All right, welcome everybody to the February 25th, 2026 City Vina Planning Commission meeting. How's everyone doing? >> Good. I saw some thumbs up, smiles. We're feeling good. Well, I say it every time. really appreciate all of you who are here whether it's in person or tuning in remotely. It's your participation, your curiosity, your feedback that is vital to this process as we navigate change together here in Edina specifically regarding regarding the ways in which we like to use our land. So the best way to participate if you aren't here and in advance of the meetings is through our city's engagement website which is ww.etto togetherina.org. That is where you can find the latest of any planning and land use related developments, proposals, past proposals. There's a nice little map and a feature. uh anything that you or others have shared uh we review that on there and we commit to you that we consider that feedback before we make a decision tonight uh for approval or denial. And on that note, we have one public hearing tonight and we have one other item of business we'll get into. Uh for those who'd like to participate in the public hearing, uh I will give a rundown of that process. So, just sit tight. Once we get closer to that, uh, as for what to expect, I'll just give you a rundown of the agenda. So, we will call the meeting to order followed by roll call. We have the approval of the meeting agenda and the prior meetings minutes. Then, we have community comment period, followed by the one public hearing. And we have no reports and recommendations for tonight. And then we wrap it up with chair, member, and staff comments. And last but not least, adjournment. All right, without further ado, call the meeting to order. And then roll call. Commissioner Felt >> here. Commissioner Bournestein >> here. >> Commissioner Day >> here. >> Commissioner Just >> here. >> Commissioner Jaw >> here. >> Commissioner Smith >> here. Commissioner Alky >> here. >> Commissioner Nelson >> here. >> Commissioner Padilla >> here. >> Chair Bennett >> here. >> Cool. I think this is the first time we've had a fellow commissioner tuning in remotely. So, we're trying to make it easier for some of us to participate as well as you to participate. So, we'll see how it goes. Thank you, Commissioner Padilla, for tuning in. Thumbs up. Nice. All right. Next we have the approval of tonight's agenda. Welcome a motion if there is one. >> So moved. >> I'll move. >> Second. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> So moved. Next we have the approval of the prior meeting minutes from January 14th. >> The minutes. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. I >> I >> so moved. Next we have community. >> Hold on a sec. >> Yeah. >> I guess looking at the agenda. Yeah. So when do we want to do the first item of business because that was just tucked into the approval of the agenda. >> It is. I couldn't figure out where else to put it. So >> do we want to do it after? >> I think we should do it now. >> Okay. >> Yeah. That was the intent is to do it at at the front of the meeting. >> Okay. So the one item of business that we do is the annual election of officers. Most of the time this is just to simply recommmit the various roles besides just the commissioners, myself and a vice chair and I think technically a secretary. >> Yes. >> So uh just some context for you as as for what to expect here. So, first and foremost, um our position is a volunteer position. We are appointed by the city council. We're a nine-member commission with a variety of backgrounds and experience and passions. Uh the city of Edina allows us to serve a three-year term and three of those terms if we'd like to. Uh some other cities do a lot less. Say Hopkins is two two-year terms. So the commitment here can be pretty extensive. Uh and so this is the time at which we usually have some overlap of terms ending. So either we have new people joining at the next meeting and uh some familiar faces that we will no longer see that are finishing up their terms. So uh tonight's one of those. We have Commissioner Bournestein who is finishing up his first and only term and he's saying goodbye to the planning commission and we just want to extend a deep amount of gratitude to what you've brought to the commission over the last three years and to put you on the spot if there's anything you'd like to say otherwise just a huge >> I was going to wait till I was going to wait till uh chair member comments which I usually don't have so I thought I'd have one tonight but I guess I won't have one tonight either. [laughter] Um, no, it's it's been a privilege. It's been a privilege to serve the city of Edina. I wanted to obviously thank the fellow commissioners. Um, thank the council for appointing me. It's been it's been a really great, interesting, um, awesome experience. And then the staff for being amazing and prepared, so helpful every single time. Um, [clears throat] I my I I finished my term, I served it out. Um, I didn't think that I could complete another three years, and I like to keep my commitments. So, instead of starting another one and then stopping halfway through, I thought now at the end of a full term was probably a better time. Um, but yeah, I'll be I'll be watching online or from the audience and maybe showing up to a meeting or two. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for your appreciate it, >> Jimmy. >> But I I'm also the secretary. So, for that reason, someone else is going to need to step forward. >> So, so on that note, we have quite a number of selection here tonight. So, some context for myself. I I've served on the planning commission now for 10 years. So, you're like, how do you how does that happen? Well, I filled a vacated term about 3 months in. Someone moved. And so, I've been a chair. I've been the chair for the last three years. And while I'd be interested in serving out my remaining two years as chair, I found myself lost in thought and thought it'd be a better opportunity to provide a nicer transition where I could step back from the chair role, still participate for the next two years and allow someone else to transition and kind of provide some of that past chair type of insight, especially as we roll into the next dennial comprehensive plan update, which I was here when We started and finished that with Carrie 10 years ago. So, it's been a while. So, we've talked about this. So, it shouldn't be much of a surprise to those who've been tuning in. I've shared my intent to do this. Got interest uh for the next chair as well as a vice chair. I don't know if we talked about a secretary. Um, but last we spoke, uh, there was kind of some agreement and at least interest from Commissioner Elky to step into the role and then Commissioner Smith to serve as the vice chair. And I guess I' I'd allow you guys the opportunity too to speak because this is this goes to a vote. So, it'd be nice if we have clarity before we go into the vote if we all feel good about who serves it as to what and if anything's changed. Yeah, if you can start. >> Uh, yeah. When we talked about this, was it a year ago or whenever we had the current organization where I was where I became vice chair, >> I think the the message that I had was that it's something that I'm really interested in and I have the time and I'd be delighted to serve as chair, but of course it's an elective process, so that's all up to the rest of us. But I'm still very much interested in doing it. Yeah, you know, same same with me. Certainly like this kind of work. Um, love working on projects and trying to create new policy, new ideas for the city. And so, uh, still very interested in the vice chair position. Um, yeah, I'm excited to be here and really sad that you're leaving honestly. Uh, just some really good feedback and some good engagement that that we've had over the years. So appreciate all your work. Commissioner >> Barnstein group um that in in a positive way. So thanks for your words. I agree with them. And this this group in particular I think has actually made meaningful progress for the city. So so stuff people can feel good about. Does anyone else want to share any or express any intent to serve in an additional capacity like this? Or are we feeling good with a potential nomination for chair? I guess I would then nominate Commissioner Elkire to serve as chair of the planning commission. >> Second. And then all in favor say I. I. >> I. Oppose. >> All right. Motion carries. Congratulations and we're happy to see you serve. We know you'll do a great job. >> Appreciate. >> And then next uh I' I'd nominate Commissioner Smith to serve as vice chair. >> Second. >> All those in favor say I. I. >> I. Opposed. So moved. Congratulations. And then next, I don't think we've discussed it, but since Commissioner Bournestine's rolling out, we do need to fulfill the role of a secretary. And maybe to jump in, you had the same question. What does that mean? It means a very occasional signature. >> I think I signed one document or two. Maybe >> you're qualified. >> But but we need someone. So, anyone that is interested to just anyone buler, >> I can secret I can throw my name in as secretary to sign a paper or two every once in a while. >> All right. Well, I' I'd like to nominate Commissioner Day as secretary. >> Second. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. >> All right. So moved. We have a secretary. Well, thank you all for your commitment. As I said, and as most people who are tuning in, uh, see this is quite a commitment. It's bimonthly meetings throughout the year. A little context to what Commissioner Borenstein said about we made a lot of progress. So, what you typically see is one hat we wear, which is where we apply the law. The other hat we wear is making the law. So, we're quasi judicial body in that regard. And we do that by we have a annual work plan with a bunch of items that the council as well as us as well as you kind of provide us insight with like where you'd like to see change. One example is we got an accessory dwelling unit ordinance created and passed in the last couple years. Uh so we do that and then every 10 years this is the body that kind of champions the comprehensive plan update and the comprehensive plan is all guidance long-term vision for the city is packed into that everything looks to that any of the decisions we make where there's discretion involved we look at the code and then we also refer to our comprehensive plan and the documents within it to guide us toward the better, brighter future that Edina and its residents want to see. So there's a little context for you kind of provide that every year as we um commit to more terms and then I'm assuming with this vacated role from Commissioner Bournesty, we will have a new commissioner next >> meeting, correct? Okay. >> All right. Well, thank you everyone and we'll move along to the next item, community comment. So, similar to the public hearing, this is your opportunity to speak about a matter that's not on the the agenda, but you have three minutes to do so. And this is for those who are here in person. Uh just come up to either podium, state your full name address. If you've signed one of the cards where you don't have to state your address, you can then come up and speak. You have three minutes to share any insight or concerns about anything you might have. Anyone here for community comment? All right, seeing none, we'll we'll move to our public hearing. So, we have one public hearing tonight. And what to expect for this public hearing is the following. So [sighs] any applicant, a resident such as yourself or a developer or say a school district wants to do something with their land that doesn't quite conform or it's part of the agreement they have in place where they want to do something different, they have to apply to do that thing and the applications are different whether it's a variance, conditional use permit, subdivision, etc. uh city staff will review the application. They will perform like basically perform a full review, consult other uh department or commissions if they need to. They'll put this all together into a very informative staff report for us. That staff report kind of gets morphed into this presentation that you'll see. uh then we'll kind of exchange with some Q&A and then we give the opportunity to the applicant to come forward and give their own presentation and have another Q&A and then we open it to a public hearing where that's your chance as a resident to testify about the matter and for those who are tuning in remotely to do the same and I'll provide some info then we bring it back to the planning commission to deliberate and make a recommendation for approve approval or denial. So that's the typical process in case you're curious. Uh and with that, take it away, planner Teague. >> Okay. Thank you, uh, chair, members of the planning commission. So this request has been made by the Dina Public Schools at the Highlands Elementary School. It's for a conditional use permit. So the the school is located west of the Grand View District, north of Vernon, off of Doncaster. It's uh currently zoned R1 single family or single dwelling unit district. It's surrounded by primarily single family homes all around the site. It's a rather large site for elementary school, 11 acres guided in our comprehensive plan for public and semi-public use. The specific proposal is to expand the existing parking lot. There's no improvements made to the school itself or expansions in that way. It's just for 54 additional parking spaces. Uh the purpose of the request is for their busier times to um get parking off of Doncaster. Um elementary schools are a conditionally permitted use. Anytime you expand a parking lot and a conditionally permitted use, you need another conditional use permit. The last conditional use permit that was granted the school was back in 2001 for a small three threeclassroom addition to the school. Uh really three main issues with this proposal. The conditional use permit is required but landscaping, lighting and drainage. So this is the expansion area school to the east. There are single family homes to the west. The district was proposing a mixture of deciduous and coniferous trees. The site sits higher than the homes to the west, particularly as as the the lots move northward. Uh the home here on the corner sits a little bit higher. Um, so there will be some fill uh placed here in order to um create the the new parking area. Our city forester reviewed the plan. Given the single family homes to the west, we had some concerns about screening and how can we effectively screen that. He's recommending that rather than deciduous trees, this entire area should be coniferous trees, likely extended to the north here to provide some screening for the home uh here to the north. Uh as a condition of approval, they would have to revise that landscape plan subject to the city forers approval. The school district is agreeable to