e Alexis Turner Alexis Turner is Alexis Turner in the room Alexis Turner anybody Alexis Turner e e e minut e e e e e e e e e e e e the hour of 6:30 having come and gone I will call to order the common council meeting of Tuesday August 6th 2024 and ask the clerk to please call the role thank you Alder Knox let just there a moment ago syndicate's present aladim brus here brus is present Al Madison here Madison is present Al Martinez Rutherford present Al Martinez ruford is present Al miad Mi is present Al RL present rum is present Al tishler is excused Al R here is present pres Al viver be joining us soon Alia present is present Al bit here Al bit is present Alder Conlin Al Conlin is present Alder Curry here Curry is present Alder Duncan pres Duncan is present Alder ever here Alder ever is President Alder field here Al field is present Alder fig Cole here Co is pres Al goind Rajan Al Rajan is present Al Al is Pres Al Harrington mckenny I'm present and let the record show that my camera will be off because of medical reasons understood thank you Al her mckenny is President Mad May W cor thank you um I want to take a moment uh under opening remarks um first of all just to remind us that we are all here to do the business of the people of Madison and I ask that we try and do that with kindness and Grace and that in particular uh whoever you may be as you speak please ref from using any profanity and be respectful of the other humans in the room I also want to take a moment to welcome our new planning division director Megan Tuttle who is here with us for the first [Applause] time and I want to publicly thank Bill Fring who has been the interim planning division director for these months in the transition time so I I hope hope the council and the community um will take the opportunity to to welcome Megan and to get to know her as she steps into this new role um in here in Madison and at the city so thank you for being here tonight all right um our first order of business is honoring resolutions and tonight we have a special one it's legistar 843919 Alder Curry I am thank you mayor whereas assistant fire chief Chase deadmond started with the Madison fire department on September 9th 1996 and retired on July 5th 2024 after more than 27 years of dedicated service to our community and whereas he began his fire service career in the Wisconsin Air National Guard in 1992 serving 21 years and retiring as a chief Master sergeant and whereas he is a combat veteran with two tours of Duty in support of operation Iraqi freedom and whereas he holds a master's degree in Rehabilitation Psychology from W Madison and is a ifsac fire instructor 2 and Fire officer 4 and whereas he began his MFD career as a firefighter EMT at fire station on 8 on lean road on the B shift and as he was reclassified to firefighter paramedic 1999 and firefighter paramedic 2 in 2006 and whereas he was promoted to fire lieutenant in 2011 and whereas he was promoted to fire division chief of medical Affairs in 2013 and whereas he was promoted to fire assistant chief in 2017 assigned to personnal and then in 2019 was assigned to Medical operations and he was in instrumental in developing and launching the city of medicine's First Community Paramedic program and whereas as assistant chief of medical operations he led the inflamation of the community alternative response Emergency Services cares program as we call it which began service on September 1 20121 a vital resource for Behavioral Health emergencies in our community and whereas under his management and supervision the cares program has been incredibly successful and has expanded to add a second team in July of 2022 and a third team in April of 2024 having responded to well over 5,000 calls for service in just under 3 years since its launch now therefore be it resolved that the mayor and the common Council Express their appreciation for the service and Dedication that assistant fire chief Stedman gave to our community during his 27 years of service to the city of Madison be it further resolved that the mayor and the common Council Express that assistant fire chief Shay Stedman will be missed and wish him the best with his retirement from the city of Madison fire department thank you Alders we'll take that as moved by Alder Curry and second by President figuro Cole we do have one person wishing to speak on this item from the public Mary barari of district 6 hi there I'll make this uh quick um I had the honor of working with Chay for many years and I wanted to say our city employees are awesome they work really hard every day they take on added responsibilities all the time but it is a rare occurr where we import an entirely different job description into someone's job description and say yay isn't this exciting and we did that with Chay he was the um assistant medical Affairs chief for the fire department he had a very big job during the pandemic he was out there trying to get PPE for the fire department and all the rest of us he was working to keep the fire department safe and he did we didn't have any uh serious injuries or deaths during this time and so he was doing some really important stuff and the mayor decided in the middle of all this to say we'd like to start the cares program now please Chay and uh will you help us with that and he did it with great energy he did a brilliant job he did multiple public meetings he did multiple private meetings with counselors and other folks who knew about this um he took our calls all the time he took calls from the common Council which was very very supportive of the entire program and has personally encountered people on the street who have benefited from the program so we've heard lots of good stories back so I couldn't let the opportunity pass to um thank Chay as just an exemplary City employee we couldn't have done it without him thank you so now we'll uh welcome up assistant chief Stedman and the alers to present um the proclamation please or the resolution please and for a brief photo opportunity this oh my God thank you thank you thank you very much I really appreciate it so much wonderful working with we're going to miss you I appreciate it I'm going to miss you I'll be brief because I understand we have a pretty busy evening ahead of us um I just want to say you know I felt incredibly lucky when I got hired in 1996 I've been incredibly proud uh every year since to work for the city of Madison um you know in the fire department we we don't acknowledge individuals very often um just because of the team nature of the work that we do um so I I certainly have to take a moment to say that I did nothing Alone um I I've walked on people's shoulders off often um confided in a lot of people that that I trusted and um you know I've worked with a great team uh the one good thing about retirement is that you can speak frankly about things Without Really repercussions so um you know mayor Saia um it was an honor to work for you and with you you you uh you lead with humility and compassion and this common Council Works its butt off all the time and cares a lot about the citizens in Madison and it's been an honor um to work with all of you so I'm I'm a little overwhelmed by the words that were said to be honest but we're just one big family and and keep up the good work please thank you very much thank you [Applause] Chay it it's been an honor to work with you as well and I I am most of what I would have said has been said already but um I I am really incredibly grateful for the work that sheay did to stand up the Caris program um but also just in the normal course of his duties and um keeping uh the fire department going is something that takes uh a large number of people um and not all of them rise to the level of assistant chief um but I'm very appreciative of the work that Shay did day in and day out um for every one of those 27 years so um thank you and congratulations and enjoy your very well- earned [Applause] retirement all right it's been moved and seconded uh is there any objection to recording an enthusiastic unanimous vote in favor of the honoring resolution seeing no objection we'll record that vote and congratulations and and good luck in the rest of your retirement Shay all right and let the record show that the members of local 311 were in fact here to celebrate [Laughter] um that brings us to disclosures and recusals are there any disclosures or recusals on tonight's agenda Alder field thank you mayor on item 18 I'm a W Madison employee so I wanted to disclose that it will not affect my vote thank you Alder that will be noted are there any additional disclosures or recusals on tonight's agenda seeing none we'll move on then to the presentation of the consent agenda president figer Co thank you mayor a consent agenda is moved with the recommended action listed for each item on the agenda including public hearings EXC one items which have register wishing to speak two items which alers have separated out for discussion or debate purposes this document lists super majority items agenda items with recommendations different from the agenda items for exclusion items introduced on the floor and agenda items with corrections a agenda items that are super majority items the super majority vote items will be recorded as unanimous votes unless a roll call or exclusion is requested let you start um file 84 642 report of the mayor submitting resident committee appointments to the eth ethics board and Police and Fire Commission um presented by the mayor requires 14 14 votes legistar file 8455 supporting the implementation of the City Madison anti- balling policy presented by the common presented by the president of the common Council requires 14 votes leg start item 84340 award awarding public wordss contract 9502 Warner Park Community Recreation Center and amending the 2024 adopted capital budget for Parks divisions and engineer facilities divisions to complete the project to complete the project report for the finance committee um to adopt is and requires 15 votes legar 80 4 360 is a substitute authorizing the issuance and establishing the parameters for the sale of not to exceed 108 million 55,000 General obligation promise promissary notes of the city of Madison Wisconsin and directing the final approval of the terms therefore an amendment to the 2024 water utility capital budget 15 votes required and and finance report for um same for adoption leg you start item 84 378 amending the 2024 adopted operating budget to transfer funds within agency budgets based on projected spending through the second quarter of 2024 appropriated $545,000 from the general fund on assigned balance 32593 from the library on assign balance balance and amend the 2024 capital budget to transfer funds across projects and update update funding sources 15 votes required agenda item agenda items with recommendations different from the agenda legi start file 841 161 public hearing for a new license cons Consolidated management company uh at 1,000 hwood College Drive agent Michael Delise for a class B combination Lial license um report from the from the license committee is to redefer re-refer to the to the Lial license committee for :21 and back to the common Council on September 10 2024 leg you start item 83420 adopting the sustainability Plan update and directing staff to implement the recommendations in the plan report the sustainability medison committee is to recommended action is to adopt by council with the following recommendations sustainable medicon committee recommended adoption of the sustainability plan with the addition of a save routes to school element to goal number 12 as recommended by the transportation committee and changes to actions 6.4 9 .2 9.3 and 17.5 suggested by the staff agenda item 83 6 83 601 is a substitute amending the section 2705 of the Madison General ordinance to refine loan and Property Maintenance Provisions report of the sust S medison committee and and the AL figur recommend recommended action is to adopt the second substitute that was emailed to alers earlier today and it's already in leg in legistar agenda items excluded because of request of Elders or speakers registered by noon on August 6 agenda legis number 84 443 authorizing the scheduling of of a referendum relating to the exceeding the municipal property tax limit in the Madison um there are speakers registered agenda item 69 or 84 legister file 84 572 the chief of police second quarter report there's registers um their speaker registers and then we have an item introduced from the floor 8473 and he said by Title by title only amending section 12.80 of the Madison General ordinance to clarify and increase the use of flashing lights by school bosses and I'll um mayor I'm sorry I just realized that I didn't have the dates for return on that one but I will try to figure that out so let me see that in the EM mail that we received real quick oh I I found it so it is refer to the transportation committee on September 4 and back to Council on I saw here somewhere um September 10 thank you all right thank you uh president figuro Cole are there additional items that alers would like to have excluded from the Cent agenda at this time seeing none then let me just go through that one more time um items 25 and 28 are super majority items requiring 14 votes items 61 63 and 67 require 15 votes item 13 the recommendation is to re-refer to the alrc on 821 and back to Council on 910 item 82 the recommendation is to adopt with recommendations as detailed item 83 the recommendation is to adopt the second substitute we'll be excluding items 68 and 69 and we're introducing legistar 8473 and referring that to Transportation on 94 back to Council on 910 good good all right then on the consent agenda president figure o co move to adopt is there a second moved and seconded to adopt the uh consent agenda is there any objection to recording a unanimous vote in favor seeing no objection the consent agenda and all items on it are adopted all right so that will take us then to public comment um president figure call um mayor is it possible to if okay with the body to take comments for item 69 first since [Music] um MPD is kind of busy on their activities today and want to make sure that they're not here waiting yes uh is there any objection to taking public comment on item 69 first seeing no objection we'll do that thank you president figure Ole um so then on item 69 we have one registrant so item 69 is the chief of police second quarter report uh we have one registrant wishing to speak Shandra aerous of District 19 do we have Shandra hello yes can you hear me okay um yeah I I was just I'm just I'm not a a member of the police department or anything but when I read the report there was one section that I had some concerns about and whether or not it's too late to change this um I just I thought it was really important to look at it um so when reading it I found that there was under the section for um reporting procedures and Reporting abuse there's a section that says it actually really caught my attention okay it says um it it's useful reports uh must be or I'm sorry reports must be useful to persons other than the writer and should be a word picture about what occurred and the reason that concerned me after reading the entire part of it and I think that it's absolutely great that we're doing stand standardized reporting that's wonderful however if there's like some very vague information above that on content and if we're going to be going down that road maybe there's a more detailed uh description but a word picture to me is actually like a piece of art made out of words I'm not trying to make anybody feel bad by saying that but like I don't want a novel and I don't want a word picture I want clear concise complete and correct documentation from police officers in their reports personally um I would like non-biased language objective language concrete language non-judgmental language but I don't want you know a word picture so that was the one part that I wanted to address because that can change like what is it changes everything for one person if that report goes to someone else and they're using subjective language and they're trying to create this description of what happened and it's just they perspective that was all I had to say about it thank you thank you are there any questions for the registrant seeing none then we will go to item 68 which is authorizing the scheduling of a referendum relating to exceeding the M Municipal property tax limits in the city of Madison uh first registrant is uh Nicholas I'm sorry [Music] Nick pich uh of District 12 to be followed by Adam Nelson to be followed by Greg patm me Nick thank you everyone as chair of the Madison Arts commission I could spend time to address the utter gut punch of reading about a potential future with even less dollar supporting our local Arts and Cultural sector if our granting program goes away but as the first Speaker of the evening hooray for registering this past Friday at 3:21 in the afternoon um I instead uh plan to address you the common Council as the elected individuals representing everyone in the city but more importantly as human beings I personally have no question that the referendum um the referendum question will be added to November's ballot in two weeks um I have no idea what anyone else plans to comment this evening but in this moment I want you to ground yourself in a few things navigating change let alone disagreement conflict is so difficult um I know that I'm not saying anything really unique or special or new but I want you to remember these facts as you navigate tonight's uh tonight as well as in the coming months um you met um as a committee of the whole to discuss what your body's values were and how we as a community with you as our elected officials wanted to move forward understanding this um structural deficit months and months ago earlier than any time the budget has ever been discussed for my understanding um you as the body provided guidance to the mayor's office and staff about your shared values with a guiding resolution um in which um helped guide the decision making process of asking for agency um proposed agency requests with a 5% cut as well as what the future could look like understanding a referendum might be on the ballet um you all are extremely intelligent and um there's a draft plan to address the structural deficit in the near- term given all the state level politics outside of your control outside of your Direct Control you all care about Madison and the people who call it home um you have all worked together for the last year and even when you've had your disagreements you can have strength in knowing and each other as colleagues and some maybe as friends and you can also find strength in yourself as individuals who were voted to lead in this moment I don't envy you one bit but know but I want