for e for e for for for e for for for that you're investing in um in getting together with us um we've got a couple of elected officials in the room and I just real quickly wanted to identify uh vice mayor Scott Anderson and of course CC member J a little bit of that later on in the day uh we've got a great individual from Urban 3 I'm here to uh uh to do this presentation um ently um the the idea is um through this body of work um Gilbert is and will continue to be fiscally sustainable and that is obviously from a build environment perspective not an easy Endeavor to do um through our conversations and our dialogue with Urban 3 um the results cated in a presentation that was provided to um the entire staff as well as in a uh two-day work group or work uh session with with Council not quite in a rre like format not as formal but um a little less uh formal in the form of a working session um and you will see a lot of what we did in that working session with Council um brought here today to engage you in a similar or like way Urban 3 um is in town again to present the findings that they um that they convey to us as U as a community um about our economic productivity and um things that we can begin to apply as we contemplate that built environment um particularly things like return on investment um as well as um um sort of defining um return on investment by acre and so um our agenda today includes again uh a reorientation of the varying roles of the Redevelopment commission and Planning Commission um and identifies those areas with which they overlap and essentially compliment each other uh we will then roll into a dinner dialogue about how you all approach your agenda packets and the design review cases we're going to take you through a land use exercise that we completed with Council during that Workshop um and we'll hear from Urban 3 finally we will end our evening with an update related to Heritage District Parkin um and again appreciate all of the time attention and your participation today with that I'm going to hand it over to Ashley mcone our principal plan all right thank you uh so as Dan said I'm actually McDonald principal planner I'm in to tag team this presentation with Veronica um my counterpart so she'll be up here in just a little bit so you don't have to hear me the whole time um we're going to talk about the um Planning Commission tonight the roles of the of the town in the development process the interal process that applications go through before they get to a hearing body so Redevelopment or Planning Commission depending on the item um an overview of the planning pce types and then the next steps what happens after it goes before Planning Commission Redevelopment commission um before before it starts to be built so the planning division on average receives about 20 to 45 new cases every month um and we have just about 200 active planning projects at any one time divided amongst our staff um of these cases there's only about one or two active Heritage District projects at any one time um so a lot of the stuff that we're going to talk about today that's specific to the Heritage District covers a very small geographic area um which is what makes that area so special right we are able to to dedicate in planning um one staff member that oversees our our projects to the downtown um that's Kristen Divine so we development commission knows her well um Planning Commission does as well but she handles the bulk of our projects that occur in the um Heritage district and that really allows us to have continuity um across the district as we apply those standards so as we start to talk about development within the district we have a lot of tools in our toolbox it starts high level our general plan is our visioning document that applies across the town that's a voter adopted plan um I'll cover it in a little bit more detail as we go along um but we also have the uh Heritage District Redevelopment plan um that also provides kind of a high Lev overview our visioning plan for the Heritage district from there we go into our our implementation standards so those include our documents such as our Land Development code the Gilbert Municipal Code um we've got Heritage District design guidelines along with commercial industrial residential guidelines and then we've also got implementation tools such as our Capital Improvement plan our infrastructure Improvement plan we have a shadeen street skate master plan um and any future or current studies that are ongoing that help shape development within the town so how do we get from all of those documents to development um the really the really fun stuff that all our residents love uh starting with that high Lev overview um our general plan provides Bri Broad guidance um as staff reviews projects um The Heritage District specifically is identified as a growth area and a character area um we use that as we review these projects so this is just kind of there's no specifics in this plan um but it's it um includes things such as the Heritage district will create a place that is pedestrian and bical oriented that it promotes development um of underutilized space creates a place for residents feel a sense of community so as we're reviewing projects um in the district or across the town we're keeping these things in mind and providing comments um that help us achieve these things dialing it in a little bit more um there is the Redevelopment plan this is a 10-year document um this the current plan that we have uh is plans through 2028 um it is the fourth iteration of the plan and it sets specific strategies for redevelopment and includes short and long and long-term goals similar to the general plan um from a planning perspective this um plan again guides guides the feedback that we provide to our development projects um specific to the r development plan it outlines public amenities such as the commons open space which we'll talk about a little bit more uh the Poo that runs from the south end of the district to the North End um and so this is how we get some of those things in our projects is by Leading on this do doent then looking at some of our implementation tools This Is Our Land Development code um although the Land Development code covers the town as a whole some uh Heritage District specific um sections or items um include our Heritage Village Center zoning District that makes up the bulk of the district we also have a section um that outlines the overlay so all of the Heritage district is within an overlay District um you can see that there are some Pockets um kind of a yellow area that's single family residential so in the Heritage district there are different standards for single family residential because of that overlay so different lot sizes different setback requirements things like that we also have um parking that that uh applies across the entire town but specific to the Heritage district there are sections that allow for off-site parking within the Heritage District so um we allow uh in certain circumstances for developments to offsite their parking if it's within a certain distance of their use and the town has capacity to um absorb that parking requirement we also have specific sign regulations um for the town and then and then some that dial into the Heritage District specifically um any sign in the Heritage District requires the Heritage sign plan um we'll cover a little bit later what that process looks like um and then it outlines the procedures for redevelopment commission and Planning Commission so this is what the uh portion of the code that kind of Co that governs um the different zoning District looks like uh within each zoning District we have height regulations stepback regulations um and so that applies across the town every zoning district has this this type of Regulation downst a hush slowly step by step first oh man if anybody looked like a Senator Palpatine that's that guy be so cool that's a good concer I think it's fair to say AG I don't know Ty I know to go get one I never there's a so before we dive into the specific case Ty I wanted to show you um just a quick video it's pretty short talks about the adopted design guidelines for the Heritage District these are a really critical component um for the review of our projects as we seek to create a sense place in our downtown for rival when you enter Gilbert's downtown Heritage District a feeling of glimpsing the past while celebrating the future a feeling of community connectedness of Creative Energy of history of Gilbert's heartbeat in 2018 Gilbert's Town Council adopted an updated Heritage District Redevelopment plan plan and in order to ensure the character of the downtown reflected this plan a new set of design guidelines were developed this was not the typical government document that reads like a foreign language but rather a foundation for architectural character that ensures adherence to town codes and standards while simultaneously making the guidelines persistent and broadly applicable the document is divided into four sections commercial development projects public space projects residential development projects and an appendix the guidelines challenge conventional Suburban planning via the focus on a human scale loable environment that provides residents options for an urban lifestyle it utilizes axonometric drawings and inspirational photography to convey the anticipated development standard and quality it creates a tapa Street in which not all areas of the3 squ Mile District are the same the streets are designated as a certain type and the experience of the street is explain while the Heritage District character is interwoven and while most design guidelines focus on commercial residental spaces these guidelines ensure the Public's vision for public spaces are memorialized retaining the small town field was a primary concern of the public staff achieved this by requiring turn ofth Century architecture on Main Street incorporating red brick design features in each Street type incorporating curbless streets around public spaces and designating spaces for curbside mom and pop vendors Gilbert has already seen the success of the adopted design guidelines and a recently approved $300 million private development at the northern entrance of the district whose character reflects the Charming Spirit of the Gilbert Community as the district continues to build out the guidelines will ultimately preserve what makes Gilbert unique and will ensure visitors and residents say I want to return to downtown Gilbert the narrator did a great job on that all right so with all of that that background in mind um we will walk through the various case types but just to kind of give a broad overview of that um there are number of items that come before you um as Redevelopment commission Planning Commission um and then a number of items that are approved administratively by staff so those items that go to public hearings include our general plan amendments our rezonings design review um for kind of an initial or Master site plan conditional use permits preliminary plats Heritage sign plan could actually be in both categories um that one's unique if a development is meeting all of the standards of our sign code then we can approve that administratively Heritage sign plans allow an applicant to um seek mediations and if they do that it comes before the court so that one actually should be listed in both um and then administrative actions include um administrative design review so if it's part of a master site plan one of our hearing bodies has already seen it um and we're looking to just refine the plan um add in elevations for a building that maybe they didn't have the initially um we've got minor admin design review applications so that's an approved plan that we're we're making just minor tweaks on um and then there's administrative M permit so those are the things that staff does um without uh Planning Commission or design review or input um so as we look at the roles of our Redevelopment commission specifically and we'll talk about Planning Commission next um they receive their Authority through um Arizona revised statutes and and they've got um you know Powers um through that uh but additionally here in Gilbert um they serve as our design review board reviewing again those design review applications that that are within the Heritage district and then they look at um Heritage sign plans uh Redevelopment commission serves as a recommending board for our general plan amendments rezonings and use permits for projects that are in the district um they make those recommendations that then go to Planning Commission um and then they serve as Heritage District advisers on a variety of things um it includes the Redevelopment plan when we're working through that Capital Improvement projects um any Heritage um District plans or studies um such as parking studies and then the role of the Planning Commission so they again are recommending body on our general plan amendments resoning applications and then those ultimately go to Town Council uh they the decisionmaking body on preliminary PLS and use permits they serve as the design review board on design review cases sign plans standard plans outside of the district so uh Planning Commission won't see design reviews sign plans those types of things that are within the Heritage District uh and then um Planning Commission also serves as our Board of adjustments so um you hear our appeals um from decisions of the zoning administrator or the zoning hearing officer the internal process um just to to give you some understanding about what uh a project goes through before it gets to a hearing um if it's a resoning application or a general plan Amendment they are required to hold a neighborhood meeting the applicant holds that meeting staff attends so we can hear some of that feedback that typically occurs before a pre-application meeting but in some instances it'll happen after the pre-application meeting um after that they go to um uh staff for that pre-application meeting it's a formal submitt they'll provide us a site plan and we do our internal review it includes reviews by uh planning engineering traffic uh building and fire and then any others is needed sometimes Water Resources needs to get involved or um environmental services for example once they get all that information from us they'll move on um and submit a formal application uh where we start an actual review process they've Incorporated some of the feedback they hear at that preap meeting um and it goes through that same review body for the most part um planning engineering traffic building Environmental Services um always reviews it as part of this process as does Water Resources um we'll send that comments and so it kind of goes in this review process until staff feels satisfied that they've addressed our comments um we'll take it to RDC for study session or Planning Commission depending on on where the project is to receive preliminary feedback we try and do that about this about the time of first review so sometimes if you're were in front of you and you're like gosh this doesn't seem like it's close to being ready why is it here it's because we want your feedback early in the process our applicants are more likely to make changes to their development if they get that feedback early rather than after they've gone through three reviews with staff so um we we try and get it get it to you guys early so they can uh get your feedback with that I'm going to turn it over to Veronica and she's going to walk through all of the case types thank you Ash uh for those of you who don't know me my name is Veronica Gonzalez I'm the other principal planner and um as Ashley noted um I will be going through um the different case types that use the re Redevelopment commission and the Planning Commission will see um so the first one I'm going to talk about here is the um the rezoning and general plan Amendment um case types um these case types typically include requests to change the land use designation and or zoning District um they're typically um to allow different land uses are um change the intensity of the development and they're ultimately approved by the Town Council when an applicant uh uh intends to submit a request to reone Andor change the land use designation the process begins with a neighborhood meeting um this is where the applicant will invite all Property Owners within 300 ft of the of the site um in addition to homeowners associations with within a th000 ft um they come to a meeting the applicant provides a presentation and we'll answer any questions that the um the public might have about that uh once they've completed their neighborhood meeting they then are eligible to submit for a pre-application meeting um after they have their pre-application meeting um they are now eligible to submit their um formal review which takes off their staff review um once uh the staff review occurs um for developments and Heritage District um all all um and properties within a th000 ft of the Heritage District boundaries um these case types will go to the RDC or recommendation before they go to the Planning Commission and then eventually on to the Town Council for that final approval um in considering these case types uh the perview of the hearing body is determine if the requested change in brand use and Zoning makes sense in the location that they are proposing and is it consistent with the general plan um the recommendations that may be made include um approval approval with modified conditions denial or continuous um I'd also like to note that um with this type of case or with this case type um