good evening ladies and gentlemen it is now six o'clock and I will call this regular meeting of the Burnsville city council to order it is our tradition to stand for a moment of silence followed by the Pledge of Allegiance and we invite you to join us I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all foreign is both in person and online and members of the public are welcome to join us online uh they can view us on burnsvillemn.gov meetings or Channel 16 or 8 59. the public can also participate in the meeting through Zoom by joining us at zoom.us slash join more information about the availability of the meeting background is on our webpage and in a council packet foreign the first item on the agenda is announcements and then we also have one presentation to do announcements have to do with all of our upcoming meetings Council meetings are scheduled for Tuesday December 20th at 5 30 pm and Tuesday January 3rd at 5 30 PM work sessions are scheduled for Tuesday December 13th at 5 30 PM all meetings of the city council are held here in this council chambers unless we tell you that a meeting is going to take place somewhere else and tonight we have one recognition and I'm going to do it from that side city council and members of the community of Burnsville we have one recognition of appreciation and this is for Mike O'Brien Mike if you come up please he has served our community uh in the cold review task force and we're very very appreciative of the work that he's done now Mike is a very special person Mike was born with half a heart and he also has had many medical challenges but he gave to Burnsville and no matter what he was always there and we're always appreciative of your service Mike and so we're going to miss you Mike is leaving us because he is going to Nashville to get a heart transplant and a liver transplant and so our prayers go with Mike as he undergoes this journey and we pray for the success and you are going to have to let your mother keep us informed and updated Mike so with that thank you for your service to our to the community of Burnsville thank you you have been wonderful so thank you thank you I think she's [Applause] thank you save this so much we appreciate you very much miss everyone yeah and we pray for a successful surgery and transplant okay thank you okay mayor I'd like to say something yes please is liaison to the uh citizens code review it's been just a pleasure working with you and we've done more than that we've talked about Mobility for people with challenges and how do you get around and we've had lots of different discussions and you have stood up for people all the time as our mayor has said and the one thing that always impressed me is no matter how you were feeling you made it to the meetings you always showed up to meetings and most of you probably don't know this but he ubered to the meetings to get here that's how he got here for these things and so uh you're and I've watched you over the years fight hard for your health fight hard to get this transplant and I I'm just so impressed with what you've done Burnsville is going to we're going to lose a a citizen that I'd like to keep but more importantly I think we're going to lose a voice that a lot of people respect so thank you for what you did and the other thing is that Mike you have a Facebook page where you need donations to help cover your medical expenses so and they can go to Facebook and it's Mike O'Brien yeah I also have a is it okay if I sure I also have a website transplant the number for mike.com and it's through the national foundation for transplants and that's how I'm raising money to be able to pay for this because it's going to cost about like two million dollars hopefully everything goes well so but thank you so much Mike we're going to miss you because the other thing is that during the pandemic when we had meetings and Mike was not feeling good he would zoom in and we could see that he had to be laying in bed but attended the meetings because his mind continued to function but his body was weak so thank you Mike thank you thank you I appreciate this yeah you all means so much to me [Applause] the next item on the agenda is Citizens comments this is the opportunity for anyone in the audience or on Zoom to address the Council on an item that is not on a printed agenda and not an application form that will be coming before us at a future date is there anyone in the audience who wishes to address the Council on an item that is not on the agenda and not in application form Miss Collins is there anyone on Zoom thank you we will move on the next item on the agenda is for emergency item zoning and this is additions to the final agenda city manager Lindbergh are there any emergency items to come before the body loving you from staff mayor members of the council okay thank you we then will move on the next item on the agenda is the consent agenda this is a group of items that's considered to be routine and will be enacted by one motion however an item in a consent agenda can be removed for a separate discussion and vote is there anyone in the audience who wishes an item on the consent agenda to be removed for a separate discussion and vote Miss Collins anyone on Zoom that wants an item removed members of the council city manager Lindbergh no matter okay we now move on to the regular uh I will now ask for a motion on the consent agenda so moved second there's a motion and a second all in favor please say aye aye aye opposite and a motion carries thank you we now move on to the regular agenda and the first item on the regular agenda is establishing the 2023 property tax levy adopting the 2023 budget and adopting the 2023 2027 Capital Improvement program presenting this evening is our Chief Financial Officer Jenny Brody Mrs Brody Madam mayor Instagram it's great to be here tonight um so tonight we'll be we'll be doing our final final presentation of the 2023 proposed budget briefly we'll start out with the budget calendar I'll just briefly touch on the budget calendar and we will look at the 2023 proposed budget in summary as well as the 2023 proposed tax levy and finally we'll wrap up with staff recommendations and formal actions to be taken before the property tax levy and budget is certified oh I'm sorry here I'll try to get closer for you [Music] um can somebody check with control room please um can you hear me now no no okay okay we can hear you but uh we'll make sure that uh everybody gets to hear everything and then we'll also make sure that it's also being heard with those folks who are listening to us um on television or online pardon me it sounds like the sound the sound okay there they're working on it right now no no okay can you hear her just naturally okay okay try again uh Mrs Roadie okay I'll try again oh how's that there we go there again okay here is not can you hear her yeah that's important yeah okay and then um can you hear me can you hear me now okay so they'll continue to work on the sound system most importantly is that you need to hear Mrs Roadie she's our Chief Financial Officer okay very good thank you for letting us know okay all right thanks um so tonight is our actually our eighth meeting that we've had to discuss the budget with Council we started almost a year ago back in January at the all-day work session where Council offered some thoughts um and feedback for the proposed or the the 2023 budget to come as we move into the budget information just a reminder there's a few pending pending items and studies