I will call us to order yes not yet I need two more I'm just kidding counc Beck's back there she'll come okay yeah first ke okay okay I'll call our meeting to order and first up our opening comments by Christian Simmons hello again Christian Simmons Chief transformation officer um Welcome to our second mini budget work session for fy2 um I like to kick these I I'm I'm gonna keep kicking these off by saying that the goal of these is to meet your need for detail and context going into fiscal year 25 prior to the late summer before we bring you the recommended budget um so last time two weeks ago we reviewed the fiscal year 25 Target budget in the general fund um and then you had a brief window into environmental services and sort of some of their introductory work with uh PBB priority based budgeting um since then I've spoken with almost all of you have gotten around to most of you um and I want to thank you for your engagement and comments please keep sharing them sending them to me when you think of things um it's really helpful to hear your needs and perspectives one priority that's consistently risen to the top in those conversations which is really no surprise is Public Safety and police in particular and so we thought that today it might be prudent to do our next PBB Deep dive with the police department and they were prepared and able to visit with you at this early stage I had only called in like four favors just kidding um so you'll hear about how it's going for them with PBB um and I really like you to listen for how they're translating their existing divisional structure to the priority based program structure framework remember my like corny Pizza example about like it's not pepperonis and it's not pizza boxes it's pizza slices so um police has a ton of Divisions like many yeah I know I'm making fun of my own self um they have a ton of Divisions so it's it's been a they were one of our pilot departments and and it's been a process for them to get those levels right so I'm interested in what you think about those um so we'll hear about how that process is making it easier and more clear for them to communicate about specific types of needs and priorities not just the flashy ones that we often see but some of the the back room stuff too and you'll get a high level Peak into their fiscal year 25 budget priorities too which I'm sure you'll be interested in want to provide some feedback on um and so with that I think I'm going to kick it off and I'll come back at the end um but I'm going to introduce Keith Norris assistant Police director did I say Norris I'm sorry Mr Norris Keith Morris to talk to you about physical year 25 ignore me CH how many years ago did I hire you Keith seven six it's been a few it's been a few now they say just don't call me late to dinner and call me whatever else you want so thank you uh Christian for the opportunity to come and and talk through our priority based budget process uh it was it's been good to get to know uh the contractor that's working on this and the support by the lab uh it's kind of caused us to look at the way we structure ourselves and how this might supplement uh the information that we already have available so we wanted to kind of begin with the end in mind and how we went about this and uh so I'll just I'll go through our methodology and our programs before we get to our uh fy2 considerations uh but for us you know in terms of our our process and what we went through we kind of looked at it from you know what are our priorities going into this what do we what does prior of budgeting offer us relative to the information that we already have available and getting uh the information we already have available out and make sure it's clear to those that are looking at our our budget documents so one of the things that we wanted to do was uh to enhance public transparency we have a lot of information the way that our budget is structured is very complicated thank you um and so the question was how do we how do we make that more accessible how do we enhance transparency by making that information accessible uh so that was one of the priorities for us uh also we wanted to fit our operational structure we have a a very Dynamic operational structure a lot of different teams uh that are doing a lot of different things and then contributing to the mission of other teams and so question is how do we reflect those programs of those teams and then show uh the Synergy between those teams and how they work together uh so that was uh a big part of it as well and and then two uh you Iz resource acts their expertise and what they've done uh together with other cities and not try to duplicate that work uh what we had seen had been done in other cities kind of told us kind of what the end goal maybe would be and so we try to take that into consideration as we were going through our priorities so our uh considerations that we had um relative to our goals uh we have a a Personnel Reliant Department we have 2400 um positions 77% of our budget is Personnel uh so that's a big part of the considerations and going through this and then I mentioned our complex budget structure we have 160 individual budgets within our Police Department budget and so that's that was a consideration there's a lot of detail in there that is just we felt not always accessible to those that are looking uh at our budget as at our requests and that kind of thing and so we looked at priority based budgeting as an opportunity to simplify that um and provide another level of categorization if you will we also have a complex organizational structure