This transcript appears to be from a **White Bear Lake City Council** meeting. Based on the context of the dialogue, here is the formatted transcript with speaker names added. **Note on Speakers:** * **Mayor:** The presiding officer (Dan Danneker). * **Chief Hagar:** White Bear Lake Police Chief. * **Miss Crawford:** Lindy Crawford, City Manager. * **Miss Talon:** Engineering/Stormwater staff. * **Mr. Copy:** Public Works/Engineering staff. * **Mr. Anderson:** City Attorney/Staff representative. * **Council Members:** Edberg, Walsh, West, and Hughes. *** [2:18] **Mayor:** I asked her. [2:26] **Mayor:** All right, we're going to call the meeting to order. Will the clerk please note those in attendance? Will you please stand as the honor guard presents the colors? [2:41] **Honor Guard:** Stay. [3:04] **Honor Guard:** Clean. Present arms. City White Bear Lake, the flag of your nation and a pledge to follow. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [3:48] [Music] [4:31] **Mayor:** Please be seated. [4:38] **Mayor:** All right. Item 2 A, approval of the minutes of the regular city council meeting on April 8th, 2025. I'd entertain a motion to approve those minutes. **Council Member:** So move. **Council Member:** Second. **Mayor:** A motion to second. All those in favor say I. **Council:** I. **Mayor:** Any oppose? Minutes are approved. Item three, adoption of the agenda. Are there any changes or corrections to the agenda? Seeing none, I'd entertain a motion to adopt the agenda. **Council Member:** Second. **Mayor:** Have a motion to second. All those in favor say I. **Council:** I. **Mayor:** Any opposed? We have an agenda. Item four, consent agenda. I'd entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. **Council Member:** Move to approve. **Council Member:** Second. [5:08] **Mayor:** Motion a second. All those in favor say I. Any oppose? Consent agenda is approved. All right. All right. Item 5A, law enforcement memorial proclamation. [5:28] **Mayor:** I have the great privilege and honor of reading a proclamation for law enforcement memorial week. So without further ado, whereas there are approximately 8,000 law enforcement officers serving in communities around the United States, including the dedicated members of the White Beer Lake Police Department. [5:49] **Mayor:** Whereas since the first recorded death in 1786, there are currently more than 24,000 law enforcement officers in the United States that have made the ultimate sacrifice and been killed in the line of duty. Whereas the names of these dedicated public servants are engraved on the walls of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial in Washington DC. whereas 345 names of fallen heroes were added to the National Law Enforcement Memorial uh this year, including 148 officers killed in 2024 and 197 officers who died in the previous year. Whereas the service and sacrifice of all officers killed in the line of duty will be honored during the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund's 37th annual candle light [6:36] **Mayor:** vigil on the evening of May 13th, 2025. Whereas the candle light vigil is part of National Police Week, which will be observed this year from Sunday, May 11th to Saturday, May 17th. And whereas May 15 is designated as National Peace Officers Memorial Day in honor of the fallen officers and their families. Now therefore be it resolved that the city of White Bear Lake shall obser observe May 11th through the 17th, 2025 as police week in the city of White Bear Lake and publicly salutes the service of law enforcement officers in our community and in the communities across the [7:21] **Mayor:** nation. And since we have so many law enforcement officers in attendance, I think it fitting that we stand and give them a round of applause for all their hard work for the city. [7:50] **Mayor:** All right, we have another special treat tonight. Item 5B, swearing in of a new police officer. Chief, are you taking this? **Chief Hagar:** Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, members of the council. Um, first of all, thank you so much for that proclamation. I know it means a lot to our officers. It means a lot that we're supported by our our city and and elected officials. So, thank you. Uh we're back again tonight with another opportunity to celebrate and share one of our newest uh police officers, Jordan Sullivan, with you and to celebrate with her family and friends who are here in abundance tonight. Um I'm also very proud again of our honor guard uh who did a great job again tonight. I think Captain Tomb is doing a great job organizing and and arranging for that to happen. I think tonight Sergeant Gadboy, officers Yabi and Frink all did a fantastic job. All by the way, military [8:36] **Chief Hagar:** guys themselves. So, I think they did a fantastic job. So, thank you. Also want to thank fire department uh personnel for in the room. Many of our uh law enforcement um um brothers and sisters are in the room as well. Um on my way over here, I know that our cops just got swamped with calls, so that's what's holding the rest of them out. So, Jordan comes to us as an experienced officer spending time at Cass County Sheriff's Office, the Walker Police Department, and Lakeshore Police Department, all in northern Minnesota. Jordan was born and raised in a Brainer area where she lived with her mother and father as well as her sister Cameron. She speaks fondly of her upbringing, especially uh about her love of of the outdoors and about the time that um the amount of time that she and her father spent fishing and hunting, even traveling to Colorado to [9:22] **Chief Hagar:** do some elk hunting. Might be a little embarrassing here. So, attending high school in Brainer, Jordan had a passion for softball. Um, she finished her 2019 senior year season as the captain of the title winning team with a 367 on base percentage and hitting 340. I hope those numbers are right. [9:43] **Chief Hagar:** Right. After graduating with some encouragement from her father, Jordan decided to pursue a career in law enforcement. She attended Central Lakes College where she earned her associate of arts degree in law enforcement followed by completing skills program and passing the post test. As I already talked about, Jordan spent her first couple years working first as a part-time officer and then a full-time officer in northern Minnesota. [10:05] **Chief Hagar:** One of her duties she talked about enjoying the most was when she was able to build relationships with the community she served by demonstrating a positive police presence. While she enjoyed her time with her most recent department, Cass County Sheriff's Office, she had a desire to move closer to the metro area and begin looking for departments which would suit her skill set. Knowing the priorities of the White Bear Lake Police Department, learned from her very own uh Eddie Abby, she believed her qualities and assets would fit perfectly here. So, she applied and was hired this past January. Due to her abilities and her experience, um her professionalism and her passion for the job, she made very quick work of FTO. She finished late last month, uh far ahead of schedule, [10:50] **Chief Hagar:** but anticipated by all who know her and interviewed her and whoever worked with her. While her FTO experience here was relatively brief, she was still part of a really um interesting call which earned her a unit award for the way she handled significant narcotics and gunrelated incidents. One thing I've noticed about Jordan is that she takes her job very seriously. Additionally, she keeps to herself or at least she knew enough to keep to herself on FTO. Not everybody does that. [11:19] **Chief Hagar:** Uh, it's clear that Jordan will be a leader in law enforcement, either formally or informally, given her abilities and her personality. I for one look forward to watching her career progress. Tonight, as I said earlier, many of Jordan's friends and family are here to include her boyfriend Sam, her mother Jamie, her father Eric, who will be pinning on her badge in a few moments, her grandmother Sherry, as well as um several others in the room. [11:48] **Chief Hagar:** So with that, Jordan, if you'd step up front so the city clerk can issue your oath of office, after which you'll get your badge pinned. [12:01] **City Clerk:** Please raise your right hand and repeat after me. I I state your name. **Jordan Sullivan:** Jordan Sullivan. **City Clerk:** do solemnly swear... **Jordan Sullivan:** do solemnly swear... **City Clerk:** that I will support... **Jordan Sullivan:** that I will support... **City Clerk:** the Constitution of the United States... **Jordan Sullivan:** the Constitution of the United States... **City Clerk:** and the state of Minnesota... **Jordan Sullivan:** and the state of Minnesota... **City Clerk:** and will discharge... **Jordan Sullivan:** and will discharge... **City Clerk:** and faithfully execute... **Jordan Sullivan:** and faithfully execute... **City Clerk:** the duties devolving upon me... **Jordan Sullivan:** the duties devolving upon me... **City Clerk:** as a police officer for the city of White Bear Lake... **Jordan Sullivan:** as a police officer for the city of White Bear Lake... **City Clerk:** without fear or favor... **Jordan Sullivan:** without fear or favor... **City Clerk:** to the best of my judgment and ability. **Jordan Sullivan:** to the best of my judgment and my ability. **City Clerk:** Congratulations. **Jordan Sullivan:** Thank you. [12:42] [Applause] **Jordan Sullivan:** You want to pin me first? Congratulations. [Applause] [13:07] **Chief Hagar:** Mr. Mayor, members of the council, I think the group that's with Jordan will probably head over to the police department and enjoy some refreshments over there so we can just have a minute or two for them to leave. Thank you very much. **Mayor:** Good. Thank you. [Applause] [14:04] **Mayor:** We got it. [14:27] **Mayor:** All right. Item 5C, the police department by annual report. Chief, whenever you're ready. **Chief Hagar:** Again, thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Um, I haven't The last time I did this was in October, and we had the same uh department photo. [14:45] **Chief Hagar:** Tonight, I'll give you just a brief uh rundown of the entire year of 2024. or I figured it's a fitting time to just tell you what the last year was like as opposed to just the last 6 months. So that again is a photo pretty much the same. We've uh I'll speak a little bit later of our gains and losses out of that photo. This is our organizational chart. It hasn't changed much with the exception of last fall, as the council knows, we added an SRO on the on the bottom left there to add um to to add to our two that we had already to make it a three SRO's. Department overview. Again, we have chief of police. There two captains, Captain Henry and um Captain [15:32] **Chief Hagar:** Tuma, four sergeants. Uh currently, we have 17 patrol officers. through uh we have two investigators. I'll speak to our shortages here just in a little bit. Um right now we have three administrative staff. We're hiring one additional due to a departure we had recently and we have 28 sworn officers currently um and we're authorized for 32. Again, our sh our shifts haven't really changed uh due to our a little bit of staffing shortage. We we don't have two of our patrol officers which were um power shift and they kind of covered both shifts night and day. We don't have those. That's kind of a um a luxury to have those two people in position. We just don't have those yet because we're we're short. Otherwise, [16:17] **Chief Hagar:** primarily the officers and sergeants work 11 and a half to 12 hour shifts and they're either on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday or excuse me, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and then every other Saturday. our investigator staffing. We have uh Detective Pipu Vong and Detective Blevens there on the top and we have three SRO's currently working. [16:38] **Chief Hagar:** Two at the north campus or the high school and one um south at uh what used to be the south campus. Our VSAD investigators currently uh vacant. As I said, we lost one of our administrative staff. We have three with Megan, Cindy, and Angie. um you see the variety of functions that they perform for our police department. Um they kind of are the um the heart and soul of our department kind of doing getting everything done kind of behind the scenes and they're also the the face of the the department as pe as citizens come to the window or uh call our department. [17:20] **Chief Hagar:** some of the personnel changes we had over the uh this last year. We lost Tracy Manarek as you know retired in January of this year. Another officer, Antonio Brown, uh had a medical situation uh a year and a half ago and eventually um he was forced to um to exit the career. Uh we also had some departures of two officers who transferred to different departments and then one officer resigned during FTO. [17:47] **Chief Hagar:** But our new hires are um as we already found out is um Jordan Sullivan there on the bottom right and Jordan started with JJ Vang right there in the middle on the top and uh we swore in Zach Henen um a few months ago and then two csos with Reed and Jaden. Those are the people we've added in the last um six months. [18:12] **Chief Hagar:** These are, you know, besides our patrol activities and crime fighting and, you