you good evening it is Monday September 9th 2019 and I would like to call it the city of Burnsville Planning Commission to order we have a monthly agenda tonight it's 6:30 by the way we're starting right in time and to start with I'd like to have a motion to adopt the agenda but first let's go to staff to have any changes to the agenda no changes for staff commissioners any changes okay do I have a motion I second all those in favor aye all right all right the next item is approval of the minutes from the last meeting the August 26th 2019 meeting staff to have any changes no changes from staff I'll second that all those in favor aye any opposed okay so that brings us to our first item of action and that is a public hearing for irete properties for conditional use permit for multiple buildings on one lot and landscaping design and a variance to the building and parking setback and exterior lighting standards for construction of a new clubhouse located at two zero zero one 121st Street East and miserable Thank You commissioners so this application before you is for multiple requests to accommodate the construction of this new clubhouse for the Colonial villas apartments which are near the intersection of County Road 11 and 120 second so the subject site is zoned r3b high density residential and it's guided high density residential in the Comprehensive Plan it is adjacent to some single-family homes to the east and from from other multifamily developments and some business developments to the north south and west the new development is made up of six separate apartment buildings each on their own parcel so shown here very busy but is the Alta survey of the properties so there are six residential lots which that were in the subdivision as it was originally planted in 1968 the site was designed to be served in access to by a hundred and twenty first Street which is was vacated later in the 80s the buildings were approved as building permits by the City Council in 1968 and 1971 and then the they hated one hundred and twenty first Street still does hold the utilities which serve the area so there was a 60 foot wide utility easement in the formerly 100 so the requests as part of this application CU p request for multiple buildings on one lot as the proposed clubhouse will be a second built structure on lot to a block two of Kanaly estates the CU p request for landscaping design variance request for a 32 foot primary structure front yard setback and variance request for a 0 foot parking step back and the dance request from exterior lighting standards 4 foot candles at the property line um so this proposal it's a four thousand sixty square foot Clubhouse to hold their leasing office as well this space will hold some social space office areas fitness room package pickup area as well as some outdoor patio for some recreational space for residents so there are 17 existing parking spaces on site and the proposal will rework the parking area since there's no structure here now some of this is parking on the vacated street and it runs parallel through this circle area so it will be reoriented over in this direction where the pool for the apartment complex is so a zero foot setback is requested at the property line which runs directly through the vacated street this is an existing condition is it's a vacated street it's our that's already used for some parallel parking and but they will also be reorienting the area as I said so the parking lot design is an upgrade to the aesthetics of this inner courtyard area after the street was vacated and has been used as access to the site across access and cross parking agreement was never provided for the development after the vacation of a stream even though the utility easement was so there is a condition that one of these agreements be filed with the county showing that the practice and development have shared access on this vacated street which is now a drive isle so on your screen are the building elevations for the proposal building materials proposed meet architectural material standards of the ordinance and exceed them in some cases materials are also that the colors shown and the PowerPoint are very similar to the material board and the roof is illustrated as metal flashing with an angled roof line at the top of the roofline it will be 22 feet and at the bottom it will be about 13 feet the clubhouse is proposed and some natural wood colors materials prosol proposed will be an upgrade to the aesthetics on the site and the applicant has indicated that in the future the existing apartment buildings will be upgraded on their facades as well to be more compatible with the proposed materials for this new clubhouse the proposed landscaping plan indicates that six trees will be removed these are here to incorporate some of this drive I'll expansion and where the building will be located but 11 existing trees will remain mostly in the southern and northern portion of these large parcels that the apartment buildings are on the landscape plan does not meet the number of trees per open area square footage on either of the two Lots when they're calculated per lot the request for the conditional use permit for landscaping design the applicant is indicating that when calculated per the square foot of the approved an impacted area of the development that the application does meet landscaping requirements landscaping within the parking area exceeds ordinance required about 9% compared to 3% within the improvement area the plan meets the 25% diversity requirement and exceeds the building perimeter landscaping requirement overall landscaping requirements in our 3b are 50% for the whole landscape door open area in this case it is calculated at close to 47% for the development as a whole the vacated street from the 120 first as well as some of this like recreational area that's not calculated as part of a landscaped or open area but it can affect that calculation the intent of the ordinance is for a newly developed areas to be landscaped and maintained the existing landscaping on the Lots is an existing condition of the originally approved building permits from the 60s and 70s the updated area does meet city landscaping requirements the staff is supportive of the CEP for landscaping design the exterior lighting standards variance request is related to the requirement that the foot-candle the output at the property line of residentially zoned Lots not exceed point 5 foot candles so the property line goes through this center of the vacated street and this may be a challenging to see but the photometric plans do show a range between about two and three point seven foot candles however this four light lighting is related to parking lot lighting within the expanded parking area for the proposed clubhouse the Lots between the apartment buildings do share a common owner and no new lighting is proposed near shared property lines with outside neighboring property owners exterior lighting will still need to be down casts and shielded on faces all faces that's an ordinance requirement and so as mentioned earlier the parking lot setback request reflects the existing maintained zero foot parking setback for the drive aisle and new parking spaces the for the other variance requests the building setback I have requested to the front property line and so these Lots were plotted as a double frontage lot with the vacated street they're still flat lines on front on either side so the 40-foot required setback they're requesting 32 feet of a setback length this so that would be a 8 foot request so this slide shows the graving drainage and erosion control plan the applicant will be providing a new stormwater on tiered north of the new parking area you can answer questions about that later if necessary on the utility plan here you can see some of the utility lines that do run underneath the the acute street within that 60 foot easement that was maintained over the vacated street so they serve this item the neighborhood to the east the parking and geometric plan shows the new surface parking area and some of the existing parking and drive aisle which will be resurfaced and updated after the construction of the proposed clubhouse come back to super plans if necessary so as you've heard this evening the few Pyrrhic West's just for two items the multiple buildings on one lot and for landscaping design the apartment development was originally approved as one building per lot at the time of permit so the inclusion of a clubhouse on a lot with an apartment building already located on it and does require the CEP request for multiple buildings the landscaping ordinance does allow for alternative landscape plans to be considered by CEP to evaluate compatibility with the intent of the ordinance existing landscaping on site is as approved many decades ago the impacted area by the construction of the clubhouse does show a landscaping design that meets the ordinance and in some areas exceeds ordinance standards while the two parcels affected by the construction and the development as a whole do not meet current ordinance standards the intent of the landscaping ordinance can be met by improving the design of the redeveloped portion of the site and the wats the variance requests are for three provisions so the building setback the parking setback and exterior lighting standards the variance request is caused by the factor that each building in the apartment development is on its own lock rather than one large locked with multiple buildings on it the existing property lines from the six subdivision plan to effect setbacks and exterior lighting standards but they are all these Lots are owned in common by the same property owner and historically how that has been the case when they are all sold they are all sold together when evaluated with the variants guideline policy there are 11 positives and four negatives as included in your background packet and the proposal is reasonable some engineering related improvements to the site are the additional by two minutes parking areas some storm sewer and utility improvements the stormwater management accommodated on site by that stormwater pond a general NPDES construction permit would be required and the engineering department has indicated that these two conditions be added that the outstanding engineering memo comments be addressed adequately and that a low-impact development management practices management practices agreement executed for the property and development please fire in building have review the application there's no outstanding comments the CP and the variance request do reflect a unique situation of the each building being on its own lot rather than one large parcel for development the proposed improvements are consistent with the our 3b high-density residential district so staff is recommending approval subject to the following conditions and there is a small miss type in this which should be reflected here so as presented properly drawn legal instrument executed by the parties concerned for joint use of or for use of the off street parking facilities shall be filed as the deed restriction on the properties and the recorders office of to go to county lighting shall be downcast and shielded on all phases that all outstanding city engineering limo comments be addressed adequately and the low-impact development executing and recorded prior to issuance of building permit so this item will be a public hearing and then representative from the applicant team can answer some specific questions about the proposal if necessary other I'm available for comment as well good Thank You mr. gnome do we have some comments Commissioner John yeah so there's a 40 foot variance per code what's the reason behind the 40 foot variants or 40 foot that they're going to 32 or 8 foot okay so the 40 foot setback to be required is required in that zoning district from the front or the rear lot line and in this case it was plotted as the front here to front 121st Street so that's an ordinance requirement of 40 feet and they're requesting the 32 feet so that they could fit the building in in this proposed location what's the reason for the setback why is there a setback in the code do you know where is it um so setbacks are created as as often its aesthetics or safety that it's for further back from a road okay so this being a private road really it really doesn't matter correct well in this case it's from the property line because this is still considered the front property line after being vacated right so it's from lines and not necessarily where a road is from lot lines yeah I can understand a little confusion on this this is we're kind of trying to fit something into an odd property and I'm curious if we platting is possible here to kind of do away with some of the creativity that's needed or if that's something that was considered