This transcript is from a **White Bear Lake City Council** meeting. Based on the context and the names mentioned within the dialogue, I have identified the speakers (Mayor Dan Emerson, City Manager Lindy Crawford, Police Chief Swanson, Finance Director Ms. Kinswader, Community Development Director Jason Lindahl, and City Attorney Troy Gilchrist). [3:53] **Introductory Slide:** regeneration ideas [4:00] **[Music]** [4:18] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** yes [Music] powered up all right we're going to call the meeting to order where the clerk please note those in attendance all will be noted will you please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands with liberty and justice for all everyone has had a chance to review the minutes from the regular city council meeting on July 11 2023 if so it entertain a motion to approve the minutes I have a motion a second all those in favor say aye any opposed motion carries the minutes are approved item two B minutes of the city council work session on July 11 2023 at [5:04] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** entertain a motion to approve those minutes I have a motion a second all those in favor say aye any opposed motion carries minutes are approved item three adoption of the agenda are there any corrections or amendments to the agenda seeing none I'd entertain a motion to adopt the agenda so moved motion a second all those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries we have an agenda item four consent agenda it's a light one we have one issue on there I'd entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda motion a second all those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries scent agenda's adopted all right item five visitors and presentations we have finance department quarterly report Ms kinswader please [5:50] **Ms. Kinswader (Finance Director):** good evening Mr Mayor members of the council tonight I'm here to talk to you about the second quarter report for the finance department and for the license bureau operations as we look at the finance report there's not a whole lot to say things are going well we're on budget we're halfway through the year the one thing that I did want to point out is that in previous updates I've shared about our refuse fund that um when they're for the sale of the recyclables that if the revenues that we get from the sale of recyclables don't cost don't cover the cost of processing the recyclables then we have to pay and so we kind of watched that swing depending on where the recycling Market [6:36] **Ms. Kinswader:** is I'm excited to say that I think the recycling Market is swinging back up we got our first payment in May again so we paid through the end of last year the beginning of this year every month we had to pay an amount to process the recyclables but there was enough money in May from the sales that it covered the processing cost and then we received a check for that so I think that that is turning around that was an exciting point to point out the majority of my presentation will be about the license bureau tonight we've had a lot of changes and things that have happened in the last three months since we've had a chance to talk so the license bureau continues to be very busy as we look at the total number of transactions for the Department we're [7:21] **Ms. Kinswader:** slightly higher for the same period last year I'm in 2023 through the end of June we had 43 806 transactions and in 2022 we had 40 817. [7:37] **Ms. Kinswader:** the revenues have increased for the year in the months of May and June their two primary causes for that first it's kind of the kickoff to the summer we see our business pick up a lot in May and June as people get ready for the summer get their boating any DNR permits that they need people are generally off some so they stop in and are getting their driver's license so it's typically a busy time of the year what made this summer even more busy is with the closure of the Maplewood Deputy register's office so they are referring customers to come to our offices so there's typically a line most days the line tends to go fast so just kind [8:26] **Ms. Kinswader:** of trying to watch the line we see people come in kind of tracking it appears that even though the line Looks long for the most part people can get through in 15 to 20 minutes sometimes maybe 30 however there are days when it's really busy where people their wait times would be longer than that 30 minute time our staff is processing the transactions as fast as they can I think them now being used to the requirements for the real and enhanced IDs has really helped that process and then with when we have customers who do the pre-registration apps online so they fill out a lot of the information online and then come in [9:12] **Ms. Kinswader:** that helps shorten that transaction time so we've also been having a tab only line when possible because those are very fast transactions that we can get through so we'll have a staff member just be handling the tab renewals so that the people that are in for just that quick stop can get in and out so it's been going well we've had a big increase in the driver's license transactions I think back in 2019 in November we had the highest driver's license transactions that we had done was 119 in one day that's a lot of transactions for the how long it takes to do a driver's license application and recently we had a day [10:00] **Ms. Kinswader:** that had 115. we can see that when we look at the significant increase in the count of the driver's license transactions in April we did 1576 driver's license transactions in the month and in June we did 1919. so there's a significant uptick over the last couple of months our staff is efficiently helping people we see the transactions per hour increase even with the additional transactions that they're handling so they're working to get the customers through as much as possible another exciting part is the dealership transactions are increasing so we process a lot of the dealership [10:46] **Ms. Kinswader:** transactions when people purchase either a used or new car and there was a while during covid and kind of coming out of there where there haven't been as many car sales and so that is starting to pick up and that's a good source of revenue for our office in 2013 so far we've done 13 044 dealership transactions compared to 9790 that we did last year in the same time period so one thing I also wanted to talk about is in recent months we've had a couple of Staff members who have left to pursue other job opportunities so as we looked to replace those staff members instead [11:33] **Ms. Kinswader:** of replacing with full-time positions we've been replacing with multiple part-time positions and that's really offered some good coverage in the department it gives us a broader base of staff to be there so if someone is out sick or on vacation you're not down one employee for the whole day we have set times we have a morning shift a midday shift and an afternoon shift so if someone is out in within a couple of hours of being open the next person's coming in so we're we're having that extra staff to really be there to help the customers that's also helping us create a stable fund Financial picture so that we can be [12:19] **Ms. Kinswader:** here to provide the services for the customers that do come in as we look at what happened with the legislative session we don't see any big impacts of that right now but we will see some impacts as we go forward as part of the legislative activity they did do some fee increases this year that had been one of our legislative priorities so we're excited that there was some movement to kind of help with that effective October 1st we have two different fee increases the driver's license filing fee in will be increasing we will the city will retain three dollars more for every renewal driver's [13:06] **Ms. Kinswader:** license application we do and there will be eight dollars for every new driver's license application that we do so those fees are really what we need to help cover our costs because the fees that we were getting we've discussed this many times weren't covering just the cost of us to have staff here to operate with that so those fees will help us be able to cover those costs the second fee that goes into effect on that time there will be the motor vehicle the tab and filing fees will increase by a dollar for every transaction we'll have a dollar more and then on January 1st 2024 there will be a dollar surcharge that's added to [13:52] **Ms. Kinswader:** motor vehicle Tab and title transactions that we will be retaining that surcharge so I think the state is helping us be able to be successful in supporting our operations so that we can provide the service to the clients and then also on January 1st the driver's um the deputy registers will be able to provide accident reports to customers for a fee of ten dollars so if people need an accident report they can stop into the um our offices and pick it up after that time so that kind of wraps up my presentation that I have for you if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them [14:37] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** thank you Miss kinsbutter Council any questions [14:45] **Council Member Edberg:** thank you Mr Mayor Miss kinsweider so we have had a range of experience historically we have net income the last few years because of the factors you identified we have not do you have a sense of the magnitude of are you willing to make a projection for this calendar year based on year-to-date results Noah is an acceptable answer [15:30] **Ms. Kinswader:** members of the council I I right now know just as we kind of go through I think that we'll be close to budget there could be some you know we don't try to have extra monies um and we really want to have a balanced budget so that we are just taxing the residents and property owners for what we need for our operations um but right now we appear to be on track and I'm hoping that it continues well [15:30] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** okay any other questions for MS kinspotter thank you very much for the report we appreciate it keep up the good work thank you all right we'll jump into item 6A Ramsey County Emergency Management and Homeland Security grant for unmanned aerial vehicles and corresponding use policy Chief Swanson I believe you're taking this [16:16] **Police Chief Swanson:** thank you mayor members of the council I'm here today to talk about a grant that we submitted and received and asking that the council will accept that Grant and then just to discuss what it's for as part of the public hearing so look I'm asking that the council will consider approving a resolution accepting the Ramsey County Emergency Management and Homeland Security Grant the 2022 urban area security initiative also known as uasi which is a lot easier to say and this is covering um our desire to buy unmanned aerial Vehicles which is also known as drones so I think rather than stepping on my words all night long I'll probably refer to them as that so last year Ramsey [17:02] **Police Chief Swanson:** County