like to welcome everyone to the November 12th 2025 city Mesa Planning and Zoning Board public hearing. We will start with the roll call with a roll call. Chair Ays is absent. Vice Chair Peterson is here. Board member Pitcher >> here. >> Board member Montes is absent. Board member Blakeman >> here. >> Board member Carpenter >> here. And board member Farnsworth >> here. The uh we will begin the meeting with a consent agenda where items will be read and all uh acted upon and voted in one motion as currently with with speaker and request cards received. Item 4B, the Greenfield multifamily project ZON21-000066 is not on consent. That will be uh a a separate presentation and public hearing will be held after the consent vote. All other items are currently on consent. If there's anyone who has any other items that they're they're wanting to speak on, uh please fill out a blue card. Is that any other items? Yeah. Go ahead, >> Vice Chair. Just to be clear, it's a I have agenda item 4B off of consent and 4 C. 4C is is back on. I'm going to add a note to the uh Yeah, I'm going to add a note and then I'll leave that on. >> Uh vice chair 5A. We need to pull off consent. >> We're good on 5A. 5 stay on consent. >> Yeah. Yeah. For Yeah, we talked through if I'm my um um board member Blakeman, if you would just maybe on the record address whether or not you are going to recuse. Um, so we're going to keep that on consent for voting. >> She's determined that she did not have a conflict. >> So, so after the consent is read before we vote, we'll put that on the record. >> Is that that works? >> I think that it's on the record. >> It's on the record now. >> Call it on the record. So, I'm going to >> uh All right. So, for the consent agenda items, board member Farnsworth will read those items and then we will have a vote. Board member Farnsworth. >> Thank you. Items on the consent agenda. Item 2 A, minutes from the October 22nd, 2025 planning and zoning board meeting. Item 3A, case Z25-0000599 AWS Phoenix or PHX062, approximately 43 acres, located approximately 1,840 ft west of the southwest corner of East Elliot Road and South Signal But Road with a major site plan modification to allow for an electric substation. staff recommendation approval with conditions with the additional condition that prior to submittal of a building permit application. Uh there's a uh they recorded a cross access agreement for the secondary drive off Mosquite from parcel 314-10-777 to 313-28-798 or submittal um of an administrative site plan. And if no agreement uh is reached, um the applicant shall submit a site plan modification to remove access to mosquite. Item 3B, case Z25-00827, Cadence DU uh 50 DU3 multi-residents, 17 acres located at the southwest corner of Chrisman Road and Williamsfield Road site plan review for a 302 unit multi multiple residence development. Staff re recommendation is continued to the December uh 10th 2025 planning and zoning board meeting. Item 4 A case Z24-00998 623 South Mesa Drive 6 acres located approximately 1,420 ft south of the southeast corner of East Broadway Road and South Mesa Drive. Reszone from multiple residences two to multiple residences four with a bonus intensity overlay and site plan review for a 15 unit multiple residence development staff recommendation approval with conditions. Item 4 C, case Z23-00365 Fujifilm pad expansion 61.6 acres located approximately 1,000 ft north of the northwest corner of East Pos Road and South Mountain Road. Reszone from heavy industrial with a planned area development overlay and agricultural to heavy industrial with a new planned area development overlay and site plan modification to allow for the expansion of an existing industrial facility. Staff recommendation approval with conditions. Item 4 D Z25-0000309 Dutch Bros AZ1618.8 acres located approximately 560 ft south of the southeast corner of East Elliot Road and South Power Road. Major site plan modification and modification of condition number one of ordinance 5781 to allow for a coffee shop with drive-thru facilities. Staff recommendation approval conditions. Item 4E case Z25-00598 AWS PHX065 71 acres located approximately 1,300 ft west of the southwest corner of East Pacos Road and South Signal But Road. Council use permit to allow for a major utility staff recommendation approval with conditions. Item 5A. Uh Mesa connected uh discuss and make a recommendation to city council on the adoption of Mesa connected transit oriented development plan staff recommendation adoption. Item 6A, case Z25-0000210, the Lincoln 9.1 acres located approximately 340 ft west of the southwest corner of Hampton Avenue and Chrisman Road. Reszone from planned employment park with a planned area development overlay to a multiple residence two with a planned area development overlay. Special use permit and site plan review to allow for 113 lot attached single residence development. Staff recommendation continued to the December 10th, 2025 planning and zoning board meeting. And item 6B 025-0000313, the Lincoln 9.1 acres located 340 ft west of the southwest corner of Hampton Avenue and Chrisman Road minor general plan amendment to change the place type from urban center to urban residential. Staff recommendation continue to December 10th, 2025 planning and zoning board meeting. >> Thank you, board member Farnsworth. And to add to the public record for item >> 4C, the Fujifilm P80 expansion, uh, Mr. David Jarvis, address 5929 East Duncan Street, has noted uh that he is in favor and supports this item. And with that, is there a motion? >> Motion to approve. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? Board member Pitcher. >> Yes. >> Thank you. With that, there are five five uh yes votes, two absentes, and the motion carries. Now we will go to item 4B the Greenfield multifamily uh project and with uh for for the board where we just had staff presentation in the study session. Is there a desire for staff presentation again or or should we go to applicant presentation from here? Okay. Um, so if that's uh that's okay, Jennifer, we'll have we'll we'll go to the um applicant for their presentation and then we'll open the public hearing from there. Is the applicant present? >> Hello, planning and zoning board members. Um, members of the planning and zoning board, my name is Dave Richens and I'm a renter and uh, I live at uh, 11254 East Utah Avenue in Mesa. Um, it's fun to be back in these chambers. It's well, I didn't get to serve in these chambers, but I love what the city's done here. Um, uh, even though I'm a renter, I've also owned homes and, you know, in the United States, 70% of our households are single or twoerson households. in Mesa, 35% of people rent and so there's a need for rental housing in Mesa for sure. Um, we need to start spreading around the city. We have a clustered in certain parts of the city and we have some opportunities to move this around the city a little bit. Um, I got involved with this project because our award-winning local architecture firm, Atmosphere Architects, has really tried to unlock the value of underutilized properties and parcels in Mesa. these triangle-shaped parcels along major arterials and canals are those um they've successfully developed several of them and this is another project to come before you. Um we have a few slides to kind of set the context for this project. So uh the first one you see here um uh will illustrate uh is there a pointer of some kind? Is it this? Okay. All right. Um, see off of the site parcel here is in the yellow triangle and uh the egress uh comes off of Greenfield and the emergency eress is uh closer to Mlen uh by uh on on the north part of the parcel. The only access to the joining neighborhood is on Hackmore, which is here south of the canal. Um the site context here is is very interesting. the these these this is a little under two acres and it makes this kind of parcel very difficult to develop. Let me move my notes over here. Who will live in this kind of unit type? Um uh we we know that there'll be Hold on, let me find my note here real quick. Uh it it'll be the people from the adjacent neighborhoods will likely end up in some of these units. the kids and the grandkids of the neighborhoods to the west and east. They like to stay in these neighborhoods and live near their parents. And we're finding more and more demand for for housing that steps down just a little bit from a big single family home to a town home style. And so this neighborhood decidedly lacks that type of housing type. And so when the children and grandchildren of some of the neighbors start to age and they want to stay nearby, they don't have a lot of housing choice. it's either a big single family home in the hundreds of upper hundreds of thousands and low millions uh or they have to move out of the neighborhood. So, we think this is a good step change and an appropriate step change for this neighborhood. Um also, uh empty nesters will be folks that uh will may want to trade down from a 4,000t house to a these are all threebedroom, two and two and a half bath units. Uh and it might be a really nice step down for somebody who wants to downsize a little bit. Um, in context of the site, there there's a lot going on out here. Uh, if you look to the north, there's Falcon Field. We have noise that happens from, uh, the airport and and a variety of other activities that happen in this area. And so, uh, you'll see Gene Autri Park with all their pickle ball courts here. Just north of the site is Forpaw Pet Resort. So, I imagine you get a few little dogs barking in there from time to time. And then just north of that and on this industrial industrially zoned parcel is uh a a gravel operation for decorative rock and gravel. And so I would imagine that makes a little bit of noise as well. Um as for the project here in particular, uh there are some setback reductions getting asked for here and just wanting to set context. This gets asked for frequently and they're granted frequently in context. So places that would that have an alley adjacent uh a canal in this instance a freeway uh the often times those setbacks get asked to be reduced because you have a natural setback with a natural feature adjacent to that. So it's not something that's unusual to be asked for and we'll talk a little bit more about that later. Um we did some sighteline studies here and then we can refer back to this in a bit. And then of course the the project itself from the interior. Um, we want to address some of the concerns that have been expressed for future residents of this project and we really appreciate the neighbors really being