Here is the transcript with speaker names added based on the context provided and the dialogue within the meeting. **Note on "Justin":** While not explicitly on the provided staff list, "Justin" is identified in the dialogue as the staff member presenting the Enclave and Matthew Global items (likely Senior Planner Justin Fortney). *** **[0:00] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** 2022 regular meeting called meeting to order first up is the approval of the minutes from the previous meeting on january 24th commission any corrections additions comments if none we'll consider those uh to be approved all right next up public hearings we do have several here tonight okay um first uh public hearings could be the nathan stencil rezoning special use permit preliminary pat platt final plot and site plan 2021-50 and john will be presenting all right thank you mr chairman i'm just going to rearrange the whole desktop here to where i wanted to be and lose everything so let's try it one more time **[0:47] John Hinzman (Community Development Director):** i guess that's going to stay on that side. All right so the first public hearing we have tonight is a consideration of a couple of different actions related to an apartment complex proposed by nathan's stencil stencil development group this is the location we're looking at here this is third street to the north uh bailey street bailey parkway which goes along the railroad spur to the east 4th street to the south this is tyler street over here and then a few residential properties directly to the west of it so the actions we have before your consideration tonight include a rezoning of the property rezoning it from i1 industrial park to dc downtown core a couple of special use permits pertaining to the shoreline ordinance one for having a building over five units in size the other one for impervious surface coverage over 25 percent **[1:40] John Hinzman:** preliminary and final plat and then the site plan for construction of the building so i'll go through a little bit of background here then go through the individual permit requests looking at the project the comprehensive plan guides this area for mixed-use high residential so this proposal conforms with our comprehensive plan we did make a change to that late last year the zoning of the property currently is i1 industrial park the resorting to dc also conforms with our zoning code when you take a look at the existing condition of the property there's a couple of different things going on here you've got a house located to the western side here at 404 3rd street east that was purchased by the stencils for incorporation into the development **[2:26] John Hinzman:** and then you have these properties over here which are currently owned by hedra the hastings economic development and redevelopment authority we are under contract with mr stencil to purchase those properties from hedra and one of the requirements of that is to get the land use entitlement so that is under contract with hedger for purchase history of that site used to be former ubc property this large storage building here was used by ubc and most recently by the city of hastings for storage as of today i think it's mostly down so we did sell the building at auction to another individual who moved it off site so that was what the site would consist of itself the home here would be demolished this property here is demolished to the north here is a kind **[3:11] John Hinzman:** of a unfinished parking lot area that would be incorporated into it there was a neighborhood meeting that was held on this property back in december of last year be able to introduce the proposal to the neighborhood at that time about five residents attended sharing concerns about the height of the building balconies setback to residential area and long-term ownership of the property we did provide notification this time to everyone within 350 feet of the property we received one email in support of the application which is included in your packet so what are we looking at here for applications this is kind of a look at the property right now you can see the residential properties to the west the building coming down the former ubc storage here looking to the northwest by the bailey bike trail this is looking east from tyler street **[3:58] John Hinzman:** back behind some of the residential homes towards the the site itself this is looking from third street south this is another building that the city owns part of the old ubc site that we still use for storage and then this is looking north towards the river and second street this is uh hastings art space over here right in front of it is a 100 space parking lot owned by the city and then the bicycle trail located here so first thing we're looking at is rezoning of the property we're looking to rezone the property from industrial to downtown core downtown core is in purple here so you can see that a lot of the surrounding property to the north is already zoned downtown core this district **[4:43] John Hinzman:** accommodates both residential and commercial looking at higher density properties within the downtown area and as you take a look around the property the remaining property to the west is zone industrial park and property to the south is owned commercial you may wonder why the heck of the property is zone industrial park it really never was industrial it's a good question i suppose the operation of ubc may have been termed that at some time with our outside storage activities but certainly does not contemplate the current or what we want is a future use of the property so we are recommending approval of the rezoning on the property itself the other aspect we have here relates to special use permits i'll go back to here within the shoreline code there's a couple of uh **[5:29] John Hinzman:** there's requirements for development when things are located within certain distances of lakes and rivers properties within 300 feet of lake or 1 000 feet of lake isabel so there are certain requirements that come into play here one dealing with special use permit for any structure over five units in size that one frankly is a mystery to me i don't know why that's in there but it's a template ordinance that we are given to by the state this is over five units as our other properties within the downtown the imperfect surface coverage is one that we that we look at we certainly don't want to be in a position in which we are adding unnecessarily to the impervious surface coverage in an area given this downtown site and its **[6:14] John Hinzman:** dense nature and the fact that most of it is as hard surface to begin with and doesn't create any it doesn't have any drainage facilities or storm water treatment on the site right now and post development it will it'll will increase the impervious surface slightly going from 78 percent to 88 percent on the site however the stormwater management of the site as as water leaves is going to be in a better condition so looking at those two we are recommending approval of both special use permits looking at this as transforming a former industrial site into residential development having storm water management which does not currently exist as some of the major reasons behind it looking at the preliminary and final **[7:00] John Hinzman:** plot very simplistic there we're taking a number of residential lots that are part of the original hastings plat and replied them into a single lot of records so no streets really no public facilities within there and there would be a vacation of an alleyway which is shown here which is something the city council will review as part of the plat application when when this gets before them this would be subject to a storm water maintenance agreement as well on the property there are some trail encroachments towards the north that we'll we'll need to make sure are taken care of as part of the platte agreement parkland dedication would be paid here we did have the park and recreation commission review the plat on february 8th and their recommendation was the **[7:47] John Hinzman:** payment of cash in lieu of land and then there's payment of some sewer interceptor fees as well a lot of the individual site review will be done as part of the site plan itself we are recommending approval of the plant and now getting into the site plan stencil is proposing to do is to build a four-story residential building over a first floor of at-grade parking so a total of about five stories all together this is how the site lays out here when you look at this this is the the building itself that comes around parking area to the east there is a raised outdoor patio play area here above the the upgrade parking so they act great at **[8:34] John Hinzman:** grade foundation goes something like this and then this is cut out at the first floor for activities and then the building goes up four stories from there so this is what it would look like on the site itself when we take a look at vehicular access in circulation third street access would come in from the east go into the parking lot and continue around via a one-way south to fourth street there would also be an access here into the act grade parking which should be located at this facility so those would be the two access points from a building setback standpoint within the downtown core district there's not prescribed minimum setbacks looking at the setbacks that are being proposed here they are pretty tight being within the downtown area to the **[9:21] John Hinzman:** north it's about five to 18 feet to the to the third street property line to the east about 65 feet to bailey street 10 feet down the south towards 4th street and then when you're looking to the west area to some of the residential it's pretty tight it gets down to five and a half to seven feet when you get to the property line itself pedestrian access to the site you've got the hastings mrt trail which comes through to the north and around the site here site access will be provided here we're also asking for another access point down here along 4th street to provide access to that so trail access is good on the site looking at parking within the downtown **[10:06] John Hinzman:** area areas that are zoned downtown core are applicable to a different parking standard than what we have with the rest of the city we can utilize the shared parking standards via the urban land institute and ite those standards would have one point between 1.2 and 1.5 units parking spaces per unit what they're proposing here is 1.2 which is within that range and we're recommending that that is acceptable per the code and the ability to use those shared parking looking architectural design of the project this is a image here kind of showing the height height of the project is about 55 feet **[10:51] John Hinzman:** here from foundation to roof and then this shows the setback here about 70 or so feet back from that to some of the two-story structures and then this shows another three-story structure within the neighborhood that is the the cda building this is what the the building would look like itself it would be primarily brick with some metal limited use of cementitious siding which is kind of this light gray area the window sizing in place but has been designed to reduce the massing of the building and meet some of the historic patterns of the of the downtown so it meets a couple of requirements we have one is the heart of hastings design standards which are necessary as part of the downtown core **[11:37] John Hinzman:** district the other one is our architectural standards via zoning which has different material requirements on it and this certainly meets that with the design of the property so we're taking a look at this this is the view to the east towards bailey this is the main entrance this is the north towards third street towards the red rock corridor parking lot i guess this is the main entrance it's right that's the side of it this is the south towards third street you can see this portion of the building is directly on uh on fourth street this is set back quite a distance here because of that kind of funky shape of the building and then this would be facing west so you can see the ground floor here of the parking and then the units above it here **[12:23] John Hinzman:** this provides a little better representation of what it would look like here from uh from looking from the the east the main entrance here towards the east side of the building towards bailey and this is what it would look like from the west side of the building the residential area being over here the ones where the houses are closest to it so that that's how this lays out we are recommending approval of the site plan based upon the conditions in the report itself so commissioners this is a public hearing tonight for various activities related to land use you may open that at this time or i could stand for any questions i will note that nathan stencil and pete stensel from stencil development are here if you have **[13:08] John Hinzman:** any questions for them thank you **[13:10] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay thanks john all right and this is a public here we'll go ahead and open the public hearing a couple ground rules for the public hearing if you're going to speak you need to come up to the podium you need to give your full name and address and we don't want to have any dialogue back and forth between the between where people are seated and staff up here so if you have any questions comments or concerns we want to do it at the podium so it gets on the record okay all right so the public hearing is open does anyone wish to speak go ahead and raise your hand no one um this is also on zoom as well do we have anybody on zoom raising their hand **[13:49] John Hinzman:** yeah i'm looking at zoom right now i don't know if there's any individuals on zoom that wish to address this i i know i did talk to one individual there that had some questions earlier but not sure if he wishes to address the commission at this time **[14:04] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay and i don't see anything here okay all right seeing as there's no one to speak we'll go ahead and close this public hearing and i'll open it up for commissioners and if you can kind of raise your hand because i can't see all the red lights through the plexiglas i so wish there's any comments concerns **[14:38] John Hinzman:** yeah i do do have excuse me commissioners i do have one hand that did go up here if you'd like to to to take that at this time **[14:46] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** oh we got a hand up all right we'll go ahead and jump back into the public hearing real quick **[14:49] John Hinzman:** all right then i will uh have clarence chapman joining the meeting here and he should be up in just a moment okay clarence for you on mute you're on and you're all set **[15:04] Clarence Chapman (Public Speaker):** uh thank you commissioners i just had a question i noted that john mentioned this building would be 55 feet high and all the two meetings i've been involved with so far i'm wondering what the explanation is that it's going to be taller than 48 feet now **[15:24] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** in mr chair what i might do is uh invite mr stencil up to the podium at the conclusion to answer any questions that come up do we have anybody else clearance does that conclude your comments **[15:46] Clarence Chapman:** yes thank you i just would like an explanation **[15:52] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay thanks okay so he was the only one then john **[15:56] John Hinzman:** yes that's the only one i have here **[15:58] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay so we'll go ahead um can you raise your hand so it's here for this mr stencil okay no problem um you want to go ahead and answer uh mr chapman's question about the difference in height between the 48 and the 55. **[16:15] Nathan Stencil (Applicant):** thank you uh nathan stencil sioux falls south dakota 5700 josh wyatt drive um so at the at the neighborhood group meeting that was held um i i don't know how long ago um more than a month ago um we were still working through some some issues on site design in regards to um bedrock a significant amount of bedrock on the site plus the water retention that we're going to have to be doing on site we're still probably a little up and there on the final height we're going to do everything we can to get the building down as low as possible within reason but just for the sake of this purpose we wanted to come forward with the worst case scenario **[17:09] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay thank you you want to go ahead and just um hang on tight there for a second um if there's nobody else on zoom okay nobody here commissioners we'll go ahead and open up for a discussion of mr stencils at the podium if you have any questions for him commissioner lebron **[17:23] Commissioner Lebrun:** okay um yeah so i just have two quick questions regarding the trail number one i'm aware through other means of a in potential uh vermilion river greenway project on that bike trail actually that goes on the east side of this site um yeah so i just wanted to make sure that with that'll be a dakota county project um so just make sure you're aware of that and then any coordination that needs to happen **[17:51] Nathan Stencil:** oh absolutely basically yeah definitely **[17:53] Commissioner Lebrun:** and then related to that this being um in close proximity to you know the hastings trail system i was wondering if it would be a possibility that you might consider adding some bike parking or bike storage as well **[18:04] Nathan Stencil:** oh yeah we'll have a significant amount within the building itself and then some outside too but it's pretty standard for these buildings and obviously the trail is one of our biggest amenities to the site so we want to do everything we can to take advantage of that and and be a good neighbor to the trail so **[18:23] Commissioner Lebrun:** sure fantastic um and then sort of related parking wise i was also wondering if there was any consideration to any electric vehicle charging stations **[18:31] Nathan Stencil:** we will definitely have them we put them in every building now so yep **[18:35] Commissioner Lebrun:** all right that's all **[18:37] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all right thank you commissioner lebron commissioners any other questions comments mr tykan **[18:43] Commissioner Tykan:** thank you mr chair uh this the stormwater are you gonna do underground is that where we're gonna **[18:51] Nathan Stencil:** yeah yes **[18:52] Commissioner Tykan:** so it's gonna be better than we have today right **[18:54] Nathan Stencil:** yeah not that it'll take much on the site in its current form but no i mean