Emergency Management submitted or sent out a request for Grant proposals and I had submitted one with the hopes of being considered for purchasing a drone the the funds were not available until this year and in January they received these UIC funds to provide resources to communities and enhance like combined emergency resiliency within Ramsey County um so if you're familiar with Ramsey County Emergency Management we brought a agenda item to you a few months ago that talks about our desire to work together in terrorism acts in Emergency Management situations and this is very [17:47] **Police Chief Swanson:** similar to that so these grants are intended to provide financial assistance to address different multi-jurisdictional planning organization and response within Ramsey County so in 2022-98 police agencies in Minnesota reported using drones in their four 3076 deployments of these deployments 20 2868 instances fell into four primary reason codes so when they're when they are reported to be used they when an agency uses them they have to report the use and the reason code for it and there are four primary reason codes that the majority of these instances fall under [18:33] **Police Chief Swanson:** and those reasons code reason codes include training or Public Relation purposes during or after the or during or in the aftermath of an emergency that involves the risk of death or bodily harm to a person to collect information from a public area where there's a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity or to collect information for crash reconstruction purposes after a serious or deadly Collision so several agencies within the metro area currently utilize drones and within Ramsey County it includes Ramsey County Sheriff Maplewood New Brighton and North St Paul police department as well as Roseville there have been several Public Safety calls in the past few years in White [19:18] **Police Chief Swanson:** Bear that we certainly could have utilized a drone for and occasionally we are able to request the assistance from another Agency for using the drones but it's not always available and it's obviously a lot quicker response if we have them ourselves we are and I'll talk about this in my PowerPoint but we are looking at ones that are equipped with thermal imaging and that would have been an invaluable resource for some of these calls some of the calls that come to mind is we had a drowning on White Bear Lake that this would have been utilized in and we frequently have missing vulnerable adults we have a lot of Elderly Care within the city and sometimes the dementia patients will walk away one in particular was this past winter during hockey day Minnesota weekend we had one leave an area near [20:07] **Police Chief Swanson:** Highway 96 and White Bear Parkway and the victim made it all the way up to hockey day Minnesota and if you were part hockey day in Minnesota you'll remember how cold it was that weekend and then obviously for suspects when they flee on foot from an incident or in our officer-involved shooting there were a number of drones used so because of these reasons we applied for the grant funding and we were selected to receive a grant to be utilized towards this it is a matching Grant we received fourteen thousand dollars for the purchase of two drones and then that will help cover the training and Readiness for legal operation so should the city accept that Grant there's a matching contribution and the total of this and I'll break it [20:55] **Police Chief Swanson:** down in my slides it over five years is thirty thousand dollars six three thirty thousand six hundred dollars and that includes equipment and software licenses training so staff will ask the city council to accept the grant funds and authorize the matching contribution so um should the city accept this grant I Know cover this in the slides as well but the use of drones is Guided by Minnesota State Statute 626.19 and it governs the use of drones specifically by law enforcement there's reasons that we are allowed to use them reasons that we're not allowed to use them there's the need for a public hearing there is the need for a policy that's posted on the website as well as [21:41] **Police Chief Swanson:** the reporting requirements that we when we utilize the Drone so per the statute the city must provide an opportunity for this public comment as we're asking today and that it should follow my presentation I believe so with the presentation just a little feed I mean a little back history I think that everybody is somewhat familiar with drones for the purpose of the statute they are referred to as unmanned aerial vehicles and it's a small aircraft without a pilot a crew or a passenger and to operate the Drone all components of the system are required which is what we have a proposal for and this includes the Drone [22:27] **Police Chief Swanson:** the base controller a human operator or Pilot an internal technology system to allow the controller to communicate with the Drone this is just a picture of the Drone that we are looking at um in if allowed to purchase two we would purchase two of the same um it's a drone that is provide or that is manufactured and sold through axon taser company they also do drones um and they drone itself is very lightweight and um they're very similar to ones that can be purchased by anybody they're not specific to law enforcement but utilized by law most law enforcement and the [23:14] **Police Chief Swanson:** significance to the one that we are looking at is that thermal imaging we feel that we have a lot of need for that our partners who got into the drones a lot sooner than us have recommended that and it it's not that's definitely not the most expensive drone it's not probably the cheapest drone but for having a lake having Winters it is a more effective use um of our resources so just a little bit about the capabilities um the flight radius is roughly around 10 miles they can it could fly the entirety of wiper Lake in wiper Township the battery life on them is not the longest as you can imagine it's about 38 minutes if they're just hovering 45 minutes flying time and they can fly in [24:03] **Police Chief Swanson:** the wind which is helpful to us after the last week that we've had and certainly it would have been helpful for us in the last week with some of the calls that we've had with the weather the smart Hazard avoidance flight is technology to hopefully not run it into something and like I said the perk to having our own would be that they are very easy to deploy and can be deployed within two minutes and they're very lightweight um so these uses are summarized from the statute so as I said the statute does require us to only use them for certain situations to include Public Safety emergencies it could be used in fire or police the policy that we will ask to implement is [24:49] **Police Chief Swanson:** a police policy and at this point we are just asking to license police officers the statute covers police only and law enforcement's use so certainly I know that fire would have a use for it but at this point the intention would be to keep it within police and have a police operator operate it because we fall under the statute and the policy covers our department um potentially use it for training you have the ability to use it for training crash reconstruction locating the missing or vulnerable adults or children if there's a signed warrant that is specifically requesting the use of the Drone and a judge issues the warrant again fugitive searches and then community events such as monitoring [25:35] **Police Chief Swanson:** traffic control or a public safety demonstration I at best I could see our use being um you know Fourth of July and Market Fest just with the traffic although yesterday would have been a good use of monitoring the traffic because our highways were at a standstill within the town um so by Statute law enforcement is not authorized to use the Drone in certain circumstances that violates a personal a person's reasonable expectation of privacy and it should not be weaponized or deployed with facial recognition or biometric technology and obviously the one that we're looking at Falls within statute but we are not able to add features to it that would violate somebody's expectation of privacy [26:23] **Police Chief Swanson:** um agencies that use a drone for the following or the statute as I said was became effective in August and agencies may use it for different reasons if there is not a warrant and as I said it was covered in a previous slide but emergency situations or to collect information from a public area if there's suspicion of criminal activity or over a public area for training and public relations purposes when I when we talk about the Reasonable Suspicion of criminal activity the typical response that comes out of Ramsey County is maybe there's somebody that's in a house and they run out the door they've assaulted somebody they run out the door and they're on foot that would certainly be [27:09] **Police Chief Swanson:** a good use of a drone it's um in in years past a lot of departments have used canines for you know suspect searches it's not always the safest thing it's not always it does not cover obviously the ground that a drone can cover and there's that risk of injury to the officer to the dog and to the suspect if you're using a canine the oversight of the drones is done through the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal apprehension so by January 15th of each year the police departments or the law enforcement agency that has a drone must report to the commissioner of Public Safety the number of times that the Drone was deployed without a search warrant the date and the authorized use [27:54] **Police Chief Swanson:** of the Drone and then the total cost of the agency's Drone program and so if you go to the Minnesota bca's website you'll see the report for the last three years and I was just searching through them as preparing for this meeting and the first year that they were required to be reported there were about a thousand instances that they were used and there were already about 90 different police departments using them and they're like I said it's it's tripled in the use and we have a draft policy developed that we just we took information and discussion through the Minnesota Chiefs of police and through other police departments that have utilized them and [28:41] **Police Chief Swanson:** also the Minnesota post board which oversees all of our policies and the Drone deployments will require an authorization by a sergeant captain or the police chief and uh in addition to this us being obligated by Statute their use of drones is also regulated by the federal government and the state of Minnesota so the drones must be registered with the Minnesota Department of Transportation the Federal Aviation Administration is the federal regulatory Authority for us in the United States so the drones would operate under the small aircraft Rule and that requires that the operator and pilot must obtain a remote pilot certification and operate operation must [29:27] **Police Chief Swanson:** comply with flight restrictions