Based on the context provided for the City of Hermantown and the dialogue within the transcript, here is the formatted transcript with speaker identifications. **Note on Identifications:** * **Jim** is the Chair of the Utility Commission. * **Grant** is City Councilor Grant Hauschild. * **Kirk Peterson** and **Chance Curtis** are the vendors presenting the AMI system. * **Bob Miller** is the utility staff member responsible for meter reading. *** [0:03] **Jim (Commission Chair):** City of Hermantown Utility Commission meeting for July or for Thursday, August 19th at 5:31 PM. We'll do a roll call. Jim, here. Bill, here. Howard, here. Rob, here. We'll be a Zoom. Councilor Grant, here. And Doug Kerfeld as visitors. We got Kevin Orme, Lindsay Townsend, and Paul Senst. And then we can go through Bob Miller. Right. Welcome, guys. Thank you. Thank you. All right, first order of business is to [0:49] approve minutes from the July 15, 2021 regular meeting. Have any comment or discussion on those minutes? [1:07] **Bill:** Motion to approve. **Howard:** I'll second. **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? All right, motion carries to approve minutes from July 15, 2021. All right, next item is public discussion. Yeah, not seeing any public. I think you guys are all on the agenda for later, so we will move on to communication. Duluth water rate information. [1:50] I have nothing on that. Kevin, any history or anything that you want to know? **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** No, not really. I think it's pretty self-explanatory. Um, Lindsay pulled the—nice job pulling what you guys asked for last time—and so that's kind of what we talked about. Um, we get raised 4.7 and we four percent, so we're losing a little bit of ground every year, but we're not too concerned. And you can see the life of that agreement and when we'll have to renegotiate with Duluth. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Okay. All right. Howard or Bill, you have any other discussion or not? **Bill:** Nothing. **Jim (Commission Chair):** No. All right. WLSSD discharge monitoring. [2:37] Pretty straightforward there. You know, we haven't had any spikes or anything, Paul? Like was that last year, year and a half ago? Everything's going going well. We don't have an ongoing contract with anybody for monitoring? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** For monitoring, or it's just—it's okay. **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right. There's no further discussion on that. Uh, the WLSSD 2022 budget and public hearing announcement. Kevin, who will be going to any of these from Hermantown? **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** You know, that's a good question. Um, Paul, do you know? [3:23] **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** I don't know either. **John Mulder (City Administrator):** Good answer. **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** Yeah. Yeah. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Okay. I was just thinking something. Hey, if you guys watch the world, you never know, a guy might show up there just because I'm bored. [Laughter] Or you need a nap. Yeah. All right. And then last one on the list here was WLSSD capacity allocation permit. Didn't look like anything concerning on that guess from what I saw. Has anything changed on it, Paul, that you're aware of—the permit or process? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Not that I know of. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Okay. [4:14] All right. There's no further discussion on communications. Move on to old business, which we see none. New business: uh, 2022 utility budget. **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** Yeah. So every year I get to uh present this to you guys and Grant gets a sneak peek at it and then I'll present to council if you guys are okay with it. We give you, as you can see, quite a few pages and several budgets: Cable TV, Water, Sewer, Stormwater, and Street Lighting. So there's five different funds in here. The main factor that changes the budget year to year, other than small incremental things for capital equipment—[5:00] and before I talk a little bit about what's in here briefly, Paul will talk about what's not in here. And just to remind you guys at the end of your packet, I gave you our Capital Improvement Plan. There's some sheets there. And so Hermantown is in some—as far as the water is concerned and sewer and even stormwater—we're fortunate in that we can use sales tax for those things. But we can't use sales tax for say, General Fund, whereas other cities like Duluth use their sales tax for General Fund. We have specific uses. So not in any of your budgets here are improvements that we can pay for out of sales tax. I just wanted to highlight that. So for example, um, in the Public Works section, you can see repairs and recoat of Highway 53 [5:46] water tower. That's 500,000 of water improvements. That's not in the water budget, but we get to do it because we have sales tax. Same thing for what these gentlemen are talking about tonight—the radio conversion to AMI. That again does not hit the water budget, but it's a great improvement that we can make using sales tax. So our water fund and both water, sewer, and stormwater are greatly helped by this sales tax. I just wanted to point that out. As far as the water fund, and specifically the capital equipment is the main thing that affects it materially. And so you can see 2022 we're budgeting 1.8 million in expenses; 2021 was 2.0. So there's quite a big difference. That's again because there's a lot less equipment [6:32] that Paul's budgeted in 2022. That's the main difference between the two years. Um, sewer-wise it didn't change nearly as much because the equipment didn't change nearly as much, but there are some increases um for E1 pumps, which we have to use. Paul can expand this too, but we have to keep a small inventory of those, so we added some money for there. There's some other increases for severance that we anticipate. Uh, I did also put in a little bit of money in case we want to update our rate study. And we've talked to you guys about the four percent and the two and a half percent, and we did that right after I got here in '16 or '17. And so it's good about every five [7:19] years to update that. So I put in money to utilize the same Ehlers people that did it before to just refresh that and let's see how the water and sewer and stormwater—now we have stormwater funds—are doing, how they're tracking. Do they still think the four percent and two and a half percent is right, or can we decrease it? You know, so I have that in the budget for next year. Um, so that's also in this water and sewer budget. And then stormwater: the income is consistent every year. The expenses again are dependent on capital equipment. Next year we have Lindahl Road bridge, which didn't get done this year, so we rolled that money to doing that next year. And we also have a portion of Richard Lindgren we want to improve. And so there will be a stormwater portion of [8:04] that, so we can pay for the stormwater of Richard Lindgren with stormwater funds. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Refresh my memory on that Richard Lindgren. What was that? Paul, can you speak to Richard Lindgren? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** [8:31] [Explains the Richard Lindgren project and the associated stormwater and road improvements for the area.] [9:12] [9:24] **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** Thank you. So I'd love to take all night and look at every one of these lines, but Paul told me I couldn't. So but I'm more than happy to answer any questions. [Laughter] I'm more than happy to answer any questions on any of these funds or numbers or anything. Um, it's a lot, but I try to just condense it down for you guys. [10:23] **Jim (Commission Chair):** [10:48] Cost-wise, about the same as the one on Arrowhead? Bigger structure? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** [11:27] [Response regarding the tower structure and costs.] **Jim (Commission Chair):** Does that tower have any lettering on it? I can't recall. It does? Okay. Okay. I was gonna see you again—that was a chore, wasn't it, if I remember right? The lettering, I guess. [11:55] I just know it's an added expense to do lettering on a tower. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Right. Right. **Jim (Commission Chair):** [12:14] Because I have one question under the Water Enterprise Fund. I believe it's "Contracted Services" at thirty thousand dollars. What is that? Who are we contracting out to on that? We didn't have any in 2021, it looked like, or I'm sorry, we only had nothing in 2020. **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** [12:39] So there's a Water Admin and General and there's Water Distribution. You must be looking at Water Distribution. Okay. So that's Paul's side of the budget. Paul, um, do you remember what that was? **Jim (Commission Chair):** Yeah, I can't hear anything that Paul's saying. **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** Yeah, we'd have to go to the microphone right here, Paul, if we want—he's coming up. That seat doesn't fit you very well anyway. Just make sure you turn on the microphone. [13:15] Green light? You got red lights over here. Oh, is that any better? **Jim (Commission Chair):** Yes. