will take place on ree's Final Four Friday at the stadium good afternoon welcome to today's meeting before starting the formal meeting we will first convene the meeting of the Verdin Community facilities District Board of Governors I would now like to call to order the February 21st 2024 Verdin Community facilities District Board of Directors meeting will the clerk call the role board member on sarry here board member wado here board member Hajj Washington here here board member O'Brien here board member Pastor here board member Robinson here board member wearing Vice chair Stark here chairwoman giko here is there a motion for the appointment of board workers yes I move to approve item three for the appointment of board workers for the February 28th 2024 V verine cfd election second roll call i'ms Sari yes wado yes hjj Washington yes O'Brien yes Pastor yes Robinson yes wearing Stark yes Gayo yes passes 90 the meeting is now adjourned I'll now turn to fire captain Troy holtorf for today's invocation father thank you for who you are thank you for being a giver thank you for your son who did for us what we couldn't do for ourselves and thank you for the cross thank you for your triumph over sin and death at that cross and thank you for giving us life Lord we are so thankful May these truths humble us before you now you are The Giver of all gifts I thank you for the gifts of our city leaders our First Responders our families our spouses our children thank you for the most basic but necessary gifts like food water and shelter thank you for every breath and every heartbeat that you give us Lord may we remember what you have done so that we can be reminded of your faithfulness as we do what needs to be done today Lord we thank you for today's meeting ask you to bless it would you direct our words and actions that they may reflect your character that they may be full of grace and truth God you are a shield to those who walk with Integrity you guard the paths of the just and you protect those who are faithful to you help us to be those kinds of people and may we impact this city in a way that honors you Lord I pray this in the name of the faithful one Jesus Christ amen thank you Captain holtorf and thank you to councilwoman pestor for leading Us in the pledge we'll Now call to order the formal meeting of the Phoenix City Council will the clerk call the role councilwoman Ansari here councilwoman wado here councilwoman Hodge Washington here councilwoman O'Brien here councilwoman Pastor here councilman Robinson here councilman wearing vice mayor Stark here mayor goo here Mario baras is with us and Elsie dwarte to provide Spanish interpretation would you guys introduce yourselves yes mayor thank you once again my name is Mario wahas and together with my colleague Elie DTE will be serving as today's Spanish interpreters I'll now take a moment to introduce ourselves to our Spanish speaking audience thank you mayor thank you would the city clerk please read the 24-hour paragraph the titles of the following ordinance and resolution numbers on the agenda were available to the public at least 24 hours prior to this council meeting and therefore may be read by title or agenda item only ordinances number g723 33 and s505 76 through 50 615 would the City attorney please explain the role of public comment yes thank you mayor members of the public may speak for up to two minutes to comment on agenda items comments must be related to the agenda item and the action being considered by the council General comments that go beyond the scope of the agenda item must be made in the citizen comment session at the end of the agenda the city council and staff cannot discuss or comment on matters related to pending investigations claims or litigation additionally any member of the public who appears before Council in their capacity as a lobbyist must as required by Phoenix city code disclose this fact before addressing Council the city code requires speakers to present their comments in a respectful and courteous manner profane language threats or personal attacks on members of the public council members or staff are not allowed the person who violates these rules will will lose the opportunity to continue to speak thank you councilwoman gado do you have a motion on item one motion to approve item one second all those in favor please say I I minutes are approved boards and commissions item two vice mayor do you have a motion yes I move to approve mayor and city council boards and commission nominations second we have a motion and a second all those in favor say I I any oppose nay passes unanimously we will now swear in our new Commissioners thank you so much for serving your City please raise your right hand I state your name do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States the United States and the Constitution and laws of the State of Arizona that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same I bear true faith and Al to the same and defend them against all enemies foreign and domestic and that I will Faith faithfully and impartially discharge the duties of the office of discharge the duties of the office of State your office committee M according to the best of my ability so help me God congratulations thank you so much for your [Applause] service thank you so much to our commissioners the City of Phoenix provides an advisory role on liquor licenses to the State of Arizona vice mayor do we have a motion on the liquor licenses I move to approve items three through 20 second comments all those in favor say I I I I any oppose nay passes unanimously city clerk are we ready for ordinances resolutions new business and planning and zoning yes mayor vice mayor do we have a motion yes I move to approve items 21 through 81 accept the following items 45 49 78 79 noting that item 81 is an add-on and excluding these additional items for virtual public comment item 80 and can the clerk confirm if there are any other items that should be excluded for in-person public comment yes mayor vice mayor also excluding items 28 30 58 63 and 64 that's items 28 30 58 63 and 64 second we have a motion and a second any comments roll call Brian sorry I'm sari yes Wavo yes hjj Washington yes O'Brien yes Pastor Robinson yes wearing Stark yeso yes passes 80 we next go to item 28 which is American Rescue plan act February 2024 real allocation vice mayor I move to approve item 28 second a motion in a second this is a important allocation focused on additional support services for those experiencing homelessness in our community we have two public comments we'll begin with Leslie followed by Jeff hello okay there are many projects listed in this description of agenda items that are already multi-millions of dollars in budget shortfall and need more funding what are you going to what are you going to do when the funds for these projects are no longer available and run out in 2026 that's a very legitimate question are you going to raise taxes to spend the money to continue these projects do these projects have the goal of getting rid of homelessness these types of programs hide homelessness by taking those who are homeless and putting them in taxpayer funded projects little side note I'm going to keep saying it and saying it and saying it there needs to be Port tootes put down at medicine Madison there should be Porta poot set on each side of this building until the Homeless Problem goes away it needs to be something that you actually show that actually you have compassion for you know the prayer that the gentleman prayed earlier was beautiful I really appreciate how I can tell he's actually talking to our father above the problem is he said thank you for the food and then he said shelter many people don't have shelter they don't even have a place where they can go to the bathroom without being afraid that they'll be exposed or you know they can go to jail for indecent exposure so when we're talking about homelessness this money $15 million to various programs yet I don't see a single Porta pot over on Madison I don't see a single Porta pot that's outside this facility that's an easy fix doesn't take much money and I ask that you you really really make the necessary things for them to at least be able to use the bathroom with some decency thank you Jeff will be our final speaker mayor council Happy New Year I'm sorry I haven't been here lately I've been super busy and out of town sometimes but um there's 15 million dollar of the um reallocation that is supposed to go towards some sort of covid-19 Health Care funding a new study just came out a couple days ago it's the largest study so far of over 99 million people it's almost 100 million people and it affirmed that there are um increases of Health adverse health effects from the covid-19 vaccination this was re uh reported by the hill Fox News all sorts of news sources this is legit this is not a conspiracy theory these conditions include gillain bar syndrome Bells py convulsions myocarditis and pericarditis the study was conducted by the CDC and the Department of Health and Human Services several of the authors who even uh produced this study actually admitted that they potentially have conflicts of interest so they're admitting these problems and then they also say that they've been funded by uh bi biopharmaceutical companies such as gileade uh gileade uh ABY fizer and Glasco Smith Klein so I would ask that an amendment is made to this to um preclude our tax dollars from funding covid-19 vaccinations if that is not made I would highly encourage you to vote no and I I am also very concerned about in the future um the federal funds for these monies is going to run out in 2026 so what's going to happen thank you thank you councilman wearing thank you mayor uh Leslie did ask a a question one that I was going to ask myself so and Jeff and Lori maybe uh you can discuss a little bit we've talked about this I think in my office but I don't know if we've we've talked about it here like what to do in the future this is obviously an expanding problem we've talked about it here subcommittees and so forth It's not sustainable I think everybody agrees on that so what to do mayor members of the council councilman wearing that's a fair and valid question um you and I have talked about that I think I've talked about it with pretty much each and every one of you um as you know um our resources are tight I talked about that in September and we'll be talking about it again with you next week so we are trying to be good stewards of the taxpayers dollars obviously that's that's the the what we try to do with the budget that we present to you and the forecast that we'll be working on next week what we're doing with this item here though is over the last few years coming out of covid with the arpa dollars and trying to clean up the area down the street around the campus what we've we've stood up a lot of properties to really help and engage the folks that that are unsheltered right now and rather than trying to move those things or transition those things into the general fund what we're doing is using this funds to give us a Glide path so we still have more time to make those decisions and so we're trying to use these reallocated dollars um to get us through at least through June of 25 which is what most of this reallocation does we'll do another reallocation over the summer and hopefully we pick up a couple more months um we will be talking to you next week about what our budget looks like for the next three fiscal years um but the reality is is obviously at some point something's got to give you know you and I talked about that we don't have all the money in the world and we did lose about $1 130 million to the state through residential rental tax as well as the urban Revenue sharing or income tax and our expenses are going up and so when you're trying to balance a budget unlike the federal government we can't run a deficit we have to have a balanced budget every year so we will have to make tough decisions and that's going to be a lot of conversations with you and the other council members and with our community as we move forward in our budget process processes the next couple of years thank you mayor Jeff it's sort of been an intractable problem I would suggest one thing is that we can't let 7,000 people dictate the budget the multi-billion dollar budget for 1.6 million so if something's got to give and something's got to change 7,000 should start having to adjust more to us and our desires than the other way around it's gotten way out of hand I've said at other meetings and Public Safety citizens won't stand for it for those who say oh the big crime is trespassing or something that's small potatoes it's not small potatoes if somebody's going to the bathroom in your yard right outside your kid' window and that happens to people all the time in the city I get the calls businesses too so at some point I don't know what these court cases that are heading towards the Supreme Court or in the Supreme Court now who knows what they'll say but I do think we're going to have to adjust our policies because we're not going to keep pumping money into this unless we're never going to build another Park and we're never going to hire another police officer and we're never going to expand fire St you know build another fire station and none of that is realistic and it is impossible to explain to the vast majority of Voters who aren't going to want to hear it at some point so I would suggest we have to re-evaluate what we're doing obviously we can't knowingly break the law but we need to make sure that people understand that this is not a sustainable course that we've been on we've let it get way out of hand um as a councel not talking to staff here to the council and we need to make some very needed changes I I just I would say to our staff too if you're sending people out in the field to work with the homeless take some job applications we have tons of openings if you're out protesting or whatever even right now why aren't you working to at least try to get yourself back where you want to and I've read one time in the paper too many or heard from our officers when I have personally made calls about people sleeping at shopping centers or what have you where the person's like oh no no I'm good and they just move along you're not good you know how I know because you're sleeping at the Paradise Valley Mall at six o'clock on a Sunday morning that's how I know so that's not an acceptable answer or one that we should accept as a society if you need help we'll provide help but the budgets for this are just way out of whack Leslie's right we can't keep doing it so and I know you know that too so we we've got to the point where we're going to have to make some decisions and I don't think the decision could be we're just going to throw more money at this and nothing else it's going to have to be something needs to change and I don't think all the rest of us have to change our Behavior to be quite so accommodating thank you Cilan pestor yes thank you um I would like to thank staff to really uh putting a conscious effort as to where uh the remaining arpa dollars need to go and where where our needs are um and be able to at least continue uh to serve in this purpose uh because there's a need um and it's okay to disagree on how we approach this but the bottom line is is uh people need a safe environment people need to be safe people need to have shelter be fed water all the needs that we need um and one of the items I don't think people purposely say I want to be homeless I want to be on the street I want to have a drug problem I have a substance abuse I don't think people intentionally say this is the behavior I want to have however the way our society is is is we are have to shift a little bit because our society is uh uh if you do the right thing you things will happen to you in Great Space well there are some people that have done the right thing but also fallen off and so as government and as a rich country where we shouldn't have homelessness and where we should have uh all the amenities for those that are in need um if we have the ability at least to assist and help currently then I think it's a responsibility of us to do it finally we will be at a point where where there will be a difficult discussion and there will be a difficult discussion because we will not have the money that we have today and it's not just the city's discussion it's a Statewide discussion it's also a discussion nationally on what we do so I want to commend you for at least trying to solve a bigger problem Beyond us and what I would like to ask is that we really as a council or Force the council to really come up with a plan on how we can sustain elements that we see are working for the future and what what what we're going to have to give up so those are my comments um appreciate what you have done thank you thank you R councilwoman hun Washington thank you mayor I too wanted to tell staff I think they did a great job in allocating the resources and the top priorities I think each district would agree if it's not your number one issue it is probably your top three issue is the homeless population ation and how do we address them I think by extending the time frame through June of 2025 you are allowing us the city council and the staff to come up with a pro a process that will work for the mass majority it will give