you to know that there are people who understand the predicament that you are attempting to navigate our community through and who are supportive of the difficult decisions you'll have to make in the near future you're all helping shape the kind of community we all call home thank you thank you our next registrant is Adam Nelson of District 5 to be followed by Greg patm to be followed by James ganther Adam do we have Adam online uh hi there joining virtually and I'm so sorry uh oh I think you might have muted yourself again are you there Adam we show you is unmuted on our end is it a microphone [Music] issue all right um Adam we're going to come back to you so then next up is Greg patm of district 7 to be followed by James ganther to be followed by Daniel rols Greg do we have Greg on Zoom mayor I'm not seeing Greg okay so then we'll go to James ganther of District 20 to be followed by Daniel rols to be followed by Noah liberman James hello yes go ahead okay yes um thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak I want to express my opposition to the proposed referendum I think the city of Madison already spends way too much in money uh just last year there was a $23 million increase of the operating budget I have seen no attempt whatsoever serious attempt to accommodate um to reduce the budget whatsoever and to look into any area where there might be fat or unnecessary administrative load um I took a look through the budget before uh calling in today and frankly I I see a lot of excessive spending starting with the mayor's office there are five Deputy Mayors and two sustainability Co coordinators uh in the mayor's office that seems an awful lot of highlevel bureaucracy that really doesn't provide a lot of value to the city of Madison um I just think that that's an area where we can cut staff and reduce administrative loot for one thing uh secondly I see a lot of construction going around M right now a lot of it's related to the bus rapid transit system uh this is costing the city of Madison an awful lot of money and it's causing an awful lot of traffic disruption and it's just completely unnecessary so I respectfully ask the city to stop further spending on this it just simply not needed in Madison the north south brt line should be cancelled and it's um you know no more spending should be made on the brt it it's just simply a gigantic waste of money for Madison taxpayers um I would also like to uh point out that uh City staff have received a 6% pay raise in 2024 that is much higher than many other employees workers within the Madison Community uh state workers and W workers have received a 2% pay raise this year uh city of Madison has received 6% so you're asking people that have received a far lower pay raise to to finance higher pay raises for city employees that is just fundamentally wrong and unfair to U other workers in the city of Madison U another Point Madison rents are already Skyhigh we're going to increase them even more by forcing increasing the amount of property taxes that landlords have to pay to the city of Madison this is going to be reflected in renters rent um you know it's just going to keep skyrocketing rent increases Peak going higher and higher and higher and the city is going to exacerbate them if it pass is this referendum okay you're saying you don't have a lot of money from the state well you received $3.1 million increase and shared Revenue in 2024 you're getting more money now yet you complain it's not enough you have about 30 seconds I understand you'd like more revenue from the state but uh nonetheless you are getting more money if you're not getting less shared revenue from the state of Wisconsin that you asking for more money from property taxpayers um I frankly I just see a lot of um wasted spending by the city of Madison uh streets department is making uh you know making a lot more traffic congesting through all the construction that's going on right now um you're making um seems like a lot of that's totally unnecessary that thank you that's traffic congestion let's um go back and see if we can get Adam Nelson um to unmute successfully uh yeah thank you can you hear me now yes we can okay uh yes thank you I'm in a hotel and the internet is terrible here um okay um so I uh just wanted to say you know my name is Adam I'm a resident here in Madison um and just start by saying you know as sensitive as this topic is for the community uh thank you for doing everything possible Council for providing visibility into this problem uh that you're hoping that referendum will solve for hosting this forum to discuss it um I think you know the main thing that I just want to convey um is that I think we're pretty clear on what happens if the referendum doesn't pass um one thing that I I um kind of want to piggyback on from the last speaker is that um there are some downsides if uh the ref referendum ends up passing that just want to make sure people voters are aware of and um you know that is like we have to zoom out and realize that this isn't the only property tax increase being proposed on the November ballot um talking about the 600 million um that the school board's also asking for um and you know what happens if they all pass um and I think it's important that folks are just aware that um you know again what the last speaker said that uh there will be impact to renters there's a um uh Isabelle Cohen is a uh economics professor here at the University of Washington I say here because I'm traveling for work in Seattle right now uh um she's tracked data on this for some time um there's multiple studies on this and the estimate is that roughly 60% of increases to property taxes are passed on to renters so it's not just a homeowner um impact um so I that's purely Just for information just FYI for folks that are thinking of voting on this um that property taxes are baked into your rent um and then obviously there's impact to the homeowners you know we're looking at I think over $100 a month uh potential increases if the all of these referendums pass by the time we get to 2026 um and then I noticed in the PowerPoint presentation that was presented there's also special charges even if the referendum passes um that start at 5 million in 2025 and that looks like they double every year after um and so there's incremental costs there and then I noticed that also and this doesn't have anything to do with the referendum but there's also um a 2026 uh local local sales tax that looks like it's a part of the plan as well um so we're just it looks like you know in conclusion if the referendums pass um we want to look at things holistically about 30 seconds thank you residents in Madison are are likely looking at a higher cost of living across the board um whether you're a renter or an owner um you know some of us that are in the higher income brackets might not be as big of a deal if you're in the middle or lower income brackets you know if your house burdened uh this this could be a little bit harder a pill to swallow you might have to get an additional income stream um cut costs elsewhere so I just want to make sure that folks are looking at that's your time thank you right our next registrant is Daniel rols of district 15 representing mipsy to be followed by Noah liberman to be followed by Kate Pinkston Dan thank you mayor thank you council members uh my name is Dan rals Daniels only when I'm in trouble uh I'm the president of mypy and we represent White Collar employees and mid mid managers in the city this is about what kind of community we're going to be will we continue to have the same high quality high level of services we've all enjoyed for as long as we can remember or will we start to slide reduced Library hours large item pickup Public Safety Park maintenance facility maintenance and staff layoffs I represent folks who have already been notified that should this fail their job will be cut these are decent family supporting jobs with decent benefits and they will be cut if this referendum fails additionally ma layoffs are magnified tfold when services are cut and impact of those service Cuts will be felt by those who can least manage it there are some who said the city is just a big spender I call Bunk we have grown by Leaps and Bounds in the last decade and we continue to do that and yet on a per capita basis our staffing levels are lower than they've been in over a decade we add 2500 people every single year and more this means more trash to pick up roads to plow parks to maintain libraries fire stations stor Waters all of those facilities to maintain programs to manage to administer for things like home buy uh first-time home buying programs affordable housing sustainability homeless Housing Services and on and on we're in a tough spot it's the folks who set up this system intended but a referendum is the way that minimizes the suffering of those with the least we all know the cuts some positions Staffing and services will most certainly hit those who can least afford it the path forward is challenging I don't doubt that but we can do it if we work together as residents of this community and staff that provide the services upon which so many folks rely we're counting on you to support a referendum to help close the budget Gap protect jobs and ensure the most vulnerable Among Us are left out in the cold one last note I would say is there was a comment made earlier about uh wage increases to city employees I would just like to note that those wage increases were to achieve pay parity after years of not being paid the same as as Public Safety employees those p uh those wage increases were long overdue folks who have been around know this but I want to make sure that the public knows this that Public Safety employees bargain their wages collectively and fairly under the laws that are out there thank you City General Municipal Employees were behind in wages for years until this year when we finally caught up so I would ask you to bear that in mind as well I don't envy your challenges but I hope you'll support the referendum moving forward thank you thank you our next registrant is Noah liberman of district 14 to be followed by Kate Pinkston to be followed by Christina Powell Noah thank you I have heard a lot in oped columns next door posts and here tonight about the cost of passing this referendum uh especially for low-income renters but what I'm afraid these folks and many others in our city fail to see is the cost we are all going to pay if we fail to pass it uh unlike a property tax increase where those with more wealth would pay their fair share to keep our city running the cost of failure uh in passing this referendum is a cruel regressive tax on the least fortunate Among Us it is a price we are unfairly foisting upon those who rely on city services in their day-to-day lives it is a price paid by everyone who uses a city bus park or library and it's a price paid by the scores of city employees our friends family and neighbors who will have their roles unceremoniously terminated after years of thankless service to Madison as chair of the landlord tenant issues committee I have seen firsthand the tireless dedication of the city's building inspection staff the work they do to ensure T the work they do ensures tenants in Madison have access to Quality housing giving renters and their landlords the legal Avenues needed to fix problems with their units in a timely fair and civil manner in today's housing market it is essential that these Services be available to renters regardless of their income and the proposed cuts to this department would Rob us of that every cut we make comes with a cost and this one would undoubtedly be borne by the most vulnerable Among Us and while I do believe the work of building inspection is incredible I'm only singling them out because of my personal experience every cut that is being proposed if we don't pass this referendum would be devastating to someone folks who work outside the typical 9 to5 in retail Food Service and Health care who need our evening and weekend bus service to get to their jobs parents doing all they can for their children who rely on programming at our phenomenal libraries or gorgeous Parks or the Goodman Pool to help give those kids the joy-filled life they deserve the car's team youth Outreach snowplows Traffic Safety these are not just line items on a budget or dollars on your tax bill they are lives touched and lives saved by our public servants I'd like to end my time up here by asking everyone to look at this from a broader angle no one in this room wanted us to have to go to referendum we were forced into this difficult decision by years of petty political gamesmanship and withheld funds from the Republican legislature but failing to authorize this referendum will only give in to everything Robin Voss Scott Walker and their ilk in the GOP wanted when they put us in this position they seek a world without empathy when were we failed to come together to protect the less fortunate one were we allow fear and self-interest to Cloud out the better angels of our nature that push us to extend our hand to those in need and strive together together for a better future our local government and all the services employees that comprise it is how we achieve that better future I beseech you do not Sher from that responsibility do not betray our ideals do not endanger the very heart of Madison pass this referendum that's your time our next registrant is Kate Pinkston of District 17 representing the sanberg area neighborhood association to be followed by Christina Powell to be followed by ceski Kate thank you mayor rhods Conway and common Council again my name is Kate Pinkston I represent the sanberg area neighborhood association located in District 17 I'm here tonight to Advocate that the Imagination Center project cited at ryall Park which has been in the work since 2012 move forward whether or not the November 5th referendum passes I am asking that the Madison Public Library in the city of Madison collaborate to ensure that an operating budget for the future library is included in the city's budget even if it has an impact on existing libraries hours and services residents in the sanberg neighborhood pay property taxes at the same rate as residents in all other Madison neighborhoods many of these neighborhoods include libraries community centers outdoor Gathering spaces and pools our neighborhood lacks all of these amenities the Sandberg Community is located near a declining Mall which once served as a draw for residents and visitors we are anticipating the construction and operation of a shelter for men experiencing homelessness to replace the current shelter also located near our community the ryall park encampment brought an explosion of unhoused people to our neighborhood in the summer and fall of 2021 the city neglected toip equip the sanberg neighborhood with resources to deal with the addition of unhoused residents in and near the Sandberg area the impacts the above realities have had and will continue to have on our community are significant the city has a responsibility to offset these challenges with services and resources to support enrich and Empower Sandberg area residents Madison Public Library's mission is this Madison Public Library Sparks literacy Fosters curiosity and supports Community we provide Equitable access to experiences ideas and resources necessary to thrive Sandberg area residents have not had Equitable access to necessary resources and amenities for decades while the city's financial situation is daunting it is unacceptable to continue to neglect our residents we pay taxes too despite not having Gathering spaces to meet outside the school year and no easy access to programming for children or adults while businesses and residents in our area face economic hardships the city has failed to equip us with resources to mitigate the challenges posed by concentrating unhoused residents in and near our neighborhood about 30 seconds left our neighborhood's hardships greatly outweigh the opportunities and amenities available to us this is not equity and the City of Madison has a responsibility to do what it can to remedy this imbalance thank you thank you our next registrant is Christina Powell of Middleton representing asme local 6000 to be followed by Michael celeski to be followed by Robert fetl Christina hello uh my name is Christine Powell and I'm here tonight as an abme 6000 group member and not as an official Department speaker I just need to get that out there I'm streets operations clerk for the west side of town but not our public info officer my opinions are just that my own I've been attending common Council meetings on the 2025 budget as often as I can I think this is my fourth I've also attended three of the budget education talks hosted at schools I've been reading listening and tonight I'm speaking about the budget I believe that this proposed referendum is the best way to make sure that the city remains a great place to work as well as live Madison currently has two special charges that help fund the streets division where I work the urban forestry special charge which started as a temporary thing back 10 years ago and the resource recovery charge which started in 2022 uh I'm the person who answers those questions when someone calls and wants to know what that means they can be tough conversations the hotline gets calls from confused people wondering why they're paying for extra bits on their water bill they want to know why they have this forestry charge when they might not have any terries they want to know why they have a Rec recycling charge suddenly when we always used to take that funding from property tax they say can I just not recycle and Skip paying that's not an option regressive fees hit elderly adults with tiny Bungalows the exact same dollar amount as the $1.3 million homes on Lake Mota the difference is how $11.7 hits modest or fixed income budgets property tax increases are fix to the value of the home even with cuts and services there's likely going to be more regressive charges per the mayor's alternative plan if the Madison does not vote for increasing in funding we will have to cut services and services Have Faces job Cuts mean more work for existing people slower response times it means existing employees are more stressed and turnover will be higher training time is the least efficient way to have an employee they can't give you the answer right away they need to call you back after checking with people they make natural mistakes new snowplow drivers hit a lot more mailboxes I also take those calls Madison residents have high expectations I hear every single week from people who slept in late but want us to come back to their street to get their garbage cart they want summer yard waist curbside collection they want extra brush rounds every time there's a storm they