or maybe down the road so and it would be possible for the applicant to do that and they've indicated it's not something they're interested in doing with the Lots that they own are there any other questions or comments any questions or comments for the applicant would the applicant is the applicant here yes would you like to make any comments yeah if you'd come up to the podium and state your name and address for the record please good evening my name is Jeff cures and I'm with bthe Liam the project architect on the project so I think the in Peters here tonight he's he's the client I think the biggest challenges we were just trying to find the best way to fit this amenity onto the site and as as mentioned you know the the building owner how the property owner didn't have the interest of combining these Lots and so that's part of the reason that we're asking for the variance in and the COP so if this were to be sold to another owner down the road the clubhouse would go with the self property correct correct okay in Commissioner Roberts I would think the people living in the buildings are pretty excited about this I would speculate yes okay I mean I looked at it as being a very big plus and you guys are dealing with quite the unique property to try to fit something like that in so actually I thought the way it was managed out I thought was pretty good if we're only looking at an eight-foot variance that isn't that bad for what you had to work with okay that way I know a wad yeah I just wanted to echo it so it's a pretty nice solution so I think and I think it'll be a huge improvement especially for a property of that age you know this is it'll be nice to see this go up thank you okay thank you thank you oh I'm sorry yeah Commissioner job oh that was really excited about seeing the property get this amendment so I agree it's it's like a great deal great thank you so much may or may not know this but um is there a timeline of when the other buildings are gonna be upgraded because this building is gonna make everything else look so different you know I would say yes my understanding is that the property owners would like to make improvements I can't speak on a specific timeline on that but yeah it's not a prerequisite or anything I'm just curious yeah because it looks like the whole complex then is just gonna upgrade it that's what the intent yes okay okay thank you thank you all right so this is a public hearing and I would like to open the public hearing at 6:47 is there anybody that would like to speak to this item seeing none I will close the public hearing at 6:48 and commissioners we a decision to make we have some discussion do you have any comments concerns would anybody like to make a motion mr. job I will make a motion that we recommend a City Council approval the conditional use permit for multiple buildings on one lot in landscape and design and variance to the building and parking set pack an exterior lighting standards for construction of the new clubhouse located at 2001 121st Street East subject to the following conditions for conditions that were previously listed on this line I second that all right we have a motion and a second is there any other discussion all right all those in favor say aye aye aye all those opposed the motion carries I agree with some of the comments that were made so thank you for bringing this to us I hope that the the other buildings get the same type of facade and and look in the future I think that would be great for the place there thank you all right so that will bring us to our next item which is a public hearing for the application of Cooper Johnson to a Planned Unit development amendment for a tavern microbrewery to be located at one to two five seven Nicollet Avenue South you have the floor thank you so this item is related to an office warehouse building an existing plan unit development north of part of the city and highway 13 and adjacent to the Burnsville transit station which is here in the parking ramp and south of Nicollet Avenue so the proposal is for a microbrewery or a brewpub which is encompassed within the tavern definition within our zoning ordinance so the subject site is zoned b3 general business with a plan unit development for office and office warehouse the situs guided business retail office and the 2040 Comprehensive Plan the existing Planned Unit development was a stage development of multiple office and warehouse buildings this particular stage and the niccola Business Center so a tavern as defined in the zoning ordinance as a conditional use in the b3 zoning district as the property is an existing planning of development for a combination district of conditional uses in b3 and permitted uses and I want to create that office warehouse feel the applicant is also requesting some deviations to the city code this PUD amendment would be necessary for that request as well as and that at the micro brewery and the restaurant portion doesn't quite fit into office and warehouse so the floor plan shown on your screen shows the breakout of some of the uses and space within the micro brewery so the proposed brew pub that this location will produce craft beer in-house and sell the product growlers crowler's for take away they'll be providing pizza in the dining area the product will be served on-site with other products not created by the micro brewery and the intent is also to provide a coffee and donut service in the morning and kind of creating a morning and night community space friendly friendly space so the you set the microbrew will contain the bring area the tap room area and this is going to be some room for event space and there will be some restaurant service with pizza service so land use benefits to the plan unit development the proposed micro brewery will add a new business attraction to Burnsville that we don't have very many of there will be a bike rack provided on site for the use and ride share drop-off locations will be utilized as part of their operations deviations requested with the plan unit development amendment to allow painted wall signage staff does not support to the attraction closure roof requirement which staff does support and a parking reduction which staff supports a part of it is an existing condition of the plan unit development so the proposal for the micro brewery with the restaurant and the tap room in the event space will be occupying the corner space here in an office warehouse building the zoning ordinance requires that restaurants located within a thousand feet of a residential e developed property includes some odor reducing equipment so staff has communicated with the applicant about this ordinance requirement and the applicant did provide some supplemental information which was included in your packet and additional narrative and the restaurant used within the micro brewery will be using pizza ovens and the applicant has indicated that the ventilation requirements for their equipment will be satisfactory and alleviating order between any venting in the residential structure and a condition has been included that order control be addressed should it become a nuisance which is something that was discussed discussed with the applicant the applicant has indicated that they are confident that the equipment that they intend to provide will alleviate these concerns existing an existing parking and access agreement is recorded for the properties within this planning and development and showing a shared parking arrangement and access and so the property line actually does split right similar to where this input on to Nicolette Avenue is so the deviation for reduced parking is related to the 77 additional spaces that the ordinance would require for all the uses within the buildings the proposed use though will have different peak hours from existing office warehouse at businesses within the development and by providing some bike parking and rideshare drop-off locations the 77 spaces would lead to an excess and parking for the site this site is also adjacent to the Burnsville transit station and north a part of the city where the future Orange Line station is set to be located the original PUD did also include parking production for office warehouse uses as well with the assumption that the warehouse uses would not require as much parking supportive of that deviation there is a trash enclosure that's new proposed in the rear of the building circled here so the ordinance does require a roof for trash enclosures with thanked business districts however the City Council has directed staff to amend the ordinance related to screening standards which will remove the roof requirement so staff is supportive of the deviation is this very soon as this no longer to be based on some City Council direction for the ordinance enclosure otherwise meet screening standards and materials used and location which all will be finalized at the building permit stage as well so there will be a rooftop chiller unit located on the building the mechanical mechanical equipment will be screened by the existing building design and distance from the roof line about 55 to 60 feet in each direction from the edge of the roof line so based on current design it will not be visible from the public right-of-way in parking areas so the applicant did come in with plans requesting a painted sign on the exterior of the building in two locations one of which was brick and one of which was a composite panel material the city's ordinances would not allow a painted sign that's not permitted additionally the existing plan unit development permits panel signage as all science I'm so staff discussed the option of utilizing this panel signage to create the same look for the building and they that cannibal to that option a new comprehensive sign plan and criteria will need to be submitted at the time of sign permit to indicate which tenant spaces can be allowed how much square footage within the development and to show that this location may so this square here shows the existing space for panel signage but that is a requirement of the app or of the property owner and not of the city's zoning ordinance we would allow more space for the city's base ordinances and by updating their sign criteria plan they can more aligned with the city's sign ordinance condition has been added that the plans be revised within the sign permit application to show a panel sign and not a painted sign on the exterior of the building there's also a proposed monument sign which does meet height and size requirements for the zoning district and the applicant is aware of the 5-foot setback for the proposed signage so that sign will be finalized at the time of service sign permit application as well for some staff considerations engineering building and fire departments reviewed the application and have no outstanding comments and the applicant will need to work through the liquor licensing process with the city prior to occupancy and the water department has discussed some operations with the applicant as well supplanting staff did receive public comments related to the application after the agenda background report was published these comments were provided in your seat prior to the start of the meeting for additional review this will also be a public hearing for public statements for the record the proposed use itself of the microbrewery staff is supported that the application that it will be a unique draw to the area and complement the area north of part of the city and near the Burnsville transit station and future Orange Line transit station so staff is recommending approval of the application subject to these conditions that the conditions have previously approved plan unit developments remain in full force in effect that odor control be addressed should order for you nuisance that the plants be revised at the time of sign permit application to show a panel sign and not a painted sign on the exterior and that updated comprehensive sign plan for the building criteria be submitted at the time a sign permit application applicant team is present this evening to respond to Commission questions and I'm open for any clarification thank you thank you Miss Erin are there any questions for Miss art Commissioner Anderson yeah I was wondering who determines if it is a nuisance for the owner is it the people that work in that area or the residential area that's within a thousand feet so we would it would be from within the ordinance requirements for complaints that get taken end by the code enforcement department and the applicant indicated in some of their additional narratives that they provided that they were willing to work with it if it became an issue and they received complaints to further add an additional odor equipment if necessary beyond what they were already planning to use all right if the applicants here would