or waivers issued directly to the agency so here is the cost that I was referring to so the initial cost to purchase two of those grants um there are two of those drone kits and the training five pilot licenses which I'll discuss and then the Drone license is nineteen thousand seven hundred and sixty four dollars that would be for the first year we have the Fourteen thousand dollar grant that we have been awarded and then each year following it would be a sixty two hundred dollar and sixteen Cent annual cost and that is for the software um and the licensing of the drones so um the reason that we have five pilot [30:13] **Police Chief Swanson:** licenses listed is we have four shifts and so our hope would be to train an officer on each shift as well as a sergeant because we would want to make sure that there is somebody overseeing the program so as I said it covers the pilot licenses the Drone license and software where um the any technology that goes along with it any damage to the Drone is covered within those years um so earlier in my presentation I talked about a thirty thousand dollar cost that is over five years and um there is not an obligation to keep the drones for all five years if technology changes which I'm sure it will in three years we certainly can um opt out of the following couple of [31:00] **Police Chief Swanson:** years and then those costs would just be whatever we have opted to go to um so we will have a match of the first year of about five thousand dollars six thousand dollars in within our equipment um fund equipment acquisition fund we have had some costs come in less this year than anticipated specific with our squad car outfitting and our laptops that go within the squads so we do have some funds within the equipment acquisition fund that haven't been used that would not impact some of our other purchases to be able to match the grant for this year and then we would be responsible for the 6200 annually after this which can obviously we'll have to [31:46] **Police Chief Swanson:** find funding but we could use forfeiture funds for something like this as well as we will potentially have some funding coming from LGA Public Safety funds that will come to a future meeting and it is obviously an equipment piece that is able to be used through the public safety LGA funds so with that I certainly can take questions [31:46] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** thank you Chief I do have a couple questions but maybe first before we get to that I will now open it up for a public hearing for anyone who would like to speak to this issue please step forward state your name and address for the record and you shall be heard anyone all right I will close the public hearing bring it back to the council so chief [32:31] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** the idea of the drones makes sense if you tell me it's a necessary tool for law enforcement and you're confident that we can address probably what is the primary concern and that's privacy I think that's what folks are concerned about is the police going to send up a drone over my house and watch me and it sounds like we've got a policy in place to to kind of provide some safeguards for that my question is more around the economics of it so I'll start here why do we need two as opposed to one [33:18] **Police Chief Swanson:** thanks for the question mayor um I we have been asking that same question and so Roseville North St Paul and Maplewood and Ramsey County were early into the Drone use and so I did pull all of them to ask why you know why do they do they have one or two and why do they have more than one anybody who started with one immediately went to two and some of them are trying to get even more I understand that some of them are bigger agencies than us but North St Paul is not and their reasoning for it is they have had multiple situations where they will you know have a drone stay over one area so say they're at an apartment building and you know we had our officer involved shooting at a apartment the Drone would stay over it but then the second drone would go and search the immediate area it would it would fly out from that area there has been times when a drone has gone down for maintenance and as I said it's covered in our costs [34:05] **Police Chief Swanson:** some have not always had that alert system where they've run into something and then they do run into something and then they're down so they have said that once they have gotten the Drone or received the Drone they have become very reliant on it and to not have that backup drone or a second drone to be able to use has really you know halted some of their activities [34:05] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** okay and then the initial kind of acquisition costs not an expert by any means but I happen to have some time flying a drone and years ago got a drone pilot's license and it was like wow a book that I bought and studied and went and took a test it was 100 bucks so the initial cost seems kind of high and then the ongoing six thousand dollars for software I get that they're software and licenses but that's that's a lot of money each year so maybe you can speak a little bit to to where that's going [35:36] **Police Chief Swanson:** so each drone is about 6500 dollars so there's the Thirteen thousand dollars of it and then the initial cost of that is also the training um there is not for us it's not just reading a book we will have to have flight time and oversight by another pilot to make sure that they're Adept with it we obviously have a lot of restrictions more so than your average citizen would have some of that training is encapsulated into those costs the um I can't really speak to the annual costs other than I can tell you everything we seem to own costs a lot of money I mean body cams are a thousand dollars a piece per year because part of it's the data storage that goes along with that it's you know going to the data is going to a cloud it will fall under our retention period similar to body cams um and it just I I'm not an I.T person but I it is covering maintenance software license future licensing and then obviously the storage [36:21] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** okay okay and then you you mentioned that it covers it if it crashes or breaks or something so there's some kind of insurance element to what we're paying for then correct and do you have some feedback from other agencies do these things Crash from time to time often every once in a great while I don't know what the success rate is um one agency did they crashed one into a lake and lost it it was a river and one agency has ran it into a building so there are and they don't they're not real durable when that happens so there were uh I mean I I don't know the how often it is I mean both or all the agencies I pulled have only been using them roughly about three years and it was only four agencies that I talked to two of them had incidents [36:21] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** okay [Music] well those are the questions that I have council do we have any other questions for the chief council member edberg [37:07] **Council Member Edberg:** thank you Mr Mayor so Chief I'm curious okay there are two parts of your presentation first is um fire department is I was not clear as to whether they will be permitted use access to the UAV under police operation or if they are not permitted at all can you clarify how the use of the Drone fits into our fire operations if at all [37:55] **Police Chief Swanson:** certainly mayor members of the council at this point it is going to remain with the police department because the policy is a police department policy the statute you know we're purchasing it with uasi funds with the intention that it will be used for Police use and we are governed with higher standards than fire would be but we do go say there's a fire we go on a fire call so we had a significant fire in the city a couple of months back there were several police officers on site it certainly we expect that we will help fire as we do with any fire situation and operate the Drone within that if as time goes on we are able to to have a joint drone with the fire department then certainly they would just need to be trained it's not that we don't want to share it it's just that we are unable to share it based on statute and our policies and with the intention of why we're buying it we're buying it under funds that were utilized towards law enforcement agencies [38:41] **Council Member Edberg:** okay my preference would be we make it as usable by all parts of the city as quickly and reasonably as possible um it's like it's being purchased for Public Safety which in our situation we think of fire department as Public Safety so whatever we need to do to make that work the second piece though unlike the mayor I'm not as familiar with um I'm concerned about the unintended Gathering and retention of data so we're flying over a congested Street we're looking at traffic issues and it happens to pick up other stuff that might prove usable in other kinds of prosecutions whatevers is that an allowable use is that what what what policy and it says we have it I don't know what it is so can you elaborate what those policies on retention and storage of or gathering and retention of data on other kinds of things that come that happen as a result of use [40:14] **City Attorney Gilchrist:** um that's a good question and it might be a better question for the attorneys in the room however our data retention policy and I can't quote it verbatim because there are about nine different categories and different times if we have an arrest obviously we keep that data for two you know longer two years if it if a drone will fall under very similar guidelines whereas if we have our officer involved shooting we would retain that data for two years if we have it over Market Fest to monitor traffic it's going to purge within seven days and if we found somebody assaulting somebody yes as we're monitoring traffic at 61 and 96 for some reason and we saw that a crime was committed certainly we are obligated to gather more facts it might lead the officer to the area but they're going to be obligated to still uncover more information and I don't know if our City attorney has more to add to that so Mr Mayor and Council just from the statute quickly it specifically says data collected by a UAV or private data on individuals or non-public data and then it goes on and lists some specific examples of uh classifications elsewhere but importantly uh at the end it says notwithstanding the statute that talks about record retention uh law enforcement agency must delete data collected by UAV UAV as soon as possible and no event later than seven days after the collection unless the data is part of an active criminal investigation so there's a purging of the non-criminal and anything that is on that is classified as as non-public so there's there's quite a bit of protection from my perspective on this [41:45] **Police Chief Swanson:** mayor if I may add in our policy that's in your packet of prohibited use is um uh outlined in our in our proposed policy