You've attended council hearings in person. You've tuned in to our televised proceedings on channel 13. Now you have the chance to listen to us on the radio as we demystify our work and the people who do it. This is not a council hearing. This is hearing the council with your host Josh Gibson. >> Thank you deep voice person with a funky backbeat. Indeed, this is not a council hearing. This is hearing the council. You can't have a government without a council. So, you can't have a government radio station without a council show. This is it. I'm Josh Gibson, director of communications for the council. You may also know me as the council's voice on social media at Council of DC. Uh, and today we are thrilled to be joined by a new guest, a very new guest, a brand new guest, uh, Council Member Donnie Crawford. >> Thank you so much for having me, Josh. I'm really excited to be here. >> No problem. Um, longtime show listeners, um, and bless your hearts if if you're there. Um, uh, know that the first interview we do with each council member, I always call like a getting to know you. >> Um, and the way that generally works is that the council member is known as a public official, but I try to like shine a light behind that to show who they are as a person sort of biographically. But this is like real getting to know you. Um, you know, uh, because you're you're brand new to to a lot of folks. Um, >> we always start these episodes, uh, I'm kind of fascinated with names. Like everyone's name is their first possession on Earth. Um, >> so in the past I've asked Chairman Mendelson about his middle name, Heath. Uh, it was named for a Civil War general. I asked Charles Allen if uh it was true that people that have two first names um as their first and their last name can't be trusted. Um he he disagreed. Um I talked to Janice Lewis George um and found out about the fact that even her own family can't agree how to pronounce her uh her name. >> Okay. >> Um and I and I warned Zachary Parker um that if I ever call him Zachary Taylor, I don't mean it. Um, it's just I'm a historian and I see Zachary and I want to say Taylor and at least so far I've not done it uh with him. >> Good. >> Um, but anyway, so I want to dive in uh quickly to your name. >> Um, first of all, I was uh playing your intro video and I thought I heard a bit of a Donnie Crawford. Now my question is, is that the correct pronunciation? Is that an accent or both? It's probably an accent. I pronounce my name Donnie. >> Okay. >> So, like, yeah, I'm always saying Dawn dish soap and then me. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Yep. And and PE people struggling with that or people >> I get I get a lot and I a lot of people misspell my name. So, D O N I E D O N I D O N Y. Uh, I get a lot of variations of spelling. >> Gotcha. But yes, my name is Donnie. It's spelled D O N I. And I was named after my grandfather, whose name was Donis, and Donnie was his nickname. >> Um, and I did see that in when you had your swearing in ceremony, in your um remarks, you it seemed like there was that that common root in a lot of things. >> Oh, yes. Yes. So, um, my name's Donnie. I'm the first child of I have three siblings. Uh Donis is second, Donald and Don. And so yes, we all have this DO and base in our names. >> Um and also in your remarks, you um dedicated your um swearing in to the memory of your brother. And if that's feel free to whenever you're on the show, you can always say pass. But >> uh if you I didn't know if you wanted to talk a little bit about your brother. >> Uh so I grew up and there were four of us growing up. Um Donald was the third child of my you know parents ch children and I did dedicate when I was sworn in I sw was sworn in on his Bible which I thought was a special way to like have him with me for the day. >> Absolutely. Um, we lost him. I was 11, he was nine, and he passed away of a brain tumor when I was a kid, and that's why he's no longer here, but I still think about him all the time. And even though the Bible was back home um, in Pittsburgh, my family brought it up, they left his Bible here with me in in my office. So, they were like, "You should have a piece of him here in your office." Which was nice. >> Yeah. you know, that's that's a very uh that's powerful to be honest. Really powerful. >> Thanks for asking. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. Um and I'm also impressed you had a Bible. >> I know. I I could be better with uh my Bible because I have like my own Bible, but it's kind of tucked away. Um I haven't read it as much as I used to, like when I was going to church more regularly, but >> it's here now if I need to consult it. Yeah. And and trust me, there there are those days at the council where >> that probably would come in handy. >> Absolutely. >> Um and I was as I was preparing for the interview, I was thinking, "Oh, wow. Is this our first uh council member whose initials are DC, >> like Washington DC?" And I was like, "Nope." Sorry. I once I spent a minute, I was like, "Uh Dave Clark." >> Oh, David Clark. chairman David Clark and also David Katana. >> Oh, duh. Katana. Okay. >> Um, and then it got it just went downhill from there because I'm like, wait a minute, you're not even the first council member Crawford, >> right? >> HR Crawford. So, I wanted to ask uh, is there any relationship with HR? >> No relation that I know of. >> Gotcha. >> Yeah. I don't think so. >> Yeah. And speaking of names, he was HR Crawford. And HR stood for Hazel Reed. >> Wow. >> So that's a cool that's another I'm obsessed with cool names. So >> Yeah. And I mean home rule. Yeah. HR. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. >> Um so you are originally from Pittsburgh. >> Yes. >> So let's do a little bit on Pittsburgh. Um, >> what do you think being from Pit Pittsburgh, what do you bring to the table as someone who came from Pittsburgh originally? >> Uh, Pittsburgh is a very old school um, steel town. We love our football team, which is very similar to here. Uh, Rus Belt City. We are really big on community there. Um, everyone knows each other. the neighborhood that you grow up in. A lot of people don't move. Uh we have a lot of bridges and there's like a running joke that you don't cross the river or take a bridge to go to a different part of town because everyone is so entrenched in where they grew up in the city. Um but I think it made for a really cool hometown just getting to know my neighbors, getting to know uh the various communities. Once I started working for a community development organization there, um, I really made sure that even though I had lived there for a really long time, I made sure to go out and see the other neighborhoods and work with other community organizations across the entire city. Um, that was something I really wanted to be really intentional about when I was entering in the community development space. And I think that's helped me as I've come to DC because obviously when I first got here, I've spent two different parts of my life here. And I'll go into that in a second. But um the second time that I came back to DC, people would tell me, "Make sure that you're visiting W 7 and 8 and you're talking to native Washingtonians." And that's a really core part of what I wanted to bring to the table when I first started working with council is just a variety of spec uh perspectives and making sure that the policy choices that I were was advocating for at the time were informed by people from all walks of life here in DC. And so that's kind of what I learned from working in community development in Pittsburgh and what I brought here in DC too. >> Now, where do you come down on sports teams? >> Are you are you a homer to Pittsburgh? Are you have you adopted all the DC teams or are you still in both? I've definitely after getting to work on RFK last year, I definitely adopted the commanders cuz I that was a really big as you know uh bill that we passed and I really enjoyed working on that every second of it. It was tough but after that I mean I have to support the commanders, right? >> Yeah. >> Before then I do still have love for the Steelers of course. Um and we do pronounce it that way. Steelers. Um, we don't really say it like Steelers, but >> yeah. >> Anyway, it's that's the accent. Um, so those are the two football teams I like. >> Gotcha. And where do you come down on the famous uh Proant Brothers uh sandwich in Pittsburgh? >> So, unfortunately, I do not like French fries on my sandwiches. >> Interesting. >> I do not like soggy fries. I like crispy French fries. And the draw of Permani Brothers is they put fries on their sandwiches. So, I have tried various Permani Brother sandwiches. I've tried a bunch and I just I don't love it. And I feel like I'm going against my hometown by saying that, but >> And that was And that was how you were sent away in exile >> to Washington DC, >> which is the next chapter of of Tell us about how you got uh from there to here. >> Yes. Now that we know it's sandwich based exile. >> I know. Exile. That's funny. Um, I first came to DC in 2013. I was finishing up my last semester of grad school. um we had a DC semester and I was in the international affairs tract and so I really loved the city and I wanted to spend more time here but the place where I was interning didn't have enough money to hire me on permanently and I didn't have a ton of job experience because fun fact I worked for Barnes & Noble um most of undergrad and grad school but that was all that was on my resume. I didn't have like a ton of internships or jobs outside of that. So when I was applying for DC jobs at the time, I remember I applied for over 80 jobs, didn't get one interview, and at that point I had student loans. And so I went back home to get more job experience. And that's where I worked for the community development organization that I worked for. And then I came back to DC January 2019. And now I've been living here since then. And that's when I first came here to I mean the second time sorry that I came here I was working for a think tank DC fiscal policy institute and that is how I got to meet all the council members. I was advocating on a variety