you like to address the Commission stitcher name and address for the record hi I'm Cooper Johnson 1260 Minnehaha Avenue West st. Paul sorry I'm not sure what people usually say we think this is gonna be a force for good my family and I opened a brewery in Saint Paul almost three years ago and it the mission being to serve the community to be a hub to support local nonprofits and cultural institutions museums things like that and it's been just awesome so I'm doing this sort of on my own with their full support and help and I hope it can kind of be the same type of thing here I have family who lives really close to the site on both sides my family who are gonna help out and so so I guess I would like to know a little bit about your experience in st. Paul and have there been any issues with odor or any complaints from neighbors and then if you would just further expand on what you think your hours of operation might be any any issues that you've seen in your location and Saint Paul that might translate - yeah odor is a non-issue it's it's not even an area as far as brewing and gas-fired oven gas powered ovens they aren't even on the list for engineering firms to address as far as odor abatement it's for brewing and steam and for the pizza ovens it's largely hot air so we haven't had any issues with that there's a coffee roaster down the street that just smells like toast just in the parking lot but it doesn't you know you have to be 10 feet from their exhaust to smell it we haven't had any issues with the community where it's you know far and away the community seems to love us we've never had any complaints about parking or traffic or odour or anything like that it's just a gathering place sorry if I didn't address your home question what do you anticipate these I'm sorry yeah so we're planning we're actually planning to open at 10:30 or 11:00 to do like a light lunch service that's happening as prep is happening for the evening work is happening in the brewhouse we at our current place we open at 8:00 a.m. during the weeks to serve coffee during the weekdays to serve coffee in nine am on the weekends and it works really well we don't want to open that early at least to start because we want to work our way into it but it's mainly just to have a place for the people who work in the area to come grab a bite to eat or you know there's so many people who for whatever reason can have a beer at noon or whatever they may not be working that day and people who work non-traditional schedules and things like that so then what time do you plan on closing oh we plan on closing at 11:00 on weekdays and midnight on weekends is that about what you do yeah that's exactly yeah and and earlier on Sundays so maybe 9:00 or 10:00 on Sundays okay Thank You Commissioner John is there any particular reason why you selected this particular location we wanted to be near the heart of the city we liked Burnsville a lot I did an assessment of 14 municipalities and it felt like Burnsville was the best fit and then the most need we actually Burnsville is one of our primary one of the places that most of our customers live who travel to our brewery in st. Paul so so if not this particular location because it is a different district would there be another location Burnsville a you'd be considering we live this one we looked pretty extensively and it's just so hard to find space that would work that has enough clearance height first of all and then having a building owner who's willing to work with you just because it's a little more involved of a process so in this building has been very open yeah oh they're wonderful and they they one of the things we were looking for as a building owner who had another brewery tenant in another building and understand understanding actually how it worked and not just great a brewery so that was really helpful and we we have a number of you municipalities have reached out to us to pitch us you know tax abatements and spaces and things like that and we liked Burnsville so much that we making friends feel instead okay thank you Robert yeah I don't know if you know but we received some concerns by some of the neighbors this is a Business Park for business and all of a sudden there's gonna be a bar there whether you call it a brew pub or whatever it's still a bar and the concerns were that this is no not gonna be the business atmosphere that they signed the lease for for their business all of a sudden you're gonna come in and do this do you see any confliction with that type with neighbors and I mean I've seen I went by and I looked at it you know but did around it looking at everything that's going on it's definitely a business orientated type of atmosphere you're across 13 from the heart of the city so getting to the heart of the city is gonna be a chore anyway so my big questions were that location location location where do you see this being the big draw I mean give me your you know your your aspect on why you want this location or was it just all that's left oh we we want to be located centrally and being just across the street from the heart of the city and near the transit station I mean it seemed perfect and in the building we're currently in in st. Paul there's five hundred thousand square feet the vast majority of the space is for businesses and offices and were a meeting space after work we're a meeting space during the day that you don't have to buy beer to come and use our facilities as a breakout space from your office and we don't have trapped we have very little traffic before 7:00 at night so we've found it works really well and it's kind of a new model that we're almost an amenity rather than a distraction or anything like that and we liked having businesses around us you can come grab some pizza have a beer have a coke before you head home maybe you want to wait out traffic that's a huge part of our business and st. Paul is just the people who work in the building just a couple more things one of the things that you guys listed about was selling other products I mean are you gonna have a full liquor license I that would be the hope okay but but very very tertiary to our own beer but just so that if a family comes or a group of people and someone doesn't like beer or drink beer that's actually one of our biggest complaints so it'd be a very limited selection beyond our own beer but maybe hams or something like that just for I mean a full liquor license as an alcohol yeah yeah I'm gonna have that as well live music it's not core we probably hope yeah just trying to you know put all these points together coffee and donuts was mentioned things like that so you're gonna be having more of a when you start opening up for earlier hours obviously yeah that that's a little up in the air okay we were just we're focusing on pizza and our own beer okay anything else okay Commissioner John so you kind of playing off mr. Roberts tell us a little bit about your location and st. Paul what kind of a neighborhood is that in it it's we're on the edge of an industrial area okay so we're on one side of our Street is industry for about a mile square mile and the other side is single-family homes for four or five miles all the way across st. Paul whereabouts and say on Pryor Avenue just north of the Menards on University okay okay do you get a lot of complaints as some of the complaints we were reading about that complaints but I would say hesitations is someone working by yourself and in an office cigarette butts people being out at late hours cars being left in parking lots that type of thing what is your experience can you calm some of those years are there anything that we've never had a complaint in that way um it doesn't attract that type of crowd I would say very very small it's probably less representative of than the population as a whole smoked cigarettes they're not drinking to excess we have in st. Paul we have a wet house two blocks away and I think the number of times we've had to cut somebody off from services to in three years we have a policy in place to call overs for people or even slightly concerned about we don't allow cars in the lot overnight we we were actually bagged by the other tenants in the building to start opening earlier and they've asked us to be open later because they do see it as an amenity we I mean we haven't had any issues especially with the neighbors we hope we donate to everything Church fundraisers all that I mean we don't say no to anything and we ho just community events constantly so I mean it really is very different than a traditional bar atmosphere today since we've been open at 8:00 we had a group of probably 15 parents with their small children and they're playing board games and drinking coffee and having juice boxes and it's really nice and not what you'd imagine of somewhere that sells liquor mm-hmm now you said that you wouldn't allow cars to remain parked but yet people are being uber at home what happens is their car yeah we we ask that they call somebody to come pick it up but sometimes you know it'll just have to be towed but the majority of people who we have called ubers for which is maybe a dozen or so they didn't drive there anyway because they knew they were gonna do that okay thank you all right thank you very much at this time I'd like to open the public hearing is in 711 and we do have one person who signed up so if MS Lim Beck would come and please address the Commission with your name and your address hi my name is Christina Lombok my home address is one six zero eight seven harmony trail Lakeville my business address is one two two five five Nicollet Avenue I own a medical equipment and supply company I've been in business for 23 years I moved to Burnsville to be in an office park I was next door to a bar for 21 years I have been there I've been the bar just serve pizza they had a cafe open in the morning for a while you see things that it's it's a new sense to get into get out of your car in the morning and you find garbage broken bottles maybe not what the brewpub because they're serving glasses but there is I moved to birdsville for office park and if if I wouldn't have left where it was that if I wanted to be by a bar still I got sick of the garbage I got sick of a lot of stuff now I would brew pubs are fine but I don't want it in our business park I'm not alone I know that there's a couple other tenants that feel the same way as I do I love where I'm located I'm close to the freeway we deliver our medical equipment to the to all of the Twin Cities area I don't want to leave Burnsville but this is something that's very important to our company and we really want to keep it the same and not have a nuisance of garbage in the morning cigarette butts blood on the sidewalks from fights I've seen it all the other thing is I do come into work late sometimes when you can't sleep and you're on your own business you come into work late and then I don't want to have drunk people around when I just want to get in and you know undo that do those the alarm and get into the business safe and my daughter also works for me same thing with her she lives in Burnsville right behind the heart she rachel is right behind here and same with her I don't want her coming in at 23 years old cute little blonde you know and have drunk people you know harass her or anything we would have to call the cops and I do know that we've had to call the cops at our old location often we had a lot of break-ins gasps stolen from our car's license plate stolen dumping in our dumpsters we've we had a lot of that sort of things happen and it was from a lot of people that would go around to the bar and party in the back or whatever so but that's my concern and you know I I love our location and I know I'm not alone in our business Park all right thank you do you have questions for MS lemak yeah I was just curious if sorry did did any of the things that he talked about earlier that help you at all or do you still feel like it would be a bar atmosphere I bars a bar your silver alcohol people drink they have a good time parking is an issue if I'm on the side of the building that I'm a joinha tool we don't have enough parking as it is it's very limited you put a bar in it's gonna be even worse for our side of the building I have elderly peopIe people in wheelchairs high-end quads that need to come in and get their catheters from us and they have to have close access some of them don't walk some use cane some use wheelchairs manual power whatever I need to have that open for them to get access to our building because some don't want us to deliver they want to come in and pick up their stuff it's like their their monthly thing they do and so that's like it's kind of different but it's a social event for some old elderly people that come into our store once a month so okay thank you thank you you state your name and