that condition. Another issue is lighting. They have submitted a lighting plan that demonstrates code compliance. the any lighting would be downcast and you can see the lumen measurement would be zero at the lot line. So that would be code compliant. Uh the last issue is grading and drainage. Um they did submit a plan where [snorts] some of the the drainage here in this west lot. There's an underground system proposed in this location here and drainage eventually would spill out to the north and west. this that's not acceptable to our engineering department. And in their review memo, they're suggesting that this needs to be redone rather than this. This uh parking area, the drainage should all be directed to the south and east. Applicants aware of that. They're agreeable to that condition. You'll see a video here later of some of the significant drainage issues that exist today. We don't want to make that any worse. In regards to uh the conditional use permit criteria, given satisfaction of the issues that I raised, staff believes that the conditional use permit criteria is met. Uh there's no expansion of the school, no increase in in traffic. Um so we believe that all those conditional use permit criteria are met. So with that, staff is recommending approval of the conditional use permit subject to those findings and then those conditions that are also listed in the staff report. The school [clears throat] district doesn't have a formal application. Um but they would be ready for questions. Maybe they'd like to introduce themselves and um we can all stand for questions then. >> Just to clarify, they don't have a formal presentation. >> Yes. >> Okay. I hope they formally applied. >> They don't have a formal presentation. Correct. So, I guess then we Thank you. Thank you, Carrie, for the presentation. That is good. Thank you for clarifying some of the details that they've changed. Um, those are the kind of things that any resident would appreciate. Um, especially the ones most affected nearby. With that, let's just combine the question and answers like we've done previously. So, if this is back to the planning commission, if you have any questions for staff or the applicants, now is the time. >> Thank you, Director Teague, for the presentation. Um, [clears throat] so I'm I'm very familiar with with with this parking situation. Actually, my kids go to Highlands and so I know for a fact when it's time to do um a lot of the events, um we have to back up uh on Doncaster all the way even to Highlands Park sometimes. And so I think this this makes sense, but I know with that area there was some trees um that had some ash boore issues I think in the past and I think a lot of them were removed. How does that impact um this new recommendation of putting in the uh uh not the ciduous trees? I forgot the the coniferous trees. Did I say that right? Okay. Um how does that impact that restoration because I know a lot of them were removed during that ashbor situation. >> Okay, it's live mic. Um, good evening commission. Uh, my name is Sal Begley. I work at Wold Architect Tex and Engineers. Um, so here with me I also have our project manager Aaron designer Michaela. Um, this is Cole Larson, one of our civil engineering partners at Bolton and Mink. And then we also have Mert, the um, business manager for the school district. So um, we might take turns um, answering questions. Um, so we did receive the comments about um, the screening and landscaping. Um so what we submitted originally was um actually the mix that the city code generally requires a mix of caniferous and deciduous but I think there's good judgment in the proposal um to change to all coniferous and there's no issue. Um and then like um planner Teague said you know the request to extend it further to the north I think was well heard by the school district and so we've actually already submitted a drawing um back to the city that it shows that landscaping extended further. um the ashbor situation. I don't know if you have any comments on Cole, but >> so as far as the species that are going in uh in the new areas, they're all uh working with the safe forest or the approved tree list. Um none of them are susceptible ashbor, emerald ash, Dutch elm disease. Very very selective in what we're putting in. Being coniferous, um we're going with a con color furs, things that are disease resistant that should stand the test time that are native uh locally sourced around here. >> Does that answer your question? >> Yes. Thank you so much. That was great. >> Um, I know there's a a spot north northwest called Woodlandia. >> I don't know if you guys ever heard about Woodlandia. So, Woodlandia is >> I might I might need some residents to get me caught up on what Woodlandia is. >> Okay, these folks know about Wood Woodlandia. Um, it's it's it's it's a location where the kids go and play uh outside. Um, and that's one of the reasons why Highlands we selected because the curriculum is really based a lot on nature and being outside. It's a special place. >> It's a very, very special school. And so I know we'll be looking at a drainage plan. And I think what the city engineers were pointing to was not to uh drain into that north uh west area cuz I think that's where Woodland is. So I'm just not sure if that's going to go away if that stayed. And it seems like you guys are proposing to shift the drainage to more the southeast side right of the parking lot. Is that accurate? >> Yeah, we received that comment as a part of the city report. Um so I'll let Cole maybe talk about what we're currently working on. >> Yep. So we just current two days ago we received that. Um originally the idea was to use the existing outlet structure that was on that north um after we received the city comment. Um we're still digesting that information. The goal is to move it away from there and get going south southeast generally, but we're still working on that. Yeah, we're still in the design phase for the project. We usually try to go through this process during the design phase so that we can get everything button up before we go out for bid and things like that. So, not too late to make changes for sure. >> Perfect. Thank you so much. >> Director T, you mentioned a video. Are we going to see a video later? >> It'll probably come during the public hearing. Okay. >> We'll make sure that you see it. I was just wondering uh along the lines of the water obviously moving something that was going to go northwest to north to southeast >> seems like you know things are already draining must be draining toward that toward the west or toward the west now because there's a just from the the aerial view it looks like there's not a lot of grass growing there so I'm wondering a little bit about um so there be some significant in uh cost in redirecting that water and and putting how however you're going to deal with it. My question is is more about this time of year in the winter when where where does the snow get stacked and things like that because if you just push it over the curb then it it's going to run into that same issue. >> Sure. I think it might make sense for Cole to just describe what the drainage plan in general is. Um because we do have some underground structures planned. Um and then we did submit a snow storage plan um to the planning department. So, >> yep. maybe start with that. >> So on site we're utilizing a UGS structure system. Um there's already existing one on site. We're supplementing it in the south parking lot. We're adding new to the western parking lot. Um our storm water will go into there. It holds where it's your rate your volume controls everything within the nine mile uh wershed district rules and regulations. >> Oh, you got to get closer, I guess. >> Sorry, my bad. Um so it stores in there and then it moves the southern ones go to the southeast. the area that we're talking about in that northwest, there was an existing culvert that went out that way. So, right now, the current topography takes down to that valley. Tipping the pavement back to go away, we only need like a 2 to 4% slope on that. It's a little bit of earth work underneath. And we're, like I said before, we're still digesting that and seeing how we can do that uh in the most effective way possible. For the snow requirements and our our snow plan provided, there is some snow storage that's still going to happen up in that corner. um just as a process of snow removal moving the snow say all the way to the north side or the south side of the site it it becomes a feasibility issue uh with time and also with the low salt initiative that we've implemented on this plan. We're looking at freeze refreeze. We don't want cross water as it melts and thaws going over causing slipping and safety concerns for the children. So, we're we're thoughtfully thinking out these areas and where we can push them, where it's going to drain, not across the whole parking lot, around the outsides and away from walking and slipping hazards. I was just curious, Commissioner Smith's already a parent of the Highland student. I'm a parent of a kid who's going to be one in four years. what what type of events are causing the overflow and how and how frequent call up to do a little um factchecking for me. So I I believe that there are um about6 160 parking stalls there today if you include the overflow lot and by overflow I mean um they have a a paved area that also doubles as like the hard surface play. So like you know four square hopscotch what have you. So, for kind of all intents and purposes, there's some spots that are not used for a school special or a school day, but special events, we can open that up and use them. Um, but there are, I think, did you say 128 regular staff? Do you want to do those citations? >> 128 to 130 regular staff. Um, at least 15 regular parent volunteers and about 30 or so other parents coming to and from the site during the day. >> And that's not a special event, right? That's kind of like that's a Tuesday, right? >> Um, so if you And how many students are there right now? about 580. >> So for big events, if everybody has a, you know, parent attending, obviously you can see how that can get out of control pretty quickly. Um, and it's pretty normal that cars are parked down Doncaster and um I do know we got a comment that, you know, maybe expanding parking people might out of convenience still do that and >> that that could be true. We really can't make people's choices for them, but I do know it's a regular source of frustration for people who are at the site. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. Can I ask and the are you principal? >> Uh he's director of business services for school district. So finance manager. >> Okay. Thank you. Um so this it's primarily for event parking separate from daytoday school. >> I would say it's a combination of both. >> Okay. >> I think there's I would say I mean I've been to the site many times and there's been 10 or 12 cars on Doncaster. Um, I would say that the total we're proposing should make a difference more for events, but it will matter on a day-to-day basis. If you have conferences or larger special education meetings where you might have 10 or 15 like traveling staff for the district, they're basically at max kind of without even like one special meeting, right? Or one class having parent volunteers or grandparent volunteers. So, I think it's pretty frequent. We might call them special events, but schools have a lot of special events. I I've been one of those people parking at Highland Park to get to the school for a meeting. So, I can certainly speak to that. >> Right. And because you've talked about um Woodlandia and and having some kind of environmental impact um issues because, you know, part of our climate action plan is, you know, to kind of reduce singleuse kind of vehicle trips. And so I'm wondering if the school has and I know there's you talked about parent choice and people choice but I wonder if if the school system has any um manifest or statement or something that you give to parents to you know to encourage them to use um bikes or buses or other me means of transportation. >> Anything especially for those times of day when it's really difficult to get in and out. >> Absolutely. uh you know we are the largest employer in in the city and obviously the largest user of you know resources. Uh we don't have a a specific plan for single vehicles. Um although we do um frequently pursue grants and other opportunities for electric vehicles. We have three electric school buses on the way for next school year. Um we're frequently reviewing our roofing systems to see where we can add solar panels. We do have solar arrays on two of our buildings. We're looking to expand that in the future. Um, we have, you know, various environmental groups that are always looking to enhance our, you know, and reduce our footprint. >> And I think there's a lot of environmental groups that are trying to kind of reduce, you know, single car trips and and work on other modes of transportation, too. So, I'm wondering if there's anything in the in the school school system because I know it's it's it is districtwide, you know, the issues with parking. So, I'm wondering if there's any kind of push um especially with high school. I mean, you've got kids in grade school, but if you ever go to the high school, the drop off and pickup is scarier than anything I've ever done. Um, so, so I'm wondering because you also the low salt initiative and stuff like because driving in a single family or a single occupancy vehicle isn't necessarily great for the environment. You know, I think there's other ways. So, I'm wondering if the school system has any kind of like at the beginning of the school year, please consider, you know, driving our being in our buses or, you know, bikes or even with this if there was a way for bicyclists to get in and out during the morning and afternoon um pickoff that was like separate from cars that would make it easier for people to do because I know this, [laughter] sorry, I'm probably putting on this spot, but I know this school is very popular and um people love going there and there's only one road in and out. It's very unique. It's much different than any of the other schools in the system. Um so I think in this one in particular kind of guiding people or asking them to consider other ways of getting there would be right thing. Yeah, I would say we're certainly in favor of, you know, reducing uh our carbon footprint, but again, we we can't make those choices for families and we need to provide that amenity for those visiting the site for business or other purposes. Yeah, I think that the district is not alone in um experiencing I mean that it's interesting to think about what car culture looked like when the school was first built and how much that has increased in our society and that's not an Adina specific topic um but there's been a marked increase in desire for parents to do the picking up and dropping