thank you that's a good thing yeah um that's beautiful thank you it's all right I think it's time all right I think we're gonna get going folks uh welcome all of you to the regular planning board meeting this Wednesday July 27th where you actually pushed it back a week uh first item on our agenda is a roll call this evening we have Krista Jeremy Trebek we've got John Beckett we've got David Thompson and we have Mike Costello down at the end there's a couple absent members this evening next up is approval of the minutes of May 18 2016. I move approval of the minutes very good thank you do I have a second second very good discussion edits I have one small edit page four item 2C sort of in the middle of the page um it says a proposed land use ordinance to section 18138 after land use ordinance if we insert amendment that takes care of it April so it would read a proposed land use ordinance amendment to section 18138 good catch and my question is do we get to bring back Ruth to make those that change let me know what she says and I will if it's if it's legal uh any other edits all right uh hearing none all those in favor of the uh minutes as amended very good uh just before we get going we do need to designate uh Mike you are going to be a voting member this evening okay very good next up is our long list of public hearings uh first public hearing this evening is an amended subdivision review request by Milos to alter a lot line in the Eagle Crest subdivision at the end of Merit Drive tax map 23 lot 7 in the FNA Zone if we could have the applicant come up and give us a summary of what he proposed to do good evening my name is Milos blagovic we my wife and I own a piece of land about 25 acres on top of Mary Drive cul-de-sac and we like like to relocate one property line from on account um we own two lots there and we would like to relocate one property line on account or another lot so to enlarge one lot and make smaller the other we submitted our plan server has all information and legal description soil test for a lot new lot and we think we fulfill our all requirements for that very good thank you rob before we do open up a public hearing or get a summary from Evan do we have any initial questions from the board very good thank you and before I do open this up to public hearing Evan can you give us a summary uh yeah the application yes Mr chairman thank you this is um you're pretty on the face of it pretty simple matter just moving a lot line to uh this is in the Eagle Crest subdivision the Eagle Crest subdivision was created um 13 14 years ago 2002 it is an eight lot subdivision off of Forest Ave it's along Merrick Drive which was built at that time at the end of uh the cul-de-sac on one side is a lot he ate lot in that eight lot subdivision and uh then at the beyond the subdivision were a number of Acres a large area of residual land that was not part of the original part of that original uh Eagle cross subdivision um what's being proposed is simply to enlarge lot 8. from 3.6 to about 7.4 Acres um and that's really the only thing before you tonight is that simple change it is importantly there was as Milos was working through this there is this residual land and what was understood now apparently better than back 13 or 14 years ago was there was a private road that exists everybody knew that it was there but I think didn't fully appreciate the status of it and that status is as a private road that pre-existed state statute and the subdivision ordinance and under law that becomes a uh in our ordinance that becomes a right-of-way that can serve as Frontage so in fact what we thought was or was characterized previously as one large residual piece of land uh actually is divided by this private road and it's on two it's the two large Lots on either side of that private Road and so that was important to uh to sort of re-characterize it and show it on this amended plan as such where they right-of-way around it it's private road the the lot lines go to the center line of that road but it's just it's just um describing what actually exists under law and correcting the record uh in that regard but the only amendment to the subdivision um is the enlargement of Lot Number Eight which reduces the size of what is now the residual Lot number nine very good thanks any question for Evan all right I am going to open up the public hearing uh before we get going I did have just a couple comments noticed on the the plan I just a little bit of confusion because I see the new lot eight and a reference to a lot nine and a lot ten that are created by the acknowledgment of that road but just a little confusing because you have what I believe is to be the former lot eight so just a housekeeping issue on a on a reported plan just add and former so there's no yeah confusion as to what's new and what is old yeah that's easy to do I mean I'll do ask a surveyor to do that on transparency okay before not not much to add to that but I'll invite comments from the public either proponents or opponents please step up to the mic state your name don't be shy hello I have a few questions and you are I'm Julia McGuire and I live at 38 Union Street um I'm I'm wondering about uh the whether they'll be setbacks and building requirements if um it's going to be a subdivision yes Mr chairman I think that she's on the yep just want to clarify this is uh earlier on the agenda the Union Street subdivision we'll be getting to a little later okay thanks other comments on this application all right I'm going to leave the the public hearing open any any other questions this is relatively simple if it seems like they did you know some good housekeeping to acknowledge the road but I had nothing all right last call for public comment all right I'm going to close the public hearing uh Evan minimal comments on this there are proposed findings of fact yeah there are and I I do want to note a couple of conditions that I would recommend be at and these are just technical right things there was a typographical error note 6 on the plan it should be corrected it says otherwise access that it should be accepted excepted um that's the note that clarifies to the world that if what is now called lot nine and now called Lot 10 which is further subdivided in the future we'll have to compile with all standards of existing right land use ordinance um there's a note that needs to be added by state law there's a note that needs to be added uh per state law that allows a future searches to track the history of recorded plans through time that needs to be added let me ask some clarification because you're going to want these in the record correct yes because under your recommendations you have right now uh to correct the typographical error in note 6. yep and you've now mentioned two other items item two is to add a note to the plan that complies with the requirements of 30A Mrs which is what you just referenced okay yeah and then the third thing is simply a standard one which is the new plan has to be filed at the registered Deeds within 90 days okay so these are what you're saying now is the same ones that are in the dock yes okay correct correct and I had the one request to clarify the note for former yeah to be clear that's the former lot eight of the amesco Inc to Milos and Bonnie lagosovic that's uh because you know what you know we're talking about which okay there are two subdivisions here that overlapped in time and one done in the 1970s and then the one done by Milos in 2002 in that note should say formality there yeah so that'd be a fourth can I jump in here and um under the notes while we're fixing things uh note three um second line located in the forest and agricultural that should be district oh yes note six note two and three what is note three yeah oh there's an e yeah yep good catch thank you hmm we're good I'm going to read into the record these are just proposed findings of fact for the board to consider for the amendment to The Eagle Crest subdivision dated July 27 2016. pursuant to article 7 section 18-208 of the Orono code of ordinances the Ono planning board is considered the application of Milos and Bonnie blagojevic to amend the Eagle Crest subdivision originally approved in April 2002 by enlarging Lot 8 from 3.6 to 7.36 acres the property is located in the forest and agriculture District on Merit drive and based on all evidence presented by the applicant reviewing agencies Town departments and the public the planning board found the following number one lots that Lot 8 will be enlarged by Shifting the property line between Lot 8 and newly numbered lot 9 which previously was considered a portion of the residual land of the subdivider and that all Lots will continue to meet the minimum dimensional standards for the forestry and agricultural district and comply with state standards for Lots relying on subsurface Wastewater Disposal Systems further that the proposed amendment properly re-characterizes the land at the end of Merit Drive which was previously considered to be a single parcel of residual land as two individual Lots now numbered Lots 9 and 10 divided by and with Frontage along an existing Private Road further that the proposed amendment properly acknowledges that future subdivision or future division of lots 9 and 10 if any if such future division constitutes the creation of subdivision Lots will be subject to the land use ordinance standards in effect at the time of the subdivision there any issues with number one hearing none number two streets in traffic that the private road which extends from the end of Merit drive into adjacent property in the city of Bangor pre-existed the state subdivision statute and the date specified in a Town's land use ordinance January 1st 1978 and therefore is determined by the code enforcement officer serves as Frontage for Lots 9 and 10. further that the amended subdivision includes a 66-foot private right-of-way that encompasses the existing private road with a property line dividing Lots 9 and 10 running along the middle of the right-of-way further that the right-of-way may be used for utilities as well as access and its re-characterization on the amended subdivision plan does not affect the existing emergency access rights of adjacent property in the city of Bangalore and further that the amended subdivision plan does not affect traffic volumes or patterns or impact public rights of way are there any issues with number two hearing none number three overall finding is to other elements of the Eagle Crest subdivision that the relocation of of a lot line to a large Lot 8 will not affect any previous findings leading to the original approval of the Eagle Crest subdivision and will not adversely affect any element of the original approval including standards for drainage improvements open space Wetlands Recreation lands sewer and water utilities pollution control or financial and Technical capacities are there any issues with number three very good uh I do believe we're ready for a motion 23 Lot 19 Eagle Eagle Crest subdivision Lot 8 and tax map 23 lot 7 Eagle Crest Family residual property now remember to subdivision Lots nine two reconfigure the subdivision Lot 8 so that is 7.36 acres and the proposed we can figure out nine will be 18.13 acres and a new lot will be created a lot 10 that it will be 48.26 Acres with the following recommendations there are five of them one that the typographical error in Note 6 be corrected two that we add a note to the plan that complies the the with the requirements of 30-a MRSA section 4407 1 assuming that the future title search assuring that the future title searches recognize that this amended plan supersize supersedes the original plan three the amended signed subdivision plan must be recorded at the peroxide County registry of deeds within 90 days of approval four correct the note on the transparency so that it reads as formula Lot 8 in the lot 10 section and five correct the word District the spelling of the word District in Note 3 on transparencies very good any comments we have a motion to have a second second all those in favor very good uh moving on second uh public hearing this evening is a site plan review request by Van Sickle Inc to allow auto sales at 240 Main Street tax map 31-1 Lot 56 in the C2 Zone can I have the applicant step up Mr chairman uh I have uh my cousin is involved in this business um yeah so I think it'd be best if I recuse myself from this item very good thanks for pointing that out good yeah you're good to go all right could I have the applicant step up to the mic can please give us a description of what you propose to do my name is Ed Viner and I'm here representing Van Sickle and where can't hear me my name is Ed Viner and I'm here representing Van Sickle and we're here requesting expansion of permitted use for 240 Main Street to include Automotive Sales very good that was brief any any more discussion or I'm going to turn it over to Evan other than what I've talked I have talked to some of the residents and stuff but they're here to voice their opinions first so I thought maybe you should listen to them first and we take it from there in in good time thank you uh before I do upload open it up to public hearing Evan you also provided a summary of the application could you uh review that for us uh sure um this is a opposed additional use at 240 Main Street to former State Police Barracks property it is the proposed additional use is for Auto Sales uh the current use of bivan sickle is for office space and the garage for reconditioning um automobiles um The Proposal is to add up to 10 spaces for the display of cars on the site um this is a commercial zoning district and Auto Sales and Repair activities are and allowed use in this District it's a small commercial two District along Main Street in this section of Main Street so it's in loud use um it um has um you know some of the standards that would apply to this specifically is that along Route 2 the ordinance requires or enables the planning board to determine whether whether a buffer and screen is required is needed to separate Route 2 from uh from the developed part of the site and the proposal doesn't include a proposal for a 20 foot wide buffer that we need planted with trees and shrubs the plantings would meet the minimum standard for uh Dimensions at the time of planting