e e e e e e welcome to all of you and good morning Witchita  we'll call this meeting to order with us this   morning is Witchita police detective Charlie  Davidson who will provide our invocation   following that invocation we will have the Pledge  of Allegiance and we ask that you please stand for both thank you mayor and counsel if you bow your  heads with me so we can pray dear heavly father   we just come before you this morning and uh Lord  we bow our hearts and we thank you for being the   Alpha and the Omega such a mighty God the creator  of the heavens and the Earth God I just thank you   and I pray this morning for divine guidance  for our our Council and our mayor Lord that   you would give them wisdom and direction as they  make decisions regarding this city Lord I pray for   our de Department directors and our our staff  here in this city as they continue to lead and   direct as workers are out working and keeping  this community safe and keeping the streets   functioning Lord that we could be a city that is  on a hill a city that is a light to this world   and God that we can be an example to other  people across this nation and Lord I pray   that you continue to use this great City to just  spread your word throughout the nation Lord I pray   especially this morning for those in Madison  Wisconsin that are grieving today with such a   tragic incident yesterday God I just lift those  people up to you I pray that you would give them   Comfort give them guidance give them direction  through such a difficult time in their lives   I pray for protection for our schools across  this nation public and private Lord you would   protect them and protect those students Lord  we're up upon the holidays and I just thank   you that we have a time to celebrate the birth of  your son that you gave so believing in him we can   have everlasting life Lord just thank you for  loving us so much that while we're Sinners you   sent Christ to die for us and I pray that we all  can celebrate during this Christmas time I pray   for this meeting I lift it up to you and pray for  your presence and your guidance in Jesus precious   and holy name I pray amen I pledge allegiance to  the flag of the United States of America and to   the Republic for which it stands one nation under  God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you again Madame clerk can you please call the  first item approve the minutes of the regular   meeting December 10th 2024 before we do that I  want to acknowledge that council member Dalton   Glascock is with us virtually and he will  be uh asking to speak or we'll just start   speaking uh so that no one gets alarmed  are there any changes or um edits to the   minutes you see none I move to approve the  minutes of the regular meeting of December   10th 2024 second motion and a second any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the role I motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call  the next item public agenda uh as a reminder the   public agenda allows for up to 5 speakers  to have five minutes each to address the   council no action will be taken relative  to items on the public agenda other than   referral to the city manager for information as  necessary speakers will please State their name   and address for the record a Time clock will  display the speaker remaining time to speak   order and rules of decorum will be observed  the first speaker is Shane Pullman lowincome housing tax credit applications Shane pman I don't see the individual so we will go   to the second individual Madame  clerk Bill Anderson relief for Gaza morning everyone can can you all  hear me okay good we need to be heard uh   let me see good morning I'm Bill Anderson I live  on Jefferson Street in Maggie Ballard's District   before I begin speaking about Palestine I  would like to express my appreciation and admir e e e you feel and think when you see read  about or hear about what is happening   in Gaza Mr Glascock I hope you can hear me as  a private individual what do you feel and think   when you see read about or hear about what  is happening in Gaza finally Mr Johnston   as a private individual what do you feel and  think when you see read about or hear about   what is happening in Gaza like times before I  will spend the rest of my time at the podium   silently to give you the opportunity  to consider your response thank you council member John ston you mayor I appreciate you coming up here  consistently shows a heart however this is a uh   a national issue that we can do abs absolutely  nothing about they don't ask you as a private   citizen they don't give two hits Hoots about  what we think as a a private citizen I have   deep feelings for Gaza sympathy I do there's  no doubt but it's nothing we can do about and   we have some uh big is I'm not asking you to  do anything about it I'm asking you how you   feel sir that's a simple question I just  give us a simple answer give us an honest   answer don't hide behind that please I  would like there to be peace thank you e e my time is up thank you silence can be deafening  as mayor and as Lily woo I do not stand for   hate and my job as the mayor is to keep with the  priorities of our local community which are Crime   Streets Economic Development and a topic that  is near and dear to many in this room right now   homelessness so again we will focus our efforts  on local issues here in Witchita Kansas council   member Johnson thanks Mayor Bill thank you for  your continued advocacy for the folks in Gaza   as I've said before that war is wrong too many  people are dying too many innocent people and   we're all citizens of this planet and we should  speak up when it comes to those atrocities um no   matter where they are and who causes them even  if it's us so thank you I appreciate you Bill Mr Anderson um this is Dalton as I've  said previously I'll not support any   resolution um but I support peace for  um those in Israel and those in Gaza as well continue with public agenda I  just want to recognize Senator otha   fadoo and Senator Mary [Applause] wear Madam  Madame clerk please call the next individual   Jude Meers temporary camping  permits consideration anti- camping Jude Myers I don't see this individual which means  we have two additional spots uh that anyone can   take for five minutes each and you can just come  to the podium state your name and your address is Patrick Murphy I am at 1786 South cica  here in witto Kansas um it seems that Judith   was going to speak on the on the homeless issue  and I realize that you guys are going to make a   vote on that today I think or do something with  it to remind you I I um sorry I was here before   and I spoke um on behalf of the homeless and  behalf of my daughter who is out in the street   right now and the only thing I really want to  say about it is um decriminalizing these uh   these people in their stuff is the most  important thing in my mind I think that   we need to um Implement programs I would like to  say start by saying that I have lived in several   cities that have uh massive homeless problems and  our city I'm very very proud to say has done a lot   a lot more than I've seen in other places so with  that though I would like to say that we can always   do more um and I am here to advocate for that and  I ask that everyone in in our community regardless   of what side you come down on this issue remember  that these are human beings remember that they are   people that generally are lost um much like my  daughter who who has a crisis of faith and um   drug addiction issues and I think that we need to  address those I think that we need to look at them   with compassion first and um give them our heart  as much as we possibly can um I think that uh   in these ordinances and these re revision of  these ordinances there are many good things I know   lowering the the the fines and stuff like that are  are something that is is you know working towards   the right thing but when I think about things like  that I have to question you know what are we doing   um why are we going to burden our court systems  and and our uh our public systems you know our   police force and stuff like that enforcing things  that are going to inevitably amount to nothing um   if a person cannot put enough money together  to uh have a house how are they going to pay a fine and I I understand that we need  to have checks and balances in place   so that we can incentivize them but  at the same time I I think a a heart   of compassion and opening the door to them  welcoming them back into our community is   the most important thing for us to do and  that's all that I wanted to say thank you mayor I have a question for the manager  um uh manager Leen regarding today's uh   proposed ordinance regarding camping  uh doesn't the proposed ordinance   actually reduce the fine as well as the  potential fail time as part of the St ordinance May um yes the fine would be reduced  and it would allow the courts to order communi   service instead of uh paying a fine thank you Mr  manager so just for emphasis it is a reduction   in fines we already have a illegal camping  ordinance currently correct thank you our next speaker okay I'm kind of watching for the time  there we go so my name is Paul water I live at   420 South Lenwood and frankly the reason I'm  here today has nothing to do with anything on   the agenda um a friend asked me just to kind  of come and I I watch what goes on here with   city council and I know most of you and several  of you I've known for a long time and sometimes   it's just a matter of coming and saying thank  you for your service um I when I look at this   agenda I probably couldn't do what you do uh the  other side of that is that um you also represent   people like me that are proud of Witchita I love  to be here I'm a lifelong citizen of Witchita um I   think just what's important is that you guys make  good decisions and be responsible and I think you   do that um as a note Brandon you are my voice um I  live in your district and appreciate your service   so thank you um my world is filled with uh many  mentors people that have given me guidance and   support and so just as a as a thought and maybe  it does Rel relay a little bit to this agenda and   it's really about my own sense of I guess personal  responsibility as a citizen here of what you talk   years ago 30 years ago I ran into somebody from  Kansas Health foundation and and I was trying to   understand what they do and they said well we are  involved in philanthropy and I said what is that   and they said do you know the difference between  philanthropy and charity and I well I thought I   did I thought it's all the same and this is how  they explained it maybe you've heard this story   because it's not unique but they said charity is  picture yourself walking along our River and you   look down in the water and there's babies drowning  you know or a baby drowning you reach in you grab   that baby you pull them out then you grab another  baby you pull that baby out you grab another one   pull them out and then you call all your friends  you call all your friends and say help we we want   to save the drowning babies they told me that is  charity and you will always have need and you will   always have a place for charity philanthropy  is when we go upstream and stop throwing the   babies in the river and to me philanthropy and  as a financial adviser I work with many people   but philanthropy is an investment in the future  of our community and one of the things I believe   that one is not exclusive of the other I support  many great Charities here in Witchita that I think   are helping pull babies out of the river but  also helping maybe it's with the homeless   maybe it's helping with um Alzheimer's maybe it's  helping through many of these great organizations   I think many of them are here in the room today  for philanthropy there's many other things I've   invested 24 years in youth entrepreneurs of Kansas  which gave me a great opportunity to meet a lot of   wonderful young people um including certain people  that are here in the room today um I'll just go   ahead didn't share but Lily was one of my students  when she was 18 years old at East High and to   watch her grow and be part and Lead our community  makes me feel like that gift of Time treasure or   talent to that program changed the course at the  same time I'm an eagle scout all four of my sons   are Eagle Scouts and I'm very active with the  Eagle Scout and The Scouting Community because   I believe that's an investment that we can make  a difference so that we maybe need less charity   I think both are important but also I Believe  In Time treasure and talent and we each have a   personal responsibility and um and as a citizen  which to I take that seriously I believe in the   future of our community and I trust and I believe  that you guys will um work very hard at this and   will make very good decisions one of the things I  tell people I say you need to know when you make   bad decisions you make bad decisions when they're  urgent emotional or under the influence under the   influence of is not about what you eat drink or  smoke it's about the people you surround yourself   with and the media and the social media that  you let influence you so be patient not urgent   be knowledgeable not emotional be grounded  rather than influenced and more importantly   know that you always have choices and when  you know all of your choices then you can   make better decisions and so as you sit there and  I trust that you all will make good decisions um   just remember those things know your choices be  patient be knowledgeable be grounded don't let all   these things influence you and I appreciate  your service so Merry Christmas and thank you thank you very much Paul appreciate  U my time as a student at East High and   uh the wisdom that I gained from many of my mental three were on the agenda and two  were additional is that correct uh Jennifer well you're you've allowed to um  under the change to the ordinance um can   have 30 minutes for the agenda 20 25 minutes  I believe so um five speakers I don't think   you had five speakers so the two speakers that  did not 10 we have two additional spots is that   correct I believe so so we have two more spots  Senator Mary wear thank you so much Madame mayor   and councel uh today I really want to speak about  the homelessness situation it with my work on the   governor's Council for uh the homeless task force  we found that the truth is that homelessness is   absolutely solvable absolutely there are many C  well I maybe many might be a slight stretch but   there are several communities who are found a  a model that is really successful that actually   solves homelessness and our Mac is modeled  after that very pattern we find actual success   with that I haven't seen anywhere in my research  where a community is successful by criminalizing   poverty bullying and arresting our way trying to  arrest our way out of homelessness it just doesn't work I suggest that we make the investment like  the former speaker spoke about the investment   in expanding and doubling down on our Mac program  rather than trying to be heavy-handed and thinking   that that's going to make the the situation  go away because it will not frankly it may   make it worse there are so many Ripple effects  to having homelessness I was I was uh happened   to be in the emergency room this weekend and  this was during the day when you know the the   traffic is fairly light on a Sunday afternoon  but the number of homelessness that were there   obviously homeless at that point was pretty  surprising it is their only option for many   many kinds of services on the weekend every  one of those and I wish I had been had the   time to find the the the actual data on it but  the the pro the cost just to the hospital just   to the taxpayers for one person's visit  one time is in the thousands of dollars   and multiply that that by itself would do a  lot for improving the mac and building it and   expanding it uh and and the Ripple effects  for the the expenses of homelessness just   go on and on and on why not make an investment in  upstream and solve the problem rather than trying   to arrest or bully our way out of it than thank  you council member John ston thank you mayor Mary   thank you very much for for coming and speaking we  appreciate it um I will remind you that so far the   city of witto is the only government entity that  has invested anything in the Mac only one I know   $6 million to build not not for lack of some  legislators trying okay okay and and just to   remind people we have invested $5 million to run  it for the first two years mhm so the funding is   taken care of for the first two years a lot of  misinformation out there about that so I think   the city has invested a lot uh we have a 501c3  board that's going to run it hire a director   to run it 247 365 so I think that's part of the  answer and you are right we do need Upstream we   do need more Services mental health substance  abuse um things like that um we need more the   bottleneck is going to be housing affordable  housing at the end yes that's going to be the   bottleneck so if if you can give us any help on  the state level state has $3 billion dollar in the   bank with a B they can help us with a either with  a Mac or with housing we would greatly appreciate   it I do all I can believe me thank you if you get  your colleagues on board we'd appreciate that's   right well you can help me with that we can work  together and try and make that happen trying thank   you council member hoisel thank you mayor here uh  thank you Senator my senator for being here today   um so in your time on this state homelessness task  force you guys have looked into enforcement and   whether or not that has a an impact on actually  getting people into the shelter um and from your   indication that's not that hasn't been the case  that doesn't work uh no being heavy-handed is is   just not the idea aide of carot and stick yeah  there's there's some appeal there but we haven't   seen data that shows that anywhere that that's  the solution what effective measures have you   found in looking through this well the the  the model that the Mac is is is the the U   San Antonio has uh has been working for quite a  few years around the the the Mac is a miniature   version right of that and the the it it's what  works there are some places in uh New Jersey I   believe that have seen some success with that uh  several several communities around our country are   seeing actual Solutions as opposed to Band-Aids  which are always more expensive and rarely is   very effective let's let's look at at what Let's  do let's be data driven if we're just going to   look at dollars which I mean there's a whole lot  more to to this situation than dollars there's a   lot of heart and you know and concern for human  beings and our neighbors but if even if we're   only looking at the dollars it makes sense to look  at a solution and that's the only thing that that   I have found in my research that is a solution  all right thank you Mr manager I have a question   again if this body took no action to today uh  regarding the P or if this body took no action   today would the punishment in fact be greater  uh than by passing this ordinance for legal camping yes if someone were to be fined  under the current ordinance the penalties   would be stiffer than they are on the proposed  ordinance thank you I also have a followup   given that the senator spoke I'll be a little  bit probably more direct than uh councilman   Johnson's question but has the state of Kansas  contributed any funding toward the multi- agency Center I don't believe the state has but that  doesn't negate anything that I said just because   I'm a state senator that the the two have nothing  to do with each other but thanks D thank you I   also have one last just comment not a question uh  the senator had mentioned say San Antonio Texas I   just looked up San Antonio's um ordinances and  policies regarding a legal camping uh they've   had an illegal camping ORD since 2005 um which  is punishable by up to a fine of $500 which   would be greater than what we are proposing  in the proposed uh ordinance today thank you Senator city manager one last question regarding  the investment that the city of witch TI is making   can you please correct me if I'm wrong but the  city is investing $6 million in the renovation   for the multi-agency center and an additional  $5 million in operating expenses for the years   2025 and 2026 and in addition to the $600,000  that this body also approved for the Emergency   winter shelter am I correct mayor I think you're  a little low on the capital investment I think   we have $8 million allocated for the first  two phases of the project so it was a greater   investment correct thank you very much thanks for  the correction we will continue with the public agenda hi my name is Britney Dober U my address  is 2330 North Oliver Street I'm part of Brandon   Johnson's neighborhood I'm here today  to talk about the proposed amendments   to Camping ban enforcements I oppose these  amendments because they would make it harder   to add address homelessness I'll present two  main points first it's better for the budget   and second it builds trust in the community  first sweeps are expensive there has been a   25% increase in homelessness in witcha this  is due to the lack of affordable housing and   the rise in rent these factors are outside of  their control the homeless are innocent so why   make their situation a crime in 2023 these  there were 232 sweeps costing us $177,400 $136 from The Witcher all Eagle why are there so  many sweeps is the increase in homelessness that   high because the same place is being swept over  and over again according to the watch witch Eagle   the locations that were swept had people back not  long after sweeps don't work we are paying for   ineffectiveness not solutions to be effective and  use the budget wisely we must find the source to   the problem lack of affordable housing and rise in  rent stop wasting our hard-earned money on sweeps   that don't accomplish what you say they will they  accomplish pain and distress second build trust   with your community these amendments will result  in people losing gear essential for survival   government IDs and Priceless personal items  voting yes would mean expanding criminalization   that is not the solution and will not build trust  derailing someone's life who is just surviving   with threats of fines jail time and loss of their  property would crumble any trust you had with   them I would like for you to ask yourselves  what shelter means to you safana Lugi wrote   an article from KLC journal.com titled homeless  witch Italian dream of shelter Beyond four walls   published November 22nd of this year asked the  people that are being affected by these amendments   that same question Latasha long a college student  who said shelter means security somewhere you can   receive help and someone to help with counseling  peace rest and understanding she's been homeless   for more than a year she's pursuing to be a  counselor herself Sarah who's been homeless   for several years says shelter means somewhere to  block the wind sea stated I think if I could have   a shower and clean clothes and every clean clothes  every day and start a roof with start with a roof   over my my head i' go find work and be like the  rest of the world he's been homeless since January   Matt who's been on and off homeless for a decade  says shelter is a place that I can go anytime and   feel safe and not have to worry about leaving my  stuff and someone coming and stealing anything   also where it's quiet and peaceful and I regulate  and dict take my own rules and guidelines his two   dogs he loves I wish I could stand up here all  day and tell you all about them but time is for   vinting me so learn about your community so trust  can bloom know them and their needs so decisions   decisions that imp impact them aren't made without  them in mind to conclude first vote no for the   financial reasons sweeps and arrests disrupt the  process of finding housing are counterproductive   they're wasting taxpayer dollars second vote for  your community vote no for your community Brandon   Johnson Becky tatel Mike Oil Dalton Glascock JV  Johnson emac Bard and Lily woo I believe every   single one of you are compassionate understanding  and willing prove it show this is true build trust   with your community and vote not to Camping bands  criminalization if any of your responses to my   question resemble Sarah's latasha's Sean's Matt's  or any of the other responses then you know they   don't deserve aggression you know they deserve  people surviving you know they are just people   surviving not criminals and you cannot treat  them as such vote no thank you for your time   thank you Brittany council member Johnson thank  you mayor thank you Britney for being here um I   just wanted to say I appreciate you won having  the um courage to come up here and speak the um   willingness to share your views on that um the  strength to stand firm the fact that you look   up facts and had actual citations I just want to  encourage you to keep doing that young people like   you give me faith that our future is bright  so please continue to stand up and use your voice I'm going to use go ahead council  member Glascock yeah I have a question   for the manager previous speaker speaker  mentioned this ordinance would direct uh   police to throw away documents such as  ID or government documents one is that   true and number two is that something  that is not currently in our ordinance um uh individuals that are in the  encampment how they can retrieve   their U uh their personal property okay  thank you council member hoisel I'm going   to use my point of privilege before  we end public agenda may I please ask   anyone who is a provider to our unhoused  and homeless Community to please stand up thank you for your for your service to  our individuals facing homelessness and   I appreciate that you're here today  by you standing I appreciate uh the   services that are provided to those in  need um and I recommend that anyone in   the room look at these faces and if you  need to connect to those resources please   go up to any of these individuals as  they will be able to help you thank you madam please call the next item Board  of bids and contracts dat December 16th uh   correction I'm sorry consent agenda items 1  through 17 consent agenda items that need to   be pulled council member Johnson thanks  mayor I'd like to pull item number seven   item number seven any other items to be  pulled I'm going to pull item number nine I move to approve the consent agenda without  agenda item number seven and number nine second   motion and a second any further discussion I  see none Madame clerk please open the role I motion passes 70 we'll start with agenda consent  agenda item number seven thanks mayor due to a   personal conflict I need to abstain from  this item I will ask Sally sting to come   forward as this topic pertains to affordable  housing um this is a clarification question   can you please share um there're currently on  the Green Sheet it says there are 16 agreements   with Habitat for Humanity but I counted and there  are only 15 agreements attached to our packet if   that is the case that was an error in in copying  There are 16 agreements they are amendments to the   same 16 agreements passed um last month there was  a technical error in those agreements we can have   staff uh determine which one is not attached  and get it to you for the record I would like   to see that last one uh can you just give us  a quick um update this is affordable housing   that pertains again to that whole flowchart  that we're talking about regarding uh shelter   then affordable housing um how is this helping  with that uh flow so at this point these are 33   there's a total of 33 properties uh the the issue  we had was in relation to the agreements that were   for affordable home ownership and it was uh the  wrong exhibit had been attached to the previous   documents but this is an opportunity for the  city to invest ARA affordable housing funds   into these former public housing properties at  this point we do have signed sales agreements   these are the funding agreements for the ARP uh  for the arpa funds uh the ball is in Huds court   right now for them to release the Declaration  of trust so that we have the ability to close   on those properties with within 30 days uh our  developer Partners will be moving forward with   the rehabilitation so that all of these um  properties will be rehabbed as uh quality   affordable housing going forward just want to say  thank you to the housing department and helping us   with the investment in affordable housing in our  community um so I will be in favor of this thank   you we will vote for this I motion to approve um  I move to approve consent agenda item number seven   second Motion in a second any further discussion  I see none Madame clerk please open the role I motion passes 60 with one exstension we will now  move to consent agenda item number nine uh Tim or Troy this item is in regards to the deleno hotel  um this land is going to be sold for $1,000 can   you please explain uh what this Catalyst site is  yeah so mayor uh we provided a prepared response   to the question so I'll just read it it probably  answers the question uh in greatest detail uh so   back in December of 2016 city council approved  the use of irbs for the construction of at least   a 180 Class A apartment unit project a three  star hotel with a minimum of 80 rooms and 5,000   square fet of commercial space on what was  referred to at the time as the deleno Catalyst   site the site's a 7.2 Acre Site just north of  Douglas between the Advanced learning library and   the River Vista project subsequently in November  of 2021 city council approved the issuance of the   bonds for the sales tax exemption only on the  hotel the actual project exceeded the 80 room   three star hotel requirement with the construction  of a 95 room Hilton home to Suites so during the   IRB issuance period the city maintains a leasehold  interest in the property once the outstanding   bonds and fees have been paid or will be paid in  full the tenant purchases back the property this   is simply a procedural transaction to remove  the city's leasehold interest the city is not   selling the property the city is not selling  the Hotel this is a pretty standard practice   for all of these types of RB transactions and  just for the record uh the increase in property   value is now being captured by the city is  this correct yeah I'd have to confirm that   but I don't believe it's under a tax income and  financing District or anything like that so that   was undeveloped land that now is developed now  there's more tax dollars coming in as property   taxes into the general fund thank you very much  I move to approve consent agenda item number nine   second motion and a second any further discussion  I see none Madame clerk please open the role I motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call the   next item Board of bids and  contracts dated December 16th 2024 morning mayor city council Josh  lber Department of Finance board   bids and contracts conven yesterday and  December 16th for the following items we   have for you for engineering the 2024 outsourc  Paving preservation program CIP Concrete Street   repairs phase three for conspec Incorporated  doing business as Kansas Paving in the amount   of 385,000 awarded within the engineers  estimate from the original bid of $378,500 Concrete Street repairs phase four for  conspec Incorporated doing business as   Kansas Paving for 445,000 awarded  from the original bid of $436,500 Incorporated for1 m9130 negotiated from the  original bid of 1,278 532 We have tree and   stump removal for shaune Mission Tree Service  Incorporated for groups 2 3 5 six and n and   witchat tree LLC for groups 1 four 7 and 8 we  have the fourth floor locker room renovation   for Sky Contracting Company Incorporated and the  amount of 159,000 we have 58,000 gross vehicle   weight restriction dump truck for Truck Center  companies for an aggregate bid total of $14,597   we have the self-propelled Tri tricycle type  street sweeper for Barry Tractor and Equipment   company for an aggregate bid total of 349,000 we  have the interior and exterior modifications of   five single family homes for gry and  Suns Construction LLC for an aggregate   bid total of 360,000 we have Transit facility  electric vehicle infrastructure rejecting all   bids we have the trailer mounted 6in aluminum body  submersible pump from Merino dewatering LLC in the   amount of $ 69,7 49 we have the contract change  order for meters replacement parts and itron ER   s Group 1 two and four for Midwest meter  Incorporated for an amended estimated   annual usage of 1,534 299 we have the contract  change order for grip removal services for Waste   Connections of Kansas Incorporated for $122.7  per ton and the following rates for our new   water treatment plant when we will bid this  out in February 28 2025 we have the Ops audit   Essentials auditing software as a service  subscription for audit board Incorporated   for $8,250 annually we have the bonfire intake  and Es sourcing procurement software for gty   software Incorporated doing business as bonfire  interactive limited for the aggregate total of 192,000 we have the supply and install  audio visual equipment at West link   library for conference Technologies  Incorporated in the amount of 387,000 8148 we have the witto police department Police  radios and equipment for motor Rola Solutions   Incorporated and first Wireless Incorporated  for an aggregate bid total of $319,990 24   we have the print and electronic publication  subscription management software as a service   subscription for Esco Information Services  LLC for an estimated annual usage of 34,000 this is how to become a vendor with the city these  are open public opportunities out on the street   today and I'd be happy to try to answer your  questions and I recommend your approval thank   you Josh we'll begin with council member tutle  thank you good morning Josh thanks for being   here today thanks for all you do appreciate  it um just a quick technical question if you   could go back to slide nine please sure and  you're gonna have a great answer I know but   there's no dollar amounts yes great question so  we have different types of bidding construction   fixed fee for Service Group bidding what this  contract specifically is is when we're grouping   we're Contracting rates for Geographic locations  throughout the city So within our external bid   packet we do have itemized all those different  groups um for the public to review um but today   what we are um awarding is those vendors with  those specific groups and their Associated   dollar amounts perfect answer thank you so much  vice mayor Ballard thank you thank you mayor   thank you Josh uh council member Tuttle stole my  question for page nine but if you could go to 14 sure um so what is the plan moving forward  um I know the Department's working on the   specs the issue with this was is when we  specked it out we did not have the correct   number of charging stations or did not have  something within the specs that outlined what   we were requesting when the bids were opened uh  Department understood that it wasn't what they   asked so we're needing to reject the bids to go  back out um and plans moving forward will be to   retune the specs Define the scope of services  and get the corrected number of items thank you   so much council member hoisel thank you mayor  um can you go back to slide nine please sure   is this the um the funding that we're using  from the savings for um U mowing mowing the   parks here the last last year during the dral  I'm getting a head nod from my Parks colleagues   yes okay yeah I just want to just make a note  to the public this will catch us up on maybe a   third of the tree removal that we have around  the city on City spaces um so it this is a a   good use of some savings that we've had this  year catching up on a a much needed program   here so just wanted to make that um public  knowledge and give a shout out to our parks   department and purchasing as well and everybody  who's um worked on those issues so thank you I move to approve the board of bids and  contracts for December 16th 2024 second   motion and a second any further discussion  I see none Madame clerk please open the role   I motion passes 70 Madame clerk please  call the next item petitions for public improvements good morning mayor city council  members Paul gunsman Public Works and utilities   for the record I have revised petitions for your  consideration this morning signatures on the   petitions represent 100% of the Improvement  districts and the petitions are valid per   Kansas statute Falcon Falls 7eventh Edition  located in District 1 on December 19th 2023   the city council approved water storm  water drain sanitary sewer and Paving   improvements required for a new res residential  development the developer has submitted revised   petitions to shift the project financing  from acquisition of privately constructed   improvements to construction of publicly bid  improvements the budgets remain as previously   approved and it is recommended that the city  council approve the revised petition adopt   the amending resolutions and authorize the  necessary signatures and I will stand for questions I see no no questions for staff I move  to approve the revised petitions and budgets and   adopt amending resolutions and authorized  necessary signatures second motion and a   second any further discussion I see none  Madame clerk please open the RO I motion   passes 70 Madame clerk please call the next item  Downtown parking plan implementation strategy honorable mayor members of council uh Troy  Anderson assistant city manager good morning   um so hopefully we're gonna try and wrap this up  today um but I want to take one last opportunity   just to kind of touch on some of the highlights  I won't belabor this a whole lot but um this has   been a conversation that has been uh taking place  in this community for probably 25 years um couple   of slides we've shown historically about all of  the the parking plans and Community engagement   that the city has engaged in um particularly  a number of community events and conversations   that have been had over the last several months uh  specifically the last item here is what has been   added since our last presentation and that is that  back on November 19th we stood here before you uh   at a city council and we presented options a b c  d and e and as a a takeaway from that meeting uh   we were guid and directed to look closer at Option  a option e or some combination of the two so just   to kind of set the book ends right um I'll run  through real quickly option A and option e option   A will talk about the geography the of operation  the rates exceptions advantages disadvantages   we'll do the same thing for E real quick here  was the map that was provided for option A hours   of operation Monday through Thursday 8:00 am to  600 PM Friday and Saturday 8 am. to 9M fees would   have been charged at a rate of 75 cents per hour  in L of hourly charges there's a daily rate and   daily rates there's a monthly rate outside of the  aforementioned hours note that we didn't include   Sunday on the previous hours of operation schedule  uh there would be no charge for parking and then   after the course of the First full year we'll  collect data on demand and occupancy and return   to council to adjust rates if necessary there  were a number of acceptions that were identified   including accessible parking loading and ride  share designated parking 15minute designated   parking with the registered session event parking  special events the advantage ages included the   greatest likelihood of recovering costs managing  parking most Equitable environment and provides   for capital investment disadvantages what were  that it introduced paid parking where paid parking   doesn't currently exist and doesn't recognize  some of the other existing parking agreements   on the other end of the spectrum is option e the  other book end option e introduced a phased Appo   approach uh Drew from some of the suggestions  made during the August Community meetings   uh carried over some of the concepts for some of  the other options for example enhanced operation   and maintenance in the early years introducing  higher rates on lots and garages in 2025 parking   meters in 2026 no changes made in deleno and on  street and lot parking in Old Town will remain   in its current form again the geography shows the  modifications to the boundaries no change to the   hours when we were looking at option e remember  though it was not financially feasible under the   75 cents an hour and the $5 all day in fact we  had to go up to $3 an hour all day or $3 an hour   across the system and upwards of $8 to $22 all  day and it still was not financially viable again   kind of reinforced the exceptions did not include  deleno Oldtown would have remained the same the   advantages were yeah did recover some costs Safety  and Security were uh increased uh there were some   concepts of managing parking but unfortunately  option e uh did not recover all costs was not   as effective at managing parking may be hard  to expand did not contribute to Capital needs   may require lawsuits to recover fees and created  an inequitable parking environment okay so those   are our book ends so then we went back to the  drawing board and we tried toig figure out if   there was some iteration between those two um  and so what we've done and I'll show you the   table here in just a second um we have identified  three variations of a and three variations of e   and sort of this last variation which focuses on  the boundaries of the self-supported municipal   improvement district only uh there were some  questions that were raised over the last couple   of weeks about the what we call the smid the  self-supported improvement district when we   referred to the smid we were simply referring to  that as a boundary description uh the boundary   map of the smid is included in the agenda packets  um there was some suggestion that maybe we needed   a little more history on kind of what the smid  was and and how this all came into play so just   real fast so the smid district was established in  2001 quote to have a focused economic strategy for   Downtown Development and to cultivate cultural  and artistic experiences for our region smid   is funded by a self-imposed additional Levy of  approximately seven Mills from what I understand   the max Levy is 10 mills uh subsequently the city  council approves the levy on behalf of the witch   to Downtown Development Corporation each year and  in 2025 the proposed budget for this midf fund   is just under 900,000 as you can see not a viable  funding source um or an option for really talking   about parking management okay the following table  was prepared to illustrate options AE and what   we're calling the a smid so when I show folks this  table right one of the first things we talk about   is there's three parts the the rows are broken out  into sort of deleno downtown Oldtown within each   one of those three subdistricts we talk about  up operation of Maintenance enforcement and   capital investment the acronyms you see there MP  stands for meters and pricing na not applicable TL   time limits and then I'll get into some of the  other stuff here in minute notice that across   the Spectrum um of options downtown operation and  maintenance is managed through meters and pricing   enforcement through meters and pricing capital  is paid for by meters and pricing that remained   the same across all of the variations so what we  really wanted to start focusing on were the deleno   and the Oldtown variations right so you'll notice  here on the bookends option a option e option A we   had full meters and pricing in deleno option e we  had the status quo in Oldtown so we started kind   of ratcheting each one one sort of closer together  so the first iteration of each of these um you'll   see there a minus one was this idea of okay well  rather than full meters and pricing day one there   were some comments that were made during some of  the community meetings of uh that Delo doesn't   have any alternatives until the Hub is open so  this idea was based on um acquire the meter and   the infrastructure today get it installed in order  to take advantage of things like bulk pricing and   those kind of things and then the idea would just  be to Simply Hood The Meters until such time as   the Hub opens and then we could remove the hoods  and activate the machines and we would ultimately   end up arriving at the same place with option  A on the other end of the spectrum option e was   um beginning to sort of Ratchet up to try to meet  in the middle introducing the idea of time limits   managing time limits in Oldtown uh and then you  can see the next iteration of that if for whatever   reason investing in the equipment in deleno um  were not feasible right or or was was not the   will of city council then this idea of okay well  can we just manage time limits in deleno when we   started talking about Oldtown you know is there a  greater cost recovery that could be achieved uh in   Oldtown in order to supplement um the management  of time limits Etc you see the next iteration   where these two sort of come together and that's  the combination of uh time limits managing time   limits in Delano managing time limits in Oldtown  and recovering a greater cost recovery in Oldtown   you then kind of take it one step further right  and you get this idea of um excluding deleno   entirely that was contemplated under option e and  uh going full meter and pricing in Oldtown right   and that's where this idea of option A it's also  representative of the smid boundaries uh came to   fruition okay kind of looking back at all of  those right uh we went back to uh the model   started playing around with some numbers making  adjustments to uh revenues and expenses based on   all of those variations and all the assumptions  within those variations option A1 would require a   flat rate of a dollar per hour across the system  in order to achieve Financial viability option   A2 would also require a flat rate of a dollar  per hour across the system options A3 E3 E2 E1   would all require rates far exceeding $2 an hour  to be financially viable which is why we're not   recommending any of those and this last option the  the smid options it does uh pen out is financially   viable at a dollar per hour across the system  during the process over the last couple of weeks   um there was a request to Simply maintain uh the  arrangement in Oldtown as it exists today whereby   uh whether again it's an increase in the rate uh  all the parking and Le of parking rates that the   business owners and the property owners are paying  or it's a combination of a CID sales tax along   with an increase in those rates so we've sort  of prepared this statement that if for whatever   reason property owners in Oldtown wish to maintain  the existing Arrangement they would be required to   petition the city council to establish a c Levy an  additional 2% sales tax and increase all all other   non retail payment in Le of parking agreements  to a minimum of $15 per space per month so while   we're talking about Oldtown uh there were some  questions over the last several weeks um regarding   uh specifically how much revenue may have been  lost by failure to increase the Oldtown parking   agreements since their initial approval an audit  was conducted by our city auditor and as a result   of that audit uh since 1999 an average of about  $532,000 per year has not been realized uh it's   been suggested by some of the individuals involved  that the original intent of the rate increases   were tied to a 15-year term and that removal of  the rate increases or decision to not implement   the rate increases was based on an agreement to  pay a fixed rate in perpetuity again these claims   cannot be corroborated nor can we find any city  council action to support the same okay Financial   considerations staff has identified approximately  $18 million in improvements and in fact uh wanted   to point out specifically within the Agenda Report  uh we've actually identified about $18.5 Million   worth of improvements as well as uh included  in the agenda reports a schedule of of those   improvements and funding options over the next8  to 10 year period um as it relates specifically   to parking implementation though for year one  revenues for option A smid are anticipated to   be approximately 3.5 million expenses for option  A are anticipated to be approximately 3.1 million   that's a net gain of approximately four and a  half $450,000 after year one that would be used to   invest back into future Capital expenses exhibit  a that was included in the agenda packet shows   the anticipated revenues and expenses over the  next three years for each of the other variations   here's what that exhibit looks like I have  this can I use my point of privilege at this   moment before you continue um I'd like to go  back to slide number 62 and I'm going to use   my point of privilege at this moment because  I'm so upset about this um this means that the   city of Witchita lost out in $13 million worth  of Revenue that could have helped with the $18   million in deferred maintenance over the last  25 years had I not asked to see these parking   agreements I would not have been able to ask these  questions so I'm going to ask these questions at   this time because if not we're going to move  on from a very key piece in all of this which   is the parking fund was not working out in the  positive it was actually going in the negative   there we needed to know why is that the case  so I had specific questions that I asked of   uh Troy and I got those responses this morning  so I'm going to ask them in full so that you   can just respond to them number one are all the  businesses in Oldtown currently paying the same   rate including the 30 agreements that I looked  at over the weekend in this binder that show that   the rate in 1996 was $7.50 can you please again  tell me are all the businesses in old currently   paying the same rate of the businesses that are  paying yes it's my understanding that all of those   businesses are paying based on that flat rate of  $7.50 per space per month is this accurate most   of the agreements should be paying quote based on  monthly rates that will be established based upon   the amount actually budgeted for maintenance  and repair of the Oldtown parking District   Improvement m ments one of those agreements  in the 30 that I reviewed showed that there   was an escalation in those prices in 1996 it was  $7.50 in the year 2013 it was supposed to go up to $25 so yes regarding that language uh that  language uh often appears in a number of   those agreements uh so yes that's an accurate  statement to say that language does appear in   a number of those agreements what is the city's  actual amount budgeted for maintenance and repair   of the Oldtown parking District improvements if  $750 cents doesn't help us recover costs what   is the actual amount budgeted for maintenance  and repair of Simply Oldtown parking District   improvements so um and again you'll have to  forgive me I got here about two years ago right   so as this information has come to light as we've  gone back and we've looked at this stuff it's   my understanding that the city has never gone  through that exercise of identifying what the   actual costs are and budgeted what costs are for  Oldtown because of that decision to maintain the   flat rate at 750 in essence uh that additional  language that you described um becomes sort of   moot in the context of this agreement to continue  to discharge the flat rate of 750 per space per   month across the board because I see that there's  a proposal for $15 from the $750 to now $15 will   that actually cover the budget for maintenance  and repair of these parking spaces versus what I   see again in contracts from the 1990s that that  say it should be $25 at the very least yeah so   where that $15 came from um is a combination  of you'll notice on this table uh under option   A3 E3 and option E2 under Old Town adjusted  revenues you see a number a little more than   a million dollars a year that was derived from a  combination of what we've been led to believe is   a 2% sales tax uh the suggestion is is that  Oldtown generates approximately $40 million   a year in sales uh subsequently a 2% sales tax  would generate approximately $800,000 a year so   in addition to the $800,000 a year all of those  businesses that are not retail businesses would   have to enter into agreements with the city  to provide that parking that payment in Li   of parking at a rate of $15 per space per  month to try to make up the other two mil 32,600 and the last question is how many stalls  are actually in the Oldtown parking district   and does that cover the amount that you just  mentioned tell us what it has been from 2014   to 2024 so just in the last decade we could have  been reviewing these contracts but it looks like   someone did not review these contracts so  we've not been holding to contracts so why   have contracts so how many stalls does this  actually cover so I can specifically speak to   the original ordinance that approved the Oldtown  parking District identified a total of 1,33 spaces   based on a physical audit of Oldtown  we have been using a number of 1,721 spaces again I am just G to quickly say that I  will I was one of the individuals that did not   vote for a or E and it's because of this very  topic once I found out that $7.50 was what what   was being charged by old Town businesses  and I asked for one of those agreements to   be shown to me and one of those agreements was  shown to me on November 20th the day after our   council meeting and when I saw that there was  escalation rates that went from 750 to another   amount like $15 I asked myself why were these  contracts not enforced and how did we get to   this position and when I started learning that  there were more of these agreements and that   Oldtown is currently paying the same rate as 1996  