existing uh athletic Stadium it has it has artificial turf today uh and a track and that would be retained uh I think the the school district wants to to change the turf but it would REM remain artificial no changes to the the uh track uh and then really the most of the campus would stay uh the same I'll zoom in a little bit but here is a site plan and it identifies some physical changes it's it's not very clear but I'll I'll uh get in that a moment so this kind of zooms into the the stadium area uh you can see the the actual bleachers in this space on the west side of the field there there is not enough space on the east side of the field to accommodate any bleachers so the entirety is on the west um and then some some parking would be removed near the entrance to accommodate uh some pedestrian movements which is something that staff uh was happy to see you know certainly there's going to be buses dropping off athletes and certain Spectators and so they just needed the space to do that so some of the parking was is replaced with a concrete uh area and talking about parking you know we calculate parking as onethird of the occupancy and for a stadium with at a total occupancy of 2500 that makes the parking requirement 833 833 well there is an 833 stalls in the Kennedy campus however we do have a mechanism called proof of parking where uh a property owner is able to demonstrate that they could meet the code uh but doesn't necessarily have to build the parking and that's what we're were proposing where the school district proposing here uh you know obviously parking lots are very costly they uh they do have you know some environmental impact and so the school district uh if approved uh wouldn't necessarily construct this parking lot if it turned out to be that the the parking on site was sufficient and staff is supportive of that of that method we have an elevation of the bleachers themselves um you know the since Kennedy the all the seating is on one side of the field it's a little bit longer about 283 feet with a Press Box on top we did of course look at what the height limitations were and we do have some height limitations in this area of the city and that's 40 feet uh what they're proposing to the top of the uh Press Box is about 30 and A2 fet so we are in compliance in terms of total height and here we have all the I just mentioned this sort talked about the the the parking on site you know we have a variety of parking areas you know the pond Center is immediately to the north and has a nice walkway uh to the between you know walk past the tennis courts to the stadium area and so the school district believes that this is more than sufficient parking to meet the need of uh the new stadium nonetheless we still have to address the code requirement and that's why the proof of parking was uh identified and there's also some street parking available uh certainly not on Nicolet or east 98 but uh within the the neighborhood you know at the time of a of a lacrosse or football or a track meet you know these these may be options for folks we cannot count them towards the parking requirement but nonetheless we we should at least acknowledge that it is available um off you know uh on outside of school hours interesting that all the items on the agenda tonight had a noise component that's not very common um but obviously with the stadiums it's there's Amplified sound there's uh potentially marching band there's crowd noise noise is a is a legitimate and significant concern for for folks in in the community and so that's something that was uh at the center of the review was would the uh would the noise that's generated from this use meet the city's uh limitations and it's not just the city's limitations they actually the states which we have uh essentially mirrored in City coat and so for you know we have these these two me these two limits L L10 and l50 and it's a little it's a little difficult to explain but you know the the L10 level is a sound level expressed in DBA which is exceeded 10% of the time in a one-hour survey and similarly for the l50 it's the level which has exceeded 50% of the time for a onehour survey so we are not the standards do not relate to Peak so if you think give an example of a football game as's a big play gets really loud that's going to be a peak so it's obviously going to be much louder than what the L10 and the l50 are but that's not the L10 and the l50 so there this really important distinction and so one of the reasons for the delay initially was for the school district to uh find a sound engineer or sound Acoustics firm to prepare a noise study and they did so and submitted their their report which is in was included in your package and what they found was based on uh their modeling that they did uh the stadium at Kennedy would be compliant with uh the noise standards for daytime uh it would not be for nighttime so it's it's it's pivotal that all activities end before 10 p.m. the last graphic was the L10 this is the l50 and again uh the the properties that are most impacted are the properties on the east side of Third Avenue uh but based on the sound the Acoustics firm model uh it would be code complying for the l50 level probably the other major concern was related to lighting and initially the school district had uh you know very sophisticated lighting system uh that's used for for athletic events but it had what they called ball tracker which had an uplet fixture that essentially lit up the sky for when balls are higher up in the air great idea but not permitted in the city uh because it it contributes to glare light pollution and it's not something that we that we allow here um so that was a a significant turn again totally legitimate concern the school district has removed those uplet fixtures and so now the in terms of the lighting fixtures themselves uh they would be compliant um that's not the whole story though because we also have to worry about what the lighting level is actually on the ground not so much on the field surface this is what's called a photometric plan where the numbers on the field are uh the amount of light on the ground in a a foot candle and so you obviously want to have consistent significant light on the field surface but you don't want to have any light across the street uh at someone's home and so that's something that we wanted to review too so you can see the two this F4 and F3 those are the light PES themselves there's Third Avenue and so we uh had them include what the allow or what the light is model to be and with LED technology this tends to be really accurate and what they're showing is again code complying uh along the E side of Third Avenue so the highest level anticipated is about 39. 39 the allowance is 0.5 you know I'd love to work with the applicant to get that to almost zero so we'll see what we can do U but what they are showing is compliance and so with that we are recommending approval uh we're not reviewing the eaw uh that was something the council reviewed and determined on Monday but we are reviewing the final site and building plans and so we do have uh conditions of approval uh and staff is recommending approval thank you for that um for general information the0 five foot candle standard what would the average person equate that amount of light to charot it's not much at all I should have brought my light meter um for I wish I would have that that's m home too um I would say that the the amount of the foot candles that are on the surface right now are probably 40 50 even maybe even more than that so it's it's imperceptible frankly thank you questions for staff commissioner gozman thank you chair um thank you um one of the questions I had is in our previous discussion on this topic we talked about crosswalks um can you talk a little bit about what plans there are with crosswalks from the neighborhoods specifically um looking at Old Shaka um or some of the other surrounding neighborhoods to make sure that if people are parking in the street they can get to the stadium safely I'm wondering if we could have someone from our public works department thank you Julie engineer long is with us commissioner um commissioner um chair commissioner I'm apparently out of practice um with regard to crosswalks we have received Federal funding for a crosswalk across um East Old chaki Road between Stevens and first and we just got authorization from fhwa last week to bid the project um so we're expecting to bid it at the end of June and it would have an rrfb one of those rapid flashing beacons to assist um the community in its use and Crossing safely and we're hoping all the students behind me take note please use it um um to help cross safely so and for point of reference that's roughly under the E on East Old Shaka Road up there um sure roughly depending on which e you're referring to the one that's been pasted on East Old chak oh oh yeah I'm a little slow tonight the capital E yeah me too does that answer your question thank you thank you commissioner alre thank you chair miss long I have an additional question apologies I know I think it was at a payment management or something along those lines we talked about a crosswalk further east East kind of where That Sidewalk Ends or the extension of that sidewalk or something along those lines for sake of information would you provide what we talked about that time um chair com commissioner alch you are remembering it correctly we talked about it in relationship to the project I just mentioned because as staff we struggled to figure out where the best location to get the most compliance with this crosswalk would be so we had set up C ceras um to see what the actual behavior of the uh Walkers W were and we found that while that that is where the sidewalk kind of ends and now I'm quoting poetry it's a beautiful poem go read it um it um isn't where people are actually Crossing so and we felt that Third Avenue was close enough that most people while they don't want to be inconvenience to walk out of their uh path they would be willing to walk and cross at third and that's why we ended up in that weird space between first and Stevens thank you other questions for staff commissioner Curry thank you chair um can you remind me what are the speed limits going to be for these roads after the new speed plan is implemented those are unchanged because it's a County Road correct still be 35 for old SHP it's a county road so we don't have jurisdiction but Third Avenue or or nicholet um chair commissioner Curry nicholet is also a County Road um north of old Chaka Road um south of old Chaka Road it is a city road um I correct me if I'm wrong U Mr Roberts but I believe that will be changing to 25 nope apparently 30 want a friend I don't have the map memorize sorry Mr chairman and Commissioners and I'm happy to talk about speed limits uh we roll those out so yeah as noted uh Nicollet Avenue and Old chaky Road are both under jurisdiction of hanin County so the speed limits on those will stay the same until the county receives authorization from the state to start changing their old speed limits if they do Third Avenue is a local street that will go to 25 M hour here in about 30 days um that will be unsigned as with all the the local streets Nicollet Avenue south of bshock if he has a city road that will be at 30 miles an hour as well I think right now it's currently at 35 that will go to 30 miles an hour so okay and then I understand my understanding is with the parking um the proof of parking is not actually being implemented we are leveraging if you will uh neighboring streets for parking for the football stadium um are there any other plans to um modify I don't know striping or any sort of safety features any sort of enhancements to the roads or the sidewalks uh besides the single crosswalk Mr chairman commissioner Curry so one of the nice things about these stadiums is that they are they operating they're going into areas where we to have really good um pedestrian amenities lighting and things like that because remember they get about 3,000 uh cars in and out of here every day all through the winter months uh in those dark months and so most of the infrastructure to to move people around is already there um we're adding the crosswalk as city engineer long mentioned and so we'll continue to monitor the areas we do with all of our school areas and make those modifications as necessary but with the addition of the stadiums um we're not aware of any new issues that will be created in terms of pedestrian circulation vehicle circulation that we need to address at this time but we'll continue to monitor that as we always do and to further enhance that response um with the speed limit work that Mr Roberts and his team are undertaking they are looking at um initially starting three school zones um Kennedy is not one of our first three but it is high on our list um for future upcoming years we're going to keep um knocking them off so in a few years the uh school speed zone will be likely in this area related to that I know it's a little bit off topic but it's could be relevant um does the county have a process by which where we can by which by where we can ask them also to consider a school speed zone because again jurisdiction Mr chairman it's a good question we the code uh language that the Planning Commission approved last month and that went to council for approval does authorize the city to establish school zone speed limits on County roads in cooperation with the county there's certain Provisions uh that we have to comply with so they might not be the 20 mph speed zones that we'll have in our other school areas but yes we will be establishing school zone speed limits on Old Shak Road and Nicollet Avenue said so if we use the remember there were several options there if we use the flashing Beacon option we may be able to acate that during an event like this we're waiting um for legal to review that the language that I reviewed in state law is um restricts it to school activities what that includes will be a question for legal to sort out over time thank you other questions for staff commissioner Curry sorry couple of followups on that so uh so then I I think I noted that in the plan that there's uh non-c concurrence or won't have multiple events at the same time as part of a or as a a condition uh and maybe this is a question for the applicant but um I think there was some discussion before about not hosting potentially Regional events at the stadium is that under consideration tonight or chair Commissioners the that's what was identified by the applicant uh as staff we're not proposing any conditions that tried to regulate that necessarily and so be the assurances of the school district okay thank you other questions for staff okay uh would the applicant like to speak on this item you go ahead and introduce yourself and then hi Paul lowski with W AR and Engineers we've been helping the district with this application we don't have any presentation um the Planning Commission has seen all of this before with the exception of the sound report I did want to let you know that we have the sound engineer on online if you have questions for them um and I'll proact on that conversation a little bit I know that I was here last year talking about how we couldn't meet the sound requirements um and we actually intended if you remember when we left to uh go try to get a variance from the mpca and we were pleasantly surprised Uris to find that when the sound engineer did their analysis that we could come into compliance um we did modify the project and the speaker and the sound systems a little bit to make that work out um but we're confident now with this analysis