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** All right. Um, be honest Jim, I don't know off the top of my head. I know um in 2021 we're contracting with Bugalas to replace a valve over on Haynes and Arrowhead for us, and I believe we felt that there was going to be one we're going to have to do again next year. It would contract some of these ones—it's easier to contract it out than to try to do it ourselves. And we try to piggyback it with work that's going on—Morris Thomas Road, Arrowhead and Haynes with Costco—um, that type of thing. So we're finding some of these valves are getting, you know, beyond their 75-year life, and we're finding more and more of them [14:01] as we're shutting down, turning off and on for these developments that are being done. **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** And yeah, I looked in the notes, that is what it is. It's a water valve repair. **Jim (Commission Chair):** That's kind of what I thought it was. It's something that made sense, and we're contracting these instead of doing them on our own. Okay, good enough. [14:29] All right, is there any other discussion on the utility budget? **Grant Hauschild (City Councilor):** Okay, I don't know if I have anything else—do we need a motion on this? I had one question if I can. Um, under the Wastewater Fund, uh, I noticed what looked like two uh capital expenses under there, which is fine, but I guess I was just wondering uh why they were in there and not covered by the sales tax. **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** So, sales tax—I'm assuming you're looking in the sewer. Yeah. So Paul, if you can remember, sales tax covers—the only thing we use sales tax for on the sewer fund is a sewer trunk [15:14] line extension. Any capital equipment in sewer fund is normally um like trucks, items like that. And there is—yeah, trunks and pumps. So any capital equipment in sewer, it's just anything but sewer trunk line. Whether it's equipment or other capital improvements that's not part of the sewer trunk line, that's the only thing that can be expended on sales tax. What'd that mean? **Jim (Commission Chair):** Kevin, you're looking for a motion on this to bring to council? **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** Yes, please. **Jim (Commission Chair):** So move. **Howard:** Second. **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right. Jim makes a motion to approve, Howard seconds. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Not hearing any—motion approved to bring the 2022 utility budget to council. Thank you for all that information, Kevin. [16:33] Sure. Uh, other item on new business was the Ronald Johnson sewer discount request. And I recall correctly, a gentleman left his hose running for 10 days after watering his flowers and was requesting a refund on the sewer portion of the bill. **Lindsay Townsend (Utility Billing Clerk):** He personally came in to pay his bill and he was so embarrassed that that happened, and so he just thought it doesn't hurt to ask and throw it out there. **Jim (Commission Chair):** So he was comfortable with the water costs? **Lindsay Townsend (Utility Billing Clerk):** Yeah, yeah. And you know, he knows that he made a mistake, and but it was a big one to swallow. **Jim (Commission Chair):** That was a big one. Yeah, it looks like his history, his usage history and everything kind of backed what he was saying? **Lindsay Townsend (Utility Billing Clerk):** Absolutely. **Jim (Commission Chair):** And no issues with him as far as— **Lindsay Townsend (Utility Billing Clerk):** [17:21] No, he's very good. Good history. Yeah, good credit history. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Make a motion to uh credit the sewer bill $391.79 to Ron Johnson. **Bill:** I can second that. **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right, Jim makes a motion to approve, Bill seconds. All in favor? Aye. Aye. All right, I oppose? All right, motion carries to approve the discount on the sewer portion of his overrun. All right, next on the agenda for reports: the budget and actual expenditure reports. [18:10] **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Yeah, should we—it was after—yeah, and after that. So yeah, that's no, this is good. All right. So um Commission, you guys know that we've been talking about upgrading our water radios and reading system within Hermantown. Now, the system we've had in place now since about '05, give or take. Um, we once a month read our meters. Bob sets a route through the computer system, reads the route, brings it back here, it's dumped into Lindsay's billing system. We have to re-read, go on from there. We know that our radios are nearing the end of their [18:56] useful life. They're a 15 to 15 or so year known lifespan on them—usually go a little longer than that, but we're coming up on that time. We know that our reading software and reading unit will be discontinued in the future here, probably sooner than later. Um, so we're trying to get ahead of this to look at it because it is an undertaking to replace 2,500—ultimately 2,500 radios. And it's costly. Um, so Bob and I have been working with um Kirk from Corn Maine and Chance with Sensus. Um, we've been with them kind of forever really, Bob? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty much forever with our meters and radios. Um, radios for sure. Meters [19:42] to the best of our knowledge as long as we can go back. Anything that we've had and probably been here 17-ish years type of thing. So we've been working with them, we've done a bunch of background preliminary work on seeing how which—which kind of which system is best. There's kind of two paths we can go down. Um, we've eliminated it down to this AMI system. The AMI system is—it's more expensive, but in the long run it'll give us the most bang for our buck, the most look for longevity for the city's growth long term, and minimizing what we've already started with these types of radios. From there, I'm going to let Kirk and Chance kind of take it and [20:30] they've kind of got some points to talk to better than I can about this. Um, but I say we have—we spent a fair amount of time with these guys and I think this is the path we want to go down um as a city here to to better our department and better our customer service and our transparency to the citizens. So what you guys have at it? **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Yeah, if you could—the microphone and the closer you're the microphone, guys, then Rob and Grant will be able to hear you better. It's kind of a short microphone, it should pick you up, but I usually talk pretty loud. So, I'm Kirk Peterson with Corn Maine and Chance Curtis with Sensus. Uh, Corn Maine—we distribute uh for Sensus. So Sensus is a very large uh—they've been around for 140 years. [21:18] Yeah, so they're a very, very, very long-time metering company, and we distribute for them in many parts of the country. Um, and first off, thank you for your business for so long here in Hermantown, we appreciate that. So what we what we try to do is work with cities as technology gets older, as things get older, we always try to be proactive to help you move to the next best thing. So currently what you have is a drive-by system where you read once a month. Just takes a snapshot: "Here's the reading." Um, and what that does is really doesn't let you know anything that happened in those 30 days when you weren't reading the meters. But then we have a reading that comes back and then all of a sudden we have these big usages—people leave their hoses on, that kind of thing. It's like, "Oh wow, why don't we know about this? What can we do?" So um for a couple couple of years now, I [22:03] believe we've been putting in what are called the M-style radios. They're a migratable radio. So the radio is actually able to be both a walk-by/drive-by as it is currently—so Bob goes on and reads them that way—but it has the ability to migrate to what's called an AMI network, an Advanced Metering Infrastructure. So what that is: instead of having Bob go around with his mobile antenna reading everything, we put fixed antennas on top of a water tank, on top of a pole, and all the radios migrate from listening to the moving antenna to the fixed antennas. So what we did is we did do a propagation study for your city. We're looking at three antennas um in your system. Uh, the one antenna that actually would be on your your tallest water tower covers over 90 percent of your system already [22:49] just that one tower. So the additional towers we have those for what's called redundancy, because if for some reason something were to happen to one of those towers, we want to be covered so that you're still getting your readings, getting your information. **Jim (Commission Chair):** I've got a quick question. Uh, this will eliminate the drive-by then? **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Yes. Yes. [23:20] **Bob Miller:** Saving about 24 hours. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Okay, thank you. **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Yeah, and kind of on that note, City of Savage—they've got over 10,000 meters. It takes them about 15 minutes to read with their AMI network. So very quick communications. And the big reason why we have such quick communications: Sensus actually owns the frequency that these radios talk on. So you're also protected by the FCC, so no one can bleed over into your spectrum and cause interference with your stuff. If they do and we find out about it—find out where it's coming from—we can go to the FCC. The FCC will go after these people and say, "Adjust your frequency, get back into that free space where you're supposed to be," that sort of thing. So with our system, it's actually very quiet like this, and we actually talk point-to-point. So find the antenna, I talk to each one of you [24:06] individually. So if I needed any door read, Lindsay types in the radio number that she needs, I call it to you, you give me the read off the glass. This also is good for final reads. You can put a group together for whatever final reading needs to be done that day, send it out, it gets the information, pulls it back again, saving more time that the utility doesn't have to go out and do these things. What's also good about it is that you are reading six times a day, every four hours—hourly, too. And these are hourly data packs. You're reading every hour of every day, but the system only communicates to the antenna six times a day. And the duration of that communication is less than one second per day. Anytime we start talking about AMI, um, a lot of people go to the internet and believe things [24:52] that are in there, but not everything on the internet is true. So uh we actually have the lowest RF exposure out of any metering company that is out there because we only talk when we need to talk. And because we're the only ones on this frequency, we don't need to talk that often. Which is also why the radios have a warranty on them of 20 years: 15 full replacement, 5-year prorated. Everyone else in the metering industry is 10 and 10. So we're actually five years better on all of that. And if something were to happen, say you're 14.9—if it's warrantable, you get a brand new one back with a brand new 15 and 5 warranty on it, you know? And no one else in the industry does that either. So um [25:39] because you're able to read every hour of every day, that is also going to give you great information about knowing what's happening with your customers, what's happening in your system. So if someone leaves their hose running, and we have your alarm set up so that there's a continuous run alarm that can go off, if that happens over a certain duration of time, when that alarm gets triggered, that gets sent back via uh email or text to whoever you want that alarm to go to. So they can know about it. So it doesn't run for 30 days, 10 days, whatever. Right? So like this situation where the hose is running for 10 days, this may catch that depending on how your things are set up. Now the other side of it too, with your resolutions that you're currently at are 100 gallon, 1,000 gallon. Now you think [26:24] about a leaky toilet. It's going to take a very long time for that to get to that point where it's going to click over. So in your software you'll see—if you look at it in graph form—you'll have nothing, nothing, nothing, big bar 1,000 gallons, nothing, nothing, nothing, 1,000 gallons. You know, that's where we work with cities over time as you're doing these changeouts to eventually get you down to one gallon. And we can actually change the resolution of our meters over the air through the AMI network, so you don't actually have to go into the homes. Many of your meters that you have in your system currently have this capability. All of the iPERL meters, which are our solid-state meter, have that ability, as do all the commercial meters, the blue Omni meters that we put out there. And many of the earlier ICE registers, the older PV meters, also have this ability as well. So that's something [27:10] that we would work with you guys on. Timing-wise, I know billing is always a big driver of this. You know, it's not something we want to do in the middle of a billing cycle—to try to do it in between billing cycles. But again, helping getting more granular data for you guys that you can help your customers realize that, "Oh, you may not have used that water, but it went through your meter. You're responsible for it. Pay your bill." There is an optional customer portal that you could use. You're really not at that point because the resolution is the quantities that you guys have out there. But further down the road, you may look at it on that customer portal and then giving the customer the ability to log right in and set up their notifications depending on their usage or consumption of water within a certain time period was used. And then that puts the bonus [27:56] rate back on them as much as it does you. You can pick and choose those battles. You're going to get three years of information to go back and take a look at at any given time. Obviously you're not going to have that three years because you're starting at day one, but once you get to that particular period, that really gives you a lot more flexibility and decisions like what you just went through on making those choices with your customers. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Storage of data: say for some reason it loses communication with the stationary tower or something like that. Do the units themselves store data for a certain period of time? [28:43] **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Um, yes. Minimum at the radio is 35 days, the minimum at the meter is 45 days. **Chance Curtis (Sensus):** [28:56] But in the event that the power at the collector goes down, it should alarm us too, whether it goes to Lindsay or whoever and that's—it's okay, it's okay. Going to give all communications—the connectivity, the internet, you know—to get that information back to our servers. So as Jim's digging out his backyard and he hits the fiber optic cable and knocks out the internet, that—that's the reason why. **Jim (Commission Chair):** So yeah, that would happen again. [Laughter] You're the guilty one. Okay. This is all internet-based then, correct? [29:43] **Chance Curtis (Sensus):** For power communication collaborators, okay. The three collectors that uh talked about and the servers, which we house in our two server farms—could be well, one's all the way through—so anybody with the appropriate login and password credentials can go onto anywhere else on a computer or cell phone and pull up, get access to the system. Now from the collector to the house to the radio, that works out of a licensed RF spectrum that Sensus licensed through the FCC. We do a sublease which already—you guys already have. It's already embedded today. All the paperwork's done, actually, [30:30] as we have the license agreements and stuff like that already. Um, the only other thing that needs to be done is basically a what we call Sapphire as a Service agreement. It's basically just an agreement between Sensus and the City of Hermantown on the operation for the software. But everything is included in those fees—all the upgrades, all the additional changes and stuff to that software through this particular period. Lifespan's 15 to 20—meters for 15-20 years for the last step. This new stuff is going to exceed at least 20 years. And again, it's when you put this network up, it's not just about meter reading with this network because you can do additional things. [31:16] I know you mentioned streetlights; we actually can operate and control streetlights over your this exact same network. Uh, we can monitor pressures, we can monitor temperatures, we can monitor levels um on this exact same network, this exact same thing. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** So, go ahead Paul. Uh, so this radio frequency then is kind of like licensed to us, so we can use it for controlling other utility entities? **Chance Curtis (Sensus):** Our spectrum doesn't allow essentially real-time, but allows near real-time. We manage to back up a lot of different data systems in the event that the SCADA system goes down or you don't have a SCADA asset already out there. We [32:01] can put one of our modules in, connect it up to a PLC device that has logic in order to get that information back. So maybe you're looking at uh monitoring the pressure, you know, at a booster station or something like that. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** That's exactly thinking—pressure. **Chance Curtis (Sensus):** Maybe you have a lift station you want to monitor something that's going on there—a door. Completely separate utility system. But maybe at a park, um, you can do a lot of different things with this. You're basically putting up the umbrella—communication umbrella—over the City of Hermantown that allows you to do many more things than meter reading. This is the same system that Minnesota [32:47] Power has had out there for—I think since 2009-ish. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Is this an alert system or does it—that's a different alert system that you use now? The pressure system? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Oh yeah, that's not—it's them, but the pressure monitoring would help with that, right? Would that be able to—yeah, would it be? **Chance Curtis (Sensus):** But it would certainly help with that. It will also go back up with the back up toward SCADA or existing SCADA. [33:37] **Jim (Commission Chair):** I thought there would be some kind of alarm because the amount of water— **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** We always—usage, you know, start with your revenue and take care of that, which is your true purpose here, and then kind of work into these other divisions. But we do have a module for acoustic monitoring. So they're magnetic monitors that you put throughout your system and you listen basically in the lowest of hours—so 2:00 AM, 3:00 AM, something like that—where there's not a lot of activity going on. You're listening for those acoustical changes. So yes, we do have some things that may or may not help with that, right? **Jim (Commission Chair):** I'm assuming that the software that you guys are bringing on works with the billing software that we have currently. All compatible and currently being used, I'm guessing? [34:26] **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Yeah, your drive-by system, your AutoRead, is already synced to it. Basically with your AMI, it's a very similar file that's getting passed back and forth. So yes, there's—we haven't found a billing system we haven't been able to integrate with yet, including itself. **Jim (Commission Chair):** So do all the radios have to be changed on the homes then? Is this a different— [35:00] **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** The—changed. Some are going to be able to do a little bit over there other than take appointments inside the house um [35:28] because mine's on the outside of my house. **Jim (Commission Chair):** It is, um, but a lot of times inside they are protecting them, you know, whether it's from kids or snow—pale [35:54] elements. **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** [36:09] Okay. And we can do either either way. And we do have some cities that do all inside, we have some that do all outside—it's really a matter of their preference. Some cities like to have it outside so that they have 50 percent of their system outside so like you said, when people don't know you're there, they can just find out what's going on if there is an issue with that house right at that radio, they can talk to the meter from the outside. All that as well. However, because these are battery-operated devices, the batteries will protect themselves and basically shut down when it gets too cold. And so that's where in the wintertime you might get a little—a few patches where maybe you're not getting—maybe you should be getting—that kind of a thing. That's where a lot of other cities decided, "Well, we don't want to deal with that, we'll just put things inside and just go that route," because again, it's—do we have that problem now where it doesn't read in the cold, or do you know? [36:57] **Bob Miller:** Okay. Yeah, a lot of times in the wintertime— **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Yeah, a lot of times in the wintertime we recommend instead of going out first thing in the morning, maybe wait till after lunch because maybe now it's a little—it's warm enough where the radios are going to go, you know, be more responsive. So again, that's your preference, whatever you want to do. You basically get the same kind of uh output whether it's inside or out based on the propagation study we did, which actually ran both inside and outside as far as for coverage. And you're good either way with these three towers, plus you have the redundancy as well. I think it's over 87 percent full redundancy. **Jim (Commission Chair):** And that's about 2,500 radios, you figured? [37:48] **Chance Curtis (Sensus):** Um, propagation study's very conservatively uh in probably specifically about the area—those are kind of in that hole resource, yeah. But um we'll probably be able to pick those up just because we—when we do a propagation study, we sign up as a guarantee. If you choose to install all three as laid out in our propagation study, if there is any additional infrastructure that's needed beyond that in order to get above 98 and a half percent—which are right above—we will give you the additional infrastructure at no cost. [38:49] And if your system does go down, the entire system reverts back to walk-by/drive-by, so you're never unable. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Okay. So it goes backwards and forwards both for walk-by/drive-by. **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Let's go and back again. We're doing this currently up in International Falls, where they're on our AMI. They were drive-by before, went to the AMI, but now they're redoing their tower, took it down, and they're reusing their drive-by system to go get their reads again. So very robust, versatile system. **Jim (Commission Chair):** I guess I have a question—maybe this is for Kevin and you guys—payback? I mean, what's the payback on this? What's the savings on it? What are you looking at? We're making a pretty [39:35] good investment here. What's our savings on water, saving time-wise billing? Does anybody—do you know that? **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Every system is different. Um, you know, we always recommend on the metering side anytime you take out an older style moving-part meter and put in a solid-state meter—I mean myself personally, I've seen individual accounts have upwards of 20 percent payback on it, you know? But then once people figure out what their issues are, that starts coming down a little bit. So I know—I'll use the City of Savage as a reference point. I think they had—they expected full payback within five—I believe it was in three or four years, and they're a much larger system obviously. [40:21] You know, they went down to the single gallon, they went from PV meters to a solid-state meter like you guys are currently using with their iPERLs. And so they made some changes that we would try to help you guys make the changes as well. But you know, the more granular you get, the more kickback you get from it. **Jim (Commission Chair):** So you'd be safe saying maybe five years roughly? **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** I would say—I would hope within five years you'd well see this paid back. And then depending on how else you want to try to use it—adding different devices on that also helps with other things. And then instead of being once every 30 days, figure out what's going on in your system basically every morning. You know, Bob—whoever in your system or your city, whoever you want—can look and see what's happening in the system. So then you're more apt to have 100 percent reads when you come to the point of needing to do reads, you know? So it helps you guys be way more proactive. People are using their time way more proactively as well, which [41:07] obviously is a big savings for you guys also. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Who would be monitoring this? Would it be you or Lindsay, or who are you thinking, Paul? I mean, do you have to hire someone? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** [41:23] Um, [41:46] of [41:53] **Chance Curtis (Sensus):** [42:00] Occurs that triggers an alarm on our system that usually moves in within five minutes of data. So you can—your reaction time is real quick as far as the notifications something's occurring. [42:28] In the morning you're finally finding it. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Yeah, which is probably common, you know. Thankfully, you know I'm—um since we have continuous data to our water loss report, we'll be able to match the City of Duluth's readings now. We'll not have accurate years—you know what—that will—the first time and I think ever been on that would be nice. I mean, that's kind of—it's gotten a lot better. It's a great one, yes it really is. It helps to see how we're—how the city's running and—and how Paul is doing really. **Chance Curtis (Sensus):** But uh no, but it's nice to know that you're not losing a bunch of water. And there are a bunch of canned reports because these are—these are reports that are obviously [43:14] sought after by virtually every utility out there. So we have many reports that will assist you in that, and you can virtualize meters, you can aggregate meters, their particular zones on your distribution system or however you want to do it. You're able to add each of these meters into a device group and you can use those device groups for whatever reason that you want to do. Maybe it's an irrigation monitor, or maybe it's uh grouping the 16 meters within a complex together to give the landlord a uh overall report or something like that. So there's a number of different possibilities that you can use this beyond just your normal reading. **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** You can watch for snowbirds. If you know they're gone, they shouldn't have [43:59] consumption. But if you put them in a group, you can watch it. If consumption happens, you know something's going on in that house, you know where again it helps you. [44:13] Something breaks in the house—you know if you've gone through the window, it's a great option to have. Meter breaks at uh two years ago and we know there's water right now. [44:39] **Chance Curtis (Sensus):** [44:51] Which I actually probably show us when we do have the breaks really or the—the leaks that we don't know we have, but we know we have. But even before you choose to reach that 24 months, you can—you can strategically place these radios and meters across your system to help you monitor things. In the event that you don't have anything out in that particular section of town yet, you can add one or two devices out there. **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** [45:33] Any other questions or anything for us? I appreciate your guys's time. Thank you. Chat with you. Answering the question you had—a few of them there. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Yeah, it was nice to hear good answers. **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Yeah, if you have any additional questions, let them all know. Thank you. **Jim (Commission Chair):** What's the—what's the timeline on this? [46:06] **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Um, [46:29] **Jim (Commission Chair):** So what does the home install look like? Is it a magnet that goes on top of your—your meter or your water heater? [46:52] **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Um, it's essentially a possible palm pump size of my piano. Um, you already have them in every house, so it would be no—no real change from what you guys have out there. [47:20] And that's it. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Our boxes now—their battery also? They've never changed my battery. I don't know what's going on. [Laughter] **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** You'll get a new one soon. [47:43] **Jim (Commission Chair):** Mine's the first one done. So for curiosity, the three locations for the collector towers: is the water tower— [47:57] **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Okay. Okay. Okay. And that was the preliminary run that we did. Um, that seemed to work well out of all sites and stuff that Paul gave us. Um, but those three sites seem to work the best as far as propagation. Okay. [48:23] [48:34] We don't have to go through getting an easement from somebody or whatever? That's—yeah. [48:54] **Jim (Commission Chair):** And your company put the tower up or is that your deal, Paul? [49:07] **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Um, [49:24] **Jim (Commission Chair):** I guess Bob is the primary user. You haven't had a good experience using the system that we have now? **Bob Miller:** [Faint response] **Jim (Commission Chair):** Good improvement to move forward with it, and it'd be a good improvement to move forward with the system and what we're talking about. [50:03] **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** And I think the residents are looking for that, just based on last summer with the water usage spike that we saw and their concerns. They're looking for more transparency and information on their individual systems, or at least a large group of them. **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** So you're gonna get a lot of data. [50:24] Trend graph, uh just interval trees and stuff like that. And hand over that information to that situation—that customer that you're trying to resolve the situation with um for—and when you have that information on a piece of paper, it's amazing how quick those conversations change. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Can you guys help with the training of the system there? **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Okay, just so you know, I don't just sell it to you guys. I actually stick—or stick around for the entire thing: troubleshooting, integration, training, all of that. **Jim (Commission Chair):** [Music] Are you local here or out of the cities, or— **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** I'm—I live in Plymouth, but I cover all the way up through the [51:10] Arrowhead out to Grand—Grand Forks. Got a big territory, but I don't just vote for it. Okay. We have—just to give you an idea—we have 35 of these systems here roughly—well, I know it's over—yeah, it's like 60 of them within the three-state or four-state area. Anywhere from 212 meters—well that's coming, that was a city council last week—right now the Minneapolis Airport at 304 meters all the way up to Minnesota, you know, under whatever they are holding some council big systems. [51:54] **Jim (Commission Chair):** Are you looking for anything from us on this today or just informational and uh— [52:14] **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Um, **Jim (Commission Chair):** Rob or Councilor Hauschild, you guys have any comments or in virtual land? **Rob:** Nothing here. **Grant Hauschild (City Councilor):** Yeah, nothing here, but I look forward to the system. I think it'll be a good improvement. **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right, thank you. **Kirk Peterson (Corn Maine):** Thanks for your time, guys. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you very much, we appreciate it. All right, thank you, Paul, for bringing them in. And yeah, I mean I apologize for taking as long as it has, but I wanted to say—I wanted to make sure we had enough information and good information to give you instead—well it could be this, it could be that. I—I want to start on a path and continue doing it. **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** And then the funding for this—this is—this will be fund with sales tax. Yeah, because it is a water system improvement um as a whole and on multiple—as you can see, multiple levels. And you know, they haven't mentioned a couple things tonight that I didn't know. Yeah, and this was like 500,000. [53:39] That takes 650,000 over two years—that's a win for the ratepayers if it's going to come out of the sales tax. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Yes, yeah for sure. You know, I'm looking at it—the stuff that we had last year, I'm surprised we haven't had anything with all the drought being out right now yet. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** I think that's coming. It jinx—doesn't—I think it's coming that there's gonna be people, "Well, why are we using so much?" because I've gone by and I see all these—oh yeah, everybody—everybody's watering right there and they're not going to realize that they're jumping tiers yeah quickly right there and—and they forget that you pay the sewer on top of that. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Yeah, and both, you know—well the sewer stays the same, correct? It's the water that increases. Yeah, but you're still—but you still pay it and it still adds up. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Correct, exactly. [54:28] And there's no credit for that because this is brand new construction. Correct. So they're going to be some questions coming soon. **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** We really think our bills—the bill format is completely different and it gives you all the information, and every month they can see their little graph, they can sit in tiers. So we really think that has—because there has been high usage months this summer—so we really think that's calmed the waters as far as people passing because they can see it all right there. It's black and white. **Jim (Commission Chair):** I like the bill. Yeah, I don't want to pay it, but I like it. So who's going to write the RFP for it? [55:16] **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Um, that will have to figure out I guess. I'm not 100 percent sure. Probably our city engineer will probably work with David. Um, and you know, work with their—we've been with—we've been with Cornman and Sensus um I think the R-type radios came out in 1993. We started installing those in 2005. We had Sensus meters in prior to that. Um, are there other systems out there? Sure. I'll be honest, I don't want to go down a different path. I know um Badger and Itron they're splitting ways—they've kind of got—if I understand it right, they have the City of Duluth kind of backed in a corner and I believe the City Duluth to some degree back in the corner. Um, there's—they have—it's just—it's a mess between the—the meter and the radials and the reading system and how that all works. You know, these guys on their own radio frequency um [56:04] they're—I don't wanna—I would say their problem from the research I've done and talking with them, talking with a couple other communities, this is where we wanna be. This will reduce a lot of our headaches long-term—longer than I'll be here. This is a great step, a lot longer than any of us will probably be in in—you know—work with us on the commission or working for the city. Um, I think long-term it's going to help us huge. You know, I