resoning um things like um modifying land or development standards may not be done through conventional res um so reings may also include a planned area development or pad overlay and this is the mechanism or tool that could be used to um request um modifications to uh development standards regulations um in order to achieve uh outstanding development that we see uh would be a benefit to the community um the process for um a pad resoning is essentially the same as a convention resoning it begins with a neighborhood meeting um before moving on to a um preup and then staff review um recommendation by the RDC before going on to Planning Commission and then the Town Council um in addition to uh modific that may be requested through the pad um a pad may also take into consideration um phasing of the development uh it may um address on and offsite improvements and establish design guidelines however land uses uh parking ratios signs and fence and wall regulations may not be modified uh just like with uh conventional rezonings um the hearing body actions for these case types are again approval approval with modified condition denial or continuous next we have design review cases um here we consider uh the site plan landscape plan grading and drainage lighting building elevations colors materials for the building um neighborhood meetings are typically not required for a design reviewed case so they can go right into the prea um step that's their first step before their formal submitt staff review um and then um for those cases in the Heritage District um during the first review as Ashley had mentioned we will schedule a study session with the Redevelopment commission uh because it's the early stages of the review and and that's the um point at which to start making some modifications to the elevations um once all of the comments from the commission and staff have been addressed the case will then be scheduled for a public hearing um in these case types the role of the um of the commission uh is to provide comment and eventually approve the architecture site plan landscape pallet building materials and um Building colors and materials and then the action is taken the action taken by commission is either approval approval modifi conditions denial or continu and just to kind of give you some examples of um how those documents um are how we work with those documents through the design review process I'm sure you're all familiar with this this is the Heritage North project um so on the left hand side there is kind of the earlier iteration of the um of the plan um and what you're seeing here is that um it's now water tower way it was at the time called say but it's it's a pedestrian connection kind of connects the Heritage District um the length of the Heritage District so in those first iterations you're seeing it kind of doesn't go all the way through but working with staff and um getting comments and feedback you can kind of start to see some of the changes that take place that you can um see happen through a review again uh some building uh renderings of the her project um again you can just kind of see the um the transition from earlier of the proposal to what eventually got approved and finally this is a recent approval uh by the re Redevelopment commission this is a bowling restaurant concept at the corner of K inber Road um what they've done here is they've taken some of the elements from the Heritage District design guidelines and incorporated into them to make it more um in conformance with those design guidelines that we have in um this bottom right pictures but but um ultimately it's proved um next we have conditional use permits um these are required for uses that need special consideration to ensure they don't interfere or have any kind of negative impact uh on surrounding properties um similar to the case types discussed earlier um the process for cup is to start with a app before moving on to um foral submitt uh staff review and then it goes to the predevelopment commission for a recommendation before moving on to the Planning Commission for a final um decision in reviewing a conditional use permit request the commission must consider if the request meets certain findings of that these findings include determining if the use will be detrimental to the health safety General general welfare conformance with the general plan and if the proposed use will interfere with the use and enjoyment of nearby properties the RDC makes a recommendation of approval approval of approval with Mod I'm sorry approval with modified conditions denial or continuance to Planning Commission and then again Planning Commission makes the final decision we do have a few case types that are reviewed administratively are at a staff level um one of these case types is the administrative design review um these cases include um Provisions to already approved Dr cases um we ensure that they are consistent with the um with the original approval um sometimes they will these will include um new structures or additions of 5,000 ft or less um they also can include things like the Heritage sign plan or HSP mentioned earlier um hsps that comply with the sign code can be reviewed administratively by staff as well as um any additions an or modifications to any existing hsps these cases follow the same uh internal staff review process um and staff may add conditions of approval um we also have an administrative use permit these are to used for um things like shared parking um in the Heritage District it allows um parking for a particular property to be um provided offsite within um you know Town garage or parking area um incidental dwelling units um their uses that require special consideration um and again they have um certain findings that they have to uh meet and they follow the same internal review processed as conditional use permits um there is a neighborhood notice requirement with it and staff can add conditions of approval so any decision by the Redevelopment commission or the Planning Commission can be appealed to the Town Council um anybody can make an appeal um that could be staff applicant um anybody who feels agreed by a decision that is made by the hearing body um they have 10 days to submit an appeal uh from when the decision is made and then the appeal hearing must take place within 60 days of one day of file their repal so question we have now is what happens abon project is approved uh well the next step in the process is to submit their plans for um permit review they go through that process then the permits are issued they can be begin construction and um inspections are completed or taking place during that process and then finally they'll receive their CFO and um acceptance of their public improvements and at that point you'll get to see the fruits of your labor with the beautiful buildings that have been built throughout town that concludes our presentation and we'd be happy to take any questions or comments you may have thank you Ashley and Veronica okay so we are at dinner okay this is the fun part um so if you guys want to go head and D up get back to your seat and then we just have some facilitated questions um for planning and Redevelopment Commission on how you guys approach PES um we thought that would be a good opportunity and then once we wrap up dinner we're going to hop right into those leg Lego exercises so um you guys want to go ahe L te play with Legos thank for bu me all the Legos soos after I actually got okay guys get up go eat [Music] lined up in this room e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e we'll goad and start with the table and then I'll ask those in the back to go ahead and introduce themselves I'll start with myself while you're finishing up I'm Amanda Elliot I oversee Redevelopment and I am the staff L on the Redevelopment commission and I'm an office of Economic Development so hi I work in the office of Economic Development as a Redevelopment project manager I specifically work in the Heritage District so I work with the Redevelopment commission I'm [Music] I'm Kyle Maris I'm the development services director AA cro planning manager and stff leaz on to the planning commissiona horz uh one of the assistant Town attorneys for planning um Planning Commission Mary Goodman I'm an assistant Town manager and two of the teams that I work with in the town are um Economic Development and development services I'm Lis duger and I serve on the Planning Commission Lis Gage on the Planning Commission Tom on the Planning Commission Brian Anderson I'm on the Planning Commission lesie Davis Planning Commission TJ Clawson Redevelopment commission Cassandra Updike Redevelopment commission Casey Kendall Redevelopment commission John Simon Planning Commission Noah mon Planning Commission Town Council Dan Henderson Economic Development Ron Gonzalez planning as McDonald planning I'm Scott Anderson the vice mayor and leaz on to the Planning Commission I'm Patrick bjer the 10 minutes Mike we're GNA kick you hi mik Bell I'm the office of Economic Development I'm hello everyone I'm Clint emry I'm with the town with traffic engineering Mackenzie Wilson office of Economic Development Michelle streer office of Economic Development I'm Anna Cooper I'm just shadowing for the day Erica prer planner one rle Russell senior planner Keith Newman I'm a senior planner Sal Santo also planner one Sanders planner two did we miss anybody j i TR doing it just kidding Jennifer Graves office of Economic Development JN JN Smith office of Economic Development and Clint I did me all right I don't need to do it twice and our fabulous IT staff oh there we go thank you can't get out of this Adrian well thank you everybody for coming and hope you're enjoying dinner I just had a couple of questions and wondering if anybody wants to Pine on them and what is in general what is the most commonly occurring concern or issue you may have with a project and do you have an example of a previous project in which your concern was addressed well so is there any reoccurring issues anything that was addressed well since you have a lot of Staff here and want to bring that to our applicants and make sure you have what you need at meetings everybody happy with everything everything just perfect wrapped up in a nice little red bow for everyone can we bring up a specific planner's name sure is it good or bad is it me no I'm good I'm kidding okay I mean I think from the Redevelopment commission we frequently get acoustic concerns and questions from more of our our neighbors live in the residents basement okay is that what you're looking for I guess I'm not sure what you're no that's it have we been doing noise studies do you need noise studies are we just going by what the LBC States and adhering to that yeah uh good question I think we have kind of we' I think how did we just do this with um bottle blonde we had discussions about it yeah we did ask them for um a noise mitigation plan okay Y in that particular instance and I think that that's essentially what we've been asking for is how do you plan to mitigate the noise overall but I don't think we have like a a formalized yeah something that's more formal guidance on it okay council member tus one of the problems we have is our noise ordinance isn't really up to date it isn't correct uh because if you start measuring at the window uh what's inside of a window what's outside of a window Etc uh and the volume the decimal readings realize they triple every every time you go up uh it needs to be relook at I don't I don't have your answer but I will say that we have to look at that because base travels further than travel and it it'll it'll travel through concrete because of the side shape of the wave and we need to come up with something like that because whether they're right or wrong there are people that feel they are affected even by Whiskey Row that distance and there's some people they're quite a distance away they're I've I hate to admit it but I've got to call say can you hear this on my phone and I can how do I defend that I can't right but it's not something I can do anything with at this point because it's a pre it's done so we do need to look at how we're going to approach that and I believe our sign ordinance or our sign our Sound Ordinance is unique to this town I do not believe it's it's got a comparable thing in the valy Patrick am I wrong in that uh boy I'd have to Kyle I think you're on M you think I'm on okay yeah inside of the structure think you didn't so wrong CU I come right across we we are a little bit unique in that we measure I believe from the inside of the structure and a lot of other towns that I measure from the property lot there are also height measurements they measure at you know a five foot height because that's where the ear somebody taller than I am would be and things like that so we will certainly take that into consider a and in the preapps and at the beginning make it noted that there are noise concerns you will be asked about noise so have the applicants prepared for that are there other concerns people could think of that we could uh address early on in the process so that it doesn't have to be dealt with when they're in front of the uh the different bodies I think more renderings of buildings would be helpful you know the more often we can see kind of how that lays out the push and the pull of the building is helpful and that is true when we see the black drawing you you don't catch the movement and all the design and then really the renderings and we try to stress it with applicants they really help the applicant sell the we sell a project for sure and especially lumber yard last week that was a tough one to kind of really see what was happening and in the presentations often we get to see that rendering but we don't often have them in our packets okay and sometimes that's helpful to understand the building a little better so and it's always good when we hear that from the ruling bodies because when they hear from staff they're like oh yeah that's expensive but we'll say well they had a recent meeting it was brought up at the uh ruling body would like to see that and early on in the past even at the study sessions I think that's super helpful for us to understand it okay so noise renderings yes this is kind of a weird one but get a lot of uh different U variation of plants and trees and in the design guidelines it specifically says what we are allowed to plant now if there if the applicant has something that isn't on there is that something that when it goes later on down the line that it would um not get a permit for it with those plants or on a final inspection they would deny it or is it just kind of like we want it as close to this as it is if it's not then maybe we'll let it go through on that one I'm going to phone a friend because I actually had that explained I think by Sydney if you want to step in yeah we have um some awesome people that are in the building um Department that are review the plans and make sure that it's in compliance so for example we had a recent case um jino delato in which they installed um plants that weren't part of the approved pallet and weren't part of what you approved um so then when CFO was coming there was an inspection done it wasn't the correct plant and they had to replant so um that's something that we um have some some team members that do that followup and do that during the um CFO process to make sure that they're in compliance and simply when it's going through the process and they want to deviate from the plan list what do we do then yeah so that's when you guys see that a lot at Redevelopment commission so it is a process that goes at a study session and then inform formal so they're supposed to present it to you at study session and provide you the information of why are we deviating from the plant pallet um and then you guys ultimately would approve it at uh Redevelopment um public here so that's something in which that's why has to be specified out you know you've seen Kristen come up a lot with cactus I feels like is the big one seen a lot of just going to say I heard two for reports with totem pole Cactus seemed to be popular that's where you guys had with Oso bowling um in that one you guys had a lot of questions on are there spines on this are there's the information also why do you want the cactus and that was something that they weren't quite prepared to give you that information so staff can do a better job at coaching the applicants and telling them that you really need to explain in your narrative why you want these deviations so you guys ultimately have that power to deviate thank you Sydney yes Lisa are the single family residential design guidelines going to be updated anytime soon I think they're like 20 something years old actually uh we brought that up a a time or two in my tenure here at the Town um I think there's a desire from staff to take a look at those um you know finding the time is always the challenge well we'll be fully stacked in two weeks for the first time in the five years I've been here so hopefully I know because I don't think I'm mixing it I think I'm assuring it to happen I'm putting it out there yes I've got a more of a general question for the Heritage District I know it's come up on a couple of the most recent projects I know it used to be a requireed ear it used to be allowable that projects were allowed to retain offsite recently all the projects have been encouraged or pushed to try and do all their water retention on site and I know that there's a lot of reports and studies going back and forth I see it being a greater issue depending on what the result