um the uh the display areas for the automobiles are arranged to maintain a 20-foot fire lane between the building and uh 20-foot passage for fire equipment should that be necessary it provides for parking for employees and other purposes behind the building with an existing paved area there is no new construction involved no as as I understand it and as indicated on the plan no no regrading of the site no new pavement uh no no physical alteration of the site with the exception that the existing uh the existing vegetative landscape area which on the one hand will be narrowed from an existing 25 foot width which is what it is knowledge as wide as it's kind of an eyebrow it will be narrowed to 20 feet along the full length parallel to the road and lengthened by 10 or 15 feet to about 80 foot length to be coincident with the automobiles so the landscape area will be completely coincident with the uh with the displays then there's additional five feet or so of landscaping in the public right-of-way um finally there are a few good four spaces for a display along the side of the driveway and up by the garage and a small landscape island is proposed there um so that is the summary of what is proposed very good thank you Evan uh before I open this up for public hearing do we have any questions from the board to the applicant all right I've got uh just a couple that there are shown just two customer parking spots for the facility you have nine spots out back plus and nine spots okay I just I was looking at up front vision isn't as good as it used to be but I saw a customer parking was called out with one handicap space yeah yep in front and then an additional and then parking out back okay and the the sign that showed the building sign is that just approximately where the former Maine State Police was on the building yes no additional signage no that's it no lighting it's not going to be lit or anything it's just going to be a solid sign okay all right any other questions all right I'm going to open up the public hearing I would invite uh members of the audience to step up with a proponent or opponent state your name please please speak into the mic we do have to record these for the the record together hi my name is Maggie tipping I'm a resident of page place um thank you very much for the opportunity to speak on the proposed site plan I have one General comment and a few specific ones I'm a relatively new resident of Orono but it's where my husband grew up and where we plan to raise our twin boys Aleister and Brennan Orono is a community and every sense of the word we care about the character and the values and the experience of living in Orono and we have come together to welcome new residents and businesses to help them integrate and to create a shared space where everyone can feel safe and welcome and feels at home and in that Spirit I'd like to welcome Van Sickle and their employees to our community and I hope they'll be partners with us in that Community tradition and create a plan that works for everyone as for the current site plan I have some very deep concerns about the idea of having a car lot at the entrance to downtown Orono a nationally recognized historic district the impact of this kind of use would have on our neighborhood and the ways in which it violates the letter in the spirit of our town code and regulations I did have a productive conversation with Mr Viner the other day and he explained that this site plan doesn't reflect their original intent when they brought the property that it was originally going to be offices and a location for service and detailing and not a dealership according to Mr Vine are things changed when they considered the amount of traffic that Main Street currently gets and so they decided to in his words turn the property into a billboard for their dealership by making it into a car lot I do understand that auto sales are currently permitted under C2 zoning in Orno which seems a little bit ridiculous to me because we're talking about one tiny commercial strip that's in a sea of residential areas where so many families live and I do believe that the planning board and the Town Council should close this car dealership loophole but I understand that it's currently and unfortunately the law what's not allowed under C2 zoning however is excessive signage the code is very clear that a commercial property in C2 is allowed one sign of three square foot per lineal foot of building Frontage and the code also makes it clear that all portable signs except for sandwich boards are prohibited I don't see a way that you can run a car lot in this location and have it act as a billboard without violating both the spirit and the letter of this law you can't place signs on cars to advertise you can't put up big sale banners and I'm pretty sure you can't have those wacky arm and tunable played man either the site plan we feel is unworkable and we feel that the planning board should reject it we would encourage Van Sickle to reach out and talk to their new neighbors to host some conversations and to find a plan that will work for everyone I for one would recommend that they go back to the plan that they originally bought the property and create a property that fits with both the Aesthetics of the neighborhood and the needs and values of the Orono residents who live nearby I provided you with some additional written comments from several dozen Orono residents who couldn't be here today on such short notice thank you thank you another record but I do invite other comments good evening my name is Debbie Averill I live at 265 Main Street which is directly across from the property that we're discussing this evening back when the um State Police moved out of the building I began looking at what might happen to that property and I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out at the state level who was in charge of disposing of State Property I finally did do that and they told me that they would check with every state and federal organization to see if there was anyone who needed to use that property before they put it on the market I came and spoke with the folks in the town office who said that um that yes that was the case and that um it might actually be sold without the town having any knowledge of who sold to and um you know until such time as those folks were um you know had to have contact with the town and then we learned that Van Sickle had had purchased the property and again as Maggie said I I spoke with Ed and um he said that they were going to use it for offices bookkeeping offices and for detailing vehicles that they were readying for um you know sale at the Bangor location and that is primary reason for doing that was that he needed to free up spaces that employees were parking at at the Bangor location in order to be able to put more cars in Bangor the town did explain to me that at some point it was allowed for there to be auto sales at that location but that they were not intending to do that um and evidently in the short time between those two times that idea changed um I think that when we purchased our property almost 30 years ago one of the selling points of it was that the state police were across the street um and that it was a safe and quiet neighborhood um and I think that one of the important things that Maggie mentioned was that one of the reasons that they want to be able to sell cars at that location is because of the amount of traffic that comes into Orono on that road and if you live in our neighborhood and you attempt to leave our neighborhood and go into town you will know how much traffic is there because it is almost impossible to get out after about 7 15 in the morning and it also explained at the time and I don't know whether this has changed and I wonder if it has that any interest in any vehicle in the Orono location folks would still have to go to Bangor and buy that vehicle because there wouldn't actually be anybody selling the cars they would simply be on display there and I don't know whether that has changed but I would just like to underscore what Maggie said about um that the what the Orono downtown area is and um the fact that many people come through Orno and comment on what a beautiful Community it is and that the Main Street uh Drive is beautiful and we've watched over 30 years our neighborhood change over time we used to be all completely residential one family residential now right across page plays from us the Murphy's old house is a student apartment house and the house next to it closer to town is a student apartment house not owner occupied but simply student housing so our neighborhood is changing and you know personally I don't think that's a great idea I also wonder not that I'm planning on selling my property but is the value of my property now decreased because I have a car dealership across the street from me instead of State Police barracks so these are questions that I have and love to hear the answers okay I do want to be clear before anybody else steps up uh as it stands our land use ordinance allows and it was acknowledged by the first comment that it is an allowed use we are not going to change that this evening what we do have uh our purview is to require screening and to try to I guess minimize impact in the area I do recognize as I think most everybody on this planning board does through our participation in the comprehensive plan we do understand the the value of the the scenic corridor and that was critical to our discussions however it is an allowed use in that area so further comments about whether it's appropriate and you know impacts on property values that that's not something that we can consider it's allowed so our task is is to review the application make sure it meets all our current ordinances and and see how you know if we can minimize impacts and blend it in with with a corridor that we've we've talked about so just wanted to make that clear but I'm inviting further comments good evening I'm Muhammad musavi resident of page place and been residing there for about uh 12 years and I am speaking here as an opponent of the plan for some of the reasons that were mentioned before me but I don't think this is a foregone conclusion due to my understanding of the I don't know ordinance I'm reading from this page from land use Article 4 section 18 105. um the Old State Police is residing a commercial to C2 District along with several properties on either side of the properties that property so there are about six or seven Lots used called C2 and I'm reading this for you verbatim it says District 2 this commercial two District the purpose of the commercial 2 district is to allow a mix of residential and compatible I emphasize on compatible and in fact the law says residential residential and compatible small scale a small scale commercial and residential against Residential establishments so there are two sentences the question is the interpretation of what do we call compatible small business and whether we view a car dealership as a small business or not these are some questions that I'm just putting on the floor for you to discuss and deliberate on your discussion I'm also going to read commercial one which is for bigger business businesses commercial one says the purpose of commercial one district is to provide for a mix of large scale and a smaller scale commercial establishment larger scale camera and smaller establishment what I do believe is that a dealership the magnitude that is being proposed is fitting in a C1 not the not C2 that's my understanding interpretation of the board and the town may be different but I have to say that let's assume that you approve this plan and we have a dealership over there and another dealership comes two years down the road and says I'm gonna buy the next property so I'm gonna have a we can consider we're reviewing one application this evening and we we can't project down the line sure I I I'm just I'm just asking the reason is this these change of commercial one or commercial two is significant the question is I would like to see an example of and by the way I am looking at also have the site plan here on the site plan I see 2019 cars parked 19 cars park not 10 cars correct that he did clarify that there is employee parking around back so the the plan as proposed is to have 10 and my understanding is to have 10 used cars for sale that would be located along the front plus two customers uh parking spots and then nine out back how many employees going to what I'm trying to say is that at the end of the day there would be a total of 20 to 30 cars in there with the people coming and going very good and I share um your sentiment that I live over there come every day go to my job my work I have to some days I have to work five minutes to get in there and sometimes the car from the other end coming so fast that I I'm scared of other cars hitting me so no imagine you're gonna put the car dealership and again yes this is hypothetical and what is it may happen um we have two more dealerships in there so the question for town is this I'm consistent with the neighborhood the character of the neighborhood right that's the first thing second of all is does this fit to have a car dealership and possibly more does it fit the master plan of town of all or no well currently again I want to be really clear on this we talk about compatible there's a definition of a C2 and then there's a schedule of allowable uses in each district and car dealerships are currently on that list and that's what we have to review tonight we can't judge whether people don't want to look at a car dealership coming out of their subdivision it's an allowable use in the schedule of uses and I understood the you know the definition that you cited but it's currently allowed we can't disallow it sure but this this C1 this is very open and very general is only one sentence left to the interpretation all right well I'm gonna I'm gonna ask Evan a question so we have C2 and I have C1 excuse me please so we have C2 and C1 and the question was raised about the scale whether this meets that I don't know if the town has any standards for what is a a large it does in the C2 District it does um I'm just speaking now from a legal standpoint um um you are you have correctly indicated and I'll say it in more