e e e e e [Music] good morning witch and good morning to  all of you thank you for joining us here   at City Hall we'll call this meeting to  order with us today is husam Mii with   the Islamic Society of w to provide our  invocation following that invocation we   will have the Pledge of Allegiance  we invite you to join us for both asalam alaykum this is the Islamic greeting  of peace to you all my name is tesir Kar and   I'm one of the representatives here filling  in with brother husam maldi with the Islamic   Society of wiah it is a pleasure to be  here with you all here today I will be   reciting from uh a chapter from the Holy Quran  in Arabic and then I'll follow it by in English [Music] alhamd [Music] [Music] [Music]   in the name of Allah the most compassionate  most merciful all Praises for Allah Lord of   all the worlds the most compassionate most  merciful Master of the day of judgment   you alone we worship and you alone we ask  for help guide us along the straight path   the path of those you have blessed not  those you are displeased with or those   who are astray a mean I ask Allah the exalted  to make us amongst those he has pleased with   to make this meeting beneficial and make  it easy for us all guide us to do what is   right and ethical for our fellow brothers and  sisters in humanity to grant us patience to   guide us to learn from one another and to live  in peace and Harmony am mean thank you very much States thank you very much Madame  clerk can you please call the first   item approve the minutes of the  regular meeting of August 8th 2024 do we have any changes or corrections I had a minor correction um in the   minutes it should have stated um  trying to find the correct wording uh the word can should have been added  in one of my statements um can I send   that it is in my remarks it was left out and  I saw that there was it needed to be added a can any other changes I see none I move  that we approve the minutes of the regular   meeting for August 8th 2024 second motion  and a second any further discussion I see   none Madame clerk please open the role motion  passes 7 Z Madame clerk please call the next item Andrew crane new navigation for the blank  Community disabled community and General Public well good morning Council this  is uh Andrew crane guiding paw   uh ICT representing the blind community and low  vision Community here in witch I uh was at the   National Convention uh this uh summer and uh  learning about some new uh technology that you   guys need to take advantage of and implement  it in witch um and the first uh technology is   uh to help out businesses and the uh um the  art museums the different museums that are   and wiah this this one right here is a uh  for general public um and and that and we   are trying to get it implemented in Witchita it's  going to be good for everybody and it is a not an   actual uh barcode well the the barcode you can  scan with your phone and download the app and   it'll tell you uh where an actual bus stop is what  restaurants are available in that area this one is   fantastic the Blind and low vision folks use it  they are implementing it in Springfield Missouri   we want it uh implemented here in witch all it  would be awesome to have um and then the other   one is a new bus uh bus app that you guys  can easily and help out the the Blind and   vially impaired so take a look at that um and  I just wanted to bring that up to your guys's   attention um and it's something that uh you  guys can easily work with uh which Transit on   and uh we would love to see it implemented in in  which it's all so thank you and have a great day guys Madam clerk please call the next individual  actually council member hoisel thank you mayor   uh Andrew uh real quick can you name some  other cities I heard you say Springfield   are there any other cities we can look at  that has um is utilizing this technology   yes uh get your steps in here today uh new  uh New York City uh Boston uh Denver Colorado   has it um and I know uh there's several other  cities that are doing it um and implementing   it in their cities to uh help out the disabled  community and the blind Community here in uh   in the in the United States um and that's for  everybody okay and so it would be streets like   uh on Street Post um light post yep and uh it  it's uh the uh the company the uh director and   president CEO is going to be down here in witas um  and I'll be setting up a additional uh meeting um   with those folks and uh they they would really  like to meet you guys too um to try to get it   uh implemented um and and stuff so um and and  that so yeah it is in other cities and it is uh   that a lot of the other cities love it the blind  Community loves it and the general public loves it   all right well we'll take a look at it thank you madam clerk please call the next individual Harold schwi ICT trees Madam mayor  members of the city council manager Robert   Leighton thank you for your service the city  of witto and for this opportunity to address   you my name is Harold schlee I live in deleno at  35 1 North Fern Street I'm here today because I'm   chairperson of the board of ICT trees a nonprofit  organization dedicated to restoring maintaining   and growing which does tree canopy our tree  canopy is our first line of defense against   climate change and the Havoc it will wreak in  our neighborhoods some may think we can afford   the luxury of shade trees in these days of drought  and high budgets tight budgets High budgets they   may even think that tree line streets and shaded  Cool Pass and public spaces are a want rather   than a need white trees over the past decade witch  Daw has removed 50,000 more trees than is planted   and that number does not include the thousands  of more trees lost on private property due to   Urban Development or because they've aged out and  the owner hasn't replanted wit all isn't alone in   losing tree cover and the quantifiable benefits of  the tree canopy according to the US Forest Service   the United States is losing 36 million trees  annually in its urban communities continuing   down this path is a formula for increased numbers  of heat related injuries and deaths air pollution   and respiratory illness surging utility bills and  a declining quality of life absent trees in green   spaces the concentration of buildings and roads in  compact urban areas creates what scientists call   an urban heat island effect common materials  used in urban infrastructure such as concrete   and asphalt absorb sunlight and reflect heat trees  and green spaces reduce the impact of extreme heat   through two primary mechanisms shade and evapo  transpiration shade trees lower the surrounding   temperature by absorbing incoming solar radiation  and reducing reflective heat the process of evapor   transpiration whereby Plants release moisture into  the air creates a cooling effect we know the many   benefits of welcoming shade trees they C sidewalks  and park grounds trees trees absorb carbon and   give us life sustaining sidewalks or give us life  sustaining oxygen trees filter pollution from our   air and and buffer residential neighborhoods  from traffic noise if planted near residences   trees lower utility bills unfortunately no new  trees will be planted by the park Department   this fall to contend with the current drought this  means no New Street trees no new trees or shrubs   in which drw Parks even when dead or dying trees  are removed we understand the need to respond to   the drought emergency and we've been assured that  young trees recently planted By The Park forestry   division will be maintained however we also  recognize the serious need not only to maintain   witch do shrinking tree canopy but to expand it  iy trees understands the need and we will do our   part we will sponsor more of your Urban Tree fests  where residents can have fun and learn the value   of trees we will sponsor tree walks in our Urban  parks to educate homeowners about the beauty and   variety of shade trees and quantifiable benefits  they bring we will sponsor with corporate partners   and Community groups free tree distribution events  in which it do hotest neighborhoods and we will   plant trees Alfred McDonald was the director of  parks of Forestry in 1924 he wrote an article   in city manager magazine 100 years ago that rangs  true today he said shade trees not only add Beauty   in appearance to a city to make a city a more  healthful place in which to live shade trees   are the greatest factor we have in ameliorating  the intense heat of our summer months thank you Madam clerk thank you very much Mr Harold Madam   clerk please call the next item  consent agenda items 1 through 16 are there items to be pulled  for discussion or clarification I have two 3 a and four any other items to be pulled I see none I motion to approve the consent  agenda items without 3 a and four second Motion   in a second any further discussion I  see none Madame clerk please open the RO motion passes 70 on item 3A I would like to know  from staff how much we're spending   this year on the op3 and what  other expenses are expected this year good morning mayor and council members  Gary Jansen Public Works and utilities so   just uh this particular item 3A is wrapping up  one of the last projects in the 2023 program   actually so sometimes these projects get a little  bit complex trying to gather information from the   contractor can take a little bit longer than  we had hoped so this was all part of the budget   from 2023 even this change order still fits  within the 122.8 million budget for Outsource   pavement preservation for last year for 2024  we are currently at expended of just under   $9 million of the total $13 million project uh  budget we have more projects coming that'll be   working through October in particular some of the  more what I call larger more intense projects for   payment Rehabilitation we would expect to expend  the majority of that budget by the end of the year   it's possible that there could be some changes to  some of those contracts but we do not expect to   exceed the overall $13 million budget for 2024 if  I hear correctly in 2023 we spent 12 million 12.8   million $ 122.8 million was the overall budget  and we didn't quite get there but even this change   order and everything we did stayed within that  12.8 million so 2023 12.8 million investment in   outdoor preservation those are streets in 2024 13  million investment in streets what's the projected   for 2025 investment in streets uh I think the  is probably 13 A5 million half to 14 million for 2025 I apologize for not having that number  I had it but it's not in front of me right   now so it looks like we are increasing our  investment in streets every year we are we are so this change order of about $170,000  of an increase is still within the budget   it's still within the budget from the 2023  program correct thank you and can you was   also addressed the CIP also obviously looks at  Street Maintenance in whole for over the next   10 years and there's increases in investment  towards streets as well correct it does in the   uh current 10e CIP there's a total of 18  $145 million total investment for Street Maintenance thank you Gary thank you regarding item number four I would like  to know the information um regarding the   PSN and also the overall crime  picture here in Witchita right now mayor and councel um Captain Aaron  Moses with the witcha police department   the executive officer for Chief Joe Sullivan  Chief is also here for additional questions   regarding the question of the overall crime  picture in WIA uh we'll be posting these   these statistics a little bit later  today but the overall crime picture   is is overall encouraging related to violent  crime for this year year to date homicides are   currently down 20% compared to uh 2023 and down  15% compared to the 5year average overall overall   part one violent crime is down 2% compared to  the fiveyear average up slightly compared to   2023 up 2% compared to 2023 uh the big thing  we're seeing is a large decrease in shootings   fatal shootings are down 41.2% compared to 2023  and down 12.7% compared to the 5year average and   non-fatal shootings are down 31.25% compared to  2023 and down 33.1% compared to the 5year average   so we've seen a significant decrease in fatal and  non-fatal shootings in the city this year related   to project safe neighborhoods this is a a grant  opportunity through the Department of Justice uh   partnering with with witto State University and  the US attorney's office the objective of PSN is   to reduce violent crime and enhanced Public  Safety through a comprehensive approach that   involves law enforcement Community organizations  and other stakeholders PSN employs a datadriven   problemsolving approach and it's used by over  90 different uh us attorney's office districts   in the country so we're not the only one who  use this this strategy um just a history of   the awards of PSN uh in 2021 the witw police  department the city of witw was awarded 76,5   $45 in 2022 $755 n and then what you are uh  reviewing today and we would ask you to approve   is the receipt of the 2023 PSN funds uh which are  $ 79,3 40 the uh complicated thing about PSN is   they are three-year Grant Cycles so this is a 2023  Grant award that you're reviewing in 2024 but the   funding goes through 2026 um and we anticipate  applying for this grant again in for fiscal year   2024 um and we were notified yesterday through the  US attorney's office that they are anticipating an   increase in funding for this uh Grant moving  forward there are key components to PSN and   those are Community engagement data analysis  coordination and prevention and intervention   so that's an overview of PSN and an overview of  the crime picture for which talk currently Chief   anything to add not thank you for that I just  was looking at the financial consideration 30%   of the awarded funds are required to be used for  the reduction of gang violence and that there is   no required match for funding so this grant is  completely Federal money that local money does   not need to match is that correct correct and I  appreciate you bringing that up mayor because we   have historically used that 30% of the funding uh  towards reduction in gang violence in a creative   way we use that to fund our youth citizens  Police Academy we see youth engagement as a great   way to deter uh involvement in gang activity so  some people see that 30% uh targeted towards gang   violence and think enforcement but we actually  think of it through intervention and engagement   on the front end which is where we like to use  those funds additionally we've used these funds   recently to address uh increases in crime in  high-profile areas think nafer Park where we   had some incidents uh we immediately put together  a overtime Pro U an overtime project for that area   to address the crime we saw and we utilized PSN  funds to support that so that there wasn't an   impact to the operating budget of the city thank  you very much council member glassock could we   just have a followup uh email or report of the  statistics that you mentioned at the absolutely   and we'll be posting those on social media later  today as well thank you thank you again for the   preventative measures regarding uh citizens youth  Police Academy um council member glas hook and I   also attended uh some of the graduate uations this  year and I know that the young kiddos that were   participating in the program enjoyed their time  and got to understand uh the complexity of not   just your role but also how they can be part of  the solution in encouraging and leading with their   peers so thank you very much I move to approve  3A and four from the consent agenda second motion   and a second any further discussion I see none  madam clerk please open the role motion passes   70 Madame clerk please call the next item Board  of bids and contracts in witcha Airport Authority   Board of bids and contracts dated August 12 2024  morning mayor city council Josh laber Department   of Finance uh the board of bids and contracts  convened August 12th 2024 for the following items   today for engineering we have the Country Acres  dog park for multicon Incorporated in an amount of $555,500 annual usage of $62,400 th000 for airport we have the airport  parking garage electronic vehicle   infrastructure we're rejecting all bids on  this one exceeding the engineer's estimate we have the airport demolition  of Maintenance building and   removal of bulk fuel storage facility for  Pearson Construction LLC in the amount of $149,500 I'd be happy to try to answer your  questions I recommend your approval questions   for staff beginning with council member Ballard  thank you reor Josh I just have a question on um   I think it's slide four you just had a single  uh bid if you could talk about just the single   bid that'd be great sure so staff received  a single bid on this one it was underneath   the engineers estimate of roughly 2.3  million um so that was promising for us   uh we in our Purchasing Office are constantly  working to educate complete community outreach   to get small businesses to register um I did  go another step and check that this bid list   was under commodity or the the registration that  a vendor will say they can provide of goods and   services it's 91350 which was the construction of  streets major residential including reconstruction   we had 103 vendors notified on that one  um but it's difficult to say why they're   not responding we don't like seeing it we're  continually trying to outreach to encourage that   environment of competition awesome thank you so  much and my last question is on uh slide [Music] seven yes if you could just talk a little bit  about the prices are significantly different   um just talk a little bit about rejecting the  bids and what happens now sure so rejection of   bids typically occurs when the city has  a independent cost estimate before we   go out so we like to see what is going to be  that estimate like in your personal budget if   you're going to buy a car what is that budget  you have the city's budget for this project um   I apologize I don't have it on top of my head it  was roughly 2.3 million when I remember looking   at it um but with that set aside we will get  that estimate go out for bids get the numbers   back the firm fixed pricing and then evaluate in  this specific instance you're seeing an asteris   for corrected total we had a really high number  because we had a vendor on their paper form um   put the unit price as their extended total so  on item 12 where there was the actual purchase   of 5,000 KVA Transformers for the purchase they  had 518,000 times 4 equal from that single line   roughly 2.07 million um so that inflated that  but overall the numbers exceeded what we expected   that cost to be um what we're going to do this  information as we'll work with our requesting   Department to see if we need to take away items  if we need to evaluate items if there's specific   specifications that are causing these numbers  to be ex exceeding um and then hopefully put   it back out shortly awesome thank you so  much good questions Josh One More Time On   Slide number four what was the city's budget for  that again uh hold on let me tell you real quick we had an engineer's estimate of 2319 million thank you Josh I see no further questions  for staff I motion to approve the board of bids   and contracts second motion and a second any  further discussion I see none Madame clerk   please open the role motion passes 70 Madame Clerk  please call the next item petitions for public improvements good morning mayor City Council  Members Paul gunsman Public Works and utilities   for the record this morning I have one revised  petition for your consideration the signature on   the petitions represent 100% of the improvement  district and the petitions are valid per Kansas   statute Pegasus addition located in dist  District 2 on March 5th 2024 the city   council approved sewer Improvement required  for a new residential development developer   has submitted a revised petition with a  revised budget to reflect current market conditions with that it is recommended  that the city council approve the revised   petition and budget adopt the amending  resolution and authorize the necessary   signatures and I will stand for  questions questions for staff   Paul yes this uh specific item is paid for  by special special assessment yes therefore   not the community correct thank you very much  I motion to approve the petitions for public   Improvement second motion and a second any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the role motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call  the next item public hearing and requests for a   modification of a letter of intent for industrial  revenue bonds Wesley Medical Center LLC good   morning mayor and City Council Members I'm Tim  good pasture with the city manager's office of   development services for the record the item  before you today is a request for modification   to the uh industrial revenue Bond letter of intent  in 2018 the city council approved a seven-year   letter of intent to issue industrial revenue bonds  in an amount not to exceed 100 million for a sales   tax exemption only no property tax abatement was  requested this was to encourage Wesley's parent   company healthc Care Corporation of America  to invest in Witchita as opposed to any of a   couple hundred of other facilities throughout the  United States in particular in Texas and Florida   uh as part of the uh negotiation with Wesley we  required that they would issue Bonds in years 2020   2023 and 2025 with benchmarks in each of those  years for capital investment and job creation   by the end of year 2024 which was year four of  the agreement HCA had invested 100 million and   maxed out the letter of intent they came back at  that time and request an increase in the letter of   intent by another $150 million for a total of  $250 million also at that time they requested   an extension of one year of the letter of intent  to December 31 of 2026 all of which was approved   at that time Wesley has now maxed out the $250  million letter of intent and is requesting an   additional $100 million in capacity for the  letter of intent for a total of $350 million   there is no request to extend the letter of intent  Beyond December 31 2026 the estimated value of the   sales tax exemption is $7.5 million irbs are a  mechanism for achieving a sales tax exemption   and or a property tax abatement the city is not  lending any money and bears no risk the company   is required to achieve its own financing and no  taxpayer dollars are at risk Wesley's campus is   at the northeast corner of Central and Hillside uh  in this area running along the bottom from left to   right you can see Central Street uh little left  of middle from top to bottom is Hillside the area   outlined in red represents the campus for Wesley  Medical Center to date Wesley has compl completed   the following projects these are not exhaustive  of all of the projects they've completed just   some of the examples of substantial projects they  have completed the relocation of the Pediatric   Support Services an investment of $26 million  Immediate Care Unit addition an investment of   $12 million Women's Services upgrades for labor  and delivery and waiting areas an investment of   $1 million and a tower renovation which represents  an investment of $13 million projects that are in   process or have been funded include and by funded  that means they have been approved by HCA and   funded by HCA to be completed operating room  Renovations including multiple sub projects an   investment of $69 million new parking facilities  and entrance refresh an investment of $63 million   a new Rehabilitation Hospital an investment of  $54 million and kitchen infrastructure renovation   an investment of $15 million West has committed  to hiring at least 66 new employees as part of   this investment with an average annual salary of  $60,000 a year Wesley is required to issue bonds   and Achieve certain job creation benchmarks at  three predetermined dates the ends of years 2 five   and8 this chart shows the minimum required capital  investment job creation and wages at each of those   benchmarks and the results for the first two of  those benchmarks which we have surpassed in 2020   the company was required to invest a minimum of18  million at that point it had invested almost $41   million it was projected to create a minimum of  five jobs at the time they had actually created   31 jobs and instead of paying the minimum  required $6,000 a year they were paying over   $64,000 a year at the second Benchmark in 2023 the  company was required to have invested a minimum   of $30 million they had at that point invested  over1 175 million and they were required to have   created a minimum of 15 jobs and at that point it  actually created 105 jobs and instead of paying   the requisite $60,000 a year they were paying  approximately $78,000 a year and there is one   more Benchmark yet to be reached therefore it is  staff's recommendation that the city council close   the public hearing adopt the resolution of intent  and authorize the necessary signatures Al babbett   and Morty Steiner with State Tax Services are  here as consultants representing Wesley Medical   Center and can answer any questions specific  to the company and I would be happy to stand   for any questions as well questions for staff  beginning with council member Johnson thank you   mayor thanks Tim for the presentation I feel  like you added that slide in because you knew   the question was coming um but for those who  are new to this even though it's in the slide   can you talk about the city is not giving $100  million towards this just the IRB that is correct   um the irbs are used to achieve again a sales  tax exemption and or a property tax abatement   in this case Wesley is using it for a sales  tax exemption they have achieved their own   financing through HCA uh the city is not involved  in dictating any terms we are not uh lending them   aund million they have their own financing again  the irbs are used just to achieve the sales tax   exemption benefit there's no taxpayer dollars  involved no taxpayer dollars at risk thank you can you please go to slide number 24 I'll keep it at that while I ask this question  um how much in property taxes have been charged   um to Wesley so although this is a sales tax  exemption they're still paying their property   taxes correct there on that slide that shows  their uh entire facility all of that is generating   proper property taxes at 100% of whatever value  the cedri County Appraiser has that appraised at   uh we have not AB baited any of the uh property  tax abatement and then can you go to slide number 26 our handout shows that there was also a  $20 million investment in the emergency room   Renovations correct so that was not in the slide  but it's correct in the Green Sheet it is correct   thank you again we weren't exhaustive  of all of the projects we were just   giving you an idea of some of the  projects that have been completed today we wanted to hear from or I want to hear   from the State Tax Services  Group since they represent Wesley good morning mayor wo and City Council  Members my name is uh Al babit I am the the   president of the consulting firm State Tax  Services LLC and my firm has been working very   closely with Wesley Medical Center as where as  well as its parent company HCA and administering   this incentive and truthfully with we have sincere  gratitude for the uh support and assistance from   the council uh and also uh Tim good pastor with  economic development and Sarah steel Bond Council   to the city we've got a great working relationship  with them they've been tremendous to work with the   tax is associated with this uh incentive um  provide welcome relief especially in these   times where um escalating costs um High interest  rates and so forth this really can be a uh help   the decision-making process that management uh  undertakes in deciding where to allocate Capital   as Tim mentioned HCA has nearly 200 hospitals  in innumerable uh Ambulatory Surgery centers   and and freestanding emergency rooms located all  around the United States and the incentive that's   provided here for Wesley um directly correlates  with man Management's decision to allocate capital   and investment here in Witchita and over the last  six years uh obviously they've invested hundreds   of millions of dollars in improvements um the  numbers that you saw up there really are just   the um what we call the tax base in many cases  it doesn't reflect the full cost of some of the   improvements because um uh new construction labor  is Exempted in in Kansas so that's not something   that we would uh need to um have covered by by  the uh the IRB so those numbers actually are   larger the investment than what's been reflected  and uh we certainly are continuing to invest um   in in the facilities and uh improving access to  and quality of health care for the city residents   and and those in neighboring communities so very  much appreciate the the support and partnership   we have just wanted to say thank you for um the  continued investment as well as U maintenance of   these buildings um they are an asset to our Comm  community and knowing that we were in competition   with places like Texas and Florida for these  Investments um that means that Wesley decided   that uh it was important to continue investing  in Witchita Kansas my question then for you   is um what are other projects that are expected  beyond the scope that is um being asked of right   now in terms of investments into wit iton some  of the projects that have not started yet but   will be commencing in 2025 the largest single  project will be a complete uh overhaul of the   parking facilities um the parking garage um the  current one is um I think been around almost 50   years I believe so that is going to be completely  demolished and replaced with a modern garage with   uh all the upgraded features um and they're  also going to be refreshing um the exterior   access points to the to the hospital as well to  improve those that's that's going to be about a   63 Mill million dollar investment by itself um and  then there's um they're continuing um quite a bit   of work still with operating room improvements um  and investments in new technology as well uh for   some of the robotic surgeries and um you know  other type of upgraded technology um so uh I   would say the main project that we are expecting  now would be the uh probably the parking garage   there's going to be some improvements to the  kitchen facilities and some of that and then   there's always an ongoing investment um the it  can be as high as $20 million a year in what we   call routine capital and these are projects that  maybe don't rise to the level of their Capital   asset management system tracking these large  projects but they're you generally up to $5   million um and they uh engage local contractors  uh Key Construction is one of them um you know   making routine improvements to things like  uh HVAC units um and U you know for patient   comfort and you know just other types of routines  improvements that they make as well and those   aren't reflected in those numbers but they do  amount to anywhere between 15 to20 million a year routinely thank you for budgeting the extra  maintenance that it costs after you build   something you still have to maintain it so  absolutely thank you for being thoughtful   about maintenance certainly uh those are the  questions I have so thank you very much all   right appreciate it we have no further  questions from the bench it is now time   for public comment are there individuals in  the public who would like to speak on this item I see none I will bring it back to the bench this resides in council member Johnson's  District thanks mayor I want to thank Wesley   for their continued investment in our community uh  we not only appreciate that but it provides great   service for those who are in need so thank you  for that um with that I would move that the city   Council close the public hearing adopt the  resolution of intent and authorize the necessary   signatures second motion and a second any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the role motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call the   next item weslink Alfred Angelou  and Rockwell Library renovations good morning I'm Jamie Nicks with Witchita  Public Library um we you city council endorsed   a comprehensive update to our Branch Library  System um in 2017 in 2018 we did a lot of   community engagement which then resulted in um  a lot of plans for our library system and over   the course of a pandemic some of those have  changed um some of our service opportunities   um so Community demographics Library use resource  distribution we looked at alternative service um   delivery models which has resulted in a pilot  book bus that you see across the city um we're   helping to shape the whole Branch remodel system  and we established um specific independent um and   Collective programmatic emphasis at each location  after opening the advanced learning library we   10's expectations for its Library facilities  have definitely changed um the pandemic   further furthering that change we've um had  to adapt how we check in check out books um   the formats that we're supporting um service  adaptations we've begun um to issue passports   in two of our locations tech training is  taking um precedence over everything and   telescopes are large to store just saying  um um with the pandemic to convenience   and social distancing is something that we  have to um integrate and weave into all of   our decisions on the 19th of December um last  year Council adopted a bonding resolution of   $6 m183 th000 for the Westlink library in  addition um there was a separate project   bonding resolution for the Alford May Angelo and  Rockwell libraries in the amount of 3,889 n14   our witcha Public Library Foundation is elevating  its um fundraising efforts to provide over $2   million of marginal margin of Excellence amenities  and capital expenses for the four branches at this   time um our Westlink project budget has come  in higher than we expected in 2018 when um the   budget was initially set um the initial CIP budget  and Architectural Review didn't anticipate the Ste   inflation rates that we've all experienced the  construction and influences of supply and demand   um technology electrical building security and  access upgrades weren't originally accounted for   um and these are really critical for us to be able  to operate a modern Library our par parking lot   improvements are necessary to be able to integrate  drive up service so that changed um how things   are engineered I think um our Rockwell parking  lot has had its number of accidents so it's um   needing to be re re-engineered um additionally  Furnishing for public use spaces has the cost   of that has increased substantially over the last  um number of years and Library specific shelving   um is a a large investment um and lasts for a  long time as we've seen through um the Decades   of our current libraries additionally with um Co  I mean it it's really brought to the Forefront   our need to emphasize reading support at a family  engagement level so that is a small scope increase   from the original um master plan Early Learning  wasn't was identified but family engagement um is   um a strategy our board is really leaning into as  far as um making empirical changes and long-term   changes in Reading success sub consquently we're  seeing that the Alfred Angelo and Rockwell Branch   budgets need to proportionately increase for  these um experiences we had at West link and   going through the design um we've really  taken um the Eraser to a lot of um wants   and wishes and things that were identified um  over time we've selected alternative um Acoustics   Furnishings the way that we're storing things is  changing um the staff workspaces have been um re   designed in order to reduce the budget um we're  making some scaled back changes to the signage and   wayfinding improvements um program spaces are  some program spaces are being postponed for a   later date um alternative funding sources have  been identified for some deferred maintenance   that was identified as we got into um the  Construction and design and our library fund   foundation's fundraising efforts have um helped  in they're increasing to cover some construction   and Technology infrastructure this chart shows the  original arpa budget um from December um 2023 um   it includes the budget ask today and includes the  witcha public library Foundation funding efforts   in total um this doesn't equate to $2 million they  have a number of other projects with capital that   they're working on as well um and this identifies  that for Westlink it's Furniture shelving deferred   maintenance parking Alford it's Furniture fixtures  equipment deferred maintenance access road to the   YMCA and some signage at my Angelo it's Furniture  fixture and Equipment deferred maintenance and   signage and at Rockwell um the budget request  will pay for some parking um improvements   deferred maintenance shelving and Furniture we've  worked with our legal and financial teams um in   in addition there was $220,000 of geof funding  and art and public art dollars were brought over   to the budget as well and so um I'm losing track  sorry the CIP that's um scheduled next week for um   adoption includes an additional 2,270 thou $7,000  in Geo Bond funding for these Branch projects we   also have a memorandum of understanding with the  wicha public library Foundation the recommendation   today is to approve the adjusted project budget  and adopt the amended B Bonding resolutions to   answer than for the presentation um questions  for staff beginning with council member Glasco   you thank you for the presentation and thank you  mayor uh you may have spoken to this a little bit   but just maybe in a little bit more detail if we  were not to approve the increase of the budget   allocation what would be some of the items that  you would have to reduce so Rockwell wouldn't have   its parking lot re-engineered I think we would be  able to afford to resurface a quarter of it um we   would scale back um the size of and the size  increase of the Rockwell branch public meeting   room we would eliminate the drive to the access  road to the YMCA at Alford um but Angelo we would   really scale back the Furnishings um or have to  find alternative funding I think um in discussion   with the foundation as well um they're really  wanting to see the branch Investments that are   being made um just as great as they can be okay  and then in addition um if we were to reallocate   more towards this budget where would it come from  and the current proposed CIP would it be taken   from other future project projects well I believe  that the previously funded budget allocation   is all arpa funds and so they're slated to be  encumbered this next month with the GMP for each   of the design projects this additional funding is  coming from the capital Improvement um budget okay   and then the last question you had said I think it  was slide 37 security Tech and electrical were not   accounted for is that just a law on the process  or we have we historically not I think that there   have been some um operational um just standardized  changes for um City facilities including like   badge access to um be able to enter our buildings  right now we don't have security or video security   systems in our branches beyond the ones that have  been remodeled so that's a carry forward as part   of public Space Management and making sure that  we have um good visibility everywhere okay thank   you for that and then one brief comment to uh the  book bus is one of my favorite things in the city   um and I would love to see especially taking books  to where people are um I think is one of the most   Innovative things the library has done and uh I  would encourage everybody to please go and check   out the book Thank you can you go to slide number  39 yes can you specifically talk about deferred   maintenance in each of these branches um with arpa  dollars um I understand that this is enhancements   to those branches um but should the number one  priority be make sure that we take care of the   Deferred maintenance first and then continue  with enhancements yeah I think in Discovery we   um at Alford Angelo and Rockwell were seeing that  there's some leaking that's happening um I believe that the Deferred maintenance is really relatively   low as far as the budget ask  um um I can pull that up I apologize we discovered some um asbestos at  Westlink that needed to be remediated as we   were opening up some space um at the my Angelo um  there are three different spaces in the building   that are leaking that and I believe at Alfred  there are also two areas that um are leaking   that are going to have some um it needs some  engineering to fix rather than ceiling I'm not   a building expert sorry guys I'm a librarian okay  uh I would like to challenge that we prioritize   the Deferred maintenance first uh the leaking  roof to me seems like a issue that can become   bigger over time um so I would like to see  the prioritization be deferred maintenance   first before we go into enhancing uh council  member glov just one quick question in our   agenda packet too and I think it's on this  slide so the request is that middle item the   budget request that's an additional request to  what's been approved already and so that comes   out to about $ 2,27 th000 an additional request  out of the total project of about 12 million correct with that staff or with my one single  person saying asking for prioritizing deferred   maintenance first how is how would  that go about coun uh city manager   Leon mayor those projects are prioritized  and included in what's recommended so the   Deferred maintenance issues are uh being  addressed as well as the enhancements and   REM model that the that director has  outlined so all of that is covered in this and the new additional $2 million is that  correct actually it's in the arpa dollar council   member Glasco if I remember correctly in the  budget for 2025 for the library there's a   reduction in the expenditures because of the  closure of the wesling branch what is that   reduction in expenditures for 2025 that then's  bumped up again 2026 if I remember correctly   it's $100,000 is it only 100,000 if I remember  correctly okay I'll check that well we've got   a $100,000 item for materials I take that  back I don't remember I want to say might   be I'll look at that did we have a savings no  we've um reallocated staff to over the business   of Westlink is bustling at the temporary location  and customers are choosing to go to other library   locations where we've reassigned staff so at this  point um there really isn't a budget savings I   don't believe when we're reopening um the wesling  library it's scheduled to reopen in January we'll   be working with our existing Staffing levels um  part of the reason of the foundation um purchasing   an automated Material Handling system is to  provide ongoing operational um capacity for the   branch okay I guess this would be a clarification  for finance and so I pulled up the budget on page   251 and maybe I just seen clarification it says  the 2024 revised budget is 8 million2 or for sorry   revised budget for total Library operations is  11,44 th000 in 2025 the proposed budget is 9,843   th000 so that's a pretty significant reduction  in terms of the 2025 proposed budget and then it   hops up again in 2026 to 11, 472,000 looks like  there is about a $2 million reduction you've   opened the door to a very complex issue and we're  gonna Mark's going to talk about it okay thank you good morning council member uh yes sir uh  you've you're touching on a technical issue   that we do in the library budget based on State  Statute there's a state statute that requ requires   us to maintain effort for the library it's called  a maintenance of effort and so in the budget year   which is 20 25 in this case to provide maximum  flexibility to the city council we typically   increase the shrinkage adjustment which you're  noticing there and that is so that the budget for   the library in the budget year does not increase  the maintenance of effort base again we do that   to provide flexibility to the city council because  if we did not do that then the S then the library   budget would base would grow over the statutory  maintenance of effort which in effect locks you   in forever at that higher base now typically what  we'll do and the reason you're seeing it go up and   down is the next year in which 2025 will no longer  be the budget year that $2 million will disappear   we will not have a $2 million shrinkage adjustment  next year for 2025 so okay so while it says in the   2025 proposed budget 9,843 th000 it'll probably  be closer to what the 2024 or 20 let's say 2023   actuals where we're 10,731 th000 there'll actually  be an increase in that uh in fact I would tell   you that the $2 million shrinkage adjustment  that we show this year most likely will be a   quarter million dollars next year rather than two  million so I I don't have the book in front of me   but whatever that base is is probably what the  base increase is by next year do we note that in   the budget document because I don't think I saw  that one we do not uh we we could that would be   nice to just have a note maybe for future years  um because looking at this it looks like we took   a decrease and it was interesting because it  was the only Department that took a decrease   um and so I had questions later on about that so  we're not decreasing the budget for the library   despite this like I say you'll see that in every  every year that we do that in the budget and   you're right it's very confusing and we wish  we didn't have to do it that way but it's to   provide maximum flexibility for the council so  learn something new every day thank you council   member hois thank you mayor um Mark is that um  with that shrinkage is that ever recognized in   revised budgets that come out halfway through the  year Well we we'll revise the 25 budget next year   and that's when the 2 million basically will  probably shrink to about 250,000 okay so when   we get the revised budget it should reflect that  yeah that $2 million number will have absolutely   zero impact on the library okay we do it again  to comply with State Statute okay appreciate it um one more question regarding deferred  maintenance so this in particular particular   only addresses um Westlink Alfred Angelo and  Rockwell so four out of the seven libraries um   the other three libraries are there any deferred  maintenance um needs that we need to be addressing   at this point um the Walters library is an elast  space and so we work with the landlord if there   are any issues in public works um with Evergreen  and the advanced learning library their upgrades   and construction is so new that we're staying on  top of any issues that occur at a small level if   I could add mayor we are uh looking at putting  together a long range maintenance plan for uh   not just those two libraries but also for these  libraries so that we can make sure that we don't   lose ground to deferred maintenance in the future  now when that will be ready sometime next year member Glascock sorry I have a lot of questions  about this um just to understand especially with   the budget question as well so you had mentioned  the witcha library Foundation is supplying a $2   million for improvements minimum was that it  it says current on here my understanding on   the PowerPoint that it was actually was so that  was already established that's not in addition   to uh the increase in proposed request um the  capital camp Campaign Committee met a couple of   weeks ago and I shared the information with them  about our our final budgets um they're committed   to increasing their Capital campaign fundraising  in order for us to be able to make the Salient   changes um I think part of theou um and kind  of the spirit of theou at the the foundation   is that we'll make adjustments to purchases  related to some of the bells and whistles   that we have to buy later on as after we get the  construction done will hold off on some of those   and allocate um the foundation funds for these  Baseline improvements for the foundational stuff   thank you Jamie I really appreciate um all the  details regarding the seven different branches   I think it's a good reminder for community that  there are six districts in witcha and almost   all council members have one Library except  for council member Tuttle um because of the   redistricting uh council member Johnson gets  to absorb two oh just sorry one um so I just   wanted to remind Community again that we have  seven branches and there are again opportunities   for people to engage to learn and utilize the  resources that are at the library so we make   really intentional investments in quality of life  uh and libraries is one of them so thank you for   what you do thank you I see no further questions  for staff so we will now open it up for public comment please state your name and your address  thank you and you will have five minutes my name   is Robert gamper my address is 1353 North Forest  View Street witch talk Kansas uh I have a question   about increasing the budget for Library liaries  and even looking at reduction if you look at the   library uh attendance if you would let's call it  it's decreased over the past decade according to   the Institute of museums and libraries from 2019  to 2022 which is the last years they have it's   still decreased by over 53.8% from 600 pardon me  from 1.25 billion people to 67 71 million people   I think that we need to rethink about spending  monies with the budget def deficit projected for   next year of being $3.6 million given the fact  that there's been such a substantial decrease   in the number of people going to libraries  I think it's something that we need to look   at hard and fast to see if we can't make up  some of the projected deficit for next year council member glov thank you quick question for  uh Jamie just as a result the previous speakers   comments he had mentioned National reductions of  libraries can you let us know what witw statistics   are compared to national averages absolutely  I think um Library Industries like any public   space saw incredible impact from covid um we are  only now returning to preco foot traffic um it's   been a long journey but I think that the  cultural changes the way that Community is   using the library the experiences that they're  having for example at Walters at the advanced   learning library and at Evergreen since they've  been remodeled those library locations are seeing   incredible foot traffic um one thing that we do  note historically um in 2009 when the when the   nation went through um housing recession that's  the time where Library use more than doubled more   than tripled because people were needing to save  money I think as we're seeing inflation rates and   we're seeing more people coming in for training  for different purposes Beyond um checking out   books our visitation is definitely increasing and  our 2 or our 2023 numbers are at the space where   we were prepandemic so it's taken a little bit  but we're getting there vice mayor Ballard thank   you thank you mayor I just got a question for  Jamie too and maybe the speaker knows are the   numbers that maybe he is speaking of I know that  since Co um things have changed for the libraries   whether they do the drive-thru or you know we're  going to the people with the with the book bus   and different things like that and people are  doing more audio and stuff like that do you think   those numbers are um considered in the numbers  that he was speaking about I mean the numbers   that he gave were significant I'm just wondering  if that's just foot traffic or do you know sir thank you and that's not a trend that we're  necessarily seeing here in which Jamie we're we   saw a steep decrease as a result of the pandemic  if you remember we had to close Library Services   we adapted it to provide curbside only um people  being able to come in and browse people's Comfort   being out in public spaces changed the number  of programs that we offered we took to Virtual   programs for well over a year um I think when I  began in October of 2021 we were just coming out   of a lot of covid safety precautions and people  were just starting to come back and so I mean we   are seeing U Trends towards more Library use more  families are using us we have um a lot of really   exciting spaces as a draw and outdoor spaces and  the nature of Library use I think gets even more   complex when we think about the library as a  third space or a community space um we'll see   we'll see a sharp uptick in usage as the branch  remodels conclude I appreciate you and your team   also being creative trying to find other ways  uh to utilize the library I know you're doing   blood pressure cuff you know I it's just so much  more than when I went to the library as a kid I   would go to the card catalog with my dad and  read the paper and you know it's just such a   different experience now and obviously we're  we're growing and you things are changing but   I appreciate you looking for ways to encourage  people to come to the library for whatever that   may be council member ho Heisel thank you mayor um  Jamie and to the speaker I appreciate you coming   up and giving those numbers in perspective and  um kind of creating a dialogue up here um I do   see a lot more uses in the ones Walter Branch  over in my disc District it's really near um a   lot of lowincome areas and a lot of people in  those areas are using it for like Jamie said   job training um applications coming in and using  the internet so we are expanding the libraries   to be more Community Center base as opposed to  just book so um I do appreciate your perspective   with it um and again appreciate the dialogue um  but I support our libraries wholeheartedly thank   you council member tutle thank you you thank  you Jamie for the presentation thank you for   coming to my district Advisory board meeting last  night we had to mooved to the fire station because   Rockwell is being remodled um but um appreciate  the updates on what's going to happen to that   facility um I also want to thank the speaker  for being here and and for your your input I   just and I'm not sure if this is for Jamie or for  Bob or for Mark or for all the people um but the   majority of this funding is arpa Right which is  the American Rescue plan act so we couldn't use it   help fill in the gap for the budget deficit  correct no that's correct yeah I just want to   make sure that the speaker understands that the  majority of this money you are exactly right um   in 2025 we are anticipate we will have a balanced  budget in 2026 we anticipate about a $3.9 million   deficit right now you know things are fluid and  always changing but this money couldn't be used   for that anyway um but thank you for your  thoughtful consideration about thinking of   future budgets because I know it's on all of our  minds as especially this time of year my other   question kind of thought comment and again always  correct me when I'm wrong but this is going to be   for an enhancement and expansion but as asked and  mentioned it also is for deferred maintenance that   needs to be taken care of correct a small portion  of what we've discovered in the final budget is   related to deferred maintenance so we're taking  care of the assets that we have and then making   them more usable and attractive attractive for the  community so that hopefully we can continue and   even enhance the amount of users in our witch  Public Library System okay thank you council   member Glascock quick question just based on a  followup from councilwoman tuttle's point so the   $2 million increase though none of that $2 million  increase comes from ARA it's not okay um what was   the plan for these Renovations before arpa funds  were they in the CIP were they planned with what   were the plans prior it was with um the 20 2019  to 2030 CIP and it was about the same cost which   would come out to about 14,719 our original budget  was less than that what was the original budget um   the original budget was about 8 million I believe  so original budget was 8 million we're funding the   improvements about 12 million with arpa funds and  then this is an additional 2 million from funds correct we will continue with public comment   are there any other individuals who  would like to speak on this specific item I see none we'll bring it back to the bench the branches that are affected  are in districts 5 4 one two or one Council I'll add a couple comments I guess before  um I just want to remind Community again that we   do make investments into libraries into Parks into  rec centers currently we have seven libraries uh   we have also three neighborhood resour centers  in district one at Atwater District 3 at cven   and District Six at Evergreen and we have seven  recreation centers at Boston at Brewer Edgemore   Evergreen Lynwood Orchard and Woodard so there are  a total of 17 locations that provide resources for   the community to gather to learn to connect and  again libraries are part of that ecosystem and   so decisions that are made from this bench  are investments again into quality of life   uh initiatives and this one in particular again  affects multiple districts and its investments   into those districts council member Glascock um  just brief comments I love our library system and   it's also not competing with Private Industry um  there's no private library system in our community   that people can go to it's a public asset and I  think we need to maintain it and so I think it's   a unique role of local government um compared  to some other functions that we have that may   compete in some ways um I will be supporting this  for the fact that the original CIP allocation was   8 million and with this it's only two million out  of our funding because of arpa so in fact we're   saving six million in renovations I have concerns  that it is over budget um this significantly and   so when we're taking a lot of these projects and  consideration in the future I know that on slide   37 it said security Tech and electrical we not  accounted for and I just want to make sure that in   our original budget allocations that's accounted  for in all of our public facilities to make sure   that we're maintaining that in the future not  that we have to come back later and reallocate   the budget for it so I will be supporting it  very supportive our library system um but I do   have some concerns about how we're budgeting this  in the future so you don't come to this situation   again later council member John stun thank you  mayor uh I too will be supporting it but I do have   concerns about budgets and making sure they're  closer and we have a uh contingency Fund in there   out of to cover these things in light of that  there has been a unprecedented at least in the   last decade inflation so I I completely understand  why why this could happen also security concerns   have increased I can understand that too on the  positive side the number of uh ebooks checked   out from the library continues to rise I think  that's important because people don't have to   purchase that book they can rent that ebook for  a few weeks and get it read I think that's very   important for the underserved in our community  that they have the ability to do that and also   internet access everyone does not have internet  access this is a a point where they can uh go in   and have internet access either do their homework  or research or a lot of different things I think   that in this day and age that's very important so  I will be supporting it and uh thank you for your presentation and one last followup um I also will  be in the affirmative regarding this subject but   I would like the public to get the long range  maintenance plan for all seven branches next   year um that will be easily accessible on our  website so people can see um the maintenance   priorities that we will be setting moving forward  um that every building uh or structure that we own   has to take into account maintenance so that  there won't be deferred maintenance I move to   approve the project budget and adopt the amended  bonding resolution second motion and a second any   further discussion I see none Madame clerk  please open the role motion passes 70 Madame   clerk please call the next item 2025 annual  annual operating budget in 2025 2034 Capital   Improvement program good morning mayor members  of the council uh today is your second public   hearing on the recommended uh 2526 uh budget as  well as the 10-year Capital Improvement program   a lot of my presentation is going to be  very familiar to you partly because you've   been working on this process since January  but also um I wanted to repeat much of the   hearing information from the last hearing for  those who are maybe here today and hearing it   for the first time uh just a reminder that  the budget and the CIP are available on our website I mentioned that you've been involved  in this process