and I don't know what other um entity still gets   charged the same amount when there are increases  in costs like Personnel like equipment I was very   concerned and that is why I did not vote for a  or E because of these agreements that someone   or some entity did not follow through with so  I'd like to know who will be held accountable   for that type of action that was not following  through on those contracts mayor if I can and   it's taking us a lot to try to even get to where  we are today to figure out what happened but in   1998 the staff was directed to collect 750  per contract and we can't tell if that was   with uh direction from Council or whether it  was action taken by staff unilaterally or by   the city manager at the time but there is clear  indication staff was told that there had been an   agreement and we were staying at 750 um if you  were to talk to Oldtown businesses especially   those who have been around for a while it's  their understanding that they were to pay 750   into a long period of time an undefined period  of time and that that was part of an agreement   for an extension of their contracts which were ant  anticipated to expire by 20 within 15 years years   at the time the Ci or the Tiff expired we weren't  here at the time can't speak to that except what   we've been able to piece together through  conversations and some limited corresponden   but I think the parties in Oldtown believe that  they had a commitment that the rates would not go   beyond the 750 however in our discussions  now they understand the difficulties with   such a limited Revenue stream and that's why  they have agreed to basically over a million   in annual revenue into the parking system going  forward to help pay off their expenses to pay the   expenses for maintaining not only the uh parking  facilities but also improving security and um   maintenance of the the entire infrastructure city  manager I appreciate that you said that this was   in the 1990s but also I saw of the 30 agreements  there were agreements that were made in the last   decade that if it was not recovering costs there  should have been a new agreement a new contract   that actually covered the costs so I'm a little  concerned that in recent past not 25 years ago   we did not say well it's not helping us recover  costs which we've had this conversation from this   bench everything that we do must at least at the  very least cover the cost so then it is revenue   neutral if not then we're putting it on the backs  of another project or another department and so   my concern is what will happen then if we don't  reconcile that there are contracts just in the   last decade that didn't take into account what  the actual cost is and even right now I don't   feel like I have an answer of what's the actual  cost the cost recovery for one single space in Oldtown well I would tell you that's why we  started I when we first started the parking   study it was because we recognized we were not  recovering our cost and we needed a plan going   forward that was Equitable and would allow us to  to collect the revenues necessary to operate the   system and that dates back to at least 2017 and  probably much earlier than that when we started   talking about this goes back to the downtown  plan which was in 2010 it's this has been a long   process and we've had it it's been very difficult  for us to get approval for changes in the   system so the contracts that have been approved  are maintaining Equity across the the Oldtown   area in that case but we have flagged for the  Council on numerous occasions that the system is   deficient and is not covering its costs so you're  trying to tell me that it was councils that did   not look at these contracts because it took me an  actual direct ask to get these I don't think any   of my other colleagues received this but I did  because I direct ly asked about these contracts   so that concerns me because I know that my fellow  colleagues are part-time positions and they cannot   just look at contracts all day um we do expect  that of as you've mentioned before staff does that   and so we take your guidance since you're the city  manager to help us figure out are we being fair   with Community not having quote back room deals  or sweet heart deals so this does concern me and   I want to know how we're going to how we will make  this better and how we will not make this mistake again well in terms if the council were  to approve a plan today we will correct   the situation financially across the entire  system so that would be after years of work   we'd finally get to where we need to be on cost  recovery and actually putting money aside for   maintenance so that piece would be taken care of  uh if you're talking about contract Administration   we are implementing A system that would I  think hold our staff more accountable for   increases and changes in contracts and we've  got we've identified software that will help   us in terms of that implementation that'll  be across the organization because right now   implementation of contracts or Administration  contracts rest primarily with the originating   department so it's siloed and I think we need  a much better uh organizational response to that vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor  um it's just a little frustrating to me   that it is very unfortunate that um  we are in the situation that we are   but I also want to remind and I mean by not  collecting whatever the projections were but   we didn't get in this situation overnight and  there's been several staff members several   councils that have not made this a priority this  conversation has been in the works for 15 years   the political pressure has got to be a lot Public  from the or um pressure from the public has been   a lot um some of the businesses want it some of  them don't because it's scary but the idea that   we're the 50th biggest city and out of the top  100 cities we're the only one that doesn't have   managed parking is absolutely embarrassing to me  that just seems to be the witch aah way to kind of   keep kicking really Common Sense things to me down  the road um we don't have to do that and we have   been dealt um a really rotten um thing here to to  try to fix and I know it's going to be hard and   feel like we've done a really good job listening  to everybody and we've come up with some different   options um there's only a couple that make  sense to me I certainly don't want to sign   up for something that keeps us in the red that  makes no sense to me um so I'm kind of curious   to see where the rest of my colleagues are and  certainly listen to public um comment and I am   so grateful for all of you that um have taken the  time to to come and join us today and hopefully   try to kind of wrap this up but I just you know  we would all love someone to point the finger   out and blame but I just want to remind everybody  this didn't happen overnight and this is this has   been in the works for a really long time um and  I think it's time to uh clean it up and and try   to move our core Verity and on further so thank  you council member Johnson thanks mayor um I know   we're in the middle of your presentation Troy  but um I just wanted to highlight that this is   something that I believe councils have actually  worked on and understood hence a 2019 downtown   plan um there may not have been specific contract  action and I respect for the public going back 30   years to talk about all of the things that may or  may not have happened but I I will say councils   have been waiting for a plan which is what we're  talking about today that will address everything   in a uniform way um and not just one offs so  it does make sense to understand 750 um per   spot going back to 94 98 it's good to have that  information out there so everybody has the same   information that we have but also we're in this  vote right now this plan has been worked on it's   been debated publicly um to me as a council  we look at addressing things uniformly with   with plans that then will um help guide what we  do with contracts and I think that is where we   are at today and what tro is going to finish  talking about here in a second so I wouldn't   say that councils have not cared about this or  known about this may not have read every specific   plan but we have known for quite some time that  there was a plan in the works and people have   talking about it meetings have been had and we've  known that there are some Revenue issues with the   parking fund some maintenance issues and we need a  better parking management so that was the creation   of the plan my experience with this city manager  is that if there is an issue a plan is put forth   to address it uniformally which is this was  multiple people but I think that's where we   are today and looking forward to the rest of this  presentation and what the public has to say but uh   to me going forward accountability would come from  enacting a plan that especially has all of his   attention right now and if we put in some forms of  reviews as a council that helps the council also   be accountable council member John Stone thank  you mayor I would just like to thank the staff   for the effort they put in into this especially  Troy you've been rugged through the mud quite a   bit so uh thank you maybe you'll get a Christmas  present we'll we'll vote on a plan so thank you   thank you again uh to the city manager and  assistant City Manager for those responses   again it's very unfortunate we're in this position  um but I believe that the public needed to know   and that's why I spent that weekend looking at  these contracts so that we're now on a Level   Playing Field uh again we need to move forward  but this is actually what happened over the last   25 years we're now in this position where this  Council wants to make a decision and not wait   another 5 years um the last time this was fully  engaged by the entire public was in 2019 so again   I appreciate your efforts Troy in picking up the  mantle just the last two years can you please   continue your presentation yeah the table of the  evaluation of all of the financial modeling that   went into each of the variations again I'm not  going to belabor that here I will uh have this   available to answer any questions um should  Council so choose um but moving on to Legal   considerations recommendation amendments to the  existing amended and restated operation of manage   agreement will be required um depending on how  Council acts today uh we have representatives   from the car park uh here with us today to  answer questions as well uh we've already been   in conversation about what amendments uh may need  to be made uh depending on action of the council   today and Phil as though we can return back  to city council probably early January with an   amendment to that amended and restated operation  management agreement to coincide with the   actions taken today uh with that being said the  recommendation uh that's been put before you is   that city council approve option A within the smid  and with that being said I'll stand for questions   council member hoisel thank you mayor uh a couple  quick questions about the possible C in Oldtown uh   it sounds like the revenue generated you said  18 or 8 800,000 okay um what happens if not   all businesses in Oldtown agree to the CID does  that mean they go to meted parking or there be an   increase to 15 or whatever we negotiate dollars  an hour for the spots um just curious about how   we get everybody on board the C so that would be  the will of councel um again my recommendation   would be that um that we move forward with uh the  plan that is option A which means implementing   meters and pricing uh within downtown and within  Oldtown and if for whatever reason the property   owners the business owners within Oldtown can  package uh not only a CID application but all   of those agreements that were mentioned uh for  non- retail establishments um then we can always   there's an there's an off ramp so to speak uh  but knowing and understanding the timeline and   the work that has to go into uh the next phase of  this right so uh if Council does endorse option A   within this smid today again we would immediately  start working with the car park on Amendment to   the agreement but then ultimately January February  we need to start purchasing equipment getting it   delivered getting it installed getting it tested  um originally the conversations that we've been   having with folks over the last several weeks and  months is that uh obviously that's not going to   happen by January 1 2025 probably the new schedule  would look more like a soft launch in June June   1st 2025 with sort of a full activation July 1  2025 so that we can do some good data collect   around usage occupancy so on and so forth um but  in order to kind of achieve those uh timelines   we're going to have to be pretty aggressive with  getting the contract Amendment getting equipment   purchased getting it installed tested Etc in order  to achieve those timelines I appreciate that so   but going back to the CID every business has to  okay being part of the CID correct so so under our   current local policies yes the CID requires 100%  uh state law if I'm not mistaken only requires 55%   so it would require somewhat of an action waiver  of council if for whatever reason they can't get   100% at a minimum they would at least have to get  55% of the ownership uh within the boundaries to   agree with that c okay now if there's a business  there that maybe they want to look at their own   CID for infrastructure improvements or whatnot um  is that workable if we have a CID or would that   have to be a separate CID agreement that works out  between us and that particular business [Music] so   which is one of the disadvantages to that  approach and we've kind of spoken about this   previously right is that if Oldtown establishes  a district and a 2% sales tax to go towards this   these eligible expenses under state law any other  property owner business owner that wanted to take   advantage of that tool would simply be unable to  use that tool in the toolbox so to speak because   it will have been sort of maxed out based on all  of the uh you can't layer Cs on top of cids type   of thing so it it would almost have to be carved  out and then that would be a separate if if we   worked theoretically yes and then we're kind of  back in the situation of so how does that property   owner contribute to parking parking management  so on and so forth so okay thank you vice mayor   Ballard thank you mayor council member ho stole  a couple of my questions but um as far as the C   um two questions how let's say  that we're going to do a smid   and how long would it take Oldtown to do  whatever they need to do to get the CID rolling um I feel like we would need to give  them some type of deadline because today the   train is leaving the station with parking and if  we're going to entertain the CID I'm I'm okay with   that I just want to make sure it doesn't hold up  anything else so do is it possible to do that in   90 days and and then you know your July 1 might  still work um and then my second part to that   question is um knowing that this takes um the C  would be for 20 years um and kind of takes that   tool out of the tool boox for another project or  development within this District would it be fair   to say and I'm just making these numbers up after  two years we're going to um look at the actual   numbers and not the projected numbers for the CID  make sure it's performing as we think it's going   to and if it doesn't we need to figure something  else out um so that we don't get ourselves stuck   in a 20-year commitment that maybe doesn't  pan out like we thought it was going to I'm   hopeful that it does and and I am supportive of  that I just want to make sure that there's some   clawback or um some checkpoints along the way  to make sure that it makes still makes sense in   a couple years yeah so um I'm G to refer to my  legal counsel I like to play Junior attorney a   lot my my understanding is if or whatever reason  we find that after year one year two you probably   want to see at least a two year Rolling average  so that anyone year doesn't skew it um but if for   whatever reason it's not meeting the benchmarks  that we have kind of anticipated um I believe the   city can repeal uh the district and sort of  cancel terminate the district and then we're   kind of right back where we started and how long  would it potentially take to get signatures and   everybody get all that paperwork I don't know  what that looks like but yeah I would tell you   we probably need to know in in the next 30 and  again just because of purchasing equipment in   bulk there's bulk discounts there's cost savings  with um shipping and delivery and installation   and Tes I mean there's a whole reason why we  would try to do this sort of all at once we   probably ought to know in the next 30 45 days um  whether or not they're going to be able to achieve that that which has been set before them okay  okay last question is um regarding deleno so if   we choose a plan that is removing deleno what  does that mean for the future of delay no does   that mean after the Hub we have this conversation  again maybe this question for Bob um just there's   some concern that deleno has just found a way to  to get out of this parking deal and I just want   to be on the record for having a conversation of  what that plan could potentially look on moving   forward vice mayor the uh some of our previous  uh reports have talked about about waiting until   the Hub is complete and then monitoring what  happens and frankly working with the business   owners to determine if there's a time where they  want managed parking um and that could include   enforcement greater enforcement of the time limits  it could in include installation of equipment   especially just along the commercial corridors but  we at this point would wait to see how the parking   situation develops after the Hub is complete  there's been conversations that potentially   since we're buying the um infrastructure in  bulk would we be purchasing at this time the um   meters and such for to L now no okay thank you  council member John ston thank you mayor this   questions for legal Jennifer um what percent of  the businesses have to approve according to City   the council policy what percent of the businesses  have to approve a CID District under policy state   laws % Troy said city city policy is 100% just a  policy okay so that could be amended okay is it   based on square footage or the each individual  business or based on square footage like that owners so the petition has to be signed by  at least 55% of the OWN owners so again whether   that's a uh a calculation I'd have to go back  historically we've only ever done 100% so that   hasn't come into question I mean we could look and  see how that plays out but I would imagine that   it would be the number of property owners 55% of  the number of property owners it can be 55% of the   land area within the proposed District it could  be a square footage square footage okay thank you   I see no further questions for staff thank  you Troy we will now open it up for public   comment please state your name your address  and you will have five minutes to speak on this topic celest ret which Native live on the west  side I'm a former Chief internal auditor a for   former bank examiner a certified internal auditor  and a former fraud investigator there are three   heroes in My Mind regarding this public parking  issue and I want to give compliments to where   Compliments are due Heroes because they did their  job mayor Lily woo thank you for asking staff   questions and requesting additional information I  applaud you Witchita Eagle reporter Dion leer for   writing about the internal audit report uncovering  over $13 million in uncollected parking fees and   the City of wiah internal auditor I don't know  who they are but they conducted the audit and   wrote the audit findings there are still unknowns  about public parking that need to be addressed   and I speak based upon 25 years experience in  the financial industry including as a chief   internal auditor the city of Witchita did not  have an internal auditor for for three years I   spoke before some of you City Council Members  warning you of the dangers and the problems of   this situation I also pointed out the falsehoods  contained in the city of wiov financial statements   where references were made for the review by  the auditor of all contracts over $50,000 this   was not true this was also an administrative  regulation violation but I was ignored until   finally an internal auditor was hired in light of  the audit findings that Oldtown businesses have   not been paying parking according to the written  and signed and executed contract an audit should   be performed on Gander Mountain and the parking  fee arrangement for king of freight an audit   should also be performed on Fairfield Inn and the  parking fee arrangement for Jack debor properties   there may be other parking garage fee Arrangements  I have not mentioned as I do not work insides the   city of witchta but your internal auditor should  be allowed to broaden their audit to review all   parking garage agreements start there move on and  now here's what I expect that all of you are doing   as representatives of the city of Witchita and  as an elected city council member you should be   reviewing the audit reports of your internal  auditor you should be reviewing their audit   findings and looking at the recommended action to  correct those findings what was the recommendation   regarding this uncollected $13 million Revenue  what was the timeline for getting it fixed are you   following the audit findings to verify corrective  action has been taken over the years I have found   the kinmar developers did not repay a $2 million  loan Rodney Steven Genesis Jims did not repay   their $1 million loan time and time again when I  asked about these special developments and stood   before this Council and used my fin Financial  background and expertise to caution you about what   you were doing I was many times ignored I'm going  to read to you now something I said in the July   14th 2020 city council meeting king of freight  and Gander Mountain inforced their contract we   have not received the 400 new jobs promised  paying 50,000 per year we haven't received   any of the promised 60,000 annual parking garage  rental income and now the building is up for sale   who in City Hall is auditing contract  performance where is contract oversight   administrative regulation 2.1 provides for  contract oversight by the internal auditor   but there isn't an auditor there isn't oversight  you're in violation of your own administrative   regulations so the public has to remind you  of contract obligations are the contracts you   write so unimportant that no one bothers to  see if they are being enforced I closed with   this comment remember four years ago hire an  internal auditor stop new expensive development   deals using state tax credits cids tiffs  irbs Etc and cut back on visit wiah funds   monitor third-party contracts and open them up to  bidding it is not rocket science it is your job   it's what you're elected for again I applaud  the mayor Dion leer and the chief or city   internal auditor for doing their job  and I as a taxpayer applaud you thank you thank you Celeste vice mayor  Ballard thank you Mayor Bob can   you um how long has our internal  auditor been um in her position   Mr Mayor I'm not sure I know exactly it's at  least I believe at least two years okay and can   you speak to um how she knows what to audit or we  give her direction or if the rest of the contracts   uh that that Celeste is mentioning are either in  line or have already been audited every year she   goes through a risk assessment uh looking at our  city operations and where we have the uh greatest   possibility of risk works with the Departments to  help refine that analysis then she puts an annual   program together based on that risk an analysis  she also meets with mayor and council members if   I remember correctly quarterly goes through your  issues questions but at the same time reports to   you her findings on the audit reports that she's  prepared um and uh she has taken direction from   the council if you remember one of the reasons  this took a while is because we wanted to revise   the job description for that position and  we want wanted to bring in not just someone   who was qualified but someone who could report to  the mayor council and the city manager previously   was only to the manager so we added that level of  accountability as well and we do meet we as in the   council meet with um her regularly correct correct  um thank you also the other comment I wanted to   make is um this is my third year on Council and  um in the past well I should say during my time   on Council we have tightened up some of the um  development guidelines for developers and um maybe   look a little bit closer on how we want to um  approve incentives than maybe how they have been   in the past and it's always been important to me  to hold um developers or anybody for that matter   that is doing business business with the city to  hold them accountable um so we do have several   open lawsuits um because it's been important to me  so um I just wanted to make that comment uh after   the last speaker mayor I have a brief comment too  Celeste thank you for providing your comments I um   agree with a lot of what you said and uh because  of that after the last parking agreement on   November 27th um I had a meeting with the internal  auditor Christina Rose it was an incredible job so thank you for your comments you start  over council member Glascock oh yes yeah   sorry about that can you hear me there yes so  we can um yeah celest I just want to say thank   you for speaking bringing up a lot of your  points um I had a meeting with the internal   auditor on November 27th where I requested  uh this audit and um if you can send me via   email uh there's additional um uh request that  you had um I will make the same request to the   internal auditor as well so thank you for  providing those in my emails DG glasa wi. go thank you we will got council member hoisel  all right thank you mayor uh thank you Celeste um   appreciate you always holding our feet to the fire  um I do believe we have moved away from taking on   a lot more debt with um these incentives we've  moved uh pivoted more towards pay as you go over   over the last couple of years so um I agree with  you on the debt it's it's always um something we   need to take into account and I do believe we've  made um improvements in that area and also getting   Christina um hired that's been a great Boon uh a  number of other issues too that she's brought up   to our attention as well so we do communicate with  her uh we just met with her two weeks ago I think   she had her end of the year breakdowns with us to  show um some of the the concerns and some of the   results of her um internal audit so we're taking  advantage of her the best we can here thank you   C city manager I I'll just ask one more thing I  did not get the report from Christina so I know   that this was presented in our Green Sheet um  as her results I would like all council members   to get that report regarding this audit so that  again all seven of us have that same information we will continue with public comment good morning I'm Tim Dugger 924  West Douglas in deleno um I got to say I   agree with Miss rette and Mr leer on this  parking issue um I appreciate what mayor   woo has done bringing up these past um  indiscretions shall we say my question   first of all on to Troy the recommendation of  a with the smid is that exclude deleno at this   point yes for and then we'll come back and look at  it and I just want to be clear because we've had   a lot of options and okay that's a good start to  go forward I would I would ask the council members   this question what what is the purpose of a  Downtown parking plan is it to Simply monetize as   many parking spaces as we can to make up for past  ineptitude of past managers and counsels or is it   to enhance the downtown experience for customers  for people who want to come downtown is it to make   it easier is it to make business make them want to  come down spend time walk to different businesses   spend money pay taxes and sales tax Etc is that  what is the plan because some of this seems like   we're trying to monetize as many parking spaces  as we possibly can and again to make up for past   just ineptitude of councils and I mean how else  do you end up $18 million in debt I mean none of   us could get away with that as Citizens so  how does the city and then we're like well   this will cover it up so let's make sure we  know what we're doing and why we're doing it I   do appreciate that at least deleno has been heard  and that we don't want our on street parking with   parking meters what that means to your average  client is I'm not going to run into the candle   shop in deleno I'm going to go to the one in  Bradley Fair or New Market because I can just   park there run in get Mom a Christmas present and  go and then leave here if we do you know doing   these par on street parking is again is telling  people we don't want you to come to these small   businesses I have talked to small businesses  in the downtown area parking's out of Premium   nobody Minds Park paying for lots and garages you  get something out of the deal why we have to mess   with the on street parking I'm not sure but anyway  I appreciate being heard I appreciate what mayor   woo has done I Mr Glascock I know you're up  there somewhere I appreciate what you've done   and um again just ask ourselves what are we  voting on is it to enhance the experience for   the citizens or is it to raise money monetize and  try to cover up past mistakes of the council and   of of City management thank you thank you  Tim vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor um   Mr manager could you please explain that the  $18 million in deferred maintenance will not   be paid for by this parking plan moving forward  I think you just did um there's a recommendation   on how to um uh work through the existing CIP in  order to over a I think through 2033 to address   deferred maintenance issues in the garages  without Revenue anticipated from the parking   system and then what would happen is Surplus  in the parking system would be put aside for   ongoing maintenance and improve that are necessary  after that thank you we'll continue with public comment good morning my name is Darren Adel Gren  I'm the general manager of the pump house at 825   East 2 Street in Oldtown the The Pump House  started in 1931 when Bob Ross opened it as   a gas station service station servicing the  warehouse District of downtown Witchita the   area that would eventually become Oldtown  in 2005 Jim and Judy Ross still operating   the station some 74 years later had a decision  to make and that was whether or not to sell the   property to one of the many developers who had  been sniffing around knowing that Oldtown was   growing or figure out a way to do it themselves  and determine what the destiny of the pump house   was going to be they chose the latter as members  of the Witchita community and direct stakeholders   in the success of Oldtown we believe the city's  prop proposed paid parking plan is shortsighted   and harmful to the Witchita economy instead We  Believe adopting the 2% CID sales tax is a far   more beneficial solution for maintaining our  parking infrastructure and supporting local   businesses like the pump house I I myself have  worked in Oldtown for over 30 years 17 of those   years working at the pump house I once considered  Oldtown to be the crown jewel of downtown witcha many businesses in Oldtown have closed their doors  completely covid did not help parts of the area   are now overwhelmed by issues of homelessness  neglect and a perception that Oldtown is an   unsafe area to visit adding paid parking will only  compound those issues and give people yet another   reason to avoid the area we believe a c sales  tax offers a better path forward by funding the   necessary improvements maintenance and hopefully  revitalizing the area without overtly penalizing   V visitors we believe a CID would spread the costs  indirectly being embedded in the cost of goods and   services rather than being an upfront fee visitors  may seem less concerned with a small increase on   on their on their purchases whereas a direct  parking fee is an immediate and highly visible   cost that will deter people from visiting Oldtown  paid parking paid parking also forces visitors to   constantly be watching the clock worrying about  meters expiring or getting a ticket in a fine   the CID would allow visitors to stay as long  as they want enjoying a stressfree experience   that people are accustomed to the proposed  parking plan will impose unnecessary burdens   on visitors discouraging them from visiting  Oldtown businesses people being accustomed   to the current parking system May opt for  other shopping and entertainment districts   where parking parking remains free implementing  a $1 per hour or a five to10 daily fee creates a   psychological barrier that will hurt restaurants  retail shops and entertainment venues like the   pump house in contrast the C would spread the  cost more equitably among all purchases made   in the district allowing visitors to enjoy  hassle-free parking promoting longer VIs   visits and encouraging spending in local  establishments without fear of racking   up parking fees we urge the city council to  reconsider a paid parking plan and adopt a c   necessary to fund the parking maintenance  that we all know is needed and something   is going to happen so that's uh that's it  and thank you for your time appreciate it thank you Darren we will continue with public comment good morning Rachel Thomas Murphy Thomas  Gray Interiors located at 121 North me Suite 107   good morning members of city council I'm here  on behalf of the witcha Oldtown Association   to express our support for option e as the best  solution to address parking concerns in Oldtown   after thorough valuation the Oldtown Association  board has unanimously voted in favor of option e   with two members abstaining due to conflicts  of interest this recommendation was not made   lightly we believe that this option is the least  disruptive to the district while preserving the   historic and aesthetic character of Oldtown a  Cornerstone of its identity is wit's designated   historic Entertainment District however we  understand that this option comes with additional   Financial considerations option e includes the  establishment of a community improvement district   with a 2% sales tax and increase non- retail  parking agreements to $15 per space per month   these measures are necessary to finance Operations  Security maintenance and enforcement of parking   time limits while this is a significant step we  believe it's a fair and sustainable approach that   balances Revenue generation with the needs of our  district let me emphasize a few key points number   one Oldtown uniqueness merits a tailored solution  Oldtown operates under stricter regulations than   any other part of the city from architecture and  signage to landscaping and even fencing around   mechanical equipment businesses face challenges  unique to this District adding parking meters   on top of these restrictions would only further  hinder our ability to attract new new business   and maintain the district's vibrancy two this plan  respects old Town's identity unlike other areas of   downtown Oldtown historic boundaries defined as  the north side of Douglas to Third Street and the   west side of Washington to the railroad tracks  should should guide this parking plan creating a   separate parking system for Oldtown aligns with  its distinct role and character within Witchita   number three old Oldtown has been a consistent  partner with the city for over 20 years Oldtown   has been the only District consistently supporting  the city's maintenance fund we've proven our   commitment to work collaboratively with the  city and option e ensures that our District's   unique needs and contributions are recognized in  the parking solution Oldtown remains a vibrant   destination for witchin and visitors alike it is  home to locally owned shops restaurants Galleries   and entertainment venues that play a key role in  defining witt's cultural landscape implementing   a plan that preserves this identity will while  addressing parking challenges is crucial to the   district's long-term success we urge you to  support option e as the most balanced least   disruptive and historically mindful Choice thank  you for your time and for considering the future   of Oldtown as part as which of which to's broader  Vision thank you thank you Rachel council member   John ston thank you mayor first of all Rachel  thank you for serving on my Deb I appreciate   that being a fellow westsider um I do want to  clarify West Side the best side side the best   side that's right no no um I do want to clarify  that that what you're talking about is not the   old option e it's kind of been renamed by staff  as option A- smid yeah that's where we talking   about yes Absolut every parking meeting that I've  been to we've been releasing new information and   the Rel the the new parking plan today would be  what you just stated okay it's it's kind of a   variation of the old option e but yes it's  actually called now A- smid a-h smid a Das   smid so yeah new name new name thank you Rachel  thank you we will continue with public comments hi there I'm Stan Sheldon with Sheldon  architecture and we're uh located at 800   East First Street I've recently purchased the 115  North me building uh just a block from my current   office and will'll be relocating our headquarters  to that building which we are super excited about   um by the way that's the first time that's  been said publicly anywhere so uh gosh I guess   everybody knows now so uh we're super excited  about the fact that the city actually wants to   make sure that we enhance uh all of our public  parking and pay for it I'm all in favor of that   I think it's a very inspiring thing to see you  guys taking this on and making sure we can get   good parking and make sure it's maintained well  I think that's fantastic I work with developers   all the time that that the parking situation is  definitely almost the first thing that comes up   in every conversation I have with the building  owner how are we going to handle the parking   whether it's downtown or out in the burps it's  always a parking issue so I'm really excited   about the fact that you guys are tackling this  so it's really a good thing we've got to pay for   it um user fees or in this case the sales tax I  believe is definitely the best way to handle it   the way that we T the uh option a smid uh yeah  so I I think that's a I personally think you   know I've had a couple things people said hey  well so many cities have this different kind   of plan they all pay for parking and meters  and other things and and we're not and that   seems almost embarrassing maybe or like we're  really behind we've we we get people from out   of town coming to our office fairly often from  Consultants to clients and others that come to   Witchita to visit our office and I just recently  had a some superstars from the Boston area and   from Florida come to our office to meet with us  because we were going after a project Here Local   and they were blown away and thought it was an  amazingly friendly thing the way we do handle   a parking is it being funded well enough right  now no let's figure out how to fund it better   but do we just do it by throwing meters out there  for everybody to have to work on or do we do it   through more of this sales tax approach I think  it's a really really good approach it's a user   fee it's people that are using or paying for it  uh in a real direct way way through that uh that   sales tax so I think that's a really great way  to handle uh uh um assessing additional cost and   then charging the building owners the actual  cost of the parking stalls on a per per month   basis based on permits that they pull when they  build a uh when they build out space that's the   way it's it's done today you build out a certain  amount of square foot uh and your building is then   assessed how many parking stalls that would  take then there a fee that's attached to that   building permit for those per year costs adjust  that make that make sense but then it's easy for   the customer it's easy for the client it's easy  for my employees it's easy for those Consultants   all those people to trans you know to to move  and and park and make it work we just really   like that approach a lot it's been very friendly  and I've had so many positive com comments from   clients and also consultants and out a out a  State people that have come to visit us have   thought wow this is a friendly place to be how'  you guys do this really cool thing I think we   ought to think about that as a as a differentiator  in a positive sense as opposed to feeling negative   about it so I think we ought to just handle it in  a in a little different way the sales tax option   I think is a really smart way to do it thank  you stand we will continue with public comment morning everybody how are you today I'm Mor sheets  with Morts martinia cigar bar and him who actually   runs Morts martinia Cigar Bar um we came today  because um I've been down here 29 years now and   I go under the original laws that we were paying  $7.50 and we've never having a problem with it um   problems we've ever had at mors is probably some  of the other maintenance issues that we have   with lighting and Landscaping um and of course  homelessness that we're all trying everybody's   trying to do their best and that's another thing  we'll tackle some other time but I really feel   as though it's best to pay to play and uh so him  would like to talk in Greater depth about what it   is that we see best for mors and for htown and um  we've got a lot of people in this room right here   SP he of a lot of money in that market and a lot  of comments were made that the market is starting   to slide a bit can't afford to have a slide  we spent hundreds and hundreds of millions of   dollars on Arenas and bringing carg and bringing  other things back down there we need get rid of   the dirty part of it and make that the show piece  again we're already hitting people hotel tax we're   already getting for sales tax we're getting for  every tax we can get when I my wife and said go   put a credit card in that there going to be you  know boxes of packages shooting out of presents   she's not going to get out of the car and put a  lot of the people that are going to be down there   that you're going to ask just to F their car they  don't want to give you their numbers they don't   trust anybody a lot of those machines that you're  going to put out there they're going to be gone   the first six months for a year I see in here that  how much money you're spending to to get it up and   get it started why don't we phase it in and see if  it works before we go and buy the whole things we   go do what everything do a phase of it and see  if it works before we go buy all of them very   to buying bicycles electric bikes and find a  third of them in the river let's just be smart   with your money that's why we hired you guys  to be smart with our money and trust anything   that you guys think is right because uh overall  I think you give our best interest apart I just   had to say I I I really think that going by the  hour is wrong I'm not going to be able to have a   good drink in Works to go see a movie have a good  dinner be want to run out punch a clock uh that's   just not fun to me and I'm not going to drive  by 25 other bars to it downtown to go to mors   when I can park right up the front door and pay  just as much if not less and mors we still pay   for music too so in addition we'd have to charge  4% I'm want to take that risk if that's what you   guys feel is best for much thank you good morning  mayor and Council uh Emma Johnson uh one of the   owners of Morts um as he said we've been open for  almost 29 years I've been downtown for 27 of those   um it it's been uh amazing to watch it grow but  it's also been a labor of love um we are very   Pro the 2% C and we're very much for the raise in  uh fees we have been paying a low rate but we've   been paying that bill that and the only Bill that  we've gotten every month for all of that time we   would have paid an increase if we were ever asked  to pay that increase that's absolutely for sure um   and I don't I don't disagree that that should  have happened a long time ago uh but so many   things that my and Darren from the pump house have  said um there's a lot of pieces about Oldtown that   that people love the the ability to have a free  and easy ability it's an Entertainment District   you're supposed to be able to bounce around from  one place to another and not be concerned about   having to make sure that you have enough time  on your meter um the I have the concern about   my staff where are they going to park um if we  leave at 3:00 in the morning you know how far   away are they going to have to be um how much  are they going to have to pay there's so many   pieces to the Oldtown District that make it a  better situation to to go with a CID and the   increased fees on the business um I could tell you  that uh even Chris Arnold from um the the brewery   who wasn't able to be here this morning is also  Pro CID There's No Business downtown that I have   talked to that is not pro CID and increased fees  to keep the environment of Oldtown the same the   the the free and easy um Entertainment District  that we have thank you for your time thank very much thank you Emma Mor we just said Thank  you Emma and Mory we'll continue with public comment good morning I'm AJ Schwartz the CEO  of the Morris Lang Law Firm at 300 North me in   Oldtown Square uh our firm has been a tenant in in  downtown witto for nearly 80 years now uh and we   were one of the original tenants in Oldtown Square  we're uh not not an Entertainment District uh or   entertaining uh uh business but we're very much in  favor of the asmid uh option here uh we would be   on the the $15 a a slot and not paying sales tax  obviously going forward but but uh it just doesn't   work for our practice to have meters out there we  we have uh lots of estate planning attorneys that   have uh elderly people come in and they're  not going to want to U pump a meter and the   hassle of that we have people from all over the  country as the architect said uh come in and and   we don't know how long those meetings are going  to last it it it just is not workable for us and   don't want to have to have uh a decision uh in my  partnership as to whether we stay downtown or go   somewhere where uh it'll work for us so uh don't  want to take up any more of your time but I want   to strongly uh endorse that Aid option thank you  thank you AJ we'll continue with public comment good morning I'm Russ Hazelwood with grael and  Hazelwood we're at 218 North Mosley we also own   a company called essential Consultants that owns  the building at 218 North Mosley uh I also own   a building with some Partners in deleno um but  principally I'm here to talk about our Law Firm   which has been in the building at 218 North  Mosley which is right in the heart of Oldtown   since 2011 going back back to this issue about  what old people El toown people have paid we   get a bill we didn't know I frankly when we for  since 2011 we've gotten a bill from the city of   Witchita we didn't know what Authority the city  of Witchita had to charge us for parking we paid   the bill when it came in when this came up I  said yeah if you guys you think it ought to be   substantially more I'd probably say that's fair U  but but I wasn't even aware there was a contract   until this issue came up um our problem is not  more money we're happy we're happy as a firm to   to contribute more money to the parking situation  especially if it makes Oldtown a cleaner and safer   Place uh what we are against is having meters in  front of our offices with no real options for our   clients many of whom are elderly many of whom are  injured uh some of which whom don't have uh cell   phones and and in some cases don't have money  it wouldn't be unusual for a law firm to pay to   validate parking however this the parking pass  situation gives us no real ability to do that   and as Mr Schwarz just said a lot of times we  have things like mediations and depositions   where people are there all day and uh I don't  want to get into a circumstance where people   say we're not going to conduct this mediation  or this deposition or do this business at your   office because of your parking situation if  our lawyers spend all of our time driving to   other people's uh offices we're not going to be  able to make the money that we need uh to to to   support this business and support the parking  uh so we would I can't remember I think it's a   smid is the old e or whatever I get confused  about that but we we would support something   where you increase our parking uh uh what  we pay per slot and increase the the sales   tax and that's what we'd ask you to do  thank you Russ we'll continue with public comment good morning everybody my name Ty Isa and  I'm the owner of Larkspur I've been downtown an   Oldtown since 1999 uh and thank you for hosting  this uh we're talking about the parking issue but   the joke been uh for a year among our customers we  can't find a park in here yet I replied and I say   I pay for parking fee yet you can't find a park  in uh there part of it and I heard we have over   thousand uh stalls uh my question installing  uh parking meters I'm trying to picture that   a parking meter uh will generate more income uh  to maintain the parking lot uh in Oldtown uh that   will reduce our business uh Oldtown has suffered  after covid by looking at our sales uh after covid   uh it's been declining on an average five to  s% every year now by installing Park and meter   we're going to do an unfair competition which is  you're going to ask the people to come to Oldtown   to pay to go eat at any of these restaurants down  there well that doesn't help increas in sales down   there or Draw more customers so proposing uh of  the 2% CID it's not a bad idea in my opinion and   uh it does not create a competition uh  on us but I'll tell you now installing   parking metering down there uh I will put my  restaurant for sale it's that simple thank you thank you Ty we'll continue with public comment good morning whoa Tyler Cooper I'm  the president of Boulevard theaters uh soon   to be opening in Oldtown uh 353 North  me um so the current situation where   the businesses in Oldtown are the only  funding source for the entire downtown   deleno and Oldtown parking fund is clearly  unfair and clearly imbalanced we all accept   the fact that we all the businesses in the  downtown Corridor need to be doing more the   mission of the city council is to provide  policy direction for the city of witchta   in developing implementing and maintaining  the services of the city kicking the perbal   can down the road neither implements maintains  or develops our city we all know that we need   to do something about this now witow is one of  the largest cities as vice mayor Balor pointed   out that does not have a paid parking plan I'd  like to say consumer paid parking plan because   as we all know there are some businesses  that are paying for this but the consumers don't sorry I had notes and I lost my place it's  under understandable to think that a consumer paid   parking plan would deter businesses would be deter  business from coming downtown but clearly these   larger cities and smaller cities than witto have  had these plans in place and it is not entirely   detoured there's not these ghost towns around  these parking districts in other cities other   larger cities thrive in these downtown districts  that have parking plans as a business and property   owner in Oldtown I'd love to be able to tell  people that it is free to park in Oldtown but   the parking plan needs to be congruent across  Oldtown downtown and deleno creating different   parking plans in these three areas creates an  unequal Advantage for businesses and property   owners who are neighbors a business on one side  of the street gets plan A and a business on the   other gets Plan B this will confuse customers  which brings me to another point that this is   dramatically confusing the parking plan needs to  be easy to explain easy to understand customers   need to be able to easily identify how to pay for  parking when to pay for parking Again by having   this bifurcated approach creates unequal Advantage  between businesses most importantly using the CID   and all town is a gross misuse of a tool that is  meant to help developers and businesses invest in   a project and make it work if the CID is used in  Oldtown to cover parking fees this tool becomes   unavailable to anyone who is wanting to invest  in Oldtown for the next 20 years while projects   that happen in downtown and deleno would have  this tool available to them again creating an   unequal advantage and disadvantage for some  areas and projects this decision is not easy   no matter what we choose there will be people  against it and the people that are against it   are typically louder than the rest regardless of a  de regardless a decision needs to be made and one   that moves witto forward in a fiscally responsible  way that helps develop Implement maintain the   service of the citizens of witto I ask that you  do not support the CID for parking in Oldtown   and support a plan that is equal and balanced  between downtown deleno and Oldtown I'll stand for questions thank you Tyler thank  you we'll continue with public comment hello my name is Isaac Barker and I am  the manager of the 209 North Emporia Hollywood   apartments um obviously on the 200 block  of Emporia and obviously I want to start   by thanking you guys for taking this is isue on  I know it's not a popular thing oh I know it's   not a popular thing and um so uh but obviously  it's something that's need to