[0:01] **President Meyer:** MINNEAPOLIS PLANNING COMMISSION-NOVEMBER 3, 2025. [0:19] **President Meyer:** ALL RIGHT WE'RE BACK. I WILL RECALL THE MEETING FOR THE MINNEAPOLIS PLANNING COMMISSION FOR NOVEMBER 3, 2025. WE HAVE TO REDO SOME THINGS SO IT'S CAPTIONED FOR THE AUDIENCE AT HOME. SO I'LL ASK THE CLERK TO CALL THE ROLL AGAIN WHEN SHE'S READY. [0:39] **Clerk:** SORRY ABOUT THAT. COUNCILMEMBER CHOWDHURY IS ABSENT. CONLEY. **Commissioner Conley:** HERE. **Clerk:** FORNEY. **Commissioner Forney:** HERE. **Clerk:** GORDON. **Commissioner Gordon:** HERE. **Clerk:** JONES IS ABSENT. SKJEFTE IS ABSENT. SHEPPARD. **Commissioner Sheppard:** HERE. **Clerk:** WAGNER. **Commissioner Wagner:** HERE. **Clerk:** VICE PRESIDENT BAXLEY. **Vice President Baxley:** HERE. [0:54] **Clerk:** AND PRESIDENT MEYER. **President Meyer:** HERE. **Clerk:** THERE ARE SEVEN MEMBERS PRESENT. **President Meyer:** WE HAVE A QUORUM. IS THERE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE MINUTES OF OCTOBER 20, 2025? **Commissioner Wagner:** SO MOVED. **Commissioner Conley:** SECOND. **President Meyer:** ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [1:09] **Commissioners:** [CHORUS OF AYES]. **President Meyer:** OPPOSED? THAT IS ADOPTED. THEN FOR OUR AGENDA, WE HAD GONE WITH WE WILL HAVE ITEMS 4 AND 5 ON CONSENT AND ITEMS 6, 7, AND 8 ON DISCUSSION. IS THERE A MOTION TO ADOPT THAT AGENDA? [1:24] **Commissioner Wagner:** SO MOVED. **Commissioner Forney:** SECOND. **President Meyer:** ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE [CHORUS OF AYES] OPPOSED? THAT AGENDA IS ADOPTED. NOW I WILL REOPEN THE CONSENT AGENDA. IF ANYONE WANTED TO SPEAK TO ITEMS 4 OR 5, NOW IS YOUR CHANCE. WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO SPEAK TO ITEMS 4 OR 5? [1:41] **President Meyer:** ALL RIGHT, NOT SEEING ANY. SO I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. COMMISSIONERS, ARE THERE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON ITEMS 4 OR FIVE? ALL RIGHT. IS THERE A MOTION TO ADOPT OUR CONSENT AGENDA? [1:58] **Commissioner Wagner:** SO MOVED. **President Meyer:** ALL RIGHT, ANY FINAL DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [CHORUS OF AYES] OPPOSED? ABSTENTIONS? ITEMS 4 AND 5 ARE ADOPTED. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR PROJECTS. NOW WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER SIX. [2:15] **President Meyer:** 4301 LAKE STREET EAST. [2:39] **Kimberly Holien (Staff):** THANK YOU, CHAIR MEYER AND COMMISSIONERS. BEFORE YOU TODAY IS AN APPLICATION FOR A PROPOSAL TO VACATE A PORTION OF THE PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY NEAR THE ALLEY BEHIND THE PROPERTY OF 4301 LAKE STREET EAST. I WILL GIVE A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTEXT IN THIS PRESENTATION. [2:55] **Kimberly Holien:** BUT JUST TO TALK ABOUT THE PICTURE THAT'S ON THE SLIDE NOW, THIS PROPOSAL IS ONLY TO VACATE WHAT YOU SEE IN THE SOLID RED RECTANGLE HERE. AND WOULD NOT IMPACT THE MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC ALLEY RUNNING THROUGH THIS WALL. [3:15] **Kimberly Holien:** JUST TO GIVE YOU A CONTEXT ON THE EXISTING CONDITIONS, THIS IS FOR THE BLOCK THAT'S ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF LAKE STREET EAST AND OTHERWISE BOUNDED BY 31st STREET EAST TO THE SOUTH AND 33rd AND 34TH AVENUES TO THE WEST AND EAST SIDES. [3:31] **Kimberly Holien:** IT PRIMARILY CONSISTS OF LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL USES ON PROPERTIES WEST OF LAKE STREET. THE CONCRETE ALLEY THAT RUNS THROUGH THIS BLOCK THAT'S USED FOR ACCESSING PROPERTIES INCLUDING GARAGES AND TRASH PICKUP, ET CETERA. IT'S MOSTLY AN L-SHAPE CONCRETE ALLEY, SO IF YOU ARE STARTING AT THE SOUTH END OF THE PROPERTY FROM 31st STREET GOING INTO THE ALLEY, IF YOU'RE DRIVING NORTH, YOU CAN'T CONNECT ALL THE WAY TO LAKE STREET. [3:56] **Kimberly Holien:** YOU HAVE TO TURN RIGHT TO THE EAST AND BACK ONTO 44th AVENUE. BUT THERE IS SOME ADDITIONAL DEDICATED RIGHT-OF-WAY WITHIN THIS BLOCK, SPECIFICALLY A WESTWARD EXTENSION NEAR THE TURN OF THE ALLEY IS PART OF THAT DEDICATED PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY. [4:16] **Kimberly Holien:** AND AGAIN THIS IS PRIMARILY BEHIND THE HIGHLIGHTED PARCEL WHICH IS 4301 LAKE STREET EAST. SO THIS IS ONE OTHER DIRECTLY ADJACENT PARCEL WHICH IS A DUPLEX ON THE SOUTH SIDE. THIS ADDITIONAL DEDICATED RIGHT-OF-WAY AREA IS NOT IMPROVED AS AN EXTENSION FOR ACCESSING THE ALLEYS ON THIS BLOCK. [4:38] **Kimberly Holien:** AND IT DOES NOT CONNECT ALL THE WAY TO 43rd AVENUE TO THE WEST. AND ALSO JUST SHOWING THE GOOGLE STREET VIEW SCREEN SHOT HERE AND IF YOU CAN SEE WHERE I PUT THAT RED ARROW ON THE MAP SHOWING WHAT VIEW THIS IS SUPPOSED TO CAPTURE. [4:55] **Kimberly Holien:** THIS IS LOOKING TO THE WEST TOWARDS THAT RIGHT-OF-WAY THAT FUNCTIONALLY IS BASICALLY AN EXTENSION OF THE PARKING LOT FOR THE 4301 LAKE STREET PARCEL. AND THERE IS A SLIGHT SLOPE UP FROM THE ALLEY LEVEL TO THAT PARKING LOT WITHIN THIS ADDITIONAL RIGHT-OF-WAY. [5:14] **Kimberly Holien:** STAFF DOES RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS APPLICATION, AGAIN IN THE MAP ON THE LEFT WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT VACATING THIS ADDITIONAL RIGHT-OF-WAY THAT IS IN THAT SOLID RED RECTANGLE. ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE IT'S SHOWING THE SAME AREA ON THE EXHIBIT PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT'S SURVEYOR. [5:34] **Kimberly Holien:** THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IN THIS CASE DOES INCLUDE ANALYSIS AND REVIEW BY NOT JUST MYSELF AND MY COLLEAGUES IN CPED, BUT ALSO PUBLIC WORKS STAFF. IT'S BEEN FOUND THAT THIS IS NOT PART OF A PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION CORRIDOR. AGAIN THIS SPECIFIC AREA IN QUESTION HERE, NOT NEEDED FOR ANY PUBLIC PURPOSE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY EASEMENTS FOR UTILITIES OR INFRASTRUCTURE. THERE WERE A TOTAL OF TWO PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WERE RECEIVED AND BOTH OF WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE AVAILABLE. I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT HAS A REPRESENTATIVE IN TODAY'S HEARING. [6:12] **Kimberly Holien:** BUT I'M READY TO STAND FOR QUESTIONS. **President Meyer:** I HAVE ONE. IN THE PUBLIC COMMENTS WE RECEIVED, THEY ASKED THIS TO DENY THIS SO THAT THEY CAN PRESERVE THIS AS A GREEN SPACE. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE? IF THE CITY WANTED TO TURN IT INTO GREEN SPACE, WHAT WOULD BE THE PROCESS THEY WOULD NEED TO DO TO ACCOMPLISH THAT? [6:32] **Kimberly Holien:** CHAIR MEYER, COMMISSIONERS, FRANKLY I'M NOT SURE WHAT ALL THAT WOULD ENTAIL. I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE EXACT HISTORY OF THIS SPECIFIC AREA OR THIS BLOCK. THERE'S A LOT OF UNUSUAL PLATTING AND FURTHER CHANGES TO PROPERTY LINES IN THIS AREA. [6:50] **Kimberly Holien:** SO I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO PIECE TOGETHER THE COMPLETE HISTORY HERE. ULTIMATELY SORT OF THE USE OF DEDICATED RIGHT-OF-WAY THAT IS CONTROLLED BY THE CITY IS PRIMARILY HANDLED BY OUR PUBLIC WORKS STAFF. [7:07] **Kimberly Holien:** BUT FRANKLY I'M NOT SURE WHAT EXACT STEPS WOULD NEED TO HAPPEN IN ORDER TO CONVERT THIS INTO A FORMAL PUBLIC GREEN SPACE AS AN EXAMPLE. **President Meyer:** OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF BEFORE I OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? [7:24] **President Meyer:** ALL RIGHT. SEEING NONE, I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. I'M GOING TO ASK EACH SPEAKER TO LIMIT YOURSELF TO TWO MINUTES. AND JUST TO NOTE TO SPEAK CLEARLY INTO THE MICROPHONE SO THAT OUR CAPTIONERS CAN ACCURATELY DOCUMENT YOUR COMMENTS FOR THE AUDIENCE AT HOME. [7:41] **President Meyer:** I HAVE THREE SPEAKERS ON MY LIST AND I'LL CALL THEM UP IN ORDER. FIRST I HAVE TYLER AUGUSTINO AND THEN JAY MATIAS WILL BE SECOND AND CATHY ERICSON IS THIRD. [7:59] **Tyler Augustino:** MY PROPERTY AT 3013 AND 3015 HAS THE MOST FRONTAGE TO THE PROPOSED VACATION AND I ACTUALLY DO HAVE A COUPLE OF RESPONSES ABOUT THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED TO THE STAFF MEMBER THAT WERE NOT ABLE TO BE ANSWERED. [8:17] **Tyler Augustino:** THE SLIGHT INCLINE IS BECAUSE THE PARKING LOT WAS LEVELED AT THE TIME IT WAS DEVELOPED OR PAVED I SHOULD SAY. AND THEN ALSO THE ALLEY WAS INTENDED TO PROVIDE A NON LAKE STREET, NON-ARTERIAL ACCESS TO THAT PARCEL WHICH DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO 43rd AVENUE. [8:34] **Tyler Augustino:** SO THAT'S THE REASON WHY THAT ALLEY EXTENSION EXISTS EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT IN USE BECAUSE THERE IS NO CURRENTLY ANY PROPERTY DEVELOPED ON THAT PARCEL. WHAT I HAVE SEEN FROM THE DEVELOPER IS THAT THEY'VE DEVELOPED—AND IN THE STAFF REPORT THIS WAS ALLUDED TO—THEY'VE DEVELOPED SEVERAL PLANS FOR THIS PROPERTY AND NONE HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED AND IN THE CITY STAFF REPORT IT SAID THERE'S AN INTENDED FUTURE PROPOSAL FOR DEVELOPMENT. [9:08] **Tyler Augustino:** AS MULTIPLE PROPOSALS HAVE COME THROUGH, THEY HAVE NOT FOLLOWED THROUGH AND THE PROPERTY CONTINUES TO HAVE BLIGHT. AND SO I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD WANT THE CITY TO GIVE UP ITS OPTIONALITY ON THIS PROPERTY AT THE TIME THAT THE DEVELOPER HAS NOT SHOWN THAT THEY HAVE FOLLOW THROUGH ON REDEVELOPING THE PROPERTY. [9:29] **Tyler Augustino:** THAT IS WHY I AM OPPOSED TO THIS VACATION AT THIS TIME, NOT PERMANENTLY, BUT AT THIS TIME I DON'T THINK THAT THEY HAVE SHOWN THAT IT IS NECESSARY FOR THEM TO MOVE FORWARD OR SHOWN THAT PLANS ARE IN PLACE THAT THEY WILL FOLLOW THROUGH ON TO REDEVELOP THE PROPERTY. [9:44] **Tyler Augustino:** THANK YOU. **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. NEXT WE HAVE, I CAN'T READ THE FULL FIRST NAME. IT STARTS WITH A J, MATTIAS. [10:01] **Joel Mathias:** HELLO, JOEL MATHIAS HERE. FROM WHAT LITTLE I UNDERSTAND OF THIS, IF ANYBODY HERE CAN EXPLAIN TO THE ROOM PRECISELY WHAT A VACATION MEANS, THE IMPLICATIONS THEREOF, WOULD THE COUNTY OR THE CITY BE SELLING THIS TO THE DEVELOPER AND SOME MONEY GET BACK TO THE TAXPAYER? [10:19] **Joel Mathias:** WOULD IT BE GIVEN? THAT'S JUST A CURIOSITY OF MINE. I TEND TO AGREE WITH DR. JOSH HANNEN AT THE RIVER LAKE CLINIC WHICH IS ADJACENT TO THE PROPOSED AREA THAT AT THIS TIME THE DEVELOPERS HAVE NOT GIVEN ANY SOLID PLANS ON WHAT THEY WOULD PROPOSE TO DO WITH THE SPACE. [10:43] **Joel Mathias:** I AM NOT NECESSARILY OPPOSED TO IT BEING DEVELOPED BECAUSE YES, THE CURRENT STATUS IS BLIGHT AND SOME MORE HOUSING OR SOMETHING ELSE COMMERCIAL COULD BE NICE. AND AT THE MOMENT NOT SEEING ANY SOLID PLANS, I PERSONALLY AM AGAINST IT AT THIS MOMENT. [11:05] **Joel Mathias:** I DO LIKE MS. CATHY ERICSON'S IDEA OF THE GREEN SPACE. I THINK THAT COULD BE ENTERTAINED AND POSSIBLY INCORPORATED IN WITH ANYTHING A DEVELOPER MAY HAVE. BUT I GUESS THE PRIMARY THRUST TOO OF WHAT I'M UP HERE SPEAKING IS THAT IF THE CITY OR COUNTY IS TO RELINQUISH, VACATE THIS SPACE FOR COMMERCIAL ENTITY FOR THEIR OWN PROFIT NOT KNOWING WHETHER OR NOT THAT MONEY WOULD BE KEPT IN THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS IN HENNEPIN COUNTY AND DOING ANY BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY HERE, IT DOES NOT FEEL RIGHT TO VACATE THAT FOR SOMETHING THAT COULD DO NOTHING TO BENEFIT US. THANK YOU. [11:51] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. NEXT WE HAVE CATHY ERICSON. [12:08] **Cathy Ericson:** HI, GOOD EVENING. I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH ALL OF MY NEIGHBORS THAT HAVE COME UP HERE PRIOR TO THIS. I AM THE ONE THAT PROPOSED A GREEN SPACE THERE. AND I THINK IT WOULD BE LOVELY. I GREW UP IN THAT AREA, I HAVE BEEN THERE PRETTY MUCH ALL OF MY LIFE. [12:26] **Cathy Ericson:** AND HAVE BEEN ABLE TO USE THAT PUBLIC SPACE AT WILL. I WOULD BE DISAPPOINTED IF A COMMERCIAL ENTITY WOULD COME IN, USE THAT SPACE, AND THEN HAVE IT BLOCKED FROM ANY KIND OF PUBLIC ACCESS. PRIVATE PROPERTY, YOU CAN'T CROSS, THAT WOULD BE HARD. THAT WOULD BE DEVASTATING. I'VE SEEN OUR NEIGHBORS DOGS BEING TRAINED IN THAT AREA. I'VE SEEN CHILDREN LEARNING TO RIDE THEIR BIKES THERE IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO AROUND THEIR BLOCK. I'VE SEEN FAMILIES PLAY BALL, CATCH DURING HOLIDAY TIMES. [12:43] **Cathy Ericson:** I JUST DON'T THINK THAT IT WOULD BE A GOOD THING JUST TO GIVE IT UP AS A NEIGHBORHOOD ADVANTAGE. SO IF WE COULD KEEP THAT AND TURN IT INTO SOMETHING LOVELY TO USE, OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS, THAT WOULD BE A BENEFIT TO ALL. [13:00] **Cathy Ericson:** SO THANK YOU. **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. DID ANYONE ELSE WANT TO SPEAK TO THIS ITEM? ONE MORE. GO AHEAD AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES. [13:17] **Applicant Representative:** GOOD EVENING. I'M WITH THE APPLICANT AND THE OWNER. WE ARE LOOKING AT A DEVELOPMENT SITE ON THIS CORNER. BUT DEVELOPMENT AND UNCERTAINTY IS PROBLEMATIC. SO ONE OF THE ITEMS OF CERTAINTY IS WHAT IS THE SIZE AND THE SHAPE OF THE LOT. [13:35] **Applicant Representative:** SO WE'VE PUT FORWARD, WE ARE LOOKING AT A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS. THERE'S A LOT OF HEADWINDS ON DEVELOPMENT OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. THOSE HEADWINDS ARE LIGHTENING UP AND WE'RE WORKING TOWARDS PUTTING A PLAN TOGETHER. THE FIRST STEP OF THAT PLAN IS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS OUR PROPERTY. SO ESSENTIALLY HALF OF THAT GOES BACK TO THE DEVELOPMENT, BUT WE THEN KNOW WHAT OUR PROPERTY BOUNDARIES ARE SO WE CAN MOVE FORWARD ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE LOT. FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES BASED ON THE SETBACKS FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, NOTHING IS GETTING BUILT ON THE AREA THAT'S BEING VACATED ANYWAYS. [13:53] **Applicant Representative:** SO I GUESS WITH THAT, I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. **President Meyer:** ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS ITEM? ALL RIGHT. SEEING NONE, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. [14:09] **President Meyer:** KIMBERLY, CAN YOU HELP ADDRESS THE QUESTIONS OF THE SECOND TESTIFIER BROUGHT UP. EXPLAIN TO US THE PROCESS FOR VACATING A PROPERTY, WHO IT GOES TO, WHO THE REVENUE GOES TO. [14:29] **Kimberly Holien:** SO FROM HERE, AGAIN A VACATION IS SOMETHING THESE RECOMMENDATIONS WE WORK WITH OUR PUBLIC WORKS TEAM ON. THEY LOOK AT WHETHER OR NOT THIS LAND IS NEEDED FOR A PUBLIC PURPOSE, A PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION CORRIDOR. THAT IS REALLY THE ONLY FINDING. THEY HAVE FOUND THAT IT IS NOT NEEDED FOR EITHER OF THOSE PURPOSES. SO FROM HERE, IT WOULD GO TO THE BIZ COMMITTEE, THE CITY COUNCIL, AND THEN THE FULL CITY COUNCIL, IT'S THEN FORWARDED ON TO HENNEPIN COUNTY AND FROM THERE IT'S LOOKED AT WHO OWNS UNDERLYING FEE TITLE AND THEN IT'S DISTRIBUTED ACCORDINGLY. [14:59] **Kimberly Holien:** THE CITY DOES NOT HAVE A ROLE IN THAT PORTION OF THE PROCESS. **President Meyer:** IS THIS A QUASI JUDICIAL OR QUASI LEGISLATIVE? **Kimberly Holien:** IT IS A LEGISLATIVE ITEM. **President Meyer:** THAT MEANS THE COMMISSION CAN MAKE WHATEVER RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE WANT TO THE COUNCIL. [15:18] **President Meyer:** SO FOR THE FINDING, IF IT'S A PUBLIC -- YOU SAID PUBLIC CORRIDOR OR PUBLIC PURPOSE? SO WOULD JUST HAVING A GATHERING SPACE BE A PUBLIC PURPOSE? **Kimberly Holien:** PUBLIC WORKS HAS FOUND THAT IT IS NOT. [15:34] **Kimberly Holien:** ALSO THE CITY TYPICALLY DOES NOT ACQUIRE SMALL PORTIONS OF LAND LIKE THIS TO USE FOR PUBLIC PARKS. WE HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE HERE FROM THE PARK BOARD WHO I'M SURE CAN SPEAK TO A LOT OF THIS. BUT TYPICALLY IT'S THE PARK BOARD WHO OPERATES THOSE SPACES AND WE DO HAVE OTHER SITUATIONS WHERE IT'S BEEN INVESTIGATED TO TURN BACK EXCESS RIGHT-OF-WAY TO BE USED AS POCKET PARKS. [16:04] **Kimberly Holien:** BUT THIS HAS NOT BEEN A CONVERSATION HERE. **President Meyer:** OKAY. COMMISSIONERS, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, OR MOTIONS? COMMISSIONER CONLEY. [16:22] **Commissioner Conley:** THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I THINK I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT WHO WAS JUST UP. MENTIONED THAT YOU MAY NOT EVEN DEVELOP ON THAT SMALL SPACE ANYWAY. AND I WONDERED IF YOU HAD CONSIDERED OR AS THE HEADWINDS START TO EASE UP, HAVE YOU WORKED WITH RESIDENTS IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA TO IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BUILD ON THAT, WHAT IT COULD BE USED FOR OR IF FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, THAT PIECE OF LAND COULD BE PART OF A PUBLIC AREA? [16:46] **President Meyer:** I'LL REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING TO HAVE THAT QUESTION. [16:55] **Applicant Representative:** YES, COMMISSIONER CONLEY. SO WHAT IT ESSENTIALLY DOES IS IT PUSHES EVERYTHING INWARD. SO IT REDUCES THE OPEN AREA ON THE INWARD OF THE SITE WE'RE TRYING TO DEVELOP. IT'S AN EXCEPTIONALLY SMALL PIECE OF LAND. I KIND OF WONDER HOW MUCH YOU COULD GATHER BETWEEN A SITE THAT SMALL TUCKED BETWEEN A GARAGE AND A FUTURE BUILDING ON THE BACK END OF AN ALLEY FRANKLY. [17:27] **Applicant Representative:** SO IT WILL BE OPEN SPACE BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE LOT LINE SETBACKS ARE IS WE'RE GOING TO BE NINE FEET OFF OF THAT PROPERTY LINE WHICH FROM THE CENTER LINE OF THAT, WE'RE GOING TO BE BEYOND THAT ANYWAYS. SO IT WOULD BE OPEN SPACE, BUT THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN MAYBE WHAT'S BEING SUGGESTED AS PUBLIC SPACE. SO I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THOSE TWO. WE ARE LOOKING AT DOING PLANTINGS, HAVING SPACE TO PUT TREES ALL OF THOSE THINGS. BUT NOT AS A PLACE TO GATHER. [17:42] **Commissioner Forney:** JUST FOR ALL TO BE AWARE, WITH THEIR DEVELOPMENT DEPENDING UPON EMPLOYEES OR IF IT'S A LIVING OR IN OTHER WORDS DWELLINGS, THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO PAY EITHER A PARKLAND DEDICATION FEE OR PART OF THEIR PARCEL WOULD GO TOWARDS POTENTIALLY A PARK. SO JUST FOR YOU TO KNOW, HOPEFULLY IT WILL MEET SOME OF THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY. [18:04] **President Meyer:** DID ANYONE ELSE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE DEVELOPER BEFORE I CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AGAIN? SO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, OR MOTIONS FOR THE MAIN MOTION? [18:26] **President Meyer:** ALL RIGHT, I'LL SAY I AM PERSONALLY SYMPATHETIC TO THE IDEA OF HAVING GREEN SPACE. I DON'T SEE A MECHANISM FOR US TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT TONIGHT SO I'M GOING TO GO WITH THE RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF AND PUBLIC WORKS. WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION? COMMISSIONER WAGNER. [18:41] **Commissioner Wagner:** THANK YOU, CHAIR MEYER. I WOULD ECHO THOSE COMMENTS AS WELL. I THINK THAT THE THOUGHT OF BUILDING A SMALL PARK IN THIS LOCATION IS A GOOD ONE, BUT IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT. UNLESS ANYONE ELSE HAS COMMENTS, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT STAFF FINDINGS. [19:00] **Commissioner Conley:** SECOND. **President Meyer:** IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, CLERK PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. **Clerk:** COMMISSIONER CHOWDHURY IS ABSENT. CONLEY. [19:15] **Commissioner Conley:** AYE. **Clerk:** FORNEY. **Commissioner Forney:** AYE. **Clerk:** GORDON. **Commissioner Gordon:** AYE. **Clerk:** JONES IS ABSENT. SKJEFTE IS ABSENT. SHEPPARD. **Commissioner Sheppard:** AYE. **Clerk:** WAGNER. **Commissioner Wagner:** AYE. **Clerk:** VICE PRESIDENT BAXLEY. **Vice President Baxley:** AYE. **Clerk:** AND PRESIDENT MEYER. [19:31] **President Meyer:** AYE. **Clerk:** THERE ARE SEVEN AYES. **President Meyer:** THAT PASSES. ALL RIGHT. MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER SEVEN. 4109 AND 4113 SHERIDAN AVENUE SOUTH. STAFF IS LINDSEY SILAS. IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY IF YOU WANTED TO SPEAK, PLEASE GO OVER TO OUR CLERK AND FILL IN YOUR NAME. I'M ONLY GOING TO BE CALLING PEOPLE FROM THE LIST. GO AHEAD, LINDSEY. [20:05] **Lindsey Silas (Staff):** GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR MEYER, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. THE PROJECT BEFORE YOU IS 4109 AND 4113 SHERIDAN AVENUE SOUTH. THIS CONSISTS OF TWO PARCELS. 4109 SHERIDAN IS VACANT AFTER THE DEMOLITION OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN 2022. 