oh god our help and ages past our hope for years to come i'll shelter from the stormy blast and i eternal home oh god the father god the son god the holy spirit we thank you and we bless you for your grace and your mercy we thank you so much oh god for giving us another opportunity to live on your earth breathe your air and walk on your ground we thank you so much for giving your only son jesus christ that we might have a right to the tree of life lord we ask right now before we request anything that you will forgive us for all of our sin all of our shortcomings all of our wrongdoings and we ask right now oh god that you would come into our city come into this room this chamber and bless our mayor because our city council bless our city manager and her staff god bless the residents of this county this city and god right now we want you to be glorified in all that we do we act right now lord you will take hold of this meeting use it for your glory in jesus name we pray can we all say amen amen i pledge allegiance thank you bishop macrae all right in accordance with the freedom of information act chapter 4 title 30 go to laws of south carolina in 1976 an agenda has been posted on the front door of city hall and notification of this meeting has been given to the news media madam clerk can we confirm that we have a quorum yes sir mr mayor we have a quorum present all right thank you what we have up first approval of the consent agenda all right is the agenda amendment after this okay all right everybody had an opportunity to read the minutes and the reports if so do i hear a motion motion to approve consent agenda motion by mr bass two years have a second by miss hutto all in favor of approval of the consent agenda miss bulls all right thank you all opposed that motion carries by a vote of six to zero marion council i would like to request that we amend the agenda um staff is requesting that if council could amend by moving public appearances and new business to the front of the agenda and removing new business item number three thank you do we hear a motion motion to amend our agenda to move public appearances and new business to the beginning of our agenda and remove new business item number three here second second i got a motion about mr best second by ms bartlow any further discussion regarding the amendment proposal all in favor of amending the agenda as stated all right thank you opposed motion carries by a vote of six to zero and just for the record the new business item number three will actually appear on your june 7th agenda okay all right under public appearance number one is to recognize tara smith of trash time with tara to discuss litter prevention efforts all right come on up hi everyone hello okay hi everyone thank you for having me here i had that i've had the chance to meet i think each one of you and get to know you a little bit except miss partlow so ms partlow i'm tara smith nice to meet you um first i wanted to thank each one of the city council members for serving our city i know how much time and effort it takes to do what you do and i want to acknowledge that and let you know that it's appreciated as most of you know i began a monthly litter pickup event back in november of 2018 when mayor smith was sworn into office i call it trash time with tara i coordinate different locations throughout the city in which to have a litter pick up once a month the reason i initially started this effort was because keeping our city clean helps to instill a pride and ownership of our community it's a simple way for citizens to get involved and give back regardless of how old or young or who you are it's an all-inclusive volunteer activity now i'd like to explain why i'm in front of you today i am excited about partnering with each one of you city council members to help clean up your wards we have a schedule set with dates and locations through september and i think it's shown up on the powerpoint there this partnership was sparked by and modeled after the gateway cleanup project that greenwood county is currently doing i'd like to ask that each of you help set an example by participating with me in the pick up free award i also ask for you to please help me to increase community participation by encouraging your constituents to come to your awards pickup i have my own facebook page titled trash time with tara in which i will be posting all of the dates details and locations of each pickup i'll also post a video on the greenwood calendar a week or so prior to each event so i will be doing my best to recruit volunteers as well i believe this is a great way for the city and the community to engage with each other for the shared purpose of improving our home of greenwood i think the first pickup event is scheduled for this saturday may 22nd from 9 00 am until 11 a.m it's in nikki hutto's ward which is ward 1 and will be meeting at the united center on phoenix street thank you thank you appreciate it the best public appearance i've ever seen thank you very much and we encourage everyone to come out on any of those dates that will be online and join us as we pick up trash under public appearance item number two is to recognize zaquez fluker with gleams in regard to the community services department hey good afternoon evening hello how are you no you can't tell i was smiling under my mask when i was going up here um anyway my name is jacquez vlooker as mentioned i am the assistant community services program director at gleams and i believe this is probably my third year before you to try to get a proclamation for community action month as i've said year after year i'm not going to go into the speech that i normally do but gleams is one of a thousand community action agencies across the country and we're working to try to help our low-income communities and families and this year marks the 57th year since we've been in business so to speak the fight the war on poverty continues on and that's pretty much where we came out from and we offer a plethora of services from head start emergency services weatherization we're all about trying to give a voice to the poor be an advocate and put them at the table so we can have more meaningful impact on our communities so to get the proclamation is more than just getting a signature on a piece of paper it's really important to have recognition and support for instance a couple of weeks ago our state association the south carolina association of communication partnership they obtained a proclamation from governor mcmaster so it's really important for us to get recognition and support so we do thank you and i just want to throw this out there as the flyer indicates we are having community action day it will be a drive-through event due to the ongoing pandemic we'll have free food which is the draw but most importantly we will have resources for anybody who comes up or drives through i should say we'll have resources as it relates to mental health youth services for instance ymca have graciously put i believe a free guest passed in their resource packet for us so we're really reaching out to our community partners and vendors to let our community know what resources are out there because a lot of people don't know what's out there and that's why the work that we do in our partnerships are helpful so with all that said thank you thank you mr what you what you do and that is friday yes this friday from 10 to one it's going to be at the in the parking lot the brewery community brewer community complex we start at 10 but probably the earlier the earlier you get there the better thank you well i appreciate what gleams does for our community we know a lot of the folks over there have been have been doing good work for many years so i'm i'm happy to sign this proclamation if you'd like me to read it as well i'm happy to do so sure we've got a lot of people here that probably don't know about us sure well let me read the proclamation for community action month whereas community action emerged from the heart of president lyndon b johnson's 1964 proclamation of america's war on poverty where battles must be won on the field in every private home and every public office from the courthouse to the white house and whereas community action has put a human face on poverty for 57 years by advocating for limited income citizens without a voice so that they may enter the middle class and reach for the american dream replacing the despair with opportunity and whereas community action serves 99 percent of america's counties in rural suburban and urban communities connecting millions of children and families to approaches that help them succeed and whereas gleams human resources commission is the community action agency in greenwood county working to help communities in 15 counties including greenwood lawrence edgefield abbeville mccormick newberry and saluda by providing services and opportunities such as energy assistance emergency rental and mortgage assistance head start weather head start weatherization workforce development services and many others and whereas community action insists on community participation and involvement ensuring that all sectors of the community have a voice and will be heard and whereas community action changes people's lives embodies the spirit of hope improves communities and makes america a better place to live so now therefore i brandon smith mayor of the city of greenwood do hereby proclaim may 2021 as community action month in recognition of the hard work and dedication of gleams human resources commission inc and all community action agencies thank you thank you [Applause] and would it be possible to get a quick thank you for wearing flats today thank you very much um our next item under public appearance is direct recognize bishop oliver mcrae moore's chapel baptist church julie mr mann city council everybody that's attended i want to thank you so much for this opportunity to share a few words um there has been so much negativity against our law enforcement officials nationwide worldwide we understand what is happening in our nation when it involves our release i cannot speak for people in other cities municipalities i cannot speak for people in detroit l.a new york atlanta but i can speak for greenwood and i would like to say to you mr mayor tj the the chief and the city council that i am so proud of the work that our police is doing in the black community where our church is i cannot thank them enough every time we call them they're there they have made every effort thus far to work with those in the community if anybody knows me they know i have something i call trash talk that i do every friday then i take a trash can up and down sumpter street and baptist avenue and pick up trash and while i'm picking up trash i talk to the neighbors and they are pleased they are happy they are excited about us being involved they're excited about me being a little uh a medium between city council and the community i just want to say to tj i want to say to you i'm sorry not tj uh chief tj i want to say to him the chief of the police i want to say to the community police officers that have worked hard with me diligently compassionately that i know a lot of black folk all over the country are complaining about police but there's a black man in greenwood standing right here got something good to say about the police you guys have done what you're supposed to do and you're helping a pastor as a community leader as a father as a grandfather and i dare someone say something negative about the greenwood police because i have on hands with the green woodpeckers that every time i've needed them now i'm not saying you're perfect but i'm saying you're 90 and uh i i can't i can't thank god for him i hope this is recorded i hope green will know if we would know about it and i hope and pray that when something negative happens when something controversial happens that involves our police that these types of meetings that we had with the police would be proactive to prepare us for dialogue to communicate instead of being violent against businesses and neighborhoods i hope that's the case i wanted to personally come and thank julia thank you mr mayor thank you jonathan all of you all uh that do the hiring you all that do the training you all uh that have um uh that meet with the police they met [Music] and with the police officers um a lot negative could be said about police all over the country i know there's some negative i know there's some bad apples in every bunch but i don't pass in atlanta and i don't pastor in detroit and i don't pass it in chicago but i am concerned about what's happening in those cities god sent me to greenwood and i can only speak for greenwood that i am proud of the blue here in greenwood and i hope that the blue the black dwight the green alliance can work together amen to keep this city safe thank you all so much for your time have a blessed day amen thank you bishop mcrae uh we are very encouraged by the work that our law enforcement's doing as you mentioned they're not perfect they're human beings but i i'm very encouraged with chief shadowing at the at the helm you if it's every friday this trash talk or trash walk every friday i'm gonna get out there with you maybe i'll bring chief out there with me and we'll we'll uh we'll join you and walk up and down um i'll be happy to so if y'all put my walking shoes on we'll we'll go out together it's always good to hear uh positive feedback because we do receive we receive constructive criticism often so thank you bishop mcrae appreciate that what do we have next all right under new business i think i'm missing a slide oh here it is under new business item number one is to consider ordinance number 21-021 authorizing the city manager and the city clerk to execute a site lease agreement between the city of greenwood and d.j swearinger or assigns i know that we are all familiar with the issues here this involves a piece of property directly behind the old r.l stevens center that mr swearinger just bought and so as the as the lease reads and the the agenda reads the lease is uh the short-term lease is proposed with the idea of some type of transfer to mr swearinger and or his assigns related entities should we note this as uh that this is um what was discussed during executive session that's right and just for the record i think we're going to ask that we have a second reading in public appearance our next meeting which is june 7th it's work typically a work session but we're going to ask to to enter into some business that day do i hear a motion before we make emotions we also say that there is no um monies or anything like that in exchange it is truly just a lease agreement between the city and mr swellinger that's correct there's no consideration for the lease similar to the way the city operates with the toro's fields there yes ma'am thank you for noting that okay okay motion to approve ordinance number 21-021 authorizing the city manager and city clerk to execute a site lease agreement between the city of greenwood and d.j swearinger or signs i have a motion by mr bass second by mr abels any further discussion regarding this proposed lease or the or the authorization to the city manager for the proposed lease all in favor of ordinance number 21-021 miss polls yeah all right all opposed that motion carries by a vote of six to zero under new business item number two is to consider the acceptance of the city center master plan as presented by tool design so i'm going to recognize chris lamka and his team if they want to come on up they've been working with us since uh 2019 on the city center master plan and cove had slowed us down a little bit but here we are afternoon y'all hey thank you all for letting us be here we're extremely excited to be here in front of you uh it's been some time since we're back here and mayor and council we're thankful for your participation um throughout this process as well we'll go around the room and just introduce ourselves really quick my name is chris lampka and i've been leading the exercise with tool design i'm charles howell with the land plan group of landscape architecture and civil engineering irene dumas tyson with boudreaux and also want to recognize heather mitchell in the back who is president boudreau who's here with us we want to present quickly it's about a 100-page document but we want to get through this relatively quickly but spend time where it's due because this is very important for the city as we move forward as we mentioned our firms here that we're working with you but tool design has a simple mission and i do want to take the time to quickly read this and it's to support innovative streets and dynamic communities where people of all ages and ability can enjoy walking biking and access to transit this is more than just a description of what we do it's the lens through which we see the world around us and it defines our approach to every project that we work on simply put we focus on people and we want to make sure that people like we said of all ages and abilities no matter the mode of travel can come to the city center and experience what you have to offer and be able to be here in a safe environment and enjoy again what you have to offer but we need to start with where you've been in the past and for over 150 years your city center has been shaped by transportation actually your city was founded and moved based on the railroad then this in the 70s we pulled up the railroad track the last remaining bit of railroad a little bit after this image and you can see it is a sea of asphalt and parking lot um and you have uh affectionately known as the the widest main street in the country um and to put that into perspective um you know here this this is where you've come thus far and you've done an amazing job the the to put the width of main street into perspective from basically chapin to spartanburg i-26 that section from asphalt