mean and the City of Hermantown can really only grow to the west for the most part, and we're going to have coverage to the west as that happens, and we're not going to have to worry about it. And we can start with those new meters, you know—those higher-end meters that he's talking about. That would be a second step to this whole thing. I'd love to be able to come in and replace 2,000 meters, but I know that that's probably not going to happen. It's—I mean it'd be great to go in the house one time, change the meter, the radio, boom [56:49] you're done. Financially, I don't think that works for the city. And you know, I haven't run the numbers on it, but at the same time not the dumbest guy in the room either. So um I'll figure that out and we'll do that as a next step. We have then we'll have the infrastructure for reading the stuff in place. We can work on those maybe in smaller groups or going to you know this development, that—that sort of thing, and get there to have the one-gallon read. And then you know, then you can show real-time data—100 percent real-time data. Gallon water got used, it's there. You know, right now we're on between a hundred or a thousand-gallon pulse depending if you're—so you use a few extra thousand gallons of water, it's gonna show up in the system and it's gonna you know—usually you did—did you [57:34] use? This would be a great diagnostic tool for a lot of different things. And like they talk about too, it does give us redundancy on it. The first thing it does, it gives us redundancy for I think it's like another thousand or twelve hundred dollars on our existing SCADA system. We don't have that right now. Communications go down, we get an alarm all time of day or night, no wonder what's going on, you know? We're looking at Minnesota Power, we're talking about Mediacom, all that stuff where this would give us that backup that we don't have right now. So using the sales tax dollars and going to— **Jim (Commission Chair):** To write the RFP, can we go proprietary request, or do we have to— **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** We would still have to write an RFP that would be written tight enough to where, yes, others are going to be able to do it, but nobody else will probably be able to meet it. [58:22] Just have to go through the process. Maybe somebody can sell it, but there's no reason—funding. And if we only get one proposal, you solicited it publicly, you got one proposal, you go with that proposal. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Yeah, I don't wanna put ourselves in a box there. No, right, no. Right. No, we've—we've talked with the city attorney about it. We've looked at, you know, talked to these guys about it. We're not the first one to the table to have to do that, either. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Right, okay. I guess the one thing Paul, I asked—have you seen—have you talked to any of the other communities that had this newer system put in yet? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Oh, we've talked with Savage a little bit. Another 10,000 customers. Okay. We did talk with them. Um, that's probably the only one that I've really spent any time with, and it wasn't a lot, but they absolutely they [59:08] can't say enough good about it. So they're just—established—they're—they're head over heels about it. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Okay. You know, that's—that's completely metro versus us being metro and rural. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Yep. But at the same time, at some point in the future, we're gonna be all metro, right? I mean as metro as Hermantown can be. The Duluth, right, right. Um, so that—that's kind of why I use that one—looking long-term vision for the city is that's where we're going to end up more likely. So let's just talk with them, you know, knowing that Minnesota Power's with them also. You know, whether it's in town, rural, it works. **Jim (Commission Chair):** So say in this case—I should have asked them—so if MP has that and we move further west and you know, yeah that's gonna be a dead zone then, I'm guessing. You know, I—where I live way out [59:55]—can they use Minnesota Power's tower? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Actually, with—with—I'd have to look at the map that I just got this afternoon out of this propagation study, but using the water tower at Hawk Circle with the antenna on it, it gets us beyond Midway Road. Wow. Go past the state limits, past the—well, you know we go a mile past—we go to Solway Road. Okay, which is the um—so I would have to look at it, but it gets us a very, very big—very big small midway which could be a major corridor or something in ranger. Yep. So maybe it covers north? I mean, wow. I mean that's—that is impressive. Yeah, I was—I was shocked when I saw with one power we can get 2,259 of the 2,400 customers. That for me— [1:00:40] that's—that's a lot. Good. Am I talking too much Kevin? Yeah, you were telling me not to talk too much. **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** It's very informative, so thank you for that. **Jim (Commission Chair):** I think it's your turn to talk more. I'm getting a lot smarter right now. Yeah, you want to go right in Paul? You're here in the maintenance report. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Um, two pages—phone. I tried to—try to highlight what we did in the month. You know, some months, some spots there are um nothing. You know, Peyton Acres being one of them. Um, Morris Thomas—when I wrote the report, we added a valve in or decided to add a valve where they're relocating that water underneath Keene's Creek. It gave them a better starting point, helps us isolate if we [1:01:25] ever have problems in that area. Um, contractor was happy to install that. We basically supplied them the valve, they installed—ultimately no cost at this point because they had a bad—have some fitting to start with and the valve we bought them was one bolt. So going—they were—they were good with that. Um, the Lake Junction—all they had left there was a sanitary—sanitary manhole to lower, which they did and that's done. All that sewer is complete. The road was paved last week if nobody—nobody has been down it. Um, it's a nice walk or ride. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Um, what was the purpose—just the small sections of curb and just up— **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** That's for stormwater runoff, because those ditches off of um the two residents were so steep in there. Um, and I had expressed that concern early on in the design process. They [1:02:10] thought it was going to work out and it's how—it's one of those things where sometimes it looks great on paper and you get it in the field it just doesn't quite jive. That's where it is. So it's just to collect the water on either side of those hills to get it down and divert it into the ditch and not have those residents having a one-to-one ditch in the front of their yard. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Are they going to have any rip-rap or anything at the end of the curb run so that we don't have erosion? I noticed that yesterday, especially on the eastbound one where it drops off into that swamp, that we're gonna have to do something there. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Um, I didn't mention it to David or Chase today, but um I will be bringing that up to them. Well, that's one yes I had when I saw that there was going to be—oh yeah, there's going to be something. I just noticed it this morning um early. Um, I included with you uh in in the [1:02:57] packet a hydrant policy that um we don't have a formal—a real formal hydrant policy in town. Um, we've had some issues um in the last couple years and just felt it was time to get it something in writing hard there. Biggest thing is whether it's our department, our fire department, or neighboring fire department for mutual aid coming to grab water out of hydrants—we're fine with that. However, when it's November, December, January, we don't know about it—we go to it and it's either broke or it starts leaking or what have you. Um, we want to know about it. We're asking them: if you use the hydrant from November 1st to April 1st, you use the hydrant, you pump it down, then you let us know. Then we'll go back the next morning and make sure that it's—that it's good. That's [1:03:44] probably the biggest thing in there. Um, so with you, I wanted you guys to see it first, then I will sit down and talk to the fire department about it if I have to. We'll show them what needs to be done. Um, which is—I mean it's not rocket science—you stick a hose down there, you pump it out, and 10 minutes later you're done. And that's why, you know, they're—in the past they may or may not call us. They'll get down to the fire, "Oh yeah, we pump out this hydrant," you know, 3:00 o'clock in the morning. Well you're there, you used it, please pump it out for us. But we don't—no. So we just need to get over that hurdle. But now there's something in writing. With your blessing, I'll talk with them um and then we can get this into our policy handbook um that we have here with