since January actually the   process started in this last quarter of last  year year when we went out with a community   survey to determine what the uh overall funding  priorities were for our residents uh since then   you've had a number of workshops we've had  citizen roundtables we've had social media   Town Hall events we've been discussing the budget  with the district advisory boards and we've also   had input from the budget simulator this reminder  um once again of the Matrix that we have used to   establish priorities for the recommended  operating budget uh and uh the C based on   citizen survey results and you have identified  four key priorities as a result of this input uh   through your workship Workshop process uh just  a reminder it's prioritizing crime prevention   increasing funding for pavement maintenance  supporting Economic Development and addressing   housing insecurity I'm going to very briefly hit  on the four items and how they're included in the   budget you've heard about a spe what we consider  to be a comprehensive crime prevention program   there are three pillars prevention intervention  and enforcement and Rehabilitation that are the   components of that program there's over $45  million in the recommended budget for crime   prevention activities in the that follow these  three pillars in addition to that $45 million you   also have money in the budget for police patrol  services and investigations but in the 45 you have   have uh housing Improvement programs uh you have  code enforcement efforts you have Recreation   Library uh for early uh prevention activities you  have a violence interruptor program which is now   getting off the ground and we're starting to get  stories of successful interventions by members   of the uh team and we'll share those with the  council in the near future and then uh what I   think I call maybe a game changer in terms of  our approach to policing last uh week when we   talked about this the initiation of the realtime  information center and you approved that at the   last council meeting terms of pavment Maintenance  um I I think it was alluded to earlier today uh   we have $49 million over the 10-year period for  pavement maintenance which is uh continuing to   increase uh especially if you compare it to where  where we were maybe 10 12 years ago there's also   $20 million for a new program that will deal  just with uh the replacement and improvements   of concrete streets and then there's $39 million  for the paving of dirt streets on top of that the   operating budget includes $18 million for Street  Maintenance activities and those are ongoing on   a daily basis economic development is a priority  established by the community and we have a million   dollars that we're recommending to be transferred  in The Economic Development Fund to help support   the small business initiatives uh that have  been reviewed and approved by the Council in   the past as well as to make sure that we have  uh sufficient funds to be able to update the   downtown master plan and partnership with the  greater witcha partnership um I'm the parking   fund is on here and I know there's been a lot  of discussion about parking over the last week   uh and the process that we've been going through  to solicit feedback uh what I'd like to do and   mayor had requested and I think it was a good idea  is to talk about the business case uh because it   does have some budget implications and so after my  presentation the budget and after we've had maybe   public comment on the budget itself we'll have  a separate presentation on the business case for parking Council approved $5 million in arpa funds  for an affordable housing fund uh that's right   now focusing on former public housing units and  having those rehabbed and redeveloped there's a   great article in the eagle today about a uh  woman who was in public housing who has now   purchased that house from us and we assisted and  her obtaining financing and talk and the article   does a nice job of talking about the impact on her  life by being able to go into a redeveloped uh and   approved public housing unit former public housing  unit and then probably one of the most important   things in this operating budget and also um in  our Capital Improvement program is the creation   of the multi- agency Center to uh provide  a comprehensive solution to homelessness in   this community uh reminder you have $8 million in  capital expens expenses for the creation of that   Center and $500,000 in the operating budget  on an ongoing basis to help support those operations pie chart which shows the total budget  which is seven almost $764 million uh if you look   at uh on the left at the re uh revenues that help  support that budget you'll see that charges for   services which is primarily for the utilities  as well as property taxes support the the budget   those are the primary funding sources and you'll  see that salaries and benefits are the number one   um activity that are that or a category that  is funded through the budget bring it back to   the general fund which funds most of our uh daily  operations property tax is the number one source   of Revenue followed by the franchise fees and  sales tax and about 75% of our total expenses   in general fund go for salaries and benefits and  then a reminder in terms of the uh priorities for   program expenses 74% of the general fund budget  goes for police fire and uh Public Works and utilities we've spent a lot of time this year  talking about our budget forecasts recognizing   that starting in 2026 we're going to have  significant challenges actually we faced some   of those uh and trying to balance 2025 but we'll  have a structural deficit starting in 26 that we   project will continue to be problem atic for us  as we go forward reminder the two major factors   contributing to that is wage growth partly to  recognize um that we mostly to recognize that   we were behind the curve in terms of uh providing  competitive wages to our employees competitive and   fair wages and so we uh anticipate that um those  wage increases will continue into the future and   will have an impact on this budget uh we also  anticipate that um we will not receive kind of   Revenue that we have from our uh Investments of  idle funds that we've had in this High interest   rate cat U climate over the last few years so uh  that leads to some of the drop in Revenue so we   have growth in expenditures primarily because of  uh uh salaries and benefits and a drop in revenues   primarily loss of investment incomes as well  as other flexible or other uh challenges sales   taxes is another one so uh if you go down to the  bottom you'll see right now we have a balanced   budget for the 2025 which we're presenting to  you today in 2026 we're at about 3.6 million   doll and then it rises to 9.3 and then 10.2 in  2028 and that's after a significant amount of   work that the council has already done uh in  terms of shaping the budget for 25 26 and 27   in 26 you have already endorsed $1 million in  expenditure Cuts $ 12.2 million in 2027 and 12   5 million in 2028 we're planning on building  on that and that's a significant amount of the   discussion that we'll have uh especially as we as  we're in the end of this year and as we enter in 2025 just an idea on some of the things that  we're exploring implementing to uh Implement   in 2025 and Andor 2026 we want to centralize  our financial services um we've been in a more   decentralized mode would think we could be  more efficient and effective by centralizing   uh accounts payable accounts receivable and some  other Financial Services uh we have shared with   the council a cost recovery model that will  um uh uh charge residents more for services   they receive when they're getting Specialized  Service not those that are shared by the general   population but those receiving specialized  Services we're also reviewing and trying to   rightsize our Fleet we are looking at the areas  in our budget that have had high vacancy rates   for the last several years and determining  what our right sizing should be for those   services and we are working with our employee  groups on both compensation and benefit uh reviews so that's it on the operating budget I'm  going to move into the CIP CIP um is uh maybe less   challenge than the operating budget um and is  uh we believe is developed for your review in a   sustainable manner over the 10year period diverse  Revenue sources for the CIP I won't go through all   of those terms of expenditure significant amount  of money over 572 thou million dollar excuse me uh   going into Street improvements we have significant  amount Into Water and Sewer as well and a rising   number for our public facilities which reflects  some of the discussion you had about the library we've recommended that uh The Debt  Service uh fund or the mill Levy for The Debt   Service fund be increased by 7 Mills for 2025  that will allow us to cash fund some projects   that originally had been planned for Debt Service  so we'll be saving some uh ongoing financing cost   as a result of that I've already already talked  about some of the high priority items in terms   of streets maintenance of our other facilities  and Public Safety I'll go over that in just a second I I won't repeat what I've already  told you on Street Maintenance and what's   in the CIP uh for Public Safety infrastructure  we have $164 million budgeted over the 10-year   period that includes our uh police increase our  new police stations fire stations and Equipment   over half of the budget or the CIP excuse me is  tied to maintenance projects and that includes   30 3 million for cultural facilities  and another 32 million for other City facilities we already talked pretty much about  the challenges we are very dependent on property   valuation growth and sales tax growth in order  to finance the CIP so any D do drop in either of   those funding sources will impact your ability  to fund what's budgeted over the next 10 years I think I mentioned when the budget was presented  um last month Council gave us a request for   additional information and a number of categories  we've now provided information to you in those I'm   just going to go over these very briefly not in  terms of what's in them but just to remind you   of the additional information you received U you  ask about Golf Course expenditures actually CIP   expenditures primarily centered around irrigation  of the golf uh system uh you asked a little bit   about the for a little information on the park  master plan process as well as funding for the   Mac uh there was a discussion about what would  look like if the mill Levy rate was increased   asked for additional information on the park  maintenance and Forestry operations we provided   you some background information on Star bonds and  uh tax increment financing uh we had a little more   detailed information regarding the shift of  the 7/10 of a mill to The Debt Service fund   there was a request for a long-term term review  of the city's Staffing levels from 2005 to 2024   we provided that uh also talked about maybe some  of the strategies that were anticipated excuse me   anticipated to be included in the 2026 budget  and a question whether any of those could be   moved into 2025 and there's a a report on that  also uh there's a discussion about the RNR as   well as what um identified strategy on Surplus  Property Disposition position there were two   requests regarding sales tax what what the process  is to implement a sales tax and move forward as   well as the sales TaxACT on CIP improvements and  then uh we talked about Street Maintenance options   primarily the shifting of dirt street uh dollars  into regular maintenance activities and then u a   question about how we've been preparing for the  deficit since 2020 when we first identified that   so uh that's it in terms of my presentation  other than to remind you that today's your   second hearing the last hearing will be August  20th at that time you'll be asked to approve   the operating budget and to make a decision and  on the RNR as part of the the final uh hearing   and then we'll also ask you to adopt the capital  Improvement program so with that I would be glad   to answer any questions regarding the proposed  budget uh in advance of receiving public comment   is there not a parking presentation  I didn't know when you wanted to do   that if you wanted to do it after  comments on the CIP or you want to   roll right into the parking okay mayor  we can do that so we can tee up the park honorable mayor members of Council  Troy Anderson assistant city manager so   uh it's a request I prepared a couple  of slides um this is information that   we have for the most part shared with you  throughout the last couple of years this   is a really really really condensed version  of my free parking is not free presentation   that um you all have seen and so I'm going  to structure this conversation the same as   previous conversations right um free parking is  not free somebody's paying for parking right um   local policy how did we arrive to where we are  today uh what are those existing conditions that   we all need to be cognizant of and how are we  planning to respond to those um and then some of   the implementation strategy and actions uh and  I'll have some information particularly as it   relates to financial and budget uh as it relates  to implementation um okay so uh local policy how   do we get to where we are today uh so we've been  talking about this in a community um for more   than 15 years now the the first policy document I  always go to is sort of the overarching policy of   a lot of decisions that you all make um is what  we call the comprehensive plan more specifically   the community investment plan a framework for the  Future 2015 2035 uh cities are required to adopt a   comprehensive plan it again addresses a number of  different strategies uh that plan was specifically   adopted in December of 2015 prior to that though  uh we started talking about parking specifically   um and back in October of 2009 uh there was  a Downtown parking and Mobility management   plan that was um approved and adopted by city  council um again we've kind of gone through all   of the context of that plan uh subsequently a year  later December 2010 there was a document project   downtown uh which actually has spurred um I think  the number is more than 1.3 billion dollars worth   of development we've seen in our community and  has primed another 700 million to come up out   of the ground in the next several years um you all  heard and entertained uh approval of an update of   that downtown plan uh just recently and so beyond  2010 there was uh and really the impetus for a a   lot of the conversations that we're having right  now uh started in 2017 as a wampo grant um called   the 2019 that was when sort of the first draft was  put together the 2019 city of witcha parking and   multimodal plan that plan was ultimately adopted  by City Council on March 21st 2023 uh following   adoption of that plan uh earlier this year there  were some some amendments that were made to some   of the local codes and ordinances to Again Begin  to kind of carry out uh some of the implementation   strategies uh those ordinances uh were um amending  Charter ordinances 237 Title 11 of the code of the   city wit C pertaining to parking I was approved  uh City Council on January 2nd 2024 that was an   ordinance so it actually required two readings  uh the second reading was on January 9th 2024   um and then the last one was we amended  and re dated the operation and management   agreement with the car park that was approved  just a couple months ago back on June 11th 2024 okay so let's talk a little bit about  existing con conditions right um one of   the things we've been talking about right is  we've heard a lot of it today right maintenance   maintenance expenses uh so this comes right  out of the 2019 City witch toop parking and   multimodal plan under the existing existing system  management and coordination right uh currently the   parking fund revenues can generally cover basic  operations but are insufficient to address all   multimodal priorities substantial maintenance  projects and or make significant improvements   so folks may try to understand what does that mean  what's what's the context right what what kind of   what's the scale and scope of maybe some of the  Deferred maintenance projects that we're looking   at um just to put it in perspective right back in  March of 2014 city council authorized um more than   N9 and a half million dollar to undertake repairs  to a recently acquired parking garage at 215 South   Market specifically out of the staff report um  leading up to that approval the steel reinforced   cast in place concrete structures fallen into  disrespect disrepair over the last decade and   was closed by the metropolitan area building  and construction Department in May of 2012   upon recommendation of two structural engineering  firms due to deterioration of key structural   components I want to clarify this was a parking  garage that the city acquired in this condition   right this was not due to lack of maintenance on  behalf of or on the part of the city but what this   does start to give you scale and perspective  on is we have a number of parking structures   and parking lots in our community right  that we need to begin to try and understand   and evaluate and make sure that they are in good  repair again this is a 500 stall parking garage   to take those kind of necessary repairs could be  North of9 a. half million and again those were 2014 another question that has been asked  of recently is right to offset that how much   are we asking uh or how much are we proposing to  charge for parking uh these are statements right   out of the 2019 um parking and multimodal plan  the city should only charge as much as it costs   to achieve the desired parking occupancy uh we've  been talking to folks the beauty of cities coming   into this space and over and managing parking on  behalf of the community is we don't necessarily   have to have a profit margin right we don't have  shareholders that we have to to speak to we don't   have we have a longterm goal and objective uh to  provide essential city services we only have to   recover we have to charge as much as a cost to  achieve the desired parking occupancy operation   and maintenance so on and so forth paying for  parking should be convenient and secure we're   working on it there's a number of implementation  strategies to talk about technology and those kind   of things the plan recommends an initial fee  range of 75 cents to $2 an hour based on the   cost to recoup credit card fees and Industry best  practices our goals to achieve industry standard   85% occupancy and then we also have evaluated  other communities on what they are charging   for parking in the back of the parking plan in  the appendix um you have those rate ranges for   our Pure communities additionally so then we start  thinking about long-term strategies right so uh we   had a conversation about this a couple of months  ago uh I threw out an industry standard uh sort   of $400 per space per year for ongoing operation  and maintenance uh plan actually recommends um   approximately 500 to 600 annually in order to  start investing in Capital Improvements uh and   capital Investments as it relates specifically  to parking currently the parking and multimodal   fund generates revenues of only about $220 or  $227 per space per year which as you can see   is insufficient to really start responding to  maintenance cleanliness safety security and the   list goes on and on of robust parking management  system so as it relates to followup from the June   11th 2024 amended and restated operations and  management agreement with the car park um this   came directly from the staff report from June 11th  it's anticipated that implementation will generate   approximately $3.3 million annually beginning  in 2025 the management fee in 2025 will be 1.65   3075 annually there's an escalator are baked into  that I think it's like 3% um that will increase   annually with inflation uh the amortised cost of  equipment infrastructure in 2025 will be $46,800 and I can verify that while we are on um a  timeline to try and uh respond to the goals   and objectives that none of the equipment  has been purchased to date we were supposed   to purchase that equipment literally this week  I've asked the car park our operator to hold off   on acquiring any of that property just to make  sure that we're all in agreement on how this   sort of moves forward um but with that being  said I'll stand for questions we have multiple   questions can you um before you go there can you  please leave it on the slide that says 2019 um maintenance first few slides please local policy  there we go thank you y council member hoisel   thank you mayor um a couple of questions here  Troy um now we talk about three $300 to $400   per space per year um that's driven mostly by  uh maintenance for the parking garages am I   correct there not necessarily that's a well we  try to approach that from the perspective of a   comprehensive main right there's maintenance of  on street parking right there's maintenance of   off street parking lots to your point yes there  is maintenance of off street parking structures   but when we talk about that's also not just the  physical structure itself right but lighting   um general maintenance of cleanliness security we  have a a security contract right we have a third   party security uh vendor that drives through all  of our assets and assures that um you know we're   responding promptly to issues around loitering  and graffiti and property damage and those kind   of things right so we want to try and continue  to try to invest in our downtown by creating a   really clean and safe environment so all of those  costs are borne by the parking fund but yeah I I   hear you there um if we did an assessment by um  per space per year solely for the parking garages   and then per space per year for the open air  lots and on street parking um where the parking   garages come in higher than the others generally  speaking yes maintenance of a parking structure   is going to be um greater than a a parking lot or  on street parking yes okay do we make any Revenue   off of the parking garages is it a money maker for  lack of a better term for us right now or are we   breaking even even with most of that going back  into maintenance so um we are currently receiving   uh revenue from our parking lots and parking  structures and even some of our on street parking   right you can drive around there's a handful  of block faces that have meter heads that are   collecting 25 cents an hour if they're actually  working uh on street we have a number of parking   lots I was reminded recently right um we've been  Gathering revenue for things such as Interest   Bank Arena events and and some of our parking  lots for better part of 15 years now right um   so and yes we also have contracts with businesses  or residents who are in close proximity to some   of our parking structures who are currently um um  leasing access to those parking structures uh but   as we've alluded to right the revenues that we are  receiving are insufficient to really dive in over   the last several years the parking fund has been  on the decline um and if we don't do something   different in the near future uh in the next couple  of years it will be operating in the red and we're   going to have to look at trying to figure out how  we subsidize uh General operation of Maintenance   okay yeah the um the cost that $9 million for  the uh the parking garage that we inherited or   that we acquired is um a little a little alarming  I suppose I would say so I'm just trying to gauge   if it's worth it for us to be in the parking  business in regards to the parking garage that   that might offset some cost so again just a couple  of questions around there um so I would like to   see if the parking garages are currently um at  least Revenue neutral for us so if if we can good all right thank you um in some of the  ongoing discussions I've heard a lot of   questions about um yearly pass discounts  or like um pass cards for the whole year   for residents who live there business  people who live there maybe something at   a discount to where we're not putting employees  themselves out you know 30 or $40 a month so I   definitely would think if we follow through with  this that's something um to to consider um is this   plan included in our current budget projections  yes so the on the last slide those revenue and   expense projections those were communicated and  have been incorporated as part of the budget yet   okay so if we repealed this we' essentially  have to find another $3 million a year or so um it's a balance between revenues and expenses  right so if you are if you expending dollars to   operate and maintain and manage a system then  the the the offset is the revenue stream to you   know whether that comes from um user fees right or  whether that comes from some other Revenue Source   it's just balancing that revenues and expenses  okay yeah my the new numbers guy on Council here   just uh said uh .4 so um I appreciate that yeah  yeah okay well I appreciate that that's all I have   council member glass I have a lot of questions  I'm going to Rapid Fire them thank you mayor um in   terms of and I think this maybe hits to the point  that councilman hois will saying was on Street   versus lot parking to me are different because  we're maintaining Street Maintenance with our on   street parking already so what is the additional  cost when we have on street for those spots   so generally when we talk about maintenance for  on street there's signage there's equipment uh   there's often times striping right um and so  there are some there are very little on Street   Maintenance expenses right and that's why when  you look at these systems as an ecosystem where   you're looking at on Street you're looking at off  Street and you're looking at off Street structured   and unstructured as part of a balanced ecosystem  right it it's hard to kind of um bifurcate and try   to put each one into a silo and determine whether  or not on their own Merit because you're right if   I'm looking at just on street I have very little  sort of overhead maintenance but in a parking   structure I have exponentially more right and so  it's a balanced approach of providing um I I keep   telling people over the last several days right  of any financial advisor is going to tell you you   need to diversify your portfolio right it's all  we're doing we're offering on street off Street   on Street structured and off Street structured so  when I I did the quick math and I might have got a   little bit different than the councilman Johnston  I got 1,1 186,000 in terms of profit for this year   you take the 3, 300,000 less the 213,000 over the  course of the first five years of amortization so   come out to about 1,1 186,000 what is our current  margin Revenue now the the this doesn't include uh   eligible expense reimbursements so we got to be  careful that that's a little bit marginalized but   yes at this point we've got to start changing  the trajectory of the parking fund starting to   um um again do hire a third party consultant to  identify the structural integrity and Analysis   of our structures and our systems right and so  we've got to start changing the trajectory of   that parking fund and making sure that we can  right size um rate structures and occupancy   with operation mandments but directly what is our  profit so in 2021 we lost about $400,000 in 2022   we lost about a quarter million dollars and then  in 2023 my my recollection is we lost only about   4,000 roughly so it was a about Break Even in  2023 so so a budget hit is not 3, 300,000 it's   closer to 1 million one or three million if you're  talking about just simply continuing what we're   doing doing then it's going to be in the magnitude  of those numbers right in other words we don't   upgrade any of the infrastructure uh in terms of  collection uh we only maintain the lots and the   garages the way we do today eventually we will run  out of money in the parking fund and we will have   to come up with money just to cover the operations  none of that goes past just regular maintenance   it's we really aren't taking care of any deferred  maintenance and we have to we haven't even had the   funds to be able to have a comprehensive review  like we did with the Market Street Garage before   we bought it we went in knowing what the issues  were there we don't have a structural review of   our existing garages I have a few more questions  I'll ask to and then I'll pass over to council   Ballard as well and just in terms of our library  discussion a second ago maintaining City assets it   wasn't included in the budget process of cost of  security for our library does this have security   cameras at all of our parking garages so it  includes uh Security in the context of a a   labor contract right we uh recently earlier this  year you all uh approved a new security agreement   for uh for labor no this does not those are the  types of uh Capital Investments we're talking   about making in order to improve cleanliness  safety security of our parking system downtown   uh so it probably won't come until a 2026 2027  budget Capital Improvement discussion right   um right now we're just trying to normalize the  parking fund at a minimum change the trajectory   so that we can start investing in there's a number  of these parking structures that need new lighting   they need new uh uh control arms they need new  rollup Gates right there's a number of Investments   that we really should be making into our system  okay and then last question I have for right now   my original understanding was that folks would be  able to pay with credit card cash or the app that   all three would be possible at all locations is  that true not true to be determined so I want to   make sure that I'm clear in the distinction  yes the app will be available areawide right   um between the the bill pay and the credit card  we are going to try to put bill pay and credit   card in as many locations as possible I say  that it's not economically feasible to put a   meter head that has a coin a bill acceptance  and a credit card at every single meter head   however where we're finding the economies and  efficiencies of scale right are if you might   have a block face that might have you know eight  to 10 spaces right it's more economical and it's   more feasible to put one kiosk sort of mid block  right the folks can use and that kiosk now might   have yes coin card bill pay you can also use the  app right and so in our higher demand areas that   makes sense and that's economically feasible  in fact I I'm getting the numbers I we started   talking about the actual numbers last week  right so I don't want to butcher the number   it's going to be some 150 plus kiosks that will  get distributed throughout right in convenient   easy to use locations now not all 150ish of  those KS will have all three of those options   but most of them will yes a large percentage  of those will have all three options than   vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor okay I have  a lot of questions but I'll try to F sure um and   some of these will be redundant so will all of  the 2hour free parking is will be gone so if you   look at what I the study area both identified in  the plan and with just generally speaking sort of   senica to Washington right senica to Washington  Kellog to Central if you just kind of think of   that as the subject area right um no there are  going to be some areas so in fact I was talking   with some folks yesterday so for example in deleno  you might see Douglas and the Douglas Street   Corridor and a block on either side well once  you get into maybe the neighborhood block two and   three no that's not part of the so in those areas  um maybe it's 2hour limits may not have hourly   limits at all right it may be what some folks  perceive as free right and so if you look at uh   there's a whole another trunch and phase that we  are going to start evaluating understanding around   the government District right that's not part of  this so for the most part yes there will probably   be some component of paid parking as it relates to  public on Street surface or structured parking but   there are some areas around the periphery right  that are not being contemplated at this time thank   you um also like when you're in warrant um their  parking is free on the weekend will there be any   opportunities like that we are absolutely uh open  to that idea in fact I was at the farm and Art   Market uh Saturday morning talking to some folks  right and there were a lot of folks go hey we need   to make sure that on Saturday mornings during farm  and Art Market is for we're open to having those   conversations right which is why we're starting  to engage Community now um we know what the system   looks like generally speaking right it's kind of  how do we fine-tune the system right to make sure   that we are responding to as many folks as  possible and the interest of the community   we are absolutely open to those conversations  okay great I would definitely be in support of   something like that um the parking fees that  businesses are paying like the bars downtown   that theyve been paying this fee for I don't  know forever it seems like um that will go away   correct to help pay for like the Oldtown parking  lot and all of that like um assuming that all of   this goes as we're talking about um that monthly  like fee that they pay which is substantial for   some of them would go away yeah so um I want to  make sure and this was a a question that came   up in our discussion yesterday so that there's  two parts of that I want to make sure that I'm   saying the right thing right um there's two sort  of types of agreements that we have right one   is an agreement with a business owner to so for  example old Oldtown hotel has a lease agreement   with the city to lease or have access to a certain  number of spaces within the adjoining garage great   that's a sort of a contract lease agreement term  that will sort of be not the model but the model   for the future agreements that we're talking about  there's another grouping and it's and it's only   applicable to Old Oldtown right there's another  group of agreements that back when Oldtown was   created right the agreements were an inl of fee  agreement right because the zoning code required   that a business provide x amount of parking so  for example if I'm a retail store and I have   to provide 12 spaces as part of my retail store  because of my square footage that was an agreement   to um contribute to a fund in lie of having to  provide my own parking if I'm a restaurant I might   have 35 spaces and so all of those are over the  years though a number of those agreements early   on have sort of termed out right there's there's  a lot of the agreements really for all intensive   purposes may not necessarily be binding right  there's a lot of retail in fact from one day   to the next you might have um a lease space that  was previously a retail store and they had a lease   agreement but the new restaurant that just moved  in hasn't negotiated so there's a number of those   businesses down that aren't paying into the system  right now and so to your point yes our goal is to   um replace and restructure for those that want to  enter into those agreements like I described in   that first trun yes we're we're beginning to have  those conversations okay so for example we'll just   use Morts as an example um so or for any business  down there their employees typically would have to   pay for their parking now or if we implement this  they would no longer be able to park there for   free obviously but so even employees would would  have to pay for parking or is there an option for   the business businesses uh great question again we  we started responding to the these questions right   uh we see that conversation generally going in two  directions um first direction is is an employer as   an employer I might say you know what I'm going  to pay for that parking for my employees and now   I'm going to use that as a recruiting tactic or  a recruiting strategy to say hey come work for   me if you come work for me as part of your benefit  wage compensation you've you've got parking right   um we're probably going to see a lot of businesses  take advantage of that there might be some smaller   businesses which we heard from yesterday which  we told hey we're willing to sit down and have   a conversation with you um you might see other  businesses kind of go hey look I I'm going to   leave it up to my employee to figure out what they  want to do for parking right because the as part   of an ecosystem right we also build in options  right what works for one individual one employee   may not work for another employee right one  employee may say hey you know what I don't mind   paying X to park in this lot or structure in close  proximity to where I work I don't mind paying that   premium for that proximity right another employee  goes you know what I I don't mind walking two or   three blocks to work I put a few dollars back  in my pocket here's another scenario right not   everybody is going to be driving and parking to  work there's a lot of folks who live downtown   right I used kind of a scenario maybe I'm a I'm  a 20-some student who will be attending the new   biomed campus and I already live downtown and  as part of my apartment agreement I have access   to my parking I'm just going to walk to work  or I'm going to take some sort of multimodal   transportation to work I I don't have to pay for  parking at all right and so it's going to be a   blended approach of um employers talking to their  employees and trying to figure out what works best   for them because I I mostly am thinking about the  service industry you know I used to own a bar for   a long time sometimes you make really great money  sometimes you don't make very good money in tips   maybe it's just a slow night so I want to be try  to be sensitive um to those situations as well I   think you already addressed my questions about  residents living in the area that may or may be   already in a contract um that that would still  be fine right if it's that contract agreement   like I previously described those will continue to  stand if it's that apartment complexes that's been   paying that sort of inl fee system right our our  goal is to end up eliminating those in termin okay   three more quick questions so I've been seeing  a lot of um he did conversations on social media   mostly about the $12 million um that this company  will be receiving uh from us or is um so my first   question is why will the management fee increase  each year um and second of all um there just seems   to be some heated conversation on why why we're  sending this $122 million um basically outside of   Witt like to Idaho I think is where the companies  from so um couple of different things number one   um let's talk through what we're reimbursing these  folks for right you see down there at the bottom   of the screen we're reimbursing them $2.1 million  annually but of that $2.1 million $460,000 of that   goes back to reimburse them for their capital  investment right in the equipment at the end of   the day that becomes the cities right after the  five years and after that is that debts retired   that equipment becomes ours and if you notice if  you go back to the June 11 staff R you'll see in   sort of year six we're no longer paying that  amortization fee if we want to continue this   agreement all we're paying is for management fee  of the $1.6 million so not all of the money is   going back to them so to speak that it's going  back to reinvest going back to reimburse them   for a capital expense to acquire the equipment get  it installed so on and so forth um the escalator   right is so they're not just taking all the  money that we're like paying you know $5 to   park that's not basically just all going to them  correct I think there's a big misunderstanding   correct on what the fees are for correct y so  um the the revenue that's generated goes into   the parking fund right and then the parking fund  is used to pay for management which includes you   if you'll refer back to the Jun which includes  again investment in that initial Capital right   um ongoing operations and maintenance general  maintenance not sign that's Public Works and   Facilities maintenance right but then enforcement  right so there's there's a ramp up of having to   acquire equipment and there's going to be labor  associated with that sort of parking officers   right to uh that will drive around and I mean  license plate scanners so there's a significant   investment on The Operators U um on the operator  side in order to again kind of stand up and do   something different than they've done than we've  been doing here traditionally right and so there's   there's a cost associated with that whether  whether that was born by them or whether we   were doing this in house these would be the costs  that we would have to pay to acquire equipment to   to install the license plate readers to hire folks  to work and navigate the system right enforce the   codes these costs are for all intents of purposes  the same cost we would bear even if we were   operating in a house okay and I would say my last  one is just a comment um in one of the parking   studies that was uh presented to us it I believe  it said that only 39% of our parking spaces were   were utilized so we have a lot of parking parking  lots uh downtown that we you're expected to   maintain and maintenance um but aren't necessarily  utilized so I know I mentioned to uh Scott W I   think we're kind of doing a disservice as in when  a new business opens and part of um what they have   to do is provides x amount of parking spaces for  that business so we're requiring all this parking   space that maybe isn't needed so then it's taking  up Prime real estate for all these empty parking   lots are everywhere but we still have to maintain  all of this parking that people aren't utilizing   so it is a really slippery slope I do worry  um I've owned small businesses before I know   it can be really difficult um I do know that a  lot of other cities are doing it even Lawrence   you know different um even smaller cities like  that are doing um the mobile pay or um I I do   think it's important to do um a hybrid I always  joke around for all the Doug Ballard of the world   that are never going to use an app or any of that  so they're I do think it's important to still have   a hybrid um especially during the transition but  I do think that we need to look at um some of the   business plans where we're requiring um business  to have so many parking spaces and then um they're   not utilized but we still have to maintain them  so just a comment thank you so much thank you   Kel member title thank you I'm going to make a  few comments I have a few questions and then a   few comments the comment part if I'm wrong wrong  tell me okay um first of all thank you Troy for   being here and for putting this together I really  appreciate it I also just want to take a moment to   thank Communications um arranging and working with  youall I think we're going to have 10 different   community events for people to be able to provide  feedback and I think that's incredible and I also   want to thank the community who has reached out  I've received calls emails texts all social media   so thank you to everyone who cares about this  topic and it it just always warms my heart that   people are interested in our city and thank you  to Jeff lure the Great which our partnership um   hopefully you're going to make some great comments  and and let us know what you think but glad that   you're here in support um one of the things that  you mentioned is this is essentially as a user fee   right so if I go downtown to go to Century 2 to a  show or wherever go down and have dinner whatever   it may be I'm paying because I'm using that the  facility you mentioned between 75 cents and $2 an   hour can you maybe shed a little bit of light  you know like will premium spaces closer to a   ities be $2 or will it be because it's in a  garage just because you know 75 cents is pretty   nominal but I understand people are in fixed  incomes and everybody's finances are different   but will people be able to know and you know if  they want the cheaper rate they can choose that   yeah so uh let me talk a little bit about kind  of the rate structure right and and kind of more   comprehensively yes to your point uh the reason  why that rate structure exists and there's a range   that exists right is that's that's somewhat of  a dynamic pricing index so to speak right so in   areas that are in Greater demand where there's  an goal and an objective in order to see higher   turnover right um we're not trying to discourage  folks from utilizing it right um but there's   there's the cost benefit right to somebody who is  parking in a on Street space of high demand for a   long long period of time right so in higher demand  areas yes there's a higher rate usually $150 .75   $2 an hour in a in areas of lower Demand right  maybe two blocks away three blocks away um still   part of the ecosystem yes you're going to see  something probably more like 75 cents an hour um   with that being said the next sort of trunch right  that people start thinking about is okay well what   if I'm going to park in a parking lot right and  I'm going to be there for longer than two or three   hours right maybe I'm coming down for the day  I want to spend an entire day down there right   rather than um paying a rate structure on street  I'm G to go find a a cheaper rate in a parking lot   right I might spend $5 for the whole day or $7 or  $10 for the whole day it's still cheaper than on   street right so I'm going to find some economies  in some on street or off street parking in a lot   right um in fact I might even go and walk a  couple blocks I might see Park in a parking   structure for5 to $10 for for the whole day right  it's all about kind of that managing that um that   Dynamic trying to achieve the 85% occupancy rate  and trying to ensure that folks have uh parking   within close proximity of the businesses that they  want to frequent and um but at the same time those   folks who are in downtown for longer periods of  time they can still find parking but they may not   necessarily have to park right in front at the  highest demand parking spaces they can find some   economies by finding a parking lot or a parking  structure in close proximity okay thank you very   much um one quick question and this is a fabulous  document that Communications put together with us   with lots of great information and and I certainly  learned a lot but just one question that came from   reviewing it again and making sure I was prepared  was in one place it says under parking fund paid   parking um there's 3,000 Public public surface  lot spaces and 2400 garage spaces and 484 M um   so that's you know 5,000 in some spots but then  it says which it has a lot of parking downtown   there's 12788 spots and then as megie as excuse  me vice mayor um referred to 39% are used during   the the week and 27% during the weekend so how  many spots is the city responsible for downtown   so as it exist today um a little over the 6,000  right um as we are beginning to implement this   new strategy right we're going to identify um more  parking the more parking that we can provide folks   right the less parking that businesses have to  provide themselves right providing parking is a   really really expensive for a business owner not  to mention um just real estate and real estate   prices downtown but the cost of providing parking  building my own infrastructure for parking is not   the highest and best use so as a business owner as  a property owner right the more public parking I   can provide and folks can kind of tap into those  resources right the the better we're all going   to be so um right now it's a little more than  6,000 um I'll get you a more accurate number as   we as we have identified what those numbers are  going to look like as part of this sort of phase   one strategy and roll out I'll get you those exact  numbers thank you and I was going to ask same with   vice mayor about like what about chili cookoff or  Riverfest or you know St Patrick's selino if there   could be some exceptions or you know times  when we want our community to come down and   celebrate Al together to maybe you know to to be a  little bit more fluid um one of the things that I   just wanted to make as a comment is when we asked  residents for input regarding the multimodal plan   um they said that more money should be spent on  maintaining the physical infrastructure including   condition and appearance of parking lots and  garages so this is something that we've been   hearing consistently this isn't just something  new that's happened even with the implementation   of this plan we've been gathering this information  you know for a bit and and hearing what residents   say and this is one way to address it um the other  thing that I just wanted to kind of mention as   a final comment and I may have more questions or  comments later but you know Witchita is growing in   terms of the downtown our vibrancy of our downtown  um it's exciting to watch it's exciting to be a   part of it um and the biomed Center is coming  and it's going to change everything it's going   to bring 3,000 more people down to the core and so  I think a plan such as this is just helping us to   get ahead it's it's almost like being proactive  for growth that we know is coming and so we're   not you know going to with this plan it's not that  we're waiting until it happens and then figuring   out how to solve the problem it seems to me that  this is a way to be proactive for what's coming   for us so um look forward to more conversation  about this but thank you very much tro   council member John stun Troy thank you for all  your work been on this I I think part of the   confusion is it was has been referred to a lot as  the Downtown parking plan not the deleno parking   plan or the Oldtown parking PL so I think I think  that caught some people off guard um and and I I   realized there's four council members that already  here and three of them voted for it on January 2nd   before we came and one voted against it um um I  understand that um my my concern is for businesses   and employees um one business I referred him to  you is paying $500 a month for parking next to   his restaurant um he's got 50 60 employees um  his question it would be mine too is how much   would each employee I know they can walk three  blocks or whatever maybe they get free parking   three blocks away um but not everybody wants to do  that want to park relatively close to work uh how   much would a monthly pass be that's a high use lot  in Oldtown by larksburg River City fors those are   both High usage spots y premium so uh and again  great question these These are the conversations   we had even as early as yesterday with the group  right we've been talking about this for several   months now I have to establish a Baseline right  and when I establish that Baseline that's based   on evaluation of other communities so again in  the back side of the plan there's an appendix that   talks about sort of pure cities and what they're  charging right and so we can glean a little bit   from what other communities are charging the  recommendation is um is $70 per space per month   now our interpretation of that right is that's  structured parking generally structured parking   there's there's more operation than maintenance  costs associated with they're generally closer in   proximity there's benefits to parking in a parking  garage again they're generally in closer proximity   so there's a premium generally associated with  parking in a parking structure so that sort of   market value is what we call it's about $70 per  stall per month we we gleaned from that appendix   at that point in time too to identify so if it's a  parking lot again not the same demand and not the   same sort of amenities Etc our Baseline is about  35 per space per month now it's just market value   right that's a baseline that's where we can begin  the conversation um if we're able to offer up $30   per space per month or $25 per space per month  in fact I'm even talking with um our operator   to see what they've seen in other communities  right some of the strategies they've implemented   in other communities um I don't want to divulge  some of the conversations that we're having right   now but I I'm trying to get creative and think  outside the box right to think about um how can   we stand up some pilot programs for 69ine months  to help ease the transition right um and so we're   looking at Solutions we I we get it right nobody  wants to pay for parking right so how do we come   alongside the businesses and the residents and  the employees and the community as a whole make   it easy make it efficient give them options right  right create that holistic ecosystem approach so   we can still satisfy the goals and objectives of  what we're trying to accomplish right um but to   your point that kind of gives you a framework  of what at least market value will be sort of   and again those numbers were really sort of  2019 numbers and now we are our 2024 so I   think we're probably even on the conservative  side of 35 and 70 but that's just what we're   going to use as a baseline that there might be  a business right that might get a bulk discount   sort of a thing right and so we're certainly  being cognizant of all of that yeah thank you   in the apartments too people rented an apartment  y that apartment's paying for parking now but yeah   thank you council member glass all right I have  a few more questions I said I was going to wait   till everybody else was done thank you mayor um  have we added evening meetings and workshops I   know that was a concern from individuals they all  we are working on trying to secure some venues   and some times in various locations so we are  working on that yes okay um can we even get out   the agreement we signed so um yes there there are  termination Clauses within the contract agreement   yes okay um handicap parking I did not hear that  mention today I know it's part of the larger plan   can you briefly help yep that's a great question  so um it's a little bit nuanced so I'm going to   play jior attorney here for just a minute right  um and I'll get corrected if I'm wrong but under   State Statute we can't charge for handicap parking  um the interpretation is in the right of way right   so if there's handicap spaces in the right of  way um we will not be putting a meter head we   will not require parking under state law we can't  charge for parking as it relates to handicap in   the RightWay now once you get off RightWay once  you get on even though it's public property in uh   lots and structures unfortunately the technology  doesn't exist to differentiate between whether or   not somebody's parking in a handicap space so for  example if I pull into a parking garage and I pull   a ticket right that ticket doesn't tell me whether  or not I'm handicapped or not and I go in and i p   park in the garage and I park in a handicap  space and I go to leave and I go to pay the   system isn't to understand and verify whether or  not your handicap right now one of the things we   are talking about doing though is in order to kind  of bridge that Gap in that interpretation right is   um there are some applications right we're trying  to have the conversation with our mobile vendors   that if you for example you are paying by mobile  right when you're coming into a lot and you're   paying Buy app and you're not pulling a ticket  it's all just license plate scanner you know does   that technology identify whether or not I have a  handicap plate can it verify that somehow um in   order to uh uh in order to kind of wave the fees  associated with parking we're working through that   but we know specifically at least yes on Street  there will be no charge for handicap parking the   rest of it is just something from a operational  and sort of tech that we're continuing to try   to work through to respond to the spirit of  the law okay councilman Johnson had mentioned   something we talked about Downtown parking I  also have concerns that lenos is included while   we still haven't built out the multim modal  facility and that will transform that area   terms of parking and so I'd be interested and I  have concerns about this in general but if this   does continue to move forward that we delay the  implementation of deleno past January until the   multi facility is completed um to be able to more  comprehensively so that's just a brief comment so   if that's a possibility for whatever it's worth  right early on in fact probably two years ago um   we had conversations with other folks folks in  Oldtown folks in downtown and the first response   we got we said what what we heard was okay but we  can't be the guinea pck right if you're going to   do this you've got to do it sort of systemwide you  got to do it from senica to Washington Central to   Kellogg because of a fear right that a business  might gain some sort of Advantage being in one   part of the parking area over another right so  just keep that in mind that there are implications   associated with those kind of now again we can  kind of sort of ease the burden a little bit right   by starting to think about things like um okay  generally standard industry standard but tells us   that that rate those hourly rates those on Street  rates and those kind of things are sort of Monday   through Friday from 6:00 am until 900 PM but after  900 PM it's free so to speak or on Sunday Sundays   are free you see a lot of communities where  parking downtown on Sundays is free or so we're   open to having those kind of conversations but  I I would just simply caution sort of a blanket   sort of delay in the for one particular area of  the subject area might have adverse implications   that maybe haven't well deleno is outside of  that subject here just mentioned from Washington   Central to Kell Delo would be excluded that  senica to Washington Sena to Washington Kellogg   to Central yeah okay which is different than  how we Define downtown correct correct I mean   I it's there are parts of downtown right um that  but there's sort of the colloquial downtown that's   that's the boundary that we're looking at thank  you vice mayor Ballard okay I'm so sorry I've just   got a question that said um that you mentioned  the possibility of a significant price increase   for big events for example the garthbrooks  um concert coming to interest the cost per   space would be more than compared to like for  example the monster truck event um would this   apply to all parking correct okay so um so yes  there's Dynamic pricing in there right so to   your point we used this analogy yesterday right  that if I'm attending a a a concert for example   a gar Brooks conert in fact this practice exists  today right um parking in one of the parking lot   associated with in Trust Bank Arena if I'm going  to a premium event that parking is more than if   on the following weekend I appreciate the the  recommend of a monster truck rally right not   considered sort of a premium event so um so rates  in those parking lots Etc are less right there's   there's that Dynamic pricing based on the event  structure um you can also then imagine there was   some question of concern I tried to clarify  this a little bit a sort of proximity right   right if there's on street parking adjacent to  a an event you might see some Dynamic pricing   Index right Associated within a block within  two blocks but beyond about three blocks you   really sort of uh lose that impact right and  so the question was well how is an event at   interest going to affect rates in Oldtown no  right okay so that is helpful um the example   they used was it would be like Dylan's you  know know raising the cost of toilet paper   during covid you know during so I do understand  that I don't really like the idea of um I think   it's kind of gouging um you're already paying to  go to a premium event like why do we have to pay   for a premium parking as well I understand  everybody wants Rockstar parking especially   in witto um so I do understand the concept I just  don't know if I agree with it but I appreciate the clarification I have multiple questions okay  we'll start off with deferred maintenance um   I want to know a have we had a comprehensive  study regarding deferred maintenance if not   why has that not been part of a priority um I  would say the answer to that is no we do not   have a comprehensive of parking assets um and  two why hasn't them that been again our parking   fund is barely generating enough money today  to do minimal maintenance replacing light bulbs   replacing broken fixtures Etc right we have not  identified uh a revenue source that could really   begin to kind of pay for that comprehensive  evaluation can we go back to the timeline   please so we have known that the parking fund  has not been breaking even really uh focusing   on maintenance