include to conduct random surveillance activities to Target person based solely on on actual or perceived characteristics such as race ethnicity national origin relation religion sex sexual orientation Etc to harass intimidate or discriminate against any individual or group and to conduct personal business of any type [41:45] **Council Member Edberg:** that's I that I'm comforted that that's not something that we can send the Drone up to do what I'm curious about and and it's the inadvertent it's the um the other stuff that comes along with a legal use and how that applies and um I think my sense is the spirit of the laws that those activities should be protected that people should be expected their otherwise private activities private [42:31] **Police Chief Swanson:** body cameras you know body cameras occasionally uh when we go on calls I mean I know I understand that it's different because we've been called there but say you're at Market Fest and your body cam catches something because the body cam was on we certainly have the ability to redact we purge it it's you know there are a lot of guidelines in place by Statute as on how to use drones it will say that typically like I said they're used for searching there was one deployed within our community a half hour ago it was in the township but it was to search for a missing individual that was with somebody and they were gone they deployed it found the person and then they're done and that data would not be kept because the sole purpose was to bring the person to safety [42:31] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** okay I think maybe if I can elaborate on that because maybe what your question is if I'm hearing you correctly and I don't want to put words in your mouth is let's say we're sending up at setting up the Drone for surveillance of X and we discover why inadvertently and unlike body cams it is by definition much more invasive and expansive because a body cam can go wherever a person can go and a drone can cover a much wider area so I think the point is that is a concern that's why we have to be very careful about policies and from a legal standpoint yeah it does it does open the public up to some scrutiny and some potential prosecution for things that would not otherwise have been observed I think that's an unavoidable kind of uh consequence of this and that's why this Council should take it seriously and why we need to have policies in place and why we need to put the Trust In The Police Department to to not do things that they shouldn't be doing but I don't think we can get around that that's just gonna kind of be out there and we've got constitutional law and all kinds of legal arguments that you can make if you find yourself in the crosshairs of that happening so any other questions councilmember Walsh [44:51] **Council Member Walsh:** well thank you Mr Mayor just kind of picking up on the fire department issue but under the proposed uh [Music] um the draft uh proposal I guess for for rules number six use of the Drone item I the last one on the list for purposes unrelated to law enforcement at the request of a government entity is allowed you know provide their questions and writing and specifies a reason well who would that be would that be like engineering you want to go you know use it for for another entity within the city or that's kind of that's that doesn't sound like the fire department because they're not going to ask for it in writing in advance [45:39] **Police Chief Swanson:** mayor members of the council I can address that um when we were selected for the UIC Grant um Ramsey County Emergency Management prioritized drones in that for the intent that it would help with flooding it would help with tornadoes it would help with disaster recovery and I think that the intent of that section is more for that that combined Emergency Management or FEMA or and as I said we're not opposed to fire using it it's just new to us and we have to just continue to explore you know what our uh you know what our options are so that we're not violating statute not violating our policies or the Minnesota post board regulations over us but again we partner on the majority of their calls as it is and are happy to work with them on that [45:39] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** thank you Council any other questions or comments on this all right well we have a resolution before us approving accepting the Ramsey County Emergency Management and Homeland Security 2022 urban areas security initiative Grant that's a mouthful I would entertain a motion to approve that well I'll move approval Mr Mayor any further discussion [47:10] **Council Member Walsh:** just just to comment I'm glad we got to talk about privacy that was my number one concern I'm I'm pretty satisfied with the state law it's not nobody can do a data practices request and ask for our Drone footage it's it's noted in law as private which which is good and then the purge is really good immediately or within seven days so when I saw that felt a little better about just random drones over neighborhoods or or backyards um so I think I'm confident but but I'm glad we got to talk about it in public because those were my concerns too so [47:10] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** any other further discussion on this all those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries in the resolution passes thank you foreign item 6B second reading of an interim moratorium ordinance operation of cannabis businesses Ms Crawford are you taking this [47:57] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** I am the um the mayor was mayor excuse me mayor members of the council um tonight we do have a second reading of um uh interim oratorium ordinance for the operation of cannabis businesses in the city of White Bear Lake so as we shared the last city council meeting the Minnesota Legislature enacted and the governor signed the 2023 Minnesota law Minnesota session laws chapter 63 as we all know HF number 100 from now on we're going to call it the ACT so this act provides local governments of cities a certain Authority related to cannabis businesses including the authority to require local registration of certain cannabis businesses operating retail establishments adopt a reasonable restrictions on the time place and manner of the operation of the Cannabis business provided that such restrictions do not prohibit The Establishment or operation of a cannabis business limit the number of certain cannabis businesses based on the population of the community and prohibit the operation of cannabis businesses within one thousand feet of a school or 500 feet of a daycare Residential Treatment Facility or an attraction with a within a public park that regularly is used by minors including playgrounds and athletic fields um as we've shared the ACT does require um the enactment of the office of cannabis management or ocm that was established July 1st there to work with local cities to develop model ordinances for reasonable restrictions on the time place and manner of the operation of cannabis businesses the ACT does expressly allow the cities that is it does allow cities time to conduct studies has authorized the study to be conducted or has held a scheduled public hearing for the purpose of considering the adoption of or amendment of a reasonable restriction so long story short we have the authority to adopt an interim ordinance which places a moratorium on the establishment of cannabis businesses within our city for a portion now unto until January 1 2025 so given the uncertainty regarding all of this new legislation and the lack of model ordinances yet to be developed by ocm I do recommend that the city council does adopt interim ordinance imposing that moratorium to protect the health safety and journal welfare of wiper Lake residents businesses and citizens until we can further study this so in your packet again is that proposed ordinance what has changed since the first reading is language was added to article six exceptions to address the city's active moratorium prohibiting the sale of cannabis products which was approved September 27 2022 we did just add a sentence in there to accurately reflect that we do still have that moratorium so again this this ordinance does authorize us staff to conduct study during that term of the ordinance no business person or entity May establish or operate a cannabis business business within City Limits The violation of this ordinance would be a misdemeanor and the ordinance is proposed to become effective the first day of publication after adoption and would remain in effect until January 1 2025 unless the city council chose to amend it or put reasonable restrictions in place that would expire the moratorium sooner so with that the City attorney and I can stand for any questions that you may have [51:03] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** thank you at this time when we open it up for the public hearing anyone who would like to speak to this issue can step forward to the podium State their name and address and uh offer your comments would anyone like to speak to this issue please [51:46] **Solomon Haile:** hello everyone my name is Solomon my address is my business address is 2000 County Road E East White Bear Lake Avenue Solomon can you state your last name for the record Salomon highly h-a-i-l-e please so uh my question is and I've talked to you in the past and our neighboring city is allowing the low dose THC product to be sold in liquor stores and Grocery and tobacco stores and as a white beer business owner we're losing a lot of business we're getting customers we have to send them two minutes from our city and I'm just asking that the the city of white beer are thinking about the business owners that we're losing business because of it that's all I have thank you [52:33] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** would anyone else like to speak to this issue seeing none I will close the public hearing and bring it back to the council well I'm going to offer my initial comments here so I support the the interim moratorium if for no other reason I I think the state legislature should be ashamed of themselves for passing a broad and sweeping law and setting an effective date that is so quick before the regulatory bodies can develop the rules and necessary kind of backfilling of regs to figure out how we're all going to deal with this I also resent the fact that other states that have legalized cannabis have deferred to local municipalities to have much more control over governing what happens in our city whereas we were basically told the state's going to license it you can Zone it a little bit and that's it so at a minimum I think the city of White Bear Lake needs to just take a beat figure out how this is all going to play out and that's what this uh that's what this interim moratorium does and if if the powers that be at the state government figure out how to do this safely and somewhat properly and it's the city of White Bear Lake's desire to put some regulatory structure in place to allow the sale of cannabis and white bear prior to January 1st of 2025 I'm open to have that