[1:00] Chair Curts: good evening everyone I call the January 17th 2024 Apple Valley Planning Commission meeting to order the first item of business tonight is the approval of the agenda any changes from staff [1:21] Alex Sharp: good evening Madam chair members of commission we have no changes for you at this time [1:26] Commissioner Schindler: Commissioners move approval [1:29] Commissioner Scanland: second [1:30] Chair Curts: approval made by commissioner Schindler seconded by commissioner scanland any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying I I I decline say a a n n motion approved uh next on the agenda is the approval of the consent agenda items the consent agenda item are considered routine and will be enacted with a single motion without discussion unless a commissioner or a citizen requests to have any item separately considered it will then be moved to the land use action items for consideration can I have approval for minutes of December 20 2023 regular meeting [2:04] Commissioner Schindler: move approval [2:06] Commissioner Scanland: second [2:07] Chair Curts: that was approved by commissioner Schindler second by commissioner scanland any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying I I oppose n motion carries brings us to number four public hearings tonight we do have one and it is on Starbucks conditional use permit Amendment I will open the public hearing so we now open the public hearing for agenda item number 4A the Affidavit of publication for the notice of public hearing is available for inspection in the planning department everyone wishing to speak at this public hearing should be sure to fill out the attendance roster and please include your name and address so that accurate records can be maintained we will begin the procedure with a brief presentation by City staff followed by a presentation by the petitioner of the hearing upon the conclusion of the presentation City staff will be asked to comment on the proposals conformance with pertinent regulations and policies after that comments will be taken from the general public and planner Alex sharp [3:18] Alex Sharp: thank you chair as noted this is a conditionally use permit for Starbucks drive-thru can I use so it is the policy of the Planning Commission not to act on the on an item the evening of its public hearing however if the Planning Commission concurs staff will be seeking action on this item uh as you'll see through the review process it's not a very substantive or big item it's not the whole site plan like it was last time the PC reviews this so we will be seeking action unless there are adverse comments from the public or from the commission the actual action this evening is to amend a conditional use permit or sought this evening is to amend a conditional use permit uh that was issued back in 2017 for a drive-through window in conjunction with a class 3 restaurant and the retail business zoning District the site is 7525 147 street West it's the northwest corner of Cedar Avenue 147 street West if you remember this site redeveloped from a gas station in Starbucks a Planning Commission reviewed this multiple times back in 2016 and 17 with approval in 2017 uh there were actual approvals done in 2016 as well so this went through quite a process at that time when it came through as a reminder this when it was a gas station site there was a direct access onto 147th um in the past there had been actually two access accesses under 147 so the site has seen significant changes to not only the building but also its access to public roadways right now there are two access points off of Glenda Drive that serve the drive-thru on the far East side of Starbucks the site is z guided for commercial and zoned retail business within the retail business Zone a it is a conditional use that a drive-thru be allowed in conjunction with a class 3 restaurant what the applicant is seeking to do is on the far right side of of this site plan here that's also included in your packet is a red existing menu board location they are looking to move it around 30 ft to the South to the black location shown today the purpose for this move that the applicant has explained and you'll see in in a letter that's also attached to your report is to allow for additional time from the ordering to the pickup window their claim is that by doing this they will be able to essentially reduce the overall stacking times of vehicles because it allows their Baristas and staff additional time to make the drinks and food ordered in doing so it should reduce some of the packed conditions that we have seen uh where stacking has gone out to Glenda in the past one thing I would note on staff's um review of this site is that well we have seen s significant stacking on the site sometimes impacting the southern tenant Sleep Number we have yet to really notice a significant backup onto Glenda or 147th at most a single vehicle uh graphic following this will show you kind of why there is additional St vehicle stacking built into the site by utilizing that Northern drive as well code th this site was one of the very first that we really started looking at vehicle stacking particularly for coffee so a traffic study was done in conjunction with this project that found that we needed at least 13 Vehicles stacked on a coffee site what was unclear about that initial study was whether that 13 Vehicles was taken from the drive