that are outstanding that are not included in the 2023 budget one of those as are the municipal facilities projects the pre-designed work for those are ongoing and those will come back to council at a later date additionally Compensation Plan Market Assessments in the 2023 budget we do have a Compensation Plan update scheduled and the outcome of that the outcome of that pending study those any additional Market assessments as a result of that will need to be worked into or integrated into future years budgets additionally we do have five labor agreements that are expiring at the end of 20 or 22 as well total expenditures and uses for 2023 are proposed at a little over 121 million six hundred thousand dollars that is across all funds including Capital funds uh 20 39 of expenditures are accounted for uh through Employee Services followed by 24 are budgeted for current expenditures in 2020 or 22 percent for Capital Improvements overall that's about a 8.2 million dollar increase over a 2022 or about a 7.2 percent increase the use of fund balance across all funds is planned for about four hundred and eight thousand uh for 2023 with the biggest single use being American Rescue plan act funds out of the grant fund of three million dollars and those are going to fund Public Safety expenditures and reduce the impact on the property tax levy for 2023. foreign item another we completed an organizational analysis in 2023 that resulted in 19 ftes being proposed across multiple departments and you can see those listed here in the proposed column the res um the total cost in the 2023 budget is approximately 2.6 million dollars which is largely largely included in the general fund budget many of the ftes though are also supported by Enterprise funds either through Direct ftes in the public works department or allocations from the general fund to those utility funds total revenues and funding sources budgeted for 2023 are just a little a little under 120 1 million dollars to or 121 million two hundred thousand dollars 39 of the revenues are derived from property taxes with 29 being charges for services a majority of those charges for services are are in the utility funds through utility charges the detail of the property tax levy proposed for 2023 is shown on this slide it is a 14.5 percent increase with a majority assigned to the general fund um and and a majority of that cost and there are a lot of that costs going to organizational analysis implementation notable as well the Eda fund the proposed Levy for the Eda fund is a million dollars that is an increase of 702 thousand over last years over the 2022 Levy this slide shows the impact of the current Year's levy on a median value home one thing to note the market value of a median value home did change by 48 000 in 2023 it increased about 16.6 percent that's a and that change along with the property tax levy change resulted for a median median value property owner about a 229 dollar annual increase or a monthly increase of about 19 just over 19 dollars um and finally this is there's a few formal steps that the council needs to take this evening in order to certify the property tax levy and budget for 2023 first the council will be presented with two resolutions um for the 2023 property tax levy certification and budget after that action the council meeting will be briefly recessed and the Eda meeting an Eda meeting will be convened there they will be asked to act on a resolution for the proposed 2023 property tax certification for the Eda um once that action is taken the Eda meeting will be recessed and the city council meeting will be reconvened and they will they will be presented with a motion to consent to the property tax levy for the Eda um at this time staff recommends the city council and Eda board adopt the resolutions as presented and I am available available for any questions thank you Mrs Roadie as you have outlined any um schedule of events we've started we started this back in January and have been working on the budget diligently throughout all of those months and uh and this is where we find ourselves at and so has anyone have any questions for Mrs roadie at this time none we do have some folks who would like to speak on the budget so I'm going to call them up and you can come and up to this Podium right here and speak the first one who signed up is Mr Ward um Mr Ward is at 27 just give us your name and address for the record yeah my name is Bob Ward address 2702 Woods Trail North in Burnsville we've been a residence here in Burnsville for 30 something about 30 years we moved into the city because the city was a top-notch city and the school is a top-notch school district that the city has stayed there I'm very I'm very pleased with a lot of the things the city has done there's a few things that I question why they did them but the school district is really failing and that's not a reflection on you guys but it's a reflection on the school district and it's it's unfortunate but also uh you know it's it's it's a bad time to be raised in taxes everybody is just recovering from this pandemic a lot of our people a lot of our investments have gone 20 to 40 percent down some of us are on a fixed income and it's a very poor time to be raising taxes along with the rest of the things that are going on in the economy you know I read the articles and tried to follow everything as the console went through this whole reassessment of of uh the next five years and the company you hired recommended 50 percent increase in property taxes over the next five years I believe that's what they they recommend it and I think that's a little high maybe they we should get a company in here to Anna analyze how we can be more efficient in the city there's a lot of a lot of things that you know being a businessman in the city uh there's a lot of things that we had to do to adjust to to the economy to everything else and it'd be nice to see the city do that instead of bringing a company in to say let's spend more money and do different things like that so I think this is a very important time to be adding to the taxes putting a bigger burden on the people of Burnsville all right thank you Mr Ward the next person is Mrs Judy Leonard hello my husband and I live at 15287 Stonewood Court in Burnsville we've been residents of Burnsville well for 46 years we love it here and we just moved a year ago though and it's a townhouse so that we do most of our living on one floor anyway this says our property taxes are going up and we would say we would never get any money the way we paid for money to get into this house we will not get that because we will tell people that the Buck Hill snow machines run Day and Night 10 days at a time I've called code enforcement now three times I did get one return voicemail that said they've had approval for this for years back in the 80s and I'm thinking well they have a lot of new houses and a lot of new kids living around here you can't sleep you have a headache all the time anyway that's one thing I wanted to bring up Lake I don't know why we're going to be paying more and we're getting less and the other thing is my husband would like to know if there's a senior freeze for seniors and also um why are we paying double taxes for Less space that those are questions we have I don't know if you get them answered here or Mrs Roadie I think you're talking about the value of your home correct and the taxes that were increased for yeah so that we have these complaints that aren't being felt