e e e e e e e e 7 o'clock we will call the town board meeting for October 21st 2024 to order first item on the agenda is the approval Patrick changes soltion additions Lisa well Lisa yeah that one's on tap it it's better now I'll try to yell all right the agenda no changes Mr chair from uh staff all right I have a couple of things I think we're going to switch the Improvement plan for malard ponds and Parkview we're going to just switch those we'll do Parkview first and then because we have a closed session with our attorney I'm going to move the open Time ahead of that because when we go into Clos session I have to have the room emptied out so I want to make sure everybody gets a chance to say what they ought to and once we do that you'll everybody will have to to leave the building uh Bard have anything no changes no those covered the items I wanted to cover I'll move to approve the amended agenda as noted second all in favor say I I I all opposed all right that motion carries next item is approval payment of bills St you sign off I did I move to approve payment of the Bills second motion made in second all in favor say I I I all opposed all right item four is approval of Prior meeting minutes of October 7th does the board have any changes I saw no changes I saw no changes move to approve the uh minutes of the October 7th meeting as is I will second all right motion made in second all favor say I I all right number five is a consent agenda item these are three items that uh has been reviewed we put them under consent so we don't have to bring them up through the meeting is the board okay with them I'm fine with all of them yes just fine looking for a motion I will uh make a motion to approve consent of agenda I'll second that all right motion to made in second and all in favor I I all right moving on item six this is old business this is crown castle additional consent letter um Patrick you just want to give us a quick overview of this well I think it's just expanding for or adding uh cell towers up on top of an existing structure for us and we were going to have questions about whether or not it's engineering if its engineering is appropriate to support more um and if tkda would be on that with us and you had some issues with the some of it well I saw a memal stating Chad Chad you looked at this and read it but you were wanting to forward this off to tkda to have their Engineers look at it under the terms of the lease they have the right to add additional transmitters but those transmitters have me have to be added safely in other words the tower has to be able to to handle them and I read the I tried to read I did read the engineering report all I can say is I don't know I mean you know it's no it's like 90 Pages well it's 90 pages but how do we know what you know I can't say if it's I can't in good faith say it's a safe thing to do it's going to require an engineer to review the r their analysis and determine whether or not the structure can support it so are we looking for for a motion just to move this to tkda and continue it on until I think that's probably best for now yes we try to get it into the to the first meeting in November just for the sake of the vendor you could have proove a contingent on successful do that too yeah let's do it that way then it doesn't have come back to us okay I don't know if there's a timing on this for them or if it's a it's something they're trying to do the have this fall but even you do it contingency with a contingency you're still going to have to come back and and a agree that the contingency has been met so you're still have to formally approve it no matter what all right so we'll be on the timeline of dkda there's pressure for you Larry so we're going to move to uh send it to tkda and then bring it back correct yep okay I'll make that motion second all right all fa say I I I I'll opposed all right have motion carries now we're moving on item seven these are public hearings the first one is a storm water pollution prevention program I need a motion to uh wave the reading noting it's been properly published I'll move to wave the reading as it was properly published second all in favor say I I all opposed and then I need a motion to open up the public hearing I'll move to open the public hearing I will second all say I I I opposed and I believe lar you going to go over this for us yes thank you Mr chair and town Town board um since 2003 the township has been uh um had to receive a permit from the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency for operation of the drainage systems within the township and there's a number of criteria and that that permit has been updated since 20 20 or on 2013 and 20 2021 and so since that time we have accomplishments and requirements we have to do to meet the um the permit and one of them is to hold a public hearing tonight to take testimony from the public if there's comments about the drainage system within the township and there's also I'll go kind of go through a number of things that we need to do as a part of our permit hold the annual meeting U perform public education which we rely on our Township website if anyone is interested in information on our drainage system and uh um has links to other storm water education um we have to have an advisory committee and we use the Town's Utility Commission for that um we have to uh have a storm sewer system map which we we have and we update each year um we have to have a storm water ordinance or discharge ordinance which uh our ordinance 89 outlines those requirements we also have to monitor and enforce uh site um permits uh um construction projects in town um our own infrastructure inspection plan which uh we um go out to the different uh storm sewer system outfalls and ponds and inspect 20% of those each year um street sweeping perform a a robust street sweeping program spring cleanup um clean out uh Pollution Control structures there's a number of structures that are intended to catch debris in sment that we need to clean out each year and then we also need to report to the mpca our uh our year the activities um so some of the projects completed in 2024 or late 2023 in 2024 um repaired catch basins in the town um cleaned out our sediment control structures clean CTS um repaired catch basins with our 2024 Street Improvement projects and also clean out ponds with those projects um and so we have a number of things uh upcoming for 2025 and beyond that are listed in your report I won't go through all them but our 2025 projects will have storm water Improvement items with have some ditch cleaning um some other Pond cleaning and uh the Bell Air Beach storm water Pond that we're working on um and so then uh we also I i' also like to just to generally take this opportunity to um speak to to the public uh at the meeting and both both online to you know everyone can do their part to improve our storm water system um some I I go through this every year a number of items that that we can all do um that live in the township um one is reduce your improv surface area your hard surface area um car maintenance make sure your car is not leaking fluids um wash your car in a lawn or at a commercial Car Wash um so those chemicals don't go down the drains um reduce our chemicals reduce our salt use um maybe even if you have salted your sidewalk you know if it if it's uh if it's dry maybe sweep up that that salt and maybe reuse it for the next event um keep your drains cleaned um don't dump your yard waste into our Wetland areas um sweep up your grass clippings after you mow and pick up after your pets so at this point we uh open it to the public there's comments about our storm water program um we take those comments and we document those and also submit those to the mpca as a part of our permit so I'll turn it back over to the board for okay well before I open up for the public does the board have any questions of Larry um this summer when we had heavy rains me Park flooded is that just kind of glump into one of these where they did had to do some storm drain cleanouts yeah I'm I'm I don't know specifically that but well apparently things were plugged up over there it's been a long time since that particular Park was dealt with but it was clean so that U the storm water flowed evenly and quickly so that would be included maintenance I don't I don't have that specifically but you know any any type of cleaning it's just general in the in our um and then the the 2025 projects as there you know the the pond cleaning to many projects to be determined that's an as needed basis basically yes so we've started to study our 2025 Improvement projects and we'll work with public works to see