that we're able to do that so with that we'll just um see if there's any questions questions for the applicant commissioner cookton thanks Mr chair um so if I'm sort of understanding how you've gotten your noise to fit a little bit you're basically focusing those speakers as such to hit the limit of where you can be so so do you feel like your speaker system is going to be loud enough or have you compromised Your Design to fit code um I I I think we're going to make a system that works well for the district um and the part of The Proposal is to have a limiter on the system to address any concerns that might come up in the future other questions commissioner Curry thank you chair yeah can you just give a high level of what are the changes in the sound system to support the compliance um I actually might defer to Kevin he may know a little bit more about it than me but um it there wasn't many uh it's the speakers are still located on the bleachers as they were before um at the Kennedy site they're really on one side of the thing because of the um the bleachers are all on one side and then again it we are recommending that there be a limiting device put into the system so that it can be controlled if needed to Kevin Patterson did you have anything to add can you all hear me okay Kevin Patterson on the line yes uh chair Commissioners yeah I'll I'll elaborate on that response a little bit um so as uh Mr centenario pointed out there are two noise code terms that he very eloquently um defined for us um specifically regarding the L10 value which is again the sound level that is exceeded 10% of the time in a 1 hour measurement is sometimes referred to as a don't Define it as a maximum because it's not a maximum but sometimes it's referred to as a louder sound level in the 1 hour period um all we really suggested to the low voltage a team is that we put a limiter such that you know when the when someone scores a touchdown and the commentator screams into the microphone yay you know touch down everyone's excited um that the maximum sound level that the sound system can produce doesn't exceed a certain level so when that happens that those in a 1 hour period that 6 minutes of time um that we do not exceed that L10 value that's really the extent of what this limiter is going to do it's really kind of chopping off the highest highs and could you share um how is that monitored where is that monitor are there sensors on different parts of the on some of the light posts that are on the opposite side how how does that uh is that monitor is that just uh wish and Hope on the Goodwill of whoever is running the sound uh this is a little bit beyond my perview but my understanding is that it's an electronic limiter it basically limits the maximum voltage that is applied to the speakers themselves so it does require a little bit of tuning to match the design in our acoustic report um but it basically any input from the sound board won't exceed a certain voltage Vol value and then when it's tuned to an actual acoustic pressure level and tuned I mean just you play that sound level and make sure that it matches the acoustic model that we put together um it doesn't matter how much input you put into the sound system this limiter electronic liit limiter excuse me will not allow the speakers to produce any higher of a sound level sure I'm just trying to figure out how that fits into other uh components that generate sound as well and if that was some active monitoring or real time modulation that took into account um Stadium noise band noise etc etc which are things that we've heard and so you're saying it's not it's just about the speakers themselves yeah it's it's only a control measure for the loudspeakers themselves okay thank you uh commissioner Gman thank you chair um I guess my question was really around the things that you can't control and how that came into the the sound study um specifically you've got halftime marching band show right 20 minutes of Music being played uh you can't uh dampen it it's it's loud so how does that play into the the sound study and and how it fits within um the the values that you're showing here so there's a couple things going on there um the first of which is again going back to our noise metrics I'll defer to the l50 um so again over a 1H hour period which is how the l50 is defined um is the sound level that is not exceeded or or is the sound level excuse me that is exceeded for a 30 minute period so you're talking about a 20 minute um performance with 10 minutes maybe five minutes on either side of that call it of um relative silence and then you get back to the game so it's only a small piece of that l50 and there's some kind of intermittent shuffling of okay what happens next um around that um and then um boy I lost my train of thought oh and then the other part of that is typically while the band is playing the crowd is relatively quiet you're not screaming and shouting during the performance and you don't have the loudspeakers blaring during the performance so it's also considering the frequency of use you don't have all three sound sources going maximum volume all at the same time is the other component of that you other questions for the applicant commissioner alre uh thank you chair I think we've heard a lot about football um my question is related to what is the field particularly for this site being used for currently Are there games being played are there Spectators is that a normal occurrence already at this site hi I'm John Anderson activities director candy High School uh we current Curr uh football primarily uses as their main practice field after school we currently on weekends will play some varsity soccer games uh for both boys and girls uh we have in the past hosted track meets some small triangulars with uh about three schools and we play lower Lev football games and some Varley lacrosse games we do have a currently have a small set of stands there that I believe the capacity is 488 and we've never gotten close to that number of 4 88 in there already so uh in terms of a Sil system we have a little essentially portable s system that I roll up with a cart from the shed that we would use for those games so we do currently use that field uh for some varsity competitions um we've only ever played one varsity football game there in the history of school and that was during the co season of 2020 when we had those 10 inches of snow in the late season that we had to play in that field so that's what we currently use it for if I and and point question a football halftime is only 15 minutes um in high school you can't get an extended one for 20 minutes but that's us for for homecoming when you're doing coronation stuff about half that so thank you I have one more question for you you may be the expert here um ballpark what is the highest attendance you think you've seen at Lincoln for I assume a a Kennedy football game uh the the highest point in the last six years years we were which was the last time we hosted Jefferson uh and we were at 1,500 I believe and any of our attendants in the subsequent years near that has not been close to that number we average about um trying to remember back to that sheet I put together for the ten months we're about 500 or so for a game thank you yep other questions for the applicant commissioner Curry I guess thank you chair I will ask uh yeah so I think there was discussion last time about hosting Regional events and some concern and um where does the uh the school district stand on that today with I don't know have they agreed to something internally or what's the plan there uh I think I can speak for myself uh and for the school district when we say we don't plan on hosting any additional events that we don't already host already you know from time to time depending on our seed in sectional playoffs we may be called upon to host a game we have hosted sectional football playoff games in the past I know Jefferson hosted one at Lincoln this year we hosted one at Lincoln last year uh our attendance for those games haven't been any greater than they would normally be uh and we so we're not going to we don't we're not looking to add additional events than we would potentially host already and we hosted a sectional uh soccer game on that site this fall already thank you other questions for the applicant okay seeing none um this item is a public hearing we did have a speakers register at the door I have a list of names that I will call in order on the register um I do note that there was an item on here that just says students without names I'm not able to call so if there is um desire for specific students who would like to register um you would need to do that over there and again this is for the Kennedy Stadium item so I'm going to apologize if I um can't read handwriting or if my um English skills are Rusty but the first uh speaker on the list is Terry Delah Commissioners thank you for your time my name is Terry Del I live at 137 he you I live at 137 East 98 Street AKA old Shaka Road um my concern is the inadequate parking um as it relates to the to this and also relates to other events that occur at Kennedy um the postage stamp lot that you have just is not adequate for parking um and I'm my concern is multiple events two or three events two weeks ago two weekends ago you had there they had um three events going on there was event at the the field and then in the EV event uh um in the auditorium a dance contest or recital something close to near and dear to my granddaughter um and then a volleyball or basketball tournament and it was kind of Mayhem going on um I clicked a few shots if you want to see them but I had people parking in front of my um my my uh uh driveway people close to parking too close to stop signs people close to um uh fire hydrants then there was lot there's this is G and I've been here for 30 years i' so I've seen this thing come around and it's getting worse and um we've just got to put a kabash at multiple uh events going at this this site here we're not like a third and fourth t uh here exer like East View Apple Valley Rosemont Lakeville North and South it's they're much larger venues um so that we had and then also the people parking um they do this all the time park on the grass just park right up on the grass it's it's people are frustrated these people are coming in from um outside the state out outstate and outside the state the individual who parked in my spot was in front of my place was from Nebraska there's a large con contingency from Nebraska and it's great because these people like this because we've got one thing that the other people don't other avenues don't that's the Mall of America and when they see that they're coming here they want to go to Mall of America it's located close which is great it's great great venue for that but um we just don't have adequate parking for multiple events so if you want to do that you either have to eliminate some green space put up a parking ramp or worse just bulldoze the school and have an event place that's what you want to do the other the other thing is to uh maybe think outside the box and shut wrap up your comments we're at three minutes okay you can finish your your sentence that's go ahead so yeah um any help would be would be great um I have no problem with having events it's just multiple events thank you thank you next on the list is John Anderson hi again John Anderson activities director lifelong Bloomington resident uh I got to count up my numbers very binary 1 001 10th Avenue South um I've been involved in ban Sports literally my whole life from the time I played baa all the way through high school then as a coach now as an activities director um it has been our Dream to have stadiums at the high school and the impact that it could have on our communities our school communities as well as the east and west side of Bloomington creating centers where we can gather you know not having to transport and move our students four miles or a couple miles away off campus the ability to build events and build culture and increase the student experience for our student athletes and our student populations uh would be massive for our schools you know um I encourage you to move this project forward we've obviously met the the standards and everything we've been asked to meet um and we're our students are very excited for this possibility to have this this Stadium right here where we can have events right there where we can have host football games soccer games lacrosse you know track meets uh all those things that our students want to be involved with but struggle if you look at our parking lot during the school day we don't have the same amount of students who are driving to school as we once did you know nearly 30 years ago when I graduated you know our our population don't get the licenses they once did so having things that our students can get uh can get to and readily attend would be a massive in uh upgrade for our student populations at both schools so thank you thank you next on the list is Whitney ly hi thank you um I live at 8936 Vincent Circle um which for those that don't have a map in their brain of Bloomington is about a Stones Throw from Lincoln Stadium right now um I just like everybody else in the community work really hard um I don't like a nuisance um at night I want to sit out on my patio and just relax and what I can tell you is that um it has never ever once been a problem whatsoever living as close as we do to the Lincoln Stadium right now um small sound muffles um low lights I actually had to text a friend of mine and say do they have a marching band during football games because I've never heard one um in fact the muffled sounds that we do hear is incredibly Pleasant and lovely and it really allows us to feel closer to the community and so I also just want to say that I very much support moving forward with both stadiums um I think it would be good for the children I think it will be good for the athletes and for our community as well thank you thank you next on our list is Lindsay fry Palmquist hello Lindsay Frey Palmquist I live at 10211 Johnson Circle um I think that it's really respon it's important to do this responsibly um and part of that I think mitigation is super important um I can't really talk about birds today so I'm going to talk about responsible use um noise is important because there are currently no usage conditions for this uh they could be used for over 40 school games which was in our correspondence with the superintendent it could also be used for regional events as was talked about today and uh the sound systems for the louds speakers and lights could potentially be used every single day for practices if people wanted to play music on the speakers while they did that there are no conditions set for this at present um in November we heard all of us here many times from uh the applic that it would be impossible to comply with the sound ordinances at the residential property lines um and they would need a variance so it was a surprise to the neighbors and we had a lot of questions when a study appeared on April 3rd that showed compliance by one decel point um according to Lauren Dickerson from the mpca currently both schools have air quality permits which means the mpca is the regulatory Authority for enforcing noise standards should violations be committed in code 73.3 Z Bloomington as the municipality must take all reasonable measures within its jurisdiction to prevent noise violations that may occur immediately upon the establishment of land use we believe that the study that venoc claen provided is incomplete um we have consulted with two Professionals in Acoustics and Sound Engineering and they identified the following issues and questions the actual data and assumptions used to calculate the geometry of the model were not provided one sound professional told me this is standard scientific practice and he never seen a study that doesn't include this I have asked for that six times and I was I have the dates and things but I don't have time to tell you about that um there also was the use of hemispherical spreading of sound without reflection of calculated off of buildings terrain or homes um in the figure in the Jefferson one where it is only one deciel of compliance uh reflection off of that house would ordinarily Compound on itself with the director the original direction from the sound and add three debels which would put that at 67 which is over the L10 number so we have a lot of questions about these and we would like to be able to examine that data just to see how they achieve that result um van Clon also used ISO 9613 as part of its methodology which it listed in a report and a letter it provided um and a predictor Lima software by Soft noise um that could and does have the capability to use terrain building reflectivity and Direction and I'm not understanding why they didn't use a 3D model for that um when it would show the terrain and the reflections off of all of the buildings and I feel like we would have a better understanding of where they got to with that um and then on May 7 May 2nd at a boys soccer game we just took measures with a sound meter of our own for 15 minutes and recorded 65 to 80 DB near the property line and we felt like that was more than the applicant has done at this point thank you the uh next name on the list is Katherine Babcock I'm Katherine Babcock I live at 3:15 East Old chapi Road good evening there are two codes that we think are still being um that we'd like you to look at one is um that they haven't resolved as the parking code it's um city code 23010 6 by the way I'm not here to stop the stadiums I'm here to help build a more responsible stadium and the parking code 21. 