Are you ready to do roll call? >> Yes. Uh, council member >> in order. >> Council member Nordby >> here. >> Council member Woods >> here. >> Council member McKenzie >> here. >> Council member Schwar >> here. Mayor Mongi >> here. >> Thank you very much. One second. Sudden my whole computer went. Right. Tonight's I got a motion to adopt the agenda, please. >> So move. >> So move. Council member McKenzie. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Schwer. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Thank you. >> Topics. >> Thank you, Mayor. We got one topic on the agenda this evening and that is the 2026 budget for continued discussions on our CIP and I will turn that over to Dan, our finance director. >> Well, thank you very much uh mayor, council members. Um tonight is part two of the capital improvement plan. Um if you remember the last workshop that we had, we covered the first part which was approximately 50% of the cost over the next 10 years from uh 2026 to 2035 in the capital improvement plan and that uh pretty much covered uh the streets um component to it. So tonight we're going to be covering the other parts and this is pretty much an open ask questions. Um get in for any information that you need. Again going to kind of show some of the information that we've already kind of seen tonight. We'll kind of cover the remainder of the CIP. We'll kind of look at the proposed levy where we're at and then some other information and then have a discussion. So the next uh meeting, next workshop that we have uh the first meeting in September, we'll have to make decisions on where we want to be with that maximum um levy. Um and then the following uh meeting um it'll actually be at city council. I'll have all the resolutions to certify the maximum levy um that we need to get in by the end of September um to the county. And a reminder that it's a maximum levy. We can always bring it down. um it doesn't become final approved until December. Um but we can't go up beyond that. Um so as we looked at the 2026 2035 the numbers have changed a little bit. If you remember I had kind of talked about that there was some discussion that was um happening on both the water tower that um is scheduled um now it's scheduled in 2029. And so we wanted to confirm what our estimated cost was that. Um and then also the ladder truck for the fire department. So tonight we're we're really going to be kind of looking at that the asset preservation. Um and the park dedication. Um we're going to be looking at um the electric fund. Uh we're going to be looking at the equipment fund, park fund. So it's kind of the remainder of of those components. Um, so we have uh our fire chief Jason Melinger here to kind of talk a little bit about the ladder truck because that's going to be a a high cost um item and then also um Ron since he covers so many of the budgets um but he can also address kind of the the water tower and what we're looking at um with that and then um any other questions that you have we certainly will try to answer those questions for you. need to really emphasize again and been trying to do this the last couple of meetings what this means this 26 2035 capital improvement plan and what it means is that to be able to afford that we need to do what this is showing for the streets and the street debt that we need to have a $248,000 levy. It's not just this year. It's going to be for at least the next seven years on the street part to it. Um, right now that's about a 3.2% levy increase. Then there's the parks and what's in this plan right now would require an additional $30,000 which is not in our current budget um when we were at the 6% for the city and 5.84% overall. So it would need to be added to be able to afford what's in the parks plan. And then the asset preservation um needs a $142,000 increase. Now, both the parks and the asset preservation are going to be needed for the next 10 years, those increases. So, what it means is that right now we're going to be starting every year with an approximate 6% levy increase. It goes down a little bit. As our levy keeps going up, the percentage obviously will go down a little bit, but it's still going to be up above that 5% range to afford what's in here. In addition to that, it's going to have impact on our internal service funds because in our internal service funds, we charge back equipment and and um building maintenance. Um right now, what's in the plan would end up we would end up needing an approximate 5% per year increase into those. And for the levy, that's going to be about a $28,000 or.36% levy increase. And for the non-levy component, which is really our our uh enterprise funds, our utilities, um it's going to need an increase of just under $14,000 in addition to that to be able to afford this plan. And the bigger the biggest driver is for the water. It's going to be that water utility for the water wastewater and the surface water. They're all going to be really they're being driven by the road the major re road reconstruction projects um and the costs associated with those. Right now on a 10-year uh financial plan, we're looking at of the wa the water, wastewater, and surface water that we're going to need a 6% increase in those rates starting in 2027 all the way out to 2035 to be able to afford this plan. solid waste. Um we're working on an RFP. Um we, you know, collectively city council gave us the direction not to change those rates until we go out for that RFP, which we will do next year. Um I think September 1st, um a new contract will go in place and at that point in time, we'll have to adjust the rates. Uh right now the rates we're taking a loss, but we we've had a fund balance in there and that was the decision city council had made um a few years back to to not raise those rates at that point in time. So there will be a rate change um for that one. All in all, what I'm trying to emphasize is that there's a lot of cost here. Um and this is our big driver of what's going to contribute to the increases in our levy requests. it's going to increase um taxes for our residents and that's where we need to make sure that what's on here um meets the goals of what the city council wants. Um that we adhere to this as best that we possibly can. things always change, but it's difficult to then add on huge expenditures on top of that because it's already having this much of an impact. So, anything that we add in addition is going to end up being higher and higher and higher. Um, I do have some some graphs towards the end of this presentation um to kind of show you um where we're where we're at and for I think I got a 10-year look at what the levy has been, what the fiscal disparities has been over the past 10 years. Um, and then kind of a comparison in the past five years of what the levies and the levy changes for cities in Ramsey County have have been. And and you'll be surprised at that. Even though we have the second highest tax rate, um we've been pretty much in line um in the middle of those levy increases the past five years. But our rate will be higher because we don't have that market taxable market value that some of the other cities have gotten in the growth that they've received. And a lot lot of that is, as you're well aware, we're predominantly a residential um city. We don't have that commercial base. >> Um and flip side to it, without that commercial base, that's why we're a winner on the fiscal disparity side to it. So, when we look at the the categories