of that report comes back at and on these really tight sites and small sites it being extremely challenging if they are forced to retain on site be interesting to see where I know I think there was a group that was hired to do a report on retention offsite and how long we could continue to allow offsite retention where is that in that whole process in the grand scheme of things the report is very close to being done okay um and you're right we're um looking to find ways to increase storage in the Heritage District so we can do more of a regional catch instead of instead of um trying to capture that all on site so that's something we're definitely looking forward to and as the study kind of wraps up and Kyle I was going to say I wish Tom cond was here and I've been told he's on the line so Tom did you have anything you'd like to add I'm looking um the only thing I can add is that we've the reason that we've had all these discussions is because we uh that the FL District in Mara county has an on um it's a flood determination study so we're going a pretty detailed look at our uh at everything pretty much in the north uh East section of our community and then ref the Heritage District that report is Ono at the same time we've had a another consultant working for us doing a separate model and uh there some discrepancies between the models and those discrepancies uh one that we needed to have all the Downtown Development retain their store water or we could have uh you know in in original Basin we could have uh the C the capability to to put all that water in that Basin and things are looking promising so we're getting very close to a resolution on that thanks Tom thanks boys from above you're you're very welcome um does anybody else have anything else I really appreciate this feedback but we do have a Lego exercise and I know uh commissioner Gage is very excited about that and I think it starts at 5:15 I don't want to get us off if we're if everyone want to roll everyone wants to kind of roll out of dinner and take a break there's a bathroom right over here and more restrooms downstairs and we'll reconvene at 5:25 and we'll start the exercise you got about a 510 minute break thank you all always e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e I think we have everyone here see some Travers come in but we're going to split you all into three groups so it's a combination of Staff Planning Commission and Redevelopment commission so that you guys can all do this activity together um so you do have a planner at each one of your tables I will help guide you um through some of these items and then also I will be walking around I can help you out and then we also have more planning staff that's available to assist you um so we're going to have three separate teams um so I'm I'll do that at the end I'll go through instructions first just so you don't forget what team you're on um but we have three separate sites these are all Sites located within the Heritage District that are all presently bed so they range from 8 Acres down to 1.6 acres um you are going to build the exact same development on all three sites so it's going to show you what the development potential is of each site and how you fit each one of those items so up here on the screen I'll just go over the sites real quickly for you so site a is down at the bottom so this is an 8 Acre Site that's located at the south east corner of um Elliot and uh gilber Road here um site B is located uh directly west of the University building so this is about a 3 Acre Site that's currently overflow parking and then site C is um up there in the corner it's about 1.6 acres so you can see it's running along Ash stre so it's at the South West corner of Ash in bond right there so it's about 1.6 acres about that 3 Acre existing parking area so all of these sites were selected due to their different sizing and the fact that they're vacant or Surface parking so meant for redevelopment and what you're all going to do is develop a mixed use uh project on the site so mixed use is something that we see more of in the the Heritage district and is what the preferred type of build form is so we're going to have you all build a um mixed use project with ground floor commercial so you're going to see I'll walk over if you can all hear me each one of your Legos here you're all going to have the exact same amount so it's pre-done for you red here each one of these blocks represents 1,000 ft of uh commercial space do not pull apart the block there's four of them for a reason that 000 ft so you have to make 15,000 ft of ground floor commercial a work on your mixed use site and then you have 200 multif family units so each one of these blocks represents one multif family unit I know we have some architects in the room so for Architects this is supposed to be all inclusive of sterols all of those things um again you have the exact amount here and then this gray over here is parking so you can either do surface parking or you can do vertical so the gray represents four parking spaces if you have one this is surface parking um doesn't have a height to it if you do two and you stack it then it becomes 12 ft all of the information on what the different blocks mean and what the heights associated with them are included on here and then you have some optional items so these three are required and you have to use all of them with parking you learned from Veronica and Ashley earlier that parking is a little unique in the Heritage District you can apply to offsite your parking here but only your commercial multif family is required to sell Park so you can it says it in the notes as well um you can take out 18 of these little squares that equals it's somewhere around 70 parking spaces for your commercial and you can apply for an AUP to offsite them or you can try to fit them on your site another optional so for each one of your sites open space is not a requirement in the Heritage District so if you want to add Greenery to your development um then you have um the equivalent of 20% open space for each one of your development so again this is an option it's something if you want to do we love open slace we love Greenery you can get creative with it but it's not required fire access is really important so we are including that in this exercise so you have to have two points of access so for example if you have a garage you need to make sure there's a way to get in and get out you display that through these little roads here so um say for example you set back your development you need to make sure to put a road there make sure how we're getting in and out and this is going to be in here I'm not really good at using these but I know Ashley has a lot of small children and she knows how to work these but these are supposed to be able to pry them off in case you start building something and you decide I don't really want to do that I want to start over so lightly put the Legos push them down these get really stuck so um each one of the sites you'll see it on a site plan here so you can get some context of where you're located on the boards it's really hard to see but we put the setbacks on here for you and we put the bill two lines so in the Heritage District we have zero foot setbacks except for when you're adjacent to residential so this site here this 8 Acre Site is the only one budding residential black is going to be your setback you can't build in the setback your build two lines is going to be in Gold you'll see that and it's also oriented for you on all of those that's your bill two lines you have to be within that um section um of the code so I know I provide a lot of information so we have info up here and we'll be walking around and providing you um some insight each one of the tables has all this information here so this is your guide and we have it up here that provide you information about what everything u means how many you have and then it also provides you all of our development standards so we just took Snips directly from Land Development code you guys should all be familiar with this um and it tells you your setbacks it also goes through your parking requirements that's going to be outlined here um everyone's favorite and information on off siding so one big thing in the Heritage District that we've run into is uh height so your max height it's included in your um it's included in your um HBC uh development standards is 55 ft you can go in additional 5et for parit screening so technically 60 so keep that in mind when you're building if you go above 60 ft you're going to have to ask for a deviation so at the end of this if you guys want to go higher we're going to have each one of the groups present you're going to have to tell us why same thing with setbacks all of that so only things you can deviate from setbacks height and you can offsite that parking I know I just went through a lot of info before I split up the teams General clarifying questions we it's a lot of fun once you get started I know this sounds like a lot of instructions but you'll have a good time our Council has done the exercise our planning staff our Economic Development staff like we've all we've all gone through it so we're excited to see what you guys builds commissioner Gage wants to know if there are prizes just the honor of knowing come on my team if you want to win and is there a winner and a loser we're all here to have a good time why you're doing that so you're the Planning Commission you're the Redevelopment commission Planning Commission is who sees this but why do you need more is it so you can have more open space is it so that you can be closer to um a setback line you need to tell us why the town would provide a deviation and how it benefit the community yeah 1,000 ft of retail commercial what are the dimensions of that th000 square feet oh I don't know it's a block it's a block I knew probably the first time I built this exercise but I have no idea there're to scale for each one so I don't know what it is you need 15 of them you need 15 but is it 20 by 50 is are we developing unleas space here like concern of exactly all right take advantage I'm gonna read yeah I'm gonna read off the teams okay so table a table a is going to be the 8 Acre Site over here we have Dan Henderson Veronica Gonzalez um council member torguson TJ Clawson who's going to talk to you about retail liability um Yan Simon Leslie Davis and Lewis D graan deina I'm so sorry but I'll have you over here on table a okay and then we have parcel B so this is the Von Avenue Parcels adjacent to the university building we have Ava cro Kyle Mez council member Anderson Casey Kendall Adam ba Adam's not here Anthony's not here Brian Anderson and Lisa gain can we grab one of our students all right all right for table seat we Havey McDonald Amanda Elliot Noah team I want yourn guys are doing great we had we had to bring the so we have Anna who is our ASU graduate so this is UN building who's up the three of you we're not going to make our in the Heritage I forgot you were on our team and you've done it as well okay so we we won't cheat I we not open you're developers you are Developers out that's all your parking [Music] all right are [Music] [Music] power no when you're like an arit commercial theying the structure they're doing that when Clint ENT the room I here some tra here 2 a little smaller though isit what what [Music] [Music] [Music] you only have to about fire dryes are requ [Music] so what were the our P build ofes together and see [Music] how for sure the best wait we can still go we're parking structure use all those and all that gray that's why I said [Music] what you're doing they want [Music] that's why and it also prevents like a lot [Music] this [Music] so yeah the yeah I forgot District story oh so we're taking a drve park in the Heritage District um one half a level of teaming instruction is that there is a story restriction in the Heritage District in addition to the so even if you're within theight requirements if you're over St you have think you're gonna get away with it not gonna no no like where's all that parking going guys this is just the collaborative process see how many parkings one square is that our foot walk give you guys a h for this will not be able to the resaler you can you want 48 like [Music] your I I mean if you were ask me what I would honestly you're parking on bre build up that we could do just a straight expensive [Music] don't for the inside the parking garage so there's some establishments Scot they have around they also have the garage here and then they have an AM minut Center separate of it the PO different Market I'm just saying how do it was literally ac across the street from the office you're right want to do a little break breakway like what the cop know [Music] hey no cheated go away theying we allowed to separate this yeah that doesn't sense [Music] [Music] [Music] your expense even though you oh I see yeah start taking them [Music] outv don't know [Music] right no I know all right I'm going to give you 5 minute warning everyone is it mul or yeah it's multi family I don't like the name OFA yeah she is the if anybody ever came to me saying we want to add we don't have I didn't see anything okay I didn't have [Music] AO put on leg you have the plan bu your okay tur [Music] Green Space all the time en this is just this is just alternating the RO roof line yeah we could proba not excuse me I brought traffic engine over [Music] no perhaps you should havea goath you get a scale truck and see get around h you this is Comm this is like the FI people don't cheat on yeah I will just check that to [Music] verify before they trim well start the and within your group make sure to check what your height is figure out what your height is so how many is point and how many stories you have and then also if you have any deviations this is when you're explain to the group development and how you went you're going with any so I'll give you about two minutes to wrap up and and we call each group to present yeah they watch YouTube they like see these L what happened here now we got to write inff report you guys are going to have to commiss that last minute how train train was 8 Hour train and she picked on him it's like really I she did make he said it was intense told was right she's old a couple years ago these guys came like change that and I was like listen up [Music] Sydney what timing are we one minute warning is there a team [Music] all right we get start walk away from the project all right okay we're gonna start over there with uh the is that grp over there yeah group winner all right who wants to present on your item Brian I was volunteer to present this our project so in our project what we went with is a wrap project we went with commercial on the bottom on this corner here because this corner would have the most visibility down B app Bas Road uh for traffic would be in uh Auto traffic so if you're on Gil Road you're looking down you coming off um hinos or whatever the bars are down here you look down and you get this glimpse of this building of the commercial so uh drop the eyesight down um we have the commercial down on the bottom here um mixed use building another second floor commercial up here and then all the blue is what we did for residential so you it's your traditional wrap project uh mix use wrap project and in the middle uh that's where we did our parking garage um for the wrap project and then everything that we had outside of that is going to be our Green Space where you'll have your Medi areas your py area uh dogp and and we're building this in Boston and then for our points of access onto the site uh we're coming off of uh I don't know if this street has a has a name it doesn't but there's Road on this side Anderson a Anderson a uh you come into on the back corner into the site uh leads into the parking garage parking gar and then a wrap around on the site for our fire access and then another entry point on the um west side of the building to enter the parking garage on this corner uh our height is under what's allowed for 50 51 51 ft uh inside of our all of our setbacks uh no deviations that we came across and we requested we feel like the project is in compliance with all zoning zoning cods and traffic engineering was looked it over yeah he gave it two thumbs up two thumbs up and you guys decided to use your open space did you use all of it except for the and you didn't offsite any of your parking for off sting but they do have resal level okay yeah that's something that I didn't say in here so this one this would be in compliance with the code except for residential at ground level I didn't go over that it's in the instructions but in the Heritage District you need a conditional use permit so it's not allowed by right so this would be yes except for for that great job guys you want to start over here with table seat we decided that no no matter how you judge it we're all going to move into it together a lot of camaraderie from grp c yeah our ours is an effort in maximizing your buildable area um because that's what we had to do so we're completely maxed out we have um our two entrances that essentially are linear divide our lot in half all the way from page to bond um all of our traffic engineering concerns our Hammerhead it's all it's all under here go yeah ver you can you can you know look through like we've got we have our road going through um we are a we that you can't have ground floor residential so we don't we didn't seek that uh variant but we are going to need a pral to build a little bit higher for our parking garage so we do have mixed use live