30106 this talks about traffic safety it talks about uh spillover conflicts it talks about minimizing the degradation and it talks about Pro promoting traffic traffic safety and accessibility for um emergency vehicles in these tight neighborhoods um the second one is a light code on the plans that you're about to approve and we don't have this could just be an oversight with the Architects but we have we still have a TLC BT 575 which is a ball tracker which is an uplighting point it's still on the plans so if you're approving plans tonight you should should know that that's still on the plans also still on the plans is TLC rgbw which is a flashing light which also violates a city ordinance that city ordinance is in lighting and it is lighting 21301 Dash number three so that you have both of those as ordinances that need to be addressed for the plans that you are about to approve if you do approve them um secondly um we're looking for some mitigation uh from the school district uh installing plants and trees that provide an ecosystem that Services the current local Wildlife populations something that also helps to buffer the noise buffer The View but for the site uh we're looking for Mitigation Of Sound possibly by reducing Stadium capacity to more realistic numbers the stadium is proposed could be outsized based on the current attendance 500 fans at the Kennedy Stadium we're talking about 500 seats going to 2,500 seats so we don't even reach that NE necessity so mitigate through Stadium capacity uh we're looking for um a proof of parking in Kennedy that's going to remove an acre of turf of Playing Fields I would hate to see the kids lose an acre of Playing Fields behind there um that's Green Turf that's healthy area for for all of our student athletes uh the conditional use permit that the neighbors are asking for is a good faith um signature between the schools and a neighborhood commission that this the school district will indeed use it for what they say they're going to use it for which is making um the nighttime Stadium more tolerable to surrounding neighbors so it doesn't become a public nuisance um residents are aware of the common law I think that your former city council member or no city council former City attorney um made that clear and then based on a facility only intended for regional purposes the concurrent use agreement does not address this using it only for um School events for Bloomington school events is something that we would ask for in a com conditional use permit at some point ask you to wrap your comments your three minutes is expired okay thanks at some point the city needs to address how the school rents out property for profit in an R1 neighborhood Zone which I don't believe is legal thank you do we have any additional people sign up at the door you go ahead and come forward and uh introduce yourself I don't have the updated roster umer for Jefferson oh this is the Kennedy one right now I know that but um it's important that I speak and you can introduce yourself at the microphone so that people can hear it appeals it it's for both first of all I attended the meeting uh just a couple of days there you go my my name is Debbie Jacobson um I've lived in Bloomington for probably 70 years now and um I very concerned about what has happened I would like to retain the status quo um for any or all of the stadiums um what I would like to see is a moratorium for probably the next 10 10 years and maybe um a million dollar Bond so that if the houses are sold um and they go down 5% that they'll be restored and reimbursed and then if if the the four items that are covered the noise the pollution um all of the different parking instances damage to the environment if they're not satisfied what what I'd like to see is that the stadium if it does get approved would be deplatformed and that the Minnesota people from Bloomington would not have to pay extra taxes or extra fees for restoring the land to the way it was I know that laws are passed with all without all of the information uh at at present available things change laws change I know right now we're dealing with probabilities they talk about modeling but modeling is no more than an estimate it's it's um they use it a lot in science and engineering in fact the atom uh they just saw what an atom looks like and it was like in the 50s that it was discovered and they did it by modeling and probability things are abstract and then they become less experimental as they become real um I just want to bring up an analogous thing that happened recently which was quite nice to hear there was a 92-year-old woman who went to the Supreme Court after going through the district and appell it all the way up into the courts and it was a different type of thing that happened to her it was regarding a property value she didn't pay her taxes or her fees she was delinquent they took her property and then she said they never got they never gave a penny back and as a result she thought she had to fight it she felt it was unfair and she wanted to work um to get it resolved well this year the governor just announced probably when it was in session that they were going to have to redo the code uh for something that was approved by nine justices in the Supreme Court and that there would be restitution for all the people that had lost their properties as a result of of um not paying the money that was due I'd ask you to wrap up your comments okay so um a summary statement is I'd like to see a moratorium I'd like I'd like to see some provision if the four things that come into um thank you okay thank you can I say one more thing oh your time has expired do we have anyone else um on the list for the Kenedy and then is there anyone online for this item chair Roman Chair Roman everybody online in City staff okay um One Last Call for anyone on the Kennedy Stadium agenda item seeing none I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing so moved second thank you we have a motion and a second to close the public hearing discussion in favor say I I I oppose motion passes the public hearing is closed um before we begin discussion um can we go back to the slide that talked about the four uh findings and I guess we got the we've got the four findings and we've got the pyramid and so I think the um these two slides I asked staff to make sure we had available for us because I think it is important to remind ourselves as Commissioners and when when we start on this body we are drilled about the Pyramid of discretion uh and I think there are times when we have more and there are times we have less and that's why I think the slide is important and um you know I regardless of any of our individual op opinions about children or chickies or Charities or anything else that starts with a CH we don't have a lot of choice here we have our choice is our our job is to review these four findings review the materials that the staff have presented here what we heard from the public um about how those may or may not um be another eye and another view of the reading of the materials and those findings and so as we have this conversation I'd encourage uh remind the commission that that is our scope and um you know I will make a couple of comments based on some of the things that we heard um you know we heard something some comments about multiple events um this application does not bleed into other school activities but it does call out for this use that there will not be multiable events um we also heard um some questions about um emergency vehicles navigating streets um should clarify with the staff there was a comment about the uplights and flashing lights and I thought that the presentation indicated those have been re removed but it sounds like possibly that may not be accurate in the materials sure certainly chair Commissioners yeah that the the comment was correct that in the packet that that light fixture was uh included there was a communication between the applicant design team and the lighting designer uh but after the packet was published they have since removed that fixture so I guess I I could provide my own assurance that that uh as written in the condition uh a permit for the stadium would not be issued uh with that like fixture on it because that light fixture is not code compliant okay um and then I think you know our our traffic and Engineering staff is is very on top of um some of those issues around schools I think it is a reasonable question about um the proof of parking then we have a slide that talks about options for the street so I think there may need to be some review of one side parking during events I'm not sure what that might be but I think that's a reasonable thing for us to look at because I think people will remember at the last meeting I talked about my experience is that our our traffic and our our traffic control at our schools is horrendous during on a regular day let alone on an event when you have people who are not there on a regular basis um I know noticed in the packet that it sounds like we have a usually have one supervisor and four officers at events at Kennedy they at Lincoln and so um that will help um those are my initial observations based on the things I heard from the public and I wanted to cover those things before we moved into discussion as is the privilege of the chair so discussion commissioner Albert uh thank you Mr chair coincidentally um my youngest cousin has been competing in the section lacrosse tournament so I have actually visited six stadiums in the past three weeks um so I was very keen on looking at all of them and having a good sense of what time it is and what the lighting is and all of that setting all of that aside because it's really not about individual opinions on our on our perview it's not really what we're here to do um I look at these findings and I believe that the findings have been met um the highlighted finding number four uh regarding injures you know we've talked about injures at in this body quite a bit um because this is the sticky one that always if uh someone from the public um comes then this is the one that maybe is most misunderstood and I think uh Mr centenario did a great job with describing it at the beginning and the onset here um I don't think that given the information that has been provided um the conditions that are included with the staff report um regarding the final sign off once uh the final plans are put together uh I believe that these findings overall have been made uh and I am in support of approving this project commissioner gozman thank you chair um the thing I have to say obviously this has been a long road um and I feel that we've done our due diligence as a city as a school district as a community to look at all of the variables of how this could impact um our residents and our uh neighbors and our um our community um looking at the different variables that could be impacted by these findings um you know we we have completed a noise study there it's it's a scientific analysis obviously there are people that are much smarter than I am doing that that noise study um but it has been done um and has been found to be compliant to the best of our knowledge um looking at light I love that with current technology that we can make better use of light light um in in our spaces I'm thinking about even 20 years ago LEDs were not as uh prevalent it would be much brighter and I think a lot more sensitive to light as we were before and I I'm just appreciative that we have the technology to to really make it usable space but also safe for um our residents but also the wildlife that live and migrate through our neighborhoods um I am really appreciative of our our traffic and um uh Engineers on looking at how can we mitigate you know safety concerns for people that are walking and as well as driving to this location um the new crosswalk on um between Stevens and first I think is going to be a great addition not just for this this um Stadium but for the school um as a whole um and and so looking at the things that we've done as a community to mitigate that harm um I think outweigh um the harm that could potentially be um I don't see that um you know looking at this application there's so much benefit and there's really very little harm as that can be mitigated um prevalent so I'll be supportive commiss not commissioner sorry senior planner sario one of the things I forgot to ask about was um does a development like this um does have requirements for trees shrubs Foundation plantings things of that nature chair Commissioners uh traditionally know uh the commission could always consider code amendments uh to require um Landscaping I mean based on the size of the and the scope it would be significant um so but that is you know the if the the commission wants to add that to work plan item there's not a current performance standard for that no there is okay thank you commissioner cookton thank you Mr chair so as I look at this and the the items that have gotten the most attention the lighting and the sound um I think what I fall back on is that we have professional designers who have looked at this and we have professional architects who have put together the documents and also Professional Engineers who have also put together their documents and sound experts have been brought upon and put their name on a report that says this is what I believe as an expert in sound and I as a planning commissioner don't have any expertise um that would give me any ability to say no Mr sound engineer you you're wrong I I don't have that ability and so I I fall back on and trust their expertise that