discussion but for right now with a brand new law that's a couple months old and no real estate guidance on this I think we we as a city need to take a pause and figure out how we're going to do this safely as we kind of enter in this whole new era of legalized marijuana in the state of Minnesota so those are my thoughts and I would urge the council to support the moratorium anyone else have any thoughts on this [54:39] **Council Member Walsh:** well thank you Mr Mayor just first a question um our current moratorium on edible cannaboid products um expires when I guess I've forgotten October September 27th I think it is September 27th that's going to expire uh we're not going to uh there's no plans to re-up that I don't believe right I mean that's it's not the wish of the council to re-up that at this point I don't think we can but defer to our City attorney [55:26] **City Attorney Gilchrist:** so Mr Mayor in Council correct so what we're working on at the direction of council was a licensing ordinance to go into effect prior to the expiration of that to allow edible cannabinoids to be sold in tobacco shops and liquor stores so that's coming our way relatively soon [55:26] **Council Member Walsh:** so does that solve the business owners concerns I mean so we'll get we'll get on the same footing as our neighbors at least if we move quickly on the on that piece no one can compete on the other level in the state yet on the on the THC no one or on the sorry on the Cannabis or marijuana sales no one can do that so I just want to make sure we got the Level Playing Field going so that's coming uh soon uh which will open that up when our moratorium ends okay I just want to clarify that so [56:12] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** yep so we are talking about um right now that we do have currently have uh presently have an interim moratorium ordinance regarding the low dose um hem the low potent THC this is what I'm going to call it this moratorium um is different in that it is right it prohibits the business operation or dispensary if you will so we are talking we will be coming back to talk about an interim licensing structure until that is set up through the OC through the state through ocm so we will be talking about that in our upcoming couple of meetings as well which I believe letters are going to be issued I think they went out in the mail today to all of our tobacco license holders liquor stores in town just outlining the next couple of months what we'll be talking about here [56:59] **Council Member Jones:** Thank you Mr Mayor I Echo everything and agree I will add to the point and the problem with the law I am confused with the amount of push on it I don't care either way I support legalized cannabis but not the way it's rolled out I I'm dumbfounded by the way the state of Minnesota is not following tobacco and alcohol policies at the same time it just I don't know why we need to create a whole new other beeratic institution to do so but that's not what we're here to talk about here's what the problem is that I have a law one thing it's like I have a store that would potentially be selling it in my ward and currently the state law is saying that you have to be can't be between 1200 feet of a school property playground whatever it did this one is going to come within that distance and so there's is it close enough is it to the center of the property is it to the edge of the property Corner nothing no no nothing so how is my city staff how is my police chief supposed to manage any of that and this wasn't written much better than the THC where half the elected officials will arguably half turned around when they approved THC last year did we just approve Pat they didn't even know that's the incompetency that's going on with all of this and again I don't want to speak for the council I'll speak for me we do support both it's just managing it is turning out to be not so easy for multiple levels of the city staff so therefore like the mayor said take a breath step back just wait and I'm sorry with the Cannabis aspect you're not losing any sales yet maybe you will so thank you Mr Mayor [58:31] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** anyone else have a comment on this seeing none well you're looking for a motion yeah I would entertain a motion to approve the uh interim ordinance imposing the moratorium so I'll move I'll move the um I have a motion a second any further discussion [59:17] **Council Member Walsh:** just just to add on your comments Mr Mayor I agree um I don't like any of it but but we don't get to make certain decisions those have been made for us by the legislature we need the moratorium we need the time if we get done early and everything falls into place I wouldn't have a problem with rolling it out we don't take every last minute just to get the regulatory scheme in place before the state is ready but we're not ready right now we need a lot of work to be done so [59:17] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** all right any further discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries the ordinance is adopted uh we have a second action item and that is the accompanying resolution approving the summary publication of said interim ordinance by title in summary I would entertain a motion to approve that resolution I have a motion a second any further discussion on the resolution seeing none all those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries in the resolution if you'd indulge uh it's not on the agenda but it was on this topic are we soon going to work on um what am I trying to uh an ordinance related to nuisance and Public public use is that coming our way I know some other cities are doing that something we can do immediately don't have to wait for the state on that so if we examine that question I can't remember what we talked about [1:00:03] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** yeah that's a good question I asked that and I think there was some confusion I think our city manager or City attorney can clarify whether or not it's it's currently prohibited from use in public spaces or if the municipality has to affirmatively pass an ordinance to prohibit that so uh Mr Gilchrist maybe you can Enlighten us [1:00:49] **City Attorney Gilchrist:** so Mr mayor council it is my understanding though admittedly I haven't uh drilled down on this particular issue all that much my understanding is that no it's it's not prohibited in public that's why local governments have the authority to um to adopt the ordinance prohibit public use there are some definitions about what's considered public or not making it clear that certain things are not public so they can't prohibit within a home you know those sorts of things uh it is a petty misdemeanor one thing the city manager and I had a brief communication on this and and I know in the work session the council has talked about this too some some level of parity between public use of Tobacco liquor uh and and cannabis uh so one approach and I guess a recommended approach that I would have uh if if the council is so on client is to look at all of that and and what's allowed in public parks or not and try to come up with some sort of Level Playing Field if if you will on that so if I'm looking for direction I guess from the council but yes my thought is that would really need to be a standalone ordinance because we're drafting this what is ultimately a temporary licensing scheme some zoning regulations and this really isn't a zoning regulation so I really see it as falling into a standalone ordinance [1:01:35] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** well in terms of some direction I'll tell you where I stand on that as far as I know we currently prohibit the use of alcohol in a public park and there's no reason why we shouldn't prohibit the use of marijuana usage in a public park I think that makes good sense so I would I would I would support that and there are certainly some nuances with what constitutes a public space but I think that's where we start and I would like to I'd like to see a draft ordinance that that brings it into parity with how we regulate smoking and and more importantly alcohol use so that's that's what I'd like to see I don't know where else the council falls on this if the staff's not busy enough you know [Laughter] there's anyone else on the council have a thought on that councilmember edberg [1:02:22] **Council Member Edberg:** yeah thank you Mr Mayor so our society has made peace made its peace on easy as it might be on the use of alcohol and tobacco they're poisons they do bad things to people but we say that's part of what we accept as a society the more that we can place cannabis regulation in a same mode so that if it's legal for one it's legal for all three if it's illegal for one it's illegal for all three to allow some consistency in understanding and knowing what what those regulatory approaches would be I think that makes sense from a from a youth standpoint from a from a personal standpoint that's that's so seeking parity not not looking for something special but seeking parity makes sense to me [1:03:09] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** someone else on the Council of a thought on that just couldn't care what yes okay so it sounds like the direction from the council is let's see we'd like to see a draft ordinance that that regulates the use of of cannabis or marijuana in the same way that we regulate the use of alcohol and tobacco did you have something to add Miss Crawford [1:03:54] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** I was just going to say we can other cities are doing that we can model theirs this shouldn't be very difficult but we will take some time to evaluate our existing ordinances so we will try and bring that back to you probably at the second August council meeting for first reading [1:03:54] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** all right very good let's move on to item 7A second reading of an ordinance rezoning property located at 2687 County Road D plan unit development and preliminary and final plat just for a window whenever you're ready to go fire away [1:04:33] **Jason Lindahl (Community Development Director):** thank you Mr Mayor members of the council as you mentioned this uh item is the second reading of an of uh rezoning ordinance and then uh uh consideration of action on the associated rezoning uh uh subdivision and uh plan unit development for the property located at 2687 County Road D um for some context again located just to the west of County Road D and Century Avenue or just north of Interstate Highway 694. [1:05:10] **Jason Lindahl:** the applicant and I'm sorry I should probably start by saying um as you mentioned this is the second reading and now consideration of action staff has spent a considerable time at the public hearing with the Planning Commission going over this application in detail and then also at the first reading giving the council a very detailed briefing and we'll try to go through the information here in highlights tonight and then respond to questions from the council or or the public but just as a way of reminder 