and um that are here, uh tonight we're going to be talking about the categories of building and facility improvements, capital technology, which there isn't a great deal into parks and playgrounds, parks and open services. Um and then we're going to be looking at the ponds and natural resource resources, um vehicles and equipment. Um so here's the facility um one into here and the facility numbers are are what are coming um from the uh w facility assessment that was done and completed uh I think last year. Um so the numbers are just being carried over. Um if you remember we actually will have to go into the um w report to see the detail because it just shows the summary by facility on our capital improvement plan itself. But you can see in 2026 um you know the big expenditure that u is part about on the plan is the community center building. Um and if we look over the whole 10 years um the total need on our building facilities is $17 million. Um, and again, to be able to afford all of that with the money that we have today, we're also going to need to be increasing our levy approximately $142,000 year after year after year all the way through um to be able to afford what's on here. Questions? >> I have a question. Sure. Um, so for facilities, this is either just needed maintenance or deferred maintenance that's needed to the buildings or other facilities that the city owns. Correct. Correct. >> Correct. Okay. >> Yeah, it covers all of the facilities. It covers your three major facilities of being public works, city hall, and community center. Your three major facilities that you have today. Um, and you guys can jump in anytime. I don't believe there's too much cosmetic or aesthetic um improvements that are in any of these plans. It was pretty much um you know, roofs um you know, anything that had to do with exterior as far as waterproofing and so forth. Um this is where um earlier this year um because it was in the 2025 uh the card access system um it was it was more of all of those types of components that are in there. It's not um you know wall coverings, painting and that kind of stuff. It's more roofs um HVAC equipment. We have to realize that those three major facilities all have something pretty close in common and they're all 20 years of age. Normally your your roofs uh depending on what type of roof it is um is going to last you know 25 30 at tops um HVAC systems 20 25 years. So, we're all we're at that point with our unfortunately with our facilities um that there's going to be a lot of uh needs and and costs associated with that just to maintain them in basically in their I'll say current states um to make sure that everything is still operational. Why we're at this point is kind of where we kind of started back, you know, as a city, you know, four years ago. And that is they're truly to me, you know, there there was an equipment replacement schedule. There was a look at streets um from a five-year um street program really looking at um the major reconstruction every other year, but there really wasn't that comprehensive look. Obviously, there was nothing that was on our facilities. So there truly wasn't money dedicated for a plan to take care of our facilities in the manner in which they they need to be. So now we're playing catch-up. Um and we're we're having to, you know, be able to fund those because they're coming due within, you know, the majority of it's coming due within the next five to six years. And so that's where um you know for the you know this current city council was the one who approved that facility assessment from W which then allowed us to start gathering the data and then make sure that we were being as comprehensive as possible. And if you remember last year that got added into the capital improvement plan which is significantly needed. Um, but there's a cost associated with that and um, and that's where uh, you know, my part of my responsibility is to to to let you know what would you have to do to be able to afford this? Your perspective is to look at these things and say, hey, do we really need it? Um, and our department head should be able to give you justification and answers to why those items are needed. Um, and I think that you'll you'll find one of the biggest things. So, we haven't had a lot of the facility repairs being done since I've I've been here, but one of the things and and I, you know, I'll have Ron and and Jason speak to this that I personally and I I have been in government and and watched facilities and and uh replacement schedules for many many years. Um, I have never been as proud as I am of our department heads that we have on how fiscally responsible they truly are. Um, when we sit down and we look at this plan and they edit it from year to year, they'll sit and look and even though on a a replacement schedule it says, "Hey, this this vehicle should be replaced in 10 years." So, two years from now, we got to replace that. I'll sit with them and they'll be the first ones to say, "You know what? it it's it's perfectly fine. We don't have a lot of maintenance. Um we can push this out, you know, two three years. Um and and they'll do that piece to it. That's pretty impressive. Um so they are they do a very very good job. So this is what the facilities based upon um you know the w um assessment what it's going to cost us. Um, I think we've uh recently did an RFP for some HVAC work here um in the city hall. Um, and I do believe um, and Randy, you may want to speak to this a little bit more. Um, but what the W's number had in it versus what um, the the results came back of the of the proposals is higher. Yes. >> Yeah. >> So, and just through that or for that W report there there was ratings one through I think four or five for the the needs and we went through those multiple times kind of with a fine tooth comb and just sectioned out all the ones the most important ones that were on there. And there's a lot of stuff on there. we, you know, there's $100 for cocking and $50 for this or $200 for that. And that that little stuff that we can do that we're like Dan had spoke about or um like the the HVAC, the leaking roofs, the um kind of the major stuff that needs to be addressed. I know Randy has met with uh contractors, roofers up on the city hall roof here. We've been spraying water on the roof trying to find where these leaks are coming from, finding if it's roofing, if it's siding. We've had contractors out here, the roofers out here. Um the HVAC um the RFP just got closed for the HVAC stuff. Um and talking with the HVAC guys and the roofing roofing guys and Randy can probably speak to it a little better because he was out here with Burwald, but I think the Burwald roofers were saying that we can probably hold off on the roof. Normally you do the HVAC when you do or you do the roof when you do the HVAC because you're pulling everything off with cranes and they have cranes here to do the roof and you there's some cost savings. But I think they said that with with the shape the roof in here in city hall we could probably get the HVAC stuff done and maybe come back five six seven years later and do the roof. But just so you guys know that it we're shopping around and doing what we can within this report and trying to find what the best way the most affordable way to do these big projects that need to be done, you know, probably, you know, sooner than later, but they don't probably don't all have to be be done at the same time. So we can have some time to, you