legalistic terms that this is an administrative board that is implementing a review based on the decisions of the Town Council uh in terms of its ordinance uh Mr Wasabi is reading from is the purpose statement for and he read it accurately that the C2 district is as he said and be compatible to meet the per to meet the purpose statement uh as administrative board you do not have as you've indicated the authority to override what the Town Council has already indicated is um meets the meets the objectives of the purpose statement um one of the objectives of C2 district and one thing that's supposed to characterize it is small scale commercial activity and the ordinance includes a limitation in the commercial District of no structure in excess of fifteen thousand square feet of of footprint um and that was to say yes you could have this kind of use but it you can have retail use but it can't be in a hundred thousand square foot shopping center yes you can have a certain kind of other activity but it's going to have to fit within uh you know a physical footprint and I guess yes you could have Auto Sales but you're probably not going to have Auto Sales in a 40 000 square foot building with you know 100 vehicles um but they have indicated found here is is within the terms in terms of land use whether you know you review the standards that's an independent question within the allowed land use um this use fits thank you um and I have to also say that we live in town of Orono and we have to when we talk about the small scale or larger scale we have to look at the context of what we're talking about I have not seen a parking lot with 20 or 30 Parks cars parks in it in Transformer if you know of that except except for here if you know of a business in town of Honor that has 20 or 30 cars parked in it internal Forno up and down Main Street let me know even the gas station at the University entrance does not have 20 Parts 20 cars parked in it so the question is really our interpretation and town interpretation of what a smaller scale is what larger scale is to my belief and for the ton of Honor that has 10 000 population the kind of plan and business that we are talking about I call it larger scale I do not consider it a small scale considering is the dealership it's a mechanic with a three-door garage um I honestly that's at least my interpretation now and finally I'm gonna cut my icon I'm going to give time to others I would say that um loss or loss but we have to also listen to these citizens the laws have been created to satisfy the citizen of that town that that region and if there is a strong opposition maybe the law should be written or should be clarified as what the small business is what the large business is is this really these are some of the questions I'm going to put for you to discuss thank you there is an opportunity and there has been again I refer to the comprehensive plan work this planning board and many citizens of the town of Orono we spent two and a half years going through projecting over 10 years and what what oreno might look like like 10 years down the road and we do consider a lot of things and we're actually one of the two of the hearings later are actually to address items identifying the comp plan so there is an opportunity for citizens to get involved at this point as Evan said we it's an allowable use dictated by Town Council and we can't change that and then again that's the difference of interpretation between what everyone says and what I think what also I bring to your attention two years ago the existing or the old metna and Dr brul's office were sold and at the time we were told that those are small businesses we were told that the purpose of those properties should be create office spaces or compatible businesses in those locations okay I don't have any problem bringing businesses to town of office to turn off or no but honestly looking at this I don't think this is going to be beneficial to turn off I don't know that's my opinion you want to bring a small business offices something compatible fine a state police was great most I could see was they had two or four cars coming and going out of estate police now we're talking about 20 or 30 cars I'm sorry but anyway that's thank you thank you to invite other comments good evening my name is Steve Dexter I live at 236 Main Street right next door to State Police barracks and uh a lot of things that have been brought up tonight I totally agree with and so I will not uh uh repeat those those points um a couple items of clarification um how about lighting security lights will there be all night lights like if you go on Hogan Road where there are you know the car dealerships there are lights on all night you can actually see Bangor lit up from Orono because of all the lights not just car dealerships but also businesses so uh being right next door will there be light pollution is there you know a bunch of lights that will be going going up there as well very good question I'll address that one while you ask according to the application this is the review of the application provided by Town staff no new lighting is proposed for the site there's an existing floodlight on a utility pole at the edge of Route 2 in front of the building that is pointed toward the building the applicant did not install the light it may have been installed by the former owner I did notice because that's a very good question did notice that on the rear of the building it is called out that it says new again having a hard time reading this but new 100 watt LED directional flood lights so it it said no new lighting so I'd like you to address could you address that question now yes nope you have to have to step up please we were aware of some neighbors that had uh were light sensitive and stuff so what you're seeing there is the front of the building not being touched from what was there before like you said the spot that's on the pole is currently lit it's still there we're not changing that there were three lights in front of the service Bays those will stay on on the building as far as the rear we have considered putting a spotlight out there for security but we're not sure we need to because of the neighbors that are around there so that's okay it's on the proposal but it hasn't been decided to so if you're looking at that specifically yes right but it has a it's not a it's not a set thing because most of the cars down back will be cars that are there to be cleaned and cars there are employees cars so okay I just want to clarify that you've heard a concern yeah and it says no new lighting is proposed but in the plan note it shows two floodlights in the rear I don't see any notes in the front that indicate new lighting but correct I did notice that on the plan yeah okay please please continue uh secondly I I'm totally in favor of businesses in Orono and I the initial uh plan of of uh offices and place to detail cars it to me sounded like it was low impact um but then the concern came when I got the letter that uh a dealership but that may be a done deal at this point so uh just another point of clarification uh you mentioned about trees on Route 2 uh kind of hiding a little bit or I'm not sure I wasn't quite clear on the the trees that will be planted right by by ordinance and I'll ask the applicant for a little more information but by ordinance and it's highlighted here that just when I found the popular oh there we go yeah buffering along Route two land use ordinance section 18-126 states that buffer strips shall be required of the following width for the following areas and or purposes and it refers to subsection C along any property line which abuts root 2 where the planning board determines it is desirable and necessary to protect and enhance Cena character and provide for visual separation between the highway and adjacent uses such buffer strips shall not be more than 25 feet in width and there's a picture in the in the summary provided to us currently it's just a grass yard with a very small Bush behind a telephone pole the the proposed site plan before us shows one two three five maple trees planted in that buffer strip with five feet in height minimum five feet in planing minimum five feet at the time of planting right so minimum five feet of planting and then interspersed among the maples is our what was it foreign so minimum of 36 inches in height and it according to plan shows many of them so combination of trees there and then there's along the side Lot where there's it shown four cars or to be placed there's an additional buffer strip or a buffer area buffer Island where there currently is none so again I mentioned as as part of our comprehensive plan we we understand the significance of the corridor uh I don't think there's any question for this application that that screening is uh desired and the plantings that they've provided meet the you know the minimums for the the town ordinance to me it seems a little bit like a wolf in sheep's clothing if you're going to you know put up a buffer so that people won't have to see the the business um but that's that's a little editorial uh I I guess my last point is um on my last uh request if this is a done deal uh nothing's a done deal okay well if if this goes through uh I haven't heard anything about any kind of buffer between the the residents on either side of you know like a privacy fence or something so that we're not looking at 10 cars or whatever from our backyard um I I just think out of uh common courtesy uh some sort of fence similar to maybe like the concerts down by the river in Bangor you know nice nice privacy fence there I think you know unfortunately that doesn't do anyone any good from the front but uh for us who are on either side um you know it just it'll make us feel more like we're you know our yard instead of our yard plus a business and that is something this board considers screening for residents Evan just uh during staff review with the applicant was any side screening discussed uh it wasn't it wasn't it's uh you know it's a legitimate point um I think we can when the public hearings over we can go through the buffering and screening standards and uh right okay okay thank you that yeah once again I I think that a a professional building offices uh whether it be Van Sickle or any anyone else I you know that's I think that's good for the area I really do um and again the initial initial uh purchase for that uh to me is is quite reasonable but I I feel a little uneasy about what what could happen from this point on so thank you thank you thank you other comments all right I'm going to leave the public um I know that this is a fire code situation so I don't know if it's possible but the current site plan has the entrance coming out you state your name again please Maggie tipping yep um the current entrance is coming out directly across from page place which leads to safety concerns with two cars turning left I know that's not illegal but can be challenging I don't know if there's any consideration or possibility of having the outlet move to the other side or having that be a one-way so cars go in that way but don't go out right my understanding was the access points to to that use prior to this application the curb cuts are non-conforming but allowable is that correct because there's three openings they are legally non-conforming yes um you can certainly just discuss whether any of them should be closed if you think that any of them provides a danger right I I guess part of what I think about because I've lived in Illinois an awful long time too is and I'm driven by the Maine State Police Station is considering I mean there was a fair number of people that worked there Fair number of vehicles that were parked around back a fair number of vehicles that were part of the police Fleet so I don't know total numbers or do I have any anecdotal evidence to know whether there's any been any or been any issues for employees for Maine State Police creating because I know where I paid to place is I know where the entrances are I didn't Liberation for this and what they told me is that it used to be when the state police were there that they were very respectful of the residents that lived on page place and would often just let them go unless they had the blue lights on then of course everybody would go and there's also kind of a difference in the safety of a driver with the Maine State Police Officer and someone that's test driving their car in terms of the amount that you're paying attention so I don't know if like there hadn't been an accident there before is entirely he could have of not being future ones but just if there can be any consideration for the safety for the residents thank you all right yes you may address that yeah after talking to Maggie the other day her some of her concerns she's voiced a couple she hasn't one was that she's on a dead end Street and there's already people driving up and down that street at higher rate of speeds than she'd prefer with the kids playing and stuff we did discuss the left hand turn left hand turn and after talking with her on the phone I talked to a couple of my other employees and we talked about it and I don't know if you can do that but I think putting up a dead end sign for their street first off and adding to it no left turn so people coming out of that end of our exit can't turn left there they have to go to the other end of the exit to turn left onto the road I don't know if that's something that can be done or can't be done but that would help the person your application only I mean we're not going to propose signage not on your property okay uh well then I could put one potentially on my property that says no left turn coming out that that side that that would be a consideration I mean traffic movement is one of the many items that we need to consider control I can control my employees most of the time make sure that they do it I won't be driving their cars I can control people that are test driving the cars when they leave the building because they go with an employee right so we can go out that either way and as I told Maggie 99 of the time at most dealerships they prefer to take customers on right-hand turns because you're not cutting across two lanes of traffic for safety issues so typically what we've looked