off or other family members or siblings or what have you um since the pandemic. So, I would say since, you know, 2021, um, it's been challenging. You know, transportation is available, car pooling is available, biking is available, walking's available. Um, but at the end of the day, those are all optional choices. Um, and it's a obviously a choice people are not making enough to not have our problem be spilling onto city streets, >> right? So, we get the district gets complaints about that, right? And so, we're really here trying to solve a problem. I wish everybody made different choices, but um, it's complicated, right? Everybody makes their choices for different reasons, whether because they feel comfortable letting their student bike alone or it's more convenient for their work, right? Like it's a myriad of factors. >> Yeah. And I can I get that this is more events. Those events, I mean, they're very popular. Um the fundraising events that happen there. >> I've got a couple more questions more technical about the heights of lights and timers on lights and stuff like that. So, >> yeah, we have the we have we can get that from the electrical engineering team real quick here. >> Okay. Cuz >> but we did have to we did have to prove with a phototric study um what the light levels would be and that they would not be spilling off of the property. So, that's what the lighting study that pler showed. >> Yeah. And I and I noticed that and I also noticed that that whole north side it dropped significantly. So, some of those houses, especially as they turn the corner, going to be below those lights. And I know you're talking about extending the screening, but I was wondering if making sure like way on the north side all the houses that are 20 ft down, if someone's looking out the rearview window, are they looking up into a light or is it really shielded so enough so that the light is up high in the shield? >> There is shielding and that's required as a part of city code. Maybe planner Teague is going to bring something up. Um I it would be false to say that somebody couldn't see the lights though, right? you know, a light source is going to be visible. So, I don't want to make it seem like it's not pos, but the the the direction the light is spilling is controlled. Um, and it's kind of the minimum number of lights to get the lighting levels you really want are all that's included. >> Yeah, you need about two foot candles to kind of walk down the path, which isn't very much. >> And looks like Carrie's bringing something up. [clears throat] Thank you. Uh I thought [snorts] I would uh bring up those revised plans uh that were submitted. So this is the landscaping. We haven't had time to look, you know, sizes, that kind of thing, but you can see how they've extended the landscaping >> up a little bit in the >> the north there. So kind of all along. >> Can you zoom in a bit more, Carrie? >> I think it's about 30% [clears throat] longer than it was before. >> And where is that northern or northernmost light on the west side? And there are no lights on the north side. It's just on the west side. >> Might have to go to the photoometric plan. Carrie, do you have that? [snorts] >> The the current light poles are 25 ft tall. So they're reusing all the ones that they're able to. And then the new poles will also be 25 feet to match. >> Okay. So that >> here you can see I think the the light poles are the I'll call them the dots or the circles, right? And then the the light that they um emit is kind of the um nebulous shapes around them, right? >> Yeah. >> Yep. So we we try not to overdo it and try to have very little overlap. Right. If you place them too close, then you're overlighting the kind of the ven diagram area between try to get by with as few as possible. I also have that snow storage plan if you want to see that. >> Excuse me. >> The blue areas representing where the snow would be stored. >> Yeah. So, I think um what Cole was saying when he was up here, so was this a good visual for people to see. Um, obviously trying to get snow to other parts of the site requires a lot more driving, right? So, a lot of people time and vehicle time to physically up and move it. So, there is, I think, a practical effect to having, you know, needing some snow to go to the north there. >> Where where is the You mentioned the drain. It's catching that water and pushing it pulling it back to the other side. It Where where is that located on this roughly? Um, so there is a um drain that's kind of oh at the northern part of the expanded parking lot and if they everything could be shown on one drawing it would be easier but they're all on different drawings. Um on the utility drawing thank you um so you can see there's um kind of a a line a dash line that has like ends to it. Um, so that is the outlet location that we received comments back from um, city engineering that um, that that that would not be approved. Um, so that's what we have to get going in a in a southern to southeasternly direction. >> You're pulling the water back in in a pipe and and putting it into a structured system is what I'm understanding. >> There will be an underground storm water system underneath the parking lot. Yep. >> In in that general area. I mean under the parking lot itself. >> It's under under the parking that's being expanded. Not not over in the south. >> It will be Is it entirely under the new? >> It is entirely under >> entirely under the new. >> Okay. >> The Yeah, the underground storm water system will be under the new the expanded part of the parking lot. Yep. There already is one to the south um but that is already full based on watershed requirements. So we cannot add any more to it. No, no. [laughter] Otherwise, it turns to pure and utter chaos. >> No, no offense. >> It's difficult to >> I I I understand. >> Question on the >> One more question on the lights. >> Yeah. >> Are they on timers or are they on 24 hours? >> I believe they have the ability to be on timers. Yep. Yep. >> So, usually power down at a certain time and then can go totally off. >> Thank you. I don't know what the district's um schedule is right now with for the current lights. So that I would need to ask probably Rod who's not here, the facilities director, but yeah, that's one of the capabilities of that kind of LED light. Yep, >> that'd be good. Thank you. >> Any other question? Yep. Commissioner Alar, >> is there a fence between the edge of the uh the parking lot, the proposed new parking lot, and the homes to the west? >> I don't believe so. I believe it's all landscape screening. Well, not on the district's property. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I'm not supposed to be talking. So between the western edge of the new part of the parking lot, it's flat with new trees. Is that accurate or is there some kind of a burm or anything between to the property? >> There isn't a burm scheduled today or planned to be um today actually and um I think planner te characterize it well. kind of as you move north um the school property kind of starts to become higher than the homes um so we have included the required screening and that's what was required to be ch or asked I should say to be changed all can coniferous um planted pretty tightly um so I would say there will be a visual barrier but there's not like a a berm proposed there's a good grade drop off there so >> okay it looked like the conifers were specified for 8t tall Do you know that? Correct. >> When they're when they're planted >> initial plant. Correct. Yes. Sorry. >> Um what what species are you what what height you thinking for that species? >> Get up to 45. And I I just wanted to also emphasize we originally submitted with a mix of deciduous and coniferous just because that's actually what the um the um department actually specifies initially but I think it's well stated that in this particular condition that's not appropriate. So our drawings showed that. Happy to change it. No problem. >> Thank you. >> I guess just quick question to interject. Do we have any photos or maps that kind of highlight existing conditions a little better? I feel like there's a lot of just questions around that that might be better handled if we just had a picture or pull up Google Maps and Street View. >> I can work on that. >> Okay. I just I think it it's helpful. Typically, we have like a pretty good understanding of what the site is. I mean, even on these just graphically, I think it's important for the like the residents to understand like this isn't tearing down like 50 trees to put a parking lot. It's kind of this sparse empty turf with a a few trees there. Some of them are older, but yeah, as you can see with like Google Maps or so, if you could pick a couple of those up, Carrie, and then or if there are photographs too at grade like from street view or something, I think it just helps all of us and other residents tuning in understand the ex existing conditions. Anyone else have any questions? Commissioner Smith? Yeah, thank you again for for really explaining the detail here. Um, just a couple questions on two things. One is just the, you know, if let's just say the construction happens like what time of year you're thinking on how much disruption is that going to cause to >> school environment? >> Um, planning to have the site construction happen over the course of two summers. So, this summer 2026 and then also summer 2027. Um, it didn't come up yet and I actually I'm surprised it didn't, but um, this does this site does serve as a polling place. And so, that's something that we really cannot take offline for this August. Um, and so there's a limited amount of time kind of between school letting out in June and it needing to be kind of ready for a lot of people to be there as a polling place. Um, so the it was advised to the school district by the construction manager that we do some work this summer. Um, but actually I would say probably a larger portion the following summer, summer 2027, just because we can't really afford to have it torn up and not not be an appropriate polling place. >> And then the other question was um just the feedback. I know this school has been like this for a long time and I'm pretty sure people were parking on Doncaster for a while as well. Was there anything specific that triggered the this event to start working on it now or um you just you know just got around to it at this time? I just curious on the timing and what feedback you received that you know triggered the process. >> I don't know if there was any one particular moment maybe I'll let M speak to. >> No, just persistent feedback that there's not enough parking um particularly on those days where there's special events. We also have a, you know, a different project on the interior planned and it just seemed a good time to match those projects together and have the site down for as little as possible >> and I would say interest and appetite from the school board to take the problem on. >> Absolutely. >> Yep. So there was it the finance committee of the board had to >> finance and facilities >> finance and facilities committee has heard heard about the problem and was interested in taking it on and >> it has been discussed at that committee for um at least the last 18 months. Got >> it. Thank you. Commissioner Padilla, do you have anything? >> I wanted to make sure that there's no change to the traffic pattern, buses or drop off or anything like that. >> No intended change to traffic pattern. I said the plans were dated August and I was wondering why um if there was a reason that it took so long to come to the commission. >> We just generally like to submit when we're as close as possible to being done so that things are accurate. So in close collaboration with um the planning department um we started mapping out when the right time to submit was. So you don't want to submit things that are too too early and not quite ready. Um I would also say that we did some important testing um that maybe residents or others might have seen. So we've gone out and done um soil boring testing um just to see what the composition of the soil will be. Obviously we want to make sure to plan our pavement sections to survive that. Um and then we also did um what's called a double ring infiltrometer test to see how water will permeate back into the earth. And so we didn't have those tests back at that time. So it didn't feel appropriate to submit because our our um answers to the city engineers for many of their questions would have been we don't know yet. So, >> okay, great. Thank you. Very thorough. Appreciate it. Thanks. >> Any other questions? >> Just in general, I mean it, as you mentioned, it is a very large site for an elementary school and this is the main parking lot apparently. Um, seems like had had other other locations been explored for adding parking. I mean, you're you're going up pretty close to the the spot line. As I'm looking at at Google Earth and whatnot on my phone, I'm I'm seeing that like between the second and third house on Doncaster on the east side of Doncaster, that parking is pretty the the existing parking is pretty visible and and you're going to get another 10 12 feet, whatever closer. Um, I'm just wondering what what you know when you looked at the site, were there other spots potential potentially could hold this uh extra load of cars? >> Yeah, I can speak to that. Um, so we really are trying to keep um cars away from where kids are playing during the day. Um, and so that's already kind of happening right now where there's some parking happening over there. Um, so that is a challenging part of the site um because we would lose hard surface play area and if anyone's been to Highlands during recess time, it is well utilized. There are a lot of children out there. Um, not everybody can be on the swings at the same time. Um, we were respectful of setback requirements and I, you know, this probably I in the eye of the beholder, but I actually think the screening requirements, um, you know, they're not met today, right? It's a non-conforming use of parking lot. Um, so I actually think from a visual perception it's going to be much improved. Um, obviously, you know, kind of down the hill is not a good candidate, right? We're going to have to build road to get to it. Um, and people really want to get to the front door when they come to an elementary school because that's where we require them to come in from a security perspective. So having them park around the back, for example, doesn't really do anybody any good because then they have to walk around and come to door one. So that that just starts to become a practical challenge of you could add parking on the I'll call it the back side of the building, but who is it really who is it really for at that point, right? Um so we like I said, we were respectful of setback requirements and I actually think the landscaping is going to be a major improvement, but again there's opinion based in there. >> So with that you can in this picture that director Teague put up there's obviously this is where I was looking too that the uh there there's not a lot of grass established there. So, is there as as you're going further west with this parking lot, is there is there going to be you're not talking about a fence, you're talking about bringing in more fill. Is there going to be as you go to the north, it looks like you're dropping quite a bit in elevation. So, is there going to be any kind of retaining wall or anything on that or >> no retaining wall? >> I'll let I'm just let the civil engineer come up and speak into the microphone. Um so on that side there's not going to be retaining wall. Uh we have a we have a rule where we always try and maintain under a 25% slope for both pedestrian traffic and erosion control. Uh bringing in the uh landscaping in that area is going to help establish roots that are going to hold a lot of that soil in place. So we should see less erosion in there and then it's going to be seated over the top um for all the areas that eventually as the conifers grow underneath it becomes needles like that. But then around there would be seating in there. But it should show less uh erosion in the future than it does currently right now just because it's a highly eroded area with no real vegetation holding it in. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any other questions? All right. I got a few. Woo. Nice. Okay. So, first question. Uh just looking at the actual plan of the parking, can you explain the context of how you landed on the quantity of new parking spots and are those required in your opinion? Is there flexibility there to accommodate potentially some other change? I just just trying to understand. Are you just trying to basically get as much as you possibly can kind of in the confines of that rectangular area? Is that the goal or was there a certain number of spots you're trying to hit? >> Um we always had goals during the design process of trying to um you know get another 30 or 40 stalls because it seems like on a regular basis that is a challenge. Um we had some debate back and forth during design of if we were going to do angled stalls again or if we were going to do 90 degree which obviously everybody knows changes kind of counts. Um and then you know as soon as you look at setback and landscaping buffer requirements we kind of knew where you build kind of max could build two. Um and then obviously just from like a kind of a fiscal responsibility perspective building a drive aisle that only has one side of parking. You build that drive aisle whether you get one side of parking or you get two sides of parking. We did try to have, you know, I would say, you know, efficient pavement design. Um, so I wouldn't say that there's, you know, exactly 54 cars that don't fit on the site every day. I think there's going to be days where this doesn't get the job done still on special event days. Um, but ideally, it's going to solve kind of your average school day. >> Okay. And I guess on that note, because that was my question just in in regards, so I I have children that go to Highland. So I've been going there for about six years now. Um very familiar with the site and how and what happens there. Uh and some of it's not just the how the buses show up and the kids get there, which my kids take buses, but there's plenty of times where I show up during the day or for an event. And even during the day the that lot the current lot is full like during a normal school day and you're like getting the last spot. I don't know how it just doesn't seem possible but that happens a lot. Um but the pattern of traffic there and I think this goes to some of the comments that we can't solve here. This is just as you follow your way out of this neighborhood, it is just challenging of how Tracy crosses Vernon and splits and causes these traffic jams where people are waiting for each other and then you get bottlenecked back into the site. But even even that like how the buses move through the site, how you have the one-way traffic. Um, do you see issues like when you guys were looking at whether you do a one-way system through this cuz you said angled parking, so that means one way or two-way. Do you see a potential for introducing more issues with having two-way coming in and out of this new parking area? >> You have any reaction to that? It just seems like th this I mean this parking lot as as you experience it like a lot of it is you just follow either how people are directing you or you loop and now we're adding this new area where you can kind of enter exit each like a different way and some of that comes with a sacrifice of space. the drive aisle doesn't need to necessarily be as wide if you did all the angled parking >> just to I'm trying to like respect the neighbors. Some of this just seems like it's it's slapped on there to maximize as many spots as possible where like it and even with the current landscaping plan of what we see like it I feel like there ought to be some more buffering that kind of comes around the north side too but it looks like the parking lots been pushes far north before the grade drops down and you really don't have a choice. So my question back to like the quantity of spots is I mean if this were more of a sketch plan type of thing like I would see this and recommend removing like six spots off the north of this just to start all this parking farther south to have more landscaping wrap that north side and still provide snow storage and manage some of this drainage issue because now you're going to have to lift the lot. Meaning you're going to have to add more fill, create more slope. I don't know if these things have been discussed by you guys um as you've been weighing pros and cons of this current design as we see it. >> Yeah. So there there's pros and cons to birectional traffic versus unidirectional traffic. Um what it does largely come down to is is the school's programming when they're out there. They can do different options where during certain hours it's it's unidirectional. When you're backing out of angled spots, we tend to see in our traffic studies uh more backing into other people with two lanes, there's a little more safety cushion in there, but again, it it's going to come down to the use on there. It's going to come down to people playing nice, not trying to get that last little spot out there. Um, as far as how big we made it on the north and where the grades are, we always kept that in mind. We didn't want to make something too steep in there. We didn't want to make something that was over the top and just going to erode back down. Um, with our low salt design, we were looking at the snow storage quantities of volumes of snow piled up there, the thaw where it goes down. Um, and it was sized around those. Now, it's not to say that it couldn't be a bigger area for that in there or, you know, six less spots. Yeah, there's pros and cons of that as well. Um, but as we were going through this and developing it all to to Sal's point, you know, we're trying to be economical with the space on here. We know we're not solving everything for the big events, but we're trying to maximize the space for use for those everyday activities. Okay. And then I think that is all I have for you guys. Well, okay. So, back to the screening. Um, and with the landscaping, was it ever explored to have like two rows of landscaping or is that are you going to stagger things like that to provide a more concealed look? So, over time when these things grow to full mature size, they will eventually be cone to cone as the growth pattern goes up. If we start staggering in there with the size of species to get the height and the full widths on there, they'll start choking themselves out. you'll start getting mold and different scales that affect chute bore on the conifers spec specifically. Um, so those are all taken. We always try and plant for the future, not just filling the space with as many of these little ones right now and then they choke out and they don't they're healthy. The health of the plant over the long term doesn't doesn't survive. We are going with a larger species being planted at the at the initial onset. um those usually take two to three years to kind of catch up to a younger plant that's planted in that same area with root health stability and the overall um adaptation to the soils. Um so having a little more space going the larger size is going to lead to a larger healthier stand of trees in the future. >> I don't know that we've had a discussion about um I was just looking at it staggering. I think certainly we could continue to talk about that >> or um as you already mentioned if if it wanted to wrap around a little bit to the north or something. Yeah, I mean >> the requirements as around kind of property line, right? But >> yeah, and we I mean I'd say this out of experience from being up here and seeing what has been done and what's been proposed previously keeping in mind of like being a good neighbor like schools are as well as the neighbors to schools. I mean, we've seen proposals where, you know, more of a setback is protected, even though it didn't have to be. And having, you know, two rows of plantings just to provide just more screening, more protection, just more buffer of space between uses. Especially if people are pulling in here and it's the morning or evening, you're going to just have headlights blasting into these people's houses, you know? So that's half the winter. I mean, that's like half the school year is, you know, drop off and pickup is it's dark out. And so that's a lot of headlights. So like I'm I'm just keeping in mind like there's headlights now, but they're at an angle and they're like they're 50 feet 60 feet back from the property line currently. Just a question. And then as it is proposed, what what is the distance between the property lines to the west and the edge of the parking? >> 23.3 ft, I believe. Okay. >> I might be wrong on the.3. It's 23. It's some change. >> That's right. And and I would add that the code requirement is 10 feet. So they they exceed the setback requirement. >> Yeah. We've just had similar thing, you know, like you have a golf course with a ton of space and then you put parking right up next to the house when you have a whole golf course to park at. So similar here and to Commissioner Nelson's point, I mean, or just question why wise like why here? I think I understand that fully and having dropped off my kids there lots of times and experienced the big events where you know and you didn't necessarily mention but a lot of big events do keep that east parking lot protected for food trucks or other things. So you really don't get full use of all the parking and you're not going to send people to this back hidden area to park. So, I think most neighbors, most I don't know, parents would appreciate more parking on site, but I mean, as just a steward of like our community, I I think I personally would be willing to give up a few of these spots to better to be a better neighbor to these residents most impacted by some of these decisions. Um, I guess one of my last questions is maybe to staff. This seems like an unusual plan at the point where we see it with a lot of these things not quite figured out from a landscaping perspective as well as drainage. Like actually, we need to we'll approve something, but we need to assume that the lot's going to flip back. Drainage is going to be different. There's like a lot of things not quite vetted here from just like a fundamental perspective that we don't usually see. Usually this is vetted before we see it. So, >> well, it's not uncommon for engineering to require changes to a drainage plan. I mean, they've submitted everything that's required. >> Yeah, >> I guess it's just >> and changes to landscape plans not uncommon either. >> Maybe it's because it's just a parking feature and so that's kind of all it is. So maybe that's why it's so I mean that is the topic right now. So >> to be making decisions and having questions with some of these unknowns still >> it's challenging for us and I'm sure residents to >> try to support something they don't necessarily know what it's going to look like fully. So >> it's a it's a code compliant um site plan conditionally permitted. We can put certain conditions to minimize those impacts like the landscaping and the drainage. >> Sure. And then conditional use permits always go before the council too. So >> there might be a chance to if say we recommend a couple conditions or changes perhaps between now and when is this scheduled for city >> is uh next Tuesday. >> Well, that's pretty tight. >> Mhm. But that's just the public hearing. They don't take action for another three weeks. >> Okay. So, I mean, that might be just a benefit for people to understand. Sometimes we've seen between public hearings some things change favorably because ultimately we're not the one making the binding decision. So, I would think it'd be wise to take the feedback, whatever it might be. But, I just wanted to kind of understand some of the context. Any other questions for staff or the applicant team? Okay, thank you guys. [snorts] Stay tuned. And this is a public hearing. So, like I mentioned, this is the opportunity for those residents who would like to testify about this matter. And there's two ways to do so, whether you're in person or you're tuning in remotely. So, I will get all the info out there for those who might want to tune in remotely. And as we wait for those people to join the virtual queue, we will let some people testify in person. So, first uh if you are tuning and you'd like to participate, please call the following number. All the info should be on the screen. 