be addressed um   the current plan isn't sustainable so I totally  get why we're here today um but what I want to   talk about is a proposal or an amendment to  one of these plans and I apologize if this is   addressed in one of the proposed plans already I  know there's been a lot of changes and stuff but   uh the complex that I own and manage has 24 units  and has about residents who completely uh rely on   on street parking as I don't have an apartment  or I don't have a parking lot for my complex   and um so uh those tenants are about two blocks  away from a city parking lot as well and I want   to thank Maggie and Troy specifically who've been  helping me kind of navigate and figure out all of   this and I understand that there's a possibility  that there's a lower fee for residents that would   rely on on street parking and um I am just asking  that we can consider a lower fee for those people   who who have to rely on that as I know it's it's  probably a small Niche amount of people as most   places downtown who have apartment complexes have  a parking lot and so it's just a non-issue for   those people but um I know all of the different  development plans and ideas that we have for the   downtown area um want to make it affordable for  people to live downtown and and we want to make   it easier and more convenient for people to live  downtown and I'm worried that this is going to   be the opposite of that for my tenants and um  so that's it I I appreciate your time I again   I'm just asking that there would be an option  whether a complex could rent some spots in   front of them or if there would be an option for  those who reside in the downtown area to qualify   for more affordable option thank you for your time  thank you Isaac we'll continue with public comment my name is relle Grady and I'm with Perry Reed  properties we actually have seven properties in   the downtown area and then we also have one in  deleno so um these parking proposals will d uh   affect um all of my residents just following up  he was a property um owner/manager um I think the   biggest thing with the property management in the  downtown area is that currently we're experiencing   um some vacancy throughout the city um so we  are experiencing that in the downtown area we've   already had phone calls from current residents  um and people inquiring about um apartments in   the downtown area and whether or not um there's  going to be paid parking um I agree with the   gentleman that was just up here um we do have some  properties that have ample parking um but most do   not and most do use the city parking so I just  don't know what that's exactly going to look at   like for our residents if they do have to pay for  that parking and secondly everyone has friends and   relatives that come and visit them um so it's not  a very friendly environment to have to have them   come downtown and pay for their parking to see  their loved ones or just to come hang out um or   do any of that so my strong support is for the  2% um tax sales tax increase um I just really   want you guys to consider this because there is a  lot of there's a lot of apartments in the downtown   area and this will directly affect all those  people I just would hate to see it be hard harder   to be able to keep our properties  full and keep these Investments   going thank you for your time thank  you relle we'll continue with public Comon good morning my name is Heather schroer  I'm executive director of downtown Witchita   I'm here on behalf of the downtown Witch Board  uh which voted uh several years ago to support   the 2019 uh parking and multim Mobility plan  uh the downtown witcha board supports option   A as the most uh is the plan that most closely  resembles um that original plan that they had   voted to support um I'm hearing a lot of well let  me go back for a second um downtown wiah is also   known as the wiah Downtown Development Corporation  and we administer um the self-supported municipal   improvement district on behalf of downtown  Property Owners to provide an additional   layer of services uh within the most heavily  used District of our city um so I'm happy to   answer any questions about um this smid at a later  time um I'm hearing a lot of fear today from the   community about what paid parking will mean this  is something that will be new for Witchita uh new   in the past 20 years anyway um as a lot of our  previous parking infrastructure has been removed   I understand that with um with change comes  fear and um it's one of my goals on behalf of   downtown Witchita to be able to um help educate  our consumers um down downtown whether they be   Property Owners or or business owners or fellow  residents of downtown like myself um so I wanted   to go through uh with the remainder of my time  some of the fears that have been exhibited today   and counter those with facts one of the fears is  that metered parking will drive customers away   Studies have shown that people who pay for metered  parking stay in a downtown district longer they   like to get their money's worth uh for example  they say I still have a half hour on my meter um   let's go grab a coffee or stop into one more shop  um a fear exhibited is that the CID will solve   parking enforcement funding challenges in Oldtown  um a fact is that CID is a development tool   and if we misappropriate that funding tool for  parking uh we will not be able to use that for   redevelopment in the same district over the  next 20 years a fear is that customers will   worry about feeding the meter and won't be able  to hop around and enjoy their experience downtown   a fact is that parking will be free during  most of the entertainment District's hours   um as stated by staff it will be free after 6 pm  on weekdays after 900 P p.m Friday and Saturdays   and all day on Sundays a fear is that the 2-hour  limit on meters is uh is insufficient uh for the   time of of meetings a fact is that uh off street  parking offers A reduced rate day rate uh that may   be more appropriate for customers uh to downtown  who plan to stay for more than two hours uh a fear   is that Oldtown um has been supporting maintenance  costs for all of downtown through previous payment   structures a is that old Town's payments um have  been in a $13 million deficit to cover those costs   um a fear is that Oldtown uh is different and  needs free parking for their customers a fact is   that a railroad bridge separates Oldtown from the  rest of this mid District or the downtown um and   customers are mobile uh people like free parking  they will seek out the free parking um and then   there is a lack of enforcement for that parking  so it's easy to picture customers of bite me   barbecue or um or Norton's parking a block away in  Oldtown and walking thereby further congesting the   available free parking that's being subsidized uh  through businesses in Oldtown um as Tyler pointed   out it's an unfair policy to Oldtown businesses  to charge them for their customers parking whereas   other businesses just blocks away don't have the  same obligation um um as Mr Isa uh stated um he   pays for parking for customers at Larkspur but  it's not guaranteed spaces for those customers   a fear is that paid parking will kill business  a fact is that the 22 other Midwestern cities   in the top 100 in the US have paid parking they  have these systems and that zero of them have   repealed it due to a negative impact on their  businesses a fear is that parking is expensive   for downtown residents like myself a fact is that  City controlled and owned parking facilities helps   to control the cost of market rate parking uh  the market rate parking garage or or Surface lot   won't charge a non-competitive rate uh because the  city helps keep that cap in place thank you very much thank you heather can I just ask  Troy to quickly um just go over plan   a smid regarding will there be meters or no meters   and how a smid is different than e  can you pull up the slide deck real fast perfect so um and actually what I'll  do is I'll go here so um under as smid right   the recommendation is to move forward with  meters in pricing in downtown and in Oldtown   that's that's the strategy right the dollar per  hour the $5 all day the monthly rate so on and   so forth excludes Delano but the recommendation  is to move forward with a plan that puts meters   and pricing in downtown and in Old Town the  conversation that you've been hearing about   um uh about a c sales tax and about agreements  with property owners uh or business owners that   are not retail establishments that are not  generating sales tax does not exist today   right and there's there's an there's a desire by  a number of those Property Owners business owners   to put together a request to have that CID and  those contracts approved and entered into but as   of today that does not exist so a recommendation  is unless and until that is packaged presented   to city council and subsequently approved by  city council that we continue to move forward   with meters in pricing both in downtown and  in Oldtown again just because we have no idea   whether or not that will ever come to fruition  or not right there are certain benchmarks that   are required to establish a CID there are certain  agreements that are going to have to be entered   into with non- retail businesses right how do  we start dealing with those businesses that may   disagree with establishing or entering into those  agreements right so a lot of what you've heard are   alternatives to option A smid right but less and  until those things come to fruition option A smid   is a recommendation to move forward with the  acquisition the installation the testing and   the activation of meters and pricing in downtown  and in Oldtown excluding deleno unless and until   such time as that CAD with 2% sales tax and all of  those additional Agreements are packaged delivered   to the city reviewed and approved by city council  does that answer your question council member   Johnston thank you mayor um I just texted Tyler  Cooper of uh Boulevard theaters which take over   the theaters and uh staff has told him that  the CID will be the best way for him to get   some funds for the the theater so uh hopefully  there's another Revenue but uh he did say that   he would support a sales tax if if it uh if he did  not support paid parking meters in in Oldtown for   his theater so but he wanted to use the tool of  the C to get money for his theater um there are   other avenues I I guess my question is to staff  are there other avenues for him to get help with   that theater to revitalize it and open it things  like that so tools again we've gone through kind   of the laundry list of Economic Development tools  that we have in our tool box really really high   level there's property tax abatement property  tax rebate there's sales tax abatement there   sales tax rebate generally the property tax  abatement and rebate programs so for example   tax increment financing which we I think about  6 n months ago maybe a little older than that   we actually just closed out the tax incoming  financing District that was used to renovate   the theater previously the challenge with the tax  increment financing on an existing building where   there's not a change in usage you're probably not  going to see an increase in valuation significant   enough to really use tax increment financing  as a tool to reinvest in an existing building   use so on and so forth so for a business like a  theater which is primarily driven by sales tax   right uh sale of ticket prices sale of um popcorn  and soda and and concessions right for for that   particular use a c sales tax reite is probably  one of the best tools again uh kind of alluding   to uh council member Ballard's conversation a  comments a little while ago about a change in   our policies and procedures as it relates to  economic development right it would have to   be what we've talked to them about is they would  need to make the investment upfront right in what   a what we call a pay as you go kind of scenario  right so we're we're Shifting the risk to the   owner developer um we're removing the taxpayer  risk from that investment right they have to make   that investment first and then depending on how  successful their business model is the sales taxes   that they're generating can go back to repay them  for that capital capital investment if a cad is   used to again so in that same scenario right all  of these businesses sign on for a CID sales tax   that sales tax goes back into providing parking  management and maintenance of those public assets   like on street off Street structured parking  so on and so forth especially at the 2% cap   none of those other property owners none of those  other business owners can take advantage of that   sort of Economic Development tool because it's  already being used for other eligible programs   and services does that answer your question yeah  it does I appreciate that a follow with question   is right now it takes 100% of the business owners  to approve a CID what would be the process and how   long would it take to lower that to 80% whatever  that is or state 55% state of debt it it's a   Council policy so the council if presented with a  petition that say 80% the council could wave the   policy for this one specific purpose and keep  in place the 100% for other projects in the   future would we make that motion today or would  it be the future Mee it' be in all likelihood it   be if at the time a CID petition is submitted to  you okay thank you I do also want to address the   issue of incentives for the theater the city  has provided incentives for the construction   of that building and its use as a theater I'd  have a little concern regarding how much more   involvement we would have especially since we've  also invested in infrastructure through parking   to support that fac that that building as well  as other buildings in the um Oldtown square area   thank you I'd be with that council member John Sun  thanks mayor question qu are we still in public   comment or we back I'll wait council member hoisel  thank you mayor um just a quick question about the   C I kind of was hitting around at it earlier um  would it be possible to have discussions with   the theater owner about potentially including  something in the plan or um any potential CID   when it comes to us I you know I think we need  to support the theater the best we can it is a   big draw to to Oldtown um so I I'm just curious  as to whether or not that could be part of the equation so I mean theoretically anything that's  eligible under state law um as a reimbursable   expense under that sales tax program could  be used to reimburse for that Improvement any   dollars that are taking away from parking parking  management right and parking maintenance and put   towards something else is just going to have to  be made up somewhere else okay I appreciate that   thanks Troy thank you Troy we will continue with  public comment are there any other individuals   who would like to speak during public comment  regarding parking I see none or I see someone good morning mayor city council my name is Vincent  hanock I'm in the deleno neighborhood we have   this wonderful group called Delena United we're a  Community Development Coalition which is comprised   of businesses residents and churches who want to  see Dela move forward just this last week our vice   mayor helped us celebrate 25 years of planning  through first the 2001 delanta plan then the   2019 delanta plan to convert a rail to Trail and  come up with the new awesome thing that we call   the chis and Trail Parkway thank you Maggie for  being there these are the types of things that a   local area group needs to be in charge of and so  I do ask you when it comes to our parking to honor   the 2019 Delo neighborhood plan which clearly  says that any changes in parking which we do   talk about the importance of parking in that plan  that needs to be done by Dela United and everyone   I've talked to said with the upcoming changes to  the having the Hub involved we we're not saying   that we need to be completely out of parking  we just need to wait for the timing to be more appropriate I also have some comments about  just being a witch citizen involved in parking   all over this town after a three month delay  I finally received some responses about our   current income through parking I had to ask  for it and eventually did to get three little   pieces staff's previous presentation as they  went around the dog and pony show through the   community talked about how we needed to get $3  to $400 per parking space per month to make this   plan work so let's look at some actual income  numbers from August of this year the block one   garage at 360 East William strength brought in  around six GR land it has 253 parking spaces   that's $24 a space we're losing money on that  garage according to staff's recommendations   just outside that door the City Hall Parking  Lot 455 North Main pulled in 20 grand in the   month of August has 162 spaces did we hit our  250300 Mark nah we averaged $125 per space we're going to have to make some changes and  we're going to have to have somebody on staff who   understands basic math of income versus expenses  to make this work because what we're doing isn't   working oh and by the way for the entire month  of August our total take for parking meters was   a goose EG which is exactly what we're paying to  maintain on street parking spaces because it comes   out of the park out out of Street Maintenance  there's no maintainance of that we need to Define   specific measurable goals of success are we having  parking management so that we can have a good   turnover in parking at availability for people to  be able to park if they plan on patronizing one of   businesses are we trying to take care of garages  that the city inherited that are $18 million in   debt or something that why in the world do we have  mentioned in capital Improvement projects arterial   sidewalks and traffic signals those are not  part of maintaining parking those are auxiliary   traffic functions which need to be paid out of  the normal tax methods of doing it that those   three line items are just completely absurd and I  want you to understand that there's an alternative   dictionary or glossery that the developers  really understand about this when you hear a   developer or a someone in Economic Development  tell you about parking management what they're   really talking about is a way to shift parking  costs from develop Vel opers to drivers when you   hear them talk about walkability that's actually  just a developer code word that translates into   I can make more rent money per acre when I don't  have to build pay to build parking lots we need   to have transparency so that we we need to  have all of these income numbers published   on a monthly basis on the city website income and  expenditures per lot per garage and per the paring   meters because it's obvious that it's mismanaged  for decades now and I promise you this is just   the tip of the iceberg there are already plans  in place that this project will be followed by a   request to remove developer parking minimums from  the zoning code so the developers can make even   more money per acre and we won't have any place  to park I'll stand for questions council member   hoisel thank you mayor uh Vincent appreciate  you coming up here um when you talk about   sidewalks and the street lights and um stop lights  and whatnot is that part of the CID proposal that   you're speaking of I'm talking about the slide  where it talked about cap the $15 million of   Capital Improvements and it was saying sidewalks  and I'm completely fine with my tax dollars paying   for a sidewalk wherever it is in this town okay  if that's part of the CID um 10% of the CID is   supposed to go towards um public amenities like  that bus stop sidewalk improvements and whatnot so   I'm wondering if that's part of what you're seeing  um the second um it's not poetry Parkway excuse   me poetry Parkway Chism Trail Parkway Chism Trail  Parkway you didn't support poetry to be funny and   it's not working I'm yeah if you have to explain  the joke it's not funny appreciate you too bud   point point taken thank you vinc thank you Council  vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor um I would just   say I have mentioned uh many times s that uh I  think in the latest parking study it shows that   we only use 38 or 39% of our parking and so we  have a lot of surface lots and other spaces uh   in the core that we are paying to maintain and  it's not being utilized so I definitely would   not be opposed to looking at some of um the  zoning um potential zoning changes that reduce   the requirement of number of spaces if it makes  sense in that situation because we have so many   empty lots that we should be paying to maintain  that aren't bringing in any money and that's why   our money is spread so thin for parking and it's a  big goose egg that we um collected for enforcement   because we have no enforcement right now so that  that's why definitely no enforcement and just as a   briefer go ahead dton council member Glascock  oh I just said I echoed the the vice mayor I understand it would require expense and time  but you heard me in a previous previous council   meeting talk about my distrust of the parking  study that was done because in my neighborhood   in particular we know that we have about 98  to 99% occupancy rates up and down Douglas   and to come up with the number that we had a 50%  occupant rate occupancy rate they included the   houses that were a block and a half away from  the stadium and I maintain who's going to be   parking in front of their own house at 9:30 in  the morning when you're doing a parking study   it was a completely bogus statistic to include  those I'm up for making decisions based on data   but we don't have the financial data and I think  that the parking study was biased I think we need   to redo it so we're doing none of us wants us to  lose money but we've got to do the math to make   it move forward thank you for your time we'll  continue with public comment regarding paring good morning Christopher Parish show president  delting United um I did want to start by   addressing a comment that was made in the November  meeting after I spoke it wasn't directed at me but   it was a general comment and basically it was that  there wasn't there wasn't that many people at the   the meeting opposed to the plan um many people  spoke at the various other in-person meetings   that the city hosted all around downtown and just  outside of downtown over the months preceding the   November meeting um not everybody can come to  the in-person meetings it doesn't matter whether   they're daytime or nighttime it it doesn't  matter whether they're here at City Hall or   the library or one of the many other different  facilities where the meetings were held those   who can't attend the in-person meetings have  made choices to express their opinions online   and I think it's highly disrespectful of  those people to disregard their opinions   just because they chose to make them online the  city has social media pages and puts out press   releases and solicits feedback through multiple  different online sources so to then dismiss or   disregard those opinions just because that's the  venue they came from is highly disrespectful um   back to the issue at hand um one of the or more of  the options presented activates deleno after the   Hub is completed that was a concern I expressed  in November and I was told that wouldn't happen   without coming back to city council but based  on the presentation today I'm not entirely sure   that the coming back to city council is accurate  is that true or not um just because other cities   do something doesn't mean we have to I would  think that not having the additional expense   of paid parking for visitors and patrons would  be a positive selling point for wiah and based   on some of the comments that were made by a lot  of the people here from Oldtown that's the case   we should capitalize on how we're different  we should be the leader and not the follower um as far as the $18 million in deferred  maintenance if it's not being paid for by   this plan then why do we need this plan just  implement the plans that we already have in   place such as the Oldtown plan bring it back  up to where it should be at this point in time   and you're getting another half a million  dollar in Revenue that could be applied to   maintaining the existing infrastructure if  we've got infrastructure that's only being   used roughly a third of the time look at what  infrastructure could just be sold get it off   the city books alt together reduce the costs  before you start saying to the people we need   to increase how much you're going to pay through  whatever Revenue Source you're going to use um   $13 million over the last 20 25 years of lost  revenue is a huge oversight recently the parks   director was terminated over a $3,000 oversight  so who's going to be terminated for a $13 million oversight if downtown can't Implement a plan  for downtown within its smid footprint then by   definition it's not self-sustaining if it has  to reach out to the other neighborhoods around   it and say we need money from you to make this  work they're not making it work within their   neighborhood District whatever you want to  call it so keep downtown out of deleno thank   you thank you Chris do we have any additional  individuals who would like to speak [Music] good morning mayor council my name is Jason  Gregory I own a property at 4:15 East Douglas   I didn't intend to speak because I didn't know  if I was going to be able to be here this morning   so I didn't prepare any comments but um couple  things I wanted to share as someone who has spent   uh a large amount of time working on downtown  let the end user pay for parking at a price   that the market will bear that is how the top 100  cities in the United States deal with parking and   parking management that doesn't mean that in all  cases you're going to pay an exorbitant amount and   I think a lot of the fear that I've heard this  morning and over the discussions in some cases   that payment might be free at certain times of  the day it might be free or it might be very   minimal but the goal of paid parking is for us to  manage the parking assets that we have right now   we're not doing that and when I hear that we  want to use a development tool like C now to   pay for parking that really gives me fear and  gives me pause because a and this is something   that you know we've heard for years and years in  witch we're picking winners and losers that is   what you are doing and adding a sales tax in one  part of our district or downtown and not another   you're you're forcing some people to to succeed  and not succeed the other thing that a CID will   do is it's only going to it's only going to charge  the people who charge sales tax where the rest of   the users don't have to do that whereas if if  we actually have the people the end user paying   for parking that's fair and I think your job as  Leaders is to create a fair and balanced program   second we have to change people's behaviors if we  don't change behaviors we're no better off than we   are today and in Oldtown you know the lot of the  problem is you have hot spots you have places that   are in high demand that's where you should charge  the most and parking garages that people barely or   rarely utilize that's where you should charge the  lease and push people to those areas and maybe it   is free but I think you know thinking about not  managing parking is is a is a real uh oversight   and I think you're actually going to end up in  the same situation it's just going to be packaged   differently and then finally at the end of the day  if we want people to use our parking assets they   have to be clean safe and wellmaintained and  everybody here knows that that takes money it   takes Revenue to do that we all want a downtown  that we can be proud of that we want people to   visit but you know if you do the math and I go  eat at a restaurant with my wife and we spend $100   and I'm paying an extra 2% I just spent $2 that I  shouldn't have I could have paid that in parking   but I a I could have decided where I wanted  to park if I won't don't want to pay anything   I could park in the garage for free if I want to  park right in front of the restaurant I might pay   $5 but I have a choice and that is a well-managed  parking solution gives people options and that's   why I think it's really important that we really  think this through before we start implementing   different strategies throughout the strata of  downtown deleno and Oldtown the best parking   systems are simple the simpler the better and if I  can have an app to pay for it if I can pay in cash   or credit card that's fine I mean that's that's  what keeps it simple signage identification it's   all the same it's all all all the same system  and when I go visit other places that's the   type of that's the type typ of solution that they  have in place and so I know people are scared I'm   scared it's a change but I also know we have  data we have all the information that Heather   shared that is factual and that's what we should  be making decisions on is facts not fear so thanks   for hearing my concerns thank you Jason vice  mayor Ballard thank you mayor um Troy I just   have a question to something that Jason alluded  to to so if I just want to make I already know the   answer to this but I just want to make sure that  everybody understands if we choose to do the CID   option does that include enforcement or does that  only basically carry the financial obligation I   just want to make sure that everybody understands  what that means absolutely so as we contemplated   in the in the models that we've shown you right  yes that included management and enforcement of   time limits um as they exist out there today yes  with the c even with the c and the because again   what what you've heard a lot about today right  there there's two and they're not competing   interest right they're actually very complimentary  interests right there's there's parking management   there's parking management right and when we  talk about paring management it's finding that   balance finding that e uh that Eco balanced  ecosystem trying to achieve industry standard   best practices 80% occupancy in the highest  demand areas you've heard a lot of comments   today about folks of you know hey I've got spaces  out in front of my business and people park there   all day every day my patrons can't clients can't  find a convenient easy locate parking space in   front of my business parking management right you  can't manage parking parking without some sort of   tool such as paid parking or enforcement of time  limits through and unfortunately it's not the best   practice right um but enforcement enforcement  of time limits and then the other is just the   cost recovery to provide all of your operation  maintenance so on and so forth again two interest   not competing actually very complimentary right  but you can't have one without the other and vice versa so with Oldtown not having meters they will  still have enforcement and management that's what   we would recommend yes thank you you Troy we  will continue with public comment I see none   we'll bring it back to the bench for the council  to speak and I believe council member Glascock   wanted to speak thank you mayor I'll hop it speak  over anybody at uh if I try to a little bit later   um when I got elected I said that have all the  answers from this bench but our community does   and I believe that this recommendation staff  takes into consideration input our community   and the concerns our community I believe that  a smid compromise between a I think governance   is about giving and I think it ALS addresses  I prev had my with with car park and council   member sorry I'm going to interrupt you because  we're having trouble with the signal can you   uh speak into the mic and maybe that might  help a little more at all let's see if this   works um I believe that a user fee makes sense I  believe it supports too supported by Oldtown and   it protects the Smith District I think it's not  just a win-win but a win win win win and and so   I'll be supporting staff's recommendation today  thank you council member council member Johnson   thanks mayor um I was reminded of my words by  someone don't let the perfect be the enemy of   the good option A is the best option for city of  wiah it covers every base it doesn't take away   a um development tool um and I think it covers  those costs long term and it ensures that um this   challenge gets addressed and that to me would  be the perfect the good would be the as smid   option which is what I will support today as a  compromise that addresses a lot of what uh we   have heard uh I do think this is going to come up  in a few years as I've told my colleagues as well   but I think the um as smid option is the um way  to go today to get started and begin the the um   parking management plan for downtown Witchita um  My Hope Is that folks don't get confused by it   but um I will be supportive of it um there was I  do have a motion ready but I see other people on   the board so I will let my colleagues um continue  the discussion and then I'll have a motion council   member Johnston thank you mayor uh I will also be  supporting the asmid option it will provide almost   $300,000 more Revenue to maintain our parking  lots and provide security for our parking lots   than option A I think it makes sense it ends up  being a user fee through a sales tax there's no   way I would support a CID for a private business  that's just lining private businesses Pockets so   a CID for the for the theater there's no way I  could support that so I will be supporting the   hmid and I think it gives us more Revenue gives  us a great uh map forward it is a parking plan   will be enforcement and I think it's think it's  a great option thank you council member Tuttle   thank you um i' I've made some of these comments  in the past so sorry to be redundant but for some   of our new visitors with us today um we all know  that something has to be done and councilman per   Johnson still my notes um we're never going to get  to perfect but we can get to great um paid parking   is critical for the health and vibrancy of a  developing downtown like we have and thank you to   Heather for all your work and to your board and it  allows for the Equitable and efficient management   of our limited parking resources um that I think  is really important that we make sure that we're   trying to be equ Equitable and efficient um I  want to thank staff especially Troy you have been   a champion for this you've been flexible you've  listened to people so thank you for all your time   and effort on this um also want to thank the 16  community members who spoke today the others who   came today and everyone who attended Community  meetings or provided comments on social media   send us your emails you you were listened and  heard so thank you for that um I think we all   agree we must Mo modernize our parking system  I've said before from this bench we don't make   water the way we did 30 years ago we don't check  out books or resources from our libraries the way   we did 10 years ago we don't build streets and  Roads the way we did two years ago so having a   plans at 30 years old essentially is not being  um thoughtful and considerate for growth for   our city um unfortunately we can't make everyone  happy but I think today we have to be brave and   do something as I mentioned we've been working  on this for a year and I think we've come to the   best solution that we can this is a compromise  this is moving forward and this is preparing for   progress in our core and I will be supportive  council member hoisel thank you mayor um thank   you Troy in particular um I'm sure you're probably  the most ready to get through this um it's been a   long process going back decades even um so I do  appreciate this and I appreciate the fact that   this is more of a user fee um however I do have  concerns and I've expressed them a few times about   this not doing enough to alleviate some of the  debt that we have and so that's just what makes   it difficult for me to support any of these is  I just don't see the see the the opportunity and   the um plan to alleviate much of that debt that  we have with our current infrastructure so again   I appreciate all my colleagues and all your work  on this um just adding in my two cents thank you   council member Johnson thanks mayor uh before I  go with a motion Troy I have one clarification um   earlier when we asked about the C you said you  needed to know that within the next 30 45 days   yeah probably again and not to dismiss the  agreements with all of the other retailers   as well right because we need to know holistically  whether or not we're going to be able to supplant   and Achieve those benchmarks in our in our parking  management strategies and in our parking fund um   we're going to need to know in short order I  said 30 to 45 days but maybe you could push   that to 60 but we need to have all of that in  place because like I said we're going to go   out we're going to amend the agreement with the  car park we're going to bring that back probably   first part of January and then we need to start  thinking about purchasing this equipment getting   it installed getting it tested and getting it  activated so yeah okay thank you I appreciated   the um vice mayor asking about giv a time frame  just to make sure we were accountable and that we   were moving so um I would make a motion I moved  that to City Council approve option A smid if a   valid C petition is not submitted within 60 days  then meters and pricing will be implemented in   Oldtown additionally by the end of 2028 evaluate  the success of the C support of the parking plan   second motion and a second any further discussion  can I speak to the motion really quick thank you   um I have the pleasure of representing deleno  downtown and Oldtown which has been a huge   blessing obviously but has also made things  difficult um but I believe that putting some   type of parking plan in place um and making sure  that we um add the 60 days to get all the CIP or   C um documents in order um and then doing um  in 2028 making sure that the C is performing   uh the way that um everyone had hoped that it  would so that we don't get ourselves locked   into a 20-year agreement that could potentially  put us in a similar situation that we're in now   um just not working so um I really appreciate um  Troy especially and and the other staff that's   been taking arrows and answering all the questions  and emails um if this was easy I would assume they   would have done it a long time ago but um I think  it is um a good move forward for for our community   um and um with that I'll pass it to the mayor I've  been contemplating uh this decision because um   I'm really grateful that council members have  come to a compromise from the beginning I've   asked more questions because I knew that we as a  community still had many unanswered questions and   so I voted against a or E the last goal around  um but my reason for that has always been that   we need to make sure that we are maintaining what  we have the assets that we already invest in need   to be maintained that we achieve cost recovery  as that is our role in local government and with   this new plan of actually having a management  system that will address mismanagement um I   feel a little bit better I also will continue to  ask questions of staff to make sure that this is   truly a clean and safe plan and that all costs to  the system will be accounted for so that we're not   again undercharging as we have been for the last  25 years so my vote against this is not a vote   against progress it is actually a vote to remind  us that as a council we need to keep asking those   questions because not everyone is able to come  to our Council meetings and we have to keep   looking at the details and asking to look at  those agreements like the 30 that I reviewed   so that again no mismanagement happens moving  forward so I'm grateful that this council is   moving forward with a decision um but my vote  will be against this plan as I still feel like   we have not been completely um upfront with the  community Community uh with all the data that   needs to be shared but I will be pushing for  more data more information to be shared with   our community moving forward with that I have a  motion and a second Madame clerk please open the role I motion passes 5-2 Madame clerk please  call the next item uh we will sorry it is noon   we will take a short 10minute break  and come back to begin new Council business e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e we will now resume oh we'll wait until we'll return when our clerk returns e to our council meeting Madame  clerk can you please one second mayor we do need to wait for a for   council member to con we oh I'm sorry sorry  didn't realize thank you I'm here council member okay the next item is the  public hearing and requests for   letter of intent for industrial  revenue bonds hide Park Flats LLC good morning mayor and council  members do you want to wait for   council member Johnson as this resides  in his district or do you want to go forward we have council member John stun with   a t we're waiting for if we take  the T out we're getting closer t okay okay we'll go ahead and get going uh the  item before you today is a request for a letter   of intent to issue industrial revenue bonds  uh hid Park Flats LLC is a real estate holding   entity that uh was recently developed and has  acquired 213 and 215 South Hydraulic as well as   22 South Greenwood the properties are located  south of Douglas on the west side of hydraulic   Sam Jones and Eric leschuk are managing members  of hiy Park flats and they are here today with us   on this area you can see uh hydraulic roughly a  little bit right of the middle of the aerial and   Douglas is running along the top just outside of  the picture uh the area is outlined in red are 213   and 215 South Hydraulic and 212 South Greenwood  and you can see Hyde Park on the left side of the   aerial there currently there are two dilapidated  commercial buildings and a vacant lot uh they   will demolish the existing structures and they  intend to construct two three-story multif family   buildings these will include 12 Studio units and  24 one-bedroom units as well these are images here   of the two properties the one on the left is 213  South Hydraulic the one on the right is 215 South   Hydraulic the developers are requesting a letter  of intent to issue industrial revenue bonds in   an amount not to exceed $4 million the IRB are  for a sales tax exemption only no tax abatement   is being requested the estimated value of the  sales tax savings is approximately $200,000 the   city is not lending any money in this transaction  no taxpayer dollars are at risk the developer is   required to achieve their own financing on this  project therefore it is staff's recommendation   that the city council close the public hearing  adopt the resolution of intent and authorize   the necessary signatures and again Sam Jones  and Eric leschuk uh as the development team   are here and can answer any questions specific  to the project and I would be happy to answer   any questions as well questions for staff or the  developers I have a couple of questions for the developers hi there I'm Sam Jones I'm with High  Park Flats thanks for having us good afternoon Sam   I had a couple questions about this project um  first and foremost I love seeing that there are   more housing options coming on board here  in Witchita this is something that this   entire council is in favor when it comes to more  housing in Witchita at all levels um so I wanted   to know how much will be rent for these studio  and one-bedroom units as well as how will you   be addressing parking so the units are going  to have uh 32 or 31 parking stalls available   originally 32 but we have to put a Transformer  on there um the rents are going to be between   850 and 950 our goal with this project was  to keep rents below 1,000 which is hard to   find for new build um and it varies between  850 and 950 because our units are between   500 and 700 uh square feet per unit thank you  very much and just one more question this is   a vibrant area um that a lot of folks uh visit  because of a business there can you just tell   us why you decided to make the investment we  really like this area we think it's uh been   underdeveloped uh thus far we think that the path  of development between College Hill and downtown   is uh it it those two areas haven't connected  yet with development um we think that getting   more doors downtown is going to be crucial to  help local businesses in this area we think   it's really walkable we think that people that  want to work downtown are going to be able to   ride their bikes walk um so we really wanted  to get some apartments in this area to help   support downtown businesses thank you very much  for the investment I see no further questions   for staff or the developers we will now open it  up thank you we will now open it up for public comment I see no one from the public I did ask  ask if there were any um individuals opposed or in   support of this plan I asked staff that question  and they told me that there were none for either   uh so we'll bring it back to the bench now this  resides in council member Johnson's District yes   thank you mayor I'm always appreciative to  see more housing opportunities come to our   community and very supportive of this project  so I would move that the city council close the   public hearing adopt the resolution of intent  and authorize the necessary signatures second   motion and a second any further discussion  I see none Madame clerk please open the role I motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call  the next item amendments to Chapters 520 and 903   regarding illegal camping repeal of section 55010  relating to aggressive conduct and am amendments   to section 11 44100 relating to pedestrian  and conduct good morning Sharon dickr City   Law Department I'm here today to discuss potential  amendments to the city's illegal camping ordinance   um since 2013 the city has had an illegal camping  ordinance um the primary enforcement tool that has   been utilized has been the homeless Outreach team  um the goal of the homeless Outreach team in the   police department is to focus on homelessness  and its goal is to connect people experiencing   homelessness with services and housing uh based  on federal case law the current WPD policy um   limits charging individuals for illegal camping to  situations where there's a shelter bed available   and the individual refuses to go or utilize that  shelter um WPD policy currently also requires that   illegal campsites be posted for 72 hours before  they are cleaned up clean up costs over the last   few years um total cleanup costs for the police  department in 2024 so far were approximately   $164,000 that does not include additional WPD  staff time to post and assist contractors with   cleanups recently Parks has taken a more expansive  role in cleanup of these encampments um in 2024   approximately $167,000 has been uh been expended  for homeless encampment cleanups um detail costs   are available on Park and Rec's website since  early 2023 a number of departments have worked   together um to try to develop a more cohesive  plan and process for dealing with illegal camping   um these proposed amendments were discussed with  the city council in a workshop in November um the   grants passed decision recently the Supreme Court  made a decision which clarified what um actions   cities can take to enforce illegal camping and the  opinion held two things one was that penalizing um   this type of conduct or the sentencing uh imposed  in City's ordinance did not violate the eth   amendment right and they also concluded that there  was not a legal requirement that a shelter bed be   available the pro proposed amendments um address a  number of different areas illegal camping camping   and Parks um aggressive conduct and pedestrian  conduct one example of camp cleanups or encampment   or in the photographs um the proposed amendments  make a number of proced Ural changes uh the   definitions are clarified as to what actions are  prohibited the ordinance is re is revised to allow   for clicker quicker cleanups at certain locations  um which pose health and safety concerns those   are namely doorways sidewalks areas near Bridges  walking passes walking paths bus shelters um these   locations may be cleaned up without a waiting  period um or posted notice and these locations   will be given priority from the clean team what  that process would look like for these immediate   cleanup areas is that a complaints received City  staff would then go and verify that there's a   campsite um if there's a person present person  would be provided the appropriate resource lists   and given time to remove the property um what  that time period looks like is going to depend   upon a number of factors um where is it at um  what is the availability of the cleanup team   and what types of things are there um as parks and  PD can testify no two campsites are the same they   all vary um once the person has cleaned up the  property the clean team would then complete the   cleanup um non-s soiled items and identification  anything that would be left would be impounded and   kept for 30 days if the person is not present  in these areas um again we would verify that   there there's a campsite um the park cleanup team  would be notified um they would then go and clean   up the area non-s soiled areas nons soiled items  and identification would be maintained um there   will be a notice placed on these areas um that  would include information on homeless resources   the location of the mac and the location of where  they could um obtain any impounded items that were   taken this is the second area of camp cleanups  that we are calling a lower priority level   less of a health and safety risk um wooded areas  certain areas throughout the community um these   areas would be similar to the process that's done  now they're going to be posted for 48 hours um for   the person to leave if they're present um the  notice would also provide information regarding   homeless Services um if the per person refuses to  leave um and they have been told previously that   they are not allowed to Camp there the individual  could be cited with a violation of the camping   ordinance um the process for these areas um much  the same with the exception of that there will be   a Lo will be a notification posted um giving  the individual 48 hours to clean up the area   information will be provided on homeless resources  and any non-s soiled items or identification will   be impounded for 30 days no person is present this  process is going to look much like it does now   there'll be a post it'll be posted um giving  notice that it will be cleaned up within 48   Hours um information on resources would be  provided um these cleanups would have a lower   priority than those cleanups and uh other higher  health safety locations um this is the type of   information that's currently being provided  to um individuals regarding resources shelter   resources bone Services um other areas where they  can go to get shelter especially during the winter   months the ordinance comparisons um currently all  locations have to be posted for 72 hours before   cleanup the maximum fine is currently $500 we're  recommending that that fine be lowered to $200 um   for certain uh public locations with higher health  and safety um concerns no notice is required   um again other notice other locations would  require notice for 48 hours before cleanup um   the ordinance also outlines a process or procedure  for impounded items um the types of items that   staff would locate and would and would maintain  um identification items items that are in usable   or new condition um those items would be saved for  30 days um items that are soiled mildewed broken   um do not need to be U maintained um the current  proposed uh process is that Public Works would be   responsible for the storage and return of those  um items following that 30-day per or during that   30-day period um the proposed ordinances also  uh clean up areas of illegal camping on private   property um situations have occurred where SW  squatters um will go on property that is otherwise   vacant um camping on private properties prohibited  unless you own it um you can temporarily camp on   private property if you have the permission of  the owner um temporarily camping is 72 hours or   we refer to it as the Mother-in-law in-laws  can camp there for 72 hours you cannot camp   in an accessory structure um meaning a garage  or a shed something that is normally not um   authorized or appropriate for habitation camping  in RVs is also prohibited on private property   um there are a number of exceptions um commercial  property that allows overnight parking uh RVs that   are in a licensed RV park and then there is a  temporary 30-day permit um that can be granted   from mabcd um the ordinance allows a wide range  of agencies or internal uh departments to enforce   the camping city manager is authorized to  designate other individuals or apartments   um again the penalty is lowered from $500 to  $200 um the court can order community service   and currently the community service rate is $10  per hour and I did misspeak when I presented this   at the workshop and said8 it is $10 per hour  um the ordinances regarding illegal camping in   parks are amended um violations for uh camping in  parks would be filed or charged under Title Five   uh the ordinances are also amended to make  it clear that any overnight camping of RVs on   Park property require the approval of the park  director um aggressive conduct in 2017 uh the   city enacted ordinances regarding prohibiting  aggressive conduct from individuals seeking   to obtain an item from another person uh most of  these actions are prohibited by other ordinances   um staff is recommending that the ordinance be  repealed as it is duplic negative um pedestrian   