14 bed uh nursing home Memory Care Facility the rezoning is from the existing B2 limited business to RB residential business transition which is necessary to allow this particular use subdivision of the property because again the existing property straddles County Road D and the applicant is only developing the southern piece and then a plan unit development to address a couple minor deviations from that uh proposed RB zoning um there were no comments that came through from the concept plan review in the neighborhood meeting or the public hearing or the first reading that occurred at the council at your last meeting and both the Planning Commission and staff are recommending approval of these items the rezoning discussion really is the second reading here tonight and and the detailed first step of what we're talking about we went into much more detail about the criteria as you see here on the screen and there is much more detail in here staff report about the findings related to this to summarize staff fines that the proposed application is consistent with the six criteria that are necessary for review or rezoning um the Platt was the subject of some conversation at the last uh or excuse me at the first reading it was noted that there were uh that staff had directed the applicant to designate the northern peace as an outlet for potential future development that is now shown clearly on the plot that the applicant has revised and submitted and by definition an outlet cannot be developed on its own the applicant would need to come in to file a a second edition of this particular plot with future development at such time that they would do that um the Pud analysis again allows flexibility from those certain zoning standards in the in the proposed zoning in exchange for that higher quality development in this case it's necessary allow necessary to allow that decreased uh East Side yard setback and some different hard surface setback standards that the applicant is proposing and exchange the Inc the applicant is offering increased amounts of landscaping and enhanced exterior materials um the proposed again deviations are proposed again on the site plan with a proposed 10-yard or excuse me 10 foot setback along that East property line and then those red areas showing the the locations where the sidewalk would be closer uh to the building elevation and plans are included in your packet and we've been through these floor plan also included in your packet landscape plan shows significant Landscaping throughout the side the location of storm water and the like uh I mean with that staff would recommend approval um of the items uh included in your packet again that ordinance uh for the rezoning a resolution granting preliminary and final plat and a resolution uh granting General and development stage plan unit development approvals again for the property located at 2687 County Road D and with that I'd stand with any for any questions [1:09:01] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** thank you Mr Lindell was the counselor calls at the first reading we I think we discussed this at length and we saw it at the initial phase in our planning process so it looks like a good project I recommend approval but anyone have any thoughts on this or does someone want to uh council member edberg [1:09:47] **Council Member Edberg:** thank you Mr Mayor so I do not have an issue with the with the project on the southern portion I'm your language confused me and I'm not sure if that's because I'm confused and confusable um so the memo identifies Mr winges as the applicant the and also identifies lower below that both Mr Bruggeman who has been the owner of that parcel as an applicant along with Mr wenges and you talked about Outlaw and I don't recall the outlaw conversation from our last meeting so my understanding of that so we have a parcel separated by County Road D the southern portion is what we are looking at to rezone and authorize the memory care facility on the southern lot I have no issues with any of that my understanding from our last meeting was that Mr wenges was purchasing that property and would be the new owner and that the northern portion which is not under discussion here is going to be owned by Mr Bruggeman subject to all of our prior actions on rezoning etc etc but you're right so I'm not clear on the who's owning what when we get done with this who and what authorities and I really don't have any opposition to what's what might happen on there I just want to have Clarity and I don't have Clarity right now help me out [1:10:32] **Jason Lindahl:** mayor members of the council um the applicant is here and maybe can clarify that but but I would just summarize for you um uh that the you are correct that the applicant is going to be the owner of the Southern Property um and that the current owner of the property Mr bergerman is going to remain and retain ownership of the northern portion of the property so because of the separate now ownership and we we separated the parcels um and staff's comments about how the northern parcel is portrayed on the plat was simply to just um emphasize um from council's questions during the first reading of this that the northern portion of the property does not receive any approvals or any entitlements of part of as part of this process the technical way we do that when a piece of property is plotted is to designate it as an outlaw which by definition in our subdivision code says that this property can't be developed until such time the owner would come in platted as a as a specific lot for a specific project so for that conversation that would be Mr ruggemann being the applicant because he's the owner of the northern property and he would be the individual you would deal with because Mr Winters is not going to own that portion you're operating the southern portion so the future discussion will be with Mr Bruggeman am I picturing all of this correctly all right I'm cool thank you works for me thank you [1:12:52] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** counsel any other comments questions on this if not I'd entertain a motion to approve the ordinance rezoning I'll second it there's motion a second any further discussion on this just a I think it's a great use of the as we said before great use of a piece of land that would be otherwise very hard to develop I will say something you said and I think the first time you're here has kind of stuck with me so you said that your your parking needs are not that great because unfortunately not many people come to visit so I guess my hope is that we have a parking problem in this place I hope people come and visit these folks more than happen thank you all right any further discussion on this if not I add I'll call for the vote all those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries the ordinance is adopted we have two accompanying resolutions first resolution is resolution granting preliminary and final plat approval an entertain a motion to approve that Resolution Group nice I have a motion a second any further discussion on that seeing knowing all those in favor say aye aye aye opposed motion curious resolution passes second resolution resolution granting General and development stage planned unit development approval for the property located at 26.87 County Road DIA to entertain a motion to approve that resolution I have a motion a second any further discussion seeing none all those in favor say aye aye any opposed the motion carries and the resolution is passed thank you appreciate it thank you all right let's jump into item 7B second reading of an ordinance rezoning property located at 2502 County Road E planned unit development and preliminary and final plat Mr lindahl [1:14:25] **Jason Lindahl:** thank you Mr Mayor members of the city council as you mentioned again here tonight similar to our last item this is the second reading of the rezoning ordinance and consideration of the accompanying rezoning subdivision proposal and PUD proposal in this case the property in question is at 2502 County Road E which is the vacant Petro wash station um again we've been through several presentations about this and so staff's goal here tonight is to just provide some background and context we certainly have as much detail and information as the council would want but I'll go through this relatively quickly just to provide context and set up the console action so again uh just as a reminder The Proposal that's before you tonight is for a nine unit for sale town home development that would rezone uh the rezoning is from uh is to our five uh single single family and two family medium density residential the subdivision gets into into nine townhome lots and two accompanying out Lots in common areas and driveways and then the accompanying plan unit development for some deviations from that R5 requested zoning the Planning Commission and staff are recommending approval of these items so we've given you lots of information in the past about uh the the condition of the current site we'd be happy to answer any questions or provide any reminders about that site but again vacant uh uh gas station uh since um um at least 2013. um there was a concept plan review process that looked at up to 18 units on this site with a with an apartment and uh three town homes um and that went through our process uh and had a neighborhood meeting Planning Commission review and console uh based on that feedback the applicant came back with a full application for a total of 17 units on the site which included a smaller slightly smaller apartment building and the and then also three town homes that met all of the performance standards but those Street side setbacks and the Planning Commission reviewed that I am supported in the council also reviewed that item but could not support it and ultimately the applicant then decided to withdraw that application and come back in with what's before you tonight the nine town home version we've talked in detail in the past about the list of changes that the applicant has made to bring the site into substantial compliance in many areas or and exceed other areas quite honestly of the zoning ordinance and those are listed before you on the screen again staff can go into any detail that you uh May request um the elevations here on the screen are also included in your package show the concept designs of what those uh nine units could look like and the activated outdoor uh Courtyard area here at the intersection similarly a view now from the back side of the property from Jansen Avenue showing the backsides of the two buildings the community room and the uh uh surface parking lot detailed elevations uh uh in your packet uh similarly this slide talks about the rezoning and the criteria related to that and staff has gone into great detail and the staff report is listed extensive findings related to how this site and proposal meet the rezoning criteria the next series of slides goes into the detail about those but I will go through those come back to any particulars that the that the council may have I would just pause here on this side and note again uh that the image on the right side of this slide indicates