want every single Street plowed when we get an inch of snow yesterday the budget numbers for various departments were uploaded and I haven't had a chance to read through them all yet the no referendum budget version will have all sorts of service reductions to meet the request of cutting down to existing incomes I hope that people understands when you have a cut a service it may be attached to Dedicated employees those who keep their jobs will be stressed and they will try to cover more work response times will be slower and the grace to do things like getting your forgotten trash will not necessarily be an option if anyone has any questions I'm happy to take them but otherwise I'm just asking people to please vote yes thank you our next registrant is Michael ceski of Fort ainson representing Luna 236 to be followed by Robert betterplace to be followed by Julia Matthews Michael my name is Michael seleski I am the elected vice president of Luna 236 representing operators in streets engineering Fleet Services and Library Services I'm here tonight not speaking in an official capacity for any Department my thoughts are my own Luna 236 operators are responsible for collecting our Solid Waste sweeping our streets maintaining our roads collecting the leaves that fall filling sandbags during flood events and maintaining almost every vehicle in our City's Fleet including police and fire this is by no means an exhaustive list our dedicated operators are called at all hours of the night on any day of the week to clear the streets during snow and ice emergencies clearing the paths for fire police and ambulances services to save lives and for the citizens to get around safely we have done this for almost 100 years and we stand ready to continue those services to evolve into many other facets in the years to come as a department funded primarily through the general fund Cuts would hit us hard it sends a message to our operators that our labor and our continued sacrifices are not appreciated the proposed cuts to funding will only serve to increase loads on operators these operators have been tasked to provide the same high standards of service while populations and mileage demands continue to expand our workloads and our responsibilities increase while our renumeration Falls further and further behind our peers in the private sector the consequences of Act 10 continue to have a bitter Harvest as our operators have uh have experienced a net negative wage growth against a cost of living increase felt by all of us as a result we're 10 years ago our operators could afford to live in the city that they serve many of us today are forced to live further and further away this puts a strain on our Department's ability to respond quickly to storms this has led to an increase in turnover in our departments placing us in a constant training footing and depriving our citizens of the institutional memory and experience of those operators who leave our departments proposed budget cuts to the streets department may require cuts at our operator level but that will not stop snow and ice from forcing the remaining operators to cover those cuts with increased shift demands during our busy winter months every overtime plow shift takes our operators from their friends and their family and puts them on the front lines clearing the roads The increased demand for their time will lead to more staff burnout and inevitably will continue the spiral that leads to people choosing to continue their careers in the private sector about 30 seconds thank you I stand in support of the proposed referendum as I stand in solidarity with all of our city departments as an operator I can testify that what we do is public service and it is that sense of public service that helps our operators out of bed every day to do The Unsung but necessary work of the of Madison thank you for your time thank you our next registrant is Robert fatlace of District 3 to be followed by Julia Matthews to be followed by Justin Hamill do we have Robert [Music] hello my name is Robert I am an arborist with the city of Madison in the Forestry Department I'm speaking mostly about the special charge cuz uh that's well it relates to me the Forestry Department is almost entirely funded on uh the urban forestry special charge so but I am in favor of the referendum I'm speaking just as a resident of Madison not as a city employee I a member of local 6000 but yeah every opinion I'm expressing is just as a private resident um I'm a resident of Madison uh also a renter um I like how a lot of the people speaking against the referendum all of a sudden are really concerned about renters um we are very well aware of uh the cost that the landlords push on to us you know um uh with um yeah that we forestry got funded on the special charge about a decade ago with the emerald ashor crisis um and it's I mean as an as a forestry employee it's awesome you know like we don't have to deal with as much of the headache uh budget cuts and stuff but those flat fees are not great for Citizens because they affect the most vulnerable people the most you know it's everyone pays the same no matter whether you have a you know million dollar house or if you're a renter or in a a small little starter house um so it's I mean it's an equity issue you know if we if we leave it as a these flat fees the special charges we use them because they're convenient you know it's easier to to put those on there than it is to raise taxes um but if we continue to rely on these it's going to have a even more of a negative effect on the most vulnerable people in our population yeah I mean it's I know people keep saying how the cost is going to get it gets passed down to renters like through property taxes but like I said that that happens no matter what like you know you have about 30 seconds our rent's going to go up if the costs go up no matter what but we're going to we're going to it's going to be more Equitable if we put these costs back on the property taxes where they should have been in the first place that way people pay you know we share the burden more equitably across the city um yeah and that's about it thank you thank you our next registrant is Julia Matthews to be followed by jus Hamill to be followed by Rick Marx Julia hi can you hear me yes hi um I am calling in tonight to um Express support for the referendum um there are hours of I mean you all know this but right there are hours of recorded meetings and presentations that itemize every way the city has worked to Stave off this moment for basically the last decade there's been so much more Outreach this year and the process was started months earlier than usual all of that with City staff putting in more time while their jobs are at risk if there's no referendum I want to express appreciation to staff and to all Council for taking on this burden the justification of Need for this referendum is clear and the evidence is available for anyone to see I was able to look through the proposed Cuts yesterday and they are staggering um I would strongly encourage anyone who is you know thinking about looking through the entire budget to see where Cuts could be made to look at some of these items um in addition to that because it really lays out the severity of the situation um I also appreciate that the city has kind of shed some extra light and more details onto the extent to which the state is really putting us in this situation and they have been for years um and so I would also encourage people to look into ways if you have influence to you know look at how we can get the state to change what they're doing because because that is really the long-term solution to this issue um which I think has also been backed up by the data and the evidence available um so I just want to reiterate please we need this referendum I know that the thought of raising property taxes is really scary I am a brand new home owner and you know it's already pretty pretty rough out there but the amount per household is really low for the amount of services that we'll be able to have um and I also hope that as we get to that point Council looks at making Cuts equitably if we need to get to that point and looking truly at the impact of those cuts on neighborhoods like sanberg and other neighborhoods that are not close to other services um and with that I uh give back my time thank you so much thank you our next registrant is Justin Hamill of district 18 to be followed by Rick Marx to be followed by Susan marar Justin thank you uh my name is Justin Hamill I'm a city of Madison Water Utility employee uh ask me 6,000 member I'm not a department speaker and these words are my own I do not speak for my department I'm sure as you all are aware the staff shortage across many areas but I'm not sure if you're aware of the large quantities of vacancies in the city departments this includes streets engineering water and more as a city of Madison employee I have felt the burden of short staffing but also seen the mass Exodus of employees heading to the private sector because of large discrepancies in pay these are not just new employees some of these employees leaving our seasoned long-term employees who are virtu vital in training and providing guidance to those who are new what was once a Cutthroat hard to get in a department now is struggling to find anyone to come work and the people who are hired are looking at elsewhere and moving quickly the turnover is high those trained employees are leaving and going elsewhere for better pay better benefits we no longer seem to be able to compete with the Private Industry a great example is the city of Madison is growing at a very rapid rate the water utility department has installed over a 100 miles of water M since 2014 and with this increase of territory our staff has not grown to the same capacity we are shuffling people from positions in operations to another open position in Billing and so on to fix one short staffed area but making another elsewhere when when in reality all of these areas should be able to hire full fulfill these positions I am sure those those here employed at the streets and engineering department can attest that they feel the same shortage of employees coverage I'm sure most people in this room are remember the polar vet vortex in 2014 it was bitter cold and the water department fielded at over 300 water main braks and Frozen Sur lines it was excessive in extreme circumstances at that point the water department was considered fully staffed and people were still without running water for well over 24 hours consider if we had an emergency situation now the the department is covering more territory has less experienced Crews and we are still looking to fill employees vacancies this would mean water would be off for longer response times would be slower those working would be in longer shifts which is a huge risk for exhaustion and more more room for error it's dangerous on all counts those that are working will be in overtime and in the in that instant would his salary savings really be worth it about 30 seconds I hope you I hope that you all consider the need for competitive pay in the city to continue provide this type of service that the city of Madison has grown to expect with that being said I hope you vote Yes for the referendum thank you thank you our next registrant is Rick Mars of Oregon Wisconsin to be representing the city of Madison employees Association to be followed by Susan marar to be followed by Michael aen Rick hello everybody um I met most of you folks already but for those that you haven't um my name is Rick marks and I am a retired City employee who worked here starting in the late 80s and uh just a couple of years ago uh finished my career here with the city as an employee I now am taking over greater responsibilities for the folks that uh work for the city of Madison in asme and uh Neil rainford as most of you may be aware or not that he is retiring and uh Neil's been a permanent fixture and an advocate for labor in this city and the county and in the schools here in Madison and DNE County for all of his career and I will sorely miss him thank you um I again I just want to say that I was elected the founding president of local 6000 back when the Wisconsin Uprising was occurring and act 10 legislation was going on I and many other people here in this room had to develop an entire new strategy called meet and confer and a new handbook based on that those contracts that we had in the past and in the final five years I was elected as vice president of miy and worked underneath Dan rals here tonight and I'm proud to have helped create a current labor Coalition that you see here before you tonight um going forward I hope to be here whenever there's something before the council that impacts the employees of your organization and you can expect a passionate and authentic advocate for these people I am one of you this is what I did for my entire life is work here for the city of Madison um my constant objective will be simple fairness and parity for the wages benefits and working conditions of the city of Madison employees that's it to that end tonight we're talking about supporting that and local 6000 of course is going to support a budget that includes enough Revenue to be able to follow through on all those values that we fought for the last decade and a half to point to the state legislature trying to force us to make changes in our values in this city that we refuse to do and local 6,000 in favor of any referendum that the Alders believe is enough but no more than necessary to ensure continued employment of family sustaining homeown owning property tax paying Fair equal sustainable wages and benefits we support the current language that's in the uh referendum that affirms this commitment and Endor strongly endorse its inclusion in drafting of this document I want to say too that most of the past decade funding gaps have needed to be filled and they have been filled in many cases for those people who lost their rights a decade and a half ago and I appreciate that the common council is attempting to do everything they can in collaboration with us to make sure that those people are kept in parity the way we always have expected to be thank you thank you that's your time our next registrant is Susan marar of District 5 to be followed by Michael aen to be followed by Emily putam buer Susan thank you uh I am uh currently co-chairing the sustainable Madison committee and I want to say am a very proud uh resident of the city proud of the city's City staff's important work implementing Cutting Edge sustainability plans like me these members of the city staff including our mayor know that when it comes to addressing the climate crisis we have no time to waste and for that reason I ask you to approve the referendum resolution for the because to balance the up coming budget without a referendum as you will know the city will need to make significant Cuts resulting as I understand it in roughly 60 layoffs plus ongoing serious budget stresses in subsequent years I'm concerned that with no referendum many of these layoffs would occur in departments that are key to implementing the city's sustainability work work that only recently has ramped up significantly so by contrast with a referendum the city will be able to continue this important work addressing the climate crisis and this work is extremely important because and you probably have heard your parents or grandparents say this an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure without a referendum the city will end up having to cut staff who are working to reduce the threat of climate change and so their work to prevent increasingly devastating climate change events may very well stop and the resulting cost of that stopping will be very high for all of our city residents but especially for low and middle income residents the cost will be high because the increasingly devastating climate events that are likely to occur will include lack of tree canopy in lower income neighborhoods which brings on heat Islands more flooding more heat waves and so forth these res they these lower income residents and all other City residents will have to pay for these losses out of their own incomes so I want to just end my comments here by saying that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and when it comes to the climate crisis and all the excellent work the city is doing to help address the climate crisis we have no time to waste thank you thank you our next registrant is Michael odden of District 3 to be followed by Emily putam Mueller to be followed by Lisa children Michael do we oh here we go good evening thank you for the opportunity uh to be here tonight little nervous first time doing this um I was born in Madison at St Mary's so I'm a lifelong Madison Dane County resident um we're talking about a vote on whether to proceed on a referendum um since you're asking her for our input I would suggest that you listen and uh really listen to your constituents I'm opposed to the referendum I'll say that UPF front um taxing and spending is out of control and increased property taxes caused by the possibility of a successful referendum will result in a financial burden for generations to come Contin continual abuse of the capital budget will also result in a significant increase in debt service which lands on the operating budget I mayor and council members um thank you for poking the bear a lot of us has stood by in the background and uh watched what's been going on and uh really haven't participated we've been awakened and um I think we're just uh surprised by the level of Financial mismanagement in the years that's been going on rather than adjusting your spending to line with regularly available Revenue sources you appear ready to open the Genie's bottle and rush to a referendum if you succeed on the referendum put we will never get the genie back in the bottle we will be doomed to continual and unnecessary unnecessary increases in our property tax bills toer to enable further mismanagement and overspending like all individuals and families the city of Madison we must learn to live within our means um I want to know what's going on I went to the very first budget meeting in our district and that was on May 1st I believe you were asking at that point for a believe of 28 million maybe the financial director could confirm that um a week later we get an we get the article in the paper that says you had a $31 million surplus last year uh for 2023 why were the results delayed that long why it does it take until May for us to get that information out to our taxpayers um were they intentionally delayed was it delayed in order to get a trial balloon out there for the referendum begs the question I guess um no business could operate by delaying their financial result results that long