conduct um the ordinances regarding pedestrian  safety are amended um first to address case   law limiting the scope of these ordinances um  individuals are prohibited from approaching a   car in the roadway and uh attempting to hand  off or exchange an item um amendments also   prohibit conduct um which impedes the flow of  traffic standing sitting laying in the roadway   Provisions also are added that parents may be  responsible for children violating the ordinances   since this is a traffic infraction minors over  14 could also be cited with violation of the   ordinance um the Amendments clarify the actions  that are required that there has they have to   enter into the roadway or at an intersection um  to facilitate the transfer of something from the   driver or the occupant um a new section is added  to the ordinance um which does deal with impeding   the flow of traffic um this is to address some  Tick Tock um challenges that are out there uh   encouraging folks to lay down in the roadway  and then give the officer a coupon um penalties   for this ordinance um it's currently a traffic  infraction with a fine not exceeding $500 um the   current fine which is set by the municipal court  for the fine schedule is $91.00 um the amendment   do not change the penalties and do not uh  change that it remains a traffic infraction   um from a timeline standpoint um if the ordinance  is approved today the second reading would occur   on January the 7th um it would be published on  January the 10th and enforcement could start um   as early as January 13th it's recommended that the  Council Place the ordinances on first reading and   authorize any necessary signatures and would  stand for questions representatives from the   police department and parks are also here as  a s questions for staff beginning with council   member Johnson thanks mayor thank you for the  presentation uh two specific questions right now   I had a person um reach out to me at an event  and they told me they have current permission   from a property owner to reside in a vehicle  on that property how would this impact them this would not allow I I need to  think about this so they're in a   car not a RV it's not an RV but it's bigger than a car I don't want to say I don't know whether  kin's here um I would say if it's not a a normal   vehicle that they could reside in I.E running  water that that would not be allowed okay   um and then two I was told by a service  organization and I don't know if you can   answer this that our emergency shelter has  hit capacity twice since it opened that's   going to be a Sally question I just  wanted to confirm if that was true or not actually I'm going to defer to Don  sheppler who's here from humankind is   there's been no data entered into hmis  for us to verify that okay thank you on good afternoon Don sheer humankind sorry I'm not  feeling the best um since we've opened we opened   early um from our proposed date of December 2nd  to November 29th I do have the date or the numbers   from December 5th through the December the 15th  um that show record numbers for us right now the   shelter can hold hold 266 sleeping bodies there  are 128 men in the gymnasium and that's per fire   code capacity there are 72 beds in the women's  shelter per fire code capacity and there are up   to 66 beds in the library per fire code capacity  right now we're seeing the same numbers that we   saw in January of this last season which concerns  me greatly um just because we've hit numbers that   we did not hit last year and knowing that it  was in a different location however we have   never turned anyone away for a bed nor have  we run out of beds at this point there have   been two occasions where the men's shelter side  I'm sorry one occasion where the men's shelter   side did fill up the gymnasium we did not have to  extend over into the flex space which is us being   utilized in the gymnasium area we have filled up  half of the women's shelter area or just hair over   half um a couple of times so far this season um  since we have opened while we have not hit our   maximum capacity of 266 bodies in the facility  it will not be long um until we hit that thank   you for the clarification you're welcome council  member hoisel thank you mayor um yeah I appreciate   the the clarification Don we've heard a number of  things on all sides so the The Men's Shelter we've   have we we've hit the capacity in the gym but  we have not had to go over into the FL space yet   correct okay and so it looks like the flex space  will be mostly men if the women side is halfway   correct we anticipate utilizing the flex space  as uh a men's additional sleep space however you   have to also understand if we have more than 72  women come in and we have more than 200 men come   in there are not going to be enough beds for the  women and the men um we cannot cender um sleeping   spaces and so once we hit those caps no more than  72 women and no more than I don't know uh what 128   plus 66 right now is but um whatever that capacity  is we won't be able to go over um those we do have   the capacity of allowing people to sit in the  day room up to 169 bodies at that point we're   have uh going to have to look at Staffing again  because we now we'll have over 500 individuals in   the facility at any given time or I'm sorry over  the nighttime period Okay so so the usage so far   has been exceeding your expectations as far as how  many people are coming through correct okay thank   you for that I have a few other questions for um  for staff okay am I done you're good okay at least   right now be back vice mayor Ballard I still had a  few more yeah I'm sorry about that we'll continue   with council member who he the long winded one so  be ready for that guys um Sharon um thank you for   your work on this as well um 72 hours um for it to  be considered a temporary camp on private property   is that also the current standard for public  property as well we wouldn't allow any camping   on public property there none for right appreciate  that um if we can we go back to slide 96 okay up here we we talk about the impounded items  um do we have a process or is there a need to put   it into um ordinance to to keep um personal you  know personal data you know birth certificates or   IDs or maybe keepsakes like pictures of family  members or something for longer than the 30   days at at this point the ordinance would require  impounding for 30 days um that that can certainly   be longer um storage does become an issue at some  point um certainly any ID birth certificates any   identification or documentation is going to be  kept for at least 30 days and at some point that   type of information is probably not going to be  distorted it's going to be sent to to property   and evidence those specifics on the processes and  procedures are not completed yet I'm going to look   at Reggie Reggie's over there shaking his head um  he he's work we're still in the process of working   on those um this is a minimum of 30 days  when you start getting into pictures and   keepsakes I may want the picture of me with my  mouth open looking squirely with my brother I   mean I I I I I don't know how you can tell  staff what to keep and what not to keep um   I think historically folks will say if it's  really important to the person they're going   to have it on them they're not going to leave  it somewhere um but but you're getting again   into the subjective nature of what what I think  is important and what you think are important   or could be very different things so we we we want  to be fair with these folks we want to make sure   that we save what we can um but in many cases  most cases the these things are wet mildewed um   can pose safety issues for us to store them long  term um so it's going to be a balancing act for   the folks that are cleaning cleaning these things  up and I'll look see if Reggie has anything to add come up uh we're in the process right now of finalizing  the standard operating procedures of what that   would look like uh we have a draft version now  that's being reviewed by our team uh the other   departments have been involved in the process  will have an opportunity to look at it as well   so once it's completed it's something that will  be shared with everyone so they know what those   processes are moving forward once we start working  on managing that process internally thank you I I   mean I appreciate that I also do have concern like  you know some of these people might be going to   sack some treatment and not be able to get back  and collect any items before the 30 days is up   so um a little bit of concern there also um I know  we get pretty subjective in there but um we got to   parse through that and make sure that that what  we're what we're keeping what we're making sure   that we keep is our again personal personal items  I think maybe if we can figure out a way to pick   and choose what meets the appropriate standards  there Beyond just IDs and birth certificates and   whatnot so um I will continue to keep up on that  process as you guys develop it thank you Reggie   um Daron um is there any reason where going 48  Hours instead of 72 hours on uh notices to to   address the cleanups is it currently 72 hours  it is currently 72 hours um I think that was   a happy medium um and a perceived direction to  staff to to limit those to allow for U quicker   cleanups um certainly it it can be longer than 48  48 is not a magic number um back to your question   on 30 days um the 30 days to keep impounded items  it is in the ordinance um it's a minute I mean it   doesn't say it but we can certainly add a minimum  of 30 days and that's consistent with the city's   ordinance on keeping found or unclaimed property  that the police department so those time periods   are consistent okay thank you for that um what's  the training going to be for any of the people who   are going to be out there to remove campsites or  um um to get the process started I I think we're   going outside of the hot team in order to initiate  some of these I believe that that's correct um   Reggie's hired four four people who will start  um first thing after the first year um they'll   be giving the standard training cleanup training  um any sort of dealing with hazardous materials   type training um I'm looking for Reggie to see  what else that training is going to Encompass you   should just stay up here Reggie uh trauma informed  training is there anything that pertains to that so the training that we'll be doing with  our team is just uh what the uh process is on   how they collect the items and how they  store it and making sure they take photos   of everything that's being identified so  that we can have that for those individuals   when they're ready to recover it and we will  work real closely with the hot team and have   the resource guide that's available that we can  share with those uh uh individuals so that they   can get access to services that are available  so part of that process when we get them on   board after the first of the year they will  go through training on what that looks like   and be familiar with the stuning operating  procedures as well as the new ordinance   that's in place so that we can align with that  okay my my preference is definitely to include   some trauma and for training uh with any people  who might be initiating this or going through   the cleanups as well okay we can definitely  take the consideration all right thank you um um Captain Moses I saw you here sir good afternoon sir thank you  Captain I appreciate you coming up   here um in when we are addressing encampments  now um I see that we currently have jail time   as part of the um enforcement model and  you had indicated we had five cases where   we've actually used um the jail time I I think  that was what was said in shop oh appreciate it um there was one charge in 2020 two charges  in 2022 and one charge I'm sorry two charges in   2023 um the one in 2020 the individual was found  guilty the two in 2022 are unresolved which is   fairly common for these types of offenses um 2023  um one was convicted and one was dismissed okay so   five cases as is there a need for jail time to be  a part of this equation in order to get in there   and clean up problem campsites the the only reason  why it has a well my my opinion as a prosecutor   um is that you want some sort of potential of of  jail time so then you can put them on probation   and you can put them on probation to try to  get them to to enter into those Services you   need drug and alcohol counseling you need um other  assistance um as a motivator if if we've tried the   social service motivation and we're not getting  there is there some other type of motivator and   you can probably speak better to that than I can  um if you want it to be a fine only that's fine   but you're going to have a revolving door I mean  I'm going to pick up offenses and I'm never I'm   never going to come to court because there's  no incentive to come to court um and and and   it is a balancing Factor um I know you've talked  about some other options for the court um a lot   of these cases are going to go to our mental  health court um where we have some the best   judges we've had I think since I've been here that  understand mental health certainly better than I   do um that can help try to hook these people up  with the appropriate um services and try to get   them into a much better place okay but the jail  time is not needed in order to um clean you have   to have jail time to put them on probation to  get them on probation but in order to clean up   the camps we no um okay the one case that we did  successfully prosecute is there any followup as to   uh what happened with that individual um I  do not have any all I'm going to have is the   court data which is just data okay all right  I appreciate that um I would just additionally   I would just say um because someone is cited  does not mean that they were arrested in the   city of witto we utilize notices to appear all  the time which is essentially a citation that   says you violated this misdemeanor in lie of  taking you to jail we're going to provide you   with a court date a date for you to show up at  Municipal Court there's uh few very few mandat   atory arrests on misdemeanors DUI would be one U  domestic violence domestic violence battery would   be another I would anticipate that in these  situations uh the direction from the chief of   police would be that we would air on the side of  a notice to appear for this individual provide   them with a with a resource sheet like what was  provided in the uh presentation and a court date   and again that would be um if someone refused  to comply with an order to to move along or if   someone was a repeat offender of of the violation  thank you for that appreciate it Captain um and then um is community service  applicable for the um fines for panhandling you I mean we indicated $91 is the the  fine that we give is that going to be eligible for   community service as well community service  is always an option for any type of offense   um they have to come to court and ask for that  as an option um and then it's up to the judge's   discretion as to um how many hours they want  to order um if it's $91 you have nine hours   of community service but that that's always an  option and and it's an option um based on our   Title One ordinances that outline the court cost  and fees and and that um community service for   for inability to pay or inability to pay um the  court can always order that would that need to   be codified in the ordinance um I wouldn't think  that you would need to since it's already in Title   One um if you want to make that clear that could  certainly be added thank you um that's all I have   for now thank you mayor vice mayor Ballard that's  it Mike that's all you got okay thanks mayor um I   have a couple questions they're kind of all over  the board um how has enforcement how has it worked   right now I know I feel like we were kind of laxed  a little bit into until the shelter um got [Music] open thank you for the question vice mayor  uh currently as far as the witch toop Police   Department is concerned the majority of the  enforcement is conducted by the homeless Outreach   team in fact almost all of the enforcement is  conducted by the homeless Outreach team there's   a few reasons for that number one the complexity  of the current ordinance uh and the complexity of   the existing case law until we can clean up our  ordinance and policies to match that um but as   you all know you hear from constituents about  complaints about uh encampments uh I know you   all communicate with the homeless Outreach team  and the chief uh expressing those passing those   complaints along when you receive them uh we have  three homeless Outreach team officers currently   uh and and three homeless Outreach team officers  means we have to prioritize how we enforce these   encampments based on complaints um so generally  right now it's complaint driven um the chief of   police the chief's Direction I spoke with him  him about this yesterday yesterday would be   that it continue to be complaint driven that we  are responding to complaints about encampments   uh and and basing our action based on those  specific complaints about an encampment at   a specific location um one of our goals through  the the change in this ordinance is to simplify   the ordinance language so that it's easier for  everyone to understand and can be applied uh   by more officers than just the homeless Outreach  team we understand that comes along with policy   changes and training for all of our people uh  one of the big discussions we're having right now   uh the chief and and other other individuals in  city government is uh if we respond to a 911 call   regarding a complaint of a of an of an encampment  we go out we identify a camp uh what's the next   step if there's someone there how do we make the  effort to connect that person with services and   who are the services that we're connecting  them to uh those are some of the questions   that we're working through to ensure that we are  having a trauma informed approach uh that when   we do encounter someone who is out in the cold  camping sometimes not because they want to be many   times not because they want to be how do we then  connect them with services and ensure that there's   followup uh so all of those things are encompassed  into how the ordinance is enforced I think your   question was more about how it's enforced now and  how it's enforced now is by a limited number of   officers in the homeless Outreach team I mean I  know the hot team has not been to full staff for   a while now do you think a potential solution  to could be to fully staff the my my issue is   I worry about just opening it up to everybody the  hot team works so hard to build relationships and   build rapport with some of the individuals that  we're talking about I just and they have all the   training you know you could possibly dream of  I'm sure I just worry about opening that up to   I don't know lots of different people I guess  on the department or Parks or mbcd or I just   am concerned about opening that up to everybody  when Nate and Ste are trained so well to do that   and they haven't been fully staffed for a while  yeah no I don't think having a fully staffed   homeless Outreach team of four or five people  would be able to keep up with the amount of   complaints that we receive related to encampments  um I do think that we can we can leverage the   experience of the homeless Outreach team and share  that experience with our officers our officers   enforce or city ordinance and state statute every  day the time part of their job is to understand   what the law is what is or is not allowed and what  services are out there and we can help uh provide   that information through policy enhancement by  saying you know a step-by-step process of if you   respond to a an illegal encampment and there is  someone there these are the steps we expect you   to follow uh but no I don't think having a fully  staffed homeless Outreach team of four people   would be able to keep up with the complaints  that we receive um even just to keep up with   the complaints that we received that are passed  along from city council I don't think that a fully   staffed homeless Outreach team of four people  could could manage that for the entire city okay um this question might be for um Sharon would  jail time um offer um the right to have an   attorney yes okay um Reggie this is is probably  a a head nod um have people really reached out   to you asking if they could have your permission  for an RV Sharon mentioned that you could reach   out to the park director to have an RV on public  land right I know I know Troy had had requests   for some for some over over the weekend I was  just curious can I park my RV I mean I don't   think it's a every but but there have been an  occasional one-offs that I'm traveling through   you have a nice park okay awesome aome and I  would say my last um just comment is um I'm a   little bit concerned about taking away the bed  verification to call and make sure that there   is or isn't a bed available before we kind of  shi people around so that's just a comment I   wanted to make council member tle thank you um I  I'm not sure if these will be for Captain Moses   or Sharon so I'll just kind of spit it out there  but there's lots of chatter right there's lots of   um you know worst case scenario discussions  happening I've personally never been involved   with the justice system which is a good thing  and I know a lot of people asking these questions   probably haven't either so I'm just going to ask  some basic questions okay so let's say that this   passes and on January 13th enforcement would  start in in a different way and um there's a a   gentleman um camping correct and he's been there  for a couple days and so he gets issued a site   a from police correct not necessarily okay so say  more um whether and and I think that's maybe a   misunderstanding that's why I'm trying to ask the  questions that I'm hearing that that and this may   be better for Aaron but I'll take my shot you  can correct me can you also showed slide number   88 and 89 that's where the process is I mean  whether whether or not they're actually given   a complaint to go to court is different from we  need to clean this up okay so so the decision as   to whether the person is charged is up to the  discretion of the officer just like whether we   take them in or whether we give them a notice  to appear those are all discretionary acts okay   so I think I think the officer can give them a  notice verbal notice or we're going to give you   a written notice that you can't Camp here you  need to leave and then at that point there's   going to be a conversation with the officer and  the the individual as to what the next step is okay no that's mostly correct uh the the  when we make an arrest by policy you have   to have supervisor approval to do that so okay any  Citation for this offense would require supervisor   approval uh in order to to make that arrest even  if it's issuing a citation technically that's   still an arrest for violation of the ordinance  so 911 call comes in there is a person camping   under a bridge we've identified that in the  ordinance as an immediate removal location   due to safety hazard right Officer responds  to that 911 call identifies yes there is a   camp under the bridge yes there is a person with  that camp that's when the dialogue begins of hey   it's January 13th this ordinance just changed  you may not know that this is now an immediate   removal you cannot Camp here you're going to  have to move along also here's some resources   you know we showed that sheet that was the sheet  from 2023 that we used for the winner of 2023 um   but we would we would certainly work with Sally  her team and providers in the area to identify a   list of providers so we could provide that  information to that individual uh likely   especially on January 13th citations and arrests  would not be made it would be education of this   ordinance has changed did um there is an emergency  winter shelter located uh run by Ministries   located on uh North Main is it main I think it's  1025 North M um and and you can go there if you   need a place to stay um we we Benchmark ourself  against other places in the country and and North   America to be honest with you uh through major  City Chiefs Association we have a partnership   with the Edmonton Police Department in Canada  they've very successfully worked on a large   level to uh increase the enforcement of their  encampment laws that comes along with a strong   foundation in Service delivery uh and that's  where we would lean on our Partnerships and   say okay we're here to deal with this complaint  about an a camp and that is a violation of the   law that's us 100% of the time that's what we do  we go out and we enforce the law uh the part that   has to come along with that is connecting that  person with services to say if you don't want to   be camping outside here are some people who can  help you uh in your situation uh and what we're   working on now is the discussion of who is that  that we connect the person to and what does that   process look like we have a few different options  of what that can look like um but January 13th   this changes no we're not just going to go out  and do I've heard sweeps right that's Not Gon to   happen exctly right that's what I'm hearing too  um I talked to the chief about that yesterday   he said absolutely not that's not the direction  that our Department's going to take uh we are not   going to go out and do proactive sweeps of camps  uh that's not going to happen Okay I'm going to   channel my council member H Heisel for a moment  and ask you a whole bunch more questions if that's   okay absolutely so you know they uh they're and  these are questions that people are asking me so   I just want to make sure that I'm making sure  the public hears it people know that I'm being   responsive to the questions I'm being asked and  knowledge for myself so you said they're giving   a citation is that mean technically a fine uh  no not necessarily it's we're giving them a   court date we would be giving them a court date  saying we believe that you have violated this   city ordinance you need to go to wiah Municipal  Court on this date at this time any fine with   that would be associated with what happens at the  court level the court so what happens if you know   I'm homeless and I maybe some underlying factors  of mental health substance abuse don't have   transportation you know all the things and I don't  go to court I will let Sharon answer that question if you've been given a court date and you failed  to appear the court will issue a warrant for your   arrest um and you would be then subsequently at  some point picked up on that warrant um most of   our warrants are o which means I can sign and  agree to come to court again um so they may   spend a day or two in jail um on that warrant and  then they would be given a court date or seen by   the judge the next morning on the video um I would  guess that many or most of those people would then   be kind of forwarded over to the mental health  court track um to try to help get that person   into services or try to get them the help that  they need to get out of this cycle okay so one of   the things that I'm hearing um consistently is you  know January 13th we're going to do these sweeps   and I'm super glad to have that reinforced that  that's not going to happen the other thing that I   keep hearing is that we're going to overburden the  jail system because now lots and lots of homeless   people are going to be arrested and put in jail  and say so the only so if somebody isn't enforcing   it they're going to get a citation then they have  the opportunity to go to court then if they go to   court then they have a warrant so there's much  more of a process than you are in a camp or   cleaning up your camp and now we're taking you to  jail am I correct yes okay I just want to verify   that because those are the things that I think  there's a lot of you know discussion in the Comm   Community is is being homeless a crime worthy of  going to jail and and there's finding the balance   between um compassion which we want to have for  individuals who are extremely vulnerable but then   also the public safety of the community so that's  kind of where I am um just one last question to   clarify and then I'll stop being councilman Heisel  for a moment um can who can issue the citation   then because there's also been some confusion that  you know can park and wreck give a citation and   clean up a camp does it have to be a commissioned  law enforcement officer who can actually give a   citation the way it's written right now is that  PD Parks um anyone that's listed in that group   could issue a a citation or complaint because  there was some discussion during the parking um   issue a while back um that you know some council  members maybe had anged with people being able   to offer citations that weren't commissioned law  enforcement officers and so people have said well   you know is so I'm assuming there'll be a special  training I mean say more about how that would   happen I understand with PD you do it every day  you're doing it every day already for new folks   who might be able to offer citations what's that  process the only real new group is going to be   Parks thank you that's what I mabcd also issues  citations they're not a certified law enforcement   officer thank you um but they're trained on how  to fill out a complaint what their rights are   do training on search and seizure um so those  types of training um and I don't know that a   decision has been made necessarily for parks to  be a citation driven process yet we just wanted   to make sure that Parks had the authority to  clean those things up which is why they're in   the ordinance um the ordinance allows the  manager to have other folks which means do   we want a contractor to to clean it up um I I am  well aware of the hesitancy of having contractors   issue citations um that's not being um advocated  or included at this point but it could at some   point okay um but no there's there's a process um  from a prosecution standpoint I don't want people   to just start filling out complaints and send  it under the municipal court and that's the it's   not I it's not good for anybody it's not good  for anybody um that's all the questions I have   for now I may have more and I have comments later  so thank you both council member John stun thank   you mayor for Captain Moses good don't sit down  too long um CIT training or Crisis Intervention   training is part of the homeless team Outreach  teams training correct uh they may have attended   CIT training I don't know if it's required to be  a member of the homeless Outreach team but many   of our officers are trained in Crisis Intervention  how how many of your officers are training crisis   uh it was somewhere around 200 I believe but uh  we've used other training methods uh like IAT   integrated communication assessments and tactics  uh recently that the entire agency went through so   uh deescalation training and commun communication  training is is a Cornerstone of what our officers   go through at every level uh additionally we um  I just thought of something as I was speaking oh   science-based interviewing is something that  we use on a department wide scale as well uh   which has to do with cognitive interviewing and um  more gentle conversation techniques so I I I know   people hear CIT and think that's the end all Beall  of Crisis interven Intervention communication and   it's not there's other options out there uh and  we've utilized those other options uh for many   different reasons but most recently our entire  agency went through IAT training which is a uh   deescalation communication training okay okay  thank you question for for Reggie you don't mind Reggie thank you and are any of your Park  Department employees either CIT trained or   Crisis Intervention any any kind of training  that would make them capable of in a nice   way intervening with these homeless population uh  they currently aren't trained now but that's part   what we're going to do as uh as we're  making sure the transition is is working   real close to the wood hot so that we  have a good understanding how we work   with them to make sure that we're taking  that in consideration as we're doing the   cleanup process okay thank you and my last  question is for Dawn run back down here again Don first of all thanks for the work you do  absolutely not easy I know that no it's not um   if my math serves me correctly you've had about  a census of about 160 is the maximum right now   yeah um yes around that we're averaging give or  take a few On Any Given night approximately 100   men and approximately 30 35 women okay so  safely say you've got room for 100 130 up   to 266 but you'll never hit the perfect number  because you'll never have the right mix it's   72 women and then I should have added up before I  came up here but the Overflow of 66 for the men's   shelter because we see tend to see more men um  so the addition of 128 and 66 okay okay thank   you can I also um you were asking Reggie Reggie  over Parks correct so um I'm on the CIT count   um I'm one of the individuals that brought CIT  to the community um CIT training is for law   enforcement officers only we have not expanded  past a first responder so we would probably um   have to have a conversation before Parks can come  through or find a different program um for um the   parks department to go through um something  similar to Crisis Intervention team I just   wanted to clarify that who runs the CIT so that's  a group of us um I've been on it since it started   in 20056 um I know that there are a couple of uh  witw police officers that have been um certified   as uh trainers um we have the sheriff's department  we have Nami we have com care and um this Ed the   um is it what is the mental health or the provide  medical pridor to the jail I can't remember the   name it's uh one of the nurses at the jail  um that behavioral health nurses at the jail   we also have a sension Via Christie the veterans  um department so there's a group of us that make   up the council okay thank you good welcome Don  since you're up there I'll ask you a couple of   questions okay first and foremost um thank you  for opening up the emergency winter shelter um   at the end of November absolutely um I asked  specifically so that people have that number   what is the maximum capacity again bodies that  are able to sleep inside the emergency winter   shelter there are 72 beds for women 128 beds in  the gym for men and then our overflow space which   most likely will be utilized for men which is 66  bodies that's how many people can sleep in the   facility so a total of 266 people correct can  sleep inside the shelter is this an increase   in capacity from last year's emergency winter  shelter correct last year's emergency winter   shelter was 230 um we had capped that at 230 in  the contract that the council had approved for   humankind to operate the shelter this year however  when we were uh were when myself Troy Anderson um   and the contractors were discussing with the  um fire department it was found the number   um of bodies that could be in each sleeping area  and so we're maximizing that space and it's up   to the contractor if we exceed the 230 or not  and so we will exceed up to 266 bodies and you   have room right now for any individual uh men  or woman men or women over the age of 18 do you   currently have beds available correct right  now we do may I also ask last year what was   the highest number the top number did you ever  reach 230 which was the capacity we did not I   believe that our highest number was 191 or 195 um  and that was over the Martin Luther King weekend   um however right now we're seeing the same numbers  that we saw in January one of the coldest months   in the last emergency winter shelter season thank  you Don I'm gonna have a follow-up question now   to um officer sorry Captain Moses um if I  remember correctly this Council uh received   a correspondence uh regarding the weekend where  was the coldest in January and um Chief Sullivan   asked officers to offer uh individuals facing  homelessness a ride to the emergency winter   shelter can you tell us uh approximately how many  people were contacted versus how many actually   took the offer our officers made approximately  300 57 individual contacts so some people could   have been contacted multiple times uh but our  officers made approximately 357 contacts and 50   people uh 5 accepted the offer for transportation  to the emergency winter shelter so large majority   chose not to go into the emergency winter shelter  when um I believe the news media talked about uh   this upcoming weekend it was in January it will  be the coldest um in Witchita is that correct   yes ma'am thank you Captain Moses so we currently  have beds available in the emergency winter   shelter we also um when asked by individuals if  they would like a ride to an emergency winter   shelter uh earlier this year a large majority  chose to say no um so I don't believe it's Humane   or compassionate to see any of our individuals in  our community sleeping on on sidewalks sleeping   underneath bridges that is not compassion and  if our officers are willing to um ask during the   coldest weekend of the year and a large majority  choose not to that means something is wrong that   means the system's not working which is why this  Council invested six to 8 million in renovating   a building including $5 million in operating a  multi-agency center and an additional $600,000   for an emergency winter shelter yet there are  still beds available for people who are facing   homelessness we have to balance both compassion  and a way to encourage individuals to go to the   emergency winter shelter um and this ordinance  change is one of those mechanisms as you've heard   from um multiple staff members this is not as  sweeps of trying to criminalize homelessness this   is to encourage individuals in our community that  are on our streets on sidewalks and underneath   bridges that literally have a bed right now  and it's a 247 shelter so that means you do   not have to leave as of right now Witchita has  a 247 shelter where no one has to leave doesn't   have have to go to a day shelter it's all in one  building and it's because this body made decisions   to make sure that there is a place available  with a bed available for individuals so I just   wanted to correct the record because many people  have asked whether there were beds available and   the answer is yes and the other question was  regarding sweeps and that is not the intention   of this ordinance and this ordinance is already  in place right now there's already an illegal   camping ordinance here in the city of Witchita  this will again the complexity of it will now be   simplified but also be able to have individuals  um know that they have resources because you can   see the process on the screen right now that it  is providing people resources not ticketing them   right away council member Johnson thanks mayor  um I do want to provide some clarity to what I've   heard in regard to sweeps um the concern was not  that approval of this would mean that City staff   is just looking for unhoused people it was that  they would have the ability to do much more than   they do now and if citizen complaints increased  what would happen um right now there's a process   with the hot team um it's not again it's not the  uh we approve this and we're going to go arrest   every homeless person but it is that um some in  our commity community and some who've been here   um before are demanding that certain people not  have the ability to stay where they are and what   happens at that point and because that answer  is unknown there is concerns about that again   not that our city staff would just go out looking  for anyone unhoused mayor I have a quick question   for the manager as well um manager Lane is it  true or not that this Council unanimously has   approved more funds to address our homelessness  crisis than any other Council in the city's history the only wild card would be what  we had with arpa funding through housing   um thank you manager Sally if you can help with that thank you uh council member glad ask  HCK uh when you take into consideration the   funding received by US Treasury for emergency  rent assistance that actually was a homeless   prevention program in which the council allocated  more than $30 million through that program um but   that was a temporary fix it temporarily uh paid  People's rent to keep them from being evicted   and on the streets this investment this is an  investment into uh you know facilities that can   serve for many years to come thank you Sally any  further questions for staff um I believe that this   ordinance also talks about pedestrian conduct so  I'm going to have a couple questions regarding   that um as well um are you able to go back to  the slide uh that says real change not spare change can you talk about the safety  hazards of people walking onto the sidewalk   believe maybe that's a um law enforcement  question but um can you address why this um is an ordinance uh yeah it's it's not safe to walk  in a roadway where you're not intended to be   um we have seen multiple vehicle versus  pedestrian fatality crashes this year uh   not necessarily related to this activity but  we've seen that occur uh and we want people   remain on the sidewalk and in crosswalks  where they're intended to be um Vehicles   cause significant damage to people um and  uh even at even at slower speeds you can   be significantly injured and and alter your life  by being struck by a vehicle and I if I remember   correctly earlier in the presentation um someone  mentioned there's social media challenges um that   encourage I guess people to be on the streets  are you guys seeing that and is also that part   of the reason why this needs to change um I  personally have not heard of that happening   here uh I know obviously uh disrupting traffic  flow is something that uh people do sometimes   to disrupt the norm uh in in protests and in  other uh activities I haven't seen necessarily   Tik Tock challenges here um but I believe  Sharon spoke to that so maybe she has other information that was brought to our office's  attention from the city attorney Association   of Kansas um lerve another uh City attorney  had questions they were seeing that type of   conduct and they didn't feel like that the current  traffic code the standard traffic code that most   municipalities pass had adequate protections for  that um so that was actually some um language that   we added um if it's in MC ferson or Newton it's  probably going to be here um so so that that was   a um recommendation um so that we have additional  tools should those type of conduct make their way   into SED County council member hoisel thank you  mayor um what impact does this have on First   Amendment rights to um petition to protest um  um I'm also thinking of um some of the workers   on strike here recently as well um if you the  subsection b um is is to deal with some of those   kind of issues that that there are some exceptions  um and while I may have a right to protest that   doesn't necessarily mean that I can obstruct all  traffic or interfere with traffic and that's and   that's a fine line um I can't have a parade down  Main Street today just because I want to um so   the the thought is that this is a reasonable  time place and manner restriction on Free   Speech which is allowed um by the case law  dealing with what is a valid protest and   what is valid exercise of free speech okay  thank you Sharon can you go to slide number 94 um so this is the 2023 which  will be updated um before this   ordinance would take effect which then  would include the multi- agency Center   SL emergency shelter is that correct  yes has it already yes it's already   been updated thank you then can you go  back to the slide regarding immediate cleanups I think it's the one  where the multi- agency Center   is also there we go that that one sorry sorry one before it just shows that sidewalks underneath  Bridges and in front of the multi there we   go I I I know which one you're talking  about hold on it's way early not that far sorry yeah this one yes so can you uh maybe  police can um Captain Moses can address this   are there any um with the current ordinance  can you clean up right in front of a sidewalk   right now or right in front of the multi- agency  Center at this current moment with our current coordinance yes but it would have to be posted  I mean you'd have to have the 72-hour posting of   that location so so this just allows for quicker  cleanups in certain high high density High safety   Health um areas so the answer is yes PD could  go and clean that up um but it would have to be   posted and I think we need to make a distinction  between illegal dumping which is also a problem   I'm not camping there I just left my things there  camping and then just being there with my items   and and we're not talking about criminalizing  standing there with my items um we're talking   about camping which the ordinance has language to  specify what a what a rational normal person would   be is camping as opposed to just being there um we  cannot criminalize sleeping I and that's not what   we're we're wanting to do here um we're looking  at camping as a whole and what is the individual   doing at the point in time that the complaint is  made to either the police department or the hot   team or Parks or or however that complaint starts  Sharon um I know that the multi-agency center was   added um I know that this was a concern by vice  mayor ballor uh she went around and spoke with   neighbors uh near the area of the former Park  Elementary School um and one of the promises   made um in front of all of them was that there  would not be uh camps in front of their homes and   so this allows again for that cleanup to happen  quicker but at the same time it's when there's   an interaction with a police officer and the  individual they will be encouraged to go to the   multi- agency Center is that correct yes I mean I  I think the whole goal is to encourage and direct   people to those services and and and currently  the main service is the mac and we want people   to utilize those Services we don't want to scare  them away we don't want to take their things but   there has to be a balance based on the community  that is surrounding the mac and the activities   that are happening on the Mac um and and you know  we we want them to get the services we don't want   them to be sleeping outside council member Johnson  thanks mayor um Sharon I'm going to apologize I   was reading through a piece of the ordinance  when uh council member hoisel brought up First   Amendment rights and I heard you mention protest  so because I didn't hear the context of that did   you mean to say that the piece that would um limit  know the youth groups and people going out and   impeding traffic that would impact a protester's  ability to protest it would not not okay I mean   and and you have to remember that my right to  protest isn't absolute um and maybe you missed   my analogy that I can go have a parade today in  the middle of Main Street I can't right um so   and it it's a balancing act and and um we think  that the ordinance contains enough information   to allow those protected activities um and and  look at what we're really dealing with which is   impeding the flow of traffic by a person's conduct  not my vehicle okay just wanted to clarify I was   reading sorry about that that's okay thank you  again I see no further questions for staff now   can you leave it on the process please thank  you very much we will now open it up for public   comment please state your name your address  and you will have five minutes to address the council hello again Council it's nice to see  you guys I expected to do this in the morning   so I'll have to change a little bit um Donna  Garcia 621 lar me Circle so I had a nice pretty   speech for yall but I am really happy to report  um working with my partners who are experiencing   homelessness currently we've been working on this  proposal which we have given to all of you our   comprehensive suggestions based on the trauma  informed care approach that we've been hearing   a lot about today um talking to people who are  living out on the streets right now I have heard   great things actually about their interactions  with the police station it's really improved   since about 2020 2021 um and they're getting a lot  of dignity they're getting a lot of respect um but   this doesn't NE necessarily negate the trauma that  they are going through and currently experiencing   what this does uh this ordinance as written it  involves a bit of anticipatory trauma and um mayor   woo speaking to your uh having officers offering  rides but no one taking them these are things   that are common to homelessness because of the  traumatic experiences that they've had in the past   both with officers in institutions of all kinds uh  just walking down the street walking by businesses   and in shelters um so it would make sense that  people aren't going to accept rides even in the   coldest of the winter night from a police officer  and it's not necessarily the police officer's   fault it's a systemic issue which is what we're  talking about with the Mac so we have a beautiful   opportunity right now to create a system that  receives people in the kind compassionate ways   that they deserve as human beings um and that's  really what we're talking about and you guys   have done such an excellent job on all of the  Departments of really taking our suggestions and   kind of uh growing them to where they fit in real  world application so just to uh get it out there   some things that we can start looking into instead  of having officers or city people um working on   these removals maybe we can start incorporating a  bit of that peer to-peer uh engagement that we've   been talking about we already have wonderful  systems in place that are already doing this   so it's about building it in and baking it right  into our things if an officer comes up and they   do such great approach like they do that's a  great start we need it at every single level   so then they offer hey here's a backpack it's for  all your most important things what's keeping you   here how can we get you to a bed that's safe and  warm what what's what's has happened um and then   saying hey I can engage this peer Network we  have do you need someone to come and be with   you and support you emotionally someone who may  know you um who provides these services and is   really uh in communication with this uh this  uh population so they can take it they cannot   it can be up to the discretion of the officer  if this person is appropriate or not there's a   lot of nuances but I'm really glad to see that  these are being s in in real real ways and I   think going forward if we're making policies we  need to be doing it in such a way that that it's   nothing about you without you we really need to  be engaging with our boards our advisory boards   that are only homeless people experiencing it  right now they have such good connections they   have such good um potential for healing healing  only comes with hope and we need to continue to   give people The Hope in order to reintegrate  into soet to society it's about saying I see   your pain I validate your pain and I want to walk  with you as you rebuild your own life so going   forward I'm I'm really excited to see where we can  go with this and I hope that we continue uh these   conversations and I want to remain a resource for  each and every one of you you guys have been great   with working with us and and I was so happy to  see that so many of our questions were being   answered not by us but by you guys so thank you  so much for doing the work and the city as well   so um I'd be happy to stand for any questions  that you guys might have for me thank you very   much Donna I do have one question for you um  after hearing all of the questions from this   body and the answers um how much more confident  are you that we are trying a compassionate and an   equitable piece to this very challenging topic  so I'm I'm confident that there are open ears   in our local government what I'm not confident  in is that it will be reciprocated I do have um   some reservation about expectations um as a nurse  and learning to be a nurse practitioner one of my   big jobs is to manage expectations so we're going  to have a treatment plan we're going to put it out   there but people have to come to you they're they  individuals they have a choice some of them don't   have the capacity to do that but we need to be as  the um Authority in this power Dynamic respectful   of that and maintain that voice that choice and  that Mutual engagement that are principles to   trauma informed care so it's just about being  consistent and showing them and letting them   come to us Donna council member johnon thanks  mayor uh I'm going to ask you a question preface   it because I hate making this connection but it's  something that we're doing um so I heard you talk   about um not helping us without us and thinking  of having folks who have been formerly unhoused   maybe being some of the people doing some of  the work I think about what we're doing around   violence interrupts so we worked got a contract  and hired people with lived experiences to go out   and try to help with violence um what it sounds  like I'm hearing from you is that might be also   a good idea with our in House's neighbors to find  people who are willing like the gentleman who came   here before um and other people I know that you've  talked uh at least to me about and try to get them   to do some of the same work to build trust uh in  um the community with our unhoused neighbors and   talk about the resources we have and try to see  what hurdles um we could try to remove for that   is that am I hearing you right on that um yes  and I I'm glad that you kind of brought that   up that's part of our conceptualization when you  go out and you you work with individuals who are   ready they have to be ready that's