for a route for is coming right out of there and coming up either to Kelly Road or Bennett and coming across there and coming back if they want a highway ride so it's right you don't mind taking a left if you have a stop light but right turns like we talk we can do that so that we looked at so possible signage to divert traffic within your lot is something that will add to the list for consideration in response to all right so I just want to make sure we I mean we have a bigger crowd uh new comments only please we don't want to revisit older ones just because we do have several public hearings ahead of us uh Stuart's actually a three Fernwood Street or no uh I had an office at 236 Main Street for 12 years or so and then at 234 Main Street uh one thing that was mentioned in the vehicles of State Police Barracks very seldom did you know there was any there maybe quarterly they'd have a meeting and they'd have seven Raiders Of Vehicles there but they were very uh very good neighbors and once in a while they'll have a few crashed vehicles out back until they were removed and whatever but uh you had mentioned one thing on the trees on Route 2. I think I heard you say somewhere about the sidewalk there's no sidewalk on that side of Main Street nope okay that's uh I might have got some interference from the airport with using these one other uh item that always worries me I think it said the the packing for 10 vehicles or 12 Vehicles whatever it was uh I assume there could be more than that under the ordinance they they could put 20 vehicles in there if they wanted I my understanding is there was only room for 10 vehicles yes Mr chairman it appears there are only room for 10 vehicles but in any case the plan specifically says maximum of 10 so the only thing that's being reviewed tonight is a maximum of 10. did you get that I I got that but uh what about next week can that come back as another amendment and have 20 vehicles I understand he'd have to come back before the planning board for site plan review we were considering what what they've applied to do yeah right I know what we're doing tonight was I'm just wondering what tomorrow night we can't you know just like we can't project other properties and what they're going to do our task with every one of these public hearings we can review what's in front of us we we're really not looking out for okay that is down the road I guess I understand that but yeah also living in the town long enough in other towns right the next week there's something else coming in or another amendment which this is an amendment to what you people have decided that another point I I assume this uh this is the first time that we've seen an application for this site well this is a long time this says it was an amendment it is yeah at one time that word was there but it got taken out of the public oh okay so it is okay uh the other thing and I I know it's uh again probably shouldn't be mentioned here but uh yeah I assume it'd be up to the town that if there's 20 Vehicles should be out there at one time for some reason is there a penalty that the town can assess it because they only shot what they requested I believe that turns the code enforcement is that code enforcement would uh require them to um come back into conformance with the approved plan um you know there would be official notice and if they didn't within within the specified period of time then there could be some uh further action taken but but you know they there would be a code enforcement action right again there are consequences okay uh one other item on uh if it comes under this uh car dealerships always have a lot of balloons and flags when they're having a special sale is there anything that would prevent that in this ordinance uh I you know I would like clarification on that because the point was brought up from a previous commenter on what's allowed in our signage uh for that size building and then they talked about what you typically might see in a car lot with you know windshield stickers and other signage what are the limitations you know for these 10 cars you could certainly have windshield stickers but it's uh in terms of other signage uh the flags and the pendants are not allowed types of signs in the town of Orono I believe that's true we might want to check with Bill Murphy code enforcement officer but I don't think those are allowed types of signs uh in Orono and there is a size limit uh to the you know total area signs and in any case what they're proposing is a single 15 foot by two and a half foot sign to be on the wall is it this board's opportunity we have heard concerns from um about our nearby residents do we does this board have the the option to propose limitations on uh what what you might see at a car dealership so for balloons and that kind of things that's something you could you could you could certainly say that but the origins already does not allow that uh and you might ask code for I don't know is Bill Murphy here he is Bill can we uh get your services up here please Bill Murphy court officer uh yeah I think that flags and pennants and things like that we don't allow those now so if someone wanted to come in or they put them up uh it'd be something attracting attention to their business we have to be permitted if it's not allowed it's not allowed okay uh Kim so I apologize but we can't have back and forth like that I'd invite you to step up I believe they just did address balloons Penance and flags those kinds of things that's that's what I've heard that those are not allowed so something that calls attention to their business right would not if it's not allowed in the orders it's not there's not allowed to do something extraordinary like that right but is is typical I would assume a windshield with I don't know what you might see a year a price or something like that within the windshield sticker is fairly commonplace so I hadn't thought about that and I guess I'll have to um but just putting a price throwing that out there but all right hey applicant you've heard that concern on uh on signage you've only proposed one you've heard the the ordinance limitation if you would like to alleviate some concerns that might make make it easier on this board in Bangor they do not allow those Street side big banners which I think you're talking about whether it's the car it says sale or it says we Finance or whatever it says so we have no intentions of doing that nor no either balloons it's not if we had a grand opening event you might we might ask per but no it's not something that we're going to do for we don't even expect to have a grand opening event but okay no what signage what you're seeing on the front of the building is all we do put years in a price on a windshield with vinyl but it's not something that stuck off the cars no what they call gumbies or anything floating around yeah no it's it's clean you got 10 cars on display that's what you'll have okay four laps very good thank you thank you Bill all right other other comments all right sorry I got one more item that um whether you people consider or it's already there but that's a very difficult and I think it's been mentioned uh cars driving in cars driving out on the south side is it's just not like a driveway it's a very wrong approach or entrance coming in from Main Street whether that should be controlled somewhat uh at one point the state police did have a small uh I am in the middle of that so that it wasn't all open so I don't know if there's anything in the audience audience that tells you how wide the entrance can be off the main pluses the other the other side of it it's a horseshoe and uh driving in there and I can go from my when I had my office on 236. it's very difficult to get in there or get out with all of the traffic and it's uh it's one of those things I used to have clients that would come in that would back out of my driveway onto Main Street and I'd keep my ears froze to my eye shot but anyway all right thank you I don't know if that comes in but I think there should be some some type of a uh within the ordinance that okay limits how you eat and eat grassland and so forth thank you Stuart next I'm Carrie Dexter I also live at 236 Main Street um I don't want to ask any questions I just have something that I felt I wanted to say where I could be heard um I just looked up the definition of integrity and it says the quality of being honest and having a strong moral principle and moral uprightness so that's the definition I want to share my story with um a few years ago about 15 years ago I lived in Old Town and at about that time Casella eyeballed some land and began a process that made me very uncomfortable with traffic and choices that were being made and I felt sold out and had it within my power my family moved to Orono because it's a place of Integrity it's a place that has always put Families First I understand the need for tax and income but um I just wanted to say that as you consider this we are better than a billboard for Bangor we we have integrity in our village so please consider that I know that you said it's not a done deal and that it perhaps can be done with a working system between both the business and the residents but it breaks my heart to think that we are considered the billboard for Bengal we're better than a billboard for Bangor so I just wanted to say that publicly thank you all right I just have to ask one more question yeah tell us who you are first I live across the street from this property and the question that I wanted to ask is Edwin I originally spoke to you you said that the the cars would not actually be sold in Orono that people would have to go to Bangor to purchase the vehicle yeah when you and I first talked you said well they're going to have to go to Bangor to buy the car anyway so does this mean that in addition to the bookkeepers and the car detailers there are also going to be sales people at this location in order I don't know that we can control types of employees though as part of an application oh no I'm not asking you to control it I'm just asking in terms of the sales of these vehicles do they have to go to Bangor to buy the vehicle all right yeah if you can answer that no they do not have to okay very good public comments we'll take a couple more than the Board needs to discuss well I didn't even come here for this issue but um I live at 360 Main Street I'm Glenn kaler I would just ask you to consider what Wilson Street looks like in Brewer before you approve this it's kind of a nightmare down there okay thank you thank you hi there um I my name is Christina strong I moved to town a couple weeks ago and I just wanted thank you um there's some wonderful people here and I've really enjoyed being here um I have a two-year-old son a baby on the way and a husband working here and we're looking to buy a house in the next year and for the safety of my children I just I'm really excited about being in a residential area and I realized it's zoned the way it is and so my comments are not really I just wanted to say that as someone looking to buy a home in this town and live here for a while and raise a family I am looking for a space that has um cheese and and a safe zone for my kids to be around and I a used dealership is not necessarily where we would be looking for a home um but there are other places in town as well but just something I wanted to throw out there for you all to consider so thank you appreciate it we're good I'm gonna I'm gonna close the public hearing and invite comments from the board uh to the applicant we've heard a number of concerns this evening we've heard about traffic we've heard about side screening for Butters talk about traffic flow within the property to address uh some of the concerns you know the page Place entrance right across uh so [Music] far away so I have just one quick question so in reviewing the paperwork and listening to the audience and whatnot one question did not come up that I think is pertinent that we should consider and that is the question of noise so some car dealerships I've been to have music playing some have noises like some of the detail work that you have proposed excuse me what do you have in your plan for noise as far as the sales nothing outside you know the offices may have radio going on the guys washing cars inside the base may have a radio going on we're not putting a an outdoor PA system I'm not putting sound outside or anything thank you very good uh I did realize that I was handed a number of uh other emails or correspondence from the first commenter I would like to read these into the record or they're an awful lot of them what's your suggestion you need I don't think you need to read them in the record you've all got them we have been provided them and you know they are part of the public hearing record and will be made part of the Republican record and for you you've got them in front of you to look through right as you discussed typically just just so you know it's very difficult for the board and the moment before an application to receive a lot of you know a lot of information to to process so I appreciate that we've heard a lot of comments just a quick glance uh some of the the sentiment in in the emails is is fairly similar to what we've heard so I do appreciate you handing this to us and it is now a a matter of record there is on the last two pages a car dealership site plan with one two three close to 20 people that have uh signed on this and then 28 separate signatures so a lot of folks have weighed in on this I believe with similar issues to what we've heard so I guess with that in mind I guess one one item I'd like to discuss is uh side screening this is a fairly common item uh I can think of I mean take a look at Dunkin Donuts application on a Stillwater Avenue residence to that establishment we we asked for screening there it's fairly typical on the south side of the property I don't know what kind of bushes or trees they are we are completely obstructed to the neighbor on the South Side okay on the north side of screenage fence when we talked to Evan originally and David and Bill one of the things they said that may come up that you might need some type of fencing between their property and our property right so we're not against putting something together and okay putting