of issues but mostly affordable housing and what we called inclusive economy and then medical cannabis. So it was like a hodgepodge of issues but it got me in front of all the council. I testified on a lot of bills. I worked with council members and their staff to um increase different programs in the budget. I wrote budget toolkits. And so um that's what really set me up for coming to work for the council a few years after that. >> Um and a quick question just because you mentioned uh college. Uh it looks like you got a bachelor of arts in political science and Hispanic languages and literature. >> Yes. Um, are you a Spanish speaker? >> Yes, but not fluently. One of my regrets from undergrad, I never got to study abroad. So, I never fully immerse myself in the language. Once I got more income, I started traveling more. So, I've probably done maybe eight countries in Latin America at this point. Um, my dream is to like visit all of Latin America. Uh, so I still want to do that, but yeah, I'm not flu fluent in Spanish, but I understand it. I can read it. Um, I used to be able to write it pretty well. So, yeah, I don't have a good kind of mental map of who on the council. Um, I don't know of anyone on the council who's fluent in Spanish, but I don't have a good mental map who uh understands it or can speak a bit. Um, >> that would be kind of kind of You have to have a a >> Spanish language caucus. Uh, >> right. >> So you guys could do uh brown bag lunches or something. Break out the >> That would be cool. >> Break out the espanol. >> Um, so I want to talk about that narrative because uh your your job history because it's real easy to get discouraged in a job hunt. A lot of people are going through that now sadly. >> But the fact that you kind of came to DC >> all excited and I'm sure people in Pittsburgh were like, "Wow, our girl's going to DC. She's going to like make a name for herself." >> Then you had to turn around and come back like for perfectly good reasons, understandable reasons, >> but like what a narrative. And then you come back to DC, >> hit the ground running, >> and now you're a council member. I mean that is like I don't want people to think every job search ends up like that but I mean that's just such a rewarding narrative. >> Um so talk a bit about it. >> I appreciate that. I try to tell people like my honest truth as much as possible because to your very point I feel like people think it's easy or um that their struggles haven't happened to other people. And I just wanted to always be clear that I didn't always have success. Um, there were times people couldn't see that I was I felt I was talented and smart and capable, but because my resume didn't show that I had a lot of job experience, I was never uh called into for an interview after grad school. So, I was actually really sad when I left DC. I was crying on my way going back to Pittsburgh, but I kept telling myself, "One day, one day you'll come back here." um because I knew I wanted to stay here long term and even if I could uh because I've been in rooms with a lot of youth um students and I also said to them also be mindful of like the loans that you take out when you go to school as well. Uh because as I mentioned, part of why I went home is I had reached my deferment and or getting close to the end of my deferment for student loans and I knew I needed a job. I knew I didn't have enough money to like live on my own at the time. So for financial reasons, obviously um I had to go back home, but uh just be mindful. I know sometimes you can't um you don't have a choice when it comes to financing for college, but I do remember my mom was always telling me to make sure you take out scholarships and apply for scholarships. And I didn't spend as much time as I could have um in high school on that. So, I try to give people that heads up. Now, fun fact, I did just get my student loans forgiven from being in the public service program for 10 years. Um so, that was a blessing in January. That's huge. >> Um, but if I had listened to my mom a little bit more in high school, I wouldn't have had as much money in loan debt that I did. So, just wanted to name that. >> And the council, there are a lot of uh, >> yes, >> bounceback stories. There's a lot of I mean that there I'm sure there's a few council members that were like eight students and always had it all together and like but there's actually far more stories of council members that had bad chapters or struggled or no one knew what was going to come of them and because like you they stuck to it >> and lived through those chapters. Not only did they come out the other side, but they have kind of wisdom and like you said, when you're talking to youth, it's it's harder to talk to youth when everything went your way and like, "Oh, well, my story is different than yours." But your story is not different from a lot of a lot of DC youth. So, >> um, so good on you for uh >> for making it here. >> Thank you. >> Um, so you were a council staffer. Mhm. >> I'm a council staffer. >> Um, and I was trying to think of what I knew I was thinking