Welcome to the Scottsdale Planning Commission public hearing. The city appreciates your interest and participation in the public hearing process. The planning commission serves as an advisory board to the city council on land use and zoning matters. The hearing agenda items consist of development applications that require public hearings. Planning Commission considers the item and makes a recommendation for approval or denial to the city council. The city council will make the final decision for or against approval of the application. The agenda consists of the roll call, administrative report by staff, public comment for non-aggendaized items, approval of minutes from the previous hearing, continuences for items that will not be heard tonight, withdrawals, consent agenda items for uh that not likely to require presentation or discussion, regular agenda items which where each item includes a presentation and recommendation by staff, a presentation by the applicant, and public comment. Non-action items are for discussion only items. No vote will be cast by the planning commission. Citizens wishing to speak on any agenda item will need to fill out a blue speaker card or if not willing to speak, they may fill out a yellow comment card and turn it in at the staff table before the agenda item is to be discussed. The chair will call your name when it's your turn to speak. When called, please come to the podium, state your name and address at the then begin speaking. Groups wishing to speak should elect a spokesperson to represent the views of the group to to facilitate the meeting. Your comment will be limited to three minutes for individual speakers, one additional minute for each additional individual who is present at the hearing and has contributed their time to a representative speaker up to a maximum of 10 minutes total. Please format your speech to fit within the allotted time. A light system is installed at the podium for timing presentations. The light will be green for two minutes, yellow for one minute, and red when your time is up. Please conclude your comments when the red light appears. Thank you for your interest in time. Now, we'll begin the meeting the hearing with a roll call. >> Chair Young >> here. >> Vice Chair Scar Bro >> here. >> Commissioner Gonzalez >> present. >> Commissioner >> here. >> Commissioner Joiner >> here. >> Commissioner Drake >> here. >> Six here. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, now we're on to public comment, which is non-aggendaized items. And it looks like we do have one speaker for that. Uh, it's either Steve or Christa Cross. >> Yep. Right there. Thank you. Please state your name and address for the record. >> Steve Cross. >> Christa Cross. >> 9201 East Happy Valley Road is our proposed site. Our home address is 10231 East Salt Bush Drive, Scottdale, Arizona. We came tonight just to quickly introduce a proposed project that we have. Uh Christa Cross is going to do a micro school with your approval of course of 40 students. She wants to lease two existing classrooms in the education building of the Living Water Church at 9201 East Happy Valley Road. Uh Chris would like to speak now. >> Sure. Um just letting you know I do have more than 30 years of education experience and I have 21 years of running a school. Um I've actually been requested to start this micro school. The area is underserved at this time. So um I'm hoping that we can get something through so that the next school year the students I currently have will still have a home with me. Um, if you have any questions, please let us know. And the existing building, we want to emphasize it's a 4,000 plus square foot education building at Living Water Church, uh, on the south side of Happy Valley Road, east of Pima Road. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh on to the administrative report. Mr. Curtis. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the planning commission. Just wanted to draw your attention to additional correspondence that's in front of you that we received today. I think uh there's correspondence on each of the cases on the uh agenda today. So, I wanted to draw your attention to that. And then our next regular scheduled meeting is um February 11th, but as of right now, we don't have any uh cases scheduled for uh February 11th. So, we may end up canceling that one. Just wanted to give you a heads up on that. And that's all I have, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh we'll move on to the minutes. Uh are there any changes or a motion? Chair Young, I uh make a motion to approve the January 14th, 2026 amendments as provided. >> Second. >> Okay, we have a motion and a second. Can we get a roll call vote, please? >> Chair Young, >> yes. >> Vice Chair Scarro, >> yes. >> Commissioner Gonzalez, >> yes. >> Commissioner, >> yes. >> Commissioner Joiner, >> yes. >> Commissioner Drake, >> yes. >> Motion passes. Thank you. >> Okay. Um well on our agenda we've got four cases all on consent right now. Um is there any anybody that wants to move any anything? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Gonzalez. >> Yes. I'd like to move uh uh I'd like to have a presentation on the uh move the consent agenda number two, three, four, and five onto a regular agenda if I could please. >> Okay. So, you want to move you want to move everything to regular agenda. Okay. >> Yes. Thank you. >> All right. All right. Well, uh, how the action agenda works, the planning commission may take one vote to act on all items on the continuence agenda and one vote on all items on the consent agenda. We've pulled everything off of consent. Um, we will be moving on to regular agenda where we will vote on each item indep individually. Um, and then any persons interested in commenting on any item may complete a comment card that I mentioned earlier for each item uh, and submit those to staff. So why don't we start with uh consent or regular agenda item number two 6AB 2024. >> Good evening Chair Young, members of the planning commission. My name is Jason Katz with planning department here to present 6AB 20224 the 114th Street abandonment. Here's the overall site context area just south of Sha Boulevard on the 114th Street alignment. Closer look, this yellow outline is the abandonment area. Uh 30 ft on the east, 25 ft on the south. and the zoning all within R143 whether under PCD or PRD to the east and west action request is to make recommendation to city council to adopt this resolution number 13595. History of this abandonment area uh rights away were dedicated to the city in 1980. No roadways were ever developed and with the platting of the neighboring subdivisions of the east and west the rightway rights away were never incorporated or utilized. Uh current conditions, the north 114th street uh from East Barrel Drive is non-ontiguous to the north of 114th Street south of Sha Boulevard and the north 114th Street East Barrel Drive at dead ends at the northeast corner of the applicant's property. Uh the southern 25 ft of the rightway along the East Gold Dust Avenue alignment serve no purpose but to encumber the applicant's property. Here's another look at that. how the 114th street just dead ends here at the northeast corner does not this right ofway was dedicated but never utilized. Impacts of the abandonment uh the applicant is to dedicate a 50-ft radius culde-sac that will improve circulation at the end of that uh deadend road for refuge and emergency vehicles. city will receive uh compensation for that abandonment of rights away and the applicant will increase their buildable area and reduce their setbacks and with the removal of the setback on the southern or the rights of way on the southern property line. They'll no longer be considered front front yard and the owner will be able to build a fence along the drainage ement to prevent wildlife from entering the property. Uh this highlights the culde-sac dedication in the green and the drainage easement in the blue and here's the site plan from the applicant submitt. Once again the action request is to make recommendation city council for the approve adoption of this resolution. And that's my presentation. >> All right. Thank you. Does anybody have any questions for Mr. Katz? Uh or should we wait until after public com speakers? Okay, we'll wait until after the speakers. >> Believe the applicant is here as well with the presentation. >> Okay. Yeah, let's do that. Are there um we've been trying for