e23 parks and Natural Resources Commission meeting to order at 6 30 pm tonight's parks and Natural Resources Commission meeting will be held in person and virtually using Zoom as chair I will be leading the meeting tonight and the public is welcome to participate when invited throughout the meeting members of the public May attend the meeting in person or join online via Zoom if attendees experience audio problems we suggest you leave the meeting and then rejoin this usually fixes the issue additional instructions on how to participate are posted online at burnsvillemn.gov and the public meeting calendar as usual tonight's meeting is available for view viewing on bctv and the City website if you are unable to participate this evening in what like to submit public testimony I do encourage you to email your comments to City staff or mail your comments directly to City Hall you may also call into the meeting at 651-372-8299 for each public hearing I will open up a time when callers may speak to that item and give more instructions your call will be muted until that time please note there may be a slight delay due to differences in technology if you are speaking by phone please mute your computer since there may be a delay now on to tonight's agenda um the first item on tonight's agenda is adoption of the agenda do any members of the commission have any changes um staff are there any changes to tonight's agenda nothing from Steph perfect I may have a motion for the adoption of the agenda so move um do we have a second second Perfect all in favor aye anybody opposed all right that emotion passes moving on to approval of minutes consider tonight's approval for the March 6th today is no to March 6th it's not April 17th April 17th um oh the minutes are for March 6th minutes good evening everybody it is blame it on Monday brain okay the March 6th meeting minutes any changes to those minutes commissioners all right how about Steph any changes nothing from Sarah right I'm gonna have an approval to may have a motion to approve the minutes so do we have a second second all in favor um anybody opposed all right the motion passes um all right set us in comments are there any members of the public or on Zoom who wish to speak I don't believe there's anybody waiting in the queue all right with that being said let's move on to the tonight we have a public hearing I'm reviewing burnsville's storm water pollution prevention program and a 2022 annual report um city code Water Resource Management plan and swpp policy updates and I welcome Jen to come join us thank you Jeff thank you chair and commission so tonight we have our consultant from SCH Emily jetting she's going to go through and for some of the new Commissioners maybe they aren't familiar with this annual meeting that we have to go through our stormwater plan she'll go through that and then we have some compliance measures we had and some new permitting and that we needed to comply with so we have additional approvals or recommendations tonight so Emily will go through that and I will be right over there in case anyone has any questions good evening Commissioners my name is Emily Jennings and I'm a water resources engineer at seh I'm going to be here tonight to talk about the city's ms4 permit as well as some other compliance measures like Jen mentioned um so the npdes program or national pollutant discharge elimination system requires that the city has an ms4 permit or a municipal separate storm sewer system we're going to talk about we're going to start talking about that today and then we're going to transition to some updates that were made to the city code Water Resources management plan and stormwater policy we're going to circle back and talk about compliance and then briefly look forward to kind of what's next for the permit um so like I mentioned the national pollutant discharge elimination system that's a federal program that was established with the Clean Water Act and the administration of that program is handled on the state level so in the state of Minnesota that's the Minnesota Pollution Control agency and the city of Burnsville is a phase two small ms4 and what that means is they have General permit coverage just like most of the neighbor communities kind of share the same requirements so an ms4 or Municipal separate storm Source system is a storm water conveyance or system of conveyances it's kind of nice graphic that just shows how a lot of activities in the city go towards our receiving Waters and the things that we do contribute to our receiving Waters um so the ms4 permit as a permate the city is required to have a swift or storm water pollution prevention plan and within that slip there are minimum control measures or mcm's there's a lot of acronyms associated with this program um so minimum control measure one of the city Swip is public education and Outreach um so each year the city uses various methods to outreach to the public including the newsletter press releases presentations events and training um City's website and social media minimum control measure two is public participation and involvement that's kind of the purpose of today's meeting is to present the swipe the stormwater program and solicit The public's feedback so uh we could take comments today um but if not today there also is a common form available online throughout the year minimum control Measure 3 is illicit discharge detection and elimination so this part portion of the stormwater program is that the city um really inspects the owl falls and priority areas throughout the city to look for illicit discharges there also is an illicit discharge Hotline in online form so anyone else can report a suspected illicit discharge in the year 2022 there was one elicit discharge that was reported and the Minnesota duty officer was contacted for that Alyssa discharge minimum control measure four is all about construction site runoff control so the um this portion of the stormwater program is having erosion and sediment control requirements that need to be established during construction the city inspects these construction sites and if there are issues a correction notice or not a violation is issued in the year 2022 there were 24 active sites the city completed 187 inspections and there were 44 written notices of violation via email that were issued kind of sounds like a lot but nothing escalated further than that so it was effective minimum control measure 5 is post-construction runoff control so the point kind of of this portion of the stormwater program is that the city has requirements in place um and kind of a high level look at those is that the city requires that pre-development runoff rates are matched the city is consistent with the minimal impact design standards and the city completes reviews of any potential developments in the year 2022 there were 13 permits that were issued for sites greater than one acre in the city of Burnsville and lastly minimum control measure six um this minimum control measure is called pollution prevention or Good Housekeeping it's a sort of a little bit of like a practice what you preach thing you know the city has requirements for developers but they're also expected to kind of maintain their own infrastructure here so within the city there are several sumps outfalls and ponds and as you can see 93 of the sumps were inspected in 2022 17 of the outfalls and 21 of the ponds um so the goal here is that the sums will be inspected annually and the owl falls and ponds are about 20 annually kind of get them in one permit cycle um so now I'm kind of Switching gears so um we're going to talk about the updates that were made to the city code Water Resources management plan and stormwater policy so in February of 2020 the lower Minnesota River Watershed District adopted new rules um and shortly after that the ms4 permit was reissued in November of 2020. so these kind of two things combined um led us to updates that were needed to the city code Water Resources management plan and the policy to maintain compliance with these rules so starting off with the city code so city code title six there was a new section created in chapter two and it was about all about animal waste so the requirements of this are owners or custodians of pets are required to pick up after their pets um keep areas where pets congregate clean as clean as possible because the pet waste does contribute to water quality or affects the water quality um city code Title VII um the uh chapter 2 section 21 prohibited discharge into the sanitary sewers and storm drainage system this is kind of the illicit discharge section of the city code so where there were some minor changes um just to provide a little bit more clarity to that section and then in chapter seven a new section was created all about de-icers so essentially for salt or sand use in the in the winter anything that would be classified as a de-icer some rules for how that is stored long term and how it's cleaned up because deicing does the the it does have an effect on our water quality as well and then city code title 10 there were two sections that were modified including in chapter eight uh Section 