us the time as council member uh Pastor mentioned it is not just for the city to deal with this it would give us a time to reach out to more of our regional Partners as well as the state to address this issue we have to it's an issue that was going to require everyone's input I wanted to also so asked Jeff if you can clarify that these funds are for lack of a better word use it or lose it funds and that these funds are earmarked for specific purposes so it's um if you can address that a little bit for me mayor members of council councilwoman hjge Washington you sound like you worked in B&R for a little time use it or lose it um no the the reality is yes these are federal funds that were given to us as part of our allocation through the American Rescue plan act fund um and so we have until June of 20 or December of 26 to have all of these funds fully expended and there's actually other key critical time points in that plan we have to have them all allocated and obligated by the end of this this fiscal year our plan has been largely aggressive just like we did with the corona Relief Fund the coronavirus Relief Fund we actually close that Grant out a year ahead our goal is to close this grant out a year ahead of 26 as well and so we've been working with all of our departments and we have been working very diligently at your direction to do these six-month reallocations to sure that we don't lose the money and have to turn it back over to the feds but yes long answer they are use it or lose it funds and thank you I also wanted you to respond or a question I had were based on the speaker comments I don't want speakers to think we're not listening but is any of the funds well one I presume that all of the city funded um shelters or sites have restrooms available for the unsheltered population to use correct they do okay and even for those that choose to use the uh that choose not to enter into our actual facility the safe outdoor space does have appropriate sanitation running water showers so I I just want that to be stated because there are options for those individuals and we have made available um options and some people have chosen not to take to Avail themselves of those options so and also you're notd in so I take that as a yes to my question I kind of answered my own question and then my last one for you is is there any funding that is going towards the implementation or the administration of vaccines as part of this reallocation uh there are not thank you so much councilwoman gado thank you mayor as well just want to thank staff um Lori Jeff I I know we're gonna start going through some really start having some really difficult conversations I definitely encourage everyone um to come to the meeting next week if everyone wants to hear about what is happening um with our budget I think it is a Regional conversation that needs to be had we need to figure out how we reach out to all of our partners just like my colleagues have said you know it's um you know I think we've been able to create some wonderful departments um throughout the city with with the covid dollars um the arpa dollars that we were able to get I think we've dealt with a lot of difficult situations I know you know I mean we were in a meeting yesterday um with Rachel and and with her team and just explaining um to our neighbors on all the progress that we have been able to make I think people um were happy to be able to see that presentation of all the folks that we have been able um to help that it's not just about going out there and offering people a job it takes a lot of work um to be able to get to that point um so we are very happy to see all of the progress that we have made and to all of our partners that have taken these very difficult jobs um when it comes to home lessness I just want to thank everyone um that's out in in the public today that continues to do this this hard work because we know that it's very difficult but as a city we are going to need the support of all of our constituents everyone throughout the city to help us figure out how is it that we are going to maneuver through these challenging times that are coming towards us um when it comes talking about our budget in a year and a half and again I want to thank staff for all of their hard work and we just let to continue to work together thank you ccan andari thank you mayor I want to Echo the sentiments um of several of my colleagues that this uh the the allocations proposed I think are excellent um there's no question that housing and homelessness continues to be the biggest issue facing our city I know um in the past week there have been several pieces of um media coverage and and new stories about um you know concerns around funding and and lack of State support for funding for some of our um most important shelters especially in in the downtown Phoenix area so I'm glad that Phoenix is stepping up to continue to support these shelters we definitely don't want to go backwards um in all of the progress that we've made with what was formerly known as The Zone and across the city um I also want to keep um pressing on the need of regionalization um you know again there's several shelters in the works right now um more in District s and District 8 five uh three others and um I do think that residents are still feeling like we are concentrating shelters in certain districts and want to make sure that um the entire city and the entire region steps up to take on this issue so thank you so much to staff and I um I always want to thank Gina and Rachel and Scott and the entire office of Homeless Solutions for all of the great work that they do thank you thank you roll call I'm sari Yes W yes HUD washhington yes O'Brien yes Pastor yes Robinson yes wearing Stark yes Gayo yes passes 90 we next go to item 30 which is property acquisition for roadway improvements along altav Vista and incus lane from 26th Avenue to 19th Street do we have a motion I move to approve item 30 second a motion and a second uh first Leslie then Jeff well I'm already feeling better about this since Mr wearing let us know that there are no row diets involved in this um so that shifts everything that I came up here for in all fairness uh the gentleman by the name of Jeff very nice gentleman um when he said that um the question was asked about the bathrooms if there's a porta pot if you drive I just filmed down there last week and if you could focus on the street project for this item you may say anything you want in the public comment at the end okay there's no Porta pots over there and it's not outside this building thank you thank you Jeff did you still wish to speak on this one yes okay mayor cancel um so when reading the agenda there isn't very specific details about projects and so I would ask that the council recommend to staff to include things like uh Lanes before project Lanes after project uh so that way we are informed about what the project actually is going to be uh it was very um broad based on uh the location but it didn't give any specifics on what the project was for or what the uh allocation of the funds would be used for other than the acquisition um even though it's tied to a project and so um I think the public needs to know more about what the project is going to be um for these funds that are going to be used thank you thank you councilman wearing uh I guess for Jeff or whoever puts the packets together I mean at least in the packet that I get on page 76 it's got specific addresses right so I mean so the locations are known I mean I assume this is what's going to be affected um it said acquired uh additional acquire additional real property on page 75 um he's right it doesn't it says improvements it doesn't say what the improvements are maybe they could just add like we're going to put in a bike lane or we're going to I mean that's not an unreasonable request it would be like one or two extra words councilman we can work at that yeah thanks I mean I I I assume it's known I don't think it's probably a mystery what's going in there so um and also just just to confirm I mean I got it in writing but just to confirm it's not reducing Lanes of traffic I it is it is not reducing Lanes of traffic Council I think that's I'm good thank you thank you a nice project for district seven and eight roll call anari Yes W yes hjj Washington yes O'Brien yes Pastor yes Robinson yes wearing mayor if I can briefly explain my vote the reward for putting in those extra couple words might be fewer pulls on future agendas so there's something in it for you guys too so uh I Stark yeso yes passes 90 item 44 is the general police towing services contract do we have a motion move uh item 44 uh we have a motion in a second Michael Pearson um item I'm sorry the com Michael's comment was only if necessary so we have already approved 44 so we go to item 45 do we have a motion move to approve item 45 second we have a motion and a second noting that councilwoman pestor will not be participating any comments roll call anari yes wado yes hjj Washington yes O'Brien yes Robinson yes wearing Stark yes GAO yes passes 80 we next go to item 49 and I'll turn to councilwoman HUD Washington thank you mayor um for respect to item number 48 I would like to make a motion uh to approve item 48 in honor of Verna 49 oh I said 49 I'm sorry my apologies item 49 in honor of renell Myers Coleman um it's this year marks 34 years since her pass in but the impact of her Legacy continues to live on throughout our city in in numerous ways including the juneth celebration the Matthew Hensen neighborhood Phoenix Urban League Phoenix Human Resource Commission the St Mary's Food Bank First Institutional Baptist Church and the 7th Avenue Clinic she has been recognized for many of uh recognized for her contribution including the Phoenix women of the woman of the year the Willie L Robinson Memorial human relations award the cacino award women of Distinction Spirit of Arizona and she was inducted into the Arizona women Hall of Fame and we in the city have honored her with the Vernell Coleman recreational center renaming and I'm honored to move for the passage of the um street right outside of Matthew Henson where she spent her life as a a longtime advocate in her honor we have a motion and a second thank you councilwoman we are so excited to be joined today by the um the daughter of our the woman we are recognizing today who is also a 23-year veteran of the City of Phoenix so thank you for your Decades of service as well as Mike Kowski who is like family to the the Coleman family so um if if we could uh recognize Miss Coleman Miller for a few words I just want to say I'm so honored today and I'm so thankful to you May gagos and the city council for this honor this is indeed precious because she was precious and I am just overwhelmed I really appreciate it and this is my adopted brother whom my mother adopted years ago and she loved him dearly and he was right there with her all the time even when I I wasn't there so this is Mike I would just like to say it to everyone that we were all honored to be part of uh the the contributions of this amazing woman in so many different ways she came right from her heart and the power was felt by us and I think I particularly welcome this because this gives us an opportunity to share with young people and other people in the community the story of this woman she started the first food bank in the world when we have youth ambassadors from around the world they're amazed that this started in the projects here in Phoenix so many things that came out of her yeah thank you thank you that's a big deal and uh just so many things that she led the way on she was way ahead of the rest of the country on juneth by the way which people just caught on to that and and so many things we we were blessed to to run her errands and and respond to her calls for action and I I just hope we can sh share with young people in our community that uh sometimes when you come from your heart for the right reason it's worthwhile thank you so much I'm so thankful that she's honored during the month of black history many many contributions to the city and her community thank you she most certainly did it is incredible that one woman helped so many parts from that historic food bank to the um leading many of our our boards at the City of Phoenix so she stepped up and and had about as many leadership roles as anyone has had and and just was instrumental in so many policies whether it be um fighting crime or trying to improve living conditions and uh we will think of her every year when we mark juneth because she really was ahead of us but now thanks to this additional recognition there'll be more times for particularly our young people to learn about uh the great history she was a um very early in trying to develop police community relations including with athletic activities and just making sure that officers and young people got to know each other in more casual settings which is a best practice that we still talk about today as something that works well in in developing safer communities so thank you I want to recognize Valerie Churchwell who has been so instrumental in bringing this forward as well and and making sure this well-deserved recognition happens any additional comments well we'll be very exciting to put up those street signs and and have a chance to continue to celebrate the huge number of Institutions that your mom was a part of roll call I'm sarry Yes W yes Raj Washington yes O'Brien yes Pastor yes yes yes Robinson yes wearing Stark yes cgo yes passes 90 than you to those who doubt one person can make a difference here is clear evidence of what what leader how much leadership matters uh we next go to a streets item item 58 do we have a motion I move to approve item 58 second have a motion and a second we'll go to Leslie and then Jeff that was so encouraging that woman is awesome okay this policy though I mean this item number 58 this is a dystopian policy that could not that should not be implemented connecting cars to infrastructure is more than just sending a warning this is to control Monitor and know every single person who is driving and their cars actually against Constitution too it will be used to automatically pull people over issue tickets automatically and charge people for entering or leaving leaving a specific area like Oxford England does for people who leave their 15minute neighborhoods or like what New York City does for the people entering the city the policy will not prevent people from running red lights nor will it reduce car wrecks or any other safety mechanism until the end goal of this policy is imp implemented where the infrastructure controls the cars through like the little white black black and white cars that drive around and there's nobody in them I'm just asking you guys yeah weo um I'm asking you guys please please please do not pass this this is truly a 15minute city world economic Forum setup for us please do not do not pass this this is not good this goes against the Constitution and it's setting us up to be controlled I I just appeal to you please don't Jeff mayor council to give a little bit more background in detail the infrastructure jobs and um something else act that was passed in 2021 and signed into law requires kill switches to be implemented on all vehicles by 2026 starting in 2026 um representative Thomas Massie had an amendment that died and so it's still federal law that all vehicles are going to have a kill switch California and by the way that kill switch is to pull people over if they have three traffic violations and so like if you swerve into a lane don't come to complete stop on a rightand turn etc etc you will automatically be pulled over because you have three traffic violations this is federal law um the state of California just introduced a bill um in January at the end of January it was introduced by Senator Scott Winer from San Francisco and what this would do is uh require certain vehicles um starting in 2027 to be equipped with an intelligent speed limiter as specified that would limit the speed of the vehicle to 10 miles hour over the speed limit uh obviously this bill would exempt emergency vehicles but what Leslie just talked about is happening this these are laws that are being either inter uced or currently existing and so if you accept this Grant and move forward with connecting our vehicles to the infrastructure um we will lose our ability to have freedom to move it is one of our natural rights that H that that was included in our founding of this country so I I urge you to vote against accepting These funds thank you thank you Jeff does this restrict do we control V Vehicles mayor we do not control vehicles we have no plans to control vehicles thank you uh councilman wearing followed by councilwoman pestor uh so I'm not going to pretend to understand the Technologies involved but I can't help but notice the driverless cars roaming around Phoenix and I suspect that in 20 years we won't be driving the driverless cars will be driving I mean I'd be surprised if that's not the outcome given kind of how this is going so I assume like the weo cars don't run red lights or at least not on purpose I'm kind of assuming there won't be traffic violations in 20 years because we won't actually be driving it'll be a computer doing it for you is that do we have any Intelligence on that uh councilman wearing I'm probably not the