4113 CONTAINS A TWO AND A HALF STORY DUPLEX AND AN ATTACHED GARAGE. [20:27] **Lindsey Silas:** 4113 HAS A FLAG PORTION THAT CONNECTS SOUTH TO 42nd. AND THERE ARE SOME CONNECTIONS TO EASEMENTS FOR NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. CORRIDOR THREE RUNS THE LENGTH OF SHERIDAN IN THIS AREA. THIS IS AN INTERESTING SITE. YOU CAN SEE ON THE ZONING MAP WHERE THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT CUTS THROUGH THE SITE AT A DIAGONAL. [20:49] **Lindsey Silas:** AND THAT MEANS THAT THE SITE IS RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF THE SHORELINE OVERLAY DISTRICT WHICH IS 1,000 FEET FROM THE PROTECTED WATERS. SO THE REAR OF THE SITE IS LOCATED IN THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT AND THE FRONT OF THE SITE IS NOT LOCATED IN THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT. [21:09] **Lindsey Silas:** THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED TO DEMOLISH THE DUPLEX ON THE SOUTHERN LOT AND CONSTRUCT A THREE STORY BUILDING WITH 13 DWELLING UNITS. THEY HAVE PROPOSED THERE WILL BE 26 PARKING SPACES IN A PARTIALLY UNDERGROUND LEVEL. [21:28] **Lindsey Silas:** THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS ARE REQUIRED. SO IT'S CUP TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT OF THE PORTION OF THE BUILDING IN THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT FROM TWO AND A HALF STORIES TO THREE STORIES AND 35 FEET TO 40 FEET SIX INCHES. [21:43] **Lindsey Silas:** THAT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT APPLICATION IS WHAT HAS DRIVEN THIS APPLICATION TO COME BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION. BECAUSE THE OTHER THREE APPLICATIONS ON THEIR OWN WOULD HAVE BEEN AND ARE ADMINISTRATIVE. SO THE ADDITIONAL APPLICATIONS ARE SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR THE NEW 13 UNIT BUILDING. [21:59] **Lindsey Silas:** AN ADMINISTRATIVE INCREASE TO THE FAR FROM 1.5 TO 1.71 AND ADMINISTRATIVE HEIGHT INCREASE FOR THE PORTION OF THE BUILDING OUTSIDE THE SHORELAND OVERLAY TO INCREASE FROM 3 TO 4 STORIES. SO THOSE TWO ADMINISTRATIVE PORTIONS WHILE THEY ARE LISTED ON THE APPLICATION LIST, THOSE ARE ADMINISTRATIVE APPLICATIONS THAT STAFF HAS ASSESSED AND THE APPLICANT IS PROVIDING PREMIUMS FOR THOSE SO STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THOSE. [22:23] **Lindsey Silas:** SO THOSE ARE NOT IN YOUR PURVIEW TONIGHT. REALLY THE MAIN APPLICATION COMING BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IS THE APPLICATION TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT IN THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT FOR THAT SECTION OF THE BUILDING THAT'S LOCATED IN THE DISTRICT FROM 2.5 STORIES TO THREE STORIES. [22:39] **Lindsey Silas:** SO HERE'S AN AERIAL VIEW OF THE SITE. THE SITE IS LOCATED JUST A COUPLE BLOCKS TO THE WEST OF LAKE HARRIETT AND JUST A FEW BLOCKS DOWNTOWN OF LINDEN HILLS AREA. [22:56] **Lindsey Silas:** A VERY ZOOMED OUT SITE PLAN. I'LL GO THROUGH THE PLANS HERE RATHER QUICKLY. FEEL FREE TO STOP ME IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. THEY HAVE 26 SPACES. SOME OF THOSE SPACES ARE PROVIDED WHICH WE DO COUNT AS PARKING SPACES TOWARDS THEIR MAXIMUM. [23:11] **Lindsey Silas:** THERE IS 18 INDIVIDUAL STALLS BUT 26 SPACES TOTAL. THEY'RE PROVIDING BIKE PARKING BOTH WITHIN THE UNDERGROUND GARAGE AND AT GRADE IN A BIKE PARKING ROOM TO COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS ABOUT NOT HAVING TO ACCESS BIKE PARKING WITH STAIRS OR ELEVATORS. [23:28] **Lindsey Silas:** HERE IS THE SECOND AND THIRD FLOOR PLAN. AND THEN THE FOURTH FLOOR PLAN IS SHOWN HERE. THERE'S JUST ONE UNIT PROPOSED ON THE FOURTH FLOOR. IT DOES HAVE SETBACKS FROM THREE SIDES ON THE WEST, SOUTH, AND EAST TO LOCATE IT OUTSIDE OF THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT. [23:47] **Lindsey Silas:** HERE ARE SOME ELEVATIONS OF THE BUILDING. AND A RENDERING PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT. SO THE MAIN APPLICATION AT HAND IS THE INCREASE IN HEIGHT IN THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT. [24:08] **Lindsey Silas:** AND THEN I JUST KIND OF TO SET THE STAGE FOR WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT TODAY, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS A USE THAT BECAUSE OF UNIQUE CHARACTERISTICS ARE NOT PERMITTED BY RIGHT IN THE ZONING DISTRICT, BUT THAT MAY BE ALLOWED UPON SHOWING THAT SUCH USE IN A SPECIFIC LOCATION WILL COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS AND STANDARDS OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. [24:29] **Lindsey Silas:** CONDITIONAL USES MUST BE ALLOWED WHEN THOSE STANDARDS OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE ARE MET AND DENIAL OF CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS MUST BE BASED ON REAL DOCUMENTED HARMS OF THE USE THAT CANNOT BE MITIGATED THROUGH THE USE OF CONDITIONS. SO REALLY WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT INCREASE OF HEIGHT FROM 2.5 STORIES TO 3, ARE THERE REAL DOCUMENTED HARMS OF THAT INCREASE THAT ARE CLEARLY ABLE TO BE DEMONSTRATED. [24:55] **Lindsey Silas:** STAFF HAS FOUND THAT THE PROPOSAL IS ABLE TO MEET ALL OF THE FINDINGS BOTH FOR THE STANDARD CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FINDINGS AND FOR THE SPECIFIC CONDITIONS RELATED TO HEIGHT. THIS BUILDING IS ON THE VERY EDGE OF THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT MEANING THAT IT IS ON EITHER SIDE OF THE BOUNDARY OF 1,000 FEET FROM PROTECTED WATER. [25:19] **Lindsey Silas:** THE APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED A VARIETY OF PHOTOS SHOWING DIFFERENT VIEWS FROM LAKE HARRIET UP TOWARDS THE SITE. THERE'S SIGNIFICANT TOPOGRAPHICAL CHANGE. LOTS OF MATURE TREES, LOTS OF EXISTING BUILDINGS. AND BECAUSE THIS IS ON THE VERY EDGE OF THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT UP A STEEP HILL FROM THE LAKE, THERE IS GOING TO BE VERY LIMITED VISIBILITY IF ANY FROM THE LAKE. [25:41] **Lindsey Silas:** AND SO WE'RE ALSO THINKING ABOUT VISIBILITY OF THE INCREASE, RIGHT? SO IS THE HEIGHT INCREASE GOING FROM TWO AND HALF STORIES TO THREE STORIES, IS THAT WHAT'S GOING TO CAUSE THE BUILDING TO BE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE VISIBLE FROM PROTECTED WATERS COMPARED TO WHAT MAY BE ALLOWED BY RIGHT. [26:04] **Lindsey Silas:** STAFF FINDS THAT THESE CONDITIONS ARE MET. ALL UTILITIES, TRAFFIC INTERFACE, ALL OF THAT IS GOING TO BE MANAGED THROUGH THE SITE. STAFF DID RECEIVE JUST AN EMAIL TODAY NOTIFYING STAFF AND THE APPLICANT THAT THEY'LL HAVE TO WORK WITH THE MINNIEHAHA CREEK WATER SHED DISTRICT ON EROSION CONTROL MEASURES AND OTHER THINGS TO ENSURE KIND OF NO IMPACT ON THE WATERS AND THAT HAS BEEN COMMUNICATED TO THE APPLICANT. [26:36] **Lindsey Silas:** THE FINDINGS RELATED TO HEIGHT ARE ALSO MET. ONE OF THE FINDINGS IN THE INCREASE OF HEIGHT HAS TO DO WITH SURROUNDING PROPERTIES. AND THERE IS A CALL OUT FOR SOLAR ENERGY SYSTEMS IN SURROUNDING PROPERTIES. [26:56] **Lindsey Silas:** THERE IS A SOLAR ENERGY ON THE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH. SO THE APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED SOME PRESENTATIONS THAT SHOW THE IMPACT OF A BUILDING THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED BY RIGHT WITHOUT ANY HEIGHT INCREASE BOTH ADMINISTRATIVE AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND THEN THEIR PROPOSED BUILDING. [27:16] **Lindsey Silas:** THE PROPOSED BUILDING HAS OVER NINE FOOT SETBACKS ON BOTH SIDES AND BECAUSE THE BUILDING, THAT'S PARTIALLY BECAUSE THE BUILDING EXCEEDS 75% OF THE LOT DEPTH. SO THE REQUIRED SETBACK FOR A STANDARD BUILDING ON THIS LOT WOULD BE SEVEN FEET. FOR A BUILDING OF THE PROPOSED HEIGHT. [27:32] **Lindsey Silas:** BUT WITH THE ADDITIONAL DEPTH OF THE BUILDING AN ADDITIONAL TWO FEET IS REQUIRED ON EACH SIDE. SO THE APPLICANT IS PROVIDING NINE FOOT SETBACKS. THEY HAVE MODELED TWO DIFFERENT BUILDINGS THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED BY RIGHT. A BUILDING WITH THE EXACT SAME FOOTPRINT BUILT TO THE HEIGHT MAXIMUMS WITH A SEVEN FOOT SETBACK. [27:52] **Lindsey Silas:** AND A BUILDING THAT IS LESS THAN 75% OF THE LOT DEPTH, BUILT TO THE HEIGHT MAXIMUMS WITH A NINE FOOT SETBACK WHICH WOULD BE ALLOWED FOR A BUILDING WITH A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF 42 FEET. I CAN GO THROUGH THESE. THERE'S A NUMBER OF PAGES. BUT I THINK THESE WERE ALL IN YOUR PACKETS AS WELL. [28:10] **Lindsey Silas:** AND STAFF WAS NOT ABLE TO FIND ANY SORT OF SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PROPOSED BUILDING THAT REQUIRES A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR HEIGHT AND AN ADMIN HEIGHT INCREASE AND THE TWO DIFFERENT MODELED BUILDINGS THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE BUILT BY RIGHT. [28:25] **Lindsey Silas:** THE PROPOSED BUILDING HERE IS ON THE LEFT. AND THEN THE TWO MODELED BUILDINGS, THERE'S A LITTLE DESCRIPTION ON BOTH ARE ON THE MIDDLE AND THE RIGHT. YOU CAN REALLY SEE THAT THERE'S VERY, VERY LITTLE IMPACT SHOWN TO THE SOLAR ENERGY SYSTEM ON THE NEIGHBOR TO THE NORTH IN ANY OF THE MODELS. [28:44] **Lindsey Silas:** BUT THAT THEY DO NOT DIFFER BETWEEN THE PROPOSED BUILDING AND A BUILDING THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE CONSTRUCTED WITHOUT ANY LAND USE APPLICATIONS REQUIRING A PUBLIC HEARING. REALLY THE ONLY CHANGE IS POTENTIALLY THAT -- THERE'S A SMALL AMOUNT OF CHANGE. [29:05] **Lindsey Silas:** THAT'S REALLY ONE OF THE ONLY PLACES WHERE WE SEE ANY DIFFERENCE. AND STAFF WAS ABLE TO MAKE THE FINDING THAT THERE'S NO MEANINGFUL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BUILDING THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE CONSTRUCTED BY RIGHT HERE AND THE PROPOSED BUILDING THAT HAS THOSE ADDITIONAL SETBACKS TO MAKE UP FOR THAT ADDITIONAL HEIGHT. [29:29] **President Meyer:** I HAVE ONE. IN THE PUBLIC COMMENTS WE RECEIVED, MANY OF THE QUESTIONS WE'VE RECEIVED HAVE TO DO WITH NOTIFICATION. SO WITHIN THE 350 FOOT RADIUS, DO YOU KNOW THAT EVERYONE WAS NOTIFIED BY OCTOBER 13TH? [30:25] **Lindsey Silas:** YES. WE WERE ABLE TO PULL THE SPREADSHEET THAT IS GENERATED BY HENNEPIN COUNTY. THEY HAVE A LOCATE AND NOTIFY TOOL WHICH OUR CLERKS USE TO SEND OUT THOSE NOTIFICATIONS. I CAN SEE THAT ALL OF THE NOTIFICATIONS WERE SENT. WHETHER SOME NOTIFICATIONS GOT LOST IN THE MAIL OR WEREN'T RECEIVED FOR SOME REASON OR ANOTHER, IT'S CERTAINLY UNFORTUNATE. [30:44] **Lindsey Silas:** BUT WE CAN SEE THAT THE FULL LIST OF PROPERTY OWNERS WITHIN 350 FEET WERE SENT NOTIFICATIONS BY THE CITY. AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S ALL WE CAN DO. WE CAN SEND THE NOTICES, BUT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT EVERY SINGLE PERSON WILL RECEIVE THEM. I WILL SAY JUST GIVEN THE LEVEL OF ENGAGEMENT ON THE PROPERTY, WE SEE THAT THE DEVELOPER HAS MET WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD GROUP AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF ACTIVATION IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AROUND THE PROJECT. [31:10] **Lindsey Silas:** HOPEHULLY FOLKS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN LEARNING MORE AND SPEAKING ABOUT THE PROJECT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO LEARN ABOUT IT. **President Meyer:** IF I MAY ASK ANOTHER ONE, THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE ADMINISTRATIVE, THE FOUR-STORY PENTHOUSE PART. THIS IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE REQUEST. IT'S GRANTED BASED ON A PREMIUM. BUT THE PREMIUM IS NOT CLEAR TO ME. DO WE KNOW WHAT PROGRAM IS BEING PURSUED? THIS MAY BE A QUESTION FOR THE DEVELOPER. [31:47] **Lindsey Silas:** THEY'RE PURSUING THE ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY PREMIUM WHICH IS TO PROVIDE 50% OF THE BUILDING'S ENERGY AS RENEWABLE. THEY CAN DO THAT THROUGH ON SITE PRODUCTION OF TYPICALLY SOLAR OR THROUGH PURCHASING RENEWABLE ENERGY CREDITS. **President Meyer:** GREAT, THANK YOU. [32:02] **Commissioner Sheppard:** THIS IS ALSO RELATED TO THE ADMINISTRATIVE HEIGHT INCREASE AND THE PREMIUM. COULD THAT ADMINISTRATIVE HEIGHT INCREASE BE USED FOR THE TWO AND A HALF STORIES INSTEAD OF THE THREE TO THE FOUR? [32:14] **Lindsey Silas:** THE SITE ITSELF IS LOCATED IN CORRIDOR THREE BUILT FORM OVERLAY DISTRICT WHICH ALLOWS THREE STORIES BY RIGHT AND FOR A PREMIUM TO GO UP TO THAT FOUR STORIES. SO THAT PORTION, THAT ADMIN HEIGHT INCREASE APPLIES ONLY TO THE PORTION OF THE BUILDING OUTSIDE OF THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT. THE HEIGHT MAXIMUM IN THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT IS TWO AND A HALF STORIES OR 35 FEET. SO THE ZONING CODE ALLOWS FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT, BUT THE PREMIUM DOESN'T APPLY IN THE SAME WAY. [32:43] **Vice President Baxley:** THANK YOU, LINDSEY. QUICK METHODOLOGY QUESTION ON THE SOLAR STUDIES. ARE WE EVALUATING THESE SHADOW LENGTH JUST BY VISUALS OR ARE WE GETTING MEASUREMENTS? LIKE HOW ARE YOU COMPARING THEM? [33:01] **Lindsey Silas:** SO THE APPLICANT HAD PROVIDED LIKE A SMALL WRITTEN SUMMARY SAYING THAT THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO MODEL OUT ANY DIFFERENCES. BUT I KNOW THE APPLICANT HAS THEIR ARCHITECT HERE AS WELL SO THEY CAN PROBABLY SPEAK A LITTLE MORE TO ANY ADDITIONAL DETAIL. BUT STAFF WAS EVALUATING THEM BASED ON THE PROVIDED IMAGES FROM THE SHADOW STUDIES WHICH WE WENT BACK AND FORTH WITH THE APPLICANT A COUPLE OF TIMES. [33:22] **Lindsey Silas:** SO THE STUDIES THAT ARE IN FRONT OF YOU TODAY ARE MORE DETAILED WITH ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THAT STAFF HAD BEEN REQUESTING. **Vice President Baxley:** OKAY. WE'LL ASK THE APPLICANT WHEN THEY COME UP. THANK YOU. [33:43] **President Meyer:** LINDSEY, CAN YOU GO OVER WITH ME ONE MORE TIME WHICH THINGS ARE UNDER OUR PURVIEW AND WHICH OTHER ONES WOULD BE ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED? UNDER THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, SO THE 2.5 TO 3 STORIES IS UNDER OUR PURVIEW. THE REST IS NOT, IS THAT CORRECT? [34:03] **Lindsey Silas:** THE SITE PLAN IS UNDER YOUR PURVIEW IN THE EXTENT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T COMPLY WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OR ZONING CODE. IF THERE WERE NO CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THE OTHER THREE APPLICATIONS WOULD BE ABLE TO BE REVIEWED ADMINISTRATIVELY. I KNOW THERE WERE SOME INITIAL CONVERSATIONS WITH THE DEVELOPER ABOUT A PROJECT THAT COULD BE REVIEWED FULLY ADMINISTRATIVELY, SO THAT WOULD NOT HAVE INVOLVED ANY PUBLIC HEARING FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION. [34:18] **Lindsey Silas:** IT'S REALLY THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THAT TAKES THIS WHOLE PACKAGE FORWARD IN FRONT OF YOU. SO SITE PLAN REVIEW IS UNDER YOUR PURVIEW IF THERE WERE CONDITIONS YOU WANTED TO ADD. BUT SIMILAR TO OTHER APPLICATIONS THAT HAVE ARE KIND OF HIGHER UP ON THE DISCRETIONARY PYRAMID, THERE'S NOT AS MUCH DISCRETION WITH THE SITE PLAN REVIEW APPLICATION WHEN THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING A BUILDING THAT COMPLIES WITH THE BUILT FORM DISTRICT AND THE SETBACKS AND ALL OF THAT. [34:48] **President Meyer:** LOOKING AT WHAT'S ON THE AGENDA, WHICH ONES ARE NOT UNDER OUR PURVIEW? **Lindsey Silas:** THE ADMINISTRATIVE HEIGHT INCREASE AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE FAR INCREASE. **President Meyer:** OKAY. [35:05] **Kimberly Holien:** COMMISSIONER MEYER, JUST TO THAT POINT, AND ALSO WE'RE HANDING THESE OUT, I SAW NOBODY HAS THEIR -- THE FINDINGS RELATED TO THE SOLAR ARRAY ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY ARE TIED TO THE ADMINISTRATIVE HEIGHT INCREASE, NOT THE C.U.P. FOR HEIGHT IN THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT. IT IS ONE OF THE APPLICATIONS THAT IS ESSENTIALLY NOT UNDER THE PURVIEW OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO MAKE. **President Meyer:** OKAY. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S CLEAR TO THE AUDIENCE. THE SOLAR STUDIES, NONE OF THAT IS UNDER OUR PURVIEW. [35:36] **Lindsey Silas:** THERE IS A FINDING UNDER THE C.U.P., UNDER THE HEIGHT INCREASE THAT YOU CAN FOR AT LEAST THAT REAR PORTION OF THE BUILDING, YOU CAN LOOK AT THAT IN TERMS OF ANY ADDITIONAL IMPACT FROM GOING TO TWO AND A HALF TO THREE ON THAT REAR PORTION OF THE BUILDING THAT'S IN THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT. THEY DO HAVE SIMILAR FINDINGS BETWEEN THE ADMIN HEIGHT INCREASE AND THE C.U.P. FOR HEIGHT IN THE SHORELAND. BUT THE C.U.P. ITSELF IS REALLY ATTACHED TO THAT REAR PORTION OF THE BUILDING. [35:48] **President Meyer:** OKAY. SO WE'VE APPROVED A LOT OF OTHER SHORELAND ORDINANCE C.U.P.'S BEFORE. IT'S A PRETTY ROUTINE THING FOR US TO DO. CAN YOU GIVE US THAT CONTEXT, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR WHEN WE'RE EVALUATING THOSE? [36:12] **Lindsey Silas:** YEAH, WE CAN JUST TALK ABOUT WHAT IS ALLOWED HERE. SO SHERIDAN AVENUE WAS IDENTIFIED THROUGH THE 2040 PLAN AS BEING A PLACE WHERE ADDITIONAL DENSITY COULD BE LOCATED IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. I ASSUME THAT SOME OF THAT CAME FROM THE FACT THAT HIGH FREQUENCY BUS ROUTE SIX RUNS ON SHERIDAN WHICH NEXT MONTH WILL BECOME THE E LINE BRT SO THERE'S EXCELLENT TRANSIT SERVICE, EXCELLENT ACCESS TO AMENITIES, THE LAKES ARE RIGHT THERE. [36:30] **Lindsey Silas:** LINDEN HILLS HAS FANTASTIC COMMERCIAL NEAR HERE. THAT CORRIDOR IS IDENTIFIED AS CORRIDOR THREE. THAT MEANS THREE STORY BUILDINGS ARE ALLOWED BY RIGHT. BUT WHERE THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT EXISTS, THAT DOES REDUCE THE HEIGHT A BIT, THE ALLOWED HEIGHT. BUT AGAIN, THIS IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND NOT A VARIANCE. [37:04] **Lindsey Silas:** SINGLE FAMILY HOMES THAT ARE LOCATED IN THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT IN ORDER TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT MAY HAVE TO APPLY FOR A VARIANCE WHICH MEANS THAT THEY'RE HAVING TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THERE'S A PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY ON THE SITE RESULTING IN THE INCREASED HEIGHT REQUEST. THAT DOESN'T APPLY TO THESE LARGER BUILDINGS OUTSIDE OF THE LOW DENSITY AREAS BECAUSE THAT WAS A POLICY DECISION MADE AROUND THE TIME OF THE LAND USE REZONING STUDY THAT THERE MAY BE CASES WHERE THE COMP PLAN HAS IDENTIFIED ADDITIONAL DENSITY WHERE IT MAY BE APPROPRIATE TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT OF A BUILDING THAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE LIMITED IN HEIGHT BY THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT. [37:42] **Lindsey Silas:** SO REALLY YOU'RE KIND OF LOOKING AT THE BOX OF WHAT'S ALLOWED THERE. AND THAT WOULD BE A FOUR STORY BUILDING WITH THE PROVISION OF A PREMIUM. AND THEN YOU'RE KIND OF EVALUATING IS IT APPROPRIATE TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT SLIGHTLY TO MAYBE MEET THOSE GOALS OF THE COMP PLAN ALLOWING FOR ADDITIONAL HOUSING CLOSE TO TRANSIT AND NATURAL AMENITIES, THAT SORT OF THING. [38:05] **President Meyer:** A LOT OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WE'VE RECEIVED ASK US TO DENY ANY VARIANCES. SO JUST TO CLARIFY, THERE ARE NO VARIANCES IN THIS APPLICATION, IS THAT CORRECT? **Lindsey Silas:** THERE ARE NO VARIANCES, THAT IS CORRECT. [38:20] **President Meyer:** FOR FOLKS THAT ARE HERE, A VARIANCE IS SOMETHING IN THE ZONING CODE THAT YOU'RE SPECIFICALLY ASKING—A RULE YOU'RE ASKING TO BREAK IN THE ZONING CODE SPECIFICALLY. WHEREAS A CONDITIONAL USE IN THE ZONING CODE IS SOMETHING THAT MAY BE ALLOWED AS LONG AS YOU'RE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THERE AREN'T ADDITIONAL HARMS BY ALLOWING THAT USE. SO THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. THERE'S NO VARIANCE REQUESTED HERE. THE APPLICANT ISN'T REQUESTING TO KIND OF BREAK ANY SORT OF STANDARD THAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE SET FORTH. THEY'RE JUST ASKING TO ALLOW A USE WHICH IS ADDITIONAL HEIGHT—IT'S A LITTLE CONFUSING—THAT JUST REQUIRES THIS EXTRA REVIEW BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION. [39:03] **President Meyer:** OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. AND JUST FOR THE AUDIENCE AS WE TESTIFY, THERE ARE NO VARIANCES. THERE IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. IF THERE ARE CONDITIONS THAT YOU WANT TO SEE OR HARMS THAT YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE CREATED, THOSE ARE THE TYPE OF THINGS THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO COMMENT ON, BUT THERE ARE NO VARIANCES. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE WE PROCEED TO THE PUBLIC HEARING? [39:22] **President Meyer:** ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU, LINDSEY. DO WE HAVE THE APPLICANT WITH US? WE'LL GIVE THE APPLICANT TEN MINUTES. [39:39] **Josh Siegel (Applicant):** GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS JOSH SIEGEL. FOUNDER AND PRINCIPAL OF JLS DESIGN BUILD. I'M HERE WITH THE ARCHITECTS. WE'LL TAKE THIS AS A DUAL. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TONIGHT. OUR PROPOSAL FOR 4109, 4113 SHERIDAN, WE'RE VERY EXCITED TO BRING TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF FOR THEIR DETAILED AND PROFESSIONAL REVIEW AND THE NEIGHBORS WHO HAVE ENGAGED THOUGHTFULLY THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS. WE SHARE A COMMON GOAL TO ENSURE THAT WHAT'S BUILT IN LINDEN HILLS ENHANCES THIS EXTRAORDINARY NEIGHBORHOOD AND REFLECTS ITS LEGACY. [40:18] **Josh Siegel:** THIS PROJECT REPRESENTS YEARS OF CAREFUL DESIGN REFINEMENT TO CREATE THE SMALL SCALE HIGH QUALITY RESIDENTIAL BUILDING THAT STRENGTHENS THE FABRIC OF LINDEN HILLS COMMUNITY. WE FULLY UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE THE PRIDE RESIDENTS FEEL FOR THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE LIVE AND WORK HERE TOO. THE SAME PRIDE IS WHAT GUIDED EVERY DESIGN DECISION WE MADE. THAT'S WHY OUR BUILDING MASSING IS INTENTIONALLY SET BACK FROM THE STREET, USES WARM MATERIALS LIKE BRICK AND WOOD, AND IS SCALED TO COMPLEMENT THE RHYTHM OF SHERIDAN AVENUE. [40:52] **Josh Siegel:** WE'VE LISTENED CAREFULLY TO COMMUNITY FEEDBACK AND MADE MULTIPLE REFINEMENTS. I'D LIKE TO BRING IN JOSH TO DISCUSS THE SHADOW AND VISIBILITY STUDIES AND WE WOULD LOVE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AND CONCLUDE. [41:07] **Josh Hill (Architect):** GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. IS THERE A WAY TO ACCESS THIS FOR -- **President Meyer:** YES. CAN WE HAVE SOMEONE HELP HIM OUT WITH THAT? **Josh Hill:** ALL RIGHT. SO I'M NOT GOING TO BE SEEING IT HERE. **President Meyer:** WE CAN SEE IT FINE. [41:22] **Josh Hill:** OKAY, GREAT. I WANTED TO ADDRESS FIRST AND FOREMOST THE 15-FOOT SETBACK ALONG SHERIDAN. AND IT WAS STATED THAT WE SET BACK THE BUILDING EVEN FURTHER FOR DRIVE ACCESS. YES, WE DID THAT, BUT A GOOD PORTION OF THAT BUILDING COULD BE PUSHED FURTHER TO SHERIDAN, BUT TRYING TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT, WE WANTED TO REFLECT THE SETBACKS OF THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES ALONG SHERIDAN AVENUE. [41:55] **Josh Hill:** SO I WILL POINT JUST REALLY QUICK, IT WAS DESCRIBED AS THE COLUMN ON THE LEFT IS OUR PROPOSED BUILDING. THE COLUMN IN THE MIDDLE IS OUR EXHIBIT 1 WHICH THE PROPOSED BUILDING FOOTPRINT WOULD BE THE SAME. OR THE BUILDING FOOTPRINT WOULD BE THE SAME AS THE PROPOSED WITH A REDUCTION IN THE HEIGHT TO 42 FEET IN THE FRONT HALF ALONG SHERIDAN AND 35 FEET IN THE REAR WITH SEVEN FOOT YARD SETBACKS. [42:26] **Josh Hill:** THE EXHIBIT 2 TAKES THAT FOOTPRINT AND SHORTENS IT FOR THE 75% OF THE TOTAL LENGTH OF THE LOT WIDTH. SO IN THESE FINDINGS, I THINK MR. BAXLEY, YOU EXPRESSED HOW WAS THIS GENERATED? SO WE'RE USING, WE'RE AT THE CONFINES OF THE PROGRAM THAT WE'RE USING. SO WHAT WAS IMPORTANT TO US WAS THE OVERALL BUILDING HEIGHT, THE SITE HAS A TON OF TOPOGRAPHY IN THIS AREA. SHERIDAN IS VERY LOW. EVERYTHING COMES UP. [43:01] **Josh Hill:** SO WHAT REALLY WAS I GUESS THE IMPETUS FOR THE STUDY WAS TRYING TO SEE THE EFFECT ON NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES AND OBVIOUSLY THE NEIGHBOR TO THE NORTH. IN THESE FINDINGS OF THESE THREE SCENARIOS, I THINK YOU CAN SEE FOR THE MOST PART IN THE ATUMNAL DATES OF MARCH 31ST AND SEPTEMBER 21ST, YOU'RE SEEING A VERY CONSISTENT SHADOW PATTERN. [43:31] **Josh Hill:** AND THEN WHERE WE GET INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE EFFECT ON THE PROJECT WOULD BE OBVIOUSLY THE EXTREMES. DECEMBER 21ST WHERE YOU'RE STARTING TO SEE THOSE EARLY MORNING AND LATE SUNSET SHADOWS AFFECTING THAT NORTH PROPERTY. [44:12] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? COMMISSIONER SHEPPARD. **Commissioner Sheppard:** JUST TO BE CLEAR, JOSH, THE EXHIBITS 1 AND 2 ARE WHAT YOU CAN BUILD WITHOUT EVEN VISITING US? **Josh Hill:** CORRECT. **Commissioner Sheppard:** THANK YOU. [44:28] **Vice President Baxley:** THANKS, JOSH. SO JUST ON THE -- WE HAVEN'T ACTUALLY MEASURED SHADOW LENGTH DIFFERENCES, IT'S REALLY GRAPHICALLY DEPICTED HERE, RIGHT? **Josh Hill:** OKAY THANKS. [44:44] **Commissioner Gordon:** THIS IS JUST A QUESTION ABOUT THE INCLUSION OF ENCLOSED PARKING. HOW MUCH IS THE ENCLOSED PARKING ADDING TO THE OVERALL HEIGHT OF THE STRUCTURE? I KNOW YOU'RE GETTING A PREMIUM FOR THAT FOR THE FAR. WOULD THE HEIGHT BE LESS WITHOUT THE ENCLOSED PARKING? [45:00] **Josh Hill:** WITHOUT PARKING AT ALL? **Commissioner Gordon:** YEAH, IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT PARKING LEVEL? **Josh Hill:** YOU WOULD BE DROPPING THE BUILDING A LITTLE BIT. **Commissioner Gordon:** HOW MUCH? **Josh Hill:** GIVE ME A SECOND. [45:28] **President Meyer:** DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS WHILE THEY'RE LOOKING THAT UP? **Josh Hill:** ROUGHLY FIVE FEET. **Commissioner Gordon:** ROUGHLY FIVE FEET. AND GIVEN THAT YOU'RE AT A SCHEMATIC LEVEL DESIGN AND YOU'RE USING EARLY ON PROBABLY SKETCH UP OR SOMETHING TO DESIGN THIS. HOW CONFIDENT ARE YOU IN YOUR SLOPES FOR THE PARKING AND THE REPERCUSSIONS OF STRUCTURAL CHANGES AS THE DESIGN CHANGES. SOMETIMES AS THE DESIGN DEVELOPS YOU GET A THICKER SLAB, YOU DROP THE HEIGHT IN ORDER TO GET THE CLEARANCE FOR A VEHICLE? [45:49] **Josh Hill:** GOOD QUESTION. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT BASICALLY SETS THE BUILDING. SO THAT'S PART OF THE APPLICATION. WE VETTED THAT IN TERMS OF STRUCTURAL SYSTEM. WHAT OUR PODIUM WOULD BE, THE THICKNESS OF THAT TO GET APPROPRIATE CLEARANCE AND A RAMP DOWN THAT IS NOT EXCESSIVE. SO I THINK THAT AND THEN TO YOUR POINT ON USING SKETCH UP, VERIFYING IN THE DOCUMENT YOU CAN SEE A COUPLE OF KEY PEAK HEIGHTS OF THE NEIGHBORING PARCELS AND THE HOUSES THAT YOU CAN GET PRETTY EASILY OFF OF GOOGLE EARTH. SETTING OUR BUILDING RELATIVE TO THOSE PEAKS AND THE ELEVATION ON SHERIDAN AVENUE MAKE ME FEEL VERY CONFIDENT ON THE SHADOW STUDIES THAT I PROVIDED. [46:36] **Commissioner Gordon:** OKAY, THANKS. [46:52] **President Meyer:** ANYONE ELSE? THANK YOU. SO FAR WE HAVE I BELIEVE 19 PEOPLE WHO ARE SIGNED UP. SO I'M GOING TO BE READING THEM IN ORDER. PLEASE FORGIVE ME IF I MISPRONOUNCE YOUR NAME. AND JUST A REMINDER, YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES AND YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY SIGNED UP, PLEASE SIGN UP. I'M ONLY GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE SPEAK WHO SIGNED UP. FIRST WE HAVE JEROME RITTER WHO WILL BE FOLLOWED BY SIMON COHEN. JEROME. WELCOME, INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES. [47:32] **Jerome "Jerry" Ritter:** I'M JERRY RITTER. I HAVE LIVED AT 4108 SHERIDAN AVENUE FOR 54 YEARS. I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH ZONING AND BUILDING CODES IN MINNEAPOLIS. I'VE DONE OVER 100 PROJECTS IN MINNEAPOLIS INCLUDING SOME OF THE LARGEST BUILDINGS, LARGEST PUBLIC BUILDINGS IN THE CITY. I WAS THE ARCHITECT IN CHARGE. I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THIS PROPOSAL. I WANT YOU TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THE DRAWINGS THAT WERE PRESENTED TODAY DO NOT -- THERE'S NO DIMENSION FOR THE TOP OF THE BUILDING IF YOU'LL NOTICE THAT. [48:25] **Jerome Ritter:** AND ALSO THE THREE STORY BUILDING THE DIMENSIONS DON'T SHOW THE GUARDRAIL AT THE OCCUPIED THIRD ROOF LEVEL. THE DRAWING THAT WAS SHOWN AS PART OF THE PRESENTATION SHOWS NONEXISTENT TREES ON EACH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY LINE AND DOES NOT ACCURATELY REFLECT THE EXISTING CONDITIONS OF THE ADJACENT BUILDINGS. [49:01] **Jerome Ritter:** A MORE ACCURATE DEPICTION OF THOSE CONDITIONS ARE SHOWN IN THE COMMENT SECTION THAT I PROVIDED TO THIS PLANNING COMMISSION. I'M DEEPLY DISTURBED AS TO HOW THIS TRANSPIRED TO BE APPROVED. MOST IMPORTANTLY, ONCE YOU'VE GRANTED A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THIS, THE CITY WILL HAVE SET A PRECEDENT FOR ZONING DISTRICTS -- FOR THESE ZONING DISTRICTS AND ONCE THOSE PRECEDENTS ARE CROSSED, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO RESCIND THEM. [49:40] **Jerome Ritter:** WE ASK THAT THE PROPOSED CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT BE DENIED. AT A MINIMUM WE ASK THAT THE REQUEST BE TABLED UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE ITEMS BROUGHT UP BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD BE ADDRESSED AND RESOLVED. [49:58] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. NEXT WE HAVE SIMON COHEN FOLLOWED BY TIM GUSTIN. [50:14] **Simon Cohen:** I'M SIMON COHEN OF 4007 SHERIDAN AVENUE SOUTH. ON THE DEVELOPER'S WEBSITE, IT STATES THAT THEY TRANSFORM UNDERPERFORMING REAL ESTATE INTO THRIVING PROPERTIES. IS IT THIS COMMISSION'S OPINION THAT THE LINDEN HILLS NEIGHBORHOOD IS UNDERPERFORMING AND NOT THRIVING? DOES THIS MEAN THAT ANY SINGLE FAMILY HOME IS UNDERPERFORMING AND THEREFORE SHOULD BE DEVELOPED? [50:30] **Simon Cohen:** ON THE LAND USE APPLICATION IT STATES THE FOLLOWING GOALS FOR MINNEAPOLIS 2040 APPLY TO THE PROPOSAL GOAL THREE, AFFORDABLE AND ACCESSIBLE HOUSING. WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING? THE CURRENT MEDIAN HOME SALE PRICE IN OUR ZIP CODE IS $475,000. IT'S RUMORED THAT EACH CONDO WILL SELL FOR ONE AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS EACH. HOW CAN YOU ARGUE THIS SUPPORTS AFFORDABLE HOUSING? [51:08] **Simon Cohen:** IN A LETTER TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD COUNCIL, THEY WROTE WE SEE IT FOLLOWING DESIGN PRECEDENT IN SHERIDAN HILLS. THE ORIGINAL NAME OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS COTTAGE CITY. MY HOUSE WAS BUILT IN 1804, THE PREFINISHED ALUMINUM IS FAR FROM FOLLOWING HISTORIC DESIGN PRECEDENT. IS THIS THE CASE OF A DEVELOPER SAYING ANYTHING TO A NEIGHBORHOOD TO GET APPROVAL? [51:25] **Simon Cohen:** ALSO THEY STATED THEY'RE COMMITTED TO OPEN, TRANSPARENT COMMUNICATION THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS. I LIVE 500 FEET FROM THE SITE AND THE FIRST I HEARD OF THIS WAS LAST WEEK FROM A NEIGHBOR. JLS DID NOT HAVE THE COURTESY TO SEND ME A MAILER OR STOP BY TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES. THIS IS AN ESTABLISHED PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR FOR JLS. THEY ALSO PURCHASED THE LOT NEXT DOOR TO ME AND PLAN TO DEMOLISH IT AND BUILD THREE MORE UNITS. THEY HAVE YET TO KNOCK ON MY DOOR OR INTRODUCE THEMSELVES. I AGAIN FOUND OUT FROM A NEIGHBOR. IF JLS CARED ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY, THEY WOULD HAVE INFORMED US AND STARTED A MEANINGFUL DIALOGUE. [52:00] **Simon Cohen:** I URGE YOU NOT TO APPROVE THIS DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE YOU'RE SETTING A PRECEDENT THAT ANY DEVELOPER CAN BULLDOZE OUR UNDERPERFORMING NEIGHBORHOOD SIMPLY SO THEY CAN MAKE A PROFIT. THANK YOU. **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. NEXT WE HAVE TIM GUSTIN FOLLOWED BY KATE SCHUYLER. [52:20] **Tim Gustin:** THANK YOU, COMMISSION. MY NAME IS TIM GUSTIN. MY WIFE KATE AND I LIVE AT 4037 SHERIDAN AVENUE SOUTH ALONG WITH MY SON AND DAUGHTER WHO ATTEND MINNEAPOLIS PUBLIC SCHOOL. I'LL ADMIT I'M A REAL ESTATE LAWYER. I HAVE A FOCUS ON MULTIFAMILY HOUSING. I MAKE a LIVING IN THIS SPACE AND I'M NOT AGAINST DENSITY. HOWEVER, I CANNOT SUPPORT THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT IN ITS CURRENT FORM. IT PRESENTS ALARMING SAFETY RISKS TO OUR COMMUNITY. WE'RE HERE TODAY BECAUSE THE PROPOSAL IS ALONG A TRANSPORTATION CORRIDOR. [52:55] **Tim Gustin:** THE PROJECT HOWEVER DOES NOT PROMOTE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. INSTEAD IT PROPOSES 26 UNDERGROUND PARKING SPOTS. 26 ON TWO RESIDENTIAL LOTS. THE ONLY ACCESS TO THESE 26 SPACES IS SHERIDAN AVENUE SOUTH. THERE HAVE BEEN NO TRAFFIC STUDIES, NO SAFETY STUDIES, AND LET'S BE FRANK HERE, WE DON'T NEED ANY. THE IDEA OF ADDING 26 PARKING SPACES TO TWO RESIDENTIAL LOTS IS CRAZY. COULD YOU IMAGINE IF I HAD 13 CARS IN MY DRIVEWAY AND MY NEIGHBOR HAD 13 IN THEIRS? [53:29] **Tim Gustin:** ANYONE WHO LIVES ON SHERIDAN KNOWS HOW DIFFICULT IT IS ALREADY GETTING IN AND OUT OF YOUR DRIVEWAY. IT'S A BUSY STREET. FAST MOVING TRAFFIC, NO CROSSWALKS, NO SPEED BUMPS, NO TRAFFIC SIGNALS. PARKING IS ALLOWED ONLY ON ONE SIDE SO CARS MOVE SWIFTLY. BUSES ARE ON THE FLY. SHERIDAN IS USED BY MANY. MOTORISTS, RUNNERS, BIKERS, WALKERS, YOUNG CHILDREN GOING TO THE NEARBY DAYCARE, ELDERLY GOING TO THE NEARBY CHURCH. AND RECENTLY CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE TO SHERIDAN TO ALLOW FOR INCREASED AND EVEN FASTER BUS TRANSIT. [54:06] **Tim Gustin:** NOW LET'S THROW ANOTHER 26 VEHICLES INTO THE MIX. ALL GOING IN AND OUT OF THAT SAME DRIVEWAY, THAT BELOW GRADE DRIVEWAY. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE CURRENT PROPOSAL TO SAFELY FUNCTION. OF THE 26 PARKING SPACES IT WAS POINTED OUT EARLIER, 16 ARE PART OF A TANDEM. THE PUZZLE PIECES ARE BEING FORCED. IT DOESN'T WORK. THE SCALE OF THE PROJECT IS SIMPLY TOO BIG FOR TWO RESIDENTIAL LOTS. WE CANNOT RISK EVERYONE'S SAFETY. I RESPECTFULLY ASK THAT YOU DENY THIS PROPOSAL. THANK YOU. [54:41] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. NEXT WE HAVE KATE SCHUYLER FOLLOWED BY LITA ELAMAD. [54:58] **Kate Schuyler:** MY NAME IS KATE SCHUYLER. I LIVE AT 4027 SHERIDAN AVENUE SOUTH WITH MY HUSBAND TIM AND HIS TWO TEENAGE CHILDREN. I'D LIKE TO ECHO MY HUSBAND'S CONCERN AROUND THE GENERAL SAFETY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE SPEED OF THE CARS DOWN SHERIDAN ON AN ALREADY BUSY PEDESTRIAN BICYCLE CAR INTERSECTION THAT CARRIES NO SIDEWALK DESPITE ITS PROXIMITY TO DAYCARES. [55:18] **Kate Schuyler:** BEYOND MY CONCERNS IS THE PRECEDENT THIS WOULD SET FOR OUR ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE SIZE AND SCALE OF THIS BUILDING ARE INCONGRUENT WITH THE EXISTING STRUCTURES. THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT EXISTS FOR A REASON. I THINK IT'S A TIME TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT THIS PROJECT FITS WITHIN ITS ALLEGED SCOPE AND WILL NOT DIMINISH THE RICH LANDSCAPE THIS NEIGHBORHOOD HOLDS. [55:40] **Kate Schuyler:** I HOPE THE CITY HAS FINISHED THEIR DUE DILIGENCE WITH A HIGH LEVEL OF SCRUTINY. I HOPE THEY NOTICED THE PHOTOS PRESENTED BY JLS AS EVIDENCE THAT THIS DOES NOT DISRUPT THE LANDSCAPE WERE TAKEN IN FULL FOLIAGE MONTHS WHICH WE HAVE TWO MONTHS OF THROUGHOUT THE YEAR. THESE PHOTOS OF THE AREA ARE NOT OF THEIR INTENDED DEVELOPMENT AREA. THEY WERE TAKEN ROUGHLY A HALF MILE SOUTH OF THE PROPOSED SITE. UNLESS THERE IS FURTHER EVIDENCE PROVIDED THAT I AM NOT PRIVY TO, THESE PHOTOS ARE INACCURATE AND MISLEADING. [56:21] **Kate Schuyler:** PRECEDENCE IS CRITICAL. AND WHILE I AM VERY PRO DENSITY, I BELIEVE IN THOUGHTFUL AND PRACTICAL DEVELOPMENTS THAT ENHANCE AND BRING DIVERSITY TO NEIGHBORHOODS. I BELIEVE THIS PROJECT DOES NEITHER. AT A MINIMUM, THE CITY SHOULD POSTPONE APPROVAL FOR THIS PRECEDENT SETTING PROJECT UNTIL WE CAN BE SURE THAT IT DOES NOT COMPROMISE THE INTEGRITY AND SAFETY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS A WHOLE. THANK YOU. [56:42] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. LITA AND THEN NEXT WILL BE KITTY CHRISTIANSON. [57:01] **Lita Elamad:** THANK YOU. LITA ELAMAD. I ACTUALLY DO NOT LIVE NEAR THE SHERIDAN AREA. I LIVE FURTHER AWAY BUT AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE PRECEDENT THAT THIS PROJECT WOULD SET. I DO HAVE A POINT OF CLARIFICATION THAT I WANT TO ASK THOUGH. AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS DISCUSSION, THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT IS OR IS NOT WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THIS COMMISSION. WHAT I HEARD STAFF SAY WAS THAT THERE WAS A PIECE THAT BROUGHT THIS FORWARD FOR DISCUSSION, BUT THAT THE ENTIRE SITE PLAN REVIEW WAS STILL WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE COMMISSION. [57:24] **Lita Elamad:** SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CLEAR THAT THE ENTIRE SITE PLAN REVIEW IS WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THIS COMMISSION EVEN IF IT COULD BE ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED OR NOT. AM I INCORRECT IN THAT ASSESSMENT? [57:42] **President Meyer:** WE DON'T GET INTO BACK AND FORTH. WE DON'T DO QUESTIONS, BUT WE'LL CLARIFY THAT AFTER THE HEARING IS OVER. **Lita Elamad:** OKAY. I JUST WANT TO NOTE THAT THIS PROJECT IS NOT IN KEEPING WITH THE SIZE AND SCALE OF THE CHARACTER OF THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD AS THE FOLKS BEFORE ME HAVE NOTED. [58:03] **Lita Elamad:** I'M NOT WHOLLY OPPOSED TO DEVELOPMENTS OF THIS NATURE, I JUST BELIEVE THERE'S AN APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR THEM. I HAPPEN TO LIVE NEAR THE JUNCTURE OF 44th AND FRANCE IN A SINGLE HOME ACROSS FROM A BUILDING ZONED FOR FOUR STORY BUILDINGS. WHILE I DON'T RELISH THE THOUGHT OF A PROJECT TAKING PLACE CLOSE TO MY HOME, I UNDERSTAND THE ZONING FOR IT. IT'S IN CONNECTION WITH A BUSINESS DISTRICT ALLOWING FOR THE INCREASE IN TRAFFIC YOU HEAR OTHERS EXPRESSING CONCERN ABOUT. [58:25] **Lita Elamad:** THE PROPOSED LOCATION ON SHERIDAN HAS NEITHER OF THESE ATTRIBUTES AND THEREFORE I BELIEVE IT IS ZONED TO NOT ALLOW FOR SUCH A PROJECT. MOST IMPORTANTLY HOWEVER, AS OUTLINED IN THE LETTER FROM MR. DEVINKY, THIS PROPOSAL DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CITY'S ZONING ORDINANCE AND THEREFORE DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THE CITY'S LAWS. WHILE I THINK WE'VE GOTTEN FAIRLY USED TO OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THROWING OUR LAWS TO THE WIND, I REALLY HOPE THAT MINNEAPOLIS DOESN'T FOLLOW SUIT AND THEREFORE I ASK THAT YOU DO NOT APPROVE THIS OR AT THE VERY LEAST TABLE THIS DISCUSSION. THANK YOU. [59:07] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. KITTY CHRISTIANSON AND THEN NEXT MATT LOCKHART. [59:25] **Kitty Christianson:** HI. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE MY PERSPECTIVE. MY NAME IS KITTY CHRISTIANSON. I LIVE AT 4121 LINDEN HILLS BOULEVARD. AND I'VE LIVED IN THAT HOME FOR 50 YEARS, RAISED MY CHILDREN THERE. I ALSO OWN THE FIVE-PLEX NEXT DOOR TO ME AND ANOTHER FIVE-PLEX ON QUEENS AVENUE SOUTH. [59:47] **Kitty Christianson:** I AM SPEAKING IN OPPOSITION TO THE COMPLIANCE CONDITIONAL USE OR WHATEVER THE TERMINOLOGY IS. SO I'M NOT AGAINST MULTIFAMILY HOUSING. BUT I DO THINK THE GOAL OF 2040 WAS TO INCREASE AFFORDABLE HOUSING. AND THIS PROJECT CERTAINLY DOES NOT DO THAT. I'VE BEEN AGING IN MY HOME. I'VE BEEN LOOKING AT HOMES IN LINDEN HILLS SO THAT I CAN CONTINUE TO LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY. AND EVERY NEW DEVELOPMENT IS IN EXCESS OF $1 MILLION, MORE LIKE 1.5. [1:00:25] **Kitty Christianson:** SO I COULDN'T EVEN SELL MY HOUSE AND MOVE INTO THIS BUILDING. I RAISED MY CHILDREN HERE IN THE COMMUNITY AND I HAVE CONCERNS THAT WHAT WILL BE DISPLACED ARE FAMILY HOMES. AND THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR OUR PUBLIC SCHOOL ENROLLMENT. I CHERISH THE HISTORICAL ARCHITECTURE OF THE COMMUNITY. I CHERISH LAKE HARRIET AND THE PURITY OF THE WATER. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS GROUND THAT WILL BE INCREASED DUE TO THIS DEVELOPMENT. [1:01:05] **Kitty Christianson:** I THINK THAT SHERIDAN IS UNIQUE IN THAT IT'S NOT AS BUSY OF A CORRIDOR AS LIKE LAKE STREET OR HENNEPIN BECAUSE OF ITS COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT. THIS PROJECT IS PLOPPED RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF RESIDENTIAL HOUSING. IT'S NOT ON A CORNER. AND IT'S NOT NEAR THE COMMERCIAL ZONE. [1:01:22] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. MATT LOCKHART AND THEN NEXT WILL BE LETI LINDBERG. [1:01:38] **Matt Lockhart:** I'M MATT LOCKHART. I LIVE AT 4017 SHERIDAN. THANK YOU FOR THE IMPORTANT WORK THAT YOU DO. I'M ALL FOR THOUGHTFUL DEVELOPMENT IN THE CITY. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT FITS IN THE MEANS OF THOUGHTFUL DEVELOPMENT FOR THE CITY. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT TO GRANT THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, YOU NEED TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS NOT HARM OR THAT THE PROJECT IS NOT INJURIOUS TO THE IMMEDIATE COMMUNITY. WE'VE HEARD ABOUT THE POTENTIAL ISSUES DUE TO THE SIZE OF THE STRUCTURE AND THE SHADOWS CAUSED. [1:02:16] **Matt Lockhart:** I HAVE NOT HEARD NOR DO I UNDERSTAND IF THERE'S BEEN ANY STUDIES OF SUCH A LARGE IMPERVIOUS STRUCTURE AND THE POTENTIAL IMPACT TO THE ENVIRONMENT IN THE COMMUNITY. NOT JUST THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE LAKE BUT THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE COMMUNITY IN GENERAL. WILL IT CAUSE ADDITIONAL FLOODING? I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING WITH RESPECT TO THE FACT THAT PARKING IS ALREADY AN ISSUE ON SHERIDAN AVENUE AT THAT POINT. NOW, THE UNDERGROUND PARKING FOR RESIDENTS CERTAINLY IS NOT ALL OF THE PARKING THAT WILL BE CAUSED BY SUCH A LARGE MULTI-UNIT STRUCTURE. [1:02:59] **Matt Lockhart:** AND SO PARKING NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED OBVIOUSLY. WE HEARD FROM MY NEIGHBOR ABOUT THE TRAFFIC CONCERNS WHICH ARE REAL AND WILL ONLY BE INCREASED BY THIS PROJECT. NOW, I DON'T KNOW THE LEGALITY OF THE SHORELAND OVERLAY SITUATION, AND THE FACT THAT IT CUTS THROUGH THE BUILDING. CAN YOU CUT THE BUILDING IN HALF OR DOESN'T THE ENTIRETY OF THE STRUCTURE NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AS PART OF THE SHORELAND OVERLAY SITUATION? SO THERE'S A NUMBER OF REASONS. NOW DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE STAFF COMMENTS THAT THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD—IT IS OBVIOUSLY FALSE. IT IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. FOR ALL OF THESE REASONS, I WOULD ASK THAT YOU DENY THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT OR THE VERY LEAST TABLE IT UNTIL REAL CONCERNS ARE ADDRESSED. THANK YOU. [1:04:00] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. NEXT WE HAVE LETI LINDBERG AND MOLLY FALK. [1:04:16] **Laurel Braun:** LETI DECIDED NOT TO SPEAK BUT I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE HER TIME, I WAS SITTING NEXT TO HER. I'M LAUREL BRAUN. I LIVE AT -- NOT ON SHERIDAN. I HAVE MANY CONCERNS, BUT MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS ABOUT SAFETY IN THE AREA. I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING SPOKEN ABOUT THAT SO I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS A PURVIEW FOR YOUR COMMITTEE. BUT AS OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SAID THIS IS A CORRIDOR FOR PEOPLE TO WALK, BIKE, AND OTHERWISE TRAVEL TO LAKE HARRIET FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND OTHER AREAS. AND THE CONGESTION OF ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC, THE SINGLE IN AND OUT OF THE PARKING RAMP ET CETERA IS A BIG CONCERN. [1:04:55] **Laurel Braun:** THERE'S A LOT OF KIDS THAT ARE IN THAT AREA. A LOT OF BIKING AND PEDESTRIANS AND CAR TRAFFIC IS ALREADY KIND OF A JUMBLE AND ESPECIALLY AT THAT SPOT. SO YOU DRIVE UP 42nd, YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE A LEFT OR A RIGHT, THERE'S TRAFFIC GOING ALL THE TIME. THERE'S PEOPLE TRYING TO WALK. THERE'S BIKERS GOING BY. THERE'S OLD PEOPLE MOVING SLOWLY. CHILDREN RUNNING ALL OVER THE PLACE. I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING THAT SAYS THAT THERE WAS ANY CONCERN ABOUT THE CROSSING OF THOSE STREETS, THE GETTING DOWN TO LAKE HARRIET WHICH THAT IS A MAJOR