to asphalt on the other side of the roadway could fit through here and actually have more room to get wider just to put that into perspective so we want to again recognize where you've been so you had a great master plan that was completed back in 2003 and you completed 16 items on that and that's amazing and you culminated with your your farmer's market pavilion and splash pad and so what we needed to do is update that and so we wanted to update you with another 10 plus years out but we wanted to define the purpose of the plan and so that purpose was again to have great street solutions that we just discussed earlier do a general build out and market analysis within uptown develop concepts for uptown square pedestrian plazas pocket parks and alleyways look at multimodal connectivity especially the connection of heritage trail into uptown do existing plan reviews and then simply to continue the momentum and we start by listening we have to listen to your community and we had multiple avenues for you to come the community to come out and speak with our team and we identified several areas and and different different items here it says what amenities would you like an uptown shopping coffee shop you know those sorts of things um how far would you be willing to walk and i pay close attention to that so 41 of individuals said they would walk up to six minutes you can walk from one end of uptown to the other in ten just to put that into perspective and then we looked at priorities for mobility and priorities for local user as we wanted to look at main street and tackle main street we also had an online mapping exercise where anyone could get on and and give us anonymous feedback and opinion for intersection improvements treatments plantings place making safety but what does that culminate it culminates and gives us some direction of what greenwood wants so one is the first one is to retain uptown's historic front porch charm and character more residential retail and event space within uptown a central gathering space that serves as the heart of the community to retain uptown's historic front porch charm more residential retail and event space within uptown a central gathering space and again to continue that momentum so through that we knew that individuals wanted to go back to an uptown square and we created a diagram key here that basically showed what we want to do from a transportation standpoint as well as green space and some infill development in town to really create that up the uptown square and that led to guiding principles so that we could move forward with the design so the guiding principles read small town aesthetic and charm safety and enjoyment for all ages and abilities community place making that brings people together multimodal connections between places mixed-use infill and greater diversity of businesses streets that place people first and then continual engagement of uptown patrons so the plan what you'll see is that we primarily focused one block off of main street and did all of uptown's limits within the city as well as a catalyst site of the old kitson mill site so the first option is a two-lane divided roundabout option and as we move um from left to right we're actually going from north to south and item number one is a gateway transition that's both at the beginning and the end so we need to visually narrow um and physically narrow the roadway then you would be met with a roundabout which is a two-lane roundabout in that location we would then be at three lanes uh not the current four lanes uh that you have that are full lane divided it would be two lanes with a center left turn lane so three lane roadway um then seaboard avenue we want to at that location reutilize some of the existing right-of-way so that we can add multimodal facilities and landscaping up against where the the railroad currently is and change that from a signalized intersection to a a three-way stop we want to then align oregon avenue where that number four is right now it is a skew and does not align and you can't get across there so we want to take care of that and then you'll be met with another roundabout at maxwell and then you're in really what we're calling the heart of uptown where we have a large green space developed which charles will get into in a minute and then we have an oak avenue extension there we want to realign oak avenue and straighten it out and allow individuals to make a left and right turn where it is a right turn only currently so that's the two lane divided roundabout option so that cross station would look very similar to this i know it's a little far away for everyone to see but it is a 11 foot travel lane with a 2 foot curb and gutter on each side and 11 foot center median where you could landscape that or again have the the left turn lanes and then on the right side the heritage trail connection it would be a minimum of 14 feet wide in order to accommodate social riding to people abreast going in each direction and so here is the before looking north and this is the after of what it could be so our second option is a a four lane divided so what we would do is a lateral shift to the west but it would still maintain the four lanes of travel but it would take it from approximately 98 feet from the curb to curb down to 55 feet so that an individual does not have to cross an additional almost 40 feet of roadway in order to make it safely from one side of the street to the other so again we're met with gateway transitions at pedro avenue we would have uh realignment there and it would be signalized seaboard avenue would still maintain the three lanes or the two lane divided and allow the multi-modal facilities in landscaping or complete street conversion we would still accommodate the oregon avenue adjustment to where we're realigning that and connecting over to waller avenue and then again you're met with signalized intersection at maxwell and court and that cross section again is very similar but it would be two 11 foot lanes on each side of the roadway and 11 foot center lane so here is the existing and then the after so again taking it from 98 foot wide of a cross section down to 55. yeah so the the point is so what do you do with all that green space you pick up or the rope that's now asphalt that you pick up um and so one of the key things is obviously we make it a square like chris said that came out of public input a place to meet a city center but one of the key things number one you see there's a flush street so we would make part we call them park street right now they're just parking lots on the top and bottom those have become two-way to take some of the traffic off the main street would help those flush streets would be ada accessible um they would be different pavement so that they're pedestrian friendly and then they also can because they're they're flush they can be an extension of the park so the the total green space number two is the formal lawn so those are event spaces um the three is a water feature of some kind and that's centered on oak street which is virtually the realignment of oak you get that the center of the park the walking loop like chris talked about the heritage trail connection that would be on the western side or the lower side of main street on the north side there would be those are bathroom pavilions or ticket booths if you have events um with a promenade and then where five is this would be um it's saying the shared used path but that's also like signage so you'd have the the sense that you're actually in uptown but chris was talking about the signage earlier a couple of things is a court street connection the oak street we're going to propose hopefully you need more parking so we're going to propose some pedestrian connections there and some alleys that we'll show you in just a second so that section looks like this um starting from the right this would be the west side i'm sorry the east sides of the buildings on the uh on the right parking parallel spaces and all that's flush and then all the way through the park to the tree there so that park would be about three acres of green space if you add the flush streets that becomes four to four and a half acres and while that's important that right there is about just over an acre and a half so you could double your capacity there you could spread people out you know with cove and everything that would be important but that's your event space between oak and court so that space gets double the size with that that possibility another thing we want to look at is like we talked about is just underutilized spaces opportunities this is maxwell where you already have some momentum going to your farmers market this is existing parking lot number two and number one and what the twos and ones are would be infill retail residential above that was one of the things we heard number six to the right that's long alley we would want to make that pedestrian friendly and number four there's a um it's kind of a it would be an alley street kind of like waller is and we'll talk about waller in a second um canterbury lights and there's some examples of what those the parking deck we'd want it to look like a building not a parking deck obviously with retail on included on that and then waller of course we want to make that a flush street as well so the bottom right corner or bottom sorry bottom left corner of the right drawing is your park where it empties out onto waller or maxwell maxwell would be two-way there onto the roundabout or onto the new intersection waller street would become a flush street and so this this gives an opportunity if you if you're not having a big event if you're just having like a friday night concert or movies or whatever you could have that there we've got some examples this is currently now and waller's pretty attractive street um what it could become and then over to the hampton place shopping center so the the parking deck on maxwell is just to the south of this over past oregon and that pedestrian connection that long avenue or long alley long street that would make an alley pedestrian friendly that would tie to this you could put a pedestrian bridge that's the bridge going over the railroad into the hampton place shopping center another place of opportunity to continue that the one there on the right right next to the top right corner would be infill that would continue your face or facades of main street to to bring that across the robo track um we'd had street trees that parking lot would just be kind of an overall renovation of that parking lot again some examples of what the pedestrian bridge could look like cafe seating we would recommend work with a private developer to upset that and usually when you invest obviously the the local or the private sector invest too so we talk yes go ahead get back y'all down i want to let you go i know we probably all have a ton of questions but with like hampton and then what you were showing uh before back at the city lot those are options that you could do those are things you could do with either traffic option that you've showed us that is exactly right okay all these options are either or traffic traffic circles or no traffic circles that's right um the the key there is uh like here and i didn't talk about thank you on waller that the street north of this oregon that's that's shown in the realignment there's a building that's been torn down so we would to realign that that road would actually be on the where the building is and then we have two infill spaces the number two would be infill spaces where buildings are missing now just to complete that street and i think we might pick that up yeah there's the missing buildings and then there's the infill um yeah so uh oh ally so uh the alley to maxwell waller avenues so that goes to phoenix where you have public parking so you know beautify those dress them up make people more comfortable traveling you know we're if you have a parking problem that's a good thing on uptown um so um we're trying to think ahead you know that there would be a need for additional parking so the phoenix parking lot long alley like we talked about with the back side of the parking deck tying it over to the hampton uh crossing shopping center and then even the alley behind the mill house this goes all the way to edgeville road so that milhouse development your farmers market if we can make a connection there we see the potential there's a whole bunch of vacant land back there too just um how that how all those connections can be made and then you know how these could look canterbury lights you know uh the movie night that would be like what you could do on waller avenue so you don't have to take the whole park space up or you could do it in the park um and then um on maxwell the art lot um over there by the long i'll even know you can make it mural spaces and those type of things so just kind of some dream wish list stuff mayor and council uh first of all i do want to say i was part of the original master planning team back in 2003 and so it is just so wonderful to come back and see all that you have accomplished and just want to applaud y'all again as as chris did earlier and say what an honor it is to be on on this team too and kind of looking ahead for the next 10 years ed mcmahon who is a a fellow with the urban land institute has this amazing quote that i just love you can read it here but successful communities capitalize on their distinctive authentic assets their architecture history natural surroundings and homegrown businesses rather than trying to adopt a new and different identity so one of our primary recommendations and again this is thinking long term for the town of greenwood is to return to your authentic self by removing the arcades that are on your beautiful historic buildings in uptown so we feel that this will be transformative for uptown and can really you know set apart and celebrate your history here and it really goes hand in hand with a lot of the place making that you've seen from you know the the realignment of the roads and creating that green space um our recommendations for this are not to go about it all of a sudden and just kind of go in there and jerk these off there's a lot of work that has to be done prior to this part of it is a feasibility study to get in there and understand exactly how all these facades are attached what it's going to cost to demolish all of them this again would be phased and then also then begin moving forward with a kind of schematic design and another feasibility study to then understand what it's going to take to renovate these and come up with scope schedule and cost estimates and maybe do a block at a time or one row of buildings at a time but again i think you know but to begin this very important work of transforming uptown will be amazing one of the hopeful outcomes of this is i mean and there's there's no guarantee but you know once you are able to return if not all of these buildings but a majority of these buildings to their historic character their original historic character as much as possible they're going to become a lot more attractive to potential business owners to those who are wanting a very unique residential experience in uptown and also it's going to make these buildings possibly eligible to be listed in the national register of historic places or even to create a historic district this is going to open up incentives potential tax credits and lots lots of other incentives and things out there grants that are available to help with the transformation of these storefronts so again we we believe that this will be a game changer another game changer we believe is the kits and mill and we had a lot of fun kind of imagining you know for the three days that we were here what kits and mill could could become it's i do ideally suited for mixed use development it is located in such an easy walk to uptown and you know part of this being mixed use development is this whole notion of creative place making and what goes into making this a really authentic and unique place is first and foremost giving people places to gather what chris was sharing earlier what we heard from a lot of people you need more places for people to come together and gather and some of those uses might be you know you've got lander lacrosse team who's you know wants to come over here and practice pick up games of soccer um you know even having food trucks or festivals here is a great place to walk but engaging with the neighborhood it's also a wonderful place where you can have diverse housing here and again this is the development this could be staged what we are showing here these could be condominiums um some apartments some duplexes but then it's also really a great place for diverse business uses too with some of the you could even move into the historic building that's there and create some artist space or maker space has such a phenomenal arts community here and this could be kind of another place for them to to go but um but anyway having maker space and professional offices and kind of live work opportunities there we feel that one of the first things that needs to happen um and if this is the city itself or if this is a public-private partnership if you've got developers who are interested in this but you need to make people really connect with the site first and so one of those very first things that you can begin to do and we put together just these are some concepts for potential what this might could look like and you'll see that we have some well i can't show this but we have a nice green space there and again this could be a phase development provide that green space where the community can come you could have different types of festival the neighborhood kind of re-engages with this really amazing site here it could be a place for food truck festivals so perhaps the city and or the developer are putting in that infrastructure first