window or from the order menu board we've done both as projects have gone forward based upon the individual sites in this one the original plan and you'll see this in a following drawing was 13 vehicles from the window in the dedicated drive-through Lane rather than 13 vehicles on site which is what we've also done from other locations so in this case there would still be 13 because it's not being affected at all there would still be 13 vehicles that would be able to be stacked within the drive through Lane this amendment will not change that and therefore from its original approvals should stand to be in compliance with those original approvals it does change a little how the staff has revie reviewed from the menu board in future cases in a very worst case scenario the site can still stack 17 vehicles from that menu board that doesn't include the additional seven vehicles that from the menu board up to the window that would also be able to be fit so the site has significant stacking despite being uh small in size with the approvals that the city gave with variances and such we were actually able to get a significant amount of stacking to this site that we haven't been able to see in some of the future uh approvals for coffee drive-thru this is the original site plan this shows that 13 vehicles I was referring to uh it's 13 Vehicles very clearly from the uh pickup window this was what was approved in 2017 uh the 2016 site plan was when the Planning Commission initially reviewed this city code does provide a little guidance on what the stacking needs to be but not where from in the case of Class 2 restaurants uh we would require six stacking spaces for each Drive-In window this is a class 3 restaurant so there is actually no set requirement in code however conditional use permits allow the city to place additional conditions on a conditional use permit and make them site specific so staff has been hesitant to bring forward a performance standard that may lock the uh May lock staff the city and the commission into not being able to consider site specific conditions uh because we were trying to create a more generalized ordinance I do have a draft resolution contained within your report uh our c attorney did catch that I uh changed our action to be slightly incorrect it should be the recommending and approval of a conditional use permit Amendment at 7525 147 street West not amending that resolution so you can use the uh action that's up on the screen rather than the one that's in the packet if that was the planning's wishes we do have an applicant present this evening if you have any questions for them um and then it's a quick summary to that resolution essentially what that draft will do is uh supersede the other uh 2017 resolution containing all of the conditions contained therein adding two more to make sure that uh the city is covered by having some conditions for if the stacking were to impact traffic on public roadways that the conditionally use perment could be Revisited [10:23] Chair Curts: thanks Alex I have a question and I don't know if I should ask you this or the app um after reviewing it it was the peak hour of 7 to 8:00 a.m. on Fridays so is the request to move that order sign just for that one morning or do they have other issues with Stacked Cards [10:41] Alex Sharp: chair Curts uh no this would be a permanent change to where the menu board is located right but is it due because of the Friday mornings I would say from seeing the site as I drive in every morning I too there's stacking considerable stacking most days of a week that said I even decided to try during this review process just drive by the site a couple of times before 8: a.m. to try to see what we're actually dealing with we're not observing that it's going out to Glenda traditionally if you're seeing a problem and this goes for any day of the week as soon as you get a vehicle that is fearful of getting rear ended on Glenda they start to pull in really tight and close or go up and go around and now you get a fun zipper maneuver where they don't always like working well together but that's an on-site issue and less concerning for the city than what it is for um the applicant [11:53] Chair Curts: so the question would be is why not close off that entrance I understand for the sleep number but why not close that entrance off completely and use that other roundabout [11:59] Alex Sharp: so I think chair CTS I think that um staff has questioned that as well I will end up probably deferring a little bit to our city engineer assistant city engineer who's present but in summary speaking with the city engineer it may actually inhibit site traffic to close that entrance it was also one of the reasons why I chose to bring up that the site has already seen to close entrances onto public roadways um it's a pretty significant alteration to a site to close an entrance like that um additionally I suspect that Starbucks would withdraw their application prior to doing that because it it it's not going to be something that the uh site would benefit from for the other tenants for themselves or could somebody go out there with cones orange cones at the time of peak hour or something I mean they do that at other places I think with that I will defer to the city or to the assistant city engineer on how effective that may be [12:51] Assistant City Engineer: M Madam chair um we could as I understand it we could