key um when  they're ready to start rebuilding their lives   we can do this engagement where we put them in the  steering wheel and we create the EnV environments   that allow them to get the dignity and the hope  and build it for yourself the only way that you   break trauma and you get out of the survival mode  where your frontal brain is not even connected   anymore you can't even like read and write really  it's offline so in order to do that we do it in   safe areas where we just little winds time over  time and having individuals do U helping with   the cleanups through Park and wreck having these  uh processes where we're having maybe we consider   your homelessness and your history so maybe we  have lower expectations and we're tailoring entry   into certain areas for you because what's the  point in doing any work if it's never going to   pay off if you're never going to finish a program  and be able to you know go to a college or go to   a tech or you know work in a restaurant if you  have a felony like these are conversations that   we need to have and these are how we Bridge people  from homelessness living on the street back into   to society to transitional housing and eventually  on their own it can be done thank you Donna I'll   ask a question actually to maybe city manager will  there be opportunities for our unhoused neighbors   to be able to help out with cleanups or eventually  just helping out the community council's approved   a program that at least on a short-term basis  will pay residents of the Mac uh to help with   um clean up at the mac and perform other duties  help with laund um and even possibly if I remember   right intake responsibility so we're going to set  that direction and uh how it goes forward I think   will depend on how successful we are and if I  may expand on that as well it's Meeting those   people where they are that's a that's a perfect  idea that's exactly what needs to happen and you   need to do it in a way that you have some people  who can do it and some people who can't and we've   got Pathways for each but um building slowly and  getting that uh survival survival brain quieted   and then working on emotional intelligence and  all of the other things that come with it so we   have to do it but again managing expectations  we have to do it gently and consistently with   the input of our homeless Partners thank  you Donna we'll continue with public comment hello I I'm uh Greg Alexander I live  at 12501 West juel Circle I own a second chance   Services which employs homeless people we've been  around for about six months I've been working with   the homeless for about four years I think a lot  of it what I'm going to bring here is a little bit   actually of the personal side of it this is Allan  Allan has been homeless for uh three years in the   first three months I knew him he was at 13th to  mle he was served a green notice so he went to   Central then he was served again so he went across  the bridge the walking bridge he was there for   another month he was served again and then he went  now he is in the homeless Center or the homeless   area near Botanica where there's like 30 or 40  people there um and then this is Robert Robert   lives about a block North of North High School  and so he's just there it's just him and one other   person they're down next to the river and you  can see this a very clean Camp I mean it is super   clean and so somebody on the the path decided that  they didn't want the homeless people there so they   turned them in so basically he was turned in and  then the person 100 feet up from them was turned   in and then it just goes right up all the way up  to 18th Street so they basically played Musical   Camp so he went to the next one and then they went  to the next one and then they went to the next one   and then they started a brand new camp and this  is just like a repeating pattern every single time   that I work with homeless people there's an an  encampment behind the ice arena and that one   they were just served and they have no idea where  they're going it's this process that happens over   and over again all the time we have to really  look to other parts of the country to look at   other ideas I mean there's ones like this is  Denver Colorado they did tiny homes for some   people there I mean these are super simple there  is no running water it's electric and heat and   that's all it is and then there was one Eugene  Oregon and these are kind of cool because they   have Builders like from the community they come in  and build it and they kind of make it unique the   people are involved they get to decorate their own  stuff so I mean I love the whole idea of the Mac I   think it's an incredible facility but we all know  that when they go up to the Mac they'll get into   the system but they won't get housed I know people  that have been in this on the list for three years   and they don't have a choice and there's no way  and then on top of that it's like where are you   on the list well I have no idea I don't have a  cell phone it's like well how are you supposed   to contact these people and we're constantly  moving them over and over and over again but   we have no idea where they go other than maybe you  could walk 50 feet down the river and maybe you'd   find them but it's just overall there's there  has to be a better way to do it and deciding   on a couple other notes that have come up when  I've been sitting here why people don't go to   the shelter the biggest rumor i t talked that  I talk to I don't know if it's true or not most   of them don't want to lose their stuff you leave  your Camp unattended there's a darn good chance   when you come back it's going to be pillaged all  the stuff anything worth of value will be gone and   there's no question about it and as far as people  with paperwork they keep their paperwork on them   all the time because they fear that as soon as  they leave and they leave their paperwork there   there it's gone I mean people come in I've known  people that had reading glasses stolen I mean   it's like what are they doing with these stuff  it's just over and over again but they have no   other option it just happens all the time it's  like here's another green notice let's go find   another spot I had one guy that he worked at  Goodwill and he was under the syndica bridge   he got served so it's like two options okay do  I go to work at Goodwill or do I move that was   his choice he decided to go to work and not get  fired I mean that's how of a choice that he had   to do and those are kind of my comments thank  you thank you Craig we'll continue with public comment yeah uh my name is uh Adam Greenleaf  I'm currently homeless I've been homeless for   I actually been homeless for a while and uh  I don't agree with the audience that you guys   trying to pass I think it's just going to keep  the revolving door open it's going to keep that   Cycle open it's going to keep the the anger  it's going to feel it even more and I'll tell   you why because since I I I was incarcerated I  did almost 29 years all together you know what   I'm saying and uh being homeless is Tau me a lot  of it allowed me to see a lot of different stuff   different all the things we're doing wrong uh  I don't agree with this audience because you're   just gonna keep it going it's just another way  it's like when I go to a hospital and and the   doctors asked me a question I tell them no they  don't like my answers so I ask the same question   but they'll put different words to it you already  had one audience that's that Outlaw camping it   didn't work out that's why we got a second one  it's like it's put together in the same way it's   just written differently and so like to me the  solution that you really that you really want is   a community effort but locking people up it's only  going to keep it going cuz like the dude just said   we just moved to one spot to another and then  we leave different states like that is not the   answer locking people up is not the answer it's  never worked out it creates more animosity than   us and then you got to remember some you got cats  their mind is gone try living out here for two or   three years I lived out here for five in different  states I like the idea of looking at other states   for solutions to come watch got uh 10 cities the  being out here stuck seeing the things that we got   to see things you guys don't get to see dealing  with the corruption that keeps us out them doors   50 people only responded to the officers over 300  people asking there's a reason for that jail is   not Jal is one of the biggest reason why we say  no the mistrust there's a lack of accountability   we're hold accountable and when we speak out we  don't have a voice it's easier to say cuz other   people's got more to lose than what we got and try  imagine watching your friend take his last breath   about the car hits the accidents I knew quite a  few people that was moment think I ran over and   died I buried a couple of them you see like we're  so busy using the same text we're too scared to   come up with something different we're afraid  to cost what is more important money or people   I think it's people that make the city great not  the buildings not the programs but when we lost   when we lose a sense of communication because  it's because we're all frustrated and we're   all combating against each other two people with  closed fist can never come together at a table and   feed with two busy fighting each other how can we  pick up a fork and we if we and if we only listen   to one side of the aspect of the story how do we  get the other side where's the answer you got to   create answers for people that ain't able to  meet the needs viness is complaint about us   I get it I'd be mad too if it's taking away food  from my table business is help it's our economy   is so low and so weak and we w't be dishonest  about it I understand the importance of business   importance of education and I'm a GED graduate  you know what I'm saying but I got to see a   lot of things and the biggest thing that we've  messed up at is that we like to hide from each   other past the blame as well as force people  in the situation they don't want to be in yet   the way I got clean and sober was not through  rehab with none of that I had to [ __ ] I had   to fail a bunch of times to realize that hey  I don't want this no more you know what I'm   saying when you put somebody throwing them  in because you think they're going to want   to get clean you know how times I've been in  rehab how times I matter of fact I got clean   and over because I didn't not even without rehab  I made a personal choice I put the work in when   we started forcing people we're taking away the  Liberty ain't that what this country was built   off of Liberty and now we want to now we want to  penalize people that don't have no choice but to   be out here lock them up they get back out they  go to another spot repeating cycle how we winning   this audience it might be good for you guys but  it's really not it's going to backfire because   we're just only repeating the same thing we're  not coming up with no Solutions the solutions is   community effort open these doors look elsewhere  but locking people up and finding them we're not   going to be able to pay that fine we're just GNA  keep getting locked up that's the problem that I   see there's got to be something different that  where everybody could be happy you know what   I'm saying you got to give us we got to come  together as a community and work together as   a community everybody's got to get their story  out there not just the homeless open the doors   at the Mac let the community come in voice the  agreements do something different besides locking   people up thank you [Applause] Vice thank you  Adam vice mayor Bard yeah I have a question um no that's okay do you have any suggestions um from  your own lived experience that you think would be   beneficial uh yeah accountability I remember one  time I sat with the uh chief of police in Perry   Oklahoma he asked me like and I was in his jail  actually as an inmate and uh the accountability   you see there's only 50 people that responded to  these officers there's a big mistrust and like   and that's what it is you want to get people to  come into these shelters you want to get people   to give you ideas there's got to be a trust  when we're forc like let me ask you a question   if I force you to do something but against your  own will even though it's not detrimental to us   how would you feel would you like to come back to  me for my services if I tell you you got to dump   your water out and I bought and you bought this  water it's like when you're forced to do something   it's not by our own will it's not by our own  choice we're doing it because we're trying to   survive so when you keep us in that same mentality  and then we got to deal with people that are that   are corrupt it's like we lost we say we want to  help the resources they've been hardened just   like we have been just like almost everybody  in this city has been so do you think to help   rebuild trust like there could be somebody such  as yourself that has like for like peer support or   I'm just looking for something that is maybe  different that would work so this is what keeps   us out of the doors of these shelters is when we  can see those that's supposed to help us hurt us   even more the accountability I stayed out of  the church I stayed out of these church for   a long time because my and I hate to say that I  really do because I would like people to trust our   resources you know what I'm saying but the fact is  we don't there's things you guys don't get to see   and the best and the things that you guys don't  get that that you guys don't get to see that's   not on your piece on your desk as reports but you  hear about it I once told my son he said why don't   you like cops I said it's not that I don't dislike  them I don't trust them I don't know which is good   and which is bad but and then I told the chief  the same thing when I see a good cop cover a bad   cop's cover bad cop's position of what he've done  who you really trying to serve yeah so when you   hurt the community like that this is what happens  council member tutle thank you and and thank you   Adam for being here today I really appreciate your  bravery um and it it's appreciated that you came   back um Sharon can I ask you a quick question  regarding this because I just I want to make   sure I understand and I'm accurate and I want to  make sure the community understands the speaker   mentioned several times that with this ordinance  revision because we already have an ordinance   right pardon me that we'll be locking people up  please speak to that will more people be arrested   because of this is it changing it's changing the  time frame of how long they can you know from   notification to clean up a camp but I I just want  to get some more clarity on that we have we've had   this ordinance since 2013 in the last three years  there's only been five citations issued you're not   going to go to jail unless there's some sort  of a citation and a conviction so so we have   lots of steps here before anybody would ever go to  jail um currently we have the the hot team which   is going to be the agency that would be issuing  those citations so kind of like what Aaron said   Captain Moses said January 13th we're not going to  go out we're going to arrest 500 homeless people   um City pays for that jail time for number one so  that's not in our interest to put these people in   jail um our goal is to get them into services  so we've always had illegal camping we're we're   changing the requirement that there be a beted  available and we're making some areas subject to   immediate cleanup those are really the only two  changes so so you know the only big change from   an enforcement or citation standpoint is going  to be is there a bed is there not a bed and and   currently I mean and and the information that's  been presented is that in most cases there is a   bed there are very few instances where there's  not a bed um I know that beds for women are   harder than beds for men generally speaking so  so um the hot team has you know shared stories   of beds for guys there's no bed for girls what  do we do um even though that's not going to be   a policy requirement and I can't speak for the  chief baby eron can I can't imagine that that's   a goal is to go out and put these people in  jail whether there's a bed available or not   so I oftentimes ask staff to um explain things  like they would if they were speaking to their   neighbor at the mailbox at the end of the day you  know so you said there's two main changes yes from   the current ordinance to this could you just  emphasize them one more time yeah it it was a   policy change from the police department that  prior to this Grant Pass case the law was you   can't give somebody a citation for illegal  camping if there is not a bed available okay   that got taken away with that decision that that's  no longer a legal requirement it it can it can be   a requirement but it's just not something that  a municipality has to do that's one change the   other change is that for years it was 72 2 hours  to clean up now there are a bifurcated system some   areas are 48 other areas are immediate but you're  still going to get some notice I mean we don't   have the staff to go and do immedi qu immediate  cleanups I mean we're going to prioritize these   cleanups um so people are going to be allowed time  to get their things together I mean it's just it's   not going to be the the park Department doesn't  have the staff to follow around the hot team or   follow around other enforcement agencies and clean  these things up that's not our goal I just don't   want there to be you know I don't know what will  happen and whatever Direction we'll go but no   matter what I don't want the sound bite to become  anything about the city of which I was planning to   arrest more homeless people because I don't think  that's what anybody wants and that's certainly   not um a kind and caring community that I believe  we are so thank you for the clarification that's   certainly not the goal of internal staff and and I  think the one thing I would like to say is this is   just one piece um we have a whole a lot of pieces  going on here this is not going to solve camping   this is not going to solve homelessness it's a  piece um and I think staff thinks it's a step   towards the right direction what that direction  is at the end of the day you all are the policy makers thank you Sharon we'll continue with public comment good morning uh pip Thomas District 21543  East agot Lane uh 67226 so uh I was here last   week I mentioned that I work with the sunflower  Community Support Network we provide food water   and sanitation to impoverished witchar residents  including the homeless I also mentioned that I   started a petition uh against uh this proposed  ordinance right now it has 250 signatures and   before I get too far I'd like some clarification  from uh some of the nice people over here if you   could is it possible that today the council could  amend this ordinance to not include any fines   whatsoever is that something they could do or  would it have to go back to someone else they can   do it all right so I I have yet to hear any person  say why the fines are beneficial um $200 if you   don't have enough money to like eat drink or sleep  I don't think that's really gonna help anybody you   know um uh additionally uh I appreciate all of  the clarification that came earlier um I think   there was a obviously there's a lot of confusion  going on about this because people are panicking   right people as was mentioned people thought there  were going to be some kind of sweeps but you know   I I myself recently found out that's kind of a  slang term uh I I suppose what people actually   mean you know what Brandon Johnson was nice  enough to clarify earlier is that people are   talking about the cleanups um given that  they according to the way the math works   out right so the point in time count found that  691 people were homeless in witcha last January   the new point in time count is supposed to be  conducted this upcoming January and so with the   way the math works out there's still 152 people  left unsheltered um and I haven't really heard   any ways I I understand that there's that we're  not at full capacity with the Mac yet but I have   yet to hear a solid reason a data driven reason as  to how we're going to make that happen um no one   has provided any evidence whatsoever that these  cleanups are going to positively impact the amount   of people sleeping in the mac and I guarantee you  there are enough cities in this country that we   can find that information somewhere you know uh  recently I sent every single council member um   some peer-reviewed research that I had found um  talking about some of the is issues some of the   issues around homelessness how people react to  different things how cities Implement different   policies uh you know it had been looking like for  some other policies we were looking to Honolulu   and so I found something from Honolulu and I sent  it um and all of that evidence points to cleanups   don't provide any significant benefit to actually  reducing homelessness so I if I'm wrong prove me   wrong please but where's the data we had a  fantastic presentation last week about road   maintenance that is one of the best presentations  I have ever seen at a city council meeting by the   way I'm an engineer because I like I like that  boring stuff that was fantastic give me more   numbers please um and so I only have like a minute  30 left and so I want to rec commend that what the   city council does today at the very least if you  are absolutely determined to pass this eliminate   the fines from the ordinance they serve absolutely  no one and no one has given a reason as to why   they should be there yet additionally um I believe  moving forward what we should do if we really want   to go about these cleanups we should have the hot  team working closely of several people have said   working closely with these encampments and instead  of Shifting them from one place to another right   and causing them to not trust the city council  which we're trying to build trust right now right   in the whole Community instead of making it so  that they can't trust us instead work with them   to get rid of Bad actors right and to make sure  that those situations are safe and clutter-free   and that way it's easier to manage instead of  having to work with 50 encampments around the   city all of which don't trust us and won't work  with us and I guarant guantee you utilizing that   we'll get more people in the Mac so we're  not just wasting 8 million on an elementary school thank you and I stand for questions thank you we'll continue with public comment good afternoon I almost said good morning  but I made a mental note to that we've been here   for that long um so my name is Olivia Hayes I'm  with the local chapter of the libertarian party   I'm also on wsu's homeless task force I've  been working on this issue for a long time   which I'll share more about in a minute but for  me the the thing that's glaring to me right now   with with the way we're going about this  and wiah specifically is the inconsistency   of saying that we support the homeless and then  passing policy that directly contributes to it   a tent is a home it might not be the home that I  prefer or you prefer but it's still someone's home   and no matter how you slice it this policy I'm  not just talking about the change I'm actually   talking about the existing policy because I don't  like either one no matter how you slice it this   policy is taking someone's home and is creating  more homeless in Witchita uh you call them camps   you call them complaints you've got all kinds  of like really good you know cover words for   them but at the end of the day these are not  camps these are not complaints these are human   with limited resources that you are punishing we  I don't mean I don't mean you personally you know   that um so all I'm asking for is for you to be  consistent listen to your service providers that   are in the room and I know that there are better  policies that we can support um like I said not   just the change this policy in either form there's  a more creative solution here and I bet you it's   sitting in the room furthermore okay I want to  caution us I've said it before but I want to say   it again I want to caution us against the Mac so  my background I grew up in a town called new Bron   Texas which sits right between San Antonio and  Austin Awesome Town um I worked with a countywide   homeless group in Austin it was actually a  bunch of real estate developers that were   coming together to see what they can do to help  the homeless issue in Austin they actually did   do tiny homes so shout out to the guy that um had  that picture they did it kind of like a halfway   house it was a temporary place that you could go  while you figured out economically how you could   get into a real home anyway all that to say when  I was part of the Austin task force we of course   toured the facility that's inspired the Mac in San  Antonio this was maybe seven eight years ago what   that had turned into it was presented just like  you guys are presenting like it was going to be   a great resource and a great help and I think it  was for a while by the time I toured it it was   glorified Office Buildings office spaces that a  lot of them were empty a lot of the services that   we tried to provide wraparound to get together in  this building many of them had different issues   with accessibility was a big one they had reasons  why they left the facility so by the time I tored   it it was halfway empty right um so I'm not saying  that's for sure going to happen here I just really   want to caution us against it um and and being  creative and making sure it doesn't this is just   a reason why we can't continue putting all of  our eggs in the Mac basket and it's another   reason why we have to be more creative as far as  not supporting the change to this policy looking   at the existing policy and just seeing if we  can do better and be more consistent thank you thank you Olivia we'll continue with public comment good afternoon Council mayor woo my name  is Matt Voss um with murphin Inc uh we're located   at 250 northwater uh we've been headquartered  in downtown witto for over 80 years uh previous   to northwater we were at 150 North Main Street  it has remained and we've remained committed to   locating in the core of the city and advocating  for its long-term success lately that commitment   is wavering as our employees have experienced  unpleasant interactions with the unhoused on   our property and within our building we'd had  we've had to install uh additional Access Control   in order to secure our building and in order  to make our employees feel safer it's made it   inconvenient for guests clients Partners to visit  our our building we have camping taking place   in and around our building and uh at many of our  investment properties downtown murin has invested   in several buildings in downtown and will continue  to some of these Investments are Redevelopment   projects and of which we're experiencing break-ins  almost daily when we then have to pay third party   to board up and secure the building only just to  have to do it again the next day we called in to   the police department the video and were told that  there was nothing that they could do we sometimes   know that someone is in the building and we've  had instances where the police wouldn't go inside   this is not to throw anyone under the bus but just  sharing our experience we've had to incur expenses   to demo structures just to resolve the situation  and we have several Investments downtown slated   for redevelopment but those projects have been  put on hold due to the camping interactions uh   unwanted interactions uh from the unhoused and  break-ins we would like to see the city consider   those paying the property taxes uh priority  in protecting our investments downtown thank you thank you Matt we will continue with public  comment hello my name is Eric Gaston um this is   it's kind of crazy you know I've been homeless for  like a year now and I've kind of sat back and seen   everything that's gone on and and the way things  are approached is is like completely backwards   you know I see you know you don't have any trust  with people wanting to go to the homeless shelter   because when you go to the homeless shelter you're  told it's one way last night was the first night   I went to the homeless shelter to see what it was  like I went in there I was able to walk in there   with knives on me and then you know basically put  into a bed I wake up the next morning and all my   stuff that just even in my pockets are all around  me on my bed and there there is no trust between   the the city and the homeless and and there's  actually more trust between the homeless and the   homeless than there is with anybody else wanted  to come out and and help anybody or or do anything   it's easier in the city to get drugs than it is  to get food than it is to get a driver's license   than it is to get any kind of um real support for  what's needed to be done it's um easier for um for   gang members to um harass people than it is for  you to get help with the city to do something to   make this city uh a better place I lived here my  whole life and then left for for like 10 years   and I got to be in a community where the people  actually took care of each other and um I come   back here and it's it's almost like a it's almost  like 10 times worse than what it was 10 years ago   when I left now all the homeless people all they  see is all these empty buildings everywhere and   why are we forced to be out on the street or  when you do go and and there's no resources at   these homeless shows there's for people to get  a job to get back into the community to be able   to keep your stuff or here you can stay here but  you know carry your backpack and your bags of of   clothes around with you all day long who's going  to look for a job or even hire someone you know I   don't even feel comfortable my hair is not done  I got no place to take a shower in the morning   whatever I've gotten you know I've been able  to how do you want to say Survive by you know   getting a membership at the gym or or doing you  know things that most individuals probably won't   even try to do but you know I might approach  things in a different way I think is as other   people were saying you know like finding people  what are you going to what are you going to get   out of someone that has nothing you're just making  them feel less of a less of a human than what they   are you go into these shelters I mean they're  trash like I went there this morning you know   you know the the girls restroom you know people  they they couldn't even use the restroom this   morning because the restrooms were clogged up the  the the toilets are destroyed you know I don't   know if it's the people destroying it I don't know  if it's the the mental you know I've tried to sit   back and see exactly what's going on and a lot of  it just seems like a lot of manipulation I don't   know where it's coming from but it there is a lot  of manipulation that people are they don't have no   trust for the city or or anything like that like  $8 million for a building that you shove everybody   into one room you know I haven't last night was  the first night I've been there so I don't know   the whole story with everything but I think that  uh if you have an entire School building why is   there no sense of privacy or it's called humankind  but when you go to a humankind you don't feel like   a human you feel like another caged animal when  you cage an animal you're going to get animal   behavior other than that that's that's that's you  know me personally I'd like to ask for a job to   like be able to talk with people that are have  a better understanding of exactly what's going   on because I do see like um you know with the tiny  home like I don't know what to do because I'm just   an individual I don't even know who to talk with  to work with to figure out a situation on solving   the like this city could be a one wonderful City  I grew up here I love it here but with the stuff   that's going on I just want to leave you know  go somewhere else but something keeps telling   me that I need to stay here so with that that's  what I'm saying I would like to ask for a job and   any aspect of being able to help to where other  individuals can have help too to where it's not a   butting heads constantly thank you Eric  council member Tuttle thank you thank you   for being here I I truly appreciate it I do have  a question for Sharon if that's okay thank you [Applause] Eric I I appreciate The Bravery of the  speaker for being here and whenever I'm hearing   themes I'm I'm trying to to pick up on them and  you know we as I asked a lot questions about   going to jail the other thing that I've heard from  two of the speakers um is why are we giving fines   which I think is a very legitimate question and  I've had people in the community again say why   are you finding people who don't have any money  they're not going to pay it I'm assuming a lot   of smart people sat around the table to to try  and look at this ordinance I'm assuming there's   a rationale can you help explain what that is the  the fines are actually being reduced on what we're   providing from 500 to 200 um and that's a fine  up to $200 um the court in its discretion I mean   again and you have to be convicted to have to be  ordered to pay the fine um and fines are are a   deterrent um most criminal ordinances have fines  to act as a deterrent um and again the amount of   the fine it it can be $50 you can have no fine  um you you need to I think balance the what is   the goal the goal is to get them to homelessness  at some point there are people who are not going   to voluntarily go there so then what other tools  do we have um that the judge is going to look at   the ability to pay is always the first thing that  a judge is going to look at judge is not going to   order someone who's homeless to pay a $200 fine  um they may order some community service and some   incentive I mean a fine is a deterrent or a fine  can be an incentive um the amount you know it it's   up to the council as a policy it can be reduced  it can be raised um but those are up to a certain   amount which gives the court discretion as to if  a fine is ordered and what that fine is and what's   appropriate giving the facts and circumstances  of that particular individual in front of them   okay thank you very much council member hoisel  thank you mayor um and thank you for speaking   Eric um to us um just a little bit of background  about the Mac we are working on a housing piece as   well we understand that there's a need for people  to have their own space to be stabilized to heal   before they can really start working on the the  issues that are leading to homelessness so that's   in the plan that's coming a little further down  we did this right now with the emergency shelter   just to make sure there's a space for people  to go to during the winter um and then upcoming   months and years we will be adding office space  there for Supportive Services as well so I just   wanted to give you a little more background um  what you see currently is not the final product   as as to the max so we're going to continue with  housing pieces and Supportive Services as well   thank you Eric again thank you for speaking  I know that several providers are here in the   room um some had to leave but if there's anyone  in this room that um Works in Workforce um I   would really encourage you to connect with  Mr Eric who's who said he wants a job and   he's willing to uh work and I know that um I've  heard from community members who want to offer   job opportunities for individuals um who just  want that opportunity and I'm actually texting   people who've said they're willing to provide  jobs so if you're willing to um stay around and   if there's a job I will connect with you with that  with an opportunity we will continue with public comment first of all I have a hard time speaking  in public so um my name is Sarah and I'm homeless   I've been homeless this time for the last three  years off and on um I was in work relase for   6 months at that time for child support on my  grown son that I had raised and I didn't have   the attorney when he was younger so when I came  out the temporary housing I had was while I was   in work release and i' came out and went into  sober living but um I have a lot to say and a   little time to do it um first of all as far as  when it comes to um this ordinance I know that   it already it's already in place sorry I'm a  little short um it's already in place and it's   really I mean there's nothing the whole time  on it I mean all we can really do is whatever   passes with this what I'm asking is like for  future these people when these are their homes   and the 48 the 72 hours to the 48 hours I mean  it's it seems like it's not that much time or it   is a lot of time but it doesn't for when we're  out here most of us don't even have concept of   time you know and there is I'm I have two sons  that are out here I um I lived in a house and we   had a lot of people that had been there coming  in and out because when it was cold and most of   these houses that they they say their drug houses  they you know and these are just when they're not   outside where do they have to go they don't have  any other places to go I mean most of the people   that are out there have lost their homes they're  not people that just don't want to be part of   society these are people that had had jobs they  had had lives either something happened they had   traumas in their lives or something happened that  they ended up out in this situation in the first   place and um at my house we had a lot of people  staying there and my friend had a double homicide   there um three years ago and the two of my  friends and on the news they put it out that   this was this drug house and but my friend had  stayed there because her two boys could be there   on the weekends it was because there was that many  people these people had gotten jobs together and   when these people start coming into these when  they are pushed out of the houses because the   neighbors think that there's other things going on  in there then they're pushed out into these camps   and then they're being being pushed out again  and again and again and these people the things   that they have on the sidewalks sometimes like  that's the only place that they feel safe because   they can't go the amount of people that are out  there like they have how many women beds do they have I went and tried to get as many people's  testimonies this week just to bring up to put a   face I probably talked to at least 180 women this  just this weekend and that's only covering the   area from probably mcor um Lincoln and Broadway  to hydraulic and wasel and that's just that's one   area that's not even including the camps that like  the major camp that they have down there there's   maybe two or two maybe 300 people they have in  that area dispersed so even if we had wanted to go   to those homeless shelters the odds that we might  get a bed making that way because we're most of us   don't have cars 99% of us don't have any vehicles  and to get down to where most of these shelters   are which is not in that area of town I mean we  have the Lord's Diner there and half of us can't   even make it down there because especially when  it's cold um I had like we have enough people that   like we are the only District in the city council  that we don't have a representative we have all   the people the representatives that they they each  district has what the neighbors say about what   they think about the homeless camps but we don't  have the homeless represent themselves you know um   they like the jobs I've went I I used to work  at Grace Baptist Church when um Pastor Michael   and then he passed away and that's kind of when  we lost everything and when we first started we   had lost everything and we had went into our  addiction and we our children were in foster   care and we started off in a tent in the backyard  of that church and that church welcomed us and we   got jobs with that church and that I think that  is a major major thing on making things go better   for the future is not only not taking down these  camps but having these people giving them jobs   because most of us don't have IDs 95% of us don't  have IDs and if we don't have a mainling address   we can't get any ID you know it's necessary for us  to have an ID but there's no way for we can get it   you know there we don't have jobs we don't have  phones if you go down there and you ask anybody   anybody out there if they want to work they will  come to work with you you know they don't have   IDs to cash checks but if you pay them under  the table they don't want drugs they don't want   anything money in their pocket is what they want  if they were part of like I thought I have tons   and tons of ideas because I have kids down there  and I don't want to be down there forever and I   don't want everybody else to be down there either  and I don't want to leave till they're gone so you   know like put them have them help you know that's  more jobs with them I say amount of time I'm sorry   thank you Sarah council member hoisel um thank  you mayor um two things uh first Bob can we get a   quick update on the um ID program I believe we've  bought the um equipment for it um specifically I   I believe we're waiting on the Attorney General  to give us a ruling and then also are these IDs   still does it look like they're going to be I9  eligible uh we actually have I think gone past   that issue of a uh attorney general's opinion  and we're moving forward with h the um system   to be able to produce the IDS I believe we're  focusing focusing on the Mac as the distri the   initial distribution spot and I do believe  that they will be eligible right yes they   will be and can I ask a question on that yes  what will be the things the requirements to get those what would be the requirement on the IDS  that you do have because well a lot of the hold   of the the problems that we have is we don't  have the paperwork like I had when I was in Work   Release I got my ID because I went to the Mobile  DMV at Salvation Army because I was able to use my   uh basically they had the third party verification  because I was in the the facility and I also had   an address for them to mail it but being out  there like I checked into PO Boxes and with   PO boxes we're not allowed we can't you not  only need an ID to get a PO box but you also   need a second form to get something for an ID so  even and if you go like General deliver delivery   you need an ID to pick up your mail in that  so like that's where we're just that's one   of the big we thought about putting a mailbox  in the middle of the park you know we don't   want to be there it's freezing in the cold  but we don't have anywhere else to go right now is this your first time speaking from the council hi Lily Meadows management fellow I'm  used to being at the desk and not right here   but I'm the project manager for the municipal  ID program so right now the plan is for it to   be at the homeless shelter the Mac and to right  now we do want it to be I9 compliant it will be   staff is working on ordinance for it and right  now if you have any ID available then you can   use that as for your address that is still  being worked on and talked behind the scenes   but there is a solution in the works to have an  ID available for everybody would that include um   the address being the Mac I do not believe the  Mac will be the address because it's supposed   to to be a more permanent ID so we're not sure  on the actual location right now okay please   keep us updated on yes thank you council  member Johnson thanks mayor council member   hois was wearing on me um so I'll add to the  conversation um just to Lily and you don't have   to come back up but when we had a city to City  trip to Colorado Springs two years ago I think   um they actually had created their own type  of PO Box system at their shelter so that was   something that could be an idea or if it's not  at the Mac anywhere else but it was something   that really worked to allow them to use an  address that businesses also understood was   an address that was going to be used so they  weren't discriminated against and they had a   space where their mail to go or any other  documents and it works out pretty well for them Mr Eric I just had one uh update for you I  have an individual who's willing to give you a job   if you can pass a drug test so I will connect with  you after the meeting we will continue with public comment good afternoon this time Christopher  Parish show um I wanted to provide a little   bit of context on the discussion with regard  to the fines pleas speak into the microphone   a little bit of context with regard to  the discussion regarding the fines and   also inquire about something in the language  of the ordinance that stood out to me as being   interesting or odd um if a homeless individual  who has their own vehicle and is fortunate   enough to be able to stay in it was to park out  in this lot right here with the metered parking   right next to City Hall they could get a $200  fine based on this ordinance if I park my car   there and don't put a coin in the meter and come  in here and talk to you people I get a $35 fine   there's something wrong about that maybe the  fine does need to be lowered if not eliminated secondly I'm referring to my notes Here  in the ordinance it says it's unlawful   and a public public nuisance for any  person or persons to camp in or upon   any public property or public right of way  unless such a person or persons have been   granted a temporary permit allowing  such activity set forth in section 5.2.4 that section is then not listed in the  amended ordinance so I went digging that section   says that temporary camping permits can be issued  by the city manager and that the city manager   shall set forth the criteria for the application  review and so forth but it's done under the events permits when you go into look under the events permits there's nothing listed as far far as  camping it list parades it LS concerts it lists   all kinds of other things but there's nothing  in there about camping so it is mentioning a   permit which essentially doesn't exist that's  like saying here's a nice city street you can   drive on if you have a car and a driver's license  but we're not going to give you a way to get a   driver's license to drive on it so I'd like  a little bit more information about and some   followup on the creation of permits because  if some of these homeless people would like   to go down the road of trying to Camp legally  technically they can't it's also a 45 45 day   application process so they have to know almost  three months in advance that they want to camp at   this location at this time on this day some of  them don't even know where they're going to be   an hour from now thank you thank  you Chris we'll continue with public comment good afternoon Council mayor um pretty  nervous I was not planning on speaking um but I   just feel very called to um I have past experience  with SED County Department of corrections as a   juvenile officer and I've have also done um some  time working with Kansas Department Corrections   um as a PE officer um so I've definitely seen  homelessness and how it affects people um I am   currently um a crisis responder with Prairie View  and Newton um and I continue to see that being an   issue there um definitely strange seeing it in  a smaller area area um compared to witto but   despite my um past experience I am the daughter  of a homeless father um extremely hard for me   to talk about so I'm not going to spend too much  time on that um but I do know speaking from his   experience and whatever relationship I have been  able to have with him um it comes down to being   a burden to people um that's really what came  into my mind when we discussed you know police   officers offering rides and everything like  that which I I greatly appreciate um I very   much support our system um even have tried to be  a part of it um and would happily go back to it   I loved those jobs but it was just so difficult  um as I think a big disconnect is resources um I   feel like we're addressing homelessness kind of  putting the cart before the horse type of thing   um I think we really need to work on resources and  spreading the word as a peole officer I realized   that resources were very hard for people to get  to um I saw weight list for housing weight list   for Workforce just a list of things and a lot of  times when they went into those things and they   would come back um and it would be requirements  too as far as sack VIP all sorts of stuff like   that that was required of them they were fine with  coming back to me and saying I'm not doing it I'll   just take by consequences because there was a lack  of compassion because they felt like they just had   to be there um that they weren't actually getting  the help that they needed they were just getting   sat in a chair and told well this is what you  have to do per the court system and I can only   imagine how tough that is from their standpoint  um they have no cars no phones most of the time   and we talk about a revolving door um in the root  of that revolving door I think is the system and   like I said I very much support it it just needs  work um a lot of work and it's been proven that   there will be no change unless you remove that  individual from the environment um I do a lot   of looking into this just because it is very heavy  on my heart when it comes to my father um that if   you leave somebody in the same space there's no  room for them to grow no room for them to change   um it's just I don't know it just seems so  impossible when there's not somewhere else   to go to get away from that um I'll expand  my father is a drug addict um I have not   been able to reach him and that is extremely  heartbreaking for me um he's missed graduations   birthdays you name it he hasn't been there and  it's because there is a lack of communication   also about those resources I think we need  to be spreading the word and instead of   relying on them to reach out to get that help I  think we need to be extending our hands further   and I realize that we're making those steps to  do that um and I think Council I think you guys   are very much willing to reach out your hands and  to start this change um I would just really urge   that we try to do that to the best that we can to  the furthest extent um as far as some things that   have been brought up today while I was sitting  here they um get provided with the court date um   you know the whole community service thing the  fines and stuff like that I'm not going to get   too far into it because of a lot of other um great  people have spoke but we have to think sometimes   when they are served with that court date and they  can't make it sometimes jail is not a bad idea you   know they get the bed they get the food and I've  had I've had grown men tell me that before when   I was a parole officer go ahead and revoke my  parole honestly it'll give me you know I'll be   able to shower I'll get a chance of clothes and  stuff like that so that's not always a terrible   thing to them um so I think just imposing fines  and giving them a court date is just it just seems   counterproductive asking for community service  in place of the fines um why would you want to   give back to your community when you feel like  they've given up on you um last thing I'd like to   close with um sometimes around the holidays I'll  go around and I'll speak with these people and   I'll hand them you know little things of food or  little care packages and this last year that I did   it we're preparing to do that again this year um  the last year that I did this I will never forget   that we were going down the road away from the  open door and I witnessed a fist fight between   two youth that I used to have in the juvenile  detention center um and that was very difficult   and I think that speaks volumes to what we have  going on these days so thank you thank you very   much council member hoisel thank you mayor uh to  the last speaker I really appreciate you coming   forward and talking about your personal experience  um it's not we need to hear more from people who   are affected by this and not only people who  are out there on the streets but also friends   and family um this impacts family is great and so  I appreciate you having the courage to come up and   talk to absolutely thank you so much for hearing  me and it's it's nice for that to be acknowledged   because a lot of the time it just gets passed to  the Wayside but you know you specifically you two   talked about you know trauma informed care CIT  I've done all of that in my past experience I   continue to do it today I'm a crisis responder and  so I get to see these things firsthand and knowing   on a deeper level what they're going through  and not just going in surface level responding   to whatever these people have going on I know  deep down that's somebody's kid you know that's   somebody's parent that's whatever you name it  they've got connection somewhere and they used to   have a life and it's hard to like I said just with  feeling like you're a burden and feeling like they   don't deserve that connection because they're bad  for them that's actually one of the last things   that I've heard from my father is that sometimes  it's harder to stay than it is to just leave as   far as being in my life so thank you I really  appreciate it thank you for sharing that your   father will be in my thank you may I please getch  your name so that I have it correctly yes sorry   did I not state it it's Marissa Marissa thank you  very much Marissa and we appreciate um that you're   part of the solution and you also shared um your  firsthand experience I know that uh our folks here   in our community are always looking for uh those  that want to be uh solution