PLACE WHERE PEOPLE GO TO GET DOWN TO LAKE HARRIET FROM ANYWHERE ELSE. [1:05:30] **Laurel Braun:** SO MY MAJOR CONCERN RIGHT NOW IS THE LACK OF ANY INFORMATION REGARDING THE SAFETY OF PEOPLE THAT ARE WALKING, BIKING, TRAVELLING IN THAT AREA WITH A DENSELY POPULATED 26 CARS IN TWO LOTS THAT WILL BE ALSO USING THAT SAME 42nd AND SHERIDAN AREA. SO THANK YOU. [1:05:51] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE MOLLY? OKAY GREAT. THEN AFTER THAT WILL BE ANDY. [1:06:06] **Molly Falk:** YES, I'M MOLLY FALK. I'VE LIVED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR 50 SOME YEARS. AND AT THIS POINT I'LL PASS BECAUSE MANY OF MY CONCERNS ARE BEING ADDRESSED. THANK YOU. [1:06:24] **Andy [Last Name Unclear]:** I'M ANDY, I LIVE AT 4530 SHERIDAN. WE'VE LIVED THERE FOR 16 YEARS. I'VE RAISED MY KIDS IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. IF YOU ARE UNFAMILIAR, THERE IS A STOPLIGHT ON 39TH AND SHERIDAN. AND A STOPLIGHT ON 43rd. SO THERE'S A FOUR BLOCK CORRIDOR WITH NO STOPLIGHTS, NO STOP SIGNS. I LIVE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT. [1:06:58] **Andy:** SO CROSSING AT 42nd IS CONSTANT KIDS COMING DOWN. I WAS A STAY AT HOME PARENT, I SPENT MY DAYS WALKING AND BIKING MY KIDS TO SCHOOLS AND PARKS. I KNOW HOW BAD IT COULD BE AND I HAD TO BE SO CAREFUL WITH MY KIDS ON SHERIDAN. THE BUSES ARE GOING FASTER THAN EVER. THE NEW BUS PLAN, WE WATCH THE BUSES GO DOWN THE ROAD AT 40 MILES AN HOUR. WE HAVE PARKING ON CERTAIN DAYS WHEN PEOPLE ON A NICE DAY WHEN PEOPLE COME DOWN TO A BAND SHELL, PARKING IS ALREADY UP TO OUR DRIVEWAYS. [1:07:32] **Andy:** SO YOU HAVE A HARD TIME PULLING OUT, KIDS HAVE A HARD TIME SEEING. ADDING 26 MORE VEHICLES IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. THERE'S BEEN NO PLAN FOR MAYBE A STOP SIGN AT 42nd. THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY WANT THIS BUS ROUTE. SO ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE MAKING IT A LOT MORE DANGEROUS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. ON TOP OF THAT, MY KIDS, WE MOVED INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE OF THE LAKES. THE SHORELAND OVERLAY IS THERE FOR A REASON. WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT THE LAKES. THIS BUILDING IS TAKING A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF SPACE, HARD SPACE, ALL OF THE DRAINS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE GUTTERS FLOW RIGHT INTO THE LAKE. THE POLLUTION THAT WILL COME OFF OF THIS BUILDING IS GOING TO EXACERBATE WHAT'S ALREADY HAPPENING AROUND THE LAKES IN MINNEAPOLIS. THANK YOU. [1:07:50] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. NEXT WE HAVE SADIE STRAUSS. [1:08:32] **Sadie Strauss:** MY NAME IS SADIE STRAUSS, I LIVE TWO HOUSES DOWN FROM THE PROPOSED PROJECT. PRIOR TO MOVING TO LINDEN HILLS I LIVED IN BROOKLYN, NEW YORK AND LONDON. TWO CITIES WHO BALANCE HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS WITH HIGH DENSITY LIVING. I WANT TO LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD WITH MULTIFAMILY AND MIXED USE BUILDINGS. I BELIEVE IN THE IMPORTANCE OF BUILDING MORE HOUSING, BUT I BELIEVE IT NEEDS TO BE DONE CORRECTLY AND CONSIDERATELY. [1:09:04] **Sadie Strauss:** WHEN I LOOK AT THIS PROPOSAL, I HAVE TWO CONCERNS, COMMUNITY SAFETY AND ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT. I HAVE TWO YOUNG KIDS. WE WALK AND BIKE TO GET TO LAKE HARRIET ALONG SHERIDAN AVENUE. DURING THIS WALK, I SEE FIRST HAND EVERYTHING THAT IS ASKED OF THE STREET, THE DAYCARE GOERS, THE CHURCH GOERS, THE PACKAGE AND DELIVERY COMPANIES, THE GUESTS OF NEIGHBORS ALL STRUGGLING TO FIND PARKING ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD WITH TRAFFIC GOING BY. [1:09:31] **Sadie Strauss:** IT WILL BE ADDING TO THE NEED OF GUEST AND DELIVERY AND REPAIR PARKING. THE 26 CARS PULLING OUT UNDERGROUND PARKING WILL HAVE DIFFICULTY SEEING MANY WALKERS WHO USE SHERIDAN TO CONNECT WITH THE 42nd TO WALK TO LAKE HARRIET. CARS WILL BE BUSY TURNING OUT AND MIGHT NOT SEE BIKERS UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE. THERE ARE NO CROSSWALKS IN THE AREA OF SHERIDAN AND DUE TO ITS STAGGERED INTERSECTION AT 42nd, STREET PEDESTRIANS ARE OFTEN CROSSING AT UNPREDICTABLE SPOTS. THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS ALSO HAS A GOAL OF PEDESTRIAN/BIKER SAFETY WITH THEIR VISION 0 PLAN. [1:10:05] **Sadie Strauss:** I URGE THE CITY TO NOT APPROVE THIS PROPOSAL AT THIS TIME UNTIL WE ARE ABLE TO DO A PROPER SAFETY CONSULT OF THE INTERSECTION AND IMPACT THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT WILL HAVE ON THE SAFETY AND WALKABILITY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. MY SECOND CONCERN IS WITH THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT OF THE DEVELOPMENT. TO CREATE THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT, TWO NATURALLY OCCURRING AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS WERE REMOVED AND THE FINISHED DEVELOPMENT WILL BLOCK THE EFFECTIVENESS OF SOLAR PANELS ALREADY INSTALLED. THEY'RE ASKING FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THEIR 50% ENERGY TO BE RENEWABLE, BUT THE PLAN TO USE THIS IS BY USING OFFSETS WHICH HAVE NO PLAN OF BEING RENEWABLE WITHIN A YEAR. INSTEAD THEY SHOULD MATCH THE SUSTAINABLE BUILDING EXPECTATIONS OF MULTIFAMILY UNITS. I AM ASKING THE CITY TO NOT APPROVE THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS FOR HEIGHT UNTIL A MORE SUSTAINABLE BUILDING PLAN IS PUT FORWARD. I HAVE NOTES BECAUSE I THOUGHT I HAD THREE MINUTES. CAN I TURN THIS ANYWHERE TO BE READ? [1:11:02] **President Meyer:** YOU CAN TURN IT INTO THE CLERK AND WE'LL ADD IT TO THE PUBLIC RECORD. **Sadie Strauss:** THANK YOU. **President Meyer:** DO WE HAVE CHRISTA? [1:11:18] **Christa Anders:** MY NAME IS CHRISTA ANDERS. FOR 25 YEARS, MY PARTNER TOM McLEOD AND I HAVE LIVED DIRECTLY BEHIND THE PROPOSED PROJECT. WE HAVE INVESTED IN OUR HOME AND OUR COMMUNITY BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IN MINNEAPOLIS. THIS PROJECT WILL CAUSE DEMONSTRABLE HARM TO SURROUNDING PROPERTIES. THIS BUILDING WOULD LOOM JUST FEET FROM OUR PROPERTY LINE. A MASSIVE WALL DWARFING OUR 1905 HOME. [1:11:35] **Christa Anders:** WE SPECIFICALLY RENOVATED OUR HOME WITH ARCHITECTS ALLOWING WINDOWS THROUGHOUT FOR NATURAL LIGHT AND A BEDROOM DECK OVERLOOKING THE YARD. THIS PROJECT WILL ELIMINATE OUR ASSETS OF OUR BACKYARD. WE LOSE ALL PRIVACY. OUR BEDROOM AND BATHROOM DIRECTLY FACE THIS PROPOSED WALL. WE'LL LOSE THE NATURAL LIGHT WE DESIGNED OUR HOME TO CAPTURE. OUR PROPERTY VALUE WILL PLUMMET. THIS IS TEXTBOOK INJURY TO ADJACENT PROPERTY. ADEQUATE PROTECTION HAS NOT BEEN PROVIDED. [1:12:11] **Christa Anders:** THE ALLEY BETWEEN OUR HOUSE AND THIS PROJECT IS ACTUALLY ELEVATED. WE HAVE A LONG RETAINING WALL WE SUSPECT WILL COLLAPSE FROM THE CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY AND THE WEIGHT OF ALL OF THIS. WE ALREADY EXPERIENCE WATER INFILTRATION FROM THE LOT INTO OUR BUILDING IN THE BACK. SO WHEN THESE LOTS ARE COVERED WITH IMPERVIOUS SURFACE INSTEAD OF GRASS, WHERE WILL THAT WATER GO? IT WILL GO INTO OUR BUILDING. NO STRUCTURAL ASSESSMENT OR DRAINAGE PLAN HAS BEEN PROVIDED. THIS VIOLATES BASIC DUE DILIGENCE REQUIREMENTS. [1:13:01] **Christa Anders:** THIRD, THIS PROCESS IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED. I DON'T KNOW WHAT MR. SIEGEL IS TALKING ABOUT WHEN HE SAID HE CAREFULLY LISTENED TO THE NEIGHBORS, THERE'S BEEN ONE MEETING ON A FRIDAY NIGHT. FOURTH, WE QUESTIONED THE LEGAL COMPLIANCE, THIS NEEDS RESOLUTION BEFORE APPROVAL. I ANTICIPATE WE'LL BE DISMISSED AS NIMBYS. WE'RE NOT OPPOSING DENSITY. WE'VE HAD SEVEN UNITS OF HOUSING IN OUR BACKYARD. WE'RE OPPOSING EXCESSIVE DENSITY THAT VIOLATES THE CITY'S STANDARDS. WE'RE ASKING YOU TO SIMPLY ENFORCE YOUR OWN RULES. REQUIRE A DRAINAGE PLAN, ADEQUATE NEIGHBORHOOD ENGAGEMENT AND SETBACKS. THANK YOU. [1:13:35] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. WE HAVE ANTHONY ROSS FOLLOWED BY JEFF STEINLY. ALL RIGHT, NOT SEEING ANTHONY. WELCOME. INTRODUCE YOURSELF. YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES. [1:13:50] **Anthony Ross:** THANK YOU. I'M ANTHONY ROSS. I'M A RESIDENT OF 4111 LINDEN HILLS BOULEVARD DIRECTLY EAST OF THE PROJECT. I'VE LIVED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR 38 YEARS. I URGE YOU TO NOT LET THIS PROJECT GO FORWARD. I DON'T WANT TO REPEAT. I'VE HEARD A LOT OF BRILLIANT STATEMENTS, I AGREE WITH ALMOST ALL OF THEM, ENVIRONMENTALLY, SAFETY, DUE DILIGENCE. PRECEDENT OF FOUR-STORY BUILDING GOING IN OUR BEAUTIFUL NEIGHBORHOOD. [1:14:25] **Anthony Ross:** I SEE THIS PROJECT, IT WILL BE SEEN IF IT'S BUILT AS A BEHEMOTH IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. A BEHEMOTH THAT DWARFS THESE BEAUTIFUL HISTORIC HOMES THAT SURROUND IT. SO I THINK THE UNIQUE CHARACTER OF THIS PART OF LINDEN HILLS ESPECIALLY WILL BE SEVERELY DEGRADED IF THIS GOES FORWARD. SO PLEASE DO NOT APPROVE THIS PROJECT. THANK YOU. [1:14:47] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE JEFF STEINLY AND THEN TODD WACHIK. [1:15:04] **Jeff Steinly:** HELLO, COMMISSIONERS. NICE TO SEE SO MANY NEIGHBORS HERE. MY NAME IS JEFF STEINLY AND I LIVE WITH MY WIFE, OUR SIX KIDS, TWO DOGS, AND A CAT AT 4106 LINDEN HILLS BOULEVARD WHICH IS DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO THIS SITE. LIKE A LOT OF MY NEIGHBORS WE SUPPORT SMART CONTEXT SENSITIVE DEVELOPMENT INCLUDING DEVELOPMENT THAT IS DIRECTLY IN OUR BACKYARD AND THIS ONE IS DIRECTLY IN OUR BACKYARD. [1:15:26] **Jeff Steinly:** THIS PROPOSAL IS NOT SMART CONTEXT SENSITIVE DEVELOPMENT. IT IS OVERSIZED FOR THE SITE. AT ODDS WITH THE SHORELAND DIRECTIVES. YOUR APPROVAL WOULD CREATE A HARMFUL PRECEDENT WELL BEYOND THIS BLOCK. I RESPECTFULLY ASK THAT YOU DENY THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS OR AT A MINIMUM CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION FOR FURTHER STUDY AND SOME GENUINE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT. AT ITS CORE THE PROJECT'S SCALE IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. [1:15:59] **Jeff Steinly:** THE PROPOSED BUILDING MASS RISES TO AN EFFECTIVE HEIGHT OF 52 FEET. IT PRESENTS A THREE-STORY WALL ON OUR PROPERTY LINE. AND A FOURTH STORY ABOVE THAT. THE MASSING WILL BLOCK AFTERNOON WESTERN LIGHT TO OUR HOME AND ERASE ANY MEANINGFUL GREEN BUFFER THAT EXISTS TODAY. ON OUR SIDE OF THE PLAN IT SHOWS ONLY A DRAINAGE SWALE, THERE'S NO TREES, NO FENCING. THERE'S NO PLANTINGS. THE DEVELOPER SUGGESTS THE BUILDING WILL NOT BE VISIBLE FROM THE LAKE AND THE STAFF RELIED ON THE PHOTO STUDY THAT THEY PRESENTED. I DON'T BELIEVE THIS IS TRUE. [1:16:31] **Jeff Steinly:** IF YOU STAND ON THE RIDGE LINE OF MY HOUSE, YOU CAN SEE THE LAKE. THIS BUILDING WILL BE MUCH TALLER THAN MINE, I'D ASK THE COMMISSION TO REVIEW THAT AND ACTUALLY GET SOME REAL FACTS ABOUT WHETHER THEY'LL BE ABLE TO SEE THE LAKE FROM THEIR BUILDING. THE PURPOSE CANNOT BE RECONCILED WITH THE CLAIMS OF NON-VISIBILITY AND IT ALSO ISN'T CONSISTENT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE SHORELAND OVERLAY. LIKE OTHERS I AGREE THAT THIS WOULD SET A PRECEDENT THAT WILL REVERBERATE CITY WIDE. AND I'VE GOT LITTLE CONFIDENCE THAT THIS DEVELOPER, BASED ON HOW THEY'VE BEEN AS A NEIGHBOR SO FAR, THAT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO SAFELY EXECUTE THIS PLAN. THANK YOU. [1:17:03] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. NEXT WE HAVE TODD WACHIK FOLLOWED BY LAURIE BUSHBOMB. [1:17:25] **Todd Wachik:** GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS TODD WACHIK. I'VE LIVED ON LINDEN HILLS BOULEVARD WITH MY BACKYARD DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO THE DEVELOPMENT SITE. I AM HERE TO STRONGLY OPPOSE THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND HEIGHT VARIANCES FOR THIS PROJECT. LINDEN HILLS IS A COMMUNITY DEFINED BY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, SMALL MULTI-UNIT HOMES AND THIS DEVELOPMENT IS PLANNING TO INSERT FOUR STORY 53 FOOT LUXURY CONDOS INTO THE AREA. [1:17:58] **Todd Wachik:** THIS IS NOT A COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR. IT IS NOT BUFFERED BY AN ALLEY AND IT IS SURROUNDED BY FAMILY HOMES. THE DEVELOPER ARGUES THAT THIS PROJECT ALIGNS WITH THE 2040 PLAN, BUT DENSITY MUST RESPECT THE CONTEXT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. HIGH DENSITY PROJECTS BELONG AT COMMERCIAL NODES SUCH AS 43rd AND SHERIDAN OR 50TH AND FRANCE. NOT CRAMMED BETWEEN BACKYARDS WHERE OUR CHILDREN PLAY. [1:18:17] **Todd Wachik:** OUR FAMILY RECENTLY COMPLETED A COSTLY LANDSCAPING RENOVATION WHILE FOLLOWING MINNEAPOLIS ZONING LAWS. THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT DRASTICALLY INFRINGES ON OUR USE AND ENJOYMENT OF OUR PROPERTY AND WILL LIKELY COST US THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO RENOVATE PORTIONS OF THAT. IT WILL ELIMINATE PRIVACY, EXPOSING OUR FAMILY TO THE UNITS OF THIS BUILDING AND REDUCE OUR PROPERTY VALUE. THIS IS NOT ABOUT OPPOSING ALL DEVELOPMENT. IT IS ABOUT REJECTING A PROJECT THAT IS WILDLY OUT OF SCALE FOR THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. [1:18:53] **Todd Wachik:** THE DEVELOPER'S APPROACH REFLECTS A COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR OUR COMMUNITY. THERE HAVE BEEN NO COMMUNITY MEETINGS PRIOR TO FILING APPLICATIONS, MINIMAL NOTICE TO NEIGHBORS WITH MANY RESIDENTS WITHIN 350 FEET, INCLUDING MYSELF, NEVER RECEIVING ANY NOTIFICATION OR COMMUNICATION. NO MEANINGFUL ENGAGEMENT TO ADDRESS OUR CONCERNS OR MODIFY PLANS BASED ON COMMUNITY FEEDBACK. MANY OF OUR NEIGHBORS HAVE HAD TO FILE PUBLIC RECORDS REQUESTS JUST TO OBTAIN FULL APPLICATION DETAILS. SO THIS IS CLEARLY A DEVELOPER EXPLOITING OUR NEIGHBORHOOD FOR PROFIT. [1:19:33] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. NEXT WE HAVE LAURIE BUSHBOMB FOLLOWED BY MICHAEL ALTMAN. [1:19:50] **Laurie Bushbomb:** GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS LAURIE BUSHBOMB. I LIVE AT 4249 LINDEN HILLS BOULEVARD ABOUT A BLOCK AND A HALF FROM THIS DEVELOPMENT. MY NEIGHBORS HAVE ALREADY SPOKEN ELOQUENTLY TO ALL OF MY CONCERNS. I WILL SAY I AM DEFINITELY OPPOSED TO THIS CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT DUE TO ALL OF THE REASONS MY NEIGHBORS STATED. IT'S OUT OF SCALE. AND I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT GOAL THREE WHICH WAS THE AFFORDABLE AND ACCESSIBLE HOUSING WHEN IN FACT THERE'S NOTHING AFFORDABLE ABOUT THESE 13 UNITS. [1:20:27] **Laurie Bushbomb:** LINDEN HILLS IS A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IS QUICKLY BECOMING LESS AND LESS AFFORDABLE TO FAMILIES AND SENIORS EVERY YEAR. WE'VE LIVED THERE FOR 25 YEARS AND WE'RE NOT SURE THAT WE CAN STAY BECAUSE OF THE HOUSING, BECAUSE OF THE PROPERTY TAXES. SO I'M NOT INTERESTED IN A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR NO OTHER PURPOSE THAN TO MAKE THE DEVELOPER MORE MONEY. I THINK THAT PRETTY MUCH COVERS EVERYTHING. MY NEIGHBORS HAVE SAID IT. I TOO JUST WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT I BELIEVE IT WAS JOSH SPOKE TO THE YEARS OF CAREFUL PLANNING OF THIS -- IF THAT WAS THE CASE, HOW COME I DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT IT AND MY NEIGHBORS DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT IT UNTIL LAST WEEK? THERE HAS BEEN NO COMMUNICATION OR ENGAGEMENT ON THIS PROJECT AND THAT IS DEEPLY DISTRESSING TO ME. I WOULD ASK YOU TO DENY THIS. THANK YOU. [1:20:44] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. NEXT WE HAVE MICHAEL ALTMAN FOLLOWED BY STEVE HIGGINS WHITESIDE. [1:21:24] **Michael Altman:** HI, MICHAEL ALTMAN, 4249 LINDEN HILLS BOULEVARD. I WANT TO REMIND US THIS IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT GOING FROM TWO AND A HALF TO THREE STORIES WHICH ESSENTIALLY MEANS WE'RE ALSO CHANGING THE ROOF LINE. AND SO I DON'T KNOW IF THE SHADOW STUDIES—AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO CHECK WITH THE SHADOW STUDIES OF POSSIBLE THINGS THAT WERE WITHIN WHAT COULD BE BUILT WITHOUT COMING BEFORE YOU—WERE DOING A RECTANGULAR BOX WHICH OF COURSE ONE WOULDN'T DO. ONE COULD MAKE A LITTLE LINE UP AT THE EDGE. BUT REALISTICALLY A HALF STORY IS ALMOST ALWAYS GOING TO BE PEAKED TOWARDS THE MIDDLE AND WILL PROVIDE MUCH LESS VISIBILITY AND CERTAINLY LESS HOUSING. [1:22:26] **Michael Altman:** AND SO THAT WE CAN CERTAINLY PROVIDE ADDITIONAL DENSITY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BUT NOT AS MUCH AS WHEN YOU GO UP TO THREE STORIES AND FILL OUT THAT THIRD FLOOR. AND SO I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO HAVE DENSITY, BUT I DON'T THINK THIS ACCOMPLISHES IT. I THINK THIS PUTS A LOT OF CARS BY HAVING 13 UNITS WITH 26 CAR SLOTS. AND I JUST DO NOT THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE GOING FORWARD WITH THIS PERMIT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [1:22:46] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. STEVE HIGGINS WHITESIDE FOLLOWED BY TOM DEVINKY. [1:23:02] **Steve Higgins Whiteside:** HELLO. WE, STEVE AND CATHERINE HIGGINS WHITESIDE, LIVE ADJACENT TO THE PROPOSED BUILDING SITE. THANK YOU TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR YOUR TIME AND EXPERTISE AND TO OUR NEIGHBORS, MANY OF WHOM ARE HERE TONIGHT FOR BANDING TOGETHER TO ADVOCATE FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. THE PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION HAS BEEN JUSTIFIED UNDER THE ZONING CHANGES IMPLEMENTED WITHIN THE 2040 PLAN TO INCREASE DENSITY. THIS PLAN PROVIDES A COMPREHENSIVE VISION TO GUIDE THE CITY'S DECISION MAKING SO THAT THE FUTURE GROWTH OF OUR CITY BENEFITS EVERYONE. IT CONSISTS OF 100 POLICIES EACH WITH MULTIPLE ACTION ITEMS TO ACHIEVE 14 BROAD GOALS. I HAVE SUBMITTED IN WRITING A LIST OF POLICIES THAT THE CURRENT LIST OF PROPOSALS VIOLATES. [1:23:37] **Steve Higgins Whiteside:** SPECIFIC TO OUR PROPERTY DIRECTLY NORTH OF THE BUILDING WE REQUEST THAT THE PLAN NOT BE APPROVED AS LONG AS IT DIMINISHES THE OUTPUT OF OUR SOLAR PANELS. THE 2040 PLAN INCLUDES ENCOURAGE THE USE AND GENERATION OF RENEWABLE ENERGY IN THE CITY. ACHIEVE 80% REDUCTION OF GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS AND CLEAN ENVIRONMENT. ENCOURAGE SOLAR FRIENDLY DESIGNS AND PROVISIONS THAT PROTECT SOLAR ACCESS TO COMMERCIAL RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS. [1:24:07] **Steve Higgins Whiteside:** THIS IS IMPERATIVE TO DECREASE OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOSSIL FUELS AS IS REITERATED IN THE MINNEAPOLIS CLIMATE PLAN AS WELL AS THE STATE OF MINNESOTA. UNFORTUNATELY, WE AS A COMMUNITY ARE FALLING SHORT OF THE GOAL SET FOR RESIDENTIAL SOLAR AND WE CANNOT AFFORD TO DETRACT FROM THIS EFFORT. IF THIS PLAN IS APPROVED IT WILL DISCOURAGE FUTURE INVESTMENT SENDING A CLEAR MESSAGE: SOLAR PANELS CAN BE BLOCKED WITHOUT RECOURSE. WE ARE HERE TO SET A PRECEDENT THAT THE CITY'S GOALS TO PROTECT OUR CHILDREN BY TRANSITIONING TO RENEWABLE ENERGY ARE NOT GREEN WASHING BUT ENFORCEABLE COMMITMENTS. I'D MENTION THE 2040 PLAN CONCLUDES WITH POLICY NUMBER 100 TO ADVOCATE FOR COMMUNITY-BASED NEIGHBORHOOD ENGAGEMENT. WELL WE ARE ENGAGING, WE ARE SPEAKING AND WE ARE CLEARLY IN OPPOSITION TO THIS PLAN. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. [1:25:00] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. TOM DEVINKY FOLLOWED BY BRIAN HUGHES. [1:25:18] **Tom DeVink:** GOOD EVENING, MR. PRESIDENT, COMMISSIONERS, COMMISSION STAFF, SENIOR PLANNER SILAS. MY NAME IS TOM DEVINK, I REPRESENT THE LINDEN HILLS NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. THIS PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT COMES TO US THIS EVENING WITH A FAIR AMOUNT OF IRONY, RIGHT? IT'S ON A TRANSIT CORRIDOR, CORRIDOR THREE. WE SEE RAPID BUS TRANSIT COMING ONTO THIS CORRIDOR, BUT IT HAS 26 UNDERGROUND PARKING SPOTS. IT TAKES ADVANTAGE OF AN ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY CLIMATE RESILIENCY PREMIUM TO ADD A STORY, BUT IT MATERIALLY OBSTRUCTS AN EXISTING SOLAR ENERGY STRUCTURE. AND SO IT KIND OF SCREAMS OUT THIS NEEDS MORE TIME. [1:25:51] **Tom DeVink:** AND WHEN WE LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE, WHAT ARE WE HEARING TONIGHT? IT DOESN'T FIT, RIGHT? IT DOESN'T FIT. AND WE HEAR THE NEIGHBORS SAYING THE MASSING, THE HUMAN SCALE, THE DRAINAGE, THE SAFETY—THESE ARE EXACTLY THE THINGS THAT THE THREE TIERS OF PROTECTIONS THAT ARE SPECIFIC TO A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IN THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT, WHICH IS A SPECIAL THING. REMEMBER, IF THIS WAS A ONE FAMILY OR TWO FAMILY HOUSE, WE'D BE TALKING ABOUT A VARIANCE HERE RIGHT? AND THIS WOULD BE REALLY NO BASIS FOR WHAT THIS APPLICANT IS SEEKING UNDER THE LAW. BUT BECAUSE OF THIS DISTINCTION IN THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT, WE'RE DEALING WITH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND WE HAVE THESE SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS THAT NEED MORE TIME, MORE CONSIDERATION. [1:26:39] **Tom DeVink:** AND IT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WOULDN'T BE THE CASE HERE. THEY'RE TAKING THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE FROM 14,500 FEET TO 4,800 FEET ON A LOT THAT'S ONLY 19,000 FEET TOTAL. AND THE DRAINAGE PLAN FOR THE NORTH BOUNDARY IS THE CONTRACTOR WILL FIGURE IT OUT WITH THE NEIGHBOR DURING THE BUILD. I WANT TO BE OPTIMISTIC. WE ALWAYS WANT TO BE OPTIMISTIC IN LIFE. BUT DO WE REALLY THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN A WAY THAT IS THOUGHTFUL AND APPROPRIATE UNDER THE MANY PROTECTIONS UNDER THE CODE HERE? I THINK THIS CALLS OUT FOR THIS COMMISSION TONIGHT TO STAND BY THE CODE, SEND THIS BACK NOT TO FORMULA, BUT TO TABLE IT FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION OF THESE IMPORTANT ISSUES THAT I WOULD SAY HAVE BEEN SO WELL ARTICULATED TONIGHT BY SO MANY. I'VE OVERSTAYED MY TIME. BUT I THANK YOU. [1:27:31] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. OUR FINAL SPEAKER WILL BE BRIAN HUGHES. [1:27:50] **Brian Hughes:** HI, MY NAME IS BRIAN HUGHES. I LIVE WITH MY FAMILY AT 2515 WEST 40TH STREET WHICH IS ON THE NORTH END OF THE BLOCK WHERE THIS BUILDING IS. I DIDN'T INTEND TO BE THE LAST SPEAKER OR INTEND TO NECESSARILY SPEAK AT ALL. I WANTED TO REITERATE A LOT OF THE CONCERNS MY NEIGHBORS HAVE EXPRESSED ALREADY. BUT I THOUGHT I MIGHT BE ABLE TO ADD A COUPLE OF ADDITIONAL POINTS IN ADDITION TO THE FACT THAT IT'S ENTIRELY OUT OF SCALE AND CHARACTER WITH MY NEIGHBORHOOD, MY BLOCK. [1:28:14] **Brian Hughes:** WITH THE COMMENT ABOUT COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, AS OF THIS AFTERNOON AND I'VE CHECKED MANY TIMES AS I'VE WALKED AROUND MY BLOCK, THE QR CODE THAT'S AT THE PROPERTY WHICH SHOULD BE THE ENTRY POINT FOR INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS PROJECT—AT NO POINT HAS THAT QR CODE GOTTEN TO ANY POINT OF INFORMATION REGARDING WHAT THIS PLAN THAT HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR QUITE SOME TIME APPARENTLY. I ALSO LIKE NEIGHBORS HAVE FOUND OUT VERY RECENTLY ABOUT THE PROJECT. AND THERE'S BEEN A BIG TURN OUT. AND I'M SURE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO STILL DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT. AND I THINK IT'S PRETTY UNANIMOUS HOW THE NEIGHBORHOOD FEELS ABOUT IT. [1:29:00] **Brian Hughes:** AND I REALIZE WE MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT THE APPROVAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND SOME OF THE DISCUSSION POINTS ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSING THAT, BUT I THINK THERE IS A GENERAL CONSENSUS AND I WOULD SAY UNANIMOUS OPINION OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IT JUST DOESN'T FIT. AND SPECIFICALLY TO ANYTHING ADDITIONAL TO WHAT I HAVEN'T HEARD, 26 CARS IN A GARAGE WILL CREATE EXHAUST. ONE OF THE NEIGHBORS IS DEFINITELY GOING TO—AT LEAST ONE OF THE NEIGHBORS IS GOING TO DEFINITELY HAVE THAT EXHAUST IN THEIR YARD. THAT'S IT. THANKS. [1:29:36] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. BEFORE WE CONCLUDE THE PUBLIC HEARING, I'M GOING TO ASK STAFF TO COME UP. LINDSEY, IF YOU CAN COME UP. WE'LL TRY TO GO THROUGH SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT EMERGED. LINDSEY, CAN YOU TELL US AGAIN WHAT IS AND WHAT IS NOT IN OUR PURVIEW TO HELP CLARIFY THINGS FOR ONE OF THE SPEAKERS WHO CAME UP. LET ME TAKE A SHOT AT IT AND SEE IF I HAVE THINGS RIGHT. SO NORMALLY IF IT WASN'T FOR THE SHORELAND OVERLAY, THIS WOULD BE UNDER ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE SEEN IT AT ALL? [1:30:42] **Lindsey Silas:** CORRECT. **President Meyer:** AND MANY ELEMENTS OF THAT ARE BY RIGHT THAT WE DO NOT HAVE THE PURVIEW TO DENY. BUT SINCE THE SITE PLAN REVIEW IS BEFORE US, IF WE WANTED TO DENY ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE TO SOMETHING OR MAKE ADJUSTMENTS TO IT, WE COULD DO THAT? SO THERE'S SOME THINGS WE CAN CHANGE ABOUT THE SITE PLAN REVIEW, BUT THE THINGS THAT ARE BY RIGHT, WE COULD NOT CHANGE. THEN THE MAIN ISSUE THAT WE'RE HERE FOR IS THE 2.5 TO 3 STORY PART FOR THE SHORELAND OVERLAY ORDINANCE, IS THAT CORRECT? [1:31:27] **Lindsey Silas:** CORRECT. SO THE CORRIDOR THREE SETS THE STAGE THAT THIS IS A PLACE THAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR MODERATE DENSITY, BUILDINGS OF 3 TO 4 STORIES. SO SITE PLAN REVIEW IS A PROCESS TO REVIEW PROPOSED DEVELOPMENTS FOR COMPLIANCE WITH THE CITY'S SITE PLAN REVIEW STANDARDS. SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT SITE PLAN REVIEW, WE'RE SAYING IS THERE ANYWHERE WHERE THEY'RE NOT MEETING THOSE STANDARDS AND THAT'S THOSE PROVISIONS WHERE THEY'VE REQUESTED ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE. STAFF HAS ONLY RECOMMENDED GRANTING APPROVAL FOR ONE REQUEST FOR ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE WHICH IS THAT BUILDING PLACEMENT TO ALLOW IT TO BE SET BACK A LITTLE FURTHER FROM SHERIDAN THAN OUR STANDARDS REQUIRE. AND THEN WE'VE RECOMMENDED COMPLYING WITH THE REST. SITE PLAN REVIEW IS ONE OF THOSE REVIEWS WHERE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT LESS DISCRETION BECAUSE IT'S A PROPOSAL THAT'S—IT'S AN APPLICATION THAT'S REQUIRED FOR ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION BUILDING TO CONFIRM THAT IT'S COMPLYING WITH THE STANDARDS OF THE ZONING CODE AND THEN EVALUATING IF THERE ARE ANY ALTERNATIVES REQUESTED. [1:32:32] **President Meyer:** CAN YOU SPEAK TO THE ISSUES THAT WERE BROUGHT UP REGARDING THE RETAINING WALL AND STRUCTURAL ASSESSMENT? IF THEIR RETAINING WALL WERE TO BE DAMAGED, WHAT WOULD BE THE REMEDY FOR THEM? [1:32:49] **Lindsey Silas:** I THINK IT WOULD BE A PRIVATE PROPERTY SITUATION BETWEEN THE NEIGHBOR AND THE DEVELOPER. I WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT THE DEVELOPER WOULD WORK WITH THEM ON THAT AND POSSIBLY KIMBERLY CAN WEIGH IN ON THAT AS WELL. STRUCTURALLY LOOKING AT SURROUNDING FEATURES, ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT ARE NOT ON THE SITE IS NOT COMMON AS PART OF A LAND USE APPLICATION. [1:33:11] **President Meyer:** FOR THE SHORELAND OVERLAY, THE OVERLAY DOESN'T STRICTLY PROHIBIT TALLER BUILDINGS, SOME OF OUR VERY TALLEST BUILDINGS WITHIN THE CITY ARE IN THE OVERLAY, LIKE DOWNTOWN OR THE NORTH SIDE OR LOTS OF OTHER PLACES. MY INTERPRETATION IS THAT IT BASICALLY ADDS AN EXTRA LEVEL OF SCRUTINY TO IT. BUT WE HAVE A LOT OF PRECEDENCE FOR APPROVING A LOT OF BUILDINGS WITHIN THE OVERLAY THAT ARE MUCH TALLER THAN THIS. BUT ONE THING THAT DOES SEEM PARTICULARLY APPROPRIATE TO CONSIDER IS IMPERVIOUS SURFACE. BUT THAT HASN'T COME UP AT ALL—I MEAN PEOPLE HAVE BROUGHT IT UP, BUT AS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE ANY PURVIEW OVER. IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WOULD ENABLE US TO LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS SURFACE? [1:34:08] **Lindsey Silas:** SO THE MAXIMUM IMPERVIOUS SURFACE IN CORRIDOR THREE IS 75% MAXIMUM. AND THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED 74.4%. SO I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANY MECHANISM FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO APPLY A STRICTER REQUIREMENT BEYOND WHAT THE ZONING CODE ALREADY HAS FOR THE DISTRICT. LIKE I NOTED, THE WATERSHED DISTRICT DID CONTACT ME TODAY AND I FORWARDED IT TO THE APPLICANT THAT THE APPLICANT WILL HAVE TO PROVIDE PLANS FOR MITIGATING STORMWATER RUNOFF ON THE SITE AND EROSION CONTROL ON THE SITE. SO THAT'S PART OF WHAT THEY'LL HAVE TO WORK OUT AS THEY'RE MOVING THROUGH THE PDR AND BUILDING PERMIT STAGE WITH THE WATERSHED DISTRICT. [1:34:50] **President Meyer:** OKAY. AND THEN A DIFFERENT TESTIFIER ASKED ABOUT SAFETY. TO WHAT EXTENT IS THAT WITHIN OUR PURVIEW? IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN FACTOR IN? [1:35:08] **Lindsey Silas:** ARE YOU SPEAKING ABOUT THE SAFETY ABOUT CARS ENTERING AND EXITING, WAS THAT SPECIFICALLY THE ONE? THERE WAS A COMMENT THAT'S IN YOUR PACKET BURIED IN PDR COMMENTS. THIS HAS BEEN REVIEWED BY SEVERAL DEPARTMENTS IN PUBLIC WORKS AND THE FINAL PLANS WILL HAVE TO ADDRESS ALL OF THOSE COMMENTS. ONE OF THE COMMENTS WAS THAT THEY WILL HAVE TO HAVE LIKE AN ALERT SOUND WHEN THE GARAGE DOOR IS OPENING DUE TO THE LOCATION OF THE GARAGE DOOR, PROXIMITY TO THE PUBLIC SIDEWALK. SO THEY WILL HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PEDESTRIAN ALERT WHEN THE GARAGE DOOR IS OPENING IN THE BUILDING. PUBLIC WORKS HAS REVIEWED THIS FOR CONSISTENCY WITH THEIR STANDARDS LOOKING AT INTERFACE WITH THE PUBLIC STREET AND THE PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY. [1:36:01] **Lindsey Silas:** I WILL NOTE SOME OF THE CONCERNS RAISED ABOUT 42nd AND SAFE CROSSING AND THAT SORT OF THING, I THINK THERE ARE ROUTES FORWARD THROUGH THE CITY TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS. BUT THOSE WOULD BE THINGS THAT COULD BE ADDRESSED DIRECTLY WITH PUBLIC WORKS. I KNOW THAT THERE ARE I WAS ACTUALLY TRYING TO FIND IT. THERE'S A FORMAT TO REQUEST INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS, BOTH THROUGH A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT PROGRAMS THAT PUBLIC WORKS HAS. SO I CAN CERTAINLY IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN THOSE RESOURCES, FEEL FREE TO EMAIL ME AND I'LL FIND THEM FOR YOU. [1:36:21] **President Meyer:** YEAH, AND THAT WAS MY LAST QUESTION IS DID PUBLIC WORKS SAY ANYTHING ABOUT POTENTIALLY ADDING A CROSSWALK OR ONE OF THE TRAFFIC CALMING OPTIONS LIKE A—I DON'T KNOW WHAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE AT THE SITE BUT—A PEDESTRIAN ISLAND OR SOMETHING ELSE LIKE THAT TO MAKE CROSSING EASIER? [1:36:55] **Lindsey Silas:** THERE'S NOTHING FLAGGED IN THE PDR REPORT. SO PDR IS REVIEWED BY I THINK THREE DIFFERENT SECTIONS THAT DEAL WITH THE TRAFFIC SYSTEM AND NONE OF THEM HAD FLAGGED ANYTHING LIKE THAT AROUND IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE COMING TO THE SITE. BUT CERTAINLY THOSE THINGS HAPPEN AND I THINK WITH COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT THEY CERTAINLY HAPPEN A LITTLE BIT QUICKER. IF THAT IS A REAL CONCERN ABOUT PEOPLE CROSSING ON 42nd AND HAVING SAFE PASSAGE BETWEEN THE SIDES OF THE STREET, CERTAINLY WORTH EXPLORING. [1:37:14] **President Meyer:** OKAY. COMMISSIONERS, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE WE CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING? COMMISSIONER CONLEY. [1:37:31] **Commissioner Conley:** THANK YOU. SO I WAS GOING TO ASK ABOUT THE WORK WITH THE MINNIEHAHA CREEK WATERSHED DISTRICT. YOU MENTIONED THE EROSION CONTROL. CAN YOU DESCRIBE OR GIVE SOME EXAMPLES OR OTHER WORK THAT THEY MIGHT BE DOING WITH THE DEVELOPER FOR ENVIRONMENT PIECES OF THE PROJECT? [1:37:50] **Lindsey Silas:** I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH ALL OF THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT THE WATERSHED HAS THEIR HANDS IN IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE ON A PROJECT. SHE DID FLAG THAT SHE REVIEWED THE STAFF REPORT IN THE ATTACHMENTS AND SAID THAT A LOT OF THE INFORMATION ALREADY PROVIDED IN THE PLANS IS COMPLYING WITH THEIR STANDARDS. SO I DO KNOW THAT THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED SOME STORMWATER RETENTION ON SITE. I'M NOT SURE ALL THE EXTENT OF WHAT THE WATERSHED WOULD BE LOOKING FOR IN THE FINAL PLANS. [1:38:12] **Commissioner Conley:** THANK YOU. AND I THINK THE OTHER THING I HAVE IS REALLY JUST A STATEMENT. AND COMMISSIONERS, WE HAVE HEARD BEFORE WITH PROJECTS LIKE THIS, WE'VE SEEN IT BEFORE US IN PREVIOUS MEETINGS WHERE THE ABILITY TO HAVE A PUBLIC WORKS PERSPECTIVE WHERE THERE'S INCREASED DENSITY ALONG STRETCHES OF ROAD WHERE THERE ARE NO CROSSWALKS OR WHERE THERE'S A LONG STRETCH BETWEEN STOP SIGNS AND RED LIGHTS AND WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS UP HERE BEFORE ABOUT WHAT IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE TO HAVE A PERSPECTIVE OF STREET CALMING AS A PART OF DEVELOPMENT SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I'M ALSO INTERESTED IN AND HAVE BEEN SINCE WE'VE HAD THESE KIND OF DISCUSSIONS HAPPEN WHERE FOLKS DO HAVE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS AROUND INCREASED DENSITY, BUT ALSO IN CONJUNCTION WITH JUST MOVING AROUND SAFELY. SO WHETHER IT'S NOTIFYING SPEAKING GARAGE DOORS, TO ME IT'S MEDIANS AND LIT CROSSWALKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO IT WOULD BE INTERESTING WHAT AVENUES FOLKS HAVE. I'M GLAD YOU'RE WILLING TO SHARE THOSE RESOURCES. WHAT AVENUES FOLKS HAVE TO BRING TRAFFIC CALMING AND CROSSWALKS AND OTHER SAFETY MECHANISMS TO THE STREET WHERE NEW DEVELOPMENTS HAPPEN. THANK YOU. [1:39:38] **President Meyer:** I SHARE THAT SENTIMENT. IT'S OFTEN FRUSTRATING WHEN WE HAVE CONCERNS COME TO US ABOUT TRAFFIC THAT ARE IN THE DOMAIN OF PUBLIC WORKS AND WE CAN'T REALLY ADDRESS THEM HERE. I WILL SAY I DON'T LOVE THE IDEA OF THE GARAGE ALERTS. IT'S KIND OF A NUISANCE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE WE CLOSE THE HEARING? ALL RIGHT. I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONERS, COMMENTS, MOTIONS? [1:40:10] **President Meyer:** ALL RIGHT. I'LL LEAD US OFF IF NO ONE ELSE WILL. LIKE I SAID, I SYMPATHIZE WITH THE TRAFFIC CONCERNS. I'M PLEASED TO HEAR PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF PARKING. USUALLY WE GET COMPLAINTS IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION SAYING THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH. SO I APPRECIATE THE PEOPLE AND RECOGNIZE THAT THE MORE PARKING THERE IS, THE MORE TRAFFIC THERE IS GOING TO BE. AND WE SHOULD BE TRYING TO REDUCE THE VOLUME OF TRAFFIC. THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN GOALS OF THE 2040 PLAN. I BELIEVE THIS PROJECT DOES MEET THE GOALS OF THE 2040 PLAN BECAUSE IT'S ON A TRAFFIC CORRIDOR. THAT'S WHY IT'S ZONED AS CORRIDOR THREE. [1:40:59] **President Meyer:** ONE OF THE MAIN GOALS OF THE PLAN IS TO ALLOW MORE PEOPLE TO LIVE CLOSE TO AMENITIES LIKE THE E LINE OR LIKE LAKE HARRIET. AND MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF PARKING THERE OR TO PROVIDE OTHER SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS LIKE CROSSWALKS OR OTHER TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURES, THOSE AREN'T WITHIN OUR ABILITY TODAY. OUR ONLY THINGS THAT WE'RE ABLE TO CONSIDER ARE THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND THE SITE PLAN REVIEW. MOST OF THIS PROJECT IS AUTHORIZED BY RIGHT BECAUSE OF ITS ZONING AS CORRIDOR THREE. [1:41:46] **President Meyer:** THE ONLY THING THAT ISN'T REALLY IS THE 2.5 TO 3 STORY FOR THE SHORELAND COMPONENT. BUT LIKE I SAID, THE SHORELAND OVERLAY ADDS AN ADDITIONAL LEVEL OF SCRUTINY, IT DOESN'T PROHIBIT TALLER BUILDINGS. WE HAVE A LOT OF MUCH TALLER BUILDINGS THAT WE HAVE APPROVED. AND I THINK THAT IT MAKES SENSE TO GRANT THIS CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE FOR CORRIDOR THREE. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION FROM COMMISSIONERS? COMMISSIONER FORNEY AND THEN BAXLEY. [1:42:32] **Commissioner Forney:** I WILL BE VOTING AGAINST THIS. THE SHORELAND OVERLAY IS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY, VERY NEAR AND DEAR TO ME. IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF HEIGHT. IT IS A MATTER OF IMPERVIOUS SURFACE. IT'S ABOUT BIRD MIGRATION. SO THOSE THINGS ARE VERY NEAR AND DEAR TO ME AND SO I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THIS BASED UPON ITS INTRUSION ON THE SHORELAND OVERLAY. THANK YOU. [1:42:58] **President Meyer:** JUST TO CLARIFY ON THAT. THE ONLY PART OF THE SHORELAND OVERLAY THAT IS UNDER CONSIDERATION IS THE HEIGHT. THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE IS NOT. OKAY. COMMISSIONER BAXLEY. [1:43:08] **Vice President Baxley:** THANKS, MR. CHAIR. I WONDER IF WE MIGHT CONSIDER BREAKING THIS UP INTO TWO VOTES, ONE FOR THE SITE PLAN AND ONE FOR CONDITIONAL USE. **President Meyer:** KIMBERLY, WOULD THAT MAKE SENSE? [1:43:24] **Kimberly Holien:** IF THAT'S THE PURVIEW OF THE COMMISSION, THAT WOULD BE FINE. PRESUMABLY IF THE CUP FOR HEIGHT WERE DENIED, THE APPLICANT WOULD BE MAKING SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES TO THE SITE PLAN REVIEW APPLICATION. I GUESS I CAN'T SAY WHETHER OR NOT THOSE COULD BE REVIEWED ADMINISTRATIVELY. BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S NECESSARILY ANY HARM IN SEPARATING THEM OUT. IT MAY CAUSE A BIT OF CONFUSION. [1:43:45] **Vice President Baxley:** LET ME EXPLAIN WHY POTENTIALLY AGAIN I THINK BY RIGHT THE APPLICANT CAN BUILD THIS BUILDING WITH THE FOOTPRINT SHOWN. THE ISSUE IS HEIGHT HERE. AND I THINK WE DON'T GET A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES TO COMMENT OR HELP SHAPE THIS TRANSITION. WE GO FROM SINGLE FAMILY TO MULTIFAMILY HOUSING. WE HAVE THESE STARK CONTRASTS IN VOLUME AND HEIGHT THAT ARE IMPOSED BECAUSE OF WHERE WE NEED TO GET TO FOR DENSITY, RIGHT? [1:44:24] **Vice President Baxley:** AND I THINK THIS SITE IS PARTICULARLY INTERESTING BECAUSE OF THIS SLICE. IT DOES GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IS APPROPRIATE, HOW DO WE SHAPE THIS TRANSITION FROM CURRENT STATE TO FUTURE STATE. AND I THINK WHILE FIVE FEET DOESN'T SOUND LIKE MUCH, IT ACTUALLY I THINK CAN HAVE A DRAMATIC IMPACT IN TERMS OF SHADOWING AND VOLUMETRIC SHAPING OF A PROJECT. I THINK THE SITE PLAN BY RIGHT, WE SHOULD APPROVE IT. BUT I THINK THE VOLUME OF THIS BUILDING AND ITS IMPOSITION ON ITS NEIGHBORS IS SHAPED BY THE FACT THAT THIS SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT CUTS RIGHT THROUGH. [1:45:13] **Vice President Baxley:** TO THE NORTH YOU CAN TAKE TWO PROPERTIES, COMBINE IT, AND BUILD THE BUILDING HEIGHT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. BUT IN THIS CASE WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT'S APPROPRIATE, HOW DO WE MAKE THIS TRANSITION. SO I THINK FOR ME BREAKING IT UP INTO NOT APPROVING THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND -- **President Meyer:** SO YOU'RE PROPOSING TO APPROVE THE SITE PLAN REVIEW AND DENY THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT? [1:45:39] **Vice President Baxley:** CORRECT. **President Meyer:** SO YOU WOULD NEED TO PROVIDE A DIFFERENT FINDING FOR THAT. **Vice President Baxley:** I'M NOT CLEAR AS TO THE LEGAL FINDING FOR THE CONDITIONAL USE. I'M NOT CONVINCED OF THE WORDING ON WHAT STAFF HAS BROUGHT FORWARD YET, SO I'D NEED TO HEAR THAT AGAIN. WHAT'S ITS GROUNDS? **President Meyer:** THIS WOULD BE ON PAGE THREE. OR MAYBE 3 AND 4. [1:46:11] **Kimberly Holien:** SO THE STAFF FINDINGS FOR THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CAN BE FOUND IN YOUR PACKET. I THINK LINDSEY ALSO KIND OF SUMMED THAT UP ON PAGE 12 OF HER PRESENTATION WHICH TALKS ABOUT ESSENTIALLY A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT ALLOWS THE CITY TO REVIEW USES THAT BECAUSE OF THEIR UNIQUE CHARACTERISTICS ARE NOT PERMITTED AS OF RIGHT BUT MAY BE ALLOWED UPON SHOWING THAT SUCH USE IN A SPECIFIED LOCATION WOULD COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS AND STANDARDS OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. THE THIRD BULLET POINT HERE IS SOMETHING OUR CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAS ITERATED THAT DENIAL OF CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS MUST BE BASED ON REAL DOCUMENTED HARMS OF THE USE THAT CAN'T BE MITIGATED THROUGH THE IMPOSITION OF CONDITIONS. [1:47:07] **Vice President Baxley:** SO I FULLY RESPECT STAFF'S OPINION ON THIS. BUT STAFF CAN STATE AN OPINION, BUT WE HAVE TO PROVE FACTUALLY THE OPPOSITE OF THAT, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? SO I GUESS WE DON'T KNOW -- I JUST DON'T FEEL LIKE THE PUSHING FORWARD OF THE CONDITIONAL USE HAS DEFINED EXACTLY THE REQUIREMENTS TO MEET FOR CONDITIONAL USE. [1:47:33] **Kimberly Holien:** SO IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION WERE TO FOR EXAMPLE IF YOU WERE TO PROPOSE OR MAKE A MOTION TO DENY THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THE SET OF FINDINGS IN THE STAFF REPORT IS A PROPOSED SET OF FINDINGS THAT STAFF PUTS TOGETHER -- **Vice President Baxley:** UNDERSTOOD. **Kimberly Holien:** THE PLANNING COMMISSION WOULD NEED TO MAKE AN ALTERNATE SET OF FINDINGS AS PART OF THAT MOTION. **Vice President Baxley:** OKAY. [1:47:56] **President Meyer:** THIS IS WHY IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO CLARIFY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A VARIANCE AND A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. FOR A VARIANCE, THE DEFAULT IS WE DON'T ALLOW IT AND IF WE DON'T SEE A REASON TO APPROVE IT, WE CAN JUST DENY A VARIANCE. WE STILL HAVE TO MAKE THE FINDINGS, BUT IT'S A LOT EASIER TO DO. FOR THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THE DEFAULT ASSUMPTION IS THAT THEY ARE AUTHORIZED TO DO THIS. WE HAVE TO ACTIVELY FIND A STRONG REASON WHY THEY CAN'T. SO LOOK THROUGH THE DIFFERENT FINDINGS THAT THE STAFF HAS PROPOSED AND SEE IF YOU WANT TO PROPOSE AN ALTERNATE ONE. [1:48:42] **Vice President Baxley:** I'LL LET MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS WEIGH IN A LITTLE BIT WHILE WE THINK OF WHAT THOSE MIGHT BE. **President Meyer:** COMMISSIONER CONLEY. [1:48:51] **Commissioner Conley:** THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE THE CASE FOR HARM HERE. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT I'VE BEEN PERSUADED ENOUGH THAT THERE'S HARM TO DENY THE C.U.P. THAT'S WHERE I'M AT. WE WOULD NEED TO MAKE THE CASE THAT THIS CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AS PROPOSED IS HARMFUL. AND I DON'T THINK I HAVE THAT. **Vice President Baxley:** UNDERSTOOD. [1:49:15] **Commissioner Wagner:** THANK YOU, CHAIR MEYER. APPRECIATE ALL OF THE INPUT FROM EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THIS PROJECT FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, FROM STAFF, AND IT'S CLEAR THIS IS IMPORTANT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS A WHOLE. I LIVE IN SOUTHWEST MINNEAPOLIS AND I RUN IN THE AREA AND I RUN AROUND LAKE HARRIET ALL THE TIME. SHERIDAN IS A FAIRLY UNIQUE STREET IN THAT IT FEELS LIKE A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD STREET. IT FEELS QUIET. BUT I LOOKED UP TRAFFIC COUNTS AND IF YOU LIVE ON THE STREET, THERE IS A STEADY STREAM OF TRAFFIC ON THAT STREET. [1:49:49] **Commissioner Wagner:** AND I THINK TO THE COMMENTS ABOUT TRAFFIC, WE AS A CITY NEED TO BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT HOW WE DESIGN THAT STRETCH OF SHERIDAN TO BOTH CONTINUE FUNCTIONING AS A NEIGHBORHOOD STREET, WHILE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGING THAT IT IS A THOROUGHFARE FROM THAT SECTION OF THE CITY TO UPTOWN AND TO -- AND THE VEHICLE COUNTS ON THAT STREET ARE HIGH. SO DO WE NEED TRAFFIC CALMING OR DO WE NEED CROSSWALKS OR DO WE NEED TO MAKE CHANGES RELATIVE TO THAT AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT RESIDENTS SHOULD CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND WITH THEIR CITY COUNCILOR AND PERHAPS WITH THE DEVELOPER AS THIS PROJECT PROGRESSES. [1:50:27] **Commissioner Wagner:** FOR ME, I KIND OF ECHO COMMISSIONER CONLEY'S COMMENTS AND COMMISSIONER MEYER'S COMMENTS. I'M NOT SURE I SEE HARM HERE IN REGARDS TO THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FROM 2.5 TO 3 STORIES. I PULLED UP THE ZONING CODE AND I SEE IN THE HEADING OF THE CODE FOR THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT, THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT IS ESTABLISHED TO PRESERVE AND ENHANCE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITIES OF SURFACE WATERS AND THE NATURAL AND ECONOMIC VALUES OF SHORELAND AREAS WITHIN THE CITY. [1:50:56] **Commissioner Wagner:** AND THEN IT GOES ON AND ON. WE ARE ON THE VERY END OF THE SHORELAND OVERLAY DISTRICT HERE AND GOING FROM 2.5 TO 3 STORIES IN THIS INSTANCE TO ME SEEMS FINE, IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT'S CAUSING HARM. IF THIS PROJECT WAS ACROSS THE STREET, IT COULD BE BUILT BY RIGHT. IF THIS PROJECT WAS TWO DOORS NORTH, IT COULD BE BUILT BY RIGHT. I'M INCLINED TO FOLLOW STAFF FINDINGS ON BOTH THE SITE PLAN AND THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. THANK YOU. [1:51:25] **Commissioner Gordon:** YEAH. I'D LIKE TO EXPLORE THE OPTION OF TABLING THIS C.U.P. GIVEN THE IMMENSE AMOUNT OF COMMUNITY INPUT ALSO WAS PERCEIVED BY THE COMMUNITY AS A LACK OF ENGAGEMENT REGARDING WHAT THEY WOULD FEEL IS HARM, TRAFFIC ISSUES, SAFETY. CONCERNS REGARDING THE INFORMATION PROVIDED WHETHER THAT'S NOT TRUSTING A PHOTOGRAPH, NOT TRUSTING SHADOW STUDIES, THE DEVELOPMENT OF DRAWINGS, I THINK THERE IS A DRAWING INCLUDED BY A RESIDENT, THAT WAS AN ELEVATION, MR. RITTER, AN ELEVATION WITH GOOD CONTEXT IN THERE. IT WAS A STREET ELEVATION. WE GET A LOT OF FLAT ELEVATIONS, WE GET A LOT OF PERSPECTIVE. WE'RE NOT GETTING THE NECESSARY AMOUNT OF DETAIL I FEEL IN THE SHADOW STUDY IN A WALL SECTION AND SOME OF THE DRAWINGS PROVIDED. SO I THINK THERE'S BEEN A STRONG REQUEST FOR THAT, SO I'D LIKE TO GET INFORMATION REGARDING TABLING THIS. [1:52:20] **President Meyer:** AS ALWAYS I WOULD DISCOURAGE THAT. I THINK THE APPLICANT'S DESERVE A YES OR NO VOTE. THE OTHER THING IS THAT WE ARE ON A TIMELINE. KIMBERLY, CAN YOU REVIEW THAT TIMELINE FOR US? HOW MANY DAYS IT WOULD BE BEFORE THEY WOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY APPROVED? [1:52:51] **Kimberly Holien:** I AM JUST LOOKING AT THIS RIGHT NOW. I NEED TO PULL UP WHAT THE 60 DAY DEADLINE IS ON THIS ONE. WE ARE IN A BIT OF A UNIQUE SITUATION HERE WHERE IF THIS WERE CONTINUED ONE CYCLE, IT WOULD GO TO THE NOVEMBER 17TH PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. THE TEN-DAY APPEAL PERIOD FOR THAT EXPIRES NOVEMBER 27TH. JUST THE WAY CALENDARS ARE LOOKING, IT WOULD NOT GET IN FRONT OF THE CITY COUNCIL UNTIL JANUARY. AND MY COMPUTER IS LOADING VERY SLOWLY, BUT IF LINDSEY HAS THE END OF THE 120 HANDY, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. [1:53:33] **Lindsey Silas:** THE END OF THE 60 DAY PERIOD IS DECEMBER 5TH. SO PROBABLY EARLY FEBRUARY, FEBRUARY 3RD OR SO FOR THE IF WE EXTENDED IT AN ADDITIONAL 60 DAYS IN THE EVENT OF AN APPEAL. **Kimberly Holien:** COUNCIL, WITH AN ELECTION YEAR DOESN'T HAVE A CALENDAR ADOPTED FOR NEXT YEAR. SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE. WE COULD FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN AND MEET THE 60/120 UNDER STATE LAW. BUT IT WOULD PROBABLY NOT BE IDEAL AT THIS POINT. [1:54:07] **President Meyer:** YEAH, WITH IT RUNNING INTO THE HOLIDAYS -- FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ASKED IT FROM THE AUDIENCE, IT COULD RESULT IN THE APPLICANT AUTOMATICALLY GETTING ALL APPROVALS IF THAT HAPPENS. I DIDN'T HEAR A MOTION THERE. WAS THERE ANYMORE DISCUSSION? [1:54:33] **Commissioner Sheppard:** I JUST HAD A FEW POINTS OF CLARIFICATION. MAY WE ALSO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? WE CANNOT. **President Meyer:** WE CAN, BUT I'M TRYING TO GET US TO DO THAT BEFORE THE PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED. **Commissioner Sheppard:** MY BAD. ACTUALLY, LINDSEY, JUST TWO POINTS OF CLARIFICATION. THE WRITTEN DOCUMENTS MENTION A 60% REDUCTION IN ENERGY USE, BUT I'VE HEARD VERBALLY HERE 50%, WHICH IS THE NUMBER? [1:54:55] **Lindsey Silas:** THANK YOU FOR FLAGGING THAT, COMMISSIONER SHEPPARD. THE NUMBER IS THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE 50%. THERE WAS A ZONING CODE TEXT AMENDMENT THAT HAPPENED SOMEWHAT RECENTLY AND UNFORTUNATELY OUR TEMPLATE WASN'T UPDATED BUT THE NUMBER THEY AGREED TO ON THE APPLICATION IS 50%. **Commissioner Sheppard:** AND I THINK IT WAS STATED DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING THAT [OFFSETS] EXPIRE IN A YEAR, BUT I'M NOT CLEAR THAT THAT IS TRUE? [1:55:19] **Lindsey Silas:** I GUESS IN TERMS OF THE ADMINISTRATION OR WHETHER THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING RENEWABLE ENERGY CREDITS OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW WHICH PATH THEY'RE PROPOSING TO TAKE, BUT ONCE THEY HAVE APPLIED FOR A PREMIUM, THEY NEED TO COMPLY WITH THAT PREMIUM FOR THE LIFE OF THE STRUCTURE. **Commissioner Sheppard:** THANK YOU, THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. THANKS. [1:55:34] **President Meyer:** SO WHAT I WOULD PROPOSE IS WE CONSIDER FIRST A MOTION FOR THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, IF THAT FAILS, WE CONSIDER AN ALTERNATIVE FROM BAXLEY IF YOU HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE FINDING TO PROPOSE. IF THAT FAILS, THEN WE'LL CONSIDER TABLING. [1:55:52] **Commissioner Wagner:** I WOULD MOTION TO APPROVE AS STAFF SUGGESTS THE COMBINED. **Commissioner Conley:** SECOND. **President Meyer:** IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS? ALL RIGHT, NOT SEEING ANY, SO CLERK, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. [1:56:10] **Clerk:** COMMISSIONER CONLEY. **Commissioner Conley:** AYE. **Clerk:** FORNEY. **Commissioner Forney:** NO. **Clerk:** GORDON. **Commissioner Gordon:** NO. **Clerk:** SHEPPARD. **Commissioner Sheppard:** AYE. **Clerk:** WAGNER. **Commissioner Wagner:** AYE. **Clerk:** VICE PRESIDENT BAXLEY. **Vice President Baxley:** NAY. **Clerk:** AND PRESIDENT MEYER. [1:56:41] **President Meyer:** AYE. **Clerk:** THERE ARE FOUR AYES AND THREE NAYS. **President Meyer:** SO THAT PASSES. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU EVERYONE. WE'RE NOW GOING TO MOVE ON TO OUR LAST AGENDA ITEM. ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, THE TEXT AMENDMENT FOR SIGNAGE STANDARDS. IF EVERYONE ELSE WHO IS NOT HERE TO DISCUSS OUR SIGN ZONING, IF YOU CAN PLEASE STEP OUTSIDE AND CARRY CONVERSATIONS OUT THERE. SARA, YOU MAY JUST GIVE 30 SECONDS FOR PEOPLE TO MOVE OUT. [1:57:59] **Sara Roman (Staff):** THANK YOU, PRESIDENT MEYER AND COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS SARA ROMAN. I'M INTRODUCING THIS EVENING FOR A PUBLIC HEARING, A CODE AMENDMENT FOR OUR SIGN ORDINANCE. OVER A YEAR AGO, STAFF RECEIVED A REQUEST BY OUR POLICYMAKERS TO REVIEW EXISTING SIGN REGULATIONS AND DETERMINE HOW THEY COULD BE AMENDED TO INCREASE VIBRANCY, ARTS AND CULTURE, AND SAFETY IN DOWNTOWN MINNEAPOLIS. [1:58:27] **Sara Roman:** TALL ORDER. WE RECOGNIZE THAT SIGNS ARE ONE PIECE OF A BROADER APPROACH THAT IS GOING TO INCREASE VIBRANCY, MAKE MINNEAPOLIS DOWNTOWN A MORE INTERESTING AND LIVELY PLACE TO BE, INCREASE THE SENSE OF SAFETY. BUT WITHIN THE SIGN ORDINANCE WORK WE ARE INCLUDING ON-PREMISES AND OFF-PREMISES SIGNS, THOSE ARE SIGNS FOR LOCAL BUSINESSES AS WELL AS BILLBOARDS. AND WE ALSO AS PART OF THIS AMENDMENT LOOKED AT HOW SIGN REGULATIONS CAN INCREASE VISIBILITY FOR DOWNTOWN BUSINESSES, PARTICULARLY OUR SKYWAY BUSINESSES AND WE LOOKED AT A FOCUS AREA ALONG PORTIONS OF 1st AND HENNEPIN AVENUE AS PART OF THIS EFFORT AS WELL. [1:59:06] **Sara Roman:** SOME RECOMMENDATIONS THAT YOU'LL SEE IN THE AMENDMENT AND IN YOUR STAFF REPORT ARE RELATED TO CITY-WIDE REGULATIONS OR FOR LOCATIONS OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN. SO WE JUST WANT TO NOTE THAT WHERE WE ARE LOOKING AT REGULATIONS OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN, WE ARE PRIMARILY MAKING CHANGES RELATED TO PROCESSES AND MAKING IT EASIER FOR BUSINESSES TO NAVIGATE THE CITY SIGN ORDINANCE AND THE PROCESSES INVOLVED IN THAT. [1:59:34] **Sara Roman:** I JUST WANT TO NOTE THAT THE PURPOSE OF REGULATIONS GENERALLY SPEAKING ARE TO PREVENT TRAFFIC HAZARDS AND TO CONTROL AESTHETIC QUALITY. I INCLUDE THIS IMAGE, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT AESTHETIC QUALITY IS DIFFERENT DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ASK. AND SO PARTICULARLY WHEN WE ARE LOOKING AT SIGNS, THERE IS NOT ALWAYS CONSENSUS ON WHAT IS THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF SIGNAGE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH. [1:59:51] **Sara Roman:** QUICK LEVEL SETTING: ON-PREMISES SIGN REGULATIONS ARE FOR WHERE SIGNS CAN BE LOCATED, HOW MANY CAN BE LOCATED, AND THEY ARE RELATED TO SIGNS FOR BUSINESSES THAT ARE LOCATED ON A PROPERTY. OUR OFF-PREMISES SIGN REGULATIONS ARE WHAT'S KNOWN AS OUR BILLBOARD ORDINANCE. SO THESE ARE SIGNS THAT ARE FOR A BUSINESS OR AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR SOMETHING THAT IS OCCURRING NOT ON THE PROPERTY WHERE THE SIGN IS LOCATED. [2:00:32] **Sara Roman:** OUR CURRENT SYSTEM OF REGULATING BILLBOARDS HAS BEEN IN PLACE SINCE THE MID-1990s. AT THAT POINT, WE IMPLEMENTED A SIGN CREDIT SYSTEM FOR BILLBOARDS AND THE GOAL OF THAT SIGN CREDIT SYSTEM WAS TO REMOVE BILLBOARDS FROM NON-CONFORMING LOCATIONS. THOSE ARE NEIGHBORHOODS OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN. WHEN YOU REMOVED A BILLBOARD YOU WOULD GET A SIGN CREDIT. THAT SIGN CREDIT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO CONSTRUCT A BILLBOARD EITHER ALONG OUR LIMITED ACCESS ROADWAYS, THOSE ARE OUR HIGHWAYS, OR WITHIN PORTIONS OF DOWNTOWN. WE ALSO CURRENTLY HAVE A BILLBOARD ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT WHERE SIGN CREDITS ARE NOT REQUIRED. BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, CREDITS ARE NOT TRANSFERABLE. AND SO YOU MAY HAVE HEARD THAT THERE IS A MONOPOLY RELATED TO THE SIGN CREDIT SYSTEM WHERE ONE COMPANY HOLDS ALL OF THE SIGN CREDITS IN THE CITY. [2:01:24] **Sara Roman:** I WANT TO NOTE THAT A LOT OF RECENT PLANNING WORK HAS GONE INTO DOWNTOWN GENERALLY WITHIN THESE PLANS. SO THE WAREHOUSE DISTRICT TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE PANEL REPORT. THE DOWNTOWN ACTION PLAN AND THE VIBRANT DOWNTOWN ACTION STORE FRONTS REPORT. THERE WERE RECOMMENDATIONS AROUND INCREASING THE NUMBER AND LOCATION OF SIGNS. SO JUST MAKING SURE THAT BUSINESSES WERE ABLE TO ADVERTISE APPROPRIATELY DOWNTOWN AND GENERALLY TO LIVEN UP THE SENSE OF DOWNTOWN THROUGH SIGNAGE AS ONE MECHANISM. WE ALSO WOULD LIKE TO NOTE THAT THERE HAS BEEN MANY, MANY HOURS OF STAKEHOLDER ENGAGEMENT THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS. PART OF WHY WE ARE COMING TO YOU OVER A YEAR SINCE THIS REQUEST WAS MADE BY STAFF IS BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT OF ENGAGEMENT WORK AROUND SIGNS. [2:02:02] **Sara Roman:** TO MOVE INTO OUR PROPOSED CHANGES, THE FIRST CHANGES THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT ARE ON-PREMISES SIGN REGULATIONS DOWNTOWN. SO OUR LOCAL BUSINESS SIGNS. REALLY HERE WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT ALLOWING MORE SIGNS IN MORE PLACES AND ALLOWING NEW TYPES OF SIGNS. SO WE ARE ALLOWING ON-PREMISES SIGNS ON NON-PRIMARY BUILDING WALLS THAT ARE CURRENTLY ONLY ALLOWED ON PRIMARY BUILDING WALLS. THOSE ARE BUILDING WALLS THAT FACE A STREET. THIS WOULD ALLOW MORE FLEXIBILITY TO PROPERTIES, PARTICULARLY THOSE THAT HAVE INTERESTING PLATTING OR THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE BUILDING IS NOT CONDUCIVE NECESSARILY TO HAVING SIGNAGE ONLY ON A PRIMARY BUILDING WALL. THIS JUST GIVES EXTRA FLEXIBILITY FOR A BUSINESS TO CHOOSE WHERE THOSE SIGNS ARE LOCATED. [2:03:10] **Sara Roman:** WE'RE ALSO LOOKING TO INCREASE TOTAL SIGN AREA ALLOWED. SO THAT'S THROUGH A FEW DIFFERENT MECHANISMS. WE HAVE THAT ADDITIONAL ALLOCATION FOR NON-PRIMARY BUILDING WALLS. WE HAVE AN EXTENSION OF THE MINIMUM SIGN AREA GUARANTEE. SO CURRENTLY IF YOU ARE A GROUND-FLOOR BUSINESS, YOU ARE GUARANTEED A MINIMUM SIGN AREA. EVEN IF YOUR SIGNS ON YOUR BUILDING ALREADY EXCEED THE MINIMUM, YOU COULD INSTALL A SIGN. WE ARE EXTENDING THAT MINIMUM SIGN AREA TO SKYWAY BUSINESSES OR SECOND-STORY BUSINESSES. SO AGAIN IF YOU HAVE A SIGN ON A BUILDING THAT'S TAKING UP ALL OF YOUR ALLOCATION ALREADY, AND THERE IS A SKYWAY BUSINESS OR A SECOND-STORY BUSINESS THAT WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A SIGN, WE WOULD ALLOW AN ALLOCATION FOR THAT SPECIFIC SIGN. WE ARE ALSO PROPOSING TO EXEMPT DIRECTORY SIGNS. SO AN ADDITIONAL WAYFINDING TOOL, THEY MUST BE LOCATED NEAR BUILDING ENTRANCES, BUT THIS WOULD ALLOW BUILDINGS WITHOUT HAVING IT COUNTED TOWARDS THEIR TOTAL SIGN AREA TO PUT UP AN EXTERIOR DIRECTORY SIGN TELLING PEOPLE ON THE STREET WHAT BUSINESSES ARE LOCATED IN THAT STRUCTURE. [2:04:04] **Sara Roman:** WE ARE ALSO PROPOSING TO INCREASE THE BUILDING SIGN HEIGHT. SO THAT'S THE HEIGHT OF THE SIGN AS MEASURED FROM THE SIDEWALK TO THE TOP OF THE SIGN, FROM 48 FEET TO 60 FEET. IT'S NOT A BIG CHANGE, BUT IT WOULD ENCOMPASS THE VAST MAJORITY OF VARIANCE REQUESTS THAT WE SEE. AGAIN JUST MAKING THESE PROCESSES EASIER FOR BUSINESSES DOWNTOWN. ANOTHER INTERESTING THING THAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS TO ALLOW A SMALL SCALE COMBINATION OF ON-PREMISES AND OFF-PREMISES SIGNS. SO ANY SIGN IN THE CITY THAT'S AN ON-PREMISES SIGN WOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE A MAXIMUM 20% OF THEIR SIGN AREA OR SIGN TIME FOR A DYNAMIC SIGN TO BE OFF-PREMISES SIGNAGE. [2:04:50] **Sara Roman:** THAT COULD BE AN AD FOR A NATIONAL RETAILER. BUT IDEALLY IN TALKING WITH SOME OF OUR DOWNTOWN STAKEHOLDERS, WE WOULD LOVE THAT THIS PROVISION WOULD BE USED FOR ADVERTISEMENTS FOR OTHER LOCAL BUSINESSES AS WELL AS ADVERTISEMENTS FOR DISTRICTS THAT ARE CREATED, SO ESSENTIALLY BRANDING FOR DIFFERENT DISTRICTS WITHIN DOWNTOWN. THEY COULD ALSO BE USED FOR WAYFINDING. THERE'S A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT THIS FLEXIBILITY WOULD ALLOW. IT WOULD ALSO ALLOW SHARING OF ADVERTISEMENT FOR EVENTS FOR EXAMPLE. [2:05:32] **Sara Roman:** WE ARE ALSO PROPOSING TO ALLOW A FEW NEW SIGN TYPES. INCREASING OUR ABILITY TO ADD NEW INTERESTING THINGS DOWNTOWN, LIGHT PROJECTIONS IN OUR DOWNTOWN ENTERTAINMENT AREA. SO THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S ON YOUR LEFT IS OF A LIGHT PROJECTION THAT'S MAPPED ONTO THE STRUCTURE OF A BUILDING. THIS IS GREAT FOR OUR HISTORIC STRUCTURES SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO PERMANENTLY INSTALL ANYTHING ON THE EXTERIOR OF A STRUCTURE. AND WE ARE PROPOSING THIS IN THE DOWNTOWN ENTERTAINMENT AREA FIRST. IF IT GOES WELL, WE WOULD LIKE TO COME BACK WITH A PHASE TWO AND PROPOSE IT FOR MORE AREAS OF DOWNTOWN. WE ARE ALSO PROPOSING TO ALLOW PORTABLE SIGNS MORE COMMONLY KNOWN AS SANDWICH BOARD OR A-FRAME SIGNS. THEY WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED IN THE WALKING PORTION OF THE SIDEWALK IN THE PEDESTRIAN AREA. WE HAVE A DIAGRAM IN OUR CODE THAT'S RELATED TO THAT. BUT THEY'RE VERY POPULAR WITH DOWNTOWN BUSINESSES AND THEY'RE CURRENTLY NOT ALLOWED. SO WE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THAT FIX TO ALLOW THEM. [2:06:32] **Sara Roman:** BUILDING TYPE SIGNS ARE ANOTHER THING WE WOULD LIKE TO EXPLORE ALLOWING. FIRST WE WOULD LIKE TO START WITH SKYWAY BRIDGES AND IDEALLY IF THAT GOES WELL, IN CONVERSATION WITH OUR HISTORIC PRESERVATION STAFF, WE WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS HOW BUILDING WRAP SIGNS COULD BE USED ELSEWHERE IN THE CITY. THESE WOULD DIFFER FROM FOR EXAMPLE A PAINTED WALL SIGN IN THAT IT IS TYPICALLY A FILM THAT'S APPLIED TO THE EXTERIOR OF A STRUCTURE. SO THERE'S SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW THAT WORKS WITH THE MATERIAL OF A BUILDING. BUT THEY ALSO TYPICALLY COVER WINDOWS AND OTHER ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES. SO CERTAINLY WE WANT TO HAVE A ROBUST CONVERSATION AROUND WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN FOR VISIBILITY IN AND OUT OF STRUCTURES AND HOW THAT WOULD AFFECT THE STREETSCAPE IN GENERAL. [2:07:26] **Sara Roman:** WE ARE ALSO PROPOSING TO ALLOW DYNAMIC SIGNS WITHOUT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. CURRENTLY ANY DYNAMIC SIGN IN DOWNTOWN WOULD NEED TO COME IN FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. THE ADDITIONAL PROCESS STEP TYPICALLY MIMICS THE SAME REGULATIONS THAT WE REQUIRE IN THE ZONING CODE. WE'RE NOT GENERALLY SEEING ANY ADDITIONAL STANDARDS PLACED ON THOSE SIGNS, IT IS JUST AN ADDITIONAL PROCESS STEP THAT IS TAKING ADDITIONAL TIME AND EFFORT OF STAFF AND NOT RESULTING ANY CHANGES BEING REQUIRED OF THESE BUSINESSES. [2:07:57] **Sara Roman:** WE'RE ALSO PROPOSING CHANGES FOR SKYWAY BRIDGES. THIS IS JUST THE PORTION OF THE SKYWAY BRIDGE THAT IS CROSSING THE PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY. THAT IS THE ONLY PORTION THAT THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS HAS ANY CONTROL OVER. THEY HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A REALLY NEAT OPPORTUNITY WITHIN DOWNTOWN TO HAVE MORE PUBLIC ART AND TEMPORARY SIGNAGE. SO WE DO ALREADY HAVE EXAMPLES OF PUBLIC ART IN MINNEAPOLIS BUT THE EXAMPLE ON YOUR SCREEN IS OF ST. PAUL. WITH SOME REGULATIONS AROUND TRANSPARENCY, WE WOULD BE ALLOWING TEMPORARY ON-PREMISES SIGNS FOR NO LONGER THAN 90 DAYS. TEMPORARY ART, PERMANENT ART, AND THEN ALSO CARVING OUT A NEW ALLOWANCE FOR EVENTS THAT DON'T BLOCK PEDESTRIAN MOVEMENT. SO YOU MAY HAVE HEARD PROPOSALS FOR MINI GOLF THROUGH THE SKYWAY. THOSE ARE TECHNICALLY NOT ALLOWED, BUT THROUGH THIS PROVISION WOULD BE ALLOWED WITH AN EVENT PERMIT. [2:08:52] **Sara Roman:** THE CHANGES RELATED TO ON-PREMISES SIGN REGULATIONS CITY WIDE ARE IN GENERAL PROCESS SIMPLIFICATIONS, SO A SIMPLIFICATION OF SIGN PERMIT FEES. IT'S CURRENTLY 14 DAYS AFTER AN EVENT THAT REQUIRES TRACKING OF WHEN AN EVENT ACTUALLY TAKES PLACE. SO WE'RE JUST SIMPLIFYING THAT TO BE A 60 DAY MAXIMUM. THIS IS GREAT FOR OUR SMALL BUSINESSES AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A SIGN THAT ALREADY COMPLIES WITH CODE AND YOU ARE JUST CHANGING THAT SIGN OUT. YOU'RE NOT CHANGING THE ILLUMINATION OR THE SIZE. YOU CAN GO THROUGH AND MAKE THAT CHANGE WITHOUT COMING TO STAFF. AND ALSO ALLOWING CONDITIONAL WALL SIGNS THROUGH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. THAT PROCESS PRIOR REQUIRED A MINIMUM HEIGHT. AND NOW THIS WOULD JUST ALLOW ANY PROPERTY THAT BELIEVED THAT THEY HAD SOME ISSUE WITH COMPLYING WITH CODE TO COME FORWARD FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. [2:09:53] **Sara Roman:** THE ONE PROVISION THAT I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT HERE IS AN EXEMPTION FOR PAINTED WALL SIGNS FROM REGULATION. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE EXAMPLE ON YOUR SCREEN, THIS RECORD STORE, THAT MURAL—I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD CONSIDER THAT A MURAL. BUT THAT ADVERTISEMENT WOULD NOT CURRENTLY BE ALLOWED UNDER OUR ORDINANCE. ANY DEPICTION OF WHAT'S GOING ON INSIDE THAT BUSINESS IS CONSIDERED PART OF THE SIGN UNDER OUR CURRENT REGULATIONS. AND SO WE WOULD LIKE TO ALLOW MORE FLEXIBILITY FOR PAINTED WALL SIGNS. THEY HAVE A REALLY RICH HISTORY AND STORIED HISTORY IN THE CITY. WE SEE BEAUTIFUL EXAMPLES OF PAINTED WALL SIGNS THROUGHOUT OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY AND BUSINESS DISTRICTS. SO THAT'S ONE OF THE PROVISIONS OF THE ORDINANCE THAT WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT. WE'RE HOPING TO SEE SOME INTERESTING CHANGES THERE AND JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT FOR YOU ALL TONIGHT. [2:11:14] **Sara Roman:** WE ALSO HAVE SOME PROPOSED TEXT AMENDMENTS RELATED TO ON-PREMISES SIGNS IN SPECIFIC DISTRICTS OR FOR SPECIFIC USES, AGAIN PRIMARILY RELATED TO PROCESS OR TO AMENDMENT FIXES. I DON'T HAVE A SLIDE FOR THEM IN THE DECK JUST FOR THE INTEREST OF TIME, BECAUSE I KNOW WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE SOME DISCUSSION ON THAT. BUT IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THOSE PROVISIONS, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO DISCUSS WITH YOU ALL. AND THEN OUR CHANGES RELATED TO OFF-PREMISES SIGN REGULATIONS. [2:11:33] **Sara Roman:** UNDER THIS PROPOSAL, STAFF IS PROPOSING TO RETIRE THE SIGN CREDIT SYSTEM FOR OFF-PREMISES SIGNS. THAT WOULD RESULT IN A PAUSE ON THE INSTALLATION OR CONVERSION OF BILLBOARDS. SO THERE WOULD BE FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME, NO NEW BILLBOARDS AND NO CONVERSION OF BILLBOARDS FROM STATIC TO DIGITAL. WE ALSO INCLUDED A PROVISION THAT REQUIRES THAT ANY NEW BILLBOARD THAT IS INSTALLED—SO ONCE THE PAUSE IS COMPLETE—ANY NEW BILLBOARD THAT IS INSTALLED WOULD HAVE TO BE LOCATED ON A LOT WITH AN ACTIVE USE. SO THAT IS TO DETER SUBSIDIZATION OF STRUCTURES. WE ALSO ENCOURAGED SIGNS FOR DOWNTOWN SPORTS EVENTS IN TOWN. SOME OF OUR MOST LOVED MURALS OF OUR SPORTS TEAMS ARE NOT CURRENTLY IN CODE. SO THIS WOULD ALLOW THOSE TYPES OF SIGNS RELATED TO FESTIVALS AND THE SUCCESS OF OUR SPORTS TEAMS TO OCCUR IN DOWNTOWN FOR 90 DAYS MAXIMUM. A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE TYPE OF SIGN THAT THAT WOULD ALLOW IS THE PHOTO OF DETROIT WITH THAT DETROIT LIONS WE'LL CALL IT AN ADVERTISEMENT OR A MURAL. [2:12:46] **Sara Roman:** WE ARE ALSO INCLUDING IN THE CHANGES TO OFF-PREMISES SIGN REGULATIONS AN EXEMPTION FOR OFF-PREMISES SIGNS FOR CITY-OWNED PROPERTIES. SO HOW WILL THIS PAUSE AFFECT PROPERTY OWNERS? PROPERTY OWNERS WITH EXISTING PERMITTED BILLBOARDS WOULD STILL RETAIN ALL OF THEIR EXISTING RIGHTS. THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO MAINTAIN, OPERATE THEIR SIGNS, CHANGE THE SIGNAGE THAT'S LOCATED ON THOSE BILLBOARDS. THEY WOULD JUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO SUBSTANTIALLY ALTER THAT BILLBOARD OR TO CONVERT IT FROM STATIC TO DIGITAL. THE PAUSE WOULD ALSO TEMPORARILY RESTRICT NEW BILLBOARD CONSTRUCTION OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN AND SO WE JUST WANT TO NOTE THAT THIS IS A CITY-WIDE CHANGE TO OUR BILLBOARD POLICY. PROPERTY OWNERS COULD STILL ALSO RENEGOTIATE OR REBID THEIR BILLBOARD LEASES DURING THIS PAUSE. [2:14:10] **Sara Roman:** THIS PAUSE IS EXPECTED TO BE TIME LIMITED. AND SO I DO WANT TO JUST TAKE SOME TIME TO REVIEW WHY STAFF IS MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS PAUSE WHILE WE MOVE INTO A SECOND PHASE OF SIGN CODE REGULATIONS CHANGES THAT WOULD TAKE PLACE WITHIN APPROXIMATELY A YEAR. THE CITY IS TAKING A FEW STEPS DURING THIS INTERIM PAUSE. FIRSTLY, THE ARTS AND CULTURAL AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT IS CONDUCTING A CULTURESCAPE VISIONING PROCESS. THEY ARE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT AREAS WITHIN DOWNTOWN AND REIMAGINING WHAT THOSE AREAS COULD BE. SO THIS IS REALLY GROUND BREAKING, INVENTIVE WORK THAT IS OCCURRING. AND WE WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THE ARTS AND CULTURAL AFFAIRS STAFF THE SPACE TO COMPLETE THAT PROCESS AND TO CREATE AN INTENTIONAL VISION FOR OUR DOWNTOWN. ONCE THEY HAVE SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS AROUND BILLBOARDS FOR DOWNTOWN, WE WOULD TAKE THOSE INTO ACCOUNT IN OUR SECOND PHASE OF WORK. [2:15:05] **Sara Roman:** WE ARE ALSO INTENDING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A LEGISLATIVE ASK THAT WOULD ENABLE THE CITY TO HAVE A REVENUE-GENERATING BILLBOARD PROGRAM. SO THIS IS VERY COMMON IN CITIES LIKE DENVER, MIAMI, ATLANTA, SAN ANTONIO. THEY EITHER REQUIRE REVENUE SHARING OR THROUGH A PERMIT FEE ARE CREATING A TANGIBLE PUBLIC BENEFIT. SO THEY ARE TAKING THAT REVENUE THAT IS CREATED FROM BILLBOARDS AND THEY ARE REINVESTING THAT MONEY INTO THEIR DOWNTOWNS AND THEIR ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICTS TO FUND THINGS LIKE PUBLIC ART AND FESTIVALS. THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS IS VERY INTERESTED IN MOVING FORWARD WITH A PROGRAM LIKE THAT. BUT WE DO NOT HAVE THE LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY TO PURSUE THAT OPTION AT THIS POINT. AND SO DURING THIS PAUSE, WE WOULD BE MOVING FORWARD AT THE LEGISLATURE TO MAKE THAT ASK AS PART OF A PACKAGE OF REQUESTS RELATED TO DOWNTOWN IMPROVEMENT. [2:16:02] **Sara Roman:** WE ARE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGING THAT A LOT OF THE INPUT THAT WAS RECEIVED AROUND BILLBOARDS WAS FROM STAKEHOLDERS THAT WERE RELATED TO MEDIA COMPANIES OR PROPERTIES THAT ALREADY HAVE BILLBOARDS. AND THERE IS NOT CLEAR CONSENSUS AROUND BILLBOARDS AND WHAT A PROGRAM SHOULD LOOK LIKE. AND SO THIS PAUSE WOULD ALSO ALLOW CPED TO TAKE THE TIME TO SPEAK WITH DOWNTOWN RESIDENTS AND NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CORRECT BALANCE OF BILLBOARDS MOVING FORWARD COULD LOOK LIKE. [2:16:19] **Sara Roman:** SO THAT DOES CONCLUDE MY PRESENTATION. CERTAINLY I WILL STAND FOR QUESTIONS. JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I WAS BRIEF ENOUGH THAT WE HAD TIME FOR EVERYONE TO SPEAK WHO'S HERE TO SPEAK ON THE PROPOSAL. I DO WANT TO NOTE THAT TIMING IS FAIRLY IMPORTANT FOR THIS AMENDMENT. WE DO WANT TO GET THROUGH THE ADOPTION PROCESS BY THE END OF THE YEAR TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE AN OFFER IN PLACE. SO STAFF IS ASKING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THESE ORDINANCE CHANGES TONIGHT AND MOVE THIS FORWARD SO THAT WE CAN GET ADOPTION PRIOR TO THE END OF THE YEAR. I'LL STAND FOR QUESTIONS. [2:16:53] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU, SARA. I DO WANT TO NOTE, OUR CAPTIONER CAN STAY UNTIL 8:00 P.M. SO WE'VE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF AN EXTENSION. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE PUBLIC HEARING? THANK YOU, SARA. I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. I HAVE SIX PEOPLE WHO HAVE REGISTERED. FIRST I HAVE TOM McCARVER THEN ROGER WORM. TOM, IF YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF. AND YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES. [2:17:28] **Tom McCarver:** THANK YOU. TOM McCARVER. I REPRESENT 700 HENNEPIN, HENNEPIN REAL ESTATE PARTNERS AND I'M ALSO WITH BLUE OX MEDIA GROUP. WE OWN 700 HENNEPIN AND ARE GOING THROUGH REDEVELOPMENT OF THAT PROPERTY AND LOOKING AT NEW USES. I WOULD LIKE TO COMMEND STAFF FOR A BIG CHUNK OF WORK HERE. THE SIGN CODE IS A LOT IN ANY CITY. SO THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF GREAT WORK. WE JUST GOT THIS A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO SO WE'RE TRYING TO DIGEST IT AND WE'RE KIND OF ON THE FLY RIGHT NOW TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT. [2:18:33] **Tom McCarver:** THERE ARE TWO BASIC ASKS THAT I WOULD HAVE. ONE IS TO—I GET THERE IS SOME NEED TO CONTINUE THIS ON A RELATIVELY QUICK SCALE—IF WE COULD PAUSE THIS FOR ONE CYCLE SO WE COULD ACTUALLY TAKE SOME TIME WITH IT AND SAY OKAY, PUT IT MORE THOUGHTFULLY, LOOK INTO THIS AND HAVE SOME MORE COMMENTS REGARDING THAT. THE SECOND IS THERE IS A PROVISION IN HERE THAT WAS JUST DISCUSSED ABOUT A PAUSE. I GET WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO GO WITH THAT. THAT'S A DE FACTO MORATORIUM WITH NO END. SO WE'RE ASKING FOR THAT TO NOT OCCUR, TO LET THE ORDINANCE WORK AS IT'S INTENDED. THERE IS NO REASON THAT WE CAN'T CONTINUE HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS FOR ALL OF THE VIBRANT PIECES THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. I WANT TO BE PART OF ALL OF THAT. I THINK ALL OF THE SIGN COMPANIES DO. SO THAT WOULD BE OUR TWO BASIC ASKS IS CAN WE MOVE THIS FOR ONE MORE CYCLE OR TABLE IT AND TALK ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BECAUSE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT CURRENTLY HAVE—WE'RE IN THE ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT, THERE'S A FEW OTHERS LIKE THAT—HAVING THAT FLEXIBILITY IS A BIG PART OF BUILDING OWNERSHIP IN THAT AREA. THANK YOU. [2:19:15] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. ROGER WORM AND THEN NEXT WILL BE KEITH PARKER. [2:19:32] **Roger Worm:** MY NAME IS ROGER WORM, I'M ON THE BOARD OF THE SOUTHWEST BUSINESS ASSOCIATION. WE COVER 520 STORE FRONTS SOUTH OF LAKE STREET EXCLUDING 50TH AND FRANCE. 90% OF OUR BUSINESSES ARE VERY SMALL BUSINESSES IN THAT AREA. I THINK WE REPRESENT WHAT I WOULD CALL THOSE AREAS OF MINNEAPOLIS THAT HAVE A MULTITUDE OF SMALL BUSINESSES. ONE OF THE REASONS, I THINK I FEEL LIKE I'M THE TAIL WAGGING THE DOG HERE WITH ALL OF THE BIG THINGS THAT SARA HAS INTRODUCED. I JUST WANT TO REINFORCE THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR EXEMPTIONS CONSISTENT WITH ALL OF THE OTHER EXEMPTIONS IN THE CODE: THAT IF I HAVE ROGER'S BIKE SHOP AND IT'S ALREADY PERMITTED, I TAKE IT DOWN AND MAKE IT BILL'S BIKE SHOP—THE SAFETY FACTORS FROM HAVING A LICENSED ERECTOR DO IT AND ALL OF THAT—IT SORT OF MAKES THE SAME LOGICAL SENSE TO EXEMPT THAT. [2:20:28] **Roger Worm:** IN OUR AREA WE HAVE BEEN FORTUNATE ENOUGH—EXCUSE ME, TRYING TO MAKE THIS QUICK—FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO RECEIVE 15 FACADE GRANTS FROM THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS. AND WE'VE AWARDED OR ADMINISTERED OVER 400 AWARDS, 80 OF WHICH WERE SIGNS. SO WE'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE SIGN CODE AND WORKING WITH BUSINESS ON THE SIGN CODES. IN OUR AREA MOST SIGNS COST BELOW $2,000. SO BETWEEN THE $200 FOR THE SIGN AND THE $200 TO PROCESS, IT ADDS A SIGNIFICANT COST TO THE SMALL BUSINESSES. AND OUT OF THAT, HALF OF THOSE WERE NEW ONES. ANY QUESTIONS? I THINK THIS WAS HANDED TO YOU, HOPEFULLY IT'S IN YOUR POSSESSION. [2:21:18] **President Meyer:** I CAN'T SEE FROM HERE, BUT I BELIEVE THAT'S ONE WE HAVE. YES. THANK YOU. KEITH PARKER. AND THEN DANA FRANK WOULD BE NEXT. [2:21:35] **Keith Parker:** THANK YOU, CHAIR MEYER AND COMMISSION MEMBERS. MY NAME IS KEITH PARKER. I'M THE HEAD OF OPERATIONS FOR THE WALKER ART CENTER. WE ARE IN THE CONCEPT PHASE AND HOPING TO PUT SOME DIGITAL SIGNAGE ON OUR PROPERTY. THE INTENTION OF THAT WOULD BE OF COURSE TO ADVERTISE THE WALKER ART CENTER'S PROGRAMMING. BUT WE HAVE MANY CORPORATE SPONSORS AND SUPPORTERS. WE WORK VERY COLLABORATIVELY WITH THE ARTS COMMUNITY IN GENERAL. SO WE WOULD ENVISION THAT THIS SIGNAGE WOULD ALSO DO SOME ADVERTISING AND PROMOTING OF SOME OF THOSE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE NORTH -- WHO WE PARTNER WITH. [2:22:10] **Keith Parker:** I THINK IN YOUR PACKET, YOU SEE THAT WE STARTED TO PROACTIVELY DO SOME INITIAL COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AS WE'RE IN THIS CONCEPT PHASE. WE RECOGNIZE IT AS JUST A CONCEPT. BUT IN THE SPIRIT OF TRANSPARENCY, WE'VE REALLY MADE AN EFFORT TO START COMMUNICATING WITH OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO TALK ABOUT OUR INTENTION AND SO YOU PROBABLY HAVE SOME LETTERS OF SUPPORT THERE FROM THE BASILICA AND DUNWOODY. WE'VE ALSO BEEN TALKING TO THE LORING PARK NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND FRIENDS OF LORING PARK. BECAUSE OF THAT, YOU SEE SOME COMMENTS FROM 510 GROVELAND WHICH IS ONE OF THE BUILDINGS THAT WOULD BE DIRECTLY ON THE EAST SIDE OF HENNEPIN AVENUE. SO OUR GOAL IS JUST TO HOPEFULLY MOVE FORWARD. WE WANT TO REALLY THANK COUNCILMEMBER CASHMAN AND HER STAFF FOR ALL OF THE WORK THAT THEY'DE DONE TO HELP US KIND OF SHEPHERD THROUGH THIS CONCEPT AND UNDERSTAND THE CITY ORDINANCE AND THE STEPS WE WOULD NEED TO TAKE. SO JUST WANT TO THANK YOU GUYS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION AND GIVE YOU SOME SENSE OF WHAT OUR INTENTION WOULD BE. [2:23:15] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. WE HAVE DANA FRANK AND THEN KELSEY SHARP. [2:23:32] **Dana Frank:** HI. MY NAME IS DANA FRANK. I'M THE OPERATOR OF FIRST AVENUE AT THE CORNER OF 7th AND 1st AVENUE WITH THE GIANT BILLBOARDS ON THE ROOF. I ALSO OWN THE PROPERTY AT THE FINE LINE BUILDING AND FIRST AVENUE BETWEEN 3rd AND 4th STREET. FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS AMAZING OVERHAUL THAT I KNOW I WAS ONE OF THE STAKEHOLDERS ENGAGED IN AND THE AMOUNT OF INTERVIEWS AND PROCESS THAT WENT INTO THIS IS REALLY, REALLY IMPRESSIVE. [2:23:48] **Dana Frank:** I WANT TO SPEAK SPECIFICALLY TO 360, 320 WHICH I HEARD AS A PAUSE BUT IT'S REALLY A MORATORIUM. IT STATES ANYONE WITH EXISTING BILLBOARDS CANNOT CONVERT FROM STATIC TO DIGITAL OR CAN'T ALTER. AND UNDERSTANDING THAT INTENTION AS A PAUSE IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM HOW IT'S WRITTEN AND RELYING ON A FUTURE COUNCIL, A FUTURE MAYOR AND A FUTURE LEGISLATURE TO PASS SOMETHING IN ORDER TO CHANGE THIS IS A GENUINELY TERRIFYING SITUATION FOR ANYONE WITH EXISTING BILLBOARDS TO BE IN. AND HONESTLY, I FIND IT COMPLETELY UNTENABLE. AS WE GO THROUGH A FIRST AVENUE REDESIGN PROCESS, AS WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE TARGET CENTER, THE WHOLE ENTIRE DOWNTOWN LANDSCAPE COULD CHANGE AROUND US, AND WE MIGHT HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH EXISTING SIGNS. [2:24:38] **Dana Frank:** AND SO, UNDERSTANDING THE INTENTION IS MAYBE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I READ. AND AGAIN, WE ONLY SAW THIS ON FRIDAY SO IT'S BEEN A VERY BUSY WEEKEND TRYING TO DIGEST THIS AND UNDERSTAND THIS FOR WHAT SOME OF US HONESTLY KEEPS US IN BUSINESS IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO OPERATIONS. I WOULD REQUEST AN AMENDMENT STRIKING THE MORATORIUM TO ALLOW US TO ADJUST OUR BUSINESS BASED ON ECONOMIC AND MARKET CONDITIONS JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER BUSINESS CAN DO AND NOT HAMSTRING US AND CAUSE US TO FALL BEHIND AS THE REST OF THE WORLD IS CHANGING AROUND US. THANK YOU SO MUCH. [2:25:14] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. KELSEY SHARP AND THEN TOBY BRILL. [2:25:31] **Kelsey Sharp:** MY NAME IS KELSEY SHARP. I LIVE IN NORTH MINNEAPOLIS. I RUN A SIGN SHOP IN SOUTH MINNEAPOLIS. AND WE ALSO HAVE AN OFFICE IN DOWNTOWN. I'M EXCITED ABOUT THESE PROPOSED UPDATES. I FEEL LIKE THE ONE THING I WOULD SAY IS IT FEELS LIKE RED LINING THESE VERY IMPORTANT CHANGES OR GERRYMANDERING THESE IMPORTANT CHANGES INTO ONE DISTRICT THAT THE CURRENT POLICYMAKERS WANT TO INVEST IN WHEN THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER CULTURAL CORRIDORS THAT I FEEL LIKE ALSO WOULD GREATLY BENEFIT FROM THESE CHANGES TO THE SIGN ORDINANCES. [2:26:00] **Kelsey Sharp:** AND THEN SO BESIDES DOWNTOWN, THE FACT THAT WALKER ART CENTER WOULDN'T EVEN BE IN THE PROPOSED ZONE FOR THESE CHANGES IS CRAZY BECAUSE WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT THAT'S A CULTURAL ZONE. A LOT OF THE NEW VIBRANT STOREFRONTS THAT THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS HAS DESIGNATED WOULDN'T EVEN BE BENEFITING FROM THESE CHANGES TO THE SIGN ORDINANCES. I'M FOR ALL OF THESE CHANGES, I WOULD JUST LOVE TO SEE A LIST OF THE OTHER CULTURAL CORRIDORS THAT THEY WOULD EXPAND IT TO AND A TIMELINE FOR WHEN THAT WOULD HAPPEN BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THOSE ARE THE BUSINESSES THAT I SERVE. I ALSO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THERE'S A LOT OF TALK ABOUT BILLBOARDS AND A LOT OF THE WORK THAT I DO IS TRADITIONAL SIGN WORK. SO I'D BE CURIOUS WHERE THE CITY WOULD LAND ON HAND PAINTED ADVERTISEMENTS LIKE IN NEW YORK AND L.A., YOU SEE A LOT OF HAND-PAINTED SIGNS ON THE SIDES OF BUILDINGS. SO THE ADS FOR iPHONE OR WHATEVER, MAKEUP BRAND, YOU SEE THOSE TYPE OF HAND-PAINTED ADVERTISEMENTS. SO I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THAT KIND OF BILLBOARD BE CONSIDERED AND ADDRESSED AS WELL. THANK YOU. [2:27:03] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. TOBY BRILL AND THEN RAND LEVY. [2:27:25] **Rand Levy:** HELLO, I'M RANDY LEVY. I'M A MINNEAPOLIS RESIDENT. TOBY BRILL WILL BE SPEAKING NEXT. WE'VE MET WITH A NUMBER OF COUNCIL PEOPLE. THERE MAY BE AN IMPORTANCE—OUR DISCUSSIONS HAVE BEEN ABOUT OFF PREMISE SIGNS. AND DONE PROPERLY AS HAS BEEN DONE IN DENVER AND ATLANTA AND SAN ANTONIO AND THESE VARIOUS TOWNS, YOU'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT CAN COME BACK TO THE CITY. AND I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN THAT COME UP IN THE COMMENTS OR IN THEIR PRESENTATION. IN DENVER, IT'S $1.2 MILLION PER YEAR THAT COMES BACK TO THE CITY BY THE PRIVATELY RUN -- PRIVATE/PUBLIC ENTITY THAT CONTROLS THE BILLBOARD SIGN DISTRICT. [2:28:19] **Rand Levy:** SO IT'S A DEEPER DISCUSSION, BUT I THINK I WANTED TO MAKE SURE Y'ALL UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE WAS SOME SUBSTANTIAL CASH INVOLVED. AND FOR BETTER OR WORSE WHOEVER WANTS TO SWITCH FROM A STATIC SIGN TO A DIGITAL SIGN, IDEALLY YOU WOULD CREATE A SIMILAR ENTITY AS THESE OTHER TOWNS HAVE DONE AND MAKE IT A SUBSTANTIAL GENERATOR OF FUNDS. [2:28:47] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. TOBY BRILL. [2:29:02] **Toby Brill:** GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS TOBY BRILL. MY COLLEAGUE RANDY LEVY WHOM I WORK WITH IS A RESIDENT OF WARD 7. I'M A RESIDENT OF WARD 3. AND ONE OF OUR OTHER TEAM MEMBERS IS A RESIDENT OF WARD 11. WE HAVE A SMALL COMPANY WHO WORKS WITH ACQUISITIONS, DISPOSITIONS, VALUATION, AND PROJECT MANAGEMENT OF OFF-PREMISE SIGNS. I HAPPEN TO BE A CERTIFIED PROJECT MANAGER. SO WE ACTUALLY CAN DO THE INSTALLATION FROM GROUND FLOOR UP. NOW I'M SURE WITHOUT TURNING AROUND AND ASKING FOR HANDS THAT EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM WANTS MINNEAPOLIS TO BE A MUCH MORE COSMOPOLITAN CITY THAN IT IS RIGHT NOW. [2:29:50] **Toby Brill:** AND YES THROUGH SIGNS OUR CITY CAN TRANSFORM. AND IT'S ABOUT TIME IT DOES. IN THIS PARTICULAR TITLE 20 ORDINANCE CHANGE WHICH I UNDERSTAND TO BE PHASE ONE—AND AGAIN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONLY OFF-PREMISE SIGNS—FOR OUR PURPOSES THERE'S KIND OF A MIX IN THE MATERIALS. SPEAKING ABOUT ON-PREMISE SIGNS AND THEN SWITCHING TO OFF-PREMISE SIGNS AND THEN UNDERSTANDING THIS IS PHASE ONE AND THERE'S GOING TO BE A PHASE TWO. WE NEED A LITTLE BIT CLEARER DELINEATION ON WHAT THE TIMELINE IS. [2:30:32] **Toby Brill:** I BELIEVE YOU HAVE RECEIVED OUR REDLINE OF THIS ORDINANCE. IT'S DATED NOVEMBER 3RD. AND I LIKE THE OTHERS KNEW ABOUT THIS ON FRIDAY. SO THERE ARE TEN POINTS THAT APPEAR ON PAGE 1 AND 2 OF THE REDLINE. WE ASK THAT THIS PARTICULAR ORDINANCE CHANGE WHICH -- SO MANY DIFFERENT OVERLAY DISTRICTS BE -- **President Meyer:** CAN YOU PLEASE WRAP UP YOUR COMMENTS? **Toby Brill:** WELL, YOU HAVE THE COMMENTS. WE NEED THE MAPS. WE NEED SIGN DIMENSIONS TO BE CHANGED. WE NEED DISPLAY TIMES TO BE ADDRESSED. THE DISTRICTS, THE MANY DISTRICTS THAT ARE LISTED NEED TO BE CONSOLIDATED INTO 1, 2, OR 3. THERE DOESN'T NEED TO BE SEVEN DISTRICTS HERE. BUT TO RANDY'S POINT, AROUND THE COUNTRY IN PART OF THEIR EXHIBITS THEY INCLUDE THE WHAT WE CALL SELF-FUNDED ARTS SIGNAGE ZONES. AND THEY'RE TAKING THEIR SELF-FUNDED ART SIGNAGE ZONES AND TURNING THEM INTO AN ACTION REQUIREMENT. THERE'S A DISTINCTION, WE'D LIKE THAT BETTER EXPLAINED. [2:31:53] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. LAST WE HAVE DANIELLE KENYAN. [2:32:10] **Danielle Kenyon:** HI, THANK YOU. AND I DO APPRECIATE ALL THE TIME THAT WAS SPENT WORKING ON THIS AND BEING PART OF SOME OF THE COMMITTEES THAT GAVE FEEDBACK. I WANT TO JUST REITERATE WHAT SOME OF THE OTHERS SAID. HAVING MORE TIME TO LOOK THROUGH THE LARGE DOCUMENT THAT WE JUST RECEIVED WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. AND I ALSO DISAGREE WITH THE MORATORIUM ON BILLBOARDS. IT'S NOT CLEAR AND YOU KNOW, ONCE THAT IS PUT OFF TO THE SIDE NOT ALLOWED, IT WILL BE CLOSE TO IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE IT ALLOWED AGAIN RIGHT? WE'RE WELL AWARE OF WHAT THE CHALLENGES WITH CHANGING SOMETHING FROM A STATIC TO A DIGITAL BILLBOARD. SO THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SAY. THANK YOU. [2:32:46] **President Meyer:** THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THAT CONCLUDES OUR PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONERS, QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? [2:32:57] **President Meyer:** I GUESS I'LL START US OFF IF NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO. I GAVE A LOT OF MY COMMENTS ABOUT THIS AT THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. I WON'T REPEAT ALL OF THEM. BUT OVERALL I'M PRETTY EXCITED ABOUT THIS. AND DEFINITELY WANT TO SEE US ADVOCATE TO THE LEGISLATURE—SEE THE CITY ADVOCATE TO THE LEGISLATURE—TO SEE IF THEY CAN GET SOME TAXING REVENUE OUT OF THIS. [2:33:38] **President Meyer:** THE MORATORIUM, I DON'T REMEMBER IT BEING BROUGHT UP AT COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE, SARA. WAS THAT INCLUDED AT THAT POINT? IT WAS? OKAY. I DON'T HAVE A STRONG OPINION ABOUT THAT. I'D BE OPEN TO REVISING THAT IF COMMISSIONERS DO HAVE A STRONG OPINION ON THAT. I DO THINK WE SHOULD MOVE THIS FORWARD FOR THE PUBLIC. THIS IS JUST THE FIRST STAGE OF THIS, THIS HAS TO GO TO THE CITY COUNCIL BHZ COMMITTEE AND THEN THE FULL COUNCIL. THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WE HAVE THIS PROCESS, THIS IS THE INITIAL TIME WHERE YOU GET COMMENTS. AND THEN THE COUNCIL GETS TO LISTEN TO THE CONCERNS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP HERE AND MORE CAREFULLY CONSIDER THEM AT A LATER STAGE. SO YOU'LL HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY. I WOULD STRONGLY DISCOURAGE US FROM DELAYING THIS FROM MOVING FORWARD. BUT IF ANYONE HAS ANY CHANGES THAT THEY WOULD LIKE MAKE, I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO HEAR THEM. COMMISSIONER WAGNER. [2:34:33] **Commissioner Wagner:** THANK YOU, CHAIR MEYER. I HAVE JUST A COMMENT OR A CLARIFICATION QUESTION FOR STAFF AND THE PUBLIC I THINK IT WOULD BE USEFUL ABOUT HOW THIS PROCEEDS FROM HERE. SO IT GOES TO BHZ AND THERE WILL BE NO PUBLIC HEARING AT BHZ, IS THAT CORRECT? [2:34:55] **Sara Roman:** THAT'S CORRECT. THE PUBLIC HEARING IS BEING HELD AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION. **Commissioner Wagner:** SO IF STAKEHOLDERS OR PEOPLE AFFECTED BY THIS ORDINANCE WANTED TO HAVE THEIR VOICES HEARD, THEY WOULD WANT TO CONTACT THEIR CITY COUNCILLOR SEATED ON BHZ, IS THAT CORRECT? [2:35:05] **Sara Roman:** THAT'S CORRECT. AND THE AUTHOR OF THIS PARTICULAR AMENDMENT IS COUNCILMEMBER CASHMAN WHO IS ON THE BHZ COMMITTEE. **Commissioner Wagner:** AND IF THERE WERE TO BE ANY AMENDMENTS BEYOND WHAT WE PASS TODAY IF WE WERE TO PASS IT, THAT WOULD NEED TO BE BROUGHT FORWARD BY ONE OF THE COUNCILORS SEATED ON BHZ, IS THAT CORRECT? [2:35:16] **Sara Roman:** AMENDMENTS TO THE TEXT COULD HAPPEN AT THE BHZ COMMITTEE OR AT THE FULL CITY COUNCIL. **Commissioner Wagner:** AND I THINK I'VE WATCHED SOME BHZ COMMITTEES AND SOME CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS ON YOUTUBES. MORE