right person to answer that question about projecting that far into the future on technology of vehicles what I will tell you is that our intent and purpose with this grant is really to save lives and to not have bad fatalities in in in our intersections and across the city um and to just track that data so that we can make smart decisions as we plan our city moving forward it it it does look like there's a preponderance of electric vehicles and and self- automated Vehicles out there um so it will likely grow I can't say definitively whether or not we won't be driving in 20 years um it it I can't answer that question I wasn't trying to have some fun at your expense but you're old like me if you'll forgive me for saying it so it's within a couple years anyway uh so but but realistically I assume this is a precursor to I mean you have GPS in your car now I have an old car so I don't but when you have GPS in your car that's hooked up to something right I mean that's how I mean already we have GPS not like that's not already happening yeah councilman we have GPS and everything I mean from your watch to your phone it's everywhere so that's the case the pulling over and stuff um you know that's a different thing that frankly I hadn't really consider we we will not be doing that I can tell you definitively that is not part of this grant that is not part of our plan nor our operations I mean we don't even have red light cameras at President we did and we got rid of them correct what five years AG on a bip bipartisan vote too it wasn't just cookie conservatives like me it was corre everybody not everybody but the majority of the council got rid of them five plus years ago so I guess the goal here is to get everything wired for the future that's unknowable as you and I just fleshed out but also like the data about intersections and stuff we're already collecting that just less efficiently is is there anything we'd be collecting here that we're not already collecting we had this discussion about pollution on a different item a few weeks ago well we've been trying to cut down on pollution for about 50 or 60 years so that wasn't new news there might be different ways of doing it than there used to be is there anything in here we're not already doing you know councilman I don't know if there's anything that we're not collecting now that this will allow us to collect I know one thing that this does is again it talked about being able to preempt our our signals for our First Responders so that we again reduce and lessen the number of instances where we hit somebody when we're where we're going which I can interrupt they do that at some intersections some but not all right so if I could interject my understanding of because people ask me this I've asked it myself why aren't our lights all timed out that's because the lights has been explained to me by Street staff are different generations of Lights the street light that was put in last year just like your cell phone I mean hell 30 years ago you didn't even have a cell phone so that's changed a little bit it never occurred to me that a stoplight put in in 1985 is using 1985 technology it doesn't just automatically like you have to click a button and somehow it knows what to do um so it's some stoplights we already do that control correct so that's not new you might be doing more of it with this or a different way but it's the way we're doing it is the same or the excuse me the the reason we're doing it is the same well the other people asked the questions could you ask staff is there anything we're collecting or doing here ask that Allan and Joe to come up do something we didn't do before I'll ask um Alan Stevenson Deputy city manager and Joe to come up Joe Brown is our streets Transportation director mayor and councilman wearing uh we we will not be collecting any new data out of this the data that we will be collecting uh is something that will allow us to be a little more specific with the data we are collecting so for example there are cameras at intersections today but the cameras that would be installed with this would allow for uh for example the police to look at uh some of that data after the fact you reconstruct uh a crash that happened at the intersection the cameras are not F detail enough that you could uh collect anyone's license plate number or the cameras don't turn in the intersection they are just there in the intersection so it's collecting better data but in the same uh types of of data that we collect today so mayor if I can interpret what Alan just said it's cameras in the same spots we already have them but they're better cameras color instead of black and white or whatever the same way security cameras it stores are way better than the grainy footage you used to see um the same way this meeting is taped now in color with individual shots and so forth whereas if you look at the County supervisor meeting where Mary Rose will Cox was shot in 1995 it was like a stationary camera that was in black and white I mean it's like a totally different thing but I bet they still have cameras just like they had them then it's just a better product because products improve like a TV improves or whatever is that a fair way to look at it mayor council wearing that's correct uh this is applying new technology uh to our intersections in order to improve the efficiency and safety of those intersections are we even capable of enacting laws as a city to pull cars over in something or is that would be would that be a state responsibility uh mayor council wearing I would uh would defer to the law department on on that question uh mayor and councel we do not have the ability right now to pull somebody over based on that kind of Technology right that's not what I asked though mayor um I asked would that be something we could set up because I mean stop let's just say stop lights a four-way intersection section kind of works the same way really all across the country most people drive on the right side of the road really across the world but the United States everybody drives on the right side and then they come to a stoplight and it's green and they go and it's red I mean we don't really get to just halfhazard say oh no no in our city it's going to be blue purple and pink those are our colors that's not the way it works so who decides that because they raise a valid point and we should give an answer if we don't have an answer then we need to go find out the answer before we move forward but we should have an answer it shouldn't be that hard well mayor and Council we would have they would we would have to have the appropriate evidence in order to be able to do that just like right now you have to have cameras that take um pictures of who's driving and of the license plate so I'm not familiar enough with the technology or exactly what it's going to capture in order to answer that question of is that going to be able to give us the evidence that we would need in order to site somebody I'm sorry mayor it must be me I'm not making myself clear like if we wanted to use this technology let's just say you could use it for that sounds like it's not even a good enough technology now to do that but if we could do it would we get to decide that yep we decided that's what we want to do or is that a state or maybe even a federal responsibility uh mayor and Council we would have to follow a state statute that would ow us to to make that citation so M mayor that wouldn't even be a decision we get to make to use it the way it was suggested here and people still sounds like the technology isn't even good enough now to do that people still have due process rights councilman Robinson thank you mayor you know I believe maybe alen Stevenson had answered a portion of the question I was going to ask I think it's more for clarification than anything else and I was hoping Chief Sullivan I think he had to leave but the information that is being gathered if someone can answer this question for me it could be either Lori Jeff or someone from the police department the information is going to be gathered will allow the police to be more effective in understanding where driving may be erratic you know unlawful however you want to look at it it'll point to problem areas is this accurate councilman that is that is my understanding and that is what I believe this this technology will do and I just want to be clear it is not capturing individual specific information down to a user and we're not sharing that information with the police department with this technology either and I and I thought that I know that was the case I just wanted to make that point and a followup and this is with my years of experience as a police officer when the police department is aware of a location where there is that type of driving those types of behaviors that could be the causation of accidents Taking Lives what have you it allows them to then deploy their resources to those those locations and deal with them personto person however you want to look at it in a more effective manner which will then in turn change the behavior and hopefully ultimately save people's lives is that a fair assessment of what the data would be used for I've read it I'm pretty sure it is I I'm answering my own question but I just wanted to ask uh Council Robinson you are correct uh no individual data just the uh assembled data that would be looked at from a big picture perspective with streets and police department to look at how best to address any of those issues and that is the way I understood it I just wanted to make that clarification for everyone to understand it because sometimes we have a tendency to hear something and think oh this is we're going down a rabbit hole somewhere and the reality of it all is the data that can be gleaned from um from these locations in a lot of times it will save lives I mean that's the bottom line it will save lives and that's what we have to understand I think we need to keep our eye on the big picture thank you very much thank you we'll go to councilwoman pestor and then councilwoman O'Brien and then back to councilman wearing thank you um been on this Council for I think nine years maybe going on 10 um and we talked about a while back about smart cities how we wanted to become a smart city and how we were going to uh make sure our lighting was where it needed to be to make sure that our signals were where it needed to be so that when we modernized and new technology came in we were able then to compete and be able to do the things that we needed to do um in order to uh have safety across um our city but in particular we were really talking about downtown at a certain point as a testing ground I'm not sure if we're there yet um has the whole Smart City piece been completed or has it even begun mayor councilman uh Pastor as it relates to uh this particular item with uh the the the pilot program that we looked at if we were awarded this grant it would be looking at that leading Edge technology and how that could be effective in our intersections to improve efficiency and safety and then from that standpoint after we would gather that data then we would look at how do we deploy that in what appropriate manner throughout this the larger City context and so uh as part of the this effort it is in that same vein to look at how do we be smarter with technology to be more efficient with our roads and safe with them and that is something that has been implemented over time for example with the the street light or traffic light example uh that was given uh by councilman wearing from traffic lights in you know there were 1985 and the technology wasn't there the technology that is available and streets has been investing in in new traffic lights is helping us achieve a smarter City and that uh impact but it's incremental over time okay I guess my an I want an answer it's a yes or no so your your your the question you asked is about whether or not we have implemented smart city and what I would say is that that is an ongoing process it's not one that we have finished we've started it in many different fronts like Allan talked about streets being one um it there's other areas that we've implemented smart technology so it's a it's a process and we are not 100% at the Finish Line okay and the reason why I'm asking that is because if I read this correctly 300 signalized intersections with cities identify High Injury Network uh High Injury Network while also focusing on underserved communities so my understanding about the smart city is we were going to roll it out in downtown and then we were possibly going to roll it out throughout the city I believe 300 signalized intersections are not in downtown and if you're going to focus on underserved communities I don't think our technology or our lights or maybe they are and I we we get the information to have it uh to be able to implement this piece of technology um but it is what it is so I'm hoping that the areas of the 300 uh signalized intersections that we think are are valid then get modernized so that then we can use uh this Grant and the technology where they need need to be used because one of the things about the cameras was they were placed in areas intentionally uh areas to catch those in the underserved communities and when we started to dig and really push for the data and we said these these cameras need to go into the areas that the data is showing high red high high red light running then that's when we shifted and then that's when the red light cameras went away so I want to understand if this this grant if there's cameras I want to understand what exactly what we be doing and how you're going to use this technology with archaic street lights mayor members of the council I want to let Alan answer your particular question but what I want to also reassure everyone is that there is no um punitive aspect to the implementation of this grant this is not to pull people over write people tickets anything of that nature um this is really to help us better assess the traffic flows and the um Behavior at particular incidents excuse me intersections so that we can intervene in better ways um by analyzing that data Alan thank you Lori mayor councilman Pastor the the city's uh Focus as the the grant is currently uh laid out would look at an area that is based upon the identified High Injury Network uh so where there are more crashes that are happening and also in some of the underserved communities where some of that technology is is the oldest um because it tends to be older parts of the the city and so the grant would allow us to to place uh within the existing lights uh light poles some of this uh technology to then be able to be used in those areas where a lot of it is already able to be gathered in newer parts of the city that have some of the newer technology being built in with those traffic lights and again because it's not punitive it's about trying to make it safer for everyone who lives there and more efficient thank you and I think it's important to recognize mag has looked at the 100 most dangerous intersections and the majority are in Phoenix in Maricopa County and our residents keep asking us to do more there was a news story this weekend it might have actually been in District 4 three accidents one intersection our residents want safety improvements this is a technology we have piloted in a fairly wealthy area of District Six it seems to help reduce red light fatalities and protect pedestrian lives and so it seems to me fair that it not just be in the wealthiest area of our city but that we want to really focus on those dangerous intersections we'll go next to councilwoman O'Brien thank you mayor um I want to go back to a a question or a comment that councilman wearing made about he drives a vehicle that is older with no technology and so if you don't have technology in a vehicle you drive we it cannot be tracked through this system mayor uh councilman O'Brien that is correct the the technology that's being installed uh today in newer cars uh was is not available in older cars and so that's what allows for some of that uh communication where a new car that is built post 2019 is when some of this technology started showing up it's Min understanding that it didn't exist before then but in cars since then they do have the ability to get information where uh you could be understand that your car is going to tell you there's an emergency vehicle coming from you know the left so to help you navigate and be safe with those things but only those cars 2019 and newer and only if you were buying a car that has that technology would you be getting of those information and dealers can turn off that technology at the request of the the car buyer okay so one You' have to have the technology two this is not punitive three we're not have it's not specific enough to catch a specific license plate um Additionally you have the option if you have the technology in your car my car has some kind of Technology it wants to talk to its carmaker and every so often I get a message and it says do you want to send us all this information about your car and I hit no every time so I have the option to turn it off to not participate correct mayor council Brian that is correct additionally though if if you are a participant and I've got my map on in my car and I'm driving to work with my radio really loud singing which nobody wants to hear and