and you can see here so this is the intersection of of duncan and norwood and kitson and it really addresses those nice mild mill neighborhoods that you have there we think that the architecture and the scale of the architecture and the design of the architect should really respect these nice neighborhoods that you have around there not only materials and the design but also in the scale so this is like kind of grabbing that corner it's a great intersection really encouraging walkability pulling people up through the site so you're going to get people using this site this we were showing go ahead and put the infrastructure in now for food trucks just just put in there we cities that are going ahead and putting infrastructure in for food trucks now in public parks it's going gangbusters it's a great draw and not to take away from anything that already happens up uptown on the square but this becomes another wonderful place and amenity and even this building over to the left you know that could have that could be event space a venue space for parties and weddings it could be artist galleries maker space some live work unit so it's got lots of potential but again this when you have a university here like you do with lander and all the industry that you do the number of people who are not living in greenwood but working here this is i think could be a really unique opportunity to provide some diverse housing that would um be great for lander faculty or a lot of these young families and young professionals artists who are who are working here and really would rather stay here so again this is just a few of the images that we put together to show some of the potential there and think that this site really has great opportunity okay thank you aaron you can stay there all right um so what are what are the next steps um one of the one of the things that we think that you should do is just a general consistency statement that says anything uh that happens within uh the city center or uptown um that you had make sure that you reference the plan and see if there's any way or any item that you can check off uh in your phasing plan um make sure there's a complete streets resolution um scdot actually just uh passed back in march um complete streets resolution so let's just make sure that we are asking them when they're coming through and uh doing a project that they're following with that as well as uh yourself um look at transportation network improvements start with cattle's projects we mentioned waller avenue as a big game changer and potential to continue that momentum as we work through main street and decide which route we want to go and then main street this this plan really focuses on main street and that's the heart of every community and you've done an amazing job all over uptown and we need to make sure that we focus on main street now and tackle that and then again the arcade removal in which we discussed earlier but we can't do that all at one time we definitely have to have a phased approach to do this we need to look for funding we need to tee up projects and so we have a zero to ten year scale here where we've identified all of the projects within the plan and kind of phased those out for you over zero to two three to five and then six to ten years [Music] thank you we've really enjoyed working with you all with your team ryan and julie have been great to work with you all have been great to work with and i can't not say how great your maintenance crew is here i mean they are phenomenal you guys have one of the nicest communities and downtowns and all the way down to the the landscape the grass there are no weeds you can't find those here i mean those guys are amazing well thank y'all that's like i said i know there are undoubtedly a lot of comments feedback questions i don't know what the best way to do that if that's to maybe engage all in a you know in a smaller session at some point where we can we can do that uh rather than i don't know if this is the best form but does anybody have any any thoughts anything they want to discuss with them with with them in the meantime i just want to make one quick statement i've been talking about those arcades for what 20 years now julie uh i've never liked the tops because you couldn't see the tops of the building and we've always had a problem with how do you access the top and i was told that you know you couldn't just chop off the top i said why can't we make it like a balcony and then we could have the you could see the actual historic tops of the buildings and um is there a way have you thought about a balcony type concept to access so you can have a double double access because the storefronts down at maybe have stores and retail on the bottom if you had living space or additional stores above and then someone mentioned the um engineering of rainfall and water flow when you had a balcony space so i've had this discussion for years now with those arcades because they've always aesthetically somewhat bothered me so i was jus i just cut it kind of tickled me that finally somebody agreed with me so so i just so i don't know um the feasibility of cost and whatever and they were very very i think green at the time they were considered an asset not a liability so yeah i don't think you're the first one since they were installed in the 80s to 80s in my right there to to seek them to come down but i've also had that concern of course as to how to access those upper levels but i'm assuming there was access at some point before they put those arcades up there i don't know what the 2021 going forward solution is but and and make them ada compliant yes all right so one one quick thing that i always love and and um john norquist was a former mayor of milwaukee and he always had this same question they had for city staff for years when they were at the planning department when they would come to with ideas or the public would have ideas and he would say well you would you put it on a postcard and we don't send postcards too much but we have those instagramable moments now all over that's kind of what everybody is wanting so it's like would you put would you post an instagram about it so i say that and going back to what ed mcmahon had said about authenticity and just your really distinctive assets in your architecture i think once get getting those arcades off you're going to have so many instagramable beautiful moments people are going to come here for that architecture but i would say to your point with that this is what we are recommending is the feasibility study there are so many unknowns right now and you need that feasibility study to understand number one you know how those arcades are you know are connected what it's going to cost to demolish them how you can phase it and then each one of these buildings will will have unique requirements you know and and designs to do that and you know for years you you can you can make ada happen and access to the upper floors happen depending on the nature of the building but that's something that would come out during that feasibility study and then moving on into concept design and then you'll have a real picture of of what what it's going to take you know how long it's going to take and a real strong idea of of the cost part and then also what some of those opportunities are for assistance to help fund some of these the renovations thank you i look forward to that feasibility study and reviewing the the timelines and the price tags of course associated with them but anybody else have any one thing go ahead the with the main street streetscapes and you're different we have some beautiful live oaks and we've planted we've invested a lot of money in the greenery and vegetation we have i'm hoping that these plans wouldn't disturb what greenery and what live oaks and what cherry trees we already have there is has that been taken in consideration when these these streetscapes were done uh yes ma'am so um in the the two lane divided cross section that first one with the roundabouts um we are shifting to the west and believe it or not between curb to curb already on your southbound movement so on the west side we can fit that section inside of that and not have to hurt you know take away any of the trees now i will say that due to the realignment of oregon um as well as down at maxwell that that we would lose almost i think six trees is what i calculated but the plan if you notice right now you've got 69 trees give or take some of those are in a little bit of decline but the plan that we showed actually shows 121 trees at the end of the day so we're more than doubling almost not more than almost doubling the amount of trees there and so obviously greenwood again as we complemented your main and staff we want to keep it as lush and beautiful as it is now and add to that and what was the number one thing people told you they didn't want you to touch they did not want me to touch the trees so we we did uh listen so that was only six trees right that wasn't too bad that's not too bad especially when we're planting what 60 60 more trees so we're getting we're getting close there so yes ma'am and i guess you know the corridor down max will obviously with the farmers market had been addressed a lot over the last 18 years from the first city center master plan so this one is addressing some other issues throughout uptown i suppose is that yes sir that's correct and also we want to um you know right now we have the large parking lot um right there on maxwell and so that was the maxwell commons in which we showed where we want to have infill so that what we would have is bookends and basically you'd have new store fronts with retail below residential above and inside of that you would have a parking garage and so what we want to do is continue that momentum down maxwell as well because we have what we call a missing tooth and right now we wanted we talked about one of the principles was continually engaging patrons and when you walk a few steps you every 10 seconds you want to see a new window you want to see new window shopping and that's what draws you down unless you have a certain destination down there but when you hit a parking lot a surface parking lot you lose interest pretty quickly so that's why we want to make sure that we we do address that one spot there but most of them yes sir does focus on main street and tackling main street and so the parking deck would be above that it'd also be behind max well yeah so we would have maybe 60 foot or so of a store uh in width and we go three to four stories uh whatever d you know we we think is necessary and then you'd have a parking facility in between that two to four decks and then right there at long there's another alley right there so that would actually have a frontage of storefront and apartment above and we we think of that as more of a kind of an artist or maker space area for for tenants to come in and um rent uh space and and sell you know their their merchandise thank you that's that's interesting all right well i know we any other thoughts anything else really good i'm concerned with cutting up lines down from four lines to two lanes down mine street is that what you're talking about down middle of town that's one option that is one of the options yes sir so one of the options is taking it from four lanes which is two lanes in each direction to one lane in each direction the second option in which we discussed keeps the two lanes in both directions so we did a a high level uh preliminary study of the roundabouts going through there and it functioned at a level of service a uh for the current time period uh and then we looked into 2040 and that also functioned at level service b's and c's in a in a downtown environment as you have an uptown you want to have people driving slowly and you want your intersections to be at a level of service c or d so that there is congestion you want the traffic down here you have uh two bypasses or signed routes of two u.s 225 and u.s 25 and 221 that actually are very well under capacity you're only running at about 45 to 60 percent depending on which east or west you go and so then you know main street is actually the business route and a business routes primary function uh when it comes to uh you know what its purpose is for and this is in the ash toe green book is to take people from the numbered us route or state route into a city center and back to it so that you can come in engage and then leave and i think that i think mr abel's brings up a good point is it almost seems a little counterintuitive because you cut it down but the uh if i understand the intent is for the people actually coming through uptown not that they necessarily have to but they they are more likely to actually stop and shop rather than 18-wheelers delivery trucks all you know just coming straight through am i right and what what could we do to encourage the larger trucks like that to use our bypasses now or then sure so the the actual assigned truck route um is to take the us routes uh and the sc route you know which which are considered your bypasses right now and so those are the signed routes and what we can do now i mean obviously there are 18 wheelers and delivery vehicles that do need to make stops to your patrons to your merchants in uptown um but you know you can you can also police that um so that that's one option there but yes the desire is to bring people together to have individuals actually cross main street as opposed to get in their vehicle to go to the other side so that they can take time come here spend an entire morning or an entire afternoon as a family shopping and eating and enjoying uh the uptown square thank you anybody else thank you all thank you we look forward to learning more appreciate it mayor we'll need you all to take action to accept that report do i hear a motion so moved second all right any further discussion regarding accepting the city center master plan is presented by tool design the only thing i have to say about the uh in our city center master plan uh getting back to what mr abel said that we would lose our historic uh poor lane as the widest city and you know that been documented and duly noted in history so i don't know if that's something you can take another look at but i just want to bring up that point again yeah that's a good point not you know hopefully there's a way to preserve that while you know while we don't we don't slow progress just for that designation as certainly as a history major myself would love to make sure we preserve that for sure that's a good point and this is all conceptual in nature so any anything would have to be engineered and approved by dod as well right that's right i know i just wanted to take that notice thank you any further discussion regarding this acceptance of this plan all in favor of acceptance of the city center master plan is presented by tool design yes all opposed that motion carries by a vote of six to zero what do we have next we'll take just a quick pause make sure everyone's here for discussion hmm all right miss balls you still with us miss bulls i know you probably heard a lot of background talk but you still still there maybe maybe she took a break also this miss bones if if you are a mute trust me there we go there we go i was waiting for you guys to get started okay all right here we go uh under public hearings item number one is to consider ordinance number 21-016 annexing one parcel of land approximately 0.12 acres located at 1511 montague avenue extension carolina self storage of greenwood this first reading in public hearing the area in question is in yellow here on the map the larger parcel is the cell storage parcel itself the yellow piece is a 10-foot strip that the owner has asked to be annexed into the city this will be located in ward 5 and would be assigned a general commercial zoning this is ordinance 21-016 okay do i hear a motion regarding proposed ordinance number 21-016 motion to approve second have a promotion by mr bass second by miss hutto any further discussion regarding proposed ordinance number 21-016 uh yes also is there anyone that wishes to speak in favor of proposed ordinance number 21-016 let the record reflect there are none is there anyone that wishes to speak in opposition to proposed ordinance number 21-016 let the record reflect there are none if there's no further discussion we'll go to a vote all in favor of ordinance number 21-016 miss polls hi i'm sorry i couldn't make out what you said okay all opposed to ordinance number 21-016 that motion carries by a vote of six to zero under public hearing item number two is to consider ordinance number 21-017 annexing four parcels of land approximately point three five acres located off montague avenue extension owned by greenwood commissioners of pulit works this is first reading in public these would also be located in ward 5 and if annex would be assigned r1 low resident load density residential zoning motion to approve mr mayor promotion by mr pass your second second second by ms bartlow and again is there anyone that wishes to speak in favor of ordinance number 21-017 let the record reflect there are none is there anyone that wishes to speak in opposition to ordinance number 21-017 let the record reflect there are nine any further discussion regarding proposed ordinance number 21-017 if there is no further discussion we'll take a vote all in favor of ordinance number 21-017 miss polls oh yeah all opposed a motion carries by a vote of six to zero under public hearing item number three is to consider ordinance number 21-018 indexing four parcels of land totaling approximately 87.52 acres locally located at claremont drive coaxbury road and northside drive this is first reading in public hearing all right thank you is there anyone that wishes to speak in um maybe if we could have phil and draper come up first sure and and let's see yeah uh give a general phil and