As an expert transcriptionist, I have added the speaker names to the transcript based on the names provided, self-introductions within the dialogue, and the contextual roles of the city officials and planning commission members. [Timestamp] Speaker Name: <Dialogue> [0:24] **President Olson:** ALL RIGHT, GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE. WELCOME TO THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION. TODAY IS MONDAY, JULY 17. MY NAME IS ALISSA OLSON. I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. WE'LL BE POSTING THIS MEETING TO THE CITY'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL. [0:43] **President Olson:** THIS MEETING IS PUBLIC AND SUBJECT TO THE MINNESOTA OPEN MEETING LAW. AT THIS TIME, I'LL ASK THE CLERK TO CALL THE ROLL. **Clerk:** COMMISSIONER EMERICK WILL BE ABSENT THIS EVENING. COMMISSIONER ALPER. [0:58] **Commissioner Alper:** PRESENT. **Clerk:** BAXLEY. **Commissioner Baxley:** HERE. **Clerk:** CAMPBELL. **Commissioner Campbell:** HERE. **Clerk:** CONLEY. **Commissioner Conley:** PRESENT. **Clerk:** FORD. **Commissioner Ford:** HERE. [1:14] **Clerk:** KOSKI. **Commissioner Koski:** PRESENT. **Clerk:** MARWAH. ABSENT. MEYER. **Commissioner Meyer:** HERE. **Clerk:** CHAIR OLSON. **President Olson:** HERE. **Clerk:** THAT'S EVERYONE, RIGHT? WE GOT EIGHT MEMBERS PRESENT. [1:29] **President Olson:** WE HAVE A QUORUM. I KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF YOU IN THE ROOM. WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO IS ORGANIZE OUR AGENDA SO WE KNOW WHICH ITEMS WILL BE ON CONSENT AND DISCUSSION. ONCE WE HAVE THAT AND YOU KNOW IF YOUR ITEM IS GOING TO BE DISCUSSED OR NOT, IF YOU'D LIKE TO, THERE IS A ROOM ACROSS THE HALL THAT IS BROADCASTING WHAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN HERE AND YOU CAN WAIT THERE UNTIL YOUR ITEM COMES UP SO YOU CAN HAVE A SEAT. [1:55] **President Olson:** IT WILL PROBABLY BE MORE COMFORTABLE. I'LL LET YOU KNOW WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT. NEXT WE'LL PROCEED TO THE AGENDA, A COPY OF WHICH IS POSTED FOR PUBLIC ACCESS TO THE CITY'S LEGISLATIVE INFORMATION MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, AVAILABLE AT LIMS.MINNEAPOLISMN.GOV. [2:18] **President Olson:** WE'LL BEGIN WITH ACCEPTANCE OF THE MINUTES FROM JUNE 26, 2023. CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES? WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. **Commissioners:** AYE. [2:33] **President Olson:** OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? ALL RIGHT, THAT MOTION PASSES AND THE MINUTES ARE ADOPTED. OUR NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS IS TO ORGANIZE THE PUBLIC HEARING AGENDA. I'LL READ THROUGH THE AGENDA NUMBERS AND ADDRESSES AND STATE WHETHER THEY'RE SLATED FOR CONSENT, CONTINUANCE, RETURN OR DISCUSSION. [2:56] **President Olson:** CONSENT ITEMS WILL BE PASSED WITHOUT DISCUSSION BY THE BOARD AND WE'LL BE ADOPTING STAFF RECOMMENDATION FOR THOSE ITEMS. IF YOU AGREE WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING. AND THE COMMISSION WILL PASS IT AS RECOMMENDED. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOLLOWING THAT DECISION, YOU CAN CHECK WITH THE STAFF PERSON ASSIGNED TO THE PROJECT. [3:17] **President Olson:** IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, YOU CAN RAISE YOUR HAND AND LET ME KNOW AND WE'LL PUT THAT ITEM ON OUR DISCUSSION AGENDA. EVERYONE WILL BE GIVEN TWO MINUTES TO SPEAK. THERE WILL BE A TIMER HERE THAT COUNTS DOWN SO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH TIME YOU HAVE LEFT, BUT THAT WAY. [3:49] **President Olson:** ITEM 4 IS 2730 THROUGH 2740 FIRST AVENUE SOUTH, THE SIMPSON HOUSING SERVICES PROJECT. AND THIS ITEM IS ON OUR CONSENT AGENDA AND WILL NOT HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. ITEM FIVE, LAND SALES. [4:05] **President Olson:** MINNEAPOLIS HOMES FINANCING PROGRAM, THIS ITEM IS ALSO ON UNDER CONSENT AND WILL NOT HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. ITEM SIX IS 2648 MARSHALL STREET NORTHEAST. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THIS ITEM FOR CONSENT. IS THERE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST STAFF RECOMMENDATION ON ITEM NUMBER SIX? [4:25] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** PRESIDENT OLSON. [4:28] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** WE ACTUALLY HAVE A LAST MINUTE CONTINUANCE RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS ITEM DUE TO THE IDENTIFICATION OF AN ADDITIONAL APPLICATION. THERE MAY BE PEOPLE HERE TO SPEAK, BUT THE RECOMMENDATION IS A ONE CYCLE CONTINUANCE TO THE JULY 31 MEETING. [4:43] **President Olson:** ITEM SIX ON JULY 31. WE'LL HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING FOR ITEMS THAT ARE CONTINUED. IF YOU CAME TO SPEAK ON THEM TODAY, YOU CAN MAKE YOUR COMMENTS TODAY FOR THE FUTURE. ITEM SEVEN IS 2600 26TH STREET EAST AND STAFF RECOMMENDS FOR CONSENT. IS THERE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST STAFF RECOMMENDATION ON ITEM SEVEN? [5:20] **President Olson:** SEEING NONE, WE'LL PUT ITEM SEVEN ON CONSENT ITEM 8 IS 301/7 AVENUE NORTH,; 615 THIRD STREET NORTH AND 300 SIXTH AVENUE NORTH. WE'LL PUT IT ON CONSENT. ITEM NINE IS 2110 THROUGH 1214 23RD AVENUE NORTH. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THIS ITEM FOR CONSENT. IS THERE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST STAFF RECOMMENDATION ON ITEM NINE? [6:00] **President Olson:** SEEING NONE, WE'LL PUT ITEM NINE ON CONSENT. ITEM TEN IS 2431 CHICAGO AVENUE. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THIS ITEM FOR CONSENT. IS THERE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST STAFF RECOMMENDATION FOR ITEM NUMBER TEN? OKAY, WE'LL PUT IT ON OUR DISCUSSION AGENDA. [6:20] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** THE STAFF REPORT ON THAT ONE IS ACTUALLY RECOMMENDING A CONTINUANCE AS WELL TO THE JULY 31 -- WE'RE RETURNING THAT APPLICATION AND WILL BE ON THE AGENDA JULY 31. [6:39] **President Olson:** I WONDER IF MY NUMBERS ARE OFF. ITEM TEN WILL BE RETURNED. [6:45] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** THAT IS CORRECT. IT WAS WITHDRAWN BY THE APPLICANT. [6:49] **President Olson:** OKAY. WELL OKAY. ITEM 11, 1213 FRANKLIN AVENUE EAST. STAFF RECOMMENDS FOR CONSENT. IS THERE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST STAFF RECOMMENDATION ON ITEM 11? OKAY, WE'LL PUT ITEM 11 ON OUR DISCUSSION AGENDA. ITEM 12, 3016 THROUGH 3024 FREMONT AVENUE SOUTH. [7:15] **President Olson:** THIS IS THE FREMONT AVENUE APARTMENTS PROJECT. STAFF RECOMMENDS FOR CONSENT. IS THERE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST -- OKAY, WE'LL PUT ITEM 12 ON OUR DISCUSSION? ITEM 13 IS 190149TH AVENUE NORTH. THIS ITEM WILL BE CONTINUED TO SEPTEMBER 5. [7:32] **President Olson:** ITEM 14, AMENDMENT TITLE 20, SITE PLAN REVIEW STANDARDS, WE WILL DISCUSS ITEM 14 AND ITEM 15 IS 1860 28TH STREET EAST, 2717 LONGFELLOW AVENUE AND 1901 26TH STREET EAST, AKA THE HIAWATHA MAINTENANCE FACILITY. IT WILL BE CONTINUED TO THE SEPTEMBER 18 MEETING. WE ALREADY HAD A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THIS ITEM ON MAY 8. [8:06] **President Olson:** SO TO REVIEW WE HAVE ITEMS FOUR, FIVE, 7, 8 AND 9 ON CONSENT. AND WE HAVE ITEMS 11, 12 AND 14 ON DISCUSSION. ITEM TEN IS BEING RETURNED. AND ITEMS 6, 13 AND 15 ON OUR CONTINUANCE AGENDA. COULD I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA AS AMENDED. [8:41] **Commissioner Alper:** SO MOVED. **Commissioner Conley:** SECOND. **President Olson:** I SEE A MOTION AND SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. OPPOSED? [8:57] **President Olson:** ANY ABSTENTIONS? ALL RIGHT, THAT MOTION PASSES AND THE AGENDA HAS BEEN APPROVED. NEXT WE'LL PROCEED TO OUR CONSENT AGENDA. IF THERE IS ANYONE HERE ON ANY OF THE DISCUSSION ITEMS WHO WOULD LIKE TO GO TAKE A SEAT IN THE OTHER ROOM, YOU'RE WELCOME TO NOW. [9:13] **President Olson:** YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE AND HEAR US THERE, BUT WE'LL DO THEM IN ORDER. IT WILL BE 11, 12 AND THEN 14. ALL RIGHT. SO OUR CONSENT AGENDA -- WE'LL MOVE ON TO THAT NEXT WE ARE GOING TO VOTE ON THE CONSENT ITEM THAT IS DON'T HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING AND AFTER THAT WE'LL OPEN A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING CONSENT ITEMS. [9:43] **President Olson:** CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO ADOPT ITEMS 4 AND 5 ON CONSENT? WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? [10:01] **President Olson:** ALL RIGHT. THAT MOTION PASSES. NEXT WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR OUR CONSENT ITEMS AND THE RETURN ITEM NUMBER TEN. SO IF YOU ARE HERE AND WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON ITEMS 7, 8, 9 OR 10, YOU CAN COME TO THE PODIUM NOW, STATE YOUR NAME AND NEIGHBORHOOD FOR THE RECORD AND PROCEED WITH YOUR COMMENTS. [10:23] **President Olson:** ALL RIGHT, I'M NOT SEEING ANYONE, SO I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA. CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO ADOPT ITEM 7, 8, 9 AND RETURN ITEM 10? [10:43] **Commissioner Baxley:** SO MOVED. **Commissioner Campbell:** SECOND. **President Olson:** WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE? OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? THAT MOTION PASSES. [10:58] **President Olson:** IF YOU WERE HERE FOR ITEMS 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 OR 10, THOSE ITEMS ARE COMPLETE. HAVE A NICE EVENING. ALL RIGHT, WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR CONTINUANCE AGENDA. SO THESE ARE ITEMS 6, 13 AND 15. [11:15] **President Olson:** ITEM SIX WILL BE CONTINUED TO JULY 31. ITEM 13 WILL BE CONTINUED TO SEPTEMBER 5 AND ITEM 15 WILL BE CONTINUED TO SEPTEMBER 18. HOWEVER, IF YOU WERE HERE TO SPEAK ON ONE OF THESE ITEMS, AND WOULD LIKE TO, YOU CAN COME TO THE PODIUM NOW. STATE YOUR NAME AND NEIGHBORHOOD FOR THE RECORD AND PROCEED WITH YOUR COMMENTS. [11:35] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** PRESIDENT OLSON, JUST A REMINDER THAT THE PUBLIC HEARING ON ITEM 15 HAS BEEN OPENED AND CLOSED ALREADY. **President Olson:** YEAH. **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** SO IT WOULD BE 6 AND 13 PUBLIC HEARING TODAY. [11:51] **President Olson:** 6 OR 13. CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE CONTINUANCE AGENDA? ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? THAT MOTION PASSES. [12:24] **President Olson:** ON TO OUR DISCUSSION AGENDA, WE'LL START WITH ITEM NUMBER 11, 1213 FRANKLIN AVENUE EAST AND STAFF IS AARON HANAUER. [12:49] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** SO FOR THE [INDISCERNIBLE] WITH 83 UNITS, 43,000 SQUARE FEET OF CLINIC SPACE AT 1213 FRANKLIN AVENUE EAST. THIS PROJECT HAS 81 -- IS PROPOSED TO HAVE 81 ENCLOSED PARKING SPACES AND 83 SURFACE PARKING SPACES. [13:08] **President Olson:** HOLD ON ONE SECOND. WOULD SOMEONE MIND GOING IN THE HALL AND SEEING IF PEOPLE -- KIND OF A LITTLE HARD TO HEAR. THANK YOU. [13:34] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** THE PROJECT SITE IS ALONG THE FRANKLIN AVENUE GOOD AND SERVICES CORRIDOR. AND CURRENT SITE CONDITIONS, WE HAVE A ONE STORY BUILDING SETBACK FROM FRANKLIN AVENUE ALONG 21ST STREET HERE. AND AGAIN, HERE IS THE DEVELOPMENT. POSITIVES THAT STAFF SEES FOR THIS PROJECT: MORE ACTIVITY IN THE AREA, MORE PEOPLE, MORE EYES ON THE STREET, MORE FAMILY HOUSING, AN UPDATED PLAZA ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE PROJECT SITE. [14:11] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** ENHANCED PEDESTRIAN NORTH-SOUTH CONNECTIONS FROM FRANKLIN TO 21ST. AND ALSO, WE APPRECIATE THE APPLICANT ENSURING THE CLINIC STAYS OPEN UNTIL THE NEW PROJECT IS COMPLETED. WE APPRECIATE THAT. THAT IS ANOTHER COMPLEXITY OF THE PROJECT. AND THEN ALSO, A LARGE 1100 SQUARE FOOT OUTDOOR AREA FOR CHILDREN, KIDS ON THE THIRD FLOOR OF THE BUILDING. [14:27] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** THE DEVELOPMENT REQUIRES A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE PLANNING DEVELOPMENT, SITE PLAN REVIEW, PRELIMINARY PLAT PROPOSING. [15:04] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** SO STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF ALL THE APPLICATIONS INCLUDING THE PEDESTRIAN ORIENTED OVERLAY DISTRICT VARIANCE TO EXCEED THE PARKING WIDTH IN A PO DISTRICT. STAFF SEES THERE IS PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES THAT EXIST WITH THE PROJECT SITE THAT LIMIT PLACEMENT OF WHERE YOU COULD PUT PARKING. [15:23] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** THAT LARGE THROUGH-LOT, THE FRONTAGE ON FRANKLIN AVENUE AND 21ST STREET, BOTH THOSE STREETS. ALSO ENCUMBRANCES ON THE SITE. YOU KNOW, THERE IS THE EXISTING PLAZA ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE PROJECT SITE. THAT IS AN AMENITY FOR THE AREA. THE APPLICANT IS LOOKING TO ENHANCE THAT. THERE IS A NUMBER OF CROSS ACCESS EASEMENTS TO THE OTHER PARCELS THAT LIMIT WHERE PARKING COULD BE PLACED. [16:01] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** SO FOR THOSE REASONS, STAFF IS -- SEES THAT THERE ARE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES FOR THIS SITE THAT ALLOW FOR SUPPORTING THE VARIANCE. WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT THE APPLICANT IS USING THE PROJECT SITE IN A REASONABLE MANNER, KEEPING THE SPIRIT AND INTENT OF THE ORDINANCE. WE KNOW THAT THE PURPOSE OF THE PO DISTRICT IS TO PRESERVE AND ENCOURAGE PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY AND PROHIBIT HIGH IMPACT AUTO ORIENTED USES. [16:20] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** JUST NOTE SOME OF THE THINGS I HIGHLIGHTED IN THE REPORT, THE APPLICANT IS REDUCING SURFACE PARKING FROM 99 SPACES TO 83. REDUCING SURFACE PARKING AREA TO 78% OF WHAT IT IS TODAY. ADD MORE PEDESTRIAN AND PEOPLE ACTIVITY WITH MIXED USE BUILDING. [16:38] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** SUPPORTING GOOD AND SERVICES CORRIDOR BY BRINGING THE BUILDING TO FRANKLIN AVENUE AND ADDING LANDSCAPING, WHICH IS SHOWN ON THE SITE PLAN ALONG 21ST STREET. SO BEFORE I CONCLUDE -- I HAD SOME GOOD CONVERSATION WITH PEOPLE FROM THE COMMUNITY AND LETTERS CAME IN. [16:59] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** JUST COORDINATION WITH PUBLIC WORKS, WITH PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT REVIEW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PUBLIC WORKS AND CPED, OUR TEAM DO TALK AND COORDINATE FROM THE BEGINNINGS OF A PROJECT TO WHEN IT GETS TO YOU TODAY. SO WE HAVE -- WE HAD THE PDR REPORT. [17:15] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** YOU GOT SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT COME IN PARTICULAR FROM PUBLIC WORKS ABOUT ACCESS AND SAFETY, GETTING TO THE SITE. AND WE JUST REST ASSURED THAT THEY HAVE REVIEWED THESE PLANS -- ALSO, THEY LIKELY REVIEWED THIS PROJECT IN MORE DETAIL BECAUSE OF A SIGNAL THAT IS BEING REDONE AT THE CORNER OF FRANKLIN AVENUE. [17:36] **Aaron Hanauer (Staff):** SO THE APPLICANT HAS COMMENTS THAT THEY NEED TO ADDRESS IN THE UPDATED PDR REPORT, BUT THAT WOULD COME AFTER TODAY'S PUBLIC HEARING. SO I JUST WANTED TO NOTE THAT. I'M HERE TO ANSWER ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. [17:53] **President Olson:** THANK YOU, AARON. COMMISSIONERS, ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? ALL RIGHT, I'M NOT SEEING ANY. THANK YOU. I WILL NOW OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THIS ITEM. IS THE APPLICANT HERE AND WOULD THEY LIKE TO COME UP AND SPEAK? YEAH, PLEASE, YOU CAN COME TO THE PODIUM, STATE YOUR NAME AND NEIGHBORHOOD AND PROCEED WITH YOUR COMMENTS. [18:33] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** YEAH, GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSION MEMBERS. MY NAME IS DR. STATELY, I'M THE EXECUTIVE OFFICER AND PRESIDENT OF THE NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITY CLINIC (NACC) WHO IS ONE OF THE APPLICANTS FOR THE PROJECT. I WANTED TO SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT THE PROJECT AND SIGNIFICANCE OF IT AND IMPORTANCE OF IT. [18:57] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** AND JUST REALLY BRIEFLY HELP YOU UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF THE PROPOSED PROJECT IS TO EXPAND THE FOOTPRINT OF THE CLINIC, WHICH IS IN CRITICAL NEED OF EXPANSION AND UPGRADE. OUR CURRENT BUILDING WAS BUILT IN 1982. IT IS A BUILDING THAT IS BASICALLY KIND OF CRUMBLING DOWN AND FALLING DOWN AROUND US. WE HAVE POURED LOTS OF MONEY INTO RENOVATING THAT PROPERTY. [19:31] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** WE PURCHASED THE PROPERTY A YEAR AND A HALF AGO AND AS WE STARTED TO DESIGN UPGRADES TO THAT BUILDING AND RENOVATIONS TO THAT BUILDING, IT WAS REALLY CLEAR WE NEEDED MORE SPACE BECAUSE WE COULDN'T BRING ALL THE PROGRAMS WE CURRENTLY OPERATE IN SOUTH MINNEAPOLIS UNDER ONE ROOF, WHICH IS THE POINT TO HAVING AN INTEGRATED CLINIC MODEL. [19:57] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** AND THEN WE ALSO -- ONCE WE DECIDED WE WERE GOING TO BUILD A NEW BUILDING, IT BECAME KIND OF A MORAL IMPERATIVE TO US AS AN ORGANIZATION THAT SERVES THE NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITY IN SOUTH MINNEAPOLIS, SPECIFICALLY, BUT ACROSS THE TWIN CITIES, THAT GIVEN THE FACT THAT NATIVE AMERICANS REPRESENT ABOUT A THIRD OF THE HOUSELESS POPULATION IN THE STATE, WE HAD A MORAL IMPERATIVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT. [20:13] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** IT HAPPENS TO BE THE PRIMARY SPECIFIC -- THE HIGHEST AND LARGEST SOCIAL DETERMINANT OF HEALTH THAT CONTRIBUTES TO POOR HEALTH OUTCOMES AND POOR DISPARITIES FOR NATIVE PEOPLE. IT WAS A SLAM DUNK FOR US TO THINK ABOUT BUILDING HOUSING ON TOP OF THE CLINIC. THE HOUSING IS A PARTNERSHIP -- THE CLINIC AND HOUSING CAMPUS IS A PARTNERSHIP WHO HAS A LONG AND STELLAR TRACK RECORD OF BUILDING MIXED USE COMMERCIAL HOUSING AND SPACES. [20:31] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** WE'LL PART WITH AVIVO, A LARGE HOUSING SUPPORTIVE HOUSING PROVIDER IN THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS AND HENNEPIN COUNTY. AND THE GOAL IS TO PROVIDE STABLE HOUSING TO NATIVE PEOPLE THAT THE CLINIC SERVES ACROSS THE TWIN CITIES AND TO BE ABLE TO UPGRADE -- TEN EXAM ROOMS, TO 18 EXAM ROOMS. [21:13] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** TREATMENT SERVICES ON SITE. WE'RE HOPING TO BREAK GROUND IN A YEAR. WE'RE CLOSE TO HAVING OUR PROJECT FULLY FUNDED SO WE'RE ON A GOOD TRAJECTORY TO GET THAT ACCOMPLISHED AND TRYING TO DO OUR BEST TO SERVE THE CITIZENS OF MINNEAPOLIS, AND SPECIFICALLY THOSE OF SOUTH MINNEAPOLIS. [21:31] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. COMMISSIONERS, ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? COMMISSIONER CONLEY. [21:40] **Commissioner Conley:** THANK YOU, AND JUST REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROJECT, SPECIFICALLY. THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE IS WILL MARIA'S STILL BE THERE? [21:48] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** YES. [21:50] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** WE ARE WORKING HARD TO SAVE MARIA'S BECAUSE WE LOVE MARIA'S. WHO DOESN'T LOVE MARIA'S? [21:54] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. I'M NOT SEEING ANYMORE QUESTIONS. SO WE'LL MOVE ON. WE'LL BE -- LIKE I SAID, WE'LL BE LIMITING COMMENTS TO TWO MINUTES. IT WILL BE ON THE TIMER. AND IF YOU WANT TO SUBMIT MORE COMMENTS THAN THAT, YOU CAN SUBMIT BY E-MAIL TO COUNCILCOMMENTS@MINNEAPOLISMN.GOV. IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? IF SO COME TO THE PODIUM AND STATE YOUR NAME AND NEIGHBORHOOD FOR THE RECORD AND PROCEED WITH YOUR COMMENTS. [22:40] **Ray Peterson (Public Speaker):** MY NAME IS RAY PETERSON AND I LIVE ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE DEVELOPMENT. MYSELF AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD ARE OPPOSING THIS PROJECT. WE SUPPORT THE CLINIC EXPANSION, BUT WE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE HOUSING, THE DENSITY AND PUTTING THIS MANY PEOPLE ON A SITE THAT IS BASICALLY SURROUNDED BY A PARKING LOT AND BUSY STREETS, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN. [23:03] **Ray Peterson (Public Speaker):** I THINK THERE ARE THREE FINDINGS THAT NEED TO BE MADE FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO BE GRANTED THAT WE QUESTIONED IF THEY ARE MET. THE ONE ESTABLISHING MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION OF THE CONDITIONAL USE WILL NOT BE DETRIMENTAL TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH. THE SECOND ONE, CONDITIONAL USE WILL NOT BE INJURIOUS -- SAFE AND EFFECTIVE INTERFACE OF PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. [23:49] **Ray Peterson (Public Speaker):** MAIN CONCERNS HERE ARE THAT THERE IS AN ENTRANCE/EXIT PROPOSED FOR EAST 23RD. IT'S VERY SAFE NOW. THIS WOULD INTRODUCE A LOT OF NEW TRAFFIC WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT. WE DON'T THINK THERE IS ENOUGH INFORMATION THAT'S BEEN MADE AVAILABLE TO STUDY THAT IN ORDER TO SAY THAT THESE FINDINGS CAN BE MADE. THE SECOND MAJOR ONE IS WE ASK FOR MANAGEMENT PLANS SO THAT HOUSING IS MANAGED. [24:13] **Ray Peterson (Public Speaker):** SO WE KNEW IT WAS BEING DONE CORRECTLY SO IT WOULDN'T BE NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE RESIDENTS. WE'D LIKE TO SEE THAT BEFORE ANY FINDINGS ARE MADE. THANK YOU. [24:28] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? YOU CAN STEP UP? [24:46] **Mary Ellen (Public Speaker):** THIS IS MY FIRST COMMITTEE MEETING. MY NAME IS MARY ELLEN AND I LIVE NEAR THE PROJECT. JUST A HALF BLOCK AWAY. I HAVE OWNED MY HOUSE FOR 44 YEARS. HAVE 50 YEARS WITHIN A BLOCK OF FRANKLIN AVENUE. I'M ON 12TH AVENUE BETWEEN 21ST AND 22ND. [25:03] **Mary Ellen (Public Speaker):** IT IS A ONE BLOCK LONG, ONE WAY STREET, VERY NARROW. WHEN I FIRST MOVED THERE IF SOMEBODY DROVE DOWN THAT STREET I CAME TO SEE WHO WAS VISITING ME. NOW IT IS CONSTANT TRAFFIC, TWO WAY TRAFFIC. WE'RE SO OVERBURDENED WITH TRAFFIC IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD THAT I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE THAT -- ROUTING ALL THAT TRAFFIC TO 21ST STREET. IT'S WHERE I CHOOSE TO RIDE MY BIKE AND LIKE WAS SAID, IT IS QUIET, IT IS CALM, IT FEELS SAFE TO RIDE A BIKE BUT WITH ALL THAT -- AND SCHOOL BUS STOPS ON 21ST STREET. [25:52] **Mary Ellen (Public Speaker):** THE NARROW STREET. SEMIS STILL PARK ON IT SO IT CAN BE EVEN MORE NARROW. I THINK THE BURDEN OF TRAFFIC IS TOO GREAT FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE ALREADY HAVE SUCH A GREAT BURDEN. THE 24TH STREET MALL, THE TRAFFIC SPREADS FOR BLOCKS. MY TIME IS RUNNING OUT. I'M CONCERNED BECAUSE I HAVE THE BIGGEST LOT ON THAT BLOCK BECAUSE BACK IN THE LATE 70s THE CITY WANTED TO GET THOSE TWO LOTS TOGETHER AND I TURNED ONE INTO A BEAUTIFUL GARDEN. [26:32] **Mary Ellen (Public Speaker):** THAT MEANS WITH MY LARGER LOT I PAY MORE FOR PUBLIC -- FOR STREET REPAIR THAN ANYONE ELSE AND I DRIVE THE LEAST AND I'M PICKING UP ALL THE GARBAGE, TOO. THANK YOU. [26:42] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? YOU GUYS CAN JUST KEEP GOING. [26:51] **Public Speaker:** I'M A HOMEOWNER IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. I HAVE LIVED THERE 40 YEARS. AND THE MANY DEVELOPMENTS ON FRANKLIN AVENUE THAT HAVE MADE IT INTO A MORE POSITIVE PLACE HAVE ALWAYS FACED AND FOCUSED ON FRANKLIN AVENUE. THIS PROJECT, I THINK IS GOING TO CREATE PROBLEMS. AND THAT'S MY MAIN OBJECTION. AND ALSO BIG OBJECTION IS JUST THE DENSITY OF A SIX-STORY BUILDING. [28:02] **Public Speaker:** HI, I HAVE LIVED IN VENTURA VILLAGE FOR 21 YEARS. I LIVE A BLOCK-AND-A-HALF WEST OF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT. I THINK YOU'LL BE HARD PRESSED TO FIND ANYONE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IS AGAINST THE EXPANSION OF THE CLINIC. IT IS A GREAT RESOURCE. THE VIDEO ON THEIR SITE SAYS THEY ARE IN THE RIGHT SPOT FOR WHAT THEY DO. WE DO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE FIVE STORIES ON TOP OF THAT AGAIN, LOOKING AT THE PLANS, THE MAIN ENTRANCE EXIT WILL BE ON TO 21ST STREET EAST. [28:55] **Public Speaker:** I LIVE OFF 21ST STREET EAST. THERE IS NO TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT ANYMORE. AND THAT'S BECOME A BIT OF A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE DRIVING AND DRIVING UNSAFELY ON THERE. SAME THING WITH 10TH AVENUE SOUTH AND 11TH AVENUE SOUTH. AND ON JUNE 6 I WAS -- THERE WAS A PUBLIC MEETING ON TRAFFIC CALMING PROJECTS AND I WENT TO THAT JUNE 6 AND SPOKE WITH CITY ENGINEER THAT WAS WORKING ON TRAFFIC CALMING IN THAT AREA AND THAT STRETCH OF 21ST STREET EAST BETWEEN CHICAGO AND BLOOMINGTON WAS ON -- THEY HAD THAT HIGHLIGHTED WITH TENTH AND 11TH AS BEING A PROBLEMATIC AREA FOR TRAFFIC SAFETY ISSUES THAT THEY WERE PLANNING TO DO STUDIES ON. [29:43] **Public Speaker:** I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT IS AT AT THIS POINT. LOOKING AT THESE PLANS, I DON'T KNOW THAT WAS TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT THERE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A STUDY ON THAT STRETCH -- OF THE STREET AT THIS POINT. SECOND ITEM I WANTED TO ADDRESS, BUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS A MASTER PLAN AND I KNOW THE CITY DOESN'T TAKE THESE INTO ACCOUNT ANYMORE. LOOKING AT THIS LAND USE APPLICATION SUMMARY, DISAPPOINTING THE SEE THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD MASTER PLAN WASN'T TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT, THE FOUR-STORY CAP ON BUILDINGS. THE NEIGHBORHOOD MASTER PLAN WAS PUT IN PLACE BY PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE. SO LITTLE DISAPPOINTED THAT WASN'T TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. THANK YOU. [30:25] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? [30:34] **Ben Marker (Public Speaker):** MY NAME IS BEN MARKER. WE'RE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS. I LIVED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TEN YEARS NOW. AND THE TRAFFIC -- I'M NOT -- I MOSTLY DISAGREE WITH HER, BUT THOSE ARE REALLY CUTE PICTURES OF THE DAYTIME OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. I WORK NIGHTS. I'M A BARTENDER AND I COME HOME AT 2:00, 3:00 IN THE MORNING. THERE IS NO PATROLS ANY LONGER IN MINNEAPOLIS. POLICE IS 40% -- AND OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS DANGEROUS. AS A NIGHT WALKER, I CAN ATTEST TO THE FACT THAT WE'RE ON OUR OWN. [31:14] **Ben Marker (Public Speaker):** I'M A PERSON IN RECOVERY SO I'M SENSITIVE TO PROVIDING RECOVERY OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE BUT THIS IS A HOT BED FOR DRUG DEALING, DRUG USAGE, PROSTITUTION, ET CETERA. GARBAGE FILTH BLAH BLAH BLAH. I LIVE AND BREATHE ON THE WEST BANK. SO I LIKE TO GET WEIRD, MAN. BUT IT'S A SKETCHY NEIGHBORHOOD AND AND INCREASE IN THIS KIND OF TRAFFIC IS A LOT ABOVE DAYS IN A VERY HOT SPOT. [31:49] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? [31:54] **Sam Strong (Public Speaker):** GOOD EVENING, MY NAME IS SAM STRONG, RESIDENT OF MINNEAPOLIS AND PRESIDENT OF THE MINNEAPOLIS INDIAN CENTER, RIGHT DOWN THE STREET AND BOARD CHAIR FOR THE NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RIGHT DOWN THE STREET. AND WE AS A COMMUNITY HAVE -- THIS HAS BEEN THE HEART OF OUR COMMUNITY FOR 50 YEARS. [32:19] **Sam Strong (Public Speaker):** IT IS THE COMMUNITY I HAVE HELPED LEAD THROUGH THESE ORGANIZATIONS. WE HAVE DONE EXTENSIVE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT OVER THE PAST 10, 12, 15 YEARS AND PLUS THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS FUNDED A GREAT STREETS GRANT WHICH -- ADMINISTERED WHERE WE SHOWED INCREASED DENSITY, INCREASED DEVELOPMENT ALONG THE STREET AND OUR POSITION IS THAT MORE EYES ON THE STREET IS BETTER. [32:41] **Sam Strong (Public Speaker):** WE ARE PROVIDING MORE EYES ON FRANKLIN AND 21ST IN THIS DEVELOPMENT. THE PARKING LOT FACING THE STREET ARE WHAT'S KILLING THE STREET LIFE. WE ARE JUST GOING TO GIVE THOSE PEOPLE HOUSES. SO CREATING SAFER ZONE, THINKING ABOUT CRIME PREVENTION THROUGH ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN. [32:58] **Sam Strong (Public Speaker):** ALL THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED IN THIS DEVELOPMENT. AND SO WHAT WE ARE DOING IS TRYING TO PROVIDE NOT ONLY SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE AN AMENITY TO THE CITY AND STREET, BUT ALSO PART OF A RESURGENCE OF ALL THE DEVELOPMENT WE ARE DOING ALONG FRANKLIN AVENUE AS A COMMUNITY, AS PEOPLE WHO HAVE TALKED AND TALKED DEEPLY, THE RESIDENTS HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS FOR YEARS. [33:25] **Sam Strong (Public Speaker):** DENSITY IS A GOOD THING. EYES OBJECT STREET. MORE INCLUSIVE SPACES. WE SEE THIS AS A POSITIVE DEVELOPMENT FOR FRANKLIN AVENUE AND THE CITY AND REGION. [33:31] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? ALL RIGHT, SEEING NONE, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONERS, IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? [33:57] **President Olson:** COMMISSIONER ALPER. [34:03] **Commissioner Alper:** I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO CAME OUT TO COMMENT TODAY FROM VENTURA VILLAGE. I THINK THIS IS A NEIGHBORHOOD -- THIS IS IN MY DISTRICT -- THIS IS A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS HAD MANY FAILED PROMISES. AND EXPERIENCES, PROBLEMS WITH NO EASY SOLUTIONS. I REALLY BELIEVE THAT DOCTOR STATELY AND THIS CLINIC AND HOUSING IS A GREAT STEP FORWARD. IT'S AN IMPROVEMENT ON WHAT IS THERE CURRENTLY. I HAVE A FEW THOUGHTS AND I ASK -- I SEE THIS HUGE NEED AND I THINK WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT AS A COMMISSION BEFORE TO HAVE PUBLIC WORKS STAFF BE MORE PRESENT AT THIS PUBLIC FORUM BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER PUBLIC FORUM WHERE PEOPLE CAN TALK ABOUT ISSUES AROUND TRAFFIC AND AROUND PARKING. [34:50] **Commissioner Alper:** I LOOKED AT THE PDR, THANK YOU FOR THAT. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. I DON'T SEE COMMENTS SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT THAT. AND I WISH THERE WERE MORE STRATEGIES, JUST IN GENERAL IN OUR CITY TO -- AS WE BUILD MORE HOUSING FOR PEOPLE, AS WE ACCOMMODATE MORE IN OUR CITY, WE NEED TO HAVE OTHER WAYS THAT I CAN GET AROUND. [35:19] **Commissioner Alper:** SO I WOULD LIKE -- I MEAN, ROUTE TWO ALONG FRANKLIN IS INCREASING SERVICE IN AUGUST. IT IS AWESOME. I'D LOVE TO SEE THIS DEVELOPMENT. I THINK I HAVE MENTIONED IT BEFORE OFFER RESIDENTIAL TRANSIT PASS TO ITS RESIDENTS. IS THAT SOMETHING BEING CONSIDERED? IT IS $14 PER MONTH PER UNIT. [35:46] **Commissioner Alper:** NOT DECIDED? [35:53] **David Wellington (Developer):** I'M DAVID WELLINGTON, WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT AND DEVELOPER OF THE CLINIC. TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS, WE ARE CONSIDERING IT. WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT GAP ON THE FUNDING SIDE FOR THE HOUSING THAT WE ARE PASSING THE HAT RIGHT NOW WITH BUNCH OF DIFFERENT PUBLIC SOURCES OF FUNDING. IF THERE ARE WAYS FOR US TO BE ABLE TO FUND THAT SPECIFIC THING, WE'D DO IT. [36:26] **Commissioner Alper:** GREAT. I THINK SOME OF THESE STRATEGIES WOULD APPEASE -- I HOPE WOULD GET AT SOME OF THE CONCERNS OF THE NEIGHBORS. AND I THINK THERE'S SOME -- I HAVE HEARD WIND ABOUT CERTAIN GRANTS THAT ARE IN THE WORKS. IT WOULD BE A GREAT PROJECT FOR YOU TO PARTNER UP WITH ON THAT. [37:02] **Commissioner Conley:** THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU TO EVERYBODY WHO CAME OUT TO SPEAK. I, TOO, REPRESENT THIS AREA. I'M YOUR DISTRICT FOUR COMMISSIONER. I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS PROJECT. I GREW UP IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW YOU COME UP ON 21ST AND IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT WORLD THAN WHEN YOU CROSS OVER AND YOU'RE ON THE FRANKLIN SIDE, IT IS DIFFERENT. IT IS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT. IT IS FAST PACED, IT IS MOVING AND IN FACT, FRANKLIN AVENUE IS UNDER A REDESIGN RIGHT NOW. FRANKLIN AVENUE IS A COUNTY ROAD. AND SO THERE MAY BE EVEN MORE TRAFFIC IN THE FUTURE PUSHED BACK INTO THE RESIDENTIAL AREA. SO I'M JUST CHIMING IN, TOO, ON THE FACT THAT PUBLIC WORKS ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE PART OF THESE DISCUSSIONS. [37:43] **Commissioner Conley:** SO I KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW WITH THE FRANKLIN AVENUE REDESIGN IS TALKING WITH COMMUNITY MEMBERS ABOUT WHAT THE STREET DESIGN COULD LOOK LIKE GIVEN THE TRAFFIC THAT WILL BE GOING THROUGH. SO WHAT COULD 21ST AVENUE LOOK LIKE? I'M LOOKING AT THE TEAM HERE. WHAT CONVERSATIONS HAVE WE HAD WITH VENTURA VILLAGE AND SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES ABOUT WHAT POTENTIALLY THIS COULD LOOK LIKE? I HAVE SEEN PROJECTS COME BEFORE US WHERE NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS COME UP AND WHERE RESIDENTS COME TO SPEAK ABOUT THE STREETS AND THE SAFETY. [38:22] **Commissioner Conley:** WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW SIGNS HAVE BEEN PUT UP AND PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS AND ALL THE THINGS. IT IS SAFER GIVEN THAT THERE IS A HIGH AMOUNT OF FOLKS THAT WILL BE LIVING HERE. THAT NEED TO LIVE HERE. SO HOUSING IS, LIKE, ABSOLUTELY, WE NEED IT TODAY. TALK TO ME MORE ABOUT HOW THE COMMUNITY HAS BEEN DELIBERATELY SPOKEN WITH ABOUT TRAFFIC. THERE IS NOTHING I CAN COMMENT ON IN REGARD TO ENFORCEMENT, BUT HOW DO YOU SEE THIS PROJECT BLENDING IN WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT PROMOTES SAFETY, ESPECIALLY THE 21ST STREET SIDE THAT IS NOW RELATIVELY QUIET EXCEPT FOR THE INCREASE IN TRAFFIC? MY QUESTION IS AROUND COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN, I THINK WAS BROUGHT UP FOR SAFETY, WHICH I AM A FIRM BELIEVER IN. HOW CAN WE MAKE THAT BACKSIDE LIGHTER, BRIGHTER, SAFER AND JU... [39:27] **David Wellington (Developer):** SO WE HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND SAMS WELL. THEY MIGHT HAVE TO TALK MORE ABOUT COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT. WE REACH OUT TO PUBLIC WORKS VERY EARLY ON IN THIS PROJECT. ONE OF OUR LARGEST CONCERNS WAS PEDESTRIAN SAFETY AT FRANKLIN AVENUE. IT IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION RIGHT NOW. THEY ARE INCREASING PEDESTRIAN SAFETY. WE WORKED WITH STAFF AS WE TO CONNECTIONS WELL AS EAST-SOUTH SAFER AND ALONG 21ST AVENUE TO T IN THE SIDEWALK TO MAKE IT MORE PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY AS FAR AS TWO LAYERS OF STREET TREES, FENCES AND DECORATIVE LIGHTING. [40:19] **David Wellington (Developer):** WE HAVE TWO KIND OF A NODES THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT KIND OF THE WELL ON THE SOUTHEAST AND SOUTHWEST CORNER. WE ARE TRYING TO SPRUCE UP WHAT 21ST STREET IS. IN DISCUSSION WITH PUBLIC WORKS, THE CIRCULATION ON TO 21ST STREET FROM FRANKLIN AVENUE BECAUSE OTHERWISE FRANKLIN AVENUE... THE ABILITY TO GET OUT I ACTUALLY LING IN TERMS OF A LARGER PATTERN. AND SO WE'RE LOOKING AT TH KIND OF PROVIDING PEDESTRIAN WALKWAYS TO GET PEOPLE FROM 21ST ACROSS. [40:52] **David Wellington (Developer):** I THINK THE NEW PLAZA AREA, THE NORTH-SOUTH CONNECTION IS A STRONG, BETTER CONNECTION WITH MORE THROUG THAT AREA AS WELL. SO I THINK ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING. I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME DISCUSSIONS AND I THINK WE CAN CONTINUE TO HAVE SOME OF THOSE, BUT WE ARE TRYING TO GET BETTER PEDESTRIAN SAFETY, BETTER LIGHTING. AND THE BIKE FACILITIES AS WELL. SO THE BIKE PATH THROUGH THERE IS NORTH-SOUTH... [41:18] **Commissioner Conley:** RIGHT, THANK YOU. [41:20] **Sam Strong (Public Speaker):** THANK YOU, AGAIN. I'M GOING TO REINTRODUCE MYSELF WITH SAM- WITH FULL CIRCLE THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE INDIGENOUSLY SAYING, PART OF THE STRATEGY WAS I WAS PART OF THE DESIGN TEAM THAT DID THE GREAT STREETS GRANT EXTENSIVE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT ABOUT HOW TO MAKE THE COMMUNITY SAFER. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IDENTIFIED WAS 21ST STREET. RIGHT NOW I'D RATHER WALK ON FRANKLIN AT NIGHT THAN 21ST STREET BECAUSE IT IS BLANK WALL THAT BASICALLY IS JUST DELIVERIES AND THERE IS CHAIN LINK FENCE. [41:59] **Sam Strong (Public Speaker):** I ALSO -- MY FAMILY LIVED HERE WHEN I WAS A BABY. AND SO I LIVED ON A DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENT WHEN THE STREET USED TO GO THROUGH. AND SO THAT -- WHEN THE CITY ALLOWED THE SUPER BLOCK TO HAPPEN, THAT IS I THINK WHEN SOME OF... WHEN YOU CUT OFF PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY AND CUT OFF ACCESS. MORE CONNECTED THROUGH STREETS AND GETTING RID OF FENCES, GETTING REALLY SAFETY CONCERNS AS BEEN THE SOMETHING WE CONSIDERED REALLY CAREFULLY AND MASTER PLAN OF THE PROJECT. [42:30] **Sam Strong (Public Speaker):** THE AMERICAN INDIAN COMMUNITY BLUEPRINT. YOU CAN REFER TO THAT. AND WHAT WE DID FOR THE GREAT STREETS GRANT THAT TALKED ABOUT PEDESTRIAN PREVENTION THROUGH ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN NOT A ONE-SIDED BUILDING. WE TOOK DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS IN REGARD TO DISCUSSIONS WITH THE COMMUNITY OVER 15 YEARS ON THIS PROJECT. [42:55] **President Olson:** COMMISSIONER -- IS YOUR QUESTION ANSWERED? I DON'T WANT TO SPEND THE WHOLE... [43:02] **Commissioner Conley:** NO. YEAH I THINK IT WAS ANSWERED WITH HOW THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD WHO WAS SPEAKING... [43:08] **Commissioner Alper:** JUST QUICKLY TALK ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT THE CLINIC AND THE HOUSING IS LIKELY TO- ARE POSSIBLY, POTENTIALLY LIKELY TO INCREASE? [43:31] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** SO THE CLINIC IS ACTUALLY PRIORITIZING DURING THE BUILDING PHASE OF THE PROJECT, AND ALSO WE'LL AFTER THE BUILDING IS BUILT. WE'RE INCENTIVIZING AND PRIORITIZING AND ENCOURAGING STAFF TO CARPOOL AND TAKE TRANSIT TO THE SITE. AND BUILDING OUR EMPLOYEE STRUCTURE AND EMPLOYEE COMPENSATION STRUCTURE TO DO THAT, BECAUSE WE WANT THEM TO LOWER THE CARBON FOOTPRINT, BE MORE EFFICIENT AND REDUCE TRAFFIC ON THE SITE. [44:30] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** THE OTHER THING I THINK I WANTED TO JUST REALLY QUICKLY SAY IS THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY PROPOSING TO CHANGE THE PARKING STRUCTURE OF, LIKE, OUR LOT AND THEN ALSO WE ARE WORKING WITH OUR OTHER LANDOWNERS TO THE LEFT OF US -- OR, LIKE, TO THE RIGHT, TO THE EAST, WHICH IS THE ALDI BUILDING. THEY CURRENTLY HAVE REALLY HORRIBLE PARKING. IF ANYBODY EVER GOES TO ACTUALLY SHOP AT ALDI OR IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW YOU'RE TAKING YOUR LIFE INTO YOUR OWN HANDS, MANAGING THAT PARKING LOT. BECAUSE ACTUALLY, WHEN I WENT TO WORK TODAY, I ALMOST GOT HIT BY SOMEBODY. [44:48] **Dr. Antony Stately (Applicant):** SO I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE TRYING TO BE AS GOOD A RELATIVE AS WE POSSIBLY CAN, THAT IS WHAT WE SAY ABOUT OUR CLINIC. WE TRY TO SHOW UP AND BE A GOOD RELATIVE IN EVERYTHING WE DO, INCLUDING TO OUR NEIGHBORS AND ALSO THE PEOPLE WE SERVE. BUT WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE PRIORITIZING SAFETY OF OUR RESIDENTS, OUR PATIENTS AND NEIGHBORHOOD. SO WE ARE BALANCING MULTIPLE THINGS AND TRYING TO WORK WITH OUR PARTNERS TO DO THAT. I THINK WE ARE BEING REALLY INTENTIONAL ABOUT THAT. [45:12] **President Olson:** COMMISSIONER FORD. [45:15] **Commissioner Ford:** I THINK THIS HAS THE POSSIBILITY TO BE AN EXCITING PROJECT. I HAVE QUESTIONS. STAFF TALKED ABOUT -- WE KNOW THERE ARE ISSUES HERE, YET -- THAT WILL BE RESOLVED IN THE FUTURE. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANS IN THIS CASE. [45:34] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** I CAN TAKE A CHANCE AT ANSWERING THAT ONE. PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT REVIEW IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS THAT HAPPENS BEFORE YOU SEE A LAND USE APPLICATION. SO THAT IS A PROCESS WHERE PLANS ARE REVIEWED BY PLANNING STAFF, PUBLIC WORKS STAFF, CONSTRUCTION CODE SERVICES STAFF, BUILDING CODE COMPLIANCE, SOMETIMES BUSINESS LICENSING GETS INVOLVED. YOU KNOW, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS LOOKING AT ACCESS. ALL THOSE THINGS ARE COMING IN IN A REPORT. AND THAT REPORT IS ATTACHED TO THE STAFF MEMO THAT YOU GOT FOR THIS PROJECT AND IT WAS TYPICALLY IN YOUR PACKET. [46:07] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** BUT HOW THE PROCESS WORKS IS IF THERE ARE ISSUES THAT ARE IDENTIFIED BY PUBLIC WORKS THOSE COMMENTS WILL BE IN THAT REPORT. AND THERE IS A REVISION PROCESS THAT HAPPENS AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING WHERE THE APPLICANT CAN INCORPORATE ALL THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION INTO THEIR PLANS AND ALSO INCORPORATE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS FROM PUBLIC WORKS INTO THEIR PLANS. AND THEY SUBMIT A REVISED SET OF PLANS THAT INCORPORATES ALL COMMENTS FOR APPROVAL AT ONE TIME, ALL HAPPENING BEFORE THE PERMIT IS SUBMITTED. [47:01] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** IF THERE ARE MAJOR ISSUES IDENTIFIED IN A PDR REPORT, IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO GET AS FAR AS THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR IF IT DOES GET TO YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL FROM PLANNING STAFF THAT ARE ALSO ASKING FOR REVISIONS TO THE PLANS. IT'S OFTEN THINGS LIKE -- HEY, YOU PUT THE WRONG STANDARD PLATE NUMBER ON YOUR PEDESTRIAN CROSSING. OR YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO SEE THIS UTILITY CONNECTION REVISED TO THIS SIZE. THAT SORT OF THING. IF IT'S SOMETHING LIKE, HEY, YOU CAN'T HAVE A CURB CUT RIGHT HERE; OR WE THINK THIS IS TOO MUCH TRAFFIC COMING OUT ON TO THE STREET, IT IS NOT GOING TO GET TO YOU UNTIL THAT IS ADDRESSED. [47:57] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** SO IN THIS CASE, THE COMMENTS WERE RELATIVELY MINOR. THERE IS SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE ABOUT CONTINUING TO WORK WITH HENNEPIN COUNTY THROUGHOUT THE FRANKLIN AVENUE STREET RECONSTRUCTION. A LOT OF MORE JUST KIND OF BOILERPLATE TYPE COMMENTS FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, BUT IT'S NEVER SOMETHING WHERE SOMEONE HAS PDR APPROVAL BEFORE IT GETS TO PLANNING COMMISSION BECAUSE THE PROCESS IS STILL ON UNTIL THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. [48:00] **Commissioner Ford:** SO WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE THE PUBLIC WHO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT 21ST STREET? [48:06] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** THIS IS THE PROPER FORUM TO RAISE THOSE COMMENTS IN WORKING WITH PUBLIC WORKS TO GET A PROJECT TO THIS POINT AND PLANNING STAFF IS WELL VERSED IN ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS. [48:21] **President Olson:** ALL RIGHT. I'M NOT SEEING ANYMORE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONERS. WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION? OR COMMISSIONER ALPER? [48:40] **Commissioner Alper:** I JUST HAVE ONE ADDITIONAL COMMENT AND THEN I'LL MAKE A MOTION. BUT I THINK WE'RE REALLY FAILING PEOPLE WITH TRAFFIC CALMING IN OUR CITY. I MEAN, WE HAD SOMETHING, LIKE, 600 PROJECTS SUBMITTED AND WE APPROVED -- WHAT -- 20? I'M SURE I HAVE THE NUMBERS OFF. I THINK IT IS EMBLEMATIC, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO COME IN AND TALK TO US ABOUT TRAFFIC SAFETY ISSUES. WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO MOVE THIS FORWARD WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. [49:18] **President Olson:** WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND TO ADOPT STAFF RECOMMENDATION. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, WOULD THE CLERK CALL THE ROLL? **Clerk:** COMMISSIONER ALPER. **Commissioner Alper:** AYE. **Clerk:** BAXLEY. **Commissioner Baxley:** AYE. **Clerk:** CAMPBELL. **Commissioner Campbell:** AYE. **Clerk:** CONLEY. **Commissioner Conley:** AYE. **Clerk:** FORD. **Commissioner Ford:** AYE. **Clerk:** KOSKI. **Commissioner Koski:** AYE. [49:34] **Clerk:** MEYER. **Commissioner Meyer:** AYE. **Clerk:** OLSON. **President Olson:** AYE. **Clerk:** EIGHT YEAS, ZERO NAYS. **President Olson:** THAT MOTION PASSES. THAT CONCLUDES ITEM NUMBER 11. AND OUR NEXT ITEM IS ITEM NUMBER 12 AND STAFF IS HILLARY DVORAK. [50:29] **Hillary Dvorak (Staff):** GOOD EVENING, PLANNING COMMISSIONERS. I'M HILLARY DVORAK. THIS IS A PROJECT AT 3016 TO 3024 FREMONT AVENUE SOUTH. IT IS A SITE MADE UP OF THREE INDIVIDUAL SINGLE FAMILY HOME LOTS. THERE IS ONE SINGLE FAMILY HOME ON EACH OF THE THREE LOTS. THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO DEMOLISH THOSE UNITS AND CONSTRUCT A MULTIFAMILY HOUSING UNIT ON THE SITE. THERE WOULD BE 58 PARKING SPACES ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR. [50:44] **Hillary Dvorak (Staff):** THE ONLY APPLICATION THAT IS BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING IS SITE PLAN REVIEW THAT MEETS ALL THE STANDARDS OF THE ZONING CODE. IT MEETS ALL THE STANDARDS OF THE SITE PLAN REVIEW CHAPTER EXCEPT FOR THE CONDITION PERTAINING TO SHRUBS. SO WE HAVE RECONDITIONING THE APPROVAL OF THIS APPLICATION BEFORE YOU TO ADD -- TO HAVE AT LEAST 14 SHRUBS PROVIDED ON THIS SITE. [51:26] **Hillary Dvorak (Staff):** I WOULD MENTION THAT THE TWO GROUND LEVEL PATIOS TO THE TWO WALK-UP UNITS ARE SLIGHTLY OVER THE 50 SQUARE FEET. THEY MEASURE AT 57.5 SO THEY NEED TO TURN THEM DOWN BY 1 SQUARE FOOT -- OR 1 FOOT TO GET TO THE 50 SQUARE FEET. ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, THE MAIN ENTRANCE IS HERE IN THE MIDDLE. THESE ARE THE TWO WALK-UP UNITS. THEY HAVE LOUNGE SPACE AND ALSO A WORKOUT ROOM HERE. [52:05] **Hillary Dvorak (Staff):** ACCESS TO THE ON SITE PARKING IS FROM THE BACK. THIS IS A BETTER FLOOR PLAN THAT SHOWS YOU THAT THOSE ACCESS TO THE PARKING. THEY DID NEED AN FAR PREMIUM. THEY ARE DOING ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY, THEY ARE DOING A GREEN ROOF. HERE IS THE DIAGRAM THAT SHOWS WHERE THE GREEN ROOF ELEMENTS WILL BE LOCATED. I'M GOING TO JUST JUMP TO THE RENDERINGS. THEY MEET ALL THE STANDARDS OF OUR SITE PLAN REVIEW CHAPTER. [52:21] **Hillary Dvorak (Staff):** THIS IS THE BUILDING LOOKING AT IT FROM FREMONT. THIS IS OTHER -- THIS IS LOOKING NORTH AT THE BUILDING INSTEAD OF SOUTH. AND THEN THIS ELEVATION IS THE NORTH ELEVATION OF THE BUILDING THAT FACES WHAT IS CURRENTLY SURFACE PARKING LOT. BOND UTILITIES WILL PROPOSE A HOUSING STRUCTURE IN THIS SITE. YOU WON'T SEE THIS ONCE COMMON BOND BUILDS AS STRUCTURE IN THIS LOCATION. AND THIS IS THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE BUILDING. THIS IS THE ALLEY AND PARKING RAMP FOR 7 POINTS ON THE LEFT. I WILL STAND FOR ANY QUESTIONS. [53:05] **President Olson:** THANK YOU, HILLARY. ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF BEFORE WE CONTINUE? I DON'T SEE ANY. THANK YOU. IS THE APPLICANT HERE AND WOULD THEY LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM? YOU CAN STEP FORWARD. STATE YOUR NAME AND NEIGHBORHOOD FOR THE RECORD. [53:26] **Evan Williams (Applicant):** THIS IS EVAN WILLIAMS ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT. I'LL KEEP MY COMMENTS BRIEF. YOU KNOW, WE ARE PLEASED TO PRESENT THIS IN FRONT OF YOU ALL TODAY. WE THINK WE MEET ALL THE GOALS THAT YOU HAVE OUTLINED IN THE 2040 PLAN TO BRING MORE HOUSING TO UPTOWN. WE LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING MORE RESIDENTS AND PEOPLE LIVING IN THE COMMUNITY TO REALLY HELP IT COME BACK, BRING MORE BUSINESSES SHOPS. WE THINK THIS HOUSING DEVELOPMENT WILL GET THAT. THANK YOU. [54:02] **President Olson:** ALL RIGHT, WE'LL CONTINUE WITH THE PUBLIC HEARING. IF THERE IS ANYONE ELSE HERE WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? YOU CAN COME TO THE PODIUM NOW. [54:09] **Phil (Public Speaker):** I LIVE A BLOCK EAST OF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT. IT IS A PLEASURE TO COME BEFORE YOU ALL TODAY. I UNDERSTAND THAT THE APPLICANT HAS THE ZONING THEY NEED TO MOVE FORWARD. I WOULD RESPECTFULLY ASK THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER LAYING IT OVER ONE CYCLE IF A MOTION MIGHT BE MADE. FIRST, I'D LIKE TO ASK RESPECTFULLY THAT THE DEVELOPER CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THE RESIDENTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF SOUTHEAST UPTOWN. IF YOU COULD BRING UP SLIDE NUMBER 15, PLEASE, WHICH I THINK YOU'LL SEE... [55:17] **Phil (Public Speaker):** THE PIECE IS THAT -- THAT I WANTED TO COMMENT ON IS, AGAIN, WILL BE APPLICANT CONTINUE TO -- PLEASE BEGIN TO WORK WITH THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. YOU'LL SEE A RESIDENTIAL HOME IN GRAY. A PERSON LIVES THERE. THEY HAVE LIVED THERE, MAINTAINED THEIR HOME AND PAID THEIR TAXES. AND I'M SORRY AS YOU LOOK AT ANY BUILDING THAT IS SIX STORIES NEXT TO A RESIDENTIAL TWO-STORY HOME, THAT SIX-STORY STRUCTURE NEXT TO A RESIDENTIAL HOME IS DETRIMENTAL TO THAT RESIDENTIAL HOME. [55:53] **Phil (Public Speaker):** WE'D ASK THE DEVELOPER TO PLEASE CONSIDER A ROOFLINE STEPDOWN OF THE ROOF HEIGHT TOWARDS THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. WE UNDERSTAND THE CURRENT DESIGN HAS A PARTY ROOM THAT IS CURRENTLY PLANNED FOR THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OVER THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. I WILL FINISH. WE'D ASK THEM TO PLEASE MOVE THAT TO THE NORTH SIDE SO IT'S NOT IMMEDIATELY OVER THE RESIDENTIAL HOUSE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. HAVE A NICE DAY. [56:31] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? [56:37] **Public Speaker (3032 Fremont):** HI, MY NAME IS -- I LIVE AT 3032 FREMONT AVENUE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GRAY HOUSE. YOU CAN SEE A CORNER OF IT. THERE IS THAT PARTY ROOM ON THE SOUTHWEST CORNER. WE -- I AGREE WITH PHIL THAT I ASK THAT IT BE MOVED TO MAYBE THE NORTH-NORTHWEST CORNER, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, SO IT IS NOT OVERLOOKING MY NEIGHBOR, STEVE'S HOUSE. ALSO, VISIBLE IN THIS PICTURE, THERE IS INSET BALCONIES THROUGHOUT. YOU CAN'T SEE THE BOTTOM TWO LEVELS, BUT THEY ARE THERE. [57:14] **Public Speaker (3032 Fremont):** I DON'T KNOW HOW TO WORK THAT. BUT LOOKING AT THE OVERHEAD VIEW, THEY ARE JUST NOT INCLUDED IN THE PLANS, SO WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT WE ARE GETTING. ARE THERE BALCONIES OVERLOOKING THE HOUSES? ARE THERE NOT BALCONIES OVERLOOKING THE HOUSES? I UNDERSTAND THEY ARE WITHIN THE LIMITS OF PARKING AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE A PLEA HERE BECAUSE FREMONT AVENUE IS NOMINALLY A ONE-WAY STREET GOING NORTH, LEGALLY A ONE-WAY STREET GOING NORTH. [57:57] **Public Speaker (3032 Fremont):** IN PRACTICE, IT IS A TWO-WAY STREET. THERE ARE SO MANY CARS COMING THE WRONG WAY, SOME VERY FAST. PARKING IS AT A PREMIUM. I PAY -- I THINK $40 A YEAR FOR MYSELF. $40 TO HAVE A GUEST. RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT BAD BECAUSE THERE IS SOME OPEN HOUSES, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE VERY BAD. WE SPOKE WITH EVAN ABOUT MAYBE GETTING VOUCHERS FOR THE RESIDENTS THERE. ALSO WE ARE HOPING THERE IS A PRIVACY FENCE PUT UP. SO STEVE'S HOUSE IS NOT RIGHT IN THE WAY OF THAT. RIGHT IN THE VIEW. THANK YOU. [58:43] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? [58:50] **Public Speaker:** HI, MY NAME IS -- AND I LIVE AT 3032 FREMONT AVENUE SOUTH, ONE HOUSE AWAY FROM THIS DEVELOPMENT. MY PARENTS -- I'M AN IMMIGRANT TO THIS COUNTRY. MY PARENTS BOUGHT THE HOUSE AS IMMIGRANTS. THEY ARE DECEASED NOW. FOUGHT HARD FOR THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. SO WE HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE 1970. I CAME FULL CIRCLE, BOUGHT THE HOUSE LATER. A LOT HAS HAPPENED IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS PROPOSAL FOR SIX STORIES, 78 UNITS AND ONLY 28 PARKING SPOTS. [59:22] **Public Speaker:** THE PARKING IS HORRIBLE. I DON'T SEE HOW THAT IS VIABLE, ACTUALLY. MORE IMPORTANTLY, FOR ME, I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL WHERE THE Y IS RIGHT NOW. I WENT TO GRADE SCHOOL WHERE CALLAHAN SQUARE IS RIGHT NOW. WHEN GEORGE FLOYD HAPPENED AND WHEN WINSTON BOOGIE SMITH HAPPENED AND WITH THE POLICE NOT COMING A LOT ANYMORE, WITH THE TRAUMA IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WITH TRAUMA IN GENERAL, MY NEIGHBOR AT THE END OF THIS BLOCK DOES NOT WANT TO MOVE. [59:54] **Public Speaker:** HE SAID HE IS VERY TRAUMATIZED ABOUT IT. I FEEL REALLY BAD THAT HE FEELS FORCED OUT OF HIS HOME. I FEEL LIKE THE ONLY SAFE THING IN MY LIFE IS MY HOME AND WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING UP A SIX-STORY BUILDING THAT FAR AWAY -- ONE HOUSE AWAY, I DON'T FEEL SAFE. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT MY 1908 HOME IS PROTECTED. I HAVE NOBODY THAT'S TELLING ME IT IS GOING TO BE. I HAVE WORKED REALLY HARD AND I FEEL PRETTY TRAUMATIZED AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS ALL GOING TO WORK. I WANT A WIN-WIN SITUATION. [1:00:28] **Public Speaker:** I TRIED TO TALK TO THE DEVELOPER HOPING WE CAN DO THAT. I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT HOW THEY CARE TO MAKE SURE THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR MY HOUSE IS GOING TO BE OKAY. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH TIME -- SORRY, AM I DONE? [1:00:44] **President Olson:** I JUST NOTICED IT WASN'T GOING. **Public Speaker:** I WAS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH TIME I HAVE. BUT MY BANK WAS BURNED DOWN. MY SAFETY DEPOSIT BOX WAS GONE. I MEAN, THERE'S BEEN SO MUCH TRAUMA AND SERIOUSLY, MY HOME IS THE ONLY SAFE PLACE I KNOW. AND I'M REALLY TRAUMATIZED BY THE FACT THAT I DON'T FEEL LIKE I MIGHT EVEN BE SAFE IN MY OWN HOME. I'M TRYING NOT TO CRY, BUT IT IS REAL AND I WORK REALLY HARD TO -- I HAVE FOR THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. A LOT OF THE PLANS HAVE BEEN CHUCKED FOR THAT MY FATHER WORKED FOR, I WORKED FOR, THAT MY NEIGHBOR AT THE END OF THE BLOCK THAT FEELS FORCED OUT HAS WORKED FOR. THAT IS ALL. THANK YOU. [1:01:29] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? ALL RIGHT, SEEING NONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONERS, IS THERE ANY... COMMISSIONER CONLEY. [1:01:38] **Commissioner Conley:** THANK YOU. I'D LIKE THE DEVELOPERS OR THE PROJECT PLANNERS TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THEY SPOKE WITH NEIGHBORS ABOUT THINGS LIKE HOW THIS PROJECT WOULD IMPACT THE RESIDENTS. I'M ALWAYS GOING TO BE ONE THAT'S GOING TO ASK ABOUT COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, JUST SO EVERYONE IS CLEAR. BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT TO ME THAT WHEN NEW PROJECTS POP UP, THAT RESIDENTS REALLY KNOW THE REAL IMPACTS ON HOW IT WILL AFFECT THEIR LIVELIHOODS. [1:02:11] **Commissioner Conley:** I'D LIKE DETAILS AROUND HOW THE PROJECT PARTNERS, DEVELOPERS, REACHED OUT TO NEIGHBORS, ONE. AND TWO, I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN -- I THINK WHEN THIS WAS FIRST INTRODUCED, STAFF MENTIONED THERE WAS SOME SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AROUND IT THAT WILL BE GONE. WERE THOSE EMPTY? WERE THEY BOARDED UP? WERE THEY SOLD? DID YOU BUY THEM? CURIOUS ABOUT THOSE? THANK YOU. [1:02:40] **President Olson:** IF SOMEONE FROM THE APPLICANT TEAM WANTS TO COME UP AND RESPOND. [1:02:48] **Evan Williams (Applicant):** REGARDING THE QUESTION ON THE PURCHASES OF THE HOMES. THE FIRST HOME AT 3024 WAS FOR SALE LAST FALL. ONCE THAT WAS PURCHASED, THEN LETTERS AND DISCUSSIONS WERE HAD WITH THE ADJACENT NEIGHBORS TO SEE -- THIS IS WHAT WE ARE THINKING FOR THIS BLOCK. ARE YOU INTERESTED? THEN THE NEIGHBOR AT 3020 WAS. THEY ENDED UP SELLING THEIR HOME. AND THEN WE CONTINUED THE CONVERSATION WITH THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR, BOTH AT 3028 AND 3016 AND THEN AT 3016, HE WAS ALSO INTERESTED IN SELLING. SO THAT IS HOW -- AS FAR AS PURCHASING THE HOMES, WE HAVE GONE ABOUT THAT. ONE WAS -- IT WAS A TENANT OCCUPIED. THE OTHER TWO WERE HOMEOWNERS. [1:03:52] **Jessica (Design Team):** I'M JESSICA WITH THE DESIGN TEAM. I WANTED TO ADDRESS YOUR QUESTION ABOUT ENGAGEMENT. WE DID PRESENT THIS PROJECT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD GROUP AND I HAVE HAD MULTIPLE CONVERSATIONS WITH JEROME -- WHO IS CHAIR OF DESIGN. AND ONE OF THE COMMITTEES AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD GROUP. AND I DON'T KNOW IF EVAN -- IF YOU ALL HAD A MEETING TO DISCUSS? I KNOW THERE WAS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HAVING A NEIGHBORHOOD GROUP MEETING WITH EVAN TO DISCUSS THEIR CONCERNS FURTHER. WE HAVE CERTAINLY MADE -- WE HAVE PRESENTED TO THE GROUP, LISTENED TO FEEDBACK. WE CERTAINLY ARE HAPPY TO DO THINGS LIKE MOVE THE PARTY ROOM AND MAKE ACCOMMODATIONS TO TRY TO IMPROVE THIS FOR THEIR EXPERIENCE. BUT WE HAVE CERTAINLY TRIED TO BE INVOLVED IN COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND SPEAK WITH SHAREHOLDERS. [1:05:01] **President Olson:** ALL RIGHT. I'M NOT SEEING ANY OTHER COMMENTS. I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT STAFF RECOMMENDATION. YOU KNOW, SIX STORIES IS ALSO A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD SO IT'S KIND OF FRUSTRATING TO HEAR THAT. I'LL ALSO JUST SAY THIS MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS. AND NOT ONLY DOES IT MEET REQUIREMENTS, IT SEEMS EXCEEDINGLY APPROPRIATE FOR THIS SITE. SO I'LL MOVE TO ADOPT STAFF RECOMMENDATION. ALL RIGHT, WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, I'LL ASK THE CLERK TO PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. **Clerk:** COMMISSIONER ALPER. **Commissioner Alper:** AYE. **Clerk:** BAXLEY. **Commissioner Baxley:** AYE. **Clerk:** CAMPBELL. **Commissioner Campbell:** AYE. **Clerk:** CONLEY. **Commissioner Conley:** AYE. **Clerk:** FORD. **Commissioner Ford:** AYE. **Clerk:** KOSKI. **Commissioner Koski:** AYE. **Clerk:** MEYER. **Commissioner Meyer:** AYE. **Clerk:** OLSON. **President Olson:** AYE. [1:05:59] **Clerk:** THAT IS EIGHT YEAS, ZERO NAYS. **President Olson:** THAT MOTION PASSES AND THAT CONCLUDES ITEM NUMBER 12. OUR NEXT ITEM IS ITEM NUMBER 14 AND STAFF IS MADEL MOUTA. [1:06:58] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. I'M MADEL MOUTA AND I'M HERE TO PRESENT THE EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIALS GUIDELINES. THE PROPOSED GUIDELINES AND ZONING CODE TESTAMENT WOULD INTRODUCE A SET OF GUIDELINES THAT WILL GUIDE THE APPLICATION OF EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIALS. THE INTENT OF THE GUIDELINES IS TO PROVIDE DESIGN GUIDANCE FOR MATERIALS TO ENSURE QUALITY, LASTING, AFFORDABLE, EQUITABLE AND BEAUTIFUL URBAN BUILT ENVIRONMENT FOR ALL COMMUNITIES IN THE ENTIRE CITY. [1:07:44] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIALS HAVE A VARIETY OF IMPACTS ON THE QUALITY AND SAFETY OF THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT INCLUDING LIFE SAFETY, BUILDING DURABILITY AND SUSTAINABILITY, HOUSING COSTS AND AESTHETIC COMPATIBILITY WITH EXISTING AND HISTORIC BUILDING STOCK. MINNEAPOLIS HAS BEEN EXPERIENCING STRONG GROWTH OVER THE LAST DECADE WHICH HAS BROUGHT A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF -- PROPOSED GUIDELINES ARE INTENDED TO STRENGTHEN THE CITY'S ABILITY TO REGULATE AND COMMUNICATE THE STANDARDS BY WHICH WE EVALUATE NEW CONSTRUCTION. [1:08:08] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** THESE GUIDELINES ARE A ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT THAT ARE MEANT TO BE CONCISE AND THAT ARE MEANT TO BASICALLY CREATE A BASELINE FOR BUILDINGS ACROSS THE ENTIRE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS. THE GUIDELINES WOULD APPLY TO NEW BUILDINGS AND ADDITIONS SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW. THEY WOULD NOT BE APPLICABLE TO ONE TO THREE UNIT RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, WHICH ARE REGULATED DIFFERENTLY, INCLUDING INCENTIVES FOR DURABLE MATERIALS. THE GUIDELINES ARE ALSO NOT APPLICABLE TO BUILDINGS THAT WERE NEVER SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW. [1:08:43] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** THESE GUIDELINES PLACE A GREATER EMPHASIS ON UTILIZING MORE DURABLE MATERIALS AT THE BASE OF BUILDINGS TO ENHANCE THE PUBLIC REALM AND ALSO THE PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE. AND THEY ALLOW LESS DURABLE MATERIALS TO BE USED AT MIDDLE, TOP OR TRIM AND ACCENTS OF A BUILDING. THE GUIDELINES THEMSELVES WOULD NOT BE PART OF ZONING CODE, BUT THEY WOULD BE REFERENCED IN THE CODE IN CHAPTER 550. 