312-535 8110. Enter access code 2868715 8121. Enter password 5454. Press star 3 on your keypad to get in the queue to indicate your interest in speaking. And since there's about a one minute lag, we'll let that kind of play out. And it seems like we have people who are here in person that'd like to testify. So, for both parties testifying, you have three minutes to do so. You come up, state your full name. If you haven't filled out the card, then state your address. Also, you have three minutes to go. When the light turns green, when it turns red, your time's up. We'll ask you to wrap up your comments, and then we'll proceed with whoever else would like to testify. So, please come forward. And thank you. introduce myself or wait for that first. >> Pardon? >> I guess you're good. You're good. Red light. >> Thank you. Thank you. So, um, yeah. Hi, Joe Corbett. Um, 5501 Doncaster. Um, we've been residents of the Should I wait till the green? >> Okay. Uh, we have been residents uh of the area since well actually born and raised in Adina. Actually went to Highlands Elementary in 1981. I don't remember any parking problems back then, but I wasn't driving at the time to be fair. Um uh you know it's uh it's been a wonderful community in and school for us. We feel like that it's been a a solid relationship between us and the school district. There have been many examples of you know for example uh tree pruning where trees were on the the school lot but it affected our property and I worked with the previous principal and groundskeepers and so on and so forth to uh you know get permission for tree clearing and things like that. and it was always positive like of course we'd love to have you you know pay for something that the school would rather not which is always understandable. Um uh the biggest question I have for uh well maybe two big questions I have here are one this feels like a a kind of a a solution looking for a problem because I looked at ratios of parking um in other areas and it's worth noting that um I don't it sounds like there didn't need to be a permit pulled but um in 2015 there were 25 spots added. So Highlands now has 171 spots. The proposal is to go up to 225. Countryside, by comparison, has 110 spots. Countryside also has 629 students and uh Highlands has 554 students. Percentage-wise, that's a parking percentage difference of proposed 41% for Highlands and leaving Countryside at 17%. So, I'm concerned that we'd be opening Pandora's box here that if you approve that for Highlands, it spreads to the other neighborhoods. Um, I wish I had cleaner notes here and and and had started a timer for myself. Another thing, snow clearing. Um, I I'm concerned that the drainage plan things shift over time, right? And when somebody's clearing snow at three in the morning, there might be an instruction manual on where you're supposed to put that, but at three in the morning, when you're making 20 bucks an hour and you're in a hurry to get to the next site, you're not really thinking about that. And there's some serious drainer drainage concerns you'll hear about um from my neighbors. Um last point, um we've seen this for, you know, over the course of the 13 years we've been been in the neighborhood. Um, this park, the true parking problem is maybe four to six times per year of where you really have it out into the street. The rest of the time, and I have tons of pictures I'm happy to share, um, we just don't see that. In fact, we we see empty spots. And for what it's worth, we were in support of the expansion uh, back in 2015. That made sense. It was subtle, but this is very dramatic. We're going from 20 or excuse me, 80t setback to 10 ft. Thank you. >> My name is Tara Corbett. I'm married to Joe, so 5501 Doncaster. We're right next to the driveway. Um I have a video that'll be played by a neighbor of mine who can't attend today. We're at the top of the hill right next to the driveway. She's at the bottom of the hill. So she has a river that goes through her lot on a regular basis. This is not an exceptional rain. This is a normal rain that she's experienced and she filmed. You can see on the video um and she did submit that via email so you can access that at any point. Um I'll echo Joe in we had three children go through Highlands. Our youngest is at South View now. Um I I work out of my home office. I have for over 10 years. Um I look at the Highlands and I I understand Mr. Smith and Mr. Hennet that you have children and Mr. Bournestein that attend Highlands. I live at Highlands. I see the parking. I see the people. The people come in and out for about 10 minutes on either side of the day. At the beginning of the school day and at the end of the school day, there are at least a dozen parking places. And I'm not talking about the south parking lot. I'm talking about the main parking. And not the north parking lot is for staff. The south parking lot is for the children to play at recess. The main parking lot has at least a dozen spaces open every single day. Yes, there are exceptions. The carnival used to be on Fridays, which was lovely because there was a lot more attendance. Now it moved to Saturdays, so a lot of the children do not attend. I think that was a mistake made by the school. We have a new principal. The old principal was very much a fan of the green environment. He rode his bike to school for decades. He he pushed that agenda with the children. They rode their bikes. They walked to school. I now see no children walking to school. >> They do not have crossing guards anymore at the school. I don't know what's happening at the school, but I think it is a significant change in culture and this this move to add more cars to address the 10 minutes of people coming in and going out at the end of the day is not going to address that need. Those people are not interested in parking. They're interested in driving in, dropping off their kids, and leaving. They're not going to park. So, I don't know what this is going to address. And this is Andrea Albertson Ramon's video that's been shared. >> Thank you. Anybody else who's here in attendance' like to speak? Yeah. doing. I'm Mark Overend live at 5421 Doncaster. [clears throat] Um, honestly, I wasn't planning speaking, but I came in here just to hear what sol issue you're trying to solve. And it sounds like you're create the issue is a traffic issue. It's not a parking issue. So, by putting more cars in there, you're actually making the the issue worse. And just like you said, I mean, the cars aren't going to be able to flow in that parking lot. Uh, right now there's actually a Sears grade in our backyard and we put a fence in. We put shrubs and trees and the lights still come into our house. It's dramatic, especially in the winter. And keep in mind that's with a snow bank. They they plow all the snow, they create a wall, and this lights still come through. So by bringing these cars that much closer and we all know cars today the the beams just get light brighter and brighter. I mean we have to pull the shades down now. It's going to be out of control. So um that's a major issue I believe. Besides that I would say yeah drainage wise we all have serious drainage problems on that side of the school. So I don't see how that that's going to make it any better. And um I just think overall you need to look at how the traffic flows in and out of there. And by creating more spots, it it just it's going to be a complete nightmare. So that's all I got. But thank you >> members of the commission, chair. Uh my name is George Watson. and I live at 5417 Doncaster Way. I'm at the low spot on the north end and I understand from the engineer that they're going to be putting in a slope of 4 to one essentially 25% slope. Now, if that's from the back of the curb, I'm not going to believe that that's going to work. Number one. Number two, if you're going to be landscaping that, how far down that slope are you going to put those plants? So, how large do they have to be to have any effect whatsoever? If you're plowing the snow into that area, are those plants going to be there in the spring? I sincerely doubt it. That being said, I too agree that really the issue isn't parking as much for daily use and events as it is just simply something that that the school district thinks they need and they're going to ram into the to the site. Now, I had suggested that you go with an angled 30°ree parking single bay with a drive lane behind it. One of the things that you do that way is you eliminate the headlight issue for all the neighbors along that side. Now granted, you don't have as many spaces. You might have 20, 25 spaces. I didn't count them. I don't know. But you can make up those spaces in the south lot. And I'm not suggesting that people extend the lot as much as they extend the play area and then put staff parking on the western end where they can control the access. I was out there today. I saw 17 spaces open at 11:07 a.m. Now, that included four handicap and 13 uh standard spaces. So, I'm not sure that there's really the need for that many spaces. The other thing I saw that I thought was quite interesting was one of the staff members jumped in a car that was parked in that south lot, backed out of the parking space, pressed the little button, the gate went up, and they left. That tells me that you could control that. You could put staff in that parking lot. You could extend that parking lot to the east and make that additional play area. So, you're not out space for play. You You would gain some space for parking. So, that with that, I'll I'll uh turn it back to you folks. >> Hi there. My name is uh uh Jeff Schusta. I live at 5413 Doncaster. You're basically going down the street except for Andrea who shared the video. She's the house next to mine, right? So that that river runs in between my house and hers. Um my concerns are really uh twofold and and they're really due to two different factors. One is uh drainage as you've seen. Um we already have dra drainage issues. Uh water comes in um out of this uh beat up concrete uh drain pipe that's on that that runs down um right into my backyard. Um, I've had issues. I've had leakage in the basement. I've had flooding in the backyard um during both heavy rain and snow melt. In uh one case a number of years ago, the ground got so saturated a huge tree that was on school property uh fell over uh knocked out the power line and uh uh took out the power. They had to come multiple times to get the the pole back up straight and then eventually they replaced it. So, one is clearly drainage. Uh the other is uh privacy. Um more people closer to my home. So, you would see if if in the drawings it would be that that northwest corner um would be uh pretty close to the corner of my backyard um and my bedroom windows. Um and when the house was built 14 years ago, I'm sure that wasn't planned for. Um the concerns I think come from two factors. One is the school is up on a hill, right? So, you got to picture it. Um it looks like the new parking lot would require a lot of filling to be flat. Not my area of expertise. Um, and that area would that flat area would be pretty close to the corner of my backyard. So, I question where's the water going to go? Um, I I've heard answers. And then, uh, what can we do about um, privacy, right? Because again, that's 20 ft above my backyard. Um, and and looking down probably almost on level with my bedroom window. Um, the other thing which was brought up recently is, you know, they took out about 100 ash trees recently and planted some new stuff. That new stuff, uh, hasn't really taken hold. I was on the volunteer team that worked on Highlands Woods and and actually uh took took some time out of work to actually plant trees and take out buckthornne, but it really hasn't done much in in in uh in part because the school has not uh taken out the ash uh stumps and so they've they've kind of blossomed in that in that area where the kids play. Um so with less trees, I've seen more erosion. So not only the water comes down, but now the the soil comes down, too. So, and that that river that runs next to Andrea's house, um, you know, there's there's a lot of dirt in there as well. Uh, options, I think I I read online, right? I, you know, you're looking for options. I think, you know, if more parking spaces are needed, which I would question because, again, I I think it's a couple times a year where we see cars parked on Doncaster. You also see cars parked on Dan Doncaster pretty extensively from, you know, down down in the park, right? Um, soccer days and whatnot. So, it's it's a pretty common occurrence, not just from the school. Um, but if you need more spots, find a flat spot somewhere else on the property. It's a pretty big property. Um, but those were those were kind of my ideas. Happy to uh host anyone who wants to see it. Um, come come stand in my backyard. You can see it all. You can see the old concrete thing. You can see where the cars would be. You can see the ash stumps. You can see it all. So, I'm willing to host. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Appreciate the invite. Do we have anyone else? Oh, yep. >> Hi. Yeah, my name is Jen Utark Overand. I'm at 5421 Doncaster and I just sort of want to add a little bit to what my neighbors have said. Um, the first thing is I'm at home every day, so I see what's going on. And I I know there was reporting saying that there are at least 10 to 12 cars parked on Doncaster every day. I have no recognition of that. Like I I don't see that at all. I walk my dog every day. I don't see cars parked. I mean, when it's pickup and drop off, there's a lot of activity in it. Specifically at pickup I see cars waiting that again is for 10 minutes a day I don't see cars regularly parked out there secondly I was a teacher in Edina I was an itinerant teacher a deaf and heart of hearing teacher who traveled to highlands I went to lots of elementary schools I found parking as an itinerant teacher at Highlands regularly so I just want to say that that wasn't an issue for me and then lastly just before I came here tonight there was a car in the parking not with the headlights on and I'm sure they were in their car doing something. They were on their phone or whatever because that's what people do in their cars now. And the headlights were on for probably 12 minutes just at my house. So, it's not just the coming and going the headlights. People park and stay in their cars and those headlights are just directed at my house. And it's it's hard that's hard to have. So, I just wanted to say that and I can't think of anything else but thank you very much. I appreciate the time. >> Thank you. And seeing that's it for those in person. Have there been anyone that called in to the queue? >> No, nobody has called in to speak. So I believe we are safe to proceed. >> We definitely are. It's been way over a minute. >> Yeah, it has. >> I guess I'd welcome a motion to close the close the public hearing. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All those in favor say I. I. >> I. I. >> All right. So move the public hearings close. Uh really appreciate the comments and the participation and being here in person uh for the residents. Uh insight is valuable to help us make decisions and now is the time where we pull it back to the commission to deliberate to make a recommendation for approval or denial. Again, this goes to the city council. So oftent times if we have conditions on say and approval uh oftentimes the city council listens to those and kind of incorporates them into their binding decision. Uh in terms of the pyramid of discretion the conditional use permits kind of in the middle. So we don't have a graphic for that but yeah it's that and subdivisions right >> middle toward the top. you know, it's a permitted use that you can put conditions on to minimize impacts for neighbors. >> Correct. So, and then I guess to reiterate what director Teague mentioned is most, you know, most of this is comply like in compliance of the code. Uh, but we do have [snorts] a bit more discretion than some of our other choices and a bit less of discretion than others. So, we're kind of in this middle spot toward the top. Um, but this is why it's important you've come and this is important why we do this. Open it to fellow commissioners to discuss, deliberate if there's any other remaining questions for staff or the applicant team. All right. Yeah, I can start off, I guess. Um, yeah, thank you for being here and all your comments. that uh really brought home what what's going on over there and and and uh under understand it a little bit better. Um I guess ultimately the the the solution might be someday and this isn't what's before us. So, I'm not going to deliberate on this much, but is obviously come off of Vernon and buy a couple of the houses and redirect where all that traffic comes in into that site, but um that's not as the school was built or designed or anything. So, again, I'm not going to comment beyond just that. Um it does seem, however, that um with all that water, it's hard to tell where that water's coming from from the video, but with all that water flowing um it's either coming from you know, it's obviously coming downhill. Is it coming from that parking lot or not? The my understanding with the storm water um compliance measures and whatnot is that you need to be able to maintain the water that falls on the property onto the property within the property. Um perhaps you mentioned an old culvert that's on site and and water discharging from that. If there's some condition that's grandfathered in, I would suspect with this addition that there would be be no longer any grandfathering and it would all need to be maintained on site. Now I I might be I'm not a civil engineer or a water person. I'm just um understanding a little bit about the codes and how things work as far as groundwater uh rainwater and and storm water. Um so I guess that that's my question. It it should better I mean if it's designed right and and works right, it should better that situation. Whereas if if that water is coming from the parking lot, which it's again, it's hard to tell from a video, um that it would be better maintained after this addition than uh than it currently is. I guess that's really all I have to say. The other the only other aspect is is uh is fencing an option to to buffer the headlights at least while these uh trees uh continue to grow and and do that job for it. That is all I have. >> Was there some question in there too at least to staff about kind of the requirements for storm water and managing it on site? whether things change if something was grandfathered in kind of I don't know if it was a question kind of seemed like it >> was more of a comment but I mean I yeah I I suspect that assuming this all goes through the proper channels of permitting and and I don't know how much the uh um watershed district has to look at this at all. I mean if there's any there's water down way down the way but it's not uh close to this. So I don't know that they have any purview on this. Um, but I also I my understanding is that as that water falls and and is falls onto the lot that that needs to be maintained on the site and can't go off into uh neighboring properties. I'm just wonder is that correct or am I incorrect with that? >> I'm not an engineer, but from my understanding, yes, they can't they can't direct additional drainage onto neighboring properties. And that's that's the reason that our city engineering staff had identified this that they can't direct any more drainage to that area that has to go to the south and to the east. And if there was a question on fencing, yes, you could require a fence. It could be, you know, not on the lot line because that's its lower, you know, right up against the parking stalls. You know, it could be a like a 4 foot wood fence around that west side that would that would block the take care of that headlight issue. Yes. Yeah. Right next to the parking spaces. Just no storage. Yeah. They would have to take that somewhere else then. Yep. >> Want me to go? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Go ahead. Just turn off. >> And mine won't go off either. >> I think um a couple of comments. First, it's a co-compliant project and I have a really hard time deciding whether the school needs it or doesn't. I mean, for my personal experience, I I drive a school bus for the district part-time, so I'm in and out of there quite a lot, and I have not myself observed unusual parking on the roads out to the public streets and along the public streets, but that's a sample of one for me. Um, I guess the the the point of saying that is I I would really encourage I don't think we got a good sense quantitatively of the scale of the problem we're trying to solve. And I think that would have helped me a lot if the applicant had come in and said, "We've got a 40 spot problem, so we're going to add 54." And I I didn't hear that. whether it's a school day or an event issue. I heard there was an issue, but I didn't hear it quantified, so I can't really compare that to the number 54. Secondly, I think there's a missed opportunity. You know, the geometry here is really complicated to try to imagine in your head. I'm trying to put myself in the homeowner's shoes and it's very hard for me to imagine the grade differences and the angles between the houses and the parking lots and the lights and how the 8ft trees mitigate that for how many years before they're 12t and mitigate it further. Um whether a burr fence or any other thing might make a difference. And we in this group, we see all the time very impressive drawings from all different perspectives of what things are going to look like when they're built. And I would have really liked to see uh a model of what it looks like at a neighbor's house. It's not real. It's going to be a computer model of what it would look like and how the elevations stack up and what the 10-ft difference means from there and how the trees help and how that compares to the light standards that are a little bit to the east of the edge of the parking lot. But I just have I can't I can't imagine it. I'd like I wish my brain worked that way, but it just doesn't. And I think there's technology that could help us see that and understand what the problem is going to be and as a mitigation recommend more or less. Or maybe we'll just say, "Oh, that looks pretty good. I think it's going to be fine." But I think we it's a missed opportunity to to demonstrate how it's not going to be a problem. And then thirdly on the drainage, you know, um looks like a problem and it looks like the city is aware that there that there needs to be some mitigation, but we didn't see what that mitigation was or have a chance to have a hydraologist tell us that there's this many uh cubic feet of water coming off in an average storm and this is how we're going to deal with that many cubic feet of water in the storm. So I I mean I really have a hard time saying that's going to be okay. Uh so this is a really is much more difficult project than I thought it would be coming in here tonight. I just feel like I don't have enough information even though it's co-compliant and I want the school to have parking if they need parking. It's just um really hard for me to uh represent our residents and say, "Yeah, it's going to be fine. We got the problems under control. Yeah, I would I would echo quite a bit what Commissioner Alky shared here. You know, a school is a very unique uh institution because it's also an R1 and it sits within a neighborhood and the neighborhood and the school really need to align on how they want to coexist together in that space. And what I kind of felt this evening was that residents are saying parking is not an issue, right? There's not a a huge issue here. Whereas the development team are saying we need to create more parking. Now I certainly as a have you know had to park further away and walk to school but that's not every day. Um for the most part I drive straight up to the school right in front of it and I pick up my kids. So I do get that in some instances there's going to be a parking shortage for events. Um, but the bottom line is it just seems to me like there's not a real clear alignment between what the school perceives as a problem and what the residents that live around there perceive as a problem which initiated this to to come forward. And I couldn't tell if to Commissioner Alier's point if those sparking spots are a mustdo or a nice to do. And I was really struggling with figuring out, okay, I get it. There's some cars on the street, but how much cars? How much parking? What are we really short of that would say that we have to fix this? So, I think that was a little bit unclear to me. Um, if the applicant had walked in and says, "We need these spots because of X and it's causing a problem and here's exactly why," then I'd be like, "Okay." And if residents say, "Yeah, that's a problem. Now we have a joint problem that we got to solve for, but it just doesn't seem like it's connecting. Like it's it's not a line there. That's one. Two, um certainly the storm water situation is a real challenge. And I I'm not sure how long has that has been an issue. When I first uh was asking questions about the ashbor, it seems to me the root cause was the ash boar came destroyed the trees, destroyed the the holding of the water and the soil which then caused the runoff into the neighbor's lots and those trees haven't been uh you know taken root and grown up and been replaced appropriately and so it's continuing to be a problem. It's really a soil erosion problem because of something that the school wanted to do. Now, I was really sad when they took the trees down, but I got it because it was spreading disease within Woodlandia and the whole part of the school. And Highlands is a school that's designed and has a curriculum around nature, right? And they really want to preserve as much green space. They want to preserve as much canopy as possible. So, it was a real blow when that happened. And now we could see the down side effects of having no trees there is causing more erosion which is probably causing some of that runoff issues that you guys are experiencing. Um so the the faster we could correct that problem it hopefully would start correcting some of these runoff problems. That being said, um it seems like having some kind of water mitigation system that redirects the water away from the north west corner is always going to be a good idea because it's going to help prevent water erosion problems which we don't want to have. Um, with regards to the school board, uh, again, this is kind of, you know, I would have loved to listen in on some of those schoolboard decisions to understand why, and that's why I was asking on the timing. Why now, right? What, what happened that caused this to be an issue and it seems like it was, you know, the finance team kind of saw it as being a good timing. Now, they were doing some other work in the school. So, they fig, hey, let's just try to get to this right now, you know. So, what I was hoping to hear was it's a problem because of X and it just wasn't clear. It just seemed like I'll just get to it when I get to it. That's why I'm struggling with a must do versus nice to do situation. And then finally, um I certainly want to think about, you know, as much as the school and residents could come to an agreement, like what I think might be a good thing to do, and maybe you've already done it, is have some schoolboard meetings. Hey, bring the residents in. The the school comes in, everyone talks about it, discuss the issue, get to alignment and be like, we need to get X spaces. We go back and forth and you guys come up with a number that everybody feels comfortable with. You talk about the issues and then that turns our plan and then we see it. But I think what we're seeing now is misalignment. That's how I feel. And so I wish there was more alignment before showing up and then that would have made the problem a lot more easy for us to say, yeah, okay, everybody's in agreement here. the school has a mission to accomplish. The residents feel comfortable about it. A no-brainer, but now it's a little bit more difficult. So, that's just my thoughts on it. I concur with all that's been said. Um, I just also wanted to say like I like um another commissioner said earlier, adding more spots would for sure like incentivize more people to drive in a way. And I think that that like there's a lot of people who live around elementary schools. Like I know when I was in elementary school, I know a lot of my friends biked or walked and from what I hear, not a lot of people are doing that anymore. And if we add more like parking spots that would incentivize it even less compared to adding like I don't know like bike racks or something if more people like not to drive. Okay, I'll try [clears throat] not to belabor a lot of the points already made. Commissioner Alair stole a lot of my comments already. [laughter] But I had a lot of the the 3D rendering and all that kind of stuff that those comments. Um so I would I would just say that that you know in the discussion as we're thinking about this um that we make sure that we kind of center oursel around around the right things um a lot of discussion so far around you know defining the problem quantitatively and saying you know is this necessary what what's to what scale and what whatnot. Um but do you need it or not? Uh isn't a part of the condition for a conditional use permit, right? It's not part of the ordinance and it's not something that we should be deciding on, right? It's not really a factor. The city in a commercial [clears throat] district wouldn't deny a permit or an application for a Starbucks because there's a caribou right next door, right? Necessary or not, that's not really what should factor on a decision. I do agree. I would like to have seen or heard a more detailed explanation around the the logic behind the decision. Um, but I don't want to get hung up too much on the do you need it discussion um and parking ratios and whatnot. What we should center around is the ordinance conditions of which there are several. Um, and I would agree so far with the discussion that the information that we've been given makes it a little hard to make some judgment calls on some of these um particularly too. So there's uh condition three is does you know will the permit or will this uh use have undo adverse impact on public health safety or welfare. Um, we got a little bit of the taste of the drainage issue and I think the video and and um from city staff and city engineering. Um, I think that would be an excellent addition to the presentation to city council like a very detailed uh, you know, presentation from city staff and city engineering about the drainage problem. How's it going to be remedied? You know, are we still going to see rivers flowing through residents backyards, etc. Um so because we don't have that it makes it hard for me to to make it like to say yes or no it doesn't have an an adverse impact um on public health safety or welfare. Um [snorts] and then that also kind of feeds into the impeding