draper here yeah thank you yeah give us a little background on this good afternoon can you hear me now okay great all right so this project i'm fairly sure everyone here has heard or seen about this before but we'll go through so we'll go through this pretty quickly so this is a request as julie said to reas i can i can eat it like an ice cream cone if that helps okay so this is to a request to re-zone four tracks of land about about 87.52 acres um the request is to go from r1 single family residential zoning to npr which is master planned residential master planned residential as you may remember is a fairly new zone in addition to the change in zoning it requires approval of a master plan that includes a site plan a landscape plan a description of what will be built there that is binding on the developer so if they decide to change their plan after assuming approval is given if they decided to change their plan later they would have to come back to you and start this process all over again [Music] the comprehensive plan sorry if i get to this slide denotes that this area is forecast to be medium density residential this serves principally the transition area between low density and high density residential land use areas so it is designed for a little bit higher density up to six to excuse me six dwelling units per acre is what's recommended um i'm not sure what to say i'm basically eating this microphone so okay um all right so there was a transit study performed uh by the applicant uh basically the traffic study did not recommend any changes to the traffic lights at cooksbury road northside drive it did recommend a left turn an extension of the left turn lane on northside drive into the subdivision as well as a dedicated right turn lane and a dedicated left turn lane out of both entrances there's another entrance down on cokesbury staff recommends that there is a right turn 150 foot right turn lane added off cookesbury road into the subdivision if this were approved that would be a condition of approval so the total proposed number of units is 188. that works out to about a density of 2.16 units per acre given the total acreage of the site it would be developed in three phases with 70 lots in phase 1 65 lots in phase 2 and 53 lots in phase 3. the applicant is also requesting setbacks of 30 feet along the existing existing roads of coaxbury road northside drive and and claremont avenue and then 15 foot front setbacks for the buildings residences as they'd be built inside the community five foot side setbacks and 25 foot minimum rear side book 25 foot rear setbacks in the in the development that would leave about 47 of the site uh open for open space which is what the applicant is proposing to do is dedicate that as open space a couple last notes here um the applicant is proposing to include a pool and a tot lot on the side of playground that applicant still needs to identify what playground equipment would be used or placed on site i should say and then they have provided a landscape plan um today actually about 2 30 which shows some new buffering zones some new additional plants and and how they'd screen the development from the existing neighborhoods planning we've managed to take a high-level look at that but haven't had the time or opportunity to dive into it in detail so if you wanted to i'd recommend asking the applicant questions about that if you had specific questions about what they're proposing to do with that it's it's outlined in the last page of this that they just gave us yeah you can see it there and i i that came so late um in the day i couldn't get through all of it either the issues that we addressed that we talked about at planning at our last meeting all of those were included appeared to be in my from what i see is that do you do you agree with that statement um it appears i haven't had time to do actual counts and see if it meets the requirements of the buffer zone in the code there are a couple areas where it appears that we talked about having actual buffer plants that they've requested to just leave as what's existing they have not requested to replace that but again i'd let the applicant speak to that because i haven't had a chance to to do a deep dive into it at this time at this point and the reason being with the existing because they provide better buffer than other proposed plant trees is that my understanding not necessarily better it's it's there are actually some areas where where was discussed that these should be buffer plants and there they haven't proposed anything there other than natural existing vegetation so there we may want to take a look at that okay so anything we may do today could be contingent before second reading on whether they shore up anything exactly and then to just kind of wrap up if you were to approve this and our recommendation based off the comprehensive plan and the code would be to recommend approval um but it would need to meet these conditions that are listed i'm glad to read them if you'd like me to in addition to making sure any concerns that u.s council have are addressed prior to approval or as conditions of approval okay too far so these are some of councils and i understand the original plan called for 227 homes is that right yes and they've reduced it they've reduced the proposal by about 40 units down to 188 that's correct currently it's it's county zoned r one is that correct yes sir okay with the county the current county zoning if they were to utilize all 87.5 acres how many how many homes could they put on there under r1 without having to go to county council for any type of approval change with with no mitigation no accounting for wetlands is what you're asking for right be about 254 lots is what they could do currently under the current zoning that exists yes but that's not counting any infrastructure or wetlands or existing conditions okay have they had the conditions that you just mentioned have those been satisfied not at not at this time however if again if the council decided to approve this those could be conditions of approval clearly it would be better to move forward without the conditions to have them addressed prior to final approval but they could be done as conditions of approval absolutely and with the npr it gives us a tool to basically decide like you're saying what everything we want to see in there so they can't veer off that there's no they can't alter that right so with the current county r1 zoning designation are there any requirements for buffering at all there are not the mpr does allow the opportunity for council to request these buffering additional plants and so forth to buffer between the existing communities that would not be available through r1 okay so basically npr allows us to give more protection to neighboring property owners in the current county zoning ordinance provides that's one way to look at it yes right thank aren't they you to continue with the development if they the zone is not approved i'm sorry what was what was the question miss rose when the developer continue developing i mean with the plans if the zoning was not approved if it stayed on one i would probably let the applicant answer that question directly but i will say that at planning commission that was what was represented that it would not move forward if the rezoning was denied okay anybody else have any questions for draper and phil i don't know if you were going to add anything as well well r1 is basically less than a third of an acre correct in the county right yeah it's not an acre lot r1 in the county zoning is not an acre lot it's a third less than a third of an acre that's correct it's 15 000 square foot 15 000 square feet so r1 is not r1 does not mean one acre lot so the lots really aren't that big in r1 that's correct okay i mean it can be bigger but the minimum the the minimum so basically builders today build at the minimum so it's not like r1 in r1 in the city is different than r1 in the county so the this master plan basically gives more protection as far as minimizing visibility of what's going on in those acreages yes okay does anybody else have any questions for draper really anything you want to dab does anybody have any questions for phil all right one more thing when the traffic study was done it was done for more homes correct it was based on the original number it was 200 based on 227 but there's only going to be 108 there's going to be 188 is the proposal that is what is in the process a public hearing uh opportunity for y'all if y'all could make sure we we stay quiet let the speakers speak because i'm going to give every we're going to give every development an opportunity to speak so anything else for draper all right thank you all right is there anyone that wishes to speak in favor of proposed ordinance number 21-018 yes sir you may have to turn that on and speak directly into it get my paper right uh good evening mr mayor and members of council my name is paul harrison i work with bluewater civil design we're the civil engineers and i'm here tonight speaking on behalf of the applicant mark three properties i'm really here to answer any questions that you may have um concerning the the the rezoning request concerning buffering concerning our statement of intent and our plan i can assure you that anything that comes out of the uh the traffic study that we did misutto brought up a good point about that traffic study was based on the original number of lots we're not even at this point we're not worried about revising that traffic study we will adhere to what the original traffic impact study says and that we plan on fully doing all of the improvements and the um the mitigation that the traffic study calls for and not only that as far as what comes out of the permitting process through scdot for our encroachment permit for our for our driveways um the buffering uh there were some questions that came up about the buffering a very good valid point our first goal always is to preserve existing vegetation around the community it existing vegetation can be your best buffer out there and we want to we want to first try to preserve that existing vegetation and use that as our natural buffer in the event that there is additional plantings needed we're willing to supplement those areas to provide a nice uh a nice buffer screening between our residents and adjacent residents along the exterior of our property so we will work diligently with staff with the city through the permitting process and we will make sure that we address any concerns that council has that adjacent property owners have and and that staff has so we we we plan on fully complying with that um we feel like we have a good plan i know that there's some opposition here on behalf of that and i don't sit here tonight um saying that this type of development's for everybody um but for every person in opposition i can name a person out there that lives in a neighborhood of this nature and it's it's a provided need or it's a need in the city and in the area an affordable product a low maintenance product that still gets to enjoy the amenities of protected open space that each and every homeowner in the community can use and um and it'll be protected in perpetuity um we will have an hoa we will have entrance monuments we will have street lights we will have landscaping it'll be a nice development and a nice neighborhood that i think the city could be proud of so with that being said if anyone has any questions i'll be glad to to to answer any of those questions does anybody have any questions for mr harris first question i have is actually the entrance off north side drive um there's a house right beside that actually that entrance is between a church and a house it appears to me that that and that's actually 107 north side drive is that house and then on the other side is aldersgate united methodist church um there needs to be a crystal clear plan about how you're going to protect this guy's house at that entrance um i mean the the driveway is going to be right beside his house that's got to be crystal clear for us i mean there needs to be a wall there needs to be something there can't just be a couple trees there um it is very very close if you could look at that as an engineer i mean and provide us especially maybe even at the second hearing if there is one that that you can give us a good plan um that's that of all the letters we've received and pal we've look we've gotten a lot of letters um and this one right here is the one that bothers me the most to be honest is because there's there's gonna be entrance that 188 houses are gonna be driving right beside his house multiple times a day and uh i mean and i think the mayor met with him he brings some very valid a lot of people have valid concerns but in particular this one right here um i've read the work the words um uh degradation of of life and and this is going to impact my life this one right here is the one that i is the most legitimate one that i had read um that i that i would personally have the hardest it would be impact me and my family so if if you guys could really look at that from an engineering standpoint to see how we creatively um do that if this were to get a second reading i'd love to see a plan leading up to that that would be that would be ideal we did get the we did get this this um landscape plan and i think there was going to be some more information that we were going to ask for based on at our planning planning meeting but i um so i look forward to seeing that too i would concur with mr bass on that that that one certainly is the one that gives me the most concern and i guess uh ju ju tell me what again we can't if if this was to be approved tonight before second reading we could confirm some of those details is that right tell me what we what we can do in that regard if council was inclined to prove first reading you could set some parameters forth in which the developer would have to comply with prior to second reading and if those things were not complied with you could always vote it down or you could table it until those things were determined to your satisfaction i will say this is the landscape plan that they provided earlier today this is the drive that you're speaking of on the left side of the screen here and i don't know if you want to speak paul to what's yeah i apologize i'm i'm not a landscape architect uh we have uh the owner uh the the applicant mark three properties had this done um but i can assure you and i don't mind saying this on their behalf we will be glad to meet with the owner of the property next door on site we'll be glad to meet with staff we'll be glad to do whatever we can do to help appease them so that there's no light pollution or anything uh onto their house or into their uh windows uh at night with traffic entering or exiting out of our neighborhood i can i can assure you that we will we will make every effort to appease them and provide something that everybody can be happy with with a neighborhood this size is are two entrances ingress egress required is that well as you guys were sitting here talking about this i thought to myself what if uh i mean i have done neighborhoods this big before with one entrance with a wide and more a more wide and more grand entrance coming in and having a second access being emergency access only meaning it's more or less a hidden driveway that that emergency vehicles can use but not everyday traffic uses that's pretty common that we put in a lot of emergency accesses and we could have one access off of cooksbury road and have an emergency access and not a full access off of uh [Music] north north side i'll tell you from my from the impact in the and understanding this area of greenwood pretty well that would be great if you could provide us with that option uh with with considering those options because i i think i think that'll that'll help um with with with some of those issues especially um i mean i know traffic studies were done but um i also went to greenwich high school and i know what it's like there in the morning and i also have left northside church and i know what it's like there after on sundays also so i would that that that one area i'll tell you that that's the one that concerns me and i think um looking into that a lot deeper would be very beneficial to everyone an entire in our entire community i just fyi we originally looked at tying to claremont drive i know there were some concerns about that as well nobody likes to have traffic from another especially a new neighborhood coming through their neighborhood additional traffic coaxbury roads a five-lane uh four-lane road with a uh two-way turn lane uh for for traffic so um i mean that that's probably we will definitely look into that and if there's a means of uh doing uh an emergency access back out to northside drive we will definitely accommodate that it's cheaper for us i mean it's cheaper for us to do that i mean that's a lot of roadway with no homes on it so and if you do that we would just appreciate not add more lights there oh that's right no i mean i wouldn't be able to get lots there anyway i mean it would be it'd just go as common area if it's actually cheaper just to do the one entrance and just have an emergency entrance then could there be my concern is when you do effect you'd want to have as little visual impact to the people that that their backyard actually backs up to you um there's looking at looking at the ones but i would like to see a real burn buffer suit to visually block even though there's natural vegetation so they they can't they can't see your development and so and i like to see that done early on you know not after the houses are built but before the houses are built in order to mitigate the visual impact of someone's backyard did you say that's part of the maybe it could be helpful if uh if we just click through um paul each of the recommendations from staff and then the