some live work here right we've got commercial on the ground floor all residential um once you've you've uh hit that commercial Podium we've got our parking garages inside the core with a lot of Green Space on the lower floors but for about 50% of our garage space we are going to uh seek approval to go up to 60 ft um we are also needing uh and that's for the residential parking we're also needing to seek approval to use some of the Common Parking uh with that agreement so here's all of our offsite parking right over here y 72 spots 72 spots so you guys went five stories with the par parking so that's what got you over and then you fit your mixed use development the retail and the residential MH we fit that in under our 55s do you have a dog you can take your dog to the roof iing in the rules yeah we did we did fit in some green space but it's all uh above grade so you guys got about half your green space in there and rooftop yeah Co awesome yeah so then just uh you're requesting that just a deviation for the five stories and so what would be the justification for that one not possible we have maxed out your your slot so this is an opportunity to see how many occupants you can put on 1.6 acres uh we're we're giving it to you here but you're going to have to help us Park a all right let's give a round of applause great job the final group see presenting for you guys we didn't come up H we can well we we have a prime location and we've actually left extra space because we heard Adam really wanted to bring in a lot of no I'm just kiding so we actually we have Elliot Gil uh Gilbert Road and the southeast Corner um we actually did a statement piece on the on the corner going full elevation and then we teered it back with full dry vials at 48 ft we've got a full um access on Elliott we've got a full access on Gilbert and a right in right out on Elliott double access into a parking garage in the middle we are going to have to ask for deviations on the um residential to ground floor to wrap the um parking we also did a toop Gardens balconies access underneath some of this for to get into the development this is going to be phase two asking for request dropped on the floor I know Eva was around here so wow all right so you're just asking for the deviation so you just see the conditional use permit for the ground floor residential and besides that no deviations and you use almost all your open space just about all we have a lot of extra open space we'd like to request that another more density okay awesome all right well Round of Applause everyone so we're going to move right into the next presentation um and we're going to have herbit three talk about um why this is all really important I think we I just thought of AR a great well I hope that exercise just gives you a little more insight on the competing priorities and the tradeoffs that are necessary to make a project pencil I think we all realize that when applications come before us but this just is an opportunity to really apply those and as skill work continues to grow and reach build out and subsequently we develop important that the decisions we make on he projects really consider Financial picture and economic impact um you know that those decisions have on Gilbert's future so some of the questions that we were thinking about are you know what questions do we need to be asking um you know of our projects to improve the build environment well also providing for a sustainable economic future and how can um data visualizations help aid in making decisions related to projects so with that I would like to introduce Heather morington Heather is a principal at Urban 3 she brings 25 years of leadership experience in local government organizations most recently is the director of longrange planning in Minneapolis where her team loved the creation engagement and policy adoption of the Minneapolis 2040 comprehensive plan she was the first Deputy County Manager appointed in Ramsey County Minnesota where she led the economic growth and Community investment service team and led the restructuring of the county into Ser into service te as adun faculty at Hamin University School of Business she teaches in the center for public administration and Leadership program as well as the MERS in public administration program Heather is a past president of the Minnesota City County management association and was one of the first icma International City County management associations credential city managers in the state of Minnesota so with that we'll have Heather come on up here and check I am going to use m phone because my Opera voice is a little worn out um so good evening everybody uh thanks for having us come tonight and present on our uh product which we did for Gilbert about a year ago Joe Min and Coy our founder was out here I think it was last August you keep saying fall and I'm thinking like August is not fall but okay I get it I get it start to cool off here right um and open three is a a company does something we call Geo accounting so this is basically mash up between finance and map visualization and what we're trying to do is take government practices government information and data and demystify it so uh that's that's a little bit about Urban 3 we're based in Asheville North Carolina uh which is uh green and lovely this time of year and very mountainous uh and we are residents of bunan County which is a large County that includes the builtmore state which you might have visited if you've been to North Carolina so I'm going to start in a pretty basic Way by talking about what is it when we talk about value per acre what does that mean and the analogy I'm going to use is this one how do we compare cars so here's you know six five different cars I can count uh and uh that Ford F-150 on the far right big gas tank big powerful vehicle if we were measuring it by miles per tank that it wins every time right it's got a massive tank on it it can go 648 miles on one tank of gas did you know that I bet a bunch of you have but that's not really how we measure cars right we measure cars by miles per gallon and in this case the iseta wins every time he has thousand even back in the 1950s when the Isetta was built by BMW right after World War II uh it was getting 50 to 70 miles per now arguably you probably don't want to ride around in that thing it's a bit of a death tra uh but you can see here what we're really talking about is comparing these different vehicles uh across the sort of Apples to Apples miles per gallon not miles per T okay that kind of sets us up to have this conversation about what is a value per acre mean when we think about property so we call this our economic MRI again this is bun County home of urban 3 the big purple blob you see in the middle of there's the buil mor State uh that was built in the late 1800s by the Vanderbilt family and represents a significant amount of property tax value in the county but if you take that out and you're looking at just sort of the surrounding area you can see that our property tax value per acre is not particularly robust throughout the entire County Asheville is a big purple Spike purple spike is not an indication of the height of the building it's an indication of the potency of their value per acre so that's kind of foundational to the work we do we're trying to compare apples to apples to see what types of Landings are most potent when it comes to providing your community with Revenue to provide the services that you want to provide okay so we're going to get into tax systems a little bit this is just kind of foundational just level setting this conversation so this is all 50 states in District of Columbia and how they use tax revenue and the sources that that Revenue comes from you can see like over on the far left most of those States right up to about North Carolina heavily dependent on property tax this is pretty typical throughout the United States more Enlighten states have begun to um diversify their revenue picture and Arizona has a significant amount of what you call um you you call this we would call it a sales tax you call it sales privilege here okay and you can see that um when we go to Arizona that's your breakdown of Revenue sources really quick overview of how your taxes work so you have a limited cash value for that piece of property and you will apply an assessment ratio and reach an assessed value which you multiply by your tax rate to achieve your tax bill so we're just going to walk through that calculation so these are two properties One commercial one residential both full cash value um you can only increase that 5% year-over-year my state where I live in Minnesota is 8% year-over-year so that's a hard cap you have here in Arizona 5% increase year-over-year so you can see that if you try to apply a 10% value increase to that property that's not going to work you the cap but the way you make up for this with commercial property and residential property and by the way this is very typical throughout the US most cities and counties in the United States Tax their commercial property at a higher rate than the residential property but in Arizona what last year your your state legislature passed a bill set a bill 1093 which will lower the commercial assessment rate to 15% in 2027 so you will lose some revenue on your commercial property there you can see that the limit cash value of that property each of them was worth 300,000 commercial is 18 residential is 10 you apply that that rate and then you get the tax bill for each property each year so that's how your taxes work this is where they go how many of you knew that most of it 56 cents out of each dollar went to your school district yeah must have a couple of school board members here um Maricopa County gets a chunk uh community college system gets a chunk City gets pretty little actually 9 cents of every dollar goes to uh the town of Gilbert so your sales privilege is a major part of how you raise revenue for this community to provide services to your residents and this is what we call um a butterfly chart what we're showing you here is on the left your Revenue your income and on the right your expenditures and sort of how those filter out through each fund so what we did here was just looked at your annual uh conference of financial report uh which is something every city in the US does uh and we just want to visualize this in a way that you can start to see how much that sales privilege is supporting stop hitting that now supporting your Public Safety General government services um and it's pretty significant uh because you look down the list at other Revenue sources which are much less and how they're supporting using most of your property tax to support debt service um and some parks no no no parks in there actually that's all system development fees so this is kind of how your your Revenue picture lays out so now we want to jump into total taxable value for Maricopa County so the data set that we got for Gilbert was produced by the county and we actually analyzed the entire County so we also picked up Tempe Mesa Phoenix but we're going to focus on gilber tonight obviously and what you're looking at here is your taxable value per you can see that light green it's fairly dominant within this Metroplex around Phoenix but when you look at the the model sort of in a two-dimensional vertical sense you're starting to see that there are some very potent areas within the Metroplex that support a lot of property taags in particular or sales tax at value per acre and you can see Downtown Phoenix has some really high spikes so those again are not tall buildings per se they're just buildings that buildings and property users that generate a lot of tax revenue for the City of Phoenix the same applies to Gilbert so we're going to isolate Gilbert out here temp's right up on the edge there this is Gilbert primarily kind of flowing into ASA Chandler and tempy but you can see that Gilbert is kind of what we call kind of a shag carpet it's relatively low in terms of the value per acre and when we isolate it out you can see it's almost the vast majority of it is green so that's kind of low value uses okay but here we're going to turn it on its side again and look at U look at those pixie sticks as we like to call them and you can see that you got these five areas of the city that are really po um the uses there are really driving a very high Revenue source for sales tax and for property tax when you turn those off and you just isolate the Heritage District you can start to see how productive the Heritage district is even though it's not fully redeveloped yet you still have a lot of land there to put into use as you just did in your Lego exercise which is a great way to visualize that visualize that so taxable property you have about 64% % of your land area taxable and about 36% non- taxable that's a significant number for a city that's not a capital city or a city without large institutional Property Owners like colleges or churches um and a big chunk of that is actually owned by the city uh by the town of Gilbert for redevelopment purposes in the Heritage district and we're going to jump into that a little bit and again here you can see just another visualization of your balance between non- taxable and taxable this is the Heritage District 48% of it almost half is non- taxable today of course you have plans to change that in the near future so that's something we can um dig into a little bit tonight um your value productivity in the city is relatively low and we're just going to talk about taxable area and taxable value so these are the two metrics we like to use to help you understand how productive your land is this is is really just like farming um you think about the crops that you're going to plant uh year to year or season to season in your case because you have a growing season that's much longer um and you think about what that return on investment will be for you when you plant that crop right now your ratio of taxable area to value is 1 to one and that is about as low as we see in the United States but you have a really important opportunity with the heritage District to start bumping this number up you can see that it's just starting to Edge upward here and this is after the completion of the collab last year and you're really starting to approach one to two which is excellent so I want to talk a little bit about what this looks like at grade when you're walking around in your city what does this look like what does productive land use look like so this is your Walmart um and that runs you about just slightly under $900,000 an acre now Walmart is a large land user they typically have 10 to 14 acre Parcels um their parking is the majority of the space that they take um so this isn't surprising but again we just want to look at that your residential pretty typical um Suburban section here where you've got curb linear roads you've got houses that are probably have about an 8 to 10 foot setback or side setback excuse me um and you've got you know maybe we were kind of guessing earlier today you might be at like six units per acre in this typology this is generating again about the same as the Walmart okay but when you get into your value per acre calculation on things like these Garden departments on the left or the three story lofs on the right you start to see that number edge up so it's about 1.8 million on the garden departments about 3.2 million per acre on that three story and then we just go up from there so this is uh the stara the three large three story large scale Apartments 4.8 four story apartments 6.3 averaging out around 2 million an acre for these types of developments this is really what we're talking about this typology is this missing middle right so you think about anything that's uh shared Wall multif family could be as small as a duplex could be uh a live work unit with mixed use on the main level just what you've created here with your Legos um and anything in between and you have a lot of that here you have some really nice Town Homes you have uh in this in this vignette you can see the town homes here you can see um little denser town home some mixed use your Whole Foods which just killing it at 49.8 million per acre largely the Whole Foods does this because of your sales privilege right because you tax food and there's a retail well established retail user in that ground floor so this property does particularly well here this property in Minnesota by the way we have one that looks almost identical to it in Minneapolis probably doesn't do better than about 25 million an acre because we do not tax food and we do not have local option sales tax so you know all things being equal you're doing really well there want to talk a little bit about commercial and um and then office so your Home Depot again very similar to your Walmart just a little bit better than Walmart not a lot better Super Target not a lot better but about the same these are all kind of in the ballpark U northr grman northr Grumman uh about 1.1 million per acre now this is manufacturing so you have sort of a built-in Workforce here they have to come to work to build something that's a little different than deoe where people probably are working from home so you know standing here today in front of you if bu had a crystal ball and could tell you what would happen with those properties in the future you know um you'd like that a lot I can't do that that but I can guess that deoe is way overp parked given its current um Workforce and when when they come to actually come to work um Ulta Copper Point uh shopping center 2.1 2.3 again compared to the Walmart