Heat. Heat. [Music] [Music] All right. I call this meeting to order. This is the land use planning and zoning committee of the city council. All counselors are present this evening. I want to start with a land acknowledgement. The city of Albuquerque was established on unseated president traditional homelands of the Tiwa Pueblo people and the PBLO of Sandia and Isleta. As caretakers of the middle Rio Grande Valley, the Tiwa people nurtured and cared for its human and non-human inhabitants as well as the desert, mountain, and water ecosystem since time in memorial. Historically, the PBLO peoples have contributed to and guided the development of Albuquerque and New Mexico. and they continue to cultivate the cultural, spiritual, and socioeconomic life of Albuquerque and our land of enchantment. We also recognize that Albuquerque has long been a gathering place of diverse indigenous peoples, tribal nations, and pblo of New Mexico, and indigenous nations from around the world, and that this sacred place continues to be their traditional homelands. This is a hybrid meeting where all participants will be in person or on a video or audio conference. Members of the public have the opportunity to address the committee if they signed up for the public comment per the rules published on the agenda and on our website Friday. We'll call speakers um when we get to the individual item that they signed up for. But in general, the comments will be addressed to me and to the committee members only. Each participant will have two minutes to present and any disruptive conduct will result in removal from the meeting. We are going to switch the agenda and hear um agenda item B first. Um and so I will turn that over to Councelor Rogers. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to um move R 160 creating a work group to explore a fixed price pro disposition program for the sale of city-owned vacant lots and lots for housing development. And I move for a due pass. I'll second that. And I want to um have public speakers. I know we had one. Thank you, Madam Chair. We have Muhammad Al Jabari coming in to speak. Muhammad Ali. Uh, yes. Hello. Um, sorry about that. Just give me uh one second. Uh, hi. Uh, my name is uh Muhammad Al Jabbori. Um, and I'm here as a renter uh and with Olay uh and uh renters revolution and us uh regular folks are pretty much tired of being screwed over by management and managers. Even uh just this month I was forced to pay uh for three months even though I have proof that I paid for the previous uh months already. Um we are constantly getting our um I'm sorry we we are on a different regular wear walls and they'll charge $300 for a door knob or like 200 for Mr. Alberry um I'm so sorry to interrupt you. We are on a different item. We are on creating a working group to explore a fixed pricing disposition program and that's what you had signed up to speak for but we are going to move you over to Oh, do you have comments on the um R25160? Oh, uh no, I'm sorry about that. I thought I was on the uh uh second uh uh item on the list. Sorry about that. So, do you have any comments on the second on agenda item B, which is R160? Um, uh, that's the that's the one for the um, uh, the renters. Uh, um, like, uh, uh, no, it's for the work we're creating a working group to explore a fixed pricing disposition program for the city. And if you don't have comments on that, we're going to go ahead and move on and then we'll come back to you when we get to the 088. Okay. Yeah, that that's fine then. Okay. Thank you. Sorry about that. Councelor Rogers. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, this bill proposes to create a working group to study the development of a fixedpric program for selling city-owned vacant lots and buildings um and standardizing pricing for housing developments. Um, and this is just this is something that I've done a lot of research um, working with the administration as well to just explore how we could allow other folks to help us with the housing crisis. So, in my district, for instance, we have a lot of infill lots that are in between single family homes that a lot of our big developers that do building for us don't want to do those little types of of projects. And so this would allow our smaller contracts who contractors who build maybe five houses a year to have access to those benefits like land um at a fixed price. So not a donation so that they can be able to help us with our housing crisis. This is something that's worked in other cities like Baltimore um where they have done this to help folks be able to to help us with the housing crisis. So I would appreciate your support. Thank you, councilors. Any um do you have an amendment to move, councelor Rogers? Thank you. I sure do. Thank you, Julia. Also, there couple of amendments that came from the administration that we want to make to the fixed price program R 160. So, first amendment is on page two, line 29 through 30. uh delete the following designated by council and it's the same on line 22 line three on page three also and the same so it's the same amendment and really this is just from the the administration reminding us that the authority to you appoint people from their department is within the administration so it's just changing the language um honoring that difference. Got a motion and a second. Um, and we do not have to do a roll call vote tonight. So, all those in favor of accepting the amendment, raise your hand and say, "I." Yes. Okay, that amendment passes. Do you have another one, counselor? And no, that's it. That they were both all in that in that first amendment. Okay, I'm going to open it up one more time for any questions or comments from counselors. Okay, Council Gr. Thank you, Madame Chair. Uh, the working group members will be designated by council. Will we vote on this? Oh, it doesn't anymore. Okay. None of them. Thank you. Thank you for the question, councelor Grout, Madam Chair. Um, so council, these would be basically designated by the administration for as far as who's going to serve on from the department. So, the amendment that we just made changed that particular language. Okay. But there are some uh positions that will be counted will be designated by councils. Correct. I just amended the ones that were directing the departments. Okay. So, um who will be who who on council? How is that going to be determined? Thank you for that question. In my spirit of collaboration, I would like to work with our our team um to come up with those recommendations. So, I would love recommendations from I know I've talked to councelor Champine about some um but I would be open to collaborating on that. Okay. Okay. Would the working group only focus on properties that are appropriate for housing development? Correct. The for for me the point of this is just is to help with our housing crisis and thinking specifically about housing. Okay. The city typically uses the RFP. Thank you, Madam Chair. Sorry. The city typically uses the RFP process to sell land which is designated to get the best value or price on behalf of the taxpayers. Is fixed pricing meant to replace that? No, it is not. Madam Chair, Council Grat is not meant to replace that. We would still, as the mayor has an RFP right now out for vacant lands for housing, so it wouldn't preclude that. which is we know from the process that most often folks who can go through that RFP process are our bigger developers. Um this would be geared towards contractors, individual residents could even access this outside of the RFP program. And so this this aims to come up with a different process but not to replace the RFP process. Thank you, Madam Chair. I one more question. Will the working group be asked to consider value to the taxpayers? Thank you, Madam Chair. That is a great question. Yes, I think part of the conversation and and when we reached out to Baltimore um that was a big part of their process was what is the best use for that piece of land, especially um as they was also looking just at housing, not commercial or other other developments. So, I think so. I think we have some lots specifically in my district that a lot of folks want. one for a parking lot for instance and another for a house. So this is also just going to think about how do we we don't have a process right now at the city to think about the best use for that land in real property. When I met with them it's just the whoever can pay the amount that we give 10% lower than market value. Um so there's not really a process right now at the city to look at best use for that particular piece of land. So thank you. Um I thought of another question that I'd like to ask the administration. Um why don't we just sell this land? Madam Chair, councelor G. So the process for selling surplus property is as follows. The user department that owns the property identifies that they no longer have a need for that property. So we circulate a a U petition amongst the various departments to see if there's any need for them to use that property. If not, we surplus the property. We bring it to city council for your approval. Once it's surplus, we advertise. We advertise for two weeks and then we select the highest bidder for that property. We close on the deal and then within 30 to 45 days that sale takes place. Thank you, Madam Chair. A followup. Does that uh process usually go pretty quick like you just um went through that and it sounds good? Uh madam chair and councel ground that process goes relatively quickly. Um we're able to circulate the information among the departments. We normally uh give them 5 days to respond. In most cases, uh the bulk of the departments have no need for that property. Therefore, we go ahead and advertise them. Again, we try to advertise two weeks as soon as we know no department needs that and then bring it to council and then bring it back. So, probably less than 90 days somewhere in through there. Thank you. Thank you. That's it. Any other questions? Councelor Bassan. I madame chair I just want to say uh while I think this is probably with really good intentions this falls in the category of more studies and more working groups for me uh if we want to do something like this the administration should look into doing it I don't know if a working group is is up my alley for this so I just it it's falling in that silo for me thank you okay um I just have a couple questions so you know I understand that the current um system is that if we have excess land, we deem it excess and then we um advertise it and it's basically whoever comes with the money. Um and we do not have a preference for housing in that process. Is that correct, Madam Chair, that is correct? Okay. And so for me, this and correct me if I'm wrong, counselor, but when I read this, I I heard that we were going to be prioritizing housing on excess land that the city has, which is definitely a need. Um, and so is that is that the goal here is to make sure that we're prioritizing housing when we have these excess pieces of land. Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. That's one of the intents. I think the other intent is to give people access to tools that will help us add more housing. So, right now, folks that are, you know, the contractors that I've worked with on this that build four houses, five houses a year cannot access the RFP process to get access to that land. And let's be clear, when we do this for developers, they're not paying for the land. It's free, right? So that is a different like we wrap up the land and the deal for the developer. This and that's saying we need we still need developers. We still need them to do the big projects that cost $300,000 per unit to do. We still need that. But what this is going to allow and this is what happened in Baltimore. They and it's really cool. They have a online site kind of like Zillow. folks can go look at the listings and an a resident, someone sitting in our audience that's not a developer, not a builder, could actually access that access that land, get a loan and build a house and rent it or sell it for affordable home ownership, which is also my goal is if we can do this for home ownership, we can actually help folks with housing and stability by help if they're not having to pay for the land, just like the person that built it didn't have to pay for the land, then that's going to help us open um home ownership opportunities for folks that don't have them. And so to your point, councelor Grout, councelor Bassan, about the studies, I have talked to the administration about this for a year. Um and this was my compromise without just directing them to do this thing. Um was let's think thoughtfully about how we could work together to come up with a different way to give other folks access to land to help us with the housing crisis. And for my district, this is huge. We have about 300. The other thing that this does is right now we don't have a list of all of the properties that the city owns. So in part of this legislation is in 15 days the administration has to give us a list of all of our real property lists of what we own and what's available and also what's on our adapt program list. And what the adapt program is for those of you watching that don't know this is from our fire department. These are homes that are vacant and creating a hazard in our community right now because they've been vacant for 20 years, 10 years, some of them in my district. We can't find the owner. The same rig of Maro that we hear. So, this will also help us figure out how can we acquire those, get those prop those properties and get them out and built my district. That's 300 properties that are we can activate through something like this. And what I'm trying to create here is a different way of doing things that doesn't exist now. And I think I want to be thoughtful. And so I've thought really closely about what type of people knowledge and expertise we need to really build something that is something we don't already have now. So I know we don't want another study. This is not that we're not paying someone for a study. We're just putting people smarter than me together to come up with a plan that hopefully, you know, hey, if the administration likes this, they can implement it, right? Um, if we like it and they don't want to implement it, then I would want it to come back to council. But I feel confident that working with the administration, we can figure out a different way. Thank you. And I had one more question, and this is for the administration. Um, do we really not know how many building or how many um pieces of property we have or is that just something that we haven't provided to um council or to the public? Uh, madam chair and I don't want to contradict councelor Rogers, but we do have an inventory of all properties that are vacant. We also have inventory of all properties that are occupied and all properties that may be vacant. We don't at this point we probably have two city-owned properties that are vacant. Um, so we do have an inventory all of that and we would make it available to the council or to council Rogers, but our real property division within U DMD and GSD as well has that inventory. Thank you. Um, okay. Any other questions? More council Rogers to close. It's good to know. Madam Chair, I've been asking for this list for a year and been told from the administration I've gotten the adapt list from FIRE, but I've been asking for over a year for this list and y'all have told me you don't have one. So, it's good to know we do. Please share it, but if we pass this, they'll have 15 days to share that with all of us. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right, seeing no further questions, I apologize. Um, can we confirm the vote on the amendment? We did not get councelor Champine's vote. Okay, let's vote on the amendment once more. I thought we had everyone. So, if you are in favor of that amendment, raise your hand and say yes. If you're opposed, say no. Sorry. Thank you. Sorry, my apologies. Um, all right. I thought I saw all five hands up, so um Okay. And then on to the vote on the bill. Um, this is a um do pass to full counsel. All those in favor raise your hand and say yes. Those opposed. Right. That fails on a 32. All right. Moving on to agenda item A. Uh this is 088 by request adopting the renters empowerment and neighboring neighborhood transport transparency rent ordinance. I move uh to send this to council with no wreck. And I have a second. Uh we're going to hear public comment first. Thank you, Madam Chair. Our first speaker is Anami Doss, followed by Christopher Tanner. Christopher Tanner, followed by Josh Price. Thank you so much. Uh thank you for for having me. I really appreciate it. Um so just a couple couple items here. Uh so me personally, I mean I'm a first generation American, US Air Force veteran. Uh served 20 years in the Air Force. Uh proud property owner here in in Albuquerque. Went to UNM. So I'm I'm definitely local, homegrown New Mexican, which I'm very proud of. Um, some of the challenges with this is I believe that uh this if it went into practice would reduce affordable housing. Uh, and I'll explain why. So, um, one, there's government overreach in this in this bill. Uh, so how rent is collected. Um, is definitely a problem. It bans common fees. Um, there's a registry that's required uh that violates privacy and security uh, for owners. Um there's also relocation payments that could easily be abused and it requires owners um to pay relocation costs before appeals are ever settled. Uh so that's that's a big challenge. Um there's mechan mechanics lanes that can be put on properties uh for contractors that have been hired by the tenant, not the owner or approved by by the owner. Uh so with that if unpaid that contractor can apply a lean to the property that stays with the property and then negatively affects the owner obviously. Um insurance there's just so many so many holes in this. Um so with insurance um allowing just any breed or any animal to be in that property could drop insurance for the owner. And then also coupling that with not requiring uh renters's insurance. That means there's no protection whatsoever. Um just on Monday, I found out that one of my tenants was leaving and it's going to cost me personally $10,000 just to rehab it and get it rentable again. So that's that's at least eight months of of rent that I'm pouring into it. But you know, uh thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it. Josh Price followed by Jan Loving. Madam Chair, members of the committee, thank you very much for your time. Uh my name is Josh Price. Um I do want to make clear I come here as a full volunteer, as a concerned citizen uh of Albuquerque who raises my kids here. Um I do advocate for different things. I advocate for my little league as well. Um I urge you to vote no on this. Um we can do a lot better. Um we would love to help you do better. There are so many problems with this bill. Um, for one, it points that one member or one part of our population is weaker than another. I can tell you right now that a lot of homeowners, considering when our stock of housing was built and how old it is, um, a lot of our homeowners and those housing providers are retirees on fixed incomes. Um, a lot of times that rent is literally that fixed income. Um, so when maintenance gets deferred, it's usually in spirit of keeping rents lower. Um, and that means that that person doesn't necessarily have the ability to just shell out huge amounts of money. Everything costs more day after day after day. So, when a water heater went from somewhere near $2,000 before pandemic to now all of a sudden 12 to $15,000, a minor air conditioning system is about $10,000 to install. Um, these are all things that that owner has burdened on themsel. Also, you know, rents are high because mortgages are high. If you could afford a mortgage, you wouldn't rent. But that mortgage also comes with property taxes, which get higher every single year, plus infrastructure costs, plus uh insurance, right, which is harder and harder to to keep year after year. Um, so really this is one-sided um saying that the renter poor poor renters, but a lot of renters choose to rent. The real person that's being hurt by this is only the home owner and the housing provider that is actually trying to do something good for our community and give somebody somewhere to live. The false narrative that all housing owners are villains is so hurtful to our community. I would really ask you to reconsider. Thank you. Jan Loving followed by Raul Kobos. Raul Kobos followed by Jack Carter. Thank you for having me. We are tenants M the Rentals Group. I am in