570 BUILDING LAWS. [1:09:05] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** AT THE END OF THIS SECTION IT HAS A REFERENCE THAT SAYS "EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIALS SHALL COMPLY WITH ADOPTED BUILDING MATERIALS GUIDELINES." THE REASON FOR THIS BEING GUIDELINES INSTEAD OF IN THE ACTUAL ZONING CODE THEMSELVES IS TO ADMINISTER GREATER FLEXIBILITY THROUGH ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE IF THE APPLICANT IS ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THE MEET THE GUIDELINES, THE CITY'S CODE OF ORDINANCES AND COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. [1:09:50] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** SO THESE GUIDELINES WOULD ALSO PROVIDE MORE FLEXIBILITY FOR MISSING MIDDLE RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, WHICH ARE OUR 4 TO 20 UNITS. THEY WOULD PROVIDE MORE EQUITABLE AND PREDICTABLE DESIGN OUTCOMES FOR THE CITY. IT WOULD ENSURE SUSTAINABLE MATERIALS ARE USED AROUND HIGHER QUALITY MATERIAL AT THE BASE OF BUILDINGS NEAR THE PUBLIC REALM. THIS HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS TO GET TO WHERE WE ARE NOW. [1:10:27] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** WE HAVE BEEN USING A SET OF GUIDELINE FROM 2014 THAT HAS, LIKE, GREATLY INFLUENCED WHAT WE HAVE NOW. WE ALSO HAVE CONDUCTED PEER CITY RESEARCH TO UNDERSTAND HOW OTHER CITIES ARE REGULATING EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIALS AND HAVE GOTTEN A LOT OF THE NEW GUIDELINES FROM THERE, JUST DEPENDING ON BEST PRACTICES IN OTHER CITIES. AGAIN, I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT THIS HAS BEEN AN ITERATIVE PROCESS. WE HAVE GONE TO DESIGNERS, TO DEVELOPERS, TO OTHER PLANNERS, TO GET FEEDBACK ON THE RESULTS -- OR ON THE GUIDELINE THEMSELVES AND HAVE ADJUSTED ACCORDINGLY. [1:11:06] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** TESTED DIFFERENT SUGGESTIONS. SOME OF THE PEER RESEARCH WE DID -- AGAIN, THE TABLE WHICH IS, LIKE, THE MAIN PORTION OF THE GUIDELINES WAS LARGELY MODELLED AFTER MADISON, WISCONSIN. SO THEY HAVE A TABLE THAT IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT WE HAVE. OF COURSE WE TAILORED THE TABLE TO MEET OUR NEEDS. WE LOOKED AT OTHER CITIES LIKE DES MOINES, IOWA WHICH HAS AN EXTENSIVE SITE OF EXTERIOR BUILDING GUIDELINES, WHICH IS FOUND IN THEIR CODE AND THEY BREAK IT DOWN BETWEEN MAJOR AND MINOR MATERIALS. [1:11:49] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** THEY EVEN HAVE A PERCENTAGE OF A BREAKDOWN OF WHERE MATERIALS CAN GO AND ALSO A LIST OF PROHIBITED MATERIALS. AND I ALSO WANT TO EMPHASIZE, LIKE, THAT THESE GUIDELINES ARE EVEN A LOT MORE STRICT THAN WHAT WE HAVE, RIGHT? THEY EVEN WILL MENTION THE DEPTH OF HOW FAR MATERIALS SHOULD GO. THAT IS NOWHERE NEAR WHAT WE HAVE. [1:12:27] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** I ALSO WANTED TO SAY, WE DID OTHER RESEARCH ON CITIES THAT ARE NEIGHBORING US. OF EAGAN AND WOODBURY, THEY ALSO HAVE CLASSIFICATION OF MATERIALS LISTS THAT ARE MUCH MORE STRICT THAN WHAT WE HAVE. SO SOME OF THE MAIN REASONS THAT WE ARE DOING THIS, AGAIN, BUILDING DESIGN AND EXTERIOR MATERIALS HAVE AN EQUITY COMPONENT THAT RELATES DIRECTLY TO THE CITY'S GOALS OF ELIMINATING DISPARITIES BETWEEN DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES WITHIN THE CITY. [1:12:53] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** WITHOUT CLEAR DESIGN EXPECTATIONS THAT ARE CODIFIED, DEVELOPMENT IS OFTEN SHAPED BY LESS FORMAL AND MORE SUBJECTIVE PROCESSES AT THE LOCAL NEIGHBORHOOD LEVEL. SO WEALTHIER AND MORE ORGANIZED COMMUNITIES HAVE A STRONGER POLITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND HAVE MORE TIME TO BE ABLE TO DEDICATE TO LOCAL DEVELOPMENT. WHILE HISTORICALLY BE MORE SUCCESSFUL AT PUSHING HIGHER QUALITY DEVELOPMENTS IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS. [1:13:30] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** BY HAVING THESE GUIDELINES, WE ARE CREATING A BASELINE FOR ALL THE DESIGNS IN THE CITY IN ALL THE NEIGHBORHOODS. I ALSO WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE OTHER TWO GOALS THAT WE ARE FOCUSING ON, AGAIN, IS FOCUSING ON AFFORDABLE AND ACCESSIBLE HOUSING, WHILE NOT FORGETTING TO ALSO PROVIDE HIGH QUALITY PHYSICAL ENVIRONMENT FOR OUR RESIDENTS. [1:13:53] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** THIS RIGHT HERE SHOWS LANGUAGE FROM MINNEAPOLIS, 2040. AS YOU CAN SEE, A LOT OF THE REASONS WE ARE DOING THIS RIGHT ROOTED DIRECTLY IN POLICY OF GUIDING EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIALS IN THEIR DESIGN. I JUST WANT TO QUICKLY GO OVER SOME OF THE TOPICS THAT WERE DISCUSSED AT THE COMMENTING ON JUNE 15. SO ONE OF THE TOPICS DISCUSSED IS SUSTAINABILITY. I WANT TO JUST CLARIFY THAT WHAT WE ARE CONSIDERING TO BE SUSTAINABLE MATERIALS IN THIS DOCUMENT IS OUR MATERIALS THAT HAVE A GREATER LIFE SPAN FROM THE TIME THEY WERE INSTALLED TO THE TIME THEY HAVE TO BE REPLACED. [1:14:39] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** AND SO WE DO HAVE MORE EXTENSIVE REGULATIONS REGARDING SUSTAINABILITY, BUT THAT'S NOT FOUND IN THESE PARTICULAR GUIDELINES. THEY CAN BE FOUND IN THE ZONING CODE IN CHAPTER 540 IN THE BUILT FORM OVERLAY DISTRICTS FOR PREMIUMS AND CHAPTER 550 DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS IN PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENTS. THE OTHER TOPIC THAT WAS BROUGHT UP IS A SPECIFIC GUIDELINE WITHIN THE DOCUMENT THAT SAYS THE APPEARANCE OF MATERIALS OF THE REAR AND SIDE WALLS SHALL BE SIMILAR TO AND COMPATIBLE WITH THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. [1:15:24] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** GENERALLY, THE PRIMARY EXTERIOR MATERIALS INCORPORATED ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING MUST BE INCORPORATED ON ALL SITES. I WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT THIS IS TAKEN DIRECTLY OUT OF POLICY LANGUAGE FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, POLICY FIVE, ACTION STEP D. AND SOME OF THE REASON BEHIND THIS IS BECAUSE SINCE MINNEAPOLIS 2040 DOES ALLOW FOR A LARGER DEVELOPMENT ADJACENT TO LOWER DEVELOPMENTS, WE WANT TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR. INCREASING -- SO HAVING THE BUILDING MATERIALS COMPATIBLE ON ALL SIDES WILL HOPEFULLY CREATE A BETTER ENVIRONMENT FOR NEIGHBORING DEVELOPMENTS AND ALSO INCREASE LEVEL OF ACCEPTANCE OF MORE HOUSING OPTIONS IN NEIGHBORHOODS. [1:16:08] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** I THINK THIS IS A SIX-STORY BUILDING. IT IS CLEARLY VISIBLE ON THE BACKSIDE OF IT. LIKE, WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD NEXT TO A TWO-STORY HOME, ONE-STORY DEVELOPMENT. AND THE SAME THING WITH THIS IMAGE HERE. YOU CAN SEE, AGAIN, THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING IS JUST AS VISIBLE AS THIS SIDE. ANOTHER TOPIC WAS THAT OF STYLE AND DESIGN. I THINK -- I EXPRESSED CONCERN THAT THE GUIDE WOULD INCLUDE PARTICULAR STYLES OF DESIGN AND THEY COULD RESULT IN SIMILAR DESIGNS ACROSS THE CITY, WHICH IS NOT WHAT WE INTENDED. [1:16:50] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** WE WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE MANY TYPES OF DESIGN AND ALSO HAVE WRITTEN THE GUIDELINES IN A WAY TO -- THE DESIGNERS HAVE ENOUGH FREEDOM AND FLEXIBILITY TO DESIGN HOW THEY LIKE. WE ALSO WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE A SIMPLE PALATE OF MATERIALS, RATHER THAN PATCH WORK. [INDISCERNIBLE] ANOTHER TOPIC THAT WAS DISCUSSED. IT WAS PREVIOUSLY NOT ALLOWED AT ALL IN OUR TABLE. BUT WE HAVE CHANGED THAT AND UPDATED IT TO BE ALLOWABLE AT THE TOP OF THE BUILDINGS AND AS TRIM OR ACCENT MATERIAL. [1:17:41] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** LASTLY, I THINK THERE WAS A CONCERN THESE GUIDELINES WOULD SLOW DOWN THE APPLICATION PROCESS. AGAIN, THAT IS NOT OUR INTENT. ALSO, I WANT TO REITERATE THAT THESE GUIDELINES WERE LOOSELY BASED OFF OF THE 2014 GUIDELINES. A LOT OF IT IS NOT NEW, JUST THE TABLE. THESE ARE THE -- WITHIN THE GUIDELINES THEMSELVES. I'M GOING TO GO OVER IT. THE PURPOSE OF THE EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIAL GUIDELINES IS TO PROVIDE DESIGN GUIDANCE FOR MATERIALS TO ENSURE QUALITY LASTING, AND AFFORDABLE URBAN BUILT-IN ENVIRONMENT FOR ALL COMMUNITIES. [1:18:29] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** JUST REITERATING THE FACT THIS IS THE BASELINE. GUIDING PRINCIPLES, PRIORITIES AND GENERAL INTENT OF THE GUIDELINES IS TO ENSURE HIGH QUALITY AND DURABILITY. SUSTAINABILITY AND CLIMATE CONSCIOUS SELECTION OF MATERIALS. CONSISTENT AND EQUITABLE OUTCOMES. NEW DEVELOPMENT -- TO ENSURE NEW DEVELOPMENT IS COMPATIBLE AND COMPLEMENTARY TO EXISTING URBAN AND ARCHITECTURAL FABRIC. AND HUMAN SCALE ELEMENTS AND BUILDING ARTICULATION. [1:19:01] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** THIS IS THE TABLE THAT'S FOUND WITHIN THE BUILDING GUIDELINES. AND, AGAIN, IT BREAKS DOWN THE DIFFERENT EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIALS BASED ON WHERE THEY ARE ALLOWED IN A BUILDING, SO BREAKING IT DOWN INTO BUILDING BASE OR PODIUM; MIDDLE OR TOWER; THE TOP, A TRIM OR ACCENT MATERIAL. SOME OF THE MATERIALS HAVE SPECIFIC STANDARDS FOR THAT MATERIAL. SO, AGAIN, OVER THE YEARS CPED HAS DONE AND GATHERED A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF RESEARCH THAT HAS HELPED INFORM THESE GUIDELINES. [1:19:58] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** ALONG WITH ALL THIS RESEARCH, CPED HAS ALSO CONDUCTED A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL OUTREACH OVER THE YEARS FOR CONSENSUS AMONG OUR DEVELOPMENT PARTNERS, INCLUDING MEMBERS OF THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY, DESIGN PROFESSIONS AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING COLLEAGUES. WE THINK THAT WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING HERE REPRESENTS A FAIR AND COMPREHENSIVE ASSESSMENT OF THAT INPUT. SOME OF THE FACTORS THAT WE CONSIDERED AND RESEARCHED IN CONCLUDING WHICH MATERIALS MAY BE ALLOWED NEAREST TO THE PUBLIC REALM INCLUDING MATERIAL COMPOSITION, APPLICATION, AND ALSO APPEARANCE. [1:20:25] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** SO IN THE TABLE YOU CAN SEE THAT MATERIALS SUCH AS BRICK, CONCRETE, GLASS AND STONE MASONRY ARE MORE DESIRABLE AT THE BUILDING NEAR THE PUBLIC REALM AT THE BASE OR PODIUM BECAUSE THEY ARE SUBJECT TO MORE PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC AND ARE MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO WEAR AND TEAR. OTHER MATERIALS ARE MORE DESIRABLE WHERE THERE IS LESS PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC OR FURTHER AWAY FROM PUBLIC REALM LIKE THE MIDDLE OR TOP OF THE BUILDING. THIS WAY THEIR LIFE SPAN CAN BE ELONGATED AND THEY WON'T EXPERIENCE PROBLEMS WITH VANDALISM, SNOW REMOVAL EQUIPMENT AND CARS, ET CETERA. [1:21:07] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT THE TABLE DOESN'T APPLY TO ONE TO THREE UNIT RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS. AND THAT WOOD COMPOSITE MATERIALS ARE CONSIDERED TO BE A WOOD MATERIAL. LOOKING AT THE TABLE, BRICK IS ALLOWED EVERYWHERE ON A BUILDING. CMU IS ALLOWED AT THE BASE OF THE BUILDING AS TRIM OR ACCENT MATERIAL AND HAS AN EXTRA STANDARD A, WHICH IS THAT CMUs SHALL NOT COMPRISE MORE THAN 30% OF ANY BUILDING AND SHOULD NOT BE ADJACENT TO ANY PUBLIC STREET OR SIDEWALK. [1:21:45] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** MOVING ON, CONCRETE IS ALLOWED EVERYWHERE ON THE BUILDING. EIFS IS ALLOWED AT THE TOP. FIBER CEMENT IS ALLOWED AT MIDDLE, TOP OR TRIM OR ACCENT E. HERE WE HAVE THIS OTHER STANDARD B, WHICH IS THAT THE MATERIAL IS ALLOWABLE FOR USE AT THE BASE OF RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, TWO-AND-A-HALF STORIES OR LESS. AND ANY RESIDENTIAL WITH 4 TO 20 UNITS SO WE ARE TRYING TO ALLOW FOR MORE FLEXIBILITY FOR MISSING MIDDLE HOMES. WE HAVE GLASS ALLOWED EVERYWHERE. METAL PANELS, NOT ALLOWED AT THE BASE UNLESS IT IS THAT MISSING MIDDLE SCALE. [1:22:26] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** STONE MASONRY IS ALLOWED EVERYWHERE ON A BUILDING. STUCCO IS ALLOWED EVERYWHERE BUT THE BASE UNLESS IT IS A MISSING MIDDLE BUILDING. AND WOOD, SAME THING. AND LASTLY, WE HAVE VINYL SIDING THAT IS ALLOWED AS TRIM OR ACCENT MATERIAL. SO THE DEFINITIONS. LET ME READ THE DEFINITION. THE LOWER MOST STORIES OF THE BUILDING THAT ARE PRIMARY INTERFACE BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND PUBLIC REALM. THE BASE OF A TALL BUILDING IS ALSO KNOWN AS THE PODIUM. THE BASE INCLUDES THE FIRST STORY OF THE BUILDING AND CAN INCLUDE THE FIRST STORY UP TO THE SIXTH STORY DEPENDENT ON CONTEXT AND BUILDING HEIGHT. [1:23:07] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** SO WE HAVE GOTTEN A LOT OF COMMENTS ON THE BASE DEFINITION. AND WE'D LIKE TO CLARIFY THAT WE INTENTIONALLY LEFT IT VAGUE. SO PROVIDING FLEXIBILITY FOR DESIGNERS AND APPLICANTS TO DECIDE WHAT THE BASE IS. OF COURSE THE BASE OF A TWO-STORY IS VASTLY DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF A 30-STORY BUILDING AND COULD EVEN BE DIFFERENT ON BUILDINGS THE SAME HEIGHT DEPENDING ON WHAT THE STYLE OF DESIGN IS. SO IF WE ARE MORE CLEAR WITH THAT DEFINITION IT COULD RESULT IN TOO RESTRICTIVE OF GUIDELINES. AGAIN, WE WANT TO BE MORE FAVORABLE TO DIFFERENT STYLES OF DESIGN. WE WANT VARIETY AND WE WANT DESIGN PROFESSIONALS TO BE ABLE TO DESIGN AS THEY WOULD. [1:23:55] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** AND THEN MOVING ON TO THE MIDDLE OR TOWER DEFINITION. THE STORIES IN THE PART OF THE BUILDING THAT EXTENDS FROM THE BASE OF THE BUILDING TO THE TOP OF THE BUILDING. THE TOP DEFINITION, THE UPPERMOST STORIES OF THE BUILDING AND ROOFTOP MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT AND ENCLOSURES. HERE IS A DIAGRAM THAT SHOWS WHAT THE DIFFERENT BASE MIGHT LOOK LIKE ON LOW RISE, MID RISE AND HIGH-RISE. THE TOP IMAGE IS SHOWING WHERE SOME OF THE MORE DURABLE MATERIALS SHOULD BE CONCENTRATED AT. AGAIN, AT THE BASE AND NEAR TO THE PUBLIC REALM. [1:24:32] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** AND THEN THE LOWER THREE ARE WHERE LESS DURABLE MATERIALS MAY BE CONCENTRATED AWAY FROM PUBLIC REALM. HERE WE HAVE THIS LANGUAGE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE TABLE WHICH SAYS AUTHORIZED MATERIALS ARE SELECTED BASED ON DURABILITY AND COMPATIBILITY IN AN URBAN CONTEXT. APPLICANTS MAY DEMONSTRATE HOW NEW MATERIALS AND TECHNOLOGY NOT LISTED ABOVE MEET THE INTENT OF THE CITY'S SITE PLAN REVIEW REGULATIONS. AND FLEXIBILITY IN THE UTILIZATION OF MATERIALS MAY BE CONSIDERED THROUGH ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE IF THE DESIGN FULFILLS THE INTENT OF THE CITY'S ORDINANCE AND COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. [1:25:17] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** WE HAVE A LOT OF ROOM WORKED INTO THE GUIDELINES FOR FLEXIBILITY. THIS, FOR EXAMPLE IS A BUILDING THAT HAS METAL ON THE BASE AND THE REST OF THE BUILDING. THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF A BUILDING THAT WE MIGHT ALLOW ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE BECAUSE THEY -- AGAIN, THEY HAVE THE METAL ON A PLACE THAT IS NOT AS BUSY. DOESN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH WEAR AND TEAR OF PEDESTRIANS WALKING BY OR SNOW REMOVAL, VANDALISM, EVERYTHING. [1:26:00] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** CONTINUING TO THE REST OF THE GUIDANCE, BUILDINGS SHOULD NOT INCLUDE MORE THAN THREE EXTERIOR MATERIALS ON EACH ELEVATION, EXCLUDING WINDOWS, DOORS AND FOUNDATION MATERIALS. THE APPLICATION OF THE REAR AND SIDE WALLS SHALL COMPATIBLE TO THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. GENERALLY THE PRIMARY OF THE EXTERIOR INCORPORATED ON THE FRONT MUST BE INCORPORATED TO ALL SIDES. THAT IS FOUND IN POLICY LANGUAGE WE HAVE. [1:26:19] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** DESIGNS SHOULD INCORPORATE A STRONG AND GROUNDED BUILDING BASE. THE USE OF BRICK, CONCRETE, GLASS AND STONE MASONRY IS ENCOURAGED WHERE PRACTICAL AND ALL EXPOSURES AND ELEVATIONS FACING THE PUBLIC REALM. MATERIAL CHANGE SURE TO OCCUR AT ARCHITECTURAL RECESSES, SETBACKS, OR MASSING CHANGES. AND MATERIAL CHANGES SHOULD BE ARTICULATED THROUGH TRANSITIONAL DETAILING SUCH AS SUBSTANTIAL TRIM, COURSING OR REVEAL. [1:26:58] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** AND THE LAST TWO GUIDELINES ARE THAT MATERIALS THAT CREATE AN OIL