what um storm water drainage um systems need to be repaired need to be cleaned out and you know we'll come back to you as a part of the feasibility report and the plans um as we learn more about what needs to happen with those 2025 GES okay with all the water this spring did we find any new problem areas I imagine that I don't I don't uh I didn't get a specific report on on specific areas but I don't have anything else one last question on the belir beach storm storm Pond and conveyance Improvement there that's the property that town purchased yes um on the Southshore Boulevard in Belair yes there's two improvements there there's the the parcel that the town owns and then there's the park itself so there's going to be other improvements within the park too um we're willfully short in that area of of treatment and so both that parcel and the park parcel would be used for um improvements for storm our storm water Ramsey County started as part of that reconstruction project down there to do some this is an addition to what yes they have done okay all right well this time of the year especially with leaves coming down this is a this is a part of the grass clipping things these leaves get into the street and then they're down to the gutters and then they're down into our storm so you got to really be aware of that when you're not blowing leaves out on the road so it's running down the now obviously we haven't any rain for a month so that's helped us control that a little bit but that's part of that illicit discharge we try to keep it out of our stormm sewers all that does it goes in and then we have it it slows down the the treatment of those ponds all right if there's no other questions of the board I would look for a motion to open up for public comment I'll move to open the uh public comment portion of the hearing second all in favor say I I opposed all right if there's anybody who wishes to speak to this hot topic of pond water I need I need you to come up to the podium state your name and address for the record Colleen Cowell 2557 blue Bill Circle and we've been there since 2000 and we've never had a pond in on any of our property but now we do when it rains we have a big pond that isn't going down whatever big drain thing they put in so it just sits on our property and I'm just we're just worried about too much water on the side of our property are you familiar with that spot Larry I'm not would love to look at something we should contact Public Works to have a take a look at yeah well they were just there you know did the the grates and stuff for all of the ponds which looks really nice but I had I walk so I every day I saw somebody and I said have you looked at ours yet and they hadn't done anything about it cuz it wasn't on the plans but I just said you know a lot of the the well two or three of the neighbors behind us have put fences up and they have used concrete so I'm thinking that these this big huge um what do they call those Craig help me out BM yeah the drain thing isn't being utilized there's no nothing going beyond that well what we could do is have Dale from public works at least come out take another look because sometimes if somebody does work to an adjoining property and they alter the drainage that will affect water standing on your property so we want to make sure if somebody's not doing something illegal yeah I don't think they're doing it illegal but I'm just thinking that their edge of their their property is probably right where that drain that big pipe was put in is that water dried up now what's that did the water dry up now oh it sure has yeah yeah everywhere other than where the the sprinkler truck put some water in some of the drains what was the address again 2557 blue Bill Circle got it we're right at the end of The Cue SEC this was an exceptionally rainy summer did it happen last year oh yes we've had the we've had the pond there till just it got so dry okay like I said I'm just worried about it progressing to be a problem for us we have you know walk out basement in that area so just checking on that all right we will have Dale from Public Works take a look at it for you okay it sounds good thank you anyone else hearing none going once going twice all right I need a motion to close the public portion of the meeting I'll move to close the public portion of the hearing second all in favor say I I opposed all right uh if there's no more comments or from staff uh this requires what a motion for let me find it here something's going on just got to receive it just a motion to receive the presentation that right there yeah could make that motion I'll second that all right motion made a second all in favor say I I all opposed all right that motion carries all right we're going to jump up tobly Improvement 20233 Park View Court Street improvements again this is a public hearing so I need a motion to wave the reading I'll move to wave the reading that was properly published second motion made second all favor say I I oppos all right lar are you going to go over this one oh I need a motion to open the public I'll move presentation first or no we need it to open the public just the meeting I'll move to open the public hearing second all right all fa say I opposed all right L now you're on right thank you Mr chair and town board I'm looking to try to get the system up it was working right before the meeting Leisa in the back uh can we put up the slide the presentation go get her there you go Larry oh it's not on both of them she's working not yet oh high Tech's great when it works if somebody wants there is one chair up in front here right up in the very front here we go okay thank you Mr chair and town board I have a short presentation on this project um it's the Parkview Court Street improvements project and you see a map there of uh of that that roadway okay all right uh partf Court just a reminder just a short roadway of short KAC 2 miles long in length um on this project uh we did our Reclamation project but uh the the concrete curb and gutter was uh was degraded to such an extent that we had to replace all the concrete curbing gutter on this project which uh required you know some additional improvements to make that fit in and improve the drainage here's some photos of that area you can see a picture of the curbing gutter here in the corner the asphalt was quite thin as well and then there are some pictures of the street um I got some construction photos uh of the of the work including the Milling of the of uh the reclaiming of the roadway and grinding that binus and mixing it with the the underlying aggregate to provide a new base for the road um you can see some of the paving pictures there um new kbon gutter I got a photograph of that and then to get the ti and we had to do um some curb or some s some driveway work to make that fit right and improve that drainage in there so here's a couple of photographs of uh the final product the new roadway um and I just wanted to take this opportunity for those that are in Parkview Court to look at the next steps and so um the contractor has completed the project sub stantially completed the project but we know there's some might be some cleanup out there or um P we call it punch list work if there's something on the list that needs to be addressed if there's a irrigation issue or a um a restoration issue um driveway issue we we like to um take care of that we put it on a list and um um you know address it and then if you do have items that you see on your yards in perfu court um please call project inspector Sarah you might have seen her out on the job and her number is if you don't already have it 65144 11119 and she can look at your issue and uh work with the contractor to add address it um so to protect these streets we've invested quite a a bit of money on these streets and so to protect that um we will be doing a chip seal in about 3 years 2 to three years um that that's seals off the new binus we we can't do it right away but with within 2 to 3 years we'll put a chip seal down and seal off that road and it helps protect that that um roadway to to last longer so I want to take this opportunity to mention that to you so you're not surprised that in three years what they just did the street why are they out here again um but we do that to uh protect the roadway and we'll also do it again probably at at year eight or year 10 um we'll look at it and probably do another chip seal at that point all right so we'll get in into some of the the finances but but I first wanted to talk about the process for this project um in accordance with a state statute we need to follow a very specific process in order to uh um assess for these