it'll it'll be of the highest standard um of uh retention that that is you know up to code and everything that we need to do so **[19:07] Commissioner Tykan:** okay and then john we notified all the residents right and and we did yes uh my my concern is the i don't know three or four houses right next to it they're gonna have a huge building in their backyard but it's zoned i those houses are zoned i2 **[19:25] John Hinzman:** yeah the arizona industrial park yeah industrial so within the course of this application there's been three public hearing notices that have been sent out well three notices one for the the neighborhood meeting that mr stencil sent out one for the comprehensive plan amendment and then one for the actions tonight and nobody from those houses responded **[19:50] Nathan Stencil:** if you'd like i can answer this one john but um so we we have been um well we acquired one of the homes already um that tim rowan was the name of the owner and that's where kind of this this hell that comes out is in that area and then we've reached out to everyone else on the block and attempting to buy all of their homes um mr tim mcneely here he had moved in and him and his family moved into a home in about i think around august weren't really aware of everything that was going on with the site so we've been in communication with him on once we get through the proper steps here we're going to be working with them to acquire their home and allow them to to move to a location that they prefer unfortunately the other people that were in the block did not well i shouldn't say that two of them did not reply at all after many attempts one of them did and just said they're not interested because ideally we would have liked to have them all so that we could expand the building footprint not be so tight to the to the lot lines on the other side unfortunately um we didn't have any interest um to sell so **[21:13] Commissioner Tykan:** okay i mean this is a great reason why people should show up if they don't uh like something or they like something um yeah that would be my only concern and it sounds like we did proper notification and you actually talked to most of the people so **[21:28] Nathan Stencil:** yeah and we and we like said we wanted to acquire as much of the block as possible um in fact unfortunately we only have one one person um but we're going to follow through and work with them um to to uh since they weren't aware of the situation and they'd prefer not to have this in their backyard we understand we want to be good neighbors we're going to work with them to to help them um not have that in there to get rid of the new home and and to move on so **[21:55] Commissioner Tykan:** thanks i i do appreciate and um i mean this is great i it's great to see a site that's been vacant for so long actually be productive back in our community so i appreciate you guys uh taking this project on and i guess i'm in full support of it thank you mr chair **[22:12] Nathan Stencil:** thanks **[22:13] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** mr tykan. This is just a question of a general kind of zoning question but if the portion where the building is going up or potentially go up would be rezoned to downtown core would it not make sense to change the zoning for the rest of it from i2 because it's not it doesn't seem like there'd be anything within that block that would be representative or necessary for i2 would that ever be rezoned or is it you know not up for discussion because of potential plans to purchase those properties in the future **[22:52] John Hinzman:** good question commissioner yes certainly the the i1 designation on the on the zoning does not match anything that's there now nor anything we want to have in the future on their comprehensive plan that area i think is designated for for mid-density development the difficulty in rezoning prior to what might happen on it is you know you may zone it to a zone zone it to something and then it may have a different use in the future right now all those the i don't i don't have any indication that the existing zoning is causing any ill effects to the properties there if it did that would be a time to consider the zoning other than that it's more of a waiting to see to see what might happen on that block **[23:44] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay. Commissioner Romans. **[24:05] Commissioner Romans:** thanks mr chair uh just a quick question for mr stencil you mentioned about uh either purchasing the properties or have purchased the properties next to them just out of curiosity do you have plans for what that may be is it just will you keep the build the house is there raise them what's the just the general **[24:25] Nathan Stencil:** so so the the home that we've already acquired um is actually the building is i mean it'll be gone the building footprint covers it um and that that house was key to getting it um you know getting the building to the density we really require to make a project like this work um this other home that we're going to be acquiring is more of a mid-block house that's much smaller doesn't do a lot for a use of parking we are still exploring what the final results of that are i don't know if we'll we'll buy it and and use it as a tear down to create more green space or if we'll buy it and create some green space and then still rent the home out or something so we're not removing it from the housing stock in the community we're still trying to you know we want to get everything we need here approved and then move forward and start exploring those options **[25:12] Commissioner Romans:** okay yeah thank you i was just curious on that when you brought that up but otherwise i love the aesthetic of the building i think it fits very well i kind of like the uh the brick um kind of matching other places downtown so thank you um no i appreciate it thank you **[25:31] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all right commissioners any other questions **[25:40] John Hinzman:** all right seeing none entertain emotion thank you thank you just a point of clarification mr chair here i know we've got several actions related to uh the approvals here so it's up to the the individual maker of the motion if if you would like to include all four of the actions for rezoning special use permits preliminary final plan in sight plan further recommendations you may opt to do that if you want to do them individually that's an option as well so i'll leave that up to the maker of the motion **[26:08] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** sounds good i mean they're all closely related to one another so commissioner Halberg **[26:14] Commissioner Halberg:** chair i'll make the motion to approve the rezoning special use permit preliminary plat and final plat site plan for 2021-50 stencil addition flats on third **[26:24] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** and is that for all four **[26:26] Commissioner Halberg:** yes **[26:27] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay for all four yup **[26:29] Commissioner Romans:** all second **[26:30] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all right we have a second any further discussion okay and john do we need to do a roll call or can we do uh voice votes **[26:41] John Hinzman:** oh we can do voice foot we're all in person **[26:44] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay we're gonna go ahead and do a voice phone today so commissioners all in favor say aye **Commissioners:** aye **[26:50] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** opposed motion carries **[26:52] John Hinzman:** okay and uh commissioners this recommendation move forward to the city council at the next meeting of the council on the 22nd of february they will take action on first reading and ordering a public hearing for the rezoning and then the actions for land use would come before them on their first meeting in march thank you **[27:14] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** thanks john all right um we have another public hearing next uh this one is for enclave companies rezoning preliminary plat final plant and site plan 2022-12 for county crossroads 4th edition apartments 300 block at 33rd street west and for this one looks like we're ready to go **[27:36] Justin (City Staff):** all right thank you this proposal to construct two apartment buildings includes three general requests the first is to rezone it from c4 to r4 preliminary and final plant approval and site plan for the two apartment buildings and garages the subject property was guided and zoned commercial for many years without any interest in development though there was interest for development of residential on the site the site was specifically studied during the last comprehensive plan update and at that time it was changed from commercial to medium density residential which allows for both either either r3 or r4 residential zoning the c4 zoning that the site has currently is called regional shopping center and allows for commercial retail and service businesses the r4 is a higher density residence that allows medium to high density residential particularly when the buildings have a single entrance like apartment buildings or condominiums **[28:53] Justin:** either in either the r3 or the r4 would allow the density that's being proposed with the difference being r4 is generally guided for uh buildings with with the one entrance and r3 is more for multiple entrance buildings like homes eight plex units things like of that nature the kerry park so i'll go back to the other map to the south is the kerry park subdivision which is zoned r3 prd plan residential development making this site being one density designation up from there which would be a good transition between the residential and the commercial district **[29:38] Justin:** aside from the subject property there's still 6.31 acres of vacant commercial property in this area for future development there's also a similar amount of commercial redevelopment potential sites in the area this is the future land use map the star is the subject property and you can see the it's guided towards medium density residential those blue stars are vacant land that's still zoned and guided for commercial development this is a aerial picture of the site you can see those blue stars and the properties that are guided towards commercial and vacant and then some of the area businesses around this area and these are some of the photographs taken from the the shopping center area this is the entrance from vermillion you can see uh some of the businesses in that entrance there and this is from 33rd street looking to the south of the subject property this is looking more west from the same street and this is looking north from tiffany drive there's currently uh this is where a path from that subdivision extends to the north into that property and then this is looking from the parking lot to the east of the strip mall oh this is a picture of the platte that's being proposed just for some background on planning the preliminary plat will organize the parcels of land to prepare them for a developable subdivision and they're reviewed at this time to determine if they meet all the ordinance requirements for land subdivision and the final plot would be approval of the final plot would be the official creation of the plat to be recorded with the county and at that time it would obligate development fees from the owner and it would allow them approval uh for construction of approved construction plans in many cases like this one they're proposing the preliminary plat and the final plant at the same time so just some features to point out on this plat is some of these areas that are circled are just highlighting drainage utility easements for mostly utilities that are present there there's creation of this outlet a which would be between the subject apartment buildings and the kerry park subdivision to the south which is used for detention ponds there's one currently here to the east that's where the drainage comes from most of the shopping center currently and then to the west would be more for the drainage from this this site here and it shows just some other drainage utility easements this is a aerial picture of the site with overlay of the proposed site plan in white the blue circles are kind of highlighting the connectivity to area streets and the shopping center **[33:30] Justin:** the red this red circle to the north here is showing a deletion of a driveway that currently comes through the site back into the shopping center which likely was serving more for uh future parcels that were they thought would have developed back in 1990s when this area was developing commercially it doesn't really add a lot to connectivity into the site because the very next main entrance comes right into the center of the shopping center they're still maintaining that as an entry entrance to the north parking lot for this proposal and then the existing drive between 33rd street and vermillion street will be maintained and repaved there's a red circle in this area highlighting an area of concern for terry's hardware that they're working with applicants on making sure that they will have turning radius and ability to unload their commercial deliveries in that location the bottom here just showing the existing ponding basin and um it's highlighting the connection of that existing sidewalk from kerry park up through into the site with uh connections to get into the the shopping center area **[35:06] Justin:** and this is uh just the actual site plan and it's um we've got a couple of things to highlight here there's some trash enclosures that we're looking to get some a little bit more detail on and these blue ovals are showing where probably are missing sidewalk connections this building too which is at the south doesn't have a connection through the sidewalk to get to the north or to the to the east in addition to that the building one is the building with all the amenities for uh recreation and if that building has if those tenants have access to that building they should at least actually have a sidewalk connection to get there but they may also want to consider having a another entrance on the back of the building so they could get there more easily or swapping and putting the main entrance on on the back side of the building and kind of redesigning the configuration of that building oh and i missed these uh also there's no loading zone shown on the site plan near the entrance to the building you know with with buildings you know this size you might have a lot of unloading or dropping off of people but probably more likely is going to be a lot of deliveries from from packages to the tenants and the only place really to for those people to park right now would be in front of parking spaces or garage doors or the driving aisle there is this one area here that maybe one could be incorporated into it's it's not terribly far from the main entrance otherwise um actually at the entrance and then same thing with building number two it may impact 10 parking spaces or so if it had to be done in areas that have parking currently but it's fairly important this is a picture of another building in town here that was built recently that has a has a loading zone so you could envision a delivery truck being parked there for for a little bit while they're delivering packages without causing any issues with um vehicles and then as far as parking goes they are required to have based on the 211 units 422 spaces under our current parking requirements which is uh uh two spaces for every one unit they're proposing uh 391 spaces which is a ratio of about 1.85 and according to their projects that they develop that's enough spaces for what they see at their sites but in order to meet our requirements um we have to you know meet the what's in the code currently in this shopping center area there's a existing easement that allows cross access and parking and as i'm sure you probably would assume there's there's ample parking in that shopping area to meet their their deficiency to the two spaces per unit even if it's if it's not needed it'll at least meet that and then as far as architectural standards go uh for medium density residential they're required to have a certain percent class one materials which would be glass and masonry type materials and then 25 percent class ii materials which would be more imitation materials that look like you know primary materials or in this case they're proposing uh fiber cement board siding which is considered a class ii use and so all their all four sides of their buildings will meet that requirement not just the ones that are required to facing streets and residential areas i have them labeled on one of these slides but these are some renderings of what the building would look like it's uh three stories tall and it would have detached garages it would be white fiber cement siding and black doors and roofs this is the architectural materials the there'd be white and black horizontal fiber cement siding and i believe this is maybe a board and batten fiber cement product it labels that brown is wood and brick and glass there's several more pictures in your in your of packets different elevations the landscaping plan shows a berm as required between a parking lot and uh and a street on the north and then on the south between the area that's for the the ponding basins and between there and the residences to the south is a thick barrier of evergreen trees of mixed varieties they have quite a bit of landscape islands in the parking lots and on the ends of the garages i think the only place that uh one was missed as per the zoning ordinance is uh in this north parking lot on the south side there's a extent of more than 30 spaces without a landscape island so just one more is needed there and notification was sent published and sent to property owners within 350 feet we didn't receive any comments other than terry's hardware reaching out to them for concerns for making sure they have maintained access to their building with deliveries so with that there's a public hearing required for this request and staff can answer any questions you'd have **[41:48] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay thanks justin we'll go ahead and open the public hearing do we have anybody here okay sounds good come on up and then name and address if you will **[42:02] Shay Holm (Public Speaker):** my name is shay holm and i live at 378 cary park lane and i i think i only have one question and and i the question is the ponding basin that's behind kerry parklane will that remain as is this i think is my only question let me make sure and i guess i'm just kind of curious too if we know um kind of like a price point area i don't know if that's something we know about these things or not yet but that's my only