even answered I don't yeah three phone calls and I only got two one answer and that was it yeah we need to do a better job of that what I can say is that you can talk with Mrs Roadie afterwards and she can answer some of those questions some of the things that you can also do with regard to senior deferment I think the county can do some of that but again there are some things that need to be looked at and she will be happy to work with you on that all right thank you thank you the next is uh Mr Chris John Madam mayor City Council Members Chris John 12915 18th Avenue South in Burnsville and I just came uh probably the opposite of everybody else here I am um advocating for the increase in taxes only because I know where our city is as far as Staffing is concerned I've spoke with many people and the staff and they tell me how stressed out they are because they don't have enough people available to help them out I it would be great if we could be more efficient but there comes a point where you can't go any lower you can't get any less without losing services or losing pieces of the puzzle um there there's things to be said about not only paying taxes but what's the benefit that you're getting from those taxes and what what services can be provided by the city of Burnsville because you're paying these taxes you know if you look at the areas around us whether that be Lakeville Apple Valley they're all going double digit on increasing taxes this year it's just it's a thing it has a lot to do with inflation but for Burnsville it it's it's mainly Staffing it's it's a lot of people they show the the slide earlier of all the people that we need needed to be included into the Staffing not only for our police and fire which is a huge portion of this um they're half of the staff that we need and we have an increased Staffing in those in those departments in the last 20 years yet our population grew 4 000 people and so if people are wondering why crime is going up or why you know the the fire department may not be able to put out a big fire without help from other services this is why it's because we don't have enough funding there to take care of those things so I really believe that um this is about to go I think that we need to do 14 first otherwise we're going to be paying double ditches down the road for the next two years let's get it over with one time get it over with and move forward and be able to fund the city the way we should be thank you thank you Mr John the next person is Mr Roman Kobes Roman caves okay for Glenview Drive hi Elizabeth a bit of law since I seen you uh yeah um I'm again here for 14 seems awfully high for one thing um my mother's 96 years old and if she's getting gonna be hit with a tax increase of a 14 added on to her or the income that she has Social Security is not coming up then the numbers aren't going to be there for her and I think you're going to put a lot of people in the city of Burnsville with with that kind of decision the second thing is I wanted to bring out the attention is the the the homes we have split entry homes all around in Burnsville and to to better make the home more value and more appealing to to the younger people split entries are not they're not no they're not favorable uh Rambler is two story is but we have all these split entries there and uh to uh to to upgrade uh split entry you're gonna it's gonna be around two a hundred thousand dollars to change it over so I I think that the city council should take another look at their increases and try to come with the resolution that would be more appealing to people that are in the early Market thank you thank you uh Mr Chris Meeks Madam mayor council members I'm actually a resident uh four years in Burnsville here at 3104 Glenview Drive I would simply say uh and and unlike others that may be uh speaking here I'm a I don't know how you want to put a dual citizen I'm also a homeowner in Indiana so here and there um and actually I lease from Mr capes I would simply say when I look at uh what What's Happening Here I mean increases happen all the time and but I think when we're looking at those increases especially it was made a point made earlier uh coming off of uh pandemic coming off of reduced um you know Investments that are happening to everyone especially or seniors that are in the community and others seems that this might be not necessarily the appropriate time to add additional Personnel to administration of the city uh you know and you know you take a look at some of these homes in the area many of them are there's not new developments going on here these are older homes from the 50s 60s and 70s primarily you know the assessments that are being placed upon them I think is really put into burden or will put a burden uh on your community so basically is all I had to say but other than that I love Burnsville it's a great town thank you thank you thank you um Miss Renee Williams I'm Renee Williams I live at 1525 Rio Loma Lane my family moved to Burnsville in 1968. yes I was just a mere child I'm now retired and have lived in Burnsville all these years and I'm really concerned also about this tax increase I did some research and went to the Dakota County website and also to another website that's called world population review and I would like to point out that these websites said the growth of Burnsville has been .6 less than one percent growth from year to year and yet you're asking for a 14 increase in taxes with such small growth you're asking for eight more police officers according to the statistics you gave three more firemen two more City staff people I don't think our population has supported that kind of growth in what you're asking for in the staff um other people have pointed out the home values have gone up which is not your responsibility the county is responsible for that mine I'm in a very modest home here at Burnsville increased over fifty thousand dollars not only did that happen but they lowered the homestead tax credit so on the bottom of my tax statement I have a 21 increase in my taxes for this next year it's close to 600 dollars more and you are the heaviest part of that with your 14 increase coming in on that I can't go to my retirement fund as a retired teacher and ask for more income I'm sliding backwards as many people are in this economy the Dakota County website said in Burnsville there's 47 212 adults out of that 10 026 of them are seniors so almost 25 percent of the population have entered senior citizenship those are fixed income people and again people have said they're they're Investments have shrunk with the poor economy I think all of you are very aware of what's happened at the grocery store when last year we could get eggs for 99 cents a dozen and last week they were at Cub for four dollars and 49 cents a dozen butter we could get last year for holiday baking at a dollar 39 a pound it's three dollars or more a pound and that's when it's on sale prices are up everywhere I just don't understand how you can in good conscience squeeze more out of your residents your citizens here that look to you to help guide us yes we have a beautiful Community yes it needs to be maintained but now I don't think it's the right time for such a steep increase because you can only squeeze your people so far before they break there is nowhere we're sliding backwards instead of going forward so I ask you as council members there was another proposal at eight percent rather than the 14 I'm just using the round numbers right now