so point four of the ordinance is that it will not impede the normal and orderly development and improvement of other property in the area. Um, so the property and the all of our neighbors around there and impeding their ordinary development improvement in it's not really encroaching, but I do understand the privacy issue and whatnot. Um, so I think the 3D rendering would help answer some of that a little bit and um, help us get to the heart of that. So it's just it's we're lacking a little bit of information to help make us this this judgment call in at least in in my mind. Um, so that's kind of where I'm at with this discussion so far. send an email to council. [snorts] >> Yeah. Without belaboring the point, I guess I it was interesting. Um [snorts] it it would have been best to have clearer evidence in the record uh so that we can evaluate the factors that you were talking about. But I think some of the actual the size scope of the problem issues go to the adverse impact factors. Um about something more than anecdotal about is the capacity of the lot being exceeded ever? It sounds like it. If if so by how much approximately just like 10 or 50 or 100 I mean and then how frequently and I think if we and then and then if we had a clearer sense of how much the overflow I'm calling it overflow spilling out in the neighborhood is in terms of cars how often it happens. we could then I think better assess whether the solution is tailored to the problem or the proposal is tailor tailored to the problem and whether um or whether it could be more tailored to the problem by having one row of additional parking stalls instead of two or some of the things we talked about um and can and could better evaluate that adverse impact factor. Um it is a little bit confusing that this this group kind of anecdotally says frequently we're we're running out of capacity. the folks who are living there say maybe a couple times a year. It's it's just anecdotal. I don't know. I don't know. Um although we did have a pizza place that was proposed very close by and the prospect of sometimes people parking in the neighborhood caused extraordinary concern. So I'm a little bit biased at thinking that maybe it isn't every day. I don't know. Just but but every little pocket of this neighborhood is different. It's all just to say that I'm having a hard time evaluating whether some of the adver some of the impacts that expanding surface parking will probably have um or could cause are are reasonable or justified or not just in light of not having a clear enough sense of the scope and frequency of the problem. And and personally, [snorts] if if we did have a clearer sense of this is how frequently it's over overfilling and by this approximate amount, I would be in inclined to vote in favor of additional parking that would solve that problem. But I don't think that I'm at a place where I feel like I can do it now because I have some significant doubts about whether 50 or however many it was extra is is actually needed um to solve the problem without causing some unintended consequences. So that was repetitive a little bit, but but that's just kind of how I see it. I might suggest since I'm I'm sensing the commission is wanting more information before it makes a decision, I just conferred with the applicant they would be okay if we were to table this and come back with the some of the information that you're looking for. Procedurally, how that would work is we have a public hearing scheduled with the city council if this is agreeable. Um, [clears throat] but we don't have to hold that. What we would do is have the city council continue the public hearing to a future date and then this come back with that additional information. You've closed the public hearing, but we could still present the new information and take written comments from the neighbors. I would just throw that out as a talking point for you. >> Yeah. Knowing that, uh, Bonnie, if you'd like to still make some comments as well as Commissioner Felt and myself, >> and then we might have to circle back if I mean, if we do go about this, we probably have recommendations of specific things we'd like to see. >> Okay. So yeah, Commissioner Padilla. >> Um, okay. So I I came into this with um a couple of assumptions um or my thinking anyway was uh this is a this school is very unusual in terms of its traffic patterns in terms of the fact that it it it's not in um on main streets like all the other schools. It's not it's not as easily accessible. Um, another assumption that I had was that the neighbors would be delighted about this because they would um they would no longer have cars parked in front of their homes. Um and then a third assumption that I made or or maybe it's not an assumption I think it's it's anecdotally um it's more of an observation is that um as we evolve as a community and um we need we see more parents at school during school hours and I'm not talking about you know the once every other month when there's some kind of event and then the parking necessarily has to spill out in the neighborhood. But um just in terms of during the course of the day, I know there's I'm not at Highlands um very often, but I'm at I'm at other schools and it makes it's a big deal when you're coming and you're dropping stuff off and oftentimes you have lots of stuff with you which makes a bicycle or anything else, you know, unworkable. and you want to get as close to the school as possible, whether or not you're doing art or helping out or you're an assistant. And for that reason, I thought, oh, well, more parking is a good idea. And if and I also thought, okay, this is just an extension, sort of an extension of a conditional use permit. So, you know, they're not asking for anything kind of new and different. Um but then then that goes to what everybody else has said in terms of you know we here usually see um lots of math around a request for more parking. So that that would be my request if we're going to see this. Um you know how did you come up with the number of parking spaces um and the fact that you know was there discussion I mean none of us asked was there discussion with the neighborhood because there is clearly you know um non-aggreement here. So, I would like to see um you also go out to the neighborhood and and get some kind of um um either explain yourselves or or the drainage mitigation or something like that. So, that's my two cents. >> Thank you, Bonnie. >> Okay. I'm going to reiterate a lot of this um but I'll try and make it pretty quick. You had mentioned the city can't make any um add to any water issues, but I also think obviously there's some alleviation of some existing conditions um that needs to be done with this and we need to understand that a little bit more before we can move forward with this. And I'm going to ditto Bonnie on the talking with the neighbors. I I've been in a couple of other situations with the city where I don't think staff and residents and council are all talking together. And I think this is a situation where the schools and the staff and the residents have to talk together. And I know everybody doesn't have a lot of time, but I think we've wasted a lot of time here by a lot of people by not talking together. So, I think that needs to um happen. Um, you know, the Adina school system does the snow plowing, so I think because the staffs are relatively close, they could probably figure some of that out. So, I don't know if the 4 foot fence right at the cars would help or not. I'm sure it doesn't make any anything easy, but that could be in the mix of the discussion among all the parties. Um, I live across from two schools and when the events happen in those schools and they spill out on Grimes, I'm always like, "Oh, it's the time of the play." And it just makes me so happy because it remembers I remember when my daughter did that or when there's the Morningside women's club across the street and I'm like, "Oh, it's the time for and it's just a passing of the seasons for me." So, I don't mind that. It's just for a day. I have to be a little extra careful going out of my drive, but that's fine. Um, so I don't the event parking doesn't register with me as well. I had heard 173 from the business. 128 staff, 15 volunteer, 30 parents, 178 parking spaces. Um, I think there's a lot of ways you could probably make that happen. I could I couldn't quite get the count on this one either. So, those are my comments. >> Thank you. I'll share a few comments of my own. Um, [clears throat] appreciate all the comments from the commission and the the community. I think Commissioner Dave brought it home well with focusing on the conditions of the the request that at this point I at least would be the grounds of like what I can't support currently. It's important to know that. Um, but I do want to offer up maybe a couple specifics to this. I mean, there definitely is a problem and there's other problems that are nearby that aren't really a part of this request, but could be potentially addressed. And I think even what what you see that would actually solve if drained to the south, solve a lot of the drainage kind of running through that gully as it goes down. Um, but I think if the request was a bit more modest like the previous ones or like the neighbor, I think most people would be in favor. I mean, this is this is just my experience of using this site for the last six years straight, you know, with my children going to school there. And pull up Google Maps Street View, like it's full and it's the middle of a school day. I mean whether or not like the residents see that like parents like myself like I'm going there tomorrow to read a book to my daughter, right? That happens quite a bit more than you would expect, which is unusual. I still find a spot. So that's kind of why like I do know there's a problem at times, but is it this big of a problem that then could create other problems next door? or is it this big of a problem that could prevent problems next door or kind of be a co-solution? Um, I'm I I just I'm not at the point to support this, although I support adding parking there. So, I mean, I think we could quickly go around if you have anything additional to say or maybe we just open it up to Are people good with tableabling this instead of making a decision tonight? I see most nods of agreement. Bonnie, you similar. I don't think we need Do we need to vote on like continuing something? We do. Okay. So, would we do that and then we can make recommendations now or should we make kind of go through recommendations? >> Part of your motion. >> Okay. >> What what you'd like to see? So maybe let's go down the queue and just get a [clears throat] get an idea of what specificly we would like to be considered or be addressed to provide more information to be able to I guess respond confidently in whether these conditions are met for a conditional use permit. We could just go one by one and just is there anything specific and then at least the applicant team can take notes. >> Sure. Um, again, it was mentioned a couple times that I don't think we have much say in do they need the parking. They're asking for the parking, so we're supposed to respond to that. So, I I'm not going to comment on that. Uh, communication, too. I mean, it would have been great had they communicated, but it doesn't sound like much happened. Again, that's not our purview up here. Um, the the conditions I would suggest is to ensure a proper storm water plan be submitted and that they keep keep, you know, the storm water that is on site on site or in the underground. Um, it sounded like they had a plan for that. We just didn't see much of it. Um, fencing is a I I'm not sure that fencing should be addressed. Is it is it wanted? Is it necessary? The fencing I see would do two things with the headlights. Um, but also potentially forcing them to put snow elsewhere uh could be a benefit. Um, so potentially fencing if that's something necessary which would deal with the headlight concerns. Um, and then just the the storm water thing would take care of the erosion along with the trees. So, that's really all I have. So, I'm talking fencing potentially. Yes. No. Uh, storm water plan and uh I guess this the Yeah, fencing takes care of the snow plowing and the and then the soil erosion is it's really just two things. Fencing and storm water for me. The only thing I would change would be I'd broaden the fencing question to modeling the neighbor experience, the geometry of the neighboring experience so we know whether there's enough mitigation uh enough light and noise mitigation. you need a few things I would add to this is some kind of overflow average overflow numbers just what's what's bleeding out into the neighborhood that number look like that's one two how often does that occur so is this like a once or twice a year situation or is this like a three times a month situation I think that'll give us a sense of the scope of the problem and then I think um some kind of indication that some alignment has occurred or a meeting with the residents and the school, you know, even if it's just a session where everybody just gets to voice it and someone captures some kind of takeaway to just show that we've done some kind of engagement. I think normally we would send letters out within a certain radius. I don't know if that happened with this, but if there could be something where the school could say, "Yeah, you know, we connected with neighbors. We had this meeting on this day. Here was some of the feedback." That would go a long way in just kind of bringing that alignment a little bit closer. So those three three things I would say. Um yeah, I'm pretty much in agreement with all that. Just a 3D rendering of of the what this actually looks like from multiple perspectives. I think just to help people picture in their mind's eye a little bit. And then just on the storm water piece, it just would be just a more so there is a plan submitted, right? They did submit a plan. I just would like somebody either whether it be the applicant team or city engineering to walk through that in more detail. So that's kind of the hard what I'd like to see. >> Yeah. Same [snorts] as everyone else. Just more proof of the scope of the problem and then and then showing that this proposed solution is tailored to the to the to the demonstrated scope. whether people meet and talk about it outside. I mean, I kind of deferred others about you can choose how you want to deal with that, but but I'm not going to be here to vote on it anyway. So, um, so I don't there's nothing else to add. I think for me, I just want to add I don't know how to say it. Um, some sort of plan for addressing our climate action plan because that's part of our comp plan. I one of the um lines on this was, you know, this is schools being in residential zones are part of our comp plan and um so I want to see how the climate part of this corresponds with our our climate action plan. Commissioner Padilla, >> um, as