Based on the context provided for the municipality and the dialogue within the transcript, here is the formatted version with speaker identifications. **Note on Identifications:** * **Steve Nordin** is identified as the Chair based on being addressed by name and leading the meeting. * **Diane Johnson** provides the staff report details. * **Alex Burlick** identifies himself as the representative for Central Trucking. * **Bill Angerman** (City Engineer) is identified as the technical staff member providing engineering guidance (referred to in text as "Neil," likely a consultant or mis-transcription of "Bill"). * **Matt Montgomery** is the Mayor. * **Jake Winchell** and **Leon Hansel** are identified via contextual cues regarding the subdivision application. *** [7:27] **Steve Nordin:** you guys are moving okay i'm going to call the planning commission meeting for march 14 2022 to order roll call yes me here johnson here emma here christiansen is absent montgomery here is can i get a motion to approve the agenda so moved a second motion in a second to approve the agenda all in favor aye aye opposed series approval of minutes the minutes from the last meeting [8:16] **Steve Nordin:** motion to approve second motion in a second to approve the minutes from last meeting any discussion all in favor aye opposed perry public input is there a public input sheet anybody sign in on that [8:43] **Steve Nordin:** lost that's the front page somewhere don't forget so it looks like there's nobody here for public input so we're just going to waive that part public hearing conditional use permit for pid one 525-3000 for truck terminal business um i'll open the public hearing diane you wanna give us the details [9:30] **Diane Johnson:** okay i'm going to break down 152 648w which is the truck terminal conditional use permit number one vehicular access point shall be located along arterial streets and should be limited and designed and constructed to create a minimum of conflict with through traffic movement and shall be subject to approval of the city engineer on this one vehicle access points pending per application and approval from goodhue county and mndot for said access points number two a drainage system subject to the approval of city engineers shall be installed staff finds that drainage system plans are pending will require approval of city engineer in mndot number three storage areas are landscape fenced and screened from view of neighboring uses abutting residential zoning districts and public right of way in compliance with 152 278 of this chapter landscaping fencing and screening staff approves waving fencing in exchange for fully adhering to all landscaping requirements listed in 152 648 w 4a 4b 4c and 4d n15278 staff strongly suggest screening on the corner of 63rd avenue and 64th avenue adjacent to residential property 32443 64th avenue way cannon falls minnesota i do want to add one little thing in there um we probably should make sure that if there is screening there that it adheres to the site visibility triangle number four at the boundaries of the lot the following landscaped areas should be required landscaping staff approves with full compliance to all requirements in 152 648 w 4a 4b 4c 4d and 152 278 as noted on the landscaping plan number five traffic site visibility should be maintained in compliance with 152 186 of this chapter traffic site visibility staff recommends approval of site plan number six provisions are made to control and minimize noise air and water pollution minima staff finds minimize noise air and water pollution staff recommends approval if all conditions are addressed number seven crude oil gasoline or other liquid storage tanks as an accessory use not for providing service to the general public provided that items a through g describing the location and restrictions regarding storage tanks uh there will not be any storage stains located on the site so that is not a problem number eight all storage and parking areas are black topped or concrete surfaced unless specifically approved by city council surfacing staff will not recommend approval without meeting all of the requirements of ordinance 375 past may 20th 2021 allowing gravel pavement on this project but set a precedent for all building projects in the city of cannon falls moving forward this ordinance was passed in part due to runoff concerns which cause city catch bus basins to fill up staff feels that it would be difficult to enforce this ordinance with other projects in the future if we waive this requirement now number nine all lighting should be in compliance with 152 187 of this chapter or other lighting standards in place at the time of project approval a comprehensive lighting plan should be submitted as part of the conditional use permit application maximum illumination shall not exceed 4 10 foot candle at ground level when measured at any boundary line with an adjoining property or any public property lighting staffer recommends approval of the lighting plan as presented [Music] number 10 there was an engineering report enclosed all engineering requests will have to be met for final staff approval [13:20] **Steve Nordin:** thanks Di. you're welcome uh anybody want to speak to the public hearing [Applause] [13:30] **Alex Burlick:** hello my name is alex burlick i'm from rochester minnesota i work for sch i represent central trucking and submitted the cup application on the behalf i'll just give you a little background too in addition to what dianna's already said so the owners are looking to build two buildings on the site so one is going to be a 6 000 square foot building another 10 000 square foot building the 6 000 square foot building the primary function will be is the office for central trucking so about a third of the building will serve for that purpose the rest of the building will be a storage area that will be for storing equipment as it's unloaded from trailers