favor of the ordinance 88. We are fighting for basic rentals rights and the learners don't follow the rules of the lease agreement. There is many issues. They don't take it seriously the conditions that we live unsafe. It's not fair that we pay rent. We still live in safe poor conditions. We deserve transparency. I'm moving this vote in support ordinance 88. Thank you. Jack Carter followed by Adriana Wyake. Evening, Madame Chairman, council members. My name is Jack Quarter. I am a property owner in Albuquerque as well as I own a property management company. My major concerns for this bill is that we manage single family homes only. We don't manage large apartment complexes. Our owners are retired firefighters, retired school teachers that are using the income from these rentals to supplement their retirement that is not large enough to support their living habits. So my concern is they're being forced to raise fees and raise rents because of extra administrative costs. I mean, having forced to accept animals into the home when they've just redone the inside carpet because somebody's cat peed in every corner of all the rooms and not only ruined the carpet, but the cement floor had to be sealed and stained and sanitized. Uh, so that those are some of the things. The other thing that I was worried about when I saw this, the office of the mayor's office when they sent this to you said there's no fiscal impact on any of the current appropriations. I've talked to the people in the housing authority and currently your housing inspectors and the housing authority are doing 15 inspections a day. How are they going to do more inspections and not impact the budget by not hiring more people? You have it also in this budget or in this proposal is a registration ordinance. If you're registering a 100,000 rental units in this town, somebody has to administer the entrance of that data and the upkeep of that data. And I don't think there's anybody in the system that is set up to do that now. And there's no departments without hiring excess people is going to be able to handle that back. [Music] Audriana Wayake followed by Beth Blakeman. Hello. Um, my name is Audriana Wyaki. I am a housing organizer over at Olay. Um, my job is to work with renters. Um, I door knock, I do phone calls, I do emails, I do posts. My whole job is talking to renters all day and being a renter advocate. Um this bill is um written by renters for renters. Um I hear a lot of um you know uh concerns around the cost rising for landlords, but people are currently being left with condemned homes that weren't their fault, right? Um people are being left unhoused with absolutely nothing left but the clothes on their backs. Um they have their service animals taken away. There is tons of issues with the way that we do red tagging here. Um, and at least this would put some financial responsibility back onto the um, land owner and people who actually own these properties that they are supposed to be taking care of. Um, as renters, we don't have the luxury to buy $300,000 homes and upwards of that. Um, as somebody who kind of speaks to renters every single day, I know that there are horrors um, in our living conditions and the way that we live. Um, and we are extremely far behind um, in housing law and a lot of these things that are in this bill are already things that are law in a lot of other places. Um, so I would ask that you uh, vote in support of this ordinance tonight and thank you councelor Peopleorn for sponsoring this bill. Beth Blakeman followed by Ruth Bustos. Good afternoon. My name is Beth Blakeman. I'm going to read because two minutes is short. I've been a resident of Albuquerque since June 1996. Since I cannot fit my story into that time frame of two minutes, I've printed copies for each of you and any interested members of the press. It took two months to find the roachinfested apartment where I now live and pay monthly pet rent that had a 20-year-old fire extinguisher in the kitchen, sealed windows without screens, one window air conditioner, and I have to keep a camping toilet handy because of plumbing problems. What would I like to see in this and future renters legislation? Cooling requirements that are reasonable and don't force the tenant to pay exorbitant utility fees. an end to pet rent or the practice of banning pets entirely. Safety and health requirements and signed and dated inspection accountability, including proper equipment for extinguishing fires, free flow of air, windows that open and close, building maintenance that includes proper plumbing and insect control. An end to discrimination based on age and income or retirement. an end to application fees to see or apply for a rental you may never get and you might never get your money back for, making finding a rental an insurmountable expense. No convenience fees or obstacles to paying online, and a cap on rent increases. Thank you very much for your attention. Ruth Boss, followed by Carol Bernstein. Carol Bernstein followed by Ivan Hernandez Torres. Ivan Hernandez Torres followed by Ryan Swinny. What? Okay, my mistake. Please. Carol Bernstein. Thank you. I'm Carol Bernstein and I have been in the real estate industry. This is my 50th year. So, I've experienced a lot of things over time. I both own rental property and manage a few rents. At this this point in my life, it's getting fewer. It's lots of work. I think that some of the things that have been said are very very pertinent. I personally take care of my properties and I don't manage for anybody who will not take care of their property um because it's not right and because it's a hell of a lot of work to to deal with people who don't want to do that. The concept of people owning property to supplement their retirement is very real in this community. And if some of these uh regulations go into effect that will undoubtedly reduce the number of available rentals. I think that the con that the people who are talking about the horrible things they have faced that's very real. I'm not arguing with that. It is not the case for my rentals and it's not the case for a lot of other rentals. There are landlord tenant laws from the state that that address many many of these issues and there are problems with a number of the regulations as have been mentioned uh by previous speakers. This is a very personal concern for a lot of people and if they cannot get their rents uh every month to help them supplement their maybe just nothing but social security, maybe they've managed to pay off something um during during their time of work. This is going to really kill things and you're going to be without a lot of of property that you need. Ivonne Hernandez Torres followed by Ryan Sweeney. Hi, members of the council. I just want to say thank you so much for introducing this legislation. I think it's a step in the right direction. I'm a lifelong Albuquerque resident and lifelong renter. And I um I can assure you that a lot of these things these ordinances I think would be very helpful. I actually just had to move out of my rental because the landlord refused to fix an issue in the ba in our with our sewing with our sewage and um after years and years of having plumbers come in and tell us like this all needs to be replaced time and time again we had it flood. Um if they had just you know pulled the trigger and made the change made the fixes that it needed I would still be living there today. Instead I'm living with uh my in-laws trying to find a rental unit. Um, I just think that also uh registering and so we know who owns what would be really great. And I just want to emphasize that it's not about villainizing the the homeowners. It's about understanding the severity of the situation. Right? If somebody can't afford to maintain their rental unit, maybe they just have to sell it and they can't do that anymore. But if a renter for whatever reason is outside of that, they're the situation becomes that they're homeless. It's not just, oh, I can't I can't maintain my units and I can't do this. I'm out on the street. Um, and also I think the the provisions for uh, yeah, for like I said like allowing the the renters to actually come in and say like, oh, okay, this needs to be fixed. Landlord is not making a move on it. I can just go ahead and and call the people to make sure that the place I'm living in is livable and there isn't a sewage uh, filling my basement at 3 in the morning that I have to go clean up and hopefully I don't get sick from that. So, I just want to thank you so much, uh, Councilman Feebleorn for introducing this measure. I think it's a step in the right direction, and we're going to hear a lot from a lot of landlords today, but I remind I want to remind you that they're a really small percentage of our population. Renters make up a much larger percentage of the population. You won't hear a lot from them today because they're busy working trying to make rent. And I just want to thank you all for introducing this measure. Ryan Swinny, followed by Nate Bitano. Good evening, Madam Chairman and council members. Uh my name is Ryan Swinny and I'm here today to speak in strong opposition to Council Bill 02588. Um while we do support fair housing and tenant protections, this represents a significant overreach into private property rights and imposes serious financial and legal risks on responsible housing providers. First, this ordinance undermines the fundamental rights of property owners to manage their own investments. It dictates how landlords must screen tenants, accept payments, and manage leases, stripping away the flexibility to make decisions based on the unique needs of their properties and tenants. This is not empowerment, it's micromanagement. Secondly, this bill exposes landlords to legal and financial liabilities that are unprecedented. It allows tenants to initiate repairs and deduct costs from rents without oversight, opening the door to inconsistent standards on repairs and potential lawsuits and possibly mechanics leans on the property. This empowers the city, not a court, to impose relocation costs and leans without due process. These provisions violate basic principles of fairness and property law. Third, the bill removes essential risk management tools. It prohibits landlords from requiring renters's insurance, a simple and affordable way to protect both