that you would have compassion in your hearts and move back to that percentage and offer a little relief to your people that support you here in the city thank you thank you thank you the next is Bruce Haverly thank you madamir uh Bruce Haverly 331 Maple Island Road and um looking at the Dakota County or the levy is at 12.9 percent and uh according to Dakota County that is the highest of the of Dakota County for municipalities so I'm not sure why what's driving all those I haven't seen some of the budget information beforehand but um in addition to that if the increase is 12.9 percent a lot of us all of our neighbors are in excess of uh 25 to 30 percent increase in our taxes for the Burnsville component so I'm not understanding why why we're not seeing the 14.9 percent versus 25 to 30 percent which you know we're not talking hundreds of thousands hundreds of dollars we're talking thousands of dollars now at this point um and uh it seems like it's a windfall to the city so there are some solutions possibly to uh reduce the levy reduce the mill rate put a cap uh cap on the increase and for seniors like myself that are retired um if there's a a cap or a credit for uh for tax increases so that's that's my thought again as Renee said I would I would ask the uh the council to consider a lower Levy increase it's just it's it's punishing the long-term residents for values that have gone up uh nothing that we can control so thank you very much thank you uh let's see that's all I have who of people who want to yes please come forward name and address for the record you look like a stranger though I don't know if we should let you in here I said you looks like a stranger approaching I don't know that we should let you in oh well the reason they're teasing me for those who don't know me my name is Dan McElroy my wife and I live at 12805 welcome land and have for 45 years as of last week and I served on this body a very very long time ago in the last last century um I have kept track of our property taxes for the last 45 years my nickname when I served in government was numbers and so of course I have an Excel spreadsheet about yay long and I track I use the Citizens League approach the Citizens League of the Twin Cities has a website you may find interesting the tracks net taxes after all credits as a percentage of market value and over those 45 years our net taxes the percentage market value have actually gone down now you can't write a check for a percentage of market value you write a check for dollars and the dollars have gone up but this year for our home our tax about 1.05 percent of market value it peaked at about 2.4 percent of market value in the 80s it has been coming down since then the interesting thing is to look at how it compares to surrounding communities not so much in Dakota County Dakota County communities in general are Frugal but take a look at a home of comparable value in Prior Lake Court Bloomington or Eden Prairie or if you really want to scare yourself places like Sunfish lake or North Oaks where the taxes on a comparable home are two or three times as much it doesn't pay the taxes and I I assumed to some extent blame the effort to get back to AAA Bond rating and frugality with not having increased spending more slowly over time or when I was involved and I know our population hasn't increased but the population the service calls for service have increased buildings are older and if they do Catch Fire they're more complicated to put out older Citizens need to have more calls for emergency services particularly the ambulance but also rescue and extraction businesses that have grown in the community demand and demand's not the right word call from our services so I'm concerned about the increase I hope I know from experience that what we received in the notice was the maximum allowable increase so the so-called Max tax and that you have we'll have further discussions about that but I asked my neighbors and they're concerned um we're not getting any younger and it is more likely that my people my age and older will call 9-1-1 and want an ambulance it takes more people to do that than it did when we were younger our streets are like our bodies are getting older variety of things constitute a need for spending so spend as little as is smart and if you spend too little it's not smart thank you very much thank you Mr McElroy is there anyone else yes please come forward give us your name and address for the record because uh I have a list of people who signed in and thank you madam mayor my name is Doug Munson I live at 13012 High Point curve in Burnsville um yeah I've been listening to everybody here and pretty much an agreement I'm looking at my share of the Burnsville increase and it's 20.7 percent and on my bottom line My overall taxes are going up 21.5 percent I get that prices go up I get that you know there's needs I expect an increase but 21.5 or 20.7 percent city-wide I mean I just can't get behind that um you know I got to give y'all credit I looked I have my last three years tax statements here and the the increases were marginal and of course I appreciate that um and like I said I I understand the need to raise taxes I mean things cost more but I would just ask that you reconsider a little bit because 20.7 percent is just a huge hit and as a lot of folks have indicated I'm not fixed income if you will I'm still working but I mean I can feel the pain of those folks as well so would appreciate any consideration we can get to get some of these numbers down a little bit thank you thank you okay yes please name and address for the record oh um Karen Mack 14126 Park Avenue and uh I spoke with the county today about the taxes and my portion of the taxes from Burnsville is going up 25 percent and my husband is on Social Security Disability he's in resides in the veterans home so I am trying to make do with just my income on this home My overall taxes are going up 18 and a half percent according to the county the because of the increase in Burnsville is from the loss of revenue from the Burnsville Center and you're passing it on to the homeowners and as other people have said here you know we're just coming out of the pandemic our you know my retirement funds have gone down at least 25 some 30 percent and you know I'm only a few years away from retiring myself oh I don't know where this money is going to come from and really can't afford this kind of an increase at this time not when you know uh inflation is already eight percent and you're asking for three times that from my property taxes here in Burnsville thank you thank you anyone else thank you for coming and for sharing your thoughts with us uh this will be the time that members of the council will deliberate um council member Keeley thank you madam mayor mayor well it's been a long budget process the longest we've had since I've been on this Council I think we started in the end of first quarter possibly instead of to sometime in June I think we started about 60 or so days before that and we've had a lot of public meetings and a lot of discussion about this so there's not going to be too many surprises coming out of I think our council's comments my perspective is um I'm affected like everyone else I think my tax bill went up 21 percent Dakota County excuse me Dakota County Assessor's Office noted that the average home value across the Spectrum was 16 and a half percent we've I don't know that the city has ever seen assessed values jump 16 and a half percent in one