address for the record my name is Kim France I wasn't planning on speaking today but I'd like to I live in Prior Lake but my business is in the same park know exactly Business Park which is 1 2 2 4 5 and then Colette Avenue when your map was up earlier my business is right under about the word area so we are right across it used to be the dough shop people liked asked about it all the time my business is twin cities escape rooms so I'm in potentially a little bit different situation in that I'm currently sharing some of the same operating hours that I expect that they would I'm pretty excited about the potential of it actually I definitely don't mean to take away from anything that mr. Lindquist that she said but my parking area is a little bit more direct with the shared parking spaces that would be taken up I'm not always there during the day Monday through Friday really like business hours but I sometimes I'm there are never more than four cars among us anyway overnight I've never seen a car I've never seen any more than one parked car for one of the businesses down the way a little bit overnight at all there were a few things I meant to say that its kind of forgotten if you have any questions perhaps that'll help me jog my memory any questions Robert so you're in favor of this I am Oh perhaps one thing I meant to say win the business used to Sado shop I've been in in place I believe 34 months I don't think I shared a lot of time with when the dough shop was there but almost all of my customer groups say it cost that doughnuts we would love to go across the way and get doughnuts I'm trying to kind of do a quick estimate in my head I would say 60% of my business groups are families and would really think it was fun to go ahead Sarasota and have a doughnut afterwards if that was available the other 40 probably is young adults and have people who are making more of a date night or a group date evening and they probably would enjoy a beer the rideshare option sounds like a great idea to me because from my experience if they're planning on gue bring home they also over there miss friends can you identify your business on the map that's on the screen right now it's about under the word thousand not quite that far over and if I'm right I should we share in the back there is someone I share the back all right are there any other questions for mr. ohms okay thank you so much is there anybody else who would like to address the Commission all right seeing none I'm going to close the public hearing at 7:19 and open the conversation for the Planning Commission thoughts comments mr. Roberts I I don't know what the rules and regs are for the city you can answer this how do we assign designated parking stalls to a business and in this case it's an existing shared parking area there aren't designated a property owner can choose to put up signage that might designate it as a certain businesses spaces and then there are designated accessibility spaces that are calculated out through the building code as to how many of the spaces are accessible for the space so it's down the road mr. Waddell I just wanted to clarify that the tavern use is a is an allowed conditional use within this zoning that's good okay just want to thanks Commissioner John I'm so back and forth on this I I have to say I really enjoy the idea of having a brew house here and Burnsville I think it's awesome that Burnsville is the place you want to come - I with a get bald man brewery over in Eagan and I think that's that's excellent Christian as a personal as a person I would go help move you in that's all excited I would be about this and I do love the escape rooms too so you'll be a great parent but looking at a Planning Commission and and seeing some of the complaints it makes me hesitate just a little bit and listen to miss limbic and and her concerns like I can understand them I really can because when she came in here she wasn't looking at moving in next to a pub or a bar or even a restaurant if you will where is the line because I know Grand Slam is very close to there and they have food and so this may take me a moment to go back so most of these are all be three and a restaurant would also be allowed in the B 3 district with this particular development it's that it is an existing plan unit development and the conditional use as well as some of the other part portions of the application made it a plan unit development amendment application rather than a conditional use icing okay that's what my confusion is coming from that okay I completely understand that miss Arnold do you know in in the two buildings that we've seen is it one owner for those two buildings that is the landlord for these tenants yes okay and so the owner of the complex is is comfortable with this plan it seems but as far as what the Planning Commission can do we need to look at what is allowable under the city ordinance and I from what I can tell everything that has been presented to us today falls within the standards of reasonableness miss Lin back I completely understand your concerns but unfortunately from my perspective some of those concerns need to be taken up with the landlord and the the idea of having available parking for your business is probably something that could be worked out as well sorry that's my son school but I think as far as as what I want to do here I'm supportive of the project I think it's a good idea I like the fact that you have some experience doing this we asked you a lot of questions and I'm sorry if that made you uncomfortable but you answered all of the the questions that we had so at this point after Commissioner Roberts and anyone else would like to speak I would stand for motion when I talked with the owners of the bald man brewing I'm Anton Egan but it's still down the road I mean it's it's in the wheelhouse of what we're talking about it's the exact same type of thing it's in a similar type of building there's offices and there's businesses right next so it's kind of slammed right into this thing they have yet to have and I was that's what my concerns were or a bar they'd love to see it right in the heart of the city that would have been great being across 13 is gonna be tricky but they didn't really have a lot of things going on and they restrict people from as much as they can't force people not to go outside they don't allow people to congregate in front of their building and things like that it was just a different type of atmosphere and as much as we are on the fence of things we love seeing new businesses come in I do see your a definite point of view I mean that that's what we're up here for is to look out for the best interest of not only somebody coming in but somebody who's already there so that's what we're here for the City Council obviously has final say on all this we're gonna be a go-between that type of thing so we want to look at all the things and we can add to whatever we sent to the City Council you're limited on parking anyway from where you are that was my question what's the possible designated stuff you're allowed to actually put up signs and say don't park here for these hours these are for my people I mean I I work yeah and see at that point at that point aside from the few that might go for a lunch or things like that the people coming to your building for you won't be experiencing somebody at midnight leaving okay the person that's going to get that's their supplies and things like that so from a timing standpoint it might work out okay and then we have to talk about being a neighbor you know you're gonna have to be if this goes through you're gonna have to be a neighbor and we don't want to have a whole lot of conflict going on with that as well and that's where you come in you know to be that awesome neighbor and assure her that these things are gonna work out and brewpubs are the up-and-coming thing I mean yeah I think they're a very nice atmosphere compared to your slam drunk bar we've all seen those that's a whole different dog and it would be different but I just had those comments to throw out there where yeah I was on the fence because I'm looking out for you but then I'm looking out for you because this is part of our heart of the city growth I mean the buildings were putting up there are going up and they're looking very very nice and we need to have some things like that they're gonna draw combination with your business I can totally see why a family or somebody would want to get involved with that so not take up any more time I just had to express that just to make sure that you know where I was standing but um thinking about you and thinking about you so thank you both for expressing your opinions Thank You mr. Roberts I did just want to for the record point out that there were two other people who had sent some messages in before the meeting one from fuller sales which is a neighbor and another from Carlson consulting and accounting which is a neighbor and they both shared some of the same concerns that you have and you know we don't take that lightly we one of the things and I think Commissioner John will agree with me on this that he and I are very conscientious of is the safety of the area and anything that we can do to at least get people thinking about that is important to us so if there's no other conversation I would stand for motion I'll make the motion can you can you put it back up on the screen so I can know there was so I move that we recommend to the City Council approval of the application of Cooper Johnson for a Planned Unit development ment amendment for a Tavern microbrewery to be located at one to two five seven Nicollet Avenue South subject to the following conditions the previously approved PUD shall remain in full force and effect order control shall be addressed should order create a nuisance the plan to be revised at the time of site permit applications show a panel sign and not a painted sign of an exterior of the building and an updated comprehensive signed plan for the building criteria to be submitted at the time of sign permit application do we have a second I second thank you all those in favor aye opposed motion carries and this will be up for final consideration by the City Council next Tuesday the 17th of September thank you alright so that brings us to our next agenda item which is a public hearing for Dean and Barbara Johnson Holdings for Planned Unit development amendment for exterior materials and landscaping deviations located at 1 4 0 for County Road 42 west and it's nice to see you miss Dean well it's been a while so this application was before the Planning Commission back in 2017 and if I can recall correctly I don't think any of the Planning Commission members were on the Planning Commission at this time so it's kind of a refresh from you although if you circle around the community you may be familiar with the building and the information that's gone on so this particular property it is on County Road 42 and Irving Avenue so it's northeast the site it was a precision to not oh so it was a single-user the property owner and applicant came in in 2017 and proposed a facade remodel that triggered a plan unit development amendment not only were there are some changes with the exterior materials the window coverage for the exterior elevations but also some setback deviations they reconfigured the parking lot so that was before the Planning Commission and City Council they recommended approval when those plans came into building permit they had changed up a bit so the approval showed a drive through around the building because one of the N tenants was supposed to be a coffee or doughnut type shop and that tenant wasn't secured so they were left with trying to lease out the space ultimately that drive through was eliminated and you have your three tenants that you have today five guys Jersey Mike's and Sprint so to catch you up as the request was going through the building permit process and the building permit approval process one of the things that they had to do to accommodate circulation around the building was remove a portion of the east portion of the building to allow circulation prior to to that when it was a purse is precision tuned there was no circular access throughout the property so they could have parted the building changed some of the exterior materials and unfortunately they were built as a concrete masonry unit that was not impregnated with color so it's basically like a gray block with texture which is a prohibited material in our city code so one of the requests for the planning and development deviations is to ask the applicant is asking that that be considered a permitted material under the flexibility that we have under the planning of development another thing that came about as the site was being developed and changed amended a bit the applicant property owner