I don't hear the sirens of the emergency vehicle that I because everything's so loud I might hear it I might be notified by my radio or whatever mechanism is in my car due to this system is that a possibility May coun that is correct okay so based on the information you've provided today I support that we have this kind of Technology available for those citizens who wish to participate additionally I want to just clarify it says 300 High Injury Network um I would guess those are uh intersections is that correct we're going to go to the top 300 mayor councilwoman O'Brien uh that is is correct um it is 300 but it's uh it will be deployed based upon that high Injury Network area but it will also include some uh intersections that don't uh that aren't as as high but because we want to look at that Corridor for an efficiency standpoint to see how traffic moves it will be within that Corridor okay so like a maybe a five mile or 10 Mile Corridor where we want the lights timed so we're improving efficiency and and timing mayor council Brian that's correct okay thank you very much um Alan and mayor thank you we'll go to councilman wearing and then councilwoman gado and then councilwoman Stark thank you mayor uh since the chief has gone maybe there's a question for Kevin surprise or uh or Lori but the police already track basically in real time high problem crime areas you know where a lot of crime is happening and deploy resources more or less accordingly correct May are members of the council councilman wearing um the chief is actually here but yes that is correct I'll accept your word for it then thank you um so again that's not something that's new I can tell you right now the way people or we find out hey there's problem areas is someone calls my office I mean I'm sure there's other ways too but we get a call in my office hey there's a lot of speeding on desert Village Parkway or something and then we call the police commander and the police Commander usually sends somebody out they've only got what 34 I think motor officers for the 5,000 miles of streets in the city so they do what they can um or if it's an intersection because I get a lot of complaints about that too this intersection is dangerous it should have more lights or it should have a left turn light or it should be timed differently we get variations on those requests streets will actually send out if they're asking for a stoplight for example streets will send out their team and they'll do a review and I think it takes six weeks or something and they'll take the data I mean I'm not really sure how that data is any different than this data you'll be concentrating or trying toidentify I guess the 300 worst intersections I mean there aren't going to be many of those in District 2 I've seen the data most of those are in the other parts of the city um as I think the mayor and Council woman Pastor alluded to um you know you want to make sure you address those I'm guessing that probably they're going to have older street lights as well so that might be an issue you have to get over the issue about the stretches that you were talking about to evaluate traffic flow well hell that's something people have been asking about long before I was on the council people were complaining at you know barbecues and stuff boy I wish all the lights were timed out so we can get through I think that's really what you're saying how to move the traffic more efficiently so that's not only that's that that's something obviously that people have thought about for a long time but actually wanted for a long time so the extent it could address that that would be helpful um but if I had to sum up what I've heard uh to address Leslie and Jeff's concerns it wouldn't be our decision to set up new laws about these traffic laws to pull people over make people stop or so forth that's the state from what Julie said that's not something we could just do arbitrarily even if we want to do it that way uh check me if I'm wrong about any of this second the technology that we're getting isn't good enough to do that even if we wanted to do it we were able to do it legally and if we wanted to do it so worrying about it seems a little premature to say the least so Jeff and Leslie I would say you want us to do this and you know why because we're going to buy crummy technology that can't do what you fear we're going to do we're going to install it with Federal money we're not going to have enough money to replace it effectively in the future so it's not going to get replaced so just like the street lights I talked about before that are 1985 versus you know 20 24 street lights and they're wildly different things all this other stuff is going to be the same you're going to have stuff that doesn't talk to each other I've seen this way too many times I saw it with Taser I saw how much the technology developed by the time we actually get this stuff installed it's going to be dated and all but useless I'm not saying that's great referendum on government efficiency I'm just saying that's what's going to happen and then maybe there will be some federal program in the future to replace these cameras maybe I can tell you we got a lot of security cameras around the city and Hell a bunch of them were broken before the Super Bowl had to spend a bunch of money to replace them so just like we talked about with the arpa money you know where are we going to replace that where are we going to replace the money to replace these cameras they can't do what you fear they're going to do right now we don't have the authority to do it anyway but going forward to do it for the whole city 300 intersections we've got like 1,200 right now and 5,000 miles of streets I mean that doesn't seem very realistic to me if we're left to our own devices we can't pay for the stuff we've got in our budget right now you just heard that 10 minutes ago just food for thought but I mean I guess this isn't going to cost Phoenix taxpayers money other than they pay the federal government then this is a grant and so forth do we even know for sure we're going to get this grant mayor councilman wearing uh we do not we have submitted for the grants and are waiting to hear so there are other competitors probably having similar discussions I mean I guess at some point we might get this we might get this stuff installed any idea what year that might be we'll all be driving around in way more cars by the time that happens because installing this kind of stuff that isn't an easy trick either somebody's got to go do it my experience it takes forever we put in a couple of street lights every year I get all kinds of requests for street lights the street lights you see that get installed they're installed by developers we make them do it when they add to the traffic flow right Allan we've gone down that road a number of times mayor council weing you are correct street lights are super expens we can't even put in new stop lights we put in like a a couple every year they're like 400 something Grand a pop used to be 200 but inflation so now they're 400 or something right 450 Allan I think that's about yeah mayor council I think you're correct it's in that that ballpark I I would add that as part of uh the grant if the city's successful in doing that there is a a private sector partner so it's a public private partnership where they're going to help with the installation and the data collection and those things uh to ensure that we can get it done in a a more timely fashion all right um so we tried to put in a tennis court at San Piper Park last year and wow it took them forever to get enough people and the S it used to be 150,000 now it's like 500 so you go ahead and live in that fantasy world that you just outlined no offense but I mean that doesn't sound particularly realistic project of this scope maybe they'll expedite it a little bit but how many years are we talking I mean but we haven't gotten the grant yet so they got to evaluate the Grant and all that I mean I'm factoring that in too cor correct mayor councilman wearing uh because it is a grant submitt we are not to the the level of detail that I could give you a a good an estimate on what that timing would be federal government private contractors over under if I went to Vegas five years I don't know then these cameras will be obsolete move for thought thank you Alan thank you we'll go next to councilwoman guardado then councilwoman Stark then councilwoman pestor thank you mayor I guess I just had one question I don't know if it's for you Alan or if it's for the chief or maybe um Lori or someone can answer how how will this technology support our plan on 27th Avenue and and 19th Avenue how will that be helpful to that so um mayor members of the council councilman guado um Alan tells me that 27th Avenue is one of the areas that will be addressed if we are fortunate enough to receive the Grant and so this will assist us by improving traffic patterns along that Corridor and how does that how does this grant also help us I mean we there's a lot of us on on the diet that continue to talk about that we don't have enough police officers and we don't um we've talked about how the 20 7th Avenue plan helps alleviate a lot of the challenges and the issues that we have um with um with our Police Department on being able to hire and being able to fill the those gaps how does that help with that with the gaps that we have within the police department mayor councilwoman that's a great question and and what this does is it actually allows us to focus our officers on the most dangerous places um if needed if that's needed it may not be um depending on the intervention that's required based on the analysis but it does allow us to have a better idea of where to focus attention both by the streets department and the police department in order to make the street safer thank thank you Lori I think it's incredibly important that we continue to think outside of the box in terms of how is it that we continue to support the police department how is it that we continue to support our constituents and we had a meeting last night with all of the neighborhood leaders in our district and we talked about about the the rtlc that's going to be opening up soon and how everyone is very happy about that and we have a lot of other neighbors that are saying when can we do this in my neighborhood so I think um this is very helpful if everything that you guys are saying is true um when it comes to ticketing and um and you know a lot of the issues that we were having with the red light cameras I think Um this can be a great program and now I guess we just have to cross our fingers that we actually get this this grant so I will be supporting this item today I think it's something that we need I think it's something that we need to move forward with and there's always room for improvement but I think for now we just need to continue um to think about technology and different ways where we can continue to keep our residents safe thank you thank you councilwoman Stark followed by councilwoman pestor thank you and I don't want to belor this issue but I really do think this is about collecting data to help us understand what's happening on our streets we don't have enough police officers to record what's going on in our streets so I think this is a useful tool for us and I support it and I will tell you you know it will I hope bring to us suggestions on how we make our streets safer because I for one I'm tired of getting emails and texts from our commander Lee aison who is always reporting a fatality whether it's pedestrian or whether it's red light running I don't really care to get those texts but they're reality in our city and we need to make our streets safer and you know I personally support red light cameras I know there's a lot of people that don't like them but I have talked to the mayor of Paradise Valley they have them they have speed enforcement and since they've had them they have had no fatalities on their streets we have got to do something to make our streets safer so I think this is a good tool for us to get the data we need so that we can start looking at where we need to make improvements in our city thank you mayor thank you councilwoman pestor yes um I actually think that it's going to enhance uh the data that we already have because it's sounding like if if if you're listening it's sounding like we don't have the capability to get the data um we have the ability to get the data we know where the 300 intersections are we know exactly what we need to do uh I believe that this grant is only going to enhance and maybe validate what we know um and I just wanted to put that on the record because as we're speaking it sounds like we're not we we don't have it and we do and so that's all this Grant's going to do we have it we're we're basically applying for this grant we don't even have it um but once we apply and if we receive it then you have the go-ahead to move ahead if you read the packet so it's very important and critical that we understand what you're going to do with the Grant I think that's one of the important things but um I just wanted to put it on the record that this is only going to enhance and it's going to help uh streets and police to understand where the patterns are and also it'll help to uh modernize our our street uh poles or lights um because we need a modernize in order to go and so um I really appreciate uh the dialogue that we're having but uh this will uh help just another tool as as councilwoman St our vice mayor Stark stated it's another tool in addition to so thank you thank you roll call Ansari Yes W yes Hajj Washington yes obrian yes Pastor yes Robinson yes wearing Stark yes GGO yes passes 90 item 63 and 64 are both raise grants so we will take them together do we have a motion on 63 and 64 I move to approve items 63 and 64 4 second 63 is to make uh safety upgrades to the LaVine area conveyance Channel and 64 is um streets infrastructure by the Mayo Clinic um councilman wearing uh thank you mayor uh do either one of these reduce Lanes of traffic or are they road diet issues mayor council wearing they are not road diet issues or reducing traffic Lanes thank you all right we will begin with Diane Barker followed by Jeff good afternoon mayor city council my name's Diane Barker I'm in district 7 but I'm speaking on this item in the streets for 2 and 8 district and I don't have enough information to know if I totally SP support it so I'm just making a statement in the fact that I am glad that I'm able to speak because the city in receiving these funds and there's quite a bit that's going to be up by the mail clinic for that one mile I think $40 million is required through title six program signed by past Ed zerker city manager on 2019 that all the contractors and this is what I'm after have to follow the rules for public input civil rights and the whole Litany of which you're aware of and I want an update I'd like to speak with streets department if Mario could give me a little bit of his time to see if in fact Ed's agreement has been brought up to to date thank you and um this series also includes dobbin's road so I wanted to clarify that Jeff then Leslie Leslie I really wanted to say I'm good um I saw that you know it's not supposed to be involving any road diets and then when I heard all the comments that were made after the last one I heard things that weren't I mean January 7th 2024 two people were killed in Paradise Valley ran over yeah the chief it was in the city of Phoenix it was the the former police chief of Paradise Valley but it was in the city of Phoenix in District 3 sadly and I also know that that that intersection cuz because I'm I'm born here the intersection that was changed in Paradise Valley Lincoln Tatum intersection with 44 Street was drastically changed there's where your reduction is it isn't by breaking the fourth amendment so that's concerning to me that and then I mean so I I don't want to comment on this because I think well if the road diets aren't involved because you said that well then I can trust it right but at the same time we heard that Vision zero would not be used to reduce speed limits but it was so when I'm hearing them give you answers to our questions to and I believe that you're sincere in asking I don't think you're matter of fact this is like night and night day situation when we're here asking questions I actually feel like you guys are asking the questions that's different across the street they've got their mind made up and done so I but that's why I I want to say you know Road diets don't do them blah blah blah and then when I I hear oh it's not in there but then when I hear some of the comments that were being made you know about um we're not going to have the technology with the very thing that was just passed you you're saying it's not going to be used that way but absolutely it's laying down the foundation to be used that way even the movie The Minority Report lets us know that it's a movie oh it's just a movie movies tell us stuff so I I would have said I'm fine on this but I when I heard comments like that I'm like that wasn't accurate so thank you roll call I'm sorry yes whato yes hjge Washington yes O'Brien yes Pastor yes Robinson yes wearing Stark yes Gayo yes passes 90 item 78 is an amendment to city code chapters 31 and 32 will the the clerk read the title item 78 is for ordinance G 7233 in ordinance