some type of fence there yeah it will need to address that whether it's fencing or screening it needs to be suitable in the case of Dunkin Donuts again on completely different application I believe that they put up a six foot high fence some people don't necessarily want to look at a fence so some screening will have to be proposed as far as process seven if that was a you know a condition on what this boards are we're going to ask that some screening be proposed if this moves forward but yeah so the you could make that a condition and specify the type of screen that you think would be appropriate uh could be offense could be vegetation could be a combination of the two right um you know the fence could be set for example the fence could be set in uh with vegetation on the other side or vice versa right um board's thoughts on that we've heard the comments I think it would be prudent recommendations or opinions and we've heard from the neighbor I don't think there's any uh preference given as to whether offense but I think we've heard that they don't particularly want to look it up car dealership law well certainly I think a offense makes sense and that's what the neighbors asked for a I suppose they could then plant something along their side of the fence so they're not looking at a bare fence and it would be up to the dealership to decide whether they wanted to plant something on their side and I'm not sure I don't have a bear fence I'm just not sure that we need to prescribe what the solution would be perhaps we would require screening and I might urge you to work with your neighbors as to figure out what's acceptable to them I don't know that this neat this Board needs to tell you what to do but no that's fine you've seen the neighbors it's a chairman I would say that if you do it just make it um yeah that the town staff reviews it then okay finds it for example with consistent with the ordinance Judd has been my right hand man so for uh conditions of approval I need somebody to note these as we as we go along if this application if we're moving toward that way so somebody please take note of a reference that's suitable screening for the South Northwoods north north side of the site along that lot line uh between their abundant property will need to be provided and the town staff is going to review what the applicant has proposed most likely after you've spoken with the neighbors should we consider the people on the South Side as well they we haven't heard from them but uh correct they may have the same concern correct the only thing I just heard was that there already is quite a suitable buffer and that's a natural barrier okay I'm not picturing it right now but yep so cedar trees cedar trees are along that side so okay so that's taken care of so I believe that that would be sufficient okay while we're on the subject of um screening a um five foot high tree if we go to the minimum is shorter than I am that's a mighty small tree here and uh one could get somewhat bigger trees without paying a fortune and uh frequently trees are um sold by a caliper meaning the diameter of the trunk as opposed to how high they are and um we would need to get some information about what would be a good choice I two inch caliper comes to mind I don't know if anybody else we could look into that as to what's standard this is Mr chairman and Krista um I I believe it's within your Province the the minimum standard in the ordinance is one inch caliper five feet at planting which is why I think that's what they put here but if you believe the situation is such because this is Main Street and there is a specific you know buffer kind of standard for properties along uh this along Main Street I believe would be in your Province to require something more than that if that's all right that's a very good point Krista thoughts on that and given the concerns we've heard from members of the public uh exceed the minimum we can go to whether it's two inch caliper Krista knows more than all of us combined probably but uh I have an idea right you have an idea so four yeah BG is going to make a difference if you're planning uh Cedar if it would present a better hedge than if you planted a hardwood so you're proposing right Maple yeah Maples were proposed red maple isn't going to have any leaves in the winter is it so it's not going to be much of a hedge in the winter or buffer so that yeah there was a combination of junipers and maple trees proposed I'm not sure Juniper is a conifer so that would it would Inner Space it would probably work out depends how it's put in three foot three foot high minimum I guess I'm not sure that we're changing the the species as part of our plan your comment was just a larger diameter larger diameter to to start to get something more substantial in there to start with correct you had your hand raised for me only because it's a small area you have five trees going in there to keep that in mind when you're talking about size of tree because it is a narrow it's not that wide so inches still isn't a very big truck I'm not a yeah a plant person so that's why yeah who's our expert on and David as well trees grow yes they do and they're probably going to grow at least a 40 year there and pretty soon they're going to be if you're not trimmed they're going to be too big right all right thoughts on that we've we've heard from a couple of experts on the board additional comments on whether we want to start larger so they've got five they're eventually going to get get bigger Dave shaking his head no other thoughts how long is that strip I can't read the scale on that it's a 70-foot strip yeah with five Maples so roughly what 15 feet per tree that that's quite a bit of room I mean it's for that all right bigger trees as proposed two inch basil eight feet tall there we go I agree Mike that's fine okay I think that uh we'll go with larger trees please okay but no I said larger yeah very good uh uh the island and again that uh the the island to the one side where four cars are I I make them all plant them all the same size please yeah all right other items traffic movement we've heard concerns about uh page place the opposing uh entrances the one on the the side and we've heard a comment about there was an understanding with State Police that that they would let page Place residents go it's a concern the applicant has acknowledged that and can perhaps draft direct left turning traffic to turn right going towards town and then exit farther up is that correct so that you would not be across page place is that right they would use the north exit or a property instead of the South exit to turn left right so that would we would I would understand signage to just say no no left turn right so that that would be a proposed solution sounds pretty simple to me pretty simple a small sign directing people that park out back of the building no left turns from that entrance so they would scoot along the road going toward Town it doesn't look like it doesn't look like you can come from the back of the building you can there's actually a paved space just around that island so that they do not have to enter onto Main Street and to go back in the building so there's enough space so signage to direct traffic to not turn left there does that sound reasonable reasonable all right so that's condition number three okay number three uh that Stewart mentioned and I'm not sure if State Police there was a traffic Island I I think any way you slice it main Street's a tough Street to enter they have three entrances there I don't know how many cars State Police had I think it's always going to be an issue so you know that's that's the way Illinois is I try to leave North Maine onto Main Street and I have just as many issues as the people from page place so that's a lot of cars I think you've heard that loud and clear other concerns from the applicant I I think those were the primary ones we have screening we have traffic we have a budding uh a butter screening on the on the North side signage to to direct traffic Mr chairman of clarification is the no left-hand turn for both driveway both Southern driveways I only understood it to be the one directly across from page place but they do that's fine it's it that's fine so turning off the property they should go to the north right and just loop around to the northernmost correct 100 yes okay all right any other questions uh you know I hope that captures most of what we heard again as a loud use we have things that we we can require I I do think we're coming closer to meeting some of the intents of our comprehensive plan with some suitable screening along the Main Street corridor other comments all right with that I do believe you know we have a proposed findings of fact for this project and I want to make really sure because we've had a number of people come out that we address all the items uh in our findings to capture concerns and and what this board can control and cannot Evan do you have something that I could go off of a proposed findings of fact I just want to emphasize as always this is a starting point you know starting point you can change any of them correct [Music] sometimes they just don't cooperate again to the board please consider what we've heard this evening and the comments that what we have discussed uh as I as I read these off and whether any additions need to be made I'm going to read in the record proposed findings of fact prevention link 240 Main Street site plan review dated July 27 2018. pursuant to article 6 section 18-177 of the Orono code of ordinances the Orno planning board is considered the application of Van Sickle Inc to add Auto Sales as a use at 240 Main Street tax map 31-1 lock 56 in the commercial 2 District based on all evidence presented by the applicant reviewing agencies Town departments and the public the planning board has found the following number one requirements of the district that the proposed additional use of the property in addition to its current use as an office and a garage for reconditioning automobiles is an allowed use in the commercial two district and that the additional use will not involve new construction and will not affect building setbacks or other dimensional requirements of the site are there any concerns or additions that need to be made to number one it's only mentioning reconditioning Autos not sales correct so and I don't know if this was part of the amendment but the proposed additional use of the property in addition to its current use as an office and a garage we need to include sales in there somewhere right the proposed additional use is the sales okay do you want to say that okay get something use of the property for Auto Sales okay yeah I think that would be good to clarify also it's 2016 not 2018. wow as the years fly by uh please get that on the record all right with those additions any other any other comments all right uh Irene no more moving on tight right title and interest number two that the applicant is the owner of the property any issues note number three compliance with Town ordinances and codes that the proposed The Proposal does or is able to comply with the town ordinances and codes any additions or concerns there uh hearing do we um The Proposal as as modified I mean we're going to put on the uh requirement for the screening to the side and we'll have conditions that would be number six so uh yeah number uh Jeremy mentioned that I think we do cover buffers and screening so perhaps any Amendment or additions would be in that that item buffers and screening down below and we do cover parking in number four okay so those are separate okay okay thank you Krista uh so number three generally again that the proposal does or is able to comply with Town ordinances and codes are there any issues hearing none number four utilization of the site that the additional use of the site for Auto Sales with up to 10 spaces for the display of automobiles we use the existing develop portion and will not entail significant physical alteration of the site any concerns or comments there hearing none number five traffic parking and access that the proposed additional use will not significantly increase traffic volumes on the adjacent Main Street will not significantly change access or traffic flows into and out of the site or affect pedestrian circulation and will provide adequate parking for employees and customers utilizing the site we discussed that we're going to have conditions of approval are there any additional concerns or comments moving on buffers and screening number six the site plan as amended and again we've attached or we're considering conditions provides a landscape buffer with appropriate plannings between Route 2 Main Street and the automobile display area on the site that this buffer if properly maintained will provide for visual separation between the road and adequately excuse me protect the visual character of this section of Route 2 and that there will be no other exposed non-residential storage on the site we've amended the screening we've added a side Lot screening we've increased the screening on the front of the site are there any additional concerns hearing none moving on stormwater management the addition of this use on the site will not involve expanding pavement or other impervious elements on the site will not involve significant regrading of the site and will not increase the volume rates or patterns of stormwater runoff from the site are there any issues there hearing none water supply sewage disposal and Electric electrical utilities is number eight that the site will continue to be served by public water supply public so we're an electric utilities and will not significantly change the site's current use of these utilities any issues there hearing none moving on number nine natural features water quality Shore lands that the additional use of the site will not alter natural features of the site and will not affect water quality and that the property is not located in the Shoreland area or flood zone any issues there airing none number 10 hazardous special on radioactive materials Solid Waste Management that the proposed additional use of the site will not generate hazardous special or radioactive materials and will not significantly add to or alter the management of solid waste