because our budget is based on somewhat to our org chart and so you see the picture that's our organizational chart uh and so our our or chart and our budget is kind of already broken up into programs so the question was do we want 160 or 145 programs or do we want to break those down in a way that makes it more accessible to those that are reviewing our budget and then also to uh with regard to our key performance indicators and our strategic plan uh we wanted to look at how we're measuring programs and so we're in the process of doing a a key performance indicator working group internally to look at how we measure things and and so for us we wanted these things to be linked together and so when we make requests for them to be based on data and so looking at the 150 or 200 different indicators that we have internally all the data that we track to make sure it connects and so we can answer questions when it comes to our programs so our plan of action uh was to do functional grouping and and there was a question for for us how would we go about doing that how do we group together the functions within the department in a way that achieved all those goals so we performed a high level Time study and so we met with you know 25 plus divisions uh the captains and the commanders to go through uh their operations and to categorize into the programs that we had selected so we have roughly 35 programs uh and so we met with them to say hey how much time do you spend in these different programs and then we also ask for feedback we ask hey do these programs reflect our operations and how we function uh and so it provided an opportunity both for them to review what it was we were trying to do and give that feedback and make sure that we weren't just doing it in one side of the organization but it also allowed us to get the data and kind of come to an understanding about how it mixed with our programs again we also are looking at performance framework and ask how it's going to be measured and and we've been in communication with the lab for we stat uh in terms of how that looks what our process looks like and we'll continue to do that as we're in the early stages of that process and then there was the massive uh part of categorizing costs and so we use the the time survey to assignment FTE so the the resource act website allows you to take all of your FTE and assign programs to them and so you can go into a whole lot of detail on what it is that you're doing and so we had we had to go through and and categorize 2400 um different employees and so it allows you to do that in groups uh but that time survey really allowed us to take that data uh and and make sure that we were uh capturing that in in the way that it appears in the system so and what you see there uh really is kind of we talk about the functional grouping our data our budget data is broken down I said into 160 plus different centers and so our community oriented policing programs which you're familiar with our school resource officers our neighborhood Patrol officers that sort of thing those each have individual budgets and so you can see uh what's inside of the community or oriented policing programs because we can break it down further than what's just the cost of that individual program so Community oriented policing programs sets right now at about 14.7 based on the 24 budget data but as you see the the costs that are included in in the school resource unit in the neighborhood Patrol officers those individual budget centers breaks down further and so it really supplements our available budget data and I think in a nice way so that as we are providing data out to uh the public it it gives a a way to break down and go into layers so this is our community type uh programs uh and so we have 22 of those we end up with 35 overall and so these are the programs that are Community facing I'm make sure I say say that right those are the ones that are in the community uh and so we have our calls for service non- emergency response our crimes against persons investigations and so the thing that I said about looking at how we measure uh our programs is to some degree how we structured our program so crimes against persons uh investigations has to do with our crime report because we put a crime report out and so we group those functionally the teams that are doing that and those that are contributing to that in other areas of the department uh in that program so that it links to the reporting data that we put out so as we look at that budget data relative to other data that we're putting out it links together you also see Community oriented policing programs there preventative Patrol uh evidence investigation 911 Communications emergency calls uh strategic response and so individually these represent uh all of our front facing that was the one of our big challenges that we face is how do we repres our whole department in a way um that make sure that we don't leave anything out and the feedback that we got from captains and commanders was very positive in the way that we did that I'll pause here if there's any questions in terms of the programs that we we have in this in this part yeah just curious crimes against Society investigations what is that so crimes against uh Society is our uh it's narcotics prostitution the prostitution and so you'll see in our in our crime report that's broken down in there so you can see our crimes against and so these are the resources that are going towards those coun Hill oh sorry goad Martinez Keith is this for 2025 or is this I'm sorry 2024 or is this our current budget uh I believe