CANNING EFFECT ARE DISCOURAGED. HERE IS AN IMAGE OF WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. AND LASTLY, HISTORIC PRESERVATION STANDARDS TAKE PRECEDENCE. THAT IS ALL AND -- THAT I HAVE FOR YOU TODAY. [1:27:18] **President Olson:** THANK YOU, MADEL. COMMISSIONER MEYER HAS A QUESTION. [1:27:30] **Commissioner Meyer:** THANK YOU. SO I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CHANGE IS FROM THIS STATUS QUO. I'M CONFUSED ABOUT IT. YOU'RE SAYING IT IS MORE FLEXIBLE THAN THE GUIDELINES WE HAVE HAD SINCE 2014, BUT WE HAVE THE BIG STACK OF PAPER FROM MATERIALS PRODUCERS AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE PROPOSING THESE RESTRICTIONS. IS THIS FORMALIZING RESTRICTIONS THAT HAS BEEN THERE IN THE ZONING CODE. I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY PEOPLE ARE SO OPPOSED IF WE ARE MAKING IT MORE FLEXIBLE FOR THEM. [1:28:13] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** IT IS A LOT MORE FLEXIBLE THAN IT USED TO BE. THERE USED TO BE PERCENTAGES ALLOWED ON DIFFERENT FACES OF THE BUILDING. AND ALSO, AGAIN -- AND THEN IN 2021 WE TRIED TO CODIFY THOSE STANDARDS OR THE GUIDELINES AND THEY WERE ALSO EVEN MORE RESTRICTIVE. SO AFTER HEARING THE FEEDBACK FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT DIFFERENT MATERIALS, WE HAVE ALLOWED EIFS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WAS NOT ALLOWABLE ON ANY SURFACE, ANY BUILDING WALL. NOW WE HAVE IT ALLOWABLE AT THE TOP OR AS TRIM. [1:28:58] **Commissioner Meyer:** YEAH, I REMEMBER THE PRESENTATION IN 2021 AND THIS IS DEFINITELY MORE FLEXIBLE THAN THAT, ESPECIALLY ON WOOD AND SMALLER BUILDINGS. BUT CAN YOU DO A COMPARE AND CONTRAST WITH THIS PROPOSAL AND THE 2014. WHERE IS THAT DIFFERENT? [1:29:20] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** UMM... BASICALLY, LIKE, APART FROM THE TABLE -- BECAUSE THE TABLE IS, LIKE, REALLY, LIKE, THE NEWEST THING THAT WAS ADDED. THE REST OF THE LANGUAGE, LIKE, UM, LIKE, THESE GUIDANCES FOR EXAMPLE THAT I READ AT THE END WAS ALL FROM 2014. UM, AND THEN, AGAIN, THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BEING THIS TABLE. [1:29:38] **Commissioner Meyer:** OKAY. SO I'LL LET THE PEOPLE WHO CAME HERE TONIGHT ELABORATE MORE ON WHAT IT IS ABOUT THE CHANGES THEY DON'T LIKE. BUT I DO HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION BEFORE THEY MOVE INTO THAT. CAN WE JUST GO OVER WHAT SUSTAINABILITY MEANS AGAIN? SO YOU SAID IN YOUR COMMENTS THAT IT'S ABOUT HOW LONG THE MATERIALS LAST. BUT THEN IT ALSO -- IN THE GUIDELINES -- YOU MENTIONED CLIMATE CONSCIOUSNESS. BUT I DIDN'T SEE A MENTION -- IN THE REPORT. HOW DOES CLIMATE CONSCIOUSNESS RELATE TO SUSTAINABILITY IN THIS CONTEXT? [1:30:22] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** IN THIS CONTEXT I WOULD SAY -- AGAIN, JUST TO CLARIFY, WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SUSTAINABLE MATERIALS IN THIS PARTICULAR DOCUMENT, IN THESE GUIDELINES, WE ARE CONSIDERING THOSE TO BE FROM THE TIME THEY ARE INSTALLED TO THE TIME THEY HAVE TO BE REPLACED. WE WANT MATERIALS THAT ARE GOING TO LAST LONGER, DON'T HAVE TO BE MAINTENANCED AS FREQUENTLY AS OTHER MATERIALS -- SO NOT SO MUCH HERE IN THESE GUIDELINES. [1:30:52] **Commissioner Campbell:** I HAVE A SIMILAR QUESTION. WE HAVE THIS ACADEMIC STUDY THAT HAS A VARIETY OF ACADEMIC DATA AND I DON'T KNOW IF I COULD EVER UNDERSTAND THIS. IT IS HERE. I'M TAKING THE PROVIDER'S WORD FOR IT THAT IN IT, IT HAS A VARIETY OF INFORMATION ABOUT THE SUSTAINABILITY OF SOME OF THESE MATERIALS. MY QUESTION, SIMILAR TO COMMISSIONER MEYER, IS WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT DURABILITY. AND I'M NOT A "WHAT" PERSON. I LEAVE THAT UP TO COMMISSIONER BAXLEY BECAUSE HE IS THE ARCHITECT WHO KNOWS ALL THESE THINGS. I'M LISTENING FOR THE WHY. WHY ARE WE CHANGING THESE THINGS. I HEARD A LOT OF ALIGNING OF BEST PRACTICES FROM OTHER CITIES, CONVERSATIONS WITH DESIGNERS, DEVELOPERS AND PLANNERS HELPED CONTRIBUTE TO THIS. [1:32:01] **Commissioner Campbell:** I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS. NUMBER ONE, WHAT DOES DURABILITY MEAN AND HOW ARE WE ASSESSING IT. AND NUMBER TWO, DID WE SOLICIT INPUT FROM ANYONE WHO CAN HELP US USE DATA TO DRIVE DECISIONS AS IT RELATES TO SOME OF THESE MATERIALS? [1:32:21] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** SO -- YEAH, I MEAN, WE HAVE, LIKE, I SAID, MET WITH ARCHITECTS AND DEVELOPERS AND THIS -- THE RESEARCH WE HAVE DONE HAS NOT JUST BEEN FOR THIS SET OF GUIDELINES. IT'S BEEN SINCE THE 2021 -- GETTING INPUT FROM THEM AND CHANGING IT ACCORDING TO RESEARCH THAT WE HAVE ALSO FOUND OF WHAT MATERIALS ARE MORE DURABLE IN TERMS OF, LIKE, THEIR MAINTENANCE AND ALSO, AGAIN, LIKE, THAT WEAR AND TEAR THAT WE HAVE ALSO SEEN. I MEAN, A LOT OF THIS IS ALSO BASED ON THE PLANNERS' EXPERIENCE, OVER 15 TO 20 YEARS, JUST WITH, LIKE, THE DAY-TO-DAY SCENE, WHAT IS SUCCESSFUL, WHAT IS MORE DURABLE HERE IN OUR CITY. [1:32:58] **President Olson:** COMMISSIONER KOSKI. [1:33:02] **Commissioner Koski:** THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION. PIGGYBACKING OFF SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS. I LIKE THE VISUAL OF THE CHART. I HEAR YOU SAY THAT EIFS WAS NOT ALLOWED. IF WE WERE TO HAVE A 2014 CHART, WOULD EIFS NOT BE ON THE CHART? RIGHT? **Madel Mouta (Staff):** CORRECT. **Commissioner Koski:** ARE THERE ANY OTHER MATERIALS ON HERE THAT HAVE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES SUCH AS THAT, OR ARE ADDED? IF YOU COULD JUST GO OVER -- I MEAN, I'M JUST THROWING THIS OUT HERE. WOULD THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO USE VINYL? WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN FOUR CHECKS BEFORE AND NOW THERE IS JUST ONE? COULD YOU JUST HELP US UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE? [1:33:43] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** A LOT OF THESE MATERIALS WERE ON THAT LIST. I DON'T HAVE THE LIST. IT WAS MORE RESTRICTIVE IN THE SENSE THAT WE'D REGULATE THE PERCENTAGE ON THE DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE BUILDING. [1:34:01] **Commissioner Koski:** OKAY, SO THE SIDES -- BESIDES THE PERCENTAGE, BECAUSE ALL THESE OTHER MATERIALS WERE ABLE TO BE USED PRIOR. [1:34:21] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** SO METAL AND WOOD ARE NOW ALSO MORE FLEXIBLE. EIFS, METAL AND WOOD ARE NOW MORE FLEXIBLE AND THE BROADER PERCENTAGE... YES. THERE IS ALSO -- I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER IF IT WAS THE 2014 GUIDELINES -- IT WAS THE 2021 THAT EVEN SPECIFIED THE THICKNESS OF MATERIAL. WE ARE TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM THOSE VERY, VERY DETAILED REGULATIONS AND PROVIDING A BASELINE FOR THE DESIGN. [1:35:05] **President Olson:** COMMISSIONER MEYER. [1:35:10] **Commissioner Meyer:** ONE MORE CLARIFYING QUESTION ABOUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT IT. THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF HOW THE BUILDING MATERIALS AFFECTS CLIMATE. ONE IS THE EMBODIED CARBON POLLUTION. SO, LIKE, HOW MUCH IS UPFRONT IN THE MATERIALS THEMSELVES FOR THE PRODUCTION OF THE MATERIAL. AND THEN THERE IS THE OPERATIONAL CLIMATE IMPACT, WHICH IS THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY. SO DOES BUILDING CODE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE EMBODIED CARBON POLLUTION, OR JUST ABOUT THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND OPERATIONAL CARBON? [1:35:36] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** I BELIEVE IT IS ENERGY EFFICIENCY. [1:35:41] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. IS THIS A LEGISLATIVE ACTION? SO WE ARE ADVISING COUNCIL? MY OTHER QUESTION IS, LIKE YOU SAID, ALL FOUR SIDES IS IN POLICY. YOU'RE SAYING THAT WOULD HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT BEFORE WE EVEN TALK ABOUT IT. I THINK MAYBE JUST FOR THE BENEFIT OF EVERYONE IN THE ROOM BEFORE WE START THE PUBLIC HEARING, WOULD TALK ABOUT THE ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE PROCESS AND HOW SOMEONE COULD VARY FROM WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERE AND WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE? [1:36:36] **Madel Mouta (Staff):** THAT LANGUAGE IS ALSO FOUND ON THE GUIDELINES THEMSELVES. SO BASICALLY AN APPLICANT COULD PROPOSE ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE BY DEMONSTRATING A NEW MATERIAL OR THAT MATERIAL SHOULD BE ALLOWED ON THE BASE. FOR EXAMPLE, I HIGHLIGHTED THIS. THEY COULD PROPOSE ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE AND GET THAT. [1:37:06] **President Olson:** CAN YOU EXPLAIN AN ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE? WHAT THAT MEANS JUST FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM. [1:37:25] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** I CAN ANSWER THAT. ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE IS SOMETHING WHERE YOU CAN ASK FOR FLEXIBILITY FROM OTHER SITE PLAN REVIEW CHAPTERS AND IT DOESN'T REQUIRE AN ADDITIONAL LAND USE APPLICATION. TYPICALLY WHEN YOU DEVIATE FROM AN ORDINANCE, YOU ARE APPLYING FOR A VARIANCE. WHEN IT COMES TO SITE PLAN REVIEW, IT IS SOMETHING THAT THE APPLICANT CAN ASK FOR THROUGH THE SITE PLAN REVIEW APPLICATION PROCESS AND THEN THE COMMISSION CAN GRANT IT BASED ON FINDINGS SUCH AS -- IS THERE SOMETHING HERE THAT MAKES IT IMPRACTICAL FOR THEM TO COMPLY WITH THE LETTER OF THE LAW ON THAT? [1:38:03] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** ARE THEY DOING SOMETHING AS AN ALTERNATIVE THAT DOESN'T MEET THE LANGUAGE, BUT MEETS INTENT OF THE CODE? SO YOU OFTEN SEE THOSE -- I'M SURE YOU SAW SEVERAL TONIGHT IN REPORTS IN FRONT OF YOU FOR THINGS LIKE SHRUBS OR PERHAPS SOMEONE ISN'T EXACTLY COMPLYING WITH THE WINDOW PERCENTAGE, BUT THERE ARE SOME WINDOWS THAT WE ARE NOT COUNTING BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO HIGH OFF THE GROUND. THOSE SORTS OF THINGS ARE VERY COMMON AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS DEFINITELY MORE FLEXIBLE THAN ASKING FOR A VARIANCE. [1:38:41] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. I'M NOT SEEING ANYMORE QUESTIONS FROM STAFF. THANK YOU, MADEL. SO I WILL CONTINUE WITH THE PUBLIC HEARING. I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. I GUESS THE CITY IS THE APPLICANT, SO THERE IS NO APPLICANT TO SPEAK. BUT IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO COME UP TO THE PODIUM AND SPEAK, YOU CAN COME FORWARD. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD AND PROCEED WITH YOUR COMMENTS. AGAIN, EVERYONE WILL HAVE TWO MINUTES AND IT WILL BE ON THE CLOCK. [1:39:14] **Joe (Laborers Local 563):** I KNOW I WAS AT LEAST SECOND ON THE LIST. I'M JOE, THE BUSINESS MANAGER AT LABORERS LOCAL NUMBER 563. OUR NEW UNION HALL WILL BE ON THE EAST SIDE, WARD SIX. WE REPRESENT 11,000 MEMBERS IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA AND NORTH DAKOTA. HERE TO SPEAK ON THIS AS QUICKLY AS I CAN. I BELIEVE WE SENT INFORMATION EARLIER TODAY TO MADEL AND SOME OF THE STAFF. A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT YOU GUYS MAY HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU OR WILL SOON GET, WE MADE A MISTAKE WHEN WE FIRST SENT IT AND DIDN'T HAVE THE ATTACHMENTS, WHICH IS ON US. [1:39:48] **Joe (Laborers Local 563):** JUST TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES. WE ARE LABORERS, NOT COMPUTER GUYS. I WANTED TO TOUCH ON A FEW THINGS IN THE 2040 PLAN AND THINGS BROUGHT UP IN THE LAST MEETING. AFFORDABLE, CARBON INTENSITY AND DURABILITY, SEPARATELY FROM THE JOBS WE'D LOSE IF THIS HAPPENED. SPECIFICALLY AROUND EIFS, AS WELL AS STUCCO. SO ON THE AFFORDABILITY SIDE OF IT, WE HAVE RS MEANS WHO DID A QUICK STUDY, THE END OF QUARTER ONE HERE IN 2023. IT IS VERY ACCURATE OR I SHOULD SAY VERY TIMELY. [1:40:22] **Joe (Laborers Local 563):** IT SHOWS THAT EIFS IS A VERY AFFORDABLE OPTION, ESPECIALLY FOR THE AESTHETICS THAT IT PROVIDES IN COMPARISON TO CONCRETE, MASONRY, INSULATED CONCRETE PANELS, GLAZING ON STEEL CURTAIN WALLS. IT IS MUCH MORE AFFORDABLE. SOME OF THAT INFORMATION IS IN THERE. AS YOU TALK ABOUT DISPARITIES AND TRYING NOT TO INCREASE THEM WITH THE 2040 PLAN, YOU HAVE NICE AESTHETICALLY PLEASING TO THE EYE PRODUCT YOU CAN INSTALL ON THE EXTERIOR OF A BUILDING AS A CLADDING SYSTEM. THAT IS MUCH MORE AFFORDABLE THAN OTHER SIMILAR PRODUCTS FOR THE AESTHETIC YOU PROVIDE. IT IS NOT A STRUCTURAL SYSTEM IN THE SENSE IT IS SUPPOSED TO HOLD UP THE BUILDING. IT IS CLADDING SO IT IS FOR INSULATION PURPOSES, MAKING SURE THERE ISN'T WATER INTRUSION AND LOOKS AND AESTHETICS. I GOT A LONG WAYS TO GO. [1:41:29] **President Olson:** SORRY. I HAVE THE LIST NOW. WERE YOU JOE? IS THAT -- IS YOUR NAME JOE? UP NEXT IS CONRAD ZABOWSKI. [1:41:34] **Conrad Zabowski (Public Speaker):** HELLO, THIS IS THE WISEMAN ART MUSEUM THAT YOU CAN SEE IS FULL METAL CLADDING. IT WAS BUILT IN 1993, EXACTLY 30 YEARS AGO, WHICH IS HOW OLD I AM TOO. SO WE HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR 30 YEARS. AND I WANT TO GIVE AS AN EXAMPLE -- THERE IS MANY EXAMPLES IN THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS, INCLUDING THE APARTMENT BUILDING IN THE NORTH LOOP, AND ALSO THE GUTHRIE THEATER AND OTHER BUILDINGS THAT ARE ALL METAL PANELLING, ALL THE WAY TO THE GRASS OR TO THE SIDEWALK. [1:42:08] **Conrad Zabowski (Public Speaker):** AND I THINK WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE DURABILITY, THINGS LIKE THAT, IT'S INTERESTING TO ME THAT GLASS AS A MATERIAL IS ALLOWED ON EVERY PIECE OF THE BUILDING, EVEN THOUGH GLASS IS LEAST DURABLE OF ALL OF THEM. I KNOW FOR SURE BECAUSE MY BUILDING RECENTLY HAD GLASS AT THE BASE OF OUR BUILDING BE BROKEN AND TWO BIKES WERE STOLEN LAST NIGHT. SO THAT HAPPENS A LOT IN MINNEAPOLIS. NOT THAT I DON'T LIKE GLASS, BUT WISH IT WAS A LITTLE STRONGER. [1:42:55] **Conrad Zabowski (Public Speaker):** SO I THINK -- I WAS TALKING TO SOME OTHER PEOPLE WHO WISH THEY COULD BE HERE TONIGHT TO SPEAK AS WELL, BUT GIVEN JUST THAT THESE BUILDING MATERIAL DECISIONS ARE AN AESTHETIC DECISION, ALL THE BUILDING MATERIALS ON THE CHART ARE ALLOWED ON SOME OF THE BUILDING. SO IF THERE IS A HURRICANE -- RIGHT -- WHICH HOPEFULLY WON'T HAPPEN IN MINNEAPOLIS, BUT THERE'S ALLOWANCE ON SOME PART OF THE BUILDING. IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF WHETHER THEY ARE STORM RESISTANT, HEAT OR COLD RESISTANT. IT IS A QUESTION OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. I THINK THIS IS MORE OF A QUESTION ON THE ACTIVATION OF THE STREET. I KNOW THERE IS CONVERSATIONS HERE ABOUT HOW WE CAN MAKE OUR BUILDINGS BETTER FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I THINK WE SHOULD FOCUS ON STREET ACTIVATION, AND NOT ON WHAT COLORS AND NUMBERS OF PANELS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THANK YOU. [1:43:35] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. UP NEXT IS TROY COX. [1:43:40] **Troy Cox (Laborers Local 563):** GOOD EVENING, MY NAME IS TROY COX, WITH LOCAL 563, A LONG TIME MEMBER OF 27 YEARS WITH CONSTRUCTION IN GENERAL LABORS. I'M HERE TO TALK ABOUT HOW IT IS GOING TO AFFECT OUR CONTRACTORS AND WORKERS. WE GOT ABOUT 25 EIFS CONTRACTORS WITH AN AVERAGE OF TWO WORKERS. THAT PUTS US AT 50 WORKERS' JOBS AND CAREERS. THE STUCCO, WE HAVE ABOUT 35 CREWS WITH FIVE MEMBERS PER CREW. THAT IS ABOUT 175 WORKERS. IF YOU ADD THAT UP, COMES TO JUST A ROUGH ESTIMATE OF 60 CONTRACTORS. 