write something like that into the conditional use that maybe they'd have to have some Advanced monitoring similar to like a crossing guard almost but for their drive-thru what the city staff kind of arrived at from an engineering perspective is um there's a there's the existing conditions that we've arrived at that have some amount of risk of stacking onto public right away and the net benefit if you will of closing that extra Drive Entrance which we feel would negatively impact the site because you know now we're we're reducing you know the Ingress and egress to the site as a whole um for one one peak hour if you will per week um as well as you know maybe the other side of the coin is like Alex did and he kind of hit on is why not just right into the conditional use permanent amendment that if traffic is functioning worse than it is now we have the ability to review it at that point and maybe not hamstring the project right out of the gate okay so from an engineering perspective we're pretty comfortable with what has been presented from from that angle [14:13] Chair Curts: okay thank you and we think by just moving that sign 30 feet is going to resolve some of these issues [14:20] Alex Sharp: chair CTS um I don't know that the res that the applicant has stated that it will resolve the issues what they have stated is it will reduce the overall time that they occur um they've been doing this I I was just speaking with the applicant representative before the meeting I think he said that he's done around 50 of these so this is something that Starbucks is doing in a lot of locations um if they didn't work they wouldn't spend the money to do it in a lot of locations true I just wonder if there's any been complaints from Sleep Number at all so uh Cher CTS I'm glad that you mentioned that I have spoken with Sleep Number uh well they certainly have complaints about it backing up from time to time their hours are off peak for this so they don't open until 10 o' um on any day of the week and by that time the high peak is usually done right um their only comments or or concerns expressed from speaking with them were actually about the board placement in regards to their advertising um which is not a pertinent portion for the city to be able to review we can't get into tenant advertising sure concerns so if they had major concerns with that we advise them to take that up with the landlord so no the noise from the speakers wouldn't affect that company they were not concerned about that they did not express a concern to me about that [15:53] Commissioner Scanland: okay thank you um commissioner scanland Madam chair um you already answered some of the questions I was thinking um I kind of thought about that same too with the blocking off the the initial entrance there but the big thing I see with that after looking at it more and with comments is also with um um access for emergency vehicles in and out that would really I think going to make it more difficult on them and uh just for this short period of time it sounds like um and as far as with the fact that there's just two tenants I guess it's kind of the in this particular situation kind of the perfect marriage and the fact that the this peak time is um don't interfere with each other for the most part sounds like occasionally it might there might be some but um um be interesting to get some comments from the applicant on the the um science behind what they're doing here to understand that a little better as far as how that moves how that's going to improve things uh for that um Alex do you have a a picture how that ends up or the sign ends up looking from like Cedar Avenue or how that [17:15] Alex Sharp: chair CT commissioner scanland no I I do not have a a elevation drawing of where that would change [17:21] Commissioner Scanland: that's fine all right thanks Alex [17:23] Alex Sharp: the original building elevations didn't have this location noted M it was just of the building which is very typical and what I noticed I think when I looked at it just like on from Google is that the the signage kind of falls in the the the windows for Sleep Number that they have but I mean I guess that's a like you said it's a t concern not a um um from our perspective is is how it gets placed placement is based on the stacking so chair kurs commissioner scanland um Sleep Numbers windows are are faux windows they're real glass oh but they're boxed oh okay you can't physically see out them from inside then that becomes a mood point so they they me fo me about 68 inches deep create a box [17:59] Commissioner Scanland: all right so okay didn't know that thanks Alex [18:05] Chair Curts: any other Commissioners have any questions for Alex okay can we have the applicant come up hi [18:14] Connor McCoy: hi Conor McCoy nice to meet you um I'm with Kim Le horn um do I need to State my address I don't think so does he have to State his address you can if you could just State your business address if you will um I'm here on behalf of Starbucks to um go through the conditional use uh permit Amendment um I did not prepare anything today Alex pretty much summed up everything for meh [19:00] Chair Curts: so we're putting you on the spot [19:02] Connor McCoy: yep well let me ask you this can you answer any of our questions prior to Alex's discussion um if you could restate them I will do my best [19:12] Chair Curts: sure um well I guess my first question would