8 which is controlling erosion and sediment from Land of serving activities and section 11 storm water management overlay District standards um so Section 8 there were quite a few larger changes that were made and we'll get into that a little bit more in the next section but essentially the majority of that section was removed and kind of moved towards the Water Resources management plan appendix C so that section was shortened up and really references that Water Resources management plan document there were very few changes to section 11 because that section already really referenced that appendix C of the Water Resources management plan so just a couple minor revisions there um so the code was updated as well as the Water Resources management plan so appendix B of the Water Resources management plan is a volume control and filtration worksheet this worksheet is meant for anyone who's proposing development or designing development in the city of Burnsville that meets the requirements this worksheet sort of goes hand in hand with the requirements of appendix C so that was updated to follow the new appendix C appendix C also called the development standards again this is a document for those who want to develop a site or design a site in the city of Burnsville there were several changes that were made to this document um and the biggest one um probably Falls within the stormwater management section so like I mentioned the lower Minnesota River Watershed District updated their rules as well as the new ms4 permit so those those new rules were built into the storm water management section so that includes volume control for development water quality and rate control requirements there also is an erosion and sediment control section so again we saw those new requirements and also a lot of that content that used to be in the city code now into this document and then there's a handful of other sections there is a flood control section and a section for special Waters and wetlands those were revised slightly to be consistent with the code as it stands and there is a section for design criteria and submittals and those were changed to be really clear and consistent and just really make it really obvious on what the design criteria is and what needs to be submitted to the city to get the permit um so in addition to all of those changes um we created some flow charts so this can get kind of complicated so flow charts to help with sort of an at a glance look um help people figure out kind of where they're going to land in these new requirements um and there is one figure and one table that is also associated with a appendix so here's just one of the three flow charts that we made um so you're not meant to be able to I know it's the text is small you don't need to kind of read it and review the entire thing but as you can sort of see here it just helps those designers and developers figure out where they're going with their requirements so this is kind of an at a glance of the development standards document um so the stormwater management policy so the policy document um is it sort of exists alongside the city's ms4 program it's a large portion of the city Swip storm water pollution prevention plan um and how I mentioned kind of early on those different minimum control measures and what the city does uh for compliance this is a procedural document that goes side by side with that um so it's got uh sections minimum control measures one through six it also has a section for discharges to impaired Waters so um the overall goals of the update of all um documents was compliance um the city needs to maintain compliance with the Watershed requirements as well as their ms4 permit but also we took this opportunity to be really consistent have consistency in references and you know where people go for what information and to keep the development standards as the source for design and submittal requirements for those who are designing project or developing projects in the city of Burnsville so Switching gears now to compliance so the um the purpose of today's meeting is you know that minimum control measure to public participation and involvement this a similar meeting was held last year there were no comments and therefore no changes were made to the city Swift because of that um alongside this annual meeting in this process the city does an annual review and a self-assessment the the 2022 annual report preparation has been a little bit different this year normally we would be talking about a report that was submitted to the mpca or will be submitted to the mpca um regarding the 2022 activities for the MSR program however the mpca is doing something a little bit different this year um they are switching their reporting to something that it's e-services it's essentially the mpca's website for taking permit applications and annual reports as they make that switch there is no no report that will be submitted to the mpca this year however they do want that information submitted when e-services is ready to go so that'll be sometime summer of 2024. um so the city still completed the annual review and self-assessment and maintain compliance with those activities just kind of waiting for that new change to reporting to happen next year um and that's again why we're here today to talk about the city stormwater program if there were any comments the city would review and respond to those so looking forward um the code updates development standards in stormwater policy the next step is city council meeting on May 2nd Jen did you want to add anything else about the process um I think on a future slide we have what our recommendations are so I can wait till then all right thank you um so we're also looking forward like I said using the e-services in 2024 to submit the annual report and that will be a 2022 2023 combined annual report now staff recommendation recommendations um so the council has to approve all of these documents but we're bringing it before this commission tonight for recommendations for approval so we have the title 10 code updates updates to our Water Resources management plan appendix B and C and then changes to the store monitor management policy 5.155 There's a summary in your materials that had more a little bit more detail about what we did in each of those areas and so in addition to holding a public hearing tonight to take those public comments on our overall program we'd be looking for the commission to make a recommendation to recommend approval by the city council for these three things like I do have a question um and uh curious about you mentioning de-icing and things like that um what kind of best management practices is the city doing are they doing smart salting those kinds of things what just just looking for a little information on the detail yeah did you want to answer that one yeah so the city is required um as an ms4 community and one that owns and operates some type of salt storage the city is required to have salt kept on an impervious surface as well as undercover and then they are required to implement best management practices when you are transferring or you know loading or unloading the material so the city has those structural bmps in place that impervious bottom and then the cover and then implementing those best practices there's covered during winter maintenance trainings and those kind of things staff understand that hey if we see you know deposits of salt we need to pick them up move them into that salt storage and then as well as for the actual winter maintenance the city participates in the smart salting training and they attend the mpca's trainings that are out there as well as perform calibration of equipment to you know only really use what needs to be used it's really mutually beneficial for the city and the receiving lottery so thanks I thank you is there anything else before we I had a dumb question I I know what else close hour and I know what ponds are but where do we have sumps sure so sums are um in line with our storm sewer system they're essentially they can be a variety of different things but the simplest form is just a manhole structure that is deep and it has a pipe that's not at the bottom but it's elevated a little bit so in between your two pipes you have kind of this you know dead storage of water so as water falls in it splashes into that water and the big grit and large sediments settle out in that that kind of little pool of water before it kind of bounces out to the next storm surge system so those are um they can often be found prior to an owl fall prior to a discharge point or sometimes they're like if someone goes in and do does a development they're sort of at that most Downstream end um to kind of you know do your best to treat your water before it now moves on to something else whether it be someone else's property or right-of-way or receiving water I have a question regarding the salt across the city what about larger retail operations yeah so that um that's section 12 of chapter seven that is targeted at um institutions educational institutions uh uh industrial facilities and commercial facilities so that city code section is