225 FAMILIES. WITH THAT BEING SAID, THESE AREN'T JUST MEMBERS' JOBS. THEY ARE CAREERS. THESE GUYS GO TO WORK EVERYDAY IN THE CITY. THEY PUT A BEAUTIFUL PRODUCT UP. I WANT YOU GUYS TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE MOVE FORWARD, JUST THINK ABOUT THE CAREERS, THE FAMILIES AND OR WORKERS. THANK YOU. [1:44:37] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. STEVE P. [1:44:43] **Steve Pettersen (Public Speaker):** HI, MY NAME IS STEVE PETTERSEN. I'M THE FORMER DIRECTOR OF MINNESOTA LATH AND PLASTER BUREAU. I WROTE TWO ARTICLES ON EIFS THAT ARE ATTACHED TO THE STAFF REPORT. I HOPE YOU HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO READ THEM. WITH THAT SAID, I'D LIKE TO GO THROUGH SOMETHING IN THE STAFF REPORT I FOUND DISTURBING: QUOTE, "CPED CONDUCTING A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF RESEARCH AND OUTREACH TO ESTABLISH THE BASIS FOR THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT IN PARTNERSHIP REQUEST STAKEHOLDERS FROM THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY, AFFORDABLE HOUSING PARTNERS, DESIGN PROFESSIONALS AND MATERIAL MANUFACTURERS." [1:45:25] **Steve Pettersen (Public Speaker):** MINNESOTA LATH AND PLASTER BUREAU HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE 1953. WE HAVE REPRESENTED THE SIGNATORY UNION LATHING AND PLASTERING CONTRACTORS ON MANY TECHNICAL ISSUES. NO ONE REACHED OUT TO US. MINNESOTA DRY WALL AND PLASTER ASSOCIATION WAS NEVER CONTACTED. PLASTERS LOCAL 265 WAS NEVER CONTACTED. PLASTERS AND CEMENT MASONS HAVE A WONDERFUL TRAINING FACILITY. I'D LIKE TO TAKE YOU THERE. IT WAS NEVER CONTACTED. ALSO IN THE ROOM ARE TWO PLASTER AND SUPPLY DISTRIBUTORS. NO ONE FROM STAFF REACHED OUT TO THEM. [1:46:02] **Steve Pettersen (Public Speaker):** THERE IS ALSO AN EIFS MANUFACTURER WITH CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS IN -- NO ONE FROM STAFF REACHED OUT TO THEM EITHER. MINNESOTA BUILDING TRADES COUNCIL WAS NOT AWARE OF THIS ISSUE UNTIL WE BROUGHT IT TO THEIR ATTENTION. IN CLOSING, CPED STAFF HAS BEEN WORKING ON ZONING CODE TEXT AMENDMENT SINCE 2021. THEY PUT THIS AMENDMENT OUT LATE THURSDAY LAST WEEK WHICH ALLOWS US BASICALLY ONE-AND-A-HALF BUSINESS DAYS TO REBUT IT. I ASK YOU HOW IS THIS SIGNIFICANT OUTREACH? WITH THAT SAID, I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST THAT ANY VOTE ON THIS AMENDMENT BE POSTPONED UNTIL IT CAN BE FAIRLY AND OBJECTIVELY ADDRESSED. THANKS. [1:46:35] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. DOUG SWEET. IS THERE A DOUG? WE'LL COME BACK TO IT. STEVEN DOGGETT. SORRY. [1:46:51] **Steven Doggett (Public Speaker):** GOOD AFTERNOON. I HAVE ALREADY SUBMITTED A DOCUMENT FOR YOUR -- PUBLIC RECORD. AND I'LL JUST FOCUS ON A FEW POINTS. THEN MY RECOMMENDATIONS. FIRST OF ALL, STAFF REPORT HAS PUT MUCH EMPHASIS ON THE DEFINITION OR THE TOPIC OF DURABILITY. HOWEVER, IT IS NOT DEFINED ONCE IN THE STAFF DOCUMENT. NOT ONCE. MOREOVER, THE EXPECTATION FOR DURABILITY ARE NOT CITED. THAT IS IMPORTANT. THE INDUSTRY PRACTICE IS THAT ANY TYPE OF EXPRESSION OF DURABILITY IS EXPRESSED ON THE BASIS OF SERVICE LIFE. [1:47:24] **Steven Doggett (Public Speaker):** WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT MEANS REALLY HOW LONG WILL A BUILDING MATERIAL LAST ASSUMING IT IS MAINTAINED IN A CERTAIN WAY. THAT IS NOT EXPRESSED IN THIS DOCUMENT. EIFS, MODERN EIFS HAS A SERVICE LIFE OF OVER 50 YEARS. THAT'S IN LINE WITH INDUSTRY PRACTICE AND STANDARDS FOR LONG LIFE BUILDINGS. THESE ARE BUILDINGS THAT HAVE LONG LIFE. WHICH IS ALSO GREATER THAN 50 YEARS. THIRDLY, EIFS, THE SERVICE LIFE OF EIFS HAS A SERVICE LIFE THAT EQUALS OR EXCEEDS THREE BUILDING MATERIALS THAT ARE CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED INCLUDING WOOD, COMPOSITE WOOD AND FIBER CEMENT. [1:48:10] **Steven Doggett (Public Speaker):** SO WHAT I'M RECOMMENDING HERE -- I WANT ONE MORE POINT. THE POINT WAS BROUGHT UP EARLY TODAY REGARDING THE HEIGHT OF WHERE EIFS IS CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED. RIGHT NOW IT IS AUTHORIZED ONLY AT THE TOP OF THE BUILDING. IRONICALLY THAT IS THE PLACE OF THE BUILDING, LOCATION OF THE BUILDING RECEIVING HIGHEST EXPOSURE. BY THAT LOGIC, THAT EIFS SHOULD BE INSTALLS THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE BUILDING. NOT JUST AT THE HIGHEST PART. AGAIN, THAT IS THE MOST ARDUOUS PART OF ANY BUILDING. HEIGHT. MY RECOMMENDATION IS ELIMINATE ALL RESTRICTIONS. I'M RECOMMENDING POSTPONE OF THESE PROCESSES SO WE CAN REVIEW WHAT'S NOT BEEN DISCLOSED TODAY. THANK YOU. [1:48:58] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. MARCUS K. [1:49:10] **Marcus Klaus (Public Speaker):** GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. I'M MARCUS KLAUS. WE MAKE FIBER CEMENT CLADDING. I WANT TO SAY AT THE OUTSET THAT WE ARE SUPPORTIVE TO UPDATE THE GUIDELINES. WE THINK THEY ARE BETTER THAN WHAT THEY WERE IN 2014. WE DO HAVE A CLARIFICATION THAT WE'LL REQUEST, BUT JUST MAYBE TO FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF WITH JAMES HARDIE BUILDING PRODUCTS. WE MAKE FIBER CEMENT, CLADDING MATERIALS IN THE FORM OF PLANKS, PANELS, IN THE FORM OF MANY TYPES AND SHAPES OF MATERIALS, ET CETERA. TRIM BOARD. WE HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE 1990. [1:50:12] **Marcus Klaus (Public Speaker):** THERE ARE EXAMPLES OF FIBER CEMENT INSTALLATIONS IN THE GREATER MINNEAPOLIS AREA HAVE BEEN INSTALLED SINCE 2000. SO WE HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF BEING USED IN THIS AREA, JUST PERHAPS NOT ON AS MUCH MULTIFAMILY BUILDINGS IN THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS AS WE THINK WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. NOW, I'M A COMPANY REPRESENTATIVE, BUT -- IN TERMS OF DURABILITY, DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. FEMA RATES OUR PRODUCT AS HIGHLY FLOOD RESISTANT, ITS HIGHEST RATING. IT IS ONE OF THE APPROVED MATERIALS THAT ARE BUILT IN FLOOD ZONES. [1:50:44] **Marcus Klaus (Public Speaker):** WE ARE RATED BY CALIFORNIA FIRE MARSHAL FOR USE IN WOODLAND URBAN INTERFACE ZONES, SO WILDFIRES OUT IN CALIFORNIA. WE ARE RATED BY MIAMI DADE COUNTY FOR HIGH VELOCITY HURRICANE ZONES. SO IT'S -- OTHER ENTITIES HAVE LOOKED AT OUR MATERIAL AND DETERMINED IT IS VERY DURABLE. WE RECOGNIZE STAFF HAS THAT PERHAPS ON THE BASE OF A BUILDING WHERE THERE IS MORE STREET TRAFFIC AND IMPACT, ET CETERA, THAT SOME ADDITIONAL DURABILITY MIGHT BE REQUIRED. OUR QUESTION IS ABOUT THE DEFINITION OF THE BASE. CURRENTLY THE DEFINITION OF THE BASE IS UP TO -- THE FIRST FLOOR UP TO SIX FLOORS. THAT IS VERY VAGUE. [1:51:30] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, WE'LL GO ONE MORE TIME TO DOUG SWEET. ALL RIGHT. BILL EAGAN. [1:51:47] **Bill Egan (Public Speaker):** OKAY, I'M BILL EAGAN, PRINCIPAL OF BILL EAGAN CONSULTING, WE SPECIALIZE IN BUILDINGS AND CONSTRUCTION PRODUCTS. I HAVE WORKED MORE THAN 35 YEARS IN TECHNICAL AND ENGINEERING ROLES FOR EIFS AND STUCCO MANUFACTURERS. I WAS ON THE JULY 6 CALL WITH CPED STAFF AND HOPEFULLY THAT GAVE ADDITIONAL INSIGHT INTO EIFS. IT WAS GREAT TO SEE THE LATEST BUILDING MATERIAL GUIDELINES RECOGNIZE EIFSES, BUT LIMITS USE ON TOPS AND ACCESS TO BUILDINGS. MOST CAN BE USED IN BUILDING TOWER AREAS AS WELL AS LOWER PORTIONS. [1:52:28] **Bill Egan (Public Speaker):** THE REASON CPED STAFF HAS CONCERNS ABOUT ATTACHMENT, DIRECTLY TO FACADES WITH OTHER MEANS FOR EXIT. CLEARLY THIS IS BASED ON ORIGINAL BARRIER SYSTEMS WHICH ARE ON THAT HANDOUT I PROVIDED. IT SHOWS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE EIFS SYSTEMS AND EIFSES WITH DRAINAGE SYSTEMS. I SHOULD POINT OUT THE EIFS WITH DRAINAGE SYSTEMS INCLUDE WATER RESISTANT BARRIER OR PEOPLE REFER TO IT AS TYVEK. IN ADDITION TO MEANS WITH DRAINAGE, SIMILAR TO OTHER CLADDINGS, THEY ARE ALLOWED UNDER THE BUILDING MATERIAL GUIDELINES SUCH AS BRICK, STUCCO, FIBER, CEMENT AND WOOD. [1:53:21] **Bill Egan (Public Speaker):** SO IT'S UNCLEAR WHY EIFS WITH DRAINAGE WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ON TYPES OF BUILDING MIDDLES AND TOPS WHEN IT IS SO IN MANY OTHER RESPECTS. EIFS WITH DRAINAGE PROVIDES MANY BENEFITS AND SHOULD BE ALLOWED AS A MINIMUM FOR THE SAME AREAS FOR WHICH STUCCO IS ALLOWED. I SHOW THAT ON A CHART. IN THAT CHART YOU CAN SEE I HAVE PUT A LITTLE CHECK MARK IN SO THAT WOULD BE SIMILAR TO STUCCO. AND I HAVE MADE THE CORRECTION THAT IT IS NOT EIFS. IT IS EIFS WITH DRAINAGE SYSTEMS. I'D BE GLAD TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. [1:53:48] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, STEPHAN SEARS. [1:53:58] **Stephan Sears (Public Speaker):** GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS STEPHAN SEARS, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF EIMA (EIFS Industry Members Association), A NON LOAD BEARING EXTERIOR CLADDING USED IN THE U.S. SINCE THE 1960s. THANK YOU PER THE OPPORTUNITY AND THANKS, TOO, FOR NO LONGER TOTALLY DISALLOWING EIFS IN THESE GUIDELINES. EIFS HAVE BEEN PART OF INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE FOR TWO DECADES AND HAVE CONTINUALLY EVOLVED. WHILE THE ORIGINAL SEALED EIFS ARE RARELY USED NOW, TODAY'S EIFS WITH DRAINAGE IS TRUSTED FOR ALL KINDS OF BUILDING APPLICATIONS, STYLES AND GEOGRAPHIES. [1:54:37] **Stephan Sears (Public Speaker):** WE APPRECIATE THE TITLE 20 AMENDMENT IS NOT A TOTAL BAN, BUT IT WOULD SEVERELY LIMIT THE USE OF EIFS COMPARED TO LEGACY CLADDINGS. AS PRESENTED THE CITY'S EIFS RESTRICTION WOULD OBSTRUCT THE CITY'S ABILITY TO ADDRESS MINNESOTA'S NEW COMMERCIAL BUILDING CODE THAT CALLS FOR AN 80% REDUCTION IN GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS. EIFS ARE MUCH BETTER SUITED TO DEAL WITH THESE NEW REQUIREMENTS THAN LEGACY CLADDINGS. WHY? BECAUSE THE R VALUE OF THE EIFS INSULATION, WHICH IS THE MEASURE FOR A BUILDING'S HEAT EFFICIENCY, IS 20 TIMES GREATER OR MORE THAN BRICK, STONE, CONCRETE, STUCCO AND PLAIN GLASS. [1:55:15] **Stephan Sears (Public Speaker):** EIFS ARE ALSO A MORE AFFORDABLE OPTION. ON A NEW MINNEAPOLIS APARTMENT BUILDING, THE INSTALLED COSTS OF BRICK IS 60% GREATER THAN INSTALLED COST OF EIFS. WE ASK THAT EIFS WITH DRAINAGE BE ALLOWED ON THE SAME BUILDING LEVELS THAT STUCCO IS OR DELAY ACTION ON THESE GUIDELINES FOR FURTHER STUDY. RELEGATION OF EIFS WOULD NOT ONLY HAMPER THE CITY'S CARBON REDUCTION EFFORTS. IT WOULD ALSO INCREASE COSTS FOR MINNEAPOLIS' BUILDING OWNERS, CONTRACTORS AND TENANTS. THANK YOU. [1:55:46] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. BARRY LASSITER. [1:55:55] **Barry Lassiter (Public Speaker):** GOOD EVENING, THANK YOU. MY NAME IS BARRY LASSITER. I'M THE TECHNICAL SERVICE MANAGER FOR SIKA CORPORATION REPRESENTING SYNERGY, FINE STONE, BASED IN -- MINNESOTA. I HAVE BEEN WITH SYNERGY AND SIKA CORPORATION FOR 32 YEARS. I WORKED OUT OF THE LOCAL OFFICE ALONG WITH 95 OTHER COLLEAGUES SUPPORTING THE EIFS INDUSTRY. EIFS HAS HAD A LONG HISTORY OF OFFERING DURABLE, AFFORDABLE, SUSTAINABLE AND AESTHETICALLY PLEASING BUILDINGS FOR OVER 100 YEARS. BENEFITS OF EIFS: NUMEROUS CODE COMPLIANCES, ENERGY EFFICIENCIES, SUSTAINABLE, AESTHETIC VERSATILITY AND COST EFFECTIVE. [1:56:52] **Barry Lassiter (Public Speaker):** IT CAN DELIVER ALMOST ANY DESIRED LOOK AND FEEL AT A FRACTION OF THE COST. IT IS DURABLE, AN ENGINEERING COMPOSITE CLADDING THAT CAN BE USED TO CREATE HIGHLY DURABLE SYSTEMS. WATER AND AIR MANAGEMENT: EIFS MANAGE AIR AND WATER THROUGH THE AIR AND WATER RESISTIVE BARRIER AND ADHESIVELY ATTACHED EXTERIOR INSULATION BOARD IS ATTACHED WITH DRAINAGE CHANNELS. THEY EFFECTIVELY ELIMINATE MOISTURE BEFORE IT HAS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENTER THE WALL CAVITY. EIFS, WITH ITS MANY BENEFITS, HELPS DELIVER HIGH PERFORMANCE AESTHETICALLY PLEASING BUILDINGS. [1:58:02] **Barry Lassiter (Public Speaker):** AS A MANUFACTURER OF EIFS PRODUCTS BASED IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, IF AFFORDABLE SUSTAINABLE AND AESTHETICALLY VERSATILE BUILDINGS ARE PRIORITIES FOR THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS, THE REQUESTED ACTION IS TO ALLOW EIFS AT A MINIMUM WITH DRAINAGE IN THE MIDDLE TOWERS SECTION SIMILAR TO STUCCO OR DELAY THE DECISION UNTIL ALL THE DATA HAS BEEN REVIEWED. THANK YOU. [1:58:10] **President Olson:** ANNE LUTZ. [1:58:13] **Anne Lutz (Public Speaker):** GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M ANNE LUTZ, A LIFELONG MINNEAPOLIS RESIDENT. I CURRENTLY LIVE ACROSS THE RIVER AT LA RIVE CONDOS. MY HUSBAND, TIM, AND I LAUNCHED A CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS DISTRIBUTION COMPANY, THE LUTZ COMPANY, OVER 40 YEARS AGO. WE ARE THE MINNESOTA EXCLUSIVE DISTRIBUTORS OF -- ONE OF THE leading EIFS SYSTEMS IN THE COUNTRY. OUR CUSTOMERS ARE PLASTERING AND DRY WALL CONTRACTORS OF ALL SIZES FROM TWO-PERSON CREWS TO LARGE DRY WALL COMPANIES WITH NUMEROUS SMALL BUSINESSES IN BETWEEN. MANY ARE SECOND AND THIRD GENERATION COMPANIES DEDICATED TO THE PLASTERING TRADE AND ALSO PROUD UNION MEMBERS. [1:58:59] **Anne Lutz (Public Speaker):** EIFS IS NOT A NEW PRODUCT IN MINNESOTA. OUR DATABASE OF PROJECTS GOES BACK TO 1983. WE HAVE SUPPLIED EIFS ON 25,000 PROJECTS IN MINNESOTA TODAY, REPRESENTING MANY MILLIONS OF SQUARE FEET. IN MINNEAPOLIS, CLADDING IS INSTALLED ON OVER 1,000 BUILDINGS INCLUDING PUBLIC SCHOOLS, FIRE STATIONS, CHURCHES, HEALTH CARE FACILITIES, HOTELS AND RETAIL BUILDINGS. OLDER DOWNTOWN PROJECTS -- THERE IS TOO MANY TO NAME -- BUT A FEW ARE -- INCLUDE THE 22 STORY LOEWS MINNEAPOLIS HOTEL. MINNEAPOLIS CONVENTION CENTER, TWO PHASES. 