and then reloaded into the new trailers as they come in the 10 000 square foot building is going to be used for maintenance of trucks for semi trucks and for semi-truck trailers so that's the primary function of the property is for the maintenance of those vehicles and that docking section of the 6000 square foot building so when a truck comes in it's got a full load trailer is unusable they unload into that room swap it out with a new trailer put the equipment back in and then they go while their trailer gets fixed so the north portion of the site is for that operation for the maintenance operation the southern portion of the site is for trailer storage so there's a ordinance that was passed where their current operation is in the cities where they're not allowed to store semi-truck trailers outside anymore so therefore they're looking for a new place to move some of that stuff so they're looking to move that to the southern portion as diane did recommend so the you guys are recommending for that to be bituminous pavement the owners were requesting that if there is an option to allow that to be gravel i know the timing isn't really nice but uh had this been done over a year ago it perhaps would have been acceptable so i wonder if the commissioners could take that in mind as if the timing wasn't when it was when this ordinance was passed would be acceptable within the old code also with the stormwater bmps and what's shown on the grading plan there is very minimal risk of there being any runoff from the gravel parking lot and entering into the city system because of the bmps require the filtrate or the uh they require separation of the sediments and solids before it is um allowed to go off-site for the current mpca requirements and this site will uh all will by by requirement it's supposed to drain to those bmps so as it is a green site so its discharge must meet the current condition of the site um i think that's about it i guess if there's anything else that the commissioners have or if the public has any other questions i guess i'd just like to be available if anybody has any [16:03] **Bill Angerman:** steve i have one comment um neil and i did discuss this and would be willing to recommend phasing of the parking lot where half of it would be surfaced and the other half would remain grass until they would be able to finish the surfacing [16:29] **Steve Nordin:** any comments from the public the second call any other comments from the public third call is there any comments from the public if not i'll close the public hearing uh midi discussion uh a question for diana neal if we and i guess for the business too if we phased it in for half surfaced and then the other half would remain graft so that it would not be able to be available for parking exactly yes and then [17:15] **Alex Burlick:** when the finances are such pave the other half exactly if you're okay with that yeah is that it's it's not as desired but yes as an alternative approach if that's something that's necessary that's something we can discuss all the stormwater bmps would be constructed or the plans would be as such as if it was the full build condition so we would likely still build out the bmps required for stormwater and then as you know such time comes where the finances are available or for the business if it is available to pay if they would then do so so but it would all be permitted at the with the final site plans as long as that's okay with staff as well [17:51] **Steve Nordin:** would you likely start with the the two buildings in the north half be paved and then the southern half or how would you phase it in [18:01] **Alex Burlick:** likely i would imagine we haven't really discussed that yet as the owners are currently out of the country but yeah that's likely what would happen there'd be a portion of that that would be paved right away i would think because there is an immediate need for some of that but not for the full build out so that's something that might have to take place over time [18:32] **Diane Johnson:** the only reason it's a concern for us not to have part of it gravel is because we have other businesses that are kind of watching and they've already said they're they will comply with the impervious surface so we don't want to tell them they have to until you it's okay not to so that's why we thought if you would keep it in grass until you can [18:49] **Alex Burlick:** yeah no that's that's understandable i know this was kind of an uphill battle as we started so yeah a little unfortunate on the timing side of things [18:58] **Steve Nordin:** any other comments would there be any future plans of more than just a trucking port or is this going to be the the buildings for um offices and for working on the trucks and then just storing or would there be any ideas for the future or is this the main purpose [19:15] **Alex Burlick:** there's talks of potentially expansion on the maintenance facility building but that's the only building that would likely expand i don't think that they would expand the docking building or the office building based on what they've said so far [19:30] **Steve Nordin:** so it's going to be a lot of cross-docking is that what you're going to be doing what's that crosstalk cross docking [19:42] **Alex Burlick:** like a little bit it's not the it's not a primary function there's only two dock doors that serve for that kind of oh okay so it's not yeah it's most of the time the trucks there's a they can service six tractor trucks at the same time and then only they can only service two full truck and trailers based on what they've got for design for a building right now thank you [20:19] **Steve Nordin:** okay question do you have are you gonna have your own fuel there no any other hazardous materials we should know about other than lubricants yeah the typical things you'd see for maintenance and what's the time frame for the first phase once you start [20:30] **Alex Burlick:** spring construction so they would likely be in operation by fall by fall the and that would be one-third of your of your space or one half that we haven't hasn't been discussed yet you're not sure how far you're gonna but the buildings will come in first the buildings will be a part of the first phase okay thank you because if if the purpose of moving out of where you're currently located is because they won't allow you to store the trailers there anymore is there going to be enough room on half the lot for the storage you need their their current lot is a lot smaller so i would think that that would be sufficient for what they have so this is a much larger site than their current site minneapolis and maybe i didn't understand all the trailers will be empty um some i would assume so i mean i don't know how many people are making money off of full trailers sitting in a parking lot but you have to know what's in those trailers when you park right yes yeah [21:28] **Steve Nordin:** okay you understand my concern if you have something come up are our facilities able to deal with any you know things that might come up absolutely yeah no yeah though i would assume that they would that would assume they'd be empty and still locked just for you know safety concerns you deal with propane trucks no gas trucks i believe so it's mostly freight pardon me freight trailers freight trailers okay thanks any other comments do i have a motion to approve the conditional use period i'll make a motion to approve the conditional use all second any other discussion [21:53] **Steve Nordin:** and that that is with the condition of anything that's not paved remain grass right right thank you for mentioning that it's good to see it any other discussion all in favor aye opposed motion series okay thank you that's all that was on the meeting docket right thank you okay so next item would be a discussion of concept plan for winchell subdivision 525-100130 so um we did discuss this a little bit [22:41] **Steve Nordin:** at the finance committee meeting and i think we have talked you into looking at maybe coming off of highway 20 for the um the white right away the street um the only other thing i want to say is that if not i guess i am sticking with our ordinance as proposed and that would be to pave i would i i would suggest to the city council myself that i would have them pave but not curb and gutter from are you looking for this one yes here it is no this one might be a separate one from mancingway up to the two proposed new structures but we also holler at me if i say anything wrong so far okay said everything wrong as far as you're concerned um but you are um we asked you to maybe look at coming across from 20 on that uh what are we calling that right drive currently yeah current private from highway 20 yep which should shorten up your uh [24:12] **Jake Winchell:** our ask here is that you know we've been told that we need to pave this road so that private drive is is paved um coming off the highway 20 up into that second house and then we would have to according to the code currently we'd have to pay a short section of what's we call fifth street and it's not recognized as a road but then all the way up to where the hole is the cul-de-sac which is cost prohibitive so um we we are on board putting in a gravel road with a gravel cul-de-sac making it accessible to anybody who needs to get up there emergency vehicles but it we cannot pay but that road's been there for ever city uses it daily numerous times per day so that's our ask is that we don't have to pay that we're looking to put two houses back there um so minimal traffic coming out our preference is to take fifth street which would be back down by gemini back behind uh darien come out that way that bear preference it is a private drive so we'd have to talk to the neighbors who own that private drive to come up that direction oh one other thing i want to say and it sounds like redundant but there's another project in the city that's looking to see what we decide on this and they're gonna come to us with guns ablaze and saying you did it for them we want it that's already in place so we got to be very very careful what we do here very careful to me that road currently exists and the gravel road that we're going to put in leading back to the homes with the cul-de-sac we the engineer has a storm water retention plan for all that there's going to be a pond so there's a plan for water it's just from where it connects to 5th street down the hill towards an existing home and down to gemini you know we're not planning for a storm water plan there or paving that paving any of it really we're we're okay paving the driveway up near the house but we we thought we could do it right away up the field and down on this street that was our hope and i know that's not what it shows from that code so that's our another question for you guys [27:08] **Matt Montgomery:** it's my understanding that we don't recognize that as a road it was not originally planted so technically what we've always called fifth street and then the field road that leads up to the wellhead those are not technically roads that's correct does that add to this problem it does so regardless of let's not go down to the paving part yet let's just say we have to replat this to consider it a road a city road that's correct if we were to do that i know this is maybe unconventional but if we use that road with our public works to get up to the wellhead and and that field road which which i would call a field road if we were to split cost with paving up to that i i don't want to set a bad precedent for any other developer but this is also a extremely unique circumstance and we take into account we've talked about housing as our probably one of our number one concerns we have residents who are looking to expand housing in our town we're all for that however i'm hesitant