of some pop culture reference of like someone who was like plucked like from obscurity and moved up to a broader stage. And I don't know if you're familiar with the um kids cartoon show Sophia the First. No, >> I I I think it I I think it was briefly popular during exactly the time that my daughter was um >> watching a lot of TV, kids TV. >> Um and I pulled up the theme song because this is what it made me think of. And these are the I don't have the technology to play the theme song. Um >> but the lyrics are I was a girl in the village doing all right. Now I became a princess overnight. Now I got to figure out how to do it right. So much to learn and see. >> Mhm. >> Up in the castle with my new family in a school that's just for royalty. A whole enchanted world is waiting for me. I'm so excited to be Sophia the First. >> Oh, I love that. >> Um, obviously the analogy doesn't hold because you were already working in the castle. You were running the castle. Um, but still just that fact that like one minute >> you're doing this and these people are up here. I mean, I know you work closely with council members and they're just normal people like we are, but still >> there there's still a distinction and the fact that just with the rapidity literally has never happened before. You went from one to the other. We have other plenty of other council staffers who've moved on to the council. The chairman, Charles Allen, um >> blanking on others. Um >> yeah. Um yeah, Christine Henderson. Um so, but anyway, talk about that. Talk about that. Talk about that life change. >> Uh, I don't think it truly hit me until I walked out for my swearing in. I don't know what I was thinking, Josh, but I was like, of course, I invited my family cuz I knew it would be a really special moment, but I didn't expect the chambers to be that packed. And so, I got chills when I walked in and everyone just started clapping. Um I was like, "Oh man, this is when I felt the change, right?" Um before then, I was still, you know, I did the press conference with Chairman Mlesson and I knew I was going to be sworn in, but it wasn't until that moment when I felt the shift. And even, it's kind of been funny. Um I was around a couple of my friends and someone referred to me as council member and we both were like, "Who?" So still like that first week I was still uh trying to adjust a bit but my goal was making sure there was you know seamless continuity and making sure that we had a team in place uh to support residents as we're headed into performance oversight, budget oversight and uh I really just was focused on making sure we were here to serve residents. And I think the biggest change for me thus far has been taking the votes. My very first day, uh the chairman had put forward a measure to sue the mayor for not giving us um all the budget documents that we had requested. And that was the first time I was like, "Oh, okay. So now I have to take a vote on where I stand on this issue." Right? So >> the mayor who attended your swearing in >> who attended my swear >> a couple weeks before >> exactly >> sat in the front row >> and I was like does this really have to be my first meeting but you know um I got through it and then we also had the net zero measure on there right so it's a little bit different um being in the seat being the one to take the votes but I've enjoyed every minute of it for sure. Yeah. I think it must be a little bit like the first time when you get to be an adult and someone refers to you as Mr. or Mrs. >> and you're like, >> "Who is that? >> Who are you talking? Are you talking like my parents?" Like, "Who who are you talking about?" Like, but >> Yeah. Now, when they say council member >> Mhm. >> It's you. >> It's me. Yes. >> Yeah. So, that's that's crazy. Mhm. >> And we've we've talked about this too that the uh the um breakfast meetings that happen before the council meetings um famously there's a very reasonable manageable breakfast but council staffers cuz and you know our workplace is just like everyone else's workplace. People love some free food. >> Yes. >> Um and once the council members eat the breakfast then council staff are allowed to eat whatever is left over and it's always fairly generous. There's always food left over. And so the funniest thing for me was the first time you got to go during the meeting and get yourself some still hot, >> not overcooked, not ice cold. Yes. >> Breakfast food because that's what really separates council members from staffers. >> That is. And it's funny because your listeners may not know this and and viewers, but when we're staffers in the breakfast, we smell the food the whole meeting. So, we sit there from what, like 9 sometimes to 12 when the breakfast goes along. And we we see the food, we see the members eating, we smell the food, but we can't eat until they're done with their meeting. And then that's when we would go in and get the scraps and heat up the scraps in the microwave. So my first breakfast, yes, Josh, I got the hot breakfast. And >> living the dream. >> The dream. >> Living the dream. >> I don't