improvements including the feasibility study um the public hearing that was held um we do a number of other meetings in between and then um tonight we have the assessment hearing and the final step would be to adopt that assessment amount so getting into the project cost for the Construction contract for the the contractor we're projecting and our we've got good numbers now the project is substantially complete uh 410,000 for the construction work um we have other expense expenses on the project including engineering inspection survey staking administrative costs interest costs um appraisal costs soil borings and other miscellaneous items um so assessments are proposed to be assessed to the benefiting properties and we follow the town's assessment policy for that and we assess each lot um equally one one unit each and if you're on a corner lot each uh unit on the for each improve improved side of that lot is assessed a half a unit so if uh if you're on a corner lot and you have two sides improved you have half on one road and half on the other to equal one um historically the town has assessed all the cost for these types of projects um but we um as the costs of improvements have have escalated over the past 20 years it we can we can't assess that amount we can't assess that full amount we have to assess what is uh um the benefit received so the statute is clear that we can only assess up to the amount that is benefiting the property meaning the the value your property before the project is improved and and the value is increased by uh x amount and so that's the the amount that we can't uh um exceed per statute um we check that amount by uh doing appraisals um on these types of projects and in this case uh um benefit I didn't update my Slide the benefit for this project was uh $111,000 per unit so this the this these are the properties on the uh um that are to be assessed for this project the assessment map it kind of shows each parcel and in in this case all Parcels are assessed to one unit each okay this slide has it correct so the overall project cost now including the construction costs and all the indirect costs or administrative costs U 5444 um of those costs some of those costs are um storm water costs or water main costs that aren't part of the assessible amount but the assessible amount for the project is $445 ,000 we have 20 assessible units on this project and the assessment rate we're um proposing or recommending to the board is $111,000 and so uh with uh the assessments that amount 11,000 time 20 units is $220,000 of the total amount it would be assessed um the assessment term um is 10 years meaning if you do not pay off or pay that assessment um it goes on your taxes for a period of 10 years and the interest rate in this case is 6% so I have a little schedule here of what that would look like um on your taxes if uh you allow all of it to go on your taxes um the the principle is equal each year each of the 10 years it's 11 or 1,100 and then the interest rate or the interest amount reduces over the years as you pay off principal if that makes any sense so the first year you're paying a little more and then it goes down from there that first year interest includes interest from the date of this hearing to the end of the year plus all of next year so that's why that first year has a little more interest than the other years and I can bring up this slide again if people have questions so these are all the funding sources for the project in including you know the water fund the storm water fund sanitary fund head AAS um the assessment amount or assessment total and then the rest is picked up by the Township's uh um Levy and uh Township funds um our original cost projection for this project was 69,7 so at this point uh we would uh ask the board to hold the public assessment hearing and adopt a resolution confirming the assessment amount that we've um recommended or a different amount um for this case we need a super majority four fifths votes so in this case with only three board members all three need to vote in favor of that assessment amount and I'd like to turn it over to um our town attorney to to talk through the assessment protocol if you do have want to appeal that assessment you need to do that in writing before the opening correct now you will there will be a public hearing you'll have the right to inform the board what you think of the assessment but if you if you okay I'll talk louder okay you have the right to appeal the assessment however there is a procedure that you have to follow follow and if you don't follow the procedure then your appeal would be denied by the courts what you have to do before the board takes a vote you have to in writing object to the assessment so basically what we need to do what you need to do is you need to provide information about your property at least the property address and simply State I formally object to the assessment don't need to say why just that you formally object to it need to date it and you need to sign it and you have to hand it well hand it to us over here hand it to Patrick gusterson you could hand it to the board but you might as well put it over here but you have to do that before the board actually votes on the assessment this is important now the next step if you do appeal the assessment and the board okay first if you do file your objection and the board still adopts the assessment you then have to appeal that assessment and that H that appeal is a formal it's a formal document formal appeal you have to serve that Appeal on the town town clerk within 30 days of the date the assessment is adopted which means 30 days from today's date you also within that 30 days have to file that appeal with District Court you can't file the appeal with District Court until you first serve the township so this is important everything I'm describing is called jurisdictional which means if you don't follow that procedure then the then your appeal should be denied on the basis of jurisdiction it's nothing to do with whether it's proper or whether it's a valid objection it has to do with Juris with with jurisdiction the courts don't have jurisdiction unless you follow that procedure but so just go over it again if you want to object to your assessment before the board takes a vote you have to file a you have to file a formal written objection simply State I hereby object to the assessment identify your property property address will be satisfactory if you have the illegal description that would be great or the tax identification number that's fine but as long as you have the address we'll accept it and you have to date it you have to sign it and that has to be delivered to the T to either Patrick or to the board before the board takes that vote okay does anyone have a question about the procedure at all and I'll get this moving around the room uh before we start discussing it here right so and if this if I sound heavy-handed I'm I apologize but this is prec this is jurisdictional it has to be followed this way the statute says so yes oh I will have to tell you historically no one's actually okay no no I want to put this right because I don't want to I do not want to um pour cold water over any objection but the objections that have been filed in the past in the township no one's actually ever appealed their assessment so they've taken the first step but they never taken the Second Step well maybe I can help you out here Chad I what'll happen is you're going to have to go out and pay for your own appraisal because usually you feel that our appraisal doesn't justify the 11,000 so now you got to get your own appraisal and usually you don't go to court without an attorney so you have appraisal cost and attorney costs now if you take those costs off the 11 even if you get it knocked down $2,000 you may spend that in expenses that's usually why no one pursues it because there is a there's an extra cost for you to fight it so if you can prove that it's 11 ,000 is too much in court but then it's also going to cost you that so ethically I can't tell you not to do it because I represent the town to be a conflict of interest but what uh the board chair just described is pretty accurate it's expensive but that's also why we go out and find a very valid appraisal company to to appraise all these properties and they do it as a blanket but just so we make sure that we're not exceeding the value of what that that job is so we try to do our due diligence on this to keep it and within rain one other point the town is one of the few municipalities that actually does do appraisals there's no statute or requirement that you actually go out and have the properties