because i don't want to go against any ordinances to open a door for other developers to then push that way however i'd like to see if there's a way we could make this work following the rules is that unheard of to say that we were to try to split it up to the cul-de-sac because our vehicles use that road it we re-platt it to make it officially a city road we plow it up until the cul-de-sac they obviously still have to have their driveway like jake said and we would still have that i don't know if you say right away to get up near their house and then use that to get over to the trail to get up to the wellhead but it would be considered a city street up until that point [28:22] **Bill Angerman:** the money has got no ordinances wrote on it if you wanted to pay for the whole thing you could pay for the whole thing um what we're saying is there's no right of way starting at down by where gemini turns in that's the end of the fifth street right away and we have to make a right away going all the way up till it hits the top of the bluff or the bottom of the bluff now who pays for it is another decision ordinance-wise houses have to abut a right-of-way and an improved street and the approved street is blacktop or concrete and uh so the paying of who's going to pay for it you kind of got to look at the cost-benefit ratio of it [29:13] **Matt Montgomery:** um well i feel like we as a city sorry to get in front of you but we as a city might be in a dangerous spot either way because if we pay half for a road for two residents if there's anybody else that jumps in and says hey i've got this land in this area and i'm gonna put two houses there but hey city pay half of it i'll go halsey's with you however the only the only thing to me that seems like there's a sliver is that we use that road our public works that is a road that we use so i don't think we're as dangerous to say it should be a city road that's would be up to a council decision that because that's not uh that's not breaking any ordinances right you know that's a that's a finance thing yeah and tonight is just discussion correct [30:05] **Bill Angerman:** we don't we don't need it this is just to start working the okay so what we're looking at tonight is how do we get this done with the ordinance that are in in place as we speak um the the rules or our ordinances state that any lot has to abut and improve city street on a right-of-way it's a right-of-way in this area is a long ways away and uh so it's it's it's good it's hard and we've talked about this for a long long time and hours worth of staff meetings and and talking with dr carl and jim burkhart and people that and luke it's been a struggle um so i don't know what about the the financial side of it like i said it's the cost benefit of it all it's how long would uh the taxes uh they say it's i don't know if they spend if it was 15 000 per house or whatever it is we get a third of that so we get five um how long would it take to pay for 150 175 000 whatever it is worth a street so it's it's it's that's what the council's got to weigh in when they get that request mm-hmm [31:11] **Matt Montgomery:** i assume there's no plans in the future of making it like a uh development of putting two or three houses off that same road right never that's the size of those lots we wanted big glass so we could kind of have some privacy we want to be in town we go for bike rides all the time we like to be on the edge of town we want to put in a house with potentially a pool and stuff like that down the road along those lines man i like the way you're thinking is is the piece that we can look at the paving it though if the city uses currently a gravel road to get back there and then a dirt road to get up to the well does it can a gravel can a gravel road work there instead of splitting the cost of pavement and we would pay for the gravel up that field road we have a cost for that already we have a quote for it [31:34] **Jake Winchell:** i'm more afraid of that simply because the precedent we would allow for other developers that i understand where you're coming from i wish we could make that happen i'm not comfortable with that because i feel like other developers would immediately step in and say your road requirements for so and so and i don't know if we have anything to yeah field road versus city street uh minimum maintenance gravel all those things it's like is it what wiggle room do we have to try to make it work with the stand within the lines here not a lot [32:41] **Bill Angerman:** it's uh you know our code is pretty clear our code is pretty clear um any home has to abut a public right of way with an improved street improved as concrete or bituminous um there's also a lot of other things that we looked at you know doing flag lots and and things like that but we can't do them either because that's in our code so there was a i don't know how long it was it was a couple hours worth of staff meetings we held with uh with these folks and we knocked a lot of it around we found some more information after the fact which um unfortunately for luke it wasn't in his favor and but you know when as staff we have to abide by the by the uh by the rules and and the rules are now who pays for it that's that will be entirely up to a uh a council that um looks at this and and to be honest with you does it become then a um city project because the maryvale if we're going to pay for it we've got to do it our way right right [33:43] **Steve Nordin:** so what would the cost be if we asked you to pay for i know you're you're basically saying it's a deal breaker but what are we what are we talking [33:55] **Jake Winchell:** you know i don't know we haven't got a quote on statement i do know from other people that put in shorter road than that and i think he did curve and gutter but it was 250 000 dollars much shorter road but i think he did kirby cutter so and and that's just the driveway or