tenants and property owners. It also forces landlords to accept cash and checks, increasing the risk of theft and fraud, especially in a state like New Mexico where businesses are not required to accept cash. These mandates are not just burdensome, they're dangerous. It will drive small landlords out of the market, reduce availability of rental housing, and ultimately increase rents for everyone. Council members, I urge you to consider the real world consequences of this bill. We need policies that support both tenants and housing providers, not ones that punish the right responsible landlords and destabilize our housing market. Thank you. Nate Boyano, followed by Roger Valdez. Hello counselors. Thank you for being here. Thank you for what you do. Appreciate it. Uh my name is Nate. I'm born and raised in Albuquerque. I'm a realtor and uh manage a couple of properties. Um you know, I'm 36 years old. A lot of my friends, colleagues, clients, um we have, you know, a rental property or two and part of the I guess mindset of us is we're not sure about social security. We're not sure about our retirement. And so for a lot of us, you know, and heard other people talk about um you know, if it's kind of their savings accounts, for a lot of people, that's that's the case. And um I don't think that people are getting rich off these rentals. I'll tell you that it's expensive to maintain these things. Um a couple problems with the bill. Um you know, this is section 14-28-8, the timely repairs. Um totally understand the spirit of the law of this. I I understand there's bad landlords and they don't fix the AC and they don't fix the sewer line. Um, couple of examples that I can think of where that could backfire. Um, you know, you got a property, there's a there's a sewer line backup, the tenant calls TLC. TLC says, "Yep, we need to replace the sewer line. 5,000 bucks." And really, you know, they could have just snaked it for $300. And, you know, there are a lot of owners that do that. So, that, you know, and they could put a mechanic's lean in the property. Um, there could be a situation where there's debate to what the repair is. is, you know, if there's a cracked window, that's kind of a gray area. Like, does that need to be fixed? Is it a habitable issue? Maybe not, maybe it is. You know, they call window company and replace the window. It's 600 bucks. You know, it may not need to be done. Things like that. Um, with the deposits, you know, the companion animal deposit. Um, you know, I'm a I'm a pet lover. I had a dog for 10 years that I love dearly, Mona. She died last year. Um, but I I get it with the pets. Mona was a good dog, but she caused damage to my house, my you my friend's houses, she stayed with a friend for a while and scratched up the trim. Um, they cause they cause uh issues, you know. So, for $150 deposit, that wouldn't be enough for most uh animal um deposits. Also, does that include HOA restrictions? And then also on the insurance policies, some of them restrict breeds on that. Thank you, Roger Valdez, followed by Sarah Rich. Thank you um madam chair, members of the committee. Roger Valdez with center for housing economics where I think do in change tank um here in Albuquerque working um some of you I we've talked with about our project at 161 Chama built 20 affordable housing units. We also work with you creation um Jesse Harden who is finished the first safe outdoor space and he owns seven units in the international district as well. Many folks are con these folks are concerned about this legislation primarily about the the repair requirements and allowing tenants to make repairs um that might not be appropriate or correct repairs that have to be redone. Um this is an additional cost. Um, I'm not sure where tenants that live in the housing that of with where that we work with are going to come up with the money to front fund um repairs like that often occur. And the relocation uh sounds great, but if you're paying $500 or $700 a month for a one-bedroom apartment and you trigger this relocation requirement, where where will you find a comparable apartment? So, we're trying to deal with rising operating costs, which are real, repair costs and maintenance. Um, so we've worked with the legislature. We got $625,000 in capital outlay money to fund a pilot project to acquire and rehab existing buildings and and not pass on those costs. as a way to show how working with local funds and local government um we can actually rehab and save these buildings keep people in place and we're also um this this was it with Prosperity Works that we got that capital outlay. So, what I would suggest that you do is convene, speaking of a work group, um to figure out how the city could put together an affordable um financing plan for for housing providers that run into problems with maintenance so we can preserve those buildings and extend their life. Thank you, Sarah Rich, followed by Ado Heric. Okay, madam chair, council women or council people, sorry. Um, thanks for hearing us. Uh, I've managed property in Albuquerque since 2001. I've managed everything from studio apartments over in the international district to luxury rentals in Placitus and Bernalo and Corales. And I'll be the first person to admit there are really bad landlords, but there are also really bad tenants. And we can't take away all of the landlord rights to protect all of the tenant rights, just like we can't take away all the tenant rights to protect the landlord rights. Albuquerque is a good market for investment because we've always been fair. We're not landlord leaning. We're not tenantleing. We're fair. And people have come from other markets where that is not the case to invest in Albuquerque and New Mexico because they see that. And you can look to other markets where you've had ordinances like this put into place and investors leave. And to your point, Councilwoman Rogers, about having an affordable housing crisis or just a housing crisis in general, this will absolutely exacerbate that. This will not make it better. And I do feel for the tenants that came up here and they're talking about they have um they have bug infestations and they have sewage issues. We have mechanisms in place already to help deal with that. Not only do we have statutory things in place through the Aurora, which is uniform owner resident relations act. We have code enforcement and code enforcement acts quickly. You can call the city and they will send somebody out there to do an inspection and they will make sure that that gets addressed very quickly. With regard to the tenants being able to hire contractors, who covers the damage that a bad contractor does. When you eliminate the renters's insurance, the owner has no protection. Even if you think that's a good idea, which I don't think that's a good idea, the owner has no protection. And there are a lot of bad contractors out there, even licensed and insured ones. With regard to taking cash, I got over $1,000 in fake cash one month. Who covers that? Me. Pado Heric followed by Mark Kellaher on Zoom. Good evening, counselors. So, my name is Ado Heric and I am in the renter class. I grew up with the advice, the cold only now airond conditioned reality, uh that I would be renting. Sound advice, um good advice from family. Um but you will be renting. Um 60% of Americans can't afford to live. So the working poor really need your support here. We're I'm worried that we're all getting taken into renting everything from the company town um from Curtis Yarvin's Freedom City, a sweat shop with no labor or tenant rights. Albuquerque should embrace more mixeduse housing, more mixed use zoning. I like the apartment above work uh sort of um model and I think that more permissiveness on that would be wonderful. Um but we have to stop pushing the American nightmare of home ownership while sweeping unhoused neighbors into El Salvador black sites. Now, it is very fair, but the I feel like the tenants are a lot more organized than the renters are. Um so uh please um try to uh you know uh put a check on unaccountable landlords. All these costs are going up. uh wages are not going up. Finally, I want to uh say that if any of y'all are renting, you might have heard that your landlord uh is raising your rent, but they won't really tell you why, but I will. Um it's because they're using uh algorithmic collusion. Um and I think that they've built a central registry already of um you know uh rent. Thanks Ad. Thank you Mark Keller followed by Anna Vido. Hi members of the council I want to thank you very much for allowing me to join by join by Zoom. My name is Mark Keller. I was born and raised in Albuquerque. I attended St. Pas High School. I have a master's degree in finance from the Wharton School and own and help manage commercial real estate properties including apartment buildings in Albuquerque and New Mexico. Regarding screening and application disclosures, it would be very difficult for us to meet this requirement. We actually use third parties to screen the applicants. So, I'm not sure how we have any control over that. Uh hello. Am I still on? Yes, you are. Please proceed. Thank you. Thank you. Regarding the companion animal restrictions being removed, many insurance companies restrict different breeds. Uh in San Francisco, there was a mauling death of Diane Whipple in San Francisco in 2001. Uh the dogs in question were both uh canary mastiffs which are uh which were bred for dog fighting. Um pets can increase wear and tear on a property. Uh I have pets. I love pets. I love animals. But I need to be able to charge for damage to the building. Ban on requiring renters insurance. I I do not see how this is a good idea. It's, as people have already said, it's a cheap solution. It protects both the tenant and the landlord. Mandated rent payment methods. Requiring landlords to accept cash is just crazy. Albuquerque, of the 100 largest cities in the United States, Albuquerque has the sixth highest robbery rate. Having to take cash increases the chance of a property man manager or landlord being robbed. Tenant driven repairs. This allows a tenant to make unbudgeted and unauthorized repairs to a landlord building and it leads to uneven maintenance standards and opens the door to misuse. As someone else had said, it also next speaker to mechanical leans. Thank you, sir. We're going to