[Music] [Music] down. Hey [Music] Black. [Music] butter. [Music] [Music] [Music] out. [Music] [Music] [Music] you so much for joining. >> Leave. I'm going to have you second my motion. Is that okay? >> Okay. >> Good evening every second. >> All right. >> Thank you so very much for joining us here in person and for those who are watching us online for the September 22nd business meeting of the Charlotte City Council. I'd like to get started with first our introductions around the dis and we'll start with Miss Amira. >> Good evening and welcome Dimple Amira at large. >> Good evening. I'm Dr. Victoria Watlington. I have the pleasure of serving you as a council member at large. >> Good evening. Lana Mayfield, council member at large. >> Edwin Peacock, District 6. >> Ed Driggs, District 7. >> Malcolm Grim, District 2. >> By LS, mayor. >> Marcus Jones, city manager. >> Good evening, everyone. James Mitchell at large. >> Renee Johnson, District 4. >> Anthony Fox, interim city attorney. >> Good evening. Stephanie Kelly, city clerk. >> Before we move to the invocation this evening Mhm. >> I'd like to recognize that tonight marks 30 days since Arena was tragically killed on one of our train systems. You know, both any one of us that have been mothers, even if you've done that in a way that matters, I think we all understand that our hearts go out to her and to her family and that tragedy can sometimes good people do not really actually have the ability to become what who they are. So I'd like to say before as our invocation tonight that we take a moment of silence and just remember Arena has been a part of us and what we can do better to make it better. So if you would bow your heads for us for a moment. Thank you. Dear God, please help us understand what you have taken and what you may make of her because going to heaven is not something that we thought was things that she would do. We looked at her and said, "Look at how much she can live and how much she can grow." But now that growth belongs to you, God, let us please be aware that you have her in your hands. I ask you for that peace and presence. Amen. >> Amen. >> All right. Um I want to take a moment um again as we begin with our invocation. I think I think that you know that all of us are here and what we do in terms of what we're trying to achieve is that we have a pledge of allegiance and we have scouts that come and help us do this process. I'm going to ask Mr. Peacock to address the scouts and get them ready for our pledge of allegiance. >> We have tonight troop one from Holy Comforter Episcopal Church would like for these three gentlemen to come down and lead us. >> All right. >> Okay. If everyone you if you choose to stand, please do for the pledge of allegiance. >> We'll just come on down here right here. >> Face the flag. >> Face the flag. >> Y'all lead us off. >> Lead us off. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you all. >> Thank you very much. >> I'll stick around as long as you want. Okay. >> Go home and get something done pleasant, more pleasant than this. So, thank you very much again. So, we just So um um so now we have had our pledge of allegiance. I want to say that um we're going to start with our formal agenda consideration of our cons agenda. And so with that, Mr. Jones, do we have anyone? Oh, Miss Marie, thank you very much. >> Good evening. Thank you. >> Let's lead us in the way of consent agenda Q's and A's. >> Thank you. Thank you. And I've had an opportunity to speak with several of you this evening, but at this time I'd like to take any other questions that you have or information on the consent items. >> Miss Mayfield. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Marie, you I do appreciate you giving a response, but I do warn us to highlight 36, 37, and 38 for a question that I have, as well as I'll ask a business question later, but specifically around 36, 37, and 38. Mayor. All right. So, Miss Mayfield, let me make sure that I've got this. I hear some I hear music. Um you were again if you would repeat that you wanted to have a conserate discussion for 36 37 and 38 >> 36 >> but I can speak 37 and 38 but I can speak to them at >> one m at one time. >> Okay. Would you go ahead and want to do that now? >> Thank you madame mayor. So Marie thank you. I asked a question cuz for number 36, 37, and third 38, which are pretty much thorn water repair and improvement projects. I noticed that one particular bid bidder on-site development has re tonight is approving each of these individually with the same company. So, I was wondering regarding how are we looking at bids to try to have as equitable of dispersement of tax dollars, as many opportunities as possible, knowing that we do generally look at lowest and most responsive with the focus being on lowest bid. So, I did want to have a chance for clarification on that. >> Thank you. And since this is a a construction contract to your point, yes ma'am, the law requires us to take the lowest responsive bidder. Um, storm water has done several things like you said to mix up the opportunities to be able to I shouldn't say mix up to variate the opportunities to make smaller bids and things to have opportunities for different vendors to bid. But for this like you mentioned it was three separate opportunities to bid and for each one of those separately that vendor was the lowest responsible bidder responsib. >> So Mr. Manager of which I when we have our chance for council comments I would say I think I have we have an opportunity to speak with the attorney's office. We're working on a separate issue, but when we look at most responsive and that breakdown actually look like because if we have an opportunity for some of these partners where they potentially in what is submitted to council a higher wage per se, then I think that to me falls more in responsive versus the focus being on lowest better. Because when we look at the totality of just these three items, one of them is over four 4,500. Another one's over 4,700 and the third is over 2,200. So I appreciate the fact that they submitted the lowest bid, but you also know I've questioned over the years if there are amendments. What do what is the tracking on those dollar amounts? And are we do we have an opportunity to imagine responsiveness in a different way to actually address the needs in community. Thank you, Marie. Thank you, Madam Mayor. >> All right. Thank you very much. Are there any other questions regarding the consent agenda items for a separate vote? >> Hearing none. All in. May I have a motion to approve consent agenda items 24 through 52, including those that Miss Mayfield um addressed? So move >> second. I >> have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? >> Hearing none. All in favor, please raise your hands. All right. Thank you very much. Anyone opposed? >> Thank you. So before we move to our next step, I want to go ahead and begin to recognize that we have some awards and recognitions today. Um one of the very first ones I'd like to wish a happy new year to our Jewish community and any one of those that are celebrating Rashashana coming up. I will have the opportunity to join the temple tomorrow to be a part of their program and I'm excited about that. But also in addition, we have a proclamation on National Suicide Prevention Month as well as a proclamation for >> um Miss Johnson awareness for >> for national concussion awareness >> and concussion awareness. So we'll start with Mr. Peacock for the suicide refer reference and Miss Johnson and follow that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um, ladies and gentlemen, uh, this joint proclamation, whereas suicide and and suicide attempts affect the health and the well-being of families, friends, loved ones, co-workers in the community. And whereas suicide especially affects our young people with suicide being the second leading cause of death for people ages 10 to 34, for black for young black males aged 10 to 24, and on college campuses. It is also the number one cause of death for police officers not in the line of duty. hand. Whereas, according to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, suicide is the 11th leading cause of death in the US and is the most preventable kind of death and almost any positive action that may save a life. Half of those who died by suicide had a diagnosible mental health condition at the time of their death. And research showed that 90% experienced symptoms. And whereas in 2023, 49,316 Americans died by suicide, with men being 3.8 times more likely to do so than women, with firearms accounting for 55.36% of all suicide deaths. Whereas the stigma around mental health is the number one reason people won't seek help and fuels suicide rates, suicide is a global health crisis, not a personal character flaw. And whereas mental health conditions and suicidality work against suicide prevention by discouraging persons at risk from seeking life-saving help, it further traumatizes survivors of suicides loss and people with lived experience of suicide. And whereas organizations like the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, the Wellness Action Recovery, Mental Health America, and others continue to work to help those suffering in silence and prevent suicide through advocacy, education, and action. Now therefore, we v, Alexander Lyles, the mayor of Charlotte, Mark Jerrell, chair of the Meckllinburgg County Board of Commissioners, do hereby proclaim the month of September 2025 as the National Suicide Prevention Month in Charlotte and Meckllinburgg and urge all citizens to honor this observance as witnessed by our hands here, the official seals of the city of Charlotte and Meckllinmberg County. Thank you, Mrs. Mayor. >> Thank you, Mr. Peacock, Miss Johnson. >> Thank you so much. So, as most or many of you know that I'm an advocate for brain injury survivors um and we do recognize brain injury in March and thank you for that opportunity for the past five years. This month is actually um concussion awareness month. And many of us don't associate concussion as a a brain injury, but they are a brain injury and they can be life-changing. And in this city, I think it's important, and I've said this before, that we are leaders in recognizing it and the awareness with the sports teams that we have, the Panthers, right? The the Hornets and the Charlotte FC. And actually, if you know, Dale Nhard Jr., he retired because of a concussion because of concussion. So, um, also Keith Lamont Scott, his his wife was saying he has a TBI. So, it's up to all of us to be aware of that because one and four individuals have suffered a head injury. So, I'm honored today to read this. Um, and I would be presenting it to Tracy Suggs with Protect Your Skull Organization, but he was coming at 6:30. So, because we normally start this meeting at 6:30, so I apologize for that. Whereas concussions are a form of mild traumatic brain injury. And the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, CDC, estimates that more than 2.8 8 million Americans sustain a TBI each year with concussions making up the majority of these injuries. And whereas an estimated 5.3 million Americans live with a long-term disability related to brain injury and concussions can lead to persistent symptoms such as headaches, memory loss, difficulty concentrating, depression, and an increased risk of suicide. And whereas children and adolescence are particularly high risk with the CDC estimating that nearly 15% of high school students report at least one sports or recreation related concussion each year. And multiple concussions may increase the likelihood of long-term neurological and psychological effects. And whereas research shows that concussions affect not only athletes but also survivors of falls, motor vehicle crashes, domestic violence, and military service with concussions recognized as a signature injury of service members returning from combat. And whereas studies published in the Journal of American Medical Association confirm that individuals with a history of concussion or mild brain injury may have twice the risk of suicide compared to those without such injuries, underscoring the urgent need for prevention, early diagnosis, and support. And whereas raising public awareness of concussions as traumatic brain injury is essential for prevention, timely medical care, and long-term recovery, as well as for supporting the families and caregivers of those impacted. Now therefore, we vi Li, Mayor of Charlotte and Chair Mark Jerel, chair of the Meckllinburgg County Board of Commissions, do hereby proclaim September 19th, 2025 as National Concussion Awareness Day in Charlotte and Meckllinmberg County and urge all of our citizens to honor this observance. Thank you. >> Thank you very much, Miss Johnson. Um I have also the opportunity to um note that we have a former elect um elected official that was a part of this body in the last row in the middle of the um dis over here. Nancy Carter, please raise your hand and be recognized. [Applause] Anytime that you're ready to come back, just let us know. >> Still in soil and conservation. >> Are you still an elected official? >> You're still elected to as a soil and water >> supervisor. >> And I think that we're I'm going to talk about that a little bit later on this evening, but you know, you'll always be just Nancy for me. So, thank you very much. So, >> let her know. >> All right. >> I'm sorry. >> Mr. Suggs is here with Protect Your Skull. So, can I give him >> Oh, yes, Mr. Sugs. He just You want to come down? Yeah, thank you. >> Come on down. So now [Applause] Mr. Johnson a chance to get seated. Thank you. >> Thank you. We will now move on to our public forum. I'd like to thank all of you for joining us and on behalf of the entire city council, I'd like to ask that all speakers and audience members be civil and courteous in their use of language. Speakers are encouraged to address council and should refrain from responding to audience members. Likewise, audience members should be courteous of each speaker and not yell out or interrupt them. We want to ensure that everybody has a chance to be heard. As a reminder for council, rule 4B allows for any issue that is raised by a speaker at the forum to be considered as an agenda item for the purposes of questions and discussion, but not for action. City staff will follow up with our speakers concerns that and then provide council with additional context as appropriate. Council can also discuss or ask for follow in follow following information during the discussion time at the end of our meeting. We also have packets from the staff on the public farm speaker topics as well as updates from staff on actions taken to address issues brought up by in public in the public forum. I would ask each council member to refer to those packets that they have as well. And since they are more than 10 speakers, each speaker will have two minutes to address council. So, thank you for being present and coming to speak with us. And I am going to call the first speaker who is Anthony Abraham. >> Mr. Abraham All right, we if he comes in, we'll follow up. Our next speaker is Kenya Baker. >> All right, our next speaker is Carson Con. Mr. Con, you have two minutes. >> Thank you. Thank you. Hi. I would like to use the great opportunity of speaking to discuss three opportunities of improvement for Charlotte City Council. First, I ask that the phone numbers of city council meeting speakers, if they're not already, no longer be published on the agenda without our consent. The government places limits on businesses to protect consumers contact information such as the te telephone consumer protection act. So why then should the government itself be allowed to share such information without its residents permission? Secondly, it is my understanding through discussion, observation, and experience that council meeting speakers generally prepare their speeches without being told that the three minutes they would be allowed to speak to to would be allowed to speak will be cut short if a certain minimum number of speakers are on the agenda for a meeting. Please work with the city clerk's office for clarity on this issue. Lastly, I ask that city council enable for its advisory board members the right to free speech, which is currently discouraged by your code of ethics for them, which states to only include wording that is essential. Quote, volunteers chief responsibility is to advise rather than to advocate when the position is contrary to a council policy." Thank you for your time. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Um, our next speaker is John Williams. All right. All right. Uh, good evening, uh, council members and fellow charlatans. Uh, so my name is John Williams and, uh, I'm actually a third generation charlatan, maybe one of the only ones in this room, possibly. And, uh, my grandparents came here in 1951, um, seeking a better life. And, uh, just like Ireina Zerutska, and just like, uh, the family of four-year-old Jace Edwards, whose tragic murders have shook our city. Uh, their deaths and so many others are why I'm speaking today. Uh my grandparents ran a small store in the Hoskins neighborhood until the 1970s when my grandmother was a victim of an armed robbery. Um the attacker didn't just rob the store. He locked my grandmother in a freezer and then proceeded to grab a fire ax and he would have been or she would have been killed. Um but the neighborhood kids came in and rushed in and chased the guy off. Um so the point there is that she provided because of community. um neighbors looking out for one another and uh that's the only way we can get out of this crisis and and it is a crisis and the the kind of joial nature of these meetings is kind of offputting because this is serious. Um you know so I'm proposing three things to fix what's going on in our city. CMPD and our courts are dysfunctional. Um we all know this. It's the elephant in the room. Um so I'm proposing three things. Uh, one is we need to partner with Atrium and or Novant uh to build a new psychiatric care facility. Um, De Carlos Brown should have never been on the streets. Everybody knows that. And the lack of psychiatric care resources is why he was out on the streets among many other things. And we need to address that. Um, we need to do a serious recruitment effort for CMPD. Um, people don't want to, veteran officers don't want to work here because they know that the laws aren't being enforced. And that's the bottom line. People are getting let out on plea deals. They're going repeat violent offenders, getting out, doing the exact same thing over and over again. >> And we also need to provide supplementary grant funding to the DA's office. >> Thank you very much for your remarks. I think we'll hear more about that as we continue through the review and study for what we can do. All right, our next speaker is Wes Awanga. Awar >> Here. Thank you, Awang. >> Chandler. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Let me just miss I'm sorry. If you don't mind, if you'll just sit there, we'll have J um Chandler Boozik come up next. Thank you. Sorry. Checking that off. Good evening, council. My name is Chandler Bozac. I live and work in Uptown Charlotte. I've lived here for about a year, and over the last year, I choose to commute to work. I've continued to see the homelessness and violence continue to tick up. I've seen people getting in fights on the street. I've seen people struggling. And I myself am struggling as well because I go to take my dog out this morning at 6:00 a.m. and there's a gentleman just with a flashlight trying to figure out what's in the bushes. He has a hood on. It's very off-putting. This is something that I deal with every single day. And so my question for you guys is how can I as a citizen help to work alongside you guys to make this city truly a better and safer place? Because I think that's what we all truly want to do is come together as a community to really make an improvement. And I am from Greenville, South Carolina. And when I was in high school, buildings were condemned. No one wanted to go down there. And the mayor truly chose to dedicate time and effort to revitalize downtown. and it's getting international attention for a place to be. I want Charlotte to be that, too. So, if you guys could um help me as a citizen to try to work with you guys and then also maybe we can come up with something that we can publicly have long term for a plan. Thank you, >> Chandler. Thank you very much for coming down to speak to us. Um, we are working very hard on this and sometimes it's not visible what we're doing, but I want you to know that this is something that has been going on for several months now and we're trying to determine how can we best serve people that are homeless. It's a very difficult proposition and we've gone to many many places to see what they do and we're just trying to make sure that places like what you're talking about at your home in your house that it's going to be something that we can do that's permanent and really makes a difference. We're not shortorthhanding this. This is all about what can we do. And I really appreciate it when communities or citizens like you say we want to pitch in to help because that makes all the difference in the world. So just continue to watch us, continue to come down and speak with us about this. It's important. We all know that. So thank you very much for being here today. >> Thank you, mayor. >> Thank you. >> All right. So now we'll go to Wes. I mean Weston. Wes, >> please come on down. Good afternoon and thank you for allowing the time to be here and listen to me. My name is Wes Salonger. I represent Rangewater Real Estate. We are a local apartment owner and developer here in Charlotte. We've developed 10 apartment projects, nearly 3,000 apartment units. Our most recent project is a Kingsman located in lower south end along the Woodlon Road corridor on the corner of Nation's Crossings in Exomore. Since we've broken ground and some over our units four months ago, we've experienced major incidences on site in the neighborhood. Uh after talking to neighbors, we've witnessed multiple shootings, multiple overdoses, two drivebys. This year there was an arson on site's a $und00 million project caused $50,000 of damage that we paid for. There's an attempted arson in the church next door. There's been continuous open drug use and prostitution in the neighborhood. So to combat this, we have on-site security. We're paying $20,000 a month for the security. We've offered a free unit for CMPD courtesy officer on site and we've worked with our neighbors to prevent this violence, drug use, and crime that's ongoing in our neighborhood. So my request is we are concerned local business owners. We can't succeed when the city doesn't succeed. We have the same shared interests and we want to work with you guys. So my question to you is how can we work together to relocate and house this unhoused population that's going on in our area? Thank you guys. >> Thank you very much. Um, >> relocate. >> As I said, we really do want to work with you and I appreciate very much that you give us an idea of what it's like and begin to move forward with it. We have some ideas and I'm working with the county. I hope that we will be able to um move forward as quick more quickly than not especially since we have such interest in our community. So, thank you very much for >> tonight and your remarks. >> Our next um speaker is Kevin Cella. >> Justin >> Justin War. >> Oh, Justin War. Thank you. Number seven, >> Justin. Good evening, council. My name is Justin. I am 21 years old and born in Charlotte, and I'd like to talk about red lights. In the two weeks since I signed up to be a speaker here, my girlfriend was hit by a driver running a red light, and that just adds urgency to this. I believe red light cameras should be instated with certain limitations to make them both constitutional and protective of privacy. The simplest solution would be to just add red light cameras at intersections, but that might lead to more people speeding to try and make it before it turns red, which would just displace one issue with another. To combat this, when the light turns yellow, the camera should start recording and pick up anyone speeding. In order to make it constitutional, you could have one individual who, if they were paid even $25 an hour, all you need to do is catch one person every two hours, find $50, something to make it a deterrent. But on the one occasion that I uh for any law enforcement officers, this was in 1930, ran a red light, it would not be debilitating to pay as a one-off accident. I have almost been t-boned three times and my father has been t-boned not just by a car but by a cyclist and it's it's not limited just to cars. I I've seen so many things change in the city for better and for worse. But even Massachusetts born individuals have commented on the abysmal state of the drivers here which should say a lot. Uh, thank you for your time and consideration. And lastly, I'd like to add on to what Ms. Chandler, I believe, said and just state that it is very important that we not just displace the homeless individuals, but try to remedy the problem at its source. Thank you very much for your time, >> Paul. >> Thank you very much. >> I hope that your girlfriend will be healed and well, thank you. um we will determine if how we can study these issues and see where we can land. So we'll have someone talk with you about that and get that information to you. All right. So finally I get to go to number eight Kevin Celia Celia I think we got to look at. >> Okay. Um, our next speaker is Quandela Walker. >> Good afternoon. >> Good afternoon. >> Hi, my name is Quandela Walker. Um, I've been raised in Charlotte since I was four years old. Prior to coming to Charlotte, I was born in Jersey City, New Jersey, where I was um in prek school and I was wrapped up with a rope thrown in the closet and with duct tape over my mouth by a teacher. I came to Megllinburg County and I was in placed in a behavioral emotional handicap program. During that time that I was in that program, I was attending Nation Ford Elementary School. They had trailers on the outside for the children that was in the program like me. At the time that I was placed in that program, they had timeout rooms look like jail cells. I'm here to speak up for those who are disabled like me. I was diagnosed with PTSD, severe depression, and anxiety. I've been homeless, sleeping in my car for the past few years on and off outside of my imprisonment. I have two daughters. I share with everybody that I put God first in all of my walks because I do. During my time of imprisonment at McDow County, I was held on federal hold. I had a dental infection. And I had four root canals that I needed to be done. I had to get four extractions. I almost died. I have severe nerve damage now. Not only have I'm battling mental health, but I'm also battling physical health. I'm here today because I know that it is hard when you have an income of $973 a month. You cannot get housing. I applied for two apartments after being released and I was denied. I don't have enough income and I do have a representative paying. But for the people I'm in front of that have authority and have the right to help. We need you. Thank you very much for >> We need you because I feel like in every way possible when I was approved for disability and diagnosed I should have been given a section 8 or housing authority voucher and I also do feel like every ability deserves a doorstep. You can give us a check but you can't give us stability. We have children too. >> Yes. Thank you Miss Walker for um that. I'm going to ask Mr. um Sean if you would talk with her a little bit more about what the opportunities are that we can address. >> Thank you. >> So if you would join him. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> All right. Our next speaker is Holly Pester. Good evening. My name is Hi Pster and I live in Nota and I just moved to Charlotte two uh five months ago. Um on August 22nd, Ireina Zerusa was brutally murdered on the Blue Line by a mentally ill unhoused man. While this attack was not an everyday occurrence, feeling unsafe on the lynx line is, especially for women such as myself. In my five short months living in Charlotte, I cannot even count the number of times I have been sexually harassed by unhoused men on the train. Not to mention the various times I have watched unhoused people on the train do things such as begin screaming, throwing trash, and have mental breakdowns. I once watched a man take his clothes off on the train, throw them at other passengers, then get off the train at CTC station, and proceed to hit a woman on the platform in the face. I have always had to be cautious on the train. But now, because of what happened to Ireina, I can never sit on the train again with a stranger behind me. From now on, I must always stand with my back against the door and pepper spray in my pocket. Security on our Lynx line platforms and trains are essential for helping deter extreme situations like Ireneas and everyday occurrences like mine. We need security on every train at all times or at the very least after dark. I understand this will cost money which is often in short supply. But if we need more money to fund the links line, why are we using an honor system for the ticketing on the train? There have been times I have gone a month or longer without having a security officer approach me on the train asking to verify I've paid my fair. How much money are we losing by not ensuring every rider on the line has paid for their ticket? I want to close by reiterating a statistic that is not talked about enough. Violent crimes like what happened to Ireina are on the decline in Charlotte. We have our city council and CMPD to thank for this. But when faced with a setback like this murder, we need to double down and continue fighting to make the city safer. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Um, [Applause] all right. So, we'll go and continue for our next speaker is Jacob Deasali. Good evening, council members. The supreme role of government is to aim society towards the good. And it is good to do justice and it is evil to do injustice. When someone of the Carlos Brown's repute is arrested for a misdemeanor and is a clear repeat offender, he should not be let out of jail before trial. When criminals continue to break the law, the gavvel of justice ought to come down hard. Yet, our justice system continues to process and release career criminals. This is not an indictment of CMPD. This is an indictment of city leadership. Thomas Aquinus teaches that laws are to be directed toward the common good. Human law, the law that you are in charge of legislating, is to be in accordance with natural law. And natural law dictates from God that we ought to do good and avoid evil. And this principle is universally true. It is not good to release felons onto the streets for them to commit murder. It is good to guard the citizens in your care. Inordinate compassion for criminals is an injustice to the afflicted. The midyear report for homicides in Charlotte is 42. This number should be close to zero. Less than 10% of the city's budget is spent on justice and public safety. If you cannot keep the innocent safe, your other programs will bear no fruit. I understand there have been talks of reforming reforming the justice system, which is good. I am asking you to do something different. Start prosecuting felons to the fullest extent of the law and massively increase the budget of law enforcement. We keep being taxed, yet our city continues to be unsafe. Strong enforcement of the law deters criminals from breaking the law. This does not mean we shouldn't love our enemies. We are called to kindness, but we are also called to do justice. Micah 6:8. God bless and thank you very much. >> Thank you. Our next speaker is Adrien Johnson. Good evening, mayor. Good evening, council. Uh, it's great to be here. Um, it's great to hear, uh, us talking about security and safety in our community. I'm a Charlotte Tan, former CMPD officer, 14 years. I just left in 2021 and um like I said, it's great to be here. Uh it's a lot of unfortunate situations going on in the community and uh I I not just one group of people or agency that can solve a crime issue, right? Um and I know that from being a police officer and from growing up in the '9s on West Boulevard. So, um, it's it's it's a lot of things that we can do to solve a lot of these problems. And, um, I think it's more of community issue and us as a community needs to come together and do something about the crime such as I did by joining a police department, stepping up, being a community reporting crime. So, I'm here on behalf of the Charlotte Meckenberg Crimes Stoppers program uh as a partnership with CMPD and the community to invite everyone here, including you, Mayor Council, uh to the Charlotte Mechburgg Crimes Stoppers 5K uh race that will be held October 4th, 2025 at 8:00 a.m. at the Police Academy, 1750 Shopan Road. So, I I love to hear all the talk. Uh let's let's put some of these plans in action. Show up where it counts the most. Um the program in the past 5 years uh has received over 15,556 tips, led to 820 arrests, cleared 2,154 cases, and approved 585 rewards. So, um, and that's from 20 civilians who aren't sworn police officers, who do who don't work for the city, have everyday jobs like myself that put in the work, put in the effort to reduce crime. So, that's what it's going to take and I appreciate this time and I appreciate this time and I love to see everyone out October 4th at the police academy for the Crimestoppers 5K. >> Thank you very much for your service, the work that you're doing on Crimestoppers. that helps such a lot. Thank you very much. Our next speaker is Elaine Alexander. Thank you, Charlotte City Council, for allowing me to request with urgency that you amend the overgrown vegetation ordinance by adding a height exemption for naturalistic landscapes. I am an urban nature advocate, a gardener, and yes, an educator. I say educator because even though I do not teach in any school, I do have a classroom. It is my small front yard in Dworth. It is there that science class takes place all day, every day. People of all ages walking by can witness the wonder of what happens when a biodiverse pollinator garden replaces a manicured monoulture lawn. Deliberately designed and attentivefully maintained by me, my native flower fil yard is that rare property where one can experience an effortless education in ecology. Situated next to a busy sidewalk, walkers often stop and express awe at the sight of hummingbirds snacking on salvia, native bumblebees buzzing about the blackeyed susan, swarms of goldfinches, feasting on cone flowers, and occasionally even one of our extinct threatened monarch butterflies munching on milkweed. This on-site education shouldn't be confined to a school field trip. It should be an experience that charlatans should be allowed and yes, even motivated to enjoy in their own yards without fear of penalty. More than 22% of our native pollinators risk extinction. And one of the chief reason pollinator populations are imperiled is habitat loss. And so I'm asking you, Mayor Lyles and city council members, to allow charlatans to help reverse that trend. Rather than outlawing these sanctuaries, allow us to make life better for our threatened pollinators and allow all residents to exper experience the wondrous education that happens when wildlife flourishes right outside our door. Thank you. Thank thank you for um helping us understand what we might be able to do. And I do think that we've talked about a referral on this one already. So just we'll keep you informed as much as we can. Thank you very much. Our next speaker is Steven Mullis. Good evening, city council. Thank you for giving me the time to speak. I'm Steven Mullis. I work over um at the AM Zion Church corporate headquarters in Charlotte, graphic designer and do websites for uh multiple publications and departments for them. Um I'm also a graduate of UNC Charlotte. So basically at this point a native charlatan. Um I have two things quickly I just wanted to address. One is um the construction that's been going on in my property. Um it's been the company uh onsite has been the company. It's been a rosewater storm drain project. Um there's just been a a really bad experience. Um firstly when they went to reinforce the house they destroyed my fiber optic line. I wasn't notified or anything. You know I was without internet for you know day two days. Um you know I'm a graphic designer and I have a freelance so that kind of affected me. Um, I had to reach out to the internet, repair the internet myself, have them run a brand new line. Um, you know, I called the company on site, try to get them to to take care of it for me since, you know, they were responsible, but they just said they look into it. Um, so I just I see the infrastructure plans and y'all mentioning this company, so I'm just asking that you would just take into account, you know, the residents and put them first. you know, I spoke with Storm Roder and they have helped me out with other issues, you know, so I do appreciate storm water standing up, you know, for the citizens. And uh my second issue is just to talk about the light rail issu uh safety. Um I live over near Archdale and Tabola Station and um uh every time I've been on the light rail to go over there, um it's been homelessness. Um, the elevators do not work half the time going up to the platforms. The stairs going up to the platforms are neglected uh, rusted holes through it. Um, and uh, I've contacted cats and they've told me, you know, what they could do, but um, it's just, you know, Charlotte used to be the small town feel, but we're now a big city and we need to, you know, start taking policies, you know, for some of the big cities. So, I propose maybe just more security on ticket checking and u maybe like some of the big cities where they have the um the bars that you go through, maybe think about installing that to help. >> Thank you. Thank you very much for your suggestions and um I think if Allison would help out on this construction issue for you, she's coming around that way. I think that would be very helpful. Maybe we can do something about it immediately. So, thank you very much. All right. So, I believe that that um will now give us to Sarah Ganj. If I said that correctly or if I didn't say it correctly, my apologies. >> Hello, Mayor and Council. My name is Sarah Gier. I'm an associate professor of urban ecology and chair of the department of earth, environmental, and geographical sciences at UN Charlotte. And I am here to follow up to passionately request that you amend the nuisance vegetation ordinance for a height restriction to permit more naturalistic landscapes in Charlotte. Um, and specifically request a change referral, I think, to take action on the issue. So, I can quote some statistics um as an urban ecologist and I'll also say I'm also on the executive board of the Meckberg Audibon Society. Um but some statistics that you may have heard, we've lost three billion birds in North America since 1970. And then also referencing one of the previous speakers, a recent study in science found that we've lost 22% of butterflies in the last 20 years in the United States. And you can actually go on the New York Times article and search for Charlotte and I think 70% of the butterfly species in our city are declining according to that study. So those are bad things. A good thing is that the primary cause of those losses are habitat loss and degradation. And that is a good thing because we can actually do something about this. So changing this ordinance would actually increase habitat for wildlife in the city. There are lots of studies that show that actually mowing less and letting grass grow higher um and increasing species diversity significantly increases insect abundance and diversity. So this is a small change that we can do to massively impact wildlife populations and that in itself will improve the quality of life of charlatans and all the other species in the city. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll now hear from Phyllis Kapple. >> Capable. Excuse me. My apologies. Please. >> Miss Capable. You ever see the movie Creed 2? >> He directed that movie. >> Please take careful. >> Careful. Right. 32. No, I have not. >> Okay. >> Hello, Mayor. Hello, city council. >> Hello. >> Thank you for letting me come up here today. Um, I just wanted to present to you a proposition and a request. Um, I'm making a request tonight. I was born and raised in Connecticut, but I've been living in Charlotte for almost 25 years. I'm a registered nurse. I've been a nurse for 30 years. And I realized, how did I get that way? I attended a trade high school. Trade high school was a high school that not only did you work towards your high school diploma, you work towards a trade. And you had many trades that you could select while you were in high school. I feel as if this can possibly be a solution for a lot of our homeless kids on the streets. If they had a direction where they could possibly graduate with a trade once they graduated out of high school, they could move in a possible better direction and path in life. They're saying a lot of kids are not going to college now because of the cost and the length of time they have to spend going in that direction. So, I'm asking, can we use taxpayers money to possibly build a trade technical high school here in Charlotte? When I attended the high school, we had a variety of trades that were offered to the high school um kids. Mine's was fashion design, but mama tricked me into becoming a nurse. You had beauty culture. >> Yeah, good choice. It was beauty culture. It was fashion design. It was carpentry. It was masonery. It was plumbing. It was electronics. It was electrical. And I don't see these types of schools here in this city. And I wanted to I even went to the point of getting signatures from people that said, "Yes, let's get this on board. Let's help the generation to a better future." and I even got arrested in trying to get these signatures. >> Thank you very much for the remarks. Um I hope that you [Applause] >> I believe that the council um believes in what you've said. I want you to know that I think it would be really helpful if you um go to the schoolboard meetings because those are things that we can do. think about central Petemont and all of those other areas because we do want people to be able to be successful and have jobs. All right, so our next speaker is Amber McCall Loose. >> Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to be heard. I'm going to condense everything as best as possible. And um I've been in Charlotte 17 years. Um I did child protective service investigations for 14. Seven of them were here. I was also a social worker at the men's shelter in Charlotte three years ago. The Charlotte um shelter run by Roof Above. They have two shelters in Charlotte. One on Statesville Avenue, which is the one that Demarcus is D. Carlos, I'm sorry, was supposed to have been staying at. I know that my son works at the airport and saw D. Carlos there um along with other staff many nights uh sleeping on the benches. So, at any point in time, any of us going through the airport could have been his victim um if his schizophrenia had chosen to um spiral uh while we happened to be there. So, it doesn't it's not just narrowed down to the area. Um the mental health concerns when I was working in roof above they are they receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding from Bank of America, True Liant, Lowe's, the Knights, the Hornets, etc. They have several apartment buildings in Charlotte. I was assigned to we had 200 men at Statesville. I was assigned to case manage 100 men. We had no security. We had murderers. We had rapists. It's a low bar barrier shelter. There's pedophiles. There's mentally ill. There's chronically physically ill people in there. There's there's there's so much wrong there. They could do be doing so much right, but they're not. And I am not no longer there because um I spoke out to advocate for the staff and the men that were trying to get the services that desperately needed them to prevent some things that that can ultimately happen in our community that have happened. The tragedies that are preventable. That's the biggest tragedy is that so many things that occur are preventable. So, um, in my speaking out, I was silenced. I gave them one month notice so I could continue my rapport with the men because it took a long time to build it. If you know anything about um, mental health. Um, so anyway, um, I also did CPS for the uh, 2010 Ca uh, Chapman case that you can Google. Um, he went to mental health. I obtained his mental health records. I did um give them to the newspaper. >> Thank you. >> Um and so I'm I think we need to take it more seriously. I raised four kids in Charlotte. There's I'm on board with the trade schools and everything else. >> Give your comments to the clerk, please. If you got them written, if you want to provide them to the clerk. >> Yes. So, who do I give them to? Right over here. Right down here. >> The police officer will take them. >> All right. Thank you very much for sharing your story. Thank you for sharing that information in your story. Thank you for the work that you've done. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Our 15th speaker is Anita Wright. That's right. >> Are you okay? That's right. >> Um, it's right. Do you need some assistance? >> You can go to that microphone right there if it's easier. >> Right. If it's easier. Right. >> Lift. >> You can lift it up. Lift it up. >> Yeah. Would you help her with that, please? Thank you. >> Your good deed for the day. >> Thank you. Uh, m thank you for this opportunity. Uh, I wanted to share with you an incident that occurred with me on July 27th at the main terminal bus station uptown Charlotte. I had gotten off of bus 22 uh headed towards Charlotte um um headed towards First Baptist Church. That's how I know the time frame because I was late for church that day. And since I'm usually walking, I'm wearing pedestrian friendly shoes. Um, I passed two security uh guards, two male security guards, and uh, as I was walking on Fourth Street, I trip and fell where the uh, cement is cracked and it's not level. I trip and fell and literally the security guards uh, there were young men a few people there who were ordering and uh, they were yelling, "Hey, this lady fell. this lady felt when I fell. I had a broken foot. When I went to EMS, I had a broken ankle. When I went to EMS, I thought my arm, my left arm was broken because my left arm is what braced my fall. It was not. Again, I had the homeless people who were obviously aneated, obviously had something in their system. I had people touching me who literally smelled like urine and feces. The security guards dismissed me. They uh ignored me. Uh and my opinion uh they were intentionally uh cavalier and nonchalant. People were yelling. This lady fell and I was dressed for church. So I'm curious, did I have to look like the stereotypical person there who is neglecting themsself? And also there were two female security guards in the middle. And guess what? They were laughing with the other passengers who were laughing at me as I laid down with a broken foot, a broken ankle. And I thought my arm was broken. Eventually eventually the two u male guards come over. Uh one is yelling at me, "You've got to get up. You've got to get up." And guess what they did? He said, "Can we lift you up?" One of the young men who was attempting to have social conversation, he was on one side of me and guess what the guard did? He just grabbed my arm and snatched it and I thought my arm was broken. I've requested this footage. This is week number nine. I do not have that footage. Can someone tell me who can I speak with? >> And I've requested it. I have emails and I have uh pictures. >> Thank you. I think that um we're going to have um Liz, would you work with her to address her comments? Where is Liz? >> Sean. Okay. Sorry. Thank you, Sean. Um so, we'll we're going to help. Oh my god. All right. If you'll just give it a moment, Miss Sean Heath is going to join you in a minute. Okay. Thank you for sharing your story with us. So, that's our 15th speaker for tonight's um city council um switch I think for our forum. So, now we um well, we appreciate that. We're going to go ahead and we're going to move to open the public hearing on a resolution to close a portion of 31 Street. 31 Street. Madam Clerk, do we have any speakers? Come in. >> We have any speakers? If there are no speakers, >> close the hearing. Second. >> We have a motion to close the public hearing and to adopt a resolution and close a portion of 31st Street. >> Is that Miss Mayfield? Did you >> move to approve A and B? >> All right. A and B. Is there any discussion? Is >> there a second to second? >> Mr. Driggs. >> Mr. Driggs. >> Was a second. >> Mr. Second. We have a second. >> Second. Sorry. >> Is there any discussion? Hearing any discussion. All in favor, please raise your hands. Anyone opposed? I don't see anyone in opposition. So, that passes. Our next one is a public hearing on a resolution to close a portion of alleyway off Hob Road. Um, we're now going to open. Is there a speaker, Madame Clerk? >> No, ma'am. >> We do not have any speakers. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing and to adopt a resolution and 12 A and B? >> Second. We have a motion and a second. And for A and B, any discussion? All in favor, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? All right. Thank you. Next, we're going to move to the policy section of our agenda. City manager, do you have a report today? >> Yes, Mayor. I have a brief report. Um, I I guess for the past several years, we've been talking about uh public safety and uh with a great intensity over the the past several months. Uh, one thing that has become very evident is that um, CMPD sworn officers are in the community and that's extremely important. We also realize that uh, it's important to have the police officers actually doing policing as opposed to some of the um, jobs that are associated that what a civilian could do. And so you may uh remember that we uh used the data from the police executive research forum recommendations as well as Safe Charlotte and we were able to free up um 30 or so vacant positions that um would have been for police officers sworn that we can use civilians. For example, the individual who supervised the 911 center instead of being a police captain is a a civilian. Uh the reason I say that is that what we've been able to do is uh utilize the u civilians to help us have more officers uh patrolling on the on the street. And that really came to fruition a lot this weekend. We had a uh a Panthers game where the Panthers uh won that game and um >> say that loud >> and where the Panthers won that game. And uh maybe what you didn't notice is that we didn't have to call back any police officers because our use of our civilian traffic control officers as well as our civilian crash investigators. Uh you may not know many of our civilian traffic control officers but um but I think there's one that you know Antoine Scoffield right so what this has allowed is for some of our employees to have opportunities um to um be a part of the teams that help us with that. So again, we will continue to not only recruit and retain exceptional police officers, but when we can find opportunities for those officers to to have civilians do some of the the jobs that in the past that they have done that we'll seek that too. Then lastly, I um believe you you understand that we have a forwardthinking organization and in 2028 we have to renegotiate the interlocal agreement with Meckllinmberg County as it comes to solid waste services. Well, you'll say, well, Marcus, it's 2025. Why are we talking about that? That's uh uh years away. But what we need to do is be in a partnership, be collaborative, but maybe more importantly be innovative because what we're trying to do is not have a lot of things go to the landfield. How can we uh be resilient? How can we upcycle? How can we recycle? And we've had some very successful initiatives through our partnerships with the barn, our partnerships with sustained Charlotte and our own uh office of sustainability. And while it may seem like it's something that's not that important, um tonight I wanted to recognize our folks from Angela Charles group. Hey Angela. Um from Charlotte Water. And what you um have before you is uh last week Charlotte Water uh debuted uh two beverages brewed with highly purified recycled water which we call QC water. Again, um what you have in front of you is a Crown BHA which is uh made by Lenny Brewing. >> And uh we are going to double down again with the Renew Brew Faulk. You may think it's light. I think it's very important that we're able to be innovative when it comes to our resources. So the QC water starts as treated affluent from Charlotte Waters McDow water resource recovery facility that undergoes a state-of-the-art purification process including carbon filtering, reverse osmosis and advanced oxidization. So Angela Charles >> said it like he knew what it meant. I love you. >> Are you good? Not bad. my engineer. So, Angela and if your whole crew could stand, thank you so much for the your [Music] [Applause] >> All right. Thank you very much. Yes, >> manager. Are we not going to mention what Miss Charles led last week? >> Go ahead. >> You better It's time for you to mention. Can we have Miss Charles come down and share? So, Miss Charles, would you please >> because I had the opportunity to join That's right. >> Miss Angela Charles and the mayor as well as the city manager of Mount Holly as well as Miss Allison Craig because we did a pretty amazing thing that took about 18 minutes for it to happen. And I want while we have you here to give an opportunity to for you to share where we're talking about anou with the county this partnership that was 20 plus years in the making. >> Thank you council member Mayfield. Good evening uh mayor uh council and uh manager Jones. Uh we did connect the city of Mount Holly uh to Charlotte water system. This has been 20 years uh in the making. We have two pipes 65 to 75 feet below the creek bed, the Kataba River uh connecting that uh whole city to Charlotte waters. So, thank you for attending and we're happy to get that done. That's part one of the of the stove facility project. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Manager. >> And thanks to the staff. We have a great >> All right. So, um if I could take a moment um with council, >> we you know, we've been talking about the idea of moving ahead with quality of life referrals for all of the council committees. And as we've been discussing this and thinking about the issues around safety and security, especially on our transit line over these several weeks that we've had, this really means that I think it's time for us to um focus on what the opportunities might be for referrals that I think are important for us as we continue to work to make sure that we have quality of life and that we have the ability for to be um fast on our feet than we perhaps have been in the last several weeks. And so I'm hoping that we can I can send out tomorrow um some referrals. Um first one would being in the budget governance and intergovernmental relations to identify opportunities to align with safety related especially with the state legislature the all of the people that we're working on this. We need someone to night to knit this together. And I think that um the budget and governance interation and intergovernmental relations would do that well. But also as we're doing that, we cannot forget the opportunities that I think the young man that's talked about this having the ability to have a job of the young lady that talked about having a job. So for this next step, I hope that budget governance and intergovernmental relations will identify and evaluate opportunities that we have not yet found and make it possible for us to keep people employed in a way that we can have people thrive in our city. And then the next one that I wanted to say is housing and safety community mixed together. All of us have heard today about this this idea of what it is means to be homeless on our streets and what the results are and what that means for us. So um Miss Watlington and Miss Mayfield will team up again for housing and safety in the community committee um looking at where we can develop partnerships or any private sector collaboration or what ideas are we going to be have. I think Miss Watlington has done this one time before. um when she first came on board and maybe it's another time to go and Miss Mayfield I know that you will support her and so I just wanted to say that those would be the referrals and I would hope that everyone would be able to be move them forward as we begin um to understand we're going to have an election but we're going to have an election that I think has quality in it for all of our service and the work. So I will be sending out those referrals tomorrow morning. Miss Watlington. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I just thank you for the referrals. Um I just wanted to speak a little bit to some of the work that we've been able to do with our um intergovernmental partners and I know that council member Asher, who is also on the um housing safety and community committee, will be um instrumental in that work as well. Um but many of the comments that we heard tonight were things that we've been discussing for some time. Um and many of you know that a lot of it doesn't sit necessarily within the city. That being said, I've been very pleased with the amount of engagement that I've gotten from um Council Member Graham, um Chair Jerel, Commissioner uh Griffin, Representatives Brown, Loftton, um uh Senator Mushaba, Muhammad, um and our judges who have been wonderful with informing us where in the process um can we really make an impact. I know that we're looking at um state legislation that's being drafted right now. Um and that hits a couple of items, but it really needs a comprehensive approach. Um so, Dr. S over at the county was um very very helpful in laying out the SIM, which I'm going to get the um I'm going to get the acronym eventually, but I believe it's the sequential intercept map. and it really lays out where um our systems touch our neighbors, particularly those who um are faced with mental health challenges. And each of those intercepts um really touch on policies within each of our government. So from a city standpoint, there are things there that we certainly will begin to discuss through this um referral. Um but if you're interested in following that along through that process, we'll be kicking that off October 6th at the committee meeting. Um and we hope to have our intergovernmental partners there as well. But it's multifaceted. It's a very complex system. Um but I'm very hopeful uh with engagement that I've seen from our colleagues um at various levels of government um and also within the nonprofit sector. So uh it's a big big task, but I think we're up to it. So more to come. >> All right. Thank you. All right. I think I missed Mr. Graham. I think I forgot to say that your responsibilities if we can go forward about jobs and economic developments will be to focus particularly on the nest committee as we begin to look at what we're going to do with our mobility plan and where we are going to have opportunities to have people assured that they will not be displaced. People will have the opportunity to participate in our economy and without losing their place in our city. So with that, that's the end of my remarks for today. So if we're ready, if you're okay, we'll move to the policy section of our agenda. Besides the manager, we're going to go and start with financial partners policy update. All right. Do we have anything miss? Yes. So, first let me make a motion to approve um financial partner policy. >> So move second. >> We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? >> Made the motion. >> I know we have a motion and a second. So do we is there any? >> Yes. I I would like to make brief remarks. Uh what you see in front of us, the financial partner policy, it's been revised to be good stewards of our taxpayers dollars while addressing the community's needs. Uh this is a this is a bold step forward and I appreciate my colleagues input along the way. Committee members Mayfield, Brown, Mitchell, and Peacock. So I hope that uh full council will adopt this unanimously as well. All right. Is there any other comment, Mr. Mitchell? >> Uh, thank you, Mayor. Uh, let me thank staff. Is is Sheree here? >> There he is. >> Let me thank you for your patient, understanding, and taking the committee feedback and then coming back to us with a great talking points for us to discuss. And so one thing I like to bring you up because you know what you know what I'm about to say about the mandatory meeting that I'm hoping that you have a date and uh in October. I hope I didn't steal your thunder. Uh why she approaching and this is to all our financial partners. It's very important you attend this meeting in the date that she's going to share with you because we're going to have some challenge this year from a financial funding of all our partners and this meeting is very important so you understand the application and how you will be graded on and for this council we hopefully we got a tool that can take the politics out of us raising our hand and we have a policy that we can go by. Submission. First of all, thank you, but do you have a date for the mandatory meeting in October? >> I will reiterate um mandatory meeting will be in October. Uh we have not finalized the date. However, um I can promise that the date will be advertised on October the 1st, which is also the date that our application will be live at charlottnc.gov/budget on our financial partner page. >> Thank you. >> Can you repeat that again? Some of my colleagues were writing it down. October 1st, what's the website? >> October the 1st, the FY27 financial partner application will be live on our website. It's charlottnc.gov/budget. And you'll be able to find it at the link for the financial partner section on that website. And of course, if you have any questions, comments, or concerns, uh, all council members and staff feel free to point any interested organizations to me personally, and I'll make sure that they have all the information that they need. And again, the mandatory meeting will be posted on our website as of October the 1st. >> Thank you, Miss Sheree. Thank you, Mayor. >> Thank you very much. >> All right. So, um, we now have a vote on >> motion. Can you send this on? >> Are we ready to vote? >> Oh, yeah. And I was just asking her to send all of us a link so that when nonprofits reach out to us, we can send the link out. Yeah, that's great. That is great. So, we have a motion on the table and a second. All in favor of the motion, please raise your hand. >> Anyone opposed? >> None are opposed. So, thank you. So, that that is a big achievement and we know how much work we spent on it in the last budget cycle. It looks like it might be a smoother process this year. So, thank you very much for what you >> We hope so. Right. Well, I I want to give a I forgot to give a big shout out to Sean and uh Monica. They were the support staff, including Sheree. They've put in a lot of work and Sean has been always available and accessible even including weekends and evenings. And I certainly appreciate that, Sean. >> So, thank you. >> All right. The next item on our business agenda is authorization of general obligation refunding bonds and general obligation bond anticipation note. We move >> to approve A, B, and C. Second. >> We have a motion for A, B, and C. And we have a second. Is there any discussion? >> Hearing no discussion. All in favor? Um, please raise your hand. >> All right. Thank you. That motion passes. The next item is private developer contribution for water main improvements. Is there a motion for A and B? Approve the developer. Okay, we have a motion for A and B. Is there any discussion? >> And we have a second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing no discussion. All in favor, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? No one's opposed. Our next item is item 11. Is there a motion to adopt a resolution to expand the jurisdiction of Professional Police Services, Inc., DBA professional security services in areas adjacent to city-owned transit assets and authorize a city manager is designate to negotiate, amend, and execute a municipal mutual aid agreement with professional police services, Inc. to aid in addressing safety and security issues at properties adjacent to city-owned transit assets. >> So moved. >> We have a motion >> second >> and a second. Um, I do know that I had to ask the manager to explain it a little bit more for me because I wasn't quite sure where we were headed. But I don't know, Mr. Jones, if you want to say anything discussion. >> All right, let's go ahead with some discussion. We'll go around. Um, Mr. Graham, Miss Mayfield, Miss Sashmir, >> you might as well go around today. >> Well, that is true, but let's try it and see how it works. >> Well, thank you ma madam mayor and um councel. um some of the questions that was submitted earlier the staff was really good questions that clarify a lot for me but there there were three points that I really wanted to quiz staff on just for my education as well as public education on the particular topic um conceptually I'm going to vote yes for it I think it's something that we need to do but my first question is around training and there's different staff here that It is Brent. >> Mr. Ko is here. >> Brent, thank you for joining us. Notwithstanding the fact that they're going to have uh more territory to cover and more interaction with the public, can you talk to to me about the training of the private security officers as it relates to the training that a CMPD officer may be given? >> Yes, sir. Good evening, uh, mayor, members of council. I'm Brent Kaggel, interim CEO. To your question, I have Celestine Ratliff here with me. um she owns operates co-owner operator of PPS or PSS and she'd be happy to speak to you about the training protocols that they have in place and the state requirements and guidelines that their officers meet. >> Good evening. >> Good evening. So with regard to um profess professional police services, our officers are certified sworn police officers just like CMPD is. They go through the exact same training. They have to go through basic law enforcement training. They also have to um complete a minimum of 24 hours of inservice training every year. Because I'm the training coordinator for professional police services, my officers actually complete more than 24 hours. I ensure that they complete 26 to 28 hours. In addition to some inservice training, I mean some uh in-house training that we do as well. We've invited in a um judicial official to talk to our officers about arrest, search and investigation and also keep our officers ab breast of any legal changes that are you know that are coming up and you know uh work with our officers on just you know basic questions that they may have about um you know court testimony. Anything that you know our officers may be dealing with on a daily basis we do utilize that resource to provide additional training to our officers that is ongoing. So, in answer to your question, our officers uh receive the same amount of training to become law enforcement officers as CMPD, and they have to maintain the same level of inservice training that CMPD has to um has to uphold as well. >> And for for the public um education, are these officers armed? >> They are police officers. So, yes, sir, they are armed. >> Okay. Uh the the second question is for Bren in terms of uh I know there's currently 20 CMPT officers currently filling the gap um currently. Uh when we met last time, I talked specifically about whether or not there was a more formal relationship with CMPD. I think the slide that we saw last time said that there were only two officers assigned to cats. And my question was, is was there a way for us to have a a permanent um law enforcement present CMPD as the lead agency, whether or not it's a special task force specifically assigned to cats? Can you give me an update on that? >> Yes, sir. So, so last time we spoke, we mentioned the two uh CMPD liaison that work together with uh cats as well as uh PSS. Um since that time, we have entered into an agreement. It's an offduty assignment for 800 hours per week, which is roughly the equivalent of 20 FTE officers. Um we will continue that agreement indefinitely, right, until further notice. Um but certainly no intention to remove that assignment or that offduty assignment um um at at any point in the future that I can foresee. Um so so that is a formal uh relationship with CMPD in that we work together with CMPD to um create those assignments and those postings and then officers um can volunteer or sign up for those assignments as an offduty assignment. To your second question, we continue to to um think about how we continue to collaborate with CMPD. I will say tonight's action is one of those ways. Uh a mutual aid agreement. Um you had asked about their expansion I would say or the expansion of uh duties or abilities for PSS under this agreement. It is not a significant expansion. It certainly is a limited expansion of their ability to conduct enforcement activities in specific areas outlined in the agreement andus that we have with CMPD. And it allows us better collaboration and better results quite frankly um as we all work to reduce criminal activity or nontransit activity near or inside or or around transit facilities. the Charlotte Transit Center, our other transit facilities, as well as the rail trail. >> Who who would be the lead agency >> for for security on on the catch system, >> CMPD or or the private? >> So, PSS is is our primary contractor and they have primary responsibilities in their areas as outlined in the contract and the mutual aid agreement. Um, however, they frequently work and collaborate with CMPD as they're conducting uh their duties. >> Well, I I hope that we can move forward with really formalizing a a more permanent agreement with CMPD uh and that the private security is a supplement to that. I know that's a long-term goal, but I think that's where I think we should be headed. Um I I took last week and I rode transit, rode the bus, rode the street car, uh talked to um um customers. There's a feeling of more uh perception of better safety with CMPD involved. And I I just think that as we rethink how we police transit um now and even in the future that we don't need two agencies that we should have one agency um which is CMPD not overlapping with any others security force leading the charge for us on this. And so hopefully that's something that Mr. manager that we we can begin to think about, work on. I'm interested to hear the comments from my colleagues. Um, but I think that as we move forward, um, I think, um, I would love to see a permanent task force of officers assigned to cats supplemented with private security. um even on the street car, I wrote it several times, didn't see anybody um there. Uh and so I think we have to really really use this opportunity uh to think broad and wide uh about a permanent solution um that regains public confidence. Um and that's all I have. I think as we think forward that CMPD should take a a major role in ter >> our security measures on on our um public transportation system, the use of technology etc. Right? And so I'm just looking within uh the resolution here and it states clearly in the resolution that nothing in this resolution should impact, reduce or limit the jurisdiction of CMPD. Correct. Um and so CMPD will continue to have their jur jurisdiction. However, the augmentation of PPS will allow for an immediate action. Um, so we can um take action now as we work on a long-term plan. I notice also that um the agreement can be um modified or extended up to two one-year terms. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> Okay. And if that occurs, will will any of that um action come back to council or is it it's just a part of this particular agenda item? >> It would authorize the manager to uh execute those um extensions um without it needing to come back to council. So the reason there are two extensions that the agreement is intended to to flow um over the same time period as the contract with PSS. Um and so PSS contract has a term with two one-year extensions. So clearly if we were not to execute either of those extensions, this agreement would also not be executed um because it is specific to the security provider for transit. It that is PSS at this point and that's why the term is written that way because it's commensurate or or mirrors the contract um terms that we have with with them. So, you know, we've heard a lot of uh information from constituents that they don't feel the presence of security um on the transportation system. Can you talk about the impact of when riders and residents will feel the presence of this resolution? >> Well, so so let me answer that. As as PSS has become our sole provider, they have consistently increased staffing and and changed approach to how they're conducting security activities throughout transit as we have executed the um additional the agreement with CMPD to bring in an additional 800 hours. All of those things are working together to create a stronger visual presence throughout the system including on the blue line. Um so so that is continuously increasing as we move forward. last week as we said um again a visual presence a significant increase of 800 hours with CMPD but um just last week uh PSS was able to hire and bring in new people as well. So that is continuing to increase and we acknowledge that there are there is more to do. Um and we will continue to increase visual presence throughout the system. Um as well as um increase fair enforcement activities and all of that will work together. Uh again we mentioned last week uh deployment of a bike unit for PSS as well as deployment as of UTVs to give them more mobility in certain areas of the system specifically along the rail trail. So all of those things are in work in works and being deployed over the next few weeks with bikes and UTVs as well as continued hiring and the uh additional CMPD presence. >> Okay. So, so the answer is now, right? We we should be feeling it right now, >> today, tomorrow, this week. Yes. >> I can also say that I I frequent um a light rail station quite often um in in Southoun and I can visually see the the effects. I see um CMPD cars there. I see more officers there than I typically would. So, thank you. Thank you for that. The other piece though is we also hear about timing, right? Um in particular in the evening and we've heard from um some some residents who are women that say they they feel they feel like they're potentially at risk this augmentation. Is it is it around the clock as as transportation runs and operates or is there specific targeted time periods or day parts? >> Yes. So, so for the CMPD um officers, it's across all shifts um during all parts of the day, the service day for us, which is approximately 20 hours. Um and so it is across all parts of the day, all days, all seven days a week. Um related to deployment of of PSS personnel. Again, they're looking at the data. They're looking at quote unquote hotspots and they're also looking at the districts and the needs of each of the districts that constitute specifically to the blue line that constitute the different areas that the blue line covers. Um, north, south, central, those things because the needs or the rhythm if you will of those different areas of the blue line are different. And so it's it's trying to pair the right uh response with the needs of each of the areas. >> Okay. Thank you. That's those are all the questions that I have. I just think this is a really important step for shortterm action. I know we're working on midterm and long range actions, but this is very important for the now that our residents and our transit riders can feel and see the increased safety. Thank you, Madame Mayor. >> All right, Mr. Driggs. >> Yes. Uh, so as we discuss this, um, I think people are watching us and they're thinking, where's the passion? Where's the energy? It's like, guys, there's a bit of a war going on right now. It may be a war of a public opinion. It may be a literal war of safety, but we're going to have to demonstrate a lot of commitment. Uh I think this step that we propose to take tonight is a good step. 800 hours is a good step, but it's a big city, a lot of people. So, we're it's going to take scale, something big. And uh that's that's going to be my engagement. So I will vote for this tonight for sure. Um but as we as we contemplate larger scale action, bigger impact, then we need to think a little more about how that works. What kind of money is involved? And also are we going to change the social contract? Are we going to change the way that we deal with people out there? Because one of the difficulties in my mind about a lot of this is uh you have people out who are not misbehaving but are uh potential potentially misbehaving or they make other people uncomfortable with their behavior. So are we going to get rough with them? How are we going to handle that? What are we going to do? Are the police going to be able to intervene when they see situations that they recognize from their experience are dangerous, but nothing has happened yet? Didn't actually see any drugs changing hands. Uh or that person is just sitting there right now, but I'm worried about that person. So, I'm just saying to you, uh uh I certainly am going to uh to think and and encourage us all to think on this larger scale. Uh I want to engage with the legislature, the general assembly. They are working now on uh legislation that they're talking about and frankly in my mind it's probably not enough. Okay. Uh we have a history of hearing about underfunded district attorney's office and courts. Uh I've engaged with leadership in Raleigh a number of times on this say why not you know you got a billion dollar surplus that takes 10 or 15 million dollars more. So, uh, I don't want to criticize anybody in Raleigh, but I'm just saying, uh, our message to them can be that, um, to to tell them what do we need, right? How do we feel that we can address this? We have to address it in a way that's sensitive to our local culture and our society. But I believe that a larger scale commitment is going to be required. Um and so uh this tonight is a good thing and we are doing the things that we can do very quickly. Other things that we may want to do will take a little more time. Uh the last point I'd like to raise Mr. Kagel is next year, right? Our goal is to have an authority and that changes everything. So what do you think that the uh the safety environment will be under the authority? Will they have their own police force? Will they work? Does this contract extend through the creation of the authority? How does that work? >> Well, I hate to predict the future, but I feel reasonably confident that if an authority is created and the transit is under a transit authority, there will be an independent transit police department. Because one of the reasons we have uh I think we should be clear about this. One of the reasons we have a contract with outside people instead of just giving $18 million more to CMPD is the the limitation on the ability of cats to police itself. Is that right? >> Yes, sir. >> Right. So, so th that will be different under the authority that will be different and that entity will have the ability to have uh its own police force and with any luck if the sales tax can pass it will have the resources that are necessary to make the system safe. So, I just want to put the plug in for the sales tax right there and say that that is going to be the environment in which this larger vision that we need for safety uh can be developed for cats. Thank you, >> Mr. Peacock. >> Mr. Kegel, I plan on supporting this this evening. Thank you. Um earlier, I just wanted to clarify in um in the actual resolution itself. It says to extend the extend the territorial jurisdiction of PPS beyond the real property or in the possession of the city which is utilized for transit purposes. Am I to interpret that that this includes all stations, not just the four that are listed in here? Meaning it's all stations along the light rail. any area around cats, you will have authority through PSS to be able to provide extra protection for citizens. >> So, this agreement pertains to the four transit centers uh and areas immediately adjacent to them and only those transit centers. We we already own the station platforms for for rail. Um and so this is about the rail trail in between. We do not necessarily own all of the property that the rail trail is on. So, this is those in between places, but the platforms are already Cat's property. The transit centers are already Cat's property. But we do find that there are some areas that are adjacent, directly adjacent, where we may see those activities being conducted or those activities may then come in and out of transit properties while while they're being conducted. And this allows um PSS to really assist police to continue their mission, right, which is making transit safe and eliminating those elements from transit. Um it is not to replace in any way um the mission of CMPD or the roles that they