generated on the site any concerns or comments hearing none number 11 historic and archaeological resources that the proposed additional use of the property does not affect known historic or archaeological resources are there any issues there uh hearing none number 12 Financial capacity that the project will not require the installation or Redevelopment of public infrastructure will not involve significant disturbance of the site for which completion or remediation and a related showing of Financial and Technical capacity would be required any comments or concerns hearing none signage we discussed that at length that the proposed signage will conform with the dimensional standards of the land use ordinance any comments lastly number 14 noise and lighting that no new external lighting is proposed to serve the proposed additional use of the site and that the use of the property will be within the noise limits of the town's noise ordinance I did mention the two floodlights that are shown on the plan you've understood the concern from the neighbors it says no no external lighting yes okay any concerns or comments there well seems to me that since the two new lights will be added we shouldn't be saying no new external lighting is proposed I asked that question and my understanding as it was explained explained to me that right now that they don't propose to do that there was a safety issue but at current you're not proposing any new lighting correct so that's that's what we're reading into the record so um Evan I don't know if that would be a condition I mean I I saw him on the site plan I asked the applicant and at present I just I don't want to approve something and have to go back and address that yeah I I think we could do something but I I the risk of splitting hairs here yes I this what this says is that no new external lighters proposed to serve the proposed additional use of the site I.E the car sales all right I think those lights on the back would be there where they're not all right the sales would be here is that correct and it's for the security of whatever is there right if if we deem it necessary but again you did hear from the public yes they don't want any disturbance from that so yes and they would have to be by standard in any case it'd have to be downward uh right directed and shielded with no spillover it could still be glary though I'm so that's that's not always a perfect solution but at least there are some standards in the ordinance about if there is any lighting um right so if there's concern about lighting that uh I mean you may maybe you should address it uh along the lines of no new external lighting is proposed to serve the proposed additional use of the site in the front of the property and that any additional lighting will be uh compliant with the town ordinance I think that's all we can do at this point so further concerns I understand the safety aspect behind the building but I don't yes and I don't I don't know if you have a problem of people walking back up from the river or anything so it may not even be necessary okay yeah all right so that's another Edition any other comments on noise and Lighting all right hearing none uh I do believe at this point we are ready for a motion and Jeremy's writing I think I've got all four that we talked okay let's take me through how to do a motion all right here's what you're gonna do you're gonna it's easier just to move the yeah okay I move that we approve a site plan review uh request by Van Sickle Incorporated to allow auto sales at 240 Main Street tax map 31-1 Lot 56 in the T excuse me C2 Zone with the following four conditions the first being suitable screening shall be erected along the north side of the property which the town staff will review prior to Construction the second we're requiring the boards requiring a two inch basal area or eight foot tall tree in the front Island area to be planted instead of the one inch or five foot tree proposed as proposed three signage to direct traffic to exit with no left turn when exiting from either the parking area of the business or the or the entrance and four no new lighting shall be placed on the front of the property and any new Lighting on the rear shall comply with the town ordinance okay I would suggest that instead of saying two inch basal area that we say two inch caliper that's how it's usually yeah you really should say too much diameter two inch diameter is a thing you measure diameter with so let's use term two inch diameter or eight feet tall any other comments or Corrections all right we have a motion do I have a second second very good uh all those in favor [Music] all right uh we have I'm going to ask the board's uh opinion on this we have two other proposed hearings this evening both of them are having to do with land use ordinances we're at 9 35 we do have to have another meeting in August which is primarily going to be ordinances I'm not aware of any other items on the agenda so we have to come back anyways so our question to the board is given that we do I mean we have old businesses well I am wondering whether members of the board would prefer at this point to perhaps just move them or do we open a public hearing I'm just thinking procedurally that is I don't want to go there tonight if if we don't have to Jeremy I wonder if you might ask if there's anyone in the audience here to speak to any of those land use ordinance amendments that's a really good comment is there anyone here we have two public hearings this evening one's a proposed amendment to the land use ordinance to provide for self-storage facilities is distinct from warehousing the second item is a proposed amendment to the land use ordinance amending definitions and districts for types of Travelers lodgings and we had a continuation from a discussion at our last meeting for the proposed land use ordinance Amendment discussing purposes and districts of section 18-106 has had to do with schedule of uses concerning land uses and dimensional standards in the C1 C2 and the edz districts for anybody here that showed up this evening that would like to comment on these that's going to dictate whether we push them off into next month or not nobody's here for these land use ordinances all right thank you Evan for that suggestion so thoughts from the board um whether we want to jump into these or since we're coming back in August tackle all three then do it in August agreed I like August fourth or fifth all right sounds good uh you need to propose you need to propose the table the product hearing to your August meeting again procedurally I always have to be refreshed uh a motion or a proposal from the board so I I can make this proposal or do I need a motion second then yeah you need emotions all right there we go I make a motion that we table those two until August two and then the old business as well that's a continuation of the old business as well second the motion very good all those in favor good jumping on a new business we're gonna look at a sketch plan review by Eminem Truck Sales Inc for an eight lot subdivision on Union Street again this is just for Publix benefit uh this is just a preliminary step along the path uh to take a look at the application for this proposed project and decide on a few items we're looking at whether it's a major minor subdivision talk about a description of streets those kinds of things but there is also going to be continued opportunity to review this application and there's going to be a preliminary application after this and then then we proceed to a final so this is the sketch plan stage but it is an opportunity to uh hear from the public and and hear what the applicant is proposing so at this time I'd like to invite the applicant up to give us a summary of what is proposed good evening members of the word my name is Jim Kaiser with Kaiser and Kaiser company I'm here representing M M Truck Sales tonight also here is uh Maury and Mary Thayer owners of M M uh we're proposing uh a eight lot residential subdivision on Union Street and the owners have approximately 30 Acres that they purchased recently down uh at the end of the street and along the street we're taking this as a slow process with the market the way it has been over the last number of years what we want to do is come in and and do a portion of the property so that we don't over extend the development of the property to begin with so we're looking at completing an eight watt subdivision one of the Lots will be on uh public sewer be the first one under the ordinance we're required to do that that we do have soils information on that which will present more in in preliminary plan approval or the process and then the rest of the Lots will be on a subsurface Wastewater Disposal Systems the born of easy water district has a six inch main running down the street so all the Lots will be accessing public water directly onto the six inch main there's plenty of water pressure and water supply in the area so that's not a concern for the district at this point in time we're keeping the lights all uh complying with the ordinance they'll all exceed 30 000 square feet for the MDR Zone uh some extend up to about thirty seven thousand uh square feet we have one Culvert along the road that we're kind of keeping as a location for a sideline so we're kind of got the spacing of the Lots conditional upon that so we can get drainage off that Culvert and improve a little bit of drainage right around the road down in that area and run it back towards the railroad spur all a lot pretty much drains towards a railroad spur and then across towards Mack Brook uh Johnny MacBook and the mainline railroad back in there so uh like I say it's a eight lot sketch phase right now uh we'll be looking to come back uh to the board where probably be making the mission for preliminary application um in a week or two uh to get in line for the next available meeting I think which would be the September meeting if I remember it correctly and then present uh the full preliminary application at that point in time so we're really looking for direction and uh comments from the board uh that they may have in reviewing uh where we are right now and look forward to continuing the process with the board we do understand that you have widen or propose a wide in the right-of-way you know offering up yes we have proposed five feet on that to kind of uh get that out to the 50-foot standard it'd be five feet on our side so that rather than trying to move the center line of the roadway if we went that way we offered five feet on that we hope the town will be receptive to that and we will do that as a fee interest we we're not going to do it as easy we'll give that deeded area right to the town okay any initial questions to the applicant Evan has again provided us a summary of towns staff review [Music] Evan could you let us know what town staff is is reviewed and items that you've identified sure um this is as explained a straight uh residential single family I assume single family house lot subdivision along an existing street so no new streets are proposed known extension uh Public Utilities is proposed no extension of street or no improvement to Union Street itself is proposed except for the providing a five-foot strip along this Union Street that would widen it to a 45 foot right away right now that right away at Union Street is 40 feet the standard in the town if a street were being built new today is 50 feet they're proposing to take five feet on their side so should there ever be opportunity to go 5 feet on the other side it would be the full 50 feet at this point um there is no turnaround Union Street at this point it's just a dead end what's happening now um is that I gather City vehicles that have to go down there to plow or pick up trash and so forth need to uh it looks like the pattern is to go on to the private property at the end of Union Street which is now owned by Eminem Truck Sales um to uh to turn around um at present um there is no sidewalk anywhere along Union Street uh all the way up to um margin um and this is I think that's important to note that this is a fairly long Dead End Street and that is naturally it's it's an existent situation um and development is allowed along it according to our ordinance uh Union Street could not ever be extended more than another 2500 feet but that's already pretty long Dead End Street um two things that are always considered in those situations and are worthy of discussion with the applicant is first of all is some kind of even temporary until other plans are known uh turn around able to be provided here whether it's a hammerhead or something on the property where the turnaround happens now or something as more development comes to the street and secondly we are always looking for possible ways to interconnect when there is new development is there adjacent property that might serve as a point of interconnection to improve Public Safety primarily fire access emergency vehicle access should there be a tree across a road or a fire or something like that that would otherwise block that access and um there is one point of possibility and it's really a matter of discussion whether it's here or at some later Point as they're as their plans evolve but there is a former right away that was a Spur off to Ayers Island no more news um it's obviously owned by the railroad but that is one place that there might be requested per our ordinance a connection not a built connection but the rights a a right-of-way that should there at some time in the future be the opportunity to acquire and and build a local relief for railroad still owns that Excuse me yes um it would it would allow for a bypass of the lower end of Union Street um there aren't an awful lot of other ways to connect up because of the railroad uh the main the main line railroad that runs through uh that part of town so that's a mayor discussion um and whether that should happen now sometime in the future if at all and then finally it is important as Mr Kaisers noted that this is um only a little over six acres of a 30 acre total holding preliminary plan will require the presentation of some sense of what might be involved on the on the rest of that land and I don't know how ripe that is I don't know how far along they are in their thinking application