know if you knew knew this, but last year, I think it was last year or maybe it was two years ago, some staffers tried to have like we had a staffer side breakfast. >> Oh yeah, the bagels. >> Yeah, the bagels. Yeah. >> But I think we just stopped. Um, but that was fun for a while. >> Yeah. And just so people don't get carried away, we're talking scrambled eggs, hash brown, bacon, sausage, and waffles. This isn't some extravagant like barre that the council members are eating. And we are grateful for the leftovers. Um, >> but yeah, >> sometime you'll have to tell me what hot eggs taste like. >> I will. >> That that'll be for the next show. Um, so tell me, you know, I I think you've discussed in public a number of times the process how you got to be uh the winner, >> the winner of the selection process where there were roughly 40 people who self-nominated or were nominated. >> Tell me some quirky details of that process that have not been >> discussed. questions council members surprised you with or people you heard were, you know, little quirky details that have not been out there because I think people have a general sense of what happened. >> Uh, okay. So, former council member McDuffy announced that he was going to resign in mid December. I had asked somewhere around that time for his blessing to start talking to his colleagues um to let them know that I would be interested in replacing him. And what happened after that was it felt like, you know, it went really fast, but I had to start 12 separate conversations with each member and I felt like I was whipping votes for myself instead of a bill this time. And it felt 12 separate job interviews. Some members I met with more than once. Some I had follow-up text conversation or a or a phone call or you know whatever. And uh by the end of the process, I know that what the chairman has said is he really wanted a consensus pick. And because of that, uh my name was on most people's short list and I was selected. I don't want to really say what people said to me because I felt like, you know, those conversations are private, but that was the first time for most members that I got to talk with them as a person. You know, I was so used to like either working with their staffs or just saying hello. And it was it was nice because a lot of the conversations were over the holiday break and some people you know I sat down with them and we had coffee and we somebody uh called it policy speed policy dating in a way. >> So just talking about like the issues and and how I approach policy and uh why I would even want the position in the first place, right? because I don't know, I feel like there are people who are sometimes career politicians or like they just really think highly of themselves. And I don't mean that in a bad way, but what I wanted to get across to members is I really care about the work and doing a good job. I love digging into committee reports. I love seeing how a bill goes to a committee print, right? um I didn't want to give that up uh as a staffer and and that's really why I put my name in the hat because I felt like it was just time for me to move from the back of the deis to the front of the deis and it was my conversations overall they were very well received. >> Yeah. And I know the other uh critical factor for the chairman was ability to hit the ground running. >> Yeah. And to a certain extent, because I mean I there are plenty of people who understand the council, but you can't understand the council fully unless you're a staffer. I mean, I I honestly believe that that no matter how often you lobby the council, how many legislative meetings you attend, it's really I was an ANC commissioner. even ANC commissioners, you know, who are immersed in the council's uh work, you still don't get it the way a council staffer gets it. Um, you know, so I feel like that was a um Yeah, that that was I think the strongest decide >> decision-m factor >> I think for the chairman and probably for the colleagues as well. >> Yes, I believe so too. >> So no quirky questions you got asked. No quirky like please tell me you don't put ketchup on your hot dog because if you do it's a no. >> Nothing like that. Nothing like that. That's very funny. Um one I will say how about this? I'll tell you the my favorite question I got from a member. >> Okay. >> I got this question from only one member. Um the person asked me what my relationship is like with their team. And I thought that was a great question because it's it shows that that member really values how his team is treated. Dang, I said his. Sorry. But uh you know, it just shows that you care about how I work with my colleagues and how my colleagues receive me. So, >> so basically how when you were wearing your old hat, you interacted with >> that unnamed council member staff. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Correct. And I I really appreciated that question. >> Right. And I mean, not not that I think council staffers would would uh engage in any character assassination, but you were a known quantity to staffers as well. And if you man treated staff like hell as a staffer >> that which I'm not suggesting you did but that would have gotten back like that would not have been a secret. So you're also a known you're not just a known quantity to council members >> but you're also a known quantity to staffers. >> Yes. >> And that that goes a long way. Mhm. And I always tried to have and I still do with my new colleagues, but great relationships with my colleagues uh where open lines of communication are always in place and you know uh we always at least since I've been here we try to help each other as much as we can too. um as staff and that is something that like I appreciated as a staffer here and then I also have seen that as a member now like there are members who have reached out to make sure I'm fairing okay and that you know the transition is treating me well and all the things so I think it's always good to be a very collegial warm colleague to your colleagues >> true I mean I think among the things I don't think people know about the council is it really is like a little family. I mean, it's it's such a small >> uh I mean, it's a government agency ultimately, but it's by one of the very smallest government agencies, and we all know each other, you know? I mean, it's odd in that it's a little bit divided into offices and and administrative offices, but it's just really a small group of people. >> Yes. Um, so there's not uh not a ton of secrets among council council members, council staff because it is like a small really small organization. >> Yes, I agree. >> Um, okay. A couple last uh fun details and then and then we'll be good. Um, you have a Wikipedia entry now. >> I heard that and I was shocked. Yeah, I mean it's it it it looks like it was mainly taken from your bio and the council website. So it's it's not a lot of uh additional information. You do not have a Groipedia entry. >> So I think that's the sweet spot. >> That's like the Twitter Gro. >> That's like the Yeah. Elon Musk uh >> competitor. So that's kind of the sweet spot. That's where you want to be is to have the Wikipedia, not the Groipedia. >> Okay. Uh, but how I mean I obviously if you've gotten over the weirdness of being a council member, the weirdness of having a Wikipedia entry is just kind of like a afterthought, but that's got to be weird. >> It is weird. Yes. Um, someone, one of my friends text me and I was like, "What?" And then I went on it and I think they at the time I don't think they had my age right, but that's okay. Um, and then the rest of it was mostly bio. Yeah. >> For my bio. Yep. >> Um, so you're a tennis player. >> I am. >> Talk about your tennis game. Talk about >> I like Yeah, I was going to say I like all sports. Um, I started getting back into like adult tennis a few years ago because I felt like postcoid I just wanted to do more and I joined I love Southeast Tennis and Learning Center. Um, that's where I play mostly in the winter and spring. They have, uh, through DPR they offer women's league tennis, so I get to play competitively, which I love. Um, because I have been in the classes where I like do a lot of drills, but I really love practicing what I'm learning in classes through competitive play. Um, so that's what I've been doing and I've been keeping it up for the last few years, but I do want to expand to include golf if I can. I think this year is going to be challenging, but um, one of my friends also plays golf and I want to join her. And over the past few years, like my brothers have gotten back into golf. We had we had at our school like a middle school golf camp and that's what first introduced us to tennis. I mean to golf, sorry. And so my brothers have been hitting consistently for the last I don't even know how long, but for a while I've joined them here and there on the driving range, but I haven't played like nine or 18 holes. And I want to get back into like knowing which club to use and going out there. And I I just think it's really good for my mental health. Uh because the job can be a lot at times. And I find what really helps me stay centered is physical activity through sports. Um, I enjoy music and I also like to read. So those are the things that kind of help me unwind a bit. >> Do you have a sense of other uh tennis players or golfers on the council? >> Oo, >> it occurs to me I have like zero read on that. >> I don't. And I've interviewed all of them. Some of them 10 times. So, anyone I should know. And I don't. >> I don't think I do. But if they listen, I'd be down to play with them. I will say as a staffer, I did play with the committee director for the committee on health, Ona Valkus. >> We went out and we played tennis one morning together and it was a lot of fun. >> Um, so I can do that now with my new colleagues, too, if they like tennis. We're golf. >> Yeah. Yeah. We got to get to the bottom of that one. >> Great. >> Um, last question, then we have a fun round. >> Okay. >> Um, you have a nose ring. Now, other than the chairman's multiple undisclosed body piercings that I'm not permitted to talk about. Um, I'm unaware of a past record of a nose