play. It's really there to support CMPD while also allowing PSS to do what we've hired them to do. >> What can PSS not do? >> So, right now PSS is contracted to CATS, which means they have authority on CAT's property, right? um because because we're we're contracting with them, this gives them a slightly larger footprint for enforcement activities. But but again, as as Miss Riff said, their certified law enforcement officers are law enforcement officers. They they go through the same training. They have those same abilities. It's really about the contract limitations and where they can conduct >> um those enforcement activities. >> Can a PSS officer enforce a fair that someone hasn't paid? >> And do they? They can. >> Yes and yes. >> Okay. >> Because the so fair enforcement is by definition conducted on cat's property on a vehicle um or on a platform. Um, so yes, they they have the authority to do that and they and they do do that. >> Okay. And so they could they arrest somebody on a train like we'd heard from many of our citizens who felt disturbed by people that are threatening them. If someone someone's threatening a rider and one of them are on a train, would they be there to help them? Can they respond the same way CMPD can? >> They do have their certified law enforcement officers have the same powers as as any other law enforcement officer. they can detain and make arrests. >> And when they write a ticket or they write infraction, is it done on CMPD paper or is it public record? Do we re do we see those? >> That is a civil citation. Um, certainly we have those records, but that is a civil citation that is written. >> Okay. Um, next question, Mr. Kaggel. um goes back to my first request and you've indicated to us in our response that you all are compiling along with the city manager my request for 36 months of history so that we as a council and Mr. Driggs brings up a great point on the bigger picture but the bigger picture of public safety has to do with where is the criminal activity occurring across all of our system. You told us last time we have 48 trains, we have four transit centers. Um we have a lot even more bus stations, but are you able to appine just broadly speaking where is the majority of the criminal activity occurring on cats right now? >> So criminal activity just like in our community occurs all over. It occurs throughout the system. Certainly, there are areas that um PSS and our security team in collaboration with CMPD that become hotspots at certain times a and they they respond accordingly, but these these incidents occur throughout the system just like they do throughout the community. um our security has the ability to respond and deal with those uh incidents when they come up and and we are working on that data for you. Um we're going back to 2022 so a little bit longer than the 36 months and we are pulling that data for you as well as the rest of the council and mayor. So, will council have the ability to help PSS to staff adequately if we notice that you have much more crime than than maybe we originally anticipated? I mean, where does the staffing model come from is what I want to know. I want to know how you all are determining where individuals are going to be placed along all of our light rail and along our bus system. >> PSS works through that. They are the professionals. That's why we hire them and their background. And so they're making those decisions on deployment and how to deploy throughout the system to protect the customers, the employees, the assets across the entire system. >> Okay. And just final question, Mr. Mr. Mayor. Um again, um it's just a question that I get from citizens. They ask me, "Why is CMPD not the primary law enforcement agency? Why are they not the only why are they not the first responders for all of this?" We have for many years had a corporate security model. Um this is not new in the last three years or the last 10 years I don't believe. And so this is the model that we have utilized. But again, we are working with PSS as part of this action and other things so that they can work really to be a transit police entity, right? Although they are contracted, this has been the model that has been deployed at CATS for for many years. >> Um, and I know your colleague behind you is our individual who came to us from Metro New York. Um, are those systems are they are those New York systems? Are they are they their own transit authorities? Um I know that we have one of our our officers with CMPD who is a former transit was on you know he was on a beat for much of his time in New York. So the >> I'm just trying to get to the visibility of cops on trains. This is part where I think the citizens are really confused. We have individuals that are riding these trains right now that people do not know why they're there. they don't feel safe and people want to know, are we responding to it with police, people with yellow vests? Um, are these like bobbies that you have in in London where they're carrying billy clubs? I I'd testified before that I'd saw somebody with with handcuffs and would look like mace, maybe a billy stick. I couldn't tell. Again, who's in charge here? And I think that's the part that we need real clarity from you guys as we move through theou and then we move to the next phase which is responding to all of these bodies that are requesting all this information. We've got obviously department of transportation, FTA, state of North Carolina. It's just like it just keeps coming guys and I'm waiting to hear like give me some confidence that this is going to change. >> We are responding to all of the agencies that you had referred to. We've already responded to the North Carolina State Auditor's office. We will be responding to FTA within the designated timeline. They gave us 15 days to respond. All of those responsors are going through and we are passionate about this, right? Um as as this council has said, there needs to be passion and energy around this and and this is what we are doing. Um, we are working together with CMPD and P, excuse me, PSS as we continue to increase visibility, but also look at other deployment strategies, technology based, as well as people. >> Okay, I'll let your colleague behind you answer the question, but I want to piggyback off what Mr. Graham had said as well, too. He's talking about wanting to have CMPD be a p play a primary role. Um, and I I I really don't care how we get to the destination of public safety if we have a combo here or we have one team moving forward, but I think everybody at this dis wants to make sure that we have a very visible presence on our trains so that we don't have a citizens forum that's filled with the majority of speakers who are feeling like all of transit and all of Uptown is unsafe. >> Yes, sir. So, I'll >> I'll let Eric respond. Oh, I'm sorry. >> Let me jump in. Okay. >> Okay. So, uh, thank you, Council Member Peacock. I think what's extremely important is a little bit of a level setting. So, um, we had this management partners study a few years ago that talked about transit systems throughout the country and ours is a little different in that it's not run by an authority. Uh years ago there were a lot of discussions about the halfsent sales tax, the current halfsent sales tax and what it can and can't do um in terms of the sustainability of cats and maybe call it a cliff. I don't know if it's 2028. I don't know if it's 2029, but at some point that half cent sales tax is not enough, >> right, >> to grow the system, expand the system, help with frequencies, and do a lot of the things that we've been talking about with mobility. uh in terms of the law enforcement piece, what we have as a system that has used these this contract and what we've learned recently and I think Brent I know Brent would agree is that in order for um the safety plan CAD safety plan to be fully implemented they were down about 30 officers and what we've done is with these 800 hours begin to supplant that. I think the key is the system can get better both from a safety standpoint, a frequency standpoint, modernization standpoint, innovation technology standpoint with additional resources. But without those additional resources, it's will become a very difficult conversation to start talking about shifting resources from CMPD to somewhere else. Last thing I'll say is that why this works so well is they're offduty assignments. So the supplemental hours are not taking away from any policing in any neighborhood across our community. So while it's a shortterm um we're addressing this on the short term and clearly we have to do more. I I believe that right now this combination is working given the environment that we're in and what we need. >> Okay. I I don't I I like that you're thinking through it in that manner, Mr. Manager. I'm What I'm concerned about is are we are we making this safer? And while we don't want to take CMPD resources out of the neighborhoods, per se, I'm hoping when you all provide us this data back to 2022, if we are seeing a lot of criminal activity on our trains, that CMPD will be heavily involved. Is that is that >> and then I'll I'll stop and but but I believe where you headed is make sure the resources are where the problems are much like we do in anywhere else. Right. >> Anywhere else. Exactly. Yes. So I agree. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Well, I just wanted to hear our difference between us and New York and and how they have cops and they have visibility and they enforce fairs, but yet we seem to be really light in that category. >> Yeah. So, I will I will answer it two ways. Um, one, New York City, the MTA is a transit authority. >> Two, they do have a transit police force. But the last point is fair evasion, >> crime, they they have those things, too. Um, absolutely. There was just a study that came out that estimated the MTA loses a billion dollars a year >> in fair evasion. Um so again this is not something that a closed system or an authority a governance structure um resolves. This is something that transit agencies across the country of all different sizes of all different governing structures of all different security enforcement structures. We're struggling with this. This is a nationwide thing and and Charlotte is included in that. And so I will say um as the manager said this is about how do we provide more resources today. We have started that um and we can demonstrate that that we have continuously added resources towards security um and towards state of good repair to the system um since 2022. Um, I can speak directly to that since 2022. Um, and we'll continue to do that because we also acknowledge that more can and needs to be done and we will continue that. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Again, I'm going to support this. Mr. Kagel, thank you for your detailed answers and um, this couldn't come soon enough. >> Miss Mayfield. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. First for clarification, we have the business identified as professional police services which is PPS even though multiple times we have said PSS. So for the records for our clerk's office it is PPS professional police services >> according to what we have on file. Now in the explanation we say under the proposed mutual aid agreement PPS will be authorized to enforce federal, state and local laws and have the authority to make arrests and issue citations within the expanded areas of jurisdiction of which we've identified the expanded area. With that Mr. Kaggel and or for the representative you will probably be tag teamaming. I have a couple of questions. So currently for level set we do have a policy not to stop individuals that are boarding our buses if they don't have the fair. Yet, we also need to recognize that it is always not the unhoused person that's riding our light rail without paying a fair. I want to make sure that we're not letting a narrative be created, that it is only our members who are unhoused that are writing our rail system without paying. We have plenty of individuals that seemingly could pay that just choose not to. And I don't want us setting up a precedent where we are giving space to profile anyone. But we made the decision previously for specifically bus cuz manager and I have had this conversations multiple times. I'm like people not paying the fair on the rail then just removed the cost for bus fair because the people who are riding the bus more likely are the ones who are actually utilizing public transportation for their major means and not just on getting uptown for convenience sake for clarification there's no civil service board oversight Mr. KGO, this would be for you. Instead, what the language I read stated says that a company police administrator is who would do the oversight. >> Yes, ma'am. The oversight is provided um at the state level, the state of North Carolina, through a company police administrator. And let me check to make sure I said that correctly. Yes. So for clarification, the responsibility and job of a company police administrator would be to defend the company, not necessarily the city. So I'm trying to understand what the oversight would look like. >> The company police administrator does not work for the company. >> It is a capital C company police administrator >> through the state of North Carolina who is tasked with overseeing these kinds of matters. if there are questions or or um uh uh concerns with misconduct. >> So for PPS, is there a duty to intervene policy? >> There is. >> Um >> just like with police, >> just like with the police. Yes, ma'am. So since we're going back to the company police administrator cuz currently right now if there were a concern regarding interaction with CMPD we have the citizens review board which also has an appeals process. So with PPS, what would that appeals process look like if there were a incident that resulted in harm and or fatality? So that that's two parts to that. Number one um any complaint any complaint of misconduct or criminal activity on behalf of any of a of a company police officer is investigated through the North Carolina Department of Justice. um is criminal justice uh education training and standards commission and a the company police administrator is over that entire program. So they actually regulate 74E which is what what gives police uh company police officers their commission. So if a company police officer you know for any type of misconduct or complaint arising from negligence or illegal activity that is investigated by company police. They have their own investigators um and they have the ability to revoke an officer's commission as a police officer. So that's who regulates company police. We don't have a civil service board. Uh but the but the complaints go directly to the state. >> So here's the challenge, one of many challenges, but one of the challenges that I have. There was a reason that the civil service board was created because there has been a long history regarding whether it is the FOP or others within law enforcement regarding how citizens mainly overwhelmingly black and African-American citizens and or our unhoused and poor citizens have been treated and we can take that back generations for why we have a civil service board. So to know that that will no longer be at a opportunity to try to help with identifying fairness is a concern for me. Will your company wear bodywn cameras? >> Yes ma'am. >> So who will be who is responsible for those body warn cameras? Or is your company funding and then we get access to those bodywn cameras or you're subject subject to the same rules where if media requests >> the camera footage how we have a time where period that it needs to be released would that be the same expectation and responsibility for your company? No, ma'am. It's a little different because we're private entity. So, no, it would we do have body warn cameras and we do cooperate with um with cats if there's any footage that needs to be pulled. We also cooperate with the district attorney's office um in regards to any cases that our officers are involved in. >> But you will not be subject to the rules that our CMPD are when there's a public records request. No ma'am, we would not fall under that again because we're a private entity. Public records requests are usually for government entities. >> So, just to clarify. >> Yes, please. >> So, beyond the body warrant cameras for PSS, PPS, same company, slightly different names, but your first question was what's the difference? They are both the same company and I apologize for referring to them separately but PPS so beyond their cameras cats has that are cats cameras over 3500 cameras in our system all of those cameras as the media well knows um are recording and and anyone whether it be the media or the public can and do do request that video and we provide it under open records law requirements. And so we have an extensive camera system on vehicles, throughout the platforms, throughout the network, throughout the facilities. um over 3,500 cameras that are that's different than than B than body warn cameras that um may be deployed with PPS officers, but all of that is uh subject to open records requests and we we frequently respond and provide video to those requests. >> So, Mr. Man, well, the manager stepped away. So when we think about the fact that if the community supports this transit tax and we're going to have an authority, how would if there is a instance that involves a resident, a visitor, whoever, and I hired security, what would be the role regarding open records request >> would they and manager I was going to put it into the ether, but what would it look like as far as if this were to pass in November and we go to an authority? Right now, it has been identified that this private entity even though they have body warn cameras because they are a private entity, they are not subject to the open records laws that we are. But Cass has multiple cameras and those cameras if request that information would will be released. What would that look like under an authority? >> I'm going to have to ask the the city attorney that. >> Yeah, it's very likely that that could still be covered through the contract that cats will have with the provider. it the cat could provide that any documents materials retrieved or or or or uh achieved during the conduct of the contract remains the property of cats I don't know we can look at that uh as a way uh to get it u there also can be a requirement that u the because the the the the police force is serving as the agent for caps that that as the agent they're working on behalf of cap cats and therefore the cats can dictate a little bit of the rules uh with regards to production of certain information that's gathered during the performance uh of the work that they're doing for cats. It's something that certainly can be looked at and evaluated uh and we can deal with that as well. >> I would appreciate a followup on that, Attorney Fox. So, we've shared a lot of whatifs and the possibilities. Exactly. How are we going to share this information that we have a private security company that very well will be on our trains for when we have visitors to the city. So like this weekend, yesterday we had a GR had a gang. Go Panthers. We finally won. So we have people coming in all the time, concerts and events. And unfortunately quite a few of those visitors have partaked of tailgating starting early in the morning. How and very well may be very belligerent. This isn't necessarily a unhoused member of the community because again I feel like we're putting a lot of energy on just one segment of our community when it's a much bigger issue. How is it going to be promoted inside the banners that run inside the train station around the train station? How are we going to promote that? You very well may see a individual that does not have a badge and the cat's logo, but is our actual security to make sure that we don't have an interaction that's going to negatively impact the city. >> Yes. So today the officers that PPS has are readily identifiable in uniform identifying them as transit security. Um that happens today. But we also have been thinking about how we can do better marketing um that's the wrong word communication to the public related to their roles and responsibilities. But again, their roles and responsibilities aren't really separate from CMPD. You know, if there is a CMPD officer in the south end and they see activities that shouldn't be occurring on a platform, they they intervene as well um and and assist um and vice versa. And so the security personnel that we have with PPS is readily identifiable. it it would be difficult to mistake them for anything but security personnel for the transit system. Um but we can certainly work um more on communications to the public. >> I think that would be helpful because as we look at the uniforms that our officers wear and unfortunately we're in a time and space where we have had individuals walking around the streets in a uniform that looks like it could be worn by a police officer. Unfortunately, on a national level, we have had to experience the loss of individuals who were representing our nation because the individual showed up in what they perceived to be was a uniform of law enforcement. So, you have individuals that do not have good intent. I want to make sure that we're at least thinking about how do we make sure that not only our residents but also the visitors can identify and if there's ways that if they have concern of an individual portraying someone that they're not because in this environment that we are in, we have all seen articles across the nation of individuals portraying themselves as as law enforcement. And we had a number of women come down and speak tonight. And a number of women across this nation have been assaulted, have been attacked by an individual that represented themselves as being connected to law enforcement that wasn't. So understanding me being able to understand what that marketing, what that advertising, what those markers are to make sure that our community is safe. That's something that I would like for us to take into consideration. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Mayor. >> All right, Miss Watlington. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um, there's been a lot of discussion here tonight. Um, I'm glad that some of the previous council members brought up that uh we need to go to the legislature u because I know we're talking about cats specifically right now, but as Mr. Kango has indicated and we as we have discussed several several times. This is a much bigger picture beyond transit and this recent tragedy um has driven national interest because it is truly shocking and heartbreaking. However, there are at least 42 other victims that we've seen this year in this city that didn't draw nearly as much interest. So, I just want to make sure that our passion, as was alluded to earlier, is purposeful and it's not political theater. We understand that we are in North Carolina. We understand that next year there's going to be an awful lot of activity here and in other states across the nation, but let's continue to be who we are as a community that can work regardless of party across the aisle as independents to do what's right for our community. Um, and I want us to stay and focus there because as we think about what we need for this city and for this community despite what you'll see on the media that we may be full of chaos or lawless or those kinds of things, we know that's not who we are. Um, so if we can keep our focus on the first things being first, I think that that's the best place to start. As I've been having conversations with uh many of our electeds and many of our community leaders in regards to these topics, I do want to lift up a few things that I hope are able to be discussed uh through our legislative agenda as Mr. Driggs alluded to before because we do need help from the legislature. We need uh help from the governor's office. We need help from the federal government as well. Um and so when we talk about things like sentencing considerations and requirements, that's been something that's been brought up many many times related to repeat offenders. that is not decided here at the local level. It's not even decided by judges. We need help from our legislature on that. So, Mr. Driggs, I imagine that you and others will continue to lead those conversations in a meaningful way because that's something that we can do um beyond what's currently on the bill. Uh when we talk about involuntary commitment conditions and who has the authority to call for involuntary commitment and how those things happen, again, does not happen here. We need support from the state legislature when we talk about the ability to conduct clinical assessments when people who are having challenges with mental uh health are uh detained and brought before our magistrates. There are things that we need to do there and investments that we need in order to ensure that there's continuity of care even in that uh environment. When we talk about DA funding, yes, as you mentioned, we've been talking for years about needing more district attorney support, but one thing that we have not been talking about and that we're still going to need is more support in the public defender's office because we need to ensure that these cases are able to be processed, not just from the district attorney's side of things, but also from the um from the public defender's office. When we talk about mental health, we cannot have that kind of discussion with seriousness without discussing Medicare and Medicaid and the defunding that we've seen over decades from the federal government and the legislature in our very own state um towards those services. We need help from the legislature there. When we talk about outpatient supportive services for people, even if they've been involuntarily committed, that lasts for a short period of time, less than two weeks often, and then where are they going to go? When we talk about jails and facilities and the capacity, we already know right now that we have issues there. We need funding. We need help from our legislature. When we talk about re-entry housing that I know council member Brown is an expert on, those are kinds of those are the kinds of things that we need support. Employment opportunities. When we talk about banning the box, those are the kinds of things that we need support not just at the local level, but at the legislature. So, I'm while I hate that we are having these conversations under these circumstances, I am very hopeful that this will lead to real change, not political change, but policy change. And so, Mr. Driggs, I I hear what you're saying and I hear your passion and I'm happy to continue to work with you to get real change at the level where that authority actually exists. Thank you, >> Miss Hashmir. might drop. >> Um, I appreciate what Councilwoman Watlington alluded to that we want real change, policy change, and not political theater. So, I'm really hoping something substantial will come out of this, not just at the local level, but also at the state level. Um, while um we can only control our local level. So, I'm going to uh have my remarks that are focused on the local level. Uh