they've done their due diligence and put their professional reputation and signature behind this and I'm inclined to believe their report is accurate and so then it comes down to the findings and as I briefly look through these findings um I do not believe this development is in conflict with the comprehensive plan I don't believe it's in conflict with an adopted District plan I don't believe there is one here um there's no city code Provisions or state laws that it's violating and so the fourth one about being injurious to the surrounding neighborhood if you think about you know the spirit of that when it relates to noise when we've had noise um applications come before us what we've really looked hard at are things like industrial facilities that are emitting some sort of noise 247 and if you're in violation of that that can be seriously injurious to a neighbor or something like that in in this case not only do we have a sound report that that that states that it won't exceed code I I don't believe um the these events which are fairly few and far between if you're talking about maximum football games if as we talked about those Peak volumes May exceed a certain Threshold at some point when Kennedy scores a touchdown but a few times a year with that I don't believe is injurious to the surrounding neighborhood so for that reason I can make all four findings and we'll be supporting this application question thank you chair um you know I guess I generally I'm supportive I mean I'm looking at all the different High School football stadiums in South Metro Area Southwest metro area and everything is you know there's houses right across the street um generally I kind of look at what's been presented and think I don't know how much I trust the study that's been done but that if everybody else already has these things in place I don't know you know why this would be any different than what's already kind of been set as a precedent by other cities in the area so and like commissioner cookton said you know it there's no it doesn't uh seem to go against the comprehensive plan so um you I guess I think it's something that makes sense [Music] I think uh for me I I'm very much aligned with the thoughts that commissioner cookton had around the findings um do I believe that this change is disruptive it's sure it's it's different it's it will bring a different type of traffic it will bring a different type of noise um it will bring a different uh impact to the neighborhood than there is today that is a true that is very true and I think we've heard that from the people who live closest to this facility um but again the threshold is injurious and um the good example I can think of is you know when we we had a data center uh that we were asked to review and the we asked I don't if we asked for a sound study or one was presented with it and it clearly didn't work and uh we said no we sent it back and they I remember what they changed but some stuff was changed and we even looked at we even looked at you know your winter sound because we know sound is different in the winter in Minnesota um and so I think we we have been pretty consistent and intentional on sound and you know whether or not any one of us feels confidence in in in the information we're given I think is it's up to us to decide but I think that you know I I am in line with the things that other Commissioners have um identified I think it would be great if the school um could put some thought into again we don't have standards we can't require but you you know I don't know if it's Shrubbery along third if it's shrubs if it's trees I don't know what it is um but I think again it's good for the city it's good for students it's good for the environment um something to soften some of that would be great uh but I don't again to the extent of what I'm allowed to weigh in on as a commissioner I I believe this has met the materials we've been provided meet the meet the requirements commissioner alre thank you chair I just wanted to add one more comment I did watch the city council meeting from Monday um long wasn't it it was long it was long um but it was informative and I really appreciated some of the council members uh thoughts around uh the parking to the north on this side uh the pond site the pond Center site um and so my one sort of more personal suggestion to the city that they would think about significant wayf finding um for that I had no idea the parking lot was there now I don't have a kid in high school so I don't frequent kened um however I think some wayfinding uh around the parking so that uh people are not choosing to park on the streets and there are some off-site parking or off street parking I think would be a really good nod to the neighborhood uh and so I know that was mentioned at the city council meeting I really appreciated that thought and wanted to add that as well any further discussion commissioner gozman if I may I'd like to make a motion um I think you could thank you chair in case p2023 d157 having been able to make the required findings I move to approve final site and building plans for site and Stadium improvements to the Kennedy High School athletic campus subject to the conditions and code requirements attached to the staff report second thank you we have a motion and a second to approve final sight and building plans at the subject property any further discussion seeing none all those in favor say I I I opposed the motion carries this is a final decision unless an appeal is received at City Hall by 4:30 p.m. on June 11th the next item is final site and building plans for state and sight improvements at Jefferson High School and Senior planner centenario with the Encore thank you chair and Commissioners I'll try not to be redundant a lot of the same elements concerns and again discussion about the findings apply to this as well so I won't repeat myself but now we're shifting gears to uh the Jefferson High School site again the the timeline is the same the applications came in at the same time uh and followed the same uh path uh to where we are today again we are reviewing a a final s and building plan which is much lower on the discretion pyramid as other applications so the existing conditions uh at Jefferson I have again the the football field or the stadium area outlined in red it's used for track and field soccer lacrosse as well as football and uh similar to your last application not much physically would change uh in terms of the campus uh the the stadium would still be accessed via Heritage Hills Drive or Johnson Avenue from 102nd Street and in this particular case as I'll show in a moment uh when we think of it as a campus we do include the Olsen schools and the capacity the parking capacity that's on those sites as well another image that was put together by the applicant team uh just in a a two-dimensional graphic you see the the football field with new Turf Lighting and Sound System uh in this case is a little bit different given the characteristics of the site the home bleachers would be on the west and then the uh away bleachers would be on the east side of the of the stadium more of a traditional um way to organize it with very little other changes to the site you know there this is a bit of a bowl uh its Topography is a bit of a bowl and in order to have an entrance area uh there has to be a fair amount a long uh sidewalk to accomodate folks with disabilities and so need need to make sure that that's still an accessible uh an accessible stadium and here is the stadium elevation again because the home and the away bleachers are separated uh the home bleachers are a little bit smaller uh than at Kennedy uh but again the total capacity is the same uh 2500 I've outlin the uh surface parking areas uh within the school campus you know there's quite a bit within the the Jefferson High School campus specifically there is some overflow parking immediately to the west of Johnson Avenue that you can see here and then there's a there's a a tremendous amount of parking at Olsen it's not the most convenient to be sure uh but it is available and uh you you know for folks that don't mind walking a little bit it it is a good option just another image uh here you can kind of better see what that sidewalk looks like you have your entrance area on the North End of the site but then you have you have to have a longer sidewalk given the the topography change and this is just an image of the existing and the proposed conditions uh you can see from what's there today uh there are some bleachers on on the site but very few uh and then what is proposed uh you know the 2,000 occupancy bleachers on the west side and then 500 on the East but you can also see that very little else is changing on site similar to Kennedy there there are some uh accommodations for on street parking uh you know again France Avenue 102nd Street uh on street parking is not permitted but within the neighborhood there is some uh allowances for that and so presumably some of that would be utilized from folks if there's a high occupancy event not sure if it's necessarily needed or if it's more convenient uh we don't count it towards the parking requirement uh but again I think it's worth noting that that would be available again we uh dealt with sound and in this case the most impacted property from a sound perspective is a residential home to the southwest of the stadium and uh again the applicant applicant consultant modeled this both for an L10 and an l50 level and was found to be compliant uh both from the L10 and the l50 again that's for daytime uh using the daytime standards it would not be compliant for nighttime so again having all activities uh end before 10 p.m. is is critical to be to be within compliance and here is the uh model for the l50 level s similar issues with lighting uh the same light systems were used you had you know robust or four poles for the stadium robust uh LEDs uh fixtures on those poles the ball tracker system uh it's hasn't been permitted I don't imagine it will ever be permitted in the city of Bloomington given the the principles that we have in our lighting code uh so again you know what we have is a condition related to the lighting and really that it the light the permits could not be issued until the lighting plan is found to be compliant and similarly with the photometrics or the the ons surface lighting uh it's it's quite a bit less uh in what the plans that they're showing uh North is to the right so it's a different view but that same property that's most impacted by noise is also the closest for light too uh but the level that was identified in the model was 09t candle so almost zero so that's well within compliance in terms of a light trespass perspective and with that we are recommending approval uh subject to the conditions and code requirements attached to the staff report thank you questions for staff commissioner gozman thank you chair um Mr santario I noticed on the street parking uh slide on the east side of Johnson parking is permitted but not on the west can you talk a little bit about why is it Johnson yes Johnson Avenue South you see it one side of the street is permitted versus the others not how is that how is it signed or um how do residents know and and why is it different on one side of the street versus the other thank you commissioner I would love again to defer to our uh traffic experts Mr chairman commissioner goldsman there's a number of things that play there we work closely with a school on the parking around there with the school and with emergency service um and I don't know the specifics behind those um zones there they are signed um always um and most likely though it's because that parking allows proximity to something that people want to go to it's the closest place that they can allow it while still maintaining access for fire and emergency vehicles safety for sight distance at driveways and things like that um the the driveways that U serve the East there are fairly high volume and so it's not as surpris that you would want to restrict parking near those driveways so you don't have uh any any sort of sight conditions or um where kids could come out there's also a crosswalk there that's well used um we always make sure we restrict parking near those crosswalks to the extent possible so I don't know the specifics but those are the general criteria that we look into when we're thinking about those restrictions around school I think anecdotally I think that Loop uh drive to the east side of Olen Middle School I think it's a Bus Loop and so I imagine there some turning radius considerations and if I may have another question for staff on this just as it's been a topic this uh 102nd Street um Corridor uh is projected to have some changes coming up um Can can Steph talk a little bit about the proposed changes to the 102nd for safety speeding um and uh just general um updates just so the the residents here know what's happening commissioner goldsman appreciate the opportunity to speak on those changes that are forthcoming so as the uh Planning Commission recommended and the council approved uh we did uh forward a set of speed limit changes on larger roadways including 102nd Street between France and Normandale the most significant thing here is the speed will go from 35 to 30 and then we are working through the summer to implement school zones in front of the Olsen campus and the Jefferson campus that will be on 102nd Street uh France Avenue which is a henen county roadway uh and then as well as Johnson Avenue in the areas where uh kids are are coming and going or being picked up and dropped off um we'll also include one likely on France Avenue near Canterbury there's a well-used crosswalk and an overhead flashing Beacon right there too so that's probably going to get that same treatment so that's the near-term plans longer term that is still a four-lane section it is the only four-lane section of 102nd Street remaining um four-lane sections uh have some some good sides they also have some some troubles too um and so we will be approaching the city council um to do a study a longer term study to see what can be done to change that cross-section one other change I didn't mention Johnson Avenue will go to a 25 mph speed limit here in about 30 days that's the default speed limit for the city it's currently 30 it will go to 25 here over the next 30 days so watch for that as well and to clarify the school zone when it is implemented on the city controlled speeds streets will be 20 it will be 20 that's correct commissioner Curry thank you chair got questions for you uh sorry so you you can you go over those uh kind of maybe newer safety features or any um yeah what do we call it traffic calming anything that's being done in the area again um if you could be a little narrow that down a little bit more um in terms any plans to you know uh support safety in the area yeah so I think the biggest thing is is bringing that speed limit from 30 to 3 or from 35 to 30 as well as the school zone speed limits are the biggest and most significant changes and drivers will see that uh if all works well we'll have those in place by the start of the school year in Fall um we'll continue to to look at pedestrian in circulation and movements but um there's crosswalks existing and so these stadiums aren't going to add uh to the extent that we understand they're not going to add new Crossing points or things where we have to do a lot of remedial striping and signage work to make these stadiums work it's an area that's already pretty well covered with infrastructure uh for people on foot as well as Vehicles what would be your best guess as to the areas that are going to