be is that um you've had no complaints from sleep number in regards to moving the sign with noise and all that kind of stuff [19:24] Connor McCoy: we have not um we reached out to the landlord and he was the one that was uh in contact with the tenants the other tenants okay um and we got approval from that landlord in order to move this order point [19:46] Chair Curts: and I guess our next question would be is explain how that will differentiate between how much time you spend with each customer [19:54] Connor McCoy: um the sign back so the reason behind doing this is to create more time from the order point to the window um which in turn gives more time to the Baristas and other workers to prepare orders um which will allow for less time for cars to sit at the window um and in return lower the amount of waiting time that people and customers have have to wait so by having the sign where it is now it impacts the quickness of the cars getting to the window whereas 30 ft back it's going to slow up the movement [20:31] Chair Curts: so therefore I was reading that you guys spent about a minute and 23 on each customer and this is hoping to get it underneath 30 seconds 40 seconds or something [20:39] Connor McCoy: yeah that is the that is the goal of moving this order Point um the reason why we chose this spot on the site was there's no other real good place to place it besides this location um this is kind of the max we can go from the window um with that order Point um so this was the best fit for us and that's why it's only like 30 feet so okay okay thank you [21:14] Chair Curts: anybody else have any questions for the applicant no okay thank you [21:18] Connor McCoy: thanks [21:20] Chair Curts: uh meaning that we don't have anybody in attendance for the public hearing I am going to close the public hearing if there are no further comments I will close this public hearing it is the policy of the Planning Commission not to act on an item on the same night as its public hearing the Planning Commission will weigh all comments and information received tonight in its deliberations at Future meetings this item will continue to appear on future Planning Commission agendas until a recommendation on the petition can be forwarded to the city Council unless somebody would like to make a motion tonight [22:10] Commissioner Scanland: Madam chair I recommend approval of an amendment to a conditional use permit at 7525 147 street West subject to the conditions within the um draft Le resolution [22:21] Commissioner Schindler: second [22:22] Chair Curts: motion was made by commissioner scanland seconded by commissioner Schindler are there any discussions no if not all those in favor signify by saying I I I oppose nay motion carries thank you okay moving on we have no land use action items tonight um I will let other business let Tim benetti take over that but I would like to just make a remark on one of our uh Commissioners that is going to be no longer with us and that is Keith deckman he signed on in the Year 2005 so we had the pleasure of his service for 17 18 years he um brought a lot to our board and he will be greatly missed by many of us many of us have worked with him for many years uh Keith if you're watching we wish you luck and we would i' like to say thank you for all your years of service and you will be missed Tim [23:32] Tim Benetti: thank you madam chair members of commission uh your upcoming meetings will be on Wednesday February 7 20 2024 also the following Wednesday February 21st we do have an item scheduled for the February 7th meeting and just a reminder the Starbucks since it was approved tonight uh condition use permit that will be presented on the council meeting of February February 8th 2024 so kind of unusual we have a a Planning Commission and a council meeting back to back it's one of those few that that happens that that month so uh and we'll also keep you informed on where we're at with the process of hiring for or uh getting a new Planning Commission member selected and we hope to have more information for you probably at the uh annual meeting which is scheduled for the February one of those February meetings I can't remember if it's the first or second one but we figure it out before we get there [25:12] Chair Curts: would you like to introduce our new member [25:16] Tim Benetti: I would love to if if you haven't met her yet our new associate planner is cydney stro Sydney is very uh right out of school out of U ofm and she is coming uh recently from City of otana where she was a planning technician and she is now our newest uh planning associate or associate planner and she's getting to know the systems very well she's working well playing well with others except for the boss but other than that she's got a very very cute little kid uh newborn five six month Auggie and just met her fiance today as well so we we we really welcome her it was a a long drown out process to get her hired but we got it done so uh feel free to come over and say hi to her and you're going to see her more often in the future good we welcome you [25:40] Sydney Stro: thank you [25:41] Chair Curts: okay and with that can I have a motion [25:45] Commissioner Schindler: move for journ [25:46] Commissioner Scanland: second [25:46] Chair Curts: motion made by commissioner Schindler seconded by commissioner scanland all those in favor signify by saying I I this meeting has adjourned