this is 2024 information that was loaded into resource X's um website so there that budget data was was loaded in and then we categorized it based on that data okay sorry I guess a question is this actuals or is this what budget budget budget okay yes maybe this is not the time to ask either but you maybe Chief will you go through different divisions and talk about budgeting for those like the Hope team is kind of what I want to get at do we need to talk about that now or you going to address that in a little bit okay you go back one slide please Keith yeah thank you yeah I do that right no I know that but that's not a lot we're spending 661 th000 only on Hope team so thank you for this question because I I want to explain our methodology a little clear here so uh in our governance um partially in our governance programs when we went through uh and allocated positions this is the amount of time that they're dedicated to this specific program but there's other police Community part Partnerships uh that they'll dedicate time to and different other things where they we made sure that if they spend any time in any of those other programs from an FTE standpoint we're doing that on the individual basis so this is just in this part of the program so they they would be contributing again to our police Community um our police Community Partnerships and some of those other uh calls for service that kind of thing I think that's where I need clarification just in general on how these programs all work together and how Personnel works together because when I look at it it's you know we're trying to address homelessness I think I think at policy level the entire council is interested in the quality of life um and so I have a hard time with the correlation between you know that dollar amount what we're actually doing on the ground and what directions home is doing so I think during the budgeting process if we could tie that all together that would give a better picture for what we're spending our money on what the return of that investment is on and if we need to allocate more funds for that for the next fiscal year absolutely and and there just it's a good question that's something we can probably send out is what's the breakdown in these individual programs in terms of who's contributing to them and what they are uh the just the again the data we wanted to supplement the data with the way we were structuring the programs knowing that it's not the whole picture there's the data on those individual programs and how they contribute to it and so we had I don't know that we've done that effectively here wanted to share our methodology the approach we went into it so that we can answer questions with the data as they come out Carlos I think and then Martinez sorry and then go back to Carlos so I just wanted to get a better understanding of the difference between police and commun the next like police and Community Partnerships and and partners with a shared Mission sounds come somewhat similar I'm sure it's not but sure sure police Community Partnerships are are are are our officers doing the work in the uh in the community partners with a shared Mission are the funds that go out into the community to the AG agencies so a lot of times they're working together and so our officers are working with those agencies but we segmented out our partners with the shared Mission because that's those contracts that are going out we measure them separately and differently uh and so those are just the external contracts those are not any Personnel necessarily um that are sense ccpd money yes that's ccpd money yes Carlos Keith you mentioned this and I don't mean to do a deep dive if uh you know assistant chief Aldridge is going to go into this I can wait till then but uh CM Hill mentioned you know the Hope unit right and you talked about Partnerships the fire department has some presence within the Hope unit so where are they funded okay all right yeah so fire has their own hope team budget in the fire department's budget um and Code Compliance I think has a piece of the Hope team too so part of priority based budgeting the challenge now is that only some departments are participating right so this is police's piece of the Hope team what we will do in the lab once budget requests are rolling in for those who are not participating in priority based budgeting yet we will load the data for the whole hope team like for those programs like the Hope team that are multi-departmental we'll load it so that when you see it by program that you'll see the whole picture and we can divide it out for you but your question about where it's funded the the fire department's part of the hot team is funded in the fire department okay so later as we delve further into the budget process we'll get I think a clearer picture then of that total yes okay yeah for those for those programs that are multi-departmental where some maybe are participating in this process and some are not we will will load those individual programs with the data that you'll need to see the whole picture okay thank you and then this last question and again uh you know Chief ALR you tell me if you know to park it and wait for you to answer this but where uh Within these categories uh of you know the program types if we're under Community here would um say enforcement as it pertains to let's say preventative Patrol and traffic enforcement for instance where within the budget would enforcement of manyi Banks and ATVs be on on public streets where they're not legal yeah do I need to repeat that yeah so enforce enforcement of many bikes is