rank from a council member. >> So, talk me talk me through >> Okay. >> the process. Were you like okay the nose ring gets to stay the nose ring has to go it comes for some meetings it doesn't come for other meetings is it just like this is who I am so >> okay >> deal with it but I want I want to hear about this >> so when I was 17 turning 18 I got my nose pierced and I did it as an act of defiance because growing up like I grew up in a religious household we weren't allowed to get like piercings and tattoos shoes and I was like, "No, I want my nose pierced." Okay, so at the time I got a stud, just a diamond stud. And I wore this stud for over 10 years. I didn't switch to a hoop until like three or four years ago, something like it might have been I think it was three or four years ago. And when I was selected to the seat to be appointed to the seat, I will admit Josh, I thought about it. I was like, should I take the hoop out because, you know, it's a bit different. It's a bit edgy. I'm like, should I be more professional looking and like put the stud back in? But I was like, this is me now and I'm fine with having my nose ring in. I don't know how people feel about it, but I kept it in. So, it wasn't something I thought about, but >> my favorite part about that anecdote is when you said, "Should I be more professional and go back to putting the stud in?" That that that was the adjustment. >> It wasn't Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know. And it wasn't like I wanted to remove the the piercing completely by letting it close. Right. >> Right. Um, but I did think the stud was I hate to say it that way, but I did think it was like more professional by just having a small little diamond versus a big hoop. Um, but I like it. So, I kept it. >> I think you made the right call. >> Thank you. >> All right. So, every here in the council interview ends with a fun round. And the fun round in the getting to know you uh interviews, and I've done this with every council member for you're the 99th interview. Um >> Okay. >> Uh I've found in life that if I have you rank a number of your favorite dessert items in order, >> it tells you a lot about a person. I do this at all the dinner parties at our house and I've done it with all the council members. So, um I want you to look at this list. Um I'll read it first. cake, candy, cookies, ice cream, pie. >> And I want you to rank those five um from top to bottom in terms of most favorite to least favorite. >> I think I have it. >> Okay, give it to me. >> Cookies. >> I'll hold it. >> Thank you. Cookies. Cake. Then I would say candy, ice cream, pie. I don't like pie. >> Pie I found through doing this pie and candy are polarizing. >> Okay. >> Um and what I'll do after the show is I'll have to go into my I have a spreadsheet >> of all the council members and where they come down. >> You either love or hate pie. Chairman's a pie man. >> I do know he's a pie man. Yes. So, but he's also like he's such a it's such a chairman thing. It I think either rhubarb pie or strawberry rhubarb pie is his favorite dessert. Um but yeah, but anyway, um I I will let you know who your matches are um in terms of past and present council members. Uh so again, you a caucus with the uh the other cookie cake people. >> I'm curious about that. Yeah, >> council member Dau totally hates cake. very grouchy about cake. Um >> really >> and uh one council member who I will not disclose uh once claimed to have three of them in his car >> that day. >> Three >> three of the categories. >> Oh my god. >> Were in his in his car. So >> was it a special occasion? >> Uh no. >> Okay. >> Just just living the living the life. >> No judgment. But but anyway, it's fascinating both in how people answer, how seriously they think about it, if they nitpick the process, um if they want subcategories, >> but you answered right away. You gave it serious thought and uh >> and yeah, so anyway, um thank you particularly for the ridiculous part at the end, but um congratulations again. Um thank you for taking the time for your first interview. From here on out, they're all you pick the topic, policy oriented, uh, you know, but we always got to be first getting to know you. >> I guess my next one is, uh, the questions like, who I would want to be trapped in the on an island with or something. >> Yeah, we can we can go there. We've we've done the most deadly serious policy discussions on man pieces of legislation. >> Yeah. >> Straight up to conversations about music and pizza and restaurants. So, but that's that's up to you now. >> Okay. >> So, um >> but anyway, thanks again for coming. Um and uh listeners, remember to subscribe to our podcast on Soundcloud or wherever you get your podcasts. Just search under Hearing the Council. Thanks again for joining us, council member and listeners. Tune in next time. We're on DC Radio at 96.3 FM on your on your HD4 FM dial. Sorry, got that wrong. and at dcradio.gov. I'm Josh Gibson. This is not a council hearing. This is hearing the council. Take care. Have a good day. >> Thanks, Josh. >> All right. See you. Bye.