appraised before the assessment is adopted it's just good practice and that's the town has followed that for every assessment all right um does the board have any questions of Larry before I open up for the public you know we've sat through this project for a number of uh meetings already and in our work committee meetings I I have no questions I have not uh just maybe one Larry how did we do on the bidding compared to what the the what you folks had for a price I know we had some favorable bidding but um overall the project cost came down about 100,000 okay from when we studied it and it that's not always the case on these we we got some good bits all right if the board has no other questions of staff I look for a motion to open it up for a public comment share one other point by the way if you have already filed an objection you don't need to file it again because the the law is you file the objection either before the meeting or at the meeting so if you've already done it once don't need to do it again okay I'm going to pass around a signup sheet that um at the top says I object to the assessment for improvement 2023-the datee name address and signature uh lines are provided for you just pass it around the room and if this applies to you have at it yeah this is just for Park you so I know Mard Pond is on this all right I need a motion to open up for public comment I'll move to open the hearing up for public comment second motion made second all in favor say I I all opposed all right if you're here for the Park View one you have to go to the podium state your name and address if you have any questions of Larry or staff or yep come on up I'm uh David Becker from 2593 Park Court uh I wasn't here from most of the summer so I didn't see the bad spots and when I drove in the place looked beautiful however uh we had our internet on vacation hold and on the trip back two days my wife called C link and told me to put it back in service we got home and it was not in service so back to getting trying to get hold the Sentry Link again which I'm sure a lot of people know the same problem uh however the guy finally came out the technician trying to see why we didn't have internet he was out there quite a while back and forth back and forth I finally went out and said what's the problem he says we got power over here where it's supposed to be we don't have power house so I said what are you going to do and he said well I'll have to report it to Sentry Link So I says well you got the boom truck here I says can you reach the trees with the boom truck and run a wire through the Treetops to get to my connection which he did and uh it works so I called the townhouse and I talked to three people there or I didn't talk to him but I was passed along the last guy said I should talk to Sarah after a number of phone calls I got a hold of Sarah and she said that I thought she was going to be here tonight but she said that she'd get a hold of the contractor and have him get a hold of Sentry Link and they would have to work it out so from my standpoint the project isn't done yet I I don't have you know the internet under the ground or wherever it's supposed to be well so that's what I problem when we have you know private contractors that's a little bit out of the scope of our road work but is is your internet connection is it buried is the cable buried normally it was must have been before and that's what the guy said he thought that uh maybe they had cut the cable when they uh you know we're doing doing the street and I said well you better not dig up that street or you'll have a lot of people out there with shotguns cuz it looks pretty nice no so this is one of those items that we call put on that punch list things to be completed we weren't in town through the summer construction so if it would have happened then we could have reported it then right is it just your home or is it just a home my home I don't think anybody your service line okay yeah um we'll add it to our list of items on the project and we'll get it looked at well it sounds like I push my assessment back until I've got it complete um they have a we have a time frame we need to certify to get to the county um to get on the taxes for next year so we don't have a the luxury of uh of delaying the adoption at this point because we need to provide that to the county to uh get taxes I just have to pay for something that I haven't got well the procedure is statutory and and as Larry just stated once it's adopted then it has to be filed with the county plus it also starts the the time frame in which you can pay the assessment without any being incurring any interest this is all statutory and there's um once the hearing is held that clock starts running but it does sound like you have a problem from your house to the actual connection at the road it's not probably going to be under the road yes that's where it's at because you got power at the connection but no power at the house I know Sentry Leake is tough to deal with uh I would think they would at least come out and drop a cable on the ground and and find time to bury later to at least get you up and running I would think they do it now before it freezes well again that'll be your battle with centy link Sentry Link is also running fiber optics out that direction so they may be there may be some delay only from the standpoint that they're trying to push their fiber optics uh in fact one of the uh uh consent toen items was to put in fiber optic approval for like I say I got no problem with I just don't pay before I get my money worth cuz it's a lot of money okay thank you for your time thank you David hello I'm Kathleen odard 2568 Parkview Court and I just want to get get some clarification please um in the meeting that you held on January 11th and you mentioned the um overall Street cost of 659 th000 there was also an overall accessible cost of 64200 in that document and the preliminary unit assessment was 11,000 then being the fact that the project came in overall at almost you know close to $200,000 difference I'm wondering why our assessment is the same um versus um the overall project going down by by such an amount because in essence then we're paying for close to 50% of the project and I believe the legal requirement is at least 20% has to be covered by assessments but that's a huge difference 20 to 50 to take that yeah um so yes uh you're correct there was a there was some savings from the initial study um and that that assessment amount hasn't changed we're not proposing that change and really we we are coming back to the statute that that talks about assessing the benefit of the project and so that the town's assessment policy is um is really to capture the entire b as much benefit as we can because historically the town has um before the costs have risen they were assessing 100% of those costs and so um historically we've been ranging based on that benefit amount um ranging between um 40 and 70% on projects depending on how they come in for bids um so we just have we we got a good good bid in this case and um you know that's that's where that amount doesn't change because we're we're we're assessing to that benefit not necessarily the cost so really they're not tied in they're not tied unless the board would choose to want to reduce your assessment amount because of the savings that um we are seeing that's up to the board but um we're recommending in accordance with the assessment policy to assess the the amount of benefits and so just so I I I understand the 11,000 we're paying because it's assumed that we will see a benefit of 11,000 on our property value but then our taxes will also go up as a result of that so really we're being double dipped right yeah actually the constitutional principle is that you cannot be assessed for more than the benefit you receive whether you're taxed for real estate tax purposes higher is not is is not an issue the issue is did you receive a benefit in terms of increase value that equals or exceeds the amount of the assessment that's the Constitutional test okay so that's the that's the test we're following okay and I make a comment uh just in the last two weeks the Ramsey County Assessor has been coming around and he wants everybody to know that uh the tax assessments or your tax levy is based on market value so if our assessor says that it's an increased market value whether it's equal for every house it's different but that's the where the tax thing comes in you're paying based on market value okay thank you but I understand your point yes believe me well lar explain to me the difference the 200 I thought I asked you you said it was 100 so what's where was the