realized there's really not a lot of room here on paper it looks like landscaping can be placed but when you actually get out there and try to you know place trees and you're limited to you know 3 feet in width in some areas that's just not going to accommodate a full grown tree there's also some challenges with a site it basically sits in a hole so what the applicant is proposing to do is reduce the amount of trees that were initially proposed 13 trees and they're proposing to plant three trees but really beef up their shrubs their grasses and perennials around the perimeter of the site so I did a lot of talking um didn't pull up the elevations basically and the color picture is what was built that's the concrete masonry unit that's um colored and impregnated color and then the elevation on the left is what was approved through building permit which shows a base of a stone veneer with ethos above to blend in with what was built along the South elevation the applicants requesting to paint the concrete masonry unit a similar yellowish color to match the Efus on the building staff however is not supportive of that request what we have asked is that a material is affixed to the existing surface that meets one of our permitted materials within our city code and and we can be flexible of what's allowed just wanted to meet our city foot requirements and then the landscape plan basically on the left is what was approved a majority of the changes is the amount of trees to shrubs again the perennials and mix of grasses another item to point out that was referenced near staff report the original approval required or they had proposed a bike parking that was called out as a benefit to the site it has not yet been installed so staff is asking that that's installed prior to final you can see in the building with that staff recommends approval with the following conditions one that the elevations are revised to meet zoning code requirements that the property owner adds some directional signage around the site there was converted when I did a site visit there was a makeshift sign that showed circulation like I think it's had a one-way sign that we were just asking that they install something permanent to provide some clarity to people that visit that site and that part final occupancy that the bike rack is installed the applicant is here if there are any further questions I'm here as well we do have some questions for you miss Deane mr. John yeah my brother is an architect so it was it was nice to reach out to him to see if Eva sand in the seat he impregnated CMU compared to an impregnating at CMU all those types of things he said the biggest concern with painting it over is is peeling paint things like that making it kind of degrading the look is that the reason why the city wants to move to either efis or some other form of landscaping so the unemployed needed concrete masonry you know it is more of a plain unadorned look to to it and because it's explicitly prohibited I as a staff member can't sign off on this so how having the color gives I guess some added qualities to a building it's more permanent like you said you don't have to worry about peeling it just it's a longer-lasting if the color is integrated into the the product itself we do allow painting of brick and some concerns of that expressed in the past have been if it peels that becomes an eyesore with anything with peeling of paint ultimately becomes a code enforcement issue so that's good answer thank you yeah mr. Roberts was the brick basically the oversight that was made by the occupant and the city I read that there was an or there was a mistake that people they just didn't catch it is that basically what we're talking about so plans were submitted a memo was provided to correct the prohibited material the plans were revised and resubmitted what gotten to the contractors hands we believe was not final approved in their hands so the contractor went off of what was in their hands and not the city approved version okay and the Appleton can certainly correct me yes if I stated that incorrectly commissioner Awad I had the same question next question is about bike parking do you and I know it's it was on the plan do you for do are these businesses going to draw people on their bikes I drove around it too and and I think it might be kind of dicey riding your bike in that parking lot it was kind of dicey driving my car through that's my first question my second question is that the recommendation says prior to occupancy the building is fully unoccupied right I'll answer the first question then the second question for me so bike parking it was included in their original approval we do encourage just from a city standpoint if there's ever opportunity to add that as an amenity that that it be added there are sidewalks along County Road 42 and along Irvine so it is added benefit to those that whether it's dicey or not it does provide opportunity for someone to bike there also for employees some employees might not have access to vehicular transportation and so this provides a spot for them to store their bike safely and lock it up as far as occupancy yes prior to occupancy so they currently have a temporary temporary Co temporary certificate of occupancy they do not hold a final occupancy at this point thank you so the my question has to do with the originally proposed trees is the the worry that that will block view of you know the stores from 42 that's why they don't want them there that is a major concern of the tenants and from the property owner spacing is also of concern from a staff standpoint there's just it's a very tight site and not a lot of room for mature trees and they might look great as soon as they plant them but then as time goes on they'll probably start ripping up sidewalks and thrown into retaining walls and then it looks like a most of it on deciding this is now gonna be shrimps of some sort I'm along the north side of the building correct okay and and Italy still had that thinking about like the border by 42 cuz I see a little strip was there morning were those supposed to be kind of different shrubs that are being added there or is that gonna be anything in particular planting shrubs perennials grasses okay all right the applicant would like to address this mission the stitch name and address for the record mark wrote java companies st. paul minnesota thank you so just starting with the stuck on the CMU wall it was not buying intention i mean the cost it's both the same to do a seem your wall as it is to do stucco what happened and it wasn't the fault of the city i mean it was it was intentional wasn't intentional our contractor picked up plans that were stamped they had that seemed your wall and unfortunately those weren't the final plans so should have I caught that maybe I think if I looked at a hundred plans I would miss it on 99.999% I mean I just want to caught it I don't think anybody would I think if we gave you guys the same plans I think you guys would have missed it too so but long story short he did his job and he built what was on the plans that were stamped and when I actually have the original set of stamp plans not with me but I had a photocopy of them and I can bring him to City Council too and we wouldn't make a big deal of this zippers it's probably $17,000 costs two changes sprint are one of our tenants in order to get the man they need to be in by Christmas we had way to pave way in a season it buckled which tends to happen when the ground starts to freeze and that was at you know 25,000 overrun and all these little things you know add up and for unintentional mistake which if done right and is primed correctly and painted it'll look beautiful so I actually do have a breakdown of the costs I want to share with you guys if you want that for your overhead or put those on the overhead sure thank you okay it's not too fancy of a bad way to put together you know um set my GC put that together but it's pretty accurate I was at 24,000 we don't beat up some subs a little bit and got the price down a little bit but we believe if we do the correct primer that you know it'll look really nice and you know it was a mistake and nobody tried to do it you know so we're we think you know going back and doing the it won't look any better in our opinion and it would save us some money and help the project so I also have a picture of the stamp plans which I don't know probably so you know they were stamped by the you know by the city and then oops so P oops Peyton seem you split face block but so again you know if you guys have made questions but it definitely was not intentional and you know we wanted to look beautiful so we're hoping that you guys work with us and help us all and then it's just jumping to the landscaping our tenants have provided letters of support for this the building is the building the lotta Lotta is a smaller lot than our neighbors our neighbors if you look at you know it's from TCF - you know all the chick-fil-a that you know their own lot bigger parcels and they're able to put some of their trees in the back not facing coming around 42 on top of that they don't sit in a hole like we do so get a couple situations that kind of make it make sense to work with us in it hopefully from John a question for the applicant yeah so I don't want to tie your hands or anything one of them one of the one of the criteria for variance cannot be economic it can't be the $17,000 you're a I completely agree it was a mistake hardships is a right we think hardship not ii omits but as far as timing we have to take down the tenants signage and inconvenience and you know the small time it's gonna take him for no benefit in our opinion right you've done right with you know priming and painting correctly martine if i if i may just interrupt so the request is for a planning a development i just want to clarify that it that's a little different than a variance with the variance you do you have to prove a practical difficulty and you can't use economic as one of the reasoning this is a plan unit development so just again a point of clarification it's a little different sometimes they're they're used similarly but in this case what they have to show is that there's a benefit to the community as a whole that they're bringing something unique and different to the area that it's an asset that it's a maybe a unique material that we don't have listed in our city code that it's just as great and durable they're adding in exchange for deviations to setbacks they're adding so a solar roof and electric vehicle parking so it's they're kind of giving here but doing something great in exchange okay it's a little different so it's not really a variance it's a try it so it doesn't fall under the same criteria correct just a point of clarification thank you great point and I remember that actually no I didn't think of when we filled out the application or that's the way we decided to go with it so Miss Deane so the CMU the way it stands right now unpainted is also not permitted correct correct okay and so I guess what how did we get to this point did the city notice hey this building is not being built to the plans that we had approved I mean I'll be I'll be quite honest it did say it's a nice-looking building I think the seam you really should look better and so I'm curious just how we got here to this particular request so the application was submitted to the Planning Commission the building actually looked different than what it does right now through planning question City Council approval or City Council approval in 2017 to submit a loved building permit changes were made in the building exterior and it's till it met city code as far as breakdown in percentages of allowed material and minor materials and met everything we got them to the point where they met everything except for the east-southeast wall it was noted in a memo that it doesn't meet city code revise your plans architect submitted revised plans the stamp version I believe that that was given out was from our building department plans examiner it says on there there is a note that you need to meet all zoning requirements as well there is a note there so there at some point yes it did get messed that there should have been this change as far as the I just lost my train of thought but as far as the materials yes they're prohibited they it was flagged at time of inspection so what happens is a building is under construction our building inspectors go out they look at you know footings they look at the interior the exterior or the mechanical equipment electrical planners well we should we look at the exterior materials the parking landscaping doesn't mean all the approved plan the signs lighting yes at that and it was no noticed hey this doesn't match it i I went out there hey this doesn't match up with what what I signed off