down here on the left um you can see Copper Point is parked at a level that is reasonable as I was telling you staff earlier today those spaces probably turn every 10 to 20 minutes that's pretty typical for a shopping center like this so I I think that these are performing pretty well at 2.1 2.3 million per acre these sites could be uh used a little bit more intensively but um they're doing fine but this is where things start to get really interesting we're now in the Heritage District the mertile building no off street parking none at one space and it pulls 6.8 million per acre um your historic buildings your heritage buildings are almost always going to pull a very high value per acre and so it's not a preservation play it's an economics play for you to keep those right they're interesting they generate generate a lot of traffic they have deep interest in the retail Market people like to visit because it's interesting people like history even though they didn't like it in high school right so really quick on land use valuation so we didn't do this analysis for Gilbert but we did it recently for a suburb of Indianapolis Mary in Indiana so it's kind of similar in terms of this Metroplex idea right so Phoenix Indie kind of similar um and we were looking at you know what is the number square feet of building parking and Roads per person in the community and so this is how Maran broke down but this is how they're taxing it and I think this represents maybe the biggest opportunity in American cities is to think differently about how you are tax parking um not just from the standpoint of managing incentives around that parking but also um providing yourself with more revenue for land uses that are really under taxed and um and in many cases underutilized so I think it's something for you to consider when you think about parking whether you're building it as a public asset or you're requiring it through your regulatory process so we're going to dive into the Heritage District a little so this is you know this space you probably visit there frequently um these are some of the The Heavy Hitters in the Heritage District so all the way up to 12.8 million per acre that's a relatively small building I drove byy it today and I was like oh that's not very big that's pretty amazing um the collab which just came online last year 15.3 million per acre four stories not higher than the Gilbert water power I did say kind of tongue and cheap but not really that if yall wanted to do something interesting with the water tower you should place it on top of a building so that people can actually see it even better and that might help you with your height issu but what a guy can do right uh value per acre um on this Tempe project uh is 11.9 million 30.7 million and then 47.8 million relatively low slung this is not a super tall building nice where is at its highest for this slowest kind of a nice infill development and admittedly Tempe is definitely moving in this direction right I understand that you're not there yet but that's just an interesting comparison for a neighbor so this we like to call this our Brady Bunch slide but basically this is what you're looking at when you think about your typologies residential and then mixed use high density medium density low density you don't have to do a lot of high density development you just have to do some think of it as balancing your scorecard right when you think of how you're generating Revenue throughout the city and where you have opportunities to do it um that will be sort of easily digestible for the community right so you're not putting this in somebody's back air um just diving in a little bit to sales privilege again it's at 59% it's a big chunk of cash and this is what it looks like this is how it breaks down so a bit of it is conc construction the majority of it is retail and restaurant not surprising to you right I mean that that seems that seems anecdotally true um we looked at it inside your employment areas and outside we wanted to see you know what does sales privilege look like in Central Northwest Heritage banner and Gateway and what we see happening there is the central is your most potent area 36 million Gateway 6 million Banner three 1 million inheritage but going up all the time right and then um 12 million in Northwest so you're really taking good advantage of these areas again when you think about playing to your strengths I'd argue that this is where you double down right you get really serious about how you think about these spaces and their ability to help you generate Revenue this is what your sales tax privilege looks like uh in total numbers and per acre so again here just Apples to Apples looking at these numbers per acre so fairly potent um we also mapped commuting patterns because for a large metro area like the the Phoenix sort of Metroplex you want to know where people are coming from and how they move through that space because that's how they're going to make decisions about where to shop and that impacts your sales privilege um large corporations of course do turning movement studies um they track data on you as a consumer right you can do some of the same things as a city to help you have an advantage in this conversation so you have about 57,000 people coming into your city every day um and about that many people kind of going out towards Phoenix and then we broke it down by your nearest neighbors so you can kind of see where people come in from where they leave um all of this to something called retail leakage how much retail leakage do you have well that's a whole other study but um I would argue get the people to come here and keep them here especially after work right so that's the key now we didn't do your return on investment oh now it's stopped working weird cck or stop uh we didn't do your return on investment calculation but we did a couple of kind of quick and dirty analyses for you so that we could talk with some intelligence about your roadway system and how much your infrastructure is costing so right now you have this much roadway two lane roadway you can drive from Gilbert to Providence would be a really fun trip because you go through seamless um so we also looked at Springfield Missouri uh we finished this project a few months ago Springfield is a capital city it's a relatively large city uh it has a lot of land open area and you can see that uh it's similarly situated with regard to um the parking issue so this would be another level of analysis that we would do it's just the mirror of the slide yeah I don't know why it's there Weir okay anyway um so this is just another way to to look that area versus value calculation it's just an example um but what we found with Springfield was Springfield had been trying to make this decision about annexation so they were looking to the west and they kept annexing uh unincorporated areas to the west of Springfield and when they brought us in we said you know you really can't sustain that that's a real challenge for you going forward and we showed them this data in a visual fashion so they could understand that um their area is really be dominated by land that's not very productive they are probably overp parked in a large number of areas in the city and they need to get that black Square bigger right they need to see more buildings there when gfoa talks about assets they're talking about things like this computer this di these tables right your Public Works trucks but they also say roads are an asset and we admire our friends at gfoa but we disagree with them roads are a massive liability for you they're not an asset can you pick up your roads and sell them to Tempe or Mesa it's not really an asset then it's a but it is forever once you build it you got to maintain it if you live in Minnesota you got to plow it luckily you don't have to do that here um and so we want to know sort of what happens to a road over time you build it you have that initial investment and you can use it for a long time 30 to 50 years depending on Surface material right depending on whether you have snow you don't what to do and then you're doing some maintenance on it right along you're crack sealing it you're seal coating it you're restriping it right but then comes the day when you have to rebuild it and that's the painful moment because that's when the price goes way up and I was telling your staff earlier today early in my career when I was just a puup I rebuilt an entire City's worth of roadways and labor and material costs were expensive but that was early 2000s today we're seeing typically you know 50% 70% increase in labor and materials for road construction so roads are not cheap and they get a lot of use and they get beat up and we have to fix them and so and we'll Del the point but you get it right so this is the cycle once it starts 30 to 50 years from now you do it again you just never end right it's just a constant cycle and you have to think about what that looks like in this space of these private roads which have not been turned back to you yet you don't own these yet the developers still own something you will but you will get them eventually they will become your liability eventually and right now you have 2600 Lane miles roads in G your annual cost let me go back on too quick too quick on the clicker your annual cost system is about 123 million for maintenance Capital Etc so we go to your Revenue picture your Revenue is right now 62 million for these areas of Debt Service development charges your herf your annual revenue and your outweigh is around 60 million 68 million excuse me so you're you got a gap already and the animation is cool until you click and nothing happens um so your life cycle costs on these roads are about 55 million you're just not generating enough Revenue to support the system already today now by the way don't feel bad about this because I have yet to find an American city that is generating enough Revenue to cover their cost for infrastructure and some are much worse off than you are but it is something that you need to keep in the front of your mind as you think about your biggest asset which is your land right and how that land is helping to generate Revenue but really we we weren't generating that much revenue until downtown Gilbert started to get um regenify and then SanTan mall everything along the 60 all those all that money was going to to Mesa so it's really going to be interesting to see what happens the years coming now that we actually have people come right so I think I've covered that adequately Le you become too depressed so this is about where you stand today half your systems affordable about half of it's unaffordable okay so we wanted to map some different scenarios for you because part of the challenge of doing this work everything okay I was just going to get you a second clicker keep going oh yeah okay um part of the challenge of kind of envisioning where you should be headed with this is to know what's happening today but if you made these incremental changes what could happen tomorrow so this is the magic of what um I think you were doing tonight with Lego exercise really trying to be creative about this again this is just your value per acre isolating Our Heritage District so existing tax revenue on Heritage is 3.8 million and again I don't know who made the decision to buy up these parcels and hold them for devel but I think that person should get a community award because when you do that you position yourself as a municipality to be in the driver's seat and controlling the outcome and if you try to work with a developer to do that it's invariably painful so the way that you handled it was really smart in my opinion um so here we are looking at Heritage this is your area the gray is not taxable the blue is taxable the collabs there by the Water Tower and this is a under entitlement currently is that right South better yay thank you than so much so let's dig into uh the this parcel right here this is 325 Ash Street in the district this is what became with blab and you can see that before in 2018 when we did your initial looked at initial from 2018 and then we looked after 2022 so that that's what it's generating currently in a minute I'm going to get to all these you'll see all these roll up in a minute so that's in progress got this one Milli relatively small input in terms of density right this is not like a hugely dense project um but it's going to generate a lot of revenue for the city about 163% inrease and as we look at the other projects in this District South anchor which is moving along uh again right now it's just an empty surface L you can see this is a project that's going to generate 18 La town home units a cafe with retail live work restaurant retail current with South anchor 57 great projecte about 121% increase for those Parcels value Pur and then the last one is the Gilbert owned Parcels that are additional to this you're working through those that's just a huge inventory you've got to work through um tough market right now we hope it starts to shift a little bit um I can't count the number of Market Cycles I've been through in my career but usually you know 3 to five years it kind of pivots you go go go on to a new thing so these are your vacant Parcels currently this is what you're pulling from these Parcels currently with your vacant Parcels developed we think you're going to be in the range of 317 million now we don't ascribe to the idea that you should be fanciful with your numbers we're very conservative with our estimates so you could do better I'm sure you could do better but about a 2 124% increase are yeah now when you're saying a little over 300 million and there's a $61 million deficit so you're saying if I'm interpreting this correctly you're saying that would balance the road deficit plus just your road deficit right but just those buildings will balance the road deficit but is that Val or is that taxable value like I mean you're saying are you're generating 317 in revenue from taxes that's a value and I think this is taxes after okay because then it wouldn't net out the roads even well she's saying it will net out the roads barely that was well not with the ongoing maintenance I guess is what I was saying 7. million get in Rue okay so again in this is annoying I don't know why this is here but this says one to five so you've reached about 353 on those Gilbert owned Parcels in terms of your total value and your tax revenue so you're you know you're you're on your way to 11.7 million in additional Revenue annually if you fully develop that Heritage District I say we give it to so um skip right over that so what you can can do I we like obviously we like Geo accounting we think it's a very powerful tool I think it makes this conversation with constituents much easier um I think that generally people like uh to understand economics and like to understand how things work and this is a great visualization of just that issue um and and it's very relatable they understand that house they live in the flow density residential is not generating as much revenue the city as the mixed juice project on the lower right um it's it's an app to Apples comparison focus on your most productive uh areas you've already done that tonight you've delved into your your newest Redevelopment opportunity here um you're focusing um on the Heritage District that's terrific as I said Double Down play to your strengths right so this is what it looks like for you right now these areas are generating a lot of prot it for tax revenue purposes primarily for your sales privilege but also property tax and you can think about this if you think about this in a value per acre and you spread that across the city you're always looking at that so again miles per gallon not miles per tank right so think of your existing Investments you're going to you're going to build roads you're going to rebuild roads you're going to maintain them and think about how you're um going to fully utilize them you're paying for it anyway that is the skin in the game that you have as a municipality uh and I I also think again after doing this for many years U professionally I think we're probably undervaluing uh that infrastructure if you don't build that road they won't come they won't build it themselves there's definitely a butt for test here right but for your investment in that infrastructure that development would not happen so think about how you're pricing it it's a very valuable input that you're making as as a local government and again you're just not you're not penciling out on your roads right now uh the other thing I'll just say about this though is you know you also don't have to build more roads you have lots of Roads so you can think about how to use the on you have more effectively too that to put too fine point on it um consider your infl opportunities and gentle density so again you don't have to build a 10 story or 20 Story Tower you don't have to be tempy you just have to build a little bit of density a little bit of a different type techology to gain significant benefits at the collab that five five stories four build and feed your Golden Goose so your Golden Goose is Heritage District you just saw it you know you're you're facing about a 350% increase in your uh Revenue generation from that site keep working on this keep focused on this um It just strikes me that this is just a golden opportunity and again this is what your your numbers look like combined scenarios so again these are pretty conservative in how we're thinking about these numbers um I understand you all got a copy of this book tonight congratulations great book Chuck uh