know, have have the money set aside to do these or to do these properly and to do them in a responsible way where we're not just fixing the HVAC and then coming back in three years and doing the roof and having those things pulled off or working around those where it'll cost more money. So >> I don't know if there's anything you want to add. >> Well, just with Burwald uh coming out too, like I said, they were really impressed with the roof on how well it is. And like they said, they wouldn't touch it. And the one thing that they pushed, what I talked to Dan about is they said just having our roof being so sectioned off, we could plan, you know, like a three-year deal and do like one area, do the next area and the other area because they're not all adjoining. Okay. >> So it at least cuts down yeartoear and what we're spending. >> Was that built built that way back in 04 then? That way >> just how >> with just in sections? >> They're not adjoining at all. >> Okay. And I and I know when we've talked about the facilities um before, I know that, you know, people have kind of picked apart or you guys have picked apart, you know, hey, can't we do this or can't we do that? The little cocking stuff and and we we definitely most definitely can. Um there's smaller contractors out there that have looked at some of this stuff. So, I mean, I don't want you guys to get lost in in all them little little, you know, $100, $500 things. You know, that stuff will be handled. It's we're looking at like the bigger things and working with Dan and Brian on, you know, hey, this is kind of where we're at. This is what the bids came in at for new HVAC for this building and we can this absolutely needs to be replaced. This, you know, so we're we're checking out all the different avenues that we can to try to make this as affordable as, you know, we can for for the city. So, um yeah, I guess I don't have to say about that. other questions that you have regarding the building and facility improvement section or >> I mean I guess one question I have >> so just looking at the big numbers um the public works building in uh the $3.9 million um in sorry 2031 >> which I know is like six years out but what I mean what's the What what's needed there? Is that HVAC stuff or >> I think the biggest cost in that one's the roof. >> Is that the roof? >> Roof and Harley at track at the same time. >> Okay. >> Same thing. That's something that might get pushed out if it's in the same shape that this one is. >> Okay. >> I'm guessing. And again, that that's kind of the whole the whole deal. >> Yeah. >> There. So, >> yep. >> Being it's that far out, you know, the closer it gets, the more we'll kind of pick it apart. Okay. We have roofers. We we usually call up a few different contractors, have them come out, look at it, get different opinions. Hey, what do you what are your thoughts? What do you think? You know, what can we do? You know so >> working I mean, we're fixing some of the leaks without having to do a major, right? >> Yeah. >> And I guess I'm not trying to, you know, nickel and dime it or anything like that. I'm just trying to figure out like and roofs go out. I mean, that's just the nature of the just nature of buildings. >> And I think it's the HVAC at public works, too. I mean, we do have one unit that's out right now that we have on order, you know, so I mean, that stuff might not be quite the 20, but it's there and we're starting to show the wear. >> Yep. Okay. >> What year was that building on First Street built? >> Your your public works building. >> Public works is 2009. >> That's it. Okay. >> Yeah, we still call it a new public works building. >> Yeah. Well, it Yeah. >> I remember what you used to work out of. Just like anything else, some things go faster, some things take, you know, like the year, we we got a little break, so we just don't know. >> Yep. >> Best guess. >> Dan, um something you said earlier, um the 6% increases to the um basically all three water funds, does that fully fund the water tower? >> Um yes, it does. >> Okay. And and then um do you have a g best guess and I believe it would be a guess when the next one after that would be due. >> The next what >> water tower is that a 20 year? Is that a >> I can't give you an answer to that. Okay. This one we're doing more because of a cap capacity shortage. So I would say that the other one would be more just routine maintenance. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It it this exactly what Randy said. This is a capacity thing that has been on the the list for a long time. 15 15 years um 20 years maybe. I don't know. But um where this would where this water tower would need a rehab. I the one that we'd be replacing. The the biggest factor is the capacity. Um and then the the other driving fact would be if we had to rehab this water tower. I I don't know what the exact numbers would be to rehab it, but I I'm just throwing a number out there. It probably be a million and a half dollars, $1.3 million to >> The person behind you is agreeing with you. >> Okay. Yeah. Um >> Morgan's not going to talk today, but he'll give us the sign. There we go. >> Um yeah, so Morgan, you jump all over me. Morgan's way more in tune with this than I am, but them are, you know, some of the the factors and the water tower since I've been in any type of position to look at this kind of stuff. Um, you know, it's I saw in one of her report they said, "Hey, you have a shortage of storage here." And I when I knew nothing about anything, I got in a panic and I think I talked to Morgan and he's like, "Ah, that's been like that for a while." You know, so yeah. >> All right. And there was no other talk of a water tower going in any other spot or anything like that over the years. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the council, so that was studied um in a study I think that was completed in like 2020, 2019, 2020. >> Um and that that it was a tower sighting study that looked at, you know, um different options. One of them being could another tower be built in a like a third location have a third tower basically to kind of uh satisfy the capacity or storage capacity shortfall that the city has been facing for some time. Um ultimately I think from uh economies of scale and just available real estate uh the preferable alternative for the north tower was to reconstruct next to the existing tower, keep the old tower online as long as possible. Obviously that impacts some uh playground equipment and things like that, but then uh when the new tower is done, take the old tower down next to it, maybe repurpose some playground equipment and kind of repurpose the park at the bottom there. Um and from a life cycle standpoint, that was one of the metrics from a finances standpoint. Um you know, there was a recommended alternative. So that basically was studied a few years ago. That's the estimate with inflationary adjustments that has been in the CIP this uh this this entire time. >> Question. Uh what water tower are you talking about? >> The north tower. Uh >> I don't I don't know where the tower park >> between 13th and 14th Avenue. >> Yep. Okay. >> Just north of high school. >> Okay. Yep. >> North of high school. And we have two wells. There's wells one and two that are right next to that tower. >> And then the other one, the other water tower is one at Northwood, right? Correct. >> Yeah. Northwood. >> Yep. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Appreciate it, Morgan. >> Thank you. >> Yep. I know. >> Other questions on the buildings and facility improvements? >> No. >> Uh capital technology really what's in here is just the SCADA. Um, we incorporate in the technology fund, which is an internal service fund, computer replacement, and that stuff is included in the operating budget. >> Um, because we're on a pretty much a >> I think there uh Metro Inet moved to kind of like a five-year replacement schedule. Um, so we have something in there every single year to replace some computers that are that are being outdated. Um, and then there's the parks. I think we've kind of I don't know if we've we've really looked at all of the park pieces, but this is what um with the assistance of uh the park and rec commission um and uh council member Schwar sits on that. This is um what they've come up with um for their 10-year plan um at this point in time. And you can see over the 10-year period that comes to just under $7.2 2 million. And again, to be able to afford this um would require um um an increase um in the levy of $30,000, which to date we do not have um in um the budget, which would be something that we it's one of the items that you know kind of outstanding for discussion, which will be at the end of our presentation here tonight, which then will continue um the first meeting in September. questions on parks. >> Yeah, the sidewalk uh along Mcnite Boulevard. Is that the east side of the street? >> North along which one? 11th, right? >> No, >> it would have been the east side. >> East side. Yeah. >> Yep. >> It was from South Avenue. >> Yeah, that's what I meant. >> Uh >> Anchor >> Anchor Drive. the new anchor drive. >> Has it been determined? Um I mean I feel like the apartment complex that was just built there has majority of that side of the street as it determined what part of that is the city's >> I I did not this isn't something that I put in in there. This is something previous. Um I think we just left it in there. >> Yeah, it was in there. >> Morgan. Morgan. >> Thanks, Morgan. >> Um, as I recall, and I'm going off of memory here, but when the original modern CIP that you guys have have been looking at for the last several years was compiled using a lot of different planning uh documents. I believe the sidewalk connection on the east side of Mcnite was something that was either identified in the comprehensive plan or another planning document that it was thought at the time. We need to we can't just delete things because you know uh they need to be carried forward. And so um that that is where that item came from. Um, when the anchor development went in, staff with the developer did look at the feasibility of building a portion of sidewalk on the east side. Had some conversations with Ramsey County because the city was engaged with Ramsey County at the time for the new traffic signal at Mcnite and Anchor Drive. Um the the right-of-way needs and the grades um are very difficult to contend with in terms of adding a pedestrian facility or you know a trailer, a sidewalk or something outside of the curb line on that side of the road. And the county did kind of say, "Yeah, that's a I mean $200,000 in the budget might not be enough depending on, you know, some further analysis on what the rightway needs would be. uh knowing that especially uh there's a home on the corner of I think South A and um yeah South South A and Mcnite that is kind of up in the hill and there's not a lot of boulevard space there for a walk or a trail right and so you know retaining walls additional right away and it's a county road it's not a it's not a city street and there's an existing facility on the west side of the road right so um you know priority and where that needs to fall in relation to you know expenditure city expenditure features uh for other pedestrian uh facilities throughout the city. That's certainly up to the city council, but those are some of the challenges that um that particular improvement faces. So, it doesn't make it a bad idea. It's certainly been in the adopted plans for some time, right? But there are some challenges there that are certainly um acknowledged by the county and and would be challenges that if the city led a project there, that would likely need to be funded by the city. Thank you. >> Appreciate it, Morgan. >> I guess with that 200,000, I would like to talk about that further. I mean, obviously it's there are challenges. I mean, as the naked eye sees it, I mean, that there is some challenges with that. So to have it budgeted for 2026, um if that's somewhere if those dollars can be reallocated somewhere else for a sidewalk or um because this this looks like a larger study that we'd have to do uh to navigate whether a sidewalk can go there or not. >> Was parks asking for that? >> No, I'm just putting I'm just putting it out there. or is it something you guys want to remove from there since there is a sidewalk on the other side of the road and there's traffic signals on either side for crossing for pedestrians. Um, does this make sense? >> That's why I'm bring it up for discussion. >> Yeah. Other thoughts from the council members on this? [Music] N >> I mean my my thought if Cassidy is willing is to bring it before her group and see what her group comes back with the recommendation. Um that'd be my thought. I mean what she says kind of makes sense to me. >> Mhm. to to further it back refer the money back into our >> Yeah. >> see if it's feasible to even do >> right. >> We'll have this brought back to >> I will bring it back to parks and wreck. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Other questions on items that are in um this parks and playgrounds path and open space section. If there's no other questions, we'll kind of look at uh natural resources. Um there's I think what five items on there. Uh the remainder of the emerald ashbor program. Uh pond vegetation management. Um there's the uh I think silver silver lake aiator um pump uh Casey Lake aiator pump replacement and then um pond dredging maintenance any questions is a dredging and maintenance of the park something. Are the ponds something that we normally do? >> Yes. Okay. Um it's they're evalued. Morgan, when did we last have them all evaluated? >> We just did an update last year. >> Last year. Okay. >> They checked the sediment, you know, in the inlets and outlets out there. >> See where they what needs to be, you know dredged. >> Okay. >> Or heights of water and depth. Then >> does that include the natural like down by Silver Lake where they have that holding pond that goes into the lake. Is that part of that too then? >> Yep. >> Yeah. The um so the last couple few of these that we've done we've let the Ramsey Washington Metro wershed district lead them because they actually take care of the mobilization costs and the bidding and >> um some share of the engineering as well too. So in terms of I guess dollar for dollar dollar value piggybacking on their annual program because it's a large project that they actually put out for bid and so the prices unit prices tend to be a little bit lower for our little pond. So last year we did it's usually winter work. Last year uh you know again with them we did the pond just south of South Avenue by Cowan Elementary. Um, and this year on the list, they're still looking at it, but I think they might do the other pond further south uh of that one um in the southwest corner of the Cowin Elementary pond as well, too. So, that's historically what that budget line item has been used