on something's wrong I need to alert Mark and his team which I did we've had multiple phone conversations email exchanges memos here some all it was built wrong let's correct it here are some alternatives that you can do mark had brought up you know the cost you know issues I and decided to go the route of asking for forgiveness after and which you can do there's that opportunity there's application which they filled out and and this is his opportunity to ask for an exception to the city code what she's asking for tonight was girls if I could I just want to explain for the Planning Commission the way that our building permit reviews work what happens is there are multiple staff that review building plans and building permits and one of them is the building official and their stamp was on it but there also need to meet everyone else's requirements and standards so just because there is the one stamp from that means it meets the building code part of it it doesn't mean that it meets the fire code it doesn't mean that it needs the zoning code etc so I just wanted you to be familiar with how that process works once everyone has signed off on the permit then there's an OK for it to be issued and and it goes from there thank you any other questions for the applicant okay just to remind ourselves this is a public hearing so I just want to say one more thing and it my experience on these projects to know GC the general contractor they going to pick up the plans directly from the city and we're gonna revise my process I'm going forward and it wasn't intentional the city I mean there's nothing but great people this has been a challenging project there's these ministers I mean she threw gina has been working for like two years on this I mean she's been a patron saint seriously she probably hates me because they cars wide but the city but nothing but amazing to work with and we're doing projects all around the Twin Cities and I gotta tell you I would love to come back to Burns gonna do some more projects because some cities is like they don't even want you know but I want to say is that we're not trying to come here and be cool with the city or anything like this it was a simple mistake and we just don't ask for forgiveness we put built their own thing or GC took the plans and built it and if we could have had it back and turn back the clock we would rather build stucco a winner of costs anymore it probably would have been even cheaper because we would have done like wood frame and anyway see you guys soon it would have been probably more economical to to do it that way so you know hopefully you work with us I think we can make it look great with a little bit of a little bit of paint and it'll look beautiful and you know we could even do maybe add some brick at the bottom I mean we're willing to be flexible you know you meet us halfway we'll put some maybe brick to match the facade in the front at the bottom you know so you know somewhere halfway right we're not reasonable don't go anywhere Commissioner John so you got to look at it from our point of view as well like if you were looking at the trees you were saying well some of these places don't have that doesn't seem like that the same creative mounts so if we let this go does that start the slippery slope to other businesses say why hey they got CMU on there and nobody said anything about that so we have to look at it both ways so nothing against you and we really appreciate your business here I love the fact that we have a Jersey Mike's here that's awesome this is a big day for us here but I was just gonna ask that would you be willing to meet us halfway would there be things improvements that you'd be willing to do to help us out so that we and and I think you answered that is there a way we can still move forward with the project or the allowance of occupancy given that over it frame a time this these issues become cleaned up or does that make sense chair if the Planning Commission wishes to make a recommendation with to change one of the conditions that's proposed you can certainly do that for example if you wanted to say the lower portion of that south southeast wall shall be revised to stone veneer and then the remainder of the walls shall be painted or whatever you wish the recommendation to be I think you have that that flexibility as your recommendation to City Council right it was fine we'll say in this so if we said maybe in five years would you be willing to look at that say over five year period be willing to make those adjustments whether it be using the Efus or anything on walls lines yeah I think we can just work into the budget at that point right yeah absolutely commissioner what I was gonna say I think if we're gonna it would be nice to see what you know what is it gonna look like if it's gonna be it's gonna change or even if it was painted be nice to see the rendering of what painted the painted black would look like versus the gray block well and at this point I think that's for a recommendation of the City Council it's up to our discretion mr. Roberts you know I get the feeling that we're pretty much all in the same boat here I think the landscaping issue we're okay there's there's sympathy where you're at you know when you're in a car driving you're even lower than standing absolutely yeah so where you're at is is tough so I can understand the whole tree thing and that shrubs the look good I'm actually inclined to say to the building look that bad right now I mean it's fairly sharp you know for other thing that's in there yeah I guess for us it's finding the right word edge to take this forward so everybody is on a give and take and I I personally don't know I'll rewrite this like that you know do we just ask for someone else if you can come back in I guess that's the other question for you would you want to come back and give us an idea what this is gonna look like yeah without rendering or yeah yeah everything then would basically be reworded and for us to look at a cleaner slate with something to look at it what it could be like it could do a rendering and if you like that stone veneer that we have in the front if we put that in the bottom if that would be kind of a meet in the middle I can definitely get the drawing up and we'll come back next plane Commission and I can show you guys exactly what a picture's worth a thousand words and yeah I my I had I was gonna have the architect do it and didn't quite get to it so unfortunately I think I'll have it done nice rendering so you guys can really see what it looks like but what I'm thinking in my mind is you know the painted block and then the the veneer at the bottom let's don't veneer that we have in the front of the building I think that'd be kind of a happy me in the middle type of did you show the bike rack in there yep I'm sure the bike rack will figure out where to put that bike rack you do you do you have estimates for the cost of painting the building and will you be using licensed insured professionals to do that yeah GC handles that our general contractor so you know I'm suing the answer is yes yeah so so the cost is negligible since you're all your group is doing it yeah well the cost the cost to paint that sidewall is both you know somewhere between mm I think is about $2,000 maybe 3,000 I could be mixing up a project in my mind and how much for the veneer if we went three feet up around the backside I think it's I think it's like 50 200 bucks 50 to 50 okay so it's both cuts about in half you know which guess we eat but I mean we just want to make progress you know and I think that's you know hey it happened Kendra he bought it so let's try to be fair and maybe I can definitely get that drawn up as far as a plan so you guys can see it okay I would like to have the public hearing now so thank you very much I don't I will open the public hearing at 8 o'clock if there's anybody who would like to speak to this and I will close the public hearing at 8 o'clock so conversation from the Commission what are your thoughts do you like the idea of meeting in the middle with some direction from the Commission as far as what the aesthetics should ultimately look like do you like the idea of going back to the final plans that should have been followed when the sides and the front were redeveloped or any other suggestions mr. robot yeah I just I just wanted to repeat that if it's gonna it'd be nice to see what's being proposed and so if it's gonna be you know it's hard to commit right now to meet in the middle without knowing what that's gonna look like and yeah some esteem the only there's no time constraints to this it should a extension of getting the final certificate of occupancy is that correct so a couple of time frames that we just need to be aware of is the 120 day clock for review of projects and I'm I believe we just extended that so I'm just looking at this staff report it looks November 14th is the extension granted so there would be time if you decided to recommend a continuance to bring it back to the next planning Commissioner of the following Planning Commission meeting after that we certainly have time built into the calendar to do that if the applicant is okay with that and then another we can extend the final occupancy as well so we have the authority to do that okay or a building official this thank you please come to the podium if you look up on the screen right here lower left-hand side if you can zoom in right there that is pretty much what its gonna look like other than this gonna be this is gonna be the same color other than it's gonna have texture with the block so really nice in my opinion I'm a distance you won't hardly notice it at all texture which I'm gonna unless Chris wants to go first further commissioners look at the lower picture and you see the Sprint sign come down to the ground and go to the left do you see that little veneer of stone yeah that's basically what's gonna be carried throughout that entire wall just like that and then basically the rest of the upper is gonna be the same color as the top of the building so it's all gonna kind of blend in that way I mean it will I mean this sprint sign is gonna pop that's gonna be one thing that's gonna happen but that's basically what we're gonna look at mr. John yeah I like that it's fine the only concern of course is my brother's concern on the peeling paint but it I'll go against Sam on that as far as I like the the stone that you have going around there but my recommendation would would be to still have well if that's the rendering we would have we need a continuance or would we be able to move forward with this right now I think mr. wad is proposing a continuance but has not made a motion oh that's how that's how okay is this the time to do that or is it are we still still in discussion there is no further discussion we can do that are we holding you back by waiting for well I think we had the rendering right here that's what I mean it's pretty much that right there do you zoom and you can see it just it's gonna be all one color the only thing has a little texture to it so I mean I could pay the architect to do that same thing where we can just look at it and you know make a decision now I mean it seems to make sense to make a decision now so it's unclear to me whether are you proposing just to paint the block or your posting to add the add the stone veneer like the drawing and then paint the block above it correct add the stone and paint the block okay so if that's something the Commission is comfortable with somebody will need to make a motion with that language to adjust I believe recommendation one you know alternative we can continue this for another two to four weeks or we can vote on it as presented by staff is there anybody oppose them doing that no mr. John does staff staff okay with them painting the building using that what are you against it so our recommendation is that they use one of the materials that is permitted within city code ultimately it's your the recommending body and so it's your choice to if you agree with staff or not to make a recommendation to City Council mr. Roberts well because it's City cold we really don't have a building to go reference and say oh this has been painted ten years ago and still find I can't think of anything off the top of my head what I can say is that recently through the Planning Commission and City Council process we have a loud painting of brick which was prohibited at one time that is now permitted within our commercial zoning districts so there has been some flexibility in that regard regarding painting of material there is concern though with this or with a any other product that you paint that peeling can occur over time and how we address that is through our code enforcement process so we don't like it to get to that point if we have a property owner is that that maintain