that is that what I heard yeah those non- street legal you know conveyances right manyi bikes and ATVs so it' be traffic enforcement uh and so uh the traffic enforcement is not just that part of our department because there is a division for or actually a unit for traffic enforcement we also captured data from the individual Patrol divisions how much time are you spending on traffic enforcement so that we can reflect that in the cost of the programs as well yeah uh eventually what I'd like to see is uh do we have enough resources to fund you know those efforts right I mean even beyond our entertainment districts where we enforce that it's like the proverbial balloon you squeeze it and guess where they go the neighboring neighborhoods I'm getting more complaints about that okay so I want to make sure that we're funded adequately to take care of it in total thank you Gina um my question is for Christian the more I look at what's going on here and I really want to commend police for just breaking this all down but my my question to you is twofold uh as we're seeing how the numbers add up are we also TR up the outcomes of the actual work uh do you anticipate identifying redundancy because if you've got hope in this department this department and that department you at at some point I think you're going to be doing some pairing away so talk about that yes I'm glad you said that that is exactly the goal of priority based budgeting and overlaid with organizational performance measurement through the fort wor stat program which housed in the lab and some you know and other data analysis functions that are happening um and so the goal with uh PBB is to look at things by program so that we can draw those apples apples comparisons um and synthesize programs across the organization and see where there are duplicative efforts uh see where we can pivot base budget resources not just decision packages adding but look in the base budget and say you're working on this you're working on this we can work together we can pivot we can try something new as a pilot with existing resources rather than always having to come to the table with additional resources so yes that's exactly the goal so between priority based budgeting um a new program for or Stat organizational performance measurement and the introduction of really robust data analytics all three of those will sort of marry together for exactly what you're talking about anybody else yes Janette I just want to add to Carlos's comments because we have a lot of uh young children riding these ATVs at parks um so what do we are we planning for any educational campaigns or communication somewhere for you know to try to reduce traffic enforcement as it relates to ATVs and maybe maybe even street parking because that's another big issue so I might thank you J I might direct us away from those specifics just so get through the budget presentation and I know PD is taking notes because some of these definitely need to be addressed um more fully especially as anticipation if you're going to need to increase some of these line items in next year's budget okay chief you writing it on top of your head here yeah got it okay thank you very much thank you all good feedback uh I'll move to the the next slide just to keep us going here and as questions come in we'll just keep going so we do have uh 13 uh what's called governance program types and and these are our internal facing and So you you're familiar with recruit training uh our Fleet Maintenance Labor Management was a program that resource X had suggested that we kept uh administrative support we grouped together our our position management functions our budget and procurement into one program and and the thing I'll say is that we anticipated possibility of splitting or adding programs uh as we went along to see how our programs uh functioned with the other programs and the and the priorities as this process went forward uh so if there's need to split programs out that's something that we anticipated in the future uh and so these these represent our internal programs Professional Standards is there officer Wellness which is one of our priorities is also represented as well that was it was a good part of the conversations that we had with uh captains and commanders and looking at officer Wellness as a priority uh and so these are our our internal or our governance program types so uh and again I'll just I'll pause here for just a moment but as we break down uh everybody is contributing to and every all the different centers that we have the different budget centers we have everybody has their own budget so they're doing their own procurement working through our administrative support teams we have two commands that are dedic dedicated to the entire department uh and so those U my command and and the other assistant director's command support the admins and the officers in the field to do their procurement but we represented that and we showed that administrative support uh contribution uh through this process so that we knew what activities we going where just so I'm clear so when you've got like North command South Division admin all of those I don't see I guess I a little I don't understand I don't see everything on there right like you see North command South Division are we talking North command and South command or are we talking South Division West Division East Division North Division so yes so there's 84 more that I didn't include because it would have gone well below it and this is really just to to demonstrate that property based budgeting supplements the data that