driven and we all want   to work together towards a more compassionate  community and provide those resources and if uh   you recall the process uh when when this ordinance  if it passes it would allow for an officer or one   of the individuals to provide those resources to  the individual and know that there are resources   out there and which are those resources yes  which I am a huge fan of and I'm also so um   like I said I work for the Newton side of prair  riew not necessarily in wah but I am pushing for   um putting case management or peer support workers  and partnering them with law enforcement um I've   been talking with prair viiew about creating some  sort of jail liaison between let's connect them   with resources while they're in the jail before  they leave yes we talk about parole yes we talk   about probation but why do we need to wait for  them to come out and fail okay then we can put   you on probation and then we can get you resources  let let's start before they even get to that point   you know so thank you m I really appreciate it  thank you very much we'll continue with public comment good afternoon mayor and city council  month ago we had a workshop on this and I gave you   my personal connection at that time you want to  say I am the President of the deleno neighborhood   association and that means if you're homed if  you're unhomed if you're a render if you're a   landlord if you anyone who lays their head in  our neighborhood is one of my neighbors we try   to serve all neighbors without bias the color of  their skin their gender any reason we're going   to try to treat them as fairly as possible  we want to balance wants our compassion with   Public Safety including the safety of those who  are camping with our neighborhood I do feel it   is past time to refresh these ordinances in  2016 actually just looked it up I asked the   city manager's office for an application form to  obtain a temporary parking permit and I waited   and I waited 3 days later I was told that no such  form existed we've got the law on the books we we   have no way to get someone a temporary camping  permit and Isaac proved it the proposed changes   do not criminalize poverty but they do allow us  to give discipline for bad behavior earlier this   month we had somebody visiting my neighborhood  submit a click fix issue who stated quote tent   set up under the bridge hazardous when dark  or sun and eyes when riding on the bike path unquote they felt unsafe going underneath the Sena  Street Bridge because an 8 foot wide tent was on a   10 to 12 foot wide path ordinances are being  both ignored by both offenders and enforcers   poor hot reporting oversight as recent as this  past Saturday is happening every time there's a   homeless encampment that's put in through C click  fix the homeless Outreach team copies and pastes   thank you for submitting this request we've  seen it and are looking into it unquote then   they declare the issue closed that tent uh this  process completely blocks any transparency and   accountability the underbridge tent did not remain  for 72 hours it was on that path for 4 days under   this refreshment of the ordinance it'll be gone  immediately if we can get officers to lay their   discretion aside and enforce the laws on our books  for those unhoused individuals who are afraid due   to personal or property security concerns those  are very we concerns for them and they may have   other reasons for not wanting to live in a shelter  a neighborhood president in another neighboring   neighborhood for me asked could we find some areas  where camping would be a little more appropriate   large areas for outdoor camping maybe it's  an unused area of a park but there should   be some other options if we can't you know  we know that the mac's going to take some   time we know that the full 360 and getting  all those Services there to there together   this is just one drop in an ocean but  I think it's a small step in the right   direction any questions thank you Vincent  thank you we'll continue with public Comon good afternoon uh my name is Rabbi Andrew  pepperstone I am the co-president of Justice   together and we represent 38 Faith communities in  Sedwick County and we recognize and celebrate the   use of federal funds to invest in the mac and we  continue to call on this Council to provide full   ongoing funding for its operation which we hear  from everybody body how it would be useful for our   community and transformative expanding enforcement  will require resources and all of those resources   we heard about today could go towards the Mac  instead further we hear that humankind and there   we hear humankind and they're concern for their  ability to meet the need for shelter throughout   the coldest days of the winter we also hear  the emphasis on bed space is available and   hopefully no one will ever be denied a bed but  I am curious still and was mentioned by uh vice   mayor Ballard why should there be any removal  of bed space verification by a police officer   or city official that has no compassionate  rationale that I can conceive of I wait your response you can amend it today to take it out  or to put it back in bed bed verification should   be part of the the policy it may never be an  issue why take it out Sharon is that an actual   piece of the ordinance and if so um how do you  verify if there is a bed it is not a piece of   the ordinance currently the bed policy is in WPD  policy and I may need to ask Aon um I think one   of the intentions is is that WP would remove  that from its policy um part of it is the time   to verify I think but I'll let eron respond  to that but the the requirement that there be   a bed present is not in the ordinance the current  ordinance either correct so the current ordinance   doesn't have a bed policy neither does the  proposed ordinance it's a policy within the   police department is that correct yes and  that policy was based on case law that had   interpreted other illegal camping ordinances  through throughout the nation that that was a   requirement the Grant Pass case removed that as a  legal requirement I rather ask question of Captain Moses um it's a great question uh and this gets  into the realm of what is the police department's   role and what is not um verification of of  bed space certainly seems like a uh reason   able and realistic expectation that if we're  going to site someone for not if we're going   to site someone for camping in the street uh  and there is no other alternative that seems   problematic um but this is where we get into our  benchmarking and our looking at what what other   jurisdictions do and what other jurisdictions  do is something that myself and the chief talk   about a lot is knowing our role and knowing  what is not our role um many times the police   department are not the answer to the question and  a lot of the times we're not the answer to the   question um when we're talking about enforcement  of ordinance we look at the ordinance we certainly   take Council Direction on our policies um and  we we make decisions based on the ordinance in   our policy but what's best practice what we see  across the country in North America I spoke about   the Edmonton Police Department is a coordinated  approach to handling these these challenges which   is if there's a complaint of an illegal camp and  we go out and verify there is an illegal camp and   there is a person there uh The Next Step has to  be some conversation related to how do we do a   warm handoff or a hot handoff of this individual  experiencing homelessness to a service provider uh   right now in the ordinance we've written in that  they'll be provided information and that's great   um but what we've seen across the country and  other jurisdictions is what's better is saying   hey you can't Camp here under the bridge oh by the  way here's a person here's a person that can give   you Services here's a person that can connect you  with where you need to be or what can help you um   and that is outside of this conversation I mean  we're talking about the ordinance it's certainly   entangled um but from a from a policy perspective  I think it would be hard for us to say if there is   no shelter space available in the city anywhere uh  it would be hard for us to then tell somebody your   only method of protection from the environment  we're going to take now that doesn't we can't   tell someone you're under a bridge you're under  a piece of critical infrastructure you're in a   place that the ordinance says you can't be um and  telling that person you're going to have to move   from this location uh and doing some education and  still providing the list of resources um but our   officers routinely call different area shelters  Union Rescue Mission comes to mind you know I   myself I worked as a as a fourth shift overnight  patrol officer in the middle of the winter and a   patrol supervisor in the middle of the winter and  one of the things we do is we all have the phone   numbers for the shelters and we call them and  we say do you have bed space available uh not   necessarily related to enforcing this ordinance  but when we run into somebody who says I have   nowhere to go uh so that is something that's  incorporated into the everyday response that we do   um but I do think that it's a very good point that  um there has to be a level of uh reasonableness   to the way we enforce the ordinance and the chief  is aware of that and and that's why we review our   policy and we incorporate the language into policy  that is both Council directive and responsible and   reasonable hopefully that answers the question I  have one more question uh just a quick followup   to that so obviously the intention is not to um  send people to Jail the intention really is to   encourage them to go to available bed spaces which  there currently are available bed spaces so um how   will if this ordinance passes you're not going to  do a city wide enforcement right away it's really   to connect people to those resources so um will  you have a list of for instance the first one   would be the multi- agency uh winter shelter  and then you would ask Union Rescue Mission do   you have beds is that the line of priority you  would start calling uh I think that's a policy   discussion and I think we can talk about the  way that policy is written uh after any change   may or may not be made to the ordinance um but  we would certainly look at what the ordinance   says and then we would sit down as a staff and we  would incorporate the hot team obviously in that   conversation because of their knowledge uh and we  would we would also incorporate Reggie's staff and   director stang's staff into that conversation  about who should we be calling because again   we as the police department are trying to be very  good about recognizing when we are not the answer   to the problem or the challenge that's being  presented to us in that moment not that this   is a problem I don't want to characterize it  that way but what I'm saying is when an officer   responds to an emergency call part of what they  do is assess is this something that the police   department should or should not be involved in  and at what level so what we try to do from a   policy perspective is provide that guidance to the  officer and say if presented with this these are   your options uh that's a much larger conversation  with the resource providers in our community   and with director Stang and and the park staff  holistically about how this ordinance if approved   would be enforced again I I I don't believe that  Chief Sullivan would take the stance that um if   there is no place for someone to go that we  would site them for violating the ordinance   I imagine that that practice would remain the  way that that it is uh council member hoisel   thank you mayor um one question for you captain  and then one question for Sharon um if we have   this if the ordinances as it currently reads um  and we have a a campsite that is a health hazard   are we able to um maneuver through that to get the  campsite cleaned up or moved if again one of the   really bad ones in the middle of a neighborhood  absolutely and that would be our primary goal our   primary goal would be to go out make contact  and tell this person the unhoused person or   people this is the this is the law in Witchita you  cannot Camp here this is an immediate removal you   also cannot camp in these other places and here  are the restrictions um but it leads to a much   larger conversation of uh what does the handoff to  Services look like and I would I would say based   on my limited experience in Deal uh working with  the unhoused population but what we're hearing   here and what I've heard other places is um a  pamphlet while providing good information may   not be the best answer to that question um but  that's also I don't know the police department's   place to answer that question uh we're happy to  hear from other people the experts in the field   to tell us here who you should call and here's  what we think a warm handoff or a hot handoff   to Services looks like and we're we're certainly  open and and willing to incorporate incorporate   those things into our processes because we've  seen that that's what works across the world I   appreciate that um so to shorten it up um shelter  space is no impediment to um cleaning up actual   health hazards anything that is a danger  to the no okay I appreciate that uh Shar   um I mean it strikes the language out from this  ordinance that or the individual or individuals   are deemed homeless and are no appropriate  shelters available for them um so is is that   that was never in the ordinance okay why it's why  is it stricken from the unlawful camping ordinance   that we have here page four in the uh the second  the one that we show up the process of cleaning it up 52 yeah 520 020 the way the Cur the from what I understand  the way the uh ordinance currently reads is um   unless such persons or persons have been  granted a temporary permit allowing such   activity as set forth in chapter you're  I'm so you're on to a different question   5.2 0.040 still exists it just was not amended  in this packet so that's why it's not repeated   in this packet okay so that's currently the  ordinance right okay yeah and and it's still   there I mean there is still a process to get  a temporary permit um the ordinance says that   that temporary permit is limited to a special  event um because that comes back to the much   larger conversation of do we want to authorize  permits for people to camp on our public property   and and since 2013 the policy has been that  we don't allow people to camp on our public property so so 040 is still there but is  that not pertaining to unlawful camping   that's the so it doesn't have to be  just for a special event right that   could also be no the the unlawful camping  that we have currently no currently um 5 5.2.4 says that the city manager May issue  a temporary permit to allow camping on   public property or the storage of personal  property on public property in connection   with a special event right and then there's a  comma there's period special event is intended   to include and then it lists certain things  um but I don't read the ordinances currently   allowing the city manager to designate Hyde  Park or Watson Park um to allow camping for   a month a year a day um just if I want to  go and pitch my tent I I don't read that   ordinance as allowing that to occur so  this is not included in the Grant's Pass   decision here this isn't the language  change from the Grants Pass changes oh oh okay hold on Che that out okay okay um I stand corrected we we are taking  out the language on o2o the end and and there are   no appropriate shelters available for them that is  correct we are taking that up from the ordinance   okay I just wanted to I stand corrected all right  thank you I just yeah just no and to the speaker I   do plan on offering some amendments after we are  done with public comments so just wanted to give   you a heads up there vice mayor Ballard thank you  that is the ordinance that I was talking about um   and also to um Captain Moses I just I think you  commented to what I was was talking or alluding   to earlier about you didn't say this isn't the  police's role but I think that's what you were   like getting at so I when I was talking about  earlier kind of opening up the door for just   anybody to be able to address this that's  kind of what I mean like that's what the hot   team like specializes in and so I'm just really  concerned again about just kind of opening that   up for anybody to address so anyway I just want  to make that comment and um comment on Sharon's ordinance we'll continue with public comment hello and thank you for the opportunity  to uh speak my name is Reverend Jacob poter and   I'm the uh pastor at Witchita United Church  of Christ located at 5 200 East 31st Street   South um and I also live in district 6 at um 2313  George Washington bouevard there actually a couple   of things that I think specifically about this  ordinance and the way that it changes the current   policy but there's two of them in particular I  want to pay attention to um the reality is and   I think we've talked about this in quite a few  ways is without sufficient Community Resources   or shelters or supported housing resources for  people who are camping especially in under uh   UND developed public property and Parks these  changes will have very little Improvement and   potentially significant adverse impacts on  people we all know that clearing camps only   pushes people to new camps and further away  from potential services that they need it SWS   distrust as we've witnessed between people and  their government and their community and the   decreases the opportunity for future connection  with services and Pathways forward in the future   simply giving someone a resource sheet as  Captain's mentioned I appreciate this uh   with possible services and support is insufficient  having someone to hand off uh someone to provide   services is necessary but the second issue which  has come up a couple times um is a particular   concern is the increase in those authorized  to enforce ordinance beyond the hot team the   homeless Outreach team to include City staff  which the list is is quite exhaustive actually   who may or may not be trained in harm reduction  or ensured to have sufficient familiarity and   training with the specific issues our unhoused  neighbors face I think the captain actually   said himself that his familiarity um makes him  sort of question what his role is in certain   situations and I don't think the changes to the  ordinance take that into account um sufficiently   especially troubling is the line included in  the city manager's discretion to designate   other unspecified individuals staff or otherwise  apparently or employees of the city any changes to   or to the ordinance and enforcement of current  law must be preceded by appropriate training   and resources ready at the point of need at the  point when someone has an interaction that's your   responsibility that's our responsibility before  offering the changes that you're presenting at   least Tri funding the hot team first maybe they're  not working sufficiently maybe they're not staffed   maybe they're not paid enough to do the work  there's a fair amount of money that goes towards   developments and tax incentives for developments  that could potentially be redirected but that's   a different subject we could at least try funding  the Mac completely and having a plan for services   handoffs we have the responsibility to do the  good that is ours to do these changes seem to   me and in other cities that I've lived in have  gone through different scenarios like this like   another avoidance of our responsibility and the  hopes that people disappear that maybe if we move   them from this Camp they won't appear someplace  else neither the current or proposed ordinances   will address the human needs we witness it cannot  make people go to a shelter which seems like the   only actual goal considered nor should it compel  someone to go to a shelter if they can't go if   they maybe have pets if maybe they're transgender  there are lots of reasons why a shelter is not a   good place for people if fines or forms of arrest  and whatever wording you want to use whether it's   actually arresting or giving someone a citation  cannot make someone use provided resources that   we might think they need and if they don't work  then the only result is increased criminalization   that's the only thing that's actually changing  because you can't compel people to take the   resources that that may not be appropriate for  them or that may not be good for them that day   please vote no on these changes and in addition  reconsider the current I think there are better   ideas out there until we have a full plan to  address the needs of those already criminalized   for simply existing in our community without a  private place to sleep we should not increase   the burden of criminalization on them thank you  thank you Reverend we will continue with public com oh wow good afternoon Tim Dugger 924  West Douglas in deleno um I want to thank   you all all of you for working very hard  on this problem it is a problem where I   I know you're from Desperate sides of the  uh political Spectrum I we got Democrats   Republicans Libertarians I I think we've made  a lot of progress um I want to choose my words   carefully the first thing I would say is  this we've heard a lot about the 300 to   600 homeless people in witta I want to talk as  one of the 300 to 600,000 taxpayers in which   we're already spending 8 million on this problem  I think that shows we're a kind and compassionate   people but I appreciate in what you have done  that you're starting to push back that I have   the right to walk out of my front door and not  see somebody urinating defecating fornicating   shooting drugs causing Havoc um trying to destroy  my property that we have the right to say that's   not allowed we have the right to use a sidewalk  as a sidewalk we have the right to feel safe in   our neighborhoods um we are doing a lot right now  to help people but the other thing thing I don't   know who else left here you have to want to help  yourself if you're not willing to to ask yourself   s okay I'm in a bad situation I'm homeless am I  willing to stop doing the things that got me here   in the first place that's where I think you know  talking about findes and these things that's where   these things you can be compelled to do some of  these things to get help in high school my class   was out of control the principal came in and said  as of now everybody there are no extracurricular   activities he got our pension he come compelled  us to listen to him and to change what we were   doing because we want I I was into sports but  there were he just shut us down that's called   being compelled sometimes you must be compelled to  take care of yourself again we're spending a lot   of money on people who are refusing to take care  of themselves for whatever reason sit situations   happen mental illness drug alcohol abuse I know  it's all in there but at some point you have to   stop and say okay I want help and I'm willing to  take it but in the meantime until you reach that   point I as a taxpayer have a right to use the  sidewalks the parks the the uh walkways the U   bicycle paths without fear I in Delano there  are people who have to come to work and get   somebody to move out of their business entrance  way because somebody said set up camp there   overnight that shouldn't be we have got to balance  this and I think this plan is a great step forward   in balancing the rights of the homeless with the  rights of those of us who don't think the taxpayer   owes us for food clothing and shelter that we try  to do this ourselves so I'm going to ask that you   all vote Yes on this and yes there's some good  input from the from everybody here including   hey maybe on city-owned property set up a  campground somewhere that's fine that may   not be a bad idea but when businesses are trying  to do business we can't have people doing all this   right in front of their business because that runs  people away so again thank you for all you've done   I know this is a step forward it's not the end  all this is a huge problem if we could if it if   it could have been fixed we had already fixed it  by now but it's a step in the right direction it   is allowing people dignity it's allowing people to  get the help that they need sometimes they need to   be compelled to get the help that they need and  that's okay too but thanks again for what you've done thank you Tim we will continue with public comment Dean Smith United Methodist open door we  are very aware of the issues we've we've been at   this for a long time we've had conversations  a long time my so my you've already heard it   all I don't I don't think I think the thing that  we all agree on that there is a problem what the   ultimate solution is we have some agreement but  I don't think that this ordinance you've already   got one I think there are a lot of resources  in how that can be and has been enforced um   I have to clear our our doorways to get in to  to do Services we provide for the homeless um   we have seven right now uh windows that have been  broken out that's not what we used to do right the   behavioral health issue so we all agree there's  a problem I don't know that um impelling somebody   in this way is going to be the solution because  then you have to have the resources in order when   when you finally get them to say yes whether on  their own vition or or compelling them to do so   you have to have the resources I ask that there  is obviously confusion about what this proposed   ordinance would do and how it would be carried  out that you uh postpone your vote to get more   input from those that have experienced being  unhoused those who try to provide services   each and every day from those business owners  and folks who care I understand that the staff   has done a lot of work but the staff is the staff  and there's a lot of other feedback that could be   given and I think to the point where it' be  very helpful having four officers for a huge   um city is not adequate those that will enforce  anything that putting before but opening it up   to anybody and everybody is also a safety hazard  so all those kinds of things have been brought   up I just ask that you take a moment the Mac  it won't even be fully open until the end of 2025 we hope if depending on construction  and all those kinds of things the full   impact of that will not be totally  known there are so many things can   we not take a break breath and gather the  information gather the input gather the   expertise the knowledge to do this in the  way that's going to be the best it could be thank you Dean I will have a clarification  question maybe for Sharon can you just clarify   um once again the enforcement piece of it uh of  this ordinance will still lie on law enforcement   correct yes um the ordinance does allow  other parties to enforce the ordinance   um as written it doesn't specify who  charges versus who cleans up um that   sounds like that may be a concern and  and we can certainly Wordsmith that   language that citations would be issued by law  enforcement but these other law enforcement and   uh witcha airport and fire because they are law  enforcement um and then other cleanups types   activities that are allowed under this ordinance  the posting of the posting of the notice cleaning   up the location um could be handled by those  other departments so that that's a policy decision   so that would could be a change from the bench  an amendment to just say citations simply very   clearly citations only only by law enforcement  and cleanups and notice by other entities as   well is that correct yes thank you very much for  that clarification we will continue with public comment uh good afternoon mayor and Council Ben  Davis uh 420 North Rutland Street uh witw Kansas   um appreciate the opportunity to speak before you  guys this afternoon for a few minutes we've heard   a lot of a lot of great comments um I'm here  to speak as a concerned parent um I want to uh   acknowledge a couple different things um first  of all just the difficult task that all of you   have um in a representative democracy uh you sit  here and having to weigh competing interests of a   lot of different parties and people and factions  and trying to do so you know representing each of   those parties with you know integrity and dignity  and so this is a very difficult job I don't envy   you at all um and these are difficult decisions  but I I appreciate the fact that you're sitting   here and that you're willing to take the time  to hear from all the various viewpoints of the   community um but I do um implore you and ask  you to to strongly consider supporting um this   ordinance uh I 100% think that this ordinance um  is is not a criminalization of of being homeless   and I I think the gentleman who spoke a few  moments ago go that is so irresponsible uh given   everything that the ordinance says and does all  the clar all the clarifying comments that we've   heard from staff uh from others um I think that's  that kind of language is so irresponsible um it   does not do that I think I'm more proud of this  city than ever in the lengths um that we have   taken to be a Kind and Generous uh Community to  the most vulnerable Among Us recognizing that this   is a very very difficult issue it's a very complex  problem I don't think there's any one solution I   think there's a series of tradeoffs and some  of those trade-offs are better than others but   I don't think we'll ever solve anything I don't  think there's any policy that will ever do that   but I I see that this law this ordinance is making  some tweaks to an already existing ordinance uh we   have an established history of how these things  have been enforced there's not seem to be any   real issues with that um but this provides some  clarity and tightening up I appreciate the fact   that it's doing that as a tax payer as a citizen  and more than anything as as a parent um I did   not go I did not grow up in in a very wealthy  family I was the first person in my family to   go to college um we were low middle class at  best so when my wife and I had an opportunity   through just grinding really grinding to be  able to afford a home in in a decently nice   neighborhood to provide a better life for  our two sons we were over the moon about it   and this summer my 9-year-old who likes to go down  by our house there's a creek and play and build   forts with his friends comes back to our house  terrified because there's a homeless encampment   there trash stuff everywhere fortunately I was  able to get a hold of councilwoman Becky Tuttle   who was very responsive to my call she got me  connected with officer Nate our our hot team   our police force is just second to none I'm so  proud of witw City Police Department Officer Nate   got a hold of me immediately and began to take  the steps to do a 72-hour notice and clearing   up the camp and all that but it took days it took  almost two weeks to clear all of that up there's   been an increase of panhandling in and around our  neighborhood which has led to more homelessness   coming out building camps we've had to call these  are not malicious citizens this is not some kind   of like you know rat out policy that you saw like  it's Soviet Style these are concerned citizens   neighbors that are seeing their own neighborhoods  being completely destroyed and trashed seeing   their kids not be able to go outside and play  which is absolutely their right in their own   neighborhood to be able to do because they're  seeing homeless encampments come trash being flung   all over the place drug needles being being laid  out in the grass my son's school because there's   panhandling nearby had a a a gentleman that  apparently had been panhandling at one of the   local intersections came by to a group of fourth  grade girls who were having a math lesson outside   on a beautiful day and asked for their phone  and said that he was going to kill them if they   did not hand the phone over of course they were  terrified and went to go get a teacher now I'm not   trying to paint a broad brush of all the homeless  I've met plenty of homeless people who are kind   wonderful and generous people who just happen  to fall on hard times and they need a hand up   and no way am I trying to do that but there  clearly is a faction that is growing dangerous   or just out of control or just doesn't care  about public property and as a father as a   citizen as a taxpayer I'd say let's enact this  ordinance and possibly even go further thank you thank you Ben we will  continue with public comment good afternoon city council and mayor woo my name  is Bill vicory I live at 1542 South Spring Hollow   Circle I've lived in witch my whole life um I am a  retired attorney uh I work downtown for 45 years I   currently go to First United Methodist Church  uh which on the side you know where we go all   go in is to Pika Street and um the Methodist  uh shelter that we have so I'm well aware of   what the homeless situation is I joined the dark  group as soon as it started almost two years ago   the Justice together group we worked diligently to  find Solutions reasonable solutions to protect the   community and our compassion towards homeless  people Mar wo was great ious enough to come to   our Nehemiah meeting where 1,400 people got  together in May and offered solutions to the   city and county leaders one of those Solutions  was an ID program that's still not in place but   at least we're working on it that was one of the  biggest things that caused people to be homeless   not having an ID we put together a mental health  program where there are now teams that go out in   Mental Health crisis to save the police from  having to do that we also uh put together a   program for homelessness that involved the mac  and we got pledges from state county and City   officials to fully fund the Mac facility that  is not happened so we don't know whether the Mac   is going to help solve these problems until it's  fully funded and in place or not we haven't given   it a chance this year our issue is affordable  housing we're going to find some solutions that   would help give these people their private space  at least the ability to potentially have somewhere   that they can go and be housed other than a  shelter and we will come up with Solutions   and we will present them to you now I know Sharon  I practiced in municial court for many years this   is a criminal ordinance isn't it please say that  loud yes what is going to come out of this if   you pass this ordinance the headline Witchita  city council criminalizes homelessness people   there's nobody in this room compared to everybody  out there they haven't heard everything that's   gone on in this room what they're going to hear is  that the Witchita City Council made homelessness a   crime that's what they're going to hear that's the  gist of it that's the gist of what you're doing   period you are making it a crime if the police are  going to enforce the ordinances as they're written   it's a crime and you know what I'm a taxpayer too  I've paid taxes here my whole life I get that but   I understand how writing all of these notices to  appear that have to be processed through municipal   court and then the people aren't going to show  up then the court has to issue a warrant enter   it into the system then when a police officer runs  into one of these people there's a warrant their   obligation is to pick them up take them down and  process them through through the county jail and   then they'll be given probably released o and  then given another date that they won't show   up for and then another warrant gets issued is  all that free do you police officers work for   free does the Municipal Court work for free the  burden the financial burden is going to be more   than what it is to fully Finance the mac and to  put together a program to try to solve the problem   not push it under the rug so um that's really  all I've got to say if any of you want to ask   any questions I'd be glad to try to answer council  member John ston thank you and thanks for com to   speak appreciate that I do want to uh maybe you  haven't heard there seems to be a narrative and   Justice together that we have not fully funded  the Mac when in case we have have $650,000 I   think no $8 million to build it to build it5  million for the next two years okay so we have   fully funded the Mac for the next two years now  where just together needs to worry about and we   need to worry about is after two years it goes  to zero we have budget crisises coming our way   so we're going to need help from churches to help  support this Mac so I hope that Justice together   and all the churches in the city will will keep  that in mind and uh really help support the Mac   we've given a running start we' got two years  going yep we do appreciate that yeah uh we're   invested in it and and I guess what I'm saying  is if it's not going to be continually funded   then we really have kind of wasted the money uh  to get it set up and going if people aren't going   to make a commitment to make sure that it keeps  going right you know you've wasted $8 million on   the building if it isn't going to be funded in the  future so we've g a running start we can't fully   fund it forever I understand but I understand  you know what we need help from we're going to   give some I'm sure in the future we need help  from County help from State help from churches   help from foundations has to be a community effort  not just a city we and that's our whole goal is to   put together state federal local funding for  projects to make them happen so that we have   Solutions criminalizing homelessness is not a  solution well I appreciate you being engaged   and hope you stay engaged and appreciate  everything you done well we're working and   hopefully we can come up with something for  affordable housing that will help eliminate   that's going to be the bottleneck right there  some issues yeah I agree thank you Bill and   just for the record it is we already have an  ordinance right now where it is illegal to   have camping in front of sidewalks and streets uh  and underneath Bridges this is just codifying it   so that the reduction of a fine is also in that  ordinance so it already is illegal to have a camp   on a sidewalk right now is that correct Sharon yes  thank you very much we will continue with public comment hi I'm Alicia I'm from uh district one  uh thank you all for being here and hearing us   out today um and I'm grateful that we're even  having this discussion um a little bit about me   I'm Witchita born and raised um I in my youth  grew up in Miracles if anyone is familiar with   that I also grew up in a homeless shelter  myself as a youth in Chicago Pacific Garden   Mission um so I do have personal experience  there um a big part of my family getting into   systems like that was our family support I  worked at humankind last year um and you know   I am so proud of witch all I'm I'm um I'm proud  to be a witch native and be from this town and   live in this town and I'm really proud that uh  We've invested so much into uh humankind and the   other organizations but working at humankind  it is you know you go there to sleep and you   get a little meal um there's not much more  to it maybe you can get some kind of clothes   maybe you can get some kind of um sanitary  items but you know you're stuck in a room   all day no activities you know there are still  problems with those systems um I will say that um   it says an estimated of 20% of young adults who  are in care of the foster care system become   homeless the moment they're emancipated at the age  of 18 and Nationwide 50% of homeless population   spent time in the foster care system and that's  from the National Foster youth Institute so that   just kind of reinforces the idea that people need  to have a support system you know it's really hard   out there I think it's hard enough to live dayto  day they let alone go out and get these resources   another thing I saw is that there were upwards of  600 homeless people in which a t Kansas um in 2023   according to KSN and you know there was only less  than 300 beds at humankind right and only 78 beds   for women um there's a lot of sacrifices made with  the choice of going into a shelter um you have to   let go of personal items um you have to share an  environment with a bunch of other people that you   don't know there's still things that go on within  shelters that may feel unsafe for people to even   go into a shelter and be around other people  that they may know from the streets already   and another thing you know there's not a place for  mother and children you know a lot of families and   people today are one or two paychecks to facing  homelessness um I have a lot of support system   myself I'm able to share resources with other  people but not a lot of people have that luxury   and then another thing is um a lot of the people  that came into humankind suffered from mental   physical disabilities and illnesses so how do you  expect these people to be able to to go and get   those resources for themselves I believe um it's  a huge dishonor to humanity itself and the witch   talk Community to criminalize homelessness it is  criminalizing homelessness and also um unhoused   people do pay taxes they do contribute to the  local economy they do have jobs they're not a lot   yes some of them may be drug addicts but but you  know that may just be a stepping stone in their   story for Recovery um and it's a sad truth that  a lot of people do hate homeless people they hate   poor people and it's very evident when they come  up here and care more about property than they do   human lives um I love humankind I love that you  guys have invested so much into it and I'm really   proud of that and I've seen you know you're  offering work available for people I think PR   in work you know not being able to stick to a  certain schedule um while you're dealing with   homelessness until you get stable um but yeah I'm  against the fines against the en encampments and   homelessness is a crime against humanity I think  we should address the causes of homelessness thank you thank you Alisia we will continue with public comment hello my name is Cecilia and I am a  member of Del Rose United Methodist Church   and I also work with a local nonprofit that  offers shelter to families within the Witcher   Tai area and um I've also worked in worked  with people experiencing homelessness and   to conferences and worked with leaders around  housing issues and homelessness for over a   decade now um so I've seen across the country  other cities uh pursue their resources and their   time um addressing the homelessness problem uh  in a lot of different ways and I think that it's   really inhumane to criminalize to use uh to use  your resources to criminalize homelessness um   and I want to share some comments that um some  of my co-workers shared with me um today you   know we've got a we got a full staff uh working  with families and we have a limited capacity for   how many people we can serve at a time um  so our my co-workers said that they think   that um this is not a long-term solution for  addressing the issue of homelessness uh they   believe that this continues the cyclical problem  of people continuing to you know get fined go into   the system and then go back and be homeless  again um and you know I don't know if any of   you have ever worked with people experiencing  severe mental health issues I've worked with   people with schizophrenia and um I will say  it's it's not a easy it's not easy to work   with people experiencing those issues and so um  an understaffed 200 plus bed shelter is not the   place for people experiencing those that level of  psychosis um and neither is a family shelter um   so the models that I've seen that have actually  been effective in other places have been people   who've decided to use their resources to focus  on affordable housing and a tiered approach to   permanent Supportive Housing and transitional  housing there are people that you probably saw   in this room today that you see on the street  that will never have a job they will never be   able to work they're physically disabled they're  mentally disabled and they need the support   to be housed and they're putting them in a  a congregated living shelter is not going   to solve that um people are also my co-workers  are also concerned that you know a lot of the   folks that they've worked with have distrust  with armed officers um and mental health pref   professionals should really be the ones responding  to those issues um so that doesn't seem like the   appropriate professional to be approaching someone  experiencing um homelessness and yeah I I think um   I think we kind of Disconnect from the problem  because we're not really facing it ourselves   but I would ask each of you to go stay at the  humankind shelter what if you did that tomorrow   night it sounds like there's beds available what  if you went and stayed there and just see what   that experience is like and I'm only trying to  humanize the issue a congregated living shelter   is not a safe place it's kind of left like a  refugee camp and I think our city has so many   more resources so many more intelligent people  that could put their minds together to address the   real core issue which is affordable housing and  having permanent Supportive Housing I've been in   conversations even this week with people who are  trying to put their together to figure out how can   we expand affordable housing in this community and  I appreciate that you offer this space for people   to share testimony and experiences you guys got  some really long meetings um but I wonder if we   had spent this chunk of time today just thinking  about the people we know the resources we have   what could we do to address the core problem  which is that people don't have a place to live   and they're not going to be able to get a job if  they're staying in shelter um so yeah I I would   really encourage you to think about if you woke  up tomorrow and when you close the door you're not   able to come back you can carry what you have and  you have no family and you have no one that you   can stay with what would you do where would you  live where would you stay and I've actually played   this out in my head too I've helped people try to  find places that they could maybe stay for night   um if they don't feel safe staying in a shelter if  they're not allowed to stay in the shelter because   they've been banned from the shelter because of  their mental health issues um and their behaviors   so yeah I would just encourage you to think if you  had to deal with this issue yourself tomorrow how   would you feel about this ordinance and I would  urge you each of you to vote against it thank you thank you Cecilia we'll  continue with public comment hi I'm Christina Monero I am the pastor at  learning Avenue Midnight Church we are also   part of uh justice together and I wanted to come  and speak today just to um add my voice to the   nose against this ordinance and my from what I  have heard and I've learned a lot today and kudos   to you guys you really do have long meetings  I have a count like a church council meeting   tonight and if it goes 2 hours I'm going to be mad  so this is I'm really I I know this goes on for a   long time so I really appreciate all that you do  and all that um everyone in this room has done to   help try to get this system working and I believe  you when you say you don't really want to just be   you certainly don't want to be rounding people  up and putting them in prison that I I hear you   about loud and clear and I believe that you want  to take a compassionate approach I'm worried that   that without certain steps that this is just going  to end up further criminalizing homelessness kind   we've heard that it the illegal camping already  exists um and that's something that I have   personally have a problem with but obviously it's  not what we're discussing today but this further   it makes it even harder to be homeless in our city  and I think that's a really frustrating and not   a very smart move for just ultimately being comp  taking a compassionate approach um without the Mac   funded beyond the next two years and I get what  you're saying like how can we know what's going   to happen in the next two years but without that  what are we going to do with the hot team being   I think somebody said four people that's very  small for the city this size um like what are our   long-term Solutions and I don't think these are it  I don't think they think this especially in hands   of people who perhaps are are less committed to a  compassionate response could get really dangerous   for folks um and maybe just to close I might just  remind us that last year and I don't know the   numbers for this year but the uh 42 people died on  the streets and that's unacceptable um I think uh   I have uh verse from Jeremiah 2 um verse 34 and I  hate doing this cuz out of context but I'll only   read you the one verse it's just on the on your  clothes is found the lifeblood of the innocent   poor though you did not catch them breaking in  what have these folks done I I feel personally   responsible to some I feel some responsibility  for anyone who dies if I could help keep that   from happening so I urge you to remember that  and put that in our heads so that we don't have   the lifeblood of the innocent poor upon us thanks  thank you very much for speaking I will just add a   quick comment because it is not Humane to allow  Neighbors in our community and I believe anyone   in the city is neighbor it is not Humane for any  of our neighbors to live on the street and out   in the cold when there are 160 beds to 130 beds  available right now we will continue with public comment good afternoon my name is Amanda Myers  um I wasn't planning on speaking so I'll try and   cut off my time for my other issue that I'm  actually here for um but I've been here all   day and I've I wanted to just boil down some  what I thought were some Salient points um I   think it's appropriate that the headline is that  homelessness is being criminalized if you continue   striking out the language that says if bed space  is available um I think that's important language   um I represent survivors of domestic violence as  most of you know um who are considered homeless   um and we see a lot of victims who show up at  our doors um who have been victimized in the   emergency winter shelter um I I seconded  the woman who said um I think it's almost   impossible coming from where we've a lot of us  have come from to imagine a world in which we're   homeless but please please I prail upon you um  and I hope that your constituents do as well   to go spend some time at that winter shelter  please it's terrifying we won't even put an   advocate there um I also wanted to raise the uh  again raise the point that Captain Moses raised   which is not we are criminalizing homelessness by  using the police to do what needs to be done by   case managers okay um so bed space available  criminalizing um homelessness with um beds   uh by using the police in this role and then  finally um to the point about fines so the way   fines work I mean most of us have taken economics  they're a deterrent if you have a choice like   that's the right like the idea is that a fine  is a deterrent because you don't want to pay   you you don't do the activity because you don't  want to pay the fine you don't have the money to   pay the fine it's not a deterrent right it's just  pointless so it doesn't do the what you're trying   to do um and so I have a couple more points  but I won't take up so much of your time um   the only other thing that I wanted to say um to  to council member Johnston's point is um because   I'm a little bit of two minds on this issue is is  I do think that this is willfully under privately   funded as someone who's raised a lot of money and  leveraged money from the city I I really think you   um hit it on the head a couple times today that  um especially you know in their business out there   neighbors out there that they don't want to see  this they don't want to be around this you know   I don't want to you know they're compassionate  they care I think there is it's stunning to me   how Wolly under private funded this is and that's  not your role here but I wanted that on the record   so again those are my points thanks for your  time thank you Amanda we'll continue with public comment I was a little out of breath because I  hurried here because I didn't think the meeting   would be going this long and I was able to  able to make it uh Faith Martin 608 South   jury um I've been listening online most of the  day and there's just kind of three points that   other speakers had brought up that I'm hoping  that you will uh listen to one of them was uh   I think his name was Piper and he talked about  where's the data to support the decision that   you're making today and then that would take me  into the question that we always ask when policy   or laws are being created what problem are you  trying to solve with this ordinance because if   it's to solve homelessness that's not accurate  that's not being solved with this ordinance if   it's helping people that's not the problem this  is solving so I would like to know what problem   you think this is solving because from what I've  heard today it sounds like it's creating more   problems um and then I'm sorry out of breath  I really did hurry and then the um the third   piece would be um if this is such a good idea  why have so many speakers talked about forcing   and compelling people to do this good ideas do not  require force it should be I don't know I would I   would encourage you to not only not vote on this  today but to table it until we have more data like   a more accurate point in time count that's coming  in January so you can hear from the people that   are actually going to be impacted by this till  we have an answer for uh a why are we doing this   where's the data to support it but also um who's  going to be in uh working with this community if   it's not the