know, community engagement and all the functions that we are kind of um public facing, we have a pile of duties that need to be done by our officers in addition to their regular duties as a patrol officer or sergeant or captain. [18:34] **Chief Hagar:** And these are a few of them. I have two pages of these just so you can see um some of the things that we require from our officers. Um, we we ask everybody that comes in the door to make sure they have one or two side hustles, if you will, in our department to make sure that they are doing other things to help move the ball up the field and help make our department better. So, a lot of them are trainers, um, or they're they serve with a volunteer group or drone pilots, um, wards committee members, things like that. There's the second page of that. [19:07] **Chief Hagar:** again, a lot of trainers, child safety seat program. Um, we need people that are trained to are certified to put in child safety seats. And um, we lost ours with one of our administrative professional who left and so we're in the process of filling that as um, many members of the public uh, rely on us often to check their child safety seat out and and we we want to make sure that those folks don't fall through the cracks. Um, so you see there's a lot of functions that we we require our officers to do. We do a lot of training. We have 12 training days per year and each training day is a 4-hour training. Um, a lot oftentimes we do them on Wednesday afternoons and those are our um our inservice trainings. We also have 12 [19:53] **Chief Hagar:** roll call trainings per year, meaning during that month we cover one topic of training and make sure we that all the officers are covered. Um that month we started with JJ and Jordan, we started an FTO academy. Um the trend um in law enforcement is not just to get your people in to start them on the street, but it's to have a little miniature academy of your own to kind of show people more than just what they learned in the state academy. We wanted to teach them how we do it here in White Bear Lake. And this was the first time we did that. and um it couldn't have worked out better. Um they do a lot of scenario training, a lot of traffic stop building searches, a lot of things that they don't get an opportunity to once they [20:38] **Chief Hagar:** leave the academy. Um and we train these guys in that. And and JJ, our other officer who I hope to swear in real soon, um his day one, somewhere around the morning of his day one, he gets involved in a very serious incident that he had already done the week before about 15 times in training. And it was just um incredibly valuable that we take these officers on for two weeks before they actually start their shifts. It worked out really well. We're starting a peer support team um headed up by a couple of our officers and our um and our uh internal train uh consultant, mental health consultants. We also sign into the League of Minnesota Cities uh patrol trainings which we have to do [21:23] **Chief Hagar:** dozens of trainings every year to just keep up our certification. Of course, Kyle there on the top left, he attended DARE school this year. A few of our officers went to the executive training institute which is the chief's conference a couple weeks ago down in Rochester. And then SWAT and mobile field force of course keep us busy with trainings or a few of our officers busy with trainings. [21:46] **Chief Hagar:** One of the things that we talked about in meetings in the past is not only trying to recruit and retain officers in the present, but also preparing for the future, kind of playing the long game, if you will. Um, we really bolstered our internship program. In 2024, we took two took on two interns. Um, uh, couple of those young faces there are interns we had last year. um next uh in 2025. So far, we have one, but we're going to end up with five or six um throughout 2025. [22:18] **Chief Hagar:** And I really feel like um three of those faces are our interns. So far, that's really playing the long game. We want to get them in our doors to see who see who we are. They're they're um students who are probably in their last year law enforce law enforcement training. Um most of them happen to come from Hamlin as we have a connection to Hamlin University and um and we're hoping that um one of them is finishing this summer and that he'll be looking for a job um this summer and I'm hoping to keep them. [22:49] **Chief Hagar:** So we have to play kind of a short game by getting people in the door right now. As you know, we've had many challenges um trying to do that, but we're also trying to build for the future. And then one of the Connor Severson there in the red. Um he is our student who is a cso and he's um he's um a grant recipient that we have through the department of public safety where we can pay for his schooling and then we get reimbursed for his salary or half his salary and half his schooling. So it's really good good program. Um besides all the construction we did in 2024 which I know that you've seen a lot of uh we renovated our evidence room downstairs. Um that was um some of the money we received from that um that that grant received in 2024. [23:35] **Chief Hagar:** We're just about completed with that. While we are going to do that, as you know, we had water damage down there. So it just extended the job by about nine months just getting all that taken care of. But we're just about we're I don't know about the 10 yard line here. We're almost completed with that. But that's taken up a lot of our of our time and energy. we have uh partners um as we have in the past. The only one that's really kind of um been bolstered maybe with our uh relationships is the Northeast Youth and Family Services. [24:06] **Chief Hagar:** Um we've always used them for our uh juvenile um issues um as well as being an advocate in our community for a few of our kind of um regulars. But this last year, we picked them up to handle all of our domestic violence and our sexual assault cases as well to be advocates for victims on that. And and it has worked out absolutely swimmingly. [24:33] **Chief Hagar:** Um I couldn't be happier with with how that's turned out. I know that they've say they've used us, but they've used us a little bit as a pilot program because they wanted to see how well it works with us and it's worked so well. I I think they have other departments kind of knocking at their door trying to trying to get the same service. So, and then of course we partner with all these other agencies for both training um advice. We we we opened up our Lexipol um policies this year. Um Lexipol is is kind of the the standard for law enforcement around the country and they create policies for um thousands of law enforcement agencies around the country and we changed those guys this year. [25:14] **Chief Hagar:** Minnesota Post Board, of course, they oversee all of our training and licensing. Our volunteer program is something I'm really proud of. Uh we have the Triad folks who are kind of some some of our seasoned citizens. Uh we have the White Bear Lake Police Reserves. We have the Citizen Police Academy. And then we have our CERT program down on the left. and and I know uh many people will will recognize those yellow shirts from Marketfest and parades and variety of different events around um the city. They are by far our most valuable volunteers that we have in the city. They perform so many functions for us and over the last few years they've put in hours and hours of thousands of hours of um of free labor [25:59] **Chief Hagar:** for us. We're really proud of of the work that they do. I really am into community engagement. I think that the council knows that. That's uh one of the things I hang my hat on. Uh just some comparisons uh to 2023. I I did a lot of comparisons these last few slides uh with our traffic and our crime as well as our community engagement um efforts. We've always been a community engagement um city. Uh we've always uh worked well with all of our partners around the city and in our area either Gem Lake um or White Bear Lake and um this year is no different. My goal was to double the amount of events we had in 23 and we did were far more than 75. We're more like about 125, but that's if you count each individual [26:45] **Chief Hagar:** incident of DARE class and each individual incident of market fest. And I decided I didn't want to brag too much. So we doubled our efforts um from 2023 and I'm I'm very very proud of that. Um, I' I've told you before, we have a community engagement team, a group of about five or six officers and sergeants and captains who um voluntarily uh want to be part of that team. That's kind of their vibe, if you will, using a word that was last a couple weeks ago. Um, that's something they really enjoy about policing. And so they are primarily the ones that show up to these events, although uh we expect all of our officers to be available and to attend events when they're on duty. Then just some comparisons to last [27:30] **Chief Hagar:** year when a not quite yet. Sorry. Uh last year was our first awards um presentation that we had um at the beginning of 2024. Uh we started an awards committee. These are the five awards that we give out. And um the people on the bottom right there, that's the group of folks that received awards last year. Uh you see that we gave out a citizens award last year on the top left to a couple of our CERT members who found a very valuable piece of evidence um shortly after pursuit. Um and then Pon Vice Sorenson in the middle there. She received two life-saving awards in 2024. [28:10] **Chief Hagar:** She made a a drastic difference in two people's lives. Um in 2024, Wayne Gillan on the bottom had a life-saving award, too. Um so very proud of of that program. Most of those awards are nominated um the officers and citizens that are nominated are nominated by their peers and not nominated by their supervisors, which is uh really encouraging that we're noticing each other for the quality work that that that we do. [28:35] **Chief Hagar:** And then lastly, I just wanted to show a difference between 23 and 24 numbers as it relates to our proactive activity and our call load. Uh you see at the very top the number of case numbers we have. Now that's everything from calls to traffic stops to anything that our officers do and pull a number for. We had 11% increase from 23 to 24. Arrests, we had a 40% increase from 23 to 24. and traffic stops a 30% increase. [29:04] **Chief Hagar:** Now, those two numbers, um it's probably maybe it's maybe it's you could assume that there's more crime in White Bear Lake due to those numbers. Uh if you look at DWIs, we only had six more DWIs. Um and we had a massive decrease, 27% decrease in assaults and domestic assaults. Um, I think it's a new strategy that our officers are employing, our shifts are employing to just simply be more proactive and we're trying to um loosen up our some of our officers administrative duties so they can get out and and be more active on the street, which is the result of the result is the 40% increase in arrests and 30% increase in traffic stops. And [29:51] **Chief Hagar:** then one more list is uh accidents. Um, I don't have an explanation for why we had a almost 20% increase in accidents. It doesn't really stand a reason if we have a 30% increase in traffic stops, but yet a 20% increase in accidents. I don't know how to explain that. Um, decrease in animal complaints, we had a decrease in burglaries, a decrease in frauds, and a just a minor increase in thefts. So, those are the numbers that we have, the pertinent numbers that I thought uh the council would like to see. [30:24] **Chief Hagar:** Um, other than that, I'm open to any questions and I thank you for your time. **Mayor:** Thank you, Chief. Um, couple comments, one or two questions. So, I just want to clarify. So, the the increase of slight increase in DWI, um, slight increase in arrests, that's not indicative of, as you said, of more crime. It's just maybe better policing, more proactive, and we're we're catching more of the criminal out there. **Chief Hagar:** Mr. Mayor, I believe that's true. **Mayor:** Very good. Uh, so first off, the the community engagement I think is great. So hats off to you. Well done. I think you know there's the assumption that interactions with police are usually under negative circumstances. The more we can be proactive about have people having good encouraging positive inter interactions with the police I think is great. So good job with that. You mentioned a [31:10] **Mayor:** little bit about more internships and that being a recruiting mechanism and a feeder. We've, you know, discussed at length at the council and in work sessions. It's it's tough out there to recruit and hire police officers, but the last couple rounds it seems like we're getting a few more applicants. How would you characterize it? Is it is it getting better? Is it the same? [31:30] **Chief Hagar:** Marginally better, marginally worse. I think that you put it correctly with marginally better. I'm I'm um certainly hopeful. Uh, as the council knows, I um I have a relationship with Century College here, uh, close to our to our city, and our classes for law enforcement have never been larger than they are right now. So, I think the pendulum is starting to swing. I don't think it's reached the user end, I guess, yet. We're still in the kind of education end. Um, I don't know