see the most what streets are going to see the most parking do you think it'd be north of 10 102nd or south of Heritage Hills or Mr chairman commissioner Curry it's a good question and it's it's a hard one to answer because it depends on the event uh and I the the range of events that we could see in these things go from very small to very large um right now there's a number of events that happen in the high school that generate parking on street parking north of 102nd Street in fact we see those uh we've seen that just a couple weeks ago uh cars were parked on the north side of 10 second Street for a large event at the school that's fairly um it's not infrequent but it it happens um with the stadium obviously the parking down Johnson Avenue in Heritage Hills is fairly close and so I could expect to see some parking there if it's not uh removed for other reasons for safety um just because it's in very close proximity uh as you as you move away I you know thinking about parking on the other side of France Avenue on the east side that's less likely just because the crossing of France Avenue and the distan involved there so if I were to just look at that that's what I'd think about okay and then um I was noticing in the comprehensive plan uh there's a safe routes to schools Network that the city's planning on expanding are there any plans for that uh for Jefferson High School at all or the or Olsen Mr chairman commissioner Curry there the Jefferson and Olsson will be included in the safe routes the school plan they already are under a safe rout of schools plan this would get us into more detail looking at specific walking Loc locations walking routes and things like that so that work continues frankly the work on school areas never really stops we're always reaching out to school staff and working on those routes to get people to and from school so what is the expectation on when that is going to be done uh as soon as we can receive funding on that so we don't have a specific timeline we continue to search for funding for the planning and for the implementation got it right now the focus is mainly on the speed limits that program often times will identify a specific project the school in the city will apply for a grant and you you check one off got it it's a long and it's as Mr Robert said it's a it's a ongoing Journey yeah thank you commissioner cookton Mr Roberts um the south of Heritage Hills Drive there I believe that's an apartment or condominium complex there and there are some I would I assume our private streets through there are those signed for no parking or um Mr chairman commissioner cookton that would be up to those private property owners we don't have any authority to go on private property and and manage their parking or restrict that to the extent that we do it's based on fire access and so fire lanes that the police and fire will get involved with that but we don't as a rule manage the parking or access on private property okay thank you commissioner Curry sorry thank you chair one more um if 100 if this area of 102nd is the only area with four Lane traffic still on 102nd what was there any consideration ever given to making this a a two-lane uh in preparation potentially for uh football games and increased traffic Mr chairman commissioner Curry that's a a really good question we have Revisited the striping on 102nd Street francon Armadale three times with the community and with the council and we were never able to Prevail on a different cross-section we had proposed U various three lane cross-sections this would be a single Lane in each Direction two-way left turn lane and then bikable shoulders um we could not Garner uh community and Council support for that change why why is that there were concerns about uh traffic for the schools and just uh the change and how that would work as well so okay there are many things we've seen over time that it's a new day other questions for staff commissioner cookon I do have a question for Mr cincin Mario um can you help me understand um what on-site parking means so if I think you had a slide there about uh some various things here and Olsen is across the street presumably that's a different site so what are the parameters around that sure chair Roman commissioner C in it's a great question question and uh there it depends on the land use on how where uh you have parking Supply relative to a parking requirement so I I it's the Tex is really small I apologize for that but I wanted to have it on the same slide as the various parking lots and so the code actually tells us uh on where you can have the parking Supply and so it's multif family commercial and Industrial that is the parking has to be within the same site and there's a distance uh component uh there is no uh limitation for an Institutional use so a a place of uh worship or a school uh they could have parking across the street that could quote unquote count uh as required parking so in this case even though it is at a distance more of a distance and isn't the most convenient we are still able to count uh the surface parking at Olen towards the overall supply thank you Mr cerio and I think this is a question for Mr tsy um does that mean we must count it I mean is there any discretion on gez that's awfully far away I don't find that to be appropriate or does the applicant have a right to say this is our parking no just with that code sorry uh chair commissioner cookton um with an affirmative prohibition I think everything else is okay that would be my opinion we took the time to prohibit specific things meaning everything else would be permitted that's how we usually do it in zoning so and this is okay very well thank you other questions for staff yes commissioner thank you Mr chair I do have another question Mr cenario um when we talk about how many parking stalls are required it's I believe it's onethird of the um capacity um should that include folks on the field I we have a hundred players give or take and coaches Etc presumably they had to drive and park to get there um is that counted turn Roman commissioner typically no uh when we calculate places of assembly whether that's this room or across the hall or a congregation or in this case a stadium uh it's really based on the the occupancy of Spectators or people seated traditionally we do not try to estimate or calculate uh bodies on a field or on a stage or some other um component of an assembly space uh and so in this case we would we it's a simple calculation just onethird of the 2500 occupants for the stadium other question questions for staff okay would the applicant like to speak on this item no are there questions for the applicant you could come forward we there are some questions commissioner Curry wait for the applicant to come up just quick I guess uh what was the when is this project expected to be delivered uh we're currently Paul lowski World architect Engineers um we're currently working on rebuilding a schedule um we're waiting for results from the city to determine that um there's still a window for us to do that for the for this basically for the fall of 25 at this point but that's not been determined yet okay thank you other questions for the applicant thank you all right uh as before this item is a public hearing and so I have the roster of those who've signed to speak again I see an item on here that says students and without names I won't have anyone to call on so if you were a student who wishes to speak I would ask you to please see staff uh at the signin table over by the door to be listed um the three minute shot clock as you see is there um and I will let you know if you've exhausted your time and I thank you um both for um giving your comments and I'd also ask that um there was one point I don't know where that there was some reaction from the crowd to someone's comments I would ask that people please hold their reaction um everyone is entitled to their position on these things and to be heard and to be respected and so I would ask that that please continue uh the first name on the list is Carolyn Bell hi my name is Carolyn Bell I live at 10156 irn Road and so point of reference I'm north of 102nd Street Direct directly across from Johnson Avenue um currently with just the school in their events not including the stadium itself two trees of my property were hit several times resulting in removing them at our cost concerned that more cars would race out of 100 Johnson on to 1002 we added a wood fence that fence has now been hit multiple times my neighbor to the west had a car that was coming north down Johnson trying to get to 102nd that car ended up jumping the curb going through the fence landed 3 ft into the bedroom and it resulted in over $20,000 worth of damage in months of construction to their home their mailbox has hit been hit multiple times the neighbors whom have driveways that back onto Johnson have made adjustments to the schedules to avoid before and after school traffic 17 buses and all the school traffic twice a day a neighbor on the corner of Johnson 100 second driveway is blocked if there are three cars at the stop sign um a stop like was suggested at one time but it decided it would make it even worse on average over 40 years we've lived there I call 911 7 to eight times a year this does not include the accidents that the owners just exchange insurance for a Time the accidents happen so often we put a broom in a garbage Hand by the telephone pole so people would start cleaning up all their car remnants all this goes on while kids are walking to and from school yes our neighborhood is walking distance to three schools we bought our homes knowing we're close to school and adjusted but we don't expect a big stadium and all those cars coming out onto Johnson at night on a Friday night I just think it's a rest before disaster some of the neighborhoods surround do not have sidewalks we don't have sidewalks um you asked about parking signs currently on Irwin road I'll speak for that road which is right across from Johnson it's no parking 8 till 4 September through June I signed that petition 40 years ago because everyone was parking with their cars parked halfway into our driveway the Garbage Guys refused take garbage the mail never got delivered because there was just too many cars I know you talk they can park at Olsen or Olsen Junior High I'm here to say they don't people take the fastest closest pass of least resistance to get that stadium and that's going to be on those side streets because they've done it already um it wasn't designed to handle the traffic and the traffic increase when the activity C was added in the parking to the north of the football field was no longer for staff only all the accidents we observe are people trying to get off of 100 off of Johnson on to 102nd that's it and I hope you choose to close that road on Johnson out the west side of Jefferson it's crazy thank you thank you the next name on the roster is Adam planders hello uh my name is Adam Flanders 11300 Jersey Road uh coincidentally I'm an athletic director at Minneapolis Roosevelt High School and for my purposes with this argument or this conversation I'm going to talk about stadiums being venues uh venues I can see what they do at at Roosevelt they bring the community together uh they bring our students together they help build our culture of our school they help build the climate of our school they help um for our students to connect with our community the people around our neighborhood and things like that we have homes right across the street of at our Stadium at Roosevelt uh lighting is not an issue I will admit noise sometimes is an issue but actually it's more so during the day during the day times when our students are using the the field sometimes for lunch and different activities like that that um in April that marks uh the 20th year that I've lived in Bloomington um and that also in that time frame uh we've seen communities that have grown and split and have built stadiums to their uh to their likings uh communities such as Woodberry with East Ridge communities such as ABA Valley with East View and Lake uh Lake View uh excuse me Lakeville with Lakeville South and Lakeville North you know those communities got those stadiums done we've also seen in the 20 years that I've been at Bloomington uh communities that are have been straight Farmland you know have now have built stadiums and schools venues that attract Community attract their students and uh help build their community and help build their culture at their school as well schools uh such as uh St Michael Albertville uh Farmington Waconia and different venues that we can think of that are on the outskirts of of of the metro area that have beautiful looking stadiums beautiful venues beautiful scoreboards and and we're just asking honestly for just something that fits in our footprint that we have and um and we really hope that this happens um venues at high schools give the opportunities for the students to to walk out of their building walk out of their school walk out of the classroom go to The Venue not have to jump in their cars not have to go on a bus to go to their homecoming game and I will also say uh you know in terms of football games home games it's only four year you know Max five if you make it to the playoffs and host you know there's soccer games of course too but you know maybe four or five on each for boys and girls so we're only talking about maybe a dozen you know venue events you know for the fall season and that's the primary season for those uh nighttime events appreciate the time thank you the next name on the roster is Debbie Jacobson okay thank you uh Lindsay Frey palmquest lindsy fry Palmquist 10211 Johnson Circle we'll do this again for the Jefferson record um also just wanted to follow up on the number of events there we talked to the superintendent it is 14 to 15 regular seasons games 11 potential playoff games 15 additional sporting events at all levels games Grant total around 41 night games at all levels if you include championship games don't anticipate it will be that many but again if they choose to rent this out on weekends and or use sound systems and lights for practices it could be exponential looking for conditional uses on that if you feel inclined um noise compliance issues again would love to discuss how the city of Bloomington as municipality must take all reasonable measures within its jurisdiction ition to prevent noise violations that may occur immediately upon the establishment of land use that's related to the MPC the mpca as regulatory Authority Under the active air quality permits at both schools um we do not believe in the neighborhoods surrounding both schools that the venac class and study is accurate nor does it have the data and assumptions required and inputed for the geometry provided that give you the methodology details to decide if it is accurate um these are important to our ability to understand review and accept the study details and estimate that compliance um BK the largest acoustical consultancy in western Canada has more than 200 years of experience and says that the quality of noise predictions depends greatly on the accuracy of the inputs we are unable to view those inputs I have asked for those inputs on six different occasions and have never been given an answer the professionals I consulted with uh who are two acoustical Engineers discussed the hemispherical spreading of sound in the study with no reflectivity calculated off of building surfaces terrain or homes when sound is reflected off a surface such as a house the reflected sound compounds on the existing directed sound that's headed toward the house and