must have some discussion of that so that you can help evaluate uh what kind of cumulative impact there might be that needs to be understood now and um so those those uh were my those are my comments uh that that I think uh relate to the sketch plan thank you just for the boards we have some newer members and some that have been here a while we've been pretty consistent uh as a board trying to promote the interconnectivity and recall that that was part of our comprehensive plan uh Trying to minimize the the dead end straight Network that that this town has gone down that road I guess uh for a long time now and trying to uh I guess mitigate not past sins but how things have been developed has been of key interest so interconnections and then from a safety standpoint uh you know I would expect that the fire department would would weigh in on some sort of turnaround an existing uh turn around where they're just going on private property happens to be owned by it sounds like Eminem Trucking the same owner but uh we've usually try to Rectify some of those situations in past projects so we've been fairly consistent about that so uh I guess questions for the applicant we do have a bunch of people that have showed up tonight I appreciate you sitting through all of that I will open this up uh in a little bit so we can get some preliminary comments but again please understand that there's there's two other meetings after that so we're trying to keep things fairly General and we'll dive in pretty pretty deeply once we see more of the application at the next stage but uh questions from this important to the applicant I'm going to ask you what about the Hammerhead cul-de-sac you know interconnectivity yeah Evan and I you've talked about it and certainly we'll be looking at that and uh we will as our first step when we always look at property depending on size the property is is to look at the big master plan and so uh bringing in a sketch of long-term plans is is not an issue with us because we did do a master plan for this so we that's that's fine with us and we see that through the ordinance and that's that's a good aspect of of uh planning for the town overall so we will have that and we will show some interconnectivity uh on that uh it's a tough area down there as Evan pointed out and so uh you know but we'll make an attempt to try to you know give us an option in the long run or give the town an option in the long run so that there is some connectivity but that will probably come down and in at least the next phase if we take this in a multi-phase I could see potentially three phases involved with this property um going forward this being the first phase another phase would extend the road a little bit further and then the third phase May go down towards the river Frontage on it each step has its own complications associated with it uh that will have to overcome but I could see it as a multi-step process before the board and and over the next coming years uh as far as a turnaround I think basically the town technically has prescriptive rights on it all already because they've been using it for so long but I think we can put together at least show it on our preliminary plan a uh formal easement around that area that we probably give as part of that uh five foot strip to the town uh so that that is formalized and probably put it in there as a temporary so if it if the roads extended then it automatically kind of drops out when the next phase is is accepted by the town from that standpoint and it's also good to note to uh if you looked in a sketch plan you see that the the road actually in the sharp turn coming around down at the bottom actually crosses Eminem's property and so we're actually going to move the right-of-way over far enough in that area and give more land in that area so that it wouldn't comply with the 50-foot right-of-way should um it be needed it will give it so that we're 25 feet off of our the center line of the road so that there's adequate space on that side going through that curve also so that will be part of our our deed over to or our proposal deed over to the time in discussions with staff and again I'm just going to refer to what we've talked about in the comprehensive plan uh the walkability the safety aspect of it so there's no existing sidewalk on Union Street I don't know if that was part of any discussions but we we spent a lot of time talking about that as part of our vision for the town's future and current road so I don't know that was brought up in town I don't think we have the space I'm just looking at the right-of-way well yeah I mean if it's narrow the additional five feet would help along those lines but it would be a sidewalk to Nowhere there is no sidewalk at this point right so there may be um so it's a matter of discussion I I right now it doesn't look very feasible for a sidewalk Beyond this point but I think we we've wrestled with that point though sidewalks to Nowhere with with other subdivisions and I don't know that you know any precedent has been set but uh one of the gentlemen that was here for our first public hearing is a sidewalk to Nowhere In His subdivision as as it was called when I first joined the board so I've heard that referred to before so I I'm not I'm just I'm not sure given our comprehensive way to understand the trail system and things like that you know as time goes on because that trail system May provide some pedestrian Alternatives but anyways it's a matter of discussion uh okay right now there is no sidewalk there it's fairly narrow I don't know I talked with Rob bjerks that I understand whether that might be achievable you know beyond the subdivision and it did not seem uh lightly but okay we're only in the very early stage of this so we might come to a different understanding as time goes on I just have to keep referring to the document we just spent a long time on in that walkability aspect was was the key item other questions all right I'm gonna open it up for public comment again please uh consider that this is step one of many my name is Roxanne Sinclair and I live on Brook Street abutting the property that they have bought um most of that down there is wetland there's a lot of wildlife a lot of people use that for walking their dogs you know ATV trails all that and um if you're gonna try to use an exit coming off from Ayers Island are you going to replace the as Island Bridge because that's been posted no traffic I believe the reference was just to the railroad spur that connects to Ayers Island Bridge is just looking at the map so just be the the railroad bed that's closer to the railroad runs behind these eight Lots right right but the railroad bed is gone they have taken that out yes that's a good thing but the right-of-way exists yeah and uh what what may be in discussion is a a way to connect the lower part of Union Street to that right-of-way should there have to be a relief access at some time in the future around that lower end of Union Street so just connect to it will stop at Union Street it wouldn't go beyond Union Street we just I mean there's so many dead ends in the town and just rather than from a safety standpoint we're just that's part of what we are tasked with doing is is looking whether there's a connectivity so you can have some looping it's better for safety better for utilities but it isn't um also I understand that where we live down there is agriculture am I correct Joe's Here Yeah medium density residential is the Zone that's been identified where this project is going to be right in the middle so not to my knowledge that it's it's MDR it was forced agriculture one time that guy it was always bombing right that got changed a number of years ago yeah the medium density residential so now they have to meet the standards of the current ordinance and that again similar to that previous application that's what we can review the standards that are in place right now and all the traffic that's going to be added we have had enough time coming out of that Hill coming out of Island Avenue right and my other main concern is you're going to put single-family dwellings correct that's what's proposed I believe okay all of Island Avenue all of Margin Street now is single family residents they are all applaud they're all occupied by college students and we really don't want that behind us yep so that is one of the things I think you should consider because there's no way to keep them out yeah you know do you know what I'm saying we talked about that issue with account plan too again we have to review an application because it's hard for us to predict the future but you know what he says single family dwellings that's what's proposed in the lots and that's what we review but uh there's been a lot of comments on property values and students and it's a it's not a town-wide concern right because we try to follow the ordinance as best we can and and meet with the Town Council has given us to uh try to understand where you're setting yeah but as homeowners down there we don't want that riffraff down there yep we've got enough from the bottom of the hill up we don't need any more okay okay thank you thank you other comments you sat through all this good for you yeah hello again proper time now Julia McGuire at 38 Union Street I have a couple of questions I know it's the preliminary stages um I also would like to put on record my concern about the traffic pattern um changing in the neighborhood and the challenges with emergency planning potential safety in nearly doubling the number of families on the Block and the lack of sidewalks has been addressed I'd also like to Echo that as a concern with increasing the number of cars going up and down the street um I am also curious as to whether they're going to be covenants and whether for the subdivision are there going to be particular building requirements as for square footage garages What specifically constitutes the size of a single family dwelling and how clear the Lots might be will they be completely raised um and if there are particular covenants of the requirements for this subdivision might the residents in the area have a copy of whatever is going to be proposed and I think those are my questions as of now those things are typically included either in a preliminary or sometimes the covenants might be in that last stage but okay usually that information I'm not necessarily sure on the the amount of clearing per lot but any proposed easements covenants restrictions anything are usually part of the application okay and so that'll be con conveyed to local homeowners you will get a notice anytime well for both applications for public hearings as we need to have one for the preliminary plan we'll need to have one for the final plan you heard the applicant talk about well many is mentioned in phases for what might happen in the future but this board will have two more hearings on this and all the butters will be notified what's I don't know within someone is very very than 500 feet 500 feet right so um it's chairman could I just just so there's no misunderstanding yes that if there are covenants proposed uh the chairman is Right usually we those are stated on the plan or in the materials uh the town orders does not require any covenants okay we don't require a minimum you know minimum three thousand square foot home or something like that and we don't require garages and um um to some extent the the planning board can review um whether there are significant trees you know over 24 inch diameter for example and and uh and in in some form of a manner require those to be um that was reviewed and determined whether they should be saved um but beyond that we don't if there is a there is no requirement for a covenant for public access for Trails for then we might you know require covenants for interconnection that sort of thing as we've just discussed but in terms of the quality of the homes other than meeting building codes and so forth the town has no requirements no minimums for that sort of thing right there's a whole list of the application process and it's a really great read if you want to dive into the ordinances but it lines out all the things that we review as part of the planning board process so feel free to visit Town staff if you want to understand what what items we we are typically looking at thank you and Could you um could somebody clarify just one more thing and the discrepancy that I I may have misheard between um you said that there wouldn't be more than 20 to 25 feet extended beyond the road and then I heard that in phase uh three two and three that there might be a plan to extend the road further um uh in the preliminary subdivision plan which will I believe that Mr Kaiser said they're proposing to submit soon in order to be on the September planning board agenda they have to provide a some concept if if a property owner owns more adjacent land than what is presently being proposed for subdivision they must present a general concept of what might happen what might be proposed in the future for the rest of their Holdings um on the road length a new subdivision cannot have a road a dead end Road of more than 2500 feet so you know that's pretty long but that's what the standard is so um any more than that requires an interconnection but we would but there's also requirement for interconnection for to adjacent undeveloped land and and that railroad right away might qualify as such just to provide some looping possibilities in the future thank you so stay tuned okay other comments good evening Alan Netto 103 104 Union Street I have a couple issues maybe questions there is a active Eagles Nest on that property I have letters dated November 9 2005 which fell under uh the state of Maine as far as the endangered species and uh threatened species habitat um I think that that should be looked in all too also before that this is uh you should have copies of that here at the town okay the other thing is you're talking about using the old rail bed as far as a looping thing well let's all let Wetlands on each side of that so I don't know I think that would be a tough sell to put a roadway in because we have an aquifer rate there along that rail bed uh the traffic would be an issue we have a hard time getting out of Island Avenue now depending on how many properties