police and how are if it's not to  criminalize people then why are we passing an   ordinance that the end result is criminalizing  people because if you go through that process   like it's stated there will be bench warrant there  will be whether or not it was five before this is   a different ordinance and it could be higher so  I apologize for the jumbled thoughts but I wanted   to get down here before public comment you know  where's the data to support the decision you're   making today why are we trying to compel or  Force anyone to do anything if our services   are so good then we shouldn't have to force people  to utilize them and then um just where's the data   to support the action today thank you thank  you Faith we'll continue with public comment my name is Reverend Travis  Smith mcke I live at 1509   North Sheridan uh in uh uh Ballard's District um I wanted first as a person of Faith as a Witchita  resident as somebody who works in Riverside as   somebody who sees people has listened to  the uh concerned citizens here um who has   done research with Justice together but has  heard those who have experienced homelessness   I don't appreciate the broad brush that has been  painted with because I've heard the stories of   the people who have been trying to get housing  my wife and I have good jobs we are making in   meat and in 2021 when we first tried to buy  a house we put in offers on five different   houses and got out bid our only option was to pay  over $1,300 a month for a place for our family to live my sister is a single woman one income  and is afraid to move right now because she   has lived in her same apartment for seven years  if she moves her rates will go up tell me where   you can find affordable housing that is the first  and foremost issue right here is that we do not   have enough affordable housing in this community  and so I come back to an issue that has been that   is in this ordinance it is on page four of 13 in  this document right here it has been brought up by   multiple speakers that the stri the language  that is being struck says um it is that they   cannot Camp unless such a person or persons have  been granted a temporary permit and the language   of the struck or the individual or individuals  are deemed homeless and there are no appropriate   shelters available for them I understand today  that today's numbers allow for some beds to be   there and I would hope that we would have more  um case managers we would have people who are   well trained in order to get people to come out  and use those shelter beds to use the resources   that we have I'm thankful that we are going  to see the multi- agency Center coming into   fruition and I'm thankful that we are taking that  approach but until that time the proposal that you   have says it it takes out the language if there  are no appropriate shelters available for them   I ask where do they go my family and I in order  to live somewhere because of the lack of housing   we had to pay over 1,300 a month just in rent we  now have a house we're now able to build equity   we're now able to get things started but what do  you do if you're not able to get a house what do   you do if you're not able to have a residence  in order to have a job in order to take care   of yourself and get better this ordinance strikes  the language of no appropriate shelters available   and I'm wondering what the solution is for  that I ask again like Rabbi pepperstone my   friend and colleague are you going to strike  that are you going to continue to strike that   language do you remember that it's there  on page four of the document that you have   online I ask you will you commit to leave  leing the language in about availability for shelters is there anyone  else to speak for a public comment Madam vice mayor and Council rich Rich  Harris 3031 West pawy sweet 200 uh I have a lot of   experience with the homeless I was once homeless  myself when I was a teenager and I can tell you   what the experience is like sleeping with the  snowf falling on your head I know how tough it   is for people on the street and I know how people  can get there without having been on drugs without   having been on alcohol without having mental  illness and without having a criminal history   you can still be homeless in Witchita under the  the best of circumstances in your own personal conduct in the years since the decad since  I have dealt with dozens hundreds of poor   homeless and near homeless people throughout the  city providing with all kinds of assistance as I'm   able but I'm just one of the many people that are  needed to do this job one of the concerns I have   here is some misinformation first of all uh to  some extent it's been implied that because the   Supreme Court of the United States has said  that you do not have to have beds before you   can arrest people doesn't mean that it's an  acceptable moral Behavior it does not mean   that you're supposed to do it according to a  conservative interpretation of the Constitution   we don't have to have a police department we  don't have to have a fire department we don't   have to have public libraries or public schools  we don't have to have streets or stoplights   but' be pretty danged irresponsible if we didn't  have them the idea the idea that we would live   our lives according to what the minimum is that  the law requires is a very shallow view of human   existence it's obvious that the city is not yet  serious about the Mac or the council uh mostly   spending its money gathered from other sources  we had somebody here say 300,000 taxpayers have   should have a voice in this well you've told  us that millions are going to be spent by the   city but it's not City money the millions being  spent are federal money money from the rest of   the people of the United States not just Witchita  the 300,000 the 300,000 people here are willing   to put up 600,000 in in annual costs for the Mac  600,000 600,000 out of 300,000 people that's two   bucks ahead here is that as generous as witch  to gets how much did you spend on a couple of   ouses for the park now let's be very clear  that you don't have to attack the homeless   to get them to want to go into shelter you just  have to have shelter that they would want to go   into the Mac is obviously an unfit shelter you're  cramming too many people together too close and   lots of homeless people that I've tried to get to  shelter have told me they can't go for a variety   of reasons one of the most common reasons is  they've been banned from a shelter the mentally   ill frequently get banned from shelters and are  left out on the streets will we take away their   their housing with no no warning whatsoever and  be able to leave them out there to freeze to death   that's definitely allowed in the proposed  ordinance changes they don't go there because they   don't want to deal with other addicts or criminals  they don't go there because they're women who are   afraid of encountering abusers they don't go there  because they've got pets and they don't want to   be separated from their pets they don't want to be  separated as couples so you don't even have family   shelters adequate to the family needs so you  can't talk about the max shelters if it's a magic   solution and you certainly can't be talking about  the Mac services that don't exist you're not going   to have those ready till sometime next year way  into next year so let's not talk about this like   this is a solution this isn't a carrot and stick  question this ordin set of ordinance proposals is   all stick the idea that you would reduce a fine to  $200 for people who can't afford $5 to eat is to   disgusting that is not that is not a generous act  let's be very clear if you want to do something   about the homeless problem in wiah get into your  pockets make a real housing solution available   stop co uh coddling all the developers who want  to build luxury housing and start demanding they   build a affordable housing and start providing it  with City money thank you council member Tuttle   thank you and thank you to the speaker I just want  to make sure that we get some accurate information   so Bob manager if I can we spent 5 million of  our American Rescue plan act dollars which was   money from the federal government that came to  us about 73 million right so 5 million and that's   for the Capital Improvements that are needed  for the Emergency winter shelter and for the   ma correct the 500 I'm sorry the five million is  for operations for operations okay sorry yes yes   so what all is the city invested besides just  from American Rescue plan act the $600,000 for   the Emergency Shel winter shelter operations  this year plus uh don't quote me but I'm   thinking it was a number North of that last  year for emergency shelter plus the up to $8   million for Capital plus the council's approved  concepts for constructing an affordable housing   project adjacent to the Mac as well as in the  same neighborhood should we be able to obtain   tax credits but we're also looking at another  approach that would build at least the first phase   of that which would be non- congregate shelter  and affordable housing units thank you very much   and then the other thing I do want to point out  is this isn't really play money the this the ma   the arpa money was Revenue replacement money to  help off set the cost of uh the pandemic on the   city and many cities and other jurisdictions close  to us use that money to backfill operations this   Council put the money into the Mac which I think  shows a difference in priorities may I also have   a follow-up question to Sally um because this  is not all encompassing um I know that this   Council and um for m multiple years has been very  supportive of affordable housing so that's also   part of that conversation can you talk about how  much in federal dollars and that are allocated uh   towards affordable housing as well right here in  our community well that's a broad broad question   so um our annual budget is around $35 million  um that is since the reduction after losing   uh car's money and uh arpa money that has come  through so it comes from multiple Federal sources   to address housing insecurity and affordable  housing through the housing Choice voucher program   cdbg home ESG every Source we can get into to help  um this this issue uh we also are attempting as   the manager um relayed you know we are definitely  working towards building more affordable housing   not just on the Mac site but uh also in sites  other sites nearby okay very much Sally and can   I also ask you one more question yep um because I  think it's important to uh recognize that the Mac   is just one of the pieces to this entire challenge  um if I am looking at the correct information and   this is from United Way um there are other  homeless shelters and transitional housing   opportunities for individuals facing homelessness  and according to this it says Crossroad sh shelter   for transitional aged youth 18 to 24 Emporia  house for veterans Harbor House for domestic   violence Open Door homeless Resource Center which  is the day shelter passageways for veterans St   Anthony's Family Shelter Catholic Charities the  Inn powered by humankind Union Rescue Mission for   men only and the witch family crisis center for  domestic violence is this a comprehensive list   that is simply missing the multi- agency Center it  it's definitely uh that hits most of the players   we have a couple of other players in in um with  Family Promise providing uh shelter for families   um as well as Miracles Mental Health Association  provides units for people uh you know with with   severe and persistent mental illness there are a  lot of players uh in this Arena the idea behind   the Mac it is just one piece to the puzzle but it  is that piece that we envision being able to bring   multiple resources a One-Stop shop so that people  can um receive assistance what we have right now   is the emergency winter shelter it is not the  Mac so when I hear people say the Mac now I'm   like the Mac doesn't exist right now um the Mac is  much more comprehensive than just emergency winter   shelter thank you Sally vice mayor Ballard thank  you thank you mayor Sally I know this is probably   just a guess but how many beds overall with the  programs that you just mentioned do you think   there are actually available and how many would  you guess maybe are is there any availability   anywhere it you know that does vary um depending  on uh agency's ability to scale up scale down the   size of of families that are occupying spaces but  we run into a lot especially um prior to the the   Shel opening this year uh for the winter there  was really no place to go for women unless they   were a victim of domestic violence um so the  fact that we're you know working to keep the   shelter open 247 even beyond the winter is going  to um be alleviate the system a lot uh when we   we interact with the hot team almost daily um  and they re are reaching out trying to find a   Bed generally it was a bed for women that was the  biggest challenge and we really believe that this   is definitely going to help but do have concerns  in capacity and the number of people that we are   going to see this year um just based on uh what's  happening in our economy rents have increased so   much we're seeing more people at needing and  asking for services than we ever have and so   I think we we can't just sit back and say mac  is the answer we have to continue to try and   find resources Partnerships and collaborations to  continue to provide more and more resources I was   just asking um in coration with the gentleman's  comment about access to affordable housing is what   we hear all the time so you know which family  crisis Harbor you know Catholic Charities all   of these different organizations have feds but  they're just not available and so that is the   constant problem that we're constantly hearing  so I appreciate his comment about you know we   need more um access to affordable housing that's  just uh not the sexy project that you know a lot   of people want to get into but that's definitely  you know what the community needs so I know we've   talked about landlord incentives and different  incentives for developers and it's just still   um something that people don't want to build or  it's not where all the money is at or but the   demand and the need when you said we have 10,000  people on the waiting list for Section 8 I mean   there just 10,000 might not get caught up in my  lifetime that's just a lot of houses to try to   come up with um might be moving here you know  for for whatever other type of housing that we   might need so yeah 10,000 families not not people  10,000 families households so the number is much   greater than 10,000 overwhelming yes very much and  you know we're going to have the same problem at   all the different types of shelters if we don't  have affordable housing units to get people to   move into we're just going to see a backlog thanks  thank you Sally we'll continue with public comment I see no public comment I see no public comment  but I did get it so we will close public comment   at this time uh just want to say thank you to  the 24 individuals who spoke before the council   regarding this topic council member Glascock thank  you mayor um I'll have some comments just at the   start earlier this year I proposed allocating  funds originally intended for the $6 million   pickle ball complex to support the shelter and  state matching after State matching funds fell   through and I just want to thank this Council  for supporting that and making this a priority   over the past year we want to ensure our laws are  enforced we also encouraging individuals seek the   shelter services available and allowing people  to live on the streets when we provide a safe   space and lifechanging resources is neither  compassionate nor Equitable for our community   by allowing people to live on the streets  or encouraging violence increas in sexual   assaults overdose overdoses unmet Health Care  needs and death all of which decrease in the o   o Open shelter space that we're providing it is  cruel to allow people live on the streets it's   not compassionate or Equitable this ordinance is  and I'm glad that this counil and City staff have   done the work to make sure they get the people  the help that they need and a City the values   responsibility and kindness we have an opportunity  to lead with Integrity ensuring no one in Witch   is left out in the cold and as a member of a  congregation that supports and is a member of   Justice together I've heard their concerns but as  discussed today nearly all of their concerns were   proven not to be weighed with truth because of  that and guided by my faith compassion and love   for my neighbors I also will just move starting  now as a opening part of the discussion that I   move that the city council place the ordinances  on first reading and authorize the necessary signatures so I hear a motion by council member  Glascock I will second that motion uh so this is   again uh as the ordinance reads so we have a  motion and a second I see multiple people on   the board um but I want to provide a substitute  motion before we begin um so I I have a substitute   motion that would take into consideration a lot  of the comments that were brought forth by this   community including concerns about a shelter or  a bed available for an individual so I want to   make sure that that does not get crossed out  so that's substitute um to that motion making   sure that there is a shelter bed available the  second thing I heard was the concern regarding   citations so I want to make sure that citations  are only issued by law enforcement not by any   other entity and making sure that cleanups and  notices can be um under the discretion um of   the groups that were listed I believe that those  were uh Public Works Park mabcd um but I want to   put one more caveat to that and that is allowing  for training so that these individuals that do   the cleanups and the notices have proper training  uh in cons in consultation with the witcho police   department's hot team so the substitute is to  make changes again to citations and who can do   the cleanups and also making sure that there  is a shelter bed available uh to individuals   uh that may uh be encountered by this ordinance  mayor with a question to that is that regarding   at the multi- agency Center the emergency shelter  or is that open shelter space in general may I ask   one of the individuals who would be carrying out  uh this ordinance if it would be more prudent to   have that just at the multi- agency Center  or shelter beds available in the community that um I think we would defer to council  intent on that I think there're what you've   heard from director stay is there are more  beds available across the system other than   just the multi-agent C multi-agency Center  or the emergency winter shelter uh I think   that our officer's ability to confirm shelter  space at the emergency winter shelter or the   multi-agency agency Center would be a little bit  easier um but I do think there would be concern   there was shelter space available somewhere else  uh and and uh we didn't utilize that so uh we   would defer to council intent on that obviously  what whatever Council approves in the ordinance   is what we would follow um those are kind of  two edges of that that I see so I will clarify   my Amendment and that would be to have a shelter  bed available in the community in the community   so second I have now a substitute motion and  a substitute motion second now we can have   discussion regarding I believe the first one is  the substitute motion is that correct thank you   council member hoisel thank you mayor um okay so  just trying to follow along where we are here we   have a second second we have a substitute  motion and is that uh parliamentary secure   if you have a second and then you go to the  uh sub substitute motion yes the substitute   motion is what is up for discussion and action  at this time all right well um I appreciate your   you uh wanting to do that that was definitely  one of the Amendments I had so I'm supportive   of the shelter space also I'd like to offer an  amendment to your um substitute motion that we go to page 10 of the proposed ordinance and we strip out the language uh by a  fine not to exceed $200 or imprisonment   for not more than 30 days or by both  such fine and imprisonment and put in   there uh shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $20 so the amendment is so the question is to me  right since I did the substitute motion if I would   accept an amendment of a fine of just $20 that  would I think that's just a friendly Amendment   you could accept or not thank you council member  hoisel um after hearing the comments regarding um   why there is even a fine so the current ordinance  is actually $500 and this proposed ordinance is a   reduction to $200 um and there's additional  language now that that is the last resort it   really is uh up to the judge what that fine  would be and it would be capped at the 200 it   could be $20 what the judge would um hand down but  I believe having a maximum allows for flexibility   for the judge to again encourage that individual  uh with I believe we mentioned multiple uh other   courts the mental health court the drug court so  so um while this is a nice friendly amendment of   $200 and I want to also make mention that you can  pay it off through Community Service as well uh at   $10 per hour so um you would have 20 hours if you  were find the maximum um as a compromise I would   be willing to say that that find could go down  to $100 uh with the ability to again do community   service in our community so that would be up to  10 hours of community service at $10 an hour so   um while I will not take your friendly amendment  I offer a um compromise of reducing that fine even   further um but it would be again reasonable if  I can Jennifer um can we amend an amendment that   way I didn't I didn't present it as a friendly  Amendment um and it just also for clarification   that means we strip out jail time if it's been one  case over 5 years that we successfully prosecuted   it and we want to make sure to send out the  signal that we're trying to build trust with the   community and uh not criminalize homelessness  um I I think this one would be acceptable   especially considering there are alternate ways  of dealing with uh potential trouble cases like   this so just a little bit of clarification  I think your Amendment probably requires a   okay thank you is there a second to your friendly Amendment second so we have a friendly amendment  of reducing it to $20 with no no jail time no   jail time seconded by council member Johnson um  so in this situation yes the vote is now before   for you is on the amendment still goes back my  AMC member so we will vote on your amendment   to reduce the fine to $20 and no jail time Madame  clerk please open the role oh sorry I apologize we   will have that's okay yeah we we will vote on  just the friendly Amendment or do you want to   speak to it beforehand I would like to if that's  okay council member title thank you thank you um   it's going to get messy and I'm sure legal's going  to have to help us a lot here um I I just wanted   to to throw this out I I figured there would be a  motion to pass as presented right and and so I've   done a lot of thinking this is a very hard vote  for me trying to find the balance um I I want   to be compassionate to those who are homeless I  understand they're EX extraordinary circumstances   I was talking with a gentleman last night and  he talked about how much stress it must be to   be homeless right this is our most vulnerable I  also understand that people in the community have   sa safety issues and and we've heard from folks  today but we've heard from people for the last   couple weeks and so what I was going to recommend  and I'm not necessarily saying this needs to be an   amendment or a friendly Amendment or an amendment  to an amendment but just something that we   marinate on and maybe it can be incorporated but  it also may help kind of solve kind of some of   this Gess that we're going through is that if if  it passed today that the caveat would be that we   request the homelessness task force to recommend  training for City witcha staff and contractors   and enforcement guidelines such to ensure an  effective transition from encampments to shelter   to housing and I was going to do that make sure  the ordinance got passed today with no delay um   but then have it go to the homelessness task force  to review it and let them make the recommendations   to ensure the efficacy of the ordinance changes  and and the rationale would be for adding this is   because the homelessness task force consists of  the homelessness providers the social and Public   Health Providers for-profits non-for-profits and  those who have experienced being unhoused so based   on some of the com ments that we've heard today  I just I'm not sure I'm kind of thinking aloud a   little bit I'm sorry but it seems like everybody  is but instead of us even making sausage from the   bench and having a friendly Amendment and more  and more I wonder if the the work could be done   by the homeless task force so just a thought if  nobody's interested in having that discussion   anymore I'm fine and we can proceed with the vote  but I did want to throw that out there thank you so this is not pertaining to the current friendly  Amendment do you want to propose another friendly Amendment excuse me I think we okay so we're going  to speak to this motion and vice mayor Ballard   wants to speak to this friendly Amendment right  now no comment just a question for clarification   I do have a longer comment dependent on this  amendment but the friendly amendment is only an   amendment and not passing the ordinance with  that correct we could do it two ways I mean   it could be then the motion course us was to was  Council mayor substitute motion with the several   revisions the amendment to it my opinion if v  on it it V it it it would adopt the ordinance   with those items we we could do it separately  we've done it different we could just vote if   this is what the council wants to do just on  this time and not adopt the or that would give discussion so I guess I would see clarification  from council member hoisel is this amendment or   passing the ordinance with the amendment  just an amendment okay vice mayor Ballard   thank you mayor I'm a little concerned about  passing the ordinance and then sending it to   the homeless task force I feel like that's  kind of put in the cart before the horse   I like the idea of it going which they  actually meet tomorrow which I know is   a little too soon but um it's certainly not  something that I want to drag out forever   but I think it's important to um send it to  the homeless task force or something similar   to that before we vote on it otherwise I  feel like it's a little backwards for me quick question to city manager um so I think a  lot of the questions are regarding procedure of   moving forward I know that this is still not  going if it passes it still would not be um   in effect until next year um so are there still  opportunities for the um homelessness task force   to also provide feedback I guess to uh Parks  Public Works police regarding how to implement yes I think so especially if the desire is to move  people from encampment to shelter to housing that   that's whole strategy they could help us in terms  of making sure that what we do for enforcement of   the ordinance moves us in a way that I think  all of us want in terms of Effectiveness so we   can still have them have that feedback even if  it passes correct uh yes and they may come back   and say there are Provisions that make it hard  for us to implement and that would feed that' be   feedback they would provide the council again so  the answer is yes they will be sought for feedback   even if this passes today uh the homelessness task  force which uh vice mayor Ballard is on and so is   council member Johnston who are both on that  homelessness task force um and they meet again   tomorrow uh they would be able to still provide  feedback even if this passes today correct right   I just want to make sure that's the council's  intent I don't want to what if they say we can   make amendments right then why don't we just  delay it I think that again this is not going   to take effect now um there are no resources uh  the whole team is not gathered the individuals   have not been hired therefore it cannot happen  even if we wanted it right now correct right I I   I don't believe it's effective until January 13th  is that right that's correct it has to go through   second reading unless the council would make a  motion for emergency adoption which is not on the   agenda but that is um it it today's first reading  the next council meeting will be in January   that will be second reading and then there'll be  publication and during the second reading it is on   the consent agenda so if a council member pulled  that item for any further clarification that can   happen correct that's correct thank you very  much so it can still pass today with amendments   if there are any changes from the homelessness  task force during the January 7th meeting uh which   would be the second reading council member tutle  I I just want to clarify with legal if that's   okay because I I don't know if there's going to be  more comments but so we had a motion from council   member Glascock and got a second from mayor woo  and then we have a substitute motion and the   substitute motion that also got a second was to  strike the to add back the language that there has   to be shelter beds available in the community um  trying to remember everything citations are only   by law enforcement cleanups and notices can  be done by other departments and training for   these departments is in consultation with the  hot team okay and then council member H Heisel   is to add the two more things of taking at making  the fine go from it is now 500 propos $200 to $20   and then taking away jail is that correct  they're all bundled together is what I'm   understanding I think it's council member about I  think it's your intent just to vote on the amend   down to the $20 fine only at this time so  the mayor's substitute will not be included   in that correct or it is no at this time we're  just voting on Council hisle's motion I just   want to make completely sure that I understand  exactly what I'm doing and then I do want to make   a comment um the jail part is very hard for me  um I don't I I feel in my heart and and Reverend   Christina made the comment I don't know if she's  still here but that she felt like no none of us   want to put people in jail right and but Sharon  and Captain Moses made a comment that sometimes   for the most desperate who need the most help  and interventions such as a court intervention   a legal intervention that then would let them go  to um drug court or mental health court might be   the life-saving intervention that someone needs  so I just don't want to take away every option   until I know and that's why I'm interested  in the homelessness task force but for some   of the most um you know just vulnerable  and needy in our community they may need   that little extra intervention so that's  where I'm thinking about that one right now council member hoisel thank you  mayor um just I believe a point of   clarification uh the speaker who  was speaking on that was talking   more about probation violations uh that using  that to be able to get people into jail I know   I've spoken with um some of our hot team  officers who they'll do something similar   to that on really bad days or have in the past um  but I don't again one one instance to where we've   actually prosecuted somebody successfully um for  jail time over the last five years um I think that   I mean I I I think this is something that that  makes sense as far as extending public trust with   the community making sure that we let people know  we're not trying to criminalize homelessness if   you have jail time attached to that that's going  to be the message and as far as practicality goes   it's not doing anything really to help us out so  um yeah I just wanted to to bring that up and then   also so I have asked staff to look at establishing  a homeless Court um we're going through the   process now I believe the beginning of the year  we're going to have a a sitdown discussion to see   about the plausibility of something like that  as well so um I just want to let people know   that's in the works as well um trying to find an  effective way to get people into shelter because   I'm not sure that any of this will actually drive  people to seek help so um a specialized Court like   that might actually be a little more effective  as to trying to get people into the service as   we hope they go to council member John Sten thank  you mayor the only thing about making it $20 in no   jail you take away a tool from the court system  um we don't know what the in reality one person   in five years it's probably not going to happen so  why create a problem there's not a problem I would   say and let let the court have that tool  and I like your idea of a a homeless Court   that's a great idea um but I just don't want to  take away the tools uh available to the court system we have a we have an amendment motion and   an amendment second and I see no  further discussion so we will vote   on the amendment to reduce the fine to  $20 in no jail time n mam clerk please open just for clarity council member Glascock  were you yay or nay nay no motion fails 4- three   we're back on the substitute motion again uh as a  reminder it is revisions to the current proposed   ordinance change that would include um again  citations by law enforcement so not a specific   uh group but law enforcement uh and then changes  to the cleanups and notices by the other entities   listed in um our sheets and also making sure that  there is a shelter bed available in the community   um so those would be the two major changes to that  uh proposed ordinance now we have discussion uh   council member John uh Johnson thank you mayor um  I appreciate the Amendments and listening to some   of the concerns today I will be voting against um  this item both the substitute and if that doesn't   pass the original um have to be able to sleep at  night and while some people don't agree that this   is uh criminalized and homelessness I feel that  it provides too many penalties to people for not   being being able to be housed uh given all the  work that I've I've done around evictions and   seeing people be one paycheck away and become  unhoused some of the stories we've heard about   former shelters and treatment I just don't think  this is the right thing to do it's not something I   can support and and the Mac is not complete yet to  really have all the opportunities for as much help   as we want to provide the emergency shelter is  is wonderful and I'm not saying that it's not but   um we also haven't built trust within our inhouse  community to get folks to even come in there and   uh we heard today from some of those inhouse  people we've heard over the last several weeks   from some unhoused people who talked about their  concerns and I don't see that those have been met   so I can't uh with my faith in the God that I  serve and the Jesus that I know support this   without more trust in the community that we want  to help um without more people who have that lived   experience being a part of this I do think um  even some of the questions I asked earlier about   someone having a vehicle with permission from a  property owner their time is then limited there's   just too many things in this that continue to  trouble me and even with hearing today that   there may be some bad space but also hearing that  some folks don't even trust um not even um the hot   team which is amazing and nationally recognized  if they're not trusting of that the shelter or   other staff to come into that space then all we're  doing is making the problem worse in my opinion   so I will not be supporting it I do appreciate  the Amendments and trying to find a way to find   some compromise but I can't um in good conscious  support this today council member hoisel thank you   mayor um I I will not be supporting this um one  of the main reasons there's stuff in here that   I do like I do like us redoing our ordinance to  actually address um private property some camps   that go on private property because a lot of these  are in the middle of neighborhoods and that is a   safety issue so I do appreciate that I wish that  was a separate uh ordinance to vote on um the main   reason I don't want to I'm not supporting this  today is quite frankly we've made a commitment   over the last year to be uh more transparent to  actually speak with the public and the reason   for that and I've supported that every all the way  is because there might be suggestions there there   might be things that we don't see from up here  on the bench uh we have this homelessness task   force that we have not sent this to to get get  their recommendations on again they might find   things to make it stronger um also we have a lot  of processes we haven't even worked out yet we do   not know the standard operating procedure for um  Personnel items uh what that looks like it feels   like that we're kind of getting out ahead of our  skis here um time for data from from the Mac like   what what's going on is this working um time to  look at suggestions from the homelessness or the   homeless court if we choose to go down that  way and then also the main thing that I think   we haven't really explored here which is does  this work will this drive people to the Mac if   we don't have I mean we can have guest is all we  want from here um I appreciate some people this   is what my PE teacher did this is what my parent  did unfortunately up here we have to deal with   practicality as opposed to just generalizations  like that so if there's a person that it's not   going to help if forcing them forcing them to  go into something like this by cracking down   is not going to get them to the shelter what  are the Alternatives so that that needs to   be part of the discussion as well so I just wanted  to offer comments um again there's a lot in here   that I do like um but unless we actually go  through and take the time and then also this   would give us a month or two to actually see  again how the Mac is working are we running up   against um are we running up against Beds which I  know we took it out of this as well but so I I do   appreciate that and that is a good thing but  uh it just seems like we're just getting out   a little too ahead of ourselves here so um  thank you council member Johnston thank you   mayor this is a a very very difficult decision  for me I campaigned and knocked on 2,432 doors   and the number one issue was homelessness and  main thing was why are we not enforcing our   laws we already have that's what people want to  know why are we not enforcing the laws we have   on the other side of that I am a provider I lead  gual Lupe Clinic two free health care clinics   and we do serve the homeless um a lot of the uh  formally incarcerated people come to our clinic   for some reason and got know several of them nice  people they're working hard they're trying and and   they're making it making it so it's a very very  difficult uh decision for me also a member of the   task force which I've learned a lot over the last  two years years on task force I'm also on the uh   provider Committee of the task force um absolutely  a great meeting uh this month which actually was   November meeting but uh had a great meeting this  month and uh I I think it's really good tomorrow's   agenda the task force is already set probably  can't do anything about that especially if we get   done here at uh whatever time we're going to get  done um January are committee meetings they're not   the whole task force so the next meeting would be  the third week in February task force could meet   and I too like like councilman Johnson I I have  to sleep at night it really bothers me that 42   people died last year and it bothers me that the  police asked hundreds of people to go get shelter   on two of the coldest nights of the year only 50  took him up on it that bothers me I don't want   to see another 42 people die this year don't um I  think some people need a nudge to get in into the   Mac in into the shelter shelter now I'm not say  mac into the shelter now I think they need that   nudge and and that's that's why I'm going to  be supporting this like I say it's a difficult   decision um but I don't want to see people dying  and I want people to get the help that they need   even if they know they even if they don't know  they need it thank you council member Tuttle thank   you um I just want to thank staff all the staff  who worked on this all the staff who work on this   issue the homeless Outreach team Park and wreck  legal um I also want to thank everyone who's been   here today appreciate your time all the people  who've reached out to us um I I also want to   thank the homelessness providers I know humankind  was here open doors here Union Rescue Mission I'm   sure I'm forgetting some but in United Way um I  spoke with them last week and one of their biggest   concerns and I think the only concern was that  um we made sure that we cleaned up the part about   if there's shelter beds or not and so it looks  like that's going to be taken care of that was   the number one issue that I heard that resonated  with me um I certainly want an house to be treated   with care and compassion they absolutely deserve  it they're witchin and they're some of our most   vulnerable I just want to emphasize again this  isn't a new ordinance this isn't something that   we're developing today this is something that we  already have and we're amending it and in some   ways we're making it um even more we're taking  away some of the boundaries we're um you know   making it less punitive if you will for lack of a  better word so we're not creating a new ordinance   to criminalize homelessness we're amending a  an ordinance that hasn't been looked at I think   since 2013 that needs to be with the times that  we have now homelessness in 2013 versus now is a   completely different scenario in this community  um I absolutely and I want to go in record I   absolutely do not want to put people in jail and  I if that was the goal of this I would not be   supporting but in my past profession profession in  mental health and substance abuse counseling I do   think that homelessness is the crisis that's worth  intervention and that there are sometimes people   need help um all this does truly in essence and I  asked Sharon to give me the most basic definition   that I could you know talk to people about is it  shortens up the time frame to claim up camps and   that means hopefully we can get more people to  resources quicker I know right now we just have   the shelter we don't have the Mac but I've heard  from providers who said even in the shelter they   will provide resources and support So for me  as council member Johnston said this is a very   difficult vote um I the goal for me is to find the  balance to keep our most vulnerable safe but also   to keep our community safe and the goal is not  to be punitive but the goal is to push people to   shelter and services so I'm going to support this  today because I want people to get to the services   we are investing in we're spending real dollars  real taxpayer dollars for the shelter and for the   multi- agency Center and we need people to use  it thank you vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor um this is kind of an easy vote  for me um I think there needs to   be more work done on it to  be honest there's you know   like council member ho and Johnson said  there's things that I like about it um but the fact that we haven't sent this to um let  homeless task force or something like that to be   in a room full of providers to get some type of  feedback there's no way I feel comfortable passing   this now and then going and asking for feedback  afterwards and then it' get really messy trying   to amend stuff um so it's it's a little backwards  for me um I've worked really hard doing River   cleanups I know how important you know this is to  my district but um and to the community for that   for that matter um but I also have a really hard  time until the Mac is fully set up and operational   I have a really hard time putting more barriers  in in people's way and trying to push people to   the shelter that some are already terrified to  go to is is just not something that I can that   I can get behind um so you you know do I think  this is important absolutely um I just there's   just too many questions that I still have for it  so for that I will not be supporting it council   member hoisel thank you mayor um just one point  of clarification this is a vote for just item   one of the four ordinances right we're addressing  them separately or we'll be voting on The I made   a I made a motion for all of them and I think the  mayor substitute motion just amended that motion all of them okay yeah I just remember  I thought that when we talked about   it at Workshop we had um agreed that all the  ordinances will be broken up into four separate ordinances I just thought during Workshop  that we had asked and everybody agreed that   it would be broken up into four separate  ordinances right now this the recommended   language was for the ordinances  together except the will of council   but it wasn't will of council to have  him separate I don't know that I think the I couldn't hear what council  member glas my motion was for them be together I will just add a couple comments before  we vote um I want to say thank you to Amanda one   more time um I know that one of the key pieces of  this is having a shelter for women um and Amanda   does a great job with helping women who've been um  survivors of domestic violence um and I know that   there's not enough shelter space for women and so  when at the end of this uh past month in November   when there was um availability now for women to  have shelter that don't have to be survivors of   domestic violence um that really was uh one of the  key things that I wanted to share with Community   um because me many women don't know that um that  has been a hurdle and a barrier um and so and I   also appreciate Amanda for encouraging this  community to see that private dollars need to   come into play in helping with this multi-agency  Center so the city of witcha utilizing yes federal   dollars that could have gone into the general fund  to help offset the $22 million budget deficit we   have Instead This council's Will was to invest  invest in that upward stream problem as what   one of the speakers this morning said it's about  philanthropy not about charity and this has been   discussed in our community for years upon years  and even this Council has talked about this since   the beginning of this year so it is not a r or a  fast um conclusion that we come to this vote but   it is a signal to this community in asking those  private citizens uh businesses in our community to   help us make sure that this multi-agency Center is  successful I also ask our faith-based community to   also help us make sure that this is successful  the multi- agency Center is exactly that multi   it's it requires collaboration partnership all of  us working together and so this is again just one   piece to the puzzle the Mac is a piece this piece  about law enforcement is another piece but it's   with a reduction in finding the individuals who  are facing homelessness and it also allows uh for   individuals to really connect to those resources  um I said these comments uh yesterday but I think   they're worthy to one more time mention but  we cannot do the same things that we've been   doing over and over again and expecting different  results homelessness is growing in our community   and continuing to address it in the same manner  is the opposite of compassion it is not Humane to   allow homeless neighbors to live on the streets  out in the cold and potentially dying it's also   not safe sanitary or Equitable for the rest of  the community especially at a time when we have   beds available in a safe clean and potentially  life-saving environment a lot of time energy and   dollars have gone into the multi-agency navigation  Center including a significant public investment   8 million in the renovation of this building $5  million in the operations of this facility for   two years and $600,000 for just this Winters  emergency shelter voting against the camping   ordinance would not be compassionate or Equitable  and it would undermine the success of the multi-   agency's ability to really help our individuals  facing homelessness in Witchita we're not going to   overcrowd shelters so obviously enforcement will  need to match the capacity to enforce and I think   that that addresses the shelter bed capacity  and shelter bed availability in the community   so again I will be supporting this amendment um  because it will get us one more step closer to to   towards helping individuals in our community  launch into out of homelessness and into   fulfilling lives here in wichan council member  Johnson thanks mayor I just want to highlight for   myself that my vote against this is compassionate  um there's nothing in this ordinance or group of   ordinances that is going to make anyone go into  the emergency shelter or the Mac what it will do   is increase potential criminal penalties on those  individuals while I also don't want to see anyone   die on the street or not want to go into the Mac  nothing in this again will make them want to until   we can do the work to build trust with them to  provide opportunities and many of the individuals   we are talking about need to have their hand held  through some of this to understand what is offered   to to them resource-wise to understand how to  get into housing at some point to understand   the layout of everything we've even heard from  folks who talked about the mindset of someone who   might be unhoused that does not mean some Mental  Health Challenge all the time it could just mean   the stress and shock of being unhoused you don't  always think straight in situations like that so   um just for the record my vote is compassionate  I want to see what's best but I know that we have   a lot more work to do um going forward and I hope  and pray that we can do that work together but of   all the speakers that we heard from today and all  of the providers who work with these populations   I don't think I've heard of one provider that  was supportive of this as is and wanted to see   some more work being done so for me again my  compassionate vote is no Vice May mayor Ballard   thank you mayor uh just really quick I know you  usually keep track do you know how many people   spoke today four and do you know how many of them  were in favor of the encampment I also had a lot   of emails from individuals as talking about you  know how many of the speakers were in favor I   did not keep track of favor versus not favor  I think three of them were in favor of the 24 we have a motion and a second  any further discussion I see   none Madame clerk please open the rle I Mo there's one more vote Miss  motion passes 4 to three Madame   clerk please call the next item  we'll take a quick 10minute break again e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e break with us I appreciate staff staying as  well as some of our speakers we will resume   our city council meeting but I have  a motion I have a motion to move um   I move that agenda item number seven  on the 2024 budget adjustment be mov   move to the next item second motion and a second  any further discussion I see oh council member hoisel thank you mayor um I don't actually yeah  do we have all staff here that's ready for that presentation board staff isn't here  okay yeah we I mean we might need   the rest of staff to show up before we can move it the next item won't take very long to take it up  okay so we have a motion in a second but we don't   have enough uh we don't have the staff member to  present the item so we'll have to wait until the   next one would would you accept a friendly Mo  friendly amendment to move it to option or to   item four I will accept that motion okay second  and a second uh Madam clerk please open the rooll I motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call the  next item amendments to section 11424 regarding   failure to comply with the traffic citation good  evening Sharon dickr City Law Department I'm here   to present some amendments today to the city's  ordinances regarding uh failure to comply with   traffic citations um during the last legislative  session the Kanas legislature passed Senate Bill   500 which amended a number of ordinances including  um amendments uh for State statutes dealing with   individuals who failed to comply with traffic  citations these amendments are necessary to   bring the ordinances into compliance with state  law um the analysis make a number of amendments   um regarding what constitutes failure to  comply with the traffic citation uh the   amendments um allow the court to determine what  is substantial compliance with the citation   previously the state statute and city ordinances  required that all fines and court costs be paid   prior to a traffic citation being completed um it  limits the reinstatement fees to a single $100 fee   with the Department of Revenue um previously it  was $100 per charge um so if I had three traffic   infractions on a one complaint I paid $300 that  will now be reduced to $100 um it also allows a   person who has assessed fines and court costs um  to ask the courts to wave those fines in court   costs requires the court to make forms available  for those folks who want those fines reduced um it   also excludes certain violations not pertaining to  operation of a motor vehicle from those violations   um if you have a failure to comply you end up  getting your license suspended um these changes   will exclude certain violations pedestrian  violations littering violations um other types   of violations which are not really dependent on a  motor vehicle um