where and with red circles where the applicant is proposing or asking for slight deviations from the setback standards and where the green circles indicate where they either meet or exceed the setback standards for the neighborhood and the overall here intention again of to front this uh this development towards the street more consistent with our future land use classification but also to create the biggest buffer and distance from the neighboring properties um again more rezoning criteria some of the amenities that the applicant is is going to do here the outdoor Courtyard that we saw in the elevation pictures a few moments ago the uh rehabilitated uh Car Wash building in the lower right hand corner of of this image on the screen and then the actual sidewalk that the applicant will build and then dedicate to the city um the subdivision analysis again goes into detail about how the applicant will subdivide those lots and and is asking for slightly smaller uh uh townhome Lots on this property um it does include a park dedication um in this case also because the property is being subdivided then there um is information on the stormwater management that um we can staff can go into if the if the console has questions [1:20:55] **Jason Lindahl:** yeah so I'll just mayor members of the council I'll just go over very quickly the site plan that is before you tonight has gone through all the review and and uh acceptance process from a stormwater management standpoint they're providing a bio filtration Basin at the southeast Corner that meets all of the engineering and Watershed District requirements and will ultimately discharge cleaner water than the existing site does today the other thing that I will notice that upon completion of the project they will be required to submit a storm water maintenance and operations manual or agreement that will outline the uh what they need to do to clean maintain operate that system to make sure that it is maintained to a standard that they're approved under so than just the last few slides here again this slide summarizes the Pud exchange where the applicant requests some of those deviations that we talked about and set back in minimum lot size in exchange for a higher quality development and the list of of items that the applicant is is offering in exchange is here listed on the screen and we've talked about a lot in his detail in your staff report so with that again staff would recommend approval of the rezoning ordinance in this case again to R5 single and two family medium density residential approval of resolution granting preliminary and final plat approvals and approval of resolution granting General and development stage plan unit development approval for that property at 2502 County Road E and with that staff would stand for questions [1:21:41] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** thank you Mr Wendell I also want to thank Mr mckillion and element design build for their their commitment to developing this site I supported the previous project and as you recall there are some large pushback from the neighbors and that's that's why we have the process in place and to the the developers credit they went back to the drawing board and I think came up with a great project that's going to be a huge benefit to that site so I would urge the council to support this and let's let's improve that site and hopefully it'll lead to even more development along that four corners that is long overdue for for some development so Council what would we like to do with this council member edberg [1:22:26] **Council Member Edberg:** thank you Mr Mayor so I'm supportive of the project and I intend to make a motion momentarily um I want to call out and recognize the challenges of working with this site its size relatively small specific location at a busy intersection it's an adjacency to neighbor neighborhoods it's just been it's it's a challenging site I too want to express appreciation to uh the new Builders and owners of that site for their work in the community and for bringing back this project I'd like to uh my personal sense number one I greatly appreciate the fencing and buffering between the neighbors and the the new development I think that's a a huge win and I appreciate that I do not find the density to be too too dense for that property or for the neighborhood in general I appreciate that the height is lower than the maximum or less than what it could have been um I appreciate the storm water work the folks are on Peppertree Pond are very uh they are zealous in their in their desire to protect and preserve and defend that uh that little water feature uh and do all that they can to keep it a positive environmental future um the addition of stormwater treatment provides much better protection of runoff water than what anything we have currently so it's it's a double win there's it's just plain good for everything um I like the design I think it activates in a positive way and I like I'm looking forward to seeing more folks walking in that neighborhood walking on and near that property um I want to note a couple of other things I think it approval of this design avoids some of the risk that I think the city might otherwise have faced in the sense of what other permitted commercial uses could have been legitimately cited there in my mind most of them would have been inferior to in fact all of them would have been inferior to the proposals that we have in front of us so there's a defensive purpose in in saying this is not only a good thing in its own name but it also avoids the complications of other potential uses that could have come before us um the uh particular aspect of this completes one corner of a very blighted intersection it's being done through private capital it's done through the creation of housing that is inside of our desired range of the type and scale of housing the price point of housing that fits our community's needs and plans so I don't have anything bad to say about this I will be delighted to move the uh make the motion to approve the rezoning second my motion a second to uh for the ordinance rezoning property at 2502 to go from B3 to R5 any further discussion on that seeing none all those in favor say aye aye any opposed carries in the ordinance to rezone passes we have two resolutions that accompany this uh and entertain a motion to prove the resolution granting preliminary and final plat approval for the Wildwood row homes Edition within the city of White Bear Lake still moved second I'll have a motion a second any further discussion seeing none all those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries resolution passes second resolution I'd entertain a motion to prove the resolution granting General and development stage planned unit development approval for the property at 2502 County Roadie so move right motion a second any further discussion seeing none all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed that motion carries and resolution passes thank you appreciate it [1:27:02] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** if I may really quickly sure I just want to thank the developer and this has been a long process staff has worked very hard the council has worked very hard the neighborhood has worked very hard with a new process that we put in place earlier this year so thank you for your patience and working with our community and and welcome appreciate it [1:27:02] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** thank you let him eat new business we have nothing scheduled item nine planning and land use regulation working group Mr lindahl I believe you're taking this [1:27:49] **Jason Lindahl:** mayor yes Mr Mayor members of the council I'm sorry just to take a second to find my memo here um we uh staff is before you tonight to ask for feedback regarding the formation of a steering committee to guide the um and to ask for the council to consider uh designating one of its members to serve on this steering committee we have reached a point in the preparation process to get started on this that the formation of this steering committee or guiding group is is our next step the group generally will provide feedback and guidance to staff and the consultant team throughout the process of drafting the updated regulations and serve as uh to provide updates into the Liaisons back to the Planning Commission group and the city council itself throughout the 18-month process to keep those two groups brought more broadly informed of of the process as it's going um The Proposal is that this group will meet approximately six times throughout an 18-month process and be asked to be part of uh right now as it's planned to open house style meetings um in working with the consultant team uh staff believes the committee should be made up of about nine um uh residents um and that those particular members represent various land use and Community issues in on that group and and and carry those uh perspectives forward so um just to design you know to kind of give the council a structure of what this group could look like there's a list of of groups and interests that staff is recommending be included in this group just if you have your memo in front of you I'll just go down the list quickly one city council representative we're proposing two Planning Commission Representatives at this point an environmental advisory commission a representative a member from The Economic Development Corporation or EDC a member from the County Road E Corridor study a housing task force representatives from that group that had done some work in the past here for us a representative from the Historical Society especially related to how the historical character will be important to be represented and how we prepare the ordinance a member from the Arts Community or a representative from the Arts culture and educational study that was done a few years ago a representative that can speak to mobility and transportation issues and then a representative from Century College um this group um I would just also uh note you know this group is designed and intended to be fairly small but targeted to those particular issues that are most critical to to developing a a zoning code that will not only in entail and maintain the the character and design of the current Community but think about those future things and aspects that we want to include as growth occurs um so keeping this group within a fairly small and manageable uh number of people will help for just also the logistical and scheduling reasons related to that now that's also um not to say that there won't be other broader public engagement that will incur as part of this process um the overall right now at the minimum the public engagement would include those open houses that I mentioned um an online website that will be constantly updated with information related to this so that the public has 24 7 access to whatever is happening the latest information on the project the consultant team also actually recommends a series of focus groups towards the beginning of the process that we could Target to specific groups that may also be important to be represented and then again just those more