really targeted towards them and the requirement is that they have to store their salt properly and and use it properly we shouldn't see for example a large pile of salt just kind of sitting in a parking lot waiting to be used that that wouldn't be an appropriate use it needs to be stored undercover or in a sealed container used sparingly and then again if there's large deposits it should be cleaned up after the fact so that section was directed towards those type of facilities okay what about post winter if we ever get there yeah I mean the responsibility of Property Management to clean their parking lots and then what do they do with what they've scooped up after usage yeah so that's um I would I had the the exact section in front of me the the requirements are that it has to be disposed of properly it should be you know what that could look like a few different things it could be saved and reused you know or it should be thrown away it shouldn't be tossed out in the yard or you know something like that um dispose of properly it's kind of the expectation that could look differently of course um depending on how much or or what it is JJ is there anyone in the public that is interested in commenting before we continue with commissioners I am not getting any indication that there is all right so we can go ahead and close the public hearing did we formally I think you need to open the publicity thank you um do I need a demotion for Carlos to take over for me tonight you're doing great all right I would like to open this item up for a public hearing is there anyone that would like to be part of the public hearing I am getting nobody on Zoom is what I've Been Told sounds great public hearing close the public hearing um and then Commissioners we can continue our comments questions that we might have my one question that I do have is when the city cleans up the roads after once everything is done where do they dispose of what they've cleaned up from the roads in terms of salt and debris um so we do annual street sweeping and we're doing that right now and so then they dispose of it in a landfill so there is it kind of like a vacuum where they just kind of like sweep it up and then vacuum it into yep swept up and then there's yeah exactly right and then we get all of that sediment it's sedimented salt it's it's all the debris that you've seen that's collected all all winter we do it again um in the fall so pick up leaves although no one should be raking their leaves in the street for this purpose just a side note on that um but we we do it for both spring and and fall cleanup and then it's disposed of I think they I'm not sure I'd have to check with our main and superintendent how much they can compost but they um dispose of it properly landfill or I think perfect um and then my other question was looking at the section about animals and animal waste how is pet animal waste different than wild animal waste when it comes to the water um it's it's not honestly I think the um the reason why domestic pets are we saw some new change in regulation related to that is because it's tangible um it's easy for a I shouldn't say it's easy but it's a it's a it's an attainable requirement to say that the mess owners of domestic pets should clean up after their pets if they're at the park or on a walk it's really difficult for the regulation to require wild animals that are cleaned up for um so I think that um although it's it's not very different um this again is um something that that can be done there are you knows regarding bacteria animal waste contributes to bacteria um polluting you know pollutants in water um there are requirements that the city puts in place to get other sources of bacteria and you know while wild animals is part of that again it's you know it's not going to be a requirement that we have to clean up after the deer or anything but we do clean up after the geese the geese are yes they're they're guilty of contributing to this problem concentrated when they're all roosting right on the beaches yes yes thank you thank you Commissioners if there are no other questions I believe that staff is looking for us to make a recommendation that Council approve the updates to city code title 10 the council approve updates to appendix B and C of the Water Resources management plan and the council approved the updates to the storm water management policy 5.155 so recommend is there a second oh second all in favor I know anybody opposed I think that passes thank you everyone thank you we will now move on to our multimodal plan update with Miss Jen desert once again all right um so tonight I'm just going to go over our 2021 multimodal plan just a recap of why we have it some of the goals we have and then some upcoming projects and things that we're studying so the plan was approved by the city council in October of 2021 and um the purpose was to develop a safer and more inclusive transportation system for all users and this is really important to me especially the most vulnerable users of the system so those are the people who aren't driving cars that's everyone else who's not driving a car um and it aligns with our city council strategic Vision Values priorities or 2040 comp plan and our 2020 sustainability plan so the this is a document that fits all of fits under all of those umbrellas and the main goals of the multimodal plan were for me as the city engineer trying to make sure that we were investing in areas that needed it so we called it a blue blueprint for investment as we're preparing our Capital Improvement program where should we prioritize and then action-oriented implementation strategies so looking at data looking at where things are needed looking at it from a holistic approach and then at the time we were looking at opportunities for new and shared Mobility Investments that's one chapter I'm not going to really go through it that today during that process we did a really broad public engagement we had 10 in-person events and we had an online survey and a paper map at those events so people could draw on a map these are areas that are important to me these are crossings that I get nervous Crossing and things like that we had an interactive website where when you were online we were trying to promote going to this website and there was places where you could put a pin in those same locations we delivered flyers in 500 flyers in three languages we had social media posts we had Burnsville bulletin articles and then we had six meetings and workshops and one of those was with this group and here's just not to read at all but this is this is kind of a summary of what that Community engagement had we we just we got a lot of data to use towards the plan and here's box that I've just highlighted the top five priorities really are safety Crossing Comfort maintenance access and connectivity those are the the main drivers of how we created the plan at the same time we worked through a complete streets policy which was approved at the same time by the council and that is where we go through all of our Capital Improvement projects and we look at them from a complete streets lens so we can't always build a trail but maybe there's some Crossing improvements we can do with our projects or maybe there's some restriping we can do to add a bike lane if that makes sense and then we complete this worksheet to just show that we've we've evaluated it we haven't made in the past with projects we never did this before so we just started it in the last two years and our traffic committee reviews that that's an internal committee with maintenance fire police planning Communications to make sure that we're not missing anything or anything you know from a snow plowing perspective do you really want all these bump outs Jen no but I say yes so um there's a little little fighting about it but we try to come to concurrence about what kind of improvements we can make and then active Transportation infrastructure this section is really how do we Implement what's our action plan and there are these are some strategies to use so we do it in conjunction with a planned project so we already have you know so many millions of dollars of Street improvements with the complete streets policy can we add a little bit more money while we're doing the project and make some some multimodal improvements we also do it with Redevelopment and then there's some opportunities that just present themselves grants or other agency partners like Dakota County come to the table with some money and it makes sense and then there's some stand-alone projects that would be something where it's a huge priority and we plan for it and we put it as a standalone project into our into our Capital Improvement program so I'm going to go through some of the projects we have coming up our 2023 implementation plan so this is ones that are in conjunction with planned projects so in 2023 we are doing a street Improvement project on Nicollet Avenue between McAndrews and 42. and just sort of setting the stage we have existing Trails um kind of in all around it but not on it on nicoletta's narrow sidewalks and in 2022 we installed or we striped on-street