year on average there's some that are higher than that of course um just for a point of clarification we don't have a set mill rate that just essentially is effectively applied towards your home value we have traditionally since I've been on this Council and I think Matt America goes back longer than that have always looked at our actual hard costs in dollars and we take the dollar increase that we have voted on and divided into the pie and that determines the percentage most of the time that number is under five percent as it should be um and sometimes it's in a three range my values and opinions that I've shared over the last 16 budget section sessions has been rooted in the responsibility that we are spending your tax money and it's a privilege to sit here in this position at this Dice and do so holding government accountable demanding and asking and finding innovative ways to do deliver services finding the most cost efficient options and sometimes just doing with what we have I'll remind everyone in 2020 sorry 2010 I sat at this council with a few of my fellow council members at the time and we passed a zero Levy during the um the most difficult period of time with a Great Recession which resulted in 20 full-time equivalent employees of the city being let go in fact most of it just absorbed in attrition so I think there was only one pink slip pad to be given um and from that point on up until recently we haven't really grown we've actually maintained one of the lowest cost cities in Dakota County um I that's been My overriding Philosophy I think as a fiscal conservative it's the right one to have when you're sitting in this position because as we've heard our decisions can harm a family budget to a great degree especially those that live on a fixed income like our senior citizens some of who spoke tonight but also those lower income families who struggle week to week paycheck to paycheck and sometimes don't make it they really are disproportionately harmed when a large Spike unpredictable or inconsistent with historical trends uh tax increase is uh put upon them so in 2022 we were provided with a full Staffing study for the first time in almost eight years we got an honest and transparent information about the needs of our entire city Department we would hear a few things here and there but there's a few departments a couple in particular that had great need and they were being locked out of the discussion and this Council wasn't really truly abreast of what the need was uh until this new uh study came about and we found out um under a leadership of our new city manager what the real need was and I take uh the the consultant study um for its face value but also with a grain of salt I realize that Consultants are hired not to give you a conservative perspective or a liberal perspective they're basically hired to tell you to the nth degree what is the optimum situation in other words in a perfect world how many people do you need and that's why I think that number is so high I don't believe that number can be justified in real life in the work that we do but probably most of it could over that period of time we found out that Public Safety and fire paramedics was a heavy need we learned that our Police Department was 13 members short and that our Law Enforcement Officers before the pandemic had a rough go there was tons of overtime they were stretched and stressed and we didn't really know about it then the pandemic came and all that did was pile on an exasperate exacerbate the situation for them and now we're dealing with an ex an excessively stretched and stressed uh Department that is um not in the best position to support our City Public Safety going forward mental health calls Behavioral Health calls different types of calls today is a different world than when our good friend Dan McElroy sat at this Dice and did a fantastic job governing in the city and as mayor after that after City Council um and so the Dynamics have changed and the need for police enforcement law enforcement the numbers May to your point uh ma'am that you pointed out about our population growth versus why would we need eight more officers um it's an interesting study in what's going on today in today's world and when the closer and the more information you get the more you realize we do need those officers and in next year's budget I believe there's eight officers to be hired that could be a challenge to hire eight in one year um in one particular 12 month cycle because it's also difficult police officers today if I know that's hard to imagine but I know you've all seen the news and read the news it is a challenge so we are choosing to fund more police and we're also choosing to fund more fire department because Chief jungman has presented in front of us we know exactly what the need is it's all call based it's very black and white even though the red is their color it's red and white it's this number of calls they have to have this number of people because they're on 24 7. seven days a week 365 days of the year that fire department and our Police Department has staff ready to be there when that 9-1-1 calls comes in in addition we do have some other departments like Public Works Finance Community Development others that need some staff because the Staffing report showed we were low so there's a few of those in this number that I'm going to talk about but the majority of why um I support hiring the police and fire is is pretty well laid out in detail we also believe strongly that there's a need to begin investing in our Ada at a little higher level to address things like our regional Mall your point was very valid one of the speakers saying I don't know if the county told you that because your taxes are going up because the mall is uh reduced in value and paying far less in taxes there is some truth to that but that is by far not the the whole truth our regional Mall property tax value has dropped quite dramatically as you can imagine and of course when um a piece of the Pie falls at a faster rate than everything else or really fast the rest of the pie has to make it up so there's there is some truth to that um it's just a small piece I believe I don't want our regional mall to become a Brookdale I don't want it to become a Maplewood Mall which is going on The Auction Block I believe next week or next month um we have a very significant historical um performance out of that mall and it wasn't until the the prior owner Let It Go and lied to our face for five straight years uh and then filed bankruptcy and now and then we found out why they were lying to her face um and and they let it go to the point where it's it was going to be very challenging to turn around we don't own the ball it's privately owned we just try and set the table and facilitate and give them tools to help them uh and and spur investment but that's really our role we can take a little bit more role if we had some Eda funds we could actually set the table a little more aggressively and help it recover and that's what an investment in our Eda is um so the cost of doing all of that I just explained is 8.9 percent Levy increase so why are we talking about 14.5 it's because an idea was floated to grab and I'm going to stress that I'm going to use this again money grab in addition to the to for an additional two and a half million dollars from you the taxpayers without any fully vetted fully discussed or fully voted on cost justification that's really what it comes down to fear of the future well