the next week after that it was it was reported that the city was 12 million behind I believe check the num 30 seconds left in uh collecting fines and fees what was that 30 seconds 30 seconds I'll rush through this um you want to rush to this referendum you don't have a good grasp on our year-to day performance do we have good numbers for the first half of the year I don't think we do brt your writer ship is less than pre pandemic it will cost more Revenue will be lower what is the real cost to operate it how are you going to fund that you continually rally I just one more Point against the state legislature and revenue Shar formula 30 sir that your time you should spend your time with the St our next registrant is Emy sir that is your time thank you everybody else felt fell into three minutes our next registrant is Emily putam buer to be of District 11 to be followed by Lisa Vin to be followed by Kate mallerie do we have Emily doesn't look like we have Emily in the room mayor I don't see Emily listed in attendance right then we have Lisa vren of district 10 to be followed by Kate mallerie to be followed by Mary Bari do we have Lisa yep I'm here um good evening my name is Lisa vrin and I live on the southwest side of Madison uh I expect fundamental city services in return for my annual property taxes reliable garbage collection clean drinking water safe roads accessible libraries Dependable police fire and ambulance response and essential public health programs these services are foundational to a high quality of life for all residents I expect that any surplus funds are carefully reviewed and allocated by our elected officials who are entrusted with managing our property tax dollars this includes taxes paid by landlords which are often passed on to tenants as increased rent since 2011 our City's Mayors and councils have had ample opportunities to address the challenges posed by Act 10 in the pandemic confronting the structural budget deficit and adapting to our new reality were options available in each budget cycle instead they and you have opted to expand a growing list of unsustainable projects that were financially untenable as Property Owners we currently pay Madison property taxes Dane County property taxes Madison metrop metropolitan school district taxes MATC taxes an additional vehicle registration fee for both the city and and the county and additional fees added on Char Municipal bill for urban forestry and resource recovery and now you say this referendum is the only way out further putting the burden on the taxpayers in this city I say shame on you and every elected official since 2011 for continually voting for a budget with a structural deficit without confronting the realities of this future we are now facing you have put us here not the property taxpayer if this referendum is placed on the November ballot I will be voting no and to all the public listening this evening there is a city council race in 2025 I highly encourage individuals who are not afraid to educate themselves about city government and are willing to question how budget decisions will affect the property owners down the road mark your calendars for December 1st 2024 and you can start circulating your nomination papers thank you thank you our next registran is Kate mallerie of District 5 to be followed by Mary barari to be followed by Harry Richardson Kate hello um good evening my name is Kate mallerie I'm reg I'm a resident of Madison from District 5 and I'm here to urge you to vote in favor of this referendum I'm also a renter and someone living paycheck to paycheck which I mentioned in relation to the concern if we want to call it that mentioned by some previous speakers about this referendum impacting renters as someone who has absolutely struggled to pay my own rent from time to time I support this measure regardless of any risk of this measure increasing my own costs because I don't want to live in a city that chooses to cut essential services and abandon marginalized community members when there are any other avenues available I want to highlight just a few of the items put forth as proposed budget cuts as released yesterday these budget cuts would disproportionately impact already marginalized community members and include things like cutting city funding to vient health a local HIV AIDS clinic decreasing Library hours and Staffing a move which would particularly impact unhoused and low-income community members just looking for a safe place to access resources and cutting down the number of pole workers to the minimum required levels which would again disproportionately impact communities already facing heightened levels of voter suppression the discontinuation of the art Arts grants program ending the city's Financial contribution to agencies providing youth restorative justice services are additionally alarming as well as reducing night and weekend services for metr it and there is so much more on this list um since I have a little bit of time left and I know the mayor can speak to these points with more clarity than I but I'm guessing it may come up again I did just want to rebut a point a previous speaker made that of the cost of the rapid transit system as cited in the frequently asked questions put out by the city the bus Rapid Transit project does not come out of the city's operating budget that pays for City Services and the vast majority of the bus Rapid Transit Transit project is funded by federal infrastructure spending and not via local taxes so just just isn't relevant in this situation this referendum is being put forth to fund libraries and health centers not caviar and champagne I urge you to vote in favor of putting this referendum on the ballot and to continue looking for ways to mitigate this budget crisis without throwing the most marginalized and underresourced members of Madison's Community under the bus or defunding the bus itself thank you thank you our next registrant is Mary barari of district 6 to be followed by Harry Richardson to be followed by Alexis London Mary hi thank you mayor um the city's structural deficit has been around since 2012 long before most of you walked in the door maybe Mike forer is an exception um and uh and it's due basically to two um Dynamics a rapidly growing city and harsh restrictions on Revenue imposed by the legislature Madison gets the lowest amount of shared Revenue per resident in the state and this is not an accident the Republican legislature has chosen to punish Madison for its success just as it's chosen to bully and dismantle the UW system piece by piece just as it's chosen to bully our school teachers and dismantle and starve our Public Schools if Madison received um per the per resident average um in shared Revenue we'd be getting $54 million it would erase this deficit by two times our City's the fastest growing one in the state yet every year we're cutting from our budget rather than adding to it even though the rough years of the pandemic um even during the entire rough years of the pandemic this common Council has sort of wisely chosen to cut 6 million in 2021 to cut 1 million in 2022 to cut another million in 2023 in 2024 you implemented a very costly 1% budget cuts across the board that's a $3 million reduction and we continue to keep uh PE you know continue to keep jobs open which is another 2.4 million in savings but the result of all this is that we have 10% fewer City employees per thousand than we did 10 years ago May the mayor has asked agencies to prepare 5% across the board Cuts this would um eliminate 147 more positions this is on top of 144 positions that are being kept open the city just can't keep doing this it can't keep making these kinds of cuts city services need to grow as the P population grows period now later on you might hear a little bit of magical thinking you might hear that the state legislature will all of a sudden leap to our rescue and rush through a sales tax the governor already proposed a sales tax for cities in his last budget and tried to get that implemented and the future of the legislature is uncertain you might hear that we should just dump the whole rainy day fund um uh use all of it to save ourselves today well the rainy day fund helps us keep a triaa rating which saves us huge amounts and borrowing costs and has other benefits and I don't know if you noticed but the stock market took a wild ride this week we don't know what hazards might be ahead um you all know how hard our city employees work they need you now more than ever before because this city its families its children and its schools All Rise and Fall together thank you thank you our next registrant is Harry Richardson of district 6 to be followed by Alexus London to be followed by Mark Clea Harry do we have Harry online mayor I do not see Harry in attendance all right then Alexis London of District 12 to be followed by Mark clear to be followed by chai MOA [Music] Alexis do we have Alexis yes hi good evening thanks um my name is Alexis London I live in district 12 I've been a living in this area for about 18 years I'm also the executive director of Bay View Foundation which is an affordable housing development near downtown Madison I'm speaking tonight in support of the proposed referendum without the additional Revenue gained via the referendum essential services will be cut and thousands of Madison citizens will be without key supports that are needed to create a safer and stronger and more Equitable Madison the consideration of cuts um even what may appear to be a modest cut of 5% is impossible for me to imagine especially at a time when the population is growing and I see every day the need for more and more supports and services in the city especially for those who are most marginalized um and seeking of services without the referendum services such as Outreach and case management programming for people experiencing home homelessness restorative justices and Justice initiatives for teens and young adults community outreach that's part of the Madison police department health services that are part of access Community Health Center and really critical Arts and Cultural programming will be dramatically reduced and in many cases completely eliminated as the Director of bayew I see the value of many of these Services every single day we work with families coming out of home lessness we engage youth in restorative justice programming we secure Arts grants to create public art to beautify the city we refer people without health insurance to access and we know exactly what will happen if this if this referendum doesn't pass so we'll be doing everything we can to support this work to work with the city council and the mayor to ensure the passage of this referendum thank you so much for your time thank thank you uh I'm going to try and see if uh Harry Richardson is in the queue online as Barbara Smith yeah probably wife Harry is that you hello can you hear me we can go ahead okay uh sorry I had a problem here on the machine oh yes I appreciate uh city council taking the time to hear from uh this regular citizens tonight uh Mary barari uh said much of what I was thinking about saying uh better than I could have said it uh and it's also a neighbor uh along with her spouse um I'm a longtime Madison resident since 1977 uh I'm as me uh retire and I would speak in behalf of our my H ask me siblings that they uh you know should be uh able to maintain their jobs then they're doing they're doing a good job as many people have already spoken they're doing important work uh the City Works because uh asme workers are working out there and so I would urge the city to uh support this ready referendum the city council to support this referendum I'll certainly do all I can for my part to talk to my neighbors and friends and the political groups that I'm involved in that make sure that uh this referendum gets uh all the support that I can uh muster and I would urge the city council members uh to support this uh resolution and this referendum sorry and um that they need to do a really good job of educating their um uh their constituencies uh they need to uh publicize uh the reasons for the referendum and make it uh real clear to the average citizen that there's really no way to avoid this referendum uh as many speakers have already noted it's largely the fault of uh the state for not adequately funding uh the the city they plainly just don't like uh the city of Madison or Milwaukee uh anyway uh this is a real important issue I hope that you'll consider uh uh supporting the referendum uh thank you very much for your time I think that the city uh is coming into some really tough times with climate change with uh need to for the city for more housing and we need more city services uh more City support and not less thank you thank you our next tradition is Mark clear of District 19 to be followed by chai mua to be followed by Jacob AA good evening everyone Mark clear served on this Council from 2007 to 2018 so you can blame me a little bit for the predicament that the city now faces the councils on which I served and the Mayors I served with and um struggled mightily to maintain a level of city services that the people of Madison expect and deserve within the artificial and arbitrary constraints imposed by state government we did not always succeed but you can also give me a bit of credit for the fact that the situ is not more dire than it is because we implemented techniques some would call them gimmicks such as the urban forestry special charge which has been mentioned many times tonight to try to diversify the city's Revenue sources while also Distributing the pain as equitably as we could we didn't do those things to be clever we did them because our options were few subsequent councils including this one have expanded those techniques and added others like the local vehicle registration fee the reason we're at this point is wholly because of those artificial and arbitrary constraints imposed by state government now I need to tell you a quick story when he joined the city as Finance director I asked Dave schmi who had previously been the state budget director an unfair question which is I asked him if the city's tax system was fair what he told me was eye openening he said that the three primary types of taxes property sales and income each have their inherent disparities and that a fair system balances each of those three legs so that no one group is carrying an outsized burden historically he said Wisconsin had such a balance system and the state collects income and sales taxes municipalities collect property taxes the state uses shared Revenue essentially as a proxy so that cities can share in the income and sales tax but in the early 2000s that balance started to shift shared Revenue didn't keep pace and the growth of needs for services increased got a lot worse in the 2010s but it hadn't started then um as Ci's needs increased the share the state's share of providing city services decreased putting more and more burden on property taxes when people across the state felt that that that burden the legislature responded in 2011 not by increasing shared Revenue but instead by artificially and arbitrarily constraining City's ability to raise property taxes while giving cities no other options to make up that Revenue over the years since the result has been steady and predictable anyone in Madison can see the symptoms of this process by looking at their Municipal Services bill or their vehicle registration meanwhile a balloon has been building that is ready to burst and that's why we're here today Dave schmi described to me that fair system that we don't have anymore and the uh only option is to go to referendum there's a message out there that we've heard that the city must live within its means but the fallacy of that narrative is that the means have artificially and arbitrarily been constrained for years Madison's tremendous growth is and I'm of time okay thank you all thank you our next registrant is chai MOA of district 14 to be followed by Jacob ala to be followed by Kayla ever chai hi everyone thank you for the opportunity to speak today you know it was really hard for me to think of um how was sitting with this issue around the referendum you know I'm seeing as much as I want this R from them to be on the ballot and um because I know that so much of the essential services that folks have talked about earlier um are essential to continuing um are essential to make sure that we keep continuing I really can't support this referendum as a service provider who's seen a 300% increase in uh requests for housing but yet uh don't see the right proportion of investment from the city into to affordable housing or into life um like uh basic needs uh for most vulnerable citizens in the city of Madison I have a hard time supporting this referendum without seeing where uh all of this is truly going to be invested as I'm looking at the potential at as I'm looking at the cuts that are being proposed but also looking at the current budget and seeing where Investments are made the invest Ms that are made into uh areas like Community Development and public health it's still only like 25% of the police budget so I think we have to come back to really look at where Investments are being uh put into uh where the budget is being put into and where else we can pull from if we're really talking about protecting those most Val uh vulnerable in this community so again I'm against this referendum I don't think it should go to the ballot I think as a city you all need to come back we look at um where funding is being invested and then come back uh with a solid plan if you want a referendum of exactly where that money is going to be invested and as um a homeowner in the city um as uh someone who works with folks I can just see the impact that uh increased taxes are going to continue to have on the housing market in Madison and for those who um of us who those who rent can continue to say Yes um you don't mind but many folks can't even get into housing and we haven't even looked at issue and some of the uh services that are needed for that and so uh increased taxes are going to continue to drive housing costs up and F about 30 seconds not to be able to um yeah get the life saving and the basic needs that they actually need so until the city of Madison investors in basic needs of those most vulnerable I cannot support a referendum like this thank you our next registrant is Jacob AA of District 12 to be followed by Kayla ever to be followed by Cara mcneel Jacob hey hey am I audible you are thank you Miss mayor and thanks to the common Council so I learned about this referendum when one of my friends who works for the police department out to me and said will you please vote Yes on this so that I don't lose my job and she was the first of several tons of people who are friends of mine