amending Phoenix city code chapter 31 chapter 32 and appendex 8.2 and establishing an effective date of April 1 2024 vice mayor um I'd like to make some comments but before that I move to approve second motion a second we'll turn to councilwoman Stark thank you so about 40 or 45 years ago the city of Scottdale Council was sued for denying a plat and it moved to the courts to the high courts and they recognize that plats are merely an administrative approval of the council and we can't really deny plats as long as the plat meets all the requirements of the city and some of the requirements are also Federal requirements um about two years ago the legislature authorized cities the ability to have staff administratively approve this and I want to thank councilwoman O'Brien because I know she was down at the legislature testifying in supporting that bill by allowing staff to process it can speed up the recording process which will save time and as my career in planning I always heard developers say time is money and it is and they're they're usually building on an interest rate so hopefully this process um Improvement will be another helpful tool for addressing affordable housing issues we still have a lot to do in in our city this is just another great tool with all the other things we've been adopting and I know most importantly the city uh staff is now looking at the permitting process and looking at ways to improve that and expedite permitting which I think is also an issue that will help with affordability and so I'm very anxious to see the report when it comes forward from staff but mayor I am very excited to support this wonderful thank you we'll go to councilwoman O'Brien and then councilman gado gado thank you so much mayor um Phoenix has shown time and time again that we are committed to solving the housing crisis that every Arizona is facing we've been proactive in amending existing city code to allow for accessory dwelling units potentially increasing the amount of housing options available to our residents we recently reduced parking requirements along Transit oriented development zones to provide the opportunity to reduce costs to our multif family Builders and allow for more units to be constructed in these projects thank you councilwoman and sorry for your work on that we've been working directly with our State Legislative counterparts to craft legislation that helps to increase the supply of housing options without harming cities and Town's local control my office even reached across the aisle to work with a member of the democ ratic party in the state legislature to craft legislation this session to attempt to increase supply for four sale shared wall products and communities Phoenix has and is working towards Solutions the item today is another step towards solving our housing shortage a problem that isn't going to be solved by one state bill or one local Council decision alone we need to utilize multi-prong Solutions like this item to carve away at the time it takes for developers to go from hearings to shovels in The Ground by cutting red tape and reducing bureaucracy this is one more step Phoenix is taking to lead the efforts against the housing crisis today alone there were nine items on this agenda that will no longer have to come before Council should this pass cutting the time needed to get these residential units built thank you vice mayor Stark for advocating on behalf of this code change and to the planning department staff for getting it over the Finish Line step by step Phoenix will continue doing what we have to do in order to solve the housing crisis thank you mayor thank you Council gado thank you mayor I also will be supporting this item first I just wanted to thank Alan and Josh and the planning and and development staff for their work on this um but I just had a question and I just wanted to get confirmation from staff that the city council offices um will still be provided a list of plats under review in their districts as part of the monthly report on res on rezoning and Zoning adjustment cases and preliminary site plans provided by PPD to our offices is that still going to happen Josh mayor councilman with our we're happy to include that information in your monthly reports that would be great just because if we get questions as we're moving forward there's just a lot um that's happening and just so that we can you know just stay on top of it just in case people call us and ask us questions so we can have that but I definitely um in support I'm very supportive of cutting the red tape doing whatever it is that we need to do to move a lot of these projects along so we're going to be doing that correct mayor council will our yes yes okay thank you thank you mayor thank you roll call I'm sari yes yes hjj Washington yes O'Brien yes Pastor yes Robinson yes wearing Stark yes gyo yes passes 90 we next go to item 79 which is an appeal of the HP commission decision for property on 7th Avenue Josh would you introduce the item thank you mayor members of the council with me this afternoon is our historic preservation officer Helena runer Helena runer will give you a brief presentation and then we're happy to answer any questions open the public hearing and assuming we get slides we are expecting two presentations of 5 minutes each followed by public comment thank you mayor and councel uh this property was determined eligible for historic designation in 1984 as part of the historic Phoenix commercial property survey uh the property owner submitted demolition request in October of 2023 uh and the HP commission initiated HP zoning overlay on November 20th of 2023 which triggered a review under Section 80 six of the zoning ordinance uh which requires evaluation of whether or not a demolition permit can be issued um if the property lacks historical significance or if there is an economic hardship uh the owner did not make an argument at that time that the property did not have historical significance uh the basis to establish an economic hardship is that a reasonable rate of return cannot be obtained from a property that either retains as historic features or structures and in the present condition or if the features or structures are rehabilitated owners are provided with a checklist of items to provide to substantiate claims of economic hardship uh in order to establish that a reasonable rate of return cannot be obtained if the property is rehabilitated a cost estimate can be performed by a licensed professional uh this is just an example from another property to give you an idea of what this might look like these assessments prioritize Rehabilitation scopes of work and provide estimated costs uh interior renovation costs can be established based on um occupancies such as assembly office Etc the owners provided photographs uh an insurance statement property tax estimates and a letter from a real estate broker regarding the difficulty in selling the property with the historic structures on the side site they also noted a verbal cost estimate from a general contractor with a rough estimate of $10 million for rehabilitation and also provided some articles regarding uh collapses of Lamela roof structures uh in in other buildings across the country however the owner did not provide information regarding return on investment in the case of Rehabilitation um which as noted would require estimates from a licensed professional because no information on return on investment was provided uh the hearing officer uh denied the economic hardship application and this was upheld by the historic preservation commission uh while the applicant has provided some additional research regarding the structural Integrity of Lamela roofs r large additional information has not been provided regarding potential return on investment uh the applicant did email yesterday late yesterday afternoon to request a continuance for additional preparation time uh so the motion options today would be to continue the item to May 1st 2024 that would coincide with the companion rezoning case for the HP zoning overlay that will come before Council on May 1st uh to uphold the commission's decision um and deny the certificate of economic hardship application or to reverse the HP commission's decision and approve a certificate of economic hardship application thank you so much any questions um I think any questions for uh our historic preservation officer now questions for the applicant later so can we go back to slide mayor or do you want my questions now or later I think now now it's can we go back not that slide the the hearing officer there so what I just heard is that on December 8th uh they were in front of the historic uh preservation hearing office and there was a denial of certificate of hardship and there was a denial due to the fact that they did not provide a return on investment or what uh yes mayor um and councilwoman Pastor um there at that point there um was some information provided but not um that which demonstrated sort of that economic component of a reasonable rate of return okay so then then that's the reason it was denied and then it got appealed or went to the historic preservations uh commission and the same thing happened uh they help upheld the hpo decision and denial a certificate of hardship because there was no evidence provided uh yes mayor and councilwoman Pastor there was some additional information provided in in terms of the real estate um professional professional providing a letter you know in regard to the difficulty of selling the property and that sort of General estimate of a $10 million you know uh Rehabilitation cost but um in terms of providing that more substantive analysis of from licensed professionals that information was not provided right it was we needed licensed professionals to provide that information in order to uh get the uh certificate of hardship now you stated right now that it was very difficult to sell that property or you made a statement that that that's that was the statement that it would be very difficult to sell the property or it's very difficult to sell the property currently uh the Property Owners did provide a letter from their real estate um agents uh which was included in the packet but demonstrating that you know they they've been working to sell it and that um The Challenge has been for them that people are not interested in the property with the historic buildings there okay I've been following this case and you can probably correct me if I'm wrong or uh my understanding is that there was a buyer um and they were willing to preserve uh the historic they were willing to preserve the building where they needed to preserve the building and uh that buyer was it was denied or you can bring up whoever you need to bring up uh mayor council woman pastor and I I do know that they um the property owners I'm sure can speak better to this um there was initially a um a interested in in working with the property but that um that did not go through but I'm I'm not familiar with all of the reasons why okay I'll ask thank you councilwoman hun Washington thank you mayor I just want to uh clarify um it's more so on uh it's the slide before this what a typical report would look like of some sort it's my understanding that although we have received some information from the property owner we don't have information that shows the total investment um would not yield a return on what you would expect to make from that property is that kind of where we because this one shows for example demolition repair the steps needed to bring this property back into a an operative State yes mayor and uh councilwoman hjge Washington that that is correct and um the the these kinds of studies would analyze sort of the cost associated with Rehabilitation um which could then be used to um analyze you know that in comparison to what the return would be um you know based on a rehabilitated building to establish if that cost is above and beyond what you could get in return for that investment and I would presume that the rationale behind ensuring that a licensed professional provides some type of documentation is so that you don't have to Simply take uh and you have a neutral determination or evaluation of the actual property yes that is correct is there anything else that it's any other purpose that you believe that this requirement serves uh Council woman Hodge Washington I I I think um you know it is as you mentioned helpful to have a a third- party assessment um by a professional um who understands I mean what we want to see is an accurate assessment right we we we we want to get a real understanding of what the actual cost is um to rehabilitate um and and you know and in some cases that can demonstrate that it's above and beyond what someone could get in return um but it is helpful to have a third party um that that is experienced and can provide that real Financial uh cost estimate thank you so much thank you uh we will go ahead and welcome up the applicant for a a presentation of up to five minutes and then um you can have one or more speakers during the five minutes anyone who doesn't speak during the five minutes we'll have two minutes to speak during public comment I believe Marilyn will be presenting and um um so the people who are watching online cannot hear unless you're in the microphone but to summarize we provided two licensed professionals and we also provided our Brokers Professional Knowledge and they all assessed it would be in excess of $10 million we thought that would be enough and then when we returned down we re adjourned and we spoke to attorneys and they suggested we did a continuance which I guess you aren't going to Grant because we don't do this every day we're not developers and we don't come to city council every day to you know cases like this when basically we haven't been given a chance to get the materials we need this is a huge building it's in excess of 50,000 Square ft of buildings it's on 2 and a half acres you can give out the same uh questionnaire as that you'd give to somebody in the willow District in a 1500t house on a 10,000 SQ foot lot if that and you expect us to get an itemized on 100y Old buildings it just is not applicable to our project now you're trying to save and there's been a great focus on these Lamela ceilings I have provided article after article that these ceilings collapse and they've collapsed all over the country and I hear where there's such need for mental health for extra housing for the people and yet they want to spend money on something like this they offered the developer eight years of abatement tax abatement and then they were going to the city of Phoenix was going to lease back the project for a dollar a year now they did no investigation on these roofs before they offered him this much money and this is a fact and they don't want to let you know they don't want the public to know how much money they're going to spend on a project like this when this should be bladed across the street from us is an American legent that the City of Phoenix owns they want theirs bladed that's a 100y old building now why don't they keep that one where they have more history involved with with our veterans but why they want to keep an industrial laundry I have no idea the roof is dilapitated I have supplied the can we see those pictures of the roof Helena please because I think this would explain each this is a holistic roof it's 10,000 square fet there's nothing holding it up it's just tension there are no no columns no posts it's all held up it's a hundred years old they quit making these ceilings in 1940 and I gave them a 220 page report on this 1940 they discontinued these because because they had fallen down and collapsed they collapsed like dominoes because each member has to be holistically attached and if you have broken or weakened members this will cause the ceiling to collapse they've been empty for five years these buildings have been empty for almost five years and no one has wanted to buy them this is a criminal it seems to me just criminal not to just take the buildings down get some housing for the people how about affordable housing and quit spending the citizens money in such a reckless way it I just we've given them reports countless reports we've talked to countless Engineers no one understands this ceiling because they are not built and they don't understand the technology that's involved they came out of Germany and um they then had a few more in I think Wisconsin they have more in Wisconsin because of the immigration from the Germans to Wisconsin and Minnesota but we don't have that many of them it's true because they fall down they will not take a wind any more than 120 miles an hour they' they've collapsed we have microbursts that that come up to 150 M an hour winds quite commonly it's all over the Internet and if we got a microburst that sat down around there it would be blown off it's like Dome the wind catches it and then basically those members collapse like dominoes and people don't understand this we've tried to to tell the Historic Society this is basically not worth keeping and this is the way money is being spent eight eight years of tax abatement dollars do you know how much that is when a developer comes in and and and does a two and a half acre project he just felt felt like there was he spent a lot of money investigating he did not have a structural engineer