this season for a couple years. We are in the process. >> Excuse me. Could you please state your name and address for us? Sorry. Thank you. >> Uh name is Amitesh Casera and the address is 11345 East Bar Avenue, Newcastle. And uh we started this uh easement and drains process for around about two years ago. We have a lot of heavilas, a lot of wildlife coming in and we have two small kids are sitting here too and we come across going to the backyard. A lot of uh these wildlife people like dangerous nighttime they all come in. We have a big drainage easement. So we trying to put a fence around and uh block like there's no privacy in the back. Anyone can come in. So we just trying to put uh put a gate there so we can block that area. >> Okay. Uh is that your whole presentation? >> So in terms of the presentation, yeah, that's >> okay. >> Uh does anybody have any questions for staff or the applicant at this time? >> Do you have a question for staff? Commissioner Gonzalez? >> Yes. I was going to ask staff a question. the um the drainage area in the uh the I believe it's called the northeast corner there the drainage area is that part of a continuous drainage area from the coming from the east and moving to the west >> the northeast corner or the southeast corner >> northeast that that's up is the semicircle up there is that what you'd call northwest >> that's that's northeast >> okay that's did I say I'm sorry if I didn't get that correct the northwest intersection there that drainage area is coming water is coming from east to west >> uh along the southern property. Yes. >> Okay. So, in other words, that that that fence that fence line does it have a uh at this present time, do you know if it's still used being used as a drainage area or is the water being blocked by that fence wall? >> You do you mean the walls on the property lines? >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Uh my understanding is that there is drainage openings in and culverts in that uh system for it to drain from east to west from the neighborh. >> When you say a culvert is there what size is that covert in there? >> Uh I don't have that information available. >> So it's like a hole in the wall there like the fence line there are gaps under it but there are some uh steel bars that let water go but the gaps are too big and animals come in too. >> Okay. So it is it's free flowing now because the only reason why I even asked that question is because it looks to the to the east of that wall that is you know parallel to the to the uh to the flood area there kind of looks like that water is being stopped at that point and it's not really reaching over into that containment area. >> Yeah, I believe there's two separate uh functions going on there. Um >> yes sir. east of the property, more north of where the drain ement is is actually a retention pond for the R4 townhouse divi subdivision to the north. >> Right. >> And then below that is that drainage flow that goes from east to west. >> And as to your knowledge, it's still operating as it was conceived. >> My understanding, yes. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you, >> Commissioner Joiner. >> Thank you for coming. Um up on the dis a bunch of photos are circulating from I guess some of your neighbors and it appears that um the back is being used for RV storage and um I was wondering that >> yeah so uh I have some friends and they didn't have space they wanted to share with us uh they want to share >> you got a lot of friends >> no at some I just told you we have four friends and they have we we travel together you have four friends and then they referred me saying hey there are some app you can use if you have extra space I said I don't really don't need it but if that helps them but I got the notice on Monday I already told everyone they had to be out so as for the notice everyone will be out so we got the notice on Monday we we did not know that cannot have any parking so >> so so what is your intent uh for the use of this property >> so we want to uh make more green grass area for the kids to play and maybe some tennis space or something to for the kids to >> because right now the space that you do have before the abandonment is not grasped. It's got RVs on it. >> That's one thing. So all those will be gone. We just got the notice on Monday, >> right? >> So everything will be gone. I just have few friends and I'll tell them to leave too. >> Thank you. So I I have a question about that. So was that a code violation then that that you received? >> Yeah, we just received it on Monday. So we cannot have anyone parking so >> Okay. So and maybe a question for you Mr. Curtis. I mean does that basically only get enforced if a neighbor complains um that they are still in fact parking RVs? >> Mr. Chairman, members of the commission. Yeah, if there's a violation as it appears that there there has been um it just goes through the normal process for just like any other code violation to correct u and and sounds to me he's already has a plan for correcting the uh the issue, but it's just a normal code enforcement process that that goes through. >> Okay, great. Thank you. How long does he have to remove? >> Uh, well, you want to ask >> how long would he have to remove them or are they already all gone? >> No, >> these pictures are pretty recent. >> Yeah. No, they we just got it on Monday. The notice was received on Monday. This Monday on like I don't know the date, but we received it on Monday. So, I told them everyone needs to be out by I think >> Well, I have an RV, so I know how hard it is to find storage that's affordable. >> Yeah. very little of it is, but still on a code violation, how long do they have to correct it? >> Um, Mr. Chairman and Commissioner Joiner, um, typically there's a 30-day correction period and again, code enforcement uses their best judgment on on, you know, cooperative uh, compliance and looks like that's where the applicants headed. So, >> thank you. >> Thank you. Because last time the inspector came in to say, "Hey, I don't have a come in. Somebody complained somebody's doing some construction or fixing it, but was coming from the Arabian Park from the back of it." And I told him, "You can go ahead and look." I was very cooperative. We were not doing anything. Somebody just parked and it's not big money. I was just somebody I was just trying to help someone to park because a lot of HOAs, they didn't have space. So that was not an intended to intend to make any money or something. was just trying to help some folks. I know. >> Commissioner Tell, >> following up on that, although I think this is getting far a field of the abandonment, but uh so were you charging your friends for this space? >> So I have uh No, not my friends. There were four people they referred to, >> right? >> That's what they I charge them. Say, "Yeah, if you want to park for a little bit." They're only there for like few months. Okay. So, the code violation was a commercial operation. It wasn't parking RVs per se. It was a matter of making it a commercial operation. Is is that >> correct? >> That that's what we got. The the violation is I cannot be getting paid for it. >> Okay. >> So, that's what I got. >> All right. Thank you. So, those are all good questions. I think we need to refocus back on the >> agendaized item because uh we're we're straying a little bit. Um so okay thank you for that. Um we do have two requests to speak. Uh Mr. Amitage Casera which I believe is you. You've already spoken. Um we've got another pan Singh. >> That's my spouse. I think she's sitting with a kid. So >> Okay. I mean she requested to speak. Does does she want to speak or >> would like to? >> Sorry. >> Okay. Thank you. No, I I I was going to speak, but I think um sorry, my name is Punam Singh. Same address, 11345 East Barrel Avenue, 85259. Um I just want to echo with what Amitesh was saying. It's we started this two plus years ago. I think when we moved in initially, a lot of space in the back. We wanted to build a fence. Um there was trespassing coming in from the back. So, it's really making me uncomfortable when we're My husband's traveling a lot. So really it was that was the intent. Um so I just want to focus on that's it took us two plus years to get where we are for that reason when we what we want to do is follow the permit and get this done so we can build a fence and then have enough space for the kids in the back. So I just want to make sure that that's the