what'll happen in a couple years from from now with those numbers. Um a year ago, departments were needing there was 300 departments needing officers around the state. Um as of this afternoon, 150 were. So things seem to [32:19] **Chief Hagar:** be looking up a little bit. The average um six years ago was that there were seven departments looking for officers. So we're still we're not out of the woods, but I believe that things are looking better. They're certainly, you know, on paper they seem to be looking better. We had more applicants this last um process that we just ran. Um we had more applicants then than we had in three or four years. So that's good. Um not nearly what we were getting, but I think that things are are getting better. [32:50] **Mayor:** Good. Well, that's encouraging. Thank you again for the report. Council, any questions for the chief? Council member Edberg. **Council Member Edberg:** Thank you, Mayor. Chief, the number that uh so thank you for all the numbers and the comparisons. It's useful. Appreciate it. Um the number in your report that caught my ears were we're budgeted allocated for 32 sworn officers and we've had 28 uh currently uh on the street able to able to fulfill their work. Um that gap has not decreased much in several months. And my that's my perception just listening when we we hear from HR and from the city manager about hiring process we've had a [33:36] **Council Member Edberg:** persistent gap and have been under um underdeployed. Can you just when a citizen asks me so what is going on with our police department? How do we manage what's the impact of those vacancies? [33:55] **Council Member Edberg:** Um, can how would you want a council member to respond to that kind of a conversation? **Chief Hagar:** Uh, Mr. Mayor, um, members of the council, thank you for that question. Um, so, so we have to play a little bit of a shell game with our officers and when we're short. First of all, put to set the stage a little bit. [34:14] **Chief Hagar:** In October when I was giving this presentation I was bragging to you all that we are ftoing our we are we have a backgrounding our 32nd and final officer and I felt like a hero you know because we had made it back um by January so 3 months later we were down seven. So in three months time we had retirements um resignations, two people went to different departments, injuries, it just just like that it went. We were doing great for for two years and then that happened and now we're crawling back into it again. I think that the reality in law enforcement is that it the market is just so rich for employees now. They can go anywhere they want and they'll do [35:01] **Chief Hagar:** better financially. It used to be that you can't change departments. you won't do better, you have to start over, that kind of thing. The market's just changed now. It's it's really um conducive to people changing department. So, that's one of our issues. But to answer your question, uh we play a little bit of a shell game with our officers in that um I believe our bread and butter is our patrol officers. They're the ones that are going to make the difference on the street. They're the ones that are the most visible. But by um kind of front ending that by by putting a lot of officers on patrol and not making them sacrifice, then we're we're hurting in investigations. We're hurting in these specialty positions and we're not able to do the things that um are needed as well. Following up on cases, people not getting uh appropriate followup on their [35:46] **Chief Hagar:** call on their case for a couple months because our investigator were so short investigations. So, I would say that um citizens aren't going to see a um a change in police response to their house and police response to active crimes. They might see a difference with um other duties that we ask them to do like follow-ups and investigations and things like that. [36:09] **Chief Hagar:** But, as I said, we're we're just kind of having to play a little game by moving people around and and making sure that people are in the right place to make sure that when you pick up the phone that that somebody's there. **Council Member Edberg:** Can you say something about the professional and personal toll that uh being understaffed puts on the uh employees in your in your department? [36:30] **Chief Hagar:** Yeah. Uh Council Member Edberg, I think it it does. I think it manifested itself recently with the departure of two officers to another department uh or two different departments. I think that in part um their departure was just due to kind of being short staffed and and and just the kind of the general vibe around law enforcement. Um I think that it it has takes it's taken its toll over the last five years with uh several people leaving. you know, from 2020 to 2023, we probably had 10 or more kind of departures. We had a lot of changeover during that time. Um, [37:17] **Chief Hagar:** in August of 23 is when I was fortunate enough to be selected. And then, um, I got a little too big for my britches to think that we're not losing anybody again. and and then uh October, November, December of last year gave me a little wakeup call to know that um the numbers are just um personnel just kind of fickle with the way they move around in this profession especially now. So yeah, I think it takes its toll. I think it it's also given an opportunity uh for some of our younger folks to um gain some seniority and get into some positions that they want to. Um we have kind of two sets of officers right now. [37:53] **Chief Hagar:** we have our our 12-year and more veterans and then we have very little in the middle and then we have our four-year and under folks and so um it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Uh some of our older veterans maybe don't have a desire for um advancement to go into leadership roles and I know we have a lot of young hungry officers who do have a desire. So maybe in in a in a couple years from now or a few years from now, we're going to have a really different kind of department, maybe a different leadership group, different philosophy. So I'm looking looking forward to seeing um how those younger officers progress. [38:33] **Miss Crawford:** I'd like to add to Chief Hagar's comments if I may, Council Member Edberg. Um you know, some of the things I'm told is that the toll is we have to get keep the streets covered, right? So that that means overtime shifts, that means a little bit more time away from family, it means a lot of those things. [38:54] **Miss Crawford:** And we try really hard to hire as as often as we can to get these full. Um we are down four. We have one on light or a couple on light duty. So um I I think it's used interchangeably when we say we're down. It doesn't always mean they're vacant. It means some are on light duty. um meaning that they're doing office work because of a medical condition or something like that, but it's kind of used interchangeably um from time to time. So, while we are short, we're we have vac four vacancies, we are technically down six, if you will, but I want to caveat that those two officers are absolutely making a difference in in investigations and we're thankful for that. Um, but there's [39:40] **Miss Crawford:** a lot of overtime that is being worked, but I can assure you as a council member in the community that's watching or listening or inquiring, um, we don't settle, um, on our on our vacancies. I would rather keep a vacancy than to settle for for someone just to say a number is a seat is full, um, a squad is filled. Um, and I'm proud of that and I I think our officers would wouldn't accept anything less than that. Um, but it for sure has has a toll on them, I think. [40:12] **Council Member Edberg:** So, my my final comment or question comment and question I think about yes, we hire overtime. There's only so much of that you can do. It takes personal tolls. It's the days and nights away from family, missing holidays, missing special uh occasions. Um there is a human toll that we exact and it's something that we don't have great control over. We can't hire in this isn't a kind of job where you can call up a temp agency and um hire somebody to ride around and enforce our laws. That's just not the way we can do it. And so that's a lot of this other um we do without and do as best we can, but there's a human toll. I'm not p I'm not [41:00] **Council Member Edberg:** perceiving that we are having a public toll at the moment but I think about that and I worry about that and I don't have a good answer. I'd welcome as we try and get back on top of that um chief if you can get back in the right size britches again and uh I think we'll all be happy with that. **Chief Hagar:** But Councilman Edber I um I I I appreciate those sentiments too. I I agree it's not sustainable to continue to fill every shift with one overtime officer. Um it's it's probably if I'm being honest it just starting to take its toll a little bit in that um you know two weeks ago I'm working on a Saturday night to fill a shift and last Saturday Captain Tuma [41:47] **Chief Hagar:** is filling a shift on overtime or filling a shift as a salaried officer. Um, and so we're we're starting to see that, you know, it's maybe starting to take its toll a little bit. Having said that, it was around the holidays and there was a lot of people, you know, with their personal lives. And we encourage people to make sure that they sign up for overtime when they want it. As as any agency or any workplace has, you have your people who really, you know, are here because they want to make a few extra bucks. And um, we encourage that as long as they don't get too burnt out. Um, we have a lot of people who are really happy right now because of all the overtime. We don't force people into overtime. If it gets to forcing people overtime, then the chief um to their dismay, I suspect the [42:33] **Chief Hagar:** chief is, you know, driving around in a squad car and um probably totally useless. But but but I used to be a cop once and I used to be able to know how to do stuff and so I'll go fill a shift and try to help them out. So will Captain Tuma. So, um, we know it's not sustainable and and we have to just keep playing with the numbers and the positions to move them around to to just maintain that bread and butter um patrol that that we have to have. **Mayor:** Thank you, council. Any other questions for the chief? Council member West. [43:05] **Council Member West:** Yeah, thanks so much, Chief, for all the information that you provided. Um I am particularly interested in the Northeast Youth and Family Services um that you were talking about and really happy to hear um that it couldn't go any better in your estimation. I know that there was sort of questions because we were going from one kind of provider um to like specifically only Northeast Youth and Family Services. Um and I also noticed that the assaults and domestic assaults were decreased by 27%. So, I guess I'm I'm curious, well, first of all, if there's anything else that you want to say about Northeast Youth and Family Services and that um that partnership and also if you think that some of the services that they are [43:51] **Council Member West:** providing because I know that they do provide like more long-term services when people are asking for them. If if you think that there's any correlation between the decrease in um the domestic assaults that you're seeing because of that. **Chief Hagar:** Sure. Council member West, uh, thank you for those comments and that question. I don't, uh, to your to your latter thought first, we didn't really join with NYFS until later in the year and these are all of 24 numbers. So, I I don't know that I could necessarily draw a correlation or more of a causation there. Um, I think that I wish I could tell you what what what drove those numbers. I don't know. I just don't know. Um sometimes you you want to think that enforcement has done it, you know, [44:36] **Chief Hagar:** kind of a zero tolerance on especially domestic assaults and and um kind of sending a message that and that we're going to arrest you and we're going to bring you to jail. We'd like to think that that made a difference. We don't know. Um speaking specifically of NYFS, I I I shared earlier, as you mentioned, that we couldn't be happier with them. [44:55] **Chief Hagar:** They're just a really great partner. you know, we had, as you said, a different service provider for as long as I can remember, as long as my my predecessors can remember. Um, we've used that service provider. And once NYFS started performing those, um, functions with domestic violence and sexual assault, it was a no-brainer for us. They're already a community partner with us. Um, we have an established relationship with them. [45:23] **Chief Hagar:** They're local. Uh, it seemed to make sense. uh they I can't say they upped their game because we're their only clients in that area, but what they do for us comparatively um is like night and day and um you know they keep us updated um monthly with their numbers and what you know how many referrals they had and and what they're doing for each one of those referrals. They've also, you know, kind of they they changed the game a little bit and they said, "We don't only want referrals from your arrests or your domestic assaults. We want referrals whenever you think there might be a domestic assault in that you might be there for um a theft call or you might be there for some other type of incident. And if the officer just kind of gets a a feeling about something that [46:09] **Chief Hagar:** that that maybe could use some interventions by professionals, we can refer those folks, too." and they're under no obligation to seek help, but it's a free service that NYFS provides for those people. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong, but um when we do that, and if we can make a difference before the domestic assault ever happened, it seems like a no-brainer to to do that. So, we've just kind of changed the dynamics of responding to and handling domestic assaults and domestic uh violence. So, we're really just I can't I can't say it enough. I can't be happier with uh with our relationship with NYFS. [46:50] **Council Member West:** Thank you. **Mayor:** Any other thoughts, questions from the council? Chief, thank you again for the report. Appreciate it. **Chief Hagar:** Thank you, Mr. Mayor. **Mayor:** All right. Item 5D, Manito Days presentation and resolution granting support. Miss Crawford, thank you. **Miss Crawford:** Uh Mayor, members of the council, tonight we have um Scott Bonan here to present about Manito Days. After his presentation, um staff does recommend that you adopt the attached resolution authorizing public resources to support Manito Days again in 2025. Um so, thank you. **Scott Bonan:** Yeah. Well, good evening everybody. [47:29] **Scott Bonan:** My name is Scott Bonan and I live at 2705 Lake Avenue, 55110. As Lindy mentioned, I'm here tonight on behalf of Manato Days asking for continued support of public resources. Um, a little background on Manito Days. [47:44] **Scott Bonan:** We um we are a volunteer group. We have about 30 volunteers. Um, in fact, uh, Captain Tuma was at one of our our meetings as well. But, um, you know, we're a group of volunteers that are planning this, uh, event in White Bear Lake. Um it used to be uh ran by the chamber of commerce and in the in mid 2000s and they decided to hang it up and that's where a group of individuals uh stepped in and took over from there and continued it. They've done a great job continuing it. Uh not only is this is our 58th year but it's also thriving too. So I'm excited to and honored to be a part of it. But uh the event it's it's uh the three-week event from June 19th to July [48:31] **Scott Bonan:** 4th. There are some other events outside of those dates too. Marketfest is a part of that too. And uh we're have a representative here tonight that's going to talk about Manito Days as well. But uh we have some uh a ton of events but kind of the main ones are you know June 19th Marketfest starts. Uh June 20th is the parade and the beach dance. Um June 21st is there is a vintage uh vintage boat show and July 4th is the fireworks. [48:59] **Scott Bonan:** But um you know safety is our number one priority and we couldn't do it without the support of you guys. um you know if if there's I I am a new chair starting this year so I am learning a lot but if anybody has any questions or concerns please bring them up to me uh get in get in touch with me and I will address them uh right away but uh just wonder if anybody has any questions **Mayor:** Council any questions? I don't have any just want to say thank you to you and all the other volunteers that make Manito Days a great uh great festival, a great time in White Bear Lake. I have fond memories as a kid growing up going to Manito Days and still participate in it. And I know my [49:45] **Mayor:** story is not unique. There are lots of people that have multi-generational stories of enjoying this tradition. So with that, I would urge the council to pass the resolution which lends and allocate city staff time to support the community events affiliated with Manito Days. **Council Member:** Move to approve. **Council Member:** Second. **Mayor:** Motion. Second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. **Council:** I. **Mayor:** Any oppose? Motion carries. Resolution is approved. **Scott Bonan:** Thank you very much. **Mayor:** All right. Item 5e, Marketfest presentation and resolution granting support. Miss Crawford. **Miss Crawford:** Thank you, mayor, members of the council. Uh we have the brand new Marketfest uh coordinator, Laura Lewis, here um to give a presentation about Marketfest. And then staff uh does recommend you adopt the attached resolution which authorizes $7,000 of appropriation uh for financial support for Marketfest. Um in addition to kind of all the staff time that goes into it, but we have been um giving $7,000 to Marketfest. Um so I'll turn it over to Laura. [50:56] **Laura Lewis:** Hi, thank you. Um yeah, my name is Laura Lewis for those of you who have not met me yet. Um oh, sorry. And then is do you have the presentation? Oh, do I just have to hit next? Oh, yeah. There we go. Perfect. Um, so yeah, my name is Laura Lewis. I was hired in February. Um, I was born and raised in White Bear Lake, grew up right down the road from here, actually. Um, and I'm so so excited to to take on Marketfest and and hopefully make this a great year. Um, so Thursdays, it begins June 19th and runs through July 31st, uh, 6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Um, this is all, you know, it's in its 35th or 36th year, so it's, you know, hopefully pretty well established, [51:34] **Laura Lewis:** but it's a family oriented festival to bring people to downtown White Bear Lake in order to promote the city's businesses and enhance the sense of community. Um, really the goal is to just foster that downtown feel. uh who makes it all work. We have a ton of people that help. I really couldn't do it alone. Um the city, in fact, is a huge proponent of that. I got to meet a bunch of you a few days ago, a few weeks ago, and we really couldn't do it without everyone's help. In addition to that, the I mean, public works, the police department, and fire department, and and those staff. Um Triad is a huge volunteer, CERT and other volunteers, as well as Main Street, Inc., uh my Marketfest committee, which I'll get to more on in a minute, um myself, and then [52:20] **Laura Lewis:** our event staff. We have day of staff there at the event. Um so our board or the Marketfest committee is Dan Perry, the chair, uh works for Edward Jones. He's behind me here in the room. Frank Watson is our staff coordinator and local meteorologist. Uh Dale Graham is a committee member and staff. Uh former farmers agent. uh Kristen Cranmer who's also in the room with us today. She's the Main Street president as well as um runs Kellerman Event Center and Four Deuces and a few other things too. Um Bill Fousard is the White Bear Country Inn uh manager and Rudy's explore white bear. Uh Kurt Heglund is a former Main Street president. John Lupo is the [53:05] **Laura Lewis:** former owner of Grandma's Bakery. Shannon McCarty who's uh from Soul Chiropractic. And then Sean Smith who is in the room with us as well tonight. He's the owner of EAT at Banning and Fifth. So that's my committee and there's that that's who kind of helps me make this event happen and who I look to for advice on on how to run the event. Uh overview. So we're in our 36th season this year. Started in 1989. Uh Main Street, Inc. acquired in 1998, partnered with the city of White Bear Lake. And then Manito Days uh runs June 19th through July 4th. Uh so Marketfest is, you know, family fun for all ages. We have two stages of live music and community performances each week. Uh we have [53:52] **Laura Lewis:** there's intermission shows on each stage as well. So there's even more uh more to see. We have a kids activity zone and pony rides. We have the classic car show and around 200 street vendors and downtown businesses participate each week. [54:09] **Laura Lewis:** Uh, so the theme weeks this year, Avenue for the Arts, I'm still confirming that one, but the Kitty Parade will be June 19th. Uh, White Bear Lake History Night is June 26th. July 3rd, the VFW is going to do something for Independence Day. July 10th, uh, the is White Bear Lake uh, district school district night. Uh, July 17th is public safety night. July 26th is the ASA Science and Agriculture Night and July 31st is Environmental Resource Expo. Uh vendors. So again, we have around 200 vendors and local businesses that participate each Thursday. Uh the categories are these kind of stay the same year to year and we kind of try to keep them that way. Uh the categories [54:54] **Laura Lewis:** are food and farmers market, arts and crafts, merchant services and political parties, nonprofits and community organizations, and then downtown White Bear Lake businesses. Uh we do have discounts for certain categories. So, City of White Bear Lake taxpayers get a discount. Uh special service district get half off. So, if you're in that downtown area and then businesses in the footprint are free. So, if you're a business that can just walk out your front door of your business and be in Marketfest, you can use that your storefront space uh for a booth. Here's the map. This is the the map for 2023. It doesn't change much year to year. Um I haven't I haven't received yet the current map, so this is the most recent version that I have. Um [55:40] **Laura Lewis:** but yeah, it doesn't really change all that much year to year. Uh this is our P&L for last year and our budget for 2025. Um because it's my first year doing this, my goal is to keep it flat this year and to kind of just keep everything the same as last year with the exception of maybe one thing. And that's because the person who did this event before me had her own marketing company where she um paid for certain services as part of her company. And now that she's not doing it and I am, Marketfest is going to kind of accrue additional cost to kind of manage some softwares and things like that. Other than that, we're gonna kind of keep it pretty pretty flat and try to maintain it that way. [56:27] **Laura Lewis:** Um I I'll just Yeah. Um the balance sheet for last year, uh it's up here. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but so you guys can kind of see it. We we kind of notable at the uh our opening balance was just under 60,000. Uh we our retained earnings were just over 10 or just under 11,000 and then our net income was 28. That number is as of September of last year. And so at that time we still had some outstanding accounts to be paid out. So really we ended the year in December with less than that 12 to 14,000 less than that number. Any questions on the budget stuff? [57:14] **Laura Lewis:** Okay. Um Marketfest request. So this is kind of you know year to year that this is is kind of the same. I think um what we request uh from the city of White Bear Lake funding of that $7,000 uh use of downtown White Bear Lake streets and sidewalks uh Washington, Banning, Fourth, Third and the back parking lot which is that parking lot kind of behind Good Things. Um continued support of public works use of public works trucks and trailer for transportation and storage of chairs, barricades and those things. uh Marketfest participation, fire trucks, emergency vehicles, paid officers, uh two booths each week, public safety week [57:59] **Laura Lewis:** July 17th, and then environmental expo on Fourth Street is July 31. In return, Marketfest will hold Marketfest on seven consecutive Thursdays, provide quality activities and entertainment in a safe setting, and then promote White Bear Lake as a destination city. [58:18] **Laura Lewis:** That's all I have for you guys this evening. Thank you all for your time and for being here tonight. Do I Is there any questions for me? **Mayor:** I don't have any questions like like Manito Days. I'll just say thank you to you and all the volunteers and all the businesses that make Marketfest the great seven-week event that it is. So, we look forward to another good one. Uh unless council has any questions, I'd entertain a motion to approve the resolution authorizing city's contribution of $7,000. **Council Member:** So move. **Council Member:** Second. **Mayor:** We have a motion to second. Any further discussion on this? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. **Council:** I. **Mayor:** Any oppose? [58:51] **Mayor:** Motion carries. The resolution is passed. Thank you very much. **Laura Lewis:** Thank you. [59:03] **Mayor:** All right. Item 6A, the 2024 storm water pollution prevention program. Miss Talon, whenever you're ready. [59:28] **Miss Talon:** Hey, good evening, Mayor and members of council. Tonight, I'm going to be presenting on the 2024 activities as part of our MS4 general permit and storm water pollution prevention program. [59:45] **Miss Talon:** So MS4 stands for municipal separate storm sewer system. That is a system of streets, curb and gutters, storm sewer and ditches that convey convey storm water runoff to the waters of the state which includes lakes and wetlands. These MS4s are owned by public entities such as us. [1:00:06] **Miss Talon:** And the MS4s in Minnesota must satisfy requirements of the MS4 general permit, which is a federal permit. And the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency is the overriding agency of that permit. Something changed. [1:00:28] **Miss Talon:** Is that okay? It sounded different. Uh the purpose of the permit is to reduce the amount of pollutants entering state waters from the storm water system. So examples of these storm water pollutants is litter, sediment, phosphorus from fertilizers, leaves, and grass clippings, chloride from winter salt applications, bacteria and other pathogens, and different types of chemicals such as what could come off of a car. [1:00:57] **Miss Talon:** So the purpose is accomplished through the development and implementation of a storm water pollution prevention program or SWPPP for short. And this SWPPP has six components called minimum control measures or MCMs. We really love our acronyms in this field. So there's six minimum control measures. I have those listed on the slide. Plus MS4s that convey storm water to an impaired water body have additional requirements. So I'll go through each of these individually. The first minimum control measure is public education and outreach. So we distribute educational materials to inform the public on the impacts of storm water discharges. So we accomplish this through our city website, our spring and fall newsletter, [1:01:45] **Miss Talon:** White Bear Press articles, and our social media platforms. We also partner with water management organizations and others to host water related events and conduct workshops. So this these two photos on the slide are from our uh Facebook posts. So we post periodically about different events that we have and smart salting tips and other pollutant reduction types of education. [1:02:15] **Miss Talon:** We also have the city website which has information on stormwater related topics. It's whitebearlake.org. Stormwater management information you can find under the your government tab in engineering. There's also a yard and garden section under the services tab and environment. We put numerous uh articles in our newsletters, our spring and fall newsletter. So in 2024, this is a screenshot of just some examples of the articles that we put in our newsletters. So in the spring we talk about street sweeping, reporting illicit discharges, dog waste, yard waste, and in the fall we focus more on uh [1:03:00] **Miss Talon:** responsible salting for the winter winter time. And we periodically put the medicine dropbox information in the newsletter as well. And as Laura mentioned, uh, our Environment Advisory Commission hosts an environmental resources expo the last night of Marketfest. So in 2024, that was July 25th. And one of our environmental commission members is here tonight. Bonnie, I think that's that's it. I think that I see. Um, so they host this every year. In 2024, there were 15 exhibitors and five electric cars. And these are just some photos from the 2024 event and VLAWMO and one other watershed [1:03:47] **Miss Talon:** district was represented. The DNR and the get the lead out program was also represented. So we have some water focused exhibitors at the event. And in 2025, the environmental resources expo will be held on July 31st. [1:04:05] **Miss Talon:** MCM2 is public participation and involvement. We must provide at least one opportunity annually for the public to provide input on our SWPPP. So that is what this meeting is for. And we also provide other opportunities for public participation and involvement. For example, we market the Adopt-a-Drain program where participants can go to adopta-drain.org, or look at a map and adopt a storm drain in their area and then they they sweep leaves, grass clippings, fertilizers, other pollutants off the street so it keeps it from getting into that storm drain. So we have been a member of this Adopt-a-Drain program since [1:04:51] **Miss Talon:** 2019. The program is run by Metro Watershed Partners and they provide an annual report each year. So this is a screenshot showing uh one page of the annual report and it shows that there are 285 drains adopted as of 2024 with 179 participants so far. [1:05:16] **Miss Talon:** We also partner with Rotary Club and VLAWMO on restoration projects at Rotary Nature Preserve. And as part of that, we work with the Birch Lake Elementary School to conduct a field days to teach the kids about what we're doing with the restoration projects. And this year or in 2024, we had a fall event for the third through the fifth graders. So, here's some photos of that event. There were four activity stations. There are macro invertebrates, a nature walk, a scavenger hunt, and an edible campfire. [1:05:52] **Miss Talon:** And in 2025, there will be a spring event for the K through 2 graders. And that'll be held the end of May. We don't have it scheduled quite yet, but that's coming up. And then we'll also do another fall event in 25 for the third through fifth graders. [1:06:11] **Miss Talon:** The Environmental Advisory Commission also held a buckthorn removal event on Hano's Pond along the north end of Hano's Pond in the buffer area and they partnered with Ramsey Washington Metro Watershed District and there it was a great turnout. There were 20 plus volunteers that were included residents, the watershed district, citizen advisory commission and staff and our park advisory commission to name a few. And they plan on doing another event this fall at the same location because there's a lot of pond to go around yet. [1:06:47] **Miss Talon:** They just did the north end. So minimum control measure three is illicit discharge detection and elimination. An illicit discharge is any discharge either accidental or on purpose into a storm sewer system, river, stream, wetland or lake that's not composed of only storm water. So we have developed a program to detect detect and eliminate these discharges. So we have an ordinance. We train staff annually to identify and report illicit discharges and we encourage residents to report suspicious activities. We let them know about this program mainly through our newsletter. Um, and we have procedures for locating and eliminating these [1:07:33] **Miss Talon:** sources and for responding to spills. So, the next couple slides are examples of illicit discharges. And a lot of these photos are from actual reports from the community. So, examples include concrete washwater, um oil that has gotten into the into a lake, sediment from construction sites that get into the street, pet waste, fertilizers and pesticides, grass and grass clippings and leaves that are in the street. [1:08:07] **Miss Talon:** That's a very common one that we see. So for residents to report an illicit discharge, if it's an emergency situation, dial 911. In non-emergency situation, they can call the engineering department or they can use our online form on our website, which is again whitebearlake.org, the services tab, and then report a problem. In 2024, there were six reports of illicit discharge. There were three reports of blowing leaves or glass grass clippings into the street. There's one report of dumping soil into Vanney Lake, sediment at an outfall, and a report of some rusty 5-gallon drums that were [1:08:53] **Miss Talon:** sitting outside in a parking lot. The fourth minimum control measure is construction site runoff control. So we're required to implement and enforce a construction site storm water runoff control program to reduce pollutants from construction activity. [1:09:11] **Miss Talon:** Specifically a lot of the main pollutant in construction activity is soil. So there's we have an erosion and sediment control ordinance. We conduct site plan reviews. So mainly the engineering department does the site plan reviews for erosion and sediment control. And there's site inspections and procedures for reports of non-compliance. So, the building department inspects both commercial and residential construction sites for erosion control. And these two photos show perimeter erosion control. The one on the left is not working properly. So then when it rains, that soil runs off into the street and then gets into our lakes and wetlands. And on the right is [1:09:56] **Miss Talon:** proper sediment control where it is being held on site and not allowed to go downstream. Minimum control measure five is post construction runoff management. So when there is either a public project, so our street projects are included in this or private development, if they trigger so much impervious surface, then they need to create a storm water treatment facility on site to treat their runoff before it discharges off their site. [1:10:33] **Miss Talon:** So we have an ordinance and storm water design standards in place for this and the engineering department conducts site plan reviews to ensure that the sites are meeting our storm water standards and we also require a long-term maintenance agreement so these storm water facilities are actually maintained properly so they function and this oh I just have to mention you know I'm sure you know this one well the Wildwood Row Homes This is one of the many that we have uh reviewed in 2024. And this picture on the left shows the start of construction. So they have the nice perimeter silt fence control up. And so that was taken in January when it first [1:11:20] **Miss Talon:** started. MCM6 is pollution prevention good housekeeping. This is mainly public works that implements this program. So, at city facilities, there's waste disposal requirements, fleet maintenance, and stockpile requirements to keep pollutants from entering the storm sewer system. Um, there's there's landscape maintenance to make sure that any fertilizers or uh leaves, grass, clippings are not in the street. Winter street maintenance, which includes salting the streets. And then the storm water facilities that the city owns to treat storm water before it discharges um we have to inspect and maintain those as well. So the public [1:12:06] **Miss Talon:** works department mainly does that. And then there's employee training for this as well. So street sweeping, the street department sweeps all streets in the spring and fall and if they have time they do that a couple times both seasons and then they weekly sweep downtown and around the lake. And we have in the last couple years partnered with Ramsey Washington Metro Watershed District for enhanced sweeping in one of their priority areas on the south end of town. [1:12:33] **Miss Talon:** So they hire a private street sweeper to sweep that priority area in addition to what we do. And of course, winter street maintenance public works staff attends annual smart salt training and then they ensure that their equipment is not um salting overly salting the roads. We you know it's all about safety but we we try not to oversalt unnecessarily. And the sewer department inspects all of our treatment structures and removes sediment as needed. Some of our structures include swirl separators and sump manholes, and that collects sediment before it discharges into the lakes. There's underground infiltration [1:13:20] **Miss Talon:** pipes that are used to infiltrate additional storm water into the soil. There's pre-treatment structures like the one in the photo at Matoska Park. So that's an above ground structure that collects sediment off the parking lot at Matoska Park and right before it enters the lake because the lake is right downstream of that. So they maintain that at least a couple times a year and removes sediment from there. [1:13:46] **Miss Talon:** And then there is an iron sand filter on at Otter. So that removes phosphorus from a large drainage area in the city and there is a company that's hired to maintain that. So they sweep this or they rake the sediment off the top of this this iron sand filter that comes from that watershed and then the street department comes with their vac truck and then sucks up that sediment and disposes of it properly. And we hire natural shore technologies to maintain our rain gardens. So rain gardens are another treatment facility that we use to capture pollutants. So there's six total and they we the contractor weeds and mulches [1:14:33] **Miss Talon:** and then cleans those inlets and remove sediment. So impaired waters, there's an impaired waters program as part of this MS4 permit. And the purpose of that is to restore lakes that are impaired for specific nutrients. And common or pollutants, I should say, common pollutants are nutrients sediment chloride and bacteria. And the MPCA did testing on Minnesota lakes and created this list of impaired waters that don't meet a certain standard. And that's called a 303D list. And MS4s that discharge to these impaired waters are assigned pollutant loadings called a waste load [1:15:18] **Miss Talon:** allocation or WLA, another acronym. And an example of an impaired water within the city is East Goose Lake. So you could see on the screen there's an underwater photo of East Goose Lake and it has so much algae in it from excess nutrients that you can't see through the water column. U on the other hand Birch Lake which is also in our city is not impaired for nutrients. So you can see the the difference underwater and how much clearer it is and there's a lot more diversity of aquatic species and there's um aquatic plants as well and all of that keeps it in that clean [1:16:04] **Miss Talon:** state. So we are assigned numerous waste load allocations for water bodies. So there's seven lakes that were assigned a nutrient waste load allocation. Goose Lake as I mentioned is in our community. So west and east. [1:16:22] **Miss Talon:** There's Bald Eagle Lake, Coleman Lake, Lake St. Croix, Peltier, Centerville Lake, and Wilkinson Lake. And those are not within our community, but we drain to them ultimately. And good news is Coleman Lake and Bald Eagle Lake were both delisted from the impaired waters list in 2024. [1:16:41] **Miss Talon:** So that means they are not