to fund. And usually the prices come in really good. So, um, but that's what we have out there right now. >> Okay. >> Where are these ariators in Silver Lake? So the ariator in Silver Lake is over on the norththeast side in in Maplewood [Laughter] >> in Randy County. >> You know, >> that up by the uh boat launch up there in Dry Park on that closer to >> be to the east of there, close in between Century and the boat launch >> in there. Um, we inherited that um, two years ago, I believe. Um, I think I believe the county took care of it and then the county decided that they didn't want to do it anymore. So, >> Maplewood said no to it and um, yeah, and I think a decision was made to keep to take it over. that wasn't well I guess it it when it happened I was around so yeah it's something that we just kind of inherited um and the maintenance c or the maintenance numbers that we have on there are from the previous uh pumps and there's a bath there's a pump and there's a baffle apparently that that's in there's like a wet well for it where it where water comes in and goes out um but >> Ramsey County did pay us some money Yep. But I think we offered to pay them a chunk of money for them to do it and they said >> now with Maplewood being part of that property now our our property line through that lake falls where then >> because they consider it north as Silver Lake. Yeah. I know. I realize it's not property but >> Maplewood owns Joy Park. Correct. Or Ramsey County does as part of the Maplewood program. >> Mapwood. Yes. >> And I think North St. Paul has like twothirds of the lake and Maplewood has a third. Is that about right? Splits are kind of >> Yeah. I I I honestly I don't know exactly where that >> little more than 2/3. Okay. >> I just know that the pump is in Maplewood, Ramsey County, and we're we're taking care of it. >> Last year we didn't have to put it in if I remember right. Right. >> Last year we did Yeah. Last year we did turn it on. >> Oh, we did. Okay. >> Yep. Yep. Last year we did turn it on. the year before we did not. So, the county, Ramsey County, still monitors the oxygen level in the lake and lets us know when it needs to be turned on. Now, does that keep it uh somewhat moving the water so the fish won't >> Yep. It's to keep It's to keep open water for oxygen levels for the fish. >> Yes. So basically it sucks sucks water in on one side and and shoots it out the other side and sprays it back in the lake. >> And so I can do cold water ice rescue training in January, February. >> Oh, what else is >> Well, since it's since he uses it the most, can it just be part of his budget? >> Can't come out the fire budget because it practice that. Okay. All in favor of moving that >> I >> You guys need to get that uh county uh airboat. >> Yeah. >> I was curious where was that money put, Dan? Do you remember for I believe it was the initial offer was what 10 or 15 and we asked for like >> 20. Yeah. >> Did we dump that into the CIP or do we is that a separate sit? >> Well, there isn't actually a CIP. It's in one of the funds. I think it would have been in the fund that pays for this air raator, which would be the >> Yeah, probably more than likely. Yeah, whatever the appropriate >> longevity on >> I think they I think they said that the the life expectancy of them were like was like 15 years is >> what they said. replaced recently. >> Yeah, everything was replaced within a couple years is at least that's what they told us. >> So, we should probably put that in the CIP. >> What's that? >> I said so we should probably put that in our CIP. >> Yeah. >> Replacement of that. >> That's why we have it in there. >> That's why it is in there. Yeah. >> Yeah. Something. >> So, nobody knows how old it is, though. >> They said I I believe they said it was it was a few years old when we took it over. >> We picked these years based off the people they gave us. the best of our knowledge. >> To the best of my knowledge, >> maybe it can be >> looking at the not a ton of money, but >> yes, >> it was a thing. We didn't pick it up. >> And then the lake and freeze over said we're not going to maintain it anymore. You can take it if you want. >> Other questions on this section? >> Thanks. >> And we'll move on to utility infrastructure. And this is where you're going to see that uh the new tower park water tower um in 2029. Um and then you know it has well rehabs. So when you look at this utility infrastructure they're being fun you know it's being funded by our utilities either water wastewater surface water. Um so um that's where you're seeing um the cost for these. >> Dan I'm confused. You said it is the Northwood Tower that's going to be replaced. >> No. >> Oh, >> Tower Park. >> The I'm sorry. The new I said I'm the new Tower Park. Okay. >> It's the North Water Tower. So >> is what? >> Which is in Tower Park. The Northwood water tower. >> Oh. In tow a >> lot of Nores around here. >> Then you can you can see the Northwood water tower paint and rehab in 2032. boy. >> It's called North and South Tower. >> And then and then you have a a a big one because I think they're what hitting their 15 what is it? 20 years for the meter replacement 20-year program. >> Yes. So the water meter replacement program, the meters were replaced roughly 15 years ago is when we started. They were they started to get installed. Um, one year there's going to be just a like a hundred of them put in or a ten of them I think put in and turned into just we just kept going replacing the water meters. So they were replaced over the course of about three yearsish. Um, we were installing them as public works and then it just got to be too much. So a company was hired to go out and help install the meters. Well, the water meters are a sealed meter and there's a battery in them. and they have a battery life of about 20 years. There's a there's a meter and a radio and they have about a 20-y year life cycle. Now, just speaking with them, we have a little bit of flex on those um as far as timing, but we're going to have to start replacing them because, um our commercial meters that we put in, our bigger ones, inch and a half and bigger meters, uh they have a you can replace the the head on them that has the actual meter on them with the battery in it. And there's a 10-year life cycle on those. And pretty much all of those have gone out at 10 years in a day. I mean, they're like right around there like clockwork. So, um, we have to get this on the schedule to having to go out and start replaces. Um, obviously we're not going to be able to do it all physically and financially in a year. Um, so it's going to take some time and you know we're going to look at you know trying to hire someone to to do that just because it's a it's a big job getting it was it was tough getting in everyone's home to homes to begin with. Now after co it's going to be probably even more of a challenge. Um, we we try to install the radios outside on a lot of these so we can do a lot of troubleshooting from outside the people's home without having to go in them. But we do have a a fair amount of uh radios inside people's homes, too. But like I said, that meter replacement program, you know, we're going to have to start that just to try to get ahead of it. And the the meters back then were kind of installed randomly throughout town. So, you know, I'd say each week, you know, we deal with kind of meter problems on a day a daily basis. Um, I think they say the faulty rate on them is acceptable is like 1%. You