the improved road okay then throwing house construction costs so you're saying that it's that's the deal breaker right right we know it's unique you know it's costing a lot of money to get utilities up there we got like i said we got a number for that we're willing to do it on that utility cost but the the road now is just a deal breaker for us can i in in the map that we have on the far piece over here is that where the green home development are going yep yep right on green smith the green smith builders yep right over here ultimately is this whole area open we're thinking for homes residential or but that's city limits right there isn't it no the dark line no city limits goes all the way up does it not yeah because oh really okay i mean i was just trying to think if there was more of development going up there theoretically but this land is dr molnar is correct right yes so it's what he wants to do with it and if he's saying hayes is developing here and winchell's and hansel hansen's can develop right here but this would still this is not in play as of yet that's right let's sell to gemini yep and this is to the north of gemini i mean because if we look to that also being developed and that's going to have an access problem then you guys have a neighborhood and that's not what you're looking for is it yeah i don't want to speak for dr mulliner but i i do know that he has no interest in developing it he's talked to some people who are interested in it and it wouldn't be for development [34:49] **Matt Montgomery:** maybe a silly question but the farmer who works it they have i know that it's dr molnar's land so actually yeah they rent it do you have any keith guess who runs it so what just i mean i'm sometimes taking in the farmer's opinion or if they say if it's their land we will do it until they sell it and if they sell it great and that's okay but you guys knew this was a reach when you put it out here right well we've had lots of conversations with yeah it's obvious that you knew you were pushing the envelope you know five years ago we built the house just around the other side of the bluff and we put in a 400 foot gravel driveway and we split it and that was different i think different administration i think um so we made it work five years ago and i appreciate you trying to find a way to make it work but the city's not gonna go for the whole bill we're not asking we're gonna ask for bill no but they're not going to be able to put a road in for you we're not even asking that there is an existing gravel path history and we have a we have a car we have a bid for somebody who put in a gravel driveway through that field back to where our house is here are you talking out to the west or to the south or what which way are you going on the on the map [36:30] **Steve Nordin:** he's talking about that that's not the orange is not currently a road that's a path now right right that the city uses to service the well correct that's it it's a service yes and jake is saying they've got the quote to make that a gravel road from yeah from where it stands and there's and there's no other avenue for us to approach these houses other than that way correct or go by a wall on your house right what's that you can also take it from 20. yeah from 20 go past they go through the mall that's not yeah you could you could really zigzag it around if you wanted to so you knew it was a reach oh no we didn't know it was a reach in fact last a week ago friday i left city hall here thinking this is going to work we're going to do this i'm sure they're trying everything they can to make it where they ask they work very hard and they you know they they found out some more information and then they said it had to be paid but now they're seeing that it might not be absolutely not not a reach we want to put in a nice home with some land maybe a pool nowhere else in the city of canton falls we can't deny anybody that you know but yeah would you be willing to take a look at that other option before we before we act on anything the option again going out the private drive here away off of 20. [37:16] **Jake Winchell:** absolutely that was you know we've been working on this so long that was one of the plans um the thing is then we have to get an easement through another chunk of property maybe it's on your map there to connect to the private drive because we can't touch fifth street well it's not an easement it would be a well we would need a right-of-way right away yeah okay yeah that's the way our driver going to go it's going to come down the field road then jet west yeah because he couldn't touch 5th street and had to get to the private drive out here and then we'd have to ask existing homeowners which is you know a couple other families if we can use their private drive to get out to highway 20. and but still needs to be paved yeah it's just my guess by looking at this if you went that way it's a shorter road is that i mean yeah we're talking hundreds of thousands if it's half you're saving does that still make it a deal breaker or is it i don't know i've got to see what what payments after whatever but um right you know i that's saying that the existing homeowners would let us use their private drive no we would not we have not talked to them about that and there could be an expense there too so you know to press pause on this for just a second is this area if it's not buildable now when we have people who have come through with plans and they want to be there is it ever going to be buildable or is it just always going to be a field where here well that's small [38:20] **Steve Nordin:** no i'm talking right here if we say we can't do it unless they pay for their own road um and will this ever be developable that's up to them because these this is the house lot yeah i know okay i'm just saying if we say these are the rules if carl could ever sell it which one had the finance no he's talking about