future maintenance that will be  needed again my question is why why over the   years was that not part of a priority for either  staff or for Council to say the parking fund is   going to run out of money at some point and then  we're going to kick it down the line I guess kick   it to the next person to make a decision can  you answer the question of why was that not   a priority um and that's a great question and  maybe the best way to answer that right is um   I think there has been conversation over the  years right you go back to the 2017 wo grant   that started the process within the early drafts  of the 2019 parking and multiple motor plan we we   our consultant starts identifying these kind of  things right but until um until we can identify a   a program to respond to um those deficiencies  right um um I I would say I might just have   to defer to previous councils right of why they  prioritized certain things over others I I think   that's a I don't know how to answer that have more  questions council member Johnson thanks mayor uh   just to jump into that it actually has been a  priority um it's been talked about for a number   of years and the process that started at least  with my involvement was the 2019 since I joined   Council in 2018 I know conver Sation that started  prior to that but it was identified that a parking   plan needed to be um developed implemented um I  believe myself and former council member cayol   had an appointment on the committee that was  looking at this working with downtown um they   did quite a bit of work and then 2020 hit 2020  stopped a lot of things um but that conversation   was happening at the time council at that time new  Council in 2020 uh did take this serious and was   just following the plan in the work that staff  in downtown were doing uh which has led us to today I am told that a structural review will  need to happen in order to really look at all   the different maintenance how much will a  structural review cost in order for us to   actually know how much we still need even with  no new structures how we're going to maintain   the current one so we have a couple of different  ways we can approach this right um we can go sort   of individually sort of asset by asset or we  can sort of comprehensively put out an RFP for   all of the assets man if I started speculating  on what that would look like it'd be a pretty   broad range I would say it's probably going  to cost 20 to $30,000 per asset um you might   see and that might be on the conservative side  you might see hiring a consultant organization   to go in and do the evaluation and produce  a report on the recommended improvements   that may need to be made you might be40 $50,000  right and that's I'm looking at that sort of a   per asset evaluation so if we've got six to seven  assets you could see it might be a couple hundred thousand knowing that the parking fund is  declining um the question I think you posed   to us earlier was should it be parking  users that pay for it or should someone   else pay for it and that someone else would be um  the general fund which general fund means property   taxes um so is that the fundamental question  do parking users pay for it or should all witch   itans pay for it is that really the question um  I I think that question right has been the point   of the last 15 years worth of conversations  both the 2009 plan and the subsequent 2019   plan made recommendations that um uh that the city  should shift to a user based fee structure right   um we have components of that in place today right  but this is just sort of a more robust uh system   right uh all of those studies recommend that  rather than burdening and subsidizing the fund and   the operations by property tax and property tax  dollars the recommendation out of both the 20 20   and the 2019 plan were a recommendation to S shift  to a user based fee I think it comes from council   member hoel's uh question prior regarding  subsidizing this specific um asset that we   have which is Downtown parking um I feel like I  really appreciate seeing the detailed timeline   um and I want to ask um a question regarding some  procedural error uh on January 2nd 2024 uh there   was an ordinance regarding parking that obviously  passed um and the new Council came into office on   January 8th at 6 p.m. approximately and our next  council meeting was January 9th at 9:00 a.m. we   received this packet on the Thursday evening slash  Friday morning of prior to the this Council which   is typical it's right before our agenda review  in this packet under consent agenda there is   a list of second reading ordinances and which  is item number eight in the consent agenda in   that uh packet or in that handout item number K is  missing and item number number K is in uh response   to ordinance number 237 um I did look online and  online it has the revised uh second readings and   that one does have K and it has Charter ordinance  number 239 a chapter ordinance amending Charter   ordinance 237 pertaining to municipal court  procedures by creation of a substitute provision   but it doesn't say anything about parking um  so if anyone in the audience would go back to   the consent agenda they would know that that's  specifically about parking um I do know that   again it was the night before the council and  what we have read over the weekend would have   been the items that were printed to us and I know  that there were revisions that were made and they   were submitted just before 5:00 p.m. um on the  Monday uh prior to the C ccil meeting uh so I   believe that there's an error in us actually never  voting on it um if we were only going according   to the printed packet which as three council  members uh or two council members and myself   uh were going over just printed material um I I  would say that we have a procedural error in that   we did not know that we were voting on a parking  second reading um so so I'm going to ask law to   chime in on this um mayor the question is a good  one the the ordinance is referencing to municipal   court procedures is because of the parking  procedures and the enforcement so the ordinance   was referenced in the final um packet um on jly  July 9th uh the January 9th agenda did include   the the second reading of the ordinance it's  our understanding and so it didn't use the word   parking but it was referencing the right ordinance  but again that Monday so we received this entire   packet all seven of us received the printed packet  that did not have k um and K was added on Monday   right before 5:00 p.m uh and that Monday at  6 p.m is when we got sworn in so I did not   have access to my computer at that time as I was  driving over here to get sworn in um so I believe   that there's an error in us not voting on item K  on the consent agenda item council member glass cochell uh La is there anything else that I can  do regarding this because I believe that we've   had a robust conversation and I do believe that  Community I I really appreciate uh the engagement   that has been going on not just in our community  online in person and I know many of you have   questions which is why I asked city manager to  give us a presid presentation and assistant city   manager Troy Anderson gave us this presentation  and is answering all these questions um but I   believe that it's prudent for us to either um  halt this plan as no equ equipment has been   bought um and have another vote regarding this  specific item council member Tuttle thank you um it's a bit frustrating for me because we've been  talking about this for a while and there's always   a transition in councils correct um this came to  all of our dabs it came to us we did vote it on   on January 2nd but every two years this kind  of happens where new people are come in and   you know there were votes that would happen but  in June we had the opportunity to review all of   this again and decide if we were going to we had  adopted the part working plan then we were going   to decide about the vendor and so you know we did  discuss it again so saying whether or not January   9th and if there was a technicality or you were  only in office for a few hours I understand that   but we've been talking about it for I don't know  how long before June to decide which vendor we   were going to select and then again after so the  other thing and and legal again always correct me   when I'm wrong we can't just repeal this the  only time you can repeal something is during   the same meeting if the prevailing majority  put makes the the the motion is that correct   Council May you're talking about the ordinance the  ordinance was was lawfully adopted on January 9th   um and so it would take a special agenda item  and this was a charter ordinance so there's a   60-day period after two readings um so it  could not be done in just one meeting yeah   so I guess my my last thought and probably not as  varnished as as my comments I wish they would be   but we have to do something um we have maintenance  that needs to be taken care of we have residents   who have told us that they don't like the potholes  they don't like the conditions of our parking lot   they're concerned about safety in garages and we  know our downtown is continuing to grow and to   thrive and with vibrancy brings change we have  to do something and so this was the plan that   we adopted after much Community engagement for  many years and then went through with selecting a   vendor that was in it passed six to1 um so I like  I said I'm not probably articulating my comments   very well but I'm just a little frustrated that  we're at this point when we know we need to do   something thank you council member Johnson thanks  mayor um I disagree with um doing anything right   now to stop that I know that we've made an  agreement we heard it was lawful um we have   over the years talked about things that we get um  last minute and I think uh for the new members it   felt like last minute uh we had previously again  been talking about this for years we had voted on   it and it was coming back in the consent agenda I  do understand reading it over the weekend you may   not have had that one item uh to look at but uh  it was actually voted on by all of us and anyone   who might want to look it up if you just Google  Charter ordinance number 239 which talk Kansas it   pops up you can read it word for word talks about  some of the changes made for parking additionally   to the point that was made about priorities um  this was a priority we've been working on this for   quite some time with many groups I understand that  the public um may not have always paid attention   to that and now has some concerns I think  that's great that people are engaging in this   conversation now and can make this better um going  forward and give a lot of information to Troy and   the team that we're working with but I think  that now that we have taken all of these years   we have a plan we put forth we voted on it we have  agreement signed we need to go forward with public   engagement see what the community continues to  think about it again change not everybody's going   to like change but there are times we can make  things better but trying to Halt this now on a   technicality that we've heard is actually lawful  um I think is a step in the wrong direction   direction we need to continue to move wiah forward  work with our community and local businesses to   see how we can make this better um and implement  this plan council member Glascock thank you mayor   um because of a lot of the conversations up here  and I will state on the June vote I was the sole   vote in opposition because I had concerns about  this at that time not knowing that there is the   technicality we received the agenda packet um  I voted based on the agenda packet that was   printed and received to me um and so for sake of  accountability for sake of standing by our votes   up here I would be interested in a vote to bring  this back before this body given public discussion   um and so I don't know from the legal side if  I can make that motion now that this comes back   before Council and so if there's confusion about  what we voted on what we didn't vote on can we re   um look and retake a vote on this just so there is  a clear uh stand on where each one of us on this   Council stand um council member in the ordinance  there is a provision for under Council agenda for   that is the time for council members to U make  a motion to bring items before Council so what   is the charter ordinance number if I were to make  that motion and council member agenda it was 239 I   believe count okay 2:30 Charter ordinance 2399  okay I will plan on doing that during council   member agenda council member ho Heisel thank you  mayor um would that be five votes since it's a   charter we'd have to have five votes to repeal  that correct to actually change the charter   ordinance it does take five votes um just to for  today's purposes to bring it back um just to take   a simple majority for that Council discussion that  you're talking about having Council vice mayor   Bard thank you mayor um legal what does that mean  for if we revoted on it what would that mean for   the contract that was voted on it June um I don't  know that any processes have been set up yet under   the contract that are subject to the Charter  ordinance maybe Troy can talk about that yes   so we should probably provide maybe some clarity  right on what the ordinance amendments that took   place on January 2nd January 9th accomplished  right the plan is the plan is the plan right   that was approved back in uh 20 uh 2023 right the  ordinances that got changed on January 2024 simply   restructured the traffic code amended the traffic  code to allow for a third party to enforce City's   parking ordinances right um the the contract  agreement includes enforcement right so if   for whatever reason um there was a process and the  charter ordinance were repealed and amended to not   allow a thirdparty operator to enforce the parking  codes right the enforcement side of this is only   half of the conversation right the other half of  the conversation is whether or not you implement   sort of a paid parking strategy right whether not  you introduce a paid parking strategy was not part   of the charter ordinance Amendment the charter  ordin mement was specifically related to just the   traffic code and just converting the traffic code  to allow a third party to enforce parking and to   provide the city engineer and the traffic engineer  the guidance and the direction on how to sort of   manage this system right so that there's a little  bit of you may only be responding to sort of half   of the equation I don't know if I've communicated  that well enough I think that's correct I think it   does go down to the enforcement ability changing  the ordinance would would address would would   affect that if depending on what the council  chooses to do that's the ordinance that enabled   the third party to enforce parking council member  Johnson thanks mayor I I just want to highlight   and I know I sound like a broken record saying  this over the years but um when I ran for City   Council one of the things I continued to hear  from some who did business with the city was   that the goal post change and we um sometimes go  back on our word and that really um caused people   to not want to do business with the city here we  are at this point I think we've done better over   the years um but here we are again considering  breaking a contract with somebody who has made   investment made commitment we've signed it they've  signed it um and that was done last year and we   now looking at potentially breaking another  contract and again as local government I   think those are the wrong steps to take if we go  forward and make an agree with someone agreement   with someone then we need to honor that and if  the details of said agreement aren't um maybe   the best that's some work that we should have did  on the front end before making the agreement but   once we've made that agreement I think it's  on us to honor it and should we find a way to   break this agreement I can guarantee being on the  council all the these years I know of businesses   who said they'll never do business in wiah again  because councils have made different decisions so   I hope that we take into consideration keeping  our word honoring our agreements going forward   and that we don't start breaking contracts with  folks that we have um legally agreed to work with   council member Glascock I'll bring it up again  my biggest concern about this was the Outsourcing   to a third party so realizing that that was uh  precipitous for the charter ordinance and why we   move it makes me more sure we should be addressing  this as well so I'll continue to bring this up in   council member council member tutle thank you  um tro you mentioned that we could still break   the contract would there be a fee associated  with that if we did are you aware so um there's   a a termination Clause of notice I think that I  don't have it with me right now but to the cont   text of it's a uh we can terminate with 100 180  day notice and basically we just have to pay   them whatever the annual or whatever the monthly  reimbursements are that are owed over that 180   days um but then there's there is a termination  Clause with 180 day nois okay thank you I I just   want to Echo and applaud my colleague and  dear friend council member Johnson for your   comments um there seems to be a new pattern of  breaking of changing things moving the goal post   and and I don't think that's what our community  wants us to do um I also I understand change is   hard I get that um this is a shift in our  community but our community is changing and   growing and this is a response to that and  again as I mentioned I'm being redundant but   to be proactive but realistically there probably  is not a path and correct me when I'm wrong Troy   for us in our community with the situation we're  in now to to not have some sort of paid parking a   user fee for parking and so we like you said we  we had a plan with robust Community engagement   over many years we we you know voted for the  plan um and then selected the vendor and now   again we're in this kind of precarious position  we're thinking about change moving the goalpost   again but we don't have a plan for what we're  going to do and we're probably going to end   up pretty much in in a similar situation so  again sorry to be redundant but my my level   of frustration is is certainly high right now so  I'll look forward to see what happens thank you   vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor um I have a  question and a comment a comment is it seemed to   be at the first meeting one of the main priorities  was undoing campaign finance and potentially this   was overlooked um and it is you know frustrating  sometimes when things are added to our agendas   at the last minute but I also know we're big  city and things change so that's my comment my   question is perhaps we vote on this and the votes  are to Halt the plan okay I don't know how I feel   about that yet but what if that happens we still  have the same problem and you know we've been   working on this the first conversation started  you know 2009 like we don't have a lot of time   the biomed Center's coming we have all of this  development close to a billion dollars or you   know a lot of money of um infrastructure that  is coming downtown um what I mean what would   an alternative plan even look like we don't have  we're already behind the eightball now um we still   have the same problem if if we decide to Halt  the plan or stop the plan um what would happen   what would happen if we don't move forward Bally  um well that's a great question right um I think I   think part of your question answers your question  right you had alluded to if we don't do anything   different then we don't do anything different and  um we've already sort of laid out the trajectory   of of the parking fund and um investment and  maintenance into our infrastructure um if we   don't do something now with that being said does  that mean that an alternative plan couldn't be   developed possibly right I don't know what that  looks like I don't know how long that takes um   again kind of speaking leaning into a little bit  right there's been some commentary around there   was there was robust Community engagement  we've kind of shared all of the community   meetings Community surveys Community meetings  that led up to adoption of the 2019 parking and   Mobility management or excuse me the the parking  and multimodal plan on March 21st of 2023 if those   in the course of a year year and a half if those  goals and objectives have changed somehow I think   you're talking about sort of starting from scratch  right I mean or at least going back to revisit the   plan um you know maybe you're hiring a consultant  to go back out and try to understand whether or   not the plan is still the want and the desire  of the community again I don't know how long   that takes I don't know what that looks like but  to your point I I don't have an alternative here   for you today I've simply and I think the city  and staff have simply been following the guidance   and the recommendations coming out of the plan  thank you mayor if I could I don't know that it   necessarily would require a wholesale change in  the plan I think the biggest issue and several   of you have talked about this over I know over  the weekend in the past the biggest issue is   how much of the system should be supported from  property tax and how much should be supported from   user fees if you believe that public parking is a  should be at least partially shared as an amenity   downtown by all taxpayers and then we could bring  back a hybrid plan for you that covers a certain   percentage of Revenue of the of the revenue  from us user fee and a certain percentage is   underwritten by the general fund or by property  tax that that would be another approach um right   now and and through all all of our planning  efforts the council has said we don't want to do   that we know the pressures on the on the property  tax and so we're going to try to do it through   user fees obviously this weekend you heard a lot  of people say they're not necessarily comfortable   with the results of that so more than happy I  don't think I think the the principles of the plan   are accurate we need to put money back into our  parking infrastructure we cannot defer maintenance   to a point where we have to spend $10 million to  save a garage right so I think we all agree with   that I know I have been approached and council  member Glascock and I have talked about this   I've been approached by people in deleno saying  I want some metered parking because I have people   that are parking in front of my store all day so  I want some encouragement of people to only be   there for an hour or two so so they like this that  approach what that looks like in terms of parking   fees and length of time and all that that's up  in the air and I think and and then we also have   the complications of an existing plan in Oldtown  and maybe it's a hybrid approach you know maybe   trying to get us with a baseline approach where  one size pretty much fits all maybe that's not   the right approach and that's one of the reasons  why the staff has 10 meetings scheduled and more   meetings coming and if you look at them there  are several in Oldtown just Rec recognizing that   they've paid many of them have paid into the fund  but there's an inequity because not every Oldtown   business is paying and so how do we then treat  all the Oldtown businesses in a fair way that   allows you to address their Patron parking needs  as well as their employee parking needs which came   up earlier so I to me it's the principles are  there how we fund it and the council's policy   direction is really where I think we should focus  council member Glascock will be my final comments   regarding this portion but couple my colleagues  said things that make me have a desire to respond   first off thank you Bob for the clarification I  think that's my concerns is I don't necessarily   think we need to scrap the entire plan but I  think there needs to be substantial changes my   concern has always been exporting this to a third  party um that has been that my primary concern and   you know while I respect uh councilman Tuttle and  councilman Johnson's I wasn't elected to maintain   the status quo and if the city was doing something  that um I'm not here to blindly accept staff's   recommendations all the time if there are changes  that need to be made I'm responsible for my vote   my vote only and so just because something's  always been done some some particular way does   not mean that I have to maintain that policy as  well so I look forward to robust discussion about   whether this is thir party management whether this  is in house how we adapt this as a city um but I   really appreciate this good discussion and I think  it's a philosophical discussion From the Bench as   well council member Johnston thank you mayor you  know I've never claimed to be the smartest person   in the room and I probably never am um I always  thought it was referred to as a Downtown parking   plan that's what I maybe that wasn't said but  that's there's a lot of discussion about the uh   about the biomed Center about all this happening  in downtown and need this downtown plan to take   care of these downtown Town parking garages so in  my mind I I probably missed it but that's what I   thought it was um second thing I didn't didn't  know that there was an Oldtown parking plan till   just Friday didn't know that Oldtown businesses  Apartments restaurants were paying for their   parking or help maintain the parking never knew  that um I will say that uncertainty is always   worse than bad news people can deal with bad news  because they get a plan to deal with it and right   now we have uncertainty among the Oldtown deleno  and I I've talked to people in Oldtown Delo too   that exactly what Steve manager said they're  not opposed to it because sometimes an employee   from a business park there all day they can't  get customers in there to their business that   happens so it's not all bad maybe I'd propose  in just delaying it a little bit getting some   pricing structure maybe getting some agreements  with with deleno and Oldtown especially uh what   that might look like so they have they know what  it looks like they can be for it or against it um   but at least they know what it's going to be now  if that's engaging our park I know they've been   investing more money not a finalized contract I  know they've already signed it but you know that   they would have to do that some more work there  I I understand that but maybe removing some of   that uncertainty of what it cost and certain Lots  fill the whole plan get things worked out a little   bit more a lot more discussion robust discussion  among businesses um know a lot of council members   here like to have more robust discussion take it  back to the people for discussion and comment um   I think they need some numbers they need some  certainty of what it's going to be and if they   can deal with it and how they can deal with it I  don't think they're all against it um I just think   the uncertainty is worse than bad news so maybe  we just take a pause and for a couple months those   questions answered they bring it back just just  my suggestion council member Johnson thanks mayor   um to council member Johnston's point I do believe  these public meetings are opportunities for folks   to not only hear numbers suggest numbers and talk  through what this um could be I don't know um that   a delay would be necessary for that but I think  you know we've even talked about adding additional   meetings for public engagement so I think that  would be beneficial um my other comment to my   colleague uh council member Glascock I I don't  think anyone up here was elected to maintain   status quo um and I'd argue that each of us in  different ways have challenged um government   staff and the direction of the city in multiple  ways I think the point that I was making and I   will continue to make is if we make an agreement  um and we vote on it and it is approved and it is   signed that we need to honor that now those some  of us can oppose it it may not be a 70 vote every   time but if a majority of the council has agreed  to something um efforts have been made and again   I've seen that a couple times over the years  where Council has made a commitment and then   changed it or went back on it later that becomes  a problem for our government reputation going   forward so even when we want to do other things  with other organizations the question will remain   and there are people today in the city of with  youah who will say will the city council honor   this agreement and I don't think that should ever  be a question of the governing body um whether we   like it or not and there's been agreements  we've made that I wasn't necessarily for   if we made that agreement then I think we should  honor it and I don't think that's status quo and   again I don't think any of us were elected to  maintain the theoretical status quo out there   council member hoisel thank you mayor um just  a a thought I don't even know it's a suggestion   or not but uh could we put together maybe an  advisory committee of affected business people   uh residents of downtown uh to some stakeholders  to maybe give a little bit of advice and feedback   outside of the public engagements that we have  uh just again just a thought just wanting to   make sure we get some input of people who are  affected on an everyday basis with this thank you I see no further questions but I will  add just a couple comments before we open   it up for public comment um currently the public  engagement opportunities all seem to be during   normal business hours 9 to5 um I would suggest  that a lot of our residents just like you saw   on Thursday which was our third evening time  meeting it really engaged individuals who may   be working 9 to5 and cannot make daytime meetings  like today um so I would suggest that there are   more opportunities also for evening time so that  individuals can speak up um I appreciate council   member hoel's suggestion of having stakeholders uh  specifically business owners but also uh frequent   uh individuals who have a stake in downtown um  I would say that greater witcht partnership um   I know has been part of this conversation and  they would also be a stakeholder in this uh WSU   and kued uh the biomed Center they would have a  stake in this so there are multiple voices that   still need to be heard I would also include WSU  Tech into that conversation as well um and I do   appreciate um council member Johnson's comments  regarding not wanting to break um contracts with   businesses um and I don't certainly don't want to  do that but my first commitment and agreement is   to the people of witcha and if it was my error  in not looking at the second readings and with   that error not having that specific ordinance 237  where I could have pulled that item just as you   saw today in count uh consent agenda um then it is  my error and I apologize um but I do believe that   there needs to be more of a robust conversation  and I'm so appreciative that community members   want to be engaged and want to be involved and  care about the small business owners that they   believe will be negatively affected um but I  also want to hear from those small business   owners on um how it will or will not affect  them uh what are their questions their concerns   and so um I know that this is not the time since  it's council member agenda time to do any of this   but um I am wanting to know um how city manager  Bob Leighton mentioned we're fundamentally all   in agreement that we cannot defer maintenance  so I believe that all seven of us know that   maintenance is something that is a priority we  just talked about it in the library um agenda   item um but the real question is is can we have  some sort of model moving forward on who should   be paying for the maintenance of downtown Oldtown  deleno parking and uh city manager Leon proposed   a hybrid model uh where it's not just users not  just user fees but maybe some property taxes which   would then come from our general fund and as you  saw earlier in his presentation the general fund   already has multiple allocations s already for  multiple different departments so where will you   be cutting in order to get us to that position  where we would use some property taxes and then   some user fees in addition to I would like to  mention that I do want to see more individuals   in our downtown and I um really appreciated vice  mayor Ballard's suggestions regarding some weekend   specifically Sundays uh of free parking and I  think these are all opportunities again for for   um our community to engage with us to see how we  can get to a better solution um so city manager   Leon thank you mayor my initial thought and  reserve the right to to maybe alter this in the   future but if we were going to look at a hybrid  model I would look at one that had the capital   Improvement program paying for the maintenance the  the significant maintenance of the garages and our   parking infrastructure and then the users paying  for the operations that and so what we would do   is identify the cost and the initial cost will  be to do an assessment of all of our garages and   infrastructure and then use that to educate us on  what our ongoing cost would be for maintenance and   upgrades that will mean shuffling the CIP in the  future and you're right May that you just have   to recognize there'll be you'll have to shift  priorities if you go in that direction but if   you want a hybrid model that's probably the one  that makes the most sense unless we find that   the price tag is so steep that you've got to have  user input or user money as well but that would be   a starting point uh in terms of methodology vice  mayor Bor sorry to keep dragging this on um thank   you mayor uh the oiltown association has been  involved in the parking conversation which is   a combination of businesses and residents that  live in Oldtown so not to say that we can't do   some type of steering committee I just don't want  to duplicate anything or maybe we can invite um   some more residents or um whoever you think maybe  should attend uh maybe specifically for the next   couple months while we're going over the parking  plan so I just wanted to throw that out there   thanks thank you uh council member Johnston  thank you mayor city manager what like what   what about the uh possib this just an idea what  about possibility of a tiff District to maintain   parking lots in that in the same region well a  good portion of that area or of downtown isn't   a tiff District or multiple different Tiff  districts we just Clos the Oldtown districts   after you know having a successful repayment  of debt um I don't know if we have the ability   to create a a brand new Tiff and that regard it  would be we'd have to show that there's sufficient   increment a lot of the growth that has occurred  is um in evaluation that's behind us now right   through a lot of Redevelopment projects we'd  have to identify what potential there is for   property tax growth in a in a district and what  the boundaries would be um and not overlap even   a quarter Cent or something I don't know how  much that would do have to run the numbers on   that we'll look at that as an alternative or  add it to the present one right I don't know   council member hoisel thank you mayor uh would a  c be a more appropriate than a two again you'll   need approval right from the those that are  impacted but yes thank you another possibility   okay a procedural question then is is this  just a staff recommended uh a direction to   staff regarding looking at a hybrid model what  are some opportunities or does this need to   come back in council member agenda no no I think  Direction on how to move forward next steps in the   parking plan I think that can just be now during  this item I think it's only the reconsideration   asking for an ordinance to come back is what  would have to go under councel under your policies thank you Troy I see no further questions  for staff so now it's the opportunity I'm so sorry   for um this delay but it will now be time  for public comment uh regarding the budget   operating budget the CIP and also the parking  plan uh so again if you would like to speak   please say your name and your address so that  our County our city clerk can have you on the record hi there Dan Norton with Norton's Brewing  Company downtown um I'm really glad to be here   today I really love the the banter up here and  the discussion really appreciate all the ideas   um I think councilman Johnson kind of nailed it  it's kind of the uncertainty that's really scary   for small business owners um I don't have a lot  of time to pay attention to everything you guys   are doing so for a lot of people this was the  first real information we're were getting about   the parking plan and I don't know if you've been  reading comments it's not going over very well   a lot of people saying well I guess we're not  going downtown anymore and as you can understand   we love being a part of downtown so much we love  the growth we've seen we're trying to grow our   business and help become a bigger part of it  and and help celebrate and kind of help raise   Witchita to another level for tourism and just  for the people that live here and we're so proud   proud to be a part of that and it is scary it's  a scary thought when you have seems like 99% of   the comments online are I guess we're not going  downtown anymore um you can see where that would   cause some concern for somebody that's worked  very hard to build something for their family   um you know if if even a percentage of the  people don't come downtown then we're going   to have Financial issues and struggle and we're  not looking forward to that so I I understand   there needs to be something to that needs to  happen as far as the maintenance side of things   I already maintenance are a lot I weed whack it uh  I filled a pothole in myself because we couldn't   get anybody down there so I know you guys don't  have it in the budget to maintain them all but   uh we'll take on some of that burden I'll sweep  the lot I'll kick in on light bulbs if we need it   whatever um but the uncertainty is the scary part  and we're all pretty scared so um as far as the   budget goes I don't know how you're going to work  that out but um we're willing to help and we're   really uh willing to be part of the discussion  I just think when it was dropped on us and they   were like by the way it's in five months this is  launching we all kind of freaked out um I know   we were present at two of the meetings yesterday  I do apologize if they got a little heated and a   little agitated um but we're all just kind of  scared so we're um you know lots of questions   lots of concerns and everything we're hearing is  people don't want it so it's like how do we move   forward from here um and you guys take care of  what you need to take care of and and wherever   we can help we're here and we want to be a part  of it so um I really appreciate the discussion   I heard today and I love to see that you guys  are working hard for us and and thinking about   small business owners downtown and um I thank you  for your time count vice mayor Ballard thank you   mayor um I just wanted to tell you I know this is  probably really painful for you to sit here for   this whole thing to get up and speak for a couple  minutes but there's really what we need to hear   um so thank you so much for being here and being  patient we really do need to hear from from the   people um not just the people that were wanting  to come down and you know patronize the businesses   and and shop and do all the things but really the  people that it's affecting um or could potentially   affect um not even just as a city but the small  businesses so um that's why I mentioned earlier   you know what about your employees you know um so  I just wanted to tell you I really appreciate um   you being here being patient and and giving us the  feedback that we really really need so thank you um my name is Josh wthin um I live at 325 courtly  Street and I own and operate a restaurant in   downtown which tall called L uh at the corner  of Central in Market um we are very very excited   about the biomed Center um we stand to uh really  um to really take advantage of that in the coming   years and we're so excited and so happy about the  development of our downtown um currently we're   located in a part of downtown um um known as a uh  a um distressed area um in fact we received a uh   benefit uh in one of our loans because of that um  and uh as we wait for the biomed Center we um know   that there's coming construction on our uh front  Street to make it at two-way street very excited   about that as well but um as a business owner my  main concern is these next three years or so to   hold on to uh make it to that to that end goal  um where the biomed Center is complete and those   folks are are are working downtown um so in the  meantime um uh to find out that uh we have another   obstacle coming in our way uh as far as uh the  public response of this parking plan um does bring   um that uncertainty that uh you guys have heard of  already um now uh I'm new to downtown it's been 10   months that I've been um operating and it's been a  really pleasurable experience and uh I really look   forward to my future as a business owner downtown  witll for many many years um but I am definitely   concerned about this uh to survive these next few  years until we reach that uh by Center goal thank you good afternoon my name is nickcole connard  I live at 6100 North Fairfield Road 67204 I'm   a constituent of Maggie ballards Riverview  District Six as all of you decide for decide   the requirements of wit's upcoming City budgets  it sends doubt that civil servants and proactive   infrastructure maintenance are mandatory for the  well-being of any of our city and I appreciate   all the work that each one of you put in as a city  council member to create our city although for a   town to flourish it must also provide libraries  and parks along with arts and culture for not   only its citizens but to draw in tourist I stand  before you this morning as the president of hwc   historic witcha countown Inc Board of Trustees  The Advisory board for the city of witch's old   countown museum by mouthful we're getting ready  to celebrate our 75th anniversary in 2025 I want   to thank the council for the much needed midyear  budget increase this allowed C toown to return to   prepandemic operations we weren't able to do what  we were doing before 2020 so thank you also thank   you for the new golf carts and the Wi-Fi and the  maintenance we'd been on deferred maintenance for   a long time we're seeing some great improvements  the museum and our visitors have been thrilled by   the budget allowing the return of the historical  interpreters there's also much excitement around   our new director James Quint and the work  Lindy Baka has been accomplishing for the   museum my trustees and I feel it is is an honor  to preserve the history of our Museum old cow   toown is a museum and we all know museums not the  best at many makers however they are part of arts   and culture and without arts and culture a city  has a difficult time drawing tourist it also has   no feeling or heart it has no quality of life for  it is through arts and culture that citizens show   their hearts and how they connect with their  Community old C toown in hwc are concerned   over the current proposal for increasing the  Museum's cost recovery by an additional 150,000   for context the city guarantees OC's fundings  with revenue from Admissions and ground rentals   and Merchandising returning to the city this  results in witto receiving roughly 40 cents   on the dollar return for every dollar budgeted em  this is cost recovery with only recently receiving   our pre pandemic funding levels OC's cost recover  has only recently began to recover see it takes   money to make money if it is passed and vote  for OC's cost recovery to go up significantly   in 2026 this will lead to Future drastic budget  cuts as a result of the difference between the   actual versus proposed cost recovery demands  at a place like ocm 150,000 goes long way and   really it's a drop in a bucket but for arts and  culture institutions losing 150,000 is disastrous   it will conce place ocm on a downward spiral  loss of Staff inability to put on events loss   of accreditation physical deterioration all  of which lowers visitor experience in reality   most of the remaining 60 cents on that dollar  is being invested by ocm does not come from   witch's General budget it's being made up and  returned from the transient guest tax this tax   comes from which to visitors who stay in hotels  without arts and culture it is hard to draw these   visitors in and with old ctown Museum wi owns one  of the largest living history museums in all of   America and the only one representing 1865 1880  please do not restrict the budget here please   give the Arts and cultures their events their  museums their causes and in my case old Cowtown   Museum the chance to improve our city by drawing  in tourists to assist our hotels restaurants and   local businesses to earn money and let each Arch  and culture have the required money to spend to   earn money not just for themselves but for the  city of Witchita and its people thank you very much morning or I guess wait oh it's good  afternoon now uh my name is Faith Martin I   live at 608 South jury um and I reside in District  2 and I was here to talk about the CIP but I feel   compelled to talk about parking just a Teensy  bit um sitting on the dab in District 2 this was   presented to us last year and um unfortunately  not all of these details were presented and I   actually wasn't for it but it passed through our  dab the majority was for it um I agree with some   of you that maybe third party isn't the away  but I don't know that canceling the contract   is the way to do it it could be um making sure  that the dynamic pricing and data privacy since   they're going to have access to our credit card  information and our tags we just need to ensure   that that vendor is ensuring that for the citizens  of witto um there are some best practices because   I don't want to just come a complain I always try  to bring options um I've traveled a lot around and   uh one of my favorite parking not that I love  to pay for parking but was in Pensacola Florida   I would absolutely encourage you to look up  their parking pay website it lists the events   that you'll have to pay for when Dynamic pricing  will affect those events when it doesn't what   average pricing is what the zones are the GPS of  their app lets you know if a s a parking spot is   open where you want to park and also let you uh  be able to say I'm at the Broadway in Witchita   and I only have five minutes left on my parking I  could just reup on my app and I don't have to run   outside and do anything at a kiosk so I would  encourage us maybe not to backpedal and cancel   everything but maybe let's look for ways where we  can inform the community better about what pricing   will actually be how we're like uh disabled  Community or the business Community what is   the actual impact and how can we address those  concerns because it sounds like that's where a   lot of the fear is coming from and uh the comment  came up if we do a hybrid model where we would be   cutting and that'll take me to my CIP comments  because I never want to talk about something   without how we're going to pay for it because  we all know there's a budget shortfall coming   all of you have worked really really hard to ask  the right questions and to figure out where we're   going to cut um when I look at core services in  witchta parks and record core services so what   can we cut when I was looking through the budget I  found a couple things that concerned me when we um   the director talked about the three priorities  in the CIP what's not included in that is Art   um those are not under the priorities I saw 3  and a half million to fix the Hyatt prominade   or do updates I couldn't find anything on Google  about why the city is responsible for the Hiatt   prominade or what that looks like so I'd love  to see that address that's $ three and5 million   um there's $1.8 million a year um for art and I  don't mean art at like Cow Town or any of those   places it's basically pedestal art um Riverbank  improvements path um there's art inside police   and fire stations this is over $17 million of just  physical art um as we're all tightening our belts   um the city is having to do the same thing I would  say when we look at parks and libraries and Roads   and Public Safety those are really priority  things and potentially we may have to look at   it's an ordinance or it's a city code section  2.12 11124 was amended in 2019 to add chapter   2.15 it says um basically that they're going to  be a establishing a public art program that's   where design Council comes from that's where all  that happens so this isn't how we've always done   it this has just been since 2019 and uh maybe we  look at amending that public code when we have a   shortfall not that I am against the Arts I love  the Arts I love supporting local artists I love   supporting our local art community but when we  look at what the core services are we may have   to walk that back until we can get ourselves um  to where we have a little more budget if we're   looking at a place to cut and we look at what's  very high on that survey streets Bridges water   supply Public Safety Art's not really part  of that so I don't want the Arts Community   to think that I don't love them and support them  but if we have to cut somewhere not putting art   in a fire station or a police station might be a  great way to make that cut a little less painful   and then if somebody in the future could tell  me what is about the hiup prominade I'd really   appreciate that because I don't I don't understand  that I couldn't find any explanation thank you would like city manager Leighton to  address the prominade and also the 2% I'll start with a 2% that was um after a very  robust discussion by the Council on um our policy   and how much money should be designated um we  went uh from a model that had a percentage of   a of projects for um designated for public art  to a a if I remember right a smaller percent   but then the design Council had a pool of  funds that it could then use for what they   consider to be significant projects and um  as I it was again very robust discussion by   the council before they got to that policy um  and it had been in question for a long period   of time um I'd say since the recession um in um  2009 2010 11 and it was right around 2019 when   the Council made that decision or 18 the followup  question really quick I think Lindsay Baka might   have this answer uh the Water Treatment Plant  actually has art that was approved is all that   artwork already purchased and if so or if not  um are there any opportunities to scale that   back I think contracts have been enter into and  some of the art has been installed by OT Lindsay good afternoon mayor counil Lind zaka director  of Arts and Cultural Services uh regarding the   water treatment plant in particular all  of those works of art are on contract and   are in installation phase uh one of the one  of the three has already been installed the   other two are um in root and we have one of  the pieces is actually in our hands already   we're just waiting for the bike path to be  poured so we can install the sculptures so   there's not really a return option for those  how much was the total for the three pieces for   the three pieces I want to say was about $1.2  million Al together um allocated by the design Council moving forward I know that we also have  the sewer or the BNR uh will that also have art   I don't remember I don't recall that it does any  other major structures moving forward that have   a consideration regarding Arts uh we have  art Provisions in the library uh the branch   libraries um that was discussed earlier today  um I'd have to go back the design Council has   a list of projects that will have public  art this this year and then we'll do the   same for next year are there opportunities  as the speaker asked the question to scale   back some of the 1.8 million designated to Art  per year I don't know if that would require an   ordinance change I'd have to go back and look  or if it's a change in policy do you know Lindsay yeah yes there would be a requirement  for an ordinance change in order to do that can we get an email regarding the  process if that is something again I want to   all the information on how this 2% um I I've  looked at the beautiful art that we do have   but I also know that we have to maintain that  art as well and again back to the maintenance   question when we build anything new or we  expand anything I think we have to have a   more conscious conversation regarding how we're  going to maintain everything moving forward and   I want to make sure that maintenance is really the  top priority um after the creation of whatever it is if I may just to that point 10% of that 2%  by ordinance can be allocated to maintenance so   this is the first year actually we've put that  into place so of the 1.7 1.8 that's available   each year 10% is our Max allotment that can  be put towards maintenance to which the design   Council has made that recommendation so we've  maxed out maintenance under that fund as well council member Johnson thanks mayor I also  appreciate the comments of the speaker um I   do want to highlight I was the council member that  made the motion for the 2% and it's um it's been   very beneficial in engaging our community while  Arts is something that I think many will see if   they hated to cut anything that might be the thing  to cut um we have seen historically not only at   the state level but uh also here that's a mistake  to make arts is a part of not only quality of life   but crime reduction it gives opportunities for U  folks to engage in art in ways that are permanent   and if we are looking at cutting Arts we're making  permanent decisions for a temporary issue because   then we'd be Happ to ask artists to go back on  facilities that are already built and try to   figure out how they can add art to it and part of  the ordinance change was involving artists at the   beginning working with Architects and construction  firms to ensure that art could be incorporated   seamlessly in above ground facilities so when  you have your new city buildings they will have   beautiful artwork architecture is a part of that  as well but I think it would be a mistake for us   to look at cutting that again everyone's looking  for something to cut but art adds so much to our   community it adds so much to our local economy  and I challenge anyone when you go to a city if   you go to a City full of simple brick buildings  that don't have artwork or color uh are you you   going to remember that is that someplace that  you want to stay is that someplace you want to   continue to visit the places that you go today is  that what you look for or do you see art and when   we go to various conferences when I go on personal  vacations and trips I go look to see what the art   looks like and how much of that Community was  involved and especially when you go to places   where the cultural art that you see and experience  matches the community that surrounds it it's one   of those things that you want to go see it's one  of those things that adds to make a city great   and again if we look at cutting that even for one  two or 3 years then we'll have permanent buildings   that are constructed without this beautiful  artwork that we're not going to go back and add to   later I can tell you that won't happen it has to  happen on the front end and the opportunities that   it provides all in our community think about the  young people you go look at the Jackie Robinson   Pavilion those weren't all adults those were  Elementary School students that had an opportunity   because the city saw value in art the 2% for the  Arts was a really big deal because local artists   had always wanted to do more in our community and  then we codified that in municipal code and it's   there the money is there to beautify the things  that we are building um when you look at the parks   that we have built the Chester i Lewis Park all  of these things have beautiful art that tells the   story of wi it's all that makes our city better  and as we look at potentially having an option   to cut that out I think we would be making a huge  mistake and especially with what we have going now   when we look at the U Water Treatment Plant former  council member Brian fry and I served on that one   of the things we said was we didn't want like a  plain white building out there we at least wanted   a splash of color and you see it you drive by you  see a blue building and it may not seem like a   lot to everyone else but between the blue building  and the art installations that are coming even our   water treatment plant has art it has things that  people can enjoy walking by on the on the bike   and walk path it has things that you can enjoy  when you ride by and if you happen to be one of   those folks that likes to walk a few miles like I  do a day you can walk by there and enjoy that in   person and really get to see what that art means  to the community how it ties in with the water   in our Aviation Heritage when you walk through  the clouds that are be installed art is just too   important to our community to look at potentially  cutting that and while I appreciate the suggestion   as we're looking for areas to cut it continues  to be important to fund Arts as a form of crime   prevention as a form of quality of life and  it's important to our economy as well member   tutle thank you well said um I would applaud if it  would be appropriate um I am a huge supporter of   the Arts I've mentioned that from this bench more  times than I can count I'm a proud member of the   Arts Council board of directors and will continue  to be a champion for the Arts we passed a cultural   arts strategic plan and I committed from this  bench that I would not only P vote to pass the   plan but I would be an avid supporter to make sure  the plan came to fruition and that will not change   um I completely agree with everything my colleague  said but I would just like to add on that you know   even though public art doesn't generate Revenue  public art inspires other artists it inspires   young people young talent to want to stay in our  community hopefully to engage in the other Arts   industries that do generate Revenue we know  that Arts means business in Witchita we did   our economic and prosperity study and it clearly  showed the vibrancy that Arts not only brings as   a culture but also the economic imp that has  almost 3,000 full-time equivalent jobs in our   community every year because of the Arts industry  if we cut out public art that may be the Gateway   for people to become an emerging artist or  want to experience our other art activities   in our community so I certainly am going to  continue to be a champion for arts and wiah   thank you Lindsay I have a follow-up question  we see a lot of murals around Witchita uh who   pays for those murals do we have a Catal L of  the murals um because that's a lot of public   art people see that um as they driving as they're  driving by or even stop by uh great question the   city does have a pretty significant collection of  murals within our city property um but majority of   maybe the murals you ref referring to are in the  private sector so those are completely funded uh   by the private sector on private property the  prer art program in discussion is really just   infrastructure built on city property itself  so the city does not support or subsidize   any murals or public art in the private sector  which we have a robust public art collection   I would say as a community between the other  collections that exist like all Rich has a great   art collection at the University but maybe what  you're referring to if I'm uh interpreting your   question correctly would be private sector for  instance the grain elevator that we see in North   which sh really beautiful by Armando um Min haris  I did ask him um do we have opportunities to do   major murals so I understand that um the water  treatment plant is new um but maybe folks that   are on the east side Southside north side of town  may never go to that water treatment plant and it   will only possibly be uh seen by those who are in  Northwest Witchita uh whereas if you had murals   that more people would be able to see from as they  drive by to work to school have we ever thought   about how we could instead of using those two that  2% for actual building type of artwork but more   CommunityWide art um kind of like a 10-part answer  here so I'll try to get through it uh the design   Council makes the allocations or recommendations  for funding for projects as they're based in the   CIP so they really are only