let's just take it now I can't go along with that because number one we've never done it that way we've never since I've been on here and I don't mad Americans speak to the history we've never just said let's just grab an extra two and a half million because I think we're going to need it down the road we don't know exactly when where and how much those things down the road are we have a general idea but that's it and I I am not somebody who's ever going to sit here and say let's just tax out of what we think we might need over the next few years if we haven't as an elected body fully vetted fully debated and fully voted on hard costs we shouldn't be taxing for it that's really what it comes down to for me and all of this talk of 14 and a half at a time and this I don't want to repeat what was already said there was great points inflation is killing us Gas and Grocery prices are crushing cost of borrowing is essentially crushed the home sales Market as well as business investment businesses have pretty much dried up their investment because it's twice as expensive to borrow money to invest in the business so they're all pulling in the reins and as I noted earlier this really dramatically affects the people who struggle to make ends meet year over year a week over week and our senior citizens but by the way I turned 65 this year so I'm part of the senior citizen group and at some point in my future when I stopped working I'm going to be on a fixed income and I sure as heck would stand up here and and make a case that 14 and a half in one year is flat out too much so what I think what is 14 and a half percent say to our taxpayers about our leadership and the family budgets that it's been that it's going to crush that they were crushed before the pandemic started but the pandemic made it very difficult then we our federal government's actions added inflation that went through the roof so you know gas prices through the roof that didn't have to be but they are they are what they are so I'm urging my fellow council members to vote on an 8.9 Levy that's the one that we have fully vetted fully debated and we're ready to vote on and not be afraid of what has been told might be coming in the future years let's deal with each year when we have the facts specific dollar amounts year by year 16 years of budget discussions have taught me the forecast for the lebby in future years is never as high as we forecast because there's one thing about forecasting in government that I learned coming out of the private sector we can account for all the anticipated cost increase we cannot guess at what the growth the revenue sources are going to be we can't say Well since we've had all these apartments being built over the last five years let's build that that into our our future forecast let's build in some some one-time money that we've gotten from these other places none of that can be a part of the revenue side the government has to only report what it knows today when it comes to revenue and it can report cost increases that it knows today because we know those are going to happen we may not know all the revenue might come so there's credibility to that statement but the reality is that five-year forecast is never going to be exactly what the five-year forecast is because it's only based on what we know today and that's it thank you for indulging me council member Schultz I'm never happy about a tax levy increase uh 14 percent makes me nauseated to even think about uh I I'm not gonna belabor it I'm not gonna you all have major points and they are they are absolutely valid um fellow city council member has also done his his concise points but they're valid um the idea is that if we do 14 and a half percent now our Levy increases will be less in future years and by less I don't mean five percent or six percent or a percentage that you're used to it will still be a high percent however I will throw this out so that our audience both here and at home understands when they are calculating what a future Levy increase may be they are not including in their all of the facilities that we are going to be funding and building to a tune of around 70 to 80 million dollars I absolutely do not see a way that our future Levy increases will not be double digits again so that's my bad news to you my second bad news to you is by the time we get to a meeting like this the ship has sailed if you want to affect these types of discussions and believe me I appreciate that you're here because usually when we have this discussion there is no one in the audience every year so thank you for coming thank you for having your voice heard but so you know our discussions when this is really getting decided is much early in the year when we set the max tax that's really when it's over this is just pro forma I don't know what to tell you I I feel bad saying that and I didn't know that my first year on city council either it was it was a uh it was an unwelcome shock that year so I will absolutely not be voting for a 14.5 increase it's ridiculous councilmember Workman thank you um as councilmember Schultz said this isn't something that happens quickly we spent many months half of a year working on this um several weeks listening to department heads our Chiefs profiled their departments and explained their needs in very intricate detail um and what those needs are so yes we we did hire a consultant to analyze the the Mile High um but the hard numbers that we're talking about tonight are coming directly from our staff and our department heads um and I I give those people a lot of credit those are the people that I trust um and and those numbers aren't arbitrary they're they're rooted in more information that I've seen in the four years I've been here just absolutely Blown Away by the amount of information we got in our budget this year more than I think any other community usually spends on that type of a thing so I was very proud of the the work that we did this year to get to this point um and as councilmember Keely alluded to we've we've been very conservative in our spending over the last several years um but that has caught up to us to a certain degree and we've neglected to fund things that have been needed not just this year but for the last many years um fire PD I.T so on so a good chunk of this is rooted in catching up in areas that we've neglected over the last few years and we can say why we didn't know these things were happening but at the end of the day it stops with us and so here we are we're we're ripping off a Band-Aid of sorts um to get this organization where it needs to be um as far as the Eda spending I get more calls emails social media postings complaining about why is Burnsville sitting still while communities around us are doing all these neat things eagan's getting this prior Lakes getting that Lakeville is getting that why isn't Burnsville getting anything well those communities that are thriving and I'm not saying that Burnsville is not thriving but those communities that are getting new and shiny things are participating in Economic Development and they're not doing that sitting on their hands the community is just as much involved in the economic development process we are very good at stepping out of the way and letting the private sector do their thing and I'm very proud of that and that's one that is something that I support um but if we want to see an aging community redevelop we have to be a part of that process so these aren't arbitrary cash grabs this is