other yeah I can go back to that um that slide we had a total project cost of five 544000 and our original project estimate was 69,000 it's 110 yeah so there's no additional um uh TKD expense or be with getting that better bid no okay all right anybody else from the Park View side no okay uh Mr chair members of the board uh my name is rol Parsons I live at 2576 Parkview Court uh first of all I think most of my neighbors would agree with me that um you guys just did an outstanding job on this project we're very very pleased with the final result and in terms of executing what you said you were going to do it's just top-notch uh I just have a question I'm hoping you can help me with to understand a little bit on paying the assessment over 10 years I believe I understood the letter to say that we either had the option of paying the full amount immediately within 30 days or we would be paying it over 10 years and no opportunity to pay it off Midstream is that essentially correct no no you can pay it off Midstream if you want we can okay that was that I think was misstated in your letter then uh you basically have a a couple options right away uh you can pay it off within 30 days uh with no interest so you could pay off the full 11,000 no interest uh if you don't have $1,000 laying around but let's just say you have $5,000 you can pay it down you could pay us the 5,000 we'd only assess uh 6,000 and put it onto the taxes then any year uh thereafter you can pay off the balance to the county you no longer have an option you know if you pay let's just say two years worth and in 2026 you got some extra cash you can't pay a partial at that point you do have to pay the full thing pay the full amount but not a part the county okay and uh so once it starts going on your taxes we can no longer collect that the county has to okay and uh but at least within that 30 days you have the option of paying the full thing or uh part of it okay but to say it back 5 years from now I could pay off the remainder at one time correct as would be the case if I sold the property any correct okay thank you in fact if you sell the property more than likely for whoever is buying the property to get a loan the bank's going to make you right we understand you can negotiate it but chances are the bank will make get be get paid off so that they're first in line if uh default okay great thank you right anyone else must be a lot of melard pond people here Mr chair I has everybody had a chance to sign on this it's been around the room for her Park View okay all right all right hearing no other comments I would look for a motion to close the public portion of the hearing I'll move to close the public portion of this hearing second I'll fa say I I I opposed all right does the board have anything else talk ask Larry what's the board's pleasure well based on the uh Assessor's benefit um the assessment that is noted I think is what's going to be assessed in my opinion well we need a so I move to formal motion I make move formal motion to accept the assessment amount of $111,000 for project uh 2023-24 viiew Court Street Improvement project I'll second that all right Mo M second all favor say I I I I'll opposed all right thank you now we're going to go on to u m ponds again I need a motion to wave the reading I'll move to wave the reading that it was properly published second I'll faor say I I I opposed then I need a motion to open up the public hearing I'll move to open the public portion of the hearing second all favor say I I I all right Larry right thank you Mr Mr chair and town board um this maler Pond area Street Improvement project is is uh um in a similar area located off of Portland Avenue um includes the streets you see on your screen on the areial there um includes these these street names and it was a total of 2.6 mile project so a much larger project um for construction and then this was was a a Reclamation project um the curb and gutter um was repaired in areas and spot areas and improved for drainage um you can see some of the pictures here of the street condition some of the C curb damage and the bituminous core had some deterioration if you can see it um so um a Reclamation was uh was performed here's some construction photos we did add some storm water structures out there to improve the drainage I know we had some um larger lengths of curb than we normally see on these types of projects that we needed to um inst St to promote better drainage in the area um so you can see some of those stretches here in the construction photos um this Pro this picture is uh where we're working at a driveway but matching into an existing curb so it's it's somewhat of a mixture of uh of existing curb and new curb they in this case did the the Reclamation they kept the streets paved for most of the project and did the Reclamation after they um completed the curb work and so and we also the contractor did a good job of kind of dividing the project in half and and the West half was performed first and then they moved to the eastern half so everyone wasn't Disturbed all summer um here's some photos of the Reclamation process similar to uh um the last um project um the the Reclamation process again grinds that pinus mixes it into the existing gravel to provide a new base for the roadway some excess is removed um this is showing where before they remove the exess so um they they pave obviously and then here's some photos of the final work um again the the the project uh seemed to go pretty well um there are some additional cleanup items like the last project some punchless work I know this uh this project uh went uh a a little longer cuz it was a larger project so it finished uh a bit after the Park View project but um if you do have concerns or um for your yard or um your driveway or the curb um again I'll give uh Sarah's number Sarah kind of managed both these projects she did get some help from another inspector on this project for coverage but Sarah's number 651 4411 198 if you do have some concerns please give her a call again um we're looking to cap these streets and protect them so down the road two or 3 years we'll be doing performing a chip seal in this neighborhood to seal off that surface um this slide is exactly the same as the last project so we do the do our process our due diligence in accordance with statute and I didn't mention that the the red items our staff items the blue is public engagement um with uh the residents and then the the green is Town board steps that they need to they need to to do to make this project move forward so on this project uh we're projecting a total cost of um and we got good good numbers now um with everything done but there's always some residual but U we're projecting $3.1 million for the project um most of that of course construction we have the same kind of um engineering inspection staking surveying um items Administration interest costs um soil borings televising and delineations and appraisal and so again this this slide is is similar um all benefiting properties on the project are proposed to be assessed um each each uh lot is assessed one unit Each corner Lots again at half unit for each improved side we do have some units in here that are on those Corners with Portland Avenue and they are assessed to half a unit um we do have some subdividable property on this project that is assessed uh um um multiple units and then we have a Township parcel on this project that is assess three units oh here's the map showing that here's the township parcel here's a couple of lots that are subdividable and then we have some Corner Lots up by Portland that assess the half unit in accordance with the the township policy so on this project the final costs 3.1 million um of that we have our other funding sources that that um are used to fund the sanitary work the water main work um the storm sewer work um but the assessible amount that um we've determined for this project 2.7 million and when you count up all the units on this project we have 239 units at that $88,000 rate um 1.9 million for the assessment amount and again this is a 10-year assessment in the same interest rate as the previous project here's the um payment schedule for the $88,000 assessment again that's equal principal $800 per um month or per per year and then the interest drops as you pay off the principal and so these are all the funding sources so the township um funds um 76800 um assessments 1.9 million and then you see the the pieces from the water fund the storm sewer fund and the sanitary um Utility Fund to make up the the cost and on this project we had the original project estimate of 4118 million and so we are about a million dollars lower