entertaining the  projects that are already listed um not to say   that there aren't other opportunities to to apply  that funding uh but that's been our historical   practice since the ordinance was adopted in 2019  so still relatively new um I want to say 2022 was   the first time and that was when I started with a  city it was the first time we were really applying   it to um the overall use of the CIP so um if there  are projects coming up that we think have a great   public gain those are the ones that the design  Council typically typically looks at the water   treatment facility which was allocated before my  employment so I can't really speak to its origin   but my interpretation is given its placement  to the SED County Zoo which is the largest   attraction in the State uh that was why the design  Council had particular interest in putting art on   that project had it been in another location it  might not have been considered uh but knowing   that there's a major utility going next to the  largest attraction in the state there was special   consideration at that time uh to allocate funding  for that specifically um when it comes to private   property that's not something we typically  entertain not to say that we can't um the 2%   uh is greatly appreciated and well utilized for  the projects that do receive it um but just like   every sector the cost of uh installation continues  to grow up if we were to apply that funding for   a grain elevator mural in particular that would  be one project that could potentially be funded   in any given year so could it be utilized yes  um it's not something that the design Council   has entertained in my tenure necessarily member  Tuttle thank you um just a question a comment and   then a question um art the art the F the funds  that we allocate is for it's Capital it's not in   the operating budget correct yeah okay um and then  do other communities our size peer cities that we   always like to compare ourselves to do they also  have funds allocated for public art yes yes thank   you thank you Lindsay city manager Leon I think  you were going to address the second portion of   that yes I I I hope some of the confusion comes  from the really the naming of this project the   property uh that is being um renovated is city  property it's not owned by the Hyatt it's the   connection between the convention center and the  Hyatt um it's extremely dated it dis discourages   potential tenants of the property from looking  at us in fact many I I have received anecdotal   information from visit witcha that many Meeting  Planners have really stopped considering our   facility just as they walk through the meeting  space uh in the prominade this would upgrade   carpets paint and then also carry the upgrade to  Bob Brown so you'd have kind of this seamless um   renovated area this is in lie of us making  substantial uh improvements uh and possibly   expansion expanding Bob Brown we're just trying  to keep us from losing more business especially to   Overland Park and other uh convention facilities  in the state we at some point we know we have to   do something more for our conventions but right  now this is one way a lowcost way for us to be   able to uh at least hold on and maybe um be a  little more successful in getting business um or   conventions and meetings into our um Convention  Center well we're in the topic of that specific   area so we're talking about Century 2 and then  Bob Brown Expo the square building rectangular um   can you also address in the CIP um the money  allocated for improvements or specifically   deferred maintenance to for instance the old  or former Central Library um Mark can you help me yes maam May if I understand your question  correctly it's what allocations do we have in   the CIP for the old libr library for maintenance  of the old library uh I think that the plan is to   fund that out of general maintenance funds that  we allocate to the public works department um   I'm I'm not sure exactly how much we have in with  that looking real quick but we typically have an   annual allocation for them for a variety of City  buildings and uh my understanding is that they   will prioritize that money and allocate some to  the library for any improvements needed there I   know the library improvements that I've heard  could be fairly substantial I don't know that   there's funding in that allocation for the entire  amount of improvements that could be contemplated   there but that would probably be the funding s  source for anything that they did initially at least I know that that is a a priority  in terms of again we have a leaking roof   that started small that continued to grow  deferred maintenance so I I just want to   make sure that again uh that is something  that is is addressed I'm looking for my   Public Works colleagues but the roof is  being addressed this fiscal year and is   currently I believe it's either been bid  out or it's in the final stages it's being   contracted but the roof is an already funded  project and in the works for this fiscal year thank you we'll continue with public comment my name is Robert gamper I live  at 1353 North Force vi Street West wah uh   um looking at the issue that we have with budgets  and so forth I think not only affects the city of   wiah but also each of us individually especially  with cost increase and so forth we've seen over   the last couple of years I'd like to bring to  attention what I think part of the problem is   in my community where I live in 2022 10 houses  were sold in the entire subdivision of those 10   houses uh all of them were assessed and appraised  for 2023 property taxes below substantially below   what they sold for in 2023 that resulted in a loss  of Revenue just to the city here of 1,036 $30 okay   in property taxes for 10 houses in 2024 those  same 10 houses eight of them were s praed and   assessed below what they sold for in 2022 that  affected again lost revenue for the city from   property taxes in the same subdivision in 2023  seven houses were sold in my subdivision four   of those were sold or praise and assess at values  below what they sold for I purchased my property   moving from out of state in 2019 and my appraisal  the first year of 2020 was above what I paid for   the house okay which is in violation of two  statutes in the state of Kansas I have thought   this numerous times okay not only that but in  each residential property there's a condition   rating okay my house from the beginning  for five years was had a condition value   a CDU guide guideline condition value that  didn't exist I finally got that corrected   going through the board of tax approval  and lowered my assess value on my house by $16,800 okay for this year 2024 to give you  an idea in the same subdivision there are six   houses that have seed CDU conditions  that are incorrect by the guidelines   again violation of two statutes the total loss  revenues for the state of Witchita from Eight   houses pardon me eight uh 14 houses sold in my  subdivision in two years and five six houses   that have uh condition ratings incorrect  has been 49 over $4,900 to be exact $4,900 $366 so what I'm proposing is what the problem  we've got in budgets relates to one Department   within this sedu County which happens to be the  Appraiser's office okay I think that this city   council needs to get together with the sedu County  Commissioners and tell them they need to correct   the situation God knows how much revenue the city  of Witchita has lost because of inaccurate unfair   and unequitable property tax assessments by  the appraisers office in the county okay it's   absolutely ridiculous I pointed out just if you  look at it just a total of 14 houses over a period   of two years while Revenue how much is that total  for the entire area Sedwick County and which saww   I think that it's absolutely ridiculous  that something isn't done Statewide the   other thing I'll bring up is it seems that  there's a law a rule in this state which   only affects 14 states in the entire United  States in the state of Kansas any business   who buys or leases equipment or brings it in  from out of state is not charge property taxes   on that it's totally abated there's only 14 other  states or 14 total States including Kansas that   that's done in I think we need to be talking to  our Congressional people at the state level and   more importantly probably to the uh Sedwick County  Appraiser's office to correct the situations that   exist they're unfair and totally unequitable to  the majority of of people live in this city and   into in this state uh it's not going to if that  got done I think we wouldn't be talking about a   problem with the deficit for 2026 for the city of  witcho realistically it's I fought this issue for   five years since I've been here and I can tell  you right now the situation is unequitable and   the assessor's office is not willing to change  anything okay thank you and and and it's uh they   break state or county or city part me State  statutes in two instances anyway that's my   comments and so forth thank you Robert okay thank  you council member Glascock Robert I just want to   thank you for reminding us here that our budget  does affect your budget it certainly does okay I   mean everything we do here is an extension of  your budget thank you for that reminder and I   think that's good for anybody and it becomes more  critical I'm retired okay I'm going to fix income   and I think that affects those people and low  uh uh income uh earners within in the state or   within the city all that all affects that and so  forth like that but I wish somebody would take   the initiative you know in an office that where  they're elected to do something about specifically   property taxes in this County I think it's absurd  it's absolutely ridiculous thank you thank you   Robert Mark I know that this is not obviously a  city Department it is a SED County department or   SED County overseas it can you um help Community  understand maybe the differences and how we can   um move forward in in helping really I think  it's having a conversation about um how to help   our individuals who may not understand how to um  have a reappraisal of their property not that you   did not rob her but I'm talking about uh for the  public to know uh I'm not an expert on the county   of course or County statutes impacting the county  but I think I can explain how the property tax uh   model works the County Appraiser is required by  State Statute to Value property in SED County   that's his statutory Duty now how he does that or  whether he does that correctly or appropriately is   not for me to say obviously ly but he does have  the statutory duty to do that in fact I think   he has to review every property at least every  four years uh I would agree with what he said   anecdotic I I am aware that there are properties  that often seem to be valued by the county for   tax purposes less than their market value again  some of that may be a function of the fact that   they're not assessed every year and don't move  as dynamically as the real estate market does   but like I said all of that is done by the county  it's not really within the purview of the city of   witto or the city council to get involved in  that I I don't think obviously that plays a   role in what we do because the taxes that we Levy  are based on the valuation determined by the by   the County Appraiser did that answer the question  mayor thank you Mark we'll continue with public comment my name is Sharon O'Neal I'm at  400 South Roosevelt and I want to start   just by thanking all of you for your time and  attention after attending this city council   meeting I realize you really have a tough job  um I brought this active aging uh uh article   uh Just for kicks U it shows that a group of  people have been meeting in Lynwood park for   over 50 years to play soccer this article speaks  of the camaraderie socializing and friendships   that have developed despite cultural and language  barriers by playing soccer together in a pickup   game at Lynwood Park this is an example of  how Parks make a city a nice place to live   I play pickle ball at many different parks  and recreation centers throughout Witchita I   play a lot of pickle ball and I'm still really  glad that Witchita scrapped the large pickle   ball complex in south of Witchita because it  was projected to cost over $6 million this   money needs to be spent on green infrastructure  within the city I've observed how important the   recreation centers are to the local neighborhoods  even providing all day activity programs for kids   during the summer this seems to be a crucial  community service when Child Care is so scarce   wiah does not need to spend $250,000 on a  consultant to give them another Parks plan   I would encourage everyone to read the 2016  wiah parks recreation and open space plan   which contains excellent research there's nothing  extravagant and it doesn't say spend money on this   or that it's just good research I would also  encourage everyone to read the NASA 2022 plan   it's also excellent information that's done to  protect witas vulnerable populations in the city   city center in Southwest Witchita NASA reports  that Witchita will see four times as many days   of heat over 100° by 2050 and extreme heat is  the leading cause of weather related deaths plus   heat mitigation projects are eligible for federal  justice 40 funding Parks have not caused the $23   million shortfall that witch will experience over  the next three years what the fee structure for   what is the fee structure for developers putting  in a subdivision to cover all the planning costs   to include things as zoning traffic engineering  fire departments Etc when is the last time that   that fee structure was raised does Witchita send  people to other cities to see how these cities   maintain their parks and infrastructure wiah has  made a lot of poor decisions to include closing   clap Golf Course when it was bringing in a lot of  Revenue then renting that building to a dis golf   entrepreneur for $300 a month rather than even  renting that building for fair market value wiah   does not need to spend $250,000 for Consultants to  give it another Park plan please spend that money   on the NASA heat mitigation efforts or reopening  the closed clap Golf Course or making Clap into a   park it is a Charming space I believe the cost  of converting clap to a park would be minimal   fix a few bridges over the streams and add a small  area near the parking lot for playground equipment   I ride my B bike on the Red Bud TR Trail and the  river trails and I have ridden the trails in clap   on my bike minor fixes to a few bridges in clap  would make it another high asset to the city it is   shocking to hear mayor woo refer refer to closing  poor quality Parks when Witchita needs more green   space has the W city council even visited all of  the parks in Witchita many of the top tier cities   spend $200 or more per capita on their Parks wiah  spend 7 $ per capita please spend the $250,000   consultant fee on the parks we have or providing  shade trees to atrisk areas of wiah I would like   a promise from the city council and the city  manager that no Park will be closed in Witchita   without first putting it to a vote of the citizens  it seems too many decisions are made according to   what developers want rather than what the citizens  want but we the citizens end up paying for it   thank you for your time and attention council  member hoisel thank you mayor uh just a couple   of updates about clap Park um first the the  person who is doing the the rental there he   also helps maintain a lot of the area around  Cloud Park so he's up there organizing um Creek   cleanups uh taking care of dead Limbs and whatnot  throughout there as well so he's doing a lot of   good work um we also are implementing um the  clap Park plan which uh incl includes and all   access playground for up to and including children  who have disabilities so at the end of this year   we'll have a nice big playground going in just  south of the clubhouse there um in addition we've   also done a number of repairs on the bridges there  and trails we're going to be having Cross Country   meets there from uh through witto State um this  golf is going going well there it's almost twice   as many people going through they playing disc  golf as ever went through there and played golf   so we got a lot of uh great things going on at  Cloud Park here in the next year thank you for   that information I had no idea thank you Shannon  um I am going to make a few comments first and   foremost I don't believe that fear mongering or  division help our community never have I said I   was closing Parks I did say direct quote I asked  at last meeting and the previous one that during   the CIP uh process for a master plan that we need  to look at quality over quantity my question again   to staff at the previous meeting was that the  proposal only looked at enhancements and expansion   of the park system and I said we need to also  consider all options including elimination if   we can have better quality parks there are 146  parks in our system and not a single developer   or a single individual has asked me to close a  park uh so again that's misinformation number   two out of the 146 parks that we have I would  like to know anyone who's visited all 146 because   there is one in particular that as I was doing my  research doesn't even have a sign that says is a   park but isn't included in the 146 and that that  specific Park is located in East Witchita and if   you look at our current website it says District  to land 11608 East Central Avenue witch Kansas 67206 there's not a single parking spot  for someone to utilize said Park there's   no signage to dig to designate that it's a park  therefore I would beg to differ that there is   already 146 parks that are at high quality and  I appreciate your comments regarding clap as   I've mentioned I do believe that we need to make  greater emphasis on enhancements to make quality   Park systems and specifically some of the parks  that need more improvements but I don't believe   that quantity equates quality council member  Tuttle thank you um thank you for your comments   I'd be happy to chat with you more about  that property um I don't think it's actually   designated as a park but the board of Park  trustees or the Park Board of Commissioners   owns the land um I've been approached several  times since I've been un Council by folks who   would like to acquire that land and and we're  absolutely not interested in doing that we   haven't decided exactly how that land will be  programmed um waiting to see on need but I've   had some meetings with key department heads to  see if there could be some future use for that   um quite possibly some new mixed use something  maybe we haven't done in the past in witch so   that's not actually designated as a park it's just  owned by the park Board of Commissioners then we   would like the website to reflect that because  it's still part of the map and it actually shows   as one of the Parks when you look at it in  alphabetical order we'll continue with public comment hello my name is toaz uh my address  is 11617 W 18 Street North my uh district is   jv's District uh the reason I'm here is because I  went to a parking meeting today this morning and   there was no parking meeting it got postponed or  cancelled or whatever I'm wondering if any other   those parking meetings are going to be postponed  and canceled I had never heard of not one thing   one thing in anything last year mean before  last year about hey we're going to paying the   park in the downtown district I went to a bicycle  Exchange in Delo and talked to the man talked to   the owner there he didn't know anything about  the parking plan and he was pissed because he   knows for a fact why would anybody drive to  deleno and pay 2% more sales tax to find a   ballpark plus two bucks to park in front of this  business when I can go anywhere in this city go to   any bicycle shop in this city not to pay to park  at all so my opinion is like this this is the   most business destroying thing I've ever heard of  personally I mean I've gone to cities and there's   closed shops in downtown and you wonder why  that is probably because you got to pay to park   in those cities probably like Lawrence you got to  pay to park so you know why would I go to Oldtown   and go to Old Chicago in Oldtown pay to park why  would I go to the salon my wife go to salon in   Oldtown and pay to park when she go to any Salon  in the city of wiah we can go we can go down to   21st in Tyler and go to that old town I mean go  to that old Chicago there I mean any restaurant   barbecue restaurants I spent a th000 bucks a year  at least in downtown witchville I love downtown   witch I'm not going to lie to you you know but  I refuse to pay to park for it because I don't   need to pay to park to go to any other shop  or any other business in this city there is no   other shopping center there's no other Mall  there's no other place in the city of witw you got   to pay the park except downtown witto is how you  guys going to do it and you don't even know how   much it's going to be is it going to be two bucks  it's going to be 10 bucks it's going to be 10 five   bucks how much money is it going to be guys you  guys got no clue I have no clue I don't think this   fell has a clue you know and how are you going  to pay the park is gonna be is going be Coins   app you know card and like you said how safe is  it going to be because when you put your card in   he might get it stolen who knows you know and  you know it's just to me it's going to destroy   businesses it's going to destroy them 100% so that  is my huge concern about downtown witto we spent   so much money in downtown witto we have spent at  least at least a 100 million bucks since 2000 in   downtown witch the waterw pro program the hant  everything centry 2 all this money we have spent   in downtown witto all this money is going to go  to waste if we can't get people to come downtown   because who knows how much money is gonna cut pay  the par who knows so you got to have transparency   on this you gotta I mean I mean we got to have  sites or something that we could see actually see   how much money pays to park on a certain day and  a certain time for a certain event not just well   I might have Dynamic pricing and maybe down the  road we might have it something some information   is what I'm saying so we don't get surprised when  we go downtown maybe I'm going to go to a Thunder   game and I got to park in a lot and Bam I got to  pay 10 bucks how do I know it was going to be 10   bucks you know maybe down the street it might be  five maybe down the street it might be one I don't   know we need to know this stuff as a citizen  of witto this is something that should have   been talked about like I said last year when you  guys were voting on it it should have been talked   about hey how much money is this really going  to be how many business are really going to be   affected negatively probably you know and include  deleno of all places where you already got to pay   99.5% of sales tax because of a ballpark to go  shop at any of those stores any those restaurants   already and now you got to pay to park in them and  I'm going to tell you straight up it's people are   not going to park in Douglas they're going to  park in those residential areas down there and   those people are going to be mad because now they  can't access in front of their house because all   these people are going to be parked in front of it  you know that's what's going to affect that's real   right there that is absolutely real stuff so you  know that's all I got to say thank you very much   for your time council member Glascock thank you um  I appreciate your comments I mean the reason that   today's parking meeting was rescheduled was that  uh Troy could come and present before the council   and so sorry if that was not communicated that is  the reason that that was uh rescheduled so um I   did want to just add one comment I have expressed  concerns about the parking plan but I will also   stand by the statement that Troy's mentioned here  is that no parking is free parking um whether   you're going to Walmart Walmart is still paying  for that parking lot um and that's through fees   when you're going there they're hidden fees  because they're associated in the pricing but   regardless of where you're going you're paying  for parking it just may look different may not   be as Direct in terms of that and it may be  a hidden fee as well so I think when we're   having this conversation we can talk about how  we're paying for it I think that's a legitimate   conversation of whether it's through property tax  whether through sales tax whether it's through   user fees someone is paying for parking regardless  of where you park in the city whether that's   downtown whether that's at a shopping center out  west whether that's a big lot Center somebody   is paying for parking whether that's you or the  taxpayer that is the question we're GNA have up here vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor  I would also just like to apologize that   that wasn't communicated um very well but  I appreciate you taking the opportunity   to come come down here and share  uh your thoughts and concerns as   I mentioned before that is absolutely  what we need to hear so thank you so much we'll continue with public comment good afternoon city council my name  is Christopher Paro I am president of Delena   United I'm here to speak about the parking  issue uh in 2001 the City established the   deleno revitalization plan and deleno overlay  it was developed after extensive discussions   and collaboration between the city and the  stakeholders in Delena one of the first   projects executed at the direction of the plan  was building the roundabout and clock tower at   Douglas and Sycamore narrowing Douglas between  senica and McLean to one lane in each Direction   and adding angled parking along Douglas one  major aspect of that project was keeping   the public street parking unpaid for 23 years  that decision combined with others in the plan   has helped make deleno a Haven for locally owned  small businesses that start grow and prosper in   deleno we have other projects pending such as the  linear Park along the old railroad Corridor which   is currently under construction and hopefully  will be done in the very near future just north   of Douglas and replicating the streetscaping on  Douglas east of cica to the west of cica all the   way out to Meridian now this paid parking plan  will change the goalposts established with the   deleno community it violates the agreement  the city made with the deleno community it   will undermine the work we've done as a community  to make Delena what it is today and will hinder   current and future efforts to expand upon that  success aren't the established agreements made   with the community just as important as  any new agreements made with the vendor   this parking plan looks to bring in about 3  million in Revenue but at what cost with all   the outrage and people refusing to come downtown  I'd suggest that the losses of the business in the   central Corp and potential relocation or closure  of businesses could more than offset the amount   of Revenue projected also I think people behind  the plan are underestimating the degree to which   people will go to avoid paying for parking when  there's a game or event at Riverfront Stadium the   residential streets west of it see increased  illegal parking issues blocking sidewalks   fire hydrants driveways parking illegally  on private lots and numerous other issues   all so that people can avoid a $5 fee to park  in one of the adjacent lots to the stadium the   numbers mentioned in the discussion previously  suggest that maybe there's too much City own parking maybe the city should look at selling  some of the parking lots so that their cost of   maintaining what they maintain what they keep is  lower rather than increasing parking throughout   the entire core to cover the cost of what they  have that maybe is only utilized a third of the   time back to delay now we have tiffs and CS which  rely on sales tax revenue to pay for the stadium   how will we do that when the customers stop coming  to deleno are we going to default on paying those bonds and one additional thing deleno  is not downtown deleno is deleno stop   including deleno in downtown plans thank you we'll continue with public comment good afternoon mayor vice mayor council city  manager Jeff Flur president of gy wall partnership   in downtown wial 505 East Douglas Avenue I just  wanted to come forward to say a couple things   one is we're committed to work with you uh we're  a city that's growing uh I remember when Intrust   Bank Arena opened uh probably a good 12 16 months  before it actually opened for the Grand Event I   think Brad Paisley was the the concert that night  there was a lot of anxiety about parking uh how is   it going to work where are people going to park  is it walkable downtown and I think what we've   seen is that over time people have feared out the  ecosystem of downtown Lots were identified we even   put together a system working with the city on  where to park where you could tell immediately   where there were parking spaces and what it would  cost for those parking spaces so all that said is   we have figured out difficult moments like this  before uh we're resilient as a people uh and it's   all also evident that we're growing as a city and  as a downtown uh the thing that we liked about   what was being proposed and is being proposed  is that it creates an infrastructure where we   can manage parking right now we don't have that  infrastructure uh and we need it desperately uh   as you it's already been mentioned about biomed  as I've worked with the biomedical in Phoenix   and in Houston as we as we've been working  on the biomed not to single at that use but   just to give an example parking management  is key to the operations now it's key to   residential it's key to the restaurants downtown  and the service Industries it's key to all of it   so part of this is looking at how is it that we  take steps forward and I encourage us to continue   to move forward because this is really important  as we work on not only existing projects but ones   that we have as prospects as well so again how  is it we have that infrastructure and then how   do we learn from the infrastructure itself so  as Troy has said if there's certain areas or   evenings where we know there's high demand  how do we have that system respond to that   if there's not that high demand how do we back off  of it um and I think that's what an intelligent   system allows us to do which again we can't today  so we're committed to work with you one of the   things I wanted to leave you with is that I got an  email from a downtown board member this last week   and it simply stated Jeff everything is working  and what I mean by that is I called him and I   said well Larry Larry Weber was the individual  I said Larry what is it he says this morning I   was out walking dogs at 7:30 on Douglas and market  and he said there were students coming out of all   these different residential units in Scrubs with  backpacks walking to the osteopathic school so I   say i' say this be encouraged by the things that  we're doing it's working there have been moments   like this where we've had challenges of how do you  take all the input and then get to a plan we can   do that and I think the fact that we're having  the engagement is important but we also have to   move forward as well so again downtown's committed  we've been a part of the conversations the board   has uh different aspects of the partnership  as well so again we want to continue to be   that partner but also just really encourage that  we take steps forward uh because the health of   our downtown but also the health of our community  we've heard a lot about growth we need to enable   the growth not only downtown but the surrounding  neighborhoods as well so that's our commitment to   you and we appreciate the opportunity to be here  today just to be able to voice that as well thank you thank you Jeff we'll continue public comment I see nobody else from the public um want to  say thank you to the nine individuals again who   spoke during public comment um parking parking  parking Parks taxes CIP cow toown parking and   parking um I just want to say thank you so  very much for voicing your concerns you're   being heard um you're also heard when you email  us when you contact us and we're trying to find   better Solutions and when we can talk about them  and we do that from this bench um again we get   to a better solution and so I'm grateful to my  colleagues the six individuals who are again   trying to make the best decision moving forward uh  we ask a lot of questions of Staff because again   we want to know because Community wants to know  and as I see a more engaged Witchita in giving   us feedback and giving us comments I always ask  that you can always directly contact us and we   are here to listen to your concerns while at  the same time knowing that we have difficult   uh conversations that will need to continue be  having first whether it's here on the bench or   as we continue talking with Community because  we do have a budget deficit and priorities still   need to be how we move forward and we want to see  more growth Jeff so I hope that Witchita continues   growing uh but the growth rate is not stellar and  so we need to have more growth and the way we have   more growth is if we have more job opportunities  it really comes down to that and so our priorities   from the community survey again showed that Crime  Streets Economic Development and while not in that   survey homelessness were those four things that  you really want us to focus on because we're   not doing a great job on but we can do better just  like Parks libraries rec centers I appreciate that   people love our system that helps with quality  of life and we will make intentional efforts   and dedicated investments into those things that  help all individuals in our community have a great   quality of life living here in our community so  we appreciate that people spoke at last week's uh   public hearing regarding the budget and also today  during the second hearing there will be one more   opportunity which will be next week on Tuesday at  9:00 a.m. as we adopt not just the budget but also   we'll have a conversation regarding um capturing  the increases in taxes from um assess valuation so   the revenue neutral is another thing that we will  have to vote on it's two separate votes and again   I'm really mindful as one of the nine individuals  spoke about taxes um because it is difficult um as   everything continues to rise in costs including  when we have projects um like the library system   that we're trying to uh improve and even those  costs have increased and so we have to be mindful   uh that the key thing here is that we have to  maintain what we have and maintenance has to   be one of our uh guiding principles um because we  have invested in an asset and we need to know how   we're going to move forward and continue investing  in the maintenance of it so that it can continue   to be that positive um asset in our community so  thank you all uh for that I don't I will bring it   back to the bench if there are further comments  but there will be no binding action uh regarding   the budget until next week council member glop  yeah thank you and thank you for the public   engagement I just wanted to make a few comments  before the 20th because I know that's when we're   going to have to make tougher decisions from this  bench as well in terms of uh first off I want to   thank Bob and staff for uh this proposed budget uh  follow-up issues has been a very helpful document   um I will be interested in moving forward with  some of the acceleration of implementation of   things we're looking at 26 27 and 28 um I there's  not a page number on here so I can't really speak   to the page number but there's Concepts included  in the 2025 propos budget tier one and tier two   um I'd be interested in moving forward with all  of those except um the library materials prior   prioritizing spending I think we should uh fully  fund that so that would remove a 100,000 out of   that 1.1 million but I think that we should still  make sure that we're prior prioritizing spending   for our library system um there's also a few pages  later there's the concepts not currently included   in the 2025 proposed budget tier 3B um I'd be  interested even if we um move forward on a few   of these and I think uh the 2025 proposed um tiers  that uh is listed by staff actually halfs these   already so it looks that you know maintaining  existing service levels in park maintenance it's   only reducing that by 250,000 these are already  open positions these are already open positions   in Street Maintenance and uh my understanding  and Bob you can correct me if I'm wrong that   there would still be open positions remaining  because we're not taking the full allocation 2026   so it's not eliminating positions it's not even  them uh cutting off half the open positions it's   just freezing positions a little bit but there're  still we're we're not hiring those already so um   I'd be interested in moving some of those that  could accelerate some of our savings by more   than in some estimates if you add those together  between1 million and $3 million I think that shows   a good faith effort that we're trying to make  a lot of these challenging decisions early but   it's also not going to hurt service levels we're  just implementing these a little bit quicker um   than what we had already so I'll be interested in  having that discussion on the 20th and I imagine   that's when we're going to be actually making  the substantial changes to the budget um the   sales tax component was also very interesting  I would like to just maybe promote that to the   city as well it says that the city of wiaw has  never had a city Only sales tax is a quote from   here of the first class cities 24 of the 26 have  a city Only sales tax and so we're one of the two   that do not um currently I know that there's  a listing of how much revenue that would bring   into the city if we were to do even one tenth of  a percent would um in 2025 bring $8.9 million in   increased Revenue to the city one qu% um would be  22.3 million and just 1% would be $89 million of   an increased budget which is pretty substantial  and pretty sizable so I'm very appreciative of   this um increasing property taxes increase in the  M Lev is off the table but this would give voters   the option uh to look at what size of government  they want what services they want fulfilled and   give voters to say in the process as well so this  I think is probably the most helpful document if   we can make sure to promote this and then one last  thing that I have in terms of Street Maintenance   options which was also proposed on here is it  says staff estimates um and this has to do with   the dirp street program that staff estimates that  this would pave approximately 40 Lane miles during   the 10-year period so I flipped over to the next  page it's about three pages later and I think this   is a very interesting number to pull out for  everybody here number two an increase in the   remaining acceptable life of the city's existing  pave Network by 14,000 Lane miles a year or 28% is   expected by 2062 if the funding for the street  maintenance program is increased this would be   a question for staff that's if that money was  reallocated from the dirp streets program towards   the street maintenance program we could increase  by 14,000 miles over this course over the course   of this period I believe that's what it says  so I think that's pretty sizable I think this   should consider is that we could better serve  our community by 14,000 miles over the 40   miles um that are presented and there's also a  difference between the lane miles verse the um   actual increase in existing pave network but I  think looking at 14,000 increase of maintenance   is pretty sizable it should be something that we  consider um when we're looking at the 2020 2025   budget as well so those are my comments council  member Johnson thank you mayor um I wanted to   thank all of those publicly who have engaged  around uh parking uh as a council and as a   government there's always a lot of things that we  do that uh folks don't always catch on or uh see   in our agendas one of those uh we recently had the  tree canopy program and I received way more emails   about that than I thought I would uh even given  the NASA data and study still think it's good   but it took a lot of explaining to catch Folks up  who may not have heard us talking about that over   the last couple years or vice mayor ballor talking  about that and then us implementing it um parking   is one of those things as well that we have been  talking about and uh maybe some folks missed it   and I've appreciated all the engagement um I'm  a little different so I like a lot of Engagement   even if that's opposition uh I was an activist  before being on Council so to me it's a good   sign those wins are good we saw that during Co we  had an uptick and engagement um but I do want to   highlight when things come out um normally that's  the first thing we want to see we want to hear the   engagement and if there are some ideas that folks  have to make improvements I love the Pensacola um   example I actually looked it up uh right after  the speaker got done talking great stuff that   actually sounds like what we were talking about  with the current parking plan but step one was   always making sure sure folks understood that come  next year there would be paid parking downtown um   that has solicited a lot of Engagement I hope that  everyone continues to stay engaged in that and go   to those meetings and when we have those evening  meetings show up there as well not only to give   your thoughts and how business can be impacted  but also to hear the remainder of that plan   um engagement is never a bad thing and I'm I'm  grateful for that so I wanted to thank everybody   who has engaged whether it's online emailing us or  showing up today or to those meetings and who will   come to the Future meetings and then just going  into um next week on the 20th I'm still in full   support of the dirt roads program that previous  Council has approved because of the benefit it   has in the folks in District uh one and other  districts as well who've complained that their   roads aren't paved and uh it would be unfair in  those lower income areas for special assessment   those are pretty expensive and former councils  had the idea thanks to the leadership of council   member whole to look at Paving those dirt roads  and throughout the community and district one   doesn't even have the most dirt roads uh I think  district 6 or District FL does so those benefits   to those community members are great we spend uh  staff time going and sprinkling those dirt roads   and all of that and we won't have to do that  anymore kids around playgrounds at schools um   in lower income areas will be able to see those uh  benefits of having a paved road so I think that's   good and we should stick to that and then also  as we talk about potential sales tax versus Mill   Levy sales tax is one of those things that I think  can be good if we do it right if we truly engage   the community and see what those needs or wants  are but if we look at using sales tax for ongoing   operations that could be a real bad sign for us  if we're creating uh positions based upon what   we think we'll get in revenues from sales tax and  then we actually go into a recession as a country   we'll see those revenues drop and then we have  some decisions to make on letting people go or not   rather than using the sales tax for infrastructure  investment which would be a one-time expense like   in Trust Bank Arena also would like to encourage  the public to consider over the next year we've   already set the mill Levy this year for what it  is but over the next year A M Levy is a property   tax and if we were to look at increasing that  over the next year again not next Tuesday uh by   one mill or two that means an additional $5 to10  million coming into our our budget to maintain   service levels so all the things that we talked  about today that we really want to see whether   it's enforcement of things or investment in public  safety um that would be funds that could help us   out quite a bit I know that it's not popular but  for the cost of as I continue to say one pizza a   year you could help out maintain service levels  again for every $100,000 of valuation one meal   increases $11.50 annually so if we did one meal  that's $50 for a house that's worth $100,000 if   we did two Mills that would be $23 for a house  that's worth $200,000 or about that amount there   as we talk about things not being off of the table  we need to have a discussion about all of that   going forward but for next Tuesday I'm hoping that  we get more engagement around our budget I will be   um I can tell you now I'm supportive of taking  in the full amount of the revenue neutral rate   anything that we take less than that will put  us in some really uh tough binds going forward   previous councils have put money into the  reserve to kind of help the decision making   to be um a little easier so we wouldn't have  to make drastic decisions city manager has some   great tiered options that we've been looking at  and that uh will go into implementation to help   us as well um so again I hope that the public  will continue to engage around the budget hope   to see Folks by next Tuesday at this council  meeting and as well over the next year talking   about the type of government we want for  our community and the services that we have   we are as you've heard a few times from some staff  members catching up on maintenance we're catching   up on some of the things that the community has  wanted from us for quite some time and any cuts   to that begin to set us back and as we talk about  again maintaining what we have then we have to   look at where what we have is um I look at places  like plane view and you know we've been making   some Investments there but if we stop trying to  do additional Investments or any expansions what   will that Community say there's parts of Northeast  would you told that would say the same so some of   this is yes we need to maintain what we have  but uh quality of life is also making those   Investments and making everyone's neighborhood  a place worth living for them and that they feel   um that the city cares about them and we are  making some progress but if we start to look at   cutting back too much how long will it be before  we're in a position to make those Investments again vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor  um Bob I was just wondering if um staff   was able to review the funding  plan for irrigation for the 2025 CIP and then I have one more comment after that uh yes ma'am council member Ballard  uh I believe in your material there is   some material about golf Capital  Improvements we expanded the scope   a little bit to look at all improvements for  the golf system but obviously irrigation is   by far the pr predominant uh uh Source  in there and uh sorry I forgot to put   page numbers on these so somebody pointed  out and I trying trying to find my page here excuse me just a second okay sorry about that I want to make sure I gave  you accurate information so the the challenge in   golf is uh that our irrigation systems are  essential to protecting the revenue stream   now I don't operate the golf systems but my  interest is in the financial V Vitality of the   golf system and irrigation systems are essential  to protecting that Financial viability uh most   irrigation systems are good for 20 to 30 years  and I think in the narrative points out that   our systems are I think we have one at Auburn  Hills that's our newest one we put that in when   we built Auburn Hills which was in 1998 was when  we put the irrigation in we didn't open it until   2001 our irrigation systems are old they're past  their useful life uh We've discovered that causes   several other challenges it makes them inefficient  uh we can't Target Irrigation in areas where we'd   like to which means we over irrigate which means  we spend more on water we use huge pumps in our   irrigation system those require electricity so  we use more electricity than we're required to   and then we also spend a lot of money on repairs  because they are old so we believe that we can   obviate a lot of those expenditures with new  systems which would produce a cash flow to fund   some some of the debt service so the model that  you see is all designed to try to generate some   cash flow upfront to reduce the amount of debt  that we would need to have in order to replace   the irrigation systems in a systematic Manner and  also to produce a cash flow to retire that debt uh   in the future so again it it'd be a matter for the  council to decide whether or not they wanted to   allocate some of our uh reserves that we have from  the permanent Reserve or some of the uh potential   Surplus that general fund may have in this year  to this project that would be a policy decision   but any amounts there would reduce the capital  cost for an irrigation system another thing   we looked at is whether there was any uh Capital  Improvement program projects that could be shifted   uh to the golf system so we look primarily at Park  projects I know we talked about that a little bit   earlier today uh but there's one Park project that  was identified and that is a project that we put   for Park enhancements that's been a long-standing  project it's funded every single year uh but that   was designed initially to provide support to some  of our non-golf Park facilities obviously another   policy decision but uh if the council chose  to they could divert some of that funding in   the future for that project into to offsetting uh  golf repairs uh to our irrigation systems the golf   system throws off a surplus each year that Surplus  in the last three years has been about $700,000   a year I think that's basically attributed to our  golf manager that we hired several years ago who's   done a fantastic job but those revenue streams  have enabled us to do some Capital Improvement   projects over last couple years we have projected  that operating Revenue very conservatively in   the future at about $400,000 year which again is  about half of what uh the system has generated in   the past that would be available to Fund Golf Debt  Service as well and finally we pointed out another   option maybe for the Golf Board of Directors  to uh consider would be fee increases in the   golf system uh back when we replaced all the other  golf systems every single one of them except for   consolver was ACC companied with a fee increase  obviously another policy decision for the golf uh   Advisory Board to consider uh but that would also  provide a cash flow so that's the long story let   me get to the summary which is probably where I  should have started uh we believe that we could   fund the capital Improvement needs identified by  the golf system and irrigation systems at all four   courses and we could issue geod debt for that with  the savings from irrigation with the cash flows   generated by the operating Surplus and potentially  with a rate increase the magnitude of those will   depend on whether the council chooses to allocate  any other part projects to this Andor any reserves   but we believe there is a way forward for this  that's feasible for the golf system I should   point out one more thing uh that's and I'm sorry  for over complicating this one of the challenges   in the past has been the golf system owes The  Debt Service fund $5.7 million and that's been   longstanding uh there's been debate over the years  about whether that receivable should be written   off again it's owed to The Debt Service fund uh  might be time to consider from a policy standpoint   whether the that debt should be written off uh  from an accounting standpoint I would tell you   if it's not going to be collectible it's probably  something the city council should consider doing I   think if that happened that would free up The Debt  Service fund to be a to extend credit to the golf   system in the future which is kind of part and  partial with this plan so sorry I took soone to   answer your question but nope I appreciate it um  Bob would it be appropriate at this time to make   a motion to add the um IR the million dollars for  irrigation for 2025 in the final CIP you you could   do that today and that would give us direction  or um i' some council members have indicated they   want to handle these on the 20th so really leave  it up to you and I guess the mayor to determine   how to handle these items that will be changes  to the budget what would be most um efficient   but also help us as we move forward to next week  on on Tuesday the more you do today the easier it   is for us next week um however I'm also mindful  of the fact that it's 1:36 and you haven't had   a break and you have two public hear or two big  important appeal hearings as well so it's a matter   of your timing with the motion to recess for 10  minutes and then we could come back and have those conversations that appropriate council member  Johnson was just saying we're still on this   item we're at the end of it so after Council  discussion we could vote to receive the public   comment and then recess I do think if probably  councilman Ballard starts this there'll probably   be other motions today as well would be my own  consideration but that's fine okay so let's do   this we'll continue having the remainder of the  board is still lit regarding more comments from   sta uh from the bench after we're done  with comments we'll take a recess and   then we'll have staff recommended initiatives  that will require votes is that correct so   we'll take a break after the two remaining  council members and just a reminder there's   no motion needed to recess so you can recess  for any time without a motion so we holding off on council member Johnston thank you mayor thank you mayor I might  point out a little bit of History before I go to   my main thing history on that golf debt in  1998 uh there was a quote unquote deal made   that if the city would loan would build that golf  course and pay for it then the increased property   values of houses being on the golf course the  difference would pay back that debt um it was   never done that money was just put into the budget  years and years ago so there's a little bit of a oh it didn't happen like it was supposed to  happen put it that way so anyway that's what   I believe and uh I'm very much for the  obviously for the golf I think the city   has come up with the man city manager and  the golf has come up with a very good plan   to take care of that so I appreciate that  uh I mayor I would like to make a motion after okay fair enough we have one more council  member on the board council member hois thank   you mayor uh just a couple of things real quick  earlier we had uh the violence interrupts that   were here at the meeting um I was going to give  them a shout out they did head out um about three   hours ago when we started this item um so I I  am eager to hear um some updates as far as what   they've been able to do so far um and regards to  a sales tax I think one thing that we definitely   need need to make sure is that we're not um  we we're having exemptions for food and for   Necessities we need to make sure that we're not  going to hit people over the head um where they   need it the most make sure that we're not going  to provide any barriers towards feeding and taking   care of your family so um if we do pursue that  that is definitely something we need to square   up and the last thing is in regards to the  dirt street program it's a matter of equity   to me we have parts of our um city that is 80%  rentals certain zip codes within our district   that are or our city that's 80% rentals and  it's tough to get landlords on those places   to ever agree to um to to do the specials  to pave those streets so it is a matter of   equity to me um there's also additional savings  like council member Johnson said um a couple of   tens of thousands of dollars a year that we do  now uh spray to keep the essentially the dirt   together the dirt roads together um and we are  when we started this program it was 5 years for   us to take care of the dirt roads around schools  and that one is um especially meaningful because   that's a safety issue in regards to traffic  around the schools that's also um an issue a   safety issue with uh children breathing in all  the dirt and everything that gets cooked up in   in the air during the day so um I fully endorse  uh continuing the dirt streets program as is so   uh just figured I'd shoot out those and again  I appreciate everybody who did show up to give   some input in the budget I keep saying it it's not  our budget it's your budget it's not our city it's   your city so thank you guys for continuing to come  out and uh making your voices heard sorry one more   council member tle thank you I'm going to make  very brief comments um just for people who are new   I've said this a couple times before but thank you  to Bob for leading us through this process truly   appreciate your time and expertise um thank you to  our finance team you always do an outstanding job   answer all our questions we get to see Mark and  Elizabeth here but thanks to all your staff and   team behind you who are supporting this process  thanks for all the department heads I know they've   had to make hard decisions they've had to look  internally and see um you know where priorities   lie so that is not lost on me also thank you  to the community members especially those who   participated in the budget s imator attended the  many many Community engagement opportunities we   had and took the community survey um that's what's  driving this budget and so we appreciate your   input um I always say this will be the sixth  year I've done the budget every year I say it   where you allocate your treasure is a reflection  of your values so I will anticipate next week um   and probably lots of robust discussion this week  and then finally I just want to go on record for   one thing um the last couple meetings we've had  lots of discussions about sales tax and I've said   it from the bench twice but I'm just going to  say it again I would entertain a thought of a   sunsetted sales tax but only for Capital  Improvement programs or Capital programs   I do not believe it's in the best interest of the  city to have any kind of sales tax for operational   budget because it's not a cons consistent stream  of Revenue and there have been other communities   Across the Nation that did sales tax for operation  for police in fire they were not able to sustain   sustain the sales tax revenue they anticipated  and they actually had to let police and fire   go so just to go on record I do believe that  sunsetted sales tax projects similar to what they   do in Oklahoma City would be great for capital  projects but not for operational budget thank you you want fast vice mayor Bard um  I just forgot to mention my comment um   40% of the dirt roads are in district 6 and I  represent downtown deleno um North uh Witchita   and um it just kills me that we are still have  dirt roads in the center of the city where you   know people pass through you know often so I  really want to Advocate hard for um continuing   to uh pave our dirt roads um want to copycat the  comments of the my other colleagues that stress   the importance of it so um I would be remiss  to to not mention that because the majority or   not the majority the most of them um 40% are in  district 6 so I think it's incredibly important   that we continue um to invest in our uh Paving  our dirt roads so thank you now I'm done sorry   thank you I see no further comments can we  now take a 10-minute break and return in 10   minutes where we can then move to actual  voting on items to change the budget or the CIP e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e thank you mayor um I would like  to make a motion to move a million   dollars into the final CIP for golf  irrigation second council member John ston do do we vote on that motion before  another motion yeah we're sticking on this   one first so there's a motion and a second it's  now time for discussion I would like to endorse   that or the plan the city has come up with  fouryear plan is that something we'd rather   do the four-year plan or would we rather do a  million dollars to so Jennifer can you explain   what the process is because we have a motion  in a second on an additional one million from   the CIP to be uh directed to irrigation which  which then there's a follow-up question where   will that 1 million come from right you  have a motion and I don't know if council   member would You' like to offer a substitute  motion or you're just throwing this idea out   for discussion at this time want to offer  a substitute motion or um I I could offer   a substitute motion um substitute motion that  they we follow the