we already have so on the left side you see the administrative support that's that one program this is on the right side is all the budget data we already have and so in connecting the two we can show uh at a higher level the data that we already had okay and so when you talk about like um for example police South Division admin $400,000 what would what is that and I'm not looking for line items but just generally speaking when when you say admin what does that look like so there are some of its allocations we broke down the allocation some of it is position management there's a lot of position management tell me what allocations are uh so uh the allocations that are given to us by um the city in terms of our charges for it uh the cost for the IT department for um for human resources and different things like that the administrative costs are there as well so we broke those down within that okay and so each command help me follow the flow so we'll set a budget here for say PD's total it department or budget right and so we'll say it's a million dollar and then you internally break that down by division or command or whatever unit of measurement and it's just for internal um bookkeeping correct yeah so each each division so say uh South Division um we met with them and say how much time are is your personnel spending on administrative support functions so working with position management employment services and our so our p pdhr in procurement with technology that kind of thing so it's their time and then also the the breakdown of our operating maintenance costs um based on that as well so youall don't have like a centralized procurement for the Department we we have a department that facilitates it because we we have uh roughly 60 people that serve uh the other 2400 and that's for all of our um administrative support teams and so we facilitate the um the policies and the procedures to make sure that it happens we have administrative technicians and administrative assistance in the field uh that do that in those areas okay thank you okay so with that I will uh I'll invite the talent to the stage and uh not at all thank you Keith uh executive assistant chief Robert Aldridge for police department so we're going to take a very shallow dive today in a very small Kitty pool um because the real reality is is that we're at the very beginning stages of our budget process however we kind of want you guys to know our overarching themes how we came to kind of the philosophy of what we're going to be using this year um because I want to set this out and set the record straight right now we have 233 vacancies so with 233 vacancies it's going to be very challenging to ask for an overarching ask on the police side if I can't fill the vacancies and so we're going to we're going to be very modest in our ass this year we're probably going to have to piece you know make partial programs or partial positions for certain areas um but I also want you guys to know that whenever we came to you I think it was in 2024 budget and said we'd be fully staed by 2026 September of 2026 we're still on on Pace to do that and so you know we're still putting Academy classes through we're still getting you know roughly around a thousand applicants every time we open up the application um and so we're still we're we're we're making way through you know a very muddy field um but with the this year's budget one thing that we want to do is since we're going to be a little bit light on our our position ask is have Force multipliers and so some of you guys have visited the real time crime Center uh if you haven't please let me know I love to set up an appointment with you so you can go walk through and see what they do but you guys understand how much the the real-time crime Center supports our Patrol officers and so that's really kind of the big deal is that we want to try and help Patrol as much as we can because really that's they carry the line share of the vacancies in our department they're the biggest operational unit that we have and so it's only you know normal that they would carry most of the vacancy uh we do Target it overtime details we have special operating funds we have other overtime funds available that whenever issues come up like minibikes motorbikes uh issues in the parks that we can throw people at it at a very short short amount of time and a quick turnaround and address those issues one by one um and uh in all honesty whenever we have the street takeovers that's the same thing that we do uh we put overtime events together uh we use the overtime funds for West 7th for the entertainment districts we do it for the Stockyards um and so we're still going to continue to do that to help Shore up some of the you know the lacking uh presence we have in our Patrol areas and our Partnerships you guys know last year that we started opening up ccpd programming for external departments to ask for request a lot of those requests are are tied to Crime reduction strategies whether it's Code Compliance whether it's Parks um there are a lot of different programs that are there that actually help the police uh without the police having to be involved so we surely want to support our officer wellness program uh we it's it's in its infancy because it was approved last year um but the two person unit that we have is is being extremely overwhelmed with the Positive responses that we've had with the program in such a short amount of time so we want to make sure that we have the appropriate personnel to deal with our our troops on the ground uh we want to actually increase our admin capacity uh