us preparing for the future and when there is an opportunity for redevelopment or Economic Development they're not picking up the phone and calling us saying hey you know we got a project coming could you spend six to nine months discussing this on your Levy and we'll wait for you um no they're not doing that so what we're doing is preparing we're trying to get aggressive and I will say one area where tax investment has a substantial return is an economic development there aren't many departments or areas where you can invest money and then actually realize a return on that investment than an economic development because you're going to see a return through tax dollars I will wrap up my rambling um there but I do have one question from Miss Roadie in that if you could just quickly highlight what the dollar difference is annually between the 8.9 and the 14.1 yes I can do that I believe the annual difference for the calculation we made on the median value home is about 81 annually or about 6.75 per month okay I saw my tax statement and I know that burnsville's is higher than we've usually seen But at least on mine the school district was significantly higher and I hope all of you will participate in their public hearing as well because they Max theirs out as high as they could and I don't think anybody has attended one of their public hearings either so thank you okay councilmember Gustafson thank you madam mayor thank you councilmember Workman um I don't know that I can expand on what council member Workman had to say except I'd like to talk a little bit how we got here and for the last 15 years or so we have pushed back on our staff our subject matter experts the people that actually do the work in the city each and every year when they come with recommendations and it's to hold government accountable is Mr Kitty here council member Keith likes to say but every time you push back on those recommendations they have to cut something and we and we do and we have been cutting back for many many years and a couple of years ago we made a decision to use the federal funds that we got through arpa to artificially reduce your taxes for ongoing operations which means we used one-time money to support ongoing operations well that money is going to run out and when it runs out we've got a several million dollars that we have to make up for and that's what this is all about is preparing ourselves for next year or the year after when that money does run out so this was kind of a self-inflicted wound I do take exception I know I've heard from many of our staff members that they were short people for a long time they didn't make a real big deal of it and I agree some of our previous management didn't pound it like they should have I am very grateful that this year with our new city manager and our finance people you guys told us the truth he told us straight what it was it told us where we're at and where we're going to be also we do have a plan we have a five-year plan this isn't that we're grabbing money and let's see what happens this is all planned out is very well planned out and I thought I thought it was presented very well and that's available for anyone in this room that wants it what that Five-Year Plan is if you'd like it so I I will be supporting the 14.53 so I've been here the longest and we have been a very conservative City and we have done a good job of keeping the city safe keeping operations going but like everything else there are ups and downs and we experience all of that as well each one of our council members have given you their views of what they have experienced which is true but there is also the reality that Burnsville when I came into office was 55 000 people we are now 65 000 people uh we were I believe uh 95 built out we're at a hundred percent built out Burnsville is not the city when I came in to office it has changed quite a bit and during the recession we did lay off a whole lot of folks and we didn't bring any of those folks back and it caused our um Personnel to be stressed and what we pride ourselves on is to take care of our people so they can take care of all of us right now I want you all to meet the people who give us the information that allows us to look at the organization from a different lens the lens of operation and what they do day in and day out 24 7 365 days a year so that we live in a safe community so we have police officers who make sure that we're safe but there are also people of integrity when during the riots in Minneapolis and when we had someone come into our community and put the lives of our business owners our guests and our residents in jeopardy those officers were out there to make sure that we were protected now someone was killed but let me tell you I stand behind our officers I stand behind our firefighters and our paramedics because they're there to take care of us and when it snows you want to make sure that our Public Works people are there to clear the streets so that you have a safe drive to and from where you're going that we take care of our parks and we take care these are all assets that belong to you we take care of the environment all of that takes money we take care of our water source we should never take for granted our water states in the West and South need water but we take ours for granted now in Burnsville we take care of our water source and we make sure that we do it in a very responsible way by having both surface and groundwater so we don't drill anymore and draw from the Hinckley Jordan aquifer and we make sure that there's enough water that we take care of us but also we take care of savage Savage purchases their water from us because they are they sit on a fence this is the Burnsville way and we sell water to them I would like members of our staff to please stand up you need to see that these are human beings please stand these are the people that lead the teams that lead the teams that take care of us and these are the people who bring us the information that allows us to make the decisions that we make each and every day to ensure that you are safe to ensure that you have I'm 75. so I know what you're talking about and I want to make sure that if something happens my police my fire chief and the firefighters and paramedics can be there to take care of not just me but for all of us and let me tell you when I look at his reports on a monthly basis calls to help seniors are vertical call calls on fire are flat we do have fire in our city so I want you to see that these are human beings and they work hard the police chief the fire chief the city manager and also I believe our Public Works are they sleep with their phones 24 7. 