their buildings but sometimes we do have to go to that fix our tenants will let us know too so I mean especially sprint right you're not shy alright thank you I'll propose a motion thank you so I recommend that the that we recommended the City Council approval the PUD amendment to allow for exterior materials and landscaping deviations located 1404 County Road 42 west with the following condition and this is where I want to change the first condition the applicant shall apply for building permit with revised elevation for the east wall - you know more closely conform to the rendering that we just saw and I'm not sure how to word that and what I'm trying to propose is adding the stone veneer at the base per the drawing and painting the CMU's to match the stucco is that okay and then the second and third conditions as they're as they're written can we make sure to specify that it will be primed prior to painting primed I don't know that we can just I don't know that that's within her you said within our it is on this particular issue oh okay however that gets right I don't know the best practices were yeah painting and priming this type of material but I think the best practice should be used yeah that's a good point so keeping it worded as it is and then adding or the stone veneer at the bottom to align with what the height is on the front of the building and then painting priming and painting with a matching color yeah to match the the front so I just amended your motion are you okay with half - okay and are you okay you can also get creative do we have a second all those in favor aye opposed nay and the motion carries for one that will go to the City Council next Tuesday okay so thank you very much we made it through our public hearing items and we are going to move on to some discussions on ordinances that we've looked at over the last year or two and I believe in as garros is going to be leading these discussions so we're at item number six on the agenda and this is a discussion for Planning Commission work plan item for conditional use permit and Planned Unit development administrative review one year Chuck in and Miss Carol's thank you this is the beginning of the year in the City Council kind of bless those and we're working through the majority of those I think these two they're not the last two it's very close to that so the first one here is the conditional use permit and Planned Unit development process basically what happened is the City Council wanted to take a look at economic competitiveness in terms of how the city of Burnsville deals with development projects and our reviews and also our performance standards as it relates to other other jurisdictions and they also took a look at not only our surrounding cities but our market cities which our communities like Plymouth and Minnetonka and several others st. Louis Park cities that are somewhat closely similar to Hubbard's villas so they took a look at that and a number of changes were made some of them to uses where we made uses like restaurants that were formerly conditional uses we made them permitted uses those types of things in this case when it came to conditional use and beauties Burnsville has a lot of Planned Unit development not all cities do that plenty of developments are great they allow flexibility kind of an exchange for public benefit his miss Dean has discussed they're great on the beginning part when it comes to the end they can be very cumbersome and we've found that over the years that's kind of a double-edged sword because yeah you get the deviations but then if uses change or they want to do something else that seems reasonable but it wasn't made part of that Planned Unit development you have to go through this process of public hearings and formally amend those so what the Planning Commission took a look at is are there ways through a Planned Unit development and a conditional use permit to allow staff to have more administrative abilities so that not so many applications if you will have to come through this formal process they wanted to make the ordinance and our processes more business-friendly if you will we had six meetings total with Planning Commission and City Council work sessions regular meetings reviews so there was quite an extensive look at that we had a consultant WSB that did also some extensive review and presented that information back and what we came up with were a couple of things with a Planned Unit development what that is I think for a lack of a better way of saying it it's kind of a contract if you will for what the zoning district is when you look in the city's zoning ordinance you see different zoning districts and there are different requirements and uses that you can have in those districts well for our Planned Unit development what that does is it basically takes the plans as part of the project similar to what we just looked at and those become the zoning district if you will so it's a combination of the plans that were approved and all of the conditions that go along that are approved with that beauty so that's the zoning district there the city attorney took a look and there are not a lot of opportunities for us to make changes to peds because it is a specific zoning district what we did do is in the PUD in the ordinance that ultimately gets adopted zoning or changing the zone to a Planned Unit development we were able to add a provision if if Planning Commission council feels it's appropriate that other types of uses in the underlying zoning district can still also be done in addition to whatever the specific PUD is for there have been a few of those that we have been able to do in terms of how is it working today this is really something that's going to be more useful for the older Planned Unit development and as we go forward we've not had a number of them you know any that I can specify say yep we adopted this ordinance no we have ten that worked and five that don't so we really don't have that at this point but we do know that some of the older plan unit developments were very specific one I can think of is on frontier Drive over by Valley Natural Foods there was a - there are two or three I think three little office buildings and when that was approved there was a huge neighbor involvement big task force and what they did is they identified specifically small business uses could go in there we recently had an application for pewdie this has been within the last couple of years to do a daycare nursery and that ultimately no that doesn't mean small business so that use I mean it wasn't allowed for other reasons parking and whatnot but that just gives you the kind of that idea of it we have to research every Planned Unit development and every conditional use permit and see what exactly it was approved so this we do believe will be helpful in the future but we don't have any specific numbers on it's it's done these things to this point with regard to sorry about that with regard to conditional use permits we have again that that is something that in the ordinance under each zone there are uses that are permitted meaning you can basically just come in with a building permit and do those there are accessory ones meaning that as long as it's a subset or subsidiary if you will to the principal use you can do it and then there are conditional uses and when an ordinance is set up cities will take a look at and they'll say you know these types of uses we think generally fit in this zone but they may have some there may be some particular things that we should take a look at in making sure that they won't have adverse impacts to adjacent properties and what so things like churches are typically a conditional use in residential it's a big facility it's not a single-family home and it's just the difference is you take a look at traffic and noise and and certain parameters so what we did is we were able to change some of the conditional uses to make them committed uses and I think that that has been beneficial we have a couple of restaurants that would have been conditional use permits and now basically they can just open if you will as long as they new building permit criteria so with that from a staff recommendation we believe that the ordinances are still appropriate and valid we don't think that there needs to be changes made to those at this point in time and it's something that really is it's been a year since they've been adopted so a lot of times the Planning Commission will like to see them come back in a year just to see kind of how things are working if there are any modifications that need to be made and in this case staff believes it how they will work well you know in the future as we go along dealing with all of these planned unit developments and we don't believe that there is a need to further modify those but it's a discussion item it's on your Planning Commission work plan and that's why we're here if you feel differently to let us know and we will proceed with the direction that you provide to us thank you miss girls so I actually was watching those meetings from 2017 that's what made me late believe it or not and it was it was interesting commissioner binky was was talking about how I didn't mean like the 10% on the building extensions or yes had we anything come in for increased size of building or anything that never came forward to the City Council or the Planning Commission because it fell underneath the 30% we haven't yet but it's not just because it's 30% it's because there are other other parts of the code that weren't necessarily met or close to being met but we do believe again 30% does give more flexibility it's just that if it's a conditional use permit or PUD chances are there were other deviations other than just that size standard but we do believe that it was a good a good move and will be beneficial in the future so if there's other deviations that require to go before the Commission's can those building extensions be brought up or is that not necessarily the case if you have the you know if you're able to use the CP the it would need to come back because it's the zoning district so to consider something else but if it's just in addition we've had a couple of additions that have come close but they have maybe just been a little bit more than 30 percent but it's come close I don't know if Regina or Sarah if you have any comment sir and whilst of the vet clinic from April was was close when they originally came in for their expansion before it were they even have formally applied for their CP amendment but they also had other factors involved such as that they were a non-conforming use since there was a variance and incorporated into that request as well and they ended up expanding larger than they had originally intended as well so come close but nothing exactly we've had much more results from the uses that used to be conditional than we are conditional than with anything else as girls say you had something that met this these new staff approval criteria but there were still concerns that you had and it didn't necessarily have any other issues would you still bring that to the Commission or would you use the 30 percent or any of these other new guidelines as a yes or a no type of decision we would really follow what the actual ordinance language is and the approval language and if it's something that we feel is not you know within that spirit and intent we will usually err to bringing it before Planning Commission and Council as opposed to having staff approved something that you know it's like well really think that that was appropriate so that's usually how we we try to do things would rather rather bring them forward and have you have the opportunity to review it what the public have their input and and go from that point well thank you for that all right any other comments from the commissioners do you want to see this again in a year I would look at your guidance on this do you think it's something that we actually would need to see I mean everybody just gonna review the same thing we're doing today it'd be basically the same same type of thing yeah I think it's gonna be an incremental you know type of thing that will help but you know it's not a big like now all of a sudden wow we've got 20 or 30 days that's great processes right there some Willie I don't see it ever as staff trying to sneak it under the radar it's just let's move things along and I mean we save a lot of people's time if we're able to do that that's not have them coming from the Commission that was okay so I don't believe we need a motion but there are we are we comfortable with recommending that we continue moving forward and that we'll have ad hoc updates as necessary don't need one it's totally up to you this is your work plan alright so let's go on to the next item which is discussion Planning Commission work