question thank you **[42:37] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** thank you appreciate that justin are you are we prepared to answer the question about the ponding basin will that remain is the concern that the ponding basin will be redone you like the way it is or do you already **[42:51] Shay Holm:** well it's directly behind my house and it's kind of that nice buffer zone between anything that's going on in the field and we actually do get a lot of wildlife that kind of comes from there so i guess my concern is i don't want any unless it would be made better i don't want it **[43:08] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** so your concern is it's going to be removed or it's going to be it's going to be redone some way that it's going to be maybe smaller justin is that something we can answer now or do you want to get back on that i'll pull that one over here oh is that are you the applicant **[43:35] Joe Bailey (Engineer):** uh i'm the engineer civil engineer on the project oh okay okay perfect um joe bailey with samatek 12800 whitewater drive minnetonka minnesota okay and um yeah to answer your question the wet pond on the east side would remain completely the same we'll we will be expanding that west depression to utilize for infiltration but the the wet pond will remain the same **[44:00] Shay Holm:** perfect thank you **[44:02] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** uh anyone else in person go ahead sir come on up **[44:11] Terry (Terry’s Hardware):** terry representing terry's hardware address is one three one two five idel avenue hastings um nininger township um just wanna clarify our concern so we have been i've been talking to mr brockman about it since we've sent the letter to the city to end it into brian as well just to clarify more of our concerns it's more you know being able to accommodate the joining of the two properties completely on all all edges and the increased traffic there is an easement that does exist currently between the properties it was designed essentially for a commercial retail development the traffic and parking and stuff that went along with that this is substantially different i can't say that i oppose the project my concern is being able to control the traffic around our building safely being able to accommodate our ability to load and unload freight trucks again safely someplace for them to be and not to completely block traffic because right now essentially our unloading zone is the southern driveway that would be sitting straight west out to highway 61. and just knowing what i know about the general area and the traffic a substantial amount of the traffic will migrate to that exit if this development goes forward you know is that is what is being presented in the site plan going to be adequate to handle the traffic and still be able to uh accommodate our ability to function for on handling freight out on the back side of our building again these the general layout was originally designed for some for commercial shared retail commercial area and that's not what we have now so we'll let me talk to joe and brian and we're in conversations okay what can we do about this um my concern is it wasn't on the original site plan and also we weren't made aware of this project to even comment on it prior to a week ago didn't even know it was going to happen so um that's a little bit of a concern as to why we never never even knew it was coming and had a chance to kind of make some input again it's not my not my place to oppose this project i just want to make sure that traffic parking can function and with us there and and safely handle both of those subjects so **[46:49] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** i'm familiar with that area because i live over there but yeah so your trucks they come on they turn they go on to 30. **[46:58] Terry:** they come they come off 61 well they come off of all 30 33rd and and 61 and the larger unload load and unload on the back of the building and the majority of it yeah that's the south side south side yep and then so they use that kind of that non-descript roadway as an exit **[47:19] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** yeah exactly yeah how do you describe that loop **[47:23] Terry:** yeah i don't know i see so they kind of do a loop around the building and that gives them the access it gives them the access right i think we can accommodate the access that my concern is when the truck is staged there and we're loading and unloading off of that truck right now it's parked essentially in the center or just to the side of that roadway um **[47:45] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** oh that's right yeah that's because the park's on the road right **[47:48] Terry:** yeah i've seen them unload on there exactly yep so they're parking there while we load and unload our loading dock is an overhead door just to the north of the edge of the property on that back corner so and that also is the road that's proposed to be one of the the major artery into this complex and that's what your concern is that's yeah that's yeah that's a battle between the two right exactly to not block traffic but also provide a safe place for me and my staff to navigate around a delivery vehicle loading and unloading product not get run over **[48:21] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay so i got a good visual of it thank you all right appreciate that do you have anybody else wishing to speak hold on one second just is there a way to pull up that picture that shows the um oh yeah you can pull that question just so we can have a better idea why are you doing that john do we have anybody on zoom with a hands up **[48:47] John Hinzman:** mr chair we do not **[48:49] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay there it is so just maybe you can just kind of outline the road that we're all talking about for those that may not be as familiar with the area that i am **[49:03] Justin:** so the semis come in that way this terry's heart will be the south of the building yep and they come around here so they load right there on the south part right yeah the cabin would essentially be part right right yep **[49:33] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay thank you justin thanks can't we we can go ahead and leave that up that's a good shot there okay do we have anybody else wishing to speak come on up **[49:46] Brian Bachman (Applicant):** hi hi i'm brian bachman i'm with enclave companies out of west fargo north dakota um yeah we i it was totally my fault that um uh pete and i didn't connect before this um but we were we were able to talk through on friday afternoon and literally in an hour because joe's a whole lot smarter than i am uh was able to put together a pretty good concept plan where basically we are going to take some of that green space between our site and terry's and basically come up with a way to get a truck to load there so that we aren't blocking the street because we have no desire to have that street blocked either nor to have anybody have getting creative of trying to go around a truck because that'll end well um so we're we'll i have very little worry that we can get that um solved um on our site or with a combination of what he's got there the other but we can find a way to get him parked to on the side of his property where he has room to get back and forth to his door with his with his um loader and then we can uh get him in and out of there without having to have anything messy **[50:57] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay thank you anyone else go ahead come on up **[51:11] Tim McNeally (Public Speaker):** uh tim mcneely 319 tyler street i mean it's related to what he said about not being like adequately notified and like finding out midstream when we purchased our house it was apparently the day after the city put a post in the paper about a meeting so we didn't find out about the building on bios on third until like november that that was even happening so like i second his uh not being notified like adequately like we had zero idea it was like a what so um i think we could maybe do a better job of at least notifying adjoining properties and make sure people no because they're just seconding the being surprised by something that you didn't uh expect and then completely changing you know way things function for you so that's it that's just a acknowledgement of i feel his pain **[52:05] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** well thank you um yeah typically we see the zoning part first and that kind of gives you an indication of something that's coming this is kind of a unique one where we're undertaking the zoning and the plait all at the same time so i didn't know about it either this is my first hearing about it you know so sometimes that does happen where we don't have that long span of time but um john do you wish to speak to that **[52:32] John Hinzman:** yeah i mean when we have an application before this body will provide notice of that and is it going to provide the the timeliness that people will maybe want perhaps so perhaps not pertaining to situations in which one buys into a neighborhood we're always available to answer questions we answer lots of questions daily from folks that are looking at property that call us up and say hey what's going on and then we can tell them and then they can provide a property purchase with the rise wide open **[53:29] Justin:** okay thanks john um chair if i could also just add something justin yep go ahead um you know a lot of times when projects like this happen it starts off with a developer calling up and asking us questions you know there's really nothing to notify anyone of until we get an application and uh we have something to notify you about um you know if you are going to buy a property and you wonder what's going to happen you know behind it we can say well we've been getting a lot of calls from developers interested in doing something but until we actually have an application and have a you know something that's actually being requested there's really nothing to to notify you of and we don't you know typically have these you know just these plans sitting on our desk for months at a time before we have a meeting here when we get them we start processing pretty quickly and reviewing them and sending out the notices it just you know seems to kind of happen probably quicker than than you'd be wanting **[54:39] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all right thanks justin anyone else who should come up and one double check on zoom before i close it zoom mr chair **[54:50] John Hinzman:** okay sounds good **[54:53] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all right seeing no one else here to speak we'll go ahead and close the public hearing open it up for questions comments and if go ahead and commission your romance **[55:04] Commissioner Romans:** uh thanks mr chair um justin a couple quick questions one quick question on this is i've noticed there's a lot of conditions on this one um going through just and a lot of them are pretty minor modifications to the plan um you know some some things that come in front of us obviously take a lot of conditions just because of the gray areas or the complex complexity of it wondering why so many of these weren't worked out ahead of time **[55:40] Justin:** well i mean half of them are boilerplate conditions that were on all of our reports i normally have you know condition in the reports about working with the engineering department on drainage they had given us a lot more specifics of their items that they're going to be working with them on and i ended up including them in the report whereas normally those specifics wouldn't be maybe included in the planning commission report which makes the list a little bit longer but it's it's you know more just additional information rather than a long list of things that weren't uh weren't completed **[56:41] Commissioner Romans:** okay okay i just kind of want are there some specific ones that are an issue um just certain things you addressed in here too of the including the loading zones and the um you know the sidewalk system stuff like that where um i would have thought that might have been worked out before you know through this process um you know obviously i agree with those statements i think they're both um very applicable and should be added to this plan if we move forward with it just wondering you know i normally just see a lot is it been moving quicker than normal or just just wondering **[57:24] Justin:** no i mean well we do a preliminary review of these with our inner department uh meetings and then at that time we give them all the comments and uh they give us revised plans but you can imagine while i'm doing a staff report some other details are going to come up and of course don't want to let those get uh get forgotten about so they're put in as conditions **[57:48] Commissioner Romans:** no it's more of just a question of curiosity on the process just for everybody's explanation on it so i appreciate that uh the other thing is just regarding what at what level is like a traffic study required i don't know if um you can add to that **[58:05] Justin:** um i'm not sure if we have any kind of a policy on it uh generally it's if we have any concern that an area might not have been um contemplated for uh commercial development of a certain size **[58:20] John Hinzman:** john yeah i mean taking a look at the history of this subdivision here this was originally planned for a large grocery store that's what was originally supposed to be planned to the site rainbow was was going to build and play on this site so you can imagine the roadway network was was set up for a large retail center down there now when you take a look at a hundred thousand square foot grocery store versus 211 apartment units i don't have the specifics is from a traffic standpoint but they both generate a lot of traffic on it **[58:53] Commissioner Romans:** yeah okay yeah no just curiosity on at what point that kind of triggers in here because obviously you know it's quite a few vehicles coming in and out but if it was designed for that that's appreciated um i think that's all i had thank you **[59:04] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all right. Commissioner Matzke. **[59:06] Commissioner Matzke:** so we're asked tonight to look at doing both a rezoning or rezoning a preliminary and a final plot what's the difference between the the preliminary and the final and do we have do we can we hold off on the final until we've seen some of the changes and seen some of the details worked out on on the road conditions there between terries can we can we maybe do some of those things in in our right that's what i'm reading here for it says are we looking to do a preliminary and a final platform or is it um **[59:51] Justin:** well if your issues are related to the site plan um it would uh probably be best to if you felt that the unknown issues are related to the site plan then you couldn't uh well i find approval **[1:00:05] Commissioner Matzke:** i'm not opposed to approving a preliminary i guess i'm wondering what the final plat what the final plat is going to look like if if there's going to be is there's going to be some modifications yet to the roads or something like that or is that something that won't that won't be affected at all **[1:00:23] Justin:** it's not going to be affected the only plans that are going to be affected by anything that changes for incorporating differently to the other sites are going to be related to the site plan the property boundaries are not going to be changing so the plat **[1:00:40] Commissioner Matzke:** so i'm just making myself understand the process the plat is just basically is the site is just going to be platted out as apartment buildings it's not going to how they're laid out could be still changed um the plat is just the underlying division and ownership of the property and easements it's not going to affect any improvements okay all the improvements are going to be in the site plan okay i'm just no i'm that makes things a little more understandable **[1:01:06] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all right thank you i think what he's trying to get is we just want to make sure that there's a place to unload trucks that that that situation is taken care of and that's not out there lingering and causing uh consternation or concern for terry's well and because they've been there for umpteen amount of years so we want to make sure that that's taken care of and that's not going to be i i don't problem because i don't know what you're trying to get to **[1:01:34] Commissioner Matzke:** yeah i don't want to hold up the process i think it's a good plan i just i don't want to approve something that says this is our final and that's the way it's going in right and then have it come back and and then terry's having an issue with this you know i want to be able to to have something we can go back and say no this isn't quite right we need to work this out and make sure this is that everybody is satisfied in this process **[1:01:54] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** right exactly because this is a unique one because the residential is sprouting up into commercial and so you've got to take into account all that stuff um and then as far as the highway 61 is midnight involved in this at all **[1:02:11] Justin:** yeah we provided them a copy of the all the plans and uh they were hoping to have uh preliminary um comments to us by today and uh they sent me an email and said their preliminary comments are that uh access and drainage permits aren't going to be necessary but they'll have other comments so that wasn't terribly helpful but uh but mndot is involved **[1:02:40] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** the only reason i ask is left turns onto 61 from 33rd are kind of like roulette especially during rush hour and traffic coming into town doesn't slow down at the 45 like they're supposed to and they certainly don't slow down at 33rd and now we're adding another significant left turn right turn just to the south of 33rd that nondescript road that i called it isn't used now except for maybe an occasional semi coming out from unloading that's now going to be a main artery in and out of a development where we're adding potentially 391 total parking spaces which means that we could potentially have 300 more possible vehicles using um two roads that clearly are very very difficult to navigate left turns on right turns aren't easy either but you know you can usually make that pretty pretty simple except in the winter time but yeah so that's my concern is that the highway 61 and then the left turns from 33rd into 316 are much better than they used to be either but that's here north here and there i can't do