because over the years we've concentrated really hard on our sworn side of things and uh we have a lot of in our admin side uh Keith and his team has done really good job and our other Admin Professional staff has the problem is we're asking a lot of that staff to do a couple of different jobs to try and make sure you know we keep going down the right path and so you know we talked about the sworn the Staffing of the sworn vacancies um I think you know we put in decision packages if I'm not mistaken I think we asked for 16 positions for sworn side that number may change it may go up may go down uh but that's kind of where we're at right now um you know our goal is to be good stewards of the money our goal is to be able to be realistic to be able to fill the positions that we have and not over askk for things that we're not going to be able to deliver on so with that I'll answer any questions can you elaborate on um Support Officer wellness and what that I know you said you're very early in the budget but what we can anticipate being brought to us as part of that so we asked for another officer position and a sergeant position because right now the supervisor over the wellness unit is being supervised by another sergeant doing dual Duty the same for the increased admin capacity what does that mean um how many positions do we have for admin uh on the civilian side there's I think there's uh between 16 and 20 that we're asking for I think eight or 10 of them are in the admin capacity yeah not necessarily for cheese but U thank you for this and thank you Keith and um Christian this is very helpful these little many budget sessions it's also confusing um so like with the 84 other programs that were hidden before we come to these meetings if we could get I hate to ask for it but a budget that's broken down by program by CA Center for each department so we can have a a really good picture of what we're talking about before we walk into these sessions that would be helpful for me um and then we could ask questions about what that program oper how that program operates and what it does to enhance the city of for we can do that with fiscal year 24 budget data current year data does that work since they're still developing fiscal year 25 so current year programs current year budget yes as long as it's going to correlate to what we're doing for the 2025 budget proc it'll give you the context for like where we are now perfect that's great thank you Chief oh goad Jared yeah just on a budget goal um I understand the need to fill the sworn vacancies this may not necessarily be a budget goal maybe operational goal that fits into the budget but I know traffic enforcement was brought up and I know last budget I brought it up and we couldn't really necessarily accomplish that goal last year to the degree I was advocating just want to know kind of what yall thinking this year on traffic enforcement and how youall plan to either shift resources or request more resources to try to address that so I mean it it's probably going to be easier to shift some resources to try and help address that than it is add resources and I will tell you standing right here if I could increase our staffing this year by 200 I would um we had decision packages for over 63 positions that people had asked for and so for us to have to sit down and kind of prioritize you know what we think is really valuable for us in the short term knowing that we're going to probably have a bigger ass next year for some of those things uh I'll be honest with you traffic probably is going to be a next year ask not so much a 2025 ask a 2026 ask um and so we're going to rely heavily on the npos and and help supplement traffic on some of those details and I'll I'll add to that that uh we've talked about uh overtime details uh in in working with uh Council on asset forfeiture and shifting some Grant funds around we already do some overtime details they're uh the grant funded ones are targeted towards certain areas but in terms of uh adding that into ccpd uh looking at potentially an overtime detail uh program within that for traffic so that we can be uh responsive and targeted I like that idea and it also helps with the visibility piece and absolutely I mean it's much needed yes I would agree any other questions for chief thank you Chief okay thank you again to police for doing um that early Deep dive I know it's a little different for everyone um I don't know what's happening to my screen can you advance my slide maybe let's see I can do it oh okay um I'm going to wrap this up by saying that I I hope I'm glad you said helpful before confusing I know it's weird like it's it's okay if it feels a little clunky and new it's different right to do the PBB thing part of the reason that we're doing these is to like sort of cast a net and see what sticks what you like about the way this is being presented presented what detail is helpful what's too much what's too little um and I think you'll you'll begin to see the pay offer priority based budgeting as we continue to move through the year educating you in waves on programs and what they cost um and how well aligned they are with your priorities and how well they're performing to council member Bon's um point so it will enable you to ask rather than like what else can we do like what else can we do rather you can say like should we still be doing XYZ or like how how are those two departments working together on that like it it enables us to ask some different questions um and of course in the lab we want to be in a position of protecting and defending the taxpayer by looking