plan uh city manager and the   golf uh director and Parks has come up with  for a four-year plan to replace uh all the   irrigation systems one per year motion and  I will second that substitute motion so we   have a motion and a second now more discussion  council member Glascock I'm confused with the   difference between councilman Ballard's and yours  what is the funding stream difference between both um in order to get the um million  dollars which would be just irrigation   at one golf course with a $500,000 match from  the golf system um we have multiple approaches   you could take to get to the million you  could um use um probably a combination of   budgeted Park enhancements and  transfers to the gulf CIP fund   which will be coming from our  reserves let me make sure I I say this correctly it would be um it would be a transfer  uh from the general fund and the permanent Reserve   Fund in the total amount of $500,000 and then uh  and then 5 or excuse me $400,000 and then 600,000   from budgeted Park enhancements that would be  one approach or you could adopt the plan to   have irrigation uh installed on all four courses  over a period of time and there are many Revenue   sources that would finance that plan including  savings operating savings that are generated from   the installation of those um irrigation systems  okay so that's on page three of the document that   was sent previously so is that council member  Johnston's plan that's the motion the motion   substitute motion that's in front of you it's  a comprehensive plan for all four courses over   four years using multiple sources of revenue  uh including including fee increases and in   a couple years so the fee increases would  occur in 2026 26 correct and and we would   understand that that would also be forgiving  the past debt and then incurring new debt   um as part of the total financing so there  doesn't need to be another motion to clear   the debt for the golf system currently  if we're with the with the motion that's   part of the plan so we would assume that  that's what you're talking about it is   okay I will withdraw that second then because  I think we should have a conversation about   forgiving that debt it is 5 $7 million  to the debt system um and I understand   council member Johnston's uh feedback regarding  increased property taxes that have been acred   over time but never just to pay off that loan  um I would like to know more information about   um that specific system that went into effect  in 2001 to now 2024 um property values around   that area can you give us how much money has been  collected not directly to uh offset that debt but   rather to pay for just regular um the general bu  budget I think we had a general estimate at one   time Mark do you remember it's not in a it's  not in a tiff District so we don't have exact numbers uh yes ma'am I'll give you a very short  history when we built Auburn Hills uh we used $2   million of go uh for the project and the rest was  supposed to be financ out of the golf system uh   in that Agenda Report if you read it from 20 some  years ago it talks about as Mr Johnston indicated   The increased valuation that would be generated  around that golf course and that gener that has   in fact occurred actually have that upstairs  in my office I should have brought it with   me I guess uh but to your point that increment  as he indicated is producing I'm gon to say an   excess of a million dollars a year obviously it  ramped up over the last 20 years but I would also   tell you that we've got increased cost providing  services in that area too but there is no question   that valuation at Auburn Hills because of the  construction of the golf course is generating   property tax revenue marginal property tax revenue  for the city which there's no doubt of that at all I will second JB's motion we have a motion  by council member Johnson and a second by vice   mayor Ballard one more time I I just wanted to be  very clear as we're about to make a vote um city   manager Leighton the dollar the CIP has3 billion  dollar in allocations over the 10-year period um   therefore where are we adjusting so that it is not  that plus but it's just within that three thank   you mayor good question I will let Mark correct  me if I'm wrong but you are moving $600,000   in 25 and 26 and $1.2 million in 27 from  budgeted Park enhancements that are in   the capital Improvement to the golf fund uh  for the installation of the systems you're   also incurring debt that will be repaid by  Surplus revenues in the golf fund and that's   number eight uh on that um list and if I heard  correctly the park Foundation also is going to   pay for some of these improvements to the  irrigation system uh not the foundation   it will be the park system itself and 24  it'll pay 47,7 and 25 it'll pay 395 910   and then on an ongoing basis its Surplus uh  revenues will go towards the payment of the debt and it will forgive the debt for Auburn  Hills the only way this works is if you   give that debt you can't add this debt  on top of that and then there also it   is understood that there would be a fee  increase in 20 to 26 and Beyond so that   the golfers are also paying for a portion  of the improvements can that fee increase be accelerated probably not until the   it's been upgraded right I don't know yes ma'am I  think the simple answer your question is it could   be anything that is done to accelerate that will  just make the coverage of the go debt even that   much more comfortable for the gulf system you know  whether we need that level of comfort it's another   question but that's how I would answer that I  would direct that that should be accelerated   to 2025 rather than 2026 um so that again we  have that assurance that there's a discipline   in giving back to this irrigation fund room so  that would be an amendment to The Substitute   motion that would have to be accepted by the  the by council member Johnston and vice mayor Ballard I would have a question on that before  anybody would make that you know when we're   talking about a fee increase and Jesse this may  be a question for you what is the fee increase   per round that's budgeted it's what 200,000  yes so what would be the individual per round   increase hi Jesse Kaufman I'm the manager of  the golf division um we like last year we did   189,000 rounds I believe so there's a a lot of  different ways we in the last the year before   last we did an increase to our membership cost  uh to our our members um and then this past year   we did an increase to green fees they were they  were minimal increase but um there's a variety   of ways that you could do that um you could do  an increase to both and increase to one um you   can increase driving range balls there's a lot of  areas where we could do that increase and that's   something that I would want to discuss with the  golf board um to see what they're comfortable with   and have their input um but there's a several  different ways that we could we could come   up with that increase so you're talking it's  closer to a dollar per round not $10 correct correct council member Tuttle thank you um I was gonna ask and I'm  sorry um this question is probably for Bob   or maybe Troy um I was going to ask about the fee  increases and how much they would be so thank you   for that um you mentioned that the money then  would come from P Future Park enhancements do   we have any idea what those are um you know how  are we going to decide which parks and out of   which district those will come from thank you  TR helpman director of Parks and Recreation uh   those funds typically cover repairs and and  upgrades to irrigation systems tennis courts   basketball courts so anything that needs  repairs within our Park system uh that's   partly what we use that funding for also for our  recreation centers so some of our buildings um   that need repairs and so that's kind of what we  use that funing for we've talked about deferred   maintenance at this meeting more than we ever  have probably since I've been here and so that   sounds a little bit Pro problematic that we're  just moving money from one deferred maintenance   issue to another deferred maintenance issue  is that correct to a certain point yes yeah   without those funds there would be a lot of things  that we would not be able to address and repair   within our Park system but it also generates  revenue does Mr manager can you help me here   yeah counil or mayor if I could um I just  want to make sure there isn't confusion we   also have um maintenance projects that go above  and beyond the enhancements the enhancements were   maybe addressing some maintenance issues  but we've got in Splash Pad maintenance   um you've got uh 880,000 every other year  and park facility maintenance you've got 262,525 atic field renovation  athletic Court uh funding that   we use and then you've got the park  facility enhancement money on top of that so maybe so it maybe not as impactful  as I thought as Mark said it was originally   put in there so we could upgrade our um uh rec  centers which were terribly uh neglected and so   it was meant to be that caliber of improvement  okay thank you so are we deferring Rec Center   major improvements or maintenance improvements  to now just the irrigation improvements uh   good question the projects I don't think have  been identified yet for 25 26 27 that would   be something that would be as part of analysis of  Park projects but you're right you'd be narrowing   what you'd be paying for you would not be paying  for enhan ment to facilities instead you would be   moving that for enhancements for the irrigation  system actually replacement of the irrigation systems councilman Rick lasu I'm Keen to support  this motion but I have the same concerns that uh   Council council member Tuttle has in terms  of as long as we're not as long as it's not   deferring defer maintenance um and pushing that  down maybe expansion is more my question I don't   know if there's a way we can delineate or or if  you are comfortable that there's going to be a   delineation between just deferred maintenance and  actually Capital enhancements the the rationale   that's in the report says that you you're  about ready to undertake a a master planning   process so at this point we're not sure what  resources are going to be needed because we   don't know what the improvements are going  to be uh that are recommended in the master   plan so we thought we had a gap here for a few  years until those projects are identified um   because I'm not sure how much you want to put  into an enhancement of facility that turns out   to be maybe inconsistent with or not a priority  in the master plan okay I feel comfortable with   that Assurance I just want to make sure we're  not taking stuff away from Parks and Recreation   as a whole in terms of council member Johnston I  I think what we're talking about here is deferred   maintenance that has been way past overdue a  sprinkler system last 15 20 years years you know   and we're we're almost you know at 25 to 28 range  on a lot of them so I think it's addressing that   issue and on on rate increases I haven't talked to  a golfer yet wouldn't mind paying especially for   the the the annual membership um it's it's it's  it's a great value probably too good a value um   um so I mean that I think that could be increased  and and maybe a small increase on the green too   another thing I I'll point out is 18 or 18 and  under 17 and under play free so there's a lot   of kids I take my grandkids out there's a lot  of kids getting exposed to golf um that haven't   never been explosed to golf and the first tea at  McDonald Park is furthering that and uh you know   have the grand open here pretty quick and it's  going to expose a lot of uh kids that might be   at risk um to golf give them an outlet for golf so  golf golf and and Jesse's done a wonderful job of   of inclusive inclus inclusivity uh having days for  women you know having tournaments for women having   the kids program I mean that that's why it's doing  it really well and I will say as a as a compliment   to Jesse and all the staff the attitude at the  golf courses is extremely welcoming and that   makes a big difference on where you play it's  how you get treated they've done an absolutely   wonderful job and I think that's a big part of  the turnaround credit to him and his staff so   I think this is money well well invested I say we  kind of went through the history of why that debt   was there has been laying there for a long time I  think I looked at that plan and it's very several   different funding sources but all put together  it'll take care of four courses it'll put some   of the burden a lot of the burden on golfers and  uh address the the issues and actually save water   save electricity I I think it's just an all round  it's a it's a well thought out very good plan I   don't know who did it but probably Troy and Jesse  probably probably did it um but I think it's a   wellth thought out plan I think it's it's good for  golf it's good for the city my only concern with   this is so the cost recovery or the increases in  fees would not be until 2026 so the current motion   the current substitute motion says those would  take effect in 2026 rather than 2025 which is   an amendment so how would I would we still need  to vote on this first before an amendment no if   you you could ask C council member Johnston to  amend his motion to have the fees take effect in   2025 I will caution you though I believe that the  Park Board of I mean the Golf Board of Governors   is given the authority to do that so what you'll  be doing is requesting them to implement a fee   I don't believe you have the authority to do that  under our current current ordinance also if you're   going to go in this direction I think Mark needs  four actions that are implied in all of this if   if you want to make sure that it it's  it's understood what those actions would be yes sir Mr Johnston to uh if if the direction  is to implement the plan that is included in the   material we need authorization to forgive  the loan uh we need authorization to shift   the park Geo projects to irrigation  or Gulf CIP we need authorization for   whatever amounts you choose to transfer from  the general fund or the permanent Reserve or   whatever we need those amounts identified and  we need authorization to increase the capital   Improvement program by the amounts included in  here the $9 million over five years so we can   get that included in the CIP what amount was  it included on the plan I gave my plan total   uh it's just a shade under 9 million eight  million of it is irrigation 1 million is uh a   few amounts here and there for equipment over  the years and minor stuff it's basically $9 million council member clock in terms of the  fee increase if it's up to the uh Board of   golf Governor whatever if it's up to the Golf  Board then what happens if we do this and they   say no fee increase then what happens because we  would have a gap in funding at that point you can   indicate that this is subject to revenue increases  by the gulf um board amounting to two $100,000 a   year starting in 2025 okay and then you wouldn't  go forward with it if that they didn't come up   with those Revenue increases do I need to add that  or would that just be a I can I can do that okay   member Johnston thank you Jesse when is the when  do you do the annual increases what month do you   do those U there there really isn't a dedicated  time for that that typically we have tried to   do them in March just because you don't want it  raise increases when it's winter and the grass is   normant so um we try try to do it in March but  we could we could certainly do it at any time   that we need I'll have less people drop if you do  it in March as opposed to that's that's it yeah exactly so I'd like to frame reframe  my motion I'm going to need Mark's help I would I would like to to move that we  or substitute motion I guess it is substitute   motion to uh follow the four-year plan for the  golf course irrigation systems and Mark can you   go over those four things again and I'll include  those as you speak uh actually if you could direct   us to include the golf CIP plan which includes  a little bit more than the irrigation included   in the report C if you could authorize us to  forgive the golf debt if you could authorize   us to shift the park projects identified in  the report and if you could authorize us to   transfer whatever amount and I'm sorry I was I  was a little late getting back so I missed the   beginning whatever amount it is that you think is  appropriate from the general fund or the permanent   Reserve how much is in the general fund now in  the in that this plan I think this identified   a half a million from both sources again that was  just a it would be under I think uh the amendment   that's offered by the mayor you would need a  transfer of 5 $100,000 in 2024 and $300,000 in 2025 instead of the 500,000 in 2025 instead  right because you'd have 200,000 more from   the fees from the fees yes okay and  finally for the motion to um direct   or request the Golf Board of Governors  to consider yes and J you got all that   I don't think I can repeat that do I need to  repeat that or can you get it from workk okay   thank you and then I would like to uh uh request  the Golf Board of Governors increase the fees and   I'm going to say in March increase the fees in  March um to equate for basically $200,000 so we   can so we can take less from the uh CIP fund  um by $200,000 uh starting in March of 2025 whatever mix they want to do annual fees  uh green fees cart fees whatever that is   council member Glascock and not just requests  but this is subject to the approval Board of   Governors okay subject to the Board of Governors  increasing fees in March that would equate to $200,000 we have a motion in a second and before  I cast my vote I will explain my uh reasoning we   have a total of seven recreational centers  I mentioned earlier today and it bothers me   again to wait until a master plan that we  might have to do some deferred maintenance   and that to me will be the reason why I will  vote no because I am very concerned that we   have seven rec centers that may have some  maintenance issues that we need to address   but now we're really just focusing on Golf and I  appreciate that the golf system is well utilized   and Jesse you're doing a great job and getting  more people there um but I am concerned again   on those seven rec centers council member  Johnston thank you mayor if I could adjust   that too as I understand it that money has just  been sitting there for years it's not like it's   imminently needed it's been sitting there for  years uh and so it's a way to to use those funs   now until we get a comprehensive  plan for the parks and rec centers so I there's no further discussion  Madame clerk please open the role motion passes 6 to one we're we're going to have a lot of  happy golfers council member John uh   glas yeah Madame mayor with a motion as well  um to redirect the dirt street program with   the exception of the allocation around uh our  schools to um be redirected into the street   maintenance program as a whole if I have need  to clarify that I know we had discussion about it motion and we have multiple  people on the board so council member Tuttle thank you um I wish I would have known this  was going to come up today so I could have had   some time to do some Discovery and and have some  conversations with folks I am interested in the   concept My Hope and I had talked to Bob about  this briefly is that the money could be used   for to be could be put into reserves to  help us address the 2026 budget shortfall   that we're anticipating but the fund  the funding is local sales tax so it   has to remain in roads and streets and Mark is  shaking his head so um so that's my my concern um this has been an issue of much discussion and  I've had different thoughts on this um so I'll   I'll be curious to see where the conversation goes  um but um I I had hoped that it would be able to   go towards reserv since it can't I'm I'm going to  make sure that I'm listening to the conversation   carefully before I can make a decision thank you  council member ho Heisel thank you mayor I just   want to reiterate my earlier comments um this is  something that can help a lot of poor people in   a lot of areas the first road that we were Paving  Council remember and Johnson and I were out there   um talking to some of the neighbors and one of  the neighbors indicated a car that had come off   the dirt road that we paved and crash into his  tree in his yard because of skidding around and   whatnot stuff that doesn't happen necessarily  with uh paved roads so this is a safety issue   this is an equity issue and again um it's a  couple of years before we're even done around   the schools so um this is something that that  um I just will not be for so I appreciate that   and um thanks for the conversation I guess vice  mayor Ballard thank you mayor I just want to Echo   council member hoel's comments um like I mentioned  before 40% of the dirt roads are in district 6 and   I feel like I would be doing a disservice to my  constituents by voting to uh not focus on Paving   those roads so I will not not be supporting this  council member Johnson thanks mayor um concrete   roads are extremely important something that I've  heard about U since I got elected and wanted to   see uh some movement on but it's extremely  expensive um to fix those and we are already   putting money uh into a fund to address those um  in a way that will make an impact the other thing   um I won't be supporting this motion although I  do support concrete streets because a lot of the   folks who've resided around dirt roads and I can  think of several in district one who have complain   to me over the years who are on fixed income who  are just saying that they feel that folks don't   care about them because they have those dirt roads  one of them will be paved next year if everything   goes through um but the other one probably won't  be for a while because it's not around a school   um but the area definitely does need it we've  made a commitment to those in the community who   have dirt roads that we were going to take care  of those and they've seen it they saw it in the   last couple budgets from previous councils that  this was important and they were looking forward   to that and if we uh just abruptly say nope we're  going to go do something else then again the folks   who are stuck with the dirt roads don't see any  real Improvement while we could improve those   dirt roads like we had talked about as well as  put money away for concrete Street improvements   which needs to happen as well but I don't think  we should abandon the dirt roads just to take   care of the concrete I think we can and should  do both so I won't be supporting this motion as   I support the dirt roads program council member  Glascock I'll just make a few more comments we   have wealthy witchin and middle class witchin that  live live on dirt roads and we have poor witchin   that also live on roads that have been developed  and so well yes there is I have the second most   amount of dirt roads um in the entire city as well  um to me individuals that are currently on roads   I I think there's an delineation for me between  the school district and then also not the school   district we're looking at an increase in 14,590  Lane miles a year that's nearly a 30% increase   that we'd be able to maintain by moving from  the stre streets program um and reallocating   funds now obviously keeping some schools in  there it may decrease that amount a little   bit from 14,000 but around that amount I mean  that's a pretty sizable difference um and that's   if we were to pave every single dirt street  I think the one of the alloc or one of the   um points in here says it's through 2052 the  graphs through 2062 um so I don't know which   one's accurate if it's 2052 or 62 but that's a  substantial period And so this isn't a cut um   this is a redirect towards taking care of our  current assets instead of expanding our assets   and we're able to better maintain 14,590  Lane miles over this course of this period   so that's why I've offer this motion council  member tutle thank you council member bcot can you   please repeat your motion the motion and I'm I'm  open to a substitute motion as well is to redirect   with the exception of um dirt streets around  schools redirect the dirt streets program towards   um our just Street maintenance program as a whole  so I guess my question is for council member   Johnson if that's okay you just talked about cont  conrete streets but I didn't hear him say it was   only going to be for concrete streets yeah my  um my concrete Street support is neighborhood   concrete streets not just the overall program I  think we're doing we're making a lot of progress   on the overall program when I got elected I think  we were spending 4 million of year own streets and   now we're almost a 13 so I think we're doing good  um in the overall program um but I do hear a lot   from folks in neighborhoods about their concrete  streets cuz I assume and and Mark Bob Gary whoever   is the best person but if we said you know we're  going to still make sure all the the dirt roads   are around schools are taken care of but then  the funds then would be redirected I assumed   it go to op3 and somehow equally distributed  among all six districts is that correct well   we haven't talked about methodology but that's  what it's that's what's been done so far and   that would be my intention be reg okay because  I just heard conversation about just concrete   streets and then you know that is very specific  to certain districts and not across overall um one   thing that is Weighing on my mind as I'm going  to be making this decision is that I've said   consistently during all of these budget hearings  and Community meetings that I was grateful for   community members for telling us what they thought  their priorities were in the community survey and   we know that Street Maintenance is one of the  top three um and so I think that you know we've   done great job with the dirt streets getting  them around schools I know it's a long process   it's an expensive process but this would help  provide some additional relief across the entire   city if we were able to find it have additional  funding for op3 so just my thought council member   Johnson thanks mayor I'm probably going to get  this number wrong so Gary or Mark can correct me   but I believe when we first started talking about  the dirt roads program to pave every Dirt Road in   the city of wiah was over $120 million and when  we looked at cutting that down to schools and   lower income neighborhoods that's where this  program came from which is the 39 million so   this really is taking care of the immediate need  it's not just saying we're going to pay every Dirt   Road in the city of Witchita it's actually a  focused effort on the areas that needed most   again lower income communities and schools so any  redirection from that again says to those folks in   those areas that their streets and their needs in  that subject around roads it's not important we're   going to put this towards the rest of the city's  uh infrastructure whereas we could and should keep   our word to those folks in those areas and make  sure we address those issues and spend that 39   million on the things that we focused on and then  once that's done I think a future Council because   this is going to take a while could then look at  is there a way to allocate additional funding to   more of our city infrastructure I also want to  highlight funding continues to increase on roads   anyway again when I got elected we were around  4 million a year now we're looking at 13 every   year it continues to go up we continue to do more  work Public Works does an amazing job of figuring   out uh the best ways to squeeze every penny out  of what we have to improve Lane miles in the city   of witch so again I hope that we would maintain  our current program that has been approved and   that people are looking forward to and my support  will not be for this motion and will continue to   be to continue the dirt roads program as it's  been presented council member hoisel thank you   mayor um just a little bit of background too uh  what we're talking about when we say dirt roads   we're not doing the full Cadillac version of uh  road paving these are simply asfalt overlays um   we don't do curban gutter um they already have  the gutters right there so um it's considerably   uh less expensive than actually doing a road like  we do in the most majority of the neighborhoods   that we do do that so council member Glascock last  comment people that lived on pay roads have also   paid special assessments on the roads and they  paid into the system in addition to that this   doesn't negate that we can spend money on dirt  roads some of my Mo my motion does not prohibit   that that we can take on a case-by casee basis  from this Council and look at op3 so it doesn't   prevent us from Paving dirt roads in the future  but it gives us more flexibility in how we can   properly spend our resources and also enhance  our infrastructure council member Johnston thank   you mayor what what is the life of a pavement  over a dirt road what's the life of that road and one of the reasons why it won't last quite  as long is because it doesn't have any enhanced   drainage Improvement so we are we are putting  down an improved Road bed if you will new asphalt   pavement uh we will see some degradation of the  pavement depending on where it's at depending   on the situation a little sooner than we would  in other situations because of the lack of of   formal drainage and what did you say the life  was well I think we we're still going to get 20   years out of it before we need to really start  doing substantial maintenance that doesn't mean   it's gone at that point but probably get to that  point and somewhere in between like the rest of   our roads uh with our strategy for preservation  versus mitigation we're not just going to let   them sit for that whole time either we'll be doing  things along the way to try to extend that life my   estimation of 20 years is getting to a point of  having to do some more substantial significant   Rehabilitation at that point okay I noticed on  on that type of Road usually the the edges chip   off after a couple years pavement sure it's it's  possible it depends on the soil type it depends   on which part of the city it's at it depends on  traffic patterns but that's in and again whether   there's ditches or not there's a lot of factors  involved but it's possible without having that   edge containment with a curb and gutter right  thank you a motion to second or I will second   this motion um due to this motion having taken  into consideration that schools will become a   priority will continue to be will still continue  to pave dirt roads but it will be those that are   around schools uh so more children um parents  Grand grandparents driving kiddos uh near those   schools and again the number that still keeps  me focused on looking at the overall system is   I know that this would eliminate all of them  versus the schools only so 15,590 Lane miles   per year is what reminds me that it helps all  of the community or more people in the community   and it's back to being fair to all and so I will  be seconding so I have a motion and a second   further discussion beginning with council member  Johnston thank you mayor I'm I'm a bit confused   because I think I think councilman glasscock's  motion was to correct me if I'm wrong to take   that $19 million and move it to pave streets and  not pave any dirt roads it was to um move the dirt   streets program into with the ception of schools  into just Street Maintenance as a so I didn't   offer any specifications of where to spend that  exactly just Street Maintenance as a whole just   just for clarification we estimated that would  be about five years worth of work so for the next   five years we would be completing the work around  schools if my time on the uh District Advisory   Board I remember that the dirt stre program was  just going to focus on around schools at first   is that not correct I think that was an initial   discussion but that's not what  the council's final policy was okay council member Johnson thanks thanks mayor  um just a clarification it was schools in lower   income areas that was the final Council policy  um I would provide a little push back um fair   to all is not putting money into something that  goes throughout the whole city one thing as I've   always said when I was a coach is we're only as  strong as our weakest link and right now I would   consider weak links folks who live around the dirt  roads and if we don't do what we can to fix those   dirt roads we're actually not helping everybody  we're just Paving streets in different parts of   town yes that there is a scoring Matrix which  Public Works uses but this was an intentional   pot of money for dirt roads to ensure that the  folks that lived around those dirt roads that   were by schools and lower income areas actually  would have a Level Playing Field with the people   who had concrete or asphalt this approach while  it would still maintain some of the work around   schools then abandons the lower income areas and  those of the folks who also need that council   member Glascock made a really good point that we  do have people who can pay special assessments and   we've already seen a couple streets in district  one in the Spring Acres neighborhood where they   chose to pay for it themselves and they got it  paved but the areas that are lowincome um they   would be pretty much dismissed out of this as  we're looking at allocating that money equally   throughout other districts and I would maintain  that again you're only as strong as your weakest   link we need to make the investments in those  dirt roads to ensure that those folks have the   same type of Driving Experience the same type of  cleaner air experience that everyone else would   have and I think our Focus needs to be that  and government if we are not in intentional   about addressing the issues we face then we don't  make progress and we're not going to make progress   on dirt roads if we don't make an intentional  investment that is only for dirt roads and only   in those areas because those folks would see these  other roads getting paved and I hear it there's a   lady on the stale who says it all the time wiah  is Paving all these other roads but they're not   Paving this dirt road we can't afford it most of  the folks there are renting we can't get a hold   of the property owners anyway so her street gets  abandoned out of this um when it was a part of   an intentional package to address that again as  Government we need to be very intentional about   addressing the issues we have or else we'll never  make progress and those folks will be the ones   that say the wiah doesn't care about them council  member Whois thank you mayor um yeah I didn't pay   a special on my road I the special was paid 50 100  years ago or whenever whenever it came about but   my tax dollars goes to help rehab my road so these  people are paying taxes to help rehab roads and   they are not getting anything for their dirt road  that they have in front of their house so to me   that's an issue of equity right there because they  are currently paying into a system that they are   not seeing a return on so um yeah just a little  push back on that one as well thank you council   member John Sten so I'm still confused which is  maybe normal um so councilman glasa is there a   certain amount that would go towards Paving roads  around schools and rest of it go to the general   Road fund I imagine that we have that exact number  of what it would be around schools but it would be   anything it would be redirecting anything on top  of around schools I don't have that exact amount   in front of me currently but we would take care  of schools and then anything after that would   be redirected to normal Street Maintenance  operations well I I would make a substitute   motion that we we get more information on this and  and talk about it next week ER would you have the   information about how many miles around schools  uh that are still needed it's over the next five years I won't accept a substitute motion we have  a motion in a second have on the board council   member we have a motion and a second any further  discussion I see Excuse excuse me mayor I think   from a procedural standpoint and I'll ask the  City attorney to correct me if someone offers   a substitute motion I think it then has to stand  for a v uh for a second and then a vote or if he   doesn't get a second then we can go because it  wasn't offered as an amendment that is correct   I did not hear a second so I Let It Go on title  thank you I was going to ask for clarification   so we have a motion in a second to stop Paving  dirt roads except finish what we're doing around   schools which you anticipate will take five years  there seems to be a little bit of confusion or   maybe it's just councilor Johnston and I but  I'm not exactly sure how much money and what   the whatever so I understand council member  Johnston made a motion to delay it just so   that we can get more information information  from Public Works before next week is that   correct that's correct substitute motion I would  second The Substitute motion to delay because I   think this needs some more discussion um and I  would like to know a little bit more about the   process so I I would second that And to  clarify is that motion to to delay until   next week yes till 20th okay we have a motion  and a second to De delay this specific topic   on dirt roads until next week yes this is the  substitute motion that has been made in seconded   any further discussion I see  none Madame clerk please open the role motion passes four to three no it fails  oh sorry it fails fail sorry motion does not   pass four to three now we're back on  council member glasscock's original motion that one had a motion and a second so  now we are back to the motion from council   member Glascock regarding moving dirt road  paving budgeted to only schools that correct   and so we have a motion in a second any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the role motion does not carry for to three do we have more motions for  today we do okay council member Johnston I think we need to have dinner  here too so this I would like to make a   motion to move uh $5,000 from the CIP budget  2025 ES 010 which is 21st Street 119th to St   Teresa uh right now it's 1, 275,000 I'd like  to decrease that by 5,000 1, 270,000 and put   that 5,000 towards the uh acquisition of  land for the uh Northwest Freeway and the   state fund for the Northwest Freeway give a  little background on that in my thinking um   I've been here a long time and and I remember  when Rock Road was actually a two-lane road   past 13th uh there was nothing past witw Country  Club when I was when I was a kid and uh it just   exploded through uh Bradley Fair when George put  Bradley Fair in and and the the development just   continued and exploded um it got to where Rock  Road was not really drivable in a timely manner   at all it would take three stop lights to get  through a light um to the point where people   avoided avoided Rock Road completely uh that  all changed when George abau and Charles kooch   uh donated some of the land and put a timeline  on building k96 and I can guarantee you nobody   at that time thought k96 would be six Lanes as it  is going to be um but when that went in that took   a tremendous amount of traffic off of Rock Road  I see the same thing happening on mazee road uh   Mae used to be busy just in the morning just at  night when people came home and on weekends now   Mae road is busy all the time more developments  coming down Central down 13th down 21st and it's   only going to get worse um it's almost to the  point where Rock Road was back then so that   that's my reasoning um in 1997 98 there's a study  that designed a Northwest Freeway bypass what you   want to call it um 40% of the land has already  been acquired for that I realize it is not on   K Do's radar at all not for the next 10 years so  this is probably going to be a 20y year play maybe   longer and and honestly I'll probably be dead by  then so not being dramatic but uh I am 64 and my   dad only made to 79 so I I just think this is is  a future thinking of acquiring land while we can   um once it's for sure thing that land prices are  going to go up and I know they can get emminent   domain and things like that but I just think it's  prudent to do it now as land becomes available uh   we can acquire it the County's been putting in  a million dollars a year to acquire land matched   by the state and I would just like us to put a  meager $5,000 in to say yes we are interested   we are interested in helping uh uh res residents  in that area uh get around and really 135 and 235   are almost to the middle of the city anymore there  really is no way to get around Northwest wiah so I   would like to make that motion anybody would like  to Second it I would appreciate it council member Johnson council member CL [ __ ] I I'll second the  motion but my comment was for after council member Johnston Johnson's still on here so council member  title now thank you okay so here's my question and   then I have a comment if if we put 5,000 we  reserve $5,000 is this is this your intention   for annually or just for next year just for next  year okay so $5,000 I'm assuming isn't going to   purchase any parcel of land I mean I I would not  think so so then what happens to the $5,000 after   because I don't think you can buy anything for  $5,000 out there for a right of way well there's a   fund now so it it goes into that fund but is that  what is that what we're we're saying I mean we've   I've never had a RightWay acquisition since I've  been here so Bob can you or Mark or Gary someone   help me out here because I mean I don't know what  that fund is and are we writing a check to kot are   we writing a check to a non for-profit I mean I  would want some details of where the money would   be going um does that make sense what I'm asking  yes I I'm just not sure I know the mechanism that   the county has used with the state and whether  single fund or on a per parcel basis do you know   from what I know the funding between the state and  the county is all going into one place uh kot is   responsible for the acquisition of RightWay um  there is some funding still there right now that   I don't know how active it is but they've built  up some funds but I think if the city chose to   add funding it would just go into that same bank  Kat would still be responsible for all the I don't   know if that even comes close to answering your  question but so may I ask a follow-up question so   from what I hear you saying is we would be writing  a check to K do is that correct I think that makes   is there a specific Northwest Bypass pot or is  it just going into a land acquisition pot that K   there's a there's a I'm sure there's a specific  fund for property acquisition for the Northwest   bypass yes because we we have seen numbers to  relative to that to council member Johnson's   comment they've acquired somewhere between 30 and  40% of the rideway needed for the project there   is a positive balance in that bank account now I  saw a recent presentation uh from Cedric County   Public Works that showed that number okay and do  we know is K do and Cedric County are they still   contributing to the right of way fund I know they  were doing some kind of matching initiative is   that still happening I have heard but anecdotally  I haven't heard from Kat or the county that that   that it isn't happening but I'm just curious  they they had been as of last year okay the   last I heard was it could be up for debate on for  both of them but I hadn't heard a confirmation   yet in 2024 okay so if they I'm I'm sorry I'm  peppering you with questions I'm sorry but so   let's say that they stop contributing to that  are they still in the process then of acquiring   land or are they just sitting there waiting for  something does that make sense no it does that's   uh part of the equation too that I don't know we  have a real clear answer on there I know there's   a fairly sizable positive balance right now in  that account for acquisition of RightWay for the   Northwest bypass it's my understanding and I am  more than happy to follow up on this and and get   clarification is that K do is still looking for  when there are opportunity purchases that's the   funding that they would use it doesn't I can't  from my perspective what I've seen and heard I'm   not sure that it's really active uh but they do  have a fund balance there and if the opportunity   arises that's what that's for okay but I can get  more clarification on all of that and maybe I'm   the only one who has concerned but I just I  mean it's such a a small amount I know but   I just want to make sure that we know where the  money is going and how it's going to be spent so   that's why I'm asking the questions it it would  I can tell you that part regardless of what the   amount would be whether it's from the city or the  county it's all going towards that same purpose   okay thank you thank you for answering my  questions and then just my comment um I've   remained neutral on this with topic for the  Northwest bypass expansion or not Northwest   Bypass um I I am super glad that Council M  Johnston mentioned that for um k96 when it   was developed that there was a study that showed  that there would be the economic feasibility of   it and what the return on investment would be  and so um I have said regarding the Northwest   Bypass very publicly I'm not opposing it  or fiting against it I'm not supporting   it until I see an economic study that shows  what the return investment would be thank you I have a motion and a second further  discussion I will give my response to uh   um also what council member Tuttle has said  I think throughout this entire day what we've   been asking for is more data and more information  and um I've had this conversation with council   member Tuttle regarding the feasibility study uh  that has not been updated since regarding this   specific area in Northwest wiah um so I will  not be voting in favor because I want to see   more information and I want a feasibility  study to be done before we make further   decisions um because again um our partners  at kot um have been gracious in letting us   advocate for further improvements along West  Kellogg and then just recently I wrote a letter in   support of improvements to the canal route on i135  so that's already two projects that uh directly   impact a lot of witchin and um I really would  like to see again a feasibility study as council   member Tuttle has mentioned um before I would  move forward with anything regarding Northwest   again staying focused with K do um which we're  very appreciative of uh continuing Investments   on West Kellog or Kellog in general and then  Investments onto i135 as that infrastructure   continues to age um are very critical for  our community council member Johnston thank   you mayor um I'm probably the only one here who  remembers I35 when there was no I35 you had to   go up Broadway way when we went to abene Kansas to  uh visit my grandparents so long time ago so when   the I35 came in about it saved us 15 minutes get  AV so long time I think what this 5,000 does it   encourages a study to be done it encourages says  okay which to's a little bit interested and maybe   we should do a study so it's it's a token amount  I realize that doesn't mean much um but I think it   encourages that study to be done see it to see  where we are and we needed that's why it's so   little we have a motion and a second any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the role motion passes 6 to one do I have any more council members that  want to make motions I see another council   member Glasco I do think councilman Johnson  might have had one prior though or were you   just saving comments later okay um so in the  proposed uh follow-up issues packet uh that Bob   had presented us or manager L sorry had presented  us uh the concepts included on the 2025 proposed   budget tier one and tier two um I'm interested  in uh initiating those cost savings items one   through 11 I'm not interested in item number  12 um so it' be reinitiating items number one   through 12 or sorry 1 through 11 there's no page  numbers um 1 through 11 in addition that would   be a cost savings an initial cost Savings of  about $ 1,50,000 um in 2025 instead of waiting   until 2026 and then I would also be interested in  implementing the concepts not curent included in   the 2025 proposed budget tier 3B which would come  out to about $2 million between both of those it   would be a cost Savings in the 2025 budget of $  33,50 um both of these have said both of these   will not have uh impact to services that the city  currently offers um they process improvements uh   they're maintaining half open existing levels uh  we will still have open positions in these areas   if bladens the organizations equ able management  model um and uh just improves our processes and   how we uh do business in the city council member  Tuttle where are you at where you I don't think   it was the packet that uh was sent out yesterday  and then I would request if you don't mind that   anything the community doesn't have items I  could do item by item and read them I I think   that's really important because otherwise  the community who doesn't have the document   them don't don't doesn't know what we're  discussing very fair I am happy to read through   all of them items number one would be um Cowtown  cost recovery is still at Zer dollar so that does   not affect uh cow toown item number two is naming  rights at uh parks and cultural facilities at   500,000 implementation um number three planning  cost recovery at 25,000 police animal control dog   licensing at 80,000 Finance accounts payable  centralized and automate process at $70,000   um Public Works and utilities Fleet evaluate  vehicles and maintenance Approach at 150,000   cost savings Century 2 reduced the subsidy by  100,000 Finance accounts receivable improvements   at 25,000 um ice rink reduced the subsidy by  $100,000 and so those would be the items uh   that I propose implementing in 2025 that have  been proposed implementing in 2026 in addition   to that um the items included in tier three B  would be municipal court process Improvement at   125,000 facilities maintain existing Staffing  level 350,000 and again uh per the manager's   clarification that isn't a full elimination of  all open positions um number 20 maintain existing   service levels Park maintenance at 250,000 again  same thing uh Street Maintenance maintain existing   Staffing levels at 650,000 again not eliminating  all open positions um fining health insurance plan   redesign at 275,000 and item number 34 would be  the flatten organiz flatten organization of the   Equitable management model at 250,000 so it comes  out collectively to uh $ 33,50 savings that we   would begin to implement in 2025 and not wait till  2026 sorry that was a very long motion may ask a   follow-up question yes so you're proposing all  of these things that you just mentioned to cut to   day correct they're what is looking at being  implemented in 26 27 and 28 and when we've   had these discussions with Bob previously this  would just be moving them a year earlier and a   year Advance opposed to when the budget allocation  was in 2026 7 and 28 follow followup question so   you're going into 3B 3B but not full 3B uh so the  3B ons were um improvements um maintain existing   staff levels and three of the Departments  but that isn't I think maintaining existing   levels is not fully accurate so Bob how would we  maybe rephrase that would be the the 3B items we   continue to recommend that those be studied and  these are interim steps during that study process   we intend after this budget process is over give  the staff a week or two for uh to catch their   breath and then we're going to uh implement the  studies for all of those 3B items we believe that   what's shown in yellow could be implemented in 25  as first steps uh and some of them recognize that   we have vacancy rates that um are probably not  going to change substantially um but at the same   time we didn't want to hamstring ourselves and put  and and position us where we didn't know the long   range implications for instance on facilities  maintenance U originally we were thinking   that that could result in $925,000 of savings  if we accept today's Staffing level and service   level well we're not sure what the long-term  implications of that will be but we're we   know from a practical standpoint it'll be  difficult for us to fill a number of the   vacant positions so that's where the 350 for  instance comes into play there um I could go   into more detail on all of these um but this is  what we think is realistic IC that would move us   down the road now the one thing that we haven't  talked about or council member Glascock hasn't   mentioned is where th those dollars would  go and one recommendation we have made is   that if the council were to approve this  we need funding Mark of how much for the paperless we would need 600 we would recommend  675,000 of this amount go for us to buy the   equipment or the software that's necessary Neary  to imp implement the paperless um timekeeping um   which would then go into effect in 26 right but  we'd be able to make the capital purchase in 25   and that will result in ongoing Savings in the  future so you're investing now to for ongoing   sa uh organizational savings and in support of  that uh the language from the report provided   by staff uh staff is if the city C Council  wish to implement tier 3B Concepts and incor   incorporate them into the proposed budget  it would be possible to implement them and   accelerate cost savings into 2025 um and from  my understanding of conversations and Bob's   comments there that it doesn't affect current  service levels um it's working to mitigate and   uh proactively handle some of these things as  well um I know that uh the manager and I have   talked about um perhaps since we're not able  to uh change the amount we're offering to The   Debt Service service fund which is what  I originally was interested in that this   could go towards either debt servicing and  offering cash or projects is that correct Mr manager uh yes sir that would be one option is  to direct staff to allocate cash from the general   fund into specific CIP projects would which would  in effect reduce our future borrowing needs so   reducing future borrow needs um uh providing  some projects via cash savings now um again not   hurting service levels and then so out of that  3,50 ,000 $675,000 could go towards investing   in paperless timekeeping and the rest could go  towards um Debt Service and offering cash for projects council member ho Heisel thank you  mayor uh quick question so we don't fill these   positions that we have open employment for right  now next year the money is still there we can do   something a little different with it if we need  to put in reserves put it in correct so okay um   I'm not necessarily against this I just personally  I'd like to take another week to to kind of look   through a lot of this um we did get the update  the additional reports yesterday morning um   actually about midday so I was able to scan it not  necessarily take it all in the way I wanted to um   so just my uh two cents there about some of these  um adjustments that you're looking to that end it   has hasn't been seconded yet and so I'm happy to  um change my motion to defer it to August 20th   I wasn't planning on offering this to August 20th  until the manager said it might be easier to talk   about motions today so I was planning on doing  the 20th so I'm fine deferring this and having   more conversations with my colleagues about it if  there was a second I will add one more thing to   uh city manager Leighton can you please update  these on our website so that the community can   see not just uh yesterday's update but also last  week these were answers to questions we asked   during the very first budget um presentation and  a lot of those answers uh came out again end of   last week and early this week so if you can put  that on the website we're prepared to do that we   just wanted a direction from Council so council  member Tuttle thank you I'm glad you brought it   up this week and not next week because that would  have been really unfair for us to have to make the   decision on that day so thank you for doing that  um I also agree it's not a topic for today and and   and I'm also going to you know put a bug maybe  in people's ear that when we do this next week   we take these line item by line item because for  example if I understand what I hear you're you're   wanting is that we would take 275,000 from the  health insurance plan redesign or we would take   250,000 out of park maintenance well we just moved  money out of park maintenance for the irrigation   system and so I'm not going to be interested in in  learn in you know anything that that impacts our   employees our police our fire Public Works Library  um HR staff I mean our 3100 employees who are the   backbone of this organization anything with health  insurance plan design I'm going to need to to know   more of what that means and again you know for  example we just took money out of park and so   I'm going to need to digest this a little bit more  but um I I hope next week we're probably going to   have another Marathon me because I I'm pretty  sure we're going to want to go by these one by   one so thank you council member Johnson thanks  mayor also appreciate U knowing about it today   and the willingness to defer um until next week  just wanted to say that and um I haven't fully   just like council member hois I glanced at this  I haven't had a chance to fully digest it but   item number 24 the health insurance plan redesign  is that money to redesign it or are we looking at   was proposed no there's not at this point  there's nothing proposed what I've committed   from the very beginning is that we would sit  down with our employee committee and indicate   that we need to work we know longterm we have to  make changes in our health plan and so we would   work collectively with that committee to bring  back recommendations and we think realistically   we can make some plan changes that are not would  not be harmful to our employees and get that kind   of savings but we won't know until we get this  this is an estimate and we won't know until we   finish that work okay um I guess we don't have  to make a decision until next week but I would   just say I wouldn't be supportive if it's  not led by the group you mentioned and if   it results in insurance that is not as good as  what we have now I wouldn't be supportive of it vice mayor Ballard thank you I just want to  Echo my colleagues comments uh council member   Glascock appreciate you bringing this up but  I wouldn't feel comfortable voting on it today   council member last com Yeah final comments about  this um thankful for the discussion um I know that   these have been in our packets previously so  we're not springing this on the public we've   at least talked about these in a public setting  very comfortable talking about it next week again   that was my original intention was to talk about  this uh next week but I'm glad we're having this   discussion now I'm looking forward to it I  believe these aren't harmful uh to service   levels and I also believe it offers Innovative  cost recovery models as well um that think are   very hopeful for the Budget moving forward that's  not just uh looking at uh service Cuts or not even   service Cuts but uh reprocessing reorganization  of our model but also how to recoup some of that   investment and I'm very comfortable going line  item by line item next week because I know that we   may all disagree uh on light item by light item so  I'm comfortable uh with moving forward um on that   next week as well council member ho Heisel thank  you mayor just one correction to uh council member   tle uh next week will not be a marathon meeting  it's actually probably going to be a continuation   of this meeting I think we'll we'll still be  in session [Laughter] so so we will defer this   item oh sorry uh procedural matter mayor I have  not heard a second to this motion there wasn't   there was no second to that motion so we will def  I'll just bring up a discussion Point next week I   don't need a second so I can withdraw my motion  withdrawing the motion council members any more   motions for today I see none which means oh  council member hois I have one more motion   on this topic and it is a motion to uh receive  public comment on the 2025 2026 proposed budget in   the 2025 2034 proposed Capital Improvement program  second Motion in a second any further discussion I   see none Madame clerk please open the role motion  passes 70 Madame clerk please call the third item I'm sorry mayor um there needs to be a  motion to defer this until the 20th uh our   presenter