anything about that but um i mean it is what it is i mean we're adding we're really adding like 400 more cars into it in an area that already sees a lot of congestive traffic between 61 33rd and then that that one road so as long as mndot's involved and they're doing a study on it i'm okay with that but that needs to be done the way it sounds is it was designed to have a lot of traffic with a commercial it was back in the day back in the day so so i don't see that as yeah but i'm good mndot does need to review it though for 61. just so the applicant knows that that's a that's not a it's not an easy area to navigate in and out of if you're taking left turns either off at 33rd and now you've added this new artery so and then plus you got the semi you got to make sure terresa is taken care of because the last thing we want to do is create any accidents at that intersection with residents and semis turning in and out especially during the spring when all the spring deliveries are taking place because i've seen it gets pretty busy he sometimes has two three trucks lined up unloading fertilizer and plants and i mean i i live there over by there so i see it every day so yeah make sure that we have that all under wraps so that your residents aren't putting themselves in any danger there's not any safety issues back and forth okay does terry's currently own the parcel directly to the west of his property or is that somebody else's property all right that's all my comments commissioners you have any other questions commissioner tyken **[1:05:43] Commissioner Tykan:** thank you mr chair um the new stormwater is that going to be a wet pond or just an infiltration zone **[1:05:51] Joe Bailey:** the smart guy will come up and answer that so the area to the west of that existing sidewalk connection to the neighborhood of the south that area will be utilized as infiltration just okay so right now it's uh i believe a dry kind of depression similar to what it will be today it'll just need to be expanded slightly for the you know increased impervious area **[1:06:17] Commissioner Tykan:** okay thanks um and then i have a question about the trail to me it looks like it just dumps into the parking lot **[1:06:23] Joe Bailey:** yeah we're still working through the final layout of that um we'd like to kind of have it follow along the pond so we're working out just kind of the exact details of that location and and maneuvering the garages around to make sure we have space for that the current layout is a sidewalk that goes up here and then it goes across a couple of uh driving aisles but with with complete sidewalk we had commented that we'd like it to uh kind of remain how it is there's kind of a walking depression in the grass along the pond um so they showed a like an easement area for that but there's not probably enough room to go between the parking lot in the in the pond currently and they were going to be looking at seeing if they could do anything in that area but it does you know maintain a connection currently with the sidewalk but it's just not as straight a shot as we would like to see **[1:07:11] Commissioner Tykan:** yeah and then with that kind of our concern with um having the garages on that east side where the trail would um existing kind of travels is then you're directing people behind a row of garage buildings which isn't necessarily you know the most ideal safe route that would be that could be yeah and that was my other question those aren't actually parking lots those are actually buildings those are individual garage stalls okay yep that's gonna look way different than i imagined um and the drop-off area is uh that's a listed in our is that number 16 okay uh then my other question was about traffic issues and it sounds like mndot's involved so we're good there other uh you know this is **[1:08:04] Brian Bachman:** i can answer your question on the on the drop-offs and loading areas because we always basically like all of those parking spaces right by those entrances we'll have visitor and drop-off parking there we just do that through signage because same thing we um the last thing we need is the amazon truck because dm especially talk about christmas time we have 55 amazon trucks coming so that's always an issue for us yeah the connectivity we did talk about putting that on this side because it was funny we really didn't think about that up front but then when you hit google earth on this and you zoom a little bit um you literally can see where people are walking just like the reason this roadway kind of crosses there there's a roadway in the grass when you look at google earth people have just been making one so we basically okay we need to have some connectivity because people are making it whether we want to or not so we wanted to at least be able to control it but yeah that was really the only concern there is it's going to be kind of a darker area we would rather have them kind of come up and through the lighted area where it's um we like to have walking traffic so so as they kind of come back to the the east there they'll be marked yeah yeah there'll basically be a sidewalk that'll walk like you said it goes up here you can come down this way this sidewalk will also come that's what ties this building to the clubhouse area there's there's a multiple sidewalks that actually kind of come through there that we do as kind of a walking period area so people can walk dogs on one side and have together and have pedestrians on the other side **[1:09:27] Commissioner Tykan:** okay so thank you thank you **[1:09:30] Brian Bachman:** no and i mean i guess i apologize i didn't introduce myself very well but we um a little bit about us is that we um we came to the twin cities in 2019 um we've got 12 different projects that we're working on throughout the throughout the metro um we're a development company we're a construction company we're a management company and the best part and most important part we're also the owners the long-term owners of our projects we don't build and sell projects so being good neighbors with terries with the neighborhood everything else is always very important to us because everything we design everything we build and everything we manage we intend to keep for a long time so having good long-term neighbors always is very important to us thank you **[1:10:12] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** thank you mr true all right thank you commissioners any other comments commissioner lebron **[1:10:19] Commissioner Lebrun:** yeah um kind of on the same sidewalk vein i also noticed that i don't know if i really see an accessible i guess access to 33rd i know there's a sidewalk along 33rd that connects up to the trail now um along 316. so i was wondering you know with that connection to kerry park area to the south if there's a way we can get that you know permeable through and also for the residents of the apartment to be able to access 33rd and make it to zoom out a little bit you know to the wider network um and then also i took a spin through the vermillion corridor study as well and this kind of has a sort of a model site development that i looked at as part of that and it did mention something about um you know trying to have parking in the rear whenever possible i know there's some along 33rd there but i'm just wondering you know if there's a way i wasn't aware that there was a berm requirement either justin that was a new thing to me okay i guess to me i would rather it's still an apartment building but i guess it just feels like more of a it would be more part of a neighborhood or part of the streetscape if that wasn't necessary **[1:11:47] Brian Bachman:** the reason we set the building back and have the parking in the front really wasn't for us it was really just to maintain we didn't want to bury the bank and we didn't want to bury terry's to where we so we really just tried to find where everybody's setback was and tried to give it a more retail setback there that's not our favorite parking area but it was really when we had when we first drew it and it was right up there on the street it really kind of overpowered everything and we didn't want to do that yeah so it was more of a building line thing **[1:12:07] Commissioner Lebrun:** okay um but yeah so i guess that would be my main thing is that sidewalk or trail permeability of the whole site from the kerry park area i guess i just kind of see an opportunity for the wider neighborhood and then also yeah that sidewalk along 33rd i know kind of tough shape too having been down there a little bit just wondering if yeah there will be a access for the building and the site to access you know accessible way to get through there um out on the 33rd and then out you know to 316 and beyond so yeah i think that's all i got **[1:12:43] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay thank you commissioners any other questions my only final comment is just make sure you have a plan in place for the lights during our mayfly hatch otherwise you're going to have a mess so that's all i got to say so hey crimson there's any other questions okay did i even close the public hearing i don't even remember i'll go ahead and officially close the public hearing if nobody else wishes to speak thank you all right all right what's that oh hey commissioner lebron go ahead **[1:13:25] Commissioner Lebrun:** um same questions as the other apartment bicycle parking was it a possibility or consideration **[1:13:31] Brian Bachman:** yeah we always have designated bike rooms bike repair stations we actually talked about maybe doing some outdoor bike repair stations and this this whole kind of dry pond wet pond area was really kind of unique because it's a lot of green grass that we can't use so a lot of it was trying to figure out what we could do on that dry side and that's some of the stuff that we've talked about is maybe some outdoor exercise stuff do we have a bike repair station there do we do some different things like that no bike ability has become a huge thing for us all over the city we we love to talk about where we can build projects where we're walkable and this is cool because it is one of the things we like about it's what you're walkable to a grocery store you're walkable to a lot of different things oops sorry but bike abilities is ultimately what um we measure things for we because any time that we can use um have people not having to be quite so car centric it's um it works out a lot better for everybody **[1:14:28] Commissioner Lebrun:** yeah and i guess my my line of question and that comes from and maybe this is a wider comment just for you know maybe a question for john and uh justin is um you know there's there's pieces i know in that people movement plan that was adopted a while back um that and it's not formalized right now that um ask for or talk about basically adding a point in the checklist for this type of question **[1:14:55] Brian Bachman:** so this project's a little bit different for us because since we have exterior garages it makes bike parking really easy for most folks um whereas when we have underground parking and other things like we have to be a little more creative but no this will this will have uh probably some of the better bike parking that we have **[1:15:13] Commissioner Lebrun:** okay yeah and then um good good to hear i like that because yeah like like i mentioned um now that the 316 project is done a lot of those connections they're still not perfect in that area but they're better better yep so that's good um and then yeah the electric vehicle question **[1:15:33] Brian Bachman:** it's you have to remember we're from north dakota so we're a little slow we don't do north we don't have have nearly as many of those um so when we first started building here we basically wired for them right we're like okay we know it's going to come eventually and then our management people got into town and they're like okay we we might need a couple and then it was we might need five now it's like how many can we have um it's just the reality of where we're headed right so we try to do our um we try to do all of our technology stuff um where if we're not doing it we're wiring for it we're planning for it so you know like all of our buildings are are planned to have solar at some point in time we aren't going to do it today because as of right now it's still not financially feasible for it to make it work do i think it's going to be that way 10 years from now no i think we'll probably solve some of it i think in 10 years we're going to have a whole lot of electric parking vehicle i think it's going to be the opposite so we have to try to plan ahead for it but my goal is always i try to never get too far ahead on technology i figured the turning point is going to be when all of our cell phones plug in with the same charger that's the time we go all in on car chargers **[1:16:41] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all right thank you [Laughter] commissioners any other questions [Music] all right if you uh do choose to make a motion remember you can combine all three or we can take them individually you decide when you make the motion and then your motion would be also subject to the 17 conditions on the back plus you need to address any of those individually with that commissioner romance i just have a quick uh point of clarification if as i comment about having 17 of these if we should add an 18th on uh for terry's making sure that's taken care of if that's something we need a condition on or not you can always make the motion i can you sure can uh alright then i will make the motion okay i'll make the motion if i can find my paperwork uh to approve the uh rezoning of the preliminary plat the final platinum site plan of the county crossroads fourth edition with the 17 included conditions and one condition that the um the parking for the semis is taken care of um i don't know how well that works as a condition but of that nature **[1:18:04] Commissioner Tykan:** mr romans i'm sorry commissioner tyken can i suggest that we make it that the parking parking is taken care of for uh semis that are not in the public right of way **[1:18:24] Commissioner Romans:** i agree i would agree with that is that a possibility even **[1:18:28] Brian Bachman:** i'm so the all the drives on the site will be private they won't get public right away but we can make space for it outside of the i guess out of that traffic **[1:18:38] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay we just want to make sure that he's got the access he needs to unload the truck safely and they're not interfering with residential traffic because it does get pretty busy there spring and fall okay so commissioner romans we have a motion on the floor to approve all three and then add an 18 condition the condition is that the applicant will work with terry's hardware to ensure that there's sufficient area for commercial traffic to unload off the public right-of-way on a private air in a private area am i correct you got it all right so that's the motion on the floor do i have a second commissioner matsky **[1:19:35] Commissioner Matzke:** i'll second that motion mr maskey on a second **[1:19:38] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** do we have any further discussion any new discussion all right seeing none we'll go ahead and uh take a vote all in favor say aye **Commissioners:** aye **[1:19:46] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** opposed motion carries and when does that go to city council **[1:19:49] John Hinzman:** uh follow the same track as the last one we'll go to city council on the 22nd to order a public hearing for the rezoning and that public hearing and the remaining land use actions would go to council on march 7th **[1:20:06] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay so there will be another public hearing correct another public hearing coming and then city council so okay thank you thank you thanks for coming okay we have a another public hearing number five here um this one is for rise up recovery special use permit 2022-14 operation of a state license residential facility 305 fifth street east and what the report is john **[1:20:34] John Hinzman:** thank you mr chairman planning commissioners before us as an application for a special use permit for a state licensed residential facility containing board and lodging with special services it's being proposed as a substance use disorder recovery by the applicant's rise of recovery the address for this site would be on the northeast corner of ramsey and fifth street at 303 east third the property right now is currently owned by dennis sullivan and martha sullivan rise up recovery would be purchasing the existing building and then operating their services out of the building as it sits right now so we're looking at here background information and the comprehensive plan this is guided for medium residential this use is consistent with a medium residential use zoning is r2 which is consistent with the surrounding area i'll be at the area directly to the west where guardian angels townhomes is zoned r4 a little bit denser there existing condition of the property we've got about a 14 000 square foot lot and a 300 square foot home the home has six bedrooms in the past it was used as a triplex for the last 10 or so years i believe it's been used as a single family home so their proposal is to use the home and operate their their facility outside of it when you take a look at the neighborhood it's mostly single-family some apartments some two-family home that surround it then guardian angels townhomes directly to the west here we did provide notification here to all properties within 350 feet of the property did get back a number of comments those comments were have been given directly to the planning commissioner planning commission to summarize very generally we received seven comments uh and letters that were supportive of the application for various reasons and then we received uh two uh two comments that were not supportive of the application as it sits so the details of that are within your packet what they're proposing to do is rise up recovery is to provide board and lodging facility for special services for substance use disorder recovery what they would like to do is to operate up to 15 beds for adult men the facility would be staffed 24 7. they state they're a christian organization will ensure historical integrity is upheld and keep the home held to a high community standard that is from the application they turned in so from our standpoint our regulatory aspects of this are a little bit unusual this is not something that's identified directly within our zoning code but within our enabling legislation from state statutes there is a provision that allows for this there is something in state statutes that says that permitted multiple family uses shall allow a state