increases the deciel level by three on the Johnson Avenue and Heritage Hills property around 300 ft from the center of the football field the estimated level in The Sound study is 64 DB at the L10 if you add the compounding 3 deel reflection it would be an estimated 67 DB which exceeds the code for L10 daytime noise pollution levels at the property line according to BK again the Western Canadian acoustical agency sound reflection is an important geometric consideration as sounds can bounce off one surface and cause nuisance in entirely different direction most accurate itions possible must consider the effects on outdoor environmental noise and include appropriate mitigation measures in the design to avoid costly complaints and retrofits in addition the iso 9613 modeling program itself has limitations in that it assumes a constant set of conditions within the air that never exactly reflect the real world and there are serious doubts that exist on the accuracy of some various empirical algorithms used thanks thank you next on the roster is Mark morl paper coming out of hello uh good evening I am a 16-year resident my wife and I have two children that are a part of Bloomington Public Schools and I'm here to talk uh for the improvements to the site as a positive uh the biggest thing is I see investment in our community uh even more specifically investment in our schools in our high schools uh second element I think that's really really excited exciting is uh the campus experience as Mr Flanders pointed out a lot of benefits to the school to the community as it relates to uh the campus experience that these kids will have um another big piece of this or the third item I think that's very very valuable is the ada8 compliance that we're going to see um with the site as a result of the improvements I'll use uh this week as an example so Monday night uh the boys High School lacrosse team had a section game there and believe it or not the bleachers were full now when I say full they're probably 90% or more full but beyond that we had people standing between the bleachers plus that back hill if you're familiar with the area the entire line of that hill was full of people right now the challenge is we have all kinds of families that are there to watch a game like this and we've got let's say elderly grandparents that cannot navigate that grass hill to get down to the bleachers right so they're sitting in the excuse me on the back on the top of the hill on the grass to watch the game but great Community experience um but just certainly opportunity to improve that area for spectators as well as the students um especially with the site improvements there with the students coming out on game day they're not traveling off campus for that other than that that's all I got thank you thank you next on the roster is Ken Enis oh thank you Mr chairman Commissioners appreciate your time I uh just like uh I reiterated last time when I came up and I discussed this with you folks was about you know currently Bloomington Jefferson and Kennedy have a stadium now granted it's an older Stadium but it's steeped in Tradition memories and it goes back decades a lot of people uh have fond memories of the stadium and Stadium play there I particularly uh enjoying that group group with my sons having both played football there for Jefferson so uh I uh you know uh see the stadium is uh yeah it's been tested over time it's got uh adequate parking conditions it hasn't had issues with the neighbors we had one neighbor here stand up and say they they hardly hear games that are going on there you know um you know and it has uh you know it yeah granted it has improvements needed it would be nice if there was an artificial turf in there for the the students to play on uh maybe some covers over the stands and a locker room for the students to get uh Dressed and and uh taken care of after the games are over so you know um you know it's sad that that was lost when we lost Lincoln Stadium sold that you know uh I'm really sorry we lost that resource uh currently Bloomington Jefferson solicits leases rents their facilities out to other organization such as aaou amateur athletic Union and uh and dance America USA uh on a constant basis during the summer times which is overcrowding the school and its resource uh they have uh people coming in from all over uh North Dakota uh Wiscon I see Wisconsin plates North Dakota plates Iowa plates South Dakota plates parking in the the Lots next to the school uh that is a concern for me when with this enhanced Stadium you know uh uh you know they're going to be utilizing this resource in that regard too and I see you know when these events go on people running across the 102nd with their kids they're not using the crosswalks we have a potential injury situation going on there when this these events are occurring and with the stadium also coming into play I just see issues so you know um it's a bad relationship uh with the community with the the running out of this fac these facilities to other organizations such as they're doing um you know we're seeing people coming into our neighborhoods that are not you know abiding by the the the uh you know basically the the rules of a standard neighborhood they don't respect our neighborhoods they leave trash around or they end up uh parking on the grass as we're hearing you know uh they're not from here so they they they just don't uh take it as like it is their own neighborhoods you know and you know I you know I I I I struggle with that you know I I I expect the school to be meant for students and learning and not as a business for profit you know I I'm really concerned with that and I I I ask the council to look into this further and ask you know the district what it is that they're doing you know and how they're impacting their neighbors in the community by doing this you know um I ask you to wrap up your comments you bet yeah the last concern is you know I just I asked you to take these considerations and and do your uh decision tonight and also in future decisions regarding the school thank you thank you next on the roster is Jeff m thank you um my name is Jeff om I live at 10425 Johnson Avenue South is Lincoln Stadium uh is that Deb on arrival in terms of being able to use a renovation process on that particular football field that option is closed because I'm an outlier here with regard to putting a stadium at Jefferson High School I live on Johnson Avenue right now been there since 84 it's uh traffic wise it's close to becoming an Indie 500 qualifying lap when people come to school and leave school it is absolute chaos there and it's getting worse and I think the stadium if it does go ahead as implanted there which I think you're basically putting a square peg into a round hole I don't think you have the land or the area to put that stadium in and make it uh fit the neighborhood another consideration I think property values in our neighborhood are going to go down because of the stadium if in fact it does go in so all I'm asking do your due diligence personally I'd like to see things stay at 90th in pen where my son played football um I think that'd be a better fit in my opinion thank you thank you next on the roster is Diane Stevens hello uh my name is danan Stevens and I live at 17 Little Road thank you for your time this evening um when I signed up to speak uh I was unaware of the discretion pyramid but um I'll share my support anyways so I a BPS staff member member and parent um and it was a huge hit to student morale and Community when the Middle School sports were cut and I think stadiums at the high school grounds would boost school spirit and their connection to their Community homecoming and other sporting events at home but not on the grounds of your high school building causes a disconnect I would love for BPS students to have a sense of comfort and school spirit when attending athletic events that would occur at their um stadiums on their school grounds earlier this session Commissioners have expressed needing a place for children in Bloomington in regards to a restaurant coming soon a functioning Statum for each of the high schools is also a place for our teenage youth to gather create community and support their peers thank you thank you next on the roster is Mark Bachmann Mr chair Commissioners my name is Mark Bachman I've been asked to speak on behalf of the Jefferson football boosters um I'm new to this Tim Carlson put all the work into this and sharing you talked about pictures of stadiums um so I I appreciate the work that's been done by him and by the boosters previous to this I'm I'm so impressed with what's being considered here um being being new to the to the school I I see an incomplete campus um the activities are happening there as as have been mentioned uh but it's it's incomplete um um there's two small set of bleachers that are smaller than you'd have at a middle school band concert so completion of what was begun in 1969 is due is due to take place the other piece to consider that what I'm so impressed about is the impact this is going to have on all of Bloomington um my role prior to retiring I was the facility director for a school district and number one on my job was front porch because families are looking as they drive around deciding where they want to live at the school if there were weeds and the cracks of my building that was a problem because we don't care right now if you look at the Jefferson Stadium what do people think we can increase the economy we can increase the or reduce the tax burden on everybody in the community if we have more people moving into the community the stadium is going to bring people in it's going to bring more income to the businesses in the surrounding area and in the long run it's going to help the infrastructure of the whole Community because more people are going to want to be here instead of going to the places that commissioner Curry mentioned in the pictures thank you for your time thank you next is Katherine Babcock hello Katherine Babcock uh once again there there's a flashing colored light tlcr gbw still listed on the um Thomas Jefferson football stadium light roster that is not in accord with your lighting Co lighting code that's 21-31 d07 blinking flashing moving lights I'm not talking about the up lighting this is yet another light that nobody has ever discussed publicly it's a flashing light that changes colors and rotates around and it is in your city code that it needs to be addressed so before you make an approval on that it hasn't yet been looked at second thing I want to talk about is getting a um conditional use permit and some mitigation for the Jefferson High School one of the good reasons that we can help to mitigate light in some of the parts of the Season that we're not using the stadium for school related issues is light pollution brightening yards imperiling fireflies right on the front page of our Star Tribune today and it talks about how um fireflies are diminishing all around the country but mainly here in Minnesota we have small colonies of fireflies around the Kennedy Stadium um there's a few fireflies every now and then around Jefferson Stadium these I would just encourage you all to look at this article because it really tells you in detail how events like this when done rightly won't imperil these and that's why a conditional use permit and mitigation such as as trees and shrubs following up with the goodwi of the school district not to over um overutilize this resource would help the residents that have to live here your kids are in and out of there in four years my family's been there 70 years even before the high school was built so the changes help people who are there longterm there's a Goodwill good way to do it and I think that um it's within everybody's power to get the school district persu Ed that it would be to their best interest to have that kind of uh decorum with their residents uh that's all I've got thank you next is Joselyn Brewer maybe apologize if I'm misreading the handwriting hi I'm Joslyn Beaver uh I live at 10374 Rich Road I am uh resident of Bloomington for the last 20 years I'm a mom of two Bloomington students and I'm currently the co-president of our football program and I'm just here um to number one just say the permit that you're looking at is about light and sound which you've done a great job of doing due diligence and my understanding is it's all been met so thank you very much I also put together a petition afterwards at just wanting because I got your email my understanding is that um you guys had some folks that wanted to put that petition I just asked you to move forward without any further delays there was 594 folks that signed that um that the vast majority of whom live here um and would like you to continue to move forward on behalf of these kiddos I just wanted to say you know Lincoln Stadium Lincoln closed in 1982 so it's been a minute that you guys have been ready to update this for the kids and there's 3,200 students every single year that are going to be able to use these these spaces there is endless research that shows the coraly between sports and what that does for kiddos amazing uh impact on their academics the my son who is a lacrosse student they did very well this year there was I'm either going to say say one of these two things wrong there was nine kids that had over a 4.0 on the team and 11 that had over a 3.5 impressive and they were one of the best teams in the state there is huge contributions of what they learn on the field and what they take out on what they contribute to society what we have is not enough it's time you need to move forward and this is somebody who I I was the first graduating class from the environmental study school of Environmental Studies I care about the environment that's not what this whole situation is about I'm very confident that you can handle this project move forward in compliance with what is needed and use the Myriad of resources to address any issues that come up and this is also about access our kids have an opportunity to walk to their games we do not have busing we don't have bus drivers for them to be able to be not bust to their home games would be wonderful we have currently our student population under the age of 18 22.7% of them live in po poverty okay we have issues with access of what is happening with these continued delays the time is now please continue to move forward and this area has always been busy I'm love that you're talking about ways to you know address what I live right on 100 second in Rich Road great love that you're already talking about how you're going to address this you're ready the kids are ready and I appreciate you moving forward thank you thank you the next name I apologize if my handwriting is not great or my reading of handwriting is not great um Chrissy grao hi uh Christy groko 10832 little Avenue um and I'm here in support of the stadium the current Stadium at Jefferson is not handicapped accessible uh the entrance is grass and too steep for anyone in a wheelchair or a medical scooter to get around in there is a paved pet path on the one side the current students that are in wheelchairs that try to get down to the turf of the track frankly are too scared to go down because it is so steep um we two years ago unfortunately had one of the grandpas that came and fell down the hill because he couldn't get back up and so we just want it to be a place that family and the students can come watch and be safe um when we chose was Bloomington 20 years ago to live we wanted it a place of community facilities for our kids and my one daughter already graduated my son will be a junior next