thoughtful about not only how it will affect them but how it will affect the residents that will live here in the future. Uh, mainly because they're probably going to be people that they know. Uh this project is estim so when it comes to traffic this project is estimated to generate under 360 car trips per day. The assumptions there that there's 30 units. Each unit has two cars and they will all take approximately six car trips per day. So it's a it's a pretty low number in comparison with Greenfield Road which has 19,600 car trips per day happening on Greenfield Road. Um that was according to a 2022 city of Mesa traffic study. The ingress ingress and egress is solely off Greenfield Road. There's no access pedestrian or auto into the neighborhood to the west or to the east and really no reason for residents of this complex to drive into that neighborhood unless they're going to visit their parents or their grandparents in that area. So, uh there's nothing to drive through to. uh even some of the churches are on main arterials and uh you know there's there's a high prevalence of LDS folks in this neighborhood and the the the LDS stake is a whole different stake for this parcel compared to the single family homes and so they would likely be going to church buildings to the east rather than the west. Um the the design of this project doesn't allow for any cut through traffic through the project so there's little reason to assume that we're going to have a lot of cut through traffic. Uh, as for crime, the there's been numerous studies about multif family and crime. A lot of times there's a perception of crime in multif family because there's a multiple units at a single address. And so maybe something uh happened there uh in times past and so it kind of aggregates whereas in a neighborhood you might have one incident at a single family home and then maybe two streets away there's another incident in that single family home. And so what studies have found is it's really a comparable crime rate depending on the neighborhood context in which it's found. Um but the this uh with only 30 luxury style units here, the likelihood of crime at the complex is quite low. The project proposed is going to be gated, preventing crime from the neighborhood to the west and east from entering the project. So the residents should feel pretty safe. In addition to that, uh the project will participate in crime-free multi-ousing to further protect our residents from potential crime outside of the project and the complexes also utilize crime prevention through environmental design, also known as SEPTED, in its design to make sure there's more eyes on the interior and exterior of the project. So, we're actually going to bring more eyeballs out onto that canal. So, if there are issues on that canal, the likelihood of being seen is higher. Therefore, crime is less likely to occur because they don't know if somebody's watching them. So, they go on to someplace else. Um, in addition to all that, there's a moat or the consolidated canal between the neighborhood to the west and uh to the project. And so, it forms a natural barrier between uh those neighborhoods and the particular project. There's been a lot said about viewshed and we'll pull this up while we talk about that. Uh we feel the setbacks in the buffers will provide adequate livability conditions for our residents uh in this proposed project. Notably, there have been no complaints brought up to the more modest neighborhood to the east of the project across Greenfield Road. Our residents have an over 100 ft buffer across the consolidated canal. And if you look at this diagram from building to building, it's about 150 feet. So, if you stand here and you look out this window back here and you see this art piece across in by the light rail, that's about 100 ft. When you get across the street onto the uh uh Mesa uh art center campus, that's about 150 ft. So, that kind of helps understand the context and how far from where you sit, Mr. Peterson, to that space. It kind of gives you an idea how far away that's going to be. Um like uh uh our residents have an 100 foot buffer across the consolidated canal, no pedestrian or vehicular connection to the neighborhood to the west. And the sideline study found limited opportunities for neighborhood properties to view our project residents uh because of the limited views. There's trees, there's other things. And so we feel our residents will be able to have a certain amount of privacy from the neighborhood to the west uh and also to the east uh on those balcony features that you see in there. Uh we really appreciate the that the neighborhood to the west uh you know we know that they'll respect the privacy of our residents as well just like it'll happen vice versa. Um noise has been brought up uh on several occasions. The project will provide a buffer for the neighborhood from the street noise of Greenfield Road. So folks that live there's about three homes that are on the other side of the two-story projects across the canal and those that building massing will make Greenfield Road less noisy to those homes. Uh likely sources of noise for this project residents as we looked in this map here uh are Gatri Park which has pickle ball. We all know how loud loud pickle ball is, but we all love to play anyway. Um, the Forpaws Pet Resort, the gravel operation in Falcon Field. We appreciate the concerns of the neighborhood to the west about noise for the project's future residents and bringing a warning to them. Uh, the neighborhood to the west has been living with these sources of noise for many, many years, and we appreciate that. They have a concern for their future neighbors. The last thing uh that's uh we we see a lot is uh complaints about property values. Um there has never been any evidence that adjacent land uses of similar nature affect property values negatively. Um in fact, if you take a quick look on realtor.com at some of the houses that are adjacent, you see a huge appreciation home values with one home being purchased in 2010 for $500,000 with an estimated value of 1.8 million now. So, I'm not I don't really think that property values are a huge concern for this neighborhood in any appreciable way. Uh there's also been numerous studies that have illustrated that multif family going into a neighborhood doesn't decrease property values, but sometimes it affects salvailability. So, we we will say that sometimes a new land use coming into a neighborhood might make a house somebody pause on it, but then another buyer might not. So those variations occur in just about any neighbor youood you have whether it's multif family or commercial or industrial. Um there are numerous examples in Mesa and Gilbert of multif family and single family right next to each other or across canals. A few of those are the Avana Gardens in Gilbert at Valve Vista Lakes, Copper Point Apartments at Brown and Stapely on the Consolidated Canal, Sands Apartments on Main Street and Gilbert and Lindsay, Southern Point Casitas at Southern and Lindsay, and a commercial example would be the shops at Dana Landing on Baseline. All of them have less than 100 foot buffers to their adjacent projects with windows looking out into the adjacent neighborhoods. Now, you know, there's been some concerns expressed about that and yeah, we get that, but generally people don't stand at their windows gazing into their neighbors yard. It's and I don't expect anybody from the adjacent neighborhood to do the same thing in reverse. And so, people respect each other's privacy. It's just comes with the the course. So, in conclusion, we think this project is welldesigned by a a local award-winning architecture firm. the density is is low. 30 units does not bring any kind of critical mass for traffic overloading the schools uh or property values. It's just not big enough to cause any of those concerns. And you have one of the best architecture firms in the valley designing it. So, we feel that it will likely increase property values by getting rid of the blight of a vacant lot. Um with that, happy to answer any questions you might have about the project. Well, former council member Richens, thank you for your service to the city and thank you for your presentation. Is the uh questions from the board for for Dave at this time? >> Yep. >> So, maybe two quick questions. If I'm seeing correctly in the site plan, are there no balconies on that west or canal frontage of the units? Is that correct? >> That is incorrect. There are balconies facing the canal. >> Are balconies. Okay. And then maybe if you could clarify a little bit more some of your comments around the the design for crime prevention and safety. One of the curiosities I had was if there's any exploration around a either an easement or some sort of agreement with the um canal utility owner for some sort of landscape access for some sort of trees or vegetation >> to help mitigate some of the sight lines into the adjacent neighborhood. Yeah, that all got worked out and I think it was explained downstairs that uh additional trees just in the context won't thrive there. You can't uh plant them in the canal right away either. Uh and so uh there a lot of the residents on the other side of the canal have mature trees that are pretty good sized uh as as part of that. So >> okay. So I guess just make sure I understand the point correctly there there either was not or it is not possible to have some sort of an easement or agreement for placement of trees on that canal side. >> I don't believe there is >> uh yeah uh Dave so just so I can double check here. So everything that's on the canal rightway or abuing yet those are going to be twotory. Is that correct? >> Yes sir. >> Okay. And then the second question I have, I'm a little confused with the space between what appears to be the the back wall and then the canal right ofway. Is there a gap there? >> Yeah, there remember there are private yards uh that >> do the private yards extend to the right ofway or is there a a community? Yes, >> they do extend to the rightway. Okay. >> All right, that's all I had. Jimmy >> board member pitcher. >> No, my my concern is is the uh not not so much the buffer. I mean 150 ft's a long way across, but my my concern is the uh the lack of trees on that west side. And I I know that you you probably can't do it on the on the canal side, but I'm just wondering if if you could do it within the the um the backyards of these properties. I mean, it said down below that there's a spot, but are it sounds like it's up to the residents to put in trees and so forth to buffer that. >> Uh, Chairman