though that was never done and that's a fact and so what if the city would have given him eight years of tax abatement money and then how embarrassing would it have been if he couldn't even use these structures and you know you get the point I didn't come prepared because we asked for a continuance they're was in money they're wasting the citizens money on um Council pestor has a question yeah I would like to ask Chris Macky our economic uh development director to come up and uh one of the questions is because I know that this is has been a property that we have been um following for quite some time or years and uh I would like to know this property I guess I would like to know the economic development uh Force around this property and if there's the possibility to find a buyer for the property mayor ccom pestor would I'd be happy to provide you the information that I'm familiar with as you look at this particular property uh as um Miss rter has noted it's one of the the few remaining Lamela roofs in in Arizona I've toured the building any number of times with both Mr and Mrs milm and then with a potential buyer we had a a potential buyer thank you we had a potential buyer coming in who entered into a contract with the myms to purchase the property their plan was was to preserve the buildings and leave the buildings so that they could uh be accessed by the public and they would then add additional high density residential that surround the particular properties in fact the buyer I've worked with the myms and and not repeating out of school I was actually in a couple of meetings where it was discussed with both of them in purchasing the property this of course as you know was a former industrial laundry and so there was some question about the Environmental um soundness of the property the buyer did ask for some additional time to get to get additional environmental work completed so that they could satisfy their lending requirements and move forward they were working with the EPA on this particular solution to get the the certificate of cleanliness from the EPA or to receive information on the additional testing that needed to be accomplished to get that um the myms chose not to allow them additional time to get that done and so so they did withdraw out of their offer on the particular property and they they already had gone what we in in real estate call hard with some money on that particular property and I know they were very interested in developing on that location since they have withdrawn from their offer we have had several potential buyers that have come forward one of which toward the building now on three different occasions in the past six or seven weeks that is interested in acquiring ing the property to allow it to be redeveloped but preserving the buildings you uh do get an additional two minutes but I think um you not right now because Council festor has the floor unless she okay so this is you want your rebuttal now all right that's time for two minutes then okay I met Chris Mackie and you remember you said oh we have Deep Pockets we're g to give a lot of M that's exact what said we have Deep Pockets and we're going to give these developer lots of money and I have you on recording too Basic Land telephone call it is true Chris Mackey so we have Deep Pockets and we have a lot of money to give to these developers and we can forgive all kinds of uh codes and everything else I just love these buildings I see them outside my office these are my favorite buildings in the whole city yes well that you you agree with that well this is exactly what you told me the developer kept us under contract for two years and I wish our our our agents were here because they they would they would tell the truth and basically they would extend and extend they'd missed their payments and we just said we don't want to do this anymore we want to sell our property and so that's when we asked for a demo permit because we tried to work with the city and it was not working out and they were all working together Chris and the zoning lawyer and the developer and the developer just his money was drying up he had bought another property in the warehouse district and we have a a no further notice from the EPA and you know that you have seen it I can show it to you right now no further action we have done everything we needed to do to comply with anything that took us years before would you like to see it Chris would you like to see the letter I have it on my phone how come you don't answer me yeah exactly because it's the truth we are having lies presented here and this is disgusting the way they are wasting the citizens money nobody cares about what these ugly will you please show those broken members Helena please show the broken members of in the roof yeah please show the other pictures I sent them all to you please show them and so these people can see what they want to save which is not going to be even doable we've had structural engineers in the buildings it's not going to be done there's no recognize counil Stark you need thank you thank you thank you ma'am excuse me thank you um I'm actually I have a question of you deep breath so you asked for a continuance what would you with that continuance what do you hope to achieve if we continue this if they want us to do some sort of a uh we have to get somebody like these professionals that tell us it's going to be an excess of $10 million that's going to be a huge feat because they they want an itemized will you please show those other pictures Helena please show those pictures I can show them on my phone excuse me ma'am I'm they're not telling you the truth I'm I know I'm asking you the questions okay so we were going to get our attorney wanted us to get more time get a continuance because we are getting an attorney involved we have been talking to attorneys but he thinks this is so disgraceful and disgusting he said to come in and get a continuance and we would try to provide you with our hardship we've been paying for 5 years we're in our 70s this is our retirement it has drained us we've pay the taxes we've paid the utilities we've kept the building up for five years thank you so let me ask our own thank you thank you so thank you and God love you that you're in your 70s you guys look great so I I I do want to understand if if we ask for a continuance and it's not in my district so it's not up to me but if we were to ask is there a way we could achieve some kind of compromise in your mind Helena uh mayor vice mayor Stark um in ter compromise in terms of the level of documentation to be provided yes um I you know I think we would need um sort of a a a a minimum of um a structural analysis um you know it might not be that they have to do as estimates for complete uh interior refurbishment but I think if we could get an uh an idea of um like the structural and the exterior Rehabilitation costs that that would be minimum um and and and just so you know the the the photographs that um Miss milum is is mentioning were are in your packet as part of the um appendices we seeing that thank you so um if we did Grant a continuance and you would be willing to work and then maybe Chris you could help I know I know you know we don't have Deep Pockets boy I wish we did but we don't um but having said that if there's some ideas I think I'm talking to them if if there's a way maybe you can find to help that would be great but again this is in district 7 so I don't want to step on your toes but it sounds like maybe we could get a compromise if we bought a little bit more time I don't know that's my opinion thank you thank you uh we do have few additional speakers is it okay to take those or okay um so we have um Diane Barker followed by Julia tager that has no Ian Barker has the floor thank you I'm in district 7 Diane Barker I'm familiar with the property and I came here to city council because I was at the Roosevelt action Association I'm a member last night and they let us know that this was going to be on the agenda there wasn't too much discussion they did say that there seemed to be um some OB um opposition I stand here after listening to the owner and I'm an independent citizen I've never met at the owners before I have no monetary interest in this property but I believe what they're saying the thing about it I've talked to people that have preserved property old property and they have let me know sometimes people just need to let go by the time you go through all the regulations and this and that it's not worth it and Council woman Pastor I hear you talking about bringing up technology to the progressive to the modern and everything this stand some of these old buildings that need to be torn down stand in that way of that whole idea I happen to live in a building in the neighborhood that they tore down I understand an old warehouse and it serves great purposes that they made at the highest Environmental certification and my bill there and I live on the top floor for 800 ft was only $16 when I moved in and now it's 39 you know this is for my electricity we need to look forward to sustainability in this property here you should be more concerned about the blight and the environmental problem that could be from contamination this was laundry we need to start thinking about sustainability and people Julia oh can I can I speak or okay uh hi again you guys know me because I always bring up historic properties and things like that mystery castle and whatnot um this does have value and I do think it can be restored there is a trend going on not just in the city of Phoenix but in the City of Tempe Mesa all over where people are taking historic buildings like this and they're renovating them they're preserving the historical elements and they're making something into it I know in Tempe the Tempe bread Mill that you would always see that's been abandoned for decades they're going to make a restaurant into and they're going to preserve the historic elements I know in Sunny Slope in District 3 the arbor the arbor had been there for I think since the 1920s and Osos bought it and they took the time and they took the years to preserve the architecture and to make sure that it was AR architecturally safe and that it was historic and it looked just like it did in 1920 they just painted it they added their logo they even worked with the Historical Society to do a timeline of the arbor inside the history of Sunny soap so there are businesses that are willing to work to save historic properties and make them into something better I this is my time to speak can I please speak thank you um I understand that I really do and I empathize with them but if we keep tearing down historic buildings we will have nothing to look forward to in the future we will have nothing to show anybody and this building is over aund years old there are stories with it there are people who worked in it that might be their entire Legacy I drove by the building you can see the art deco elements when you're driving to here you can see it the sign is Beautiful Everything is still beautiful it looks gorgeous to me I'm not an engineer so I can't save it's structurally safe but I do think that there are elements that we can preserve and we can try and find a buyer for it we just don't have to demo it I mean it is one of the remaining Art Deco buildings we have left in the city of Phoenix it could be a restaurant it could be an art space it could be a studio whatever but we can save it we have time and I know that the owners want to demo it but we can't we cannot let more historic properties get demoed when they can be saved I'm gonna you I'm not going to buy it but you can't just expect everybody to go agree with you all right Craig can have two minutes on the condition that you remember we do not do personal attacks no personal attacks Craig you have two minutes I wasn't really prepared to talk I didn't think I was going to talk today but yeah my dad worked from 1956 until uh 2019 I think no I worked till 2019 then I retired he worked until uh about 1995 I believe and we always believed in the American dream we always thought that the private property that we bought was our private property that we would take good care of it that when the time came to sell it that we could sell it without being Unum encumbered in ways that go Way Beyond the constitutional rights that every American citizen has that's our point is that this is unconstitutional absolutely it's a taking of our property rights I can tell you I worked hard like basically 365 days every year for years it's a hard industry this linen service industry all the companies that we were competing against were big National Regional companies not little phoenix-based companies it took a heck of a lot of work to give customers our customers better values so even though we had that disadvantage we couldn't serve their uh properties in Los Angeles and Santa Fe New Mexico and just any place you can mention we couldn't do that we had to like rely on the business of the Phoenix area businesses and Tucson and we did a good job and we worked really hard at it way harder than you'll ever work at it and I deserve and my wife deserves and when we got married we were talking about the future we were talking about when we retire and we were talking about how hard we were going to work and that we were going to enjoy our lives we're going to enjoy playing we're going to enjoy working and we weren't talking about the government was going to get in the way and and and take from us we never ever ever thought that would happen in this country we never ever thought that would happen in this city we never thought there would be people like you in the city who were managing the city government like that close the public hearing councilwoman and sorry thank you mayor I have a number of questions for staff um just for the sake of uh reiterating the process that's been ongoing can you talk a little bit more more about how long this process has been going on and what information was provided to the um to uh the mym family about what they needed to do uh yes mayor and uh councilwoman onari um so as I mentioned when the um commission initiated the designation in November that sort of launched a a dual track process of both um this economic hardship case as well as a companion rezoning case um and um the the under Section 806 of the zoning ordinance this economic hardship hearing um we do provide a a a checklist um that was also included in the um uh appendices in the in the in the council packet um but there are items to complete and again really the the Crux of it is this reasonable rate of return um and so we we worked with them um in and talking about uh getting some information from their real estate Professionals in terms of the the first bar which is you know can you get a reasonable rate of return on the exist based on what it is right now um and they they did provide a letter and that regard to you know provide some additional information um and it was the second part though of sort of investing the funds for um some professionals to come in that gave them some pause in terms of um you know the sort of the outlay that that would require um so we we you know in between um the hearing officer hearing and the HP commission we've been working with them um you know and they have provided additional research like I said about Lamela roof construction um but there just has been some hesitancy to to hire professionals to come in and and do that documentation okay so would you say they've kind of repeatedly refused to provide the docum mentation that is our typical process that we do every time we go through a case like this uh they in terms of when they when it was held before the the com the commission that the commission did ask you know whether or not they would be interested in a continuance to provide that additional information in terms of rate of return um and at that point they were not interested um and so the the commission at that point upheld the the denial decision and one more time what month was this uh that was in January January 8th was the commission uh upholding the December um hearing officer decision so the appellant at that time refused wanting a continuance for this that is correct okay so when was this particular continuance requested uh yesterday at about 5:00 p.m okay um and then um there was a comment made by um the appellant quote we've been G we've given countless reports is that the case or can you talk more about that uh sure councilwoman I'm sorry um we you know they as I mentioned they they did provide um some different articles and some academic scholarship about Lamela roofs um in addition to the letter provided um the real estate professional did note that they had um you know someone walked the property and gave sort of a ballpark estimate of a 10 million dollar we haven't seen any other documentation from a licensed professional actually evaluating this this building or this property okay um mayor I'm ready for a motion unless there are other question we will take the motion but councilman wearing does have a question but I think it's time for a motion uh a question or more of a statement I say let him bulldo it and be done with it we spent more on this issue we had some important issues today or other days I I I don't know what we're doing here it kind kind of sounds like we're making a couple 70 somethings miserable