was not able to stay do you believe  that that should be maybe even deferred one   more week just because I feel like the budget  will be another we have a cons we have just a a   consent only that following week this is I don't  think this is time sensitive we could put it on   for the first meeting of uh September that's  you prefer I have a I will propose a motion   to defer this item as new business for our  first meeting in September which is September 3rd second motion and a second any   further discussion I see none  Madame clerk please open the r motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call the  fourth item Municipal Court Judge evaluations and retention good afternoon Nathan Emer Court  Administrator uh it's my pleasure to uh present   the 2023 Municipal Court judicial evaluations  um this one's a little different than some of   the past year so I will we'll get into that uh  in this first slide but per Charter ordinance   number 191 uh Municipal Court judges are  appointed to four-year terms and evaluated   annually according to the procedures established  by the council in accordance with Council policy   36 a Judicial evaluation committee consisting of  City Council Members review the performance of   Municipal judges uh for reviewed the performance  of Municipal judges for 202 23 and that's for   all five of our judges uh judge uh Abbott Jones  green Kerr and Zarin now this year we have two   retirements one judge has already retired and  that was Judge Abbott in on April 26 2024 and   judge Kerr is retiring September 13 2024 uh so  I bring that up because the way the appointments   work for those judges is that the the newly  appointed judges fulfill the remaining portion   of the foure Year term and so the reason you're  evaluating all five of the judges is to create   continuity in the term so even though judge  Abbott is already gone there was a piece of   his piece of his time fell into this this year  term and judge Kerr is still serving so I just   wanted to make that clear uh because it's a  little different than our normal uh annual reviews we continued the changes with the uh with  the process that we started last year so uh we   had uh as well actually that's the next slide as  required by uh Council policy we did stakeholder   surveys regarding regarding the performance of  Judges stakeholders included attorneys practicing   in Municipal Court as well as City staff defendant  victims and others uh serving in court the surveys   were summarized and provided to the evaluation  committee and they were also provided performance   measures detailing key outcomes for the court  additionally each judge submits a self evaluation   uh to discuss uh their approaches to adjudicating  case and professional development so here are some   key performance outcomes uh our case clearance  rate is at 115% uh we are uh disposing of cases   at a rate of 70 about 70% of cases uh within  180 days of filing which means we're keeping   cases moving through the system not not uh  letting them linger and we have very few cases   that get overturned on appeal uh as I started  to say before we continued the processes that   we started last year uh we actively engaged uh  Court participants uh tried to make sure that we   had no fewer than 100 surveys per judge uh which  actually when you look at the the court on the   whole ends up being about five rough nearly 500  surveys uh which is a pretty large survey sample   relative to other surveys that the city does uh  we emailed surveys to past Court participants to   allow their participations we continued to not  have the bar number on the surveys distributed   to the bars to create you know make sure they felt  comfortable uh that there wouldn't be retaliation   if any information got shared and all identified  uh attorneys that participated in Municipal Court   through that calendar year uh were provided an  OP opportunity those we had email addresses for   we emailed those we didn't have them uh we  sent them actual letters uh to give them an opportunity so provided the council elects  to retain all the judges judges Jones green   and Zarin would be retained and continue  to serve as Municipal judges judges Kerr   judge Kerr would be retained and will retire  on September 13th 2024 judge Abbott will be   retained and retired on April 26 and the  remaining terms of Judge Abbott and cerr   will be completed by judges appointed  by this Council pursuant to Municipal ordinance oh I'm hitting the wrong button the adopted budget includes the funding for  recommended judge uh judges salaries and uh the   recommended action is to retain this is missing  judge Abbott and kerr is to retain all judges uh   for the fourth year of their fouryear appointment  and authorize a 2.5% Merit increase and I'll stand   for any questions thank you Nathan uh questions  for staff beginning with council member hoisel   thank you mayor um how many surveys did we have  returned it was nearly 500 how does that compared   to the past couple of years so it's significantly  more than two years ago it's on par with last year   okay so taking off the the bar number there that's  is that one of the main reasons that we've SE seen   an increase in uh surveys return no we didn't see  an increase in the attorney surveys those hung uh   read at about last year's level which was lower  than the previous year uh we've been much more   active in ensuring that we get a good survey  sample from the citizens and so people moving   through our court uh were actively engaging  them and asking them to pull fill out surveys   we're also doing emails which we didn't do before  part of why we had so few in not last year but   the previous two years was covid and it became  uh I I guess more dangerous for my staff to go   and interact with people directly uh to request  those surveys so post covid now that we're more   able to engage the public uh safely we do that um  but what we've seen is even though we've provided   a greater opportunity for the attorneys uh to  participate uh thus far uh they haven't taken   that opportunity okay um are the survey results  um segregated ated by the docket that they that   they went through so the survey results are per  the judge and so each individual uh could comp   you know if they had multiple judges or multiple  interactions you could get one person who surveyed   multiple judges but the surveys are directed at a  a a specific Judge so if we pulled people off of   you know for a specific Judge that served on  multiple dockets those will be absorbed just   by that judge so it's not necessarily broken down  but if you if you look at the packet uh I identify   which dockets each judge did and so that's kind of  you you see the corresponding uh judge scores that   would be related to the people on those doets okay  yeah that's that's kind of one of my questions is   um people satisfaction going through for example  environmental Court as opposed to um drug court   or any of the other report that we have so  all right well so if you wanted to see you   know that specific docket if you just look to that  judge it's going to be it's going to be that the   judge that does the environmental do okay yeah and  sometimes there's crossovers or substitutions and   for that survey period there probably wouldn't be  uh so it's going to be probably like 95 90 to 99%   uh just the judge that did that environmental okay  appreciate it vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor   council member Roo has a sto every single one of  my questions um happy to hear about the um Bar   number removal I think that's important kind of  disappointed to hear that more um attorneys didn't   participate but um also um happy to see that we're  on par for uh for the number of evaluations that   we received and thank you for going the extra mile  and really trying to track people down to get the   best feedback that we possibly can so obviously it  shows it's working so thank you for that council   member Johnson thanks mayor thank you for the  presentation just to uh comment to council member   hoisel on that uh when I was on the committee the  folks who had been in front of that judge would   respond so you could see in some of the comments  they would actually name what docket they run so   if it was environmental Court you would see that  they have whatever experience in that actual court   so a lot of that is included in there if they get  really detailed if not it's just this person is   greater they're not and I'll say I believe in the  packets that I submitted to you all I pulled the   comments out of the surveys and put those comments  in that that second page so it's the second page   for each judge has all of the comments from all  of the surveys council member glassco um I know   councilman or councilwoman vice mayor Ballard and  I um had the chance to look at the performance   appr appraisal rview so we saw each one of these  um line it by line item every single survey and   I was very impressed normally sometimes some  people complete surveys that complete it when   they're unsatisfied not when they're satisfied and  even the unsatisfied individuals in the surveys   offer pretty overwhelmingly support overwhelming  support for uh the judges even if they weren't   satisfied with the decision they thought they  were treated fairly and equitably and I think   it was a pretty impressive review of all of our  judges and I think it spoke highly to all of them   I review entire packet so well done for  our court system and well done for all   of our judges and I'll be supporting rain  in greas I see no further questions for   staff thank you Nathan we will now  open it up for public comment are there George Theo Harris 2115 South cha um I  don't know if any of you have actually went   down to the courthouse one time I took uh Levant  and uh uh uh James clendenon down there and the   judge just I guess because you guys can reaffirm  him or reappoint him or whatever and um you guys   really need to do that I mean or do we need to  get John Kennedy from Louisiana because he'll   Grill them um but I'm not so thinking that the  judges I think sometimes they're too lenient   uh we can give some cases but I don't want to  do that so I really think you should put this   off until you've looked at the judges and and  I guess he's read some uh some uh stuff some   some of their from the people but uh some of  their replies but uh are their what's happened   to them in the court but yeah I think I I I  just wouldn't willy-nilly just reappoint them   all I I think you should ask some questions  because um I'm starting to wonder we we've   got a we got this one person had three dogs  killed and the judge is so lenient they let   him get more dogs no no come on we got to  do something about that so I I just I just   wouldn't just check a box and send it on I  I think you should do some research thank you any further public comment I see none  we'll bring it back to the bench I see a   motion to from council member glas with a  motion to retain all judges and that they   seek an authorize a merit increase do I need  to be more specific than that okay thank you   second uh thank you to both of you for serving on  that committee uh we appreciate that you took the   time so we have a motion in a second any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the role motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call  the next mayor before we do that I'm sorry   keeping with the craziness of today if you could  reconsider item number three our presenter will   be out of town on the 3 and ask that you schedule  that for the 10th I motion sorry I motion to move   item number reconsider uh to defer that item  to September 10th is fine motion and a second   by vice mayor Ballard second yes any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the RO motion passes 70 Madam clerk please call  the next item ordinance amending chapter 6.04   pertaining to Animal Services hello mayor council  I'm Jan jarmin and I'm with the uh Law Department   I'm actually presenting on behalf of of the  witch toop Police Department Animal Services   um but I I lost my my animal services fellow  a couple hours ago but I'm here on on behalf   of them uh I'm here to talk to you about a few  amendments we were requesting to title six um one moment do it that way uh just to remind we went  to workshop on this item so to remind you in 2023   and Animal Service Advisory Board convened a  subcommittee uh to recommend some changes to   some animal ordinances especially uh pertaining  to licensing um after multiple meetings uh the   subcommittee took their uh recommendations back to  the full Animal Service Advisory Board who voted   uh in favor of the recommendations made um we then  took those recommendations to the witch police   department and to finance with the licensing and  talked about which ones could we actually do now   which ones do we need an ordinance to complete  and which ones can we do without an ordinance   so that's where we are on this um and and that's  what this slide uh talks about so we have made a   few uh recommendations for uh ordinance changes to  Animal Services first I'll tell you um that we are   recommending a couple changes to our dangerous  dog ordinance that is a civil ordinance not a   criminal ordinance and it's one where we deem a  dog dangerous and you have to put a sign up and   give public notice um that your dog is dangerous  um right now if you have a dog deemed uh level   two dangerous you have to put it in a and level  one sorry you have to put it in a um you have to   keep it at home or if you take it outside of  your home it has to be muzzled um or if you   have to leave town and and have it um boarded  you can't just leave it with a family member   or a kid down the street you have to take it to  um a boarding facility if you have a dog that's   been deemed dangerous we want to open that up a  little bit and say that that dog may also go to   an animal behaviorist um because maybe you want  to have it evaluated to see if it's a good pet   for your home maybe you have some work that you  need done with the dog so we want to expand where   a dog can go once it's been deemed dangerous we  also are recommending a change right now if you   have a dog deemed dangerous level one you are requ  required to have a pen um that goes in into cement   into your yard um and the problem is if you have  a Chihuahua deemed dangerous not that that happens   very often but if you have a small dog deemed  dangerous and you live in an apartment you can't   put a pen in your apartment so that dog can't  be released that dog will be euthanized frankly   because you'll have to move and get a house where  you can have a pen um or or you'll have to let   the dog go so at this point we are requesting uh  that we give some discretion to the Animal Service   uh the person who makes the determination and let  that person determine whether there needs to be a   pen or not some cases there will be a pen if you  have a large dog that one year a few years ago we   had one that busted through the plate glass window  after the mailman or mail carrier letter carrier   um that dog needs a pen um so it'll be based on  the facts of the case instead of every single   dog requires a pen we're also uh requesting that  all dogs and cats over five months be required   to get a microchip um Lieutenant nstead who was  with me here earlier today said they have over   200 animals in the shelter right now and only  15 have been found to have microchips we know   it will be hard to enforce this ordinance but we  need to send a message to the community get your   animals microchipped your dogs and your cats  because if that cat sneaks out even an inside   cat we want to have the ability to find the owner  and get it back to the owner we'd also and we're   going to have a community um some Outreach on  this we're going to do a lot of education on   this um because it's also very important that  they keep uh the information updated on that   microchip um we are also requesting uh just to  change the run- atlarge penalty and increase it   to a misdemeanor it's a fine only right now this  doesn't change anything um in terms of mandatory   fines um or or any kind of no mandatory jail  time but if you had a dog that continuously was   uh at large with this we could put  them on probation with a requirement   that they keep their dog inside so it  just gives a little bit more ability for   a judge to make orders that the judge  doesn't have the ability to currently make second set of require of requests that we're  making to you uh what did not this did not really   come from your uh committee from your Animal  Service Advisory Board they weren't against this   but this wasn't part of the committee work um this  came from the animal services and we would request   to increase the mandatory fine on animal bites  um from $200 to $500 a second offense from 500   to 1,000 and a third offense from 1,000 to 2500  we have an epidemic in this city we have too many   animal bites and we think it's important to send a  message to the community that we will not tolerate   animal bites um and this is the only way frankly  we know how to do it it does also give the ability   to put a person on probation but that's always  been there that's not a change the only requested   change here is to increase the mandatory fines the  fine people always ask me this the only way you   can track fines in court it's per defendant not  per dog um so there are ways people can get out of   it I suppose if if the wife is an owner one time  and the husband's an owner another time I can see   how that could happen but most of the time there's  usually one person who claims ownership of the the   animals but there's no way to to track a dog we  have to track an owner finally we have a batch   of Licensing amendments we request first I want  to tell you the good news and that is finance is   already the licensing department is already making  changes and they didn't need an ordinance to do it   they're already meeting with their computer vendor  to make getting a license easier um now there are   a few ordinance changes that would help them um  first of all we're requesting that dogs may be   license for up to 36 months depending on their  type of vaccine so if you have a three-year   vaccine you can get a three-year license you won't  get a price break um just because we're trying to   make this easier not more difficult for figuring  out what people owe um but we think it would be   easier for someone to get the 36 month if they  want to they don't have to you can get a oneye   if you only want to pay for one year at a time  we are also asking um that we are removing you'll   see a lot of strikethroughs on that ordinance uh  in the license section and it's not that we're   changing everything but there's this ordinance is  unique in that it says so specifically everything   a vet has to give to licensing um instead we want  licensing to make that determination so as um   technology progresses and we have easier ways to  get that information leny can just request it in a   different manner so they will still be requesting  vaccination information from vets um but we're   just not going to tell the licensing exactly how  they have to get that or how often it doesn't have   to be every day it could be once a week it could  be once a month it's whatever licensing needs uh   to get that information we're also asking to  change just to simplify uh the licensing costs   for dogs there was some discussion by the way  the committee did recommend licensing cats and   that went uh to the board but the Witchita Police  Department we spoke with uh licensing and while   we're not necessarily against licensing ing cats  you have two things you're looking at first of all   that's much more controversial than LIC licensing  dogs that will need to go to dabs um and that's   going to be a longer process but more important  is number two licensing isn't ready for that we   are not very good right now at licensing dogs we  need to get a lot better and that's why licensing   is talking to the vender to figure out how can we  get notices out to people to license their dogs we   are not ready for cats so hopefully someday in the  future if the council wants to see us do cats we   can do that but for now we're only ready for dogs  we are requesting to change the fee on dogs to   $15 flat if it's spayed or neutered and you add 35  making it $50 if you have a dog that's not spayed   not neutered so that's our recommendation  so um that leaves us with a few licensing   recommendations and and some increased penalties  and with that I will stand open for questions   thank you for that presentation council  member hoisel thank you mayor uh thank   you Jan I appreciate your work and the work  of everybody had a hand in this um with the   uh three dogs um raising the limit to three dogs  does that include pits no you can't have more than   two pits okay so the two pits I'm sorry was that  not on my I want to make sure everybody knows I   was requ recommending uh part of this ordinance is  recommending you can have three dogs without a man   animal maintenance permit or three cats without  an animal maintenance permit um so it just raises   that number there'll be fewer animal maintenance  permits but it wouldn't apply to pit bulls okay   thank you um now in regards to the the the dog  pin requirement and the fence requirement that's   also to give leeway to our supervisors that way  in case people aren't using the pin or the fences   aren't necessarily in the shape that we want it  to be the supervisor can come in and say know   that's not secure right yes and I think it will  allow us to focus on the cases where we need more   oversight so if we build fewer pens we'll get out  there quicker to look at those pens and we still   have the same ability to do something about it if  they're not quality pens okay appreciate that um   for Bob um I know we have a bunch of changes going  on right now uh when with the animal services   animal control or animal show filter uh when do  we plan on uh promoting that and kind of enacting   some of those changes and letting the public know  what we have going on there the Staffing changes   have already started job descriptions been  prepared and I think they're working through   the recruitment process right now um I I need to  visit with staff but I would think that we could   discuss those changes or outline those changes  for the public in the near future okay yeah   appreciate that uh yeah that's that's all I have  right now I'll have some more during comment section I see no further questions for  staff I do have just a couple though do   you know how many um you said there have  been too many animal bites how many animal   bite complaints have we had um and can  you give us more data I actually don't   have that uh Lieutenant ninet probably have  that um as a prosecutor I can tell you when   I was Prosecuting the docket uh it was one of  the more common charges you'd see but I don't   have I don't have a number thank you I will now  open it up for public comment thank you very much GE the you Harris I have to leave and go do  some stuff for the neighbor night out thing but   but I wanted to tell you that we compared uh six  other cities uh I was was on the committee was   actually the chairman we we looked at six other  cities our size Aurora Colorado Arlington Texas   Minneapolis Minnesota Omaha Nebraska Tampa Florida  and Tulsa Oklahoma three were above us and three   were below us in in uh population and all six  of those all six not five out of six not four   out of six all six licensed cats and dogs so if  you guys don't want to do cats right now because   of whatever can you give me some letterhead so I  can send it to those six cities and tell them how   much smarter we are here CU we don't license  cats because it's just ridiculous so thank you I will ask a question for staff really  quick um I understand that obviously we're   trying to be creative on how we can uh  gain some Revenue um we're not trying   to overplace people whether they have cats  or dogs but um as you mentioned we're quote   we're not good at licensing dogs right now um are  there any improvements to that system specifically   what are those improvements so that we can get  better with dogs and then uh possibly if that   is something that Community wants uh how cats  would be a license possibly I think one of the   biggest problems is that people don't get notice  that their um their license has expired and we   are working with the vendor uh to see if we can  send out email notifications we also don't make   it very easy to get your firsttime license  you can't just get online and order up your   firsttime license you have to come down to City  Hall um so we are working with the vendor also um   that we could anybody could do an online license  immediately you can already renew online but we   think it's important for first-time applications  to be online as well we think that education is   going to be a big part I my daughter's friend has  his dog this cute little dog she gotten Carthage   he's full breed so she didn't get him here and  she didn't know that you have to have a license   she has him vaccinated and takes him to the vet  regularly and loves him to death and takes him   down to the farm and Art Market and uh doesn't  have a license and I think it's because people   don't know uh so we need and that's where our uh  our Advisory board can get in there with us and   help us get some education component we need to  get out to wolfstock well I mean you're already   an animal lover if you're wolfstock but we need  to get out into the community and make sure people   know that they need to have licenses mayor also  we have um a position a vacant position in Animal   Control we're converting that to administrative  support in that animal services that uh person   will be responsible not only for telephone traffic  and website traffic which is substantial at times   but also finding some additional strategies for uh  uh increasing our dog licensing and uh we believe   that with what Jan just outlined well as well as  new person putting time into it that we'll see a   significant increase in licensing council member  Glascock just one quick question thank you mayor   you had said that currently we have no ability  to take licenses online not first time would   you recommend we wait till loation until this  could be taken online or is it not that large   would I wait for what for us to implement  these until it could be taken online actually   the licensing uh section we're not asking in  the ordinance we're asking that that go into   effect January 1 and we should be able to have  that online by then yes okay awesome thank you   I had one more question about a number from  previous you had mentioned that currently we   have 200 animals in animal services but only 15  are microchipped um are those microchip data the   data from those microchips are they out of date  is that the reason why we can't get a hold of   dog owners or cat owner he wasn't specific I  know I know just from speaking them with them   on a regular basis that it is people don't keep  them up to date enough so of those 15 I did not   ask him today's numbers but it is very common  that they will call they will try to reach and   there's no good number anymore which is why part  of our education component is going to have to be   people need to keep up with their information on  the microchip thank you we'll continue with public comment name is Haron basam I live 5514 South  Santa Fe it's District 3 uh actually I used to   work for animal control and uh the first  time um licenses were handled by the Vets   at that point uh whenever you went and got your  your shots uh most people would get their diser   shots and the rabies shots and you'd fill out  the paperwork and the vet would submit that to   uh the city and that's how your first license  was received um and just a quick comment on   the micro chipping uh some animals due to  their age or health that could be a problem   I know at least again back in the 80s uh sometimes  rabies shots could be harmful to your animals so   there was an exception made to whether or not  they had to get a rabies shot to get your license   and I would suggest the same thing if the vet  believes that it would be harmful to the pet to   be microchip that there' be an exception written  into the ordinance that's all the comments I have   council member hoisel thank you mayor thank you  harle I appreciate you coming up and speaking I   do believe there is an exemption for if the vet  feels like the microchip is uh would be harmful   to it um but in regards to your experience um were  there issues with getting the Vets to turn the   paperwork in because that's one thing I've heard  is that there's a lot of vets out there who don't   there were a couple of vets during the time that  I worked that uh didn't turn them in they actually   kept the money they collected the fees they kept  the money we wound up going to court over it and   actually our the IRS got involved with it as well  because he didn't report that additional income so   certainly vets are going to be like anyone else  going to have a lot of good ones you're going to   have some bad ones and some of them are going to  follow the rules and some of them aren't all right   well thank you sir I appreciate you providing uh  some insight with your experience okay thank you my name is Ellen corner I serve on the district  Advisory Board is for district one and I also   served on the subcommittee that uh developed  these ordinances I just wanted to talk to you a   little bit about the mandatory microchipping  there are many reasons why we would ask for   mandatory microchipping one is to prove ownership  the second one is to return the pet back to the   owner the most important one is to prove that the  animals are up to date on their bab's vaccination   what the status of their the rabies vac station  is and um I think that especially on cats cats   are sometimes very hard to tell apart you may  have a lot of of tabies that look alike and   so one Tabby bites someone and they grab that  dog that cat up and they say oh what had rabies   vaccination there's no proof that that animal  had had has had its rabies vaccinations unless   is microchipped and I run Spain neuter Kansas  and this has been on the news and we've had   people call in and I've actually had someone say  well you know if a mandatory microchipping goes   through then add microchipping to my animal he's  getting two dogs spayed next Monday so I think   that making it mandatory will increase that  happening the other thing is I sometimes get   calls from people who have moved out of state  and they say we need to show proof that this   animal has been vaccinated for rabies and so  they say can you send me proof and I tell them   I don't know what animal you're presenting them  did you get a microchip for that animal because   that's the only way I feel comfortable telling  someone that their animal has been vaccinated   for rabies uh because I would not want to be  responsible for doing so it's important for   have to have this microchipping I know some people  are against it but and it will take time to build   up and yes it'll take education but I think it's  very important for you to pass that part of that okay any further public comment I see none thank  you for the three speakers we'll bring it back to   the bench council member hoisel thank you mayor  um just a couple of things um I would encourage   us I think I brought it up before but with the the  the um the attendance at the dog parks how that's   picking up I think maybe getting some signage out  there just to let people know about the new rules   and encourage them to go um get their animals  chipped and licensed that would be helpful   um this is an elen talked about it too we have  such a issue right now with overcrowding at the   animal shelter um that's leading to in part the um  increased number of euth in Asia race that we have   so getting your pet chipped that is defin defitely  something that will help with the burden there um   and Jan again I appreciate all your work on this  um there is one issue I do feel like we should   take a look at too um and that's what our current  policy is in regards to owners who have had their   dog seized or are in court but their dogs still  keep getting out there's no accountability there   and also you kind of handed at it earlier too um  there there might be an animal that belongs to the   household but one one person there will continue  to get fined as opposed to the entire household I   don't know if there's anything we can do um to  address T now way it's not a a husband one day   and a wife one day and so they're they're jumping  back and forth and AV voiding accountability there   so if we could get um just some information on  that and some possible changes to help kind of   um Corner that Loop there um and that's all I  have right now any further comments From the Bench I see none so I move to approve and  place the ordinance on first reading second   motion and a second any further discussion  I see none Madame clerk please open the RO motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call the  next item 2023 annual comprehensive financial   and 2023 popular annual financial report good  morning mayor Mark Manning with the Department   of Finance uh I know you've had a long day but  I would tell you that the next item is one of   the more important things that you'll do each  year in my opinion at least and that is uh the   presentation of the annual com comprehensive  financial report or what we call the Acer uh   the Acer is very comprehensive uh we start on it  in about November and I think we finish in about   June uh it's also very complex there's a number  of gasby regulations that go into it very very   complicated something that we always have to keep  on top of uh and it's also very timec consuming it   takes a lot of Staff resources to develop but we  do all that because it is very very important it's   used by people like Bond rating agencies it's used  by Bond holders it's used by citizens uh so it's   a very very important document uh we could not  present we could not prepare this uh without uh at   least two people one of those is Nikki Babcock in  my office who takes care of this process from the   City side and she does a fantastic job uh the  other is our strategic partner IID Bailey and   today we have Jamie with us today they are not  only our external auditor but I would tell you   they are our strategic partner and they are very  helpful in the process so I'll just present one   more slide and then I'll invite Jamie up U sorry  there's the first slide we also prepare what we   call a paer the bottom line is the paer is a very  reader friendly short condensed version of Aer I   think it's 20 Pages uh you can find both of them  at these QR codes and we don't print very many   copies but we hand out what we call these little  bookmarks that I have pictures of so that's what   we use to communicate with people uh but with  that I'd like to uh invite Jamie to come up   Jamie Fay is with our external auditor which is ID  Bailey and she's going to conduct the rest of the presentation all right thank you Mark all right  Madame mayor and council members good afternoon   I was expecting to say good morning but but we're  good afternoon today um so as Mark said I am Jamie   Fay I am the audit partner for the city's um  annual audit um I am not going to have us go   through this big book Because as much as I really  like numbers not Everyone likes them as much as I   do um I'll give another plug for um what Mark  was talking about the popular annual financial   report is a great place to look if you want to see  some of that in a little bit more reader friendly   format um so I would suggest going there so today  we're going to talk about a little bit more a   Focus kind of what we do we're going to stay  out of the details of the numbers your finance   department does a great job of telling you about  all of that um so we'll step through when we're   talking today we are talking about the 2023 audit  so the year ended December 31st 2023 so a little   bit about my firm so I am with ID Bailey we are a  top 25 CPA and consulting firm we are founded in   1917 uh we have over 250 dedicated professionals  to the government industry government is one of   our largest Industries what that means is we have  a number of professionals across the firm that do   a number of different things so I primarily work  in the audit department so I work on the annual   audits but I work very closely with people who  do different advisory Services we do technology   Consulting so if uh one of the things that's  been fun working with the city is if there is   a question about hey we've got this weird one-off  thing going on I typically can find someone in my   firm that has dealt with it whether when they were  at a a government or when they're working with a   government so we can really strategically partner  with the city and get some more resources to the   city outside of the annual audit because everybody  loves their Auditors but they also like it when we   get done so that's a little bit more about what  we do so the service team similar to how it's   been in the past um Brian stavenger is a partner  with over 23 years of audit experience similar to   mine um I am Jamie F I've been with the firm over  15 years so we partner the audit there's a couple   different pieces of it so we kind of Co partner  it piece it off that way we have more resources   available to the city uh we kind of work back and  forth on um who's here so last year Brian was here   and now I'm here this year uh John Hagen is our  senior manager he has over eight years working   with governments um and he really is in the nuts  and bolts of the audit and then we have a number   of other professionals that we augment the team  with we also have a pension team that works on   the pension audit that's led by Lee Miller who  has over 30 years of experience and then also   we utilize it Prof professionals and different  advisory professionals within our firm to make   sure we are putting together uh the best package  possible for the city so when we talk about an   audit there's a lot of different ways that term  is thrown around so what we're talking about in   terms of an audit of the annual um comprehensive  financial report is it is performed in accordance   with generally accepted auditing standards um  so gas kmeg government auditing standards which   is also termed gas um single audit so uniform  guidance and then also the passenger facility   charge audit guide for public agencies basically  what that means is there's a number of different   regulations that we need to follow when we do  our audit procedures so we follow those and then   we come up with with the audit results so for the  objectives the audit really is designed to obtain   reasonable Assurance about whether the financial  statements are free of material misstatement so   I'll explain a little bit what that means what  that means is we have a materiality threshold   so we do not look at every single transaction we  do not recalculate things to the penny typically   um if we're doing detail testing we absolutely  will get into the details of single transactions   but we don't look at everything um so we look at  things as a reasonable um reasonable Assurance for   those financial statements so if there are things  that come up we always report them and we talk to   the city and if there's questions we look through  them um and there always is things that come up   we say hey this doesn't necessarily look right we  work with the clients so we work this city and the   finance staff and say hey let's work through these  items we get to a conclusion and then we we come   to the end with our with our results so as far as  timeline so we did planning work in November and   December what that means is we're kind of in the  background doing some different forms we're maybe   having some phone calls with the city um just  kind of getting ready making a plan for what   we're going to do in the audit then we do we did  some interim testing in January February this was   a mix of an on-site visit with remote work most  of that focused around the single audit so the   federal audit that we did um and then our year-end  testing is March through May with our on-site week   typically being in May this year the city had a  cyber incident that was the week before we were   supposed to come out so we did a complete a a  complete remote audit this year which was brand   new uh I got the call from Nikki and the staff  saying here's what's going on you know we don't   really know where we're at so we pivoted we were  able to get the team rallied around we were able   to kind of work some things in our schedule  so that we could kind of move things a little   bit later for Witchita because we knew that you  needed a little time to get through things um and   I am happy to report that we did Issue the audit  opinion on June 27th which is right in line with   the normal deadline um and so really big kudos to  the finance team to Mark Nikki their team Luke um   for accomplishing that um we were able to do  that because we were able to completely work   remote we had check-ins regularly with the team  whether that be a teams meeting or a phone call   call um and then we also used an online sharing  file sharing portal to make sure we stayed   organized um and make sure everything that we  were passing back and forth was Secure and was   safe for us to exchange especially in the midst of  everything that was going on here at the city so   then at the end of the audit we come up with audit  results so the financial statement audit um has a   couple different pieces to it so the Management's  responsibility so the city's finance department   and the city's responsibility is to prepare  the financial statements in accordance with   all those standards we were talking about and  then to design Implement and maintain internal   controls relevant to that preparation and what  that means is you make sure you have somebody   reviewing things you have the right sign offs  you have more than one person looking at things   and just making sure the checks and balances are  there so that is the Management's responsibilities   in what we do with the city now the auditor's  responsibilities that's ours we need to obtain   as I said reasonable Assurance about whether those  financial statements are materially uh misstated   or not so we look at things like we are exercising  professional skepticism we are making sure we are   using professional judgment when we are looking at  things there's a lot of times when questions will   come up and we have to kind of use our experience  and say yep that seems reasonable that percentage   seems reasonable um and ask questions that way  we identify and assess the risk of material   misstatement so what that means is every a we do  we go into and we say where is the risk here where   should we be spending our time A lot of times  we'll say if we only had eight hours what would   we want to look at um so we make sure that we are  focusing our audit procedures on the things that   have the most risk associated with them it doesn't  necessarily mean we've seen issues in the past uh   but something like Revenue recognition in general  in basically every entity is something that you   want to take a second look at because make sure  there's a lot of rules around it and that those   rules are being followed um we need to to make  sure that we understand what the city's internal   controls are and that we are testing those  to a reasonable level so hey let's sit down   with the finance staff and figure out what are  the procedures that they follow and then let's   make sure that they follow those procedures um we  use um a number of different procedures to look   at accounting estimates so accounting estimates  are basically numbers that are are um determined   based on a number of different factors so when  you pay an invoice you know exactly what that   invoice is going to be but when you're talking  about something that's more like a pension um   or an OPB liability that's a little bit more  fluid you got to get some different actuaries   involved and some different estimates involved in  that so we look at those accounting estimates and   make sure that those seem reasonable and then we  really we make sure that the overall presentation   of the financial statements is is good and make  sure that it is in accordance with all of those   standards so this year the audit results came  up as an unmodified opinion what that means   is that is a clean opinion that's what a lot of  people call it that's what you want that's what   you've received in the past and so that's your  financial statement audit opinion I'm going to   talk about this in in two different buckets so the  financial statement audit is kind of the regular   operations of the city the other piece is going to  be the single audit and that's the federal money   so right now we're talking about financial  statement audit so received an unmodified   opinion which means your financial statements  are free of material misstatement we didn't   find anything that was materially misstated in  there um a couple things to to note the adoption   of this new standard we call it gasby 996 it's  basically a leases for software type standard   that was implemented this year that so if you're  in the details of the of the acur you might see   a restatement of about 1.7 million um and about 1  million for the governmental and proprietary funds   that has to do with adopting this new standard  when there is a new standard like this the rules   a lot of times will say Hey you have to restate  that as of the beginning of the year so that is   what we did um and then there was one finding  that we identified so through our procedures if   there are certain things that come up we need  to put them in our report one of the things is   if there's a a material journal entry that comes  up that we say hey this number doesn't look like   what we expect it to we work the city determine  nope there's an adjustment that needs to be made   um that's where this finding comes into play there  was one material journal entry that had to do with   Investments there was something with the valuation  um software it was after the Cyber incident um   so something didn't work quite right when we uh  ran that through ran the Investments through our   software we got a different number than the city  did took a look more closely determined that yep   the number we were using was more accurate um  so made an adjustment there subsequent to that   conversation um in talking with Nikki and Mark  there's been procedures put in place to check   that quarterly um and just make sure that tool  is working so that can kind of Rectify that in   the future so next talking about the federal audit  um so the federal audit is over the city's Federal   expenditures so about 371 million was spent in  federal money last year um so for 23 and what we   have to do is we have to test a certain amount  of that depending on certain risk factors and   coverage and dollars so we ended up testing three  programs the Aquis beds division aquafer storage   recharge um some covid-19 money so coron virus  state and local fiscal recovery funds and then   the wifia program so the the wiia program we had  tested last year um so what we do in that part of   the audit is it's more compliance based we make  sure did this money get spent the way it should   have were there controls over those spends were  the proper reports filed did they did the city   request the money in the right way um those  types of things we did not have any findings   over this Federal audit this sometimes called  a single audit um and an unmodified opinion was   received so that's what you want and what you got  in the past as well passenger facility charge is   the other piece of our opinion um so there's  an unmodified opinion there with no findings   we follow the passenger facility charge audit  guide for that that has to do with the airport   and some of those charges that come through um so  that's great news as well next up is the letter to   governance so part of what we um issue and part of  our deliverables is a letter to governance so to   the council um with a few things in there that I  just want to kind of point out if you're reading   them so significant accounting estimates is the  first one that that really just tells you what   are the things that we consider to be significant  accounting estimates those are typically in here   there are the pension asset or liability and  then the OPB which is other post-employment   benefits those are really the big the big things  as far as accounting estimates there are outside   parties that are used for some of that work  and then we do some recalculations and making   sure some of that looks reasonable um sensitive  disclosures so this has to do with what are some   of those disclosures that seem a little more um  important for us to take take a second look at um   Revenue recognitions in there measurement of fa  fair value of Investments some conversations on   Star bonds pledge revenue and then contingencies  and commitments are a couple of the things we   noted um an emphas emphasis of matter is in there  as well about um there was a an immaterial very   small amount of fraud that was um discovered by  the city during the year it was brought to our   attention we did not find it it was immediately  rectified by um internal audit they found it they   worked through it um it's just something that when  we do see that that happens throughout the year we   have to put it in our um communication so any kind  of things like that come up like that um it was   related to a specific cash receipt process again  that was dealt with and um there have been steps   to rectify it next item would be past adjustments  so if there was anything that we noticed that was   wrong but the city did not adjust it but it was  below an amount we had to say was material that   would be reported here we didn't have any of those  past adjustments which is great news um and then   an emphasis of matter was just included for in  the um implementation of that new standard gasby   96 that we were talking about so if you read that  letter those are a couple of the things that might   stand out and hopefully give you a little bit  more background on what those mean one item I did   want to point out um in FY 23 the city had a fund  balanced policy change this isn't anything that we   we tested or recommended or anything it was just  mostly for your information so the general fund um   Reserve policy um change to 15% of the projected  general fund expenditures the permanent Reserve   is 3% of projected general fund expenditures and  then the pension Reserve 2.5% of projected general   fund expenditures now it's important to maintain  some fund balance in funds and make sure you just   kind of have a thumb on what that looks like um  you want to have that for financial stability   especially when you're talking about what do the  budgets look like how do we spend this money um   really looking at that fund balancing as part of  uh or the fund balance policy as part part of that   conversation is a great tool because it'll help  you kind of maintain that Financial stability so   if something like an a global pandemic happens  you've got some understanding there of how the   city is going to be able to Contin continue to  operate then outside of the audit we also do a   few other engagements with the city um these have  kind of come up through initial RFP so there are   some of these that we have done since day one with  the city and then a couple that have come up kind   of through conversations so agreed upon procedures  are not quite an audit they're more hey the city   has these things or other entities has have these  certain checklist items they want us to look at   we do look at those items and then issue a report  based on that so the ones that are completed have   to do with the landfill sales tax bonds and the  star bonds we did those agreed upon procedures   those are completed um no big items to note in  any of those and then we have three more that are   on in process so anytime there is HUD elect iic  submission there's something called a Rea filing   that goes along with that that is due in September  we are working on that and then ice century and   Century to are two agreed upon procedures that  came out of some conversations just saying hey   we we kind of want to get a better handle on a  few things can you help us with this we did those   procedures last year um and we are also doing  them again this year so those are in process those   items do not have any kind of deadline externally  imposed for those I Center and Century to so it's   just working with the city and making sure we  get through those reasonably and then the last   item on here is the Witchita retirement system  audit so that is having to do with the pension   audit we completed that audit right alongside  of the financial statement audit team um and   got that done as well we also have assisted the  city with some technology um Consulting and um   when that fraud was discovered we um talked to  them with our forensics department just to make   sure everything looked good um but these were the  really the engagements with kind of a deliverable   and a report that came out of it so what's next I  know everyone's favorite topic is is uh Accounting   Standards so these are the gbes that are coming up  if you want to read them gasby number 100 and 101   are the two that will be in effect for next year  um 100 is accounting changes and error Corrections   and for a lot of my smaller governments they  really don't have a lot of changes they'll have   to make here um for the city of Witchita it'll  mean there are some things in the report that   just need to look a little different um and Nikki  and her team and Mark are going to be on top of   that and then the other one is gasby number one  101 this has to do with compensated absences so   think sickly vacation time that kind of um concept  there's some a standard coming out that's going to   be a little bit more robust than what we have now  um that one's going to take some work so kudos to   Mark and his team because they have been on top of  every gasby implementation so far um and next year   will be no exception um with the standards coming  out um the other thing that we offer up to um the   city is kind of our ongoing communication  throughout the year so we have quarterly   calls with them to just check in make sure  everything's going well um in a lot of cases   honestly we talk more than quarterly but we have  something on the books every quarter um we also   have online Publications and webinars um and then  if there is something that comes up and they say   hey I need a specialist on XYZ um typically we  can get somebody on the phone pretty quickly even   if it's just to ask a random question about hey  the city of Witchita is thinking about doing this   do we have anybody um that does that and maybe we  connect you with another city so with that I will   field any questions you may have questions for our  external auditor beginning with council member hoo   thank you mayor um you did talk about one finding  that you had early on in your presentation and it   was um after the Cyber attack um was that finding  due to the Cyber attack or complications nope so   um it did not have to do with the Cyber attack um  what happened was there was a valuation tool for   the Investments that got used and it was something  with the log into that and getting out to that   that tool um and that tool just wasn't updating  the balance properly so it sounds like that has   been rectified at this point okay I appreciate  that were there any lingering effects from the   Cyber attack that you guys were able to identify  so the only thing that happened with the Cyber   attack is it was just a little more challenging to  get audit documentation remote um and we tried to   balance that with well do we come on site but if  we came on site we really can't access anything   here anyways um so it was really just helping  the team balance you know which has a lot going   on let's make sure we let them get their stuff  done but we also want to try to meet the deadline   um so the lingering effects really were just the  workload of making sure Nikki and her team were   able to get everything done and and uploaded to us  so just a lot more communication I would I would   venture to Guess that Nikki probably said she has  had a lot more conversations with us this year   than she has in the past um but it all ended up  where we were able to get it all submitted on time   which a lot of us were a little skeptical that  that was going to happen but I'm really thankful   that it was okay thank you appreciate it Jamie you  mentioned uh the fraud that we as a city disclose   as soon as possible can you go a little bit  further into that and the um final steps that we made I don't have any other notations  noted other than um it was brought to   me by the internal audit Department  she called me and said hey I found   this um we're going to take some  steps they worked through with it um I'll let Mark speak a little further yeah we had an incident last year that  I think received a little bit of publicity we   had a Municipal Employee in the police department  that was uh involved in some things they probably   should have been involved in regarding City  funds and some s subsidiary accounts that we   discovered and uh internal audit worked a lot  on that and we disclos that to our external auditor thank you I had one more question this is  probably for city manager Leon obviously people   you've brought up cyber incident multiple times  so Community wants to know when they can get a   response regarding what the city did uh has done  and will now be doing moving forward after this   cyber incident right mayor you and I visited about  this previously and we're targeting before the end   of the month in terms of being able to to give  a summary of what we went through and what its   impact was thank you thank you very much for  the presentation thank you to Mark and the team   uh for doing this and Jamie and your team uh  for conducting this audit we will now uh start   questions from uh the bench and start with  public comment are there any individuals here   to speak about the audit in the financial  report I see none we'll bring it back to   the bench are there any further comments  from Council Members if there are none   I will move to approve uh by receiving  and filing these reports second motion   and ass second any further discussion  I see none Madame clerk please open the   RO motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call  the next item applicant appeal of HPC 202462 hello good afternoon Scott wle from the planning  department so for this one uh as you heard this   is an appeal uh this item is being heard today  because the applicant is appealing for the city   council to approve a sign permit for the Union  Station building at 701 to 703 East Douglas   Avenue earlier this year the applicant applied  for three different types of signage for Union   Station the witcha historic preservation board  approved two of them and found that the Third   a sign permit for an 8x3 illuminated sign on  the front face of Union Station would damage   or destroy the building this is effectively  a denial unless appealed the applicant has   appealed and is here today they have a present  with presentation with more details about their   appeal and I'll provide a presentation now just  about the context and the process so in terms of   the process this item is coming to you because  of a 2022 agreement between the city of witta   and the Kansas historic preservation officer  this agreement allows for review local review   of projects instead of sending them to Topeka  and as part of that process there is an appeal   that is available to applicants in terms  of the property uh Union Station is listed   as a key contributing structure in the East  Douglas Avenue historical district it is not   individually listed on any historic registry  the East Douglas Avenue District was added to   the register of historic at Kansas places and  the national register of historic places in   2004 Union Station is listed under two Criterion  Criterion a for its association with events that   have made a significant contribution to the broad  patterns of witto history and Criterion C for its   notable architectural design and construction  with that here's a few photos of the face of it in terms of the proposed sign the applicant has  applied for a sign permit for an 8x3 illuminated   sign on the front face of Union Station it is  important to note that the sign would be mounted   into the mortar of the building and not into the  block face mortar is not permanent and often needs   to be replaced reinstalled on a regular basis  the sign is for a bank headquarters I would also note here's an illustration that shows uh  the front facade currently and then the   front facade with the proposed sign in  terms of the