focus here. The violation we're abiding by it. We're very cooperative. Um, and we are going to get that done in the timely manner that we got the notice this Monday. So, that's already been actively being addressed today and it's going to be taken care of within that time frame that we've received. So, I just want to make sure that you guys know that we're being cooperative and that we want I want to make sure that our focus is what we wanting to do here is intently for the children of just having that space for the back so we don't have a lot of the uh the wildlife coming in which we've seen a lot. And then just on top of that, we've had folks trespassing in the back as well. So it's not just the wildlife, it is people because when you see on the main road on the 114th Street, there is condos right there. Folks are tending to walk their dogs or walk in the night and they do use that easement to come in the back to see what's what's in the back. Is it another pathway? So there is traffic that is flowing there to the back of our house that comes and we've had folks coming in from our back coming to our entryway without my notice. So that's making it very uneasy for us. So we just wanted to strictly have that block have that space to do that. And I think right now with the easement we have the 114th you see um there are our neighbors have parked cars and um RVs and there's a lot of other parking on that easement on that road to where it leads to our back. There are neighbors that are parking there that are in violation of parking and blocking that space and using that space. So that's a concern because we want to work with the city and like it said on the PowerPoint before that we're willing to pay to get that culde-sac done and have that clear path because right now some neighbors are using that as construction work and cars to have that area blocked as well which is not helping us in what we're trying to accomplish with the city. >> Okay, thank you for that. >> Yeah, you are. Thank you. Um, are there any other questions? Commissioner Gonzalez. >> Um, so staff, there's um the area that is in blue there, the the on the south side, there's no existing fence way there now separating that easement >> there. I believe there is a fence along the southern border of the property. >> What kind of fence is that? Is it a block fence? A rail fence? >> 100% certain. I believe it is a block fence. >> We can ask the applicant. You can you can just tell us what >> So the southern where you see the trees where the drainage is right. >> Yes, there is some metal fans on >> before the eastmen. the the neighbors put some fence before um where the bottom red line is. >> Uhhuh. >> This they put a metal fence there. We haven't put anything. That's why the drainage is open. A lot of animals are coming from the drainage. >> Okay. But then if I guess maybe what um so water can flow through that fence. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. And then what you proposed is a block wall or what are you proposing as far as going there? This is not part of the application but I just wanted to see what type of water. >> So similar fence the water will flow through no changes on water flow. We just want nothing coming in like it's not an easy access any human or animals coming without the permission. That's the intent. >> Okay. Um the other question I guess is for staff. Is there um is that d a drainage issue if they block block that wall there? If they've put a f block fence there. >> Chair young, Commissioner Gonzalez. Um to my knowledge, the flows go from the east to the west. I I don't know what the imp implications of blocking it north or south would be, but from my understanding, it's going to be a screen wall that will allow water to pass through. Okay. So, you haven't seen the application on the fence yet? >> No, we haven't. That wouldn't be submitted usually until after we've gotten the abandonment approved. >> After you did that easement, I understand. Okay. Thank you, sir. >> Now, I have one question. Uh, while we're looking at this image there be below their easement that we're deciding on along that line behind all the other properties. Is that another easement right there? Chair Young, Commissioner Drake, yes, there is an equestrian easement, 15 foot equestrian easement that runs the length of that uh neighborhood to the south for all those horse properties. >> Uh that was pro part of a previous abandonment um decade or so ago to remove their right of way and leaving that equestrian easement for the horse properties. >> Okay. Thank you so much. >> All right. Uh I don't think we have any more questions or comments, so I'll entertain a motion. Chair Young, if I may, uh, make a motion for recommendation for approval to city council for case 6AB 2024 after finding that the proposed abandonment is consistent with and conforms to the adopted general plan. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Could we get a roll call vote, please? >> Chair Young, >> yes. >> Vice Chair Scarro, >> yes. >> Commissioner Gonzalez, >> no. >> Commissioner Hill, >> yes. >> Commissioner Joiner, >> yes. >> Commissioner Drake, >> yes. Motion passes. Thank you. >> All right, we're going to move on to item three and I assume four at the same time. Uh 5 UP 2025 and uh 6 UP 2025 Oldtown Tavern uh for both the bar use and live entertainment. Mr. Stanky, how are you? >> Thank you, Chair Young, Vice Chair Scarbor, and Commissioners. I'm Casey Stanky with Scottsdale Planning Department here for cases 5 UP 2022 and 6 UP 2025. The Oldtown Tavern bar and live entertainment conditional use permits. See the site location here in the heart of Oldtown where Main Street uh intersects with the Civic Center Mall. And a little closer highlighted in yellow is the new site which is just a stones throw from where we are right here in city hall. And this site is zoned C2 commercial with the downtown overlay. Now, for anybody that spent a good amount of time in Oldtown over the past few decades, you may well be aware of Oldtown Tavern, which up until recently, for several decades, occupied uh the area highlighted in yellow. Uh that was back, it actually started that prior to when CUPs were needed for both bars and live entertainment. So, that that area is actually grandfathered out of that. However, the owner is looking to expand his operation into a larger venue just a few feet to the east, the area highlighted in blue. Um, obviously that has no such grandfathered status, and therefore to operate a bar with live entertainment there, uh, he would need two condition use permits, which is what we're here for today. Bear in mind that condition use permits, they're not associated with a business directly. They run with the land in perpetuity. So even though the operation is ostensibly very similar, it's a new site and therefore um requires new use permits. Therefore, the applicant does request that this commission forward a recommendation of adoption of two resolutions for each of those conditional use permits to city council uh at this new location. And here's a look at the floor plan. The building is uh was and still temporarily is m two suites. Uh currently Oldtown Tavern is operating as a restaurant on the suite which is highlighted in red. Um although the game plan is to combine both of these operate one bar for both of them. And the totality of interior space for this is about 4,300 square ft with an additional roughly 800 square ft of patio. And here's some more um data about about the site. uh again going from what's currently a restaurant operation with the the wood with the current owner and also a vacant retail into a bar with live entertainment for the whole 6,000 foot parcel. Um 6,000 feet doesn't sound like a lot of space, but because bars with live entertainment are one of the most intensive uh parking requirements per the zoning ordinance, this would require 58 parking spaces. Obviously in in the downtown area, you have smaller parcels. uh there's not a lot of them with a lot of on-site parking and so or or the ability to reasonably add on-site parking and so a lot of these parking require requirements are met through uh different credits. In this particular case, there's bike credits, but more importantly, this site actually has 15 kind of historic credits. When it was originally built in the 1970s, the Saber brothers contributed money to a parking fund which gave them 15 parking credits to build one of the parking