there is a section of ordinances   and state statutes that allowed for that prior  suspension um this allows a person that if I am   suspended for a bike light ticket for example  um to ask the courts to remove that suspension   it also prohibits the court for consider from  considering any convictions older than 5 years um   to determine suspension or restriction of licenses  and it's recommended that you place the ordinances   on first reading questions for staff beginning  with council member Johnson thanks mayor just   one really quick question um definitely supportive  of this will this also be shared if passed in the   warp program as another one of those opportunities  yes thank you council member hoisel thank you   mayor uh Sharon were there any any other concerns  I know some state legislators have reached out and   County Commissioners as well with some concerns  are there any other concerns that we might need   to take a look at uh this was the house bill that  um representative Howell talked about wanting to   make sure that we had passed the state statute  doesn't go in effect until January 1st so this   is timely um we do have the warp program we do  have the Senate Bill 262 the one that was passed   a couple years ago um all of those Provisions  regarding getting your license reinstated   working with the warp program um getting fins and  court costs remitted or um removed all of those   are in effect in municipal court and I think are  running fairly well okay thank you appreciate it   thank you Sharon I see no more questions from for  staff we will now open it up for public comment hi Faith Martin Vice chair of the racial  profiling Advisory Board here in witchta uh   our board has uh lobbied heavily at the state  level um to get sb127 and sb500 P we are very   much in support of the city uh putting these  things into place um big shout out to Nathan   Emery and his team and the warp office for um  helping citizens get into a restricted status um   and be able to make payments do the hardship  applications this is a huge win for Witchita since   SED County in Witchita were some of the highest  uh suspended and restricted or suspended and uh   not restricted but uh when you get your driver's  license taken away forever um thank you um we were   some of the highest numbers here in sck county and  so we lobbied really hard and a big thank you to   Senator otha Faldo and uh councilman Bron Johnson  for always being so supportive of these bills and   now that it's passed we appreciate the city's  support in passing this today thank you thank   you Faith any further public comment I see none  we'll bring it back to the bench council member   Johnson was pivotal in this council member Johnson  thanks mayor actually I give all credit to our our   staff I just push yay and nay sometimes um I would  move that the city council place the ordinance on   first reading and authorize the necessary  signatures second motion and a second any   further discussion I see none Madame clerk please  open the role I motion passes 70 with that we will   move to agenda item number seven um Madam clerk  can you call that item 2024 budget adjustment well good evening mayor council Nathan Emory Court  Administrator for the record this is a uh budget   adjustment uh in the background uh in stems from  work with the CCR in 2017 a study identified uh   the establishment of a family Justice Center  as a priority uh through a domestic violence   study a family Justice Center provides a  One-Stop location where victims can access   critical services including law enforcement  legal assistance advocacy support all Under   One Roof uh the method uh that many have used is  to uh utilize Alliance for hopes Family Justice   Center Alliance uh and that uses best practices  to provide immediate and holistic long-term   support of victims of Domestic and Sexual Violence  CCR members have visited the fjc models in San   Diego Tulsa Oklahoma City and each partnered  with the alliance for hope uh a leader in Family   Justice Center development so Alliance For Hope  offers uh a study tour and strategic planning   process to help facilitate uh the development  of fjcs and a community essentially consulting   services and uh this uh strategy or Alliance for  hope asserts that fjcs have the lowest homicide   rate of any intervention strategies so this for  our community Builds on proven collaboration   with the Child Advocacy Center model uh and this  initiative uh see aims to expand the resources to   all victims uh to mitigate obstacles to safely  support safety support and healing so what this   is is this isn't a a a item to to actually put  any of these things in place uh it's simply a   carve out we've identified funds uh that could be  used out of the Municipal Court budget uh to cash   fund a project next year so um it would uh fund  a Consulting contract with Alliance For Hope and   project management uh potentially should  you approve whatever gets brought next   year so uh it it uh is a budget adjustment  reallocating $13,000 from uh the Municipal   Court contractuals uh to establish a cash funded  project and the project would be implemented in 2025 Financial considerations the Municipal Court  budget includes the funding for this contract in   2024 or however due to delays in finalizing  procurement it's not possible to encumber   the funds prior to year end to preserve this  funding this 2024 funding for this contract the   staff recommends that the transfer of 113,000  from savings within the 2024 Municipal Court   budget uh to a project account be approved there  are no legal considerations and the recommended   action is to approve the budget adjustment and the  establishment of a project account I'll stand for   any questions questions for Dr Emory want to just  congratulate you also on your doctorate uh last   week council member Johnson I am so disappointed  I wasn't the first person to say that and I was   going to say thank you Dr Emory but the mayor beat  me to it but congratulations again thank you and   I'm supportive of this council member hoisel thank  you mayor uh he is giving out free dissertation   to anybody who wants to read it um I actually  have it at home I plan on doing some holiday   reading of it so again congratulations and thank  you for all you do not only for our city but for   our country thank you um so we're moving this to  next year's budget um just we we're not able to   get it out in time essentially this year that's  correct the opportunity presented itself uh and   then we started looking for funds the time  really wasn't there to put together together   the the the package for you all to approve so  we'll be looking to do that uh next year okay   and just double check and I know you guys are  sure on this um no arpa funding was used for   this right no okay none all right just again  triple checking thank you council member Tuttle   thank you I also was going to say congratulations  and I'm sorry you beat me to it but much deserved   and then council member Johnson was trying to  figure out how we can make this meeting go to   midnight could you read us your dissertation  you know I I don't think it we'd quite get   there congratulations thank you for all you doing  especially on this item and I will be supportive   thank you very much I see no further questions  for Dr emry we will now open it up for public comment good evening mayor and members of the  city council my name is Carrie McGregor and I have   served as a program director at Catholic Char's  Harbor House for nearly a decade for those who are   unfamiliar Harbor House is one of the two domestic  violence crisis programs within the witw community   however today I stand before you as one of the  members of our witchta SED County coordinated and   Community response team a multi-disciplinary  team of dedicated professionals that include   law enforcement advocacy prosecution probation  and medical agencies who in 2013 established a   formal comprehensive collaborative and Survivor  victim centered response to address the needs of   the most vulnerable within the witch Community  many of those members are with us here today in   the next few minutes I hope to paint a picture of  the growing epidemic that is Domestic and Sexual   Violence what we as systems and service providers  have done so far and what we need from the city to   continue our efforts providing victim Services  is a public safety issue Domestic and Sexual   Violence is a community problem that does require  a community solution 6,292 is the number of calls   that Harbor House alone took this past year  from survivors Community Partners friends and   loved ones all seeking safety and support from  these violent crimes due to the rising numbers   and increased homicide rates directly related  to domestic violence many members of our CCR   volunteered our time to complete a community and  safety assessment that was published in 2018 over   the course of a year and a half we worked to  identify how our community and Criminal Justice   System respond to risk and safety for victims of  Domestic and Sexual Violence within one week of   disclosure it was designed to reveal how laws  policies forms standard operating procedures   and other influences May create obstacles or gaps  in effectively responding to Domestic and Sexual   Violence the assessment's focus was solely on  discovering and articulating problems so that   we could better identify Solutions in hopes of  improving not only victim safety but offender   accountability since the completion of the study  our CCR has worked collaboratively to address and   attempt to close those gaps which we identified  those included inadequate Staffing shelter space   and Facilities training processes streamlining of  service provision across agencies and effective   screening tools and efficient responses while  many efforts have been made we are not done   and we desperately need the support from the  city to continue our efforts and creating a   safer Community for all of us and while I greatly  appreciate the support that the city has shown   for the homeless Community I strongly believe that  victims of these violent crimes need your support   and commitment too we hear the phrase often out  of sight and out of mind you won't visually see   victims of domestic or sexual violence sleeping  on the street corner but I can assure you that   they are suffering in silence and fear within  their very own home we are requesting your your   support to reserve and allocate this money from  this year's budget to be utilized in 2025 so   that we can finally begin the strategic planning  process for the creation of our very first family   Justice dinner in the state of Kansas many of us  have traveled across the United States touring   and researching existing fjcs we've attended  trainings conferences and collaborating towards   obtaining funding to get this process started  we have created a very strong relationship   with the alliance for Hope who is a social change  organization that provides services and programs   for survivors of violence n fjc would provide  a centralized and multi-disciplinary approach   bringing together various services including  legal law enforcement advocacy and medical   all Under One Roof allowing victims to access  comprehensive support without having to navigate   through multiple agencies which ultimately will  lead to increased safety and empowerment for   victims and survivors while also reducing the  homicide rates and increasing Community Support   which Boost service efficiency based on the the  United States Department of Justice San Diego's   fjc reports a reduction of nearly 90 5% in the  homic decreased homicide rate in the last 13   years New York is reporting a decline of 51%  Oklahoma by 40 this is a model that has been   proven to work this is not an idea that developed  overnight our CCR has spent years and countless   hours doing research building relationships and  identifying best practices to get this process   started and we very strongly believe that this is  the necessary Next Step working in victim Services   we often are asked the questions why don't they  just leave why don't they report and why aren't   they cooperating well if we want victims and  survivors to come forward and access Services   it's Paramount that we create a safy a safety net  that catches them when they do thank you thank   you Carrie council member ho high school thank  you mayor uh just one quick question Carri yes   um sorry no problem um I I realize county has a  hand in the Child Advocacy Center um what are and   this might also be for Nathan or whoever else um  what are some of the roles that other governments   outside of the city city will play in this County  and state well that's that's what we are hoping to   establish through this strategic planning process  is where are these funding streams coming from   who are the other stakeholders and the CAC  has been a very active partner and is also   currently serving on this uh CCR to help us kind  of navigate and kind of um help answer some of   those questions okay so this is just City money  that's going into this yes okay yes thank you Casey Yingling from City legal I am your um  representative from the city law prosecutor's   office on the CCR and I had the opportunity to  go visit a family Justice Center in Oklahoma City   this year and what was so intriguing to me about  it is how we align with what we're doing with the   cic and the exploited missing children's  unit with what this family Justice Center   is so Witch is very unique that we already have  something very similar to this in our community   that's been very successful since the 90s what  that deals with is only child victims what this   study would do is look at our community and see  what our next Readiness steps are for us to start   embracing adult victims of these same crimes so  we're actually in a very unique position because   of our collaboration with CAC and the sheriff's  department and DCF and which top Police Department   all being under one roof which is as you know very  rare for governments to work together like that   yeah um okay so we're that we'll be looking at  County contributions possibly State and then also   what grants and federal funds are out there this  well absolutely and what the Family Justice Center   offers that I think the alliance for Hope overall  National Group getting them involved really helps   because they are there to be a partner to help  you find the kind of federal grants that fund   this there's 69 Affiliated Family Justice  centers across the country and they are all   utilizing the same I guess mentorship to find  what best practices are and then how to fund   yourselves using yes government Partners but also  Capital campaigns federal grants how to leverage   all of our resources together to make efficient  and effective resources for our victims thank you Hi Amanda Myers with the wi family crisis  center again um and to um before I jump into   what I wanted to say I just wanted to comment  on um the funding issue um most of you know uh   we were in a very small shelter um around 2020  and um by you know the generosity of the count   of the city um we received $1.2 million in sort  of like covid arpa funds we leveraged that to   $8 million um so I am not a big I am a fan of  you of leveraging money as I mentioned before   I am I that I think is you know what I think is  really important to do with this kind of seed   money and and that is what we talk about on the  CCR is going to the county going to the state but   also like private investment is what you know it's  worked really well with the c the CAC and I think   is really important to get our community involved  in this isue also increases Community awareness so   I wanted to speak to that right away and say that  we have a track record with regards to this um and   then just as as an example um so you know Carrie  gave you a little background um and kind of what   fjc is just as an example I mean not only does  it decrease homicides and it you know um we are   one of the only big cities that doesn't have one  but we will be the first city in Kansas to have   one which I think is incredible and impressive  and obviously underscores um what witch talk   can do but um we had a client I was looking at  this yesterday we had a client in our shelter   and I won't get into too many details because we  have to maintain confidentiality but she had two   little kids and so she you know now she's been  in our shelter for up to six weeks because every   that she needed to do to get to the next step of  moving on was it takes days right it takes weeks   so you know she has to make a doctor's appointment  she has to make an appointment with the forensic   nurse she has to um make an appointment to visit  with the prosecutor she has to work on child care   she has to you make an appointment with Goodwill  for example because she's looking at um employment   all of those are housed in one space in an fjc  and the kind of work that takes us six weeks to   do with a client can get done in a matter of days  what that does is open up more bed space which is   my like will be etched on my Tombstone how can  I get more beted space for domestic violence   victims so um that kind of is you know I'll stand  for any questions but that was what I I just want   to wanted to exemplify in real life the power of  an fjc and just kind of emphasize that um you know   funding is a big issue for me and raising funds um  outside of just going back to the same source is   kind of you know again one of my missions in life  so that's all I have thank you vice mayor Ballard   thank you mayor Amanda and Carrie thank you guys  so much for coming to Advocate uh you know we talk   about mental health and homelessness all day every  day it's something that touches all of our work um   but oftentimes domestic violence is a part of that  conversation too so I'm really happy to um support   the funding that you guys need to move to the  next step not just for wit and sedra County but   for the state too so thank you both I have just  one follow-up question I wanted to know has there   been support at the state level and if so where  is that state support so we've had conversations   um with Senator wear and Senator Altha fudo  um and these are conversations that we're   having through our Statewide Coalition just as  a community service provider but again the CCR   is made up of law enforcement you know that we  have members from the DA's office um Sheriff's   Office WPD both you know Ascension and V whatever  they are I don't know Wesley St Francis whatever   they are now now um Pearl probation so I don't  want to speak for them so I don't know if anyone   else I don't want to wants to speak to the state  level no that's what I got for you um so these are   conversations that we have on the state level  with regards to our Statewide Coalition and   then each partner has on their own does that help  okay thank you Amanda we'll continue with public comment I see none oh we see one individual so I'm Lieutenant doer with witto Police  Department I Am The Watch Commander over   our domestic violence and sex crimes here  for the [ __ ] police department and they   have really touched on a lot of the things  um a couple things that I will talk about is   the um fact that we've seen this work with our  exploited missing children's unit with the CAC   so it's a model that's already out there and  we see that it works um she has talked about   kind of like freeing up the bed space portion  I'm going to talk about offender accountability   this is a way for us if we have that all in  one building that's an opportunity for us to   keep that Survivor engaged in the system get them  in in regards to uh wanting to pursue charges not   all of them is that the the case sometimes they  need those other services more than they need   for prosecution but a lot of times we see after a  few days then we sto getting the cooperation from   some of these survivors and so this is a a great  way for us to keep that engagement with those   survivors and getting them that help and and also  fulfilling some of that Gap that she was talking   about which was that offender accountability and  I stand for any questions if you haven't and our   our department is on on board and is supportive  of it thank you thank you lieutenant doer do we   have any additional speakers who would like to  comment I see none I'm going to bring it back   to the bench and close public comment I again  I'm grateful that you all stayed till right now   it's almost 5:30 I appreciate um the advocacy for  survivors of domestic violence and how this plays   into the bigger um conversation we've had all  day regarding homelessness and shelter bed space   um and I know that you guys are both um  organizations part of that solution and   again we want to say thank you um we want to  make sure that there's always a bet available   for someone that needs that help and I know that  you do that um work here in our community so I   will move uh to approve the budget adjustment  and the establishment of a project account second   motion and a second any further discussion  I see none Madame clerk please open the role I motion passes 70 Madame clerk please  call the next item 2025 insurance program good morning good morning  mayor or good even afternoon evening   sorry good evening mayor members  of the city council Mark Manning   with the Department of Finance uh today I  want to present to you our 2005 insurance program so I'm going to give a really high level  overview on how we procure our insurance and I'll   highlight some of the larger coverages that we  have I'll point out the Agenda Report lists all   all our coverages in more detail and that  information is also available in our annual   audit which is available online so I won't go over  everything today we and finance are responsible   for our annual renewal process we do that to  mitigate risk to the city uh city code 2.64   authorizes the purchasing manager to negotiate the  purchase of that subject to your ratifications so   that's why I'm here today so the process for uh  procuring our insurance each year is actually a   very lengthy process we typically start in about  the summertime we visit with our departments we   identify risks uh we coordinate coverage needs  with them uh then we been begin the process of   preparing packages for our Underwriters through  our Brokers uh that involves a fairly exhaustive   list of details uh we prepare questioners  cyber insurance for example is probably by   far the most challenging we prepare about a 20page  questionnaire identifying risks so that we can be   appropriately underwrites uh then we finish that  around Labor Day we provide all that to our broker   our broker is used to interface with the insurance  carriers because they have expertise in that area   they Market our insurance needs they come back  to us about Thanksgiving uh with quotes and then   we up until the very last minute evaluate those  quotes and try to get better quotes in some cases   uh so with that I would tell you there's one item  in the agenda report that is mostly a relevant out   of date and that's the Cyber discussion in the  agenda report and that's because we literally   got a better quote over the weekend uh which  I'll highlight here in just a couple minutes   and I've used the pronoun we I really should say  she hether St Pierre there she is uh our risk   manager is actually the one that does everything I  just described uh so that's the process to procure   our coverage each year the good news this year  most of our coverages remained uh relatively flat   with our uh rates our insurance rates not all but  most of them were you know some cases one or two%   increases um let me highlight the bigger ones we  do ensure our excess liability uh coverage for   work comp CL or I'm sorry our excess work comp  uh Insurance that's for work comp claims that   are very extensive we want to protect ourselves  in the event that we have any of those uh that   coverage was renewed at a flat renewal rate uh  we also have our cyber coverage I'll talk about   that briefly again you can ignore what's on the  the slide here uh we actually uh can place cyber   insurance for pretty much exactly the same cost  that we spent last year uh that's a lot better   than what we thought we were initially going to  have and even better than that the coverage that   we thought we could initially procure included  some co- inssurance requirements we weren't really   excited about but we found a a carrier that will  not Implement co- insurance requirements on this   and in fact they will reduce our retention to  100,000 so we came out very good this year on   Cyber insurance and again I think that's probably  due to the diligence of our broker and our ability   to continue shopping around until we found an  attractive uh attractive carrier uh talk about   Federal excess liability real quick of course  Kansas tort claims act protects Us in Kansas   but we don't have that same protection out of  state or in federal lawsuits we purchase coverage   for that uh same $2 million retention 1010  million coverage uh we use a strategy to layer   our coverages that helps the insurance carrier  provide us a lower price because they can spread   risk among themselves so we'll have two carriers  in G in the GL space our premium will be about   685,000 that's a little bit higher than what we  spent last year I think we were at about 660 last   year if my memory is correct last one I'll talk  about is property insurance we have a property   portfolio that exceeds about $1.1 billion doll  in insurable value uh we have a $350 million loss   limit on that and uh again we spread that coverage  through several carriers we layer it again that's   most Advantage most financially advantageous  to the city and also to our carriers uh so our   our rate increased 1% which is pretty good on the  property side again we will spend over $3 million   on this coverage because we have a lot of assets  to ensure but our actual rate increased about   1% uh with that uh that's the highlights of our  program I'd be happy to answer any questions or   go into any further detail on anything thing that  you have any questions about but we' asked you to   ratify the program as staff have procured it and  to authorize us to make any final modifications   sometimes we literally change stuff until December  31st not often and usually minor things but it   is a dynamic market and sometimes we have to do  things like that so that's end of my presentation   if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer  thank you Mark um I did submit questions to you uh   or to the manager uh regarding this topic and you  already addressed the Cyber Insurance since our   sheet actually showed an increase it now is flat  um but I did have a follow-up question so that we   can close out this year yeah uh that question is  in in regards to the Cyber incident that happened   in May I just wanted to know if that affected  rates and how much was EST was the estimated cost   of the incident in May yeah like I say we disclose  everything to the market so I have no doubt that   some of the carriers were probably concerned about  our potential risk risk profile based on the event   that occurred uh but obviously we were able to  find a carrier that was willing to accept that   risk at a flat premium which is really good uh  I'm sorry mayor I might have forgot the rest of   your question I got oh the cost uh yes ma'am uh  we submitted a claim with our carrier last year   uh with a a claim of $1.1 million and that wasn't  all expenditures we also submitted a lost Revenue   uh claim but we feel that the event have costed  somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.1 million uh   the carrier is currently evaluating that through  their adjuster process so we haven't had word yet   on what our recovery will be uh but 1.1 million  is the recovery that we are seeking so you again   Mark and this consideration again is for all  Insurance um to protect all assets that the   city of wiah has and it's roughly $3 million is  that correct that's just the property piece is   3 million there's a few others that are sizable  uh it's probably closer to four million or so if   you aggregate everything so $4 million to cover  all of these Insurance uh policies yes ma'am to   mitigate risk to the city thank you for mitigating  the risk to the city um I see no further questions   for staff we'll open it up for public comment  I see no one from the public we'll bring it   back to the bench I will motion or I will move  to receive file and ratify the 2025 insurance   program and authorize staff to make any necessary  final modifications of coverage details to secure   coverage second motion and a second any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the role motion passes 60 Madame clerk please call the next  item assistance to Firefighters grant program good evening mayor City Council Members  all Chief Tammy snow here this evening to ask   for your approval of the assistant to firefighter  uh grant program and uh if we're fortunate enough   to receive that um not only your approval  but our acceptance of it um the assistance   to firefighter Grant it's a direct Finance Grant  um for elig to eligible fire departments um the   goal is to allow us to um U enhance the safety  of firefighters and also civilians to that Grant   uh the priorities this year and they change  each year but the priorities this year they   listed as training facility equipment Wellness  finance and personal Pro uh personal protective   equipment this year they plan on and when I  say they I'm talking about FEMA they plan on   uh releasing 20 $291 million will be available in  the funding um they plan to have uh approximately   2,000 Awards to be granted in 2025 it's a  2-year uh period of performance and uh due to   the population of city of witto which is right  around 400,000 our match would be a 10% local match what our challenges are is  that we currently have some Frontline   um radios that are nearing the end of their  service life um and a lot of it's due uh   primarily because the radios that we had in  a reserve when we received a safer Grant we   took them out of reserve and utilized those for  the safer Grant Personnel so uh it reduced our   emergency stock so the total funds that  we'd be asking for is the replacement   of 70 radios and it'd be $1 million 1 million  56,000 $137 our match to that would be 10% of $5,610 523 um it would replace our portable radios there  our administrative radios and also our emergency   radios that are that are um that are um at the end  of their service life um it would also replenish   our emergency stock and um if we were fortunate  enough to be awarded the grant it would reduce   a financial commitment that we currently have in  the 2025 CIP for 2.55 [Music] million U what I'm   asking for today is to authorize to apply for  the grant the deadline for the grant is Friday   at the end of business um December the 20th and um  then if like I said if we were fortunate fortunate   enough to receive the grant um to also accept it  at that time and I'll stand for questions thank   you Chief council member hoisel thank you mayor um  Chief um are these uh radios that we're applying   for here are they able to reach in the middle of  the buildings that have uh been grandfathered in   with the uh the radio relay signals what we have  is we purchased um a couple years ago when we when   we uh um right after we got our filcom unit uh we  uh also purchase radio boosters we have a supply   of those that are carried on each one of our  Command Vehicles we also have a supply of those   that are carried into our philcom unit so at any  incident we can set those up and it will allow   us to have radio communications okay thank you  council member Tuttle thank you thank you chief   for your presentation and for all your work um if  you stated this I'm sorry it's been a long day um   you're this is to apply to the grant we haven't  applied correct cor no we have not the deadline   is this coming Friday okay that's what I thought  and I heard this coming Friday but I just wanted   to confirm if we don't receive this funding then  what will we do to purchase the the radios and the   equipment we have $2.55 million allocated right  now our our radios um what we did was we phased   them because they're very expensive and so we have  2.55 million doll set aside in CIP P for 2025 that   will allocate um of that $2.55 million is um to  purchase um these administrative radios that I'm   asking for today and also mobile radios that are  going out of life um the reason why we can't ask   for the entire 2.55 million which would have been  ideal we're on they only give us five weeks um   from the time they release the grant till the time  that we apply for the grant so I have five weeks   to try to secure funding cost for those radios  the only one I could secure um definite funding   cost was for was for the portable radios the 70  and so because of the short time constraints um   I'm only applying for the a little over a million  dollars a little over a million right yeah you   know great job and thank you for all you do  much appreciated and good luck thanks I see   no further questions for staff we will open it up  for public comment I see no one from the public we   will bring it back to the bench um this again  is for equipment and it has a higher priority   according to FEMA um and the likelihood um that  witcha can get one of these grants has not been   high but this now matches with the priorities with  what FEMA is asking for which is again equipment   um that's life saving so again I'm very supportive  of this as this also helps offset some of that CIP   um so I will move uh to approve the application  and acceptance for the fiscal year 2024 afg   program equipment overview and approve any  necessary budget adjustments second motion   and a second any further discussion I  see none Madame clerk please open the role motion passes 60 Madame  clerk please call the next item Park and Recreation uniform vendor selection good evening mayor and Council all  right Rie Davidson with parks and wre here   before you today to talk about the parks and  wreck uniform vendor selection a little bit   of background in April 2023 Department of parks  and rec join the existing uniform contract with   the Department of Public Works and utilities on  October the 31st the contract with public works   and utilities expired and prior to October  uh Park staff looked at options to look at a   separate contract that they provide the services  for our department that gave us a little bit more flexibility a request for proposal was uh  solicited and on August the 30th uh proposals   were due and on September the 24th a selection  committee uh proposed for two vendors and   conducted interviews for those uh following the  interviews uh centes was selected as a preferred   vendor for the overall body of their work the  presentation the cost as well as the references   that they provided so talk a little bit about  why uniforms are valuable field workers fall   under the American National Standard Institute  requirement for class three high visibility uh   apparel due to working near roadways and barriers  between employees and the road uh this uh this uh   class three offers the highest visibility level  and makes it most uh safe for uniforms for our   staff that was working out in the field we also  uh had challenges with uh when we previously uh   equipment that we had had certain equipment that  we used for the wood chippers and things of that   nature that weren't fit properly and cause other  safety issues for us also the concern with hygiene   uh with using some of those items and also being  uh sold and not being used on a regular basis by   our staff because they were being shared by other  team members as well as uh being able to have   those reflected PPE equipment that works well  and not have to use it through our Commodities budget so why uniforms are a valuable for us  so parking work field workers uh and Transit   employees all have uniforms now uh as part of  our morale with our department it also is our   team members we're spending time and energy and  resource to improve our working environment it   also creates an environment for our to be  able to better utilize our branding for us   in the community and part of what we wanted to  do as well is make it easy identified for our   citizens to know that your city employees and  what they have and I think that's going to be   vital as we look into transition we're doing more  work with the homeless encampments and things   of that nature that they'll be easily identified  when they're working in those type of project as well so a little bit more about it uh as you  all may be aware that uh the commission of   accreditation of parks and recre agency cpra  has a standard for and we're one of the 200   agencies that are accredited across the country  and it uh provides a high Lev service for us   and part of that is making sure that we have  equipment that's uh that works well for and   appropriate for the function that we provide also  gives us equipment for employees perform their   their functions in a that vitable for benefit  for the community and the maintenance person   also have uh the cleanliness and attractive  for the parks and being able to represent the   city well and further uh show our branding in  the community also and and the other piece of   it is the risk management and making sure that we  fall in Aline with those accreditation process as   well as adhering to some our safety concerns with  staff being identified with appropriate equipment   and uniforms so the financial consideration  that goes along with this uh a contract has   been prepared for centes on an onal basis for  uniform purchases for up to $199,700 and the   funding is included in the current adopted  budget uh in 2024 uh we expended $140,800   uniforms and uh this uh was including aairs and  expend for did not include the apparance expend   for our pools and summer camps and rec centers  that was handled differently through the budgets   for those particular line items the actual  uh expenditure depends on our staffing levels   which may fluctuate during the year and also the  type of items that we actually order and then Tak   in consideration some slight increases that may  take place due to inflation uh staff anticipated   spending about $140,000 again in 2025 and through  our effort we're going through this uh contract   process and being able to go to a wholesale vendor  anticipating that we're saving about $330,000 and   cost savings were going with the vendor to  provide this service instead of going to the market uh the law department has  reviewed reviewed and approved the   contract as to form and it is recommended  that the city council approve the vendor   selection approve the contract and  authorize the necessary signatures   and we'll stand for any questions questions  for Reggie our screens are still showing the vote if any council member would like to ask  a question just go ahead since our boards are   not working I see none Reggie thank you very  much I see no questions for you thank you I   want to a knowledge our team know was here  that's also helped and supported did a lot   of work behind the scene to make sure that we  got the best pricing available for to have those   uniforms for our team thank you very much and  I just wanted to make mention um that the city   of witas Park and wre is one of the accredited  uh organizations so I'm sure that that holds a   very high standard and I appreciate uh the staff  for doing that and making sure that uh we are an   exemplary uh Department so thank you very much  I see no further questions and I will open it   up for public comment and I see no none so I'll  bring it back to the bench and I will um I don't   have the screen but I'll go ahead and motion um I  move to approve the vendor selection approve the   contract and authorize the necessary signatures  second motion and a second any further discussion   I see none uh we'll do a a vote by voice uh  all those in favor say I I all those oppose   same sign motion passes 60 thank you Madame clerk  please call the next item rad wiet senior project amendments good evening honorable mayor members of  council Sally Stang with the Housing and Community   services department for the record the item  that I have for you today is the uh rad senior   project amendments this is an extraordinarily  complex project and so I'm going to go back and   do a little bit of background on this because  there are several members of the council um   who haven't seen anything on this that's been  going so the rental assistance demonstration   is a pilot program from from the Department  of Housing and Urban Development that allows   housing authorities to convert its public  housing properties from public hous in to   Project based Section 8 contracts and the primary  benefit of that is it allows those projects to um   acquire or leverage other resources to complete  uh Renovations on properties because the public   housing program has been underfunded for more than  40 years leaving lots of capital needs so under   public housing HUD provides operating subsidy  households pay 30% of their monthly adjusted   income for rent um that annual funding is based  on on Congressional Appropriations I've seen it   as low as 60% of needs year after year uh never  any higher than 90% of what is needed um and it   is often not finalized until nine months into the  program year so that's very very challenging uh   HUD stopped funding public housing prop projects  in 1992 shifting to a Section 8 contract usually   typically with um private owners and project-based  Section 8 properties can be used those properties   can be used for the collateral for the needed  improvements so our particular project February   2017 the Witchita Housing Authority board approved  the rad application none of you were on the on   the council at that time and I was not here  so this goes back quite a ways um October of   17 we had approved that application we hired  a rad consultant put out an RFP and selected   kbk enterprisers as our co-developer partner in  December 18 we submitted tax credit applications   for 4% low-income housing tax credits at that time  we had Bank of America uh had indicated they were   going to purchase those tax credits uh the tax  exemp Bond volume cap and um we also applied for   the 1 million in housing trust funds from khrc  took till February 2019 for the tax credits to   be awarded uh April of 19 the bond volume cap was  awarded and in June June of 19 the housing trust   funds of 500,000 were awarded but in June of 19  Bank of America withdrew their letter of intent so   from June of 2019 to October of 2019 the rad team  approached multiple investors and then HUD made a   change in uh on September 4th 2019 HUD issued  a new incentive that allowed the rents to be   raised which allowed us to attract a new investor  partner and in October of 2019 we actually got   uh affordable housing Partners Burkshire hathway  as the equity investor to allow the project to   move forward we also then received a conditional  commitment from orex lumit in order to receive a   HUD uh 221 D4 loan to fill the Gap and in March  of 20120 environmental review Capital needs   assessment work began but then it was halted due  to covid-19 July of 2020 the CNA work continued   and then from July of 2020 to October of 21  we were very busy finalizing environmental   assessments Capital needs assessments we secured a  general contractor completed all of Hud financing   relocation of affera of fair housing marketing  plans procured Property Management completed   all of the FHA and rad reviews and prepared almost  20,000 pages in legal documents to get to closing   in October 2021 the total project was nearly 36  is nearly $36 million um I've listed out here   the capital stack um and it en encompassed all  four senior projects which is um 90 units at   mlan Manor 86 at Greenway Manor 32 at Rosa Greg  and 18 at Bernice Hutcherson the use of the 4%   low-income housing tax credits this is where  it gets complicated required the creation of   two new legal entities so Witchita rad senior  LP is the limited partnership and leas holding   entity comprised of the de invest partner and the  general partner the second entity is witcha rad   amp1 LLC which is the general partnership which  is comprised of KBB Enterprises and the City of   Witchita at this time so we as partnership are  the ones who operate the project so there's just   a a diagram of that ownership structure again  always very complicated once the project reaches   stabilization though our our developer partner  kbk Enterprises will withdraw from The General   partnership and we will need to find a nonprofit  to replace them because you can't have a   partnership of one one entity um and stabilization  occurs when All Phases of construction are   complete all the units are occupied and the IRS  8609 tax credit allocation and certifications are   issued that generally happens three to four  months after um the construction is complete   khrc and uh affordable housing Partners require  that the property be managed by an entity with at   least five years of low-income housing tax credit  management experience and the city did not have   that did not meet that requirement and so through  a a competitive RFP menet housing was selected   to be the property manager for all properties  closing occurred in October of 21 construction   on rosr duplexes was completed in phases because  they're duplexes building by building completion   of those buildings happened between June of 22  and uh March of 23 Bernice huton triplexes again   completed building by building April of 23 through  October of 23 mlan Manor Apartments construction   was completed in August of 2023 which is when  Greenway Manor Apartments construction began in   August of 23 in October of 23 a disagreement  between the general contractor and witch rad   senior uh on the need for several million in  additional funding on the project so our GC came   forward saying we need Millions more to complete  this we attempted to mitigate for several months   but in May of 2024 the partnership um terminated  the contract with our general contractor and filed   lawsuit since then they have filed a counter  claim of course in August of 24 um we've met   with mabcd to determine if the uh wh's employee  with a Class B contractor's license license could   be listed on the permits to allow construction to  continue in September of 24 had met at the site   to discuss the completion plan and in October  of 24 the contracts were rebid and we attempted   to secure a new general contractor in November of  24 we were unsuccessful in securing a new general   contractor as as all of those that we approached  all those local gc's were unwilling to be listed   on the permits due to the active litigation Keeler  construction though a class a general contractor   has contracted to manage the construction and  complete the carpentry work but is unwilling   to be listed on the permits um we have entered  into new contracts with the remaining trades we   are actually able to enter into contracts with all  of the same trades except the plumbing contractor   they were the only ones we weren't able to  come to terms but as you can imagine prices   have increased significantly since the fixed price  contract was entered into bid and awarded in 2021   so additional funding is necessary to complete  the renovations not quite to the level that was   demanded by the original general contractor  the Kansas housing resources Corporation has   approved an increase in the Housing Trust Fund  funding from $500,000 to 1 million and the City   of witta Housing Authority as a member of The  Entity that serves as the general partner of   which to rad senior LP is required to approve  the additional funding the project also has   just over 500,000 in unspent HUD public  housing Capital funds that were budgeted   for relocation expenses when we've closed  on the project we were informed that we   were going to have to relocate persons to  private Market units during construction   we got a a ruling later that said no we could  relocate them within our own properties which   greatly diminish the amount we had to spend in  relocation and because of that that's why we   still have about $500,000 sitting there um  we are recommending a budget adjustment of $485,500 um to transfer six residents back from  green to Greenway Manor from mlan they're the   only ones who've asked to be trans transferred  back after construction is complete there is no   impact to the general fund the HUD regulations  require that those that public housing Capital   funds be spent only on this particular project  or we have to give them back to HUD the law   department has reviewed the capital fund Grant  agreement and authorizing resolution for the   khrc trust funds and has approved them as to  form the project renovation must be completed   no later than October 2025 or we risk default  on the bonds the tax credits and the HUD 221   D4 loan so it is recommended that the witcha  Housing Authority board approve the resolution   authorize the ex execution of the capital fund  funding agreement and authorize a city employee   with a witcha housing authority to serve as the  general contractor on the construction permits   for the renovation of Greenway Manor Apartments  and I stand for any questions thank you very much   Sally we'll begin with council member hoisel  thank you mayor and thank you Sally for the   presentation that every time I see it you know  you got a hard job there um two questions uh one   is is there any compensation to the employee  who will be serving as general contractor   it is not out really outside of his scope of  he's already a general maintenance supervisor   within the department and C the reason we  have that license is because he serves in   that role for all our other construction  projects that happen out of the housing   Authority so no additional compensation okay uh  the second is um I know it's a lawsuit so you   can't say too much is the the increase in funding  needed for this because of delays is that going   to be part of it is needed because prices have  increased both on the labor and the materials   since those original contracts were bid in 2021  so that's why the funding is needed well I mean   is it going to be wrapped into any lawsuit that  oh the loss in Revenue there or the difference   I guess there there's definitely um how should I  word that Jennifer and again if if you don't feel   comfortable answering that's fine as well I'm  sorry there will yes we will be seeking damages   thank you okay thank you all right thank you  [Music] s vice mayor Ballard you mayor whoa that   is a lot I don't even know how you keep all that  straight but I am so happy and so excited to hear   because I hear about Greenway Manor all the time  about what's going on why is there fence around it   you know so and I know um how happy and excited  some of the residents will be that choose to go   back to Greenway Manor so I don't know why this  got so complic I mean I do but um it shouldn't   have gotten so complicated it's such a really  wonderful thing um for our community and I'm so   happy that we finally found it someone to be the  general contractor which is ourselves right M so   it's okay thank you very much I appreciate all  your hard work on it thanks Sally since those   uh attendants currently are at other uh locations  does that mean that once this is completed they   will move back into Greenway Manor and then the  other spaces will open up for others so only six   residents remain are asking to come back from uh  mlan Manor which we kind of suspected many would   get settled in at the other building that had been  recently been rehabbed that they might not want to   be you know um disrupted again so at this point  the number is six it could actually decrease um   between now and when the building's finished  I'm praying it's in August not October um but   don't like to come that close to the deadline so  so that means six individuals will come back to   this uh Greenway Manor which then opens up  how many 78 units for elderly disabled yes   and I know that this has been the entire  conversation or a dominant conversation   today about affordable housing and these 78 units  for um some of our older residents with mobility   issues uh we'll then be able to have 78 units that  will come online August of 2025 hopeful hopefully   August of 2025 correct so thank you very much I  appreciate that my Ma I see no further questions   for staff we will now open it up for public  comment I see no one from the public we will   bring it back to the bench I move to approve the  resolution authorize execution of the capital fund   funding agreement and authorize a city employee  with the witcha housing authority to serve as   general contractor on the construction permits  for the renovation of Greenway Manor Apartments   second motion and a second any further disc  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the role motion passes 60 Madame clerk please call  the next item council member appointments and comments council members uh with  appointments we'll begin with council   member John stun thank you mayor I would  like to appoint Dr Jason Albertson AET   vetenarian to Animal Services  Advisory Board and I'd like to   appoint Lamont Anderson to diversity  inclusion and civil rights Advisory board I will motion to approve  I I will move to approve uh the   recommended individuals for  appointment second motion and   a second any further discussion I see  none Madame clerk please open the role motion passes 60 council member comments council member comment  no one okay I'm just going to say   thank you this is the last meeting  of the year um so again thank you   to the staff for preparing all of these  documents and staying till the very end   um and council members thanks for making sausage  as Becky likes to call it um I appreciate that   we've come to multiple compromises from this  bench uh in the 2024 season so uh with that   I will motion I will move to adjourn second  Motion in a second Madam clerk please open the role motion passes 60 we're  adjourned at 607 7 p.m.