know, you're kind of always kind of dealing with something. Um, but we're just going to probably take a chunk of town and, you know, break it into thirds or quarters, however we, uh, you know, can financially do it, and just start and replace all the replace all the meters. So that's what will be coming in what do we have 27 I think starting that >> starting. >> So and it sounds like the meters they're pretty much the same type of deal is you know they don't have a meter that has a 40year life on it anymore you know 40 year or longer life but kind of is what it is and that's our our system census that reads the meters and I think uh half the electric meters also. So, >> trying to bring the old guys out of retirement. Used to walk house to house, look at the outside. >> What was >> Yeah, I was I was working here when we still had the meter readers. >> What What was his name? Uh >> I think there's a there's a handful of them. Martin, >> he just needed a pacemaker. He didn't need a battery. Maybe he did then for the pacemaker. >> I remember talking to him all the time. >> Yeah, nice guy. Ron, just out of curiosity, um, the water meters aren't rocket science to install. >> Do do you know have any cities ever let homeowners install their own? >> No, >> it is not rocket science, but >> well, but you know, and I don't mean this in any negative way. I mean, most people don't even know where their water meter is in their home. you know, when we did this, uh, just having people look at what type of service line comes in their house just to tell us that, you know, it it's, you know, and at the end of the day, it's really not a big deal, but a lot of when we went in because I was a person, we Randy and I both were people out there on the front line starting to put these in. You're going down to a valve that hadn't been touched in 80 years and you touch that valve and you replace that meter and then all of a sudden there's water leaking out of that valve and a day later there might be water leaking out of it or I mean it's just uh and them valves probably haven't been touched since the last time we were in there. It you know 15 20 years ago. I I just don't know how much of a benefit that would be to us at the end of the day you know. Plus, we got to program and link the two together, you know, as we install. >> Okay. >> Yes. So, like I said, we have a radio outside. There's a wire that runs from the radio inside. Um, and then it connects to the meter and then basically you marry the two together when when you leave. So, the radio picks up the signal, you know, from the meter. So, there's a there's a computer program that we use for that. So, and the meters can be put in backwards, so they run backwards or and don't ask me how I know that, >> but writing checks to them. >> There's a little I mean, it is not rocket science, but there's a little to it. And even the people that do them all the time, they install backwards and >> Okay. >> And for olding older homes, it's the ground source. So, if you come across that, it can kill you if if there's a load on it. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's another thing, you know, a lot of the meters they, you know, a jumper cable has to be installed. Before there wasn't a jumper cable because it was a metal meter. You know, all your grounding for your house goes through your water service. So when we put these plastic meters in, there's a jumper cable that was installed to keep that ground in place, too. So, >> fun fact, I pulled mine off the wall when I was when I moved in. You guys came in and you were like, "Oh, there's something wrong with your water. Got tired of that bill, huh? >> You hear that one? >> Yeah, we we had your mug shot up at the shop for a while. >> We don't need that. >> That said, you really don't want anyone. >> Any other questions? Yep. Yes. >> So, the electric vehicle charging stations in 2027, is there a big call for those? I guess I mean, have we had a lot of people reach out to us and be like, "Hey, why doesn't the city have these? No, we haven't. >> Okay. >> We had the one in front of city hall here um which wasn't used a real lot and uh we had one that was going to go behind uh K&J. >> Oh, okay. >> Um and it was going to be supplied by our power supplier, but unfortunately the vendor they chose, they had nothing but problems and uh so they kind of backed away from that. So, >> okay. I just I not >> Thank you. Great question. just asking because I know a lot of, you know, businesses and, you know, have those. So, >> yeah, John would probably I mean, I think Brian's pretty in tune with the electric department still. Um, but John would probably know more about that. >> Okay. >> Troy, do you see a need for it? Are you questioning why we have it? >> I'm questioning why we have it, I guess. Um, I mean, is it something that the city really needs to be able to supply >> where it does get to commute >> or we can take it off the >> or we Yeah, we could we is it something we could take off of our budget and you know, >> I don't have the one in front of city hall that we can >> and it depends on where the market goes. I mean, >> yeah, >> true. >> Right now, it's >> not favorable. >> Fizzling a bit, but yeah. Uh, it could very well come back. >> True. >> Yeah. This this item has been pushed out like year after year after year. >> Um you know so it's 27 time we get to 27 probably >> that can down the road until you know >> until the the can you know isn't needed or you know all of a sudden it gets electrified and then then we'll do it. So >> any other questions on the utility infrastructure part? I guess one silly question and maybe not a silly question, but um as I'm the representative for the arts and culture commission, uh I know the work being done for the water towers. Is that something, you know, we could bring up to the art uh committee, you know, as an opportunity to, you know, could we do a big snowman on one of the water towers or something like that? Snowman face or something like that? I don't know. >> Well, it's already on tower park anyways. The snowman is on there anyways. Yeah. >> Could the water tower look like a snowman? >> Yeah. >> Could we, you know, the new one? Could we make it, you know, I'm just Ron's like, >> are there new designs for water towers that we could take advantage of that I'm just >> I have I have not seen water towers shaped like >> snowman >> things. Um has a teapot. >> Yeah, there's a teapot that smokes. Nogan. >> He's using your lifeline. >> Right. For the for the right money, anything is possible. >> Yeah. I mean, something whether you're talking about >> or just put a spot on our snowman. We already got [Music] >> or extra certainly something that other communities have done, but there is a cost >> additional cost to that. Okay. >> Substantial. >> The cost estimates that we have now do not include aesthetic treatment. Okay, fair enough. >> Oh, he's good. >> Yep. >> Any other questions? >> I'm done. >> And then our next section, which is a very big section, is it's equipment. Um so you'll see see it has um uh the police interceptor uh replacement schedule. Um there's eight vehicles that get rotated every um six years. Um and then you have um everything else for every other department that's in the city from fire to um parks, streets, um forestry, um you name it. So it covers all of the different components. Uh one of the bigger ticket items that's coming up in 2030 um is the ladder truck um in the fire department. uh because that one carries a um a revised estimate of uh $2 million. Um and I'll kind of pause right there and just allow our fire chief to kind of talk about the ladder truck a little bit. Um so everybody on council is kind of aware um of the need. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, I think what I'd like to do first is do a quick brief description of our current ladder truck and understanding what it is as I compare it to the cost of a a new one in today's dollars and what it looks like. So, our current ladder truck um is a platform aerial device. So, it has the bucket on the back which holds people and it has waterways on each side to flow water. It can go up and extend out 100 feet and it can rotate 360 degrees. So, um it was built in originally in 1982. Um it was u manufactured by Sutton Corporation and I believe we purchased it through Custom Fire. Um in 2001 we refurbished it because the chassis at that time um needed to be upgraded because we actually had firefighter seats that were outside of the cab. So like we had three people inside and two people that sat outside in the back. So, it was updated in 2001 where we basically took the ladder off of the current chassis and put it on a new HME chassis. And that cost was about was $355,000 to do that refurb. So, here we are basically 43 years later and we have, you know, a a ladder device that's still functional and and works and moves, but uh we have uh and we get it tested. We have we test all of our equipment. Um but obviously there are numerous safety concerns obviously from age. Um some of the things we did back then that we no longer do now is climbing the the ladder. Um, we used to climb that ladder all the time, 100 ft up and 100 ft down. But, >> right, um, currently new newer ladders um, have 18in minimum side rails to protect the firefighter to keep them from going over. Our side rails are basically 2-in handles on the side. So, things have changed a little bit over the years. um setup time for our current ladder is about five to seven minutes and it takes three to four people where a new ladder um can be done by one person and with the automation it's done in less than a minute. So that's a big uh factor as well um and helping out. The big cost of this is it it over the last few years as as we've invested into and talked about, you know, fire equipment and the cost of it. Um it it's a lot and it continues to go up and I I just keep getting surprised um more and more. Um, but currently I've had uh multiple conversations across different manufacturers looking at at options and um currently $1.9 to $2 million for a truck that is is more of a ladder device that doesn't have a bucket on the back where a platform. So, if we were to replace our current ladder as is, we're talking 2.5 million as in right right now. Not in 2030. Each year, it's going to go up five and a half five to five a.5%. So, the 2 million for the a ladder truck, $100,000 each year. Um 2.5 million, you know $125,000 each year going up. And that's that's a big factor as well. Um, so as I've looked through our equipment and replacement as well, and it may not be a huge thing, but like Dan had had brought up in in the beginning, we've always tried to look at our equipment and see if we can push it down the road a little bit more on the smaller things, and we certainly have done that. And as I look at some of our squads that we have, our squad 5'11 and our squad 512, one that's up in 26 and one that's up in 27, I can honestly say they're in decent condition at this point. We don't have a lot of maintenance going into them. We can push them down um another year or two potentially. There is some savings in to that obviously. I don't know how that really all works out. I haven't sat down with Dan to work on that, but I do know that by doing that and potentially setting up um pushing it the the purchase of a ladder truck earlier in 2028 is going to save minimally $300,000 in today's dollars because in January 2026, it's going to go up on average they go up 5 to 5 and a half%. % each year. Now, the the other benefit of for the past few years, we've worked with a manufacturer that did the our last um engine and they do not once we lock in, we don't have to pay until we're done. It was a little different with our engine because we had to buy a chassis separately, but with this ladder, it basically would be when it's done and then we have to pay. And during that time frame, there would be no search charges where there are some manufacturers out there that also have search charges built into it. So even if you lock in your price, if there's an additional search charge, they would do that. I had verbal confirmation today from the manufacturer that tell them there would be no search charges, which is uh a big deal. Um, and obviously changes over the years in the community versus 1982 when we got the ladder truck to now, you know, um, obviously there's been growth in the community to some extent and the the needs as we've increased our our buildings and our building sizes, you know, our apartment buildings as well. So, you kind of heard me say platform and ladder. So, what I'm talking about is I'm looking around to see that any firefighters behind me and Ron's probably even going, "What are you doing?" But $2.5 million versus getting a couple calls here. $2.5 million versus $2 million is a lot of money, and I understand that. And I know with purchasing a ladder that doesn't necessarily have a bucket on the end of it. It's still going to have a waterway. It's still going to be 100 ft. still going to allow us to do the things that um I think are provide the rescues, provide firefighting uh you know up at higher levels, ventilation, the water flow and still provide a value to the community. I don't feel it as losing out. Um and that's my feeling on it just because of the cost. Plus, I can honestly say that um yeah, that's >> I've had some thought about it and talked with other chiefs and seen what other departments have have done in the past. So, I'll kind of leave it at that. If you have any more questions, I do have advantages, disadvantages, stuff like that, but I don't know. I think you may have other questions for me. No, that's why you are the fire chief and we are not. So, I mean, we'll trust your judgment on this and I mean the safety of the firefighters under your care is your first and foremost cons well, one of your first and foremost concerns. So, yeah, >> I know you did a good job at pricing out the engine. You looked around to quite a few different places and you put a lot of that and it's appreciated by what >> I really feel proud. I'm to say that we got a good deal at $800,000 for an engine is unreal because I know there are departments right now that are paying 1.1 to 1.4 for a brand new engine two years later. >> Yeah, appreciate that. >> But I I I do think uh for me the big the the biggest thing that I would like you to think about is the potential savings by moving it up uh a couple years. >> Yeah. When you're talking percentages, I mean, a percentage of, you know, 5% of two million versus 5% of, you know, 65 65,000 for unit 512. Yeah, >> it's a huge deal. So, I mean, if we push that one back and move this one forward, yeah, that absolutely makes sense. >> I mean, not the same amount of money, but the savings is huge. So, >> and you also need to look at it that, you know, obviously it's going to have a useful life of like 35 years, 30 to 35 years versus many