they actually develop proposal now is for that but how many more and if there's no other way out I mean that just that looping wouldn't do it because it would kind of put a bottleneck at almost the turn of Union Street where it turns by the boat launch you know there's a few issues of sidewalks and other things people are going to be walking they do now and roadway is quite narrow but uh yeah you should take that into consideration and look at that very good that is an issue thank you very much other comments okay hi I'm Paul Schrader I live on Hamlin Street I just have a couple questions for clarification um is this entire parcel you know the whole uh three-stage build out or whatever it is is the entire parcel that is involved here zoned medium density residential yet a portion of a Zone uh would be zoned Shoreland zoning the the along the river there would be uh I think it's probably Limited residential Shoreland zoning but it's otherwise MDR yes that and that and then that that brings up my second question was does this parcel actually extend to the river well um there are two Parcels here one is a 9.2 acre parcel which is just on that uh um Far Side of the mountain river side of Union Street and what's the the subdivision is proposed within that 9.2 Acres taking 6.3 Acres of those 9.2 then the adjacent parcel is 20 some Acres I think Mr Kaiser said so that the grand total was around 30 Acres that is at this point not part or not proposed as part of the subdivision there is no development proposal the preliminary plan will require them to show is if they have concepts for that or the Board needs to have some understanding of what might be proposed there but it's not going to be yeah a ruling on that or making any decisions on that is time but it would be nice to know the things about what the natural resource and sensitivities are what the historic resources might be back there uh what kind of Road system are they talking about there what generally how many even though this this was conceptual at that point because they're not asking for any approvals for that it's just for the board to be able to better evaluate these eight Lots in some larger context but but but yes that that the rest of that 30 Acres goes down to the river and then about how much of river Frontage is involved in that parcel I understand now there are two parcels and this isn't part of the actual application here but how many feet of river Frontage are we looking at you could ask Mr Kaiser I don't know yeah I don't let's ask the applicant if he happens to know that again this is way out as far as potential yeah if you have an answer it's about 1200 feet if I recall along the river for that secondary parcel uh down there right uh yeah just to uh follow up my my comment which is uh I understand that this is all far out um but um you know there's a concept here that is probably not as far out as we're thinking at the moment so thank you very much thank you we'll take a couple more and then we'll do today doing well you don't need that 112 Union Street uh the woman and Brett and Patricia singer I hear that's on on the railroad side that we're talking about goes across drives Island Ayers Island I hear they bought that that piece that goes across there they're not here to verify that but I have heard and they have been working on that area so something you want to look into anyways okay because I mean it again if they propose something we'll just evaluate that but yeah we don't know yet but the connectivity whether it's a railroad bed that well that goes through a wetland I mean we're just looking at options and if there's an opportunity to connect that's going to improve safety in an area for any project that's something that this board is going to look at I love it I heard that these people bought that right away across it goes from the from from Union Street to try this okay we're stopped we might have an answer on that can you uh shed any light on that it's a portion between the river and Union Street that was bought a question that runs from Union Street back to the main line is still owned by the railroad okay so there was a there's just a small what is it probably a couple hundred feet that runs from Union Street down to the river towards air island is where it actually crossed over onto Ayers Island okay in the back that portion was purchased so we'll see any proposal in the next stage anyways very good last call yeah after 112 Union I just have a question is there a number of residents or houses that determine when you need another entrance to an area because there's only that one one street going down right I think even he mentioned the length if you could shed anymore within us within a subdivision uh this is this is at the end of any right now this pro project is at the end of it is 15th Street so and they're not proposing any new streets but within a subdivision there cannot be a length of more than 2500 feet or serving more than 20 homes without a way to connect without an interconnection that would start from the end of Union Street if you know that if part of the 30 Acres involves extending the street it couldn't be more than 2500 foot extension or more than 20 homes long that without an interconnection it wasn't that distance related to fire safety and access for a hose I heard that um it's these things are all yeah all right yeah yeah yes it's it's it's a long run yeah but we're dealing with an existing right-of-way right uh for land that has um you know Frontage along that right-of-way right and uh so the limitations have to do with the construction of a new Street for a for a subdivision so right now the number of houses an answer to your question there's an existing Road Frontage to that parcel and they have to meet the road Frontage standards for each lot and what they've lost their building and for what they've proposed for the existing length of Union Street so that that's what we've looked at so far and again phase two phase three that that's beyond what's proposed but we'll we'll ask those questions as part of the preliminary plan but right now as I look at it the the number of lots is dictated by the amount of Road Frontage that's there right now just on the ones they're building yes on all the existing houses that are their their side of the road that whole run of Union Street that's already a long run but they have to have a minimum lot Frontage along Union Street and that kind of tells them how many Lots they can okay that there's going to be so many people down there if there was some disaster or something you're going to have 50 60 right again right now I'm just looking at this you know we're going on the medium density residential standards that again the Town Council approved way back before we were going so that that's what we have to review when they show that they have sufficient Frontage along that road that meets one of our reviewed criteria okay it doesn't matter there's only one way out to the group two I mean jump in Mr chairman it's certainly a concern yeah and it's one of the first concerns we mentioned to the topiana you know we will clarify at the ordinance so we talked to fire department and that sort of thing and during the preliminary review when we see the culinary plan there will be a lot of comments from staff and so forth on this but the legal this is an existing right-of-way and let me let's just let's assume that it wasn't your industry wasn't built decades ago before the ordinances let's say it was built in 2000 and that there were 15 homes along it right now and now the developer came along and said I want to build six more homes because that was part of a sub new subdivision and a new road serving that subdivision it couldn't be more than 2500 feet or 20 homes without an interconnection this is different because this is a long standing road that was built long before there was a subdivision ordinance even and um and with existing Frontage so the number of dwelling units is I mean I'm not going to say it's not a concern we look heavily to the fire department say what's the issue there are there things there that well that concern you that allow you to uh would that you caution the planning board about at this point uh in the in the email there in the in the comments that we have from our our Deputy fire chief is that the water pressure is very good the hydrants are good and that at this point he is satisfied that that this is and we'll get a formal comment during the preliminary plan so this is just REM all very at the beginning of the process so my guess is that he won't have troubles with these eight Lots okay um we don't know about what might what the future is at this point nobody on staff or the board has an idea of what may be thought of for the remaining 30 Acres when the preliminary subdivision plan is given will have some larger concept of that and um you know fire safety is always an issue and there are some standards um the way they apply to an existing long-standing pre-existing I should say Dead End Road is different than if there was a brand new subdivision coming off of Main Street like page place was or one of those okay all right thank you thanks a lot all right last one Kathy Nuttall 104 Union Street uh I'm concerned what kind of places you're looking to put these what kind of dwelling is these going to be are these going to be nice homes are they going to be apartment buildings are they going to be College people what are we looking at here right and you're talking about three phases with no answers I mean what is this this is real early in the process as we understand that so nervous we're really nervous down there what's going to happen to us right all we've got on the table now is a sketch plan review for eight lots for single-family home he said he was willing to tell us what is he looking College type housing we we don't know that right now it says single-family homes and I'm sure is part of the application these questions are going to come up again so nobody else can build on the wetlands there's limitations that you know they they have to follow all the rules after you know deal with state requirements deal with time requirements so those those issues will be addressed well we've all seen in Arnold all these big places we don't want that down there okay and we want to stop it before it happens so we'd like to know what they're proposing what kind of residential buildings are you thinking of is this going to be for People Like Us raising families or is it going to be the college people well we'll have more information during that preliminary subdivision I think we've heard a lot of the same concerns tonight and we appreciate everybody coming out but there's going to be a preliminary application submitted now three phases we'll find out we'll find out more I appreciate your your concern but I mean we we only know so much this is as far as we usually go during the sketch plan and we'll learn more a little bit later thank you all right I'm going to close that uh last comments from the board I do thank Evan's review comments talked about we know that lot one is proposed with public sewer we've talked about a future connection we haven't seen what the the options are we're going to see that next time uh we I think he's heard loud and clear that concepts for future development what phase two phase three might hold you've heard a lot of comments on we're going to want to hear about that uh we are going to expect to see a turnaround option uh whatever you're going to propose timing you mentioned that you anticipate this September meeting to come in for okay so you heard it here you're going to get a postcard but you know tentatively we might see uh or this board might review a preliminary application in September uh what are we at third was it third week third Wednesday of the of the month so just keep an eye out for those of you that have an interest in this application and I other than all the other comments any last questions for our applicant Evan remind me on sketch plan please yes sketch plan your job is to classify it as a major or minor subdivision by definition it is a major subdivision if they're a new road you would have to classify the road but no new road is proposed so I think it's just a motion uh to formally classify it as a major subdivision which requires a preliminary and a final subdivision State can I have that motion please I move that we classify um the Riverside Estates at Union Street tax map 31-2 lot one as a major subdivision thank you I have a motion do I have a second second very good uh any other comments all those in agreement very good see in a couple months uh I'm trying to find my agenda thank you very much thank you thanks to all of you for uh sticking through this there will be more to come next item is discussion again we tabled three items tonight I'm going to ask the board to review uh what Evan provided the definitions uh again some of the discussion so be please be prepared for our August meeting uh to hammer on those Evan do you know that we're going to have any other ordinances in addition to these coming out of council can I ask for a quiet on the way out we're almost done here please all right what did you say ask all right can I can I ask for some quiet we're almost done with this meeting we're just going to be able to get this on record uh Evan do we have any other proposed ordinances that we're going to be reviewing um I or just these three that we've tabled these are the three but hang on I have to keep a chart keep myself straight uh these will be these will be the only three very good so um there are a couple we will be moving once these are under our belts we are already starting to move towards some of the bigger ticket items okay uh that will take longer to prepare and discuss preliminarily with the council before they get referred to you but there will be uh you know the Main Street overlay District we're actively now doing the background work on that um and uh you know there are half dozen Big Ticket items out of the conference of plan that will be probably take months to all right so something to look forward to folks uh tune in later all right uh thank you Evan so that was discussion last item is adjournment kind of motion we adjourn second very good discussion all those in favor foreign