who work for the city in one capacity or another said please vote Yes on this so I don't lose my job so I'll tell you something if we don't pass this referendum we will lose a lot of funding for things like the police department the fire department garbage collection and I think this is really simple I like that when my trash is full somebody takes it I like that if there's a fire someone puts it out and I like that if there's an emergency there are cops to call and I want all of those utilities to have appropriate funding uh I hear a lot of people who are concerned about property taxes so let's talk about those I have a friend who just bought a house that is $300,000 he will pay $15 a month in property taxes per this referendum if it passes I know that he spent more on dinner the other day and I know that he would way rather forfeit his spinach tortellini than he would lack funding for City Utilities H if you are a business and you have $50 million worth of property you pay 2500 bucks worth of property tax because of this referendum and that is a pin prick on a financial report for a business it's less than the amount that they're probably paying for their insurance policy so the way that I see it if you have somebody that you want to be upset with then you can be upset with the Wisconsin State Legislature uh look at that bar chart of the shared Revenue per resident and look at how tiny the enormous city of Madison is um so that's all I got thank you so much thank you our next registrant is Kayla ever of Vernon a to be followed by Cara mcneel to be followed by Robbie Weber we have Kayla hi yes um first of all thank you all I appreciate you um being here to hear comment tonight um and I just want to share I guess about neither like in support or um in opposition of a referendum but rather add some context that I have um concerning some of the work that I do in this community and so for reference um I'm a person who works in our community um in a partnership of organizations I don't want to speak out um but there'll be more comments from my organization but um this is my personal comment working as somebody who has one experienced homelessness myself um and currently Works in partnership with the city of Madison to and many other organizations across our community Dane County um in you know collaborative Community plans that have over the past year year and a half um released plans that I feel are very related to this um so the first plan uh Dane forward which is a five-year plan to prevent and end homelessness there's also a similar plan that focus focuses specifically on Youth and then the third that comes to mind for me is the Regional Housing strategies road map for solving D County's um housing crisis and so unfortunately there's a lot of things that come to mind for me that I will not be able to share or speak about throughout this but I think it is really important um to there was a lot of work um and honestly these were funds planned um plans funded by uh the city of Madison Dane County and other groups that focused on what kind of impact um or where our community was at as far as housing uh the housing crisis as it currently stands and kind of the plan that we need to move forward and so what I'm concerned about is that I am worried that this referendum um I don't feel as though I have enough information about it and how it plays into this um and I think that it's really important that everyone get a chance to look at these plans um you have about 30 seconds left um and just like look at the there's a lot of different options and thoughts and kind of commitments that have went into this and how we can fund the most vital services in our community um housing first is a huge one I know that you know there is a lot of information um that is accessible to people about house how housing first programs work please look into it because it can actually decrease the cost of emergency services and other services across our community that's your time thank you so much our next registrant is Cara mcneel of District 17 to be followed by Robbie Weber to be followed by Nino Amato Cara hi I'm Cara um I live in the Samberg um School area um I also work at the school I am not here on behalf of Madison School District I'm here as a resident um my main M reason for being here today is because I know that if the referendum doesn't pass that our library district is aot going to see a lot of cuts and we are they are working to build an imagination Center which would give our community finally access to a library to a resource center we're one of the only schools that don't have access to a before school program um uh that has Transportation provided to our school um we have a big hotel population over there where a lot of our residents are there seeking temporary housing and there is no transportation that they have that is reliable to any sort of resources in our area our children in our school don't have resources like a lot of our schools do on the West Side to get Transportation or access to after school programming um there's just not a lot of safe options for them out there so I'm here advocating for all the kids in my neighborhood for my own kids who live there that this Resource Center this referendum passing can allow this to be built which will provide so many resources to our area that currently really is without a lot um I also know that being a part of attending the city planning meetings um working on like the north Northeast area plan seeing the trajectory of our population increase over the next few years is huge so to cut resources for City positions like trash collection and our water and our police and fire it just seems like it's going to put us in a really horrible spot um to cut these positions when we're seeing a huge increase in our resident growth so I'm here to Advocate that please we need this referendum to pass our Eastsiders are drowning and we need a lot more support from our city and this referendum is our stepping stone to do that thank you thank you our next registrant is Robbie Weber of District 5 to be followed by Nino Amato to be followed by Paul sagin Robbie hi um I'm going to start with a quote that is uh actually on the side of the IRS building in Washington DC it's from Oliver Wendell homes he said taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society and what that means is we are all in this together and there is no way to have a society without all putting in something there's a lot of different types of taxes income taxes sales taxes import taxes uh property taxes business taxes personal taxes there is no perfect system but in Wisconsin we rely for municipalities on property taxes and whatever the state legislature decides to give back to us in shared Revenue that's our choice we get a lot for our taxes in Madison we have an excellent quality of life we have excellent Services we have great Parks we have great programs we have libraries we have all kinds of we have trash pickup I mean sometimes people have to pay to have their trash picked up in other places so we get a lot but it looks like we're going to have to put a question on the ballot in the fall how much we value the services and quality of life that we have here in Madison the state state is clearly short changing Madison in shared Revenue we send off money to the state in property TA in sales taxes and income taxes and we get back $29 per person whereas the average municipality gets $142 per person we know that they're doing this because they don't like Madison they don't like how successful we are they don't like our politics but that's what we have have to deal with so we are either going to have to pay more in taxes or we are going to have to make some severe cuts and nobody really wants either of those choices um being an older is tough I did it for six years that's about my limit and yes just like Mark clear I also probably I went through a lot of tough budgets as well you about 30 seconds you're going to have to muster all of your strength your knowledge your courage and do the right thing put the referendum on the ballot and then explain the facts to your constituents thank you thank you our next registrant is Nino Amato of District 9 to be followed by Paul soin to be followed by Taya Travis Nino can you hear me now yes okay uh as a lifelong resident of Madison and Grandson of Italian immigrants who fled the rising fascism and communism in Europe Madison has been our home for four generations and as good people who have consistently supported increases in Madison City's budgets and the Madison metropolitan school uh budgets medison taxpayers and renters are finally at a threshold and they're feeling our elected officials and some of our city agencies are taking City taxpayers generosity for granted that's why Madison renters and residential property taxpayers have hit their threshold and because of that they're now facing three referendums one for $604 million put forth by the school district and now we're coming up with ours there couldn't be a worse time to put a referendum on a ballot I propose you put it off until April why because what we can do in the interim is create a crisis management emergency t task force consisting of former city alers county and City department heads business and labor leaders to come up with a strategic Financial strategy to address the legislative fiscal constraints and also come up with measurable and budgetary services that we can show have results the task force would then report back to the city council honor before November 1st they would then put this before the voters and then put whatever increases may need to be done on the April ballot I have never seen such resistance and such backlash in all my years in City politics I believe you will lose that vote and I also believe the school district will Le at least lose one of the two this is not the time to put the referendum on the fall ballot and I'll be available later to ask or respond to any questions thank you our next registrant is Paul soin of District 12 to be followed by Tamaya Travis to be followed by Alexis Turner thank you I think we're all in agreement that we believe in economic Justice and I think we're all rather horrified at the two Alternatives that have been presented for this financial crisis the referendum and the opportunity for these drastic cuts that is not the only choice the city has in fact there's a far superior choice that brings economic Justice and an opportunity for the city to write some of the wrongs we've heard discussed regarding the state legislature there are many reasons for the city's fiscal crisis shared revenue is only one of them it's only one part of the problem and it is a sad mistake to say that shared revenue is the only Revenue that we get from the state of Wisconsin I'd ask right now is there anybody in the room besides Dave schmidi who can Des describe the expenditure restraint program and how much money Madison gets from it what about the municipal Services Program the point is this there are multitude of opportunities to work with the state but before we do that we have to be honest about our challenges here I want to also make a clear that there is structural deficits and structural deficits structural deficits of $2 to3 million occurred in most of the years that I was mayor they were a result of external factors Rising fuel costs Rising Insurance costs they were not the kind of structural deficits you've seen The Last 5 Years which have ranged from 10 to2 million which are the result in part of decisions inappropriately made in past City budget starting with 2020 relying on a number of factors such as the use of premium and the excessive uh use of the rainy day fund there is an alternative but you're going to have to look to Milwaukee for the solution because they really outdid you in 2023 open records requests reveal tragically that Madison and Dayne County legislators had far more contact in 2023 is budget discussions with the state than they had from contacts from Madison we're not just talking about city government we're talking about County government we're talking about labor unions we're talking about the business Community they knew how to do it not bad for a city that's detested just as much as this one nothing's going to happen unless you show up I think Woody Allen made the point I don't remember if it's 80% or 90% of life is showing up now's the opportunity and there are at least four possibilities that you can explore with the state government you have 30s remember this you're not dealing with Scott Walker you're not dealing with a legislature coming out of Act 10 you are going to be dealing with governor iers and you're going to be dealing with a very differently constituted state government you can be looking at increases in terms of the city of Madison for a sales tax for a Regional Transit Authority thank you that's your time and additional Services thank you our next registrant is Tamaya Travis of anon Drive representing HSC education and advocacy to be followed by Alexis Turner hi hi my name is Taya Travis I am the hsse education and advocacy committee chair and I am coming to speak neither in support nor opposition of the referendum just coming to give a few thoughts um as a group made up over a 100 diverse organizations the homeless S Services Consortium at this time is not in direct support or opposition of the item but instead the Dan County Education advocacy committee would like to share the relevant information concerning the city's proposed referendum as it prop as it poses a significant risk to sustainability of the progress made during the covid-19 pandemic should ad addendum go to vote and fail the Consortium has responded that the pandemic alongside our collaborative applicant the city of Madison to implement substantial improvements to ensure basic safety of our unsheltered H and housing insecure and our health sensitive community members in various areas including the centralization and enhancement of Sheltering conditions the successful transition of individuals from hotels to permanent housing and robust eviction prevention measures these advancements have been pivotal in addressing the local homelessness and housing insecurity during unprecedented National housing crisis but let us be clear this is not enough despite these many achievements we have also experienced setbacks such as the loss of housing units due to unexpected sale of Madison's rethink and treelane properties the conversion of hotels to housing and other vital progam programs which leave us facing the projected deficit of 1,683 housing newants needed to meet local service needs entering 2025 additionally numerous unmet needs P persists within our community such as the lack of affordable housing where the average studio apartment in Dan County inadequate shelter conditions the need for Supportive Services and organ organized resources the proposed referendum May maintain crucial funding for these services and sustain significant progress we have worked tirelessly to achieve but okay but increasing property taxes could propose additional risk pushing our community further away from a solution where R costs will continue to rise creating uh even more difficult cost of living for the entire Community thank you thank you and our next and I think last registrant wishing to speak is Alexis Turner of Fitchburg hi everyone my name is Alexis Turner I've worked for the city of Madison for 40 plus years and my first job I made about $30 a day well I make close to that um I do better now I will say that each cub foot of new road increases the long-term cost to Residents to maintain to clear to collect trash to provide clean water to provide uh efficient and effective storm water to enforce to respond to emergencies to mental health to M uh minimize heat idence so for those of us who are addicted to our personal vehicles we are part of the issue because the more you uh roads you build the more infrastructure you have to support especially wider roads one of the things I'm in favor of is the bus rapid transit system because our roads are at capacity and we cannot really afford to continue this way so I am in support of the referendum I would like to see um more effective use as it were so that we aren't subsidizing uh personal vehicles and uh I would also heard it describ that we tend to approach things from a boutique perspective when it comes to city services thank you thank you those are all the registers wishing to speak on item 68 um Alder Madison y I just wanted to ask whether or not Mark clear had more to share all right so before we uh jump into questions that is next um I just uh one note that if you I I I would very much appreciate if you could ask a specific question if you are asking to just give people additional time it's been requested that we vote on an additional minute um for folks so it i' give the Alder an opportunity to ask a specific question well nope I'm just asking for more time right is there objection to giving Mark CLE an additional minute see seeing no objection all they're clear thank you I appreciate that and I won't take the entire minute the only point I was going to make that I didn't have time to say was that I believe that the folks of the city of Madison understand the stakes that are uh in front of us and that they will support a referendum so thank you thank you Elder M thank you uher miad uh yes just asking uh um mayor Paul San finish his statement is there objection to having Paul San get an extra minute not seeing any objection I I'll pass I'll answer questions right thank you Alder uh W he was next uh the last caller uh we finish our thoughts also uh don't remember her name Alexis did you want to finish anything nope she's good uh Alder ginda Rajan thank you if Adam Nelson is here I just have a clarify clarifying question let's see I don't think we have Adam anymore okay thank you thank you Alder Alder Bennett I have a question and for Mark Mark sure Robbie could answer too as a former older but um you were speaking about um uh how back in 2019 or former budgets you had made numerous mitigating measures and like myself and some of our colleagues weren't around at that time so it would be really helpful to just kind of gain a con like contextually kind of what where is the conversations happening then and like you know that led us up to this point I'm sure you were thinking or maybe you weren't like 5 years out about what we would be talking about now in 2024 so you just Place us there and like what what was the conversations sure well as you know it's really hard to think that far out ahead um but as you also know every budget cycle is the worst budget cycle ever and that becomes kind of a trit saying but it's also true um that every budget cycle this problem that we've been describing gets a little bit worse where the