impaired for nutrients anymore. So there's over 20 years of work that was done to get these lakes off the impaired waters list. We also have waste load allocations for two creeks, Rice and Lambert Creek for bacteria impairment and then two lakes for chloride impairment. [1:17:08] **Miss Talon:** So for example, MS4s that are assigned a waste load allocation for nutrients such which we are we have to report the nutrient reduction progress in an MS4 annual report to the MPCA. So what that looks like is, for example, this curbcut rain garden in the photo was installed in 2018 as part of a voluntary program through our street reconstruction projects. And that is within the watershed of Bald Eagle Lake. And so our report would say, well, we we put this curb cut rain garden in and it takes out 0.4 pounds per year of phosphorus. [1:17:50] **Miss Talon:** That’s an example of the projects that we work on, mainly capital improvement projects to reduce phosphorus to the various lakes that are impaired. So for the delisted lakes, we no longer are required to report progress to the MPCA, but we do want to continue to partner with the watershed districts on other projects within those watershed areas so we can maintain that water quality status. So here's a couple examples of some capital projects that were done in 2024. [1:18:31] **Miss Talon:** the as I mentioned that we have a volunteer rain garden program through our street reconstruction projects. So in 2024 five curbcut rain gardens were installed in the Lambert Creek subwatershed area. So Lambert Creek's impaired for bacteria and the nutrient levels are actually increasing in that stream. So we we need to be careful of that as well and try to reduce nutrients to that creek. [1:18:59] **Miss Talon:** So with those five curbcut rain gardens that were installed as part of our project, there is an estimated 67 pounds per year phosphorus reduction, 122 pounds of sediment removal and over 268,000 gallons of water that's taken out of that system and away from Lambert Creek. And just to mention Lambert Creek, so we are in the Lambert Creek subwatershed. So any rainfall that falls on this property, I mean there's acres of it. Um that goes into Lambert Creek, but that ultimately ends up in Lake Vadnais, which is the drinking water supply for over 400,000 people in the St. Paul area. So it's an important watershed to [1:19:47] **Miss Talon:** to keep clean. Another example is a project at Oak Knoll Pond. I'm sure you're you're very familiar with this one already. It started in 2023, wrapped it up in 2024, and we were it's a demonstration project to see if spent lime, which is a byproduct of water softening at our treatment plant. See if spent lime can reduce phosphorus within Oak Knoll Pond. [1:20:16] **Miss Talon:** So the theory is it binds to phosphorus within the water column to reduce nutrients, improve the water quality, and ultimately what this does is improving the water from Oak Knoll Pond that goes into Goose Lake, which is the water body that's on the impaired waters list. [1:20:34] **Miss Talon:** So VLAWMO is doing a lot of monitoring of this. So we should have some results later this year that I I will share with you. And lastly, MS4s that are assigned a waste load allocation for both bacteria and chloride impairments, which we are, the new MS4 general permit requirements will require us to have an ordinance for pet owners to properly remove and dispose of pet waste on city property, an ordinance requiring proper salt storage at commercial, institutional, industrial facilities, and um distributing educational materials on pet waste and salt use at least once per year, which is what we do in our newsletter. And I just want to say that [1:21:20] **Miss Talon:** partners are key to these projects. Um, the Environment Advisory Commission, the watershed districts, Rotary Club, these are three members of the Rotary Club that we we meet with almost monthly to plan events and restoration projects at Rotary Nature Preserve. So that's on the left, John Channon. middle is Carol Nelson and on the right is Leo Schulz. [1:21:45] **Miss Talon:** And him and I actually were out at Rotary Nature Preserve this morning staking locations for trees for their Arbor Day planting day on Saturday. So there's 15 trees there planting and it's looks like good weather. So last year it rained on them. [1:22:03] **Miss Talon:** And that's it. I um if you have any questions, I'd be happy to great answer them. **Mayor:** Thank you for the detailed report, Miss Talon. Before we get to questions, um, this is scheduled for a public hearing, so I will open it up, uh, the public hearing for the 2024 storm water pollution prevention program. I do not have any signups on my list, but if anyone would like to speak to this, they may do so now. Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and bring it back to the council. Thank you again, Miss Talon. I don't have any comments or questions. [1:22:32] **Mayor:** Keep up the good work. Sounds like you guys are staying busy. Council, do we have any questions? Council member Edberg. **Council Member Edberg:** Thank you, Mayor, Miss Talon. So, Goose Lake has been an issue for a long, long time, decades. [1:22:49] **Council Member Edberg:** Um, we have we clearly are doing things. Okay. How much are we moving the needle and how much how long could we project that it's going to is our work being effective in So, we saw a couple of lakes delisted. That's great. Yeah. But some of our um most egregious situations um are we making progress and how do we know and uh when might we celebrate another delisting? [1:23:22] **Miss Talon:** That's a very good question. Uh Goose Lake is an interesting one. Um there's watershed there. There's nutrients getting into the lake through the watershed activities, but this one is unique also because it's internal loading. So there's a lot of phosphorus from a long time ago that's now bound to sediment within Goose Lake. And so the main driver of the impairment, what they're saying is that internal phosphorus loading. So that would have to be dealt with a little differently. [1:24:01] **Miss Talon:** Right now we're just looking at uh ways to do that and spent lime is one of the options. So alum treatment, so it's aluminum sulfate that was used in Bald Eagle Lake for example um along with a lot of watershed based projects. So in combination that's what it took. It took many years of those types of projects. [1:24:27] **Miss Talon:** So we were looking at Oak Knoll Pond first before we tackled Goose Lake to see how effective spent lime is. So we are still looking into that. So it's it was just completed last year. So that we need some data on that to see if that would be effective to use within Goose Lake. [1:24:48] **Miss Talon:** So timeline-wise, I don't have a great answer for you on that right now, but it's continued partnership with VLAWMO on that. They they're they've been a great partner and they're the ones that really um have that expertise that can drive these projects forward along with our partnership as well. **Council Member Edberg:** I might one more question. So shifting gears slightly, some of our water, some of the waters that we are talking about here are actually lakes. They are p, you know, they've been longstanding uh bodies of water. We have a whole bunch of other things that we euphemistically call ponds uh that are really storm water retention facilities marketed as ponds. [1:25:37] **Council Member Edberg:** Um so pre-bi and and a bunch of others that um mostly serve created by developers or augmented by developers. Are those subject to MS4 uh uh governance and and monitoring as well or do they fall into a different category? [1:25:55] **Miss Talon:** Um, Council Member Edberg, the public waters that are required by MS4s and that are on impaired waters lists are lakes, public lakes owned by the DNR. uh the the other water bodies that we call ponds here are many of them are still public water bodies but they're wetlands and so they are not uh under the same requirements as the MS4 lake water bodies are but they are public considered public water. **Council Member Edberg:** So PB Lake, Hiners Pond... Barney, what do we know about the impaired nature of those bodies of water and are we active in treating or trying to um uh [1:26:43] **Council Member Edberg:** improve the water quality of those bodies. **Miss Talon:** Oh yeah, Council Member Edberg, the state is the one who does the testing to put the water bodies on the impaired waters list. So I am not aware of any testing that's been done by the MPCA on these public water wetlands just because they're not they don't fall under this permit. But we whenever there's a street project, we do treatment. So there's requirements just through our standards and the watershed district rules to add treatment. And so wherever we have projects, that's where treatment goes. So there there was opportunities and [1:27:29] **Miss Talon:** there has been opportunities to to treat storm water in all of those subwatersheds and eventually there will be other opportunities too. **Council Member Edberg:** Thank you. **Miss Talon:** Yeah. **Mayor:** Council, any other questions or comments? Council member West. **Council Member West:** Yeah, just really quick. Um I appreciate everything that you do. Um being the representative on VLAWMO. Um, I'm kind of keeping track of of what we're doing and there's just so much work that's done. I I continue to be really impressed with that. Um, and also just wanted to mention because I'm not sure where else to mention it. The newsletter um both your part and all of the other parts um is just really chalk full of really good information. I always find it so. And just wanted to make mention [1:28:14] **Council Member West:** of that for you and everybody else who's working on the newsletter. Kelly, I see you. **Miss Talon:** Oh, Council Member West, thank you so much. I appreciate that. And we we really definitely appreciate our partnership with VLAWMO. Um they Yeah, we work with them so very closely on everything and so yeah, we really value that partnership. So I appreciate it. [1:28:37] **Council Member West:** Thank you. **Mayor:** Very good. Thank you again. Appreciate it. **Miss Talon:** Thank you. **Mayor:** All right. Item 7 A, unfinished business. We have a second reading of an ordinance amending the municipal code regarding dogs. Mr. Anderson. [1:28:53] **Mr. Anderson:** Thank you, Mayor and Council. Uh so we're here for a second reading of the dog ordinance that we talked about at the uh last meeting. Uh we covered it in quite a bit of detail at that meeting. The ordinance, just as a reminder, uh is intended really for two primary reasons. [1:29:10] **Mr. Anderson:** one to require that dogs be restrained on a leash at all times when not located on either private property um with the property owner's consent or um in a private motor vehicle. Um and then two, to formally uh codify the long-standing rule in uh the the dog beach area at Matoska Park that dogs be restrained on a leash no longer than 30 feet in length um when they're in that area. Um you'll recall the council um had a public hearing that evening at the at the last meeting. There were no public comments uh made. The council was generally receptive and supportive of the the ordinance as drafted. Um and so addition in addition to the ordinance itself, there's also an accompanying summary [1:29:56] **Mr. Anderson:** resolution um that if the ordinance is adopted, I would recommend uh approval of so that staff can uh publish just a a short summary rather than the entire ordinance in the in the newspaper. And I'd be happy to answer any questions. **Mayor:** Very good. Thank you, Mr. Anderson. Council, what would we like to do? Would anyone like to move approval of the ordinance? **Council Member:** I will move approval. **Mayor:** Very good. Do I have a second? **Council Member:** Second. **Mayor:** Motion, a second. Any further discussion on this, Council Member Edberg? **Council Member Edberg:** So, we had one question raised at our uh first uh discussion about the safety of a 30-foot leash in the water. Did we have was there any ability to gather any information on that or what the what current recommended practice is around leashing dogs when they are swimming or in in water? [1:30:55] **Miss Crawford:** Mayor, council member Edberg, I'll I'll take that and Mr. Copy, I don't know if you have anything to add. Um I believe that how I interpreted that question was um police data from White Bear Lake and I don't we don't have that data. I did not do further research regarding um leashing a 30-foot leash in in a beach. [1:31:15] **Miss Crawford:** Um unofficially I would say it's a little unique to have um a beach area like this and to have dogs on leashes in that beach area. Um but I don't have data to support that information. [1:31:32] **Mayor:** Thank you. Well, on that note, I think it's a I think it's a valid concern. And I would just note that regardless of what we do with this ordinance, that's been what the we'll call it a rule has been to have a 30-foot leash since 2017. I don't think we've seen any issues. I would suspect a lot of the reason we haven't seen any issues was because there was widespread violation of the leash law. [1:31:55] **Mayor:** Um so I think that remains to be seen, but I think your point is well taken. That's something we should monitor assuming people comply and see where it goes. **Mr. Anderson:** And just to add to mayor and council to that question, um I did just confirm that most of those retractable leashes, the the longer version of them is 30 feet in length. So I I assume that's where that number came from. I don't think it was pulled out of thin air. Um but I just assume that a lot of people have those those types of leashes. And so that' why that number is there. And to the mayor's point, um that has been the rule for um going on eight years now. So, um, just some sidebar to that discussion. **Council Member Edberg:** Thank you. That's helpful. [1:32:37] **Mayor:** All right. Any further discussion? All right. I have a motion to second on the moving approval of the ordinance. All those in favor say I. **Council:** I. **Mayor:** Any opposed? Motion carries. Ordinance has passed. We have an accompanying resolution authorizing summary publication of the ordinance. I'd entertain a motion to approve the resolution. **Council Member:** [Move] **Council Member:** Second. **Mayor:** Have a motion, a second. Any further discussion on that? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. **Council:** I. **Mayor:** Any opposed? Motion carries. The resolution is approved. Thank you, Mr. Anderson. [1:33:05] **Mayor:** Item eight, new business. Nothing scheduled. Item nine, discussion 9A, Fifth Street and Banning Park Avenue parking lot reconstruction concept layout options. Mr. Copy. **Mr. Copy:** Uh, mayor, members of the council. So, following um a motion at the March 25th meeting to hold a public hearing regarding uh trees in the fifth and banning uh parking lot uh portion of the downtown parking lot reconstruction project. Um council held that public hearing on April 8th. um heard overwhelmingly uh from uh residents uh both at the hearing as well as through email and uh phone calls that they uh really wanted to see the uh four bur oaks that are located in the uh in [1:33:52] **Mr. Copy:** that parking lot uh to be saved as part of the uh reconstruction project. Um so following that um council had given staff direct general direction after the or following the hearing in their discussion to look at options to um parking lot layouts that would save the um four trees as well as look at the uh or the uh three trees uh closest to Banning Avenue in the large uh um grass area at the bottom of the screen or picture in the on the screen. [1:34:25] **Mr. Copy:** Um the fourth tree is closest to the uh hardware store. Um is alone and was um um generally um uh evaluated that his condition was declining due to the area that it's in um and uh um just the condition of the overall tree. And that was done by Rainbow Tree Care. Um so they evaluated all the trees. The three in the larger grass area were in generally good condition. Um so the uh picture on the screen depicts how the uh parking lot exists today and has existed for some time. Um staff went back uh following the uh April 8th uh public hearing and uh based on council direction looked at several options that were included in [1:35:11] **Mr. Copy:** your packet. Uh those two rose to the top. Um before I uh flip to the uh um layouts that we looked at, uh we did we we sat down staff as well as the consultant that we're using to look at some of these. Um looked at many many different layouts. um uh trying to pick our brains as far as what's going to be the best for that lot from a parking uh stall count uh protection of the trees um flow and uh accessibility to the parking lot. We looked at different one-way options. We looked at diagonal parking. Uh we looked at closure and relocation of entrances which um you know looking at can we close an entrance to um increase those parking lot counts [1:35:57] **Mr. Copy:** or better flow in the uh parking lot. um really didn't help based on the uh just the overall available um you know saving the trees, the available area that um was left to uh actually allow for parking and drive aisle. [1:36:14] **Mr. Copy:** um what we came up with and was included in your packet isn't a whole lot different from what is out there today, but um generally I'm going to flip back uh and forth a little bit between uh this existing uh photo and the concepts. Um so concept one is uh um again generally follows the layout that is there. Um, what I'm going to note is as we looked at these concepts, uh, we really tried to follow current standards from a parking stall dimensions. A lot of what we have around town is can be undersized at times. [1:36:50] **Mr. Copy:** Um, so these are 9 by 18. Uh, that's generally a standard parking stall dimension. Um, and then we also looked at ADA accessible uh, stall requirements. So um that changed things slightly as far as the the width of those the width of the access aisles uh for those uh the numbers that are required uh based on the total number of stalls for the parking lot. Concept one um gave us uh or allowed us to remain at 67 stalls. Uh that is the exactly what is there today but uh meet current standards. Uh, one thing I will note, um, and I'll point it out. If you look, uh, closest towards Banning Avenue, uh, you can kind of see the old [1:37:36] **Mr. Copy:** curb line, uh, we slightly, uh, carve into the, uh, there's a small green space area by about 20 ft, uh, to allow for circulation in that revised parking lot layout. Um, it is well outside of the drip line. And I'm going to flip back to the air photo. You can see at the bottom of the screen the uh kind of the square green area. You see that it falls uh quite outside of the uh drip line where we would be affecting it but yet allow for that revised layout to meet current standards. Um so that again is one option. Concept two again is a slight modification of it. uh we do get one less stall and we do chew into that green area a little bit more getting still outside of the uh the trees' drip [1:38:23] **Mr. Copy:** line but much closer to it. So um after staff's review we really look back and said concept one seems to meet the goals uh that council laid out for us. Um before I end with the uh concepts, if you look at the uh um top of the screen um closest to Fredelones Hardware, um that is the fourth um bur oak tree. Um it's got the red circle around it. Um in all the layouts that we looked at, uh both the concepts that were included in your packet as well as others, um that line of parking really lays out well. um if that tree were to be removed, you increase the stall count by two. So really uh we could have done a uh [1:39:09] **Mr. Copy:** another layout for you, but it's really the same. But that uh tree removed with that island removed. Um so that's really uh um how that question lays out as far as whether that um uh significantly changes the layout of the parking lot, which it doesn't. [1:39:31] **Mr. Copy:** So those are the two concepts that um really rose to the top uh based on the uh uh conditions um in the field. Um so really we um would welcome any discussion that council has uh and questions regarding the layouts um so that staff can move forward with a final plan that would be anticipated. I put the schedule back in the uh packet memo. Um, we would the next step in the process that we would ask for council to look at approving plans at the May 27th meeting. If you'd have answer any questions. **Mayor:** Thank you, Mr. Copy. I want to drill down on the health of the fourth tree. That's been the subject of discussion. My understanding is Rainbow Tree Care has deemed it as in declining health. I [1:40:16] **Mayor:** think the staff report characterizes it as in poor health as opposed to the other three which seem to be in good health. What do we really know about it? And if we need more information and need to drill down further in another meeting, that's fine with me. But it seems like we have pretty good information. And what I'm what I'm understanding is that the result of it being in declining health is that it potentially creates a safety hazard with branches falling uh on cars, people, what have you. And safety considerations aside, if it does eventually die, then if we were to remove it, that's harder to do once we already have the lot paved to then go in and take that out. So, I said a lot there. Status of the health of the fourth tree as you know it as [1:41:03] **Mayor:** reported to you by Rainbow Tree Care, the experts on this. **Mr. Copy:** Uh, mayor, members of the council, uh, that is correct. Uh so we rely on or our staff uses Rainbow Tree Care um as uh another memo in your uh packet in the consent agenda that they do our emerald ash borer treatments. [1:41:20] **Mr. Copy:** They do a lot of inspections for us around town. Um so we do rely on them as an expert. They they do do tree removals, but they do a lot of uh treatments um treatment plans for communities and and private homeowners. So uh we do rely on their expertise. Uh we don't have a certified um arborist on staff uh per se. Uh we do have tree inspectors but uh we do rely on their expertise as an arborist. Um so they did um come and look at it in the past. Uh they also relooked at it as a um upon a request from the Environmental Advisory Commission um to take a look at it again. Obviously, as we come into spring, there's another opportunity to see what um what uh branches are budding [1:42:06] **Mr. Copy:** or not budding again. Um we know that there are some dead branches, particularly on the north side of the tree. Um so those at minimum if the tree were to stay that we would need to uh do some tree trimming and and monitor any uh further dieback. Um I know there were some comments during the public hearing as far as um nobody can really predict, you know, a tree in decline. It could last one year, it could last 10 years, it could last 50 years. We don't know that. We can't predict that. So, um, even in talking with the folks from Rainbow Tree Care to, um, confirm that, they know it's in declining health due to the, uh, condition of the branches, how much they bud, but they can't predict how long that will last. **Mayor:** Okay. and and on at least the [1:42:54] **Mayor:** location of the fourth tree, the necessary green space, we'll call it, and it's pretty small based on the proximity of the tree to kind of where the parking lot line is, that's effectively going to be a bump out kind of how it is today. **Mr. Copy:** Correct. **Mayor:** from correct from the sort of the drive the driveway from a traffic flow standpoint, parking lot flow standpoint. I'm sure we can manage through it, but that seems to me that that's less than ideal. It's we're kind of dealing with it and it's creates a little bit of an awkward bump out. Is that a fair characterization? [1:43:33] **Mr. Copy:** Uh mayor, members of the council, um I'm going to scoot back to the uh to the layouts again. It's it's uh generally um so the two concepts have the same um island with the tree in it closest to Fredalones hardware there. Um let me go back one if I hit the right button go back to the same thing. It really doesn't impede the overall circulation through the parking lot. Um really it uh like I mentioned in my presentation um if it were to be removed it merely adds two parking stalls. than total counted a lot. [1:44:10] **Mayor:** Okay. I I appreciate your engineering perspective on that. I’ll opine kind of the lay person looking at an aerial map and that you think of two-lane traffic going through there. It is a bumpout. So, I'm not saying it's going to be a bottleneck, but a car does have to jet out, particularly if there's a car coming in the opposite direction. It's less than ideal. Okay? [1:44:33] **Mayor:** And we're not making any decisions tonight, correct? But you're looking for some feedback on what the ultimate proposal will be for approval the next council meeting or in a month or so. Okay. Council, any questions for Mr. Copy or comments on this? Council member Walsh. **Council Member Walsh:** Uh just a comment. I I would prefer the concept one uh as laid out gets us a little more uh little more parking and I'm I'm comfortable doing it today. Get rid of the fourth tree. It's I don't like the idea of waiting for it to fall then going back. You say, "Oh, it'll be easy, but it won't be easy. We have no idea what the budget's going to be, what the situation's going to be in four years, 5 years, whenever that tree falls, and to have to, you know, cut that out and repave that area doesn't seem smart, doesn't seem practical. Uh, so I would say concept one without the uh without that uh fourth tree to get those two extra spots. And then a lot of [1:45:35] **Council Member Walsh:** photos, a lot of comments about ACE, you know, and and you know, loading up pallets of stuff there. I mean, I think when everything's done, I think that's going to be a theme when the parking lots are done, when the streets are done, enforcement will go up a little bit. I think that's we've been talking about that privately, maybe not publicly, but I think that that's the plan that enforcement about of everything, 2-hour limits and parking, all that kind of stuff is going to go up once we're all done. So, that that would be my my suggestion. [1:46:03] **Mayor:** Any other feedback from the council? Council member West. **Council Member West:** Yeah, I've been hearing um kind of about the fourth tree as well, I guess. Um, I also like concept one and would like to hear a little bit more about um this spring kind of what the fourth tree looks like. Mr. Copy, um I don't um I don't know. Generally, I would like to keep the tree