extra recommendations from council and how you all have addressed those since the last movie okay so can you just kind of tick through that one through eight right there and explain to council um what you all done too so sidewalk on highway 254 uh is that that's the along coaxbury we have uh we have that sidewalk shown uh on our plan so it's hard to see but we're proposing a five foot wide sidewalk along our entire frontage along coaxbury road so right now it would not necessarily lead to anywhere but if future development uh in the future adjacent to this parcel or if the city elects to put in additional sidewalk in the future at least the frontage along our development would have sidewalk so we've addressed that okay and the second item is the 150 foot deceleration lane that that is a common area right yeah yeah um connecting this the trail from lot 69 to lot 114. that that is along the uh that that is along the southern side and we do not have a problem with that we can address that um the fourth one says the amenity center must be completed prior to the completion of phase one and no permits for phase two will be granted until the co for the amenity center is granted that's not a problem specify what playground equipment we provide in the top lot as part of the preliminary land development language you already have that i don't i mean that's kind of out of my i don't i mean i'll have to get that from the client they they purchased that stuff from manufacturers i'm not really sure who they i can get that information okay um and then the note there says there won't be any variance to the five foot setbacks but y'all are very clear on that right yes ma'am okay um hbac units have to be placed in the rear yards yes ma'am okay and then these were the additional items that city council had of concern at their may third work session so the first was a more detailed landscape plan by an architect which i know that you sent to us today um they had concerns about i'm not going to read that word for word but i mean essentially they can chime in they had concerns about what type of plant material would be there at what point in the phasing would the plant material be installed what would the buffer look like and i think if you could address some of that that would help clarify some things for city council yeah well um the site is currently wooded there are some areas that are heavier wooded than others i personally think the best way to address this is with staff with feet on the ground to walk the perimeter of the site and to kind of help help us with you know if i've got an area where you can't even walk through it and it's a pretty good natural buffer 365 days a year i just don't see mowing that down and disturbing that land to go back in and and plant something different well i guess that was the quest because we understood that a large scale clear cutting was most uh economical for y'all so if you're saying that trees that will provide more of a buffer can remain i think that's something to absolutely something we've wanted absolutely what the only thing what we're really going to be concerned about a little bit is like uh non-evergreen trees that you know we really want to use evergreen trees in nature for buffers because they're going to have that foliage all year round and they're going to provide that natural buffer in some areas where the buffer is lacking or we think it's lacking or staff thinks it's lacking i think there's some alternatives that was touched on about providing a berm and it could be a six foot berm uh constructed out of topsoil with plantings on top that provide even a better buffer there's no other better buffer that you can provide other than a a natural berm with evergreen vegetation planted on top of that you're just not going to ge i've done this a long time you're not going to get any better than that i think that i think that that's a lot of what we discussed at our in our last meeting um but i i just we and it appears this is the case because this is a different product than what we saw at our planning meeting um that every effort is is given to be able to provide the natural presentation that already exists and it sounds like that's the case and again npr is that we're we there's accountability that this is once it's once it's put into the document it's in language that that things don't go keep going along unless this plan is followed that's right and so i i know there's there's folks that don't believe the government says they're gonna does what they say they're gonna do all the time but i'm telling you that's that's why this zoning even exists and so that's that's why i'm all for this type of zoning because we still get to keep our hands in into it a little bit so um but i appreciate this this this yes this clarifies a lot i think for me one of the concerns is going from the two entrances down to one now you're pushing more traffic on the coltsbury and with the school being there is that really feasible is it safer you know and that's something we can discuss as to how the d.o.t would would govern that that ingress egress with a traffic control device uh you know i know there are some things that y'all are with with the existing ponds on there your hands are a little tied as to what you could do but i agree it's not easy but i think potentially that eliminates some of the concerns about traffic on northside drive of course yes it would increase obviously the traffic onto coke experience so if if we were to consider this i think it would all be contingent on uh coaxbury being able to sustain that if that's if that's in the plan exactly in reference to the high school is this about this is slightly below the high school by the way slightly below the high school where they come into the parking lot pretty much right that's right i think in a perfect world you would have the entrance to greenwood high just right across the street and it would line up but i understand you have a challenge with the existing pond i mean in an ideal in an ideal world we would line those driveways up and we may even go to dot and look to try to get a traffic see if it see if it gets has traffic signal warrants to where we could install a traffic light there that's that's too close to it's probably too close to the traffic signal at north side so we probably never would get that but we could request that and and and ideally ideally you do want to line up driveways um but with that existing pond directly across the street it's impossible to do right paul can you explain um when the buffering would come in because i know one of the questions that miss hutto had was when you finish phase one are you gonna buffer phase one or will you finish all three phases and then come back in with buffering we number one we have a 25-foot exterior uh setback off of all exterior property lines um i don't envision any clearing or disturbance within that area for any of our site um so if we're coming in and doing phase one or um we would probably clear our area that we need for the entire development up front and we would probably need to buffer if if i know what you're wanting we would need to buffer any lacking areas that um need buffering right from the get-go okay right i just don't know if it's addressed in this document i didn't well you got it for sure a good point to that you know to go out and spend 150 000 or 200 thousand dollars on landscaping in bushes i gotta have irrigation um so that's that's a practical matter that we need to work out and figure out how we can satisfy the buffering but at the same time making sure that we can protect the investment that we're putting in up front these are the other items all that city council asked about and some of them tie back into landscaping and i know your document here outlines it but just for the record there are some locations on the landscape plan that show berms and fencing is that correct uh i think there are and then number three was how would the hoa maintain these buffer areas including a maintenance and irrigation plan so we'll have the hoa will have a set of covenants and restrictions and those covenants and restrictions will dictate who's responsible for what so they will be any new landscaping will have irrigation and they will be maintained by the hoa which generally what happens is the hoa hires a landscaping crew who maintains all the common areas and all the landscaping in common areas entrance monuments whatever um that includes detention ponds and that includes detention ponds as you know detention ponds have to be inspected twice a year and in in there's their specific maintenance requirements for storm water detention ponds do you dig your detention ponds a little bit deeper than you're supposed to based on code or i we don't have any water runoff a lot of water runoff issues i'm just asking is that typically what you're proposing here i mean a lot of the times a lot of the times we we oversize our ponds to maintain above and beyond what the typical requirement is or what the requirement is by code by the municipality i think that's covering all the comments from staff and from council with regard to the uh the hoa course when you start selling these homes a percentage the homeowners start paying towards the hoa so this hoa will be will be funded to in order to do these things as soon as y'all turn it over to the hoa that's correct the developer serves as the hoa for probably the first year until you have enough residents in the community and he funds he has an initial funding to the hoa and basically the way i've always seen it done is that hoa hires a property management group who pretty much manages the grounds the hoa meets there ever president vice president and so on but you got to have enough homeowners to get that up and running so that doesn't happen immediately the owner basically is the hoa for the first year these are some front elevations of the home plans that are going to be placed in there the price range 230 to 275 280 i would say that's a good price range okay so you're looking at minimum square footage around 1800 to about 25 2600 square feet that sounds right okay any other questions from mr harris thank you thank you for your time yes yes staff staff comments you said oh okay thank you is there anyone else that wishes to speak in favor of proposed ordinance number 21-018 all right mr medford mr dover how are y'all are you all a team well we represent well first of all i think nobody wants to see greenwood look as beautiful as the two of us and many of the people that are in this room as we all do i think what i saw for the master plan and everything that's being proposed as long as it meets the community's needs and aesthetics are there and the safety's there that's what matters but on behalf of the industries you know i chair the workforce development initiative and we recently had a round table of all of our major stakeholders and industries and we went through the challenges that we're facing and they're significant we have well over a thousand open positions at all of our various different industries in greenwood today well over a thousand we have businesses that are not able to optimize meeting their business demands because they don't have the staffing to do it we have small businesses like restaurants that every you can't go anywhere without seeing help wanted signs um so that's our task is to tr to try to figure out how we as a community can recruit train and develop our workforce um so one of the things we did was we went around the room and we heard from all of our industries whether they were new existing large small and uh in the top three challenges housing is right there there's just not enough adequate housing to staff up to meet our industry's needs and so when were looking at projects like this there are definitely opportunities and challenges to get it right but we have to figure this out some way or another because we're we're not going to be able to meet what we need to do and this is not recruiting any new industries if we just solve the problems that we already have today with our existing industries it's equivalent of getting two major companies coming in here i mean that's how significant it is and the other op the other thing that this creates is these are not just hourly positions i mean there's a there's definitely a a percentage of those probably 50 percent but the other 50 percent are key positions within these companies that are paying significant salaries in the ranges of fifty thousand to over a hundred thousand dollars per year so when you look at our our our community we are very fortunate to even have a publix here because all of these major businesses retails they have certain uh requirements for average income per capita and a population base and we don't meet many of those but if we were able to just to fill the positions that we already have in greenwood that raises the needle to where we get to a point where we can start being attracted to retailers like target or whatever restaurant you want to choose or other retailers so we need to do this because it's holding us back on many fronts whether it be our existing industries or what the future of our community looks like as far as where we get to go shop and eat i think it's important to note we also had a round table with our food service and hospitality industry because they're being crushed and i would like just to remind everybody and i thank the city for stepping up this saturday we're having a job fair at the uptown market from saturday morning from nine to noon we have about 25 different restaurants already signed up to be there to be recruiting and the the districts 50 51 52 and lander are all promoting it within their student base to come out so that hopefully we can fill some of these industries so that a a restaurant a poor small business restaurant owner that got crushed by kovid who cannot open up his restaurant fully because he doesn't have the staff to do it we're going to start losing businesses if we don't do this so i just that's the point i wanted to make so we thank you for your consideration thank you mr medford thank you jim i said at that round table with mr medford and others and being firsthand experiencing the the impact of a shortage of labor i can tell you and uh concur with with jim that if we don't address this uh these great businesses that are so privileged to operate here and thrive here um may not survive certainly not to their potential if we uh if we don't do something to address infrastructure so we've certainly outgrown our ability to uh staff these very essential businesses travis are you you guys we typically don't ask questions during this time but for caps to jail for lonza sorry alonzo um are you guys not able to hire people because there's nowhere to live is that what you're is that what i just heard that that is one of the major roadblocks to getting good quality people staffed to the levels that we need indeed do you all have any amount of your workforce that chooses to drive from southern greenville county or somewhere here rather than live here because of lack of home inventory options yeah unfortunately yes you know i try to do my best with every new recruit to uh persuade them to live here i've been here personally you know all my life and you know i love this is a great place and just unfortunately some of these folks you know they take a different decision so encouraging them with good housing opportunities i think is one of those essential uh options that we need to be able to provide our people yeah just to break into that to over half the people i work with commute from and at lonza work here but commute either from anderson greenville or augusta those are all those are all the larger paying jobs so i mean that they're salaried they're not really hourly colleagues thank you thank you travis appreciate it is there anyone else that wishes to speak in favor of proposed ordinance number 21-0 let the record reflect there are none and we're going to open it for comments in opposition to proposed ordinance number 21-018 but and i hope you you've been okay looks like we have a volunteer um who has already what we're going to ask is that that uh that you have a representative from each of the neighboring communities if it's druid hills milford manor uh forest hills that that one person speak on their behalf i know mr homey isn't a doesn't live in any of the neighborhoods so i'm happy to hear from him if there's anybody from from aldersgate methodist church here that wishes to speak we certainly will welcome that too as far as in in addition to mr owen any other individual property owners that aren't in neighborhoods so i tell you what why don't we go with miss hancock first you've presumed your your role here if you could make sure you speak into that microphone so everybody can hear can you all hear me well they can hear you here but so you can be heard mere smith and management wilkie most of you in this room know me i'm anne hancock and i'm president of the milford mountain homeowners association what many of you may not know is that i was born down on wales street in 1939 and i've come back home and i've been here 10 years and i live in milford manor and let me tell you that i feel like and i'm a school teacher by profession and i want you to know that i feel like i'm coming before you and you've all made up your mind i want to tell you i have that feeling but i'm still going to say to you those things that i think are very very important i've said earlier to some of you that i'm not naive enough to think that they are not going to develop that property i'm not stupid what i am saying to you and what i've said to everyone from day one is it's not the development it is the number of homes you intend to put in that development it's the density of what you're saying you're going to do you say listen ann traffic's everywhere okay you told me that the developers did