than uh our original estimate so again really good pricing this year um so yeah this the same actions tonight uh hold the assessment hearing and adopt or confirm this assessment amount um tonight and again the super majority is needed for this approval and again I know you heard it already but I need to repeat I want to be fair if you want to object to the assessment you have to file a formal written objection tonight and again all it requires is date name property address and that you are formally objecting as long as you do that you're fine but you have to do that before the bo before the board takes a vote and again if you've already filed a written objection with the township drop it off at at Town Hall you don't need to do it again might do it once this has gone around the room and we've got okay I see yeah and if you do object and the assessment is a adopted you have 30 days from the date of the objection to file an appeal with the first you file it with the town serve the Town Clerk and then within that 30-day period you have to file that appeal with District Court failure to do failure to follow any of those procedures is a jurisdictional defect which would call which would result in your appeal being dismissed so and I would not advise you try to do that yourself there's a lot of good attorneys around here they could handle it help you out help you out with it but if you want to try yourself go right ahead there's nothing to stop you just that the procedure is not it sounds easy but the mechanics aren't all right does the board have any questions of lirry no I do not no questions all right I need a motion to open up the public portion of the I'll I'll move to open the public comment portion of the hearing second favor say I I I okay again if you want to make comment question you got to come up to the podium state your name and address for the record I was going to say wow there you did a good job don't Bob ferland 5913 pintail Lane I'm curious on the chip seal in 3 years is that another accessible event or is that fall under maintenance that that falls under M I meant I meant to mention that that falls under maintenance so that's not a syst okay and the 30-day to pay is that effective at adoption tonight or when does that clock officially the clock starts tonight yeah okay I think that's it thank you just be clear you're talking about that's just the uh tar tar gravel coating yeah the they're they're chips that right yeah EMB bed into the pavement yep okay yeah and that that's kind of a recent change in the last few years uh which found to make the roads last longer correct yes sir hi my name is Mike mcrunels I'm a resident on malard ponds I have a couple questions particularly to Mr lemons I believe here on the uh the benefit to the property how is that is that determined just straight uh from the aggregation of the cost divided by the number of parcels involved no no actually the cost the benefit is strictly independent of the cost it's DEC it's determined by how much the value of the property increase based on the Improvement made I mean you know an improvement could cost $30,000 but only improve the but only benefit the property the of 10,000 because that's the increase in value so it's strictly what the increase in value is as the cost is not a factor at all and again the standard practice is if anyone who appeals it the town will hire an appraiser you will hire an appraiser and they will give testimony as to how much the increase increase in value uh this project uh you know the result of this project the other question I have obviously it looks impressive to see that the original projected cost was 4 million uh and it was the actual cost was a million less3 milon1 24 that seems like a rather you know we're talking 25% how does that happen that the estimates are that far off there's a reason for that the assessment before a project is undertaken and before the board decides to even uh assess a project you you have to have a feasibility study done and you cannot assess for more then that cost attributed cost determined by the feasibility study so for example if if the feasibility study low balled the amount and turn to be turned out let's say FR just do some numbers let's say the feasibility study said they cost only $2 million and the initial pending assess was based on $2 million it turns out the project actually cost $3 million that million dollar difference has to be paid by the township so that's why figures are all as conservative because you that's a ceiling you can't you know you once you you know that ceiling is it and if you go above it that's not that's not okay so when the those estimates are made they're made on the high side to protect the county from or the Township from having to pick up any lar can probably give you more detail on that but that's the basic legal reason why it should be conservative because it does set a ceiling as to how much can be assessed okay and those of us who might sign the the uh uh desire to appeal today on that sheet that's passed around we can choose not to appeal oh sure sure and then there's no there's no cost or anything to that but by signing it it's protecting our rights exactly you're just covering your bases yeah and you don't have to you don't want to okay and I think if there's no followup it just yeah it stops yeah again that 308 per period That's statutory that's strict you've got to file your appeal you have to serve your appeal on the township and then file with district court within that 30-day period right and the order is exactly that serve the serve the township first and then file the appeal yeah Okay and like that usually our Engineers are pretty close a lot of times when the economy is bad guys are bidding high or we don't get a lot of bids so and that keeps the price up uh this year I think guys are looking for work they were hungry so that obviously the bidding reflects that I mean some of our bids were coming in where the engineer had had posted that number so you know guys are out there and they're pretty Savvy on engineering and what they cost so the guys that are coming in under it's just an advantage for the town because that that difference has spread out across the whole Township and it's we started doing that I don't know 10 15 years ago but that was only fair because the price of everything is so expensive now we can't assess you for that amount so we literally made the the the board's made the the mission to keep that assessment 50 or under and then we Bond or borrow to pay that extra and then that gets spread across the rest of the residents because obviously everybody in the town benefits from good roads so y okay thank you very anyone else Ron Hoffman 5904 bayber just a comment uh I don't know if it's true or not but we used to have at our entrances a little area surrounded for bushes and flowers and stuff and what I read in the white bear press is you guys got three people saying we didn't want it so you didn't do it when the rest of us or most of us wanted it why would you change something well we I think we have a representative from the Press I think it was three people who did want them not didn't want them well we never got asked so how would you get the we we just assumed they were going to be replaced usually I think Larry can explain that but all the decisions that were made on this project were done with neighborhood meetings all the plans and stuff were brought to neighborhoods the neighborhood meetings so usually if you were at the meetings you would have known if there was something changing or what we were going to do okay well I would suggest you put out a flare to everybody so they get everybody's vote on it it's we did send out questionnaires for this project and we didn't ask that specific question but that was some of the comments we received so we started thinking about it and then we also heard additional comments during our neighborhood meeting so we're like okay well maybe we should look at this [Music] um okay well if you're going to have a comment I'm going to need you to come up because we're not going to pick it up with the microphones all right anyone else my name's Larry Clark I live at 5924 red P Boulevard and I just got a couple of questions on your U mailup thing you said that uh North Valley was awarded the bid at 2.8 million but that slide you showed showed more and my other question was looks like use this company on other projects uh was North Valley the lowest bid for Mard ponds did you receive any lower bids no we I no we took the lowest bid because when I C at some issues and they said they went with North Valley it wasn't the lowest but it was competitive yes uh