at existing programs and resources as sort of the first opportunity to Pivot or explore rather than just continuing to add to so that's where we're going with priority based budgeting um so we're going to keep doing these mini Department previews I like the idea about sending more context and so I'll work with the forth lab team on that um we should have already I'm looking at people to nod their head or not at me or cry at what I'm asking um I think we should already have program inventories for all nine participating departments with fiscal year 24 costs and so um we'll work on sending that out in a in a way that's helpful um okay so we're scheduled again on May 7th uh what we're going to do on May 7th unless you think this is a bad idea and you can tell me um we're going to run through scenarios for the tax rates because we are right now looking at um the preliminary roles we've gotten Terren today um Parker and looking at Brady I think we've gotten them all and so yep good good um and so we'll have data for you on May 7th with some like sort of Baseline optimistic pessimistic projections on what some of the property tax rate scenarios might look like um and we'll do a focus also on Pago because um obviously that's a huge part of the tax rate and so we can look at opportunities to carve more out of om andm for pgo or and you know maybe we'll have a preliminary value of what a penny is like and again this is these are early but we can start having conversations around pigo infrastructure um existing buckets of pigo and reordering some of that so that's the plan for May 7th I think we have a 10m session that day so we'll have lots of time together in the morning is there anything else you would like to do May 7th or yeah Gina I I just want to number one commend you for the energy you bring to this confer ation I I promise you if you adhere to the request from council member Hill you will see greater efficiencies from this body because what happens when and I don't know why staff does this I don't meet with folk without information sending me ahead of time because I really do need to know what they're going to be talking about but if we're given information before we get here it gives us time to create our own questions and your work will be easier because right now everybody Tak notes is going to rely on me wondering what comes in my head next I'm going to go to bed I'm going to forget but I'm going to bring it up right at this same body where as it could have been dealt with and so please please give us information I promise you we won't do anything you know we'll we'll just read it but uh it it's thank you for bringing that up it's very important yes thank you I think that makes a ton of sense thanks Hill and then when we run through the tax rate scenarios can we make sure that we're talking about EMS and how that's going to impact the budget for 2025 and then the ongoing conversation of the street maintenance fee if we did not go that route what options do we have and how does that impact the budget yes thank you Jared um thank you and thanks for the presentation I know it's it it's helpful and it's also a bit wonky because not all departments are participating so you can't really aggregate the programs the city yet but I look forward to that day I like the direction and so this was really helpful I think in preparation for next meeting I don't you can tell me this is a terrible idea but I think sometimes I have those um I think it might be helpful in the tax rate discussion also talk about the exemptions I know we just talked about child care today and then the um over 65 in disability exemption and whether or not we entertain increasing that which I personally think we should but it sounds like that would also impact the revenue and tax rate so I would like to maybe discuss that next time but if that doesn't fit with kind of the math then we can talk about it another date but I would like to I think I think we'll be able to fold it in to that discussion we're actually coming the afternoon of May 7th with an over 65 and disabled exemption presentation that we talk about see um yeah so we talk about the fiscal impact of of um increasing it again maybe from 60 to 80 you know you went from 40 to 60 last year so um I think we should be able to fold it in by the morning of council if you could just provide us either um before May 7th or at the May 7th meeting um I know we will have several of these over the course of of developing the agenda um and there'll be many departments and so if you could just give us the rough schedule of what we're going to be discussing and when so that way it will help us not derail um with questions if we know whatever we're looking for is coming up at at a future meeting you're saying you want me to plan ahead yes yes got it okay thank you um Macy okay um and this came out of you know the Hope line item is there a way maybe it's an IR maybe it doesn't have to be a full budget session but how can we look at big picture how much funding is going into directions home how much are we spending on the Hope team and kind of do an analysis of are we getting are we reaching the goals we want to with the amount of money we're allotting across all departments to solve homelessness on that side yeah so Roi for current investment and are we just moving the problem around or working on the root caused got it thank you okay mhm any other questions no thank you Christian thank you that's all for to council that was the last of our items on budget work session any future gen items that haven't been discussed already okay then meeting is