garages. Incidentally, that's not dissimilar to the program we have now, which is inloo parking credits uh which the applicant is also seeking. They are seeking from council 41 inlue parking credits to meet this requirement. That's obviously just for the the technical aspect of the ordinance. Um, even though it doesn't matter for meeting the ordinance requirements from a practicality standpoint, there is a surface parking lot immediately adjacent to this site to the north. Obviously, there's on street parking and there are several public parking garages in the area, including the Brown Avenue garage, which potentially going forward could actually add more spaces. And the city did its standard outreach to um property owners within 750 ft. The owner also did an open house and up until today there were no public comment on this. However, we did receive two public comments which uh should be in front of you or provided to you um when you arrived at this meeting. That's staff presentation. We also have the owner to answer questions um and his representative if you're so inclined. >> Thank you, Mr. Stanky. Uh does the applicant have a presentation or uh want to come up to speak? Good afternoon. My name is Cameron Morgan. I'm a local attorney. I live at 6349 North 78th Street. Uh I represent Oldtown Tavern. And on behalf of the ownership, staff, musicians, and the patrons of Oldtown Tavern, we want to thank you for taking your time to consider our applications. Now, over here is Mr. Mitchell, who owns the place. and um some supporters. Um but I'd like to give you a little bit of a history about Oldtown Tavern so you understand what we're doing, what we're trying to do and uh accomplish here. Uh Oldtown Tavern started off as JW and back in 1985 there was no live entertainment ordinance. JW was a renowned music venue for uh Oldtown at that particular era. Later it was sold to a guy named Bracken and Mr. Mitchell bought it from Mr. Bracken in 2009. He's been operating uh without an entertainment permit because it was grandfathered since that time for 16 years. Uh the issue of whether he needed a entertainment permit came up and was litigated in the Scottsdale City Court in 2012. Uh Mr. Mitchell won that case and the city and uh he have been happy with the results since then. So when the um his lease became came up in October, he had already had made the the made uh provisions to move to the site 30 ft away, which is now called uh Backdoor Lounge. Backdoor has a class 12 liquor license. Oldtown Tavern had a class six. We thought we'd be able to move the class six simply to the to the 12 uh location and that would be fine. It wasn't. The city said no, you can't do that. You can't have two licenses. There was issues with that. So, we agreed with uh planning and zoning that we would get a life permit. we would get a bar license and move the whole uh kaboodleoodle and we would pay for 40 parking places. Um now Oldtown Tavern has a long history. It has been awarded uh it's been given awards by New Times. Uh it is there's all kinds of recorded uh sorry um recording artists love to come there and play. We would like to continue that for the benefit of the locals and the tourists. Um, now there's a issue with respect to noise management. That's a big change in the operation because Oldtown Tavern operated with open doors and outside it was very very small inside but very big outside. Now we have a big inside facility and a smaller outside facility. Uh we're going to comply with the noise ordinance, keep the doors closed, and cut down on the amount of music that is currently that was currently being played at Oldtown Tavern. With respect to the parking, I I think we addressed that. There's a parking lot to the north. Um there's 130 places there. There's not going to be much difference in the parking requirements that we had at Oldtown Tavern next door as what we've got now, except it was going to be a much greater to the establishment. Um the neighborhood area considerations are going to be relatively the same. Uh there's only one uh one resident across the way and they've been happy for 16 years. I don't think uh they're going to anything's going to change with respect to them. Uh folks, I I would request that you go ahead and approve this these two permits or conditional reuse permits and allow a uh sort of an iconic bar, iconic music venue in Scottsdale to continue to operate. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you for that. Um is there any questions or comments from the commission? Yes. Mr. Joiner, >> thank you for your presentation. I do have a question of staff. Um, I think there is a no a noise ordinance coming forth in the future. So, my question is when that noise ordinance comes forward, regardless of what it is, does it apply to everybody that currently has a permit? Is it, in other words, it is, is it retroactive to all the clubs in the area or is it only applicable to new permits? So, Chair Young and Commissioner Joiner. Um, so it depends on the applicability section of the of the noise ordinance, but um typically um it would apply to activities from the date of the new ordinance going forward. >> So, it really it really is about the behavior of the activi and the activity. Um unless um you know Mr. Padilla has uh more information. Um it is something that the planning commission has um inquired about in the past and um I would keep tabs on the uh city council's agenda because I know it's still an item that's on uh their list of things to do. And so I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a a work study session on an upcoming council agenda regarding the noise ordinance. But typically it's about the behavior. It's not a zoning code. It's really a nuisance code. And so it's typically the behavior of the time uh for the violation. >> But my question was is will it equally apply to everybody that has a permit already? In other words, it'll be retroactive if it was something that this and other bars operating in the area weren't doing. would they have to comply with the new ordinance? >> So again, um, Mr. Chairman and Commissioner Joiner, they're still drafting it. I don't know about the retroactivity. >> Okay. >> Um, I just know that typically nuisance ordinances um when they're uh if there is a nuisance that violates the ordinance, there's typically a violation at that time. I don't know if somebody's behavior can be grandfathered, so to speak. Okay. >> Um, but it's all uh those are good questions. It's all about the applicability and the language in the uh new ordinance in terms of what um what how it would be applied for existing um activity or behavior. >> Thank you. Well, I've heard nothing but good things about this establishment, but I just want to know I know what's coming down the pike. So, I just wanted to make sure. Thank you. That's all. >> Thank you. Are there any other questions? Commissioner Gonzalez, >> um I'd like this staff to basically explain to me a little bit more about the parking. That's my main concern because of that north parking lot that is going to be utilized. How how is the 40 spaces being obtained uh for the usage of this for this bar? Cherry on commissioner Gonzalez. So the inloop program is a mechanism through which the city has a a fund general fund a parking fund and the idea is uh for small downtown parcels if you can't get the parking you can pay us a monthly fee and we will put it into a fund to do stuff like build garages or build on street parking. There is no dedicated stall or location that's attributed to this owner. It's just a financial transaction for a conceptual, you know, mechanism to handle parking in the future or current in this case since we're working on some parking structures. >> If I may add, Commissioner Gonzalez, there's public parking to the north as well as the parking structure to the south of this site and then uh the on street parking to the u to the west and then of course not too far away is the parking lot surrounding city hall. May I address the council? >> Of course. >> Uh, with respect to the parking, it appears based on the calculations under the ordinance that we're going to have to pay for 41 places at 150 a month, about 6,6500 a month. It'll it really helped the city in completing the parking garages that is currently got planned. >> Okay. I guess >> I guess mainly my question brought forward to is because I know that parking lot pretty well and during different venues that parking lot's