bike Lanes through the hospital area um we that used to be two lanes in each Direction it's divided now it's one in each Direction with a wide bike lane and we also put bike Lanes on Portland so with our 2023 projects we're going to be putting a 10 foot asphalt or a two minutes Trail on the east side which will connect well with the trails that are on that are north of McAndrews um also connects with the existing Trail that's on County Road 42 and it will connect with our entry bike lanes that are through the hospital area so making those connections and it just works out that it's on a street project that we already had planned and then south of 42 we are doing a street project on Grand Avenue we have that's the same trail that was kind of on this bottom of the picture before a 10-foot Trail on the North side that's that extension of the bike lane on Portland and we're proposing a connection 10 foot Trail on the west side so on the MnDOT side so there's no driveway accesses that bike can kind of go without any interruptions between Southcross and 42. this is an example of a Redevelopment type of implementation so this is in the Heart of the City the real life Co-op is kind of right in the center of the the map there we have under construction 135 units at the Villas 162 units at the Concord Flats those are under construction now I'm sure you've seen them um and the blue lines are all of our sidewalk networks existing sidewalks so there's a lot of sidewalks out there but there's a glaring Gap I'll show you in a minute so oh and also I should add the Gateway housing second edition if you can see my pointer proposes to add another 111 units right here so if you are at the new apartments and you want to go to Nicollet Commons park this is the way to get there on our current sidewalk Network which is a little long and out of the way and this is how you're more likely going to do it cutting through that green space it's quicker shorter it's Direct so um what we're proposing and it's going to be at Council for consideration tomorrow night is to construct a trail in that area that's in sort of lime green between Pleasant and Pillsbury and we've been actively working with the real life Co-op and we'll continue to work with them on obtaining an easement to do that funding for that is the Redevelopment funding because those apartments had to pay us a park dedication fee and we're using those funds directly for this so it's kind of Redevelopment related those users of those or the residents of those apartments will likely use it and it was a really kind of a good Nexus in the Burnsville Center Village area the areas the areas in green are existing and these are our two that we're constructing with our 2023 projects that I had brought up earlier we have um and I'll talk about this in a later presentation but we have our 35W County Road 42 Buck Hill Road which we are building with a Ted Grant we're building some trails with that project and then the areas here we applied for a safe streets for all Grant we were not successful but we heard that we had a great application we should try again um but we that would construct all of these Trails so having two 10-foot Trails on both sides of County Road 42 and on both sides of County Road 5 on one side of Southcross and on one side of 150th Street and then on the west side of Buck Hill Road creating this network so you can get anywhere you need to go in this area kind of around the the mall area um we have in our CIP and we'll be working on soon is preliminary engineering for the light blue dashed so just the county road we have a partnership with Dakota County and if we can get plans to a 30 we say and get construction costs then we are just better positioned for applying for those grants We Know Better which it's going to cost right now we kind of throw um the county uses three million dollars per mile of trail the city's been using 1.5 million dollars per mile it costs more to build a street or cost more to build a trail than it does the street because of the need for right-of-way the need for retaining walls um the grading and all of that so right now we have most of the street right of way we need so that's and we're repaving streets that are already existing um similarly in Cliff area we have partnered with Dakota County to look at Trail gaps along Cliff Road and that's kicking off um tomorrow we're actually kicking off that um contract with the consultant tomorrow they're going to look at Trail gaps and crossings along Cliff Road in the area in red and they're also going to look at Future roadway under 35W bridge to see fitting a trail under the bridge there and then we're going to look at a multimodal connection between cliff and 13 because um I'll talk about this in a minute um 13 and and Nicollet is a big project a big multimodal Crossing and so we want to position ourselves so that when that gets constructed we can get to Cliff we can get to the river we can cross the river and all in a connected way this is what I said it would be in a minute it's the Highway 13 and Nicollet so this is um almost a 45 million dollar project it will grade separate Nicholas so 13 would go under Nicollet um keeping pedestrians at the street level is a safer approach than just building a pet Bridge so some people have asked wouldn't a Pedro Bridge be way less expensive and yes it would be way less expensive but if you have to go on like a circle to get up to the top of the pet bridge and cross and then a circle to go down or you see I want to go straight across some people will not do that longer way so if we keep niclet up and have the sidewalks right on Nicollet then that's going to be the straight across route and 13 is a giant barrier for crossing and so having niclet be um elevated above and 13 depressed will be a major Improvement we've already secured a little over 15 million so we have a 10 million dollar Grant from the Met Council we have three million in federal funds we have City CIP money and we have Dakota County partnering um I was at the legislature today asking for bonding money the council has asked that the state bond for this project and so we're hoping to be successful with that and we continue to apply for a bunch of Grants federal grants because that 45 million is is deep been away um we do the three million in federal money that I have we've already gotten will be used for preliminary design and so once we have preliminary design it's a little bit more momentum to get the rest of the project going and we're we're scheduled for 2027 Construction so this is not my project Public Works director Ryan Peterson asked that I talk about this as part of the multimodal so the Lake Marion Greenway is a collaboration with Dakota County and it is planned as a connection a regional connection between multiple um points of interest so parks and and green spaces to get all the way up to the Minnesota River we have the Kelleher segment constructed and the rose Bluff segment constructed but the Gap is in the middle um Dakota County and the city applied for federal funding but we did not receive it so right now where we're at is we're continuing to work with Dakota County and we're going to continue to work with the neighbors um because this is there's multiple options for how to get through here and right now none of them have been truly selected it's kind of keep working with the neighborhood try and find a solution that works to get that Gap filled between and then lastly this is um an unfortunate part of our implementation plan we were not successful um in obtaining a grant so there is no sidewalk um on Greenwood Drive between County Road 5 and around that curve Leah's Apartments um is an apartment for disabled adults and so a lot of times people who live there who want to come out to County Road 5 for transit or access to any of the retail locations walk in the street or cut through a parking lot and it's just not a real safe way so we were approached by one of the residents who is no longer living there but to try and build this sidewalk and this Transportation active Transportation Grant seemed like a perfect solution we did apply at the end of last year and we were notified I think about a month ago that we were not selected for the project but we'll keep trying on this one too because it's really important to Gap to fill so that is my presentation on multimodal I'm happy to take any questions I think this was a lot more interesting than stormwater stuff but it's pretty comprehensive too so so I keep hearing that there's some kind of um Community objection to expanding that Marian Gap oh I know that's Ryan's project yes I think the issue here is that um there's already existing Trail segment along Sunset Pond and the concern is that the faster cyclists will take over that trail and and make it uncomfortable for people who are just walking or strolling or slower bikers who are just more leisurely so there is an option to have an on-street route that's the one in pink with some off Street connections I think um people if we have two options so they're going to take the one that suits them the best and so if they're faster cyclists they prefer on