year so I want this for the future of Jefferson and the city of Bloomington so thank you thank you next is uh Christy ELD Elder uh cic I know I got wrong you had it pretty good for Polish we say it the American way Shep Che or sorry susik shef Che is all right uh thank you for allowing the community to speak um on their thoughts in the stadium today I'm chrisy Elder susek sorry I didn't say that I'm reading a statement from my husband Tom susek who is the new boys head coach for Jefferson soccer as he's coaching right now and couldn't make it tonight uh so he wrote as a coach at one of the city's high schools this has a direct impact on the program that I'm overseeing I've played against Jefferson and Kennedy high schools in soccer several times over the years while coaching other schools the thing that has always stood out to me is the lack of definite atmosphere at the home stadiums at Jefferson games uh had to be played earlier in the day since there weren't lights at both stadiums there was a lack of spectator sitting this was shocking difference from other schools I coached at Brooklyn Center High School and Chanhassen High School although Lincoln has the Bloomington Stadium this location has zero feeling on actual home stadium field is shorter when it's lined for soccer which changes team tactics it's regularly torn up by the football players to no fault of their own this has a major impact on the quality of soccer that can be played at the stadium which is something that is different when compared to Turf now that he's coaching at Jefferson and we are Bloomington residents as well um he wants to voice his opinion opinion that it is vital for the community and the sports programs to complete these updates although there are a few people in the community that oppose the upgrades the vast majority of the city wants these to take place there have been multiple delays and studies performed by the city all with independent contractors to appease the voices of descent numbers and data do not have an opinion they are based on fact facts should guide our decision-making process and not opinions the data derived from the studies indicates that the concerns voiced by the feud Des centers are not valid concerns this should be enough to uh for us to proceed with the plans thank you thank you next on the list is Allison lindman good evening um my name is Elison linman and I feel as though I have a unique perspective for both stadiums my husband and I are lifelong Bloomington residents and Kennedy alumni we are currently raising our three children in the Jefferson boundary area and I'm a teacher at oakr Middle School my husband and I made our decision to live in Bloomington because our parents still live here I believe Mark marrow actually was talking about my dad who's 83 coming to my sons lacrosse game on Monday night and he has a very difficult time with the way that this stadium is um is the lack of ADA um accommodations we my husband and I wanted to share the same experiences that we had growing up which includes our education and athletic experience in the Bloomington School District at Kennedy I played soccer and ran track both a stadium setting and my husband also played soccer for Kennedy throughout the last 20 years I coached soccer for Jefferson for eight years and currently coach Middle School track for for Oak grve Middle School which uses both Kennedy and Jefferson tracks all three of my kids ages 18 14 and 10 have used both High School turf fields and tracks for vars City Sports Association camps and middle school track meets I can honestly say I have been waiting for over 20 years for both high schools to have Stadium improvements there is nothing more powerful and impactful than school spirit the opportunity to attend Events sports or otherwise on your own school campus as Kennedy alumni some of my favorite memories are playing Under The Lights having my name read over the loudspeaker and spending time with friends watching Friday Night Football games as a coach I've been able to compare stadiums from all over the Metro small schools and large schools most on campus and some right in the middle of their town like Hastings I am envious of their communities as a parent watching your kids be a part of their school community Through various activities on campus being able to sit in bleachers rather than standing along the fen line and being able to hear the national anthem before a game but not being able to hear it because the louds speaker system doesn't exist this shouldn't be about parking lights decb or even endangered bugs this is about Community this is about school spirit and this is about supporting our kids thank you thank you next on the roster is Lyn lenberg hello Lyn Lundberg and I live at 4531 Heritage Hill Circle um I am speaking in favor of mitigation efforts to help residents who live close to the schools so I want to start by talking about um the city council I just listened to the city council I think that you were listening as well um commissioner alre and um I noticed that commissioner or that um city council member Rivas mentioned that he lives really pretty close to Lincoln and um he sits in his backyard now I'm paraphrasing him sits in his backyard and the noise is really annoying he says but he has a couple of drinks and it's okay I think I faar that pretty accurately so that's a concern right okay so three things um number one we had two residents well a lot of residents but two residents in particular who have spent an enormous amount of time researching this and you can tell Katherine and Lindsay um they've researched this this and um they brought up some really valid concerns and I don't know that you would addressed those so I'd like if you could after this is over if you could address some of their concerns that they mentioned um the question about the lack of data the question that that they talked about maybe using the sound system for uh during during practices and things what what do you think about all of that I'd like to see those concerns addressed um also I'm wondering we talked about earlier the restaurants who have um complaints um triggering the um if you have three complaints that triggers then the restaurants to maybe work on mitigation things why not do this for the schools why not have the restaurant the residents be able to if there's three complaints maybe the schools need to work on um some mitigation efforts and finally the parking issues um west side of olssen is not really very practical I don't know if you've been over there lately but people don't know it exists there's a lot of parking there but how will they know to get there so I would like to have you talk a little bit about how you're planning on directing the traffic over there because right now people don't know it's there thanks thank you next on the list is Jane Barnes I am indeed Jane Barnes and I live at 4529 Heritage Hills Circle Lyn and I are neighbors um I came tonight um upset and it's been really edifying to hear lots of people with their perspectives and so you will not hear me talking about uh lights and noise uh there are some questions left as Lynn suggested about the noise um uh decel level um I think that the lighting there's been plenty of attention paid to that I appreciate that I appreciate all the thought that has gone into this by many many people I know my biggest concern is um the traffic and the parking it's uh the other day I was coming home from shopping at Cub Foods and I'm driving down Heritage Hills Drive off of France Avenue I made a left onto Heros Hills Drive I went past those apartments and Condominiums we were talking about the fields are now on your right there were cars parked on the sidewalk around the corner onto Johnson all the way down Johnson and um that is a first that hasn't happened a lot before people are lazy there were tons of parking spots left in the Olen Middle School lot that is right across the street from that field people don't use it they won't use it unless they're forced to I'm concerned I don't know how we get no parking signs on um on um Heritage Hills Drive perhaps on Johnson during games I think that's critical you can't pass with people parked on the street which sometimes happens on Heritage Hills Drive coming off of France Avenue on the on the side of the fields um you can't pass two cars very easily uh that's it's a real problem it's not we're not making that up um people will not park on the other side of Olen middle school and Elementary School they as Lynn said people don't know that's there so what we're left with I'm curious to know how many spots there are available at the Olen Middle School lot that's right across the street from the field I don't know how many spots there are there the only other spots left that are parking related to the school are the spots that are by the tennis courts and by the fields that exist now um there's ample parking there and around the corner on the front of the high school the problem with that is that's not always a problem but it's sometimes a problem with the many other activities that go on in that building I had uh um my husband and I have lived um in that spot that was mentioned that's the worst the southwest corner uh Behind these new fields we live up on the hill um we raised two girls there um they are bitter human beings for having gone to Bloomington schools and for living here in this community we love it here uh I'm if you could please wrap up your comments okay uh you get the gist of it parking is my my big deal and I appreciate your your consideration of that for those of us who live there thank you thank you next on the list is Pat Meyer almost hello I am Pat Meyer 4531 her chill Circle and thank you all for serving on the commission as a difficult job um I think I've got some rough idea about what you're posed with here the question you're going to have to answer and I really have two things talk a little bit about sound because I want to understand this and the other one is back to parking again on the sound the L10 level if I understand the science behind that I could be at 140 DB which is an airplane taken off for 5 minutes and still meet that is that correct okay and then secondly on the park in addition um everybody's right they're not going to go over to Olen what are you going to do um if parking becomes a huge problem and you get do you only take action when there's a complaint so you know we go ahead and do this two years from now we find out it is really a big problem what what are you going to do are you have you has anybody got a plan for what mitigation measures might be put in place step one step two step three and I guess the same question goes for the noise is somebody going to be testing it a year from now to find out if we if we are in compliance and if we're not then what happens is there a plan so thank you thank you uh next on the list and I apologize another one of my attempts um Carter flucas hello my name is Carter flous and I'm a student at Jefferson High School I play football in Lacrosse and this year for lacrosse we hosted good amount of home games and we'd walk out of the locker room walk onto the field and I would just see people sitting in the grass they're not they don't have anywhere to sit in bleachers and I have family come into the games and I just feel like they should be able to have a better experience along with us as students to be able to have a better experience and now that we don't have Lincoln for home football games there's just going to be people sitting in the grass all the time there's nowhere for them to go and it's just not going to be a very fun experience to be honest so I hope that you guys will consider uh building the stadium at Jefferson uh thank you thank you next on the list is Franklin reac hi my name is Franklin reac and I play football for Jefferson and I also to run track but track probably won't be that big of a deal cuz not a lot of people come to the meets but football will definitely be because a lot of people enjoy coming to meet or to the games at Link Field now that that's gone we got to move on maybe hopefully we're getting a new great stadium that lives up to the Lincoln Stadium expectation at Jefferson and I know along with all my other sophomore football buddies we want to have a nice Stadium to play at and have good memories there thank you thank you um that has exhausted my list of speakers um no one else at the door has signed up this is the um for those in the chamber I would make a last call for anyone who'd like to speak on this item and online I think we're also clear okay so seeing none I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing so move second thank you there's a motion in a second to close the public hearing discussion see none in favor say I I opposed the motion carries the public hearing is closed um before we get into discussion too much I think I've made a few notes from the um comments that we have here I think um senior planner sentar the flashing light comment that is that covered under our other um lighting code requirements chair Commissioners there is some language related to flashing lights I don't know what how that applies offand uh but certainly something that I would be looking into and if it's a if it's a if it's a code standard it would be required to be to be met yeah if there's modifications that are necessary they would have to be made um before permits would be issued there's nothing in this action tonight that would permit something that's not code compliant that's correct sure thank you um I think um we heard a number of things about traffic about parking I think this body has uh I know I'm sure most of you watch every week when we meet um because it's riveting stuff but uh we have talked uh at nauseum about this issue in the city um those of you who may if any of you know me um as this is actually my last meeting of six years of of this body I've talked endlessly about sidewalks about speed limits about shrinking our streets about all those things and so I think I know that's that this what you're bringing us today know that this is something we talk about a lot and we are making progress I think you heard staff talked earlier about some of the work that's coming to 102nd with speed limits I think staff echoed some of their frustrations that perhaps some different people who sat in these chairs in the past have not been receptive to those ideas you know uh uh this group has heard me talk about we are a suburb that was built for the car and we are trying to correct some of that that we know people are still driving and people are going to drive and we also need to live in harmony with people who walk people who bike people who scooter and things like that you know the the sad story that came out of I think Lakeville earlier this week is a good reminder of why we're why we focus on some of the things we focus on I think you'll see that in the next month when the speed limits across the city come down by five miles an hour um I would encourage the school again as we talked about with trees shrubs things you can do to improve the natural environment I think I would also encourage you to look at some good I don't know if it's Sandwich Board signing if it's volunteer parents from your booster clubs out there with you know airplane cones or whatever flashing people to where that parking is because it's not obvious and we certainly I don't think we do not want to introduce a new driveway from Olsen onto Heritage Hills of course that would make it worse for the Neighbors there um but we need to figure out some way to get especially the people from out of town to know where to park um so