move on to the next speaker. All right. Uh, one last thing I want to say about the rental registration. Real Paige collects this Anna Barvido followed by Micah Boutilier. Go ahead, Anna. Anna, can you hear us? There must be technical difficulties. Anna, I'll come back to you. Maybe try to fix your mic. Thank you very much. We're going to move on to Micah Boutilier, followed by Alan LC. Thank you, city representatives, for your service to the community. Mike Bodelier here, real estate qualifying broker property manager. I'm here representing my 115 Albuquerque rental property owner clients who have voiced their concerns about the rent ordinance with the top concern being the ability for tenants to make repairs and deduct vendor invoice from rent. The New Mexico Real Estate Commission as a rule requiring all brokers use licensed and insured vendors, which I fully support as it protects the public. Allowing tenants to hire anyone to perform repairs is in direct conflict with this real estate commission rule and the methodology behind it. Also, this opens the door for abuse by unscrupulous vendors. Over the years, I have seen some vendors charge between 50 to 200% more creating unsafe conditions in properties. What happens when the unscrupulous vendors find out that they can charge any price they want and perform work that will not be inspected or regulated in any way? Will they begin marketing to tenants with the knowledge that tenants are not paying the bill and do not care what the price is? Will they create unsafe conditions for tenants due to lack of oversight? Simply allowing tenants to hire anyone without concern for lure or insurance without specific timelines for when landlords must complete repairs without any form of oversight to ensure competent work and safe repairs is most alarming and will lead to abuse and unsafe rentals. The Uniform Owner Resident Relations Act of New Mexico already has fair and reasonable provisions for landlord repair responsibilities and tenant recourse for landlord default. No changes to this procedure are needed. Many clients have also emailed you city reps with more concerns. Please take this feedback from your constituency into account. As it is written, my clients foresee legal battles due to the conflicts with your estate law and federal law, which would lead to delay of enforcement of the ordinance along with many unfair and landlord burdensome requirements that could lead to vast amounts of landlords selling their Albuquerque properties causing a massive reduction in supply of rental housing, which would increase rents and seems to be in direct conflict with the purpose of this ordinance. Please take the time needed for detailed review with industry and legal experts for revision of the rent ordinance to ensure the spirit and purpose of this ordinance will see fruition in its enactment. We applaud you for taking efforts to address the issues that some landlords have brought and the income to rent disparity but as it is written this rent ordinance is not the correct answer. Up next we have Alan LC followed by Chelsea Martinez. Madame Chair and council members, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak today. Uh my name is Alan LC and I'm the executive director of the Apartment Association of New Mexico. I'm speaking today to express my serious concerns about the overall impact of this proposed bill. You know, while I recognize and support the need for fairness and transparency and tenant protections, many of the provisions in this bill are excessive, impractical, and ultimately harmful to the very rental market that we aim to stabilize. This bill will not fulfill the implied intent and will ultimately hurt the residents of Albuquerque. What this bill will actually do is increase operational costs, legal risk, decrease resident safety, discourage housing investment in Albuquerque, actually shrinking our rental housing supply. It will increase rents. It will lead to a loss of insurance coverage for most a majority of the apartment communities. Um, you know, this was mentioned in comments before, but I think absolutely a big thing that is missing from this bill is the massive administrative burden that this would place on the city. There would be significant costs with hearings and appeals and education and oversight and enforcement and staffing and software. And you know, like I said, I you know, I completely understand and recognize the need for fairness, but as previously mentioned, we currently have laws in place for most of these things. Um, we do not support this bill and we urge you to vote no on it. Thank you. Thank you, Chelsea Martinez. And we'll go back to Anna Pavido. Chelsea, thank you. Thank you, councilors. Um, my name is Chelsea Martinez and I am actually a landlord of my own property here in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Councelor Bassan, um, my property is actually in your district. Um, so I'm here to voice my concerns about this proposal. And as a um, female, a single woman who owns and rents her own property, um, my concerns regarding having repairs um, done by the renter um, and not just that one, but also the companion animal um, uh, allowance as well. Um, you know, I was a renter in Albuquerque. I've rented from apartment complexes, apartment complexes, and I, um, then turned around and bought my own home, which is now the rental property that I use. And that being my first home and proud of being my first home and investment property for myself, for my future, to have someone who could be able to come in and cause damage, to just have someone come in and, you know, not have someone who's licensed, um, to come and do repairs or claim as a license. Um, you know, that's just a very huge concern as a someone who owns their own property. Uh, the companion animal I have an issue with as well because the state of New Mexico does not recognize emotional support animals as an actual service animal. And it does not take very much for someone to certify an animal as a companion animal, as an emotional support animal. So I have seen and witnessed through my job where animals that are not actual service animals can cause damage or harm to others. So thank you. And I also encourage a no on this proposal. We're going to go back to Anna Bevido. Anna, followed by Ian Robertson. Good evening, council. Can y'all hear me this time? Yes, we can. Thank you. Oh, thank y'all for letting me join via Zoom. I'm still um commuting. And I will echo what Ivan said. There's not a lot of us renters here today because we're out working to pay the rent. Um so, thank you all so much for letting me join via Zoom. And um I do have some prepared remarks. I apologize for reading, but it's the best way to get my thoughts out. Um, I'm here in support of the bill and what we are asking for as renters in this bill is the most basic level of dignity and decency. Many requirements of this bill are already reflected in state law and just need the local enforcement. All requirements in this bill are already implemented in other cities and are considered just beginner baby step and renters's rights. In what other business could one accept payment and not provide a receipt? And in what other situation could one refuse to repair or maintain an invest an investment? Nothing we're asking a landlord to do is actually a detriment to their bottom line. They will still be making profits. They will still be wealthier than us. You would think that landlords would be invested in their customers being satisfied and their property being well taken care of and their product being easy to access. If landlords are not interested in maintaining their property and taking care of their customers, it begs the question, are they providing a service to customers or are they exploiting a vulnerable population? And renters are an extremely vulnerable population that usually intersects with multiple other identities that are also at high risk and vulnerable to exploitation. as renters just in my own household. We are workers. We are job seekers. We are queer. We are disabled. We are parents. We are not white. And that's just my own family. Many more of Albuquerque renters also proudly carry identities of not white immigrant undocumented and elderly. As we are seeing across the nation, none of these groups are protected and safe because people just gave it to them. The only way that any of these marginaliz marginalized groups have liberation and peace is because they demanded it from their governments. And as a government, the city of Albuquerque has a solemn duty to protect the vulnerable. In this example, renters. Of course, landlords are going to oppose it because they like the easy money um to make the easy money off a vulnerable population that they mistakenly think does not have the power to oppose. Thank you, Anna. Your time is up. No landlord is going to be put out of business by this bill. They will simply Thank you, Anna. Up next, we have Ian Robertson, followed by Evelyn Rivera. Hello counselors. Um, my name is Ian Robertson and I appreciate the opportunity to speak today. I'd like to take this time to just talk about what happens in a market that's already in the midst of a housing crisis when additional regulations and burdensome requirements continue to increase costs for the very people trying to provide the housing. Um, a perspective that I thought was very interesting today. So, Mr. Valdez who noted as a provider of affordable housing that actually these burdens will impact affordable housing providers as much as they will typical market rate providers. That's a a position and a perspective that I'd like to echo. I think that listening to some of the stories from renters, it's obvious that enforcement of some existing Albuquerque laws and regulations is actually needed and we should be encouraging that. But some of the proposed uh regulations are not only difficult or impossible to enforce, but also risk creating or exacerbating problems uh in an already stressed housing market. It's obviously a difficult cycle because well-meaning policies can backfire and make housing less affordable. So, I think the the intent of this law, it it makes sense to me uh as I have compassion for the renters, but I think we could create um a working group with existing bodies or the housing collaborative or others to come up