licensed residential facility serving between seven to 16 people to be permitted and a council may opt to have a special use permit as part of that and the special use permit would be to assure proper maintenance and operation of the facility so summarize that state statutes provides that this type of facility can be considered within a single or a multiple family zoning district and that conditions may be placed down there to ensure the proper maintenance and operation the facility when we take a look at special use permits we we take a look at them to set conditions so that we can ensure the operation of the facility is harmonious with the neighborhood and it's something that would be consistent with the residential nature of a neighborhood so with this permit they would be required to obtain a boarding and lodging license with special services from the state of minnesota there's certain regulations and obligations that they would have to maintain that licensure when you take a look at the home again this is a six bedroom home they're proposing to use it for 15 individuals what we're recommending from a staff is that it'd be limited to 10 individuals to be served looking at the standpoint of having five bedrooms for services of of clients that would be two people per bedroom that equals ten the other bedroom would be for the on-site staff there they did mention that this would be something that would be staffed 24 7. look at the looking at the yards and ground at the facility this gives a better idea of what the house looks like right now from the front this view here is from the back there's a bushes shrubbery that surrounds the property six foot fence towards the back of it picket fence that surrounds the property here within the rear of the property they have a small deck this is facing to the north and in the backyard area here i don't show really well here is there is a detached garage located here it's a three stall garage there's room in front of it for another three spaces so really you have parking there for six vehicles when we take a look at our parking requirements we don't have anything specifically for this type of facility our rationale is that they should have one space per room which would be six spaces which is what they have and what they're providing here they would also be required to obtain a rental license from us rental license are for our four facilities that are rented out that's pretty obvious what does it do they have requirements under there for for certain building code obligations fire code electrical mechanical maintenance of the facility to make sure that the property can take the number of individuals that would be proposed and i think that's most of what what i have here is we are recommending approval of the special use permit with a few conditions one maintaining the state license by the board and lodging for board and lodging by the state of minnesota for special services maintaining rental licenses from the city of hastings facility must employ on-site treatment staff seven days a week 24 7. no more than 10 individuals enrolled in qualified treatment programs you'll occupy the dwelling and the usual sunset clause provision on that so at this point this is a public hearing i will note that tiffany newhart from uh from rise up recovery is in the audience if you have any questions for her or i can stand for any questions as well thank you **[1:26:55] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay thanks john we'll go ahead and open up the public hearing again if you wish to speak come on up anyone here raise your hand if you want to come up and speak for okay come on up and then just uh name and uh address if you would thank you **[1:27:14] Diane Steele (Public Speaker):** my name is diane steele i live at 4225th street on the corner of bayley and fifth i never received any notification of that can they if they want i know firsthand about drug and alcohol recovery there's no place in a residential area for them can't they build on to cochran [Music] up there by the vets i vote no my house will be going on the market thank you **[1:28:13] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all right thank you uh the notification was 350 feet correct okay you are okay okay all right uh next anyone else anyone no okay anyone on zoom **[1:28:43] John Hinzman:** yeah we do have uh one person with a raised hand on zoom i could bring that individual into the meeting **[1:28:50] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay and then if we could have their name and address **[1:28:54] John Hinzman:** sure i've got emily meningen coming into the meeting so uh emily when you're in if you can uh state your name your address and then continue with your comments all right emily you are you're set to go you might be muted **[1:29:10] Emily Mellingen (Public Speaker):** can you hear me now yep perfect my name is emily mellingen good try um my address is 309 5th street east so direct neighbor to this property um so i have a lot of questions but i think i want to open up with this on the record i'm a registered nurse and i've spent 10 years serving the underserved population of people in the state of minnesota so i have a unique knowledge of these programs i've worked at cochrane recovery here in hastings i've also worked for meridian residential treatment homes in saint paul white bear lake lake elmo and botaira in oatana and for last nine and a half years i have worked at the department of corrections um for the state of minnesota my current title is rn supervisor so i just wanted to open up with that um you know i truly believe that everyone deserves safe housing and to be treated with dignity and respect but i do have a lot of questions about the operations of rise up recovery that's going to be directly my neighbor so if i could ask those questions i'd be appreciative of that **[1:30:30] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay sure go ahead we'll go ahead and record them here **[1:30:33] Emily Mellingen:** okay perfect so um let's see so um i understand this is gonna be a treatment type housing is this going to be more emergency type housing or long term for the duration of treatment i want to know what the admission requirements are do they accept violent felons sex offenders people with restraining orders against them prison parolees do they do background checks or do they rely on self-reporting of people that want to live there um as far as hours of operation i realize they're going to be 24 7 but i want to kind of know like what their quiet times are that kind of thing are they going to have extra lighting outside um i know in my work in residential treatment facilities a lot of them have trouble sleeping or outside smoking at all hours of the night talking with their roommates um how many cars are going to be there during the day and then also during visiting so we're going to see a lot more cars parked in the area right now if you look down on 5th street east there's not a single car parked in the street at any given time we all park off the street um so you guys had mentioned you like 10 which i think is more um as far as people living there more appropriate um how many staff will be there and this 24 7 staff will they be awake and also um i know that you said treatment staff are going to be there but what credentials are they going to have um you know what will the potential strains be to the existing infrastructure of the home with having that many people living there um the thing that pops into my mind is sewage but i'm not an expert in infrastructure so i'll leave that to you guys um you know are they providing a detox what are their general house rules what is their policy for eloped residents and also my last question is for the council you know what is the city's recourse if this goes badly if there's too many calls for service to the police or ems home disrepair what does uh remediation look like for that um and also and it's unfortunate but you know it's shown that home values don't really decrease with having something like this in the proximity to your home but it also significantly lengthens the time to sell their home because they're gonna look for a unique there's gonna be a unique buyer that's okay with that like i would be okay with that if it's a well-run facility my concern after all those questions are answered my concern is still that rise up recovery received their 501c3 in july of 2021. they're a very new company the president tiffany received her ladc licensed alcohol and drug counselor certification in 2019 in april 2019. so just shy of three years um i feel like that is a very short time to be running your own treatment facility i feel like there that is too soon too much um and yeah i think that after all those questions are answered um i can weigh in on whether or not i would oppose or approve of something like this being my neighbor **[1:34:13] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay thanks emily i got i think i got most of those down here and we're recording it for follow-up and tiffany's here today too so give her an opportunity to run through those as well thank you do we have anybody else i'm not sure if anyone else online that would wish to make any comment if you could use the raised hand symbol we can call you into the meeting and at this time mr chair i i do not see anyone wishing to speak online okay is there anyone here that wishes to speak or speak again follow-up no okay tiffany are you tiffany oh okay hi you can come on up if you want **[1:35:05] Tiffany Newharth (Applicant):** my name is tiffany newharth i live at 3605 redwing boulevard in hastings minnesota um i'm glad that you wrote all those questions down because i might need some prompting but first i want to address the issue of my license and that time frame of i actually was licensed for a period of eight years prior to that from 2004 until 2012 i was a licensed alcohol and drug counselor i worked in various settings including residential treatment outpatient treatment three-quarter way housing and halfway housing my license lapsed for a period of time and that that new three-year period that you see my license is the period that i've had it since since that lapse happened so i have pretty extensive history not only working in treatments but going through multiple treatments myself i'm a person with lived experience in recovery long-term recovery what makes us unique at rise up recovery and this home that we desire to open is that it addresses the gaps in the current recovery system that we have including emily as you said you worked at cochrane house this home would serve as both sort of short-term emergency recovery housing and long-term recovery housing with sort of a mentorship model also so the people who have longer periods of recovery and are living in this home able to mentor some of the people that are coming in the staffing and the requirements that we'll have for staffing is every single staff person will be a certified peer recovery specialist they go through a certification process a training take a test and that's a certification that is updated either annually or every two years there's continuing education that's required for them to maintain that certification they and it's also overseen by myself who is a licensed alcohol and drug counselor what was some of the other questions um **[1:37:05] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** well she had emergency versus long term you answered that the admission requirements criminal background checks and what kind of backgrounds will you or won't you allow **[1:37:17] Tiffany Newharth:** yes great questions so all of our staff have to pass background checks according to minnesota department of human services people coming in we do run criminal records as part of our intake process we will not take people who are registered sex offenders will not be able to be admitted obviously our focus is people with substance use disorders the the nature of the crime some people have you know maybe like a burglary charge as they were stealing you know in their past life we want to give people like that a chance but we're measuring kind of their stability coming in these aren't people who need detox services they need to be medically stabilized because we don't have medical services on staff so we can work with a program called kai shin to to work with ambulatory detox services but that's something that's overseen off site the services we provide it's not um treatment in the in the common sense that you would think emily this is more peer recovery support services and then treat substance use disorder maybe outpatient treatment services either virtually or off-site if that makes sense **[1:38:43] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay um so when you pull criminal history are you pulling charges and convictions or just convictions or charges or both if both and then she had a question about quiet times outside lighting allowing people to smoke outside **[1:38:51] Tiffany Newharth:** yeah so there'll be a designated smoking area there will be a quiet time you know nobody leaving the house after you know we can figure what that is you know 10 pm on weekdays maybe midnight on weekends the the nice thing something that's appealing about this property is the privacy to it you'll see that it's really surrounded by high shrubs and the fence and that's both for privacy for the neighbors but also the confidentiality of of the residents that will live there so i you know i have to be honest with you guys i have been in the recovery field for a number of years i have been through programs that are really crappy at best and that is not what we aim to be we have extraordinarily high standards and expectations for ourselves for our staff and one of the things that we are very prideful about is really working to break the stigma that goes along with substance use disorders and to challenge people often think oh they're just a drug addict right no we want to completely change that perspective of people that i am somebody who is in recovery and who was deemed hopeless and you would never know it now looking at me right that's the hope we want to give that's the expectation we have for people who come through our programs **[1:40:19] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** and then i think or one of our other questions on police service calls which was on my list too as far as a scenario based question very generic but it happens you have two residents they have a disagreement they refuse to disengage nothing's nothing's going to work one of them's going to have to leave it's 2 30 in the morning you have one staff member one person needs to leave what do you do where is that person going to go who's responsible from getting them to point a to point b if you only have one staff member you can't necessarily give them a ride because now you've left the house unattended so how do you handle that when it requires when it goes beyond de-escalation and you have to have the police involved if that happens how do you handle that **[1:42:38] Tiffany Newharth:** yeah that's a great question so if i can propose something i don't know if i'm in the position to do that your recommendation john was 10 people plus one live-in person we would propose that there's room for us to have two live-in employees right so and and that would they would be different than the daytime employees by the way so one of the questions she asked is is it an awake position or a sleep position excuse me um it would be an overnight sleep position to to preferably two live-in house managers so that the house is never left if somebody is dealing with a crisis situation needing to take somebody somewhere else there's still someone that has the house staffed that's ideally what we would prefer **[1:43:30] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay i think those were her main questions i think i got most of them on there and a lot of them were overlaps from mine so i just thought i'd have you answer them at the same time rather than going back and forth but um having your proposed two people on site is different than the original proposal so sure that is something that crossed my mind and i was going to address anyway a little bit later on but we'll go ahead and leave it at that so anyone else that wants to talk in the public hearing that's here no and anyone else on zoom **[1:44:03] John Hinzman:** yeah sure uh emily has raised her hand together **[1:44:06] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay go ahead do you mind if she asks no okay good okay **[1:44:11] Emily Mellingen:** so i have a question this is short term up to 10 days correct **[1:44:17] Tiffany Newharth:** yes so a number of the beds would be reserved for that we're modeling this after a program there's two different programs in the southern state one is doc's recovery house located in rochester and then another one is we re we recover down in mankato and they have a couple of beds a few beds reserved for that short-term emergency or if you think of pre-treatment housing so maybe somebody i'll just share i was talking with some people from dakota county and they said you know our experience tiffany is that so many people get released from jail and these are non-violent offenders they get they're in there for a drug charge they get released and they have no ride and they have nowhere to live so they end up walking around the streets of hastings they end up using again then reoffending right we would be able to be that place where they can come they can stay with us get an assessment and then get transferred to a facility that's going to meet their needs so there's not that gap of service and we don't have this issue of homelessness and reoffense you know so that would be a small number of beds reserved for that and then the other beds would be for the longer term recovery housing and that would be people who've had at least 30 days sober they've been through treatment they're stabilized in their recovery and they want to you know launch and get employment services and and take advantage of the peer recovery support that we offer **[1:45:45] Emily Mellingen:** okay follow follow-up question i i think from from emily here yeah so um with the 10 days i totally understand the way this whole whole business works um how are you ensuring that these people coming for a short term stay at the drop of a hat aren't going to be experiencing withdrawal or detoxify symptoms are they going to be evaluated by a nurse initially or i know led tcs have three days to do a comprehensive review i'm just wondering with you building your business how maintainable that's going to be for you when you're taking these short term 10 day stays that are in transit transition to finding treatment um it really has me concerned about the way this site's going to be managed to be honest **[1:46:42] Tiffany Newharth:** right so there is a screening process right there's there's a screening and intake process that takes place as you know and then an assessment piece takes place after that i will not be the person that's primarily doing assessments i have partnerships with other organizations in the community care crossings for example reflections for example these different well-established treatment programs that will be able to do assessments for all of our people within a day or two of them being on site so if people don't you know pass the initial screening if it's deemed that they've been drinking you know on a daily basis for an extended period of time they're going to be referred to detox and then we can take them after they have medically stabilized so there'll be a screening process first and foremost and then assessors a number of them not just myself doing assessments and then going from there so and again not all 10 beds are going to be reserved for short-term emergency sober housing right i mean if you talk to doc's recovery housing or wee recovery there's maybe two or three in theirs that are kind of within that 10 days kind of turning over so it basis based on need but we don't anticipate more than three to five beds being for that short-term emergency **[1:47:58] Emily Mellingen:** can you define medically stabilized for me so that i understand your business model i'm just trying to understand the business model for the special use permit part can you can you define medically stabilized **[1:48:11] Tiffany Newharth:** yeah so somebody that is not at risk for intoxication or withdrawal somebody who does not need medically monitored withdrawal services so that's going to be primarily for alcohol opiates benzodiazepines those kind of substances that require medical observation for them to withdraw safely **[1:48:40] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** sensor confuses me because i'm we talk about emergency you know like they did it now versus long-term residents and so i'm i'm trying to like emily asked i'm trying to figure out what would the emergency ones be then i mean because emergency tells me that they haven't been through that yet that they really have an urgent need and they haven't been through that whole process and maybe they aren't medically stabilized if they're medically stabilized and they're not necessarily an emergency case i'm trying to figure out kind of what the business model is there **[1:49:14] Tiffany Newharth:** they absolutely can still be an emergency base so maybe they go and they're they go through a detox facility but sometimes there's a you know for i'll give you an example if somebody goes into i've brought in people to um ramsey county detox and they're there for 24 hours maybe 48 hours generally at most and then they have nowhere to go after that that's correct so they're oftentimes not placed from the detox facility into a treatment facility they could come from detox right and they've got their medications that they need to withdraw safely and they're medically monitored but then they can come and we can plug them in to match them with the right treatment facility from that point in time because what we see is people then go back out and they're drinking again or another example is somebody gets kicked out of their sober house let's say even here in hastings and they have nowhere to go maybe they relapse they use methamphetamine once or twice they don't want to give up they want to keep fighting they want to get back up and work towards their recovery they can come here to stabilize and to get connected with the resources and the support services that they need rather than going and sleeping on john's couch and and slipping back into it and not being able to get out you know **[1:50:23] Emily Mellingen:** okay does emily have any further yes she did follow up here okay so um you said medically managed at the facility i don't think you ever answered my question as um if you're going to have any health care personnel at the facility to me it very much feels like there could be it feels like even if you're taking people that went to talks as somebody who has worked in the industry i know even if you're on a 72 hour hold sometimes you're only there for 48 hours and you're well within the window of still having um side effects significant ones medical emergencies um from alcohol withdrawal from opiate withdrawal you know this this peer-led model that you have peer-led um staff support has me really concerned i feel like in my opinion this is not a model i've seen professionally and um while it may be out there i also know that treatment and treatment facilities are a multi-billion dollar industry and to me it feels like almost a disservice to the people that you would serve to not have them appropriately monitored or have a good business model that is really my concern um as a neighbor as a nurse as somebody who knows that absolutely respects what those people are going through um it has me really concerned i'll be honest **[1:51:55] Tiffany Newharth:** okay thanks do you want to go ahead and yeah i do i feel like there's a misunderstanding of um of the type of people that we would be admitting into our short-term emergency or pre-treatment housing so we are not providing medical services on-site and i very much take the ethics seriously and my responsibility as a licensed alcohol and drug counselor to make sure that people are safe and so if somebody is needing a level of care beyond what we can provide that they will not be admitted they will be referred to another program so the types of people that will be admitted into our program are not those that need intensive medical monitoring they will be referred elsewhere **[1:52:43] Emily Mellingen:** so with that medical decision pardon who is making the medical decision that they're safe or not safe i guess is my question who is making that clinical decision medically **[1:52:58] Tiffany Newharth:** so the counselors that are screening them and upon intake which they're qualified and under their ladc to screen for withdrawal and intoxication potential **[1:53:11] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** is she okay i can't i don't have the benefit of seeing if she's talking or not um i think where the we're trying to make the connection is the process that somebody goes through from start to finish so you usually use the example of somebody gets out of you know where the jail's here in hastings somebody goes to jail for something that's related to drugs or substance abuse they get released they walk away from the jail they go over to walmart how did they find you can they just walk over to the could just walk over to your house and say i'd like to be admitted or do they have to have a referral or what if i mean can they are the police bringing them there or are you going to pick them up and then but if there's only one person on staff who's going to pick them up and i'm trying to make the connection on how somebody goes from that point to your residence what services they receive and then from that point on because when i read the up the supplemental questions it had mentioned that you work closely with a facility up at stillwater which is where you'd refer them to and again it goes back to that whole one on staff where there's a lot of stuff that staff members doing they're doing intake they're doing assessments they're they're doing the maintaining they're doing the referral outs they're supposed to be giving rides you know when i kind of get brought up that 2 30 in the morning scenario i mean something goes awry well the police officer can't just stand there and wait for that person to find somewhere to go so what where where we go there i'm trying to figure out the business model because it doesn't seem like you have enough staff for that that particular type of business model in this particular neighborhood at in this particular house this setting i'm just trying to figure out the different you have treatment versus peer counseling but then you have emergency versus non-emergency and medical stabilized but then they just came from jail and they may be within their 72-hour hold window but it could be only 40. you know where we're going with that we're trying to figure out what the model is not we're not i'm totally for having residential i mean people need it it's obvious we got a lot of testimonials here which are very powerful and personal but in order for the special use permit to be granted we need to have a clear clear vision of what the model is and i i think i have more questions than i do answers at this point even after the explanation so i think that's where we're going with that do you want to go ahead and **[1:55:40] Commissioner Matzke:** i guess my are they free to come and go as they please are they they just walk in walk out they're able to hey i'm going to go grab a coke downtown and then come back and do what i need to do it's hard for me i i've had a group home live next door to me and they they had counselors on staff and all it takes is one bad individual to to ruin the entire neighborhood where the person got away and they started breaking into homes taking things causing incidences around their well that gets out now property values drop so we're trying i'm trying to figure out in my mind how this is being monitored by staff so that this isn't going to be an issue where all of a sudden we've got you know a house in the neighborhood where hey you don't want to live in that area that neighborhood because the people that are come and go are they they're for the most part you might have nine residents that are good but you have that one that you just can't control how do we how do you control that one guy how do we deal with that one guy so that this house doesn't get that reputation sure you know and that's that's where i'm at with this trying to decide whether i want to see this and i think that's what i'm hearing from the resident that lives next door you know she doesn't want to see her neighborhood turn into a you don't want to live there and now all of a sudden her property values are in in a bad way yeah so i i i'm all for the treatment i'm all four people need this kind of treatment but i'm also need to consider the rest of the neighborhood also and at the same time yeah so what kind of assurances are we seeing from the this group that this isn't going to be what's going to happen so **[1:57:51] Tiffany Newharth:** yeah i mean i can't that's i think it would be unrealistic for me to say that we're never going to get somebody that may have more struggles than we initially anticipated but i will say that we'll be very diligent when that happens to act immediately and to place them in a a more appropriate setting you know a setting that is going to is going to meet the needs of somebody that has higher needs i mean i'm recognizing that um we are not like a cochrane or we're not like a hazelden a locked facility right we're not and we don't intend to be so understand that when we do our admission process we're looking for certain criteria to make sure that it's going to be a good fit for our program that the staffing and what we can provide we want to set these people up for success and our neighbors also so if there was somebody hypothetically speaking that behaviorally was really acting out and struggling or having significant impulse control issues we would look at an alternative placement and we would bring them there right so and to answer your staffing questions i'm 100 on board with having more than one staff you know at any given time because if you only had one staff member working right and you had an issue where you had to refer them out to a different facility yeah what would you do right no i'm just asking you what would you do i mean what would the staff person what would you do with that person who can no longer stay there who who is not meeting the needs of the program who who's that meeting the expectations they're not abiding by the rules i don't care if it's 2 30 in the morning could be 2 30 in the afternoon on sunday um but what would you do if you had to rep place that person where where what do you do i'm just asking what the process is to get them replaced somewhere else **[1:59:16] Tiffany Newharth:** yeah so we would get releases of information signed and start making phone calls and finding another facility that has an opening and then we would transport them there **[1:59:28] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** but who's doing the transporting though so do you want to come help yeah you sure can i'm just trying to understand the model because you know so we have an office two blocks away and several employees as well outside of the facility okay peer recovery specialist so you think about it the peer recovery model too is there's going to be multiple people that in the home throughout the day but there's also going to be multiple people that need to go job hunting that need to go to different appointments and so we're going to have different workers somebody in the home but other people bringing these other individuals to to meet their needs the goal is to break down the barriers that people experience early on in recovery some of that is transportation some of that is getting health insurance some of that is some basic needs stuff that our goal is to help these people you know get those needs met so so it's not like one person's on site and everything's happening there on site it's like okay you need to go work on getting your driver's license back this one peer recovery specialist is going to work with you for the day they're going to take you to your appointment they're going to take you to the dmv they're going to help you you know whatever you need help with that day does that make sense **[2:00:53] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** who's doing that **[2:00:55] Tiffany Newharth:** certified peer recovery specialists so in addition to the the staff person on site peer recovery but there'll be multiple staff throughout the day **[2:01:03] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** that's all correct so there'll be two staff on site at nine um and then again the next question is they're free to go as they as they please the doors are not locked down at a certain time you're in if you want to go at 10 o'clock at night go someplace you can **[2:01:23] Tiffany Newharth:** no no there'll be a curfew there'll be you're in the house the expectancy is that you're in the house by 11 o'clock 10 11 o'clock on weekdays midnight on weekends the people who are in there for longer term they can maybe do an overnight pass on a weekend you know go to a family's members house but that needs to be approved the people that are there on the short term basis will not be able to just come and go as they please they'll be required if they're leaving the property to leave with a peer recovery specialist or an approved family member or buddy **[2:02:40] Commissioner Halberg:** commissioners oh commissioner Halberg. i have a question the requirements on the dhs licensing is there a staffing ratio number that has to be met and is there also a requirement to have someone that's medically trained in rn lpn of that level to be a part of the staff or contracted out to to emily's point help with those personnel that are coming in those people that are coming in that need more medical treatment and then my other question is i think there's some confusion around emergency with placement emergency doesn't mean that they need medical attention emergency means literally they're out of jail they have nowhere to go so they they're an emergency in a crisis that they need someplace to go to they're sober when they get out of jail they just need somewhere to go so am i correct when i say that about the emergency **[2:03:32] Tiffany Newharth:** yes thank you it's more housing emergency right more residential emergency not medical or substance use related withdrawal emergency that's absolutely accurate yeah i just want to clarify that but do you know the requirements for staffing ratios are there any requirements of staffing no okay no no thank you okay **[2:04:08] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** mr romans **[2:04:10] Commissioner Romans:** first off i just have a few questions kind of related to these but a little bit different as well um first off i want to say um you know thanks for coming out for this i mean it's seems obviously very needed in the community but i have a couple questions on some of the gray areas as far as especially long term on because they're not considered tenants um so i guess to even start on this how how is it funded you know is any who's paying for them to stay there **[2:04:36] Tiffany Newharth:** so either one of two things so we'll pursue uh housing support funding through dakota county um and there's a process to go through that i have a couple of women's recovery homes that we run and one of them is we have a contract with dakota county for housing support funding so that covers their room and board they have certain financial requirements that they need to meet in order to qualify for that the other option is individuals as they work towards self-sufficiency there'll be a self-pay option and rate that they can **[2:05:08] Commissioner Romans:** okay i guess to me then this is where i it's it seems like there is a bit of a gray area as far as tenancy versus patient versus client um so as you stated in your thing you're not you know even long-term people there would not be given the rights of a tenant correct um so i i guess some of the consideration of of people coming and going in this way is also their rights and protections as far as being removed and where they're removed too do you have signed agreements with uh different organizations where you can move somebody if say they do become a problem that you know okay 2 30 at night we need to move them um and that you know we have those agreements in place that assures the community that there is a place for them to go that you know there is not any and i know you're well intentioned on this but that there isn't any chance of more homelessness created from it especially if say you were referred people from hennepin county um you're pulling people from different areas and then either they get removed um and then end up on the streets in hastings which then creates other burdens upon the city and the community so i just want to make sure that there's protections in place signed agreements uh assurances kind of contingencies essentially that um those folks will have places to be for their protection for the community for everybody um you know going through and even just on the idea of it you know unfortunately we have to take in the risk of folding of in case it doesn't work out the funding doesn't happen right and you have 10 people there that need homes