recovering civil engineer um super interesting guy we works a lot with strong towns just to try and um you know work with our partners in local government many of us all of us on the urban 3 team had roles in local government uh for either planners or managers of some fashion and we know how this system works and uh we know how it doesn't work so we want to make it better because our hearts are in local government and then I think you've all seen this before but this is you know V diagram wants and needs you know it doesn't not always possible to have all the things we want right um this is not an easy message to deliver to constituents but it is real because the alternative is that you raise taxes to the point where they don't want to live here right so think differently about how you're using your land assets this is me if you want to reach out thank you and initially you said that we're at a one: one maybe approaching one to two almost at one to two but isn't the ideal one to five yeah one to five so how do we get there yeah by redeveloping your Heritage District that will get us to one to five right the development scenarios you gave us for land use are what we plugged into this model so if you move forward with the projects that are in the pipeline currently uh there's a good chance that you will get to that 350% increase in and if we took another section let's say whether it was the Northwest Coral or rivon some of some of these areas and went denser such as those plants we could get to the 1 point one to five you can get to the 1 to five just in the Heritage District but again Citywide that's a that's a different scenario right you have lots of infill opportunities so think about each one of those as a savings bond how do you want to invest that you know think about that as an instrument that you would invest so but essentially the Heritage District can kind of I hate to say it this way but it kind of saves the the the cake for everybody there well I think I think it puts you on a path where you are more economically sustain in the future and then the other parts can be infilled done right correctly maybe as D maybe not but to exceed that at okay but even just a little bit more density right density is a dirty word I get it okay but even just a little bit more is going to make those properties cash flow for you right not the developer but for you as a local government you're providing services in the roads the water and sewer you want that property to cash for you and council member tus and just for a point of clarity we provided Urban 3 the master plan from the Redevelopment plan and so that's how they were able to make determinations on the land use anyone's looking you can find that in the Redevelopment kind your maximum build out scenario questions so essentially our goal is to maximize not density but maximize the use in the Heritage District to get to a one to five to where we can pay for the infrastructure for the rest of the city and then you can focus on developing other pockets and projects within the town and not being a deficit like that that'll essentially stabilize the future of Gilbert and then we can pick and choose which projects we want to participate in and where we want to focus your time and attention and money I think that's a nice synopsis I think it puts you in a posture Where You Are sustainable that that would always be your goal right you don't deficit spend in your own houses um you know you think about that right can I take that vacation this year can I buy that new car right sounds like what we need to do for Gilbert to retire to clarify Heather um I I think those those are great questions to remember and put into context the Heritage district is 3/4 of a mile three sorry square miles I even round it up um out of 72 square miles so I think what Heather is sharing is the value in looking at um however we can insulating development through things like mixed use and other other products that bring about different types of uses to increase that value per acre proposition um but that starts to solve for the Heritage district and to council member tason's prayer question again that starts to solve for the Heritage District if you were to put these is in context with the town that doesn't um address infrastructure challenges in the rest of the 72 s mil so obviously we need to start somewhere um but it's I think that this is a conversation that I know when we saw it the first time when we did the council exercise in August it was a really eye openening experience for the town and so we wanted to bring it to Redevelopment commission and Planning Commission so as you're reviewing cases you can think about it um in addition to the lenses that you already view it through through this lens and then our intent is to be able to use this model and think differently about other projects throughout the town as well awesome you're shouldn't that be staff really steering the developers that way well they already kind of are and you know the biggest question is how do we translate this Theory to Citizens that you saw it right there multifam is millions of dollars per but Noah I think the point would be that as a commissioner and you you that everybody take a step back and look at what they like what they want personally and take a look back and say as the whole how do we do something that is not uh overly impactful let's say to a particular neighborhood you you don't have a four-story apartment actually a bunch of one story houses but to maybe take that that bite and uh go back and say well the world's changing how do you know how do we justify intensify something along the 202 I mean I know people that No it should be I used to be able to see corn there and well that's all good and fine but at some point we're going to have to recognize that and relay in each one of our individual positions that to continue the the life the the reason you moved here the roads the the parks all the things that we expect to afford them we're going to have to give up something and it doesn't have to be your left arm it has to be maybe a project over next to a freeway or something in the Heritage District that's six stories maybe or something in rivon that you don't necessarily really like but that's going to help Propel the lifestyle that everybody moved here for and I think it's communication from every person to not not shy away from the conversation be like oh okay I understand you don't like apartments and I don't like Apartments but at a certain point there's you have to have them and you know with new new housing here starting at $450,000 then it's attainable for some it's not affordable for all uh we're going to have to we're going to have to rethink a little bit about what we expect and communicated that each role that we have and I think understanding where density makes sense where do we want to look at the balance of uses and where do we want to look at different types of uses and I think that's where this really becomes really helpful to and understanding exactly what those types of products bring to the community you correct are we thinking that we want to go a little bit more dense in the Heritage District that's a that's a big question and I think that that's a question that's in front of both commissions and the council to ultimately provide some direction to staff for when and where it makes the most sense well but I think what's interesting is if you look at the collab that's not density no and that's the value per acre right the the total tax so that's when you get in those conversations with the developers we like we don't need office it's like uh I'd probably argue opposite looking at this right and the East Valley has very little goodlooking office that's decent so that's why it does really well as well but when you come to let's say I I would prefer to be fees simple rather than Apartments but uh x amount of people living on an acre with those State shared revenues all the things that come in from that that's important the money they spend the money they generate locally if you had right you need you need density to support the business in the area absolutely but I'm just the right area I'm just taking that collab building I mean that's that's eye opening to me that wow that's generating what it is as an office building mixed use right right so it doesn't have to be one or the other I think planning's done an excellent job it would be interesting for me I mean kind of fast forward year two years from now to look at what the Tyler's doing with that mixed use and how they they've built that out and then be able to say okay let's drop this into that same model and see did that get a spike right that can be found out quickly can is it possible to do last year um to look at the collab and see if there was mixed use and they did go one floor higher and they did apartments or did something up there how much that would have affected or if that you know how much more positive it would have affected things we can run um almost endless scenarios uh which I think is a useful tool the other thing we're developing and I told staff about this today is what I'm fondly calling a municipal proforma tool so developers will bring you their proforma they'll show it to you they'll say you know this project doesn't pencil we need X number of dollars of tip or some kind of a batement or subsidy um we've developed a tool that will arm local government to have that conversation on the uh Revenue infrastructure Services side of the balance sheet and so that should be I think um something that can really help you guide decisions that are more economic in nature at least including the economics in the conversation um because frequently uh we all know these conversations um become more about the typology and the density and height and other things and not so much about um the economics for the community so that's one tool that we can do that was about $3 million yeah Gilbert uh Gil the Heritage District won't bail you out but it's going to be an important pivot point for you as a community uh as you think differently about your land assets and how to use them I think what you're saying is that if we're going to sustain ourselves long term we have to go high density yes it's inevitable I didn't say that you didn't say that no uh I think you have to have some density in this I mean some density not everything I mean but you have to have more of it is what I I meant to say yeah I think you have to have some density and I don't even think it needs to be high density because I think of high density as like 30 story concrete steel construction I think you could move into the up to 10 stories in some areas and Achieve densities that would carry you economically I don't think it has to be all or nothing I didn't mean that I meant that we going to see more high density and we see a lot of apartments in in Chandler and Tempe Mesa and now I kind of understand why they're being built is they need that Revenue to sustain themselves going forward right right I'm assuming well in Tempe my understanding from talking with people in uh staff over the last few days and um the manager there was my mentor for many years but I understand that tempy took a long time to get to the point where they were ready to build a lot of height so there was a a kind of a building up to that right as a community and in particular their downtown I don't think that was an overnight thing and I think the same thing could happen here in Gilbert where you will gradually Embrace um more density in certain areas where it fits to Mary's point right some areas of the city it's not going to fit you're certainly not going to put it in the backyard of somebody over here right where I came through all these neighborhoods the named neighborhoods uh you're not going to put it there of course you're not you Heritage excuse me big part of Tempe is asu's increased attendance I know Dr crob there is big on trying to get as many in there as he can get as many educated so they built that high higher density to support the increase in attendance it's justifiable part of that problem over there some of the buildings you're anticipating being Tempe are owned by ASU and generate nothing for Tempe yeah many most of those building correct there are a bunch of own by it's on land and the people that get it don't pay it either exactly I think one of the examples that was really interesting um that Urban 3 provided is the Whole Foods project that you saw in there obviously that's not a project in Gilbert but what that highlights is the value of a mixed use project because it has a residential component and a commercial component and that's something that we've had and Grocery and Grocery and I've had some discussions around and to your question I think that there's always a multitude of um factors that play into whether or not the market supports multi family whether or not it's zoned for that whether or not the surrounding uses make sense whether or not I mean there's any number of things and so I don't know it's if it's as binary as um an outcome that's uh that could come from that it's always weight in terms of impact use surrounding uses any number of other things that s so I don't to your point I don't know if the other cities made those decisions based on what they thought would come as a result probably more so a blend of what do we have an inventory what do we see that we need an inventory what's the housing market like any number of those conversations make sense we talk a lot of we talk a good comprehensive plan uh in America but we very infrequently e exercise or execute a good comprehensive plan uh this tool will allow you to just have another layer of data it's just a more compelling discussion when you understand the members well and and were you we're using these kind of tools as we consider the projects that we're completing in Gilbert so as we're looking towards a third parking structure what assets do we need to include in that that do generate Revenue because otherwise that asset is simply liability for us and then Heather you mentioned even that um most parking structures that you're seeing now are not the angled right parking but flat structures that can now be repurposed in future if ever needed um yeah I think there's so many question marks when it comes to Transportation right now not to go on a complete detour no pun intended but um I think the problem with Transportation right now is understanding autonomous vehicles for one thing um what will the demand side of that look like for layover parking for curbside there's a lot of considerations there so parking is always a little bit of a tenuous public investment but I think it needs to be really carefully considered right now um and I was driving through Heritage today and there's quite a bit of publicly owned parking in that District already um and one thing you can think about is like how would you activate that ground level floor of a future public parking garage so you know you could do a lot worse than to put a grocery store in the basement right or in the first first level excuse me yeah mat whole is in Tempe right I think that's what said yeah so if you took that and then in on that property correct made it in include the parking that we make would make that same development include what would that number be I because I think that's where there is a lot of struggle here is like more density but but we make it so hard for developers to come in and and kind of pitch something different or get these deviations and so you couldn't just take that Whole Foods building and plop it in Gilbert and expect the same outcome because we require so much parking per square foot of commercial and so much parking per bedroom in the residential so that number wouldn't be the same because it would have a greater land like piece of land that it's sitting on to meet all of the requirements that that we have here so it it's not Apples to Apples if you couldn't take that put it here and accept expect the same outcome possibly so I can't speak to that particular development I I haven't been in that but Whole Foods has built those all over the US and typically they have a parking component that's uh either partially underground or fully underground and at grade um and so they do have parking in them and I don't know what the requirements are it may has they have easier because they have more people could mock there or take some kind of public transportation so it's not their parking standards are not as um rigorously are but even if it was worth half the amount 25 million it would still penc out makes sense and I think the point what I'm getting from this is that fastest Roi that the town has return on investment for infrastructure and getting people to come here is the Heritage District because we own a lot of the real estate somebody was has been acquiring it for a very long time and use the road analogy of if we're in a deficit of all the roads and the repairs and maintenance on it so if you think about two miles exiting the freeway to get to downtown Gilbert that's where a lot of money is spent yes we can maximize the return on investment it's the quickest and easiest thing we could do for to offset a lot of the other expenses that the town has you also don't know today what kind of momentum that will create in the market so somebody said in a meeting yesterday that he doesn't like to come to Heritage because he likes to ride his bike and there's never a place to park that's what he said which made me laugh because I drove around there I was like well this looks pretty well parked um but uh one of the