always pretty full but uh as staff has presented that there's other parking venues that could be utilized at that time. So I I see the the the the the problem with being that is it's not your problem, it's everybody's problem that it's an overparked area and everything everybody has to kind of walk in from different areas. The other problem I I probably see on this is that um are there going to be outside speakers on the patio? >> We've agreed not to put them out. >> Okay. So the basically and you're going to keep the doors closed summer and wintertime. So there's abs there's not going to be any real noise coming into the patio from the interior of the the showrooms, the two showrooms, I believe. >> Yes, that's correct. Um we're going to keep the doors closed. Of course, in the summertime it's important for the air conditioning, but also for the noise. And um the doors will come open for for you know staff going in and out to serve patrons but other than that I don't there shouldn't be any serious noise issues. >> Okay. So it's it's not going to be like the operation you had prior to this >> application. It will not >> um although that was kind of a fun operation by the way. >> It was noisy but you know we don't have to worry about that. That's not your problem now. So, in any case, then if the if the patio is is a smaller footprint of your area, then the overall square footage is what did you say? 6600 square feet, something like that. >> No, it's about 5,000 inside and about 800 outside. >> Okay. To total it's about 6,000. Okay. Then you have then I assume that uh uh fire is already passed the occupancy and and your ratings and everything like that and there's hasn't been any issues. hasn't given us a new occupancy for the second side yet. >> I see. Okay. Very good. Well, thank you, sir. >> Thank you. >> More comment. >> So, Oh, sir, I I have one more question. >> Just wondering, would you agree that this new location it will be quieter than what you had before? >> I believe so. >> New location. >> Yes, I believe it will be significantly quieter. Okay, that's that's what I wanted to know. Thank you, >> Commissioner Artell. >> Question for staff. Um, when was the parking ordinance passed? You recall? I believe I was on transportation commission at the time and that goes back a few years. I don't think it's been uh revised since then. Do you have any recollection of when that parking or >> Mr. Chairman Chrisell and there's been various changes to the parking code as you kind of referenced um but the inloo parking provision has been in the code for over 20 years. Um it the most recent update made a slight change at one point previously in L parking would allow um property owners to purchase as an asset permanent credits. Um, and that had changed at the last goound to just do monthly lease for the credits. >> Okay. The reason I asked was because back when I was on transportation commission, um, that was before Uber and Whimo basically. I mean, know they were there, but they weren't all that popular. And I realized we got to comply with what the law says. You got to have these parking spaces one way or the other. Some could say, "Well, if you're just paying money, uh you're not creating any parking spaces or at least any that are close by." But, you know, the reality is that um uh you know, life has changed. We have Whimo, we have Uber. That's how a lot of people get to these uh to these bars anymore. Um, so you got to do the parking, which is what you're doing, but it doesn't have to be right next door. Um, you know, if it complies, it complies, but I don't think we should worry about do we have enough parking because Whimo, >> good point. >> Thank you, Chair or Commissioner. Um, are we all good on questions? Okay. Um, as far as the parking, you know, I I'm not overly concerned about it. I I in my opinion, I think there's a fair amount of parking in the area. Um, I've been to the old one and the new one, and I've never had a hard time finding a parking spot. Um, and quite honestly, I think it's good to encourage ride share, especially with an establishment like this and keeping people off the road if they've had a little too much. We don't want them really to be driving their cars here. Um, so, um, you know, with with that said, I I I I don't think that's going to be a real concern to me. Uh, so is there any further discussion or a motion? Oh, wait. That's not That's for a different case. >> Sorry. You're looking for a motion. >> Yeah. I thought we had a speaker for this one. Uh, but we don't. >> Okay. Um, let's see. I'm going to get the wrong got to put these two together. Well, this is why I don't volunteer. We got to put two of them together. So, I'll just read each one. Make a motion for the recommendation of approval to city council for case 5 UP 2025 and case 6 UP 2025. after finding that the uh CUP criteria have been met and that the proposed conditional use permit is consistent with and conforms with the adopted general plan per the attached stipulations. >> Okay. >> Second. >> We got a motion and a second. Uh roll call vote, please. >> Chair Young, >> yes. >> Vice Chair Scarro, >> yes. >> Commissioner Gonzalez, >> yes. >> Commissioner, >> yes. >> Commissioner Joiner, >> yes. >> Commissioner Drake, >> yes. >> Motion passes. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you sir. >> Thank you very much ladies and gentlemen. >> Uh one last case item number five 7UP 2025 Alpios at Trun Event Center CUP. Chair Young, Vice Chair Scarboro, members of the planning commission. My name is Chris Zimmer. I'm a senior planner here with the city of Scottsdale's planning department and I'm here to present to you 7UP 2025 LBO at trun event center for barcup. Um here's the site approximately located just due west of the intersection of Joeax and Alma school. Here's a close-up detailed aerial of the specific building site. Um just to note there are no physical changes with this uh request. It is physically just for the use of the bar permit. Uh the existing zoning surrounding the parcel is C2 which again uh bar would be permitted with a conditional use permit uh request. Uh the action requested is uh for an owner a request by the owner for a conditional use permit for a bar to be located at uh 10452 East Joeax Road uh with central business environmentally sensitive lands overlay. Um some history um there are correspondents in front of you right now that do talk about live entertainment. Originally during the preapp we did uh consider a live entertainment portion to this request but that has ultimately been withdrawn and so live entertainment is not a portion of this request. It is strictly just for the cup for the bar. Um that ends that ends staff's presentation. The applicant is here uh if you guys do have any questions. Thank you. >> Great. Thank you, Mr. Zimmer. Uh does the applicant uh would they like to come up to speak? Hello, my name is Terry Berga Tree Bosser. I'm the manager of LPOMS at Trun and the event coordinator. >> Okay. Um, are there any questions for staff or the applicant? Commissioner Gonzalez, >> do you want Do you want do you do you want questions now or do you want to wait till anybody has something to say as far as public comments? >> Well, I mean we can wait till after >> you want to do it all at the same time. Okay. All right. Uh doesn't sound like you have a presentation. You just wanted to introduce yourself. >> Um yeah, I did have a threem minute presentation. >> Yeah, by me all means. >> Should I get that and read it? >> Sure. Yeah. Okay, I already introduced myself as manager event coordinator at Alpio Zatrun and I am requesting approval for conditional use permit for bar service that is accessory to a private event center operating by reservation only with no walk-in or public bar, no regular business hours and no live entertainment. Albios at Trune functions exclusively as a pre-book private event venue. Events include corporate gatherings, nonprofit fundraisers, and private celebrations. Alcohol is provided only to invited guests attending these private events and not primary use of space. Excuse me. The request before you today does not involve an expansion of the building, an increase in square footage, occupancy, or a train change in the approved layout. This cup simply allows bar service as an accessory use consistent with small private event venues operating under Scottsdale's zoning ordinance. There's no walk-in customers, no bar hours, no nightclub