Pearson, um, the the idea with the spot is to allow patio trees and that kind of, you know, herbology, I guess, out on their back patios. Um the landscaping was subject to a long negotiation with staff and a long negotiation with SRP and all of these folks uh who have done this many times have got this is what was allowed and so we this is what we were able to come to and trees just weren't allowed so not not sure what to do with that. >> Does that answer your question board member features weren't allowed by whom? by by SRP or the staff or >> and it's hard just to correct RWCD is the is this SRP or RWCD on >> this is our WCD. Yeah, that's right. Thank you. Thank you for correct that correction. >> I I'm just trying to clarify where the the denial came from. >> Well, it it was my I don't know, Tim, do you want to address that? This is Uber designer. >> Hello. Um, Jacob Kluff, address 323 South Pioneer. Uh, worked on the design of this project. And so because the private patios are abuing the ride ofway, the uh uh the landscape crews wouldn't have a way of accessing it from the property without going through the residents homes. Uh and so it was decided that we wouldn't show anything on our landscape plan. Um but we are providing these host bibs so that residents can plant and maintain their own landscaping features. >> Anything else board member pitcher? >> No, thank you. Okay, just a a question on that and maybe Jacob before you you step down the uh so with the is there then a uh CCNR condition or other condition for the residents to have uh some sort of landscape material in those yard areas or what is what what would be the the the motivation for them to to put trees in that area. >> Yeah, I think that you know people like trees, people like landscaping. I you know, we hope that they will take initiative and um plant some of these trees on their own, right? Um, as far as uh CCNR or other types of binding agreements, uh, at this point, uh, we haven't, uh, written any, uh, set in stone, right? Um, we hope that landscaping does get put there. However, at this stage in working with our planner, we uh, decided to show these patios without landscaping due to maintenance. >> Gotcha. And all these will be rental units. Is that correct? >> Yes, sir. >> So, so then the yard area would be maintained by the the landlord or they would be maintained by each each tenant. >> The the if if it's patio, you like stuff in pots, that'll be maintained by the residents who live there, and they'll likely take it with them when they move out. >> So, the the likelihood that permanent trees are going to be planted there by a resident is slim. >> Okay. Gotcha. Is um then is that backyard condition to be is that fully some sort of hardscape or is that vacant dirt that that when when a tenant moves in, what will they have in that yard area? >> Yeah. So, I I think one of the benefits to this housing type is it's a little in between um full single family lot and and then like a apartment style living, right? And uh so with that, the residents here will have a little more agency than someone in an apartment uh dwelling. And you know, we want to uh empower that and enable that. And so there will be um you know, there will be hardscaped areas for patio, seating, furniture, but also we want to have dirt so that they can plant if they so choose. >> Okay. Gotcha. And will the the power lines that run along the the between the canal and and across the back of those those uh units. Will those be undergrounded with this project or will they remain over overhead? >> Those are uh under the jurisdiction of uh the RWCD. Um we uh aren't going to be they will remain >> remain overhead. Okay. and and then um the so during the study session we talked about that the last neighborhood meeting was held on uh April 14th, 2022 and that there was there was encouragement but that the applicant opted to not have a a follow-up neighborhood meeting as this came to the public hearings. Is is there any um can can you give some color behind that that decision? So, my understanding is that the city did not require an additional neighborhood meeting. >> They said it wasn't required, but uh but suggested, >> but as evidenced uh of the people behind me, this isn't being done in secret. >> Sure. >> We have lots of engagement. There's a lots of people that are here and they want to speak on it and they want their turn and that's great. That's that's what we do in a big city where we all live together. So, uh I I I wouldn't characterize the lack of an additional neighborhood meeting. there is a lot of process that went through and as was stated before there there hasn't been any major changes. So what they saw three years ago is what they're seeing today. And so that's why it just really wasn't necessary to hold another meeting to show them the same thing they saw three years ago. But what we do want to see is robust participation. And I love that our neighbors are here because we're becoming part of their neighborhood. And we recognize as part of their neighborhood, we need to be sensitive to the issues that occur. Also that neighbors that don't own land don't get veto power over a land use that's being proposed next door. They can give their input, but the decision is left with the planning and zoning board and the city council. And so we want to respect that process. And so there really wasn't any constructive need for an additional meeting. But we do have great participation which as again is evidenced by the the neighborhood behind us. Uh we've tried to mitigate and resolve as many concerns as we could and I think we've done a really great job at that and uh we'll you know we've just asked for a positive vote so we can move this project which has been on the books for over four years in the city of Mesa. That is way too far. If we want to understand why housing costs so much this is one of the reasons. >> Gotcha. Thank you. And then um one more question is there. Do you have an an exhibit or something that would show so from the the threetory units that are on Greenfield Road to show what the sighteline looks like from those um to the >> Yes. in this exhibit. So, the the three threetory units are shown on the far right of the exhibit >> and then the sideline that goes straight across and they will not be able to see across the twotory given the angles that uh things set at. So, they'll be basically looking at uh rooftops and the second story units. The twotory units adjacent >> looking west. >> Yeah. So, so if the threetory units to the east can see >> Yeah. can see into the backyard. Yeah. With >> Yeah. It's across Greenfield Road. >> It's 120 ft between the units on Greenfield Road and the beginning of Yeah. to the east. >> But I think for transpar I'm referring to the west. >> Yeah. The west is is is illustrated in this exhibit. >> Gotcha. >> Okay. Any uh any other questions for for Dave before we go to public hearing? >> Okay. Thanks, Dave. >> Thank you. >> Uh Vice Chair, if I could real quick, sorry to interrupt and maybe uh Mr. Richens, while you're still up here, I just wanted to clarify one thing. There was a question asked about the utilities. There's actually a note on the the the site plan that says they will be undergrounded. And I know there's been some some change with that, but according to the plan submitted, those would be undergrounded. Um lastly, regarding the neighborhood meeting, um staff is in the process of updating the zoning ordinance to require neighborhood meetings to happen a little bit uh closer to the hearing date than this one happened, but just for a frame of reference. This application has been in for a bit and we are reviewing it under um the codes in place at the time. >> Okay, gotcha. And that that note on the underground of the power lines applies to the line that runs along the canal. >> Along the canal, correct? >> The western side of this property, >> correct? >> Okay, thank you. Mr. Balmer, that's great news that needs to be updated desperately. I'm happy to help. >> Thanks. >> All right. Thank you. We we will now move to formally open the public hearing for this case. And as as part of the the public hearing, I have several uh blue cards have been filled out. Some would would like to speak and uh some have noted that they uh that their position and and that they do not wish to speak and I'll go through and read those um as we start out. Just wanted to clarify Mr. Frank Gomez, you you did note whether you want to speak or or speak or not speak. You said oppose, but but would you like to speak? Um, >> I would yield right now since I'm kind of new to the neighborhood. >> Okay. >> And this is the first I've heard of this issue. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So then I will start and read through the the blue cards for those um who have filled those out and who noted do not wish to speak. And with this and with those who speak, I apologize if I uh mispronounce anyone's name ahead of time. So Mr. Frank Gome Gomez noted for the record that he is opposed to this item. Uh Carol Arbathnaugh has noted opposed to this item. Uh comments density crime traffic not suited to this area. Also Roger Arbathnaugh has noted opposed to this item. This will not match the general fill of this area. also adding that many residents will impact traffic concerns. Monica Degraphth is opposed to this item and comments this project is a high density project that is not congruent to the current neighborhood and noise, crime congestion etc. And Donna Lepler has is opposed to this item as well. and Jody Oaks is opposed to this item as well. Thank you for those comments for those who provided those. And we will now uh move to those who have have uh requested to speak on this item. And for those who will speak, uh we ask that you keep your comments to less than 3 minutes. And as you you are speaking, if there are things that are that have been said by previous people, um you're welcome to to uh voice your your uh your agreement with with those comments made. But if in in trying to work through and and allow um everyone time to speak to uh to to avoid repeating in detail the same the same items. And I would also ask all those in attendance to to uh keep it orderly and to please not not uh shout out or clap or make any any noise or or uh any other um disruptive motions while we are going through so that everyone has a a respectful time to speak as as we go through. And we will start with Jason Oaks. If you would come up please state your name and address and then let's uh Middle one, right one. >> Hi, my name is Jason Oaks. I uh reside at 1521 North