we we take competitive bids for both both these projects and by Statute we have to select the lowest responsible bidder and in both these cases um we took we we used the lowest responsible bidder so for for parkie was a Miller Excavating and then um for um Mard Pond it was North Valley so the other low bids so the other biders were lower but they're not responsible folks no they were we we evaluate the low bid and whether they're responsible or not and in this case they would the low bids were responsible and and uh met the statute for awarding okay so you're kind of covering the town Ship by doing that only because too you have to make sure that they're covering all the scope of the work a lot of times contracts will miss something and they're low because they miss something that's why we review a little bit even sure yeah I know it needs to be done but it's just you know timing everything's expensive nowadays you know groceries are up and now you know with the assessment stuff people's living paycheck to paycheck and now they kind to come up with you know eight grand or whatever before Christmas or take it up and pay payments I don't know I just think we could have been I think it could have been planned a little better but that's just my opinion thank you right thanks Larry anyone else let make one comment on the last point just so you understand there is a statute that deals with how municipalities Contra enter into contracts and you have to follow that statutory period the statutory procedure and that's what was done in in this case this statute is quite clear what we're what what the township is supposed to do and how they're supposed to handle contracts and described it exactly what the statute requires and in in both these cases the low bid was the they were responsible biders so the low bids were selected your chance to shine for the cameras I know I'm not us to shine DD petuski 5948 polar be Lane um just another question on the um so if you paid say you pay a small portion of the now before November 22nd or whatever it is and then you want to pay in 5 years do you pay do you pay the remaining balance so you're still getting charged the 6% is that I guess is what I'm saying well you you'd alleviate that interest if you paid it off early but so you'd pay you you'd be you'd cut it off before you would have to pay the full right okay okay and then just a side note but um it looks great but is there any way you could the curbs you know where you put new curbs in is there any way you could put like a painting on the to make it all look new cuz it it's kind of crazy that it looks nice the concrete slabs they fixed it takes away from the look of the new Street my opinion but okay Larry what do you got yeah not a some kind of a covering to make it look new I know we asked we walk but we asked the the worker guys they didn't know but I know it' be hassle but to have such a nice project and then have it look kind of half ass yeah a power wash might something to do that I don't know well it's the whole neighbor I mean it's other than that one section that was everybody was done but just thought I'd ask all right we're going to throw that in front of Public Works see what they think of [Applause] that are you going to ask them no I'll ask no thank you thank you all right anyone else hearing none I'm going to look for a motion to close the public comment portion I'll move to close the public comment portion of the hearing I'll second all in favor say I I I opposed all right what's the board's pleasure unless there's any questions or comments last chance if to um sign the paper right here this anyone else they have to do it now otherwise that's it well Mr chair again you know this project has been analyzed and analyzed and from my perspective we've done our due diligence we did a good project we've got what we feel is the assess benefit I moved to to adopt the resolution and confirm the assessments for improvement 20 2023-24 $8,000 I'll second motion man second all in favor I I I'll opposed all right thank you folks we appreciate it um the board really appreciates you guys comments this is we're very upfront with everything we do and we we like to see this kind of turnout yes doesn't but well that's not fair absolutely you know the we've said in the past these there these are not what we call real sexy projects but they're necessary projects we all like to drive on nice roads and every person lives in the township sooner or later is going to have to deal with the same issues you've dealt with um we're proud of the town we have and we want to keep it in good shape so appreciate your all right come on up you got something question can we get copies of summ this power for our records you would you like we can put it on the website would you like us to put it on the website or no problem all right we can do it so does this automatically get add our tax 30 days come come November we'll send it into the county and then the county will just put it start putting it on uh with next year's taxes all right folks we still an agenda I got to work on here we're going to move on to item 8A this is a motion from Ramsey County Ro back where are we going [Music] here nobody cares about County Road nobody what I do well it's not there Jay it's the other a guy that works in a m Pond area and every time I see him walk I walk every day I see him all the time so he's my son now he keeps asking to come for dinner oh my wow what are you it's Thanksgiving try to be as open as possible and get signed off on didn't hear that sorry yeah oh yeah Street good timing no I that's why I said these are not sexy I hate to use that word but they are not sexy projects yeah with everything going on grow my hair out longer so I got something to grab onto pull out thank you for your input yes so you're in uh M as you know they're never easy so yes you will you get a chance to pick it up front or it'll be put on your taxes and you'll pay it over a period of 10 years nice girl uh thank you thank you yeah this amount will be over 10 years so so it's not 8,000 obviously but it's lar down yes have the good Lu that we have that little section which make the first time I've ever of the nice it's turned out so throughout the summer we've been out there just checking out L care companies pretty good they know about it res deal you don't have to you'll pay it with your tax is that schedu St in 202 you pay $800 those years are I notice that when we forgot to change them yeah so this is this first year be 2026 you no it'll be 202 first year payment youan you're no you're only going to pay 1,400 the first year and then the 600 so if you're going to pay just 800 off the 600 is not going to be the total interest sa 6% of 800 you have a morgage yeah yeah then it'll just be included in your mortgage over the full the interest has broken down over the 10 years so that 600 is over the 10 years as you break down you're not going to save 600 just by pay going say the best person sit down with is right there he does this all the time and he can walk you through so if you want to pay off go to the county or mail it to the county and they'll take it off and then they send us the money it's kind of AEP system just call the county they'll let you and I know you guys we' talked about that and that's why we came again we're part of the m the so you can bring that up during the open open time and then if you pay it they should be able to give you a receipt right right yeah right so if you paid it off let's just say right here my God this interest the last three years here would go away enough anything right now and you wait until doesn't live in that area all right we should move on and get know you pay all important Tom 800 and the 600 I was say maybe you could we can finish the meet maybe you can take them out that way i' argue that it's all equally if you don't mind how's that good job thank you some people left church after communion as I'm saying all right let's continue uh we have item 8 a this is the uh Ramsey County designation of Roads uh go ahead yeah and as you and this is I guess I don't know if you call it upgrading but it is discussing uh I think we're just doing this declaration so that they can get appropriate funding for it even though we don't see it right I did read the packet that Riley sent me and basically what it is they're just shifting they're simply shifting Road classifications for the purpose of of budget budgetary issues in the county itself yep and there's a seeking basically they simply want you to agree to you know agree to the to the shifting this is an ongoing State return to County projects that they've been doing returning state aid