activity. Alcohol service is controlled by licensed servers and ends in in accordance with event schedules and city requirements. The property is located within existing commercial complexes in and is incompatible with surrounding business. Events are scheduled in advance to minimize overlap when possible. All events are indoors with no outside bar service and operations are managed to minimize noise and traffic impacts. Parking has been carefully analyzed based on the approved square footage and proposed bar use in accordance with the Scottsdale zoning ordinance. This application demonstrates that parking demand be accommodated through existing parking resources and approved alternatives. I'd like to clearly state that I accept and agree to comply with all staff recommendations, conditions of approval. No future expansion or deviation is requested beyond what is before you today. Thank you for your time and I respectly ask for your support and happy to answer any questions. >> Great. Thank you. Uh Commissioner Joiner, she has a question for you. >> Thank you for your presentation. I must admit I've been to your facility numerous times. It's beautiful. But I have a question. I I have heard a couple little rumblings about some parking issues when the farmers market is there. >> So, and one of them said that literally the streets are blocked. So, do h how do you handle that if you're going to have an event or do you just not schedule when that farmers market's going to be there? >> Yeah, so farmers market's there every Saturday. So we also have cars and copy. We had to move that to Sunday to allow for the parking and the conflict. My events are very sporadic. They, you know, maybe I do 20 a year. Last year about 20 and it was a good year, right? >> So I've analyzed, I've taken pictures. When um the businesses are open, there's, you know, kind of come and go. There's only one business open at night and most of my events are in the evening to afternoon afternoon to evening. So Saturdays are popular Fridays, but I've analyzed with the grill being open, the restaurant, there's still a lot of parking because nobody else is open. All those businesses are closed on Sundays are closed. I've never seen a parking issue. Yeah, I actually drove it today and I I have to admit I wasn't aware that you had all that parking behind your building. >> So, there's quite a bit and there was was not one car parked there. So, >> yeah. Yeah, it's it's a ghost town. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um do you want to go ahead and ask your question or do you I'm sorry. I probably should have waited until after we did. >> Okay. We we do have one. Um Thank you. You could sit down. We're going to have another speaker come up. Um, we we do have one uh speaker request here, Mr. Tim Loda. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the commission. Tim Lota, 2198 East Camelback Road, and I'm here representing Howard Lean, who's in the audience today. Uh but I did want to mention that um actually the there are six total owners at the villages at Pinnacle Peak and um five of the six of them have submitted a letter. Can I have the Elmo? Uh I don't know how it didn't end up in the packet but this was submitted in July and uh all five of them other than Alpios of course is in opposition to this conditional use permit. Um, and I'll get into some of the reasons, but there it is. There's four because one of the persons owns two of the six units. Um, I I guess sort of the it was kind of interesting how the the previous presentation was with regard to Oldtown Tavern. And it's hard to imagine a a sort of more of a contrast than um than this AC application because this application is is way out in North Scottsdale obviously and um it's it's an area um where already there's limited retail. I think one of the big concerns is that what limited retail there is will be cannibalized by this use and what it does to the parking. So, what is And by the way, um, if I could have that a little bit more clear, this is the occupancy we're talking about here. Um, 182 bottom, 62 top. We're obviously talking about some really big events that are possible in this uh in this facility. And that's that's one of the things that that makes my client very nervous and urges you to oppose this. Um, we heard uh the applicant talk about a lot of things before, none of which are in any stipulations that I can see other than I did see one there's going to be no live music. But she talks about uh well, we're not going to do this and we're not going to do that. I mean, the bottom line here is once this permit is secured, there are a lot of things she can do. uh and um just relying on on her good word that she's not going to do them uh is something that is unacceptable uh to my client and I hope is unacceptable to you especially since this use uh these uses are governed by restrictive covenants and uh this use would violate those restrictive covenants. my client intends to enforce those. But and I know that's you would say, well, that's not our business. That's a matter of private contract and and that's true. Uh but when we have a presentation, which is is is almost completely, trust me, uh I think that does kind of enter into our thinking anyway. So any so that's 244 um total occupants. what it's what is allowed um in terms of and I also wanted to talk about the actual application which is um very small print but there's very little actually uh very little information that's actually in the application itself. This is attachment three to the staff report. It's hard to read, but I would note that the uh under the Scottsdale City Code, the the zoning ordinance, the applicant bears the burden of demonstrating compliance with the conditional use permit criteria. So, what do we have for number one? A this is A1. Uh conditional use will not be >> Mr. Mr. Lod, I just want to interrupt you real quick. I think something was going on with our timer here and you're almost at your three minutes, so if you could maybe wrap it up for us. >> Okay. Um, it says, well, I was just paying attention to that and it says I still have time, but okay, I'll wrap it up. Um, I mean, frankly, I don't need much time because the applicant uh put very little um in terms of actual pen to paper and uh but you know, bottom line is she says, "Well, don't worry. I'm going to comply with all Scottsdale City codes and ordinances." Well, she has to do that anyway. Uh that's that's very little insurance. Um, obviously traffic, I I think people have heard about that. Parking our big concerns. This is a dark sky area. There's nowhere to park around here. It's not like the Oldtown Tavern where we heard about this lots over here and that lots over there. There's nothing here. Nothing. Other than the actual parking that we have, which we think is inadequate for the types of events that this venue could accommodate if you approve the conditional use permit. I urge you to vote no in terms of your recommendation to city council. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Lot. Um, Commissioner Joiner, I think you had a question for the speaker. >> Mr. Lota, could I have you come back up, please? I'm sorry. >> Yeah. You know what? Let's let the applicant uh respond. >> I I just have one question. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Mr. Lotto, are there not already two other restaurants and bars in that area? >> Uh, Mr. Chairman, uh uh Madame Commissioner, there there's one there's one restaurant. It does have a bar and I think there's another restaurant opening. Yes. >> Um so, but this does this isn't a restaurant. This is a this is this is a um >> uh this is a a use permit for a bar. I mean, it could they don't they don't need a restaurant um to go with it with the with what the applicant is proposing, but there are there would be two two total restaurants once the other one is is uh open again. And um there were two last time I was up there were two. Now there's only one. So, and there's a gym, not to mention nine other uh businesses or 10 other businesses. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Would the applicant like to come up and respond to any of those comments? Yeah, as far as the bar, it it sounds like it's kind of a negative thing, but really I'm a private event center. I have all my bar certifications. I'm actually I brought packets with all that in there if somebody wants to take a look at it. I've done my due diligence to make sure I'm protecting the public, the patrons, our guests, and it's not like I'm running a bar full-time. I'm doing this just to be in compliance and to, you know, have these events people can come and enjoy. Sure, alcohol is kind of a main thing. they want to enjoy it with their friends. So, as far as, you know, all my credentials, everything that I've secured to do this and continue, I have liquor liability. I've got um I'm actually um certified special event contractor for State of Arizona Liquor Board. I've got my food handlers because I'm doing um catering. And so, you know, I'm just trying to have a nice center for people to come and enjoy like Miss Joiner said that she's been there. It's a fun place. I hold a lot of political events and the new owner, he was going to be here tonight, but he's actually there entertaining friends. So, um, yeah, you know, just I'm not doing anything that I haven't done for the last years. I've never had any complaints. Um, people love to come there and the neighbors. I' I've had two open houses. I've had people in the surrounding areas come, some city officials, and asked them, you know, even if I had live entertainment, which I have not applied for that, but they said, you know, we'd never hear any noise coming from Malios. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, do we have any questions, Commissioner Gonzalez? >> Yes. For the applicant, um, first of all, do do you have any idea of opening hours of when you would be doing these events? >> I I usually run it on average our hours or it it could be like a late morning time to 11 12 o'clock at the latest we've been there and nobody's even open in the area and all my events are inside. If I do something outside, then I apply with the city special event permits. Um, if I have any vendors or, you know, things that are outside, cars and coffee, we we have permits for that. But my hours are basically everybody wants to have a party around four or five o'clock till 9 and, you know, kind of a quiet area up there. So, a lot of my clientele are older people. They're not very many young partying people. So, >> I'm glad. >> Um, I understand. Thank you. What I guess maybe the the events that I've been to and into that area and stuff like that seems like you have a lot of outside part of the venue. >> Is that is that typical for you outside the the building constraints in the not in the parking lots, but in your perimeter of your of your uh of the sidewalk and everything? Do you have a lot of outside participation? >> No. No. Only if I do, then I apply with the city for this special event permit. And there's times I've had things I did have a very small car show um during car week here, uh corporate event, and because it was just a one-hour event, I applied and they said, "No, you don't need it if there's going to be music outside, anything like that." But nobody's allowed to leave the building with, you know, any alcohol. Um, I strictly monitored that. >> So, and and then when you did that event, where where do you think most of the people parked at that time period? Because it was pretty full. >> Yeah. And that was um we had a early morning corporate lunch and then there was a break for a couple of hours. Then 4 to 5 was the car show. I just block off in front of the building and across the way because the restaurant's not open yet. So I had x amount of nice exotic cars, hot rods and stuff. And um so I block it off like some of the other people during far farmers market. They're blocking off spaces because it's coming in and encroaching on their their parking. But I have never had a parking issue and I've done this for over eight years. >> Yes. Um, and you um I I believe is the on the road opposite of of your side of let's say you're on the of of the roadway. You're on the south side. Am I correct on that? >> So on the north side, I noticed that there was a lot of parking up and down that area. Is that a parking or a no parking zone >> on on the street on East Joeax? >> Yes. off the street onto that dirt easement there. >> Yeah, it's never been any any of our vehicles, any of our patrons. And like I said, the the businesses are never open when I have my events. >> Okay. >> Even the grill, I monitored that strictly. And >> I was talking more about the on the other side of the the other side of the roadway. >> Oh, the roadway out there. No, no one parks on the street. Farmers market time. Yeah. people are parking there because of there's not enough um I was just there on Saturday and it and plus you know they blocked off areas where you can't even get an emergency vehicle coming in and around but when I have my events I never have an issue and parking on the street is she I guess just recently acquired some parking in a vacant lot across the street maybe that'll help but my or 40 50 people. Maybe I'll get 125 at the most. >> What's your occup occupancy in that building right now at as it stands? >> What >> the occupancy the fire marshals occ? >> Yes. So, I have an occupancy load. Um I was asked by the city um city of Scottsdale Marshall um fire marshall. I was asked to well they came out they they ran the numbers gave me 180 downstairs 60 upstairs nothing happened I called they said no they're not comfortable right now because I'm going through this uh permit so they asked me to hire an architect I hired the architect he came out he had the same numbers um that's in my application and I would like to get my placard on the wall I've been waiting to get through this so I can get that up and but yeah. >> So, how many how many total did you come up with? >> 182 downstairs and 60. I have two mezzanineas up top. One's a game room, one's a lounge. So, he gave me 60 up up in those total. >> So, 180 and and plus 60. >> Yeah, 60 up for the two. >> 240. Is that the number you came up with? >> But yeah, I I get requests for 200 and I know that's that's too much. And it depends on the assembly. So that's based on assembly. So I have movable chairs, tables. I have a couple of nice cars in there right now that I can pull them out and when I set up my buffet tables and stuff, I I need the room. So yeah, we don't want to overcrowd. >> Okay. Thank you very much. I'd like to ask Tim some questions if I don't want Thank you very much. So, Mr. um giving you a little bit more time right now to basically just reply as far as what I was asking on the occupancy and things of that nature. Do you see a problem with that? >> Uh Mr. Chair, Commissioner Gonzalez. Yes. I mean, that that's the reason I'm here. That's the reason Mr. Lean's here. It it And again, we hear um we hear sort of these all these things that that are not in the application, are not in stipulation. They're nowhere. And and the applicant talks about corporate lunches. Oh, but I'm only open at night. I mean, it's and it's not even if she weren't doing that, which she she said she is, but it's not what she's doing just it's what she could do. So, and she's corporate lunches are obviously not at night. Um, the farmers market is a happens to be a compatible use because it's Saturday morning. This one is not confined like that at all. It she didn't say anything. Oh, we're gonna only going to have this on Saturday nights. Um and that is the the issue and you heard the applicant herself talk about the very high occupancy levels. So uh that is her in terms of all this stuff she says is not her ceiling. Her ceiling is is right there on paper. The one I showed you 244. >> Yes. And then um I guess do you know how many spaces or total in that in that area? Do you do you know the the parking spots? How many sparking spots are in that >> uh center? >> Uh Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Gonzalez, the number I have is 192. I think the staff report says it's close but has a little few more but is I think it's our count is 192. >> Very good. Thank you, sir. >> All right. Uh any other questions, comments? I just I had one question for the applicant, but it would just be really quick if you wanted to come back up there or you could give me an affirmative, but uh yeah, the question was is uh do you have any events outside in the parking lot in the evening or at night time? I have and I, you know, like I said before, anytime I'm outside of my doors, I apply with the city of Scottsdale. I have a very good working relationship with them and I put in my application. Just went through the training on the new system. And so I let them know this is what I'm