first, let me just thank um PPS and Mr. Kaggel. Thank you for laying out on the security improvements to keep our riders and our operators safe in such a short time frame. And I know that in past you past two weeks have been difficult uh for all of us especially for cats and um I appreciate how you have worked around the clock to help restore the confidence in our system. I was looking at all the safety improvements uh that have initiated. Having 800 hours of support from CMPD, having 20 officers, having PSS deploy more officers, um having fair enforcement, all of this has occurred in past two weeks. I think you so I want to recognize that um I talked about how we cannot let fear drive people away and what you have heard from our public forum and from citizens is that there is not just perception but a reality where a lot of people do not feel safe after this incident that has happened and just the It's unfortunate, but that means >> that we need to work harder to keep our riders safe. >> Um, Miss Rattley, if you talked about some of the training that PPS officers go through, uh, which is similar to what CMPD officer does. Uh, are they bound by the same standards of operations and procedures? Do they go through the same training academy as our CMPD officers do? >> So CMPD runs their own basic law enforcement training, but it is a state standard, right? Our officers go through the exact same state standard, but it's not through CMPD. Yeah. So many of our officers go through local colleges to go through the BL program, which is offered through Central Pedmont, also Mitchell College, Rowan U College. So there are different uh community colleges that offer um basic law enforcement training that our officers are going through and we do have a couple of retired CMPD officers to include myself that have been through CMPD uh BL. So >> um so we often talk about Mr. Manager recruiting and retaining our police officers and how we have a shortage of officers. Um so maybe Miss Rley if you can talk about how you are able to recruit um faster than we are. >> So that's a tough one. I don't know if I'm recruiting faster, but what we are doing is um we try to demonstrate what we're doing. And many people come up to us after seeing our officers and seeing how professional officers are and how well trained our officers are and disciplined they are. And they come to us and they're asking for opportunities. Some that have had training, some that are retired, some who are looking to go through it. Um but we also advertise on um um job job boards like Indeed um where we're we're actively recruiting for good um solid officers who are looking for an opportunity. >> Yes. Because I was looking at the security improvements presentation that Mr. Kaggel had done and just the increased amount of security presence in past two weeks and just uh how we have ramped up hiring more officers. I mean that speaks a volume to your ability to recruit and uh retain the talent that you have but then also fill the gap that we have that I know that does exist. Um you know we we appreciate that. U in terms of to follow up on council member Mayfield's question about policy. Do PPS officers do they have instant activating holster monitors like CMPD officers do? >> We do not. I think that's through Axon. Right. So we you utilize a different um provider for our uh BWC cameras. Um so we don't have that now but that is technology we are looking into. One thing I will say, uh, Council Member Emeira, um, I I know that, uh, August 22nd was was a terrible day that shook the community, but I will say, um, December 14th, 2024 was was a very important day for us. That was the day that we consolidated the contract with EPS. Um and they have been working diligently not just in the last two weeks but really um from the beginning of our relationship to meet the needs to help uh secure transit to make it safer for our passengers. um but also to hire. And so I I do want to say I think that the last two weeks have um certainly created an emphasis and the basis for all of the conversation and really put us with an eye forward. But that has been going on uh much before that as we continue to move forward. And so some of those things that you see over the last two weeks that they're moving quickly because they've actually been moving for a while. And so those those processes were in place and were already going. All right. And Mr. Keaggel, you talked about fair enforcement and will PPS be doing that fair and fair enforcement or would that be a cat's employee >> for now? fair enforcement and traditionally fair enforcement has been a function of the contract of the contractor. So yes, PPS will continue doing that. They just had a fair blitz last week, I believe, and they'll continue doing that um until we can staff up. What we're seeing is many transit agencies are having better success by creating um a fair inspection unit of and so we would view that as an in-house um uh cat's employees who are supported by security as they're conducting their duties which are focused on fair inspection. But that is as we move forward but for now PPS will keep doing that at PSS. Um, so I know when we look at this agreement specifically,ou it talks about patrolling areas adjacent to the city- owned properties uh, city-owned transit assets I should say. Um, so currently who is patrolling that area? Is that CMPD? >> Yeah. So CMPD patrols the city. Um, right. >> So, I think a question was this feels like it was a one-way agreement, uh, PSS or PPS with the city. That that is exactly accurate. It is. Um, this agreement isn't necessary for CMPD because they they patrol the city and so anything outside of the contracted jurisdiction, i.e. transit properties. Yes, primary responsibility unless there's another entity that would um um take on that role. For example, UNC Charlotte. We have a station at UNC Charlotte. So, primary responsibility beyond our platform would be the UN Charlotte police force. >> Yes. So, so the reason I bring that up because I see confusion when it comes to two entities, PPS and then you have CMPD. To council member Graham and Council Member Peacock's point, where we have two separate entities patrolling areas adjacent to the city, uh, adjacent to CAD's facilities. Um, we need to have clear communication as to who is the point of contact. Um because I can see that create that creates confusion and >> go ahead. Sorry. >> Go ahead. >> Well, I would say that I I I understand um I understand um that that is the perception, but I will say that I believe in the field right on a day-to-day basis um that is not the reality. PPS uh works closely with CMPD uh the liaison who are dedicated to transit as well as the rest of the officers. And so I I I I believe that this helps clarify that and build on that collaboration. But I don't think that there is sort of a lack of understanding as the officers are doing their job about what their job is and how to do that. Um and and I think that this mutual aid agreement just extends that and furthers those efforts to create clarity. >> Um and I know Mr. Driggs talked about limitation of cats to police itself. Could you elaborate on those type of limitations? >> So well I do. So today, so I think we were talking about if there is a transit authority and and what that future state could look like. And again, I don't want to try to predict the future. If I if I could do that, um I' I'd be doing something else right now. But um what I would say is I I do think as we think about a transit authority as a separate body, it's reasonable to believe that as a separate body, they will have a separate police department. Um and so I I don't know that I characterize it as limitations, but I will also reiterate what the manager has already said. When we think about limitations today, um if there is not additional funding in the future, I I think we will be having conversations about limitations and what that looks like between how we spend the dollars and the services we provide. um there and I and as the manager said, I don't know when that conversation is, but I I do suspect that that conversation will be coming because there is a limited amount of funds um to provide the services uh we provide. >> Okay. And just one last question, Madame Mayor, I was looking at upcoming security improvements slide. Um Mr. Kaggel and you mentioned in the week of September 26 UTVs in service for hard to access areas. So that's Can you elaborate on that? >> Uh UTVs are small I'm going to call them golf cart like vehicles. That's probably a terrible description, but that's what it I think of. Um and they are able to access station to station along the um rail trail where it's it takes you more time to get in a vehicle to get around to each of the stations because of how uh the blue line especially in the south end is really integrated into into the businesses and the communities and the traffic and all of those things. And so a UTV and a bike patrol are designed to give uh faster response and deployment and better visibility throughout the system, especially in those areas, but also in areas across uptown. Um uh where it's it's more difficult to use a traditional vehicle than to have than to use a rail trail. >> So would this be operated by BPS? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um and also you in the in this security improvement slide you got established fair zone at CTC uh that will be implemented in late fall. So are we looking at some infrastructure improvements? >> Yeah. So basically when we think about the CTC there were two steps. One is almost complete remove the um concessions right remove the restaurants the the there was a convenience store as well. remove those so that the purpose for being at the CTC is solely transit. The second um along with other things, lighting and other environmental design things, but the second most fundamental thing is literally to put a line around the CTC that says fair zone. So, if you go to our platforms today, you'll notice a blue line on the ground that says fair zone around all of them. And inside of that line is a fair zone and outside of it is not. the CTC will have a line around it literally stating fair zone. We we need that so that it is clear delineator of where the fair zone begins and ends. >> So um yes this will certainly help uh in terms of security enhancement and I know we talked about open system versus closed system and this will certainly be a step in the right direction to keep our riders and our operators safe. So that's all I have. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. All right. So, Miss Johnson. >> Oh, thank you. >> Do you want to go next? Okay. >> Should I have said everything and some? >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. So, um and thank you for the presentation. How much will this resolution cost? This res resolution does not have a cost. The cost of the contract is a separate matter, but this resolution does not have a cost. It does not increase or change liability coverages uh in the contract. This is a Z resolution, but because it's a municipal agreement, it comes before this body for uh approval. >> So there's no cost for the expansion of service services. This is a this there is no cost associated with this uh municipal uh mutual aid agreement. >> Okay. And what about the 800 hours for the CMPD officers or the 20 officers? Is that are those offduty officers? >> Yes. >> So there's a cost associated with that, right? >> Absolutely. So, has that information been pres So, speaking of that, we asked for a report um about the the number of crimes that have been committed on the trains, on the bus or surrounding areas. Um Mr. Peacock asked for that. You said the last three Oh, he's not here. Last three years. I I asked for that. Um I believe Councilwoman um Mayfield and Ashmir also asked for that. So, I want to talk to Mr. Jones. This crime happened, this crime and and we're saying national, but this was international. >> Excuse me. >> And this happened on 8:22. That's been 30 days. I don't know any other organization where if the board of directors asked for this type of information, it wouldn't be available when there's this type of scrutiny on us. So, I would ask for that information and I think that we would um our our residents expect us to have that if we're going to be making changes. Anytime you make changes or improvements, you want to measure your current situation. So, I I think it's a fair ask, Mr. Jones, if we know how many crimes have been committed on the um in the cat's system in the last um three years, you know, we we hear from public and some and some people would say had we acted sooner, it might have it might have saved her her life. So, um I'd like that information. Can you just touch on that please? >> So, I think I'm I'm correct with this, Brent, help me out. Um the way the data are reported are two different ways to the FTA and the FBI. Had we given you the first run, I think the data would have been incorrect. So now we have had an opportunity to look at it again and um I think we'll have this to you as early as tomorrow if I have that right printed. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> Well, no. asking about did I get it right in terms of the way the data are reported between the FBI and >> so I won't say it's incorrect but there is a challenge and and believe me we are working very hard on this it's a reasonable ask of the council and of the community how we think about crime is usually in context to how CMPD reports it is in context of national standards through the FBI how criminal activity is reported in transit via the FTA is different and that goes into what's called the national transit database. And so we are parsing through that understanding that the way most people think about criminal activity or crimes is usually in the lens that we're all accustomed to FBI standards, national standards. And and this is slightly different with NTD or National Transit Database. It does not mean that the uh data is inaccurate. It just means that we need to be thorough as we pull that together for you and the community to provide you uh the full and complete answer to the question. But clearly it is a reasonable question and we are working very hard on getting you that answer. >> Thank you. >> And thanks for cleaning that up. >> And it's beyond you as another question. >> That's okay. It's beyond reasonable. it it's expected and there's a culture of lack of transparency and this kind of just speaks to it and council we're held accountable for it you know on the campaign trail we were beat up over certain things I can speak for myself and and it's when we are trying to get this information and we're not able to so we need your help with that Mr. Jones also I wanted to ask um Mr. Kaggel do you know how long you've been the interim u director of cats I I don't know months. I will tell you the month that I started. December 2022. So I I' I haven't run that roughly three and a half years. So December 2022. December 1st, 2022 was my first official day as your interim cat. >> Two and a half. >> Two and a half. >> Two and a half. >> All right. Two and a half, right? So again, I would just speak to the culture when we talk about what council can do or what the city can do. These are the kind of things that are under our purview. We're talking about state laws and all of that, but what are what bold action are we as council willing to make? And when we don't take any action, it it it seems as though we're subscribing or supporting um in action. So, I I would just put that out there to my colleagues. I'm happy to see the referral. Thank you, mayor. That these referrals are important. Um, but you know what? We have to ask ourselves as council members, what is under our purview or we can make changes. Um, will there be an officer on each train? Is is that the goal? >> That that is not feasible today. as we continue to develop strategies. I do not believe that will be feasible in the future, but that is clearly not feasible today. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, will these officers have qualif uh qualified immunity? >> So, I at I do not want to give you a legal answer. As I understand it, qualified immunity is a federal concept that applies to certified law enforcement personnel, but that's as far as I would want to go related to qualified immunity. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I would like to see a cost an well a cost analysis on what the the difference would be for a CMPD officer. um to handle the security versus PSS. I'm thinking PSS is going to be uh much more feasible and efficient, especially we know we're so understaffed with CMPD officers. We met with the FOP and they they give us numbers as high as, you know, quite high, five or 600. So I it may not be practical, but I'd like to if you can if someone can provide the difference so that we can provide that information to the public because there are members of the public that would you know there's been some talk about CMPD officers. So I'd like to have justification or documentation on what the difference would be. >> Sure. We we can provide that. I will point out and I think this is important. I think as we move forward, whether there's a transit authority or there's not, the offduty assignments, the 800 hours, it is standard practice. >> It's it's not an eitheror. It's a both and transit agencies. It's not an eitheror. Um, and so to think about what the role of CMPD is going forward or uh, uh, uh, other law enforcement agencies, um, it's really about how to strike the balance and the roles of law enforcement and security. Think about it in context of of the airport or other transit agencies, right? It it's not it's not either or. It really is both and. And so we can work to in fact that is one of the things that we we will recommend or do recommend going forward is continuing the evaluation of striking that right balance. But I think it's a it's a little bit more complicated than just what would it cost to make PSPS all CMPD. It's really what is that right mix and we can we can work on that. We absolutely will. And that makes sense because they're obviously able to onboard, you know, they can recruit, but it's the onboarding process where I think that that we lose individuals. And I've talked to the chief about this um a while back like and actually dissected the process, where are we losing candidates. So, if we can take a look at that report again to find out if there's an area that we can make changes um to make it simpler to on board officers, I think that that I mean it shows that it potentially can be done. I imagine those officers have the the physical test and the you know the background and lie detector and all of that. So we can certainly um take some notes and get some information from this company. So thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. >> And then lastly, I will talk about Dr. Watlington. I'm excited that this is coming to the safety committee. Um this is a big problem and we are passionate and we do care. I the IBC process is is broken. So, you know, we t Yes, there was a tragedy on 8:22, but there was also one on 828 when there was an officer involved shooting for a young person that their family member tried to get an involuntary commitment order the day before and they were denied. So the the IVC process if if that person if that magistrate had issued that IVC process, the family member knew that that person was struggling. And so then on the 28th um the family had to call the police and then that person pulled a weapon out on the police officer. So then he was shot. He did live but now he's charged with attempted murder on a police officer. So again, there's another person that should not have been in the community. So I look forward to this process. Um Dr. Wellington, when we bring folks to the table, let's definitely take a look at this IBC process. I don't know what the history was for uh the Carlo Brown and the and the involuntary commitment, but it's definitely an an area how we how we can get folks the help that they need because it does save lives. That's all I have. Thank you. All right, Miss Molina. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um, there's been so much said tonight. First of all, thank you guys for the information. I think um I think with the death of Ireina, our city is looking at some some very important decisions as far as public safety in our transit lines. Um it's to be completely transparent to to look at the national landscape and see Charlotte there. Um it's a bit heartbreaking to see the city that we all love so much um being, you know, um elevated and and so much um discussion around what we intend to do at the municipal level. I have always envisioned municipal leadership as the most nonpartisan leadership that there is. Streets aren't partisan. Public safety is not partisan. It doesn't matter where you sus, you know, subscribe politically. Everyone deserves public safety. Everyone deserves road infrastructure. Everyone deserves affordability. and being at the municipal level is the most grassroots level of all in my opinion. Um, and within the scope of our ability as municipal services, what I find is, you know, it's tough because since this did happen in Charlotte, you know, even though it's intergovernmental, even though there's so many dynamics, um, we own it. Um, we own it as a city, we own it as a municipal government. Um, and now our responsibility and our complete challenge is to bring an intergovernmental lens to something that is so very important, like I said, regardless of where you sit politically, what your race or ethnic background is, um, or or anything like that. And so what I'm looking forward to first off is um I know that our state legislative partners are having responsible conversations right now around Ireina's law and what that will mean about delegating additional resources for there to be levels of accountability once our you know public or private law enforcement um intentions are manifested where that you know where be it someone who is breaking a law etc. um we are going to need intergovernmental um cooperation and I think that's been said more than once around the deis um I um I I had a lot of questions but a lot of the questions were already answered with regards to CMPD and this being a private service um and just to set expectations for the public and their consumption um this is a contract this isn't a permanent solution. Um, just reiterating, I'm I'm one of those people who believe in iterating the details to make sure that that consumption is, you know, well taken. Um, that's set to expire in 2026 with the possibility of extension. Um, this is areas adjacent to the CTC um, which is the transit transit center in Uptown. um East Trade Center, the the sidewalks, the entire rail trail. Um and then Eastland and the Rosa Parks Community Center. Is that right? So that's basically everything that we have that's transit related. Is that right, Mr. Kagel? >> Primary facilities plus the blue line and then the East Trade is the gold line. >> That's what that's referring to. >> Okay. Um, let me ask you this because I I know that this is your professional opinion. Are we doing right now everything that we can with this or is there something different that the council should be considering? >> We are taking action. We have been taking action and we'll continue to take action and we acknowledge there's more that we can do and we're committed to doing it. And so, yes, right now we are taking action. um August 22nd and before we were taking action and we'll continue doing that into the future. Um I think when it comes to security, right, you're never done. Um you're constantly evaluating, analyzing the data, understanding the needs, and you're making those changes. And so I I think the simplest answer is yes. We are taking action and we'll continue to do that. and our security approach will continue to evolve into the future as we meet the challenges to come. >> I like that answer. Um, Mr. Kaggel and actually Mr. Jones, I the one thing that I've also enjoyed about service at this level is getting to know our law enforcement officers and the sacrifices that they make in the pursuit of our public safety. Um and I and I'm heartened to see an opportunity for them to continue service. Uh a lot of them that I've met along the way have retired very very early. What I would consider to be I mean if you start with CMPD you know um >> 20 years >> 20 years old you're retiring in your 40s which you're extremely young right with so much vibrancy and ability to continue service. Um, and and I'm heartened by the idea that a lot of these partners are some of our own and some that have come from other locations. >> Um, I I do trust that. Um, I'm encouraged by that. I would personally like to have our state legislature consider ways that for the officers that would like to continue service with CMPD. Uh ways for them to continue. Sir, I think I've brought this up to you more than once, Mr. Jones. Uh because I' I've seen quite a few of our officers retire really, really early, what I feel to be early, and they're still great human beings with so much service left. So, you know, I see this in one light as a continuum of our public safety um uh leaders to continue service with us, but I I'd like to see us in the future look at how we do that in a way that um you know, maybe reorients that talent. Maybe it's a conversation that we have at the state legislature. I think we will need their partnership in order to right now. I think what life is teaching us is that public safety is one of our top priorities and how do we make sure that we continue to look for innovative ways to create that staff pipeline and keep that staff pipeline vibrant, right? Um I know with friends and family that serve in our military and actually I was going to commission myself as an officer so I know quite a bit. Um, I like I said, that level of service and and keeping that continuity is is something that, you know, I've spoken to the manager about multiple times and I'd be particularly interested in, you know, how we get creative about keeping our pipeline strong with our officers and the talent and and things of that nature. But you know based on the discussion and and your professional opinion and understanding that you know the one thing about a a project baseline is that it has key milestones where we monitor and control that baseline right and we make modifications and like I said there's no especially in the wake of such a tragedy that has drawn such attention I don't know if there is a definitive we have the answer right um I would like to earn in you know on an interim basis the trust trust of our community as they look at us and realize that we're adept enough to make responsible decisions. Um, and I do feel confident enough to say based on some of the discussion and the milestones we intend to meet that this is a great step in the right direction. You know, notwithstanding that there's more to do. So, um, I appreciate the work. Um, I look forward to continuing the conversation about our um, public safety pip, you know, our public safety pipeline because I think that's a very important question um, and and conversation to entertain. Um, and um, I I'm