street and so that would if we have the correct signage you know if you're if you want to go more than 10 miles an hour on your bike you shouldn't be on one of these Trails anyway so um and a lot of times cyclists can go 20 30. they're on so I think that's the concern so Ryan is going to continue to have those conversations we're going to have more public engagement opportunities to meet and discuss well if somebody washed that trail almost every day I don't see a lot of high-speed bicyclists it's just doesn't see on the on the whole Trail so yeah I think the concern is that they will come true or not but um if they did have another option where they were not trying to dodge around baby strollers and things like that they would probably take them on Street Route I would imagine but um more to come on this one okay it does look like along Sunset Pond it is there's more corners more potential surprises is also more Goose evidence [Laughter] I would think that would be a selling point for judicial for somebody who doesn't want the tough tossed up off their tires yeah potentially I think I think the plan shows widening Trail I think the node is softened the curves so some construction would be done it wouldn't be just used in as it is today okay not the same footprint though there'd be some there'd be some smoothing of corners and things yeah good thanks like who's Crossing those geese are violating the city code more than we yell at them every day what what's the likelihood um for bonding do you think for right now you have a crystal ball on that I so I was at the transportation Committee hearing luckily we were first there were 45 other items to be heard so I'm not sure I'm cautiously optimistic and I think having introduced it into the bonding legislation this year gives us a better chance at Future years because it'll be a repeat project we've also continually applied for Grants and so in if we don't get the bonding this year it's a 2027 construction so we don't get it this year we can certainly try again next year and hopefully we've gotten some more federal grants acquired that makes our bond request a lot more appealing with the with the 15 million you currently have on board do any of those funds expire and can any of it be used for the planning stages yeah five years so we're good it was a federal congressionally directed spending was for preliminary engineering so we are going to use that three million there's a local match that we're starting to look at how do we get that together we want we're asking MnDOT and Dakota County to assist with the local match that's required but we're looking at doing that later this fall or into next year starting the preliminary engineering for three million dollars we'd expect to be able to get a whole plan set and be ready to go have really good cost estimates and then we can certainly keep applying for Grants based on that and we also will have one of the determinants for Grants is Project Readiness so the more we can push along the more ready we are the better the grant will look thank you I'm looking at uh Nicollet and Highway 13. how does that work with the buses getting into the Minnesota Valley Transit Authority they will still have the same access through that same traffic signal that they have today up here and they have access here but 13 on to Nicollet from 13 on on the roundabout and then the roundabout would bring them to and same with orange line they'd have access there okay so this there's still going to be a signal on 13 but it'll have reduced number of vehicles going through it so it will be an improvement for the mainline 13 traffic operations but also by separating them upgrade separating them out with niclet the Improvement for Nicollet so there is still a signal it's not a freeway through 13 there's still um there won't there won't be a pedestrian Crossing there at all no no pedestrian Crossing at this location but you can kind of see this like little thicker line it's on both sides there's a little wider Trail you would stay if you're coming from Heart of the City you would just go around the roundabout and cross up on the bridge if you want to keep going to Holiday just cross there's a smaller crossing that's an on-ramp it's fewer vehicles or if you want to get over here you could cross that grade or for anyone who wanted to go around you go underneath and come back up so there's a way to stay traffic conflict free if you wanted to so if I'm understanding correctly you're combining The Pedestrian Crossing with that upgrade up and over Nicollet right and the traffic light on 13 would be east of Nicholas then yes yeah it's offset so that you can still still come from here and then you're down low on 13 and come back up to Nicollet so it's kind of almost like a ramp up all right so if you're going from Nicollet heading north on Nicollet to 13 then you'll work that roundabout to that light to get on 13 then correct yep unless you want it to go on to to 35W North you can use this access so avoiding 13 altogether it's going to be a mess during construction it's gonna be great when it's done that's what I was just thinking too bad we have to wait for some so long yes all Transportation Planning takes a long long time there's so much in that goes into it it's kind of amazing any other questions from Commissioners on this project so quick question um on that grant that wasn't approved by Leah's apartment what was the main reason why so there were I they didn't have me to give to there was a lot of projects that applied and then they just ranked them and we just ranked just outside of the the window they didn't give me a ranking but they did provide me with a list of all the projects and it looked like they were in order and we were in the top five and I think they they think they um funded the top three uh yeah I was just curious if there was a specific reason because I drive through here all the time to take my dog to agility class and all winter I'd see cars lined up on this road I don't know if they're because of the snow removal and the apartments or whatnot and just thinking how there really isn't a lot of space in there as is right now yeah yeah one of the things that Grant um reviewers had said was they may have additional money from the legislature and they may just take the list of projects and just start funding so I have a little glimmer of hope that they might fund enough to get to ours because this is a really important any other questions all right so there's no formal action on this line item tonight um shall we move on to Heart of the City update when I'm gonna welcome gender to present on part of the city welcome Jen thank you I am going to welcome Regina Dean who is our assistant community development director we worked on this collaboratively engineering and Community Development so um it was a planning document so Regina's going to cover the bulk of it and I will cover the implementation thank you good evening commission thank you chair The Heart of the City design framework it was initially established in 1999 it's hard to believe it's almost 20 it was almost 25 years before we took a re-look at it and how much happened between then and and now and and so a lot has happened since then we've seen a lot of new condos apartment buildings orange line is within the area and and so we wanted to look at not only the framework or that guiding document but some of the work that has been been done such as sidewalks Street lighting the park space that we have within the area and if um you know if any improvements or some guidance needed to be made in respect to maybe re-looking at what's already been installed some of the pavers are upheaving and are tripping Hazard and and cause some Mobility impediments for people in wheelchairs or for example and and and so that was a goal one to update what was existing that that almost 25 year old plan evaluate those existing conditions and then think of this as a kind of a fresh with fresh new eyes so looking at is there opportunity for wayfinding signs to guide us to things like parking or if you're walking from a different area where is Nicollet Commons park I can't believe people wouldn't know where it is but maybe they don't um and then public art there is certainly a lot of public art within heart of the city but is our opportunity for more public art or maybe directing people to the public art without wayfinding we also wanted to look at parking we do have a parking ramp and parking structure and on-street parking but is there is that enough parking do we need more or do we need again wayfinding to try to get people to find these well-designed beautiful brown amps but some people don't even know their parking and so we wanted to look at that as well as our special assessment policy that was something that was being looked at by our city council and our Public Works engineering staff to see how those nice improvements that we have within Heart of the City are is it Equitable on how people are are charged for those higher added amenities within within that space so that was gave us an opportunity to re-look at what we had in place and of course public engagement we