OFTEN THAT'S DONE AT BHZ CORRECT AND THEN BY THE TIME IT GETS TO THE CITY COUNCIL, THEY TRY TO MOVE A LITTLE BIT MORE QUICKLY AND GET THINGS DONE AND PASSED, IS THAT FAIR TO SAY? [2:35:39] **Sara Roman:** CORRECT. IDEALLY, IF THERE WERE ANY CHANGES MADE TO WHAT'S PASSED HERE TODAY, THAT WOULD BE DONE IN COMMITTEE. THAT'S WHERE THE COUNCIL DOES THE MAJORITY OF THEIR WORK. AND THEN THE COMMITTEE REPORT WOULD BE PRESENTED TO CITY COUNCIL. **Commissioner Wagner:** THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO I GUESS WITH THAT CLARIFICATION IN MIND, THAT WAS REALLY HELPFUL FOR ME. I HOPE HELPFUL FOR FOLKS HERE. I THINK IT'S A GREAT STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. I THINK THAT THERE ARE DEFINITELY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES THAT NEED TO BE HEARD AND SOME CONCERNS THAT PERHAPS COULD BE INCORPORATED IN. I DON'T FEEL I HAVE THE DEPTH OF UNDERSTANDING IN SIGN ZONING CODE TO DEFER FROM STAFF ON THEIR RECOMMENDATION. I KNOW HOW MUCH WORK HAS GONE INTO THIS ORDINANCE. I KNOW WE SAW IT AT COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. AND I KNOW THAT STAKEHOLDERS HAVE BEEN ENGAGED AND THERE'S BEEN A TON OF WORK BEEN PUT INTO THIS. AND TO THINK THAT I HAVE MORE EXPERTISE THAN FOLKS WHO HAVE WORKED ON THIS FOR A LONG TIME WOULD BE UNFAIR. SO I THINK I WILL BE SUPPORTING THE ORDINANCE AS WRITTEN. THANK YOU. [2:36:45] **President Meyer:** COMMISSIONER FORNEY AND THEN SHEPPARD. [2:36:50] **Commissioner Forney:** SINCE I'M LATE TO THE GAME ON ALL OF THIS, I'M DOING A LOT OF CATCH UP. AND I WOULD SAY PROBABLY MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS THE BIRD SAFETY. AND SO WHEN I SEE THE SHORELAND AND THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER CORRIDOR HERE AND EVERYTHING, NOT KNOWING ENOUGH ABOUT THIS AND EVERYTHING, THAT TO ME IS VERY IMPERATIVE THAT THAT'S PROTECTIVE. I WILL ALSO SAY PERSONALLY I HATE BILLBOARDS. I LOVE BEING IN NEW ZEALAND AND MAINE WHERE THERE ARE NO BILLBOARDS BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT OUR PURVIEW IS HERE. BUT THE BIRD SAFETY IS SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. LIKE [LIGHT] POLLUTION IS SOMETHING I BELIEVE WE SHOULD ADVISE HOWEVER TO RESTRICT. THANK YOU. [2:37:55] **President Meyer:** I DO WANT TO SAY I THINK IT IS IN OUR PURVIEW, IF YOU WANTED TO PROPOSE SCRATCH THIS AND JUST BAN ALL BILLBOARDS, I THINK THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD DO. **Commissioner Forney:** AS FAR AS BIRD SAFETY? **President Meyer:** IF YOU WANT US TO BE NEW ZEALAND OR SOMETHING, THAT IS -- **Commissioner Forney:** I WOULD LOVE TO ADD ON THAT OUR SHORELAND AND OUR FLYWAYS NEED TO BE PROTECTED. I THINK IT'S PARAMOUNT THAT YEAH. SO IF IT'S ONLY CERTAIN ZONES, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, I THINK THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT REALLY TRULY NEEDS TO BE UPHELD. [2:38:40] **President Meyer:** SO THIS IS A QUASI LEGISLATIVE ITEM. THIS IS MAKING A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY FOR WHAT NEW ORDINANCES THEY SHOULD IMPLEMENT. AND IF WE BELIEVED THAT INSTEAD OF THAT, THEY SHOULD JUST CHANGE IT MORE DRAMATICALLY, THAT WOULD BE THE TYPE OF THING WE COULD DO. I PERSONALLY DON'T SUPPORT THAT BECAUSE I THINK IN SOME AREAS THE BILLBOARDS REALLY ADD A LOT. LIKE IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, THE THEATER DISTRICT, I THINK IS A GREAT AREA HAVING MORE MODEL OF TIMES SQUARE, I THINK THAT CAN ADD TO A NEIGHBORHOOD. ALSO I THINK THE CULTURAL CORRIDORS ARE A GREAT IDEA. AND THIS PROPOSAL IS A START NOT AN END FOR THINGS LIKE THAT. THE FUTURE COUNCIL COULD EXPAND FURTHER. I THINK THEY WOULD WANT TO BE MORE SPECIFIC, LIKE THEY'D WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT MAKES IT SO THAT WHATEVER SIGNAGE HAPPENS IN THE CULTURAL CORRIDORS MATCHES THOSE CORRIDORS. BUT I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA AND I'M GLAD PEOPLE BROUGHT IT UP TONIGHT. COMMISSIONER SHEPPARD. [2:39:43] **Commissioner Sheppard:** THANK YOU. THANK YOU, CHAIR MEYER. I'M SYMPATHETIC TO THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY IN GENERAL, THAT THE MORATORIUM MIGHT NEED SOME FURTHER REVIEW THAN JUST FOR YOUR LIVELIHOOD. I'M MORE CONCERNED THAT WE SAW THIS AT COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE SOME WEEKS AGO AND ALL OF YOU ARE SEEING IT FRIDAY AND THIS IS WHAT YOUR LIVELIHOODS DEPEND ON AND I DON'T FIND THAT TO BE AN ACCEPTABLE REVIEW TIME. AND I DON'T THINK THAT MANY OF YOU DO EITHER. I WOULD PERSONALLY BE IN FAVOR OF CONTINUING THIS. I UNDERSTAND THE URGENCY, BUT I UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO COMMUNICATE IN ADVANCE. [2:40:18] **President Meyer:** ANY OTHER -- COMMISSIONER BAXLEY? [2:40:23] **Vice President Baxley:** THANK YOU, CHAIR. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER SHEPPARD. I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. I THINK FOR ME THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS THE PAUSE. I THINK HAVING, JUST GIVING THE DYNAMIC SITUATION OF WHERE WE ARE IN THE POLITICAL CYCLE AND AS STAFF HAS STATED, THERE'S LITTLE RISK BECAUSE THE CURRENT LEGISLATION IS PRETTY MUCH STAGNATED. SO I THINK KEEPING THE SYSTEM AS IS UNTIL WE COME UP WITH A NEW ONE MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE. SO FOR ME, I'M IN SUPPORT OF MOVING THIS FORWARD, BUT I'D LIKE TO REMOVE THE TEMPORARY PAUSE AS PART OF IT. [2:41:12] **President Meyer:** OKAY. FOR THAT MOTION, WHAT WOULD BE THE RECOMMENDED LANGUAGE? **Vice President Baxley:** I WOULD NEED TO PULL THE TEXT UP IN FRONT OF ME, BUT I BELIEVE WE WOULD WANT TO STRIKE THAT PARTICULAR PORTION. SO SARA, IF YOU WANT TO MAYBE OR I GUESS I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD WANT AN ACTUAL MOTION TO READ ON THAT? I KNOW WE WOULDN'T WANT A MOTION ON THAT. BUT IF A MOTION WERE TO COME FORWARD, HOW BEST TO ARTICULATE THE LANGUAGE SO THAT IT'S CLEAR IN THE DRAFT? [2:41:54] **Sara Roman:** THANK YOU, PRESIDENT MEYER, COMMISSIONERS. SO THIS—I JUST WANT TO REITERATE THAT—THIS PAUSE IS TRULY EXPECTED TO BE A PAUSE. WE HAVE WHAT WE FEEL IS ONE OPPORTUNITY TO REDEVELOP OUR REGULATIONS ONCE THIS CREDIT SYSTEM IS EXPIRED. THE WAY THAT THE ORDINANCE IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN, THE PAUSE THAT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR NEW BILLBOARDS AND CONVERSIONS IS TIED IN WITH THE EXPIRATION OF THE CREDIT SYSTEM. AND SO I WANT TO ENSURE THAT IF WE MOVE FORWARD WITH ANY SORT OF ALLOWANCE FOR EXISTING BUSINESSES THAT WE ARE COGNIZANT OF THE FACT THAT IF THE CREDIT SYSTEM EXPIRES, BUT WE ALLOW NEW BILLBOARDS, WE WILL ABSOLUTELY SEE A PROLIFERATION OF NEW BILLBOARDS WHERE CREDITS ARE NOT ALLOWED AND ALSO OR EXCUSE ME WHERE CREDITS ARE NOT REQUIRED AND ALSO WHERE CREDITS ARE REQUIRED. [2:42:52] **Sara Roman:** SO I THINK WE WOULD LIKE A HAND IN SHAPING LANGUAGE THAT SEPARATES THOSE TWO ISSUES. IF WE WERE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ALLOWING EXISTING BILLBOARDS TO CONVERT, I THINK WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THE PAUSE REMAIN IN PLACE AND TO GIVE US A YEAR OR WHATEVER IT ENDS UP BEING—THAT'S A QUESTION FOR POLICYMAKERS ABOUT HOW LONG THEY WOULD LIKE TO SPEND AT THE LEGISLATURE—BUT TO GIVE US THAT TIME TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER NEW SYSTEM COMES INTO PLACE IS EFFECTIVE AND ALLOWS US TO ACHIEVE OUR GOALS. [2:43:33] **Sara Roman:** THE OTHER THING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO NOTE IS THAT THE SUCCESS AROUND DISTRICTS LIKE DENVER AND SAN ANTONIO IS THAT THEY DON'T ALLOW BILLBOARDS ANYWHERE ELSE. AND SO IF WE ARE LOOKING AT A TRUE REVENUE GENERATION MODEL, WE NEED TO HAVE SOME BUILT UP DEMAND. AND RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF DEMAND FOR NEW BILLBOARDS AS WE'VE SEEN FROM MEDIA COMPANIES THAT HAVE COME TO THE CITY AND ASKED TO HAVE MORE PROLIFERATION OF BILLBOARDS. BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE EXTENT OF THE DEMAND THAT WE HAVE SEEN IN DENVER OR SAN ANTONIO WHERE THE ANSWER REALLY IS YOU BUY INTO THIS PROGRAM THAT THE CITY HAS CREATED OR YOU DON'T HAVE A BILLBOARD. AND SO THE PAUSE ALSO GIVES US THE ABILITY TO CREATE SOME DEMAND AND SOME BUY IN FOR THIS NEW PROGRAM. I'LL OPEN IT UP IF MEG HAS ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD. BUT THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT I THINK THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO ENSURE THAT IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOME SORT OF TIME LIMIT ON THIS MORATORIUM, WE TRULY DO BELIEVE THAT IT IS A PAUSE. WE HAVE NO INTENTION OF GETTING RID OF BILLBOARDS BUT WE WANT TO BE VERY, VERY THOUGHTFUL ABOUT HOW WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THEM. THAT WE WOULD SEPARATE THAT PROVISION FROM THE EXPIRATION OF THE CREDIT SYSTEM. [2:44:50] **President Meyer:** YOU ANTICIPATED THE QUESTION I WAS GOING TO ASK WHICH IS WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF TIME LIMIT SO THAT WE REVERT TO THE STATUS QUO ANTE IF WE DON'T SUCCEED? DO YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDATION FOR HOW LONG THAT WOULD BE? [2:45:04] **Sara Roman:** PRESIDENT MEYER, SO ARTS AND CULTURAL AFFAIRS PROCESS THROUGH THE CULTURESCAPE IS TAKING PLACE CURRENTLY. A LEGISLATIVE SESSION WOULD BE NEXT YEAR IN 2026. AND SO AT A MINIMUM WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT LIKELY A YEAR TO SEE THE RESULT OF THAT LEGISLATIVE SESSION AND THEN TO CREATE AN AMENDMENT. BUT IF POLICYMAKERS WERE INTERESTED IN CONTINUING TO PURSUE THAT AMENDMENT, THERE ARE CERTAINLY POLICYMAKERS AT THE LEGISLATURE WHO ARE ANTI-BILLBOARD SO WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE MAY NEED SOME TIME AT THE LEGISLATURE TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. OUR CITY POLICYMAKERS COULD LOOK FOR MULTIPLE LEGISLATIVE CYCLES. SO I DON'T KNOW THAT I COULD SAY THAT IT WOULD ONLY BE A YEAR OR IT WOULD ONLY BE TWO YEARS. BUT WE ARE CERTAINLY COGNIZANT OF THE FACT THAT WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE A PAUSE THAT HAS NO END. YOU COULD SAY A YEAR, YOU COULD SAY TWO YEARS. BUT STAFF DOESN'T HAVE THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IN TERMS OF WHAT THE LEGISLATIVE AGENDA WOULD BE FOR OUR POLICYMAKERS AT THE CITY. [2:46:19] **Vice President Baxley:** SARA, I FEEL LIKE THE PINCH POINT IS MORE ABOUT—IT'S NOT NEW BILLBOARDS, IT'S THE ABILITY TO MODIFY EXISTING. SO WHERE DOES THE STAFF STAND ON A SLIGHT MODIFICATION, WHERE ALTERATIONS WOULD BE ALLOWED BUT NO NEW BILLBOARDS WOULD BE ALLOWED? [2:46:36] **Sara Roman:** YEAH, THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. I DO THINK IT GOES BACK TO HAVING SOME OF THIS DEMAND AND ALLOWING TIME FOR US TO CREATE THIS NEW SYSTEM. SO I THINK THAT WE HAVE BUILT IN SOME QUESTION AND SOME INSECURITY WITH EXISTING BILLBOARD OWNERS. AND IF WE MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT A PAUSE FOR CONVERSIONS OR FOR NEW BILLBOARDS WE WILL LIKELY SEE A LOT OF CONVERSIONS PRIOR TO A NEW SYSTEM COMING INTO PLACE. SO I THINK WE WILL HAVE THE LACK OF THE BENEFIT OF THE PENT UP DEMAND. AND I THINK WE WILL HAVE A LACK OF BUY IN FROM STAKEHOLDERS WHO DON'T NEED TO ENTER INTO THIS SYSTEM BECAUSE THEY WERE ALREADY ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THEIR CONVERSIONS. I THINK A PAUSE IS HELPFUL FOR THE CITY TO ACHIEVE THESE GOALS AND HAVING SOME ALIGNMENT WITH OUR DOWNTOWN VISIONING. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? **Vice President Baxley:** I THINK SO. **Sara Roman:** STAFF WOULD PREFER THAT THERE BE AN OVERALL PAUSE. **Vice President Baxley:** YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE ANGST AROUND THAT? **Sara Roman:** I CAN, ABSOLUTELY. [2:48:00] **Meg McMahn (Staff):** CHAIR MEYER, COMMISSIONER BAXLEY, MEG McMAHN, PLANNING DIRECTOR. I WANT TO REITERATE BECAUSE IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT MODIFICATIONS TO EXISTING BILLBOARDS. THAT IS SOMETHING WE COULD MAYBE TALK ABOUT A CARVE OUT THAT WOULD ALLOW SOME MORE FLEXIBILITY AROUND MODIFICATIONS AND WHAT THAT MEANS. I THINK THE PRIMARY CONCERN IS AROUND THE DIGITIZATION, BUT THE SIZE, THE ANGLE, HOW IT'S CONFIGURED—I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY LOTS OF AREAS THAT WE COULD MAYBE FIND SOME LANGUAGE THAT ALLOWS FOR SOME MODIFICATIONS THAT MEET SOME OF THE CONCERNS FROM EXISTING BILLBOARD OWNERS. REALLY I THINK THE PRIMARY ISSUES ARE NEW BILLBOARDS AND THEN THE DIGITIZATION. [2:48:33] **Vice President Baxley:** THANKS, MEG. I THINK ANY TWEAKING WOULD BE HELPFUL. OBVIOUSLY PROBABLY THE BIG PUSH IS TOWARDS DIGITIZATION. I THINK THAT'S COMING QUICKLY. AND SO I GUESS IF WE'RE—THE OTHER LEVER WOULD BE TO REALLY TRY TO PUT A TIMEFRAME ON THIS. I THINK IT FEELS TOO OPEN ENDED. LIKE CAN WE GIVE OURSELVES A TARGET DATE AND HIT IT AS OPPOSED TO A LITTLE SQUISH THERE. CAN WE ESTABLISH A DATE? AND SAY BY A CERTAIN DATE WE WILL HAVE THIS RECTIFIED? I THINK THAT MAY BE HELP SOME OF THE CONCERNS. IT'S JUST TOO OPEN ENDED, RIGHT? [2:49:10] **Meg McMahn:** CHAIR MEYER, COMMISSIONER BAXLEY, I THINK PERHAPS STAFF MIGHT REQUEST A LITTLE TIME TO THINK THROUGH THAT AND TALK WITH OUR POLICYMAKERS ABOUT WHAT THEIR INTENTIONS ARE. WE REALLY HEARD CLEARLY FROM THE POLICYMAKERS THEY WERE NOT INTERESTED IN SEEING A PROLIFERATION OF NEW BILLBOARDS AND THEY WERE VERY INTERESTED IN THIS LEGISLATIVE SOLUTION AROUND FINDING OPPORTUNITIES FOR REVENUE GENERATION. AND SO UNDER THAT GUIDANCE, I THINK we need to understand like how important is that: if we aren't successful at the legislature for example, does that mean there's no interest in this anymore? Does it mean that there's interest just without the revenue component. And I think we have to have those discussions to really understand what the priorities are. BUT I THINK GENERALLY OUR UNDERSTANDING IS THERE'S A STRONG INTEREST IN PURSUING THIS LEGISLATIVE FIX AND MOVING FORWARD WITH AN EXPANSION OF OUR CURRENT BILLBOARD ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT IN TERMS OF ITS FOOTPRINT. AND WE'RE JUST ASKING FOR SOME TIME TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT THE SPECIFICS AROUND THAT. [2:50:16] **President Meyer:** SO I'M PERSUADED TO NOT ALTER THE PAUSE, BUT MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO CONSIDER EVEN IF IT'S LIKE A FIVE YEAR TIMELINE WHICH WOULD GIVE ENOUGH TIME TO GO THROUGH THE EXISTING SESSION AND TWO ELECTION CYCLES AFTER THAT, AT LEAST THEN IT WOULDN'T BE COMPLETELY OPEN ENDED. COMMISSIONER CONLEY. [2:50:58] **Commissioner Conley:** THANK YOU. A FEW THINGS. THANK YOU FOR THIS WORK. I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT IT. I THINK THAT ANY WAY THAT WE ACTIVATE SPACES IS A BENEFIT TO OUR CITY. AND WE ARE VERY MUCH IN THE BUSINESS AT THE COUNTY, THE CITY, MULTIPLE JURISDICTIONS LOOKING AT REVENUE GENERATION TOOLS. WE DO NOT HAVE ANY OTHER OPTIONS BUT LOOKING AT NEW SOURCES OF REVENUE. SO I SUPPORT THAT. FOR THE CONVERSATIONS AROUND DATES, THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION IN 2026 ENDS MAY 18, 2026. THAT'S A DATE. IF WE WANT TO EXTEND THAT, WE CAN LOOK UP THE DATE FOR THE END OF THE 2027 -- BUT I DO THINK A PAUSE IS NOT A PAUSE IF THERE IS NO END DATE. SO I SUPPORT LOOKING AT A DATE RIGHT NOW. [2:51:50] **Commissioner Conley:** I ALSO WANT TO CALL OUT ONE OF THE TESTIFIERS MENTIONED PUBLIC PAINTED SIGNS. I LOVE THAT AND I REMEMBER SAYING THAT AT THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. THAT IS AN EXEMPTION. I WANT TO JUST CONFIRM WITH YOU THAT PAINTED BUSINESS SIGNS, LIKE PAINTED ON THE SIDE OF A BUILDING, IS EXEMPT FROM ALL OF THAT MEANING THAT IS A SIGN THAT CAN BE DONE AND CONTINUE? CONFIRMED? [2:52:13] **Sara Roman:** YES, COMMISSIONER CONLEY, THAT IS CORRECT FOR ON-PREMISES SIGNS. SO A PAINTED WALL SIGN WOULD NEED TO BE RELATED TO A BUSINESS ON THE PROPERTY. **Commissioner Conley:** THAT'S GREAT AND I LOVE THAT. I ALSO AM INTERESTED IN—ALONG LAKE STREET WE'VE GOT SOME BEAUTIFUL MURALS. WE'VE GOT A BEAUTIFUL CORRIDOR. AND THERE'S BILLBOARDS AND THERE'S ALL OF THE THINGS. AND LAKE STREET IS A CULTURAL CORRIDOR. AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING TO ACTIVATE LAKE STREET FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND SO I JUST WONDER HOW THE FOCUS ON DOWNTOWN WILL PLAY WELL THROUGHOUT THE CITY OR PLAY IN OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY. WE HEARD SOMEONE TALK ABOUT SMALL BUSINESSES OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN AND WHAT THOSE RAMIFICATIONS COULD BE. SO PERHAPS YOU COULD SPEAK TO THAT NOW JUST SO THAT I HAVE CLARIFICATION ON HOW THIS MIGHT IMPACT NEW BUSINESSES. WE'RE STILL REBUILDING LAKE STREET FIVE YEARS SINCE IT BURNED. AND SO AS WE REBUILD, THERE'S AN INFLUX OF PUBLIC ART, THERE'S AN INFLUX OF PAINTED SIGNS ON BUILDINGS, THERE'S AN INFLUX OF NEW BILLBOARDS COMING UP BECAUSE THERE'S NEW BUSINESSES THAT WILL BE BUILT OR ARE ABOUT TO BE FINISHED. [2:53:16] **Commissioner Conley:** SO IF YOU COULD SPEAK TO ME ABOUT HOW THIS, THE LANGUAGE FOR THE SIGN ORDINANCE EXPANDS FROM DOWNTOWN AND THEN TWO, I WOULD PROPOSE A DATE OF THE END OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION. AND THE REASON I SAY THAT, MAY 18TH, THE REASON I SAY THAT IS BECAUSE AT THE COUNTY WE'RE WORKING RIGHT NOW TO FIND PEOPLE TO CARRY BILLS. WE ARE WORKING THROUGH OUR IGR TEAMS TO CRAFT OUR PLATFORM FOR THE STATE WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ASKING FOR. AND IT'S REVENUE GENERATION TOOLS AMONG A HOST OF OTHER THINGS. SO CONVERSATIONS ARE HAPPENING NOW ON WHO COULD CARRY WHAT. IT ALL DEPENDS ON RELATIONSHIPS THAT YOU HAVE WITH YOUR OTHER POLICYMAKERS. SO I WOULD RECOMMEND THE END OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION OR A YEAR FROM THAT END DATE AS POSSIBLE DATES TO MAKE IT A TRUE PAUSE AND NOT AN OPEN ENDED ONE. AND THEN ANY CLARIFICATION YOU CAN GIVE ME ON HOW THIS IMPACTS OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN. THANK YOU. [2:54:10] **Sara Roman:** THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER CONLEY. IF WE ARE LOOKING AT A SPECIFIC DATE, STAFF WOULD LIKE SOME TIME FOLLOWING THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION TO CRAFT THESE REGULATIONS. SO I THINK A YEAR FOLLOWING THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR US IN TERMS OF DOING THIS ENGAGEMENT WORK. BUT ABSOLUTELY OUR IGR STAFF IS IN CONVERSATION WITH NOT ONLY OTHER COMMUNITIES BUT WITH STATE LEGISLATURE ABOUT WHO COULD POSSIBLY BRING THIS FORWARD AND IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S TENABLE AT THE STATE LEGISLATURE. IN TERMS OF BROADENING THE SCOPE OF THIS AMENDMENT, WE WOULD BE LOOKING FOR DIRECTION FROM POLICYMAKERS, SO FROM THE MAYOR'S OFFICE OR FROM CITY COUNCIL TO LOOK AT SPECIFIC AREAS. THE DIRECTION OF THIS SPECIFIC ITEM WAS FOCUSED ON DOWNTOWN. BUT ABSOLUTELY STAFF WOULD LOVE TO SEE—IF DIRECTED FROM OUR POLICYMAKERS—SOME ADDITIONAL THOUGHT GIVEN TO OUR OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY THAT COULD ALSO USE ATTENTION REGARDING SIGNS. [2:55:25] **President Meyer:** WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION? **Vice President Baxley:** I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO FORWARD THIS WITH THE ADDITIONAL CLAUSE OF A DATE TIME FRAME BY A YEAR AFTER THE END OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION 2026. **President Meyer:** SO LIKE JUNE OF 27 MAYBE? **Vice President Baxley:** YEAH. **President Meyer:** OKAY. DOES THAT LANGUAGE WORK, DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WOULD MEET THAT INTENT, KIMBERLY? [2:56:07] **Kimberly Holien:** I THINK WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT LANGUAGE. **Vice President Baxley:** SO JUST TO CONFIRM THE ACTUAL DATE WOULD BE JUNE 1, 2027. **Kimberly Holien:** ON OR BEFORE JUNE 1, 2027? OKAY. **President Meyer:** DID YOU SECOND THAT? **Commissioner Conley:** I WILL. BUT I WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE MOTION: IT'S TO APPROVE AS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF WITH THE DATE OF ON OR BEFORE JUNE OF 2027? **Vice President Baxley:** CORRECT, COMMISSIONER. **Commissioner Conley:** I'LL SECOND THAT. [2:56:55] **President Meyer:** OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR. IS THERE MORE DISCUSSION ON IT? ALL RIGHT, NOT SEEING ANY, SO I'LL ASK THE CLERK TO CALL THE ROLL. [2:57:07] **Clerk:** COMMISSIONER CONLEY. **Commissioner Conley:** AYE. **Clerk:** FORNEY. **Commissioner Forney:** AYE. **Clerk:** GORDON. **Commissioner Gordon:** AYE. **Clerk:** SHEPPARD. **Commissioner Sheppard:** AYE. **Clerk:** WAGNER. **Commissioner Wagner:** AYE. **Clerk:** VICE PRESIDENT BAXLEY. **Vice President Baxley:** AYE. **Clerk:** AND PRESIDENT MEYER. [2:57:41] **President Meyer:** AYE. **Clerk:** THERE ARE SEVEN AYES. **President Meyer:** ALL RIGHT. THAT IS ADOPTED AND FORWARDED TO THE COUNCIL. THAT CONCLUDES OUR BUSINESS FOR THE EVENING. WE HAVE NO COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE THIS WEEK, NO AGENDA ITEMS. OUR NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING WILL BE NOVEMBER 17TH. ARE THERE ANY OTHER UPDATES FROM STAFF OR COMMISSIONERS? [2:58:06] **Kimberly Holien:** JUST ONE QUICK UPDATE. IT IS AN ELECTION YEAR SO TYPICALLY OUR CALENDAR FOLLOWS THE CITY COUNCIL CALENDAR, BUT BECAUSE THEY WON'T BE ADOPTING ONE UNTIL JANUARY, WE'RE GOING TO BRING A PARTIAL CALENDAR TO THE 11/17 MEETING. IT WILL INCLUDE DATES FOR JANUARY AND FEBRUARY, AND THEN WE'LL BRING A FULL CALENDAR TO YOU HOPEFULLY END OF JANUARY, EARLY FEBRUARY TO ADOPT FOR THE REMAINDER OF 2026. **President Meyer:** ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU EVERYONE. WE ARE ADJOURNED.