plan item for annual solar ordinance review now this one has had changes it did have quite an extensive review the ordinance before our current ordinance was basically yes you can do solar and that was about all there was there wasn't much of anything in the ordinance so we did a pretty extensive study looking at both local and national trends and standards and performance criteria and also I mean Solar is just it's booming and it has been for the past several years there are some tax incentives and rebate programs and now even power companies are are involved with it so it's something that definitely I think is something that's good to have we have modified the ordinance of a couple of times based on some tweaks for some changes and I think those are good changes what we have basically there are a couple of things just for your general knowledge there are communities that allow solar as a principal use if you will those would be the solar Gardens you know the larger solar farm solar Gardens those types of things when Burnsville when we were going through the ordinance process the City Council and Planning Commission felt that we are really a fully developed community and even the areas that aren't developed yet like that are in the Minnesota River quadrant they do have Planned Unit development approvals on them so there are concepts as to how they will develop so the feeling was that as a principal use they didn't feel that that was something for the city of Burnsville but they did recognize that we do have a lot of different rooftops lots of different buildings out there and there's an opportunity to do a larger scale accessory type solar development so that's really where they fell that the that the ordinance should come from so then we took a look at these our accessory type uses pretty much if it's building integrated that could be anything from like a solar awning or any type of solar basically if you can't see it or it looks like it's part of a building exterior material there are some really kind of neat products that are out there that those you could do do those just with a building permit there are some other standards that they wanted to take a look at for like panels solar panels that's the more traditional thing that's out there they're coming up with some really great solar panels and things that just they don't look like so we're at all but that's a little costly and that's not really what's in the incentives programs at this point so we did modify the ordinance to remove some standards requiring they wanted at first to have the panel's not so much the panel's themselves but anything surrounding the panel or equipment depending on if you have a heat exchanger or if you have you know water involved there are different processes for different types of applications so they wanted them to have colors that match the roof for example in City Council ended up taking that out really the only thing that is still in their deals with if there is a glare situation that becomes kind of a nuisance you know then we may need to look at it it has not been an issue so far in all the applications that we've done and then we also had another issue with the panel arrays they were trying to get to the design when you're putting these on the rooftops and more so like when you're dealing with single-family neighborhoods they didn't want to have you know panels just all over the place so they tried to craft some language and we put in there that the panel arrays need to try the shape and proportion of the roof that they're on that was very difficult to administer and also what happened is triangular panels when the ordinance was first put together were readily available but the manufacturer stopped making them so when you have like a hip roof for example you no longer have that opportunity for those triangular panels so trying to meet shape and proportion Planning Commission and council just thought you know let's let's take that out and so they did and I think that the ordinance has worked well since we haven't had any issues that have come these are the number of permits that we've had a sense the ordinance went into effect in 2016 and the 2019 figure isn't done yet we still have some other ones I'm sure they'll be coming in but you can see it has been increasing we have a lot of larger solar installations school district buildings they've been adding a lot of solar panels and I think a lot of the industrial buildings too especially in the large industrial park north of 13 have been doing this and it's just something that makes sense to help them reduce their costs of operation the the next part of this is there is an organization called Sol smart and they are a group that has been put together and they're working with the Metropolitan Council working with local communities actually this is part of a federal program trying to make solar as easy and least expensive as possible and trying to really get at the regulatory aspects of it in the permitting because that tends to be where the bog comes down you know kind of slowing things down for solar so what they have done is they have a series of recommendations and criteria that they've looked at nationwide and they actually reviewed our ordinance we have a local sustainability team made up of staff members from different departments and we try to look at all sorts of different opportunities for sustainable resources etc the council did adopt a program and we participate in the program we do get part of our energy resources through solar farms but they're actually located in other communities and that is it's a consortium that also involves the Metropolitan Politan Council set those up so we do that in addition to that Sol smart had some recommendations or things for the city to consider so we thought that this would be good to bring to the Planning Commission because you do the center review of this ordinance in addition to sustainability and parks and natural resources and those types of things so I had indicated what the kind of what their recommendations were in this table and a little bit in terms of the staff considerations and what what we thought and how we use the ordinance and we used their examples and we put together the brochure and some of the checklists that were in your packet that we would put on our website and the building official was taking a look at them and they're pretty much good to go again kind of self-help mostly for residential but really for anyone looking to do a solar installation so so this was included I think based on our review of the ordinance things are going well with the ordinance it is constantly changing technology and I think that it is a good idea to keep keep the ordinance on for your work plan to take a look at maybe in a few years you know if we have a few years in a row and there isn't anything you could consider taking it off but our recommendation is to to continue to bring it back for your review and just update you on what's happening in that field thank you any dialogue can we go back a couple slides to just mr. Anderson what is considered to be a solar farm it's just the size of the land is it I get me like as an example if Brent law Center said we want to cover the whole roof with with solar that's a huge area but since it's on already very large building is that not gonna be an issue the difference really is that the solar array becomes the principal use of the property so there isn't anything else there it's just the solar array where as our ordinance is set up so that you can do you know you can do these things on these larger buildings but it's not the principal use so that that's where that comes into play mr. Roberts yeah I would think being a city that's developed like we are we don't have that can you go a couple slides back this is just a simple question but right there there's no zeros at a ton of these or nothing that's 9 yep I was looking at the permit numbers and wondering is that gonna be at times whatever but that's what we're looking at okay so we're not really Bowman I know the spectrum of solar is big yeah but for right now we're not really okay no I know a lot of it really relates to I think the the different tax incentives that are available and a lot of those are actually ending here you know in the next year or so so you know we'll see if that continues solar energy is a big business now and I think it will continue but yeah the number of permits we really don't have all that much no John yeah I was at the State Fair we saw a lot of they had like the Eco area I mean it's becoming a big thing and if you actually look in 2017 it was three residential it tripled in 28 and down with 2019 yet so I would agree it's going to be a bigger thing and it's a good thing really to move it's a resource that's out there that is just waiting to be captured so but yeah I think keeping up the date on that is a great idea and keep moving forward that's my recommendation anyway miss Carol so some of the examples that were in our background some really creative uses of Schouler panels in some of the pictures just like I'm guessing we talked about this last year but can somebody completely eliminate their electric bill by putting solar panels on their house and can they actually capture enough electricity to then sell that back into the electrical grid yeah that is possible we have we are at the same latitude as Germany Germany is a leader one of the most progressive nations involved in that and yeah that is totally possible I think it's great that this is the assistant sustainability team can they come next year when we discuss this the city has been very successful we've replaced all sorts of lighting with the LED lighting we have one of the only green roofs is on a City facility it's on the city water water plant site we do I mean they have done all sorts of analysis and everything from taking a look at our vehicles a couple of years ago we went to starting to use Prius and hybrid vehicles we just installed the electric vehicle charging stations to city young city facilities so it's a progressive group and really it's if you go to the website and just click on the sustainability tab they have a little dashboard that they show and it's pretty amazing the money that has been saved one of the biggest things is because of the recycling of the water supply down at the kmm quarry we save just a ton of money and that's something that that was totally wasted that was all just being pumped out to the river and being able to reuse that for both city of savage and burnsville just pretty amazing stuff she said as far as solar goes the city is is tapping into other communities solar grids do we have any solar assets ourself right now we well we have they're ours there's a lot of solar asset when we did the 2040 comp plan one of the things that we needed to do was to include a solar map and there's actually a resource that you can get it was developed by the University of Minnesota you can look up your own home and see what your solar capacity is it's really a cool thing and there is a lot of untapped capacity here I think as the technology continues lot of people don't like the look of the panel's but this new stuff that's coming out for these solar building materials ripping it looks great I mean it looks like an architectural you know an architectural shingle for example they're already available in those prices as I start coming down I believe that people are really gonna be using those quite a bit any other comments we'd like to see this in here I take it all right thank you we'll hope to see some more of this sustainability sustainability team or at least maybe a picture so they don't have to come in the evening sustainability man - really [Laughter] we don't where's mass all right so thank you very much miss Garros and with that we will move to any updates that staff has your next meeting will be a September 23rd I believe and we're passing out the draft agenda right now for that meeting so far there are two two items that will be heard that evening and then as far as the Lake Marion trail that actually will be going to City Council in October they it does need to go into the parks and natural resource Commission first and they just weren't quite ready to have that done so we don't anticipate any changes from what Planning Commission saw it but your recommendations will go you don't ask you as you provided them and it's just the council meetings delayed about a month and a half remember if we talked about it two weeks ago but they were planning if they got approval this would be development next year next year okay so there's time exactly okay yep that's it your site updates from the Commission mm-hmm all right well I'm gonna do a j4l side I guess we'll hold a vote all those in favor aye all those opposed and the meeting is adjourned at 8:41