a traffic stop now if they did a traffic study they did in 2020 or maybe they did it in 2021 but if they did it they did it at a time when we were not with 3 000 over 3 thousand children in school businesses closed five churches closed four lanes of cokesbury road not having anywhere near the traffic that it has now and it will get to be more you see so i don't buy your traffic study i'm sorry have you read it pardon me have you read the traffic study i have not i have heard i've only heard what i've been told okay i mean my reading of it is that it took that i'd like to see it i want to know when it was done and i invited brandon and julie to join me at 10 minutes after seven on the third day of school when we start school back and sit with me at that intersection northside drive and coax perry road i know i live there i know 63 of those children at pine crest elementary school and they're almost a thousand there they're 989 some of them come by school bus many of them come by parents that bring them to school as brandon says he comes and brings one of his sons to greenwood high school we've got all that traffic right down coaxbury road and they stop in that lane trying to get into the high school to drop people off traffic everywhere anne you say to me i submit to you that the reason you got four lanes on kokesberry road is that you had so much traffic on 25 before i came back to greenwood that you widened coke spare road it is a busy busy four lanes there is a tremendous amount of traffic business traffic by that i mean 18 wheelers that move down that road i have heard what you said to me about affordable housing and about jobs if i'm if i'm not mistaken we've got three major uh division's going right now we've got apartments for the y we've got the homes over there by harris plant we've got milford's pines out here we've got another 120 we've been over here on calhoun road i'm not going to accept affordable housing either and i believe many people in greenwood do live outside of greenwood i believe that i do and i believe you need housing for them but i don't need and i jim f and i may disagree i don't believe that the people that are coming in for big high-tech jobs are going to live in that neighborhood i think they're going to go other places i think that neighborhood of 188 homes two cars minimum maybe more being built in the middle of a community where you have five churches a major highway three thousand children going to school every day three large subdivisions does not make sense to me it's the number of homes that's a problem it's the density of it it's too much in too little space it simply is now the index journal quoted me and said that and i did say this but that was not my that was not my reference at all i said that they were going to build this subdivision and i was concerned about it because it was in my backyard and it is in my backyard but that's not my concern about it i'm saying you can build a subdivision don't build 188 homes in that area of this city in this community it's not a community that can handle that kind well you're going to put all these homes on calhoun road now if you don't think that's going to impact north side driving coke spirit wrong you rode your wrong all of that traffic is coming into one area i'm just saying that to me and that i disagree a little bit with you brandon more of you get to talk than one person and i think that other people should have an opportunity to speak also in a subdivision but that's neither here nor there i'm just saying that all of you get to talk more than one of you has an opinion and there are more more people in milford manor that have an opinion than ann hancock that you have to know but i'm going to leave you and say that i really do not think and i sincerely mean this i really do i love this town i came back to it i've been all over the world as many of you know had a great career but i came home and this is a beautiful beautiful town and community i am saying it is the wrong place i do not think it's practical nor do i think it's safe thank you very much i'll answer your questions let me just ask you what do you think the proper amount of homes would be now you know brendan i'm not a developer but i i mean first of all it's 87 acres right and we got a pond in that so i don't know actually how many acres of dirt we're talking about how much so it's 46 that i understand are nine women so we got 46 acres of land and we're going to put 188 houses in there right so i guess we we hear that it's too much but i don't wh what would you propose instead i mean what what is not too much in your opinion what's not too much right would it surprise you that with on those 46 acres currently right now without doing anything without changing anything they could build 140 homes right now and it'd be in the county they could they could build 140 ohms in there on the 53 percent understand how many are you putting on right before whatever that math comes out to be it's four to naked that's not much of a that's not much of a house but i mean i'm telling that's that's what is currently currently allowable if they were to use the same 53 percent of that the county r1 right so without changing anything without having to go before county council and assuming they use 53 percent of the acres they could put 140 homes on there right now so what we're really talking about is an additional 48 homes and that's if they wanted to use because the wetlands if i'm eyeballing it is about half of the 47 that they're not using so that's conceivably even there could be even more than that i'm just i'm just throwing it out there for perspective did i understand you to say that a half of those 48 acres they're not putting houses on there's 87.5 acres 47 are not going to be developed it's going to be either remain wetlands or be open common space so the other 53 of that 87.5 acres or 46.5 acres that will just set of the 46 acres were you saying that 20-something percent of that was going to be free space no no no anyway i just wanted to make sure everybody understood that it's my understanding that this has never been taken to county council is that true i don't believe it got to county council is there a reason for that you were supposed to i don't know i don't know you could but you're saying to me and if it went to county council they could approve up to 140 homes in there right it wouldn't even have to go to county council they could do it without getting county council's approval so they could go in there and build 140 homes and county council wouldn't say anything but the city would not have the revenue right well get my revenue this is not about revenue but i'm saying that's true we wouldn't right we don't get revenue from this for 10 years pardon me we don't get revenue for this 75 of the revenue for 10 years this is about solving a problem that mr dover and mr medford brought up again which is workforce development this is the proposal again i don't know how the vote's going to come down but well mr medford now would have to sit down and talk about that workforce development a little bit i you know i've been a part of that i think a good bit in this town but uh and a part of it in major areas you know i worked in a community college a long time traveled america a long time so um i know that we need affordable housing i understand that clearly i told you that i understand that but i simply think and i will repeat to you and i do not believe i do not believe that you will find many people who will disagree with me that you're putting too many houses in that area now it may be that you can build them it may be i'll still say the same thing i don't think it is a feasible thing to do for that community i think that that traffic that exit come out on northside drive i think that's going to be a nightmare well we may have alleviated that yeah because i mean it's just it's just a fact that right now we know how busy it is you know so um i i just don't think it's a feasible thing to do i don't think it's safe i think the the school situation now when we are full-fledged and we got four and some kids driving cars into the greenwood high school i just don't think it's feasible thank you very much dr hancock and dr hancock i will i will say we appreciate you being a representative from milford manor if there's anybody else from milford manor that wishes to speak and add anything in in addition to what ms hancock said anything else that miss hancock did not cover please feel free to speak [Music] my name is steve salisbury i live in milford minor also and i agree of course because i'm going to be directly affected by this with everything that miss hancock has said it's there's there's property value problems with this for anybody that lives near here near that proposed development we heard tonight about protecting the integrity of green wood well this this is a high density subdivision in my opinion and it's it's directly surrounded by lower density subdivisions that it does not match up whatsoever with the surrounding subdivisions as far as protecting the integrity of this part of the county uh the traffic to me is a no-brainer doesn't matter what what traffic study is said we don't know if it took into account all these new homes on calhoun or not we know there's quite a bit of congestion in that area especially when all the schools are in session and and the schools are getting out but what i had was a question tonight uh which i understand a little bit about it but i'd like for somebody to answer it i know that because i read on on the city's website that for the city to annex a property it has to be continued contiguous with other uh city crop zone property correct okay so and i guess i saw earlier tonight where um is that the purpose of rezoning this cpw property just with the intent of being at being contiguous with this property because i don't know of any property that was anywhere close to this that was in the city is that correct okay well you know does that match up with the spirit of whatever the law is i mean i went out and i'm not a lawyer but i went out and i looked at south carolina code 5-3-305 and you guys know all this way better than i do but i'm going to ask the question says contiguous property to find says uh for the purposes of this chapter contiguous means property which is adjacent to a municipality and shares a contiguous border contiguity is not established by a road waterway right away easement railroad track marshland or utility line which connects one property to another is this not i mean it looked to me like a utility line that you're annexing or the cpw's property on a utility line how does that it and maybe i'm reading wrong y'all tell me how does that meet that contiguity requirement so the first annexation that was on the agenda tonight was for a 10 foot strip where cpw will have an easement however that property owner requested that that be annexed into the city so it's not an easement it's it's a piece of property that's in the city that cpw has an easement on then when you move across up the other direction those properties were purchased from those property owners by cpw and cpw asked for them to be annexed into the city cbw can use those areas for future utilities if they choose to do so but that's where the contiguous that's a hard word contiguity continuity and i want dr anne to get me contiguity is achieved right well i i just say to me in the spirit of the law what i read here that it should not be used to connect one property to another that's my opinion and i'm just voicing it here tonight thank you and um let's see that's all thank you thank you is there anybody else from milford manor that wishes to speak and cover anything not addressed by the two previous speakers yes sir if you could state your your name and your address roger bly i live in manor went up to hemlock court and i'm i'm not going to get into addressing these aspects of things if you could please speak just so everybody can hear it can you hear me now yes sir i can hear you it's just so that everybody online and everything can hear you i know in this uh hearing that there's been there been a lot of questions by the members of the council and also by the gentleman who's on i believe on the planning commission uh is that enterprises on city council he has a planning commission folks from our planning commission here well there are a couple of issues that seems to me that this is a a serious issue for us in our subdivision and in that area it's an extremely serious matter for traffic and for the schools and for the churches that are right there and for the entrance and exit to this proposed subdivision the gentleman who was speaking said that he agreed that it would be good to line up possibly the the lights and the entrance to the high school with their subdivision but he said they couldn't do that because there was a pond but we've had all this talk about how crucial it is to develop this we've seen uh pictures and things of the subdivision and what's going to be done and you all have asked all kinds of questions about the homeowners association and all these things well number one one my comment is that if this is all so critical uh why not line it up let them pay for a bridge across the lake there's nothing wrong with that uh consider it maybe it's not good uh when you're dealing with the uh with the the state with the the traffic matters i've been involved with some other uh areas where this came up and it seems that the state they are not really interested in saying that there's a huge traffic problem because if they say so and it's one of their major ways such as that road is through and into town they've got to pay for fixing it so the idea that they would have to come in and and put in some kind of a way coming out of greenwood and going across into the high school they would have to pay for say an overpass on the other side they they they wouldn't want to pay for these things so they're not interested the state's not interested in coming up with the idea that there really is a huge serious problem and they'll put up a few lights and hope they can move on now all of these issues have keep coming up and you've raised them about well what about this another one is the the gentleman who's wanting to develop this is saying that yes they'll be responsible for the homeowners association and the dues for about a year and then turn it over to the homeowners and that everything is going to be hunky-dory and fine but then those homeowners they don't have to keep on paying the bill they can vote a different way of handling the issue and then you we saw that happen in all the times when we were having some depression that homeowners associations go broke and then the place really goes downhill and and is in in terrible condition so before you consider and we you're talking about going ahead and making the first reading and approving it and yeah we can come back and we can look at this and we can look at that let's not do that i suggest that you postpone in your hearing tonight until they get all of these issues that you have questions about let them answer it first and then have the first hearing at that point in time that will give us and anybody else who has an interest an opportunity to have time to come up with some questions go to your planning commission and talk to them and get them to help get some answers so my proposal is that you postpone and not accept the first reading on this thing tonight but that you postpone it and have all these people that want to do these things let them come up and answer your questions and and come up let them show you some homeowners association uh the the plan that they're going to use let them show it to you how they're going to do how much are they going to collect in the first year how much are they going to leave you at the end of that first year to cover things so that that's my proposal thank you appreciate it is there anybody else from milford mayor that wants to speak and add something that was not already addressed thank you uh anybody else that wishes to speak in opposition to the proposed let's see i'm gonna try to go in order just to uh i saw mr dominic raise his hand first you can cover anything mr dominic leaves [Music] out good afternoon good evening thank you mr mayor first of all i want to say i wasn't planning on speaking so uh but i must say something number one i concur with what dr hancock was talking about in all her comments i also understand what mr metford was saying and those are the hard decisions that you as a board have to make but what i'm going to share with you is one thought when you think about the quality of personnel the quantity of vehicles that will be going in and out of all of those different streets or one street i want you to think about safety i don't think any of you in this room and i live in cherokee hills has ever anytime between 7 15 in the morning and 8 45 known the traffic volume that is in that area i don't think that any of you have ever been sitting behind your youngest daughter who was in the vehicle in front of you and because of the traffic and or inexperienced driving as there will be at any school pulled out in front of a car and was completely demolished and you had to go in and try to get that child out of a wrecked car and all of that is because of safety what i'm sharing with you is if i heard correctly there's a problem with the quality of red lights if there's a problem with the quantity of red lights and it it at the intersection there at the high school obviously there should be a red light across from forest hills and cherokee hills just to get people out what my point is to you is i think that you should give a considerable amount of decision and thought and prayer on the safety of our children or in most of our cases now our grandchildren that's my thoughts and i concur with what has been said by all of the opposition forces