those are some of my comments on that um I think this is um again this process we've got a much improved application I know in my time when we've had applications that come that are I will say substandard um initially that they've either been improved improved excuse me or the applicant has chosen to not come back and we've seen both of those in commissioner gozman in my time um and this body takes this work seriously so um again I have a microphone one more time and I will have chosen to use it so um thank you for everyone who um is here this is why we have public hearings this is why as commissioner cookton has said we are the the closest people to the people of anyone in this governing process so I wish we had more people for some of these things um and with that I will call for discussion commissioner Alber uh thank you chair I have a couple questions some followup based on uh some comments Mr sario can you address the sound study specifically and the metrics behind the sound study J Roman commissioner the Acoustics firm that conducted the study you know they have their methodology and the data that they collected and used both from uh I think it was uh generally regarded uh methods for sound modeling uh we haven't had access to the raw data and frankly I don't know what we would do with it if I had it um because just a we don't have sound modeling software and so I wouldn't be able to evaluate whether it's valid or not uh just to be totally Frank and so it's it's typically it's not something that's a codee requirement to provide the the modeling data behind the study and it isn't something that uh we've asked for thank you um another follow-up question regarding sound and this is more for everyone here who's listening in about and really addressing the sound um how often do you see sound study in in applications uh chair Commissioners so I've been a planner for the city for 10 years and I think there's been three including well four if you have both of these applications so two studies before Kennedy and Jefferson yeah I think it's I think that's about I mean that's what I'm I'm counting in my head as well so um the other so I appreciate that that additional information my my comments regarding sound uh I'll Echo commissioner cookton response from uh the Kennedy application regarding you know we're not experts our planning staff is not are not sound experts either um the uh I I believe that the data is there I also don't know what we would do with the data if we had it so I think that's a good um a good remark on that as well um the comments regarding um the restaurants I know there was a comment about um a comparison to the two first two applications we had this evening um those conditions were put into place because those restaurants were open um past 10 p.m. the requirement uh for the stadium as I understand is that games cannot go past 1 p.m. um if they were to have gone past 10 p.m. I would be totally open to those additional uh conditions however um do we have jurisdiction to do that probably not um however because it's not a conditional use permit uh but the uh regarding mitigation I believe that the mitigation is within the code to actually comply with um the sound uh requirement ments of the city at large uh my last comment uh related to what we heard in in in feedback tonight and I really appreciate everyone being here as well is around enforcement um we uh we as a group are not enforcers um and so as much as I'd like to say this is what we can and we can't do and what we can and we can't promise in terms of what the police will do and will they ticket people who are parking on the sidewalk I have no idea um I would hope that we would uh trust that our Traffic Engineers our our parking Specialists our uh police force would enforce um the laws as they stand um and I would encourage neighbors to have that communication with uh the police force because again we are not the enforcement body um and going back to the comments about injures um I don't believe that the traffic and the parking are considered injures um and therefore I do believe that all the findings have been made uh and I am in support of this application commissioner cookton thank you Mr chair you know for this one again it comes down to the four findings we have and as I Was preparing for this item which to take a long time we put a lot of time into these things and and give them a lot of thought and I think the public can trust just as well as I know my fellow Commissioners they've put a lot of thought into this and and so what I what I Was preparing for was was the code actually on this one and my biggest concern with with Jefferson is I got to tell you I think we're underp parked um I I believe that olssen parking is really far away and that a lot of people aren't going to use it and practically speaking I think it's underp parked but we I asked our attorney of what the legal ramifications of what is considered on-site parking and they are within their right to consider that on-site parking and with that I have no ability to say anything other than okay I guess they're they're sufficiently parked but practically speaking Yeah I I think this one's more difficult than Kennedy because the parking is not convenient and it is like almost a half a mile walk to that west side of Olson and you know in some ways I think the market will support that out um if you're able bodied and don't mind walking half a mile you'll have a nice easy parking spot you'll get home without much consternation of getting out of the parking lot but for some people that's not an option and I'm always trying to think about not myself not what my abilities are but the abilities of people who are aging or who don't who do have Mobility challenges and I think having to walk a half mile to get to a a football game is a struggle so it's disappointing that it's so far away I I wish I don't like building parking lots I wish Jefferson maybe was considering that here they're not and they're code compliant and so that check box is checked and you look at the other findings and I think they're made just like they are at at Kennedy and so with that I'll be supporting this application the things I uh we heard from uh director Anderson and Kennedy that their typical attendance at football which is the larger event is about 500 I don't know if uh that number is comparable at Jefferson or if it's it's higher is director nberg do you have a estimate of a number uh Chad iberg activities director at Jefferson I'd say the high bar on our highest football games is about 2200 okay thank you yeah so we would expect more cars likely at Kennedy than at uh Jefferson to your point but again well sorry at Jefferson not at Kennedy to your point but as also to your point the parameters were allowed to look at her what they are other discussion commissioner goldsman thank you chair um I'm not going to add and reiterate lot of the things that people said um I'm looking at this as you know when I look at injur uses are people uh being safe as they come and go into that location look at sidewalk accessibility um and what reasonable measures can we take to M mitigate any type of accident or um injury as people are transporting um themselves to and from um and one thing that I really appreciate um that happened at the state level is that we as a a city are now able to change our speed limits as a city um this is within the last two to three years that we actually can say you know we don't want people zooming through our city we want to slow them down we want it to be safer for pedestrians uh and for people that are driving as well it's safer if you're going slower um and we're seeing that in action now um as we've heard from the engineers um speed limits are changing here in Bloomington within the next 30 days um as well as we are starting to have school safety zones um that make it so that we can be uh slower in those those spaces and that really applies to this applic here um I would say prior to those changes I would have some difficulty saying having a large group of people at night walking through these streets um to get to their cars across uh is it Johnson Avenue um would be a concern of mine um but I think right now this is the time we've we've made the changes the changes are are emminent before the next uh football season and before the next School season um where we will have a safer environment I don't think it will be done we have lots more to do but it is safer and we are taking those mitigations um so those are the things that I'm thinking about and on top of all of the other comments that have been made um I really like your idea of way finding uh for uh residents making it a fun you know here's my sandwich board come come Park here for free um things that you can do to to try to uh get people to know that there's more space than just those neighborhood residents um so I think as I look at this it it is um meeting all of the criteria and I will be supporting further discussion commissioner Curry thank you chair um well I mean I definitely I mean I think a new football stadium would be great um obviously voted for the Kennedy football stadium um but you know in this instance uh you know we had a resident come up in a recent meeting whose child was hit multiple times on 102nd as a crosswalk uh over multiple years and nothing happened so I mean I just don't think I mean I I don't know why it takes so long for these things to happen for these things to change so anyways I just think I'd be turning a blind eye if if uh I just if I voted for this so I can't support it further discussion commission Isa um um s sort of like we were speaking about um when it comes to our objective decision um it is based off the findings the four findings um that the um Planning Commission uh came up with um and so my person personal or subjective take I guess you could say more subjective take um after listening to um resident concerns and people who are supportive not supportive um is I know personally for me growing up um going to Kenedy High School sports did help out and so um I know someone brought up the research behind uh with the correlation between academics and um Sports um so I just wanted to say that and um and I do think it is important to be more inclusive to our elderly and disabled community and so if these improvements do help um with that um I'm definitely supportive um I also do understand the concerns and um behind traffic and noise and maybe potentially we could I'm not sure how possible this is but in the future come up with a like a system that um people can report that and there could be like a task force that's assigned to I'm not sure how possible it is but um yeah that's my take any further discussion commissioner cookton thanks Mr chair before any uh motions get rolling here it's it's not my perview to really say this but I I'll reach out to and just ask the design team to consider as people may be making a long walk to that West Olson lot consider maybe a couple of benches or something along that path certainly not a condition of approval but be thinking about the elderly among us that they maybe bit off a little more than they can Che with that long walk and really need a place to sit I wouldn't want to see them stranded on a half mile walk so perhaps a couple of benches could help our our neighbors and with that I am prepared to make a motion go ahead in case p2023 d158 having been able to make the required findings I moved to approve final site and building plans for site and Stadium improvements to the Jefferson High School athletic campus subject to the conditions and Coda requirements attached to the staff report second thank you we have a motion and a second to approve final site and building plans at the subject property is there any further discussion seeing none in favor say I I I opposed opposed the motion passes this is a final decision unless an appeal is received at City Hall by 4:30 p.m. on June 11th thank you we'll take a second if anyone those who um would like to clear up before we have um approval of our minutes we're going to skip next we'll be done soon yeah no one wants to say for minutes right um since we have not too much left I will just go ahead and proceed um due to the uncertainty of the duration of uh the public hearings tonight uh staff have have opted to request a continuance of study item number five so I would request a motion to continue the Streamline development approvals study item to June 20th commissioner cookton request for continuance second thank you we have a motion in a second to continue the item discussion in favor say I I opposed the motion passes the item is continued item number six is approval of the draft meeting synopsis from May 9th and I should verify but I believe everyone was was here at that meeting uh no commissioner alberch was not so I would entertain a motion commissioner oh sorry commissioner mg govern before we do I think I read that she was present and absent maybe my iite is not you did you arrive late per chance no you were out of town right am I reading that right on yes I was out I was work ah I see what you're saying she appears in both the present and absent line so um I would entertain a motion with a suggested edit um I make a motion for the suggest edit and um approve it we have a motion to approve the draft Planning Commission synopsis from May 9th striking commissioner albrech as present second all right any further discussion in favor say I I I opposed the motion passes um and the Planning Commission policy and issue update planning manager Mark yes chair Roman commissioners uh next meeting June 20th we have four items on the meeting now a first of all public hearing on a conditional use permit for indoor Recreation and entertainment use that's at 7700 West Old chapi Road uh then we have three study items on the agenda an update on the river Riverview Corridor Transit project uh secondly a discussion of potential single room occupancy and co- living housing standards and then third the continued item from this evening which was our second discussion on streamline development approvals uh looking farther out at July 11th so far two items on that agenda uh public hearing on a city code Amendment regarding cannabis business standards and then a public hearing on uh final sight and building plan revisions to convert uh shared space within an existing apartment building to one additional living unit so that's what we have coming up and I just want to recognize that this is uh chair Roman's last meeting uh with the Planning Commission after six uh six great years on the commission and the last two of which uh serving as chair and has done an excellent job as chair so we will definitely miss you not about excellent but serviceable I think there's probably well other than the seven of us not a lot of people who would find this all all that fun but it's it has been fun and I think commissioner Goldman and I will both be done this month after six years and we've and the staff who do a great job we've seen a lot of very interesting and fascinating things over six years and um not all of which have sailed through as we talked about tonight um I think and so um I would encourage anyone who's still left on uh who's thinking about this kind of stuff you know this we have we have vacancies every year two to three vacancies every year um and you don't have to be an expert in any one of these areas um I think most of what I know I've learned from osmosis um and uh if you if you're at all curious be involved and I wish the rest of you who are still here well anything else for the good of the order and with that we are adjourned until June 20th [Music]