Orlando. So, one of my properties that just backs up to the project. So, I have just a quick question for Dave. He kind of mentioned that it would be really ideal for empty nesters. Is this a whole twostory project or is there any single levels or they all have stairs? Two bedroom, three bath. I mean, three bedroom, two bath, >> two stories. >> All two stories. I just I just know he mentioned that it's ideal for empty nesters. And so, if you're retired, you're probably not want to go upstairs. Another thing is um when it talked about the balconies on the back, is that something that the balconies just looking over the canals? All all of them have back balconies on them. Yeah. So, they just kind of overlook at the canals. That canal is one thing where a lot of people walk on. a lot of joggers, a lot of bicycles, a lot of, you know, families and kids and stuff like that. One other thing is when it comes to the ingress and egress, like how big is that? And I only say that because when you come down Greenfield southbound and you're turning into that that neighborhood, we're in the neighborhood right next to them. And our neighborhood actually consists of a lot of people that drive through our neighborhood to get to other neighborhoods. So, there's a lot of traffic already coming through there. So that turning into our neighborhood is already kind of con congested. So I'm just curious like how big is that ingress degress? Does it stayed on the plans anywhere? >> The does staff want looking at the plan. It's a 30foot driveway coming in on the north of the point where the canal intersects Greenfield Road. >> Okay. And I just as as people come out, I think there's another project just like this that happened on Mckelops. And as I drive down Mckelps, it's just constantly cars stopping and and trying to get in with trailers and bigger vehicles. They're just hard to get into those congested neighborhoods. And so it just creates this backup on that that road. So that's kind of that's kind of all all I had. And actually, when it comes to the the rear setbacks, what what is the rear setbacks on this when it comes to the property line? cuz I know we were talking about planting trees and if it's a complex like you said the only people that would be planting trees is the people that like the owner of the complex so what is the setback on that >> defer to staff that's and you're referring to the the the ones that are adjacent to the canal is that correct >> yeah okay yeah >> just because our neighborhood I think it has like 15 like 30 foot setbacks so being confirming or non-conforming >> residential or rentals >> is that I'm seeing 8'4 in is that what you're seeing? >> Yeah. To >> uh vice vice chair Peterson board members the proposed rear yard um front and street facing sides is because it's angled. There's a point where it is 3 feet 11 inches along the west property line. but it flares out. >> Sorry, let me let me get that dimension for you. >> And I just say that because you have the property line facing the canal. You have two stories with balconies and we're talking about planting trees as a barrier. It's it's not going to happen. I don't even think it's possible. And that's why they continue to just talk about plants and pots and stuff like that. So, just something to think about as we're approving this or not approving it. >> Got you. >> Is it 3 feet? It's it is just over 8 ft to from the property line to the the face of the building >> for for the first story and then the balcony >> and then the balcony can lever >> and the balcony comes out another 5t from >> you can almost fall off the balcony and land on the the >> yeah whatin 3 ft. Gotcha. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yep. >> Nope. And I just I'm just saying when it comes to like residential like you know I know being zon residential it's to protect people's properties and protect the family and the residency and and I just don't know if this does. So thank you for your time. >> Got you. Thank you Mr. Oaks. >> Y >> and next speaker is Mark Hunaker. Good evening, members. My name is Mark Hunaker. Uh myself and my wife Kay live uh at 4224 East Hackamore Street, which um apparently is 1,01 feet away from this project because we weren't notified of anything about it in in all of the time. Um even though we are uh members of that neighborhood for over 25 years at this point um and seeing lots of going on um I I found myself going through lots of the different documentation the application by the owner and the architect um and making lots of notes and then I found myself tonight wanting to simply do a rebuttal almost of the applicant's representative that was up here before of the many many inaccuracies that he stated in his presentation. Um, this is not the only type of project that can go in this lot. Um, and I use as a as evidence of that. If you know, if you look at the site, uh, this the plan this the overhead view of the property, you'll see it almost looks like an X with the road of Greenfield and the canal kind of crossing there and it gives you that triangular shaped property. If you were to go the other side of that X, you'd see a similarly shaped and sized property that is developed as commercial, a singlestory office condo style property, which is very successful. I see no reason why something similar to that could not be done on this exact property and have a little bit different, you know, density obviously than a 30 unit apartment house um complex. So, I I disagree that that's really the most natural and only used for this this oddly shaped and placed property. I I also noticed that in many of the presentations and and and sub materials provided and I want to move quickly here, sorry. Uh they tend to not show the three-story buildings that are right along Greenfield which are going to stand out. There are no other three-story buildings anywhere in that area. um any other type of commercial or residential any of that anywhere around that area in the nearest um so those are going to stand out individually like you know sore thumbs right along Greenfield Road they also don't pay attention we talk a lot about the residents on the west side which I'm a member of the west side residents they don't pay attention to the east side of Greenfield where there are also residences closer than the 150 ft um that they showed in their their presentation um there are u there's mobile home park right there and there also residences is close on that just immediately on the east side of Greenfield. Um, one of the biggest things I want to do is and the other just quickly touching base, I I found that they did not I'm amazed at the the um being a contractor myself, uh I find that we uh deal with a lot with setbacks and requirements of zoning that the city places upon us and not just Mesa but every city. They also um am amazed at the amount of of flexing that the city of Mesa is doing to to make this happen. Um when it comes back to setbacks and density of usage, parking spaces and things of that nature and landscaping, those are things I deal with every day in developing projects and that just doesn't I can't I'm amazed. The biggest thing I want in just allow me another few seconds here. I won't take much of your time if I can have just a few extra seconds. There's a case uh very similar to this and it's uh that we found over on Gilbert Road and McKelps of nearly the same size. It was actually designed by the same people, the same architect which this planning and zoning board denied just about a year and a half ago. We find ourselves exactly in the same position as that project. Um, and there's comments I'm re, you know, referring to an article in the Mesa Tribune just of uh I think it's dated in April of 2024 where uh chairman Ayers and me board members pitcher made some comments and they talked about the five uh requirements that the this project didn't seem to meet and in reading those this same project does not meet those five requirements. And I'm particularly focusing in on um talking about great public spaces. There are no public spaces in this project to speak of. It's so densely condensed in there. It's a 10 lb project into a 5 lb property. Um and uh design standards. Again, the amount of flexing going on to to accommodate this application is just amazing to me. Um, having dealt with not only the city of Mesa but many cities on my projects, I I've never seen such a accommodation made when it comes especially to things like setbacks and densities and uh, you know, lot usages um, such as this. I thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Mr. Hun. >> Next speaker, Wendy Weise. I appreciate the opportunity to speak. My name is Wendy Weise and I live at 4222 East Mlelen Circle number five. My house abutts to the canal caddy corner to this project. I look out my back patio, my backyard, and I will see this project. Right now, I look out, I see sky, I see trees, and now I'm going to see a two and threetory building. We live in a neighborhood of homes that are either on close to half an acre to an acre of property. That's why people that's why I live there. I moved I moved out of Awatuki 25 years ago to Mesa so that I had more space so that I had space between me and my neighbor. This project is proposing putting people right on top of each other. It does not fit the neighborhood. It doesn't fit the style of the neighborhood. It abutts to a square mile of larger homes, of family homes that are have green space, have trees. You talk about the houses that um are right on the other side of the canal um in the Blandford community. The gentleman talked about how well they have their own trees. Well, most of those trees are citrus trees. Everybody knows a citrus tree doesn't grow very tall. So that citrus tree might just sit just above the wall, but that canal on the other side where they're building this is at a higher elevation that our homes are on the other side of that canal. Those people are going to be looking down into us, into our neighbors, into our yards, and we're going to be looking up into their master bedrooms because the back side of that of that canal is where the the developer told me are going to be master bedrooms. I just don't think this project fits this neighborhood. And I want to make one argument about the setbacks. According to their documentations, the setback that they are asking for is 3T 11 in being measured from the center line of the canal path. So that means they are about 18 in off that the canal. I can I'm concerned about families that are there. How tall is that fence that's going to be off of that patio that sits ground level that some child is going to crawl over and end up in the canal? I just don't think this is a very good use for this project and for this property. Like Mr. Hunaker said, there are other options for this property. A singlestory commercial property would fit much better there. The gentleman talked about how they anticipate 360 car trips a day. I will hear every single one of those 360 car trips. And he thinks, well, there's Greenfield there, right? But those cars are going by. This is in my backyard. I strongly oppose this this project. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mrs. Weiss. >> Tom, is it Lepler? Is that correct? Is it this one here? Yeah. Thomas Lepler. My wife and I live at 4257 Hackmore Street. Right there. Uh to try and hit as many points as I can. Um housing values. Uh I've never heard anybody say, "Oh, let's move there because it's right next to an apartment complex." I don't have any studies or references to back that up, but I've never heard anybody say, "Hey, let's buy a house there because there's an apartment complex next to it." Um, crime. Well, we're on the Ring app. We watch that pretty regularly. It's astounding to me how many Ring notices we get about somebody having something in the apartment complexes down there on University or whatever. So, that's another point uh that I would oppose. uh population density. We hear those trucks roll three times a day. And when snowbird season hits, they roll four times a day. The fire trucks out of there in Falcon Field, they're rolling on accidents all the time. Mesa has exploded in our area in the 10. We've been there 11 years now. All the groves are being eaten up. Houses are being built. Our population density has gone crazy. And this is just going to add another big glut of people in that area which is obviously going to increase everything that happens to us. I think most of the points have been made about the size of it and the offsets. They are trying to cram as it's already been stated 10 pounds of you know what in a 5 lb sack and it doesn't seem feasible. It doesn't seem right. Renters don't plant trees. Renters are never going to plant trees. I really don't see how this is a good project in any way, shape, or form other than the ability to make money off some renters coming in. And that's basically the bottom line why it's being built. I'm all for affordable housing. I know housing prices are crazy. It's it's insanely expensive around us right now. And I don't see it getting any better, but I don't see this project as making a sizable dent in any of that. And again, we've already had so many people, excuse me, moving into our area with all the new developments and all the new expansions that have been done over the last 10 years, I think we're maxed out. And there are other alternatives for that property to be built. And from your questions that you asked him, you've hit on a couple of those points as well as far as the trees, the privacy, everything else that we're going to be dealing with. And those are our concerns and that's why we oppose it. So, thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. Lipley. Next speaker is Janet Cody or Cotti. I'll give several options so maybe I get it right with one of them. >> Good evening, council. It's a pleasure to meet you folks. Um, I was here April of 2022 and an impact study was requested by the council. Was that impact study done? I would like to know that information and what the results of that was since uh I con uh gave concerns about the properties. I live at 1455 North Orlando in Mesa, Arizona. My name is Janet Coti. Cot tie is the last spelling of the name. Um the concerns I have uh are factualbased and they are not fantasybased of where possible uh renters will be doing landscaping that they'll be eyeballs that they'll be acting as uh pseudo police security watching on the canal. Uh we also have a situation as far as the security and I love that he showed about talking the 150 ft. I actually did a photograph while the sun before it got down probably about 300 feet out just on my phone showing how you can see directly to the windows. I am in a uh trile home and from what I can see just on this uh elevation here which I'm trying to open up for you. I'm sorry I can't get it open too much. we would have a line of access looking directly into the back of my house which is concerns I had last time when I spoke in 2022. I prefer in speaking facts and not fantasy. I think it's perfectly very good for us to continue developing the area professionally like we did. We have lovely onelevel professional buildings around our neighborhood and I would love to see this develop again. Uh if you look at excuse me if you look at Brown and Greenfield if uh we have professional buildings there we have the Walgreens across from us with more professional buildings. Very nice. They're all being utilized as far as I'm aware of. So from a personal standpoint I'm very concerned about the security risks. My husband is a fellow employee with security clearances and we are dealing with a situation that we can be directly surveiled and I actually don't like that. And so I'd like the city to know this. It's going to decrease our property values. It's going to uh as people said increase traffic, but more so it's going to decrease the ability of us to sell our homes at a reasonable price. Because quite frankly, you're going to go in our backyard and all you have to do is take a look to the left and you're going to see these three and twotory apartments which now have balconies in the back of them to watch us. So I think um this is not a good idea and it puts us at personal risk. That's what I think. Do you have any questions for me? >> Thank you for your comments. >> Any questions? And I would like to see the impact report that was uh requested by the city uh last not the city the uh planning the last meeting April 2022. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Next speaker is K. Freeman Hunaker. Hello and thank you. My name is K. Freeman Hunaker. I with my husband live at 4224 East Hackamore Street. As he stated, we've lived there for over 25 years. I have lived in Mesa my entire life. Um, I'm a business owner at of the orange patch 2 at 3825 East Mckelps, which is within the square mile of this location. Um, my family has resided in Mesa for over 140 years. You may know the mayor. Our grandfather was a farmer. Our great-grandfather was a farmer. We've been here a long time. I've seen much change in Mesa. some that I really don't care for or love. I've seen property deemed historical to now recently being demolished and put into high density. It's my charge and I wish that Mesa would um take some of our history and how we have especially in our area, the citrus area, and preserve some of that. This property does not is not affected with citrus, but it definitely is an area adjacent to this property that has been longtime citrus area, larger homes, larger property, and this is just not conducent to what we have there. It doesn't fit. Um, I don't see myself interested in this as an empty neester and I don't see my children or grandchildren interested in some type of housing like this. Um, and I don't um, let me move on. And like my husband said, I guess our home is with just right outside that thousand ft because we have some neighbors that received letters, but we did not. I am concerned that the original neighborhood meeting was several years ago and we've had much change. We've had new people move in. I know of some good friends, elderly couple that have passed away that received notice for this meeting. They don't even live there and they have passed on. There is needs to be consideration for those that were not available for that first meeting to have input and be part of a neighborhood meeting. Um, this was R35 going to 35 30 units on less than 2 acres. That's quite a reszone. Um, I think that we need to maybe have some more input on that and what's like my husband said, some possibilities for this space. Um, I'm concerned about the traffic. We live on Hackamore which exits out to Greenfield. Um our little street from Ogden out to Hackamore to Greenfield is a major thoroughfare for many of the gated communities and other people that live along Mckelen Mlelen and things. It's can be difficult to get out on Greenfield at certain times of the day. This will add uh to that and I'm greatly concerned about that. Today there was another accident at Greenfield and Brown. Um, I hope that we can address this and look at the concerns with how much traffic this will be adding. At minimum, it is my wish that we and I feel it's the right thing to do is to delay this project and have a new m neighborhood meeting and let those new neighbors that have moved in since the last one know about this project and be able to express their concerns about it. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Mrs. Hunig. the Rich Ruskin. >> Good afternoon to the board. Uh my name is Rich Ruskin. I live at 4222 East Mlen Circle in Park Avenue Estates. Um, I am the HOA president, have been for a short period of time. Um, I must say that I heard I had known nothing about this project until we got a letter from the architect a month ago describing it. Um, I I really uh would ask that at the very least that the board require more scrutiny with regard to this project. Um, I'm not going to reiterate all the other concerns uh that have been previously voiced. Um, I will say I I find it a little curious that the architect who presented initially um uh while he listed all of our concerns, he seemed to dismiss all of them as really not uh viable. and um he has made some assumptions about um who from our community might be willing to um downsize and and move into uh this uh what amounts to an apartment complex. I it it's been described as a as a town home but town home development but these are rentals. These are rentals. Um and uh anyway, he he seems to want to speak for us, but when given the opportunity to uh maybe hold another meeting to involve the entire neighborhood, he uh felt that that really wasn't uh necessary at this point. It wasn't a requirement. I really think it is a requirement. Um the uh community in which I live um that parcel of land that one square mile runs from about Brown to Mccelps North south and then east west Greenfield to um Val Vista. There are a number of high-ended gate I high-end gated communities in that area as well as other uh spacious homes. Uh there are many uh residents like me that have been there for decades and have been uh participants in uh uh the good that this community