the city. Um, that was pretty much a water utility in July. [1:04:32] Sanitary: um the punch list is being completed on the—the trunk line. There's—I think they have two manholes that they have to raise yet up um to the trail level. Outside of that, the sanitary work is all done, everything is accepted, passed. It's been in service since January. On our GIS grant: we ended up having to give that grant back. We were not able to secure anyone. The—the timing of things just didn't work out this year. And I spoke with—I spoke with WLSSD about it. Um, they've ultimately assured us that if we reapply, they'll give us a verbal green light so we can start speaking with UMD much sooner than we were this year. This year we caught it like a week before, two [1:05:17] weeks before graduation—that just didn't work, it didn't jive unfortunately. I mean and that was what they told me was that was one of the biggest reasons that they gave us the grant for this—is because we're working with the local educational institution on this. Um, so we gave the money back. They were able to get another community to use the money in the 2021 year. We should be—we'll reapply for in '22 and we'll get the grant and we'll be able to do data collection next year. Um, the bummer is a year behind, but as you all have seen everywhere, it's hard to find anybody to work right now for whatever reason that is. Um, so there's that. Um, and we end up cleaning—uh, we actually cleaned, to the best of anybody's knowledge, it's the first time we've cleaned any of our [1:06:04] trunk line um that was installed—some of it 20 years ago it was the main trunk line that was installed. We—it was spurred by—we had on a call um on a Friday evening or late in the day from a surveyor who's doing some work out by Keene Creek Townhomes. They said they noticed it looked like some soda was starting to—starting to burp out of a manhole. Immediately left, got there. Yes, there's a blockage. We've got that blockage going. As we're cleaning that lateral that goes off the trunk line to Keene Creek Townhomes—which we're trying to figure out whose responsibility is that? We're not sure if it's ours or theirs. I think it's ours, but got the development agreement, just working my way through that lovely language in there. Um, we decided to—from from Okerstrom Road where the actually [1:06:49] all the way from where they tied the trunk sewer up on Okerstrom um by Ingwalls all the way down to Morris Thomas. Right now we've cleaned that entire mile and quarter, mile and a half. Um, as soon as Northland Constructors is done with all of their work down around the Keene Creek Park, we'll continue and clean the rest down through the park, get all that off-road stuff done. Um, we did pick out a fair amount of gravels in there. What that's from? Don't know. But we felt, you know, 20 years, we're seeing some eddying in the flow lines. I have something going on here, let's—let's take a look at this. So we did do that. Um, changed up our cleaning a little bit from this year, but that's our main pipe out of town too, so let's keep that—keep that good. And it is not televised—not recently anyway. [1:07:36] Put it that way. Um, it would be nice, yes. I'm looking to, you know, see where my budget ends up towards the end of the year, but if we have money left, that is where I plan on using it—is to televise that couple mile run of that pipe there. Yes, I want to do that. I think everything is good, it's just you don't know until you put the camera in there, right? Um, so that was a sanitary. Swan Lake Road bridge is completed. They're working on paving that job—well I think they started today. I didn't get over there today, but I believe they're starting here today. I see them. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Yeah, yesterday they were—were they? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Okay. They're different than what I was told um last week. And then we're under contract with HMI um to take care of these couple of curb [1:08:22] replacements along um Arrowhead Road by Essentia and then out further by Uggs or Arrowhead 3 Lift Station. Um, they're supposed to start this week. A couple of things took a little bit longer than anticipated with that. Some jobs are wrapping up, so it'll probably be early next week that they'll get started on that. But they've assured me about a week's worth of work. Get it done. It'll be done before school starts. Um, a couple of those—I don't know how people get in their driveways. There's one for sure. **Jim (Commission Chair):** One for sure out there. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Yeah, we had actually had to put some cold mix in there this year so he was not bottoming his car. Um, how would he white-heave—we can't figure it out. I think there's a dissimilar material between the road bed and the back of curb, and that's what's causing things to move so bad. Um, yeah, and it's odd because it's isolated sections. [1:09:09] No, it's a 100, 200-foot section and then everything looks great. It's really weird. Um, we do have a couple more hydrants. Looking ahead, we have a couple more hydrants that we need to relocate and or repair yet this year. We have a full dig, and then we've got six or so um driveway culverts to replace on the list as of right now. And then we've been doing some ditch cleaning. Probably saw we did clean the ditch behind the school by our Hawk Circle water tower. When they put that addition on, the stormwater pond behind the bus garage was added. That entire ditch line was rip-rapped with river rock, and it collected every smidge of silt that's come off that thing in the last six years [1:09:54] and was impeding the flow of water out of the entire area. So we spoke with the school district. We cleaned that ditch out, what you know, to help our asset at um at the Hawk Circle out. And then we also—there used to be a wooden building adjacent to the water tower which held communications for the bus garage, but then also St. Louis County. St. Louis County stuff has been out of there for years. Um, we dismantled the repeater for the bus garage, put that inside the water tower itself, eliminated the building altogether to kind of clean up that whole area—eliminate the slab, clean up that whole area. Um, look—makes it look a little more presentable. Um, that was just done this week. You probably see we're waiting for a rain to make sure that [1:10:40] the fall is very minimal for minimal for a good portion there. So we're hoping for rain like everybody is. Um, but we want to see rain this weekend and make sure there's nothing else that we need to you know take care of our one little area or not. **Jim (Commission Chair):** So driveway culverts—how many have you done total this—this year? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** We've not done any yet this year. We've—we've been holding off. We've been between hydrants and valves that have popped up what we've had to do. Um, we just haven't gotten any of those. So we're kind of waiting till after school stuff—we get our bigger stuff done and there. And we also have to dig over um on Haynes Road, right from Kevin Runke's house where that big hump was. We have to dig that. We're waiting on Costco to try and piggyback that with when they've got other lane closures and stuff going on to do that one there. There's got to be a service—they [1:11:25] couldn't hear it on our leak detection, but there's got to be enough of a weep there that it's causing something to go on. And assured St. Louis County we would look at it this year and work very close to that. **Jim (Commission Chair):** So, oh, I have one request from a neighbor about a hydrant. Um, just down the road from me, when the road was built—talked to somebody about possibly putting a dirt pad in there so he can keep it clean for the wintertime. Probably no way I know about where it is there yet. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** I think he actually spoke to us when David and um I and the contractor were through then did a warranty walkthrough. Um, I think or that it was up on Alexander though, I thought—is that where you're talking to? [1:12:11] **Jim (Commission Chair):** Her. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Okay. Because I know there's one that David put it on. I'd really like to not have to do it. Um, I guess it all depends on if the—it's kind of a steep ditch there. **Jim (Commission Chair):** He used to clean it out all the time—keep it clean for the fire department, certainly. And then greatly—greatly appreciate that. Um, but with the hydrant being pushed back for—I think that was relocated if I remember right. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Yeah, and it sticks up pretty high. It does. Um, I'd really like to not have another culvert to have to maintain and or a gravel pad to maintain. Um, I'd prefer to leave it that way. If they're adamant, I guess we could really look at it, but I guess it's a safety thing for the fire department more than anything. And they've been through there. I spoke with a couple different people from the department asking kind of them, and they don't seem to have a wish one way or the other, you know? [1:12:56] They say if there's a snow bank there, we can get there, you know? If especially the middle deep winter it's frozen, we can get across that and get there. It's high up, it would be above the bank. So with the ditches—the ditches are taking up a lot of the snow volume, so they're able to get to the hydrant almost easier sometimes than when it was at, you know, ground level to have buried. Now, you know, this one obviously took care of. Um, at the same time, it's—they're not noticing anything different, I guess. So. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Okay, back like just for a second, back to the budget. I did note something on the sewer uh legal fee—an increase of 291 percent. Did we have a claim or something? **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** We didn't, we just never [1:13:42] I guess we've never charged legal fees to sewer before, and this year we started. I believe we started having some um not any claim per se. Okay. We're just doing work on like Lindsay and I are redoing the water and sewer policy, which we—the ordinance which we brought to you, and we're looking at policies now redoing. So it's more administrative legal work for the sewer department than any claim-related schoolwork. Um, before we never had the attorney working the fees where they should be pretty much. Lindsay—my fault—for trying to redo everything, and we're having the attorneys look at our ordinances, our policies. That's a bad thing, though, right? But that's why I figured we should budget it for it in 2022. **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right, I thought maybe there was a claim against us or something. **Kevin Orme (Finance Director):** Nope, no claim. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Right. Okay, good question. And I just have a thing [1:14:29] for you Paul on the handbook, or that policy—hydrant policy. Uh, we're still doing the pool filling? The—I mean the fire department can do it? How do they judge the amount of water? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Well, they know their bankers x. Okay. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Okay. It's in there that they can't do it. The investment, right? And that's the way we kind of left it if I remember right there. [1:15:03] And then on the—on the metered use: uh, if someone requests a meter like Arrowhead Concrete or whatever, does the city put that meter in? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Yes. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Okay. I didn't see that in the—in the policy. I don't know if that's in there—maybe I missed it. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** That isn't another one—isn't it—don't you have that—that—that—that you guys put the meter on in another policy? **Lindsay Townsend (Utility Billing Clerk):** Yeah. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Because I thought there's something redundant there. **Lindsay Townsend (Utility Billing Clerk):** Yeah. Yeah. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Because we—because I—you did that specifically because we had some that they're putting their own meter on, or they had their own meter and we didn't—you didn't know about it. Exactly. And there was—there was a mess—there was a big mess. [1:16:01] **Jim (Commission Chair):** That's okay. I mean as long as it's covered by you guys. [1:16:27] I was just curious if you gave it to them and they were able to hook it up. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Okay. On the hydrant meter— [1:16:39] yeah. Now will this new system be able to monitor those? You know, what do I say—one of our [1:16:56] um [1:17:10] I guess one other thing on utilities um kind of on a my work work docket: MNDOT's going to be putting in a roundabout at Midway Road and 194 and then an RCI intersection—a Reduced Conflict Intersection—at 194 and Highway 53 just on the outskirts of Hermantown. Um, we made—I think they've reached out—I gave them both you and them for Paul and Dave both um to reach out and just see what utilities we have in the area and make sure there's no conflicts. Um, either of you've gone back? [1:17:51] Okay. And I haven't been directly involved in this. Was about two weeks ago I gave you guys contact information, and I heard the other day that nobody responded before. [1:18:16] And I can—I can talk to you offline on that too. Hopefully it's not going to be a whole lot of cost for the city. There's probably a hydrant relocation at [1:18:33] yeah. The only thing that doesn't—I don't know where it's located, but MNDOT doesn't allow any utilities within the circle of the roundabout—the travel circle. [1:18:49] Okay. Yeah, I didn't think we had a whole lot in the area. **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right, any other discussion for utilities? All right, well thank you Paul. A water loss report—getting—getting down to the for a percentage it looks like that's a good thing, or is it just the building said—any discussion on the point zero three percent? [1:19:34] All right. Uh, next report: WLSSD monthly flow, rainfall, and flow report. I have nothing on that. [1:19:44] It's been dry, so we shouldn't have a bunch I and I spikes or anything in there. All right. New connections report. Doesn't look like there's been a whole lot of building going on in the last month anyway. A lot of new connections. Just for curiosity, what's being put in by the old uh maintenance garage there by Menards in the corner of 53 and Arrowhead? **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** Yeah. Oh okay. When Bob and I drove by there and it says "probably financed by," but they're putting—oh oh okay. I think there's four. [1:20:30] [1:20:39] **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right. And then the utilities—Utility Billing Happenings report. We have over a thousand portal accounts now. We're at the century mark. Yeah, Lindsay, good job on the past year. **Lindsay Townsend (Utility Billing Clerk):** Yes, significantly. Yeah. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Was that true before or after the shutoff notices went out? **Lindsay Townsend (Utility Billing Clerk):** Um, that was—I honestly—I don't remember. Um, yeah probably would have been before. Um, and for the shutoff notices that went off, there are 12 accounts that have paid in full. I do have a couple other [1:21:24] people um that have made partial payments and plan to be paid in full by Monday, okay, or by end of day Monday. **Jim (Commission Chair):** So so that was an effective tool then. **Lindsay Townsend (Utility Billing Clerk):** Yeah, yeah definitely. **Jim (Commission Chair):** So the 120 days—the nine there. Do you have any information sharing us? Is that something that they're just being obstinate? **Lindsay Townsend (Utility Billing Clerk):** Yeah, they're um the same people that have been on that list for a long, long time. Um, and based on notes that Janice had in the system um repeat people that it's just kind of their normal thing too. **Jim (Commission Chair):** And these are utility users, not just the stormwater? **Lindsay Townsend (Utility Billing Clerk):** Correct. Yeah, this is just the water sewer utility. [1:22:11] Um, yeah so I'm kind of learning who who's on that list regularly. Um, yeah. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Okay, thank you. Any other discussion on that? Oh, and I appreciate you getting back to me in this about the year-end of the 4.7 uh increase from the City of Duluth. 2023 is that's good to know. All right, move on to Commissioner Report. Jim, you're first. I have nothing other than uh because of Kevin, John Mulder or you contacted him about the power pole, he [1:22:56] got back to me. Great. So I appreciate your help on that. Did they put a carving in there for you? Oh, they're gonna take it down—maybe you had a chainsaw. [Laughter] Another one of mine—not a good idea. All right, Bill? **Bill:** No report, thank you. **Jim (Commission Chair):** Robert? **Robert:** No, nothing from me. **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right, Howard? **Howard:** No report. **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right, well Councilor Hauschild, are you still on? **Grant Hauschild (City Councilor):** I'm still here, yep. Uh, no—no report. Um, well actually maybe the only—the only thing I would mention—and this is unrelated a little bit to utilities—but um we're doing our Boulder Trail [1:23:43] on this upcoming Tuesday um at five o'clock. It's at that the Stebner Park parking lot entrance to the new trail. So if anybody's interested in coming, we'll have like food trucks and—and an event and stuff there. So all right. **Paul Senst (Public Works Director):** My daughter will be playing soccer. **Grant Hauschild (City Councilor):** Great, thank you. [1:24:07] **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right. And I have no report myself. Gladly make a motion to adjourn at uh the Utility Commission meeting at 6:55. **Howard:** I'll second that. **Jim (Commission Chair):** All right, call in favor? Aye. In the opposed? All right, thank you guys. Thank you. Good night. Thank you Rob, take care. Bye bye. All right.