hopeful. I'm very hopeful. Um, thank you, Mr. Kaggel. Mr. Manager, >> thank you very much, Miss Brown. >> Yes, my colleagues have said everything a lot. They've said a lot. I do want to add though that CMPD uh shouldn't be a sole provider of of safety in our city. I say that every time, all hands need to be on deck. And because I'm so so close connected to the marginalized community and as Dr. Watlington has said community of second chances uh re-entering back CMPD they're great human beings but they have their hands completely full and um m Mr. Kegel, thank you so much for all the hard work that you do. I have a question for you. Did you connect with CMPD? Is there some data with CMPD to make the decision to cover the transit without having CMPD involved? What details went into that? I'm just curious to ask that because I know that CMPD um they're busy and you call 911 and now you go on hold. So, I'm just >> I wouldn't completely be opposed to CMPD. They they control the whole city. 900,000 plus people and then 157 people moving into the city daily. We're going to we're going to have a lot of crime >> and crime is going to continue to be out of control that comes with a big city. I like to see the blueprint and the specifications that we're putting down to control it. But I that question for CMPD was this a collaboration to say that you're going to hire the the private security team or was it something that the city just made a decision to do? >> So, so the private security the decision for >> theou >> predominantly using private or company police has been a decision that's been in place for for many many years. Um what we do is collaborate with CMPD and I will say that collaboration that cooperation has become stronger over the years as we're working together to provide security safety not only throughout transit but throughout the community. Right? Because many times there's not a it's hard to tell the difference, right? Cats is part of the community and the community is part of cats. It's all together. And so the the company police model has been utilized by cats for many many years. Um I'm not sure how far back it goes but clearly as uh we have continued moving forward that has always been and will continue to be together with CMPD as partners because really PSS PPS their mission and CMPDs is the same. Right. So, you can't take CMPD out of the equation anyway because they're the sworn officers to serve and protect in this great city that we live in. However, I just wanted to have that question of being isolated specifically to theou and because we're heightened in the spotlight now because of of what recently happened, which is is a is a a tremendous tragedy, but you know, so was Jace Edwards. You know, that what happened to the four-year-old. I'm not going to excuse what happened to the four-year-old not long ago. and and and his family. And then we lost one of our own, one of the cat's drivers. So, it's it's to me the the scales have to be balanced and they're way unbalanced for um an incident that blew up, rightfully so, because it was a tragedy. But I'm be remiss to say there's been more tragedies that I've seen since I've been sitting on council. And I when you laid out the safety plan for us um in one of our meetings, I went down the list on how many incidents we had had in in cats, you know, that were really tragic. So colleague said everything. There's a lot of stuff being said. I wanted to point out that CMPD does need help. You call 911, you get put on hold. You know, they're they're stretched wide and far and and all over this city trying to do everything. I've always been the one that said C CMPD can't do everything in the city. You know, they do great work, but having all hands on deck is what we should be moving to the model. And then with 157 people moving here, I want everybody to hear this. Just listen out of the sound of my voice. There's going to always be crime and it's going to continue to happen. We have to see how we can control it. But if you think it's going to go away all night, you might think again. It's not going to happen. It comes with having a big city. Thank you, Mr. Mitchell. Uh, >> thank you, Mayor and Council. Uh, and to my colleagues, I just think it's been great points made, great conversation. Miss Ratliff, uh, let me thank Professional Police Services for being a committed partner with us. Um, this is very important to all of us. You can tell by the comments as we restore confidence uh, with our passengers on our light rail and our transit system. And so, I I want to echo Mayor Pro, Tim Quest, and Brent. Um, we need action immediately so it could be visible so people feel more comfortable. What I would like to suggest, uh, mayor and city manager, maybe at our October business meeting to give a update. I don't think this should be the last time we have this conversation or or get data back. So, I think maybe having an update where we are at our October business meeting will be helpful not only to us, but to our citizens as we continue to make sure we move in the right direction. Uh Bren, thank you for your honesty. I I think we had a conversation from Secretary Fox at Tuesday morning breakfast and he talked about there's not a perfect transit system in America. >> And I think what we need to continue to do is make this one better. And this is step one. Um I think having relationships with some of our delegation is step two from a positive standpoint. Um and then there's a funding. I I I appreciate my C council member Driggs putting it out to the table very early to our citizens. If we want to continue to make sure we have a safe transit system, it's going to cause us to have a great budget conversation in next June. And so we all around this DS need to get prepared for that. Citizens, you need to get prepared for that how that might look. But I'm glad that we having the conversation and um let let's continue to do our very best and make sure our passenger feels safe on our light rail system. Thank you, mayor. >> Thank you. Thank you to the entire council for the opportunity that you've taken to speak with our cats folks. I do too want to say PPS, um you have done a tremendous amount of work. Um people we we're at a situation where I think Bren and I went through this in a way when we had the derailing of the cause. Remember that's happened and how difficult that was. But this is about human human life. And so I believe that the work that you do is especially important because it is where you have to meet people where they are. And that means sometimes that it will be good. It might not be the best, but I hope that everyone understands that we're trying to do this with people in in the first place and then how they are treated and what we can do to make sure that they are able to continue to live in the city city, but also the ability for you to help protect them. It's not just about, you know, taking someone out of it. It is about how do we make sure that they can stay in. So, I really appreciate that and um thank you very much for the work that you've done. Now, I believe that um I'm trying to remember if there was a motion, but I think I'm going to read it again. For item 11, there was a motion to adopt a resolution to expand the jurisdiction of Professional Police Services, Inc., DBA professional security services in areas adjacent to city-owned transit assets and authorizing the city manager to negotiate amend and aid agreement with the professional services inc to um do this. So we have a motion on the floor. >> There was a motion. >> There was a motion on the floor and we had a second from right. So all in favor please raise your hands. >> Thank you. I believe that's unanimous. So, let's um thank you very much for the work that you're doing and we look forward to the results that we need to make for all of our city citizens. Okay. So, the next item on our agenda is a municipal agreement for Brown Greer Road upgrades project. Um >> move for approval A and B. Mayor >> second. >> We have a motion for A and B and a second. Is there any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor of the motion, please raise your hand. Is anyone object? Hearing that. So we'll move on to the next item. Um the item is 13. Adopt a resolution authorizing the manager to execute a municipal agreement with the North Carolina Department of Transportation to accept surface transportation block grant direct attributal funds in the amount of 15 million plus a little bit more. >> Move for approval. A and B. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Is there anything anyone have anything that they'd like to add? Hearing none. All in favor of the motion, please raise your hands. Is anyone opposed? No one is opposed. Our next item, um item 14 is a donation and that's going to be deferred until our next business meeting. >> We're deferring it. >> I'm sorry, Miss Mayfield. >> No, I was clarifying. We're deferring this item. >> Item 15. 14. I'm sorry. 14. Item 15, there is a motion to adopt a resolution authorizing Charlotte Water to apply for funding from North Carolina Clean Water State Revolving Fund in an amount not to exceed $10 million for the construction of the Ash Plantation lift force lift station force Maine. And do I have a >> motion to adopt A and authorize B? >> Second. All right, we have a motion. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor? Thank you very much for staying this long to be a part of that vote. So, um, is there anyone that opposes? >> All right. >> Okay. >> Hearing none. All in favor? >> We didn't vote. >> You didn't vote. >> You did it. You did it. Okay. The next one is item 16, authorizing the city manager to apply and accept a grant from North Carolina Department Public Safety's Hazard Mitigation Grant Program. And then approve. >> We have a motion and we have a second. Any discussion? All in favor, raise your hand. Thank you very much. 17. Adopt a resolution authorizing the city manager to transfer property to the North Carolina Railroad Company as a part of an exchange required by the city's lease with the North Carolina Railroad Company. >> Move for approval of A and B. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing no discussion? All in favor? Anyone opposed? Okay. Thank you. The next item is item 18. Is there a motion to approve construction contracts in a cumulative amount of 1.7 million for the development of four affordable single family homes with accessory dwelling units on city- owned parals? Do I have a motion? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Do we have a And we have a second. Is there any discussion? All right. We have Miss Mayfield. And Miss Mayfield. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. I'm waiting for staff. I'm giving them a chance to get to the podium. Give me staff a chance to get to the podium. >> And Miss Hefner, how are you doing? >> Thank you for joining in like y'all are. >> Thank you, Director Hefner. So, for clarification, this request is to fully fund the construction of housing using our ARPA dollars. This is not a percentage of the construction which I will say I have a challenge with that they're coming to us to ask for the total cost to build >> a few households. So I just wanted clarification of understanding that that's what these requests are for. >> Sure. Thanks for the question. Good evening y'all. Rebecca Hefner, director of housing and neighborhood services. Uh so this is actually the accessory dwelling unit pilot program separate from uh the program that's rolling out this week, the full program. Uh you all will recall we've been talking about this for a couple of years because actually piloting ADUs is uh a very challenging activity. So, this is the city utilizing city-owned land, uh, three infill part parcels in existing neighborhoods to pilot the construction of a single family home with a detached accessory dwelling unit. So out out of this investment, you would uh get four affordable home home ownership uh units and four rental units in the ADUs. So the the we asked we put out the RFP meaning that we we asked for the cost of construction. We pay for that construction and then the units with ADUs will be sold to eligible House Charlotte households. So then some of that money also comes back in to the city and revolves into future investment in the uh in the ADU program. For clarification, EIX development is asking for 880,000. That is for them to fund two two homes that will then be sold. 420,000 is for the construction of one home. 400,000 is for the construction of one home through the opera dollar. So, this isn't hitting our trust fund dollars. I want to be clear that there's no crossover there, but we are funding the full construction of these homes for them to then be sold. What I of which I would then think that these homes are going to be sold under this amount since what our 80% AMI is cuz 420,000 is market rate. That is the cost that you can go into the market now where nine out of 10 chances especially since we have used government land that we have donated towards this that we're paying the full development cost for these to then be sold at a price for our workforce to be able to afford it. Meaning they're going to be sold under the amount of construction. >> That's correct. So subsidy will remain in the property as this is a demonstration. You it's a pilot. It's a demonstration. Uh these are not the these are not the most accessible lots you can find. Um it's not the most uh cost effective uh lots that you can find out in the community. But we're advancing this as a recommendation from the nest commission uh to to pilot and to demonstrate to the community one how an ADU uh can fit into the existing community character uh how we can create revenue source for a low-income homeowner because that it's not just the single family home, it's plus the ADU. Um, so we're we're demonstrating how that works. It's even demonstrating how how you get a how you get a mortgage on a home and ADU. So there's a lot of moving pieces to the pilot. I appreciate that. I look forward to council receiving a update once these sell that to let us be able to track who was able to actually qualify and benefit from this to see if this was the strong investment that we hope for. >> And I and I will add that because this is city-owned land, uh you you will actually get to see this again when the properties are conveyed to homeowners. And so this will be house Charlotte eligible homeowners meaning uh 80 maximum 80% AMI. >> Slow down cuz you creating another conversation because I need us to have as much transparency as possible. We're getting ready to pay these three developers using opera dollars for them to build these. So we're cover we're paying you to build these. they're going to be sold and then we're saying that potentially when they sell of which they should be selling under market anyway that the individuals who may be applying who whether they go through Dream Kill or one of our other partners that they will then also be able to act to access our down payment assistance because again let's just think I done paid I don't I done built your developer, you ain't build. We already paid for this. So then we're going to sell this in theory. Okay, it's going to be sold on the market. We done. But what we're saying is we have paid this money for you to build it and then when it's time for it to be sold, we are going to assist third party you to be able to buy this that we already paid for. That's gonna be a much longer conversation to explain that logic to me because I'm not understanding why I've already paid for the creation of something that is basically to help community. But community, I'm telling you, you need to buy this, but we're going to help you buy this. This should already be paid for because I've already paid for it in the construction. So, >> so House Charlotte eligible buyers doesn't necessarily mean that they're leveraging the city's down payment assistance. It means that they are a household at 80% AMI. So, yes, subsidy will remain in the units and they will be sold according to the program eligibility. I look forward to seeing what that sale looks like to ensure that we get it to our community that's most in need. And I truly hope that whether it's three months or seven months from now, there is not a request for money for any of these properties that we just paid for. Well, you will get to see it again. So, this is one of those situations where uh you you take one action now and another one later to to ensure that. >> I think the manager heard me. >> I did. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Miss Johnson. >> The explanation. >> Thank you. I know. >> Thank you. Thank you for the questions right now. Okay. So, >> I wanted to understand because we've approved or I recall discussing an ADU pilot before, right? So, is this an extension of that or is this phase two? >> So, in in let's see September October 2023. >> Okay. you approved uh $5.9 million of ARPA funds to support a range of recommendations from the Nest Commission. Included in those recommendations was to fund uh accessory dwelling units, including the pilot program. So, we have been working for several years to develop the pilot program. Uh, and we've we've done that in fits and starts, meaning we would take one, you know, it's a pilot, we would go down one avenue and run into a barrier and pivot. And so this is the this is the result of the pilot. Um, we pivoted to you the utilization of cityowned land uh in order to move the pilot forward. But this funding 1.7 million is a part of the overall 5.9 million investment that city council approved for those nest recommendations. And this one comes back to you, of course, because it's a construction contract. Okay. So, you all know I'm from Columbus, the original 14th largest city, right? And >> I got knocked down. Yeah, we got knocked down, which is fine, but we have experience in in doing things. So that we had a a land bank where citizens could access city- owned land, >> right? So when we had this pilot discussion before, it was important that to me and I recall residents having access to the pilot dollars >> because when we talk about equity and fairness, you know, it's like the rich get richer, right? And where are the opportunities for everyday folks? So I remember residents having access to this pilot. It doesn't appear that we're we're doing that now. So I I want to understand like Councilwoman Mayfield. So the developers, they're developing and and building the home. So they'll they're going to get paid obviously, right, for the purchase of the home >> for the construction. This is for the construction contract. So, one thing that's a little bit different is that typically we put out the city-owned land when it's larger parcels for developers to um to give us a proposal and for the development and then they rent or they sell. This is a little bit different because we're doing it as a pilot. We the city is contracting for the construction. So yes, the con this construction company will be paid for the cost of building the home and each accessory dwelling unit and then those units will be sold to lowincome homeowners >> or 80%. >> 80 low low moderate so 80% AMI and below homeowners. So the ultimate recipient of the subsidy and the benefit and the ongoing benefit of owning and managing the ADU goes to homeowners. >> So the homeowner will own the ADU also. >> Yes. >> Okay. So they they'll own the the parcel. >> Yes. >> So what restrictions will they have as far as the land and selling the property? So they again they'll have the same restrictions as you would see in our um in our uh House Charlotte program. So it they'll have deed restrictions for the length of the forgivable loan. So the forgivable loan is a 30-year term. Uh and then the the ADU is a deedrestricted rental unit. So income restricted and must be rented to a low or moderate income tenant. So that's how you end up with two affordable units on each property. >> Okay. So we'll require >> we require the homeowner to rent to a specific requirement, I guess, right? Okay. >> And then I I want to understand the $880,000 um contract also. So, will the the this developer need to sell the property um at $880,000? >> No, the property is not being conveyed to the developer. >> So, this is one parcel. It will be it will be subdivided into two uh lots. So, there will be two single family homes each with an accessory dwelling unit. And the the develop the land is not being conveyed to the developer. The city is maintaining the city-owned land. We are contracting with these companies to conduct the construction and build of the units. They get paid for their uh for for for their construction activities. >> Okay. And then the city at you at this point the city through the whole process the city maintains ownership and then once it's complete then the city sells to the uh homeowner. >> So the the construction >> through through a through a realtor >> and I don't want to I don't want to be labor but but if it's they're they're building it for $880,000 how what would be the sale price? because a person at 80% if the numbers are still the same that's about a $96,000. So, so the 880,000 gets you four buildings, right? Two two ho single family homes each with an accessory dwelling unit. >> Right. Right. But if you are at 80% and you make and your household makes $96,000 a year, you don't qualify for $880,000. So, so, uh, they they'll be sold separately. So, think about it as the, uh, I don't know that the construction contract that they're two identical, um, units, but let's say for, um, conceptually speaking here, it's $440,000 of investment in the construction >> on each parcel, >> for each, >> but the owner. >> Yeah. So, so then the they they will not be sold for that full $440,000. They'll be sold at at a cost less than that. um that sub you know the the difference is essentially the subsidy that the city leaves in the property just like you leave subsidy in uh in house Charlotte or you leave subsidy in rehab and you leave subsidy in um multif family communities and that subsidy is left in the property and it essentially buys you deed restrictions for a period of time. >> Okay. All right. I just if you if you if your household is $96,000 a year and you qualify for three times the amount of your income, I don't see where they would qualify for $880,000 the value of the construction of the homes, both properties. So, um >> they wouldn't be sold together. They they will be separated and be sold separately. >> But you said the homeowner owns the home and the ADU. >> Yes. Property. But $880,000 is a construction contract that builds two homes and two ADUs. So each half of that is approximately $440,000. >> Okay. So Okay. All right. Good. Okay. Thank you. All right. All right. Um, Mayor Prom, thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. And uh Miss Hefner, you know, we have had conversations in the the communities within District 1 for quite some time. So I'm glad to see >> Yep. that there's movement here and it is a demonstration project. I know that Belmont is is looking forward to participating. But as we had those conversations, there was also uh a parcel across the street in Villa Heights as well. Can you just update us on where that one is? Did we pivot away from that? >> Are are you referencing the adjacent parcel on Prim that was part of the community engagement discussions or or different parcels? because a part of the community engagement discussions were two parcels >> and they're right across the street from one another. It's just that on the other side of the street it's Villa Heights >> and so I know the community is going to be asking >> what happened to that parcel. So the um the the community consensus about that second parcel was that they wanted to see something that was not only residential but perhaps commercial or had some mixed use. So uh that parcel remains in the city's portfolio of properties that we're working to activate. uh and uh it's just not part of this demonstration project specifically because of that community feedback. >> Okay, great. I just wanted to make sure that we had that uh discussion out loud so the residents would understand where we were on that. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. >> Miss Amira. >> Yes. Uh thank you, Madame Mayor. So I have had this conversation with Miss Hefner earlier today because this is a new program that we are piloting. So the way I look at this, this is just the construction contract. Um it's going to come back to the council for housing piece. Um so after we talked I know we I asked the question how much of our construction cost will be recovered and you had mentioned it was 50 to 70% is that correct >> um so 1.7 yeah I think that's the percentage of the based on the numbers I gave you thank you for doing the math for me >> okay So you know when I add up the numbers the return on investment this is a very ex very high per unit cost. So first of all, if you factor in the land cost, which I have not even factored in, you look at for um per unit roughly 3 to 400,000. >> Uh that's considering ADU. >> Then you look at uh >> House Charlotte program that council member Mayfield had alluded to earlier. Even though it may not be city's funds, it is ultimately the funds that could be used by other families. So when you look at the per unit cost, it's really high. And I know that >> when we have looked at our housing trust fund uh proposals as they come in front of us, we've gotten really smarter. Uh thanks to Mr. Heath and your team where we have reduced our per unit costs anywhere between I have seen as low as 20K 30k to see this it. It's very difficult for me to make sense of of this. Um >> I can give you a little rundown of the per unit if that's helpful. >> What what I would like to see is how much is the developers fee, how much is the construction fee, right? Because ultimately when we look at our housing trust fund proposals, a lot of developers actually remove their developers fee. So are we seeing that in this project? Do we have a breakdown of how much is the construction materials and labor and how much is the developer fee? >> I can certainly provide that for you. I don't have it with me tonight. Yeah, I personally think it's important for us to take a look at comprehensive picture before we before I am able to get comfortable. Uh we need to know how much is going to developers fee, how much is going to construction, how much is going to materials and labor. Um and also we need to factor in land cost. What is assessed values to really arrive at per unit cost and how far are we from our usual housing trust fund proposal. I know this is ARPA money. I I get it. But at the end of the day, we need to be good stewards of our the money that we have. Um >> and just I want to make sure to piggyback on council member Mayfield's point. So when this comes back because we own the land they are just doing the construction developers are just doing the construction. So when it comes back um will did I understand this correctly will the seller I'm sorry will the buyer be able to tap into how Charlotte program as well? >> Yeah. So I'll I'll have to get details on how the how the per unit breakdown will go. So, one thing I will note for you is that often um when you are funding home ownership um which is can be you know we're averaging around 50,000 a unit for new production of home ownership um you are you are also funding down payment assistance on the back end for those units. So, if if you if you calculate the average subsidy amounts that that are going into different types of affordable units, um we're looking at it's you're trending about 50,000 for new home ownership production. Um you you're uh around 50,000 for new rental uh and then the down payment assistance. And so if we recover 50% um which I would say would be the low end, if we recover 50% of the costs, then your per unit subsidy that's left in the in the units is about is about trending on your average in terms of investment in rental units and home home ownership production. >> So yeah, I would like to see that comparison. So what is our per unit cost at the end of the day? I mean that's how we evaluate all the proposals. Why would we have an exception in this case? Uh and and I think we really got to look at more transparency around the developers fee just like we do with our housing trust fund proposals. Uh other thing Habitat for Humanity, you know, they do a great job and it's a nonprofit model. Uh did they not apply? Did they not submit RFP? I' I'd have to look at the list of who submitted for for these particular parcels >> because another thing we ought to consider as you bring back the comparison uh we if you can also factor in the land cost because that's not currently being factored in when I did my math. Uh so that would be helpful. But excuse me, >> another path we got to consider is have we considered partnering with organizations like Habitat for Humanity, right? They they are always in need of land. So this is a city-owned land and they their developers fee is much less or maybe none compared to the private developer. So have we looked at that model? I would be interested in seeing that. Yeah, I'll have to see if they submitted in response to the request for proposals. >> Perfect. And the last thing, um I serve on the housing and safety committee and I was just talking to the chairwoman and vice chair. Uh I know this is a pilot program. We are looking at innovative ways, creative ways to uh build more affordable housing uh with your help, Rebecca, obviously, and preserve more affordable housing. I wonder if we need to look at this through committee process to figure out the details, right? Rather than having to hash out all these details here, uh I think the committee would probably the right way to go about it where we can really take a deeper dive. Well, that's all I have. Thank you. >> Thank you, uh Mr. Mitchell. >> Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim. So, Rebecca, home run hitter he >> did I get that right? Home run hitter. I'm sorry. I feel like I might have tripped on the way to first base tonight, Mr. Mitchell. >> I just want to uplift this pilot project for a couple of reason. One, you know, we always ask our citizen to serve on our boards and commission and the Nest the Nest Commission has been one of our most strongly talented advocate board that we have working for us. And so to the members of the Nest Commission, thank you. Then we always get a question about anti-displacement strategy and this pilot program addresses the anti-displacement um particularly for district 1 and district 2 and I like the fact on 89 1809 Taylor Avenue you chose a developer who's currently working in that community for a long period of time. Chris Dennis and Eix Development have been renovating homes uh over 10 years. So, uh, thank thank you for selecting, I think, the right people, uh, that they're that going to do a good job for us and more importantly, uh, letting this pilot program come forward. So, thank you. >> Um, okay, Mr. Dicks, and then we'll have Miss Molina. >> Thank you. Uh, so, Miss Havner, this is not a good explanation of the transaction. I think it's clear, and I think the fact that it's up here for a vote tonight, uh, is is really unfair to us. I mean, I'm I'm a finance guy. I can't read this and and know what I need to know and therefore I'm not prepared to vote for it yet. Uh I mean a simple question, how much are you going to sell it for and therefore what is the actual cost us going to be of the subsidy, right? I mean and we don't want to go ahead and commission these guys to build these places and not know the the full scope of the transaction. Um I I would have questions too about the new owners. They buy it, they own it, and then what? You look at Habitat and the and the whole process of the, you know, the loan because they will borrow right up to that that and uh what if they default or I mean there just a bunch of things that I think we ought to be able to discuss. I think the idea of uh referring this maybe to committee and uh and I can help I mean I can work with you guys, but is there time sensitivity if we if we decide to refer this to committee? Is this going to overturn uh anything or do we have time? >> No, the the the only time sensitivity is the typical one of standard construction escalation concerns. Uh but there's no there's no time constraints on this on on moving this forward. >> So I'd like to move that we that we refer this to committee. >> Second. We have a motion and a second >> to refer to the committee. Yes. Um, I think Miss Mayfield, I know, but we have Miss Molina to >> also comment. >> I actually I I just I'm I'm glad Mr. D I'm in agreement, Mr. Dre. Um, I I'd just like to make a comment that, you know, quite often uh the members although district 1 definitely has uh East Charlotte in it, we get a lot of um comments that district 5 gets all of the affordable housing units placed there. And I think on this council within the last year there's been enough units that we've placed have been in district one. >> Absolutely. >> Um by by far per capita. But um I would love to have some additional conversations on this and and get some more information. So >> all right. You heard the motion. Um and I think I had a first and a second. Mr. >> Question for clarification. So versus doing a motion to defer, what we're motioning is for it to come back to committee. That's what >> which in essence is a deferral. >> That's right. >> Right. It would be a deferral, but because it's going to committee. So I think Mr. Briggs said go to go to committee. That's what I thought. So that's what the motion is. >> That's what I want to clarify. >> All right. So um any further comment? All in favor of deferral for the committee to review this potential pilot program, raise your hands. Everybody's there except Rebecca didn't raise her hand. >> I'm sorry. Like >> who else? Oh, who else did not raise their hand? >> This person is Mr. >> as well as M. Brown and Mr. Brown. >> So, who's the clerk needs to know? >> The clerk the nose. Please raise your hand if as the nose. >> No. >> Nose. >> Yes. >> No. >> One, two, three. >> Three. >> Three. >> Three. Okay. Motion passes. >> Mayor, >> I would just like to add if we go out right now on realtor.com. I'm looking at a four bedroomedroom 2 and a half bath 230 ft on a 0.51 acre lot 320,000. So I think it we have a opportunity where not just this but we it could benefit us if some of these conversations come back through housing neighborhood services public safety committee before coming to full counsel because some of these questions would have been asked and or answered prior to tonight. I love the fact that we are utilizing the recommendations from Nest. We also need to take into consideration the reality that we're dealing with right now in community. And if some of these requests start back as once was done a number of years ago coming through housing committee for discussion, we very well would be able to get share whatever questions and concerns we have on the front end before it comes to full counsel and then unfortunately have a discussion where we're now looking at referring it back to committee to get a number of questions answered. Thank you. But >> your Can I just do a followup? >> Yes, sir. >> But your example of the acreage 359,000. How big was the lot? >> Oh, sir. This is um a 0.51 acres. So, just under an acre lot, 2,30 ft. >> Even have Huh. >> On Taylor Avenue. >> No, no. I'm saying a home right now, the cost of a home right now >> in the city of Charlotte, which is a brick home, which we don't have that many of, but I was just giving an example of right now within the city, we have a 4bedroom, 2 1/2, 2,30 ft home that is on just short of a acre lot. >> I want >> for $320,000. We don't know the lot size. We don't know the size of this home. Even though we know it's an accessory dwelling, we don't know if it's a 11, 12, 13, 14, 1500 square foot home. We don't know the size of the lot. There's a lot of unknowns with this particular request, but I think the opportunity is for us to revisit what was once done, and that is committee being able to review and have questions on some of these financial proposals and requests before it comes to full counsel. So I mayor, you're just fine. Go ahead. So I I have no problem with the process. I just want to make sure >> that we comparing apples to apples because on Taylor Avenue, >> we don't have a $351,000 home in that area. So I just want to I that's when I heard the cost of that home. I just want to make sure we talking about district 2 and Taylor Avenue and that's that that example is it's not truly applicable. >> Well, actually this is off of David Avenue which is in 28214 close to Mount Holly Huntersville which is an area that is very expensive. So to have a brick home so I get it seems like a lot >> but I just think there it was an opportunity for us in committee to have some of these questions answered. >> All right. So, we're going to do um we've passed the motion that it be deferred to the committee. Um so, the next item on our agenda the next item on our agenda is to adopt a resolution to approve 2025 Charlotte Meckllinburgg multi-jurisdiction hazard mitigation plan as an A and a B. Do we have a motion? >> Motion to second. >> We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor, please raise their hand. Anyone opposing? So that resolved that. Um for item 20, adopt, we have a motion. May I have a motion to adopt the proposed Charlotte future 2040 community area plans volume one program guide volume two cap policy and revised policy. Move >> to approve. >> We have a motion and a um do I have a second? Second. >> You have a second. Okay. Um Mr. Driggs, >> I just want to say colleagues, we've had this for five and a half months. Uh it was always part of the uh original uh plan framework. We knew this was something we needed to do and it's kind of critical for progress in our total planning process that we make this step because these plans lay out on a specific basis for specific areas some of the details of what our goals are. Uh the plans do not modify the UDO as such. Uh in some cases they imply a modification of the policy map but uh we have had a lot of time to look at this and think about it. There has been a huge amount of community outreach and I'm just very hopeful that we can take this step tonight. It won't be the end. Uh, as always, we will be in an ongoing process of uh uh revision, but I think we need to to get this out and uh start to find out how it works. It's um it it is not halfbaked. This thing has been researched thoroughly. It's been developed by the staff. We've all had months uh to look at it and talk about it. And so I believe tonight is the night. I hope we can get this done tonight. >> All right, Mayor Pro Tim. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um, can I ask some of the staff to come up from the CAP team, please? And as you come up, I'll I'll go ahead and begin. I I agree with Mr. Driggs that there has been a lot of work done on this, and I want to personally thank you, the team, for doing that um and leaning in to um some of my communities within District One. Having said that, there are a couple of outstanding questions in a couple of the communities that I'd like for you to address. And the one which I think it was sent to all of council, but I know you know uh Dr. Bill Patton very well in Cherry. You all have met with her. She is a phenomenal community leader and um they still are struggling with the two areas uh that have that will be able to be upzoned and I wanted you to speak to the conversation that you've had um any modifications that you've had the engagement with community on that particular issue. >> Sure. Um good evening Kathy Cornet. I manage the long range planning division in Charlotte planning design and development. I'm here with my colleague Katherine Mahoney who is the project manager and manages the community planning program area. She is really the expert. Um so I'll ask her to clarify a couple of things that we've agreed to um with Cherry. So we did meet with Dr. Bill Patton and other members in the community um actually out in in the community to to look, you know, in context at the sites that they were looking at. We did um make some adjustments and I'll ask Katherine to help me. I think there was one that um perhaps was it uh N2 or neighborhood two on the map and we made an adjustment on the policy map to neighborhood activity center. Am I right there? >> So there were four areas of requested change. We were able to make uh changes to three of the four areas. The fourth area is inconsistent with the mapping approach and is really um uh an issue with the zoning translation not the policy map uh methodology and we conveyed that to them in writing and I think that was shared uh with leadership and uh both on their side and your side and um that was kind of staff's recommendation at this point we can we can meet three of the four requests from them uh and then it would be up to I think your decision as to whether or not to adopt the policy map with that additional fourth change. >> So specifically um the areas of uh seven and eight and I'm sure if I'm not sure if you have that on your map um but what was shared to me was the area along Baxter Street as well as the that's seven and then the area on Torrance Street which is eight. Those are the two areas of uh concern for them. And in addition to that, I also had um the leadership from Dalworth reach out as well. Again, another very very strong um land use leader and um they shared concerns as well, I think. And I know that Miss Johnson sent you all an email earlier asking about, you know, we've had a lot of engagement. You've listened, but how much of that the listening, how much of that has been incorporated into the actual plan? So what you just said is a great example of you know there's a community the Cherry community asked for four specific things and you were able to address three of those specific things but do you have any kind of metrics around the the incorporation of feedback because I think there's some concern that some communities feel like they're being listened to but it's not being incorporated into the plan. So can you speak to that? >> Sure. Well, there there were over a thousand comments and there are 74 changes to the plan and we do have a few um breakdowns as far as the the number of changes, the percent of changes that were incorporated, but I think the larger what one thing I do want to stress is that in many cases the comments were not asking for changes. um they may have been questions or just general expressions of the amount of growth that Charlotte's experiencing. Both some folks in support of it and some folks not. Um so I I do hesitate to we don't have all the breakdown of every comment we received. Sometimes there was duplicative comments as well. At some certain point it's um there's not really any new comments. It's just comments stated in a different way. But all of the comments were reviewed cataloged categorized and if they were not directly incorporated, they did influence the thinking that went into the recommendations within the plan. And and one other thing I would want to um make sure to highlight is that we're trying to treat the entire community consistently. So a situation that may be happening in one part of the community may have the same policy imple implication as a similar situation in another part of the community. We were very intentional about making sure when Katherine mentions the mapping approach that that's part of that mapping methodology is to make sure that we're treating situations continuous consistently across um the community. >> No, thank you for that. Um I think a part of the consternation around this is um there's some some historical neighborhoods that are not officially uh designated as historical right through going through that process but they're historical neighborhoods all throughout the Queen City and some of them want to ensure that their former um area plans are preserved in some level at some level with this new iteration of community area plans, right? And Cherry is just one example, but there are others as well. So, I just want to make sure as we're going through this process, and I do agree I I am an advocate for having these plans approved together. I don't think we need to um we don't need to have part of the city with updated plans and other parts of the city not right because I think that might potentially introduce some other opportunities legal and otherwise. So, we do want to move forward with a full 14 area plans, but I just wanted to underscore that for some of our historical neighborhoods that we're concerned about aesthetic and charm and preservation that we're mindful of that as we go through the plans. And this work is dense, is very dense. And I, like I said, I want to say thank you again. I had several in district one, but specifically this one for South Inner is the one um that I'm I'm getting the most uh push back on in community. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. >> All right. Thank you. All right. So, um Miss Renee, I mean Renee Johnson. >> Rene, right? Sorry. It's getting late. >> It is getting late, so I won't be long. I' I'd like to make a substitute motion that we defer the um approval of the plans. Um >> second, >> thank you. And the reason I'd like to defer them because of Mayor Proin mentioned her consternation there, we can put some action behind that, you know, um Cherry is one area, Dward, like you said, is another. Um I know there's a a neighborhood in district three. There's some concerns in the Back Creek area and and even if you look at the the document with the proposed changes, there are like one the environmental justice and the the the proposal or the response was we're we're adding this language or there's further explanation, right? So there's not changes and then when you say we've heard from a thousand people and made 74 changes, you know, that's 7%. So again, we're we're we're making these huge changes to these neighborhoods, to the character of these neighborhoods, and the the response is or the changes is in the single numbers. And so we know what happened when we've approved the 2040 plan and the UDO and and what continues to happen when we have this low level of input. um when we had a talk and thank you for your availability last week. We were able to have a conversation with one of the D4 coalition members. Um but even some of the questions the response was well will that will be addressed in the next phase and so you know that's what's happened. So um we'd like to have some more answers. I think we need more time. Um, I was asked how much time we would need and I mean some folks would say 30 days but I know the atlarge representatives you all are um you're campaigning is realistically and I'm I'm flexible with that because we I think we that our city deserves all of our attention on this and I said this you know last month on the dis like I can't speak to any of the the plans in district five or district six and just because we're district representatives we know that our citizens don't care about that and I think our our these plans and it deserves our attention. What I think would be a great idea is uh is a webinar now with the the council members available to hear from the citizens you know with the feedback, you know, the plans. Here are the plans. Um and I think if we had these these webinars like we did before for the different groups, different time frames and the council members hear from the residents because we're the ones that are held accountable. So, um, I'd like to defer. Um, I'm open to the the time frame if it's 30 days or 60 days, but I want to hear from the residents. And we don't want residents like Dr. Biddle Patton who's been engaged since the beginning. She, this is not someone who's just coming on board saying, "Hey, you know, uh, Johnny, come lately, you know, or whatever you might say, but she's been involved and she's been engaged and she's been very engaged. And for her not to feel heard and listened to That's problematic. >> I I will mention um if I can that there there are next steps. This would not be the end of our planning and I think council member Driggs mentioned the specific plans which is the next level and that's what I mentioned um to you in our conversation as well. So that's something that we're developing right now is that next level of planning that focuses on very small areas and unique issues. Um that would be something like station area plans or environmental impact plans. Um activity center plans again focusing on very targeted issues in a in a much shorter time frame but again involving robust public input as we did in this process as well. We also have a community area planning road show that we're pretty much ready to roll out to the community and also to our interdep departmental partners that um would would again continue this dialogue with neighborhoods. The the primary audience is neighborhoods to be able to get out into the community and have deeper conversations about the area plans and what they mean to you. um and also incorporating the work and the recommendations from the area plan into the resoning staff analysis. So that's also something that we're prepared to do. So we do I don't want you to think that this would be the end of the conversation or there wouldn't be other opportunities um to look at issues as our community continues to grow and change. >> All right, Miss Mayfield. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Thank you, Council Member Johnson, for the amendment. Do while we're having this discussion, since we did have an amendment mot amended motion and a second are the conversations that we having now part for the substitute motion. >> This is part of that cuz we didn't say anything >> even though we did have a substitute motion and a second on it. >> Yeah. what what's on the floor is a substitute motion that received that motion and the second that motion is to be dealt with by this council first. It is a motion to defer so that should be deferred to a time and date and I don't think the motion includes the specific date of the deferral too. You were talking about whether or not it's 30 days or 60 days but there needs to be some direction for the council on when the matter will come back if that motion successful. So >> I I would say 60 days. >> And >> All right. So I just wanted you know is that a mo >> that was part of the motion. Part of the motion Miss Mayfield seconded. So would you agree to that? >> I agree to the 60 days. >> So >> So now we're having discussion. >> Okay. So in this discussion, manager Jones, I have shared more than once the concern I have of us. Fast forwarding 14 plans staff had an opportunity and I appreciate the work that you're doing but what you just shared as far as the clarifying of smaller plans that should be doing that's what we should be doing now. We have approved previous plans and we are now looking at the impact of the language of unintended consequences and we are constantly having to look at a proposal that comes before us and in that proposal this is inconsistent but yet Miss Sylvio Biddle Patton was extremely detailed in what she sent out. She is not the only community member that has reached out. So for me, even though I appreciate staff saying you have gone out, we must acknowledge that we have a history and some of us have a office filled with books where community were engaged and those books are sitting up on a bookshelf because less than 8% of what community said they were looking for needed was actually implemented. So, when you have a very specific request in here stating the impact of spot zoning, talking about the impact of a area based on our language that changed it from a community activity center instead of the N1, which was in our policy map, the impact of a R8 to N1, the impact of no block split camp When you look at a number of the communities that have directly been impacted, which were once communities that had a say but still weren't listened to. And then once we say, well, we're going to make investments and we're going to identify these opportunity communities. The community isn't who benefited from that opportunity. New people moving in benefited from the so-called opportunities that we created, but those who live there were heavily and overwhelmingly displaced and moved. the idea that we can look at Colorado and other places and not understand and see some of the mistakes they made >> and also welcome the fact that they slowed down and said we're going to do the area plans independently cuz there's no rush on it if we want it done correctly. We're constantly having to make changes based on that 2040 and that UDO. So, the idea of saying, "Well, let's get through this part and then we'll go back and fix it." I don't trust the process. And I'm going to be perfectly honest. And I don't trust the process based off of the 12 plus years that I have either been or been around this particular process and things that we approved many years ago and how it was reinterpreted within a 3 to five year or a two to three council change period. we have the opportunity to do something very different. We moved up from 14 to 13. Why? Because they're losing people. So, we have to look at the reality that we're getting very close to a precipice. And if we don't slow down and really pay attention to what our community needs, we are looking at in less than a decade seeing that same mass exodus from our city that is helping to grow our city because of the fact that we are becoming unaffordable. Part of our language is creating that space for that unaffordability. And if the workers cannot afford to live here, then those workers are going to find some place where they can afford to live. That is why I support my colleagues recommendation on this deferral. But I it is tiring to have to keep repeating. We need to break this up because we're not doing justice and a true service to our community. I'm not as concerned about the 150 yard that's coming to the city. I'm going just go ahead and tell you straight that to the camera. I'm concerned about all those that have been living here paying taxes and it's on their backs and our backs that this city has grown to the level that is done. But we are losing our residents and is our language that is helping us to push out our residents. So, if we can't see the opportunity right now with everything that's happening on the national level and everything that we know that's coming in 2026 based on what was approved in this bill and the financial challenges that's going to create, we are doing a disservice. Thank you. >> All right. I believe um I've gone through the complete list so I can go back. >> You have Melina. >> Okay. and >> you had nothing. >> I know I saw you but I didn't. Okay, >> Melena. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. So, um >> No, not on the substitute motion. >> On the substitute, >> we have a substitute motion on the floor now. So, is she done? >> Okay. Are you're done? >> All right. Now, I haven't said anything. >> No, Miss Molina. >> Okay. And then I will go next. That's fine. >> No, it's there's other people ahead of you. Okay, >> proceed. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. >> Um, so, um, I think about actually just about a week or two, we were at Grove Park. Um, and we had a meeting in Grove Park about, um, a buy development >> and it's on six acres in the middle of that neighborhood. >> Bless you. Um, and with the buy right development, um, I think it's 38 units that the owner wants to put there. Um, and what what we had to deliver to the neighbors at that moment was a mix of what's written in the 2040 plan um, and the word character not being able to protect them because of there being existing language that would allow that development by right, which would completely change the character of the neighborhood because there's already an adopted um policy on our books. Um and it it was it was a really tough discussion because I wanted to say so much more. I wanted to at the beginning of that conversation be able to make the argument that based on the character of that neighborhood in East Charlotte that we could make um kind of a decision based on land use for an example or some type of consistency that would have been able to protect those neighbors from having density plopped dead in the middle of their neighborhood. And right now that can happen even without this. Um, and so I wanna I want to make sure and and that's not a reason to not continue this conversation with some level of specificity because the specific plans intend to actually address neighborhoods and smaller areas and smaller geographic regions based on what we learn I believe over time. But I think it's important to give that realistic perspective to our neighbors because some some of the humans that we represent see these types of changes already happening in their neighborhoods. And if they see something like this and rightfully so because it's not their jobs for them to understand land use language or development or petitions or things of that nature. Um, it's our job to do our best, you know, to disseminate that knowledge in an understandable way and I and I own that. But I don't want to make a resident believe that if we delay this that that stops, right? Because that's already underway because of the 2040 plan, right? because of, you know, the um the and and it's one of the reasons why what I've learned over this process is that when someone comes to us with a petition, they're asking us for an exception because we already have a plan and that plan says that they can already do things and it was already worked on for 5 years. So when something comes to us and it's established as inconsistent with our existing plan and and let me make sure that I say and before that even comes to this council we have a zoning committee that takes a look at it and most of the time if it's staff approved it's zoning committee approved. People don't even know that they can contact the zoning committee and say we don't like this and you should stop it there. There's kind of a twofold, which is why before I leave this seat, I really hope that we take an initiative to offer some type of maybe ongoing ongoing training in perpetuity so that our residents know where they can engage with this process, right? That it's not just council. They have a zoning committee that's been appointed by the council that can say yay or nay, agree or disagree with the staff as well as petition the council in a number of different iterations. We know that, but our residents don't. Right. Um, if we go 60 days, you're going to be with a different council. >> You're going to be really close to a different council from >> Well, you will be holidays >> it because of the holidays and things like that. >> You will be and that's not a problem. But I think, you know, and and notwithstanding that there's a an election season coming and people will be distracted and this needs emphasis. Um, I I just would like to make sure that we're specific about what we're saying and and where we would like to take this as far as conversation purposes are concerned. Right. This council right now is somewhat adept. You're going to get at least three brand new members who have to learn where the bathroom is uh before they're prepared to make any type of decision. Um so so that's something additional to um also consider. Um but I like I said I I just so from your perspective this portion what will it do or not do? In other words you were at the Grove Park meeting would this have changed anything about Grove Park. Is there anything that we could implement that would have given Grove Park in East Charlotte more of an ability to make their case with regards to character of their particular neighborhood? >> No, because it was by right and the entitlements are on the property. This is really about shaping um future development that's coming maybe through the resoning process. This would give you more guidance for the resoning decisions. So this is more reasonzoning specific >> resoning decisions and capital investments and um gradual change over time. That example was more of an immediate uh um land development scenario. >> Okay. So having been on the TPD, the transportation planning and development committee, I've heard a lot of these updates, but obviously our colleagues around the deis are like we need more information. and we don't feel comfortable. We're getting feedback from our residents that says X. I like I said, I I don't think it's a problem with continuing the conversation, but I think the milestone for consideration, uh, Councilwoman, is where you're going to have that conversation and when, right? And and you know, and that's not to urge you to change it, but to be mindful of of when that would happen. So, um, saying out loud, making sure that I'm clear, you know, there are a lot of things that are happening as a result of by right now developments across our areas that are promoting density in the name of increasing affordability and a number of different other things. This in particular is not something that would stave that off particularly because that is already adopted. But I'm sure that there are things within this that maybe, you know, we could take an additional look at to make sure that there's clear understanding on this council before we adopt it citywide. So, I mean, I'm I'm open to it. With that being said, um, but I think, Miss Johnson, it's a question of when or, you know, maybe that's an additional consideration for this body to say when you would like to have that discussion if if it is in fact approved. Do you want me to answer that now or wait you want me to come back? >> I think would you >> Mr. D? >> No, not not yet Judge. >> Okay. >> Miss Johnson is asking if she >> So 60 days is a would be 11:22 and there is a meeting on 11:10 and also 11:24. So if it were 62 days or up to 60 days. And I just want to say when you talk about Grove Park, that was one of the areas that I thought of when I opposed the 2040 plan. I have a friend I have a friend in Grove Park, her her yard is, you know, six acres and there's no HOA. So these >> I live in a neighborhood like that. >> Yeah. And College Downs and there's many or uh neighborhoods like that. So I understood I understood that. I I would say I was right then and I think I'm right now. So um yeah. So I I understand what you're saying, but 60 days would would still give us time. >> Thanks. >> Okay, we have Mr. Driggs and then Miss Ashmir. >> So, uh, if it is the will of the council, then Okay. Um, I'm just curious. I'm hearing things now that it feels to me I should have been hearing as the committee chair and trying to move this thing forward three months ago. I don't understand why some of these issues are now coming to the four. uh what's been going on for the last five and a half months. I do know that in committee we have had repeated engagement with the staff. We've seen some breakdowns of exactly what changes were made and it was explained to us and uh and I'm not certain that uh we're going to achieve anything in seven and a half months that we haven't achieved in five and a half months. I think we're going to end up right back where we are. Not everybody is going to be happy. There will still remain work to be done. And meanwhile, the the big picture progress towards the implementation of our planning and goals through the pursuing the city that we want to be will be held up for another two months. We're not going to get to a place where everybody is happy. It's just not going to happen. And the question is at some point, do the opinions of a few people that are still dissatisfied justify stopping the forward progress on a plan that's meant to benefit the entire city? I think we do have an issue with historical areas. There is disruption that comes with progress and growth and the passage of time. You can't freeze things in time and just keep them exactly as they were. And every time we have resonings, you hear from people who don't like the fact that their neighborhood is going to change. Meanwhile, we are trying to reconcile that sort of desire to keep things the same way they are with the pressure of wanting to keep housing affordable and accommodate the influx of people. If we don't accommodate the influx of people, what will happen is that housing costs will go up until they stop coming here. But, but they won't stop coming here until that happens. And that's not going to be easy for the lower income people. They're going to get crowded out. So, uh, I think I I don't see anything being accomplished by waiting for two more months. And, uh, and I do see us then losing time in terms of moving forward. And Miss Johnson is right. This, this council could act in two months time. Uh, I mean, the new council won't be seated till December. So, I I I recognize that. I just really feel that we're not going to be any further than we are now, and we're still going to be talking about these issues. and then we will have no more excuses. It's like we postponed, we postponed. We're still not there, but in in November, it's going to be time to do something. And I don't think it'll be any easier then than it would be if we just did it right now and then carried on with the work that's been explained to us and do the things we need to do to uh to include the people, the pockets of resistance that still exist. Uh I don't believe that we have a uh a largecale popular outcry about this. I think we have certain people who live in certain neighborhoods or have certain priorities that for some reason are more more vocal now than they have been for the last few months. But, uh, I I really believe it's in the interest of the city for us to take this step and then just carry on with the work that we're going to need to be we're going to need to be doing this work for for uh a long time. We haven't had the alignment process yet. We haven't had the special plans that are going to be done, the detailed plans. Um so I just wish we could take this step now and recognize that uh nobody is being ignored because we did the big portion of the work can proceed while the issues are still being worked on. Thank you >> thank you. Well, a lot has been said by my colleagues, so I'm not going to repeat. I I just want to thank uh Allison and Monica and the entire team for being accessible and um answering questions and concerns. What I hear from my colleagues is really the translation of the comments into actual change in the document in community area plans. I've heard similar to my colleagues, I've heard from various neighborhood leaders such as Stephanie Gardner and Dr. Bidd patent from Cherry community as well as we have heard from neighborhoods near the airport about their concerns uh around having manufacturing facility too close to their neighborhoods and uh the concern is that some of this feedback it's not from one person or two but entire neighborhood it's not getting translated and in making a change to the community area plans and I think that's where the struggle is. So I hope that in next uh 60 days we are able to actually make changes to the community area plans based on the feedback that we have received from neighborhoods. Right? We are not talking about one or two neighborhood leaders. We are hearing from neighborhoods that have stayed active and engaged throughout this process. Uh whether that's Dworth, whether that's Cherry or even neighborhoods on the west side uh near the airport. So this neighborhoods have I remember meeting them when we first started the whole 2040 plan exercise and then now we are on to this then we went on UDO and then community area plans. So I think at some point council has to say that we got to try we got to make some changes that are necessary to um respect the existing character of neighborhood while also addressing and providing more housing so that we can um we can put downward pressure on house prices. Oh, that >> Oh, I was just going to respond, I'm sorry, to the um Steelberry Acres near the air, which is the airport um neighborhood near the airport. So, we did actually meet with that neighborhood in the neighborhood. Um and there are 33 changes, two parcels that that they asked for that are being made as part of this process. >> It was a three to fourpart um collaboration. and we included the airport and we were able to come to that consensus of red designating manufacturing and logistic parcels >> owned by the airport to innovation mixed use um to make for a better transition for the neighborhood. >> Well, that's great to hear uh that we did listen to the community because they were here at during our public forum and we heard loud and clear from them. Yes. >> Um, so I appreciate you being proactive in addressing their neighborhoods concerns around the quality of life. That's all I have. Thank you. >> All right, >> Mr. Mitchell. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, let me start off. I'm looking here in the book, August 4th, 2025. Um the staff made a presentation of final proposed changes to the transportation planning development council committee. And so you all had this in your committee, but was there a vote uh in your committee about the changes the staff presented? >> So this has actually been brought forward by the planning commission. It wasn't up to the committee to make that decision. Okay. >> So we were briefed as members of council and on behalf of the whole council. Uh at the end of the day, the determination to bring it up for a vote was made by the planning commission. >> Okay. Okay, that explains and and so I guess this is tough uh for me. One, we got people who respecting the community that that sent us emails about uh making recommendations and they wouldn't include it. Uh secondly I think we got to measure we have to set expectation we defer this right and and what is the threshold to say we have heard from everyone I'm saying in the book we received >> 2520 comments to the planning process >> and so what constitute a comment moving forward to the plan and I and and and I'm just struggling >> exactly >> how how we get arms around that do we say 10% going to get incorporated or we look at the merits of the comment >> and so I I I think around this dire >> we we we want to move forward we want to move forward hearing all the voices we want to move forward with something incorporated from those key voices and so I I don't know how to look at we defer for 60 days I think we got to put some more criteria because I think we'll be back here another 60 days with the same issues we're facing tonight. So, um I I I could I support Council Member Johnson's uh deferral, but I just want us to be very careful, Mayor. And I don't know where the additional criteria would come from, but we need to send that back to TAP and be clear. >> We have I have Mr. Graham and then Miss Watlington. >> And I'll be quick. I I council member Metro read my mind that the the the the recommendation has to have merit. Right. Right. For inclusion. And so I'm going to support the deferral for 60 days. But and then thank staff. I remember when you guys first met with me in my office. I said talk to me like I'm a third grader. I think I'm second year college now. Right. In terms of my understanding of what we're trying to do, right? And I think the staff has done a lot of good work. Yeah. >> Um, >> absolutely. >> And you know, our city is not changing. Our city has changed. And going back to the 2040 UDO, all those are responding to that change. And what we're trying to do here tonight is yet another step forward. >> Not perfect. >> A lot of neighborhoods and community folks will agree, but they disagree. Some members on this council agree that they disagree, but I think these are positive steps forward and hopefully within the next 60 days we can come to a point where there's a meaning of the minds um understanding as council member Mitchell said that these requests have to have merit >> for inclusion and then the council can continue to move forward um in terms of addressing some of the really uh growing pains and changes is that we need to respond to based on what's happening with respect to respecting our history, legacy, and tradition for those who are Charlines have been here for years and at the same time acknowledging um that this city is busting at the at the seams and the measures that we're putting in place while not popular by many are necessary for us to be able to um have balanced growth, balanced development, uh, with a eye towards the future. So hopefully within 60 days we can figure it out. Um, but at that point I think council really needs to make a decision. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. So I want >> Miss Watlington. >> Miss Watlington. >> Thank you. Um, similar to what council member Graham and um, Mitchell have said, I do think that we got to make it very actionable. I don't think that just deferring it without taking any specific change in action is going to be helpful. Um I part of me feels like what we're having here is a conversation about this item but is really about how we're choosing to grow, right? And while I recognize that we've had the policy conversation some years ago, the fact of the matter is that it's a living document. And so if it means that we need to have a real conversation about what based on what we've learned, are there some things that we fundamentally want to do different, then I think that's the conversation we need to be having. Um, and I think this is a symptom of that. Um, as it relates to this specific decision, would it be helpful for, and I'm happy to help, but would it be helpful for the district reps to just go through their particular plans and just point out, hey, these are the hot spot areas because I do get the sense that there's there are themes. Um, but at the same time, I don't think there's anything that stops us from saying we this is why this is right for this community. And I I understand we want to try to be consistent. We want to have a a citywide policy in some cases, but at the end of the day, the process is supposed to deliver the product that we want and it feels like we've still got some um massaging to do there. So, I just challenge us to remember the the main thing and that's that we're we want to come out with a plan that does reflect what the majority of our community wants. Um, and if that means that it's a little bit of a different direction than what we thought, that's okay. But we got to have that conversation and just be real about that. Um, and so I hope that within the next 60 days, we can we can do that and make some tough calls. Um, and be willing to consider that what we believed was the best thing may not be what our community is telling us they want. >> Thank you. Yes. Are you making a comment? >> Okay. >> I I think we made the last >> I just wanted to uh make a follow-up comment. Um I agree with what several of my colleagues have said and I do believe that you know we have to embrace balanced growth and we have to move forward. I recognize the work that you all have done. You guys have done a a significant amount of work. But I just want to be very specific around some action steps that we can take over the next 60 days. So one point of of information and learning just in this conversation, you all had have quantified um how you've listened to two neighborhoods and incorporated change into the plan. I think it would be helpful if you could go through that in some way whether it's a a key sheet or some just some highlevel metrics around how you have been engaging with community and baking it into the plan. Um I know that the the attack committee is very much scrubbed in. I sit through those meetings as well. So I'm aware of it, but everyone might not be baselined on the various changes that you all have done and how you have worked throughout all 14 areas. So I think that would be helpful if you can if you could go through that over the next 30 to 60 days and socialize that with with community members as well. Um the other piece is I think you know we know that change has occurred in in the city and we're going to have to manage that as best as we can but I think some demonstration of again you've already done the heavy lifting but some demonstration of how you know you've we've been thoughtful around certain neighborhoods and certain areas of Charlotte um to do the both end right to preserve the character and charm but also create opportunities for growth because we do know that housing is one of our key critical factors. So, I I'm not I'm I'm not saying you all haven't done the work. I'm saying maybe if you can show some of your work, demonstrate some of your work more explicitly to community members, council members, etc. I think that would be helpful. um whether it's over the next 30 days or 60 days, but I think we need some specific action points uh that we can say when we do come back that you all have done it and we've had conversations and debate around it. Thank you, Madame Mayor. >> Okay. I think this has been an a really difficult um conversation because I think that we have been doing all of this work. We know that a lot of people that are happy are satisfied and then there are others that aren't. And so I'm wondering if it's a place where the staff will be able to actually say there is going to be this kind of um effort in the next 60 days and who who's including with it. I think it's really important to have something that comes out. But again, this is about this is about very difficult things. you know, I think about whether or not we ought to be looking on, you know, who's moving here, who's who's getting the jobs here, because those are things just as important as some of the things that we talk about on housing. And so, we have plans for that. So, but do we have a plan that actually identifies what growth means to us? And so I think that it can't be status quo if we're going to continue to grow, but at the same time, we ought to be able to give people a really good understanding of what's possible. So with that, we have a motion on the table for 60-day deferral for the um decisions on Charlotte's future growth coming back through the staff. It hasn't identified who's going to be that staff. Nobody's had anything except a time frame. We're going to need more than a time frame. It's going to need some process that's going to move this thing forward or you know just let's just tell us. If we don't want to do that then we understand that's different. But I think in this case we I hate Allison you probably know more about this work than a lot of us up here. I think I've seen what you've been able to do in terms of trans of the how you can build up community and so I hope that there Mr. Jones, if it's possible that we have some guidance with both the real estate folks that um are helping us do this, the staff that's doing all of this work and have some kind of plan. And so I think Ed, I I don't know, but we need someone to lead this effort. Can't just be >> 60 days and then oh that's tomorrow, you know, that's my fear. So we need to have some leadership for this. And so if anybody's really interested in saying this is where we ought to go, I think it would be great to have that conversation with your colleagues to be able to say this is where we will have a document that will tell take us where we're trying to go with the staff doing the work with us. So um >> vote >> we do need to vote can and so everybody has spoken once and so we need to go ahead and vote on the motion >> except for me and I ain't got a thing to say. >> Oh that's right. You're right. Thank you so much. I really Do you want to >> No, ma'am. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Share some candy. >> We have some candy corn. >> All right. So, we have a motion on the table um on the floor. All in favor for a 60-day delay. >> Okay, that motion passes. Thank you everyone. >> Opposed. One and opposed. We have one in opposition. Um you know, we still have a close session tonight. >> Oh no. >> Oh yes. Oh yes, we do. We have a closed session or the closed session. All right. So the next item on our agenda 21 >> is item 21. >> Leave y'all folks >> to cons Oh, these these are appointments. >> We have appointments to make as well. >> So and then we have >> And would you be willing to give up your council topic so that we can go into the close session? >> Yes, I will. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you. As so I think that's so let's see right now we have the firefighters relief fund board of trustees. Um madame clerk. >> Uh yes ma'am mayor and councel Lee Thompson has been appointed to that position. >> Okay. Thank you. Everybody heard that. So we're good on what did we say? Lee Thompson. >> Lee Thompson. Interesting. >> All right. So, that concludes our business items and we're going to skip um public council discussions so that we can go back in and have our close session. >> Oh, you didn't really skip them. They talked a lot. >> Thank you for Yes, that's very very much so. All right. So, do we need a motion to go into close session? You need a motion to go into close session pursuant to North Carolina General Statute 143-31811 A4 to discuss matters relating to the location or expansion of industries or other businesses in the area served by the public body including agreement on a tenative list of economic development incentives that may be offered by the public body in negotiations. That says the motion. >> So moved. I have a motion and do I have a second? >> Second. >> Second. Um, all in favor of the motion, please raise your hand. >> Anyone oppose? Thank you very much. Let's go back into the back room and [Music]