of our pieces of equipment, you know, are going to be more in that range of 10, 15 years. So, moving something up that could potentially save you, you're going to realize that over the years. So, >> is there any market for the old one or is it just too old? >> Um, there is a limited market out there. Um there are places that will will buy it, but um much like our current old engine that will eventually go out there um you know that's a potential I'm seeing out there in the market anywhere from $30 to $40,000 for the old engine. So, this ladder um because it was refurbed, the chassis is probably valued more than that. But, um it it all depends what's uh saturated in the market at that time. There's a couple different u um businesses out there that purchases uh the trucks and resell them. >> Okay. Other questions on equipment items? [Music] >> No. >> All normal routine as far as we're six years now. We're up six years is for the police for the police units. >> That is correct. Yes. >> I think didn't that move around a little bit, wasn't it? five and then >> yeah, when I originally came here it was seven years. Um it got moved down to five and then back up to six was what was agreed to with uh the police chief at that time and uh city council. >> So we've got uh about 10 minutes left to the workshop. So kind of just take kind of a reminder where we're at quickly with the proposed 2026 levy. um that our 2026 levy achieves that 6% levy increase. No utility rate increases uh for 2026. Um again shows the different components. Um if we add HR and EDA we have a total of levy because they're all leveies. Um comes to 5.84% kind of walks you through and some of these items we'll end up discussing next Tuesday about the penalty transfer um and um some other components. But that's how we ended up achieving um the 2026. And you can really see that the bigger the biggest driver again is your personnel costs and then it's these levies for the CIP. Some other information >> what is next Tuesday? >> I'm sorry. Our next our next meeting. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The first Tuesday in September. I if I misspoke. >> Um is isn't that >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So not next Tuesday. radio was going to miss a meeting. >> He said next Tuesday. >> Um so right now if we were to look at you know with this 5.8 uh four total levy increase um if you looked at a medium value income home um in 2025 of $33,000. Um, you know, basically there would be no property tax increase um based upon the preliminary numbers or values that are coming out of Ramsey County. Um, the median value did increase um 2.41% from 303 to 310. So when we put that into um action with the 5.84 8 for 4% uh total levy increase. The tax bill for a resident um meeting that criteria um would increase um 37 $38 um about 2.8%. Part of the reason for that um even though levy's going up is kind of wanted to show I mean this was one of our council members um had talked about fiscal disparities. So if you look over the past 10 years, here's where the levies are in in the orange color and then in the blue is what the fiscal disparities um has that we have received. So in other words, we can levy $8.4 million. We're getting fiscal disparities of $1.7 million. So that means our taxpayers are paying for $6.7 million. They're not paying the full 8.4. 4 uh million because we are in the fiscal disparities world, we're a winner. Um and to answer the council member's question, fiscal disparities um has been if you look consistently across the 10 years, it's right around about a 20%. Um so for every dollar that we raise and levy, we've been pretty close to getting 20 cents back in fiscal disparities. I do have sleepless nights since the time that I've been here that um I'm responsible for increasing the levy um over time. Um but if we So what I did was part of what this graph is showing is the orange line here is the levy for the city HR and EDA and the blue is for our streets, parks and facilities. Again, it's that component that I've been talking about if you want to pay for that that capital improvement plan that you have to do the levies. So, when I look at this, I have a little bit more comfort that if I look at the pay 24 versus the pay 26, so in two years, um, our levy for city H and EDA has only gone up $60,000. where the increase has been is over a million dollars has been levied for streets, parks, facilities. Um, and that's what the trend is again been trying to emphasize is going to be continuing if you want that CIP plan um to be able to afford that. Um, again, and then and I'm going to show one more graph of this. These are some of the items that we'll be talking that were kind of outstanding when we kind of looked at and that's do we add that $30,000 for the le for the parks. Um the community center is going to require a transfer of approximately $85,000 for that operation um in its current state. And then um there was discussion on whether to continue to do that $131,000 um transfer um from the the penalty from the electric to the general fund or to levy those dollars. And those will be some things that we'll pick up um the first meeting in September. Um and and part of as we set that maximum levy. One final slide that I wanted wanted to to show um is that as we compare ourselves to other cities in Ramsey County um and I and I know that um a lot of the taxpayers have seen um increases in their property taxes and I think we all know the reasons why now it's really being driven by that infrastructural needs. Um, but here's a look at the cities from 2020 to 2025. Um, and as we look at this graph, here's where the levies have increased. So, over the past five years, um, on an average, we've um, increased our levy 8.3%, we're actually in the middle of the cities in Ramsey County. Um the one that has the highest percentage is White Bear Lake at 20.6. A lot of that has to do with um building a brand new public safety facility and some other infrastructural needs. And then you see the low end is Falcon Heights at a 6%. But overall of those five years, um it's averaged 7.5% for these these cities in in um Ramsey County. So when you look at it from that standpoint, we're not really out of line. You remember last year and I've mentioned it a number of times, our property tax rate is the second highest in Ramsey County only behind um you know for a city that's fully within Ramsey County behind St. Paul. Our levy is kind of in line but our rate goes up a little bit higher. Part of that again is we don't have that commercial base. We have a residential base. Um and so when you convert a market value for a resident versus commercial, it has a lower net tax capacity um rate that's set by a state statute which results in a lower base in which you you know um so your levy is your numerator. Your net tax capacity or market value converted over is your denominator. When you do it, your rate just is higher than the other ones. But from a levy standpoint, we have been um relatively in line with what the other cities in um Ramsey County um have been facing too. >> Any final questions? Give you three minutes back. Four minutes. >> We will continue at our next uh city council meeting and try to set that maximum tax levy. >> Sounds good. >> Nothing else. Can I get a call for? >> So moved. >> So moved. Council member Schwar. >> Second. Second. Council member Woods. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Give us five minutes and we'll be back.