365. to ensure that when things happen they're there to take care of things give you stories of what goes on here in Burnsville we're an aging community not just in how long Burnsville has established but also in our age as Citizens so when I look at what we did the 14 is a big bite this year but in the next three years we will be at single digits if we went to the eight percent in the next three years it will be double digits and we will be here next year talking about the double digits increase and at that time I don't know whether we can have the police force and the fire department that we need to take care of Burnsville why because we need to ensure that we can retain the people that we have now and hire new people to take care of a community that has grown so thank you members of our staff these are people that I trust people who give us the information they care they're a great public servants and I know each and every one of us know the kind of work that they get into so I know that if we you don't like the 14 I was glad to see that my my property value was increased it's an asset on my portfolio because during the recession I was underwater and I'm a widow so now it might have increased in its appraised value and therefore its assessed value but for me at least at my age that that asset has increased in value and not underwater so here's what it is on a monthly basis so I always look and I always say to staff tell me how much it's going to cost me on a monthly basis so it's 19 a month for the 14 percent my cable and internet is more than that and it's not going to keep me safe and it's not going to plow the streets and it's not going to respond when I have a heart attack I don't know what your cable bill is and your internet bill and all of the apps that people have like Netflix and all of that but you add all of that up it's a lot more than 19 to make sure you have police for Public Safety to make sure that you have fire paramedics that will respond when you need help to make sure that the streets have the snow removed when he need it to make sure that we have great parks for our children and our families to thrive and for lives to be enriched and to make sure that our natural resources our water and the environment is protected for our children and our grandchildren these are all the things and oh by the way everything that we have there's maintenance just like all of you all of us there's maintenance for all of the appliances and Equipment that's there so a lot of that cost is rolled into all of that that you expect us to take care and to be good stewards of those assets that belong to all of us and so it has been a long and laborious process to go through it and to have each and every one of our department heads come in and talk about their operations and what they're doing because we ask them to deliver if these are the priorities that's going to make Burnsville a vibrant City and that we boldly lead and we're welcoming to all what is it that you need so that we can be that and they were before us telling us how many people they have and what is it that they do on an ongoing basis so ladies and gentlemen I know it's hard it's hard for all of us if uh you know if you're a senior citizen and you live on a fixed income I am just like you and I'm a widow some of saying that the you know they um their spouses are are in nursing homes so I understand that burden but there's a greater benefit is that I want to live in a city where we have people who care to protect us who make sure that when there is an incident that they're that they're there to make sure we're going to be protected whether that's police and fire or our Public Works people or the people in our Community Development Area who make sure that we're working with our our businesses so we help take care of them too so that we have jobs in this community and a lot of the you talk about split um houses in Burnsville a lot of our Apartments were built in the 70s and some of them don't have um they're not in code and they don't sprinklers that's a hazard and that's hard on our fire paramedics so I hope you understand that we don't take this lightly we study what's going on and we make decisions so that we are good stewards for the assets that you expect us to take care of and that you expect us to ensure that we have a safe City for you to live in in a city that you can be proud of and so with that we do the 14 percent this year in the next three years we will be at single digits but are we still challenged of course we will be because we provide a service and that service is provided by people we don't have a product that we make only product we have is water and that's built differently and so I understand and thank you for coming in and talking about um your desire but from where I sit a tough decision this year will allow us to continue to work for the next three years at a single digit increase as we continue to ensure that we have the city that's rice size everybody has talked about how we did how we do things here but if you want to every meeting that we have can be streamed every thing that we do is transparent so we have a YouTube channel and we will make sure city manager Lindbergh that that goes out and people can go to instead of trying to go through all of the different uh channels just go to the the channels that have all of the budget information and you can watch it our work is transparent we work for you I work for the city and the residents and businesses of Burnsville and I do my best to be that Steward that you expect me to be so if everybody has done all of their have given all of their thoughts I think it is appropriate for us to um take the first uh resolution and vote on the tax levy and then uh and also the budget and the capital Improvement plan looking for a motion yes I will make that motion okay I will second there's a motion to adopt the following budget items resolution establishing the 2023 tax levy resolution adopting the 2023 budget and the resolution to adopt the 2023-2027 capital Improvement program um I will have the clerk take a roll call Gustafson aye couch I Keeley no Schultz no way Workman aye and um and and we have the adoption and a budget the next um item right now is that uh I will recess the Burnsville City Council so that the Economic Development Authority meeting can convene president Gustafson thank you madam mayor I call The Economic Development Authority meeting to order item number one are there any additions to the final agenda CNN I'll move on to item number two which is the consent agenda and that's the approval of the minutes is there anyone who wishes an item to be removed from consent agenda for a separate discussion and vote see none may have a motion to adopt the consent agenda moved by commissioner Keeley second second by commissioner Workman all in favor aye opposed and it passes item number three is a resolution adopting the Eda 2023 property tax levy and budget Jenny Rhodey our Chief Financial Officer is presenting original presentation included the Eda information so I don't have anything additional at this time okay are there any questions seeing none may I have a motion to adopt the resolution so moved second motion by commissioner Workman second by commissioner kautz all in favor aye aye all opposed one knows for one okay there's no other business may I have a motion to adjourn moved commissioner first and a second may have a vote all in favor say aye aye aye opposed and we are adjourned back to you madam mayor thank you I will read the Burnsville city council meeting um a resolution to adopt the Burnsville Economic Development uh Authority property tax levy there is nothing new except to ratify the actions of the uh Economic Development Authority may I have a motion to ratify the actions so moved there's a motion and there's a second all in favor please say aye aye aye opposing a nay and the clerk has a division of the house okay uh and uh we now um I have certified the actions of the Burnsville Economic Development Authority and members of the council and our guests and staff there are no other items to come before the council this evening and a motion to a journalist in order move second there's a motion and the second all in favor please say aye aye aye aye opposing a and the motion carries good night and thank you for being with us