provides and part of the tax base and I think that they deserve to be heard. I think they deserve a a better solution than has been proposed here uh by the architectural firm and I would I would strongly request that the board um if they don't uh outright deny the reasonzoning at least require that we have uh uh more scrutiny of the project and we have more involvement of this community um bound boundaried as as I described. Uh I think if you were to uh poll uh the community, you'd find very little support for this uh this proposal. Um one thing I would like to mention is well there are a couple things and I'll I'll try to make it brief, but um I understand that the the gentleman that owns the land actually lived on Orlando uh just behind the uh um just to the just to the west of the project. um he has since sold the home and moved on. So, he's not going to be around to deal with any of the unintended consequences of uh this project if it is allowed to uh uh go forward. Um and then lastly, I I do want to re to emphasize how complex the traffic pattern is on on Greenfield uh in in our segment of the roadway. Um you'll recall that a year ago uh this month there was a fatal uh airline crash that killed a uh somebody traveling a road traveling that segment of Greenfield along with several uh um um passengers on the jet. Um and so it it it is complicated and it's tricky. And um the other issue is that there is a uh a median that allows uh cars going north uh driving north and south to turn left uh from from different directions that is highly utilized. You have people right there on the corner of Greenfield and Hackamore that are that are both occupying the lane at the same time and trying to turn and that that can be very tricky as well. And so I I do I I would uh ask that you really look at the traffic pattern there and see it for what it is. It's complicated. Uh it's hectic particularly during rush hour and adding this development is going to further um uh aggravate an already uh public safety issue in in my mind. >> Thank you, Mr. Ruskin. >> Yep. Is there anyone else who would is wanting to speak on this project who has not spoken yet? >> Mr. Gomez, is that right? >> Yes. >> Okay, back. Come on up. >> Uh, thank you for allowing me some time. My name is Frank Gomez. My wife and I live at 1440 North Omaha Circle. Uh, we are new residents within the community. we purchased back in uh 2022. So, I don't have a lot of um information on what was previously discussed, but I would say that um it would be nice to hold another community meeting to allow some of the new residents that have moved in since uh what was previously discussed. Um I do know that there are at least seven new homeowners in the area. So, um I think uh allowing them to voice their opinions or give their feedback into um this project would be very valuable. Um, one of the things that um, I did want to mention uh that I'm concerned about is the traffic and um, we I know that when I leave the um, current area that I normally use Greenfield um, but it is very difficult to, you know, make the left-hand turn onto Greenfield to go north. So, a lot of those people who are coming out of the apartment complex will probably want to make a right-hand turn and the next street would be uh Hackamore and they would probably want to go through our neighborhood. So, that would increase the uh flow of traffic, which is very concerning to me. It is a very uh peaceful community. I previously have lived as the developer mentioned uh in apartment complexes and one of the things that drew me to this area was you know most of the properties are at a minimum a half acre uh which was very appealing to me. Um, not to say that we don't have a need for um, multifamily dwellings, but um, I just don't think it fits uh, the community as it would had been planned back in the the '9s. So, there are a lot of uh, single family homes. Um, I don't think we really need to have um a project of this type in this area. Uh, thank you very much for for the time. >> Thank you, Mr. Gomez. >> Is there anyone else who would like to speak? >> If you would state your name and address please. >> Uh, my name is Chase Winter. I live at 4233 East Hackmore Street. >> Sorry, will you just restate in the mic? So, >> uh, Chase Winterston, 4233 East Hackamore Street. Um, I live about 1,03 yds or 3 ft away from the property. I didn't know anything about this till last week. Um, but just a couple points. So, I used Onyx while I was sitting back there and measured the distance from the his property line, which he's going to basically be on to the people in Orlando. That's actually 90 ft. It's not 150 ft. And then um what I'm concerned about, I live on the park all the way at the end of Hackamore Street and there's going to be a lot of foot traffic. These kids aren't going to have anywhere to go. They're going to go down our road and they're going to go to the the municipalities that are available to them down there. So, we're going to have the kids going down there all the time. People, who knows what it's going to bring into our neighborhood. Um, the other concern that I have is there's a school directly across the street from where this um, uh, the dog place is right there >> and there's a ton of traffic there in the morning. So, when you're heading north on Greenfield out of Hackamore, I get into that center lane and I immediately get over onto Greenfield heading north and then there's school traffic and now we're going to add more traffic on the other side. It's just going to be a nightmare. And we already have two lights right there. There's one for Walmart and then there's one on what is that road? Uh Ivy Street. So there's not really another place where we could put another traffic control thing in there besides the view that these people are going to have to deal with. Um but mostly I'm concerned about the amount of people that are going to be implanted into our community and what that's going to bring. and then the the property values that are going to be affected by it. That's my two cents. So, thanks for your time. >> Thank you. Appreciate that. >> I had filled out a blue card but said I didn't want to speak, but I just want to make a few points. Jody Oaks. Okay. >> 1521 North Orlando. So my property, the backyard goes straight to the canal. So I will directly be affected by this property. My backyard has a I don't know two or three foot Jason, maybe a retaining wall, two or three foot wall and then our our block fence. So the point being their elevation is quite a bit higher than ours already. So to that point, if I'm in my backyard, I can see the very tippy top of heads crossing across the canal. So that kind of show tells you if they're in a two or threele home, I promise you they'll be able to see directly into the entire backyard, which does rate concern raise concerns. I'm raising a family and to that note, I don't have big trees in my backyard blocking that, nor do I have intentions to plant them to protect my privacy. That it doesn't seem like that's something I should have to be doing, if that makes any sense. Um, so to that note, that does raise a huge safety concern for me being that I'm right up against the canal. We will directly be affected by that and then being able to see into our property because their elevation is already higher than they're going to go up three levels. So that's a concern for us. That would be my biggest concern. >> Thank you, Mrs. >> Is there anyone else who would like the opportunity to speak? >> Seeing none, I will formally close the public hearing and and thank all those residents who have who have spoken and shared their comments with us. Would ask uh the applicant to come back and uh respond to some of the the concerns from the neighbors. Thank you. We we heard some some engaged concerned neighbors and I and I love that. I think that's the essence of of our democracy. It's the essence of what we do here in Mesa. I think a lot of their concerns that were addressed were addressed in our narrative. Um you know, just to to look at some of the numbers here, 2/10en of 1% more cars on Greenfield as a result of this project. 360 added to 19,600 is about 20,000. 360 divided by 2 20,000 is 210 of 1%. Not a very dramatic increase in traffic. I think our narrative states about eight or nine kids uh for potential to local schools. And I love that one of the neighbors brought up the opportunity for kids in our neighborhood to walk to a local park. That's that's a a win for the city of Mesa to be able to have a park nearby for people to walk to and I hope the kids will walk there down that Hackamore. The neighbors are clearly inviting and kind and and I think they would enjoy those kids uh being down at their local park. Um the uh at the most there'll be about 120 people that will live in this project. Um there have been no other land use proposals as this site has been vacant for many many years. And so we would welcome if somebody wanted to do something other than this project, it probably would have been proposed by now. And so this project is coming forward because of the need for housing has developed in this market in this neighborhood and this housing type. So that's you see that kind of proposal come forward when the market matures to a point. It's not mature for office. There's a Walmart down the street which is taller than this project. Uh so there's plenty of retail. There's restaurants uh for people to patronize. Uh Gilbert and Mckelps was mentioned. There is no 100 foot or 90 foot canal buffer uh for that project. And so the circumstances were quite different in the denial of that project. Um a neighbor has no right to expect that their viewshed should be protected ever. uh if they don't own that property, the person who does is the one that makes proposals to develop that property. We experienced this at Riverview. Uh I used to live in that neighborhood at Riverview and we had the Riverview shopping center put in there and the folks that lived on the hill above that shopping center were looking over that shopping center and some of those buildings impacted Vueshed and that's an unfortunate result of living in a city. If you don't own the land, if you don't control it, you can't control that viewshed. And it's just it's just goes with the territory. Um, our eyes are not offended by buildings. We're used to that in an urban environment. After a while, a lot of power lines and other infrastructure and buildings kind of disappear to our eyes and it just becomes part of the background noise. Nothing to be very concerned about. You know, that there was concerns