background uh just a brief   overview on May 25th the applicant uh  submitted their application for the   HPB to review the three items on July 8th the  historic preservation board made their initial determination at the request of the applicant  uh the HPB formed a design Review Committee   for three historic preservation board members to  work with the applicant to come up with possible   solutions to the requested signage on July 12th  the historic preservation board design Review   Committee met with the applicant to discuss  the project and review options no alternative   options were determined to be feasible for the  applicant again I'll defer to them to provide   some more overview on those on July 17th the  historic preservation board held a special   meeting to review the signage again the board  determined that the illuminated sign would damage   or destroy the historic property and recommended  denial uh for the signed permit on July 19th the   applicant submitted an email to the city clerk to  appeal the decision of the historic preservation board in terms of the review that the historic  preservation board does I would just note that   it reviews projects using the Secretary of  interior standards uh those are included in   the packet of materials that you received and  ultimately uh they found the sign would damage   or destroy a historic Place General comments made  to during the deliberations were that the sign was   not compatible with the spatial relationships  or symmetry of the building's main facade in   terms of council action as part of the appeal  process staff recommends that the city council   hear from the applicant and then also from any  member of the public who wishes to speak on this   item and then in general uh the following that  the council has the following options you can   deny the permit or you can approve the permit  in terms of uh here are some photos real quick   to show the site again this is looking to  the north more of Union Station from the side and then looking across the street so again  uh in terms of the process we encourage you to   hear from the applicant uh hear from the public  and again the two options uh the first one is   to deny the signed permit again just requires a  simple majority and this is with the findings of   the historic preservation board the second would  be to uh approve the signed permit and again just   a simple majority on this one also as part of  this you would determine there's no feasible and   prudent alternative to the proposal we recommend  uh then that you would approve the sign permit   and then also authorize the mayor to sign a letter  to the Kansas State historic preservation officer   and all of that is noted in the potential motion  language in the staff report so with that I'll   stop there and and answer any questions before  we H continue I have a question for law yes is   public comment allowed yes it is this is not  a quasi judicial proceeding this is just a   simple hearing and I believe it is appropriate  for public com I would consider it after the   applicants processes Council VI mayor Ballard  thank you mayor um just a quick question um   is it true if this passes that it may jeopardize  historic tax credit use for this building uh   that's an interesting question um as it's  not individually listed I think the owner   that would be up to the owner to discuss  that with the uh Kansas shipo historic   preservation officer to ensure that it doesn't  I don't know for sure whether it would or not council member hoisel thank you mayor um so  this is strictly to do with the sign so the   the panels and the other stuff that's going  to get passed through that's been okay by the   historic preservation correct that's correct  there were three uh three items as part of   really three applications two of them were  approved this is just solely about the sign   that you saw on the front facade okay thank  you we will now hear from the applicant oh   sorry council member tutle one more question  that's okay thank you so much I appreciate it   um Jenifer I just was going to say first of  all thank you for the document that you sent   us earlier I have it pulled up so I can use  it as a guide the one thing that I was going   to ask is um I know this is just a little bit  different than a normal Council agenda item so   when the applicant comes up do they have time  limits or is it can you just make sure we we're   following the rules I haven't done this one in  a long time thank you council member these don't   come up very often um under our city ordinance  there is no time limit for the applicant in in   this procedure process and so the applicant and  so then it says we can ask questions of them   afterwards yes you can okay thank you thank  you Scott we will have the applicant come forward yes is it on here excellent okay so am I controlling that or you  controlling that I came with this okay okay great   arrow keys okay great thank you uh Madame mayor  council my name is Mike Drury I'm with Chandler   signs from Dallas Texas and I represent um the  customer here my customer who is the future tenant   in this building at Simmons Bank and Simmons  Bank has signed a lease for this building to take   15,000 square fet they will have a retail Branch  as well as a regional office in this property um   so the obviously you've heard the whole story from  the standpoint that we applied for a standard set   of Channel letters on this building and the  historic review board we've had two meetings   actually two actual scheduled meetings and then  a subcommittee meeting in the ini in the initial   meeting we were uh denied based on as as um Scott  mentioned the spatial determinations colors size   placement they didn't like anything they they tore  us apart on it um one of the things I'd like to to   point out is the very first page on this drawing  um and we've got some more examples of actual uh   historic properties in witch but putting signs  on historic buildings is a common thing I've been   with Chandler signs for 28 years this particular  photo here is of 120 year old uh erit building in   Pittsburgh Pennsylvania this building is listed on  the National Historic register of uh of historic   buildings and we as you can see on the on the far  left of that we put a great big blade sign on this   building with complete respect to the property  everything went through the mortar there was no   damage to the building um everything is done part  of the problem is that these historic buildings   if they don't have businesses in them it's not  just preserving the structure it's preserving   the building and they have to have some sort of of  viable business in order for them to make sense so   Simmons Bank coming into this property um I will  move on here as you can see this is the the um   front elevation of the of the building with the  proposed sign we made clear note on here that the   that we're going to go through the mortar joints  we're not going to touch the the stone um in fact   we even limit the mortar joints uh penetrations  there probably would not be a total of about 10   penetrations on the entire building with this sign  in the sign industry this particular building when   we do when we do a property for any of our  customers the first thing we do is a code   search to get the latest sign ordinance this  particular building according to Witchita code   not the historic overlay but according to Witchita  code if this was just in the standard commercial   District this building would allow a 400 square  foot sign on the building that's by your witch   code we understand it's a historic building but  as you can see by our notes on the underneath   the existing elevation notification over there the  elevation is 4,800 Square ft we're we're proposing   an 84 and a half sare foot sign that is 1.76% of  the elevation the concern that the um committee   had that the historic preservation committee had  was materials historic materials well believe it   or not illuminated Channel letters are historic  materials the only thing that has changed in those   letters in the last 100 years years has been we  use aluminum instead of sheet metal we use LEDs   instead of neon and we use mod modified acrylic  instead of plain plastic for the faces so these   particular letters we've we've intentionally  luckily but intentionally the black letters are   standard for Simmons Bank so these letters are  black which matches with the colors of the Mion   and the trim and everything else here so when we  were denied by the historic preservation committee   they quoted uh let's see uh get this wrong so  I have to read it they they quoted the um oh goodness the what oh goodness I've got it  marked anyway they quoted what the um I'm   brain dead right now I'm sorry it's been a  long day obviously but the historic rules   that they go by okay the guidelines um and just  to put that in perspective they are exceedingly   vague I appreciate the reference of honoring  historic buildings but from the document you   guys currently have where this applies it  says new additions exterior alterations and a   related new construction will not destroy historic  materials features or spatial relationships that   characterize the property we're not destroying  anything we're limiting to a very small size   so when we had the first committee meeting and  we were denied we made a few modifications sub   another application and came back again at that  point with good discussion with the committee   we realized we weren't getting anywhere and  instead of saying hey let's just get denied   the historic preservation board agreed to put  a subcommittee together to have a one-on-one   meeting with us and with the ownership group  to talk about what would you accept and if I   can I will I've got a document I'd like to show  you guys I've got a copy for each one of you the goal was historic preservation board wanted to  help us put a sign on the building but they wanted   to come up with a way that they felt like did not  go um was not contradictory to what they felt like   needed to happen to the building so as you can  see in that document what we basically did and   this those highlighted Pages that's all done by  um that this was all done by Emily Taylor with the   historic planning board or historic preservation  board everywhere you see something highlighted on   there was an idea of how can we do a sign where  can we put it what are the pros and cons and in   every case including being on the Leading Edge of  the canopy I have a hotel customer where they have   big canopies and we put letters on the Leading  Edge of the canopy directly above great idea looks   great but with the way these canopies are built  and with the snow loads and the things that come   into Factor here you can't do that we looked at  the top of the building where you have the purple   horizontal going across the problem there is that  is all cast stone that has decorative coffers in   it it so we can't go there the idea of symmetry we  even thought believe it or not they were looking   at it going we want symmetry we even threw out  the idea of going okay well you want symmetry   we'll put two signs on the building and then  you're symmetrical and and if you get another   tenant we'll take one of them down I wasn't being  a smart elic being serious from the standpoint of   of symmetry so through this discussion where we  landed with the three members of the board that   were on that call we with Emily Bruce and Steven  they agreed that the bottom line is the location   of the sign the size of the sign and the type of  the sign the way the sign is mounted is the best   possible scenario what they did not agree with  and what is not documented in this in this U   write up what they did not agree with was the  red in the logo they felt like the red color   which is Simmons logo I've done 250 locations  for Simmons Bank they all have the red logo   yeah there's one or two that don't but they  felt like the red logo was was an issue so we   went back to the board for the second hearing and  that's when even with Emily and Bruce and Steven   speaking for us for this we were denied again  so our appeal here is simply to come back and   say that we are trying to put a sign there's the  the specifications on it you can see that we point   out on the on the right that we're going through  the mortar joints so we're going to maintain the   Integrity of the of the structure this shows the  actual property uh there was also a comment in the   writeup that in that that I want to point out  they they said that that we had discussed they   had recommended a pole sign as an alternative  we did discuss the alternative of Po of a pole   sign but here's the problem there twofold number  one the actual Witchita city code will not allow   us a poll sign there so even if the preservation  board says yes you can have it the code won't let   us have it secondly and I don't think I can zoom  in on this but obviously you guys are aware of   the brick work on the courtyard out front of that  building we would have to destroy a big portion of   that to try to do any sort of pole sign out there  so that was not an alternative that would work so   it was explored but it was not the best possible  alternative this drawing simply shows the the uh   um VI uh excuse me visibility distances from the  sign for ongoing traffic you can see it's 175 ft   for traffic moving that would be West and 125 from  the East that's simply to show that the size of   the sign is not overly large from that distance  it's actually smaller than industry Norm other   than the logo obviously the letters themselves  the Simmons Bank letters other historic district   signage these are signs within historic buildings  and historic districts in within witch all that   do have signs attached to the building this  particular one here is not one that's installed   yet but it was approved while we were at one of  our historic preservation board meetings they   approved this one right before they denied ours  these are other other signs within the within that District so what we're asking for is very  simple the there is yes I'll go ahead and   address it there is a small Monument sign out  front which you saw in the pictures I think   that Scott showed um that is more although  Simmons will have a panel on that that sign   is I think I've got it in my other package  I think it's like 10 inches by 4 and a half   feet is what the panels are those are more  designed for the other tenants within this   building this building as you can see in  in this drawing goes back nearly 800 feet   so Simmons bank is getting the sign on the front  of the building because they are the main tenant   taking 15,000 square ft and pretty much the bulk  of the first floor at the front of the building   they're the only tenant that will have their  own entrance from the direct exterior of the building and I believe that covers everything that  I have for you thank you very much Mike council   member glas C thank you I know this was not in  the one uh the presentation that you gave up   there but it's in the packet that you gave us um  you had said the poll sign is that the green sign   on page seven you had you had mentioned the yellow  you had mentioned the pink you had mentioned the   blue but you hadn't mentioned the green is that  the pole sign let me see the green here on this   one uh well yes that was one where the thought  was to literally set a small monument in the   Landscaping right in front of the building so  we weren't attaching to the building but we were   still having a sign in front of the building and  what was the opposition to that the opposition for   that is the foundation that would require we'd  have to tear out all of that you can't just go   set the sign there the Landscaping width when you  engineer that sign for wind loads and everything   that would be required you would have to go in  there with a a hole that's much larger than what   you can get to so you'd have to break out all  of that landscape um border concrete and some   of the um brick thank you vice mayor Ballard thank  you mayor or do you know um about the tax credit   question that I asked you you know I um Tiffany's  going to speak to that I don't know that for from   from the legal standpoint but what I can tell  you is this I have put signs on at least 20   historic buildings and no one's ever been worried  about a tax the tax credit I would that not that   not that it's been a discussion put it that way  yeah it's never been a discussion so that's why   I I won't say that I know the answer but I'd be  shocked if it hadn't come up before if it was an issue can Tiffany come forward I'm Tiffany  Stokes with accidental management the   remodel was done back in 2018 and  that's when we filed for historic   tax credits we've passed that fiveyear  so it will not affect any historic tax credits any further questions for  the applicant I see none that's   it thank you all right also no questions thank  you for staff I see none so we will now open   it up for public comment are there individuals  who would like to speak regarding this specific topic good afternoon mayor uh vice mayor city  council Mr manager Jeff Flur uh president of   downtown witch Hall 505 East Douglas Avenue uh I'm  here today to provide support for the favorable   consideration of the appeal um Union Station uh  In My Memory was setting dormant not too long ago   uh actually went back and asked Gary when they  bought it it's been 12 years ago they bought it   but it seems like yesterday in some regards it  was a dark campus nothing was actually in the   the building they were talking about nothing was  in the depot nothing was in uh what was the hotel   now it's a multi-use uh building all of that was  dormant and so it's been incredible to see this   firm take on a project that literally I think I  think I was here six years before someone actually   touched it because it was such a massive project  to undertake today though as you visit the site   it's a very vibrant setting uh of activity uh we  have worked with the team in a number of ways uh   to bring this whole complex back to viy I think  this project led to a very favorable decision by   Cargill to be next door to it because again  Cargill invested uh and built their Regional   headquarters in protein adjacent to this property  so in just these two have complimented each other   uh part of the work in in working with accidental  management we actually took the company CEO Gary   oborne uh and several of the city council members  at the time so Levant Williams uh and Janet Miller   were two that actually traveled with us to  Portland State University uh and that was a   a project where literally Union Station was sought  out by Portland State University they were working   on historic preservation across the country and  part of the conversation as we were there was   how is it you work these historic buildings  in fact you want to bring them back to vital   vital commercial use in your District we do have  guidelines so how do you work with the guidelines   but then also work within the community to apply  those guidelines so that you can have a vibrant   uh a building backend that's in the portfolio  of your assets if you will so again we worked   through that and we're really excited for the  fact that Simmons Bank wants to locate here as   a regional headquarters if you think about Union  Station as itself it's an Institutional building   Financial Bank banking is an Institutional use  so we think these two really complement each   other in that way and so and we do also understand  that the company needs signage again I think that   there's been an exhaustive search here to figure  out how can that signage be incorporated I love   the fact that they actually are going into the  mortar joints because in time if that needed to   be repaired or removed it could be done I remember  working on the jury Plaza project and they wanted   a skybridge uh as an urban planner I like people  on the street but also understood their fiscal   model and that is they needed the skybridge so we  then discussed how is it you construct that sky   skybridge where it's not an impediment in the  skyline it's in glass and so all that said is   that these projects we try to work uh with them  uh understanding that historic preservation is   very critical uh I wish we had more historic  buildings to bring back into active Commerce   but we also need vital uses within the buildings  and so we do believe that the developer has really   exhausted what those opportunities are in signage  uh we support the recommendation that's coming   before you today uh and again be glad to answer  any questions you may have of us as well so thank you we will continue with public comment so good afternoon mayor and city  council again I'm Tiffany Stokes with   Occidental management Occidental has over  25 years of experience in development with   historic properties we recognize the importance of  preserving these buildings and we believe the best   way to do that is to have viable bus businesses  in the buildings um we've kind of proven we've   talked with the committee I was on the part of  the committee and went through those meetings   and discussed all the options in the planner bed  two signs all the different options and we all   came up as this is the only viable option for  the signage Simmons Bank has to have signage to   in order to flourish in their business and the  only way that they can do that is to put it in   that the spot that we're proposing so we hope that  you will recognize that as a council and approve it council member Johnson thanks mayor  uh just for the previous speaker I did   have a quick question for accidental um it  has been indicated there's not a I guess   known impact on historic tax credit  but if it were to negatively impact   that and make you lose whatever the next  piece of that is how would that impact you I'm gonna ask Steve Lea to come up here okay uh Steve lebida also with ocidental 165 South  Rock Island um Brandon we have already closed out   our state tax credits we actually like Tiffany  said we started that in 2018 uh it we did do   the fiveyear kind of peel back program to where  we have to go for the five years we closed that   out last year uh with the state and collected  our final uh tax certificate so uh obviously we   still don't want to damage the building we still  have to comply with shipo and NPS we understand   that but the tax credits uh that's kind of all  had a bow put on it and done so thank you yeah if I could um what I would offer is that with the  tax credits if um if the appeal is granted and you   approve the sign permit it does not commit them  to installing the sign they will still have the   opportunity to consult with the shipo and just  verify uh that they can they would be able to do   that without jeopardizing any future tax credit  should they choose so any action by the council   does not commit them to a specific uh course of  action that would jeopardize those they still   have an opport for conversation the other thing  I would emphasize and I'd emphasize that to the   shipo too is that uh it's the way that they're  proposing to install it would be through the   mortar so it can be easily reversed and does  not have a permanent effect on the structure   one question for you Scott are there any other  feasible Alternatives um you know that's been   the thing that everyone's uh been working on and  uh you know I salute the applicant and also the   historic preservation board for getting together  and going through the options especially in the   packet that you that you received um they went  through a variety of different scenarios so at   this point I do believe that they've looked at  all of the options that came to my mind and have   gone through whether or not they'll work and  have determined that it they really won't work   for the situation that they're in council member  hoisel thank you mayor um if they wanted to go   for a poll sign is that something we could get a  waiver for um you know if they wanted to explore   that um it might be it might take something  like a variance to the sign code in order   to do it but uh just right off the cough I'm  not exactly sure but that would be at least   the first option that I would look to okay  thank you thank you SC any further public comment I know a lot of and I was very much  involved in the whole original remodel five   years ago and I know a lot of people have  talked about the mortar joints that they   can be repaired and I know this is kind of  a technicality but those mortar joints are   actually only 5 years old because we actually  had to ret point the whole building so for what   it's worth it's not even historic mortar  we're going into so um there was something else oh as far as the pull sign um there was a  little more uh to that as well in that whole Plaza   um there's tons of underground electrical that  runs to the kiosks all the light poles we've   actually put in a bunch of empty conduits for  Sight and Sound and there's four water lines   that ran over and so the other thing is the it  would almost become just not feasible on the   economic side because you'd be spending probably  10 times more than the sign itself to relocate all   some of that underground infrastructure  too so for what it's worth there thanks   I think there's more questions  for your uh council member Johnston actually I just have a comment is that  time for that or not okay um I I struggled with   this um happen to know all the parties involved  and so I reached out to Chad Glenn uh who at that   time was on the uh historic preservation board  voted for it the first time and voted against   it the second time and I said you know give me  your give me your thoughts I won't read the whole   paragraph but one one sentence really struck  me uh and I'll read that Chad says the front   facade of the structure is the most historically  significant element of the building and an icon   for the community they proposed to sign in  a location that was never intended to have   signage setting a dangerous precedent for the rest  of the of those elements to be covered in signage   that that really really struck me and uh and so  you know usually I I Am pro signs Pro business   but in this case I will not be thank you council  member Tuttle thank you um I just wanted to go on   record that I have had exp parte communication  with the applicant regarding this case um I   want to thank accidental management and Simmons  Bank for your tenacity throughout this process   um also want to thank staff I know Scott you  and I have talked about this many times over   the last couple weeks maybe months um and thank  you to the historic preservation board I know   that they worked really hard to come up with  Solutions um I'm I'm quite impressed with the   process that they were willing to engage in um  and thank you to Jeff with the greater Rich out   partnership for kind of renting a place here  today with us we appreciate your comments and   spending so much of your time um I believe the  best way to save historic buildings is to use   them and if we don't use historic buildings they  will remain shuttered and vacant and then they   will not be able to be occupied and so I think  that this is a good compromise I think that um   Everybody worked to try and get to yes which  is the Witchita Spirit one of the four pillars   of our mission within the city of Witchita to  be an exceptionally Ro run city is to grow our   economy and by bringing in new business and  industry that will certainly do it so for me   this is a blending of the new and the old  and I will be incredibly supportive thank you any further public comment I see none I'll  bring it back to the bench as we will close   public comment and now it will stay at the bench  is that correct correct council member Johnson   thank you mayor I just want to be transparent  and let the public know I ran into one member   of the applicant team at an event and they gave  me a brief synopsis of this coming toward us and   another member of the applicant team gave me a  phone call about this as well um not as detailed   as this but just a heads up that there was some  disagreement at the historic preservation board   about a sign um locations colors and all of  that and uh it would come to council council   member Glock I too want to Echo councilwoman uh  go s comments um one of the best ways to use our   historic buildings are to preserve them is to use  them in addition to that I think Scott's comments   I was conflicted until probably entering this  meeting um and I think Scott's comments about   the seems that all feasible alternatives to  the request were at least considered in this   process um also uh had expart communication  with the applicant as well um but I will be   supportive um based on staff's presentation  and also some my colleagues thoughts vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor um I also spoke with  one of the applicants and played phone tag with   another um I'm very very torn on this um nobody  loves old historic buildings more than I do um   but like my colleague said I also appreciate um  someone that appreciates the old building and   it's utilizing it um so I'm undecided so far but I  know feel free to ask some more questions so I can   no I'm just kidding um I am really torn on it um I  appreciate showing some of the other um spaces in   Witchita that have done the same thing immediately  I was thinking of the national but it must not be   on the historical register because we didn't see  it but um yeah so I appreciate showing some other   um spaces in Witchita that did the same thing um  and that's all my thoughts I will add comments as   well um I also was approached by the applicant  and I said my apologies but I was advised that   the appeals process is going on unfortunately due  to the nature of an appeals process I cannot get   briefings from staff nor the appellant please know  that the council will be hearing the facts of the   case from both sides hearing public comment and  making a judicious decision at the meeting so I   again want to uh Echo that that I appreciate  both staff working on this Scott and his team   I also appreciate the applicant and uh the team  my biggest question was to um Law Department and   I wanted to make sure that again we have exhausted  all opportunities to um have any type of s signage   other than the one that is being uh proposed at  the moment and per the response from Scott um all   feasible Alternatives have already been exhausted  and this is the final uh one that we can really uh   move forward with so I really appreciate um both  sides giving their responses so I will motion uh to I will motion that there are no prudent  or feasible alternatives to the request   override the decision of the witcha historic  preserv ation board and authorize that I the   mayor will sign a letter to the Kansas State  historic preservation officer and approve the   signed permit in accordance with the applicant  submitted sign specifications second motion   and a second any further discussion I  see none Madame clerk please open the role motion passes 5-2 Madame clerk uh can we take a quick five minute break before we hear one more uh yes we're gonna   take another five minute break yes  okay we're gonna take another five I apologize e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e we will return from break I apologize for the  lengthy and continuing uh city council meeting   appreciate all those who continue to be with  us to this very moment um we can all return Madame clerk can you please call the  ninth item on the agenda controlled   substance and alcohol testing program  request for proposal vendor protest there on this hearing it's actually the  protest um protester who does present first to give a perspective on this uh on this proposed  award I'm going to read a short statement I hope   that we could enter into a briefing package  that you were all provided and that would   save a lot of time um I would I would ask for  an opinion on that otherwise uh I will be here   much longer than you want me to to read this  into the record um I will have legal address   that first thank you uh the briefing packet was  due before noon on Thursday is it your position   that you turned it in by noon on Thursday I  believe it is I don't believe staff I don't   believe um Council received it before that time  I would advise that the presenter should proceed   as if the packet is not in review I would  encourage him to present this case at this   time to you you know what time we submitted  I believe that we were aware of that deadline   and I believe we presented to staff at the  council meeting office at that appropriate time so if you will will not stipulate to that  then please allow me a few moments to get that packet what do you have okay I'm prepared sorry for any delay I  was hoping that we wouldn't take the time   of the of the council to council member  Johnson before you begin thanks mayor uh   there was a packet that was delivered  to the council office I don't know if   that was the proper location to deliver  it it was to to be delivered to the city   clerk and I'm told it was delivered at or  afternoon on uh the 8th maybe the clerk can clarify mayor thank you um yes I got a  phone call on the 8th and an email from um   Mr Burke at 26 on Thursday August 8th asking  where to drop off the documents for the city   council meeting and I asked them I said if you  could take them to the um mayor council office   they'll let me know that they are there and  I can come down and get them um I believe um the Jenny or Norma may be distributed um anyways  because it had everybody's name on each packet   can you read the time of that email again um  the email was from Kelly compliance Thursday   August 8th at 2:06 p.m asking where do we drop  off documents for city council meeting for the   13th for review and legal can you tell us  one more time when were those documents   to do at her before noon on Thursday with all due  respect we sought Council from various different   members of the city and were never informed of  that deadline and uh we spoke not only with uh   the compliance officer the audit officer the  uh a legal department on in three different   calls to the legal department we certainly  thought we were doing the right thing we   have the written documentation regarding proper  notice to the app or the protester regarding the   noon deadline any communication I don't know  of any that the applicant is responsible for   understanding the the finance purchasing policy  and and law did not advise the applicant on a deadline does that mean that the protester did  not know that noon was the deadline I can't   speak to what he knew or didn't know uh we were  actually told verbally that we needed to have   it before Friday so that was our instructions  we were never indicated uh and please bear in   mind I've done business with this city for 35  years I've never had an opportunity or a need   to stand in front of the city council and protest  uh an award we've received contracts we've lost   contracts with the city that's really not why  I'm here okay I'm here to point out the wisdom   of what some of the choices are this was a very  complex excuse me contract my interrupt just   to stay consistent with policy I would recommend  if Council wants to start the 20 minute clock at   this time that's when time again so we're fair and  consistent with the policy there's a presentation   so that we are aware everything before this very  moment does not count as your 20 minutes I know   that you were still trying to prepare um and  again we were advised not to uh consider the   packet um because we were told by I was told by  legal that it came after the deadline so I have   not looked at your documents per legals advice so  therefore you do have the full 20 minutes um to   go over that packet I will do my best to read this  in I I have read through it it takes a little more   than 20 minutes I was hoping that we wouldn't  need to do this on the record but I will start   my name is Alan Burke I'm CEO and chairman  of Kelly compliance the oldest and most   experienced drug and alcohol collection testing  administrative provider throughout the state of   Kansas I am a member of ndasa the leading National  drug and alcohol certifying organization and the   ifda the International Association of drug and  alcohol professionals I maintain a personal   relationship directly with do leison officers  in Washington DC and at mult mle do divisions   in Washington D.C along with the nationally  recognized toxicologists and laboratory medical   directors saps mro and eaps I consult in all  these areas I'm recognized as a best practices   administrator I hold a ba degree a BS degree an  MBA aggree and the memberships in the above listed associations I'm here today uh a little h a little  history on Kelly compliance Kelly compliance been   in operation since 1993 two years before the  federally mandated do testing program became   began in 1995 our company has provided federally  regulated non-federally regulated drug and alcohol   services to a broad range of companies across  Kansas and the Midwest during the time as your   city contract administrator we've had the pleasure  of working with many departments many staff   including Human Resources bark and Recreations  road maintenance Crews Transit Authority fire and   police which includes over 600 supervisors our  knowledge of the workings of the city includes   a detailed understanding of how all of these  departments respond differently and with different   hours of operations in regard to workplace safety  and more specifically keeping our city secure from   intrusions of drug and alcohol in the workforce  we take this work very seriously I'm here today to   call the council's attention to some very striking  irregularities in the preparation and submission   of RFP 44545 Kelly compliance has been bu with  the city for over 10 years has an established   multiple contracts or multiple contacts multiple  channels through which we communicate with City   personnel near the end of our contract period in  early 2024 the city requested and we agreed to a   three-month extension of a current contract  yet for some reason when the RFP was posted   and emailed approximately early February we did  not receive notice of this RFP uh through any of   our email channels known to the city including our  official point of contact email address which been   in effect for over 10 years even though we knew  the extension was drawing to close and we had all   of our eyes on all forms of notification from the  city we were aware of including and we were aware   of including the newly registered registration  in the city Vendor Portal we received nothing   in regard to RFP 24 045 the original due date  for RFP was RFP uh 2445 was March 8 2024 on the   morning of March 5th 2024 DSi medical and a second  company both called us for pricing for undescribed   work within the city of witto Kelly did Supply  some general pricing framework to DSi medical   and when the second bidder's call came within 20  minutes we realized that something was happening   and that we did not provide any pricing to the  second caller the actual city of witto contract   RFP 24045 was not mentioned by either company in  those telephone conversations due to the nature   of these calls and the ending of our three-month  extension with the city contract we suspected that   in fact uh there may have been people interested  in bidding on what was later known to be RFP 24z   0045 we immediately began a search of all of our  channels of communication with the city on our   email service we found nothing we reached out uh  to our contact in the HR department regarding uh   whether or not we missed an imitation for bid  by late afternoon that same day we did get an   email response back on our of reccord email that  in fact RFP 2445 was released and was emailed on   February 9th 2024 and had a submission date two  days from the date of our notice our verbal notice   we requested a resend of this RFP and related  addendums and these documents were sent to our   email address of record on that same day it was  at this point that we realized that not only did   we miss the original release of the data the  data information but we also had missed the   open question and answer and the addendums  which included answers to open questions uh   s which numbered two addendums resulted in three  key emails not finding their way over all the many   channels we have to communicate with the city to  us as a vendor who had served the city for over   10 years by not receiving these inails Kelly may  have committed a false impression that we were not   interested in bidding The Proposal this knowing  not knowing the biders it was not within our   powers to correct any possible misunderstandings  at that time the addendums that were issued were   answers to questions submitted by potential biders  several of the responses resulted in communicating   incorrect information to the bidder pool had we re  received these addendums we would have immediately   contacted the procurement officer and with the  corrected information this information related   to the number of tests and the location of those  tests that may have resulted in bids submitting   their proposals based upon numbers that I believe  might have been off by as much as 200% or more   uh we were later able to prove that um I believe  that this information may have a substantial   impact on the pricing and the balancing of the  tests on site and in the office on March 22nd   2024 we submitted RFP 2445 to the city for its  review and evaluation on June 7th 2024 we were   notified of the intent of the city to award the  con uh the contract for RFP 2445 to DS i medical   located in horam Pennsylvania oddly this email  was sent directly to our general manager's email   which is not one of our recorded email addresses  with the city we had immediate concerns that as an   outof State proposer DSi medical may have in  fact intended to use Kelly compliance Inc as   their local collection site we notified the city  that this is that it is possible that the selected   company DSi Med medical may have incorrectly  listed Kelly compliance as a subcontractor for   RFP 2445 in several of its mandatory requirements  to submit responsive bids to the city of witto   we ask if the city of witto would verify that in  fact if we were listed in the proposal and to make   clear that we had no contract with DSI medical we  would not be providing DSi medical with a physical   address to meet the mandatory requirements of the  RFB and that Kelly compliance Inc has the primary   bid submitter if in fact they had listed us we  felt that this was inappropriate we asked for a   debriefing session to clarify this information  and we were granted a de a debriefing date one   day outside of the final day for us to file an  official protest I stand here before you today   not as of choice but instead as a communicator  of an unusual set of circumstances that may in   fact have created a non-resp bitter to appear as  a valid and recognized submitter we reached out   to the HR and purchasing department in an attempt  to communicate this information and we requested   a meeting in the meeting we did the meeting  did not get scheduled and with the timing of   the chain of events and with no response to our  basic question of being listed by the potential   awarded DSi medical without our permission without  our agreement and without a contract in hand and   left us no other opportunity at that time to  communicate this unusual set of circumstances   other than to file a protest which we did on june1  2024 please reference Exhibit C that was in all   of your packets this similar issue became a focus  for our company this singular issue then became a   focus for our company did DSi medical list Kelly  compliance as a local subcontractor without Kelly   compliance consent to meet a mandatory requir  of the RFP and why could we not get a simple   answer to a basic question this was the basis of  our protest and is clearly evidenced by another   exhibit in your packets exhibit a on June 25th  24 we were issued a reply to our protest exhibit   B that our protest in fact had been denied  but our outstanding question still had not   been addressed which resulted in my call to the  compliance officer for guidance in that call I   inquired as to whether the proper protocols and  procedures I inquired as to the proper protocols   and procedures so as to not by accident violate  any of the city of witch's protocols and at that   time ask again whether or not we had been listed  the response was from the compliance officer was   that he could not provide that information  and suggested strongly that I contact DSi   directly to confirm if in fact they had listed  us on June 1st 2024 I directed Aaron Cook our   president to call Roger Hornby vice president  of business development of DSi to inquire as   to whether or not he had listed us or intended  to use us as a subcontractor on the city's RFP 2425 Mr hornby's answer to this direct direct  question was yes DSi did intend to use Kelly   compliance for any mobile and after hours  Collections and and if we would agree to lower   our in office pricing he may use Kelly for part  of the contract as well I contacted Pam Pennington   with the city of witon requested a debriefing with  the intent of communicating our findings of dsi's   intent and that this was an unauthorized use and  a significant breach of a mandatory requirement   of the RFP and that we had not granted permission  to be included in RFP 2425 I was informed that a   debriefing session would be scheduled and that  I would be contacted at this point we had three   days to communicate this information to the city  or filed the next step in our protest which is to   request an audit I received a phone call a return  phone call from Pam Pennington advising me that   a debriefing session was not possible due to the  fact that we had filed a protest my next a action   was to contact the compliance officer Chris  hasset again for guidance and direction ction   and to attempt to communicate our findings I was  informed that our findings were of no consequence   and was instructed that we had three days if  we found Merit to request the next stage of the   protest was which was an audit we had three days  to consider this option we paused at this moment   to contemplate whether we were doing more harm  than good in attempting to decl to disclose what   we felt was an unauthorized use of our name and  a by DSi to to fulfill a a mandatory requirement   of the RFP we conducted a series of meetings to  determine whether this was substantial information   that DSi had used Kelly uh compliance Inc in  their RFP submission without our authorization   and whether or not we had an obligation to provide  to the city with what we now knew was the intent   of DSi we also knew DSi did not have a physical  office in witto which is a mandatory requirement   of the RFP we look back to our experience of more  than 10 years ago when a very similar situation   existed that led the situ the city of Witchita  to unknowingly commit multiple do omissions   and violations in recordkeeping that resulted in  substantial dot Financial penalties and Regulatory   Compliance issues caused by the dependence  on another East Coast remote administrator   we decided in all good faith that we would  do everything in our power to at least remind   the city of this history of events that led to  these problems and the possibility for this same   situation to be repeated it was at this time that  the city first reached out to Kelly compliance   ining as an experienced local expert to evaluate  and determine what would be required to restore   the city's drug and alcohol testing program and to  bring it back into Federal do compliance this was   approximately 2013 now all the city staffers that  were available at that time are no longer with the   city of witto barring two individuals and one is  in the legal department I con I contacted her I   consulted her and she did not recall the event it  was over 10 years ago that event led the city of   witto to penalties in excess of six figures and  it was a direct cause of lack of communication to   a remote digital operator okay with the city's  assistance and Kelly's expert staff it's still   required over 16 months to uncover all of the  underlying deficiencies and the long work and   the hours that it took our staff to bring the  city back into compliance at that time none of   the initial hours and the meeting time research  and process and procedure development was billable   from our part from that time to the present  the city of witchta under the guidance of Kelly   compliance has not had any infraction actions  that resulted in federal DOT fines that we're   aware of this decision to review the vents of more  than 10 years ago and an attempt to explain the   pitfalls of a decade ago brought Kelly compliance  Inc to the conclusion that we must expose what we   thought could be a manipulative scheme on the  part of DSi to submit an apparently valid RFP   by using a locally well-known company without  their consent and with the now known intent to   ensure their profits by by negotiating prices and  services with the leverage of an after a contract   after the contract had been secured to qualify  their proposal through a less than transparent   and misrepresentative disclosure to the city  and Kelly compliance in it is in my opinion   that this is not a trusted partner in the federal  compliance program where the Federal Regulations   the employer I.E the city of witto will bear  the full responsibility of the data and the Reg   atory compliance produced from this contract per  procedure we filed a request for an audit in that   request I spoke directly with the auditor I asked  if there was a possibility within the protocols   to have a direct meeting to lay out all of our  concerns she indicated that this was within her   power to Grant a meeting and that she would take  it under advisement with no further communication   we were issued a denial letter before the deadline  which reflected the denial letter issued by the   compliance officer we received that 3 days before  her official deadline with no meeting and another   three days to decide whether or not to escalate  our findings and concerns to the final end with   a public Hearing in front of the mayor than the  city council the choice was not an easy decision   having done business with the city for over  35 years and successfully providing Services   through multiple contracts I have never found  myself in a position to Warrant or file a protest   on the award of a successful bidder I would not  be standing in front of you today if anyone in   the process of the protest would have answered my  one and only question did DSi medical list Kelly   compliance Inc as required under the RFP section F  mandatory elements item two a profile of the firm   included in the official including the official  contact person telephone number mailing address   if the firm is a joint venture Consortium the  qualification of each firm compromising the joint   venture or Consortium shall shall be separately  identified we expected that if they intended to   use us they would have been required to list  Us by name with the following information with   respect to the city of witto we've provided these  Services since October of 2014 we were approached   by the city in the middle of 24 uh 19 to assist  in reestablishing compliance after an audit by the   Federal Department of Transportation discovered  many discrepancies in meeting the federal DOT   requirements this is our job this is our expertise  this resulted in a substantial fine to the city at   that time I personally was called to a meeting  with senior staff and a representative from the   legal department to discuss and assist in  resolving the regulatory issues that were   raised by this audit at that time the current  administrator of the program was a company from   the East Coast that had been administrating  the city's program remotely this company had   no employees within the city of Witt no direct  contact with the department heads supervisors and   did not fully understand the city's procedures and  where and how the city's compliance program could   and did develop substantial regulatory deficits at  this time all but two of the individuals involved   in that meeting have retired or are no longer with  the city I State this only as a point of reference   because the situation that exist existed at the  time had grave impact on the city and that Legacy   experience has been lost to today's decision  makers regarding this contract I'm relating   this account of events to you because I see the  same situational possibilities that led to this   disasterous outcome back in 213 developing  again with the potential Award of RFP 2445   to DSi Medical Services DSi Medical Services is a  company about the same size as Kelly but located   1400 miles away from Witchita DSi medical does  not have an office in Witchita they employ no   direct staff in witto and have no experience or  relationship with City staff department heads   and over 600 City supervisors this is a direct  requirement of RFP 2445 as reference in exhibit   a addendum one question and answer number one  how do I know this well since the notice of   the proposed award my office staff and I have  been contacted by DS uh DSi Medical on five   separate occasions I will not be able to finish  this in 26 seconds so what would uh what would   you like for me to do at this point I can go to  the summary in closing our consideration before   you stem from a very unfortunate anomaly  regarding the timing of RFP 2024 receip   by different parties creating an unanticipated  chain of events because of this some bids may   have seen the opportunity to submit proposals  that otherwise would have been disqualified or   nonresponsive I have never seen this happened  before nevertheless bids were submitted and   although only 10% of the awarded consideration  was to be based on cost the balance based on   ability to meet proposal terms and conditions  project understanding and and presentation   technical qualifications resources references  past performance and an e d rbe participation   all of these above award conditions have  been stress tested for over 10 years by   Kelly compliance Inc and undeniable a notice of  intent to award was issued to DSi medical Kelly   compliance is now in front of the council asking  for your reconsideration based upon DSi Medical   Services submission that contained participants  Andor subcontract contractors that included Kelly   compliance as a major contributor to both  proposal compliance and successful complete   of the service over the term of contract this in  fact is a deception Kelly compliance did not and   does not intend to enter into any agreements for  services with DSI medical we sincerely regret if   Kelly compliance Inc was responsible for any  part of the chain of events that may have led   to this Pro that may have set this process in  motion it is in no way the misuse of our company   Kelly compliance e in a bidding scheme without our  permission and a very critical comp component of   fulfilling this contract if we were to go forward  Kelly's 10 years of experience intimate knowledge   of the interworkings of the city understanding of  the department and supervisor and above all the   technical qualifications and collectors resource  of over 17 certified collectors 24 hours a day   7 days a week 365 days a year was not enough  to sway our bit a savings of a few hundred a   month is quickly offset by a single do violation  with with a potental potential penalty of 11 to   $16,000 which was the penalty assessed back in  2113 that resulted in a six-figure fine to the   city I respectfully asked the council not to award  this contract to DSi medical I'm sorry that were   substantial parts of the presentation that we did  not have time to submit and I will close by saying   we have received an exhibit that is in the record  now and I would like to have that uh it's in your   record but I'd like to have a copy distributed  to all of you because this has to do with how   the contract is evaluated and Par I'll let legal  speak mayor the policy specifically states that   no documents or other evidence must be accepted  at the we don't need to submit it in the record   it's already in your record as noted in uh um in  the notice of your agenda this has to do with an   email that was sent by DSi to the city of witto  thank you Mr Burke it is now time for staff to present well hello again Mark Manning with the  Department of Finance uh you've had a long day   I've had a long day I will not take the entire 20  minutes I'll be a little bit more brief hopefully   oops our U discussion today really boils around  two issues you heard Mr Burke bring up a lot of   stuff I'll address a little bit of it but  fundamentally his appeal comes down to two   issues this is what included in his appeal to  the contract compliance officer and to internal   audit and that is that he was not notified of  the RFP and that is that he was identified as   a subcontractor contributor he mentioned  joint venture uh that he was identified as   a participant by one of the other proposers uh I  will tell you that the second one is completely   irrelevant from the city standpoint we don't  worry about the subcontractor relationships in   proposals that's far beyond our purview to manage  or control and I will tell you that he was in fact   at least based on our records notified of the  RFP but even if he wasn't he submitted an RFP   so he suffered no harm if he wasn't notified  but I would contend that he was so a little   background I'll go through this briefly because  he covered a lot of this HR administers our City   Drug Testing program we actually have two drug  testing programs I use drug testing program uh   just generically here we actually have two we  have the pre-employment drug testing program   and we have what we call the do drug testing  program this RFP is for the do Department of   Transportation drug testing program it is much  much much more highly regulated as he indicated   uh I would tell you Mr Burke is our vendor for  the pre-employment drug testing program and he   is in fact under contract for another year so  we do continue to have a relationship with him   uh he was our contractor Kelly compliance was our  contractor for the do drug testing program from   2019 to 20 24 and actually I think he had the  contract five years prior of that his contract   expired in April uh but we asked him to extend  to June uh which he did so HR knew that their   contract was expiring so they asked purchasing to  issue an RP and they did that on uh at February   13th uh so uh we I'm sorry we issued the RFP at  the request of HR we posted it on our website   on February 9th the vsss website by the way is  the same one that you hear Josh tell you about   every week when he presents the board of bids  that's our vendor self-service that's protocol   we presented on the vsss website we also publish  it in the witw eagle we want vendors to know about   our rfps we want as many responses as possible  it is in our best interest to broadcast our rfps   as widely as possible we send emails to all our  vendors in our vsss system with the email address   that they have provided us which we did in his  case uh we have based on our records we sent   that email on February 9th which would have  been our normal protocol we also send emails   to 11 other vendors that HR had identified  for us so we sent that to what we're going   to call his email of record which I think is the  same term that he used uh we sent a deadline in   RFP March 8th as he correctly indicated uh we  were notified by him as he indicated on March   5ifth that he was not aware of our RFP uh now  that may be true uh computers are funny things   all I'm telling you is our records indicate  that we sent the email to him on February 9th so on Fe on March 11th we issued addendum  number three which extended the deadline to   the r to March 22nd why did we do that  we did that largely because he told us   that he was not aware of the RFP and again  we want to make it as easy as possible for   proposers to propose so even if he wasn't  notified I don't understand how that had   any impact or relevance at all uh we also by  the way notified him of addendum number one   one addendum number two and addendum number  three he submitted a proposal prior to the   deadline so again he was not harmed in anyway if  he didn't know about the RFP we actually received   five valid proposals including One from Kelly we  formed a staff screening selection committee like   we always do include a staff from HR Transit law  budget purchasing and the Safety Office the staff   screening selecting committee shortlisted to three  proposals one of those proposals included Kelly   they held interviews now this was during  our computer challenges that we had you may   recall this first of May so we had to have the uh  interviews remote but we did hold interviews with   three firms one of which was Kelly uh then based  on those interviews and other factors and their   responses the staff