specific updates back to the Planning Commission and city council at their meetings as these as the group meets and goes through its process to keep the overall Council and Planning Commission informed of of how that process is coming along um again so with that staff is asking for feedback on the formation and makeup of this particular group and then a designation a consideration or at least discussion of a representative from the council to serve on that group [1:32:28] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** thank you Mr lindahl I'll keep my comments brief this is a good road map I think this makes sense the idea of a steering committee makes sense and all of these entities that you've recommended I don't see any reason not to and so the only thing I have to say beyond that is as far as the city council representative uh if if council member wall should be willing to serve I'd nominate him if there are others that want to throw their hat in the ring that's fine but uh I thought he'd be a good fit for this so I'll get the discussion started with that [1:33:14] **Council Member Jones:** I don't know if I want to say strongly or not I would strongly recommend having two City College members on it 11 I know there's 10 categories my recommendation probably don't be around to be one of those so I'm not volunteering that's a new doctor I'm talking to you I can't hear you they can hear me up to you I totally respect you are the mayor you will have final decision [1:34:03] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** yeah I mean I could I could be sold either way I think one is sufficient but you know these kind of things you get too many people in a room it's difficult to get any kind of consensus but uh like I said I could be sold otherwise councilmember edberg [1:34:49] **Council Member Edberg:** um so as we I would have found in this memo some delineation of what's exactly what subject matter what content is going to be studied we described land use and Regulatory but it's like what are we talking about for those who might not be knowledgeable about what's inside of that I think that would have been useful certainly as you recruit I would be interested in serving on the uh on this uh committee I'll defer to the authority of the mayor and judgmental of others [1:34:49] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** anyone else have any thoughts let me start here councilmember Walsh would you be willing to do it knowing that there are others that have expressed an interest [1:35:35] **Council Member Walsh:** um willing sure but I mean I I you know we could have an election whoever loses has to do it so I mean I'd vote for edberg you know uh I think it'd be fine if especially if you have an interest I mean um well [1:36:22] **Council Member Jones:** uh councilmember Jones I'm gonna just chime in um bill when we set out when the former mayor said I thought it was a good idea to have two people on that uh welcoming and uh welcoming an inclusion committee yep um it was because it's like I was you know it was weird not because of where we sit we aligned similarly which I didn't want wow you know what I mean it was like not that I want there to be we came from different approaches friction right yeah but I thought that I thought that was good and on something that is coming back to the council Mr Mayor that it was helpful to have two separate opinions and those people are sitting in those meetings and they're going to be here recommending something that is going to be a very large piece of what we do in the future and and that's you know I had forgotten about the welcome and inclusive committee that I think it was a benefit to have to two two listeners and or yourself on it by the way I would say if you had any interest in um I'd say that'd be very appropriate as counting as a council member of course [1:36:22] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** well I appreciate that I have lots of interest in no time um I can you know I could be sold on that I don't want to start a Turf War here but the idea of having one council member who has constituents on the North side and one council member who has constituents on the south side maybe offers a little perspective yeah and I kind of like that balance so um as long as we don't come in hot I mean you know you one from every organization but two from the city council you know and we're the ultimate you know we get to vote on this at the end too so I don't know I mean just but I think our personalities you know well yours anyway we're not coming hot so all right it's fine either way pretty answer today [1:37:33] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** yeah well I'm fine with two council members I'm not really concerned that there's going to be some undue friction we get along pretty good up here get along in the steering committee there will be some other voices um you know honestly my only thought to this list is the Century College representative I'm not sure what that angle is there significant in the community with no no disrespect to Century College but with regard to the zoning code update I'm not sure I see the applicability so I could be sold on in the interest of curtailing it now that we've added one person um but if others feel strongly that Century College should be represented on this it's fine with me I wouldn't subtract I think it's a great opportunity to bring them in and I looked at the list and said I'd like to you know interact with some of these folks so I I definitely wouldn't subtract so I guess the question is for for Mr lindahl if we if we bump into 12 is that still a manageable group to to get the kind of feedback and and discussion that you're looking for for this [1:39:05] **Jason Lindahl:** Mr Mayor members of the council I've you know the the purpose of this item tonight was to hear feedback from the console I think we've gotten that um I I I think this would still represent you know a manageable targeted um easy to structure and and a productive kind of group um based on the council's feedback [1:39:05] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** so a technical question who's appointing the steering committee I don't know is this my appointment is the council voting I mean I don't really know whose call this is we don't have a structure it was really just a discussion item if you were good or not we weren't looking for names out tonight outside of the city council members rather the groups and then we would kind of task you know staff would would make the connection if you will so you can authorize this list of categories or make an appointment if you want it's really up to us to you that's my question is it is it up to me I say yes it's up to you okay appointments alone but I'm not pretense word sorority you know in the mayor [Music] yes Mr Gilchrist so my recommendation [1:40:46] **City Attorney Gilchrist:** would be staff collects names based on those categories brings it to the mayor mayor agrees or not and then ultimately comes to the council for ratification that yes this is we hereby appoint this commission keeping in mind that this group is subject to the open meeting law so keep that in mind as as you hold these meetings [1:40:46] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** thank you that was the clarification I was looking for so okay so for purposes of this of tonight's meeting I I have what I need that there are a couple council members that have expressed interest and will we'll figure it out from there so do you have what you need purposes of moving forward okay yes thank you all right we're going to call Item 9A done now all right moving on to item 10 communication from the city manager Miss Crawford I think [1:41:31] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** thanks Market Fest is this Thursday the theme is the environmental resources Expo our EAC will of course be there as as well as other staff we will also have the downtown mobility and parking study they will have a booth an informational booth at Market Fest this Thursday it was we had about 200 people stop at the booth last time so it was wonderful feedback we're getting a lot of surveys back really good information coming in so we will also have a public open house here in the council chambers on Thursday August 3rd from 6 to 8 PM National Night Out or night to unite is Tuesday August 1st we are still taking neighborhood parties to register city council mayor I did send an email out today if you are interested in writing with police or fire please let me know so we can get that coordinated and we do have neighborhood parties in every Ward this year so that's wonderful and then the all abilities playground ribbon cutting at Lakewood Hills Park is Thursday August 3rd at 3 30 p.m we are the Lions and the staff is requesting attendance from the city council if you know you're not able to come please let me know followed by the ribbon cutting will be popsicles in the park we're turning this into kind of a public event more than just a ribbon cutting so police and fire will be there as well as Public Works in place and then safety Camp although registration is full will be Tuesday August 8th from 7 30 a.m to 5 p.m at pod bin Park and then lastly you see outside are of all of our walls are up for the new Public Safety facility it's moving along nicely it's yeah very exciting just to see that moving along we are right on schedule trying to keep up with schedule slightly possibly may fall behind here quickly soon but phase one inside is nearing completion we're about a month out for phase one inside and once that's done then police will shift one more time into the new spaces and we'll get you in there to see that then they will start on phase two of the inside and then police will move again after that so there's a lot of Shifting and moving but it's working well so that is very visible so let us know if you have any questions or concerns we have talked with the adjacent neighbors just keep them in the loop as well so that's what I have tonight [1:43:03] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** thank you Mr Crawford one quick question you had mentioned the downtone mobility and parking study and I recall pointing several people to a committee to kind of start the conversations where are we at with that and when can these folks expect to get going [1:43:49] **Jason Lindahl:** and mayor members of the council that steering committee will meet following so we're expecting a mid-august meeting for that following the public input so that we have enough background and data to present to them and start a meaningful discussion so we will be pulling that group to find the best meeting time that kind of second week of August after we've had time to analyze the data from the uh the uh survey my bike survey the data that we've gotten from the market fast boost as well as the open house so that we'll have again that meeting meaningful data to make it as productive of meetings as possible with that steering committee [1:44:03] **Mayor Dan Emerson:** great great thank you Council any questions for Miss Crawford all right I would entertain a motion to adjourn all those in favor