things that's really interesting about these kinds of uses is when you activate them they often have this sort of duplicative effect on surrounding properties so it's hard to measure that n impossible but we've seen it over and over and over again um projects take time to develop and develop a following interest um city of St Louis Park in the Twin Cities Metroplex did a massive project like this about 15 years ago it is just now starting to kind of come into its own to really generate interest in that area and it was a really underdeveloped area so Heritage probably won't take that long because you've already get there's already something there you know so that's hard to measure but I think that has an impact as well so yes so I I I think the presentation was awesome um and but I I guess the information was very enlightening but I think it is like everybody here needs to be careful my takeway is is that density is positive and it would be super helpful and obviously the Heritage district is a low hanging fruit but I think taking it past the line of then dictating use types to the developers is to developers to private developers is not going to help it's going to hurt like I've heard people oh we like the collab the office is great no one's building Suburban office right now and because of the demand side there's no demand for Suburban office no one will build Suburban office right now so you will not see another collab project for quite some time um Whole Foods will not go to downtown Gilbert I'll tell you right now the demographics do not support it within a 135 Mile Trade they want higher traffic counts I've talked to them uh so you won't see that particular Pro like you H I think you have to be careful yes density is a good thing but private develop the developer will tell you what what the demand side is and you can't I don't think you can shove them in a box on what the Ed type is um because it'll never get built so can push F you can push some of those things 100% yeah you can give I think if you give them more of a creative box to work within that's what I hear you say give them the creative box I just want to be careful like we can say we love this 10B project this Whole Foods collab was a success great but you can't just go we want that I think you have to be very careful to def to define a a a box that gives them the creativity but then hear them when they're like no I I can't build a 30 or the whole food small Footprints 20 to 30,000 foot I can't build a 30,000 foot box here and expect a Leon and you have to be we have to be receptive when they go it won't work like I you know I can I I just I think that needs to be you know you got to be careful give them creativity give them the tools to build a cool higher density project or middle density project I guess in the grand scha things TJ I think a lot of the developers too they they they try to just do apartments or just do one thing for Simplicity with working with the municipalities that they don't want the complexity of you know having to go through every single phase for restaurant for retail for single family use it's like I just want to build something simple and quick and then get out of here and move on to the next one yeah right well and and I don't I don't disagree with you that office is tough but I think where we get stuck is developers wanting to come in and develop 50 100 200,000 square feet and then lease the entire thing out to one tenant versus coming in and going like a collab which is actually more partialled out now I'm not saying that that needs to be done or we need to direct developers but maybe encourage that type of thing where it's like hey we need smaller office for development because when you get walkability when you get a a condensed area like that it bodess to the lived life you know get in all one space so I'm not arguing against that no I I I deal with I deal with it all the time I agree I mean I work directly with the developers in a lot of situations but uh and so and a lot of times I'm the one tasked with leasing it out so I have to handle all the rejections um but uh but no I I don't disagree it's just my counter to that would be the underwriting significantly changes like their ability to pencil certain numbers if you're you know if you're if you're budgeting or or planning for a average office size of 2 200 feet versus a corporate HQ you're underwriting just got flipped on set what you can borrow for what you can sell it for like the whole thing just flips and your parking requirements are big part of that huh your parking requirements are a big part of that yeah um yeah I'm not telling you anything you don't know but um especially for housing parking number pencils so I think this is like it's a question mark for you how do you handle that into the future so those regulatory levers you can pull that's where you have the most ability to shape these things you can't control the market you can't make people go back to work in an office so have to think about how you're activating the space how you're making really uh important public Investments but very strategically right yeah I think we also make it difficult by having people in entitlements for 9 to 12 months just trying to get zoning like on the private side I don't really like to do projects in Gilbert I think they're unnecessarily difficult sometimes which was my motivation to to get on the Planning Commission was like we can as a person as a resident of Gilbert for over 20 years like we can create some change and have it have developers want to come to the table with the town and be able to build something great but the town has to give them something in return a year in entitlements is not it's just not motivating to to work on a project here and there and there are so many factors that go into that timeline and and developers we take our time on resubmittals too so I'm not saying that it's totally the town but some of our you know um development standards are are a little bit old and the town's ability to adjust or be able to look at something as a whole and not just say but it doesn't fit within this table in the zoning code and so now you have to go through this cumbersome process like that's not helpful and that's we're going to run into that trying to fill all these little infill pieces because infill is hard to begin with but then when you put these development standards that are set for kind of larger developments or more typical developments onto this um property that's so constrained then developers walk away they're like I just can't even make anything work here and so I think that there are some changes there that need to happen to to get to where we want to get to in the Heritage district and all over town these infill pieces CU there are quite a few tiny pieces that got just left behind when a sub division came in and this was a small little commercial weird parcel that it just needed to be there at the time I don't know and now it's taking forever for somebody to come in so we need to be able to be more flexible with those things thank you for your a questions appreciate your attention and yeah thank you thank you just to put a quick bow on all of this again you know we wanted to bring Urban 3 out here because we're trying to shift the way that we're thinking about being a fiscally sustainable community in the long term and so we'll continue bringing back these conversations and ideas to not only among staff but certainly amongst you as Commissioners um to help us as we um proceed with that endeavor so um we have one of two options we can move into the parking presentation right now or we can take a five minute break five minutes okay get m e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e are we ready to wrap up our evening talking about parking the most emotionally thing we can talk about okay are we ready okay so we wanted to have just a quick update and conversation about shared parking we know Planning Commission that you don't um always oversee projects within the Heritage District but they they come in for a rezone plan area development um shared parking questions do come up so we want to be able to talk about that um in Gilbert and in as a best practice for downtowns we try to think of parking as your first and last impression and so as we look at our shared model we continue to think about what that means so why does Gilbert have a Shar parking model it's ultimately because it provides a more walkable Urban environment where you can park once and go to multiple places it maximizes that sales tax revenue generation that we heard from um Heather about maximizes the opportunity to utilize valuable develop the land it can create efficiencies through shared uses um so that reduces the amount of structured parking that's necessary and overall it increases development value in Gilbert we've had a shared parking model since 2005 when the Village Center zoning was instituted we've done two comprehensive Master plans one in 2015 and one in 2021 the sheared parking model allows for an administrative use permit so a development can come in they can apply for administrative use permit to offsite Park up to 100% of their parking requirements so long as it's a non-residential use so how does that work they come in they apply for that on planning staff and Redevelopment staff work together to identify um what um what amount of access parking we currently have that has not been committed through other administrative use permits we verify that and then allow them them to proceed with their application the parking masterer plan that we have was developed in 2021 and it shows our existing parking Supply numbers you'll hear a little bit of an update here but we have about 5,400 parking spaces total between um private and public spaces if you were to look at a map of where those parking spaces are look something like this except for Heritage Park which you've seen we estimate that that project which is um just about 10 acres removed 584 spaces from that um the vacant lot that had the decomposed Granite uh parking cells on it and 41 spaces from the Burger King in the meantime we did add we took those mailings from onsite and moved them over just west of the University building and added about 255 parking spaces there is on street parking as well throughout the entire Heritage District um and one thing to note you as we look at these um counts here back this real quick um today if we look at just our access inventory again parking that has not been committed to a project we have approximately 600 stalls we do have a couple of projects that are in um planning that we're anticipating utilizing that share parking which would reduce us to about 300 stalls this is again just parking inventory so let's get to what adequacy means versus parking inventory um on one other note we just wanted to share this we do have an interactive map gosh how many times have you gone to a place you have no idea how or where to park like we're we're trying to inform the public by sharing these uh parking locations that are free parking at this moment um as well as the r share locations and if you click on it it tells you how many stalls we would like to take that a step further we heard from our counterparts in TBI that they're working with Google to actually help map you a parking location when you go downtown so we'd like to mirror something like that in the future as we look at Future parking needs and we again we looked at the Redevelopment plan and what was anticipated for land uses then we apply that to how many parking stalls if we were to take out all of these parking stalls tomorrow how many parking stalls do we need to build in order for this main core portion of the district to be sustainable you'll see the sc's those me selfcontained meaning that on those projects we have already anticipated them self parking and so in order to meet the demand in the future as we build out we're anticipating about 2100 stalls and that doesn't mean that guer has to build all of those stalls that can be shared between Gilbert and the development community and we're working towards understanding what that balance is in that core portion so again just a couple of um important notes the parking master plan plan not only talks about the supply and adequacy today um it also talks about parking management strategies which I'll touch on in just a minute um I really highly suggest that I can send this up afterwards there's an active parking Management in the Heritage District video that just talks about how do we better manage and facilitate parking um and then the great news is this so again our parking master plan was uh finished in 2021 um 2024 is a very different time we have had 5.5 million visits to downtown in the last year so you think about that and you think about the impact that that has on parking we've asked Walker Consultants to create um an update to our parking conditions so they were actually here in March they were here um all through uh the weekend so they were able to take direct parking counts not only on a Friday night but a Saturday morning when we have the farmers market and really understand again what is that parking inventory but even more important what the adequacy is so adequacy is the question of how long does it take you to park so we have a parking structure that has 500 stalls just as a scenario and 425 of them are used how do you get to those other 75 cells you have to drive around right so that decreases the adequacy even though you have the parking Supply why and so we're asking them to tell us you know what is the real number for ad parking that we have on hand today to take that one step further as I mentioned the parking and uh master plan calls out parking management strategies so now we can think about um things like parking enforcement we've had a conversation with Council in August about this at the council Workshop we're going to be bringing back additional um considerations for them in December but let's just talk about that parking structure again 500 stalls let's say you have 100 employees in the area utilizing that parking structure what if they all parked at the top of that because now you're enforcing parking where your employees are utilizing that top of structure and it lessens the amount of time you have to drive around as a visitor so there's a lot of opportunity for enforcing parking um the master plan also called out the length of time that people were parking in Prime parking spots so this is parking spots right adjacent to a business they're really easy to get two surface lots and we found on average that they were parking there a minimum of four hours those people are not those 5.5 million visits or 1.1 1.2 million visitors it's individuals who work in the district it's our students and they're incredibly important to the ecosystem of our heritage District but what if we could park them at a different location so that those Prime spaces open up and that curb can turn over those parking spaces can turn over and we can generate more revenue for our heritage District that's a parking management strategies can do for us same thing with time limits as we see um increase in particularly um during and after Co Uber Eats door Dash GrubHub um retail Target I can order online and pick up curbside those time limit parkings are going to uh time limit parking is going to help with that we've already started some curb management you guys have seen probably the r share loading zones those are heavily utilized we have exact numbers from this um this spring to share with you so we're excited about that but that curbside management also requires curbside management for commercial loading and we haven't gotten there yet so it's an opportunity for us um it's great to build these multi-million dollar parking structures but what happens when people can't find how to get to them so that's why with the signage and w in comes in play um Sydney vessel price has been working diligently on a comprehensive W finding plan um that was recently completed and we're going into fabrication for that way finding signage again to help people find the services like parking that they need throughout the district we're having um discussions with Council about how do we fund this long term it's great that we've built this uh these facilities but how do we in the long term um pay for the operations and management of them and then certainly we love our special events in downtown they're very important to um to the osphere um to visitation and again increasing that sales tax revenue but we have to be able to park them so again we're we're taking some of these strategies and recommendations from the parking master plan and having those comprehensive conversations with Council on how do we prioritize these strategies it's going to take staff if you want enforce parking you have to have somebody out there enforcing it um so it's going to take additional Staffing additional funding um to really be thoughtful about that parking management and as we heard you know we we um we met with a group of downtowns from across the state on Monday and one of our downtown C reports literally said I will never drive you to downtown because I can never find parking um it's always an interesting conversation for me because I I work at downtown right and I have H season tickets to hail theater so I'm down there you know nine months on a Friday or Saturday and I've never once been had to drive around for parking so I guess afterwards if you want to know where I park out we talk off the but um we want everyone to be able to know how to find those parking spaces and we want we