tomorrow do you have the ability to move 10 people the next day to find them homes i guess that's where i'm struggling a little bit with this because i'm obviously a big advocate for tenancy rights and wanting people to have that self-sufficiency and i think part of the process obviously seems that they do need that so i guess if you can speak to that **[2:07:16] Tiffany Newharth:** yeah so when we talk about longer term recovery housing i'm talking maybe upwards of one to two years so the goal is for them to move towards what you're describing that independent living we also don't want them to be too too comfortable we want them to move towards more self-sufficiency and so i have relationships there's not really the way the recovery community is there's there's not really a way that you can have a signed agreement like i'm guaranteed a bed in your place that's not really doable but i have relationships with multiple organizations multiple different recovery homes that we can make a phone call and find somebody a bed within minutes i've never had a problem with that to date **[2:08:08] Commissioner Romans:** okay i mean that makes sense on there but i i guess in the words of you know business models and special use permits we like written guaranteed type of things not and not dependent on unfortunately you as being the person to be contact because it might not be you next year it might be somebody else who knows you know you have we have to take in all those considerations of of having those guarantees and having those um you know plans made and approved and looking at it that way and making sure yeah these people do have homes no matter what happens with it um and you know up to two years i guess to me that it is weird that you can live there for up to two years pay money and not be afforded tenant rights **[2:08:48] Tiffany Newharth:** yeah so if i could speak to that so that's an existing business model right business model um in sober housing so very common there's several right in hastings four to six residents are funded with the same housing support type money from funding from the county um and they have this same agreements right so they have the same rights or lack of rights as far as a renter would have they can be kicked out just like that um they frequently are kicked out just like that and and that would be for reasons um disagreements um personality situations um like tiffany mentioned before maybe there was a relapse right there's a zero tolerance policy and you're out those people today in this town are being put out on the street just like that right so that's some of those people have a place to go right some of those people have a nice condo up in town or a nice mom and dad's couch that they can go crash on an emergency for that five or six days until they find another sober house a lot of those people don't have that and maybe home is the worst place they can go and those are the people that we're trying to get off those are the people that are going to be in your garage stealing your tools tomorrow night right so those are the people we're trying to get off this we're trying to solve that problem i guess is what i'm saying **[2:10:04] Commissioner Romans:** yeah and i i mean everything you're saying here seems that way definitely i'm looking at it more as just in the logistical paperwork standard that everything is tied up so there isn't questions for you for the community for anybody moving forward again i'm supportive of the process here and um you know i i have seen some things around a little bit that um legislature looking at consumer protection on sober houses and stuff like that so just making sure though all the ducks are in a row for those types of things that um you are prepared for that and moving forward so yeah and i um i could tell you that we would never just kick somebody out on the street and say good luck find a place that goes completely against every single moral and value that we stand for we will work tirelessly to make sure somebody is placed in a safe environment that's going to better fit their needs because that's a big part of why we exist anyways because we were seeing that exact thing happening and it needs to there needs to be a solution to it yeah i guess i would ask maybe if there's something that could be put into writing as far as the actual processes that would go through that if we need to remove somebody or if there was an incident or i think some of these processes as part of the use permit that no we didn't kick these people out on the street we didn't do that could provide some assurances to the community as well so if you would be willing to look into that i would appreciate that thank you **[2:11:47] Tiffany Newharth:** yeah like a discharge i actually i should have i should have sent it to you i had to come up with i have that close to that already in place when i had applied for one of our women's houses for the housing support funding we had to outline what is our discharge policy what is our procedures with that what do we do if somebody has a recurrence of symptoms in the home how do we handle that you know what is our kind of is it a zero tolerance no strike you're out kind of thing um so i do have something like that for the most part i could tweak it a little bit already set up **[2:12:35] John Hinzman:** yeah it mr chair just a point of clarification here i just want to be able to we have active a public hearing right now so i'm trying to to get get through the public hearing right now and then we can she does have her hand up so if we can uh bring her into the meeting **[2:12:47] Emily Mellingen:** emily go ahead sorry guys um i just have to say as neighbor given the information that i'm given and the business model i'm gonna have to oppose this and i'll leave it at that thank you **[2:13:06] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all right thanks emily is there anyone else on zoom uh nope nobody else no i i don't think either either of them no no okay nobody here we'll go ahead and close the public hearing and open it for official comments and questions from commissioners commissioner tyken **[2:18:24] Commissioner Tykan:** thank you mr uh tiffany thanks for coming in this is a really emotional subject as you have witnessed right congratulations on your sobriety i applaud that and thank you for looking to fill this gap with all that said i'm a very non-emotional person and i just don't want to know the facts and i want to make a decision based on those facts and does this fit in to this particular site um and so i have a few questions for you and then i'll let everybody ask questions and i'll come back and have some comments about it um one of the recommendations is that all the people have to be i want to read it just to make sure i get it right no more than 10 individuals enrolled in qualified treatment programs shall occupy the dwelling i'm hearing those people aren't going to be in a qualified treatment program is that correct **[1:47:11] Tiffany Newharth:** they'll either be enrolled or getting enrolled so they won't be some people may not be enrolled it may take a couple days and i'm not judging i'm just saying if we follow this it sounds like people might be coming out of jail they haven't found a treatment center yet they won't be enrolled right okay that's that's all i want to know **[2:19:33] Commissioner Tykan:** um somebody mentioned limiting staff i don't know where that came from but i can't find it in here is there is there anything in here about limiting staff **[2:19:42] John Hinzman:** no i don't i don't have any issues with uh with the staff that's being proposed here if there's two people there i think i think there's there's nothing in our document saying you can only have one person in there **[2:19:54] Commissioner Tykan:** okay thank you because i i'm more looking at limitations based upon the individuals that would be right be in the house uh will these people have cars **[2:20:07] Tiffany Newharth:** we will limit the number of cars so they can have cars they might not have cars right that's from yeah not the short-term emergency people cannot have vehicles **[2:20:20] Commissioner Tykan:** and then that is my other that's my last question is i'm still trying to wrap my head around how many people are gonna be in the house during the day it sounds like you have some people that are going to be there for a long time and some people are kind of transitory is that right and i mean could people come in during the day more than 10 people and they might leave during the day or i i guess i was just confused about that **[2:20:41] Tiffany Newharth:** so i mean i guess i'm a little bit confused by your question too there will be so if there's 10 residents that reside there there may be two or three that are being taken to appointments by peer recovery specialists but there will be no more than 10 residents enrolled in your program correct okay at any time correct there might be people coming going during the day but it never exceeds the 10. right okay thank you thank you mr chair **[2:21:05] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay commissioner taken commissioners mr peters i think your hand was up good **[2:21:13] Commissioner Peters:** um you know one of the things that you've described and maybe everyone else understands this better than i do but um you're describing that this fills a an area that can't be fulfilled with the current programs available in hastings what is the difference between a sober house and what you're proposing i guess i'm i i just don't know **[2:21:38] Tiffany Newharth:** yeah that's a great question so generally sober houses are just that it's a home a residence where people who are in recovery are sober live and the majority of the time there's no supervision there's no staffing um it's just a place that somebody can pay rent or get grh funding but they live there and and that's it we're proposing a model where it is staffed 24 7 there's oversight and there's peer recovery support so it's supported genuinely supported recovery living so it provides accountability support and helps address those barriers that people experience in early recovery **[2:22:20] Commissioner Peters:** okay so then my follow-up question is um if this is a staffed facility what are the how is this different like what kinds of requirements are there for a sober house do they have any licensing requirements to the city um you know if this is a special use permit do sober houses also have a special use permit and you know what kinds of requirements are you know for those kinds of special use permits **[2:22:52] John Hinzman:** sure question hasn't come up too much but there has sober houses depending on the number of people they serve they might be able to serve as a permitted use with not a special use permit requirement from the city uh we're out we're instituting in the last couple of years rental licensing requirements on sober houses and those type of group home facilities so they would be bound by that as far as special use permits go i'm aware of one other sober house that we did have a special use permit issue that was probably 10 11 years ago elsewhere in the city **[2:23:38] Commissioner Peters:** okay so um this so we currently have sober houses within the city that might have four to six people is that probably the limit on that **[2:23:46] John Hinzman:** yes there would be i think a six is the is that is that figure where if you go above six in a unit then uh we would institute a special use permit review of that and i think i'm correct **[2:23:59] Commissioner Peters:** yeah so then this would be serving a similar client but with staff and support okay thank you **[2:24:10] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay commissioner peters thanks oh okay all right sounds good i didn't know if you were done there are sure there's any other questions give me a follow-up **[2:24:20] Commissioner Tykan:** thank you just some comments around this in general and um i just want to get my questions out of the way first um i honestly it's like we don't have enough information um to me to make a good decision about this i'd like to find out more about those other houses and other communities and you know what is the police raid what do the neighbors think um you know how are those received in that community are they in a residential neighborhood um if we do you know move this forward i think we should remove the in treatment part of uh condition four because it sounds like they're not going to be in compliance with that um and you know so john where are we at with the timing on this do we have more time or no **[2:25:06] John Hinzman:** yeah commissioner we we do have more time under our reviews so if the commission is not comfortable we could table this for two weeks come back if there's some specific direction that you're requesting if you were able to state that so that the applicant and staff would be knowledgeable of that but yeah we we are within our uh our requirements for for table in this episode so we do have some time **[2:25:35] Commissioner Tykan:** um we don't to me a lot of these issues are just the unknown we don't know what's going to happen we don't know what how the impact of the neighborhood's going to be like is it going to be a disruption are we going to generate a lot of police calls do we have any facility to follow up on this in a year you know make this a not a condition or a special use permit that goes in forward indefinitely more of like an annual or to me really what we need is an annual license we need the city to license these types of facilities so if it becomes a problem to the neighborhood that license could get revoked and sure the neighborhood could go back to the way it was **[2:26:12] John Hinzman:** the way that we've we've established the special use permit well back special use permits will carry forward indefinitely provided that the requirements of the special use permit are being adhered to now specific within this one there's the state licensure requirement so if they were in in violation of any of the state licensing requirements that could be uh that would be grounds for termination of the permit from our end also from the rental licensing standpoint same thing so we're establishing those as parameters for if you're if you operate within those two you would you'd be adhering to the special use permit if you didn't that'd be grounds for revocation **[2:27:03] Commissioner Tykan:** is there something in the rental housing license that would say hey you had 50 calls from the police and all the neighbors are complaining we could revoke that license **[2:27:12] John Hinzman:** yeah we do have performance measures in there **[2:27:15] Commissioner Tykan:** okay um to me that would kind of give us a safety net of i it seems like it's a good thing and the community needs it the big question is does it fit in the neighborhood and do we give them a trial or do we you know make them have more more policies and procedures in place that we can see like here's how we're going to run the business here's how we're going to admit people um etc so i would personally i i would wish we'd kind of review this um you know call rochester call it mankato find out what these types of uh facilities have as far as the community response i mean my uh wish cause i just don't feel like i have the data thank you mr chairman **[2:27:56] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** mr dyken commissioner Halberg **[2:28:03] Commissioner Halberg:** first off thank you um my mom worked as administrator cochran for my entire life i grew up around addicts um and i do think that your program does fill a lot of the gaps you know we're sitting here talking about well what if this happens what if this happens you can't control the what ifs no more than you can control if your neighbor has a loud party next door or your neighbor decides to get drunk and break into your garage or a case of domestic abuse so i think there's a lot of preconceived notions going on right now that i think we need to separate i agree with the whole idea about you know the business model seeing what it means to be enrolled what's that look like how long does it take to get someone enrolled into a recovery program and have that you know within two days this person needs to be enrolled in some kind of a a program and i know that there's with the state of minnesota dakota county all the crisis programs there's a lot of different avenues to find placement for people if need be that if they're not adhering to the to the the program that you're trying to run i'm i'm concerned that we're letting some of the the old stereotypes come in discussion i do also question you know the medical clearance of somebody you know can someone that went through a certification program really um decide if someone's medically stable or not so seeing what exactly that admission process looks like from step one to step 50. i think would make a lot of people feel a lot better and defining terminologies like emergency placement emergencies things like that would bring a lot more clarity and confidence to the people on the commission myself included i do think this is a fantastic program that you're looking to run um but i agree with commissioner tekken i think some more of the specifics just kind of laid out for us would be advantageous the whole idea is this you know appropriate for a neighborhood you always run that kind of a risk um you know the traffic in and out we just we talked about a 211 unit apartment complex we don't know what that's going to do with the traffic in that area moving forward it could be smooth as silk it could be a gigantic nightmare and gino's going to hear car crashes from his back window so i think if you can provide to us exactly what step one looks like to step 50 that that would give a lot more credence and really ease some fears of what this might look like in a neighborhood setting i think it's a great idea i agree with no more than 10 people and if you're my when i saw the one staff member i was like whoo you know one staff 24 7 overnight but if you're willing to employ two staff that there is a um a confidence builder and to commissioner cena's point about what happens at two o'clock in the morning what does that process look like who's going to transport that person so just that black and white i think would really be beneficial for us moving forward so but i just want to thank you both for being here um and thank you for what you're attempting to do and to bring to town so thank you **[2:31:54] Tiffany Newharth:** i feel like i should change the languaging from short-term emergency treatment so doc's recovery refers to it as pre-treatment housing they have pre-treatment beds right so these are stabilized and to answer your question about what that model looks like there is a letter provided by doc's recovery house it should be in