screening selection committee  made their recommendation which is their charge   and they recommended DSi Services he indicated  that we have criteria under which we uh select   uh make recommendations these are those criteria  these were included in the RF uh again I think   he mentioned them correctly you'll notice cost is  about 10% and I'm jumping ahead but I would tell   you that he was not the lowest cost proposal  regardless but cost is 10% and you can see   there's a variety of other things that uh form the  basis under which the staff screening selection   committee make their recommendation based on their  analysis and their interviews of all the proposals   they choose chose DSi so again using his email of  record we notified him on June 7th of the intent   to award the bid to DSi and I think he acknowledge  that uh in that notification we provide him with   the process under which a vendor can appeal  award again routine process uh that process   is first appeal to the city's contract compliance  officer and then to internal audit and then the   last step is what we're doing here today so again  his appeal included two assertions one that Kelly   compliance was not notified of the original RFP uh  in a timely manner on February 9th uh the second   is that the DSi proposal which staff selection  committee recommended was invalid and it was   invalid in his appeal and under his assertion  because Kelly was listed as a subcontractor for   them uh let me address that briefly he mentioned  several times how he kept asking that question am   I listed am I listed am I listed and he could not  get a response from the city well there's reason   why he could not get a response we do not provide  proposals during a competitive proposal process   until it is completed uh that gives other firms a  competitive Advantage we simply cannot do that uh   so that's why he was not told that but having  said that all he had to do was ask DSi which   ultimately he did and he found his answer but  the city could not provide him that information   because that would have violated our policies  so the contract compliance officer reviewed his   appeal and I want to quote from him he says  City records indicate that the notification   of the new RP was sent to Kelly compliance on  that date that date being February 9th to the   email of record and he also went on to say the  nature of your Kelly's arrangement with other   proposers is not a valid basis for a protest and  is not a relationship for the city to manage or enforce so Kelly appealed to the internal audit in  a timely manner on July 28th the internal audit uh   area again looked at his uh appeal and considered  it thoughtfully and issued their denial stating   the office upholds the original decision to  deny the protest in its entirety as filed with   the contract compliance officer so because of this  lengthy process uh it kind of created a challenge   for the city because our contract expired on  June 30th of 2024 our extended contract with   Kelly uh so it's very important that we have  a DT drug testing program so we entered into a   short-term contract with DSI our preferred vendor  the one the staff screening selection committee   uh recommended we entered into that contract with  them on July 10th so we have actually been using   them for about four weeks now HR who is ultimately  the contract administer administrator for this   has been very satisfied with the service from  DSi over the past four weeks in fact HR staff   provided feedback on this temporary contract  uh arrangement to our purchasing man on August   6th and they noted DSi has provided excellent  service in finding a collector to perform our   after hours and mobile testing as well as three  other collection locations around witto now that's   relevant because he may or may not have been  uh proposed to be used as a coordinator of the   collection site so basically what HR is saying is  uh his participation in any relationship with DSI   is completely irrelevant and has had zero impact  on the the service that DSi not only can but has   provided to the city during this interim period  so in conclusion uh I would tell you that his   assertion that he was not notified of the original  RFP by email is based on the factual information   that we are aware of simply not accurate uh we  did in fact notify him based on our records to   his email of record the same email record that we  used later times that he did acknowledge receiving   emails from the same email of record by the  way from which he has communicated to us uh   so you know who knows maybe the computer didn't  go through that day who knows but all I can tell   you is we sent the email to him just like we did  every other email to him and I will tell you even   if he didn't get the email completely irrelevant  because he provided a proposal we considered   his proposal we shortlisted his proposal and we  interviewed him on his proposal a second assertion   uh that the DSi proposal is invalid since they  listed him as a subcon contractor or contributor   or joint venture whatever term you want to use I  don't know which one's accurate I would call him   more of a contributor to their proposal but his  assertion is that DSi is invalid and I suppose   that we should reject their proposals because  of that because they mentioned him again that   is completely outside the purview of the city of  witto to manage or enforce we want proposers that   can provide the services we need uh we recognize  there may be subcontractor relationships that's   the business business of the entity we're going  to contract with we don't manage that we don't   stipulate that it is what it is they choose who  they choose and they either perform adequately   for the city or they don't perform adequately  for the city and DSi in fact has performed more   than adequately for the city during the brief  time in which they've had them and uh that's   what I guess I mentioned the last bullet point  any relationship Kelly may or may not have had   with DSI has simply not impacted dsi's ability  uh to perform uh for the city uh since July 10th I want to make uh two more uh refute two  more of his assertions very briefly and then I   will wrap up uh he mentioned that DSi does not  have a local office in witto that is actually   true uh they are not based in Witchita uh has  absolutely no bearing to our selection of them   we have no local uh requirement to purchase  locally we certainly like to drive business   to our local businesses and we have programs  to do that uh you know ebb program is a prime   example of a program that we have in order to  create business opportunities in our community   but the fact that DSi is not located in witll  has absolutely nothing no relevance to this uh   to this uh to this procurement process uh he  mentioned compliance issues that happened 10   years ago I wasn't involved 10 years ago uh you  know I'll take his word for it that those occurred   I would tell you that is absolutely completely  irrelevant DSi in the city of wiaw are very very   very very well aware of the compliance issues in  do testing and we are quite confident that DSi can   perform uh that compliance uh in a satisfactory  manner to the city of witto had they not been   able to the staff screening selection committee  likely would not have recommended them and with   that mayor staff would recommend two potential  courses of action for the city council uh as you   may deem appropriate uh I think one one course  for you may be to reject the Enders appeal and   direct staff to uh follow the recommendation of  the staff screening and selection committee and   complete negotiations with DSI uh perhaps another  option available to you if you are so inclined   is to direct staff to reject all the proposals  and then to reopen the RFP process now there's   a few reasons why that one could be a little bit  challenging and problematic uh but that would be a   option for the city council if you are persuaded  by Mr burk's appeal uh with that I'm completed   uh hopefully I finished in under 20 minutes  and uh Do I Stand For questions seven minutes remaining questions for staff council member hoisel thank you  mayor um good evening you're in a little   bit it'll be good night I think we're trying  to push for that WIS a dinner time Break um   did we have any other vendors reach out with  issues on the initial RFP the contact uh not   that I'm aware of no okay um so it doesn't  matter if there's no physical office in   ICT the other gentleman had referred to the  possibility of being fined or our purchasing   policy does not require a vendor to have  an office in the city wi they manage this   process there's there is no reason they  cannot perform up to the specifications   of the RFP without a physical headquarters  in witto obviously they collect here in witto   but the question is where is their headquarters  location and it is not in witto and so it doesn't   matter if they have a physical office here at wit  not just the headquarters but a physical office   it doesn't matter if they're headquartered in  witch and they are not headquartered in witch   do they have a physical office here in wiah I  don't believe they have a physical office in   which to no okay there's no federal guidelines  that'll ding us on that my understanding is   there is no requirement for that okay what happens  if we enter into a proposal with somebody and it   ends up being false pretenses and they're not  able to live up to their contract is there Escape   Clauses for that well most of our contracts have  cancellation Provisions in them and it's incumbent   upon the contract administer administrator  to monitor their performance and certainly   if a vendor doesn't perform we're going to take  action and we're going to typically first we'll   send them a remediation letter and tell them hey  you're not performing to our standards uh we're   not very happy about this improve and typically  if that doesn't happen then we will recommend   terminating the agreement okay thank you council  member Glascock thank you mayor when does the RP   reopen I miss that uh there is no reopening how  long how long does this contract extend uh usually 90 I think 90 days I for the larger so  the contract cont ract with DSI not the   extension agreement how long is the full length  contract is it a year uh TP yeah if we negotiate   with DSI it'd be a one year with four Oney  year renewals okay as are typical yeah Josh   might have further details that I probably also  have questions on can you tell us um obviously   there were three applicants that received an  interview can you also I know it's only 10%   of the decision making but how much did each uh  bid come out to be your question is how did the   other respondents rank in the mayor we typically  do not provide that information uh I do have some um appropriate to say what factors you used  and I think the ranking but I think that's all   the information that's appropriate to share  in a public setting okay uh I can tell you   this I can tell you in the ultimate ranking  uh obviously DSi was first in that ranking   uh there were three firms ranked I can tell you  that Kelly compliance was not the second ranked   firm uh I can tell you some of the criteria  that the selection committee liked uh that   were relevant to our to our selection process  uh chain of custody uh DSi offered us a method   to do that electronically which is something  we greatly valued uh we had tried to work that   out with Kelly compliance over the last few  years and we'd had some challenges doing that   that and we're very excited about doing that  I think the collection hours that DSi offered   were extended if I remember correctly I think  Kelly's were till four o'clock and I think DSi   extended hours past that which is beneficial  to us because by definition if you're after the   standard hours you are an after hour collection  which costs a lot more so it's Advantage it's   more advant and bad more advantageous  for us to have extended office hours uh   the references were good on DSi and they just  presented a better overall proposal and their   cost was marginally cheaper uh that's a summary  of why the staff screening selection committee   selected DSi can we have the actual numbers of uh  DSi the second applicant and the third applicant   just I know that that was during probably  one of our bard of bids so it's open record again this is scoring based on  our criteria that was in our RFP   and based on the uh scoring of the  members of the staff screening and   selection Committee of which I was not one  by the way uh DSi had a total score of uh 698 uh the second [Music] vendor  I'm struggling to pronounce I'm   not familiar with them energ energex had  a score of 679 C compliance had a score of 638 so it really wasn't a difficult decision for  the St staff screening selection committee and   how much were the bids again uh cost dollarwise  dollars uh they're in the neighborhood of about   $46,000 if my memory is correct and again  that's an estimate because it's based on   the number of tests and the unit price per test  uh but it's in the ballpark of about $46,000 a year any further questions for staff I see none we will now open it up for  public comment and anyone in the public can speak   and including the applicant or protester um it is  public comment time you will have 5 minutes thank   you the reality is that in addendum one that's  in your packet and readily available to you the   question was asked for the application to service  this contract it is a require is it required for   the organization to have a physical location  inside the city of of the the witw city limits   the answer is yes yes addendum one the addendum  that's already in your file that we asked to   have submitted is a a copy of an email sent  from Roger Hornsby to the city and in this   this is a very complicated issue because  we have offered the city of witchta digital   applications for many many years we have  a digital application in our online portal   the city has chosen not to use that over  a 10-year period of time now when we talk   about electronic chains electronic  chains are very complicated scenarios   they present their own set of problems in  this notice that's already in on on record okay DSi recognizes that there are only  five options in wiah to use a digital   chain okay two of those have closed two of those  are no longer in business one is a chiropractic   office way down in South witto that has very  limited hours the other is a medical office so   in reality once the contract starts in play the  city will find that they're paying a 50% premium   to use DSi because the digital services are not  available and cannot be conducted in witch Kansas the quest site that is the key to this contract  closed August 1st August 1st is that correct   closed August 1st they're no longer here so all of  the testing that will be done under this contract   will be done at a tier one price and that's $20  per test more than what is in the contract there   are no vendors in witto short of ourselves that  can handle that digital pricing so by default and   the city's had four weeks of experience to you can  go back and check your own records you've got four   weeks of experience to see where this contract  is being priced at it is not the contract price   that was awarded under the under the proposal it's  going to be a premium tier 2 price because there   are no options in pricing option number one now  if you're familiar with electronic chains which   we are very familiar with all of our major clients  which include the Aerospace industry the state of   Kansas various government bodies around the state  we do we conduct business in five states we've not   had a one single client that has gone on digital  chains that six months later they're still on them   they create their own problems they create a false  sense of security the old adage of garbage in   garbage out these are all digital chains these  require each and every staff member with the   city of witchta to go online and file and request  a digital test we're projecting that the city is   going to have to hire two more uh employees and  train 600 supervisors for after hours ordering in   order for you to F fulfill this contract within  the pricing structures that was that was awarded   to DSi you're going to find that that's a phantom  price there are no people here that will do n work   at that price I don't think that's a deception  I think it's something that the city just didn't   didn't understand they don't have experience  with digital chains we don't have any clients any   clients in our hundreds and hundreds and hundreds  of clients that have stayed with digital chains I I RIS my presentation we estimate that the  city will be paying a premium of over 50%   more than our bid price to use DSi medical council  member Johnson thanks mayor uh this might be Mark   or Josh um the applicant mentioned addendum number  one this wording is interesting to me given what   they said so number one said for an organization  to service this contract is it required for the   organization to have a physical location within  the city limits but the answer doesn't reference   physical location the answer says yes a physician  is needed to be within the wital city limits so   is that what um qualified DSi because they have a  physician and not necessarily a physical location   yeah that's a great uh Point uh let me let me  address that uh you're exactly right it does not   state that you have to have a physical location in  which uh unfortunately when we create addendums we   uh visit Neon ourselves and among staff and we  try to provide the best information possible in   the addendum uh as I mentioned we have two drug  testing programs the uh pre-employment program   and the do program uh the doctor really isn't as  relevant for a DOT program unfortunately we got   confused and for the pre-employment physic or drug  test program a local doctor is required so that   got pasted into the addendum inadvertently it's  really uh not really that relevant and certainly   not a physical location is required to be in  which St okay thank you council member Glascock   a quick question could you pull up the timeline in  terms of March 5th I think it's March 22nd March 25th that it okay yes I think that's that's  correct so my understanding March 5th the   applicant was aware that the RFP went out yes  March 22nd was the deadline they were let known   on March 5th the deadline was the 22nd and then  March 20 what what was the deadline they submit   or when did they submit there I believe it was  on the 22nd on the 22nd did they submit it by   the 22nd yeah they submitted it in a timely  manner their their submission was valid okay   their okay their submission was valid yeah  yeah the only thing council member that I   would maybe clarify just to be on the safe side  is uh we actually did not issue addendum number   three until March 12th so they probably were  not aware until March 12th that the deadline   had been extended I can't tell you whether we had  communication with them prior to that possibly we   did I'm not aware of that but the bottom line  is they submitted a valid proposal okay thank you I will actually ask further questions  regarding that because according to my notes   from the protester he was notified on March 5th  because DSi was asking for pricing questions but   the actual due date was March 8th the first time  was March 8th is that correct that is correct   which is not on this slide he could have met the  deadline even being notified on March 5th we you   know in the interest of an abundant a caution  we wanted to give all respondents plenty of   time to develop their proposals so we extended  the deadline so the deadline initially was March   8th then it was extended to March 22nd yes ma'am  council member Tuttle thank you um mark thank you   for being in there with us and answering all  your questions and your presentation and I I'm   pretty sure I know the answer to this but I'm just  going to ask to make sure Kelly compliance had the   contract immediately prior to this is that correct  that's correct I think for the previous 10 years   they were our contractor so they knew the contract  was ending so they knew an RFP was going to be   coming out did they ever inquire to staff and this  that might be a question you can't answer but I've   been a grant maker and a grant Seeker my entire  career before in Council and anytime I had a grant   which is an RFP that was going to end I always  made sure that I reached out to the funer to say   when's the next round going to be available for  me to reapply was there ever that communication   that you're aware of I can't speak to that but I  can tell you as you indicated there should have   been plenty of warning signs that we were probably  going to issue an RP because they were our vendor   their contract expired in April we extended it by  Mutual consent to July 30th which should have been   a clue I would have thought and then it expired on  July 30th again you you would have I don't want to   speculate but you would have thought it would have  been pretty obvious that we were going to continue   having do testing and probably have an RFP at  some point which of course we did and incredi   redundant but going to say one more time they  submitted the RFP on time they did thank you   council member John St thank you mayor Mark you've  had probably what five weeks is of of DSi yes sir   are are you finding the pricing is per contract or  is it is it higher that's a great question I did   not review that council member Johnston I probably  should have I can tell you their performance has   been fantastic I cannot tell you what the pricing  has been but I would tell you that you're getting   into and his arguments are getting into is the  city going to negotiate a favorable contract which   has absolutely nothing to do I would argue with  his appeal his appeal is was he notified and is it   relevant that DSi is a subcontractor partner joint  venture whatever with Kelly compliance those are   his two issues maybe he's right maybe he's wrong  maybe we're negotiating a terrible contract I   don't know I don't think so but again I would tell  you that is completely irrelevant for your issue   at hand today in my opinion so if that's the case  if you did have a terrible contract you could get   out of it in a uh in fact we would get out of it  yes sir that is true we always have off-ramps okay   thank you would we be able to get that cost pardon  me would we be able to get that cost I understand   that performance so far over the last four weeks  is exemplary but um have the cost change from The   Proposal initially submitted and awarded During  the 90day period it's certainly possible the cost   the proposal recognize the proposal is a process  under which we identify a firm that we want to   negotiate a contract with that's the purpose  of a proposal process the pricing may or may   not be the same when we negotiate sometimes  it's lower because we negotiate with them and   we negotiate more favorable pricing uh so you  know that's that's what I would tell you on that any further questions for  staff we'll continue public   comment anyone in the public who would like to  speak on this matter uh it has to be somebody else your partner can come  up and speak if she would like any further public comment if  there's no further public comment   we will bring it back to the bench  we will bring it back to the bench   I'm actually going to ask for an executive  session regarding this item I move that the   city council recess into executive session  for 15 minutes to review and discuss the   vendor protest in RFP 24 0045 pursuant  to KSA 75- 4319 B2 for legal consultation   with the city attorney which would be deemed  privileged in the attorney client relationship   for legal advice the executive session is required  to protect attorney client privilege and the   public interest the executive session will begin  do uh at 610 p.m. with 15 minutes so 6:25 coming   back here second motion and a second any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the roll motion passes 70 we will go into executive  session in 5 minutes and return at 6:25 p.m. e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e we return from our executive session at 6:25  p.m. no binding action was taken during that   executive session again a reminder of our two  choices right now um our two choices right now   are to a reject the Kelly compliance appeal  and direct staff to complete negotiations   with DSI as recommended by the sssc or number  two direct staff to reject all proposals review   the specifications and begin a new RFP process  is there a motion for either of those two items council member Johnson thanks mayor uh  appreciate it hearing all the information   today and looking at both sides of this issue um  for me I have landed on where I think we should   go I'll offer a motion uh I would move that the  city council reject the Kelly compliance appeal   and direct staff to complete negotiations with  DSI as recommended by the staff selection and   straining committee second motion and a second  any further disc discussion I will just chime   in a couple of times um I I want Community to  remember that we do have an RFP process and I   hope that every single city council meeting  uh from now on uh the very last slide that   remains visible during the time period of bids and  board of bids and contract will be the ones that   are open so that people know and have a little  bit more time to digest that that information   again is online but if that can be left up on  the screen with even the email address of how   to contact UM purchasing with further questions  I think that that would be helpful um I'm trying   to again remind Community to be engaged tell  your neighbors tell your friends um the city   is open for business to work with businesses uh  throughout whether in our community or outside   of our community and our purpose is to again be  um good stewards of the dollars that are taxpayer   dollars um and maximize how we use those dollars  uh in providing services to our community uh so   again I want to say thank you to our purchasing  uh team but I also want to say thank you to our   uh providers who have been uh providing services  for our community and continue to do so um I think   if I remember correctly you uh Kelly compliance  still has a contract right now for preemployment   screening and that continues on um so again  another reminder that uh Community you can   always uh apply to become a vendor with the  city of wiah and the RFP process again is open   to the public uh and for qualified applicants  and vendors at this time we have a motion and   a second is there any further discussion I see  none Madame clerk can you please open the role motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call the  next item Co n22 24-35 amendment to co n 2012-   44 to permit outdoor entertainment  generally located on the northeast   corner of East Douglas Avenue and North  Oliver Avenue 4800 East Douglas Avenue hello and good evening Scott wle from the planning department in this case the applicant is  requesting an amendment to an existing   conditional use in order to as you heard  number one permit outdoor speakers and   television and two increase the square footage of  the restaurant this item is being heard tonight   because one protests have been received against  the application and two because the dab and map   DC recommendations for approval are different in  terms of the request the applicant has indicated   they are requesting the conditional use so that  they can have outdoor speakers and TVs and to   allow for the use of a former retail space  for expansion of the existing restaurant the   existing conditional use uh restricts the outdoor  uses and the size of the restaurant space and   so that's why they're coming forward with with  the request for the amendments in terms of the   property as you can see here the property is  located at the northeast corner of the inter   section of Douglas and Oliver so 4,800 East  Douglas Avenue it consists of three Parcels   it is uh 01777 acres in size and the properties  have three different uh zoning uh districts so   there's GC General commercial that's represented  there b multif family and INR neighborhood retail   the subject site is currently developed with a  commercial building and the related parking in   terms of context properties to the north are  zoned go general office district and B the go   property developed with an office the B property  is developed with single family residents property   to the east is owned LC limited commercial and is  developed with a bank property to the South Cross   Douglas is zoned LC and developed with stores  and a restaurant property to the west across   Oliver zoned LC and developed with a strip mall  the staff for report provides information about   noise limitations and the existing conditional  use in terms of review on June 27th the Planning   Commission held a public hearing for the item they  ultimately voted to defer the case until the July   11th meeting that vote was 121 three members of  the public spoke in opposition to the requests   citing concerns of noise public intoxication  and crowded parking on the side streets staff   also received three public comments prior to the  meeting in form of emails citing similar concerns   then on July 11th the Planning Commission held  a public hearing for it and recommended approval   of the conditional use Amendment per the staff  recommendation and that vote was 741 one member of   the public spoke in opposition to the application  at the mapc hearing in general the concerns   expressed regarded uh noise levels and parking  on the side streets I would note that as part of   the uh staff recommendation and the recommendation  coming to you from the mapc uh that recommendation   for approval included a requirement that TVs  and speakers cease by 10 pm in the evening on   July 1st the district Advisory Board reviewed  the request and recommended approval of the   conditional use amendments that vote was five to  two with one exstension with with the expansion   of the restaurant space and allowing outdoor  speakers however theirs was different than the   Planning Commission because their recommendation  for approval would not allow outdoor television   so they recommended approval the speakers but  not televisions in this way it differs from   the Planning Commission recommendation public  comment consisted of concerns regarding noise   levels and parking on the side streets 20 protest  petitions were received for the request against   the application with nine of those properties in  the protest area is equal 29% of the protest area   and exceeds the 20% threshold established by  the state therefore any vote to approve uh the   amendment to the conditional use will require a  super majority or six of seven votes in terms of   council action it's recommended city council adopt  the findings of the Planning Commission approve   the requested Amendment authorize necessary  signatures and instruct the city clerk to publish   a resolution after approval again requires six  of seven votes Alternatives include the following   you can override the Planning Commission adopt  alternative findings and deny the conditional   use that requires five of seven votes or you can  return the case to the Planning Commission for   additional consideration which would require a  simple majority of four of seven votes and and   just a note about process that city council  policy is at the public hearing for planning   agenda items occurs at the Planning Commission  meeting according to the policy city council does   not typically receive public comments on zoning  items so with that I'll take you through some   of the images and Graphics so here's an aerial  image showing the subject site which consists   of the three parcels and uh is the commercial  restaurant building and the parking lots here's   the map from well we'll go back to the zoning real  quick here's the zoning map which was described   earlier here's the map from the comprehensive  plan showing a combination of what appears to   be residential and Commercial here's a site plan  that was submitted uh as part of the application   here's the protest map it zoomed out quite a ways  because we received a protest uh far up looks like   maybe Riverside North Riverside area um and then  this is zoomed in a little bit closer you can see   that there are some located to the South and to  the west of College Hill Park and then zoomed   in more closely to the protest area again the  protest uh exceeded the 20% threshold coming in at 29% and with that I'll stand for any questions  thank you Scott and a reminder because this is   a zoning case there is no public comment regarding  this item correct council member Glascock could we   thank you mayor could we go back to the site plan  real fast sure okay I just needed to look at that   um so just for my understanding because there's  a lot going on on this page are they increasing   capacity to the restaurant they would be um so  what is happening is in this this blue kind of   purplish area that is the former T-Mobile store so  it was a retail space and so they are requesting   an amendment to the conditional use because the  original conditional use limited um the amount   of space that the retail that the restaurant could  use and so they're requesting that change to allow   them to occupy that space and that limitation  was uh based in square feet so okay so the   T-Mobile space will be the additional component  of it and then so they're not taking away any   parking from what's currently there no that's  correct okay and then the TV and speakers where   on this diagram would those be located yeah  they're um um there actually is an existing   patio and this was an area subject of discussion  during the mapc uh meeting and uh they there had   been issues with them actually having speakers  out there prior uh they were provided notice and   then they removed the speakers and so if you go  there today you can still see the brackets that   are hanging on the walls okay thank you vice  mayor balet thank you mayor um so what would be   different with these speakers than were there  before um in this case they're they're going   through the process of requesting permission  to go ahead and and put those up so I think   that would be the difference so they had them  up without permission exactly yep okay that's   concerning and um number two is are most of the  protests um residential yes okay now there are   some if we look here we can see that there are  the properties immediately to the north and from   the description to the north we'll go back to the  aerial one of these is operated as a business the   other one is a single family house so not in all  cases were the protests submitted by Residential Properties council member hoisel thank you  mayor um were the complaints received uh noise   complaints received uh for the speakers that  were out there um yes that's been the test the   that's has been the comments that we received  the speakers were removed quite some time ago   so I don't I don't have any personal experience  of that but yes that's my understanding based   on what was said at the mapc meeting do you  know if the police were called for that I do   not know I believe I know that zoning  enforcement was involved because Jr is   uh discussed it okay um and this is all tied  together in one package so it's the park and   expansion along with the speakers and TV and  outdoor patio in this case the conditional use   it's it's it's a little bit of a complicated case  but because um this building has been there it   was a Jewelers quite some time ago and then they  wanted to open the restaurant my recollection is   that um they expanded the parking lot and so  as part of that they received a conditional   use for the parking and that conditional use  is actually the one that they are modifying   requesting to modify at this time because as part  of that conditional use it restricted the amount   of space that could be used for the restaurant  at this property and it also prohibited them   from having the outdoor speakers and TVs is there  anything in our our code or ordinance that would   have a like a cap on the size of the speakers that  would be out there so we can make sure that it's a   lower level speaker as opposed to uh something  a little a little louder um there is not how   however you do have the ability to add a condition  to that effect because this is a conditional use   what the code does have in place is the there's  the noise ordinance and then there is also a   another specific uh requirement that applies due  to the zoning code that uh no sound application   system for projecting music or human voices shall  be permitted on any property zoned in o or more   intensive which this property is if the music  and or voices can be heard within any residential   district that is located within a 500 foot radius  of the subject site and that is directly out of   the staff report which is right out of the code  um what I will tell you though is that if someone   is found to be in violation of that they would  go through the zoning enforcement process which   is they get a notification they have 30 days to  correct that um if they don't get into compliance   um then they get a formal uh notice and then  ultimately it would go to court so it's quite a   y process thank you council member tutle thank  you um just to make sure I understand and I   read through the minutes especially ex me the  meeting minutes from the district Advisory Board   and either council member Johnson or Scott  if maybe you can just I want to make sure I   understand exactly so what the dab recommended is  to approve the restaurant expansion and speakers   but you can't have TVs that's correct that's  I'm just I guess curious because I would think   speakers would be louder than TVs well I believe  part of the discussion that occurred was um that   in the past there had been TVs that were visible  from the exterior what was happening oh so the   light pollution actually um people congregating so  what would happen is that there would be a game on   people would congregate in the parking lot and  so you'd have a group of people standing there   watching the game okay thank you for clarifying  council member Johnson thanks mayor uh Scott   actually answered part of that that I was going to  acknowledge uh council member hoisel had mentioned   the restaurant expansion I think or parking um  the applicant was looking at taking over the   T-Mobile space to expand the hill basically into  that space and um have a brewery in there that's   what was presented to dab so they would have a  brewery that brews beer only for the restaurant   not for distribution um the tricky part about the  parking lot was super complicated but basically   allows them to count all of that parking for that  expansion and they would increase capacity of the   restaurant by 22 seats I think in there the dab  discussion um and why the recommendation was   different was based upon um the lead organizer  of the um petitions which I do also need to um   State I have met with him as well um but the  conversation was around the fact that the TV   would cause people to gather and hang out in  the parking lot as well as the speakers would   be too loud most of the complaints that were  presented to me that I reviewed were from uh   2012 or 2014 which is when those speakers were  installed without permission um gentlemen did   say there were a lot of issues with the owners  at that time I don't know if they're the same   owners so the dab discussion came around if  the TVs were um encouraging people to gather   then they would approve the speakers and not the  te that was where that recommendation came from   also Al of note is the petition was um against  the speakers and the TV so dab saw some form of   compromise to deal with the Gathering in the lot  to recommend the um speakers but not TV the other   part of the conversation so much said that night  um was that the speakers really would be playing   either ambient music that wouldn't be too loud or  attached to if there was like a game on on the T   again not allow but for the four tables on the U  patio area that was the dab discussion vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor now I  lost my train of thought never mind I um have a question I know that when we  have zoning cases obviously um some folks stay   to find out the result of how the council votes um  and I know that there are two individuals here uh   regarding this specific item and several other  people came earlier this morning thinking that   we would be talking about this this morning um  but they did leave and again they also expressed   some concerns um so I just want that to be noted  uh that we are listening and we are hearing the   feedback um this does reside in council member  uh Johnson's District his district Advisory   Board listens to these cases specifically each  of the council members do the same thing for   their own districts so just a little matter of  information so that people are aware why there   is no public comment vice mayor Ballard thank  you mayor I even made myself a note and still   didn't register what I was gonna say um we just  heard a case similar to this with the humidor um   I think my biggest concern is is the enforcement  piece so that is my main concern is um you know   I appreciate that you know they obviously had  some issues took them down or going through   the proper channels to do that but um what does  the enforcement piece look like somebody it's   too loud somebody calls the police like then what  happens I'm just curious yeah enforcement um is a   little bit tricky the the thing about this one  is is with the condition that's in the zoning   code about uh audible from a zoning District any  portion of a zoning District within 500 feet that   opens it up for zoning enforcement staff to do  the enforcement on it so it makes it a little   bit easier in terms of enforcement because we  can have folks go out there and check on it the   issue that we run into a zoning enforcement is  that typically their hours are 8 to5 unless we   assign like a special assignment or something um  the other one then for the noise meter it's my   understanding I believe it's environmental health  and police have those and I know for sure police   has those and then I think it just becomes a  matter of getting the ambient noise measurement   and then you've got to come back and then you've  got to get it when the noise is going on so it's   it's kind of a complicated process in terms  of getting both those you have to have someone   who's uh my understanding is trained to use the  instrument and they've got to have the instrument   with them so but it's something that we take  Serious not because it is a complicated process if   somebody was complaining like do you know what I  mean yes no that's right that's exactly right it's   just it's a matter of um making sure that we're I  I think in terms of making sure that we're aware   of the situation making sure we've got the people  equipped to go out and do it at the time thank you   y council member hoisel thank you mayor um this  is capped at 10 o'clock right the speakers are   supposed to be pop at 10 o' that's recommendation  that's coming to you um you can certainly   you can change that but that is a recommendation  from the mapc okay and what's the punishment of   your out pass that potentially losing your  business license am I well um actually the   first step would be a notification and then you'd  get receive a opportunity to correct the situation   then you get a second notification and then  ultimately it go to court uh you could stand to   lose your conditional use if you're found to be in  violation how how often is that and how many viol   does it take for you to lose your conditional use  uh you know it's it's number 10 is a condition of   the conditional use I'll just read it out real  quick it says if the zoning administrator finds   that there is a violation of any of the conditions  of the conditional use the zoning administrator   in in addition to enforcing other remedies  set forth May with the concurrence of the   planning director declare the conditional uses  null and void now have we done that uh not in   the last four years but it is something that can  happen so who who makes did you say the planning   coordinator it's uh zoning administrator so  that's J.R Cox and then with the concurrence   of the planning director is it possible to add  language in there to the first time possibly   you're out of compliance with this you lose  your conditional use you know with with this   one it says if we find that there's a violation  so there's no stipulation in terms of the number   of times it just says if there's a violation  I would just jump in and say i' advise against   being that specific with the language because  then it kind of restricts gets appropriate as Zing okay yeah it's I mean I'm okay with the given  leeway as to what's a violation and whatnot it's   just if they're out of compliance and there's  a neighborhood that's being kept up all night   because of it I want us to be able to pull that  back back if they're not being good partners essentially I see no further questions council  member Johnson this resides in your District   thank you mayor um thought about this quite a bit  and went back and watched the dab meeting a couple   times to listen to concerns from the neighborhood  discussion that was had at the dab um I too am U   very want to be intentional about how uh the hill  would operate in regard to the time parameters   that were given I will say for me looking at the  surrounding area when you have the Wine Dive who   does similar have um other restaurants in the  area I think elcino across the street um so you   have kind of some of that ambient opportunity  already at some local businesses um given what   we we heard a dab giving the dab vote to support  having the speakers out there and listening to   the history of the establishment going back a  decade or so I think it is imperative that uh   they follow the rules but I'm glad that they  are going through the process to U make this   right um I do disagree with the dab though if we  are approving if we were to approve speakers uh I   don't see having a television outside as changing  much of the public gathering because people would   be there listening to whatever's playing anyway  whether the TV was there or not and since dab   was willing to approve the speakers um I am  going to move that the city council uh simply   adopt the findings of the mapc and approve  the requested amendment to co 2012- 000044   authorize the necessary signatures and instruct  the city clerk to publish the resolution after approval second Motion in a second I just want  clarification um so this is no longer going to   be only speaker but not TV this now allows for  speaker and TVs yes with the recommended uh cut   off time of 10 p.m. and the um noise code I get  all that mixed up but uh the way it was presented   was that they can only go five Deb above the  ambient noise now so they can't be super loud   anyway so the first time they get out there to  um measure that if they are five DB above what's   already there now they'd be in violation so in  this situation was it the dad that again said   the compromise was speakers but no TVs yeah  but you're reversing that is that correct yes   thank you um motion and a second any further disc  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the role motion passes mayor the motion would require  six votes because there was a protest so the   Motions failed motion failed motion failed uh with  four yes and three NOS so we're back at the bench council member hoisel thank you mayor do we  have to pass a vote in the affirmative uh   no no you do not you can call the next item okay  thank you Madame clerk please call the next item B Johnson um thank you mayor I just want to  highlight from my colleagues um it is unfair for   the applicant to just have this die so if someone  is in favor of denying it maybe that motion should   be made if not it's just it's a technical denial  for them but they don't have any real Direction   it just kind of sits there so a denial would  probably be better for them could I offer a   different motion so I would move that we return  could we return the case to mapc for additional   consideration so the motion to return to mapc for  additional consideration second a motion and a   second there's uh several folks on the board so  starting with council member ho Heisel thank you   mayor um yeah I I think this is a good move um  give him an opportunity to adjust to what the   community is uh concerned about I I I feel and  because I don't think the community was necessar   upset on anything aside from the speaker so  maybe this will give them a chance I hate to   sync the whole zoning case just because of one  item so I I agree with my colleague motion and   a second any further discussion I see none  Madame clerk please open the rooll motion   passes 70 Madam clerk please call the next  item appointment of two Municipal Court judges good evening mayor city council Dante  Martin assistant city manager here to   present this item related to the  appointment of two municipal court judges so in 2015 the city uh Council adopted  Charter ordinance 223 which provides a process   for the selection of Municipal Court judges  um this year as Nathan Emory mentioned earlier   there are two Municipal Court judges that are  retiring judge Abbott retired in April of 2024   judge cerr is set to retire in September of  2024 pursuant to Charter ordinance 223 the   city council appointed a five member uh Municipal  George nominating commission consisting of three   attorneys uh Steven Etherton Amanda Marino  and Richard Sano uh nominated by the witch   Bar Association and two non- lawyer members  Robert nent and Mary Whiteside um before I go   any further I want to thank the commission for  their service they spent three months dedicated   to this effort identified uh finalists and  submitted names to you for further review I   also want to give a special thanks to chairperson  amenda Marino for the work she did guiding the effort Municipal Court judges are appointed  to a term of four years appointed by the witch   city council and they're responsible for carrying  out the judicial functions of the witto Municipal   Court uh Municipal Court just as a reminder  adjudicates violations of the Witch city code   which includes criminal violations as well as  traffic violations also issues sentences as set   by or Allowed by State Statute in the city code  um if a judge happens to or fails to fulfill your   their four-year term the council is then asked  to appoint judges to fill the remainder of the term Charter ordinance 233 sets the  requirements and qualifications for   Municipal Court judges um those requirements  include being admitted to a practice law on the   state of Kansas and in good standing with the  bar having at least three years of experience   as a lawyer judge of a court in the state or a  full-time teacher of the law at any accredited   law school or any combination thereof for  at least three years and also Municipal   Court judges are required to be a citizen  of the United States the municipal court   judge nominating commission recommended six  qualified candidates to the city council for   interview for the two positions those names were  forwarded to the city council in June of 2024   the city council decided or elected to interview  each of the six finalists and it's now asked to   determine of the six would they like to appoint  with the council would like to appoint two uh to   vacant judicial positions the 2024 Municipal  Court adopted budget includes funding for the positions the staff recommended action  is at the city of council point two of   the six finalist to Municipal Court Judge  positions to fulfill the remainder of the term   um with judge Abbott and judge ker retiring  um those terms are set to expire April 17 of   2025 at that point the city council would be  asked to appoint five judges to full fouryear   terms I'm available for any questions regarding  process any questions for staff council member   hoisel thank you mayor uh can you delay for like  four minutes to make sure that we get to 7 o' three minutes okay okay I I withdraw my request I  I apologize vice mayor Ballard thank you mayor uh   Dante I just have a suggestion on the selection  committee um that you chose or appointed just   that we make sure that maybe there's somebody  on there that has practice in municipal court   or that actively um practices in Municipal Court  I just think Municipal Court might be unique to   some I don't know County and and different areas  I just think it's important for somebody that's   actually worked you know in those courtrooms  and familiar with those doets and things to   maybe have somebody on the selection committee  um just a suggestion that's all so thank you   for that vice mayor um since um the selection  process has gone forward I've had an occasion   to talk to the city manager the HR Director as  well as the court administrator about steps we   can take to improve the process uh Nathan emry  Pam Pennington and I talked this even evening   about getting together with the HR Director  revisiting the process and then coming forward   talking to the mayor vice mayor and councel  about your impressions of the process what   improvements you'd like to make so right in line  with what you said vice mayor Bal that there's   an opportunity for us to revise or improve the  process to address your concerns hopefully we   can just speed up the process okay thank you y  thank you again for the patience I know that you   had to coordinate between seven schedules and in  order not to violate uh the Kansas open meeting   act uh we could only have three of the  individuals in one setting so sometimes it   was just two individuals so again thank you for  being patient with us and our in the process so   that we were fair to all the applicants thank you  mayor wol so in this situation do we have public   comment there's not public comment specified for  Council agenda items thank you well then I motion   to appoint two Municipal Court judges from the  nominees provided by the municipal court judge   nomination commission second if you would uh  mayor W vice mayor need to name the uh the   candidates that were appointing to the bench so I  forwarded two names that were recommended by the council Brady Burge and um Michelle Meyer okay thank you Motion in a second any further   their discussion I see none  Madame clerk please open the RO motion passes 70 Madame  clerk please call the next   part of the agenda council member appointments and comments we can begin Shall  We Begin with appointments   and then we will go to further  comments uh appointments coun   member Johnson thanks mayor I'd like to  appoint Brandy NRI to the library board of directors I have several um on behalf of the  metropolitan area building and construction   Department I'll appoint the following for the  board of building code standards and appeals   reappoint shayen n white to the city public  atlarge position and for the electrical Advisory   Board officially titled the board of electrical  appeal to recall the appointment of Ben Wilson in   the master electrician position and to appoint  Brian Higgins in the master electrician pH in   addition I would like to appoint the Golf Board  of Governors uh its reappointments um Robert   Alexander Marsha alterman Randy bluml Mike Jordan  Jesse Ramos Evan Skelton and also appointing mad Steven do I have a motion to approve second motion   and a second any further discussion I  see none Madame clerk please open the rooll appointments pass 70 it's  time now for council member comments council member Glascock thank you mayor um  given the conversation regarding um parking   today and I think uh specifically Faith  Martin's comments also manager leighton's   comments and Troy's presentation instead of  revisiting Charter ordinance 239 today we   have public hearings through August 26th and so  my motion I don't know if I would need this in   a motion form or not would be to um delay the  purchasing of the equipment until our meeting   on September 3rd so we can um go through all  the public workshops public hearings get public   input before we move forward with signing the  purchase agreement or the purchasing of the equipment mayor it's it's correct  you could just say that you'd like   to um have this on the on the September  3rd agenda I would like to have that on   the September 3rd agenda a motion to have  this item on the the September 3rd agenda   okay and there's a second by vice mayor  Ballard a discussion from council member hoisel uh so there's a motion in a second  regarding this item um oh council member tutle   thank you um I I guess maybe it's just because  it's 10 hours later but I'm a little confused   because there wasn't actually an agenda item on  the perking today to delay there was a discussion   because it came up in the community and we took  the opportunity to address that so on the third   what will the actual agenda item be because  the ordinance was voted on January 2nd it the   second reading was on the 9th June 11th was the  contract so what is the agenda item going to be   there's nothing to delay because there wasn't an  item today I'm just confused yeah so I I I believe   on September 3rd we'll bring back feedback that  we've received from all of our public engagement   and possibly some options for the council consider  from a policy standpoint in terms of next steps   and implementation of the parking plan that's  what I understand I think what council member   Glascock is asking is that we talk to car park and  have them not Implement not purchase any equipment   that we would then be responsible for financially  because we don't know what the next steps will be   with the parking plan okay so nothing really is  truly being delayed like an item what's being   delayed is not purchasing something correct okay  thank you for the clarification I appreciate it   council member glas um I do have one more I think  I asked staff earlier currently there are dates   for public comment but they again are 9 to5 um I  would like that to be adjusted so that there are   evening time opportunities for our community um  so does that give it enough time for September 3rd that that's a good question you think so okay  we we believe so council member hoisel thank   you mayor um I'd like to apologize to everybody  at National M out who's been uh waiting uh really   waiting for us to get there um I would  also like to instruct staff to look up   the Guinness Book of World Records and see if  a 10hour and 5 minute meeting uh put us on the   in any regard so uh it's been  a fun day with you guys up here again we have a motion and a second and  again uh a recommended action also from the   mayor because right now we have August  15th and August 26th uh 2: p.m. and 10:   a.m. uh will there be additional or  will there be modifications to those so I can tell you we have um for the schedule  August 15 2 pm August 21st at 9:00 am August   21st at 1 pm the meeting that was scheduled today  we are in the process of trying to reschedule   we're actually hoping to maybe see if we can't  turn that into one of the evening meetings um   but yes then we're looking to try and negotiate  secure ven venues over the next two weeks to try   and identify a couple of maybe it's an maybe at  the weekend something along those lines we also   have uh I've been invited to present to wampo  technical advisor committee on August 26th we   will have a presentation to the access Advisory  board on August 28th we will also have the council   Workshop the last Tuesday of the month so we have  a number of opportunities before that September 2   we can talk about whether you want to continue  with that Council Workshop or whether you just   let want to let it run its course and then the  September 3rd meeting bring it back as an item   yep I think we may be just a little premature  with the workshop so we have a motion and a   second to have this to have feedback back  on uh September 3rd in addition to some   options for policy changes if applicable council  member Johnson thanks mayor I really hate that   I pressed that button and it's been 10 hours  but um maybe we should think about September   10th because that's the day after Labor Day  weekend and maybe I know we say we can get   meetings in but maybe we can get more feedback  if it was one week later and if we need to do   a even larger evening meeting that kind of  give some flexibility after the holiday T is spine modified motion and second it already uh any  further discussion I see none Madame clerk please   open the rle motion passes 70 are there any other  council member comments I see none Madame clerk   please call the last item is it adjournment all  right I motion to adjourn our council meeting at 709 is there a motion in a second okay Motion  in a second please uh open the RO guys we're   not done motion passes 5 to S 5 to two sorry  five to two two individuals want to stay here