city's needs and requirements because of all the things that that we've talked about get larger and the constraints get a little tighter and so over the years there have been many efforts and actually uh mayor rhs Conway when she was on the council um initiated one of those uh processes which resulted in the urban Forest special charge which was really a way to try to get around the constraints and find a different way to increase Revenue to the city um in a way that could be done that would support a specific service and you know subsequent councils I can't remember if it was this one or the previous one did the um resource recovery fee that it's essentially the same idea thank you I appreciate that thank you uh Alder knock [Music] yes thank you um Miss Madame mayor um I'd like um um Mr Nino Amato to finish his statements I'm sorry I didn't ask at the time that he completed uh that's okay is there objection to granting another minute to Nino Amato not seeing an objection so thank you what one more minute Nino you should be able to unmute Nino you should have a prompt to unmute there you go can you now yeah go ahead thank you um in summary we can't solve our fiscal crisis with the same policy thinking we used when we created them and as David just pointed out every future budget cycle will even be more challenging and the only way we can address this is look at restructuring the way we deliver costeffective city services and programs which means we got to look at the county got to look at the city what services we provide we look at backroom Services when I was president of the technical college system we were up against Republicans and they were going to do all sorts of restructuring that would have harmed us about 20 seconds we welcom the audit we came up with a more restructuring program to make uh the dollars go a longer way and it was successful give the voters a chance to hear something substantive and put the referendum then in the spring ballot thank you thank you aler Harrington McKinny thank you Madame mayor um uh Robbie I don't know if you're still on um Robbie are you still there Robbie wber uh she is um she's left the room Alder but she is just outside it so we'll see if we can get her back okay thank you uh if not we can go on M no she we we've got her back Robbie I'm sorry Alder H mckin has a question for you okay go ahead Alder thank you Robbie you know I'm always so impressed with you and so one of the things that you um put out in the space is that we all have to put in something and would you take a minute to just kind of caveat and and complete that statement you only have a minute but I know you can do it okay well I I'm actually gonna tee off on something that somebody asked um Mark CLA and someone just asked me in the hallway and that is what would we have done what we did when we were on the council and I tried to say that building out is much more expensive than building up because trying to service dispersed low density areas of the city is much more expensive than compressed areas and for those who think that brt is expensive I've got a news for you about how much roads cost and uh I tried to get the city to not build so many roads when I was on the council be and expand roads because I knew it was going to be expensive but now we're stuck with them and I think that we need to change our transportation policy so that we don't have to service expanded roads because they are really really expensive and the decisions we're making now are going to be much cheaper in the long run Alder har mckin anything additional sorry I don't think that answered your question but no but but are you complete are you complete that's my question anything additional no that that actually what I just said was everything else that was in my notes okay thank you madam mayor thank you Robbie thank you Alder Alder field thank you mayor I wanted to see if uh Michael aen wanted to take a minute and conclude his comments is there any objection to an additional minute seeing no objection Michael Yes um thank you Derek um I just want to apologize first time going through this and I went a little long I won't go long this time I I I guarantee it I just think that um this path we're going down is not the necessary one and listening to all of the speakers there is vital Services we need and we have Revenue that we have to figure out how we're going to use it to the our best Advantage going to referendum I think again is the genie out of the bottle once you get that you'll want it all the time so um we I think we have to stop and reassess and go from there but thank you for the time thank you Alder RL thank you mayor um kind of honored to have so many former Alders with us tonight and I would ask a question of Nino Amato uh okay yep go ahead Alder thank you for raising a question that rarely we' have heard or an idea and that is to wait until April the common sense logic is a big turnout in November it's the best time how do you other than the points you've already made how do you counter like timing questions well as we all know in politics timing is everything if you look at the issues that are being raised by Republicans on the one side which obviously many of us do not agree with and what's being Advanced with the future on the other side is that we are in a middle class crisis people are living paycheck to paycheck there are people who now have graduated and can't uh even make their payments on their cars or their home and if there was ever a time even though it's a big turnout there are people who are going to say I cannot afford to live in the city they are retired people they're new home buyer people they're renters who saying if you pass more taxes my rent's going to go up there's an undercurrent I have not seen in this city and all my years in politics and I truly believe that when people come out and there's going to be a group that's going to say vote no it's going to go down the column no on one or both of the school district referendums and what'll happen is that'll Trail all the way down and it'll hurt the city of Madison and the reason for that is we haven't come up with a real in-depth plan and that's why I proposed task force by putting this off until April we can go through this in a more um pragmatic way bring the necessary players show the taxpayers what we've done to address the issues and then I think it would pass but without that I think it's doomed to fail thank you that's all I have thank you aler I have no other alers in the queue for questions Alder miad oh yeah just a question for uh Paul and see um were the just a last question were the budget um basically the same um through the years that you were mayor are are you asking was the the budget crisis different each year yeah the short answer is yes um there were not major crises every year and well for example in the 1970s we had the oil embargo and Fuel and energy Co costs shut through the roof uh which was unanticipated and that was a a a a major crisis that affected a twoyear cycle but we in effect got over it and long term the city has solved that um I assume practice is still going on of the city buying um uh fuel F futures gasoline Futures to to keep cost down and and to steady them out uh the first year I came back well in the 90s let me let me correct something Mark clear is just totally wrong about what he said about the history of of um shared Revenue I don't know what de schmi said in that conversation I don't recall it but I do recall the history of shared revenue and shared Revenue did not have an adverse effect on the city of Madison from the time it was reopt in the Lucy years the 1970s until we get into the mid1 1980s the reason is is that the national economy was stagnant what happens is in the mid 80s to the late 80s the city of Madison starts taking off compared to the rest of the state and as a result of that when you look at the three elements that are part of the formula for shared Revenue population poverty and tax base the size of the levy our Levy base increases which hurts us immensely in the shared Revenue formula and so consequently something that nobody conceived of was happening a city was having massive growth in the levy its tax base and in poverty and that was measured several ways because back in the 70s 7% of Madison school children were eligible for free and reduced lunch and that was the number of afdc households that we had in the city at the time by time we get to the 1990s there's 22% of the kids in the Madison schools are eligible and that was pretty verifiable as an accurate measure of poverty within the community so by time we get to the 1990s Madison's already got an enormous drag in regards to uh the shared Revenue formula at that point we went to the Thompson Administration which acknowledged the problem and we combined with Milwaukee and we had a successful effort to create the expenditure uh restraint program and I can't remember what year that went into effect sometime around 92 93 Dave schmidan can probably know the year better than I do but at that point uh those greater revenues were were were to make a difference and nobody's fought the inequities of the shared Revenue formula way I have I mean back at that point we were putting wanted posters of legislators up around the square uh in time for uh farmers markets and and and the art fair when we get to 2011 um right at the time of Act 10 we had a horrible situation which was not just the result of Act 10 but of some foolishness conducted by the city because in the rush to get the labor contracts adopted nobody put pencil to paper nobody knew what they were going to cost and as we looked at what was going to happen for calendar year 2011 and 2012 that particular year or those two-year period uh we were way over all of our expenditure limitations and we didn't have the levy capacity or any capacity to deal with the problem as a result we sat down with the bargaining units and you heard somebody here earlier talk about the county at that point having uh lay offs and um what's it called where people are cycling into 4-day work weeks furlows furlows so we met with the unions and we made an agreement with them and that's how we got out of that crisis and the agreement was there'd be no layoffs or furlows in exchange they would lose portion of the salary increases and the contracts that they had just signed but we guaranteed that they would get them within another two years then we were all right for a couple of years except when Emerald Ash Bor hit and you heard Mark clear describe the forestry fee what had happened at that point we had the remediation fee for the landfills and we no longer needed all that Revenue so uh what I agreed to which is not what happened was we lowered the remediation fee and the difference is made up with an increase in the forestry fee specifically to cover ever Emerald Ash Bor the city council decided to go even further and raise the fee more than I'd agreed to I couldn't stop because I didn't have enough votes to to uphold The veto at the same time there were a couple of subsequent years where we didn't have a lot of problems which included uh meeting with all the major health care providers this is interesting because the city's in the State Insurance Pool which controls what we're paying but uh we met with the all the the health care providers and really kind of put the screws on them saying we're going to go public with the cost here the cost of premiums and the cost of coverage and for the next two years there were basically no increases in health insurance and the budget crisis wasn't that great however all during that period there was a running battle with the city council and it was one that I failed to win as they met illegally in secret meetings uh at budget time to put together what they called Omnibus amendments and The Debt Service was just going out of control um but every year is is is different depending on in most cases external factors uh though sometimes they're brought on by the city but I just you can't play the game if you don't show up somebody has got to go and work you got to talk to Robin Voss he and the Republicans have been raided here numerous times you've got to go talk to him you've got to go to the governor now while he's putting together the budget for next uh January for next session and you got to talk to him about all those opportunities he knows that Madison is critical to the state he knows that Madison's critical to his own political base and the Republicans are not going to have the kinds of majorities next year that they've had over the past decade it's time for somebody to fight but whether it's it's our own delegation or it's the governor they're not going to fight if Madison doesn't show up I agree thank you thank you Elder other figuro call sorry thank you mayor I have a question for um um oh my God R RS I forgot I'm sorry Dan RS Dan can go your name then can you talk a little bit about the changes on per capita employees over the past 10 years sure sure thank you for that um just to clarify so I've said in of this body several times uh city employees have been asked to do more with less in my entire 20 years at the city um in the last decade plus the number of per capita employees that the city has has dropped from 11.1 city employees per capita to almost 10.1 10.0 depending on how you measure it and what that really means is the city has continued to grow by Leaps and Bounds and we continue to grow as staff a little bit but there's always more work to do than there is Staff you've heard from some of the folks who are here and you who have left tonight about the demands that that's put on City staff for everything from library hours to trash pickup to homeless housing Service uh homeless Housing Services to snow plowing all of those things so we are doing more with less and have done more with less for the last decade Plus um you know prior to act 10 it was still happening and we were still being asked to do more with less but it got supercharged after Act 10 um as far as what we could do now to change that going to the state I don't know that I'd count on that but I what I do know and what is not a question is that the city has to pass a balanced budget right now and going to the state and asking folks who have let's be honest for the last 10 plus years has kicked us in The Shins every single time they've had an opportunity seems like a risky bet from where I sit maybe they've changed Tunes maybe we can all sing Kumbaya I love that song but at the same time I'd rather make certain as a public servant as a resident and a homeowner and a taxpayer in our city that we've got a budget that provides those services that deals with this deficit long term maybe there's a way moving forward who knows what the election will bring who knows what'll happen next year um apparently there's been some political hubub on the national scene that might trickle down to the state and change how our election or how our legislature is is dealt with and how they're structured right now maybe we get some changes there and maybe there's some rational decision making but right now we have to pass a b you excuse me have to pass a balanced budget and you have to fill that budget hole and the the most Progressive Way available is a referendum do I like it as a homeowner not a big fan but I'd much rather put my money back into my community back into my fellow employees back into the folks who need it more than me than trying to scrape everything off the bottom of our sort of our proverbial fiscal budget trying to take things away from the folks who have the least who can least afford those cuts and frankly seeing my fellow employees out of jobs because of layoffs so that's a long-winded answer but I appreciate the question thank you then thank you I have no other all there in the queue for questions never fails Alder mayad oh sorry mayor uh didn't mean to fail you but uh I'll just have one more question for the speaker that just spoke Dan yes sir no you talked about the shared Revenue I was saying did you get a chance to see believe it was David Crawley from Milwaukee fight for shared Revenue um I don't recall that I might have seen it but I I've seen so many buzzer presentations in the last few months that I County Executive in Milwaukee I I have not seen that particular one that I can recall so I I do know that Milwaukee cut a for lack of a better term cut a deal with the state where they got additional ability to raise sales tax revenue but there were other strings attached to it as far as how they could spend it and other things about what they could do um we're not Milwaukee with the greatest of respect to a great City they were in a much different fiscal situation than we are um they were facing I don't know if insolvency is the right word but they were in much more Dire Straits than we are right now we have a way to deal with our situation now they didn't and you know they did they played their hand as I understand it the best that they could I'm obviously not a a State political operator um but they also were in such a dire straight that everybody as as one of the other speakers noted a lot of folks from Milwaukee city county and other entities went to the state and said you have to help us out you have to help us or we will be insolvent nobody wants to open up the State Journal or the the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and see the front page that says Milwaukee's bankrupt nobody wants to be the person who's in charge when that happens so they as I understand it they cut this deal to give Milwaukee the ability to Stave that off and it works as as I understand it I I'm I'm not into the Milwaukee political weeds but it works we are not Milwaukee with again the greatest of respect to that City we are in a different position we can solve this problem it's made worse by the state but we can solve our problem at the same time if we're as I said before if we're going to go to the state and ask for Relief look at the deal that Milwaukee got and look at the the essentially the price they had to pay they the way that I view it is they had to go hat in hand and maybe not for assistance but darn close we don't need to do that and quite frankly if if we get relief from the legislature at some point that'd be great I would love to see that but are you willing to count on that I'm not I'm not willing to count on the current makeup of the legislature changing enough betwix now and November when you have to adopt a budget or even now and next year to make that big of a difference I'd love to see it I'll be honest with you but it's not a bet that I would want to make especially especially when we're talking about critical services to folks who need them we're talking about jobs or layoffs here at the city you know to me it's like playing roulette you might win you might but you