wanted to really convene the community and and and get feedback not only from the commissions our Council but then also the the general public that use the space there were a number of opportunities which we connected with our city council I should back up we ended up selecting Damon Farber as the league consultant that worked with us through the process and developed our final framework but they had sub contractors with I believe was it s SCH and AKA hkgi a couple of different plants have a landscape plans planning lens and then also an engineering lens for the work that they did again we we connected with our city council we had a joint commission meeting some familiar faces in those photos or parks recreation Natural Resources Commission Economic Development commission and Planning Commission attended a joint Workshop to provide feedback I think we had an interactive like text where we ranked projects and and um and that was nice to have something interactive there are also opportunities um see here looks like yeah lots of council work sessions there we had opportunity to engage with the public as I had mentioned before two pop-up events at the fire muster and Nicollet Commons park we also had the opportunity to go to the um the association that Jen just spoke about where that Trails proposed between the school district property and the co-op so as you can see that middle photo that was our engagement with the um they had mentioned connecting within the area and you know we heard them you know loud and clear about um with engaging on this um part of the city framework as well we had the opportunity to go to the middle school just right up the road that was probably my favorite to hear what the students in that age range thought of Heart of the City in fact when I mentioned Heart of the City they looked at me like what Heart of the City and then I started naming some of the businesses in the area and I mentioned caribou and then they're like oh yeah we know what you're talking about so apparently middle schoolers love caribou um so that was a great opportunity um I think one of them mentioned they wanted to see a nightclub with me that was an interesting use and but they love art public art was something that they really got excited about as well but great to have their feedback we did an online survey and a mapping exercise as well with this project and we also had a staff project management team that was included when we met um often I can't remember if it was monthly monthly Thanks Jen we met monthly and it comprised of people from from various departments um planning engineering um Parks our community engagement Communications but then also our staff members from our public works department that are out in the field taking care of our side box and our Landscaping within that area that are you know on the ground day to day that we're able to provide feedback as well and um you know a lot of times like as a planner we drink big and it's like well you know do we have equipment to clean it can it can it be cleared so it's a long-term maintenance what's the cost associated with that so having a bigger group giving feedback was was great so we took all of that information what we learned from the past the current that 1999 document the feedback from the community feedback from our commissions and Council we also looked at other work that we had done and didn't really touch on this but we had done a rezoning of the area from our Heart of the City to more of a Transit oriented development zoning district and expanded part of the city not only from South of Highway 13 North of Burnsville Parkway and kind of Nicollet and then to the west of i-35w we continued it on further west of i-35w to stretch what we now consider kind of a larger Heart of the City area so we wanted to look at what are the connections those Mobility connections from west of 35W over on the other side for their to Nicollet um [Music] so a re-look after we were we were done we came up with a A list of table contents which you see on this slide here and I'm going to turn it over to Jen to get more into the details of that and look up now and at the end I'll just sit over here um so as you can see it's a really comprehensive table of contents going through you know what was done for this the study itself how did we come to this document how did we have arrived at Mission and guiding principles and then what did we want the Heart of the City to look like what's the character of of each The Heart of the City you've got sort of your around Nicola Commons but it goes wider than that um and then a lot of it is in the public space so the prior framework was focused on both the public and the private but as Regina mentioned we have our city code now speaks to the private development so this is really now more of a public document about the public spaces the streets the sidewalks the trails the Landscaping all the things that are within the public right-of-way and for me as an engineer I like to build stuff and so I love an implementation table um and so some of the near-term things that are coming up is a paver replacement plan the pavers in the area if you've been in the area they're heaving they're tripping Hazard they're not ADA Compliant or accessible um and so we also have a color concrete problem out there so we are going to slowly chip away we can't do it all at once it would be just vastly too expensive but finding the worst areas and replacing pavers proposing no longer having pavers but having more of a decorative concrete that's not various shades of pink um so trying to like make it so that it is something that is maintainable but still looks nice and is elevated for something that is a sort of a special place Heart of the City we have started working on that paper replacement plan and starting to budget for it but we haven't obviously if you've been out there we have not replaced any pavers but it's in the near term and then Heart of the City District parking and management plan we're just kicking that off in the next couple of weeks the city council is going to consider ordering that project at their meeting tomorrow night and what that is is that we did hear that sometimes there's nowhere to park and I think the issue is there are plenty of places to park but people don't know how to get to those places so the consultant team is we're looking for them to give us recommendations we don't believe the recommendation will be to build more parking but it might be but really how do we how are we most efficient with our parking how do we direct people to Open Spaces there's technology out there to help us and so that's what we're hoping to gain from that District plan and then in the Heart of the City wayfinding plan that's uh something we have sort of marked in our 2024 CIP is coming up with a comprehensive way to have a district plan right now there's signage out there there's blue signs with hearts there's other things all over it's not cohesive it's not coordinated and so something that will work with our community engagement and Communications Department on but also hiring a consultant to help us come up with where do signs go how do they direct do we use technology do we not and so that will be coming up in a couple of years and then the last on the implementation is part of a MnDOT project so in 2025 and 2026 and I'll talk about this a little bit in the virtual Center presentation but MnDOT is doing a pavement project from the river bridge 242 and they're replacing Three Bridges they're replacing the Cliff Road Bridge the 13th bridge and the Burnsville Parkway bridge so that's planned they're starting to work but they've been working on it for a while with the Burnsville Parkway bridge replacement we if you've ever crossed that bridge those sidewalks seem like they're two feet wide and there's no place to put snow and there it's not a good condition so we are working with MnDOT to widen the bridge so we have a 12 foot Trail on one side and a seven foot sidewalk on the other and working through the motions on how to have them pay for that um so that's a 2025 2026 construction but we're working with them today to get it designed appropriately today so that Heart of the City we know it as being east of 35 but part of the city does in the in the code in the zoning on the west side so having that connection is important Regina and I are available for any questions you may have the virtual replacement incremental or are they going to just try for the Three Bridges you mean or yeah uh I think they will be phased they have not provided that um traffic management plan to the city yeah but they are working on it it would be over two years so it would not be three bridges down in at one time but I haven't seen the phasing or timing of that yet do you know how long it takes to replace a bridge I do not you're an engineer not a bridge engineer so with 42 maybe I'm jumping ahead is that gonna I'll tie in with the changes on the flow of traffic on 42 to 35 and um yeah so the next presentation I'll go into that in a little more detail but uh the the bottom line is MnDOT will be constructing that project with their full 