doing. It's pretty detailed. And if they say no, you know what? You don't need it. I just go off of that like the car show. But yeah, definitely if I have um any vendors, any music outside. Um good example, cars and coffee. We have people parking all over, they're looking at cars, coming in getting coffee, donut holes, walking around. I have a solo guitarist playing. So that requires because that's an outdoor activity that requires the permit. >> Does that happen in the evening at nighttime? I'm just curious. We've never had Cars and Coffee, but if I do have a evening event, anything outside, um, which rarely my events are outside, but if they do, I I apply because I don't want to be in a situation. And >> And then how long how late do those potentially go to? >> Um, if I had an outdoor event, maybe nine. Yeah, most of my events end pretty early. >> Okay. Well, thank you so much. >> Sure. Actually, I have a question for the applicant as well. Uh, when you have some of these larger events, do you use a valet >> service? A what? >> Valet service? >> We have. Yeah. Many people like to bus up there. So, I actually have a friend that he does that. And um, a lot of times they get their own hotels, four seasons up the street. They they can bus people in. And we prefer I I prefer it especially if they're having some cocktails that you know they have a good safe ride home and um but I do have lots of resources. I have vendor lists that have all that on there. >> Um >> it's a little bit of a drive too. So some to carpool. >> So which building in relationship to the one where it says site is the restaurant use? Yeah, the restaurant is down below on the far side >> the bottom left >> side. Yeah. >> Okay. So, if you're having a big event, I mean I mean the whole site is kind of self-parked so you could park where wherever you want uh if they wanted to come to your venue. public parking and the grill. Most of them park around their building and then I have an area between the other building on on the right there and then um and then between my building. So, they park in there, but I have all that parking all the way back. >> Okay. So, I I'm assuming then if that's the only restaurant use that's in there, there's no reserved parking spaces for that specific use. So, their their patrons don't have to park all the way at the north end and then walk all the way down. Yeah, exactly. >> Okay. All right. Um, Commissioner Tell, >> question for staff. Have you looked at the parking on this project? >> Chair Young, uh, Commissioner Ortell, yes, we have verified the parking is adequate for the code. >> So, you're satisfied with it. You did your analysis, >> correct? Currently from what the site plan proposes is 198 stalls and there's 204 on site. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Are there any other questions, comments? >> All right, Mr. Joiner. >> I can make a motion, please. Um, I'm I make a motion for recommendation of approval to city council for case 7 UP 2025 after finding that the CUP criteria have been met and the proposed conditional use permit is consistent and conforms with the adopted general plan per the attached stipulations. >> Second. >> That was a tie. Who are we going to give it to? Uh, all right. All right, we got a motion in a second. Sorry. >> Um, Mr. Curtis, >> we've got a motion, a second. I think we ought to vote on that, right? >> Yeah. I'm sorry, Mr. I didn't even hear the question. >> Uh, Commissioner Gonzalez asked if there's still an opportunity for him to make comment, but since we've got a motion and a second on the table, I believe that we've got a vote on that. There's there's still an opportunity to make a comment. Okay. After this, all right. Before you vote. >> Great. Okay. Commissioner Gonzalez. >> I guess maybe the comment I was going to make was that I believe in the applicants that what she says is what she believes to be true. Unfortunately, the the u I believe in this case the the application runs with the uh the ownership of of the uh of the property. Am I correct on that, >> Mr. Chairman and Commissioner Gonzalez, the uh condition use permits run with the land regardless of the ownership? >> Right. So, it continues on. So, if we make a decision tonight, that's it. That's the way it goes. No matter who or what owns it, it goes with the land. Mr. Chairman and Commissioner Gonzalez, you're making a recommendation to the city council that will make a the final decision. >> Okay. But basically, it it goes with the ownership of the land, not with the applicant. Is that correct or incorrect? >> It runs with the property regardless of ownership. Correct. >> Right. Very good. So I guess mainly mainly what Okay. Yes, sir. >> Let me just clear something up. Uh chair, members of the commission. >> While conditional use permits do run with the land, they're not permanent in that they're subject to revocation if there is not in compliance with the conditions of the conditional use permits. So it wouldn't be correct to say that once you uh award a conditional use permit that it can never be revoked or taken away or modified. if that's kind of your concern. Uh I just want to clear that up. >> Yes, sir. Thank you very much. Then I guess maybe what my other concern would be that um if if a new owner or another um application comes forward, then would that be a new application as far as what what they want to do with these hours and and things of that nature? So, uh, yeah, Mr. Chairman and Commissioner Gonzalez, uh, a new operator could come in and operate a bar. Uh, it could be operated differently. I mean, typically what happens is, um, from a liquor license standpoint, and that's what mostly this is. They want a series 6 bar liquor license from the state, and our code requires a condition use permit for that type of license. So, um, a new operator would transfer a series 6 to this location and operate as a bar. Um, and they could operate it differently if that's your point. >> So, so basically, I guess maybe what I'm also going to lead up to is the the opening and and closing hours of this uh establishment does not have to be fixed then. >> So, u, Mr. Chairman and and Commissioner Gonzalez. Um we haven't recommended um hours to be fixed. Uh the applicant hasn't suggested hours to be fixed. Um typically hours of operation are generally fixed with live entertainment and not so much with bars. Um typically, but it it certainly could be something that could be discussed >> because this is a private is this a is this a private event venue? So yeah, Mr. Chairman and Commissioner Gonzalez, as described to us, it's a private event venue, but it doesn't always have to be a private event venue, if that's what your point is. >> I understand. Well, what I'm trying to get back at is the the the liquor law as far as the closing time and everything. They have to close up at 1:00 or can they keep going on after 1:00 a.m.? So, um, again, planning commission, the liquor law allows liquor sales to two in the morning. >> Yes, sir. I'm sorry. >> Um, and so there's, um, there's no obligation for the applicant to notify the state if they change their hours. Um, but that's what the law allows. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. We have a motion and a second. can um unless there's any further comment or questions. Um >> you look at me like you expect one. So, okay. >> Well, you just you'd like to say your peace. >> My usual my usual three three steps. Aesthetics. It's a goodlooking place. It's it's it's fun to go there. Um amenities, as was pointed out, it's a venue center. There aren't a lot of venue centers that size in that area. So, it's it's a good amenity for the area. Economics, you know, we've already heard that it's going to bring in people uh that are going to be staying in hotels. It's going to make money for the city. It's going to make money for the uh vendors. So, you all three things. Check all three boxes. That's my comment. >> All right. I think we're ready for a vote now. Chair Young, >> yes. >> Vice Chair Scar Bro, >> yes. >> Commissioner Gonzalez, >> I find the application kind of lacking a little bit on information. Therefore, I'm going to vote no. >> Commissioner, >> yes. >> Commissioner Joiner, >> yes. >> Commissioner Drake, >> yes. >> Motion passes. Thank you. >> Uh, thank you everybody. Um, looks like we're at the end of the meeting. I'll take a motion for adjournment. So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I thank you everybody.