might also lose big and from my perspective this is our house that we're betting our our figurative Community House I'd much rather go back and find a way that we have control over that we here in this room and here in the city have control over as opposed to going someplace hat in hand and hoping hoping that somebody will help us out and especially when those folks haven't done that in the past I'm just saying that I I wouldn't mind banding Al there a question uh yes so when that time comes uh do you mind if I band together with you brothers and sister Union officials and and see if we can talk to the state and and do something about it do you mind if I ban together count on us being there all right thank you I I don't think there's any question that we would love to be there to be part of the conversation to have some input about how to solve this problem because because it's not just our problem or our solution it's exactly all of ours y all right that that concludes my question thank you aler thanks uh ladimir burus oh yeah I had a couple of questions for Mary betari I don't think she's here anymore okay um then can I ask a couple questions of um uh Mark clear please you're not going to ask me to explain the expenditure restraint program are you no but I it's been a few years I am going to ask you a few things I've just been trying to study and just you know get a variety of of um opinions as we're making a b big decision that sure certainly should not be political because it's involving people's lives um in particular the staff um when you you talked about um you talked about let me just get my notes right here I had you in front of me oh um the fair system and the uh different time periods that that was happening so there was pre 2011 and then there was um you know uh the act that everybody was down there protesting um pre- 2011 as I understand it I'm setting up the question mayor um pre 2011 I understand it it was a fair system um and post uh 2011 it was not is there a reason that we get smaller percentage other than that the state legislature hates us and wants to crush us um maybe that's a valid case nobody's there I was down there and for for the ACT um protesting but um is there a reason that other cities get more than us besides they hate us well I think part of the reason has to do with the formula itself and frankly Madison's success at being high growth the formula works against us um in ways that then end up making it more difficult for us to keep that shared revenue from the state and makes us more subject to the expenditure restraint program because we're required to um only raise revenue within the net new construction and even though we have a lot of growth in the city as a percentage of the city it's still relatively small and so it doesn't give us enough Headroom to um really raise the revenue to keep up with um the kinds of expenditures that we need is that yeah so I'm trying to understand is that like we we are doing better we have more resources so we get less you know it's kind of like you know people complain about you know people are getting assistance but you know people that need assistance more uh you know it kind it's kind of an equalizer is that the same thing with the other cities it's more of an equalizer uh where you know if I'm living in a farming community and I don't get as much my city would totally go under wouldn't have police force or is it just strictly politics I'm just trying to get the clear real answer that's transparent I I think you know and this is my opinion but I think it's some of both um I think the legislature does have the intention of helping cities that need it more more um and so because of Madison's growth we you know we don't benefit as much from that formula and I think there's certainly an element to the fact that that because that punishes us um I believe there are people in the legislature that um appreciate that aspect of it let's say okay and then my other question was about thank you um my other question was from your opinion um you know it seems like you know us alers are we're just getting you know learning this for the you know first time January February where we were asked to lay out our values uh uh you know of what people wanted to have cut and many of us thought across the aisles different types of alers thought well we have to have more information we just can't have a one you know 4our meeting and count it as a deep dive um but if you were looking um what I mean when you analyze it I don't know if you spend your time analyzing or not but what would be um why did we have you know maybe 2 to three million six to S million and now we're we just get hit with like well what started out is 27 million why that jump I'm trying to get down to the answer that's nonpartisan non-side just uh you know the truth you know I have Les less expertise on that question than than your own Finance staff but as I understand it that you know there were two things one is there has been this incremental increase this squeezing over the years and that the things that Co created both in terms of the additional costs and then the one or several times but not forever um Revenue that came in from the feds and from the state to help mitigate some of those really exacerbated that problem that probably we would be here either way um it may not be as significant today if Co had happened it's hard to speculate on that but that that definitely accelerated the process you know maybe it would be two or three more years before it would be this bad if not for covid but it would happen eventually and then thank you da is not raising his hand and saying you know totally wrong so maybe he will later he's done a lot of meetings we thank him for that um and then just kind of um because you were here for so long um you know you said 2007 20 2018 so you know 11 years um this business of it seems to me like when I read stuff and talk to people and whatnot that like we're just already 10% under staff is and you know we're holding positions open I mean what's the impact of that well I think the impact of that you heard from some of your own staff it's people working more um it's people you know working harder trying to do several different jobs at the same time I mean I think that you know that the city staff of Madison work hard they have a strong commitment to customer service and to really get things done um but at the end of the day there's only so many hours in the day there's only so many miles you can drive in a bucket truck to take care of tree limbs and all the other things that and some of those things the level of service that we have you know can't keep up with the um the growth in the needs and I'm sure as a outside perspective but yet having been on Council um just go going is like so when you said we were and it just it just dawned on me I just heard what you said that we're going to face this anyway this deficit this looming deficit I have two-part question is why and then what are we going to do if is as as I've been reading and understanding and talking to people that after five five years we're going to be back in the same place so my two-part qu did you catch my two questions there uh I think so I mean I'll answer the second part first because then I'm going to forget the first part and ask you to repeat it but I think that that even the the kind of referendum that you're looking at it's not a permanent solution and so at some point in the future several years maybe it'll go seven or eight years you're going to be asking the taxpayers for another referendum I mean the the problem of not being able being th those constraints that you have that's not going away you can't just referendum that problem away I'm sorry what was the first and so it just went to like back to the what you said is that we we knew as a city and and maybe we even knew as a city all the way back but we knew as a city that we were going to hit this you know massive roadblock it's like you know that you often hear on a national level that there people are $30 million short um yeah so I'm just wondering the factors that you felt like got us there besides the state legislature and they don't give us enough money I I think what you're asking is do we know that we were kicking cans down the road and that there would be some explosion later I think that that the answer is yes to some extent um and yet I feel like there wasn't necessarily anything that we could have done differently to prevent that okay okay and so in your experience like you guys in in in up through 2018 I mean uh you know I'm talking for smiki uh he he loves the B Bond rating and he would tape himself to the door so that we never go below triaa and um I just I'm just trying to get at how we got for the public of yeah it would be very bad yeah and how we got here do we understand this uh and what are other options and then I wanted to ask you about this Surplus that we that we found out in 2013 and I understand that's going to happen in 2014 a little bit um and then our rating day fund um and increasing it quite a bit in your opinion uh why is it that we could or could not just simply apply the rainy day fund uh to the situation and have it where it went down the road a little bit and we as a council can continue to ask questions get educated and really get to the answer and and whatnot cuz I I certainly don't want to make a decision that's you know uh based on pressure and I'm actually quite upset that we're putting the staff up against this the referendum when I already know they're 10% short and I look at some of the colleagues in the room and they could be gone that's like feels to me that feels to me to be totally irresponsible so so um my understanding looking at the rainy day fund is first of all yes you need that back stop to maintain the bond rating but also you can kind of think of it as onetime money and that if you start to raid that not only do you potentially erode that Bond rating but eventually it's gone and then you got nothing and then the problems that were created and that you patched over are just exacerbated whenever that happens so it sounds like we probably need to look for different solutions long term maybe I would say that's true yes all right thank you thank you appreciate it maybe I should stay up thank you Alder um we do have one other Alder in the que I I did have a couple other questions but sure let them go and I'll come back Alder hington mckin was it for Alder clear uh yes it is for Alder clear for go ahead Alder um so sorry but call him older okay um Mark um I have a very strong group in District 20 um and they support um strong towns and they talk about a term that you just threw out and you said net new construction so you you put that out and so what I'm going to circle back and ask why did you identify net new constructions in our conversation tonight I'm that completes my question uh I'm not completely sure I understand your question Alder but n new construction is the amount of growth in the city's tax base from year to year and the um expenditure restraint program is is based on that number I'm sorry okay my question ly limit you introduced it you yeah you introduced it and I thought that there was a reason for you to introduce that term that's why I called it back yeah it was in response to a question um which I've now forgotten sorry okay no worries um I'm complete thank you Alder thank you uh Alder ladimer burus oh yes if I could ask um just a second if I could ask let me take a look at my notes I have like seven pages of notes here so just a second oh Rick if I could talk to Rick Rick Mark yes thank you thank you so much and thank you for your advocacy and I'm you know I'm I know that we as a council don't want to cut employees at all I'm so sorry that the city's in that position um so I was wondering that you know and I don't I know that you don't speak for everybody but just as um you know one of the leaders of and the founding president as you said um I asked you the same question about like other Alternatives um surplus funds um it seems like the the uh you know the city council office uh you know our chief of staff Karen called for five public meetings when when uh you know we realized that we were going to be making a decision on something that's very serious that's has long-term impacts and we don't even know some of the terms that we're voting on it's that bad and we got educated now we're a little bit educated we're dangerously educated and um we're eager to find solutions that long term for the city that we want to have that everybody wants to have and depending on where you're at you may want environment you may want housing you may want all these different things um it seems to me when I analyze it is that it's going to be very expensive really expensive we almost need two to three times what we're asking so what would what's the position what's your position on uh just spending the funds to solve the problem and then getting more education and maybe by that time we will have a legislature that will at least consider it I'm under no delusion that it will be done in a year but just I'm just trying to get a straight answer because I don't want to put pressure on uh staff to answer questions when you know they got they're going to be looking at their jobs too so since you're not looking at your job and you've been here yeah the you're talking about the contingency fund for one that's onetime money I think Mark had mentioned that that's something that certainly is supposed to be meant for those rainy days those emergencies we've had rainy days and emergencies every year and so I do hesitate on trying to solve a long-term problem with anything that would be one-time money I think also it was mentioned that in the past we've had money coming one time from different sources that allowed us to patch over the these things which only then exacerbates that problem going forward it makes it larger um uh the interest rates cost of living and stuff like that don't slow down another source that we've used in the past the one that is the most awful source for me is the idea that those folks that have been stripped of their rights back in 2011 have the been given the opportunity then to not keep up with the wages and benefits of other employees that have maintained their rights and that's one way that we have worked in collaboration to be able to try and maintain our uh not having to Furlow and lay off and use those kinds of terms um we we can't see other sources the another one that was brought up tonight is all of those special uh fees those have proven to be more regressive in general uh than uh what we would consider the property tax fee to be I do like the idea of a lot of the uh city um uh properties that are owned by um the state of Wisconsin for instance and other types of uh you know organizations that otherwise would be tax exempt uh be able to maintain some of those fees um maybe there's a way to be able to change that modify that version of it um but there that we're talking again about small amounts of money and the real uh structural issue is going to come back very quickly and I think that one of the things that the mayor has done in this current uh proposal is address the extra money that is in that contingency fund and a way to try to slow down the again increasing requirements for fees going forward and I think there's other folks that would be concerned that we might have another referendum coming up once we had a a referendum that got passed I think that's one of the things that we don't want to see happen ever again and in order to be able to make that happen we have to start thinking in a more five-year basis so that we can find funds that create a curve downwards in that long-term structural debt and you're right getting those State AIDS turned around will help with that but it doesn't help with the current issues that we have now so being able to pull together we're more than happy to support any version of a referendum that the mayor and Alders have come up with that again support the idea of maintaining parity and wages with our current employees that we have if you start changing that or deciding that you're going to cut some jobs even when it seems like a few jobs you can't imagine the amount of strife that that causes in departments it it it it it's going to be very difficult for people to maintain their ability to do twice as much work because that's also what's going to have to happen we're going to have to suffer through going through a lot of vacancies going forward just like we have in the past in order to try and maintain current employment and because of that you now are going to have people that are going to not only have to do twice as much work but they're going to have to do it for less money and so that includes people that are going to find other places as you heard tonight too that means that we have employees that are for the first time in a long time finding other opportunities outside of city employment that do better with wages and benefits that's shameful and I think that we need to make sure that we put a stop to a process that patches things over and just to clarify two things right quick one I wanted to ask you about the wages on you know wage parody uh just so we have it correct correct correctly and it's on the record like the city employees like held off like they were going to get a I thought before I ran for office I had talked to somebody that was you know within the unions and they were explaining that certain departments didn't get a raise I mean like 2019 maybe 2018 whatever years was you know 2019 2020 where they just we held off we gave police and then we didn't do the other employees and it's like a demand like you know people are not ask asking for excess just for excess is that they gave up some wages previously or you know increases is that correct that's absolutely correct we certainly have seen I I know the number of $6 million in the uh just in I believe the 2022 budget where we were in a that was the equal the equal of the money of the shortfall between the difference in what the folks that were not represented by unions and those folks that were represented by unions and just recently this year we're we've been able to catch up with and and Achieve parody with all of those other uh groups and we're thankful for that but we just got here after a decade of doing that and now we're talking about potentially making changes so that we would be immediately behind on that again and we have to uh find a way to not use the system that we have now that's been forced upon us Again by the state through uh the the acts that occurred 15 years ago and and find other ways to be able to fund that and at the same time I am excited about the electoral process this fall and I'm very hopeful that we're going to have some significant