35 project so we are working with them to input that into their project foreign with the parking there's a couple of things I was curious about um level I'm assuming they looked at levels of accessible parking and where those accessible parking spots would be for accessing the park Ames Etc um with one thing I have noticed is the flow in and out of the parking lot is narrow it's a constriction you know there's every parking lot is going to have some of that but uh are they looking at any changes in that layout or access into that into the ramps first or second floor so are you talking about them on just parking structures right um right yeah we aren't necessarily looking at making changes to the structure itself with this that could be a recommendation that comes out of it I don't know but we're mostly looking at getting people to those spaces and when we did this part of the city study we did get some parking data um our consultant seh was out there during an aim Center event and found that there were plenty of open parking spaces you might have had to walk a little bit um and that the so we call the um the parking deck which is right adjacent to Ames we call that the decking called the ramp the one that's on the other side was virtually empty during this aim Center event because I think people just don't think to go there or it's not as convenient so that would tie into potentially recommendation would be getting some signage or um and I don't want to say what the study's going to say but a potential could be if you've been to the Mall of America and they have all of those spaces and says how many stalls are on each open on each level it might be on the street saying 100 spaces are available at this parking ramp and kind of directing people to where the Open Spaces are that might I'm not trying to pre just I suppose what it'll say but that's a that's a potential idea any other questions um do you know what is if anything is being done to maintain like pedestrian walkability and with people that aren't using cars to get around The Heart of the City so as far as like snow removal or just as far as uh like wait I know you're you're like making changes or things like that uh making sure there's still viable sidewalks and things like that yeah we're proposing to make wider sidewalks than there are today and in places where there are only pavers and nothing else removing those and making them wider concrete sidewalks so I think only benefits for people who are walking or biking through the area the area west of 35 Burnsville Parkway 13. kind of surprised that that's far considered part of the Heart of the City is there a Redevelopment strategy or anything with that area the area west of um 35W yes so when we did the 2040 comprehensive plan um our consultant uh we knew orange line was coming and there's an orange line stop at 35W and Burnsville Parkway so they did some analysis and and they found that one there are a number of apartments that are they're Transit dependent that live there and so um they a recommendation was to make a stronger connection between those apartments and and the Orange Line station but then also there are a number of hotels and and buildings that are kind of at what I would consider end of end of life or Redevelopment have some Redevelopment opportunity so they also made a suggestion that you know they may want to consider to re-guide and rezone that area to something that would allow higher density and since Heart of the City was right next door we thought it'd be a nice kind of linkage or a nice transition um you know as a policy makers and and event you know um City staff eventually recommended that those changes be made and they were so um right now it's it does allow for higher density you might see those buildings remain for a number of years but if there is a developer that does have interest that wants to do something a little more intense they could have that opportunity so right now it you know it it might look I would say it's an opportunity Rich environment lots of potential any other questions comments nor formal action is required on this agenda item either uh thank you Chen and Regina for that and I'm going to welcome back Jen and Regina to talk about Burnsville Center Village roadways update thank you again and I appreciate you allowing me to have all of my items on one of your meetings it's been really good to be able to talk with you about all these things that are going on from engineering and from Community Development so um we kind of already alluded to what this is about but we here's just a little background on the center Village so in January in 2019 the Redevelopment Vision was approved by the city council and that's the the picture in the lower left shows you know what could the area around the Burnsville Center look like and then when you add all of that potential density and potential housing to a site what does that do to traffic so we did a traffic study in March of 2020 to see what we might need to plan for for public improvements and that was a that was approved like I said in March of 2020. and then to kind of pave the way from an environmental standpoint the Community Development Department worked on an alternative Urban area-wide review auar and that was approved in July of 22 . and then uh just about a year ago Dakota County worked on their Corridor management plan and that was approved about a year ago for looking at traffic and and needs for the quarter um for 2040. and so a couple things came from all of the all of that work from the vision it became the Aldrich extension so I'll show you an image of that in a minute but the Redevelopment Vision showed this extension of Aldrich through the site through the mall site create this sort of Transportation spine that then you could have Redevelopment on either side the traffic study showed that it would be an important connection to be made and then with planning at the mall we we were able to obtain most of the right-of-way not all but most of it so we're kind of setting the stage to get that that extension potentially constructed and then the 35W exit ramp to Buck Hill Road that was also started to be envisioned in the traffic study and then more refined in the county road 42 Vision study and with the county road 42 Vision study we applied for a transportation Economic Development Grant through MnDOT and we were successful so we have funding for that one and as I noted earlier the 35W resurfacing Bridge Project is 2025. the Ted Grant was for construction in 24 and 25 and so it was just sort of an opportunity to partner with MnDOT on that so we have been working on a preliminary design project for both of those two roadways or infrastructure improvements in June we kicked off the two preliminary designs and in the fall we had stakeholder meetings those were all online because our stakeholders well they have businesses here they live everywhere else and so we did online meetings for that and then we were at the principal Festival in firemaster we had had a table inside the mall and and try to get feedback on this and then um we had four PMT or project management team meetings with City County and MnDOT staff so lots of talking and engagement this winter um some of you might have been at the Joint Commission update that we held we had stakeholder meetings again group and then individual we wanted to meet with the property owners that were really adjacent to so we could get their direct feedback without being in a group setting um we were the Regina was at polar Fest we had a virtual open house so we had a website that was interactive and was trying to get feedback on the project and then we've had two PMT meetings so far this year so here's the preliminary design Aldrich extension and just to this is 42 up here Aldrich existing is off the page and so the idea is to have Aldrich cut through the mall property and connect up eventually out to Buck Hill Road and for sake of knowing where we're at here this is the existing Sears building and at the time of the vision the Sears building was vacant and so this was something that was contemplated before you know when the building was already vacant and then here is kind of that cross section if you were driving on the road I've got a little animation um what we have envisioned is that you could have we looked at the traffic volumes and having one lane in each Direction was sufficient um and having it be a tree sort of a Main Street look was something that we got feedback from from a lot of the stakeholders and from the public having a five foot shoulder um is for two reasons it could be on street bikes with Scooters or it just gives room for vehicles to move over get out of the way in case of an emergency vehicle so we couldn't just have an 11 foot Lane and have nowhere for vehicles to go so we do need the shoulder it could be multi-purpose with a bike lane or a scooter lane or just a shoulder and then a really wide Boulevard called it Flex space could be Trees and Landscaping could be benches could be like a pocket park but we have a wide right-of-way through here and so we wanted to use the space not just for street but for having