your and she kind of outlines that what a benefit this is to their entire community landscape so i agree with you that there's honestly very rarely issues in homes like these especially those that are supervised very rarely yeah **[2:32:38] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** i think what he was saying is you know we when you're comparing i've heard the cochrane facility mentioned several times you know if you've been by there it's up on a hill it's not in the middle of a neighborhood right it's it's so what goes on there is happening you know not in the middle of a residential neighborhood where people have owned their houses for 50 years so that's where we're kind of tasked with does this use fit then this area per se we're not actually on the referendum of does the service need to be around we all agree this service needs to be here um it's just that we have to make that determination as does this use fit this particular area given the historical nature of it you know what we've done with other homes the things that we've made the decisions we made in the past and so forth so that's kind of where we are on that as far as what we're looking at and the reason why i was asking about the policies and procedures is because that does affect the use of the property and it does affect when we look at special use permits we look at how it affects the properties around it yeah as well and since it's going to increase traffic you know as if it was a rental it's going to increase traffic and i want to know that's that's kind of what we do so that's kind of where we're looking at it's definitely not a referendum on the treatment part because we all know it's needed but um you know to your point it's it's just more of does what they do with the cochrane on the smaller scale fit and is it appropriate for this particular area and that's what we have to look at so that's kind of what we're looking at um but i do think that um and i'll just let right now i'm going to be supporting a motion to table it so that we can come back and you can take some of our comments hopefully and concerns and come back with some more specifics so that you know because the for the staffing you know facility must employ on-site treatment staff but we just said it wasn't a treatment facility you don't provide treatment you're providing peer counseling but yet it says on-site treatment like he said that's confusing because that's that's not telling us what what it is um and then um as far as the staff goes i just think you need more than one person there at all times i really do especially if we're gonna go all the way up to 10 people sure you know if we were at five maybe one would be great but your the business model that i was trying to get to is you were saying that they would be referred out well if you're 24 7 referrals happened in a 24 7 situation you're going to need additional staff to call in at 2 30 in the morning if and when something would have i know you're the if-1 thing but you have to consider that since it's in the middle of this block of houses versus up at cochran that's the only reason why i'm drilling down into some of those specifics anyway just to clarify my where i was going with those questions **[2:35:46] Tiffany Newharth:** so i have to ask those questions on both sides the tough ones and the not so tough ones just to make sure in my mind but i do want to go ahead and i've been a supporter motion if somebody's going to go ahead and do it as a table just so that we can get some more details as to specifically how things are going to how things are going to look down the road to make sure that it's the right fit for this particular home go ahead that's sure thank you um i kind of wrote down three things and maybe we could if anybody else has any comments about what information we want back but you know i really want us maybe have the city call rochester mankato to find out about those houses it sounds like we need to rework the conditions because they don't really kind of align with what their services are providing and then provide a better understanding for the process of intaking personnel people is that **[2:36:58] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** i would add just in general the as far as the intake the outtake the kind of the general flow of people through i think um just to go on to that is just providing more information for everybody involved is never a bad thing i think it just gives everybody a little bit a little bit of a sigh relief that they know what's going on and can feel just a little bit better so and the commissioner holberg's point you know we got to be comfortable we also have to make the community comfortable with it too and i think providing that information will help everybody just feel more comfortable and make a better decision was there any peter is the job **[2:37:41] Commissioner Peters:** yeah just because i was kind of making a list of if we table it you know what we do and i think you've covered the two of you have covered a lot of them but i also heard definition of terms and using the same kind of language what does short-term long-term or pre-treatment like what terms are we going to use you know for that and then the staffing model both day and night and then just a general operational hours like what does a typical day look like what can the neighborhood expect and that would then include you know quiet hours and things like that and then also um just the client expectations so what agreements the clients who are going to live there what what is that agreement because i think that would help everyone understand you know what are the what are the thresholds then for being allowed to continue being supported or maybe finding a different um situation for someone to to be in but i i think um yeah the definition of terms and the client expectations or agreements were pieces that i hadn't heard in the reminder part but i love that this would be a supported service versus a sober house that's not supported and staffed and i feel like it is worthy to note that there is a facility called bob's place that's about three blocks john is it three blocks away from where this is located i think they have 12 residents in that home and that is a licensed board and lodge facility i don't know the level of staffing that they have at that um but you know so there's something in the residential neighborhood right that's why you brought that up i did not know that yeah see and i think in a lot of our sometimes in our packets when we have a application come in front of us we do there's research attached to it that what's happening in other areas or there's another same model in this particular area we didn't get that in this particular packet we don't really have anything to go on other than here we go but i didn't know that there was another one yeah it closed i would you know that was that's good information so i think that's what we're aiming for is to get all of that information to us in addition to the language on here just so that we can we have some comparison because we have nothing to compare it to but most of the time on our on our applications if there's other similar things in other cities we get you know you know a little bit of a comparison and we just don't have enough information on this one i think to make an informed decision as to how that's going so i i didn't know about the other one so just maybe for future for that one commissioner tyken **[2:40:41] Commissioner Tykan:** yeah thank you mr um so you know if we if we end up tabling this and we hear back from mankato rochester that everybody loves it we hear that there's some places that are similar close by that the city has been happy with i'm gonna vote for it okay i just as the chair uh said i don't have the facts yet that i need to make that decision so i just ask that we table it and so we can get those facts and make a good decision but it sounds like we should be able to get those facts and they all should be positive so thank you **[2:41:18] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** commissioner lebron **[2:41:20] Commissioner Lebrun:** good yeah um along those lines as well uh we've referenced the the state licensing a lot too and then you've also mentioned different organizations the county you've been in discussions with a lot of times just from my experience and other other realms might help the board or the the body here um to maybe if you could excuse me arrange either i don't know a comment from them or somebody to come by you know kind of take us through it a more about this gap um in services that you've referenced as well so all right thank you mr lebron **[2:41:51] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** mr meske go ahead i think the motion will be your mic there sorry that's right go ahead **[2:41:54] Commissioner Matzke:** i make a motion we table the uh the issue in front of us for two weeks then we come back and we revisit rise up **[2:42:04] Commissioner Tykan:** i'll second that **[2:42:05] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay we have a motion to table by commissioner maskey in motion by commissioner tyken do we have any further discussion i just like the reason why we're tabling it we're just we're giving you the opportunity to come back with the additional information for us i'd like to see them more with the bob's place and some other just so that we have something tangible to look at and compare and make an informed decision so that's kind of where we are on that so do i reach out to these different organizations or somebody one well our staff will you'll do research go ahead and we're going to change basically the the motion is going to be to um to redo the recommendations and language okay as far as treatment versus non-treatment and then do some of the i get some research on some of the other facilities that are close by so we have that and i do my homework john can we can we get that done **[2:43:08] John Hinzman:** yeah i may uh look to you for some assistance as well **[2:43:10] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** yeah that'd be perfect if you could work with staff on that that would be much appreciated um any other further discussion if not we'll go ahead and take a vote um all in favor say aye **Commissioners:** aye **[2:43:19] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** opposed okay motion carries thank you for coming tonight thank you we really do appreciate it and i really do want to mention i read the testimonials very powerful very personal a lot of people put some very personal things out there didn't have to i won't go over them here but they're available right as part as part of the public **[2:43:40] John Hinzman:** right we'll we'll put this in the following package just a point of clarification mr chair two so we will be tabling this for two weeks that'll be the planning commission meeting on february 28th **[2:43:53] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** that's correct and in the interim word asking staff i don't like the word direct we're asking staff to work with the applicant to more closely define the recommendations some of the language treatment versus medical versus emergency and then getting some information on bob's place in some other areas and like like red wing or mankato or where i'm not sure where that was so that's what we're asking for all right thank you yeah you bet thank you thanks john thank you very much for coming we appreciate it thank you it was a long night thank you we do appreciate it thank you thank you all right um oh no next up is a public hearing or a public hearing it looks like number six for uh matthew global specialties permit 2022-15 operation of retail service uses auto repair within the i-1 zoning district 2550 millard avenue justin **[2:44:48] Justin:** yeah thank you retail service establishments are permitted uses um by special permit in the industrial park zoning um which would include the proposed retail out-of-body repairs shop uh the applicant is proposing to use the existing site for retail use of auto body repair repair because it would be directed towards retail customers he's also proposing to use it as a training center for auto body technicians the applicant proposes just a minor interior remodeling and the site is 1.2 acres and has two [Music] buildings on the site seven thousand square foot shop building and a five thousand square foot office and shop building combination building and the site was developed in 2001. since the industrial park isn't really designed or intended for retail businesses we allow some uses that are more retail oriented there after reviewing a special use permit to make sure that there's not any special conditions that should be implemented to make sure it works in the in the proposed site some of the things we look at are traffic concerns or parking issues or concerns with design of the site these are the couple pictures of the buildings on the site the zoning code requires in that zoning district anything that's stored outside has to be screened in the past with these special use permits for auto repair in the industrial park we haven't allowed this sale or storage of vehicles or allow the storing of unlicensed or inoperable or damaged vehicles outside oh i thought so as far as the recommendation goes it's for approval with the conditions in the staff report a couple of the conditions that are specific to this use are ones that we've done in the past which is that there's no retail sales of automobiles from the site and that no storage of inoperable or unlicensed or damaged vehicles notice was provided to property owners within 350 feet and we didn't receive any any response from that so staff can answer any questions otherwise there's a public hearing required for this and the applicant is in attendance tonight also **[2:48:01] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay thanks justin okay open the public hearing other than the applicant is there anyone that wishes to speak anyone on zoom nope okay close public hearing commissioners i'll open up to any questions i assume you're thank thank you for hanging in there appreciate it um i just have one quick question number five on the recommendation there should be no outdoor storage of inoperable and licensed or damaged vehicles i'm assuming that excludes the situations where a vehicle is towed there as a result of being in a crash i mean it's got to be temporarily outside if it happens overnight or something that's not covering that right it can be outside for a little bit right right just not stored per se but obviously there's going it's going to be outside you know if somebody has a toad there in the middle of the night kind of thing okay just want to make sure that we're there um it's all a question i had just want to make sure that we weren't is this the old sprinkler irrigation company that's what i thought i didn't know they moved okay always retiring all right cool commissioners you have any questions comments pretty straightforward nope if not i'll entertain a motion commissioner Halberg **[2:49:15] Commissioner Halberg:** i'll make the motion to approve the special use permit auto body repair and training 20 20 22 15 retail service operation at 2550 millard avenue with the recommendations **[2:49:33] Commissioner Lebrun:** and we have commissioner lebron uh second second **[2:49:36] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay any further discussion new discussion if not all in favor say aye **Commissioners:** aye **[2:49:43] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** post that motion carries thank you for hanging in there have a good night yeah this is the recommendation will carry forward to city council through tuesday february 22nd meeting welcome to hastings are you familiar with phil's right your own phils okay this one all right all right have a good night all right we do have another public hearing mr chair this one should be fairly quick city of hastings i i just want to make a comment about that last one real quick that's a classic example we all understand what an auto body place does what their business is like how they get cars loaded my only question was about number five which you asked already i just wanted to point that out that we all understand that we all have the facts already about what they do and that's why it was such a quick public hearing and uh oh absolutely so yeah and the building is already set up for it right i mean it's literally an appropriate area right now i just want to make the clarification the difference between the last one where we spent you know a lot of times absolutely trying to absorb what was going on versus something that we spent a minute on thanks thank you mr chair you bet all right city of hastings ordinance 2022-11 parking for apartments this is a public hearing yep **[2:50:58] John Hinzman:** mr mr chair i'll be brief on this one given the uh the time of the hour here we we do have a public hearing to consider uh amendments to the parking code i i we can go in two directions tonight folks this is scheduled as a public hearing we can we can open that public hearing right now and i would suggest you do that uh if you would like to table action and discussion on this to the 28th meeting i'm i'm more than happy to do that i'll leave that up to you **[2:51:28] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay well we'll open the public hearing anyone on zoom nope nope all right we'll close the public hearing commissioners do we want to table this to the next meeting or do we want to take it up tonight **[2:51:41] Commissioner Lebrun:** i'd move to table it **[2:51:43] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** okay commissioner lebron we have a motion from commissioner lebron to table it for the next meeting yep drive a second **[1:19:35] Commissioner Matzke:** i will second that mr maskey on a second **[2:51:50] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** any further discussion if none all in favor say i **Commissioners:** i **[2:51:54] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** post motion carries that will be tabled to our next meeting on february 20 28th other business other business **[2:52:03] John Hinzman:** well uh we've got a few things for the 28th meeting so we'll bring those back as far as other items at this point i'm not aware of any new business coming for that meeting so i will leave it at that **[2:52:16] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all right are you sure there's any other business if not motion to adjourn **[2:52:20] Commissioner Tykan:** so moved mr tank in **[2:52:23] Commissioner Romans:** second second rusher romans **[2:52:25] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** all in favor say aye **Commissioners:** aye **[2:52:29] Chairperson Melanie Peters:** opposed motion carries we are adjourned