changes and that we will be able to address some of our long-term issues electorally okay and just so I I want to make this statement but I want you to correct me if I'm wrong that it was the difference is that the police and firefighters they kept their unions and now they put some special things in if we do cutting they cut us um and that's the reason they were able to get their raises and everybody else had to wait wait am I simplifying that that is that that is true as well as uh Madison Metro also has the ability to uh collectively bargain and there are uh a few other organizations that have different rights to be able to collectively bargain um uh the fire department I believe um cannot bargain for wages uh but they can bargain for our uh benefits or for the uh insurance right so there's a lot of different moving Parts in there but essentially they're the ones that are able to be able to uh uh bargain and uh have uh us agree to something under contract in advance knowing that when you're going to set a budget this is the number that you must actually achieve on the other hand for the rest of the employees who lost those rights there is no absolute guarantee that if you don't have the money that you're going to be forced to actually pay us under contract you don't we don't have one so it does have the ability for you to be able to become inequitable and and and not be equal with your pay and that has happened in the past in order in some cases for us to save jobs and so we're now back in that same position again okay thank you so much and then I had a question wanted to move on over to the City properties owned by the city now that solution I haven't delv into I feel like all these are individual uh soltion is this a a question I'm setting up the question if you don't mind they set it up so you can understand making sure that that it's for him as well yeah yeah so we have different buckets that we're all getting to learn like uh you know shared Revenue uh you know salary savings I can finally say it after like four months of study uh and there's a name for something that you're talking about with the city properties owned by the city where we would get more funds but that's something something that's going to whatever that's called that's something that takes a while it's not something that we could just petition tomorrow and we receive it Al there are you talking about Municipal Services payments from the state I said whatever it's called mayor so obv City payments for City properties so I'm I'm unfair I'm sorry did I say that state state payments for City properties is that what you said you talking okay so we don't all of us don't know about that and uh necessarily and granted we have now let me just set this up so there's no there's no issue here um we get a lot of stuff to read we have a lot of videos and when I go through it I go through it pretty intensely so I haven't read everything as it changes in the last five minutes or the last two hours or the last week or whoever had privilege to the information when I get it I read it I process it I ask questions you can see that so with the city the state giving the city payments for properties that the state state is benefiting from and we're taking care of that's increasing those that would take time right yes I don't even know if it's technically legal let's put it that way I I'm just saying that again and this was brought up actually by Alder ver at one of the last meetings uh again uh feeling that when we're talking about whether or not the idea of a what is the most Progressive Way of being able to uh gain this Revenue one of the things that was brought up even though we do believe that special fees are entirely regressive in almost every case the one special case where these special fees that are given to all property owners in the city of Madison would be those properties that are owned by tax exempt individuals who may not have to pay property tax so that if we were to charge higher property tax those folks would in essence not see an increase so in order to find some way for that small amount of uh Revenue which I don't know the the amount it's just again another potential small Source not something that I believe would be again a way of being able to eliminate or reduce the referendum need okay so then when I consider all of that uh if we were to uh disal your arguments about the referendum uh uh of why now it's basically we're out of time there's not a time to fix the problem to go through on an intellectual level to look at every aspect for all of us to get the right information to bring everybody up to speed because uh November's on its way and this problem is is is right now okay thank you so much thank you Elder see you have additional questions Al there uh yes I think I did let me just make sure cuz actually uh they might cleared most oh um if I could just ask uh uh uh uh M soin to just uh talk about I want to ask questions that you mentioned for possibilities and I wanted to just get more information on that uh so the so in your statement you had um you had you had said something about and I you might have finished no actually I'm not if you did finish or not but you were talking about four possibilities that we could uh do as a city to address yes the problem all right what I'd like to do since you like to set things up is I'd like to first set up what are our possibilities under the shared Revenue program and I'd really rely on Dave schmidtii uh to go over this my recollection is that shared Revenue was set up with a legacy coming back to the Progressive Era in Bob lafalot the state collects at that point the income tax later comes the sales tax when Gaylord Nelson becomes governor and the idea is you share that money you don't leave it with the wealthiest communities that can then put that money into infrastructure making for better Community leaving the poor communities poor but you redistribute it so we come up with the shared Revenue formula in the mid 1970s and Dave am I correct the formula itself has not been changed all of the reductions for Madison are based on the formula is that right was the formula changed the formula is frozen so I'm not going to Y all right but I I think you have to ask Dave about the history of the formula because I I can't remember all the details I do know at some point a hold harmless was put in particularly to help Madison so that the DraStic Cuts weren't as great each year now I see four opportunities the reason I'm focusing on shared revenue is because if you compare shared Revenue to the municipal payments if I remember correctly Madison gets 45% of what's in the municipal payments fund so if you were to add $10 million for the state to add 10 million to that fund Madison would get 4 A5 million add 20 million to that fund Madison would get 9 million and so on I don't know how much money the state would have to put into the shared Revenue formula to get Madison another 9 million but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the hundreds of millions of dollars so I guess what I'm suggesting is do what's the easiest lift not that it's easy but fixing the state's inadequate funding of the municipal Services fund is going to be an easier lift than trying to fix shared Revenue second possibility and third possibility are sales taxes more Milwaukee's transit system is funded by a sales tax it's fairly common to have a regional transit system around this country funded by a sales tax Milwaukee now has a sales tax separate from its transit system so that's another possibility and I can't remember in which city document I read this but I seem to recall that in one of the city documents the point was made that it's actually more productive for City to have a revenue from a sales tax than a property tax because when the economy approves improves you get a greater lift from a sales tax than you do from a property tax there's a lot of other things I'd suggest you do I mean you heard all kinds of anecdotes here tonight anecdotes about City salaries and competitive nature of the private sector I don't know what the truth is and I don't think anybody here does but if you're going to hear those kind of arguments I think you've got to go and do an analysis of the base pay uh 10 12 years ago uh for public employees before Act 10 was enacted comparable to the equivalent jobs in the private sector and see where they're at today that's the only way of of doing it you heard somebody speak about his friend who bought a house for $3 $300,000 or something and the property tax impact of the referendum is $15 a month I seem to recall in one of the city documents that the impact of the referendum on a renter is going to be $200 a year math I've seen in terms of a half cent sales tax is that for a household that has a $50,000 year income the impact is $50 a year not 200 I think all that's got to be analyzed but the point is the fear-mongering about Milwaukee and what was demanded of Milwaukee and Milwaukee had to face bankruptcy and all that other stuff has got to be put in context of what you can do to avoid the referendum which is going to be on top of the city's ability to go to the maximum on the levy anyway I don't have the access to the data that I'd like to have but there's $16 million left over that's already been assigned to close the $22 million gap that means the Gap is $6 million now I don't know what was budgeted in 2023 is budget and 2024's budget for investment income I don't know what the projections are for 2024 on investment income compared to reality but the FED as of now and through September has not lowered Prime has not lowered its rates which affects Prime so it's very possible that the city is going to have a $6 million surplus beyond what was budgeted for 2024 $6 million plus $16 million is $22 million you've solved it for one year and I acknowledge that's only for one year but it gives you then all of next year's budget deliberations at the state with a vastly improved governor and a vastly improved legislature and I think that the chance of getting something adopted if a good faith effort is made compared to the damage equitably what's being done to the people of this city in terms of the tax burden is just something that should not be passed up so um if I could ask you then um to just as I asked the other two speakers um uh well let just first on that question with the uh I think it's the municipal uh payment and sales tax you were talking about um again those are not that's not something that we could just do like in the next 30 to 60 days and in other words how long does that typically take to you would need enabling legislation from the state look you get your $16 million you then find another 6 million which might be just one-year funds but it get you through next year and I'm not saying let's put it this way do that and if the state fails to make any of these changes that I think the city should be lobing for yes you will be confronted with the referendum in another year there's no question about it but you can raise that 22 million now what is the legislature got to do or let me ask you let me answer you this way the legislature would have to act on these variations which I believe have to come out of the governor's budget it has to start with the the governor's budget has to be put in there that means talking to the governor before January 1st before he submits his budget and then the battle is engaged to keep it in the budget and and and and make it not too honorous for the city and then there's been statements that a sales tax would not be effective until 2027 and I know what that's based on it's based on Robin voss's position from years ago that if the state authorized an RTA or a city to have a sales tax he would require that there be a public referendum so you then have the legislature act next year there would have to be a referendum in 26 and so you wouldn't have the benefit of that until 27 well has anybody talk to Robin Voss has anybody seen what would happen if Robin Voss was collided with a firm position by Dane County legislators other friends in the legislature and the governor rather than just speculating on what would happen but you're saying that we'd have to have a referendum no matter what no we wouldn't have to have a referendum the referendum was excuse me are you talking about referendum on the sales tax yeah so we'd have to have some type of referendum no you don't have to have a referendum of sales tax the premise is Robin Voss would demand it and be successful in demanding it that's where that comes from okay uh I have one more question let me just find it I wrote it here uh then also uh I want to ask you this last question same question I asked the other two speakers and that is um the question I keep asking and my colleagues know this is why can't we use the Surplus that we uh why can't we use the Surplus that we have whatever amount it is apply to the problem to give us more time to move forward um that's one part of the question second part of the question is when would when do you typically as mayor learn about the Surplus is it is it usually in the middle of May or all right all right in terms of the Surplus my recollection is learning about the Surplus us usually came as part of learning about something else which is the reconciliation of the previous year's finances so in other words there may be a whole lot of things that have to be reconciled uh was it a bad year for snow and streets went a half a million dollars over was it a bad year for fuel and a half a million dollars there it's all part of the re the the the um reconciliation of the overages and the underage in terms of the biggest element that you experienced this last year you're dependent upon when that's reported by the state because the state has the city's this the city's Investments I believe are still principally in the state investment pool so you'd have to have a report from the state and again you to ask these questions to Dave schmidi uh I'm not up to date but my recollection is that usually all this information was combined and comes out sometime late March early April okay and then as far as uh uh the shared Revenue asking you the same questions that I asked the other two speakers on the shared Revenue the the B I don't I'm not calling it the right thing but the 2023 money unexpected money and the potential for unexpected money in 2024 that's different from all right other my understanding of what happened with shared revenue is the state increased by a significant amount of money what was available in in the shared Revenue pool to be divided among all the municipalities in the state that because of the formula it had a minimal impact on Madison because that formula is population poverty and the tax base and Madison continues to have a growing tax base that outstrips any factor for poverty that should be growing in the city I'm sorry mayor I was talking about and I don't know what the name of it is and maybe the mayor can help me mayor s you can help me uh figure out what that name is but it's the 22 million that we had so we had a $27 million deficit and then in the newspaper at some point we all learned the aler is talking about the use of the general fund balance oh yes the general fund balance thank you there's so many I mean have we have so much going on in finance it's amazing um so I asked the other two um speakers about the use of the fund balance why can't we just take the 22 million applied against the 22 million or if it's not quite 22 million let's say it gets down to 16 million why can't we just take the money from our rainy day fund well you fund Bal 16 million the 16 million in effect is legitimate as a one-time expenditure because you're not taking it out of the rainy day fund but that is most likely only a one to twoe source of additional income because interest rates are probably going to go down over the next 15 months starting in September so why couldn't we just take that money and delay this decision until um that's what well that's what I'm saying is you take that 16 million you find other ways of finding 6 million more you delay the decision on the referendum and I think in terms of leadership in terms of will the benefits of waiting a year to try and use any of those four opportunities with the state is worthwhile compared to the owner's burden of the referendum being passed and fin finally in your opinion would that and ultimately I will ask um uh uh director schmidi this question but in your and I have not asked him this question yet um but in your opinion would that affect our AAA Bond rating is it something that we could legally do I mean what's the negative to using the money that we weren't expecting when we were at the going to address you do it for one year there's not going to be any downside there won't be any downside for one year especially it's not fiscally irresponsible if you had to go to the if you had to go to the rainy day fund I would describe it as being irresponsible but on a ledger of what's been done over the last five years it fits in with everything else and so for one more year doing it given the upside of the reward of not imposing that additional 22 million on the taxpayers on the renters on the homeowners would make it worthwhile and haven't we used the rainy day fund uh in the past few years every single year I can't speak to that I just recall it being done a couple of times I don't know how often it was done thank you thank you aler no other alers in the queue with questions so that will conclude public comment and we'll move on on item 68 which is legistar moved in seconded to refer to the 820 common council meeting common Council special meeting special meeting uh moved and seconded is there discussion on referral seeing none is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor of referral seeing no objection we'll record that unanimous vote and that takes us to item 69 which is legis 8 45722 quarter report from Chief Shawn Barnes on item 69 Elder president figuro Co move to accept maybe second moved and seconded to accept the report are there questions of Staff seeing none is there discussion seeing none is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor of accepting item 69 seeing no objection we'll record that unanimous vote it will take us to the end of our agenda are there any additional introductions from the floor seeing none are their announcements seeing none oh Al there Ginder Rajan there are Chiefs and crackers in the back please take them I don't want to take them home thank you anybody would like to take food home please do seeing no additional announcements Alder Knox it is your turn Alder Knox I would happily move for adjournment second moved and seconded to adjourn is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor of adjournment seeing no objection we are adjourned for