your the south side of your lot no i'm talking about theirs like if right here if we turn this down because of our ordinances we would have to wait for somebody to come in and say we're willing to build our own road right that's that's really the that's the what we're hanging on which is what when they built north of evergreen biking when they you know there there was in the plan for that yep they had the access and the developer then has to put in all the roads yep which is the only way you can do it i mean unless we all have buckets of money sitting in our back pocket where we can pay for all these things but i wish i did no okay yeah i was gonna say i left my bucket at home um but yeah so that's why i was you know with that other developments right on the east side there right but even then you know and i've driven up there the only way to otherwise get down to 17 is to go through whatever the burnt out garbage building was and straight back up to where gemini is and extend that road up and then have an east west road going there but that that would be you know what we'd what we'd ask a developer to do who who has money to do that but here that little service road would cost a fortune to to pave and then as you say the driveway is going to cost big bucks to pave and and if it you know that's the problem with living in the city as opposed to if you were out in the country you know our farm's got a gravel road out there but it's in the city and if you're in the city then you get stuck with paved [38:46] **Jake Winchell:** was the fact that that you saw it was an easier access to water and sewer was that one of the reasons that this presents itself right away nope i think it's i think it's the fact that it's in town and there's tucked up against the hill it's private um we want to be in town but we don't want to be in the neighborhood with all kinds of neighbors and i think that spot was picked for the privacy purpose boy i haven't been you guys have been banging this around for a while um okay so would you be willing to look at that other option and then we'll just get all options we'll just table with you now and bring that back and uh that's a great idea i just i guess i don't want to move on the other on the other one on the other option i was going to say go find a developer develop everything east of you and run more roads forward like i said though but then you then you lose yeah yeah privacy is pricey it is yeah yeah and yeah is this i know that this uh drawing with a plan says two houses didn't the plan in the say three one two it's just two there's gonna be other lots that are created by this by this replant but there are existing homeowners or businesses that are have expressed some interest can't say for sure or not so there's going to be two new homeowners back there two new people moving into this area potentially it's not like we're bringing five houses back right right i thought it said that one for each view and then one for leon but no just landowner landowner he loves them all in our house he just wants to buy that next to it got it i'm not trying to i mean the idea of if there were other houses and other people to share the load with uh paving the road but then you you know then you lose your yeah okay so let's let's stay with that see if what you can dig up there and then we'll move on from there figure on that sort of [40:15] **Matt Montgomery:** yeah this is just discussion tonight so just table it yeah yep table it yep i just have one quick point thank you matt yeah just that one quick point i was just saying dr carl and i were out talking with uh and the mayor walked by and i just thought it was kind of interesting i said you know i said john what i don't understand is i said yes we're asking the city for something here we're asking for some give and take here and uh and i said you know much and i know you guys don't like hearing about it but the apartment building i don't know what it's called but the apartment building i said they asked forgive and take and you gave it to him and he said yeah but that's 19 million dollars leon and it just hit home it's like really so the value of what we say as taxpayers is based on the value of our property and i i just i took that as a real slap in the face well you you use that same point to us yeah i did but but that's what i'm saying it's you know it's they're not even paying taxes yet they will someday will pay taxes from day one but it's it's just it just kind of hit me that really so that's what we're boiling at this down to is the the value of the dollar as to the value of who we are as citizens thanks curious how you can kind of bend and twist for something like that but not for something as simple as a driveway excuse me i didn't hear you i was just wondering how you could bend and twist a little bit for the apartments but you get bedded for a single driveway they don't have a gravel driveway no but they have all those other variances that they're getting and all that it's just i'm just curious why how that's acceptable but when we're trying to build two houses we're just getting shot [41:20] **Steve Nordin:** okay so if if we allow that for you guys what are we supposed to tell the next people that walk in because they're waiting outside look at their look at their case then individually so every case individually so each time so we don't have to have ordinances or anything oh you you have an ordinance as a baseline for what your ordinance is your baseline of what you want to accomplish and then everybody else in every instance that you deal with from the city's perspective is not going to match your ordinance i mean that's just everybody's different that way so so use your ordinance as a baseline and that's acceptable because i will say i you you cannot thrive and succeed here without ordinances but use that as your baseline and then everybody else because what we're asking for is one thing