thank you mr dominic appreciate miss luke did you want to add anything else thank you i think you had your hand up next and then jason will get to you if you could state your name and your address for the record hey can you all hear me okay great uh thank you mayor and everybody for having us tonight my name is hayes hudson i'm the vice president of druid hills homeowners association i just want to talk to you on uh tonight about a few items so we're talking about easements and we're talking about buffers between communities and they say 30 feet 25 feet well i don't know about y'all but 30 feet ain't from here to that wall back there i mean that's pretty that's pretty close i feel like the easement needs to be larger the buffer zone should be wider i'm an engineer by trade too and i disagree with some things they've said but uh another thing is the five foot clearance between homes five feet is the offset between homes that you're talking about putting in there that's a pretty pretty close so that's another point a couple of other items i'd like to discuss i agree totally with ann and everybody else who's spoken tonight so i'm not going to reiterate what uh what was said um i want to have a question for the builder uh all the homes will they all be sold meaning that will the homes be sold in mortgages or cash would they be rented out will they be leased because that's very important because when you start talking about having a bunch of homes that get rented and they're not owned i feel like we're going to have some problems with that they're all sold can you confirm that sir okay um who will foot the bill to expand north side drive due to increased traffic is that going to be as a city we will handle that to expand roadways where needed or is the builder taking care of that well as i understand it's not expansion but it's it's there's a turn lane that's in there and that remind me under the look at both of y'all yeah that's our total responsibility [Music] okay so developer so we're saying that we only need one turn lane for that though that's what we're saying but you heard some discussion earlier about how we again attempt to minimize the the very real impact on especially on mr homie uh because he's not going to have the benefit of a 30-foot uh setback but anyway go ahead okay um a couple of other items i'd like to touch on i would like a guarantee in writing and i don't know if we could get that that there will be no entrance going into druid hills i know that was that was positioned at the very beginning of all this and they kind of took it away but it seems like from the drawings there might be some as my understanding is that's not a that's not on the table at all and again that's pursuant to this this mpr it has to be done exactly as they've designed it and there was originally whenever it was first proposed but that's not a a concern that's not an ingress egress at this point okay um is that in writing though or well it's it's silent as to an entrance meaning that there won't be one i mean if there's not one right stated in the intent then there there can't be one okay because right because i'm just concerned that later on down the road we're gonna go and be like oh hey by the way we're putting a driveway into your neighborhood and it's gonna become the cut through for all of greenwood so all right um you know going back and and i'll finish this up pretty quick but you know this has been turned down by county planning commission you know i didn't get a county council i understand that but they turned it down at that initial meeting we then went to a meeting a couple weeks ago and it got turned down by planning at for city did y'all take that into account at all this what the city planning commission recommended um yeah the city planning commission the planning commission is a joint committee right and so the planning commission is joint city and county okay so the commissioners are different than the staff which is planning and zoning staff okay yes so it was voted down nine to two you know so this has been brought up and it's been turned down and here we are again talking about it so i'm i'm a little confused as to why we keep talking about this well the general procedure is first it goes to planning and zoning and the commissioner's photo staff reviews it before the commission reviews it and once the commission reviews it then either depending upon whether you're in live in the city the property is either in the city or in the county it then comes before city or county council because city and county council have the ultimate final say and that's why you know it didn't go to county council right so it wasn't resolved right and so now there's a change of plan so now it comes before us and that's why you're hearing it again okay um i i think we've all kind of been around this and there ain't a whole lot of pros to this i mean we're talking about you know to what we're talking about building is for jobs but i don't know of any people making forty to fifty thousand dollars are going to be buying houses that are two hundred fifty thousand dollars i mean i feel like that's a mute point there's there's three other neighborhoods of greenwood and they bought every single one of them like that for i mean just speaking i know from personal experience emerald farms is completely sold out sold out in less than six months milford pines which is clanking along it's in its last phase sold out immediately i had a resale property in there sold in two less than two weeks i mean the property is fl we have no inventory period it's it's it's ridiculous we have a it's very it's not just for incoming people it's for people here in greenwood there is no housing stock available unfortunately okay um so i'll close on this um i feel like the amount of homes should be less i agree with ann um and you're going to ask me how many well you know half so 100 110 that's what druid hills is or 117 120. you're talking about another 60 houses that's quite a lot so thank you for your time thank you mr hudson anybody else from druid hills that that wants to add anything that mr hudson did not mention all right is there anybody else that wishes to speak in opposition to ordinance number 21-018 yep mr hermie thank you for allowing me to speak um i live at uh 107 northside drive west the property impacts both sides of my uh of my property the um i just want to refer to something as far as the homes i actually agree with nikki on the there is no inventory on homes doing real estate that is actually an issue in greenwood however as far as um not having enough employees i would disagree with them on that um unemployment rate in greenwood's 5.5 percent roughly 3800 people um but addressing the development around the size of my property first and foremost the side of my property is about 15 and 20 feet from the bedroom they're often a 20-foot buffer between my property and the road they have not addressed putting up a wall or fence to control the noise pollution if it doesn't get addre if this does get addressed i would like to ask that it would be with something that would not deteriorate within a few years and that the proposed buffer zone does not or the proposed buffer zone does not show evergreens this means in the winter when the existing foliage what they're proposing to use goes in hibernation there will be very little barrier there's not a lot of evergreens in between the property and i welcome you or him to come out as well as any of you guys to come out and see the property and how it's going to impact it as well i would ask that it's addressed on both sides of the property that are going to be affected much more information on the buffer zone before this gets approved also on the back corner of my property there's a steep grade it's been brought up at both meetings that we had at the planning i don't feel like this has been addressed either they're going to be removing existing trees they will keep some of them but they'll be removing them and it will that are there currently to prevent erosion or slow the erosion so there's got to be something in place that's going to prevent that from happening from that slope that's on the back of the property there's no plan in place to address this which has been brought up at both planning commission meetings traffic on north side drive i know that's been brought up 100 times already it's extremely high i'm going to pass around i just took three pictures i'm just going to pass them around to you guys and show them the traffic goes out well past my driveway which is pretty far from the light in general i know the traffic study was done i don't know that it was done with an impact of the amount of people that are going to fill the patio homes in the apartments on calhoun road i would ask that the road be removed from the plan on cokesbury entrance and an exit be utilized one concern brought to my attention was the having only one entrance and exit with 188 homes on coaxbury currently wellington green has only one entrance in one exit and 214 homes so it's not something that's out of the question um and i just want to pass these around to you guys if you don't mind thank you tell you what y'all make i have to use a register i need a quick break real quick sorry for that is there anybody else that wishes to speak in opposition to proposed ordinance number 21-018 mr martin before mr martin comes up we want to congratulate ben onto great weekends in a row 26th place finish at the byron nelson this weekend and 57 000 payout yeah we're congratulating ben right now all right congratulations on your 68. jim hey um real quick [Music] 140 houses did i not hear it said that if it was have to be if it had to be developed it's all one the project would be dropped did i hear that i can't speak for a developer i don't i don't i thought someone said if it did not go to npr would it be i think i think draper mentioned that was his understanding but i i can't how come do you know there are we the city does the city does offer also some infrastructure reimbursements that that are attractive to developers as well okay um the planning commission did vote on this i heard nine to two or seventy two did did anyone ask the planning commission what reason they voted it down seven to two or nine to two what their concerns were yes as that that question i don't know i mean i think a lot of the same specifics but i think i i think there was a a larger contingent of opposition in front of the planning commission than uh than in pros and and then the the planning commission is is deemed with the job of making the recommendation recommendation to you guys whether it be city or county and then i don't know what good they're doing if they make a recommendation and you know it's it's not you know you don't follow it but i understand you don't have to you're not you're not um you don't have to follow it you can do what you want um yeah and and this the safety of the kids is the main thing that i that concerns me just the safety of the kids um i i think there's a whole lot of traffic out there and there's going to be more wrecks i'll guarantee you there's going to be more wrecks um and if there's a fatality out there i don't know that that's worth developing that land to help supply extra employees to greenwood so i you know that it's a safety issue to me mainly thanks thank you mr martin well we we we got to move on dr hancock well we i need to is there anybody else from forest hills that wishes to speak in opposition to proposed ordinance number 21-018 is there anyone else that wishes to speak in opposition to proposed ordinance number let the right 21-018 there are none and pursuant to a procedure do i hear a motion with regard to ordinance number 21-018 motion to approve ordinance number eight 21-018 four parcels of land totaling approximately 87.52 acres located at claremont drive cooksbury road and northside drive motion by mr pass with the additional stipulations right if there are specific stipulations that you want addressed between first reading and second reading you have to pull them up so i can read them i mean all of those well though you're talking about the ones the same recommendations that we had and i'm sorry i thought that was included in all of this so i believe it is okay i think the question then is are there any additional stipulations other than the six the council had after the work session and are we still up in the air about one entrance or two right that's i mean so those are the stipulations that have to be addressed and answered and added to emotion well i just made the motion who wants to get a second and we'll discuss it i like i would like to make a motion to postpone um this ordinance until we address all the issues that uh that will be forced well we've got one motion on the table right now so before we entertain another motion we need to we need to entertain the first one procedurally okay i mean from a staff level i've been making several notes related to nailing down the specific buffers and walking the site to make sure that we have a clear understanding of what those need to be um looking at the potential of the alignment of the exit the possible possibility of dropping the entrance on northside drive [Music] making sure that the plans don't reflect an entrance into druid hills which they do not um and looking at the deep grade area behind mr holmes property were the things that i wrote down so do i need to restate my motion for clarification i think you can just clarify it based on these things here that i just read into the record if you'd like to do that i'll restate my motion to approve ordinance number 21-018 including the statements um that we need to clarify that we're going to that julie just stated motion by mr bass second second by mr miller any discussion regarding ordinance number 21-018 now we've had a lot with interaction with the speakers in favor and in opposition to but is there anything else that council wishes to discuss and mr miller i think this would be in your ward am i correct that's correct when a second rating for this julie june the 21st well i will state that i can one can we make a an appointment to go walk this property and have these things resolved i mean can we go ahead and do that i i want to see i mean i i'd like to physically take a look with the builder yeah do you want to do that right now or do you want to coordinate that and get it out to you i would like that myself yeah it's on my list to walk the site especially to look at the buffer areas adjacent to these other existing neighborhoods so i will coordinate that with all parties and get that back out to you quickly i would like to vote on this again before i can make another motion i i think you we've got to procedurally uh and and council can instruct me but i believe we've got to if the motion died we would we would consider yours but it's been seconded okay i would like to add again though that under the current county ordinance if uh zoning ordinance if it were to be built the exact same way it's being proposed now with 53 percent of the 87.5 acres used they would be able to put 140 homes on that spot if they were to use even more than that which uh could be done uh except for the wetlands area i would suppose that that number could be even higher than the current 188 which is now down from 227 and under the county uh are warned zoning ordinance there is no requirements for any buffers so i again i think this council in this npr has gone above and beyond and trying to make sure that we we take into account all concerns and when i say all concerns i want to make sure everybody understands we strive to be responsible with our decisions whether the neighbors that may be affected are city residents or county residents you know one other thing i heard mentioned was the five feet between homes we're not asking everybody to go out and buy a home in here we know this development may not be for everyone but there obviously is a market for people who were who want very small lot sizes and little yard maintenance so again it's there's definitely a market for it our fire department has indicated that uh as as has not objected uh to the five feet between homes for uh for or any other public safety officers of our of our city has have objected raising the objections in that regard you want to clarify that it's five feet on each side [Music] that's right 10 10 feet yeah just just to address a couple other things that i know a few of you said as well um i think one was that we never was was assuming that we never or have never driven on coaxbury or north side i grew up in creekside i lived there most of my life my parents still live there my grandmothers lived in cherokee hills for 20 years i'm i went up and down those roads every day for 25 years and now still travel those roads multiple times a week so i understand the traffic um i i've done it a lot um so so just to say that i think it was assumed that we don't or have never uh gone on those roads um and i think that account as i don't want to speak for everybody on council but i assume that they believe the same as me that safety is one of our top priorities public safety is one of our largest priorities as a city when it comes to budget when it comes to what we do and yes d.o.t owns these roads but i think if if this were to happen we are all of the mind that we would want this to be a safe road and that we would work with the ot to make sure that that continues right and my reading of the traffic study is that it obviously that traffic study is aimed at safety as well and that the traffic study my my interpretation of it is that it came back showing essentially a negligible impact on the additional all right we're going to ask for for for quite decorum in here i'm not i'm not we're not going to have a crowd i think we're discussing if and if you can't discuss it we're going to ask you to leave i think one respect everybody