want it to be adequate parking so what is the future of parking look like we do have in our um recent infrastructure Bond we bonded for a third parking structure we're looking to right size that garage again to the conversation we've had with Urban 3 what what benefit does a single use provide you know are there opportunities to recapture some Revenue with that certainly understanding where where it goes and how many spaces we need right now but in the meantime we're also looking at in um adding additional temporary Lots so we have a project named uh Von ventilator that will connect on Avenue um it will parallel the uprr and it will tie in imately at the end of that road is a uh detention Basin we are looking to move that detention Basin we can then fill in the current detention Basin and use that as temporary parking so staff is hyper focused on how we phase our projects in order to ensure that not only we have the inventory for parking but that parking adequacy I mentioned commercial loading zones being an important part of we certainly have had some congestion when we have you know deliveries happening in the middle of a street um and then we're asking the question what is the development responsibility how much do we want them to contribute and that's certainly not a staff level um decision that's a council and policy level question that we'll continue to ask as we uh converse with them in December and so I'm really opening this up not only for questions but you know any feedback that you may have ways that we can make our parking better so that we can bring it to council be we have vice mayor and council member Tuson here today but we want to incorporate your thoughts um and comments into the dialogue that we have with Council in December so parking first and last impression questions about how we do it thoughts on it well my thoughts are that the the way to find that parking is the most important important and an educating component to people that are coming there and I don't know whether that means like the signage as you're coming into it that it distinctly shows a colored map of where you would go because I don't think it's really that big of a deal for most people to park even you know like get the back of where the college is and then just walk down there whenever I go down I park at the way back of the parking lot where we just developed that big box thing we call Apartments because I like to be as far away from people as possible because I don't trust them um but you know so so that's so to me it's like that's not a big deal and I think there's a lot of consumers that wouldn't mind if it was clear and concise here's where you go um and and I don't know I think implementing technology that shows whether that's directly with an app but also in a parking garage where you could actually show Which floor has how many sites open and things like that like when you go to the airport and you see you always see the thing it says closed and then you see some guy that knows better and he drives in there and you know he's just going to drive around Miss flight that's his prerogative but if you have some way to take technology I think that's the key that we need to begin to push into this because it will help consumers now all are Adept at using this even old guys like us that are using apps for everything I them beautiful ref I then us like me and Y not SP young fellas like yourself um but yeah so I think that the technology and the the knowledge however we translate to the public of where these spaces are how to get to them and then how to navigate out is is key to what he said I believe it's the Glendale Galleria in California I remember going through there and it would say you know L1 and give numbers specifically to what's open so because everybody would push for those first few seat you know first few uh spots and boom you're up just going and parking was turning over fast and if you've ever been in that place it's insane it's was built in 1978 I think or 77 and it is still absolutely insanely busy but they get get their people in and out chairman commissioner Tas and I I really appreciate that comment and we are certainly looking at additional Technologies so much that uh we're seeing we're even seeing sensor technologies that can be installed per like in a stall to tell you if there's a car there or not and you can literally know exactly which stall you're going to um so the Technologies available it's you know how do we again what are the tradeoffs in cost um and how do we how do we ultimately findun this we got something in there that shocks teenagers when they going I not seen working on yeah I was going to say I've never had a a problem parking downtown and I'm down there quite frequently so it's not that difficult yet it sounds from the sounds of your presentation you're heading towards parking meters or paid parking um commissioner I I I can't answer that question that's certainly a policy level question um I don't think we've necessarily had conversations about meters but certainly about time limited parking enforcing time limited parking in order for a curb to turn over um and certainly how we fund paid parking um is really really up to to council but there's a lot of ways that it could be funded and so I'll share this you know it doesn't necessarily have to be I'm a visitor and I'm going to go and pay at the meter or pay by an app it can be a parking Management District that enacts a tax on you know re you know your sales um as you go to a restaurant it can be fom where we again put that cost back to development there's just there's a lot of opportunities um and we shared some of those with with Council in August and hope to have a little bit more direction as we continue to talk with them on how do we find that long term because the reality is uh parking structures are very costly and diverse I think on a long enough timeline it has to be paid because you need to create a financial incentive to people to turn those parking spots over that's it's simple is it in the guidelines it it says that there's you can't charge for parking um CH k the guidelines do not call out um the inability to charge for parking however in some of our development agreements we have uh written in stipulations that the developers can't charge for parking largely because we don't want what we don't want to happen is we're building maintaining and operating all of this parking and if I'm an individual going to visit one single development site and I have to par pay to park there but I don't have to pay to park anywhere else I'm going to go wherever else and I'm have to pay so right now at this moment we're trying to create a Level Playing Field for all of the parking inventory that we manage for future development um you know no no um on-site parking is required for retail but residential or multi family it is required um commissioner molo yes so our residential requires um on-site parking and then is it first come first serve or we we're trying to build parking garages before we key building retail um let me think about how how I answer this um are you are you asking commissioner Bigalow um like as a business or as a development comes in it's just whatever uh available inventory if a developer comes in tomorrow and there's available inventory that you can apply for the administrative use perit yes but what you're saying is if another developer comes in and that inventory is no longer there they could not and and that would be the reality when we can't allow parking if we don't have the parking available and then and then um and I'm naive and ignorant when it comes to building parking garages and especially Going Underground however with residential I'm shocked at how cheap it is to build basement and that not every home in Arizona has one have have they have we gotten hard numbers on how much it is to to go underground I'm not aware of any numbers commissioner molo that we have had recently but certainly as we go through this process of a third parking structure that will be something we examine and we'll have better numbers done more than it cost to go up yeah is the answer I I would argue that I really would when I build something I'm going to go down and have my own part it's cheap well and saying basements are cheap that's relative compared to if I'm a Builder building 300 houses I'm going and I don't have to by any code I'm not going to do it because I'll sell them for the same amount and it's it's been probably four or five years since I've done a garage and it was about 35,000 a stall so they're not cheap and and I don't even want to know what escalation puts to that but I've worked in downtown Phoenix I've worked in downtown Scottsdale I've had to pay to park as an employee in both environments which is just a statement take it for what we want to like consider but if if you are in those um density is a dirty word we said so but you're in those more high density environments um there are maybe those shared parking agreements there then um you as an employer you're you're you you are sharing those parking situations and if I wanted to park I had to pay or I had to figure something else out and and that's just I guess something that you become comfortable with once that just becomes the normal um I don't know just a statement yeah I've been I've been pretty outspoken on parking um so I think I bugged Amanda like once maybe once a year about the vau garage you probably know where I'm headed with this but I think like town could take it to an extreme and really start to ask should it even could could it even potentially not be a town problem to build a new garage um there's a lot of uh Equity groups out now right now that are solely out there just purchasing parking structures because they want to manage it charge and they will Val huh Val no most of them don't but a lot of them in downtown Phoenix right now picked up a lot of parking structures CU they want that the the management of the parking structures and then they they increase rates I think the town could go to the extreme and say maybe we look at privati or choosing with a couple lots to have privatized parking structures and put it on the developer and then the town never has to worry about how to service maintain and upkeep the parking structure leave it to private to figure out how to do it I don't think that's a good idea because they're thinking about bottom line so they're going to increase prices as much as they can as much as they can and as much as about is bottom line right so I would totally disagree with having a private company come and and they own operate if they want to charge they charge if they want to risk $40 a stall and they don't get anybody that's on them and then they lower price you have no choice but to pay right right exactly when it gets really busy you may not have a choice right so I think that's like the extreme I was surprised on Heather's presentation it'd be interesting to see if you've started to analyze the underlying values of parking structures that do pay uh I didn't see that on there but I'm sure you have it uh but I do also think there's an alternative too where I mean we've talked about it I know the V garage is slated for power water sewer on the first row parking stalls along uh in between Oso running north south all the way to Culinary Dropout um there's a couple projects Sano in California one in Texas that they took the first Bay of parking structures and converted it into small footprint retail so I think if the town wanted to build it they should plan retail on the ground floor at a minimum and that could just retail revenues by itself could cover especially the demand in the Heritage District could cover the cost of ongoing maintenance and upkeep of the parking structure or you could just privatize that component I think you could commercial condo off the retail ground floor maintain control and ownership of floors two through five and behind the retail and then bring in private individual for the retail on the front so I think there's a hybrid too that would that would work and commissioner I appreciate that comment we did when we built the herway garage we did build it to a standard in which that first level could eventually be transitioned into retail if the town ever chooses to do so but man wasn't it uh the previous Council that said they didn't want to be landlords correct corre yes which doesn't mean the current Council wouldn't be land I'm just saying yes that's correct nobody saying anything crazy I'm not saying I would be a slow Lord that's why I brought up you could commercial condo off and sell just that sell that piece and then you'd collect I don't know how the town would $60 million ho that in creates to build is right that's what needs to be addressed and that's probably a public private partnership or you want to build something big you got to build this for everybody yeah or or if you did if you if the town did front that cost they could at least get a big chunk back by conding off the retail on the ground floor selling that part of it then they're not landlords they at least get a chunk back I don't know I there's a lot of hybrids where parking doesn't have to mean a zero on underlying value I've got a lot of IDE are we already kind of landlords because a lot of the leased land down town we do own and then just companies leases so the same model could apply we're not no we're not we're selling selling flat okay except for the S6 the University Building okay okay that's definitely least for us I got a question for you the rer spots that are around the district so I remember when they first started building those things we lost a few spaces at each location does the town know of those right share locations are have been beneficial and helped with traffic around the Heritage district and how exactly do they work so this like Friday night I'm leaving Champions and I get on to lift or Uber for my ride did the town contact those certain places and say anything that comes within the heritage District the pickup drop you know the pickup location will be at one of those spots compared to like out front of Champions or wherever else you're coming out of yes commissioner Anderson we worked with um the rer companies Uber and LIF to designate those spots uh largely because we had uh individuals stopping on Gilbert Road and just letting people out on Main Street essentially and so what happens is if I take a ride um to downtown I can choose which of these five locations I want to be dropped off picked up at and so um we do have you know our our um at the end of the evening um we do certainly have you know our police our police B Team helping people get to those particular locations um but Sydney I can't so I will share we were at one point able to get data from both Uber and lft on um the ride share and the amount of ride share and then they stopped sharing some of that data but at the time when it first Ked up so you do remember how many ride shares we were having per month approximately per month for drop off and pickup between the five we were getting approximately 5,000 drop offs and Pickups per month so we got that data through 2022 and then there was a privacy item with the r share companies and we can no longer get it but also we've tracked it with our PD and the numbers of tickets they've issued for people stopping on Gilbert Road has dropped to almost zero so that was a way that even though we can't track how many cars we're getting there now um we can see we our PD team is no longer issuing those tickets in the extreme amount they were before so it's successful from at least a safety perspective um even though we may not be able to measure as much the circulation so is that ascentive enough for the town to create more stops around the district we have a phase two that's in our Capital Improvement plan so at that time I I don't know what year it is it's within like the next five years we'll reassess those sites and then provide upgrades to them and then look at other opportunities to add more um but it has been incredibly helpful and successful and it's very easy working with the right share companies and the fact that I'm leaving Champions and it tells you go to the columber one and it gives you instructions to walk down there and the writers go and pick up and it's just a much more efficient process thank you Mr Anderson in the development agreements that we're um creating we have also included you know stimulations that they should have R share locations and then subsequently we can work with those R share companies to be able to again um do in them to a particular area I just want to point out how cool it is that you were at Champions I just want to say place you need a ride share that place she leave you leave with she couldn't drive herself home give me a pickle Pig's foot in one of those bags no problem well if there are no other parking related questions certainly you can contact me or Dan or Sydney at any moment we're happy to walk you through any comments questions certainly want to share your feedback with Council but ultimately I just want to say thank you um to all of you tonight for spending this time with us for really helping us think about how we build the future of Gilbert um your commitment and the the thoughts and ideas and Leadership that you share is just really Paramount so we're very grateful to you certainly grateful to vice mayor and council member tgus and certainly thankful to all of our staff who help put today together and for hanging out and listening to these presentations so thank you thank you heather for joining us here in Arizona order