if we could and also I'm concerned about safety. Um so I I have a mixed mind on this one. [1:46:43] **Council Member Edberg:** Thank you, Mayor. Um, Mr. Copy, I'm too favor number one, but I'm I'm looking at and I've been out walking on that area two or three times now in the last month. Looking at the um where we have the current curbing on the what east side as on the bannings uh banning side. Looking at um creating another couple of parking stalls there um by breaching the the current curbing getting us closer to I agree that it's not in the drip line. I'm not sure that oaks necessarily confine themselves to drip lines. I [1:47:30] **Council Member Edberg:** don't I'm not sure that that's the case. So, I'm cons I'm quizzical, not concerned necessarily, but quizzical about um what are we potentially endangering by getting closer to those trees um and adding two more uh two more spots? And I don't know when we redo a, uh, a parking lot how deep we dig. Um, uh, clearly the trees right now are benefiting from having more space for roots. That's usually a good thing. Um, part of me I too am conflicted on the fourth tree. I kind of lean toward leaving it, but um another possibility might be we pick up those two spots [1:48:16] **Council Member Edberg:** and not uh maximize the spa uh spots close to Banning might be another consideration. We end up with the same number of spots total either way uh that way. But those are my reflections. [1:48:32] **Council Member Hughes:** Um, I I think one is fine. I I guess I would agree with um Council Member Edberg if we're gonna No, if we're going to keep the trees, let's not ruin them while we keep them. Um, and I would just keep the one next to the building and let it fall. My tree next my next door neighbor's tree falls all the time, but it only falls in high storm in high wind storms and generally I'm not standing out there. So, I don't I haven't been hit by it yet. Not that I'm advocating for safety problems, but I just don't know that it's going to be on a Tuesday afternoon while somebody's having lunch. [1:49:18] **Mayor:** I'm concept one also taking down the tree... safety reasons. Okay, we've we've heard from everybody. I only asked a couple questions. I usually speak first. I decided to speak last on this one. At the last at the public hearing, we'll go back. I was I was supportive of taking all the trees down, not because I hate trees, but because we we've got a parking issue and I wanted to work through that. I was convinced otherwise that these trees are worth saving at least some of them. And I think the three still are. I still support that. I don't really know why we're actually spending this much time on the fourth tree when experts have told us it's in declining health that the experts can't predict. And maybe it is 50 years, but maybe it's like in August and a big branch falls on some kid biking by or someone patronizing Ace or a car or any of the number of things [1:50:21] **Mayor:** that happen in a high-traffic area. It is there because years ago it was decided to be kept and that's why it's awkwardly bumped out and we've given it the old college try and it sounds like it's been in decline for many years and isn't the most sightly of the trees and probably isn't going to get healthy and better. Uh that's probably true when we do construction and it continues to have a small area to to receive the water that it needs. It’s a bill to me. If we have a declining tree and we're redoing the parking lot, let's get rid of it now. Let's add two more spots. Let's put our best foot forward with concept one and create as big of green space as we can and to try and preserve those other three trees. [1:51:04] **Mayor:** That is a really good compromise to me both from commerce and parking and ecology and preserving trees and having a nice parking lot that we can all be proud of. So I I would I would like to see it the decision uh made tonight that we just move forward with the concept one and remove the fourth tree and gain a couple of lots. Whether we need a formal action on that or not or we take it up at the next meeting when we have proposals, I don't know if it necessarily matters because we can kind of make that change on the fly, but that's ultimately where I would like to see this go. And I I want to underscore again, everyone has the same crystal ball, which is to say, who knows what the future's going to hold. But when we have very serious safety concerns, I'm not going to sit here and say, well, let's see what happens when someone [1:51:50] **Mayor:** could be under that tree um when something bad happens. So, I don't want to see that happen. Let's let's move on and cut down the tree and and preserve the other three. That's where I stand. Any other thoughts? **Council Member Edberg:** Okay. Do you have recall anybody ever being hit by a tree that the city owns in anywhere in downtown ever in 125 years? So, I get conflicted about and and you're not being unreasonable, mayor. I'm not picking a bone on that... this idea of how much safety do we have to have in order to be safe and how much risk can do we take risk to zero or blah blah blah... it's [1:52:36] **Council Member Edberg:** like I'm not seeing that as a major risk... is it a possibility yes... is it... but have we had any lived experience with it... not so much. So, I don't know that that would be another way of thinking about Is it pragmatic? Is it risk? Is it safety? We jack up all kinds of things in the name of safety. But we don't ask the question, how much of a safety issue do we have and how much how much data or demonstrated experience do we have? And that's where I go. I throw up my answer. [1:53:11] **Mayor:** Yeah. I think I think it's a I think it's a fair argument to question it. Everything all of life comes down to a cost-benefit analysis. It's it's a risk assessment assessment. I'm not an expert. I hear declining tree, a tree in declining health. That's different. I don't think I would have much of a different opinion if there were any other public tree in a public park in a high-traffic area. Let me let me back up. In a if it were in a high-traffic area, I think that's the difference maker to me. There are what thousands and thousands of trees. Okay, if you want to look at data, I don't need a statistical analysis to say more people frequent in and around that tree in that particular area than pick a tree in any public park because it's in a very high-traffic parking lot in a very very popular hardware store. So, I mean, I get what you're saying and I don't know. I mean, but I don't want to find out. So, to me, you know, call it a tie. I'm I'm not saying it's cut and dry, but it's enough of a risk to me on the safety front alone, I probably could be convinced if you if you told me 100% for certain that it [1:54:21] **Mayor:** wasn't a safety risk, I probably would still come down on let's move the tree because it is in declining health and there are some very pragmatic costs associated with two years from now, 5 years from now. You know, we say, well, you can just cut down the tree then. No, no, we're allocating a project cost to do this now. we can do it now. To go back and do it all over again um after the parking lot is built is more wear and tear on the parking lot. It is further disruption. Um it is cost at that time and it is a patch in the parking lot. So it's not going to be the consistent cohesive look. Um so I'll say it again because apparently I'm getting emails to the contrary or phone calls or people talking. I don't hate trees. I don't want the darn tree to go for [1:55:07] **Mayor:** the sake of cutting down a tree. It's in decline. We can gain two spots. It is a safety risk. Totality of the circumstances is let's cut it down and move on. There's three really nice mature trees still left. It's going to look great. But hey, I'm just one opinion. So, Mr. Copy, do you have what you need for the next meeting? Very good. Okay. Great. Item 10, communication from the city manager. **Miss Crawford:** Love following that. Um, the newest latest issue of the newsletter is out. Um, I we kind of started the conversation of giving kudos. doesn't want to just publicly give kudos again to all of our staffs that probably 10 staff I think contribute to this managed by um city clerk Long and Dyke and it's always so impressive and very well done. [1:56:11] **Miss Crawford:** Please read it. There's so much information in here that um is very useful and relevant to everybody in the community. um as well as upcoming events, an introduction to our new assistant fire chief. Um really good stuff um on all of our um you know MS4 permit and recycling and upcoming events. I've already said that like three times, but so many upcoming events. Um a couple of upcoming events um that are right around the corner. Um this Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, we have our 32nd annual skate show um at the sports center. you do have to buy tickets um prior to um prior to that. [1:56:48] **Miss Crawford:** I'll be at the Sunday show. Um it's always a really good really good time um to to see all of our talent um that come through our skate school and I really look forward to that. So that's this Friday through Sunday. Touch a Truck is coming up on May 8th in Podman Park um from 5 to 7 PM. really another really good event with many um local and regional partners that attend that and it's always well attended um by the public as well. Put a plug here for our second annual public works open house which is May 21st from 5 to 7 p.m. I'm reading literally reading the newsletter right now. Um so um that's another really impressive event. um please come check out what all that public works [1:57:34] **Miss Crawford:** does um to help you move through um uh into our community. Um and then lastly, just for our city council, I will be at the assistant city manager Juba and I will be at the um city managers association conference next Wednesday through Friday. Um that's what I have. **Mayor:** Very good questions. Council questions for Miss Crawford? All right. [1:57:52] **Mayor:** Well, high school students, welcome. Uh the the council meeting is not over for us, but it's about to be over for you because we're going to do something that's pretty unique, which is to go into close session. That happens a couple times a year. It's one of the rare opportunities, I shouldn't say opportunities, that sounds bad. It's one of the rare circumstances under which the council can meet in complete secrecy from the public and it's usually pursuant to litigation that's ongoing where we need to make strategic decisions or some kind of a a personnel evaluation typically uh of key staff. Um so with that uh you can come up in a minute and we'll sign your sheets and [1:58:37] **Mayor:** then I have to read some stuff that you guys don't need to listen to to bring us into close session. But I do want to thank all of you for being here. You get you get my quick spiel. 23 years ago when I was in Cameron Malum's American government class, uh, 04 grad of White Bear Lake High School, I sat where you are for the same assignment. Uh, I listened to the city council, worked through various city business. If I'm honest, at the time, I thought that's kind of boring, but I I did the assignment. Um, now I know how interesting it is. So, I hope hopefully you got a little bit out of this. Um, and you realize how important local government is. Local government is the thing that touches your everyday lives, I think, more than any other form of government. the clean water that comes out of your faucet, what happens when you call 911, hopefully what happens when you flush the toilet and go somewhere through the sewer system, our parks, our roads, all that good stuff. So, I encourage you now [1:9:23] **Mayor:** or in the future to participate in local government through a volunteer committee, maybe run for office someday. Um, I I obviously am biased, but uh I think it's a it's a great form of government. So, again, I encourage you to participate and I thank you for being here. Anyone on this dais can come up and sign those pieces of paper before you get out of here. Thank you. [1:59:54] [Indistinct Chatter] [2:00:44] **Mayor:** All right. I've got a spiel to read so you guys can tune out for about 45 seconds, maybe a minute. Uh we now need to go into close session pursuant to Minnesota statute section 13D.05 subdivision 3B, which authorizes the city to hold an attorney client privilege close session under certain circumstances. Our attorneys from Kennedy and Graven are present to discuss recent developments in the city of White Bear Lake versus the estate of Thomas C. Shuniman and JCON LLC, Ramsey County District Court file number 62-CV-23-5526, which is active litigation. The need for confidentiality in discussing this matter with our attorneys outweighs the purposes of the open meeting law because legal counsel intends to candidly discuss recent [2:01:29] **Mayor:** developments including a proposed settlement agreement and provide legal advice for how to proceed. Allowing these discussions to happen in an open session would jeopardize the city's legal position. Therefore, I make a motion to go into close session pursuant to Minnesota statute 13D.05 subdivision 3B to discuss the above described matters. **Council Member:** I'll move. **Council Member:** Second. **Mayor:** Motion second. All those in favor say I. **Council:** I. **Mayor:** And we're in close session. Thank you.