I mentioned earlier, just reiterate, um, some conversation with the residents around there and a calculation as to the number of of spots. So, that's it for me. >> I guess uh, for me, oo, I think just in general that conversation, if it's just like an open house type of thing with that also includes parents. Um, I mean part of this problem, as we heard, the root of it is from complaints from parents, not necessarily neighbors. I mean, it's the users of the site that demonstrate this problem. I've experienced it. And I would be prepared also if the scope of this is less, which I think it is. Um, from like an intensity like to this just feels like too intense of a solution for like what I've experienced there and what makes sense to be a good neighbor. Um, I'd say be prepared with a potential solution that's more modest. And I think one of the good ideas suggested was a one-way diagonal parking heading north just from a circulation perspective. Like if if there's only 20 to 30 spots needed, have a have a solution reflecting that. And I think a good one is just the diagonal parking toward the school and facing north. So then when you circulate, you're doing right-hand turns and you're not crossing traffic patterns. So just be prepared if you find out that from the need of this if the the school district's willing to meet in the middle, as you can probably hear, um be prepared with what that could look like. And and I think I mean when you look at this site I mean there is a current problem with drainage as that gully slopes. So like I there is an opportunity to solve more than just what's going on on the site. And I think to demonstrate that better just shows some good due diligence that we really expect out of any applicant. A lot of times someone demonstrates they've talked to the neighbors they're not going to make the impact. And it seems here that what was proposed was like adding quite a bit of impact to the neighbors. So it just all right. I think the point is be labored. Good. I feel good about that. So I guess we need to make a recommendation to continue this. I How do we word this? I don't think I've ever done this. Yeah, just a motion to table the request depending on I'll work with the applicant on dates. It would either be March 11th or >> we have to be specific on a date or we can just table >> because you've closed the public hearing. You wouldn't have to be specific. I've got some contact um with some of the residents. I'll make sure that you're all aware of when that next meeting is. Um, >> I I can I can work that out with some of you that I do have contacts with and you can always contact me too. >> And there there is a sign posted at the entrance to the school. >> Yeah. In your front yard. So that that that usually is the visual indicator of any projects that are there's a number. There's I think a website right on it. the it's the planning phone number. Yeah. >> Okay. Goes right to you. [laughter] >> Uh so we we this is just to table it indefinitely and then take just the general feedback that we said. I mean that's we don't need to add that to this table as it's just been included into >> you could even table it to the next meeting and if we're not ready to go for the next meeting we have it on the agenda and we continue it again. That might be the safe way to do it. Well, then it just sets people >> I'm still going to be in contact with with um Yeah, >> sorry. What were you saying? >> I just that you know that um there's an email that goes to all of the city council and they definitely listen to your concerns and they will get back to you. So you just it's city council Edina city council org. >> I I don't know it off the top of my head, but >> it's right it's right on the website and it goes to the city manager and all four city council people. >> Again, I haven't done this. So, do we just make this non-specific? What's best for all parties, especially the applicant team because they are proposing this? There's probably budgets and decisions that need to be made to do this stuff in the summer. You know, >> what would be best to try to push till the next meeting? Do you think you could get some of this stuff by then or is it two meetings from now like a month? >> Are you okay if I come up here? >> Sure. Yeah. >> I was just going to say I'm hearing a request I'm not from school district but I'm hearing a request for communication with the neighbors. Um and I think to not try to rush that through. I'd rather I'd actually rather you not put a deadline on it so that we could get that done well and to not like force it to happen. People couldn't be there. So, and instead of like saying the next meeting for sure, I would rather it be indefinite and then we could coordinate like a date that works for people, right? So, that would be I think the request of the school district, but obviously it's up to the commission. >> May I try it? >> Yeah, >> I think that's a good idea. >> Okay. >> So, we would it be acceptable? >> She's talking in the city. >> She's it's it's part of the applicant team. Like it's it's Yeah, it's like I could go through like the very formal Yeah. No, I could go through the very formal specifics of the process, but >> Okay. >> She she's not presenting. She is she is >> she is trying to figure out a way so that they can talk to the residents and then find the time to come back to us. That's what she's trying to do. >> I was asked. >> Yes. And so we did have public comment and you can I email city council once a week. >> Okay. So >> and and I would add too that there will be a public hearing at the city council. So that's another opportunity to speak. >> Are we good tableabling this? >> Yeah, I make a motion to table this to a future planning commission meeting. >> We have a second. >> Second. >> Second. >> All those in favor say I. I. I. opposed. All right. So move this request is being tabled to a future date. Thank you everyone. Thank you for your participation. Thank you for the presentation. Oh, I got cut off. Thank you. Thank you everyone. [panting] I guess my green light turned red. [snorts] Okay, so that was it for public hearings tonight and we have no reports and recommendations. So we move to chair and member comments and then staff comments. Any I know Commissioner Smith attended something recently. You shared some communication about it. I didn't know if you wanted to share tonight about that too. >> Yeah. >> So yeah, thank you. Uh in this chair member comment um section here, I just wanted to bring up two points. Um, so last I think it was last Thursday or Friday. Last Friday I believe I attended what's called the municipal um legislative council meeting and this was a meeting um that occurs this was the the first time uh for me joining it. I think it happens every quarter or so where they bring together city leaders across the region. So you think all the way from, you know, uh, Minnotonka to Lakeville, Woodbury, all these different areas, and mayors show up, um, city council folks show up, um, legislators who represent those districts show up, and it's a meeting where they talk about what's the legislative priorities for the year essentially. And so I had the pleasure of attending. Um, Mayor Hovlin was the host for that meeting and I sat at a table with uh our city manager Scott Neil and our city representatives as well. And it was just a really great collegial environment. And so the topic uh of conversation at that time was about housing and that this region is lacking uh affordable housing across the board. But I think we're short over 100,000 homes for the state of Minnesota. And so we had a really great panel, a cross-sectional panel of Met Council representatives, um, city planning representatives and also um developers and they had some really great takeaways. I think I sent an email out um to to this team. But the main takeaway I wanted to share uh with this group is that we have our comprehensive plan update coming up and that's recommended that we use that opportunity in that plan to help address uh uh more housing development and also housing affordability. And so as we go into the uh comp plan um process, here's where I think we could try to make decisions that would make building affordable houses uh much more easier for the city. So really great um panel, so much in-depth conversation. They covered housing was like the main issue. Um, a sub issue that definitely came up too across the cities was um the impact of uh metro surge and how that's still impacting families today. Um, I won't go into all those details, but it's still a thing that's affecting families and um, leverage the current infrastructure that we have in the city and nonprofits to help support, but I just wanted to share that the the comp plan update might be our opportunity to really address the housing shortage um, in the city. And there was a 14point uh document by another group that uh shared things that we could address things like ADUs, you know, get those passed. Um expanding and making smaller lot sizes, for example, is another one. So, there's a whole host of things that we could do going forward to make housing more affordable um and more abundant for Edina residents. The the other point I wanted to uh bring up um is that uh Commissioner uh uh Bonnie and I uh we connected and we started to work on our work plan item which is the food truck ordinance um study. And so we're collaborating on that and it's been really fun. and the the areas that we're focused on right now is how do we get as much information uh from key stakeholders that we've identified. One key stakeholder for us would be city staff. So, you know, fire, police, the health department, economic development, what's their experiences with the food truck issue in the dinina and if we could um uh get some data on their experiences doing that. So, we're off to the races there. I feel pretty confident that we could just move forward and connect with those leaders. I don't think we need to have director T kind of jump in and introduce us, but I think we can kind of start uh doing those interviews and collecting that information. Um the other part is we certainly would need to interview and and and discuss our other stakeholder groups would be, you know, of course, food truck vendors themselves and also restaurants. And so we have a whole script that we've put together of how to engage and an email to introduce and get questions going. And the one request that I had tonight was if we could get any uh maybe some student commissioner volunteers who would like to partner with us and doing some interviews with um uh uh our restauranteers or our food truck vendors just to collect information. you know, their experiences with having food trucks close to your property or their experiences with deploying food trucks within the city and how that's working out. So, you don't have to answer tonight. Uh you can certainly find me and uh we love to rope you guys in. Hopefully, we could get this going. Um we we really want to kick things off in April and hopefully that be enough time for us to collect all the information and and put a put some kind of initial review for this team to uh to take a look at. So, I don't know, uh, Bonnie, if you wanted to to add anything to to to that at all. >> No, just that I think that we, and when I say we, I mean you, um, developed a really good plan and, um, I look forward to, you know, working all aspects of it and, um, I we think we should, you know, we're planning on hit hitting a ground running so next month. So, so far, you've done a terrific job, Quincy. Thank you. Thank you guys. And yeah, Commissioner Day. [clears throat] >> Just real quick, um, Commissioner Hanaman Alky and I met today um with with Addison and looked at some talked through some of the results of the online survey for the zoning code. Um, so there was a survey that went out. It was open from November 19th through February 5th. uh we you know looked at that kind of talked through some of the details there. There was 205 responses which I thought was a good response rate from the city um for an online survey of the of of this sort. Um [snorts] whole host of information there. I won't go into all the different points but just to say that it was it was interesting and then kind of go just wanted to highlight something off of what you said Commissioner Smith around the comprehensive plan. So that is, you know, as we talk about the zoning update and everything, we did um talk about the fact that we can't make zoning changes that would con create conflict with our current comprehensive plan before we would adopt a new one. So if we were to create zones uh residential zones that in that uh created conflict with density requirements per our comprehensive plan, we can't do that. The Met Council said that's that's a no-go. You got to have the comprehensive plan kind of first. So, just as for everybody's aware of that as we go through the zoning update and stuff like that and how that pairs with the comprehensive comprehensive plan, sorry. Um, but yeah, so more to come. I'm sure we'll share some of those results too as we go through the process. >> Can I build on that for say just one other thing to add to that? We're going to probably be having a work session in about two months to start to talk about the work on the zoning project. >> Thank you. Any other comments? >> I wasn't going to say anything, but I will. Um, I just came across the gentleman that we saw maybe six months ago, eight months ago uh for an a uh ADU uh variance. Um he's just getting underway under construction. So, the permitting process took a little bit longer than I think he he had hoped, but it is moving forward. So, I don't know if there were issues with getting permits. I'm not exactly sure what the situation was, but just that didn't once we approved it, I assume that was next step was permit, then construction, but it took uh it took a significant amount of time to get get things rolling. So, just just update everybody on the fact that it's it's now under construction. Thank you. That was over on 44th Street, just off of 44th Street, east of the uh the railroad. >> Thank you for that. Anything else? I'd just say one big final thank you to Commissioner Borenstein. Job well done. [applause] >> En enjoy your uh free evenings with other things now on Wednesdays. And uh >> yeah, only update from the city council actions would be the um the Miss [clears throat] Amigos uh daycare on 50th that was approved by the city council. That's it. Oh, yeah. Sorry. [laughter] Uh we have a new staff member that I'd like to introduce. Um Miriam is has taken Liz's role and so we welcome her. She comes to us from the communications department. So very familiar with the city and can navigate a lot of our programs that we have in our department. So So welcome. >> Well, one final. >> Yeah, there we go. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. So >> I meeting's been adjourned. Thank you everyone. >> There we go.