with solutions to some of these problems that will actually make a really positive impact for renters and uh continue to encourage the housing that we desperately need in Albuquerque. Thank you all the counselors for your time and for your service to Albuquerque. Evelyn Rivera followed by Mohamad Aljaburi. Good evening Lups committee. My name is Evelyn Ria. I oppose this amendment for several reasons. One being there is several aspects that are duplications of efforts. The Uniform Owner and Resident Relationship Act already addresses tenant rights. The New Mexico and city landlord and tenant hotline is available to assist with disputes. City code enforcement should be actively ensuring properties are safe and sound and meet city codes. Based on the testimony, there is a critical need for more code enforcement. Um, HUD addresses instances of discrimination. Adding burdensome regulations will result in un increased insurance costs, management fees, and maintenance costs that will increase rents and decrease the housing supply available to lower income households. Does the city really want to get into rental management and city relocation services? Uh, please vote no. And thank you for this opportunity to speak. Mohamad Aljabi followed by Francis Robinson. Uh hello everyone. My name is uh Muhammad Al Jabbori and I'm here as a renter and I'm with Olay and Renters Revolution and us regular folks are just tired of being screwed over by management and managers and uh landlords. Even just this month I was forced to pay for three months even though I have proof that I paid for all the previous months already. We are constantly getting move uh our move move in deposit taken. Even though we clean every inch, they still manage to find regular wear and tear or a scratch on a P uh on the walls. They'll charge $300 for a door knob. Um 200 for a nail and screw holes like for uh uh hanging up stuff. Um, we need fair and move in and move out procedures with true transparency on our move in conditions so we know what we'll be charged and why and what the cost of things actually are. On top of that, most of the times we will be charged for repairs that we have been asking for for them to repair for half a year already. Nothing ever gets repaired on time, if at all. Uh, it's usually used as an excuse to take more of what little money we have before getting kicked out so the rent can be raised for the next folks moving in. So, please vote yes on 88. Francis Robinson followed by Steve Grant. Can you hear me? I We can hear you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, thank you for letting me speak. My name is Francis Robinson. Everything I have to say is pertinent to this this issue. The number one problem with poverty in the United States is that the poor the average American does not know how anything about personal finance or how to do a budget. The second reason is because rents have become horrible. And I'm just I have rented 45 out of the past oh I'm 76 years old. I have rented 50 50 45 years of the past 55 years. And it's only been lately over the past few years that things have gotten horrible. And I'm just going to give you one example. Um I had to turn in my notice to move um by the 1st of March. I found an apartment. Um, I put down the deposit and because of the new 60 days notice that is growing, um, I wound up paying rent for two months on my old apartment and on my new apartment and utilities. My move minimum cost me $8600. And after I finally moved out of my old apartment, I was build $2,555.72 cents for repairs. Two years ago, when I moved out of um my other apartment, I got everything back on my deposit but $50. In two years, I don't think I became an apartment recorder, and not at my age. The bill is not well written. I thought so from the beginning as I've listened to the property management owners property managers and property owners I'm I'm even more convinced that's not well written. We need to have a round table with sane renters and sane um property managers and property owners. Thank you Francis. have nothing. We ren the owners would not live. Thank you, Francis. Up next, we have Steve Grant. Steve, if you could please accept promotion to panelist if you would like to speak. Steve Grant, you are muted, sir. Please proceed, Mr. Grant. Thank you very much. Good evening. My name is Steve Grant and I'm a local property owner here in the city for the last 25 years. I'm speaking in opposition to this proposed ordinance, but it may sound very helpful in the service. It has some very serious unintended consequences that hurt both renters and the housing providers such as us. Uh first of all um you know we have this u owner resident relation act that works very well and this ordinance would replace it causing confusion and conflicting systems that create legal and legal risk and confusion. The other thing too is that um despite saying it has no physical impact this ordinance will require new staff systems and city funding to manage everything effectively and that's a real cost to the public and housing providers that will have to bear. Um, also, um, as you've heard, new rules, new inspections, new reporting, administrative burdens, they all push these rents even higher than they are today. Costs are passed on to owners um that don't disappear. They get shifted to the renters, and that's that's going to be frustrating for I know the renters that are out there. Over 90% of rental homes in Albuquerque are owned by New Mexicans like myself, and many are retirees and have fixed incomes. This ordinance targets the very people that are trying to make the local housing possible for others. It allows the city staff to override court evictions if possible. Tenants can hire contractors. You've heard that already. And of course, the owner might have to pay the bill. And this doesn't make any sense at all. Insurance can be cancelled because of these pet roles that have been um proposed. Housing laws should be made at the state level, not the city, to ensure fairness and consist consistency. This ordinance creates conflict with the state and federal law, adding confusion and liability to the owners. So, this ordinance in closing is not practical. It's not affordable. It's not fair. It raises rents at the very end of the game. It burdens the local owners and it undermines proven protections already in place. I urge you to vote no on this ordinance. Thank you very much. Have a great evening. Thank you, Madam Chair. Joseph Garcia, Denise Long, and Todd Clark were not located in Zoom, so that concludes comment. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Cornelius. Um, all right, we are going to go to um a quick overview of the bill from the administration and then we will go to um questions from counselors. So, I'm going to turn it to Miss Schultz with the mayor's office. Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity, Madam Chair. Uh today in Albuquerque, 44% of the households uh rent. Um this bill proposes to create a rental bill of rights to offer some protections for those folks. Um those included provisions are things like transparency on both the listing and the leasing side, uh fee disclosures, um clarity related to deposits and repairs and renters's insurance, relocation assistance, and the registry. All of the items that you've already heard about. Uh this evening, uh you'll notice that a significant portion of the bill references state law because as speakers have correctly referenced, uh our state does have some pretty good um renter protections on the books. Nothing in this bill conflicts with what uh is in state law and seeks to build upon that. Renters might not know about that state law and so repeating and clarifying those provisions um doesn't hurt anybody. In the last year, this administration has put forth a manufactured housing bill with councelor Rogers and a bill related to problematic lodging establishments with councelor Basson. Through open dialogue and and public review of those documents, we were able to make smart changes that led to really workable policies for everyone involved. That's the same approach that we would uh request to take here today. We have heard the significant public interest in this bill. Uh and as always, we would welcome input from the counselors and further input uh from members to the public um and are open to revisions that would align with the intent of this bill. Um with that said, I would mention that we would be open and interested in a deferral so that we can work through some of the public comment we heard today if that is the will of the committee. Um I'm here to stand for any questions. Thanks, counselors. Thank you, Miss Schultz. Any questions? Councelor Rogers and then Champine. Thank you, Madame President. As a renter, I've had some issues with um you know, and again, I don't think this is the majority of our landlords, I think. Um but my own personal experience renting, I have a question about who enforces state lawy who who in the city is supposed to enforce these state laws. Madame Chair, Councelor Rogers, um I'm not sure who locally would enforce state laws, but I can find that answer for you at some point. Thank you. I think that's really important. Um because I don't I personally don't think there's anybody that's out there actually enforcing any of this. Um I used the state laws myself to get help by calling code enforcement. Code enforcement came out, they red tagged a bunch of things, they deemed it inhabitable, actually. and told the landlord that they were responsible for rehousing me because it was landlord neglect and there was a very specific um criteria that they used. Um it can't be the tenant damaging it, right? And then um and so that was interesting code code enforcement. The landlord said I can't afford to, you know, pay for her to be somewhere else while I make the repairs at the same time. And so we worked out where he let me out of the lease because I don't I can't live there. If you can't fix the things or can't afford to fix the things, um I agree with one of the public commenters, maybe you shouldn't be a landlord, right? And so I was able to do that and legally get out of my lease because he didn't enforce those things. Um and so I think I don't I I want to ask the sponsor like what in this will help us actually enforce and I think that's what I'm most interested in is the enforcement piece. Miss Schultz. Madame Chair, Councelor Rogers, in addition to the state law, this does add um new criteria that would be enforced locally that doesn't exist in state code. So, we're seeking to build upon what the state has kind of created as a baseline for tenant protections. Um I do need to follow up on who enforces state code, but for the new text in here that is specific to our local ordinance, that would be the city of Albuquerque. Thank you, Madam Chair. in the city of Albuquerque meaning code enforcement or which department specifically? Madam Chair, Councelor Rogers, great question. Thank you. Um, we envision that there are two kind of departments that would be responsible for enforcing this bill. They're both referenced uh in the back half of the bill. That would be the office of consumer protection and uh this council unanimously uh voted to create a new position within the planning department, a uh code enforcement specialist specific to housing. that is going to be a new senior level position uh that we expect to be online uh in the first month of the new fiscal year. Thank you, Madam Chair. And to that point, what would enforcement look like? Uh Madame Chair, Councelor Rogers, as with many things code enforcement related, this would be complaint based. So, a renter uh would be able to come to the city, cite the provision in our law that they think is being violated, and that code enforcement officer would do what code enforcement does, which is an investigation. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Councelor Champan. Thank you. Um I'm actually going to piggyback off of a couple of your questions. So, code enforcement um is set to do the inspections and then it goes to they find violation. um they can enforce state law or only just city ordinances. Madame Chair, councelor Champine, I need to get an answer on the state law question. I can't answer that this evening. Uh but for the provisions in the code that are specific to city of Albuquerque law, they would be able to enforce and provide penalties per the bill on those items. So if this doesn't pass or it isn't in effect right now, what is code enforcement enforce then? Um Madam Chair, councelor Champine, can you clarify your question for me, please? Well, this law is going to be you say it repeats the state and and your words were repeating and clarifying uh the current laws. So, if it's repeating and clarifying current laws, what does code enforcement enforce then? Madam Chair, councelor Champine, thanks for the clarification. Um, while this bill does uh clarify and repeat state law, it also builds upon state law that adds brand new provisions that do not exist at the state that would be specific to the city of completely understandable. But then enforcement enforces state law. That's current. Correct. Um Madame Chair, councelor Champine, they would certainly enforce the new text in the bill. I need to find an answer on if they would uh enforce. So when they find a violation, then it goes to Metro Court and a judge, civil or criminal, if it leads to that, then makes the decision if that landlord is in violation of state law. So it goes to Metro Court and becomes a civil matter. Madam Chair, councelor Champine, is that a question about if that's how the process works? kind of a statement so of clarification of what we're dealing with. Um, councelor Shampine, can I just jump in? I I think and I'm not directing to you, so I apologize. Respond to that real quickly. Uh, thank you, Madam Chair. Councelor Champine, just to clarify, uh, right now code enforcement uh, related to this issue enforces the uniform housing code, which is where we receive complaints related to habitability issues in rental housing. So that's that's the current status of what code enforcement enforces on. Madam Chair, and is that a uniform housing code of state or is it a city ordinance? It's a city ordinance. Okay. Um and then in terms of enforcement of URA, uh we typically see that take place between the parties. So a landlord filing an eviction proceeding in court or a tenant um pursuing legal action in court as well. It's we usually see it play out between uh the people involved in the lease agreement. And madam chair, it does go to court then and goes through civil and a metro court judge then makes the decision of the law has been broken civil or criminal. Correct. Madam chair, councelor Champine, that's generally correct. Yes. Uh Madam Chair, uh you and I guess we're referring to the city on the or the administration on this. You stated that um 44% of Albuquerque renters um are renters. What is the source of that number? Madame Chair, councelor Champine, I received that data from the Health, Housing, and Homelessness Office in the drafting of the bill. You'll find it in one of the whereas clauses. Uh they cited census data for that statistic. Okay. Um Madam Chair, another question. It was brought up in public comment, the repairs and such. Um, if a landlord goes out and does repairs and hires a certified plumber and refuses to pay, typically right now, uh, a mechanics link can be placed on the property in order to get paid. I'm kind of need clarification. If I'm a renter and hire, even if I hire a certified plumber and I refuse to pay them, they put the mechanics lead on the property and it's on to the owner. I'm circumventing as far as a renter that I don't have to pay him then. Is that correct or how does that work? Madam Chair, Councelor Champine, um I don't think that question is addressed in the bill and is something that I would need to follow up on. I think that's it. Thank you, councelor. Uh councelor Grout. Thank you, Madam Chair. This is for the administration. How many property owners did you work on drafting this bill? Madame Chair, um, councelor Grout, the majority of our collaboration on this bill was with tenants rights organizations. Okay. Did you work with any owner groups like the apartment association? Madam Chair, councelor Grout. No, we did not. Okay. Thank you. I know that there are bad actors, landlords, landlords. I also know there's bad actors as tenants and it's important that um we remember that. Um I can tell you that I've had people reach out to us that have are in in um apartments and they've asked they've had issues and I call up code code enforcement or encourage them to call code enforcement and I'll be darn code enforcement goes out there. They're pretty quick and and they've so I've had some good success and I hope that renters, tenants know that they can that it's there because it it is there and they are there to to service and to help you. And I think it's important that we remember that. Um I I understand the intent of this bill. Um but I think there's also a lot of unintended consequences with this bill. Um um having knowing that you're you can have any size animal in in a rented in a space when your insurance um require you know says otherwise. That's important. I also think renters's insurance is really important. That's um that's a it's a it's actually very very inexpensive. Um, I know that everything adds up, but I think it's a very important um thing that people do have require that that's protecting them and all of their belongings. Hopefully, you never have to use it, but I think it's a huge um um I think it's very important that they have that. I have I have a homeowner's insurance and it's expensive but the alternative is worse and so it's important that I have that. Um I understand the intent of this but I see so many things that will cause um more problems than um than than we want. I think that we are going to have um telling telling a property owner how to run their property and how they can um to manage their property. I don't think that's appropriate. I think that's not for government to be in their that space. Um, and it it makes makes I've had people reach out to me and say, "I don't know that I want to rent in Albuquerque or you know, rent to people in Albuquerque anymore because it's overreach." And um I think that I think this is not ready for prime time. I think it needs to go back to the drawing board and um I think you need to bring everybody involved and make sure that it's that it um that it's um tenable for both sides. I think it's very important. Thank you. Back to councelor Champine for a second time. Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh you mentioned renters's insurance and this bill doesn't require that they have renters's insurance. Madam Chair, Councelor Champine, what the bill says is that a landlord could not require a renter to purchase renters's insurance. So they could if they wanted to, but it couldn't be compulsory. Okay. Madam Chair, um and renters's insurance covers the renters's property and such. If and and I'm and I know I'm playing devil's advocate on this, but I'm I'm really trying to wrap my brain around the idea that if an electrical fire has occurred because of a appliance, say a TV, and they don't have renters's insurance, the homeowner's insurance looks at it and goes, "Well, this wasn't the fire wasn't the home. It was the renter inside. So, we're not going to cover the repairs of the fire. So, the the homeowner is out and the renters's out." Is is that the idea or I'm I'm Please can you help me clarify that and understand this a little more? Madam Chair, councelor Champine, our understanding is that renters's insurance is truly meant to cover the renter and that um anything that the landlord wishes to cover would be covered under whichever insurance uh coverage they they choose to go for. Okay. I don't really think that helps clarify it, but Okay. Um, Madam Chair, Councelor Champine, I I think that varies between insurance policy coverage about how that would be determined um, in your specific instance. So, that's uh, hard to respond to at the moment. I I I've lived in several places. I've rented before. Um, I grew up renting. Um, Madam Chair, I I just and understanding the insurance when I got the coverage with renters's insurance. Um, my landlord didn't cover my TV. his policy didn't cover my TV because it wasn't his. So, if my TV exploded and burned the place down, his rent, his insurance would not cover that. Mine would have to. And if I don't have it, then again, we're going into now the landlord would have to sue me to get repairs done in order to fix his home and I am out of a home. Um, so again, and I understand that you preface it that we would you would be open to amendments and and I think councelor Grunt really u hit the nail on the head on this one. it it's this isn't ready for prime time. Um, thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Councelor. Um, Councelor Rogers. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just forgot to ask one of my questions and I looked at my notes um for the administration. So, uh during our budget season, I talked a lot about consumer protection and how we decided to con consolidate that position with civil rights. Has that consumer protection civil rights person been hired in equity and inclusion to even do any of this work? Madam Chair, councelor Grout, thanks for the question. Yes, within the last maybe two months that position has been filled. Uh within the next two months, we expect the planning code enforcement housing person uh position to be filled. Uh so with their powers combined, we feel like um we do have enforcement authority if this is to go into effect. Thank you, Madam Chair. Is that is the is it still the intent that that person would be handling all of consumer protection and all of the civil rights issues for the city of Albuquerque? One person. Madam Chair, Councelor Rogers, I can't speak on behalf of OEI, but I could follow up and get you that answer. Okay. Thank you. Because that's what the answer y'all gave during the budget season when you were combining those positions and moving them from legal to OEI. Um the other question, last question is just is that person a city employee or are they a contractor on contract? Madam Chair, Councelor Rogers, are you referring to the Office of Consumer Protection person? They are a city employee. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? I do have a few. Sorry. Um so Mich um requirements in the state law under URA to um repair things in a timely manner. Can you talk about what that means in the state law because I think there's a lot of misunderstanding because it doesn't say that in this bill that that under EUR it's this amount of time. Can you tell us how that works? Sure thing. Um Madam Chair, uh first off, Eura also clarifies um what qualifies as a necessary repair. I think we heard public comment that someone was worried about, you know, if a window was broken, would that qualify? State law already covers all of that. Uh, furthermore, what state law goes on to say is when a tenant reports to a landlord a necessary repair, that landlord has um, I believe it's 7 days to respond, to initiate the repair process. This ordinance would build upon that to say after that 7-day mark if the landlord has not done anything um that renter could invoke some of what URA uh provides to them but they would also be able to engage in this alternative process that we've proposed here. Thank you. And what is your response to the um discussion that we heard tonight around what if they repair it and they don't do a good job? Um I my understanding is that this bill says that it has to be a licensed um repair uh provider, but can you talk about that a little bit more? Madam Chair, yes, thank you for the question. The bill does say licensed and insured. Uh so theoretically, the insurance of that um contractor would cover any damages. Additionally, we are certainly open to looking at this right to repair process. I think there was some good comment about how contractors are chosen. Um, and there could be some room to uh make improvements to this section that that might feel a little more fair to all folks involved. Thank you. And then there was a lot of discussion around, you know, everything's covered in Eura, so do we need anything else here? Um, some conversation that said, you know, code enforcement can take care of all these things. So, I just want to ask you if these things are covered um currently under Eura or anywhere else. Um, is there anywhere in existing law that requires landlords to give notice for a rental increase? Madame Chair, yes, Yura does cover uh the timeline in which a landlord has to notify a tenant of a rental increase. This bill again builds on that law um to specify how they notice and it requires certified mail, which state law is silent on. Right? So rather than just having a notice that's dropped on the front door that I've been walking around a lot near door to door. Um and a lot of those things get just blown away. This is actually requiring that there's a a for sure way of notifying a tenant if they are going to be experiencing a rent increase. Madam Chair, yes, that's a gap that we saw in state law that we thought we could fill locally. Thank you. And is there anything in this bill that limits rental increases? Uh Madame Chair, no. the state does not permit rent control and so this bill uh does not uh go there. Right. Um is there anything in state law or anywhere else right now that requires fairness in the application process so that folks are not in the situation of applying multiple times having to put down deposits um at multiple places before they can find a place to rent. Madame Chair, I believe that state law covers um some of the first sub first come first serve process. Uh again, this bill seeks to build on that by having some um more explicit procedure about what we mean by first come first serve. Can you give more um details on that? I'm not sure I understand. Um, to me, first come, first serve is pretty clear, but I know from having proposed these kinds of bills in the past that it's clearly not clear to a lot of landlords who do not follow those requirements. Madame Chair, um, what this bill does is it creates the procedure about how these land how the landlords document the applications that come in. Uh, it requires some record retention so that a tenant can uh, request to know kind of where they are in the queue. uh which state law is silent on. Thank you. Is there anything in state law that um covers the credit reporting that is in this bill? Uh Madame Chair, no. State law is completely silent on credit reporting. So currently, if a landlord chooses to report um someone who is late on their payments, they are not required to report people who pay on time. Is that correct, Madam Chair? That's correct. That seems fair. Um there is a this is not a witness situation. Um so there is a requirement in our state or our our city law that requires a registry of say businesses. There's a new business license that we just passed. There's a requirement for short-term rentals to have a registry. Is there any requirement for landlords of residential units to have a registry unless this bill passes? Madam Chair, no, there is not. Okay. Um, I heard a lot about overreach and how we shouldn't tell businesses how to run. Um, and this is not a question for anybody. I'm just going to say this. I I think that's a really interesting statement that we hear. Um, I've been on council now for three and a half years and we've told lots of businesses how they're allowed to run. Um, we just outlawed a product the other night. Like just flat out outlawed it. We've passed many, many requirements about how cannabis shops can and cannot do business, what kind of payments they can accept, how they can run their their business, how what hours they're allowed to run their business. And so, I'm just pointing out that um it's interesting to me that we are okay saying for all those other types of businesses that there are lots of rules they have to follow, but if you're a landlord, there are no rules that you have to follow. And I think that's really interesting. So, um I will just say um well, I want to say one more thing. Um I do want to clarify around the companion animal situation. You know, uh Pew Research does a study every year that said that asks people if they consider their companion animals to be part of the family and 97% of people in our country say that they are. They asked them, "Do you consider them to be a family member equal to the humans in your family?" And 51% said they do. And I'm one of those 51%. Every single week I get a call from someone who is looking for a place to live in Albuquerque and they can't find a place because no one will accept their Shih Tzu, their pity, their Rottweiler, their rabbit, their Amazon. And I'm just pointing out to people that we have learned this lesson over the years. We have learned that people did not leave Hurricane Katrina because they couldn't get on the bus with their companion animal. They they chose to stay and some of them are never heard from again. We know that an overwhelming majority of women in domestic violence situations will not leave that violent situation if they cannot take their companion animals with them. Yet, we have a system that allows you to say, "I'm sorry, you can't live here and and bring your family members with you." We know that animals provide wear and tear on on housing units. So do humans. So do children. I don't see anyone saying, "I'm sorry, you can't live here with your the rest of your family." But we do choose to say, "You can't live here with your furry feathered or scaled family members." And I think that that is a disservice to the citizens of Albuquerque who need a place to live. And we are giving them the choice of give up your animal who is sometimes the only source of unconditional love and companionship that this person may have or live in your car or live in the Aoyo. And I think that's really really a sad statement that we have that allowance for any business to say I'm sorry but your whole family is not welcome here. So, um, with that, I heard the mayor's team asking for a deferral. So, I will move for a defer deferral to allow time for them to have the meetings that they choose to have. Um, and I will move a deferral until the um, LUPS meeting in August. That's um, got a second. So, all those in favor of deferral, raise your hand and say yes. All those against say no. No. Okay. All right. That that fails. So, we will go Oh, sorry. Want to make sure there's no more comments. Okay. Uh on to the vote for the bill. All those in favor of the um moving without wreck say yes. Two. Opposed. No. No. Three. That fails on a 3 to2 vote. And I will say that there is no more business. So we are going to adjourn this LPS meeting. Thank you everybody. [Music]