about the canal and I love that concern that that is always a worry that kids could drown in that canal. That canal has been open for years and years and years and that risk is present today and it will be present when this project opens. Um uh I think I got about everything here. Oh, one last point. Uh this architecture firm uh with with uh Tim Bole as its lead uh developed a project called the Allen. And some of you may have seen it uh and and heard about it. When the Allen sold, it was of a similar density and a similar similar type. When the Allen sold, it sold for the highest square foot uh per square foot value in the for multif family in the history of the city. That's the quality that's happening here. And putting this kind of quality project is a compliment to this neighborhood. And you know, I know that there's a lot of single family there, and that's exactly why a 30-unit multif family project to be put into this neighborhood brings a lot more diversity to the neighborhood. Uh, I I I think the residents that move in there are going to be very similar to the residents who already live in that neighborhood. And I'm hoping that they'll welcome our residents with open arms, invite them to their HOA meetings and their crime and their crime free meetings and all of those kinds of things because now they're neighbors and hopefully in the future they can find a way to embrace each other. Um, I think what we saw here a little bit is what we call nimiism. And I I I'm reticent to call that out, but I know change is hard. And I know when vacant lots become developed as the market matures, we're going to see this and you're going to see this a lot going forward. So, as a members of the planning and zoning board and and I think staff recognizes this going forward as well that these infill lots haven't been developed for a reason and as that market matures and we get proposals on those developments, we're going to see more neighbors becoming in conflict with those new developments and we just have to put steel in our spine and recognize that we need to reactivate underutilized parcels and add them back to our tax roles. Right now, this is not this is contributing nothing and it's going to be contributing to our tax roles and it's going to be hard. You're going to have neighbors that are going to parade up with this concerns. Density, crime, traffic, it's out of place and the setbacks are bad and and many of the speakers all mention those things. You will hear those things over and over and over and I think the earlier narrative addressed all of those issues. So, I encourage a yes vote on this project. Thank you. Any >> does the question. Does the board have questions for for Dave before we sit down? >> I do have just one quick question if you can just address it directly because I didn't hear an answer and I not I'm not seeing any of the documents. Can you clarify that fenced condition on that um west side for the canal and what what actually is there? What is the elevation? >> And and to add on that as you're answering that and looking at the plan, it looks like it notes cable and steel patio fencing that is 4t tall. Is that what will be from those private yard areas to the canal? If you could clarify. >> That's the proposal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It it is not 18 inches from the edge of the canal. It's it's on the canal set back on the property line. We would not be allowed to encroach onto the canal in any way or the ingress egress roads of the canal in any way and and we are not proposing that. But said, I guess definitively there's no block truly I'll say impermeable condition protecting people from access to the canal from these properties. >> Oh, no. There's there's the cable and steel fence, but not a block fence. No, correct. We want to celebrate that viewshed that that living along canal. You guys have all been to Venice. This certainly is not Venice, but we're we're trying to celebrate that and more eyeballs out there. Keep it safer, >> right? Can we have a little respect, please? Thank you. >> Uh board and uh chairman. Uh my name is David Johnson. I'm the owner of the project and excuse me for stepping up a little bit too late. But generally I leave these presentations on the projects that I push forward in Mesa to the credentialed individuals and the experienced people that that are trained to do this. And it's rare for me to speak publicly in these. I I try to leave that to the pros. Um, I want to say a few things though. I want to first thank the city staff. They've been amazing in this project because it's been a weird triangular site and they've they put a tremendous effort over years. And so, I want to thank Cassidy. I want to thank Jen and and all the staff members. There's been many of them that have worked on this and they've given us tremendous insight in how to make this the best possible site for the individuals that are going to live there and to take into account everything that goes on around it. Um, I also want to thank the neighbors. I lived in this neighborhood for 10 years. These are amazing people. They're quality individuals that care about their community. The fact that they're showing up tonight demonstrates that fact. We're not here to shove a project through. We're here to create housing in the missing middle so that my 28 nieces and nephews have a place to live in the coming decades. Um, I've done my best to directly contact people that have expressed to me concerns on this project as their former neighbor. Um, and I've put it out to the religious leaders in the area that if anyone has a question, my number can be given to them and that I'd be happy to address it directly. Um, I'm a bit troubled that there's this much contention about what should occur on the site. When I began the process, I thought, wow, there's a 100 foot buffer, and the canal is a 100 foot rideway. Um, and this is a buffer that I thought would create um, a very good use where we could accomplish the needs of the community and we could also respect the needs of the neighbors. And so my hope is that we can find a way to make this work and supply these needed housing units and also to work cooperatively with the neighbors. Um, I think there might be a few tweaks we can do. Um, I I I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, Evan, but the the uh patios on the upper floor. If we can find a way to make those not mandated for uh private open space, I'd be happy to make those roof decks so that no one can view from the patio into neighbors yards. And if there's other meaningful ways we can do this, we're not trying to push anything through. We're trying to quit quality units. And again, I apologize for messing up the procedure. I just want to say that. Thank you. Oh, it's all a uh a flowing procedure. So, it's all good. >> Thank you, Mr. Johnson. And and I think it should be noted that we have a local architecture firm and a local person who both Mesa residents that care deeply about this community and are intending to be back before you on multiple occasions doing projects very similar to this. And we want to make sure as we do that, Mr. Boil has over a thousand units on the books of missing middle housing like this type that are on infil lots throughout the city and activating that under our tax roles is is exciting but it's going to be hard. It's going to be a challenge. So I appreciate that it's Mesa people doing it in conjunction with some of their neighbors. So I encourage a yes vote on this project. >> Hold on just a sec. Does does do any other board members have questions for the applicant uh before he sits down? >> I think they're questions for maybe staff and not >> I got you. Yeah. Uh thank you board member pitcher. >> All right. Let me let me find the button. No, I I don't. >> Okay. Then uh that then we'll we'll bring it back to the board for I I guess just one question um for the applicant. Is it is it your preference at this point to and where Mr. Johnson had talked about some some tweaks to it. Is it your preference to continue this and and try to work out some issues or do you want to push for an up down vote tonight? >> It's our preference to have a vote tonight on this project. Uh the reason for the balconies is it's a required open space by the city. So we we we needed to include that. So we'd like an up or down vote tonight. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. We'll bring it back to the board for discussion and then uh a after such discussion then uh if if there's uh thoughts for any motion on it any uh go ahead with questions. >> I guess the two questions I have for staff um and I apologize if it's na naivity on my part but I was a little bit concerned to hear the the point about stepback measurement to the center of the canal. Is that is that true? is that procedure I guess is question one and then question two is this discussion on the impact study I was not a member of the board at that point in time a was that promise B can that be produced did that happen can we address that concern are my two questions thank you >> great great question so it real quick on the impact study I I'll do that one first I was actually going through agendas previous agendas I'm not certain what that was a reference to um so I I'm I'm uncertain on that question what the impact study was regarding u measurements for setbacks. So this would be from property lines um to to adjacent property lines. So it's it's not measured from the middle of the canal. It' be measured from their property line where it abuts the canal the canal right away. >> Okay. So the 3T is a true 3T. The 8T is a true 8T. >> Correct. From from the property line. >> Thank you. >> Then why did he put it in his documentation? It's a so thank you for your comments. The public hearing part is closed and we'll uh proceed from there. Um okay. Any other questions for staff? Jason board member pitcher. Any other questions for staff? >> No, I don't have any questions for staff. I I >> comments. Go ahead with your comments. >> I'll give you my comments. >> Yep. Um, you know, I'm I'm just concerned that um even though the uh applicant said there's been no change and so there wasn't a need for another neighborhood meeting, I think what's changed is the the neighbors in the neighborhood from from what Mr. Gomez said. There's been seven new homeowners and he didn't know anything about this until the letters went out. And so that combined with what Mr. Johnson said about the uh the willingness to to make some changes. I think there there needs to be another um this needs to be delayed for now and and have another uh neighborhood meeting to to maybe work these things out. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. Yeah. Thank thanks for that. And I think that that was that was part of some thoughts behind that was the nature of my my question to the applicant if they would if they were open to that. And it sound like they want a an up- down vote tonight on this um with with where it sits currently. And uh does uh anybody want to share thoughts? I have some, but I'll let everybody else go first. >> Sure. I think I have similar thoughts. And I think uh one of the things we they talked about I mean just looking at the the 2022 minutes that they're they are expressing very similar things that's being expressed today maybe not exactly to a tea but very similar in nature. So I'm saying you know you say you come forward with the exact same product that you say nothing has changed in the last so many years but the concerns were expressed in 2022. I would say what folks are expressing today isn't a surprise, right? Knowing you've got these minutes from 2022, you haven't changed the product, likely the reaction is going to be very similar. Um, if there are things that can be done, I think that there's some compromise here. I don't disagree that this is a great that we need different type of housing products that the triangle piece of land is very difficult to develop. I agree with so many things that you guys have said. I also agree with many things that the residents have expressed. I feel like there's some middle ground here. Um so that's my two cents. >> Thank you. >> Any comments to share? >> No, I think gen I'd echo what's what's been shared. Um I I do have a lot of reservations about how this is proceeding with um what what occur to me to be a lot of unanswered questions or frankly even um un validated positions frankly even even into the staff positions frankly. So I think this deserves a bit more homework and validation um of facts before this proceeds. >> Y thank you. Any comments? >> Sure. Um as was alluded to parking's always a concern. Ingress egress is seems to always be a concern on these major roadways and how it'll affect things. The Gilbert Mccelps one that was a heated debate on that one as well. One of the major things on that one was there's a lane that merged. So there's three lanes down to two on that one, which was really made that site very different in that regard than this one uh for me personally. Plus, there was a median in the road. Um I I look at the site plan. I don't think anybody I'm going to try to say this politely or or or not aggressively. Um, you can't expect anybody not to move next door and not change uh or not just build a single family home. Like even people can remodel and add a second story. So I I can certainly sympathize and understand where all of a sudden there's a twotory next door and they're viewing into your your backyard. That would feel like an invasion of privacy. So I certainly respect that. I I do recognize that that 100 foot RWCD ride ofway does create somewhat of a buffer and I think from a developer's point of view they look at that and say this is an amenity. This creates a buffer. This creates space. This helps insulate our project from the neighborhood. Um furthermore I I applaud that there's so much parking in this. Typically there's not nearly as much parking. So typically there's a concern about oh people are going to go park in the neighborhood instead. I don't see that as a concern in this one either especially the distance to I believe it's Hackamore that's the street onto Greenfield. Um so I see a lot of good in this project in spite of uh the concerns. I certainly respect the concerns. So this is a a unique site. These triangle sites are definitely hard. I I think the market dictates. So you're not going to see commercial. You're not going to see retail. You're not going to see office here. There's just not there's just not a need for it or a desire for it from the otherwise it would have been built frankly. You're going to see lay down yards. You're going to see rock and gravel. So you're going to have loud trucks coming and going would be my in today's current market. Now that could always change. The developer owns this property. He has the right to develop it as he chooses and this is the product that he believes will sell. So I can respect that. So again, I I appreciate the public process here. I appreciate hearing the concerns. They weigh heavy on my mind. So this is a a very unique and very difficult decision. >> Thank you. >> City of Mesa Park ambassadors serve as the welcoming faces of the park. They guide visitors, provide information about park features, and ensure safety by monitoring events. >> To maintain cleanliness and safety, park ambassadors inspect the ramadas and surrounding areas. I I think we're good, Mr. Rich. We're We're back to discussion here. >> I was going to offer a >> permit >> probably like an alternative for you. >> Excuse me. I'm sorry. Since we have background noise, just for the record, I' I'd recommend maybe we take a quick break while we figure out the sound just so that the record and the video >> ambassadors work closely with Mesa Police and Park Rangers to create safe and enjoyable experiences for all visitors. Additionally, they work with park maintenance to report work orders and issues encountered on site. Currently, the park ambassador provides assistance to customers at Riverview, Pioneer, and Red Mountain Park. This year, they have helped over 1,000 reservations at these three locations. >> Very good. Mr. Peterson, if I might, um, >> if Let's just hear him speak really quick and then we'll come back. >> We are the applicant and have the right to speak. >> Okay. Go ahead and just say >> um if if a neighborhood meeting is what this hinges on, um you can certainly put that as a stipulation of approval that we can hold another neighborhood meeting and we're happy to do so. Based on the testimony I'm hearing here, I'm not I'm not seeing a lot of mo change or movement that because the concerns that they site aren't really a lot of stuff that's in our control with this proposal. We can't really do a lot of to change the traffic patterns. We can't do a lot to change crime patterns. We can't do a lot to change uh other than some design features. And you know, other than >> the city of Mesa Park ambassadors serve as the other other than the required open space that we need to include by the those uh balconies. Uh if that concession was able to be made, that would be a big one. And I think that would resolve a lot of what I think you're hearing on viewshed and on people peering into each other's balconies and backyards. And so if those stipulations are have a neighborhood meeting and the city is going to provide a variance on that then I but other than that I don't see a lot of change that could be affected by another neighborhood. >> Thank you. Understood. So, uh, so, so my thoughts on this and, um, in in reviewing these, these are always um um, projects that that take a lot of thought and and, uh, with both the the site plan and then also impacts to adjacent neighborhoods. and in always trying to be consistent in my my thought patterns and comparing uh project to project, sight to sight. This one, this one is very familiar. I drive by it every day, so it's very familiar to me. If I look at the the one on Mesa Drive that was also on our agenda today, I see a a couple of of key differences with that that had threetory elements, but there was it was also adjacent to an existing three-story apartment complex. this location. Um, as as has been stated and through my own observation, three-story elements here are are there there there's nothing threetory in anywhere around. It's uh it's uh the the adjacent the four paws to the north is a second story. The the uh the the the other commercial Walmart may be taller, but it's a singlestory element. So, there's really no threetory precedence in this area. So that's a three stories is a huge um is a huge roadblock uh for me on this site. The uh the the other one the the the the living forward towards the canal and the the views from those second stories even on those adjacent ones to those houses. the even though there's a gap, the gap is there will never be anything vertical in the canal because of operating in a canal that they they always keep it clear. So that sight line will will never have trees or or those types of things to soften it. That that's a large concern. the uh the 4 foot cable fence from those um from those private living spaces is a very huge concern. the again living living in the area there there have been there there have been children my neighbors whose children have gotten into the canal and have drowned in the time that I've lived there and um and a 4ft cable fence with cables going up that children can easily climb over. I I think that's a that that that's a risk and and that that's a significant concern. And then the uh the the other one I think in in good faith we we talk a lot at the city about good neighbor policies for different things and such. And uh I think that good faith at good neighbor thought would be if it's been 3 and 1/2 years since the last neighborhood meeting that before it comes to a public hearing um that there should be that additional input so that we're not we're because essentially we're we're having that same discussion here which is probably in the applicant's interest not not the best um um forum to have to have all that input and to work out those things and so based on those things I am not in support of the plan as it currently stands but I'm open to u if someone has a motion they would like to to uh present if if if not I'll I'll make a motion to to uh deny the the application as it currently stands. Let me read it. Um 4K 4B 021-000066 Greenfield multif family 1.9 acres located approximately 250 ft north of the northwest corner of East Brown Road and North Greenfield Road. reszone from single family residence RS35 to multi to multiple residents three with a planned area development overlay and site plan review to allow for a 30 unit multiple residence development and the recommendation to the city council um motion is a denial. >> I second that. I'll vote please. So a yes vote to clarify means denial and uh board member pitcher. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Motion for denial is uh been passed with five votes and two abstensions. >> Back to staff. >> Uh no additional updates, vice chair. >> Okay. Thank you. Is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Appreciate everyone's input tonight.