I don't know why we're doing that over a roof or something for an old was it dry cleaner I mean commercial laundry sorry um I I just at some point I've heard this we haven't had one of these in a while my 12 years on the council but we tried to preserve old Banks I think there was an old maybe it was a bashes we tried to preserve these ain't Mount Vernon I mean have we lost our Collective Minds nobody's going to come visit this no school kids are going to take a tour of it nobody who goes in it if it becomes a restaurant is going to look up and go oh what a pretty rough not gonna happen so I it's great that a few people feel strongly about this of course it's easy for them it's that not their $9.3 million that's being tied up it's easy when you're in the cheap seats and you got no skin in the game but for them the rest of us can say oh it's a pretty building you know how many times I've driven by that building thousands you know how many times I've noticed it no offense none absolutely none I've been in that American Legion like what are we doing I let's put this the rest one way or the other but I it is it's a little dispiriting I I I I get that they were talking over people and so forth you shouldn't be doing that but I get that they're frustrated I would be too I was frustrated just listening to it so I guess just either be done with it continue it if you can work it out great but I really think we should take a long hard look in the mirror about some of this stuff we haven't had one of these in a while but we have had them in the past probably pre-o than the last one that I can actually remember I mean is this what I got in this business for doesn't seem like it to me thank you councilwoman I'm sorry thank you um while I do have sympathy for Mr and Mrs mym I I completely disagree with uh councilman moing I think historic preservation has been a big priority for the city it's been one in our budget it's been one in in the go Bond um and we need to remain consistent in these processes the only evidence that has been supplied in this case has been anecdotal and that does not fit the criteria for overturning the historic preservation officer or commission's rulings um from the responses we heard from staff the the applicants also or the appellant has also been um refusing to provide what is needed and again that is a process that we do in every single case if that evidence had been supplied this may have been a different case and I could have supported the appeal um but I do truly believe these buildings are worth saving and will make an incredible space for the downtown community to gather in while I will be denying this appeal I'm committed to working with our Economic Development Department to find a buyer who wants to utilize these beautiful historic buildings as soon as possible possible so that Mr and Mrs milm can move on from this property and enjoy their retirement and with that I move to uphold the historic preservation commission's decision denying the certificate of economic hardship second we have a motion in a second any final comments roll call onari yes wal yes hudge washhington yes O'Brien yes Pastor yes Robinson yes wearing no Stark goo yes passes 81 next is item 80 consideration of a citizen petition uh we'll begin with Tristan thank you uh for considering Arcadia Camelback Mountain neighborhood association's petition uh this action is taken on behalf of neighborhood groups individual citizens attorneys zhos and yes even Board of adjustment members wrongdoing has taken place with Board of adjustment members we know this via the admission under oath of board member Ammond who expressed a desire in his testimony for regular training as a way of preventing future wrongdoing and maintaining equity and Prof and procedural fairness City attorney Daniel engl acknowledged this and when ACA dropped our lawsuit it was understood that reform would be made no such reform has happened and that's why we're here today I appreciate staff's commitment to implement training on March the 7th and promise and and a promise to provide annual mandatory mandatory refresher training your board wants to do their job well and your community supports this this training must be thorough this training must be mandatory and must occur annually mentorships are a key element for onboarding uh telling new members hey staff's available if you have questions is not the same as assigning another board member who has walked the path and offers support at the root of this request is the need to acknowledge the diligent work done by your zhos your hearing officers their findings are valid and must be addressed but yes sometimes they get it wrong but any override must must be made in accordance with the four tests for a variance two criteria for use permit and must acknowledge the opposing view of the zho this creates a thorough and fair review of cases and provides your board zhos and citizens the solution that we seek thank you for allowing me to present the petition and to speak today thank you not seeing a motion we will go on to public comment will the City attorney please introduce that portion yes thank you mayor during citizen comment members of the public May address the city council for up to three minutes on issues of Interest or concern to them the citizen comment session is limited to 30 minutes the Arizona open meeting law permits the city council to listen to the comments but prohibits council members from discussing or acting on the matters presented thank you we'll begin with Brian McCarthy followed by Troy wood good afternoon mayor and members of the city council thank you again for this opportunity to speak with you uh my name is Brian mccardy again quiet skg good.org and I live north of the Phoenix goodar Airport um that airport is owned by the City of Phoenix uh regardless of when this airport were was built uh we were here before one of the largest flight schools in the world moved into the Goodyear airport and we don't deserve what is happening to us and what is happening to our property values would you want to live in a neighborhood where low-flying aircraft fly over your rooftops 18 hours a day seven days a week the noise is unbearable let me switch to safety on February 2nd in Clearwater Florida tragedy struck a populated neighborhood when an airplane just like the ones flying out of Goodyear crashed and killed innocent people in their home the day of that accident we wrote you a letter warning you of how dangerous the Phoenix goodier Airport and the surrounding airspace is what we were trying to convey to you in that letter is that aircraft flying over our neighborhood north of Interstate 10 that experience an engine failure have nowhere to land but a populated neighborhood come on out and see it we invite you to come see this every single day hundreds of aircraft that if they have an engine failure just like the one that happened in Goodyear last week they will not be able to land at an airport just a few days later like I was talking about February 10th 7: am it happened in our historic Goodyear neighborhood sending two of our residents to the hospital and destroying their vehicle that they go to work in we visited the crash site it's just a mess I can't imagine the fear and anxiety these residents now live with with 500 to 800 flights going over their homes 18 hours a day seven days a week let me just read you what it says in the Goodyear airport P pilot guide before your Aviation Department deletes it it states under practice noise friendly flight to avoid low-level flight activity over residential areas we're being completely ignored in goodye this noise and safety problem has been exported by the City of Phoenix who owns this airport and we are suffering mayor we have one simple objective and that is to work with you and your Aviation Department through the flight schools in the FAA to implement smart noise abatement and safety procedures that reduce the noise and the risk of living near this dangerous airport this airport had 25 aircraft at that flight school a year and a half ago now it has 94 we're encouraging these Pilots to fly south of Interstate 10 fly at higher altitudes and balance the amount of flying done at the Goodyear airport everything we've asked the FAA and your Aviation Department to help us with they've done the opposite thank you thank you Troy is next followed by Janet guest hello my name is Troy wood and I don't I'm not even familiar how any of this work works but I have a property that has been invaded twice and I I I've tried to work with Neighborhood Services and they're just doing some things that are just wrong what have I got to do to be able to address this problem with the council I've tried calling in I've called the mayor's office I've called the City My City councilman's C councilwoman O'Brien Office three times never get a call back on it I've sent her an email never got any answer to uh it's like I'm being blocked and they're threatening to foreclose on my property on some issues that that should have never even happened uh and I just need to be heard hello hello we can hear you um we cannot have a dialogue during this time period that's what when I called in they told me I'd have to go this route so there's nothing that y'all can I can't get an answer from any what am I what am I supposed to do um so um sorry I contact information from you so we can contact him after the meeting okay so we'll follow councilman O'Brien follow up after the meeting okay thank you thank you we'll um have Janet next um and um we I am going in the order in which people signed up so uh it would be Janet next all right um good afternoon mayor and councel um my presentation actually was going to follow Jason's but that's all right um my name is Janet Gast and I am the current president of the Cave Creek Women's Golf Association uh our Women's Club was formed in 18 or 1983 uh the same time Cave Creek Golf Course first open with an official membership of 120 women and grew to as large as 200 members by the mid to late 1990s we still have over 60 members and host competitive weekly events and tournaments uh one of our League's goals has been to grow the league back to some of our original numbers and a part of attracting new members of course has been the reasonable cost of the course uh that being Municipal Golf however the condition and playability of the course is also very important and while Cave Creek has been maintained fairly well over the years it's showing the wear and Terror of so much play frequent comments from not only members but from the general public are that it's a great layout challenging as well as a good value however the biggest negatives are lack lack of cart paths the bare dirt areas in the middle of some of the fairways and an Antiquated irrigation system however these negatives could easily be turned into positives with the right amount of investment addressing these would result in a giant step forward in positioning Cave Creek to meet the golfing demands of our current and future generations of golfers while generating increased revenue for the city we're here today to advocate for your support of Municipal Gulf in general and the C Creek Golf Course in particular thank you for your time thank you um I made an error on item 80 and there were two speakers signed up and I just missed them and I it was not intentional um and they will be next uh Marvin followed by Wally well I lost track of my notes Here mayor but I'll be right with with it give me two seconds if you want to go have someone else go next we can come back to you uh mayor city council thank you for having me um I'm Marvin bouron I'm the current president of the Arcadia Camelback neighborhood Mountain Association and I want to speak to item 8 first we thank uh Tristan chob for his tireless efforts that bring us here today to reer and speak to 80 an electronic sign application which exposes this problem of training for the board of adjustment members our voluntary neighborhood association funded the suit that brings us here today to speak to this our concern is that the four steps of review are met each time that an item is brought before the board of adjustment I believe there has been I believe had there been better training of the board of adjustment members we would have not had this experience and this error that caused my organization to take this matter to the superior court and and the expenses associated with that also that training must occur for each member of the board old and new the training should along with reports to the council that the training has occurred and needs to be implemented thank you for seeing to this thank you Marvin is next followed by Cameron good afternoon U my name is Wally Graham I am a member of the board of adjustment and I'm speaking uh on behalf of myself not for members of the board as a member of the Quasi judicial uh judicial um decision-making Board of adjustment I have to relate to you my own experiences I came on to the board of adjustment last year year appointed by my councilman uh Mr Robinson I was uh experienced certainly and many of you know me from uh my past experiences as president of the Arcadia Osborne neighborhood association so I've been in front of you many times I have knowledge I have experience and therefore what happened with me is not necessarily the thing I'm trying to make a point of I got about 30 to 40 minutes of a similar ation that that was what I got in terms of introduction to the board of adjustment 30 to 40 minutes uh the next day I was then in a seat up where you are on at the deis making decisions on the board of adjustment without background information or knowledge other than what I have gotten from my 12 to 15 years of experience as a neighborhood person so I know that there is no training and all I'm saying to you is consider ways to do that assimilation which is kind of a way of getting people onto the board I was not appropriately assimilated three months after I got on the board I got a uh tag and I'm used to getting tags been here a long time but I got a negative tag as being adversarial because I ask questions I like to get information I go out to every project that's in this book this book is the last one we had but I go out to every project just to see what it looks like I was considered adversarial so please provide some training thank you thank you so much and I apologize for earlier uh Cameron is next followed by Helen good afternoon mayor and City Council my name is Cameron Kerner and I'm honored here to Advocate uh for the preservation and support of Municipal Gulf uh within the City of Phoenix I'm a phoenix native currently on the board for the Cave Creek men's club and was not only taught to play golf here in this city of Phoenix by my grandfather on municipal golf courses but I've also taught my kids um to play specifically at Cave Creek and other Maryville and other municipal golf courses municipal golf courses serve as an invaluable asset to our communities providing numerous benefits that extend far beyond the the fairways and greens some of which I would like to briefly share with you today um municipal golf courses play a vital role in promoting accessibility and inclusivity within our city unlike private clubs municipal golf courses welcome golfers for all backgrounds ages and skill levels and they provide affordable option for residents to enjoy the game and assess uh recreational opportunities that promote physical activity and social interaction as we all know golf courses uh are going up significantly in rates all around the valley um the presence of golf courses contribute significantly to our local economy they attract both residents and visitors stimulating spending on related services such as equipment rentals lessons and concessions moreover these courses host tournaments and events much like the Men's Clubs and the Women's Club of Cave Creek that bring additional revenue and Foster a sense of community Pride municipal golf courses are not only spaces for recreation but also serve as a green Oasis within our Urban landscape they provide habitat for wildlife mitigate storm water runoff and and improve air quality through sustainable practices such as water conservation these courses can further enhance the environmental contributions and serve as models for responsible Land Management Beyond recreational play municipal golf courses provide V uh valuable educational opportunities for residents of all ages youth programs like the first te program all which all Phoenix Municipal Golf Courses participated and introduced the game to the next generation of golfers as they did for me and my children in part partnership with the PGA they teach not only the fundamentals of the sport but also important values such as Integrity respect and perseverance in conclusion municipal golf courses are essential components of our City's recreational economic and environmental fabric by investing in and supporting these valuable assets we can ensure that future generations to benefit from the marriet of opportunities they provide I urge the city council to prioritize the preservation and enhancement of Municipal Golf for the betterment of community as a whole thanks for your consideration thank you Helen is next followed by Bryce hi everyone this is bisan from gasa and I'm still alive these are words that I hope to continue to hear every morning members of