roads to make them County Roads and then they turn around and want to turn them into Township roads some of them some of them yes yeah but right now this this this does not affect the budget of the township at the moment it's probably funding for the project that's Redevelopment project through the county yeah yeah not us them to ship money in their different statutory funds this also keeps us uh I don't want to say safe but they keep talking about us wanting to contribute to this project does this change our status with this absolutely not okay strictly County all right oh we just want to you just want a formal motion to adop the resol adopt the resolution adop the resolution I'll move to adopt the resolution regarding County state aid Highway designation for County Road J cr81 from Centerville Road CS a59 to i35e will second all right motions made in second all in favor I I opposed all right that concludes our agenda now we have open time so if anybody like to come on up like I said I need name and address for the record Ron Hoffman 5904 Bayberry since my wife doesn't want to talk in public I get to do this um just a question on the garbage I read it again in the Whitebear press we we we St words so we leave for five six months come back the garbage we used to always put on hold and then we not have to pay for it then we come back and bring it back up and everything is that some under contract and can you put that back in because it's an ordinance now right is an ordinance I an had it put into ordinance yeah but the ordinance was adopted based on the contract so they're they're intertwined but we'd have to get it the ordinance does call you know the present billing procedure does follow the ordinance but the ordinance is based on the contract so if the contract changes we we'll change the ordinance too we have to do one first step is to change the contract I mean let's just say the old time we could always put it on hold you guys sign a new contract and their response to me was uh you guys sign a new contract and that that ability to do that is no longer available so you guys change something in your contract keep in mind it's not as we don't dictate the contract it's negotiated but you can say what did and what we we hear you you're not the only one who has made this complaint we are negotiating a new two-year extension with them as we speak okay and we have that introduced into the discussions right now all right I just want to know that that that you're at least it's an option we are we are talking about it yes okay good thanks yep yeah there it starts with our is it the public safety commission that deals Utility Commission so it's on the Utility Commission challenge to make a recommendation recomendation I I used to be in the business world and obviously they probably negotiate said hey if we get get rid of this your rates will be a little bit less yeah well help a lot of people a little bit but your bill just doesn't pay for you your bill also subsidizes our Park D understand I understand all that y I mean our water we pay all year WR even though we don't water you pay your property taxes all year WR you pay your insurance all around it's just when you have something and it's taken away you you like to have it back I got you got it completely and again like I said you're not a lone voice I mean we've we've heard it we are working on it with them sir when you do the contract okay all right hi uh Logan gon uh g n for the record um 12599 Europa Avenue North um uh so I have a are you representing yourself or the white be press I am representing so I just took I just actually had to take a class on ethics and journalism so the first one I am representing both myself and the Press uh with a um comment uh and then secondly is just my own personal preference the first one is um uh I had the pleasure of attending uh Township day uh about a month ago and my niece and nephew were in town from Albert Lee I did not know that polar Lakes Park had that enormous of a playground um they had not had that much fun in a long time so uh the day was really fun I got a hen aatto I was going to send it to you but my sister said no I couldn't cuz my niece was in the photo with her unicorn rainbow face um and uh she didn't want you guys to put on the website so um cooperated because we were afraid we were going to get rained out but turned out to be a good day it turned out fantastic we were only able to be there for the first couple hours um before the concert started so maybe it really you know I don't know if you guys stuck The Landing or not but no I'm kidding uh it's uh it was a really good event um and uh uh my uh the photographer the W for the wiper press was there too uh he also said he got some pretty amazing photos so good job all around well done um before you go a little further they they they like the playground the oh yeah cuz we the park board and the town board put in a lot of effort to make it was an allinclusive for all abilities and and I think it's it showed on Township days that any person adult to a child could use equipment to their abilities I would agree especially I mean I didn't get a chance to use much of the equipment you didn't climb the tower well I was watching my niece and nephew do it and I got kind of scared so more often uh or more to the point I did uh there was the um the oh precautionary instrument section and and there were a lot of little activities and I saw a kid in a wheelchair using them so you know yeah I would agree with that on the ability Spectrum um and then the age thing might be more about me not about them I agree with I would I would yeah I don't know about that um personal comment wise uh um just because indigenous people's day uh just passed and also I'm currently working on a uh cultural story with um the president of the wiper Lake Historical Society Rob Thomas uh who is uh the Dakota people I it has come to my attention um I'm learning a lot more about a portion of our state's history that is pretty ugly um and it ties uh pretty closely to the state seal um and uh I would request that we update our state flag in this building um it's the old one it's ugly first off second yeah I learning more about the history I I get why people are like let's change it and um I don't know we all have opinions on the new design didn't we just we did our administ at the U Administrative Building ours are updated at the administrated building but wonderful but to your point I I guess that's a discussion for Jim Leake oh yeah it's our meeting Hall but it's their bu their building also for but the plot thickens well no it's it's it's aity communication item I think it's it's well taken we can certainly probably I mean I figured like oh it's a flag just change it but no you're right there's got to be a well thank you for changing it at your buildings too um I'm not it's not my fight air quotes um but but yeah learning more about it is like oh no I get it now we should we should change it so all right thank you very much all right I see uh Ralph left he's gone we have a town resident usually comes to the meetings but I think this one went a little too long Tom and Larry you guys can go we got to do close yes now you all have to leave thank you folks appreciate you coming Logan thanks for coming thank you um see how many people objected just five officially five officially between the two okay one no there were no objections on the first one really yeah oh it was all M ponds yeah M Pond the cheaper one no no actually the Pond View Court didn't uh there's no objections on Pond View Court the first one yeah but only on the second five on the second yeah and they never usually follow through so when they find out what what's all involved but they have the right yep absolutely all right well all right thanks you we'll see you motion go in a close session session us I'll make a motion to go into close session I'll second that uh with the reason you have we have to State the reason fire contract litigation potential litigation potential litigation of the fire contract thank you I'll second that all in favor I I what e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e a lot I have grandkids okay thumbs up can we ready all right I need a motion to come out of close session I'll move to come out a close session second all favor say I I I Chad you want to give us a overview of the board discussed the ongoing litigation with the city of Whitebear regarding the fire contract fire service contract all right okay item 12 I need a motion toce a general materi supplements so moved second fa say I I I need a motion to adjourn at 8:52 so moved second all favor I we're adjourned thanks folks I do