those other amenities and then a really wide Trail so typically our trails are 10 feet we would be proposing 12 feet on each side and that gives retailers the ability to use it as a cafe space or it just gives you more space in general so that extension is unfunded we have no money to build it we have money to get an idea concept um the Redevelopment is is absolutely necessary and we would in no way be forcing Sears or future Sears owner to remove the building and so these plans will sit on a shelf essentially until that Redevelopment happens we're not able to you know condemn or purchase or anything like that so it's got to be a partnership and a collaboration Not only was Sears but with the other mall owners as well there's multiple owners in in the on the property and then the reason for preliminary plans really is it's a starting point to discuss what we what's possible with developers and also if once we have what we think is the vision and a cost well at the end of this we'll have a a pretty good cost estimate we can start to talk about how will we fund it when the opportunity arises what funding opportunities are there what grants are available and how will we do it so we needed to get further along than just lines on a page and start to think about what how it will look and have a little bit more engineering involved so we also have concurrently because they're tied together we have one consultant contract for the 35W exit ramp so kind of walk through how this will work if you're coming south on 35W there'll be a couple of exit Lane options you'll stay to the right so you kind of have to think about driving and upside down state of the radio left on the page stay to the right to go West on 42. and when you get up to the top of the ramp I'll go back you see um this is roadway space and this is gone this green then there's five Lanes there there will be just two um and it'll be right turn only so you come up the ramp and you'll be turning right or if you want to do anything else you'll stay to the left in that exit and you'll be able to go east on on County Road 42 to block Hill Road or to the mall if and so that's the that blue Lane you'll go underneath the existing County Road 42 Bridge that's kind of right next to the the highway and then when you come up and around if you want to get on 42 it's a right turn only so having those two right turns is a more efficient way of having the traffic operate at that signal there will be this roundabout so if you at some point you're choosing you're going to come up and around and go right or you're going to keep going and he goes into the roundabout and you'll go into the mall or you'll keep going to Buck Hill Road we're creating a new pedestrian Crossing that has not been there before so um the reason this works in this location is that we're eliminating so many traffic movements and so many conflict points so it's a safer pedestrian crossing right there and then a new 10-foot Trail is the line in purple I'm showing that there's a potential future connection that's with Redevelopment that's not part of the project so the roundabout and a little driveway is part of the project this road is a future connection with Redevelopment so this one is funded um we got 3.1 million dollars in that Ted Grant and then Dakota County and the city will cost share of the rest we do need right-of-way from the Sears site and we're actively working with them and then MnDOT was going is going to construct this project we're getting them preliminary plans and then we're just giving them to MnDOT and then they'll take it from there so our next steps um we are creating a one-page summary for stakeholders kind of finalize the engagement we're doing a report to the city council in the next month at the Public Works open house on May 25th mark your calendars come and visit us we will be having a table there to talk about where this project landed and and how it ended up and then like I said we'll turn over our preliminary plans to MnDOT they'll complete the final design and then they'll do construction questions on this one and the average Avenue thing would it go all the way to Southcross um no it will go to Buck Hill Road kind of connects out where there's existing driveway connection today and then Buck Hill Road will connect to Southcross okay so the alteridge extension is basically we're going to take the Sears location when Sears is ready when Sears is right now does Sears own that footprint or is there another stakeholder so there's a somebody called ceratage that owns it and they are actively marking it marketing it for sale so we are working with ceratage which is the current owner and if they sell it we will be working with a future owner so the future owner basically we're saying okay you can't use this footprint that's not true so what we're saying is if you choose to use the footprint we are putting Alder to extension on hold until such time as a developer thinks that they don't want to use the building and so Sarah Taj who has the the site for up for sale asked us that question very specifically are you going to force us to build Aldridge and the answer is no this is a wait and see plan you know when they're ready we are ready when they're ready to take the building down we have plans that can go there but if they're not taking the building down Aldrich does not happen and I just want to add a lot of things that have happened with the Burnsville Center it is really dependent on Redevelopment private property owners and what the city has done is positioned ourselves to be ready when they're ready so we have a vision that helps to guide the use of the the property we have a traffic study that helps to determine what improvements are needed we did the auar which is the Environmental document that kind of clears the way to have high density we've looked at sewer capacity in that document water capacity so we know we can support it so the city is kind of Paving the way for that and then Regina if you want to talk about Tiff we have oh and Zoning to yeah so the city we re-guided and rezoned not only the Burnsville Center property but the area north off of County Road 42 all the way up to McAndrews and then West to County Road 5. we rezone that to mixed use to before it was zoned business where you could basically just have commercial type uses retail grocery stores things like that now you can have things like housing and those businesses as well so it gives more flexibility to to Future developers and clears out those entitlements so rezoned re-guided and then we did seek special legislation took us three years to get but we were successful in determining the Burnsville Center proper area to be considered a tax increment financing District so what will happen when that area is activated and development happens any will activate the district and then any of those property taxes that would have just gone to like the General Pool will stay within that area and can be used within that area for to make improvements for things like parking structure Street lighting sidewalks roadways and can help contribute to that and and so we we don't have any active projects right now for things like housing or higher density so when we do have something that will increase the tax base in that area that's when we'll activate the the Tiff District so it's it has potential we've seen other Regional malls within the area a lot of activity happening around Rosedale and Ridgedale and Southdale and and we've certainly put those tools in place like Jen said and cleared any barriers for developers to to come to Burnsville we're we're ready to mentioned that at a kill in 42 ethopia pedestrian Crossing if I understand that correctly at 42 yes so when this purple pinky line here is a new Trail and then it we have a set crossing here a 42. is is there because I can't recall all sidewalk from the 35W exit like towards Target in that area there is a sidewalk right now you can kind of see there's a crossing of the bridge on 35 and then there's this um crosswalk across that large ramp and then it continues but it's a narrow sidewalk yeah and so that was in the multimodal presentation I gave we're studying widening so the the county on all their County Roads wants no more sidewalks they want to have 10 foot Trails so we're studying replacing those sidewalks with 10 foot Trails again no funding we're just studying to see how much will it cost that we're ready for funding opportunities but there is a sidewalk for them to get to if that's the question they're not going to be just sort of dumped into a ramp [Laughter] any other questions or comments all right um again no femoral action is required on this we appreciate the information that thank you both of you have shared tonight um and I'll welcome you back for the miscellaneous part of our agenda I'm just kidding I have no comment on that people from May 1st 2023 um at this time I would like to request a call for adjournment if there's nothing else from staff I move to adjourn second all right all in favor aye aye anybody opposed want to stay later tonight nope okay look at that let's adjourn and have a lovely evening everybody