in here and ask that you all respect us i think one thing that with that what was assumed too was that the traffic study was done yes it was done in a year where there's less traffic but and and it can be provided to everybody to read as well that it was added at least 10 percent and was done when the property was planned for 237 homes that didn't change so we're still using that traffic study saying that there's going to be traffic for 237 homes still dropping it but it's dropping down to 188 and they took into account uh what has been taken to account across the state with drops and traffic levels for a lot less travel because of covet and we didn't perform the traffic study i hope everybody knows i'm telling you what the traffic study stated and so that's the only expert traffic study we have we don't have a traffic study that shows anything differently so anybody else wish to add anything to discussion all right we're going to take we're going to take a vote all in favor of ordinance number 21-018 with with the stipulations stated in the uh read into the record but miss wilkie miss polls no all right that motion passes by a vote of six to one what do we have up next under public hearing item number four is to consider ordinance number 21-019 amending the city of greenwood's official zoning map by rezoning one parcel of land approximately 79.64 acres located at 1400 florida avenue from general commercial and r3 low density residential to npr master plan residential this is first reading and public hearing phil y'all wanna drapers here if you guys have any questions i tell you what why don't you just kind of walk us through it like you did the first one just the nuts and bolts of it can everybody hear me yes okay you got to get it in there tight i know slam it right in there okay so as julie said this is a property totaling approximately 79.64 acres this would be in wards it is in ward six it was annexed in march um there are three phases with this subdivision they approximate the lot sizes will be approximately seven thousand square feet in phases one and two with larger lots of approximately twenty two thousand square feet um the comprehensive plan denotes this area as industrial development which is a little unique in that industrial development doesn't favor housing however looking at the comprehensive palette plan and looking what's up what's provided in the application there are several homes to the south and west of this proposed development that's also in the top left there's a school there that's maize elementary the area is conducive to building homes and providing a subdivision there which would definitely be a less intense and probably more welcome use to those neighbors than in industrial use um this plan originally was over correct me if i'm the applicant correct me if i'm wrong but over 200 units as well it is now it is now down to 96. there were significant wetland issues that were discovered on the property and the plan was adjusted as mentioned previously those phases there will be 36 phases in lot 1 which julie if there's any way we can skip ahead to the site plan right here phase 1 is down in the lower left corner the smaller lots phase two is up off 225 and then phase three are the larger lots um there towards the bottom of the site plan so as i was saying phase phase one is 36 lots there are 25 phases lots in phase 2 and 34 lots in phase 3. um sewer it's proposed that the phases one and two will be um accessible to sewer phase three will use septic that is what's currently in the plan um setbacks a lot like seven oaks will be 30 feet along the existing existing roadways uh in the front it'll be 15 is proposed to be 15 feet from the interior residential roads five foot size setbacks for a total of 10 between homes and then 25 foot minimum rears in uh it is also proposed in phase three since there are larger lots that would be a ten foot minimum side set back on all sides in like manner where there's a landscape plan was provided with with this application an updated version was provided today at 2 30 again not had a real chance to dive deeply into it we can work through that if council's pleasure is to is to approve the first reading tonight one major question which i believe the applicant can speak to is how phase two will be accessed there's a question on whether or not that can come off of 225 or elementary avenue that needs to be resolved before master plan is approved um all these conditions that staff recommended still need to be addressed we again recommend that have the applicant talk to it as we did in seven oaks and just see those addressed and that councils comments and concerns from the work meeting are addressed as well planning commission did recommend approval of this by a 7-4 vote was the dhec question answered about the septic systems i know with our work session we talked about that that's not allowed if it's available but i didn't know if that was so that was a question post the developer in their response that we got today says that prior to final plat all lots will be appropriately tested for septic evaluation so it's not a definite answer but but that they will be tested prior to to recording so if those that might even be fewer lots if some of the lots don't perk he's you know paul says he can come up and address those things well paul ed draper will you guys also address elementary avenue will you be able to talk about that did you hear anything from the school district so there's a lot of parts to this that we are working to resolve with dot and with district 50 and we don't have complete resolution on the access yet but we're working through it trip is working with me on a few things to help me understand some things on the deed um but dot has said that they cannot have access on 225 this can it's controlled access and that's not an option so the option now is to either connect through the subdivision which i think is not an option because of the wetlands or to figure out how that access ms bowles do you mind muting your your phone until you're ready to speak all right thank you or you could just build a bridge yeah they could build a bridge it would be would be nice paul a bridge um or they can or they can um i think that this what it's going to come down to is working out the access on elementary i think that's what it's going to come down to so so we're working on it there's no resolution at this time but we're hoping to have resolution for you by second reading if you were to choose to approve this on first reading so similar to the last one we could potentially approve it subject to these conditions being met that's correct does anybody have any further questions for draper thank you thanks draper is there anyone that wishes to speak in favor of proposed ordinance number 21-019 mr harrison yes sir good i i don't want to i know it's you guys have been here a long time already i i will answer any specific questions that you have one i do want to talk about that julie touched on as the access off of elementary ave that is definitely controlled access to uh to the bypass d.o.t will not grant any more accesses to that road all those accesses have already been predetermined and have already been put in d.o.t informed us that when that access was put in for the school that that was supposed to be a public access to access the other properties there um so we'll work through that we're working through that with with uh julian with staff so that's not a death nail for the project my client owns this property so some he wants to do something with this property um i can assure you that whatever has to be worked out it's going to be worked out if we do not get some of these issues worked out by next council reading we will request to postpone or until we have satisfied thank you that that those issues we wish you luck in getting some resolution one way or the other any did you have anything i don't have anything else i want to add and unless anyone has any questions does anybody have any questions for mr harrison do you want to tick through these items like we did in the last one or everybody's comfortable will you just state the things that need to be checked off the the items that we need to wait until it gets to the second reading so the so the this is all included in it i think it's the additional item is going to be and i guess mr harrison can you address the septic issue is that what did we forget that the challenge with the septic is that um and this only came up to me recently is that if there is sewer on the site that they won't allow dhec will not allow you to put in a septic system so we just wanted you guys to clarify that with them if there's some um because you know you have septic you have public sewer on the site because you're tying in phases one and two or yeah one and two will they let you put phase three on septic i think you'll need to determine that yeah they will i've done this before dealt many times with dhec elevation wise the reason the reason we're not we don't have the lower section on public sewer either is because we can't we cannot get to the gravity sewer which is uphill of that of that specific portion of the site so elevation wise we could only gravity sewer the upper two parcels or upper two phases and that is why we went with a septic option on the lower half so we have done this before and um d-heck has allowed this many times in the past thank you and so i suppose and jonathan just like you mentioned the i think these are the is it is it go to the next page or just six right here okay so in addition to the i mean the ordinance spells out the staff's recommendations uh and then council's recommendations after the work session hopefully mr harrison you've been presented with these as well um i have and if we need to go through them individually we can but i think if we were to consider this ordinance it would be it would include all this which is included in ordinance 21.019 plus confirmation of the access on elementary avenue or wherever can we talk about one of the items sure in the website prior to this the other i guess the items that came out of from staff the the biggest one on here that i have a concern with is item number one and uh that's basically a a roadway connection to tie the smaller lots on public sewer and make a roadway connection to the larger phase three of the septic lots um we as the developer would prefer to keep those separate now we are providing pedestrian uh connectivity cross access whatever you want to call it between the two communities because we want it to we want kids to have a walkability or our means of walking directly to school without even having to get out on the road so um we do have pedestrian accesses through the two communities but we prefer not to connect those two roads together just because different products different um price points and it's it's a wall more than a uh we can't do it i'm not gonna sit here and tell you that we can't do it it's more of a we would prefer that those two sections two phases not try to connect together that's the only one i have a concern with and i think it states explore the possibility of a roadway i mean the way it reads it's not a it's not an absolute must but i don't know maybe somebody else could interpret it differently i think raising that and getting your response is then we just have to decide whether that's sufficient or not yeah and and i'll just tell one more thing the the reason if we if i add that connection in there i'm going to lose i'm going to lose more lots um we're treading on thin ice right now to make the the deal even pencil out going from what we originally thought we were going to get to um to all the wetlands being on the property so um it was just uh i mean i'd just rather not have that in there and say the plan is what we're presented in front of you i'm okay with the other conditions and that was staff recommendation so i don't know if phil or draper that there was a if that's satisfactory to y'all i think i think the price points in here are going to be low twos um to probably some of the larger septic locks being in two maybe even up into the mid mid twos to high twos okay so so nothing's going to be under 200 000. i i don't think so it's hard to build a house nowadays under i know i know any other questions for mr harrison i have a question is the build out of i know that y'all submitted a lot of documentation and i promise i've read it but it all starts to bleed together is the build-out of both of these subs subdivisions projected at three to five years i believe cokesberry was three to five year build out i know this one's three to five okay so that's your your anticipation is three to five i'll make sure coke's very sick i'm pretty sure yes okay thank you the other thing i noticed in our um the conditions we had that from the last one i don't know who i think it got maybe trish pushed over from the other about developing all the buffalo buffer yards in phase one i'm not so worried about that here as i was for the other property i had a lot of copying and pasting today so that's number two right you know since this doesn't back up to any other developer right i think the the purpose of this one was just a more detailed landscape plan just to see and they've submitted that so so we can conceivably approve this striking number two there i think we all want her eventually but maybe we don't want to necessarily demand it be completed you know at the end of phase one is that fair sure my personal feeling would be if you could just make the motion if that's your intent to have them all addressed we know then that number two you've said is not critically important rather than just saying all of them but number two this is ward 6 right that's correct all right is there anyone else that wishes to speak in favor of ordinance number 21.019 let the record reflect there are none is there anyone that wishes to speak in opposition to ordinance number 21-019 let the record reflect there are none do i hear a motion i think we if someone does make one we need to make sure it's spelled out similar so moved with the additional stipulations to address uh planning staff comments city council comments and most specifically which has already included the access to elementary avenue correct i just want one clarification with the accepted tanks uh situational problem that was uh mentioned would this all be included uh would that be taken care of i didn't see it listed in one through seven emotion has been placed on the table as we said before i'll second that motion it was uh motioned by miss huddle second by mr bass so the discussion portion of it and thank you uh miss albert let me make sure i unders understood your question i may not be the best one to answer it miss bulls no i heard some discussion about deceptive change need to be high and low i just want to make sure that was addressed in those some of the conditions that we were going to address because you know we don't want that to come back later and be a problem right i think i think it will be addressed mr harrison represented that he's dealt with d heck in these situations before if it's not able to be addressed between now and and second reading then obviously mr harrison as he stated earlier would i would assume mr harrison you the same thing would apply for that issue as it would for elementary acts elementary road access it would be postponed tabled whatever it sounds like to me that he feels he has good clarification then that particular phase they're going to allow him to to do the septic system right okay any further discussion regarding ordinance number 21-019 all in favor of ordinance number 21-019 subject to the stipulations miss polls yeah all right that motion carries by a vote of six uh seven to zero you have any comments madam city manager i have no comments here's a bunch of dates coming up uh i would like to encourage everybody to come to the litter pickup on on saturday morning um in miss hutto's war we're going to meet at the united center i might even bring chick-fil-a for everyone there's also the job fair going on at the uptown market that jim medford mentioned the splash pad opens on may the 29th so that's pretty exciting anything in red tiffany needs to know if you're planning to attend there's several things coming up for for captain travis anderson there's a a benefit at the market on june the fifth from noon to five and then there's also a golf tournament um on june the 17th at noon um at par 3 west so i would encourage you to attend that also not on your not on your upcoming event list i would be on vacation june the 5th through the 12th i'm not telling anybody but uh ryan actually is going to conduct that meeting on june the 7th that work session and um oh yeah i'll i'll be um present by phone we ryan's got it yeah ryan's got it so i don't even have to visit him do we still have a joint meeting next week the joint meeting is may the 20th sixth i'm gonna have to call into that too because i'm gonna be out of town so this is next thursday i'm gonna i'm gonna look on my calendar real quick oh i should put that on there okay 26 3 o'clock at the library tiffany do you need us to fill this out if we're going to annual meeting this document i think you do have to fill it out because when you go to register him you're going to need to know all that information so if you want to go to the annual meeting please fill that out and give it give it back to ryan you can't go they didn't give you a form i said you can't go if they didn't give you a form right sorry i don't know that i i have one there's no telling where it is all right any other comments y'all sure i mean we could keep going all right do i hear a motion to adjourn is very eager um we had we actually had a motion by mr mr miller go here a second second miss bowles do you second that yes i do all right all in favor of adjournment motion carries by a vote of seven to zero you