elected you hello members of elected that have been elected to serve constituents there will be no business as usual today my name is Helen and I stand before you as an educator and a human being I stand here in solidarity with the people of Gaza Rafa to call for an immediate and permanent ceasefire as other cities have done I also call on severing any training funding that Phoenix PD does to cross train with the deadly iof you continue to spend constituent money to displace over 2.3 million people mulle multiple times over the last 4 months over 30,000 people are dead this includes 12,000 children with over 7,000 missing never in my life would I have imagined to bear bear witness to the atrocities of genocide bodies strewn children maimed fathers digging out their loved ones with nothing but their bare hands I call the name of hind raaj rajab who is only one of thousands of children martyred with our tax money May their souls rest as I urge you to consider that your names will be etched in history forever as supporters of genocide and deniers of Truth with it which is a history that cannot be hidden as well as the one that started way before October 7th this history fails to identify legitimate Zionist terrorist threats such as the use of military chemical weapons at Colombia University I want to make two things clear Zionism does not equate to Judaism and terrorism is very clearly the continual withholding of food Aid and water under Israeli apar sh Mayor Kate you should be also ashamed of yourself to have snipers stay on Martin Luther King day that was very embarrassing I yielded the rest of my time Ry is next followed by Diane Barker is Bryce uh with us Diane is next followed by Jeff Caldwell thank C Mar and Council um I did get to speak with Mario so I'm going to go follow up on the street Transportation title six program plan and the reason why I'm interested in this I the public access I Look To The Future and uh this area is to get the regional area Road fund and it's very important for the city to have these funds so that you can have matching monies for your tax monies that come in our money and the thing is is there's going to be public input and I want to make sure that it's run right and that our agents and some of them have been around as long as I have since Laura your dad was able to get Regional area Road fund back in 198 8 5 and it created a study group called rpta which now has become Valley Metro and Valley Metro sent me away from a public me meeting so I say that after all these years we're not following Public Law and we need to get it together and that's what my intention is thank you thank you Jeff is next followed by Timothy Coughlin mayor council according to Arizona ombudsman's guidance and the Attorney General the council and individual members have the ability to respond to criticism during uh public comment but with that being said mayor gyo your Twitter account posted um 20 minutes ago so I'm not sure if you're on Twitter or your staff is but it says you passed several important items so I don't know um if it was you or not but if it was you I would say that would be disrespectful of our time here today um now getting back into councilwoman Pastor comment about uh smart cities the implementation of smart cities will never be over because technology uh consist consistently advances and the city will need to continuously implement the advancements until our freedoms and Liberties are Stripped Away In The Name of safety getting into uh the policy that you guys voted on it has it I understand it's not technically a city policy it's a grant that has strings attached it was item number 58 today this is a quote from the agenda quote the v2x which is vehicle to everything Grant is a new funding program under the bipartisan infrastructure law which was signed into law November 15th of 2021 the v2x grant offers private public and academic Partners an opportunity to accelerate and Spur new developments in vehicle to everything techn techologies the initiative is focused on road safety mobility and efficient efficiency through technology that enables vehicles and wireless devices to communicate with each other and with the roadside infrastructure and private warnings so I do greatly appreciate councilwoman uh O'Brien getting into the Weeds on that because that's what my concern was is the communication between the vehicles and everything else and that's when once you get this all connected in the future even if the technology may not exist today the government would have the ability to then override people on the streets when they drive and my concern is is that implementing this policy will not enhance the safety of Roads it'll only report back how bad the roads are and we don't have enough police officers to enforce the regulations needed in order to actually make our road safer so with that being said I think it's really important to understand that Benjamin Franklin once said those who give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty or safety thank you Timothy is next followed by Jason Timothy cough okay thank you cin but Coughlin is very uh understandable but my parents pronounced it coglin so I guess I'm stuck with it okay I'm sorry welcome Mr coglin thank you good afternoon uh mayor Gago councilman Robinson and council members I've been waiting all day for my 3 minutes of Glory I guess it shows you how exciting my life is Mayor GGO it's nice to see you again in person for about 7 months out of the Year Phoenix is the American city with the hottest weather but for 12 months out of the year it's the American city with the hottest mayor despite my general admiration for you uh Miss mayor today I wish to express my disagreement with you on the issue of the 30x30 plan whereby as I understand that the goal would be to have 30% women in the recruit classes by 2030 I think frankly that this plan smacks of sex discrimination Fe and female chauvinism it implies that females make better police officers than men if that be true does that mean that the eventual goal will be to have an all female police force that would seem to be the logical extension of this plan also I would say that it's not male chauvinism to say that it seems evident that unfortunately much of a police officer's job entails the use of physical strength for instance what happens when a cop comes upon two men raping a woman or two women what if the female officers Officer or officers are not strong enough to get the rapists off the woman or women uh either the rapists are not deterred or the officer has to pull a weapon or are you going to to team a woman with a man who would then be expected to do the Lion's Share of the grunt work I think that the law enforcement managers should be able to come up with objective standards that either a male or a female must fulfill rather than to adjust the standards so that more women could fulfill them in my hypothetical if two women are being raped in an alley by two two men i' guess those two women would much prefer that the police who answer that call are 6'2 and 210 lb men rather than 5'2 and 130 lb women I think that it would be better to appropriate a certain amount of money to advertise the job to young women with veteran police uh female uh police officers doing commercials Andor going to schools to encourage young women to consider a career in law enforcement thank you very much thank you Jason is next Jason glad followed by Eric mayor council members uh my name is Jason glad and I am the current president of the Cave Creek men's Gulf Association uh myself along with Cameron who you heard and Janet we uh we are member uh sorry uh she is the uh president of the women's uh Association uh most of you know that Cave Creek Golf Course began as a landfill Reclamation project it was a Pioneer in environmental design proving similar spots can find environmentally friendly use Cave Creek opened in 1983 it has become Phoenix most popular Municipal Golf Course seeing around 100,000 rounds played there every year that's over 40 million rounds since its Inception our men's club which has over 300 members was also established during the first year that Cave Creek opened between our weekly and bimonthly weekend tournaments which attract over 100 participants each week we are cave Creek's biggest group of users and supporters the Arizona Department of Water Resources a adwr has set an a an acreage maximum of 90 Acres of turf per 18 hole course Cave Creek currently has 167 easy math tells us that 77 uh Acres of excess the courses have until May 1st 2025 to have either met that number or to have a plan in place with money ided all conversions must be made by January 1st 2030 uh when the discussion comes to uh looking at this uh investing into the city of uh municipal golf courses we uh advocate for the money so that we can fit into the uh um design Des ired acreage thank you thank you Eric is next followed by Julia tagert okay so check this out first day came for came for the Socialist nobody said anything then they came for the trade unionist nobody said anything now they're coming for the Jews they're coming for democracy and they're coming for every last woman's uterus and the right to choose it's disgusting Donald Trump is a it um it's not make America great again it's make America hate again and it doesn't matter where you fall on the political spectrum and Eric could you focus connect it to City business please oh well I I don't know I just came here to speak out against tyranny so it's it's not really City business so I'll give you that and I'll yield my time sorry thank you um we I just understand we are supposed to focus on City business okay uh is City business and also my name is spelled with an a it's t a g g a r t i saw that it said e uh just want to make that clear um mine is just to uh let the city council know that Wallace and ladmo the show is going to turn 70 April 1st 2024 I think some of you would remember walls and ladmo I know in 2019 you guys did a proclamation um I think it would be great to do something like that again for the 70th Anniversary since most of the cast is still alive I know balls has passed ladmo has passed uh but Pat McMahon is still alive Kathy is still alive even the cartoonist who did the show and walls and LMA was an Institutional thing for anybody in Arizona especially in Phoenix since the show was shot here in Phoenix and every kid wanted a ladmo bag and they did so much for the community and I think it would just be great to honor them with something I know that the zoo has a sculpture I know there's a mural where they used to have the studio maybe a street name maybe Proclamation just something to honor the 70th Anniversary because it did have such an amazing impact on the City of Phoenix we have blad moo Park we have you know so many people who went into the city because of walls and ladone they would bring on you know City officials Mayors Governors like Barry Goldwater they had Muhammad Ali whenever a celebrity came they came to do the walls and ladmo show and if you're young I know I'm young I was never on the show I never got a ladmo bag but I know how important it is to the community and it would be great to you know do something to acknowledge it for its 70th Ann iary I know you guys are very busy with other things but just something you know maybe an Instagram post or anything you know cuz it was their entire life it's going to be the longest wining kids show ever it was on for 35 years they never took a vacation they never took a day off and they were dedicated to the community and even though Wallace is gone and LMO is gone it should still be honored and remembered for everybody so that is all I want to say thank you thank you we'll do Alandra Morales next next gandra here all right uh we'll do Mr Millum next okay yes we would want to mention that uh since they're bringing up politics I wanted to mention that the Zinger you know they want you want to save this Zinger uh Lamela ceiling and he was a Nazi sympathizer by the way just I want you to know that but anyway back to these ceilings we do have pictures and I don't know why the historical preservation did not bring the pictures in I don't think they want you to see them so I wish that you would really look at these pictures and look at that 220 page report and the other reports that I sent were these are not ceilings that are sustainable we had no idea ourselves until after the developer dropped out because he couldn't get his funding by the way he couldn't get his Capital funds that's what he told us and that's what he told our develop our U agents so miss Macky is not telling you the truth on that matter and that really bothers me when people like her are lying about things that are misrepresenting and I'm sorry if it it hurts your feelings but that is the truth and we have a letter from the EPA no further action we don't have any problems and for somebody to try to soil our reputations and soil our property just to diminish the property so the City of Phoenix can buy it cheaper that's not right and uh you really should read these reports if you really want to do your jobs look at all these reports about a me ceiling and all of the collapses do you want that on your conscience later on because it can never be certified for public occupancy I've talked to enough engineers and we've we've very much researched it and you can look at those those papers yourself and those studies because it is not fit for consumption the members have broken when you when you have one broken member and one weak member it could affect all the members and they collapse and look and and Google for yourself writing rinks they collapse they collapse like dominoes they crack they collapse the wind pulls them up catches the wind that because they're basically domes catches the wind like an airplane tip and they pull up and they're pulled down and they collapse so I don't know if you want to have it on your conscience but basically they will never be used for any kind of public use and that's what is so bothersome that you want to put an overlay on something that can never be used what's going to happen if you overlay it and you spend all this money and then you find out it can never be used what happens then are you going to apologize to us when we have tried to give you these reports that verify everything I mean do you have any questions about that [Music] thank you uh we have half an hour for public comment if your name is not called we will take you first at our next meeting so um we are trying to get a diversity of topics so we'll go with Elizabeth as our final public comment Elizabeth you're next me yeah um Elizabeth is our final public comment I appreciate that um I also want to give a shout out to Wallace and LMO I was on the show two times and I receiv received LMO backs and they were very good we have a video of me opening everything anyways what I wanted to say is that sometimes public policy that shape by um what people consider to be morals um doesn't have moral outcomes unfortunately a lot of um uh different ideologies that we carry from the past influence decision making um later on the down the road regardless of their um connection to evidence-based practice and uh one of the ways that I wanted to focus on this I know it sounds like a strange comment but one of the ways I wanted to focus on this is the Perpetual exclusion of people who have uh substance abused issues from shelters a couple years ago some of you voted not to um zone for the Andre houses shelter and to me um it had a lot to do with number one the population that was being served which is very low barrier and also the way in which the Andre house who is a very trusted provider um was going to run the facility again in a very low barrier way um it is extremely expensive to municipalities and the states to keep a person on the streets regard regardless if you think that person is moral or immoral or should take responsibility for whatever mess they've made of their lives and just stay out there and die a it results in all kinds of externalities that are not addressed and are later addressed by especially Health Care fire um Emergency Services policing of course we rely on that to solve our problems with people on the streets and I mean there's a wide number of services that our um people are forced to use when uh they are not housed and it's detrimental to budgets and it's detrimental to society it's much cheaper to House people um however I think it's important to encourage L barrier shelters because and also programs that addresses populations that are most slow barrier [Music] because they're the most expensive persons that are on the streets they less likely to get off the streets they have extreme chronic health conditions and when you have people in shelter it encourages their sobriety by not leaving them open to extreme stressors that cause them for example to use methampetamine all night so they won't be sexually assaulted or have their stuff stolen etc etc so I I would just encourage um people to I know it's not an actionable item but I would just encourage people to look Beyond ideology and personal morality and look towards uh evidence-based and solutions thank you thank you when we next convene Samuel Dominic Leslie sharesh Alyssa Bailey and Craig will be first speakers if you wish to go we are adjourned city manager Jeff Barton assistant city manager Lori baz