what those people are asking for might be something different but how do you make it all work [42:33] **Steve Nordin:** that's right i think we've got it that's your challenge uh honestly steve that's your challenge is is making it all work and and it's like we all have value here um and god bless you because you guys are in the position of a completely not appreciated job but it's like use your ordinance as the baseline figure that what you have to deal with and then know that on the north side of town there's one issue on the south side of town there might be another issue it's like how do we make this all work how do we blend this to make it work because the bottom line is i mean we in a city like this none of us are leaving this town because we love it here but holy smokes the taxes are killing us all right so it's you know what do we do we we do it you know that's your challenge is bringing industry bringing housing and how do you balance that but it all works out the same i mean you've got to bring you've got to do what you can to salvage the tax base you have and then also at the same breath give tiff i get it i've done it before because that will eventually be there to to help underlie all of this that you're dealing with i'm i'm a 100 percent supporter of tiff but that's seven ten twelve years down the road i think it misses seven um but god bless you for that but it's you know you got to make everything else work too okay all right so we'll table this discussion until we get some answers on that other option anything else to come before us tonight if i want to make emotional journey so moved discussion all in favor hi [43:18] **Steve Nordin:** i just have one quick point thank you matt yeah just that one quick point i was just saying dr carl and i were out talking with uh and the mayor walked by and i just thought it was kind of interesting i said you know i said john what i don't understand is i said yes we're asking the city for something here we're asking for some give and take here and uh and i said you know much and i know you guys don't like hearing about it but the apartment building i don't know what it's called but the apartment building i said they asked forgive and take and you gave it to him and he said yeah but that's 19 million dollars leon and it just hit home it's like really so the value of what we say as taxpayers [44:51] **Leon Hansel:** is based on the value of our property and i i just i took that as a real slap in the face well you you use that same point to us yeah i did but but that's what i'm saying it's you know it's they're not even paying taxes yet they will someday will pay taxes from day one but it's it's just it just kind of hit me that really so that's what we're boiling at this down to is the the value of the dollar as to the value of who we are as citizens thanks curious how you can kind of bend and twist for something like that but not for something as simple as a driveway excuse me i didn't hear you i was just wondering how you could bend [46:24] **Unidentified Speaker:** and twist a little bit for the apartments but you get bedded for a single driveway they don't have a gravel driveway no but they have all those other variances that they're getting and all that it's just i'm just curious why how that's acceptable but when we're trying to build two houses we're just getting shot [46:44] **Steve Nordin:** okay so if if we allow that for you guys what are we supposed to tell the next people that walk in because they're waiting outside look at their look at their case then individually so every case individually so each time so we don't have to have ordinances or anything oh you you have an ordinance as a baseline for what your ordinance is your baseline of what you want to accomplish and then everybody else in every instance that you deal with from [47:12] **Unidentified Speaker:** the city's perspective is not going to match your ordinance i mean that's just everybody's different that way so so use your ordinance as a baseline and that's acceptable because i will say i you you cannot thrive and succeed here without ordinances but use that as your baseline and then everybody else because what we're asking for is one thing what those people are asking for might be something different but how do you make it all work that's right i think we've got it that's your challenge uh honestly steve that's your challenge is is making it all work and and it's like we all have value here um and god bless you because you guys are in the position of a completely not appreciated job [47:58] **Leon Hansel:** but it's like use your ordinance as the baseline figure that what you have to deal with and then know that on the north side of town there's one issue on the south side of town there might be another issue it's like how do we make this all work how do we blend this to make it work because the bottom line is i mean we in a city like this none of us are leaving this town because we love it here but holy smokes the taxes are killing us all right so it's you know what do we do we we do it you know that's your challenge is bringing industry bringing housing and how do you balance that but it all works out the same i mean you've got to bring you've got to do what you can to salvage the tax base you have and then also at the same breath give tiff i get it i've done [48:43] **Leon Hansel:** it before because that will eventually be there to to help underlie all of this that you're dealing with i'm i'm a 100 percent supporter of tiff but that's seven ten twelve years down the road i think it misses seven um but god bless you for that but it's you know you got to make everything else work too okay all right so we'll table this discussion until we get some answers on that other option [49:22] **Steve Nordin:** anything else to come before us tonight if i want to make emotional journey so moved discussion all in favor hi [49:48] **Steve Nordin:** you