20,000 SQUARE FEET THERE. AND THE TEN-STORY PEOPLE SERVING PEOPLE SHELTER AT THIRD AND PORTLAND, COMPLETED IN 2002. [1:59:59] **Anne Lutz (Public Speaker):** I WANT TO CONFIRM THAT WE CONTINUE TO SUPPLY EIFS IN MINNEAPOLIS TODAY DESPITE ANY RULES WHICH ARE CONFUSING TO US. WE DO SUPPLY EIFS PROJECTS. I CAN THINK OF ONE RIGHT NOW IN THE NORTH LOOP. ONE IN SOUTH MINNEAPOLIS ON MINNEHAHA AVENUE. IT IS HAPPENING. PLEASE CONSIDER THE ADOPTION OF THIS AMENDMENT WILL HAVE A SERIOUS ECONOMIC IMPACT ON MANY SMALL BUSINESSES AND EMPLOYERS THAT ARE DEDICATED TO THE LOCAL EIFS INDUSTRY. THANK YOU. [2:00:30] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, I THINK IT IS SANDY THIEL MAYBE. [2:00:39] **Chuck Thiel (Public Speaker):** MY NAME IS CHUCK THIEL AND I WORK FOR MY WIFE WHO OWNS THE COMPANY, AMERICAN CONSTRUCTION SUPPLY. I'M JUST FOLLOWING MY COMPETITOR, MR. AND MRS. LUTZ THERE. WE AGREE ON ONE THING. THAT THING IS THAT THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY REINSTRUCTIONS ON EIFS IN THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS. I FIND IT RATHER IRONIC WE ARE SITTING IN THIS COUNCIL ROOM AND YOU LOOK AROUND AT THE WALLS AND ORNATENESS OF THE WORK THAT WAS DONE IN HERE BY PLASTERERS AND NOW YOU'RE LOOKING TO SQUASH THEIR TRADE. AND I SPEAK FOR ALL OF MY CUSTOMERS AND THEIRS AS WELL, THAT WE HAVE A PROVEN TRACK RECORD. [2:01:18] **Chuck Thiel (Public Speaker):** THIS WHOLE DURABILITY ISSUE, EVERYBODY WANTS TO KNOW WHAT THE DEFINITION OF DURABILITY IS. IF YOU GIVE US THAT, WE CAN SHOW YOU THAT WE MEET THAT. DAY IN AND DAY OUT. SO THAT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU. [2:02:00] **President Olson:** MARCUS. THAT IS EVERYONE ON OUR LIST. IF THERE IS ANYONE WHO DIDN'T SIGN UP WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, I'LL HAVE YOU LINE UP AT THE PODIUM AND YOU CAN GO AHEAD. [2:02:08] **Jim Snyder (Attorney):** THANK YOU, CHAIR. MY NAME IS JIM SNYDER WITH LARKIN HOFFMAN ATTORNEYS AND WE REPRESENT THE MATERIAL ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA. OUR MEMBERS INCLUDE LOUISIANA PACIFIC, WHICH MANUFACTURES LP SMARTSIDE SIDING AND TRIM. WE HAVE REAL CONCERNS WITH THE DEFINITION OF BASE, WHICH IS ENTIRELY AMBIGUOUS. AS IT'S DRAFTED, IT COULD BE ONE OR SIX STORIES DEPENDING ON THE CONTEXT. YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST US. AND THAT IS JUST FAR TOO AMBIGUOUS. WE'D LIKE TO RESTRICT THAT. WE'D LIKE TO KEEP IT AT ONE STORY FOR MID-STORY BUILDINGS AND TWO FOR HIGHER BUILDINGS. [2:03:06] **Jim Snyder (Attorney):** WE HAVE BROADER CONCERNS OVER THE RESTRICTIONS PLACED ON WOOD-BASED PRODUCTS. THE GUIDELINES RESTRICT ANY WOOD BASE PRODUCTS AT THE BASE OF A BUILDING WITH 21 OR MORE UNITS. THIS ISN'T BASED ON SCIENCE. IT IS NOT BASED ON ANALYSIS. THERE IS NO STATED RELATION TO HEALTH, SAFETY OR GENERAL WELFARE. THIS IS PURELY PREFERENTIAL AND IT IS SUBJECTIVE. WITH RESPECT TO THE INTENT THAT IS DEFINED, WE HAVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT CLIMATE AND SUSTAINABILITY. AND I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT EVERY ONE OF THESE PRODUCTS MEETS THE BUILDING CODE. [2:04:10] **Jim Snyder (Attorney):** EVERY ONE OF THE PRODUCTS MEETS THE BUILDING CODE AND ALL THE CLIMATE GOALS ASSOCIATED WITH BUILDING CODE. BUT WITH RESPECT TO LP SMARTSIDE, THIS IS A CARBON NEGATIVE PRODUCT. THIS IS A 50-YEAR PRODUCT LIFE AND DURING THAT PRODUCT'S LIFE, LP CAN PLANT, GROW, AND HARVEST MANY TIMES OVER THE AMOUNT OF FIBER THAT IS PUT INTO THAT PIECE OF SIDING. SO THIS IS A RENEWABLE, SUSTAINABLE PRODUCT AND ANY STATEMENTS THAT THIS IS LESS DURABLE OR LESS CLIMATE FRIENDLY IS PROVABLY FALSE AND WE HAVE REAL CONCERNS ABOUT IT. WE ALSO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT AFFORDABILITY. I'LL WRAP UP REAL QUICK. THE CITY HAS MADE SIGNIFICANT EFFORT TO MAKE HOUSING AFFORDABLE. BY ELIMINATING AFFORDABLE PRODUCTS, YOU ARE MAKING AFFORDABLE HOUSING LESS AFFORDABLE. SO WE'D ASK YOU TO REJECT THIS ARBITRARY LANGUAGE. THANK YOU. [2:04:43] **President Olson:** THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE HERE WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? SEEING NONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONERS, IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? [2:04:53] **Commissioner Campbell:** I WILL START BY SAYING I'M CONFUSED. BECAUSE I THINK WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE -- THERE IS CLEARLY A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THE BUILDING MATERIALS WE USE IN THIS CITY, WHICH IS GREAT. I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT WE ARE GOING FROM AND WHAT WE ARE GOING TO. I'M HEARING THAT WE ARE GETTING LESS RESTRICTIVE ON THINGS LIKE EIFS AND STUCCO AND THAT KIND OF THING, BUT THEN I'M HEARING TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF US THAT IT IS NOT. [2:05:29] **Commissioner Campbell:** AND I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL FOR US AS A COMMISSION BEFORE WE MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THIS, CONSIDERING THE FEEDBACK WE ARE GETTING IN OUR PACKETS AND IN THE AUDIENCE, TO HAVE A BETTER, CLEARER IDEA OF WHAT WE ARE MOVING FROM AND TO. WHAT IS THE FROM AND TO? I FEEL LIKE THAT WOULD HELP CLEAR THE AIR ON WHAT I DON'T HAVE AND WOULD HELP PROVIDE A NEEDED CLARITY FOR THE BOARD TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION. I'LL SAY, I WOULD RECOMMEND -- I DO FEEL LIKE WE CAN HELP FACILITATE A BIT OF A COMPROMISE HERE. I FEEL THAT EXISTS. AN I FEEL LIKE GIVING THIS ISSUE MORE TIME COULD POTENTIALLY LEAD US THERE. I WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND THAT WE CONTINUE THIS TO THE NEXT MEETING AS IS APPROPRIATE OR AVAILABLE TO US AS A BODY. [2:06:21] **Commissioner Ford:** SECOND. **President Olson:** COMMISSIONER MEYER. [2:06:26] **Commissioner Meyer:** I STRONGLY SUPPORT THAT MOTION AND WAS GOING TO MAKE IT MYSELF. I DID WANT TO DISCUSS MY REASONS MORE SO WE CAN DISCUSS A LITTLE BIT MAYBE AT WHAT POINT WE BRING THIS BACK, BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE THE NEXT MEETING IS THE RIGHT ONE. LIKE YOU, I WAS VERY CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT THE STATUS QUO IS AND WHAT THIS PROPOSAL MOVES TO. I HAVE BEEN HERE QUITE A FEW YEARS AND HAVE SEEN REQUESTS TO GET ALTERNATIVE PLANS FROM THE STATUS QUO. SO MAYBE THAT IS WHERE SOME OF THE CONFUSION IS COMING IN. [2:07:04] **Commissioner Meyer:** MAYBE SOME OF THESE PROJECTS WERE GRANTED THROUGH ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE. I DON'T KNOW IF THE LOEWS BUILDING WAS GRANTED IN THAT WAY. BUT IT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL TO UNDERSTAND THOSE THINGS. I ALSO -- I POSTED ON TWITTER ABOUT THIS SEEKING FEEDBACK FROM THE PUBLIC AND REALLY GOT A LOT OF WHAT I FELT WAS VALUABLE INFORMATION AND A LOT OF THINGS TO DIG INTO FURTHER. ESPECIALLY ON THE EMBODIED CARBON POLLUTION AND MATERIALS. [2:07:43] **Commissioner Meyer:** THERE IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS FOCUSED ON THAT CALLED BUILDERS FOR CLIMATE ACTION. THEY HAVE A WHOLE REPORT ON THAT. AND I WAS GOING TO TRY TO HAVE IT DISPLAYED TODAY. IT WOULD TAKE EFFORT TO DO THAT. HOPEFULLY IN TIME FOR THE NEXT MEETING, HOPEFULLY WE COULD REVIEW THE SUPPLIES. BRICK IS THE MOST CARBON INTENSIVE OF ANY OF THE MATERIALS. 17 TIMES MORE THAN SOME OF THE OTHERS ON THE LIST THAT WE ARE DISCOURAGING. [2:08:19] **Commissioner Meyer:** SO IT MIGHT BE THAT BRICK IS MORE SUSTAINABLE IN THE SENSE OF LASTING LONGER, BUT NOT THE INTENTION WITH CLIMATE IMPACT OF IT, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD LAST 17 TIMES LONGER. I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO LOOK AT. THERE IS AN ORGANIZATION CALLED THE HOUSING AFFORDABILITY INSTITUTE I WAS INFORMED ABOUT AND THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO GIVE GUIDANCE ON HOW THESE MATERIALS AFFECT AFFORDABILITY. THEY MADE THE CLAIM THAT FOR THE AVERAGE MANDATE FOR FOUR-SIDED AESTHETIC WITH PARTIAL STONE FACADES ADD ABOUT $20,000 PER UNIT. THAT WAS SPECIFIC TO MINNESOTA. [2:09:20] **Commissioner Meyer:** THAT WOULD BE WORTH DIGGING INTO IT. SOME OF THE PHOTOS THAT STAFF SHARED I THOUGHT WERE HELPFUL SOME OF THE BUILDINGS THAT WERE EXAMPLES OF THINGS WE ARE TRYING TO AVOID. I THINK WHAT WOULD REALLY ADD ON TO THAT IS IF WE LOOK AT SOME OF THESE BUILDINGS AND SAY WE DON'T LIKE HOW THEY LOOK FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES AND IF WE COULD TRY TO FIGURE OUT -- OKAY, IF WE CHANGED THAT WITH DIFFERENT MATERIALS, HOW MUCH EXTRA WOULD THAT COST AND HOW MUCH MORE OR LESS CARBON POLLUTION WOULD THAT CREATE? [2:09:52] **Commissioner Meyer:** I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY GOOD TO GET INTO THOSE DETAILS AND I WAS ALSO GOING TO SUGGEST -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT OUR RULES ARE AROUND THIS, BUT IT WOULD BE REALLY NICE TO HAVE A LISTENING SESSION TO HAVE MORE IN DEPTH DISCUSSION, TO SHOW PEOPLE PHOTOS OR TO HAVE PEOPLE SHOW PHOTOS OF WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE OR WHAT THEY DON'T LIKE AND TRY TO GET INTO THAT MORE. I THINK THAT WITH SOME DELAY, WE COULD PRODUCE A MUCH BETTER RECOMMENDATION FOR THE COUNCIL. WE MIGHT GET PREEMPTED ON THIS. [2:10:39] **Commissioner Meyer:** THERE IS A BILL CALLED LEGALIZE AFFORDABLE HOUSING BILL. IT WAS AUTHORED BY REPRESENTATIVES HOWARD, ELKINS AND HOLINS. IT WAS CONSIDERED IN THE LAST SESSION, BUT DUE TO TIME, IT DIDN'T GET A VOTE, BUT THE CHAIRS OF THE HOUSING COMMITTEES AND THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS AGREED TO HEAR IT NEXT YEAR. ONE OF THE THINGS IT DOES IS IT PREEMPTS MUNICIPALITIES FROM HAVING AESTHETIC BASED MATERIAL REGULATIONS. SO IF IT PASSED AS DRAFTED, IT DOESN'T MEAN WE COULDN'T HAVE REGULATIONS OF THIS KIND, BUT YOU COULDN'T DO IT FOR AESTHETIC REASONS. [2:11:35] **Commissioner Meyer:** YOU COULD DO IT FOR CLIMATE OR DURABILITY REASONS. SO I'M JUST PUTTING TO THE COMMISSION WE COULD BRING THIS BACK NEXT TWO WEEKS OR WE COULD -- I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH EFFORT WE WANT TO PUT INTO IT WITH THE POSSIBILITY IT MIGHT BE PREEMPTED. I DO SUPPORT THE ORIGINAL MOTION, BUT I WANTED TO PUT OUT THERE THAT IT MIGHT MAKE MORE SENSE THAT WE CONTINUE IT INDEFINITELY UNTIL WE ARE READY TO BRING IT BACK. [2:12:15] **President Olson:** KIMBERLY, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING? [2:12:20] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** JUST PROCEDURALLY, THIS IS A LEGISLATIVE ACTION. IT IS NOT A QUASI JUDICIAL ACTION. BUT FOR THE RECORD -- ALL COMMISSIONERS HAVE ACCESS TO THE SAME INVESTIGATION WHEN MAKING THEIR DECISION, I'D ASK COMMISSIONER MEYER TO SUBMIT -- I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU SUBMIT A TWITTER THREAD TO THE CLERK'S OFFICE FOR THE RECORD, BUT I'M SURE WE CAN FIGURE SOMETHING OUT OR IF THERE IS SCREEN SHOTS OR LINKS OR SOME WAY TO DO THAT SO EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO THE SAME INFORMATION YOU MENTIONED HERE. AND LOOKING FORWARD WE CAN'T CONTINUE IT INDEFINITELY. WE NEED TO CHOOSE A DATE. YOU CAN GO A CERTAIN NUMBER OF CYCLES AND I CAN GIVE YOU THE CORRESPONDING DATE. UPCOMING MEETINGS ARE JULY 31, AUGUST 14, SEPTEMBER 5, SEPTEMBER 18 AND SO ON. [2:13:20] **President Olson:** COMMISSIONER MEYER. [2:13:25] **Commissioner Meyer:** I'M WONDERING IF STAFF COULD CONSIDER A DAY WITH A LESS BUSY AGENDA. IF YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE ONES WITH FEW ITEMS, BUT TRY TO BALANCE IT OUT SO WE DO IT WHEN THERE ARE FEWER AGENDA ITEMS. [2:13:41] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** UNFORTUNATELY RIGHT NOW I ONLY KNOW WHERE OUR JULY 31 MEETING IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE. I WOULD SAY IT SEEMS THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF INFORMATION BEING ASKED FOR HERE. I THINK IT WOULD BE MOST HELPFUL IF WE COULD HAVE A LIST OF THINGS WE ARE HOPING TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THE CONTINUANCE. SO THE CODE DEVELOPMENT TEAM CAN LOOK INTO VERY SPECIFIC THINGS. ONE CYCLE PROBABLY ISN'T GOING TO DO IT GIVEN ALL THE THINGS DISCUSSED ALREADY IN ORDER TO TURN SOMETHING AROUND FOR THE PACKET, WE ARE PRODUCING ANOTHER PACKET NEXT WEEK FOR THE JULY 31 MEETING. [2:14:17] **Commissioner Campbell:** THERE ARE THREE THINGS I HEARD STAFF PRESENT ON. I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS ACCURATE. I WANT TO CATCH MYSELF HERE. WHICH WAS DURABILITY, CLIMATE CHANGE RESILIENCY AND THE THIRD ONE -- LET'S START WITH DURABILITY AND CLIMATE CHANGE RESILIENCY. I'D LIKE TO PUT SOME ANALYSIS BEHIND WHAT THAT MEANS FOR US. AS WE'RE THINKING ABOUT -- TO COMMISSIONER MEYER'S POINT ABOUT BRICK VERSUS GLASS, WHAT ARE THE CLIMATE CHANGE IMPACTS, SO AS WE THINK ABOUT ALLOWING OR DISALLOWING THEM, WE HAVE DATA TO SUPPORT THEM TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE. [2:15:07] **Commissioner Campbell:** I'D ALSO -- LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER, I'D LIKE A BETTER ANALYSIS ON WHAT WE HAVE AND WHAT WE ARE RECOMMENDING MOVING TO SO WE CAN SEE CLEARLY WHAT EXISTS NOW AND WHERE WE ARE HEADING. THOSE ARE THE THREE THINGS I THINK I WOULD ASK FOR AS WE MOVE FORWARD. [2:15:36] **President Olson:** COMMISSIONER KOSKI. [2:15:40] **Commissioner Koski:** THANK YOU, CHAIR OLSON. I GUESS I WOULD JUST ADD TO THAT, THE -- YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE USING ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCES BEFORE, JUST LIKE AN UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE I'M HEARING THAT -- I HAVE HEARD TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. I'M HEARING THAT WE WEREN'T USING PRODUCTS ON OUR CHART, BUT NOW I'M HEARING THAT WE DO HAVE MANY BUILDINGS IN THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS THAT ARE USING THIS PRODUCT. HOW DID WE GET TO UTILIZING THOSE PRODUCTS WOULD ALSO BE HELPFUL. THANK YOU. [2:16:09] **President Olson:** YEAH. I JUST WANT TO SAY, I KNOW -- THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK ON THIS. IT IS NOT AN EASY TASK. WHAT I HAVE SEEN SO FAR HAS BEEN HELPFUL, BUT I AGREE. IT IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND ALL THESE BUILDING MATERIALS, AT LEAST FOR ME. I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK. I WOULD SECOND SAYING, LIKE, WHAT MATERIALS ARE BECOMING MORE RESTRICTIVE, IF THAT IS THE CASE AND GETTING IT ON ONE SHEET OF PAPER, REAL SIMPLE, WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL. [2:16:38] **President Olson:** COMMISSIONER BAXLEY. [2:16:42] **Commissioner Baxley:** I THINK EVERYBODY'S SAID WHAT I WANTED TO SAY, BUT I THINK WE ARE STEPPING TOWARDS SOMETHING THAT IS LESS SUBJECTIVE AESTHETICALLY, WHICH I THINK IS A GOOD THING. FLEXIBILITY THERE. AND SOMETHING THAT IS MORE PERFORMATIVE. SO I THINK THE THINGS THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT AROUND GETTING CARBON NUMBERS STATED ON OUR MATERIALS WOULD BE A GREAT TARGET, EVEN IF WE DON'T SET A GOAL, BUT SO THERE IS AWARENESS, LET'S START WITH THAT. AND I THINK -- THIS CHART IS INTERESTING. REVERSE CHART WOULD BE MORE TELLING. THERE IS ONLY TWO OR THREE EMPTY SPOTS. SO IT FEELS LIKE DISCUSSION AROUND -- EXCEPT FOR VINYL, WHY DO WE EVEN HAVE THIS CHART? I THINK THE WELCOMED DISCUSSION FURTHER WITH STAFF AROUND PERFORMANCE VERSUS AESTHETICS WILL BE GOOD. THANK YOU. [2:17:34] **President Olson:** COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL. [2:17:40] **Commissioner Campbell:** IF MY MOTION HAS A SECOND, CAN I AMEND IT? **President Olson:** IF YOUR SECONDER AGREES? **Commissioner Campbell:** I'D LIKE TO AMEND THE MOTION THAT I MADE THAT WE CONTINUE THIS UNTIL THE LATEST POSSIBLE DATE ALLOWED BY POLICY, OR OCTOBER 2, WHICHEVER IS LONGER. [2:18:05] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** THERE IS NO 60-DAY DEADLINE FOR THIS TYPE OF AN APPLICATION, SO OCTOBER 2 WOULD BE FINE. **Commissioner Meyer:** I'LL SECOND THAT. [2:18:21] **President Olson:** IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? OTHERWISE THE MOTION ON THE TABLE IS TO CONTINUE THIS TO OCTOBER 2. CORRECT? **Commissioner Campbell:** YEP. **President Olson:** OKAY. I'M NOT SEEING ANY DISCUSSION. I'LL ASK THE CLERK TO CALL THE ROLL. **Clerk:** COMMISSIONER ALPER. **Commissioner Alper:** AYE. **Clerk:** BAXLEY. **Commissioner Baxley:** AYE. **Clerk:** CAMPBELL. **Commissioner Campbell:** AYE. **Clerk:** CONLEY. **Commissioner Conley:** AYE. **Clerk:** FORD. **Commissioner Ford:** AYE. **Clerk:** KOSKI. **Commissioner Koski:** AYE. **Clerk:** MEYER. **Commissioner Meyer:** AYE. **Clerk:** OLSON. **President Olson:** AYE. [2:18:54] **Clerk:** THAT'S EIGHT YEAS, ZERO NAYS. **President Olson:** ALL RIGHT, THAT MOTION PASSES AND THAT WAS OUR FINAL DISCUSSION ITEM FOR THE EVENING. ARE THERE ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS FROM STAFF? [2:19:07] **Staff (Kimberly Holien):** I THINK WE ARE ALL TIRED AND HUNGRY. I'LL JUST NOTE WE HAVE A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING WITH ONE AGENDA ITEM ON IT COMING UP ON THURSDAY AND YOU SHOULD HAVE JUST RECEIVED THAT AGENDA. [2:19:18] **President Olson:** OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE FROM COMMISSIONERS BEFORE WE ADJOURN? IF NOT, WITHOUT OBJECTION, I'LL DECLARE THIS MEETING ADJOURNED. OUR NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING WILL BE MONDAY, JULY 31 AND OUR NEXT COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING WILL BE THIS THURSDAY, JULY 20 AT 4:30 PM. THANK YOU, EVERYBODY. **Commissioners:** THANK YOU.